Maelstrom808 wrote:As are the majority of the Tyranid complaints. They can still compete (as can Chaos), but GW has done nothing but poo on them since the release of the codex.
Curse my signature for not being big enough to hold more than two full quotes.
Maelstrom808 wrote:While I generally agree with the rest of what you said, don't try and make it like Tyranid players are the worst at this. You'd get the same reactions out of any other armie's players if they had the same thing happen.
I hate to say it: but you really don't. There's complaints from the Chaos players, but you have to be blind to not know that those are justified.
As are the majority of the Tyranid complaints. They can still compete (as can Chaos), but GW has done nothing but poo on them since the release of the codex.
Yes and no. The majority of the Tyranid complaints can be boiled down to "They changed our playstyle, nerfed Carnifexes(which we all had tons of) and we're missing models from the army book!".
Changed playstyle? That's not really something to complain about.
Nerfed Carnifexes was going to happen. There was no chance they would be left the same.
Missing models is a valid complaint.
Put it down to dealing with people. You've given them some information, about something they care about, but not enough. It's understandable that you can't give them more without outing sources and such, but with what was given it indicates changes that were unexpected, and in several cases, a downgrade. It wouldn't be so bad if there were more information to put it all in perspective, but there isn't. Unfortunately a lot of the people posting have (often) a significant amount of time, money, and effort invested in the models, the fluff, and the hobby, and are therefor a bit more prone to reaction to tidbits of information in a vacuum. WBB going to 5+++ sounds bad, and even with the additional reroll from other sources, it sounds worse than current. There may or may not be other mitigating factors included, but since we can't currently know about them, the only information, the change to 5+++ from 4+++, sounds really bad.
People don't like change too much, but can deal with it well enough so long as there is either a gradual change, or the change can be well and truly understood and integrated, it'll be accepted more fully over time. Unfortunately, the nature of putting out rumors (without all the information because you don't have it all, don't have the most current form of whats coming, or need to protect your sources) is more akin, and here I quote dogbert, to "A paradigm shifting without a clutch." It's going to ruffle feathers. Unfortunately it being the internet, a pained look or an uneasy feeling turns into a rant about the sky falling. It's just people trying to deal with change in their own way.
Maelstrom808 wrote:While I generally agree with the rest of what you said, don't try and make it like Tyranid players are the worst at this. You'd get the same reactions out of any other armie's players if they had the same thing happen.
I hate to say it: but you really don't. There's complaints from the Chaos players, but you have to be blind to not know that those are justified.
Are you talking about how they nerfed the Chaos Legions feel of the CSM codex from '03(3... 3.5 I've heard it called)? If that's the case then yes they did gut the heart and soul out of that one in the newest book.
Much of the fluff was disregarded in the current codex, making it to where it's mostly the Black Legion/Red Corsairs codex. It also shelved many models as they can no longer be used except in Apocalypse games.
On the other hand, the current codex is easier to understand and use, but I still prefer the older one simply from a fluff standpoint... and it allowed for more diversity from one Chaos army to the next.
As far as the Necrons go, it's the very lack of diversity in the model range that has kept me from playing/collecting them.
Kind of like the Webway portal that DE have... Only mobile and reentrant.
Give it 14 on the armor scale and allow 'crons within say 6" or 12" of one of them have the ability to teleport to another one on the field, or through a monolith.
If you add a gun on it, then I'd be all over that thing.
Kanluwen wrote:Yes and no. The majority of the Tyranid complaints can be boiled down to "They changed our playstyle, nerfed Carnifexes(which we all had tons of) and we're missing models from the army book!".
Changed playstyle? That's not really something to complain about.
Nerfed Carnifexes was going to happen. There was no chance they would be left the same.
Missing models is a valid complaint.
I disagree. You can summarize the majority of Tyranid player's constructive criticism on various old rumor, battle reports, tactic, and army list threads as follows:
We don't have enough cheap ranged anti-tank options in our codex - Codex
Blowing up transports in CC is in most cases a lose-lose situation - 5th edition
Combat resolution and excessive fearless wounds - 5th Edition
TMC are more expensive and less survivable that thier vehicle counter-parts - Codex/5th Edition
Lack of multi-wound shinanigans in a codex full of multi-wound units - Codex
Where's the Tervigon/Parosite/Prime? - Product Availablilty
Metal Boxes immune to SITW and IC can't jump in a Spod Tyranid FAQ Rulings - FAQ
The first three complaints are ones that my fellow necron players share at home in regards to their current codex (though instead of fearless wounds it would be the leadership modifiers). Based on these rumors:
11) In general Necrons have a lot more long ranged fire support. There is also a new weapon type called Tesla weapons. These weapons, on a roll of '6' to hit automatically cause two more hits. The biggest version of the Tesla weapons has a chance of hitting all other units close to the target; both friend and foe. One of the new vehicles carries the doomsday cannon: 72" S9 AP1 Heavy 1 large blast. BS4.
Matt Ward seams to be addressing the first two concerns for them. That alone should be a reason to be hopefull. I mean look what he did for Grey Knights: 1) Strength 8 Auto Cannons for Dreads, Strength 7 Psycannons distributed through numerous unit selections, Strength 7 Assault Cannons for Razor Backs...and indirectly, DH Vehicles have a very reliable chance of ignoring stunned and shaken results...which means their cheap anti-tank weapons can keep shooting. No, I expect good things ruleswise for the Necron Codex.
To the people complaining about transports and jump infantry...
I know nothing about the new book but rumors, but let me tell you something:
Forget everything you know about Necrons.
Take that sorry excuse for a codex-pamphlete and eradicate it from your memory.
Expect something completely new and fresh, unbiased and built from the ground.
Dark Eldar are my precedent. Necrons will still be tough robots, but that's most likely all the new book will have in common with the old one.
And I'm really wondering how Necrons are Tomb Kings in Space. Because of slight egyptian iconography and metal skeletons?
Thousand Sons and Eldar are Tomb Kings in Space too then?
And I'm really wondering how Necrons are Tomb Kings in Space. Because of slight egyptian iconography and metal skeletons?
Uh, yeah, it's a skeleton army rising from the dead with Egyptian themed iconography. I really had to work hard to restrain myself from beginning this post with the word, "d'uh!" Seriously, this one is just too obvious.
No, Eldar are High Elves in space. Besides, most of their background is an unusual pastiche of eastern martial arts ideas and more traditional Celtic mythology about elves which strangely, works quite well. And the Yin-Yang symbol is (obviously) not Egyptian either.
No, Thousand Sons are not a skeleton army. So not quite as literally anyway in the same way as Necrons.
Dark Eldar are my precedent. Necrons will still be tough robots, but that's most likely all the new book will have in common with the old one.
I wouldn't say that Brass. Thousand Sons are a pretty good analogue for the 'undead'.
There's Sorcerers who are the 'lynchpin' of a force consisting of souls trapped within their armor.
They're not skeletons or zombies in the traditional sense, but more like a Revenant I guess.
But still. I'm going to be watching this evolution of the Necrons.
This is all assuming that these rumours are true, of course. They're radically different to most other rumours I've seen, which could be a vote for or against their truthfulness. Won't know till it happens, I guess, but I'm hoping the rumours that have been kicking around these last couple of months are true compared to these.
I disagree. You can summarize the majority of Tyranid player's constructive criticism on various old rumor, battle reports, tactic, and army list threads as follows:
We don't have enough cheap ranged anti-tank options in our codex - Codex
Blowing up transports in CC is in most cases a lose-lose situation - 5th edition
Combat resolution and excessive fearless wounds - 5th Edition
TMC are more expensive and less survivable that thier vehicle counter-parts - Codex/5th Edition
Lack of multi-wound shinanigans in a codex full of multi-wound units - Codex
Where's the Tervigon/Parosite/Prime? - Product Availablilty
Metal Boxes immune to SITW and IC can't jump in a Spod Tyranid FAQ Rulings - FAQ
That was well said and laid out. To take that a step further, that list contains 7 big ticket items. Of which, 5 were heavily influenced/ignored by Cruddance---with a possibility of the other two having influence (His input on what players would demand model wise and his input on the FAQ---both unknown but likely).
Maelstrom808 wrote:While I generally agree with the rest of what you said, don't try and make it like Tyranid players are the worst at this. You'd get the same reactions out of any other armie's players if they had the same thing happen.
I hate to say it: but you really don't. There's complaints from the Chaos players, but you have to be blind to not know that those are justified.
As are the majority of the Tyranid complaints. They can still compete (as can Chaos), but GW has done nothing but poo on them since the release of the codex.
Yes and no. The majority of the Tyranid complaints can be boiled down to "They changed our playstyle, nerfed Carnifexes(which we all had tons of) and we're missing models from the army book!".
Changed playstyle? That's not really something to complain about.
Nerfed Carnifexes was going to happen. There was no chance they would be left the same.
Missing models is a valid complaint.
If that's all you see from Nid complaints, then no wonder you have the opinion you do. As someone else said, it's OT though so we can agree to disagree for now. I will point out one thing though that is relevent to the thread: Changing a playstyle is absolutely something to complain about. I buy into an army because of how they look/cool fluff, but more so because of how they play. Spending a $1000+ on an army and then having someone completely change the fluff and playstyle (which were the reasons you bought into it) is definately something to complain about. GW needs to hold a little more consistancy and overwatch on their writers from one codex update to another. If things change because of a core rules update that's one thing, but it should be the burden of the writers to ensure that when an update to the codex comes, they maintain the style and feel of an army first and foremost while making it viable within the confines of the the latest rule edition.
(btw: For the record, I personally don't think Nids playstyle changed all that much other than essentially one net list becoming unviable)
Korraz wrote:To the people complaining about transports and jump infantry...
I know nothing about the new book but rumors, but let me tell you something:
Forget everything you know about Necrons.
Take that sorry excuse for a codex-pamphlete and eradicate it from your memory.
Expect something completely new and fresh, unbiased and built from the ground.
Dark Eldar are my precedent. Necrons will still be tough robots, but that's most likely all the new book will have in common with the old one.
If that ends up being the case, I'll most likely have 3700 points of Necrons for sale for anyone interested. "Tough Robots" seem to be all that non-Necron players see when they look at the army.
Kroothawk wrote:Has Matt Ward ever written an entirely broken set of rules?
Yes, Daemons of Chaos army book. Singlehandedly ended fair competitive play in 7th edition.
Fixed with 8th edition rules, whose magic makes fair competitive play nearly impossible with all other armies as well.
Well, to start with that's Fantasy, this is 40k. If you want to go and complain about Matt Wards efforts in WHFB, go and discuss it in said forum, but this is 40k Background.
You asked "Has Matt Ward ever written an entirely broken set of rules?" and I correctly answered yes.
If you had asked: "Has Matt Ward ever since 1st May 2011 written an entirely broken non-Imperial Codex?", I would have answered no.
If you had asked "Has Matt Ward deserved this hate for any non-Imperial Codex written since the 1st May 2011?", I would have answered no.
But you didn't.
BTW:
Codex Grey Knights wrote:(...) the Grey Knights first act is to turn their blades upon the surviving Sisters of Battle. The innocent blood thus spilled is then mixed with blessed oil and used to anoint the Grey Knight's armour and weapons.
How would you call that: "Free their comrades unexpectedly of the burden of life and adorning their armours with their blood"? Guess they remembered the Blood Angels/Necron incident (another Mat Ward highlight) and wanted a bro fist from Khorne Berserkers
Codex Grey Knights wrote:(...) the Grey Knights first act is to turn their blades upon the surviving Sisters of Battle. The innocent blood thus spilled is then mixed with blessed oil and used to anoint the Grey Knight's armour and weapons.
How would you call that: "Free their comrades unexpectedly of the burden of life and adorning their armours with their blood"? Guess they remembered the Blood Angels/Necron incident (another Mat Ward highlight) and wanted a bro fist from Khorne Berserkers
i hate to admit it, but i have to agree with most people on this. wards fluff is just meh. i was ok with blood angels fluff but that was only cuz most of what i remember was re-telling old codex info and bl books (iv re-read the books alot but the codex has been about 6 months since i looked through the fluff, so i might be wrong). the grey knights ones though... ugh. so fluff for necrons has a 50-50 chance of being ok or bad, but not good.
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wyomingfox wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:BTW:
Codex Grey Knights wrote:(...) the Grey Knights first act is to turn their blades upon the surviving Sisters of Battle. The innocent blood thus spilled is then mixed with blessed oil and used to anoint the Grey Knight's armour and weapons.
How would you call that: "Free their comrades unexpectedly of the burden of life and adorning their armours with their blood"? Guess they remembered the Blood Angels/Necron incident (another Mat Ward highlight) and wanted a bro fist from Khorne Berserkers
That...is seriously messed up
that was my reaction. also, pretty much proving why i even said "how can there be a sisters codex now?"
They could be the necron equivilent of land raiders (and be very effective) or they could be Armour 9, 6 ' max move unarmed skiffs with a troop capacity of 1
I love my Necrons, but if this means I have to kiss my Pariahs goodbye (spent about $100 on them...) then that will make me sad. I liked having my pariahs... that and I spent a while painting them >.> New units though I like. Maybe we will get all the C'tan? Void Dragon themed Necron army for the win. Special ability lets it control enemy vehicles > Oh the possibilities. Just gave myself a Land Raider/ battlesuit/ dreadknight conversion Idea...
I hope the walker vehicle resembles the Hunter Killer Tank from The Terminator. And I'm still hoping that We'll Be Back isn't done away with. I loved that rule, for it saved my ass many times in the past...
They could be the necron equivilent of land raiders (and be very effective) or they could be Armour 9, 6 ' max move unarmed skiffs with a troop capacity of 1
We will see
they could be de ravagers? open top transports, im guessing all of them are skimmers. haha, a giant disc
Savis wrote:I really don't understand why people are so scared of change.
When you've played an army (or indeed, any game) long time and are comfortable with it, any change feels scary. I am waiting the next Tau codex with mixture of eagerness and horror - there will be changes, some probably rather big ones, and they might be hard to swallow.
What people seem afraid of is that Necrons will become just another generic Mech army if they get transports. As I see it, these rumours are too vague to get too upset - so far. I don't think anyone disagrees that Necrons need broader unit selection. Most people will probably also agree that Phase out and WBB need some addressing. So far so good, right? And as far as the fluff goes, even the worst Ward fluff imaginable would be huge improvment over the current Necron fluff.
I've played Necrons since their release back in 1997 in WD.
I didn't like what they did to them for 3rd ed in WD and the change from 3rd ed - Codex I was relieved to see that they continued to evolve as a raiding force.
4th ed came, then 5th and Necrons became the whipping boys of 5th (or so many claimed).
The changes from what I see may be necessary, but it feels like they are losing some of their character (or gaining too much). I chose the 'Crons for their character above what they did on the field and I for one am not liking what they intend to do (according to the rumors anyway).
Necrons going Mech is a bit of a Marmite idea IMO. Some will love it, some will hate it. If it's done right according to what we're used to (small vehicles, fast and obscenely heavily armed for their size) this will be magnificent. The idea of the vehicle not actually carrying the squad but acting as a "portal on wheels" is awesome.
I look forward to this with some fear and excitement.
Does anyone else have any idea on if the current models will be valid? Like the Warriors/Destroyers/Scarabs? If they are, I will be re-doing my army as I found a FLGS that is having a massive sale on some of the 40k stuff that never sells - I.E Necrons, Sisters and Eldar.
Puscifer wrote:Does anyone else have any idea on if the current models will be valid? Like the Warriors/Destroyers/Scarabs? If they are, I will be re-doing my army as I found a FLGS that is having a massive sale on some of the 40k stuff that never sells - I.E Necrons, Sisters and Eldar.
GW rarely makes things completely unusable. At worst you'll end up with a "Looted Wagon" kind of situation, where your old model will still be represented in the army, just used as something somewhat different.
Ok, I haven't read this whole thread but all I can say is that even with the change to WBB (or whatever it's called now) they're still going to be pansies in CC unless they have some crazy rules that help them out with that.
Rather I should say, the change to WBB does not help them with their current Achilles heel.
Also, flayed ones are Elites now so I don't know why everyone is "bummed" about that and why it was needing to be pointed out as if it's a new thing.
Immortals as troops will of course eclipse warriors but they'll be more expensive so you can't field as many (just like it is now).
Everyone griping about fielding "squads of c'tan", did you see that they're only units of 1 and that you probably can only take 1 per army anyway but either way you'd only get to take 3 max in a standard game and I'm SURE there's other elites that will compete for their spot.
I agree on the transport bit though, if true, a little bummed and just a bit "too much like everything else". All told though, if these are true then I'm pleased with what I'm hearing and looking forward to the release.
Oh, as for pariahs "not being a unit choice", perhaps they're an upgrade to certain squads or a model you can add as a bonus. They just can't "disappear" from the army though.
Pacific wrote:What surprises me most, perhaps more than anything else, is that we have got to page 11 of this thread and no-one has noticed the obvious.
That GW has basically copied an 80's cartoon (Thundercats) for the naming of it's new 'ever living' rule
I think part of the problem with all this is that I, and I suspect many of you, have an idea in my head of what Necrons -should- be.
Ancient. Implacable. Technology that bends physics over a table; teleporting, phasing through matter/armor/force fields, time manipulation. Slow in combat (by default; Wraiths should be fast, Flayed Ones not too slow), but resilient enough that it's a struggle to put them down before they get to strike. Slow to move (again, by default; the troops not specifically designed to be fast, and their vehicles) when moving manually, and no transports to hop into to cruise around to fix that, but instead being able to teleport at times. Difficult to hurt, and difficult to keep down, with high toughness, good saves, and rules like WBB and Living Metal. They should make a mockery of the technology of the lesser races, everything from Living Metal to Disruption Fields and Gauss to Warscythes. C'Tan (or their vessels/avatars/heralds/etc) should be ridiculously difficult to kill, and murder just about anything in close combat, but again be slow and implacable, making an area of the battlefield around them just too dangerous to be in; you should be able to run from them if you're paying attention and moving right, but you should also almost -have- to run from them. No psychic powers, and, given their ancient enmity with the Old Ones and their minions, having several ways to mess with psychers.
The problem is that our idea of what Necrons -should- be doesn't necessarily mesh with what GW thinks they should be. Not terribly surprising, given the lack of a ton of source material we have to work with, but still disappointing. Like playing the demo of a video game, liking it, buying the real version, and finding that after the first couple levels the gameplay changes drastically; the game isn't 'wrong', it just isn't quite what we were expecting or necessarily wanted.
I love the phasing thing. I love the teleportation. I love the C'Tan. I like the way WBB works now (more or less). I like that I don't get metal boxes to ride around in, but that I have alternatives.
Might GW change all that? Sure. Are they allowed to? Absolutely. Doesn't mean it's what I'm looking for, and while it may be great for people just getting into Necrons, since they didn't play that video game demo and didn't have preconceptions of what things 'should' be like, the problem is that if you change something like this too drastically from how it was, you alienate the people who got into it for the way it was. Like a band changing music styles; it's their prerogative, but it may not sit well with their already established fans.
Of course, we haven't seen more than a scrap of how things are going to be, or even if these rumors are accurate. This is all just in response to the way things seem to be pointing.
We'll see.
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Kevin949 wrote:Immortals as troops will of course eclipse warriors but they'll be more expensive so you can't field as many (just like it is now).
Craziness! It's like if you had some army where both Marines in Power Armor and Terminators were Troops choices!
I've been lurking and following these Necron threads. I'm genuinely very interested in a lot of units being redone in plastic, and from the sounds of the rumours, more variance in what you can run in competitive games
I can understand why people are not happy with the idea of transports and other large scale changes going on. I believe that considering how little fluff there is currently, we haven't had much other than the 3rd ed codex, and it has just enough to set a base back story, so people over time have filled in all the gaps themselves, and have their own idea of what Necron's are or should be.
Considering the age of the current codex, I am expecting large changes. Some people are going to hate this, as it destroys their idea of what Necrons should be.
I'm preparing myself for this change and will do my best to be receptive of it, the fluff will no doubt get an injection of over the top, but I'm looking forward to rules written to work with the current edition battle rule book.
EDIT; I think Nightbringers Chosen has the same idea as me, the lack of existing fluff and backround leads to people filling the gap with their own conceptions.
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:I think part of the problem with all this is that I, and I suspect many of you, have an idea in my head of what Necrons -should- be.
Ancient. Implacable. Technology that bends physics over a table; teleporting, phasing through matter/armor/force fields, time manipulation. Slow in combat (by default; Wraiths should be fast, Flayed Ones not too slow), but resilient enough that it's a struggle to put them down before they get to strike. Slow to move (again, by default; the troops not specifically designed to be fast, and their vehicles) when moving manually, and no transports to hop into to cruise around to fix that, but instead being able to teleport at times. Difficult to hurt, and difficult to keep down, with high toughness, good saves, and rules like WBB and Living Metal. They should make a mockery of the technology of the lesser races, everything from Living Metal to Disruption Fields and Gauss to Warscythes. C'Tan (or their vessels/avatars/heralds/etc) should be ridiculously difficult to kill, and murder just about anything in close combat, but again be slow and implacable, making an area of the battlefield around them just too dangerous to be in; you should be able to run from them if you're paying attention and moving right, but you should also almost -have- to run from them. No psychic powers, and, given their ancient enmity with the Old Ones and their minions, having several ways to mess with psychers.
The problem is that our idea of what Necrons -should- be doesn't necessarily mesh with what GW thinks they should be. Not terribly surprising, given the lack of a ton of source material we have to work with, but still disappointing. Like playing the demo of a video game, liking it, buying the real version, and finding that after the first couple levels the gameplay changes drastically; the game isn't 'wrong', it just isn't quite what we were expecting or necessarily wanted.
I love the phasing thing. I love the teleportation. I love the C'Tan. I like the way WBB works now (more or less). I like that I don't get metal boxes to ride around in, but that I have alternatives.
Might GW change all that? Sure. Are they allowed to? Absolutely. Doesn't mean it's what I'm looking for, and while it may be great for people just getting into Necrons, since they didn't play that video game demo and didn't have preconceptions of what things 'should' be like, the problem is that if you change something like this too drastically from how it was, you alienate the people who got into it for the way it was. Like a band changing music styles; it's their prerogative, but it may not sit well with their already established fans.
Of course, we haven't seen more than a scrap of how things are going to be, or even if these rumors are accurate. This is all just in response to the way things seem to be pointing.
We'll see.
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Kevin949 wrote:Immortals as troops will of course eclipse warriors but they'll be more expensive so you can't field as many (just like it is now).
Craziness! It's like if you had some army where both Marines in Power Armor and Terminators were Troops choices!
...oh, wait...
Sectiplave wrote:I've been lurking and following these Necron threads. I'm genuinely very interested in a lot of units being redone in plastic, and from the sounds of the rumours, more variance in what you can run in competitive games
I can understand why people are not happy with the idea of transports and other large scale changes going on. I believe that considering how little fluff there is currently, we haven't had much other than the 3rd ed codex, and it has just enough to set a base back story, so people over time have filled in all the gaps themselves, and have their own idea of what Necron's are or should be.
Considering the age of the current codex, I am expecting large changes. Some people are going to hate this, as it destroys their idea of what Necrons should be.
I'm preparing myself for this change and will do my best to be receptive of it, the fluff will no doubt get an injection of over the top, but I'm looking forward to rules written to work with the current edition battle rule book.
EDIT; I think Nightbringers Chosen has the same idea as me, the lack of existing fluff and backround leads to people filling the gap with their own conceptions.
I don't like the idea of getting much in the way of traditional metal boxes, but the rest doesn't sound too bad to me, especially the Destroyers as Jump Infantry.
Aduro wrote:I don't like the idea of getting much in the way of traditional metal boxes, but the rest doesn't sound too bad to me, especially the Destroyers as Jump Infantry.
I love those jump Necrons. Very beetle like wings/packs. Seems... fitting.
I don't know what all the fuss is about transports. It was a natural evolution for the Necrons since GW refuses to right good rules for Deep Strike and alternate forms of deployment (with the exception of DoA).
Without transports Necrons would be forced to rely on other forms of movement/faster units to combat the increased mobility of every other army in the game, which is basically their problem right now.
I would have loved to see Necron Pylons instead of normal transports, something that would Deep Strike but otherwise be Immobile and then be able to teleport other Necrons to it like a Monolith does. Have Warriors buy them as a "dedicated transport" but then allow any unit to benefit from them. Gives you a solid reason to field multiple Warrior units even with Immortals as Troops.
But yeah, more different ways to get around rather than riding in metal boxes.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Is it too early to start taking bets on what prefix word Ward's gonna use for every weapon in the book, or is 'Gauss' too obvious?
Will their new walker (on an oval base) get Gauss Fists?
My bets are on Necro
Necrofists, Necroscythe,Necro-orb, Necro Missile, Necro riffles, Necro bullets,Necrostaff, Necro sword
I still think nothing I could come up with can beat the Bloodstrike Missile though
Nemesis Doomfist beats all. It actually has two uber words in it, Nemesis and Doom. Only way to do better would be to add something for an upgraded version, like Empowered Nemesis Doomfist or Wrathful Nemesis Doomfist.
I'm betting Necrogauss -
Necrogauss Rifle,
Necrogauss Blaster,
Necrogauss Skincream (tired of flaky skin - replace it with new Necrogauss - guarateed never to have flaky skin {or indeed skin!} for all eternity!)
and of course :Necrogaussdoomfists
I hope they don't get transports. I don't want another mech MEQ army. I got into necrons because they didn't have tanks. I wanted a phalanx...
Phototoxin wrote:
I hope they don't get transports. I don't want another mech MEQ army. I got into necrons because they didn't have tanks. I wanted a phalanx...
No other MEQ army has fast open-topped skimmers, so its really not going to be the same regardless.
And even with transport vehicles, that doesn't necessarily mean you won't be able to play a walking phalanx. Most codexes have several competitive builds these days and its entirely possible that one of the builds that works won't utilize the new-fangled transport vehicles.
Asuron wrote:I still think nothing I could come up with can beat the Bloodstrike Missile though
Nemesis Doomfist beats all. It actually has two uber words in it, Nemesis and Doom.
When I first heard about the Nemesis Doomfist, I was really hoping that the Bloodstrike Missiles on the Grey Knight Chibi-Hawk would be 'Nemesis Doomstrike Missiles'. Sadly that wasn't to be...
Maybe they'll be a whole range of names used for special wargear and weapons in keeping with Gauss and Tesla
Minkowski Mines? - they blow up again, and again, and... Riemannian Reaper? - awesome CC weapon that curves space round the victim to squish them...
Venn's Vortex? - Place a small blast template and roll for scatter, then place a second directly over where it lands. Roll for scatter again and see what lies under where the templates overlap. Any (non-vehicle) model is removed from play...
Necron uber-advanced-tech: borrowing from M2 Terran mathematicians since 002M3!!!
I don't see why Necrons need a transport (other than the lith). The only reason I can see why an army needs a transport is to add some protection to the troops as they roll in to assault the enemy. I've only played four 40k games so far with my crons but I just don't see me intentionally trying to assault anyone. And being in a transport (closed) just makes you an easier target if it's a chimera or rhino equivalent. Open topped might help a little for shooting but still you're awfully susceptible to taking damage when the transports blown to pieces. I'm sticking with my liths for transportation. Unless it's a really cool model and costs nothing to field....
Transports basically enable you to move your army to capture objectives a little more safely. Especially with all the high S weapons out there, a foot slogging army can be very difficult to win with, especially when they are as slow as 'crons.
Actually, that makes some sense. If you try to think in the twisted paranoid mindset of the Imperium, not having a counter to the Space Marines (Who do, after all, have a large history of going over to the Enemy) makes sense. There's just not enough Custodes, and they're needed to guard the Emperor, so Sisters make a lot of sense as the go-to if a Chapter needs to be 'punished.' Inquisitor Bob can't use another Chapter unless there's clear signs of Chaos or risk the 'infection' spreading (especially if the 'infection' is a chapter of Space Marines that just wants to do things their own way) as the Space Marines are too likely to side with their brothers... But the Sisters are likely a lot less questioning.
Now, it's not going to be clean. I'd figure you'd want a minimum of a 10-1 ratio of Sisters to Space Marines to take out a group of Space Marines in a fortified position, but that's better than a 1,000-1 you'd probably want for Guard...
I kind of wish they'd lose some of the excesses of the Witch Hunters release. I liked the idea that as of the Chapter Approved list they were actually one of the more practical-looking armies in some ways... C:WH added a lot of flaming backpacks and other weirdness.
Praxiss wrote:Transports basically enable you to move your army to capture objectives a little more safely. Especially with all the high S weapons out there, a foot slogging army can be very difficult to win with, especially when they are as slow as 'crons.
I see your point about objective capturing. However I disagree with you on necrons being slow. I think they're quite fast, actually. Only a couple of units are slow - ctan, pariah and tomb spiders. Everyone else can either VoD or be transported by deep striking liths. Kind of makes us double fast. Most people are probably thinking about skimmers and fast vehicles. Stuff just magically moving around the table must throw a monkey wrench in to a competitors battle plan.
I know this is a little off topic but...how do you use pariahs? I'm leery of them due to the lack of the necron rule - which is funny since I own 4 anyway. I like everything else about them (except for the cost, A and I).
Puscifer wrote:Does anyone else have any idea on if the current models will be valid? Like the Warriors/Destroyers/Scarabs? If they are, I will be re-doing my army as I found a FLGS that is having a massive sale on some of the 40k stuff that never sells - I.E Necrons, Sisters and Eldar.
GW rarely makes things completely unusable. At worst you'll end up with a "Looted Wagon" kind of situation, where your old model will still be represented in the army, just used as something somewhat different.
Sisters and Necrons are both getting re-released soon. Eldar had some models done last summer, but for what ever reason it doesn't look like they are getting a release any time soon. Maybe after 6th? Maybe your flgs guy knows this and is selling his old stock?
Balance wrote:
Ascalam wrote:special rule:
Favourite enemy: Marines
Actually, that makes some sense. If you try to think in the twisted paranoid mindset of the Imperium, not having a counter to the Space Marines (Who do, after all, have a large history of going over to the Enemy) makes sense. There's just not enough Custodes, and they're needed to guard the Emperor, so Sisters make a lot of sense as the go-to if a Chapter needs to be 'punished.' Inquisitor Bob can't use another Chapter unless there's clear signs of Chaos or risk the 'infection' spreading (especially if the 'infection' is a chapter of Space Marines that just wants to do things their own way) as the Space Marines are too likely to side with their brothers... But the Sisters are likely a lot less questioning.
Now, it's not going to be clean. I'd figure you'd want a minimum of a 10-1 ratio of Sisters to Space Marines to take out a group of Space Marines in a fortified position, but that's better than a 1,000-1 you'd probably want for Guard...
I kind of wish they'd lose some of the excesses of the Witch Hunters release. I liked the idea that as of the Chapter Approved list they were actually one of the more practical-looking armies in some ways... C:WH added a lot of flaming backpacks and other weirdness.
Read the history in Codex: Space wolves. It talks about sisters making the mistake of fighting space marines. (Granted there are ALOT more space wolves then most normal chapters have, people wise.)
Praxiss wrote:Transports basically enable you to move your army to capture objectives a little more safely. Especially with all the high S weapons out there, a foot slogging army can be very difficult to win with, especially when they are as slow as 'crons.
I see your point about objective capturing. However I disagree with you on necrons being slow. I think they're quite fast, actually. Only a couple of units are slow - ctan, pariah and tomb spiders. Everyone else can either VoD or be transported by deep striking liths. Kind of makes us double fast. Most people are probably thinking about skimmers and fast vehicles. Stuff just magically moving around the table must throw a monkey wrench in to a competitors battle plan.
Good point. I dont tend to use VOD simply becuase my luck with scatter dice is notoriously bad, and i only have one 'Lith so can't pop stuff aroudn as much as i probably should.
Praxiss wrote:Transports basically enable you to move your army to capture objectives a little more safely. Especially with all the high S weapons out there, a foot slogging army can be very difficult to win with, especially when they are as slow as 'crons.
I see your point about objective capturing. However I disagree with you on necrons being slow. I think they're quite fast, actually. Only a couple of units are slow - ctan, pariah and tomb spiders. Everyone else can either VoD or be transported by deep striking liths. Kind of makes us double fast. Most people are probably thinking about skimmers and fast vehicles. Stuff just magically moving around the table must throw a monkey wrench in to a competitors battle plan.
The thing is that if you do play Warhammer 40k game, either friendly or tournament environment, for a while, you would get the idea how unsafe it could be to DS a unit into the midth of fighting without any enhancement like locator beacon or droppod rule, especially in the case of holding/contesting objectives. In the 5th edition environment, an army like necron without transport could be slaughtered: either with a ton of firepower when you are moving along on foot or mishap to death...
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Praxiss wrote: I dont tend to use VOD simply becuase my luck with scatter dice is notoriously bad, and i only have one 'Lith so can't pop stuff aroudn as much as i probably should.
Especially that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
yakface wrote:
3) We'll be Back is no longer called that and it is NOT Feel No Pain. Basically it is a 5+ bonus save similar to Feel No Pain, but doesn't get cancelled out by double strength, AP1/2, etc. In addition, this save is made at the END of the phase after morale tests are taken. If the unit is wiped out or is falling back at the end of the phase, then the save cannot be used. So as an opponent, if you manage to wipe the unit out or make them fall back, then you prevent any Necrons from getting back up...unless the unit has something called the 'ever-living' rule, in which case it gets to attempt this save even if the unit is wiped out.
So with that, Can I assume that the fearless rule for "necron" models is gone also? "If the unit is wiped out or is falling back at the end of the phase"
So with that, Can I assume that the fearless rule for "necron" models is gone also? "If the unit is wiped out or is falling back at the end of the phase"
I know this is a little off topic but...how do you use pariahs? I'm leery of them due to the lack of the necron rule - which is funny since I own 4 anyway. I like everything else about them (except for the cost, A and I).
Attempt to get their 12" bubble within the enemy + either the deceiver, lord with gaze of flame, or flayed ones, or all of the above.
Good distraction unit to sort of waste (i,e Area denial (OMG can't send any TEQ or MEQ over there, warscythes'll get me!), as people don't see them often enough to know their potential, so they fear them when reading their rules.
They may equally as likely go, wow they are tough, my terminators can deal with them. lol. has happened to me.
Also not to forget they have the same weapon shooting stats as Immortals.
Can make a good retinue with the Lord.
They have many uses, but best when in a small unit, 4 or 5, and this also allows them to stay quite hidden, advancing behind a monolith or non-moving cover
Praxiss wrote:Transports basically enable you to move your army to capture objectives a little more safely. Especially with all the high S weapons out there, a foot slogging army can be very difficult to win with, especially when they are as slow as 'crons.
I see your point about objective capturing. However I disagree with you on necrons being slow. I think they're quite fast, actually. Only a couple of units are slow - ctan, pariah and tomb spiders. Everyone else can either VoD or be transported by deep striking liths. Kind of makes us double fast. Most people are probably thinking about skimmers and fast vehicles. Stuff just magically moving around the table must throw a monkey wrench in to a competitors battle plan.
The thing is that if you do play Warhammer 40k game, either friendly or tournament environment, for a while, you would get the idea how unsafe it could be to DS a unit into the midth of fighting without any enhancement like locator beacon or droppod rule, especially in the case of holding/contesting objectives. In the 5th edition environment, an army like necron without transport could be slaughtered: either with a ton of firepower when you are moving along on foot or mishap to death...
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Praxiss wrote: I dont tend to use VOD simply becuase my luck with scatter dice is notoriously bad, and i only have one 'Lith so can't pop stuff aroudn as much as i probably should.
Especially that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
yakface wrote:
3) We'll be Back is no longer called that and it is NOT Feel No Pain. Basically it is a 5+ bonus save similar to Feel No Pain, but doesn't get cancelled out by double strength, AP1/2, etc. In addition, this save is made at the END of the phase after morale tests are taken. If the unit is wiped out or is falling back at the end of the phase, then the save cannot be used. So as an opponent, if you manage to wipe the unit out or make them fall back, then you prevent any Necrons from getting back up...unless the unit has something called the 'ever-living' rule, in which case it gets to attempt this save even if the unit is wiped out.
So with that, Can I assume that the fearless rule for "necron" models is gone also? "If the unit is wiped out or is falling back at the end of the phase"
I get this point, but perhaps instead of giving them transports they could have improved the teleportation or the way they can DS? you know to make them a little different instead of having yet another transport army
Don't get me wrong tanks are cool and all, but I don't think it suits every army to have some sort of transport
It'd be kinda like giving the Nids a transport, it just doesn't fit what they are
But I can see why they'd give them transports, transports i'd imagine are a huge seller during this edition
its understandable, but doesn't really justify them having transports if you know what I mean?
This is all based of course on if they do have transports, which i'm hoping theyre not
it wont be a deal breaker for me, but it'll irritate me at the very least
You know one thing im hoping for is that they'll run with the idea in DOW and give tomb spiders the ability to spawn necron warriors or something like that
Kinda like tervigons
angelshade00 wrote:Wishful thinking i guess...
And how do 'Necroblast Gauss Missiles' sound?
Awesome. Fire the missile, for every unsaved woudn roll a D6. on a 5+ the target is turned into a new shint necron warrior.
A weapon that could do that would need to have a name starting with "Nano/Necro Converter" or some variation.
Back on topic. I like a lot of the rumors and would be pretty happy if most turned out correct, or very close to it. Like others have said though, I don't like the idea of transports. I think some sort of stationary teleporting vehicle which can deepstrike would fit the Cron's better. Also I'm not sold on destroyers becoming jump infantry. It just seems... wrong.
The main changes i can see in it are that they lose the ability to Turbo Boost and fire Heavy Weapons on the move. So here's hoping their gun does actually become Assault.
But like you said, it doesn't fit. Does anyone see Destroyers bouncing around the battlefield in big leaps? No, neither do i.
So with that, Can I assume that the fearless rule for "necron" models is gone also? "If the unit is wiped out or is falling back at the end of the phase"
That never existed in the first place.
Sorry I had mistaken the rules... Pariah is Fearless, but not "necron"... So there goes Pariah then...
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Asuron wrote:You know one thing im hoping for is that they'll run with the idea in DOW and give tomb spiders the ability to spawn necron warriors or something like that
Kinda like tervigons
Sure GW selling is a factor, and fluff-wise necron don't just "hop in" on a vehicle... But with the 5th edition mech-list go popular, I think we should look to the similar case of "unique and independent characters" here. Fluff-wise (at least according to the current codex) necron cannot really have distinguished "characters" in their army, even lords. But as SW/ BA/ DED new codex taking the lead, I am fairly certain that IC/ UC would be the "star" in the new codex, even the 6th edition rulebook in the rumor. To suit that trend (I'm just guessing here), new necron codex incorporates all these "named characters".
Same logic here. Maybe GW could pay more attention on the fluff regarding "necron hopping in vehicles" things, even make it "teleport-like"
As the idea of DOW regarding tomb spiders, well we could like towards yak's rumor that describes "ever-living" and find its place there...
Phil's doing Sisters. Look forward to Cruddance, though!
Does that mean HH gunship squadrons?
I quite liked the IG codex, it was very clean cut and was a good update of the previous edition
Well enjoy your well nerf'd crons people!
so the question we must now ask is do you like your nerfing medium, rare or well and truly nerf'd to a crisp?
Phototoxin wrote:
I hope they don't get transports. I don't want another mech MEQ army. I got into necrons because they didn't have tanks. I wanted a phalanx...
No other MEQ army has fast open-topped skimmers, so its really not going to be the same regardless.
And even with transport vehicles, that doesn't necessarily mean you won't be able to play a walking phalanx. Most codexes have several competitive builds these days and its entirely possible that one of the builds that works won't utilize the new-fangled transport vehicles.
So what I said just went unheard. Okay then I'll ask it. Is Mat Ward the SOLE writer of the Necron codex? Oh has he just picked up where it was left off?
As for change, yeah, I kinda expected a lot of change. Necrons have barely anything going for them - one troops choice and a lack of HQ's hampers them. Transports meanwhile, well, they need justification as I said before.
I'm going to wait and see what happens. I really look forward to the new Immortals... just got to stay away and finish me Orks...
Juvieus Kaine wrote:So what I said just went unheard. Okay then I'll ask it. Is Mat Ward the SOLE writer of the Necron codex? Oh has he just picked up where it was left off?
As for change, yeah, I kinda expected a lot of change. Necrons have barely anything going for them - one troops choice and a lack of HQ's hampers them. Transports meanwhile, well, they need justification as I said before.
I'm going to wait and see what happens. I really look forward to the new Immortals... just got to stay away and finish me Orks...
I read somewhere that it isn't Matt Ward alone, that it is a colloboration of two or three writers. Take this with a grain of salt (as you should all Necron rumors at this stage), but that's the only thing I've heard about the writers so far.
Edit: Here it is. This was snipped from BoLS, not sure if it is was originally from Dakka or Warseer, though:
MadCowCrazy wrote:Necrons
Author : Mat Ward for the bulk of the codex, but two others were involved before him.
Phil's doing Sisters. Look forward to Cruddance, though!
Does that mean HH gunship squadrons? I quite liked the IG codex, it was very clean cut and was a good update of the previous edition
Well enjoy your well nerf'd crons people! so the question we must now ask is do you like your nerfing medium, rare or well and truly nerf'd to a crisp?
Jelly
Ward actually wrote a few pretty balanced codices. Its his fluff that most people get nerd rage from. Just sayin. That and flying land raiders lol
The main changes i can see in it are that they lose the ability to Turbo Boost and fire Heavy Weapons on the move. So here's hoping their gun does actually become Assault.
But like you said, it doesn't fit. Does anyone see Destroyers bouncing around the battlefield in big leaps? No, neither do i.
Just because they're classed as "jump infantry" doesn't mean they actually jump around. Maybe it's a personal teleporter (NOT GK TELEPORTER) that allows them to teleport short distances instead.
KingCracker wrote:So the Space Marines are autobots then?
Automatically Appended Next Post: By the by, Micheal bay ruined my childhood memories. Ward did not
He did mine.
Grey Knights were one of my favorites back when i was a kid. All-terminator armoured, teleporting demon-killers who would take on a bloodthirster one on one despite the size/power differences. A few brave, pure souls against the dark...
Tabitha wrote:Read the history in Codex: Space wolves. It talks about sisters making the mistake of fighting space marines. (Granted there are ALOT more space wolves then most normal chapters have, people wise.)
Well, admittedly Space Wolves are crazy. Never read C:SW, but I always consider that each codex 'stars' the army featured within, so expect them to be amazing compared to whatever they're dealing with, unless it's the rare instance where a heroic defeat is thrown in.
KingCracker wrote:So the Space Marines are autobots then?
Automatically Appended Next Post: By the by, Micheal bay ruined my childhood memories. Ward did not
I didn't think the first movie was half bad. I did refuse to see the second one though. I saw enough of the commercials to know that the second one would ruin my all time favourite childhood show and toys. The reviews confirmed it.
KingCracker wrote:So the Space Marines are autobots then?
Automatically Appended Next Post: By the by, Micheal bay ruined my childhood memories. Ward did not
I didn't think the first movie was half bad. I did refuse to see the second one though. I saw enough of the commercials to know that the second one would ruin my all time favourite childhood show and toys. The reviews confirmed it.
When Michael Bay was interviewed before the first movie and he said, "I never got why Megatron would transform into a gun." I knew the franchise was not in good hands.
Phil's doing Sisters. Look forward to Cruddance, though!
Does that mean HH gunship squadrons?
I quite liked the IG codex, it was very clean cut and was a good update of the previous edition
Well enjoy your well nerf'd crons people!
so the question we must now ask is do you like your nerfing medium, rare or well and truly nerf'd to a crisp?
Jelly
Really?
Let's start with the fact, that Matt Ward has written good (if poorly worded and named) rules, Unlike Your "Clean cut" IG codex, which is considered to be way to strong by the majority of players. Wards codexes have all been competitive, without being to strong.
Not to mention, how is he going to Nerf the Necrons, beyond their current state? Currently they are considered the weakest codex, so I doubt there is anyway they could get any worse rules wise.
So please instead of senselessly bashing on the author, and referring to a "Nerfing" based on absolutely nothing, you could contribute something positive to the thread.
So, Can everyone here please lay off the Ward hate. We get it, You don't like him for X number of reasons. There are plenty of other threads that you can bash him in, but this thread is for Necron Rumors, not for planning to draw and quarter Matt Ward.
(I do not endorse his fluff writing, it's probably the worst ever)
KingCracker wrote:So the Space Marines are autobots then?
Automatically Appended Next Post: By the by, Micheal bay ruined my childhood memories. Ward did not
I didn't think the first movie was half bad. I did refuse to see the second one though. I saw enough of the commercials to know that the second one would ruin my all time favourite childhood show and toys. The reviews confirmed it.
When Michael Bay was interviewed before the first movie and he said, "I never got why Megatron would transform into a gun." I knew the franchise was not in good hands.
Sorry for the derail. . .
To bring this back on topic(ish). I'd imagine if there is a big necron type walker thing it would actually probably look kinda transformer like, it may even look more like the micheal bay transformers. Helpfully ruining two possible child hood dreams all rolled into one jk.
I wonder, if this "C'tan as elites" rumor is true, i wonder if the elite slot would be generic C'tan, and then there would be special character C'tan's like Nightbringer or Deciver. Or would Nightbringer and Deciver be totally dropped from the book. Much like how back in the day the only death company dread for BA was Moriar the chosen, but he is gone now and replaced with generic Death Co Dread.
Oh my god this thread has become a Mat Ward hate thread. Wonderful. It's like Godwyn's Law or something.
Yep
Even if it's all true hearing it for the ten thousandth time is just tedious beyond words...
Back on topic (again) for everyone who's fearing the mention of transports it's worth noting that GW already refer to the monolith as a "transport". That's the term they use for the function it plays on battlefield (relocation of troops) regardless of what the underlying mechanic is (hop-on or teleport or resurrect/reassemble) and so that's also the term we would have expected any GW source to use to describe a mobile/static teleporter anyway.
Personally I suspect there'll be one new teleporter (a rhino equivalent to the monolith's landraider equivalent) and some big multipurpose platform (barge?) akin to the arachnarok or sphinx model with one build as a lord transport. A single big kit with a common chassis for multiple builds could easily account for three or four of the vehicles alluded to.
Yeah, I would much rather they used the transport as teleportation hubs (like the 'lith), rather than your typical monolith. I think that would be an interesting dynamic.
Oh yeah, I noticed that myself, but I guess teleportation does suit the Necrons more and does fit with the Necron's current mechanic - but not 5th editions...
Just Dave wrote:Oh yeah, I noticed that myself, but I guess teleportation does suit the Necrons more and does fit with the Necron's current mechanic - but not 5th editions...
I would like to see something like a stationary pylon that's AV14 all around with something like Living Metal that can forgo shooting to teleport a unit anywhere on the battlefield instead of a transport. Course, this is getting into wishlisting now and we want to steer clear of that.
However, if they are doing something like the Egyptian barge look as was posted earlier, I will be happy with the release.
Just Dave wrote:Oh yeah, I noticed that myself, but I guess teleportation does suit the Necrons more and does fit with the Necron's current mechanic - but not 5th editions...
I would like to see something like a stationary pylon that's AV14 all around with something like Living Metal that can forgo shooting to teleport a unit anywhere on the battlefield instead of a transport. Course, this is getting into wishlisting now and we want to steer clear of that.
However, if they are doing something like the Egyptian barge look as was posted earlier, I will be happy with the release.
I wouldn't call that wishlisting, I'd call it "wanting Apocalypse"
If they released Necron Obelisks that DS in immobile, possibly with a 1d6 scatter to compensate, with a portal and Gauss Flux Arcs, that'd be awesome. And I hope that's what happens, rather than these new rumours...
Chamleoneyes wrote:I wonder, if this "C'tan as elites" rumor is true, i wonder if the elite slot would be generic C'tan, and then there would be special character C'tan's like Nightbringer or Deciver. Or would Nightbringer and Deciver be totally dropped from the book.
Possibly, there would be a generic C'tan as you said who can get customizable powers (like the rumors mention) to represent the previous codex's named characters. IE, no named C'tan's but a customizable template.
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Just Dave wrote:Oh yeah, I noticed that myself, but I guess teleportation does suit the Necrons more and does fit with the Necron's current mechanic - but not 5th editions...
Yes, but if the rumors are to be believed, 5th edition's reign will end within a year's time.
Chamleoneyes wrote:I wonder, if this "C'tan as elites" rumor is true, i wonder if the elite slot would be generic C'tan, and then there would be special character C'tan's like Nightbringer or Deciver. Or would Nightbringer and Deciver be totally dropped from the book.
Possibly, there would be a generic C'tan as you said who can get customizable powers (like the rumors mention) to represent the previous codex's named characters. IE, no named C'tan's but a customizable template.
Yeah, I don't really see the issue with this. I mean, if they're manifestations of Star Gods, then why wouldn't they be "customizable"? Couldn't the avatar take on any powers it wanted for whatever situation arose?
Seems logical to me. Oh wait. . .maybe that's the problem.
Azure wrote:The Pariahs? Gone? D: That makes me very sad to hear!!! The other stuff sounds pretty nifty though
Pariah arent guranteed gone, these are basically the best guesses the OP has made through discussions of the upcoming codex. I will be expecting the return of most units, if not to put them into retinues. If they do get a walker who allows gauss weaponry to be twin linked that will be lots of fun. Necron transports will make me very happy as they now cant get murdered by any assault based army. If immortals reduce cost AND become troops I will be very happy. 40-50 str. 5 assault 2 shots that glance vehicles? THANK YOU
Scarey Nerd wrote:Well, these new rumours specifically said "Carry 15", which doesn't suggest moving portals, it does suggest "get in and go" style transportation.
Maybe it can only teleport a 15 man unit at a time?
Scarey Nerd wrote:Well, these new rumours specifically said "Carry 15", which doesn't suggest moving portals, it does suggest "get in and go" style transportation.
Maybe it can only teleport a 15 man unit at a time?
This guy apparently knows the whole codex and goes on to describe who is wrong and right among the rumour mills he has found and ends stating that Yak's are the most accurate yet nothing too new here but if you do go take your salt etc etc!
Mar wrote:http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2011/04/30/future-tact-necrom-rumor-review/
This guy apparently knows the whole codex and goes on to describe who is wrong and right among the rumour mills he has found and ends stating that Yak's are the most accurate yet nothing too new here but if you do go take your salt etc etc!
I didn't read the comments before I linked it but some real rage exists in there! but the guy raging does make the decent point that the person claiming to know the entire codex reveals nothing new and merely confirms another persons rumours which they were critical of other rumour mills doing just that. Balanced judgements aside I am more inclined to believe Yak's rumours then the others because he seems far more credible due to his position on the site and he has not followed the rest of the rumours but stuck his neck out for a very different set of rumours.
Regardless salt must always be carried in the search for truth.
Just so it's here in the thread, Here is what was said on BloodofKittens Blog.
After discussing what to write next with my friend whose a huge Necron fan, she made some excellent points about what she thought you all needed to know this far out. I was going to write a full transcription of the codex from memory but she pointed out that I’d get more joy by frustrating and teasing as many people as possible. So today I’m going to write a review of the current rumors about our third favorite metal skeletons (#1 and #2 are of course the Busey Bot 9000 and Mary-Kate).
Now, imagine my confusion when a bunch of rumors for the Necrons pop’d up last week here on this side of the pan-dimensional temporal slant shunt. It’s pretty clear from a cursory reading that there are a lot of attention seekers out there. They just make a wish list with about 50% “no brainer” guesses. This way their list looks like they have some inside information, and everyone talks about what they are saying. It’s pretty apparent when you know what is actually happening with the books. If you go back and look at the actual track record of these so called “sources” you’ll see that only the vaguest guesses usually come true. Many times they will even be so wrong that they must pull a “printing error made them change it”. This is my favorite, usually when it comes down to what army is next. Oh, the Tau rumors are the MOST glaringly hilarious of the “printer error” rumors. Mark my words, within 6 months it will be reported that there was a “Printing Error” that forced the Tau back.
So let’s examine some of those rumors! I’ll be using a post made on Bell of Lost souls, this is in no way an admonishment of them, and they do a service attempting to collect all the rumors from various locations. You can read their whole article HERE. I’m just going to use this list because it is a convenient place to grab a broad “collection” of the chatter.
Let’s start with the block attributed to Kroothawk. While his release date is close, it shows that his source (if he has one) isn’t close to GW corporate. It might be a tester or just a guess. Much of what he claims (necrons cheaper, wbb tweaks, new plastic kits) are just no brainer guesses. The bits about Necron Maladies and the list of new lords is just fabrication.
There are a couple nuggets of truth in here, maybe on accident! Immortals do get a new kit and do have some new options. Pariahs are not “overhauled” but instead “removed”, although they do make decent models for a retinue. As for the colored rods… well they got sold in a blister (40 to a pack) on my side of the P.D.T.S.S. but that was a second wave thing, so maybe they go in the boxes over here. I can’t rule it out.
MadCowCrazy weighs in with another mix that needs distilling a bit. He makes a lot of blanket “duh” statements, like tech-upgrades instead of psychic powers which follows the current theme of gadgets. The C’Tan aren’t out of the codex and Immortals aren’t troops because of a Lord… they just are. He dials it in too much, however, with “Phase Out” being reworked (its removed), hinting that some of what he is claiming is just good guesses.
These good guesses might be backed up by an actual source somewhere, however. Matt Ward is indeed working on the codex. For all the hate he receives, it should be noted that he doesn’t make his decisions in a void. It’s easy to blame him for things, but that just shows a significant ignorance on complainer’s part. The colored rods rumor pops back up here, giving it more weight. The new fast attack unit isn’t what he claims it to be. He is describing a new Elite choice… but he is still off by a wide margin. The “lawn mower” he describes is also not a simple “lots of shots” weapon. It’s much cooler than that.
Finally we come to Tabitha, who I will assume is a lady. She sums up a good number of other rumors in a vague way. Anything she repeats is just as wrong/write as the other guys.
Her release date is a bit closer, however, and her overall details are just a little closer. Either she is a much better guesser or she is a tester. The one thing she is way off on is the “no transports”.
All in all, these rumors miss out on a few of the big “OMG” moments in the codex. They don’t make a big enough deal about Dedicated Transport options or the Rays, Gauss, Tesla themes that run throughout the codex. The over-all “50’s sci-fi robot monster” feeling is grim-darked up nicely and the codex has some awesome toys in it to make you want to make “VRRRBBRRAAAAMMMM” noises as you carve a line through enemy units.
Hmm, maybe I should write up a tactica for one of the weapon types.
P.S. We have these new rumors. They came out while I was writing this article! They are accurate to what happened over on the REAL Earth. It has a few minor errors. Mostly stuff that can easily be attributed to word of mouth explanations and repetition from memory. So all in all, there is your jackpot Necron fans.
Too funny. The guy bemoaning others for putting out false information won't give you any information other than, "they're wrong". Because why? Because his friend suggested that it would be more fun. . .
I stopped reading the article when I read that his friend was a she. We all know there are no girls on the interwebs.
puma713 wrote:Too funny. The guy bemoaning others for putting out false information won't give you any information other than, "they're wrong". Because why? Because his friend suggested that it would be more fun. . .
I stopped reading the article when I read that his friend was a she. We all know there are no girls on the interwebs.
ashikenshin wrote:yeah it was kind of weird he said: everyone else copies other people's rumors then goes to say oh yakface's rumors are the correct ones.
I hope we hear more soon.
True but he does mention or hint about several items that Yak brought up in the OP...and his post preempts (comes before) Yaks by a day.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Bloodofkittens certainly thinks highly of himself...
TasteTaste was the originator of BOK and is also a poster; BadTaste, the one who wrote this particular article, seams to be a separate poster.
Phil's doing Sisters. Look forward to Cruddance, though!
Does that mean HH gunship squadrons?
I quite liked the IG codex, it was very clean cut and was a good update of the previous edition
Well enjoy your well nerf'd crons people!
so the question we must now ask is do you like your nerfing medium, rare or well and truly nerf'd to a crisp?
Jelly
I'm sorry to piss on your parade (well, actually I'm not), but...Tau are way out there. Ward could still write them, no problem.
Even worse...Tau might be Codex Chaos of 5th edition. Last in the line with a strange design philosophy, stuck for an entire edition between here and there, failing at doing anything properly.
Just two remarks on the BoK summary:
1.) They list me as a source because Bell of Lost Souls made a false quote as usual (well at least they now STATE sources! ): I just quoted a Warseer poster without commenting. Same with MadCowCrazy, but he is less polite when commenting on BoK 2.) The rumours from real earth mentioned at the end link to the Yakface's rumours in the first post of this thread.
Pfft, I wouldn't take Blood of[Mod Edit - Please don't do that...thanks!] serious for anything. All they do is copy other peoples rumours and claim them as their own, at least that is what they have done so far.
I found it slowed that the poster somehow believes me and Kroothawk are the sources behind allot of the rumours, we both clearly collect rumours other people have posted into a single thread. I do it at Heresy and Kroothawk does it here yet this guy thinks we are the people posting the the rumours? Then he has the nerve to come claim we are making it all up, getting lucky here and there and wishlisting most of it. He does all this yet does not provide a single new rumour himself.... heck I can do that as well, everyone who has ever post a rumour about the Necrons is a liar, only I know the truth about the codex but I wont post any information at all. I've never posted any rumours of my own or am a credible person on the internet but believe me over everyone else because they are wrong....indeed....
/facepalm /rant over
Please don't use "slowed" as a synonym for stupid. That's against our rules.
I don't know how he knows what Yak says before he says it but I just pointed out before its a bit hypocritical to judge others one thing then doing the same thing. Also Kroothawk I am sure us Dakka folk know you was just repeating what you heard!
After discussing what to write next with my friend whose a huge Necron fan, she made some excellent points about what she thought you all needed to know this far out. I was going to write a full transcription of the codex from memory but she pointed out that I’d get more joy by frustrating and teasing as many people as possible. So today I’m going to write a review of the current rumors about our third favorite metal skeletons (#1 and #2 are of course the Busey Bot 9000 and Mary-Kate).
Come on these arn't to be believed we know Mary-Kate is our number one most favoritest robot.
MadCowCrazy wrote:Pfft, I wouldn't take Blood of[Mod Edit - Please don't do that...thanks!] serious for anything. All they do is copy other peoples rumours and claim them as their own, at least that is what they have done so far.
Oh really...
Please take a look at the backlog of my rumors concerning Grey Knights and Dark Eldar and then take the dates they were posted and then go find me the other sites I stole those rumors from (I am not talking about clarifications of rumors). I would gladly give credit when it is due, but I searched the usual sites before I go posting something to make sure I am not talking over someone. Hardly copying a pasting.
If you noticed me or Badtaste were simply commenting on the rumors from what I know about the codex. I have to admit that Yakface beat me to the punch on the rumors he posted and badtaste edited the post to reflect that he was on spot on. Notice him or me didn't take credit for those rumors and gave credit to Yakface for leaking them. As always we will have to wait till the book goes live before we know the truth, but I will stand by current record anyday.
Just means I cannot hold on to them as long as I would normally like to protect my sources.
MadCowCrazy wrote:Pfft, I wouldn't take Blood of[Mod Edit - Please don't do that...thanks!] serious for anything. All they do is copy other peoples rumours and claim them as their own, at least that is what they have done so far.
Lol people always hating on BoK wtf. Their sites hella entertaining with their uncensored rants and even if he did copy anything from this forum so what? Someones always copying someone, but this is not the case in this topic. He gathered cited users and compiled his own rumors through the most accurate rumors. If you read into the predictions, BoK is about 50-80% accurate on their rumors.
Also, I found this while looking for a beta dex. It was fanmade in 09.
MadCowCrazy wrotefft, I wouldn't take Blood of[Mod Edit - Please don't do that...thanks!] serious for anything. All they do is copy other peoples rumours and claim them as their own, at least that is what they have done so far.
Since I am older than dirt, I tend to see the various nicks/players/companies/etc. in my travels.
I know of this site.
People and by their actions will make a site popular or not, and that is all that needs to be said about that site or any other.
I will say this again. In general, the Dakka Dakka site, the forums, (including this rumor thread), how people are reasonable with their comments, the Mods and how keep things from going into anarchy, are execeptional.
Which is why it is one of the Premiere sites to go to for your Hobby needs.
I found it slowed that the poster somehow believes me and Kroothawk are the sources behind allot of the rumours, we both clearly collect rumours other people have posted into a single thread. color]
Well, even that carries with it a certain weight of responsibility. You need to realize that even if you do preface your posts with, I GOT THIS FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE, people may not read it, may glaze over it or simply ignore it. If you put your name on a post, even if it's a quote or a collaboration, your name is on the post.
For instance, he may not have come here at all. If you'll notice the BoLS article here simply posts Kroothawk, MadCowCrazy and Tabitha as the posters of the rumors. It doesn't do anything to say that you may have gotten your info elsewhere.
In fact, it looks like the BoK author took all his information from that article, since the three authors he mentions are the ones that have rumors up there.
I'm not defending BoK in the least. I think BadTaste's attitude is crap and his article was even more useless than discussing rumors that aren't true. But, if you are going to report rumors, even if they are secondhand, remember that you're putting your name on them.
Moving back on the actual rumors and away from attribution arguments, I take some personal satisfaction about the rumor of Crypteks/bodyguards that you can disperse into units a la Wolf Guard, seeing as I've been (probably annoyingly) touting that for Necrons on internet forums for a few years now. Heck, I even lobbied Jervis via snail mail.
Of course, I was specifically promoting that as a solution for Pariahs, but who's counting? LOL. Besides, maybe Pariahs will make the final codex in there with the Crypteks, perhaps under a different name? Based on DE and GK, it's not impossible that Necrons would receive a retinue with diversified model types.
If Pariahs are gone in every way, shape or form, GW will have surprised me. They usually try harder than people think to keep old models valid (even if certain builds are nuked or take huge pendulum swings in effectiveness). They're even a fairly central point of the current Necron fluff. Which obviously is highly mutable, but still.
So one speculation I am having is that destroyers may go the way of the Grotesques and become something else. If they truly are going to be jump infantry then it seems odd given their current miniature. However, tomb blades could be skimmers and use the current destroyer model. Since destroyers are rumored to get a new plastic kit (although its supposed to be only slightly different?) this "could" make sense. Thoughts?
Azure wrote:The Pariahs? Gone? D: That makes me very sad to hear!!! The other stuff sounds pretty nifty though
Does this mean that the warscythe will be gone
No, I am pretty sure it is still there in one form or another, or at least, I haven't read anything saying its gone. Also Fall of Damnos (which probably has some bearing on the new codex) has some weapons in it which seem like they are warscythes.
Azure wrote:The Pariahs? Gone? D: That makes me very sad to hear!!! The other stuff sounds pretty nifty though
Does this mean that the warscythe will be gone
No, I am pretty sure it is still there in one form or another, or at least, I haven't read anything saying its gone. Also Fall of Damnos (which probably has some bearing on the new coded) has some weapons in it which seem like they are warscythes.
i hope it is their to stay because it comes in very handy on a destroyer lord
Its strange when people pretend to know like a crap ton of stuff, but wont put it out because they want to be mysterious. Or maybe its because they don’t have anything new?
Is some of my info wrong? Yea, probably. Is some of it going to change? Sure. I think the first couple lines of my original post mentioned that.
I think most of us “rumor” posters are not play testers or GW employee’s or super spies. We are just friends with people who are testers or work over there, and occasionally when talking to said friends we get some nice info or maybe get to see a few pictures / screens of something cool that’s coming out. And then an hour / day / 3 months later we might write all that stuff down and be like “Here internet, have this.”
We forget things. We mis-interpret things. We might get told something, and then that something doesn’t happen or changes. Hell maybe we just remember something wrong.
But we do put out information which is accurate as far as we know. Maybe only 50-70% of it is “right” or will make it into the codex. Maybe less in the case of some posters. But I am sure, judging by the number of people who respond to and read these posts, that there are people who would rather have rumors which are only half correct than not have anything but speculation until the incoming e-mail.
Anyway, the new Eldar Jetbikes look awesome. They will be in the first wave Eldar release when those guys come out. You heard it here first, look for it on BoK or BoLS in 9 months.
Sorry this got a little off the topic of the Necron rumors.
Azure wrote:The Pariahs? Gone? D: That makes me very sad to hear!!! The other stuff sounds pretty nifty though
Does this mean that the warscythe will be gone
No, I am pretty sure it is still there in one form or another, or at least, I haven't read anything saying its gone. Also Fall of Damnos (which probably has some bearing on the new codex) has some weapons in it which seem like they are warscythes.
If these rumours are true, I wouldn't pay too much attention to Fall of Damnos, as brilliant a book as it was. Crypteks being a bodyguard makes absolutely no sense in the context of the book, neither do transport vehicles, or Immortals as troop really, and other things but posting this is making me late for school
For the record: C'tan as elites is not that bizare. Take berzerker dreadnought for instance, that thing is absolutely nuts. Then take into account C'tan dont ever technically really die.... and then they may very well be leaders of the necrons, but they dont really fit into the command structure.. so... gotta fit them in somewhere without giving someone freebie unit choices outside the FOC, especially if they are going to remain as cracked up as they are.
I think its just best to wait though, we might be in for a fluffvolution.
Azure wrote:The Pariahs? Gone? D: That makes me very sad to hear!!! The other stuff sounds pretty nifty though
Does this mean that the warscythe will be gone
No, I am pretty sure it is still there in one form or another, or at least, I haven't read anything saying its gone. Also Fall of Damnos (which probably has some bearing on the new codex) has some weapons in it which seem like they are warscythes.
If these rumours are true, I wouldn't pay too much attention to Fall of Damnos, as brilliant a book as it was. Crypteks being a bodyguard makes absolutely no sense in the context of the book, neither do transport vehicles, or Immortals as troop really, and other things but posting this is making me late for school
Really I thought it worked pretty well.
Spoiler:
1) The necron lords had a lot of (comparatively) personality, and the Eqyptions in space theme was pretty strong
2)The cryptek was at the lords beck and call. Especially the Royarch. So I can see them being, not bodyguards, but like squad leaders. Also they are not noble, they are just elevated servants. Although I do admit I think it would make more sense if they were like squad leaders, which IIRC is against these rumors.
3) The Undying had a warhost that consisted of almost exclusively Immortals and his elite bodyguards (which I think were also Immortals) armed with 'glaives' I think.
4) There was a Flayer lord
5) There were many new and terrible weapons that were yet to be unleashed on the Space Marines.
6) There were 2 possible new vehicles mentioned, something called a sky chariot which was the Undying's thing and some sort of artillery piece that was in addition to the Pylons.
Now I will say there were no transports, just the phase teleporter thing. But I do not think it was too far off to be considered completely useless.
Overall i am liking what i have read so far. I am a little worried about the rumours of 6 new vehicles......i think that might be a stretch.
Also the new unit "Tomb Blades" as a jetbike. Has anyone else got visions of Necron Reaver Jetbikes?
If Necrons are "Tomb Kings in space" i wonder if we can get any hints from their new models? A Necron version of the warsphinx could be funky.
My worry is that if Immortals are going to be troops, what will happen to the lowly warrior? Up until now it has been the core of any necron army so the maority of players will have a large number of them. It would be very annoying if they are rendered worthless all of a sudden.
Ratius wrote:I was really hoping they would shelve the Ctan on the tabletop altogether.
Oh well.
I was hoping they'd be taken out of the Codex and put into Apocalypse, seeing as they are supposed to be gods and all that. Besides, a massive Forge world model of the Nightbringer would have been awesome.
Tabitha wrote:Its strange when people pretend to know like a crap ton of stuff, but wont put it out because they want to be mysterious.
Or because they're under NDA.
True but in this case Tabitha is refering to the BoK post where the poster states he could simply write out everything he could remember but a friend said it would be more fun to tease and frustrate people. Not to mention the irony that he decries people regurgitating existing rumours and adding nothing then goes on to do exactly that simply pointing out what rumours according to him are wrong while he may correct them a little he provides nothing new.
Tabitha wrote:Its strange when people pretend to know like a crap ton of stuff, but wont put it out because they want to be mysterious.
Or because they're under NDA.
True but in this case Tabitha is refering to the BoK post where the poster states he could simply write out everything he could remember but a friend said it would be more fun to tease and frustrate people. Not to mention the irony that he decries people regurgitating existing rumours and adding nothing then goes on to do exactly that simply pointing out what rumours according to him are wrong while he may correct them a little he provides nothing new.
This completely I think, I have never used their website before so I can't comment there but the post they made was stupid based upon all these points mentioned. If you have a NDA fair enough but the only reason that post was made was to tease and frustrate people and at least for me it failed because I only got annoyed at the attitude that came across in the post.
I liked the VVVBRRRRRAAAAAAAMMMM part. That made me chuckle. Like every new codex, things will sound weird and people will rant on about how dumb it is. But once the dex actually drops (specially these last batches of codices) people are super pumped about how it turned out. Remember the leaked fuzzy dreadknight pic? EVERYONE bashed how stupid it looked, and talked how its ruining the grey knights and blah blah blah. But how many people use the dreadknight now?
13) Necron Warriors have the same basic statline they had before except they now have a 4+ save. Now before you go crazy, also note that their points cost is 12 points, which is a 1/3 price drop (down from 18 points). That means you get 1/3 more Warrior models in the army for the same amount of points...it also makes losing an entire unit due to sweeping advance, not nearly as painful.
I know a lot of cynical people will hate this and accuse GW from simply making the change to sell more Warrior models, and you could be right. But personally I was always hoping they were going to make Necron Warriors not quite as tough and dump the points cost on them, so you could really take a ton of them...given in my mind they are supposed to be more like a shambling horde of undead robots than some sort of small elite force of super-warriors (but that could just be me).
So this change alone totally changes the army from out of the 'MEQ' umbrella and makes their base statline unique in the game (which is good, IMHO).
14) Immortals have lost their T5 (down to T4), but keep their 3+ save. However, their points cost has dropped to 17 pts a model, which is an 11 point drop (more than 1/3 a drop from the previous cost of 28 pts)!
15) All units in the army benefit from the new WBB rule, not just the units that were formerly classified as 'Necrons' in the current codex (even Scarabs!). So although you're only getting a 5+ save in many cases, you're still getting it on some of the more expensive stuff in the army as well (and there are some pricey new units to counterbalance the relatively cheap Warriors and Immortals). Also the vehicle that can add models back into the unit is also able to use this ability on any unit.
15) Rez Orb is still in the game and boosts the new WBB rule to a 4+ instead of a 5+, but only affects the unit it is in. I have a strong suspicion that this is an upgrade that Crypteks can take (I'll confirm if I find out), so I'd imagine you can get quite a few units in the game getting the 4+ bonus save if you want to pay the points to take them for your Crypteks and then split those Crypteks off to lead units.
16) Veil of Darkness is now definitely something Crypteks can take (so you can have a bunch of 'em in the army), but it no longer allows a unit to be pulled out of combat (and neither does the Monolith), except in the case of the Veil carried by one of the named Lords.
17) In the new fluff it sounds like the C'Tan were mainly killed off by the Necrons (or something like that), so the C'Tan that you field in the game are just remaining shards of their power. They're naturally still a really mean Monstrous Creature who rocks in combat, but you can also purchase a bunch of different abilities. These abilities are in line with a lot of the things we've seen in the last few codexes, things like: messing around with Deep Striking enemy units, making enemies moving through terrain differently, and allowing the Necron player to change some of his deployment, etc. So it sounds like you have a lot of different options with the C'Tan that really mess with the enemy army and/or supplement your own. And they are not one per army (so you can have 3 if you want to use up all your Elites on them, although it sounds like the other Elites choices are pretty awesome as well).
18) Some of those six new vehicles include flyers (not sure how many), which can move at cruising speed and fire all their weapons.
19) Besides a few units that are Fearless (Wraiths, Tomb Spyders and Scarabs), the army doesn't have any sort of blanket immunity to morale. They are still Ld10, but obviously we know that still leaves them very vulnerable to being run down in combat, and it looks like that will remain a big Achilles heel.
20) Scarabs sound great. They are cheap, have the new WBB rule, move like beasts and have an ability that erodes enemy armor when they get into combat with it. Any non-vehicle model they wound, but don't kill, has its armor save turned to a dash (i.e. nothing) for the rest of the game. If they hit a vehicle, on a 4+ the vehicle loses a point of armor value on ALL facings, and if any facing is reduced to zero, then the vehicle is destroyed (I'm not sure if this ability kicks in for each hit they get on the vehicle, or just once no matter how many hits they cause). There are some items in the army that also have a similar ability to erode armor, including one of the C'Tan powers.
So it sounds like Scarabs may play a major role in most Necron armies!
21) Overall, CC is definitely still the weak point of the army, but it looks like they've got a lot of different places they can take special rules to slow down or screw with approaching enemy, including some of the C'Tan powers, but also some of the different gear they can take. But they also have some different potential counter-assault units, which mainly come out of the Elites section (besides the new Walker, the C'Tan and the flayed ones in Elites there are 3 OTHER brand new units in there as well, for a grand total of 6 Elites choices). The Flayed ones are, being consistent, cheaper than they were and now have 3 Attacks base (but their save is now 4+ as with standard Warriors). One of the other new Elite units is also CC oriented, but is very pricey points wise (but is S5/T5/3+save). This unit can wield a Warscythe, but they are not called Pariahs (no idea if that's what Pariahs have 'turned into' or not).
Another new Elites choice is a sniper style unit that can Deep Strike into play normally or it can choose to immediately Deep Strike immediately after the opponent brings an enemy unit on from Reserves, and they have some nasty additional damage ability against one nominated unit...obviously we need more info to know how useful this will really be, but the concept of countering an opponent's Reserve deployment immediately sounds interesting at least.
The last new Elites choice is an Elite Jump Infantry unit with very close range shooting and some decent CC ability (and are also S5/T5/3+save).
22) Fast Attack has 4 choices...Wraiths, Tomb Blades (jetbikes), Scarabs & Destroyers.
All that sounds awsome but im really disapointed we are not the "undead" machines we used to be.. t4-5 3+ save and a double 4+ wbb which was usually not denied coz of the orb. If they nerf survivability in an alreayd nerfed race they gonna have to boost everything else a lot, at least i hope so.
13) Necron Warriors have the same basic statline they had before except they now have a 4+ save. Now before you go crazy, also note that their points cost is 12 points, which is a 1/3 price drop (down from 18 points). That means you get 1/3 more Warrior models in the army for the same amount of points...it also makes losing an entire unit due to sweeping advance, not nearly as painful.
I know a lot of cynical people will hate this and accuse GW from simply making the change to sell more Warrior models, and you could be right. But personally I was always hoping they were going to make Necron Warriors not quite as tough and dump the points cost on them, so you could really take a ton of them...given in my mind they are supposed to be more like a shambling horde of undead robots than some sort of small elite force of super-warriors (but that could just be me).
So this change alone totally changes the army from out of the 'MEQ' umbrella and makes their base statline unique in the game (which is good, IMHO).
Your darned right! They needed to be cheaper but now they die to heavy bolters?
14) Immortals have lost their T5 (down to T4), but keep their 3+ save. However, their points cost has dropped to 17 pts a model, which is an 11 point drop (more than 1/3 a drop from the previous cost of 28 pts)!
So immortals are essentially *old* necron warriors but will be probably be on large bases and cost £20.50 for 5 I'm guessing which is SUXXOR!
15) All units in the army benefit from the new WBB rule, not just the units that were formerly classified as 'Necrons' in the current codex (even Scarabs!). So although you're only getting a 5+ save in many cases, you're still getting it on some of the more expensive stuff in the army as well (and there are some pricey new units to counterbalance the relatively cheap Warriors and Immortals). Also the vehicle that can add models back into the unit is also able to use this ability on any unit.
15) Rez Orb is still in the game and boosts the new WBB rule to a 4+ instead of a 5+, but only affects the unit it is in. I have a strong suspicion that this is an upgrade that Crypteks can take (I'll confirm if I find out), so I'd imagine you can get quite a few units in the game getting the 4+ bonus save if you want to pay the points to take them for your Crypteks and then split those Crypteks off to lead units.
Is WBB still negated by power weapons or ID? As if it is then the whole thing seems sucky.
16) Veil of Darkness is now definitely something Crypteks can take (so you can have a bunch of 'em in the army), but it no longer allows a unit to be pulled out of combat (and neither does the Monolith), except in the case of the Veil carried by one of the named Lords.
YAY maneouverability!
17) In the new fluff it sounds like the C'Tan were mainly killed off by the Necrons (or something like that), so the C'Tan that you field in the game are just remaining shards of their power. They're naturally still a really mean Monstrous Creature who rocks in combat, but you can also purchase a bunch of different abilities. These abilities are in line with a lot of the things we've seen in the last few codexes, things like: messing around with Deep Striking enemy units, making enemies moving through terrain differently, and allowing the Necron player to change some of his deployment, etc. So it sounds like you have a lot of different options with the C'Tan that really mess with the enemy army and/or supplement your own. And they are not one per army (so you can have 3 if you want to use up all your Elites on them, although it sounds like the other Elites choices are pretty awesome as well).
Sounds reasonable - like a 'bound' C'Tan g run down in combat, and it looks like that will remain a big Achilles heel.
20) Scarabs sound great. They are cheap, have the new WBB rule, move like beasts and have an ability that erodes enemy armor when they get into combat with it. Any non-vehicle model they wound, but don't kill, has its armor save turned to a dash (i.e. nothing) for the rest of the game. If they hit a vehicle, on a 4+ the vehicle loses a point of armor value on ALL facings, and if any facing is reduced to zero, then the vehicle is destroyed (I'm not sure if this ability kicks in for each hit they get on the vehicle, or just once no matter how many hits they cause). There are some items in the army that also have a similar ability to erode armor, including one of the C'Tan powers.
So it sounds like Scarabs may play a major role in most Necron armies!
Good - they need it. Also FYIOLD scarabs (the ones with no bases) used to latch on and either eat armor or else detonate and blow through the armour (like flying bombs!) so that seems feasable.
21) Overall, CC is definitely still the weak point of the army, but it looks like they've got a lot of different places they can take special rules to slow down or screw with approaching enemy, including some of the C'Tan powers, but also some of the different gear they can take. But they also have some different potential counter-assault units, which mainly come out of the Elites section (besides the new Walker, the C'Tan and the flayed ones in Elites there are 3 OTHER brand new units in there as well, for a grand total of 6 Elites choices). The Flayed ones are, being consistent, cheaper than they were and now have 3 Attacks base (but their save is now 4+ as with standard Warriors). One of the other new Elite units is also CC oriented, but is very pricey points wise (but is S5/T5/3+save). This unit can wield a Warscythe, but they are not called Pariahs (no idea if that's what Pariahs have 'turned into' or not).
Another new Elites choice is a sniper style unit that can Deep Strike into play normally or it can choose to immediately Deep Strike immediately after the opponent brings an enemy unit on from Reserves, and they have some nasty additional damage ability against one nominated unit...obviously we need more info to know how useful this will really be, but the concept of countering an opponent's Reserve deployment immediately sounds interesting at least.
The last new Elites choice is an Elite Jump Infantry unit with very close range shooting and some decent CC ability (and are also S5/T5/3+save).
Sounds like GW nerfing the old stuff and 'making' us buy new stuff.
22) Fast Attack has 4 choices...Wraiths, Tomb Blades (jetbikes), Scarabs & Destroyers.
Wow, this sounds like hot stuff. A player in our gaming group has bought a few old necron models off me and it looks like he has a lot of cool new toys to play with. Looking forward to hearing more.
Im going to guess, he only problem with all these new units, is the new units will be hardasses, and the units that all necron players have plenty of, are going to be ehhh. But at least the codex will have variety in it. Thats cool, as now Ill have something to build on. The crypteks sound pretty sweet. Possibly being able to split from the Lord, and VOD multiple units at a time around? Im down with that idea
Thanks for the additional info Yak! Much appreciated.
I admit, it doesn't sound too optimistic to me and I get the feeling that - like the Nids - there'll be certain 'must-take' units, but I'm withholding my decision/opinion until there's more information such as all the things that affect WBB etc. I'm not too optimistic about this release actually, but I'm happy to wait and see and see what happens.
12pts base warrior's pretty good though.
Cheers Yak.
*braces for inevitable cries of their army being ruined*
This update sounds great so far, it sounds like the Res orb is going to end up being a 4+ invul for the most part.
Scarabs sound Amazing, I Imagine we'll see those fielded in massive amounts.
While the 4+ kind of sucks, it's so much cheaper, I think I can deal with that, for sure, esp with a res orb.
It kind of sucks not being able to pull units out of combat anymore, but if we can take some extra punch in each unit, and with careful playing it should be too much of a problem.
Overall, I'm getting more and more excited!
Thank you so much Yak! You've really done all of us Necron Players a sevice!
All units in the army benefit from the new WBB rule, not just the units that were formerly classified as 'Necrons' in the current codex
That's a biggie IMHO; although they're not as tough, there could still be a whole lot more regeneration happening and to be able to do this to expensive units as well as base units is a massive boost. (see below)
Also the vehicle that can add models back into the unit is also able to use this ability on any unit.
15) Rez Orb is still in the game and boosts the new WBB rule to a 4+ instead of a 5+, but only affects the unit it is in. I have a strong suspicion that this is an upgrade that Crypteks can take (I'll confirm if I find out), so I'd imagine you can get quite a few units in the game getting the 4+ bonus save
As above, this sounds pretty damn big. Although the nerf to the individual RO is a big loss, to be able to take it on a wide variety of units (Crypteks potentially) and the bonuses that the vehicles and Tomb Spyders provide could mean that you have Necron units reappearing all over the place, which IMHO would more than compensate for the 4+/5+ saves.
16) Veil of Darkness is now definitely something Crypteks can take (so you can have a bunch of 'em in the army), but it no longer allows a unit to be pulled out of combat (and neither does the Monolith), except in the case of the Veil carried by one of the named Lords.
So improved manoeuvrability but still vulnerable to CC sounds about right and fairly balanced in a vacuum.
17) In the new fluff it sounds like the C'Tan were mainly killed off by the Necrons
Whuh?
18) Some of those six new vehicles include flyers (not sure how many), which can move at cruising speed and fire all their weapons.
Sounds pretty potent and adds further weight to the 'Wartorn Skies' rumour and fits with the current movement in recent Codices. Could also add some quite potent firepower and speed which is much needed.
19) Besides a few units that are Fearless (Wraiths, Tomb Spyders and Scarabs), the army doesn't have any sort of blanket immunity to morale.
This worries me a bit as this is also one of the big problems with the GK it seems and neither can really be pictured legging it from battle. Then again, I wonder how this will work alongside WBB/regeneration and is more reasonable with the reduced cost.
20) Scarabs sound great. They are cheap, have the new WBB rule, move like beasts and have an ability that erodes enemy armor ...There are some items in the army that also have a similar ability to erode armor, including one of the C'Tan powers.
That sounds like a seriously deadly way to improve the Necrons anti-armour as well as encouraging cohesion and coordinated play rather than point and click. Sounds good to me.
With Scarabs and Warriors being cheaper I can really imagine a horde of metal skinned dudes advancing, as the fluff typically suggests; this would also help GW sell more models...
21) Overall, CC is definitely still the weak point of the army, but it looks like they've got a lot of different places they can take special rules to slow down or screw with approaching enemy, including some of the C'Tan powers, but also some of the different gear they can take
That sounds very interesting. I wonder if these are available on Crypteks who are looking like becoming the heart and soul of the force.
Lot of potential here for the army to go either way IMHO; obviously people are going to focus on the negative, but once we get more information this could be a really powerful and durable force. Or not...
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yakface wrote:
Phototoxin wrote:
Is WBB still negated by power weapons or ID? As if it is then the whole thing seems sucky.
No the replacement rule for WBB is only negated if the unit is wiped out or falls back. Power Weapons, Instant Death, etc, now do not prevent it.
the 4+/5+ give them the same save against AP5-6 as Marines. 1/2 as good of a save vs. AP4 in the open. Same vs. AP4 if in cover. And better by 1/3 against AP1-3 in the open and in cover. Sounds resilient enough to me honestly.
Regarding the rest of the rumors this is the kind of thing that would finally end me not collecting Necrons. Largest turn off (i love the models) right now is the lack of character and variety in the army. Looks like this is gonna get fixed! And I'm always down to add another Xenos army
Big fan of Crons not being an MEQ army. Not sure if I like the sound of the back story on the C'tan changing. The C'tan being killed off by the Necron's sounds about as weird as the Eldar rising up and trying to kill off Khaine. Unless if this has to do with the Necrons regaining some of their lost personality and realizing both that the C'tan are greatly weakened from their past wars among themselves, and want to get revenge on them for turning their entire race into mindless automatons. If this is the case, then Kudos to GW for advancing the story of a race. Either way it sounds a bit far fetched, but I'll buy it either way.
Chamleoneyes wrote:Big fan of Crons not being an MEQ army. Not sure if I like the sound of the back story on the C'tan changing. The C'tan being killed off by the Necron's sounds about as weird as the Eldar rising up and trying to kill off Khaine. Unless if this has to do with the Necrons regaining some of their lost personality and realizing both that the C'tan are greatly weakened from their past wars among themselves, and want to get revenge on them for turning their entire race into mindless automatons. If this is the case, then Kudos to GW for advancing the story of a race. Either way it sounds a bit far fetched, but I'll buy it either way.
At one point the Eldar did try to kill Khaine long ago (eldarnesh I think the guys name that tried to) but I am just teasing, this new fluff intrigues me and confuses me but I supose we have to understand that its a snippet and I shall wait till I can put it into context. Not being a MEQ army is amazing in many ways fully acceptable with that points change. I am generally pleased by the sounds of these changes they sound cool! Thanks Yak I hope you have more to share in the future.
Yak, where do we place this rumour that was posted a few months ago.
New fast attack unit
Look kinda like flayed ones
They have an 18” charge with their special ability
Think jump infantry with special rules
5 per box
Is this the Elite Jump infantry or the FA jetbikes?
Quite a while back it was said WBB could only be negated by Ap1, ap2 and S9+, is there nothing that can negate it now unless the unit is destroyed or falling back?
Warriors being cheaper sounds amazing to me, even with a slight armor tweak, taking about a whole squad more for the same cost as 2 now makes me giddy. Immortals losing t5 makes me a little sad as that was their iconic thing but not having to fear instant death now? Big plus!
C'tan being killed off? Well I was expecting something Wardy to happen and actually...I enjoy that idea. Deicide is a great story maker.
Phototoxin wrote:
Is WBB still negated by power weapons or ID? As if it is then the whole thing seems sucky.
No the replacement rule for WBB is only negated if the unit is wiped out or falls back. Power Weapons, Instant Death, etc, now do not prevent it.
Ok, this and the option of unit by unit rez orbs have restored my faith in the possibilities of this new codex.
Admittedly the rez orbs will most likely be expensive, i'm also guessing the Cryteks (assuming they are the ones that carry them) will be on foot, thus making the basic and now cheap warriors more survivable and still valuable.
Just waiting on info on the nitty-gritty. Weapon stats etc. Are flayers now assault instead of rapid fire? Do Wraiths have power wapons or are they at least an option.
But at least now i'm not dreading this codex coming out. Looks like i need to hit ebay for more scarabs though!
OH GODS! GW you sneaky monkeys! Warrior boxes have 3 scarabs. Warriors got cheaper, you want to buy more. Scarabs got crazy awesome, you want to buy warrior boxes to get them. Unload all the old Warrior boxes before the new ones ship in the 2nd wave with the supposed color rods. Rinse repeat.
Hulksmash wrote:the 4+ [on top of 5++] gives them the same save against AP5-6 as Marines. 1/2 as good of a save vs. AP4 in the open. Same vs. AP4 if in cover. And better by 1/3 against AP1-3 in the open and in cover. Sounds resilient enough to me honestly.
[Small edit] My thoughts exactly...you could pretty much look at them as deamons that have guns, are more resiliant against shooting, are cheaper...and can ride around in metal boxes. The only question remaining is can they load up on special weapons?
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Phototoxin wrote:Sounds like GW nerfing the old stuff and 'making' us buy new stuff.
Certainly doesn't sound like that is the case for scarabs. They were already the best swarm unit in the game...now they look even more powerful.
A lot to process here. I'm not sure I'm thrilled with the new hordey direction of things but that could just be my perceptions.
I hope the first wave of models consists of mostly new stuff so we are not in a position where we have to wait to field all the cool new units in the codex.
I'm anxiously crossing my fingers for in incoming announcement somewhere around May 15th if they are going to be an August release.
The other concern that has already been brought up is the amount of counters it sound like a necron player will need to keep track of.
The rumored "marker" that the new MC will be able to throw and the scarab armor erosion can be painful to manage. I can't quite come up with a model that would allow you to easily keep track of the reduced armor value 4 tanks at a time.
Sarge wrote:So my dudes are T4 4+ Sv and transports all 'round. So I'm playing a mech vet army again?
What, your Mech Vets are all T4, have WBB, Gauss Weapons, disintegrating armour? Can they teleport and actually possess some counter-assault too?
You forgott skimmers . Though it is a bit to early to tell whether they can pull off a 5th ed. mech list yet as we don't know what the special weapon options are for the transports or embarked infantry.
Chamleoneyes wrote:I wonder, if this "C'tan as elites" rumor is true, i wonder if the elite slot would be generic C'tan, and then there would be special character C'tan's like Nightbringer or Deciver. Or would Nightbringer and Deciver be totally dropped from the book. Much like how back in the day the only death company dread for BA was Moriar the chosen, but he is gone now and replaced with generic Death Co Dread.
My assumption is that it would be more like how I've heard the Assassins are handled in C:GK. 'Ctan' is an 0-1 option in elites, and when selected you choose to take one of the C'Tan options for Nightbringer, Deceiver, etc.
An interesting idea for a Necron Transport would be to have a fluff reason for an 'undersized' transport. I.E. it's a 'transport' that stores the transported Necrons in some sort of teleport buffer matrix... So a relatively tiny but tough vehicle can float over to objectives and start warping in squads of Necrons.
i get the feeling the tomb blade jetbikes will somehow be reaver jetbike rip offs.
Warriors going from a 3+ save to a 4+ save isnt that bad honestly. Considering the cost reduction they are getting and the new WBB thats a large buff. Most of the fire necrons took was either ignoring WBB by being ap 1-2 or double strength, which the new WBB reportedly ignores and they still get their save, albiet at 5+ instead of 4+.
Considering you are paying 33% less per model (from 18 to 12) they are also arguably tougher against small arms fire with the 4+ save over the 3+ save pointwise. You are going to fail on average 16% more wounds but considering you spent 33% less points if you look at the unit as a pool of points you are actually losing less points than if they were 18pts and 3+ save against small arms.
Overall the rumors make the necron army sound very strong. With the rumored loss of army wide phaseout gone and not being squad based in a way this will make 3 monolith builds stronger as it takes out the weakness of being able to make the monolithes disappear by killing necron units, of course in objective based games you can't claim anything still if you just have monoliths left but....you will probably see more 3 monolith armies :(
I predict this codex will suffer from what the nid codex does to some extent. There will be a lot of really good things in elites and fast attack but in some way they will be very specialized. Many people will build armies based around repeats of elite and fast attack slots then have min troops, just because the elites and fast attacks will be that good. This will probably make the army seem weak because it will be meant to be played as a semi hordish robot undead army and people will buy them as elite small armies.
yakface wrote:17) In the new fluff it sounds like the C'Tan were mainly killed off by the Necrons (or something like that), so the C'Tan that you field in the game are just remaining shards of their power.
I'm okay with the second half, but I'm pissed beyond words at that first part. If they kill off the C'tan whats happens to nearly all Necron fluff? The servitude to ensalver gods? The beasts that are the C'tan, just 'die'? That's bs. Absolute bs. I hope that isn't the route Necrons are going to take.
The other changes here I can live with, disappointed with some of it, but it's bearable. The C'tan dying is absurd. First Pariahs, now the C'tan. What exactly is this Ward cretin hoping to do here? *NERD RAGE*
So what I'm wondering is how is Ward going to explain the Outsider and Void Dragon 'deaths' if one is floating away in a Dyson sphere and the other is locked on Mars.
Wait..Void Dragon dying, Mars loses tech. 40k story advancement!?!?!?!?!
Kurgash wrote:So what I'm wondering is how is Ward going to explain the Outsider and Void Dragon 'deaths' if one is floating away in a Dyson sphere and the other is locked on Mars.
Wait..Void Dragon dying, Mars loses tech. 40k story advancement!?!?!?!?!
Perhaps the tech on Mars is actually made by Jokaero, which is why GK can take them?
Again I shall stress that its merely a snippet of what the fluff and so we don't really know the true context, we have been given chunks of the army list and so can start to form some kind of idea of that but fluff wise we have next to no information so I wouldn't jump the gun yet!
yakface wrote:17) In the new fluff it sounds like the C'Tan were mainly killed off by the Necrons (or something like that), so the C'Tan that you field in the game are just remaining shards of their power.
I'm okay with the second half, but I'm pissed beyond words at that first part. If they kill off the C'tan whats happens to nearly all Necron fluff? The servitude to ensalver gods? The beasts that are the C'tan, just 'die'? That's bs. Absolute bs. I hope that isn't the route Necrons are going to take.
The other changes here I can live with, disappointed with some of it, but it's bearable. The C'tan dying is absurd. First Pariahs, now the C'tan. What exactly is this Ward cretin hoping to do here? *NERD RAGE*
I read it as something similar what happened to Khaine: formerly powerful being shattered to multitude of smaller fragments.
Personally I always thought that C'Tan on the battlefield was pretty stupid. They are supposed to be nearly godlike beings, why would they bother going to fight with some Guardsmen?
I would have much preferred a 700 point Forgeworld model for Apocalypse rather than a weakened "shard" in the Codex. Could have been stupidly awesome, but alack and alas, if these rumours are true.
If these rumors pan out, I'm deffinately selling off my necrons, SO not the direction I wanted the army to go in. Immortals changes are especially disheartening (they should get MORE badass and expensive, not chumpified!) and the changes in fluff sound just dreadful. I'll wait for the full codex before doing anything of course, rumors are rumors after all, but holy cow, GW is just absolutely destroying their current incarnation.
Sarge wrote:So my dudes are T4 4+ Sv and transports all 'round. So I'm playing a mech vet army again?
What, your Mech Vets are all T4, have WBB, Gauss Weapons, disintegrating armour? Can they teleport and actually possess some counter-assault too?
In short, no. Obviuosly. But from what I've read here they are certainly mored based on transportation by armored units than by teleporting, hence my comment.
Scarey Nerd wrote:I would have much preferred a 700 point Forgeworld model for Apocalypse rather than a weakened "shard" in the Codex. Could have been stupidly awesome, but alack and alas, if these rumours are true.
And who's to say there won't be a 700 point Forge World C'Tan model for Apocalypse?
Just because there's a 'weakened shard' in the Codex doesn't mean there can't be something bigger.
Look at the Bloodthirster in the generic Daemon Codex versus An'ggrath the Unbound from IA: Apocalypse.
I personally like the idea of a 'shard' being in the Codex. C'Tan by themselves being on the battlefield, in their full strength, just never really made much sense to me. It would be like if the Avatar of Khaine in the Eldar Codex were his full might manifested.
Scarey Nerd wrote:I would have much preferred a 700 point Forgeworld model for Apocalypse rather than a weakened "shard" in the Codex. Could have been stupidly awesome, but alack and alas, if these rumours are true.
And who's to say there won't be a 700 point Forge World C'Tan model for Apocalypse?
Just because there's a 'weakened shard' in the Codex doesn't mean there can't be something bigger.
Look at the Bloodthirster in the generic Daemon Codex versus An'ggrath the Unbound from IA: Apocalypse.
I personally like the idea of a 'shard' being in the Codex. C'Tan by themselves being on the battlefield, in their full strength, just never really made much sense to me. It would be like if the Avatar of Khaine in the Eldar Codex were his full might manifested.
That would be fine...but the Necrons "killing off" the C'tan kind of negates an actual C'tan appearing in Apoc, although you are right in that there is no reason stopping them from creating a greater deamon level "shard". I just think it's rediculous on the surface for the Necrons to be killing off the C'tan. I expected the C'tan to go away from the dex in their current form, but I expected more of an abandonment scenario. Again though, the devil is in the details, so who knows. Maybe Ward pulled it off with out it being too far fetched...
Dont meen to be a naysayer but it seems like we are now heading for space marines in robot costumes.
i mean just el like they just took all the feeling of my necron army and ripped it out and replaced it with stuff that mite be named other and look other but will work as all other marine armies does.
seriously sad to see it possibly play out this way.
Sarge wrote:So my dudes are T4 4+ Sv and transports all 'round. So I'm playing a mech vet army again?
What, your Mech Vets are all T4, have WBB, Gauss Weapons, disintegrating armour? Can they teleport and actually possess some counter-assault too?
In short, no. Obviuosly. But from what I've read here they are certainly mored based on transportation by armored units than by teleporting, hence my comment.
But a 4+ and potential (but no-where near as dedicated) transports mean that you're playing mech vet?! That's 2 similarities. That's it.
Ogard wrote:I have to say that i dislike most of this.
Dont meen to be a naysayer but it seems like we are now heading for space marines in robot costumes.
i mean just el like they just took all the feeling of my necron army and ripped it out and replaced it with stuff that mite be named other and look other but will work as all other marine armies does.
seriously sad to see it possibly play out this way.
regards
Ogard
They're getting less MeQ if anything. To me at least it looks like they're creating a whole new playstyle for Necrons, with units being recycled and coming back to life as well as being able to teleport/ actually move in safety and have heavy hitters dotted within the army. It sounds like their own playable IMHO and the 4+ is a symbol of this...
Mar wrote:Again I shall stress that its merely a snippet of what the fluff and so we don't really know the true context, we have been given chunks of the army list and so can start to form some kind of idea of that but fluff wise we have next to no information so I wouldn't jump the gun yet!
Exactly. I'm liking Mar judging by what has been said in this thread.
Pretty happy about the new rumors, yes I am sad my Immortals are not quite as good per model, but I am also glad that we are not marines! (well i guess immortals basically are...)
Lowering cost and giving some good CC support will go a long way to making them more playable.
Not being able to pull out of CC makes me sad, but it is just one tactic that will have to change.
blaktoof wrote:TBH these all sound like major improvements.
i get the feeling the tomb blade jetbikes will somehow be reaver jetbike rip offs.
Warriors going from a 3+ save to a 4+ save isnt that bad honestly. Considering the cost reduction they are getting and the new WBB thats a large buff. Most of the fire necrons took was either ignoring WBB by being ap 1-2 or double strength, which the new WBB reportedly ignores and they still get their save, albiet at 5+ instead of 4+.
Considering you are paying 33% less per model (from 18 to 12) they are also arguably tougher against small arms fire with the 4+ save over the 3+ save pointwise. You are going to fail on average 16% more wounds but considering you spent 33% less points if you look at the unit as a pool of points you are actually losing less points than if they were 18pts and 3+ save against small arms.
Overall the rumors make the necron army sound very strong. With the rumored loss of army wide phaseout gone and not being squad based in a way this will make 3 monolith builds stronger as it takes out the weakness of being able to make the monolithes disappear by killing necron units, of course in objective based games you can't claim anything still if you just have monoliths left but....you will probably see more 3 monolith armies :(
I predict this codex will suffer from what the nid codex does to some extent. There will be a lot of really good things in elites and fast attack but in some way they will be very specialized. Many people will build armies based around repeats of elite and fast attack slots then have min troops, just because the elites and fast attacks will be that good. This will probably make the army seem weak because it will be meant to be played as a semi hordish robot undead army and people will buy them as elite small armies.
yakface wrote: One of the other new Elite units is also CC oriented, but is very pricey points wise (but is S5/T5/3+save). This unit can wield a Warscythe, but they are not called Pariahs (no idea if that's what Pariahs have 'turned into' or not).
Well clearly Warscythe's are still in, I'm wondering if they'll have the same effect...
I doubt it (judging by the C'tan phase knife), but I really do hope so, even as a non-Necron player.
necrons, a 4+ save?? Man, they better make that a heck of a codex or I will travel to Nottingham personally and kill the guy who wrote it XD I only hope that Necrons, will still be Necrons but pls c'tan, don't let them have a 4+ save -.- that's sooo not necron!
yakface wrote: One of the other new Elite units is also CC oriented, but is very pricey points wise (but is S5/T5/3+save). This unit can wield a Warscythe, but they are not called Pariahs (no idea if that's what Pariahs have 'turned into' or not).
Well clearly Warscythe's are still in, I'm wondering if they'll have the same effect...
I doubt it (judging by the C'tan phase knife), but I really do hope so, even as a non-Necron player.
Honestly, as long as it at least counts as a power weapon, I'll be happy. That's something else that the necron army has severely lacked.
And I don't count tomb spyders because seriously, WS2 sucks and is highly unreliable. the tomb stalker is at least a step in the right direction.
RutgerMan wrote:necrons, a 4+ save?? Man, they better make that a heck of a codex or I will travel to Nottingham personally and kill the guy who wrote it XD I only hope that Necrons, will still be Necrons but pls c'tan, don't let them have a 4+ save -.- that's sooo not necron!
Let the sky keep falling!
A great many vocal Necron players for a long time have demanded they "stop being lumped in with Marines just because we have a 3+ save".
You don't anymore. You're now equivalent to the Tau or Marine Scouts with their 4+ save or Stormtroopers from the Guard Codex. It's the "Carapace" level of save. Not really anything to be upset about when that's your basic save for your Troops choices which are supposed to be receiving points drops and various upgrades to them alone, not to mention the army being overhauled.
Immortals are supposed to be retaining the 3+ save to represent their role as 'elite' troops.
I'm hoping Warscythes remain the way they are, I think it really adds that extra punch we need.
I'm curious if the Quantum shielding is going to be something like this:
Vehicle starts with AV 12, Open topped Quantum shielding adds the +2 armor, and the effects from living metal until it's first Pen/Glance, at that point it reverts to just a plain Av 12 Open topped.
I think that would be pretty balanced in a sense, and would really add some nice durability to the Vehicles, without being overly strong.
So Heavy Bolters/PsyCannons/Heavy Flamers are going to hurt them pretty bad. Some conclusions;
With cover saves added, Necrons are consistently more durable than Vanilla Marines.
Without cover saves, they are only less survivable at the AP 4 level.
In hand to hand, Necrons are consistently more durable than Vanilla Marines.
In the new fluff it sounds like the C'Tan were mainly killed off by the Necrons (or something like that), so the C'Tan that you field in the game are just remaining shards of their power.
Wait, what?
I hope this is in regards to the other C'Tan that were killed way in the past (absorbed mostly by the Nightbringer in the previous fluff IIRC) and not the 4 we know to still exist. Or something a bit more dramatic and cool then simply the Necrons killed them (something the Old ones themselves failed to do...)
RutgerMan wrote:necrons, a 4+ save?? Man, they better make that a heck of a codex or I will travel to Nottingham personally and kill the guy who wrote it XD I only hope that Necrons, will still be Necrons but pls c'tan, don't let them have a 4+ save -.- that's sooo not necron!
Let the sky keep falling!
A great many vocal Necron players for a long time have demanded they "stop being lumped in with Marines just because we have a 3+ save".
You don't anymore. You're now equivalent to the Tau or Marine Scouts with their 4+ save or Stormtroopers from the Guard Codex. It's the "Carapace" level of save. Not really anything to be upset about when that's your basic save for your Troops choices which are supposed to be receiving points drops and various upgrades to them alone, not to mention the army being overhauled.
Immortals are supposed to be retaining the 3+ save to represent their role as 'elite' troops.
I think the T5 and Assault weapons easily represented their role as "elites" in the current codex.
In the new fluff it sounds like the C'Tan were mainly killed off by the Necrons (or something like that), so the C'Tan that you field in the game are just remaining shards of their power.
Wait, what?
I hope this is in regards to the other C'Tan that were killed way in the past (absorbed mostly by the Nightbringer in the previous fluff IIRC) and not the 4 we know to still exist. Or something a bit more dramatic and cool then simply the Necrons killed them (something the Old ones themselves failed to do...)
Agreed. Otherwise there will be a whole new level of Nerdrage invented just for such an occasion. It will be worse than the Blood Angels, it will be worse than Draigo, it will require a full cleansing of the GW studio. All shall burn in holy fire. None shall be spared! (except for perhaps Rick Priestly and Jes Goodwin)
Well he says that the C'tan were "mainly" killed off. That phrase still leaves room for survivors. In the previous fluff, I recall several C'tan turning on thier brotheren and consuming them, with the Nightbringer, being tricked by the Deciever, being the first to do so. In this case, the C'tan were "mainly" killed off as well. Maybe, they are just tweeking the fluff to suggest that the surviving C'tan used their Necron servants to dispatch thier rival kin rather than through an all-u-can-eat C'tan buffet.
I'm just glad phase out is gone, didn't happen alot, but was something I would forget about at times and have it bite me in the glutes.
Not happy about dead star gods (other than that star-child god . . . .but that is just the chaos in me talking), I would like to have seen more fleshing out of the C'tan. Oh well . . . .
I can definitely live with 4+ save at 12 points per model!
In the new fluff it sounds like the C'Tan were mainly killed off by the Necrons (or something like that), so the C'Tan that you field in the game are just remaining shards of their power.
Wait, what?
I hope this is in regards to the other C'Tan that were killed way in the past (absorbed mostly by the Nightbringer in the previous fluff IIRC) and not the 4 we know to still exist. Or something a bit more dramatic and cool then simply the Necrons killed them (something the Old ones themselves failed to do...)
I have a feeling that something fairly rediculous will justify the killing off of the Nightbringer and Deciever. The Outsider and Void Dragon will essentially be retconned into not making into or out of their sleep (or simply be ignored all together). I really don't know how else he'll get around the whole Void Dragon/Ad Mech thing other than to somehow pretend it never existed.
Edit:
Well he says that the C'tan were "mainly" killed off. That phrase still leaves room for survivors. In the previous fluff, I recall several C'tan turning on thier brotheren and consuming them, with the Nightbringer, being tricked by the Deciever, being the first to do so. In this case, the C'tan were "mainly" killed off as well. Maybe, they are just tweeking the fluff to suggest that the surviving C'tan used their Necron servants to dispatch thier rival kin rather than through an all-u-can-eat C'tan buffet.
Good point. They could leave the Void Dragon alive as right now he has no influence really on the crons.
In the new fluff it sounds like the C'Tan were mainly killed off by the Necrons (or something like that), so the C'Tan that you field in the game are just remaining shards of their power.
Wait, what?
I hope this is in regards to the other C'Tan that were killed way in the past (absorbed mostly by the Nightbringer in the previous fluff IIRC) and not the 4 we know to still exist. Or something a bit more dramatic and cool then simply the Necrons killed them (something the Old ones themselves failed to do...)
I don't know, the idea of the fury of the Necrontyr at their metal prisons leading them to bind their masters with the scientific sorcery is kind of cool. It's not the direction I'd have preferred, but I can see how someone might like it. It's a pretty big retcon, but seeing as there aren't many Necron books in BL that even mention the C'Tan, I guess I could let it slide.
I'm definitely excited if these rumors come true. As far as GW "Squatting" the Pariahs I say, who cares? I've never liked the Pariahs and never had any use for them in any of my Necron lists when I played them. I dont see GW sweeping them under the carpet, they could be re-named for these Elite C'Tan choices as many of you have mentioned. I'm just glad Necrons are getting an overhaul because by the Ruinous Powers they need it so bad.
In the new fluff it sounds like the C'Tan were mainly killed off by the Necrons (or something like that), so the C'Tan that you field in the game are just remaining shards of their power.
Wait, what?
I hope this is in regards to the other C'Tan that were killed way in the past (absorbed mostly by the Nightbringer in the previous fluff IIRC) and not the 4 we know to still exist. Or something a bit more dramatic and cool then simply the Necrons killed them (something the Old ones themselves failed to do...)
I don't know, the idea of the fury of the Necrontyr at their metal prisons leading them to bind their masters with the scientific sorcery is kind of cool. It's not the direction I'd have preferred, but I can see how someone might like it. It's a pretty big retcon, but seeing as there aren't many Necron books in BL that even mention the C'Tan, I guess I could let it slide.
Not many; true. But as just one example, I'll go ahead and point out the brilliant little novel called Nightbringer.
Combined with the HH stuff on the Dragon, I can't see GW killing off "The Big Four".
Mr.Malevolent wrote:I'm definitely excited if these rumors come true. As far as GW "Squatting" the Pariahs I say, who cares? I've never liked the Pariahs and never had any use for them in any of my Necron lists when I played them. I dont see GW sweeping them under the carpet, they could be re-named for these Elite C'Tan choices as many of you have mentioned. I'm just glad Necrons are getting an overhaul because by the Ruinous Powers they need it so bad.
I never cared for thier fluff, but they provided a potentially great anti-psyker platform. I hope that is retained (and improved upon) somehow.
wyomingfox wrote:Well he says that the C'tan were "mainly" killed off. That phrase still leaves room for survivors. In the previous fluff, I recall several C'tan turning on thier brotheren and consuming them, with the Nightbringer, being tricked by the Deciever, being the first to do so. In this case, the C'tan were "mainly" killed off as well. Maybe, they are just tweeking the fluff to suggest that the surviving C'tan used their Necron servants to dispatch thier rival kin rather than through an all-u-can-eat C'tan buffet.
I like this theory.
The idea that someone suggested earlier of an almost rebellion against the C'tan linking with the 'crons apparent development of individuality and personality also makes some sense.
I'm not saying what I would rather happen, but both these theories make some sense at the very least...
To be honest, I've always thought that the C'tan would have used their Necrons as the harbingers of doom for their fellow C'tan, pitting them against eachother and trying to get to the other god. When one became over run, the other C'tan would come and fight him to the death, victor got all the Necrons still around. If he does the fluff similar to this, it'd allow for some special options for taking a certain Lord, maybe one dedicated to a certain still-living C'tan, such as special wargear or opening up the FOC to units that would be more populous in a Void Dragon army over a Nightbringer one. Still sad about the Pariahs though T..T
Hm, I've just had a thought. It would seem to me that their name is a combination of "Crypt" and "Teks" (ie Techs) - perhaps this is suggestive of their rules/fluff? Obviously we know they can join other units.. but maybe they can specialize in certain "areas" of technology.. You guys know what I'm talking about.
blaktoof wrote:TBH these all sound like major improvements.
i get the feeling the tomb blade jetbikes will somehow be reaver jetbike rip offs.
Warriors going from a 3+ save to a 4+ save isnt that bad honestly. Considering the cost reduction they are getting and the new WBB thats a large buff. Most of the fire necrons took was either ignoring WBB by being ap 1-2 or double strength, which the new WBB reportedly ignores and they still get their save, albiet at 5+ instead of 4+.
Considering you are paying 33% less per model (from 18 to 12) they are also arguably tougher against small arms fire with the 4+ save over the 3+ save pointwise. You are going to fail on average 16% more wounds but considering you spent 33% less points if you look at the unit as a pool of points you are actually losing less points than if they were 18pts and 3+ save against small arms.
Overall the rumors make the necron army sound very strong. With the rumored loss of army wide phaseout gone and not being squad based in a way this will make 3 monolith builds stronger as it takes out the weakness of being able to make the monolithes disappear by killing necron units, of course in objective based games you can't claim anything still if you just have monoliths left but....you will probably see more 3 monolith armies :(
I predict this codex will suffer from what the nid codex does to some extent. There will be a lot of really good things in elites and fast attack but in some way they will be very specialized. Many people will build armies based around repeats of elite and fast attack slots then have min troops, just because the elites and fast attacks will be that good. This will probably make the army seem weak because it will be meant to be played as a semi hordish robot undead army and people will buy them as elite small armies.
Going to have to disagree on this sounding like improvements. 3+ save to 4+, 16.6% more casualties from successful wounds sounds like it gets worse, even if there is a price reduction. And the new WBB is not a net benefit, at best it's a wash. Sure you get to use it on everything, but honestly, I always did. I kept res orbs on the table, near the units, for most of the people I've met who played necrons, the exceptions to WBB never really came up as they did similar. And the only thing that ignored WBB without the resorb were close combat armor ignoring weapons and double T weapons - not the AP1 or 2 like you thought. So WBB is getting a worse value, no idea if you get a second chance at it, but you don't have to be quite so clumped up anymore. A wash at best.
For the lower cost, that's great. 60 points less for a squad of 10, good. I wonder though, if that cryptek and his res orb added to the squad so you get back to a 4+ WBB is going to be about 60 pts?
Someone else mentioned that the extra numbers would help out with surviving combat as you now had more attacks to direct back, making it easier to not get swept. Only true to a limited extent. The morale test is off the difference you lost by, so if you don't have a way to come close to the numbers of unsaved wounds it's not going to matter much, or if you don't get a higher I so you can get away. 7 attacks back against a marine squad instead of 4 to bounce off there armor isn't going to make much difference.
Until I hear otherwise, I'm going to assume the bit about Necrons killing off C'Tan doesn't apply to the surviving 4. In fact, i'm gonna lump it into the current fluff saying that the C'Tan turned on each other. It's easy to assume their Necron servants helped out a bit. Maybe some Necrons, unhappy with their ascended metal forms, rebelled against their C'Tan masters while all the chaos ensued.
Basically, i'm hoping for additional, character-filled detail, not a 360 degree retcon
Going to have to disagree on this sounding like improvements. 3+ save to 4+, 16.6% more casualties from successful wounds sounds like it gets worse, even if there is a price reduction. And the new WBB is not a net benefit, at best it's a wash. Sure you get to use it on everything, but honestly, I always did. I kept res orbs on the table, near the units, for most of the people I've met who played necrons, the exceptions to WBB never really came up as they did similar. And the only thing that ignored WBB without the resorb were close combat armor ignoring weapons and double T weapons - not the AP1 or 2 like you thought. So WBB is getting a worse value, no idea if you get a second chance at it, but you don't have to be quite so clumped up anymore. A wash at best.
For the lower cost, that's great. 60 points less for a squad of 10, good. I wonder though, if that cryptek and his res orb added to the squad so you get back to a 4+ WBB is going to be about 60 pts?
Someone else mentioned that the extra numbers would help out with surviving combat as you now had more attacks to direct back, making it easier to not get swept. Only true to a limited extent. The morale test is off the difference you lost by, so if you don't have a way to come close to the numbers of unsaved wounds it's not going to matter much, or if you don't get a higher I so you can get away. 7 attacks back against a marine squad instead of 4 to bounce off there armor isn't going to make much difference.
Provided the rumors are correct and I understand them;
With any cover saves---Necrons are more durable than Vanilla Marines
Without cover saves---Necrons are less durable only against AP4 Weaponry----AP 1,2 and 3 the Necrons are more durable
In hand to hand, Necrons are more durable than Vanilla Marines (Not taking ATSKNF into account)
At the c'tan being killed but still usable, my reaction to that rumor: "ward killed off the sisters and c'tan. Now they are both teamming up to sucker punch him." But seriously, this is why fluff out of contex is so bad. It could totally be only a couple c'tan died. Heck we don't even know how the c'tan work as elites either. So idk if jumping that gun is wise.
dancingcricket wrote:
Someone else mentioned that the extra numbers would help out with surviving combat as you now had more attacks to direct back, making it easier to not get swept. Only true to a limited extent. The morale test is off the difference you lost by, so if you don't have a way to come close to the numbers of unsaved wounds it's not going to matter much, or if you don't get a higher I so you can get away. 7 attacks back against a marine squad instead of 4 to bounce off there armor isn't going to make much difference.
I think you might be referencing me, in which case I don't think they are more survivable because of extra attacks, its more just I can live with them being destroyed. Before my warriors did next to nothing the entire game (reserved for most of it, running away the rest) because I was worried about phase out. With that being removed, I do not have to worry as much about my 120 point troop choice being swept (though it is now easier). Sure I do not want to loose the troops, but I can definitely live with it.
Another way of looking at it (though obviously flawed) is that instead of 360 points for two squads of 10, i can have 3 squads of ten. Although each squad is less resilient to sweeping advance (4+ save being worse than 3+) you have to do it 3 times instead of 2.
I am cautiously unoptimistic of these new rumors. WBB dropping down to a 5+, followed by armor dropping down to a 4+? I'm not sure I like the sound of that. Some of the stuff sounds nice, some of it not so much, so I'll wait and worry until the book comes out.
I think with the introduction of open topped transports, the chances of your Necrons standing around to get swept in close combat is lessened a lot as well.
In all reality, I like the direction it's going, primarily with phase out being gone.
With the cryptek holdin a VoD and a res orb and ten 17-point immortals with assault weaps..... t4 s3+ 4+++++ and teleporting every movement phase? AND THEY ARE TROOPS? why you pplz complaining? necrons are not gonna be horde. I'm pretty sure every1 is gonna play with the new AWSOME units and forget about the old warriors ... AWSOME rumorz bring us moar please?
necr0n wrote:With the cryptek holdin a VoD and a res orb and ten 17-point immortals with assault weaps..... t4 s3+ 4+++++ and teleporting every movement phase? AND THEY ARE TROOPS? why you pplz complaining? necrons are not gonna be horde. I'm pretty sure every1 is gonna play with the new AWSOME units and forget about the old warriors ... AWSOME rumorz bring us moar please?
I might be projecting my own worry here, but I think people are saddened by the idea that Warriors - one of the only unchanged sculpts reportedly - aren't even gonna be useful, meaning that an entire army needs to be bought, rather than updating some models.
AgeOfEgos wrote:To be honest, I've always hated the C'Tan fluff. It seemed wedged into the 40kverse as a stopgap/hole filler...so I wouldn't mind seeing it die.
Considering it's made an appearance in the HH books though, guess I'll have to shut up and like it.
I liked it, but a major tenet of getting into the 40k setting, to me, is that everything is turned up to 11. Every Codex is completely and totally devoted to showing how awesome the featured army is. The Necrons were big players a few epochs ago and they're scary now, but Chaos has spent all that time getting smarter, tougher, and nastier.
necr0n wrote:With the cryptek holdin a VoD and a res orb and ten 17-point immortals with assault weaps..... t4 s3+ 4+++++ and teleporting every movement phase? AND THEY ARE TROOPS? why you pplz complaining? necrons are not gonna be horde. I'm pretty sure every1 is gonna play with the new AWSOME units and forget about the old warriors ... AWSOME rumorz bring us moar please?
I might be projecting my own worry here, but I think people are saddened by the idea that Warriors - one of the only unchanged sculpts reportedly - aren't even gonna be useful, meaning that an entire army needs to be bought, rather than updating some models.
I can see what ur saying, i got 51 warriors myself(i know its not a lot but im a relatively new player) but still warriors wont be useless, I see it more like a buff as well. Just get 40 warriors on the table-top(two 20-model squads) with their RO's inside vehiles or even VoD. I think you can see my point. Plus with the new elites and the units in general (and ofc havin Phase Out gone) I dont think any enemy will focus on our warriors ^_^
I don't know. I hope warriors go down to 5-20 per unit so that I can take one or two squads and sit in cover on an objective. I mean t4, with 4/3+ cover save (assuming they hide their heads ) and a 5+wbb save means its going to take a lot to kill them outside of assault. Especially for 60 pts!
Now if they stay at 10 minimum, then I might just go with the rumored immortals. For 5 extra ppm you get (assuming weapons are the same) +1 armor save and a much better weapon. And the squad is only 85 points instead of 120.
If i can VoD them last turn to grab/contest my opponents objectives for cheap, then that is even better.
Actually now that you mention it, it is pretty funny Immortals are essentially equivalent to our old warriors, bar any changes in weapons (rules and actual guns). So for 1 less point you have the same statline and wbb changed from a 4+ with some ways around it, to a 5+ with almost no way around it.
I love the idea of an army of T4 models which aren't 3+. It'll add an entirely new element to the metagame. Plasma and melta becomes less important, meaning lists everywhere will have to be reconsidered.
The Good: Necron wargear still being around, and available to the lesser Lords.
The Bad: The Necrons are supposed to be better than Space Marines, man-for-bot. Apparently I was right, and Ward can't cope with the idea of anyone being better than his precious Ultramarines.
No longer being able to teleport Necrons out of combat.
Leadership as an Achilles' heel. They were immune once. Immune! It's like saying the Avatar's greatest weakness should be flamethrowers.
The Other: Does the retcon on the C'tan mean they're no longer shoved into everyone else's backstory? Or does it mean Ward's got N times more C'tan to ruin the fluff with?
Return of Scarab armour disruption is good, but I'm not yet convinced by the implementation.
AlexHolker wrote:
The Bad: The Necrons are supposed to be better than Space Marines, man-for-bot. Apparently I was right, and Ward can't cope with the idea of anyone being better than his precious Ultramarines.
Where are you getting this? If you are talking about Destroyers or Wraiths then I agree. If you're talking about the basic Necron then they were never like that.
Yeah, I think that's a good point and pretty accurate. I think the alteration/different gauges of fluff are also tied to how historical they are. Like the art, 40k has aged and morphed into something that takes itself much more serious----and the fluff can represent that at times.
Balance wrote:
AgeOfEgos wrote:To be honest, I've always hated the C'Tan fluff. It seemed wedged into the 40kverse as a stopgap/hole filler...so I wouldn't mind seeing it die.
Considering it's made an appearance in the HH books though, guess I'll have to shut up and like it.
I liked it, but a major tenet of getting into the 40k setting, to me, is that everything is turned up to 11. Every Codex is completely and totally devoted to showing how awesome the featured army is. The Necrons were big players a few epochs ago and they're scary now, but Chaos has spent all that time getting smarter, tougher, and nastier.
AlexHolker wrote:The Bad: The Necrons are supposed to be better than Space Marines, man-for-bot. Apparently I was right, and Ward can't cope with the idea of anyone being better than his precious Ultramarines.
Where are you getting this? If you are talking about Destroyers or Wraiths then I agree. If you're talking about the basic Necron then they were never like that.
When they were first created, Necron Warriors were like Space Marines with better toughness, better armour, WBB, better AP/anti-armour gun and were immune to power weapons and all morale effects. Their downsides were their cost (50% more expensive than a space marine), lack of upgrades, and low Initiative.
Anyway, you can't have both Legions and Super Elites. And, funnily enough, we have Legion Elites now, despite the paradox. The 3+ 5++ Warriors are exactly as durable as Space Marines. And for 12 points? What the heck do you want?
If the Necrons rebel against the C'tan, it pretty much kills what I liked about the fluff before. They will no longer be related to the army I used to like...
That said, I'm sure playing this new shooty-Ork army could be fun.
tiekwando wrote:Actually now that you mention it, it is pretty funny Immortals are essentially equivalent to our old warriors, bar any changes in weapons (rules and actual guns). So for 1 less point you have the same statline and wbb changed from a 4+ with some ways around it, to a 5+ with almost no way around it.
Actually, their gun is significantly better than the Warriors gun. Unfortunately, Necrons would still appear to have no way to kill plague marines or Thunderwolves with what Yakface has rumored of their shooting so far.
If you're talking fluff wise, necrons aren't all that stronger than a marine, yes they are robots, but from any story I have read, a bolter can do some damage to them. What makes necrons scary is their ability to get back up after taking a shot to the head or an even more grievous wound, and that they do this, slowly advancing on their target. And even though I am a marine player, I welcome the supposed drop in their armor save, not because it makes them worse, but because to me it is nice to have other armies that don't feel like i'm playing just another marine army.
TheMostSlyFox wrote:ANOTHER Matt Ward 'super army'? ...
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God I hope this post gets deleted.
Agreed, it'd be nice if we could just discuss the rumors in a reasonable fashion, without this subject coming up every page.
Anyway, My biggest concern now, is how large the initial release is going to be. Are we going to be talking Dark Eldar Size? with 7 kits initially, and a second wave shortly after?
I hope Yakface can continue to keep us updated, It's been very considerate of him to keep us informed like this. I can't wait for the next update.
On topic. I've been reading the comments and new information and as someone who always wanted to play Necrons, but never thought they had enough variety, most of the changes make me happy.
On them "killing the C'Tan" perhaps it's more of a trapping or escape of he C'tan powers, something like some of the lords "waking up" and realizing that their people, though immortal, have become nothing more than slaves to the C'tan and create steps to escape their masters or even trap them to be used as a former shell.
Aye I have been impressed with the lack of hate for Matt Ward over the last few pages despite the fact that whatever he writes is actually heavily directed by what GW wants the fluff/rules to be. I think the sort of information I would be interested in would be what plastics are out with the codex to be fair, if I had to guess I would say it would be similar amounts to Dark Eldar I would argue (for me at least) that a decent and viable amount was produced and hopefully they saw the success of that and understood maybe something similar should be done? Maybe I am wish listing now but it feels logical to me.
IIRC Kroothawk was saying that Immortals and mostly new stuff is in the 1st wave, whilst Warriors (with assorted coloured rods, possibly correlating to c'tan) are in the 2nd wave.
Some have said that they could be a DE sized release and I even heard someone briefly mention possibly the 1st resin miniatures.
Kroot's the man in the know however (and Yak of course)...
Miraclefish wrote:I love the idea of an army of T4 models which aren't 3+. It'll add an entirely new element to the metagame. Plasma and melta becomes less important, meaning lists everywhere will have to be reconsidered.
Orks. They are T 4, have open topped transports and aren't 3+ ....
Not so new Just saying
That said i would like the current meta shaken up (or down), and the same old netlists every game get tedious
I'm just hoping that they didn't nerfbat everything that was good in the current codex to force you to buy the new shiny stuff that won't be released for a year
I can't save that long, and would have long since blown it on other models
Anyway, My biggest concern now, is how large the initial release is going to be. Are we going to be talking Dark Eldar Size? with 7 kits initially, and a second wave shortly after?
I hope Yakface can continue to keep us updated, It's been very considerate of him to keep us informed like this. I can't wait for the next update.
Agreed. Let's hope for a level of support along the lines of DE...and hope they don't end up being supported like Nids.
EDIT: And yeah...that initial release is going to be about as important in my decision to carry on with the army as how the actual dex lays out. I'm not going to put myself in the same position as my Nids where a year and a half later, I'm still waiting on models for some of the most common units/upgrades.
I honestly like the sound of a tough and relatively heavily-armored troop base. A S4 T4 4+ army is something you honestly don't see much of around. They have the physical characteristics of Space Marines, but a slightly weaker armor save. That doesn't change the fact that the basic Necron troop is still most definitely heavy infantry. They're just not as uber-elite as Space Marines anymore. In game terms, I like this. It makes them more unique without making them feel like an entirely different army.
I think the change in saves, WBB, and point cost might actually work. It lets you play a more horde-ish phalanx of doom rather than a few groups of super soldiers. Fluffwise I think 3+ saves 4+WBB and 12 points would make sense (look at the current codex cover, that's a lot of dudes!) But for balance reasons you cant have a horde army thats also elite. This is a nice balance that mixes durability with an unending tide of deathless warriors.
As for the C'tan here is my theory: We know the big 4 ate or destroyed their other bretheren. I think the new fluff just has the 4 current C'tan use their Necron armies to kill their rivals. The new elite choice we're getting are the rival C'tan that were enslaved by the big 4. They were broken down into shards of their former selves and made to serve the big 4 and their Necron servants. So the named C'tan should still be around.
Overall this new batch of rumours makes me feel a little happier after the first set, which were somewhat dissapointing IMO.
Problem 1: Necron players already own a lot of Warriors. Problem 2: The Necron Warrior box will not be recut as the return on investment would not be very high, so making the mould isn't worth it, so GW can't entice existing players with a new Warrior model.
Solution 1: Make Necron Warriors cheaper and weaker so you need more of them. Existing Necron players will need to buy more. Solution 2: Make Scarabs even better than they are now. You can only get them in Warrior boxes, so existing Necron players will want to buy more.
Good to see GW once again starting (and ending) with how they can sell more models rather than making a better game...
H.B.M.C. wrote:Problem 1: Necron players already own a lot of Warriors.
Problem 2: The Necron Warrior box will not be remade as the return on investment would not be very high, so making the mould isn't worth it, so GW can't entice existing players with a new Warrior model.
Solution 1: Make Necron Warriors cheaper and weaker so you need more of them. Existing Necron players will need to buy more.
Solution 2: Make Scarabs even better than they are now. You can only get them in Warrior boxes, so existing Necron players will want to buy more.
Good to see GW once again starting (and ending) with how they can sell more models rather than making a better game...
I've just got rid of my Necrons (bar the Monoliths) in preps for the new release and new models. The current Necrons Warriors are good, but I want a more refined and look, new models are always good. I'm hoping they go in the direction of the Fall of Damnos cover, it's a fresh look, yet not to unlike the current ones. Old players don't HAVE to buy the new models unless they want to increase their army size.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Problem 1: Necron players already own a lot of Warriors.
Problem 2: The Necron Warrior box will not be recut as the return on investment would not be very high, so making the mould isn't worth it, so GW can't entice existing players with a new Warrior model.
Solution 1: Make Necron Warriors cheaper and weaker so you need more of them. Existing Necron players will need to buy more.
Solution 2: Make Scarabs even better than they are now. You can only get them in Warrior boxes, so existing Necron players will want to buy more.
Good to see GW once again starting (and ending) with how they can sell more models rather than making a better game...
Actually, judging from what we know so far, I think they've achieved both (see Asimo's point above). Even then, being able to field Immortals as troops would then contradict the need to get more warriors as you can use Immortals instead...
Holy_doctrine wrote:Frighteningly enough, these changes make me WANT to play the necrons.
Talk to me in september. I very seriously may have a necron army to sell if this pans out as true. All of this just sounds like they got beaten with the nerf hammer just so they can sell some transports to keep our new flimsy warriors from being eaten alive by heavy bolters and psi-ammo.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Problem 1: Necron players already own a lot of Warriors.
Problem 2: The Necron Warrior box will not be recut as the return on investment would not be very high, so making the mould isn't worth it, so GW can't entice existing players with a new Warrior model.
Solution 1: Make Necron Warriors cheaper and weaker so you need more of them. Existing Necron players will need to buy more.
Solution 2: Make Scarabs even better than they are now. You can only get them in Warrior boxes, so existing Necron players will want to buy more.
Good to see GW once again starting (and ending) with how they can sell more models rather than making a better game...
Holy_doctrine wrote:Frighteningly enough, these changes make me WANT to play the necrons.
Talk to me in september. I very seriously may have a necron army to sell if this pans out as true. All of this just sounds like they got beaten with the nerf hammer just so they can sell some transports to keep our new flimsy warriors from being eaten alive by heavy bolters and psi-ammo.
I'll take you up on that. And while they are worse per model I think they got better for the points. I would be willing to give up 6 points to get a 4+ save and 5+ wbb (that seems to have a built in res orb)
H.B.M.C. wrote:Problem 1: Necron players already own a lot of Warriors.
Problem 2: The Necron Warrior box will not be recut as the return on investment would not be very high, so making the mould isn't worth it, so GW can't entice existing players with a new Warrior model.
Solution 1: Make Necron Warriors cheaper and weaker so you need more of them. Existing Necron players will need to buy more.
Solution 2: Make Scarabs even better than they are now. You can only get them in Warrior boxes, so existing Necron players will want to buy more.
Good to see GW once again starting (and ending) with how they can sell more models rather than making a better game...
Meh, I'm perfectly fine with this as I've got 60 warriors and 20 scarabs as it stands now. From the sound of it, that will be plenty. New sculpts don't do much for me as I like the current ones. My problem is if warriors end up almost as useless as they are now. Being cheaper, more mobile through transports or whatever means, and able to function (to some degree) unsupported will help quite a bit in getting them out of useless status. Being a delivery system for some nasty model like the Crypteks are looking to be will help even more. I don't like the transition to being as weak or weaker than marines, but whatever. I can live with that if it means I'm enticed to actually field them with a purpose other than simply being required to.
Edit: Although I do agree with what you are saying on other models, the biggest example being Destroyers.
So immortals will now come in a box of 10 for $33?
If they keep the same price $15 per, I'm calling BS.
It will be just like when they couldn't sell daemon models until: Codex: Super Daemons came out.
I also don't understand sweeping robots. I've played Necrons for a long time, and was miffed about having to actually take leadership tests last go round.
I will reserve overall judgement for when we actually get to see the codex, so I'll throw my color as curiously pessimistic.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Problem 1: Necron players already own a lot of Warriors.
Problem 2: The Necron Warrior box will not be recut as the return on investment would not be very high, so making the mould isn't worth it, so GW can't entice existing players with a new Warrior model.
Solution 1: Make Necron Warriors cheaper and weaker so you need more of them. Existing Necron players will need to buy more.
Solution 2: Make Scarabs even better than they are now. You can only get them in Warrior boxes, so existing Necron players will want to buy more.
Good to see GW once again starting (and ending) with how they can sell more models rather than making a better game...
Or perhaps they finally decided to make good on the basic concept of zombie undead robots in the way they always should have been?
Perhaps sometimes needing more models can actually result in a better game?
Or maybe even Necron players can use the existing they models they have and since they cost less points now, they'll have room in the army to field some of the (desperately needed) new variety of units?
But that requires players to buy more models and anything that does that is bad for the game by definition of course (and yes, that was sarcasm).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Uriels_Flame wrote:
I also don't understand sweeping robots. I've played Necrons for a long time, and was miffed about having to actually take leadership tests last go round.
The unit phases out when they realize they're getting their butt handed to them in CC? Robots of all creatures should be able to process when its time to get the heck out of dodge, and the fluff behind them being to teleport out of battle when needed gives them the excuse to disappear off a battlefield when they get swept.
To every one complaing that warriors arent as elite as they used to be model for model. Why dont you just use immortals they are better then warriors are now and cost less.
People need to quit bitching wait for the codex to come out play a test game and see for yourself how the new necrons work instead of seeing rumors and automatically saying they got nerfed.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Problem 1: Necron players already own a lot of Warriors.
Problem 2: The Necron Warrior box will not be recut as the return on investment would not be very high, so making the mould isn't worth it, so GW can't entice existing players with a new Warrior model.
Solution 1: Make Necron Warriors cheaper and weaker so you need more of them. Existing Necron players will need to buy more.
Solution 2: Make Scarabs even better than they are now. You can only get them in Warrior boxes, so existing Necron players will want to buy more.
Good to see GW once again starting (and ending) with how they can sell more models rather than making a better game...
Or perhaps they finally decided to make good on the basic concept of zombie undead robots in the way they always should have been?
Perhaps sometimes needing more models can actually result in a better game?
Or maybe even Necron players can use the existing they models they have and since they cost less points now, they'll have room in the army to field some of the (desperately needed) new variety of units?
But that requires players to buy more models and anything that does that is bad for the game by definition of course.
Agree to a point. In the case of warriors, the change (from the sound of it) does make for a better game and is pretty welcome. The changes to destroyers sound like a nerf, the only purpose I can see being to sell the new jetbike models. On scarabs, the trade from jetbike movement to beast/cavalry movement is a nerf in my eyes as well (although balanced by access to the new WBB rule)...also there is no mention of the existance/removal/change of disruption fields, which if the fields are gone, they take a major hit as well.
Again...just have to see the dex to really be able to make a fair judgement.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Problem 1: Necron players already own a lot of Warriors.
Problem 2: The Necron Warrior box will not be recut as the return on investment would not be very high, so making the mould isn't worth it, so GW can't entice existing players with a new Warrior model.
Solution 1: Make Necron Warriors cheaper and weaker so you need more of them. Existing Necron players will need to buy more.
Solution 2: Make Scarabs even better than they are now. You can only get them in Warrior boxes, so existing Necron players will want to buy more.
Good to see GW once again starting (and ending) with how they can sell more models rather than making a better game...
Or perhaps they finally decided to make good on the basic concept of zombie undead robots in the way they always should have been?
Perhaps sometimes needing more models can actually result in a better game?
Or maybe even Necron players can use the existing they models they have and since they cost less points now, they'll have room in the army to field some of the (desperately needed) new variety of units?
But that requires players to buy more models and anything that does that is bad for the game by definition of course.
Agree to a point. In the case of warriors, the change (from the sound of it) does make for a better game and is pretty welcome. The changes to destroyers sound like a nerf, the only purpose I can see being to sell the new jetbike models. On scarabs, the trade from jetbike movement to beast/cavalry movement is a nerf in my eyes as well...also there is no mention of the existance/removal/change of disruption fields, which if the fields are gone, they take a major hit as well.
Again...just have to see the dex to really be able to make a fair judgement.
I definitely agree with Yaks post. I'm not too sure about the changes to Destroyers either...
Personally, I've never been able to envisage destroyers or scarabs moving to the speeds that Jetbike (read: turboboost) suggests they do. So long as the Destroyers weapon is an Assault Weapon, then they should be fine IMHO. I don't think scarabs have lost too much, if anything, from beasts. As I said however, this is partially because I can't imagine Necrons moving at such [turbo boost] speeds...
If destroyers are (assault weapon) jump infantry, then this would help differentiate them from the new jetbike unit. I think with destroyers it all really depends on how their gun's changed...
I think scarabs got the biggest boost of all. A squad of 5 scarabs could potentially destroy a vehicle that didn't move the previous turn... in one assault.
Farmer wrote:People need to quit bitching wait for the codex to come out play a test game and see for yourself how the new necrons work instead of seeing rumors and automatically saying they got nerfed.
Not bitching about the nerfs: The point about what $$$ are going to be in relation to point costs/game effectiveness is the complaint I have.
Especially if the changes to Warriors/Immortals is true.
That puts them on par for Scout/Marine = which I feel should translate to price changes as well.
ashikenshin wrote:I think scarabs got the biggest boost of all. A squad of 5 scarabs could potentially destroy a vehicle that didn't move the previous turn... in one assault.
Actually, just reread the scarabs rumor and apparently I missed the vehicle thing...nevermind what I said about disruption fields I still dislike the movement change. Until you get in charge range, you are still plodding along at 6" + d6" a turn. Though it will be nice though to see a swarm model in the game that people actually might fear.
Automatically Appended Next Post: What are people's thoughts on using old and new Immortals? I have a unit of ten now and would probably add another unit of 10 new ones. how much of a fit would people throw over having both on the board when they will (probably) have two different base sizes?
necr0n wrote:With the cryptek holdin a VoD and a res orb and ten 17-point immortals with assault weaps..... t4 s3+ 4+++++ and teleporting every movement phase? AND THEY ARE TROOPS? why you pplz complaining? necrons are not gonna be horde. I'm pretty sure every1 is gonna play with the new AWSOME units and forget about the old warriors ... AWSOME rumorz bring us moar please?
I might be projecting my own worry here, but I think people are saddened by the idea that Warriors - one of the only unchanged sculpts reportedly - aren't even gonna be useful, meaning that an entire army needs to be bought, rather than updating some models.
Aren't useful? Kinda like how neophytes aren't useful in BT armies?
Of COURSE warriors will be useful. They're cheaper and almost as resilient so you can field more of them as a meat shield for your tougher guys. Or just transport em and have them shoot the crap out of everything from the open top vehicles.
ashikenshin wrote:I think scarabs got the biggest boost of all. A squad of 5 scarabs could potentially destroy a vehicle that didn't move the previous turn... in one assault.
Actually, just reread the scarabs rumor and apparently I missed the vehicle thing...nevermind what I said about disruption fields I still dislike the movement change. Until you get in charge range, you are still plodding along at 6" + d6" a turn. Though it will be nice though to see a swarm model in the game that people actually might fear.
Automatically Appended Next Post: What are people's thoughts on using old and new Immortals? I have a unit of ten now and would probably add another unit of 10 new ones. how much of a fit would people throw over having both on the board when they will (probably) have two different base sizes?
I would say it would depend on the individual person. That's understandable right after release, but I think after a prolonged amount of time, it's either time to rebase them, or get some new models.
ashikenshin wrote:I think scarabs got the biggest boost of all. A squad of 5 scarabs could potentially destroy a vehicle that didn't move the previous turn... in one assault.
Actually, just reread the scarabs rumor and apparently I missed the vehicle thing...nevermind what I said about disruption fields I still dislike the movement change. Until you get in charge range, you are still plodding along at 6" + d6" a turn. Though it will be nice though to see a swarm model in the game that people actually might fear.
Automatically Appended Next Post: What are people's thoughts on using old and new Immortals? I have a unit of ten now and would probably add another unit of 10 new ones. how much of a fit would people throw over having both on the board when they will (probably) have two different base sizes?
I would say it would depend on the individual person. That's understandable right after release, but I think after a prolonged amount of time, it's either time to rebase them, or get some new models.
I wouldn't have a problem rebasing them, I'm just concerned about some beardy player trying to call them out as illegal since they wouldn't be on the bases they came with. Have to see what the new ones look like, but I really like my current ones.
Thanks Yakface for the rumors. If they're even somewhat true, I'm going to be one happy robot overlord. Really looking forward to dusting off my 2nd ed Crons and putting the smackdown on my oponents.
Maelstrom808 wrote:I have a unit of ten now and would probably add another unit of 10 new ones. how much of a fit would people throw over having both on the board when they will (probably) have two different base sizes?
I have 10 of the old 2nd edition Immortals and, depending on how cool the new Immortals look, will either be rebasing them or using them for other things in the Codex.
ashikenshin wrote:I think scarabs got the biggest boost of all. A squad of 5 scarabs could potentially destroy a vehicle that didn't move the previous turn... in one assault.
Actually, just reread the scarabs rumor and apparently I missed the vehicle thing...nevermind what I said about disruption fields I still dislike the movement change. Until you get in charge range, you are still plodding along at 6" + d6" a turn. Though it will be nice though to see a swarm model in the game that people actually might fear.
Automatically Appended Next Post: What are people's thoughts on using old and new Immortals? I have a unit of ten now and would probably add another unit of 10 new ones. how much of a fit would people throw over having both on the board when they will (probably) have two different base sizes?
I would say it would depend on the individual person. That's understandable right after release, but I think after a prolonged amount of time, it's either time to rebase them, or get some new models.
I wouldn't have a problem rebasing them, I'm just concerned about some beardy player trying to call them out as illegal since they wouldn't be on the bases they came with. Have to see what the new ones look like, but I really like my current ones.
Well, I wouldn't call the player beardy since technically it is against the rules, and will really depend on the player. I'd say it'd be a no no for any tournaments as well. You know your local gaming scene better than anyone, and should know the people you could test with.
AgeOfEgos wrote:Provided the rumors are correct and I understand them;
With any cover saves---Necrons are more durable than Vanilla Marines
Without cover saves---Necrons are less durable only against AP4 Weaponry----AP 1,2 and 3 the Necrons are more durable
In hand to hand, Necrons are more durable than Vanilla Marines (Not taking ATSKNF into account)
With Cover saves - Necrons will be just as durable as marines against ap4 or worse, and more durable against ap3 or better
Without cover saves, Necrons will be just as durable as marines against ap5 or worse weaponry, less durable against ap4, and more durable against ap3 or better
In hand to hand - necrons will be as durable as vanilla marines, not taking SA/ATSKNF into account, but only after the WBB, provided there are no incoming power weapon, rending, or MC attacks, with those, Necrons will be more durable, provided they dont get swept.
However -
With cover saves, necrons will be less durable than they are currently
Without cover saves, necrons will be less durable than they are now
In hand to hand - necrons will be less durable than they are now, not taking power weapons and such into account.
tiekwando wrote:Except for grey knights, who will love our 4+ save models (psyfilmen, psycannons...)
On the note of GK, I'm a bit concerned with the VoD, if it's deepstrike, warp quake is going to be a serious pain in the neck. Seriously hoping it's more like GK's personal teleporters (but usable every round) and less like VoD currently with the deepstrike rule, particularly if your not going to be able to leave combat with it. Take it from a Tzeentch Daemon player, even with ranged weapons, deepstriking is dangerous.
On the scarabs becoming beasts as opposed to swarms, well that does 2 things. 1) It keeps them from getting to opposing vehicles quickly. Letting IG shoot at you longer, or letting the Valks get away. 2) No more 2+ cover save as you move across the table for being a turbo-boosting swarm. I think someone decided that it'd be bad form for your swarms to shrug off demolisher rounds.
ashikenshin wrote:I think scarabs got the biggest boost of all. A squad of 5 scarabs could potentially destroy a vehicle that didn't move the previous turn... in one assault.
If they still have 3 attacks.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maelstrom808 wrote:
ashikenshin wrote:I think scarabs got the biggest boost of all. A squad of 5 scarabs could potentially destroy a vehicle that didn't move the previous turn... in one assault.
Actually, just reread the scarabs rumor and apparently I missed the vehicle thing...nevermind what I said about disruption fields I still dislike the movement change. Until you get in charge range, you are still plodding along at 6" + d6" a turn. Though it will be nice though to see a swarm model in the game that people actually might fear.
Automatically Appended Next Post: What are people's thoughts on using old and new Immortals? I have a unit of ten now and would probably add another unit of 10 new ones. how much of a fit would people throw over having both on the board when they will (probably) have two different base sizes?
Not to mention that they get WBB as well now. Also remembering that you can't think they're exactly the same as they are now with just some additions. I'm sure they're getting a stats change and other stuff too.
dancingcricket wrote:
However -
With cover saves, necrons will be less durable than they are currently
Without cover saves, necrons will be less durable than they are now
In hand to hand - necrons will be less durable than they are now, not taking power weapons and such into account.
Well then, good thing they'll be significantly cheaper than they are now.
dancingcricket wrote:Going to have to disagree on this sounding like improvements. 3+ save to 4+, 16.6% more casualties from successful wounds
A couple of people are after mentioning this, and that's not really how maths works. 16.6% is the chance of rolling a specific number on a d6, and specific numbers are immaterial to saving throws (other than I guess a 1 for an 2+ unit). Assuming a weapon that actually allows a saving throw (so not Ap4 or better), successful wounds will result in 50% more casualties for 4+ necrons compared to 3+ necrons because there are half again as many results on a saving throw roll that are fatal.
Simple demonstration: a unit of 12 new necron warriors suffers 12 successful wounds and rolls a bizarrely average array of saving throws: 1,1,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,6,6. The result is that 6 die, whereas with a 3+ save only 4 would have been scrapped.
I think it's very tough evaluating these rumours because a huge part of the 40k appeal is that the rules and story go hand in hand. Rules are easier to objectively spoil, but doing so without the story creates a skewed reflection. The simple truth is that the new Codex isn't just a set of rules to make an existing army work better with the current edition, it's also the primary source of the most current lore for the entire society it represents, and may be an evolution or a revolution of the current status quo, so I think judging how accurately the new rules represent Necrons is a fruitless task. The new Codex will reveal to us what the most contemporary generation of Necrons have come to be, and saying that the new rules spoil the race is a bit like saying that Henry Charles Albert Windsor is an inaccurate representation of King George II.
Overall to me the rumours are interesting because it sounds like the army is getting more of a personal identity more firmly supported by a rules set rather than being Marines' robotic alter-egos.
And it appears Immortals will be getting the 'Plastic Stealth Suit' treatment - ie. they're already popular, but to further increase sales they'll make a completely new kit for them that doesn't match the old one, probably with new options that, again, won't be at all compatable with the old model. And they'll put 'em in a box of 5 and charge as much as a Tac Squad for 'em.
And it's a perfect sell. Make 'em Troops, make Warriors weaker, everyone goes to buy the stronger troops.
H.B.M.C. wrote:And it appears Immortals will be getting the 'Plastic Stealth Suit' treatment - ie. they're already popular, but to further increase sales they'll make a completely new kit for them that doesn't match the old one, probably with new options that, again, won't be at all compatable with the old model. And they'll put 'em in a box of 5 and charge as much as a Tac Squad for 'em.
And it's a perfect sell. Make 'em Troops, make Warriors weaker, everyone goes to buy the stronger troops.
Selling Models > Better Game @ GW!
If by "popular" you mean "no one really plays the army at all" then yes, they're popular. Hugely popular.
I look forward to the teeming masses of army hoppers spending their money on Knee-Korns and then selling them off within weeks because the army is either sub-par or MNightWarded to the point that no one will play them.
H.B.M.C. wrote:And it appears Immortals will be getting the 'Plastic Stealth Suit' treatment - ie. they're already popular, but to further increase sales they'll make a completely new kit for them that doesn't match the old one, probably with new options that, again, won't be at all compatable with the old model. And they'll put 'em in a box of 5 and charge as much as a Tac Squad for 'em.
And it's a perfect sell. Make 'em Troops, make Warriors weaker, everyone goes to buy the stronger troops.
Selling Models > Better Game @ GW!
Yep, those 15$ models are selling gangbuster. Hell, I own a hundred of them and so does every Necron player.
This fact brought to you by H.B.M.C.!
Seriously, this one is just too obvious.
Ward is doing this codex,
Wowza. That's a pretty damn big boost 
