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Post by: Lord_Astaroth
Wow. This is getting silly. So this has turned into a photoshop thread. Also it appears to be a thread about people posting about how much the Dreadknight looks like a person with a baby carrier. Yep, it looks a bit silly, I'm planning on converting mine and doing something about it.
Gotta say, less than impressed about the Jokaero. Wasn't planning on buying one when I first heard about them, might convert some super servitor or something though to represent it.
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Post by: Calvinus
I dunno, the DreadKnight reminds me more of Dr Evil carrying around Mini-Me, but maybe that's just me.
I love the GK now though. I have always loved their fluff but never liked the rules for deamonhunters. Terminators should be troops, like they are now. And an elite army needs some type of montrous creature and dreaknight fits the bill perfectly 
And as for Draigo, someone else pointed this out, Greek mythology is full of waaayy OTT characters. For me, the GK OTT-ness just makes it more attractive, not less.
As for myself, I'm super excited about these new models and am constantly trying to resist the urge to buy 10 of everything.
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Post by: Pyriel-
Right, because Dakka represents the whole of the 40K community. Don't suppose you've taken a look at the "Who likes the Dreadknight" poll here? Even if Dakka was a microcosm of the 40K world, your "whining orgy" would be unfounded.
I even posted in that thread, paying attention would have told you that.
After 40 pages of pictures and random jokes, you're going to nitpick and hope that they start enforcing restraint now?
Again, try opening your eyes a little and you will see that a mod choose to enforce the "+1" type of text quotes now.
I was curious as to why quoting pics with one liners added is ok when quoting text is not.
So, not only do you want to focus purely on sales (you don't work for GW, do you?) but you want all chapters (even marines that aren't chapters) to be the same? Space Wolves got Long Fangs - you don't want those too?
Third time, a little attention will teach you that chapters like space wolves have dirt cheap unit options and thus are not suffering as much from model/unit count.
Thus chapters like the GKs could imo balance that a little by offering a little leeway in slot competition by taking LRs as dedicated transports.
And I think you missed his point.
Well you missed three of mine so its ok
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but apparently even if you take Coteaz, you still need Grey Knight troops to fulfill the FO requirements. :(
Really?
So no pure =I= armies then?
...thats a downer but then again this IS the grey knight codex after all.
since i'm apparently the only person who is excited about the 2 wound paladins, i'll ask the question. does anyone know if their entry has changed since the previous leak/rumors? do they still get the same options for the same cost? i heard a mention that halberds might cost points now but that was in regard to regular grey knights.
Same here and also do they get any form of options to increase staying power from enemy AP1-2 shooting or are they just stuck being glass cannons at range?
In other words, are there options to build shooty GKT armies that dont necessary have to be stuck in Cc as soon as possible to stand a chance surviving?
The Dreadknight (somewhat like the Chibli Hawk) is much better once you see the kit. I'm still in the 'don't like' group for the 'hawk, but the Knight is fantastic. I give it a week before a lot of people change camps and start whining against their whining here.
That sounds very promising.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Lord_Astaroth wrote:Gotta say, less than impressed about the Jokaero. Wasn't planning on buying one when I first heard about them, might convert some super servitor or something though to represent it.
Yeah. I was hoping for a new take on the creature - some fancy techy stuff and so on. It's just a monkey with a backpack. Looks like something you could have in Speed Racer.
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Post by: Mr Hyena
Fancy tech would mean they are intellegent (even armour sort of would). That doesn't fit with Jokaero fluff. They are fine as is.
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Post by: Target
Can anyone confirm that has had hands on book...psycannons...24 inches only?
If so...ugh, first removing the teleporters from troops, now shortening the psycannons.
..mutter...
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Post by: Therion
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but apparently even if you take Coteaz, you still need Grey Knight troops to fulfill the FO requirements. :(
This would be awful news. The troops choice GK just aren't very good.
Can anyone confirm that has had hands on book...psycannons...24 inches only?
This in turn would mean the balance between GK and henchmen is even more skewed in the henchmen's favour. If henchmen can't form the basis of this army because of some restrictions the army simply won't be as competitive as we expected it to be.
=> Warlord-Titan style (which I love!)
I think I'll build the heads on top of their shoulders instead of into the chest. This will make them taller and more imposing and less hunchbacked.
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Post by: AgeOfEgos
Therion wrote:
This in turn would mean the balance between GK and henchmen is even more skewed in the henchmen's favour. If henchmen can't form the basis of this army because of some restrictions the army simply won't be as competitive as we expected it to be.
2 min GK Squads = 100 pts each?
Add two las/ plas razors for them = 90ish pts each?
That's 380ish for two las/ plas razors and your troops filled?
Add Coteaz for 100ish?
480ish?
3 henchmen are 'cheap' and with las/ plas razor, cost less than 100?
So 18 las/ plas razors in an 2k army, all of which score? Sounds pretty tough to me. Fun to play with/against....not so much. Cheap to collect....not so much. It would be lol worthy against some armies though. Really, forcing someone to take two GK squads to fulfill troops only costs the player 160ish points----after that it's all the same.
Provided of course, they don't FAQ the fact that you can only take 4 henchmen squads (On top of the 2 min. troop choices)...which I believe they will.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Mr Hyena wrote:Fancy tech would mean they are intellegent (even armour sort of would). That doesn't fit with Jokaero fluff. They are fine as is.
He's wearing a 'fabricator backpack'. How is that not fancy tech? And Jokaero are intelligent, they're just on a different level to most sentient beings (a bit like the Vespid, who don't even register other people until they have a helm slapped on them).
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Post by: AgeOfEgos
Every time I see that Jokaero, I think;
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Post by: Fix
frgsinwntr wrote:Lord Scythican wrote:[
Works for me!
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Post by: ph34r
Therion wrote:I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but apparently even if you take Coteaz, you still need Grey Knight troops to fulfill the FO requirements. :(
This would be awful news. The troops choice GK just aren't very good.
Coteaz does not remove the fact that selecting a Henchmen unit counts as a selection, thus enabling it to fulfill mandatory selections. (please note: there is no mention of "slot" in the FOC rules or the henchmen rules)
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Post by: Magister187
ph34r wrote:Therion wrote:I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but apparently even if you take Coteaz, you still need Grey Knight troops to fulfill the FO requirements. :(
This would be awful news. The troops choice GK just aren't very good.
Coteaz does not remove the fact that selecting a Henchmen unit counts as a selection, thus enabling it to fulfill mandatory selections. (please note: there is no mention of "slot" in the FOC rules or the henchmen rules)
rofl. Not this again...
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Post by: ph34r
Magister187 wrote:ph34r wrote:Therion wrote:I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but apparently even if you take Coteaz, you still need Grey Knight troops to fulfill the FO requirements. :(
This would be awful news. The troops choice GK just aren't very good.
Coteaz does not remove the fact that selecting a Henchmen unit counts as a selection, thus enabling it to fulfill mandatory selections. (please note: there is no mention of "slot" in the FOC rules or the henchmen rules)
rofl. Not this again...
It seems to be the consensus among people that have an understanding of the rules that henchmen do fulfill mandatory slots, in my experience across the various 40k forums.
That is to say, people who have actually read the rules, rather than assuming that there is a "slot" system that requires "filling".
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Post by: puma713
Pyriel- wrote:puma713 wrote:
Right, because Dakka represents the whole of the 40K community. Don't suppose you've taken a look at the "Who likes the Dreadknight" poll here? Even if Dakka was a microcosm of the 40K world, your "whining orgy" would be unfounded.
I even posted in that thread, paying attention would have told you that.
So, even after posting in the thread that shows otherwise, you choose to describe it completely differently. Interesting - I assumed that since you posted otherwise, maybe you hadn't read that thread. It's even funnier that you had.
Pyriel- wrote:puma713 wrote:After 40 pages of pictures and random jokes, you're going to nitpick and hope that they start enforcing restraint now?
Again, try opening your eyes a little and you will see that a mod choose to enforce the "+1" type of text quotes now.
I was curious as to why quoting pics with one liners added is ok when quoting text is not.
On page 36, yes. But pictures have pervaded the entire thread. Quoting walls of text for a one-liner is never permitted and hardly ever funny. However, the mechanics of comedy sort of need the picture to be visible when you present your one-liner. Sort of like slapstick. If I described a slapstick routine to you, you probably wouldn't think it was very funny. But if you saw it, you may. Or, someone could have simply mod alerted the wall of text. Either way, does it do good to complain about it on page 40? Even though you were complaining in a passive agressive way? This is rhetorical. I don't expect an answer. I fully expect you to continue to complain about the complaining.
Pyriel- wrote:puma713 wrote:So, not only do you want to focus purely on sales (you don't work for GW, do you?) but you want all chapters (even marines that aren't chapters) to be the same? Space Wolves got Long Fangs - you don't want those too?
Third time, a little attention will teach you that chapters like space wolves have dirt cheap unit options and thus are not suffering as much from model/unit count.
Thus chapters like the GKs could imo balance that a little by offering a little leeway in slot competition by taking LRs as dedicated transports.
Sooooo. . what you're saying is that you'd like the GK's to be like the other chapters. . .like I inferred? You don't want GK's to have any diversity? How many games have you playtested the new codex with? I'm just curious what you base your case of balance on. You realize that the low model count, elite army is what they've been touted as, right?
It's okay, I get it. Just make them like other chapters, but keep all the good stuff! You don't want to learn how to work around not having dedicated land raiders because. . .it's hard. . .and it makes you have to go poopy.
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Post by: Therion
ph34r wrote:Magister187 wrote:ph34r wrote:Therion wrote:I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but apparently even if you take Coteaz, you still need Grey Knight troops to fulfill the FO requirements. :(
This would be awful news. The troops choice GK just aren't very good.
Coteaz does not remove the fact that selecting a Henchmen unit counts as a selection, thus enabling it to fulfill mandatory selections. (please note: there is no mention of "slot" in the FOC rules or the henchmen rules)
rofl. Not this again...
It seems to be the consensus among people that have an understanding of the rules that henchmen do fulfill mandatory slots, in my experience across the various 40k forums.
That is to say, people who have actually read the rules, rather than assuming that there is a "slot" system that requires "filling".
You're correct. Thanks for pointing it out. Now, do you or does anyone else have any idea whether Chimeras have the psychic power fortitude or not? Additionally, any idea how the henchman acolytes and their meltaguns/flamers points costs and availabilities panned out? Psykers still LD8? A couple of 8 strong units of psykers shooting that S10 AP1 large blast through Chimera fire points would be awesome if it wasn't for that LD8.
Cheers.
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Post by: AvatarForm
Victoria Lamb already released some Spanish Inquisition sculpts that you can paint silver all by yourself...
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Post by: ph34r
Therion wrote:You're correct. Thanks for pointing it out. Now, do you or does anyone else have any idea whether Chimeras have the psychic power fortitude or not? Additionally, any idea how the henchman acolytes and their meltaguns/flamers points costs and availabilities panned out? Psykers still LD8? A couple of 8 strong units of psykers shooting that S10 AP1 large blast through Chimera fire points would be awesome if it wasn't for that LD8.
Cheers.
Unless I have been deliberately lied to, Chimeras definitely do not have fortitude.
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Post by: Pyriel-
On page 36, yes. But pictures have pervaded the entire thread. Quoting walls of text for a one-liner is never permitted and hardly ever funny. However, the mechanics of comedy sort of need the picture to be visible when you present your one-liner. Sort of like slapstick.
Wow, really that much time over?
Sooooo. . what you're saying is that you'd like the GK's to be like the other chapters. . .like I inferred? You don't want GK's to have any diversity? How many games have you playtested the new codex with? I'm just curious what you base your case of balance on.
Just playtested the leaked version. How bout you?
So having dedicated LR as transports makes the GKs into just another SM chapter, interesting and I think I´ll refrain from taking more advice on the differences of various SM chapters from you again.
It's okay, I get it. Just make them like other chapters, but keep all the good stuff! You don't want to learn how to work around not having dedicated land raiders because. . .it's hard. . .and it makes you have to go poopy.
Its actually amusing reading your incoherent assumptions. Keep raging.
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Post by: ph34r
Come on guys, less rage more photoshop.
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Post by: Soladrin
I have lost all faith in GW, good thing I switched over to warmahordes in time 
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Post by: Pyriel-
Unless I have been deliberately lied to, Chimeras definitely do not have fortitude.
Same thing I´we heard. Only GK piloted vehicles get fortitude so it seems.
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Post by: puma713
Pyriel- wrote:Just playtested the leaked version. How bout you?
So, you're basing your notion of GK balance on an unofficial codex, with no wargear descriptions (other than rumors) with no sort of timeframe of its release date. . .
Pyriel- wrote: I think I´ll refrain from taking more advice on the differences of various SM chapters from you again.
Indeed ^^
Pyriel- wrote:Its actually amusing reading your incoherent assumptions. Keep raging.
I know! I thought they were amusing too! 
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Post by: Pyriel-
So, you're basing your notion of GK balance on an unofficial codex, with no wargear descriptions (other than rumors) with no sort of timeframe of its release date. . .
Plus the fact that almost every unit in the codex differs significantly from their SM counterparts, that is if there even are SM counterparts.
Ergo: there are tons of different things, unique play styles and different rules/stats/wargear that having a dedicated LR option or not doesnt matter the slightest when it comes to your ridiculous claims that GKs are just another SM army or even better, that I want them to be just another SM army and/or be only the best.
In all probability you will still not get it since I am not providing you with a big, nice picture along with my explanation.
Again, how about you, hat do you base your "opinion" on that GKs should not get dedicated LR transports?
I´ll have to repeat myself obviously, your so called expertise on SM chapters vs GK armies similarities and differences are worth exactly jack to me so dont even bother trying to force feed what is basically your personal assumptions regarding what I want and dont want the GK codex to become.
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Post by: ph34r
Also, not sure if anyone has heard these bits yet, but:
rad grenades do -1 toughness to enemy
the -1 toughness psychic power supposedly is removed
servo skulls are kinda like the space wolf "chooser or the slain" or whatever
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Post by: Pyriel-
ph34r wrote:Also, not sure if anyone has heard these bits yet, but:
rad grenades do -1 toughness to enemy
the -1 toughness psychic power supposedly is removed
servo skulls are kinda like the space wolf "chooser or the slain" or whatever
Hmm, I can swear I heard somewhere that rad grenades do something else, dont remember what but it wasnt a -1T and that skulls were some sort of locator beacon analogues.
I´m most certainly wrong on these things (and I hope I am too).
Werent those psychostroke nades supposed to be some sort of D6 mind-poison thingies affecting enemy Cc units?
Wonder if all squads can get those in the end or only HQs.
Its really exciting waiting and guessing what all those wargear might turn out to be.
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Post by: AvatarForm
puma713 wrote:Pyriel- wrote:Just playtested the leaked version. How bout you?
So, you're basing your notion of GK balance on an unofficial codex, with no wargear descriptions (other than rumors) with no sort of timeframe of its release date. . .
Actually, the leaked 'dex looks almost identical to the one that I have in my hands right now...
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Post by: ph34r
Pyriel- wrote:ph34r wrote:Also, not sure if anyone has heard these bits yet, but:
rad grenades do -1 toughness to enemy
the -1 toughness psychic power supposedly is removed
servo skulls are kinda like the space wolf "chooser or the slain" or whatever
Hmm, I can swear I heard somewhere that rad grenades do something else, dont remember what but it wasnt a -1T and that skulls were some sort of locator beacon analogues.
I´m most certainly wrong on these things (and I hope I am too).
Werent those psychostroke nades supposed to be some sort of D6 mind-poison thingies affecting enemy Cc units?
Wonder if all squads can get those in the end or only HQs.
Its really exciting waiting and guessing what all those wargear might turn out to be.
I heard that the skulls effected enemy infiltration and made your blasts near them more accurate. I could be misremembering rad grenades. Automatically Appended Next Post: AvatarForm wrote:puma713 wrote:Pyriel- wrote:Just playtested the leaked version. How bout you?
So, you're basing your notion of GK balance on an unofficial codex, with no wargear descriptions (other than rumors) with no sort of timeframe of its release date. . .
Actually, the leaked 'dex looks almost identical to the one that I have in my hands right now...
If you are indeed holding said codex, could you please put to rest the "Coteaz and Friends" debacle? Has Coteaz or the Henchmen's rules regarding FOC changed at all since playtest?
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Post by: Pyriel-
AvatarForm wrote:puma713 wrote:Pyriel- wrote:Just playtested the leaked version. How bout you?
So, you're basing your notion of GK balance on an unofficial codex, with no wargear descriptions (other than rumors) with no sort of timeframe of its release date. . .
Actually, the leaked 'dex looks almost identical to the one that I have in my hands right now...
Oh crap!
I really didnt like a lot of the things in it.
But then again that is because I had/have some pretty strong pre decided ideas and ideals of how and what kind of play style I "would" like to go with my GK army. Turns out its not doable and my view on the fluff just took a major hit.
On a positive note it´s going to be damn exciting and fun to try out all kinds of other play styles with this codex. Lets just hope the final version will indeed allow for a wide variety of competitive builds and not just one or two.
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Post by: FreakForge
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Post by: SagesStone
Fixed it. 
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Post by: bhsman
So by 'pretty soundly shot down' you mean 'take everything I saw at face value'. Consistent within the fluff? You know how the Emperor wouldn't even go into the Warp itself, not just the Eye of Terror? Sorry man but you come off as highly defensive about all this.
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Post by: jcd386
Not sure is any of this has been said yet, but i can confirm some things from the new book (just got home from the GW store):
Dreadknight is s6 t6. all point values in the leak are correct, but they have a hammer hand and a psychic power that nullifies any daemonic gifts during the assault phase instead of Holocaust. I think it's called dark communion or something. i forget.
Psycannons are 24", s7 rending assault 2 heavy 4.
Warp stabilization fields allow librarians to teleport vehicles with their summoning spell.
the strike squads can't take the teleporter things, but there is a separate FA choice that comes with them.
servo skulls are counters placed on the board anywhere outside of the enemy's deployment, and create a 12" ring where the enemy cannot DS. Your blast templates and Deepstrikes also within 12" scatter 1D6 less. they are destroyed if the enemy gets within 6" of them.
Nemisis Deamon hammers are thunderhammers + nemisis rules.
Nemsis rules are: they are force weapons, and you only roll one LD test for the whole squad as soon as the first unsaved wound is caused. So, you wounds with a sword, take the test, and then any hammer attacks at a lower I have to abide by that result.
Any psykers or deamons that take an unsaved wound with a nemisis weather it goes off or not have to take a LD test or be removed.
Null rods make that unit immune to both friendly and enemy psychic powers.
The dreadknight's greatsword rerolls hits, wounds and armor pens.
the heavy inncinorator has a 12+template range.
The deamonblade has weird powers. roll 2d6 twice at the start of the game and pick 2 powers off a table. things like:
+3 attacks
+3 Str
every unsaved wounds grants the character a free wound to a max of 10
fearless and FNP
Furious charge and...eternal warrior, i think.
attacks ignore armor saves.
there are about 10 different options, i don't remember the others.
Psychotroke grenades have a similar table, but its 1d6 and you roll per assault, i think, and they do weird stuff like cause enemy units to get 1 attack per model, diriect attacks against itself, and i don't remember what else. Pretty crazy stuff.
Scythian venom talons are poisoned (2+). Not sure if they are PWs or not. i dont think they are.
Truesilver armor caused a s6 hit to any deamon or psyker that attacks the vehicle (it might be 1 S6 hit per successful hit, but idk)
Brotherhood standard is not a power weapon (so that model loses the nemisis attacks as far as i know), but grants all models +1 attack, and causes their force weapons to always make their LD test.
Psy ammo and psyflame raise str by 1 on their respective weapons.
Plasma siphon thing (an inquisitor can take it) causes all plasma weapons within 12" to fire as BS1.
Thats all i can remember...i'll check back later if anyone has questions about anything that i might have seen but forgot here.
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Post by: bhsman
Aside from making Stormbolters and Autocannons better, psybolt seems like a good (though somewhat lazy) way of justifying Dreadnought and Razorback-mounted Psycannons.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Why defend Ward's bad author-self-insertion-fantasy fan-fiction so much?
And 'shot down'... please...
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Post by: Amaya
I just want to know what the official paladin rules are. Shipment to my LGS needs to HURRY UP!
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Post by: AlexHolker
jcd386 wrote:Psycannons are 24", s7 rending assault 2 heavy 4.
Thanks for that, I was almost interested in starting a GK army for a moment there.
When did Australia get an Olympic Daemonslaying team?
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Post by: sourclams
jcd386 wrote:
servo skulls are counters placed on the board anywhere outside of the enemy's deployment, and create a 12" ring where the enemy cannot DS. Your blast templates and Deepstrikes also within 12" scatter 1D6 less. they are destroyed if the enemy gets within 6" of them.
What??
My. God.
Am I crazy to think that this is absolutely insane? Unless it is ridiculously expensive wargear, or incredibly hard to access via expensive HQ unlock, and they are very limited (as in... one. And that's it. One.), can GK buy generic wargear that can shut down entire army playstyles?
Death from Above style armies or units, like Drop Pod Assault, BA, Termicide, or, obviously, the entire C aemons lineup do not work! Reserves has always been an easy and common defense, but with the disadvantage that now your army trickles on piecemeal and often loses out on heavy weapon use the turn they show up. If GK just create blanket no-fly zones that remain in play until you get a model next to them, dropping you safely out of melta or rapid fire range, what's the point in even trying to DS on?
At least Warp Quake was only available on GKSTs and they had to go first, to actually cast the power.
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Post by: Gornall
AlexHolker wrote:jcd386 wrote:Psycannons are 24", s7 rending assault 2 heavy 4.
Thanks for that, I was almost interested in starting a GK army for a moment there.
Ditto.
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Post by: AgeOfEgos
jcd386 wrote:
servo skulls are counters placed on the board anywhere outside of the enemy's deployment, and create a 12" ring where the enemy cannot DS. Your blast templates and Deepstrikes also within 12" scatter 1D6 less. they are destroyed if the enemy gets within 6" of them.
lol, imagine if they had kept the allies rule in. So...this is my inquisitor with 10 servo skulls....he's assisting my gun line guard....
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Post by: Therion
So I take it that in addition to the 24" range on psycannons, a meagre 5+ invulnerable save was confirmed for the Dreadknight? It's funny that basically everything else except the Henchmen turned out to be non-competitive or worse than in the leaked dex. So where did I put my Cadian models and those 25 Razorbacks again... Grey Knight armies without a single Grey Knight in them, taking over. Just the way I imagined Grey Knights to turn out.
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Post by: Lord Scythican
ph34r wrote:Come on guys, less rage more photoshop.
I think I am finally done. It is someone else's turn... going to sleep. 
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Post by: ph34r
Therion wrote:So I take it that in addition to the 24" range on psycannons, a meagre 5+ invulnerable save was confirmed for the Dreadknight? It's funny that basically everything else except the Henchmen turned out to be non-competitive or worse than in the leaked dex. So where did I put my Cadian models and those 25 Razorbacks again... Grey Knight armies without a single Grey Knight in them, taking over. Just the way I imagined Grey Knights to turn out.
Yep. Though purifier squads running around with 4 glorifies assault cannons sounds good in theory, you need the worst character (and not even an IC) in existence to make them troops. Terminators rock in close combat, but they still lose out to hammernators+feth-you-area librarian, and paladins super lose out to said hammernators.
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Post by: Fafnir
A lot of things lose out to TH/SS terminators and null zone. But GKT and GKP will end up being much more versatile than TH/SS termies (you know, with the whole scoring/being able to be taken as troops thing, the ability to shoot, striking at initiative, etc.), and the fact that they can be equipped to absolutely wreck TH/SS termies if you really want them too, while still being largely effective against most other threats too.
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Post by: puma713
Pyriel-, I probably owe you an apology. Guess it was a stressful day or something and I lashed out unnecessarily. Or maybe it was my Mat Ward hate that got somehow focused on you. Anyway, sorry about the out-of-nowhere rage.
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Post by: bhsman
ph34r wrote:Yep. Though purifier squads running around with 4 glorifies assault cannons sounds good in theory, you need the worst character (and not even an IC) in existence to make them troops. Terminators rock in close combat, but they still lose out to hammernators+feth-you-area librarian, and paladins super lose out to said hammernators.
If not for the fact that he wasn't an IC, he's actually pretty good. But, hey, Mat Ward. =/
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Post by: Target
Gornall wrote:AlexHolker wrote:jcd386 wrote:Psycannons are 24", s7 rending assault 2 heavy 4.
Thanks for that, I was almost interested in starting a GK army for a moment there.
Ditto.
Put me in for another ditto.
It's amazing how 12 inches can take a gun from being amazing to being mediocre. Competing against long range weaponry, it's profile is excellent. Competing in the 24 inches and less category, it's mediocre as a tank buster when what you need to be using are meltaguns if you're that close.
I'll try to reserve my final call on whether I'll do GK's, especially given the time and money I've already put into them, planning on them being my next project and all. But at this point, I've went from incredibly excited to not seeing how they're good enough to usurp IG as my GT army.
Oh GW...some days..
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Dumb question:
Do Psycannons/Incinerators still ignore invulnerable saves? What about the Psilencer?
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Post by: bhsman
No, and not sure.
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Post by: Target
I believe earlier in this thread there was a veritable "I hate Matt Ward" fan club forming.
I would now like to inquire about membership.
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Post by: Gornall
So... how do GKs deal with mech beyond 24"? Just trudge their low-model count army through a hail of gunfire?
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Post by: Target
Gornall wrote:So... how do GKs deal with mech beyond 24"? Just trudge their low-model count army through a hail of gunfire?
By responding with the words "nemesis" and "doom" repeatedly and interchangably whenever your opponent asks about one of your models. It's the fast track to insanity.
Mech beyond 24 inches...well my friend, you spam space monkeys. Space monkeys with lascannons. And 20 transports.
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Post by: Amaya
They have Lascannons too...rending 60" range Lascannons.
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Post by: derek
targetawg wrote:I believe earlier in this thread there was a veritable "I hate Matt Ward" fan club forming.
I would now like to inquire about membership.
Great! Dues are to be sent to me, and must be paid in Draigo models. You must also not be a resident of Wisconsin since we wish to retain our collective bargaining rights.
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Post by: bhsman
targetawg wrote:I believe earlier in this thread there was a veritable "I hate Matt Ward" fan club forming.
I would now like to inquire about membership.
Membership is open to everyone, but feel free to send me any dues. 
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
bhsman & ph34r wrote:No... Nope
Wha... *jaw drops*
Then what do they do? What does an Incinerator do now if it doesn't ignore the saves on Daemons?
I mean... if they don't ignore Invuls... then... what's the point?
Mat Ward!!!!!!!!!!!!!  x 1000
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Post by: Gornall
Amaya wrote:They have Lascannons too...rending 60" range Lascannons.
From the space monkeys, right?
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Post by: Amaya
Gornall wrote:Amaya wrote:They have Lascannons too...rending 60" range Lascannons.
From the space monkeys, right?
Yar.
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Post by: Holycrusader27
Gornall wrote:So... how do GKs deal with mech beyond 24"? Just trudge their low-model count army through a hail of gunfire?
That or you pay for vechicles with las/ MM, rifle dreads or dreadknight smash. Anyone who has seen the codex notice if GK HQs can swap TDA for articfier armour?
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Did anyone think that, a year ago, when asked how the new GK's would deal with tanks, the answer would be "Space Monkeys with 60" range Rending Lascannons!".
Oh God what is happening to 40K...
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Post by: dienekes96
No major comment on the Dreadknight. With the exception of the baby bjorn on the front, I think the design is actually solid. If the pilot was inside, I'd probably really like the kit. The details are quite good. But as an exo-skeleton mech, it looks weird with a fat terminator hanging on the front.
I looked at a set of completed Terminators today, and I really, really like the kit. The posing could be better, but the wealth of options are good. I love the helmets and the two bare heads.
Speaking of...are there any good pics of both sides of the TAGK sprues anywhere? I know GW has their images, but only one side.
As for the army...GK just don't feel right as a full-fledged army. As a single unit of Terminators, they make sense. So I'll build that.
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Post by: AgeOfEgos
So...everyone is hating on a Str. 7 Heavy 4 Rending gun that can be taken 2 at a time....in a 5 man, 2 wound Terminator unit....and it costs less than an Auto-Cannon? Hmm.
300ish points will allow you to put out 8 Str. 7 Rending shots a turn (I'm ignoring the other storm bolter shots). Take Super Man and they're troops. Take 4 squads of them----that's 32 Str. 7 Rending shots a turn....spread over 20 models with 2+ saves and 2 wounds each...all scoring.....for 1200-1300ish points. Sounds like fun to me.
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Post by: AvatarForm
H.B.M.C. wrote:Did anyone think that, a year ago, when asked how the new GK's would deal with tanks, the answer would be "Space Monkeys with 60" range Rending Lascannons!".
Oh God what is happening to 40K...
Well, I certainly did not believe it would spawn a 40+ page (ok first 12 were assumption) thread that could be summarised by photoshops... while those with rules queries were ignored or could have simply read a copy of the Codex, as its out already.
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Post by: Destrado
I tried getting a whole lotta drunk but those models are still ugly. Big heads just don't work, and the Joker is just ridiculous.
Sorry, hadda get it out. Killed any chances of collecting GK, tough buying a box of PAGK to make a librarian is still an option.
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Post by: spyguyyoda
I believe that the psycannons push a squad of paladins about 50-60 pts higher than you're thinking, which would put four squads and super man over the 1500 pt range. Also, if you're thinking of the super man I am, he can only make d3 units scoring, and not make them troop choices. But a regular GM also has that special rule.
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Post by: AvatarForm
For those who do not like the JOKE-aero:
By Reaper...
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Post by: AgeOfEgos
spyguyyoda wrote:I believe that the psycannons push a squad of paladins about 50-60 pts higher than you're thinking, which would put four squads and super man over the 1500 pt range. Also, if you're thinking of the super man I am, he can only make d3 units scoring, and not make them troop choices. But a regular GM also has that special rule.
I forgot Super Man's cost! So 1400-1500 pts for that army.
Super Man makes Paladins Troop choices----so you use Grand Strategy to make a couple of DreadKnights w/ Teleporters scouting to finish off your 2k (with change I think).
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Post by: Target
AgeOfEgos wrote:So...everyone is hating on a Str. 7 Heavy 4 Rending gun that can be taken 2 at a time....in a 5 man, 2 wound Terminator unit....and it costs less than an Auto-Cannon? Hmm.
300ish points will allow you to put out 8 Str. 7 Rending shots a turn (I'm ignoring the other storm bolter shots). Take Super Man and they're troops. Take 4 squads of them----that's 32 Str. 7 Rending shots a turn....spread over 20 models with 2+ saves and 2 wounds each...all scoring.....for 1200-1300ish points. Sounds like fun to me.
Because these aren't autocannons, they only fire 24 inches.
Your paladin example (going on leaked pdf points that apparently havent changed): is a bit over 300 for 5 guys, with 2 psycannons.
4 Squads is 1300 points. The guy that unlocks this is plenty, you're now just shy of 1600 points. (Keeping individual points out of this)
You have 26 models, including 8 of these 24 inch guns. That's your only anti tank. And you're on foot. And you're T4 and get instakilled. And you just have a basic 5++, only upgraded in combat. You die horribly to hammer terminators who are a commonly field unit, you die horribly to lascannons and meltas as well, neither of which are uncommon.
I'll take space monkey before I take paladin spam.
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Post by: SweetLou
jokero suck
t3 with no save.........bs3? they are the epitome of awesome for 35 points
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Post by: Target
AgeOfEgos wrote:spyguyyoda wrote:I believe that the psycannons push a squad of paladins about 50-60 pts higher than you're thinking, which would put four squads and super man over the 1500 pt range. Also, if you're thinking of the super man I am, he can only make d3 units scoring, and not make them troop choices. But a regular GM also has that special rule.
I forgot Super Man's cost! So 1400-1500 pts for that army.
Super Man makes Paladins Troop choices----so you use Grand Strategy to make a couple of DreadKnights w/ Teleporters scouting to finish off your 2k (with change I think).
2 of the scouting DK's leaves you with 10-15 points change at 2000, yep.
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Post by: AgeOfEgos
targetawg wrote:AgeOfEgos wrote:So...everyone is hating on a Str. 7 Heavy 4 Rending gun that can be taken 2 at a time....in a 5 man, 2 wound Terminator unit....and it costs less than an Auto-Cannon? Hmm.
300ish points will allow you to put out 8 Str. 7 Rending shots a turn (I'm ignoring the other storm bolter shots). Take Super Man and they're troops. Take 4 squads of them----that's 32 Str. 7 Rending shots a turn....spread over 20 models with 2+ saves and 2 wounds each...all scoring.....for 1200-1300ish points. Sounds like fun to me.
Because these aren't autocannons, they only fire 24 inches.
Your paladin example (going on leaked pdf points that apparently havent changed): is a bit over 300 for 5 guys, with 2 psycannons.
4 Squads is 1300 points. The guy that unlocks this is plenty, you're now just shy of 1600 points. (Keeping individual points out of this)
You have 26 models, including 8 of these 24 inch guns. That's your only anti tank. And you're on foot. And you're T4 and get instakilled. And you just have a basic 5++, only upgraded in combat. You die horribly to hammer terminators who are a commonly field unit, you die horribly to lascannons and meltas as well, neither of which are uncommon.
I'll take space monkey before I take paladin spam.
Well, I agree that Razorspam (If it's possible depending on how they view wording) is more competitive. I don't quite agree with the fragility of those 26 models though----they all have 2 wounds each and I find ML to more common than Las cannons (outside of Vendetta spam). Melta would be a concern----but as I stated initially-----it sounds like fun~
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Post by: Gornall
Is GK seriously looking like another Razorspam army?
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Post by: Target
Gornall wrote:Is GK seriously looking like another Razorspam army?
But with monkeys inside!
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Post by: AlexHolker
Could someone please confirm or deny this claim from Bolter and Chainsword:
Justcar wrote:The topic seems to be dormant, so i'll (against my better judgement) through in a tidbit that you should all hate!
In the new Dex
GKs kill sisters of battle to use their innocent blood to make a talisman that would protect them from the bloodtide.
Let the screaming begin!
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Post by: bhsman
^^^I...I literally don't know what to say to that.
Gornall wrote:So... how do GKs deal with mech beyond 24"? Just trudge their low-model count army through a hail of gunfire?
Dreadnoughts with 2xTL Autocannons and Psybolt ammunition aka Heavy Psycannons (not the Psy-launcher or whatever the DK has); 4 S8 shots at BS4 with rerolls on a mobile firing platform.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
JGrand wrote:In all seriousness, I found this linked image. Can anyone confirm if this is the Jokearo?
Finally, anyone who has seen the codex care to share some wargear or differences from the pdf? I don't mean to be a jerk and divert the conversation from bashing the Dread Knight with the same four jokes over and over again...
SIgh...
Very bad.
I'll be making tech priest jawas out of skaven plague monks.
And I'll replace the silly terminator on the DK with... A HUGE SKULL!
Because everything is better with skulls.
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Post by: ph34r
Gornall wrote:Is GK seriously looking like another Razorspam army?
Greyzorspam
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Post by: AvatarForm
Kid_Kyoto wrote:JGrand wrote:In all seriousness, I found this linked image. Can anyone confirm if this is the Jokearo?
Finally, anyone who has seen the codex care to share some wargear or differences from the pdf? I don't mean to be a jerk and divert the conversation from bashing the Dread Knight with the same four jokes over and over again...
SIgh...
Very bad.
I'll be making tech priest jawas out of skaven plague monks.
And I'll replace the silly terminator on the DK with... A HUGE SKULL!
Because everything is better with skulls.
KK where have you been? You always add your own flavour of comedy to these threads.
AlexHolker wrote:Could someone please confirm or deny this claim from Bolter and Chainsword:
Justcar wrote:The topic seems to be dormant, so i'll (against my better judgement) through in a tidbit that you should all hate!
In the new Dex
GKs kill sisters of battle to use their innocent blood to make a talisman that would protect them from the bloodtide.
Let the screaming begin!
Got a page number?
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
AvatarForm wrote:
KK where have you been? You always add your own flavour of comedy to these threads.
I'm really irked by this codex, DH were my favorite army and well now... Half my units are unusable and to replace them we got Superion, the Chibihawk and some dude who carves his name in Daemon Primarch hearts.
I'm just... irked. Irked and already bored with this codex.
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Post by: AlexHolker
AvatarForm wrote:Got a page number?
No, I don't. I don't even know if the passage exists.
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Post by: Kirasu
Should just save us time and simply release Codex: Razorbacks
Then we wouldnt have to go through this everytime a marine codex is released
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Post by: puma713
Kirasu wrote:Should just save us time and simply release Codex: Razorbacks
Then we wouldnt have to go through this everytime a marine codex is released
CODEX: RAZORBACKS
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Post by: Target
Kirasu wrote:Should just save us time and simply release Codex: Razorbacks
Then we wouldnt have to go through this everytime a marine codex is released
I lol'd with a whimper. Because it's true. Automatically Appended Next Post: puma713 wrote:Kirasu wrote:Should just save us time and simply release Codex: Razorbacks
Then we wouldnt have to go through this everytime a marine codex is released
CODEX: RAZORBACKS
I like it better than the dreadknight.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Kid_Kyoto wrote:I'm just... irked. Irked and already bored with this codex.
Careful! Someone's gonna label a hater and then you won't be able to discuss this at all!
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Post by: Fafnir
On one hand, I'm in love with Paladins, they're everything I want out of a Grey Knight unit. I like the customizeability of the retinue squads, and the Inquisitors look like fun little characters.
On the other, everything else is kind of... I'd rather not talk about it.
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Post by: Ehsteve
While I am not a fan of the fluff change (Draigo "I am a monster truck who walks like a man!") I do however see some fun possiblities with the codex mechanics. I prefer the options given by the NFW over the old edition which was simply +2 strength because this means I can now charge a unit and be Initiative 6 and through cover now. Sure against Orks it doesn't [i]really[/]i matter against a 6+ armour save, and you are losing out on an attack with the death of True Grit, but should you get the charge, you will decimate their ranks (even before psychic powers).
Not such a big fan of the Nemesis Force Falchions, just because they look so awkwardly positioned, but seem like an interesting option nonetheless (as Nemesis Force Swords grant no tangible benefit over the halberd or falchions).
I'm not falling head over heels for this codex, mainly because of the sheer stupidity in regards to fluff (jokaero I'm not too fussed about, their fluff to me makes some deal of sense, though how they managed to tame/keep them on the battlefield when they so loathe prolonged captivity is a question that pops to mind every time). However, I am not dismissing it at first glance, while I was disappointed to see no Storm Shields, I find the options refreshing compared to my old pure GK list.
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Post by: ph34r
The swords give +1 to invuln saves in cc. This means terminators go to 4+, and PAGK get nothing. This is why there is a cost to upgrade from them for PAGK, and not for TAGK.
Falchions seem pretty good. I wonder if they grant a bonus attack for 2 weapons?
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Post by: bhsman
I'm seeing falchions as a near-mandatory upgrade for Strike Squads to help out with their number of attacks, or maybe Halberds when sitting on an objective to discourage an assault. Interceptor squads look like top-shelf jump infantry harassment squads who are outdone only by Warp Spiders in terms of sheer maneuverability, but that shunt power will probably make the difference in a lot of games, especially if a Grandmaster makes them scoring.
There's a lot of stuff about this book I don't like, but it's not as bad as with Blood Angels (making the Death Company kit full of bits $33 bucks sucked, at least with PAGK the models are actually useful AND expensive points-wise); there's some honestly fun options here.
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Post by: Amaya
SweetLou wrote:jokero suck
t3 with no save.........bs3? they are the epitome of awesome for 35 points
They have a 5+ invul, can upgrade all the squads weapons, can give the entire squad an invul....
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Post by: puma713
bhsman wrote:Interceptor squads look like top-shelf jump infantry harassment squads who are outdone only by Warp Spiders in terms of sheer maneuverability
From what I've gathered, Interceptor Squads are only jump infantry in the definitive sense, but they do not move like jump infantry. Only that they have a once-a-game shunt move.
I could be wrong, though.
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Post by: bhsman
True, might just be a holdover from the playtest. Even then, they could make a decent fire support unit before shunting away on turn 5. Also depends on how many attacks they'll have.
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Post by: ChildofChaos
this sums up my feelings on the dreadknight
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Post by: AvatarForm
ChildofChaos wrote:this sums up my feelings on the dreadknight
Good idea, poor execution.
Also, "Tactical Dreadnaught Armour" sounds better...
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Post by: bhsman
Some details on the new codex from HERO's blog:
http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2011/03/i-have-seen-it.html
Nemesis Force Weapons
Brotherhood of Psykers for Nemesis Force Weapon states that you take 1 psychic test for all models with a NFW. If you pass, ALL wounds caused by the unit count as Instant Death. Originally it was thought that you only get to blow up 1 guy, but now you can blow up an entire unit of Nob Bikers.
HQ Choices
The Grand Master is a solid buy because of the amount of weapon options you can give him. If you keep the default Force Sword he gets a 3++ invul in close combat. I'll get to other wargear options below, but because the GM has Grand Strategy and the Brother Captain doesn't, you will almost never take him. Draigo is a powerful choice and solid buy, but I wouldn't call him very cost effective. Crowe should only be taken if you want a lot of Purifiers, otherwise he's absolutely garbage. He's not an IC and enemy units charging him gets Furious Charge. If I take him, he'll be walking on every game through reserve.
Mordrak
This guy gets his own section because he's a Grand Master that costs 200 and can make any unit he join DS in on 1st turn without scatter. Not only that but he comes with Grand Strategy so you can apply all kinds of shenanigans. Mordrak no longer has to take Ghost Knights with him (they suck now, 40ppm and no Psycannon options) which means he can apply his First to the Fray to any unit he joins. Paladins anyone?
Strike Squads
Good buy overall. I can definitely see 10 of these guys with 2 Psycannons and a Rhino as the staple. Front-runners can take Incinerators, but Psycannons would be my weapon of choice.
Purifiers Squads
As predicted, these guys are the stars of the book. Ld.9, 2 attacks each with 2pt Halberds and Cleansing Flame is just amazing. They can also take 2 Psycannons for every 5 and you can take 10 dudes. That means you can take a full squad of 10 with 4 Psycannons and Halberds, combat squad them so you have 1 squad of better Purgation dudes that can actually defend themselves and the other squad can go hang out in a Razorback or something. Crowe can make these guys troops which is great.
Interceptor Squads
These are just Strike Squads w/ teletubby spikes and therefore they turn into Fast Attack. They're good as last minute contending units that can shunt 30" once per game, so they're good as long as you have a Grand Master that can make them scoring.
Purgation Squads
Good buy as always. Free Incinerators on 4 guys or Psycannons for 20ppm. Equip with a Razorback and you're good to go. I would personally always go for the aggressive Incinerator option but that's just me. That comes out to 145 with the RB.
Paladin Squads
You pay for every cent you put these guys in. Underneath that big bad internet hype lies a 2W Termie with a 5++ invulnerable save. The +75 point Apothecary UPGRADE also weighs this unit down in terms of price. Watch out for Demolishers and Vindicators..
Dreadknight
It's a good buy and effective unit. WS5, S6, T6, I4, 4W, 3 attacks, 2+/5++ and a lot of weapon options. The price of 130 is extremely cheap for what it does but if you want to upgrade it with the ability to teleport, be ready to pay 75 points for it. Personally, I'm not going to be picking any of these up because I have this little thing called aesthetic preference.
Rad Grenades
-1 Toughness to anything in assault with the bearer of these grenades. Yes, they do effect the Instant Death threshold. Yes, this does mean that your S10 Daemonhammer auto-rapes T5 Trygons. These little buggers change the outcome of every assault, and that's why they cost 15 points to equip on very select HQs (like Grand Masters).
Psybolt Ammo
+1S to Bolters, Heavy Bolters, Storm Bolters, Hurricane Bolters, Auto-cannons and Assault Cannons. Use these to turn your Assault Cannons into Psycannons or your Riflemen Dreads into objects of extreme fear.
He also confirmed on Bolter and Chainsword that Interceptors DO move as Jump Infantry, so that's good.
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Post by: jcd386
As far as i know the falcons give you 1 extra attack for using them. not 1 for using them plus 1 for having 2 of them. Either way i'm not really sure they are worth using...at 10 points for 1 extra attack, i might just buy another PAGK for 20 points, gaining 1 more attack and another body. Purifier squads might make some use of them for only 5 points, but even then i'd probably just take a deamon hammer...
As for people complaining about anti tank, even without using the las-monkeys, the availability of las/plas razorbacks, rending s7, 15 point meltaguns, mass s5 bolter fire, stormraven guns, dreadknight greatswords (s6/7 with hammerhand with rerolls to hit, wound and pen), and 10 point thunderhammers, I'm pretty sure they will be ok.
Rhinos and chimeras should die to mass psycannon fire (most lists I've been thinking about end up having about 20, meaning 40-80 shots a turn), and AV13 will at least kept from firing most of the time.
Av 14 will obviously be annoying, but can be taken care of. Monoliths can be ignored, russes have side armor + die in close combat, and raiders will either be ignored until you can close combat them with Dreadknights, or destroyed with lasplas razorbacks or suicidal inquisitor meltaguns...meaning they handle them the same way that other armies do.
Think about what most competitive armies bring...raiders, rhinos, razorbacks, and chimeras full of small groups of infantry...all of those things die to s7 rending and power weapons.
I personally see GKs as a sort of a mix of defensive and offensive army, moving into 24" range of the enemy and shooting them to death, taunting them to get into assault. If you assault them you have to deal with mass (possibly S5) nemisis weapons, but if you don't you'll have to deal with stormbolters and psycannons...hmm...what to do?
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Post by: ph34r
How do you plan to assault or melta gun raiders, again? Curious.
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Post by: Amaya
ph34r wrote:How do you plan to assault or melta gun raiders, again? Curious.
If you can't get within 24" of a Raider you're doing something wrong.
What do GKs have to reduce DS scatter?
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Post by: bhsman
Servo Skulls apparently reduce the scatter of DS'ing units by 1d6, and the Stormraven lets them get out without Scattering as well.
There's still the Riflemen Dreads to help take care of the Raiders.
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Post by: Amaya
Yeah, but unless I'm missing something you can't put Terminators in Stormravens.
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Post by: ph34r
Amaya wrote:ph34r wrote:How do you plan to assault or melta gun raiders, again? Curious.
If you can't get within 24" of a Raider you're doing something wrong.
What do GKs have to reduce DS scatter?
Melta guns and assaults have 24" range? WHERE DO I FIND THESE THINGS
(also l o l, nightshields)
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Post by: Amaya
ph34r wrote:Amaya wrote:ph34r wrote:How do you plan to assault or melta gun raiders, again? Curious.
If you can't get within 24" of a Raider you're doing something wrong.
What do GKs have to reduce DS scatter?
Melta guns and assaults have 24" range? WHERE DO I FIND THESE THINGS
Pyscannons derp derp
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Post by: Fafnir
Nemesis Force Weapons
Brotherhood of Psykers for Nemesis Force Weapon states that you take 1 psychic test for all models with a NFW. If you pass, ALL wounds caused by the unit count as Instant Death. Originally it was thought that you only get to blow up 1 guy, but now you can blow up an entire unit of Nob Bikers.
Jesus fething Christ.
HQ Choices
The Grand Master is a solid buy because of the amount of weapon options you can give him. If you keep the default Force Sword he gets a 3++ invul in close combat. I'll get to other wargear options below, but because the GM has Grand Strategy and the Brother Captain doesn't, you will almost never take him. Draigo is a powerful choice and solid buy, but I wouldn't call him very cost effective. Crowe should only be taken if you want a lot of Purifiers, otherwise he's absolutely garbage. He's not an IC and enemy units charging him gets Furious Charge. If I take him, he'll be walking on every game through reserve.
The sword granting a 3++ just made the Grand Master worth it. Knowing that and the fact that he gets Rad Grenades would be enough for me to take him over Draigo.
Mordrak
This guy gets his own section because he's a Grand Master that costs 200 and can make any unit he join DS in on 1st turn without scatter. Not only that but he comes with Grand Strategy so you can apply all kinds of shenanigans. Mordrak no longer has to take Ghost Knights with him (they suck now, 40ppm and no Psycannon options) which means he can apply his First to the Fray to any unit he joins. Paladins anyone?
Mordrak's deep-strike shenanigans sound pretty amazing, but it'd be a tough pick between that and rad grenades...
Purifiers Squads
As predicted, these guys are the stars of the book. Ld.9, 2 attacks each with 2pt Halberds and Cleansing Flame is just amazing. They can also take 2 Psycannons for every 5 and you can take 10 dudes. That means you can take a full squad of 10 with 4 Psycannons and Halberds, combat squad them so you have 1 squad of better Purgation dudes that can actually defend themselves and the other squad can go hang out in a Razorback or something. Crowe can make these guys troops which is great.
These guys sound really, really dirty. They'll probably be the best unit in the entire book. Shame I don't like PAGK very much.
Purgation Squads
Good buy as always. Free Incinerators on 4 guys or Psycannons for 20ppm. Equip with a Razorback and you're good to go. I would personally always go for the aggressive Incinerator option but that's just me. That comes out to 145 with the RB.
Wouldn't a Purifier Squad be a better choice if you combat squad it though?
Paladin Squads
You pay for every cent you put these guys in. Underneath that big bad internet hype lies a 2W Termie with a 5++ invulnerable save. The +75 point Apothecary UPGRADE also weighs this unit down in terms of price. Watch out for Demolishers and Vindicators..
Rad Grenades
-1 Toughness to anything in assault with the bearer of these grenades. Yes, they do effect the Instant Death threshold. Yes, this does mean that your S10 Daemonhammer auto-rapes T5 Trygons. These little buggers change the outcome of every assault, and that's why they cost 15 points to equip on very select HQs (like Grand Masters).
The instant death threshold doesn't seem to be that important with brotherhood of psykers to do the dirty work for you, but just the fact that you'll be wounding more often makes them worth it. Does this just affect models in base contact, or any unit in combat?
Psybolt Ammo
+1S to Bolters, Heavy Bolters, Storm Bolters, Hurricane Bolters, Auto-cannons and Assault Cannons. Use these to turn your Assault Cannons into Psycannons or your Riflemen Dreads into objects of extreme fear.
This'll be worth every point, methinks. But it does make psycannons feel more worthless than ever.
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Post by: ph34r
Amaya wrote:Pyscannons derp derp
Ah yeah, sorry you did derp. While I said the words "assault" and "melta gun", you read "psycannon". Close though!
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Post by: bhsman
Emperor and Malcador the Sigillite decided that the Imperium needs holy warriors just incase the Horus Heresy goes ill or all censored.gif gets messed up and needs fixing.
Malcador goes off and finds 12 dudes, 4 of which become the Inquisition and 8 of which are Space Marines, some from the traitor legions aka Garro + his dudes.
Malcador takes them to Titan and unveils Titan's SURPRISE! Fortress Monastery. It was shrouded by him all this time, no one knew..
He assigns the task for build the Grey Knights to Janus, the first Grand Master and gives him a hundred thousand initiates and then disappears.
Before he does, he shrouds the entire planet of Titan and Titan disappears from Saturn's orbit and takes a journey through the warp (ROFL)
Titan re-emerges during the 2nd founding with a thousand Grey Knights and starts kicking ass.
I vomited, regurgitated, ate it to do a double-take, confirmed what I read, and vomited again. Then I accidently flipped the book to Draigo's page and decided to leave.
Shoot Mat Ward into the sun. :(
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Post by: zipboom
Amaya wrote:Yeah, but unless I'm missing something you can't put Terminators in Stormravens.
According to the GW sales blurb you can fit 6 termies in the GK stormraven
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod1140039a
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Post by: Lax35
I don't know why everyone hates the Dreadknight, ITS A GOD DAMN GUNDAM.
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Post by: bhsman
This isn't Codex: Tau Empire.
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Post by: ph34r
Lax35 wrote:I don't know why everyone hates the Dreadknight, ITS A GOD DAMN GUNDAM.
Right, and are we playing Gundam 40,000 or Warhammer 40,000? I forget sometimes so please remind me! The answer will probably reveal to you why Gundams in this game is a terrible idea! :]
35923
Post by: Lax35
Dude, you can't hate on Gundams......
But seriously it was a joke, but I really don't hate it. I feel like it's the stormraven all over again. Everyone hates the way it looks at first and then when it becomes available to use it starts to grow on them.
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Post by: ph34r
Lax35 wrote:Dude, you can't hate on Gundams......
But seriously it was a joke, but I really don't hate it. I feel like it's the stormraven all over again. Everyone hates the way it looks at first and then when it becomes available to use it starts to grow on them.
I agree that some of the hate is probably undeserved. However it could have been a lot better. Time will tell how good it can be made to look.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
ph34r wrote:Ah yeah, sorry you did derp. While I said the words "assault" and "melta gun", you read "psycannon". Close though!
Ah Jesus... CONTEXT ph34r! Context! It was fairly obvious that Amaya was talking about Psycannons when he said ' if you can't get within 24"'. Must you be so insulting with everyone? Automatically Appended Next Post: bhsman wrote:Shoot Mat Ward into the sun. :(
What the feth did the sun ever do to you? 
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Post by: Amaya
H.B.M.C. wrote:ph34r wrote:Ah yeah, sorry you did derp. While I said the words "assault" and "melta gun", you read "psycannon". Close though!
Ah Jesus... CONTEXT ph34r! Context! It was fairly obvious that Amaya was talking about Psycannons when he said ' if you can't get within 24"'. Must you be so insulting with everyone?
Well, you gotta make up for lack of cleverness somehow...
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Post by: Deadshane1
There's still some really scary possibilities here.
You know those ML devs that are all the rage nowadays?
Rifleman dreads and Venerable dreads...max them out and you've got some units that are CHEAP compared to other stuff in the book.
SAFH Grey Knights
Some cheapo inquisitor
Ven Rifleman w/psybolts
Ven Rifleman w/psybolts
Ven Rifleman w/psybolts
Strike Squad with psycannon, plasmaback
Strike Squad with psycannon, plasmaback
Strike Squad with psycannon, Plasmaback
Strike Squad with psycannon, plasmaback
Strike Squad with psycannon, plasmaback
Rifleman w/psybolts
Rifleman w/psybolts
Rifleman w/psybolts
>2000pts
-NO melta's deepstriking closby thanx to Strike Squads
-24 Str 8 shots and 5 lascannons at 48" range (that's right, BA's with FnP are cute)
-add in plasma/stormbolters/psycannon shots at 24" range
-trudge past all that lead flying at you and you're rewarded with Hammerhand behind force weapons....
....oh yea, and combat tactics so you can be shot at again.
I see potential.
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Post by: Kingsley
I'm pretty sure GKs don't have combat tactics, and you can't use both Hammerhand and your force weapons in the same turn. While that list looks strong in some respects, I think it will have trouble with AV13/14 and with fast aggressive armies in general. It does play the shooting game rather well, though, and should easily take down Long Fang spam and the like.
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Post by: Deadshane1
Fetterkey wrote:I'm pretty sure GKs don't have combat tactics, and you can't use both Hammerhand and your force weapons in the same turn. While that list looks strong in some respects, I think it will have trouble with AV13/14 and with fast aggressive armies in general. It does play the shooting game rather well, though, and should easily take down Long Fang spam and the like.
Well, the leaked codex gave them combat tactics...noone has said otherwise yet, but they're pretty well known NOT to be fearless. We'll see.
....I noticed the hammerhand/Force weapon thing after posting. I meant in an either/or context....didnt come out that way when I posted it though.
AV 14 pretty well gets wasted between 5 lascannons and a potential 20 str 7 rending if it gets within 24" of your firebase. I.E., move close to me and lose your landraider.
At any rate, this list 'could' be a decent starting point for a truly competetive Grey Knight list. Maybe evolving into something a little more rounded after playtesting a good amount of games.....
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Post by: KOS
ph34r wrote:Lax35 wrote:I don't know why everyone hates the Dreadknight, ITS A GOD DAMN GUNDAM.
Right, and are we playing Gundam 40,000 or Warhammer 40,000? I forget sometimes so please remind me! The answer will probably reveal to you why Gundams in this game is a terrible idea! :]
Well now shoot me, but I'm going to use a Zaku II as a Titan. I have no will to spend 300 £ for a real one. I love them, but I love my money more.
For what regards the Grey Knights, I'm willing to wait some pictures of people who actually bought the models as it was for the Stormraven. In the first photos it was horrible, then a little more decent looking the real thing.
:\
I am just wondering what they are going to propose as new rules and models for the next Space Marines codex.
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Post by: Bryce-2-Good87
Sorry peeps. Heading off to the African bush for a week so no internet. Leaving in 15min
I heard there is a way to get IG in the GK codex.
Is this true
Sorry to the mods but I dont have time to go through the threads and I need to appease my mind.
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Post by: Kingsley
Deadshane1 wrote:Fetterkey wrote:I'm pretty sure GKs don't have combat tactics, and you can't use both Hammerhand and your force weapons in the same turn. While that list looks strong in some respects, I think it will have trouble with AV13/14 and with fast aggressive armies in general. It does play the shooting game rather well, though, and should easily take down Long Fang spam and the like.
Well, the leaked codex gave them combat tactics...noone has said otherwise yet, but they're pretty well known NOT to be fearless. We'll see.
....I noticed the hammerhand/Force weapon thing after posting. I meant in an either/or context....didnt come out that way when I posted it though.
AV 14 pretty well gets wasted between 5 lascannons and a potential 20 str 7 rending if it gets within 24" of your firebase. I.E., move close to me and lose your landraider.
At any rate, this list 'could' be a decent starting point for a truly competetive Grey Knight list. Maybe evolving into something a little more rounded after playtesting a good amount of games.....
Combat Squads and Combat Tactics are different rules-- GK get Combat Squads, letting them split ten man units into two five-man ones, but not Combat Tactics, which lets you fail tests voluntarily.
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Post by: jcd386
I think it is definitely a strong list. Dread-spam usually is.
A bit of a side note: 5 lascannons is actually pretty horrible against landraiders. Assuming 4 hit, you need 6 to pen, so you MIGHT get 1, which will only destroy the LR 2/6th of the time.
The autocannons will only glance it, which might be helpful.
And, assuming the land raider is in range of all 5 psycannons, and you don't move any of the squads, you'll shoot 20 times, miss with 13/14, get 2-3ish 6s for the rending, meaning 2 pens and a glance. So, you might kill it, unless it popped smoke...then probably not, and even if you do, that soaked up a whole lot of your shooting.
Obviously mathhammer isn't everything, but can still be nice too know what is most likely to happen.
I would probably leave a few of the multi-meltas on the dreads, as it saves you points, is still a 24" s8 shot, and would take out AV14 much more reliably.
That being said, land raiders suck with how much melta is in most lists nowadays, so i wouldn't be too worried about them. even if the land raider does mess you up a bit, you will probably have destroyed most of their other units in the army.
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Post by: ph34r
Bryce-2-Good87 wrote:Sorry peeps. Heading off to the African bush for a week so no internet. Leaving in 15min
I heard there is a way to get IG in the GK codex.
Is this true
Sorry to the mods but I dont have time to go through the threads and I need to appease my mind.
There are henchmen that can have various wargear. No Ig squads like in the codex IG though. You can give warrior henchmen anything from carapace armor, to hotshot lasguns, to bolters, to special weapons. BS3. Automatically Appended Next Post: Fetterkey wrote:Combat Squads and Combat Tactics are different rules-- GK get Combat Squads, letting them split ten man units into two five-man ones, but not Combat Tactics, which lets you fail tests voluntarily.
Cowards die in shame!
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Post by: Kroothawk
bhsman wrote:This isn't Codex: Tau Empire.
Sleek new Gundam models, new usable Xeno allies, you must be wrong: This IS the new Tau Codex!  
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Post by: Bryce-2-Good87
Thanks!
11
Post by: ph34r
H.B.M.C. wrote:ph34r wrote:Ah yeah, sorry you did derp. While I said the words "assault" and "melta gun", you read "psycannon". Close though!
Ah Jesus... CONTEXT ph34r! Context! It was fairly obvious that Amaya was talking about Psycannons when he said ' if you can't get within 24"'. Must you be so insulting with everyone?
CONTEXT HBMC! I said using melta or assault against raiders is impossible. He somehow took that to mean that using psycannons on raiders is impossible. Really, I love the back and forth, but at least read the posts... And I don't insult aimlessly, I simply heap sarcasm on others' stupid arguments. Amaya wrote:H.B.M.C. wrote:ph34r wrote:Ah yeah, sorry you did derp. While I said the words "assault" and "melta gun", you read "psycannon". Close though!
Ah Jesus... CONTEXT ph34r! Context! It was fairly obvious that Amaya was talking about Psycannons when he said ' if you can't get within 24"'. Must you be so insulting with everyone?
Well, you gotta make up for lack of cleverness somehow...
This coming from the guy that counters "assault and melta are bad against raiders" with "if you can't get within psycannon range you are bad".
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Post by: Kingsley
ph34r wrote:Fetterkey wrote:Combat Squads and Combat Tactics are different rules-- GK get Combat Squads, letting them split ten man units into two five-man ones, but not Combat Tactics, which lets you fail tests voluntarily.
Cowards die in shame!
There is no glory in pointless defeat!
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Post by: Puscifer
Am I the only person who likes all the GK models???
4884
Post by: Therion
SAFH Grey Knights
That army is a far cry from ' SAFH'. It's an awful list. Venerable Dreads with TLAC and psybolts cost 200 points a pop. The opponents are getting nearly 3 Hydras for that price. Additionally did you forget the gun is not AP3 like missile spam, but AP4? I compare your list to IG because you want to play them like IG but do it worse than them. After the psycannon was nerfed to 24" range those footslogging 5man squads seem a lot less scary.
I see potential.
There's potential in henchmen not Grey Knights. Now since they nerfed the Dreadknight to oblivion and saved me couple hundred euros, the heavy support choice is the el cheapo Rifleman with psybolts. The rest of the army is all henchmen however. 3 man squads with flamers and 3 man squads with meltas, all in Razorbacks. You can get about 20 of those units+vehicles. Equip them with random wargear to say your army isn't all identical. Some Razors could be las/ plas, some TL asscan with psybolts, some TL HB with psybolts. Call it SAFH henchmen or Codex: Razorbacks but definately not Grey Knights.
I'm sure someone will eventually figure out some decent way to play actual GK but it has to be all out assault then with deep strikes and personal teleporters, just like Daemons. It will get slaughtered by mech every time though, just like Daemons.
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Post by: Slayer le boucher
A interessting fact about GK's For Khorne Deamons Players.
They are all equiped with Force Weapons?..., the Blood God Blessing give you a 2++ save against force weapons.
So apart from those pesky Deamon Killer Hammers your Greater Deamons,Herald,Princes and SkullTaker are pretty save against those Nemesis weapons ^^.
There is some good sides to have every GK have FW...
Also the Heroic Sacrifice psy power from the Brotherhood Champ, at first i was a bit worried that my regular GK opponents would use that to get rid of mu Kharn,...but because its a psy power, Kharn is totaly immune to it!
Love & Hate that the GK's are all Psy powers, love it because of my Blessing(even if it is only Kharn though..) and hate it because...,well because they are Psy powers?...,what else do you want?
11
Post by: ph34r
Therion wrote:There's potential in henchmen not Grey Knights. Now since they nerfed the Dreadknight to oblivion and saved me couple hundred euros, the heavy support choice is the el cheapo Rifleman with psybolts. The rest of the army is all henchmen however. 3 man squads with flamers and 3 man squads with meltas, all in Razorbacks. You can get about 20 of those units+vehicles. Equip them with random wargear to say your army isn't all identical. Some Razors could be las/plas, some TL asscan with psybolts, some TL HB with psybolts. Call it SAFH henchmen or Codex: Razorbacks but definately not Grey Knights.
I'm sure someone will eventually figure out some decent way to play actual GK but it has to be all out assault then with deep strikes and personal teleporters, just like Daemons. It will get slaughtered by mech every time though, just like Daemons.
Codex Greyzorbacks
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Post by: Fafnir
Slayer le boucher wrote:A interessting fact about GK's For Khorne Deamons Players.
They are all equiped with Force Weapons?..., the Blood God Blessing give you a 2++ save against force weapons.
So apart from those pesky Deamon Killer Hammers your Greater Deamons,Herald,Princes and SkullTaker are pretty save against those Nemesis weapons ^^.
There is some good sides to have every GK have FW...
Also the Heroic Sacrifice psy power from the Brotherhood Champ, at first i was a bit worried that my regular GK opponents would use that to get rid of mu Kharn,...but because its a psy power, Kharn is totaly immune to it!
Love & Hate that the GK's are all Psy powers, love it because of my Blessing(even if it is only Kharn though..) and hate it because...,well because they are Psy powers?...,what else do you want?
Doesn't matter if you have a 2++. With Servo Skulls and warp quake, your army won't even make it onto the table.
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Post by: AvatarForm
Puscifer wrote:Am I the only person who likes all the GK models???
I like them all... Im just never going to use them for GK figures or even play against them.
I picture them all as either conversions or display pieces...
Ie. Dreadknight will become something Tau or Orky; while the PAGK and TAGK will become Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons with a bit of filing and shoulder pad replacements.
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Post by: Kilkrazy
Less of the swearing and shouting, everyone.
This thread is no longer news, so I'll close it.
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