Defiler wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:I've been thinking, and I think the power build for DE may very well be a hybrid mech-horde list. Say 2 squads in raiders, archons have WWP. They zoom up forward, drop the WWP, and then they can bring on 20 man warrior units right into the enemy center. Seems like a good way to get your force into the fight right off the bat. Not only that but as I understand it, the WWP is treated as a board edge, so units like Incubi or Wyches, or whatever else is in there with CC prowess can skip getting shot at and run directly into combat!

Can't wait to try that one...

You're wrong.

The WWP army worked in 4th edition, when consolidation into neighboring enemy units after a wiped combat was legal, and vehicles could exit the WWP.

Good luck walking 20 man units on from the portal, that presumably (like the old version) requires your models to fit within their movement's reach of the portal itself - which won't be huge to begin with.

Open topped vehicles, which could exit the portal and drop off their passengers within two inches of any part of their open toppedness worked. Walking huge mobs of wounds that bunch up, have to deal with terrain/blocking enemy units and each other simply won't.

Why are non DE players continuing to post very "sharp" reviews of models/units they have no experience with, or trying to develop tactics they think they overheard some...5 years ago?

You realize you pretty much described yourself? You may very well be a Dark Eldar player already, but the new codex seems to be changing a lot of things around. These are not the same Dark Eldar you started with some 12 years ago.

Also, as a necron player, I know for a fact that you can easily get 20 models into an area within 6inhces of the portal. In fact, I did it in a much smaller area many a time (2" from the monolith portal). The WWP is 3" in diameter, giving you a ridiculously large area to fit your minis in. Sure they will be clustered together, but thats what fleet/run is for.

And consolidation into combat is over-rated (I've played cc-only nids since early 4th. Believe me, noone bitched harder than me when that changed, until I actually played 5th edition and found that it really didn't hamper my effectiveness at all).

If you don't like that playstyle, thats fine, but get off your horse. some of us like to actually have fun when we play, and to do something that every other person isn't already doing.

Just been on the GW website and noticed this blurb under one of the pictures.

"For those of you with heightened vision, there's a box of Harlequins tucked behind the Codex. 'I've always been a fan of Harlequins since they first came out years ago,' Ed said, 'and I was ridiculously excited to see them included in the Dark Eldar Codex for the first time.'"

Is this true? Harlequins in a DE army!

WombleJim wrote:Is this true? Harlequins in a DE army!

Yes, using the same rules as in the CWE codex.

Destrado wrote:

Vovin, with some stuff from Bram Gaunt added wrote:


Orgasm Grenade Launcher: whole unit has offensive and defensive grenades

Seriously?

Things are gonna get mighty funny on the gaming table, I can see this already.

"My warriors fire an orgasm at your Striking Scorpions, so they won't get that extra attack."

"Dude. . ."

"What? The Howling Banshees are next."

"DUDE."

Orgasm is a mis-translation (IIRC). They are called something else in English.

Thanks, Puma. I was going to comment on the orgasm grenade launcher as no one else seemed to catch it.

Probably spasm I bet... If they can't use combat drugs anymore than I don't think they will be able to slide that one in...no pun intended : )

Death By Monkeys wrote:Thanks, Puma. I was going to comment on the orgasm grenade launcher as no one else seemed to catch it.

I wonder if it's anything like the Orgazmorator from the movie Orgazmo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NAtt1bhzN4

Saldiven wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:Thanks, Puma. I was going to comment on the orgasm grenade launcher as no one else seemed to catch it.

I wonder if it's anything like the Orgazmorator from the movie Orgazmo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NAtt1bhzN4

That movie is hilarious.

Actually, its the Phantasm Grenade Launcher. Vovin just thought he was being funny so he changed it (from his post on warseer).

Destrado wrote:I like a lot of stuff, especially all the cool wargear options, the Incubi, the Highborn, the Court of the Archon (can't wait to see models for it) and the mention of the Donorian Clawed Fiend in the Beastmaster entry.

You quoted a very long post just to make that comment. Couldn't you be a bit more selective, or does that take too much effort?

Regarding WWPs, 4th ed. DE WWP armies typically used two WWPs.

And that's still doable, and IMO will be the way to go...it's not a one per army item in the new codex.

Tailgunner wrote:
You quoted a very long post just to make that comment. Couldn't you be a bit more selective, or does that take too much effort?

Maybe next time you can read it elsewhere, if it isn't too much trouble (a lot of new info was from Warseer, but maybe you didn't notice. Please do and save yourself from looking like an arse in the future.)

Yeah, no gak. Destrado has the courtesy to copy what is a very nice and thorough summary of the new codex from warseer, and then you decide that you don't like it because he made a comment about how cool it was?

Anyone else notice that allegedly Reaver Jetbikes get a 36 inch Turbo-boost in addition to that drive-by-and-shred-them attack?

Dayum..

Yes, we discussed that to hell already...

Well. .. what page is that on? I confess to not being able to keep up with 51+ pages in this thread..

Mandrake and Urien Rakarth design notes online.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=13300019a

porkuslime wrote:Well. .. what page is that on? I confess to not being able to keep up with 51+ pages in this thread..

Sorry, I don't have much in the way of sympathy, as I went through about 125 pages on warseer yesterday. If you want to talk about not being able to keep up...Not only that, but some of the stupid stuff that people posted on there made me feel like I was gettin my teeth pulled...

God urein looks freaky, i wonder who stuck his arms on lol...

The new stuff looks amazing, i thought the dark eldar were on the way to the trash bin, especially after gw gave them the boot from store shelves, but these models are incredible, what a come back! I want them so bad!

Don't know. I'm both inspired and uninspired. Seems like a lot of the fail units of old are still just as fail, from a theorycraft point of view anyway.

Specifically scourges and mandrakes. I was really hoping scourges would be the DE's version of a devestator squad. But from the rules summary they seem quite expensive compared to just doing the same thing with different units. The talos also seems very uninspired. DE's version of a wraithlord without the heavy weapon. They seem like something people will completley ignore or just tarpit.

Mandrakes also don't seem to have any functional use. And a lack of grenades for Incubi is also quite meh.

I mean they have a lot of fun rules to help cover up these problems like hellions and bikers. But does anyone else see DE armies being very similar to those currently fielded?

Lots of raider spam, a ravager or 3, archon + incubi. And 2:1 proportion of warriors to wyches?

Another story arch approaches its end:
We all know the old pre-2001 Haemunculi sculpts by Juan Diaz. Guess he convinced GW, because he was allowed to sculpt the master Haemunculus Urien. Maybe the final Haemunculi are indeed pretty close to the first test sculpts, as IMHO they fit perfectly the new DE miniature range.

Nvs wrote:
The talos also seems very uninspired. DE's version of a wraithlord without the heavy weapon. They seem like something people will completley ignore or just tarpit.

Don't Talos generate pain points as they wound. If that's the case then tar pit them all day, they're just making the DE infantry units around them stronger.
Obviously it doesn't really compliment a shooty raider spam list but that's the point.

Urien looks way too similar to Fabius Bile

Samus_aran115 wrote:Urien looks way too similar to Fabius Bile

Didn't Fabius hang out with them? He just picked up terrible genetic abberation techniques AND fashion tips.

Fabius is a great model that looks slightly dated, Urien is just a great model.

Also, YOU look too much like Fabius Bile.
Zing.

plastictrees wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:Urien looks way too similar to Fabius Bile

Didn't Fabius hang out with them? He just picked up terrible genetic abberation techniques AND fashion tips.

Fabius is a great model that looks slightly dated, Urien is just a great model.

Also, YOU look too much like Fabius Bile.
Zing.

They are poker buddies. They used to run the tables at small poker dives in Comorragh together. Especially if it was one of them dealing, a la Rounders.

plastictrees wrote:

Nvs wrote:
The talos also seems very uninspired. DE's version of a wraithlord without the heavy weapon. They seem like something people will completley ignore or just tarpit.

Don't Talos generate pain points as they wound. If that's the case then tar pit them all day, they're just making the DE infantry units around them stronger.
Obviously it doesn't really compliment a shooty raider spam list but that's the point.

Then I guess they'd just ignore it. Unlike the wraithlord who can get a nice long range weapon, the talos supposedly has all short range stuff and moves 6" a turn still I imagine? No one's going to pay it any mind.

Ah, yes. I think Bile learned a lot from them....I've always wanted to take allied DE with my CSM...I'll have to find someone to team up with!

Samus_aran115 wrote:Urien looks way too similar to Fabius Bile

It's an intentional throwback, and I think it looks great.

@Nvs

You should probably read the codex and the options before making sweeping statements. I'm just sayin...

Anyone know if this Duke Sliscus guy is getting a model? Or if there's any artwork of him? His rules sounds pretty cool, naughty Yriel + Space Bowie (Flight of the Conchords anyone?) is going to make him my HQ of choice. I also hope he can get that Archon's Court.

asimo77 wrote:Anyone know if this Duke Sliscus guy is getting a model? Or if there's any artwork of him? His rules sounds pretty cool, naughty Yriel + Space Bowie (Flight of the Conchords anyone?) is going to make him my HQ of choice. I also hope he can get that Archon's Court.

Guess you must use the old model for a while

Oh wow I didn't even know he had one, though I think I might pass...good thing the standard Archon looks great!

Kroothawk wrote:

asimo77 wrote:Anyone know if this Duke Sliscus guy is getting a model? Or if there's any artwork of him? His rules sounds pretty cool, naughty Yriel + Space Bowie (Flight of the Conchords anyone?) is going to make him my HQ of choice. I also hope he can get that Archon's Court.

Guess you must use the old model for a while

asimo77 wrote:Oh wow I didn't even know he had one, though I think I might pass...good thing the standard Archon looks great!

He doesn't. That was a Harlequin that came out before DE was even a gleam in the eye of GW (hint: top right):

Oh forgive my ignorance, though I had a sneaking suspicion that was a harlequin, especially since googling Sliscus did not yield any such image.

asimo77 wrote:Oh forgive my ignorance, though I had a sneaking suspicion that was a harlequin, especially since googling Sliscus did not yield any such image.

I bet. The only reason I knew is because I used the models on that page way back when

Did anyone else think "Harkonnen" from David Lynch's Dune after looking at the three dots in his chest?

Destrado wrote:

Did anyone else think "Harkonnen" from David Lynch's Dune after looking at the three dots in his chest?

Just a bit, yeah. A Dune nod (even to the movie) is never a bad thing though.

Kroothawk wrote:Guess you must use the old model for a while

You know, it's funny how well those old Harlequin models have held up. They're showing their age, but they still kind of work. They don't compare to Jes' new harlies, of course, but they aren't bad at all.

asimo77 wrote:Anyone know if this Duke Sliscus guy is getting a model? Or if there's any artwork of him? His rules sounds pretty cool, naughty Yriel + Space Bowie (Flight of the Conchords anyone?) is going to make him my HQ of choice. I also hope he can get that Archon's Court.

I love his rules. It's what I've called my Archon ever since readind the tid bit in the Space Wolves codex about him ripping out Lukas' heart.
I converted my back in the day out of a Dark Elf corsair and Dark Eldar warrior. The sea dragon cloak kinda seems to fit with his title the 'Serpent' (or something like that).

Nvs wrote:The talos also seems very uninspired. ... They seem like something people will completley ignore or just tarpit.

S7, ignore armour, 2d6-pick-highest attacks

Good luck with that.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Urien looks way too similar to Fabius Bile

Apparently Fabius visited Urien for some tips.... according to rumoured fluff and Jess's comments on GW.

Black boxes and Codices are in the stores already. Just had a look at the Helions (which come with some featureless helmets, should be cool in black with a coat or ard coat), the warriors and their ride. Awesome plastics, great bits.

puma713 wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

asimo77 wrote:Anyone know if this Duke Sliscus guy is getting a model? Or if there's any artwork of him? His rules sounds pretty cool, naughty Yriel + Space Bowie (Flight of the Conchords anyone?) is going to make him my HQ of choice. I also hope he can get that Archon's Court.

Guess you must use the old model for a while

asimo77 wrote:Oh wow I didn't even know he had one, though I think I might pass...good thing the standard Archon looks great!

He doesn't. That was a Harlequin that came out before DE was even a gleam in the eye of GW (hint: top right):

Good job i never binned my old Harliquins could use them now if the rules are decent

That Harlequin pic was a blast from the past. I think I own Trouper 19 and some other RT Eldar.

Prophecy07 wrote:

Destrado wrote:
Did anyone else think "Harkonnen" from David Lynch's Dune after looking at the three dots in his chest?

Just a bit, yeah. A Dune nod (even to the movie) is never a bad thing though.

Kroothawk wrote:Guess you must use the old model for a while

You know, it's funny how well those old Harlequin models have held up. They're showing their age, but they still kind of work. They don't compare to Jes' new harlies, of course, but they aren't bad at all.

I tried very hard to repress all memory of that "film." *vomits in mouth*

Sorry. It's hard to watch your favorite literary work be raped.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Archonate wrote:... That has been a popular DE tactic for eons beyond remembrance.

I wouldn't know, I've never even seen a DE player round these parts. :(

yeh the biggest problem was that you had to close then wait for the webway to open so thats one more turn or weathering a storm of fire.
Never really had it work well for me.

Scottywan82 wrote:

Prophecy07 wrote:

Destrado wrote:
Did anyone else think "Harkonnen" from David Lynch's Dune after looking at the three dots in his chest?

Just a bit, yeah. A Dune nod (even to the movie) is never a bad thing though.

Kroothawk wrote:Guess you must use the old model for a while

You know, it's funny how well those old Harlequin models have held up. They're showing their age, but they still kind of work. They don't compare to Jes' new harlies, of course, but they aren't bad at all.

I tried very hard to repress all memory of that "film." *vomits in mouth*

Sorry. It's hard to watch your favorite literary work be raped.

You know Frank Herbert helped direct the David Lynch's film, right?

Archonate wrote:You know Frank Herbert helped direct the David Lynch's film, right?

Did he also help getting the best character in the book, the planetologist, be almost completely written out of the film and Ridley Scott/HR Giger as director/art director team being fired?

Archonate wrote:
You know Frank Herbert helped direct the David Lynch's film, right?

You know that's not true, right?

Herbert wrote a screenplay for the film, but it was eventually rejected by the production company. He had no hand in the direction or anything else in the film, though he did state he found it acceptable. He was disappointed that some of the scenes he had watched in pre-production were cut.

And to ADD to how awful that movie is:

David Lynch has said he considers this film the only real failure of his career. To this day, he refuses to talk about the production in great detail, and has refused numerous offers to work on a special edition DVD. Lynch claims revisiting the film would be too painful an experience to endure.

Found here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087182/trivia

So, I'm gonna stick with my "raped a literary masterpiece" take.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kroothawk wrote:

Archonate wrote:You know Frank Herbert helped direct the David Lynch's film, right?

Did he also help getting the best character in the book, the planetologist, be almost completely written out of the film and Ridley Scott/HR Giger as director/art director team being fired?

Of course! Why wouldn't he? He despised his own work after all.

Well... that would make sense if he INTENDED for Kevin Anderson to get a hold of it... Hmmm....

THe LA Battle Bunker has a preview copy of the Dark Eldar codex. (They got their black box on Thursday).

52 pages wow, i guess everyone's gonna be buying DE. Thats what put me off the Space Wolves.

Everyone may buy them. Only a portion of those will stick with them.

Sigmatron wrote:Everyone may buy them. Only a portion of those will stick with them.

This. It's going to take a skilled player to thrive with DE, but it's obviously there for the right group. I expect to have a good after-market in 4-6 months for DE on eBay/Dakka swap as the easily frustrated give up on them.

Scottywan82 wrote:

Archonate wrote:
You know Frank Herbert helped direct the David Lynch's film, right?

You know that's not true, right?

Herbert wrote a screenplay for the film, but it was eventually rejected by the production company. He had no hand in the direction or anything else in the film, though he did state he found it acceptable. He was disappointed that some of the scenes he had watched in pre-production were cut.

And to ADD to how awful that movie is:

David Lynch has said he considers this film the only real failure of his career. To this day, he refuses to talk about the production in great detail, and has refused numerous offers to work on a special edition DVD. Lynch claims revisiting the film would be too painful an experience to endure.

Found here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087182/trivia

So, I'm gonna stick with my "raped a literary masterpiece" take.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kroothawk wrote:

Archonate wrote:You know Frank Herbert helped direct the David Lynch's film, right?

Did he also help getting the best character in the book, the planetologist, be almost completely written out of the film and Ridley Scott/HR Giger as director/art director team being fired?

Of course! Why wouldn't he? He despised his own work after all.

Well... that would make sense if he INTENDED for Kevin Anderson to get a hold of it... Hmmm....

Dune was quite possibly the worst movie I have ever seen (and wasted 3 euros on because I didn't know). The first 20/30 minutes or so were alright, but after that, yikes!

The part where they had taped a cat and a rat together with some Christmas lights still is one of the most unintendedly hilarious (in a facepalm kind of way) scenes ever

Has my interest now from a painting point of view, but wont be buying an army.
Just want some nice new sculpts to paint up (nids are fun, but repetitive colours only last soo long)

hoping they get some decent character sculpts soon ish.

TBD wrote:Dune was quite possibly the worst movie I have ever seen (and wasted 3 euros on because I didn't know). The first 20/30 minutes or so were alright, but after that, yikes!

The part where they had taped a cat and a rat together with some Christmas lights still is one of the most unintendedly hilarious (in a facepalm kind of way) scenes ever

Best thing about the Dune movie was the rejected design material by HR Giger, the famous Harkonnen furniture:



Now let's move to on topic discussion again

Wow, Kroot. That's uh...that's definitely NOT how I pictured it when I read Dune.

Prophecy07 wrote:Wow, Kroot. That's uh...that's definitely NOT how I pictured it when I read Dune.

*Yak*.... Me either.

Come to think about it, I was wondering why that Urien freak was so creepy... until I realized his "backpack" could have been made by Giger himself.

So er Dark Eldar will be capturing the worms in order to use Spice to power their dark lances?

lord_blackfang wrote:

Nvs wrote:The talos also seems very uninspired. ... They seem like something people will completley ignore or just tarpit.

S7, ignore armour, 2d6-pick-highest attacks

Good luck with that.

Agree. I really hope the talos gets a new model. It might be like a sentinel kit, where you can make that 'little talos' or 'Big daddy talos' I see no reason to use the talos unless they get a new model, imo.

Yeah, although I like the current model. It could do with a remodel . . . and if that's anything like the concept sketches around (or whatever those drawings where ) then I will definitely be buying one.

Oshova

Phototoxin wrote:So er Dark Eldar will be capturing the worms in order to use Spice to power their dark lances?

No, but Lelith has the same abilities as Miles Teg does after his bout with the T-probe from the scattering. She's just a blur of violence, decapitating people with her bare hands.

Talos getting a new model? Err I assume so. Didn't they say boh that "Everything in the model line was being redone" and "Nothing has been cut".

I'm more intrigued as to the baby Talos though.

Xiahou Dun wrote:Talos getting a new model? Err I assume so. Didn't they say boh that "Everything in the model line was being redone" and "Nothing has been cut".

I'm more intrigued as to the baby Talos though.

Ah, I see. Then I can also count on new haemonulii. The old one's aren't bad at all, but they don't really match urien, sooo.

Baby Talos.....I think that'll end up being it's name

There's still an additional wave to be released afaik.

Rymafyr wrote:There's still an additional wave to be released afaik.

That's true...But I think they'll use that one for the 'new' units in the codex...

IIRC, there is not going to be a new talos model for quite a while. Can anyone confirm this?

Samus_aran115 wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:There's still an additional wave to be released afaik.

That's true...But I think they'll use that one for the 'new' units in the codex...

There is a wave 1.5 and 2nd wave next year ... and the statement that the whole range gets new sculpts.

Munch Munch! wrote:IIRC, there is not going to be a new talos model for quite a while. Can anyone confirm this?

One person said that IIRC, but I don't know who and can't find it ATM. Still, it would be a nice candidate for wave 2.

I dont think everyone uses the term "wave" in the same way.

GW WNT mentions that the second set of releases (mandrakes, hellions, ravager, Urien) and they refer to that as the second wave here;

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=13300004a

I was thining that was wave 1.5, but looks like I was wrong.

Hopefully more will come within a 6 month window, wichever wave it is. I'm still debating forgeworld chaotic ogryns for grotesques, but would be dissapointed if they make some soon (as the artwork for these is just too nice, I'd have to get those too!)

In regards to Urien looking like Bile:

I think the idea is that Bile picked up the idea for his chirigun from Uriens nasty hump...

Phototoxin wrote:So er Dark Eldar will be capturing the worms in order to use Spice to power their dark lances?

Oh well at least they aren't riding the worms, that would be as stupid as superhumans riding wolves, wait.........................

I supose we can only guess at the scant pieces of information being leaked - but the fundamentals of DE will stay the same. A fast moving, high skilled and weakly armoured/toughness army. Deployment and movement phases will be crucial, and protracted combat will be their undoing.

I must say, I am keen to collect this army. I was a Dark Elf fan in WHFB, but never actually made the jump from my empire army to collecting delfs. This time round I'm starting up 40k, and I've been considering a number of armies (non-Imperium, my gaming scene is awash with imperium players). I was sorely tempted to get Tyranids, until i realised they lack models for certain important units - and modding ones of my own I am not good at. So I think DE will be a great option - yes I know they have a steep learning curve, but I'm going to be playing for a number of reasons, not just for the win, but for look and feel, and a challenge too. I will be clooectign slowly so wave 1/5/2 or wahtever will be done by the time I reach my desired army level.

A question then, for the more seasoned players. The Talos: the only 'tough' unit in the list I can see, and yet its movement/deployment options are less than desirable? Used to be able to use the WWP to pull them into assault range in 4th edition, but now that seems impossible with new WWP rules. Therefore, are they to be used? (I know its tough without said rule book) but on a theoretical level, a smaler moving unit of anything, in an army of speed = counterproductive?

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Red Corsair wrote:In regards to Urien looking like Bile:

I think the idea is that Bile picked up the idea for his chirigun from Uriens nasty hump...

That's what I got out of it as well.

Umm for some reason I can't find the rules rumors thread, anyone want to post me a link? Or did it get deleted or moved?

Dracos wrote:Umm for some reason I can't find the rules rumors thread, anyone want to post me a link? Or did it get deleted or moved?

It's gone.

Why do you want the rumors thread? Dark Eldar aren't rumored anymore.

SaintHazard wrote:

Dracos wrote:Umm for some reason I can't find the rules rumors thread, anyone want to post me a link? Or did it get deleted or moved?

It's gone.

Why do you want the rumors thread? Dark Eldar aren't rumored anymore.

It's not gone, it's in 40K General Discussion.

Here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/319496.page

puma713 wrote:It's not gone, it's in 40K General Discussion.

Here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/319496.page

Then there were two?

I know I saw one get closed.

SaintHazard wrote:

puma713 wrote:It's not gone, it's in 40K General Discussion.

Here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/319496.page

Then there were two?

I know I saw one get closed.

Don't think so. That's the same 32-page thread that was in News and Rumors. You may have been thinking of one that came out when the Codex was first mentioned that was locked because there was too little information (I guess). That's the old rumors thread that was moved into discussion because the rumors aren't rumors anymore.

Meh. I could dig it up, but don't particular care.

Anyway, there's your link, person-who-was-asking-for-a-link-to-the-rumors-thread.

iLLiTHiD wrote:I supose we can only guess at the scant pieces of information being leaked - but the fundamentals of DE will stay the same. A fast moving, high skilled and weakly armoured/toughness army. Deployment and movement phases will be crucial, and protracted combat will be their undoing.

I must say, I am keen to collect this army. I was a Dark Elf fan in WHFB, but never actually made the jump from my empire army to collecting delfs. This time round I'm starting up 40k, and I've been considering a number of armies (non-Imperium, my gaming scene is awash with imperium players). I was sorely tempted to get Tyranids, until i realised they lack models for certain important units - and modding ones of my own I am not good at. So I think DE will be a great option - yes I know they have a steep learning curve, but I'm going to be playing for a number of reasons, not just for the win, but for look and feel, and a challenge too. I will be clooectign slowly so wave 1/5/2 or wahtever will be done by the time I reach my desired army level.

A question then, for the more seasoned players. The Talos: the only 'tough' unit in the list I can see, and yet its movement/deployment options are less than desirable? Used to be able to use the WWP to pull them into assault range in 4th edition, but now that seems impossible with new WWP rules. Therefore, are they to be used? (I know its tough without said rule book) but on a theoretical level, a smaler moving unit of anything, in an army of speed = counterproductive?

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Regarding the Talos,

At least currently the Talos can use the WWP; it's not a vehicle and I've heard nobody state any other units were prohibited from using it. The Talos is nice and with it's new options it will be a unit to draw lots of fire. It is slow but unless it has changed, it should still get the option to run. Me personally I'm still not sold on the WWP until I see the exact rules myself and can realistically understand what turn I will be able to bring troops onto the board from it. If it's possible to get it set up by turn 1 and have units use it by turn 2, it's definately viable. 12" deployment + 12" Raider move + 2" disembarking (a little fudging with the length of the raider by starting it sideways at deployment could get another 2") would well mean a WWP more than half-way across the board. A talos would then move 6" from the WWP, fire or run d6" and assault 6" if I've heard correctly. That's nearly the width of the board on turn 2.

Hello here,

I wanted to know if there was a model planned for the Succubus. Also, i heard the art piece for it was great, anyone has seen it?

The succubus is just the sargeant of the Wyches =]

Oshova

I think its actually an HQ choice

haroon wrote:I think its actually an HQ choice

It is now.

Rymafyr wrote:

iLLiTHiD wrote:I supose we can only guess at the scant pieces of information being leaked - but the fundamentals of DE will stay the same. A fast moving, high skilled and weakly armoured/toughness army. Deployment and movement phases will be crucial, and protracted combat will be their undoing.

I must say, I am keen to collect this army. I was a Dark Elf fan in WHFB, but never actually made the jump from my empire army to collecting delfs. This time round I'm starting up 40k, and I've been considering a number of armies (non-Imperium, my gaming scene is awash with imperium players). I was sorely tempted to get Tyranids, until i realised they lack models for certain important units - and modding ones of my own I am not good at. So I think DE will be a great option - yes I know they have a steep learning curve, but I'm going to be playing for a number of reasons, not just for the win, but for look and feel, and a challenge too. I will be clooectign slowly so wave 1/5/2 or wahtever will be done by the time I reach my desired army level.

A question then, for the more seasoned players. The Talos: the only 'tough' unit in the list I can see, and yet its movement/deployment options are less than desirable? Used to be able to use the WWP to pull them into assault range in 4th edition, but now that seems impossible with new WWP rules. Therefore, are they to be used? (I know its tough without said rule book) but on a theoretical level, a smaler moving unit of anything, in an army of speed = counterproductive?

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Regarding the Talos,

At least currently the Talos can use the WWP; it's not a vehicle and I've heard nobody state any other units were prohibited from using it. The Talos is nice and with it's new options it will be a unit to draw lots of fire. It is slow but unless it has changed, it should still get the option to run. Me personally I'm still not sold on the WWP until I see the exact rules myself and can realistically understand what turn I will be able to bring troops onto the board from it. If it's possible to get it set up by turn 1 and have units use it by turn 2, it's definately viable. 12" deployment + 12" Raider move + 2" disembarking (a little fudging with the length of the raider by starting it sideways at deployment could get another 2") would well mean a WWP more than half-way across the board. A talos would then move 6" from the WWP, fire or run d6" and assault 6" if I've heard correctly. That's nearly the width of the board on turn 2.

You've got it right Rymafyr, that is exactly how the WWP works. It's dropped in the shooting phase, then on your next turn it counts as a board edge. there is nothing stopping the Talos or Cronos from using it, and it would seem it is a great way to get them downfield quick! As for the Talos, I must say I'm jealous as (up until November) a Nid player, and it's better than just about all the Nid MC's and half the price. Actually a Talos could conceivably kill a whole squad of Carnifexes on it's own with just a couple of upgrades!! Also don't forget the WWP uses a 3" template. It is very possible to get within 6"-7" of your opponents table edge if the Talos (or anything else really) can assault on the 2nd turn!

midget_overlord wrote:GW WNT mentions that the second set of releases (mandrakes, hellions, ravager, Urien) and they refer to that as the second wave here;

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=13300004a

I was thining that was wave 1.5, but looks like I was wrong.

No, this is wave 1.5. (1st month, 3rd week). Otherwise you'd be talking about three waves (1, 1.5, 2) actually only being two waves (6th and 20th of November).

airmang wrote:You've got it right Rymafyr, that is exactly how the WWP works. It's dropped in the shooting phase, then on your next turn it counts as a board edge. there is nothing stopping the Talos or Cronos from using it, and it would seem it is a great way to get them downfield quick! As for the Talos, I must say I'm jealous as (up until November) a Nid player, and it's better than just about all the Nid MC's and half the price. Actually a Talos could conceivably kill a whole squad of Carnifexes on it's own with just a couple of upgrades!! Also don't forget the WWP uses a 3" template. It is very possible to get within 6"-7" of your opponents table edge if the Talos (or anything else really) can assault on the 2nd turn!

Well, that's good to know then. The previous edition, took til turn 3 for the WWP to be viable, I never understood why I had to wait an entire turn to use it and subsequently I just stopped using it at all to save the 50pts. Hopefully, it's less costly now as well.

Yes, it is a bit cheaper now.

AlexHolker wrote:

midget_overlord wrote:GW WNT mentions that the second set of releases (mandrakes, hellions, ravager, Urien) and they refer to that as the second wave here;
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=13300004a
I was thining that was wave 1.5, but looks like I was wrong.

No, this is wave 1.5. (1st month, 3rd week). Otherwise you'd be talking about three waves (1, 1.5, 2) actually only being two waves (6th and 20th of November).

This is a joke, right?
The releases of one month are always considered ONE wave by rumour posters, that's were the "first wave" number of 6 plastic kits, 3 metal boxes, 3 blisters and one specialty item comes from.
The half release is something minor coming, like the Skaven Warlord in October, so expect one or two blisters in a month dedicated to something else.
The second wave is the main release of another month. Both 1.5 and 2nd release will be next year.

Doesn't matter, if some GW website manager calls the second half of the November release a second wave just to confuse everyone.

Can anyone tell me know what the 1) claw weapon does and the 2) electo whip does?

1. are you talking about the Stun Claw that the Hellions sergeant can take? If so this is the piece of wargear that allows him to pull an IC out with them when they hit and run.

2. Electrocorrosive whip halves the strength of whatever suffers an unsaved wound by it.

airmang wrote:Electrocorrosive whip halves the strength of whatever is wounded by it.

Rounding up or down?
Is it permanent, if not how long it lasts?
Can it be used with poisoned attacks?
Can you say monster nerfer?

airmang wrote:2. Electrocorrosive whip halves the strength of whatever suffers an unsaved wound by it.

Sounds like the kind of thing my regular Nid opponent is going to hate with a passion. Him and his two Trygons, Tyrant, and Tervigon.

Dang, there is still a line in the 94 page Codex that we forgot to copy! Blast!

1. i believe it's rounding up. (Someone should be able to confirm this)
2. I do believe it is permanent. (Again someone should be able to confirm this)
3. It's a special weapon you have to buy for the model, so they won't be able to combine it with another special weapon, so no poison.
4. Yeah, as they will then become S3-4.

Does it stack?

For example, can you repeatedly wound the enemy model with the weapon (say, a MC with six wounds) until the unit is S1?

I would absolutely love to see a bunch of S1 Trygons running around, rolling two sixes for armor pen and still not even glancing that Land Raider.

Well if you round down, you could kill it before it loses all 6 wounds. As when any stat reaches 0 the model is removed from play . . . Or so I'm led to believe by the complexities of my brain =p

Oshova

Oshova wrote:Well if you round down, you could kill it before it loses all 6 wounds. As when any stat reaches 0 the model is removed from play . . . Or so I'm led to believe by the complexities of my brain =p

I know thats a rule in fantasy, does it exist in 40k too, i'm not sure.

SaintHazard wrote:Does it stack?

For example, can you repeatedly wound the enemy model with the weapon (say, a MC with six wounds) until the unit is S1?

I would absolutely love to see a bunch of S1 Trygons running around, rolling two sixes for armor pen and still not even glancing that Land Raider.

"Models that suffer one or more unsaved wounds from an electrocorrosive whip halve their Strength (rounding fractions up) for the remainder of that close combat round."

Oh, also, it's a power weapon, but only operates on the user's S.

Ah, that's better! I was afraid I had mis-remembered it some.

Saldiven wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:Does it stack?

For example, can you repeatedly wound the enemy model with the weapon (say, a MC with six wounds) until the unit is S1?

I would absolutely love to see a bunch of S1 Trygons running around, rolling two sixes for armor pen and still not even glancing that Land Raider.

"Models that suffer one or more unsaved wounds from an electrocorrosive whip halve their Strength (rounding fractions up) for the remainder of that close combat round."

Oh, also, it's a power weapon, but only operates on the user's S.

Remember the cost and who can take them?

If you want to know every single detail in the 94 page Codex, why not buy it?
It is not the duty of this forum to provide a full copy of every existing Codex, esp. not every single point cost and stat.

Kroothawk wrote:If you want to know every single detail about the 94 page Codex, why not buy it?
It is not the duty of this forum to provide a full copy of every existing Codex.

I already have bought it. For someone who likes to post details about every single new thing coming out before anyone else knows about it, I'd think you wouldn't mind questions about a codex that a good number of people don't have access to yet.

But, since me asking about the cost of the whips completely tells the story of the entire codex in a few words, maybe it wasn't worth the money.

Kroothawk wrote:If you want to know every single detail about the 94 page Codex, why not buy it?
It is not the duty of this forum to provide a full copy of every existing Codex.

We will, KH. We're just curious in advance. Not a crime. November just isn't getting here fast enough.

Kroothawk wrote:
esp. not every single point cost and stat.

Hyperbole much?

Give me a break. Get off your moral high horse. Warning people in the forum not to post pics of models because Jes might get mad (which he didn't, according to reports), making sure that everyone knows that you posted information first before it comes up again as the self-proclaimed herald of Dakka and then getting offended somehow at asking for a point value? Make up your mind.

Asking for point costs is asking for GW IP breach that is not tolerated for obvious reasons on this forum.
After dozens of posts asking for IP breach, it gets a bit annoying.

And please stop trolling with obviously false information.
You know quite well that I at best reposted pics from other forums.

Kroothawk wrote:Asking for point costs is asking for GW IP breach that is not tolerated for obvious reasons on this forum.
After dozens of posts asking for IP breach, it gets a bit annoying.

Then don't post them in your own news threads:

Kroothawk wrote:Warriors (also in an elite version, upgrade names: Kabalite warrior, Synabite, Kabalite Trueborn, Dracon)
Stats as before. 9 points. Splinter Rifle rapid fire, no plasma grenades or Splinter pistols.

I already have bought it. For someone who likes to post details about every single new thing coming out before anyone else knows about it, I'd think you wouldn't mind questions about a codex that a good number of people don't have access to yet.

But, since me asking about the cost of the whips completely tells the story of the entire codex in a few words, maybe it wasn't worth the money.

I concur but can we be civil? - I know we all want our DE Codices NOW and that november isn't coming quick enough)

I thought that there was another claw/lacerator/glove type weapon that characters could have.

The whip sounds a bit naff to be honest - an agoniser would probably be better in most cases no?

Please keep the discussion cool-headed. This thread is doing well considering its pedigree. Please stay on-track and polite.

I do appreciate kroothawks work early on but it does seem as though he is in fact the one trolling the forum when it comes to knit picking point requests.... Kroothawk you HAVE in fact posted point costs previously and it does seem a bit ridiculous to me to judge other peoples curiosity, especially when there is no harm in simply asking....

I also remember you getting angry at another member for re-posting and consolidating rumored stats without accrediting you, which correct me if I'm wrong but you in fact are not Phil Kelly and did not write the codex, and also are re-posting hearsay rumors you had to gather from other sources yourself... so i will in fact second that you should not judge others so quickly, seeing as your sheets are not clean either....

I concur.

So much for the spit on the face after doing everyone here a favor.

Kroothawk wrote:Asking for point costs is asking for GW IP breach that is not tolerated for obvious reasons on this forum.
After dozens of posts asking for IP breach, it gets a bit annoying.

And please stop trolling with obviously false information.
You know quite well that I at best reposted pics from other forums.

Thank you for all of the information that you always provide, but please stop. Also, please leave the moderation to the moderators. If you feel someone has violated forum rules then simply inform the moderators about it, there's no reason to engage in bickering here.

Whip is 20 pts
Can be taken by:

Archon
Succubus
Haemonculus
Wracks

My goodness, the longer I look at this book, the harder I find it to believe that Dark Eldar can deal with a mech force.

How do they get enough anti-tank? Even 3 Ravagers can be taken down pretty easily.

And are Blasters Lance or no? I somehow missed that along the way... That might mitigate it somewhat, but even then, it's slim on the ground to get enough rhino/chimera/wave serpent-popping weapons. Nevermind the Landraiders and other AV13-14 goodies.

And I believe a lot of the codex previews list the Archon as able to wield a Blaster, but I think it's only a Blaster pistol. Not the rifle.

Any newer takes on the army lists we'll be seeing for Dark Eldar?

Scottywan82 wrote:My goodness, the longer I look at this book, the harder I find it to believe that Dark Eldar can deal with a mech force.

How do they get enough anti-tank? Even 3 Ravagers can be taken down pretty easily.

And are Blasters Lance or no? I somehow missed that along the way... That might mitigate it somewhat, but even then, it's slim on the ground to get enough rhino/chimera/wave serpent-popping weapons. Nevermind the Landraiders and other AV13-14 goodies.

And I believe a lot of the codex previews list the Archon as able to wield a Blaster, but I think it's only a Blaster pistol. Not the rifle.

Any newer takes on the army lists we'll be seeing for Dark Eldar?

Both Blaster and Blast Pistol have lance rule yes
Archon can buy Blaster or Blast Pistol

DE's dominant anti Tank should be VoidRaven Bombers, they seem rather powerful

LunaHound wrote:Whip is 20 pts
Can be taken by:

Archon
Succubus
Haemonculus
Wracks

Thank you Luna.

Nice Anti Tank weapons DE can use ( effectiveness varies i guess but atleast they seem to be anti tank role )
And i gave them stars * to how i rate their effectiveness xD

Heavy Support:
VoidRaven with 2 Void Lance and Void Mine ****
Talos Pain Engine **** ( tough and monstrous )
Ravager w/ Dark Lance x 3 ***

Dedicated Transport:
Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance *

Fast Attack:
Scourge : Dark Lance or Blaster on Jump Infantry. Good survivability but too expensive for the squad ***

Troops:
Wyches: Haywire Grenades. ( not sure how effective they are , luck involved to do damage not to mention need to get close to enemy vehicles ) *
Kabalite Warriors : 10 Warriors per Dark Lance baby sitting >.< *


Elite:
Kabalite Trueborn: (IMHO the dedicated Anti Tank infantry of Dark Eldars , exactly like how players field Melta Veteran of IG ) *****
Squad of 3-10 , Up to FOUR Blasters , Up to 2 Dark Lance , 1x Dracon with upgradeable Blaster Pistol , They certainly are cheap to field as well and share same model as Kabalite warriors

Harlequins: 2x Fusion Pistols ( guess its something :x ) **

HQ:
Archon w/ Blaster , Blast Pistol *

Don't forget Haywire launchers on the Scourges and Haywire grenades that got super cheap on wyches.

Hulksmash wrote:Don't forget Haywire launchers on the Scourges and Haywire grenades that got super cheap on wyches.

Ah thank you ^^ i missed them , from the models i never pictured them as anti tank units , but they certainly could be!

Isn't Archon bs7? That means he only misses on a 1 with another reroll fail? Seems darn good for opening up low av transports and assaulting the dudes that bail out.

If you pop the transport I don't think you can assault the contents since it's a different unit.

Hulksmash wrote:Don't forget Haywire launchers on the Scourges and Haywire grenades that got super cheap on wyches.

That launcher is still a weapon that must be bought like a Dark Lance or Blaster. So you can have 4 per 10. While they would be a reliable glance, to say the least, it would depend on how much they cost, I would imagine to surmise their usefulness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

asimo77 wrote:If you pop the transport I don't think you can assault the contents since it's a different unit.

There's a specific caveat that allows the unit that destroyed the transport to assault the gooey filling that pours out.

asimo77 wrote:If you pop the transport I don't think you can assault the contents since it's a different unit.

Page 67, EFFECTS OF DAMAGE RESULTS ON PASSENGERS, the Note at the end.

asimo77 wrote:If you pop the transport I don't think you can assault the contents since it's a different unit.

There's a specific exception in the rulebook for this exact case.

asimo77 wrote:If you pop the transport I don't think you can assault the contents since it's a different unit.

You can assault any unit if you destroyed the unit that you were shooting at in the shooting phase, assuming you have assault weapons of course, most of the time this scenario happens because you shot up someone's Landraider or Rhino.

Anyone have any info on Urien Rakarth? like wargear or rules (besides the adds D3 pain tokens, Wracks as troops and regens 1 wound a turn)? Does he have an Invul save at all? Does he have a special weapon?

Gotta love Phil Kelly's unhidden hatered of the Nids.

"Nids get Regen that works only 1/6 of the time? Lets give Delfdars one that works always!"

"Nids no longer immune to Instant Death? Lots of T6? Lets make everything cause it regardless of Toughness!"

"Nids have lots of T6 models that are normally wounded on a 6 by troopers? POISON FOR EVERYONE!"

Ah I got that mixed up with having a squad blow up a vehicle with its shooting then use the rest of the shots against the guys inside.

Sigmatron wrote:Anyone have any info on Urien Rakarth? like wargear or rules (besides the adds D3 pain tokens, Wracks as troops and regens 1 wound a turn)? Does he have an Invul save at all? Does he have a special weapon?

Casket of Flensing , Gnarlskin , Clone Field

Gwar! wrote:Gotta love Phil Kelly's unhidden hatered of the Nids.

"Nids get Regen that works only 1/6 of the time? Lets give Delfdars one that works always!"

"Nids no longer immune to Instant Death? Lots of T6? Lets make everything cause it regardless of Toughness!"

"Nids have lots of T6 models that are normally wounded on a 6 by troopers? POISON FOR EVERYONE!"

"Nids have lots of MC models with no Inv saves? Inv's in almost every slot!"

LunaHound wrote:Nice Anti Tank weapons DE can use ( effectiveness varies i guess but atleast they seem to be anti tank role )
And i gave them stars * to how i rate their effectiveness xD

Heavy Support:
VoidRaven with 2 Void Lance and Void Mine ****
Talos Pain Engine **** ( tough and monstrous )
Ravager w/ Dark Lance x 3 ***

Dedicated Transport:
Raider w/ 1 Dark Lance *

Fast Attack:
Scourge : Dark Lance or Blaster on Jump Infantry. Good survivability but too expensive for the squad ***

Troops:
Wyches: Haywire Grenades. ( not sure how effective they are , luck involved to do damage not to mention need to get close to enemy vehicles ) *
Kabalite Warriors : 10 Warriors per Dark Lance baby sitting >.< *


Elite:
Kabalite Trueborn: (IMHO the dedicated Anti Tank infantry of Dark Eldars , exactly like how players field Melta Veteran of IG ) *****
Squad of 3-10 , Up to FOUR Blasters , Up to 2 Dark Lance , 1x Dracon with upgradeable Blaster Pistol , They certainly are cheap to field as well and share same model as Kabalite warriors

Harlequins: 2x Fusion Pistols ( guess its something :x ) **

HQ:
Archon w/ Blaster , Blast Pistol *

Thanks Luna! I definitely think Wyches are becoming a more likely troops choice for me. And if the Hellion-Lord is as decent as he looks, it might be Wyches and Hellions, with all my Warriors being Trueborn.

Makes me feel a lot better though.

Well, from what I've read on dakka this is a good thing. As I'm led to believe that the previous rules for DE basically encouraged a whole lot of dark lance spamming and not much else.

If these posts are anything to go by, at least now there is abit more variation for armies to use. I am most intrigued by what this 'Voidraven Bomber' looks like. Is that one of the models due to be released in the 2nd wave?

Gwar! wrote:Gotta love Phil Kelly's unhidden hatered of the Nids.

"Nids get Regen that works only 1/6 of the time? Lets give Delfdars one that works always!"

"Nids no longer immune to Instant Death? Lots of T6? Lets make everything cause it regardless of Toughness!"

"Nids have lots of T6 models that are normally wounded on a 6 by troopers? POISON FOR EVERYONE!"

Wasn´t he a Nid player and a bugs fanboy or at least that´s how he was posing in WD battle reports some years ago?


What a sell out!

Wiglaf wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Gotta love Phil Kelly's unhidden hatered of the Nids.

"Nids get Regen that works only 1/6 of the time? Lets give Delfdars one that works always!"

"Nids no longer immune to Instant Death? Lots of T6? Lets make everything cause it regardless of Toughness!"

"Nids have lots of T6 models that are normally wounded on a 6 by troopers? POISON FOR EVERYONE!"

Wasn´t he a Nid player and a bugs fanboy or at least that´s how he was posing in WD battle reports some years ago?


What a sell out!

@Gwar: Very true. I'll be trading my Nid's for some DE at this rate...

@Wiglaf: He used to be a bugs fanboy and he wanted to write the new 5th Ed codex. It seems like he has gone in a huff with Tyranids because he didn't get to write the new codex, and has now gone out of his way to design an army which can eliminate 'Nids by default.

Gathering Storm wrote:@Gwar: Very true. I'll be trading my Nid's for some DE at this rate...

@Wiglaf: He used to be a bugs fanboy and he wanted to write the new 5th Ed codex. It seems like he has gone in a huff with Tyranids because he didn't get to write the new codex, and has now gone out of his way to design an army which can eliminate 'Nids by default.

He also made JotWW and gave almost everything in the SW codex Eternal Warrior.

Gwar! wrote:

Gathering Storm wrote:@Gwar: Very true. I'll be trading my Nid's for some DE at this rate...

@Wiglaf: He used to be a bugs fanboy and he wanted to write the new 5th Ed codex. It seems like he has gone in a huff with Tyranids because he didn't get to write the new codex, and has now gone out of his way to design an army which can eliminate 'Nids by default.

He also made JotWW and gave almost everything in the SW codex Eternal Warrior.

I had forgotten that Gwar!, but that was only Phil Kelly pre-empting the release of the army he now despised. (Tyranids: January 2010).

And yes, having almost everything EW basically makes Carnifexes, Hive Tyrants and the other nasty beasties obsolete against the pups.

LunaHound wrote:

Sigmatron wrote:Anyone have any info on Urien Rakarth? like wargear or rules (besides the adds D3 pain tokens, Wracks as troops and regens 1 wound a turn)? Does he have an Invul save at all? Does he have a special weapon?

Casket of Flensing , Gnarlskin , Clone Field

Remember what those do?

Wow... now I understand... the Tyranids don't suck... Phil Kelly just stacked every army up to work especially well against them!

LOL, that would explain alot with the SW and DE codex! Did Phil Kelly also write the Nid FAQ?

Sigmatron wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

Sigmatron wrote:Anyone have any info on Urien Rakarth? like wargear or rules (besides the adds D3 pain tokens, Wracks as troops and regens 1 wound a turn)? Does he have an Invul save at all? Does he have a special weapon?

Casket of Flensing , Gnarlskin , Clone Field

Remember what those do?

Casket of Flensing I believe is a 1 shot weapon, d6 str d6 attack 2d6 shots.
Gnarlskin is just the name for the rubbish save
Clonefield I think is where you roll a dice before the round of combat, thats how many attacks you can totally stop, choose which attacks go on the clones. I think its d3 since stopping d6 seems overpowered

He also has a slightly improved flesh gauntlet I think

DavidTJ is right. Clonefield is D3. His Flesh Gauntlet is 3+ instead of the normal 4+.

chaos0xomega wrote:Wow... now I understand... the Tyranids don't suck... Phil Kelly just stacked every army up to work especially well against them!

Lol, instead of pushing the boot on tyranids maybe dark eldar needed a gain plus dark eldar weapons shoot poison so why not make them poison?.

Sick stuff. The casket is S"D6", and AP"D6" / Assault "2D6"?

Is the D6 for strength also the D6 for AP, lol? That wuld be hilarious.

S2, AP 2

S6, AP 6.

Scottywan82 wrote:Sick stuff. The casket is S"D6", and AP"D6" / Assault "2D6"?

Is the D6 for strength also the D6 for AP, lol? That wuld be hilarious.

S2, AP 2

S6, AP 6.

That would be absolutely hilarious. Oh look, my weapon is AP2! Prepare to die, Terminators! Now, I need sixes to wound...

Fleshgauntlet... is that like the old scissors hands? Can an archite take it and what does it do?

Eyclonus wrote:

asimo77 wrote:If you pop the transport I don't think you can assault the contents since it's a different unit.

You can assault any unit if you destroyed the unit that you were shooting at in the shooting phase, assuming you have assault weapons of course, most of the time this scenario happens because you shot up someone's Landraider or Rhino.

I know you can assault the unit that came out of a trasport but where can you assault another unit if you destroyed a unit in the shooting phase (other than their transport?)

The Scissorhand is still in as a different piece of wargear. The Flesh Gauntlet is describe as more of a glove with needles and vials in it, to inject nasty-ness into their victim. It looks like one of Urien's right hand has one on. It instant kills a model that takes an unsaved would from it. They normally wound on a 4+.

I don't think Eyclonus meant that you could assault ANY unit if you destroy the unit you were shooting at. But I think he meant that you could assault any unit if you destroyed their vehicle (unit).

At least most of you have been able to look at the codex. I just got back from my FLGS and was todl that it will be another week or two before they get the black box of DE.

It was explained to me that it is not their fault, its because they are on a lower tier in regards to GW and they do not get stuff as fast as higher volume stores. While I can understand this, if its another 2 weeks before it comes in thats 3 WEEKS after it others have been able to look at it.
I'm for supporting my local store but this is ridiculous.

So in reviewing what I've seen here, are DE going to have as much trouble with mech as they used to?

Trouble with mech? Really? The dark lance army?

Actually DE would seem to have a pretty easy time against mech. Besides the Dark Lance, there are quite a few new "toys" to help them against mech(ie., Heat Lances, Haywire blasters, blasters, and void lances just to name a few). It's just have to use them effectively, before they get blown out of the sky.

Dark Lances are highly over-rated on taking out mass armor. Sure, if someone shows up with 3 landraiders and I have 20 Dark Lances the DE will be in good shape. But if someone drops 6-9 land speeders and 3-5 razorbacks the DE are toast. That's why I'm asking if they have gained anything that might help - maybe medium str multiple shot weapons.

DE versus Mech have:

Dark Lances nearly everywhere
Blasters on warriors, reavers, scourges, archons, etc.
Blast pistol upgrades for squad leaders, HQ
Heat Lances for scourges, trueborn, reavers, Talos
Haywire Grenade Launchers for scourges, Talos
Haywire Grenade upgrades on wyches and other squads
Shredders on warriors, trueborn
Void Lances (S9 lance) on Voidravens
Fusion guns on Harlequins
Talos S7 monstrous creature
Miscellaneous other avenues such as high strength special characters, Grotesques (S5 or S6)

Frankly, we have PLENTY of options for armor and, further, the codex is designed so that you can easily have multipurpose units that can do everything.

Pity the FW Raven fighter really doesn't look so hot, and certainly doesn't match with the new line.

Yeah, we're already seeing list (less than 2000 pts) with 30+ Dark Lance like weapons (Blaster and Void Lances), most on very mobile platforms, that mech really shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I think the main thing to point out is that the distribution of those weapons have shifted around, placing a greater emphasis on non-troop units.

If I got my numbers right, can have a trueborn unit with 4x blaster, 2x dark lance in a raider w/ flicker and nightshield for 262 points.

that's 3 dark lances and 4 blasters, essentially 7 dark lances at 18"
so, if you wanted to, that's 21 "dark lances" at 18" for 786 points, or 37 points per gun.

airmang wrote:Yeah, we're already seeing list (less than 2000 pts) with 30+ Dark Lance like weapons (Blaster and Void Lances), most on very mobile platforms, that mech really shouldn't be too much of a problem.

30+ lances? where are you getting this from?.

Yea it's more like 20+.

you can get 21 lances from just 3 Trueborn squads described in greenbay924's post. And that's less than 800 points.

you can also add another 9 from ravagers for just a bit over 300 (unupgraded). then just sprinkle some more in troops (looking at 3 per squad + 1 per raider). Heck even add an Archon or 2 with a blaster. Heck if you wanted, you could probably get 30+ in 1500!

Apparently, we can expect a Battleforce before long. What's in it, I dunno. But it is en-route.

Right, next you'll be telling us that FW are releasing some kind of Tomb Stalker!
Fool us once shame on the fool that twice fools, fool...fool.

Take those 3 trueborn squads, add 3 ravagers w/ flickerfields and nightshields at 125 points each, and for 1161 points you can get 30 "dark lances"

And if you really wanted to get crazy, take 3 units of 10 warriors with blaster and dark lance in a raider for 215 per unit, or another 645.

take two archons with blasters at 75 each, or another 150

so, that's under 2k (at 1956) and the total is:

Blasters x17
Dark lances x21

so 38 "dark lances" I highly doubt that would be a competitive build. Would just be really annoying to go against.

Actually you can pretty easily get closer to 50. I squeezed 42 in 1689. Granted 6 of them are blast pistols but still

Hulksmash wrote:Actually you can pretty easily get closer to 50. I squeezed 42 in 1689. Granted 6 of them are blast pistols but still

And here we were fearing Dark Lance Spam would be dead!

Oh it's not competitive Gwar. At least not from where I sit but you can do it

Gwar! wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:Actually you can pretty easily get closer to 50. I squeezed 42 in 1689. Granted 6 of them are blast pistols but still

And here we were fearing Dark Lance Spam would be dead!

It's just a set up to make lance-immune monoliths and their Necron masters the new kings of the metagame, once they get a new dex.

I'm just sad to see my lovely Dissintegrators reduced to a shadow of their former glory....

puma713 wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:Actually you can pretty easily get closer to 50. I squeezed 42 in 1689. Granted 6 of them are blast pistols but still

And here we were fearing Dark Lance Spam would be dead!

It's just a set up to make lance-immune monoliths and their Necron masters the new kings of the metagame, once they get a new dex.

Lets not forget Black Templar LRC spam!

Blessed Hull FTW!

I personally would like to see Monolith's Living Metal rule lose the freakyness like Lance and Melta immunities as it just hoses some armies while leaving others untouched, and replace it with a standard 4++ save, if for no other reason than to hear Gwar! constantly complain it doesn't actually do anything.

Aduro wrote:I personally would like to see Monolith's Living Metal rule lose the freakyness like Lance and Melta immunities as it just hoses some armies while leaving others untouched, and replace it with a standard 4++ save, if for no other reason than to hear Gwar! constantly complain it doesn't actually do anything.

I see what you did there.

But yeah, I seriously see Living Metal turning into a 4++ save (with perhaps a 3++ if its melta or lance?) rather than the silliness it is now.

gardeth wrote:I'm just sad to see my lovely Dissintegrators reduced to a shadow of their former glory....

Can you elaborate on this? I've played against DE maybe once in a blue moon in all of the times I've played 40K. What were they and why have they been so reduced?

puma713 wrote:

gardeth wrote:I'm just sad to see my lovely Dissintegrators reduced to a shadow of their former glory....

Can you elaborate on this? I've played against DE maybe once in a blue moon in all of the times I've played 40K. What were they and why have they been so reduced?

They used to be Plasma Cannons.

Gwar! wrote:

puma713 wrote:

gardeth wrote:I'm just sad to see my lovely Dissintegrators reduced to a shadow of their former glory....

Can you elaborate on this? I've played against DE maybe once in a blue moon in all of the times I've played 40K. What were they and why have they been so reduced?

They used to be Plasma Cannons.

whatever. They're still pretty damn hot.

What are they now? I have not got to look at the codex yet.

syanticraven wrote:What are they now? I have not got to look at the codex yet.

Str 5, AP 2, Heavy 3. 36"

i.e. Nerfed to bits. Take DL instead.

Scottywan82 wrote:

syanticraven wrote:What are they now? I have not got to look at the codex yet.

Str 5, AP 2, Heavy 3. 36"

But...but that is such a nerf ;-; why did they do this too my baby?! Why? (I actually ne ver used them anyway lol I used DLs)
Did they give a gun a similar function as its old sustained mode? Or Does the dis-integrator do a good enough?

gardeth wrote:I'm just sad to see my lovely Dissintegrators reduced to a shadow of their former glory....

Same, i have 9 of the things, or should i say had


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Str 5, AP 2, Heavy 3. 36"

Gwar! wrote:i.e. Nerfed to bits. Take DL instead.

i.e DE gained a crappy 4th ed star cannon that i can't spam on everything to justify using them.

Farmer wrote:

gardeth wrote:I'm just sad to see my lovely Dissintegrators reduced to a shadow of their former glory....

Same, i have 9 of the things, or should i say had


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Str 5, AP 2, Heavy 3. 36"

Gwar! wrote:i.e. Nerfed to bits. Take DL instead.

i.e DE gained a crappy 4th ed star cannon that i can't spam on everything to justify using them.

Yea my friend laughed his ass off when I told him about Dissies, I guess this is karma for making fun of his star cannons.

Am I missing something here? What's so bad about 3 S5 AP2 shots?

asimo77 wrote:Am I missing something here? What's so bad about 3 S5 AP2 shots?

Compared to a S7 AP2 Blast, quite a bit.

The old Dissies were able to not only decimate hoards, but rip apart TMC and even crack light transports.

The new ones are pointless and are a classic example of GW nerfing a current power model to try and sell the same models to their customers again (i.e. everyone already had 3 Ravagers with Dissies, now they want to make people buy 3 more with DL instead). Another great example is the Carnifex. Everyone had 6, so they nerf them to make them have to buy Trygons.

Not really, personal choice maybe. Again, this is like the 'sustained' fire from the old disintegrators except for better str better AP and better range.

Old: S4 AP3 24" 3 Hvy
New: S5 AP2 36" 3 Hvy

So you lost a blast template...And if I heard properly, there's no charge for taking a disintegrator instead of a DL now.

I don't think it's that big of a deal, sure losing a plasma cannon is never fun, but S5 AP2 3 shots aren't bad by any means. Besides they have a unique weapon, plasma cannons can be found in plenty of IoM armies.

I think the new deldar have enough good stuff going for them to make up for this, just my opinion here.

Gwar! wrote:
The new ones are pointless and are a classic example of GW nerfing a current power model to try and sell the same models to their customers again (i.e. everyone already had 3 Ravagers with Dissies, now they want to make people buy 3 more with DL instead). Another great example is the Carnifex. Everyone had 6, so they nerf them to make them have to buy Trygons.

Good point, Gwar i think you might be onto GW.

To be fair, they do it with all the codexes now sadly.

SW were a great example also. Absolutely NOONE! Took Long Fangs... EVER. So, what do they do? They make them so good that even I start any SW list with 15+3 Missile Fangs.

And Blood Claws. Very Few People took more than the One Compulsory GH squad because they could get 3 Half Price (compared to the Modern Marines) Power Fists on a Cheaper body in an 11 man Squad with 4 attacks each (in 3rd and 4th anyway, 3 attacks each in 5th) and have a 4th Power Fist with a WGBL. Funny that, just enough to squeeze into a SM Pod or Land Raider (which have the 12 Capacity). New codex comes and they nerf you to bits, making you have to buy Grey Hunters (they shot themselves in the foot a bit, since you can use BC models as GH because of the Ubergrit).

'I think I'm paranoid' sang Shirley Manson...rings a bell right now.

GW change things in a Codex to shake things up. SHOCK! HORROR! Otherwise, erm...what would be the point in releasing anything new?

Plus, Long Fangs don't do anything today they couldn't do in 2nd Edition. Just saying. Well, apart from that trick with Logan and a Drop Pod of course.

Mr Mystery wrote:
GW change things in a Codex to shake things up. SHOCK! HORROR! Otherwise, erm...what would be the point in releasing anything new?

It is actually tragic, i'm just getting over the shock right now.

Gwar! wrote:

puma713 wrote:

gardeth wrote:I'm just sad to see my lovely Dissintegrators reduced to a shadow of their former glory....

Can you elaborate on this? I've played against DE maybe once in a blue moon in all of the times I've played 40K. What were they and why have they been so reduced?

They used to be Plasma Cannons.

Sort of. They used to have 2 different firing modes. You could either shoot 3 times at S4, AP3, or once at S7, AP2 and you get a blast template. I made fantastic use out of both modes of fire. It was stylish and there was no good reason to change it.

Is there anyone out there that is okay with the new mandrakes btw? They aren't as awesome as we may have hoped but I feel like they have plenty of potential if used correctly.

Another great example is the Carnifex. Everyone had 6, so they nerf them to make them have to buy Trygons.

Carnifex got slightly less indestructible because it can be run in squads of 3 now for a single heavy support choice. Besides, the upgraded W and T Carnifex in the last book was over-the-top to play against. The glass is half empty to some, half full to others.

I have a couple of simple questions with regard to the Talos; has it been basically established that:

A) It looks to be a must-have unit, in terms of being pretty awesome on the tabletop, stats-wise/points-wise, and its utility/what damage it can do?

-and-

B) There are no plans for a model to be released in the near future? (like the Stormraven, which won't be produced til GK get their codex as far as I heard)

I ask because I am planning to start up a DE army with these new models, and want others' opinions as to whether or not I should put some time and energy into converting a Talos (I love to do conversions and hate the old model) Any thoughts on this greatly appreciated!

-C6

PS-I think I saw a pic of the art from the new book of the Talos - was that on this thread, or elsewhere?

Rulewise they don't pop out for me as being particulary neat, but I'll get them anyway. I like the fluff and the models, and if they're relatively cheap pointwise it won't be such a bad tactical move...I hope.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I meant in reference to mandrakes btw

Talos has a pic in the book. Voidraven bomber is top secret with no pic just like the Stormraven. That keeps third parties from spinning something up that will actually look like what GW has planned. When GW finally releases theirs, everyone will likely drool and buy it whether or not they converted one or bought something completely different looking from a third party. Good marketing strategy.

catharsix wrote:

PS-I think I saw a pic of the art from the new book of the Talos - was that on this thread, or elsewhere?

It was posted by Kroothawk somewhere in one of these threads. It looks like a giant spikey scorpion-wraithlord type thing. Looks pretty cool, I think.

What no one actually knows is that GW is the 5th Chaos God and they feed on the emotions of angst against GW's many actually annoying policies which is expressed by complaining about the conspiracy thoery that GW even knows what is good to play with in 40k and then nerfing it to sell more stuff. Luckily for this fledgling god people love to complain(and rightly so, GW has been screwing them for 2 decades now) about just about anything and have the correct amount of angst to wrack up epic post counts.


One clear example of nerfing was when transports got boned in 4th because they were too good in 3rd and so people had to mount all of their models on horses instead... wait a minute... I think they just nerf things they think are too good and in a heavy and off handed fashion. But this is too much thinking for me so I will now accuse GW of conspiracy.

If Disintegrators were S6 or Heavy 4, I would be all over them, but for now, they're just sorta meh. They do, at least, negate FNP, but at S5, they just don't do enough against Marines, MCs, the sort of thing that I would want to target with them. Every other army I can gun down with Splinter Cannons, so the Dissies really lack a purpose that can't be accomplished elsewhere.

Well for MC's you could just used poisoned weaponry, and at least with S5 MEQ's will be wounded on 3+.

Of course I'm trying to be optimistic here

D.P. Gumby wrote:Is there anyone out there that is okay with the new mandrakes btw? They aren't as awesome as we may have hoped but I feel like they have plenty of potential if used correctly.

I love the new mandrakes, people don't like them because they are not overpowered i guess (every thing has to have power weapons i guess or it sucks). The thing people forget is the object of the game is not to destroy all of your opponents units, its to accomplish objectives. Which is why mandrakes are great with their infiltrate and 5++ save, and their weapon causes pinning! I will use them in my competitive list.

BrassScorpion wrote:Talos has a pic in the book. Voidraven bomber is top secret with no pic just like the Stormraven. That keeps third parties from spinning something up that will actually look like what GW has planned. When GW finally releases theirs, everyone will likely drool and buy it whether or not they converted one or bought something completely different looking from a third party. Good marketing strategy.

Or, maybe, just maybe, as they haven't designed the model at that stage, they don't want to trap themselves into a corner where they end up releasing a model that looks nothing like the concept art, which would no doubt lead to just as much complaining on the internet. And anyway, what third party companies are designing models that are intended to be subsitutes for GW's larger vehicles? Obviously you have companies like Gamezone releasing Mournful (Blood) Knights and those Seeker type models and Chapterhouse with some conversion kits, but no one is out there making things that are deliberately meant to substitute Rhinos or "Thundercrow Dropships".

Also, on the subject of conspiracy theories.. People spend years after a codex is released complaining and moaning that a suitable unit is overpowered and that no other options are viable because it's so much better than the rest of the codex due to GW's incompetence in game design, then as soon as GW release an update that brings it back in line, they are accused of trying to sell models by nerfing the "mandatory" choices. It's another case of GW not being able to win either way and people who have been brought up to see conspiracy and plots everywhere reading too much into things.

I liked the older ones better...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I liked the older ones better...

I think I'd be more into them if they either had more unique infiltrate rules like before or if their ranged attack got even stronger as they got tokens rather than getting FC, fearless, and FNP. Btw do they have Power through Pain?

Yes, as well as fleet, and stealth.

I do see Gwars point though - its a win/win for GW - they create 'diversity' in armylists and at the same time sell the minis 'no one' uses. That's generally why its better to just make a list using units you like irregardless of how 'broken' they are as every dog will have its day.

I'm just pondering how I make a voidraven bomber...

Phototoxin wrote:I do see Gwars point though - its a win/win for GW - they create 'diversity' in armylists and at the same time sell the minis 'no one' uses. That's generally why its better to just make a list using units you like irregardless of how 'broken' they are as every dog will have its day.

The other thing to remember is that the majority of gamers are more casual/less tournament orientated and do just buy models based on what they like the look of. Ten year old boys who go in with their parents to the store haven't spent a few hours researching Dakka and Warseer's tactics threads to plan their purchases in advance.

I'm just pondering how I make a voidraven bomber...

I'd probably start by aiming for something that was a bit like Forgeworld's Void Dragon, but applying the lines and design of the new jetbikes to the hull and wings. Maybe..

Another question - the WWP that blocks TLOS - what do we use to model it? I was thinking of a large flying base (so the centre is easily identifiable for measuring and putting some sort of foci/energy points along the circumference.

@ Gwar Know one you know used long fang I have 3 squads of them in different configs anti tank anti horde and anti marine and the other local players also used them.
I am looking forward to pasting my local de players there is one but I know there will me more when I get back to the store.

xowainx wrote:I'd probably start by aiming for something that was a bit like Forgeworld's Void Dragon, but applying the lines and design of the new jetbikes to the hull and wings. Maybe..

This was my thought exactly.

Phototoxin wrote:Another question - the WWP that blocks TLOS - what do we use to model it? I was thinking of a large flying base (so the centre is easily identifiable for measuring and putting some sort of foci/energy points along the circumference.

In the older ruleset the marker for the portal was the small blast template, if that's what you mean. The new marker (a.k.a. repainted vortex grenade marker) has the same diameter. I hope that helps

I got a look at the dex in the local GW. Doesn't seem to be much options for a Wych Sucubus (HQ), it might be better to get an Archon and use them as an 'archite'.

The haemonculi have the most options out of all the HQs

Succubus does have a lot of options...as far as Wych are concerned.

I got a good look at the codex and I love it. I will join the crowd on its overkill, but it is ridiculous overkill. I will probably join the band wagon and start an army (it is my right after all for playing since '89). After reading this codex, I wonder if this is a taste of things to come? If follow on codexes will feature flyers, so many special rules and weaponry. I look forward to playing against them this weekend.

The releases of one month are always considered ONE wave by rumour posters, that's were the "first wave" number of 6 plastic kits, 3 metal boxes, 3 blisters and one specialty item comes from.

What will the 3rd metal box be?

Incubi, Mandrakes and Haemonculi (?)

TBD wrote:

The releases of one month are always considered ONE wave by rumour posters, that's were the "first wave" number of 6 plastic kits, 3 metal boxes, 3 blisters and one specialty item comes from.

What will the 3rd metal box be?

Incubi, Mandrakes and Haemonculi (?)

Aren't Mandrakes plastic?.

If the numbers I quoted are correct the plastics would be:

- Wyches
- Warriors
- Reavers
- Raider
- Ravager
- Hellions

So in that case the Mandrakes would have to be metal.

They don't look very metal

actually they might be.... (well going by the pretty accurate rumours, they have to be metal....)

The new Dark Eldar didn't come with a Battleforce??

Warboss Narznok wrote:The new Dark Eldar didn't come with a Battleforce??

Have you not been paying attention?

Sweet mother of God!

The boxed Sets are:

Plastic:

Warriors
Wyches
Raider
Ravager
Reavers
Hellions

Metal
Mandrakes
Incubi

Blisters
Urien
Lelith
Archon

That's all that's being released in Wave 1. Wave 1.5 and 2 will be next year.

SaintHazard wrote:

Warboss Narznok wrote:The new Dark Eldar didn't come with a Battleforce??

Have you not been paying attention?

You can't blame me for not spending my whole life talking about GW rumors. I got more inportant things to do.

Warboss Narznok wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:

Warboss Narznok wrote:The new Dark Eldar didn't come with a Battleforce??

Have you not been paying attention?

You can't blame me for not spending my whole life talking about GW rumors. I got more inportant things to do.

I most certainly can blame you.

Note that that's a different thing than you actually being at fault, though.

Anyway, a battleforce is apparently rumored, as of a few pages back.

Yes but no word of what's inside.

10 warriors, 10 wyches and a raider... maybe 5 hellions?

Would 1 metal box be the retinue or the warp beasts?

I hope Scourges, whenever they are released, are plastic. With all their gun options, might crazy if they weren't.

Scottywan82 wrote:

That's all that's being released in Wave 1. Wave 1.5 and 2 will be next year.

I just wish that they would come out with a Tyranid weapons sprue that contained a bonesword and a lash whip. They could call it a 'Wave' if they wanted to. C'mon Gee Dub.

Warboss Narznok wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:

Warboss Narznok wrote:The new Dark Eldar didn't come with a Battleforce??

Have you not been paying attention?

You can't blame me for not spending my whole life talking about GW rumors. I got more inportant things to do.

There is NOTHING more important than rumors about little plastic army men!

@above : LoL true!

The succubus doesn't seem that uber though - if you take a wych weapon she cannot have power weapon and she'll need it.. Agoniser and the razorflails would have been an epic combo.

On BOLS a dude's made the obvious 'lets have 13 blasters' list... with 2 special characters *facepalm*

Aduro wrote:

Warboss Narznok wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:

Warboss Narznok wrote:The new Dark Eldar didn't come with a Battleforce??

Have you not been paying attention?

You can't blame me for not spending my whole life talking about GW rumors. I got more inportant things to do.

There is NOTHING more important than rumors about little plastic army men!

2x

Had a look at the German Codex. The translation is a rushed job with many spelling and grammatical errors and sometimes so awkward that I decided to buy the English Codex just to understand the background texts (the translators failed to understand the complex and ornate descriptions and tried to translate each word literally, destroying the flow of words). Apart from that it is a phantastic and motivating book worth it for its new background information alone (e.g. definitely no Crone World Chaos Eldar anymore).

Thanks for the Update.

That's unfortunate to hear, for the German DE players.

chaos0xomega wrote:Wow... now I understand... the Tyranids don't suck... Phil Kelly just stacked every army up to work especially well against them!

Well, to be fair, nids aren't an auto lose army...they are just an uphill fighting army (an underdog so to speak) and they are certainly in a much better position than they were prior to the new codex.

Also, the meta game first shifted when 5th edition came out

First, it made vehicles, transports, and walkers extremely resilient against incoming fire with the new damage charts combined with providing vehicles with a cover save. Vehicles continued to benefit from taking only a 1/2 strength shot from a blast weapon when the hole was not centered on the hull, thus allowing them to capitalize on the new cover rules. Compare that to MC which lost having a guaranteed cover save in area terrain. Also, utilizing mobile screens for MC now exposed those units to the improved lethality of blast weapons.

Transports benefited greatly from no longer having their units penned (passing a leadership 8 test is statistically good odds) when the vehicle blew up -- say from close combat specialists (Tyranids); not to mention that thanks to "emergency disembark" plus the damage chart itself (6-place embarked models in a crater) meant that it was no longer easy to wipe embarks units out when the vehicle was surrounded and destroyed. The end result for CC specialized armies was that sacrificing an expensive CC unit to destroy a cheap transport left the embarked units relatively unscathed.

While foot slogging nids benefitted from increased availability of cover saves (excluding MC of course), there ability to "hide" from incoming fire entirely was greatly reduced due to TLOS and wound allocation being applied to a unit rather than models in sight. They also now suffered greatly from the new "fearless" casualties inflicted upon losing CC as well as a decline in the effectiveness of rending.

There was also a great shift from VP (now basically KP) to Objectives which gave mechanized troop infantry an edge over their foot slogging brethren due to increased protection and movement.

As a result, armies began meching up (well those that could do so that is) at 5ths beginnings and the age of the nids came to an end.

As for Codices, rather than defining a "new trend", they have generally been strengthening the trend previously developed by 5th edition, in most cases, making vehicles, transports, and walkers less expensive while increasing the costs of MC (starting with C:Eldar’s Wraith Lords and carrying into C and C:Nids). When the guard codex came out much later, it became the poster child of this 5th edition movement (rather than the instigator).

Of course there are notable builds that are exceptions. However, many of these (but not all) rely on another 5th edition mechanism...wound allocation. Thus the immergence of the Blood Crusher (well this is a bit disingenuous as daemons can't make a vehicle heavy list), Biker Nobs, Farseer Bike Retinues, and Thunderwolf Calvary lists. Surprisingly, the nid codex, though having a plethora of multi-wound units, does not lend itself well to this mechanic .

Given this, I wouldn't be surprised for common DE lists to continue to rely heavily on a mechanized core.

Woo i want to guess battle force content

20 warrior , 5 wyches and a Raider

My guess is the battle force will have 2 troop choices, one transport and one other unit that can be increased in size (also helps if they work best a max size). They also normally use models that are plastic … so …
10* warriors
10* wyches
1 raider
3(or min size) Hellions/ Reaver
(*or one sprue)

LunaHound wrote:Woo i want to guess battle force content

20 warrior , 5 wyches and a Raider

Nice try, but I'll go with 10 Warriors, 10 Wyches, 5 Jetbikes, and a Raider.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Nice try, but I'll go with 10 Warriors, 10 Wyches, 5 Jetbikes, and a Raider.

Nice try, but I'll go with 10 Warriors, 10 Wytches, 3 Jetbikes, and a Raider.

Thats not even a deal.. GW needs to get serious about battleforces being worth it, the old ones were on average worth about 120$ per 90$ spent.. I really hope it has 130$ for the cost of 100$

10 warriors, 10 wyches, 3 jetbikes, raider and a box of hellions seems like what *should* be in it price wise

Doubt we'll see that

My bet is it comes with a little note with "Sorry we couldn't afford to fill this box with sprues after spending so much on making the rest of the army . . . But here is a list of product codes for all the models on the Dark Eldar range."

/synycysm . . . or maybe there's less Ys . . .

Oshova

Oshova wrote:My bet is it comes with a little note with "Sorry we couldn't afford to fill this box with sprues after spending so much on making the rest of the army . . . But here is a list of product codes for all the models on the Dark Eldar range."

/synycysm . . . or maybe there's less Ys . . .

Oshova

its cynicism ... and it costs less to just throw them in one box then it does to throw them in 4.

Thanks Tri =D

And that may be so, but I bet they make more from selling the seperate 4 boxes than they do from the one big combi-box (no that's not a Bolter with an underslung Box that can only be used once . . . )

Oshova

Well you may think that but you don't need that many troop most armies at most could buy 3 boxes.
Any way after you've bought one they've got you and you'll be shelling out £30+ each for the heavy support options not to mention fast, elites and Hqs that do the work in most armies.

Edit ... "have you got any glue? paints? brushes? ... that'll be ninty pounds i hope to see you again"

As an ex-employee of GW I can tell you we sold about 2 Battleforce/Batallion boxes in 5 monhts or so . . . Admittedly the shop's rubbish . . . but yeah, most people prefer to buy the combination of models they find most effective, and people new to the game prefer to buy the starter box (and then be sold the extra £90 worth of stuff)

Oshova

That's because Battleforces are bought by Veterans over the Internet...

10 warriors 10 wychs 1 raider is what i'm going with simply because the battle forces keep getting smaller...just take a look at the tyranids one that had a carnifex in it and the imperial guard one that used to have a lemen russ...

25+25+33 = 83

So they're going to charge $100 for $83 worth of models?

Loving the new models xD

However I have a few nagging concerns. First off, the Wyches.

They look much tidier and nicer than the old metal Wyches, however, they don't look very dynamic in their posing for the base kit (ie without conversion)

Also, the new Incubi. I LOVE the new bodies etc, but I just can't get over how much I can't stand the swords and/or their helms. They all look like they're standing really awkwardly because of how the sword grips are placed and how big they are. Also the helmets look far too much like something out of LOTR.

Everything else? Very nice (Y)

That's basically GW's price policy anyway.

Gwar! wrote:
The old Dissies were able to not only decimate hoards, but rip apart TMC and even crack light transports.

The new ones are pointless and are a classic example of GW nerfing a current power model to try and sell the same models to their customers again (i.e. everyone already had 3 Ravagers with Dissies, now they want to make people buy 3 more with DL instead). Another great example is the Carnifex. Everyone had 6, so they nerf them to make them have to buy Trygons.

Some of you never seem to get tired of trotting this out as if it's an astute or original observation. How about this - the Disintegrator was too powerful in the context of the revised list, so they toned it down. That would be typical of Phil Kelly's approach. I used to play Dark Eldar, and plan to do so again, and I'm still happy with 3 S5 Ap2 shots. It's not 'pointless', it's just a more specialised weapon.

I agree, its a xeno version of the heavy bolter and its much better (as it should be ).

haroon wrote:I agree, its a xeno version of the heavy bolter and its much better (as it should be ).

Or its the Dark eldar version of the star cannon, not worth it and in the case of the star cannon over priced.

Oshova wrote:As an ex-employee of GW I can tell you we sold about 2 Battleforce/Batallion boxes in 5 monhts or so . . . Admittedly the shop's rubbish . . . but yeah, most people prefer to buy the combination of models they find most effective, and people new to the game prefer to buy the starter box (and then be sold the extra £90 worth of stuff)

Oshova

Or they have been buying larger purchases of Battle Forces behind your back with online discount retailers ,
and in store purchase that you have seen , a small box here and there out of compulsiveness , and to make the staff feel better xD

y'know how bout we end this tooo long thread with a simple statement: THE NEW DARK ELDAR ARE FRIKKIN AWESOME! happy?

Yes they are very nice :3

The new eldar are gorgeous, freaking beautiful, and if people got their heads outta their 's for a second, they could see the good the new stuff brings to the table.

look can we end this already?

Why should we end it? If you don't want to read it, don't click on it.

power at last bwahahahahahahaa! i need a girlfriend.....

Until they are actually released this is one of the only places we can talk about it without the thread being locked. If you dont want to read this, dont.

okokok im done. sorry folks. enjoy ur thread

Tailgunner wrote:

Gwar! wrote:
The old Dissies were able to not only decimate hoards, but rip apart TMC and even crack light transports.

The new ones are pointless and are a classic example of GW nerfing a current power model to try and sell the same models to their customers again (i.e. everyone already had 3 Ravagers with Dissies, now they want to make people buy 3 more with DL instead). Another great example is the Carnifex. Everyone had 6, so they nerf them to make them have to buy Trygons.

Some of you never seem to get tired of trotting this out as if it's an astute or original observation. How about this - the Disintegrator was too powerful in the context of the revised list, so they toned it down. That would be typical of Phil Kelly's approach. I used to play Dark Eldar, and plan to do so again, and I'm still happy with 3 S5 Ap2 shots. It's not 'pointless', it's just a more specialised weapon.

Overpowered? lol...maybe undercosted but certainly wasn't overpowered, it's only a plasma cannon.

The old battleforce was 10 warriors + 10 warriors + 1 raider + 5 reaver jetbikes. That set up (maybe changing 10 warriors for 10 wyches) would work even better now. Reaver jetbikes got a bit worse with time, but now it looks they are going to be quite worthy. And warriors, wyches and raiders are the core of the army so... It would be a good deal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Farmer wrote:

Tailgunner wrote:

Gwar! wrote:
The old Dissies were able to not only decimate hoards, but rip apart TMC and even crack light transports.

The new ones are pointless and are a classic example of GW nerfing a current power model to try and sell the same models to their customers again (i.e. everyone already had 3 Ravagers with Dissies, now they want to make people buy 3 more with DL instead). Another great example is the Carnifex. Everyone had 6, so they nerf them to make them have to buy Trygons.

Some of you never seem to get tired of trotting this out as if it's an astute or original observation. How about this - the Disintegrator was too powerful in the context of the revised list, so they toned it down. That would be typical of Phil Kelly's approach. I used to play Dark Eldar, and plan to do so again, and I'm still happy with 3 S5 Ap2 shots. It's not 'pointless', it's just a more specialised weapon.

Overpowered? lol...maybe undercosted but certainly wasn't overpowered, it's only a plasma cannon.

A plasma cannon without the "Gets hot!" rule and with a secondary firing mode. It was a great weapon. The new version doesn't look bad at all for me. It's slightly better than the older rapid fire mode, and less powerful than the older full power mode. But it's cheaper (it's been said that ravagers can swap the 3 DL for dissies with no extra cost) and faster (ravagers now can move 12" and shoot all their weapons) now. The change is not THAT bad for me. I would field 1 or 2. And I probably will xD

Tailgunner wrote:

Gwar! wrote:
The old Dissies were able to not only decimate hoards, but rip apart TMC and even crack light transports.

The new ones are pointless and are a classic example of GW nerfing a current power model to try and sell the same models to their customers again (i.e. everyone already had 3 Ravagers with Dissies, now they want to make people buy 3 more with DL instead). Another great example is the Carnifex. Everyone had 6, so they nerf them to make them have to buy Trygons.

Some of you never seem to get tired of trotting this out as if it's an astute or original observation. How about this - the Disintegrator was too powerful in the context of the revised list, so they toned it down. That would be typical of Phil Kelly's approach. I used to play Dark Eldar, and plan to do so again, and I'm still happy with 3 S5 Ap2 shots. It's not 'pointless', it's just a more specialised weapon.

And also : everyone had six Carnifexii BECAUSE they were clearly unbalanced, not the other way around.

Erasoketa wrote:The old battleforce was 10 warriors + 10 warriors + 1 raider + 5 reaver jetbikes. That set up (maybe changing 10 warriors for 10 wyches) would work even better now. Reaver jetbikes got a bit worse with time, but now it looks they are going to be quite worthy. And warriors, wyches and raiders are the core of the army so... It would be a good deal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Farmer wrote:

Tailgunner wrote:

Gwar! wrote:
The old Dissies were able to not only decimate hoards, but rip apart TMC and even crack light transports.

The new ones are pointless and are a classic example of GW nerfing a current power model to try and sell the same models to their customers again (i.e. everyone already had 3 Ravagers with Dissies, now they want to make people buy 3 more with DL instead). Another great example is the Carnifex. Everyone had 6, so they nerf them to make them have to buy Trygons.

Some of you never seem to get tired of trotting this out as if it's an astute or original observation. How about this - the Disintegrator was too powerful in the context of the revised list, so they toned it down. That would be typical of Phil Kelly's approach. I used to play Dark Eldar, and plan to do so again, and I'm still happy with 3 S5 Ap2 shots. It's not 'pointless', it's just a more specialised weapon.

Overpowered? lol...maybe undercosted but certainly wasn't overpowered, it's only a plasma cannon.

A plasma cannon without the "Gets hot!" rule and with a secondary firing mode. It was a great weapon. The new version doesn't look bad at all for me. It's slightly better than the older rapid fire mode, and less powerful than the older full power mode. But it's cheaper (it's been said that ravagers can swap the 3 DL for dissies with no extra cost) and faster (ravagers now can move 12" and shoot all their weapons) now. The change is not THAT bad for me. I would field 1 or 2. And I probably will xD

It was a great weapon, why do you think i used to run 9 of them?.

The new version is terrible, and i'm not surprised there is no extra cost, it isn't "useless" but it's pointless when there is better options out there, you obviously just started DE.

Dizzies were one of the best guns in the game, anyone are to contest?

Then it's a horrible horrible nerf ^_^

Farmer wrote:

Erasoketa wrote:

A plasma cannon without the "Gets hot!" rule and with a secondary firing mode. It was a great weapon. The new version doesn't look bad at all for me. It's slightly better than the older rapid fire mode, and less powerful than the older full power mode. But it's cheaper (it's been said that ravagers can swap the 3 DL for dissies with no extra cost) and faster (ravagers now can move 12" and shoot all their weapons) now. The change is not THAT bad for me. I would field 1 or 2. And I probably will xD

It was a great weapon, why do you think i used to run 9 of them?.

The new version is terrible, and i'm not surprised there is no extra cost, it isn't "useless" but it's pointless when there is better options out there, you obviously just started DE.

a) read the bold sentence again. I agree with you, I'm not attacking you.

b) what I "obviously" haven't done is reading the new codex, so I don't have a picture of how the options work now as a team. I bought my first DE codex like 9 years ago.

Read the new codex at my local hobby shop yesterday and must say Im impressed. Very well written, plenty of new fluff and units.

But hands down im very wowed by GW not pushing the codex creep with this one. Overall I see a very well balanced army without the "MOTHER OF TITS! FLYING DREADNOUGHTS, DS LANDRAIDERS, JoWW, AND SQUADS OF LR'S!? WTF MATE!?"

Also without most of the rediculous over the top fluff of the new codexes; "THE MOST BALLIN SHINY ANGEL VAMPIRES EVERRRR!!!, WOLFY WOLF WOLFS WHO RIDE WOLVES IN THE WOLF TIME KILLING THINGS WITH WOLF CLAWS!!!"

To me for now it seems they made a well balanced yet very competative army while bringing new life to the DE.

Erasoketa wrote:

Farmer wrote:

Erasoketa wrote:

A plasma cannon without the "Gets hot!" rule and with a secondary firing mode. It was a great weapon. The new version doesn't look bad at all for me. It's slightly better than the older rapid fire mode, and less powerful than the older full power mode. But it's cheaper (it's been said that ravagers can swap the 3 DL for dissies with no extra cost) and faster (ravagers now can move 12" and shoot all their weapons) now. The change is not THAT bad for me. I would field 1 or 2. And I probably will xD

It was a great weapon, why do you think i used to run 9 of them?.

The new version is terrible, and i'm not surprised there is no extra cost, it isn't "useless" but it's pointless when there is better options out there, you obviously just started DE.

a) read the bold sentence again. I agree with you, I'm not attacking you.

b) what I "obviously" haven't done is reading the new codex, so I don't have a picture of how the options work now as a team. I bought my first DE codex like 9 years ago.

Who said i thought you were attacking me?, sorry if you got the wrong end of the stick.

I was just having a little friendly rant on how dissies got nerfed.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Laughing God wrote:Read the new codex at my local hobby shop yesterday and must say Im impressed. Very well written, plenty of new fluff and units.

But hands down im very wowed by GW not pushing the codex creep with this one. Overall I see a very well balanced army without the "MOTHER OF TITS! FLYING DREADNOUGHTS, DS LANDRAIDERS, JoWW, AND SQUADS OF LR'S!? WTF MATE!?"

Also without most of the rediculous over the top fluff of the new codexes; "THE MOST BALLIN SHINY ANGEL VAMPIRES EVERRRR!!!, WOLFY WOLF WOLFS WHO RIDE WOLVES IN THE WOLF TIME KILLING THINGS WITH WOLF CLAWS!!!"

To me for now it seems they made a well balanced yet very competative army while bringing new life to the DE.

Sounds like a bad case of Edward cullen Vs Jacob black if you ask me...

necrongod wrote:y'know how bout we end this tooo long thread with a simple statement: THE NEW DARK ELDAR ARE FRIKKIN AWESOME! happy?

End? But we're almost at 60 pages?!


And I'd like to get some opinions on this Voidraven bomber...I asked on this thread or another, is there a model for it that I havn't seen or are we going to have to wait for wave 2 (or whatever?)

Closest thing I've seen is this




or this



If one were able to somehow cross the two (the smooth style of the dragon thing, but maybe some spikes or something to distinguish it from regular elder, but without looking as...crappy...as that fighter?)

The first model looks absolutely horrid.

I'll be using #2, with maybe some leftover Raider bits to Delfdar it up, for my Voidraven Bomber.

iLLiTHiD wrote:

necrongod wrote:y'know how bout we end this tooo long thread with a simple statement: THE NEW DARK ELDAR ARE FRIKKIN AWESOME! happy?

End? But we're almost at 60 pages?!


And I'd like to get some opinions on this Voidraven bomber...I asked on this thread or another, is there a model for it that I havn't seen or are we going to have to wait for wave 2 (or whatever?)

Closest thing I've seen is this




or this



If one were able to somehow cross the two (the smooth style of the dragon thing, but maybe some spikes or something to distinguish it from regular elder, but without looking as...crappy...as that fighter?)

Good job i have both those models, although i get the feeling i'll be having to use 3 of them...

SaintHazard wrote:The first model looks absolutely horrid.

I'll be using #2, with maybe some leftover Raider bits to Delfdar it up, for my Voidraven Bomber.

The second option is definately the better way to go. Another possibility is the plain Eldar Phoenix. There's less Eldar ornaments on this model and it's basically the same thing.

Rymafyr wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:The first model looks absolutely horrid.

I'll be using #2, with maybe some leftover Raider bits to Delfdar it up, for my Voidraven Bomber.

The second option is definately the better way to go. Another possibility is the plain Eldar Phoenix. There's less Eldar ornaments on this model and it's basically the same thing.

Yeah but £65 is pricey especially if you want 3 in your army.

Oh, very nice! Yeah, that one will be much easier to Delfdarify, I won't have to get rid of the runes and whatnot.

I didn't see that one on ForgeWorld's website, am I missing something?

SaintHazard wrote:Oh, very nice! Yeah, that one will be much easier to Delfdarify, I won't have to get rid of the runes and whatnot.

I didn't see that one on ForgeWorld's website, am I missing something?

You're missing something.

Look on the Eldar section.

I think I will just wait for wave 2 to get them.

This is pretty awesome, and might be cheaper if you have any spare raiders to kit bash with.

Nice find, that looks pretty sweet.

Anyone have a size comparison for the Phoenix? Up against a Raider, or even a Wave Serpent? The pictures on FW don't give a good indication of scale.

It's the size of a Marauder, so...

About double the length of a Rhino, wingspan being the same.

Kanluwen wrote:It's the size of a Marauder, so...

About double the length of a Rhino, wingspan being the same.

Thank you.

Yeah, that pretty much closes the deal. Will be getting one (possibly two) of those when I start seriously buying DE models.

I'd hold off. I'm going to be VERY surprised if Forge World doesn't already have them in the pipe.

Kanluwen wrote:I'd hold off. I'm going to be VERY surprised if Forge World doesn't already have them in the pipe.

I think you're right on the money.

Farmer wrote:

This is pretty awesome, and might be cheaper if you have any spare raiders to kit bash with.

I've seen that before and it's, IMO, just the worst of the worst...looks more like a kitbashed orc vehicle.

Kanluwen wrote:I'd hold off. I'm going to be VERY surprised if Forge World doesn't already have them in the pipe.

It'll be months before I'm able to start buying DE models, so I'm not super worried.

Sorry if I missed it, but does anybody know more about the new deldar fluff?

SaintHazard wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I'd hold off. I'm going to be VERY surprised if Forge World doesn't already have them in the pipe.

It'll be months before I'm able to start buying DE models, so I'm not super worried.

I kinda have the same sentiment. I saw someone play a game using pretty much just the stuff that'll be in the first wave, it didn't go to well. Dark Eldar will really need their 1.5 and wave 2 units before they stand a chance at being competetive.

Munch Munch! wrote:Sorry if I missed it, but does anybody know more about the new deldar fluff?

Strongly hinted Drazhar is actually Arhra the fallen phoenix, or him in Drazhar's body.

Not to sure about dark eldar what twist gives them a gaming advantage, yet i am biased against all elven types, as i crush them whimpering under foot of stegadon or Railgun, I HATE THEM I HATE THEM HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE them.

So now that you have declared your love for DE, what do you think you will buy first Aun'Shi?

Oshova

Oshova wrote:So now that you have declared your love for DE, what do you think you will buy first Aun'Shi?

Oshova

The book would be a start!

But that requires reading =S I'm not sure I can manage that

Also on the Bomber, I think I will definitely be buying whatever looks right from FW, depending on the rules, and the look of the new models when I actually see them first hand.

Oshova

Your signature bothers me.

How does that gentleman's hair remain so perfectly styled, even in the rain, and winds strong enough to blow the rain nearly sideways?

And it's been constantly raining for months now. Yet his hair is still perfect.

Bothersome. Bothersome bother.

SaintHazard wrote:Your signature bothers me.

How does that gentleman's hair remain so perfectly styled, even in the rain, and winds strong enough to blow the rain nearly sideways?

And it's been constantly raining for months now. Yet his hair is still perfect.

Bothersome. Bothersome bother.

That would be because Kira has spent so long piloting GUNDAM Battle Suits that his hair is full of grease and oil, and as such is now immune to the effects of both wind and rain

Also, I no longer have access to Photoshop Image Ready, so can't currently make any new animated signatures in the way I would like =p

Oshova