JohnHwangDD wrote:

Whatever1 wrote:Another issue is that with Apocalypse and GW more formally embracing giant size mini's,it's very hard to justify in terms of scale a Talos or Wraithlord having T7-8 when something like a Hierophant Bio-Titan is T9.

Grenades are not terribly effective against walkers,but they at least give the unit a chance. The combat is not already decided before it even starts.

40k is a game built around an element of chance to enhance most people's enjoyment of the game.

Nids aren't Eldar tough, much less Necron tough. Deal with it.

And yet, so much else is. The model is more than X" away = ZERO chance to shoot / charge. Tank shock regular IG armed only with Lasguns. Why shouldn't uber models just grind away? And who knows, maybe the MC whiffs and they just stare at each other.

Odd. I though 40k was built around tactics.

How do you figure that? By a quick count,the Tyranid 'dex has 27 entries with T4+ and only 6 with T3-(Spore Mines,Gargoyles,Sky-Slashers,Termagants,Hormagaunts,and Ripper Swarms). T3 is pretty much the standard for Eldar accross the board. Eldar are not suppossed to be tough. They are suppossed to be quick and agile. In the case of the Necrons,T8 is understandable for the C'tan. They are gods,after all,but even in their case,rumors have been that the C'tan may be dropped from the next Necron codex and they will become Apocalypse scale models.

SIGH...it should be apparent with the introduction of Apocalypse and the fact that they are scaling down the T stat on monstrous creatures that GW is redefining what an uber model is.

It's built around tactics. It's also built around list building and die luck,too. The designers have always had the element of chance involved. Otherwise,as I said,you're just playing chess with expensive pieces.

Methinks that your problem really has more to do with the impending nerf the Wraithlord has coming than anything else,however.

They usually didn't do battleforces for things like BT, BA, DA, etc just generic armies.

They might do one after the AO time period... it might be wise just to get the codex at first and plan it out. But yes its going up tuesday and then 4 weeks from then is released. I may actually **BUY** a WD for the first time in about 8 years if they have decent painting articles in it about DE.

Whatever1 wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Whatever1 wrote:Another issue is that with Apocalypse and GW more formally embracing giant size mini's,it's very hard to justify in terms of scale a Talos or Wraithlord having T7-8 when something like a Hierophant Bio-Titan is T9.

Grenades are not terribly effective against walkers,but they at least give the unit a chance. The combat is not already decided before it even starts.

40k is a game built around an element of chance to enhance most people's enjoyment of the game.

Nids aren't Eldar tough, much less Necron tough. Deal with it.

And yet, so much else is. The model is more than X" away = ZERO chance to shoot / charge. Tank shock regular IG armed only with Lasguns. Why shouldn't uber models just grind away? And who knows, maybe the MC whiffs and they just stare at each other.

Odd. I though 40k was built around tactics.

How do you figure that? By a quick count,the Tyranid 'dex has 27 entries with T4+ and only 6 with T3-(Spore Mines,Gargoyles,Sky-Slashers,Termagants,Hormagaunts,and Ripper Swarms). T3 is pretty much the standard for Eldar accross the board. Eldar are not suppossed to be tough. They are suppossed to be quick and agile. In the case of the Necrons,T8 is understandable for the C'tan. They are gods,after all,but even in their case,rumors have been that the C'tan may be dropped from the next Necron codex and they will become Apocalypse scale models.

SIGH...it should be apparent with the introduction of Apocalypse and the fact that they are scaling down the T stat on monstrous creatures that GW is redefining what an uber model is.

It's built around tactics. It's also built around list building and die luck,too. The designers have always had the element of chance involved. Otherwise,as I said,you're just playing chess with expensive pieces.

Methinks that your problem really has more to do with the impending nerf the Wraithlord has coming than anything else,however.

I don't think he actually is talking about the codex stats......

I think that he means Nids (if you think of them as a real thing ) are not as tough (because they are all fleshy) as something like the Wraithlord that is made of whatever its made from (its not fleshy.....)

Samus_aran115 wrote:

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:I want a dark eldar megaforce!!!! That would be amazing

what the hell would you put in it? There aren't enough 'big' models that could fill up a megaforce. Look at the chaos one. A defiler, a land raider, a terminator unit, 2 rhinos, 2 units of CSM and a terminator lord. I think there's more also.

There's really no DE equivalent to that, except possibly 5 raiders, 2 ravagers,a talos, 4 warrior units and some other stuff. Although that IS a good idea, it doesn't really warrant a megaforce.

I think that just means that GW needs to make a dark eldar titan and put it in the megaforce.

My biggest fear for the Dark Eldar Codex is that they'll make Raiders cheaper without otherwise changing them. The main tactic DE players use now is Raider spam, and it's stupidly effective. If Raiders get cheaper, who really cares what else is in the book? Just spam even More Raiders. Unless of course everything in the book was made that much better to compete with cheap Raider, making for a super broken book.

Talk of Raiders actually getting a tad more expensive but gaining other bonuses to compensate actually make me feel better about the release.

From what's been said about the raider, it seems to be getting better. So my guess is its either marginally pricier or the same.

We already know they're more expensive. Wasn't someone talking about them being 70 points base now? Though the rumor of them not coming with a dark lance base was disproven I believe? So yea, they're considerably more expensive.

But the things they carry are considerably more deadly now too. A basic troop choice with ranged, poisoned weapons for example? And no one knows if Warriors are still 8pts a piece.

It's possible they just offset the raider some to make up for a significantly better troop selection.

Nvs wrote:We already know they're more expensive.

Reading that, I thought you meant the Models, and I was getting ready to go convert to Malifaux, Warmachine and Hordes.

Can't wait for the Dark Eldar; what are you guys doing Painting-Wise?

chaos0xomega wrote:Was there a blood angels battleforce? Someone told me that GW was ending the whole battleforce thing.

Yes there is a Blood Angels battleforce... In fact there's a battleforce for every SM chapter. It's called the "Space Marine Battleforce.". . . Not sure how you missed it.

Popsicle wrote:Can't wait for the Dark Eldar; what are you guys doing Painting-Wise?

If I decide to pick up 40k again, I'll paint my new DE very similar to how my current DE are painted. I think their new design accommodates my paint scheme better than the old one. With the Raiders, I'll have to modify the front skull so the lower jaw covers that new jutting triangle thing, but it should translate nicely.

chaos0xomega wrote:Was there a blood angels battleforce? Someone told me that GW was ending the whole battleforce thing.

Oshova wrote:No there wasn't one. They don't cost much more to produce, and are an easy way to start an army. So I don't know why they would stop doing them. Random.

Oshova

Sure there was. It's called the Space Marine Battleforce.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:I'll be able to give more specific information (FOC stuff, etc) when I sneak another look tomorrow - for now I'm relying on my shaky memory to dredge up information that I was honestly a bit too drunk to appreciate with anything but excitement and wonder.

Please! did you managed to sneak that look?

Personally I´m dying to know something about the new warp beasts and grotesques, the most uneldar units. Both looking and rule wise.

Most people in the know are not aware of any battle force release in the near future, certainly not this year.

puma713 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:Was there a blood angels battleforce? Someone told me that GW was ending the whole battleforce thing.

Oshova wrote:No there wasn't one. They don't cost much more to produce, and are an easy way to start an army. So I don't know why they would stop doing them. Random.

Oshova

Sure there was. It's called the Space Marine Battleforce.

As opposed to the Space Wolves that had their OWN Battleforce?

Don't forget the Ravenwing. A sub force of a sub chapter but which still got it's own battleforce.

chaos0xomega wrote:As opposed to the Space Wolves that had their OWN Battleforce?

Space Wolves have a very specific Troop choice boxed set, and those sprues include bits to modify Scouts. Blood Angels do not, Black Templars do not. Ravenwing, from what I can tell, have specific biker models that form their Troop units.

That's why Blood Angels didn't have a boxed set, the way I see it. Their were no core choices to justify boxing them together.

Whereas Daemons had no boxed set because half their troop choices (at the time) were metal, and most of the rest of their models were as well.

I don't see any reason why Dark Eldar WOULDN'T get a boxed set, personally, unless GW were phasing them out... Which I hope they aren't. They're a very nice deal, and an easy way to entice people into starting the hobby...

Kamsm8 wrote:They're a very nice deal

That's why they phase them out, because it means less money for them.

I hope they do get a battleforce. DE will be one of the first armies in a very long time that I would actually purchase one for.

Usually, I reject Battleforces because I play such niche forces that the battleforces are useless to me.

Im just jumping into this thread to post some info I found on DE. You may know it already?

Posted this weekend by Maelstrom Games:

The final bit of news we have for you this week is a big one. Come November, and after nearly twelve years of waiting, the piratical Dark Eldar will finally be released!

Maybe not a big surprise but I know now when they're popping up. NOVEMBER = DE.

Enjoy.. *runs away from thread, into the sunshine*

Aduro wrote:My biggest fear for the Dark Eldar Codex is that they'll make Raiders cheaper without otherwise changing them. The main tactic DE players use now is Raider spam, and it's stupidly effective. If Raiders get cheaper, who really cares what else is in the book? Just spam even More Raiders. Unless of course everything in the book was made that much better to compete with cheap Raider, making for a super broken book.

Talk of Raiders actually getting a tad more expensive but gaining other bonuses to compensate actually make me feel better about the release.

I agree with you to some degree, but think of this, now that wyches and warriors are troops as standard regardless of general choice, you can only raider spam with 6 of these units as 10 man squads, where as before you could manage 9 of those 10 man squads because of the elite slot. Granted you will possibly be able to slot in incubi to fill the elite raider slot BUT they will undoubtedly be much more expensive and means the raider spam list won't number as many models as it once could.

Just something to keep in mind.

Kroothawk wrote:Most people in the know are not aware of any battle force release in the near future, certainly not this year.

Then they're full of crap. Everything I've heard points towards a battleforce release for the first wave, in November/December.

chaos0xomega wrote:Was there a blood angels battleforce? Someone told me that GW was ending the whole battleforce thing.

This is something that was ridiculously misinterpreted. GW was ending army boxes, not battleforces or battalions.

Aduro wrote:
Don't forget the Ravenwing. A sub force of a sub chapter but which still got its own battleforce.

Because the Ravenwing models are very different to the standard Space Marine models.

I'm still kinda surprised there's no Deathwing battleforce.

Kanluwen wrote:This is something that was ridiculously misinterpreted. GW was ending army boxes, not battleforces or battalions.

The rumour came from reds8n, and it was long after the end of the (failed) Spearhead experiment.

Okay?

I'm 99.99% sure that it's still people misinterpreting a statement.

Kanluwen wrote:I'm still kinda surprised there's no Deathwing battleforce.

Because there's no Deathwing sprue, and the only Deathwing specific parts are a few shoulder pads, a Storm Bolter, a Power Sword, a set of legs and an Assault Cannon - all located on a sprue full of Power Armour Marines. A Deathwing Battle Force would just be a big box of Terminators - probably 15-25 of them, or maybe 15 and a Dread and Land Raider - but nothing that screams "Deathwing".


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Kanluwen wrote:I'm 99.99% sure that it's still people misinterpreting a statement.

No, reds8n stated pretty explicitly that the Battle Forces were going the way of the dodo. He hoped it wasn't true, but he said that chatter was edging that way and the Woof box was the last one.

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Kanluwen wrote:I'm 99.99% sure that it's still people misinterpreting a statement.

H.B.M.C. wrote:No, reds8n stated pretty explicitly that the Battle Forces were going the way of the dodo. He hoped it wasn't true, but he said that chatter was edging that way and the Woof box was the last one.

Wasnt there a tyranid battle force after the space wolf one?

*blinks*

'Nids came out before The Space Wolves. That's why JOTWW was invented, remember?

H.B.M.C. wrote:*blinks*

'Nids came out before The Space Wolves. That's why JOTWW was invented, remember?

i guess i dont lol

H.B.M.C. wrote:*blinks*

'Nids came out before The Space Wolves. That's why JOTWW was invented, remember?

That and, if I recall, the 'Nid battlefore never changed from the old codex to the new one.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I'm still kinda surprised there's no Deathwing battleforce.

Because there's no Deathwing sprue, and the only Deathwing specific parts are a few shoulder pads, a Storm Bolter, a Power Sword, a set of legs and an Assault Cannon - all located on a sprue full of Power Armour Marines. A Deathwing Battle Force would just be a big box of Terminators - probably 15-25 of them, or maybe 15 and a Dread and Land Raider - but nothing that screams "Deathwing".

There's no Deathwing sprue yet. All you'd need is some unique shoulderpads, torsos, robed heads set up to fit into the torsos, a few character specific pieces(a psychic hood torso, robed/tabarded torsos, etc).

Voila! Deathwing battleforce!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I'm 99.99% sure that it's still people misinterpreting a statement.

No, reds8n stated pretty explicitly that the Battle Forces were going the way of the dodo. He hoped it wasn't true, but he said that chatter was edging that way and the Woof box was the last one.

So, what about the Skaven battalion? Beastmen?
Because that's what people have been saying, nonstop since Reds8n stated that "Boxed army deals are going away", is what was going to happen.
That battalions and battleforces were being removed.

Since there's been battalions coming out since then...I'd say we're officially in the realm of a misinterpreted rumor.

H.B.M.C. wrote:*blinks*

'Nids came out before The Space Wolves. That's why JOTWW was invented, remember?

Errrm... No?

Space Wolves: October 2009
Tyranids: January 2010
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Warhammer_40%2C000_Current_Rulebooks

The Wolf Codex was before the Tyranid Codex?

I could've sworn it was the other way around... hmm... guess not.

That doesn't sound right...
I could have sworn it was Imperial Guard, then Tyranids, then Space Wolves...

so when preorders go up tuesday will we see the other kits?

Archonate wrote:That doesn't sound right...
I could have sworn it was Imperial Guard, then Tyranids, then Space Wolves...

Nope. It wasn't.

Even t3h wikipedias agree:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Codex_%28Warhammer_40,000%29#5th_Edition




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SweetLou wrote:so when preorders go up tuesday will we see the other kits?

Should do. I am gonna grab me a Codex and at least a Lileth, so i get it early

puma713 wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:*blinks*

'Nids came out before The Space Wolves. That's why JOTWW was invented, remember?

That and, if I recall, the 'Nid battlefore never changed from the old codex to the new one.

It changed, diffrent units

Archonate wrote:That doesn't sound right...
I could have sworn it was Imperial Guard, then Tyranids, then Space Wolves...

5th ed was space marines.. then an absolutely huge inexcusable wait before imperial guard, sw, nids, BA

Kirasu wrote:

Archonate wrote:That doesn't sound right...
I could have sworn it was Imperial Guard, then Tyranids, then Space Wolves...

5th ed was space marines.. then an absolutely huge inexcusable wait before imperial guard, sw, nids, BA

Correction, 5th ed was Chaos Dæmons, Followed by SM, IG, SW, Nids and BA.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I'm still kinda surprised there's no Deathwing battleforce.

Because there's no Deathwing sprue, and the only Deathwing specific parts are a few shoulder pads, a Storm Bolter, a Power Sword, a set of legs and an Assault Cannon - all located on a sprue full of Power Armour Marines. A Deathwing Battle Force would just be a big box of Terminators - probably 15-25 of them, or maybe 15 and a Dread and Land Raider - but nothing that screams "Deathwing".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:I'm 99.99% sure that it's still people misinterpreting a statement.

No, reds8n stated pretty explicitly that the Battle Forces were going the way of the dodo. He hoped it wasn't true, but he said that chatter was edging that way and the Woof box was the last one.

There's more than that. There's DW specific banners to glue to the tops of Seargeants,a ton of small bits like censors and such to add to the models,DW Storm Shields,and the robed heads that don't have a helmet are all useful for DW models.

The real reason behind not having a DW Battleforce is the fact that the price point for Battleforces is suppossed to be $90 US. Terminator boxed sets are $50 US on their own. A competitively priced DW Battleforce would be a Terminator box,an Assault Terminator box,and a DA bits sprue. 10 models doesn't equal a Battleforce.

So that's why they turned the Tyranid Battleforce into gak by taking out the Carnifex...

H.B.M.C. wrote:So that's why they turned the Tyranid Battleforce into gak by taking out the Carnifex...

Well that, and everyone and their mother in terms of Tyranid players from the previous edition already had broods of Carnifexes.

Kanluwen wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:So that's why they turned the Tyranid Battleforce into gak by taking out the Carnifex...

Well that, and everyone and their mother in terms of Tyranid players from the previous edition already had broods of Carnifexes.

And any NEW players wouldn't need them because they got hit with the Nerf Tree, let alone the Nerf Stick.

So we are now bored of Dark Eldar, and are onto Battleforces, and the former releases timeline


I'm sure many have said already, but what are you all planning on buying on/near release day?

I'm going to get the codex, possibly a IC (Not sure which one yet though :S) and probably a Raider (from GW)
Since i only have a small collection of DE from earlier this year, i don't want to buy a load of random stuff like i did when i got Eldar....it didn't work, so i'm going to keep saving money, and wait untill i'm back at xmas from Uni, and buy the rest of the army online (with a lovely discount )

I'm sure many have said already, but what are you all planning on buying on/near release day?

We were told not to talk about that any more.

Sidstyler wrote:

I'm sure many have said already, but what are you all planning on buying on/near release day?

We were told not to talk about that any more.

When? I havn't seem much (and i'm fairly sure i have been through every page....) on what people are actually going to get....
I'm just interested in other peoples buying patterns...

Buying pattern?
I'd first make some plans for the army to be fielded.
Here the best seems to be Raider spam.

Buylist:
Dex
2 boxes warriors (13 man sqd + 7 over for mandrake conversion using empire flaggelents (they have the robes/hakima)
2 Boxes Wyches (2x 10 man squad)
2 Raiders (for wyches)
2 Ravagers
Archon/Archite
Box of Bikes or Hellions.

However if there's a sniff of a box I will wait to get maximum value. I still have some tau to finish painting.

It mainly depends on how I feel. I might just buy the dex, wait until the hype has died down a bit. It also depends if wayland do AA

Is the ravager even going to be in the first wave? And how long of a wait between these waves will there be?

It is supposed to be a combo box at least that was the rumor a while ago as for the DE i am going to build a ton of buildings to hide my marines in and shoot them out of.

We'll be getting DE battleforces

Kanluwen wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Most people in the know are not aware of any battle force release in the near future, certainly not this year.

Then they're full of crap. Everything I've heard points towards a battleforce release for the first wave, in November/December.

We will see. I made a link to your post for future reference
Maybe we see the first DE release without a product code

H.B.M.C. wrote:So that's why they turned the Tyranid Battleforce into gak by taking out the Carnifex...

Ever read the 5th edition Carnifex rules? Everyone prefers Trygons now, with almost no use for a Carnifex except for conversions.

Anyway,
- November 6th: Codex, Kabalites, Wyches, Raider, Reavers, Archon, Lilith, Incubi.
- November 20th: Hellion, Ravager, Mandrakes.
- no new talos model for a very long time
- only 1st wave models photographed in the Codex

Nice theory, why Kruellagh is not in the Codex anymore:

Symrivven wrote:Kruellagh has been devoured by a horde of blackspotted warpbeasts.

...can you define "a very long time"?

I would expect a ravager as with wyches, raiders and warriors the army would not be that playable. GW tend to make an army 'viable' in its first release.

I would really love a battleforce to be available from the get go and I am told by a blueshirt that it will be one of the biggest releases in terms of 'new stuff all at once'. Obviously you NaCl content may vary...

Gwar! wrote:

Kirasu wrote:

Archonate wrote:That doesn't sound right...
I could have sworn it was Imperial Guard, then Tyranids, then Space Wolves...

5th ed was space marines.. then an absolutely huge inexcusable wait before imperial guard, sw, nids, BA

Correction, 5th ed was Chaos Dæmons, Followed by SM, IG, SW, Nids and BA.

sure are alot of xenos...

I thouight Daemons were 4th edition...

Daemons were officially the first codex built for 5th edition (Eternal Warrior). Though Orks seems to be heavily built for 5th as well but didn't use any of the new USR's.

As for the release I plan on picking up around 10 vehicles and a few boxes of troops (assuming I have anything left). That is of course based on what the codex looks like

Daemons were released at the time of 4th edition, but it was so close to the release of 5th they were almost definitely written to be used as a 5th ed. codex.

Can't believe I forgot about that...

As for my purchasing intent:

Codex
Incubi (a lot)
Reavers (a lot)
Raiders/Ravagers

I assume of course that the codex will have some way to make Incubi into troops choices

Kroothawk wrote:Ever read the 5th edition Carnifex rules? Everyone prefers Trygons now, with almost no use for a Carnifex except for conversions.

As a Nid player I agree with you, I traded my Carnifex for a Trygon. This is only because Trygons provide a fun element of psycological warfare, since what's scarier than three MC's marching down the board to kill you? 3 MC's that can appear anywhere on the board, ignore Deep Strike Mishap's and kill you. That, and the Trygons then provide points on the board where reserve troops can spawn from.

Anyway. back on-topic. I will be buying:
Codex
Incubi (10)
Reavers (maximum limit for 2 FOC's)
Wyches (several)
Raiders (several)

I guess I'm the only one who still uses ccarnifexes to beat my opponents face in?

chaos0xomega wrote:I guess I'm the only one who still uses ccarnifexes to beat my opponents face in?

No, I run 2 Trygons and a brood of 3 fexes. Idea being, does the opponent want to deal with the immediate, visible threat, OR stay defensive and deal with the tunneling horrors?

Kroothawk wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Most people in the know are not aware of any battle force release in the near future, certainly not this year.

Then they're full of crap. Everything I've heard points towards a battleforce release for the first wave, in November/December.

We will see. I made a link to your post for future reference
Maybe we see the first DE release without a product code

They generally don't change the product code for Battleforces/Battalions, so...

thats a good point Kanluwen.. Would there even be a need to update the product code for something that needn't change?

chaos0xomega wrote:I guess I'm the only one who still uses ccarnifexes to beat my opponents face in?

No, Kroothawk's assertion was a gross overgeneralization derived from applying his experiences to what he's read or those that play around him. By no means does that apply to players across the spectrum. 3 Carni's and a dual-bonesword Prime with Catalyst from a trailing Tervigon please and thank you.

puma713 wrote:That and, if I recall, the 'Nid battlefore never changed from the old codex to the new one.

It changed. They took the Carnifex out.

Gathering Storm wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:I guess I'm the only one who still uses ccarnifexes to beat my opponents face in?

No, I run 2 Trygons and a brood of 3 fexes. Idea being, does the opponent want to deal with the immediate, visible threat, OR stay defensive and deal with the tunneling horrors?

Good man! Finally someone else who realizes that its strength through diversity, not strength through spam.

Sidstyler wrote:...can you define "a very long time"?

Space Wolves second wave of stuff hasn't come out yet if that gives you any idea.

And, there's got to be a page somewhere on the forum specifically for whatever Tyranid list you guys want to play.

You realise there isn't going to be a Space Wolves second wave because they don't need it?

The only models that aren't supported are Thunderwolf Cavalry and Fen. Wolves.

This long time is infinity for the Space Wolves.

Another tidbit:
Jes Goodwin confirmed that there will be no Vect model in the forseeable future. You will have to use the old model and throne on the new Raider/Ravager or do some other conversion. Possible that other SCs will get no (new) miniature either in the next time.

Okay, I like that they're adding new units to every army, but this "we won't be making models for them ever" bs is starting to get annoying. I don't want to have to convert or kitbash half the gak in my army.

Kroothawk wrote:Another tidbit:
Jes Goodwin confirmed that there will be no Vect model in the forseeable future. You will have to use the old model and throne on the new Raider/Ravager or do some other conversion. Possible that other SCs will get no (new) miniature either in the next time.

I can see Vect being an easy conversion... but that doesn't make this right. I hope they make The Decapitator. The Mandrake Champion with his 4 arms has some absurdly massive coolness potential... Which would be very reassuring in a world where GW cares about coolness. If they did, they would have redone DE 8 years ago.

Who said they wouldn't be making models for them ever?

Vect already has a (gakky) model, and the units that are missing models usually get them 2nd/3rd wave.

Just Dave wrote:You realise there isn't going to be a Space Wolves second wave because they don't need it?

The only models that aren't supported are Thunderwolf Cavalry and Fen. Wolves.

This long time is infinity for the Space Wolves.

All of the smart ass answers that seem to be so prevalent on these forums are the best. Aside from the Thunderwolf Cavalry, Fenrisian Wolves, and Arjak Rockfist, the only Njal Stormcaller in power armor, or Bjorn The Fellhanded are out of production models.

Sidstyler wrote:Okay, I like that they're adding new units to every army, but this "we won't be making models for them ever" bs is starting to get annoying. I don't want to have to convert or kitbash half the gak in my army.

Yea this is getting dumb, probably reasoning that so many people would convert there own so they wouldn't have to buy the models, now you HAVE to convert. And I'm beginning to believe that they will only do 2nd waves when its slow and they need to make a quick buck.

chaos0xomega wrote:Who said they wouldn't be making models for them ever?

Nobody.
But 'not in the foreseeable future' is a GW way of saying 'probably never'. I'm sure more SCs than just Lelith will get a new model, but Vect was the biggest and baddest of the DE, and was present at the time of the fall. It's a little appalling that they have no plans to support him on the board. It's akin to Orks having to use that really old, small Ghazkull Thrakka model in the midst of their amazing new models.

Kroothawk wrote:Another tidbit:
Jes Goodwin confirmed that there will be no Vect model in the forseeable future. You will have to use the old model and throne on the new Raider/Ravager or do some other conversion. Possible that other SCs will get no (new) miniature either in the next time.

And this is where GW's collectors/bits service will come in, offering the old metal parts to the Vect kit so that people can conver... ahhha... ahahahahahah!

Ok, even I couldn't finish that sentence with a straight face.


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Sidstyler wrote:Okay, I like that they're adding new units to every army, but this "we won't be making models for them ever" bs is starting to get annoying. I don't want to have to convert or kitbash half the gak in my army.

Welcome to 2nd Ed 40K.

I am so happy this thread hasn't wondered grossly off topic.......

Unless, of course, you subscribe to the notion that topics can develop and change over time.

Luthon1234 wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:Okay, I like that they're adding new units to every army, but this "we won't be making models for them ever" bs is starting to get annoying. I don't want to have to convert or kitbash half the gak in my army.

Yea this is getting dumb, probably reasoning that so many people would convert there own so they wouldn't have to buy the models, now you HAVE to convert. And I'm beginning to believe that they will only do 2nd waves when its slow and they need to make a quick buck.

It's like they said "Oh, models are too expensive? You don't like prices? Well feth you, half your codex can't even be fielded now unless you buy two kits to make each of those units! Go ahead, whine moar, I dare you."

I don't mind if some stuff doesn't have models right off the bat, but I just think it's really annoying that they aren't even going to be doing them at all. I know they haven't said that, but "not in the foreseeable future" might as well be "no".

Not true. I actually think what we're seeing is that GW had finally produced 90% of it's kits (or they could be easily converted 1-for-1 by other existing kits) and is now starting it back up. Basically it took them 2 full editions to make 90% of the stuff they put in codexes on the shelf. Well now most people will have those so they make a few extra kits with the release and leave room for future releases.

In a way it's actually smart. It gives them something to produce for an army so that they don't go 10 years with nothing. Coming out with 100% of stuff within the first 6 months of a codex leaves 4-6 years before you see anything new and that's for the popular xenos (Eldar, Tau, Nidz, Orks). I love it when people just scream without considering the actual reasoning. But it's people that buy GW, they're going to bitch.

Hulksmash wrote:Coming out with 100% of stuff within the first 6 months of a codex leaves 4-6 years before you see anything new and that's for the popular xenos (Eldar, Tau, Nidz, Orks).

Wave Releases are a perfectly sound idea to ensure that each army gets a release every year or so, rather than 4-6 years between getting anything new. The problem now isn't the length of time between releases, it's the fact that there are dozens of gaps in each line and we don't know if they will ever be filled. I doubt many Ork players would mind if they knew that a new Buggy and Deff Kopta kit was coming out 6 months from now or even 12 months from now. I think they mind more not knowing if there will ever be a Buggy kit.

Im still upset arhra not in the codex why the other eldar get there phonix lords why not the dark eldar

Plastic Warboss kit, Plastic Big Mek kit, Buggy and Deff Kopta kits. 4 big things for Orks from my perspective.

Sigmatron wrote:Plastic Warboss kit, Plastic Big Mek kit, Buggy and Deff Kopta kits. 4 big things for Orks from my perspective.

I wouldn't really expect the first two to ever come about. I think the era of plastic HQ's has pretty much died out.

Plastic SM Commander and plastic IG Command Squads beg to differ.

Also, Black Reach Warboss.

Plastic Special Characters? No, we'll never see those. Plastic generic HQs? I think it's not out of the question.

Plastic HQs for anything but the top-selling armies, however, eh. We probably won't see a plastic Farseer kit, but a plastic Warboss isn't out of the question.

SaintHazard wrote:Plastic SM Commander and plastic IG Command Squads beg to differ.

Also, Black Reach Warboss.

Plastic Special Characters? No, we'll never see those. Plastic generic HQs? I think it's not out of the question.

Plastic HQs for anything but the top-selling armies, however, eh. We probably won't see a plastic Farseer kit, but a plastic Warboss isn't out of the question.

Those two kits do not prove otherwise.. HBMC has a good point

Plastic SM commander is VERY different from a warboss on 2 points
1. hes a SM which sells a ton
2. He has tons of options. Ork warbosses always have a power klaw.. thats it. Wow great kit!

IG command squad is not what he meant, that is a *unit* that happens to be a HQ choice. Just like honor guard, command squads and many other units

They really arent even in the same league as a pointless plastic kit for two ork units which only have a single realistic option

I think we'll get plastic HQ kits provided those HQs have option you can model. I think a *new* SM commander kit is the most viable considering the current one is woefully obsolete

There is no Big Mek with KFF and power klaw, what about a burna? Also, no Mega-armored Warboss besides Ghaz.

im for one is so glade that the new archon is convertable with the wych sprues and tthe warrior sprues which means converting up any of the new specail characters would be easy im planning to buying 2 archon and convert them to be specail chaarcter and proberly buy a 3rd one to be a normal archon

Kirasu wrote:Plastic SM commander is VERY different from a warboss on 2 points
1. hes a SM which sells a ton

Orks are the #1 selling Xeno army, last time I checked.

Kirasu wrote:2. He has tons of options. Ork warbosses always have a power klaw.. thats it. Wow great kit!

Er, have you actually read the Ork codex? The Warboss has a ton of options, many of them viable. For starters, mega armor. Besides that, Orks are perfectly fine to take with a Big Choppa if you're going up against a T3-heavy army for that extra attack (since PKs don't benefit from an extra attack from the Slugga in CC). I've also seen Warbosses run with Kombi-Skorchas and TL Shootas, two distinct options. Once you break it down, Warbosses have just as many good builds as Captains, or close to it.

Kirasu wrote:IG command squad is not what he meant, that is a *unit* that happens to be a HQ choice. Just like honor guard, command squads and many other units

No, it's IG's primary HQ choice. How many competitive IG lists do you see led by a Primaris Psyker? Just because IG are squishy T3 humans doesn't make them somehow "not count" when factoring in the number of plastic HQ choices.

Kirasu wrote:They really arent even in the same league as a pointless plastic kit for two ork units which only have a single realistic option

Again, "single realistic option" is a gross oversimplification. There are plenty of ways to run Warbosses and Big Meks, and while your top-tier tournament lists may only include one or two viable Warboss builds, that doesn't mean there shouldn't be more options.

That said, do we currently have a way to build those one or two viable builds with plastic kits? Unless you buy a Black Reach Warboss, no, you don't.

SaintHazard wrote:Plastic SM Commander and plastic IG Command Squads beg to differ.

The former came out years and years ago. The latter is a squad, not a single character model.

SaintHazard wrote:Also, Black Reach Warboss.

Starter box model. Not at all analogous to the SM Commander or the host of Warhammer Character boxes (that seem to have completely dried up).

As I said - they don't seem to do them any more. Skaven didn't get any. Beastmen didn't. Hordes of Chaos or whatever they're called didn't. Dark Eldar aren't getting one. 'Nids didn't get a new Hive Tyrant. Chaos Daemons got a load of metal HQ choices (and technically don't have any Herald models outside of special characters, Forge World, and one atrocious metal Herald on Jugger). The last 40K one was the Chaos Terminator Lord IIRC. A Warboss kit is unlikely, but if they were to do one, I'd expect it to be a combined Warboss/Big Mek kit, where you can build either. And if the rumours pan out, we could see a Librarian/Chaplain kit. But otherwise, plastic HQ's are a dead concept until we see some new ones.

Lordkillyou wrote:Im still upset arhra not in the codex why the other eldar get there phonix lords why not the dark eldar

Because the ones in the Eldar codex are generations after generations of Phoenix Lords that have come and gone, passing on their mantle as the new Phoenix Lord inherets everything from the previous iteration.

We're not fielding the original Jain Zar or the original Asurmen (as in, the first of their kind).

Arhra is the original Father of Scorpions. The Fallen Phoenix. He would be like fielding a god. *shush up, Necrons*


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SaintHazard wrote:

Kirasu wrote:Plastic SM commander is VERY different from a warboss on 2 points
1. hes a SM which sells a ton

Orks are the #1 selling Xeno army, last time I checked.

Someone was reporting on the sales figures for GW not long ago (BrassScorpion?) and noted that Tau were the #1 selling Xeno army.

@HBMC

But those models you mentioned are already in the line. In all honesty there isn't anything in the Ork book without a model or a simple 1-to-1 conversion (Looted Wagons). Orks are lucky in that they might see upgrades in the future of their metals to plastics which is more than a lot of armies can say. I think GW's trend the last 10 years to create a model for everything in a book (which they've done an amazing job with) means that we can assume the models will come out eventually. But by not releasing them all together they get 2 things. People buying current models and converting them (sometimes poorly) which is an influx now. And then a release to keep army interest and another cash boost because most people don't convert super well and will buy the new kit. Win/Win for them actually.

puma713 wrote:Arhra is the original Father of Scorpions. The Fallen Phoenix. He would be like fielding a god.

From the 5th Ed Rulebook: "928.M41 - Arha and Karandras, opposed Phoenix Lords of the Striking Scorpions, duel for seventeen days amongst the shattered ruins of ancient Zandros."
He can't be THAT much better than the current Phoenix Lords... The question is WHO WON?!?!?!

Archonate wrote:

puma713 wrote:Arhra is the original Father of Scorpions. The Fallen Phoenix. He would be like fielding a god.

He can't be THAT much better than the current Phoenix Lords...

I don't have my Eldar codex on me to quote because I'm out of town on business, but in Arhra's story, I believe it takes all of the Phoenix Lords to defeat him and cause him to flee to Comorragh.

I still think he should be in the Codex. Characters of extraordinary capacity are what SCs are all about.
He's the one character I hoped to see when DE got their first codex. I thought for sure GW would have given him to us this time around. Very disappointing if indeed he's not in.

To answer a few questions that were asked of me earlier:

Archons cannot take Bikes. (Wych HQ can IIRC)

Pain Tokens affect only the unit that has them.

Hellions, when using their Hit and Run USR can drag an enemy Independent Character out of the unit on a roll of 2+.

The 'light' Talos can distribute Pain Token effects to nearby friendly models.

Any more questions?

Arctik - Is it possible to see what the point value for Warriors/Wyches/Archon is?

Are Disintegrators still in?

Any template weapons for units other than Incubi?

Are Scourges Fast Attack? Do they get a "Haywire Grenade Launchers?"

What are the results of the Combat Drug chart that is rolled on before the game?

Hulksmash wrote:In a way it's actually smart. It gives them something to produce for an army so that they don't go 10 years with nothing. Coming out with 100% of stuff within the first 6 months of a codex leaves 4-6 years before you see anything new and that's for the popular xenos (Eldar, Tau, Nidz, Orks).

I suspect the more important issue may be as GW expands their lines, they are reaching the limits of their ability to support their lines. They only have so much capacity for product in stores and they only have so much capacity for making new models in one go. For me personally, I like having the options in my army book not be limited by GW's production capacity, and I have a killer Beastman Cygor conversion planned. Though perhaps the fact that I haven't even bothered to get the bitz together yet should be a warning to GW about how this plan can bite them if they aren't careful.

But oh well, at least it gives 3rd party sculptors a business opportunity!

I love it when people just scream without considering the actual reasoning. But it's people that buy GW, they're going to bitch.

Personally, I love it when people disregard someone's opinion simply because it's critical of GW.

I don't agree that having gaps in the model range is bad. But that's just my opinion. The opposite opinion is no less valid.

Small tidbit by Harry:

Wave 2 plastics are already done. (So the big money on the sculpting and moulds is already spent).
Wave 1.5 and Wave 2 metals are also well on the way.

Archonate wrote:I still think he should be in the Codex. Characters of extraordinary capacity are what SCs are all about.
He's the one character I hoped to see when DE got their first codex. I thought for sure GW would have given him to us this time around. Very disappointing if indeed he's not in.

i was hoping for that as well but at games day uk i asked and i was told he not in the codex heart broken


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Arctik_Firangi wrote:To answer a few questions that were asked of me earlier:

Archons cannot take Bikes. (Wych HQ can IIRC)

Pain Tokens affect only the unit that has them.

Hellions, when using their Hit and Run USR can drag an enemy Independent Character out of the unit on a roll of 2+.

The 'light' Talos can distribute Pain Token effects to nearby friendly models.

Any more questions?

what weapon can a wych lord have
what are the new specail chatacters like does any make reavers or anything like that

Kroothawk wrote:Another tidbit:
Jes Goodwin confirmed that there will be no Vect model in the forseeable future. You will have to use the old model and throne on the new Raider/Ravager or do some other conversion. Possible that other SCs will get no (new) miniature either in the next time.

So, what happened to them replacing every miniature in the army?


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puma713 wrote:

Lordkillyou wrote:Im still upset arhra not in the codex why the other eldar get there phonix lords why not the dark eldar

Because the ones in the Eldar codex are generations after generations of Phoenix Lords that have come and gone, passing on their mantle as the new Phoenix Lord inherets everything from the previous iteration.

We're not fielding the original Jain Zar or the original Asurmen (as in, the first of their kind).

Arhra is the original Father of Scorpions. The Fallen Phoenix. He would be like fielding a god.

Actually, the Phoenix Lords are the same people who originally wore the armour, for all intents and purposes. The original personality, memories, knowledge and skills are all passed down - the latest person to don the armour gets subsumed by the the spirit of the Phoenix Lord. Path of the Warrior even made it seem like Phoenix Lords are made of energy inside the armour, and that the new wearer doesn't put the armour on physically - their soul gets sucked in to join those of all the previous hosts. The scene was very surreal though, there's room for interpretation. But the personality of the orignal Lord definitely has total dominance, unlike an Exarch where the armour contains an amalgamation of it's previous host's consciousnesses.

Samus666 wrote:

Actually, the Phoenix Lords are the same people who originally wore the armour, for all intents and purposes. The original personality, memories, knowledge and skills are all passed down - the latest person to don the armour gets subsumed by the the spirit of the Phoenix Lord. Path of the Warrior even made it seem like Phoenix Lords are made of energy inside the armour, and that the new wearer doesn't put the armour on physically - their soul gets sucked in to join those of all the previous hosts. The scene was very surreal though, there's room for interpretation. But the personality of the orignal Lord definitely has total dominance, unlike an Exarch where the armour contains an amalgamation of it's previous host's consciousnesses.

Even so - the codex has made it seem that the original Phoenix Lords are without peer and that the passing on of the armour and, therefore, their consciousness, is sort of like a shade of their former selves; that, perhaps they lost some power in the continual change of the host.

While it could be argued that this would make them more powerful (and hence, why Karandras could stand up to Arhra), GW canon has a way of making the first and most powerful a godlike entity and I don't think Arhra would be any different.

Cool!! A Phoenix Lord thread broke out in a Dark Eldar thread.

GG

generalgrog wrote:Cool!! A Phoenix Lord thread broke out in a Dark Eldar thread.

GG

In response to whether or not Arhra should be included in the new DE codex.




. . .But you're right. 34 pages isn't quite enough to start discussing small details and why they should or should not be included. We should still be talking about the rumors on page 1.

Better a phoenix lord thread than a WW2 history thread that ALWAYS happens when people talk about imperial guard

In the time line of events given in the core rule book on page 128 third entry down, it mentions:

"Arha and Karandras, opposed Phoenix Lords of the Striking Scorpions, duel for seventeen days amongst the shattered ruins of ancient Zandros".......

That would suggest to me that they are equal, or close to it. So it wouldn't be crazy to think he could appear in the codex.

Archonate wrote:

puma713 wrote:Arhra is the original Father of Scorpions. The Fallen Phoenix. He would be like fielding a god.

From the 5th Ed Rulebook: "928.M41 - Arha and Karandras, opposed Phoenix Lords of the Striking Scorpions, duel for seventeen days amongst the shattered ruins of ancient Zandros."
He can't be THAT much better than the current Phoenix Lords... The question is WHO WON?!?!?!

The funny thing is, in the 2nd edition Eldar book, they mention the "Orbs of Zandros" as an aspect... thats a nice little shout-out to the fans.

Arctik_Firangi - Can you check if there is a SC that makes Incubi troops?

Kroothawk/Harry - Is there a timeframe for Wave 2?

For those who have seen the codex and/or hellions and other models. Do any kits come with weapons that are similar in design to the Incubi Klaives? I'm really anal about metal models, so I'm a bit desperate to find a way around them incubi that still feels apropriate. Even if it's like 1 claive per $35 set, I'd do it!

I doubt that you will, as the article about them on the GW site last week said that they wanted to design a unique weapon for the Incubi.

That I don't mind but I hope Incubi are going to be good enough to justify their inevitably high points cost, I love those models and GW could make a helluva profit off them!

Any ideas what is in the 2nd wave? A talos at all?

beezley1981 wrote:

Just Dave wrote:You realise there isn't going to be a Space Wolves second wave because they don't need it?

The only models that aren't supported are Thunderwolf Cavalry and Fen. Wolves.

This long time is infinity for the Space Wolves.

All of the smart ass answers that seem to be so prevalent on these forums are the best. Aside from the Thunderwolf Cavalry, Fenrisian Wolves, and Arjak Rockfist, the only Njal Stormcaller in power armor, or Bjorn The Fellhanded are out of production models.

Smart is the optimum word there, consider employing it yourself.
- Fenrisian Wolves are supported through the Wolves available from games workshop and Chaos Hounds. They're also not popular enough to warrant official models.
- Arjac Rockfist is easily made using the Terminator Box set. There's even an anvil symbol in there. It's how everyone makes him and that's not going to change. Games Workshop didn't allow you to make a suitable Arjac model in there by accident. Same goes for Wolf Lords.
- There is a Rune Priest Power Armour model available, hence there is no need for a Njal Power Armour model. Particularly not when his current model looks so good.
- Forge World produce multiple Venerable Dreadnought models and options, as do Games Workshop themselves. These sets are more than capable of creating a Bjorn model and much like the Fen. Wolves, Njal and Arjac, he's not that popular.

Hence Thunderwolves are really the only ones that could justify a new boxed set. Try seeing it from GW's perspective rather than one that has no imagination. Smart ass or just smart?

In all honesty, if every army had an options-heavy HQ box set, it would sell well. Overprice the damn thing; people will still want it.

It appears that some stores may have black boxes already. They also include the codex! So everyone bead on down to your stores and post your finds please. I grow ravenous for info each passing day.

I wonder how long until a scan shows up online?

chaos0xomega wrote:I wonder how long until a scan shows up online?

No more than a week after it's release, if not sooner.

HoverBoy wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:I wonder how long until a scan shows up online?

No more than a week after it's release, if not sooner.

What good is the scan after I've already bought the codex? I'm talkinga bout the usual pre-release scan so I know what I'm supposed to pre-order, lol.

Hellions, when using their Hit and Run USR can drag an enemy Independent Character out of the unit on a roll of 2+.

I believe that when doing this, the squad has to have the champion upgrade with a certain type of skyboard to do this.

chaos0xomega wrote:What good is the scan after I've already bought the codex? I'm talkinga bout the usual pre-release scan so I know what I'm supposed to pre-order, lol.

Exactly. I'm buying the codex, but I would like to have some idea of the points, options, etc. to make a pre-order decision.

Just have a look at the preview Codex in GW stores and some FLGSs end of this week, no need to discuss illegal stuff in this thread.

BTW Arhra is in the background text of the DE Codex. As he is firmly in the hands of Chaos (in whatever form), he is not able to lead a DE army.

Whatever1 wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Nids aren't Eldar tough, much less Necron tough. Deal with it.

How do you figure that? By a quick count,the Tyranid 'dex has 27 entries with T4+ and only 6 with T3-(Spore Mines,Gargoyles,Sky-Slashers,Termagants,Hormagaunts,and Ripper Swarms). T3 is pretty much the standard for Eldar accross the board. Eldar are not suppossed to be tough.

Actually, Eldar are supposed to be tough, which is why the have broad access to Sv3+ and AV12 Transports. Eldar can field T5 Sv3+ models as Troops, Nids can't. Ergo, Eldar are tougher than Nids.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

You're right, `Nids can't field T5 Sv3+ models as Troops, instead they can field T6 Sv3+ FNP models are Troops.

Then you'll be delighted when Eldar WLs are available as Troops again.

Back on topic, it sounds like a November release for the Codex? Should be an interesting read. I might pick it up just for the background fluff.

Kroothawk wrote:Just have a look at the preview Codex in GW stores and some FLGSs end of this week, no need to discuss illegal stuff in this thread.

BTW Arhra is in the background text of the DE Codex. As he is firmly in the hands of Chaos (in whatever form), he is not able to lead a DE army.

Some of us don't have the fortune of being within 50 miles of a GW store or a FLGS.

You're right, `Nids can't field T5 Sv3+ models as Troops, instead they can field T6 Sv3+ FNP models are Troops.

So you're basically putting your fingers in your ear and screaming "LALALALALALA IM NOT LISTENING LALALALALA"?
Besides that, Wraithguard are T6 Sv3+... ELDAR CAN FIELD MORE T6 SV3+ MODELS THAN TYRANIDS CAN! Sure they might not have FNP, but they make up for that in numbers.
Also, what you seem to forget is that in order to field those T6 Sv3+ FNP models as troops, you first need to field 16 or so T3 Sv5+ minis, which take up a Troops slot each. At max you can field 3 such models in troops... Eldar can field 60 T6 Sv3+ models. Do you really want to continue arguing this?

Kirasu wrote:Better a phoenix lord thread than a WW2 history thread that ALWAYS happens when people talk about imperial guard

Gotta love IG.

Rough Riders - 11th century cavalry with 'power' spears
Leman Russ - cross between WW1/WW2 tank
Stormtroopers - somewhat similar to modern Spec Ops
Valkyries - Somewhere in the far off future (our helicopters suck)

Yes, please, borrow military aspects from any portion of the last 1000 years!

Back on thread, WTF is up with 8-9 special characters? 1/3 of the army list shouldn't be special characters. The way they're going we're going to start seeing crap like Marneus Calgar's personal butt wiper or something equally absurd.

I'm not arguing anything, he said something, I pointed out something that was factually wrong about it. In example, it only takes 15 Gaunts to field three Tervigons as troops. In addition you can only make a single unit of Wraithguard count as Troops, not six.

Perhaps read the codex? If you take 10 Wrathguard with a Spiritseer they may be fielded as either Elites or Troops, so 6 is correct.

Aduro wrote: In addition you can only make a single unit of Wraithguard count as Troops, not six.

Where are you getting that from?

I'd have sworn it was a "one unit may" option. Went to check my Codex, but apparently whoever borrowed it last didn't bother to return it.

Aduro wrote:I'd have sworn it was a "one unit may" option. Went to check my Codex, but apparently whoever borrowed it last didn't bother to return it.

Hang on, i've got the codex here:

A unit of 10 wraith-guard with a spiritseer may be fielded as either an elites choice or a Troops choice.

Elder codex p62

Kroothawk wrote:Just have a look at the preview Codex in GW stores and some FLGSs end of this week, no need to discuss illegal stuff in this thread.

Fair enough, but not everyone has time/access to these preview codexes. Frankly, I wish GW would offer PDF versions of all of their codexes legally as it's very convenient both for preview and transport. I could put the damn things on my iPad, lol!


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Amaya wrote:Back on thread, WTF is up with 8-9 special characters? 1/3 of the army list shouldn't be special characters. The way they're going we're going to start seeing crap like Marneus Calgar's personal butt wiper or something equally absurd.

It's the trend and I'm sure several them allow you to change army configuration or buy special units for troop slots. I'm assuming some at least will be upgrade characters are just listed in Kroothawk's HQ section for convenience. Decapitator, for example, is a Mandrake champion, so I would expect him to be the DE version of Snikrot or something.

Aduro wrote:I'm not arguing anything, he said something, I pointed out something that was factually wrong about it. In example, it only takes 15 Gaunts to field three Tervigons as troops. In addition you can only make a single unit of Wraithguard count as Troops, not six.

I'm sorry, you're wrong. You can actually field 90 wraithguard in an army. 30 as elites, 60 as troops. Nowhere in the eldar codex does it say you're limited to only one unit fielded as troops, all it says is a unit of 10 wraithguard led my a spiritseer/warlock can be fielded as a troops or elites choice. I'm an eldar player, I would know. If you don't believe me, look it up (I just did).

Furthermore, it takes 30 gaunts to field 3 tervigons (minimum squad size of 10, and you need 1 squad per tervigon).

I'm sorry, if you're going to make an argument, the least you can do is try to be at least somewhat correct.

Okay.....I never thought i would live to say this....but i WANT to start dark eldar alongside my nurgle force now.......OMG I ACTUALY SAID IT ^^

You can actually field 90 wraithguard in an army

Not at $15 US each. :(

Tomorrow is the supposed first day of Advance Orders for the new Dark Eldar. Prices and more pictures will be revealed!

BrassScorpion wrote:

You can actually field 90 wraithguard in an army

Not at $15 US each. :(

I convert mine from bitz and wood elf dryads. They look pretty cool (and they fit my fluff), so i could if I was willing to invest that level of time into the project (but I'm content with 10 for now).

Tomorrow is the supposed first day of Advance Orders for the new Dark Eldar. Prices and more pictures will be revealed!

I can't wait, although I'm slightly disappointed with the lack of a whats new today. I was hoping for a bit more of a teaser before tomorrow.

Aduro wrote:I'm not arguing anything, he said something, I pointed out something that was factually wrong about it. In example, it only takes 15 Gaunts to field three Tervigons as troops. In addition you can only make a single unit of Wraithguard count as Troops, not six.

Both of these are incorrect. The minimum Termagant unit size is 10, and you get 1 Troop terivgon per Termagant brood.

chaos0xomega, can you post a pic of your wraithguard conversion? Price is one thing, but them being all metal turned me off to Iyanden years ago. Love to see what you came up with.

LazzurusMan wrote:Okay.....I never thought i would live to say this....but i WANT to start dark eldar alongside my nurgle force now.......OMG I ACTUALY SAID IT ^^

LMAO!!!

BrassScorpion wrote:

You can actually field 90 wraithguard in an army

Not at $15 US each.

If you bought a few of the Iyanden Ghost Warrior Armies way back when GW sold a second round of complete armies in a box, I think the effective price per WG model worked out to less than $5 each.

But, even so, $1500 worth of Wraithguard pales in comparison to 1500 pts of FW DKoK infantry.


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chaos0xomega wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:

You can actually field 90 wraithguard in an army

Not at $15 US each. :(

I convert mine from bitz and wood elf dryads. They look pretty cool (and they fit my fluff), so i could if I was willing to invest that level of time into the project (but I'm content with 10 for now).

Exodite, are you?

Nvs wrote:chaos0xomega, can you post a pic of your wraithguard conversion? Price is one thing, but them being all metal turned me off to Iyanden years ago. Love to see what you came up with.

Sorry, but my wraithguard are back home (I'm away at school for the time being)

WTH!?! Stop arguing over nonsense please and start combing the interwebs for delicious info. Somehow, somewhere I know there is a codex in front of somebody who could post here on dakka.

chaos0xomega wrote:

You're right, `Nids can't field T5 Sv3+ models as Troops, instead they can field T6 Sv3+ FNP models are Troops.

So you're basically putting your fingers in your ear and screaming "LALALALALALA IM NOT LISTENING LALALALALA"?
Besides that, Wraithguard are T6 Sv3+... ELDAR CAN FIELD MORE T6 SV3+ MODELS THAN TYRANIDS CAN! Sure they might not have FNP, but they make up for that in numbers.
Also, what you seem to forget is that in order to field those T6 Sv3+ FNP models as troops, you first need to field 16 or so T3 Sv5+ minis, which take up a Troops slot each. At max you can field 3 such models in troops... Eldar can field 60 T6 Sv3+ models. Do you really want to continue arguing this?

Did you just compare 6 troop units at 700 pts. to 6 troop units at 1800 pts.? Who cares -what- you can field. It's making it work that counts. That and all those poison sacs from the measly 30 T3 Sv5+ gaunts (not to mention the spawned ones - which count as troops too, btw) will have no trouble with T6 models.

puma713 wrote:

Did you just compare 6 troop units at 700 pts. to 6 troop units at 1800 pts.? Who cares -what- you can field. It's making it work that counts. That and all those poison sacs from the measly 30 T3 Sv5+ gaunts (not to mention the spawned ones - which count as troops too, btw) will have no trouble with T6 models.

I think you missed the point of the argument entirely, though to be fair it really doesn't matter in the Dark Eldar thread.

puma713 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

You're right, `Nids can't field T5 Sv3+ models as Troops, instead they can field T6 Sv3+ FNP models are Troops.

So you're basically putting your fingers in your ear and screaming "LALALALALALA IM NOT LISTENING LALALALALA"?
Besides that, Wraithguard are T6 Sv3+... ELDAR CAN FIELD MORE T6 SV3+ MODELS THAN TYRANIDS CAN! Sure they might not have FNP, but they make up for that in numbers.
Also, what you seem to forget is that in order to field those T6 Sv3+ FNP models as troops, you first need to field 16 or so T3 Sv5+ minis, which take up a Troops slot each. At max you can field 3 such models in troops... Eldar can field 60 T6 Sv3+ models. Do you really want to continue arguing this?

Did you just compare 6 troop units at 700 pts. to 6 troop units at 1800 pts.? Who cares -what- you can field. It's making it work that counts. That and all those poison sacs from the measly 30 T3 Sv5+ gaunts (not to mention the spawned ones - which count as troops too, btw) will have no trouble with T6 models.

Really, as others have said this really has nothing to do with the topic at hand. My closing statements to you are that you missed the point, and that wraithguard also have BS4 AP2 weapons that autowound on 2+ and will instakill your TMC's on a 6 (IIRC).

Im both amazed that nobody has mentioned fortune or even stopped to consider which thread this is in...

*steps back to watch*

How about you guys try not to get it locked before tomorrow when they are up for pre-order, eh?

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Whatever1 wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Nids aren't Eldar tough, much less Necron tough. Deal with it.

How do you figure that? By a quick count,the Tyranid 'dex has 27 entries with T4+ and only 6 with T3-(Spore Mines,Gargoyles,Sky-Slashers,Termagants,Hormagaunts,and Ripper Swarms). T3 is pretty much the standard for Eldar accross the board. Eldar are not suppossed to be tough.

Actually, Eldar are supposed to be tough, which is why the have broad access to Sv3+ and AV12 Transports. Eldar can field T5 Sv3+ models as Troops, Nids can't. Ergo, Eldar are tougher than Nids.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Eldar are not TOUGH. They're superior technology grants them access to good ARMOR,which they need because they do not have good TOUGHNESS. You have a total of 4 units in that 'dex with a T higher than 3,6 if you count those who's T3 is bumped to a 4 by being on a Jetbike. I have no clue why you're bringing up AV12 when armor value has zero application when it comes to toughness,'nids have no armored vehicles to begin with,and AV12 is smack in the middle of the armor value scale,meaning their vehicles are not that heavily armored.

If you want to go on a case by case basis instead of looking at the army as a whole,then 'nids can take T6,6 Wound,3+ armor save Tervigons as a Troops choice,so based on that criteria 'nids are tougher than Eldar.

Wishing it doesn't make it so.

Holy crap, you're late to the party. And as noted, earlier / above, Eldar can bring far more T6+ wounds to the board than Nids.

I'm just going to wave my manhood around, seeing as standard condoms don't fit it.

Do I win yet?

Mr Mystery wrote:I'm just going to wave my manhood around, seeing as standard condoms don't fit it.

Do I win yet?

Nah, because you'll probably just end up calling your manhood a hoax.

Yo momma didn't think it was a hoax.

Yeah....I went there....BURN! PSYCHE!

chaos0xomega wrote:

puma713 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

You're right, `Nids can't field T5 Sv3+ models as Troops, instead they can field T6 Sv3+ FNP models are Troops.

So you're basically putting your fingers in your ear and screaming "LALALALALALA IM NOT LISTENING LALALALALA"?
Besides that, Wraithguard are T6 Sv3+... ELDAR CAN FIELD MORE T6 SV3+ MODELS THAN TYRANIDS CAN! Sure they might not have FNP, but they make up for that in numbers.
Also, what you seem to forget is that in order to field those T6 Sv3+ FNP models as troops, you first need to field 16 or so T3 Sv5+ minis, which take up a Troops slot each. At max you can field 3 such models in troops... Eldar can field 60 T6 Sv3+ models. Do you really want to continue arguing this?

Did you just compare 6 troop units at 700 pts. to 6 troop units at 1800 pts.? Who cares -what- you can field. It's making it work that counts. That and all those poison sacs from the measly 30 T3 Sv5+ gaunts (not to mention the spawned ones - which count as troops too, btw) will have no trouble with T6 models.

Really, as others have said this really has nothing to do with the topic at hand. My closing statements to you are that you missed the point, and that wraithguard also have BS4 AP2 weapons that autowound on 2+ and will instakill your TMC's on a 6 (IIRC).

Which has to do with what exactly? The debate is which race has higher Toughness values,which the 'nids do by a ridiculous margin. They have higher Toughnesses on the whole,entry by entry. They have the highest Toughness value Troops choice,as well. Now,the argument has degenerated into,"Well....if I do this and this and this,and drop some Iyanden on you,then I can find a way to get more T6 models out than you." It's silly logic akin to saying "Dark Angels have better armor saves than Space Marines do,because you can drop more Terminators out there than Space Marines can." Not to mention that Iyanden is only one craftworld,and forces derived from other craftworlds will field nowhere near the same. DD is trying to use the exception and calling it a rule.

yes, but at the end of the day, my penis remains much larger than yours

(am I doing this right?)

Yes you are my man, make the most of it.

Mr Mystery wrote:yes, but at the end of the day, my penis remains much larger than yours

(am I doing this right?)

Drunken Dakka?

Mr Mystery wrote:yes, but at the end of the day, my penis remains much larger than yours

(am I doing this right?)

No, you're not.

But neither is anyone else, almost...

TRY TO STAY ON TOPIC HERE.

LAST WARNING.

At this rate, we'll need a new thread for the pre-orders tomorrow.

Mr Mystery, less of the +1 posts, eh?

Lets see if we can keep this alive till the pre-orders go up.
Then you can claim masculinity all you like. Actually even then you can't. either way, shutting up would be good.

piece is the optimum word.

It's no mystery who is about to catch a mod upside the head.

I hope they are going to reveal what other kits are coming out tomorrow... I know we have a good idea, but I am getting nervous that they may not revamp as much as we think they will.

In any case, should be some exciting stuff! I am very curious as to whether GK or crons will be up next...

Umm, how about a fresh lurker face to mix up the thread,

I can tell you I have been painting like mad in order to get one of my three unfinished armies done before Nov. I made a promise to myself to get at least one army done before I started another. Those Dark Eldar are just to nice to pass on...

Thread back on topic???

MajorTom11 wrote:

In any case, should be some exciting stuff! I am very curious as to whether GK or crons will be up next...

Yeah, I think I'm more excited to find out who's next than I am about the DE release.

OK.

I REALLY don't want to close this thread - as Pre-Orders are announced tomorrow.

People who ignored the PUBLIC WARNING in this thread have been... taken care of.

So, there you have it.

few i thought it was going to go off trail

can't wait unit tomorrow to see the mandrakes

Were the black boxes with the codex's real or just another hoax?

isn't it already the 5th in the UK? Any minute now! Yeah I hope they show all the rest too! I really want to see the Hellions and Scourges!

-Wardancer- wrote:isn't it already the 5th in the UK?

Sure, but it's about three in the morning.

Closer to 4 actually.

Thats no excuse!

Currently the only thing we don't know for sure about is the battleforce right?

Everything else we know is first wave, second wave or "eventually, maybe"?

Well I think It's pretty bad that they still have the old range up.

What if some poor idiot goes and buys the old codex 3 mins before the pre-orders are up!

Gwar! wrote:Well I think It's pretty bad that they still have the old range up.

What if some poor idiot goes and buys the old codex 3 mins before the pre-orders are up!

And then comes here and posts,

"Hey guys! The new DE are up on GW.com! I've already ordered some. They don't look much different than the old ones."

Its because the big secret is the new DE are limited time only things, like Space Hulk.

If you don't get them in time, you have to use the old ones still

Do we know what time roughly the site will be updated?

Can anyone guess based on previous experience?

del'Vhar wrote:

Do we know what time roughly the site will be updatged?

Can anyone guess based on previous experience?

Better yet, does anyone know if there is one iota of difference between ordering yours the day they go on pre-order and a week or more later? Makes me wonder if they fill the pre-order in order of how they receive them, or if they simply ship them all out at the same time, regardless of when you ordered yours.

puma713 wrote:

del'Vhar wrote:

Do we know what time roughly the site will be updatged?

Can anyone guess based on previous experience?

Better yet, does anyone know if there is one iota of difference between ordering yours the day they go on pre-order and a week or more later? Makes me wonder if they fill the pre-order in order of how they receive them, or if they simply ship them all out at the same time, regardless of when you ordered yours.

Why take the risk?

Better yet, does anyone know if there is one iota of difference between ordering yours the day they go on pre-order and a week or more later?

In my experience, as long as you Advance Order a week or more ahead of time you will have it on or a little before release date. However, if you are already into the week of the release it's better to just wait till the release day, the coming Saturday, and buy it at the store. If you Advance Order less than a week before release, then it will likely not be delivered by release date.

puma713 wrote:Better yet, does anyone know if there is one iota of difference between ordering yours the day they go on pre-order and a week or more later?

Anyone that preorders before the 10th gets an extra 5% off from Maelstrom.

AlexHolker wrote:

puma713 wrote:Better yet, does anyone know if there is one iota of difference between ordering yours the day they go on pre-order and a week or more later?

Anyone that preorders before the 10th gets an extra 5% off from Maelstrom.

yes, but pre-ordering from Maelstrom won't get you the items early!

yes, but pre-ordering from Maelstrom won't get you the items early!

I guess you'll have to choose between getting it fast or getting it cheap.

BrassScorpion wrote:I guess you'll have to choose between getting it fast or getting it cheap.

We still talking about codices?

Do we know what time roughly the site will be updated? Can anyone guess based on previous experience?

Recent experience has shown that for major releases they usually put the new Advance Orders up relatively early, sometime in the morning rather than the afternoon. That is morning relative to whatever country you're in. There are no guarantees of course, but for those really excited about this, set you're alarm early (or just stay up all night).

*Refresh*
*Refresh*
*Refresh*

It's like Christmas - waiting for morning for gifts.

Kroothawk wrote:Arhra is in the background text of the DE Codex. As he is firmly in the hands of Chaos (in whatever form), he is not able to lead a DE army.

It is of some comfort knowing that they at least acknowledge him now, and that we can read some new fluff about him.
Kinda disappointing that GW sent him to Chaos, but that would justify the DE wanting nothing to do with him.

In any case, thanks for excluding the potentially coolest DE character from the new Codex, GW... Very thoughtful of you.

Does any 1 know whats goign to be on advance mail order today

Doesn't look like the lazy Sons Of Horus are putting it up...

Alpharius wrote:OK.

I REALLY don't want to close this thread - as Pre-Orders are announced tomorrow.

People who ignored the PUBLIC WARNING in this thread have been... taken care of.

So, there you have it.

Taken care of in a .... Dark Eldar way...?

And STILL not updated :(
If only I could have access to interwibble while at uni

Monday's "What's New Today" is up - Reavers

Advanced orders apparently go up at noon (GMT)...

From what I gather, the preorders won't go up until noon, and there won't be anything in it you haven't seen already (hoping I'm wrong though). The remainder of the first wave will be shown off at the Italian and German gamesdays and be available to preorder a few days later.

Except the prices

I've been going to the GW site every day to see these concepts and read Jes Goodwin's commentary on them. Good stuff.

I noticed nothing is up for pre-order yet, though...not that I can afford to pre-order anything right now anyway. I wish I was a little more "prepared" for this release, but I guess that's what happens when you don't even think there's going to be a release (and you have bills out the ass). Not that I'm complaining too much, just think a little more of a heads-up would be nice.

Oh well, I hope my money will still be good enough for them in three months. I'm going to drop about $800 all on Dark Eldar models.

Anyway, I'm really curious to see what else they'll reveal this week, if anything. I want to see how the hellions came out.

Is it just me or has every single DE model been removed from the website?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440233a&rootCatGameStyle=


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Oh and a Dedicated Transport option just popped up.

Another tidbit by Frgt/10:
Black box is Codex, warriors, raider and jetbikes.
saturday 6th november at a guess the warriors, raider, wyches, jetbikes, incubi, lelith and archon will also be released on the 6th with the mandrakes, hellions, urien and ravager to be released on the 20th.
Mandrakes have stealth/infiltrate.

The two new HS slots are flyers(!):
Razorwing Fighter

Voidraven Bomber:
It is armour 11 with duel strength 9 Ap 2 dark lances, can move 36 inches, fire all weapons when moving 12, can drop a strength 8 bomb along its flight path. Costs as much as Rhino plus Ravager.

And to all people wanting Arhra in the Codex (warning, massive spoiler):

Drazhar, the generic haemonculi and the talos are the only models still up.

Kroothawk wrote:Another tidbit by Frgt/10:
Black box is Codex, warriors, raider and jetbikes.
saturday 6th november at a guess the warriors, raider, wyches, jetbikes, incubi, lelith and archon will also be released on the 6th with the mandrakes, hellions, urien and ravager to be released on the 20th.
Mandrakes have stealth/infiltrate.

The two new HS slots are flyers(!):
Razorwing Fighter

Voidraven Bomber:
It is armour 11 with duel strength 9 Ap 2 dark lances, can move 36 inches, fire all weapons when moving 12, can drop a strength 8 bomb along its flight path. Costs as much as Rhino plus Ravager.

And to all people wanting Arhra in the Codex (warning, massive spoiler):

Spoiler:

It is strongly implied in the Codex that Arhra= Drazhar!
Especially given Drazhars stats are now identical to the Eldar phoenix lords...
explains why he's a hq in his own right now as well
Drazhar isn't a pupil of anyone, he walked into the incubi inner sanctum, decapitated the heirarch and became their leader
very simple and very drazhar
he also hasn't spoken a word since entering commoragh

SO hot. Do want.... Is the Void Raven just the Raven from FW? Couldn't find it on the site, so...

"Two prototypes were sculpted onto the basic chassis: one Craftworld and one Dark, shown here. Where the Craftworld bike would feature lots of aerodynamic cowling and a uniform look..."

"Once the prototypes were finished, the Craftworld version was set aside."

"Tom took the same route as the prototype, developing a basic chassis that could be re-used in the future."

I think this sounds very positive for us Craftworld Eldar, as the prototype jetbike might indeed be released sooner or later

It's up.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440160a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

BTW preorders are up now.

Warriors and wyches are only £15!

All those prices are way less than I expected.

Almost non-sense making compared to other, comparable boxes. Now I know GW often doesn't make sense, but in a positive way for us?

Kroothawk wrote:BTW preorders are up now.

This info made my morning...

+1

I was going to say is it me or are those prices reasonable but it's obviously not just me.

Jetbikes are £2 cheaper then warbikes, why, I couldn't begin to fathom out.

Still no Hellions, they're the ones I'm waiting to see.

Is it just me or is everything really priced low?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And why are they all gingers?

Amaya wrote:And why are they all gingers?

It's just the painters' choice. Green goes well with red, purple with yellow, blue with orange, something to do with colour wheel opposites I think.

Amaya wrote:Is it just me or is everything really priced low?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And why are they all gingers?

Except the Reavers, Codex and arguably Raider, I'd say so, yes! Maybe the really do want Dark Eldar to sell well. Or Jes threatened them in a very Dark Eldar manner...


Kroothawk, great spoiler about Arhra. That is AWESOME!

Amaya wrote:Is it just me or is everything really priced low?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And why are they all gingers?

Red contrasts sharply with the both the dark colours used for the armour and the pale skin tones.

TBD wrote:All those prices are way less than I expected.

Almost non-sense making compared to other, comparable boxes. Now I know GW often doesn't make sense, but in a positive way for us?

As I said on Warseer, the Wyches only have the same number of sprues as something like the Daemonettes, so I was expecting the 15 pound price point. The Reavers are a touch cheaper than I expected, and I thought Lelith might be 10 pounds, but I'm glad I'm wrong.

At 45 AUD for Lelith, 10 Wyches and Kusanagi from Maelstrom ATM, I might get a box after all.

I don't follow that Spoiler. They ret-conned one of the most prominent figures in Eldar and Dark Eldar history (Even though he's in other parts of the codex) and gave him a new name? Thought our character in question fell to Chaos and DE can't be led by him - not only is that the rumor, but that makes sense within the timeline and the story.

Guess we'll have to see when the codex is released, but that doesn't make much sense, imo.

Amaya wrote:And why are they all gingers?

This proves Cartman was right after all

Order placed. And no, I did not just order the codex

3 raiders, 1 Archon + Incubi squad, 1 warrior squad and 1 wych squad will arrive with him. A small force to begin with

No Battleforce, I see. (Yet.)

I've noticed that most everything else is removed (save for the Talos and Haemonculi). Maybe the waves will be added as we get closer to release date. After all, "new models" are supposed to be unveiled at the next GD.

Interesting though that, although they have the old Talos and Haemonculi up, there are no Harlequins in any of the FOC slots on the website.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Holy crap - Just Dave pointed this out in the other thread, but I just saw it as well on the website (was looking for confirmation):

With Weapon Skill 9 and four attacks which ignore armour saves, plus an extra one for each point her weapon skill is higher than her foe's, Lelith can murder entire squads.

That's sick.

About right though as WS isn't that dependant on many things. And it may only apply against non IC's.

In addition - love the new stuff, yes cheaper than expected!

AA the 'dex this evening methinks..

Anyone have any idea when the Independent Retailers (like Wayland Games) will have the advanced orders up?

seems odd that the reavers are expensive. 42 bucks Canadian?
The descriptions of whats on sprue gives us some clues about new possible weapons. I see shredders and blasters still exist. The bikes have a couple new guns.

A power weapon in the wyche squads. No blasters anymore for wyches.

I'll be ordering the codex, 2 squads of wyches, and 2 raiders next pay to fill out my current 3000 points of the dark ones. Then codex in hand I'll have to see what I need to do to bring my army up to snuff.

Wow, if the WS thing is true about Lelith, she's going to make a mess.

After a closer inspection of the wyche heads, i have to say I don't really like them. There's 1 cave girl, 2 scream faces, and 1 that actually looks ok. Its a shame.

greenskinned git wrote:seems odd that the reavers are expensive. 42 bucks Canadian?

Don't buy Canadian. You don't have it as bad as Australia and New Zealand, but you're still 1/3rd more expensive than just buying from Maelstrom. Whose pre-orders have just gone up!

Can some kind soul post up pics and prices for the Blocked at Work among us?

(US $ is you can!)

Thanks!

Archon - $15
Lelith - $15
Warriors - $25
Wyches - $25
Raider - $33
Reavers - $35
Incubi - $30

Codex £17.50 / $29


Reavers £21 / $34.75


Raider £20 / $33


Incubi £18 / $29.75


Warriors £15 / $24.75


Wyches £15 / $24.75


Archon £8 / $15


Lelith £8 / $15

The pics probably won't have much new information, the most important thing is that Lelith comes with two different left arms, one with a lance and one with the dagger we've already seen.

Yay for options

wow I have been really on the fence about what my next force would be, but I may just have to jump on this bandwagon

Damn, there sure is alot of vaiety units on GW's page...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
£17.50 for a codex? LOL what a joke 2 years ago it was only £12 then 15 now 17.50...

Farmer wrote:Damn, there sure is alot of vaiety units on GW's page...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
£17.50 for a codex? LOL what a joke 2 years ago it was only £12 then 15 now 17.50...

In their defense, these new codexes are considerably larger than 3rd and 4th ed ones.

I'm considering Lelith, 1 set of Incubi, 2 sets of Warriors, 3 sets of Wyches, but I'm holding off until I get to see the codex. It looks like I'll be spending $150-200 (American) less then I expected !!! Yay for decent prices!

That actually has me really excited, I did not expect to see prices that low.

I may go ahead and start buying models in this coming month (before they go up)!

My original plan was to pick up the codex and Lelith, and wait on everything else, but I may go ahead and buy a couple of Raider, some Wyches and Warriors, and possible a unit of Incubi, to start, and work from there.

Same plan here Sainthazard.

Alright, now for the million dollar question:

Which one is a better deal (for an american): Going directly to thewarstore.com? Or maesltrom games with the 15% off coupon?

chaos0xomega wrote:Alright, now for the million dollar question:

Which one is a better deal (for an american): Going directly to thewarstore.com? Or maesltrom games with the 15% off coupon?

/shrug I buy all my stuff at an LGS that gives a 20 dollar discount for every 200 you spend.

None of the DE stuff is even up on the TWS yet anyways.

Same here. I'll be buying from my FLGS, who give me a 10% discount on small orders and a 15% discount on large orders (typically $150 or more).

chaos0xomega wrote:Alright, now for the million dollar question:

Which one is a better deal (for an american): Going directly to thewarstore.com? Or maesltrom games with the 15% off coupon?

Grab a Calculator and find out!

I'm so happy I could almost cry

My two armies were DE and Alpha Legion. The Legion pretty much went away with the new Chaos Codex, and the play style 5th edition pushed on DE was not to my liking. Consequently, I have hardly played any 40K at all in the last year.

Haha...I just got my car paid off three months ago; I know where that money is going for the next couple of months...

I didn't realize they had been posted! Lets see:
maelstrom(all prices include additional 15% coupon)/the war store(assume standard 20%)
Codex: 22.22/23.2
Lelith: 10.16/12
Archon: 10.16/12
Incubi: 22.86/23.8
Wyches/Warriors: 19.85/19.8
Raider: 25.40/26.4
Reaver: 26.66/27.8

Maelstrom will only save you/me a few bucks... I suppose the real question is how much does maelstrom charge for shipping? Thewarstore is about 6USD regardless of what you order? I never ordered from maelstrom, can someone clue me in?

I will start out with Codex, Archon and a box of Witches.

I still like the old models for the Incubi and Raiders.

Already got my hands on some Harlequins. At some point I will update my Warriors and Lelith.

chaos0xomega wrote:I suppose the real question is how much does maelstrom charge for shipping?

Shipping is free if you spend more than 10 pounds. Just remember that the 15% discount includes the normal 10% discount, it's not 25% total.

.....Maelstrom it is!!!

Though with the amount I intend on ordering, I don't think it would make much of a difference either way. It would only had a few cents per box if I got it through thewarstore.

And I didn't realize this, but Maelstrom does a tiered discount.
So through maelstrom, I can get:

Codex
Archon
Lelith
3x Incubi
1x Warrior
1x Wych
3x Raiders
3x Reavers
for 339.38!!

But I'm still left wondering if there is a way to turn them Incubi into troops... Such pretty models...

So disapointed they didn't show us anything new..... Damn GW and their secrecy!!!! On a positive note prices aren't too bad ! Especially when I get my 40 percent off for running a tournament or two for the lgs!!! I love small towns!

The price on the Raider looks nice, but then it makes the Rhino look way overpriced (as it is) by comparison. Where are my marines hanging off the rollbars? Or rollbars for that matter?

chaos0xomega wrote:I suppose the real question is how much does maelstrom charge for shipping?

See that number just below 1 and just above -1?

That's how much.

Well, here I go:

Codex
3 Boxes of Wyches
3 Boxes of Warriors
6 Raiders

That'll be the start. I'll follow on with some ravagers and more of whichever troop choice I like more I'll have to pick up some bikes and stuff out of tournament winnings I'm thinking.

These prices are very attractive indeed.

Temptation to start a new army... must resist!

Alpharius wrote:These prices are very attractive indeed.

Temptation to start a new army... must resist!

*fishslap*

Snap out of it, man!

Although, I must say. I expect a Battleforce to go up for preorder around Christmas shopping time beginning. It's a brilliant strategy to get people buying individual boxes right now, then spring out the Battleforce just in time for it to be Christmas presents.

Also, I preordered the book. And a box of Wyches. They look like they're going to be insanely fun to paint.

I was about to post I've just received the mail announcing the pre-order, but I guess I'm late :p
... On the other hand, at the risk of derailing the thread, has anyone else noticed the bit on non-dark vanilla jetbikes getting redone ?

It's so hard right now not to wip out the ye olde credit card and buy as many as I can, but I want to support my LGS so I'll have to wait for Nov : [ .

Anyone notice the blurb from Jes re: Craftworld Jetbikes?

Jes: The Reavers are perhaps the best example of the similarities and differences between Craftworld and Dark Eldar design. The Craftworld jetbike design was looking dated and had been earmarked for a future remake, so it made sense to work on the designs simultaneously. Although the basic layout of the chassis, the carapace, the rider position, the fins and the weapon pod would stay constant, the styling had to reflect the divergence of the two factions from a common root. A common chassis with maquette rider was produced as the first stage.

When I saw one of the Archon heads, the first thing that popped up in my head was: Chaos (warrior) Lord of Slaanesh!
And that Ahrha spoiler just made my day.

pretre wrote:Anyone notice the blurb from Jes re: Craftworld Jetbikes?

Jes: The Reavers are perhaps the best example of the similarities and differences between Craftworld and Dark Eldar design. The Craftworld jetbike design was looking dated and had been earmarked for a future remake, so it made sense to work on the designs simultaneously. Although the basic layout of the chassis, the carapace, the rider position, the fins and the weapon pod would stay constant, the styling had to reflect the divergence of the two factions from a common root. A common chassis with maquette rider was produced as the first stage.

This is nothing new. Pictures of those have been floating around for years now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ZOMG:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=13200009a
pics of Mandrakes, Hellions, Rakarth, and Ravagers!!!

My word the Ravager looks good. Also nice to see a squad of mandrakes there too.

OMG ravager.

So. sexx.

And for the poor sods at work:

Wow urien looks completely different from his old model still liking it though! Mandrakes look freaking awesome! Ravager I've already. Helions, eh that's a bad pic but I'm gonna save my judgment til I see better pics.

for the workblocked.
The Hellion is the first thing I'm distinctively "meh" about.

I beat you too the workblocked images.

I like it. It reminds me of the green goblin/hobgoblin of my youth

But seriously I like all of these models and Urien is just creepy gross with all the extra fleshy parts

I hate GW so much.

I already have unpainted Space Wolves, I suck at Painting, have no-one to play with IRL, YET WANT TO BUY ALL OF THESE.

Gwar! wrote:I beat you too the workblocked images.

Curse you!

But now noone can claim they can't see it, with it being hosted on both Dakka and Photobucket

Wait, are those sets still considered wave 1? Or are they 2? maybe 1.5?

I gotta start thinking paintschemes!

I'm thinking... razzle dazzle pattern on all the vehicles? Its loud, garish and clashes, which seems to be the opposite asthetic of craftworld eldar in every way... but my Tau army is already black and white... decisions decisions...

They're "wave 2". They go up for preorder on October 19th.

Hmm, wonder how long we have to wait for wave 3? I want to see some scourges damnit.

I've pre-ordered a box of Wyches and a box of Warriors, I can hardly wait.

But did you remember your Codex, Brook?

I'm in it for the tits, not the words.

Awwwwwwkward...

Oh, I just crapped a brick! Urie looks creepy-ly awesome. I don't know what else to say. Just look at it all! I'm so happy.

Fekk these all look really, really awesome, I am SO glad they had more up their sleeves!

Where my Talos at tho son???

gremmie0 wrote:Wow, if the WS thing is true about Lelith, she's going to make a mess.

There's no reason to think it's untrue. It was posted by GW on Lelith's blurb on GW.com, after all.

Urien looks like some sort of horrible bio-techmarine that got pealed out of his power armor. It's so appropriate for that picture to be released to close to Halloween.

The tentacles are scarily reminiscent of Japanese tentacle porn. I don't even wanna see how they're attached....

Gwar! wrote:I hate GW so much.

I already have unpainted Space Wolves, I suck at Painting, have no-one to play with IRL, YET WANT TO BUY ALL OF THESE.

hear hear... I've got another 2 armies to finish, trying to sell some of my old tau and now this... FML!

OMG. These bikes are amazingly cheap too! 35 bucks for three! SM bikes are 45, while juggernauts are 53!

It's now that much easier to build a jetbike army!

Also, warriors are only 10 for 25$, like guardsmen. SO SYCHED. I hate spending 37 for some crappy marines

chaos0xomega wrote:Wait, are those sets still considered wave 1? Or are they 2? maybe 1.5?

They're wave 1, coming out late November. Wave 2 won't be until next year.

Has anyone noticed that small pic of the Ravager has a DE with a bandanna wrapped around his helmet?

For those of you who were worried, the DE prisoners are still in the store.

Damn that Urien model loos cool . . . GW stop making awesome models for SCs I already have! =p

Are they redoing the Vect model? He would look so kick ass in one of those new Raider/Ravagers . . . Please don't make me have to convert one up

Oshova

These look great. I can't wait to play against them.

The statement is that there's no plans to redo Vect "as of this time", so you'll be okay.

Saldiven wrote:The tentacles are scarily reminiscent of Japanese tentacle porn. I don't even wanna see how they're attached....

You mean the things he's kind of floating over?

That's not "tentacles". It looks like it's some kind of fanged worm critter.

Erm, does that hellion have a female chest and a male head/arms?

That Urien model is SICK! Love it! BTW, Gwar for the workblocked!

The model reminds me a techmarine with a full servo!

grak wrote:Erm, does that hellion have a female chest and a male head/arms?

Sure, if that trips your trigger

grak wrote:Erm, does that hellion have a female chest and a male head/arms?

Well, I thought the head was female, but now that I look at those arms... wow. Manly. But then again, what do I know about Helion workout routines?

LoL, I was just poking fun. It is the least impressive model of the new line so far imo.

I like the new mandrakes, they look at lot more like the way I thought they should look.

Personally I don´t mind if Hellion heads or bodies are fu-gly since it don´t seems hard to replace/convert it. Skyboards look awesome and thats all what I care, both for the DE itselves and for a future "count as" bike for my farseer council (tough I shall turn it upside down to make them fit) . They will be plastic right?

Mandrakes are even better than I expected, and so is Ravager!

Wiglaf wrote:Personally I don´t mind if Hellion heads or bodies are fu-gly since it don´t seems hard to replace/convert it. Skyboards look awesome and thats all what I care, both for the DE itselves and for a future "count as" bike for my farseer council (tough I shall turn it upside down to make them fit) . They will be plastic right?

Mandrakes are even better than I expected, and so is Ravager!

Well hopefully this is the only 'static' looking Hellion. Honestly I'd Imagine using some of the Raider 'hanger ons' for hellions if they all end up being so static. It's one reason I never used Hellions originally.

The legs on the Hellion look just fine, and given that all the kits seem to be cross-compatible...

It'd be easy to use any extra torsos from the Reaver box(Jes said something about it coming with something like 6 heads and 6 torsos, if I remember right. Both male+female options, and a helmeted/unhelmeted option) for the Hellions.

It's scary, this is the first army where my wife has not found a model she dislikes.

She likes all of them. In fact she was doing something similar as that Hellion board as a Games Day entry a couple of years back, but we've not gone since 05.

I really like all of it also, especially those Mandrakes.


Just ordered her a Codex from GW so it might get here early, plus one each of the first wave and a second Warriors box from Maelstrom.

My Orks can't wait to have a scrap with these guys.

Indeed. There are sooo many possibilities of conversion with the plastic kits that seems a bit absurd complain because you don´t like a head or even a plastic torso. And still you have 3 elven armies more to choose sprues which fits your taste!

Wiglaf wrote:Indeed. There are sooo many possibilities of conversion with the plastic kits that seems a bit absurd complain because you don´t like a head or even a plastic torso.

Yes, which is what I stated, that I'd use other parts (Possibly the 'hanger ons' from Raider kits) to convert them to more dynamic poses. I never said I didn't like them, just the only example so far was very static.

Kinda similar imho.

Anyway that legs doesnt seem too hard to bend without broke them...

My problem is with that muscular arms, dark eldar chicks are meant to be evil and feminine! We should try to leave in the past that concept of DE females who look like men and men who look like girls. Or maybe this is actually an elven axiom?

Don´t start with the WoW conspiracy stuff, please. Muscled evil elves are not copyright of Blizzard. And no, Zergs didn´t inspired Tyranids neither.

Like the Mandrakes and the Ravager , both look aswome but i refuse to place that "sail" on it.
The Biotic guy model is horrible , it looks really .The Hellion looks bad , i hope they have changable heads .

Only at first glance. The two are actually pretty dissimilar if you study them more closely.

grak wrote:

Kinda similar imho.

You're right! A purple horned elf with green tattoos is JUST LIKE a black faceless elf with green tattoos!

Oh, wait, no, they're not at all alike except for both being elves with green tattoos.

These models are so awesome . Oh well seeing as I'm repainting my eldar at the moment maybe some of those reavers would fit in nicely with my new colourscheme............... Checks wallet, oh dear.

Anyone actually read the fluff parts of the codex yet? Any absolute horror stories akin to NecronxDante?

Just got the email from GW. Dark Eldar advance order now available.

The Mandrake is most impressive.

Aduro wrote:

grak wrote:

Kinda similar imho.

You're right! A purple horned elf with green tattoos is JUST LIKE a black faceless elf with green tattoos!

Oh, wait, no, they're not at all alike except for both being elves with green tattoos.

You missed the fact that the purple one has wings...

Also, AFAIK those arent tattoos on the mandrake, its warp energy I think.

Rymafyr wrote:

Wiglaf wrote:Personally I don´t mind if Hellion heads or bodies are fu-gly since it don´t seems hard to replace/convert it. Skyboards look awesome and thats all what I care, both for the DE itselves and for a future "count as" bike for my farseer council (tough I shall turn it upside down to make them fit) . They will be plastic right?

Mandrakes are even better than I expected, and so is Ravager!

Well hopefully this is the only 'static' looking Hellion. Honestly I'd Imagine using some of the Raider 'hanger ons' for hellions if they all end up being so static. It's one reason I never used Hellions originally.

Oh wow, using the pole axe hanger-on with an impossibly tilted skyboard would be insane, good idea!

Convertable from flaggelents, dark elves and greenstuff?

Wow, the Ravager is pretty fantastic, and the other mandrake poses in the group shot look really good. the sickle one might be the worst out of the lot, shame he got the close up.

grak wrote:Kinda similar imho.

If by "kinda similar" you mean "they both have green eyes," then yeah. They're "kinda similar."

On a related note, Tyranids are "kinda similar" to Charlize Theron. Because they both have green eyes.

Exuse my ignorance but who is the horned purple dude? its a pretty cool pic.