The saga of the bear brought back memories of the discussion of if you could RAW shoot your own units. Start of the game shoot your warlord with a crappy little pistol just so he passes his save so you get the aura of 6+++. I like the tools you can kit out your librarians with. Primaris with the armor of russ using the fury of wolf spirits would be a scary dude. Lone wolf stratagem looks really cool and I see it getting a lot of play. Cloaked by the storm will be used a great deal alongside storm caller to protect a package of wolf dreads and thunder wolves.
I see a healthy amount of options for getting your guys into combat through -1s to hit and the like. The psychic phase will ironically be a very big part of the game for space wolves.
As for Primaris elements go I don't see too much synergy. Primaris want to shoot and scoot as they don't really have much kick in melee. A librarian sitting back with a gaggle of hellblasters and a banner could be a solid firebase though as they move up the board providing danger close fire support. Aggressors could also have some fun due to being a bit more reliable in CQC, but nothing amazing.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: The saga of the bear brought back memories of the discussion of if you could RAW shoot your own units. Start of the game shoot your warlord with a crappy little pistol just so he passes his save so you get the aura of 6+++.
If anyone tried that nonsense with me I'd find the heaviest old pewter 40k model I could find and smack them with it.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: The saga of the bear brought back memories of the discussion of if you could RAW shoot your own units. Start of the game shoot your warlord with a crappy little pistol just so he passes his save so you get the aura of 6+++.
If anyone tried that nonsense with me I'd find the heaviest old pewter 40k model I could find and smack them with it.
I'd applaud them for finding such a silly thing to argue and laugh with them because surely they are making a joke. If they actually insisted on doing it I would tell them that kind of RAW abuse is not going to happen if they want to play the game. I do find it fun to think about however.
I know we don't have the whole picture but I have a jumppack Rune priest I converted that's going to see some play in our 1 k tournaments. I'll give him armor of Russ and runic axe. With the spell that gives him 6 more attacks at S 5 AP-1. this lets him hold up big baddies with the armor in cc and the big baddie attacks last. Charge in for plus 1 to hit, and if we get an attack again strat like marines that means he'll be attacking 6 times With the axe and 6 with the spell. Use beastslayer saga for +1 to wound.
Funny thing about the lone wolf strategem, the lone wolf target will gain the character keyword, so it will be able to hide and become untargetable for the rest of the game. So I can imagine hilarious situations where an objective holding unit get blasted down to 1 man, then you pop the lone wolf on him and he just becomes invisible while still holding the objective
Automatically Appended Next Post: Not being able to cast Cloak of Storm on the opponent's turn hurts, a lot. Marine transports are brittle and fragile things so if a shooty army manages to go first then we are going to take a real hammering with the lack of defensive options.
My game store play with large LOS blocking terrains in deployment zones so I might be able to hide for my first turn but that will push my deployment far back, which means I might not get into combat until turn 3.
Continuity wrote: Funny thing about the lone wolf strategem, the lone wolf target will gain the character keyword, so it will be able to hide and become untargetable for the rest of the game. So I can imagine hilarious situations where an objective holding unit get blasted down to 1 man, then you pop the lone wolf on him and he just becomes invisible while still holding the objective.
Ooo - I like the surprise of a well-placed powerfist heroic intervention.
The 6'' heroic intervention combos very well with characters inside transports, when a transport gets destroyed the characters will get a 3'' movement forward, then during the opponent's charge phase the characters will heroic intervention an additional 6''. This gives every transports with characters in it a 9'' combat threat range on the OPPONENT's turn. Nothing major but it makes stormwolf even more powerful imo
Continuity wrote: The 6'' heroic intervention combos very well with characters inside transports, when a transport gets destroyed the characters will get a 3'' movement forward, then during the opponent's charge phase the characters will heroic intervention an additional 6''. This gives every transports with characters in it a 9'' combat threat range on the OPPONENT's turn. Nothing major but it makes stormwolf even more powerful imo
6'' heroic intervention also combos well with the lone wolf strat
I'm going to be over here with my lone wolf long fang... just... spamming away while camping this objective. While my rune priest rips your dudes apart with ghost wolves straight out of Warcraft.
No, Ven dreads move 6". Least in my index entry they do.
Well if that's the case it had to have been a misprint, every other dread in the game moves at least 8" with some FW dreads moving 10"
No idea where you are getting that from. All standard dreads like venerables, mortis, ironclads, chaplain and librarian dreads all move 6 inches. Only contemptors and melee focused ones (like death company dreadnoughts) move more than 6.
It is now my goal in life to create a scenario where my wolf guard terminator squad gets wiped to the last man during the shooting phase, the surviving terminator goes long wolf super saiyan and then heroic intervenes during the combat phase, and lunges at the unit that shot him for sweet vengeance.
If the “saga of the warrior born” is still a warlord trait in the codex, we can create a warlord that always striks first in CC! Armour of russ makes the enemy strike last, saga of the warrior born makes us strike first! The only way to counter this would be to multicharge him.
If the “saga of the warrior born” is still a warlord trait in the codex, we can create a warlord that always striks first in CC! Armour of russ makes the enemy strike last, saga of the warrior born makes us strike first! The only way to counter this would be to multicharge him.
yeah but then you don't get that AMAZING 6+++ aura!
I dont see the 6+++ aura coming up much honestly. I expect our opponents are either going to just ignore our warlord until they want to kill it or focus on it heavily to make sure that it dies right away. I really think the wounding a vehicle or monster will be easier, especially give him a thunder hammer and thunderwolf. Instant fun time.
Will Long Fangs retain the “fire discipline” ability, now that there’s a re-roll stratagem? I think likely not.
What is going to happen with the points cost of BCs and GHs? Currently 13 pts each, after the FAQ.
Will Lukas retain the +1 to hit ability for BCs, with the new chapter trait?
Are all helfrost weapons doing a mortal wound on 4+ instead on 6+, as exampled by the relic?
Also, rumors from people who watched the live sneak peak is that blizzard shields are down to 4++, and that we get a warlord trait that extends warlord auras by 3” - if you kill the enemy warlord, his 9” aura increases all auras withing by 3”. Murderfang gets +2 A on charge.
Will Long Fangs retain the “fire discipline” ability, now that there’s a re-roll stratagem? I think likely not.
What is going to happen with the points cost of BCs and GHs? Currently 13 pts each, after the FAQ.
Will Lukas retain the +1 to hit ability for BCs, with the new chapter trait?
Are all helfrost weapons doing a mortal wound on 4+ instead on 6+, as exampled by the relic?
Also, rumors from people who watched the live sneak peak is that blizzard shields are down to 4++, and that we get a warlord trait that extends warlord auras by 3” - if you kill the enemy warlord, his 9” aura increases all auras withing by 3”. Murderfang gets +2 A on charge.
I hope long fangs do maintain it, if not I'm gonna be a bit sad that my Plasma Cannon Long fangs are now less useful :(
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Azuza001 wrote: I dont see the 6+++ aura coming up much honestly. I expect our opponents are either going to just ignore our warlord until they want to kill it or focus on it heavily to make sure that it dies right away. I really think the wounding a vehicle or monster will be easier, especially give him a thunder hammer and thunderwolf. Instant fun time.
I think the trick will be not to give them a choice, but yeah you're right, the auras are going to be intreasting for how they impact our enemies choices, I could see the Aura being used in a way to dischourage folks taking the odd snipe at the character if they oppertunity arises, which could be handy in and of itself. eager to see the full traits
I think the reasoning behind nerfing blizzard shield is because wulfen dreads can take it now, 3++ on a movement 8' 5+++ dread is way more devastating. But the nerf to the dreadnaught axe was unnecessary imo.
Feels like the best load out for a wulfen dread is claw + shield, if it also has smoke launcher then it will be the go-to dread for SW.
Continuity wrote: I think the reasoning behind nerfing blizzard shield is because wulfen dreads can take it now, 3++ on a movement 8' 5+++ dread is way more devastating. But the nerf to the dreadnaught axe was unnecessary imo.
Feels like the best load out for a wulfen dread is claw + shield, if it also has smoke launcher then it will be the go-to dread for SW.
With that loadout you can take two heavy flam ers, or two storm bolters, too. So you have a potential of 12, auto hitting, S5, AP -1, 1 damage and then four pretty great claw attacks.
I'm peeved though, as I put my heart into painting my Ven dread a few weeks ago, turns out great, and then they just take a heaping gak on that unit in particular, despite it being a player favorite, to try and force us to use wulfen dreads. Which are probably going to be overcosted and gunned down turn one.
Continuity wrote: I think the reasoning behind nerfing blizzard shield is because wulfen dreads can take it now, 3++ on a movement 8' 5+++ dread is way more devastating. But the nerf to the dreadnaught axe was unnecessary imo.
Feels like the best load out for a wulfen dread is claw + shield, if it also has smoke launcher then it will be the go-to dread for SW.
I think we will see nothing but wulfen dreads in the dread department. Increased move, re-roll charges, and if it has 5+++, increased defence. All depending on cost, ofc. With the axe, it is good against all targets. Claw leaves it vulnerable to hordes. Difficult to say without knowing all its abilities, but sword and board dread was the way to go before - and the wulfen dread seems strictly better melee wise, apart from WS.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Indeed, two heavy flamers is possible when taking the claw. Only one if taking axe. So finally those stupid looking dread axes are going to get competition! I prefer claws much more than axes aesthetically.
It might also have to do with the other defensive abilities available to SW. A 3++ is amazing enough normally, but might be too good if you also have access to -1 or more to hit and +1 to armor save on your first turn.
Based on the review pictures I’d wager wolf guard bikers will be index only at best though it looks like wolf scouts might be troops, sadly haven’t heard anything about a jump pack Ignoring overwatch or a way to get our wolf lord into combat turn 1 so I doubt the book will be making much of a splash in the tournament meta
Shinymarine wrote: Based on the review pictures I’d wager wolf guard bikers will be index only at best though it looks like wolf scouts might be troops, sadly haven’t heard anything about a jump pack Ignoring overwatch or a way to get our wolf lord into combat turn 1 so I doubt the book will be making much of a splash in the tournament meta
I can't imagine why wolf scouts would be troops. that'd give space wolves 4 troop choices, which might be a bit much
jcd386 wrote: Weird that the warlord traits don't mention their bonuses. Is this maybe a review of the alpha?
could be, or the deed of legend was removed at the last minute (which if it's the case'll be a PR gak storm for GW)
Seems unlikely they'd announce it today if it wasn't in there lol.
maybe I could still see issues, like the old version got sent to the printers, and the digital edition has the goodies, this would be FAQ'd quick but proably cause some grumbling
jcd386 wrote: Weird that the warlord traits don't mention their bonuses. Is this maybe a review of the alpha?
The preview article implied that the bonuses are separate rules ("each Saga also has an associated Deed of Legend"). My guess is that the warlord traits are on one page while the "Deeds of Legend" are on the opposite along with rules regarding how large the area of effect is and so forth.
jcd386 wrote: Weird that the warlord traits don't mention their bonuses. Is this maybe a review of the alpha?
The preview article implied that the bonuses are separate rules ("each Saga also has an associated Deed of Legend"). My guess is that the warlord traits are on one page while the "Deeds of Legend" are on the opposite along with rules regarding how large the area of effect is and so forth.
I believe the index said the wulfen could advance and reroll charges with bounding lope likebit does now. Both the hunt and kill portion excluding them specifically from benefitting. It's a minor change but noticeable. It doesn't matter either way and nothing changed other than wording.
A problem here. It looks like The Wuflen's Curse (Kill) will practically just dead weight. Because the unit that made the charge cannot benefit right? Even if they didn't reroll charge in the charge phase to get in. And I bet there would be very rare cases that the opponent being reckless to stay in combat with a pack of Blood Claws, and/or TWC, that's near a pack of Wuflens, and not choose to fall back. Unless that is a 20 strong Genestealers, or 30 strong bloodletters / Daemonnettes, Magnus / Mortarion, who can wipe tons of MEQ easily. So it looks to me that buff will not likely to come into effect. Because you have to charge every turn to stuck in combat. In those cases you don't need to would more often than not see your close combat units dead than emerge victory.
Are you really surprised, we got a quick copy and past codex that got dragged out 8 months and won't do anything in tournaments unless the game changes thanks to the next faq and chapter approved.
There's been no point changes to any of the base marine units that suck ass like Landspeeders,Bikes,Whirlwinds,Vindicators, while we keep our bad version of Scouts that aren't troops, Likewise none of our unit's have a reliable way to cross the board safely/get into combat turn 1 without having to pay a massive point cost for flyers.
This Dex is great for players that love a fluffy codex that can do well in pick up games while offering virtually nothing to tournament players
Shinymarine wrote: Are you really surprised, we got a quick copy and past codex that got dragged out 8 months and won't do anything in tournaments unless the game changes thanks to the next faq and chapter approved.
There's been no point changes to any of the base marine units that suck ass like Landspeeders,Bikes,Whirlwinds,Vindicators, while we keep our bad version of Scouts that aren't troops, Likewise none of our unit's have a reliable way to cross the board safely/get into combat turn 1 without having to pay a massive point cost for flyers.
This Dex is great for players that love a fluffy codex that can do well in pick up games while offering virtually nothing to tournament players
I dunno about that, I'm seeing some good stuff, but no the codex doesn't like like an autowin codex that everyone and their brother will be heavily souping up, thank god,.
Looking at the recent top Tourney lists, Space Wolves have answers to the most recent trends. Knights - we can throw so many Thunder hammers at them to wipe them out with a lot of options for a 3++ and with options now that can make some of our units protected by -1 to hit.
Death Guard - same thing. A lot of heavy hitting units to put a lot of wounds on targets and that +1 to hit on charges goes a long way in countering -1 to hit issues. With Inceptors and Bikes still being able to clear a lot of screens and chaff.
This is just with the stuff we have seen. There is bound to be more to access that will help against Tourney lists. Being able to Guard our Objective holders with Wolf Guard that can Heroic Intervention 6" is real big.
There may not be any glaring options that say this is a Tournament Army, but there are a lot of options to deal with the Tournament lists being seen. With any new Codex, there is going to be a learning curve to figure out the best way things work together and what works on the table.
So, i've just watched the Striking Scorpion review vid, and when he read the WL traits there was no mention of the "deeds" bonuses anywhere. Even when looking at the WL trait page there doesn't seem to be any "deeds" listed???
When he talks about the Saga of the Bear trait, all it does is give +1 wound.... But the Community post says it gives a 6+ FNP?
I'm completely confused and will watch other vids now to see what's gone on.
From the reviews I don't think SW will be top tier, but their HQs are quite powerful, especially the rune priests, and the Wulfen and TWC seem good.
I think the main thing that will hold them back competitively is not having scouts as troops, but it's possible blood claws might be playable with the right buff support.
I also noticed that SW have access to a few sources of ignore morale tests, which means large foot squads might be viable.
Their strategems are also pretty decent, especially the ignore negative modifiers one, and the reroll wounds vs targets with a higher PL for a character.
The only chance that SW could be tournament viable was relying on the wolves as cheap chaff and screen, which would have been completely viable with the amount of ignore morale buffs that we have, but then they went and raised the wolves' points, shame.
Long fangs ignoring negative modifiers to hit is huge, because that means they can hide behind LOS terrains, walk up, pop the strategem, and hit something at full BS. It's just going to get Agents of Vect away when going up against the elves though, where this strategem really matters.
Now that we've confirmed the blizzard shield and axe nerf, I'm convinced it's an overreaction to the venerable dread because the index version used to absolutely dominate casual games where tar-pit or kiting strategies aren't widely used. Once again it's a shame, at the current meta I don't even think an un-nerfed venerable dread will be of much use because it's just sooooo slow, Wulfen dread all the way I suppose.
Things are generally still too expensive in points, and by the nature of 8th edition combat marines cannot be competitive by themselves, especially when the combat units are based on non-fly cavalries, seriously how restricted can you get?
Neophyte2012 wrote: A problem here. It looks like The Wuflen's Curse (Kill) will practically just dead weight. Because the unit that made the charge cannot benefit right? Even if they didn't reroll charge in the charge phase to get in. And I bet there would be very rare cases that the opponent being reckless to stay in combat with a pack of Blood Claws, and/or TWC, that's near a pack of Wuflens, and not choose to fall back. Unless that is a 20 strong Genestealers, or 30 strong bloodletters / Daemonnettes, Magnus / Mortarion, who can wipe tons of MEQ easily. So it looks to me that buff will not likely to come into effect. Because you have to charge every turn to stuck in combat. In those cases you don't need to would more often than not see your close combat units dead than emerge victory.
You can benefit yeah but you need to charge so that you don't benefit from the aura(ie more than 6" from wolfens) but are close enough to wolfens when you make attacks. Bit tricky yeah.
Just as a heads up. I will not be recreating the Tactica thread until next weekend when the book is actually in our hands.
I see no point in making a new thread for tactics when we do not have the book in our own hands yet and are instead relying on rumors and reviews with blurry images and incomplete pictures.
I am super happy about a lot of the changes. The forget about negative modifiers stratagem is awsome, the reroll hits or wounds is great, cheaper stuff all around is terrific, and the possible advantages that a well placed lone wolf or two will be great.
Looks like in the codex if we want Logan Grimnar we have to take his Santa Claus version. Sure, they gave him better stuff, but unless he's less than 10 wounds now no one in their right mind is going to take him in the sleigh.
ZergSmasher wrote: Looks like in the codex if we want Logan Grimnar we have to take his Santa Claus version. Sure, they gave him better stuff, but unless he's less than 10 wounds now no one in their right mind is going to take him in the sleigh.
why do you say that? I heard he got a points adjustment on foot. did they actually remove him? if so we can at least index him if it comes to it.
ZergSmasher wrote: Looks like in the codex if we want Logan Grimnar we have to take his Santa Claus version. Sure, they gave him better stuff, but unless he's less than 10 wounds now no one in their right mind is going to take him in the sleigh.
why do you say that? I heard he got a points adjustment on foot. did they actually remove him? if so we can at least index him if it comes to it.
According to Scorpions review he is in on foot and on sled and much cheaper on both options. He’s only 190 on the sled now. And 20 less points then that on foot.
ZergSmasher wrote: Looks like in the codex if we want Logan Grimnar we have to take his Santa Claus version. Sure, they gave him better stuff, but unless he's less than 10 wounds now no one in their right mind is going to take him in the sleigh.
why do you say that? I heard he got a points adjustment on foot. did they actually remove him? if so we can at least index him if it comes to it.
Ah, I think the screenshot I saw just had the entry for him on foot cut off. All I saw was the "Logan Grimnar on Stormrider" line. My bad.
I'm a bit annoyed that all the reviewers compare the points cost to the Index and not Chapter Approved. Eyeryone telling you about massive points drop that actually already happened last year.
What really changed is not very much:
Björn down 20 points
Wolf Guard down1 point (I think)
Fenrisisan Wolves up 2 points
Fenrisian great Axe up 10
Blizzard Shield down 15 but only 4++ now and can take stormbolter or hv flamer
Stormfang got cheaper because main weapon is now free
We lost: all characters on bike, WG on bikes, Iron Priest on Wolf, combi-weapons on all PA priests
apparently no smoke launcher on the Wulfen Dread
edit: yes, WG now 15 each
forgot to mention Logan, got also cheaper on both versions
vaklor4 wrote: So how will SW fair in a match against a Khorne army? Have Berzerkers finally met their match with the codex?
Assume both brings just close combat guys. Then if a horde of Khorne Berserkers charged first, I believe they crush similarly costs Space Wolves infantries or TWC almost 100% sure. If Space Wolves made the charge, maybe they would have 60% chances to win with units having comparable cost to the hordes of Berserkers. IMO The brutallity of tons of attacks have much much greater potential than the improved efficiency of +1 to hit in a direct fight.
However, if we are talking about taking down an Imperial Knight, a pack of 5 Wuflen with 4 TH/SS which have similar points to 20 Berserkers would likely do better, doing like 14 wounds to the Knight compare to around 11 wounds the Berserkers can inflict.
jcd386 wrote: The WG change is nice, and hopefully indicative of future marine points drops.
I really hope that's a change we can see for all the Marine vets. I really do think 15 points is correct.
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Ragnar69 wrote: I'm a bit annoyed that all the reviewers compare the points cost to the Index and not Chapter Approved. Eyeryone telling you about massive points drop that actually already happened last year.
What really changed is not very much:
Björn down 20 points
Wolf Guard down1 point (I think)
Fenrisisan Wolves up 2 points
Fenrisian great Axe up 10
Blizzard Shield down 15 but only 4++ now and can take stormbolter or hv flamer
Stormfang got cheaper because main weapon is now free
We lost: all characters on bike, WG on bikes, Iron Priest on Wolf, combi-weapons on all PA priests
apparently no smoke launcher on the Wulfen Dread
edit: yes, WG now 15 each
forgot to mention Logan, got also cheaper on both versions
Does Grimnar do anything in particular or is he a glorified beatstick?
Chaos and Xeno armies get to stack a bunch of -1 buffs by simply existing, but noooo we gotta rein back the marines, can't have them get any remotely good combos can we?
Spent 30 bucks on 10 prebuilt, red primed jump pack guys with bolt pistols, chainswords and two flamers.
Going to make them Skyclaws / Wolf Guard.
Highly considering running two five mane wolf guard, jump packs, shields and hammers. Drop them on my wulfen and a wolf priest when gak gets real.
Wolf priest with wolfkin stone giving those wolf guard an extra hammer swing. Everyone hitting on 3s, rerolling their 1s, 2s.
I imagine it'd chew through a lot of stuff. If the wolf guard get focused down, use that new stratagem to turn one of them into a menace.
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I'm considering also picking up a Leviathan with dual grav guns or storm cannons. Which would you guys consider better? I'm leaving towards the grav guns.
I'm considering also picking up a Leviathan with dual grav guns or storm cannons. Which would you guys consider better? I'm leaving towards the grav guns.
I would go Grav/Storm or possibly double Storm. I don't think I would bother with double grav.
Ragnar69 wrote: Why should stern-/ vanguard veterans be only 15 points? They have the same statline as WG but additional special rules.
And pray tell what those special rules are.
combat squads.
They used to have additional rules back in the day but yeah, now they don't. I suippose vanguard vets CAN take metlabombs and sternguard CAN take heavy flamers but hardly seems worth extra points if you ask me
Ragnar69 wrote: Why should stern-/ vanguard veterans be only 15 points? They have the same statline as WG but additional special rules.
And pray tell what those special rules are.
combat squads.
They used to have additional rules back in the day but yeah, now they don't. I suippose vanguard vets CAN take metlabombs and sternguard CAN take heavy flamers but hardly seems worth extra points if you ask me
Well if Ragnar can justify an extra point per model for Combat Squad I'd like to see it.
It was an unnecessary nerf not to give rune priests and wolf priests access to combi weapons. Especially since i just finished a wolf priest with storm bolter! Is this done to increase incentive to use primaris equivallents?
Northern85Star wrote: It was an unnecessary nerf not to give rune priests and wolf priests access to combi weapons. Especially since i just finished a wolf priest with storm bolter! Is this done to increase incentive to use primaris equivallents?
Northern85Star wrote: It was an unnecessary nerf not to give rune priests and wolf priests access to combi weapons. Especially since i just finished a wolf priest with storm bolter! Is this done to increase incentive to use primaris equivallents?
Northern85Star wrote: It was an unnecessary nerf not to give rune priests and wolf priests access to combi weapons. Especially since i just finished a wolf priest with storm bolter! Is this done to increase incentive to use primaris equivallents?
All index wargear options are rules legal. This also applies to the bike HQs, they are still playable.
Northern85Star wrote: It was an unnecessary nerf not to give rune priests and wolf priests access to combi weapons. Especially since i just finished a wolf priest with storm bolter! Is this done to increase incentive to use primaris equivallents?
All index wargear options are rules legal. This also applies to the bike HQs, they are still playable.
This. So much this. I don't know why everyone's freaking out about losing the options for Wolf Guard on bikes and stuff; the Index entries are still legal for these things. Just remember the flowchart GW released way back when.
My only issue is the index option i would want to run is rune priest on bike, and the index version doesn't get the 2 powers known like the updated ones would. Other than that yeah, we have a lot of stuff still in the index avalible to us.
I may be remembering incorrectly but I thought in past editions a unit entry had the base unit and then listed the options beliw with the points cost? Ex: Marine Captain. May take a bike or up pack for "x" amount of points. Why can't they just put the entries in the dex like that? Less space used in the book and we don't have to look all over for what we need. I have the real concern that the index will become invalid one day and all the characters and wolfguard on bikes I've been using since the start of 8th will be obsolete. I'll adapt but I spent a lot of time gathering bits and converting etc. can't get the time back.
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: I may be remembering incorrectly but I thought in past editions a unit entry had the base unit and then listed the options beliw with the points cost? Ex: Marine Captain. May take a bike or up pack for "x" amount of points. Why can't they just put the entries in the dex like that? Less space used in the book and we don't have to look all over for what we need. I have the real concern that the index will become invalid one day and all the characters and wolfguard on bikes I've been using since the start of 8th will be obsolete. I'll adapt but I spent a lot of time gathering bits and converting etc. can't get the time back.
Because of power levels and having to write 5 different statlines on the datasheet. There are no geneal rules anymore like bike = M12 and T+1 which you could apply yourself
I suspect the index will be invalid at some point after all codices has been released, but nice to know that i can still use the wargear options!
Another point is that it seems the Saga of Majesty is an immune to morale aura. It makes no sense that Grimnar has this trait, as it makes his aura ability making WG immune to morale pointless. I really hope that the Saga of Majesty is changed in the final print.
Northern85Star wrote: I suspect the index will be invalid at some point after all codices has been released, but nice to know that i can still use the wargear options!
Another point is that it seems the Saga of Majesty is an immune to morale aura. It makes no sense that Grimnar has this trait, as it makes his aura ability making WG immune to morale pointless. I really hope that the Saga of Majesty is changed in the final print.
He won't always be your warlord so it's not completely irrelevant.
Northern85Star wrote: It was an unnecessary nerf not to give rune priests and wolf priests access to combi weapons. Especially since i just finished a wolf priest with storm bolter! Is this done to increase incentive to use primaris equivallents?
All index wargear options are rules legal. This also applies to the bike HQs, they are still playable.
Thank Russ. I absolutely love my Biker wolf priest and rune Priest conversions.
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Northern85Star wrote: I suspect the index will be invalid at some point after all codices has been released, but nice to know that i can still use the wargear options!
Another point is that it seems the Saga of Majesty is an immune to morale aura. It makes no sense that Grimnar has this trait, as it makes his aura ability making WG immune to morale pointless. I really hope that the Saga of Majesty is changed in the final print.
I've been seeing a lot of conflicting info from the leaks and what GW showed us. Either they dropped the ball HARD on this codex printing, or they had a pre-release version of the codex that is different from the actual one. Grimnar having a nearly useless warlord trait is a perfect example.
Notable things I've seen:
In GW stream, Majesty was +3" to aura range, now it is auto pass moral.
In GW stream they showed the feats to change warlord traits into auras, those are all gone everywhere else.
In the stream, the stormfang helfrost did a mortal wound on +4, not +6, as it's shown now.
We'll either see the largest, and fastest FAQ for a codex, or GW sent out a dummy book a week early for some reason.
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TheunlikelyGamer wrote: I may be remembering incorrectly but I thought in past editions a unit entry had the base unit and then listed the options beliw with the points cost? Ex: Marine Captain. May take a bike or up pack for "x" amount of points. Why can't they just put the entries in the dex like that? Less space used in the book and we don't have to look all over for what we need. I have the real concern that the index will become invalid one day and all the characters and wolfguard on bikes I've been using since the start of 8th will be obsolete. I'll adapt but I spent a lot of time gathering bits and converting etc. can't get the time back.
Currently the Rule of 3 would be a bit harsher. Right now you can bring 3 foot, 3 TDA, 3 bike, and 3 jump of standard SM captains.
I really doubt the indexs will ever be invalid totally. Why bother? There are index options that are actually quite different from the codex (Daemon riding Chaos Lords in CSM for example) that in no way shape or form hurt their buisness.
I think it's just one big scare to think that GW would remove content just for the sake of tidying things up. You're really gonna tell me the creators of 7th edition are gonna remove rules and content to make things more streamlined? HAH.
vaklor4 wrote: I really doubt the indexs will ever be invalid totally. Why bother? There are index options that are actually quite different from the codex (Daemon riding Chaos Lords in CSM for example) that in no way shape or form hurt their buisness.
I think it's just one big scare to think that GW would remove content just for the sake of tidying things up. You're really gonna tell me the creators of 7th edition are gonna remove rules and content to make things more streamlined? HAH.
It's not that the Index options will be outright invalidated, but it is inevitable that GW will stop selling the Indexes and we don't know the shelf-life of the Designer's Commentary. What happens when Indexes aren't sold and the only place to find the DC is an old Warhammer Community article? Will it still be valid? Probably, but it is very likely that GW will just move on without address it either way. IMO, that is worse that just outright saying they're invalid as it leaves it ambiguous for the players to come up with the answer
If they didnt intend to phase models out, why not include them in the codex? I cant see any other reason, apart from selling indexes to new players by making half-asses codices.
Northern85Star wrote: If they didnt intend to phase models out, why not include them in the codex? I cant see any other reason, apart from selling indexes to new players by making half-asses codices.
in a lot of those cases they're legacy models. with no real kit for them. that said some of the decisions that way are a bit odd. veterns on bikes for example. most people I suspect make their veterans with a heavy dive into a bits box
GW isn't trying to phase out models, they are trying to only produce rules for models they currently sell and only allowing models to be equipped with what comes in the unit's box set. Twin Autocannons, for example are not an available choice in any Dreadnought box (outside of FW), so all Codices have the option removed. Outside of kitbashing, there are no Space Wolf Characters on bikes, nor any with combi-weapons (I think) so the Codex removes them as an option.
GW appears to be moving toward a game that is more accommodating to new players. The kits have only the options in the Codex and vice-versa, regardless of what has come before. I can appreciate this mentality and think that so far GW has handled it well. It just seems obvious that the Indexes will not be supported forever.
Only time will tell what that will mean for "legacy" units and options. Maybe GW is building up towards dropping these options altogether? If they are supported for a little while but not in the "mainstream" Codices, then when GW does eventually drop the options, far fewer players will be affected by it.
Galef wrote: GW isn't trying to phase out models, they are trying to only produce rules for models they currently sell and only allowing models to be equipped with what comes in the unit's box set.
Twin Autocannons, for example are not an available choice in any Dreadnought box (outside of FW), so all Codices have the option removed.
Outside of kitbashing, there are no Space Wolf Characters on bikes, nor any with combi-weapons (I think) so the Codex removes them as an option.
GW appears to be moving toward a game that is more accommodating to new players. The kits have only the options in the Codex and vice-versa, regardless of what has come before.
I can appreciate this mentality and think that so far GW has handled it well. It just seems obvious that the Indexes will not be supported forever.
Only time will tell what that will mean for "legacy" units and options. Maybe GW is building up towards dropping these options altogether? If they are supported for a little while but not in the "mainstream" Codices, then when GW does eventually drop the options, far fewer players will be affected by it.
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I just hope this means GW will put out kits for some of the more popular options. TBH it's amazed me that they've never put out a "commander on bike" kit.
To get back to SW tactics, I've been thinking about units to use with the rune priest intercept strategem, and the two units that stand out are aggressors and the Leviathan dread, mainly because both of those units are capable of one shotting a smash captain on average.
jcd386 wrote: To get back to SW tactics, I've been thinking about units to use with the rune priest intercept strategem, and the two units that stand out are aggressors and the Leviathan dread, mainly because both of those units are capable of one shotting a smash captain on average.
I was thinking of stormfangs/stormwolfs now that they are cheaper. They also serve as our transports and with a runepriest they can be -2 to hit with 2+ armor. Add Grimnar and a wgbl, and they reroll all misses, and 1s to wound.
I see the fang ships as being like magnus, if you get first turn you can protect them with powers and just make them a huge pain to deal with. But dont get that first turn and.... they pop.
jcd386 wrote: To get back to SW tactics, I've been thinking about units to use with the rune priest intercept strategem, and the two units that stand out are aggressors and the Leviathan dread, mainly because both of those units are capable of one shotting a smash captain on average.
I was thinking of stormfangs/stormwolfs now that they are cheaper. They also serve as our transports and with a runepriest they can be -2 to hit with 2+ armor. Add Grimnar and a wgbl, and they reroll all misses, and 1s to wound.
Oh yeah, the storm fang will also one shot a smash captain with average shooting. And this means the captain either has to jump out of LoS, or wait until after the first turn to drop in after the storm fang has been handled.
I can’t help but Hunter, Wolfkin and sometimes Beastslayer will be the go tos for a lot of people. That said, Hunter would only come in if you’re not running Wulfen and Beastslayer would be for Knights matchups.
Saga of the warrior born is going to be extremely powerful against other melee armies. The deed is easy to get done (can even be done with shooting), and suddently your blob doesnt have to worry about getting charged too much - you get to alternate between chargers and your units within 6”. Combine with armour of Russ to strike first in all circumstances!
Great vs melee armies.
Saga of majesty is very powerful for Grimnar, a 9” reroll all misses - and this doesnt require a deed. Deed is hard to pull off though.
Great if running a shooty army.
Saga of the wolfkin is good, but since you need to get into melee to get the deed done, it wont become an aura until after you have charged in... so our other units that charged in with the warlord wont get the extra attack until they charge again, get charged or do a HI.
Not sure when this is superior to the others.
Saga of the hunter is probably the greatest trait in most circumstances. The deed is the easiest of them, and greatly increases our ability to get mobile shooty armies into melee with us.
Great against gunlines.
Saga of the beastslayer is obviously good against big things.
Saga of the bear.. meh.
Im so happy that they included these changes, the original print was very inferior to what we have now!
So, I’d say that currently Saga of the Warrior Born will be difficult to achieve against most armies, and probably neigh on impossible if you’re aiming to complete the deed from shooting alone. This for me is deed that requires a melee warlord, likely, getting into your opponent’s lines. Once picked up though, it could be incredibly strong.
Majesty is a Grimnar only buff that will try to lead you towards a gunline style initially. It is the hardest deed to achieve, and, when you do achieve it, it’ll likely be completely pointless as it’ll either be really late on in the game so your units can’t fail anyway or, you’ll be running 5 man squads where ATSKNF will save you anyway. Could be good for spamming Longfangs and Dreadnoughts for that extra 3” aura, but I don’t think you’ll need it – especially as you want to be within 6” of each other to start with to gain the Rune Priest stratagem buff.
Wolfkin for me is all about the WL running alongside a unit of Wulfen, where the WL will be picking up +2 attacks when he charges. After that, the Wulfen will also pick up the additional attack in the following turns. With all the additional attacks stacking up, it is one of the easiest to achieve as well imo.
The Hunter trait is ok, but I don’t know how much use it’ll get. Your main melee threats are Wulfen and TWC. Wulfen can already advance and charge so don’t need the deed, and TWC – if they are by the WL who has this deed unlocked will already be in the enemy lines so won’t need the advance and charge. The only option that comes to mind right now is a WL alongside Wulfen in a Stormfang, disembarking turn 2 and basically getting wherever the blob wants to due to them all getting advance and charge.
Beastslayer, yeah, you’re essentially an arguably better Smash Captain without the ignores overwatch, and then you turn your Wulfen into a unit of Smash Captains shortly after.
The Bear, I agree. Pretty meh. It’s another one that will likely get picked up as a result of melee, so I guess it could help TWC a bit. If you’re trying to pick it up from an enemy shooting again, then you’re just begging to give away Slay the Warlord lol.
So, for me, I’d probably say Wolfkin, Beastslayer and then a mix of the Hunter and Bear for the ones with the most synergy with how I expect the army as a whole to play out.
I am seeing hunter and wolfkin being amazing on warlords on thunderwolves, shouldnt be that hard to pull off the deed and really the idea of squads of thunderwolves getting all those extra attacks when charging... they will mess something up hardcore.
I don't get Majesty. It will do absolutely nothing on Njarl until he slays the enemy Warlord? Shouldn't the ignore morale be an aura right from the start?
Ragnar69 wrote: I don't get Majesty. It will do absolutely nothing on Njarl until he slays the enemy Warlord? Shouldn't the ignore morale be an aura right from the start?
Presumably fluff reasons. I think GW assumes it doesnt matter, as virtually no one will pick him as warlord.
I have yet to run into smash captains in my local meta. Most armies are mono build here as well. I'm plan on just taking cool stuff and building synergies off of them. I love my wulfen. perhaps I'll make a "furblur" list with wulfen, thunder wolves and fenrisian wolves.
With Hunter it seems like you charge with the warlord, he makes it in, and then your next charges from units within 6" of him at that time can also charge even if they advanced? Probably doable with TWC and blood claws if you're careful about your positioning.
Edit:
Woops, it's the end of the phase. Nevermind. They all seem pretty bad to me in this case.
jcd386 wrote: With Hunter it seems like you charge with the warlord, he makes it in, and then your next charges from units within 6" of him at that time can also charge even if they advanced? Probably doable with TWC and blood claws if you're careful about your positioning.
Edit:
Woops, it's the end of the phase. Nevermind. They all seem pretty bad to me in this case.
I always play ITC, so atleast this gives some adaptation to what i am facing. Hunter against UM, warrior born against khorne, wolfkin against DG etc. In this way they are pretty good. If i couldnt do that, wolfkin might be the way to go because it is straight up +1 A on your warlord, and isnt hard to proc into an aura. That is always handy.
jcd386 wrote: With Hunter it seems like you charge with the warlord, he makes it in, and then your next charges from units within 6" of him at that time can also charge even if they advanced? Probably doable with TWC and blood claws if you're careful about your positioning.
Edit:
Woops, it's the end of the phase. Nevermind. They all seem pretty bad to me in this case.
I always play ITC, so atleast this gives some adaptation to what i am facing. Hunter against UM, warrior born against khorne, wolfkin against DG etc. In this way they are pretty good. If i couldnt do that, wolfkin might be the way to go because it is straight up +1 A on your warlord, and isnt hard to proc into an aura. That is always handy.
True, and IIRC ITC doesn't make you pick your warlord trait during list building, only which model is your warlord, so there is some flexibility there. That can change depending on the format, though.
Idd, warlord trait, psychic powers and relics are chosen per battle - so these are all adaptable Each player write them down simultaneously and reveal them at the same time.
We could also reliably make a turn one charge with our warlord with the hunter trait, but that would require him to be on bike for a 14” move, 6” advance plus charge.
Not being normal Marines, we can't bring scouts as troops, which means that we actually have to make use of troops units if we don't want them to just be a tax.
Luckily, we have the best marine troops in the game, with more and better attacks in close combat, and access to more Plasma than the typical Tac squad on our grey hunters.
We can also use our strategem to infiltrate our troops from a board edge, which seems good for blood claw squads, especially if there is a way to get access to charge rerolls (Wulfen, Ragnar).
What are you guys's thoughts on SW troops? Do you think you'll be sticking with minimum squads on foot, bigger squads on foot, rhino squads, or a combination? How many squads do you think you'll be using? 3, 6, more, less? There doesn't seem to be an obvious answer to me, though some options stick out to me more than others, so I'm interested in others thoughts.
3x min GHs with WG and plasmas most likely. Probably 2 Razorbacks as well to take some heat from the wulfen dread.
I think I will go for jump packs with my characters, fly and the smaller base really help with heroic intervention.
It just feels so lame that our characters can't take all options available just because GW thinks it's too intimidating for beginners to model them. I mean things like Rune Priests with Jump Packs or Wolf Priests on Thunderwolves and so on. It just feels so arbitrary and artificial that they can't move about the battlefield with all the options available to the chapter.
The same sort of thing is happening with the Primaris. You have these big hulking marines but they can't pick up a heavy bolter because it doesn't fit GW's financial scheme or whatever... meh.
Guess I'll make due but this will always be a pet peeve of mine.
E: This just came to mind when I thought a Rune Priest would be sweet to have within a character bomb, but I guess they can only footslog or take transports. I have a RP on bike so I'll guess I'm using an index only unit then.
Weazel wrote: It just feels so lame that our characters can't take all options available just because GW thinks it's too intimidating for beginners to model them. I mean things like Rune Priests with Jump Packs or Wolf Priests on Thunderwolves and so on. It just feels so arbitrary and artificial that they can't move about the battlefield with all the options available to the chapter.
The same sort of thing is happening with the Primaris. You have these big hulking marines but they can't pick up a heavy bolter because it doesn't fit GW's financial scheme or whatever... meh.
Guess I'll make due but this will always be a pet peeve of mine.
E: This just came to mind when I thought a Rune Priest would be sweet to have within a character bomb, but I guess they can only footslog or take transports. I have a RP on bike so I'll guess I'm using an index only unit then.
This is one of the reasons the indexes exist. Nothing to complain about unless they make index loadouts illegal, which hasn't happened yet and we don't know if it ever will.
Its not just SW, its all the other books too. Chaos took just as big of a hit with this ruling, and R&H had their codex gutted. It's part of 8th edition and not something that is only hurting SW.
Not being normal Marines, we can't bring scouts as troops, which means that we actually have to make use of troops units if we don't want them to just be a tax.
Luckily, we have the best marine troops in the game, with more and better attacks in close combat, and access to more Plasma than the typical Tac squad on our grey hunters.
We can also use our strategem to infiltrate our troops from a board edge, which seems good for blood claw squads, especially if there is a way to get access to charge rerolls (Wulfen, Ragnar).
What are you guys's thoughts on SW troops? Do you think you'll be sticking with minimum squads on foot, bigger squads on foot, rhino squads, or a combination? How many squads do you think you'll be using? 3, 6, more, less? There doesn't seem to be an obvious answer to me, though some options stick out to me more than others, so I'm interested in others thoughts.
I like either fully loaded squad, 10 with guard in terminator. Stormbolter and shield, sarg with powerfist, 2 plasma. 1 plasma pistol. But privy at 195 points. Otherwise use 6 man squad including a guard with sb and shield, 1 plasma.
I like to go with 6 squads of hunter. But thight on points when trying to include 3 rune priest, 3 long fangs and either sicaran or leviathan
Not being normal Marines, we can't bring scouts as troops, which means that we actually have to make use of troops units if we don't want them to just be a tax.
Luckily, we have the best marine troops in the game, with more and better attacks in close combat, and access to more Plasma than the typical Tac squad on our grey hunters.
We can also use our strategem to infiltrate our troops from a board edge, which seems good for blood claw squads, especially if there is a way to get access to charge rerolls (Wulfen, Ragnar).
What are you guys's thoughts on SW troops? Do you think you'll be sticking with minimum squads on foot, bigger squads on foot, rhino squads, or a combination? How many squads do you think you'll be using? 3, 6, more, less? There doesn't seem to be an obvious answer to me, though some options stick out to me more than others, so I'm interested in others thoughts.
I'm going to make a variety of lists but one of my new plans is to saddle up either grey hunters or blood claws into Rhinos, probably 3 of them and run them up the board at the enemy. Bring 1-3 RP (will test) and use the cover bubble from the RP. Then use smoke. So +2 armor save, -1 to hit Rhinos. With 3 RPs it could be a -2 to hit block of Rhinos with the strategem. That should get everyone up the board safely.
I normally run bloodclaws at minimum sizes but multiple squads to make things easier during index days. I would load 15 of them and lucas into a stormfang (tansport one) and run it straight at my opponents weakest point and they never disappointed.
With the codex coming out i am going to try grey hunters, bare loadout, except with 2 plasma guns, in rhinos and see how they do
Well the thing is I don't have a RP with a JP and I don't want to model anything that is likely to disappear altogether. Furthermore someone said index RP knows one spell and codex RP knows two spells so index options are at a serious disadvantage, points difference notwothstanding.
I'll probably just use my bike RP from time to time.
Weazel wrote: Well the thing is I don't have a RP with a JP and I don't want to model anything that is likely to disappear altogether. Furthermore someone said index RP knows one spell and codex RP knows two spells so index options are at a serious disadvantage, points difference notwothstanding.
I'll probably just use my bike RP from time to time.
RP on bike use the index datasheet, so know 1 power.
RP with jumpack use the codex datasheet. With a piece of index wargear... so he knows 2 powers.
Jumpack is wargear, bike is a different datasheet. So the procedure is different
Not being normal Marines, we can't bring scouts as troops, which means that we actually have to make use of troops units if we don't want them to just be a tax.
Luckily, we have the best marine troops in the game, with more and better attacks in close combat, and access to more Plasma than the typical Tac squad on our grey hunters.
We can also use our strategem to infiltrate our troops from a board edge, which seems good for blood claw squads, especially if there is a way to get access to charge rerolls (Wulfen, Ragnar).
What are you guys's thoughts on SW troops? Do you think you'll be sticking with minimum squads on foot, bigger squads on foot, rhino squads, or a combination? How many squads do you think you'll be using? 3, 6, more, less? There doesn't seem to be an obvious answer to me, though some options stick out to me more than others, so I'm interested in others thoughts.
I like either fully loaded squad, 10 with guard in terminator. Stormbolter and shield, sarg with powerfist, 2 plasma. 1 plasma pistol. But privy at 195 points. Otherwise use 6 man squad including a guard with sb and shield, 1 plasma.
I like to go with 6 squads of hunter. But thight on points when trying to include 3 rune priest, 3 long fangs and either sicaran or leviathan
I'm keen to the idea of using the Outflank strategem with some Blood Claws myself. I gotta imagine they had a price drop with the new codex, so 3 squads of 10 is only 3CP to dump off whilst my Deathwatch kinda wait to teleport.
Weazel wrote: Well the thing is I don't have a RP with a JP and I don't want to model anything that is likely to disappear altogether. Furthermore someone said index RP knows one spell and codex RP knows two spells so index options are at a serious disadvantage, points difference notwothstanding.
I'll probably just use my bike RP from time to time.
RP on bike use the index datasheet, so know 1 power.
RP with jumpack use the codex datasheet. With a piece of index wargear... so he knows 2 powers.
Jumpack is wargear, bike is a different datasheet. So the procedure is different
My plan is either 2 BCs and 1 GH, or vice versa. BCs with wg and powerweapons. GH with a plasma gun or bare bone.
Run two stormfangs, now at a 50 pts discount each. Park them midfield, with a RP with jumpack between them, for 2+save and -2 to hit with the stratagem. If anything deepstrikes in LoS of the RP, for two commandpoints one of the stormfangs get a free round of shooting at it.
Each stormfang contains a unit of BCs and 5 wulfen.
My plan is either 2 BCs and 1 GH, or vice versa. BCs with wg and powerweapons. GH with a plasma gun or bare bone.
Run two stormfangs, now at a 50 pts discount each. Park them midfield, with a RP with jumpack between them, for 2+save and -2 to hit with the stratagem. If anything deepstrikes in LoS of the RP, for two commandpoints one of the stormfangs get a free round of shooting at it.
Each stormfang contains a unit of BCs and 5 wulfen.
This is similar to what I am thinking as well, I don't recall whether cyberwolves are elite and characters or not, if they are, then they are excellent brigade fillers and backfield objective holders, if not then we have dreads and wulfens to fill that slot.
SW might be the only marine faction that can make a decent brigade detachment without a whole bunch of filler slots because our troops can actually do some heavy lifting.
VIP units in my opinion:
Jump pack Rune Priest: pretty self explanatory, great combo enabler, psychic support, can become a surprise beat stick, basically does everything
Wulfens in Stormwolf: IMO should be the core of every good SW army, deploy it in the corner of the board and out of range from alpha strike, zoom up next to the Rune Priest on our turn to collect a healthy -2 to hit buff.
Aggressors: Powerful delivery system via outflank, best anti-chaff unit that we have. Will be able to threaten vehicled and monsters if allowed to make a charge
Unfortunately, until they fix the terrain rules and the cavalry keyword, Thunderwolf lords will not be viable for anything beyond casual play
Oh man, it seems like i have displaced a foam tray of SW some how. I never throw away models, notvon purpose anyway.
So fat i can not find: 2 squads of GH, the old wolf, and a lott of long fangs and some chaos hounds that where wolves. I stil hope I can find them. But damn. /rant over
Anyway. How is the new codex?
1. Do GH have a role, and is it reasonable to have many in a force?
2. Are lone wolves a thing outside of the stratagem?
3. Are blood claws bad or playable?
4. Do we have ranged support outside of long fangs?
5. Can we split of wolves guards like we did in 5th and have terminators in regular grey hunters squads?
6. Can the terminators deep strike?
7. How many dreadnaught entries do we have? (Rule of 3)
I dont know if it was mentioned elsewhere but stormhawk interceptor is super good with keen senses cause hits flyers/ units with fly on 2s and ground targets on 3s. Also its 189 points for 2 lascannons, 2 assault cannons and 2 heavy bolters. Put thta in runepriest / wolf lord bubble and have fun.
Here is a list i am thinking for 1500 points
Battalion 1500 points
HQ
129 Wolf lord with jump pack (TH/SS , wulfenstone) saga of the hunter
122 Runepriest with jump pack (runic stave) Stormcaller or Fury of wolf spirits and Living lightning
TROOPS
78 5x Grey hunters (1xplasma )
65 5x Grey hunters (no upgrades )
65 5x bloodclaws (no upgrades)
ELITES
190 7xwolfguard with jump packs ( 3xstorm bolter/shield, 2xstorm bolter/chainsword, 1x storm bolter/ power fist, leader with thunder hammer / storm bolter)
FAST ATTACK
232 4 x TWC (all shields, 2xthunder hammers)
HEAVY SUPPORT
170 5x longfangs (4xlascannons)
FLYERS
259 Stormfang (twin lascannon, helfrost destructor, 2xtwin heavy bolters)
Wolf lord and runepriest are surrounded by wolf guard and thunderwolves and all are moving forward. The flyers get in the 6" bubble of wolf lord and rune priest. Bloodclaws go in the stormfang. Longfangs hug a ruin for +1 to save and provide long range fire support. Grey hunters capture objectives and moving wherever are needed.
Longfangs use build in reroll 1s and wolfs eye stratagem for reroll wounds
Runepriest casts an easy psychic power and then with the use of the 3CP strat gives -1 to hit to the moving bubble (-2 for flyers).
Wolf lord tries to proc the saga of the hunter warlord trait
Thunderwolves and wolfguard all getting +1 attack from wulfen stone and trying to get +1 to save and -1 to hit from runepriest and advance and charge from wolf lord
Stormhawk interceptor uses keen senses to ignore modifiers and hit normal stuff on 3s and stuff with fly on 2s while rerolling 1s from wolf lord and being -2 from rune priest.
BrianDavion wrote: BTW, didn't egili ironwolf die in Battleground Fenris? whose the leader of his great company now? and has their hereldry changed?
No, he didn't. He was on Cadia and there have been reports that most of his men turned into Wulfen and that his Company did not evacuate the planet when everyone else did.
BrianDavion wrote: BTW, didn't egili ironwolf die in Battleground Fenris? whose the leader of his great company now? and has their hereldry changed?
No, he didn't. He was on Cadia and there have been reports that most of his men turned into Wulfen and that his Company did not evacuate the planet when everyone else did.
Egil died on Fenris his replacement died on Cadia. On Fenris he shot a lascannon at Magnus, Magnus stopped time and moved Egil in front of the shot.
BrianDavion wrote: BTW, didn't egili ironwolf die in Battleground Fenris? whose the leader of his great company now? and has their hereldry changed?
No, he didn't. He was on Cadia and there have been reports that most of his men turned into Wulfen and that his Company did not evacuate the planet when everyone else did.
Egil died on Fenris his replacement died on Cadia. On Fenris he shot a lascannon at Magnus, Magnus stopped time and moved Egil in front of the shot.
wonder who'll be the new leader of that great company. my money says that they'll put a Primaris Wolflord in charge. could mean the Iron Wolves could end up getting near equal billing to the company of the Great Wolf, and the Blackmanes.
wonder who'll be the new leader of that great company. my money says that they'll put a Primaris Wolflord in charge. could mean the Iron Wolves could end up getting near equal billing to the company of the Great Wolf, and the Blackmanes.
That would be too bad. The Gravis Captain looks like ass and they would probably use the same model.
wonder who'll be the new leader of that great company. my money says that they'll put a Primaris Wolflord in charge. could mean the Iron Wolves could end up getting near equal billing to the company of the Great Wolf, and the Blackmanes.
That would be too bad. The Gravis Captain looks like ass and they would probably use the same model.
none oif the primaris HQ choices really look suitably Space Wolf to me. So anything done that way would require a fair bit of converting.
Nearly wolfgasmed all over the show when i heard about
Chaplain dread + twin las + armor russ + Hunter's.
Was being bandied about on another site and seemed crazy good 4+ invl + twin las + cc weapon + hunter's + fight 1st.
Seemed to good to be true........................................................................and it damn is 9 wounds my god 9 wounds so close so so close!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Still its an interesting dread for wolves and the 4+ kinda makes it a mini leviathan(that can actually fight and does make target priority interesting since i have a kitbashed leviathan(redemptor) and you could still make it your warlord to scare people 1st turn(but i wouldn't).
Its ccstr buff is also an interesting buff which at 1st i dismissed, but then with wolves, TWC and every weapon that adds strength or doesnt like chainsword wielding greyhunters or bloodclaw/skyclaws there efficiency at killing chaff units goes up considerably when wounding t4 or below or t5 below with axes etc. Imagine the buff to powersword weilding troops its cheaper but still has a high ap, suddenly killing meq equivalents becomes interesting(of course it has to survive to buff at all but 4++ is pretty handy).
Considering it can't be shot at, the 4++ doesn't seem that valuable on the chaplain dreads, and they already have a 5++.
The str buff is quite good on blood claws and the like, because it means they start wounding T8 on 5s, and T4 on 3s.
So I think the dread has value, but that other models can make better use of the armor IMO, such as a jump pack rune priest or WGBL. I'd probably give the chaplain dread the Wulfen Stone, since the larger base means he'll effect a larger area.
So intreasting thought after reading two metaphysical blades...
Spoiler:
it seems to suggest Russ and Valdor dissappered to the same place. and thus would presumably return together... possiably laying a foundation for a future trimvurate pack? I mean let's face it, Russ and Constantine Valdor would be huuuge news. doesn't matter who the third one there is. it'd set jaws flapping
So now that i have my codex and have been looking at it a bit what are the thoughts on wulfen dread vs venerable dread when talking axe and shield on both of them? Wulfen has 2" faster movement and is 20pts cheaper, but is also ws3+ vs 2+. Is the 20 pts and slower movement worth the 2+ weapon skill?
Azuza001 wrote: So now that i have my codex and have been looking at it a bit what are the thoughts on wulfen dread vs venerable dread when talking axe and shield on both of them? Wulfen has 2" faster movement and is 20pts cheaper, but is also ws3+ vs 2+. Is the 20 pts and slower movement worth the 2+ weapon skill?
Wulfen dreads will still be 2+ to hit when charging or being charged. Ven. dreads have a 6+ FNP. Do wulfen dreads get smoke launchers? If so, I'd go with wulfen dreads. If not, I'd say ven dreads are still better.
Azuza001 wrote: So now that i have my codex and have been looking at it a bit what are the thoughts on wulfen dread vs venerable dread when talking axe and shield on both of them? Wulfen has 2" faster movement and is 20pts cheaper, but is also ws3+ vs 2+. Is the 20 pts and slower movement worth the 2+ weapon skill?
Venerable also gets a 6+ feel no pain, not major but it's there. In addition I think the Wulfen dread doesn't have smoke launcher while the Venerable does, which is way more important.
I don't think the axe is worth it when the claw is available anyway. Flat 3 damage with re-roll to wound feel way more favorable than D6 damage plus -1 to hit
I like the Wulfen over the Venerable at the moment because of the cheaper cost and faster movement,
Azuza001 wrote: So now that i have my codex and have been looking at it a bit what are the thoughts on wulfen dread vs venerable dread when talking axe and shield on both of them? Wulfen has 2" faster movement and is 20pts cheaper, but is also ws3+ vs 2+. Is the 20 pts and slower movement worth the 2+ weapon skill?
Venerable also gets a 6+ feel no pain, not major but it's there. In addition I think the Wulfen dread doesn't have smoke launcher while the Venerable does, which is way more important.
I don't think the axe is worth it when the claw is available anyway. Flat 3 damage with re-roll to wound feel way more favorable than D6 damage plus -1 to hit
I like the Wulfen over the Venerable at the moment because of the cheaper cost and faster movement,
Very good point about the smoke launcher and FNP. Nice to have, but not game breaking. The axe versus the claw is pretty close I'd say because the axe is far more versatile with it's cleaving profile. The WS2+ also helps mitigate the -1 to hit with big chop version and land more hits with the cleave. The wulfen version does have the crucial extra movement, but is inferior when it actually gets into combat and at staying alive due to the lack of the 6+++ which might translate into 1 or 2 extra wounds. I think both weapon options and both dreads have a place which is great to see. Wulfen is cheaper and faster, but not as tanky or as killy when it gets there compared to the venerable. The claw versus the axe is also a decision between versatility (Axe) and focused murder power (claw). The only auto take is of course the shield.
Grey hunters can have all 3, and no there are no modeling rules stating you have to have all 3 to count. How many tactical marine models have pistols on them with their bolters?
Grey hunters can have all 3, and no there are no modeling rules stating you have to have all 3 to count. How many tactical marine models have pistols on them with their bolters?
Yeah I don't model pistols on my GH. I do model bolter and chainsword because it looks awesome.
I am a bit annoyed that the wolf guard pack leader upgrades cost more points than the rest of the squad after they didn't in the index. Not a giant deal, but didn't seem necessary to me.
jcd386 wrote: I am a bit annoyed that the wolf guard pack leader upgrades cost more points than the rest of the squad after they didn't in the index. Not a giant deal, but didn't seem necessary to me.
especially as codex marines don't pay extra for their veteran sergent.
jcd386 wrote: I am a bit annoyed that the wolf guard pack leader upgrades cost more points than the rest of the squad after they didn't in the index. Not a giant deal, but didn't seem necessary to me.
especially as codex marines don't pay extra for their veteran sergent.
Yeah I'm considering just not taking them and doubling up on 5 man squads in rhinos vs a single big squad, as I don't think we really want too many points put into individual squads... Idk we'll see how it goes.
Im looking forward to my 3000 point 5v5 apoc tomorrow.
List looks crazy strong and if i/we get 1st turn O lordy should be guaranteed aura turn1.
Pew pew!!!!!!
Bit boring that main part of army is gunline, but im glad the assault portion is hella strong and that it looks like we can compete well, when i wasnt sure earlier.
One question now we have that ignore -modifiers is the heavy hellblaster an option? or should i still run the RF hellblasters for greater flex?
Worst is Ragnar Blackmane, considerably over-costed at this point. He is 60 more points than a Wolf Lord with a Frost Blade. He is probably about 30 pts over costed.
Hell Frost ability still sucks. Mortal wound on a 6 if a model takes unsaved wounds still. Yawn. This gets forgotten more often than not.
I wish Primaris characters could get some mobility. Since they nerfed all of the non-primaris WGBLs.
That all said I see Rune Priests being souped into a lot of armies. At least until Chooser of the slain gets nerfed. Currently it allows any friendly unit to shoot at reinforcements. Say hello to my little Castellan Knight Titan Friend.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Best warlord is FW.............hint hint.
Are you talking about a Chaplain Venerable Dread? That is the only HQ I see that SW can take in the FW Index.
Worst is Ragnar Blackmane, considerably over-costed at this point. He is 60 more points than a Wolf Lord with a Frost Blade. He is probably about 30 pts over costed.
Hell Frost ability still sucks. Mortal wound on a 6 if a model takes unsaved wounds still. Yawn. This gets forgotten more often than not.
I wish Primaris characters could get some mobility. Since they nerfed all of the non-primaris WGBLs.
That all said I see Rune Priests being souped into a lot of armies. At least until Chooser of the slain gets nerfed. Currently it allows any friendly unit to shoot at reinforcements. Say hello to my little Castellan Knight Titan Friend.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Best warlord is FW.............hint hint.
Are you talking about a Chaplain Venerable Dread? That is the only HQ I see that SW can take in the FW Index.
Compared to a wolflord with frostsword, Ragnar gets 1 additional attack,Insane bravado which apparently is now 1d3 addeded attacks, an additional -1 to his armor pen, 2 damage with his sword instead of 1 damage, re-roll charge rolls (this is honestly a pretty big one) and can I suppose take his two ferensian wolves if he wants to have protection agaisnt snipers but they're costed seperately so not worth calculating in.
Ragnar is definatly an improvement over a generic wolf lord with frost sword, with Frostfang being a step above the Krakenbone sword IMHO not sure he's worth an extra 60 points though, still... he might be. time will tell,
Ragnar gets 1d3 extra attacks when he Heroically Intercepts. If he got them all the time that would be a different story. His Wolves get 3 attacks each instead of the normal 2 for Fenrisian Wolves however. I really don't count the Sword, as I can just buy a normal WL a Thunderhammer, which isn't really a detriment.
Thats the good thing with the weapon options available to the chap dread he can rock twin las/cc arm and you can rock beastslayer(1st turn aura activation- i think is very powerful for comp because a solid gunline supported with some assault elements should put us in good stead)) and armor russ or for a cc flavor inferno arm/multi meta or still twin las and cc arm then run armor + hunter, so he can move shoot(strat) or move advance/charge(double flamer).
Oh almost forgot you can switch out armor for wulfen stone and hunter and now chap dread is a dream for chainswords/power weapons etc.
+1 strength in fight phase +1attack and now your GH and bloodclaws/skyclaws are like death company.
Thats the good thing with the weapon options available to the chap dread he can rock twin las/cc arm and you can rock beastslayer(1st turn aura activation- i think is very powerful for comp because a solid gunline supported with some assault elements should put us in good stead)) and armor russ or for a cc flavor inferno arm/multi meta or still twin las and cc arm then run armor + hunter, so he can move shoot(strat) or move advance/charge(double flamer).
Oh almost forgot you can switch out armor for wulfen stone and hunter and now chap dread is a dream for chainswords/power weapons etc.
+1 strength in fight phase +1attack and now your GH and bloodclaws/skyclaws are like death company.
All for cheaper than Bjorn.
can you really equip a DREADNOUGHT with a armor relic? one would think that would, by virtue of common sense be disallowed
can you really equip a DREADNOUGHT with a armor relic? one would think that would, by virtue of common sense be disallowed
RAW yes he can. Probably in a tourney he would be fine. As it breaks no rules. the next Tourney run by the same people would probably have rules against. Personally, no one is wearing Russ' armor, its far too big for a Marine. They are carrying a token of Russ' Armor. I don't care if its a Dread or a SW Scout.
That said, I'd have a hard time justifying a 'Chaplain' Dread. We don't have Chaplains. We have Wolf Priests, which are not the same.
Each player write them down simultaneously and reveal them at the same time.
