Doing some rough, rough philisophical math. If PB has about two employees working the swap (they only have 6 employees in the first place, Kevin isn’t going to be pulled away from photographing geese and they still have to handle the “day to day” Christmas bundle requests), and they can process an order start to finish in about 30 minutes with a 7 hour workday (got do the “start your morning” thing and “just got back from lunch” thing), that’s about 14 orders per employee - roughly 28, maybe 30 orders a day.
Since it took them a week to respond to my e-mail I sent on the last day, and will take probably another week to actually pull anything, it looks like they have about 6 (work) weeks worth of orders to pull, total.
That would indicate somewhere around 900 swaps in total. Around about 16% of backers taking the swap. Which would have been a percent above the top I’d have gueesed without the psuedomath.
TalonZahn wrote: I might have mentioned it before, but will again...
My bet is that PB wanted to exchange first with the heavy hitters in the Pledge Manager / Backer Kit.
The people they owed larger amounts of money probably got priority because if they can clear out the big fish, the little ones are less likely to go after them... maybe?
I don't know that this is the case. I put in my message rather late (3/15) and only had a Showdown with $90 extra but I got my RRV very rapidly (received 3/28).
I posted my exact timeline to the comments on the KS.
n815e wrote: Not that I expected anything different, but:
1) people are complaining that they submitted their lists early and are only just hearing back
2) they are being told that what they requested is out of stock
3) yet anyone who gave them a call got instantaneous service
4) which completely contradicts their statement that lists were filled in the order that they came
5) out of stock items include common expansion boxes like Spartans which were still in stock to buy on their site from non-backers until 4/2
I think n815e may be closer to the case. I did follow their exact instructions, had all my info ahead (RRV, backer #, etc...), and called them to follow-up.
I think that they are pulling the calls first as they fear continued calls. They certainly are not pulling them in the order received.
And (not to make anyone feel bad) I got my Spartans and a Miryia.
Of course, it may also matter who you speak to. The first person I spoke with seemed harried/disinterested but I spoke with Alex in the later contacts and he was both professional and pleasant.
It does make me sad to see things like that... Makes me wonder what the game could have been..
Instead of the train wreak it became...
As for how many people took the trade deal.. no one outside of Palladium will never know..
Just doing napkin math.. I think only about 20% of the backer took the deal..
They still owe me about $150 in product (now a refund per the TOS) and if I am the average
customer they need about 40k to cover it.. I don't think they have ever made that kind of money
in the past few years outside of the kickstarter..
https://www.facebook.com/capricon.org/ Kevin is a "Guest of Honor" at Capricon this year
People are letting the convention know what kind of man this is. I think anyone who has a FB account should.
dreamakuma wrote: https://www.facebook.com/capricon.org/
Kevin is a "Guest of Honor" at Capricon this year
People are letting the convention know what kind of man this is. I think anyone who has a FB account should.
He needs to be blacklisted from the industry.
Apparently Capricon are taking it into account. Granted they've just form lettered most posts with the following message, but it is something at least, and we'll see what the response is after they've had some time to reconsider.
"Capricon Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I have no official statement right now, but please know that what you have written is being looked into."
This is RRT-scaled and done with an Anycubic Photon DLP printer that's being sold at Amazon for less than $500
I'm really interested in buying this 3d printer but i thought that this one was not really easy to handle.
Can you give me your opinion ? Do you have any tips useful ?
Well, I don't have it yet so any information is hearsay more than anything, but a couple of acquaintances already got them, and they were very positive. It's 90% ready to go right out of the box except for bank calibration, and at least with the UV resin included the test results they've shown me were surprisingly good.
Some people on the FB group for the printer have been collating the temp, curing time per layer and so on needed to use for best results with a fair amount of different resins, so that would be a good place to start.
dreamakuma wrote: https://www.facebook.com/capricon.org/
Kevin is a "Guest of Honor" at Capricon this year
People are letting the convention know what kind of man this is. I think anyone who has a FB account should.
He needs to be blacklisted from the industry.
Apparently Capricon are taking it into account. Granted they've just form lettered most posts with the following message, but it is something at least, and we'll see what the response is after they've had some time to reconsider.
"Capricon Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I have no official statement right now, but please know that what you have written is being looked into."
It looks like the photo announcement and associated comments have be pulled; wonder if this means they'll be announcing a revised guest, or just hoping no one else asks?
TwoGunBob wrote: Word came down from Capricon that Siembieda has been removed as guest of honor.
Yep, see no Kevin in the "special guest" pull-down.
You know, this is exactly the kind of stuff that hurts/enrages Kevin: not getting his attention fix.
Still do not see him listed in Anime North In May just yet.
Ah well, as long as anyone is willing to RPG with him as GM, it is all good.
It is very important to be able to create worlds where you are in control.
Still, it looks like Palladium Books backed out of the convention.
Better to decide you did not want to be there, than to be told not to come.
Proof of more than just a "vocal minority" would be hard to dismiss as well.
I must thank those who were willing to go so far as signing the "ban", with this project apathy is becoming the norm.
The "justice" is rather slight all things considered.
I bet Palladium Books is sitting on more money than they ever had, despite protests to the contrary.
If the community remains vocal and pressures every venue that Palladium wishes to attend, that's another.
Yes, the biggest hit is against Kevin's ego, but even if they only sell a few books and some pencils, it's still a reduced option from an already paltry list of potential sources of profit.
And unlike much 'internet outrage', it's well deserved at that. A signal that one doesn't get to lie to, mislead, and obfuscate matters for thousands of backers for nearly half a decade and then say 'oops, nothing to be done, want some junk, also peace we out' and not suffer the consequences of that notoriety.
Luckily for us, they thrive on self driven publicity. Every event they plan to attend, every possible award or commendation they are supposed to be granted, will be announced well ahead of time. Which gives people time to, in turn, express their displeasure.
A number of people with differing opinions (or just outright trolling) have demanded 'oh yeah, what are you gonna do!' to backers who were angry or frustrated. Well, surprise surprise, there are avenues other than 'do nothing' and 'spend thousands of dollars on a court case'. In this day and age of social media, pissing off a large number of people can be its own consequence, and one that remains for quite some time.
Forar got about the size of it. It takes nothing more than a few minutes to rattle off a couple emails regarding Palladium's handling of things to places that might not be in the know. I just generally seem to have a few minutes when I'm letting a miniature dry or resting my hands from balalaika practice to write an email or two. Palladium is far, far from some untouchable goliath in the gaming industry. Being a (virtually) one man operation (as Kevin tries to plead to the various Attorney Generals apparently) also ties these ramifications to one man's ego. A very large ego as well that really feels the smite of such things.
I said on the KS site, Kevin was probably all kinds of puffed up that being Guest of Honor meant that he handled the Kickstarter right and his decisions hadn't affected his reputation at all. This convention, around since 1986, was honoring him!
Oops!
No, they don't want to honor a man that has done wrong by 5,342 people in a niche hobby, imagine that.
Albertorius wrote: Well... that reminds me maybe we should write to GenCon.
I mean, they're still going, right?
I'd be surprised if they didn't. They've been going for ages, and have a fairly sizable booth. If Gencon is anything like the conventions that I work with my friend's booth, they may even pay a deposit up front for the following year, possibly at or just after the convention itself. Unless they were in absolute dire financial straits (and yes, while I'm sure they're in a bad place, we've seen them muddle along selling decks of cards, mugs, and pencils, they seem to be remarkably resilient from actually hitting zero), I think they kind of have to attend. To get the most out of what resources they've already committed, and as (what I assume to be) one of their larger sources of profit. I'm guessing grab bags, Gencon, whatever they get from the occasional group holding TV/movie/game/whatever rights to one of their IPs, and their meager release schedule are basically what keep the lights on. Not an exhaustive list, but I'm guessing other stuff like Kevin's eBay store aren't exactly bringing in the big bucks.
If PB were told they weren't welcome at Gencon, I think it's safe to say that it would hurt them, on several levels.
Yeah, those seemingly arbitrary blankets over pallets don't look suspicious at all.
AT. ALL.
I mean, it COULD be anything. But they have no problem leaving other pallets uncovered.
If it turns out it is RRT product... it would not surprise me that they're so stupid. Cause being stupendously dumb AND utterly brazen about thinking they won't get caught, is kind of their standard operating procedure.
Kind of amazing that they actually included geese photos in that album. Ironic self awareness or true dedication? For those wondering how much the flock of true believers had dwindled down there only appear to be a couple dozen unique individuals in the photos, even before subtracting staff and artists/authors who may be more vendors than fans.
Yeah, those seemingly arbitrary blankets over pallets don't look suspicious at all.
AT. ALL.
Initially i could have passed it off as 'use blankets to provide a backdrop so the warehouse doesnt look messy' but when you have blankets hanging from the 1st tier of racking it shows that it is about covering up something and not just making the place look nice.
Did you notice the pallets in the middle of the aisle actually had he blankets wrapped the the pallets with black wrap lol
The open house pictures got me curious. I went back and looked through the RRT updates, and found some interesting pictures back in update #160 - "Shipping Shifts into High Gear Tomorrow"
I couldn't find numbers on how much had been produced for the other items
What got me thinking about this is the clearly visible RRT stock (for sale?) in the left-hand side of this picture from OH. I wonder which add-ons those are besides the core boxes - Valks? And I just noticed there is a bonus bag sitting on top of the core box pile...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wow, compare the 2018 OH to the 2015 OH, and you can tell they have declined quite dramatically, and they still have practically the same amount of RRT stock filling their warehouse.
Even just comparing the RRT games is a huge difference - swarms of painted figures (at least 12 armies), extravagant tables AND ships in 2015 - to barely 3 tables with poorly assembled terrain or just flat cut-out 2D terrain for the games.
Stormonu wrote: The open house pictures got me curious. I went back and looked through the RRT updates, and found some interesting pictures back in update #160 - "Shipping Shifts into High Gear Tomorrow"
I couldn't find numbers on how much had been produced for the other items
What got me thinking about this is the clearly visible RRT stock (for sale?) in the left-hand side of this picture from OH. I wonder which add-ons those are besides the core boxes - Valks? And I just noticed there is a bonus bag sitting on top of the core box pile...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wow, compare the 2018 OH to the 2015 OH, and you can tell they have declined quite dramatically, and they still have practically the same amount of RRT stock filling their warehouse.
Even just comparing the RRT games is a huge difference - swarms of painted figures (at least 12 armies), extravagant tables AND ships in 2015 - to barely 3 tables with poorly assembled terrain or just flat cut-out 2D terrain for the games.
Thanks for your post. I think Palladium Books Open House 2018 is really small compare to 2015. I just saw the pics on PBFB and still looks like a very small turn out. I wonder why?
In either picture there is less than 50 people pictured. That is not lot of attendees, If a local comic convention only had
50 people attend they would think it was a failure..
Still feel there needs to be some kind of push to Gen Con to boot Palladium from the Convention.
I am sure they will not offer any type of true refund by then; So if they don't have any money..
They don't need to make the expense of travel, lodging, etc...
Plus didn't Peter that owns Gen Con have a bad history with Kevin??
They sued his small game company called Wizards of the Coast for including conversions to the Palladium system in their universal supplement line.
Pretty much tanked the RPG plans and forced them to publish some small card game instead...
ThaneCawdor wrote: They sued his small game company called Wizards of the Coast for including conversions to the Palladium system in their universal supplement line.
Pretty much tanked the RPG plans and forced them to publish some small card game instead...
It will not matter... till it does.
They can still say they are dealing with orders prior to the drop dead date.
I suspect May 1st will be the "true" drop dead date where they can be questioned on "progress".
On a side note, we were having some discussions on Facebook and I wondered aloud what would become of the mold assets.
I got some reply that a "typical" method is to rent out the molds as needed so if no-one pays for them in a while the Chinese company can run some of their own parts.
So, did Palladium actually spend money on "rental" dies?
This is Palladium Books but any dealings I have had in China with molds we made sure the assets had a property label and a signed agreement we owned them.
IF these rental molds are a real thing, that could explain the insane production run of Wave 1, PB being the cheap folk they are.
But one would think a huge expense was mitigated a fair bit, which makes me think they pocketed a fair bit of money anyway (or were royally fleeced... which is not inconceivable).
Just trying to make sense of a situation that will soon be a moot point.
<edit> I agree on the open house blanket covers: there are some that cover on a second level here and there that gives a definite appearance of targeted rather than just to pretty things up.
The case could have been made if it was consistent only at floor level.
That is a mixed feeling looking at the RRT tables for play at the open house.
There are like two that are noticeable: the "world tour" table sporting our CN tower and a pyramid and then the Dropzone Commander City (I have been using that but got other stuff on the go).
Some tables out there are truly epic that the "home" of RRT could not be bothered to reach out to.
If I were them... <shudder> giving away a fair bit of product would be an easy thing to do to get them to come out.
So many missed opportunities, just no clue of how to create a community... they seem more and more a cult than a company that makes product for a common customer base.
Well, i guess PB must want me to contiue waiting for the class action suit, as they haven’t sent me a shipping quote.
I’m actually not sure which way I’d rather go - get minis I’m not really interested in and be done with this farce, or get nothing and hope a classaction manifests that puts PB out of our misery.
Stormonu wrote: I’m actually not sure which way I’d rather go - get minis I’m not really interested in and be done with this farce, or get nothing and hope a classaction manifests that puts PB out of our misery.
Win-win??
I keep going through this weird thought process:
1) PB seems to regularly misrepresent what they do so they need some negative stimulus to get it to stop (not excluding closing doors as a permanent stop).
2) They are so... horrible in how they do things you can almost feel sorry for how bad they are.
3) Just looking at the open house pictures, the place is depressing, disorganization or lack of care is apparent. Putting them out of their misery seems like a kindness, almost.
4) Some customers just love their product and truly are "fan-friends" and it would be the end if they closed their doors. But so many customers dealing with PB wonder what planet they are dealing with and is a rather jarring example of not playing by what was thought to be mutually agreed rules.
5) The business really is Kevin. In person he is personable enough BUT you can see it is his way or the highway in all things in short order. Toppling a dictatorship is almost always satisfying as many revolutions could attest.
6) They really are small in the scheme of things which Kevin spins the large corporate leader or small mom/pop business as the need suits. For customer protection actions their out-reach pretty much ended with this kickstarter. It is only a matter of time.
7) Palladium now only has Rifts as any recognizable brand. They had TMNT and Robotech and let each of those drop. I suspect next year's open house (if there is one) will be an awfully empty warehouse. Could have a couple games of basketball going.
#1 reason why I did not take the refund-in-kind is I would like their company's demise to be "natural".
I suspect the shipping cost is a bit over inflated and i do not want to contribute to zombie PB.
I still like to lay claim to my modest amount of money owed, there is no real "highground" to take the trade and then complain.
So the arguably foolish reason to be justified to give bad press to Palladium Books as the situation and mood suits me.
I find it terribly odd that I am STILL not ready for closure, I think so-far they have been let off too easy.
There is a suggestion on the Lawsuit Facebook that Harmony Gold has required Paladium to hand over all the remaining stock which they are having shipped to a liquidator.
Ctaylor wrote: That would make sense, especially if PB owes royalties to Harmony Gold.
As much that, as I think Harmony Gold not trusting PB to not do something incredibly shady. Because would YOU trust Kevin Siembeda?
That could be anything from preventing PB claiming to have destroyed stock that they sold to a "friend", to Harmony Gold wanting to double check their royalty accounts, if they were getting an additional royalty per box.
In the latter, we know that 17,502 cores were sold. PB have accounts of what backers needed. PB would have made claims about sales over the past 3.5 years. Harmony Gold having a liquidator receive and inventory the stock, gives the final number. If the number from all three is significantly less than 17,502, then PB have a problem.
I can throw the planet further than I trust Kevin. Maybe Harmony Gold feels the same.
There is a suggestion on the Lawsuit Facebook that Harmony Gold has required Paladium to hand over all the remaining stock which they are having shipped to a liquidator.
Sounds like the "right" thing to do.
HG will own the property, their money making days are numbered so they will perform a literal cash-grab before their IP product disappears in the tender care of PB.
I am curious where we will see the RRT sale next?
I feel a curious feeling of leniency for a liquidator getting my money who already bought the stuff: the money transaction already occured, no royalty kickbacks being handed out.
Well, things are heating up and PB is 98% of the way of going "back to normal".
Wonder what the final parting kiss-off post will be for the RRTKS page?
I used to have a fairly substantial collection of the Rifts CCG cards. Like, as recently as half a decade ago. One day, while going through a bunch of stuff after a move, I found them, and decided to figure out their rarities. Pulled the rarest cards/ones I liked the artwork on, and threw out the rest (and nothing of value was lost).
Obviously even the 'rarest' cards hold just shy of zero value as anything but kindling (and even then, I believe ccg cards aren't great to be around while burning due to the inks and coatings and whatnot), but despite my disdain for the company, I do have a bit of a collection of odd/assorted cards from various CCGs over the years. Did you know there was a 24 CCG? It was... not great, best I could tell (history seems to back me up on this). Never actually played it, but I was marathon'ing the seasons pretty hard for a while there.
But I'm getting astray from my original point. Which was that the Rifts CCG wasn't very good either (as can be expected, but this was almost 20 years ago, so my taste and understanding of the depths of their villainy had yet to fully form).
I am curious where we will see the RRT sale next?
I feel a curious feeling of leniency for a liquidator getting my money who already bought the stuff: the money transaction already occured, no royalty kickbacks being handed out.
An interesting question; Miniature Market seems to be a common destination for such things, but since they likely just got rid of their cores how likely would they be to want to pick up more. At the same time, at liquidation prices they might be able to move some with the "look at the crazy savings versus retail (that nobody with much sense would have ever paid)!" style of promotion.
I guess it boils down to what the hypothetical liquidation price ends up being. While I'd imagine most vendors have already been burned by how slow-moving most of the stock is on the shelf, for a low-enough price it might be worth taking on. Morbid curiosity and a sufficiently low price might actually get me to buy a core. Pretty sure I have some room on the shelf next to Dreadfleet...
Mysterio wrote:I think we're due a "Don't even think about suing us!" update soon, yes?
I think that would be at least half of it but I agree it would be guaranteed to have some roundabout mention.
A little bit of throwing the bus on people, a bit of "we really did our best for our much beloved fan-friends", some statement of "trusting too much" and about getting back to their "core strengths".
Forar wrote:But I'm getting astray from my original point. Which was that the Rifts CCG wasn't very good either (as can be expected, but this was almost 20 years ago, so my taste and understanding of the depths of their villainy had yet to fully form).
Yeah, PB villainy usually extends to what is expedient at the time.
Krinsath wrote:Morbid curiosity and a sufficiently low price might actually get me to buy a core. Pretty sure I have some room on the shelf next to Dreadfleet...
I would be tempted to grab a couple more, some of my plans may burn through a few models.
Slow but sure I will have a "complete" RRT to my satisfaction.
Some crazy people have gone fully into part 2 and 3 into the saga... I am not quite ready to delve into that madness just yet.
Some people suggest that this is Harmony Gold or Palladium looking to silence things.
That doesn't appear to be the case. The infringement names someone who I believe is a backer, who has a very short (a couple seconds at most) video clip from his own YouTube channel included, that I don't recall having audio.
The reason for the takedown is a copyright claim, which suggests that there was a lack of permission (if needed), or a lack of credit (if needed), or possibly a minor defamation (if the filer didn't like the portrayal) and that the usage doesn't fall into the fair use allowances of either the US or YouTube. Or YouTube just overreacted until things can get sorted out. Which would surprise me, given YouTube's tolerance of MASSIVE donkey-caves on their website, both creators and especially commentors.
So this isn't a conspiracy by the powers that be. The backer in question has been a vocal critic of Palladium for the last couple years, including throwing a fairly public tantrum in the Kickstarter commentary, so I think this is just an ego issue.
There is a suggestion on the Lawsuit Facebook that Harmony Gold has required Paladium to hand over all the remaining stock which they are having shipped to a liquidator.
Its amusing that they have painted themselves into a corner with this one.
In my (limited)experience with expiration of rights the company can either 1) provide certificates of destruction of the products or 2) sell the remaining stock to the new rights holder at cost (if they want them). Before this happens though the company usually heavily discounts the product to clear as much as possible to still make some profit but in this case they couldn't discount the product due to trying to present the highest value to the KS refunds.
I hope Kevvie has been squirming on this for awhile, im sure he would have much preferred to dump the lot and make $5 a box than having 30? pallets of stock sitting there doing nothing. Even dumping them at cost would have turned boxes into $$$$
And I hope who ever made the strike against the video did their homework.
I know Youtube's automatic reaction for any rule break is to take the video down, then resolve.
When dealing with legal stuff, you would think an acting lawyer is someone that usually knows
the boundaries more than normal people. But someone could also make an new account, then
put a strike against any video. Something goes wrong.. close the old account and make a new account.
Speaking of lawyers, it seems like Palladium won't budge on refunds of money unless you have a
court case against them.. And I am sure they would just keep asking for extensions..
Speaking of lawyers, it seems like Palladium won't budge on refunds of money unless you have a
court case against them.. And I am sure they would just keep asking for extensions..
Where did Palladium 'clarify' their stance as this?
Even dumping them at cost would have turned boxes into $$$$
Palladium's cost was $0.
A very important point to make clear.
Think PB did not profit from this?
When I see a local hobby shop still flogging some $34 add-on kits of RRT, nevermind any "remaining" funds if they were not all used on retail stock.
No matter how i look at it, it seems PB looking to make the most of the money "they have" and trying to make it money "that is theirs".
I am sure any lawsuit filed against them will be funded by that money since it does involve RRT so is justified.
Yep, still bitter.
Genoside07 wrote: And I hope who ever made the strike against the video did their homework.
I know Youtube's automatic reaction for any rule break is to take the video down, then resolve.
When dealing with legal stuff, you would think an acting lawyer is someone that usually knows the boundaries more than normal people. But someone could also make an new account, then put a strike against any video. Something goes wrong.. close the old account and make a new account.
Well, the video is up in an unmodified form (ie, the couple of seconds clip that caused the issue in the first place is STILL included), so it seems it was an automatic reaction thing.
So it appears the video's author was able to explain why his usage of that clip was legitimate (or the complainant had a change of heart), and hopefully we don't get more fethery and everyone who wants to see the video can do so.
I know what you are alluding to but there was still a $$$ cost as that money could have gone into other important things like framing geese pictures, mustache wax or denim jeans.
I was thinking about the offer the liquidators would offer.. Just last Christmas I saw a few times the core box set marked at $20 and still not sold.
Looking at the eBay prices they are all over the place but it seems the market has hit it's saturation point. So unless they buy each box set for
next to nothing I don't think it will be worth their time after paying shipping to location and inventory management.
That's the thing with liquidation through an agent - it goes for what it goes for - you don't get a say in it. There's no offer - you agree, in advance, to trust the liquidators' assessment.
They will pay our far less than they think they can sell it for. Given it's not shifting significantly at $35/core, they might try and pitch it at $15, and buy at $5.
However, even this is doubtful, if the liquidators do their homework (and they usually do) - the game is DEAD - stillborn.
This makes it very, very unappealing to the broader market of minis gamers in general, which in itself is horrendously niche. The physical stock remaining is frankly next to worthless by the time you factor in cost of sales.
Effectively, if I were PB I'd realistically expect scrap value only - weight of plastic and card for recycling. We're not talking about bankrupt stock iPads or laptops here.
I think my wife threatened my miniatures with that if I "messed around":
Place on cooking sheet, put in oven at about 400 deg F until "done", repeat till all items are processed.
She is such a kidder! Little risk there since I am a basement dwelling troll that goes outside to do yard-work and little else. <edit> Where else would I find anyone remotely as exciting as her??
I may go to her for advice on what to do about Palladium Books, I may have to edit her recommendations for the more sensitive types...
Will the license ever really run out? I think Kevin n' Scooter have done more updates since February in rapid succession than we've EVER seen in this Kickfalter.
They sound like the furniture store near me that was CLOSING and LIQUIDATING their inventory when I first moved to town twenty friggin months ago and they're still there.
The sound level was more manageable thanks to Scott’s research about “moving blankets” used to muffle sound. We hung approximately 80 of these cheap, light, gray blankets all over the pallets to muffle sound, and it worked.
Ah, not a huge difference in absorption coefficient of cardboard vs. blankets (depending on density and surface shape), some difference, but are not a priority target.
The more effective application would to have hangings on the cinderblock walls and some carpets on cement floors since they are the most "reflective".
Basically, HUGE bull-pucks on that fine research.
I find it funny they felt they needed to say anything about the blankets, especially since they were so targeted... why do people give such good evidence they are lying? Why?
I think I am more upset they are that dumb (or think we are) than the actual lie... I really have priority problems.
I must also add, you would need a given density of noise sources before the decibel level would need managing (how many people attended??)... but Kevin always had trouble hearing us:
One would think he was more concerned with muffling the look/sound of failure literally all around him.
Automatically Appended Next Post: One added note:
Battletech just got released for the PC.
I like what I have seen so-far.
I think after this weekend, I have no reason to even look at Kickstarter.
I am uncertain if I want to use them again, I still feel crowdsourcing has it's place but "pre-order" no matter how you look at it ultimately seems like a fool's game.
I think I am tired with the constant push to make the consumer take the risk and do the work.
- Don't have money for the project you want to work on? Get people to give you money.
- Fall through on the agreement? Up to the consumer to enforce.
Yep, love doing "investments" so other people can play with my money... no, I do a better job managing it myself thanks.
Don't get me started on self-check-out , I blame the loss of full-service gas stations for that one.
I am feeling a very "get off my lawn" old guy moment.
I will shut up now and look forward to playing more Battletech.
Been to a full-service station in Oregon; didn't like it. On the other hand, I can't stand stores where I have to bag my own groceries - go figure.
Thanks to Robotech and a few other KS's - many of which I luckily did not get involved in at the last moment (AVP, Tom Reidy's scam, Conan, All Quiet on the Martian Front), I decided that Kickstarter was not the platform for me, and deleted my account. The wait times are a year + out, quality is not assured and if things go sideways, you're at the mercy of the creator. It just wasn't worth the risk for me - I'll just wait for retail, others can take the risks.
And I still haven't heard back from THESE idiots about swapping out.
winterdyne wrote: That's the thing with liquidation through an agent - it goes for what it goes for - you don't get a say in it. There's no offer - you agree, in advance, to trust the liquidators' assessment.
They will pay our far less than they think they can sell it for. Given it's not shifting significantly at $35/core, they might try and pitch it at $15, and buy at $5.
However, even this is doubtful, if the liquidators do their homework (and they usually do) - the game is DEAD - stillborn.
This makes it very, very unappealing to the broader market of minis gamers in general, which in itself is horrendously niche. The physical stock remaining is frankly next to worthless by the time you factor in cost of sales.
Effectively, if I were PB I'd realistically expect scrap value only - weight of plastic and card for recycling. We're not talking about bankrupt stock iPads or laptops here.
I'd easily pay $15 for a core box, maybe $30 for two...if they are part of an order with free shipping.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Talizar, it really is the coverup and not the crime that gets them.
That is a big lesson in life in a nutshell:
I just wrote about a 5 line rant on this topic and deleted it.
More than a few people will be happy to see PB go back to being some irrelevant RPG company.
Stormonu wrote: Been to a full-service station in Oregon; didn't like it. On the other hand, I can't stand stores where I have to bag my own groceries - go figure.
Thanks to Robotech and a few other KS's - many of which I luckily did not get involved in at the last moment (AVP, Tom Reidy's scam, Conan, All Quiet on the Martian Front), I decided that Kickstarter was not the platform for me, and deleted my account. The wait times are a year + out, quality is not assured and if things go sideways, you're at the mercy of the creator. It just wasn't worth the risk for me - I'll just wait for retail, others can take the risks.
And I still haven't heard back from THESE idiots about swapping out.
I find most grocery clerks can't pack a bag to save their lives.
No bread and eggs don't go under the cans of tomatoes.
Don't even get me started on the morons that pack stuff for you at Costco....
My old-man rant for the day....
....anyways back on topic!
ThaneCawdor wrote: They sued his small game company called Wizards of the Coast for including conversions to the Palladium system in their universal supplement line.
Pretty much tanked the RPG plans and forced them to publish some small card game instead...
Something else to blame Palladium for!
Yes, because The Primal Order (name of the books, I still have them all) was really well written and great potential. I hope they put it out again after Kevin dies.
The sound level was more manageable thanks to Scott’s research about “moving blankets” used to muffle sound. We hung approximately 80 of these cheap, light, gray blankets all over the pallets to muffle sound, and it worked.
He mentions the Rifts Kickstarter had some trouble and they are looking at other things.
Also one of the first things he talks about is his Dyslexia; In another interview Mike Leonard
does the same thing by mentioning his Augsburg right out of the gate.
Why even mention this...??? It has nothing do with anything, There a ton a people that function
in everyday life with the same conditions and would never mention it.
It's like going into a job interview and introducing yourself. "Hi my name is Bob and I have athlete foot"...
May first is right around the corner and I am putting my money that we will get one more update about need
to get your requests in quickly .. then dead silence..I guess I can go to the local court house and file in small claims court.
Theophony wrote: Wonder where they got the money for the blankets?
Exactly, buying blankets to avoid having to destroy remaining product sounds like throwing good money after bad to me. Like, I kinda wonder if they can make enough money selling RRT on the sly to even cover the cost of the blankets.
n815e wrote: They'll need them when Kevin has the heat and the lights off next winter to save money.
I seem to remember a while back, some contract staff commenting on almost everything having the lights off to save money and Kevin being the light police.
The blankets... yeah, I can totally see them keeping the place a couple degrees above freezing.
Could have committed in writing to use the RRT material to burn for heat, good excuse to keep it around.
Happily, I have been practicing up on character models for 40k and my son has got into Gundam models.
I now have "leveled up" and may have better skills for doing those tiny panel lines on the VT's.
They were looking pretty bad for my initial work but is a bit better now.
A few options are:
- Use the high wicking "washes" to flow in the panel lines (GW "shade" or acrylic "ink" with flow-aid added). For a cleaner look it is to be done after a hard coat, for a bit dirtier look, apply over normal paint.
- Gundam pens, cleanup is suggested using a new eraser. I have a few and will try it out. Most of these were designed to apply directly to the coloured plastic rather than a painted model.
- Pigment powder: dust on, push it around, dust it off.
- Last method is... strange: airbrush along the panel lines with a black or dark brown paint (0.2mm needle in my case), no need to be neat then do progressive layers of airbrushing over the whole surface. The lines are visible, a bit muted but have a more reserved look to it.
Problem is, I have a couple character models to finish and post... about time I will have something reasonable in my gallery.
Still love the look of the models despite the pain they are to assemble.
Looks like I am on the hunt now for a bunch of Zentradi infantry.
Here is hoping I can get something that does not cost a fortune.
Looks like I am on the hunt now for a bunch of Zentradi infantry.
Here is hoping I can get something that does not cost a fortune.
Also looking for Zentraedi infantry Units, any clue where i can find some ?
Plastic Cretins used to sell them but it seems that they can't be sold anymore.
Man, those look so great. Really makes me sad for what could have been, but with PB out of the way, I think things may actually in better shape (modelwise).
Wouldn’t it be a kick in the teeth if the game got popular now - with a non-RRT ruleset?
After 7 phone calls and 5 emails PB finally gets back to me to tell me that just about everything I want is out of stock and I need to redo my order, despite my email list etc being sent to them right after the announcement. Well I have never sent an email with that much profanity in it. I am now sure that my list is again on the bottom of the pile.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: So beautiful, that's all I wanted, did I want too much?
Unfortunately it appears you did.
The good thing is the Robotech bunch of fanatics appear to be a supportive group: getting what you want/need works out well.
It may take some time or money however, but it has been a positive experience unlike well... the Palladium administered wedgie.
Happily, I have been practicing up on character models for 40k and my son has got into Gundam models.
I now have "leveled up" and may have better skills for doing those tiny panel lines on the VT's.
They were looking pretty bad for my initial work but is a bit better now.
A few options are:
I'll toss this one out there: archival ink pens (not sure if these are the same as Gundam pens though). With the black ink ones I have, they're initially very dark when applied, but that would likely pair very well with a cel-shaded painting style like one would go for on anime models; I'm personally expecting the matte varnish I use to temper that nicely on the "realistic" models. I've been using them on my FoW/TY tanks for doing the panel lines and they're dramatically faster than inks, and much easier to control because...well, they're pens and not as runny as a sufficient amount of ink to darken some shades of paint. Doesn't mean they can't be farked up (since I've managed it many times), but the results have been much more consistent than using washes. YMMV depending on what you're looking to get, but they're not horrendously expensive and can be found in art supply stores as well as the usual online retailers. Haven't looked at the panel lines on a RRT mini to see, but the lines on a 15mm tank aren't particularly huge either.
Something to look into at any rate; even if it's not for you at least you had the option to review it.
Theophony wrote: Wonder where they got the money for the blankets?
Exactly, buying blankets to avoid having to destroy remaining product sounds like throwing good money after bad to me. Like, I kinda wonder if they can make enough money selling RRT on the sly to even cover the cost of the blankets.
Maybe the blankets are just for what they planned for... Moving Blankets...no way Palladium can continue to afford a large warehouse with the little money they make
and every day the leftover kickstarter money gets less and less. Time to start selling personal stuff to keep the lights on... Oh wait... Kevin is already doing that...
Man, these idiots cannot even do a “refund” without screwing it up. I sent in my original request in around April 4th and have recieve naught but the boilerplate “Please Hold” e-mail a week or two late. I even sent a follow-up last week to make sure they weren’t sending it to KS messsenger (as I have deleted my account) .. and nothing. I’m thinking they must just want me to sue them because they just don’t think it’ll happen.
I have no idea about an arrangement, but one of the admins on Mike's page flat out said that he'd been personally in touch with Kevin and knew about the situation before it was publicly announced. I believe something about appreciation for all he'd done?
To be clear, my point is entirely about some others knowing early, and not at all an insinuation about impropriety or unreasonable favourable treatment.
But it wouldn't at all surprise me if the word was also leaked to some of the more fan friendly sorts as well.
No more updates from PB on KS. It was like that last flurry of energy some dying creatures have before the lights finally snap out.
I likened it all in the KS comments to this: The game and miniatures were in all likelihood a literally turnkey project from Ninja Division. But then the key was purchased by a completely incompetent driver who convinced over 5-thousand people to pay for that car key for him - at which point he told everyone he knew exactly where he was going and exactly how to get there, didn't need the care manual in the glove box, knew better than the road signs and the map, and eventually ignored the 'check engine' light until the thing died in the middle of the road. Then he just left it there, ignoring anyone asking where the car was or telling everyone it was fine where he parked it and he'd have it going again tomorrow, while he tried to find someone to fix it cheap or for free, all the while hoping the city would just tow it away and impound it so he could blame city hall, or that someone would steal it or set it on fire so he could just collect the insurance money for it and walk away.
I'm wondering if I should snail-mail a registered paper invoice to Kev for what I spent in the Backerkit.
I'm also wondering if folks who are owed much more (hundreds, thousands of dollars) might be able to place a property lien for that value?
Having read the Soda Pop thread in News and Rumors, I'm not sure that PB is entirely at fault (they're still very much at fault, don't get me wrong). I'm glad I didn't invest in RRT because of what I knew about Kevin S and was unsurprised it failed. Reading about Soda Pop/Ninja Division was surprising how they mismanage their KSs. I had been assuming that the fault of RRT was PB but now I wonder how much of it really was.
Eh, we can split hairs on the particulars, but while SP/ND/Whatever certainly aren't flawless saints, they've actually delivered on most of their campaigns (I'm aware of the more recent delays/controversy, but point remains, the others (far as I know) actually got down, and not with a half decade delay), and PB struggled to barely get out the core box and a pair of non-core expansions.
If ND were part of the problem, I have a hard time believing it's disproportionate to their say in how things progressed. From what we know, they were contracted to run the campaign and design the models. Rumour has it they gave suggestions regarding who to use for manufacturing, that were apparently disregarded.
90-10? 80-20? An overly generous 70-30 split on PB to ND blame? At the end of the day, PB held the license, subcontracted part of the work out, and from what we've seen ND delivered on that. PB has thrown them under the bus, but if there were truly substantial fault, I'd expect the normally litigious PB/Kevin to have a messy court case already a few years into proceedings. Their name on the campaign page as the creator, their name on the box (I don't recall if ND even shows up on there, but I'm pretty sure PB's is there like a half dozen times).
We'll probably never know the full truth, unless things actually go to discovery. ND has been particularly quite, to the point of people assuming an NDA is involved (I don't recall if that has been officially confirmed or just winked and nodded at), and the only people who have talked openly about it are notoriously unreliable narrators, so while I'm not one to claim ill intent from others (especially here), I find that thread showing up elsewhere to often be more about muddying the waters than anything, so without substantial proof I think it's more of a "yeah, and?" kind of thing. Maybe they do deserve a little ire, but the vast lion's share goes to PB anyways, at least for me.
Skaorn wrote: Having read the Soda Pop thread in News and Rumors, I'm not sure that PB is entirely at fault (they're still very much at fault, don't get me wrong). I'm glad I didn't invest in RRT because of what I knew about Kevin S and was unsurprised it failed. Reading about Soda Pop/Ninja Division was surprising how they mismanage their KSs. I had been assuming that the fault of RRT was PB but now I wonder how much of it really was.
At least Ninja Division had some experience to bring to the project, which Kevin immediately ignored once huge dollar signs appeared before his eyes. Instead we got useless renders that had to be re-done and a seriously dodgy manufacturer what probably bled the KS dry because Kevin's a dope. There's a reason you partner with experience when doing something complex!
I never would have backed the KS without Ninja Division's presence. Palladium can barely get black and white, low graphic complexity RPG books published by itself.
Ok, I’m a bit confounded now. They finally replied to my 2nd e-mail to them and stated they had already pulled my order - Spartans included (?!?), and did I want to go with it or the revised list...they put up they were out of Spartans on the 14th, so they must have been just sitting on my order for over two, three weeks?
Stormonu wrote: Ok, I’m a bit confounded now. They finally replied to my 2nd e-mail to them and stated they had already pulled my order - Spartans included (?!?), and did I want to go with it or the revised list...they put up they were out of Spartans on the 14th, so they must have been just sitting on my order for over two, three weeks?
They're stringing you along so you don't take them to court
Skaorn wrote: Having read the Soda Pop thread in News and Rumors, I'm not sure that PB is entirely at fault (they're still very much at fault, don't get me wrong). I'm glad I didn't invest in RRT because of what I knew about Kevin S and was unsurprised it failed. Reading about Soda Pop/Ninja Division was surprising how they mismanage their KSs. I had been assuming that the fault of RRT was PB but now I wonder how much of it really was.
I think ND/$PM ship started to go down after their Ninja All-Stars game, that campaign was pretty flawless but all the others after turned into a gak show @2016/17 way after Robotech campaign was run
Skaorn wrote: Having read the Soda Pop thread in News and Rumors, I'm not sure that PB is entirely at fault (they're still very much at fault, don't get me wrong). I'm glad I didn't invest in RRT because of what I knew about Kevin S and was unsurprised it failed. Reading about Soda Pop/Ninja Division was surprising how they mismanage their KSs. I had been assuming that the fault of RRT was PB but now I wonder how much of it really was.
I think ND/$PM ship started to go down after their Ninja All-Stars game, that campaign was pretty flawless but all the others after turned into a gak show @2016/17 way after Robotech campaign was run
Don't want to take this too far off topic, but other than some minor delays (at least in Kickstarter relative terms), both Rail Raiders and Way of the Fighter (miniatures option on the latter notwithstanding) finished satisfactorily from a production perspective.
I'm yet to play either, and only played a single game of Ninja All-Stars, but that's three successful projects. Their SDE issues seem to be pretty excessive though.
Skaorn wrote: Having read the Soda Pop thread in News and Rumors, I'm not sure that PB is entirely at fault (they're still very much at fault, don't get me wrong). I'm glad I didn't invest in RRT because of what I knew about Kevin S and was unsurprised it failed. Reading about Soda Pop/Ninja Division was surprising how they mismanage their KSs. I had been assuming that the fault of RRT was PB but now I wonder how much of it really was.
I think ND/$PM ship started to go down after their Ninja All-Stars game, that campaign was pretty flawless but all the others after turned into a gak show @2016/17 way after Robotech campaign was run
Don't want to take this too far off topic, but other than some minor delays (at least in Kickstarter relative terms), both Rail Raiders and Way of the Fighter (miniatures option on the latter notwithstanding) finished satisfactorily from a production perspective.
I'm yet to play either, and only played a single game of Ninja All-Stars, but that's three successful projects. Their SDE issues seem to be pretty excessive though.
Yeah production wise they were a success but very late in RRI case, but they soured the backers quite bad on RRI after changing a couple of SG post KS so we didnt get them(extra fancy box for KS extras & card sleeves which got replaced with a set of inferior produced cards)and especially if you was from outside the USA in ROW/EU as we had to wait 6+ months after the US KS & retail fulfilment and was told over 16 times our games had left the warehouse and was on way to the dock or was at the dock and yes Super Dungeon Explore is a whole mess and looks like its going to drag on!
So....I got tired of the defenders on the palladium forums....here was my response
Palladium owes refunds. No it is not an investment. It was money to be returned in product. The ToS this project was created and run under is very explicit in stating the company owes refunds. NOT product in kind. NOT "oops my bad sorry guys but Kickstarter is a risk". Refunds. The project was to create the game nothing more. NOT retail . CREATION.
John Cadice of ND publicly stated ND had ALL models done as well as factory time set aside and the plan was changed by someone else.
Kevin publicly admitted to using backer money to fund retail stock (which was NOT part of the campaign) to fund wave two which oddly enough had he NOT done that he MAY have had funds to at least get some of wave two done.
Kevin admitted to LYING for THREE YEARS about having the money to finish this project (which is oddly the same amount of time that ND was no longer involved) when they did not (I myself tried to warn people THEN about it as I had found out but was told there was no way I could know)
PB and crew may want us to believe how hard they worked on this but I know first hand how UNinvolved and UNinterested they were in the further development, support and evolution of this game leaving to people like me, Mike Arnold, and Peter Pidrak to do all the work in that regard NOT them.
WE got the FAQ done. WE did the revised official Blast Rule. WE put them in touch with GHQ and got the ball rolling and finished on conventional unit rules. WE pushed to get the wave two cards as well as paper minis done. ALL of which was only completed because we essentially had to harass Wayne and others at PB to GET IT DONE. (side note, Wayne STILL has the completed conventional forces rules in the format he wanted, which was ready to be released to the public since July 2015)
HG gave them a zero dollar renewal as well as putting them in touch with people who could have helped significantly with getting things done. THEY obviously did not take advantage of that. (This is per a HG rep at a recent convention when asked about PB, RRT, and the license)
For someone and a company that claimed to be working SO hard on RRT they did very little ACTUAL work. So spare me the excuses and blame shifting. This is ON KEVIN, and very little is on anyone else.
Even with everything that has been revealed, said, and done by Palladium in regards to Robotech, there are still people willing to defend them and try to blame someone else. I just can't get over how much people still lay the blame on ND, when they did everything they were contracted to do. They handed over a complete game, models, digital files, contacts and a factory in China for production. Then they walked away. How is anything that followed their fault? PB didn't renegotiate or offer a new contract. As a matter of fact, they actually started to distance themselves from PB when Kevin started blaming them for problems and issues. I just... why didn't Kevin just as for more help? Or offer ND a new contract? Anything besides blame everyone else for everything?
This could have been a fantastic game. It could have been the game that saved PG. Instead, its going to be the stake that is driven straight through PB's heart.
There was a poll on the Robotech FB group and about 40-50% of people indicated they'd taken the exchange offer. Somewhere around 250 people replied so it may not be the most accurate projection, but it's something. Dealing with PB is like trying to choke back down vomit but even as bad as getting more wave one crap stinks it's a bit better than getting nothing for the money they put in.
It does make me wonder, if RRT had actually been released as it was supposed to, if Kevin S would have been forced to release a revised edition at some point or if he would cling to "it was perfect the first time" like he does with the Palladium system.
stanman wrote: There was a poll on the Robotech FB group and about 40-50% of people indicated they'd taken the exchange offer. Somewhere around 250 people replied so it may not be the most accurate projection, but it's something. Dealing with PB is like trying to choke back down vomit but even as bad as getting more wave one crap stinks it's a bit better than getting nothing for the money they put in.
Yeah, I'd be wary of putting any kind of meaning to an "opt in" poll, especially one that seems to be self-reinforcing.
You need to be a fan of RRT enough to sign up to a FB page, which indicates either a higher tendency to be favorable to PB/RRT (or at least to getting something in hand), or unfavorable (lets be honest, some people comment for spite and mockery *raises hands*).
The one thing we know, is that the vast majority of backers rarely, if ever, comment publicly. I'd put that number at 80%+. Hell, in the most public debate in the entire campaign (sales at GenCon), IIRC, they barely got a 25% response rate. The scale debate had substantially less. And we simply don't know if those people are engaged, or apathetic. I can see a percentage of backers having written off any and all losses completely, and a good portion of international backers going "Feth that!" when they saw expected shipping costs.
So until we have definitive numbers (and no, I'm not going to accept PB's word on how many, without actual evidence), take up of the offer could be anywhere from 1-80%. That's how much variance I'd assign this clusterfeth. Don't get me wrong, I think it's definitely on the smaller side, and I'd bet Genoside's 20% is close to the mark. But there's just too many unknown variables, and the only real source of information is a known bad faith actor and unreliable narrator.
Easy E wrote: I picked up my boxes of RT stuff from the shelf this weekend, blew the dust off; and then decided to work on something else instead.
I’ve actually done that several times now - Some time back, I put tem together when I first got them and primed the UEDF mechs, even painted a few, then boxed up the whole thing. Pulled ‘em down a couple times to finish painting, ...and decided against it and painted something else instead.
Well, wonderful trade-in is over.
They really are going to use this as an excuse of doing their best to make good with their backers?
I want to know who the three people are that dropped $3500 for the kickstarter... I cannot even imagine what kind of anger would be there.
As to Jamz and white knights: I am sure a few of the usual suspects may have multiple accounts.
People would need regular face-time to "drink the kool-aid" (funny how that direct reference was a means of dying within a certain cult... but I digress).
What I am particularly unhappy about is we funded Palladium Book's continued existence if discovery cannot be applied to them and the channeling of funds inappropriately is not found.
Because when they think this whole thing is said and done the money WILL be used for vacations and "discretionary" items since the Kickstarter has ended... RIGHT?
All I can do now is hope the IRS checks them out due to spending more than their supposed income or some other stupid thing I am sure they will do.
There won’t be any vacations or whatnot because this money was gone two years ago. I doubt they will survive much longer, they’ve already been bleeding out on funds, the corpse just hasn’t stopped twitching yet.
Still haven’t got my trade-out of this clusterfeth. They have apparently pulled the product, but are just stting on it to do “when they feel like it”. I doubt I’m the only one that’s in this position.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW, wonder what they will do with those resin SDF-1’s they hade made up to show us they were “totally working on RRT”? My guess is they were “donated” to a (close) fan friend that was owed product...
Stormonu wrote: There won’t be any vacations or whatnot because this money was gone two years ago. I doubt they will survive much longer, they’ve already been bleeding out on funds, the corpse just hasn’t stopped twitching yet.
Still haven’t got my trade-out of this clusterfeth. They have apparently pulled the product, but are just stting on it to do “when they feel like it”. I doubt I’m the only one that’s in this position.
Have you paid shipping? Cause apparently if it's not paid for by Friday, you're done, according to the latest Update.
And you're assuming all the money has been spent. I don't doubt that there isn't sufficient funds to complete Wave 2, but we only have the word of an unreliable narrator that the funds are completely drained, or haven't been shifted into PB's general accounts. And until I see a proper accounting of the books, I'm never going to believe Kevin when it comes to the financials of this clusterfeth.
It would not shock me at all, to find out that the combination of remaining Kickstarter funds and money earned in the firesale are in the high five figures, if not the low six figures. And that'd be enough to keep KevCo solvent (along with their other income streams) for a couple more years. Kevin is a charlatan, and I'd bet good money if there's funds remaining, he feels Palladium deserves it for all the hard work they did on this project.
So much in agreement.
This guy has admitted lying to us for years. We are supposed to believe him now?
His pie chart and shifting numbers don't add up.
We have been given nothing in terms of proof.
Easy E wrote: I picked up my boxes of RT stuff from the shelf this weekend, blew the dust off; and then decided to work on something else instead.
I’ve actually done that several times now - Some time back, I put tem together when I first got them and primed the UEDF mechs, even painted a few, then boxed up the whole thing. Pulled ‘em down a couple times to finish painting, ...and decided against it and painted something else instead.
..And they want me to trade in for more?
I don't need 8 more copies of the game to pile on the 6 I already have.
On a lighter note, I'm not sure which I'm more happy to see: that John Cadice is a member of the legal action group or that he's reviewing his PB contracts to see how he can help.
Stormonu wrote: There won’t be any vacations or whatnot because this money was gone two years ago. I doubt they will survive much longer, they’ve already been bleeding out on funds, the corpse just hasn’t stopped twitching yet.
Still haven’t got my trade-out of this clusterfeth. They have apparently pulled the product, but are just stting on it to do “when they feel like it”. I doubt I’m the only one that’s in this position.
Have you paid shipping? Cause apparently if it's not paid for by Friday, you're done, according to the latest Update.
And you're assuming all the money has been spent. I don't doubt that there isn't sufficient funds to complete Wave 2, but we only have the word of an unreliable narrator that the funds are completely drained, or haven't been shifted into PB's general accounts. And until I see a proper accounting of the books, I'm never going to believe Kevin when it comes to the financials of this clusterfeth.
It would not shock me at all, to find out that the combination of remaining Kickstarter funds and money earned in the firesale are in the high five figures, if not the low six figures. And that'd be enough to keep KevCo solvent (along with their other income streams) for a couple more years. Kevin is a charlatan, and I'd bet good money if there's funds remaining, he feels Palladium deserves it for all the hard work they did on this project.
I’d have to get a shipping quote from them first. No way in hell am I giving them a blank check for this crap.
Kevin is definately unreliable, but with the napkin math I’ve done in the past, I’d be suprised if they have enough money to make it through next year - prior to this fire sale. They’ll be out of business soon enough, within 5 years if they don’t pull another miracle out of their butts.
They've limped along this far, unless someone actually does something to drain their coffers, I have doubts they'll go under naturally anytime soon.
It's amazing what you can maintain through the generosity of a select group of fan friends (I'm explicitly talking about the types who order a dozen grab bags a year and get sincerely excited for CS branded pencils or Rifts tumblers/poker decks, not 'I buy a few Rifters a year' casual buyers).
Kevin potentially needing to retire (and several of the other members on the team not being spring chickens themselves) might have more of an impact than anything unless the legal ball really gets rolling.
But if it's Tsunami 2.0 (tempest in a teapot indeed), I'd hedge the bet on a five year timeline being more about getting on in the years than anything financial, at least for that reason.
I have to agree with Forar, PB survived the "Crisis of Treachery!!!" tm mostly by begging at fans. I think the only way PB might go down is if someone drives a wooden stake through his heart. I doubt he'd even do something sensible like turning the company over to someone else and retiring in the face of this debacle to try to save some face for PB.
I agree with Forar and Skaorn, that if the lawsuit fizzles out, Palladium will be able to limp on another three years. At which point, Kevin (who turned 62 last week), is eligible for full retirement benefits. Two other staff (Alex and Julius) are contemporaries of Kevin, so that'd be three of seven, and anecdotes have shown Kevin's not really one to give a crap about people other than himself, except in how they can best serve him.
When looking up the profiles to remind myself of which staff were in Kevin's age bracket, I saw the profile for Scott. In the first paragraph of his story, there's an allusion to the toilet scrubbing that brought Scott to Kevin's attention. I just find it funny that that's the point that apparently cemented Scott in Kevin's consciousness.
I do disagree with Skaorn that Kevin will retire to save face. I think he will absolutely farm it off to someone else, either on retirement, or if the lawsuit picks up steam. Probably Wayne, who seems stupid enough to accept. That way, Kevin gets to ride off into the sunset, and it'll be someone else who ruined his legacy. As we've seen from Kevin's writing these past five years, yes he loves to play the martyr, but he definitely thinks he's a master of PR spin, when in fact most of what he says is patently transparent. This way he gets to do both.
Forar wrote: So, funny that, most didn't bow and scrape before you. Welcome to Dakkadakka.
I have to admit that after all this time, I am still laughing over this.
Anyways, so I have tabulated all the results from my poll from eons ago, and are providing the rather interesting results to you. I know you are all very excited.
- 80% said that they would welcome Palladium Books going out of business
- 44% said that they would still like their kickstarter items
- 43% said that they would still like their kickstarter items, but only to sell on eBay.
- 9% said they didn't care either way at this point
- 34% said Macross was superior to Robotech
- 3% said purple was their favorite color
- 17% said they were fans of the Robotech RPG, but only of the New Generation
- 27% said Roy Fokker was the greatest character of all time. Santa Claus came in at 22%. - 10% thought it was odd that while the Invid could only track protoculture, Lance felt it was still necessary to dress and sing like a woman.
- Only 13% thought that the Robotech Masters was the worst cartoon of all time. I would have thought that would have been higher. . . - 11% said they thought Scott at Palladium Books was really their friend
- 5% wonder if Scott at Palladium Books really even exits at all.
- 99% of those who are married report that their wives are disappointed they still like Robotech
- 25% eagerly await Robotech RPG Tactics 2nd edition, also by Alessio Cavatore
...And only 1% would willingingly play RRT unless threatened with waterboarding.
On another note, I don’t think I’m going to get my “refund in kind”, probably because I no longer have a KS account and I’ll bet they keep sending the shipping invoice to that...
Skaorn wrote: I have to agree with Forar, PB survived the "Crisis of Treachery!!!" tm mostly by begging at fans. I think the only way PB might go down is if someone drives a wooden stake through his heart. I doubt he'd even do something sensible like turning the company over to someone else and retiring in the face of this debacle to try to save some face for PB.
According to Kevin it was the fans who begged him to take their money.
Be sure to thoroughly rinse off the BS before leaving the page - may need to santize the computer as well.
On a completely different note, finally got my postage e-mail and paid it. $22.79 is not only an odd number, it seems excessive for a core box & 4 add-on boxes. Oh well, at least I’ll be out of this nightmare.
Stormonu wrote: On a completely different note, finally got my postage e-mail and paid it. $22.79 is not only an odd number, it seems excessive for a core box & 4 add-on boxes. Oh well, at least I’ll be out of this nightmare.
You may want to check the postage mark when you get your package. It's quite possible that if the postage cost listed on the package is less than the amount charged, then their statement that you forfeit your claim is itself void. Because while I don't want to wade back through the last sixteen (!) Updates, I think they said they'd charge only for actual shipping. At the very least, you'ld be well within your rights to issue a PayPal dispute, even if it's only for pennies.
Why do something so petty? Because feth Kevin, that's why.
Interesting that the Rifts CCG and nGage game are mentioned in the profile, but RRT isn't. You'd think that someone wants everyone to forget that it ever existed.
Stormonu 651554 9969594
4023a2b51c7eea242bf5cf5f1cb54697.jpg wrote:Good God, if you want to see just how narsstic Kevin is, read the company profile page.
Be sure to thoroughly rinse off the BS before leaving the page - may need to santize the computer as well.
On a completely different note, finally got my postage e-mail and paid it. $22.79 is not only an odd number, it seems excessive for a core box & 4 add-on boxes. Oh well, at least I’ll be out of this nightmare.
Stormonu wrote: On a completely different note, finally got my postage e-mail and paid it. $22.79 is not only an odd number, it seems excessive for a core box & 4 add-on boxes. Oh well, at least I’ll be out of this nightmare.
You may want to check the postage mark when you get your package. It's quite possible that if the postage cost listed on the package is less than the amount charged, then their statement that you forfeit your claim is itself void. Because while I don't want to wade back through the last sixteen (!) Updates, I think they said they'd charge only for actual shipping. At the very least, you'ld be well within your rights to issue a PayPal dispute, even if it's only for pennies.
Why do something so petty? Because feth Kevin, that's why.
THAT would be the ultimate payback I can do, and well within my rights. I’ll check it when it gets to me.
Stormonu wrote: Good God, if you want to see just how narsstic Kevin is, read the company profile page.
http://www.palladiumbooks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=516&Itemid=182 Be sure to thoroughly rinse off the BS before leaving the page - may need to santize the computer as well.
On a completely different note, finally got my postage e-mail and paid it. $22.79 is not only an odd number, it seems excessive for a core box & 4 add-on boxes. Oh well, at least I’ll be out of this nightmare.
I think I felt I bit sick to my stomach reading that.
But really, I should have known better.
I agree with Morgan's advice and check the shipping cost to see if it got a sneaky markup... I am sure they feel all their hard efforts should be paid for.
I do find it hilarious that the biggest seller they ever had (not counting RRT’s buy-in) was for the TMNT game in 1985. And they haven’t been able to beat selling 16K copies of that product...
Stormonu wrote: I do find it hilarious that the biggest seller they ever had (not counting RRT’s buy-in) was for the TMNT game in 1985. And they haven’t been able to beat selling 16K copies of that product...
why are you bothering to argue with sycophants? Anyone with sense knows this was a cluster the moment ND stepped to the side to let PB do the actual lifting.
This KS *should* have been only for the stuff we got in Wave 1. But they couldn't stop their greed when the money started rolling in. This KS *should* have relied on a manufacturer (possibly suggested originally by ND) that was experienced in making models, not one whose primary business was shower curtain rings. This KS *should* not have dumped all the funds into retail stock in the deluded hope anyone outside the KS who wanted Robotech hadn't already bought in. This KS should have been declared dead two years ago, rather than Kevin stringing us along hoping the statue of limitations would run out before anyone found out the truth.
This KS *should* have done its homework, and should have had its ducks in a row. It didn't, and were are all - including PB - paying the price.
Jaymz, like you I thought I had laid out the facts in a straightforward way, but it is pointless trying to convince someone who simply will not accept that Palladium made a big error with this project. I have gone as far as to say it was not fraudelent simply bad management at so many levels.
Get the feeling someone over there is now simply trolling - as happenned a while ago - looking to invoke the banhammer and gag any complaints
wilycoyote wrote: Jaymz, like you I thought I had laid out the facts in a straightforward way, but it is pointless trying to convince someone who simply will not accept that Palladium made a big error with this project. I have gone as far as to say it was not fraudelent simply bad management at so many levels.
Get the feeling someone over there is now simply trolling - as happenned a while ago - looking to invoke the banhammer and gag any complaints
It is more an effort to not let some "slander" against their beloved PB go unanswered.
PB is happily sitting on the "hard facts" to do with RRT so they can treat it as a discussion on "opinion": everyone has one.
Funny, I was interested in seeing the state of Rifts the #1 brand for PB.
Total of some 63 documents not including the Rifter magazines published by PB over decades.
Pinnacle on May 19th was funded and has put together some 46 documents (mind some are just some character type sheets) but many are free (19 total).
https://www.peginc.com/product-category/rifts/ What is particularly interesting is seeing so much new artwork without recycling the old.
Wonder when Kevin will get all jealous and see someone else do more with his IP than he does.
If I was to play Rifts again it would be Savage Rifts for the win.
BUT my kids have been roped into D&D so that may not happen if ever.
I think the only thing remaining for PB to die as a company naturally is it's original aging fanbase dying off or spending their money on tabletop war gaming, motorcycles, cottages, sailboats or children...
