Looks like the explosion came from inside a building. Unless somebody was trying to contain a blast and create shrapnel it seems to me that a bomb would have been set up outside near people. But I'm not any kind of expert on these kind of things.
d-usa wrote: Looks like the explosion came from inside a building. Unless somebody was trying to contain a blast and create shrapnel it seems to me that a bomb would have been set up outside near people. But I'm not any kind of expert on these kind of things.
This is purely speculation, I'm not saying this is a planned attack, just speaking from my general knowledge of such matters.
Hiding a bomb ahead of time would be easier inside of a building. Police aren't going to be checking inside of the buildings as they walk by. Dependent on what the building was, it could very easily have gone entirely unnoticed.
djones520 wrote: Hiding a bomb ahead of time would be easier inside of a building. Police aren't going to be checking inside of the buildings as they walk by. Dependent on what the building was, it could very easily have gone entirely unnoticed.
Well, this looks worrying.
Time to park myself in this thread and see how things develop.
Hopefully, this is more accidental than it appears, but... yeah.
Saw this on TV a few minutes ago. Doesn't look like an accident but seems like an odd target for a terrorist attack, aside from large groups of people.
Grey Templar wrote: Saw this on TV a few minutes ago. Doesn't look like an accident but seems like an odd target for a terrorist attack, aside from large groups of people.
It looks like a pretty soft target, plenty of people, with relatively little security compared to other events.
Grey Templar wrote: Saw this on TV a few minutes ago. Doesn't look like an accident but seems like an odd target for a terrorist attack, aside from large groups of people.
It's the perfect target for a terrorist attack; lots of people gathered in one place, highly publicized, aftermath includes feelings of not being safe anywhere, and over usage government resources protecting lots of other potential targets.
Dreadclaw69 wrote: Watching the live feed now and they just mentioned no confirmed fatalities. With any event like this the casualty reports will be very fluid.
Yeah, CNN and local news are saying two at this point.
They're reporting police have found other unexploded devices. According to Business Insider, police are investigating a "possible incendiary device" at JFK library and another in front of the Mandarin hotel.
This Alex Jones fellow doesn't deserve the dignity of a rebuttal.
Anyway...
Aw, nuts. Well, at least these devices - if they are bombs - didn't go off, which is a small mercy, I guess.
whembly wrote: Reports are saying that they're loaded with ball bearings...
How the hell would you know that?
I've not heard anything about that on the BBC coverage, however, ball bearing filled bombs would make sense if you were targeting a crowd. And I would imagine there would be plenty of them around the place to see if they were used.
I missed that one, it's horrible to think there are people who would do this especially if they loaded the damn thigns with shotgun shells and the like.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Apparently 2 more devices have been found and are been dismantled. from AP:Intelligence officials
Intelligence sources say that there was no chatter to indicate that an attack was imminent, raising the possibility that this was domestic terrorist(s).
Dreadclaw69 wrote: Intelligence sources say that there was no chatter to indicate that an attack was imminent, raising the possibility that this was domestic terrorist(s).
Hmmm. Are there any usual suspects, so to speak, for this kind of thing?
Dreadclaw69 wrote: Intelligence sources say that there was no chatter to indicate that an attack was imminent, raising the possibility that this was domestic terrorist(s).
Dreadclaw69 wrote: Intelligence sources say that there was no chatter to indicate that an attack was imminent, raising the possibility that this was domestic terrorist(s).
Hmmm. Are there any usual suspects, so to speak, for this kind of thing?
Reports are saying that they're loaded with ball bearings...
How the hell would you know that?
ball bearings all over the place, contrary to movies there's a ton of crap thrown all over in an explosion you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out
Lot of potential sources for terrorist groups. Anti-government, anti-UN, anti-who knows what. People who do these kind of stupid things don't need any real reasons for them.
They just care about body counts. Nothing more and nothing less.
Looks like the FBI has found an individual with back packs at the trash cans that exploded on surveillance footage.
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote: Hmmm. Are there any usual suspects, so to speak, for this kind of thing?
Take any grievance (legitimate or not) that you can think of and take it to its most hateful end and you can have plenty of potential groups/people.
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Grundz wrote: ball bearings all over the place, contrary to movies there's a ton of crap thrown all over in an explosion you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out
It makes more sense to use ball bearings than shotgun shells, a shotgun shell detonating would cause another smaller explosion after the initial detonation that would disrupt the shockwave.
What was the reasoning of the olympic attacker back in Atlanta?
I know this is most likely not related at all, but the style reminds me of that incident.
From Eric Rudolph:
" In the summer of 1996, the world converged upon Atlanta for the Olympic Games. Under the protection and auspices of the regime in Washington millions of people came to celebrate the ideals of global socialism. Multinational corporations spent billions of dollars, and Washington organized an army of security to protect these best of all games. Even though the conception and purpose of the so-called Olympic movement is to promote the values of global socialism, as perfectly expressed in the song Imagine by John Lennon, which was the theme of the 1996 Games even though the purpose of the Olympics is to promote these ideals, the purpose of the attack on July 27 was to confound, anger and embarrass the Washington government in the eyes of the world for its abominable sanctioning of abortion on demand.
The plan was to force the cancellation of the Games, or at least create a state of insecurity to empty the streets around the venues and thereby eat into the vast amounts of money invested. "
He bombed the Olympics and 3 abortion clinics afterwards.
News reports are questioning whether the fact that today is Patriot's Day has influenced the attack today, the timing could be more evidence of home grown terrorist(s).
Patriots' Day (officially Patriots' Day in Massachusetts[1] and Patriot's Day in Maine[2]) is a civic holiday commemorating the anniversary of the Battles of Lexington and Concord, the first battles of the American Revolutionary War. It is observed on the third Monday in April in Massachusetts
Wow, someone really did not want those barefooted Kenyans to win this year.
grim and inappropriate humour aside, that's really fethed up. This kind of target is as non-political as you can really get; but I think someone already covered why it's a perfect target (fear of repetition creates a resource sinkhole in the future). If it's an act of domestic terrorism, I'm having a really tough time figuring out what the intended target could be... most domestic terrorism is on entirely (perceived) political targets.
Honestly, if someone were to say North Korea was behind this (maybe they confused Boston for Houston?) I'd believe it as much as any other illogical guess.
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Grey Templar wrote:Some terrorists just want to kill people.
That prevents them from being labelled as terrorists, almost by definition.
Reports are saying that they're loaded with ball bearings...
How the hell would you know that?
ball bearings all over the place, contrary to movies there's a ton of crap thrown all over in an explosion you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out
People have been told to stay at home and not gather in groups, also cell phone coverage in downtown Boston has been cut off in the event that cell phones were used to detonate the devices to prevent possible further explosions.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Mrs S and I were just passing through the neighborhood, possibly minutes before it all went off.
It's mind numbing really, so far 3 fatalities and casualties in or around 30-50. Boston's gone off like a rocket.
JFK library was indeed another bomb, so 3 have detonated and 1 has been located and controlled detonation.
Our thoughts are with the victims and families, and support to the emergency services and response teams.
I hope we know who is responsible quickly, I hope they are found quickly, I hope the justice is delivered with extreme prejudice.
I know how you feel, my mum and my sisters were two streets away from the spot in Whitehaven where the Cumbria shootings started, just about the time they were kicking off.
It's pretty scary to think how things might have been had events turned out differently, but I'm glad to hear you and the missus are okay.
I second the sentiment; this needs to be responded to with the fullest force of the law.
A federal law-enforcement source confirmed to The Post there are at least 12 dead and nearly 50 injured. Fox News reported that Massachusetts General Hospital was treating 10 people with amputated limbs and all operating rooms were on hold.
Authorities have a identified a suspect, who is currently being guarded in a Boston hospital with shrapnel wounds.
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote: Yeah, I suppose it was kind of a stupid question.
Hmm, well, it's good the FBI is working as fast as it can. With luck, they'll get the results soon.
Its not a stupid question, I grew up with that sort of stuff in Northern Ireland were sometimes legitimate grievances were taken to illegitimate conclusions. If you aren't used to that sort of thinking its likely (mercifully) alien to you.
I'm just watching this now, been at work all day, this is the first I've heard of it. Shocking. The BBC are reporting that 3 explosions went off fairly close to one another and that the authorities have shut down the mobile phone network, speculation is that that is to prevent more explosions. The police still havnt used the word 'Bomb' yet but the Boston authorities are freely using the word.
Isn't it Patriots Day in Massachusetts? My guess is a coordinated Terrorist attack, sadly.
Reports the BBC are getting suggest that the JFK fire is out and that all staff and visitors are safe and accounted for. Hopefully the two incidents are unconnected.
Also... let's not get too hasty here... but according to the NYP a Saudi National is in custody seen fleeing the explosion... he has shrapnel wounds... ???
Also... the authorities has shut down Cell Towers in Boston? Why? To stop further terrorist communication?
If its not too soon, I'd like to take this opportunity to express my hope that the large Irish-American population of Boston revisit their support (if held) for the IRA in light of this incident. This is what terrorism is, this is the sort of thing donations to groups like the IRA and INLA enable in places like Omagh, Brighton and Birmingham - it isn't romantic or heroic freedom-fighting, it's hateful, cowardly and murderous, as was this act.
My thoughts go out to the victims and their families. Do we have any dakkanauts in Boston, incidentally?
Also, it's some North Korean leader's anniversary today. Co-incidence?
Probably shut down the cell towers to a) prevent further communications between the perpetrators and b) to prevent any more remote detonation of bombs. I believe a number of IEDs have been triggered with simple cell signals. Command detonation would make sense too, since the bombs were placed at the finish line and therefore, the perpetrators couldn't have been confident about when a sizeable enough crowd would show up to warrant triggering the device.
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote: Yeah, I suppose it was kind of a stupid question.
Hmm, well, it's good the FBI is working as fast as it can. With luck, they'll get the results soon.
Its not a stupid question, I grew up with that sort of stuff in Northern Ireland were sometimes legitimate grievances were taken to illegitimate conclusions. If you aren't used to that sort of thinking its likely (mercifully) alien to you.
Fair enough. Gladly, these kinds of things have passed me by for the most part; still, when it does happen, it shakes you up a hell of a lot.
As I mentioned to MGS, I had family up in Cumbria when the shootings happened, and my grandma lost her best friend in that. I hope, for the sake of the people in Boston, that this is as bad as it gets.
I guess all we can do now is wait and see how things develop, and which scummy sonovagak the FBI hauls out of their hidey-hole and charges with this,
whembly wrote: Also... let's not get too hasty here... but according to the NYP a Saudi National is in custody seen fleeing the explosion... he has shrapnel wounds... ???
It is fairly easy to pick up a foreigner and suspect them as the terrorist. I participated in a post 9/11 drill as a victim and found myself strapped on a backboard by first responders and treated like the attacker because I spoke German. There was no terrorist on scene in the drill...
Also... the authorities has shut down Cell Towers in Boston? Why? To stop further terrorist communication?
Some IED use a cell phone as the trigger. Call the phone = bomb goes off.
sarpedons-right-hand wrote: I'm just watching this now, been at work all day, this is the first I've heard of it. Shocking. The BBC are reporting that 3 explosions went off fairly close to one another and that the authorities have shut down the mobile phone network, speculation is that that is to prevent more explosions. The police still havnt used the word 'Bomb' yet but the Boston authorities are freely using the word.
Isn't it Patriots Day in Massachusetts? My guess is a coordinated Terrorist attack, sadly.
The victims are in my thoughts, very sad....
Reports saying first two were attack explosions, third in that area was controlled, there was a fourth at the JFK Library.
It is indeed Patriot's day, wife and I were at Battleship Cove this morning having a wonderful day exploring the old warships and that's why we were travelling back through Boston, Battleship Cove could also easily have been a target. It's been lovely weather and the city was very crowded with families out to see the marathon.
Find those responsible and hang them high. Alive, for the crows.
whembly wrote: Also... let's not get too hasty here... but according to the NYP a Saudi National is in custody seen fleeing the explosion... he has shrapnel wounds... ???
Also... the authorities has shut down Cell Towers in Boston? Why? To stop further terrorist communication?
I think they did that to stop anymore explosions, as mobiles are the best way to detonate a bomb these days. That's according to the BBC anyway.
It makes more sense to use ball bearings than shotgun shells, a shotgun shell detonating would cause another smaller explosion after the initial detonation that would disrupt the shockwave.
shotgun shells actually wouldn't detonate, you can throw them right in a fire (DONT DO THIS ANYWAY), bombs are almost always a blasting cap and some electric voodoo to set off the cap and everything else blows off the cap, you can blow up a bomb because unless that cap goes off (generally), the whole thing doesn't work. (in general, unless you're making bombs out of really unstable stuff)
I'm not that sick from the act, it's something we have to deal with as the a free country (which really isn't all that free anymore) I just wish these nuts could target their aggression towards the people actually making their lives miserable instead of innocent people =/
sarpedons-right-hand wrote: I'm just watching this now, been at work all day, this is the first I've heard of it. Shocking. The BBC are reporting that 3 explosions went off fairly close to one another and that the authorities have shut down the mobile phone network, speculation is that that is to prevent more explosions. The police still havnt used the word 'Bomb' yet but the Boston authorities are freely using the word.
Isn't it Patriots Day in Massachusetts? My guess is a coordinated Terrorist attack, sadly.
The victims are in my thoughts, very sad....
Reports saying first two were attack explosions, third in that area was controlled, there was a fourth at the JFK Library.
It is indeed Patriot's day, wife and I were at Battleship Cove this morning having a wonderful day exploring the old warships and that's why we were travelling back through Boston, Battleship Cove could also easily have been a target. It's been lovely weather and the city was very crowded with families out to see the marathon.
Find those responsible and hang them high. Alive, for the crows.
Holy gak MGS, really glad you guys are ok! And I agree with your sentiment about the bombers entirely. String 'em up and leave them to rot...
Dreadclaw69 wrote: News reports are questioning whether the fact that today is Patriot's Day has influenced the attack today, the timing could be more evidence of home grown terrorist(s).
Patriots' Day (officially Patriots' Day in Massachusetts[1] and Patriot's Day in Maine[2]) is a civic holiday commemorating the anniversary of the Battles of Lexington and Concord, the first battles of the American Revolutionary War. It is observed on the third Monday in April in Massachusetts
A federal law-enforcement source confirmed to The Post there are at least 12 dead and nearly 50 injured. Fox News reported that Massachusetts General Hospital was treating 10 people with amputated limbs and all operating rooms were on hold.
Authorities have a identified a suspect, who is currently being guarded in a Boston hospital with shrapnel wounds.
If the internet rumour mill is to believed he is a Saudi national. Which would fit the multiple devices, including simultaneous detonation (Al Queda hallmark), but runs contrary to what the intelligence reports are supposed to have said.
A federal law-enforcement source confirmed to The Post there are at least 12 dead and nearly 50 injured. Fox News reported that Massachusetts General Hospital was treating 10 people with amputated limbs and all operating rooms were on hold.
Authorities have a identified a suspect, who is currently being guarded in a Boston hospital with shrapnel wounds.
And oh... feth Alex Jones.
They have a suspect already?
If idiocy is a crime, they've got the bludger dead to rights. Bloody fool, I loathe stuff like that.
If that was a serious question, then no, not as yet. Just some crackpot asshat called Alex Jones spouting conspiracy theories already.
Also... the authorities has shut down Cell Towers in Boston? Why? To stop further terrorist communication?
Because bombs can be triggered remotely via cell phone.
Oh... duh.
Then if I'm not too forward... that's a sign of sophistication that this may be in fact a terrorist attack from a major group...right?
I don't think so.
It would appear that if you know how to use a timer or anything else to set off a bomb then you should be able to use a cell phone. With no background in this whatsoever I would think that you would simply connect a speaker or something else that would generate electricity when a phone gets called as the trigger.
If the internet rumour mill is to believed he is a Saudi national. Which would fit the multiple devices, including simultaneous detonation (Al Queda hallmark), but runs contrary to what the intelligence reports are supposed to have said.
I have not seen anything mentioned. Although it would not surprise me if people would look for the Muslim/Arabic person initially. Like I said, my personal experience from participating in a drill was that "the foreign guy did it" seems to be a default position.
Alfndrate wrote: Radio station just mentioned they were looking for a third bomb at the Mandarin hotel, d-usa, is that the third explosion?
Holy gak, I stayed at that hotel a few years ago. I found out about the bombing from a friend-thoughts to out to the victims. I hope they catch the perpetrators.
A federal law-enforcement source confirmed to The Post there are at least 12 dead and nearly 50 injured. Fox News reported that Massachusetts General Hospital was treating 10 people with amputated limbs and all operating rooms were on hold.
Investigators have a suspect — a Saudi Arabian national — in the horrific Boston Marathon bombings, The Post has learned. Law enforcement sources said the 20-year-old suspect was under guard at an undisclosed Boston hospital.
It was not immediately clear why the man was hospitalized and whether he was injured in the attack or in his apprehension. The man was caught less than two hours after the 2:50 p.m. bombing on the finish line of the race, in the heart of Boston.
Authorities have a identified a suspect, a Saudi national, who is currently being guarded in a Boston hospital with shrapnel wounds. Law-enforcement sources said at least the first explosion occurred in the lobby of a nearby hotel.
A spokesperson for the Boston Police Department said no suspects have been taken into custody yet after the bombing at the Boston Marathon.
"At this time, we haven't been notified of any arrests or anyone apprehended," the spokesperson said.
The New York Post reported that a "Saudi national who suffered shrapnel wounds in today's blast" has been identified as "a suspect in the Boston Marathon bombing." The Boston PD spokesperson did not confirm that report.
"Honestly, I don't know where they're getting their information from, but it didn't come from us," said the spokesperson.
The Post report was attributed to "a law enforcement source." According to the Post, the "suspect" is "currently being guarded in a Boston hospital."
Update (5:27 PM): A spokesperson with the FBI's national press office in Washington DC declined to comment when asked about reports a suspect or person of interest had been identified in the bombings.
Update (5:39 PM): NBC News is also reporting there is a "possible suspect" being guarded at a Boston hospital. After that report, a spokesperson for the Boston Police Department reiterated that they had "no confirmation" of any possible suspect in custody.
"They didn't obtain that information from us," the spokesperson said of the NBC report.
But any event like this will have lots of news jumping around all over the place for quite a while.
Looks like Boston PD just denied again that there is anybody in custody, but also gave the stock answer of "we have police everywhere talking to a lot of people...".
d-usa wrote: Looks like Boston PD just denied again that there is anybody in custody, but also gave the stock answer of "we have police everywhere talking to a lot of people...".
Right... they may have the right people, but don't have enough to make an arrest. So the PD needs to either deny or state they have "person of interests".
They're doing their job... we all need to step back and let them.
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Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote: According to NBC Sportscast, athletes went from finishing straight to the hospital to donate blood
As far as I'm concerned... those runners are fething heros.
Seeing that many people packed together with the explosion? Obviously we are not dealing with a plastic explosive, or non home-made bomb, you could quite easily imagine the fatality figure running towards triple figures otherwise.
So something home made perhaps, and some kind of fringe extremist group? When I first heard about the library explosion my thoughts immediately turned to religious fundamentalists of whichever denomination, although I've since read that the 'explosion' there was possibly just a fire.
d-usa wrote: Looks like Boston PD just denied again that there is anybody in custody, but also gave the stock answer of "we have police everywhere talking to a lot of people...".
Right... they may have the right people, but don't have enough to make an arrest. So the PD needs to either deny or state they have "person of interests".
They're doing their job... we all need to step back and let them.
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Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote: According to NBC Sportscast, athletes went from finishing straight to the hospital to donate blood
As far as I'm concerned... those runners are fething heros.
Pretty much anyone who donates blood or orther blood product is a fething hero in my book.
However not to trivialize their charity but the blood they donate today won't be used for transfussions for the victems as it takes awhile to process the blood.
d-usa wrote: Looks like Boston PD just denied again that there is anybody in custody, but also gave the stock answer of "we have police everywhere talking to a lot of people...".
Right... they may have the right people, but don't have enough to make an arrest. So the PD needs to either deny or state they have "person of interests".
They're doing their job... we all need to step back and let them.
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Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote: According to NBC Sportscast, athletes went from finishing straight to the hospital to donate blood
As far as I'm concerned... those runners are fething heros.
Pretty much anyone who donates blood or orther blood product is a fething hero in my book.
However not to trivialize their charity but the blood they donate today won't be used for transfussions for the victems as it takes awhile to process the blood.
They're there for those who needs it a couple of months from now... this event will take a bite of the stash now.
I'm gonna make this super clear, and I hope this is easier to swallow coming from a non-American.
The next person making any type of allusion that this tragedy was even slightly 'called for' is gonna catch a vacation from Dakka. Even a little.
Flame-baiting on the back of a tragedy involving civilians from ALL OVER THE WORLD at an international event is scummy and low, I don't care how justified you think you are.
You can discuss potential motivators that would get some psycho or group of psychos to do this, but show some respect and sensitivity and DO NOT pull any 'they deserved it' crap here.
I will not be repeating this. Do yourselves a favor and don't push it.
MGS- Glad you and Mrs. S are well! Daniela's mom is visiting and they nearly went down to this today. It's scary stuff.
Albatross wrote: If its not too soon, I'd like to take this opportunity to express my hope that the large Irish-American population of Boston revisit their support (if held) for the IRA in light of this incident. This is what terrorism is, this is the sort of thing donations to groups like the IRA and INLA enable in places like Omagh, Brighton and Birmingham - it isn't romantic or heroic freedom-fighting, it's hateful, cowardly and murderous, as was this act.
I think you'll find that the last lingering US support for the IRA and actions similar to this pretty much dried up back in 2001.
Albatross wrote: My thoughts go out to the victims and their families. Do we have any dakkanauts in Boston, incidentally?
At least a few in Boston and several in the greater Boston area.
Just something I thought might raise people's spirits a bit:
The Red Cross in Eastern Massachusetts tweets: "Due to the generosity of our donors we don't need blood at this time. Please schedule for a future donation."
Glad to see, even in the midst of this crisis, people are pitching in and doing their bit. It really helps.
Law enforcement have just confirmed that an unspecified person is being held/questioned in relation to today's events.
**edit**
Saudi national who was chased and apprehended by a member of the public before being handed over to the police is said to be the detained person. Seems he was carrying two backpacks before the explosions.
Mannahnin wrote: MGS- Glad you and Mrs. S are well! Daniela's mom is visiting and they nearly went down to this today. It's scary stuff.
Really glad Daniela and her mum didn't go. Send our best and give them a hug.
We went down to Battleship Cove, it was an amazing day, very interesting. It was fairly busy being Patriot's Day and this has made me double think how much of a target that floating museum to military might would have been to certain groups, domestic and abroad.
We were right there, just a couple of streets over, heading home, minutes before the bombs went off, we contemplated stopping off to watch the folks coming back.
Oh yeah, and I just kicked some people from back in PA off my facebook for suggesting Obama was behind it. My patience is oddly non-existent at this time. I think it's seeing the people being carried away with limbs missing from a street I walked down 3 days ago.
The Red Cross in Eastern Massachusetts tweets: "Due to the generosity of our donors we don't need blood at this time. Please schedule for a future donation."
Glad to see, even in the midst of this crisis, people are pitching in and doing their bit. It really helps.
We asked and were told to contribute later in the week, as the city's various hospitals were well stocked for this but that this will leave them short afterwards.
Mannahnin wrote: MGS- Glad you and Mrs. S are well! Daniela's mom is visiting and they nearly went down to this today. It's scary stuff.
Albatross wrote: If its not too soon, I'd like to take this opportunity to express my hope that the large Irish-American population of Boston revisit their support (if held) for the IRA in light of this incident. This is what terrorism is, this is the sort of thing donations to groups like the IRA and INLA enable in places like Omagh, Brighton and Birmingham - it isn't romantic or heroic freedom-fighting, it's hateful, cowardly and murderous, as was this act.
I think you'll find that the last lingering US support for the IRA and actions similar to this pretty much dried up back in 2001.
.
Concur on all points, they stopped passing the cup in my mom's old Irish neighborhood back in the 1980s even, also glad to hear the Stompas and everyone with people in the area's people are okay.
Here's what I've come up with raking all the data streams:
Looks like we have 80+ injuries, still 2 dead, contrary to NBC reports Boston Police Commissioner reports no suspects or any one in custody at this time. Two more IEDs UXO* around Boston as well as a possible third blast at the JFK library around 1500 local time. The third incident is unconfirmed as it might just be a fire.
We should be thanking out lucky stars right about now, it's a miracle casualties weren't higher and two of those IEDs failed to detonate. Going to be... interesting, to see what caused this one.
Mannahnin wrote: MGS- Glad you and Mrs. S are well! Daniela's mom is visiting and they nearly went down to this today. It's scary stuff.
Really glad Daniela and her mum didn't go. Send our best and give them a hug.
We went down to Battleship Cove, it was an amazing day, very interesting. It was fairly busy being Patriot's Day and this has made me double think how much of a target that floating museum to military might would have been to certain groups, domestic and abroad.
We were right there, just a couple of streets over, heading home, minutes before the bombs went off, we contemplated stopping off to watch the folks coming back.
Oh yeah, and I just kicked some people from back in PA off my facebook for suggesting Obama was behind it. My patience is oddly non-existent at this time. I think it's seeing the people being carried away with limbs missing from a street I walked down 3 days ago.
The fact that people even suggest that already is disgusting, and I'm glad you removed them. I never have patience for people like that and I am glad you are the same fella.
I'm gonna make this super clear, and I hope this is easier to swallow coming from a non-American.
The next person making any type of allusion that this tragedy was even slightly 'called for' is gonna catch a vacation from Dakka. Even a little.
Flame-baiting on the back of a tragedy involving civilians from ALL OVER THE WORLD at an international event is scummy and low, I don't care how justified you think you are.
You can discuss potential motivators that would get some psycho or group of psychos to do this, but show some respect and sensitivity and DO NOT pull any 'they deserved it' crap here.
I will not be repeating this. Do yourselves a favor and don't push it.
Good man, Major Tom. Good man.
On other things, while many people are likely going to make the knee-jerk reaction and gasp "Ohmigod, Al Qieda is back after all these years!", I'm willing to bet it was standard domestic terrorism. Now, if it comes out as being different, I will swallow my claim, but essentially 90% of terrorist acts in America during the 20th century were perpetrated by other Americans, as much as that sickens me.
There's nothing an innocent person can possibly do to warrant this kind of attack, other than to show that some bat-gak crazy idiot wants to show how evil they are.
I know people have already dies from this attack, but I'll certainly cross my fingers for the ones that can still pull through.
Map I saw showed a medical tent nearby for the marathon, so thankfully there was already a good grip of medical personnel nearby to offer immediate first aid. Had it not been that, the death toll could have been as high as 40, with all of the amputations I'd wager.
This could have been so much worse. Thankfully the other devices didn't go off.
I'm looking forward to finding out more about the perpetrators. They are so going to regret this.
I'm gonna make this super clear, and I hope this is easier to swallow coming from a non-American.
The next person making any type of allusion that this tragedy was even slightly 'called for' is gonna catch a vacation from Dakka. Even a little.
Flame-baiting on the back of a tragedy involving civilians from ALL OVER THE WORLD at an international event is scummy and low, I don't care how justified you think you are.
You can discuss potential motivators that would get some psycho or group of psychos to do this, but show some respect and sensitivity and DO NOT pull any 'they deserved it' crap here.
I will not be repeating this. Do yourselves a favor and don't push it.
Good man, Major Tom. Good man.
On other things, while many people are likely going to make the knee-jerk reaction and gasp "Ohmigod, Al Qieda is back after all these years!", I'm willing to bet it was standard domestic terrorism. Now, if it comes out as being different, I will swallow my claim, but essentially 90% of terrorist acts in America during the 20th century were perpetrated by other Americans, as much as that sickens me.
Lets not get ahead of ourselves. We don't know anything yet.
The only thing that sickens me more than the act itself is the way some people are reacting to it. People I know have seen the event, essential shrugged, and moved on with their day. I know people deal with things like this certain ways but that's just... its terrible. We have too many tragedies happening. People are, for lack of a better word, becoming used to this. Its not right.
I'm gonna make this super clear, and I hope this is easier to swallow coming from a non-American.
The next person making any type of allusion that this tragedy was even slightly 'called for' is gonna catch a vacation from Dakka. Even a little.
Flame-baiting on the back of a tragedy involving civilians from ALL OVER THE WORLD at an international event is scummy and low, I don't care how justified you think you are.
You can discuss potential motivators that would get some psycho or group of psychos to do this, but show some respect and sensitivity and DO NOT pull any 'they deserved it' crap here.
I will not be repeating this. Do yourselves a favor and don't push it.
Good man, Major Tom. Good man.
On other things, while many people are likely going to make the knee-jerk reaction and gasp "Ohmigod, Al Qieda is back after all these years!", I'm willing to bet it was standard domestic terrorism. Now, if it comes out as being different, I will swallow my claim, but essentially 90% of terrorist acts in America during the 20th century were perpetrated by other Americans, as much as that sickens me.
There's nothing an innocent person can possibly do to warrant this kind of attack, other than to show that some bat-gak crazy idiot wants to show how evil they are.
I know people have already dies from this attack, but I'll certainly cross my fingers for the ones that can still pull through.
Seconded. There are some lines it just isn't funny to cross.
And yeah, people have been bringing up that Saudi Arabian mystery "suspect" - as some outlets are labelling him - and it seems to me that things are too soon to know for sure who's behind it all and what's going on.
Either way, the people behind it are about to learn the hard way that you don't pull this gak in the most powerful country in the world and expect to get away with it.
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote: And yeah, people have been bringing up that Saudi Arabian mystery "suspect" - as some outlets are labelling him - and it seems to me that things are too soon to know for sure who's behind it all and what's going on.
Either way, the people behind it are about to learn the hard way that you don't pull this gak in the most powerful country in the world and expect to get away with it.
I'm only bringing it up as a possible feature that may develop. I'm not trying to report it as fact, so apologies if it has read like that. It is quite feasible that he is wholly innocent, was caught up in events and, quite reasonably, ran after the explosions
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote: And yeah, people have been bringing up that Saudi Arabian mystery "suspect" - as some outlets are labelling him - and it seems to me that things are too soon to know for sure who's behind it all and what's going on.
Either way, the people behind it are about to learn the hard way that you don't pull this gak in the most powerful country in the world and expect to get away with it.
I'm only bringing it up as a possible feature that may develop. I'm not trying to report it as fact, so apologies if it has read like that. It is quite feasible that he is wholly innocent, was caught up in events and, quite reasonably, ran after the explosions
Oh, I don't mean you. Nobody in the thread's been doing this, but a few of the usual suspects amongst the news outlets have been waving it around.
It's terrible. I'm trying to watch the news meanwhile the parents want to move on and watch their everyday Television. I understand not a lot is coming in right now, but id rather be right there for when something does..
A character named Yui Takamura from "Total Eclipse" kinda lame mecha anime, but the first two episodes have serious mass casualties and plenty of nightmare fuel.
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote: Oh, I don't mean you. Nobody in the thread's been doing this, but a few of the usual suspects amongst the news outlets have been waving it around.
I know, but because I've posted it a few times I thought I'd just take the chance to clear things up
I live about 25 minutes west of Boston, my sister lives in Boston, and I have a lot friends in the city as well. I've been super blessed everyone I could get in touch with is safe. Thoughts and prayers to anyone that was close or in the city at all.
Terrorists should really learn that we will not cower in a hole, nor will it advance their fekked up ideals, all this does is band good people together to help the victims and seek justice which means hunting those deranged psychopaths down, no matter how long it takes.
Monster Rain wrote: My younger sister was at the finish line with her massage therapy class giving free massages to the athletes as they finished if they wanted one.
She was about 150 from the explosions though, thank God.
Damn, glad to hear that she wasn't hurt in all this
DA's Forever wrote: The only thing that sickens me more than the act itself is the way some people are reacting to it. People I know have seen the event, essential shrugged, and moved on with their day. I know people deal with things like this certain ways but that's just... its terrible. We have too many tragedies happening. People are, for lack of a better word, becoming used to this. Its not right.
I don't know, the only emotional response I had was "desire to see the people responsible flayed, covered in quicklime, and burned alive," with a dab of "regret they won't get anything so horrific as they deserve once caught," and then I went right back to what I was doing.
The ability to keep going in the face of horror is a strength. Being incapacitated with rage or grief is weakness, and it's what the filthy animals who pull things like this want from everyone.
DA's Forever wrote: The only thing that sickens me more than the act itself is the way some people are reacting to it. People I know have seen the event, essential shrugged, and moved on with their day. I know people deal with things like this certain ways but that's just... its terrible. We have too many tragedies happening. People are, for lack of a better word, becoming used to this. Its not right.
I've been following it and been saddened by it.
I did decide to follow through with the plan I started the day with:
I am now painting the nursery for my unborn daughter.
I hate painting, there is just about anything I would rather do than paint that room. This event would be the perfect excuse to sit in front of the TV with a blank stare.
But now painting that room is kind of cathartic. A midst all the hurt and death and tragedy, it reminds me of hope and of life.
This is not really directed as any kind of criticism against you or your statement. Just had me thinking about ways we cope.
To call this terrorism is to give too much credit to the cowards behind this act. They're murderers, plain and simple.
And, I don't mean to sound cold and uncaring, but they're fairly incompetent cowards as well, since they couldn't even get all of their bombs to go off. But that incompetence will make sure they get caught.
Actually, the bombs we're incredibly crude, adding ball bearings is one of the simplest methods to maximize harm caused. I'm just happy they managed to find the other devices before more people got hurt.
As for peoples reactions. After more then a decade of this gak happening all around the globe. People have just become desensitized, it's a bit sad but understandable. Especialy if it's happening halfway around the globe from you.
That said, I've had the cnn on ever since I heard about it.
DA's Forever wrote: The only thing that sickens me more than the act itself is the way some people are reacting to it. People I know have seen the event, essential shrugged, and moved on with their day. I know people deal with things like this certain ways but that's just... its terrible. We have too many tragedies happening. People are, for lack of a better word, becoming used to this. Its not right.
I've been following it and been saddened by it.
I did decide to follow through with the plan I started the day with:
I am now painting the nursery for my unborn daughter.
I hate painting, there is just about anything I would rather do than paint that room. This event would be the perfect excuse to sit in front of the TV with a blank stare.
But now painting that room is kind of cathartic. A midst all the hurt and death and tragedy, it reminds me of hope and of life.
This is not really directed as any kind of criticism against you or your statement. Just had me thinking about ways we cope.
Indeed and I understand that is a way people cope. But I know these people and I've seen them react and cope to things like this, They way they are acting is most definitely not the way they cope. People are brushing it off. Maybe its because of my location (small town, not much changes, ever) Just doesn't feel like they way things were in the past, Even as recently as Sandy Hook The whole day we didn't talk about much of anything else.
I hope they find who's responsible soon. I however don't want shoddy work and jumping to conclusions on anyone either. I hope it gets resolved right and quick. My thoughts are with everyone in Boston at the moment.
Monster Rain wrote:My younger sister was at the finish line with her massage therapy class giving free massages to the athletes as they finished if they wanted one.
She was about 150 from the explosions though, thank God.
A facebook friend made a nice respectful post about this then soured it with a line commenting on How Praying for the dead/injured was futile. Really got my blood boiling, i didn't tell him what-for because i like the guy irl and have already Henpecked him about other slightly ignorant status updates.
The reports of the wounded in Boston keep going up and down, CNN was saying 64, then it was over a hundred then it went down agin. Al jazeera is claiming 80 injured, 6 critically. Pretty sad day all around.
It's tax day too, so that might point toward domestic. Really though, I think things could have been infinitely worse. This was a marathon, and there was plenty of medical help on site.
Imagine if this had been a black friday crowd or something where all the first responders were largely in bed still. Or if they had used some of the tactics that have been used in Iraq and Afghanistan - have a fairly small device go off, kill/wound some people, and have a second, larger device ready for when the police and medical personnel arrived on scene. Or if they had had a larger explosive to begin with. You can pack a lot of ANFO into a truck, for example.
Imagine if something like that had gone up. I suppose maybe this one flew under the radar specifically because it looks like just a few small devices though, they didn't try for anything huge.
Also... the authorities has shut down Cell Towers in Boston? Why? To stop further terrorist communication?
Because bombs can be triggered remotely via cell phone.
Oh... duh.
Then if I'm not too forward... that's a sign of sophistication that this may be in fact a terrorist attack from a major group...right?
I don't think so.
It would appear that if you know how to use a timer or anything else to set off a bomb then you should be able to use a cell phone. With no background in this whatsoever I would think that you would simply connect a speaker or something else that would generate electricity when a phone gets called as the trigger.
Well from what I know from my, admittedly limited, reading on IEDs, is that the electric detonator is attached to two wires that are placed so that when the rotating hammer from the phone's vibrator starts to rotate it connects with both wires and completes the circuit. Takes about 10 minutes or so to set up once you have the materials at hand. The ballbearing liner on the bomb, or interspersed throughout, I don't actually know, is pretty much just common sense from a terrorist point of view. It creates an effect similar to that of a Claymore going off. I'm much more interested in what they used for explosives personally, as that seems to be the material which is both the hardest and most dangerous in terms of discovery when it comes to bomb making.
It is not my intention to seem callous in this post, I simply don't really have anything else to add to the discussion.
Yeah...I was one of those that pretty much shrugged and went on with my day (by all appearances). I hate that this happened, and I have nothing but sympathy for the victims and their families, but I'm not shocked or stunned. It's happened before, and it's going to happen again. I hope they find those that are responsible and burn them at the stake, but it won't stop it. One thing the world will never lack is a steady supply of those with hate and violence in their hearts for one reason or another...and no matter how much security and vigilance you put into stopping them, eventually they will succeed in something like this.
I will absolutely offer my utmost sympathies, but I refuse to be completely paralyzed by something I cannot be any aid to, and then spend all my time watching reporters repeat and exaggerate the same "undocumented" reports over and over, hoping to stall and keep the public tuned to "them" until they can get anything concrete.
Right now it's just a bunch of talking heads.
Now if I was actually in the area, i would be interested in helping. But as I am half a country away.....
Mannahnin wrote: MGS- Glad you and Mrs. S are well! Daniela's mom is visiting and they nearly went down to this today. It's scary stuff.
Albatross wrote: If its not too soon, I'd like to take this opportunity to express my hope that the large Irish-American population of Boston revisit their support (if held) for the IRA in light of this incident. This is what terrorism is, this is the sort of thing donations to groups like the IRA and INLA enable in places like Omagh, Brighton and Birmingham - it isn't romantic or heroic freedom-fighting, it's hateful, cowardly and murderous, as was this act.
I think you'll find that the last lingering US support for the IRA and actions similar to this pretty much dried up back in 2001.
Being of Irish descent and raised on the outskirts of Worcester, MA I can attest that there was support for the IRA in the community and it shames me to this day.
Monster Rain wrote: My younger sister was at the finish line with her massage therapy class giving free massages to the athletes as they finished if they wanted one.
She was about 150 from the explosions though, thank God.
Damn, glad to hear that she wasn't hurt in all this
Thanks, buddy. It's still pretty weird to think that your kid sister was 50 yards from a terrorist IED detonation.
I had some people on my facebook already cracking jokes about the blasts, they were quickyl removed I have no patience for people like that at all.
Seeking levity to drown out despair is a very human reaction, especially to something this horrific. My father remarked to me over the phone "I guess someone out there really hates joggers", perhaps I should close of all contact with him. He’s the least cynical person on the planet, he’s just not comfortable with this sort of thing and it’s his way of dealing with it.
On a side note those images are incredibly disturbing, I too was quite shocked the individual in the wheelchair was still concious.
Bromsy wrote: It's tax day too, so that might point toward domestic. Really though, I think things could have been infinitely worse. This was a marathon, and there was plenty of medical help on site.
Imagine if this had been a black friday crowd or something where all the first responders were largely in bed still. Or if they had used some of the tactics that have been used in Iraq and Afghanistan - have a fairly small device go off, kill/wound some people, and have a second, larger device ready for when the police and medical personnel arrived on scene. Or if they had had a larger explosive to begin with. You can pack a lot of ANFO into a truck, for example.
Hence why I'd be willing to bet this was a home grown idiot/s and not an true international terror cell.
Sadly, one of the two innocents killed was apparently just 8 years old.
As horrible as this has been, it seems like everything was very crude and at least one of the bombs failed.
While it displays many of the "styles" of our favorite terrorism network it also seems like it was very amateurish at the same time. I would not be surprised if it was home grown or a lone wolf kind of attack.
Well, amateurish bomb making doesn't mean it's not Al Qaeda, their guys are going to run the gamut, skill wise - especially ones snuck into/hidden in America. Plus when you are dealing with improvised explosives, usually carried by some junior lackey (no one with any pull is going to do that job) a lot can happen in transit.
BOLO put out by Boston law enforcement for "dark skinned or black male" who tried to gain restricted access minutes b4 1st explosion #CNN
Trying to find a link on CNN's page...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
plastictrees wrote: I think people overestimate the level of organisation of some of these "groups".
Well...
Rep. Mike McCaul, the House Homeland Security Committee chairman, noted on Fox News that if the reports of ball bearings are indeed true, “I would consider that a significant factor in terms of this being a sort IED device that’s very similar to what the terrorists used overseas in the Middle East.”consider that a significant factor in terms of this being a sort IED device that’s very similar to what the terrorists used overseas in the Middle East."http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/04/15/gop_congressman_boston_bombing_has_signature_of_a_middle_eastern_terror_attack.html
Rep McCaul is apparently unaware that people have been putting ball bearings and similar cheaply obtained shrapnel objects in explosive devices since long before he was born.
Mannahnin wrote: Rep McCaul is apparently unaware that people have been putting ball bearings and similar cheaply obtained shrapnel objects in explosive devices since long before he was born.
Quite, this could simply be someone who has seen the movie Swordfish.
Update, CNN has posted an updated casualty list: Three killed, 141 injured, 17 in critical condition, 25 are serious. At least eight are children.
The WSJ is reporting that FIVE possible IEDs have turned up as UXO and are being investigated by police. Police Commissioner Davis has described the detonated weapons as being quite powerful. Still no suspects at this time.
Counterterrorism officials found five additional suspect devices, but a law-enforcement official said late Monday that investigators now doubt the devices were bombs.
Counterterrorism officials found five additional suspect devices, but a law-enforcement official said late Monday that investigators now doubt the devices were bombs.
So yeah it's a weird mix right now, I don't know if the five potential devices are in addition to or part of the count of the two UXO devices defused earlier.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: So yeah it's a weird mix right now, I don't know if the five potential devices are in addition to or part of the count of the two UXO devices defused earlier.
Seven total identified... 2 detonated... the other 5? I think one was purposely destroyed....
Al Quaeda would have probably made a statement by now, in fact there are a few times in recent memory where they have said "we didn't do it" because they didn't, they are pretty consistent in taking credit for their attacks.
Home-grown "organization". Anti-tax, anti-government; chooses Boston, a hotbed for revolutionaries in 1774-1782, to make a point on this day being both "Patriots Day" and tax-day.. No statements have been made by such a group (just shows their cowardice) and why would they attack a non-political event?
A 'lone gunman', who is off his rocker and has hate enough for the government,and feels that he needs to make a 2nd amendment point i.e. "if you take our guns we will find a way" and chooses the coincidental timing of "Patriots Day" and tax-day. He also sees Boston as a place to make his point due to its association with the American Revolution.
The IRA? Seems a really weird target for them, don't they usually make their attacks on the other side of the pond, preferring targets in the UK?
Political point scoring by labeling republicans with this is as tactless and moronic as that shiteater Jones trying to tinfoilconspiracy pin it on Obama.
If it does turn out to be some guy claiming a right wing affiliation, if it is some suvivalism McVey creature, that does not mean that any sane republican would support or condone it.
President Obama said that on a day like today there are no republicans and no democrats, just Americans, so be Americans or humane people of any other nation and show bipartisan support for civilians celebrating a sporting event with their families on a week of holiday, who were cruelly and brutally attacked by a sadistic element, an element that should and WILL be found and punished.
There are dead children and people are lying in hospital beds missing limbs they had on a few hours previous.
Counterterrorism officials found five additional suspect devices, but a law-enforcement official said late Monday that investigators now doubt the devices were bombs.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: Political point scoring by labeling republicans with this is as tactless and moronic as that shiteater trying to tinfoilconspiracy pin it on Obama.
If it does turn out to be some guy claiming a right wing affiliation, if it is some suvivalism McVey creature, that does not mean that any sane republican would support or condone it.
President Obama said that on a day like today there are no republicans and no democrats, just Americans, so be Americans or humane people of any other nation and show bipartisan support for civilians celebrating a sporting event with their families on a week of holiday, who were cruelly and brutally attacked by a sadistic element, an element that should and WILL be found and punished.
There are dead children and people are lying in hospital beds missing limbs they had on a few hours previous.
No more partisan point scoring, it's repellent.
Exactly! BTW... I'm glad you and your family is safe.
Counterterrorism officials found five additional suspect devices, but a law-enforcement official said late Monday that investigators now doubt the devices were bombs.
If they're not bombs, then WTF are they? Decoys?
Misdelivered Reaper Kickstarter boxes?
Okay... that was funny...
Seriously... I can't calm down... I might take some sleeping pills just to go to sleep so that I'm not raging all night long.
Mannahnin wrote: Rep McCaul is apparently unaware that people have been putting ball bearings and similar cheaply obtained shrapnel objects in explosive devices since long before he was born.
Quite, this could simply be someone who has seen the movie Swordfish.
There was more to that movie than Halle Berry's breasts?
As for the incident I have no interest in speculating on the source as I am not privvy to enough information to make a reasoned guess, nor do I want to watch the news speculate on even less information for the next 48 hours before any actual new, verifiable information comes up.
You need to quit building bonfires here, this is too soon for you to be using it to start fights with people over how they voted/for your amusement, you understand me? Cease this.
As bad as this is to see, you have to give a thumbs up for the medical people, civilians, law enforcement, others saving so many more lives that could have been lost.
Let us hope and pray that the loss of life will be low.
Bromsy wrote: It's tax day too, so that might point toward domestic.
Its tax day and the Boston Marathon is held on Patriot's Day, which commemorates the first battles of the revolutionary war and has been noted as significant by militia groups in the past. Additionally, Waco and Oklahoma City were both on April, 19th; which is often Patriot's Day (third Monday in April).
Bromsy wrote: It's tax day too, so that might point toward domestic.
Its tax day and the Boston Marathon is held on Patriot's Day, which commemorates the first battles of the revolutionary war and has been noted as significant by militia groups in the past. Additionally, Waco and Oklahoma City were both on April, 19th; which is often Patriot's Day (third Monday in April).
The seige at Waco ended when the government decided to end it; and I think that entire debacle originated with a religious cult; I don't think it was really an anti-government thing. It's somewhat off topic; I just don't think Waco fits into this. At all.
Well, it does, if you pre-suppose that it's a right-wing type issue, by which I mean militia types*. If so, Waco is very important because it's a good illustration of the federal government at it's worst - brutishly cracking down on people who just wanted to be left alone, as with Ruby Ridge
*and I'm not pre-supposing that at all. We have no information other than the fact it was tax day, the rest is all bs media wheel-spinning. I'm simply indicating that the events at Waco, Ruby Ridge, and Oklahoma all fit neatly into a very specific narrative of a small subset of extremism in this country.
That's not really the point, I'm not going to try and rationalize why crazy militia people think they way they do, and I'm not going to bother arguing this with you. I'm simply responding to Azazel that you can't divorce Waco from the Oklahoma city bombing and such; especially when Timothy MCveigh expressly stated that his motivation was the events of Waco.
A Boston kin mate I know took part in the marathron and finished about 15 minutes before the explosion hit. He was already a good few meters away from the finishing line, recovering from the marathon and chatting with friends & family. I am glad he's well, but he said he'd never seen such brutality in his entire life; people without limbs, blood everywhere, a lot of people being in a daze, stumbling around, it was horrible.
Real shame about those who died, and one was just a kid with his whole life ahead of him. Probably was having the time of his life at the race today.
No, prayer should be with the families of those affected, and the remaining wounded.
Don't feel bad for the kid or the other dead. The child was innocent. Under God's own Law he/she has a ticket straight to the pearly gates and wonders we can't possibly imagine. He will never again experience fear, terror, loss, or pain. For them, its all good now.
Sigvatr wrote: A Boston kin mate I know took part in the marathron and finished about 15 minutes before the explosion hit. He was already a good few meters away from the finishing line, recovering from the marathon and chatting with friends & family. I am glad he's well, but he said he'd never seen such brutality in his entire life; people without limbs, blood everywhere, a lot of people being in a daze, stumbling around, it was horrible.
I wouldn't exactly call him a rational person for whom I would believe how he interpreted events as being sound; "brutishly cracking down on people who just wanted to be left alone, as with Ruby Ridge" is certainly one way of considering the events, but it isn't a very accurate one, and is a bit self serving for those that want to view it through that particular lens.
Counterterrorism officials found five additional suspect devices, but a law-enforcement official said late Monday that investigators now doubt the devices were bombs.
If they're not bombs, then WTF are they? Decoys?
All it means is that they found devices that they haven't ID'd yet. Being this was near the finish line of a very grueling race, it could simply have been various medical equipment for runners that were dropped as people fled. The persons finding it might not know what it is, so they reported it to a LEO.
Like a personal defibrillator (pictured below) that was dropped on the ground and broken into pieces. Lots of possibilities. Strange reports and rumors will abound for the next few days. Take news that doesn't come directly from a news conference with a grain of salt for now.
Ouze wrote: That's not really the point, I'm not going to try and rationalize why crazy militia people think they way they do, and I'm not going to bother arguing this with you. I'm simply responding to Azazel that you can't divorce Waco from the Oklahoma city bombing and such; especially when Timothy MCveigh expressly stated that his motivation was the events of Waco.
It just seemed that you were sweeping some reportedly hideous behavior by the Branch Davidians under the rug for the sake of making your point, that's all.
McVeigh was a nutjob though, so I'm not sure I put too much stock in what he says. Jodie Foster was the motivation for the Reagan Assassination attempt, as I recall.
I hope those who were injured recover. What a horrible event.
It does strike me that if something like this happened in Iraq or Afganistan or the Sudan, it wouldn't even be a blip on our radar, let alone the depth of emotion some are experiencing.
A good example of the power of "us" and "them" in psychology, I think.
MGS, MR, I'm glad you and your families were unharmed.
I think there's some debate on that point, but I think a dissection of the events of the Waco Seige might be a little off-topic.
The main point was that if you open fire on people trying to serve a warrant, legally obtained based on legitimate concerns that you're breaking several laws, you are not a sympathetic figure in the eyes of most reasonable people.
Monster Rain wrote: I think there's some debate on that point, but I think a dissection of the events of the Waco Seige might be a little off-topic.
The main point was that if you open fire on people trying to serve a warrant, legally obtained based on legitimate concerns that you're breaking several laws, you are not a sympathetic figure in the eyes of most reasonable people.
And then when the government kills everyone in the house, the government is not a sympathetic figure in the eyes of the most reasonable people.
Monster Rain wrote: I think there's some debate on that point, but I think a dissection of the events of the Waco Seige might be a little off-topic.
The main point was that if you open fire on people trying to serve a warrant, legally obtained based on legitimate concerns that you're breaking several laws, you are not a sympathetic figure in the eyes of most reasonable people.
And then when the government kills everyone in the house, the government is not a sympathetic figure in the eyes of the most reasonable people.
Of course most reasonable people would know better than to think of the government in terms like sympathetic or empathetic, and would also not believe such foolishness as the government just going into a burning house and killing everyone for the lulz, or that they even did that.
I do love when you try to pretend to know what a reasonable person would think though. It shows imagination.
Ahtman wrote: I do love when you try to pretend to know what a reasonable person would think though. It shows imagination.
Thanks! At least someone recognizes the effort it takes for me.
I just assume that anyone that has made their way to OT would be far enough down the rabbit hole that 'reasonable' would not be an apt description, so I probably should have said "when we try to pretend".
And then when the government kills everyone in the house, the government is not a sympathetic figure in the eyes of the most reasonable people.
There is, as I understand it, some controversy surrounding your claim that the government was responsible for starting the fire or that the heads of this order, that condoned Koresh taking several wives aged 12 and 13 up and maintained that the end of the world was upon them, living as they did in a fortress armed to the teeth for a siege, decided to 'go out with a bang'.
Everyone I know was very upset about the children and got the sense that likely there were people who wanted to leave, but that the majority were a hotbed of total lunatics that condoned child abuse 'in the name of god' and that forming yourselves into a small army and fortifying yourselves to fight the government was not very in keeping with anything they could remember reading in the Bible. I was raised Methodist and I have not one jot of sympathy with their apocalyptic nonsense or the wickedness they perpetrated in their fortress, only for those they inflicted their evil ways on, in service to Koresh, a false messiah.
Da Boss wrote: I hope those who were injured recover. What a horrible event.
It does strike me that if something like this happened in Iraq or Afganistan or the Sudan, it wouldn't even be a blip on our radar, let alone the depth of emotion some are experiencing.
A good example of the power of "us" and "them" in psychology, I think.
MGS, MR, I'm glad you and your families were unharmed.
Something did happen in Iraq that day. Several bombs across multiple cites, over 20 dead, over 100 wounded.
**edit**
No firm suspect(s) yet, and he spoke glowingly of the American public who helped in this time of need and that he is determined that those responsible will be brought to justice.
I'm a noted right-wing person on these forums but I must say that the First responders of Boston have been heroic in everything they have done.
President Obama who I do not like has been out front and done a superlative job.
To MGS and anyone else who was in that area or knew someone who was I am so glad to hear that everyone is alright
to the family of that 8 year old boy whose mother is in ICU and whose sister lost a leg, I cannot hope to understand your grief but you have my prayers and every wish that justice will be served.
To the Fething Gakhole who did this. I hope you get what you deserve Coward.
Time to put this gun culture to use, Autobots transform and roll out!
But seriously, Captain Collius, MGS, and several others have stated it better than I could.
I'm just getting upset with the rare media outlet that is choosing this as a point in time to attack the president for this.
I got to "enjoy" an hour of a sports talk radio discussing this. While one of the hosts was (as always) calm, cool, and collected, his co-host was yelling up a fething storm, outraged that Obama wasn't outraged at this, and that it would be Benghazi all over again, and that he was ticked that our President wasn't angry about an event that attacked our country and caused the death of an 8 year old boy... He didn't like it when a caller pointed out that to assume our President wasn't upset and angry was childish...
I don't have anytime for people trying to use this horrific event to score political points before the bodies are even cold, and while many people are still in surgery or being treated.
captain collius wrote: I'm a noted right-wing person on these forums but I must say that the First responders of Boston have been heroic in everything they have done.
President Obama who I do not like has been out front and done a superlative job.
To MGS and anyone else who was in that area or knew someone who was I am so glad to hear that everyone is alright
As the President himself said, these sorts of things transcend political boundaries, and judging by the comments on here and my own feelings on the matter, national ones too.
Though some'll try to take advantage - they always do - the vast majority of people will keep a stiff upper lip, to use the age-old cliche, and show the people responsible that they will not be cowed.
The best response to terrorists is to show that they have no power over you, and carry on defiantly in the face of their actions.
I've never heard of any teenagers in a modern developed nation detonating a couple bombs just for the lolz. Even teens that would be inclined to mug someone, vandalize property, or commit a burglery. Its a huge step between that and setting a bomb off.
My point was that Teens can do stupid things without thinking of the repercussions, maybe they didn't know tge bomb was going to bs as powerful, hell 3 kids killed a homeless man a few days ago, up there age a bit, add stupididty and drugs and anything could happen
The Dark Apostle wrote: Haven't read the whole thread so there's prob sone news I don't now,
But anyway, back home in ireland theres some scumbags that call themselves the IRA, (they disgrace the proud name of the IRA that helped liberate my country from british rule) they are scum bags that do what they can for money and drama, they kill when they can and don't care, I'm sorry for this incident in Boston (hell Im 1/4 bostonish) buts Americas gotta stop getting so worked up with this, irelands been a horrible target for "terrorism" yet the only people that care is britian, that's only because there also targeted by the same people. My dearest sympathies to the targets of this, probably just scumbags looking for attention, or teenagers doing something "wild" and having it get out of hand.
I find the idea of this being cause by teens extremely unlikely, even if coked up to the eyeballs and so full of stupid they could power fifty Fox editorials.
For one thing, the blasts bookended the parade route, which speaks of malicious intent rather than "lol let's scare the bejesus out of some people."
Yeah, someone wanting to do that is just going to get some firecrackers or something. Not make an actual bomb, which requires a fair amount of planning and malicious intent. Not to mention some skill.
A person briefed on the Boston Marathon investigation says the explosives were in 6-liter pressure cookers and placed in black duffel bags.
The person says the explosives were placed on the ground and contained shards of metal, nails and ball bearings. The person spoke on the condition of anonymity because the investigation was ongoing.
The person says law enforcement officials have some of the bomb components but did not yet know what was used to set off the explosives.
You aren't the only person on the forums from Ireland, I grew up in the North during the Troubles. What happened in the North doesn't take away from the fact that innocent people have been killed and maimed. Just ask the family of the 8 year old boys who was killed after meeting his father at the finish line, his mother and sister are still being treated in hospital.
Absolutely horrible - and I'm going to take this opportunity to state my opposition to "The Dark Apostle" 's comments - because saying that "Americas gotta stop getting so worked up with this" is completely revolting in it's thoughtlessness.
Saying "Irelands been a horrible target for "terrorism"" doesn't make Boston any less of a terrible act - just because one person feels pain, does not make the pain of others irrelevant.
n this terrible situation, let's be very grateful that we had a well-funded, functioning government. It is very fashionable in America, and has been for some time to criticize government, belittle public employees, talk about their pensions, talk about what people think ... of [their] health care. Here we saw government in two ways perform very well.
One of the good things to come out of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars is medical knowledge for treating these types of injuries and new tech for the follow up prosthesis. The folks that do pull through (hopefully all) will benefit from this.
The Dark Apostle wrote: I know that other dark apostle, what I meant was that America expect so much sorrow yet they offer none to others, I never stated how that pain is irrelevant, and I'm very sorry if my comments sounded racist, or nationist if that's a word
Believe the word you're looking for is Nationalist, but I could be wrong, I was fething terrible in history class..
Also, you wanna clear up this statement: "America expects so much sorrow yet they offer non to others"?
One of the good things to come out of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars is medical knowledge for treating these types of injuries and new tech for the follow up prosthesis. The folks that do pull through (hopefully all) will benefit from this.
Hopefully they can afford the treatment :-\
I believe this was a similar issue with people injured during 9/11. They got injured, and couldn't afford the medical treatments
The Dark Apostle wrote: I know that other dark apostle, what I meant was that America expect so much sorrow yet they offer none to others, I never stated how that pain is irrelevant, and I'm very sorry if my comments sounded racist, or nationist if that's a word
Um... ex-squeeze me boyo...
What's this "America expect so much sorrow yet they offer none to others"???
edit: ninja'ed by Alfndrate...
From what I've seen they offer little,
A few days ago a house was invaded by the IRA, a man was tied down and shot infront of his families, America has been silent.
I have alot of anger towards America on numerous things and I'm sorry for putting my anger out like this, I'll delete the comment.
its not our fault that news doesn't reach us. We finally stopped paying attention to the IRA because they just don't deserve it. Its not that we don't care, its that it just doesn't get brought to our attention.
kronk wrote: Gents. Hit the yellow triangle of friendship and move on, please.
I would, but I certainly don't think DA is breaking any level of Dakka rules, I'm just a little confused about this.
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The Dark Apostle wrote: From what I've seen they offer little, A few days ago a house was invaded by the IRA, a man was tied down and shot infront of his families, America has been silent. I have alot of anger towards America on numerous things and I'm sorry for putting my anger out like this, I'll delete the comment.
Okay, like Gray Templar said, it's very possible that it just didn't reach us here in America, condolences man...
Also, to the colossal donkey-cave that did this... I hope whatever hole you're hiding in offers you no respite, and no peace for the pure and simple fact that this little boy isn't here anymore, and for the fact that you ripped a family apart. While the Martin Richard rests peacefully, his father has to mourn his death, and pray that his wife and daughter...
Thank you alfndrate, I just want people to realise that there are equally horrible things going on else where. Most of which get little to no coverage.
I don't see DA's comments as flamebait. His point is, hey, why am I hearing about Boston when you never heard about Dublin? Is America really so special that American tragedies are more tragic. I hope everyone knows the answer to that is No. Then how do we explain why this is such a big issue comparatively? Maybe because it's rarer? DA didn't say, as MT11 warned people not to, that Boston or the USA deserved these events.
So stop piling in on him for posting something critical. Just because a bomb goes off, just because people get hurt, doesn't mean we turn off our brains.
Thank you Manchu, you see what I was trying to say, I've got a bad strength at stringing sentences together due to a misfire of dyslexia and English not being a first language.
MetalOxide wrote: Terrorist bombings in America and Iraq, suicides, earthquakes all happening in one day... welcome to planet earth, have a miserable stay.
People sharing good times, family and friends caring for each other, strangers helping one another out, great art (and even bad art) being made, laughter, and wiener dogs roaming the plains all happening in one day...welcome to planet Earth, your stay will be as enjoyable as you choose to make it.
MetalOxide wrote: Terrorist bombings in America and Iraq, suicides, earthquakes all happening in one day... welcome to planet earth, have a miserable stay.
People sharing good times, family and friends caring for each other, strangers helping one another out, great art (and even bad art) being made, laughter, and wiener dogs roaming the plains all happening in one day...welcome to planet Earth, your stay will be as enjoyable as you choose to make it.
Wiener dogs always brighten up the day.
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The Dark Apostle wrote: That's a good idea, I think I should make a thread showing all the trouble that goes on in the world that you SHOULD be hearing..... Thank you
Please do, there is news that is not getting enough media coverage.
kronk wrote: He edited the post in question, which is very much what MajorTom's post is about, Manchu.
I read his pre-edited comment and that is what I was referring to in my post. It was not against our site's rules.
I think it's quite a good thing to point out that this kind of attack is and has been a fact of life elsewhere in the world. We Americans would do well to consider that as the coverage ramps up, not because any American lives lost or disrupted are less valuable for that reason, but because events like these should make us think critically rather than self-righteously.
The Barney Frank thing is a great example. Yes, thank goodness we do have the government services we do. Not only would yesterday have been a lot worse if the anti-government demographic in this country had its way but these kind of bombings would probably be more frequent.
The Dark Apostle wrote: From what I've seen they offer little,
A few days ago a house was invaded by the IRA, a man was tied down and shot infront of his families, America has been silent.
I have alot of anger towards America on numerous things and I'm sorry for putting my anger out like this, I'll delete the comment.
I'm trying to understand why you you're angry at the US for it. The US has nothing to do with the IRA, or Ireland for that matter. Indeed, until a discussion on this board a few weeks ago, I didn't even know the IRA still existed.
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The Dark Apostle wrote: That's a good idea, I think I should make a thread showing all the trouble that goes on in the world that you SHOULD be hearing..... Thank you
Make one. I'll troll it like you're trolling this one mayhaps.
MetalOxide wrote: Terrorist bombings in America and Iraq, suicides, earthquakes all happening in one day... welcome to planet earth, have a miserable stay.
People sharing good times, family and friends caring for each other, strangers helping one another out, great art (and even bad art) being made, laughter, and wiener dogs roaming the plains all happening in one day...welcome to planet Earth, your stay will be as enjoyable as you choose to make it.
n this terrible situation, let's be very grateful that we had a well-funded, functioning government. It is very fashionable in America, and has been for some time to criticize government, belittle public employees, talk about their pensions, talk about what people think ... of [their] health care. Here we saw government in two ways perform very well.
Yeah, let's whip that political storm up, Moderator.
n this terrible situation, let's be very grateful that we had a well-funded, functioning government. It is very fashionable in America, and has been for some time to criticize government, belittle public employees, talk about their pensions, talk about what people think ... of [their] health care. Here we saw government in two ways perform very well.
Yeah, let's whip that political storm up, Moderator.
How about this:
Here we saw government in two ways perform very well.
Kronk how was I being trollish? I worded my sentence badly, but Manchu corrected me. Think of other countries, and how much they suffer, this morning in Pakistan, 12 people were killed in a very similar incident to that in Boston. In a year today, I won't be seeing a memorial to them will I?
The Dark Apostle wrote: Kronk how was I being trollish? I worded my sentence badly, but Manchu corrected me. Think of other countries, and how much they suffer, this morning in Pakistan, 12 people were killed in a very similar incident to that in Boston. In a year today, I won't be seeing a memorial to them will I?
Maybe that's a discussion for another thread, like the one you said that you would create.
don't take long does it eh ?
that killed an 8 year old kid
