I have been looking into what good things SW have in 8th edition, I have not played them since 5th edition.
Am I reading right that the new SW stratgem is the best delivery system for primaris hellblasters? It seems good.
If I want to go owerboard I can take 2 full units of 10, and deep strike logan in there. Exspensive, but all thise shots now have re-roll to hit. That seems awsome.
It also seems like SW are king of plasma in 8th edition. Is this correct?
Niiai wrote: It also seems like SW are king of plasma in 8th edition. Is this correct?
Plasma is very good on Wolves, but Dark Angels are the king of plasma thanks to their neato stratagem. Maybe Wolves will get something to improve theirs too, but plasma has always been the Unforgiven's thing.
I don't like Helblasters. 5 cost 165 I think. For 170 you get 5 WGs with Jump Pack, chainsword and combi-plasma.
The Helblasters have an additional wound but cost 1 CP to Outflank. They are also less flexible where they appear and a shooty unit that wants to get within 12" of the enemy really benefits from the Fly keyword. WG can also shoot with both parts of the combi-weapon to faster clear chaff.
Yeah, Drop Pod WG are dead. Jump Packs are much better and way cheaper.
I wanted to wait for the codex before I build any new models, but I caved in und have built 5 with magnetized Jump Packs and wrists. So I can use them also as Pack LEaders and/or with other weapons. Should be flexible enough no matter what the codex brings.
5 Jumpers, 5 Termis, Arjac, Logan and 5 outflanking Wulfen could really bring some hurt and are relatively safe from alpha strikes
Thinking of adding one of the easy to build Redemptors to my SWs.
Anyone have any experience with them?
Thinking of running it alongside Bjorn and two standard Dreads for laughs.
Ragnar69 wrote: In my experience, big expensive models get alpha-ed hard-core and don't survive T1 which is very frustrating.
sounds like every edition for tyranids
Edit: Land raider transports. How sturdy is it now? I might wanne bring a full unit pluss a wolf guard and a character. A land reider seems like the best way to do this. I have the model with the flamespurt cannons. I think I used excessive glue back in those days, I do not know if I can re-build it back into the hurican bolter version one. (For full transport capacety of 16.) Although 2x flamers means it is insenteviced nbot to charge it.
How are the landraiders in conparison? And is the SW flying shuttle just better? Harder to hit at least.
In my experience, the Storm Wolf is the main target for every opponent while many ignore the Land Raider in favor of more squishy targets like Long Fangs. So the Raider so far was more successful in delivering his cargo.
So far I have only transported GHs and BCs. If your Raider is loaded with Wulfen it probably changes the opponents target priority
People say outflank wulfen, but that seems odd to me. Making a 9" charge even with re-rolls is hard.
Could we put wulfen in rhinoes? Rhinoes are cheap enough when compared to how anoying they are.
Probably in the regular long fangs in the back, rhinoes in the mid configuration. Throw in some GH in the rhinoes. Perhaps some fast moving melee element like bikes or wolf riders.
It was what I did in 5th edition when I did not do drop pods.
BTW: are land speeders, lone wolves and partly dreadnought a bit exspensive? Especialy the first 2. In 5th edituion the lone wolf was 20 points for a cool model with feel no pain. Now he is a whopping 75 base. You get 5 grey hunters for that price.
No Wulfen in Rhinos.
And you shoudn't let them outflank alone. Get some other units that can benefit from their curse to re-roll charges. So even when the WUlfen fail their charge, there is other stuff around the opponent has to worry about. A 9" charge T1 is better than footsloging. And not being on the board when the alpha strike happens is always a boon.
I also find Speeders and Lone Wolves too expensive, especially Lone Wolves as WG battle Leaders are cheaper and better. Dreads I find ok when you compare a shooty one to LFs or Predators,
Niiai wrote: How are wolves? Can they work as a cheap screen vs alpha strikes and deep strike fotprints? My wolves have no spore mine.
Was thinking FenWolves as a screen for smites (since one of my mates plays smite spam) but hearing smite is probably going to get nerfed (beta rules) , I'm not sure if I'm going to commit to them. But if you face deep striking forces regularly two units of five are pretty cheap means to deny deep striking to your flanks.
Space wolves always fight best midrange. If you run gunline and you meet a dedicated gunline army like IG, Tau and Guiliman you need to move forward and meet the enemy. We can of course (and should) include long ranged weapons to back it all up.
However that means leaving the home teretory undefended and alpha strike charges are everwhere. Transports midigate this somewhat. But you really need something to keep alpha strikes and deep strikes away. Cheap units need to do this. I think wolves are the way to go. (I suppose other SM armies can have a big fotprint with scouts, but I don't know their rules or ost to make a judgement on this.)
Weazel wrote: Yeah I guess people have either shelved Wolves till the codex or quit 8th edition at this point.
I have three armies, none of them has a codex
Currently SW are the only ones with some flexibility. Orks and drukhari are just boring mono-build.
Wulfen cannot ride in rhinos, razorbacks, or pods. Only land raiders and the stormwolf. They can be embarked in a stormfang gunship only after a few casualties.
I haven't tried fenrisian wolves yet, and I only own 5 of them, are min squads of little wolves of any purpose at the moment?
Weazel wrote: Yeah I guess people have either shelved Wolves till the codex or quit 8th edition at this point.
I have three armies, none of them has a codex
Right there with you with Wolves, Orks and Necrons (which I don't play actively and have on loan to a buddy). None have codexes. Talk about the odds.
+1. Wolves and Orks here. I feel that if your a fan of an army who cares if your opponent has a dex and you don't. I've still been kicking ass even with non traditional builds for my armies. My Meta is often confused by my choices at tournaments but they get me a lot of wins. Just got 10 brand new on sprue wulfen for a song and can't wait to finish assembling them.
Weazel wrote: Yeah I guess people have either shelved Wolves till the codex or quit 8th edition at this point.
I have three armies, none of them has a codex
Right there with you with Wolves, Orks and Necrons (which I don't play actively and have on loan to a buddy). None have codexes. Talk about the odds.
+1. Wolves and Orks here. I feel that if your a fan of an army who cares if your opponent has a dex and you don't. I've still been kicking ass even with non traditional builds for my armies. My Meta is often confused by my choices at tournaments but they get me a lot of wins. Just got 10 brand new on sprue wulfen for a song and can't wait to finish assembling them.
I would be interested in seeing some of your lists
The wulfen shares some characteristics with catalyst genstealers. Nids list with 60 stealers are putting up good resoults. (Nids might be the codex with the most playable variations now.)
Automatically Appended Next Post: 30 genestealers are 360 points. 10 wulfen with 2 stormshields and 2 hammers are 360 ish points. How does that compare?
Stealers are s4 rending. Wulfen are s5.
Wulfen are 4+ 5++ 2 wounds each. Stealers are 5++ 5+++ with catalyst.
While stealers do have an edge the wulfen are not half bad.
Weazel wrote: Yeah I guess people have either shelved Wolves till the codex or quit 8th edition at this point.
I have three armies, none of them has a codex
Right there with you with Wolves, Orks and Necrons (which I don't play actively and have on loan to a buddy). None have codexes. Talk about the odds.
+1. Wolves and Orks here. I feel that if your a fan of an army who cares if your opponent has a dex and you don't. I've still been kicking ass even with non traditional builds for my armies. My Meta is often confused by my choices at tournaments but they get me a lot of wins. Just got 10 brand new on sprue wulfen for a song and can't wait to finish assembling them.
I would be interested in seeing some of your lists
I used this one to great effect last tournament. My FLGS ran a 800pt tournament. I tabled my opponents in the first two rds. I was only defeated in the 3rd by crazy luck of the dice. I assaulted a chimera and master of ordinance out of deep strike. The chimera exploded on. 6 and then he happened to roll a 6 for Ragnar, and 6 and 5 for two of my wolfguard squads. Couldn't recover after that. Sad part was that I was way up on points at that point and my opponent talked about giving up. Obviously he changed his mind after that. I ended up taking third unfortunately. I wonder what would have happened if he had not rolled that 6. I used the new outflank for ragnar and his wolves ( extra attack and ablative wounds) and deep struck some wolfguard. Hellblasters and combi plas wolfguard sought out hard targets. Most comical was when I shot down a circus black star in one round of shooting dealing 18 unsaved wounds lol.
Wolf Guard [10 PL, 130pts]: Jump Packs
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Wolf Guard [10 PL, 166pts]: Jump Packs
. Wolf Guard: Wolf Claw (Pair)
. Wolf Guard: Wolf Claw (Pair)
. Wolf Guard: Wolf Claw (Pair)
. Wolf Guard: Wolf Claw (Pair)
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Storm shield, Wolf claw
Wolf Guard [10 PL, 170pts]: Jump Packs
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
I would be interested in seeing some of your lists
Mine are usually something like that:
Arjac
wolf lord on thunderwolf with k.sword
wolf priest
3x5 grey hunters
3 razorbacks with twin ass cannons and stormbolters
5 long fangs with 4 lascannons
stormwolf at its cheapest loadout
5 termies (3 TH/SS, 2 with frost swords and stormbolters)
2x5 wulfen (leader with claws, 2 TH/SS, 2 axes)
5 wulfen and the priest in the flyer, 5 wulfen outflank while arjac and termies deepstrike. If I spare a few points I swith all the wulfen axes with more TH/SS. Wolf priest and lord sometimes are replaced by njal. List 2, with no vehicles:
Arjac
Njal
2x5 grey hunters
6 long fangs with 5 lascannons
5 long fangs with 4 missile launchers
5 termies (like above)
2x5 wulfen (like above)
6 WG bikers all with stormbolters and 3 storm shields
5 TWC (2 with double claws, 1 with shield and chainsword, 1 with claw and shield, leader with TH/SS)
Alternatively I cut a unit of wulfen to bring the lord on th.mount and a third min unit of grey hunters. Biker wolf priest sometimes joins the party as well.
Niiai wrote: How is the flyer longship? Any good? Transport just seemw lik3 a dare, so many eggs in one basket.
The gunship IMHO doesn't worth its points, the stormwolf is already quite killy and can carry decent units. Of course you need armor saturation and it will always be priority target anyway, but the cheapest loadout is 279 points, which are a lot but it's still viable and not overcosted. Several armies can't even have the math to bring down a stormwolf by shooting in turn 1. And if the vehicle dies you have probably saved the razorbacks and maybe other stuff like the bikes or TWC that usually soak the anti tank.
Could be but real wolves revel in assault Aggressors can do both. They can shoot twice if standing still and are good against heavy infantry with their fists. But they only have 18" range.
Weazel wrote: Yeah I guess people have either shelved Wolves till the codex or quit 8th edition at this point.
I have three armies, none of them has a codex
Currently SW are the only ones with some flexibility. Orks and drukhari are just boring mono-build.
Wulfen cannot ride in rhinos, razorbacks, or pods. Only land raiders and the stormwolf. They can be embarked in a stormfang gunship only after a few casualties.
I haven't tried fenrisian wolves yet, and I only own 5 of them, are min squads of little wolves of any purpose at the moment?
Fen Wolves are mostly useless.
Cyberwolves are the go to critter, unit of one objective hunters that get forgotten by most opponents after a turn of hiding - out of sight, out of mind.
Yup, for 15 points, a few lone Cyberwolves can cause a real nuisance by blocking smite, preventing Deep Strike or snagging objectives.
If you opponent kills them, they were only 15 points. Just watch out as they are an easy kill for First Blood. Fortunately hiding a single model from LOS is not too hard.
Yes, one, in Finecast. I converted some from Fenrisian Wolves. Bionic eyes and sticking some cables behind the neck are especially easy but metal jaws/paws/legs aren't that hard if you use the right parts with some imagination. I.e. old Epic Space Marines with the feet clipped of make a great base for paws.
Fenris wolves are decent with the price reduction. I like the Wolf chars with TWC, and a unit of Fen wolves is good with them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Not seeing the comparison between 10 wulfen and 30 Stealers. 60-80 more attacks for the Stealers? More wounds and models, plus Troops. Significantly different.
Niiai wrote: It also seems like SW are king of plasma in 8th edition. Is this correct?
Plasma is very good on Wolves, but Dark Angels are the king of plasma thanks to their neato stratagem. Maybe Wolves will get something to improve theirs too, but plasma has always been the Unforgiven's thing.
I'd rather have the Wolves' stratagem budget be spent on improving their ground-based choppy stuff like TWC, Wulfen, Terminators, Grey Hunters and Blood Claws, that's always been their thing.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: Could be but real wolves revel in assault Aggressors can do both. They can shoot twice if standing still and are good against heavy infantry with their fists. But they only have 18" range.
Wish there were Aggressors with a pure melee loadout, that would be awesome. Dual-wielding master-crafted frost axes that give extra attacks in CC but no ranged weapons at all or something. Or get the option for axe+storm shield at the cost of getting less attacks.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Weazel wrote: Yeah I guess people have either shelved Wolves till the codex or quit 8th edition at this point.
I actually unshelved them recently. My Death Guard have had their codex for some time already but I find I simply like my Wolves better. I like DG too but I simply don't get the same enthusiasm when playing/ painting/ building them as I do with my Space Wolves, so yeah
Niiai wrote: People say outflank wulfen, but that seems odd to me. Making a 9" charge even with re-rolls is hard.
Could we put wulfen in rhinoes? Rhinoes are cheap enough when compared to how anoying they are.
Probably in the regular long fangs in the back, rhinoes in the mid configuration. Throw in some GH in the rhinoes. Perhaps some fast moving melee element like bikes or wolf riders.
It was what I did in 5th edition when I did not do drop pods.
BTW: are land speeders, lone wolves and partly dreadnought a bit exspensive? Especialy the first 2. In 5th edituion the lone wolf was 20 points for a cool model with feel no pain. Now he is a whopping 75 base. You get 5 grey hunters for that price.
A pack of Wulfen that is mostly carrying stormshields/thunder hammers can take take a lot of heat when you factor in the 3++/5+ FNP. When it comes to outflanking Wulfen, is that the worst case scenario is you gave your opponent a good target dilemma.
What do you consider to be the optimal loadout for a Wulfen pack? Max out on TH/SS or mix in a couple of axes? Or even take naked Wulfen as first casualties?
Going to buy a pack so I'm trying to figure out how to build them.
Leader with claw and 2 TH/SS are mandatory. Other two guys (or more if you have a bigger unit) can be equipped with all the three melee weapons and be good. I've magnetized those two guys in each squad of my wulfen.
My typical loadout is leader with claws, 2 TH/SS and two axes. However with CA thunder hammers have become cheaper while axes kept the same price, so going with 4 TH/SS is probably the most effective way to field them since they only cost 8 points more than my previous loadout.
I've tried 2x5 wulfen, one unit ouflanking and one footslogging or embakerd in the stormwolf, but I haven't played big units yet. Not even tried 3x5 of them, which I sometimes played in 7th; in this edition it seems impossible to bring that many werewolves.
At the moment at least 5 of them always show up in my lists.
Wish Wulfen were still d6 extra attacks with rending. Just ferocious werewolf guys who fought with just teeth and claws. I guess it was in 6th or so that their fluff was retconned and they now run around with powerweapons. Shame really.
But yeah I'm really tempted to run 4 TH/SS since the points difference to axes is so small. Could magnetize as well if it's reasonably simple.
Could magnetize as well if it's reasonably simple.
It is, just be careful to use the arms that fit the axes since each wulfen comes with 4 possible arms each if I remember correctly. Then put magnets in the wrists.
So are Space Wolves named characters essential to the army? I have finished collecting everything for my Blood Angels and Guard, and have been toying around with the idea of a Space Wolves army.
I do want to ally in a Spearhead Detachment of Leman Russ Battle Tanks with Tank Commander, since both of my other two armies are light on tanks (foot Guard for my Tallarn, a coouple Rhinos in the Blood Angels)... plus, the Leman Russ seems silly not to run with the Wolves.
Since I have zero experience with Space Wolves, what would be a good idea to fill the rest of the army with at 2,000 points? I do want to use Wolf Scouts, since my other Marines don't have any scouts in it, but that is about as far as I have gotten.
You probably want some troops. Sqouts are elites in thr SM. I would sugest grey fangs. After that it is up to you really. For the moment SW are a bit generic until they get their codex. But then I was a very big fan of the 5th edition wolf guard profile that was all sorts of awsome.
NH Gunsmith wrote: So are Space Wolves named characters essential to the army? I have finished collecting everything for my Blood Angels and Guard, and have been toying around with the idea of a Space Wolves army.
I do want to ally in a Spearhead Detachment of Leman Russ Battle Tanks with Tank Commander, since both of my other two armies are light on tanks (foot Guard for my Tallarn, a coouple Rhinos in the Blood Angels)... plus, the Leman Russ seems silly not to run with the Wolves.
Since I have zero experience with Space Wolves, what would be a good idea to fill the rest of the army with at 2,000 points? I do want to use Wolf Scouts, since my other Marines don't have any scouts in it, but that is about as far as I have gotten.
Not essential but they are very good. Arjac and Njal are SW superstars, bjorn is more limited (slow and pricey) but still very effective. Other named characters like Ulrik or Lukas are ok for fluffy games, they're not really competitive. Not sure about Logan, IMHO a standard wolf lord can do the same work while being cheaper but I've never tried him yet.
Standard characters can be quite effective as well. Lords and battle leaders are solid on thunderwolf mount, bike or jump packs. Wolf priests add a lot in close combat oriented armies. Rune priests have a good profile but they're now too expensive, and for his cost you just want to take Njal. Never tried iron priests since I don't run dreads.
A wolf lord on thunderwolf with the relic sword is only 115 points, a very killy non named character.
I have been looking into SW bikes and I have some questions:
First where are bikes in 8th edition? It seems like most else 2 wound models they are quite bad, unless propper saturated with other multi wound models.
Second, where are they compared to regular SM bikes? The 2 point discount seems poor compared to having less BS skill with the bikes being able to push out soo much shots at 12". Is there a silver lining in more close combat attacks?
Theerd, how many weapons can a biker shoot? Can they shoot their weapons and a combi weapon and/or pistols?
Niiai wrote: I have been looking into SW bikes and I have some questions:
First where are bikes in 8th edition? It seems like most else 2 wound models they are quite bad, unless propper saturated with other multi wound models.
SW bikes that worth something are only the wolf guard ones since they can double their shots for just two points by taking stormbolters and each one of them can gain a 3+ invuln paying 5 points. 8 S4 shots in rapid fire range and 2-3 attacks per bike is quite awesome. Saturation is not a problem, almost everything in the SW codex is multiwounds. You'll certainly have the majority of the list based around dreads, TWC, wulfen, terminators, razorbacks or the stormwolf anyway.
Theerd, how many weapons can a biker shoot? Can they shoot their weapons and a combi weapon and/or pistols?
According to the rule book they can shoot with all their weapons. Basically the bikes' twin bolters and another weapon, usually stormbolters or combiplasmas.
Niiai wrote: I have been looking into SW bikes and I have some questions:
First where are bikes in 8th edition? It seems like most else 2 wound models they are quite bad, unless propper saturated with other multi wound models.
Second, where are they compared to regular SM bikes? The 2 point discount seems poor compared to having less BS skill with the bikes being able to push out soo much shots at 12". Is there a silver lining in more close combat attacks?
Theerd, how many weapons can a biker shoot? Can they shoot their weapons and a combi weapon and/or pistols?
You'll want to skip Switftclaws and run Wolf Guard with bikes, armed with Storm Shields and Storm Bolters. T5 W2 3++ is quite durable and each one is pushing out 8 shots in rapid fire range. However with the shields you are sacrificing CC punch meaning they are pretty much like regular Grey Hunters in melee. Basically you'll want to stay out of melee altogether because you'll suck at it and getting stuck in is going to cost you your shooting which is why you brought them in the first place. This also means that they are very vulnerable to getting charged and their shooting denied since they have to get within 12" to get the most out of their shooting. If you need faster melee units I'd take TWC over bikers any day of the week.
Bikers had their moment in the sun at the beginning of 8th when they could take SS, SB AND a melee weapon, but now they need to pick 2 out of 3.
NH Gunsmith wrote: So are Space Wolves named characters essential to the army? I have finished collecting everything for my Blood Angels and Guard, and have been toying around with the idea of a Space Wolves army.
I do want to ally in a Spearhead Detachment of Leman Russ Battle Tanks with Tank Commander, since both of my other two armies are light on tanks (foot Guard for my Tallarn, a coouple Rhinos in the Blood Angels)... plus, the Leman Russ seems silly not to run with the Wolves.
Since I have zero experience with Space Wolves, what would be a good idea to fill the rest of the army with at 2,000 points? I do want to use Wolf Scouts, since my other Marines don't have any scouts in it, but that is about as far as I have gotten.
Space Wolves are currently a bit too jack of all trades for their own good but if you can make the list that's a really good jack and recognise other list's weaknesses you can take a dig at them there but some armies really need a specialist list to successfully pull that off.
If I bring Troops at all, it's 3 minimum GH squads in Razorbacks. And that is only for the +3cp, I don't feel they are ever worth their points especially now that Razorbacks got a price hike.
Hey friends. Replying to some things form this page.
Named heroes. Arjac and Njall are great. Bjorn is not that slow and basically the strongest non lord of war in the game, as far a superior I can tell.
Space wolf bikes are absolutely great this edition. Storm bolter and shield is the way. Combi plasma is fine, but so expensive in comparison. Speaking of bjorn. Man he is nice to stick in with some of those bikes and an iron priest. hell Murderfang is fun too.
Grey hunters are the go to troop, and yeah dakka razorbacks went up, but I find them to be very strong still.
Well it's not too bad, maybe a 15ish increase. It's a durable platform with decent gun options. And you can fit 2 plasmaguns (normal and combi) and a plasma pistol to the GH pack but it gets kinda expensive. I'd propably keep them pretty barebones and let the RB do the work. I'd save the wargear points for the more elite choices.
But until we get our codex and full stratagems I don't think the +3cp from battalion are absolutely necessary.
I typically run a Batallion with Bjorn as my Warlord so I get 7 CPs at 1500 points and above. Even if you are just using the reroll strat, I find the CPs useful and my Grey Hunters have never failed to pull their weight. My Hunters have dealt with everything from Daemon Engines to Eldar Jetbikes.
Niiai wrote: What was the increase of the dakka razorback? I understand it was undercosted before, but presumably that does not make it a bad unit now.
Dakkaback is now 70 (base model) + 44 (Twin cannon) = 114 points.
So I just got a good deal on thunderwolf calvary, 6 for 25$, but they didn't have any arms. I have no experience with these guys, all I have gathered so far is
1. Run them with a wolf priest with jump pack for healing and cc bonus.
2. Put storm shields on a few.
So I was thinking
Leader - 2x wolf claws.
3 with 2 x wolf claws
2 with storm shields and chainswords
I would use them for pure number of attacks, I have wulfen with thunder hammer storm shields for hitting stuff harder, and str 5 isn't bad in my opinion, but is there a better option? Should I just go cheap and do chainsword on all of them? Or should I just magnetize them, which still would not help me figure out what their roll should be.
I'm running my TWC with claws in this edition, sometimes the leader has the hammer since he got more attacks. I usually keep 1-2 dudes stock or with just a shield, the first casualties to remove. 3 shields for 5-6 dudes.
Tipycally my 5 man unit has a leader with hammer and shield, one with 2 claws, one with bolt pistol and chainsword, one with shield and chainsword and one with shield and claw. Alternatively two claws also to the leader and to the stock guy.
Razorbacks are still underpriced and since several other popular units went down in price (GH, long fangs, wulfen, TWC, terminators) they're still very good.
Blackie wrote: I'm running my TWC with claws in this edition, sometimes the leader has the hammer since he got more attacks. I usually keep 1-2 dudes stock or with just a shield, the first casualties to remove. 3 shields for 5-6 dudes.
Tipycally my 5 man unit has a leader with hammer and shield, one with 2 claws, one with bolt pistol and chainsword, one with shield and chainsword and one with shield and claw. Alternatively two claws also to the leader and to the stock guy.
Razorbacks are still underpriced and since several other popular units went down in price (GH, long fangs, wulfen, TWC, terminators) they're still very good.
Thanks, that helps a lot.
I just wish wulfen and thunderwolfs where not so dang expensive. Space wolves just don't get many models on the board of their unique stuff.
Blackie wrote: I'm running my TWC with claws in this edition, sometimes the leader has the hammer since he got more attacks. I usually keep 1-2 dudes stock or with just a shield, the first casualties to remove. 3 shields for 5-6 dudes.
Tipycally my 5 man unit has a leader with hammer and shield, one with 2 claws, one with bolt pistol and chainsword, one with shield and chainsword and one with shield and claw. Alternatively two claws also to the leader and to the stock guy.
Razorbacks are still underpriced and since several other popular units went down in price (GH, long fangs, wulfen, TWC, terminators) they're still very good.
Thanks, that helps a lot.
I just wish wulfen and thunderwolfs where not so dang expensive. Space wolves just don't get many models on the board of their unique stuff.
Wulfen are expensive because they're worth it - a squad of ten will massacre Imperial Knights, Wraithknights, Guiliman, Magnus or pretty much any other thing they get into combat with and using the Cunning of the Wolf strategem the likelyhood of them getting into combat is much higher than it was before Chapter Approved dropped.
Thunderwolves...as much as they improved losing S10 was a huge blow and the ease of access to mortal wounds has made Storm Shields on them kind of 'meh'. People have managed to build armies around them but they are lynchpin armies that can be pulled apart easily if opponents have the tools, annoyingly the tools are common in my meta.
One of the guys who occassionally plays in the same tournaments as me had success today with what he calls a "Pop goes the Wolves" strategy.
Basically uses Dreads and deepstriking firepower to draw the enemy's units apart then deepstrike in gaps and blow them to bits, doesn't work so great against 2+ armour saves but it puts down Imperial Knights pretty consistently.
Dakka Wolf wrote: One of the guys who occassionally plays in the same tournaments as me had success today with what he calls a "Pop goes the Wolves" strategy.
Basically uses Dreads and deepstriking firepower to draw the enemy's units apart then deepstrike in gaps and blow them to bits, doesn't work so great against 2+ armour saves but it puts down Imperial Knights pretty consistently.
With the Lucis Droppod being cheaper than normal Droppod now, it is good to put Dreads in it now.
Dakka Wolf wrote: One of the guys who occassionally plays in the same tournaments as me had success today with what he calls a "Pop goes the Wolves" strategy.
Basically uses Dreads and deepstriking firepower to draw the enemy's units apart then deepstrike in gaps and blow them to bits, doesn't work so great against 2+ armour saves but it puts down Imperial Knights pretty consistently.
With the Lucis Droppod being cheaper than normal Droppod now, it is good to put Dreads in it now.
Where can I find this information?
I miss dropping Dreads.
Dakka Wolf wrote: One of the guys who occassionally plays in the same tournaments as me had success today with what he calls a "Pop goes the Wolves" strategy.
Basically uses Dreads and deepstriking firepower to draw the enemy's units apart then deepstrike in gaps and blow them to bits, doesn't work so great against 2+ armour saves but it puts down Imperial Knights pretty consistently.
With the Lucis Droppod being cheaper than normal Droppod now, it is good to put Dreads in it now.
Where can I find this information?
I miss dropping Dreads.
Chapter Approved. There is a few pages about the new points of FW units.
Fourty point drop might be enough to consider dropping a missile-assault cannon dread on some poor bastard...or bringing Murderfang back into the game.
What charecters, if any, would you put on a thunderwolf? I was thinking wolf lord / wolf guard then 6 regular as an expensive but powerful front line assault squad with wulfen and blood claws coming in using the stratagem so it would be a two pronged attack. Or run the blood claws in rhinos and then have them run up the side where I plan on the wulfen showing up. But I don't know if it's worth it to do thunderwolfs or jet packs or bikes for my charecters. Or foot slog / rhino riders.
Dakka Wolf wrote: Fourty point drop might be enough to consider dropping a missile-assault cannon dread on some poor bastard...or bringing Murderfang back into the game.
Murderfang works pretty well already. He is a character so cannot be targetted unless he is the closest unit. Walk him up the board behind an Axe/Shield Dread and advance them both. You should be able to pull off a T2 charge.
Azuza001 wrote: What charecters, if any, would you put on a thunderwolf? I was thinking wolf lord / wolf guard then 6 regular as an expensive but powerful front line assault squad with wulfen and blood claws coming in using the stratagem so it would be a two pronged attack. Or run the blood claws in rhinos and then have them run up the side where I plan on the wulfen showing up. But I don't know if it's worth it to do thunderwolfs or jet packs or bikes for my charecters. Or foot slog / rhino riders.
Wolf lord on thunderwolf with the relic sword is my fav HQ at the moment. In fact I'm currently playing 2 HQs among only 4 choices: him, arjac, njal and a stock wolf priest that I put in the flyer with wulfen.
Azuza001 wrote: What charecters, if any, would you put on a thunderwolf? I was thinking wolf lord / wolf guard then 6 regular as an expensive but powerful front line assault squad with wulfen and blood claws coming in using the stratagem so it would be a two pronged attack. Or run the blood claws in rhinos and then have them run up the side where I plan on the wulfen showing up. But I don't know if it's worth it to do thunderwolfs or jet packs or bikes for my charecters. Or foot slog / rhino riders.
Wolf lord on thunderwolf with the relic sword is my fav HQ at the moment. In fact I'm currently playing 2 HQs among only 4 choices: him, arjac, njal and a stock wolf priest that I put in the flyer with wulfen.
Wolf Lord on Thurnderwolf is a good choice, but I prefer a simple Thurnder Hammer over that Relic sword. it has real good AP but that "low" strength and damage hurts......
For the extra points, I think a Thunder Hammer is well worth it. Sure it may be overkill against 1-wound infantry but as soon as you come up against anything with multiple wounds, you will be glad you took the hammer.
Yeah, it really depends on how you want to play him. I always field the lord along with TWC equipped with claws and shields, so I prefer the anti infantry loadout for him. And I've also got wulfen and terminators, usually with arjac, that wield thunder hammers.
Dakka Wolf wrote: Fourty point drop might be enough to consider dropping a missile-assault cannon dread on some poor bastard...or bringing Murderfang back into the game.
Murderfang works pretty well already. He is a character so cannot be targetted unless he is the closest unit. Walk him up the board behind an Axe/Shield Dread and advance them both. You should be able to pull off a T2 charge.
So far he's been offed in every game I've used him. People keep telling me to use him as a Distraction Carnifex but even though he's a priority he's almost double the cost of the Carnifex.
Dropping him has its downsides but eight extra wounds and a turn two charge could make him more useful rather than just threatening.
So I used murderfang tonight for the first time vs my nephews ultramarines, man what a battle. Disclaimer : we played index vs index, so he didn't use any stratagems from the codex against me.
I took 5 Wulfen, 5 thunderwolves, 20 Grey Hunters, 10 blood claws, a wolf priest w/ jump pack, and murderfang. Everything did exactly like I expected except for the wolf priest, I kept him near the thunder wolves but come charge time the wolves made a charge he didn't and then killed their target. Nephews next turn he unloaded his entire army onto the wolves and killed them all before I could get a chance to try and heal wounds. Oh well, that made an amazing fire magnet lol.
The thing I found with murderfang is giving him the warlord trait is a must. Tenacious survivor really helps mitigate that no invulnerable save thing, end of game murderfang had one wound left. Without the survivor trait he would have been dead and I probably would have lost. As it was he killed 10 tacticals, 3 terminators, and at the end charged and killed a full health dreadnought in a single round of combat.
My only change I would make next time is I would need to find more room in the list for 2 rhinos. But everything did so well I can't find fault with any one thing.
Ragnar69 wrote: BAs and DAs got access to some SM vehicles/flyers with their codex. Do you think we will get them also and are they useful for us at all?
I hope we won't get them as the completionist in me would have to buy 3 of each even if I never intend to use them
Well I don't see why we wouldn't get them, since GW probably wants your money.
Wishlisting here but I'd love to see the Helfrost concept taken a bit further. Maybe a Predator variant with a Helfrost Destructor on top and Helfrost cannons as sponsons. I would probably buy two in a heartbeat. Maybe also a Helfrost carbine as a special weapon and Helfrost Cannon Long Fangs etc.
Ragnar69 wrote: But would you really field helfrost? I find it sub-par compared to the other options.
Well they could overhaul the rules and balance the points properly. All I'm saying that there's potential to make them unique and usable. Like mortal wounds on sixes to wound or whatever.
Has anyone tried any Imperial soup combos with Wolves?
I'm half-seriously contemplating between a small battalion of AM (2x CC, 3x Infantry squad, 2x LRBT) or an Imperial Knight Crusader for roughly the same points cost. Not really sure which would compliment my lists better.
The Knight is a big scary fire magnet with decent firepower whereas the AM detachment would give more board control and I guess roughly the same amount of firepower.
Any reason I should pick one over the other? Or should I plan on getting something else entirely?
Well, fluff wise, Space Wolves have a good relationship with AM detachments they interact with. Generally coming to calls for aid.
I think it depends on how you run your wolves. If you run lots of grey hunters or blood claws, maybe the Knight? If you run a more elite list, run the AM? Whatever you're lacking, fill the hole I suppose.
I sometimes add a Knight to my Wolves for larger fights. It is great fun but one heck of a fire-magnet. He doesn't normally last past Turn 2 but he usually makes a big dent in the enemy before he goes down and attracts so much firepower that the rest of my army can just stroll up to the enemy and start butchering them.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: Well, fluff wise, Space Wolves have a good relationship with AM detachments they interact with. Generally coming to calls for aid.
I think it depends on how you run your wolves. If you run lots of grey hunters or blood claws, maybe the Knight? If you run a more elite list, run the AM? Whatever you're lacking, fill the hole I suppose.
I'd go for the opposite: do you bring tons of multiwounds models that can be crippled by the enemy anti tank? Bring the knight, it will soak a lot of hits, saving your elites. Do you plan on bringing massive SW infantries? Then AM guards can complete the list basically invalidating the opponent anti tank, like the green tide concept for the orks.
BTW, all the characters that have been out of stock for quite some time are available again. Yesterday they still have been unavailable.
I have already snatched Canis and TDA Njal on ebay because I was fearing the worst
There will be a 2000 point tournament with random missions in March. I'm probbaly bring
Battallion
Logan
Njal TDA 3x GHs with 2 plasma, power axe, WGPL with combiplasma/frost sword, 2 in Rhinos, 1 outflanking
Vanguard
Arjac
5 WG, jump, chainsword, combiplasma
5 TDA with various weapons
5 Wulfen with various weapons, outflank
The Plan is to just start with the squads in rhinos and the wolves on the board to prevent enemy alpha strikes. The rest will DS/outflank to concentrate on a flank while getting as many character buffs as possible.
The top 10 list was imperium not wolves. But it had harald 4 thunder lords a wgbl on wolf and 5 cyberwolves. The rest of army was blange characters in supreme command and ig troops.
Weazel wrote: Has anyone tried any Imperial soup combos with Wolves?
I'm half-seriously contemplating between a small battalion of AM (2x CC, 3x Infantry squad, 2x LRBT) or an Imperial Knight Crusader for roughly the same points cost. Not really sure which would compliment my lists better.
The Knight is a big scary fire magnet with decent firepower whereas the AM detachment would give more board control and I guess roughly the same amount of firepower.
Any reason I should pick one over the other? Or should I plan on getting something else entirely?
I've been working on an AM detachment made of Scions to drop down to grab objectives/deep strike with some LRBT to have some inexpensive fire support.
Weazel wrote: Has anyone tried any Imperial soup combos with Wolves?
I'm half-seriously contemplating between a small battalion of AM (2x CC, 3x Infantry squad, 2x LRBT) or an Imperial Knight Crusader for roughly the same points cost. Not really sure which would compliment my lists better.
The Knight is a big scary fire magnet with decent firepower whereas the AM detachment would give more board control and I guess roughly the same amount of firepower.
Any reason I should pick one over the other? Or should I plan on getting something else entirely?
I run both guard and wolves. My favorite guard setup to toss in is a cadian spearhead woth 3-4 heavy weapon teams with full on lascannons (9-12) and a company commander with laurels of command and master of command. Stand still. Supply refills of 1,s and 2s. Put the hurting. For well under 300 points can get 9 lascanons that outshoot and undercoat the long fang options. The drawback is they struggle to get as good LOS or cover and it adds two drops, making first turn less like
One of the guys I played against runs AM for tanks and command points but then drops Bjorn, one rifle dread, Logan in TDA armour and two full squad of Wulfen into the mix.
The tanks and Dreads hold the line and the Wulfen rock up with cunning of the wolf to hunt any tank-hunters or titans, Logan drops in nearby to give the Wulfen with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields re-rolls to hit.
The biggest issue according to him is facing other Deepstrike armies.
Weazel wrote: At the moment I'm kind of leaning towards a more elite SW force, meaning TWC, Terminators, Wulfen... so maybe the Knight then?
You’ve gotta be real selective who you take TWC and Terminators against right now. TWC will crumble vs mass small arms fire and smite. Terminators are unable to move around once they drop in and can get caught in bad positions. Might wanna wait until codex comes out for some better buffs to make them more effective. The wolf guard on bikes are legit tho. Storm bolters and storm shields are only a 7 points combined and can really be effective with a wolf lord leading them.
Weazel wrote: At the moment I'm kind of leaning towards a more elite SW force, meaning TWC, Terminators, Wulfen... so maybe the Knight then?
You’ve gotta be real selective who you take TWC and Terminators against right now. TWC will crumble vs mass small arms fire and smite. Terminators are unable to move around once they drop in and can get caught in bad positions. Might wanna wait until codex comes out for some better buffs to make them more effective. The wolf guard on bikes are legit tho. Storm bolters and storm shields are only a 7 points combined and can really be effective with a wolf lord leading them.
Well the last game I played it finally really hit me that assault is dead in 8th. I wanted so much to believe that a mainly CC army was viable but no, it just doesn't work. At least not with Wolves that is. Not enough damage and the fall back mechanics are just detrimental to our performance.
Wulfen were great, they have the speed and the hitting power to truly make an impact in CC. Also their bubbles are pretty nifty if you want to run other assaulty elements. However they drop pretty fast to shooting once their initial target is destroyed / falls back.
Terminator are just plain bad. They are very slow and they lack the oomph. And while 2W and 2+/3++ is decent they just drop to focused fire once their target has fallen back from melee.
TWC are fast and pretty durable, but they seriously lack in the damage department. 2 attacks per dude is just way too few. I'm not saying I want 5 S10 attacks back (well I kinda do ) but they need something more to make them a worthwhile pick.
This is kinda contradictory since I won the game and it was against none other than CWE. However my mate was very rusty and I managed to catch him off-guard with my Wulfen, Arjac and 2 packs of Terminators successfully pulling off 3 charges of 4. After the initial hit it was an uphill battle for me. Had he not lost his Dark Reapers first turn I would surely have lost in a big way.
This is why I acquired some IG tanks and infantry and I'm going to push my lists towards way more dakka and much fewer (if any) dedicated assault elements.
TWC now work as anti infantry essentially. They don't have just 2 attacks, they have 5 because you have to count the big wolf. A stock dude has 2 S4 AP- and 3 S5 AP-1, best use for that squad is to go against infantries in order to make the mount attacks effective.
Bikers are not more durable at all, they're also quite expensive and suffer the anti tank a lot. They're both anti infantries units, TWC are close combat oriented and the bikers are a shooty unit, IMHO they compete for the same role. I usually equip half my TWC with claws, the other ones have the free chainsword and they're the first models to be removed as casualties, eventually I just equip the leader with a hammer to make the unit a bit more versatile.
Terminators are not very effective only because too many armies have cheap screeners. Wulfen perform better because they're faster and can deliver more hits. But they're not extremely bad, especially if you have Arjac in the lot.
Blackie wrote: TWC now work as anti infantry essentially. They don't have just 2 attacks, they have 5 because you have to count the big wolf. A stock dude has 2 S4 AP- and 3 S5 AP-1, best use for that squad is to go against infantries in order to make the mount attacks effective.
Bikers are not more durable at all, they're also quite expensive and suffer the anti tank a lot. They're both anti infantries units, TWC are close combat oriented and the bikers are a shooty unit, IMHO they compete for the same role. I usually equip half my TWC with claws, the other ones have the free chainsword and they're the first models to be removed as casualties, eventually I just equip the leader with a hammer to make the unit a bit more versatile.
Terminators are not very effective only because too many armies have cheap screeners. Wulfen perform better because they're faster and can deliver more hits. But they're not extremely bad, especially if you have Arjac in the lot.
I know how the TWC work, and while the wolves can bite I still feel they are not overly effective against anything but light/medium infantry, even with the TH mixed in. In 7th they were our heavy hitters, but sure enough their role is completely different now. The only things that are very good at hitting heavily in CC are the Dreads, but we all know how well they survive the slog across the table. Maybe if I stack up on IG tanks the Dreads might have a better chance of surviving the AT onslaught, who knows...
All I'm saying is that while I love the fantasy of furious Space Vikings smashing in faces, that is not something that happens with great effect in the game of Warhammer 40000 8th Edition.
Axe/Shield Dreads slog across the table pretty well. Turn one they Run/Smoke. Turn two if your opponent isn't castling in his deployment zone you have a decent chance at getting them stuck in.
Well the last game I played it finally really hit me that assault is dead in 8th.
You need to set it up whenever possible to lock at least one model in CC with you. You should be looking for opportunities to do so with every assault. You have 6" of move during the fight phase, use it. I will often charge the unit i want to hit and a transport and then not throw any attacks at the transport. If you can get models around it enough that there is no room for it to withdraw you are golden. It cannot move through your models.
Blackie wrote: TWC now work as anti infantry essentially. They don't have just 2 attacks, they have 5 because you have to count the big wolf. A stock dude has 2 S4 AP- and 3 S5 AP-1, best use for that squad is to go against infantries in order to make the mount attacks effective.
Bikers are not more durable at all, they're also quite expensive and suffer the anti tank a lot. They're both anti infantries units, TWC are close combat oriented and the bikers are a shooty unit, IMHO they compete for the same role. I usually equip half my TWC with claws, the other ones have the free chainsword and they're the first models to be removed as casualties, eventually I just equip the leader with a hammer to make the unit a bit more versatile.
Terminators are not very effective only because too many armies have cheap screeners. Wulfen perform better because they're faster and can deliver more hits. But they're not extremely bad, especially if you have Arjac in the lot.
I know how the TWC work, and while the wolves can bite I still feel they are not overly effective against anything but light/medium infantry, even with the TH mixed in. In 7th they were our heavy hitters, but sure enough their role is completely different now. The only things that are very good at hitting heavily in CC are the Dreads, but we all know how well they survive the slog across the table. Maybe if I stack up on IG tanks the Dreads might have a better chance of surviving the AT onslaught, who knows...
All I'm saying is that while I love the fantasy of furious Space Vikings smashing in faces, that is not something that happens with great effect in the game of Warhammer 40000 8th Edition.
I understand, I used to play the TWC as anti infantry even in 7th since with 10 of them I also fielded 10-15 wulfen. In the previous edition I usually kitted my TWC with just a few SS and no other upgrades as I wanted to field lots of bodies and let the heavy CC to the wulfen and the HQ. Multiple TWC were deadly even without fists and hammers due the Rending special rule, and thanks to their speed they were also efficient tarpitters. I never liked the 5-6 man super killy squad with all AP2 weapons and 3+ invulns, joined by other super deadly HQs, eventually by some allies. I think it was something that should be corrected and I'm glad that the deathstar of superfriends on thunderwolves doesn't exist anymore.
Wulfen can hit eavily in CC even in this edition, their rule to fight another round if they die means lots of S10 hits. And they can outflank by stratagem or be carried by the stormwolf or land raider, while dreads are really slow and a smart opponent will avoid them. I consider dreads a bit overrated to be honest, even bjorn.
But we don't have our codex yet, and maybe in a few months SW will become the close combat monsters they deserve to be
I definitely understand what your saying Weazel, but I don't know if I agree 100%.
I ended up redoing my sw force recently (buddy challenged me to make a 2000 pt list with 100$ so I bought a lot of infantry from ebay) and this is what I came up with.
Murderfang is a beast. He is a chr and a dreadnought so he can't get targeted unless he is closest which means it won't happen unless your either screwed either way or you want it to.
Wulfen, I equip mine with thunder hammers and storm shields. Their job is not as much to actually do damage (though they obviously can) but to buff blood claws and survive, which they do decently well.
Mass blood claws and sky claws are incredibly effective with the wulfen buffing them. Add a wolf priest and suddenly your cheap guys do 4 attacks on the charge rerolling hits.
I agree with the thunderwolves. I set mine up with 2 storm shields for protection and the rest chainswords because they need to be cheap at this point to make them worth taking and even then they are not all that. I would rather take more wulfen.
Thats my main assault force, I throw long fangs or Grey Hunters in for fire Support normally. My win / loss at this point is 4/6 against marines and tyranids mostly. Not to shabby for an index army.
Dual storm bolter rhinos do what needs to be done. In general, I see MORE twin assault canon razorbacks fielding small grey Hunter squads with wulfen outflanking as the main aloha strike, but if you need to move ten man squads around, rhino > drop pod this edition.
Bjorn, Murderfang and venerable dreads can all murder things in CC really well. TWC can too, but I find they are best tooled to kill infantry (because the extra teeth and claw attacks aren’t that great against other things), where Wulfen are better suited for targeting elite enemies. The thunderwolves get costly fast and have almost no REAL benefit over wulfen, considering they can’t outflank and their storm shields cost too much. On the flip side, woth just chainsworfs and bolt pistols they aren’t that expensive and can annihilate blobs pretty consistently on the charge.
Another topic completely: What’s everyone’s preferred weapons for an ironpriest biker? normal hammer and bolter the way most people run then, or go all the way with tempest hammer and hellfrost pistol?
Erik the Red wrote: Dual storm bolter rhinos do what needs to be done. In general, I see MORE twin assault canon razorbacks fielding small grey Hunter squads with wulfen outflanking as the main aloha strike, but if you need to move ten man squads around, rhino > drop pod this edition.
Bjorn, Murderfang and venerable dreads can all murder things in CC really well. TWC can too, but I find they are best tooled to kill infantry (because the extra teeth and claw attacks aren’t that great against other things), where Wulfen are better suited for targeting elite enemies. The thunderwolves get costly fast and have almost no REAL benefit over wulfen, considering they can’t outflank and their storm shields cost too much. On the flip side, woth just chainsworfs and bolt pistols they aren’t that expensive and can annihilate blobs pretty consistently on the charge.
Another topic completely: What’s everyone’s preferred weapons for an ironpriest biker? normal hammer and bolter the way most people run then, or go all the way with tempest hammer and hellfrost pistol?
Normal hammer. Temest bonuses don't mean anything 90% of the time and really when do you want your iron priest in cc? He is better off doing his repair job, which should be why he was taken. Otherwise there are better options for pure melee Biker hq's.
Weazel wrote: At the moment I'm kind of leaning towards a more elite SW force, meaning TWC, Terminators, Wulfen... so maybe the Knight then?
You’ve gotta be real selective who you take TWC and Terminators against right now. TWC will crumble vs mass small arms fire and smite. Terminators are unable to move around once they drop in and can get caught in bad positions. Might wanna wait until codex comes out for some better buffs to make them more effective. The wolf guard on bikes are legit tho. Storm bolters and storm shields are only a 7 points combined and can really be effective with a wolf lord leading them.
Well the last game I played it finally really hit me that assault is dead in 8th. I wanted so much to believe that a mainly CC army was viable but no, it just doesn't work. At least not with Wolves that is. Not enough damage and the fall back mechanics are just detrimental to our performance.
Wulfen were great, they have the speed and the hitting power to truly make an impact in CC. Also their bubbles are pretty nifty if you want to run other assaulty elements. However they drop pretty fast to shooting once their initial target is destroyed / falls back.
Terminator are just plain bad. They are very slow and they lack the oomph. And while 2W and 2+/3++ is decent they just drop to focused fire once their target has fallen back from melee.
TWC are fast and pretty durable, but they seriously lack in the damage department. 2 attacks per dude is just way too few. I'm not saying I want 5 S10 attacks back (well I kinda do ) but they need something more to make them a worthwhile pick.
This is kinda contradictory since I won the game and it was against none other than CWE. However my mate was very rusty and I managed to catch him off-guard with my Wulfen, Arjac and 2 packs of Terminators successfully pulling off 3 charges of 4. After the initial hit it was an uphill battle for me. Had he not lost his Dark Reapers first turn I would surely have lost in a big way.
This is why I acquired some IG tanks and infantry and I'm going to push my lists towards way more dakka and much fewer (if any) dedicated assault elements.
Assault isn't dead in 8th, the Wolves aren't a dedicated close combat army in 8th. If they were they would have psychic powers or abilities to boost them forwards like just about every other dedicated close combat army does and some who aren't do anyway.
Even in the fluff the Wolves are a generalist, jack of all trades type army who can take some tough melee units.
Assault still works well in 8th. My typical list usual has 1 unit of Wulfen, 2 blizz Dreads, 1unit of 4-5 TWC and a screening Fenrisan Wolf Unit. I have the Wulfen go on hunt while the rest of the army moves up the board. What makes the list work is that I've created target priority issues for the opponent. Even if one unit dosen't make it to CC, the rest definitely will.
Norfallen wrote: Assault still works well in 8th. My typical list usual has 1 unit of Wulfen, 2 blizz Dreads, 1unit of 4-5 TWC and a screening Fenrisan Wolf Unit. I have the Wulfen go on hunt while the rest of the army moves up the board. What makes the list work is that I've created target priority issues for the opponent. Even if one unit dosen't make it to CC, the rest definitely will.
That's pretty close to my list as well. 5 Wulfen with storm shields, 5 thunderwolves, murderfang and his buddies venerable Rick and Morty, and then as many blood claws and sky claws as I can afford. Works really well most of the time, but I haven't ran it against eldar or any primarchs so take it for what it's worth.
I ran an IG battalion (3 inf sq, 2 LRBT) and a SW battalion (3x GH + AC Razorbacks, 2x MLLF) and it worked surprisingly well against a Nurgle Daemon army. He didn' have any ranged damage outside of Smite so I pretty much got to grind him down while he advanced toward me. They are super tough though, and it wasn't a trivial ordeal.
I've tried gunning him down with a pure SW list but have failed twice, so I'm pleased.
So I have a long time friend bringing his bugs over for a game on wed. He entombed using 36 ripper swarm bases and 9 pyrovores and a sporocyst. My guess is the pyrovores will be doing lots of mortal wounds and the rippers will be trying to tunnel in and tie up units. Being an elite army how can I deal with this if I don't have anything but marines? Originally I was going to bring a land raider crusader but I thought more bodies might be better. Here is the list I built not knowing what he will truly bring and add on what I actually own.
Long Fangs [7 PL, 170pts] . Long Fang: Missile launcher
. Long Fang: Missile launcher
. Long Fang: Missile launcher
. Long Fang: Missile launcher
. Long Fang Pack Leader: Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Plan is to fill my deployment just right with units so he can't deepstrike behind me. Then place wulfen, bloodclaws and Lukas on the hunt. Other fast units will advance to shoot high value targets and take objectives. Ideas?
Am writing a list for a 2v2 tournament with 1000 points each, my buddy is spamming battlesuits and tau commanders. I was thinking a Wolf Guard Jumppack blob supported by Wulfen, Blood Claws in Rhinos and Wolf Lord and Priest would work?
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: So I have a long time friend bringing his bugs over for a game on wed. He entombed using 36 ripper swarm bases and 9 pyrovores and a sporocyst. My guess is the pyrovores will be doing lots of mortal wounds and the rippers will be trying to tunnel in and tie up units. Being an elite army how can I deal with this if I don't have anything but marines? Originally I was going to bring a land raider crusader but I thought more bodies might be better. Here is the list I built not knowing what he will truly bring and add on what I actually own.
Long Fangs [7 PL, 170pts] . Long Fang: Missile launcher
. Long Fang: Missile launcher
. Long Fang: Missile launcher
. Long Fang: Missile launcher
. Long Fang Pack Leader: Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Plan is to fill my deployment just right with units so he can't deepstrike behind me. Then place wulfen, bloodclaws and Lukas on the hunt. Other fast units will advance to shoot high value targets and take objectives. Ideas?
If your worried about getting tied up use some jump packs for being able to jump back out of "lock up" combat. Also I find that on bikes vets are amazing with storm bolters and a few storm shields. That's 8 shots per guy at 12", or dead rippers for days vs putting the storm bolters on your jump wolf guard.
But it's a solid list, let us know how you do! Your right, body spam can work wonders. Especially when someone expects tanks and finds their anti tank has no good targets.
Those wolf guard bikers desperately need a few storm shields in the unit, they're super expensive 2W models with no save if targeted by the anti tank.
I also agree with Azuza001, they're amazing with stormbolters because they're way cheaper and stormbolters matches the twin bolters and chainswords perfectly, making the unit a dedicated anti infantry.
If you really want wolf guards with combi plasmas give those weapons to the jump pack dudes, which can arrive in deepstrike without suffering casualties.
I agree the jump pack guys would be better use of the combi plas but in this particular match up I wanted to spread out my anti infantry a little. My opponent is planning on bringing 36 ripper swarms. Didn't want to put all my eggs in one basket.
So I modified my above space wolves force the other day by removing the bikers and adding a full squad of boltstorm agressors. It was a great victory for the the wolves against my tyranid opponent. He dealt a crazy amount of mortal wounds and made it difficult to outflank him by the way he deployed but I made it work. The wulfen did a lot of heavy lifting. I changed the list more for future games. I maxed out the wulfen squad, traded out the biker lord for Harald deathwolf, added the bikers back in wth the stormbolters and storm shields recommended. I also increased the size of my jumppack wolfguard and changed my troops around to plasma grey hunters that will be riding in a drop pod. Should get plasma shots wherever I really needed it. 2 suicide squads. Probably to support harald and the wulfen.
I've had great success wth my wulfen and wolfguard in either bikes or jumppacks. Outflank the wulfen and deepstrike a wolf priest with them. Stormbolters wolfguard. Bikes with storm shields are great for shooting hordes or chaff. I also love using harald deathwolf as an Hq because he can outflank naturally without the strategem. I feel grey hunters are lack luster right now from my experience. Long fangs are tried and true I use them with missiles because they can hurt big thing or frag hordes. Mostly I play what I like I don't spam anything crazy. I'm hoping we will get our codex after these other 3 that just got announced. Seriously who cares about deathwatch. Space wolves are more popular and have been around longer.
Wulfen with the outflanking stratagem, I agree. Probably the only auto take in the codex.
Long fangs are good but always go for the biggest size with at least 2 stock dudes, so no more than 4 special weapons. Grey hunters are there to screen the razorbacks and the long fangs, eventually to sit on an objective.
I usually bring 2 deepstriking/outflanking units and two fast ones to keep pressure. Wulfen, terminators, 4-5 TWC and 5-6 bikes. Plus arjac to buff all of them but wulfen. A wolf priest with jump pack is an excellent choice as well.
I have found Grey Hunters doing very well for me, certainly much better than tactical Marines. 2 Attacks each is decent but their real value comes from the fact that you can spam more special weapons per squad that other flavours of Marine.
A 5-man squad with a WGPL can have 1 plasma/melta gun and 2 combi weapons. Add a frost weapon or two and stick them in an assault cannon Razorback and you have a very punchy squad with plenty of firepower, decent mobility and ObjSec.
I never run without at least 20 Hunters and they have performed very solidly in 8th, even against lists that have a full codex.
Karhedron wrote: I have found Grey Hunters doing very well for me, certainly much better than tactical Marines. 2 Attacks each is decent but their real value comes from the fact that you can spam more special weapons per squad that other flavours of Marine.
A 5-man squad with a WGPL can have 1 plasma/melta gun and 2 combi weapons. Add a frost weapon or two and stick them in an assault cannon Razorback and you have a very punchy squad with plenty of firepower, decent mobility and ObjSec.
I never run without at least 20 Hunters and they have performed very solidly in 8th, even against lists that have a full codex.
I hate to burst your bubble, but you need to check the index. Unfortunately your Grey hunter pack leader CAN'T take a combi-weapon.
-A Grey Hunter Pack Leader may take a chainsword, power ace, power fist or power sword.
-A Wolf Guard Pack Leader may replace his chainsword with an item from the Space Wolves Melee list; he may also replace his bolt pistol with a plasma pistol or an item from the Space WOlves Combi-weapons list.
So you can have a 6 man squad with 1x plasma gun, 1x combi-plasma and 1x plasma pistol... That's the most shooty a 6 man squad can be.
Karhedron wrote: I have found Grey Hunters doing very well for me, certainly much better than tactical Marines. 2 Attacks each is decent but their real value comes from the fact that you can spam more special weapons per squad that other flavours of Marine.
A 5-man squad with a WGPL can have 1 plasma/melta gun and 2 combi weapons. Add a frost weapon or two and stick them in an assault cannon Razorback and you have a very punchy squad with plenty of firepower, decent mobility and ObjSec.
I never run without at least 20 Hunters and they have performed very solidly in 8th, even against lists that have a full codex.
I hate to burst your bubble, but you need to check the index. Unfortunately your Grey hunter pack leader CAN'T take a combi-weapon.
-A Grey Hunter Pack Leader may take a chainsword, power ace, power fist or power sword.
-A Wolf Guard Pack Leader may replace his chainsword with an item from the Space Wolves Melee list; he may also replace his bolt pistol with a plasma pistol or an item from the Space WOlves Combi-weapons list.
So you can have a 6 man squad with 1x plasma gun, 1x combi-plasma and 1x plasma pistol... That's the most shooty a 6 man squad can be.
This.
he probably meant pistol. That is 4 plasma shots at 12" which is great but I still feel that my points are better spent elsewhere. I don't have ob sec come up that often and I'd say rarely. Space wolves are elite anyway and I don't have razorbacks to spam. I guess this is why I prefer wolfguard supported by characters. I can kit them to whatever purpose I need and don't have a problem paying for it.
Lately I prefer my troops all be imperial guard infantry squads... space wolf for wulfen, Dakka bikers, bjorn, maybe long Fangs with plasma canons... those are my fave space wolf units atm. I need to toy around with some jump pack wolf guard though, as I really haven’t tried that at all this edition.
I don't think the new FAQ has affected us in any way really? The only thing I can see having an impact is maybe the deep strike but the new battallion for additional CP is pretty nice. Gives us some CP to play with finally for outflanking.
Anyone see anything interesting? I am assuming we didn't really get any changes in these FAQs because we're coming up soon for a Codex!
Yeah, nothing major for us one way or the other. Our only useful stratagem got nerfed (along with everyone else's reserves) but we gain more CPs for our Troops.
FNP-style saves no longer stack so I guess Bjorn will be getting our First Strike warlord trait from now on.
Karhedron wrote: Yeah, nothing major for us one way or the other. Our only useful stratagem got nerfed (along with everyone else's reserves) but we gain more CPs for our Troops.
FNP-style saves no longer stack so I guess Bjorn will be getting our First Strike warlord trait from now on.
True on Bjorn. I suppose with the way our deep strike stratagem works you may as well wait till turn 2 sometimes anyway? Let the opponent move around or deploy/move in such a way that forces him to do so when you come in off a board edge they are a little more spread out? Just a thought... hrm.
I've had a lot of success turn 2 with outflanking my wulfen. Turn 1 I had issues because opponent had not spread out enough. I'm not really affected by the new deepstrike for my uses. Nice to stop my opponents though hehe.
Karhedron wrote: Yeah, nothing major for us one way or the other. Our only useful stratagem got nerfed (along with everyone else's reserves) but we gain more CPs for our Troops.
I suppose with the way our deep strike stratagem works you may as well wait till turn 2 sometimes anyway? Let the opponent move around or deploy/move in such a way that forces him to do so when you come in off a board edge they are a little more spread out? Just a thought... hrm.
Swings and roundabouts there. Some horde armies can cover so much of the mid-field out so much that by Turn 2, you will struggle to come on near any valuable targets.
Karhedron wrote: Yeah, nothing major for us one way or the other. Our only useful stratagem got nerfed (along with everyone else's reserves) but we gain more CPs for our Troops.
I suppose with the way our deep strike stratagem works you may as well wait till turn 2 sometimes anyway? Let the opponent move around or deploy/move in such a way that forces him to do so when you come in off a board edge they are a little more spread out? Just a thought... hrm.
Swings and roundabouts there. Some horde armies can cover so much of the mid-field out so much that by Turn 2, you will struggle to come on near any valuable targets.
There will always be some scenario where it isn't as effective. Nothing should be 100% workable . We will still crush them in the name of the All Father! We'll just adjust our tactics.
In that scenario I would probably use it to keep units I want safe to remain safe and sweep up a specific table edge that they can then come in from and aid the rest of the army. Just a thought.
I recently got my SW out of cold storage. They were originally put together during the original 13th Black Crusade (2003ish???) Since then I've had a couple unopened boxes of 3rd edition stuff, and a couple things I never assembled when they got a 6th edition codex.
My hypothetical 2000 point list in my head:
Canis
Thunderwolf Lord with thunderhammer and bolt pistol
Dreadnought with mulitmelta, fist, stormbolter
Dreadnought with Assault cannon, fist, storm bolter
15 bare Bloodclaws, plus Wolfguard with frost ax
15 bare Bloodclaws, plus Wolfguard with frost sword
10 Grey hunters (max plasma and fist) plus Wolfguard with plasma and fist
10 Grey hunters (max plasma and fist) plus Wolfguard with plasma and fist
15 Fenrisian wolves plus cyberwolf
15 Fenrisian wolves plus cyberwolf
6 Long Fangs with 5 lascannon plus Terminator Wolfguard with cyclone launcher.
Not the most effective list, but definitely a horde army. 95 guys plus 2 vehicles.
Nice list of models there. I would suggest getting some wulfen, they will really make the blood claws better all around. But definitely a use able, fun, list.
The biggest problem I have with my army is that I've caught flak for using "proxies". My Fenrisian wolves are Fantasy Dire Wolves/ Goblin wolves. I've even been told that certain groups in the area wouldn't allow them.
The thing is, that when I bought them, they were actually sold as Fenrisian Wolves. Back in 2003 they simply repackaged the old Fantasy models as official 40k models. People don't really believe me, despite having old White Dwarfs and codexes that show it.
I actually had quite some success with DS abusing, having only a handful of single cyberwolves and 2 stuffed rhinos on the board. Guess that's history now. Will probably switch over to 6 MSUGHs with max plasma for 2 battalions
cuda1179 wrote: The biggest problem I have with my army is that I've caught flak for using "proxies". My Fenrisian wolves are Fantasy Dire Wolves/ Goblin wolves. I've even been told that certain groups in the area wouldn't allow them.
The thing is, that when I bought them, they were actually sold as Fenrisian Wolves. Back in 2003 they simply repackaged the old Fantasy models as official 40k models. People don't really believe me, despite having old White Dwarfs and codexes that show it.
Screw those people. They're really going to cry about a proxy Fenrisian wolf? That is ridiculous. I say just keep doing it.
Agreed it would be a different story if you proxie a bioncle and called it a dreadnought. I've been using ork scratch built stuff for years that are a departure from what gw sells. I usually get compliments at my FLGS. If someone gave me crap I'd tell them to pound sand.
There is nothing wrong with proxying like things to make your army, if your playing 40k with games workshop model's and it fits your theme, or if that's what existed when you got them (my dark eldar witches for example are from fantasy because when I bought them back in 3rd there wasn't a wych model) as long as your consistent you should be fine. Anyone trying to shame you for using chaos wolves as fenrisian wolves need to chill out and get off their high horse. I have 2 wolves from back then just like you, they came from fantasy because that's what existed.
Heck, even not using gw's models can be fine if you have a reason for it. I am not talking about using Lego figures for your army, but there are a lot of amazing 3rd party models out there for plastic sisters of battle for example that I would rather see across the table from me than the real old pewter ones.
Sorry, rant over lol. :p it's just smug "you can't play with your models because I say it's not ok" bothers me, and I have seen it too much throughout the years. Same with people who won't play if all of your models don't have 3 colors on them. Say what?
Having said all of that I have a question, the stormwolf ship, what's it's best loadout? I bought one cheap on a whim (20$) that needs to be finished, is it better with the big hellfrost or the cheaper cost / more transport? I am thinking of using it but not actually transporting anything as its already going to be a target.
Azuza001 wrote: Having said all of that I have a question, the stormwolf ship, what's it's best loadout? I bought one cheap on a whim (20$) that needs to be finished, is it better with the big hellfrost or the cheaper cost / more transport? I am thinking of using it but not actually transporting anything as its already going to be a target.
It is one of the few vehicles that can transport Wulfen so it is popular in that role. Kinda all your eggs in one basket, especially in smaller games.
Wouldn't it be better as a stand alone unit and put the wulfen as a reserve using the stratagem? I ask because my wolf army is focused on using blood claws getting their bonus off of the wulfen, not the wulfen doing something (though they are wulfen and will kill something over dead if you set them to do that). Putting them in the ship seems like you said, putting all eggs in one basket. I dont like doing that myself, kinda the reason that my land raider never gets used now that I think about it, it's just to costly.
Oh well, worst case I get it for 30$ (20$ plus the cost for the final parts) and have a center piece for the wolf army.
So with the new errata if you are an infantry you can not assault other units on terrain floors if you dont fit, which is very easy for a shooty opponent to achieve. Combine that with the fact that dreads, bikers and t-wolves cant assault units on terrain floors and "rip" assault phase. Your shooty opponent just sits on ruin floors and shoots you while being immune to charge
That's why you have pistols? All jokes aside it does suck, but it can be delt with. I have been toying with the idea of 3 whirlwinds with a leutinant for weakening up a floor of infantry that needs a good assaulting. In a cityscape game it could be very helpful.
lonewolf81 wrote: So with the new errata if you are an infantry you can not assault other units on terrain floors if you dont fit, which is very easy for a shooty opponent to achieve. Combine that with the fact that dreads, bikers and t-wolves cant assault units on terrain floors and "rip" assault phase. Your shooty opponent just sits on ruin floors and shoots you while being immune to charge
This is why Space Wolves armies need to have a good combo of shooty and assault elements. We can even ally in some shooty stuff if our own isn't doing the trick.
Ive been thinking a Melta Stormfang gunship with a small GH or BC unit inside has potential. Expensive, but it forces thorough screening of keystone large models that really don’t want to eat four MM shots and some Helfrost on turn one. Place it where it is tricky to surround or kill, and it could drop off an obsec unit that can kick a placeholder unit off an objective or stop a gunner unit from shooting next turn.
I have been having an incredible lot of success over the last few days running a space wolf / dark angel army. My wolf side of the list is
Wolf lord on thunderwolf with kraken sword and storm shield
Wolf guard battle leader on thunderwolf with thunder hammer and storm shield
Lukas the trickster
3 x 5 man blood claws squads bare (as cheap as possible)
Stormwolf with 2x twin heavy bolters, twin laz, hellfrost cannon.
The dark angels side keeps changing because it keeps either dying very quick or just not performing, but the wolves, oh my. I put all 3 squads and lukas into the stormwolf and fly it up a flank, the lords head towards the biggest, closest target they see (one game they took out an entire 10 man hellblasters squad in 1 round of combat because they were NOT having it after the hellblasters killed a dark angels land raider crusader in a single round of shooting, it was glorious!).
To be fair to the angels they have been targeted first each game (who let's plasma cannon devs just sit there with weapons of the dark ages avaliable?) but I am wondering where to go with the wolves if I wanted to drop the angels all together. I mean, lukas loves his +1 attack and str, and the dark angels librarian loves his ld 10 for mind wipe, but the wolves are only 845 pts of my 2k list and have really been doing the heavy lifting. So like I said, if I was to make this pure wolf what would you guys do? I am thinking of keeping with the blood claws idea they are just so nasty in a fight, but I don't want to hamper my army before it gets further fleshed out.
Azuza001 wrote: I have been having an incredible lot of success over the last few days running a space wolf / dark angel army. My wolf side of the list is
Wolf lord on thunderwolf with kraken sword and storm shield
Wolf guard battle leader on thunderwolf with thunder hammer and storm shield
Lukas the trickster
3 x 5 man blood claws squads bare (as cheap as possible)
Stormwolf with 2x twin heavy bolters, twin laz, hellfrost cannon.
The dark angels side keeps changing because it keeps either dying very quick or just not performing, but the wolves, oh my. I put all 3 squads and lukas into the stormwolf and fly it up a flank, the lords head towards the biggest, closest target they see (one game they took out an entire 10 man hellblasters squad in 1 round of combat because they were NOT having it after the hellblasters killed a dark angels land raider crusader in a single round of shooting, it was glorious!).
To be fair to the angels they have been targeted first each game (who let's plasma cannon devs just sit there with weapons of the dark ages avaliable?) but I am wondering where to go with the wolves if I wanted to drop the angels all together. I mean, lukas loves his +1 attack and str, and the dark angels librarian loves his ld 10 for mind wipe, but the wolves are only 845 pts of my 2k list and have really been doing the heavy lifting. So like I said, if I was to make this pure wolf what would you guys do? I am thinking of keeping with the blood claws idea they are just so nasty in a fight, but I don't want to hamper my army before it gets further fleshed out.
It really depends on what you want your Wolf force to be. Personally, it's a really tough decision to try to explain because our upcoming Codex might change a lot of what we have. But the stuff that is ours alone that I can recommend is our version of the venerable dreadnaught and wulfen. Thundercav atm just aren't performing very well for me but they are a ton of fun to have so I would recommend them for that. They will likely be great again with a Codex update.
Grey Hunters are a good addition, though they don't seem as great on paper, if you want special weapons. Have 6 Grey Hunters, 2 with special weapons, 1 pack leader with something and a wolfguard with a combi-whatever. That's a 10 man squad that lets you have a potential of 3 plasma guns in it, or 3 melta, or 3 flamers. All with chainswords. The pack leader and wolf guard can have a combination of power fist/frost sword as well for when you get into melee.
We have a number of good special characters as well. Arjac Rockfist is great to run with Wolf Guard. Bjorn is a good dreadnaught character, as is murderfang.
GHs need to be 10 strong (including WG pack leader) to take 2 specials.
Your DAs are probably the reason why your flyer performs so well. If those devastators aren't there to scare your enemy, he will probably focus your flyer and kill it T1
Ragnar69 wrote: GHs need to be 10 strong (including WG pack leader) to take 2 specials.
Your DAs are probably the reason why your flyer performs so well. If those devastators aren't there to scare your enemy, he will probably focus your flyer and kill it T1
I have considered this possibility as well. I'm inclined to agree with you, da are a big threat which seem to be giving the wolves the time they need to get to the heart of the enemy.
Grey Hunters seem like a good support option, But a 10 man plasma loadout is 178 pts, a 7 man long fang squad with 4 plasma cannons cost 182 and would probably put out more plasma than that. I think Grey Hunters work better as backup assault support, give a 10 man squad with a wolf guard battle leader with a combi flamer and frost sword / axe and drop them in with rhinos at mid range.
I really like the ideal of Bjorn / murderfang / venerable dreads with blizzard shields moving up the field, but they seem so slow vs the speed I am looking for.
Side note : I thought our codex wasn't due out until the end of the year.
The 10 man squad with 2 plasmas and a combi plasma works well if embarked in a rhino and rushed across the board to support a fast melee unit like TWC with a wolf lord on thunderwolf or another HQ nearby that gives the re-rolls of failed hit rolls of 1. If you want some campers near Bjorn multiple 5 man squads with a single plasma gun are a better choice.
Side note : I thought our codex wasn't due out until the end of the year.
No one knows for sure when it is coming and the people who do know ain't talking. If anyone claims to know for sure when our Dex is dropping they are either lying or violating their NDA in ways that would make a Moise Marine blush.
Ragnar69 wrote: GHs need to be 10 strong (including WG pack leader) to take 2 specials.
Your DAs are probably the reason why your flyer performs so well. If those devastators aren't there to scare your enemy, he will probably focus your flyer and kill it T1
Just to clarify, since this is what I meant when I posted. In the Grey Hunter entry it says "For each 5 models in the unit, one Grey Hunter may replace his boltgun with an item from the Space Wolves Special Weapons list." Its only concern is that there are 10 models, not 10 Grey Hunters. So you only need 9 Grey Hunters, plus the Wolf Guard PL, making it 10 models. Then you can cram it full of 3 plasma.
I have considered this possibility as well. I'm inclined to agree with you, da are a big threat which seem to be giving the wolves the time they need to get to the heart of the enemy.
Grey Hunters seem like a good support option, But a 10 man plasma loadout is 178 pts, a 7 man long fang squad with 4 plasma cannons cost 182 and would probably put out more plasma than that. I think Grey Hunters work better as backup assault support, give a 10 man squad with a wolf guard battle leader with a combi flamer and frost sword / axe and drop them in with rhinos at mid range.
I really like the ideal of Bjorn / murderfang / venerable dreads with blizzard shields moving up the field, but they seem so slow vs the speed I am looking for.
Side note : I thought our codex wasn't due out until the end of the year.
The Longfang squad is indeed a similar price but they serve a different purpose in my eyes. They're a stationary fire support unit and the range of a Plasma cannon is only 36". With the new stratagem we have you can bring the 10 man squad on from the sides to support a TWC charge or the dropped units from the stormfang. In rapid fire range that's a guaranteed 6 plasma shots into something. I know people don't use them much but I have also tried using drop pods to some successful effect. They let me take the full squad of 10 and I drop it on an objective to hold for me while the squad does its dirty work in supporting my heavy hitters.
But you make a good point with your purpose for the Grey Hunters. It's why I mentioned that it's hard to say where to go fully, everyone has their own idea of how to kit the Wolves and really neither is a bad choice (which is nice). Your concept would work as well probably!
Yes, 10 in total including WG. But someone suggested a Minimum Squad with 2 Plasma Guns plus Combo Plasma.
But skyclaws can take 2 specials at min size. I am thinking about 3 flames and deploying them normal, preferable out of LOS. With a 12" move and an advance they have a good chance to fry something t1. The opponent then has to deal with them or they will jump over his screen and engage his heavy weapons, giving some breathing room for your wulfen/twc and support. They would also be a great speedbump VS horde melee rush
Ragnar69 wrote: Yes, 10 in total including WG. But someone suggested a Minimum Squad with 2 Plasma Guns plus Combo Plasma.
But skyclaws can take 2 specials at min size. I am thinking about 3 flames and deploying them normal, preferable out of LOS. With a 12" move and an advance they have a good chance to fry something t1. The opponent then has to deal with them or they will jump over his screen and engage his heavy weapons, giving some breathing room for your wulfen/twc and support. They would also be a great speedbump VS horde melee rush
Be very, very careful when attempting speedbumps. It can be pretty easy for your opponent to stage-manage things so that they shoot all but one or two of your speedbump, and eat D6 auto hits in exchange for turning them into a 2D6+3+3” speed ramp. If they reach your lines a turn area, the extra hits might not be worth it.
Ragnar69 wrote: Yes, 10 in total including WG. But someone suggested a Minimum Squad with 2 Plasma Guns plus Combo Plasma.
But skyclaws can take 2 specials at min size. I am thinking about 3 flames and deploying them normal, preferable out of LOS. With a 12" move and an advance they have a good chance to fry something t1. The opponent then has to deal with them or they will jump over his screen and engage his heavy weapons, giving some breathing room for your wulfen/twc and support. They would also be a great speedbump VS horde melee rush
Be very, very careful when attempting speedbumps. It can be pretty easy for your opponent to stage-manage things so that they shoot all but one or two of your speedbump, and eat D6 auto hits in exchange for turning them into a 2D6+3+3” speed ramp. If they reach your lines a turn area, the extra hits might not be worth it.
Happened to me yesterday against genestealers. They are already fast movers but they roll 3d6 taking the highest to advance and can use a strategem that lets them move twice. They covered the breath of the board in a turn.
I have a bunch of Wolves I'm thinking of shoring into a decent army. What does a solid list look like for Wolves in 8th? and do you guys think Deathwatch will work well here?
No idea on death watch but there are a couple of good wolf list types out there that work.
My list for example focuses on bloodclaws. I use 3 to 5 squads of 5 of them, Lucas the trickster, some skyclaws, and some wulfen to make a hard hitting force that feeds the bloodclaws. Hq wise I take a wolf Lord and wolf guard battle leader, both on thunderwolves. Put 2 of the 5 man teams in a rhino, 3 and Lucas in a stormwolf, have the wolfen run behind cover when possible and watch the fur fly.
A friend of mine uses grey hunters in razorbacks, 4 of them, putting assault cannons on the backs and dual plasma on the grey hunters. He uses thunderwolf Calvary for support and regular wolves for objective grabbing. It works well for him.
What kind of wolf army are you looking for? Cc? Shoot? Mix of both?
Ilgoth wrote: Do people use any tanks like predators with their lists?
I am actually currently building a list around a theme of a "moving castle" with the deep strike changes. Since I don't feel like I need the scouts as much I'm now testing out Whirlwinds and and Predators. The Predator with an autocannon turret & lascannon sponsons has done some real work. I haven't tried the whirlwind yet. I'll be testing it out this weekend!
I've used three razorbacks with ass cannons very often, but now my wolves are shelved since the codex as I finally got a codex in this edition just a month ago.
Never been a fan of SM tanktìs though, just love the transports, including the crusader and the stormwolf.
Preds with Las cannons on the side are one of the best tanks out there, defiantly can't go wrong with them. I prefer transports as well though, and boots on the ground win you games.
So this is the list I've been toying with. It is only 1750 because a number of my friends that I play with are still catching up/learning the game so we've been playing 1500-1750 games. When it comes to 2000 I will likely just add some Bloodclaws in a Rhino or drop pod or something.
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) ++
+ HQ +
Wolf Guard Battle Leader: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
Wolf Guard Battle Leader: Frost axe, Plasma pistol
+ Troops +
Grey Hunters: 8x Chainsword
Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Power fist
6x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Plasma gun
Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Plasma gun
Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Grey Hunters: 8x Chainsword
Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Power fist
6x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Plasma gun
Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Plasma gun
Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Grey Hunters: 8x Chainsword
Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Power fist
6x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Plasma gun
Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Plasma gun
Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
+ Elites +
Company Ancient: Bolt Pistol
Venerable Dreadnought
Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield: Blizzard shield, Fenrisian great axe
Venerable Dreadnought
Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield: Blizzard shield, Fenrisian great axe
++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) ++
+ HQ +
Iron Priest: Boltgun, Servo-arm, Thunder hammer
+ Heavy Support +
Long Fangs
Long Fang: Plasma cannon
Long Fang: Plasma cannon
Long Fang: Plasma cannon
Long Fang: Plasma cannon
Long Fang Pack Leader: Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Predator: Hunter-killer missile, Predator autocannon
Two Lascannons: 2x Lascannon
So my original plan was to have a little castle set up, use the dreadnoughts as screens for my infantry. Since we're playing with the new beta rules I've changed the idea to be a back line that is supporting the advance of my infantry/noughts that are going to push forward. Thought it would be a fun concept. The only other minor changes I might make is taking away the hunter killer missiles to pay for a jump pack on the Wolf Lord.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: So this is the list I've been toying with. It is only 1750 because a number of my friends that I play with are still catching up/learning the game so we've been playing 1500-1750 games. When it comes to 2000 I will likely just add some Bloodclaws in a Rhino or drop pod or something.
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) ++
+ HQ +
Wolf Guard Battle Leader: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
Wolf Guard Battle Leader: Frost axe, Plasma pistol
+ Troops +
Grey Hunters: 8x Chainsword
Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Power fist
6x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Plasma gun
Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Plasma gun
Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Grey Hunters: 8x Chainsword
Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Power fist
6x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Plasma gun
Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Plasma gun
Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Grey Hunters: 8x Chainsword
Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Power fist
6x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol
Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Plasma gun
Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Plasma gun
Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
+ Elites +
Company Ancient: Bolt Pistol
Venerable Dreadnought
Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield: Blizzard shield, Fenrisian great axe
Venerable Dreadnought
Fenrisian Great Axe and Blizzard Shield: Blizzard shield, Fenrisian great axe
++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) ++
+ HQ +
Iron Priest: Boltgun, Servo-arm, Thunder hammer
+ Heavy Support +
Long Fangs
Long Fang: Plasma cannon
Long Fang: Plasma cannon
Long Fang: Plasma cannon
Long Fang: Plasma cannon
Long Fang Pack Leader: Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Predator: Hunter-killer missile, Predator autocannon
Two Lascannons: 2x Lascannon
So my original plan was to have a little castle set up, use the dreadnoughts as screens for my infantry. Since we're playing with the new beta rules I've changed the idea to be a back line that is supporting the advance of my infantry/noughts that are going to push forward. Thought it would be a fun concept.
I see what your doing there, not bad idea but it does depend on how you and your local play games. If your doing missions I don't see much in objective grabbing or fast push, but If you are looking at a slow advancing force with a castle set up to protect your deployment zone I would suggest looking at the following.
Bjorn is an amazing hq dreadnaught. Because he is a Character you can put him behind the 2 venerable you have and March them all up the field. Add murderfang in for additional wtfs.
A stormwolf is an amazing flying unit. Take it with heavy bolters and watch it always get a squad of hunters and your hq's into position. I just love this thing.
Speaking of hq's, if you can get the points and put them on thunderwolves, make one a wolf Lord and the other a wolf guard pack leader, you have an incredibly powerful duo that can wreck face while taking massive punishment and have some serious speed on their side to get where they need to be.
I see what your doing there, not bad idea but it does depend on how you and your local play games. If your doing missions I don't see much in objective grabbing or fast push, but If you are looking at a slow advancing force with a castle set up to protect your deployment zone I would suggest looking at the following.
Bjorn is an amazing hq dreadnaught. Because he is a Character you can put him behind the 2 venerable you have and March them all up the field. Add murderfang in for additional wtfs.
A stormwolf is an amazing flying unit. Take it with heavy bolters and watch it always get a squad of hunters and your hq's into position. I just love this thing.
Speaking of hq's, if you can get the points and put them on thunderwolves, make one a wolf Lord and the other a wolf guard pack leader, you have an incredibly powerful duo that can wreck face while taking massive punishment and have some serious speed on their side to get where they need to be.
But that list seems pretty good.
Thanks! I am glad you don't think it's terrible lol. This is just something I want to try because it's different. I have bjorn and a Stormwolf (no murderfang though). I like the Stormwolf a lot, I agree it's an awesome flyer! Bjorn I am not sold on though. He is a huge point sink that I always have a hard time justifying but maybe that's because of our limited points in games! At 2k I would definitely put him in!
Since I have a new Daemons army based around a mono-slaanesh build I decided to start building my Wolves differently. I have all the speed/fast push aggression I want from Slaanesh so I thought I'd try a different style with the Wolves since they're more flexible. I kind of built the list around the Iron Wolves Great Company plodding forward with armored might.
I love bjorn, yes he is expensive but I put either assault or plasma cannon on him and he can hold an objective like no ones business. With the 2 venerables your opponent has to get past 3++ saves and 8 wounds just to get to him. And with some objectives it's a great group for defend type games. Their only downside is speed so against faster enemies they will constantly be running. Still, head straight for a squad of dark readers and just keep coming, your opponent will put way too much firepower into them because they must die, can't let them hit our lines. And with 2 dreads with 3++ saves it will take a lot to get through.
Bjorn is a beast and I never leave the Fang without him. His highlight for me in 8th edition was when he tore a Wraithknight in half in a single round of combat. I admit I got a bit lucky with the rolls but not outrageously so.
Before the Big FAQ Bjorn was possibly the best warlord the Wolves had, he could "hide" behind a single Lone Wolf and once he was actually hit with something he was rocking a 3+ armour save that could be a 2+ in cover, 4++ invulnerable save, a 5+ toughness of ancients save and a 6+ warlord trait.
Bjorn was a beast.
Dakka Wolf wrote: Before the Big FAQ Bjorn was possibly the best warlord the Wolves had, he could "hide" behind a single Lone Wolf and once he was actually hit with something he was rocking a 3+ armour save that could be a 2+ in cover, 4++ invulnerable save, a 5+ toughness of ancients save and a 6+ warlord trait.
Bjorn was a beast.
Nothing about the big FAQ changed this? Bjorn also doesn't have a 4++ invuln? Except the silly stacking of FNP rolls.
Good thing I haven't played since the Big FAQ.
I've been had - I was told that characters can no longer "hide" behind characters and Dreads can't be in cover.
Dakka Wolf wrote: Good thing I haven't played since the Big FAQ.
I've been had - I was told that characters can no longer "hide" behind characters and Dreads can't be in cover.
nothing stops dreads from being in cover, but you can't get a 5+++ and a 6+++ you only get one.
Dakka Wolf wrote: Good thing I haven't played since the Big FAQ.
I've been had - I was told that characters can no longer "hide" behind characters and Dreads can't be in cover.
Ah, fair point about not being able to hide behind characters. This is true. Though... who uses Lone Wolves if I am being quite frank? They are so over-costed for little to no benefit. It's far better to hide Bjorn behind a venerable dread with sword and board. A 3++ with 8 wounds blocking everything coming at him until its dead is pretty handy. And now with the new rules, even if the ven dread is behind a wall and can't be seen, Bjorn cannot be targetted. It has to be the closest model to get to the character. LOS or not.
I like using biker lord with the krakenbone sword and the master crafted boltgun. He is fater and tougher then the jumppack version. I run him with a large squad of Wolfguard bikers some of which have storm shields. They are a very effective horde clearing team. And if they get charge and need his help he can heroically intervene.
My favorite character though is Harald death wolf. He is pricey but cheaper then Bjorn. He is 2++ against shooting attacks, fast, tough with lots of wounds and attacks. And the best part is he can Outflank naturally. His outflank is better then the strategem we have. I like to out flank him with my wulfen and deep strike wolf priest.
Azuza001 wrote: I use a wolf Lord on thunderwolf with the krakensword, i prefer the extra attacks for the slightly slower but still damn fast hq.
I want to try harald, he looks awesome.
Harald is certainly decent, but a standard wolf lord on thunderwolf with the relic sword is 70ish points cheaper in an army in which everything is expensive points wise. Wolf lord on thunderwolf mount with that sword is actually my favorite SWHQ. Followed by Njal and Arjac.
I have had a lot of luck with wolf Lord with relic on thunderwolf and wolf guard battle leader on thunderwolf with thunder hammer. Both get storm shields, wolf Lord gets tenacious survivor.
I just had 2 games vs blood angels, played the same mission twice but vs 2 different opponents, both were contact lost. I will post up a report about it later when I have time but blood claws are so awsome.... I mean good Lord these guys rock. So cheap. So many attacks. Lucas the trickster makes them lol all the way to win Ville.
But wolfen, I want to love them but for 238 pts they are so damn expensive. They did fine in the games but they didn't do anything special someone else could not have done. My wolf Lord and Bjorn killed 15 death company by themselves between shooting and charging in.
Both games were contact lost, the mission that you get 1 objective t1 then every other turn you get mission cards for holding objectives, max 6 cards at a time.
Both games here is my list.
Spoiler:
Wolf Lord w/ krakensword, storm shield, on thunderwolf. Warlord w/ tenacious survivor.
Wolf guard battle leader w/ thunder hammer and storm shield.
Bjorn w/ assault cannon
Lukas the trickster
Murderfang
5 wulfen, 4 w/ storm shields and thunderhammers, pack leader w/ frost claws
5 bloodclaws
5 bloodclaws
5 bloodclaws
10 skyclaws
Land raider crusader w/ multimelta, Hunter killer missile, storm bolter
Death company dreadnaught
15 man death company w/ jump packs and a few special cc weapons mixed in
4 servitors, 2 w/ heavy bolters
5 man cc scout squad
5 man sniper scout squad
5 man tactical squad
5 man dev squad, 2 Las cannons, a hb, and a missile launcher
5 man dev squad, 2 Las cannons, a hb, and a missile launcher
A land raider redemptor w/ multi melts
A predator w/ 4 Las cannons
Deployment wise I put the 15 bloodclaws and Lucas in the stormwolf, wolfen in the land raider, and everything up front except the stormwolf which was as far back in the center as we could be. We deployed on the 48" sides of the table. Opponent had his devs back in a corner w/ captain, death company and asorath in deep strike, everything else close up too.
First turn I drew advance, easy enough. Everything takes off forward. Wolfen jump out to run up to an objective, the skyclaws ran up to another one with scouts on it. My land raider drove full speed ahead and ended up 12" away from his predator, he made the mistake of trying to get it in range t1 without moving to hit my stormwolf but with me getting first turn it was in range of scary stuff. Land raider unloaded on the predator and ended up destroying it. Then the stormfang unloaded its big weapons on the death company dreadnaught and the heavy bolters into the first dev squad. It blew the death company dread up and killed 3 of the devs leaving the 2 Las cannons alive. Skyclaws killed a squad of scouts and then consolidated towards the sniper ones.
His turn he fired everything he had from the dev squads including popping the hb mortal wound stratagem at my land raider but he didn't roll as well as I did, doing only 6 wounds to it. He fired the heavy bolter servitors at my stormwolf doing 2 wounds (better than nothing) and moved the land raider up towards the skyclaws. He fired the scouts and land raider at the skyclaws but due to being in cover (they were in some ruins) they only lost 4 guys to all the shooting. He did roll bad for the redemptor fire cannons, only getting 3 auto hits, I had expected the skyclaws to die a glorious yet painful death. He scored nothing (drew secure 2 which was in my deployment zone) but now held 2 objectives.
My turn I drew secure 4 (on it) and take no prisoners (easy enough). Blood claws and Lucas jump out of the ship and move into charge range of the devs. Stormwolf flys up to get a shot on the land raiders rear. Everything else moves up and towards the land raider because it's the main focus of what's left. I left Bjorn on 4 so he could at least still shoot and participate.
I moved the land raider up to get better Los and grab objective 3 cutting his forces in half, took some pot shots at the land raider and missed, then went into the combat phase. I got too excited to get into combat, forgetting to shoot the stormwolf at all. But Lucas and the boys charged and killed most of the devs and wounded his captain, the skyclaws charged with the wolf Lord and wolf guard into the snipers and killed them , then consolidated into the land raider which had gotten too close pulling it in.
His second turn he gets advance, defend 4 (not happening lol) and drops his death company down on 2 with asorath. He backed out of combat with the land raider, unloading the tactical first, and everything shot at the skyclaws because they were blocking being able to shoot what he wanted (Character rules can be annoying). Unfortunately when he did he ended up killing all but 2 and I pulled my dead claws away from the death company , so they lost their charge target.
Rest of the game went downhill for him from there. My 3rd turn I hovered and shot the stormwolf into the land raider dropping it to 4 wounds, killing the captain and remaining dev srg, moving the land raider to go pick up the bloodclaws because there wasn't anything for them to do now on that side of the field, charging murderfang and both hq's into the death company which between shooting it and charging I wiped them out, and charging the wolfen into the tactical marines and Chaplin, saving my skyclaws. He made one valiant effort to try and pull a victory off with the raider, techmarine, and as, drawing objectives that if he could have killed the skyclaws, murderfang, and the stormwolf he would have gotten 4+d3 victory points putting him up by 1, but he couldn't do it. He killed the last 2 skyclaws and charged murderfang dropping him to 2 wounds. Murderfang punched back and killed him, but as has some ability to fight again when he died and killed murderfang at the same time. Close, but the land raider even with the autohit cannons couldn't do anything to the stormwolf. We called it at that.
Game 2
Spoiler:
This one was against a different opponent. I won't go into such details on this one, just hitting on the key points.
10 death company
15 death company w/ jump packs
10 assault terminators, 5 w/ storm shield thunder hammer 5 w/ claws
Land raider redeemed
Predator w/ 4 Las cannons
He got first turn and pushed forwards. His Las pred shot at my stormwolf and did nothing, got lucky there, but scouts did 5 wounds to Bjorn (damn 6's for mortal wounds) and he grabbed 4 objectives.
I push forward, meeting his land raider with mine and did 3 wounds to it. Then I killed the 2 sniper scouts and took that objective. The stormwolf once again flew full speed up and killed the las cannon pred. Murderfang was next to the land raider and grabbed a 2nd one.
He then blitzed me with his death companies and terminators. Death company one jumped out of the land raider and ended up killing murderfang, the 2nd hit and killed Bjorn while taking the objective from me and killing some skyclaws. He also did 6 wounds from his land raider to mine.
My turn 2 I held 0 objectives so drew nothing (not good). But I dropped a squad of claws out of the stormwolf and flew to the next one. I fired everything from the land raider at his getting it down to 3 wounds. I also moved my wolfen onto the board using the stratagem and tried to charge his dreadnaught (which I failed horribly). My wolf Lord and wolf guard battle leader turned around and charged into the death company dropping them to a more manageable size of 6, which the skyclaws then dropped to 3 and getting that objective back. I charged my land raider into his in desperation and ended up killing it with the frag launchers! It exploded and did 6 mortal wounds to me, 6 to his death company, 6 to the leutinant, and 2 to the Chaplin. Talk about painful.
He moved As up and charged my wolf Lord killing him, charged the death company and Chaplin into my land raider which ended up killing both in overwatch (even hitting on 6's that's 28 bolter shots and 12 assault cannon shots), and I also finished the remaining death company near my skyclaws thanks to the wolf guard battle leader.
My turn 3 I held 3 objectives but was behind 1 to 12. I get objectives I can do and get to work on them. I kill As and the last 5 man scout squad, grab 3 more objectives, and earn 5 points total. All he has left is 5 stormshield terminators and a lightning claw term holding 4. He draws defend 4 so moves to a defensive stance. I draw a bunch of easy to do stuff (line breaker, secure 2, secure 3, hold the line, that stuff) and I go to town on his terms. I was trying to kill just enough with 5 bloodclaws and Lucas but between the shooting and cc I drop the terms down to 2 guys (srg is already dead so they are leadership 8, losing 4 guys). He rolls leadership and gets a 6, so they escape due to moral and that's game. After everything was counted I ended up 10 to his 12. If I would have shown restraint at the end and let him have defend 4 he would have had 2 more vp and a new mission but I would have been drawing 5 more and would have easily taken the lead by just keeping away from his terms.
So overall good games. I expected more from blood angels, but they really didn't impress me on the table. Death company die way to quick, the 6+++ save is kind of a joke for their cost. Yeah they hit hard but they cost so much.
Stormwolf again is mvp. That thing is a beast at taking out vehicles, 2 Las cannons and 2 shots with the hellfrost, plus 12 heavy bolter rounds, it does work. Blood claws are still my favorite thing to drop out of them with Lucas, he makes them soo effective on that charge and getting them to what they want to be hitting is so easy it's scary.
Bjorn, murderfang, skyclaws, and even the land raider all did well. I am pretty happy with them.
Wolfen on the other hand not so much. They didn't die which is nice but they also never got into a position either game to help the bloodclaws be awesome. I think they will go on the shelf and I will put 3 squads of 5 grey hunters in the crusader for fire support. I need some reliable cheap objective holders and they can do the job well.
Otherwise a wolf priest or rune priest would have been nice, the wolf priest with the skyclaws could have been quite effective.
Dakka Wolf wrote: Good thing I haven't played since the Big FAQ.
I've been had - I was told that characters can no longer "hide" behind characters and Dreads can't be in cover.
Ah, fair point about not being able to hide behind characters. This is true. Though... who uses Lone Wolves if I am being quite frank? They are so over-costed for little to no benefit. It's far better to hide Bjorn behind a venerable dread with sword and board. A 3++ with 8 wounds blocking everything coming at him until its dead is pretty handy. And now with the new rules, even if the ven dread is behind a wall and can't be seen, Bjorn cannot be targetted. It has to be the closest model to get to the character. LOS or not.
I was.
I use Cyber Wolves for objective grabbing and target negating.
Yes Lone Wolves are over-costed but one in Terminator Armour with a Storm Bolter and Storm Shield meant Bjorn couldn't be targeted by most things and the Lone Wolf could get the same benefit from the Cyber Wolves meaning he often outlasts the Blizzard Dreads.
He fills an Elite slot rather than a HQ slot so I usually take him to use the Battalion detachment but I do often swap him with a WGBL so Bjorn's ranged weapons re-roll 1s to wound - it's a tough call.
I use my wulfen differently then you do. I put them on the hunt and deepstrike a wolf priest with them. I have only failed a charge once since we got the strategem and they survived with their storm sheilds and feel no pains. When they failed my opponent charged them with three ironclad dreads. I turned him to scrap and he regretted not shooting/ kiting them instead. They eat anything I charge with them. The other day they ate 3 ravagers and 3 Archons and only lost 1 wound. I would never waste my time foot slogging them. I play a lot of 1000-1500pt games and I always find time to squeeze them in. Bigger games I take a full 10 man squad.
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: I use my wulfen differently then you do. I put them on the hunt and deepstrike a wolf priest with them. I have only failed a charge once since we got the strategem and they survived with their storm sheilds and feel no pains. When they failed my opponent charged them with three ironclad dreads. I turned him to scrap and he regretted not shooting/ kiting them instead. They eat anything I charge with them. The other day they ate 3 ravagers and 3 Archons and only lost 1 wound. I would never waste my time foot slogging them. I play a lot of 1000-1500pt games and I always find time to squeeze them in. Bigger games I take a full 10 man squad.
If you're talking to me the only difference is that I use Grimnar instead of a Wolf Priest. Thunder Hammers really like re-rolling failed to hit rolls.
I am not giving up hope on them, I just feel that in my list they are overkill for the overkill. If I drop the LRC then I would find room for them, but otherwise they just are not needed.
Dakkawolf- I was talking to Azuza but in that regard the wolf priest would be better because he does the same thing for cheaper. He allows All failed hit in cc to be rerolled plus they use his Ld, plus he can heal units. He is great with a jumppack.
Azuza- I've been wanting to use my LRC but for 300+ pts I can get more dakka and more wounds/ bodies.
Automatically Appended Next Post: To add to my previous posts this is the 1000pt list I've been testing for an upcoming 1k tourney. It's been kicking ass and taking names.
Wolf Guard [20 PL, 168pts]: Jump Packs
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Storm bolter
Wolf Guard on Bikes [28 PL, 288pts] . Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike Pack Leader: Bolt Pistol, Frost sword, Storm bolter
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
Wolf Scouts [6 PL, 100pts] . Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Wolf Scout: Boltgun
. Wolf Scout: Boltgun
. Wolf Scout Pack Leader: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Wolf Scout with Heavy Weapon: Plasma gun
. Wolf Scout with Melee Weapon: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Long Fangs [7 PL, 112pts] . Long Fang: Plasma cannon
. Long Fang: Plasma cannon
. Long Fang: Boltgun
. Long Fang: Boltgun
. Long Fang Pack Leader: Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
I understand on the lrc, I am actually using it as a distraction for the stormwolf. If I had another stormwolf i would take that. I find both of them on the table causes either one to be overkilled or both to survive easy. I am thinking 3 squads of 5 grey hunters in the lrc, each with a plasma gun as objective grabbers and fire support.
Here is an alternative, if I drop the lrc I can put the wolfen back in, stick 2 grey Hunter squads into a rhino, and that leaves 100 pts in a 2k list to play with. What would / could you do with 100 pts? I could flesh the grey hunters out and stick each one in a rhino of their own but I like to keep my infantry squads small and simple to use. Besides we have the best basic troop options of any loyalist marine force, I really want to make them shine.
You could use a plasma scout suicide squad as shown in my list above. They outflank naturally so no need to use a CP. the squad above has 5 plasma shots at 12". You could find 8 pts somewhere and give the wolf guard leader of the squad a combi plas instead giving the squad 6 plasma shots. I obliterated a corvus black star in 1 rd of shooting with overcharged plasma from 5 combi plas wolfguard and a wolflord. People would have to deal with them epescially when they pop a light armored vehicle or kill some big bug or demon. Should give the rest of you force some time to move. Use them to support the outflanking wulfen as I do. I put my wulfen on the hunt 99% of the time.
That extra 6 pts is easy, swap Bjorn from plasma cannon to assault cannon. I like that idea, I will have to try it out. That 6 plasma shots on an enemy flank is pretty useful. Especially if your using it as target clearing.
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: Dakkawolf- I was talking to Azuza but in that regard the wolf priest would be better because he does the same thing for cheaper. He allows All failed hit in cc to be rerolled plus they use his Ld, plus he can heal units. He is great with a jumppack.
I'm a tad embarrassed I never thought of the Wolf Priest over Grimnar, thanks for the tip, I'll be giving that a try.
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: Dakkawolf- I was talking to Azuza but in that regard the wolf priest would be better because he does the same thing for cheaper. He allows All failed hit in cc to be rerolled plus they use his Ld, plus he can heal units. He is great with a jumppack.
I'm a tad embarrassed I never thought of the Wolf Priest over Grimnar, thanks for the tip, I'll be giving that a try.
Never be embarrassed for wanting to bury that great looking axe in a xenos/traitor/daemon skull!
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: Dakkawolf- I was talking to Azuza but in that regard the wolf priest would be better because he does the same thing for cheaper. He allows All failed hit in cc to be rerolled plus they use his Ld, plus he can heal units. He is great with a jumppack.
I'm a tad embarrassed I never thought of the Wolf Priest over Grimnar, thanks for the tip, I'll be giving that a try.
Never be embarrassed for wanting to bury that great looking axe in a xenos/traitor/daemon skull!
Truer words were never spoken Wolf Brother, but I have Lukas for flavour so Grimnar can sit out for the sake of efficiency.
Many armies have received a stratagem that gives extra hits on a 6. If Space Wolves get a similar stratagem then Lukas will become solid gold for Blood Claws.
I hope when the Space Wolf codex comes out, we can get "Traditions of the Great Company" thing for all 12 Great Company. i.e. the Chapter Tactics for each Great Company. In fluff, each GC is the size of a codex compliance Chapter.
Maybe that is my dreams.
But at least, I hope we could have something fir the whole faction that is somehow represnt our old "counter attack" trait. Something buffs our combat ability that fits the barbraous hot headed personality fluff of the Space Wolf.
Neophyte2012 wrote: I hope when the Space Wolf codex comes out, we can get "Traditions of the Great Company" thing for all 12 Great Company. i.e. the Chapter Tactics for each Great Company. In fluff, each GC is the size of a codex compliance Chapter.
Maybe that is my dreams.
But at least, I hope we could have something fir the whole faction that is somehow represnt our old "counter attack" trait. Something buffs our combat ability that fits the barbraous hot headed personality fluff of the Space Wolf.
I was just thinking this myself. Would sure make the wolves very self sufficient, in that you could mix detachments of wolves from different companies instead of imperial souping all the time.
Neophyte2012 wrote: In fluff, each GC is the size of a codex compliance Chapter.
.... No it isn't.
GW has given us fairly complent run downs of Both Logan's Great Company (in the champions of fenris supplement) and Rangar Blackmane's Great company (in, among oth er things, the 7th edition Space Wolf Codex)
Logan's Great company, described invariably as the largest and it numbers 201 space wolves. which is waaaay less then a codex chapter. the space wolves are proably about 2,300 marines in size total
The Wolves are larger than a codex Chapter but far less than a Legion. I would not mind betting that they are not even the largest chapter. Black Templars are supposed to number several thousand IIRC.
Back in 3rd edition there was an article (I think it was Index Astartes) that stated that unlike Codex Chapters, each GC was large enough and had enough resources to operate independently of the rest of the Chapter indefinitely if needed.
Karhedron wrote: The Wolves are larger than a codex Chapter but far less than a Legion. I would not mind betting that they are not even the largest chapter. Black Templars are supposed to number several thousand IIRC.
Back in 3rd edition there was an article (I think it was Index Astartes) that stated that unlike Codex Chapters, each GC was large enough and had enough resources to operate independently of the rest of the Chapter indefinitely if needed.
that I can belive, a codex chapter has a centralized armory, has a independant scout and veterns company etc. the Great companies are more stand alone.
Yeah I remember reading that back in 3rd edition or something about the space wolves being massive vs a normal chapter size but I could never find that going back and looking and really, even if it was written into the fluff back then, it's probably 100% retconned now.
Still 2k vs the normal 1k, that's still something.
Azuza001 wrote: Yeah I remember reading that back in 3rd edition or something about the space wolves being massive vs a normal chapter size but I could never find that going back and looking and really, even if it was written into the fluff back then, it's probably 100% retconned now.
Still 2k vs the normal 1k, that's still something.
ohh it is, although these figures are an upper estimate and reflect the space wolves prior to the loss of Cadia Battlezone Fenris etc. chances are prior to Primaris Reinforcements they where BADLY depleted. (doubly so as this seems to be a theme) buuut we should PROABLY move this convo elsewhere we're here to discuss tactics.
How do Agressors work with Cunning of the wolf? worth using?
I have used them with strategem before. Worked well but a savvy opponent will deploy to mitigate their effectiveness. They are obviously best if they don't have to move before they shoot getting double shots. I did clear a full squad and a half of genestealers when I last used them in this way. I take them in full squads of 6 when I take them.
I don't own any aggressors, and have never used them, but have gone up against them a few times with my wolves and let me tell you they are dead simple to deal with and cost quite a bit for 3 guys that can die so easily. I don't see the flank stratagem helping that much.
Yup, Agressors work better with Ravenguard so they can get close but still count as stationary for that vital opening salvo. They also work well defensively for UMs in that they can withdraw and still shoot.
For horde clearance, Wolf Guard Bikers with storm bolters work much better. They have 2 wounds and T5 like Aggressors but are much faster and do not lose shots for moving. They get 8 shots at 12" or 4 at 24" which compares fairly well with Aggressors for firepower. Whether they retain this option in the codex remains to be seen.
For Outflanking, I prefer Hellblasters. These guys have awesome firepower but middling range. By popping up from a table edge, there is a good chance of catching something juicy in that 15" double-tap bubble. Have a Wolf Lord with Jump Pack or TDA drop in next to them for rerolls and you can overcharge them with minimal risk of overheats.
Karhedron wrote: Yup, Agressors work better with Ravenguard so they can get close but still count as stationary for that vital opening salvo. They also work well defensively for UMs in that they can withdraw and still shoot.
For horde clearance, Wolf Guard Bikers with storm bolters work much better. They have 2 wounds and T5 like Aggressors but are much faster and do not lose shots for moving. They get 8 shots at 12" or 4 at 24" which compares fairly well with Aggressors for firepower. Whether they retain this option in the codex remains to be seen.
For Outflanking, I prefer Hellblasters. These guys have awesome firepower but middling range. By popping up from a table edge, there is a good chance of catching something juicy in that 15" double-tap bubble. Have a Wolf Lord with Jump Pack or TDA drop in next to them for rerolls and you can overcharge them with minimal risk of overheats.
I agree on all accounts. I use a wolfguard bikers with s.bolters in all my lists. I haven't outflanked the hellblasters yet... but I'll give it a try.
I have a unit of JPWG with combi-plasmas. Now with the FAQ I'm wondering how to deploy them now.
Maybe hiding them behind a Rhino? Should keep them out of most harm and they at least have the chance to get into rapid-fire range T1.
I would just deep strike them t2, use your first turn to get them a clearing pad / drop zone to land in. A rhino with grey hunters can do that job well on the cheap.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: There is something about wolf guard bikers that I just refuse to use them. I just don't like bikers lol.
Why ride a bike when you can ride a thunderwolf?
Depends. What is the purpose of the unit in question? If I want to shoot something then it's bikes because they can shoot All of their weapons. If CC then I take thunderwolves. Stormbolter WG bikers put out 8 shots each at 12 inches and move 14". Bikes are are cheaper too if you compare units kitted the same. Thunderwolves would have 1 more wound each and extra attacks for the wolf.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: There is something about wolf guard bikers that I just refuse to use them. I just don't like bikers lol.
Wolf Guard Bikers are awesome.
Go check out some of those retiree bikie clubs and you'll see great inspirations for grizzled old bastards on motorbikes.
Blood Claw Bikers on the other hand are just goofy.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: There is something about wolf guard bikers that I just refuse to use them. I just don't like bikers lol.
Wolf Guard Bikers are awesome.
Go check out some of those retiree bikie clubs and you'll see great inspirations for grizzled old bastards on motorbikes.
Blood Claw Bikers on the other hand are just goofy.
I don't think SW get fat enough to be inspired by the retiree bike clubs in my area
ArmchairArbiter wrote: There is something about wolf guard bikers that I just refuse to use them. I just don't like bikers lol.
Wolf Guard Bikers are awesome.
Go check out some of those retiree bikie clubs and you'll see great inspirations for grizzled old bastards on motorbikes.
Blood Claw Bikers on the other hand are just goofy.
I don't think SW get fat enough to be inspired by the retiree bike clubs in my area
I recently acquired a corvus in exhange for painting for a friend and I already have lots of primaris from the dark imperium boxes I got around Xmas. What kind of lists have you used? I was thinking of just combining my 1000pt lists. With some tweaks of course. This wolf list has worked great. I have yet to try out the DW list.
Wolves
Wolf Guard [20 PL, 126pts]: Jump Packs
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Storm bolter
Wolf Guard on Bikes [28 PL, 319pts] . Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike Pack Leader: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Storm bolter
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
Wolf Scouts [6 PL, 113pts] . Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Combi-plasma, Storm shield
. Wolf Scout: Boltgun
. Wolf Scout: Boltgun
. Wolf Scout Pack Leader: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Wolf Scout with Heavy Weapon: Plasma gun
. Wolf Scout with Melee Weapon: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Long Fangs [7 PL, 112pts] . Long Fang: Plasma cannon
. Long Fang: Plasma cannon
. Long Fang: Boltgun
. Long Fang: Boltgun
. Long Fang Pack Leader: Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: I recently acquired a corvus in exhange for painting for a friend and I already have lots of primaris from the dark imperium boxes I got around Xmas. What kind of lists have you used? I was thinking of just combining my 1000pt lists. With some tweaks of course. This wolf list has worked great. I have yet to try out the DW list.
Wolves
Wolf Guard [20 PL, 126pts]: Jump Packs
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Chainsword, Storm bolter
Wolf Guard on Bikes [28 PL, 319pts] . Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Storm bolter, Storm shield
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
. Wolf Guard on Bike Pack Leader: Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Storm bolter
. . Bike: Twin boltgun
Wolf Scouts [6 PL, 113pts] . Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Combi-plasma, Storm shield
. Wolf Scout: Boltgun
. Wolf Scout: Boltgun
. Wolf Scout Pack Leader: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
. Wolf Scout with Heavy Weapon: Plasma gun
. Wolf Scout with Melee Weapon: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Long Fangs [7 PL, 112pts] . Long Fang: Plasma cannon
. Long Fang: Plasma cannon
. Long Fang: Boltgun
. Long Fang: Boltgun
. Long Fang Pack Leader: Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
The Deathwatch have a strategem that will let you put infantry in Deepstrike. I can only imagine the damage those Intercessors or Hellblasters could do.
Drop them on an objective in cover and they'll be a menace.
I kinda think they might get the same chapter tactic as Emperor's Children, where they always fight first. This would emulate their counter attack abilities in previous editions letting them count as having charged.
I'm not sure how great to would actually be, or if I want it to happen, but it would make some sense.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: I am hoping for something a little more interesting... but that could easily swing to being useless or overpowered lol.
a ten man grey hunter squad would be receiving 30 attacks on the turn they are charged. would certainly be a solid thing, combine that with a "fight first stratigium" and I imagine it'll make a LOT of armies that might otherwise charge said unit think twice
Another possiability is they'll just get the world eaters +1 attack when charging trait. which TBH I think might be better. counter attack would encourage a more defensive play style then I think space wolves should have
SW chapter tactic has me stumped. I would like it to be something different, and everything I think of is already taken.
Strike first: slaanesh stuff
Advance with no penalty: slaanesh daemons
+1A/S: Khorne daemons if charge/charged
Fallback with no penalty: Ultramarines
+1 wound is blood angels, which is really nice!
+1 to hit seems underwhelming
I would love an option, like how the wulfen aura changes based on what you do.
gwarsh41 wrote: SW chapter tactic has me stumped. I would like it to be something different, and everything I think of is already taken.
Strike first: slaanesh stuff
Advance with no penalty: slaanesh daemons
+1A/S: Khorne daemons if charge/charged
Fallback with no penalty: Ultramarines
+1 wound is blood angels, which is really nice!
+1 to hit seems underwhelming
I would love an option, like how the wulfen aura changes based on what you do.
well in 7th edition space wolves had 2 "chapter tactics" the first was counter attack, the second was "Accute senses" maybe the space wolves instead will get something to reflect their superior senses? not sure what I'd do with that though, maybe let them fire at units coming out of deep strike at a -1 (like the vanilla space marine auspex scan stratigium) could work, but that would be situationally insane or useless depending
I can't think of other sources of rerollable charges than Wulfen. Not everyone runs them and they're not always in range anyway. So I wouldn't mind a blanket rerollable charge for everyone. Give Wulfen something else to make them special.
For counter attack type of deal I think a 3" or even 6" heroic intervention for everyone would be alright.
Ironwolves :
ARMOURED ASSAULT:units can disembark from transports at the end of their movement (even if they advanced)
Stratagem (overwhelming firepower 1CP ) : Select an ironwolves vehicle , it treats all its weapons as assault weapons untill the end of the phase
Deathwolves
AGILE HUNTERS: Units can advance and charge and reroll charges
Stratagem (Outflanking beasts 1CP) Select a unit of thunderwolves, fenrisian wolves or wulfen, it can be removed from the board and be placed wholly within 12" of any board edge and more than 9" from enemy models
The 13th Company
RAMPAGE : Any 6s to hit in close combat score 1 additional hit (those new hits do not trigger additional hits if they are 6s)
Stratagem (Enhanced reflexes 2CP) Choose an infantry unit, it gains +1 to hit in close combat and the fly keyword until the end of the phase
The drakeslayers:
Fierce eyes finest: units can add 3" to their move and advance and they dont suffer the penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons.
Stratagem (Controlling Competition 2CP) Choose a unit , it can target enemy characters even if they are not the closest unit.
The champions of fenris:
Counter attack : Units add + 1 A when they charge, get charged or they heroicly intervene
Stratagem : (sunder armor 3CP) Target an enemy unit, it cannot make invulnerable saves until the end of the phase
Both fluff and play wise, i think heroic intervention should be a SW specialty. Everyone is eager to display their courage, to be named in songs and sagas! Give everyone heroic intervention. If you charge, expect the pack to form in on you!
Plus, no one else has that. Attacking twice is going to be too powerful on a number of units.
On a completely different note, i find TWC combined with Arjac and Wulfen for +2 A to be devastating. Some with wolf claws for a further +1 A.
Northern85Star wrote: Both fluff and play wise, i think heroic intervention should be a SW specialty. Everyone is eager to display their courage, to be named in songs and sagas! Give everyone heroic intervention. If you charge, expect the pack to form in on you!
Plus, no one else has that. Attacking twice is going to be too powerful on a number of units.
On a completely different note, i find TWC combined with Arjac and Wulfen for +2 A to be devastating. Some with wolf claws for a further +1 A.
That... is a great idea! I really like the idea of everyone being able to heroically intervene! That's super fluffy and interesting!
Lonewolfs great company tactics/strats are great as well. Fluffy and interesting again. I would love either or all of these to be done!
I suspect great company tactics is unlikely. looking at similer codices GW hasn't seen fit to give any other chapter differant chocies that way.
On another note, I've got some thunder wolf Cavalry I need to build. should I give them power weapons etc, or should I ggive them chain swords and use them to mow down hoards?
BrianDavion wrote: I suspect great company tactics is unlikely. looking at similer codices GW hasn't seen fit to give any other chapter differant chocies that way.
On another note, I've got some thunder wolf Cavalry I need to build. should I give them power weapons etc, or should I ggive them chain swords and use them to mow down hoards?
Honestly Thunderwolf Cav are in kind of a tough spot at the moment it feels like. They lost rending that made chainswords viable. For hordes I would actually give them power swords/frost swords.
I personally gave all my guys frost axes because... I love axes and they look really bad ass. Tactically though it gives them a versatile role of being able to mulch infantry a little better without costing too much but also being able to deal with some tougher stuff. The only issue the damage they put out isn't super great against more elite units, they don't have any access to high damage weapons except expensive thunder hammers.
BrianDavion wrote: I suspect great company tactics is unlikely. looking at similer codices GW hasn't seen fit to give any other chapter differant chocies that way.
On another note, I've got some thunder wolf Cavalry I need to build. should I give them power weapons etc, or should I ggive them chain swords and use them to mow down hoards?
Honestly Thunderwolf Cav are in kind of a tough spot at the moment it feels like. They lost rending that made chainswords viable. For hordes I would actually give them power swords/frost swords.
I personally gave all my guys frost axes because... I love axes and they look really bad ass. Tactically though it gives them a versatile role of being able to mulch infantry a little better without costing too much but also being able to deal with some tougher stuff. The only issue the damage they put out isn't super great against more elite units, they don't have any access to high damage weapons except expensive thunder hammers.
yeah I built one so far with a chain sword, might mix some forst axes in as well. I'm just thinking they're no longer the serious hammers they used to be, but thunderwolf cav outta be hany for multching light infantry. and these days EVERYONE is taking some guard
Thunderwolves are one of those units that would really need magnetizing since the good loadouts seems to fluctuate pretty wildly between editions/indexes/faqs. It's a pity I haven't done it though.
I’d be thrilled with advance and charge for a chapter tactics, or even a -1 to hit when units advance could be solid.Or +1 to charge range when a character makes a charge, or better yet an aura effect for +1 to charge and/ or assault.
We’re relatively slow for a CC army. Grey wolves lack attacks, Wolfen without SS die far too quickly vs shooting based army. Think points drop is a given.
BrianDavion wrote: I suspect great company tactics is unlikely. looking at similer codices GW hasn't seen fit to give any other chapter differant chocies that way.
On another note, I've got some thunder wolf Cavalry I need to build. should I give them power weapons etc, or should I ggive them chain swords and use them to mow down hoards?
Magnetize them, first of all. I would give the pack leader a thunderhammer/ss, then two with chainsword/ss, rest with dual wolf claws. I dont find them worth it without some kind of attack buff (wulfen and/or Arjac). In this way they are a threat to everything, and you have cheaper loadout models to take casualties from. I run 4-5 in a unit.
So I've only used my wolves maybe 2 times in 8th edition. Once I had terrible dice rolls and lost Njal on the first turn to perils, failed all my charges... it was just a sad game. The second time my list was all over the place and again, some sad dice rolls had a shield dread die to chainswords and my stormfang go down from plasma shots.
Soured me on them a bit, and coming form the resiliency of Nurgle, it's hard to get out of that mindset of "lul, my stuff can't die!"
I've been eyeballing the thread for a bit, and I'm a little bummed that our army seems to be "CODEX: STORMBOLTER" and that doesn't seem all that super fun, but I havent tried it, so I'm not being super fair.
What I'm trying to get at, is I want to play my SW again, but the army isn't as straightforward as what I am currently playing, especially not easily being able to tell what is overcosted and whatnot. If I could get some advice, I would love it.
I guess the bottom line is, unit do you find yourself always bringing because they always preform well?
gwarsh41 wrote: So I've only used my wolves maybe 2 times in 8th edition. Once I had terrible dice rolls and lost Njal on the first turn to perils, failed all my charges... it was just a sad game. The second time my list was all over the place and again, some sad dice rolls had a shield dread die to chainswords and my stormfang go down from plasma shots.
Soured me on them a bit, and coming form the resiliency of Nurgle, it's hard to get out of that mindset of "lul, my stuff can't die!"
I've been eyeballing the thread for a bit, and I'm a little bummed that our army seems to be "CODEX: STORMBOLTER" and that doesn't seem all that super fun, but I havent tried it, so I'm not being super fair.
What I'm trying to get at, is I want to play my SW again, but the army isn't as straightforward as what I am currently playing, especially not easily being able to tell what is overcosted and whatnot. If I could get some advice, I would love it.
I guess the bottom line is, unit do you find yourself always bringing because they always preform well?
I always bring:
Long fangs with missile launchers
Wulfen
Culexus assassin
I never bring:
Stormfang/stormwolf (dies quickly due to poor T)
Dreads except Bjørn or shield dreads
I like to run Thunderwolves and wulfen in close proximity, then deepstrike Arjac for +2 A to TWC and +1 A for Arjac. Against melee armies i force the opponent into a countercharge with two units of long fangs with missile launchers. If there’s no autohitting weaponry, i place the culexus in front, as bait. I have had good results against nurgle/deathguard with this. I run Bjørn with twin las, to take out blight drones turn 1, giving my opponent a headace with the culexus.
gwarsh41 wrote: So I've only used my wolves maybe 2 times in 8th edition. Once I had terrible dice rolls and lost Njal on the first turn to perils, failed all my charges... it was just a sad game. The second time my list was all over the place and again, some sad dice rolls had a shield dread die to chainswords and my stormfang go down from plasma shots.
Soured me on them a bit, and coming form the resiliency of Nurgle, it's hard to get out of that mindset of "lul, my stuff can't die!"
I've been eyeballing the thread for a bit, and I'm a little bummed that our army seems to be "CODEX: STORMBOLTER" and that doesn't seem all that super fun, but I havent tried it, so I'm not being super fair.
What I'm trying to get at, is I want to play my SW again, but the army isn't as straightforward as what I am currently playing, especially not easily being able to tell what is overcosted and whatnot. If I could get some advice, I would love it.
I guess the bottom line is, unit do you find yourself always bringing because they always preform well?
It's pretty much the issue of every Index army. No toys and wonky points. A lot of what make armies unique/special is the stuff they get in the Codex. As far as Index armies went we had it pretty good.... but now we're severely lagging behind. Especially since all our Space Marine brethern have their Codex's. However... this continues to give me hope that we will see Russ return in our release and it's why they waited to release us.
gwarsh41 wrote: So I've only used my wolves maybe 2 times in 8th edition. Once I had terrible dice rolls and lost Njal on the first turn to perils, failed all my charges... it was just a sad game. The second time my list was all over the place and again, some sad dice rolls had a shield dread die to chainswords and my stormfang go down from plasma shots.
Soured me on them a bit, and coming form the resiliency of Nurgle, it's hard to get out of that mindset of "lul, my stuff can't die!"
I've been eyeballing the thread for a bit, and I'm a little bummed that our army seems to be "CODEX: STORMBOLTER" and that doesn't seem all that super fun, but I havent tried it, so I'm not being super fair.
What I'm trying to get at, is I want to play my SW again, but the army isn't as straightforward as what I am currently playing, especially not easily being able to tell what is overcosted and whatnot. If I could get some advice, I would love it.
I guess the bottom line is, unit do you find yourself always bringing because they always preform well?
It's pretty much the issue of every Index army. No toys and wonky points. A lot of what make armies unique/special is the stuff they get in the Codex. As far as Index armies went we had it pretty good.... but now we're severely lagging behind. Especially since all our Space Marine brethern have their Codex's. However... this continues to give me hope that we will see Russ return in our release and it's why they waited to release us.
I've two theories for the length of time for the Space Wovles release (proably in augest or early september as June and July will likely be AOS heavy) the first is yeash Russ.. the second? wave two of Primaris Marines
I like to hope they are out of ideas for primaris... Plus they just came out with DW and it would be weird to shoehorn more primaris in after the fact. Russ seems likely to me since it's been a while since we've had a primarch and I think he would sell like hot cakes.
Northern85Star wrote: Both fluff and play wise, i think heroic intervention should be a SW specialty. Everyone is eager to display their courage, to be named in songs and sagas! Give everyone heroic intervention. If you charge, expect the pack to form in on you!
Plus, no one else has that. Attacking twice is going to be too powerful on a number of units.
On a completely different note, i find TWC combined with Arjac and Wulfen for +2 A to be devastating. Some with wolf claws for a further +1 A.
Yeah, TWC, wulfen and Arjac are quite common in my lists as well, I love those units. With a wolf priest nearby they're even more devastating and that HQ is basically a must for lists with this style, it's also among the cheapest HQs available.
jcd386 wrote: I like to hope they are out of ideas for primaris... Plus they just came out with DW and it would be weird to shoehorn more primaris in after the fact. Russ seems likely to me since it's been a while since we've had a primarch and I think he would sell like hot cakes.
Russ is a good choice to bring back, he's a reasonably intreasting character, space wovles are popular and he'd be a good foil for Gulliman
jcd386 wrote: I like to hope they are out of ideas for primaris... Plus they just came out with DW and it would be weird to shoehorn more primaris in after the fact. Russ seems likely to me since it's been a while since we've had a primarch and I think he would sell like hot cakes.
Russ is a good choice to bring back, he's a reasonably intreasting character, space wovles are popular and he'd be a good foil for Gulliman
Depends.
The only tension between them is the Codex Astartes, other than that Guilliman admires Russ and named him one of his "Dauntless few". Russ admires Guilliman as a statesman even if he didn't agree to surrender to his army organisation.
On a completely different note, i find TWC combined with Arjac and Wulfen for +2 A to be devastating. Some with wolf claws for a further +1 A.
This is gold! I can't Believe I didn't think of that. This means a pack leader with claws in range of the wulfen and arjac would have six attacks at strength 5 -2ap 1 damage re rolling all wounds. There is lots of potential here for max assault carnage. I'm going to make a list!
On a completely different note, i find TWC combined with Arjac and Wulfen for +2 A to be devastating. Some with wolf claws for a further +1 A.
This is gold! I can't Believe I didn't think of that. This means a pack leader with claws in range of the wulfen and arjac would have six attacks at strength 5 -2ap 1 damage re rolling all wounds. There is lots of potential here for max assault carnage. I'm going to make a list!
Actually 9 attacks at S5 Ap-1 damage 1, 6 of them re-rolling failed to wound rolls. Claws have AP-1, but there are also the dogs attacks to factor in.
On a completely different note, i find TWC combined with Arjac and Wulfen for +2 A to be devastating. Some with wolf claws for a further +1 A.
This is gold! I can't Believe I didn't think of that. This means a pack leader with claws in range of the wulfen and arjac would have six attacks at strength 5 -2ap 1 damage re rolling all wounds. There is lots of potential here for max assault carnage. I'm going to make a list!
Actually 9 attacks at S5 Ap-1 damage 1, 6 of them re-rolling failed to wound rolls. Claws have AP-1, but there are also the dogs attacks to factor in.
Right that is a lot of extra attacks . I was thinking of wolf guard in general. I use wolfguard on Bikes and by jumppack as well.
You'll be needing a Wolf Priest or two to get it all there. The problem with TWC and Wulfen at the moment is that they're priority targets, not too many people see them and think anything else is scarier.
Maybe it's just where I play but I've found TWC is a tad less than useful in 8th, 10' movement, maxing out at S8 and nothing really making many S8 attacks.
This combo you guys are playing with will be a high priority blob but damn it'll hit hard when it arrives.
Bjørn with twin las
Arjac
5 grey hunters
5 wulfen w/ 3x TH/SS, 1xGFA
5 TWC, 3xdual wolf claws, 2x chainsword/SS 5 fenrisian wolves
5 long fangs w/ missile launchers
5 long fangs w/ missile launchers
Culexus assassin
Eversor assassin
1500 pts. Only 2 cp.
Plan is to get two more units of grey hunters, one unit with flamer and one unit with power sword and arm the TWC pack leader with TH/SS, exhanged for a thunderwolf dual claws, fenrisian wolves and eversor assassin (1499 pts, 8 cp).
So I built this 1k list off the Arjac plus wulfen idea. It's for a tourney but I would take it for fun not to win! Just to see people's face when I charge in with lots of extra attacks. The list has lots of s4 dakka but no real antitank. As opposed to my last list that had lots of plasma scouts and long fangs to support the wulfen outflank. My wulfen have traditionally eaten vehicles no problem. Plan is to start the bikes and thunderwolves on the board in cover best as I can. Then deepstrike arjac near the outflanking wulfen an deepstriking jumppack wolfguard.
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: So I built this 1k list off the Arjac plus wulfen idea. It's for a tourney but I would take it for fun not to win! Just to see people's face when I charge in with lots of extra attacks. The list has lots of s4 dakka but no real antitank. As opposed to my last list that had lots of plasma scouts and long fangs to support the wulfen outflank. My wulfen have traditionally eaten vehicles no problem. Plan is to start the bikes and thunderwolves on the board in cover best as I can. Then deepstrike arjac near the outflanking wulfen an deepstriking jumppack wolfguard.
I'll be testing it Monday. There are SS sprinkled about all over. I just want to see the wulfen and thunderwolves make combat. We will see Monday how I do. My brother plays chaos. I was going to test out my new deathwatch list but the wolves are my fav.
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: I'll be testing it Monday. There are SS sprinkled about all over. I just want to see the wulfen and thunderwolves make combat. We will see Monday how I do. My brother plays chaos. I was going to test out my new deathwatch list but the wolves are my fav.
You play Deathwatch and Space Wolves? Me too, can't wait to try allying them.
So i'm working on my Space Wolves army list. I have a few questions
HQ
Wolf Lord x2
T. Hammer & SS Is this the current auto choice for weapons, or are people doing something else?
I want to give them extra mobility. Jump Packs are a cheap option, or is a Wolf Mount just too good to pass up?
FAST
5 Skyclaws x3
Plasma Pistols (I can take 3 even without a Wolf Guard), or Plasma Guns? If I go Plasma Guns then I really need to take a Wolf Guard with Combi-Plasma.
The choice of Pistols or Guns really changes how I will use the unit. But the 'Claws 4+ BS is an argument in favor of the pistols.
If I go Pistols, should I try to cram a Power Weapon of some kind in there? If so, what one?
TROOPS
10 Grey Hunters x4
CCWs, Plasma Gun x2, Wolf Guard with Combi-Plasma
These will be doing their best to stay in Rapid Fire range. Should I give the unit a Power Weapon? If so then what one, and who should carry it?
Should I REALLY shoe horn in extra Plasma Pistols? I know the rules allow it, but it just seems so WAAC...
ELITES
10 Wolf Scouts
BP&CCW, P. Pistol & Power Weapon
What Power Weapon?
Lone Wolf x3
Bonesword & Storm Shield
Or am I better off with a T. Hammer?
phydaux wrote: So i'm working on my Space Wolves army list. I have a few questions
HQ
Wolf Lord x2
T. Hammer & SS Is this the current auto choice for weapons, or are people doing something else?
I want to give them extra mobility. Jump Packs are a cheap option, or is a Wolf Mount just too good to pass up?
FAST
5 Skyclaws x3
Plasma Pistols (I can take 3 even without a Wolf Guard), or Plasma Guns? If I go Plasma Guns then I really need to take a Wolf Guard with Combi-Plasma.
The choice of Pistols or Guns really changes how I will use the unit. But the 'Claws 4+ BS is an argument in favor of the pistols.
If I go Pistols, should I try to cram a Power Weapon of some kind in there? If so, what one?
TROOPS
10 Grey Hunters x4
CCWs, Plasma Gun x2, Wolf Guard with Combi-Plasma
These will be doing their best to stay in Rapid Fire range. Should I give the unit a Power Weapon? If so then what one, and who should carry it?
Should I REALLY shoe horn in extra Plasma Pistols? I know the rules allow it, but it just seems so WAAC...
ELITES
10 Wolf Scouts
BP&CCW, P. Pistol & Power Weapon
What Power Weapon?
Lone Wolf x3
Bonesword & Storm Shield
Or am I better off with a T. Hammer?
Thanks for the input.
If you’re going with a lord, use his 2+ WS by giving him a ranged weapon (re-rolling 1s). The SS is not that good since he has an in-build 4+ invul save. The battle leader is just as good in melee offensively, but cheaper, if you want to go SS. Thunderwolf is a good choice.
Skyclaws is in a tight spot, they’re frankly not that good on paper - especially with the new beta rules. I guess i would go with flamers due to poor WS, and plasma for the wolf guard. Wg and pack leader should have melee weapons of some kind, but it all depends on how you want to use them. If you synergize them with Lukas, then go all-out plasma. Lukas makes blood claws/skyclaws viable on paper, since you can overcharge without consequence and hit on a roll of 3+ (2+ for the wolf guard!).
Grey hunters. Personally i would divide them into two units of 5, to hold objectives and kill MSU/chaff. Gear is dependant on your meta.
Scouts. I would always include a WG here. If your meta includes big models, tanks etc i would go all melta. If not, all plasma. Basically use them like “on the hunt” hellblasters, but cheaper, less effecient and saving you a CP.
Lone Wolfs: both, if you’re going with three. But they’re too expensive for what they do.
phydaux wrote: You seem to be saying that I should deemphasize assault and change my list across the board to be more shooty.
If I'm gonna do that then aren't I better off playing vanilla Marines?
No, no - just that IMO skyclaws, lone wolves and such arent the most effecient melee units in our arsenal. Skyclaws can be good combined with Lukas, but your regular skyclaw is only dealing S4 0ap dmg1 attacks, while being fragile. Lone wolves are very pricey, but tankey in my experience - not very damaging with only 3 A. They are obviously good against characters and monsters, and their 4+++ on last wound combined with a TH synergizes well with a wolf priest.
Scouts are poor melee units due to being fragile, arriving on T2, then having to make a 9” charge. They need to be shooty. If i recall correctly, there’s only around 30% chance to make a 9” charge.
In general though, for any assault oriented list, wulfen are absolutely essential. Not only because they are good on their own, but because of their aura. This could be combined with sky claws or blood claws (with fully kitted WG) and Lukas to be devastating. For WG/TWC, you’ve got Arjac. It is all about playing around synergies IMO, because we’re underpowered at the moment being one of the few armies without a codex.
phydaux wrote: You seem to be saying that I should deemphasize assault and change my list across the board to be more shooty.
If I'm gonna do that then aren't I better off playing vanilla Marines?
No, no - just that IMO skyclaws, lone wolves and such arent the most effecient melee units in our arsenal. Skyclaws can be good combined with Lukas, but your regular skyclaw is only dealing S4 0ap dmg1 attacks, while being fragile. Lone wolves are very pricey, but tankey in my experience - not very damaging with only 3 A. They are obviously good against characters and monsters, and their 4+++ on last wound combined with a TH synergizes well with a wolf priest.
Scouts are poor melee units due to being fragile, arriving on T2, then having to make a 9” charge. They need to be shooty. If i recall correctly, there’s only around 30% chance to make a 9” charge.
In general though, for any assault oriented list, wulfen are absolutely essential. Not only because they are good on their own, but because of their aura. This could be combined with sky claws or blood claws (with fully kitted WG) and Lukas to be devastating. For WG/TWC, you’ve got Arjac. It is all about playing around synergies IMO, because we’re underpowered at the moment being one of the few armies without a codex.
how are wulfen best armed BTW? pure thunderhammer/SS a mix of weapons?
"It is all about playing around synergies IMO, because we’re underpowered at the moment being one of the few armies without a codex."
Yeah, I'm waiting rather IM-patiently for the new codex to roll around. Could be worst. I could play Sisters, right? sigh...
It just seem that to make room for a big blob of Wolfen and a named character then I'd have to pull a lot of other stuff out of the list. I really want the core of the army to be Grey Hunters backed up by.... Something.
If I drop the Storm Shields from my Lords & Lones and replace them with Plasma Pistols. Hmm... T. Hammers still for the Lords. How about the Lones, what melee weapon for them?
I was counting on the Skyclaws eating the Turn One shooting while my Hunters advanced to Rapid Fire range. Now I'm unsure how to get them there short of Rhinos For Everyone.
What if I took a couple of Dreads to act as Bullet Magnets? Dreads are Wolfy....
right now with my space wolves I'm just building "rule of cool" and focusing on a nice looking army that I can pull units out to make a list. so far I have 3 squads of grey hunters with 10 people (1 combiplas and 2 plasma rifles) a 5 man devestator squad with 4 plasma cannons and a plasma rifle, some "bare bones" thunder wolf cavlary I have some unassmbled wulfen. a rhino a land raider crusader and a predator. Might buy another 2 rhinos so I can do the full mechanzied thing.
So I just finished playing a game against my brothers daemons. I used my 1000pt list from a few posts up with arjac and wulfen buffing wolf guard bikers/ jumppacks and thunder wolves. My brother brought a bloodthirster, Lord of change with impossible robe, 30 bloodletters, khorne herald, and squad of pink horrors. We played a maelstrom mission and At the end of turn 5 he tabled me but I had 7 VP to his 1. All he had left was 3 remaining wounds on his LOC and the pink horrors. Arjac and the wulfen buffed each other really well as well as the bikers shooting the blood letters to pieces. All the storm shields worked amazingly. My weakness was mortal wounds from smite. He super smited me every turn. He literally rolled an 11 or higher every time. Rolled 6 for super smite 3 of those times deleting two thunderwolves and several bikers before they could do anything in close combat. I feel my fix would have been to take a long fangs squad instead of the thunderwolves and shoot the big baddies making them waste their special rerolls for save and 2+ invul save in the shooting phase instead of the fight phase.
phydaux wrote: You seem to be saying that I should deemphasize assault and change my list across the board to be more shooty.
If I'm gonna do that then aren't I better off playing vanilla Marines?
No, no - just that IMO skyclaws, lone wolves and such arent the most effecient melee units in our arsenal. Skyclaws can be good combined with Lukas, but your regular skyclaw is only dealing S4 0ap dmg1 attacks, while being fragile. Lone wolves are very pricey, but tankey in my experience - not very damaging with only 3 A. They are obviously good against characters and monsters, and their 4+++ on last wound combined with a TH synergizes well with a wolf priest.
Scouts are poor melee units due to being fragile, arriving on T2, then having to make a 9” charge. They need to be shooty. If i recall correctly, there’s only around 30% chance to make a 9” charge.
In general though, for any assault oriented list, wulfen are absolutely essential. Not only because they are good on their own, but because of their aura. This could be combined with sky claws or blood claws (with fully kitted WG) and Lukas to be devastating. For WG/TWC, you’ve got Arjac. It is all about playing around synergies IMO, because we’re underpowered at the moment being one of the few armies without a codex.
how are wulfen best armed BTW? pure thunderhammer/SS a mix of weapons?
At least 2TH/SS plus the leader who has fixed loadout. Then you may choose as you want, all the three melee weapons are good. I prefer using wulfen as anti tank so leader, 2 TH/SS and 2 axes or even leader plus 4 TH/SS.
TheunlikelyGamer wrote: So I just finished playing a game against my brothers daemons. I used my 1000pt list from a few posts up with arjac and wulfen buffing wolf guard bikers/ jumppacks and thunder wolves. My brother brought a bloodthirster, Lord of change with impossible robe, 30 bloodletters, khorne herald, and squad of pink horrors. We played a maelstrom mission and At the end of turn 5 he tabled me but I had 7 VP to his 1. All he had left was 3 remaining wounds on his LOC and the pink horrors. Arjac and the wulfen buffed each other really well as well as the bikers shooting the blood letters to pieces. All the storm shields worked amazingly. My weakness was mortal wounds from smite. He super smited me every turn. He literally rolled an 11 or higher every time. Rolled 6 for super smite 3 of those times deleting two thunderwolves and several bikers before they could do anything in close combat. I feel my fix would have been to take a long fangs squad instead of the thunderwolves and shoot the big baddies making them waste their special rerolls for save and 2+ invul save in the shooting phase instead of the fight phase.
Wow, incredible luck on those smite rolls! I also play daemons often, which is why i always bring a culexus (got demolished by a tzeench list in my very first 8ed game, and ordered a culexus straight away )
phydaux wrote: "It is all about playing around synergies IMO, because we’re underpowered at the moment being one of the few armies without a codex."
Yeah, I'm waiting rather IM-patiently for the new codex to roll around. Could be worst. I could play Sisters, right? sigh...
It just seem that to make room for a big blob of Wolfen and a named character then I'd have to pull a lot of other stuff out of the list. I really want the core of the army to be Grey Hunters backed up by.... Something.
If I drop the Storm Shields from my Lords & Lones and replace them with Plasma Pistols. Hmm... T. Hammers still for the Lords. How about the Lones, what melee weapon for them?
I was counting on the Skyclaws eating the Turn One shooting while my Hunters advanced to Rapid Fire range. Now I'm unsure how to get them there short of Rhinos For Everyone.
What if I took a couple of Dreads to act as Bullet Magnets? Dreads are Wolfy....
I really dont see the benefits of going more troops than is neccesary for a battalion, but i guess it depends on meta too. Maybe a horde type list could work.
Your lone wolves should have a SS, and i would go TH on them, since they should target characters and monsters. I would support them with a wolf priest, to heal them once they get back up. Potentially very frustrating for your opponent (and fun for you!), but an expensive strategy that wulfen does cheaper.
I dont think your grey hunters would be target priorities, so i think you could foot-slog them.
Shield dreads are great, its on my painting schedule
"I really dont see the benefits of going more troops than is neccesary for a battalion"
It's the old adage of Boys Before Toys.
Plus, Grey Hunters are best Troops choice out there. No other MEQ unit can rock two Plasma Guns, a Combi Plasma, two Power Weapons, a couple of Plasma Pistols, a bunch of Bolters, and everyone has a Chainsword and some kind of pistol.
That's an awesome mix of short range firepower and assault power. Grey Hunters do yeoman's work in a Space Wolf's army.
I've dropped the Lone Wolves in favor of two Wolf Priests with Jump Packs, and the Wolf Lord is going to foot slog along with the Hunters with T. Hammer & P. Pistol. The Sky Claws get Plasma Pistols, and I've added some Long Fangs.
So the wulfen aura and the charge V bonus attack. How does that work? I've been figuring if you charged while in range of the aura, you don't get the bonus attack. Or is it only if you had to re-roll the charge?
gwarsh41 wrote: So the wulfen aura and the charge V bonus attack. How does that work? I've been figuring if you charged while in range of the aura, you don't get the bonus attack. Or is it only if you had to re-roll the charge?
If you were in range of the aura in the charge phase while not in combat, then you dont get the aura in the charge phase.
gwarsh41 wrote: So the wulfen aura and the charge V bonus attack. How does that work? I've been figuring if you charged while in range of the aura, you don't get the bonus attack. Or is it only if you had to re-roll the charge?
If you were in range of the aura in the charge phase while not in combat, then you dont get the aura in the charge phase.
There’s a reading of it whereby the simple fact of being within range in the charge phase makes it not happen in the fight phase, regardless of all other factors. It’s a badly written rule and I’d hope the Codex makes it work a lot smoother.
gwarsh41 wrote: So the wulfen aura and the charge V bonus attack. How does that work? I've been figuring if you charged while in range of the aura, you don't get the bonus attack. Or is it only if you had to re-roll the charge?
If you were in range of the aura in the charge phase while not in combat, then you dont get the aura in the charge phase.
There’s a reading of it whereby the simple fact of being within range in the charge phase makes it not happen in the fight phase, regardless of all other factors. It’s a badly written rule and I’d hope the Codex makes it work a lot smoother.
That is how it reads in the index, but the index errata changed it to only affect units that made a charge. So all eligible units that didnt make a charge within 6” of wulfen in the charge phase gets the extra attack in the combat phase if within 6”. Since we have a movement phase before it, it isnt too hard to pull of - just move them forward so that they end up 6” apart, unless you’d rather want to reroll charge distance (i usually do this if the charge distance is above 7)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Two games today:
Lost massively to khorne/nurgle due to lucky/unlucky rolls. By the end of his T2, i had lost half my army.. 10 wounds from smite. Unlucky on my part.
Won against ultramarines due to VPs. He fielded Guilliman, 3 centurions and a relic leviathan as the central pieces. Had almost nothing left in the end, but i managed to kill Big G. Wulfen did really well. Long fangs died before doing anything. Bjørn killed the centurions before dying.
All in all, i think Bjørn is very fragile for a guy who is the oldest soldier in the imperium.. need a 5+ invul on him, atleast. At no point did i get the combo off, as the TWC died in T 1 or 2 (i got last turn both games).
phydaux wrote: "At no point did i get the combo off, as the TWC died in T 1 or 2 (i got last turn both games)."
Play on tables with more terrain. It's the only way to deal with the gunline.
We had 16 ruins/buildings on the board, but it is very hard hiding 5 TWC with the huge bases they’re on :( The nurgle/khorne player had barely any shooting, but got lucky with smite rolls (super smite). I also failed 5x9” charge rolls in a single turn against ultramarines, including one on 3d6 and CP re-roll
Aggressors can do both. They can shoot twice if standing still and are good against heavy infantry with their fists. But they only have 18" range.
