It’ll be very interesting to see what kind of counter measures we will get against the new IK codex. I have no idea what to currently do vs the 18” 3d6str 7 -2ap dmg 2 flamer (re-rolling to wound), except try to tie it up with a shield dread, then get wulfen in there to avoid them being killed to overwatch.
I hope Russ is coming back, to show all other primarchs how CC is done
gwarsh41 wrote: I am a bit tired of facing Ultramarine gunline armies, especially when they object to a reasonable amount of terrain.
Me too, it is hard to endure ones tactical units getting shot up in t1 and 2. I usually outflank wulfen with other units against gunlines, so that when they come in, they can all re-roll their 9” charge.
I’m thinking about a list with 3 shield dreads with a culexus in front, that protects Ragnar and an iron priest. Then outflank wulfen, 3xbloodclaws and Lukas to come in from the back. Dreads pop smoke t1 for -1 to hit them, which will be the only targets bar the culexus, which is only hit on 6s. Simply to minimalize casualties waiting for the t2 reinforcements. Immune to smite formation. In this way, everyone gets to re-roll their charges due to Ragnar and Wulfen. This is 1400ish points with the reserves.
phydaux wrote: What are the odds we retire this thread and start a new one once the Codex drops?
I'd like to see it done, having to search through 35 pages just to find info on how to use it with the codex would be annoying.
I planned on remaking the thread for this very reason. I don't foresee an issue in our Codex with stuff being left in the index like Slaanesh heralds on chariots so it should be an easy transition.
Let's all throw out some potential names. I tried to make this one a little more fun than just "SW Tactica"
Here's a random experiment.. I call it the "Stormguard" list
1500 points
333
Battalion Detachment:
Bjorn the Felhanded with assault canon
1 Wolf Lord with Stormbolter
1 Wolf Guard Battle Leader with Stormbolter
3 5 man Grey Hunter Squads.(squad Leader has a stormbolter)
Predator with Autocanno and sponson mounted las cannons
2 Cyberwolves
Vanguard Detachment:
2x Rune Preists with Stormbolters
3 10 man Wolfguard squads with stormshield and stormbolter each
yeah this list wou;dn't be great in a compeitive lsit, but it might be fun vs a hoard list or something
BrianDavion wrote: Here's a random experiment.. I call it the "Stormguard" list
1500 points
333
Battalion Detachment:
Bjorn the Felhanded with assault canon
1 Wolf Lord with Stormbolter
1 Wolf Guard Battle Leader with Stormbolter
3 5 man Grey Hunter Squads.(squad Leader has a stormbolter)
Predator with Autocanno and sponson mounted las cannons
2 Cyberwolves
Vanguard Detachment:
2x Rune Preists with Stormbolters
3 10 man Wolfguard squads with stormshield and stormbolter each
yeah this list wou;dn't be great in a compeitive lsit, but it might be fun vs a hoard list or something
I think that list sounds fun. Though I am partial to giving them frost weapons instead of storm shields.
BrianDavion wrote: Here's a random experiment.. I call it the "Stormguard" list
1500 points
333
Battalion Detachment:
Bjorn the Felhanded with assault canon
1 Wolf Lord with Stormbolter
1 Wolf Guard Battle Leader with Stormbolter
3 5 man Grey Hunter Squads.(squad Leader has a stormbolter)
Predator with Autocanno and sponson mounted las cannons
2 Cyberwolves
Vanguard Detachment:
2x Rune Preists with Stormbolters
3 10 man Wolfguard squads with stormshield and stormbolter each
yeah this list wou;dn't be great in a compeitive lsit, but it might be fun vs a hoard list or something
I think that list sounds fun. Though I am partial to giving them frost weapons instead of storm shields.
the idea is to make it shooty and annoying hard to take down. the list'd collapse if it went against a large MC or tank heavy list, but for a infantry bash it'd be amusing
Ragnar Blackmane w/ Svangnir and Fafnir
Iron Priest w/ helfrost pistol
6 Blood Claws w/ plas pistol and gun
- BCPL w/ power sword
- WGPL w/ combi plas and power fist
6 Blood Claws w/ plas pistol and gun
- BCPL w/ power sword
- WGPL w/ combi plas and power fist
5 Grey hunters (for the 5 battalion CP, objective holders)
3 x ven dread w/ shield and axe
5 wulfen, 3 x TH & SS, 1 x GFA
Lukas the Trickster
Culexus
1500 pts, 8 CP (using 4 CP to outflank with BCs, Lukas and Wulfen)
Deployed as mentioned above, with Ragnar doing heroic intervention within 6” if charged. When BCs and Lukas a deployed, they will fire 11 overcharged plasma shots, with +1 modifier (6 shots hitting on 3s, 4 shots hitting on 2s and 1 autohitting).
Question: does Svangir snd Fafnir get to heroic intervene with Ragnar, and if not, how does it work? With the unit being in combat, they get to pile in i suppose(?), so if they are able to get within 1” of Ragnar, then they would be able to attack?
Northern85Star wrote: I think the daemons player would refuse to play me if i fielded two culexus
Nah, unless its tzeentch. Daemon spells are nice, but not as important as they were last edition. I feel like CSM, DG and 1ksons all have nicer, and more critical spells than daemons.
Northern85Star wrote: I think the daemons player would refuse to play me if i fielded two culexus
Nah, unless its tzeentch. Daemon spells are nice, but not as important as they were last edition. I feel like CSM, DG and 1ksons all have nicer, and more critical spells than daemons.
He plays Nurgle mainly, with a little DG and small bloodletter bomb with khorne daemon prince. He absolutely hates the culexus, because not only does it annul smite, it makes everything harder to cast AND it can tank daemon princes quite well. His only answer is that twin flamer drone, so i kill that asap. Without the culexus, i simply cant see myself winning to all that smite, because it is so easy to cast and bang, d3 wounds. Most stuff has to go through hitting, wounding and saves.
He could of course just go three of those drones, and then i would have a problem, because with warptime in t1 (when the culexus is out of range) it can travel 24” and shoot 8”.
I think i should get another culexus or two...
Actually, it could ne interestimg to hear what you guys think is the best answer to his army. Not because it is OP, it is pretty balanced IMO.
Daemon prince of Nurgle w/ wings, +2 save with the armour that returns saved CC wounds as MW on a 4+
Daemon prince of Nurgle w/ wings
Daemon prince of Khorne w/ wings (str 12, d6 wounds in CC)
Sorcerer with jumppack (used to cast warptime)
20 plaguebearers
20 bloodletters with 3d6 charge banner (deepstrikes in with khorne prince)
2x3 nurglings, placed as scouts midfield at objectives.
Drone with two plaque flamers
6 plaquemarines with 3 plasma guns (rapid fire within 18”)
Well you could use a cheap chaff screen in fen wolves to hold his drone back ftom what you need to protect. If he takes more drones he is losing out elsewhere either way. A rune priest to attempt a deny on warptime perhaps?
And just go for 2 culexus. I hate people mixing demons in together lol, so go counter away!
Northern85Star wrote: I think the daemons player would refuse to play me if i fielded two culexus
Nah, unless its tzeentch. Daemon spells are nice, but not as important as they were last edition. I feel like CSM, DG and 1ksons all have nicer, and more critical spells than daemons.
He plays Nurgle mainly, with a little DG and small bloodletter bomb with khorne daemon prince. He absolutely hates the culexus, because not only does it annul smite, it makes everything harder to cast AND it can tank daemon princes quite well. His only answer is that twin flamer drone, so i kill that asap. Without the culexus, i simply cant see myself winning to all that smite, because it is so easy to cast and bang, d3 wounds. Most stuff has to go through hitting, wounding and saves.
He could of course just go three of those drones, and then i would have a problem, because with warptime in t1 (when the culexus is out of range) it can travel 24” and shoot 8”.
I think i should get another culexus or two...
Actually, it could ne interestimg to hear what you guys think is the best answer to his army. Not because it is OP, it is pretty balanced IMO.
Daemon prince of Nurgle w/ wings, +2 save with the armour that returns saved CC wounds as MW on a 4+
Daemon prince of Nurgle w/ wings
Daemon prince of Khorne w/ wings (str 12, d6 wounds in CC)
Sorcerer with jumppack (used to cast warptime)
20 plaguebearers
20 bloodletters with 3d6 charge banner (deepstrikes in with khorne prince)
2x3 nurglings, placed as scouts midfield at objectives.
Drone with two plaque flamers
6 plaquemarines with 3 plasma guns (rapid fire within 18”)
I think that is it.
Are you guys playing with the new smite rules? +1 to it's casting cost for every time it is cast. Means his 3rd smite will be on a 7. His list really isn't anything that hot or cheesy. Honestly it's a little sub optimal. There are a ton of little tweeks he could do. I'm wondering what his detachments are though. I can't really make sense of it. The DG sorcerer doesn't have warptime, so he would have to use a CSM one. His DP could hit S11 with the relic axe, but I don't know where his extra +1 is coming from. If guess he could run a Nurgle detachment and a Khorne detachment, but he wouldn't get any stratagems with it, and he can't have 2 relics that way. That list is really soupy, don't forget that CHAOS and IMPERIUM can't be used to make lists anymore. Something is wonky here, I would double check it.
Maybe a HERETEK ASTARTES and a DAEMONS detachments? But then how is he getting 2 relics from 2 books, that is impossible. 2 relics from 1 book, sure, but not bound to a codex means no stratagems for second relic. All I can think of is:
Patrol Detachment: Khorne DP, all the daemon troops. Now a daemon detachment, but to take the axe, his warlord has to be from this detachment.
Patrol with DG for 2 DP and 6 PM AUX for sorcerer
Meaning he would have 2 CP at the start of the game, and cannot have the Khorne DP with the relic axe, as well as the Death guard DP with the relic armor. I'm also a little surprised by this being his smite spam list. Malefic plaguecasters are much better smite dumpsters.
I would sit down and have him walk you through his list.
So, a buddy of mine (who's eagerly awaiting the Codex) always ties up a bunch of points in the Stormfang gunship, and it never really works out for him. I know because of the high point cost and lack of invulnerable save it's not considered very competitive at the moment, but I'm curious if anyone here uses it as part of their army. How do you make it work?
Archebius wrote: So, a buddy of mine (who's eagerly awaiting the Codex) always ties up a bunch of points in the Stormfang gunship, and it never really works out for him. I know because of the high point cost and lack of invulnerable save it's not considered very competitive at the moment, but I'm curious if anyone here uses it as part of their army. How do you make it work?
If you face a shooty army, you cant make it work. Which is why i dont use it, even though i have the model, which i like, and i like the concept. Your buddy should put it on the shelf, atleast until the codex, or unless he tailors his lists.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
gwarsh41 wrote: Are you guys playing with the new smite rules? +1 to it's casting cost for every time it is cast. Means his 3rd smite will be on a 7. His list really isn't anything that hot or cheesy. Honestly it's a little sub optimal. There are a ton of little tweeks he could do. I'm wondering what his detachments are though. I can't really make sense of it. The DG sorcerer doesn't have warptime, so he would have to use a CSM one. His DP could hit S11 with the relic axe, but I don't know where his extra +1 is coming from. If guess he could run a Nurgle detachment and a Khorne detachment, but he wouldn't get any stratagems with it, and he can't have 2 relics that way. That list is really soupy, don't forget that CHAOS and IMPERIUM can't be used to make lists anymore. Something is wonky here, I would double check it.
Maybe a HERETEK ASTARTES and a DAEMONS detachments? But then how is he getting 2 relics from 2 books, that is impossible. 2 relics from 1 book, sure, but not bound to a codex means no stratagems for second relic. All I can think of is:
Patrol Detachment: Khorne DP, all the daemon troops. Now a daemon detachment, but to take the axe, his warlord has to be from this detachment.
Patrol with DG for 2 DP and 6 PM AUX for sorcerer
Meaning he would have 2 CP at the start of the game, and cannot have the Khorne DP with the relic axe, as well as the Death guard DP with the relic armor. I'm also a little surprised by this being his smite spam list. Malefic plaguecasters are much better smite dumpsters.
I would sit down and have him walk you through his list.
We play with the beta rules, but 7 is easy on 2d6, and three smites a turn is alot (when it happens). So the culexus helps alot here.
About detachments, i think it is two princes, plaguebearers and two units of nurglings for a battalion. He starts with 8cp minus relics and deepstrike shenanigans. I have never asked, but he says nurglings are troops with objective secured that is placed like scouts.
His sorcerer might well be a CSM, he uses a tzeentch model as proxy, so i never thought about it. We just refer to him as “sorcerer”.
Im going to let him explain it in detail next time!
Archebius wrote: So, a buddy of mine (who's eagerly awaiting the Codex) always ties up a bunch of points in the Stormfang gunship, and it never really works out for him. I know because of the high point cost and lack of invulnerable save it's not considered very competitive at the moment, but I'm curious if anyone here uses it as part of their army. How do you make it work?
I don't use one but I use the stormwolf. A LOT. It never fails to kick ass and take names.
I run a dark angels/ space wolf force. I use the boost stratagem to make a da lib on bike get higher leadership and give Lukas the trickster for his additional attacks and performance. Then I run 3 squads of 5 bloodclaws in it with lucas, followed by a wolf guard battle leader on thunderwolf with storm shield and frost sword and a wolf Lord on thunderwolf with thunder hammer and storm shield. (Their names are rock and sock , they work together and are incredible).
On dark angels side I run the lib on bike, Azreal, a full dev squad with plasma cannons (don't have hell blasters and plan on keeping it that way) and either ravenwing bike squads of 3 with plasma guns or flamers, sometimes a dark talon, others a land raider crusader.
My dark angels always get targeted first because you can't let plasma cannons protected by Azreal stay alive to blast away, and a land raider crusader will have a blast killing stuff unchecked, and suddenly that stormwolf is left to do it's job. The point is to make your opponent choose between the stormwolf / stormfang and other targets. And most players think "it just has basic blood claws in it, what can they do?" (With Lucas a LOT)
One game in particular about a month ago my opponent started by firing on the stormwolf and did a few wounds to it when it got in range, doing 8 wounds. Then the plasma devs blew away his Repulser in a single round of shooting. Just FWAP, gone. Suddenly the stormwolf wasn't a concern. Bloodclaws jump out and engage intersessors, stormwolf started shooting at a redemptor dread, brought it down to its knees in shooting, and he was stuck. Finish the flying fridge or try and deal with the devs? He choose the fridge. He lost.
I plan on trying next week one of each in a pure wolf list and want to see how it goes. I just wish they could transport dreadnaughts.
Archebius wrote: So, a buddy of mine (who's eagerly awaiting the Codex) always ties up a bunch of points in the Stormfang gunship, and it never really works out for him. I know because of the high point cost and lack of invulnerable save it's not considered very competitive at the moment, but I'm curious if anyone here uses it as part of their army. How do you make it work?
I don't use one but I use the stormwolf. A LOT. It never fails to kick ass and take names[...]
I plan on trying next week one of each in a pure wolf list and want to see how it goes. I just wish they could transport dreadnaughts.
That's solid advice, thanks! You should let me know how that pure wolf list goes.
So it took longer to get the games in with the stormfang and stormwolf, but I did get 2 games in with them today. Played 1 vs an ad mech/ knights army (spoiler, he stole the initiative and completely kicked my ass, those new knights are no joke) and the other was a 2500 pt game vs another wolf army with a stormlord tank mixed in. He also was using a stormfang.
What I learned.
It doesn't matter if we are facing something like the new knights, vs that we use numbers and close combat. And thunder hammers. As many as we can get. Even then you need to get there. But yeah, big single vehicles and characters with invuns don't mean crap to them.
As far as the stormfang goes my 2nd opponent had the 4 multimeltas on it and it was impressive. It destroyed My stormwolf in 1 round of shooting. That was after it took both fang and wolf shooting at it. I did blow his up 2nd turn but point is if your going to take the big fang for the bigger gun it may be worth going dual laz and quad multimelta on it as well, make it a true vehicle Hunter. It's expensive but it's also damn effective.
Thunder hammers are indeed always a good call! I am hoping for a nice relic thunder hammer or frost axe with our new codex!
Sadly we haven't had any additional news since the announcement that Wolves and Orks are next. :( hopefully something comes up this week after tomorrows official release of AOS 2.0!
COLD CASH wrote: Allied knights looks like the hotness after this faqDRop!!
Helverins+sumknight seems bloody awesome.
I'm using a Preceptor plus a Helverin and a Warglaive, Griffith because it only seems right to give them +1 on the charge while they're stomping around the space wolves. Haven't quite sorted the Space Wolf side of the list, but I have the wolfed up knights completed.
I know the New Codex is coming soon, but until then I want to know if there are any builds built around Fenrisian Wolves and TWolf Calvary/Characters? I have 70 Wolves and 4 Iron Wolves which I am going to convert. I just need to know what I can do with them for now?
I have 2 Rune Priests on Bike and can do the Basic troops as well. I really want to play them, but not going to buy aything until the new Codex drops.
70 regular wolves or 70 thunder wolves? Regular i cant help much, i only own 5. But thunderwolves are amazing. Take 2 max squads with storm shields, take a wolf lord and a wolf guard battle leader, and point them at something you dont like. They are fast enough to get there and hit hard enough or have enough weak attacks to go through pretty much anything. Thunderhammers if you want big stuff dead. Chainswords if you want chaff dead.
Lol. I had 15 thunder wolves at one point, the only thing they had issues with were other thunder wolves. Otherwise they were freaking amazing, if a bit 1 trick. But 2 squads of 5, 1 with storm shields and chainswords other with storm shields and thunder hammers, with a small group of 3 running backup and a wolf lord and a wolf guard battle leader each on theit own wolves, oh it hit whatever it wanted dead hard and fast.
It was too expensive for me to run consistantly though so i got rid of a few of them. Still, good luck getting through all that 3++.
Edit ---- didnt want to double post
Playing a game tomorrow/ this morning at 10am vs imperial guard. Last time i went up against him i took both flyers and they got blasted turn one, i lost the stormwolf before anyone could get anywhere and i lost 5 wounds on the stormfang before i even got a turn. So this time i am going in a little smarter.
My list.
Spoiler:
+++ 12th company of fenris (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [108 PL, 2000pts] +++
++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) ++
+ HQ +
Bjorn the Fell-handed: Heavy flamer, Twin lascannon
+ Elites +
Murderfang
Venerable Dreadnought
. . Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield: Blizzard shield, Fenrisian great axe
Venerable Dreadnought
. . Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield: Blizzard shield, Fenrisian great axe
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) ++
+ HQ +
Harald Deathwolf
Njal Stormcaller in Runic Terminator Armour: 1. Storm Caller, 2. Tempest's Wrath, 3. Jaws of the World Wolf
Long Fangs
. . Long Fang: Lascannon
. . Long Fang: Lascannon
. . Long Fang: Lascannon
. . Long Fang: Lascannon
. . Long Fang Pack Leader: Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
. . Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Storm bolter, Storm shield
+ Dedicated Transport +
Razorback: Twin heavy bolter
Rhino: Storm bolter
My plan is simple. I am going to run the dreads up the board directly at his biggest target / threat with njal and hope his cover save plus the 3++ on the venerables give them enough protection to get there. Harald deathwolf, wolfen, and wolf scouts outflank to whatever side is weakest. Longfangs ait back and shoot at vehicles in range, hopefully in cover if not thats what the storm shield on the wolf guard is there for. Lucas and bloodclaws are hitching rides on the rhino / razerback for a turn 2 charge at either the other flank or with njal. Rhinos at -1 to hit and +1 for cover should be able to get where i need them to. I may drop the razerback for a second rhino and put dual storm bolters on each rhino, but i am pretty happy with the threat potential of this list.
Neophyte2012 wrote: Lets make a guess, would Primarch Leman Russ come back with the 8th edition Space Wolf Codex? For the Wolf Time!!!
proably not, we'd have started seeing some sort of leaks/previews by now if Space Wolves where getting anything I wanna say, my guess is we'll get the useal Primaris Lt character and a release of primaris boxes with space wolf upgrade sprues.
So I just got home from my game, Space wolves won vs Imperial Guard 12 to 9.
My list did great, I can't say anything bad about any of it. The storm shield on the long fangs was particularly funny, first turn my opponent shot a basilisk at them while they were in cover and did 5 wounds to them. Storm shield tanked them all. After that he just said "well, I am not going to bother shooting at them if THATS how its going to go" and they got ignored until bottom of T5. The dreadnought group did great as well, Murderfang did end up in front of the Ven's after a few successful charges and things died and got blown away by a Leman Russ, but Bjorn made up for it. He killed 2 Leman Russ's and a Manticore in close combat throughout the game. Wolfen did ok, between them and Deathwolf they were killing back field tanks. And the bloodclaws and Lucas did good, though many of them died to overwatch at one point, but they are cheap so eh.
I am not 100% sure where I will go from here. I am thinking of dropping Murderfang and putting another Venerable Dred in or some more bloodclaws in another rhino. Also considering dropping the Wolfen for Thunderwolf Calvery, they both fill the same roll but thunderwolves have higher T and more W for 1 less str, but Str 8 vs Str 10 doesn't come up that much.
Neophyte2012 wrote: Lets make a guess, would Primarch Leman Russ come back with the 8th edition Space Wolf Codex? For the Wolf Time!!!
There was a rumour after Magnus was released that the next 4 Primarchs would be Roboute, Mortarion, Russ and Angron. I really want it to be true but I also feel there would have been some hints dropped by now if he was coming with the codex. The SW novel "Ashes of Prospero" would have been the perfect place to drop some hints but there was nothing. Instead that book hinted Johnson, Corax and Khan with no sign of Russ.
My guess is that now the Primarch taboo has been broken, we will see all the surviving Primarchs eventually but my hopes of Russ arriving with our Codex are diminishing rapidly due to the lack of even the saltiest of rumours.
Neophyte2012 wrote: Lets make a guess, would Primarch Leman Russ come back with the 8th edition Space Wolf Codex? For the Wolf Time!!!
There was a rumour after Magnus was released that the next 4 Primarchs would be Roboute, Mortarion, Russ and Angron. I really want it to be true but I also feel there would have been some hints dropped by now if he was coming with the codex. The SW novel "Ashes of Prospero" would have been the perfect place to drop some hints but there was nothing. Instead that book hinted Johnson, Corax and Khan with no sign of Russ.
My guess is that now the Primarch taboo has been broken, we will see all the surviving Primarchs eventually but my hopes of Russ arriving with our Codex are diminishing rapidly due to the lack of even the saltiest of rumours.
my gut feeling is they're gonna save primarchs for big events.
I added a wolf priest to my list on the previous page and dropped a unit of long fangs. So far i’ve tabled DG/nurgle/khorne twice, and tablet a UM/GK list twice, bar a leviathan that i try to avoid best i can. Now my index wolves are the main concern for the players in my playgroup who have all got their codex xD
I've got this crazy idea that I want to run two units of 5 Skyclaws each, and a Wolf Guard Battle Leader with Jump Pack, T-Hammer & S. Shield.
The plan is to give two of the Skyclaws in each unit, and each of the Skyclaw Pack Leaders, all Flamers. I move and advance turn one, then move and advance turn two. Flamers are assault weapons, so I can fire them even though I advanced. I just have a To Hit penalty on to of the poor (by Space Marines standards) 4+ BS.
Except Flamers are auto hit. I'd get 3d6 auto hits from each unit provided two turns of Jump Pack Move & Advance got me to within 8" of enemy units. And the Wolf Guard Battle Leader bubble lets me re-roll 1s To Wound.
Skyclaws are Headstrong so they MUST Charge if they are able to, but they are NOT able to Charge because they Advanced. That opens them up to GETTING charged, but if they do then on Overwatch they light up the enemy with auto hit Flamers AGAIN.
Now I know there is NO WAY that I'm the first person to have this idea. So I guess my question is has any else has good luck with this?
I have some skyclaws that have done well before, but i use them as fast moving bloodclaws to keep up with wulfen so just chainsword / bolt pistols on mine. Its an interesting idea, force the advance to stop the charge.
Thanks Northern85Star, your list sounds solid as well. I love our index army is able to not only stand with codex armies but able to give them a bloody nose and win as well. I look forward to our codex, but at the moment it doesnt matter much. I have a 2000 pt tournament in a few weeks and i plan on taking the wolves. It may be stupid (we have a lot of thousand sons players in our group) but I say "Bring it pups!"
The issue with jump pack flamers is delivery. You can't deepstrike in, because you won't be able to fire the flamers.
If you footslog them, they aren't likely to be in range of anything the first turn unless you go second. 12" move, 3.5" average advance gives the flamers a 23.5" threat range with flamers. This means that on average, you won't be able to move them on the first turn and have them flamer something in the typical (24" away) enemy deployment zone. Then you are stuck in the middle of the board to be shot at the next turn.
If you do make it, 3 flamers only kills about 4.6 guardsmen. So it's not exactly the most effective thing in the first place. And then you can't charge because you advanced, so you are still going to get shot the next turn.
If you go second the other player has a chance to shoot at your skyclaws, but if they live or are ignored you can probably get into range of something. But ideally you get in range without advancing so you can actually charge something, which is what the unit would actually be good at.
It seems to me that the main use for skyclaws is to keep them cheap with chainsword and bolt pistol, and either deepstrike them in like a poor mans death company squad (ideally with Ragnar around for a charge re-roll), or rush them forward for a turn two (or turn one if you go second) charge.
GW is keeping their rumors in check pretty good nowadays, if they don't want you to know something you won't. So the lack of rumors about Russ is no indication either way. I suppose they want to keep the focus on AoS for now and start sharing tidbits about SW and Orks once that is launched.
Fluffwise I think the time is ripe for Russ. The great warp tear is a great conduit for Russ to appear from and return. Furthermore Fenris and the chapter is not in a very good shape so all the more reason to begin the 'Wolf Time'.
Weazel wrote: GW is keeping their rumors in check pretty good nowadays, if they don't want you to know something you won't. So the lack of rumors about Russ is no indication either way. I suppose they want to keep the focus on AoS for now and start sharing tidbits about SW and Orks once that is launched.
Fluffwise I think the time is ripe for Russ. The great warp tear is a great conduit for Russ to appear from and return. Furthermore Fenris and the chapter is not in a very good shape so all the more reason to begin the 'Wolf Time'.
Maybe but my hunch is another loyalist primarch'll get a big event related to them, the deamon primarchs have always been "just there" in the background, so Morty getting brought back with codex death guard makes sense, especially as the death guard getting their own codex is by itself kinda "big development"!
Russ I got a feeling they'll do gathering storm style.
Weazel wrote: GW is keeping their rumors in check pretty good nowadays, if they don't want you to know something you won't. So the lack of rumors about Russ is no indication either way. I suppose they want to keep the focus on AoS for now and start sharing tidbits about SW and Orks once that is launched.
Fluffwise I think the time is ripe for Russ. The great warp tear is a great conduit for Russ to appear from and return. Furthermore Fenris and the chapter is not in a very good shape so all the more reason to begin the 'Wolf Time'.
Maybe but my hunch is another loyalist primarch'll get a big event related to them, the deamon primarchs have always been "just there" in the background, so Morty getting brought back with codex death guard makes sense, especially as the death guard getting their own codex is by itself kinda "big development"!
Russ I got a feeling they'll do gathering storm style.
If SW are getting the BA/DA treatment then it really baffles my mind why they waited this long and not get it done beginning of the year. The late release at least for me is an indication that we are getting "something". But we'll just have to wait and see really.
I wish we didnt get primaris... it would be nice if one force said "no" to them. As it is i dont use them in my force. But its not going to happen, gw is all about getting them into every force and on the table. If dark angels said yes then i can't see space wolves haveing an issue
Azuza001 wrote: I wish we didnt get primaris... it would be nice if one force said "no" to them. As it is i dont use them in my force. But its not going to happen, gw is all about getting them into every force and on the table. If dark angels said yes then i can't see space wolves haveing an issue
It's also worth noting that in the past everytime Vanilla Marines have gotten something Dark Angel, Blood Angel and Space Wolves players all tended to ask why they didn't get them. so the "New GW" may be concious of this and wanting to avoid arbitrarily not giving a chapter a certain tool.
:Looks at my venerable dreads with axes and shields:
:Looks at the ravenwing black knights and dark shroud:
:Looks at the blood angels baal predator and tacticals with heavy flamers:
I am not sure we have much of a leg to stand on as far as "them getting all the new toys". Our stuff is definatly awsome as it is
Azuza001 wrote: :Looks at my venerable dreads with axes and shields:
:Looks at the ravenwing black knights and dark shroud:
:Looks at the blood angels baal predator and tacticals with heavy flamers:
I am not sure we have much of a leg to stand on as far as "them getting all the new toys". Our stuff is definatly awsome as it is
ohh I agree but at the same time those where coming out you where hearing of people complaining about "we didn't get grav or centurions"
that said I do think focusing on giving primaris to all is a good idea. as every marine army has the "basic tactical squad" in some form or another/
According to BolS we are getting primaris sets, ice-themed dices, datacards.
To be released in a new boxed 40k game with orks and sw in it. Would be nice with an updated rulebook, honestly.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The question then is: will we see unique sw primaris units in our codex? Or will the primaris kit simply be a way to wolf up the primaris kit, to be used as standard primaris units?
Northern85Star wrote: According to BolS we are getting primaris sets, ice-themed dices, datacards.
To be released in a new boxed 40k game with orks and sw in it. Would be nice with an updated rulebook, honestly.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The question then is: will we see unique sw primaris units in our codex? Or will the primaris kit simply be a way to wolf up the primaris kit, to be used as standard primaris units?
the new bos isn';t nesscarily having orks and SWs in it, a lotta folks are suggesting it's just the killteam/RT box. still a orks/SW box would be nice.
Ah ok, then i wont be spending money. Rumor has it that release is sept-oct, so there is a couple of months.
Think i will stick to my painting schedule. I am only interested in primaris if they will function like blood claws or wolf guards, to be buffed by characters, as i only use grey hunters for cp generation, screens and obj holders. Wolf guards are nice on bikes or thunderwolves, along Arjac. Blood claws are good with plasma and Lukas. Hellblasters are good, but they’re not so much better than long fangs that i am willing to buy and paint them.
Northern85Star wrote: Ah ok, then i wont be spending money. Rumor has it that release is sept-oct, so there is a couple of months.
Think i will stick to my painting schedule. I am only interested in primaris if they will function like blood claws or wolf guards, to be buffed by characters, as i only use grey hunters for cp generation, screens and obj holders. Wolf guards are nice on bikes or thunderwolves, along Arjac. Blood claws are good with plasma and Lukas. Hellblasters are good, but they’re not so much better than long fangs that i am willing to buy and paint them.
I'm honestly hoping to see a new primaris orginization for space wolves but I expect it won't be the case. and yeah I don't have much intreast in primaris for my space wolves. primaris slot into most space marine forces reasonably well but space wolves entire base orginization is differant and if they don't reflect that with SW primaris...
When was the last time a BolS rumor was actually true? I mean it's been a while since any rumors have panned out. Short of GW themselves actually teasing/revealing new stuff.
Weazel wrote: When was the last time a BolS rumor was actually true? I mean it's been a while since any rumors have panned out. Short of GW themselves actually teasing/revealing new stuff.
never really. even the Space wolf rumor they posted is a pretty no brainer. they just looked at what EVERY space marine codex got, and posted a rumor that it's what space wolves will get
Northern85Star wrote: According to BolS we are getting primaris sets, ice-themed dices, datacards.
To be released in a new boxed 40k game with orks and sw in it. Would be nice with an updated rulebook, honestly.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The question then is: will we see unique sw primaris units in our codex? Or will the primaris kit simply be a way to wolf up the primaris kit, to be used as standard primaris units?
the new bos isn';t nesscarily having orks and SWs in it, a lotta folks are suggesting it's just the killteam/RT box. still a orks/SW box would be nice.
I would def love a Orks and SW box as I play both armies and I would buy 2 straight out of the gate. However they did that in 6th edition and can't see them doing it again. There would be people who complain about them repeating a box set. I'd buy a box that had either Orks or Wolves regardless of what the other army was.
Northern85Star wrote: According to BolS we are getting primaris sets, ice-themed dices, datacards.
To be released in a new boxed 40k game with orks and sw in it. Would be nice with an updated rulebook, honestly.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The question then is: will we see unique sw primaris units in our codex? Or will the primaris kit simply be a way to wolf up the primaris kit, to be used as standard primaris units?
the new bos isn';t nesscarily having orks and SWs in it, a lotta folks are suggesting it's just the killteam/RT box. still a orks/SW box would be nice.
I would def love a Orks and SW box as I play both armies and I would buy 2 straight out of the gate. However they did that in 6th edition and can't see them doing it again. There would be people who complain about them repeating a box set. I'd buy a box that had either Orks or Wolves regardless of what the other army was.
I could see them re-releasing stormclaw with the rules updated for 8th edition just to put out a box. but yeah other then that I doubt we'll see anything
So i have come up with my list for the next local tournament. This is either going to be awsome or awful, i will have to play the objectives and really focus on killing or tying up only the things that are killing me, ignoring stuff that doesn't matter.
My list.
Spoiler:
Battalion 5cp
Bjorn the fell hand w/ twin laz
Iron preist w/ hellfrost pistol
6 x 5 man bloodclaw squads, bare bones
Lucas the trickster
Venerable dread w/ blizzard shield and frost axe
Venerable dread w/ blizzard shield and frost axe
Murderfang
Land raider crusader w/ extra storm bolter, multimelta, and hunter killer missile
Stormwolf w/ heavy bolters
Total cost - 1993 pts
Idea is simple enough. I can get away with 6 drops total by putting 15 blood claws and Lucas in the stormwolf and 15 blood claws and iron preist in crusader. I may switch the 15 in the crusader to grey hunters for the extra range and flexibility. Iron priest moves with the 4 dreads keeping them alive. I will have to ignore any enemy flyers as much as possible, and getting in close will be key, but i think this can work. I am expecting quite a few omperial knights at this tourny, but murderfang and bjorn can make them cry in cc so it should not be a problem. I plan on giving bjorn the +1 attack when charging trait so 6 attacks, hitting on 2's rerolling 1's, wounding knights on 3's rerolling failed wounds, at ap-4 and d6 damage a peice should do about 14 wounds on the charge? Assuming 5++ save on the knight. Thats pretty damn good i think. Not to mention his shooting still. Thoughts?
Personally i hate the list. For me when i look at the list i see 2 big targets tbs with bad to ok delivery systems for mediocre troops which arnt really supported.
I wonder why you woudnt just run 2 batts or better choices tbh.
The troops are bad and you have 6 units.
The land raider is mediocre i would run 2 razorbacks instead.
I love the stormwolf but im always thinking maybe i should run more razorbacks.
Chainswords for Intercessors and a Frost Sword on the sarge and I might consider them. The problem is though that you can't fit them inside transports so they are back-midfield campers at best.
Hellblasters are pretty solid.
The thing is that mixing oldmarines and numarines just doesn't feel right, fluff reasons notwithstanding.
Ilgoth wrote: I would like to see some fully new fast attack choice, or some characters getting models. I've no interest in our own Primaris box...
Primaris as they stand just would feel awkward for space wolves. Vanillia Marines, blood angels and dark angels worked alright, but space wolves orginization system is differant eneugh they might seem awkward if just thrown in
COLD CASH wrote: Personally i hate the list. For me when i look at the list i see 2 big targets tbs with bad to ok delivery systems for mediocre troops which arnt really supported.
I wonder why you woudnt just run 2 batts or better choices tbh.
The troops are bad and you have 6 units.
The land raider is mediocre i would run 2 razorbacks instead.
I love the stormwolf but im always thinking maybe i should run more razorbacks.
Rest of your choices are fine.
Just my opinion.
The idea of the crusader and stormwolf is target saturation. The enemy should only be able to blow 1 of the 2 up first turn. And i find the cruaader can get work done on its own with little support needed. I do own 2 razerbacks and a bunch of rhinos, i could change it out. I don't find our troops need much support, we already get good shooting and a good number of attacks thanks to taking pistols/swords/bolters for free. Grey hunters get expensive when you start tooling them out, at 65 per 5 if i lose some i didnt lose much.
2 batts? What does batt stand for?
I have a bunch of other options. A stormfang, 3 rhinos, 2 razerbacks, wolfen, terminators, thunderwolves, wolf scouts, long fangs, and many more grey hunters and bloodclaws, even some skyclaws. What would you suggest?
COLD CASH wrote: Personally i hate the list. For me when i look at the list i see 2 big targets tbs with bad to ok delivery systems for mediocre troops which arnt really supported.
I wonder why you woudnt just run 2 batts or better choices tbh.
The troops are bad and you have 6 units.
The land raider is mediocre i would run 2 razorbacks instead.
I love the stormwolf but im always thinking maybe i should run more razorbacks.
Rest of your choices are fine.
Just my opinion.
The idea of the crusader and stormwolf is target saturation. The enemy should only be able to blow 1 of the 2 up first turn. And i find the cruaader can get work done on its own with little support needed. I do own 2 razerbacks and a bunch of rhinos, i could change it out. I don't find our troops need much support, we already get good shooting and a good number of attacks thanks to taking pistols/swords/bolters for free. Grey hunters get expensive when you start tooling them out, at 65 per 5 if i lose some i didnt lose much.
2 batts? What does batt stand for?
I have a bunch of other options. A stormfang, 3 rhinos, 2 razerbacks, wolfen, terminators, thunderwolves, wolf scouts, long fangs, and many more grey hunters and bloodclaws, even some skyclaws. What would you suggest?
a Batt stands for Battalion. Basicly if you're running 6 units of troops split them up into 2 seperate battalions for better CP farm. although you WOULD need some HQs. but a pair of WGBLs would be cheap eneugh that you might be able to squeeze them in if you really wanted to. but CPs aren't that important for space wolves until we get a codex
So snagged some space wolf terminators, I know termies are suboptimal this edition but how would they be equipped best, all mee, all dakka, a dakka/melee mix? I admit to some sadness I can't equip them with storm sheilds and storm bolters
"Basicly if you're running 6 units of troops split them up into 2 seperate battalions for better CP farm"
Two Battalions gives you 10. A Brigade gives you 12.
One of my Space Wolves test lists has THREE Brigades in 2000 points. But each Brigade is nothing but 2 HQs and 3 Grey Hunters. I can never manage to fill out a whole Battalion except for Guard & Sisters.
I wasnt doing those units for the command points, i was taking them because i like how they work. Its not like we need the cp, what are we going to spend them on, rerolls?
As far as terms go, you could run them combi plasma / storm shields, gives them high damage output and great defensive stay.
Interesting... the Killteam being released for Adeptus Astartes is a Space Wolf specific one, the Fangs of Ulfrich. Some cool looking Primaris there, especially the Reivers. Hopefully some more Wolf rumours coming for August!
BrianDavion wrote: So snagged some space wolf terminators, I know termies are suboptimal this edition but how would they be equipped best, all mee, all dakka, a dakka/melee mix? I admit to some sadness I can't equip them with storm sheilds and storm bolters
I would be tempted to run them with single wolf claw and storm bolter. Cheaper than a loyalist termie I think but just as good against most targets.
The other option is to tool them up with assault cannons and missile launchers and use them as pack leaders for squads on foot. CML goes great with Long Fangs and an Assault cannon adds some real wight of fire to Grey Hunter packs.
So i did a practice game vs a knight player with my list and got trounced, it could have gone differently but a combination of dice rolls and speed on his side just trounced me.
I got first turn, moved everything forward, and unloaded my cursader and stormfang into his big knight, but didnt do anything. A combination of bad rolls (out of the 2 laz cannons, hellfrost cannons, and multimelta from crusader one laz cannon hit, bad rolls like i said) and his 3++ shield made it hard to do anything. Then he rolled stupid good (6 shots on a 1d6 weapon, rolled 3 5's and 3 6's to hit the storm fang, yeah it blew up quick) and charged the smaller knights with chainsword arms into the crusader and blew it up, on top of being house raven so all his knights were moving a crazy 14+ inches a turn made it hard to even get into combat with them...
So this is my new list idea.
Spoiler:
+ HQ +
Bjorn the Fell-handed: Heavy flamer, Twin lascannon
Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
Venerable Dreadnought
. . Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield: Blizzard shield, Fenrisian great axe
Venerable Dreadnought
. . Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield: Blizzard shield, Fenrisian great axe
+ Heavy Support +
Long Fangs
. . Long Fang: Lascannon
. . Long Fang: Lascannon
. . Long Fang: Lascannon
. . Long Fang: Lascannon
. . Long Fang: Boltgun
. . Long Fang Pack Leader: Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
. . Wolf Guard Pack Leader in Terminator Armour: Storm bolter, Storm shield
Long Fangs
. . Long Fang: Missile launcher
. . Long Fang: Missile launcher
. . Long Fang: Missile launcher
. . Long Fang: Missile launcher
. . Long Fang: Boltgun
. . Long Fang Pack Leader: Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
. . Wolf Guard Pack Leader in Terminator Armour: Storm bolter, Storm shield
Long Fangs
. . Long Fang: Multi-melta
. . Long Fang: Multi-melta
. . Long Fang: Multi-melta
. . Long Fang: Multi-melta
. . Long Fang Pack Leader: Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
. . Wolf Guard Pack Leader in Terminator Armour: Storm bolter, Storm shield
+ Dedicated Transport +
Rhino: 2x Storm bolter
Rhino: 2x Storm bolter
I may be overcompensating a bit lol. Plan is to run a straight up game for the mission / objectives while outflanking with the multimelta longfangs to hipefully come in within 12", but if not its still closer fire support. The terminators are in there for the 2 stormshield wounds, just to make sure my longfangs dont get blown away easily by a basilisk of something else big.
Here is hoping for some good luck. I really hope i dont end up against knights every game but it seems like in the local meta thats how its going.
WGPL in TDA isnt worth it as pack leaders in other units. They cant take heavy terminator weapons, come at regular price vs a normal WG who comes at a discount: same as the cost of a regular marine of that unit. So the highest benefit is with scouts and BCs, kitted offensively to hide behind the bodies of the unit.
Yeah, i can see that. I was looking at it as 2 3++ wounds the enemy will have to get through before they start hitting my heavy weapons. I have had a few games where i have put a normal wgpl with a storm shield and another body into the squad and that lone storm shield held the line against much more firepower than they should have. And the cost between 1 guy and wgpl with storm shield and terminator wgpl with storm shield was nominal, but thats 2 stormshield wounds vs 1, so yeah thats why i went with the terms.
I think SW have to beat knights in melee, with storm shields and thunder hammers. TWCHQs and wulfen do a pretty good job of messing them up. Obviously it's gonna be an uphill battle though.
Northern85Star wrote: WGPL in TDA isnt worth it as pack leaders in other units. They cant take heavy terminator weapons.
Actually they can for Long Fang packs. The LF entry specifically states that a WGPL in TDA make items from the Terminator heavy weapon list.
True, but two long fangs with missile launchers are 2 points cheaper and strictly better than a CML (12” better range, 2d6 frag compared to 2d3 w/ CML). If you run two of these, you could swap them for an entire squad of long fangs with heavy bolters. The chassis is just too expensive for what it does.
Northern85Star wrote: WGPL in TDA isnt worth it as pack leaders in other units. They cant take heavy terminator weapons.
Actually they can for Long Fang packs. The LF entry specifically states that a WGPL in TDA make items from the Terminator heavy weapon list.
True, but two long fangs with missile launchers are 2 points cheaper and strictly better than a CML (12” better range, 2d6 frag compared to 2d3 w/ CML). If you run two of these, you could swap them for an entire squad of long fangs with heavy bolters. The chassis is just too expensive for what it does.
But if your Long Fangs already have five heavy weapons then you can't get another Missile Launcher in that squad at any price other than adding a WGBL
Folks, I have a recollection of an updated list of Space Wolves Primaris that added some post-Index units to the list, am I imagining it - and, if not, where might one find it?
lindsay40k wrote: Folks, I have a recollection of an updated list of Space Wolves Primaris that added some post-Index units to the list, am I imagining it - and, if not, where might one find it?
Codex Space Marines. When it launched GW was quick to state that players of other marine armies are welcome to use that for primaris stuff until the deployment of their own codex.
And it's a safe bet most of it will be the same. my onlky question are chaplains and apocatharies. will space wolf primaris marines get a standard one, or will they put out a primaris wolf preist?
A Primaris Wolf Priest would be cool. SWs have always done things their own way so if anyone were to get customized Primaris, Wolves would be a good place to start.
The thing is that the basic Primaris range still has some gaps in it. No Techmarine, no assault units (Reivers are more harassment than dedicated melee) and no basic Transports.
I would love wolves to get a few shiny new toys but running a pure Primaris army is hard work at the moment and I feel the basic line needs improving first.
Of course I would love to see new plastic in the form of Russ himself but I think the odds of that are fading.
Karhedron wrote: A Primaris Wolf Priest would be cool. SWs have always done things their own way so if anyone were to get customized Primaris, Wolves would be a good place to start.
The thing is that the basic Primaris range still has some gaps in it. No Techmarine, no assault units (Reivers are more harassment than dedicated melee) and no basic Transports.
I would love wolves to get a few shiny new toys but running a pure Primaris army is hard work at the moment and I feel the basic line needs improving first.
Of course I would love to see new plastic in the form of Russ himself but I think the odds of that are fading.
I'm more thinking rules then a seperate mini. I can convert easily eneugh
Karhedron wrote: GW don't seem to release rules without models anymore.
Grey Knight Grandmaster comes to mind. anything that'd be a complex conversion at best won't happen, but let's face it a wolf preist is basicly just a chaplain with a skull hat tops.
So I was wondering if you guys had any good tactics for a melee heavy SW list of 2000p versus a very shooty Tau list?
I´ve been having some problems handling his Overwatch and while I know some tricks like hiding behind Rhinos and cover and such when declaring charge, that doesn´t always apply.
You guys got any good tactics to deal with or work around the Tau Overwatch?
When charging tau you need multiple threats at once. Once a tau player does support ovetwatch that unit cant overwatch again that turn, so if your threatening 3 charges to 3 different units at once its less likely he will use the ability even if you then decide to not charge with groups 2 and 3.
Azuza001 wrote: When charging tau you need multiple threats at once. Once a tau player does support ovetwatch that unit cant overwatch again that turn, so if your threatening 3 charges to 3 different units at once its less likely he will use the ability even if you then decide to not charge with groups 2 and 3.
That´s a good idea actually, I´ve always been trying to get all my units into melee when I don´t exactly need to.
What about working around their ability to fly away with their suits and flying tanks and then fire normally? Any good counters, or should I just take it?
Also if you guys have any good ideas for weapons that counter Tau (other than Stormshields), I´d love to know your experiences with such weaponry. Heavy autocannons on Terminators or more Long Fang units, anything like that?
Well if your charging crisis suits then there isn't much you can do, just hit them hard is the best suggestion i can give. They are going to fly away if they survive. Hidden thunder hammers / power fists can help there to finish an already damaged group. But in the end you can only do so much.
I play tau a lot, though not often with my wolves. If its crisis suits your having issues with i think heavy bolters are a must to have in numbers. Wounds suits on 4's, all other basic units on 3's, cheap, effective. For terminators wolf claws are ace against tau, with a few storm bolter storm shield guys for protection. Wolf scouts can also be useful, for the 100 pts you can get a decent number of plasma shots coming in outflank to hit a side hard.
Herald deathwolf loves tau. 2++ vs shooting? Overwatch doesn't matter to him, and he can outflank for free as well. Put some wulfen with him and you have an incredible outflank force that can really do damage.
Other than that grey hunters are where i would go. 10 man teams in rhinos moving up and hit him with numbers, grey hunters do well in shooting and cc for a low cost.
A maxed out grey hunter squad with 2 plasma guns, a plasma pistol, combi plasma and 2 power fists comes to 202 points. Plus a Rhino to get them upfield. Or drop pod them in to murderize something, as they can all take chainswords for CC goodness. The plus side to this is any shooting on the deepstrike has to attack the drop pod, not the unit inside.
85 points for a wolf scout squad with a missile launcher, or 65 with a heavy bolter. I like the idea of a vanguard detachment with 3 sets of wolf scouts for some infiltration shenanigans.
As stated above, Harald Deathwolf loves overwatch, he saves everything! And you can give him a bodyguard of Fen Wolves which can use his leadership.
Hmm. How are y’all delivering melee Terminators to Tau? They’re a pretty mobile army, Fire Warrior gunlines notwithstanding. Also, how many in a squad?
Deep strike is how i do it. Yea tau are mobile, but not everything in a tau force is. Many opponents will put their big stuff into a corner and surround it. Remember our terms can be heavily customized. Drop a squad of 5 in, 4 cc setup, one with an assualt cannon setup, corner them and charge. If wulfen happen to be near them suddenly they can reroll failed charges.... makes it easier to get in. If your opponent runs a highly mobile tau force then terms probably are not the best option. But if they have some of the bigger things there like a stormsurge, that thing is only moving if its scared. Make it scared.
Also wolf guard on bikes can be ungodly stupid. 5 bikers all equipped with storm shields and storm bolters move 14", have 2 t5 3++ saves, and fire 40 bolter shots at 12" for 215 pts. Want anti big stuff? Give them combi meltas or combi plasma (though i dont want to make mine any more expensive than they already are) and with that kind of speed they should be able to get into range and kill firewarriors before they can do anything. And they can charge important things, some should survive no matter how much overwatch is fired, giving your bigger / better cc stuff a chance to get in easy.
If i was going to go up right now against tau this is what i would take. I would force the issue.
Spoiler:
+ HQ +
Harald Deathwolf
Wolf Guard Battle Leader on Thunderwolf: Frost sword, Krakenbone Sword, Storm shield
Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
Wolf Guard on Bikes
. . Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . . . Bike: Twin boltgun
. . Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . . . Bike: Twin boltgun
. . Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . . . Bike: Twin boltgun
. . Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . . . Bike: Twin boltgun
. . Wolf Guard on Bike Pack Leader: Chainsword, Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . . . Bike: Twin boltgun
Wolf Scouts
. . Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
. . Wolf Scout: Boltgun
. . Wolf Scout: Boltgun
. . Wolf Scout Pack Leader: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. . Wolf Scout with Heavy Weapon: Plasma gun
. . Wolf Scout with Melee Weapon: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Long Fangs
. . Long Fang: Lascannon
. . Long Fang: Lascannon
. . Long Fang: Lascannon
. . Long Fang: Lascannon
. . Long Fang Pack Leader: Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
. . Wolf Guard Pack Leader in Terminator Armour: Storm bolter, Storm shield
+ Dedicated Transport +
Rhino: 2x Storm bolter
Rhino: 2x Storm bolter
I would rather take 3 squads of 10 on the grey hunters, possibly another rhino for 3 running up the table, popping smoke t1. That -1 to hit cant be ignored.
The thought process is move up, get into position, and put maximum pressure against the tau lines. This helps keep the longfangs alive. Use them to target things that can kill your infantry quickly, or big open targets. Wolf lord, wolf battle leader, and thinderwolves move up with bikes and go after drones and infantry that are avalible to hit. Wulfen, herald, and scouts, outflank. They show up t2 where needed, popping off 6 plasma shots rerolling 1's, and charging rerolling failed charges. Thunderwolves should also be in charge range, grey hunters should be deployed and unloading on their targets as well, and if any rhinos survived by now charge them in to soak overwatch. Turn 3.... profit? Lol. But thats how i would do it
Starting to get antsy about no info on codex!! struggling to keep my hopes down becuz dont wanna be crushed by a grey knight wolf dex!! just incase they mess it up.
COLD CASH wrote: Starting to get antsy about no info on codex!! struggling to keep my hopes down becuz dont wanna be crushed by a grey knight wolf dex!! just incase they mess it up.
Arggggh wish i still smoked!!!
I'm expecting something on par with the other space marine chapter codexes, so medocire to reasonably good. my concern is honestly from a fluff POV, that the primaris Marines will start to see the sons of russ be homogonized with the codex marine chapters, which would be a right shame.
My best friend’s recently got a Spartan and ten Wulfen, and she’s struggling to make them work - my own army usually has Melta and las that works fairly efficiently against it, and Fiends of Slaanesh that really wind her up by preventing fall backs, and Sorcerers that really wind her up by killing Storm Shields with Death Hex. Any advice for her? She also likes to field a Knight (shooty one) and Long Fangs, sometimes in a Bastion.
Wulfen with storm shields and thunder hammers should be able to survive a LOT of punishment. 2 wounds, 3++/5+++ save, and fast as russ. Put them with a lord on a wolf (or herald deathwolf for ultimate lols) and thats one squad outflanking and killing something dead no matter what it is.
She’s also keen on Terminators. I’ve had limited fortune with my own Chaos Terminators, which share SW access to combi-weapons. Arjac is an interesting wildcard, though. Are they viable as a deathstar of sorts? Teleport or Spartan?
Automatically Appended Next Post: She’s planning a Claws leader, 5 THSS, 4 axes on the Wulfen
combatcotton wrote: Slaanesh termis can fire twice unless that is an option here I would -currently- stay away from any terminators.
I'm honestly hoping for a terminator specific stratgium, maybe one that improves the invul save for a round. that'd not be OP, sure it means shield equipped termies could get a 2++ but cap it out at 3++ and it'd work or even just let the termies have a 2++ for a round, somehow I doubt it'd be game breakingly unbalanced.
Just pondering here, how about a TDA heavy list with Logan Grimnar? Re-rolling all misses. Arjac also gains this bonus, and could further buff with re-roll 1s to wound. Could be a devastating deepstrike, but might be better with just WG with jump packs, to get as many points into models and weapons as possible.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Marmatag wrote: I'm going to start collecting Space Wolves soon.
I don't know if it will be a viable army, but i'm essentially thinking of going with:
lindsay40k wrote: My best friend’s recently got a Spartan and ten Wulfen, and she’s struggling to make them work - my own army usually has Melta and las that works fairly efficiently against it, and Fiends of Slaanesh that really wind her up by preventing fall backs, and Sorcerers that really wind her up by killing Storm Shields with Death Hex. Any advice for her? She also likes to field a Knight (shooty one) and Long Fangs, sometimes in a Bastion.
Well the bad news is that Wulfen cannot ride in a spartan as far as I am aware. I don't think any FW vehicles can transport Wulfen due to them not listing them as a passenger option.
Outflank them with the stratagem and deep strike a wolf priest near them for the re-rolls. Sounds like her list has too many big point investments that allow you to have an easy time with target priority.
I'm starting to see that one of the keys to building a good all-comers army list lies in taking units that you DON'T want to take, but that fill a key role that the fluffy units you DO want to take can't do.
For example, I WANT my Wolves army to be 100% classic Marines, with nearly half the points/drops taken up by Grey Hunters. I DON'T want to take Primaris marines. But Agressors have the high ROF firepower to deal with Hordes like the Cultist meatshield or the Ork Green Tide. And Hellblasters have the massive plasma dakka to deal with MEQs.
Suddenly I'm playing shooty Space Wolves. Why is that?
phydaux wrote: I'm starting to see that one of the keys to building a good all-comers army list lies in taking units that you DON'T want to take, but that fill a key role that the fluffy units you DO want to take can't do.
For example, I WANT my Wolves army to be 100% classic Marines, with nearly half the points/drops taken up by Grey Hunters. I DON'T want to take Primaris marines. But Agressors have the high ROF firepower to deal with Hordes like the Cultist meatshield or the Ork Green Tide. And Hellblasters have the massive plasma dakka to deal with MEQs.
Suddenly I'm playing shooty Space Wolves. Why is that?
I think that shooty Space Wolves with a few hard-hitting melee units has always been the right way to play the chapter. We're still marines, after all.
My favorite SW lists always have plenty of mid-range punch followed by some melee to deal the finishing blow to things.
I just really hope TWC are good in the codex. I've got 9 of them (most still on sprues) plus Canis Wolfborn. Plus they are such badass models; I don't know where some of the hate I've heard comes from. In the Index, they are a little too expensive once you put decent gear on them, so fingers crossed that they'll fix this for the codex (not holding my breath after seeing what happened with Tau Crisis Suits).
Well the bad news is that Wulfen cannot ride in a spartan as far as I am aware. I don't think any FW vehicles can transport Wulfen due to them not listing them as a passenger option.
RAW - Wulfen are <Space Wolves> Infantry, so 25 can ride in a Spartan. 2 passes of FAQ have not changed the text. (And they are banned from termites by name, so forgeworld is at least aware of the keyword even if it’s unmentioned for the index transports).
I tend to ask my opponent if I should count them as terminators for ‘model count’ and transportability.
I think it’s only come up once or twice. They’re usually flying or flanking.
Well, that is a loophole. The index specifies which transports can hold Wulfen - either on the datasheet or at the list of available units from the SM index that SW can take. So even though RAW would enable wulfen in ALL FW transports, GW probably meant for it to be specified in regards to wulfen.
FW.. if you thought GW couldnt get it right, then behold xD
Grey Hunters are the BEST basic marine variant that exists in all codexes at the moment. Why? They were smart enough to bring a Bolter, Bolt Pistol, and a Chainsword. They work fine as ranged units and as close combat support. I can't wait for our Codex, all we need really are relics and stratagems to be a better force.
Azuza001 wrote: Grey Hunters are the BEST basic marine variant that exists in all codexes at the moment. Why? They were smart enough to bring a Bolter, Bolt Pistol, and a Chainsword. They work fine as ranged units and as close combat support. I can't wait for our Codex, all we need really are relics and stratagems to be a better force.
assuming of course SWs don't get hosed on points costs I suspect they're going to be the strongest Marine Codex easily, althjough relics and warlord traits will detirmine if a Wolf Lord version of Slamguinius supersceeds the blood angels one
Azuza001 wrote: Grey Hunters are the BEST basic marine variant that exists in all codexes at the moment. Why? They were smart enough to bring a Bolter, Bolt Pistol, and a Chainsword. They work fine as ranged units and as close combat support. I can't wait for our Codex, all we need really are relics and stratagems to be a better force.
And the option for two special weapons in a 10-man squad.
Azuza001 wrote: Grey Hunters are the BEST basic marine variant that exists in all codexes at the moment. Why? They were smart enough to bring a Bolter, Bolt Pistol, and a Chainsword. They work fine as ranged units and as close combat support. I can't wait for our Codex, all we need really are relics and stratagems to be a better force.
assuming of course SWs don't get hosed on points costs I suspect they're going to be the strongest Marine Codex easily, althjough relics and warlord traits will detirmine if a Wolf Lord version of Slamguinius supersceeds the blood angels one
Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf will become the new Slamguinius. Every SM tournament army will include one.
ZergSmasher wrote: I just really hope TWC are good in the codex. I've got 9 of them (most still on sprues) plus Canis Wolfborn. Plus they are such badass models; I don't know where some of the hate I've heard comes from. In the Index, they are a little too expensive once you put decent gear on them, so fingers crossed that they'll fix this for the codex (not holding my breath after seeing what happened with Tau Crisis Suits).
The hate comes from how ridiculous of any idea it is to have Space Marines riding a wolf instead of using a bike/jetbike/jetpack/etc. It really doesn't make a lot of sense to use mounted cavalry when the mount is incredibly vulnerable to gunfire.
In the prospero burns book i thought it was hinted at that the thunderwolves were not actual wolves, but what happens after the wulfen form goes on too long. In some ways it makes sense, and the idea of a battle brother riding into battle literally on the back of one who has come before him is kind of interesting.
Having said that..... i miss the days when space wolves were more vikings and less wolf on a wolf within a wolf ship named the wolf of wolfstreet.....
Thunderwolves are a xeno species native to Fenris, i believe the largest of the wolf-like xenos on Fenris. The second largest is the blackmane, from which Ragnar Blackmane got his nickname. There’s of course written alot of bad fluff as to why fielding thunderwolves is viable, like super-strong teeth and claws, and skin that is very resistant yaddayadda. I do field TWC, but i dont like the fluff. Wulfen are much more 40k. I just dont understand why they call it a “curse” when they at the same time are admired.. and so extremely good in battle xD
With the primaris turnover, TWC is probably going to fade out in the next 5 years or so... unless we get primaris TWC. That is my thought.
I like the TWC fluff. I think it makes sense for them to ride TWC. The SW have always been a little more "feral" and a giant wolf from their homeworld that is insanely strong and durable seems fairly viable to me. Well, not only viable but likely considering Space Wolves are supposed to be the "crazy" chapter. Why would they do something that completely makes sense?
I believe they also mention that they augment all the domesticated TWC. So they're super strong naturally but like everything in the Imperium, it is augmented and modified. The teeth are replaced with ceramite teeth or something and metal grafted onto their bones, yadda yadda.
It makes as much sense as a chainsword.
I also like to think that they are too iconic of the SW now for GW to try to phase them out. It would make me really sad... but anything is possible. All TWC need playwise, in my opinion, is to give them the ability to run and still charge and give the marine riding the wolf more attacks.
Well considering that there is / was calvery in imperial guard thunderwolves as better calvery does make sense. They are bigger than a guardsman so their stats by themselves make sense, and putting a power armored marine on the back also kinda makes sense except.... how heavy is power armor anyways you know? Those wolves have to be augmented to hold that kind of weight.
40k is science fantasy, not science fiction. If you rationalise that your Astartes power generator isn’t having to divert energy to locomotion, it can super-charge the storm shields and therefore make an unarmoured wolf the size of a bear as viable as any other brightly coloured helmetless 40k unit that’d be dead within ten seconds of arriving on a modern battlefield (or maybe hang itself with its cape en route)
ZergSmasher wrote: I just really hope TWC are good in the codex. I've got 9 of them (most still on sprues) plus Canis Wolfborn. Plus they are such badass models; I don't know where some of the hate I've heard comes from. In the Index, they are a little too expensive once you put decent gear on them, so fingers crossed that they'll fix this for the codex (not holding my breath after seeing what happened with Tau Crisis Suits).
The hate comes from how ridiculous of any idea it is to have Space Marines riding a wolf instead of using a bike/jetbike/jetpack/etc. It really doesn't make a lot of sense to use mounted cavalry when the mount is incredibly vulnerable to gunfire.
yet you never EVER heard this virtol aimed at IG roughriders.
lindsay40k wrote: 40k is science fantasy, not science fiction. If you rationalise that your Astartes power generator isn’t having to divert energy to locomotion, it can super-charge the storm shields and therefore make an unarmoured wolf the size of a bear as viable as any other brightly coloured helmetless 40k unit that’d be dead within ten seconds of arriving on a modern battlefield (or maybe hang itself with its cape en route)
Which is why i like helmets on my marines, especially TDA!
ZergSmasher wrote: I just really hope TWC are good in the codex. I've got 9 of them (most still on sprues) plus Canis Wolfborn. Plus they are such badass models; I don't know where some of the hate I've heard comes from. In the Index, they are a little too expensive once you put decent gear on them, so fingers crossed that they'll fix this for the codex (not holding my breath after seeing what happened with Tau Crisis Suits).
The hate comes from how ridiculous of any idea it is to have Space Marines riding a wolf instead of using a bike/jetbike/jetpack/etc. It really doesn't make a lot of sense to use mounted cavalry when the mount is incredibly vulnerable to gunfire.
yet you never EVER heard this virtol aimed at IG roughriders.
Because regular horses make more sense than enormous dire wolves that are augmented!
I really don’t think we have to worry about the likelihood of extraterrestrial bear-wolves in a galaxy in which the most populous sapient species is a football hooligan fungus and Genghis Khan is widely believed to have become a space demon
BrianDavion wrote: Could be, I hope TWC is great, given that
I'd be willing to bet money wolf guard bikers will be "index only'd"
I think that would be a bad idea. Wolf Guard have been able to be anything since SW got a real codex (not counting their 3.5 pamphlet lol) in 5th edition. They have always been a unique choice that sets SW apart from other chapters. I was pretty surprised that we still have the option to have a wolf guard and sergeant in a unit too. Though, their biker variant has always been overlooked until 8th because TWC did it better. I'm also crossing my fingers that TWC are back in action with the codex. I think it all relies on what we get for chapter tactics, and I have no idea what it could be.
BrianDavion wrote: Could be, I hope TWC is great, given that
I'd be willing to bet money wolf guard bikers will be "index only'd"
I think that would be a bad idea. Wolf Guard have been able to be anything since SW got a real codex (not counting their 3.5 pamphlet lol) in 5th edition. They have always been a unique choice that sets SW apart from other chapters. I was pretty surprised that we still have the option to have a wolf guard and sergeant in a unit too. Though, their biker variant has always been overlooked until 8th because TWC did it better. I'm also crossing my fingers that TWC are back in action with the codex. I think it all relies on what we get for chapter tactics, and I have no idea what it could be.
well yeah but the reason I think WG bikes might be gone is because all the other veterns on bikes options from the other marine dexes seem to be gone too, we'll have to see.
I wouldn't mind Wolf Guard on bikes disappearing if it means a buff to TWC. What I don't want to see is Wolf Guard disappear in general. Let them stay on foot or have access to jump packs maybe?
Maybe that's redundant as well with TWC.
I just really want TWC to be a scary center piece to the army again.
Twc and wolf guard on bikes fill different rolls. Wolfguard are a ranged unit, thunderwolves are close combat. Wolfguard with storm shields and storm bolters are stupid fast and just amazing at wiping infantry out, thunderwolves are tougher, but able to put out a stupid level of cc attacks vs infantry.
They can be kitted out to kill the same things but they are done in different ways.
phydaux wrote: Are we still expecting to see the codex this month?
No official announcements yet. A few independent stores have said it will go up for pre-order on the 25th (so presumably released on the first Saturday of September).
Whether they are accurate and have jumped the gun or if they are just making assumptions remains to be seen.
1) There will be a large announcement for what is coming for Space Wolves and Orks two weekends from now at Warhammerfest in London, I believe it is on the 18th of August. This is where they've been waiting to do a big reveal for new models. Maybe a Russ reveal, Prime Ork Ghazkull, etc, and it'll come out in mid to late September or even October. GSC in November then and a big Chaos December again. Maybe it will be the new Armageddon Campaign rumored earlier as well?
2) It just gets announced on the 25th as the rumor above states, with just a codex and some primaris upgrade sprues and we'll have it by the first weekend of September.
Sadly option 2 is looking more likely. Without a lot of rumors... option 1 is only feeling likely now if either GW has gotten better at keeping a lid on things or they've been the ones leaking previously on purpose for hype. In this case there wouldn't be a reason to do that if you're doing a big surprise reveal at an event.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Azuza001 wrote: Twc and wolf guard on bikes fill different rolls. Wolfguard are a ranged unit, thunderwolves are close combat. Wolfguard with storm shields and storm bolters are stupid fast and just amazing at wiping infantry out, thunderwolves are tougher, but able to put out a stupid level of cc attacks vs infantry.
They can be kitted out to kill the same things but they are done in different ways.
While true, I must admit I do not like bikers in general. Especially in the Space Wolf army. TWC feel themey for me but bikers really only fit in White Scars or Dark Angels in my opinion. I would prefer a tighter focus on what Space Wolves are supposed to be good at, because currently we're OK at multiple things and not great at anything. That could just be me being bitter with my Index force getting wrecked so often though haha.
Tyranid, CSM, Novamarines and Tomb Kings player, here.
Existing rulings, made to clarify Hive Tyrants and Daemonic riders and Dreadnoughts, mean that if Wolf Guard Bikers are absent from your codex, you’ll still be able to field them from the Index. If they’re present with cut down wargear options, you’ll still be able to use the Index options (at Codex-CA prices).
Also, heavily Squatted Fantasy units have been given tournament-legal rules in Sigmar 2.0. So, your WG Bikers might not always be able to effectively dual-wield Storm Bolters, but they’re going to be viable for the foreseeable - and unlikely to end up completely lost in the medium-long term.
See, i dont mind bikers. I like my wolf guard on bikes. I think they fit better than skyclaws. Real wolves dont like to have their paws off the ground so to speak lol.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: Sadly option 2 is looking more likely. Without a lot of rumors... option 1 is only feeling likely now if either GW has gotten better at keeping a lid on things or they've been the ones leaking previously on purpose for hype. In this case there wouldn't be a reason to do that if you're doing a big surprise reveal at an event.
Well the thing is, they have absolutely gotten better at keeping the lid on rumors. Only credible rumors these days come from GW themselves. Rumors by so called "industry experts" or whatever don't really bear any weight and more often than not are complete bovine gak. If they want to make a big reveal at a show then chances are nobody knows about it before that. Sure they have teased previous primarchs or big releases way ahead of time, but who's to say that is a pattern?
That said, I'm not holding my breath, I just want my books.
I think they have absolutely gotten better at keeping the lid on rumours to be honest. The only thing that seems to be coming up these days is stuff that they leak themselves. I get the feeling that if Wolves were only to be getting a crappy upgrade sprue and codex its the sort of thing they would be talking about more openly in order to appease those of us panting for a codex. Everyone here would be howling with joy if they just gave us a date, rather than feeling like we are barking up the wrong tree (Ill stop with the doggy puns now!).
I think we are going to get something big coming with our codex. Just a hunch, but based on the fact that they could have released us with the other non compliant codexs (DA, BA) with no fuss means to me they have something planned. Wether that be Russ, or a couple of SW themed Primaris Units I don't know. Part of me hopes for Russ. I would be saving my pennies up to get him ASAP as I think he is an awesome character, with a lot more depth than people give him credit for. I am also hoping Ulrik the Slayer gets some cool special rules, as I think he is one of the most dangerous Space Wolves out there, something not reflected currently IMHO.
BrianDavion wrote: my gut feeling tis they're keeping mum so as to ensure we talk about kill tem and then Adeptus Titanicus.
Very much so. They want the hype train at full speed for each new release as it hits the shelves. In the mid noughties, quarterly release schedules often got leaked by LGSs and this resulted in people saving their money for stuff they knew was coming down the line rather than spending right now on the newest releases.
BrianDavion wrote: my gut feeling tis they're keeping mum so as to ensure we talk about kill tem and then Adeptus Titanicus.
Very much so. They want the hype train at full speed for each new release as it hits the shelves. In the mid noughties, quarterly release schedules often got leaked by LGSs and this resulted in people saving their money for stuff they knew was coming down the line rather than spending right now on the newest releases.
yeah I don't blame em, also some big con is on the 18th (warhammerfest?) which is about the date AT is finally out of the gate, it makes sense to release info on Orks and Space Wolves then and only then.
BrianDavion wrote: my gut feeling tis they're keeping mum so as to ensure we talk about kill tem and then Adeptus Titanicus.
Very much so. They want the hype train at full speed for each new release as it hits the shelves. In the mid noughties, quarterly release schedules often got leaked by LGSs and this resulted in people saving their money for stuff they knew was coming down the line rather than spending right now on the newest releases.
yeah I don't blame em, also some big con is on the 18th (warhammerfest?) which is about the date AT is finally out of the gate, it makes sense to release info on Orks and Space Wolves then and only then.
Sadly I think a version of this happens, The big reveal is a GSC V Wolves mini box ala Forgebane with Wolves getting Primaris Wolves Sprues plus a Primaris Wolf Priest as the Character, fighting against new GSC stuff thats already been stated to be before the codex, Use the rest of the fest to hype Orks and GSC while Wolves get the shaft with a HQ character, Primaris Sprue and the standard dice
What's the source for the primaries priest?
As long as the codex is decent I wouldn't mind not getting many new kits. I still have enough unbu8lt and unpainted stuff lying around even after 24 years
I just hope that we don't get access to vanilla marine stuff like stalker/Hunter or the fliers. I would never use them but the completionist in me would want 3 of each
I love the current wolf priest and use him with jumppack regularly to buff my outflanking wulfen. I think I would also use a primaris priest if true. Sounds good to me.
a Primaris Wolf Preist makes a lot of sense TBH. most of the space marines command units are more or less interchangable but the space wolves combine chaplain and apocathary into one unit and thus would benifit from getting a model for that, more so then a leuitenant. (although it'd be nice to see GW put the DI Lts into a box so you can buy those)
They stick a mostly dead marine in a dreadnought sarcophagus and, over the centuries, the flaw in that marine's geneseed becomes manifest, resulting in him succumbing to the curse of the wulfen and becoming a giant metal snarling beast. The iron priests could try yanking the sarcophagus to defuse the issue, but a pragmatic Wolf Lord probably said "Y'know, I could find a use for five tons of crazy on the battlefield." Therefore, wulfen dreadnought.
Or, more likely, someone at GW went: "Guys! Wulfen. Dreadnought." And everyone else was drunk enough to think it a good idea without closely examining the idea
What a load of ass,the kits have one small wolf token added on to them, the battle leader is the same as ba and da ones yet we get our codex 8 months later, you can bet if it’s garbage there won’t be changes in chapter approved because lol not enough time
Throw in where supposed to be impressed with different types of terminators when all types of terminators have been trash all of 8th, and the idea that we need more focus or more wulfen units is a joke
Shinymarine wrote: What a load of ass,the kits have one small wolf token added on to them, the battle leader is the same as ba and da ones yet we get our codex 8 months later, you can bet if it’s garbage there won’t be changes in chapter approved because lol not enough time
Throw in where supposed to be impressed with different types of terminators when all types of terminators have been trash all of 8th, and the idea that we need more focus or more wulfen units is a joke
perhaps wait until you know what the stratigiums are before declaring it garbarge? besides what did you expect? I'd hoped for some new primaris but..
Wulfen dreadnoughts was entirely the wrong direction to go in the new units department. Rules wise, if it doesnt have an invul save, i cant see it being useful, as fast as things die this edition.
Apart from that it looks like primaris will simply be similar to existing units judging from pack markings. Blood claws could be interesting in primaris version, with two attacks base. Everything else sounds like i wont be spending money, and that wulfen is still the go-to unit, delivered on the hunt or in a flyer.
Northern85Star wrote: Wulfen dreadnoughts was entirely the wrong direction to go in the new units department. Rules wise, if it doesnt have an invul save, i cant see it being useful, as fast as things die this edition.
Apart from that it looks like primaris will simply be similar to existing units judging from pack markings. Blood claws could be interesting in primaris version, with two attacks base. Everything else sounds like i wont be spending money, and that wulfen is still the go-to unit, delivered on the hunt or in a flyer.
we'll have to see, as for wulfen dreads, that depends, if wulfen dreads get all the normal options of a space wolf dread you're talking the potential to have an axe and sheild combo. could be pretty potent then.
Shinymarine wrote: What a load of ass,the kits have one small wolf token added on to them, the battle leader is the same as ba and da ones yet we get our codex 8 months later, you can bet if it’s garbage there won’t be changes in chapter approved because lol not enough time
Throw in where supposed to be impressed with different types of terminators when all types of terminators have been trash all of 8th, and the idea that we need more focus or more wulfen units is a joke
perhaps wait until you know what the stratigiums are before declaring it garbarge? besides what did you expect? I'd hoped for some new primaris but..
I didn't call it garbage, but I'm not exactly hopeful, the other marine dex's have all been one trick pony's mainly because the stratagems are bland,chapter tactics not applying to tanks/flyers like everybody else gets,throw in overcosted units. I wasn't expecting much but currently trying to justify why this is dropping in August instead of December last year is a hard sell
Shinymarine wrote: What a load of ass,the kits have one small wolf token added on to them, the battle leader is the same as ba and da ones yet we get our codex 8 months later, you can bet if it’s garbage there won’t be changes in chapter approved because lol not enough time
Throw in where supposed to be impressed with different types of terminators when all types of terminators have been trash all of 8th, and the idea that we need more focus or more wulfen units is a joke
perhaps wait until you know what the stratigiums are before declaring it garbarge? besides what did you expect? I'd hoped for some new primaris but..
I didn't call it garbage, but I'm not exactly hopeful, the other marine dex's have all been one trick pony's mainly because the stratagems are bland,chapter tactics not applying to tanks/flyers like everybody else gets,throw in overcosted units. I wasn't expecting much but currently trying to justify why this is dropping in August instead of December last year is a hard sell
Holy gak clicked on this thread expecting excitement about new Wolves coming (I am), and instead see people bitching about the new Dex being too weak and a one trick pony... Before it's even released.
Great job. You're everything that's wrong with the 40k community these days.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here's a thought - They have to release a Space Wolves codex with the same flaws that vanilla/BA/DA have, then "fix" all the SM codexes all at once in Chapter Approved.
Basically releasing an intentionally flawed product and then invalidating it with fixes three months later.
Think you guys missed the wolves might be the 1st fixed chapter with chapter/codex wide traits.
Thats a big step in the right direction and will probably mean a chapter approved fix for the other chapters.
COLD CASH wrote: Think you guys missed the wolves might be the 1st fixed chapter with chapter/codex wide traits.
Thats a big step in the right direction and will probably mean a chapter approved fix for the other chapters.
If the Wolves CT is about combat like getting counter attack / heroic intervention for everyone or ferious charge equvilant things, then they are meaningless for SW non dread vehicles anyway because those vehicles want to shoot and not combat. However, it would mean a lot for other Space Marine Chapters with other CT that buffs not just combat, especially the Ultramarine, Salamander, Ravenguard, and maybe Dark Angels.
On the other hand. If the GW just copy paste "only infantry, biker and Dreadnought get the Chapter Tactic" it would be very ridiculous as a rule because it excludes the famous Thurnder Wolf Cavalry.
Codex: Space Wolves
Next week also sees the highly anticipated Space Wolves codex land – and we think it’s safe to say the wait has been well worth it. This new codex brings the sons of Russ up-to-date with the new edition, offering them powerful faction-wide rules, Stratagems and all the great stuff you’ve come to expect from this generation of codexes.
As well as bringing Primaris Space Marines fully into the fold, the codex is packed with tweaks and improvements to every part of your army. There are even some brand-new datasheets, giving you never-seen-before options like Wulfen Dreadnoughts or Wolf Guard Terminators clad in Cataphractii and Tartaros pattern armour. We’ll be previewing the new codex throughout the next week with a closer look at what it means for you and your army, so stay tuned!
For those truly dedicated to the service of the Allfather and Fenris, the magnificent Collector’s Edition is for you. Strictly limited in number and featuring a unique soft-touch cover and a black ribbon marker, make sure to get your copy before they run out. All fans, meanwhile, will want to pick up a set of Datacards to keep track of the various Stratagems and psychic powers your army can use, while a set of special Space Wolves Dice feature claw marks in place of pips in a bit of ferocious flair.
I missed the part where they said vehicles are getting a chapter tactic. "Powerful faction-wide rules" doesn't necessarily mean that at all.
Codex: Space Wolves
Next week also sees the highly anticipated Space Wolves codex land – and we think it’s safe to say the wait has been well worth it. This new codex brings the sons of Russ up-to-date with the new edition, offering them powerful faction-wide rules, Stratagems and all the great stuff you’ve come to expect from this generation of codexes.
As well as bringing Primaris Space Marines fully into the fold, the codex is packed with tweaks and improvements to every part of your army. There are even some brand-new datasheets, giving you never-seen-before options like Wulfen Dreadnoughts or Wolf Guard Terminators clad in Cataphractii and Tartaros pattern armour. We’ll be previewing the new codex throughout the next week with a closer look at what it means for you and your army, so stay tuned!
For those truly dedicated to the service of the Allfather and Fenris, the magnificent Collector’s Edition is for you. Strictly limited in number and featuring a unique soft-touch cover and a black ribbon marker, make sure to get your copy before they run out. All fans, meanwhile, will want to pick up a set of Datacards to keep track of the various Stratagems and psychic powers your army can use, while a set of special Space Wolves Dice feature claw marks in place of pips in a bit of ferocious flair.
I missed the part where they said vehicles are getting a chapter tactic. "Powerful faction-wide rules" doesn't necessarily mean that at all.
yeah, this. that could just mean something like deployment bonuses etc. such as with Custodes, they are advertised as having "powerful faction wide" stuff, but their detachment bonus doesn't extend to tanks as well
COLD CASH wrote: Faction wide rules? you seriously trying to tell me that is what you have stated above get real and stop trying to be a jerk!
we're not we're just tempering expectations. the absolute WORST thing you can do is drive yur expectations up insanely high and then get dissappointed because you mearly got "very good"
Stereotypical internet bickering and miscommunication aside for a moment...
I wont be surprised if we don't get any legitimate new models. We're an older chapter (the very first codex ever lol) and already have a great deal of awesome (opinion) and unique models for our range. A Primaris upgrade sprue, if we all click our heals and dream of wolves, maybe even a hint at leman russ's return.
I am 100% most curious about the chapter tactics. SW used to be decently punchy, but not like BA or Khorne. Grey hunters have almost always been the peak of space marine troops in each edition they have been in. I very much hope that continues, mostly because I have 50 of them.
All that aside, the burning question on all our minds....
Guys you really need to tone down the Doom & Gloom, the book isn't even out yet. I admit I'm slightly annoyed as well if we only get the BA/DA treatment 7 months later than them, but let's just see the full release before passing judgement, okay?
Wulfen dread is probably not even a new kit, you could use the Murderfang face and put either frost claws or shield+axe on him and call it done. I love the dreadnought kit and if I can make it a total assault beast by making it Wulfen I'm not going to complain.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and from what I can see, the SW upgrade sprue is just a single chainsword and no power weapons? That is really a damn shame.
gwarsh41 wrote: Stereotypical internet bickering and miscommunication aside for a moment...
I wont be surprised if we don't get any legitimate new models. We're an older chapter (the very first codex ever lol) and already have a great deal of awesome (opinion) and unique models for our range. A Primaris upgrade sprue, if we all click our heals and dream of wolves, maybe even a hint at leman russ's return.
I am 100% most curious about the chapter tactics. SW used to be decently punchy, but not like BA or Khorne. Grey hunters have almost always been the peak of space marine troops in each edition they have been in. I very much hope that continues, mostly because I have 50 of them.
All that aside, the burning question on all our minds....
Will drop pods ever be useful again?!?!?
Oh lord I hope so. Allow drop pods to put down dreads and they immediately become useful again IMO. Also allowing pods to ignore T1 beta rule restriction would be nice.
Weazel wrote: Guys you really need to tone down the Doom & Gloom, the book isn't even out yet. I admit I'm slightly annoyed as well if we only get the BA/DA treatment 7 months later than them, but let's just see the full release before passing judgement, okay?
Thank you, this should be the most exciting time of the edition for us with information leaking, and some people here are too busy downplaying the dex before it even drops.
Weazel wrote: Guys you really need to tone down the Doom & Gloom, the book isn't even out yet. I admit I'm slightly annoyed as well if we only get the BA/DA treatment 7 months later than them, but let's just see the full release before passing judgement, okay?
Wulfen dread is probably not even a new kit, you could use the Murderfang face and put either frost claws or shield+axe on him and call it done. I love the dreadnought kit and if I can make it a total assault beast by making it Wulfen I'm not going to complain.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and from what I can see, the SW upgrade sprue is just a single chainsword and no power weapons? That is really a damn shame.
if the wulfen dread is basicly just a dread with some special rules I'll be totally happy if it can take the shield. presumably a wulfen dread will have some close combat buffs after asll
If it cant take the shield but just has a +5 FNP like Björn, then i suspect it will be bad, not being a character. Björn is already pretty fragile if he isnt screened. Then again, it all depends on pts cost.
Northern85Star wrote: If it cant take the shield but just has a +5 FNP like Björn, then i suspect it will be bad, not being a character. Björn is already pretty fragile if he isnt screened. Then again, it all depends on pts cost.
Blahahaha, in this edition GW tends to give marine cool looking stuffs an ridiculously overcosted prices for what they can do on the tabletop, look at Land Raiders, Wolf Guard Terminators, Redemptor Dreads and Space Marine Centurions, so expect that Wuflen Dread being T7 Sv3+ 8W 5+FnP no inv and costs 300+pts. Blahahahaha.
However, if it is reasonably costed for what they do. I won't wait to purchase it as my 5th Space Wolves specific Dreadnought.
Hrm... I am waiting for the full release until I cast judgement.
I just wanted to add my two cents about the "wulfen" dread. Perhaps that will just be the new version of our sword and board dread, but make him faster because he is a wulfen along with some extra new rules?
It allows Games Workshop to give us a special dreadnought that isn't a character instead of just giving a generic Venerable Dread a sword/board combo. I am hoping it moves 9" or something and can advance & charge. That will make it worth it in my book.
My guess: Wulfen dread simply replaces the Murderfang datasheet using the same model. Will no longer be a character but might get Curse of the Wulfen buff aura and the other Wulfen rules (strike again when killed, re-roll charges, 5 +FNP). And we will be really lucky if we can get other weapons than Murderfangs claws. Board'n'Axe MAYBE.
Ragnar69 wrote: My guess: Wulfen dread simply replaces the Murderfang datasheet using the same model. Will no longer be a character but might get Curse of the Wulfen buff aura and the other Wulfen rules (strike again when killed, re-roll charges, 5 +FNP). And we will be really lucky if we can get other weapons than Murderfangs claws. Board'n'Axe MAYBE.
Don't squash my one hope. lol! A fast moving sword/board wulfen dreadnought would be pretty sweet!
In my head, it would let us use the Venerable dread for what it's meant to be. A steadier firing platform for guns.
Best scenario would be for it to replace the venerable sword and board dread, but would GW make that model obsolete? I doubt it, there is no money in doing so. I think the wulfen dread will have a much higher dmg output, faster moving - at the small price of dying before it gets there
Northern85Star wrote: Best scenario would be for it to replace the venerable sword and board dread, but would GW make that model obsolete? I doubt it, there is no money in doing so. I think the wulfen dread will have a much higher dmg output, faster moving - at the small price of dying before it gets there
I assume they would just apply the datasheet of the sword and board dread to the Wulfen dread. Upon reflection I think people may be right about our character dread just being replaced by the wulfen dread.
So... it looks like I will have to recreate the thread this weekend. It all goes up for sale this weekend. Natfka says it's being released... not just a preorder period? The prices look fairly reasonable/good.
What does everyone think of the new dice we're getting? Or the additional 3 psychic powers we'll get? Just reformatted 7th ones?
Very poor design choice on the dices. Imagine rolling ten of those, you will have to get used to them to figure the result quickly. I see a side with a skull and one with a wolf, will you have to agree with your opponent which one is 1 and which is 6 beforehand? XD
Northern85Star wrote: Very poor design choice on the dices. Imagine rolling ten of those, you will have to get used to them to figure the result quickly. I see a side with a skull and one with a wolf, will you have to agree with your opponent which one is 1 and which is 6 beforehand? XD
Hah, that's funny because I liked them. They look a lot easier to read than the Blood Angel dice and have the same kind of style with deciding between what's a 1 and what's a 6. For Games Workshop dice they aren't toobad.
Weazel wrote: Guys you really need to tone down the Doom & Gloom, the book isn't even out yet. I admit I'm slightly annoyed as well if we only get the BA/DA treatment 7 months later than them, but let's just see the full release before passing judgement, okay?
Thank you, this should be the most exciting time of the edition for us with information leaking, and some people here are too busy downplaying the dex before it even drops.
I’m not downplaying anything, I just don’t want somebody walking in here and thinking that a rule is confirmed when we don’t really know what’s up yet. I’m personally pretty optimistic about this codex.
On the Wulfen Dread, my hope is that it can advance and charge and re-rolls charges. That would make it a nice compliment to the slower Blizz Dreads.
Weazel wrote: Guys you really need to tone down the Doom & Gloom, the book isn't even out yet. I admit I'm slightly annoyed as well if we only get the BA/DA treatment 7 months later than them, but let's just see the full release before passing judgement, okay?
Thank you, this should be the most exciting time of the edition for us with information leaking, and some people here are too busy downplaying the dex before it even drops.
I’m not downplaying anything, I just don’t want somebody walking in here and thinking that a rule is confirmed when we don’t really know what’s up yet. I’m personally pretty optimistic about this codex.
On the Wulfen Dread, my hope is that it can advance and charge and re-rolls charges. That would make it a nice compliment to the slower Blizz Dreads.
I meant more ShinyMarine and maybe one other
Automatically Appended Next Post: anyone know where I can keep up with the rumors for the dex?
Changing the subject slightly, I discovered earlier today well putting together some Primaris Marines, that the collar leaves eneugh room to put the wolf head helmet that you get on the SW upgrade sprue and SW pack box.
thought I'd mention it in case anyone was considering snagging tooth and claw but wanted to wolf out the primaris a bit more
anyone know where I can keep up with the rumors for the dex?
I haven’t heard any yet. Saw this on B&C though:
Not really new, but maybe confirmation that WGPL is a box set exclusive.
I'm assuming it is. A bit annoying, Blood and Dark angels get their Lt seperately, we have to buy ours in a box, not a huge issue though, if you're using primaris Marines the stuff in the box is pretty iconic,
COLD CASH wrote: Faction wide rules? you seriously trying to tell me that is what you have stated above get real and stop trying to be a jerk!
we're not we're just tempering expectations. the absolute WORST thing you can do is drive yur expectations up insanely high and then get dissappointed because you mearly got "very good"
My wife does this in every area of her life. she jacks her expectations through the roof over every little thing, so that nothing can ever be good enough, and she lives in a constant state of disappointment.
COLD CASH wrote: Faction wide rules? you seriously trying to tell me that is what you have stated above get real and stop trying to be a jerk!
we're not we're just tempering expectations. the absolute WORST thing you can do is drive yur expectations up insanely high and then get dissappointed because you mearly got "very good"
My wife does this in every area of her life. she jacks her expectations through the roof over every little thing, so that nothing can ever be good enough, and she lives in a constant state of disappointment.
I can belive it, some people are like that, I had friends like that, every new video game was gonna be awesome, every FPS was gonna be the best ever, every new MMO was going to be the "WoW killer" etc.
I want SW to be good, but can't really see how it could happen at their current prices, which are for the most part consistant with other Marines, so I don't think they'll get much lower. We don't have scout troops, which means our battillions are going to be full of 13 point Marines. This doesn't work for any other Marine chapter, and I don't think free chainswords are going to be enough to tip the balance.
jcd386 wrote: I want SW to be good, but can't really see how it could happen at their current prices, which are for the most part consistant with other Marines, so I don't think they'll get much lower. We don't have scout troops, which means our battillions are going to be full of 13 point Marines. This doesn't work for any other Marine chapter, and I don't think free chainswords are going to be enough to tip the balance.
Well you know the drill, 180pts for an IG battalion, +5cp. Wolves are pretty much a forward force anyway so the IG guys are pretty good at keeping home objectives. It sucks to be more or less forced into soup but that's how the cookie crumbles.
I dunno they could give space wolves crap strats, relics and chapter tacs well increasing prices across the board
but yeah proably will become better
The strats are going to be the main focus for me, as a non-SW player.
This is GWs opportunity to potentially fix how bad the standard Marine stratagems are and give us an insight into potential SM stratagems 2.0 going forward.
However, it could also mean that the SWs will get the same copy and paste stratagems and a few of their own, indicating that GW believe Space Marine stratagems as a whole are “in a good place”.
This is GWs opportunity to potentially fix how bad the standard Marine stratagems are and give us an insight into potential SM stratagems 2.0 going forward.
However, it could also mean that the SWs will get the same copy and paste stratagems and a few of their own, indicating that GW believe Space Marine stratagems as a whole are “in a good place”.
It wouldn't necessarily mean either of those things. They could have better stratagems just because they think the army needs it more, or they thought of more creative interactions, or just wanted to deliver abilities thematic to the army.
They could also do the copy paste not meaning they think SM strats are perfect, but just to keep to the precedent they've set for them this edition.
This is GWs opportunity to potentially fix how bad the standard Marine stratagems are and give us an insight into potential SM stratagems 2.0 going forward.
However, it could also mean that the SWs will get the same copy and paste stratagems and a few of their own, indicating that GW believe Space Marine stratagems as a whole are “in a good place”.
It wouldn't necessarily mean either of those things. They could have better stratagems just because they think the army needs it more, or they thought of more creative interactions, or just wanted to deliver abilities thematic to the army.
They could also do the copy paste not meaning they think SM strats are perfect, but just to keep to the precedent they've set for them this edition.
this, it's clear to me that GW wants to avoid the "Space Marines +1" problem that was endemic to other editions various Marine codices. Hence why when codex Space Marines came out they where fairly clear that "the new points costs for Inceptor squads are something EVERYONE can use" etc
This is GWs opportunity to potentially fix how bad the standard Marine stratagems are and give us an insight into potential SM stratagems 2.0 going forward.
However, it could also mean that the SWs will get the same copy and paste stratagems and a few of their own, indicating that GW believe Space Marine stratagems as a whole are “in a good place”.
It wouldn't necessarily mean either of those things. They could have better stratagems just because they think the army needs it more, or they thought of more creative interactions, or just wanted to deliver abilities thematic to the army.
They could also do the copy paste not meaning they think SM strats are perfect, but just to keep to the precedent they've set for them this edition.
this, it's clear to me that GW wants to avoid the "Space Marines +1" problem that was endemic to other editions various Marine codices. Hence why when codex Space Marines came out they where fairly clear that "the new points costs for Inceptor squads are something EVERYONE can use" etc
I agree somewhat that they need to try and keep Vanilla, BA, DA and SW on a similar footing, but, I also think that this is one of the few opportunities they have to introduce change. They may of course just wait for Chapter Approved or the next big FAQ, but that’d then involve a re-print of a (by then) newish codex with the updates.
To me, it’d be the logical way to introduce a change, but, yeah, logic and GW don’t always go hand in hand when it comes to making things easy for the players.
Well they may just do any of these things. I'm just saying don't look too far into it, or think it means anything at all concerning design plans for power armour as a whole, because there's no way of knowing what influences their design here.
COLD CASH wrote: Think you guys missed the wolves might be the 1st fixed chapter with chapter/codex wide traits.
Thats a big step in the right direction and will probably mean a chapter approved fix for the other chapters.
If the Wolves CT is about combat like getting counter attack / heroic intervention for everyone or ferious charge equvilant things, then they are meaningless for SW non dread vehicles anyway because those vehicles want to shoot and not combat. However, it would mean a lot for other Space Marine Chapters with other CT that buffs not just combat, especially the Ultramarine, Salamander, Ravenguard, and maybe Dark Angels.
On the other hand. If the GW just copy paste "only infantry, biker and Dreadnought get the Chapter Tactic" it would be very ridiculous as a rule because it excludes the famous Thurnder Wolf Cavalry.
I main CSM and all of my mounted characters lack Legion traits due to it likewise being infantry, biker, Helbrute only. Buuuut they’re Index units that GW don’t fully support with rules and haven’t made models for in a good decade, whereas the similar ommission of Legion trait for the well supported Daemon Prince was faq’d. Soooo the SW cavalry unit, being something of a flagship plastic kit, is *probably* going to get included in the Chapter trait list. Fingers crossed for y’all.
COLD CASH wrote: Think you guys missed the wolves might be the 1st fixed chapter with chapter/codex wide traits.
Thats a big step in the right direction and will probably mean a chapter approved fix for the other chapters.
If the Wolves CT is about combat like getting counter attack / heroic intervention for everyone or ferious charge equvilant things, then they are meaningless for SW non dread vehicles anyway because those vehicles want to shoot and not combat. However, it would mean a lot for other Space Marine Chapters with other CT that buffs not just combat, especially the Ultramarine, Salamander, Ravenguard, and maybe Dark Angels.
On the other hand. If the GW just copy paste "only infantry, biker and Dreadnought get the Chapter Tactic" it would be very ridiculous as a rule because it excludes the famous Thurnder Wolf Cavalry.
I main CSM and all of my mounted characters lack Legion traits due to it likewise being infantry, biker, Helbrute only. Buuuut they’re Index units that GW don’t fully support with rules and haven’t made models for in a good decade, whereas the similar ommission of Legion trait for the well supported Daemon Prince was faq’d. Soooo the SW cavalry unit, being something of a flagship plastic kit, is *probably* going to get included in the Chapter trait list. Fingers crossed for y’all.
It would be simple eneugh to add in "this chapter tactic applies to all infantry, Bikes, dreadnoughts and Cavalry"
COLD CASH wrote: Think you guys missed the wolves might be the 1st fixed chapter with chapter/codex wide traits.
Thats a big step in the right direction and will probably mean a chapter approved fix for the other chapters.
If the Wolves CT is about combat like getting counter attack / heroic intervention for everyone or ferious charge equvilant things, then they are meaningless for SW non dread vehicles anyway because those vehicles want to shoot and not combat. However, it would mean a lot for other Space Marine Chapters with other CT that buffs not just combat, especially the Ultramarine, Salamander, Ravenguard, and maybe Dark Angels.
On the other hand. If the GW just copy paste "only infantry, biker and Dreadnought get the Chapter Tactic" it would be very ridiculous as a rule because it excludes the famous Thurnder Wolf Cavalry.
I main CSM and all of my mounted characters lack Legion traits due to it likewise being infantry, biker, Helbrute only. Buuuut they’re Index units that GW don’t fully support with rules and haven’t made models for in a good decade, whereas the similar ommission of Legion trait for the well supported Daemon Prince was faq’d. Soooo the SW cavalry unit, being something of a flagship plastic kit, is *probably* going to get included in the Chapter trait list. Fingers crossed for y’all.
It would be simple eneugh to add in "this chapter tactic applies to all infantry, Bikes, dreadnoughts and Cavalry"
It’d be even easier to just remove the restriction from the CSM and SM books.
Removing that restriction should have been in a FAQ honestly. I do not think it's worth an addition in Chapter approved.
"With the evolving nature of our edition and to keep Space Marine legions on par with other factions that also have their Codex now, Chapter traits are now an ability for all units in a Space Marine force with the Adeptus Astartes and <Chapter> keywords."
ArmchairArbiter wrote: Removing that restriction should have been in a FAQ honestly. I do not think it's worth an addition in Chapter approved.
"With the evolving nature of our edition and to keep Space Marine legions on par with other factions that also have their Codex now, Chapter traits are now an ability for all units in a Space Marine force with the Adeptus Astartes and <Chapter> keywords."
There and done.
Woah now, we can't have you finding simple and incredibly efficient solutions to problems now can we? Do you have any idea how hard it is to type up a sentence and put it in an FAQ? It's borderline impossible! Your demands will bankrupt us!
Dakka Wolf wrote: I'm not religious but I will pray we just get access to a "generic" wulfen dread and don't lose Murderfang.
me too, IMHO there's no more reason to remove Murderfang just because we have a wulfen dread then there is to remove Bjorn because we have a generic venerable dread
Counter charge is already given to at least 2 armies, I would hardly call it interesting. As far as I know, ours is 100% unique.
The big takeaway is that powerfist/thunder hammers get no penalty to hit. TWC get the chapter tactic too. Lone wolves in power armor might suddenly be very useful with the 6" intervention.
Seems really good to be honest. As Gwarsh said - thunderhammers all over!
Heroic Intervention as it stands is insane - increasing it to 6" is going to mean some crazy movement options for Characters - being able to bypass Overwatch and meander into combat is really solid.
As a side note - the twin swinging modes on the Fenrisian Great Axe are a great change, presumably that'll apply to the Axe + Shield Ven Dread too.
Stop the whining, we get murderfang AND wulfen dread.
+1 to hit in first round of CC and 6" heroic intervention. Time to put thunderhammers on everything!
Somehow, I feel like predicting a points decrease in TH/SS Wulfen is coming in this codex. Just saying
And, anyone taking bets on whether Smashwolf will overtake Smashcaptain?
It’s a shame that they cut off all the abilities section for the Wulfen Dread. I’m guessing it’ll be around the 140-150 point mark based on it being pretty much the same as a normal Dreadnought, except having a base move of 8”. (based on the current cost of an axe and shield combo costing 70 points).
I’m also surprised at the changes to the Great Axe abilities, and I’m also a little surprised that it is still technically 2 points of strength lower than a normal Dreadnought in combat.
Can only just see, but, we can see that the Dread gets to re-roll failed charges with “Murderlust” and it also has the expected explodes rule.
gwarsh41 wrote: Counter charge is already given to at least 2 armies, I would hardly call it interesting. As far as I know, ours is 100% unique.
The big takeaway is that powerfist/thunder hammers get no penalty to hit. TWC get the chapter tactic too. Lone wolves in power armor might suddenly be very useful with the 6" intervention.
Hammer wulfen hitting on 3s.
I wouldn't count on TWC getting the chapter tactic just yet.
In the other Marines codices, the "Infantry, Dreadnought and Bikers" restriction is listed separately to the Chapter Tactic, so, it's likely it'll still exclude "cavalry".
I zoomed in on the datasheet for the Wulfen dreadnought. Holy gak guys...
You can replace the claw/stormbolter with a stormshield/stormbolter! So Wulfen dread gets the sword/board confirmed! Along with a stormbolter! And you can replace any stormbolter on it with a heavy flamer!
arhurt wrote: They specifically mention that our cavalry and dreads get the tactic in the article! Sounds like our dex is gonna be great guys!
Oops, you're right! I missed that!
Interesting implications for Chaos!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ArmchairArbiter wrote: I zoomed in on the datasheet for the Wulfen dreadnought. Holy gak guys...
You can replace the claw/stormbolter with a stormshield/stormbolter! So Wulfen dread gets the sword/board confirmed! Along with a stormbolter! And you can replace any stormbolter on it with a heavy flamer!
Double check the “Murderlust” ability for me. I see it as re-rolling failed charges.
If I’m honest I’m not overly impressed by the Wulfen Dread right now – will depend on the other abilities it has. I’m expecting big things from the eventual model though!
arhurt wrote: They specifically mention that our cavalry and dreads get the tactic in the article! Sounds like our dex is gonna be great guys!
Oops, you're right! I missed that!
Interesting implications for Chaos!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ArmchairArbiter wrote: I zoomed in on the datasheet for the Wulfen dreadnought. Holy gak guys...
You can replace the claw/stormbolter with a stormshield/stormbolter! So Wulfen dread gets the sword/board confirmed! Along with a stormbolter! And you can replace any stormbolter on it with a heavy flamer!
Double check the “Murderlust” ability for me. I see it as re-rolling failed charges.
If I’m honest I’m not overly impressed by the Wulfen Dread right now – will depend on the other abilities it has. I’m expecting big things from the eventual model though!
How in the seven hells can you read the Murderlust ability?
Do you really expect a new model? I don't think so, it could be easily built with our current kit.
Double check the “Murderlust” ability for me. I see it as re-rolling failed charges.
If I’m honest I’m not overly impressed by the Wulfen Dread right now – will depend on the other abilities it has. I’m expecting big things from the eventual model though!
I'm sorry but I am at work and don't have access to it ATM. However, what does that have to do with what I said? The ability Wulfen get that can effect themselves is to be able to advance and charge. So the wulfen dread is moving a minimum of 9" and charging if it keeps that ability.
The sword/board + heavy flamer alone is worthwhile.
*edit* I see it now! I had to look extra hard at the datasheet. You are correct it looks like it lets us reroll failed charges. But if we're moving/advancing and charging then that's really good! Assuming it does that. Even without that, it's a HUGE leap forward from the ven dread.
Smashlord is unlikely to supplant Slamguinius - Fly is a massive boon for hopping over screens, and the ability to feed them CP to jack up the number of attacks they do is huge too.
A new model for the Wulfen dread seems unlikely - a combination of all the bits in the current Ven Dread / Bjorn / Murderfang kit would make it just fine.
I bought the datasheet into photoshop and adjusted the levesl to read it. Murderfang has the same ability too.
Big takeaway for me on the wulfen dread is you can run 6 axe/shield dreadnoughts if you want to run a spam list.
@Kdash - I'd put money on us getting a stratagem similar to the red thirst one where BA choose a character to become death company at the beginning of the game. Instead we get "mark of the wulfen". The BA advantage is their speed and mobility. I don't think we will be able to match that. However I am willing to bet we will have a character combo that can put out some disgusting damage.
I just zoomed in a lot on the pc and then squinted a bit lol.
What about a Wolf Lord with jump pack, hammer and shield? Hitting on 2’s when it charges.
It will all depend on relics and warlord traits of course, but if there is a way to ignore overwatch, and chances are there will be a way to get increased attacks from a stratagem. The only difference then will be +1 to wound vs 2’s to hit.
This really buffs our frost weapons too in a round-about way. They aren't that much more expensive than regular power weapon stuff but now they'll be hitting more often.
Thunderwolf cav hitting on 2s with frost axes seems pretty sweet.
+1 to hit is straight worse than +1 to wound and BA aren't exactly a powerhouse codex.
I don't want to be a downer here, but this does nothing at all for ven. dreads or characters with non-unwieldy weapons. That alone is a pretty big downside.
I suppose the buffed heroic intervention is meant to make up for this, but I don't think you'll hardly ever actually get to use it in a game against a savvy opponent.
I agree, it is aimed at units with a base 3+ WSimo, with the secondary addition of helping out any characters that take a -1 to hit weapon.
As for the comparison between them and BA, I think I was looking more at the “3 captains and 3 scout battalion” or “3 captain” detachment souped into other imperial lists, as opposed to a pure codex v codex.
The heroic intervention buff is a tool for you to deny board to your opponent. Put a few Lone Wolfs with Thunder hammers spread around the board (assuming points drop) and you can deny a good amount of space!
arhurt wrote: The heroic intervention buff is a tool for you to deny board to your opponent. Put a few Lone Wolfs with Thunder hammers spread around the board (assuming points drop) and you can deny a good amount of space!
I love taking Lone Wolves in casual games but taking one, let alone several, in a competitive games is a pretty big handicap.
I thought we were already a great army in casual games, maybe even too good when taking our unique units. So far I don't see much help in a more competitive environment.
beir wrote: +1 to hit is straight worse than +1 to wound and BA aren't exactly a powerhouse codex.
I don't want to be a downer here, but this does nothing at all for ven. dreads or characters with non-unwieldy weapons. That alone is a pretty big downside.
I suppose the buffed heroic intervention is meant to make up for this, but I don't think you'll hardly ever actually get to use it in a game against a savvy opponent.
I see what you're saying but I will disagree, for the moment. We need to see what we can combine it with strategem/traits/etc. Right now I am very happy with it. Dropping a butt load of blood claws from a stormwolf onto an enemy and they hit on 2's with the +2 attacks from charging/chainsword? That will hurt something more reliably then it did before the codex. The Wolf guard embedded in the unit can use a thunder hammer on a 3 now as well.
It lets us add the variety to our units that is so often spoke of in the lore. Without an in game penalty. I find that pretty cool.
This is great news so far! Wulfen just got better than they already were, TWC got a huge boost and CC characters as well. Wulfen dreads make for an improved sword and board dread. Cant wait to see how thing are costed.
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Justyn wrote: The Wulfen Dreads still have too few attacks for 160 point model.
It has 8 str 6 -3 apdmg 1 attacks, or 4 str 10 -3 apdmgd6 attacks. Huge improvement.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wulf dread can also get two heavy flamers instead of stormbolters, and still wield a blizzard shield and CC weapon!
Ragnar69 wrote: It also pretty much cancels the Wolf Lords aura
How would it do that? It lets you re-roll 1s. 1s are always a fail. It makes our hitting that much more reliable with the big characters who hit on 2s and have thunder hammers. Now the 2s hit and we re-roll the 1s.
Ragnar69 wrote: It also pretty much cancels the Wolf Lords aura
How would it do that? It lets you re-roll 1s. 1s are always a fail. It makes our hitting that much more reliable with the big characters who hit on 2s and have thunder hammers. Now the 2s hit and we re-roll the 1s.
Yes, you are right. I misrememberd the FAQ, I thought modifiers ar3 applied before rerolls trigger.
Ragnar69 wrote: It also pretty much cancels the Wolf Lords aura
How would it do that? It lets you re-roll 1s. 1s are always a fail. It makes our hitting that much more reliable with the big characters who hit on 2s and have thunder hammers. Now the 2s hit and we re-roll the 1s.
Yes, you are right. I misrememberd the FAQ, I thought modifiers ar3 applied before rerolls trigger.
All good buddy. we're all excited and just trying to figure it out!
arhurt wrote: The heroic intervention buff is a tool for you to deny board to your opponent. Put a few Lone Wolfs with Thunder hammers spread around the board (assuming points drop) and you can deny a good amount of space!
I love taking Lone Wolves in casual games but taking one, let alone several, in a competitive games is a pretty big handicap.
We don't know the points cost yet. If the points for PA Lone Wolves is droped to around 40pts nake, and the Terminator Lone Wolves are around 60pts naked, then they will be really good I think.
I love these changes. Bloodclaws will be super effective out of the stormwolves, no longer need lucas for the awsomeness to start. Thunderwolves and wulfen become very effective. Even grey hunters suddenly become pretty effective at assaulting if you need to finish something off.
And i normally run a wolf lord and wolf guard on thunder wolves with thunder hammers anyways, so this becomes big on them as well (like they needed to be more effective at this point.... they already murder anything they hit as it is).
Azuza001 wrote: I love these changes. Bloodclaws will be super effective out of the stormwolves, no longer need lucas for the awsomeness to start. Thunderwolves and wulfen become very effective. Even grey hunters suddenly become pretty effective at assaulting if you need to finish something off.
And i normally run a wolf lord and wolf guard on thunder wolves with thunder hammers anyways, so this becomes big on them as well (like they needed to be more effective at this point.... they already murder anything they hit as it is).
Good point, assuming Lukas keeps his ability. They could be devastating (first shooting plasmas with +1 to hit, then combat with +2! Incentive to fully kit BCs with WGPL and all)
Someone in another thread pointed out that this also helps us against a lot of the built in -1 to hit army stuff. Like plague bearers in chaos daemons? I am not fully familiar with that rule but it was something that had not dawned on me.
Tibs Ironblood wrote: Can you heroic intervene on your own turn? Could pull some sneaky beaky business with that one.
Only after an enemy player has completed all of their charges, including completing all of their 0 declared charges. You can heroically intervene anything within range, regardless of whether or not it charged.
I don't know for sure if you can heroically intervene if the enemy player charges you in your own charge phase (Custodes).
Actually, it doesn't explicitly say that. It just says after your opponent has completed their charge moves.
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I don't know for sure if you can heroically intervene if the enemy player charges you in your own charge phase (Custodes).
It just says charge phase. Doesn't say yours or theirs. Technically that means if your SW Characters end up within 6" of enemy units they can Heroically Intervene in, and not bother charging. I suspect it will get FAQ'd if it becomes a real issue.
Yeah see that is what I am seeing here is that the rule does not specify and this will be a very important rule because of how often it will come up with space wolves. RAW I believe you can do it on your turn because the only qualification is that the enemy has completed their charge moves and that you are within range to heroically intervene. At the end of your charge phase both are possible meaning you could, in theory, move your space wolf character within 6 inches of a character then heroically intervene right into combat and take zero overwatch. It could also be huge for making sure your characters make it into combat alongside your troops.
The exact heroic intervention wording is "After the enemy has completed all of their charge moves." I don't think this is intended to (or actually does) let you charge people without overwatch in your own charge phase, but you can take it to YMDC if you want more elaboration on that.
So thinking about what we know so far. Perhaps power fists would be a good slightly cheaper alternative to hammers if your tight on points. I play a mostly 1k tournaments and below. If I want a high S power weapon for cheaper it may be the fist.
Yeah, the enemy doesnt get a charge move during your turn so they can never get to the end to "complete their charges" to allow you to heroicly intervene. Guys, we are proud space wolves! We dont need to try and make ourselves better than we already are, we already are going to be awsome!
But yeah, this should be discussed in ymdc.
As for power fists, i have started adding them back in to my 10 man tacticals and they have been doing wonderful. For some reason my opponents see the power fist and freak out. Last game vs a tyranid player i had a 10 man squad that got focused down to one guy and the wolf guard battle leader with a powerfist after the hive tyrant hit the squad in cc. Powerfist did 2 wounds back, then i backed out and fired 2 longfang squads at it killimg it. Next turn enemy fired 4 warriors at the 2 guys killing one. Powerfist went full wolf, charged in, killed a warrior. Next turn he survived and killed another warrior during their turn. Then he killed a 3rd one on my turn then died. Point was he survived a lot and definatly made his points back, he became a "i don't care, that one guy has to die!" For my opponent.
Hidden power fists. Still worth it in 8th edition.
I'm thinking I'll add a wolf guard leader to my troops with TH/SS and put the fist on the Sgt. then charge everything that needs smushing. Hopefully there is some cool strats.
Can you heroic intervene on your own turn? Could pull some sneaky beaky business with that one.
You have to be charged.
At the moment this is not entirely true. You can't heroically intervene during your own turn. However you don't need to be charged to do it during your opponent's turn. Once your opponent has completed their charge moves you can go ahead and intervene into a unit that's within 3 (or in wolves' case 6) inches even if that unit didn't charge.
I hope they include something that helps with thunderwolf cavalry's movement and charging, currently the cavalry keyword is a huge hindrance because they can't go up ruins or move through walls, so it's quite trivial to keep thunderwolves out of close combat, same goes for the dreads. The reason that the blood angel smash captain is so powerful is because it's a single infantry sized model that can go anywhere, hit anything and murder it like a heat seeking missile
I suspect that our current most powerful combo of wulfens in stormwolf will continue to be our go-to army core if everything just get cheaper
Outflanking aggressors have the potential to be powerful because their powerfists will now be hitting on 3+, so for their relatively low point cost they will be clearing chaff and punching vehicles if not dealt with. They are still fragile as hell, but definitely the strongest aggressor variant.
Here's hoping for a way to regain command points
Unless we see a strategem at the same level blood angel's 3D6 charge or psychic powers that straight up cheats like soulburst and warptime, I don't think SW will bring any meta changes, which is fine by me, 8th edition by its nature doesn't favor marines.
Practically, there’s nothing but wulfen dreads and Björn in the SW dreadnought department now. Who’s ever going to field a normal or venerable dread? xD
So, with the newly released "Chapter Tactic" for Wolves, I'm thinking Blood Claws just became hilarious. And TWC, depending on point cost or other unseen tweaks, are probably going to be pretty solid too. Even humble Gray Hunters with chainswords are going to have some serious teeth in CC. And I'm also wondering if with the new longer range for Heroic Intervention, we should field our own SmashWolfLords with jump packs! 6" HI range plus the FLY keyword seems pretty good. Maybe not as good on offense as the Blood Angels version, but as a counter assault/deterrent, could be okay.
Northern85Star wrote: Practically, there’s nothing but wulfen dreads and Björn in the SW dreadnought department now. Who’s ever going to field a normal or venerable dread? xD
depends on the cost and the weapons load outs, it sounds like wulfen dreads won't be able to get shields (makes sense to me, they're our bezerkers) so depending on movement profile and cost I mean if a wulfen dread is 2 times the cost of a venerable dread, just for example.
depends on the cost and the weapons load outs, it sounds like wulfen dreads won't be able to get shields (makes sense to me, they're our bezerkers) so depending on movement profile and cost I mean if a wulfen dread is 2 times the cost of a venerable dread, just for example.
Its actually clearly readable that the Wulfen Dread can exchange its axe or its claw for the Blizzard Shield.
depends on the cost and the weapons load outs, it sounds like wulfen dreads won't be able to get shields (makes sense to me, they're our bezerkers) so depending on movement profile and cost I mean if a wulfen dread is 2 times the cost of a venerable dread, just for example.
Its actually clearly readable that the Wulfen Dread can exchange its axe or its claw for the Blizzard Shield.
So unless they change some wording in the dex thunder hammer wolf guard leaders and pack leaders in a blood claw squad supported by Lukas are +2 to hit when they charge? So TH and P fists hitting on 2s hidden in a squad of bloodclaws? Yes please. Oh and if within 12 of wulfen they get extra attacks.
So unless they change some wording in the dex thunder hammer wolf guard leaders and pack leaders in a blood claw squad supported by Lukas are +2 to hit when they charge? So TH and P fists hitting on 2s hidden in a squad of bloodclaws? Yes please. Oh and if within 12 of wulfen they get extra attacks.
That all looks correct. Its also the way 8th edition is meant to work. Stack up your aura benefits. But you would want to try to get more than one unit of Blood Claws benefiting from that to make it worth it. Or try it with Wolf Guard/Thunderwolves and Arjak for +2 attacks (One from Arjak and one from the Wulfen) and +1 to hit. Remember however you only get the +1 attack from the Wulfen if you were not in range to benefit from their re-roll charges effect. Lots of good synergy there. Hopefully the Warlord Traits, Strategems and Artifacts also look as good.
Praise be to the Allfather! He has deemed to give us news about our incoming stratagems, psychic powers and relics! I am now extra hyped. Everything in here is very fluffy and thematic! I love it!
That spell only effects the rune priest that cast it. Still thats a lot of attacks in cc, he will crush enemy units in cc with that spell.
I love the lone wolf stratagem. It happens quite a bit in my games where i end up with a wolf guard with a powerfist left. Pop that and suddenly you have real threat sitting in your enemys face thats much tougher to kill.
I am also liking the stormbolter relic. Str 4, assault 4, ap-1, 2dmg. Add the warlord trait +1 to wound and you could realistically finish off a weakened vehicle with it popping the aura ability.
Azuza001 wrote: That spell only effects the rune priest that cast it. Still thats a lot of attacks in cc, he will crush enemy units in cc with that spell.
Really, very fine with it just being about the rune priest... don't have the index in front of me (may change anyway), but iirc Njal has iron priest keyword. True?
So, the Saga's seem interesting to say the least. Pass an armour save, and i presume every unit within 6" gets a 6+++. The +1 to wound vs vehicles and monsters is also pretty interesting, but waaaaay harder to pick up. HOWEVER, we now have a potentially new Smash Captain replacement that can potentially buff other units.
Kdash wrote: So, the Saga's seem interesting to say the least. Pass an armour save, and i presume every unit within 6" gets a 6+++. The +1 to wound vs vehicles and monsters is also pretty interesting, but waaaaay harder to pick up. HOWEVER, we now have a potentially new Smash Captain replacement that can potentially buff other units.
Depends on who you're fighting. I have two buddies I play with who play Nids and Daemons and both have a large amount of monsters. The nids guy also plays DG with bloat drones that run at me so... shouldn't be too hard to pick up. Especially with the +1 to hit and whacking everything with thunder hammers with ease now.
As for the save, run into some chaff and you've got yourself a 6++ aura ability. lol
Assuming storm caller is still the same, it's possible to get a 6" bubble of +1 armor save and -1 to hit with the 3cp cloaked by the storm strat.
They do indeed... a rune priest on a bike, escorting 3 Rhinos full of bloodclaws. +1 to armor save, so they're 2+ armor save. Spend the 3cp minus to hit strat. Rhinos pop smoke.
-2 to hit, 2+ armor rhinos. Rinse/repeat with our shield dreads stomping forward. Who now, as wulfen dreads, move 8"+advance.
I didn't think the cover from the storm spell worked on vehicles. Vehicles say to count as in cover you also have to be 50% obscured... does the power over ride that? If so i have been playing it wrong.
Azuza001 wrote: I didn't think the cover from the storm spell worked on vehicles. Vehicles say to count as in cover you also have to be 50% obscured... does the power over ride that? If so i have been playing it wrong.
"Any friendly spacewolf unit.... gains cover" Yeap it affects vehicle too.
Lone wolf looks great used on a wolfguard or a long fang (untargetable heavy weapon. Sitting on back objective with reroll hits and wound...)
