They have been. I thought they were referring specifically to pics from the Warfaire Weekend display case.
Personally I like them, but I'm fond of the old style too. These work better for me in the context of the 50 mm backline support role compared to the Tankers though, just because I find the Tanker solos struggle to look like there's a pilot rather than just being a Warjack.
There's a Black Friday sale running on PP's webstore for all the old plastic stuff they need to clear out of their warehouse. Discount applied in cart but just seems to be 50% off across the board.
Doh, only just found out about that in the newsletter recap PP just sent out. Is there anything left? There are one or two mini-crate minis that I missed out on that I'd love to get!
The only one I really wanted was the Totem Huntress, but you have to sign up to be a member of minicrate to get the invite and all to start with I think.
Yeah, I have been a subscriber on and off, but recently off. If there is anything left I will see if I have to see if there are any UK subscribers here on Dakka who can help
There's about half of the models left but the sale started late due for some reason so when I got in about 30min after it actually started several things were sold out that I didn't have. Managed to get a few things but sadly the Ord Piper I wanted was gone.
LunarSol wrote: There's a Black Friday sale running on PP's webstore for all the old plastic stuff they need to clear out of their warehouse. Discount applied in cart but just seems to be 50% off across the board.
I've ordered a Hurricane/Stormwall . The offer was too good, even with vat and shipping, and I wanted the cygnar colossal for a long time.
I like the front piston just intersecting the flat side of the armor plate that's half again its thickness.
The warped armor above the tread adds something as well, as does the front screw half the size of the driver's head.
Bad idea poorly executed.
...does it still have mould flash on the barrel and other parts of the guns and far side of the tank, or are all those parallel lines from something else?
stonehorse wrote: Yet more things in Warmachine that detract from Warjacks
It is a cool idea, just more nails in the coffin for Warjacks.
Just as an aside, now that we've seen the rules for the Bison, I really struggle to see where I'd take it over a Warjack.
For the POW 19 ranged attack with POW 14 AOE2 blast damage under combo strike. Its exceedingly rare to come across a ranged weapon with a POW that high, most weapons top at POW15/16, and getting that on a weapon that causes blast damage (at effective POW 14 no less) is pretty much unheard of. For 10pts its a rarity and a bit of a steal. Throw Savaryns Kill Order Battle Plan into the mix and you can potentially wipe a trio of high ARM 5-8 wound heavy infantry under shield guard in a single attack, etc.
I like the concept, kinda reminds me of something from G.I.Joe, but the execution is naff. It looks like the Armourcast titans, where they took the 6mm Epic designs and did a straight scale up. This thing would be fine as a tiny scale model, but at a 28mm wargaming size, the details are oversized and proportions are a mess.
stonehorse wrote: Yet more things in Warmachine that detract from Warjacks
It is a cool idea, just more nails in the coffin for Warjacks.
Just as an aside, now that we've seen the rules for the Bison, I really struggle to see where I'd take it over a Warjack.
For the POW 19 ranged attack with POW 14 AOE2 blast damage under combo strike. Its exceedingly rare to come across a ranged weapon with a POW that high, most weapons top at POW15/16, and getting that on a weapon that causes blast damage (at effective POW 14 no less) is pretty much unheard of. For 10pts its a rarity and a bit of a steal. Throw Savaryns Kill Order Battle Plan into the mix and you can potentially wipe a trio of high ARM 5-8 wound heavy infantry under shield guard in a single attack, etc.
And all that without needing to be fed focus, thus leaving the Warcaster more focus to allocate to other things, like spells, more attacks, etc.
Warjacks are cool and all, but each one taken has an impact on the Warcasters performance... which I know is the aim of the game. So things like the Bison, just solve that conundrum without the player needing to think too much about it.
And all that without needing to be fed focus, thus leaving the Warcaster more focus to allocate to other things, like spells, more attacks, etc.
Warjacks are cool and all, but each one taken has an impact on the Warcasters performance... which I know is the aim of the game. So things like the Bison, just solve that conundrum without the player needing to think too much about it.
This really isn't an issue in mk4. Most factions have pretty cheap access to units or solos that provide more focus. The Winter Korps Arkanists are nearly enough with Power Up to fully load two jacks. Borisyuk and Katarina are both extremely focus heavy casters that can barely run their jacks in battlebox games, but as soon as the rules for Arkanists were available I was easily able to run lists with 3-4+ jacks without issue.
For the POW 19 ranged attack with POW 14 AOE2 blast damage under combo strike. Its exceedingly rare to come across a ranged weapon with a POW that high, most weapons top at POW15/16, and getting that on a weapon that causes blast damage (at effective POW 14 no less) is pretty much unheard of. For 10pts its a rarity and a bit of a steal. Throw Savaryns Kill Order Battle Plan into the mix and you can potentially wipe a trio of high ARM 5-8 wound heavy infantry under shield guard in a single attack, etc.
Admittedly there's a huge difference between what's good with Savaryn and what's good with the other two. Kill Order is basically his entire gameplan and it not working wtih jacks makes a lot of room for everything else. It's a really good gun, but one really good gun for that cost has never been enough in the game particularly without a boost mechanic.
I mean, its a really good gun with a decent melee attack attached to it, that doesn't need to use a focus point to charge, but can still benefit from a variety of other buffs in the army. At 10pts its a steal.
chaos0xomega wrote: I mean, its a really good gun with a decent melee attack attached to it, that doesn't need to use a focus point to charge, but can still benefit from a variety of other buffs in the army. At 10pts its a steal.
I'm not sure I agree, but its the only thing in the army I haven't tested out yet so my opinion is just theory. I'll have to bring an Armiger to the shop next time to try it out, though I plan to buy one regardless for display.
The STL market is entirely different and is honestly rather strange because you get production products are bargain bin costs. They'd have to shift their business focus entirely to profit off stl sales. Plus they'd still have to manufacture and ship out 3D printed models because the number of 3D printer owners is tiny compared to the number of non-3D printer owners in the market.
Overread wrote: rather strange because you get production products are bargain bin costs.
Don't you feel like its all about huge quantities of STLs, little care for IPs, sweat shop for 3D art, no production cost, random quality control etc, etc. Almost like totally unregulated.
I dont know but maybe some of those explain the bargain bin costs?
Either way its the opposite of what PP tries to sell.
Overread wrote: rather strange because you get production products are bargain bin costs.
Don't you feel like its all about huge quantities of STLs, little care for IPs, sweat shop for 3D art, no production cost, random quality control etc, etc. Almost like totally unregulated.
I dont know but maybe some of those explain the bargain bin costs?
.
Oh that's very much what it is. It had a very fast race to the bottom for the value of the STL as creators pushed to sculpt more and more each month to up the value to get more backers on monthly Patreon systems. Whilst it allowed 3D printing to grow as a market as a phenomenal rate, it also kind of relied on people being trapped at home during lockdowns and having more free time to dedicate to something new. Now that has worn off and other elements there has been somewhat of a slowdown and I've seen prices starting to creep up here and there and numbers of models going down - at least for all barring the big names that arleady have huge supporter bases.
There's other costs too - fast production means a lower quality of product. More voids; more glitches in sculpting; sometimes just the same poses over and over because they are simpler and easier to achieve. Some even repeat the poses month to month so you can spot the pattern of fixed poses.
It's not terrible by any stretch, but the patreon model has its good and bad sides.
Personally I think what we'll see is a gradual increase in value of the STL over time. Basically there's so much cheap stuff out there that many customers can quickly get a huge library of models *most they'll never print* so customers quickly burn out on volume and, in theory, will start getting more picky. Esp when you stepback and realise that most patreon prices are worth it if you just want 1 model from the set and if you only ever actually print one or two then the fact that there's 50 or 100 models doesn't make much difference.
But its all ups and downs and its very different to marketing an actual game and product line. In the end to PP, 3D printing is just another production method. Plus when you add on all the costs of doing real business and making a real living income the prices for a 3D print model really are about the same as those for injection moulded models and cast modes.
Sunno wrote: Apparently its all out of Beta now? Didn't really see any sort of announcement
I was hoping the final version of the rulebook pdf will be available for download, once the beta is officially finished. I was looking forward to printing it out, but can't find it anywhere :(
chaos0xomega wrote: I mean, its a really good gun with a decent melee attack attached to it, that doesn't need to use a focus point to charge, but can still benefit from a variety of other buffs in the army. At 10pts its a steal.
I'm not sure I agree, but its the only thing in the army I haven't tested out yet so my opinion is just theory. I'll have to bring an Armiger to the shop next time to try it out, though I plan to buy one regardless for display.
Following through, gave it a try and its pretty solid. The main guns really are that good and while I don't think it has the output to take two, the threat protection on it gives it a ton of board control and more of a sniper piece. Most of its strength came from taking out backline support and being a solo that can hold a flag. I don't think I'd ever take 2 and not in every list, but its worth taking.
Personally I think what we'll see is a gradual increase in value of the STL over time. Basically there's so much cheap stuff out there that many customers can quickly get a huge library of models *most they'll never print* so customers quickly burn out on volume and, in theory, will start getting more picky. Esp when you stepback and realise that most patreon prices are worth it if you just want 1 model from the set and if you only ever actually print one or two then the fact that there's 50 or 100 models doesn't make much difference.
This is where I am at, as a buyer, but as a sculptor/seller I'm still seeing the "race to the bottom" in effect and not seeing the burnout hitting other buyers en masse yet. Give it some more time, I suppose.
chaos0xomega wrote: I mean, its a really good gun with a decent melee attack attached to it, that doesn't need to use a focus point to charge, but can still benefit from a variety of other buffs in the army. At 10pts its a steal.
I'm not sure I agree, but its the only thing in the army I haven't tested out yet so my opinion is just theory. I'll have to bring an Armiger to the shop next time to try it out, though I plan to buy one regardless for display.
Following through, gave it a try and its pretty solid. The main guns really are that good and while I don't think it has the output to take two, the threat protection on it gives it a ton of board control and more of a sniper piece. Most of its strength came from taking out backline support and being a solo that can hold a flag. I don't think I'd ever take 2 and not in every list, but its worth taking.
Yep! I would agree with that assessment based on my own playtesting.
June 13, 2023
As we prepare for our upcoming facility move, we will end manufacturing of Legacy WARMACHINE and HORDES models as well as Riot Quest models made in cast metal and resin at the end of this week. After Friday, we will only be fulfilling online store orders with items that remain in stock and will be editing the online store as efficiently as we can to reflect what is available and what is not.
If there is a Legacy item you have been considering purchasing, we encourage you do so by Wednesday, June 14. While we still can’t guarantee it will be in stock, we will do our best to fulfill the order as long as we still have the manufacturing capability for these models.
During this transition, some Monsterpocalypse and Warcaster models may also be out of print for some period of time. We will do our best to restore their availability as soon as possible, but please expect that to take some time as we convert them to our new manufacturing process.
Thank you for your patience and support as we make these changes and set up for the future of Privateer Press model production.
To assist in decision making, here is a list of the models going into the remaining Prime Legacy armies:
Dark Operations
Bloat Thrall
Cephalyx Agitator
Cephalyx Dominator & Hammerfall High Shield Gun Corps
Cephalyx Dominator & Horgenhold Artillery Corps
Cephalyx Dominator & Horgenhold Forge Guard
Cephalyx Dominator & Ogrun Assault Corps
Cephalyx Dominator & Steelhead Cannon Crew
Cephalyx Dominator & Steelhead Halberdiers
Cephalyx Dominator & Steelhead Mortar Crew
Cephalyx Dominator & Steelhead Riflemen
Cephalyx Dominator & Steelhead Volley Gun Crew
Cephalyx Dominator & Tactical Arcanist Corps
Cephalyx Mind Bender & Drudges
Cephalyx Mind Slaver & Drudges
Cephalyx Overlords
Cognifex Cyphon
Doctor Stygius
Exulon Thexus
Machine Wraith
Mortenebra, Numen of Necrogenesis
Pistol Wraith
Subduer
Warden
Wrecker
Exalted
Abidan the Keeper
Agonizer
Aptimus Marketh
Ancestral Guardian
Aradus Scarab
Aradus Sentinel
Aradus Soldier
Archidon
Basilisk Drake
Basilisk Krea
Bronzeback Titan
Cyclops Shaman
Desert Hydra
Despoiler
Extoller Advocate
Extoller Novitiate
Extoller Soulward
Hakaar the Destroyer
Immortal Vessel
Immortals
Lord Arbiter Hexeris
Mammoth
Nihilators
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor
Paingiver Beast Handlers
Paingiver Bloodrunners
Razor Worm
Rhinodon
Supreme Guardian
The Terrorizer
Titan Gladiator
Titan Sentry
Void Seer Mordikaar
Void Spirit
Zaal, the Ancestral Advocate
Shadows of the Retribution
Aeternae
Arcanist Mechanik
Arcantrik Force Generator
Aspis
Banshee
Chimera
Daemon
Eiryss, Mage Hunter Commander
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios
Elara, Tyro of the Third Chamber
Garryth, Eye of Vengeance
Harpy
Helios
House Ellowuyr Swordsmen
House Ellowuyr Swordsmen Officer & Standard
House Ellowuyr Warden Executioner
House Ellowuyr Wardens
Hyperion
Mage Hunter Assassin
Mage Hunter Infiltrators
Mage Hunter Strike Force
Mage Hunter Strike Force Commander
Moros
Narn, Mage Hunter of Ios
Nayl
Ravyn, the Eternal Light
Siren
Soulless Escort
Soulless Voidtracer
Spears of Scyrah
Sphinx
Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker
Thyron, Sword of Truth
United Kriels
Braylen Wanderheart, Trollkin Outlaw
Dang it!
Just spent an hour going through their store to see if there were any minis I wanted before they disappear forever, only to discover they don't do Paypal.
Guess that's what I get for not picking up this stuff when it was released.
Ordered a Supreme Guardian when I saw the Facebook announcement yesterday, lucking the rest of the stuff I need to finish an Exalted list is readily available on eBay.
I have been looking at my old collections and I still have my lovely old school metals Troolbloods before the plasresins nonsense and my god they are such sweet minis! A shame to see legacy go away they are such nice minis! We are so far away from those golden metal days.
I'm making 75 point lists out of my favorite legacy armies for pick up and play. Need to pick up a few things to make that happen but not going crazy here.
Still amazed that the Unlimited decks don't contain any of the Warcasters/Warlocks from the MKIII battle boxes. Would have thought that due to the popularity of those, they would have made them in the Unlimited decks.
Oh well, guess I'll just wait another year or so before I can try MKIV.
stonehorse wrote: Still amazed that the Unlimited decks don't contain any of the Warcasters/Warlocks from the MKIII battle boxes. Would have thought that due to the popularity of those, they would have made them in the Unlimited decks.
Oh well, guess I'll just wait another year or so before I can try MKIV.
They haven't done any of the Unlimited casters outside of a few that were done as part of making all the Battle Engines available.
Grot 6 wrote: What's the market look like for older jacks and figures?
I have loads of this stuff that can go to a good home.
Should I put it up in the sales and trades section?
There isn't much of one at this point, the best place to sell Warmachine and Hordes minis is the Facebook buy and sell group... but people are pretty much throwing their minis away on there, with $1,000+ MSRP commission painted armies selling for $100-200.
The Mystery Boxes flooded the market with cheap product, and the mass exodus of a large portion of the player base has removed pretty much all value for PP minis. Both my old Warmachine opponent and I are just trying to repurpose parts of our collections for other games like Dragon/Xenos Rampant and even Blood Bowl at this point, as neither of us have really been able to shift minis for the game outside of them being darn near free.
stonehorse wrote: Still amazed that the Unlimited decks don't contain any of the Warcasters/Warlocks from the MKIII battle boxes. Would have thought that due to the popularity of those, they would have made them in the Unlimited decks.
Oh well, guess I'll just wait another year or so before I can try MKIV.
They haven't done any of the Unlimited casters outside of a few that were done as part of making all the Battle Engines available.
I understand that it is a matter of time till they are all available. just seeing as those were used as an entry point into the game for a lot of people, it would have made sense to fast track their MKIV rules. As it is currently, I have a large collection that is for the most part unplayable, can't do a Skorne, Trollblood, Circle, Khador, or Cygnar Battlegroup.
Yeah, I do understand but the unlimited stuff has really never been promised as a priority and the legacy schedule IS the one schedule they've sort of managed to keep. Not saying I'm super thrilled with MK4's shambling release.
Basically a new strain of dragonspawn that gained independence from Everblight. They're very much of the Legion template but with Saeryn's tendency for more snake like designs.
Call me a bitter ex-WM player, but bloody hell those look horrible.
WarmaHordes had simple faction identifiable color schemes - Cygnar is blue, Khador is red, etc. These minis are just a jumble of metal, cream, purple, red, yellow, etc.
And IMO they're kind of a ripoff of the mecha-Legion guy that converted his whole army to be robotic
ScarletRose wrote: Call me a bitter ex-WM player, but bloody hell those look horrible.
WarmaHordes had simple faction identifiable color schemes - Cygnar is blue, Khador is red, etc. These minis are just a jumble of metal, cream, purple, red, yellow, etc.
And IMO they're kind of a ripoff of the mecha-Legion guy that converted his whole army to be robotic
This oddly isn't even the mecha-Legion half of Khymera. They've just got Angel painting everything (except maybe Khador and Trolls) in a severely overdone NMM style that overwhelms the underlying color scheme horribly. I'd hoped they'd stopped as it seemed to be getting better, but these definitely restore the problem and will likely look much better in a normal scheme.
ScarletRose wrote: And IMO they're kind of a ripoff of the mecha-Legion guy that converted his whole army to be robotic
I heard that's literally the inspiration for the army In the same way that Farrow were long ago a conversion that somebody made to turn Trollbloods into Pigdudes (according to my Pressganger buddy).
Anyway, I love the purple snek things. Also WOW at Invictus, very much Mangler and Renegade rebuilt on a Cygnar-style chassis. Pretty rad.
I want to like that new Magnus. He was my favorite character back in the day. But his rocket launcher is out of place and the model is really static. Shame.
Magnus is whatever, the Jack is sweet. I like the Kymerae models too although I get the issue with the paint jobs. Very well done, but a bit much for product shots maybe.
Magnus' warjack is pretty nice looking - but it looks like it has two heads. Like, I'm familiar enough with PP style to know where the actual head is - but just looking at it - the red glowing thing just under the smokestacks looks like a head to me.
Schmapdi wrote: Magnus' warjack is pretty nice looking - but it looks like it has two heads. Like, I'm familiar enough with PP style to know where the actual head is - but just looking at it - the red glowing thing just under the smokestacks looks like a head to me.
It's his arc node. But yup, it looks like an armoured head.
stonehorse wrote: Magnus and his new Jack look awesome.... and so far are the only good looking thing from MKIV.
Yeah seriously. I loved my old heavily customized Magnus army running the various versions of his subfaction. If PP hadn't already effectively canned a large chunk of my collection in an earlier edition change I'd be thrilled with this, but yeah it's still a stand-out kit from a company that's disappointed me too many times. Maybe I'll get it for nostalgia if I ever see it pop up for cheap.
stonehorse wrote: Magnus and his new Jack look awesome.... and so far are the only good looking thing from MKIV.
Yeah seriously. I loved my old heavily customized Magnus army running the various versions of his subfaction. If PP hadn't already effectively canned a large chunk of my collection in an earlier edition change I'd be thrilled with this, but yeah it's still a stand-out kit from a company that's disappointed me too many times. Maybe I'll get it for nostalgia if I ever see it pop up for cheap.
I'm mostly just disappointed I can't run it in my actual Magnus2 list. :(
Schmapdi wrote: Magnus' warjack is pretty nice looking - but it looks like it has two heads. Like, I'm familiar enough with PP style to know where the actual head is - but just looking at it - the red glowing thing just under the smokestacks looks like a head to me.
It's his arc node. But yup, it looks like an armoured head.
odinsgrandson wrote: I haven't been following the most recent fluff. Did Magnus get banished from Cygnar once again?
I'm not sure if they've revealed the fluff behind him, but I suspect King Julius dying of the plague he's lost his place in Cygnar and with Vinter dead it makes the most sense for him to take his particular brand of Warjack design where its more wanted.
But I'm so on the fence right now with even if its worth investing into Warmachine with how its going. I'm also wondering if I wait long enough they'll just start selling STLs I can print at home on my own printer
But I'm so on the fence right now with even if its worth investing into Warmachine with how its going. I'm also wondering if I wait long enough they'll just start selling STLs I can print at home on my own printer
I quite like Mk4, but I'm very frustrated with the timelines. I think the army box is probably worth picking up once the expansion is out, but there's no need to rush in and be an early adopter. By the time you can buy it, we'll have a better idea of the state of the game.
But I'm so on the fence right now with even if its worth investing into Warmachine with how its going. I'm also wondering if I wait long enough they'll just start selling STLs I can print at home on my own printer
I think MKIV is a cleaner rule set, but the setting hasn't got the same draw that the original had.
What is really hindering the release is how slow they are at getting rules for all the pre MKIV stuff, a new edition that has a good chunk of the fan base unable to try it out, due to lack of rules for models is not ideal.
But I'm so on the fence right now with even if its worth investing into Warmachine with how its going. I'm also wondering if I wait long enough they'll just start selling STLs I can print at home on my own printer
I think MKIV is a cleaner rule set, but the setting hasn't got the same draw that the original had.
What is really hindering the release is how slow they are at getting rules for all the pre MKIV stuff, a new edition that has a good chunk of the fan base unable to try it out, due to lack of rules for models is not ideal.
Agree with your point, the timeline skip really kills my interest in the game since it is not only a setting I don't have much investment in now, but I will have to rebuy my whole army in VERY expensive 3d printed minis.
But I'm so on the fence right now with even if its worth investing into Warmachine with how its going. I'm also wondering if I wait long enough they'll just start selling STLs I can print at home on my own printer
I think MKIV is a cleaner rule set, but the setting hasn't got the same draw that the original had.
What is really hindering the release is how slow they are at getting rules for all the pre MKIV stuff, a new edition that has a good chunk of the fan base unable to try it out, due to lack of rules for models is not ideal.
All of the Prime format models have had rules for a month or so now. They've actually been far ahead of their roadmap on that front. It's the new armies that they've been previewing and not been able to release on time.
Overread wrote: I'm also wondering if I wait long enough they'll just start selling STLs I can print at home on my own printer
Part of me is over here with you. I have so many other things going on, and WM's prices are so high and game presence so low, that I'm content to wait and keep checking in to see if they've relented yet
But I'm so on the fence right now with even if its worth investing into Warmachine with how its going. I'm also wondering if I wait long enough they'll just start selling STLs I can print at home on my own printer
I think MKIV is a cleaner rule set, but the setting hasn't got the same draw that the original had.
What is really hindering the release is how slow they are at getting rules for all the pre MKIV stuff, a new edition that has a good chunk of the fan base unable to try it out, due to lack of rules for models is not ideal.
All of the Prime format models have had rules for a month or so now. They've actually been far ahead of their roadmap on that front. It's the new armies that they've been previewing and not been able to release on time.
I've forgotten what the deal is - are the cards avialable on an app or something to check out?
They are way past their golden days. I have spoken to a few former employees and they all say that the owner is problematic. Don't expect things to get better.
Tough financial times can make manages do odd things that might on the outside appear strange, but make sense from the numbers. IT can also be that sometimes a manager has skill at running a firm doing well, but lacks the understanding to identify problems and rebuild when things are going wrong. This can be especially hard if the firm downsizes and loses key skilled staff who might have had that knowledge.
It all gets worse if the person at the top has personality issues or approaches the business in a way that isn't conductive to growth or maximising investments or such.
But I'm so on the fence right now with even if its worth investing into Warmachine with how its going. I'm also wondering if I wait long enough they'll just start selling STLs I can print at home on my own printer
I think MKIV is a cleaner rule set, but the setting hasn't got the same draw that the original had.
What is really hindering the release is how slow they are at getting rules for all the pre MKIV stuff, a new edition that has a good chunk of the fan base unable to try it out, due to lack of rules for models is not ideal.
All of the Prime format models have had rules for a month or so now. They've actually been far ahead of their roadmap on that front. It's the new armies that they've been previewing and not been able to release on time.
Just checked the app, and nope a lot if the old stuff is still missing from the Unlimited format. Thus is what is, I beg putting people off. They will have large collections and can not use it. As is I can only build forces for a few of the factions.
I may just stick with MK2 and incorporate some of the changes that work in MKIV.
Toofast wrote: I thought 3D printing was supposed to prevent the supply issues they had in the past. Looks like new format, same old problems from PP.
Some of them, yes - mainly that of having their crap stolen by overseas manufacturing partners not beholden to the US justice system, as well as the quality of the minis. I don't think Privateer Press anticipated the level of demand for their products that was actually out there once they got around to producing and releasing new goods - its a good problem to have, but only if you can actually fix the problem in a reasonable timeframe and scale your production. It seems PP is still struggling with that part of it. Likewise, while the quality is way better, the fragility is way worse, so a bit of a pick your poison situation there.
I've forgotten what the deal is - are the cards avialable on an app or something to check out?
Yeah. The Warmachine app is free and has all the rules released so far. There's a subscription option, but its just to unlock the narrative fluff they're releasing each week and isn't at all require for play.
Just checked the app, and nope a lot if the old stuff is still missing from the Unlimited format. Thus is what is, I beg putting people off. They will have large collections and can not use it. As is I can only build forces for a few of the factions.
I may just stick with MK2 and incorporate some of the changes that work in MKIV.
Right. Everything for Prime is released with the Unlimited options mostly being Mercenaries. The full rules for Unlimited models was always scheduled for end of 2023.
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Sasorijap wrote: They are way past their golden days. I have spoken to a few former employees and they all say that the owner is problematic. Don't expect things to get better.
Matt Wilson is obviously very focused on maintaining ownership of his brand and remaining independent. It's good in the sense that it keeps them from becoming just another Asmodee cog, but definitely limits their ability to grow and keep up with a market that's rapidly growing beyond the means of manually spun model production.
Overread wrote: Tough financial times can make manages do odd things
Tough financial times? Tabletop gaming has absolutely EXPLODED in the past few years. It's like video games in the 1990s. That's why I think PP is in real trouble. GW had to upgrade the power grid in their entire town to increase their production capacity and then build a bigger warehouse. Still half their core range is out of stock online, FLGS haven't been able to keep product on the shelf for months, etc because of the increase in demand.
Overread wrote: Tough financial times can make manages do odd things
Tough financial times? Tabletop gaming has absolutely EXPLODED in the past few years. It's like video games in the 1990s. That's why I think PP is in real trouble. GW had to upgrade the power grid in their entire town to increase their production capacity and then build a bigger warehouse. Still half their core range is out of stock online, FLGS haven't been able to keep product on the shelf for months, etc because of the increase in demand.
GW is certainly seeing insane demand and multiple other firms have grown too.
But some haven't.
PP has honestly shrunk - even their RPG material feels like they don't put out as much as they could/should in theory because that market has grown even more (seriously random 5thed compatible books on KS regularly fund for near or over $100K). They've made mistakes, had setbacks (Monster ApocKS is a huge setback on what is probably one of their best selling model lines right now) and more.
They aren't alone - Dropfleet Commander and Dropzone Commander basically got left the entire market in both their games because GW hadn't invested into them in decades and Spartan Games went bankrupt and whilst Dystopian Wars is back, Warcradle are playing a slower game at releasing and are no way near returning to land games nor space games for a good while. So both the Drop games should have erupted in popularity and grown fast - and they haven't and if you check the threads on them there's also theory that the firm that they were sold too has missmanaged/not managed correctly to capitalise on having an open market.
Dropzone is going to feel it with GW now pushing into that market of games - then again it could spark interst and GW are being slow in making it 30K only so its all Imperial VS Imperial so there will be more than enough "I want aliens/other stuff" fans to excite and capitalise on.
They've made mistakes, had setbacks (Monster ApocKS is a huge setback on what is probably one of their best selling model lines right now) and more
Yeah, as someone who joined the MonPoc KS, it's been an absolute disaster. I'm hoping PP got paid at least partially in advance for that because right now I'm wondering whether I'll ever see the product I paid for (meanwhile, I keep getting "Darkest Dungeon is awesome! Buy it now!" e-mails in my inbox). Hopefully it'll work out in the end. But PP's probably kicking themselves right now, and wishing that they'd never heard of Mythic.
They've made mistakes, had setbacks (Monster ApocKS is a huge setback on what is probably one of their best selling model lines right now) and more
Yeah, as someone who joined the MonPoc KS, it's been an absolute disaster. I'm hoping PP got paid at least partially in advance for that because right now I'm wondering whether I'll ever see the product I paid for (meanwhile, I keep getting "Darkest Dungeon is awesome! Buy it now!" e-mails in my inbox). Hopefully it'll work out in the end. But PP's probably kicking themselves right now, and wishing that they'd never heard of Mythic.
PP just seems to do a ridiculously poor job of vetting business partners.
The Warmachine tactics video games - disaster. Never fully finished. It could have been a real boon had it even been a decent game.
The people they worked with in China literally stealing their molds, etc - and models were always kinda gak.
Farm out the MonPoc KS game and it's another disaster.
From what I remember the Warmachine app was a buggy, reviled mess and drew a lot of flack it's first year or two of existence as well.
They've made mistakes, had setbacks (Monster ApocKS is a huge setback on what is probably one of their best selling model lines right now) and more
Yeah, as someone who joined the MonPoc KS, it's been an absolute disaster. I'm hoping PP got paid at least partially in advance for that because right now I'm wondering whether I'll ever see the product I paid for (meanwhile, I keep getting "Darkest Dungeon is awesome! Buy it now!" e-mails in my inbox). Hopefully it'll work out in the end. But PP's probably kicking themselves right now, and wishing that they'd never heard of Mythic.
PP just seems to do a ridiculously poor job of vetting business partners.
The Warmachine tactics video games - disaster. Never fully finished. It could have been a real boon had it even been a decent game.
The people they worked with in China literally stealing their molds, etc - and models were always kinda gak.
Farm out the MonPoc KS game and it's another disaster.
From what I remember the Warmachine app was a buggy, reviled mess and drew a lot of flack it's first year or two of existence as well.
There were bugs to begin with but War Room app ended up being far and away the best in game army stat/wound/reference I have ever used, And it got better with the second version. Also for about $100 US you got the rules for every unit/character in the game and could use them in battles. A one off payment, unlike GW.
As someone who plays games with apps whenever possible, I'll say that outside of the Malifaux app (which didn't exist for the first couple gens of WarRoom), the Warmachine app has consistently been the best availble to actually play with. Infinity has generally been up there but it took a bit for it to make weapon lookups functional.
A lot of people's complaints around WarRoom come from really only wanting a list builder and finding easy fan made options for that without rules or gameplay. While there were definitely some excellent alternatives, they always have the problem of their creator getting tired of doing all that work for free. It also, in its early days was a battery hog and better optimized for tablets than phones. What PP really had developed was not so much the app itself, but the backend that allows their rules team to update stats without needing work from the developer.
The new app is still one of the best, though the competition is definitely tighter. It's still one of the few that feels fully optimized around playing a full game from my phone.
Overread wrote: Tough financial times can make manages do odd things
Tough financial times? Tabletop gaming has absolutely EXPLODED in the past few years. It's like video games in the 1990s. That's why I think PP is in real trouble. GW had to upgrade the power grid in their entire town to increase their production capacity and then build a bigger warehouse. Still half their core range is out of stock online, FLGS haven't been able to keep product on the shelf for months, etc because of the increase in demand.
Exploding popularity is only helpful if you can scale up to meet demand. At the moment, the tech to do so is fairly limited and VERY expensive. That's why you're seeing so much growth out of a few publicly traded players. GW, Asmodee, Hasbro/WotC are really the only companies that can afford the current climate of manufacturing and distribution and we're seeing a ton of consolidation around those companies.
There are a few outliers. CMoN has effectively dominated the KS market and turned it into a nearly private distribution network and Wyrd made some Faustian bargain that I'd love to know the secret of but has managed to find a sustainable niche. In general, smaller games just don't grow beyond the bounds of in house manufacturing and direct distribution. They remain small, but stable.
PPs problem is they got too big around the time that the technology and market that got them there got swept up by the bigger fish. The materials affordable to a small studio like pewter or resin just don't create competitively priced armies of the kind of scale Warmachine has gotten to. We're in a world where the big fish dominate and while you can get by as a small fry, there's just very little means for anyone stuck in the middle.
PP has honestly shrunk - even their RPG material feels like they don't put out as much as they could/should in theory because that market has grown even more (seriously random 5thed compatible books on KS regularly fund for near or over $100K). They've made mistakes, had setbacks (Monster ApocKS is a huge setback on what is probably one of their best selling model lines right now) and more.
This is common with any RPG setting. The core book sells really well and each one after that has diminishing returns as only a fraction of what the core did. I've heard numbers ranging from around 15-20% thrown out for years by people. It's a running meme in a lot of th Shadowrun communities on how they can predict a new edition in the pipeline. This is why Wizards really doesn't do much with setting specific stuff in 5th. One book and one campaign at most and then move on to the next while releasing stuff that works in any setting.
All those random books you mentioned pulling in 100k would easily see a massive drop for their next book so I don't think it's a fair thing to hit PP about as even D&D and other larger games have these issues.
The real question to me is if they'll manage to grab casual players' attention with this new version instead of doing the mistake on focusing on competition scene only like in the past.
That's how they can grab enough new blood to have a healthy playing community on long term. If it's filled only with hardcore competitive players, it can only die quick.
I think Mk4 is well suited to do just that, but PP has kind of failed to make it happen. Falling back on SR22 for scenarios and not having models for the new armies ready has pretty quickly forced the community to drift back to the 100 point level that's both too large for new players and too large to take advantage of the Mk4 changes. I'm hoping they can manage some kind of soft Mk4 re-relaunch towards the end of the year with a 50-75 point focused SR, a good selection of product for new armies and full legacy model rules.
WARMACHINE – NOVEMBER Premium Bundle – Brick-and-Mortar Retailers Only
PIP 21125 MSRP: $331.88
Includes:
2 x 21040 Storm Forge – Cygnar Cadre
2 x 26008 Nissak, Totem Huntress Champion – Mercenary Character Solo
2 x 26009 Madam Moriarty – Mercenary Character Solo
2 x 26010 Bellighul, Master of Pain – Mercenary Character Solo
2 x 26011 Zacchaeus, Winter’s Chill – Mercenary Character Solo
2x 26012 Greygore Boomhowler – Mercenary Character Solo
FREE! 2 preview Khymaera Shadowflame Shard models!
Note: This item is only available as a preordered item and will only be available for one time during the month it releases while supplies last. Orders will not be accepted for this item after the preorder window closes or after its release month.
WARMACHINE – Storm Forge – Cygnar Cadre
PIP 21040 MSRP: $84.99
The stormsmiths of Cygnar have long supported the nation’s powerful military forces in the field. Embracing advanced galvanic and mechanikal technologies with a gleeful enthusiasm that touches on madness, the arcanists of the Storm Forge maintain this tradition to the present day. Manipulating the weather and harnessing the raw power of nature, the soldiers of the Storm Forge fight alongside the Storm Legion and other branches of Cygnar’s armed forces; for them, the sky is both weapon and shield.
CONTAINS:
Master Mechanik Adept Figmund Sparkhammer
Specialist Tyson Vos
Storm Callers Unit (3 models)
Storm Vanes Unit (3 models)
Weather Tower Weapon Crew
TRADE POINTS
Master Mechanik Adept Figmund Sparkhammer offers the Storm Legion a fourth warcaster option.
The Storm Forge cadre can be added to the Storm Legion and forthcoming Cygnar armies.
In addition to their offensive capabilities, this cadre utilizes electrical forces for a wide variety of tabletop effects.
WARMACHINE – Nissak, Totem Huntress Champion – Mercenary Character Solo
PIP 26008 MSRP: $13.99
Hailing from the fabled lands of Zu, Nissak made her way to western Immoren as a stowaway aboard a merchant steamer. She had come to test her skills in a new land and to make a legend for herself written in the blood of those who shall fall before her. Nissak strikes from the shadows, eviscerating her foes with her silent throwing blade before moving in for the kill.
TRADE POINTS
Nissak will work for the Brineblood Marauders and the Shadowflame Shard.
Her massive throwing blade has the Decapitation special rule, which says, “Damage exceeding the ARM of the model hit is doubled. A model disabled by this attack cannot make a Tough roll.”
Nissak has Advance Deployment, Ambush, Pathfinder, and Stealth.
WARMACHINE – Madam Moriarty – Mercenary Character Solo
PIP 26009 MSRP: $15.99
Madam Moriarty is a powerful gatorman bokor and spirit weaver. Once a rival of Barnabas and the Blindwater Congregation, she was forced from the traditional territories of her people when he attained godhood. She has since haunted the less-civilized ports of Immoren seeking her fortunes. A whisperer to the dead, she is often sought for her talents from those in this life…and the next.
TRADE POINTS
Madam Moriarty will work for the Brineblood Marauders as well as a forthcoming army.
Powerful spellcaster with the ability to collect souls.
Madam Moriarty can use her magic to manipulate the die rolls of both friendly and enemy models.
WARMACHINE – Bellighul, Master of Pain – Mercenary Character Solo
PIP 26010 MSRP: $13.99
Left behind in the wake of the defeat of the skorne by the combined forces of Ios, Bellighul barters his gruesome skills across the wastes. He is renowned both for his mastery of beasts and his capacity to inflict physical suffering upon any unlucky enough to fall under his lash. It is a hard life for a stranger in a strange land, but Bellighul is a consummate survivor who has never flinched in the face of pain—especially someone else’s.
TRADE POINTS
Bellighul will work for the Shadowflame Shard as well as a forthcoming army.
Possesses the Condition: Enrage and the Medicate special action.
Can give Tough to friendly living warrior models in his vicinity.
WARMACHINE – Zacchaeus, Winter’s Chill – Mercenary Character Solo
PIP 26011 MSRP: $21.99
A fearsome rider on the winter’s wind, Zacchaeus and his great snow hare have terrified wayward children in the far north for generations immemorial. It is said that where the hare takes him, deathly cold and starvation follow. Bound for a time in the service of an ancient hag, Zacchaeus missed the Wicked Harvest and recently slipped his bondage. He now moves through a world much changed and seeks purpose amongst its ashes.
TRADE POINTS
Zacchaeus will work for the Shadowflame Shard as well as a forthcoming army.
Zacchaeus is a grymkin cavalry model with Dual Attack, Pathfinder, Resistance: Cold, and Unstoppable.
His attacks freeze enemy models in their tracks.
WARMACHINE – Greygore Boomhowler – Mercenary Character Solo
PIP 26012 MSRP: $14.99
Greygore Boomhowler is a veteran trollkin mercenary of countless wars. A fellcaller like his sister, Admiral Thorga Boomhowler of the Brineblood Marauders, Greygore is skilled at using his powerful voice as a weapon. As the world has grown stranger and more dangerous, Greygore has had to travel farther afield seeking work, extending his ample ring of contacts across the whole of western Immoren and beyond.
TRADE POINTS
Greygore Boomhowler will work for the Brineblood Marauders as well as a forthcoming army.
Boomhowler’s Fellcall ranged attack is a spray weapon menu of Attack Types.
Can we tell how well the new edition of Warmachine is doing?
Locally it seems like we don't have a lot of takers (yet). But I'd like to paint many of those new minis.
I haven't really seen any activity for the game locally, a few players in the area have had musings of playing Brawlmachine with Mk. III rules just to find something to do with our old armies, but no real interest in Mk. III in my area.
id guess the new model (and bad feelings from getting stuck with now dead stock) means it's not going to show up in many stores so even if it is rebounding it's probably going to be with home playing groups out of sight unless your in their gaming circle
id guess the new model (and bad feelings from getting stuck with now dead stock) means it's not going to show up in many stores so even if it is rebounding it's probably going to be with home playing groups out of sight unless your in their gaming circle
Do a lot of retailers consider it a personal affront when new stuff phases out old stuff?
I figure that any store that has a big regular Warmachine showing will be able to keep it up with the Mk4 releases.
Then there's the question- will stores want to pick this up if they previously phased out their stock of Warmachine? Many stores around here clearanced out their Warmachine stock already- I wonder if they'd be more or less inclined to pick up the new version.
From their talk, it sounded like the new format of giant mega bundles was to appeal to distribution (who seem to disapprove of having a thousand SKUs for a single game).
odinsgrandson wrote: Then there's the question- will stores want to pick this up if they previously phased out their stock of Warmachine? Many stores around here clearanced out their Warmachine stock already- I wonder if they'd be more or less inclined to pick up the new version.
Given that the new version largely revolves around print-on-demand rather than retail stock that stores can actually sell, there's going to be very little incentive for stores to support it.
and this-
From their talk, it sounded like the new format of giant mega bundles was to appeal to distribution (who seem to disapprove of having a thousand SKUs for a single game).
Stores that were already stuck with unsellable stock from the previous edition are unlikely to be particularly interested in investing in slow moving mega-bundles. Cutting down the number of SKUs is one thing, but chucking out any opportunity for impulse sales in favour of expensive army boxes is not going to be an attractive option for retailers.
The game died in both of my local metas when 40k 8th edition came out. People had sat out most of 6th and 7th to play WMH and XWing. 8th launched with the indexes and no codexes, along with a fairly big revamp, and it brought people back to 40k. Since then, Battletech and several other Star Wars games have come along, GW relaunched most of their specialist games, Infinity got a slight bump in popularity, and it's going to be 10x more difficult now to gain players than it was when MkII came out.
odinsgrandson wrote: Then there's the question- will stores want to pick this up if they previously phased out their stock of Warmachine? Many stores around here clearanced out their Warmachine stock already- I wonder if they'd be more or less inclined to pick up the new version.
Given that the new version largely revolves around print-on-demand rather than retail stock that stores can actually sell, there's going to be very little incentive for stores to support it.
and this-
From their talk, it sounded like the new format of giant mega bundles was to appeal to distribution (who seem to disapprove of having a thousand SKUs for a single game).
Stores that were already stuck with unsellable stock from the previous edition are unlikely to be particularly interested in investing in slow moving mega-bundles. Cutting down the number of SKUs is one thing, but chucking out any opportunity for impulse sales in favour of expensive army boxes is not going to be an attractive option for retailers.
Nor customers. If the game is flagging then mega-bundles are only ever going to sell in hotbed locations. They won't expand out into new regions or get old game groups coming back.
By all means have them, but they really need to push cheaper starter sets.
Honestly I've a feeling PP will soon be following Mantic, Mierce and Creature Caster into providing both cast/printed and STL versions of models.
Locally there is a few guys who play Warmachine on Monday nights. It uses one table out of the 32 tables the store has. The store does not carry Warmachine that I have seen.
Used to be Massive here, home of the Muse on Minis guys, but third edition really killed it off and forth failed to bring them back. I keep thinking I wanna check it out but have never bothered to actually sit down and read all the new rules. Oddly enough the flgs still has MonPoc and even some Warcaster, but no Warmachine.
AduroT wrote: Used to be Massive here, home of the Muse on Minis guys, but third edition really killed it off and forth failed to bring them back. I keep thinking I wanna check it out but have never bothered to actually sit down and read all the new rules. Oddly enough the flgs still has MonPoc and even some Warcaster, but no Warmachine.
Warcaster... are PP even supporting that game anymore, or is it done.
Whizzing through my usual online plastic crack dealers?
Darksphere, Element and Goblin Gaming don’t carry Warmahordes. And I’ve never seen it on Chaos Card’s shelves in the year and a bit since I lived in Folkestone.
Firestorm Games are also pretty empty of stock and they've always held an ok amount of WarmachineHordes over the years. Warcaster is stuck - I think PP moving away from production and metal means they aren't making anything new for it and whilst they did get things out REALLY well during the Pandemic; launching them seriously aborted the games growth potential.
Which is a huge shame because I really love the system they've got going for it.
But yeah I figure Warcaster is sitting there waiting for them to 3D print design it and go that path; which as Warmachine is already stalling on stock supplies from 3D printing; means Warcaster is just out to pasture right now.
Darksphere, Element and Goblin Gaming don’t carry Warmahordes. And I’ve never seen it on Chaos Card’s shelves in the year and a bit since I lived in Folkestone.
So….pretty dead in the UK so far as I can tell?
Pretty much every meta I knew, both down in London where I used to live and up north where I now happily reside are pretty much dead. yes there are people playing but they are the die hard subset of the competitive scene from years past. I see no evidence of any new blood. Some stores have PP MK4 stuff "to order" but don't have it in store because 1) its not selling and 2) they can't get hold of it anyway. Every player knew in Mk2 and Mk3 have now walked away or like me are "going to come back later and see".
Its not been advertised by the company, its not pushed by anyone, its not stocked, PP is behind on getting stuff out, UK stores can't/wont get it and the product is price a premium levels for a game/company that has a really bad reputation.
Im only one person but it seems like a reoccurring theme. Its pretty dire for the game if im honest. And im sad about it. But the company and community is reaping what it sowed.
I feel like it's more a question of a shift of the community, since PP focused more on 3D printing and, most importantly, crowdfunding sites like CMON. It's not really a surprise we don't see a lot of return from traditionnal clubs and retailers.
I'd say the fans are less vocal in these channels naturally, because they don't use them anymore. So they play in their own circles through their own social media (mostly closed) circles. Doesn't mean PP doesn't make money, but it simply means the game is less "publicly shown" than before. It's a very vicious circle.
Thing is 3D printing as PP are doing it is purely production. Consumer wise it should be no different to casting because PP are still intending to distribute through normal channels. It really should be just like shifting from metal to plastic. It shouldn't influence the market in the sense of suddenly changing demographics.
Overread wrote: Thing is 3D printing as PP are doing it is purely production. Consumer wise it should be no different to casting because PP are still intending to distribute through normal channels. It really should be just like shifting from metal to plastic. It shouldn't influence the market in the sense of suddenly changing demographics.
There's some advantages in terms of being able to produce product in the EU for distribution, but overall you're correct.
We've got interest in MK4 locally but its very stalled due to the lack of product. PP keeps promising new content but hasn't gotten the Dusk starter out and that leaves me hard pressed to sell the game to the people who have been excited about stuff like Khymera. I've played quite a bit and overall I'm really happy with the edition, but its definitely not "out" yet. It's largely Mk3 armies on Mk3 scenarios playing with new unit sizes and movement.
I think MK4's best chance for success is a soft relaunch with SR24. Basically an opportunity to resell the game in its complete form as opposed to the relatively robust but ultimately still extended beta rollout we've seen this year. Hit the end of the roadmap. New armies to come, cadres to release, etc, but the core objectives have been reached.
- Legacy Army Rules Complete
- First 6 (?) new army starters available for purchase
- New SR with a focus on 75 point games (starter plus expansion) well suited for 50 point games (starter boxes)
What they can't afford at this point is let the legacy armies continue to define the game into SR24. The new rules and products are built around selling people a very fulfilling 50 point experience that is easily expanded into a deeper 75 point game. That's a game that I can sell to players both new and old, but that can't really happen if the scenarios remain focused on the Mk3 scale game or if PP can't actually get product to shelves. I think it can be done, but at the moment I'm not certain PP is focused on making it happen.
spiralingcadaver wrote: You don't need to take something personally to be burnt by a business model and not want to work with them again.
Sure- but retailers deal with this all the time- especially from Games Workshop. So they don't stop working with companies that use this business model (the model of producing new editions and phasing out old things).
I can see them complain about outdated stock in a more general sense, but I'm having a hard time imagining a retailer that would take this personally enough to not stock a game if they think it will sell.
That's the thing I'm seeing locally. None of the old players want to return (most were Hordes players and the new edition has had nothing to offer them that they want). The competitive scene got too toxic locally before I moved to the area, then the edition changes burned the LGS so bad he refuses to order anything PP. MESBG, ASOI&F, and even Xwing have more traction locally that WM.
odinsgrandson wrote: Then there's the question- will stores want to pick this up if they previously phased out their stock of Warmachine? Many stores around here clearanced out their Warmachine stock already- I wonder if they'd be more or less inclined to pick up the new version.
Both of my LGS are hard passes on PP beyond MonPoc. I asked them if they were taking orders for MK4 about a year ago and I received very solid NO's in both cases Seems like MK3 was the killer, and neither owner sees any reason to jump through PP's ordering hoops to put very expensive MK4 boxed armies on the shelf that have a low likelihood of moving (as I was told by the one that still sells MonPoc). In fact, it wasn't until this last weekend when I was in Hamilton, ON for a Kings of War tournament that I saw my first MK4 boxes! And I must say they do look good. I picked up a siege tarask for a tight $80 CAD to commemorate the moment.
But in other news, I just plonked another $100 USD on Cryx stuff because I really would like to paint up the Cryx I started 10+ years ago I know a few dudes locally I can play with, and I'm headed to Gen Con next year, where having 75 pts of undead pirate robots seems like a relevant thing to have.
Which makes me wonder if Mark IV is rebounding the game from a low point, or if it is pushing the remnant off a cliff.
I think its overall exactly what it needs to be to rebound. I'm just not sure the market is actually up for second chances these days, nor am I certain PP can deliver what is needed to make it happen.
I've enjoyed the few random figures that Privateer have deemed worthy to sell individually.
I know they're in the market to sell their army boxes, but that's not a market I want to enter anymore. Impulse level solo models or small units? Absolutely, I'd love to get more.
I wish they'd offer more of the models from those starters up individually or just let me print them myself.
Of course I also wish they'd do more with their already existing Minicrate sculpts and somehow modify or change them up so they can offer them up again as 3D prints... but we know that won't happen.
Sure- but retailers deal with this all the time- especially from Games Workshop. So they don't stop working with companies that use this business model (the model of producing new editions and phasing out old things).
Sure, but when GW burns you, there's always another big mover coming from them to help you recoup your losses.
Can't say the same about PP, unfortunately.
Locally, there's zero MK4 stuff available, even on the month long order lists that have some truly exotic stuff. No one plays it either, and we have people playing Warzone and Confrontation around here.
My FLGS used to be hugely into Warmahordes. No sign of any play there in quite some time, and the stock was all discounted and sold off some time back. If the staff member who used to play it a lot were still around, perhaps there might be an effort to get it up and running again. But he's long gone, as are the handful of players who I remember playing it back in the day.
Though it's not just Warmahordes. The shutdown broke just about everything at the store (though Warmahordes was already dead by the time that started). People play GW (almost exclusively 40K). And I've heard that there's Shatterpoint being played, although I haven't been by the store on the night it's supposedly played. Other than that, the games that used to be played at the store died during the shutdown.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I wish they'd offer more of the models from those starters up individually or just let me print them myself.
Big same, I very much want the roks from the Orgoth release and very much do not want the Orgoth infantry. Printing them myself would be extra nice. I have been told there's a plan to make units available separately but as we can see, PP is struggling to get their new faction boxes out the door, so not holding my breath on the contents being broken out.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I wish they'd offer more of the models from those starters up individually or just let me print them myself.
Big same, I very much want the roks from the Orgoth release and very much do not want the Orgoth infantry. Printing them myself would be extra nice. I have been told there's a plan to make units available separately but as we can see, PP is struggling to get their new faction boxes out the door, so not holding my breath on the contents being broken out.
Interesting enough they just put a couple Khador units up as singles on their webstore. I'd not count on anything appearing soon though.
LunarSol wrote: Interesting enough they just put a couple Khador units up as singles on their webstore. I'd not count on anything appearing soon though.
It's happening!! For the curious, the available singles are: - Dire Wolf Heavy Warjack - Great Bear Heavy Warjack - Shocktrooper Gunners - Arkanists - Kapitan Ekaterina Baranova
Just FYI, the 3rd caster and warjacks are available for all factions. Those are actually retail releases. The units are the only thing I believe is webstore exclusive.
Sure- but retailers deal with this all the time- especially from Games Workshop. So they don't stop working with companies that use this business model (the model of producing new editions and phasing out old things).
Sure, but when GW burns you, there's always another big mover coming from them to help you recoup your losses.
Can't say the same about PP, unfortunately.
That sounds like a self fulfilling prophesy. Because the reason that PP doesn't have a big mover after finishing out MK III is because game stores don't get onboard with MK IV.
There's definitely feedback affecting momentum, but it's not a self-fulfilling prophecy, it's more of a vicious circle. PP threw their weight around when they were a big fish and could and didn't mind burning some people in the process, turns out they depend on those people in leaner times and aren't big enough to be GW where their momentum and visibility can keep up the cash flow and weather the dissatisfaction. PP burned the store visibility and word of mouth they relied on, and then want people to commit more money to expensive purchases (for instance, even with everything that's burned me, I might have gone in for the new Magnus from nostalgia if it had been a single, but I'm not impulse buying a $70 kit).
Frankly, I've been burned by plenty of games over the years, and there's the part where you take it personally or whatever, but then there's also the part where you've got to ask, what about next time? For instance, with PP's reboot, they're asking players who have committed probably in many cases thousands of dollars to an invalidated collection, to buy a new collection that of course is also haunted by the fact that it exists because they wanted to make money by invalidating a line.
FWIW, I'm not buying mkIV and before that I decided I wouldn't buy Primaris, have basically stuck to that, and don't especially feel like I'm missing out anymore than one does about what a faction you don't play gets something cool, but that's fine: it's nicer to not care about chasing what they want me to chase.
I've said this before, but imagine if they'd listened to other players earlier and did mk4 sooner while they had cash flow. But instead of launching with everything invalidated, they brought back everything, focused on the casual play at smaller sized games and tables, enough to get people back out there playing... Then launched the timeline advance.
They keep acting like their games have a captive market enough that tossing away their old fans with collections is going to be fine, but miss out on the free word of mouth.
Sarigar wrote: Locally there is a few guys who play Warmachine on Monday nights. It uses one table out of the 32 tables the store has. The store does not carry Warmachine that I have seen.
Overall, it appears to have very little interest.
Ah, I see you're local to me. Those guys are actually pretty cool and in a weird way I sort of admire how much they're trying to keep the game going, but yeah man, my normal response to them saying "it's coming back!" is "well let's go to the shelves and buy some...oh...wait..."
Vertrucio wrote: I've said this before, but imagine if they'd listened to other players earlier and did mk4 sooner while they had cash flow. But instead of launching with everything invalidated, they brought back everything, focused on the casual play at smaller sized games and tables, enough to get people back out there playing... Then launched the timeline advance.
They keep acting like their games have a captive market enough that tossing away their old fans with collections is going to be fine, but miss out on the free word of mouth.
The main thing is they can't really continue to provide models for everything. They don't have means of producing more of a lot of it and resculpting isn't likely to produce enough new sales to justify the process, which is why we're getting "new" Khador and Cygnar. Their SKU bloat was completely unmanageable which is why we're seeing the cutoff.
That's not a positive thing mind you. I pretty much agree with the premise. There's no reason there shouldn't be legacy armies for everything. Even if they wanted to stick to two, it would have been far better to blend armies like we've seen with Circle's Wold/Wolfsworn force than cutting Khador to just MoW and Winter Guard (which should have always been one thing even in MK3).
I think the most important failure in Mk4 though is the inability to stick to the 50/75 point plan. It is without question the most important thing for the game going forward, but something PP just hasn't been willing to support.
LunarSol wrote: I think the most important failure in Mk4 though is the inability to stick to the 50/75 point plan. It is without question the most important thing for the game going forward, but something PP just hasn't been willing to support.
All games being (old) 75 point SR or practice therefore is 90% of why I left WM3. Seeing a bunch of (new) 75 point games for WM4 is 90% of why I'm interested again. For me, WM just doesn't feel great when it's at 75/100 ... plus I like when people have to make tougher list decisions, which feels more relevant in 'medium' sized matches.
LunarSol wrote: I think the most important failure in Mk4 though is the inability to stick to the 50/75 point plan. It is without question the most important thing for the game going forward, but something PP just hasn't been willing to support.
All games being (old) 75 point SR or practice therefore is 90% of why I left WM3. Seeing a bunch of (new) 75 point games for WM4 is 90% of why I'm interested again. For me, WM just doesn't feel great when it's at 75/100 ... plus I like when people have to make tougher list decisions, which feels more relevant in 'medium' sized matches.
The game's at Mk4 50 we've played have been a blast. I'm continually impressed by the experience when running Warcaster armies. I feel Warlocks need 75 points to have enough Fury generation and still some list variety, but beyond that I find 100 point games lose a lot of what makes MK4 charming. I just REALLY want some official scenarios that support 50/75 points appropriately. I mostly use the one from the rulebook or the Brawlmachine scenarios, but PP reusing the SR packet makes games just miserable at anything less than 100.
Brawlmachine scenarios are perfect for 50pts and still work well for 75pts. I agree Hordes can't really play in an interesting way at 50pts, sadly. Wouldn't mind suggested points limits to be 50-65-80 but 75 pts battles are in a good place too.
There's certainly been some artistic style changes at PP. I wonder if its the result of monster apoc doing well enough that most of their design team left are more of that style than the Warmachine old school style.
There's also the digital painting that they are going in for with the super cartoonish vibrant colours which can really change the impression of a model. Which has more impact when there are fewer people painting and working with their stuff
Overread wrote: There's certainly been some artistic style changes at PP. I wonder if its the result of monster apoc doing well enough that most of their design team left are more of that style than the Warmachine old school style.
Isn't Matt WIlson the only original team member left, and he's less hands-on now? This is pretty much second-generation Iron Kingdoms now, designed by people inspired by the twenty-years old originals.
Nah, there's a few OG guys still kicking around, Jason Soles is still there for example. Matt's still also very involved and hands on, that's part of the problem.
chaos0xomega wrote: Nah, there's a few OG guys still kicking around, Jason Soles is still there for example. Matt's still also very involved and hands on, that's part of the problem.
Oh well its their company to run to the ground I guess.
Going through my PP metal collections and yeah would love to see more of that for sure. No need to reinvent the wheel specially if you end up with this mess of a model.
NAVARRO wrote: Troolbloods is my faction but these do nothing for me. Way too forced concepts.
I vastly prefer Northkin as a style, but I do enjoy these guys. Shame the Sea King is Legacy because that model is an industry great and should really see more table time.
I have to agree. Whilst Trollbloods always had a cartoony edge to them, they always felt more on the real side; just rowdy and wild like GW orks. These Trollbloods feel far more cartoony, which is really being pushed by the colouring style they are using.
The Kallyss Cav feel far more traditional to PP styles, even if the paintjob there is still looking cartoony.
The Trolls are my thing, but I also own Legacy Trolls AND Legacy pirates and I'm not super fond of the Dire Crab. Once upon a time they would have totally been my first or second army choice but I have a LOT of armies and not enough time to play them all.
I have to agree with you guys, they went too far with the "cute" & cartoony. Even the whelps were more grumpy like. With all that said the cannon has potential.
Well, I was looking at this thread and thinking how great it would be if the owner would start updating the front page. Clicked back a bit and realized....the owner is me....
So anyways, I am working on getting the first post updated and keeping it updated as time goes.
Honestly, most of these units would fit right along side classic trolls just fine. The range always had a lot of silly models (particularly Pygs) and a lot of diverse styles. The only thing that's a little too different for me is the Dire Troll being a crab.
Speaking of the new art directions, I'm an old Cygnar player and the new scultps also leave me cold. They're too technologically advanced, not steampunk. They look like they should be in Warcaster.
.Mikes. wrote: Speaking of the new art directions, I'm an old Cygnar player and the new scultps also leave me cold. They're too technologically advanced, not steampunk. They look like they should be in Warcaster.
I don't feel that's as true when I've seen the models in person. The heavy NMM paint job really does them a disservice, IMO.
This is the first time in a few years that I've taken a look at Warmachine and I don't mind the look of the new stuff, particularly the Orgoth, Kallys and Shadowflame. Might have to get some as painting projects in the future. Shadowflame might look nice painted up to resemble the Metalheads from the Jak 2 and 3.
That is if I can find a store here that sells the starters with a decent discount though, 300+ aud Is a bit much.
This episode of PRIMECAST+ is short but exciting. We show off some of the latest WARMACHINE models for Mercenaries, Brineblood Marauders, and Khymaera. Then, hold onto your hats as reveals take to the skies for our first look at the Shadowflame Shard's Wyvern!
The Wyvern is really cool, and might be the first 80mm super heavy beast? Unless the trolls got one and I missed it.
I've been super happy with the MK4 models I've bought. The game is solidly on the backburner for me right now, but I'm really hoping to give it a push once Shadowflame is available.
Been playing more again and feeling like Mk4 is starting to find its footing again. The SR24 scenarios are a big improvement and model availability has greatly improved. Painting up the new Khador now and looking forward to getting some more games in.
Some of the new models coming out are a mix of amazing and bonkers. Locally the game still just doesn’t exist which is mad given the size of the player base previously
Sunno wrote: Some of the new models coming out are a mix of amazing and bonkers. Locally the game still just doesn’t exist which is mad given the size of the player base previously
I think this harkens back to some of the issues we identified earlier. Eg stripping out whole armies in one go from the game.
I think one mistake PP have done is that they didn't go "lets just take the old models out and update those armies" they've gone and made new armies and new factions. Yes that lets them be creative, but it instantly closed out classic army owners from leaping back in. If you've an Everblight collection you're not encouraged back in its a "you've got to start over pretty much with the new kind-of everblight army"
Now GW have done the same with some Old World armies in not moving them back; however those armies they've not brought back are functional and present in AoS.
Of course neither is a perfect solution, but I think it highlights how GW has at least opened the arms for Old World for a lot of factions whcih draws people with those models instantly back in to bolster the playerbase.
The other avenue is something we touched on earlier which is that Warmachine wasn't appearing as heavily in marketing. With the super high priced starter boxed sets at launch and the lack of a lot of "influencer" elements it was kind of a muted launch. I feel like they are growing in that regard and they've started bringing out cheaper starter packs and the like. But it very much felt like a muted return to sales. That might be intentional to slow grow for a few years so they didn't end up in a stocking issue. Though time will tell if it was the right choice or not .
Ultimately a lot of MK4 is what they had to do. They don't even have access to most of their old sculpts anymore so supporting them is kind of off the table. I don't think resculpting is even a real option. The revamped factions have a lot of resculpt flavor, but they're still dropping huge chunks of what existed before. Either way, I'm not sure it really matters. I don't feel like trying to pull back the old crowd is a winning strategy and the Legacy support is really solid now regardless.
In terms of sales it seems to have pretty significantly exceeded their production capacity, so from their perspective things are going quite well. Interest seems to have picked back up quite a bit now that product is available. FLGS support still seems a crippling problem though and it'll be interesting to see if that can be turned around. Locally though, the game is back on the radar. Certainly hoping things keep improving.
I think they lost some that moved to plastics because the factory in China basically kept them and wouldn't send them back.
But the metal work ones they surely would have.
Thing is its one thing to say "here's the new version of X you can use the new or old model" and "Here's a new faction, you can't use any of the old"
Or rather that the old are no longer supported. It's the kind of change most firms would avoid doing wholesale and would more likely do in bits.
I "kind of" feel that Warmachine itself has faired better whilst Hordes is getting dealt with differently on that front; but even the Warmachine factions are being very heavily rebuilt.
Supposedly they tossed out all their metal/resin molds in a recent relocation. They downsized to a smaller office/warehouse/production facility and didn't have room to hold on to everything. They've been more or less fully-digital for a number of years now so they should have digital sculpts for a decently large segment of their old product range, but they seem disinterested in re-rigging them for 3d print production and making them available to customers, seems they'd rather stick to only releasing new sculpts.
Almost all of their infantry had been moved to plastic, as had the core jacks for each faction. I agree, its the kind of thing firms would avoid doing. I suspect PP has been avoiding it for years and finally just had to bite the bullet and admit they can't support their bloated catalog.
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chaos0xomega wrote: Supposedly they tossed out all their metal/resin molds in a recent relocation. They downsized to a smaller office/warehouse/production facility and didn't have room to hold on to everything. They've been more or less fully-digital for a number of years now so they should have digital sculpts for a decently large segment of their old product range, but they seem disinterested in re-rigging them for 3d print production and making them available to customers, seems they'd rather stick to only releasing new sculpts.
Even if they kept them, the metal line really isn't up to modern standards. There are, absolutely some phenomenal sculpts in the line that hold up, but a lot of that line infantry doesn't really compete. Very likely given a lot of that stuff was in plastic they didn't remake the rubber molds that wore out either. I think though it all comes down to the sheer volume of stuff the game had accumulated and a question of who would actually buy it.
. The offer was too good, even with vat and shipping, and I wanted the cygnar colossal for a long time.
I would agree with that assessment based on my own playtesting.
Entirely for non-
In the same way that Farrow were long ago a conversion that somebody made to turn Trollbloods into Pigdudes (according to my Pressganger buddy).
