If you were one of the 5,000+ kickstarter backers, they automatically signed you up for their weekly news letter... a year after the end of the kickstarter... without your permission... probably after they finally figured out how to take a look at backer info for the first time ever.
You hear that! In order to get a minimum of $84 in product, US folks should pay up to 3/4 of that cost, and us Fans and Friends and FAN FRIENDS should pay up to... err, $80. And ROW can go feth itself, what idiot pays "1/2 MSRP" and then like $60 in shipping?
For $80 US, I can get, like, 6+ PB books mailed to me through Amazon.
No, it's not entirely fair to compare a *small company* like PB to a goliath like Amazon, but damn, that's just begging for charity at this point. As a consumer, it's not remotely a good deal for anyone but US 'fans'.
In their defense (man, that tastes bad coming out/up and I'll need to disinfect the keyboard after typing this) but I got a good amount of product in the only one I ever received (in 2013 when I still wasn't as bitter about this whole mess). Max, Miriya, shadow chronicles hardback, the macross book, some throwaway rifter issue (they used to have one as the free walk by the gencon booth and just pick one up give away every year when I used to go), and the new gen book. I don't know what the total retail is on that but I was happy with what I got (until I actually read them).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alpharius wrote: Christmas in July June does seem kind of fishy.
And another update without really mentioning Wave 2 seems kind of...petty at this point!
Indeed.. and making a "big deal" of the anniversaries when the previous big anniversary they had (for their original Palladium Fantasy system d&d early 80's clone) only got a reprint with no actual update but a new hard cover is a bit odd. Even Harmony Gold isn't doing squat for the anniversary of robotech. That UEDF marine book is looking like it'll be the only new product for the anniversary year at this point. The anniversary of robotech is turning out to be a bit more like the summer of George. In the end, I don't really care. I'm not buying the stuff and if others want to preorder more robotech stuff sight unseen after the last two years of the Robotech KS to help fill up the empty coffers of palladium so that they can finally get around to paying their Robotech wave 2 bills and move the project along a tiny bit (conjecture on my part obviously.. I have no access to palladium's accounting), so be it. I'm certainly not going to help.
warboss wrote: In their defense (man, that tastes bad coming out/up and I'll need to disinfect the keyboard after typing this) but I got a good amount of product in the only one I ever received (in 2013 when I still wasn't as bitter about this whole mess). Max, Miriya, shadow chronicles hardback, the macross book, some throwaway rifter issue (they used to have one as the free walk by the gencon booth and just pick one up give away every year when I used to go), and the new gen book. I don't know what the total retail is on that but I was happy with what I got (until I actually read them).
Oh, I'm sure compared to the cover price it's a pretty good deal.
But when you can buy books for 3/4 msrp or less, it's hard to get excited about an offer that that's basically "here, take this gak off our hands at wholesale prices, but without wholesale shipping advantages. In fact, if you're outside the US, you might want to bite the pillow and think of England..."
And as I noted, I won't be shocked at all if some people who ask for RRT stuff (which wasn't allowed during the 2014 Christmas grab bag rush) got expansions or core boxes. Look at PB's store compared to CSI. They could send 3 expansions and call that over $100 worth of stuff, when we both know that even on less good days it's more like $60, and depending on what they ship, could go under $50.
I mean, maybe they do go for the rafters, but the highly specific $84-92 figure makes me laugh every time.
Very true... I don't really keep up with RRPGT prices online. I know a few stores a while back had the stuff for 40%ish off for a while but that was late last year.
My favourite part though, is the return of our favourite time measurement.
PBWU, June 25th wrote:Wayne has also been working with GHQ on the beautiful looking Convention Exclusives for Robotech® RPG Tactics™ and debuting at Gen Con Indy. Nice. We expect to have the rules and stats up very soon, as well as some nifty Force Organization Charts.
Even though in Update 182, Kevin says
KS #182, June 14th wrote:]The good news is that we are currently putting the finishing touches on the squad sizes, point costs and related rules and special abilities for these vehicles and Micronian infantry. These stats and info will be posted next week for your reference and to assist you with rounding out your squadrons and platoons.
Wayne better hurry the feth up. Cause by my counting, he's got three days, or it'll be another scheduled promise they've missed.
Though I'm happy they've had such an extended time to playtest. I'm confident there'll be no immediately apparent issues.
Automatically Appended Next Post: also love how PB says its the Robotech 30th. anniversary and yet by what dating do they use, the 30th. anniversary for Robotech for HG was in 2013, and the 30th. anniversary for Robotech for Palladium is in 2016.
so this sounds like a cash grab for PB who do not have the money for wave 2 and they are not getting another penny from me.
warboss wrote: If you were one of the 5,000+ kickstarter backers, they automatically signed you up for their weekly news letter... a year after the end of the kickstarter... without your permission... probably after they finally figured out how to take a look at backer info for the first time ever.
I guess in my case they're going right into my spam folder then, because I've never seen one ^_^
also love how PB says its the Robotech 30th. anniversary and yet by what dating do they use, the 30th. anniversary for Robotech for HG was in 2013, and the 30th. anniversary for Robotech for Palladium is in 2016.
The 30th anniversary of Macross was in 2013, not Robotech. Robotech first aired in 1985 so it is the 30th anniversary of the show this year. As for who is working on wave 2, anyone from the janitor to the stock boy amongst others probably are periodically since anyone who works there wears many hats. An artist that previously never did any Robotech to my knowledge is now overall "the robotech guy" replacing the one let go coincidentally with the announcement of the second great art theft of the palladium break room. Likely whenever someone buys a dice bag or LE metal invid, the project moves minutely forward like a glacier.
warboss wrote: If you were one of the 5,000+ kickstarter backers, they automatically signed you up for their weekly news letter... a year after the end of the kickstarter... without your permission... probably after they finally figured out how to take a look at backer info for the first time ever.
I guess in my case they're going right into my spam folder then, because I've never seen one ^_^
Possibly. I don't remember if that is where mine started or not. It was sent out about 16 hours ago if you wanted to check your spam folder assuming you don't have them auto deleted.
I doubt we might see any update this week. At least not until the vote for 15mm gains traction so Kevin can say it's what the fans want. I don't think he seems happy that most backers want 6mm or nothing to do with this gak and just want wave two info. He knows many backers are unhappy so he and his "advisors" probably have an aloof attitude towards the backers. Yes that does make him seem ungrateful. I wouldn't be surprised if some of his actions are just to mess with us because he thinks we should be grateful to get anything.
On behalf of all the fan friends. This thread is just so mean and nasty, can't you all see that he's a genius at work? He needs time to make everything magical and perfect, so in the mean time:
Morgan Vening wrote: My favourite part though, is the return of our favourite time measurement.
PBWU, June 25th wrote:Wayne has also been working with GHQ on the beautiful looking Convention Exclusives for Robotech® RPG Tactics™ and debuting at Gen Con Indy. Nice. We expect to have the rules and stats up very soon, as well as some nifty Force Organization Charts.
Even though in Update 182, Kevin says
KS #182, June 14th wrote:]The good news is that we are currently putting the finishing touches on the squad sizes, point costs and related rules and special abilities for these vehicles and Micronian infantry. These stats and info will be posted next week for your reference and to assist you with rounding out your squadrons and platoons.
Wayne better hurry the feth up. Cause by my counting, he's got three days, or it'll be another scheduled promise they've missed.
Though I'm happy they've had such an extended time to playtest. I'm confident there'll be no immediately apparent issues.
This time it is my fault. I had heard of the impeding rules and told Wayne that it would be better to have several more people other than just Carmen and him, who have played, look at them, including myself. We are likely to make a few changes before PB shares them.
Morgan Vening wrote: Wayne better hurry the feth up. Cause by my counting, he's got three days, or it'll be another scheduled promise they've missed.
Though I'm happy they've had such an extended time to playtest. I'm confident there'll be no immediately apparent issues.
This time it is my fault. I had heard of the impeding rules and told Wayne that it would be better to have several more people other than just Carmen and him, who have played, look at them, including myself. We are likely to make a few changes before PB shares them.
That's really a good thing, though it should have already been instituted. Not surprised that PB have continued their history of getting most of the way through something and then having it brought to their attention that wait, there's a potential problem? I mean that's why this whole scale thing is happening, when it should have been finalized two and a half years ago. As soon as they got stats for the conventional forces, at least SOME outside playtesters should have been brought in to test it.
The problem is, as I think I mentioned elsewhere, they're wanting to have all pre-orders in by July 15th. So they can spin up what's necessary, plus surplus for GenCon. And while some people will still continue to buy PB products sight unseen, and stat unseen, and others won't buy regardless, I think there's a significant percentage that will want to make informed choices, before potentially laying out significant sums. With the conventional forces, backers know what they look like, but knowing how the army composits, and what the dollar value vs the points value and effectiveness, is something that might guide those purchases.
With the promo models, you've got the opposite issue. The stats are known (I believe?), but buying miniatures unseen at this point isn't something I'd want to take on faith.
I dont give a rats arse about micronian troop sizes, helicopters or minmay riding a giraffe. They have *nothing* to do with the kickstarter that I regretfully backed.
MangoMadness wrote: I dont give a rats arse about micronian troop sizes, helicopters or minmay riding a giraffe. They have *nothing* to do with the kickstarter that I regretfully backed.
My sentiments exactly.
But does have something to do about it because it is looking obvious they are out of money somewhere (lets hope they have a KS budget and are not touching those funds... naw...)
This is just another way to get seed money with few legal strings attached.
It is better than going to a bank where they would be forced to outline a plan.
Minmay on a giraffe is about as strange as Santa Kevin refusing to give us the gift we most want: wave 2 info.
Thanks for running at the barbed wire, Mike. Just be careful you don't get pushed on a landmine by Carmen after you jump on the barb wire so he can cross. Palladium seems like the kind of place where they'll put off giving you something for a week or two then demand you finish it in 24 hours because it needs to be out the next day (and publicly blame you for it not being ready as originally scheduled despite the delay actually being on their end).
warboss wrote: Thanks for running at the barbed wire, Mike. Just be careful you don't get pushed on a landmine by Carmen after you jump on the barb wire so he can cross. Palladium seems like the kind of place where they'll put off giving you something for a week or two then demand you finish it in 24 hours because it needs to be out the next day (and publicly blame you for it not being ready as originally scheduled despite the delay actually being on their end).
No worries, let's just say you will see credit where it is due.
I hope you guys don't take this as bragging but frankly I have no other place to post it where anyone will even care enough to snort regarding Robotech. I was at a not so local but very friendly FLGS swap shop and I met someone who I briefly conversed with about playing Robotech in the past on another forum. He actually went through the effort of building and painting to a nice tabletop level a decent (300pt+?) sized force for both sides but didn't want to keep the stuff. After selling some of my 40k items for store credit (the "hook" for the store hosting the event and completely reasonable), I was able to transfer that credit to him for the purchase. I now have painted robotech minis! On top of the ones pictured, there are still two squads of UEDF (5 valks and 4 destroids) on the sprue as well as two specialty zent pods.. It was basically an almost 2/3 painted double starter box for the price of one. Since I'm more into the skirmish side of all things robotech (see the sig link), I'll probably be selling most of my own untouched stuff from the kickstarter and maybe just keep a squad or each in case I end up liking a unit more than another. Thanks to the nice gent who sold the stuff and to Sergeant Horse here on dakka for hosting the event! Of course, that does mean that one of only 2-3 folks that even considered playing robotech in the much greater metro area has now officially thrown in the towel and won't likely ever be a potential opponent of mine nor a customer of palladium's.
Nice snag, getting them that cheaply is a real win. Hell, I think I was selling packets of stuff 'on the sprue' for more than you paid for mostly assembled and painted figures. And my stuff was already at a considerable discount!
Forar wrote:Nice snag, getting them that cheaply is a real win. Hell, I think I was selling packets of stuff 'on the sprue' for more than you paid for mostly assembled and painted figures. And my stuff was already at a considerable discount!
Thanks! Well, I'll be joining you in that second hand market soon although I'd guess that you already sold most of your stuff when there was actual demand. I can't see the current robotech community climate being too conducive to high margin sales. The biggest reason the guy was selling was simply no opponents (even though he'd provide minis). The final nail in the coffin was the rumored scale change that we're still inexplicably "voting" on despite the result being crystal clear excluding blatant vote rigging like last time. While he thought the sprues were poorly designed, it obviously didn't bother him enough to stop (for which I'm thankful given I didn't bother starting). How much did you end up keeping from your mega 8 core set pledge?
Joyboozer wrote:Most importantly, the boxes of miniatures you got appear to be completely pube free, truly you are blessed.
While I took out a mini from each squad to look at more closely, I fully admit that I didn't examine each in such detail so can't verify that they're pube free. Is that a risk/issue down under? Huge spiders, drop bears, and now pube entangled mecha? That's a dangerous place to live.
Thanks.. and no thanks (respectively!). Sedition Wars and Kings of War 1 were the first kickstarters that caught my eye and I followed both but ultimately chickened out due to the uncertainty inherent in the fledgeling platform at that time. I made sure to follow those and a few others as they stumbled and made sure that I'd do my homework before finally clicking the "pledge" button. When the time came and I looked at all the info, I figured I had learned enough and pledged for the first time ever on a KS... and I'm still here with you in this thread waiting for over half the sculpts two years later. *queue sad trumpet noise* I've spent a grand total of $1.00 since on KS projects.
So does anyone have any opinions on destroids? I've mainly focused myself on the veritechs so haven't really looked at them too much beyond some small test scenarios. From looking at the stats, it seems like the phalanx ones with the missile upgrades are the most powerful (blast weapons that destroy most pods even if they roll with impact!?) but I'm not sure about the rest in practice.
warboss wrote: How much did you end up keeping from your mega 8 core set pledge?
5 sets went to 2 friends (one got a pair, and has been slowly building a few models here and there. The other is sitting on 3, might end up selling some stuff off eventually), of the 3 that I kept, I sold off 2 in full, and a few extra figures from the third. I basically kept one BC, and even that is probably more than I need, given that I assembled a dozen figures months ago and haven't touched it since.
Ah, thanks. You're pretty much at where I was before today (and probably will be hopefully in a few weeks) then. Did you end up paying for your whole pledge with those sales or just the wave 1 portion?
Also, if anyone wants to see just how much palladium is capable of writing on a subject when they feel like it, I took a peek at their site and was amazed at how much I had to scroll down on their xmas in july catalog offer. If they devoted that much text to wave 2 just once in the past 4 months, I'd have been happy for a long time. The sad thing is that this is NOT the usual cut and paste but rather each suggestion's text is individually written.
Spoiler:
“Christmas in July” Palladium Surprise Package – Available now through July 6, 2015
We have done Christmas in July three or four times in the past. It is our annual Christmas Surprise Package offer made available, ever so briefly, in July, for a limited time. That means your time to order is already running out, because you only have 2 weekends to get one (or several). Order yours today. And please spread the word to your friends and fellow gamers. We are only advertising the Christmas in July Surprise Package via the Palladium website, Weekly Update and word of mouth.
A number of people have been asking us to do a Christmas in July again, so we decided we would do it as the launch of the 2015 Rifts® and Robotech® anniversary celebration. Many other Anniversary special offers will follow in the weeks ahead – some will be Flash Sales with just a day or two period to make your purchase, so watch for those emails.
What is a Palladium Christmas in July Surprise Package?
An expression of appreciation and joy from us and a deal for you.
$84-$92 (often more!) worth of Palladium Books products for only $42 plus shipping and handling. You are guaranteed to get an absolute minimum of eighty-four dollars ($84) retail value in your Surprise Package. Often you get $90-$95 (for most). Sometimes much more! Santa Kevin likes to make gamers squeal with delight and often packs in $90-$100 worth of goodies into many Surprise Packages.
It’s a surprise package because you never know exactly what you’re going to get. We try to include many of the items on your “wish list,” but we will also surprise you with stuff you are not expecting. Things like a special print(s), or issues of The Rifter®, or a Palladium RPG or sourcebook(s), special edition comic book, or other items that we think you might enjoy. Plus you can ask for unusual items like a signed photograph of Kevin Siembieda, or Kevin and the staff (same as last year), or out of print books (as suggested here). All items are “hand-picked” by Kevin Siembieda from YOUR “wish list.”
NO AUTOGRAPHS, sorry. With Gen Con prep and getting new releases to the printer, the books in the Christmas in July Grab Bags will NOT be signed by Kevin and the Palladium staff (unless you send us a convincing request for them in the comment section of your order).
This Christmas in July is our way of saying thank you to our loyal fans, delivering a little Christmas cheer six months early, and celebrating 25 years of Rifts® and 30 years of Robotech®. Not to mention putting a smile on the faces of some big kids.
This is a great way to for you to fill holes in your collection, try new games and settings, catch up on The Rifter® or purchase your gaming pals the perfect present for a birthday, anniversary, graduation, house warming or other events.
When can you order? Right now!
Now till July 6, 2015. HOWEVER, we are NOT likely to ship the first batch before July 1, 2015. And remember, we always do our best to make every order truly special.
Spread the word
The Christmas in July Surprise Package lasts only 2 weekends, and is something we only do once every several years. It is only publicized by word of mouth and on Palladium's website – www.palladiumbooks.com – so please tell everyone you know. Buy one for every gamer you know and start your summer off with fun and games.
The Cost
$42.00 plus shipping and handling (usually another $10-$15), approximately $52-$60 total for most purchasers in the USA, about $15-$20 more to Canada. Shipping overseas is two or three times the cost to Canada. Our apologies to our friends outside the USA. We are only passing along the postal rates of your chosen shipping method. But it’s still a great deal. Plus, we always try to make the orders going to countries outside of North America extra special to make up for it.
Credit card orders are welcomed. Visa and MasterCard are preferred, but we accept most cards. Place orders online, by mail, or by telephone at 734-721-2903; this is an order line only.
Send Mail Orders to: Palladium Books – Dept. X – 39074 Webb Court – Westland, MI 48185-7606.
Multiple orders WILL result in some duplication.
What you get
● $84-$92 OR MORE worth of Palladium goodies. An absolute minimum of eighty-four dollars ($84) retail in Palladium product, almost always more ($89-$95)! Especially if you give us a long Wish List. Sometimes much more! Santa Kevin like to make gamers smile and blow people’s minds.
If you do NOT want to be considered for a T-shirt, please write – “No T-shirts.”
If you DO want to be considered for a T-shirt, please make sure to give us your SIZE.
Likewise, indicate if prints or artwork are welcome.
SORRY, NO AUTOGRAPHS in the Christmas in July grab bag. Since we’re so busy with Gen Con prep and trying to get new releases to the printer, the books in the July Grab Bags will NOT be signed by Kevin and the Palladium staff (unless you send us a convincing request for them in the comment section or your order).
● Each order is “hand-picked” by Kevin Siembieda from a “Wish List” YOU provide! Please list at least 10-14 items (or more) that you know are in stock for each Grab Bag you order. PLEASE do not list books you know are out of print; you will not get them.
● Special items may include some out-of-print books (only use titles suggested here), hardcover editions, miniatures, prints, art books, posters, special edition comic books, bookmarks, T-shirts, coffee mugs, greeting cards (Christmas, Birthday and other cards available) and other items.
● The July Grab Bag makes a wonderful gift for birthdays, anniversaries, graduations, weddings, house warmings, and, of course, Christmas and other special occasions for the gamers in your life. Since there will be so much in every Surprise Package, ordering just one might enable you to give books to two or more pals. Of course, you never know what we might select from your list, so that might be a little risky, but if you state your intentions in the comments, we’ll do what we can. And please, feel free to say hello and share your thoughts with us in the comments section. But please, keep them brief (not more than half a page).
● Impress your friends with a gift worth $84-$92 or more for a cost of only $42 (plus shipping and handling).
● Fill holes in your own collection or get books and product you’ve been meaning to get or have been eyeballing longingly.
● Fun and surprise. As a “grab bag/surprise package” you never know exactly what you will receive, but that’s the fun “surprise” part of this offer, and we always try to send as many of your “special wants” as we can (at least three, almost always more). Extra items may include other RPG books, The Rifter®, posters, prints, art books, a special comic book, T-shirts, greeting cards, back stock items, uncut covers, and other items or a surprise or two.
Multiple orders WILL result in some duplication.
Your “Wish List”
Important! To insure your Christmas in July Surprise Package is everything you want it to be, send us a wish list of your “wants.” The more items listed, the more likely you are to get items you want. List them in order of preference – at least 10 items per grab bag, but 14 or more is better. That way, you don’t know what you’re getting, so when the package arrives, it really is like a Christmas present, because you don’t know what it contains! Making it fun for you and easier on us. A large selection to choose from for us always makes these Grab Bags easier to pull. Thanks.
PLEASE do not ask for books you know are not yet available or out of print like Palladium Fantasy® Crimson Hardcover, Tome Grotesque™, Land of the Damned Three, or Mechanoid Space®.
Note: Santa Kev and his elves are NOT mind readers. If you do not give us a clear idea of your wants, you may be disappointed by what comes in your July Surprise Package.
You do NOT make our job easier when you say something like “I own everything, surprise me,” or “I don’t care, anything special.” It makes our job much, much more difficult. We want to make each Grab Bag special, but because we don’t know you or what books you own, like or want, we do not have a clue as to what to send you unless you give us a variety of items on your list.
Please say something like this: “I own it all, but would love any duplicate Fantasy books signed by the Palladium crew.” Or “I have most of it, surprise me with T-shirts or unique items like signed prints, T-shirts or a coffee mug, if available,” and so on. BETTER YET, list 10-14 books or specific items on your wish list for each Grab Bag you order.
Ideas for “Special Wants”
Here are some ideas for your “wish list.” Make sure your “Special Wants/Wish List” is filled in on the X-Mas Surprise Package order form. Thank you.
● Rifts® Ultimate Edition hardcover rule book.
● Rifts® core books like the Rifts® G.M. Guide, Rifts® Book of Magic, Rifts® Adventure Guide, and Coalition War Campaign.
● For Rifts®: Rifts® Vampires Sourcebook (new), Rifts® Vampire Kindgoms™ Expanded, Rifts® Megaverse® in Flames (new), Rifts® Northern Gun One, Rifts® Northern Gun Two (new), Rifts® Lemuria, Triax™ 2, D-Bees of North America (86 D-Bees!), Shemarrian Nation™, Dimensional Outbreak™, Thundercloud Galaxy™, Fleets of the Three Galaxies™, Heroes of the Megaverse®, Three Galaxies™, Tales of the Chi-Town ‘Burbs™ (short stories), Rifts® Machinations of Doom™ (graphic novel and sourcebook by award winning artist, Ramon K. Perez), Rifts® & the Megaverse® – the Art of John Zeleznik (softcover art book or the $50 hardcover), the Zeleznik Coloring Book, Rifts® Sourcebook One Revised, Juicer Uprising™, Rifts® South America, Rifts® Australia, Rifts® Mercenaries, Rifts® MercTown™, Rifts® Merc Ops™, Rifts® Merc Adventures, Rifts® WB 29: Madhaven™, Rifts® Lemuria, Rifts® Black Market, Siege on Tolkeen/Coalition Wars® series, Chaos Earth® RPG, sourcebooks and more!
● Rifts® Movie Script: Rifts® Path of the Storm is a fun read, and includes a handful of character stats and some source material for your game, as well as some background about the Rifts® movie.
● Rifts® and the Megaverse® – The Art of John Zeleznik (softcover $22.95 retail) or hardcover ($50 retail; same book as the softcover edition but is a HC limited to 500 copies and only about 80 remain available; it comes with a tipped in sheet signed by John Zeleznik and Kevin Siembieda).
● Rifts® Graphic Novel and Sourcebook: Machinations of Doom™. This is Ramon Perez’s FIRST GRAPHIC NOVEL, and over time, it is likely to become a collector’s item. It is part graphic novel, part Rifts® sourcebook. All art is by Ramon K. Perez. Additional game text by Kevin Siembieda. Fun and useful. Get yours now. Eisner Award Winning Artist: Ramon K. Perez has been a favorite artist among Rifts® fans for decades. So it is with great delight that we remind you that our dear friend Ramon has won two Will Eisner Awards and one Joe Shuster Award for his masterful work on Jim Henson’s A Tale of Sand, a graphic novel.
● Future Visions™: The Art of Charles Walton Volume One. A collection of powerful and beautiful images showcasing finished and concept art for upcoming Splicers® sourcebooks, and it is a fun read and nice to look at. Forward by Kevin Siembieda. Additional comments by Charles Walton.
● Splicers®, Beyond the Supernatural™ and Chaos Earth® RPGs all have sourcebooks coming out in 2015, so you might want to snag them; and don’t forget the Creatures of Chaos™ sourcebook for Chaos Earth®.
● Looking for Rifts® high-tech source material? Consider Northern Gun™ One, Northern Gun Two, Rifts® Game Master Guide, Naruni Wave 2™, Rifts® Sourcebook One, Coalition War Campaign™, Coalition Navy™, Free Quebec, Triax & the NGR™, Triax™ 2, Rifts® Mercenaries, Rifts® New West™, Rifts® Atlantis, Rifts® Lemuria, and Rifts® Black Market, among others.
● Looking for Rifts® magic and monsters? Consider Rifts® Book of Magic, Federation of Magic™, Rifts® Atlantis, Rifts® South America Two, Rifts® Spirit West™, Rifts® China 1 & 2. Emphasis on monsters and D-Bees: Rifts® Conversion Books 1, 2 & 3, D-Bees of North America™, Psyscape™, New West™, Rifts® Dinosaur Swamp™, Adventures in Dinosaur Swamp™, Rifts® Atlantis, Rifts® Lemuria (Biomancy), Splynn Dimensional Market™, Phase World®, Hades, Dyval™ and Megaverse® in Flames, among others.
● Want Rifts® space adventure? See Phase World® and most of the other Dimension Books™ like Skraypers™, Anvil Galaxy™, Three Galaxies™, Megaverse® Builder™, Heroes of the Megaverse® and Thundercloud Galaxy™ as well as Mutants in Orbit™.
● Minion War™ titles: Megaverse® in Flames™ (new), Hades, Dyval™, Dimensional Outbreak™, Heroes of the Megaverse® and Armageddon Unlimited™. Thundercloud Galaxy™ is set in the Three Galaxies™ and also has references to the Minion War™.
● Rifts® Dimension Books™ are always fun: Thundercloud Galaxy™, Naruni Wave 2™, Wormwood™, Skraypers™, Phase World®, Phase World® Sourcebook, Three Galaxies™, Anvil Galaxy™, Megaverse® Builder™, Heroes of the Megaverse® and others.
● Rifts® Conversion Books include Rifts® Conversion Book One, Conversion Book 2: Pantheons of the Megaverse® and Rifts® Dark Conversions™.
● Rifts® Miniatures. Many Rifts® miniatures are available upon request in the Surprise Package. Don’t forget about the newer minis, including the Mystic Knight, Magus, Shadow Beast and others. The Glitter Boy and some others are out of stock.
● Rifts® Megaverse® in Flames™ Gold Edition “Printer Proof.” Kevin will have a few signed Printer Proofs for Grab Bags; some slightly damaged. They have a value of $100+ and include 7 signatures and a dragon head drawing by Kevin Siembieda. If you ask for one and get it, it is likely to be the ONLY item you get in your X-Mas Surprise Package.
Only people who request this item will be considered.
● Robotech RPG Tactics™ Starter Set (main box!) and Wave One Expansion Packs are available IN VERY LIMITED quantities. You may request such an item, but you may not get it, so have other items you want in your Wish List. ONLY around one dozen of each item have been put aside for the Christmas in July Surprise Package. These are expensive items. Request the RRT Box Set ($99.95 retail) and, if you are one of the lucky ones to get one in your Grab Bag, it is the ONLY item you’ll receive. Likewise, if you are chosen to receive any expansion packs, they are likely to count as the majority of your Surprise Package. Remember, just because you list an item in your Wish List, does NOT mean you are guaranteed to get it. Have many alternative choices. Note: Sorry, Convention Exclusives are NOT available.
Only people who request this item will be considered.
● Robotech® RPG Tactics™ SAMPLER – you get a sprue from which you can make TWO Veritech Valkyries in Battloid mode and some unrelated game cards. $18 value. See what all the excitement is about!
● Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Rule Book – you get the 112 page, full color rule book. $20 value. See what all the excitement is about or have an extra rule book for your games.
● Robotech® Concept Print Set: This is a set of four different (and amazing) Robotech® Expeditionary Force Marines black and white PRINTS of concept drawings for new mecha by Charles Walton II. A set of four prints, each signed by Charles Walton II. Created special for this Grab Bag offer. Counts as a $20 item.
Only people who request this item are likely to be considered.
● Robotech® The Shadow Chronicles® RPG – Hardcover Edition, 8½ x 11 inches, 224 pages, $30.95 retail. This is everything you need to play the new Robotech RPG except dice and players. Includes space combat data not found in the Manga Edition. Note: This series is very different from the original Robotech® RPG titles of the 1980s and 1990s, especially The Masters Saga™ and New Generation™ sourcebooks.
Only people who request this item will be considered.
● Robotech® The Shadow Chronicles® RPG – Manga Edition, a small, portable and pocket-sized version of the core rules; $16.95 value.
● Robotech® RPG Sourcebooks: Macross® Saga, The Masters Saga™, New Generation™ and Genesis Pits™ Sourcebook. Have you gotten the Macross® Saga in the new 8½ x 11 format? This series is very different from the original Robotech® RPG titles of the 1980s and 1990s, especially The Masters Saga™ which includes all 15 divisions of the Army of the Southern Cross, never before revealed power armor, robots, weapons and vehicles from the TV show; and lots of them. If you think you know the Southern Cross setting without this wealth of valuable new information and gear, you are wrong. Sorry, Robotech® Expeditionary Force Marines sourcebook is not yet at the printer and is NOT part of this offer even if you are willing to wait for it.
● Dead Reign® RPG – the Zombie Apocalypse. The new Fear the Walking Dead TV show it coming this August to AMC. Prep for it and see if YOU can survive the Zombie Apocalypse by playing the Dead Reign® RPG. This game is about survival and teamwork as much as it is about fighting zombies and rebuilding human civilization against impossible odds. Are you up for the challenge? This is a perfect way to try a game we know you will love to play. Fast-paced, action-packed and fun. A great “introductory” game for new players.
● Dead Reign® Sourcebooks: Endless Dead™, Civilization Gone™, Dark Places™, Fear the Reaper™, and Graveyard Earth™, each offers additional world information, new dangers, adventure ideas, random tables and more.
● Beyond the Supernatural™ RPG: Modern day horror and weirdness reminiscent of the TV shows, Fringe and Supernatural. Can be used with Dead Reign® and Nightbane®. Note: The sourcebooks Tome Grotesque™ and Beyond Arcanum™ are planned to be released end of 2015.
● Nightbane® RPG and sourcebooks including the popular Nightbane® Survival Guide. All Nightbane® titles are in stock except the discontinued Shadows of Light. Suitable for easy use with Heroes Unlimited™, Ninjas & Superspies™, and Beyond the Supernatural™.
● Heroes Unlimited™ – superhumans and heroic adventure. Any of the following make for great superhero gaming! Armageddon Unlimited™, Heroes Unlimited™ G.M.’s Guide, Powers Unlimited™ 1, 2 & 3, Villains Unlimited™ Revised, Century Station™, Gramercy Island™, Aliens Unlimited Galaxy Guide™, Ninjas & Superspies™ RPG, and Mystic China™, among others. Heroes of the Megaverse® and Skraypers™, with alien superheroes and villains, though designed as Rifts® Dimension Books, are easy to adapt to HU2.
● Heroes Unlimited™ 30th Anniversary Hardcover. You can buy it right now in the Palladium online store for $50, but that is a very special “anniversary” price. Request one in the Surprise Package and it counts as a $70 item.
● Mutants for Heroes Unlimited™ and suitable for Nightbane®, Beyond the Supernatural™, Ninjas & Superspies™ and even Rifts®, Palladium Fantasy® and Dead Reign®, are found in the After the Bomb® RPG and each of the many After the Bomb® sourcebooks: Road Hogs™, Mutants Down Under™, Mutants of the Yucatan™, Mutants in Avalon™ and Mutants in Orbit™. All of which are directly compatible with Heroes Unlimited™ and Nightbane®, and easy to drop in or adapt to any Palladium game setting. In Robotech® they could be aliens or mutants from a Genesis Pit. Plus some of these sourcebooks include cool weapons, vehicles, equipment and monstrous mutants, like giant insects, animal psionics, and more. Many are written by Erick Wujcik.
● Palladium Fantasy RPG® and sourcebooks. A unique fantasy world with human and non-human races like the Wolfen. Mysteries of Magic™ Book One, the Palladium Fantasy RPG® itself, plus epic sourcebooks like Western Empire™, Northern Hinterlands™, Land of the Damned™ One and Two, Monsters & Animals™, Dragons & Gods™, and others.
● Palladium Fantasy RPG® 30th Anniversary Hardcover. You can buy it right now in the Palladium online store for $50, but that is a very special “anniversary” price. Request one in the Surprise Package and it counts as a $70 item.
● Back stock: This is the time to get RPGs, sourcebooks, world books, and supplements you’ve been wanting. Fill those holes in your collection, get hard to find back stock items or try a new game like Splicers®, Robotech®, Dead Reign®, Rifts®, Chaos Earth®, Palladium Fantasy®, Nightbane®, Heroes Unlimited™, Ninjas & Superspies™, Beyond the Supernatural™, After the Bomb®, or RECON®.
● Rifter® back issues are available (issues 1-13 only in the X-Mas Surprise Package and select conventions). Many issues are sold out, including issues #4, #8, #22-26, #28-35, #40, #47, #50 & others.
● Rifts® and the Megaverse® – The Art of John Zeleznik, softcover has a $22.95 value. The hardcover art book is gorgeous, has a $50 value and is limited to 500 copies. Sorry, the $125 Masterwork Edition that comes with a different original concept art sketch by John Zelzenik is NOT available as a Grab Bag item.
● The Magic of Palladium Books® Collection, a reprint of the original tabloids, only available upon request. Almost out of stock. Get ‘em while you can. Includes some source material for gaming. $20 value.
● Non-Book Palladium Products and Novelty items. Don’t forget about the various bookmarks (Set One and Two), Chi-Town Library Pencils, Mouse Pads, coffee mugs, Rifts® black dice bag (gold imprint), art prints (many), A+Plus comic books (out of print for decades, $15+ value each), Curse of the Vessel #1 (a comic book by Palladium’s very own Mike Wilson), Imaginos #1 (a comic book by Palladium’s very own Mark Dudley and others with a proposed Erin Tarn comic strip), Rifts® Christmas cards, and other items. Most of these are limited collector items.
● Palladium/Rifts® Christmas cards. This is the perfect time to get Rifts® Christmas cards! 2 different sets of Rifts® Christmas cards are available. Each set comes with six of the same greeting cards with envelopes. Both are funny. Cat. No. 2517 is the Rifts® Ultimate Edition with the Splugorth tentacles and Line Walker all wearing Santa hats (Scott Johnson art). Cat. No. 2519 is the classic Rifts adventuring group pointing at a ley line (Kevin Long art) with a humorous statement and Christmas greeting. Cat. No. 2515 Mixed Card Set of Six (6 cards; one of each X-Mas card, 2 birthday cards, one Thinking of You card and one Fantasy Humor card with art by Larry Elmore on the cover, Siembieda art inside). All card sets retail for $7.00 each and come with six envelopes. These are all pretty awesome and will not be reprinted when sold out. We’ve been using them for years. Perfect for Palladium fans or fans of science fiction and fantasy. Other card sets available. See the online store descriptions, Cat. Numbers 2515-2527.
● Prints: Rifts® “Dog Boys Playing Poker” – Unsigned Print – by Mark Evans. This print is NOT signed and NOT numbered. About 150 copies are available by special request in the X-Mas Grab Bag! Available only while supplies last. 13x10 inch image, heavy paper stock, full color – suitable for framing. $10 value (signed and numbered editions are available for $15 only from the Palladium Online Store).
Only people who request art prints will be considered.
● Art print: Rifts® 20th Anniversary – Signed, Limited Edition Print – by Mike Mumah as well as Kevin Siembieda. This print IS signed by the artist, Mike Mumah, and Kevin Siembieda. About 50 copies are available by special request in the X-Mas in July Grab Bag! Available only while supplies last. 13x10 inch image, heavy paper stock, full color – suitable for framing. $15 value (signed and numbered). We may have John Zeleznik prints available too.
Only people who request art prints will be considered.
● 2009 Christmas Surprise Package Print Set – 5 prints EACH signed by the artist who created it. Limited to 530 signed and numbered sets. Art by Mike Mumah, Nick Bradshaw, Mark Dudley, and 2 prints by Kevin Siembieda; each signed. This print is SOLD OUT – but Kevin Siembieda found some of them that he had stashed away, and all numbers are under 80. Available by special request in the X-Mas in July Grab Bag and only while supplies last. Each print is 8½ x11 inches and black and white. $40 was the original price. What these low numbered, signed print sets are worth today or in the future is difficult to say. Estimated value $50-$60.
Only people who request art prints or this set will be considered.
● Art Print: Rifts® Lemuria – We have some remaining black and white Chuck Walton prints, unsigned, from Rifts Lemuria, five different. Each is 8 1/2 x 11 and suitable for framing. If you request it, Kevin Siembieda can sign the print. If available, Chuck Walton (the artist) might be available to sign some of them as well, but his availability is limited. Each print has a $5 value. Limited to a print run of 300 but not numbered.
Only people who request one or more Lemuria prints will be considered.
● Palladium T-Shirts available while supplies last; some sizes are already gone; first come, first served. All have a $20-$26.95 value. Some sizes may not be available for all T-shirts. Note: If you do NOT want a T-shirt – write “No T-shirt.” If you do want to be considered for a T-shirt, make sure you give us your size.
REMEMBER, this is a “Surprise Package.” While Kevin Siembieda and the Palladium staff personally TRY to make each and every Surprise Package something special, we can not guarantee satisfaction. It is a “Grab Bag.” Buyers may not always be satisfied (although we seem to succeed with most) and duplication will occur with multiple orders.
Note: Some book titles may be slightly damaged (bent corner, scuffed, nicked, etc.) so we can send you MORE. Of course, we cannot control damage that may occur in the mail/shipping (Media Mail being the worst in that regard), but we do ship everything in a cardboard box or tube. Let us know if you don’t mind damaged books and we may be able to add even more items.
Method of Shipping. Ordering online allows you to select the desired method of shipping. We recommend UPS because it is fast, reliable and has tracking capabilities. It also has the lowest loss and damage statistics.
Media Mail is the least expensive, but it is also the least dependable. If you want your 2015 Christmas in July Surprise Package quickly and safely, DO NOT ship via Media Mail; use UPS or Priority Mail. Note: Rare books and one-of-a-kind items, like art, prints or gold editions, can NOT be replaced if lost or damaged in the mail.
Make sure you give us your entire, correct street address and APARTMENT NUMBER!
UPS cannot ship to a P.O. Box; provide a street address.
WARNING 1: Palladium is NOT responsible for loss if you give us an incorrect or incomplete address, or if you move before the Christmas in July Surprise Package/Grab Bag arrives.
WARNING 2: Palladium is NOT responsible for loss if you select MEDIA MAIL as your shipping method. Media Mail is the least reliable method of shipping and Palladium will not be responsible for packages shipped via Media Mail that go missing or arrive DAMAGED. We recommend UPS (especially in the USA) or a method of shipping via the United States Postal Service other than Media Mail. The risk and the loss is YOURS when you ship via Media Mail, and the items will not be replaced.
Place your orders now – you only have 2 weekends before this offer is over. We start shipping next week!
Happy Summer 2015! Thank you for sharing in our Rifts® and Robotech® Anniversary celebration – and watch for Flash Sales over the next few months.
Palladium Books®, Rifts®, The Rifter®, Megaverse®, Phase World®, Palladium Fantasy RPG®, The Mechanoids®, Nightbane®, and Splicers® are Registered Trademarks, and all other names, titles and slogans are trademarks of Palladium Books Inc.
Robotech® and Robotech® The Shadow Chronicles® are Registered Trademarks of Harmony Gold USA, Inc.
paulson games wrote: That's a very long winded way of saying "Send us money and you get what Kevin decides you get!"
Seems like business as usual
Well... the 2year delayed kickstarter has turned into a $1.4 million project that can be summed up with "send us money and you get something whenever Kevin decides you do" so I guess so. My point though was rather that almost every individual bullet point in that website catalog description is MORE than the total sum of the last four months combined of new wave 2 information. Palladium literally spent more time describing the terms and conditions of art prints you may randomly get in the grab bag than they have describing the progress on their massively delayed biggest project ever. :(
It is looking like PB is settling into their normal pan-handling ways.
Flushed with the joy of a larger following due to the KS I think they are expecting all kinds of sucke...er.. "customers" to go for their typical knick-knack offerings.
I can really tell now that they are hoping by not mentioning it at all it may just go away. Too bad Robotech product they try to sell keeps reminding people of....WAVE2.
BTW warboss: I meant to say great find on getting painted miniatures and assembled. Now you can get all kinds of games in. Get some pictures, I would like to see how they were done. Thanks.
Talizvar wrote: BTW warboss: I meant to say great find on getting painted miniatures and assembled. Now you can get all kinds of games in. Get some pictures, I would like to see how they were done. Thanks.
Funny, I have my new sign off:
Catch the waveZ-wave2!
Spoiler:
If that is wave 2, then 15mm other eras is new coke or crystal pepsi. Thanks about the minis. They're nothing spectacular but rather a consistent stayed between the lines 3-4 color tourney legal paint job with and basing. No decals, shading, highlights/edging and such but that saves me dozens of hours regardless. Some are better than others but they'll won't win any painting awards in any case but they're ready to play as is. It basically amounts to around 300pts of each side painted up (a bit less for zentraedi, on the nose for UEDF). I'll pm you with the link to the gallery pics when I take them tonight (I've been toying around with builds and took them out of the foam) but the rough numbers are spoilered below.
Spoiler:
UEDF: Valkyrie squadron: 3x A, 1x J, 1x S... the S is done up like roy fokker and to a higher standard
Three Destroid squadrons: 4x Tomahawks, 4x defenders, 2x spartan, 2x phalanx with one command destroid... 300pts iirc on the nose using my skimish stuff.. maybe a bit less in normal core cards.. I'm not sure if the guy was a big battletech fan or what but it means that I don't think I'll put together more than 4 destroids ever (I'd like to have 4 total each). I do plan on eventually making a second full valkyrie squadron myself if I find an opponent locally.
Zentraedi: 9 regults in one color, 6 regults in a 2nd, and 6 regults in a 3rd. One glaug that needs a bit of work. One finished recon pod and one recovery pod. 4 light arty pods, 2 heavy arty pods, 2 of the experimental gun pods. Plus another half done glaug and assembled and primed recon and two more experimental gun pods. If I finish the second glaug and recon pod that should get me up to 300pts without using veteran or special character upgrades.
I do plan on sometime this summer trying to field some of the models in a skirmish game. When I do that, I do plan on writing up a battle report with pics probably similar to the one I did with comic life for heavy gear.
The Robotech RPG Tactics page says that Wayne posted a statement that the scale determination has been made.
The Robotech RPG Tactics page in question says he's deleted the thread.
Beasts of War quotes the Robotech RPG Tactics page as a definitive statement.
The Robotech RPG Tactics page uses the Beasts of War post as proof that the scale change is decided.
That's pretty sketchy, IMO. One source quotes another source quoting the original source, with the original evidence having been deleted, if it ever existed? And why would you delete a thread in the first place, if you had a newsworthy exclusive? Just seems disingenuous. Or shockingly dumb.
Sounds legit. That kind of logic has pulled palladium through 30 years in the industry and it is a large part of why they are as popular as they are currently. Surely that type of success bleeds over into the fanfriendom. I can just picture the folks at Palladium splitting into two teams... one sits there refreshing the update page hoping that hundreds of backers suddenly swoop in to vote for what was predetermined... and the other tries to figure out how to spin the vote towards what was predetermined. If they try to weasel out of the results of the poll, my guess is that they'll use the "well... most people didn't vote" excuse despite the fact that they accepted the gencon vote result with open arms (and wallets) with the same precondition. I hope they prove me wrong (and of course give us the wave 2 info they promised back in WINTER).
PB will announce that the poll showed that "many" people wanted to stay at 6mm, so with their partners GHq they will produce - for a limited time - a range of 6mm miniatures for the later eras. These will have to be preordered , as they will be made on demand, and you need to get them as soon as possible. Oh, anyone outside the US need not bother, ala the grab bags.
However, they may also claim a large number wanted the larger scales - including many non KS backers -who only now have discovered this great game when they bought it retail. So in response to this , PB are planning to KS a new 15mm range for RTT, designed for the Invid Wars, with a completely new low model count detailed skirmish ruleset.
(Note the ruleset will look remarkably like the RPG system )
The Robotech RPG Tactics page says that Wayne posted a statement that the scale determination has been made.
The Robotech RPG Tactics page in question says he's deleted the thread.
Beasts of War quotes the Robotech RPG Tactics page as a definitive statement.
The Robotech RPG Tactics page uses the Beasts of War post as proof that the scale change is decided.
That's pretty sketchy, IMO. One source quotes another source quoting the original source, with the original evidence having been deleted, if it ever existed? And why would you delete a thread in the first place, if you had a newsworthy exclusive? Just seems disingenuous. Or shockingly dumb.
Kind of Palladium's modus operandi.
Too bad the RRT page in question is run by a fan of the game, not by palladium. This is also the third time this year that they've "published" info that was "determined as fact" and when they got asked to check their sources they promptly deleted the thread. So I would say that it is in the shockingly dumb camp.
sqir666 wrote: Too bad the RRT page in question is run by a fan of the game, not by palladium. This is also the third time this year that they've "published" info that was "determined as fact" and when they got asked to check their sources they promptly deleted the thread. So I would say that it is in the shockingly dumb camp.
Yup, I should have made that clear that it wasn't an official site, just some fan-friend who likes to claim to be "scoopy". And then allegedly deletes an ACTUAL scoop, because *reasons*. But sticks to it having happened. And as I said, quoting another website quoting him as all the proof needed.
That's not to say it didn't happen. But this kind of sketchy bs is Palladium-esque at it's core. So, to paraphrase a common refrain, "Posts, or it didn't happen".
Supposedly the deleted 'Wayne comment' indicates pure 6mm scale throughout.
Though nobody seems to have screenshotted the stupid thing.
I'd also like to note that I actively dislike communities where it's so easy to nuke an entire conversation on a whim. If there's negativity/hostile people, deal with them, but 'taking ones ball and going home' just because things get heated is not a civilized way to conclude discussion of a topic.
Editing posts can be similarly obnoxious, but at least the discussion remains behind, along with potential quote sections and whatnot.
It's part of why I have very little to do with the non-Mike RRT page. Allegedly the comment chains are merely archived, not gone, but he comes across as a serious control freak with the way he needs to prune anything that doesn't fit his exact view of things.
So, I just double checked earlier today and it seems like the 'scoop' was in mike's FB page. It seems like the person behind the fan driven page owner posted a 'scoop', Wayne from PB laid some real knowledge down then the origami poster deleted it all because of 'people getting heated'.
sqir666 wrote: So, I just double checked earlier today and it seems like the 'scoop' was in mike's FB page. It seems like the person behind the fan driven page owner posted a 'scoop', Wayne from PB laid some real knowledge down then the origami poster deleted it all because of 'people getting heated'.
I agree with your sentiment on this BS Forar.
That page owner has a couple times posted supposed "inside" information that I knew was just BS. As soon as I saw it I put Wayne and NMI's name under it so that they could respond for themselves. There are ways to increase appeal and an audience and that is not the proper way by any means.
I can offer a repost if he says something in my group and it will keep me more aware of wild rumors being thrown out there. I try to keep up with it all somewhat.
Thats a nice force, Asterios! As for the supposed legal action, there has been so much wolf cried over the past two years you'd think duran duran pledged. It's best to ignore it until palladium themselves confirm it or online verifiable legal documents have been filed in court.
And, yup, another weekly palladium newsletter with no wave 2 news (or even any new talk of tactics at all from a quick read).
warboss wrote: Thats a nice force, Asterios! As for the supposed legal action, there has been so much wolf cried over the past two years you'd think duran duran pledged. It's best to ignore it until palladium themselves confirm it or online verifiable legal documents have been filed in court.
And, yup, another weekly palladium newsletter with no wave 2 news (or even any new talk of tactics at all from a quick read).
actually the legal threat might be more real then some want to think it is, especially considering there is only so much BS people will put up with and considering that's all PB has given of late, think someone is about to call them on it.
I hold the supposed legal eagles to the same standard as I do Palladium as they both have the same credibility after two years. Show, don't tell. Pics or it didn't happen.
warboss wrote: I hold the supposed legal eagles to the same standard as I do Palladium as they both have the same credibility after two years. Show, don't tell. Pics or it didn't happen.
well with me if things go the current status I'll be taking action at the end of the year or so my attorney tells me to do it then.
Weird, the dude who's has the rep of being a hater has done a better job of assembling and painting and shown more pics then all the fan friends.
Nice work Rick.
Joyboozer wrote: Weird, the dude who's has the rep of being a hater has done a better job of assembling and painting and shown more pics then all the fan friends.
Nice work Rick.
It is funny, to be a proper "hater" you have to care about something.
I really liked Robotech with the big stomping transformable robots.
As has been documented, PB as a company is not the ideal company to get this IP product produced and delivered to you.
In the end, the models work, fiddly but they work. With a whole lot of waiting and drama getting there... I suspect... Wave... 2 will be no different.
@Asterios: Good job, I am regretting assembly THEN painting for the pods, it makes it harder. Looks good at your end, please tell me that sprue was grey primed first!
I have had my stuff assembled, primed and the one coat of paint for months and could not bring myself to go further: your work may be the kick in the shorts I need.
Say no to litigation, use credit card refund, waste of time otherwise just hit them in the pocketbook where it hurts.
Waiting till June next year "to be fair" knowing their schedule.
So no mention at all of wave 2.
Yup, 98% certain PB out of money again... silly monkeys.
I may have to copy/paste my postings like PB... it sure looks like it.
Joyboozer wrote: Weird, the dude who's has the rep of being a hater has done a better job of assembling and painting and shown more pics then all the fan friends. Nice work Rick.
It is funny, to be a proper "hater" you have to care about something. I really liked Robotech with the big stomping transformable robots. As has been documented, PB as a company is not the ideal company to get this IP product produced and delivered to you. In the end, the models work, fiddly but they work. With a whole lot of waiting and drama getting there... I suspect... Wave... 2 will be no different.
Still find it weird* that PB don't have/won't show** what their miniatures look like at their very best. You can go to GW, or Wyrd, or PP, Corvus Belli or pretty much any miniatures game's official dedicated or company home sites, and see professionally painted versions of what their stuff looks like.
* In comparison to others. Nothing PB do at the moment is really that weird (or surprising) when you take their history and reputation into account. ** They apparently have a set professionally done, and there are some models we've seen from conventions that look decent (and some that well.... haven't). But professionally painted and properly shot (rather than phonecams, often through a glass display case, and posted by fans) might help counteract the terror some people have at the parts count.
Talizvar wrote: So no mention at all of wave 2. Yup, 98% certain PB out of money again... silly monkeys.
I may have to copy/paste my postings like PB... it sure looks like it.
To be fair, we usually get the KS Update after the PBWU, and I think they've realized that putting info in the PBWU first gets them too much criticism, for having it be the backers getting the news last. So as long as there IS a KSU, and it contains info, I can understand it not being in the PBWU.
Of course, they could mitigate most of that by mentioning in the PBWU that there WOULD be a KSU this week. If there's not, that'll be likely three weeks without an Update. And with the end of the pre-sale only 11 days away now, and no stats/organizational stuff for conventional forces out, that could affect sales.
But PB do what they do. It's clear that even with "restarting the conversation", they're not changing who or what they are.
EDIT: Being one of those unfortunate non-Americans (as opposed to being un-American), I forgot this was Independence Day weekend. So chance of a late Friday/Saturday KSU is marginal at best, and if not, that'll be the reason given. Ignoring the fact that they DID have last weekend and most of this week to do one, and July 4th not being a big surprise to anyone that couldn't be accounted for. But haterz gonna hate, fanbois gonna fellate, and PB will do whatever they want and make an excuse later.
Joyboozer wrote: Weird, the dude who's has the rep of being a hater has done a better job of assembling and painting and shown more pics then all the fan friends.
Nice work Rick.
It is funny, to be a proper "hater" you have to care about something.
I really liked Robotech with the big stomping transformable robots.
As has been documented, PB as a company is not the ideal company to get this IP product produced and delivered to you.
In the end, the models work, fiddly but they work. With a whole lot of waiting and drama getting there... I suspect... Wave... 2 will be no different.
@Asterios: Good job, I am regretting assembly THEN painting for the pods, it makes it harder. Looks good at your end, please tell me that sprue was grey primed first!
I have had my stuff assembled, primed and the one coat of paint for months and could not bring myself to go further: your work may be the kick in the shorts I need.
Say no to litigation, use credit card refund, waste of time otherwise just hit them in the pocketbook where it hurts.
Waiting till June next year "to be fair" knowing their schedule.
So no mention at all of wave 2.
Yup, 98% certain PB out of money again... silly monkeys.
I may have to copy/paste my postings like PB... it sure looks like it.
I love Robotech, love the show and everything about it, I abhor PB since they have ruined what could have been a great table top war game and made it a mockery, before this KS I didn't even know PB was still in business and had no feelings good or bad towards them, this KickStarter changed my attitude towards them to disgust and derision.
I clipped all but one spur point on each piece then I primed them Titanium white from the Liquitex line (An acrylic based spray paint sold at Michael's) then I painted the pieces while on the sprue since it makes it much easier to hold them considering how small the parts are I also did 6 veritechs and their alt configurations but removed all the excess pieces before priming them (in the same titanium white) and will be working on those after I'm done with these pods plus another Glaug and scout pod, also been picking up some picknpluck foam off of eBay to hold them in.
as to Credit card refund way to late to get a refund that way. as to the litigation part its not to get my money but to destroy PB for destroying my dream for a Robotech table top miniatures game.
also these are by far anywhere close to my best work, these are just table top quality and a fair tabletop quality since don't want to devote too much time to minis with so many fiddly bits.
Joyboozer wrote: Weird, the dude who's has the rep of being a hater has done a better job of assembling and painting and shown more pics then all the fan friends.
Nice work Rick.
It is funny, to be a proper "hater" you have to care about something.
I really liked Robotech with the big stomping transformable robots.
As has been documented, PB as a company is not the ideal company to get this IP product produced and delivered to you.
In the end, the models work, fiddly but they work. With a whole lot of waiting and drama getting there... I suspect... Wave... 2 will be no different.
Still find it weird* that PB don't have/won't show** what their miniatures look like at their very best. You can go to GW, or Wyrd, or PP, Corvus Belli or pretty much any miniatures game's official dedicated or company home sites, and see professionally painted versions of what their stuff looks like.
* In comparison to others. Nothing PB do at the moment is really that weird (or surprising) when you take their history and reputation into account.
** They apparently have a set professionally done, and there are some models we've seen from conventions that look decent (and some that well.... haven't). But professionally painted and properly shot (rather than phonecams, often through a glass display case, and posted by fans) might help counteract the terror some people have at the parts count.
Talizvar wrote: So no mention at all of wave 2.
Yup, 98% certain PB out of money again... silly monkeys.
I may have to copy/paste my postings like PB... it sure looks like it.
To be fair, we usually get the KS Update after the PBWU, and I think they've realized that putting info in the PBWU first gets them too much criticism, for having it be the backers getting the news last. So as long as there IS a KSU, and it contains info, I can understand it not being in the PBWU.
Of course, they could mitigate most of that by mentioning in the PBWU that there WOULD be a KSU this week. If there's not, that'll be likely three weeks without an Update. And with the end of the pre-sale only 11 days away now, and no stats/organizational stuff for conventional forces out, that could affect sales.
But PB do what they do. It's clear that even with "restarting the conversation", they're not changing who or what they are.
EDIT: Being one of those unfortunate non-Americans (as opposed to being un-American), I forgot this was Independence Day weekend. So chance of a late Friday/Saturday KSU is marginal at best, and if not, that'll be the reason given. Ignoring the fact that they DID have last weekend and most of this week to do one, and July 4th not being a big surprise to anyone that couldn't be accounted for. But haterz gonna hate, fanbois gonna fellate, and PB will do whatever they want and make an excuse later.
They were supposed to have them ready over a week ago. I asked to see the stats and have a group reviewing a few changes. I re-did a bunch of my cards and you will have something soon on the stats. If I can I will ask once we are in agreement if I an share my versions of the cards to help with purchasing and planning on purchases.
Sounds like a great time for them to fill in the dead air with an update on wave 2 in the meantime to give you reasonable time to review and test the stats, Mike.
warboss wrote: Sounds like a great time for them to fill in the dead air with an update on wave 2 in the meantime to give you reasonable time to review and test the stats, Mike.
well they are too busy working on the Robotech marines book this weekend to do anything, or say anything, in other words they are stalling big time.
Are you Rick from the kickstarter comments? You talk a lot about legal action for a guy who has posted here that you're not going to do squat till next year.
warboss wrote: Are you Rick from the kickstarter comments? You talk a lot about legal action for a guy who has posted here that you're not going to do squat till next year.
yes I am that Rick, and like I've said here even, my Attorney said to wait till the end of the year, then case will be assured (my attorney wants to make sure the case is rock solid and no degree of failure before going) along with an FTC investigation and possible AG investigation.
but as I also said there are a few others planning on taking PB to court soon, which may cause me to hurry up my timeline so as to get involved before nothing is left.
Then let them talk about what they're going to do. It doesn't do anyone least of all yourself to threaten to sue them hundreds of times on various venues and then do nothing for years. if they're going to supposedly take legal action, let them talk about it. They don't need you impotently threatening palladium on their behalf. I agree with your sig that palladium has dropped, broken, forgotten about, then spit on the golden egg from the Robotech goose...but you need to start gaking or just get off the pot....regardless please stop farting no matter which one you ultimately choose.
warboss wrote: Then let them talk about what they're going to do. It doesn't do anyone least of all yourself to threaten to sue them hundreds of times on various venues and then do nothing for years. if they're going to supposedly take legal action, let them talk about it. They don't need you impotently threatening palladium on their behalf. I agree with your sig that palladium has dropped, broken, forgotten about, then spit on the golden egg from the Robotech goose...but you need to start gaking or just get off the pot....regardless please stop farting no matter which one you ultimately choose.
no I mean others on the KS forums have been saying they are ready to take legal action and i'm sure if PB keeps the same silence they have been on wave 2 then in a month or two someone will push the button and all hell will break loose, since all it takes is one to get the ball rolling.
me i'm not doing anything yet since my friend is doing it of no charge to me when we do it in Dec. and he will collect his on the back end, so far I've done what he asked me to do which is request a refund or even a partial refund, PB denied it of course, so my part is done for now.
Asterios wrote: I mean others on the KS forums have been saying they are ready to take legal action and i'm sure if PB keeps the same silence they have been on wave 2 then in a month or two someone will push the button and all hell will break loose, since all it takes is one to get the ball rolling.
me i'm not doing anything yet since my friend is doing it of no charge to me when we do it in Dec. and he will collect his on the back end, so far I've done what he asked me to do which is request a refund or even a partial refund, PB denied it of course, so my part is done for now.
Presumably, I assume you sent this as a series of demand letters via certified mail, yes? To create the official paper trail of non-responsiveness.
Asterios wrote: I mean others on the KS forums have been saying they are ready to take legal action and i'm sure if PB keeps the same silence they have been on wave 2 then in a month or two someone will push the button and all hell will break loose, since all it takes is one to get the ball rolling.
me i'm not doing anything yet since my friend is doing it of no charge to me when we do it in Dec. and he will collect his on the back end, so far I've done what he asked me to do which is request a refund or even a partial refund, PB denied it of course, so my part is done for now.
Presumably, I assume you sent this as a series of demand letters via certified mail, yes? To create the official paper trail of non-responsiveness.
actually now a days an e-Mail works just fine or even a closed messaging system like that on Kickstarter, which if Kickstarter has to fight the release of those mails they will charge PB for the lawyer, which is funny.
How exciting. Generic tanks that were already available at a lower price with a different blister backing.
That paper insert was VERY expensive. It needs to cover the cost of a lot of idiocy.
I've already a collection of modern military American GHQ vehicles, artillery, track, rotary wing, fixed wing, and track.
Used them back when I was a huge player for Battletech and converted them over to that game system (build your vehicle section in the rules compendium and on occasion add in original Battletech vehicles
Just to throw a more variety feel to it.
Robotech KS I have to admit is given Battletech a surge. My gaming group wants me on our next play day to run a sample Battletech scenario.
I'm using the Rifleman in the scenario hidden for Anti-Air.
I'm using the veritech fighters as F/A aircrafts
I'm using GHQ M198 155mm tow artillery with 5 ton Prime Movers X 2 in a cut out sprue (Fire Base)
I'm using GHQ HUMVEE Avengers for Anti Air
I'm using the M1A2 Abrams X4 as MBT with 10AC, SM Laser, and machine gun to protect the Fire Base
They're running a
Centurion X 2
Mongoose X 1
Valkyrie X1
Commando X1
Wasp X1
Stinger X1
Raven x1
This ought to be fun
Rifleman is a mercenary who is under contract to only engage aircraft's attacking the Fire Base. Only allowed to defend itself if attacked directly.
On hand is two Shadow Hawks as enemy QRF
Edit
GHQ vehicles were used to give the sand table a more visual appeal
It appears you get an official Robotech round base (or two!) in the pack. Surely the pennies worth of plastic compensates for a sculpted metal whatnot, right?
I am sure with those tanks and bases there are some unit cards stuffed in there somewhere? I am sure they are high quality laminate because they learned their lesson on RRT and showed regret right?
Automatically Appended Next Post: I feel a sudden urge to play OGRE, oh, that is the other hex based game.
It appears you get an official Robotech round base (or two!) in the pack. Surely the pennies worth of plastic compensates for a sculpted metal whatnot, right?
Ungainly, pointless SWOOSHBASE(TM) or it's just not worth my time.
SJG promised a lot of stretch goals that are far from being delivered:
- Car Wars Kickstarter (this is a big one)
- Ogre Expansion
- Ogre Miniatures 2nd Edition
- Ogre Scenario Pack
- Ogre Computer Game
- Ogre background music
Basically every SG except the core game and the PDFs.
As an Ogre Minis player, I don't understand what the holdup is on the 2E rulespack, given that they published the hex rules over a year ago...
I've been on a kick to get someone to play Cars Wars with me again - bought a whole slew of stuff back in the 80's that I just got reorganized. And discovered they did an edition that is Hot Wheels sized a few years back (discovered it buying some PDFs at Warehouse 23).
Having played a good bit of X-Wing lately, I'd LOVE to see Car Wars come back using the Flight Path system or reprinted either in Hot Wheels scale or have Classic-sized minis. I know there were old metal minis, but I'd like to see modern, plastic minis (with weapon sprues) made available. 3D terrain to go with it (or at least high-detail, full color maps) would be icing on the cake.
And while I'm waiting for that, I've been building a Hot Wheels scale Thunder Road board game...
So while being dissatisfied with the wave2 no event, is it worth $90 to get the Ogre big box? My local FLGS still has one copy left. That thing is a monster in size. Must buy for the Battletech player?
This is relevant to the thread to demonstrate how money that could have been PB's is going elsewhere.
I've not been following Car Wars that closely, but 3x Hot Wheels scale for 5E give bigger models for convention demos, even though it loses the sense of scale and speed.
I believe SJG is going to do Car Wars a la X-Wing. It's a pretty decent engine for what Car Wars wants to do, but there will be realism tradeoffs, even moreso than classic.
For how Ogre went, "wait and see" is the safest course.
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Talizvar wrote: So while being dissatisfied with the wave2 no event, is it worth $90 to get the Ogre big box? My local FLGS still has one copy left. That thing is a monster in size. Must buy for the Battletech player?
This is relevant to the thread to demonstrate how money that could have been PB's is going elsewhere.
Sure! Buy it!
The terrain boards are big and modular (each 1.5" hex is the size of a RRT round base).
During the KS, the boards were a $60 set, so you're getting large counters and rules and stuff for only $30 extra.
I can see the profitability, but, honestly, half the fun of Car Wars was customization.
So, kind of hoping they don't do that. Or maybe something along the lines of regular X-Wing style stuff, but then with Dark Future-esque customizations you can snip in and out or something.
JohnHwangDD wrote: SJG promised a lot of stretch goals that are far from being delivered: - Car Wars Kickstarter (this is a big one) - Ogre Expansion - Ogre Miniatures 2nd Edition - Ogre Scenario Pack - Ogre Computer Game - Ogre background music
Basically every SG except the core game and the PDFs.
As an Ogre Minis player, I don't understand what the holdup is on the 2E rulespack, given that they published the hex rules over a year ago...
So they had a stretch goal to do another Kickstarter.
And a computer game.
And music.
Are we sure they weren't drunk when they made these?
Some of those aren't 'stretch goals', those are 'entire other products that might happen to tie into this one'.
Damn, that's some 'wild west of Kickstarter' right there.
Frankly, they delivered the game itself, a year late. The expansion and 2E I'll concede, but that's pure shenanigans on a bunch of the other stuff.
Funny that they have stuff that is approaching 3 years late and they don't even have 1/10th the comments despite pulling in the same number of backers.
If they're this far behind on the other stuff, adding more to their plate with another KS seems like the least sensible thing to be annoyed about. "Oh noes, where is my computer game, and why haven't you launched another KS for me to be annoyed about!?"
I guess I'm just not getting it. The Ogre KS has been pointed out a few times over the years about how Ogre is super duper ultra late, but man, that giant box of Ogre proper is pretty swanky. Being annoyed that they don't have a video game up (even respecting that it was an idiotic stretch goal) feels like a reach compared to "delivered 1/3 of the models, the other 2/3's might as well be in Narnia" that this one has.
If they'd delivered half that giant box, I'd could see it. Anyway, thank you for the context, but SJG being idiots with their stretch goals doesn't really seem to have anything to do with this campaign being idiots with their stretch goals in a different way.
Damn, that's some 'wild west of Kickstarter' right there.
Frankly, they delivered the game itself, a year late. The expansion and 2E I'll concede, but that's pure shenanigans on a bunch of the other stuff.
Funny that they have stuff that is approaching 3 years late and they don't even have 1/10th the comments despite pulling in the same number of backers.
I'd say a large part of that is because they delivered the most important lion's share of what they promised (the actual game with all its components) and most of the remaining items are more ancillary and frankly ridiculously amibtious to the point that they never should have been a part of that KS. It would be the equivalent IMO of Palladium giving us all the basic wave 1 and 2 plastic minis last year but leaving the objective markers/tokens, SDF, and maybe the special con/KS exclusive characters for later. If all I was waiting for was that, I wouldn't be half as angry as I am currently. In any case, it looks like SJG is updating that KS a hell of a lot more frequently (although I can't see the contents of those updates as a non-backer).
For those wanted a "car wars" game, easily converted toHot Wheels minis and the flight path movement method, check out Outrider.
I backed the recent kickstarter but the original print n play versiion is still available.
The game comes with preset cars and you simply assign dice to denote skiills - no waiting an hour for someone to design that killer machine - and away you go. Okay combat is really simplified, but as an overall package it is well worth some table time
I'd say a large part of that is because they delivered the most important lion's share of what they promised (the actual game with all its components) and most of the remaining items are more ancillary and frankly ridiculously amibtious to the point that they never should have been a part of that KS. It would be the equivalent IMO of Palladium giving us all the basic wave 1 and 2 plastic minis last year but leaving the objective markers/tokens, SDF, and maybe the special con/KS exclusive characters for later. If all I was waiting for was that, I wouldn't be half as angry as I am currently. In any case, it looks like SJG is updating that KS a hell of a lot more frequently (although I can't see the contents of those updates as a non-backer).
Exactly. I pledged for THE BIG BOX. What I cared about was THE BIG BOX. The rest of it? I really couldn't care less.
A computer game would be nice, but once I had the thing that mattered I stopped caring.
Palladium, being a bunch of jackasses, will never satisfy the majority. They'll never even get the majority to not hate them after this debacle. But if they actually showed some effort toward moving forward (which they haven't) there would likely be a lot less venom in everything.
JohnHwangDD wrote: As an Ogre Minis player, I don't understand what the holdup is on the 2E rulespack, given that they published the hex rules over a year ago...
What's the point at this stage? They've (SJG) already made clear they have no intention of supporting the miniatures line, without which any updated mini rules are pretty much useless.
wilycoyote wrote: For those wanted a "car wars" game, easily converted toHot Wheels minis and the flight path movement method, check out Outrider.
I backed the recent kickstarter but the original print n play versiion is still available.
The game comes with preset cars and you simply assign dice to denote skiills - no waiting an hour for someone to design that killer machine - and away you go. Okay combat is really simplified, but as an overall package it is well worth some table time
That actually was what got me started looking back at Car Wars. Outrider fell too far short of what I wanted (including non-simultaneous movement/planning).
Merijeek wrote: Can't the rules just be 1" = 1 hex, take it from there?
I know I saw more than a few Battletech games like that back in the day, and that was before any miniatures rules came out.
Well, the thing is that it's not really "one inch is one hex", it's more like "one hex is one inch, give or take half an inch or an inch".
I think you have to have a few more paragraphs than that, just because you end up with all sorts of edge cases, like "tank half-way in forest" that don't come up in the hex version where you're either in the hex or you're not. Or if an Ogre barrels through your hex, you deal with that where ever you are in the hex; but if you translate that to models, is the Ogre now just barreling through whatever it touches or whatever is within 0.X" of it when it moves?
And infantry squad coalescing makes sense in a hex game, but put a line of infantry stands two or three inches wide on the table, and shoot at it with the Ogre. Do they still coalesce, and how do you set the 1" bubbles for that?
Probably most of the questions are easy to answer, but they take time to find and there are probably a lot of cases where it would be better to forsake the obvious mechanical translation for something different.
Forar wrote: I guess I'm just not getting it. The Ogre KS has been pointed out a few times over the years about how Ogre is super duper ultra late, but man, that giant box of Ogre proper is pretty swanky. Being annoyed that they don't have a video game up (even respecting that it was an idiotic stretch goal) feels like a reach compared to "delivered 1/3 of the models, the other 2/3's might as well be in Narnia" that this one has.
Narnia, that's a bit close, isn't it?
I had thought that all of wave 2 was complete (After all, it WAS 98% done before the KS ended, right?) but unfortunately was shipped to the USG Ishimura* for delivery to Palladium. And we all know how that ended, don't we?
* Planet cracker ship from the computer game "Dead Space"
the reason that not many are even concerned about the overly long wait of the few KS add-ons SJG has not yet sent is simple, they are not PB, SJG's knows how to promote product, they get out there and promote product and give away items promoting their product, PB well all they promote is Kevin and that's it, PB is ran by an egomaniac who suffers from Narcissism, and they are all about promoting Kevin, their product they leave up to their legion of CoKS (Cult of Kevin Siembieda), who lets face it are RPGers and not miniature table top wargamers, so here we have a product line that is suffering on multi levels from:
1: lack of PB support,
2: lack of PB promotions,
3: fiddly bits,
4: tabletop war game rules written as an RPG or more RPG friendly then tabletop war gamer friendly,
5: miniatures you need a lot of time and patience and extra pieces to assemble
6: lack of players, lets face it the above reason has left a lack of people wanting to play this game, and yet I can find an Ogre player or a Munchkin player or a Car Wars player, or even a G.U.R.P.S. player. yet cannot find a PB game player. in these parts.
Talizvar wrote: I am convinced now, I will buy the big monster OGRE box.
Love of SJG is far more rewarding than PB:KS.
I think I will have to open up the Ping-Pong table to play though.
I have zero interest in OGRE (tried the rules twice over the past two decades... didn't like it either time) and I have almost no interest in tile based board/mini game hybrids and even I considered getting the box just in case I ever had a use for the tiles. It's that good of a value for the KS version box. You'll be able to decorate an entire office building floor's worth of cubicles with the little punch out vehicles on top of it as well.
How exciting. Generic tanks that were already available at a lower price with a different blister backing.
That paper insert was VERY expensive. It needs to cover the cost of a lot of idiocy.
GHQ is just about to raise prices across the board, so the palladium quotes ones may turn out to be the new standard (or even cheaper than them if it was a palladium mark up)
They are ones I acquired, I have my own 3d models of them but due to printing costs it was cheaper just to use garage kits that were already out there which are also incredibly well done. (they are hand sculpted which is mind blowing) It only took me about 4-5 years to collect them lol. I also have several wonder fest models and kits from hobby base. There's several good kits out there, they are just hard to come by.
The RDF soldier is 3d printed in the same type of material shapeways uses.
I do have a pincer, but it's still a bunch of parts sitting in the box. Currently the only invid unit I'm missing is the human sized enforcer, still trying to track down one from wonderfest but if not it won't be too hard to have one printed as the costs are far more reasonable on a 40mm tall model vs one that's 4+ inches tall. I don't have an Alpha or Beta in the right scale, I have some model kits and the Robotech MPC toys but they are roughly 1/55 so they look ok but are a bit undersized.
The downside of the scale is that like the zentraedi they are a swarm type enemy and you need a bunch of models to represent them and when you are looking at stuff that starts out comparable in size to a 40k dreadnought it's not in a price range that most want to spend. Scouts would probably be $50 a pop, and you'd need a bunch of them. The command type units you might only need 1-2 but that could set you back $200-$300 per model which is like using Forge World items, there's people that do it but the majority of gamers don't due to the price tag.
Here's a few of the models that were from wonderfest in Japan, as part of the convention they are allowed a very limited lisc to make garage kits that are limited to 30-50 copies and can't be reissued, which makes them tough to get. Hobby Base and Yellow Submarine also did some resin garage kits ages ago, but it's pretty much all from very limited runs in Japan. I have a very unhealthy and expensive obsession with models and garage kits, I have a friend stationed in Japan that helps me find stuff. These are pretty tame compared to some of the high end gundam stuff, omg are those expensive.
Those are some lovely models, Paulson, but those price points - ouch! Imagine trying to have a non-transformable alpha in all three modes....
I don't mind saying I'd like to get something in the midrange. I've got one of the Robotech Masterpiece alphas (about ~$100) and the reissued Matchbox/Exosquad toys (~$20) and would not mind something that fit firmly in the middle of those two on price and quality for use in a skirmish game. The Macross stuff is fine at the scale it is in (though PB's models are *meh*), but seeing this, the Mospeada would be better at something approaching 28mm scale.
At this point, I don't think it matters whether you can cross-play Macross vs. Mospeada, as I don't think PB are the right folks to have anything to do with the Robotech line. The license really needs to be yanked from those fools.
And here I thought I was the only one with a squad! My resin ones are still in pieces though (including the assembled one that I got in a trade that broken apart).
As for Wave 2, I’m working on a big breakdown of where each and every component is in its development, but that’s going to take some time. The short version is that some have been approved for tooling, some are still pending minor changes, and a couple are being reworked to reduce part counts while preserving detail. It’s going painfully slowly.
As for the part in bold, you've had FOUR MONTHS AND COUNTING since the last proper wave 2 update so that should have been time enough. They'll now use the tried and true ZOMG we're so busy gencon! excuse which is likely true but doesn't excuse the fact that they had a full calendar season to give us anything about wave 2 and that gencon certainly didn't pop up out of nowhere and surprise them.
The fact of the matter is that SOMEONE is supposed to be running things in regards to this project. That person manages the interaction of sculptors, designers, factory tasks and such.
If they don't ALREADY HAVE ONE OF THESE CHARTS MADE, there is your explanation of why this project is all well and truly fethed.
Well, that and them being out of money. But that's because the people at PB are so incompetent they couldn't score roofies at a frat party.
As for the part in bold, you've had FOUR MONTHS AND COUNTING since the last proper wave 2 update so that should have been time enough. They'll now use the tried and true ZOMG we're so busy gencon! excuse which is likely true but doesn't excuse the fact that they had a full calendar season to give us anything about wave 2 and that gencon certainly didn't pop up out of nowhere and surprise them.
To be fair they probably had some geese nearby which distracted them for at least a solid two months.
That is likely correct. Then there was the month of devious thievery where the whole office had to search high and low for loose leaf sheets of paper with doodles missing from Kevin's super awesome trapper keeper. I'm not entirely sure but I believe that Kevin once wisely said at an open house panel that "Running a businesses is an exercise in shifting priorities and the key is to.... oooooooh, a squirrel!!....***runs off chasing it***".
My favourite part of the update just happened in the Comments section. One backer is voicing concern that the scale change debate appears to have been resolved.
It was the issue with making this a matter of public discourse. Sure, 65% of voting backers*, an overwhelming majority, voted in the 6mm option. But that also means 35% of backers that for the most part likely wouldn't know there was another option, have seen something they want, taken away. If PB had just kept to their initial promise, and gauged interest in a larger game scale at a later date (you know, after this project was done), you wouldn't have the potential annoyance of a third of voters.
* Apparently it's about 600 backers who voted. Meaning this is less than half the number of backers who voted last year, for something mostly meaningless in the long run. If that doesn't suggest significant apathy, I don't know what does.
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Talizvar wrote: I am not chalking this up to incompetence, they are buying time for some reason again.
Why not? I chalked it up to incompetence almost immediately. What's the phrase? Hanlon's Razor "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.". Seems fitting when it comes to PB. Because of their ego, they'd rather you THINK they had the competence to have been malicious, but if they had that kind of capability, we'd see competence expressed in at least one avenue. And I'm yet to see anything that shows that kind of thinking.
this is what it is, PB in their infinite wisdom thought due to the great KickStarter turn out they would make a killing so they bought a bunch of extra items using the KS funds, thinking they could sell them to cover the costs of wave 2, unfortunately PB didn't take a few things into consideration:
1: most of the people interested in the game already got in on the kickstarter and only word of mouth would cause more purchases later on.
2: PB's lack of regard to common sense in the design and construction of the minis made them DoA with basically modelors and Robotech fans buying them who most likely got in on the KS in the first place, so PB is sitting on a mountain of extra product (as seen from the Open House pics) and they are not selling it.
3: word of mouth has gotten out that RRT is garbage so nobody is buying it so PB is not making the money they thought they would make to cover wave 2
4: these GC exclusives are not selling so well either, furthermore heard some people are now boycotting GHQ products for getting involved with the cult that is Kevin(so I heard but not sure, me i'm not buying their product because it is over priced to my standards and not a fan of metal).
5: expect a new KickStarter or crowdfunding of Zentraedi vs. Invid from PB this year. (in hopes of finishing the RRT stuff and screwing over a whole new host of backers for a couple of years), unless they go the GHQ route which will be another bust since Invid are swarm mecha and an army of Invid at GHQ prices will be ungodly.
6: there is a possibility with the new movie coming out in a couple years PB might no longer be able to obtain the game rights for Robotech.
I like how they say they are still working on the marines book and haven't even done much work on the con minis (only one) and yet expect them at GenCon here in 3 weeks, this disaster should be fun to watch.
Ok, THis is probably been covered but I don't have the time or inclination to read 25 pages that probably don't apply. I found a NIB copy of Robotech Tactics for $67 shipped. Im interested as I was a huge fan of robotech, like you guys were growing up. I love the models, but it sounds like there wont be any support for this other than what is out there.
Is it worth it, how does the game play go, fast, smooth, easy to learn? Would you recommend?
How exciting. Generic tanks that were already available at a lower price with a different blister backing.
Seem to look like BMP3's.....Four in a box....
GHQ comes Five/Four in a box depending on track/wheel
GHQ also has mix sets of (example) M198 artillery/ Two in firing position/Two in towing position/with twp prime Movers (5 tons)
Aircraft's one to a box
Raven911 wrote: Ok, THis is probably been covered but I don't have the time or inclination to read 25 pages that probably don't apply. I found a NIB copy of Robotech Tactics for $67 shipped. Im interested as I was a huge fan of robotech, like you guys were growing up. I love the models, but it sounds like there wont be any support for this other than what is out there.
Is it worth it, how does the game play go, fast, smooth, easy to learn? Would you recommend?
the biggest hurdle is assembly, and it has turned away a many of gamers from playing it, which also turns away from a lot of games being played, there are still backers who have yet to assemble any minis let alone any decent amount of minis at that.
the Zentraedi are easier to assemble but as easy as say GW Space Marines, plus parts have a tendency of getting lost and/or broken.
the UEDF can give you nightmares to assemble.
the game mechanics themselves need a lot of work, no where as bad as Sedition wars, but still need work and are unequal in things.
CSI had a sale on the base game for $50
as to Robotech models, think of those in 6mm scale and that's what these minis are, scaled down versions of the models in pieces and assembly.
Raven911 wrote: Ok, THis is probably been covered but I don't have the time or inclination to read 25 pages that probably don't apply. I found a NIB copy of Robotech Tactics for $67 shipped. Im interested as I was a huge fan of robotech, like you guys were growing up. I love the models, but it sounds like there wont be any support for this other than what is out there.
Is it worth it, how does the game play go, fast, smooth, easy to learn? Would you recommend?
It's a good value for that price if you're a robotech fan. The minis are a pain in the ass to assemble but they look good (not great) for the zentraedi when done and mediocre for the RDF. That said, it is cool to finally see the iconic mecha on the tabletop. The rules are decent but nothing spectacular and have some glaring holes. I put up some house rules on my blog (link in my sig) if you want to try them out with smaller forces of only a few mecha per side. The communication and followup by palladium has been horrible though as evidenced by the tone of conversation regarding robotech almost everywhere. I'd recommend going to drivethrurpg to get the free CORRECT assembly instructions for your models since the ones you get in the box are incorrect, outdated, and/or missing stuff (seriously... I'm not kidding). You get alot of terminator sized or bigger minis for that price as long as you're willing to put up with the hassle of putting them together.
CSI = Cool Stuff Inc. with free Shipping over $100 the sale is not currently on but keep an eye out on it, something tells me it might be going on clearance anytime soon.
Raven911 wrote: I think I'll check it out. Assembly doesn't scare me. It will give me something to do when I work off duty.
Is the big MAC out yet?
no the M.A.C.II is not out yet, a bunch of the models are not out yet, if your buying to assemble models, good luck if not, then oh well, but to give you an idea of the pieces, imagine VF-1S heads split in two, hell most of the VF heads come in two, then there is the arms, split in 2 and the legs split in two down the middle in other words if it could be split it was split.
and were talking models less then 2 inches in height too.
Huh. Now that the Palladium Store stopped logging me out whenever I tried to look at the pre-order list, I don't know that I want to order anything.
Yeah, the repackaged GHQ models are slightly cheaper now ($10 for what GHQ is selling for $12 now), but those $22 metal models compared to the existing or future plastic prices... Certainly too rich for my blood to try to field anything at that price.
Merijeek wrote:I can see the profitability, but, honestly, half the fun of Car Wars was customization.
Yup, much of Classic Car Wars was about car building, much like 40k list building. But creep and bloat kinda got a little out of control when they decided they needed boats, planes, hovercraft and tanks...
____
Forar wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote: SJG promised a lot of stretch goals that are far from being delivered:
- Car Wars Kickstarter (this is a big one)
As an Ogre Minis player, I don't understand what the holdup is on the 2E rulespack, given that they published the hex rules over a year ago...
So they had a stretch goal to do another Kickstarter. And a computer game.And music. Are we sure they weren't drunk when they made these?
Frankly, they delivered the game itself, a year late. The expansion and 2E I'll concede, but that's pure shenanigans on a bunch of the other stuff.
Funny that they have stuff that is approaching 3 years late and they don't even have 1/10th the comments despite pulling in the same number of backers.
If they'd delivered half that giant box, I'd could see it. Anyway, thank you for the context, but SJG being idiots with their stretch goals doesn't really seem to have anything to do with this campaign being idiots with their stretch goals in a different way.
I'm pretty sure SJG had lost their minds when they announced those SGs - there was clearly no concept as to how to deliver any of this at the time the KS closed. It was obvious that Steve Jackson had put basically zero thought into Ogre prior to the campaign, and hadn't played it in years. They literally sold backers a bill of goods.
The Car Wars SG is a big deal, because SJG said that the CW KS was dependent upon the success of the Ogre SG, and requested CW money and rewards to demonstrate interest and viability of CW KS.
Most Ogre backers have largely given up on SJG fulfilling the remaining SGs, which is why it's so quiet.
It depends on why one backed. If you backed for Miniatures tiles and Miniatures 2E, as I did, then you would be miffed as to the direction of Ogre. SJG had a chance to convert Ogre into a modern Minis board game with plastic stuff, and they blew it.
____
wilycoyote wrote:The game comes with preset cars and you simply assign dice to denote skiills - no waiting an hour for someone to design that killer machine - and away you go.
People are supposed to prebuild their Cars, or play the generic junk.
____
mdauben wrote:What's the point at this stage? They've (SJG) already made clear they have no intention of supporting the miniatures line, without which any updated mini rules are pretty much useless.
The point is to keep one's word, no more, no less.
____
Merijeek wrote:Can't the rules just be 1" = 1 hex, take it from there?
That would be a bad scale, too small. The hexes themselves are 1.5", while 2" is what the old rules said.
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paulson games wrote: I These are pretty tame compared to some of the high end gundam stuff, omg are those expensive.
paulson games wrote: I These are pretty tame compared to some of the high end gundam stuff, omg are those expensive.
Nah. For me, high end is Five Star Stories.
I looked at this:
http://www.gundamplanet.com/ims-1-100-06-l-e-d-mirage-v3-inferno-napalm.html Now I have to see this anime.
I have been building models since I was 8 years old... (yikes, 37 years) when I see this kit I think "challenge accepted".
Thanks for mentioning this John. Over some 800 parts, oh yeah. Probably the various rubber sleeves and things, always nice if some metal is in there, see if magnets buried inside might help with cutaway or mounting parts.
Models like this are like a good novel, the journey is as important as the outcome.
At least now my brother cannot sneak-in and take it to be shot-up by a pellet-gun.
Funny though, how putting together a single model of 800 parts is FINE while 20 odd parts for tabletop miniatures burns my butt.
I guess it is the different purposes of these models decides what is good or not (naw, it is the comparative quality and detail of them).
From my perspective, it's definitely about the purpose and context is key.
800 pieces for a high end display piece that will be lovingly built into something that proudly sits on a shelf is one thing.
20+ pieces for one of 50 models that is needed to play even a baseline game is something else.
The model being finished is the journey and the goal. The 'game pieces' being finished is X hours spent just leading up to being able to vaguely begin playing the game (standees and proxies not withstanding).
That said I have never gotten into Gundam. Buddies in school tried to get me into it and it always seemed to exemplify what I loathed about a lot of popular anime at the time. 'omg woah!' action sequences broken up by 16 year olds smugly monologuing about their superiority.
Forar wrote: That said I have never gotten into Gundam. Buddies in school tried to get me into it and it always seemed to exemplify what I loathed about a lot of popular anime at the time. 'omg woah!' action sequences broken up by 16 year olds smugly monologuing about their superiority.
You might need to try anything from Gundam that it's not related to Gundam Wing, maybe
I'm particularly fond of the UC, and IMHO most of the greatest Gundam stories are there.
paulson games wrote: I These are pretty tame compared to some of the high end gundam stuff, omg are those expensive.
Nah. For me, high end is Five Star Stories.
I looked at this:
http://www.gundamplanet.com/ims-1-100-06-l-e-d-mirage-v3-inferno-napalm.html Now I have to see this anime.
I have been building models since I was 8 years old... (yikes, 37 years) when I see this kit I think "challenge accepted".
Thanks for mentioning this John. Over some 800 parts, oh yeah. Probably the various rubber sleeves and things, always nice if some metal is in there, see if magnets buried inside might help with cutaway or mounting parts.
Models like this are like a good novel, the journey is as important as the outcome.
At least now my brother cannot sneak-in and take it to be shot-up by a pellet-gun.
Funny though, how putting together a single model of 800 parts is FINE while 20 odd parts for tabletop miniatures burns my butt.
I guess it is the different purposes of these models decides what is good or not (naw, it is the comparative quality and detail of them).
Digressing for a moment, Mamoru Nagano's Five Star Stories has a single OVA anime, based on over a quarter century of manga. The manga is/was published in NewType magazine for many years, and collected into volumes. In addition, there are art books and model books. FSS consistently has the most impressive and highly-detailed mecha designs (Nagano does a lot of art & fashion work).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Five_Star_Stories
The LED Mirage kit you selected (with flame launcher) is kind of the poster child for the series - good choice! The mecha has been redesigned a few times to fit with evolving mecha styles, but it's something he loves. It'll be a great kit.
You can also search FSS kits on Hobbylink Japan (hlj.com). The selection is down from the heyday, but still good stuff.
These FSS kits will be far more impressive than a little RRT tabletop guy (see, I brought it back ). Though having just assembled an Eldar Wraithknight, that kit does look good. Not as good as a FSS kit, but still very good.
The grab bag has apparently been extended just like every other grab bag at the last minute. All those "hurry, get your stuff now!" updates as usual were just smoke and mirrors (or jazz hands in forar's parlance).
Also, for those who missed it, GW's Forgeworld subsidiary posted preview pics of what looks to be a Robotech MAC II styled mecha for the Gundam styled Tau faction. I suspect gamers will see this model envisioned, sculpted, prototyped, and put to market in 2015 before the much smaller 2013 Robotech one that likely inspired it.
Merijeek wrote: Timeline until someone at PB "regretfully moves on to bigger and better (yet highly nonspecific) things" ?
Now is that the "distracted by something shiny" moving on, or the Kevin's "latest evil (disposable Kleenex) employee of the month that "took advantage of his kind nature""?
BTW on the topic of that BIG Tau model: I find the armaments near the legs with the twin missile launchers and rotary guns on both sides really funny:
"Yes, we take the garbage hordes at our feet seriously as well, they too are factored into the plans of the greater good."
On the topic of Gundam: I really could not bring myself to follow it much due to the huge volume of it even though it is about big stomping robots.
Forar: For the young folk confidence is everything. Usually in those shows they come across some old experienced type that makes them sweat but youth wins every time!
RRT PB I know you are out there.
I can hear you breathing.
Wave2... it is inconceivable and indescribable the amount of smack-down I am imagining for delaying my man-toys in perpetuity.
Merijeek wrote: Timeline until someone at PB "regretfully moves on to bigger and better (yet highly nonspecific) things" ?
That would require honesty about the present situation so it'll never happen. Palladium is only capable of admitting their "mistakes" of trusting others or trying to give fans too much long after the obvious failure is known to all but fanfriends. They won't and never have been able to admit publicly to putting a project on the way back burner. It's the reason why they're burning the midnight oil to put out SOMETHING new for gencon with a robotech rpg book that was supposed to come out over five years ago and was just a few weeks away from being done back in 2013 when they were just awaiting some final art supposedly. That is what we have to look forward to with wave 2, not a brutally honest admission finally that they don't give a rat's ass about us which would leave them open to liability.
BTW on the topic of that BIG Tau model: I find the armaments near the legs with the twin missile launchers and rotary guns on both sides really funny:
"Yes, we take the garbage hordes at our feet seriously as well, they too are factored into the plans of the greater good."
Cleaning ork out from between mecha toes is a pain. Those green stains almost never come out completely. Luckily the earth caste has found a solution....moar pew pew.
Merijeek wrote: Timeline until someone at PB "regretfully moves on to bigger and better (yet highly nonspecific) things" ?
That would require honesty about the present situation so it'll never happen. Palladium is only capable of admitting their "mistakes" of trusting others or trying to give fans too much long after the obvious failure is known to all but fanfriends. They won't and never have been able to admit publicly to putting a project on the way back burner. It's the reason why they're burning the midnight oil to put out SOMETHING new for gencon with a robotech rpg book that was supposed to come out over five years ago and was just a few weeks away from being done back in 2013 when they were just awaiting some final art supposedly. That is what we have to look forward to with wave 2, not a brutally honest admission finally that they don't give a rat's ass about us which would leave them open to liability.
Oh, sure, being delusional is both their passion, and their reason for existing.
But eventually they aren't going to have the money to keep paying their six or so employees. Will Kevin save money by getting rid of his many relatives who work in a grunt capacity? Or will it be someone like Wayne "Holy hell I'm useless" Smith, who is the second most visible person at the company?
warboss wrote: Also, for those who missed it, GW's Forgeworld subsidiary posted preview pics of what looks to be a Robotech MAC II styled mecha for the Gundam styled Tau faction. I suspect gamers will see this model envisioned, sculpted, prototyped, and put to market in 2015 before the much smaller 2013 Robotech one that likely inspired it.
Yeah, it's a very strange conincidence.
To be fair, I suspect the FW Tau Monster will cost substantially more than what I paid for the RRT MAC II ($40). The biggest FW Tau battlesuit is 72 GBP, (~$100 USD). This thing is going to cost easily $200 USD, maybe 200+ GBP.
It'll definitely cost more but it is also a hell of alot bigger than the robotech MACII. That base is bigger than the blast template of robotech and the model is somewhere between a knight and a warhound titan in total bulk so it'll definitely be at least $200. My point was to show off a cool (IMO) design that is complicated yet was started long after Palladium's kickstarter and will likely end up arriving before wave 2.
JohnHwangDD wrote: To be fair, I suspect the FW Tau Monster will cost substantially more than what I paid for the RRT MAC II ($40). The biggest FW Tau battlesuit is 72 GBP, (~$100 USD). This thing is going to cost easily $200 USD, maybe 200+ GBP.
On the other side of that coin, this thing is reputed to be in the 7-9 inch tall range, whereas the MAC's in the 3-4 inch tall range if I'm gauging the prototype against the Phalanx accurately. A similar comparison model in the Forgeworld line (Cerastus Knight), is ~$260US. And while backers may have been able to get their MAC's for $40, there is no way in heck that's gonna be close to the MSRP. Straight up conversion of Wave 1 boxes, to current pricing of those same boxes, puts the MACII at $70+US MSRP.
So, $70US vs $300US for the Tau thingy (assuming a bigger markup over the Cerastus), for something that's more than twice as tall (taking the cube rule for volume into account), then no, the Tau thing isn't horribly priced. Which for GW is about as close to "reasonably priced" as you can get.
Plus there's faith this thing will exist in the foreseeable future.
No such assumption can be made regarding MAC-II's from Palladium.
So MAC-II's can be $2 and they're still not as comparing favourably, because if I'm imagining my figures, I don't need to pay anything, and MAC-II's remain firmly imaginary until that exhaustive Wave Two update hits.
Any day now.
Any.
Day.
*jazzhands* (speaking of which, appreciate the shoutout, Warboss)
Asterios wrote: I like how they say they are still working on the marines book and haven't even done much work on the con minis (only one) and yet expect them at GenCon here in 3 weeks, this disaster should be fun to watch.
I like how Kevin's still writing stuff for the book and they expect to have it PRINTED next Friday. Shows you how much editing they bother to do for their stuff.
------
On the Tau, I might have to remortgage so I can buy one of those things.
Asterios wrote: I like how they say they are still working on the marines book and haven't even done much work on the con minis (only one) and yet expect them at GenCon here in 3 weeks, this disaster should be fun to watch.
I like how Kevin's still writing stuff for the book and they expect to have it PRINTED next Friday. Shows you how much editing they bother to do for their stuff. .
It's sadly always like they. They finish writing a section and it goes straight ot editing to layout then straight to the printer for Rifts books that require no "approval" beyond Kevin. The books are put together just like they feel... like a last minute slap dash term paper that is started the night before it is due. There is no playtesting... there is no second draft or night to think upon it... the first pass is the only draft except for the occasional typo correction. Palladium has somehow survived for the decades running the business like a stoner trying to squeak through college.
Stormonu wrote: I like how Kevin's still writing stuff for the book and they expect to have it PRINTED next Friday. Shows you how much editing they bother to do for their stuff.
Next Friday? Why rush? They've got two weeks from next Wednesday. It's not like leaving things until the last minute has ever bit them in the donkey before.
warboss wrote: It's sadly always like they. They finish writing a section and it goes straight ot editing to layout then straight to the printer for Rifts books that require no "approval" beyond Kevin. The books are put together just like they feel... like a last minute slap dash term paper that is started the night before it is due. There is no playtesting... there is no second draft or night to think upon it... the first pass is the only draft except for the occasional typo correction. Palladium has somehow survived for the decades running the business like a stoner trying to squeak through college.
A super detailed version of the Sazabi which is my all time favorite Gundam Mech. (Char's Counter Attack is also my favorite series as I tend to dislike all the newer series)
A seriously insane amount of detail on it. I only wish that they'd do something like this for Macross/Robotech.
If RRT switches scale to make giant VF-1s, that would be possible. Except Hasegawa already did the superdetail of the Fighter, and people have converted that to superdetailed Gerwalk. Would be nice to have a proper superdetailed Guardian.
Just watching the first part of the SDCC Robotech panel (thanks to RobotechX for putting it up!) and the Tactics stuff seems right in the first few minutes. Their "news" on tactics is that is it shipping to KS backers! Ughh...
Did anyone who got any of the expansion packs for the game get decals with them? I got several expansions thru certain pledges I got from my friends and such and none of them contain decals and yet in the beast of wars unboxing of the arty/reg. battlepods expansion pack they say they come with decals and yet none of them did.
The only add on in wave 1 I had was decals so I got them but also the bonus bag of wave 1 battlecry extras IIRC came with an extra sheet for each. I'm not sure though if the add ons did.
I don't believe any of the add-on's had decals, but I didn't buy any of the add-ons, so I can't be sure. They're not even core to the RRT boxed set - they were a separate add-on that got added to the backer boxes as part of the stretch goals.
I remember that Initially Ninja Division was very much against doing the decals because they would be so small, and only begrudgingly added it to the kickstarter late in the game. That's what makes me doubt the decals would be in the add-ons; they were very much against making it available with the core boxed set.
Stormonu wrote: I don't believe any of the add-on's had decals, but I didn't buy any of the add-ons, so I can't be sure. They're not even core to the RRT boxed set - they were a separate add-on that got added to the backer boxes as part of the stretch goals.
I remember that Initially Ninja Division was very much against doing the decals because they would be so small, and only begrudgingly added it to the kickstarter late in the game. That's what makes me doubt the decals would be in the add-ons; they were very much against making it available with the core boxed set.
Not sure if it applies to the retail box, but the core box as defined by the First Contact pledge (which was supposed to be the retail pledge) had them. The listing on the PB Store doesn't list them, but it doesn't list the blast template or command points either, and I'd expect those to be in the box. Can't get a good look at the back of the box contents, but it doesn't look like the decals are on it.
Still, seems weird they'd include them in First Contact, and not put them in all boxes. If they did, it's the only difference between the two versions.
n815e wrote: Each addon box has a full decal sheet.
The bonus stuff that came with pledges did not.
wrong just heard from a friend whos expansion box product in his store he opened did not have decal sheets and there is one guy on face book who said he got a decal sheet in his add on box from his Kickstarter pledge.
waiting to hear from another store owner who I know opened at least one expansion box.
I opened 3 core boxes and 3 Battle Cry Bonus Bags. The bonus bags definitely had decal sheets, I was swimming in the bloody things for a while, until I started sending them to people who were buying my 'expansions' (usually a sheet for the faction they were buying the most of, the bases, and a couple dice/command point tokens).
I think I still have 1 Z and 2 RDF sheets left over for my dwindling collection of sprues.
Forar wrote: I opened 3 core boxes and 3 Battle Cry Bonus Bags. The bonus bags definitely had decal sheets, I was swimming in the bloody things for a while, until I started sending them to people who were buying my 'expansions' (usually a sheet for the faction they were buying the most of, the bases, and a couple dice/command point tokens).
I think I still have 1 Z and 2 RDF sheets left over for my dwindling collection of sprues.
thing I don't get is PB sent the expansion decal packs but don't sell them in their store.
as it goes only heard of one guy who said he got a decal sheet in one of his destroid expansions packs, but he is the only one, mine had none and others had none, so are they supposed to be in the expansion boxes or not?
n815e wrote: Each addon box has a full decal sheet.
The bonus stuff that came with pledges did not.
wrong just heard from a friend whos expansion box product in his store he opened did not have decal sheets and there is one guy on face book who said he got a decal sheet in his add on box from his Kickstarter pledge.
waiting to hear from another store owner who I know opened at least one expansion box.
LOL
I guess the two valkyrie boxes I just bought that came with decal sheets should be sent back then because Asterios says "wrong".
n815e wrote: Each addon box has a full decal sheet.
The bonus stuff that came with pledges did not.
wrong just heard from a friend whos expansion box product in his store he opened did not have decal sheets and there is one guy on face book who said he got a decal sheet in his add on box from his Kickstarter pledge.
waiting to hear from another store owner who I know opened at least one expansion box.
LOL
I guess the two valkyrie boxes I just bought that came with decal sheets should be sent back then because Asterios says "wrong".
no was saying wrong that all retail boxes came with decals when they didn't, and that all KS expansions came without decals when they did.
And I ONLY got decals. But that was all that was available from my pledge as a wave 1 item. Stupid as I'd already messaged them saying don't send them, Im happy to wait for wave 2 for them. After all, I now have a 'fullfilled' pledge where I have currently paid around $150 for a $5 sheet of decals I have no models for.
:(
I wonder if it is something similar to the square/round corner cards?
Initial batch had them made in 1 way, a second batch a different way
well my card corners are round that came in the decal less expansion boxes.
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Jihadin wrote: We talking pledges boxes not containing decal sheets right?
any of the expansion boxes whether retail or pledge based whether they came with decals or not, and it seems to be a mixed bag across the board, so i'm thinking PB owes me some decals.
Forar wrote: Retail expansion boxes, if I'm not mistaken. Core boxes and bonus bags should have had them.
not talking the main game or the BC bonus bag at all, those should have had 2 decal sheets of each faction to begin with.
Mike1975 wrote: All my add-on boxes were sealed and had decals in them. I'm pretty sure they are each supposed to have one.
that's what i'm thinking but it seems like there might have been a problem at the factory since some of them didn't like a batch or two or so. since seen unboxing videos from same guy he did 3 videos one had a decal other 2 didn't, and none of the ones I got had any.
and still haven't heard from PB which way it was supposed to be yet.
ok just heard from PB:
Palladium Books says:
Hello Rick S,
Thank you for inquiring about the RRT expansion packs and have verified that the expansion packs do not come with decals.
I would point out that we didn't unlock any. They can't deliver over half of what they actually promised within two years of when they did... I don't think expecting additional products is reasonable (not that it would stop them given that they're ignoring wave 2 to make con exclusives).
I know. Please reread my comment about a convoluted mess of conflicting answers. Some customers say they got them, others say they didn't. One employee says they do, one doesn't. Typical palladium response to *insert question/situation here*.
n815e wrote: Each addon box has a full decal sheet.
The bonus stuff that came with pledges did not.
wrong just heard from a friend whos expansion box product in his store he opened did not have decal sheets and there is one guy on face book who said he got a decal sheet in his add on box from his Kickstarter pledge.
waiting to hear from another store owner who I know opened at least one expansion box.
LOL
I guess the two valkyrie boxes I just bought that came with decal sheets should be sent back then because Asterios says "wrong".
You do realise you just come off as rickish as rick, right dude?
new response from Palladium when I pointed out Carmen's words in that unboxing.
Hello Rick S,
I apologize. I see now that your referring to the standard RRT expansion packs and not the RRT Exclusive expansion packs. So I stand corrected, Yes, the standard RRT expansion packs do come with decals and your expansions should have come with them as well. So which expansions did you get that do not have decals with them?
Sorry for the inconvenience and thank you for your inquiry and support.
Asterios wrote: new response from Palladium when I pointed out Carmen's words in that unboxing.
Hello Rick S,
I apologize. I see now that your referring to the standard RRT expansion packs and not the RRT Exclusive expansion packs. So I stand corrected, Yes, the standard RRT expansion packs do come with decals and your expansions should have come with them as well. So which expansions did you get that do not have decals with them?
Sorry for the inconvenience and thank you for your inquiry and support.
Charles Walton
RRT Support Team
Palladium Books
I hope you asked what the definition of the two was, because unless something else was added, it seems like he's saying that the "Exclusive" packs are only exclusive in that they're inferior? Because to my recollection there was supposed to be no difference between the RRTKS Expansions and the retail versions, other than initial price.
Morgan Vening wrote: I hope you asked what the definition of the two was, because unless something else was added, it seems like he's saying that the "Exclusive" packs are only exclusive in that they're inferior? Because to my recollection there was supposed to be no difference between the RRTKS Expansions and the retail versions, other than initial price.
I think his "exclusive" comment is regarding the max/miriya/grel/standard vehicles that are currently being developed and pimped INSTEAD OF the remaining massively delayed wave 2 products.
Morgan Vening wrote: I hope you asked what the definition of the two was, because unless something else was added, it seems like he's saying that the "Exclusive" packs are only exclusive in that they're inferior? Because to my recollection there was supposed to be no difference between the RRTKS Expansions and the retail versions, other than initial price.
I think his "exclusive" comment is regarding the max/miriya/grel/standard vehicles that are currently being developed and pimped INSTEAD OF the remaining massively delayed wave 2 products.
Ahhh, yeah. Seeing the full conversation on the KS Comments makes that the likely scenario, as the initial Rick/Asterios (Ricksterios?) wasn't completely clear, and once that was clarified that he was referring only to released product, Chuck's response makes sense in context.
Merijeek wrote: You'd think with one guy as their exclusive point of contact for this stuff, that they could at least give Rick some consistent answers.
Hey, at least he got an answer in less than 4 months... of course, it was (mistakenly) to a question he thought was about the con minis which expedited the answer as incomimg money was possibly at risk. If he had known it was in regards to an already paid for product, it would have languished in limbo for a full season or more just like all the wave 2 inquiries.
Merijeek wrote: You'd think with one guy as their exclusive point of contact for this stuff, that they could at least give Rick some consistent answers.
Hey, at least he got an answer in less than 4 months... of course, it was (mistakenly) to a question he thought was about the con minis which expedited the answer as incomimg money was possibly at risk. If he had known it was in regards to an already paid for product, it would have languished in limbo for a full season or more just like all the wave 2 inquiries.
like I told someone earlier Chuck has been pretty good on getting a response back as long as the quester asks nicely, or politely, but I did ask him what the RRT Exclusive Expansion Packs are, since not so sure they are the GHQ stuff since those are not very exclusive but who knows?
New update is out... blah blah blah buy our stuff blah blah blah deadline extended (shocker!) blah blah blah here are some pics of the stuff we want you to buy blah blah blah.
The only part that interested me was the snark at the end...
That’s it for today. I should have more info shortly, including Breetai pics and hopefully, you know, that other thing you’ve all been asking about.
It really does seem like they regard backers as nothing but an annoyance and, sorry mike, but the idea of pandering to them so they'll be gracious info to give us information on product long overdue is sickening.
Is there still rabid defenders in the Facebook group?
PB and Kevin's cotirie do see us as an annoyance. Just look at how they treat us with contempt. There's also the condescending tone in the updates. By now the lack of updates or even any interaction seems like it's out of malice even though they and their rabid fans might claim otherwise.
Joyboozer wrote: It really does seem like they regard backers as nothing but an annoyance and, sorry mike, but the idea of pandering to them so they'll be gracious info to give us information on product long overdue is sickening.
Is there still rabid defenders in the Facebook group?
Oh I've been clear in all my communication with them of what I think of not getting wave 2 info. They try to evade responding to me on that front too. You'd be surprised at how many of what many call "Defenders" also ask constantly for updates. But some just like to assume whatever fits their fancy so...
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Cypher-xv wrote: PB and Kevin's cotirie do see us as an annoyance. Just look at how they treat us with contempt. There's also the condescending tone in the updates. By now the lack of updates or even any interaction seems like it's out of malice even though they and their rabid fans might claim otherwise.
That tone has ALWAYS been lame and condescending. It's nothing new and has nothing to do with wave 2. It's like habit for them. I don't read the updates often myself.
Joyboozer wrote: It really does seem like they regard backers as nothing but an annoyance and, sorry mike, but the idea of pandering to them so they'll be gracious info to give us information on product long overdue is sickening.
Is there still rabid defenders in the Facebook group?
Oh I've been clear in all my communication with them of what I think of not getting wave 2 info. They try to evade responding to me on that front too. You'd be surprised at how many of what many call "Defenders" also ask constantly for updates. But some just like to assume whatever fits their fancy so...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cypher-xv wrote: PB and Kevin's cotirie do see us as an annoyance. Just look at how they treat us with contempt. There's also the condescending tone in the updates. By now the lack of updates or even any interaction seems like it's out of malice even though they and their rabid fans might claim otherwise.
That tone has ALWAYS been lame and condescending. It's nothing new and has nothing to do with wave 2. It's like habit for them. I don't read the updates often myself.
You haven't been missing much (beyond sales pitches for minis sight/rules unseen). Well, minis for you but not the rules. The blatant trolling is new though. Normally, it's just faux respect for you, the backers, followed by empy promises and unsubstantiated "reviews" of just how awesome everything is (that you can't see).
I just don't understand how anyone could not be pissed at this point, I'd expect the people who were the most annoyed would be those actually playing the game, is that what you're seeing in your group Mike?
I received my wave 1; looked at it; thought the rules were better than expected; waited a week and realized I would never put the time and effort into assembling and painting it, so listed it on eBay. Just about revenue neutral on this, so not pissed. Feel more like the resignation when my 4 year old throws a tantrum, because I insist she do something on her own.
"Resigned" yep, that is probably about right.
If the turkeys did not have my extra purchases money I would probably cease to care but no, I will have to go get it if they fail to ship before a years time.
"That’s it for today. I should have more info shortly, including Breetai pics and hopefully, you know, that other thing you’ve all been asking about."
Wonder which "fine" person scribed this latest missive.
Top marks for acknowledging the obvious with that nice humor twist, just makes me want to smile and go on a trip to Detroit and give some "constructive feedback" on public relations and how I would like to formally conduct them.
If you're unhappy with how things are progressing and you feel that the lack of communication breaks the KS contract as well as using the KS updates for the selling of existing goods from other companies breaks their prohibited items site rule (which does prohibit selling existing items from other companies), you can always bring it to the attention of Kickstarter.
If enough people bring to their attention that they're breaking multiple rules by offering 10 year old sculpts for sale via KS updates while ignoring their rewards, maybe at least they'll look into it. Doing anything though is another story yet to be written. What are the other choices? Spitting into the wind (aka screaming about lawsuits for years on end without actually filing one)?
As an aside (but still related), I went ahead and reported a certain baseball shirt wearing fellow to Kickstarter. Or at least sort of. Perhaps if we flood their "ask us a question" inbox reporting him they'll do something about his trolling.
whats funny is how people still think there is a wave 2 coming out, lol that is funny indeed, as for me i'm getting my own future generations and wave 2 stuff done.
Asterios wrote: whats funny is how people still think there is a wave 2 coming out, lol that is funny indeed, as for me i'm getting my own future generations and wave 2 stuff done.
Oh, it IS funny, looking forward to the point it is clear PB is not going to make good on wave2.
They will be a new hobby.
Getting your own stuff done?
I was ready to say that sounds like a whole lot of derp but believing in the Easter-Kevin-Bunny is not much better.
Yeah, Joshua is a classic troll on the KS page.
I am so glad his higher IQ can keep us amused as we await the great heat death of the universe that is wave2.
Joyboozer wrote: I just don't understand how anyone could not be pissed at this point, I'd expect the people who were the most annoyed would be those actually playing the game, is that what you're seeing in your group Mike?
Some pissed, some apathetic, some still waiting patiently
Alpharius wrote: I'd be the same 'Joshua' of the hot wife, personal rocket ship and Scrooge McDuck money vault fame?
The one and same. Far as I recall him claiming and hearing from other sources, he bought up a bunch of peoples pledges and then turned them around for a decent profit on eBay. Since he got his, clearly everyone else is just whiny whinebabies who whinywhinewine.
What's funny is that he's also in the SoB campaign for just a dollar. When the PM came out, FFP said that $1 backers wouldn't be able to get multiple sets, and what starry profit margins he might've had in his eyes vanished. Doubly so in that even annoyed backers seem pretty impressed with the quality (there are legit complaints and some frustration, but unlike RRT I've found trying to buy someone's Mine Cart unsuccessful over the last few months). People were flat out taking a haircut to get rid of their pledges for this campaign.
Joyboozer wrote: I just don't understand how anyone could not be pissed at this point, I'd expect the people who were the most annoyed would be those actually playing the game, is that what you're seeing in your group Mike?
Some pissed, some apathetic, some still waiting patiently
And some that seem to neither like nor dislike the game, but actively enjoy trolling the slightest critique against the game in meme and text spam.
Yes, yes, it's annoying to hear about it time and again. I'm aware.
Doesn't make their antagonism any less annoying either.
I am probably done with my power-pout hiatus of working on the RRT models.
Might as well continue with painting.
Funny how computer games become the go-to "Pillars of Eternity" is sucking much time.
I remember reading somewhere a game critic said ">40 year olds don't really enjoy games, they just look for games they used to like when they were younger.".
I am afraid that might be right, may explain some measure of dissatisfaction lately and occasional indulgences in retail therapy.
The "improved" Baulder's Gate type interface makes navigation stupid simple for me to use.
Any actual news of wave 2 just might give some incentive to do RRT models.
40k models are looking more the draw if I "must" paint.
warboss wrote: You're in the US for gencon? Your flag changed. Will you interview palladium politely but firmly there?
Not me. I just have a habit of using a VPN to skip around the world.
I'm pretty much always in the US. I'm as American as an apple pie riding a Harley while chugging high-fructose corn syrup.
I haven't been to Gen Con in...three years I think. And the main reason I Was able to pull that off is because I happened to arrange a work trip to put in in Indy the week before Gen Con. So, a nearly all-expenses paid trip which was kind of nice.
me I love Robotech, before this Kickstarter I did not even know PB still existed since didn't see any of their items being sold around me, but since this KickStarter I have learned to loathe PB with an absolute vehemence and disgust.
now I just bide my time till I get my money back or PB goes under, or they ever fill the rest of our product and I will never have anything to do with them again.
Asterios wrote: me I love Robotech, before this Kickstarter I did not even know PB still existed since didn't see any of their items being sold around me, but since this KickStarter I have learned to loathe PB with an absolute vehemence and disgust.
now I just bide my time till I get my money back or PB goes under, or they ever fill the rest of our product and I will never have anything to do with them again.
Rather familiar ring to what you wrote.
Robotech tabletop game: how could anyone mess that up and not make a mint?
With the added bonus of tying into Battletech "unseen", how can you lose?
Ah, yes, nevermind.
This is the "unreasonable" frustration part: there is a hope they may EVENTUALLY do the wave 2, they DID get wave 1 done BUT the only thing that will kill those efforts dead is if PB burned through all the money before the dies got made. Then I am 98% certain nothing is coming out of those clowns without bank/credit-company/lawyers big stick applied or the closing of their doors (which is as anticipated as GW's fall/fail).
If PB out of money: I go hunting for my money spent on wave2 orders made by backer-kit, if it ever hits retail I would grab some stuff later but I doubt it.
If PB is still chugging along on the wave 2 (Y U No talk about it PB?!) I will grumble but fine, as long as it is coming, so be it.
Meanwhile, not rewarding them for getting distracted with the GHQ stuff.
Just remember....GHQ in the end sought PB out. Not the other way around. The idea that that alone distracts PB is like saying only a squirrel distracts a dog. They have an established history of jumping around. Thinking GHQ is a problem is like thinking one zit on a facefull is a problem. PB needs to learn to manage what they got and not add to the ever growing list of RPG wishlist books. Working a bit on everything just makes sure nothing gets done. Been saying for 2 years that they need a proper project manager.
GHQ making models for Robotech isn't a problem, and in fact it's pretty nice of them.
What's infuriating is PB being too busy chasing squirrels (or sticking their head up their behind) to give us any information about the remaining "Wave 2" models.
If PB would give us an honest update, I would actually consider getting the GHQ stuff like Grell, Bretai and the Comancharo - and would root for more of it (though I'm really turned off by metal minis).
I do think GHQ is going to regret partnering with PB - when somewhere down the line they blame (and take to court) GHQ for "non-fulfillment" of minis PB won't pay for and customers won't buy.
Nah, I'm not talking about the KS stuff. More like something like:
PB: Hey guys, would you mind making us a YF-17 plane for RRT?
GHQ: Sure, we can do that.
...6 months pass...
PB: Where's our YF-17?
GHQ: You never paid us our cut for the Grell, Bretai and Miriya figures. Can't do them until you pay us.
PB: But....but...but - (whips out paper) Weee had a contract! Crisis of Treachery 3! **Jazz Hands**
Mike1975 wrote: Just remember....GHQ in the end sought PB out. Not the other way around. The idea that that alone distracts PB is like saying only a squirrel distracts a dog.
No, fast revenue with little effort distracts them, I point to "dice bag".
They have an established history of jumping around. Thinking GHQ is a problem is like thinking one zit on a facefull is a problem.
But since they have a "faceful" of late everything, they are hoping wave2 is not noticed.
PB needs to learn to manage what they got and not add to the ever growing list of RPG wishlist books. Working a bit on everything just makes sure nothing gets done.
I suspect they like multiple projects open for variety of work and they feel "so incredibly busy".
I laugh at those "been up till 3:00am!!" postings: it is a roleplay book you did no playtesting, not Game of Thrones.
Been saying for 2 years that they need a proper project manager.
That would be acknowledging that projects are not "managed" properly by someone. Not bloody likely to happen.
Remember you are asking for a new hire from a company that regularly asks for volunteers when they have work beyond the norm than engage temp workers.
"Blaming" GHQ I think is not anyone's intent, it is awesome what they are doing.
Withholding purchases of further PB product until confidence is restored of wave2 progress is a logical response to their project "management".
It blows my mind how such a small company that has hung-on by a shoe-string has the conceit it does.
Anyway, well trod path (rant) we heard before.
Bothers me that no matter the circumstance, all this is easily fixed by proper communication.
I have faced way worse than this in my career in aerospace and automotive: this is producing product for "artistic", beauty and fit/functional criteria only.
Weekly email update is out and the wave 2 info is as follows:
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ We have a telephone conference with the manufacturing broker next week to discuss a number of Wave Two related details. Rules, stats and other things are also coming your way. Working on a number of things related to this game line.
They'll be making a phone call... plus vague promise of more info made (to be placed next to the dozens of unfulfilled ones that pledged to do the same). Also, Kevin says that someone whose paycheck in part depends on keeping Kevin happy said the Robotech Marines books is awesome. Gotta love the impossible to substantiate paid for reviews! Hey, at least this time it wasn't an employee of Palladium or a fan-friend who stopped by the office. I guess splitting off 10 pages and uploading up a preview on DTRPG instead would be too hard.
That's a very nice horde you have. Incidentally, you've probably put together and painted more models now than palladium at least judging from last year's gencon which was supply constrained. We'll see if they put as much effort into showcasing their $1.4 million dollar project as you have since then.
warboss wrote: That's a very nice horde you have. Incidentally, you've probably put together and painted more models now than palladium at least judging from last year's gencon which was supply constrained. We'll see if they put as much effort into showcasing their $1.4 million dollar project as you have since then.
actually other then some slab painted ones on eBay I think my Horde is the largest amount shown anywhere by anyone.
as it goes taking a break from Zentraedi for now might work on some UEDF forces for awhile
Instead of history lessons, offers to sell us accessories to the game they had yet to finish, and blatant trolling of backers.
Since I'm pining over the impossible from my childhood and early teens, I might as well throw in my equally realistic romantic rendezvous with Erin Grey from Buck Rogers and Rocketeer era Jennifer Connelly since I'm about as likely to get that.
Instead of history lessons, offers to sell us accessories to the game they had yet to finish, and blatant trolling of backers.
Since I'm pining over the impossible from my childhood and early teens, I might as well throw in my equally realistic romantic rendezvous with Erin Grey from Buck Rogers and Rocketeer era Jennifer Connelly since I'm about as likely to get that.
you have a better chance with Erin Grey and/or Jennifer Connelly then to get an answer about wave 2 from PB.
Instead of history lessons, offers to sell us accessories to the game they had yet to finish, and blatant trolling of backers.
Since I'm pining over the impossible from my childhood and early teens, I might as well throw in my equally realistic romantic rendezvous with Erin Grey from Buck Rogers and Rocketeer era Jennifer Connelly since I'm about as likely to get that.
you have a better chance with Erin Grey and/or Jennifer Connelly then to get an answer about wave 2 from PB.
Agreed. The chances of getting screwed by Palladium is about 98% right now... Erin Grey and Jennifer Connelly, fast approaching zero.
"We are continuing to explore ways to reduce the number of pieces for Robotech® RPG Tactics™ and make it less time consuming to build the game pieces. We had a positive telephone conference with the manufacturing broker. Working on a good number of things related to this game line and Wave Two."
Manufacturing brokers act as the representatives of manufacturers and as the intermediary between the customer and the factory.
They are particularly useful with overseas business transactions.
If they didn't have someone that spoke Chinese, understood the needs of the factories, the laws involved, etc. then you would be griping about that.
Of all the things to go on about, picking on them saying that they are conducting normal and responsible business practice is... odd.
Of all the things to go on about, picking on them saying that they are conducting normal and responsible business practice TWO YEARS AFTER THE FACT is... COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED.
It stands entirely at odds with their (now stated at least three times, of their own volition) statements about delivery by the end of the year (or early next year).
For a group that has allegedly taken to not giving target dates, they seem to talk about when they plan to deliver an awful lot.
At least that's the discrepancy for me. If they talked about their conference call in updates that regularly showed progress in the project, that'd be sensible.
Talking about a delivery time frame while also apparently being no where near actual production is more of the same bullgak.
Especially after their big weepy 'omg this is so hard and here we are, trying to turn over a new leaf' updates that this very thread is named for.
Nearly 2 months later and they haven't changed a fething thing.
Just highlights the fact they felt we as customers needed to create a "fresh start" while PB does same old.
What is not to be confused is they are talking about the manufacture of the dies.
Cuts are still being discussed.
That means die layout is not even determined yet.
We are a long way off from popping out sprues.
Well, at least the broker is talking to them so at least the appearance of money for the project is there.
It will also probably mean the end of the cross-buying of the Spacy stuff, most probably, if Catalyst do these half as good as they're doing the current lance packs.
It's likely 5 parts, 2, arms, missile launcher, search light, 1pc body. Which of course means it'll lose all the detail and look like a slab of poo since only a 20+ part plastic model can deliver precision. (at least according to PB)
warboss wrote: That render is a fake. I don't see gaps on every surface facing the virtual camera.
And my guess is 7-9 pieces... you know... if it were real.
It will depend. If they do them in plastic, and mean for them to complement their current Lance packs, they'll make them single piece, base included. If they do them in metal, though... well, let's just say I got somewhat disappointed in the current metal 'mechs.
@Albertorius: I'm really not a fan of the battletech minis. If they can make something that actually looks like forar's mouthwatering render, I might change my mind. The ones you posted look like they should come out of a gumball machine for $0.50. Heck, the macross stamp I have on my painting desk is about that quality and I got it for free in the mid 80's.
warboss wrote: @Albertorius: I'm really not a fan of the battletech minis. If they can make something that actually looks like forar's mouthwatering render, I might change my mind. The ones you posted look like they should come out of a gumball machine for $0.50. Heck, the macross stamp I have on my painting desk is about that quality and I got it for free in the mid 80's.
That's one part due to the designs, and another due to them being single piece minis, meant to "plug and play", so to speak. I expect them to do the same for the new minis. As to the wuality of the minis, they're actually pretty nice, all in all. Hard plastic, not much flash... and you can buy and play, right off the bat. If you like I could take some pics of the actual minis from the latest starter compared with Robotech/HG minis.
All in all, though, they're doing a product that's meant to be quite different in goals.
No, I'm good but thanks. I'm not a fan of the CBT rules and the alpha strike stuff swings the pendulum too far to the other side IMO. That combined with the minis' looks means that I'm incredibly unlikely to be a good customer for that iconic mech game.
Of all the things to go on about, picking on them saying that they are conducting normal and responsible business practice TWO YEARS AFTER THE FACT is... COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED.
I corrected that for you.
If you are reaching for anything to complain about, to the point where you are going to complain about them doing the things that they should to get us the rest of our stuff, then that's something you should reflect on.
n815e wrote: Manufacturing brokers act as the representatives of manufacturers and as the intermediary between the customer and the factory.
They are particularly useful with overseas business transactions.
If they didn't have someone that spoke Chinese, understood the needs of the factories, the laws involved, etc. then you would be griping about that.
Of all the things to go on about, picking on them saying that they are conducting normal and responsible business practice is... odd.
Nope. I just now have a pretty good idea who will be blamed next.
If you are reaching for anything to complain about, to the point where you are going to complain about them doing the things that they should to get us the rest of our stuff, then that's something you should reflect on.
And, really, the part you're missing, is that this laudable thing they're doing, the thing that is, newsworthy, the thing that is essentially the only "forward progress" (term used generously) of note for Wave Two, is what they should be doing on an extremely regular basis.
So decide, is this phone call, one that is worthy of being the only real Wave Two update mention, a big deal (but you said it's supposed to be something they do regularly!) or is it not a big deal (why don't we hear about it weekly?).
n815e wrote: Manufacturing brokers act as the representatives of manufacturers and as the intermediary between the customer and the factory.
They are particularly useful with overseas business transactions.
If they didn't have someone that spoke Chinese, understood the needs of the factories, the laws involved, etc. then you would be griping about that.
Of all the things to go on about, picking on them saying that they are conducting normal and responsible business practice is... odd.
It's really not as normal as it sounds. I've done plenty of business in China over the past 10 years without a broker. I know other clients who do the same. I suspect this broker is more like Panda Manufacturing, ie. a middleman who just sources factories and places orders with them without doing much else.
warboss wrote: No, I'm good but thanks. I'm not a fan of the CBT rules and the alpha strike stuff swings the pendulum too far to the other side IMO. That combined with the minis' looks means that I'm incredibly unlikely to be a good customer for that iconic mech game.
The Battletech ruleset is certainly not for everyone, that's for sure.
I rebounded off it quite heavily back in the day myself, when I discovered HG.
If you like I could take some pics of the actual minis from the latest starter compared with Robotech/HG minis.
If you don't mind, I'll take a bite on that - I've been considering grabbing the BT boxed set, but reluctant because I haven't seen the minis.
I have a couple of the old 3rd edition plastic minis for BT with the unseens in them. They were quite decent quality and that was back somewhere in the 90's, I think. I really like the look of the plastic ones shown above, and the new render for the BT Warhammer/Tomahawk looks awesome to my eyes. I'd much rather give Catalyst my money for one-piece ready to play minis than PB for their 200-piece meh quality junk.
Battletech was fun to play back in the early 90's, but seeing one ugly design after another I couldn't stay into it for long. Most of the designs I do like are clan and a few innersphere mechs. The rules were too much for me personally. Games seemed to take a long time from what little I could remember. From what I've seen many of the designs look like there half a$$ed and not much work put into them. I've always preferred the Japanese BT designs. If I had those available back then I might have stayed with BT till this day. I have to admit I do like their latest design and it does seem like PB is going to lose more money when the new unseen redesign minis come out, which will probably be before wave two does. Not to mention it won't be 12 plus pieces to put together. I'm sure the BT people have been watching this fiasco of a project for some time and figured they can do it better while taking money away from PB.
n815e wrote: Manufacturing brokers act as the representatives of manufacturers and as the intermediary between the customer and the factory.
They are particularly useful with overseas business transactions.
If they didn't have someone that spoke Chinese, understood the needs of the factories, the laws involved, etc. then you would be griping about that.
Of all the things to go on about, picking on them saying that they are conducting normal and responsible business practice is... odd.
As it goes n815e you just described a factory rep, not a broker, but a rep and the two shall never be confused, the fact PB confused them tells me they are lying.
the problem n815e is if PB is just now dealing with a broker, we are a good year plus away from any product being shipped, this should have been handled a long time ago, problem is PB's whole statement sounds like they were blowing smoke up our rears, cause a Broker introduces both parties with compatible matches, while a Company Rep, handles things like PB was mentioning, there is a very, very large difference there.
A broker does not hold PB's hands, nor does it translate for them, or pass along info on a regular basis, Brokers get paid big bucks which is why you have them find your match and then move on. the factory rep handles the countries laws and translation and the day to day operations with overseas accounts.
As it goes I think ND arranged all the wave one stuff for PB, PB burned those bridges and now have to do it themselves and they have no clue how to.
If you like I could take some pics of the actual minis from the latest starter compared with Robotech/HG minis.
If you don't mind, I'll take a bite on that - I've been considering grabbing the BT boxed set, but reluctant because I haven't seen the minis.
I have a couple of the old 3rd edition plastic minis for BT with the unseens in them. They were quite decent quality and that was back somewhere in the 90's, I think. I really like the look of the plastic ones shown above, and the new render for the BT Warhammer/Tomahawk looks awesome to my eyes. I'd much rather give Catalyst my money for one-piece ready to play minis than PB for their 200-piece meh quality junk.
Sure. Let's see:
A Hunchback and an Archer
Spoiler:
One piece, hard plastic (dunno what kind), the details are sharper in the Archer but the amount of detail might be even bigger in the Hunchback. I have not cleaned the Hunchback at all.
Next, Assassin vs. Warhammer
Spoiler:
Same deal, the Assasin is one piece and it's completely untouched.
Next, Mad Cat vs. Archer
Spoiler:
This is a bit different: the Mad Cat is one of the two "special" minis in the starter, in the sense that they are multipart, and come in a sprue. This one is 6 pieces total, plus base.
The Cat is glued together, but untouched any other way.
Last, two painted/semi painted ones: Battlemaster vs. Stinger:
Spoiler:
I didn't really clean the BMaster, but the painting is semi decent. It is the other special mini of the starter, and this one came in 5 pieces, plus base (now that I think of it, they might go this way for the re-re-seens, I guess).
The Stinger, OTOH, has a lot of filling in cleaning up work done... and even then I see it was not enough to cover everything >_>
Thanks Albertorius, that was very informative. (The Hunchback needs to stop dieting and the Assassin has some tiny, tiny feet)
Have to agree on the paperwork aspect of BT - the level of detail and random hit locations always stuck in my craw, I've picked up the Alpha Strike rules and I'm hoping one day I'll get a chance to try them out.
Have to agree on the paperwork aspect of BT - the level of detail and random hit locations always stuck in my craw, I've picked up the Alpha Strike rules and I'm hoping one day I'll get a chance to try them out.
I can second the stuff on the new plastic BT minis. They are very nice and good to go out of box. The drawback is mono-pose, a bit strange to see 3 Awesomes of the same lance in the same pose. If you want to spend time to customize things up, it's not too bad either.
Unlike RRT minis.
In terms of details, the BT minis are about on part with the RRT minis, which is more a slap to the RRT minis than anything since the BT original line art already hides lots of details -- the mechs aren't superdetailed by any means and the minis followed. RRT minis could have had more details, but instead chose the worse of several worlds.
(Having said all that, RRT minis still have some advantages, but I'm just sick and tired of the sugar coating PB is giving us.)
BT rules are fairly involved but the new Alpha Strike rules go fairly quickly. As in mech goes boom quickly, so it's more a company-level fight than anything. It's pretty nice rules.
My only problem with Alpha Strike is that the miniatures are not in the same scale. I have a stinger that is the taller than the Goliath, and Phoenix Hawk. The Scorpion is larger/has more volume than the Goliath. A game using LOS for attack mechanics needs to have more consistent scaling in it's units.
megatrons2nd wrote: My only problem with Alpha Strike is that the miniatures are not in the same scale. I have a stinger that is the taller than the Goliath, and Phoenix Hawk. The Scorpion is larger/has more volume than the Goliath. A game using LOS for attack mechanics needs to have more consistent scaling in it's units.
I use hexes, so I really haven't had any problems in that regard.
They could bear being a bit more coherent with their scaling, though. It's not really that difficult...
megatrons2nd wrote: My only problem with Alpha Strike is that the miniatures are not in the same scale. I have a stinger that is the taller than the Goliath, and Phoenix Hawk. The Scorpion is larger/has more volume than the Goliath. A game using LOS for attack mechanics needs to have more consistent scaling in it's units.
I use hexes, so I really haven't had any problems in that regard.
They could bear being a bit more coherent with their scaling, though. It's not really that difficult...
I prefer hexes myself, and play that way whenever I can, but the local area prefers the real terrain method, because it "looks better".
megatrons2nd wrote: My only problem with Alpha Strike is that the miniatures are not in the same scale. I have a stinger that is the taller than the Goliath, and Phoenix Hawk. The Scorpion is larger/has more volume than the Goliath. A game using LOS for attack mechanics needs to have more consistent scaling in it's units.
I use hexes, so I really haven't had any problems in that regard.
They could bear being a bit more coherent with their scaling, though. It's not really that difficult...
I prefer hexes myself, and play that way whenever I can, but the local area prefers the real terrain method, because it "looks better".
The last time we played we used Heroscape terrain, a nice mix of both methods
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Well I'm out, if anyone wants my wave 1 stuff (battlecry pledge) it's up here
Sadly, I am a hoarder, so I'll be along until PB goes belly up or we actually do get Wave 2. There are times I wish I had the sense to cut and run, and this project would certainly be the one.
May I ask what lead to the decision?
There are many I am sure, I am curious and you seem like the level headed sort.
I know if wave 2 will not happen I will sell the bunch in a heartbeat.
Minus what I can recover for Battletech of course.
I'm moving overseas again and it's time to downsize.
The box has sat unopened and unloved for a year now.
I've painted all of half a mini this year, granted I was in school and have the twins but things aren't likely to get better.
But finally the contempt and lack of communication from Palladium did me in. I also have a pile of unopened kits from Dreamforge but y'know, I like them. I like their communication and style, sooner or later I will get around to building their kits and will buy more.
Maybe a year (or two, or three) from now when I hold Super VTs in my hand I might feel differently but right now, I just want to forget I ever gave Palladium and Harmony Gold my money.
Sadly, I am a hoarder, so I'll be along until PB goes belly up or we actually do get Wave 2. There are times I wish I had the sense to cut and run, and this project would certainly be the one.
I too was a hoarder, then came a wife, 2 kids and moving every 1-3 years. It's fixing that right up.
As it goes n815e you just described a factory rep, not a broker, but a rep and the two shall never be confused, the fact PB confused them tells me they are lying.
Rick, I know you make it up as you go along, but manufacturing brokers are reps. Brokers represent a set of clients.
the problem n815e is if PB is just now dealing with a broker, we are a good year plus away from any product being shipped, this should have been handled a long time ago
If you are reaching for anything to complain about, to the point where you are going to complain about them doing the things that they should to get us the rest of our stuff, then that's something you should reflect on.
And, really, the part you're missing, is that this laudable thing they're doing, the thing that is, newsworthy, the thing that is essentially the only "forward progress" (term used generously) of note for Wave Two, is what they should be doing on an extremely regular basis.
So decide, is this phone call, one that is worthy of being the only real Wave Two update mention, a big deal (but you said it's supposed to be something they do regularly!) or is it not a big deal (why don't we hear about it weekly?).
I didn't claim it was "laudable". Amazingly enough, not everything needs to be super awesomesauce or really terrible (if you see the world like that, then you are a lot like Kevin Siembieda). There is the day to day work that should be getting done.
You have been on this broker thing since they first brought it up.
You first rewrote their words so that you could claim they said that they have no broker or manufacturer, as though it wasn't clear as day what they actually wrote.
You have become so accustomed to complaining about them that you will literally criticize them for doing what they are supposed to so we can get our stuff. And when they post something that shouldn't be controversial, you rewrite it into something to give yourself a reason to complain.
As it goes n815e you just described a factory rep, not a broker, but a rep and the two shall never be confused, the fact PB confused them tells me they are lying.
Rick, I know you make it up as you go along, but manufacturing brokers are reps. Brokers represent a set of clients.
for starters a manufacturing broker is the guy who pairs up a company with a factory, in this situation company "A" (PB) tells the broker what they are looking for, then the Broker finds company "B" that can meet these requirements, once the match is made, then the company "B" sets up PB company "A" with a rep to deal with them thru, they have to go thru all of this since they don't have someone there themselves to find a factory to do the job for them, which is why they have the broker to do that for them, I know this cause a friend of mine who deals with making plastic mini items thru China complained about all the levels he had to go thru which this was one of them, now PB may have mixed up the names but doubt it.
furthermore if they are still dealing with a broker, they do not have a factory in place yet. and most likely they are trying to find a factory they do not have to preset a manufacturing date to and "Reserve" tooling and stamping time with which will cost PB whether they meet that time or not.
Asterios wrote: the problem n815e is if PB is just now dealing with a broker, we are a good year plus away from any product being shipped, this should have been handled a long time ago
Palladium seems like the kind of place where they'll put off giving you something for a week or two then demand you finish it in 24 hours because it needs to be out the next day (and publicly blame you for it not being ready as originally scheduled despite the delay actually being on their end).
Huge spiders, drop bears, and now pube entangled mecha? That's a dangerous place to live.
Certainly too rich for my blood to try to field anything at that price.
