Casper wrote:So does anyone know how the bikes will be boxed? Will they be individual like current eldar bikes and tau suits or will they be like SM bikes (3 per box). The other question I have is cost...I'm betting most of the units will be in the $35 range, bikes around $45?
Someone said they'll be 3 Reavers to a box, so...go from there.
I'm very impressed with what they've shown us so far, especially since the Dark Eldar were the first army I got interested in. Just wondering, does anyone have any insight on if they will be easier to use with the updated rules, or will they still be only for expert gamers?
From Wolfs_Bane over at Warseer (which i did read today oh well...).
Wolfs_Bane;5008281 wrote:
Originally Posted by Sildani View Post
Some rules info I've found whilst trawling the Web, from Isotope99 and elsewhere:
Ravagers only AV 11 11 10 but can fire all three dark lances at cruising speed (couple that with fast and... I need to read my rulebook again, but I think it should allow them to go 12" and fire all three weapons, bye bye land raider).
Raider has a Dark Lance. I heard before the raider was without DL, but that was wrong.
Reaver Jetbikes T4, 5+ save, can Turbo-boost 36". They can perform a "fly-by" attack on units they fly past WITHOUT getting into CC. There were several upgrades for reaver jetbikes that inflict different numbers of S3/4/6 hits on units when doing their 'fly by' attack. There was half a page of description about this, so I can't remember the details.
Reaver Jetbikes has Strength 3 too. The text said the jetbike gives +1 to save and +1 to Toughness (included in the profile). So that should be the benefit for the Archon too.
I think I understood the bike unit can get something like a melta-lance but only Strength 6.
The DE seem to have an armywide Acute Senses rule.
Night Vision is called.
The pyramid thing the Archon is holding might be a wargear item that doubles his Strength IF he kills an enemy MC/SC in close combat.
If he kills and enemy MC/SC in close combat he doubles his Strength to 6. If he kills another one, he doubles his Strength to 10.
The rumored rule where the DE get stronger as they kill the enemy is called Strength Through Pain.
Phil Kelly said Wyches were Troops.
He also said more things about the Dark Eldars:
- It can be 3 kind of armies with this book: Kabalyte, With Cult and Haemunculus army.
- It is a very offensive army but very very fragile, so it need a good player. If you expose yourself, you are dead.
- Combat Drugs is streamlined to all army. You make one roll at the beginning of the game and that roll is for every unit with combat drugs.
- The most dificult thing to integrate in the codex was Asdrubael Vect. It is a very very powerful character. But Asdrubal Vect is not in his ravager, now, it is a SC.
- The thing he is most proud of is the background of the DE. I think I understood he was several years working with Jess in it (I may be wrong with this because he speaks too fast to me )
- Every unit it was in the previous codex is in this codex and there is 5 new units there wasn't in the previous codex (I have read here people saying 3, but I understood 5).
- Splinter weaponry makes a wound in a 4+ (normal poison weapon).
- Shadow Field are still in (Phil said it was a very fun object so the have it in).
And I can say something that I saw in the sheets the had:
- Warrior profile stats are like current. They have splinter rifle that is rapid fire. They don't have plasma granades neither splinter pistol. So, forget about disembarking, shooting and assaulting.
- Wytch profile stats are like current. They still have 4+ dodge save in CC. As said before, normal wytch weapon (without halving HS), and 2 more weapons (one that bonus +1D6 attacks instead of +1 attack by 2 CC weapons and another that let to re-roll anything failed to hit and to wound in CC).
- Jetbike profile is under the current stats (-1 to save, -1 to strength). Every other thing said (turboboost at 36" and that kind of hit a unit in the movement phase).
- Archon profile is better (+1 HS, +1WS, +1A, +1LD). It can by a blaster pistol.
- Incubi profile is almost the same (+1A but they lose the Tormentor Helm). The klaive gives the unit to roll again (only one time) the 6 to wound (not to hit as I have read before). The "leader" of the Incubi has +1HS too.
And they have a template weapon that is Strength 3 and FP 3.
That is all I can remember now (I have come back right now to my house in Spain from England).
I love this new Dark Eldar (I'm not so easy with the hornets of the Incubi, I prefer the old ones).
Regarding the Raiders looking like Jaba The Hutt's barge thing, let me just say "I told you so". And as for the similarity others have pointed out in some of the details of the sails to Chinese junks, now you know from whence the sculptors and model makers at Lucasfilm took some inspiration when they created Jabba's barge.
Now I have to say I am really impressed with the new DE items and I may add a little bit of it to my existing army if I can find the time, especially those items made of plastic.
When do the Advance Orders for this release go on the GW web store?
Damn it, in addition to the task of finishing my Blood Angels, Black Templar, Chaos Space Marines, Tau, Imperial Guard, Orks, Skaven, Easterlings, and my friend's heroscape models, I now have to start Dark Eldar because of the awesome sculpts. Damn you Jes, damn you to hell...
Seems like once per page, somebody asks when these go up for preorder... Is anyone actually reading the thread? Cause you're probably missing more pics and rules news if you're not...
Farmer wrote:Not liking the mandrake design one bit, i prefer the bald guys with built in hand knives, not wierd cave-men looking elves.
I like the new design a lot, though I do miss the hand blade (visible in my avatar pic.)
This looks more like a mandrake to me (apart from the boobs of course)
Yeah, when I first saw it, I thought it might be mandrake too. It's a wych, though. (At least, it was tagged in the photo as a Wych and it was with the wyches in the cabinet. Maybe a sybarite?...err Succubus? Am I mixing up Wych terms?)
I think what they did was best, personally. The mandrakes just didn't look very good, and needed a major redesign...the leather-clad guys with knives fit in much better with the gladiatorial wyches.
Sidstyler wrote:I think what they did was best, personally. The mandrakes just didn't look very good, and needed a major redesign...the leather-clad guys with knives fit in much better with the gladiatorial wyches.
Sorta Agree there/. Still I'll have to see the models myself for final judgment
I'm thinking Lelith is taking the title of "Most Number of Entries in a Golden Demon". That is one hell of a model. I only quibble at the bare feet. Who goes to war shoeless?
When I first saw the new Mandrakes I was a bit torn. I wasn't sure how I felt about the ghoulish things with long white hair draped over their faces. Then I decided that it was appropriately creepy considering they're shadow-skinned beings who live in the dark. (Their shadowskin was never really explained until now.)
Then it occurred to me that there was nothing in the old rules that explained why Mandrakes were cannibalistic and more vicious and dangerous than other DE, they simply WERE... Inexplicably. For no good reason, they didn't belong to the Kabals, even though they were basically just DE that were slightly more sneaky.
But now that they're only half DE and half... something else, (demon?) it stands to reason that they'd look so much different. I've decided that their new look fits their old fluff a lot better. They're not of the Kabals, or Cults, or Covens, or Eyries... They are a different and mysterious type of DE. They always were, but now they actually look the part!
Sidstyler wrote:The human-skin skirts are kinda odd though, I admit, but I agree.
I imagine it's just as likely to be skin from other DE, or any race that can be skinned. Mandrakes don't discriminate.
If the models match the design sketch --and there's no reason to suspect they won't -- I think they'll sell like hotcakes. Hell, if they don't have guns, they might be able to use them in that other game. The human skin hakama is pretty boss.
Gwar! wrote:You skimmed the rules and I wasn't informed?
YOU MUST BE PUNISHED! With Spanking!
Kinky.
Didn't get to see the whole codex, just 20 or so pages that were on a folder on the desk next to the cabinet, there were loads of people cramming in so no time for an in depth read. Was promised more new models would be on display at GD Germany (i think). With a total initial release of 6 plastic and 4 metal sets, plus another 2 waves in the next 1-2 years. The fluff I saw was interesting, Tau try to befriend the DE then the DE demand 7 ethereals or 7000 other tau, which sounded like a fun day out.
Tau are being made the fool in every new piece of fluff lately...gotta say I'm a bit worried now, they're rumored to get an update next year and GW doesn't seem to like them at all.
I don't think it makes them foolish, it just highlights how different they are to every other race. They're pretty much the only sane culture in a universe of lunatics.
Sidstyler wrote:Tau are being made the fool in every new piece of fluff lately...gotta say I'm a bit worried now, they're rumored to get an update next year and GW doesn't seem to like them at all.
That's how DE always felt until now... Hopefully that's an indication of things to come, as Tau are my 2nd favorite army.
And I don't like how IG is always the army getting it's a$$ kicked in every piece of art (new DE Codex included.) I'd MUCH rather see SMs getting trampled.
imho, with the rate at which Tau progress, they will be the ones ruling the galaxy in the end.
Well, what an incredible tour de force upgrade, I am not a DE player but I can appreciate how happy the fans must be to finally get their new line!
A little Iffy on the horns on the incubi and archon, but only because they also remind me of chaos as others have mentioned, not that they look bad at all. I have a feeling though that the fluff may come to incorporate a bit more daemon involvement, which could justify it completely!
One thing though, anyone have pics from the Golden Daemons???????
I have always had tremendous respect for Goodwin's work, but these models are making me think that I might - and i NEVER thought this would happen - start up a Dark Eldar army. Solid all around, good coherent design-sense, looks like great sprues and options. Really great work.
Do we know which models were made by which sculptors specifically? I know that others besides Jes were also involved to some degree.
and about them Munchkins...
generalgrog wrote:The archon on the codex cover reminds me of the lollypop kids from Wizard of Oz.
GG
I think, good sir, that you are doing a dis-service to The Lollypop Guild, of Munchinkin Land.
Sirius42 wrote:IIRC incubi weapons either give you +2 attacks or +2 strength, players choice each round of CC.
According to the info thats been posted Incubi only get 1+ strength and 2 attacks...like they did before.
Could be, i only skimmed the rules, although im pretty sure there was an either/or aspect to it.
Earlier in the thread someone said this might be the Incubi leader's wargear item that allowed either higher strength or extra attacks. If that's a rule for the whole Incubi unit it would be both flavorful and powerful, and make them worth the points to add an elite hammer unit to a DE force.
does anyone know what size bases the new jetbikes are on? They look like the small flight bases. I reallly hope they dont have the big obnoxious large flight bases
sum1thtdiesalot wrote:does anyone know what size bases the new jetbikes are on? They look like the small flight bases. I reallly hope they dont have the big obnoxious large flight bases
Opinion on that may change if they fall over constantly on the smaller flight bases.
Well I've got round $400 in credit and giftcards to spend in November. So at least I can lock down 8-10 vehicles and the codex. Then it's on to slowly building up the plastic other kits
I seriously haven't been this excited since the Orks came out (after a decade) and that paled in comparison to this. Kudo's GW. Way to exceed expectations this time. But for the love of god don't take this long on other Xeno armies
Oh man. I was holding out that the revamp would be nice. Seriously this is just amazing. WAY better then the Ork revamp, and I think the Orks look friggin awesome. Son of a bitch! This is going to hurt my pocket book something fierce. I jsut hope they dont suffer from "new codex = YOU CANT BEAT THEM HAHAHA!!!!" syndrome
Wow. I cant stop looking at them. The idea sharks are just swimming in my head. Hell Ive already got a color scheme planned and everything.
Sirius42 wrote:IIRC incubi weapons either give you +2 attacks or +2 strength, players choice each round of CC.
According to the info thats been posted Incubi only get 1+ strength and 2 attacks...like they did before.
Could be, i only skimmed the rules, although im pretty sure there was an either/or aspect to it.
Earlier in the thread someone said this might be the Incubi leader's wargear item that allowed either higher strength or extra attacks. If that's a rule for the whole Incubi unit it would be both flavorful and powerful, and make them worth the points to add an elite hammer unit to a DE force.
Do we have any confirmation that the Incubi weapons are still power weapons?
Cryonicleech wrote:I'd cry, but I don't have enough tears in me to express how freaking awesome this is.
I mean literally, this makes up for all the crap GW... and I mean all of it...
lol I hear ya. Im thinking the same thing..... damn the Blood angel nipples and insanely over powered rules, along with the crazy builds you get with Space Wolves, and the fact that pretty much everything revolves around the Space Marines some how.......its all going to be ok from now on
Wyches are my faves. They finally look like they're headed into real combat and not a gladitorial game. But I'm very impressed with everything I've seen and the design approach taken. They're fresh, they're great sculpts, they evoke "eldar" and yet you can see the evolution from the old minis. I think the line landed perfectly in the sweet spot, and kudos to Jes on that.
Oh, and kudos to GW. Finally did an old-style big reveal at GDUK and all it did was create a flood on hobby forums everywhere. Now personally I would have opened them up to preorders on Monday just to capture all the excitement, but I guess they'll be up soon enough.
chaos0xomega wrote:
Eidolon wrote:Guess ill be starting a crone world eldar army come september
I was thinking the same, but we will have to see what the rules look like. I'm not sure how representative of crone worlders the DE codex will be
Ha! Great minds think alike. My biggest question is how compatible these plastics will be with Eldar, Welves, Delves and Helves. That's a serious amount of kitbash potential. But like you, I'm gonna wait and see on the codex and if it fits with my vision of crone worlders.
I don't recall any metal on display I could be wrong though the display was so crowded it was hard to get a good look for many of us as far as I could tell all the new stuff is plastic.
Nurglitch wrote:So which ones are plastic kits and which ones are metal? I figure Warriors and Wyches will be plastic, and obviously the Raiders, but what else?
No sign yet of:
Ravager
Helions
Mandrakes
anything else
Ravager/Raider
Fast, skimmer, open-topped (no surprise there)
Raider AV 10 10 10
Ravager AV 11 11 10
Ravager armed with three dark lances (seems to be standard, no idea about upgrades)
Able to fire all three weapons at cruising speed (12"?)
Reavers (don't know if these are troops or fast attack? My guess is they stay fast)
+1T, but only armour save 5+ (rather than the Eldar version that gives 3+)
36" turbo boost (so should be no objective you can't contest on the final turn)
They're armed with a splinter rifle but their main attack seems to be their blades (mono-something vanes). These had a fairly lengthy description and I can't remember all of it but it basically seemed to function like that bomb the ork Deffkoptas can have in that you pass over/near a unit and instead of charging it you inflict hits as you pass so the enemy can't immediately strike back. Presumably you can use this to soften the enemy up before engaging them with wyches etc.
There were some extra upgrades to increase the strength of the hits, inflict more of them etc.
Wyches (troops as standard I think)
Upgradable weapons that provide bonuses to the unit, or reduce the enemy's stats (didn't see the rules on these?)
Archon(didn't see any of his wargear)
WS/BS: 7 S/T/W: 3 I: 7 A: 3or4? Ld: 9 or 10? Save: 5+
Phil Kelly said that the cube he's carrying on the front of the codex and one of the models doubles his strength if he can kill an independent character or monstrous creature. (Instant death versus any strength 6+ weapon )
Incubi/Warriors (didn't see these pages, I think the Incubi might be moving to elites from HQ to fill the Wyches' slot)
Mandrakes (The glowing yellow guys on the cover, so I would expect there to be models but can't confirm)
They strike from the shadows and get more powerful after they've tasted blood (not sure if this is just fluff or if it will be represented by some special rules).
That's pretty much all I have. So far the glass cannon theme is well intact, the prospect of facing a squad of long fangs able to nobble two vehicles per turn is pretty terrifying.
I don't think we can tell what their strengths are going to be yet but I expect lots of reserves, wyches assaulting out of their open-topped raiders and super fast reavers providing cover saves for the vehicles and contesting objectives late.
Mandreaks are shadow bit chaos thing that eats souls and glow green(you on cover)
New character former DE queen..and Vects wive....after he dump her, she started planning revange on him.
This is about rules ect.
Power from Pain- After destroying non-vehicle unit, DE gets on winners pain token.
One token on unit and DE have FnP 2 on and FC 3 on and fearless
Tokens are cumulative and rule army wide.
Reavers inflicts impact hits on units they fly trough. D3 S3 for each bike, with some options to improve.
Incubi are very simmilar to aspect warriors; exarch witch special powers and wepons....(i recall one with Preffered enemy).
Wyches have 3 diffrent wych weapons.....look nice.
Archon have new retinue of some nasty bodyguards, incubi ale elite mercenaries now.
Ravager can shoot al three lances on cruising speed.
Guess that's about as consolidated as I could find.
The Delfdar models look very nice. I know of one player that will be happy now if they can only get that new codex sooner rather then later he would be really happy.
Listrel wrote:I don't recall any metal on display I could be wrong though the display was so crowded it was hard to get a good look for many of us as far as I could tell all the new stuff is plastic.
The concensus is that some were resin masters (if not most).
I'm really pretty happy with the whole she-bang. Barefoot Wyches are pure win.
Semi-neutral on the Lord and the Incubi though. I dig the big swords but the Incubi feel a little less flavorful in design and I always liked the death masks and the old style punishers.
The Lord is about the same, he doesn't quite scream 'I'm a DE Lord, fear me!' I sort of miss some of the 80's glam rock feel we had but have now lost...well, except that gawdawful blown back hair.
Warriors are great, and even the Raiders and RJBs are nice enough I'll probably buy a couple of the new ones to work in with my old stuff.
gorgon wrote:
Ha! Great minds think alike. My biggest question is how compatible these plastics will be with Eldar, Welves, Delves and Helves. That's a serious amount of kitbash potential. But like you, I'm gonna wait and see on the codex and if it fits with my vision of crone worlders.
I repeat my offer of nathonicus's first-born child to whomever can first show whether the DE plastics fit with Guardian/WHFBDE plastics.
Looking at the sprue pics, it looks like the torso/waist joint will fit well. The shoulderjoints look like flats rather than ball/socket, so that might require a bit of patience and PVC cement to fit with Guardian plastics.- but that' s usually a minor issue. And if the scale's the same that it was for the old plastics, it should all look okay... and the side-by-side shot seems to demonstrate that, unless it was Pshopped.
Welvis bitz might be harder, though. Ooooh, decent running legs from Wyches... very exciting. Those will look great on Corsairs!
I've been waiting on the new DE to start my 2nd 40k army. The models look beautiful, and as long as the new codex is decent I'll be getting some new toys very soon!
Oh, and kudos to GW. Finally did an old-style big reveal at GDUK and all it did was create a flood on hobby forums everywhere. Now personally I would have opened them up to preorders on Monday just to capture all the excitement, but I guess they'll be up soon enough.
I agree wholeheartedly. I gotta say, I`ve never been a big fan of DE, but this is a pretty impressive release so far. Well done GW, well done
Is there a seperate thread for the new rules at all please.
Sorry but the (inevitable and justified) plaudits are now tedious to wade through for info.
I agree, I am glad people are as excited as I am but come on guys, if you don't have any info to add please try to resist the "Oh my god I now have to buy these....gonna be broke til next summer!....bleep blorp" crap comments....
They're making me want to buy some... I'm glad I sold my old ones... funnily enough except my lord who had a similar looking curved sword (he was a converted incubi with part of a raider spike/ram converted into a falchion/scimitar thing)
Oh dear... I guess it will depend how rediculously GW charge us for a raider seeing as you will need lots of them.
From what I can gather it doesn't seem like getting a peek at the rules was all that easy, so I have a feeling what little was already posted is probably going to be it until advance copies start hitting stores.
When do GWs get the codex's in store?
I have only ever used a local store (that i worked in ) and i don't even remember exactly when we got ours, i'm sure we had Space Wolves for at least a week or two before....
I know its another money comment, but i really wish i hadn't just started Uni no food in november methinks
These models are amazing. They make me not hate DE (until I play them I suspect.)
However I don't get the love for the new Lelith model. I mean it's just a chick in a bikini with a couple of knives. It hardly screams "gladiatorial champion" to me. When I first saw it I thought it was just another wych.
well this is it I can see lots of Dark Elf players getting the wyches, possibly even chaos slaaneshi players as well.. the minis have *options*. And yes finally the great question of can GW make female minis is answered!
Yay female females... I can see myself buying a box or two of these guys, converting them into a verity of threating and fascicle poses then painting them up.
Those mandrakes with the hakama are the only things so far that really look at all Japanese to me. It's a design difference that's actually a bit jarring. But I think I'll be able to dig it when it's in miniature form. We shall see.
Harry just confirmed Frgt/10's theory that we see the first blurry pic of the Ravager in the background of this pic:
Harry wrote:That is some good detective work frgt/10
That is the Ravager.
Two different sails on that kit. Interchangeable with the raider kit.
Other bits are interchangeable too so you can get some variation in your Raiders/Ravagers going on.
They have a guy on either side in outriggers.
I think the bit in the top right hand corner of the sprue is replaced by a more robust bit on the ravager sprue and the outriggers hang from this.
Can I also point out the rectangular bit in the center/bottom of the sprue.
In the picture of the raider it appears end on in the center of the kit ....
..... slide out gang plank.
I love this kit. All the piercing work is amazing. It is hard to make out but it is in a sort of bramble/thorn design. Stunning.
Summary of first wave:
Plastic: Warriors, Wyches, Hellions, Raider, Ravager/Slaughterer, Reaver jetbikes (set of 3)
Metal boxes: Mandrakes, Incubi and a third one.
Blisters: Lelith, Archon, Wych Lord.
Wraithlordmechanic wrote:These models are amazing. They make me not hate DE (until I play them I suspect.)
However I don't get the love for the new Lelith model. I mean it's just a chick in a bikini with a couple of knives. It hardly screams "gladiatorial champion" to me. When I first saw it I thought it was just another wych.
The reason I like it is that it is sculpturally a complete step up from anything GW has ever done before. I don't mean in terms of lots of detailing. In fact, the lack of bling and a billion skulls is refreshing and welcome in my view. Instead, look at the pose.
People with a better knowledge of gaming minis will be able to correct me, but I don't recall seeing a mini from GW with contraposto like this before. I am referring to the twist of the torso, with the arms and knives spiralling round. I can't recall any from other companies tbh though again am sure the more experienced will be able to supply examples.
That she is balancing on the shaft of a spear would be enough of a distinction in my book. She is a gladatorial champion and doesn't need to be encumbered by various bits of equipment. Her poise seems to embody dexterity and deadly speed. My personal take on the figure. As ever tastes and opinions are allowed to differ so if you don't like it that is cool too.
Just Dave wrote:I'm unsure as to what's so amazing about the Lelith model... I recognise it's good, but I can't see why everyone loves it so much.
Someone hit the nail on the head earlier in this thread, I can't remember who, but the reason the Lelith model is so damned beautiful is because 1) she's actually in a dynamic, three-dimensional pose, 2) she has the "in motion" thing down flawlessly, and 3) the way she's balanced on the pole and holding her weapons at ready just feels so real and believable.
It's truly a gorgeous model. I will be getting one just to paint, if nothing else.
brotherskeeper74 wrote:Incubi are metal? What are these then? They look plastic to me.
Just asking. Not flaming. Not trying to start something.
I think the first post clarified that these are resin masters.
Even so, I personally absolutely love the Incubi models. I will be working Incubi into my DE list once I get the codex, just because the models are so nice.
I'm so tempted to come up with a list with a little bit of everything in the codex. So far none of the models have even come close to disappointing me.
CT GAMER wrote:That being said, the chaos vibe is a little heavy though, or is it just me?
I think the chaos vibe is okay. Whereas a CSM wakes up one morning and discovers he's grown horns or collects skulls because he's a psychotic nutjob, I'd like to think these Incubi have modelled their armour on the Chaos look on purpose in order to intimidate their enemies.
CT GAMER wrote:That being said, the chaos vibe is a little heavy though, or is it just me?
I think the chaos vibe is okay. Whereas a CSM wakes up one morning and discovers he's grown horns or collects skulls because he's a psychotic nutjob, I'd like to think these Incubi have modelled their armour on the Chaos look on purpose in order to intimidate their enemies.
I was rather under the impression that CSM did the same thing for the same reason.
"BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD" isn't just a fun thing to shout, it, like all warcries, is designed to be intimidating.
CT GAMER wrote:
That being said, the chaos vibe is a little heavy though, or is it just me?
I think you're mixing up the Chaos vibe with the Evil vibe. Don't worry though, everyone does it. The Chaos vibe is very similar indeed to the Evil vibe, but has the addition of tentacles, crab claws, chicken wings and other random mutations that would be delicious if cooked right.
She is rotating through all three axes
Even the most dynamic of the Incubi don't do this
(not a complaint as I find their poses well balanced)
Words like arabesque or baroque don't usually spring to mind when looking at minis.
When I see Red Box or some of the Avatars of War figures there is a sense of the figure inhabiting the space rather than being a representation of a figure. There sense of presence and scale belies the fact that they are only 28mm high.
They seem much bigger. I think a lot of people who have only seen these DE sculpts online will be in for a surprise when they get their hands on the minis
They look aces. Agreed with previous comments, I want to somehow get these in my good Eldar army. For starters, I've clearly found some models for my Shining Spears, with minimal amounts of spike-shaving too.
They all look so purty! Christmas will be prosperous for me I hope, as I'll also be getting myself the FW Shadow Spectres!
This is the kind of Archaic cool I was looking for when I started collecting 40k. Sadly, because DE were at the time, I collected CSM. Even if I don't collect the army I must convert an Archon!!
I wonder what this army would look like in forest green shading. I mean you can look at the range and see it in cool turquoises, you can see it in rich reds... but I personally can't see it in the warm green tones.
You know, I have never ever been one to go with the trend.
"New chaos! OMFG buy them!!!"
"Nah, im ok playing with my Imperial guard thanks."
"OMG Lolllersnakess, New Tyranids!!! Buuuuy now!"
"You know, im ok with how mine have turned out. Thanks for the heads up though."
Bu-ut. I think I might become a fanboy and buy a dark eldar battleforce (if they have one) cos they look beautiful. Theres none there i dont like. Except the archons pyramid thing. Im convinced it's a futuristic rubix cube.
What I am really liking about the new DE minis is the possibility for converting some DE to ones who became Harlequins. Even just some of the heads for the DE Wyches would make great Harlequin heads.
The Haemonculi have been out for years. You've never seen the greens?
I suspect they'll show the real Hamonculi with the new grotesques and the rumored uber-Grotesques, probably as a secondary release. Honestly, I can see a Haemonculi and grotesques box set much like the grot and slaver set being released down the line. They wouldn't mesh too well with these brutal raider models. It is a very different style and theme. They may also be unleashed along with the Talos to reinforce the theme of horrible perversion and sadistic torture.
This is all speculation, drawn from the other rumors and speculation contained within this thread.
Oh god! i'm just going to say I 45th everyones opinion, these look awesome! whether you play them or against them it's going to be a pleasure! but strangely I hope they're really expensive and require heaps of troops choices just so i'm not tempted to buy yhem and start another army i'll never finish! and Lelith....wow...i'm in love...sort of you know?
Well, I can't deny...Yakface and Gonads were spot on about how awesome these would look and how I'd want to get rid of my old, dated DE. Since that really is not practical, I'll be happy with having a fully painted DE force ready when the new codex drops and I'll have fun taking my time replacing my aged force.
Oh, and I call told ya on the fact Incubi are moved to Elites. While I admit it was speculation, It's just an obvious move based on how other armies retinues followed that same path. 36" Turbo boost also is a welcomed change. Now as long as Raiders get that same move, I'll see another of my speculations come to life.
I dont' see why they wouldnt make Incubi plastic. They could be elites now for all we know. In addition it would be cheaper and easier to paint with a higher quality than metal.
ProtoClone wrote:What I am really liking about the new DE minis is the possibility for converting some DE to ones who became Harlequins. Even just some of the heads for the DE Wyches would make great Harlequin heads.
Nice idea
tbh not overly fond of the Harlie sculpts. They ain't terrible but love the fluff
Loads of potential now for doing them to suit personal tastes.
Rymafyr wrote:Personally I don't see why horns are a default 'chaos' meme.
Hmm nobody else is "stupid" enough to include "neckbreak helpers" with their armour.
Dont get me wrong, rule of cool wins and i like the Incubi.
What makes the horns chaos though, is, that these are usually only seen on chaos models. Be it Fantasy Battle oder Warhammer 40K. Horns on human sized model means chaos.
But i would not mind being proven wrong.
wuestenfux wrote:What I want to know how the new DE will be played.
I guess still Kabalic Raider spam.
Wych Cult and Haemonculi Coven would be nice too.
I guess we have to find that out once the codex is sold. I mean besides hard hitting and fragile, which is no secret.
Glee Definitely worth the wait. Lilith is a must-have for painters.
I'm really happy for GW and Jes Goodwin. After coming out with bland crap like the ogre kingdoms and minotaurs, this outs them back at the top of their game.
Rymafyr wrote:Personally I don't see why horns are a default 'chaos' meme.
Hmm nobody else is "stupid" enough to include "neckbreak helpers" with their armour.
Dont get me wrong, rule of cool wins and i like the Incubi.
What makes the horns chaos though, is, that these are usually only seen on chaos models. Be it Fantasy Battle oder Warhammer 40K. Horns on human sized model means chaos.
But i would not mind being proven wrong.
Cheers
Well unless new fluff changes their orientation, I'd say the Incubi could prove that. I just don't personally see a Deer,Steer, or Hollywood Viking and automatically think "CHAOS"!
wuestenfux wrote:What I want to know how the new DE will be played.
I guess still Kabalic Raider spam.
Wych Cult and Haemonculi Coven would be nice too.
I guess we have to find that out once the codex is sold. I mean besides hard hitting and fragile, which is no secret.
The masks are obviously meant to invoke the image of Chaos demons. Right now I'm looking at them like a cross between samurai and shikami/hannya masks...both intimidating and indicative of the warrior wearing it assuming a role. Which ties in to the Eldar aspect warrior tradition as well.
Hopefully they'll cover their meaning in the codex a little.
plastictrees wrote:The masks are obviously meant to invoke the image of Chaos demons. Right now I'm looking at them like a cross between samurai and shikami/hannya masks...both intimidating and indicative of the warrior wearing it assuming a role. Which ties in to the Eldar aspect warrior tradition as well.
Hopefully they'll cover their meaning in the codex a little.
Now this makes sense to me. And wow! What kind of fluff would that lead to.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Is there a seperate thread for the new rules at all please.
Sorry but the (inevitable and justified) plaudits are now tedious to wade through for info.
I started one - but it was locked by mods because they told me it would be more confusing to have another thread open for rules than it would be to have it in 15+ pages of various discussions.
SilverMK2 wrote:Not so keen on the transports (which IMO look pretty stupid) or the jetbikes (which look very unbalanced). However, the sword guys look good, and I am "meh" on the wytches.
Might make fun conversions into other things (especially daemonettes and perhaps even certain Eldar units).
Should be plenty of conversion possibilities, as the DE warriors parts are interchangeable with the wytches and some of the plastic Eldar troops as well. And yes, thats official...it was in the Incoming! DE email from GW.
Look at that freaking Heavy weapon! My what an awsome group of models. even the unhelmeted heads are quite spectacular imo. The thing that really makes me like this update is that they do now look like Dark 'Eldar'. Honestly, the old DE had no resemblance to their kin.
I'm guessing the model bottom row second from the left is the Carbine. or whatever it will be called.
I think the warriors are some of the best plastic GW's done. I look at those and they have non of the tell tale signs of multi-pose plastic.
Iron Angel wrote:
Rymafyr wrote:Personally I don't see why horns are a default 'chaos' meme.
Hmm nobody else is "stupid" enough to include "neckbreak helpers" with their armour.
I'd guess incubi are going to be those most physically effected by the warp. Which is to say maybe the horns are physically part of them.
Even still Eldar technology does have a semi-organic nature and is relatively advanced, so what is to say it adds any significant weight to have horns. You're looking at them with the context of modern materials and that doesn't work with a fictional technologically advanced race.
As to "why horns...?" its because the are minimally invasive, yet showy. Imagine designing figure with nipple spikes or three legs. In the case of chaos space marines I'm not fond of horns because they're so much like an after thought and I blelieve more could be done to distinguish their armor. For dark eldar, they have distinguished armor and the horns these have I think contribute to their more graceful look.
I think one of the things that I most like about these models is that they finally have a range of Dark Eldar figures that look like Dark ELDAR. Before, the design similarities were only that they were humanoids slightly skinnier than human IG models, and that they had pointy/conical (comical?) helmets. Now, they look like they both came from a similar cultural aesthetic/design sensibility, with the DE having broken off, and going in a more, well, darkdirection. But changing much of the weaponry to look similar to Eldar weapons, and making the armor more like the Eldar line (which is really solid, IMO) only serves to STRENGTHEN the character and identity of the line, rather than dilute it (by making it similar to the existing Eldar) In my opinion.
I imagine they could pull something similar to Space Marine assault squads. Drop the jump packs get a transport.
I'm more inclined to say GW will just come up with some rules that make them better. Say something like, because even when they aren't moving they're hovering, their attacks are against the "top" armor, use side armor value.
That second model has no sense of balance looks like she'd be about to fall off.
SaintHazard wrote:In other words, you all want to make them more like SPESS MEHREENS?
No thanks.
I don't want them to be more like space marines. I was merely stating precedent for an alternative that doesn't diminish the character of the unit.
The simple fact is Scourges are a bit of a contradiction of function. In their current form they have two high price pieces of equipment, their weapon and their jump pack. The two are each used to the exclusion of the other. Making them over priced and rather ineffectual as a heavy support choice while simultaneously inappropriate in a hypothetical fast attack position.
So they either need new rules or some way for the player to choose to accentuate one of the two over the other.
catharsix wrote:I think one of the things that I most like about these models is that they finally have a range of Dark Eldar figures that look like Dark ELDAR. Before, the design similarities were only that they were humanoids slightly skinnier than human IG models, and that they had pointy/conical (comical?) helmets. Now, they look like they both came from a similar cultural aesthetic/design sensibility, with the DE having broken off, and going in a more, well, darkdirection. But changing much of the weaponry to look similar to Eldar weapons, and making the armor more like the Eldar line (which is really solid, IMO) only serves to STRENGTHEN the character and identity of the line, rather than dilute it (by making it similar to the existing Eldar) In my opinion.
Like I said before, Jes hit the sweet spot. Fresh and yet fitting the eldar "look." New and yet an evolution from the old minis. This is harder than it sounds.
And I don't think heavy weapons squads on foot exactly fit the DE ideal and fighting style.
What is inspiring to me about these is that it now becomes the most 'characterful' race within the 40k mythos. That was an element I loved about DE from the beginning. Not to discount anyone's army, a good modeler finds ways to personalize his force. With DE you just know there are stories to be told amongst even the troops and this new range will definately lend itself to showing what amazing stories will be told by us modelers. I know I'll be pissing off the wife..but I'll need a box of Wyches and Warriors from the start.
aka_mythos wrote:I don't want them to be more like space marines. I was merely stating precedent for an alternative that doesn't diminish the character of the unit.
While my post was partially in response to you, it was about 80% in response to the poster above you.
In any case, I always worry when people suggest that every race have a Tactical Squad-equivalent, an Assault Squad-equivalent, and a Devastato Squad-equivalent... as if Tac, Dev, and Assault squads are the end-all be-all of military tactica. Some races have been moving towards this (though, to be fair, many have moved away since RT days), including CSM (CSM, Raptors, and Havocs), Eldar (Dire Avengers, Banshees, and Reapers), and Necrons (Warriors, Flayed Ones, and Immortals (kind of)). Same formula throughout - a balanced squad, an assaulty squad, a shooty squad. Bread and butter have never been so boring. It waters down the tactical aspect of the game, and simplifies it past the point of requiring simplification.
One of the reasons I play Tau is that they're one of the armies that specifically defy this convention.
Anyway, not trying to start an argument or anything, just putting forth the opinion that the LAST thing I want to see DE become is "fragile Space Marines with pointy ears."
You guys are kidding right? The fact that the Lelith model is moving in more dimensions, that flesh is harder to sculpt the supple muscle movement, that Lelith has normally proportioned weapons that look good, and she doesn't have horns jutting out of her head that look tacked on with bluetac......
You guys are kidding right? The fact that the Lelith model is moving in more dimensions, that flesh is harder to sculpt the supple muscle movement, that Lelith has normally proportioned weapons that look good, and she doesn't have horns jutting out of her head that look tacked on with bluetac......
Well everyone has an opinion, including me
Yeah, those horns are a bit wonky, and the front leg isn't set right for balance with her torso.
Awesome stuff... especially likes the Bikes and Barges. I could definitely see myself getting an army based around these and converting all the swords to look like cutlasses and putting some jolly rogers up.
The new DE warriors are really good. If I was going to play DE (which I don't plan to) I would cut off the knee spikey thing. Those spikes are too big. I think they got the spikes right on the Lelith character...spikey...but not toooo spikey. Same goes with the helmets the spikes are a bit "too, too" on some of the helmets. Escpecially disliek the "picklehauser" helmet they show there(the purple one).
Overall, I like the new models, but I would have to cut off some of the over the top spikes to make them to my taste.
Anybody know if the basic DE Warrior will still be BS4? It looks like the basic squad will still have a Dark Lance option. Not worried about it being overpowered, rather, kinda dull. Since the inception of the DE, I've really only seen one type of build: how many Dark Lances can I fit into the army. At least BS 3 may rethink the DE option (or a pay a premium for Dark Lances).
Nick Ellingworth wrote:Some nice details of the design process in today's blog post on the GW website.
The full squad picture in particular looks good.
Sorry if this stuff has already been posted I can't keep up with this thread.
I wonder if we're going to need pages with pictures to know which guns are which.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SaintHazard wrote: In any case, I always worry when people suggest that every race have a Tactical Squad-equivalent, an Assault Squad-equivalent, and a Devastato Squad-equivalent... as if Tac, Dev, and Assault squads are the end-all be-all of military tactica.
Some races have been moving towards this (though, to be fair, many have moved away since RT days), including CSM (CSM, Raptors, and Havocs), Eldar (Dire Avengers, Banshees, and Reapers), and Necrons (Warriors, Flayed Ones, and Immortals (kind of)). Same formula throughout - a balanced squad, an assaulty squad, a shooty squad.
One of the reasons I play Tau is that they're one of the armies that specifically defy this convention.
Fundamentally, based on 40k games being Movement, Shooting, and Assault to take Objectives, I think every army boils down to having something that Moves models quickly, something for the Shooting Phase, something for the Assault Phase, and something cheap enough and durable to hold Objectives. The idea that an army will succeed without having all four of the above in some combination is somewhat flawed.
CSM only recently got Raptors. Eldar had Avengers/Guardians; Scorpions/Banshees; Reapers/Hawks for their trifecta. Necrons and Tau were developed at a time in which Assault wasn't important, so they don't really have Assault options; Necrons suffered for basically only having Tacticals, BTW.
I think you're going to be disappointed in the next Tau book, because your Devilfish & Fire Warriors are almost certainly going to see assault specialists and heavy weapons specialists grafted on to bring the unit count up. I'd expect variant sprues with different weapons, building off the basic FW like a basic SM.
They look 100x better than the old models they are replacing.
Raider (with those cool sails): The sails add a 'pirate-y' touch. An improvement on the old design.
Wyches: So much better; 1- they are plastic; 2- they look so much better; 3- they are compatible with other DE plastic sets (and some Eldar)
Lelith: Looks a hell of a lot better (the old model looked )
Incubi: Look amazing, cool swords BUT they have a 'Tzeentch-ey' feel with the horns. I hope they are plastic.
Reaver Jetbikes: Look better than the old ones (an angular echo of the Eldar ones)
Warriors: They are fantastic; better than I had hoped for. Cool new design and a compatiblity with other Dark Eldar/Eldar kits is a massive plus.
Archon: To be fair; given how awful the old/current model looks the design team did not need to try hard. But rather than just doing better they have made a fantastic model which fits the new incubi perfectly.
Well that's just my opinion.
I am also overjoyed about harelquin's being in the new codex.
aka_mythos wrote:The simple fact is Scourges are a bit of a contradiction of function. In their current form they have two high price pieces of equipment, their weapon and their jump pack. The two are each used to the exclusion of the other. Making them over priced and rather ineffectual as a heavy support choice while simultaneously inappropriate in a hypothetical fast attack position.
So they either need new rules or some way for the player to choose to accentuate one of the two over the other.
I don't know how reliable the source is, but I have heard that Scourges will have the Relentless USR.
Jump-packing move & fire heavy weapon squads seem like they might be pretty darn good, as long as the points cost isn't too exorbitant.
JohnHwangDD wrote:I wonder if we're going to need pages with pictures to know which guns are which.
While there will most likely be pictures in the codex, we don't really need them.
The Front row 2nd from the right is a Splinter Cannon, the Pistol is most likely a Splinter Pistol, Front Row 2nd from the left is a Blaster (or the new Melta/Lance thingy) and the rest are Splinter Rifles.
Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Is there a seperate thread for the new rules at all please.
Sorry but the (inevitable and justified) plaudits are now tedious to wade through for info.
I started one - but it was locked by mods because they told me it would be more confusing to have another thread open for rules than it would be to have it in 15+ pages of various discussions.
Maybe it was to early, but now I started a new one with a summary.
Here another tdbit about the sculptors:
The dark eldar are just amazing, Thanks Mr Goodwin for it. From a conversation I had with him there were more sculptors involved in the project (although Jes was the sole creator of the concepts and the main drive for it).
Jes Goodwin: all the concept art plus warriors, wytches, Incubi, Archon, 3d mock-up for the Raider and 3d mock-up for the Jetbike
Alex Hedström: computer generated Jetbike sprue
Oliver Norman, Tom Walton, Dale Stringer: computer generated Raider and infantry weaponry
Aly Morrison: computer generated crew for the Raider, based in Jes´warriors
Farmer wrote:problem is that model looks better then lileth imo...
Well, we're all entitled to our own opinions. Personally, in comparison, I find the PP model to be static and awkward in it's positioning. I find the PP model to be lacking in elegance, and really don't like the hunched over position of the upper body. I also find the sculpting of the face on the Lelith model to be superior; much more realistically feminine. The body on the GW mini shows better muscle definition on exposed body parts, too, all the way down to the sculpted definition of the quadriceps muscle at the upper end near the pelvis.
The only similarity between the two is that the both happen to be standing on an angled scenic base.
At last the Dark Eldar look evil and twisted these are some of the best Gw figures I have seen in a long time 2010 is proving to be a expensive one for me as these just went top of my must have list.
Farmer wrote:problem is that model looks better then lileth imo...
Well, we're all entitled to our own opinions. Personally, in comparison, I find the PP model to be static and awkward in it's positioning. I find the PP model to be lacking in elegance, and really don't like the hunched over position of the upper body. I also find the sculpting of the face on the Lelith model to be superior; much more realistically feminine. The body on the GW mini shows better muscle definition on exposed body parts, too, all the way down to the sculpted definition of the quadriceps muscle at the upper end near the pelvis.
The only similarity between the two is that the both happen to be standing on an angled scenic base.
Yep. Kinda looks like the singer from the Yeah Yeah Yeahs. That hair-in-face thing is pretty silly. First moment of non-love for the DE I've had yet.
I'm loving the stabilizer vanes on the lance, like the ones on the Craftworld Eldar ranger longrifles or the War Walker. This makes me think of another source of bitz for kitbashing with DE... Eldar vehicles. Offer of firstborn child to first person to post pics of cross-range bitz compatibility has been extended to include a kidney for anyone with the Raider sprue who can show scale next to Warwalker bitz.
JohnHwangDD wrote:Fundamentally, based on 40k games being Movement, Shooting, and Assault to take Objectives, I think every army boils down to having something that Moves models quickly, something for the Shooting Phase, something for the Assault Phase, and something cheap enough and durable to hold Objectives. The idea that an army will succeed without having all four of the above in some combination is somewhat flawed.
CSM only recently got Raptors. Eldar had Avengers/Guardians; Scorpions/Banshees; Reapers/Hawks for their trifecta. Necrons and Tau were developed at a time in which Assault wasn't important, so they don't really have Assault options; Necrons suffered for basically only having Tacticals, BTW.
I think you're going to be disappointed in the next Tau book, because your Devilfish & Fire Warriors are almost certainly going to see assault specialists and heavy weapons specialists grafted on to bring the unit count up. I'd expect variant sprues with different weapons, building off the basic FW like a basic SM.
I don't quite agree with this assessment, and I'll explain why. While I agree that Necrons suffer, I do think there are some potentially competitive armies out there (maybe not top-tier, but if I can win with them, so can you) that do include Tau, and, notably, Orks.
Let's examine Tau and Orks for a moment. Neither of these really have the equivalent of Tactical, Devastator, and Assault Marines. Orks have Boyz, which fit the bill for numbers one and three (assuming you're not taking Stormboyz), and Lootaz, which roughly fill position number two, but when your Devastators are armed with nothing but autocannons and your tacticals are tooled for assault, you defy the archetype. Tau, likewise, have their "Tacticals" built like "Beefed Up Tacticals" mixed with a bit of devastator when you consider that their basic infantry weapons can pop transports. Not easily, but that's where you factor in the volume of fire that makes Tau so deadly. Both Orks and Tau specialize instead of being an all-around well-balanced army like Eldar or Space Marines, and I love them for it. Even IG is more well-rounded (despite having very little that can assault without using a blob for that sole purpose) than Tau or Orks. And yet I win with both on a regular basis. I'm not saying that you're wrong, who knows, maybe in the next Tau codex I'll be seeing Devastators and Assault Marines, but honestly I like them just the way they are, and I think they can be competitive without doing the Space Marine thing. And honestly, so can Dark Eldar.
And now I just realized I wrote an entire paragraph on why Tau and Orks are awesome in a thread about Dark Eldar.
I apologize. Probably best to take this discussion to PMs. Feel free to do that if you'd like, JHDD.
On topic, Gwar!, the fact that you were waffling back and forth between two pieces of wargear and had a "probably" in there tells us that we may well need some pictures to tell us what's what after all.
I'd be very surprised, given the overall redesign of the line, if weapon descriptions and pics were not in the new codex. I can only say for certainty what the splinter rifle and pistol are...the rest is suspect.
And the "no topknots on the new Dark Eldar and that's good because I hate topknots" people are conspicuously silent or try to pretend they never said it. It matters knot (pun intended), the miniatures are great looking as expected from Jes Goodwin.
Well, one thing is for certain. DE are reborn and the model line is spectacular. The only thing left now is the codex and to see how they will play. While it's easy to hope the DE will now ravage existing armies, ala SW, BA, IG etc., I really would rather hope for a well balanced codex with the option to field various lists. That is yet to be seen but I can hope.
Sarigar wrote:Anybody know if the basic DE Warrior will still be BS4? It looks like the basic squad will still have a Dark Lance option. Not worried about it being overpowered, rather, kinda dull. Since the inception of the DE, I've really only seen one type of build: how many Dark Lances can I fit into the army. At least BS 3 may rethink the DE option (or a pay a premium for Dark Lances).
Actually, that build didn't really become a big deal until 5th edition when all the other builds became non-competitive.
I'm wondering where the smaller GW retail stores in the US are going to fit all these new miniatures on the shelves. For years now they've not had to worry about it with the range being Direct Only in the US. That's about to change as it appears there are quite a few box sets coming for Dark Eldar. The shelf arrangements are tight already with all the new sets that have come out for other armies over the past few years. I wonder what items if any might get cut from the shelves to make room. I suppose if they've managed to cram all that plus Dark Eldar onto shelves in small stores outside the US all these years it will work here too, but it will be interesting to see how the jigsaw puzzle gets rearranged again.
oni wrote:I had nothing but contempt for the DE and refused to even acknowledge them, but these new models = love at first sight.
I think I may have some issues.
QFT - I am right there with you. I am already thinking about potential conversions and kit-bashes (I am a converting maniac) I need a break from my Nids, and though that was going to be Chaos, I just wasn't feeling it. I am sure feeling these models though... hopefully I can hold back from buying to much at once, and get burned out on them too!
Sarigar wrote:Anybody know if the basic DE Warrior will still be BS4? It looks like the basic squad will still have a Dark Lance option. Not worried about it being overpowered, rather, kinda dull. Since the inception of the DE, I've really only seen one type of build: how many Dark Lances can I fit into the army. At least BS 3 may rethink the DE option (or a pay a premium for Dark Lances).
Actually, that build didn't really become a big deal until 5th edition when all the other builds became non-competitive.
Not saying when it became a big deal. Just stating that's pretty much the only build I've ever seen played since it first came out. I've seen a few folks test the Wych Cult when that came out, but quickly abandoned it for the DL spam list.
JohnHwangDD wrote:I wonder if we're going to need pages with pictures to know which guns are which.
While there will most likely be pictures in the codex, we don't really need them.
The Front row 2nd from the right is a Splinter Cannon, the Pistol is most likely a Splinter Pistol, Front Row 2nd from the left is a Blaster (or the new Melta/Lance thingy) and the rest are Splinter Rifles.
Obviously, we do.
What you've labeled as a Splinter Cannon shares the aesthetics of former Lance weaponry(as well as that of the Dark lance on the new Raider) and is more likely the Infantry version of the Dark lance. As for the "Splinter Pistol", look again at the barrel vs the barrel of the Blaster/Special. Clearly a pistol version of the Blaster/Special Weapon of the squad.
JohnHwangDD wrote:Fundamentally, based on 40k games being Movement, Shooting, and Assault to take Objectives, I think every army boils down to having something that Moves models quickly, something for the Shooting Phase, something for the Assault Phase, and something cheap enough and durable to hold Objectives.
I don't quite agree with this assessment, and I'll explain why. While I agree that Necrons suffer, I do think there are some potentially competitive armies out there (maybe not top-tier, but if I can win with them, so can you) that do include Tau, and, notably, Orks.
And now I just realized I wrote an entire paragraph on why Tau and Orks are awesome in a thread about Dark Eldar.
I apologize. Probably best to take this discussion to PMs. Feel free to do that if you'd like, JHDD.
All good. Start a new thread on it?
____
BrassScorpion wrote:And the "no topknots on the new Dark Eldar and that's good because I hate topknots" people are conspicuously silent or try to pretend they never said it. It matters knot (pun intended), the miniatures are great looking as expected from Jes Goodwin.
The minis are nice, despite the topknots. The saving grace of topknots is that they are easily cut off.
Although Emo-boy is pretty inexcusable. That said, we're going to see Wyches with only that head, with sleeveless arms, and massed "cuttings" going "across the street"...
JohnHwangDD wrote:I wonder if we're going to need pages with pictures to know which guns are which.
While there will most likely be pictures in the codex, we don't really need them.
The Front row 2nd from the right is a Splinter Cannon, the Pistol is most likely a Splinter Pistol, Front Row 2nd from the left is a Blaster (or the new Melta/Lance thingy) and the rest are Splinter Rifles.
JohnHwangDD wrote:I wonder if we're going to need pages with pictures to know which guns are which.
While there will most likely be pictures in the codex, we don't really need them.
The Front row 2nd from the right is a Splinter Cannon, the Pistol is most likely a Splinter Pistol, Front Row 2nd from the left is a Blaster (or the new Melta/Lance thingy) and the rest are Splinter Rifles.
IMHO that weapon that you call Splinter Cannon is actually a Dark Lance, it looks the same than the weapon in the Raider.. In the Warriors sprue we can see a weapon that looks like a thicker Splinter Rifle. I think that's the Splinter Cannon. And that Splinter Pistol differs from the Wych version
I am totally debating getting a few Raiders to make a Dark Elf Corsair Raiding ship. I mean hell...they even give you sails. If they didn't want me to do this, they shouldn't have made it so easy.
JohnHwangDD wrote:I wonder if we're going to need pages with pictures to know which guns are which.
While there will most likely be pictures in the codex, we don't really need them.
The Front row 2nd from the right is a Splinter Cannon, the Pistol is most likely a Splinter Pistol, Front Row 2nd from the left is a Blaster (or the new Melta/Lance thingy) and the rest are Splinter Rifles.
IMHO that weapon that you call Splinter Cannon is actually a Dark Lance, it looks the same than the weapon in the Raider.. In the Warriors sprue we can see a weapon that looks like a thicker Splinter Rifle. I think that's the Splinter Cannon. And that Splinter Pistol differs from the Wych version
Edit: ok, I'm the third voting for Dark Lance
Additionally, the second "special weapon" in that squad may be a Shredder, as there appears to be some sort of mono-filament vanes showing.
Can't really tell too much from the angle being displayed though....unless they have changed the look fo the Blaster this time around.
I'm curious as to what the Sybarites can take as wargear though....
Farmer wrote:problem is that model looks better then lileth imo...
Well, we're all entitled to our own opinions. Personally, in comparison, I find the PP model to be static and awkward in it's positioning. I find the PP model to be lacking in elegance, and really don't like the hunched over position of the upper body. I also find the sculpting of the face on the Lelith model to be superior; much more realistically feminine. The body on the GW mini shows better muscle definition on exposed body parts, too, all the way down to the sculpted definition of the quadriceps muscle at the upper end near the pelvis.
The only similarity between the two is that the both happen to be standing on an angled scenic base.
Amaya wrote:It takes a certain kind of person to want his thin, muscular woman warriors to have DDs.
I have to agree on this i think.
Oh and what i just noticed. I think the Dark Eldar Warrior (front rank right) has a prussian inspired helmet .
Am i the only one seeing the "Pickelhaube" thing there?
This does not mean i dont like them.. it just made me laugh a little.
Red Corsair wrote:I agree, I am glad people are as excited as I am but come on guys, if you don't have any info to add please try to resist the "Oh my god I now have to buy these....gonna be broke til next summer!....bleep blorp" crap comments....
Oh they must of forgot that your the only one allowed to post your thoughts on the Dark Eldar.
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Amaya wrote:Anything about Haemonculi or Grotesques?
Or whether or not Wych Cult and Kabal are seperate armies?
Well there were those pics that were dropped awhile ago at a french games day or something along those lines that were still in GS. If those really were Haemonculi then they will look super badass.
You do realise that Lileth has her Awesome Boobage (yay Heavy Metal) taped down? You know, like almost every other female warrior sect in existence from ye olde times?
CT GAMER wrote:That being said, the chaos vibe is a little heavy though, or is it just me?
I think the chaos vibe is okay. Whereas a CSM wakes up one morning and discovers he's grown horns or collects skulls because he's a psychotic nutjob, I'd like to think these Incubi have modelled their armour on the Chaos look on purpose in order to intimidate their enemies.
I was rather under the impression that CSM did the same thing for the same reason.
"BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD" isn't just a fun thing to shout, it, like all warcries, is designed to be intimidating.
I never complained about the topknots, but can I propose a moritorium on painting the hair or any model with a bone going through it the same color as Pebbles Flintstone's?
Except that model looks like she is checking the time, lileth looks like shes considering gouging your eyes or slitting your throat.
Its clear which one is the better model.
A Black Ram wrote:Wow, I might actually buy these. I know I will get alot of comments about this, but I'd prefer the old warriors and mandrakes.
Awesome update indeed.
Nah I'm all for it, I've got 1500 points of the old school stuff, I've been kicking ass with them for about a year now, so I'm going to mix it up a bit and add more units, but I'm not planning to replace anything.
The army has earned its stripes so I'll keep my favorite squads.
A fakking huge pile of awesome - GeeDub just made themselves millions of dollars, I reckon. Chaos Eldar ftw
As to Lelith, love the face and that she's barefoot, but honestly her lack of bust is disappointing. I get that her girls are sensibly strapped in for combat and I'm not endorsing the usual 'heroic scale boobs' that inevitably happen, I just would have liked a touch more - as it stands my first look at the model sans caption literally had me lamenting that such nice facial sculpting was lost on an apparently castrated male witch figure
So I'll join the group waiting for the reverse shot until passing judgment
OK, so Jes just made the best dark elf army ever! No really, those incubi will make great executioners. I hate most of the current dark elf miniatures, but mixing and matching bits, I bet these will make great dark elves! magnets and I'll have two armies.
I love the new raider. The sail doesn't bother me in the least. I'm glad you can actually put models on th thing now.
Those incubi are amazing, and I plan on buying a box for possible slanneshimarine conversions. That lelith model really made me look twice. Very hawt. I like big hair
It's not that she's strapped down. Athletic women typically have small breasts. Her torso resembles a man more than a womans. She's packed with muscle in comparison to everything except Nobs, Catachans, and Marines.
imo, she looks awesome and will serve as the HQ of my army.
Boss Salvage wrote:A fakking huge pile of awesome - GeeDub just made themselves millions of dollars, I reckon. Chaos Eldar ftw
As to Lelith, love the face and that she's barefoot, but honestly her lack of bust is disappointing. I get that her girls are sensibly strapped in for combat and I'm not endorsing the usual 'heroic scale boobs' that inevitably happen, I just would have liked a touch more - as it stands my first look at the model sans caption literally had me lamenting that such nice facial sculpting was lost on an apparently castrated male witch figure
So I'll join the group waiting for the reverse shot until passing judgment
Dude, they're Elves. It's _supposed_ to be hard to tell the males from the females. And the view from behind ain't gonna do nothing but confuse ya, Boss.
On second thought, maybe the emo hair man-girl IS okay in this army.
All that said, most really athletic women don't look like Barbie, guys. In fact, most of them are not what you would call a "sub-3-beer-woman".
Aduro wrote:And what's with you peoples obsession with chests and boobage?
*kicks a stray skull, grumbles about being a fan of smaller boobs*
I suppose I just like my lady models to have lady parts. Bully on the sculptor - Jes too? - for kicking ass all the same.
Savnock wrote:Dude, they're Elves. It's _supposed_ to be hard to tell the males from the females. And the view from behind ain't gonna do nothing but confuse ya, Boss.
*vomits on self, befouling amniotic sarcophagus fluid*
Amaya wrote:Now, do Slaaneshi marines turn everyone on or everyone off?
Edit: Lelith wears minimal protection and long hair to piss her opponents off.
I'm sure it works wonders! She's the opposite of space marines! I wonder.....Would a space marine be able to resist her 'charms'
(I use charms in quotes for obvious reasons )
But, yeah, 1 week until pre orders, and I am giving up Rum for this week so I can buy the DE codex and some models, That is how awesome this is!
oh man, gak has gotten serious now.
That aside, I'm really liking the ties between Dark Eldar and their craft-world kin, i think it makes both model ranges much more awesome, (And can allow for some easy part swaps.)
And the final frame? Well there are enough parts to make 10 Kabalite Warriors. There are 6 male and 4 female torsos, 10 helmets, 5 bare heads [male and female], all the weapon options you need, parts for a couple of different Sybarites and lots of extras. The frame is cross compatible with the Wyches, other frames in the Dark Eldar range and even some of the Eldar plastics, plenty of scope for conversion and personalisation, so that none of your squads need be the same.
Aduro wrote:Lileth clearly has no Rack, much less a Great Rack, I was talking about Skarr. And what's with you peoples obsession with chests and boobage?
Skarr has a nice pair/rack but no ass though compaired to lileth but tbh lileth looks like a tranny anyways.
Amaya wrote:Now, do Slaaneshi marines turn everyone on or everyone off?
Edit: Lelith wears minimal protection and long hair to piss her opponents off.
I'm sure it works wonders! She's the opposite of space marines! I wonder.....Would a space marine be able to resist her 'charms'
(I use charms in quotes for obvious reasons )
Well if they keep the old rules Wyches will be rocking a sexy invul save in close combat. *crosses fingers for 3+ invul save for Lelith*
Aduro wrote:Lileth clearly has no Rack, much less a Great Rack, I was talking about Skarr. And what's with you peoples obsession with chests and boobage?
Skarr has a nice pair/rack but no ass though compaired to lileth but tbh lileth looks like a tranny anyways.
She does. It's a great model, and she looks hot... but she also looks a bit like a guy. I don't mean the muscular frame and the relatively small chest. There are plenty of super attractive women with similar frames. I mean the face. She looks like an attractive but not quite passable transvestite.
Still a kick ass model (although I don't care for the bare feet). Great pose and great detail. I'm a little confused though by all thses claims of "best model ever!". It's certainly a great model, but dynamic, well sculpted characters in interesting poses is certainly nothing new. Have a look at the Confrontation, PP and Infinity lines for proof.
I kind of assumed all of the, "best model ever!" was referring to Games Workshop. As in, the best model Games Workshop has ever produced. I would go as far as to agree with that, but no, it's not the best model I've ever seen.
beezley1981 wrote:I kind of assumed all of the, "best model ever!" was referring to Games Workshop. As in, the best model Games Workshop has ever produced. I would go as far as to agree with that, but no, it's not the best model I've ever seen.
I'm sure that's what most people meant, but I saw a poster that clearly didn't. Maybe these are people who have a "Games Workshop" hobby, instead of a gaming or modeling hobby?
Whatever though. It doesn't matter. It's a great model.
Hopefully from the looks of the minis the wyches have better than a 6+ save! Maybe they'll be able to survive to make a second assault now.
Glad all my raiders/ravagers are already fully sailed. Makes me feel like a trend setter (ha!).
Boss Salvage wrote:Bully on the sculptor - Jes too? - for kicking ass all the same.
Juan Diaz. Just more proof they need to let him do a plastic kit - Dark Elf Witches, perhaps? Or Repentia?
Did Juan Díaz sculpt Lelith? LOL that's odd, one of the things I like the better of that mini is that her face resembles A LOT the faces that Jes Goodwin draws in his sketches...
Well, we all seem to have the same oppinion that GW did a great job with the design of the models we've seen so far: Raiders, Warriors, Wyches, Archon, Reaver Jetbikes, Haemonculi.
How about the other models? Taloi, Hellions, etc.?
wuestenfux wrote:Well, we all seem to have the same oppinion that GW did a great job with the design of the models we've seen so far: Raiders, Warriors, Wyches, Archon, Reaver Jetbikes, Haemonculi.
How about the other models? Taloi, Hellions, etc.?
Boss Salvage wrote:Bully on the sculptor - Jes too? - for kicking ass all the same.
Juan Diaz. Just more proof they need to let him do a plastic kit - Dark Elf Witches, perhaps? Or Repentia?
Did Juan Díaz sculpt Lelith? LOL that's odd, one of the things I like the better of that mini is that her face resembles A LOT the faces that Jes Goodwin draws in his sketches...
I love Jes's sketches. And Jes and Juan's minis.
They've talked many times that Jes wasn't the only sculptor, but he was the "team manager", so to speak.
I would assume he oversaw the models from design to sculpt.
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Durzod wrote:Hopefully from the looks of the minis the wyches have better than a 6+ save! Maybe they'll be able to survive to make a second assault now.
Glad all my raiders/ravagers are already fully sailed. Makes me feel like a trend setter (ha!).
Rumor has it they will have feel no pain at that point, so that may help to some extent.
wuestenfux wrote:Well, we all seem to have the same oppinion that GW did a great job with the design of the models we've seen so far: Raiders, Warriors, Wyches, Archon, Reaver Jetbikes, Haemonculi.
How about the other models? Taloi, Hellions, etc.?
GW hasn't shown the new Haemonculi.
I remember a pic from the French Games Day two (or even three) years ago.
wuestenfux wrote:Well, we all seem to have the same oppinion that GW did a great job with the design of the models we've seen so far: Raiders, Warriors, Wyches, Archon, Reaver Jetbikes, Haemonculi.
How about the other models? Taloi, Hellions, etc.?
GW hasn't shown the new Haemonculi.
I remember a pic from the French Games Day two (or even three) years ago.
Do you mean the pic WhiteDragon has as an avatar? The Haemis sculpted by Juan Diaz more than 10 years ago? I think that minis are not likely to be published. I guess that Jes and the team have developed new versions.
wuestenfux wrote:Well, we all seem to have the same oppinion that GW did a great job with the design of the models we've seen so far: Raiders, Warriors, Wyches, Archon, Reaver Jetbikes, Haemonculi.
How about the other models? Taloi, Hellions, etc.?
GW hasn't shown the new Haemonculi.
I remember a pic from the French Games Day two (or even three) years ago.
Do you mean the pic WhiteDragon has as an avatar? The Haemis sculpted by Juan Diaz more than 10 years ago? I think that minis are not likely to be published. I guess that Jes and the team have developed new versions.
wuestenfux wrote:Didn't know that these pics were so old.
Pics aren't too old, they were taken from a showcase display were a lot of minis of Juan Díaz were shown in that Games Day, showing some moments of his career. But that minis do are that old (if we are talking about the same minis)
Yes, many people thought they were new. That's because here in Spain we saw that minis in a Spanish White Dwarf, in an article about Juan Díaz, who had been recently hired for the design team. He was a redshirt in GW Bilbao before that. The article shown a lot of test minis and prototypes by Juan (Haemonculi amongst others). I guess that article was published only in the Spanish version. So when a couple of years ago that minis appeared on a Games Day almost everyone out of Spain thought they were prototypes for the rumoured upcoming DE.
I wonder if the DE hanging off the raider's prow is an actual upgrade to DE Raiders or are simply meant to be crew and for show?
The big "pole arm weapon" might be to repel those who attempt to board (assault) or it might be an upgrade that prevents an enemy model from moving away, etc. or allow "fly by" attacks...
Wow, these are some really impressive models, Jes must have poured his heart and soul into each and every one and it shows. Sadly they still haven't really sold me on collecting DE, the look just isn't one that appeals to me but I may pick up a model or two to paint at some point down the line as well as a Raider to convert into a sail barge for my flash gitz.
Hope we get to see the Hellions soon, I need to know just how Green gobliny their rocket sleds are now.
I am totally in love with the new DE right now! The warriors are extremely well sculpted, and Lelith would most likely be the first model I buy! (seeing as I have 3 other armies, that might be the ONLY model I buy...)
Howard A Treesong wrote:I don't think much of the wyches. For some reason they ignored people's requests and have stuck a load of male figures in the box and then clad everyone in lots of modesty armour. They only look a bit less armoured than the warriors and the females don't look feminine.
That's what I though at first, but then seeing as on gw.com they said the warriors and wyche sprues are compatible, I'll just take the female torsos from the warriors and give them to the wyches.
Samus_aran115 wrote:Who cares about her rack? Look at that sweet metal thong! She must be a freak if she's got the fortitude to wear that out of the house
That's why I'm waiting to see the back of the model, before I judge the model as a whole.
CT GAMER wrote:I wonder if the above represents an actual upgrade to DE Raiders or are simply meant to be crew and for show?
The big "pole arm weapon" might be to repel those who attempt to board (assault) or it might be an upgrade that prevents an enemy model from moving away, etc. or allow "fly by" attacks...
Thoughts?
You mind editing your quote to remove the picture? For some reason the combination of picture + quote with scrollbars is really screwing with my browser when I scroll by.
In fact, can we quit quoting pictures? They're already in the thread, you don't need to be creating quote walls with pictures we've already seen three times.
Wow, very nice minis. I am going to have to pick up Lilith just to paint, and possibly some wytches for some nefarious and ill defined purpose (like sitting in my bits closet "just in case")
Interesting. The "tears" are quite cool, though I cannot imagine the Wyches and Lelith embodying bith and rebirth. Good thing they don't have woman-junk as big as Dawn.
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:Good thing they don't have woman-junk as big as Dawn.
I wish they did. These wyches look terribly masculine. I'll be passing on them. There goes my idea for a beautiful wych army.
You are the reason why people think Wargamers are weird you know...
They look perfectly fine for how MAGICAL SPACE ELVES WHO LEAP ABOUT A LOT are supposed to look.
So, just because they don't have Boobage rivalling the Heavy Metal chick, you don't like them?
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SaintHazard wrote:
Scott_K wrote:I wish they did. These wyches look terribly masculine. I'll be passing on them. There goes my idea for a beautiful wych army.
I dare you to find me a pretty, well-endowed warrior woman who isn't a product of Hollywood nonsense (a la Xena).
Those Wyches are perfect.
Exactly.
Even the ones who DID have large Boobage taped them down to stop them flapping about all over the place (in real combat anyway, not things like the Colosseum in Rome).
Don't kid yourself. There's nothing wrong with appreciating the aesthetic beauty of the female of the species. To me, these models do not fall into this category. Quite frankly, they look like a bunch of "shims", so I'll pass
Feel free to shell out your money for them, though. I'd rather spend my money buying the old, metal Dark Elf witches and Slaanesh daemonettes
But Scott...this is how Athletic women actually look. Have you never seen the Olympics? Breast tissue isn't disimilar to fat, so the leaner a woman gets, the smaller her breasts.
Really, all the people complaining about how the female dark elves don't have the chest they wanted... just use some green stuff. Seriously... it's not that hard.
I'd also like to add that I think these models are really quite well done and I'll be collecting my own small strike force as well just for good measure.
Mr Mystery wrote:But Scott...this is how Athletic women actually look. Have you never seen the Olympics? Breast tissue isn't disimilar to fat, so the leaner a woman gets, the smaller her breasts.
Come on, Mr. Mystery... of course I've seen the olympics. I'm 39 years old, and I've been happily married for 16 years. Hell, my son is 19... which is probably older than most of you are
I simply have no hang-ups about admitting that I don't find these models attractive
But they aren't meant to be models in that sense. Proper Models wear clothes and that, these are bits of plastic? You really shouldn't be finding them attractive?
Scott_K wrote:I simply have no hang-ups about admitting that I don't find these models attractive
To each his own
We'd have bigger issues if you found the models *attractive.*
My point is that they're believable.
Sisters of Battle aren't attractive, either. Properly done they're rather scarred up and sometimes somewhat manly looking. But that's what fighting women look like.
Apparently they drew alot of inspiration from Jabba the Hut when it came to their Raiders. Oh fething joy.
Only thing that looks cool are the Jet Bikes really. A marked improvement. The Incubi are not bad, but considering I already have twenty of the original. they are irrelevant.
Scott_K wrote:I simply have no hang-ups about admitting that I don't find these models attractive
To each his own
We'd have bigger issues if you found the models *attractive.*
My point is that they're believable.
Sisters of Battle aren't attractive, either. Properly done they're rather scarred up and sometimes somewhat manly looking. But that's what fighting women look like.
Realism > FANTASY BEWBS, in my opinion.
Exactly. Space Nunz Who actually fight are going to be scared up and battle worn. What you are not going to find are Supermodels.
Scott_K wrote:I simply have no hang-ups about admitting that I don't find these models attractive
To each his own
We'd have bigger issues if you found the models *attractive.*
My point is that they're believable.
Sisters of Battle aren't attractive, either. Properly done they're rather scarred up and sometimes somewhat manly looking. But that's what fighting women look like.
Realism > FANTASY BEWBS, in my opinion.
Exactly. Space Nunz Who actually fight are going to be scared up and battle worn. What you are not going to find are Supermodels.
I'm curious if that is something that you have verified with info from Jes/Juan, or if it's an assumption on your part. Frankly, the only similarity I see is the red hair and eye makeup. Lelith's hair is significantly longer, the clothing between the two is wholly dissimilar, and the body shape is different.
Upon closer inspection, the eye make-up isn't even similar. The painted Lelith is wearing facepaint under her left eye, while Dawn appears to have running mascara.
oh well...).
)
at the time, I collected 
