Hi all, the new Necron approach took me here. Thanks to Yak for his effort.

I'd like to point out a few thought about CC:

My biggest problem was, that in the old codex a Lord with 10 warriors came into CC beeing charged by lets say a bunch of SM. Having a 3+ armour save the SM player takes out probably 4 or 5 warriors and in return, the warriors maybe take 1 out. The following test failes. IF (which is quite rare) the comparison of initiative makes my warriors escape I can probably save 2 or 3 models with WBB.

With the information provided by Yak, now I loose more warriors (Armour save only 4+) and if I escape, the lost warriors can NOT be repaired using this new WBB. Although warriors are probably cheaper, the loss of the warriors is inevitable. As long as the warriors ar not "stubborn" or any close kind of thing, this is the biggest problem Necrons in CC have.

I hope you did unterstand my statement in my broken english.

Hey yak, what does the art look like for the doom-scythe?

Therion wrote:Large units of Warriors/Immortals are just asking to be wiped out in one brutal phase of close combat so you'll be using min-sized squads just like everyone else. It's pretty bad for Necrons that when you take small squads you won't get your repair rolls to shooting, and when you take a large squad you're putting yourself in an awful place regarding assault. The troops choices don't seem very useful at all and you'll want to invest as little points in them as you can get away with.

When it comes to Warriors - I got used to the idea that those guys have to walk their walk. Transport is a new thing, and I'm not sure if against armies that have strong CC other approach wouldn't be much more effective. We have Lyche Guards with Shields now, don't we? +3 (+4?) Inv Save. They are also a CC unit. Put them in front of your warriors in a line that won't get outflanked easily. A CC unit will have to attack Lyche Guards first in order to get to Warriors. This gives you time and chance for survival. Especially if even after wiping Guards that unit will end their turin in 12" of Warriors only to take 40 shots from a 20 model unit.

If our enemy will want to shoot our Warriors - they get a cover save due to being behind Lyche Guards. If they want to take down guards first -> look above, inv save + shield reflection capabilities.
I think of Lyche Guards as essentially "guards" who need to make sure Warriors will get to proper range, safe and sound.

I see a number of possibilities here. Simply raiding Ghost Ark and disembarking anywhere close to units that can beat the crap out of Necrons in CC is bad for Warriors.

Well if the new Necrons turn out to be kinda terrible, at least we'll be used to it!

Despite my...issues...with Matt Ward I do hope some of his trademark OTT-ness rubs off on the Crons, it'd be nice to kick some ass again.

Honestly though it's best not to get our hopes up too high, and this is coming from a Necron fanboy.

I really want to like Warriors, but it seems Immortals are just the better option (provided their upgrade to Tesla is free and the Warrior-only Ghost Ark isn't incredibly cheap/effective).


Honestly, the codex doesn't really look that strong. Are we sure Matt Ward wrote this? It's starting to sound more and more like a Cruddace codex, with a few imba options mixed in with a lot of weak stuff.

If Crons are to remain with crap troops, the fact that they are 6 points cheaper and can be taken in min squads of 5 is an improvement already. Having to spend 360 points on troops who did nothing but hide was possibly the major problem with the current codex.

Nothing can be worse than the tiny, hugely expensive 'dex we have at the moment. Who cares if warriors are still useless in cc, that's not their role on the battlefield. 18 rending Wraiths in an army is where your cc punch will come from.

Another big thanks to Kroothawk and Yakface for these rumours and their formatting.

azazel the cat wrote:

Therion wrote:Small squads of transported DE Warriors get a blaster. The trueborn get four. Marines get a meltagun. Some other Marines get two. IG Vets get three. Orks get a klaw and can get rokkits. GK Henchmen are actually all armed with special weapons, and small units of Purifiers have two psycannons each. Wracks get a liquifier...

What do those transported Necron Warriors get in the new book? What's their function? They are Space Marine Scouts that can't infiltrate now with no bp/ccw in their backpacks and a ridiculously low initiative and no ATSKNF or other special rules (BA/SW etc). They have the 5+ repair but firstly remember how small a bonus that is (you have 4 guys down, one might stand back up) and the fact that most of the time they will all be down in a phase since the opponent will be focusing the fire. What's the game plan for the Warriors except trying to hide them all game so they could claim an objective later? What's the price tag of an attached Cryptek with some anti-tank weapon like a meltagun or blaster?

Are Immortals troops automatically or does that require a special character? Even though their weapons seem to have been nerfed I can think of a lot more uses for 5man squads of Immortals in Barges or Night Scythes, than Warriors. Atleast they still got 3+ saves and guns that aren't nothing but glorified boltguns.

Large units of Warriors/Immortals are just asking to be wiped out in one brutal phase of close combat so you'll be using min-sized squads just like everyone else. It's pretty bad for Necrons that when you take small squads you won't get your repair rolls to shooting, and when you take a large squad you're putting yourself in an awful place regarding assault. The troops choices don't seem very useful at all and you'll want to invest as little points in them as you can get away with.

Oh, thank Jebus someone else sees the same problem that I do. I was worried that absolutely everyone was drinking the Kool-Aid.

Necrons versus the SM scout.

Necrons are WS4, BS4, LD10, 1 point cheaper, and have Resurrection.
Scouts have infiltrate, scout, ATSKNF, I4, and combat squads.

The necrons really outgun the scouts, and a lack of ATSKNF isn't a big deal with LD10. The gauss rifle is nothing but a glorified bolter, but the necron warrior is 75% the cost of a tac marine with access to open topped vehicles.

azazel the cat wrote:

Therion wrote:Small squads of transported DE Warriors get a blaster. The trueborn get four. Marines get a meltagun. Some other Marines get two. IG Vets get three. Orks get a klaw and can get rokkits. GK Henchmen are actually all armed with special weapons, and small units of Purifiers have two psycannons each. Wracks get a liquifier...

What do those transported Necron Warriors get in the new book? What's their function? They are Space Marine Scouts that can't infiltrate now with no bp/ccw in their backpacks and a ridiculously low initiative and no ATSKNF or other special rules (BA/SW etc). They have the 5+ repair but firstly remember how small a bonus that is (you have 4 guys down, one might stand back up) and the fact that most of the time they will all be down in a phase since the opponent will be focusing the fire. What's the game plan for the Warriors except trying to hide them all game so they could claim an objective later? What's the price tag of an attached Cryptek with some anti-tank weapon like a meltagun or blaster?

Are Immortals troops automatically or does that require a special character? Even though their weapons seem to have been nerfed I can think of a lot more uses for 5man squads of Immortals in Barges or Night Scythes, than Warriors. Atleast they still got 3+ saves and guns that aren't nothing but glorified boltguns.

Large units of Warriors/Immortals are just asking to be wiped out in one brutal phase of close combat so you'll be using min-sized squads just like everyone else. It's pretty bad for Necrons that when you take small squads you won't get your repair rolls to shooting, and when you take a large squad you're putting yourself in an awful place regarding assault. The troops choices don't seem very useful at all and you'll want to invest as little points in them as you can get away with.

Oh, thank Jebus someone else sees the same problem that I do. I was worried that absolutely everyone was drinking the Kool-Aid.

We have to see how Expensive the Cryptek Upgrades are, to be honest. If you throw a Cryptek with an Anti-tank weapon in every Squad of Warriors/Immortals It would make a massive difference. I think so far the Anti-Tank Is little less than some other armies have, but I don't see it as crippling like you and Therion do.

By the way, just because someone disagrees with you, does not mean they are drinking the Kool-Aid.

Sir Harry Flashman, VC wrote:18 rending Wraiths in an army is where your cc punch will come from.

I look forward to see many Wraiths on the battlefields 1-6 squad size is much better than 1-3 we used to have.


Don't think this was asked before - how many pages does this new codex have? Anything similar to Tyranids who got big phat chunk of fluff pages added in 5th ed?

With everyone debating CC, stats, and rules I have some more questions Yak!

@yakface: What of wraiths in particular. Are they W1 or W2? god they better be multiwound....

and point range for spyders?

IronfrontAlex wrote:With everyone debating CC, stats, and rules I have some more questions Yak!

@yakface: What of wraiths in particular. Are they W1 or W2? god they better be multiwound....

and point range for spyders?

Why on earth would they need to be multi wound? They have str 6, rending, 3++ and can be fielded in squads of 1-6 and costs pretty much the same as they did in the other codex...

azazel the cat wrote:Oh, thank Jebus someone else sees the same problem that I do. I was worried that absolutely everyone was drinking the Kool-Aid.

Yeah, Necrons are gonna suck pretty bad for sure, Matt Ward is the ruiner of worlds, etc etc. So anyway, earlier in the thread, you posted you were going to sell your Necrons in disgust, and asking people to PM you; you remember that? I PM'd you immediately after you posted that and you hadn't answered, is all, so are all those sweet destroyers up for sale? I can't imagine, ruined as Necrons now are, you got many offers, so it must have stood out. But, a sucker's born every minute, and I guess I'm your sucker! Because I'll totes take that obsolete crap off your hands, post-haste.

Unless... unless that was just throwing-your-toys-out-of-the-pram hyperbole, throwing a fit over the specifics of a codex that hasn't yet even been released? But I'm sure that's not what it was, right? I mean, whom would even do that. It would totally justify Games Workshop's strategy of not releasing anything before it ships.

So seriously, let me know your paypal. I have a totally solid rep in the Swap Shop. Go and see!

Anyone got any generalised ideas for lists?

I was thinking along the lines of:
HQ:
Stormlord
Couple of Lords/Crypteks
Maybe the guy who corrupts vehicles
Elites:
around 10 Praetorians (Probably with +3 invo setup)
around 10 Lychguard (with shields)
Either Ctan Shard or the scorpion thing with melta weps.
Troops:
2 units of 15 Immortals 1 with gauss blasters other with tesla weapons.
Fast Attack:
Maximum sized unit of scarabs
Maximum sized unit of Wraiths
Vehicles:
Probably the command barge
The doomsday barge
the other gun barge.

I was wondering about list-making myself. I'd love to toss some Deathmarks up in there, but Yak seemed pretty clear they kinda blow. On the other hand, they look fantastic and I don't really care about winning. So. I dunno.

I also wonder if I even really need transports. Can they be a viable footslogging army?

Not sure if this has already been mentioned or not but given that Destroyers are now counting as jump troops is there a chance they'd come as an alternate option in the Triarch Praetorians box (looking like heavy weapon toting Praetorians)?

Both are (if I'm correct) higher toughness and armour jump troops, and the old destroyer model is no longer available. It'd make sense to have some kind of uniform appearance across Necron Jumpers.

Ouze wrote:I was wondering about list-making myself. I'd love to toss some Deathmarks up in there, but Yak seemed pretty clear they kinda blow. On the other hand, they look fantastic and I don't really care about winning. So. I dunno.

I also wonder if I even really need transports. Can they be a viable footslogging army?

Depends, if most of the CC units can DS then definently.

Melcavuk wrote:Both are (if I'm correct) higher toughness and armour jump troops, and the old destroyer model is no longer available. It'd make sense to have some kind of uniform appearance across Necron Jumpers.

Oh god no... O_o Please. Destroyers were always the best looking, unique model in this army. Seriously jetbike-necron hybrid. I hope they won't stray away from that concept... We seriously don't need another "new look" unit which is exactly typical necro-skeltal body with some augmentations / waist band / bigger shoulderpads. Heck no! :|

I'm really excited to see how they've written up scarabs. From what I've gotten so far they seem like they'll be pretty nasty to vehicles.

I really want to see the exact wording for this rule. Such as when this less armor ability takes affect. Can these models still penetrate the armor or do they just continuously eat armor till' it wrecks that way?

so as scarabs are now if I have a strength 3 scarab I could penetrate that tank so long as it's armor was 8 or less, so will that armor eating take place before or after the attempt to penetrate?

I'm guessing the old destroyers are no longer available as they will be (apparentyl) coming out in a new kit with Heavy Destroyer options included.

I would guess that the actual models will be pretty much the same as they are now. i dont think there was anythgin really wrong with them.

I am looking forward to future pics of the Tomb-blades (the rumoured Jetbikes unit).

Wow!

now that cover art is ballin!

A belated thanks to Kroothawk and Yakface for all this. It's drastically needed, and GW certainly isn't helping with that.

A question on the C'tan.
A friend I routinely play with constantly laments being physically unable to wound my C'tan with his Space Wolves in close combat and being unable to run from it to bring his stronger shooting to bear. Despite him having Dreads, which are just as invulnerable to hand weapons and small arms fire.
Anyway.

Will S4 hurt C'tan now? Or are they still on par with Wraithlords?

Just about to start a game VS DE using Hybrid rules, i.e. New Warrior and Immortals stats and pricing. I'm amazed how much further my points stretch now

Kroothawk wrote:
Necron art from a local German GW newsletter on Necron release, first posted on Brueckenkopf website (Newsletter confirms 4 new plastic boxes, 4 Finecast characters and one new Finecast box):

Hey, just wondering, but that lord in the middle, where are his legs?

I think that the Necrons in the Ghost ark should have been made to look more deactivated, kinda like the droids in the Phantom Menace...
Some of it I like, the Immortals look kinda cool, and they needed vamping up. But then I agree with the previous posts in saying that Necrons need to look uniform and more sinister than Tomb Kings in space. They just look too ancient Egyptian-y for my liking

Ouze wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:
Necron art from a local German GW newsletter on Necron release, first posted on Brueckenkopf website (Newsletter confirms 4 new plastic boxes, 4 Finecast characters and one new Finecast box):

Hey, just wondering, but that lord in the middle, where are his legs?

Its a strange angle... and they're obscured by his weapon... he has one leg raised and perched on top of where the scarabs are spilling out and the other straight back and behind this necron vehicle/barrier/techy-thing. At least I think thats what the artist is going for... but it doesn't make too much sense... and you're right it does look like everything below the knee disappears. If he weren't a machine I'd point out how unnatural that pose is as well... unless he's rowing that boat.

Necron Warriors - Ancient kit. Every Necron player already owns heaps of them.

Immortal Kit - New shiny. Necron players own them, but as Elites, not as Troops. Now you can take 6 units, and they're plastic.


Are we at all surprised that the basic Warrior got its pendulum swing really hard and the Immortals are now the star of the Troops section?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ouze wrote:Hey, just wondering, but that lord in the middle, where are his legs?

It reminds me of a Rob Liefeld picture in the way it seems to do everything possible to hide each figure's feet. Of course, it's much better than a Liefeld picture, but still. The lack of feet (and the missing shoulder/lower torso/legs of the bodyguard to the left of the Lord) struck me as odd.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Are we at all surprised that the basic Warrior got its pendulum swing really hard and the Immortals are now the star of the Troops section?

Nope, not at all.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Necron Warriors - Ancient kit. Every Necron player already owns heaps of them.

Immortal Kit - New shiny. Necron players own them, but as Elites, not as Troops. Now you can take 6 units, and they're plastic.


Are we at all surprised that the basic Warrior got its pendulum swing really hard and the Immortals are now the star of the Troops section?

I'm not buying that as a negative. You now have more options, not less. Presumably sometimes warriors will be better, and presumably Immortals will sometimes be better.... right?

H.B.M.C. wrote:It reminds me of a Rob Liefeld picture in the way it seems to do everything possible to hide each figure's feet. Of course, it's much better than a Liefeld picture, but still. The lack of feet (and the missing shoulder/lower torso/legs of the bodyguard to the left of the Lord) struck me as odd.

IronfrontAlex wrote:With everyone debating CC, stats, and rules I have some more questions Yak!

@yakface: What of wraiths in particular. Are they W1 or W2? god they better be multiwound....

and point range for spyders?

I think I read on BoK that you can pull wound allocation shenanigans with them, and that they are W2. Now, BoK is Far less reliable than Yak is, so take that with a grain of salt.

I'm trying to think about something the new release has that we can all agree on...hmmm...

Can we all agree, that it will be (by the current rumours) a better codex than we have now? Let's face it, it wouldn't be hard.

If so, any complaint we may have about the new codex needs to be tempered by this, whatever the changes, we are overall better off. Keep that in mind. Of course, if you think going by the current rumours the old one is still better...uhh...yeah.

I would agree with that. Anythign to even partially update the army will result in more people playign it, maybe dusting off those old necrons.

I for one would love to play against something other than marines for a change.

I still maintain that it will be pretty competitive, at least for the next two months.

Yes, people will grumble about all sorts of small details (the fluff change, the new flayed ones, the amount of destroyers you can take, the hats on the Lychguard), but most will hopefully accept that much like DE last year, this is a quantum leap forward for Crons.

Now only Sisters have to escape their 3rd edition model range and get a decent Codex.

As a side note, this seems a fortuitous time, perhaps, to remind you guys that Zealot Games sells "robot mites", which look rather... familiar, and germane to this discussion. You get 6 scarabs mites and a single base for £3.20, which I imagine could also be done as 2 bases with 3 scarabs each on it if you have a lot of bases.

I never bought their product, I don't represent them, your mileage may vary, etc. But if indeed scarabs are the new hotness, it's a consideration.

Myself, I have 13 scarab bases, 10 or so of which have 4 scarabs each on them, and I'm far more inclined to turn 9 of those 4 scarab bases into 12x 3 scarab bases (15 totes).

Interesting! I guess you could say, Zealot Games "mite" be the best option! Ah hah hah hah...I'll just let myself out.

Dr. Delorean wrote:Interesting! I guess you could say, Zealot Games "mite" be the best option! Ah hah hah hah...I'll just let myself out.

Well, I chuckled...

Oh dear......

Flashman wrote:Yes, people will grumble about all sorts of small details (the fluff change, the new flayed ones, the amount of destroyers you can take, the hats on the Lychguard), but most will hopefully accept that much like DE last year, this is a quantum leap forward for Crons.

No its not, as far as myself and alot of other people are concerned this is a step back for Necrons, both in their fluff as in the overal character of the model line / army.

They are now just Tomb Kings in space with very few things that make them unique or stand out from all the other 40k races and to make it worse GW has butchered 10+ years of their own backstory just to make everything "fit" together (like a round peg in a square hole).

@Yakface
Are the immortals or any of the new minis on 40mm bases?
Would you have any idea when the rest of the range will be released? Maybe in the same way as Dark Eldar was released?

@everyone else
You all do realize that you can create whatever backstory/ fluff for your armies much in the same wY folks create your own SM chapters? Not like anyone is going to parachute in and break all your minis because you created your own story.

A few people have asked why I don't just post basically the entire codex and be done with it and others have asked for an overall opinion from me on how competitive or uncompetitive I think the new Necrons are going to be. There have also been requests to reveal the points value for a particular unit or piece of wargear.

I'm going to try to address all those questions here:


Why don't I just post basically the entire contents of the codex? Well, posting copyrighted material up online without permission from the creator is illegal and will rather quickly garner the attention of the Games Workshop legal team. Making an uber-post that basically outlines the entire codex is probably legally rather safe (although I don't know, I'm not a lawyer), but even if it is, doing so would most certainly draw the ire of the GW legal department and frankly that's not the kind of attention that I want this site to have.

But more importantly, I was granted access to this information under the precondition that I not simply give the milk away for free so nobody would then want the cow. Why exactly the source wanted that is unimportant, because I made that promise and I intend to keep it. I am very grateful that this information was passed onto me, and I intend to make sure that person feels that I kept my word.

More than that really, there are many people out there in the world (and therefore also on the internet) that seem as though they are in some sort of race to be the first to declare that something 'sucks' or is 'broken' or just generally be the first to get their opinion down as fact.

That is not my goal. The idea is to tease everyone with enough details of the Necron codex to get you excited, but to leave the decision on whether or not you think the codex is broken or 'X' unit sucks up to you. I couldn't resist myself in a few places I know (such as when describing the Deathmarks), but for the most part I've tried to minimize my commentary.

Because these are rumors and unless I were going to post the entire codex verbatim (which I'm clearly not) then any argument/discussion about the viability of units or the codex as a whole at this point is generally moot as everyone doesn't have access to the full information.

So relax! There will be plenty of time to issue your decrees on how worthless or worthwhile the codex is when you read the full rules. I, for one, don't like to pass judgements on things until I get a few games under my belt with them trying them out, so that alone gives me good enough reason not to be the first to tell you that 'X' unit sucks or 'Y' unit is broken.


I'm also not going to post every detail about every point value in the game. While I may slip here and there and give out teasers, I'm not trying to get to the point where you can figure out every point value in the codex by doing a cross-reference of different posts, so please don't ask for point values!


----


With that out of the way, let's get back to the fun business of more teaser tidbits:

A lot of people seemed to like the idea of Trazyn the Infinite (aka the Necron who likes to collect artifacts), so I figure I'd go over a bit more some of his special rules.

First, I mentioned already that he is the named character that has the wargear that allows him to wound every model of the same 'type' that are in the combat with him (read the first page summary for more details on that if you're unfamiliar). This is his weapon, which means you've only got the base attacks of the model without any power weapon properties, etc. So to get this potential wound on every model in the combat is not going to be an easy task typically.


Beyond that he's got a few more unique rules:

1) He is a scoring unit (because in reality when he's 'claiming' an objective he's really seeking to claim a hidden Necron artifact nearby, it says).

2) Anytime he is removed as a casualty, roll a D6. On a 1, he is removed as normal (but would still get a chance to use Reanimation Protocols as usual I presume as he has that special rule too), but on a 2+ you randomly choose another model from all the friendly Lychguards, Crypteks, Necron Lords and Overlords on the table (not counting named versions of those) and remove that model and replace it with Trazyn, who counts as returning to play with the same amount of wounds the model he replaces had. And it even specifies that he only gives out Kill Points when he doesn't return this way.

3) He has Mindshackle Scarabs (which is a piece of wargear that other character-type models in the army have access to). These allow the bearer to randomly pick one enemy model in base contact before any attacks are made in CC that turn. That model must pass a Ld test on 3D6. If it fails the test, it instead does D3 attacks on its own unit using the weapons/special rules of the Necron player's choice (if the model has different weapons or kinds of attacks).


So while not a powerhouse or a character that boosts the ability of your army, he is a HQ that is a scoring unit which can give you a few different tactical options.

PhantomViper wrote:

Flashman wrote:Yes, people will grumble about all sorts of small details (the fluff change, the new flayed ones, the amount of destroyers you can take, the hats on the Lychguard), but most will hopefully accept that much like DE last year, this is a quantum leap forward for Crons.

No its not, as far as myself and alot of other people are concerned this is a step back for Necrons, both in their fluff as in the overal character of the model line / army.

They are now just Tomb Kings in space with very few things that make them unique or stand out from all the other 40k races and to make it worse GW has butchered 10+ years of their own backstory just to make everything "fit" together (like a round peg in a square hole).

Judging by this thread alone, a lot more people are excited and happy about the changes. I don't think I've heard anyone say it's a "Step Back" in the Model line.

There are very few things that make these "Tomb Kings in space" Besides that they share an Egyptian theme.

You can't please everyone, But GW went the right direction with this. This fluff appeals to a broader audience, and allows for a lot more character in the army.

Wow, Trazyn sounds stone-cold awesome. He sounds more like a trickster wizard than a CC monster, and that ability to replace another character is amazing, and making someone attack their own unit is always funny. Combining this with that other character's ability to control a vehicle could lead to some nice mind-taking hilarity!

Dr. Delorean wrote:I'm trying to think about something the new release has that we can all agree on...hmmm...

Can we all agree, that it will be (by the current rumours) a better codex than we have now? Let's face it, it wouldn't be hard.

If so, any complaint we may have about the new codex needs to be tempered by this, whatever the changes, we are overall better off. Keep that in mind. Of course, if you think going by the current rumours the old one is still better...uhh...yeah.

Actually, the only thing I suppose EVERYONE will agree on about the new release is the awful look of the flayed ones...both lovers and haters of the upcoming dex...

Trazyn does sound pretty neat, he has a lot going for him, that's for sure. I am surprised at the lack of a power weapon though.

Dr. Delorean wrote:Can we all agree, that it will be (by the current rumours) a better codex than we have now? Let's face it, it wouldn't be hard.

If I were going to bet money on this I'd bet the price of a codex in 5 years (so about $66.75?) that people will scream "OMG NECRONS ARE BROKEN" for the first month, like they always do, and then when people actually play with them, we'll all find out that the codex is actually garbage but with a prettier cover. Kinda like Tyranids.

Or no, they'll be sorta playable at first and might even be kinda good, but then the FAQ will come out six months later, it'll make no sense whatsoever and will seemingly just screw over random units and change how rules work for no reason other than to give the middle finger to Necron players, and then it'll suck and only die-hard Necron fans or people who just can't afford to buy another army will stick with them, all the while wondering when they'll ever get their jetfighter or missing characters.

Sidstyler wrote:

Dr. Delorean wrote:Can we all agree, that it will be (by the current rumours) a better codex than we have now? Let's face it, it wouldn't be hard.

If I were going to bet money on this I'd bet the price of a codex in 5 years (so about $66.75?) that people will scream "OMG NECRONS ARE BROKEN" for the first month, like they always do, and then when people actually play with them, we'll all find out that the codex is actually garbage but with a prettier cover. Kinda like Tyranids.

Or no, they'll be sorta playable at first and might even be kinda good, but then the FAQ will come out six months later, it'll make no sense whatsoever and will seemingly just screw over random units and change how rules work for no reason other than to give the middle finger to Necron players, and then it'll suck and only die-hard Necron fans or people who just can't afford to buy another army will stick with them, all the while wondering when they'll ever get their jetfighter or missing characters.

What leads you to this conclusion?

I think Trazyn will actually be pretty balanced and still very viable, some of his abilities are a bit OTT without being overpowered however which screams M. Ward to me to be honest, but at least it should still be balanced.

Yak, I completely agree with pretty much everything you've said (except for the model range) and I understand your methods behind the gradual release - which has done a great job of teasing/advertising, take note GW - and inability to just show the entire thing.
All this information is much appreciated Yak and has surely done a great job of stirring up interest in the Necrons and even sales for GW.

A big thank you to our mysterious benefactor too.

Thanks for all the info so far! I have a question though. On the first page are two quotes by Yakface on Praetorians...

Yakface wrote:Praetorians: S5 T5 jump infantry. 3+ save. Have a 6" shot S5 AP2 Assault 1 power weapon staff or 2 rending swords and a 3+ inv. 40 pts each.

yakface wrote:Triarch Ptaetorians: These used to be effectively the 'police' (my term) of the main Necron ruler (the last of which was the Silent King) to help enforce his will onto the Lords of the Empire. They are known to respect great warriors and honor valor and have sometimes ordered Necron Overlords to stop attacking a foe they deemed worthy of respect (much to the Lord's chagrin). They are Jump Infantry with a 6" AP2 S5 weapon. They can swap that out for Void Blades (a weapon with Rending and the same Entriopic ability that Scarabs have) and Particle Casters (a pistol weapon). No transport option.

So which one is correct? Is the staff a power weapon? And does taking the blades grant you a 3+ invulnerable save?

I'm also very curious about the Flayed Ones: do they still have a 'fear' based ability? No need for specifics if you can't give any, just curious if there's still something there

This thread is quite a roller coaster.
I've already bought in eager anticipation and subsequently smashed with a hammer in frustrated rage five distinct Necron armies based on the prevailing mood.

Yes Trazyn appealed to many, maybe because he is possibly one of the characters that most stray from the stereotypical Necron image we all had so far. And those rules don't sound bad at all. Sure, maybe one will choose someone more fitting to killing stuff but he can play around with the enemy enough to mess him up. Ld check with 3d6? Nice! Imagine your opponent's prized hero turning his Powerfist/Klaw/Whatever against his own unit. Now imagine the look on your opponent's face when this happens.

By the way, I've been looking at that cover art and for the past 10 pages or so and I just noticed the Scarabs. Damn I must be getting old...

Yeah, all Xenos get the shaft. Just look at DE. How terrible are they? Can't people just be happy with what Yakface is offering without going off the deep-end 1 way or the other? It's like 3 weeks till the release date and all we have so far is a brief run-down of some of the options. No need to get worked up.

PhantomViper wrote:

Flashman wrote:Yes, people will grumble about all sorts of small details (the fluff change, the new flayed ones, the amount of destroyers you can take, the hats on the Lychguard), but most will hopefully accept that much like DE last year, this is a quantum leap forward for Crons.

No its not, as far as myself and alot of other people are concerned this is a step back for Necrons, both in their fluff as in the overal character of the model line / army.

They are now just Tomb Kings in space with very few things that make them unique or stand out from all the other 40k races and to make it worse GW has butchered 10+ years of their own backstory just to make everything "fit" together (like a round peg in a square hole).

Well, pretty much all of 40K is basically Fantasy in Space (with the exception of Tau and Tyranids), so ho hum.

I'd also argue that Necrons have always been Tomb Kings in Space (see the big arse floating pyramid that formed the mainstay of the army in the original Codex) and that the new fluff/models merely refines this look. IMHO they've done a respectable job in using the Egyptian theme to inform the design rather than go down the Stargate route which was unabashed Egyptians in Space.

Trazyn does sound fun. Depending on how hard he is to take down in the first place.

based on what Yakface has already posted regarding other stats in the army i would guess he would be something like T5 S5 with a 3+ save (in line with the other Elite units in the army). Maybe the HQs will stand out by way of an invul save or a built-in bonus to the new WBB rule.

It would also be cool if he passes on his scoring ability to any unit he is with, thus making objectives easier to take in the first place.






Cannot wait for this codex to come out. Might hit ebay for some late "deals" on the essentials (immortals, scarabs) and then read the codex before investing in any new units though.

yakface wrote:Ressurrection Protocols returns the model to play with a single wound unless they have a Phylactery in which case they come back (the first time they get back up) with D3 wounds.

I assume that when a model fails its ressurrection protocol that it is permanently removed from play. Or does it continue to make ressurrection roles during the following phases?

Images on Beasts of War have been erased. Hopefully we can keep the images up here.

Praxiss wrote:Might hit ebay for some late "deals" on the essentials (immortals, scarabs) and then read the codex before investing in any new units though.

Or for some decent looking Flayed Ones...

wyomingfox wrote:

yakface wrote:Ressurrection Protocols returns the model to play with a single wound unless they have a Phylactery in which case they come back (the first time they get back up) with D3 wounds.

I assume that when a model fails its ressurrection protocol that it is permanently removed from play. Or does it continue to make ressurrection roles during the following phases?

While I haven't read the codex, I'm almost positive that it gets permanently removed if it fails it's rez save.

Thulsa Doom wrote:Images on Beasts of War have been erased. Hopefully we can keep the images up here.

Did they say why?

Flashman wrote:

Thulsa Doom wrote:Images on Beasts of War have been erased. Hopefully we can keep the images up here.

Did they say why?

I imagine Games Workshops amazing business plan is threatened by pics of their new products which they refuse to release themselves.

Yes, I've just looked and it says images removed at the request of the copyright owner. Incoming from GW's legal team, Yak!

EDIT - Even the names of the new stuff has been blacked out / blurred

Supposedly they're doing some kind of live video about this release, maybe taking the pictures down is somehow related to that?

Dr. Delorean wrote:Supposedly they're doing some kind of live video about this release, maybe taking the pictures down is somehow related to that?

It specifically says "images removed at the request of the copyright owner" which is presumably GW

Flashman wrote:Yes, I've just looked and it says images removed at the request of the copyright owner. Incoming from GW's legal team, Yak!

EDIT - Even the names of the new stuff has been blacked out / blurred

This is so pathetic, it almost makes me not want to buy into the release.

I've just found this strange video from BOW;

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/new-necron-megalith-revealed/

blood reaper wrote:I've just found this strange video from BOW;

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/new-necron-megalith-revealed/

Yes, I watched that. I think they're pulling GW's chain

blood reaper wrote:I've just found this strange video from BOW;

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/new-necron-megalith-revealed/

what the hell did I just see? I hope this is not true, as it looks like a giant gimmick machine.

I suspected that this would happen so when I was writing an article about those leaked pics, I copied them instead of linking.

http://podgk.pl/kontuar/warhammer-40k-necrons-juz-w-listopadzie-mamy-fotki/

I wonder how fast will GW poke our chief editor to take those down as well

PS: You can select language but translator is google based and it won't be a pleasant read

My main fear with the necrons is point wise. I wonder if they will remain really expensive to take to the battlefield once again...

In my local game shop we play at a standard of 1500pts...I wonder how many things we will be able to take with those

I'm quite sure its fake, it does not look real.

Kilink wrote:My main fear with the necrons is point wise. I wonder if they will remain really expensive to take to the battlefield once again...

In my local game shop we play at a standard of 1500pts...I wonder how many things we will be able to take with those

i think all that's been "confirmed" so far is that Warriors and Immortal will be cheaper (by about 20% i think...can't remember now) and Wraiths will be about the same (but with bigger units and Rending included)

I don't understand what Beasts of War is trying to do with that new video. Is that a joke?

blood reaper wrote:I've just found this strange video from BOW;

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/new-necron-megalith-revealed/

That was posted on april first. lol

Praxiss wrote:

Kilink wrote:My main fear with the necrons is point wise. I wonder if they will remain really expensive to take to the battlefield once again...

In my local game shop we play at a standard of 1500pts...I wonder how many things we will be able to take with those

i think all that's been "confirmed" so far is that Warriors and Immortal will be cheaper (by about 20% i think...can't remember now) and Wraiths will be about the same (but with bigger units and Rending included)

Yes I know that but assuming we take the minimum troop choices and a Necron Overlord as HQ we would be talking about 120 points+ whatever the necron lord costs with his upgrades. I'm wondering if heavy support and dedicated transports are as cheap as the troops...

Ysclyth wrote:

blood reaper wrote:I've just found this strange video from BOW;

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/new-necron-megalith-revealed/

That was posted on april first. lol

DAM YOU BEASTS OF WAR!

blood reaper wrote:I've just found this strange video from BOW;

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/new-necron-megalith-revealed/

Seeing as it is made of a monolith, some cities of death terrain, some fantasy terrain and a few tyranids I doubt it is genuine

Yes, as I stated it's just BoW sticking two fingers up at GW for making them take down the images.

What makes me sadly chuckle, is GW is doing its usual come down on the situation with a ten ton hammer, where as if they stopped for a second.

How much of a buzz have these images given the community, how many folks are now talking about getting Necrons.

Are they really that blind, they can't see the connection. Or understand why in New York Comic Con just passed both Marvel and DC where scrambling to spoiler upcoming stories to build a buzz for them.

Just makes you shake your head that some of these people have got into such positions running 'any' company, never mind one that always thrived and grew on its fans backing and supporting the product, even before the Net.

Yeah, GW are being twits doing that. People are advertising their new products and getting people to buy them, should GW not be happy?

blood reaper wrote:Yeah, GW are being twits doing that. People are advertising their new products and getting people to buy them, should GW not be happy?

No publicity is bad publicity, them forcing it to be taken down, has us talking about it. When they come up on the GW site, we'll be talking about it. Leaks are more often than not manufactured for this very reason.

Ysclyth wrote:

blood reaper wrote:Yeah, GW are being twits doing that. People are advertising their new products and getting people to buy them, should GW not be happy?

No publicity is bad publicity, them forcing it to be taken down, has us talking about it. When they come up on the GW site, we'll be talking about it. Leaks are more often than not manufactured for this very reason.

Good call. I'm halfway through this "Megalith" video, and I'm laughing. So hard.

This will almost certainly be down to watermarking the copyrighted images from next months WD to feth with BoW logos.

In that regard, BoW are totally out of order.

This is epic. I still wonder how things get leaked.

Just played a game with the modded Warriors and Immortals and rending Wraiths VS DE. My mate won 10 KP's to 9, but it was a very close, bloody and enjoyable game.

Just a quick question for Yak, are the Wraiths still S6 I6 as standard or is this only available via wargear i.e. the rumoured whips?

Kilink wrote:

Praxiss wrote:

Kilink wrote:My main fear with the necrons is point wise. I wonder if they will remain really expensive to take to the battlefield once again...

In my local game shop we play at a standard of 1500pts...I wonder how many things we will be able to take with those

i think all that's been "confirmed" so far is that Warriors and Immortal will be cheaper (by about 20% i think...can't remember now) and Wraiths will be about the same (but with bigger units and Rending included)

Yes I know that but assuming we take the minimum troop choices and a Necron Overlord as HQ we would be talking about 120 points+ whatever the necron lord costs with his upgrades. I'm wondering if heavy support and dedicated transports are as cheap as the troops...

I think Yak said in an earlier post that the Monolith is going to be a few points cheaper. The H-Destroyer is now an add-on for Destroyer sqauds so i'm guessing they will be moved to Fast Attack. I dont think anythgin has been mentioned about points for the rest of the Heavy stuff yet, but so far the existing unit have either stayed the same or gotten cheaper so hopefully this will cary through to the Spyders as well.

What a load of BS

yakface wrote:

• Heavy Destroyers are still 36" S9 shots.

I just want to point out that heavy destroyers are 48" in the current edition.

I keep coming up with questions while test rolling for these new rules -heres another one: I thought I read somewhere that entropic strike ignores armor saves on rolls of 4+ that also cause wounds (to wound values are still SvT based). Is there any validity to that or was that a falsehood sprinkled amongst early rumors?

Hi all, been lurking since the leaks for new necrons came in, finally got vaught up on the thread (yes i read it all lol)

First like many others want to say thanks for all th hard work giving us all this information to yak and kroot.

I have to say though im overall very saddened by what we know of the new codex so far and yes i DO prefer the old one.

1) I loved the old fluff of a legion of uniform ancient evil robots threatening everything - yes I can still play this in game play terms, but not in fluff terms as that simply isnt the case anymore (lots of fractured worlds not the single big threat).

2) main army i prefered (even though its not the best under current rules) is the warrior horde backed by a cple of monoliths (again its the whole fluffiness of the uniform legion etc)
With what we know of the new codex this list is severely weekened.

For example 2,200 ish of warriors/liths old dex (ignoring command for simplification) 2 monoliths 100 warriors
Now this dex both are cheaper but both have been nerfed

The same 2 liths and 100 warriors cost aparently around 1600, but:
the warriors are 1 save worse, 1 wbb worse, guns no longer auto wound on 6 no matter toughness
monoliths are easier to destroy, can no longer pull units from cc and no longer give wbb rerolls.

Now I can use the 600 ish points to add a lord and orb to each unit using the royal court, which brings them to about the same cost, but only brings thier wbb back upto the same (and can be removed by losing the lord as well), all the other nerfs are still there, so its a weaker army for the same points, when it was already not overly good before!

3) The models, a cple of them are not bad (with minor conversion work, and i love having plastic immortals, but for the most part dont like them.

4) I like the concept of the ghost ark, but for its cost the effect is bad, since it halves the maximum unit size of also weakened warriors the chance of the squad being around long is reduced, and to make up its points both the squad and the ark need to be around 4-5 turns, otherwise getting more warriors is far superior since it more than makes up for the warriors the ark repairs and makes the squad harder to kill outright. Unless theres a way to take 2 for a unit of 20, this is sadly a bust imo.

5) They should have made flayed ones troops and kept immortals elite - that still leaves a good range elite infantry and adds a good melee troop infantry and since a lot have been wanting flayed as troops would have also sold a lot more models (if they kept the old ones instead of the new hideous ones).

6) Destroyers have been overneferd, they should at least have let us keep the units of 1-5, units of 1-3 are useless.

7) The lychguard are about the same price as the old pariahs and have warscythes, but its lost its ability to ignore invulnerable saves and its built in blaster - if it kept them and just lost the anti psyker powers it would have been a big improvement.

Im not all doom and gloom and theres some good, i like the larger units of wraiths with options, the scarabs sound great, the triach stalker could be good, but for me theres far more bad (oe indifferent) than good, a real dissapointment after so many years.

Im not rage quitting, and will wait and see, but from all we know so far, im a very UNhappy camper

Kevin949 wrote:

yakface wrote:

• Heavy Destroyers are still 36" S9 shots.

I just want to point out that heavy destroyers are 48" in the current edition.

Only if you include their 12" movement. The Heavy Gauss Cannon is 36" S9 Ap2 Heavy1

chaos0xomega wrote:

peebzguy wrote:

Ascalam wrote:3 scarabs to a base. 30 bases. i see no issue here.

He said a 90 scarab swarm, not 90 scarab swarms..

Thank you Ascalam. For those who don't get it - 3 scarabs per swarm base, up to 10 per swarm, that's 30 "scarabs" per swarm, times 3 swarms... = 90, amiright?

But everyone knows that scarabs come four to a base: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440257a&prodId=99120110001

You mean 2?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440259a&prodId=99060110003


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Praxiss wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

yakface wrote:

• Heavy Destroyers are still 36" S9 shots.

I just want to point out that heavy destroyers are 48" in the current edition.

Only if you include their 12" movement. The Heavy Gauss Cannon is 36" S9 Ap2 Heavy1

Uh, in my current codex the heavy destroyers are 48" range. in this NEW codex, it's reduced to 36".

3rd edition Necrons don't have a single 48" gun, Kevin.

Aren't those the old OOP scarabs?

Praxiss wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

yakface wrote:

• Heavy Destroyers are still 36" S9 shots.

I just want to point out that heavy destroyers are 48" in the current edition.

Only if you include their 12" movement. The Heavy Gauss Cannon is 36" S9 Ap2 Heavy1

Uh, in my current codex the heavy destroyers are 48" range. in this NEW codex, it's reduced to 36".

Praxiss wrote:Aren't those the old OOP scarabs?

Ya, but they still use that picture on the GW site.

Its defo 36", nothing in the current dex is 48".

Anyone know if Wraiths retain S6 I6?

MasterSlowPoke wrote:3rd edition Necrons don't have a single 48" gun, Kevin.

I think they changed it between printings, because I have a copy of the first printing on my phone and it does say 36" but I KNOW that in the second printing it is 48".

Just a thought; won't Necrons be too frail a model for finecast? When you think how thin the limbs on them are won't that make them super bendy/fragile/difficult not to damage/fix?

Slipstream wrote:Just a thought; won't Necrons be too frail a model for finecast? When you think how thin the limbs on them are won't that make them super bendy/fragile/difficult not to damage/fix?

Not really. Dark Eldar are also pretty thin, and they did those in finecast with hardly any problems.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Slipstream wrote:Just a thought; won't Necrons be too frail a model for finecast? When you think how thin the limbs on them are won't that make them super bendy/fragile/difficult not to damage/fix?

Not really. Dark Eldar are also pretty thin, and they did those in finecast with hardly any problems.

Lt. Coldfire wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Slipstream wrote:Just a thought; won't Necrons be too frail a model for finecast? When you think how thin the limbs on them are won't that make them super bendy/fragile/difficult not to damage/fix?

Not really. Dark Eldar are also pretty thin, and they did those in finecast with hardly any problems.

what? They turned out all right. I saw some amazing DE finecasts, that didn't have any flaws on them. And IRL too, owned by actual people. That I met.

Dark Eldar are also pretty thin, and they did those in finecast with hardly any problems.

I've seen plenty of problems, exchanges and repairs done with filler on the DE Finecasts, especially the Wracks box set.

BrassScorpion wrote:

Dark Eldar are also pretty thin, and they did those in finecast with hardly any problems.

I've seen plenty of problems, exchanges and repairs done with filler on the DE Finecasts, especially the Wracks box set.

+1. My brother said the weapons on his wracks snapped in his carrying case on the way home from a tournament.

BrassScorpion wrote:

Dark Eldar are also pretty thin, and they did those in finecast with hardly any problems.

I've seen plenty of problems, exchanges and repairs done with filler on the DE Finecasts, especially the Wracks box set.

Really? Huh, never noticed. All the my opponents who play DE seem to have decent finecast models. But then again, I don't play against DE often.

Guess I'm wrong then. Derp.

blood reaper wrote:I've just found this strange video from BOW; http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/new-necron-megalith-revealed/

Beasts of War
An Old One to Brighten up a rainy (for us) Wed Night

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/new-necron-megalith-revealed/

And yes its a joke...

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:

Dark Eldar are also pretty thin, and they did those in finecast with hardly any problems.

I've seen plenty of problems, exchanges and repairs done with filler on the DE Finecasts, especially the Wracks box set.

Really? Huh, never noticed. All the my opponents who play DE seem to have decent finecast models. But then again, I don't play against DE often.

Guess I'm wrong then. Derp.

Well, at least we now know you were serious! I've heard a lot of bad things about finecast which includes warping from heat, and I'm assuming thin parts are going to really get warped up if not sooner, then later.
I'm a failiure at green stuff touch ups, filing, etc, so personally I won't touch a finecast model. Stuff like that is a chore to me, and I expect to get paid for chores, not pay to do them.

This Finecast review pretty much mirrors what I see during my time in GW stores. I always open the few Finecast sets I buy at the store to resolve any problems while there. And though I've only bought a few, I have had exchanges while in store too.

http://davetaylorminiatures.blogspot.com/2011/09/might-makes-right-ironblaster-and.html

I have not had the best experience with finecast DE. Besides the gobs of flash to remove, and the crater filling, thin pieces regularly arrived in the box unattached or missing.

Wracks- lots of flash, chains missing
Lelith- Chin and stomach detail filled with craters
Archon- ok except for one head had that orange rubber in the eye (possible but difficult to remoce)
Haemi- fine
Succubus- Head missing.

I got replacements or my money back in most cases. But still, a bit perplexing as the cost is higher than metal or plastic.

I'm sure initially we will see the same issues with Necron finecast. But also have faith that the process is being finetuned and perhaps the finecast will be much cleaner next time around.

Did you guys see the crazy 325-ish points Mega Monolith that Beasts of War covered? Curious to know if its one solid piece or integrated into the table with the mechanism is below it.

Here's the link:

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/new-necron-megalith-revealed/

Avro wrote:Did you guys see the crazy 325-ish points Mega Monolith that Beasts of War covered? Curious to know if its one solid piece or integrated into the table with the mechanism is below it.

Here's the link:

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/new-necron-megalith-revealed/

nectarprime wrote:

Avro wrote:Did you guys see the crazy 325-ish points Mega Monolith that Beasts of War covered? Curious to know if its one solid piece or integrated into the table with the mechanism is below it.

Here's the link:

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/new-necron-megalith-revealed/

lol this thread is the gift that keeps on giving.

Avro wrote:Did you guys see the crazy 325-ish points Mega Monolith that Beasts of War covered? Curious to know if its one solid piece or integrated into the table with the mechanism is below it.

Here's the link:

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/new-necron-megalith-revealed/

Avro wrote:Did you guys see the crazy 325-ish points Mega Monolith that Beasts of War covered? Curious to know if its one solid piece or integrated into the table with the mechanism is below it.

Here's the link:

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/new-necron-megalith-revealed/

*sniff* *sniff*
I smell trolls...
But Yh this clip never gets old wish it was real
Mind you; megalith= and one packet of quavers.

lol facepalm of death.

BUT for cereals, it's the first mechanized product that GW has made. Quite cool


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No trolling, unless I was trolled when I read the posts?.............

Wait. The tomb stalker isn't in the codex? :< I thought it was a gorgeous model. Totally fits with the new fluff direction too.

Green sticks are basically gone then, eh? Guess we'll just have to paint them

No metals either. Has GW even put out a new metal model since finecast's been implemented? I'm scared D:

Does anyone remember the 6th edition rumors that suggested movement and close combat would resolve before shooting? That would make the scarab ability pretty nifty, as you would not actually have to kill the tank with scarabs, just drop the AV enough that any old gun could pop through. Multiunit charge a bunch of camping tranports with scarabs and then the weapon arrays on the arks to target individually each of the reduced AV tanks. Maybe this entropic ability is the necron melta?
Come to think of it, the rumored odd mechanics of the Deathmarks may change in value dramitically if the rumored sniper and overwatch rules come to pass.
There may be synergies planned for this codex that we will not be aware of until next summer, and early declarations of the value of units could shift dramatically.

No metals either. Has GW even put out a new metal model since finecast's been implemented?

Finecast replaced the metal pewter alloy for the models that were and would have been metal. All those new sculpts you see in Finecast would have been metal (e.g., Necron Overlords, Ogre Firebelly, Dark Eldar Wracks, etc.) before the change to Finecast, but GW is no longer producing new sculpts in pewter and all the old pewter range will eventually make the change as well. Indeed, much of it already has. How did anyone miss this news? (rhetorical)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Avro wrote:Did you guys see the crazy 325-ish points Mega Monolith that Beasts of War covered? Curious to know if its one solid piece or integrated into the table with the mechanism is below it.

Here's the link: http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/new-necron-megalith-revealed/

Again on this page? One more time:

Beasts of War
An Old One to Brighten up a rainy (for us) Wed Night

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/new-necron-megalith-revealed/

And yes its a joke...

That joke originally was posted last April. Guess which day in April.

Peebzguy.....LOVE that sig!!!!

My Necrons = sold For a pretty penny too, I might add.

I guess I'll have to play something Imperial if I want any shot at GW remaining loyal to the existing fluff.

Zacharia why dont you wait and see what is in the codex before you shred it like that. Instead of the autowound/autoglance they have the autoglance on gauss and give you two extra wounds if you roll a 6 with a tesla weapon. Also as much as the arks are in fact troop carriers I think they are more for support, sitting one behind a couple groups of warriors as you advance while the flyer troop carrier is your aggressive carrier. Lots of people have discussed the fact that the ghost ark is fragile and I think in all fairness with the ability to regenerate d3 warriors in all the squads within something like 3" (I think), its way more versatile than a rhino or something. If you have been playing with the ancient codex, I'd be willing to bet that this one will be way better. As for the weakening of individual units, it points to the fact that units will have to work together in terms of shields and such.

Abaddon wrote:My Necrons = sold For a pretty penny too, I might add.

I guess I'll have to play something Imperial if I want any shot at GW remaining loyal to the existing fluff.

i am compeletly ok with GW not being loyal to extremely limited and IMO not super interesting fluff

Why are people shocked that the Tomb Stalker isn't in the codex? Did the SM and IG codexes include the newest FW models and I just missed it?

UltraPrime wrote:Why are people shocked that the Tomb Stalker isn't in the codex? Did the SM and IG codexes include the newest FW models and I just missed it?

Well its not that new, and it would have been cool.

Im not shocked, it would have been cool if it was included.

Ysclyth wrote:I have not had the best experience with finecast DE. Besides the gobs of flash to remove, and the crater filling, thin pieces regularly arrived in the box unattached or missing.

Wracks- lots of flash, chains missing
Lelith- Chin and stomach detail filled with craters
Archon- ok except for one head had that orange rubber in the eye (possible but difficult to remoce)
Haemi- fine
Succubus- Head missing.

I got replacements or my money back in most cases. But still, a bit perplexing as the cost is higher than metal or plastic.

I'm sure initially we will see the same issues with Necron finecast. But also have faith that the process is being finetuned and perhaps the finecast will be much cleaner next time around.

Sorry, this has been preached to death on other forums, but I'll add it here too.
The increased cost comes down to this... Quality Control. When making metal models, the guys running the molds would have time to look at each of the metals as it was coming out. Any rejects went back into the melting pot with only a little wasted time. No so with resin. The speed of production has picked up because the resin sets faster. Not only that, is it harder to see problems (the flash seems to hide a lot), but when you do have rejects you can't reuse the material.

GW claims that the switch to Finecast wasn't about profit margins, but providing a better product at a more stable price. Translate that to mean: "We are as sick of price increases as you are and we need to stabilize our profit margin, so we are switching to resin. Here's a scraper and a bottle of liquid greenstuff you can buy. Deal"

UltraPrime wrote:Why are people shocked that the Tomb Stalker isn't in the codex? Did the SM and IG codexes include the newest FW models and I just missed it?

IG got the Hydra, Manitcore, Valkyrie, Griffon and various Leman Russ variants which used to (and some of still are) FW only.

Space Marines did also get the drop pop another item that used to be FW only.

Not to forget Tyranids getting the Trygon.

Some of the recent codexes have had units that either are or were FW only. The Tomb Stalker would have been a rather kool thing to have been able to take without Apoc or arguments in standard games.

A lot of the new FW Space Marine or IG stuff came out after the codexes got released. And a lot of the recent stuff is super heavies which would unbalance the game a lot.

Maybe this is a little off topic but does anybody know how they got the tomb stalker paint to be almost chromed? I love that look.

Yakface is there any examples of the Tomb Stalkers improved defense against provision attacks for units in the new codex.

Deleted.

(Ninja'd by alphaomega)

The necrons were a limited army in selection, age and fluff. This is a wipe/reset that will allow them to finally pile in better items. It was said that FW held off working on the Necron line just for this update. Tomb Stalkers are still legal in every friendly game you will ever play, just ask your opponent first. If there is an issue, well there are several shinny new items that reside in the new book you can proxy.

Kendo wrote:Does anyone remember the 6th edition rumors that suggested movement and close combat would resolve before shooting? That would make the scarab ability pretty nifty, as you would not actually have to kill the tank with scarabs, just drop the AV enough that any old gun could pop through. Multiunit charge a bunch of camping tranports with scarabs and then the weapon arrays on the arks to tagert individually each of the reduced AV tanks. Maybe this entropic ability is the necron melta? There may be synergies planned for this codex that we will not be aware of until next summer, and early declarations of the value of units could shift dramatically.

I completely agree.

And under those rumored rules, Monoliths will also still be plenty tough enough against anything other than melta. Warriors may also have their place in a system that rewards disembarked troop units holding objectives throughout the game. Ten Warriors at the rumored price per is a fairly cheap and reasonably solid objective-sitter.

aka_mythos wrote:

Ouze wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:
Necron art from a local German GW newsletter on Necron release, first posted on Brueckenkopf website (Newsletter confirms 4 new plastic boxes, 4 Finecast characters and one new Finecast box):

Hey, just wondering, but that lord in the middle, where are his legs?

Its a strange angle... and they're obscured by his weapon... he has one leg raised and perched on top of where the scarabs are spilling out and the other straight back and behind this necron vehicle/barrier/techy-thing. At least I think thats what the artist is going for... but it doesn't make too much sense... and you're right it does look like everything below the knee disappears. If he weren't a machine I'd point out how unnatural that pose is as well... unless he's rowing that boat.

The pose is a basic ready stance for chinese martial art / wushu.
Though the right hand is grasped wrong ( for a bladed weapon )
It would be ok if its a staff or spear with no specific edge to one side.

LunaHound wrote:
Though the right hand is grasped wrong ( for a bladed weapon )
It would be ok if its a staff or spear with no specific edge to one side.

I'm sure the guy is just, you know, holding it.

I doubt that the Necrons practice an ancient Chinese martial arts from Earth 43 thousand years in the past.

mattyrm wrote:

LunaHound wrote:
Though the right hand is grasped wrong ( for a bladed weapon )
It would be ok if its a staff or spear with no specific edge to one side.

I'm sure the guy is just, you know, holding it.

I doubt that the Necrons practice an ancient Chinese martial arts from Earth 43 thousand years in the past.

Yet im sure the artist doesn't know how to make a cool stance without reference.

hence *cough.

btw martial art is martial art. art of using weaponry. it doesnt matter if chinese used it or a cavemen used it,
or perhaps some eldarwarlock with singing spear use it. the point is, martial art is designed in a way to be efficient and correct.

Same way you dont see space marine holdng bolters with their feet because its not like modern earth 43 thousand years in the past.

Well **** me, Bayonetta.

mattyrm wrote:

LunaHound wrote:
Though the right hand is grasped wrong ( for a bladed weapon )
It would be ok if its a staff or spear with no specific edge to one side.

I'm sure the guy is just, you know, holding it.

I doubt that the Necrons practice an ancient Chinese martial arts from Earth 43 thousand years in the past.

Proof?

Since none of the new models have green rods, are the current destroyers, warriors, monolith, etc. being repackaged to include non-green rod parts?

Im not looking to start an argument.

Im happy the artist now days are bald and are exploring cool things from other culture.
The mistake isnt a big deal, especially if its not a common knowledge.
So no need to defend them as if im bashing GW.

mattyrm wrote:

LunaHound wrote:
Though the right hand is grasped wrong ( for a bladed weapon )
It would be ok if its a staff or spear with no specific edge to one side.

I'm sure the guy is just, you know, holding it.

I doubt that the Necrons practice an ancient Chinese martial arts from Earth 43 thousand years in the past.

lol, I have to agree with this.

Actually...I think the green rods may still exist. If you look closely at the models you could see that there is a component that looks like the green rod. It's like that they were just just painted over.

And of course, there is the Codex Cover, which does show the green rods.

BrassScorpion wrote:

No metals either. Has GW even put out a new metal model since finecast's been implemented?

Finecast replaced the metal pewter alloy for the models that were and would have been metal. All those new sculpts you see in Finecast would have been metal (e.g., Necron Overlords, Ogre Firebelly, Dark Eldar Wracks, etc.) before the change to Finecast, but GW is no longer producing new sculpts in pewter and all the old pewter range will eventually make the change as well. Indeed, much of it already has. How did anyone miss this news? (rhetorical)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Avro wrote:Did you guys see the crazy 325-ish points Mega Monolith that Beasts of War covered? Curious to know if its one solid piece or integrated into the table with the mechanism is below it.

Here's the link: http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/new-necron-megalith-revealed/

Again on this page? One more time:

Beasts of War
An Old One to Brighten up a rainy (for us) Wed Night

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/new-necron-megalith-revealed/

And yes its a joke...

That joke originally was posted last April. Guess which day in April.

Aaaaaah..........my mistake then!

Sorry for causing all these shenanigans. I'll have to double-check my sources before blurting it out.

necron fluff wasn't limited it was just not expanded on baring in mind they were introduced in 3rd ed like dark eldar, its not so surprising considering how 'young' they are Both of had limited time to develop new ideas for while gw got distracted and began focusing on other armies Simply wiping the slate clean is piss poor attitude in my book and i fecking hate it.

I am not impressed with this space khemri bollocks. Feck off GW....

now were are my necromunda vampires...

nectarprime wrote:

mattyrm wrote:

LunaHound wrote:
Though the right hand is grasped wrong ( for a bladed weapon )
It would be ok if its a staff or spear with no specific edge to one side.

I'm sure the guy is just, you know, holding it.

I doubt that the Necrons practice an ancient Chinese martial arts from Earth 43 thousand years in the past.

lol, I have to agree with this.

Yet if someone drew or sculpted a Imperial Guardsman resting the gun's butt on their faces when firing, i doubt anyone would use those 2 same reasoning's.

Over on warseer Bramgaunt posted this pic of the last model to be released, the cryptek.

http://s14.directupload.net/images/111019/f5n9m8p2.png

He also confirmed that Flayed ones are Finecast and immortals and deathmarks are the same multi-plastic kit

Deathmarks are plastic? Colour me corrected (and surprised). And the ugly Flayed Ones are made Failcost? That's like a double whammy of suck.

And the Cryptek looks a little silly.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Deathmarks are plastic? Colour me corrected (and surprised). And the ugly Flayed Ones are made Failcost? That's like a double whammy of suck.

And the Cryptek looks a little silly.

Yeah, he looks like a Deathmark that's been crossed with a lord.

LunaHound wrote:Im not looking to start an argument.

Im happy the artist now days are bald and are exploring cool things from other culture.
The mistake isnt a big deal, especially if its not a common knowledge.
So no need to defend them as if im bashing GW.

You know, you don't have to refer Chinese martial arts to point out the guy is holding the Staff of Light the wrong way for a single side blade weapon. Some may think you're nitpicking or something...

And maybe he just fired it off. A palm down grip gives better swivel control then a palm up grip.

There are many different ways to grip a shaft in which angle and preference may play a role, so lets leave it at that and move on.

His Master's Voice wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Im not looking to start an argument.

Im happy the artist now days are bald and are exploring cool things from other culture.
The mistake isnt a big deal, especially if its not a common knowledge.
So no need to defend them as if im bashing GW.

You know, you don't have to refer Chinese martial arts to point out the guy is holding the Staff of Light the wrong way for a single side blade weapon. Some may think you're nitpicking or something...

And maybe he just fired it off. A palm down grip gives better swivel control then a palm up grip.

I think that's a warscythe...

Yeah I'm disappointed with the Cryptek, I was hoping for something a bit more unique, but I'm happy with everything else

The Cryptek is one of the few models I have seen from this release that I like. That and the immortal/deathmarks.

zacharia wrote:Hi all, been lurking since the leaks for new necrons came in, finally got vaught up on the thread (yes i read it all lol)

First like many others want to say thanks for all th hard work giving us all this information to yak and kroot.

I have to say though im overall very saddened by what we know of the new codex so far and yes i DO prefer the old one.

1) I loved the old fluff of a legion of uniform ancient evil robots threatening everything - yes I can still play this in game play terms, but not in fluff terms as that simply isnt the case anymore (lots of fractured worlds not the single big threat).

2) main army i prefered (even though its not the best under current rules) is the warrior horde backed by a cple of monoliths (again its the whole fluffiness of the uniform legion etc)
With what we know of the new codex this list is severely weekened.

For example 2,200 ish of warriors/liths old dex (ignoring command for simplification) 2 monoliths 100 warriors
Now this dex both are cheaper but both have been nerfed

The same 2 liths and 100 warriors cost aparently around 1600, but:
the warriors are 1 save worse, 1 wbb worse, guns no longer auto wound on 6 no matter toughness
monoliths are easier to destroy, can no longer pull units from cc and no longer give wbb rerolls.

Now I can use the 600 ish points to add a lord and orb to each unit using the royal court, which brings them to about the same cost, but only brings thier wbb back upto the same (and can be removed by losing the lord as well), all the other nerfs are still there, so its a weaker army for the same points, when it was already not overly good before!

You are negating the fact of phase out being gone. seems like everyone is not taking that into consideration. And also, you should have to play a new codex different then the old codex.

At least the cryptek has the single eye of the deathmarks, so with a bit of mixing and matching left over bits you might be able to make plastic ones from the destroyer and lychguard or praetorian kits. That pose is just a bit too 'funky' for my tastes and not nearly as threatening and grim as the cover art make Necrons out to me.

By the looks of that Cryptek model, It looks like one of our boxes for sale will be Immortals/Deathmarks/Crypteks, so plenty of extra leftover bits for warrior conversions. If that is how it pans out, that is.

edit - Has that cryptek been confirmed as resin instead? If so, my bad.

Wow, that cryptek is interesting,

I dont really like it but i wont judge till i get to paint it

The Cryptek looks good. Also, if it turns out that A: people need lots of Crypteks and B: Deathmarks aren't very good in game; at least you'll have lots of Deathmark heads to convert Crypteks from warriors/immortals.

Is it just me...or does that Cryptek have a really long chin? I didn't think I saw it on the cover art, but..now I'm seeing chin.

I actually really like it. The more with the cyclops face the better IMO.

NecronLord3 wrote:

I actually really like it. The more with the cyclops face the better IMO.

You know, now that I think of it, he actually looks a bit like a fimir

alphaomega wrote:

UltraPrime wrote:Why are people shocked that the Tomb Stalker isn't in the codex? Did the SM and IG codexes include the newest FW models and I just missed it?

IG got the Hydra, Manitcore, Valkyrie, Griffon and various Leman Russ variants which used to (and some of still are) FW only.

Space Marines did also get the drop pop another item that used to be FW only.

Not to forget Tyranids getting the Trygon.

Some of the recent codexes have had units that either are or were FW only. The Tomb Stalker would have been a rather kool thing to have been able to take without Apoc or arguments in standard games.

A lot of the new FW Space Marine or IG stuff came out after the codexes got released. And a lot of the recent stuff is super heavies which would unbalance the game a lot.

Drop Pod was in the codex in 3rd edition pal. Only a Forge World model existed for it. Until GW released the plastic one.

Ergo, the Drop Pod was a Normal Unit in a normal codex that only had a forgeworld model to represent it.

Anpu-adom wrote:

Ysclyth wrote:I have not had the best experience with finecast DE. Besides the gobs of flash to remove, and the crater filling, thin pieces regularly arrived in the box unattached or missing.

Wracks- lots of flash, chains missing
Lelith- Chin and stomach detail filled with craters
Archon- ok except for one head had that orange rubber in the eye (possible but difficult to remoce)
Haemi- fine
Succubus- Head missing.

I got replacements or my money back in most cases. But still, a bit perplexing as the cost is higher than metal or plastic.

I'm sure initially we will see the same issues with Necron finecast. But also have faith that the process is being finetuned and perhaps the finecast will be much cleaner next time around.

Sorry, this has been preached to death on other forums, but I'll add it here too.
The increased cost comes down to this... Quality Control. When making metal models, the guys running the molds would have time to look at each of the metals as it was coming out. Any rejects went back into the melting pot with only a little wasted time. No so with resin. The speed of production has picked up because the resin sets faster. Not only that, is it harder to see problems (the flash seems to hide a lot), but when you do have rejects you can't reuse the material.

GW claims that the switch to Finecast wasn't about profit margins, but providing a better product at a more stable price. Translate that to mean: "We are as sick of price increases as you are and we need to stabilize our profit margin, so we are switching to resin. Here's a scraper and a bottle of liquid greenstuff you can buy. Deal"

And hence, the outrage. I mean, re-read your last sentence. "Here's a scraper and a bottle of liquid greenstuff you can buy." So, what you're saying is they switched to resin, because of Quality Control? I don't follow. Have you seen some of the errors in the product? They were so blatant, that they released products to fix their own mistakes. So, when the switch to a cheaper, less stable material that cannot be recasted and has certain flaws, you'd expect the price to drop. But no, not only did the price rise (for QC, as you're inferring, without any noticeable change in the actual QC. If anything, it seems worse.) but, they expect you to smile, buy the product and be happy that you're buying something inferior to what you could've bought 6 months ago at a discount. Not only that, but you should shell out the extra clams for tools to fix these mistakes.

Funny that you give them credit for wanting to stabilize their pricing. If that were true, why didn't they keep the Failcost minis at the same price point as their metal counterparts? Oh that's right, Quality Control. Have fun filling those bubbles that somehow slipped by.

whigwam wrote:Is it just me...or does that Cryptek have a really long chin? I didn't think I saw it on the cover art, but..now I'm seeing chin.

Hmm... at first I was a 'No... that's not...' but now that I look at it. In certain eras, pharaohs had those metal 'beard protectors' ... maybe?

Some comments:

1.) Sad to hear that GW pulled the pics from BoW. Guess GW doesn't want any excitement about their new release. Would spoil their anti-marketing to artificially lower Necron sales.

2.) The Cryptek is the 4th Finecast blister of the first wave. The "longer chin" is a bow to the false beards of Egyptian pharaoes. The others Finecast blisters are Imotekh the Stormlord, Trazyn the Infinite and the generic Overlord (the other Overlord is the plastic one from the command barge). Here a size reduced version of the pic:



3.) There are two versions of scarabs: The current plastic ones on the warrior sprue and the old 2nd edition metal ones, that are again sold by GW and therefore not OOP.

4.) The BoW Megalith from the April's fools video is actually a Gormiti playset called "Supreme Luminous Temple":

Dat beard....

puma713 wrote:

Anpu-adom wrote:

Ysclyth wrote:I have not had the best experience with finecast DE. Besides the gobs of flash to remove, and the crater filling, thin pieces regularly arrived in the box unattached or missing.

Wracks- lots of flash, chains missing
Lelith- Chin and stomach detail filled with craters
Archon- ok except for one head had that orange rubber in the eye (possible but difficult to remoce)
Haemi- fine
Succubus- Head missing.

I got replacements or my money back in most cases. But still, a bit perplexing as the cost is higher than metal or plastic.

I'm sure initially we will see the same issues with Necron finecast. But also have faith that the process is being finetuned and perhaps the finecast will be much cleaner next time around.

Sorry, this has been preached to death on other forums, but I'll add it here too.
The increased cost comes down to this... Quality Control. When making metal models, the guys running the molds would have time to look at each of the metals as it was coming out. Any rejects went back into the melting pot with only a little wasted time. No so with resin. The speed of production has picked up because the resin sets faster. Not only that, is it harder to see problems (the flash seems to hide a lot), but when you do have rejects you can't reuse the material.

GW claims that the switch to Finecast wasn't about profit margins, but providing a better product at a more stable price. Translate that to mean: "We are as sick of price increases as you are and we need to stabilize our profit margin, so we are switching to resin. Here's a scraper and a bottle of liquid greenstuff you can buy. Deal"

And hence, the outrage. I mean, re-read your last sentence. "Here's a scraper and a bottle of liquid greenstuff you can buy." So, what you're saying is they switched to resin, because of Quality Control? I don't follow. Have you seen some of the errors in the product? They were so blatant, that they released products to fix their own mistakes. So, when the switch to a cheaper, less stable material that cannot be recasted and has certain flaws, you'd expect the price to drop. But no, not only did the price rise (for QC, as you're inferring, without any noticeable change in the actual QC. If anything, it seems worse.) but, they expect you to smile, buy the product and be happy that you're buying something inferior to what you could've bought 6 months ago at a discount. Not only that, but you should shell out the extra clams for tools to fix these mistakes.

Funny that you give them credit for wanting to stabilize their pricing. If that were true, why didn't they keep the Failcost minis at the same price point as their metal counterparts? Oh that's right, Quality Control. Have fun filling those bubbles that somehow slipped by.

Wow... you are an angry fellow, aren't you. I'm sorry if my post made me sound like a GW-fanboy ... I'm not. I restated THEIR reasoning, and then interpreted it how I understand it. Like I said... this topic has been rehashed enough.

Anpu-adom wrote:

puma713 wrote:

Anpu-adom wrote:

Ysclyth wrote:I have not had the best experience with finecast DE. Besides the gobs of flash to remove, and the crater filling, thin pieces regularly arrived in the box unattached or missing.

Wracks- lots of flash, chains missing
Lelith- Chin and stomach detail filled with craters
Archon- ok except for one head had that orange rubber in the eye (possible but difficult to remoce)
Haemi- fine
Succubus- Head missing.

I got replacements or my money back in most cases. But still, a bit perplexing as the cost is higher than metal or plastic.

I'm sure initially we will see the same issues with Necron finecast. But also have faith that the process is being finetuned and perhaps the finecast will be much cleaner next time around.

Sorry, this has been preached to death on other forums, but I'll add it here too.
The increased cost comes down to this... Quality Control. When making metal models, the guys running the molds would have time to look at each of the metals as it was coming out. Any rejects went back into the melting pot with only a little wasted time. No so with resin. The speed of production has picked up because the resin sets faster. Not only that, is it harder to see problems (the flash seems to hide a lot), but when you do have rejects you can't reuse the material.

GW claims that the switch to Finecast wasn't about profit margins, but providing a better product at a more stable price. Translate that to mean: "We are as sick of price increases as you are and we need to stabilize our profit margin, so we are switching to resin. Here's a scraper and a bottle of liquid greenstuff you can buy. Deal"

And hence, the outrage. I mean, re-read your last sentence. "Here's a scraper and a bottle of liquid greenstuff you can buy." So, what you're saying is they switched to resin, because of Quality Control? I don't follow. Have you seen some of the errors in the product? They were so blatant, that they released products to fix their own mistakes. So, when the switch to a cheaper, less stable material that cannot be recasted and has certain flaws, you'd expect the price to drop. But no, not only did the price rise (for QC, as you're inferring, without any noticeable change in the actual QC. If anything, it seems worse.) but, they expect you to smile, buy the product and be happy that you're buying something inferior to what you could've bought 6 months ago at a discount. Not only that, but you should shell out the extra clams for tools to fix these mistakes.

Funny that you give them credit for wanting to stabilize their pricing. If that were true, why didn't they keep the Failcost minis at the same price point as their metal counterparts? Oh that's right, Quality Control. Have fun filling those bubbles that somehow slipped by.

Wow... you are an angry fellow, aren't you. I'm sorry if my post made me sound like a GW-fanboy ... I'm not. I restated THEIR reasoning, and then interpreted it how I understand it. Like I said... this topic has been rehashed enough.

Until I absolutely have to (And thank god, I do not, until 6th probably) I refuse to buy any of the Finecast products, not just due to the internet community but from the store owners I know complaining, my pals at GW whining and all my friends bitching about the bad blisters (A few people praised it, lucky for them I guess). I do see the point about Quality Control, as QC has gone down immensely at GW. I have some good news though, get a bad boxed set or blister? GW will send you a new one, simple as calling them up. They don't even take back the bad one. Just imagine, you now have the old one for conversions, cool right?

What it comes down to, the pewter casting from GW is pretty much gone.

Whether you like Finecast or hate it, it's here to stay.




So focus the discussion on Necrons dudes, come on!!!

Some info from Bramgaunt over at Warseer directly:

Monolith, Warriors and Destroyers stay the same price and the same composition. 12 Warriors & 3 scarab bases.
Also, i haven't seen any mention of the Eternal Life rule, which allows whole units to get up again. No idea how it works, though.
(...)
Also, the Cryptec is slightly less expensive then the Overlords, the flayed ones however are 35€, thats 9€ more then rumoured.
(...)
35 ->Euro<-. 35 Euro for the Flayed ones. Not Pound. And Ferrox is correct, everything that's 20.50 gbp transtales to 26 Euro.
Ah, Immortals and Deathmarks ARE one kit. Just to clear this one out.

Ruler of Chaos wrote:

zacharia wrote:Hi all, been lurking since the leaks for new necrons came in, finally got vaught up on the thread (yes i read it all lol)

First like many others want to say thanks for all th hard work giving us all this information to yak and kroot.

I have to say though im overall very saddened by what we know of the new codex so far and yes i DO prefer the old one.

1) I loved the old fluff of a legion of uniform ancient evil robots threatening everything - yes I can still play this in game play terms, but not in fluff terms as that simply isnt the case anymore (lots of fractured worlds not the single big threat).

2) main army i prefered (even though its not the best under current rules) is the warrior horde backed by a cple of monoliths (again its the whole fluffiness of the uniform legion etc)
With what we know of the new codex this list is severely weekened.

For example 2,200 ish of warriors/liths old dex (ignoring command for simplification) 2 monoliths 100 warriors
Now this dex both are cheaper but both have been nerfed

The same 2 liths and 100 warriors cost aparently around 1600, but:
the warriors are 1 save worse, 1 wbb worse, guns no longer auto wound on 6 no matter toughness
monoliths are easier to destroy, can no longer pull units from cc and no longer give wbb rerolls.

Now I can use the 600 ish points to add a lord and orb to each unit using the royal court, which brings them to about the same cost, but only brings thier wbb back upto the same (and can be removed by losing the lord as well), all the other nerfs are still there, so its a weaker army for the same points, when it was already not overly good before!

You are negating the fact of phase out being gone. seems like everyone is not taking that into consideration. And also, you should have to play a new codex different then the old codex.

I would also like to further add, unless your opponent was really new or suffering a massive head injury that army could not win a normal game of 40k then and probably wont now with new book/rules. If you want something competitive then look to the dozens of new options coming out in 2 weeks. If you still want to play the blanket force that dosent fair well against moderate to strong opponents, then your army is unchanged, plus moar warriors to boot!

Funny how GW still won't admit they are even releasing Necrons. The pictures are all over the net, everyone knows. Their response?

I can understand them wanting to remove unofficial pictures, but to then not follow up with some sort of official release on their own site with high res pictures seems a bit odd to me.

Their reaction, virtually non-existent, seems to be hoping that the the genie can go back in the bottle until next month.

If immortals and deathmarks come out of the same set that would be brilliant. That'd make it ridiculously easy to convert warriors into deathmarks by replacing the heads and guns.

The Cryptek sorta reminds me of that thin Necron lord thing from Technomancer's art.

I'm not sure what to think of this. if anything i'm curious. I do like the variety with these new necrons, but retconing the c'tan like that makes me feel "eh" :(
i guess this is what you get when your codex is written by matt ward. but you know what, i'm going to stop worrying and roll with this.
but i am all for the two new transports, those are bitchin' ;p

Lt. Coldfire wrote:There are many different ways to grip a shaft in which angle and preference may play a role, so lets leave it at that and move on.

That's what she said.

Cryptek looks good.

The only thing I'm not super pumped about is the new restriction on destroyer unit size combined with fact that heavy destroyers are now lumped in with regular destroyers.

One thing I notice is that some weapons are described as selecting a 'random' model from the unit.

Now in a squad of 20 (or 30 in the case of Orks) how do you determine which 'random' model is removed? The amount of rolls to determine a single lost model become ridiculous and if it is instead 'target a model within a randomly determined group of similarly equipped models' suddenly I see a lot of sergeants being plucked out of units by strength tests (though only a chance, I think ICs are damned if they do/dont' join a squad).

Ehsteve wrote:One thing I notice is that some weapons are described as selecting a 'random' model from the unit.

Now in a squad of 20 (or 30 in the case of Orks) how do you determine which 'random' model is removed? The amount of rolls to determine a single lost model become ridiculous and if it is instead 'target a model within a randomly determined group of similarly equipped models' suddenly I see a lot of sergeants being plucked out of units by strength tests (though only a chance, I think ICs are damned if they do/dont' join a squad).

I would think in that case you would find something reasonable to do with an opponent. Maybe roll 2D6 and on like a 2 your IC is killed otherwise its a regular troop or in the case of different loadouts of guys in the squad (say 2/3 normal and 1/3 special weapons) then you would roll and on 1-4 a regular guy goes and on a 5/6 a special weapon drops. I'm sure there will be a proper and obscenely difficult way to do this with larger squads but if its casual I think simplicity will win out.

Howard A Treesong wrote:Funny how GW still won't admit they are even releasing Necrons. The pictures are all over the net, everyone knows. Their response?

I can understand them wanting to remove unofficial pictures, but to then not follow up with some sort of official release on their own site with high res pictures seems a bit odd to me.

Their reaction, virtually non-existent, seems to be hoping that the the genie can go back in the bottle until next month.

I think it's a bit of a disaster for their marketing strategy. If they had been running a normal strategy with a few things known to be in the works simultaneosly (and well in advance) then the leak wouldn't have been such a big deal.

As it is, they have a full scale campaign with all their marketing resources commited for another two weeks solely to promote Dread Fleet suddenly undermined when half or more of the the internet savvy customer base has something much more intersting (for them) to obsess over. If Dread Fleet sales underperform I suspect they will explicitly blame this leak but it's really just a self-inflicted weakness in their own marketing.

Hey Yakface, could you drip us some info on the fast attack? I've noticed a lot of talk about the capabilities of Destroyers now that they're no longer jetpacks, and I personally am dying to hear what the new Tomb Blades are able to do.

If not, thanks for all the rumors you've given us already. It's been awesome!

Ruler of Chaos wrote:You are negating the fact of phase out being gone. seems like everyone is not taking that into consideration. And also, you should have to play a new codex different then the old codex.

I disagree on that last part. I don't think you should have to play a new codex differently than the new one for the same army. I'm of the firm belief that you should be able to play in exactly the same manner. I'm all for adding in new possibilities, but not taking out old ones. That particular playstyle may be what was attractive about the army in the first place.

dancingcricket wrote:

Ruler of Chaos wrote:You are negating the fact of phase out being gone. seems like everyone is not taking that into consideration. And also, you should have to play a new codex different then the old codex.

I disagree on that last part. I don't think you should have to play a new codex differently than the new one for the same army. I'm of the firm belief that you should be able to play in exactly the same manner. I'm all for adding in new possibilities, but not taking out old ones. That particular playstyle may be what was attractive about the army in the first place.

Based on everything I've read, I cannot see how your playstyle is changed.

Oh.. you meant you enjoyed having no chance against a decent player and now that your army will be good and able to win without fighting the short bus kids; you are upset?

I don't get it.. you're upset the army is becoming better, in every single way...? (Updated Lore, Updated Rules, Updated Units, Tons of new stuff....)

I agree. In fact I noticed that my army from Adepticon 2010 would still be legal and actually could be competitive with the new 'Dex.

NecronLord3 wrote:I agree. In fact I noticed that my army from Adepticon 2010 would still be legal and actually could be competitive with the new 'Dex.

That means they are doing their job right with the revision.

It's a shame everyone is so hung up on Matt Ward, because the new Necron Codex sounds cool and the new units, while over the top in GW-Style are also cool.

Not cool enough for me to jump on the bandwagon but I am happy that all the skullheads will be able to destroy their hated neckbeard opponents!

Hox wrote:

Ehsteve wrote:One thing I notice is that some weapons are described as selecting a 'random' model from the unit.

Now in a squad of 20 (or 30 in the case of Orks) how do you determine which 'random' model is removed? The amount of rolls to determine a single lost model become ridiculous and if it is instead 'target a model within a randomly determined group of similarly equipped models' suddenly I see a lot of sergeants being plucked out of units by strength tests (though only a chance, I think ICs are damned if they do/dont' join a squad).

I would think in that case you would find something reasonable to do with an opponent. Maybe roll 2D6 and on like a 2 your IC is killed otherwise its a regular troop or in the case of different loadouts of guys in the squad (say 2/3 normal and 1/3 special weapons) then you would roll and on 1-4 a regular guy goes and on a 5/6 a special weapon drops. I'm sure there will be a proper and obscenely difficult way to do this with larger squads but if its casual I think simplicity will win out.

And if simplicity wins out, then the weapon gets a huge boost because it will disproportionately hit special members of the squad. Picture a squad of 30 Slugga Boyz. One of these is a Nob, and 3 have Big Shootas. How are you going to randomly allocate the hit such that the Nob has a 1/30 probability of being hit and a Big Shoota has a 1/10?

I foresee a lot of people just half-assing it and suggesting something like 1 hits the Nob, 2 or 3 a Big Shoota, the rest a Slugga Boy. That would make the Nob 5 times more likely to take the hit than he should. Unless you've got at least a d10 available I'm struggling to think of quick ways to map the squad such that the appropriate probabilities of being hit are maintained.

With a d10, and the above example squad, I'd recommend first splitting it into 3 groups of 10 each with a Big Shoota and the first also containing the Nob. Roll a d6, with 1 or 2 indicating the Nob's group was hit and 3+ one of the other two groups. Then roll a d10 with a 10 indicating the Big Shoota from the appropriate group and a 1 indicating the Nob if he's present. Of course, as soon as the unit takes a single casualty this no longer works, and in fact gets even harder to do. You'd have to essentially number every member and then roll a percentile (rerolling if it's a number that isn't present) to figure out who was hit.

Abaddon wrote:My Necrons = sold For a pretty penny too, I might add.

I guess I'll have to play something Imperial if I want any shot at GW remaining loyal to the existing fluff.

Yeah, I'm sorry the atrocious "C'tan did everything, Necrons are 1 dimensional boring killbots" got reeled in a little. I bet the person that bought your Necrons will have a ton of fun with the new book though!

What weapon has a chance of hitting a random model in an entire unit??? The only rumor i've read that has any randomness associated is the mindshackle scarabs that the Infinite carries, and it hits a random model he is Base to Base with. Which is usually 1-5 models, easily randomizable with a D6 roll.

So why do people keep raising alarms over a codex that's not even released yet, with issues that aren't even issues? Geez...

ph34r wrote:

Abaddon wrote:My Necrons = sold For a pretty penny too, I might add.

I guess I'll have to play something Imperial if I want any shot at GW remaining loyal to the existing fluff.

Yeah, I'm sorry the atrocious "C'tan did everything, Necrons are 1 dimensional boring killbots" got reeled in a little. I bet the person that bought your Necrons will have a ton of fun with the new book though!

Yeah, it is amazing everyone is upset that the Necrons are an actual RACE now with some goals and motivations beyond.


Kill... bzzt ... KILL bzzt KILL KILL KILL!!!

It was obvious from the novels involving Necrons (Damnos) and the Blood Angels Codex (Bro-fisting blood crons) that they were trying to make them more of an actual race, less of a bunch of mindless killy robots.


Edit: Keep it polite and don't make snide comments, please.

IdentifyZero wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:I agree. In fact I noticed that my army from Adepticon 2010 would still be legal and actually could be competitive with the new 'Dex.

That means they are doing their job right with the revision.

It's a shame everyone is so hung up on Matt Ward, because the new Necron Codex sounds cool and the new units, while over the top in GW-Style are also cool.

Not cool enough for me to jump on the bandwagon but I am happy that all the skullheads will be able to destroy their hated neckbeard opponents!

Yes, but had I taken 15 destroyers it will also not be legal.

Chrysis wrote:

Hox wrote:

Ehsteve wrote:One thing I notice is that some weapons are described as selecting a 'random' model from the unit.

Now in a squad of 20 (or 30 in the case of Orks) how do you determine which 'random' model is removed? The amount of rolls to determine a single lost model become ridiculous and if it is instead 'target a model within a randomly determined group of similarly equipped models' suddenly I see a lot of sergeants being plucked out of units by strength tests (though only a chance, I think ICs are damned if they do/dont' join a squad).

I would think in that case you would find something reasonable to do with an opponent. Maybe roll 2D6 and on like a 2 your IC is killed otherwise its a regular troop or in the case of different loadouts of guys in the squad (say 2/3 normal and 1/3 special weapons) then you would roll and on 1-4 a regular guy goes and on a 5/6 a special weapon drops. I'm sure there will be a proper and obscenely difficult way to do this with larger squads but if its casual I think simplicity will win out.

And if simplicity wins out, then the weapon gets a huge boost because it will disproportionately hit special members of the squad. Picture a squad of 30 Slugga Boyz. One of these is a Nob, and 3 have Big Shootas. How are you going to randomly allocate the hit such that the Nob has a 1/30 probability of being hit and a Big Shoota has a 1/10?

I foresee a lot of people just half-assing it and suggesting something like 1 hits the Nob, 2 or 3 a Big Shoota, the rest a Slugga Boy. That would make the Nob 5 times more likely to take the hit than he should. Unless you've got at least a d10 available I'm struggling to think of quick ways to map the squad such that the appropriate probabilities of being hit are maintained.

With a d10, and the above example squad, I'd recommend first splitting it into 3 groups of 10 each with a Big Shoota and the first also containing the Nob. Roll a d6, with 1 or 2 indicating the Nob's group was hit and 3+ one of the other two groups. Then roll a d10 with a 10 indicating the Big Shoota from the appropriate group and a 1 indicating the Nob if he's present. Of course, as soon as the unit takes a single casualty this no longer works, and in fact gets even harder to do. You'd have to essentially number every member and then roll a percentile (rerolling if it's a number that isn't present) to figure out who was hit.

Yes, the first line of my post was "find something reasonable to do with the opponent" but of course I want to skew the rules and win. My opponent is usually the same person who provides other things (my girlfriend) so I strive to keep things fair. You are discussing squads of 30 which are NOT the normal other than orks and nids. Almost any other squad can be effectively done on 2-4 dice (or 2 -3 10 sided dice). Im sure if you want to go crazy you can buy a die with an obscenely large number of sides if you want but I think most people will agree upon something with their opponent.

Edit: 3 seconds on google let me find 30 sided dice for $2.50. I dont think this is an issue.

If you google RNG (random number generator) you can easily fix your random-model-getting-hit problems. Just assign a number to each model, set your boundaries and go.

NecronLord3 wrote:

IdentifyZero wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:I agree. In fact I noticed that my army from Adepticon 2010 would still be legal and actually could be competitive with the new 'Dex.

That means they are doing their job right with the revision.

It's a shame everyone is so hung up on Matt Ward, because the new Necron Codex sounds cool and the new units, while over the top in GW-Style are also cool.

Not cool enough for me to jump on the bandwagon but I am happy that all the skullheads will be able to destroy their hated neckbeard opponents!

Yes, but had I taken 15 destroyers it will also not be legal.

That is what apocalypse is for. Every edition lists are invalidated.

The message is, hey guys, these new destroyers are better and cheaper.. so we're not going to let you have a ton.

Nobody has seen the codex yet. It's possible there is a Lord who allows Destroyers as troops etc... why who knows. Surely since every other codex has at least 1 character who makes X and Y troops; I bet Necrons will have it as well.

Most recent Codex had not 1 but 2 different elites that could be made troops.

IdentifyZero wrote:

Nobody has seen the codex yet. It's possible there is a Lord who allows Destroyers as troops etc... why who knows. Surely since every other codex has at least 1 character who makes X and Y troops; I bet Necrons will have it as well.

Most recent Codex had not 1 but 2 different elites that could be made troops.

Yakface was pretty clear, in saying that none of the characters alter the Force Organisation.

alphaomega wrote:

IdentifyZero wrote:

Nobody has seen the codex yet. It's possible there is a Lord who allows Destroyers as troops etc... why who knows. Surely since every other codex has at least 1 character who makes X and Y troops; I bet Necrons will have it as well.

Most recent Codex had not 1 but 2 different elites that could be made troops.

Yakface was pretty clear, in saying that none of the characters alter the Force Organisation.

From what he saw. I'm fairly clear he only has a playtest codex, and from the GK playtest leak, we know things change.

I did notice the whole randomize a model in the unit phenomenon. As has been pointed out, most of these are only dealing with a model in base contact with a certain Necron model and those can be easily resolved with a single die (since you never have more than 6 enemy models in base contact).

However, the Exile beamer that can be carried by Wraiths does affect the entire unit and needs a random model to be picked and that would be tricky.

Luckily, I don't see anyone ever using that upgrade because of how it works (being a Heavy Weapon on a unit that wants to assault), but if it was used against a big squad, the proper way would be to split all the models in the unit into groups so the whole thing was divisible by 6 and then randomly roll off to see what group was affected, then further rolling to see what model within the group was affected.

So for example, if you have 30 Ork Boyz, which includes a Nob and 3 Big Shootas and you needed to randomize this, you'd split the mob into 6 groups of 5 models. For ease, you'd probably be best off putting the Nob and all 3 Big Shoota models into a single group (along with one regular Boy), so let's say you put all these special models into group #6.

Now you roll a D6. A roll of 1-5 means you've selected a group 1 through 5, all of which are regular boyz, so you'd just resolve the attack against a regular boy. Howver, if you rolled a '6' that means you've selected the group with all the specialty models in it, and you need to roll again to see what actual model within the group is selected.

So perhpas you'd say that the Nob was then #1, the Big Shoota Boyz were #2-4, the regular Shoota boy in the group was #5, and since there is no sixth model in the group, a result of '6' would be re-rolled.

Now you roll a D6 again and a #3 comes up, meaning the attack is resolved against a Big Shoota Boy.


Not quite a simple method by any means, but certainly doable with a D6 and a bit of ingenuity.

Hox wrote:

Chrysis wrote:

Hox wrote:

Ehsteve wrote:One thing I notice is that some weapons are described as selecting a 'random' model from the unit.

Now in a squad of 20 (or 30 in the case of Orks) how do you determine which 'random' model is removed? The amount of rolls to determine a single lost model become ridiculous and if it is instead 'target a model within a randomly determined group of similarly equipped models' suddenly I see a lot of sergeants being plucked out of units by strength tests (though only a chance, I think ICs are damned if they do/dont' join a squad).

I would think in that case you would find something reasonable to do with an opponent. Maybe roll 2D6 and on like a 2 your IC is killed otherwise its a regular troop or in the case of different loadouts of guys in the squad (say 2/3 normal and 1/3 special weapons) then you would roll and on 1-4 a regular guy goes and on a 5/6 a special weapon drops. I'm sure there will be a proper and obscenely difficult way to do this with larger squads but if its casual I think simplicity will win out.

And if simplicity wins out, then the weapon gets a huge boost because it will disproportionately hit special members of the squad. Picture a squad of 30 Slugga Boyz. One of these is a Nob, and 3 have Big Shootas. How are you going to randomly allocate the hit such that the Nob has a 1/30 probability of being hit and a Big Shoota has a 1/10?

I foresee a lot of people just half-assing it and suggesting something like 1 hits the Nob, 2 or 3 a Big Shoota, the rest a Slugga Boy. That would make the Nob 5 times more likely to take the hit than he should. Unless you've got at least a d10 available I'm struggling to think of quick ways to map the squad such that the appropriate probabilities of being hit are maintained.

With a d10, and the above example squad, I'd recommend first splitting it into 3 groups of 10 each with a Big Shoota and the first also containing the Nob. Roll a d6, with 1 or 2 indicating the Nob's group was hit and 3+ one of the other two groups. Then roll a d10 with a 10 indicating the Big Shoota from the appropriate group and a 1 indicating the Nob if he's present. Of course, as soon as the unit takes a single casualty this no longer works, and in fact gets even harder to do. You'd have to essentially number every member and then roll a percentile (rerolling if it's a number that isn't present) to figure out who was hit.

Yes, the first line of my post was "find something reasonable to do with the opponent" but of course I want to skew the rules and win. My opponent is usually the same person who provides other things (my girlfriend) so I strive to keep things fair. You are discussing squads of 30 which are NOT the normal other than orks and nids. Almost any other squad can be effectively done on 2-4 dice (or 2 -3 10 sided dice). Im sure if you want to go crazy you can buy a die with an obscenely large number of sides if you want but I think most people will agree upon something with their opponent.

Edit: 3 seconds on google let me find 30 sided dice for $2.50. I dont think this is an issue.

There is always "On an even roll, i choose, and on an odd roll, you choose. Oh, a 6. Get rid of that Nob/Squad Leader/heavy weapon/power weapon guy/girl/it."

Guarantee my lucky necron dice won't let me down. (they're called that because they are rigged to roll high when used for necrons, but refuce to get above a 3 for any other reason.)

*edit* just saw yakface's post, alot better idea in terms of not being as rigged.

Hey Yakface, does the DOOMscythe have any artwork in the codex? i kinda want to know what it will look like.

I'm telling you guys just go online and find a RNG. If you're playing at someone's home I'm sure they have a computer, and in other locations you crazy young people with your smart pads and iphones must have some sort of internet capable device. I bet there's a RNG app out there too.

Lotta big broad brush strokes being painted over people in this thread now. Straw brushes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

IdentifyZero wrote:The message is, hey guys, these new destroyers are better and cheaper.. so we're not going to let you have a ton.

More likely the message is "Hey guys, Destroyers have been out for 7 years. Look at this new shiny instead!"

asimo77 wrote:I'm telling you guys just go online and find an RNG. If you're playing at someone's home I'm sure they have a computer, and in other locations you crazy young people with your smart pads and iphones must have some sort of internet capable device. I bet there's a RNG app out there too.

Hey great point. I just realized I had no such thing on my iphone/pad and just downloaded a free one just in case I ever need it!

Yakface, I just want to thank you for bringing information.

If you do not mind, any word on the other weapons that Triarch Stalker can take?

So no Artwork for doomscythe?

alphaomega wrote:

IdentifyZero wrote:

Nobody has seen the codex yet. It's possible there is a Lord who allows Destroyers as troops etc... why who knows. Surely since every other codex has at least 1 character who makes X and Y troops; I bet Necrons will have it as well.

Most recent Codex had not 1 but 2 different elites that could be made troops.

Yakface was pretty clear, in saying that none of the characters alter the Force Organisation.

Yeah. If only he had the FINAL codex that will hit store shelves.

Would be funny if it is all lies, but again thank you yakface for the info.

The modles rock, except for the flayed ones they look not so scary without as much skin and smaller claws...

I liked the Edward Scissor-hand Ones they were pretty cool

At this rate the damn eldar better be fething AWSOME or I QUIT

TheWildHost wrote:At this rate the damn eldar better be fething AWSOME or I QUIT

They already are. Try Linking some Prism cannons and parking Wraithguard as a Troops choice on an objective.

NecronLord3 wrote:

TheWildHost wrote:At this rate the damn eldar better be fething AWSOME or I QUIT

They already are. Try Linking some Prism cannons and parking Wraithguard as a Troops choice on an objective.

Wraithguard killed my C'tan one time, not sure if i am over it yet.

Model Limitations and tactics
<------------ Immature 13 Yr. old
I demand Chedder

No you're stuck with Provolone!

masterofstuff1 wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:

TheWildHost wrote:At this rate the damn eldar better be fething AWSOME or I QUIT

They already are. Try Linking some Prism cannons and parking Wraithguard as a Troops choice on an objective.

Wraithguard killed my C'tan one time, not sure if i am over it yet.

Yeah, my Deceiver walks away from that combat every time.

Hey Yak, can you let us in on what thee Character with the Body guard does?

How is his preference for honor represented in his rules?

NecronLord3 wrote:

masterofstuff1 wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:

TheWildHost wrote:At this rate the damn eldar better be fething AWSOME or I QUIT

They already are. Try Linking some Prism cannons and parking Wraithguard as a Troops choice on an objective.

Wraithguard killed my C'tan one time, not sure if i am over it yet.

Yeah, my Deceiver walks away from that combat every time.

Let's see him walk away from Wraithcannon fire

He doesn't even get a save

16 days until the book drops...does that mean just 2 more days and official pre-orders go up?

Who else is counting down?

tetrisphreak wrote:16 days until the book drops...does that mean just 2 more days and official pre-orders go up?

Who else is counting down?

you know it

The wait is absolutely horrendous for myself. Been counting down every torturous day since sometime last week...

CleverAntics wrote:The wait is absolutely horrendous for myself. Been counting down every torturous day since sometime last week...

Knowing that it is actually coming and actually having the date is kinda making it worse

Pre-orders set to go up on my birthday. Stoked 0---0

TheWarStore.com

We will be receiving solicitation information on the Necrons from Games Workshop on October 24th. If you are interested in receiving information, please send Neal (neal@thewarstore.com) an email with the subject line: I WANT MY NECRONS! and we will let you know as soon as the information is available!

Looking forward to reading the codex.

Not sure if i'll continue with crons. It depends a lot on the codex.

I play my armies for the fluff and the look, more than the power level. I'm not sure yet if i like the new look crons enough. The codex will be the decider for me

I know. To be factual, the GK release - while it excited me - isn't having the effect Necrons are. Both because of knowing the pre-order date and taking a liking to Necrons better than GKs.

yakface wrote:

asimo77 wrote:I'm telling you guys just go online and find an RNG. If you're playing at someone's home I'm sure they have a computer, and in other locations you crazy young people with your smart pads and iphones must have some sort of internet capable device. I bet there's a RNG app out there too.

Hey great point. I just realized I had no such thing on my iphone/pad and just downloaded a free one just in case I ever need it!

Well I'm happy to have helped! I guess it's like a small thank you for all the great stuff you've been posting here.

Hmm, not a fan of the Cryptek. I think I'll just use left over parts from other models to make him. Should be plenty of extra bits to customize him, from the Immortals and Lycheguard kits.

Ascalam wrote:Looking forward to reading the codex.

Not sure if i'll continue with crons. It depends a lot on the codex.

I play my armies for the fluff and the look, more than the power level. I'm not sure yet if i like the new look crons enough. The codex will be the decider for me

Same. It seems like my Necrons are hanging in the balance at this point, depending on the codex. I hope it's written well enough to my likings...

Dr. Temujin wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Looking forward to reading the codex.

Not sure if i'll continue with crons. It depends a lot on the codex.

I play my armies for the fluff and the look, more than the power level. I'm not sure yet if i like the new look crons enough. The codex will be the decider for me

Same. It seems like my Necrons are hanging in the balance at this point, depending on the codex. I hope it's written well enough to my likings...

Not really they're already basically unplayable/competitive. They can't be worse.

NecronLord3 wrote:

Dr. Temujin wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Looking forward to reading the codex.

Not sure if i'll continue with crons. It depends a lot on the codex.

I play my armies for the fluff and the look, more than the power level. I'm not sure yet if i like the new look crons enough. The codex will be the decider for me

Same. It seems like my Necrons are hanging in the balance at this point, depending on the codex. I hope it's written well enough to my likings...

Not really they're already basically unplayable/competitive. They can't be worse.

Well they are playable, i still have fun playing at my FLGS but i know people wont ever win a competition with them.

I've won tournaments with them, even against some strong netlists.

Dash and others have too. It does require you to be stubborn as hades and to actually use your brain to outthink your opponents though, rather than relying on uber rules and statlines.

azazel the cat wrote:

mattyrm wrote: I will laugh my tits off if you sell them all and the new codex is nothing like you think.

Why not wait a wee bit before you go emo on us all eh?

Thank you for the editorial. However, there is nothing 'emo' about it. Quite the opposite, in fact. Very calculated, unemotional. Assuming that Yak is correct in what has been posted (as are we all, it seems) then I will be left holding 6 useless Destroyers and 1 useless Monolith come Nov 5th. That's $250 CAN. Because of these new unit sizes, I feel it's a reasonable assumption that their value -and therefore their price- will decrease considerably. Therefore, I have a better chance of getting a decent return on my investment if I unload it today, rather than gamble by waiting until Nov 5th. And again, since we all seem to be operating with the understanding that Yak is correct, the value decrease seems like less of a gamble and more of a certainty.

nectarprime wrote: You started playing only 6 months ago and chose Necrons??? WHYYYYY

Because as someone completely new to Warhammer 40k, I had no idea they were considered 'weak'. (By the way, I don't. I love the 5th ed. Necrons.) I liked their art design and concept. And I liked the idea that I wouldn't have to spend 5 hours painting each troop, as I don't have that kind of time. Unfortunately, it would appear that the efficient, ponderous, soulless look of the Necrons has been changed to a very ornate, Baroque style. Exactly the opposite of the reason I started with Necrons. But that's a pill I would otherwise be willing to swallow. I can always file off the robots' funny little hats.

mikhaila wrote: I'd wait to trash you models or sell them off until you see an actual codex maybe? I mean, I know it's all about the drama and all...but maybe wait for an actual rulebook?

You do have a point. Perhaps Yak is completely wrong about everything, but I doubt it. Perhaps I'll look at the codex, and then decide whether or not to hold a fire sale outside the nearest GW store on Nov 5th.

wyomingfox wrote: Seems a bit excesive . Why don't you just sell 6 of your Destroyers and use the funds to purchase some of the newer units? I mean, your scarabs, immortals, monos, and warriors are still legit.

For the same reason I don't order a different menu item at full price when the first entree served to me is rotten and there's no refunds. If a player builds a large army according to the existing FOC, and then 6 months later finds out that half of his army can no longer be used, why would that player, as a consumer, ever give said company more money? I paid for my Immortals as Elites, but now the new Immortals are exactly like the old Warriors. I spent $320 CAN on 17 Immortals so that my army would have some more punch with their assault 2 guns, but now my $320 CAN has got me 17 rapid fire guns. What a great investment. There is no reason here for me to make the mistake of purchasing more elite units again.

mattyrm wrote: As the owner of three Carnifexes and two Hive Tyrants I feel your pain, but that is the cost of investing heavily in a skewed and unbalanced army build. If you go all-out on whatever unit is most powerful in a given edition you should expect that eventually your lopsided collection will stop functioning as effectively.

What was unbalanced about it? 2x Heavy choices utilizing 1 of 3 possible options. 3x FA choices utilizing 2 of 3 FA options. 2x Elites choices utilizing 1 of 3 possible options. And lots of troops utilizing 1 of 1 possible options. Are you trying to tell me that despite the FOC, the only way to play properly was to purchase 1 unit of each possible option? If that was the case, I must have missed that page in either the Codex or else the BRB.

What I am very irritated at here is how obvious the new Necron options are not meant to augment existing armies, but to REPLACE them. As in, to re-buy. And that, I will not do.

I see that you just got into GW stuff a little while ago, so there are a few things you should know that they don't tell you in the store's;

1) When GW gets around to redoing Codex's there is usually a few new kits in there. GW wants to sell those kits so they usually get the newest/bestest/ power/rule/gimmick to help sell them. This doesn't always work (check out the pyrovore in the 'nids book PU) but these new units often invalidate the way a unit or army worked before. To Gamesworkshop the game 40k is just secondary, selling models is their main sorce of revinue. The rule set is just a way to get you to buy models. So if there was something the design studio felt was overpowered ie The Necron Flying Circus, they will make the unit not as powerful/nerf the rules especially if a new modelkit is suppost to replace a existing powerhouse ( ie Carnafex..again nid's...poor poor nids)

2) If you live in Canada don't EVER pay retail GW prices. We get a 'screw you Canada Tax' for no reason eventhough there is a model plant in the states...go figure..and we have Free Trade with the states...-shrugs- There are many many many on-line retailers who will give you a discount or free shipping we used to be able to order GW stuff from the US, and given that we have a stronger dollar it was a fair price. We can't do that anymore. The point im trying to make is retail GW pricing in Canada is insane, but not as bad as our aussie friends.

3) When a Codes gets redesigned most authors want to put 'there stamp' on it. So they will change the fluff of the army a little to suit how they see the backstory of the army. I don't think there is anything that causes as much hate/vitrol/flame wars as GW 40k fluff. It will change, your army will play differently. Either accept it and buy new kits and remember this happens everytime a new book comes out so accept this is the way GW does things. Or Don't and sell your stuff off and try a new game out.

I did the latter myself (sold my sisters) and have been having a blast playing Force on Force, Full Thrust and really looking foward to Tommorows War and Defiance Games -Game. =o]

Some of the kits look rather neat, I could have some fun chopping parts of them up to use on other products. The rules I don't care about. Can't stand the flayed ones, they look terrible. They are just over the top taken to 9000!!!1!111!1!!!112.

ok, well then that guys point is Completely wrong!! i was trying to be nice

Ascalam wrote:I've won tournaments with them, even against some strong netlists.

Dash and others have too. It does require you to be stubborn as hades and to actually use your brain to outthink your opponents though, rather than relying on uber rules and statlines.

Yea I heard of a guy killing a deer with a brick once.... Knowing that I still won't hunt with a sidewalk paver.... The crons needed an update because their book sucked, period. I don't play them and still sympathize...

I'm equal parts excited and dismayed.

I'm super excited about the pictures, and the models (except the flayed ones obv) and the rules. Trazyn sounds awesome.

I'm deeply concerned with how the release is being handled. They've been incompetent at marketing for a while, but this really reaches a new low. Instead of sending BOW C&D's, they should be sending them better pictures and sculptors to interview. It appears they are doing their hardest to make sure the release flops when I think any competent company would at this point have teasers all over the web, be doing model previews on facebook, be teasing some of the rules on twitter, etc. Maybe even.... running ads. Instead, we have people posting blurry black and white images like it's a goddamn Bigfoot.

I know I often come across as a hater (in the false dichotomy of "haterz vs fanbois"), but I really do like the HHHobby, generally, and I wish it was in better hands, is all. But that's a whole other thread, a whole other few dozen threads really.

Ouze spoiled it. ManBearPig was the rumored MC necrons were getting.

Ouze wrote:I'm equal parts excited and dismayed.

I'm super excited about the pictures, and the models (except the flayed ones obv) and the rules. Trazyn sounds awesome.

I'm deeply concerned with how the release is being handled. They've been incompetent at marketing for a while, but this really reaches a new low. Instead of sending BOW C&D's, they should be sending them better pictures and sculptors to interview. It appears they are doing their hardest to make sure the release flops when I think any competent company would at this point have teasers all over the web, be doing model previews on facebook, be teasing some of the rules on twitter, etc. Maybe even.... running ads. Instead, we have people posting blurry black and white images like it's a goddamn Bigfoot.

I know I often come across as a hater (in the false dichotomy of "haterz vs fanbois"), but I really do like the HHHobby, generally, and I wish it was in better hands, is all. But that's a whole other thread, a whole other few dozen threads really.

You've pretty much summed up my feelings. I agree 100% with you.

Ouze wrote:I'm equal parts excited and dismayed.

I'm super excited about the pictures, and the models (except the flayed ones obv) and the rules. Trazyn sounds awesome.

I'm deeply concerned with how the release is being handled. They've been incompetent at marketing for a while, but this really reaches a new low. Instead of sending BOW C&D's, they should be sending them better pictures and sculptors to interview. It appears they are doing their hardest to make sure the release flops when I think any competent company would at this point have teasers all over the web, be doing model previews on facebook, be teasing some of the rules on twitter, etc. Maybe even.... running ads. Instead, we have people posting blurry black and white images like it's a goddamn Bigfoot.

I know I often come across as a hater (in the false dichotomy of "haterz vs fanbois"), but I really do like the HHHobby, generally, and I wish it was in better hands, is all. But that's a whole other thread, a whole other few dozen threads really.

Won't you feel silly when GW float a huge Necron statue down the Thames as part of a billion dollar advertising campaign.

Seriously though, this is incredibly bizarre. Controlling the flow of info from your company absolutely makes sense, especially given certain licensing agreements. Stifling that info at every turn is nonsensical. They knew when a leak might happen. You can't stop it from happening, but you can preempt it....you know, using that website you have.

Well despite their bizzare marketing, it's not like poor advertising would somehow make the codex less competitive or something.

I think it's silly but doesn't affect me much in the end.

Why would GW spend a dime on advertising when they get all the advertising for free between BoK, BoW, BolS, Warseer, Dakka and more?

NecronLord3 wrote:Why would GW spend a dime on advertising when they get all the advertising for free between BoK, BoW, BolS, Warseer, Dakka and more?

Yes, posting your own images on your own website that is also a storefront is very expensive.

I'm deeply concerned with how the release is being handled. They've been incompetent at marketing for a while, but this really reaches a new low. Instead of sending BOW C&D's, they should be sending them better pictures and sculptors to interview. It appears they are doing their hardest to make sure the release flops when I think any competent company would at this point have teasers all over the web, be doing model previews on facebook, be teasing some of the rules on twitter, etc. Maybe even.... running ads. Instead, we have people posting blurry black and white images like it's a goddamn Bigfoot.

Well put. I think GW's unique style of anti-marketing and attacking (with futility I might add) everyone who try to hype up their products and therefore increase the value of those products reflects on the hobbyists as well. As a lawyer I'm personally dismayed how scared many people are over the internet about copyright laws. Yakface here for example seems to believe that while he is under no contractual obligation and not having obtained anything illegally simply talking about (the units and their abilities) a product that is finished and widely discussed and being released for sale in two weeks might make him liable for damages or even worse constitute a crime. This is ludicrous at best and I'm starting to wonder if this illogical fear of the judicial system is restricted to U.S. based hobbyists or everyone in the GW hobby in general.

Therion wrote:

I'm deeply concerned with how the release is being handled. They've been incompetent at marketing for a while, but this really reaches a new low. Instead of sending BOW C&D's, they should be sending them better pictures and sculptors to interview. It appears they are doing their hardest to make sure the release flops when I think any competent company would at this point have teasers all over the web, be doing model previews on facebook, be teasing some of the rules on twitter, etc. Maybe even.... running ads. Instead, we have people posting blurry black and white images like it's a goddamn Bigfoot.

Well put. I think GW's unique style of anti-marketing and attacking (with futility I might add) everyone who try to hype up their products and therefore increase the value of those products reflects on the hobbyists as well. As a lawyer I'm personally dismayed how scared many people are over the internet about copyright laws. Yakface here for example seems to believe that while he is under no contractual obligation and not having obtained anything illegally simply talking about (the units and their abilities) a product that is finished and widely discussed and being released for sale in two weeks might make him liable for damages or even worse constitute a crime. This is ludicrous at best and I'm starting to wonder if this illogical fear of the judicial system is restricted to U.S. based hobbyists or everyone in the GW hobby in general.

I got the impression that Yak was more concerned about not screwing over his source, who had presumably given him the info with certain caveats.

I got the impression that Yak was more concerned about not screwing over his source, who had presumably given him the info with certain caveats.

My point wasn't really restricted to Yak and this isolated situation, but more about how people generally discuss upcoming GW products. We could call it anti-discussing.

NecronLord3 wrote:Why would GW spend a dime on advertising when they get all the advertising for free between BoK, BoW, BolS, Warseer, Dakka and more?

You are missing the point. GW can preview new armies themselves. As mentioned they have a website... They could better control the content and quality of the photos and message in this manner. Not only that but it would have increased web traffic and exposure to their other products as well. After everything we know they are going to do to promote the Crons anyway (website/ WD content) their net cost increase would have been zero.

I like everything so far, although like most, I think the Flayed ones are the weakest of the bunch. None of the new fluff or rules offend me, but nor do they tempt me away from the superior Xenos race : Da Orks! I'm mainly looking at this release as more stuff to loot!

Ouze wrote:I'm deeply concerned with how the release is being handled. They've been incompetent at marketing for a while, but this really reaches a new low.

How is this different then the widely popular Dark Eldar release? Seems par the course from GW lately. I'm not defending their uber-secrecy, indeed, just a little transparency would go a long way, but it worked for the last xenos army they redid, didn't it?

Ouze wrote:Instead of sending BOW C&D's, they should be sending them better pictures and sculptors to interview. It appears they are doing their hardest to make sure the release flops when I think any competent company would at this point have teasers all over the web, be doing model previews on facebook, be teasing some of the rules on twitter, etc. Maybe even.... running ads. Instead, we have people posting blurry black and white images like it's a goddamn Bigfoot.

They have a published magazine and a website, both of which are still shadows of what they were back in the day, but they are getting better. Both of those outlets will do the interviews with the sculptors, Codex author/artists and have breakdown of sprues and new kits. I personally don't see anything wrong with them wanting control over content releases to use on their own media outlets (as lackluster as they are). Everything you list they usually do, on their terms and when they are ready. Isn't that their perogative? Wouldn't sending info out to other sites just make both their website and printed magazine even more redundant than it already is?

I'm not trying to argue, I can see where you are coming from and agree with it to some extent, I'm just attempting to look at it from their perspective.

Hox wrote:

Chrysis wrote:

Hox wrote:

Ehsteve wrote:One thing I notice is that some weapons are described as selecting a 'random' model from the unit.

Now in a squad of 20 (or 30 in the case of Orks) how do you determine which 'random' model is removed? The amount of rolls to determine a single lost model become ridiculous and if it is instead 'target a model within a randomly determined group of similarly equipped models' suddenly I see a lot of sergeants being plucked out of units by strength tests (though only a chance, I think ICs are damned if they do/dont' join a squad).

I would think in that case you would find something reasonable to do with an opponent. Maybe roll 2D6 and on like a 2 your IC is killed otherwise its a regular troop or in the case of different loadouts of guys in the squad (say 2/3 normal and 1/3 special weapons) then you would roll and on 1-4 a regular guy goes and on a 5/6 a special weapon drops. I'm sure there will be a proper and obscenely difficult way to do this with larger squads but if its casual I think simplicity will win out.

And if simplicity wins out, then the weapon gets a huge boost because it will disproportionately hit special members of the squad. Picture a squad of 30 Slugga Boyz. One of these is a Nob, and 3 have Big Shootas. How are you going to randomly allocate the hit such that the Nob has a 1/30 probability of being hit and a Big Shoota has a 1/10?

I foresee a lot of people just half-assing it and suggesting something like 1 hits the Nob, 2 or 3 a Big Shoota, the rest a Slugga Boy. That would make the Nob 5 times more likely to take the hit than he should. Unless you've got at least a d10 available I'm struggling to think of quick ways to map the squad such that the appropriate probabilities of being hit are maintained.

With a d10, and the above example squad, I'd recommend first splitting it into 3 groups of 10 each with a Big Shoota and the first also containing the Nob. Roll a d6, with 1 or 2 indicating the Nob's group was hit and 3+ one of the other two groups. Then roll a d10 with a 10 indicating the Big Shoota from the appropriate group and a 1 indicating the Nob if he's present. Of course, as soon as the unit takes a single casualty this no longer works, and in fact gets even harder to do. You'd have to essentially number every member and then roll a percentile (rerolling if it's a number that isn't present) to figure out who was hit.

Yes, the first line of my post was "find something reasonable to do with the opponent" but of course I want to skew the rules and win. My opponent is usually the same person who provides other things (my girlfriend) so I strive to keep things fair. You are discussing squads of 30 which are NOT the normal other than orks and nids. Almost any other squad can be effectively done on 2-4 dice (or 2 -3 10 sided dice). Im sure if you want to go crazy you can buy a die with an obscenely large number of sides if you want but I think most people will agree upon something with their opponent.

Edit: 3 seconds on google let me find 30 sided dice for $2.50. I dont think this is an issue.

I was certainly not intending to suggest that you specifically would be a problem. Although your first example of rolling 2d6 and on a 2 some model is hit is certainly a problem given the probability distribution of results in 2d6 (7 is far more likely than any other result).

I merely want to say that Maths is a common stumbling block for people, especially Statistics, and just because a solution looks reasonable doesn't mean it is. I dread having to explain to someone that their pet method of randomly choosing from a large unit skews the results to one end or another. It's not so much that I expect to have trouble with it, but I can definitely see something that looks simple like this causing huge problems because it isn't as simple as it looks. I can't see asking people to randomly choose one model from 30 using only d6s (because that's the only thing most people are going to have at hand) going well, especially given the number of discussions regarding the "difference" in probability between rolling 2 dice at once or 1 dice reroll for a single shot twin-linked weapon I've seen.

Therion wrote:My point wasn't really restricted to Yak and this isolated situation, but more about how people generally discuss upcoming GW products. We could call it anti-discussing.

You mean like when people discuss points values in terms of equivalents (he costs 1.5 Rhinos, and all his upgrades are 3 Gaunts each) - that kinda bs?


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NELS1031 wrote:They have a published magazine and a website, both of which are still shadows of what they were back in the day, but they are getting better.

How? They just spent a month talking about a one-shot game that the majority of players don't care about, and even went so far as to delay the release of the magazine so no one would find out what was in it until the game was up for pre-order.

Getting better? What constitutes 'better'?

Chrysis wrote:

Hox wrote:

Chrysis wrote:

Hox wrote:

Ehsteve wrote:One thing I notice is that some weapons are described as selecting a 'random' model from the unit.

Now in a squad of 20 (or 30 in the case of Orks) how do you determine which 'random' model is removed? The amount of rolls to determine a single lost model become ridiculous and if it is instead 'target a model within a randomly determined group of similarly equipped models' suddenly I see a lot of sergeants being plucked out of units by strength tests (though only a chance, I think ICs are damned if they do/dont' join a squad).

I would think in that case you would find something reasonable to do with an opponent. Maybe roll 2D6 and on like a 2 your IC is killed otherwise its a regular troop or in the case of different loadouts of guys in the squad (say 2/3 normal and 1/3 special weapons) then you would roll and on 1-4 a regular guy goes and on a 5/6 a special weapon drops. I'm sure there will be a proper and obscenely difficult way to do this with larger squads but if its casual I think simplicity will win out.

And if simplicity wins out, then the weapon gets a huge boost because it will disproportionately hit special members of the squad. Picture a squad of 30 Slugga Boyz. One of these is a Nob, and 3 have Big Shootas. How are you going to randomly allocate the hit such that the Nob has a 1/30 probability of being hit and a Big Shoota has a 1/10?

I foresee a lot of people just half-assing it and suggesting something like 1 hits the Nob, 2 or 3 a Big Shoota, the rest a Slugga Boy. That would make the Nob 5 times more likely to take the hit than he should. Unless you've got at least a d10 available I'm struggling to think of quick ways to map the squad such that the appropriate probabilities of being hit are maintained.

With a d10, and the above example squad, I'd recommend first splitting it into 3 groups of 10 each with a Big Shoota and the first also containing the Nob. Roll a d6, with 1 or 2 indicating the Nob's group was hit and 3+ one of the other two groups. Then roll a d10 with a 10 indicating the Big Shoota from the appropriate group and a 1 indicating the Nob if he's present. Of course, as soon as the unit takes a single casualty this no longer works, and in fact gets even harder to do. You'd have to essentially number every member and then roll a percentile (rerolling if it's a number that isn't present) to figure out who was hit.

Yes, the first line of my post was "find something reasonable to do with the opponent" but of course I want to skew the rules and win. My opponent is usually the same person who provides other things (my girlfriend) so I strive to keep things fair. You are discussing squads of 30 which are NOT the normal other than orks and nids. Almost any other squad can be effectively done on 2-4 dice (or 2 -3 10 sided dice). Im sure if you want to go crazy you can buy a die with an obscenely large number of sides if you want but I think most people will agree upon something with their opponent.

Edit: 3 seconds on google let me find 30 sided dice for $2.50. I dont think this is an issue.

I was certainly not intending to suggest that you specifically would be a problem. Although your first example of rolling 2d6 and on a 2 some model is hit is certainly a problem given the probability distribution of results in 2d6 (7 is far more likely than any other result).

I merely want to say that Maths is a common stumbling block for people, especially Statistics, and just because a solution looks reasonable doesn't mean it is. I dread having to explain to someone that their pet method of randomly choosing from a large unit skews the results to one end or another. It's not so much that I expect to have trouble with it, but I can definitely see something that looks simple like this causing huge problems because it isn't as simple as it looks. I can't see asking people to randomly choose one model from 30 using only d6s (because that's the only thing most people are going to have at hand) going well, especially given the number of discussions regarding the "difference" in probability between rolling 2 dice at once or 1 dice reroll for a single shot twin-linked weapon I've seen.

Perhaphs we'll see necrons bringing d20s and d100s to tournaments soon

On a more serious note: the random strength test or die is a heavy weapon? Don't know why any necron player would float their wraiths within 12" on an enemy just to fire a one-shot weapon which still needs to hit. I'd like to see how GW handles/d the random allocation, wonder how they dealt with it in playtesting (i'd put my money on they didn't try it on squads numbering more than 10, which in itself is an easy solution: split into 2 groups of 5, see which group is selected and so on)

I'm afraid.... I've been making a..... themed army....and well i'm worried about size comparison...


does anyone know how big the doom ark or the command barge are? like relative to other transports etc.?

Yeah, if it's a Heavy weapon then I can't actually see it being used as putting a Heavy weapon on a non-relentless assault unit isn't a winning prospect. Unless someone is taking advantage of people to skew the results hugely that is

I suspect they didn't try to fire it at a 50 man guard power blob with attached commissar and Priest. Especially not if it had taken a casualty already. Either that or they assumed everyone was good enough at statistics to work out an accurate way of randomising the hit.

IronfrontAlex wrote:I'm afraid.... I've been making a..... themed army....and well i'm worried about size comparison...


does anyone know how big the doom ark or the command barge are? like relative to other transports etc.?

Judging from the crew the command barge is about venom sized, and the arks are somewher ebetween Raider and Battlewagon in size.

Ascalam wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:I'm afraid.... I've been making a..... themed army....and well i'm worried about size comparison...


does anyone know how big the doom ark or the command barge are? like relative to other transports etc.?

Judging from the crew the command barge is about venom sized, and the arks are somewher ebetween Raider and Battlewagon in size.

More Rhino to raider size. 1 inch for each of the five warriors, another 1.5 to 2 inches for the front and 3 to 4 inches for the back part.

mondo80 wrote:

Ascalam wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:I'm afraid.... I've been making a..... themed army....and well i'm worried about size comparison...


does anyone know how big the doom ark or the command barge are? like relative to other transports etc.?

Judging from the crew the command barge is about venom sized, and the arks are somewher ebetween Raider and Battlewagon in size.

More Rhino to raider size. 1 inch for each of the five warriors, another 1.5 to 2 inches for the front and 3 to 4 inches for the back part.

oh? My "arc" IS based on a rhino... but floating. Would you find that acceptable? If not i could always add a giant servo harness

And the venom? i forget how big those are. Land speeder size? smaller?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
or the size of a viper?

I was certainly not intending to suggest that you specifically would be a problem. Although your first example of rolling 2d6 and on a 2 some model is hit is certainly a problem given the probability distribution of results in 2d6 (7 is far more likely than any other result).

I merely want to say that Maths is a common stumbling block for people, especially Statistics, and just because a solution looks reasonable doesn't mean it is. I dread having to explain to someone that their pet method of randomly choosing from a large unit skews the results to one end or another. It's not so much that I expect to have trouble with it, but I can definitely see something that looks simple like this causing huge problems because it isn't as simple as it looks. I can't see asking people to randomly choose one model from 30 using only d6s (because that's the only thing most people are going to have at hand) going well, especially given the number of discussions regarding the "difference" in probability between rolling 2 dice at once or 1 dice reroll for a single shot twin-linked weapon I've seen.

I think the easiest way to do it is just get a 30-50 sided die and and just use it. Say there are 26 boys and a nob then 1 is the nob and 2-27 is a boy. if you get 28-30 you reroll. probably the most simple and quick way to do it. even if its significantly less than the amount of sides it will always be even chances.

That artifact HQ seems neat as all getout! Can't wait... this dex seems to be pretty awesomely unique

Okay, I've cleaned up my original summary and combined all of the rumors I've leaked so far into a single master summary. If you've been keeping up, then almost all of this should be old news to you, but for those of you confused by the myriad of updates, this should be an easy to way to get it all at once. Oh, and there are a few nuggets in there you may not have seen already as well as a few corrections of stuff I realized I got a bit wrong the more I re-read it. Enjoy!



NOTES ON NEW NECRON FLUFF

There is a dramatic change in the fluff in this codex from the previous incarnation of the Necrons. The Necrontyr's empire was massive at one point, but the different Lords in the empire started to turn against each other in civil war. To prevent this from happening the overall ruler of the Necrons (the Silent King) started the war against the Old Ones specifically to give them a common enemy to fight against to prevent his empire from destroying itself. Of course, the Old Ones ended up kicking their butts and in desperation, the Silent King found the C'Tan and agreed to the Deceiver's pact without realizing what he was doing. However, after the Necrons helped the C'Tan to kill off the last Old Ones, the Silent King then ordered the Necrons to turn on the C'Tan in vengeance and utterly destroyed the C'Tan into tiny shards. This war agains the C'Tan weakened the Necrons overall so much they decided to go into stasis to avoid the vengeance of the Eldar (the C'Tan had killed the Old Ones, but not all their children).

Now that the Necrons have reawakened in the 41st millennium, their goal is no longer to 'harvest' souls for the C'Tan (the C'Tan shards are now their slaves) as it was in the old book, but rather to reestablish the great Necron empire that spanned the galaxy before the war with the Old Ones began. However, the overall hierarchy of the Necron people is gone for the most part, leaving each individual Empire to once again rule for itself. This means each Tomb World (or cluster of Necron worlds) is essentially a separate little empire to itself, with a full backstory and idiosyncrasies. While Necron warriors are pretty much just automatons and Immortals not too much better, every other higher Necron being is now much more like an actual person, as their essence is simply trapped inside a metal body.

So there is lots of crazy nuance to Necron culture that was never present before. The codex now has plenty of 'quote' boxes featuring memorable quotes from Necron Lords like other races have in their books. There are some Necron Lords who honor valor in battle, there are a few Necron Lords who trade with other races, and although an uneasy alliance apparently, yes Necrons and Blood Angels did end up fighting against a Tyranid Hive Fleet together. Oh, and there is definitely plenty of reason to have Necron vs. Necron action now (as the old feuds between competing Necron Lords flare back up again).

All in all, it is a major tonal shift. While part of me recoils from it, the other part of me thinks that Necrons as they were had no distinct 'character' that each player could choose to get behind. Yes, the race as a whole had 'character' in how it was organized and functioned, but there was never any really good reason that a player should have his Necron force painted and modeled 'X' way as opposed to another player with his Necron army looking 'Y' way. People certainly painted their Necrons in different (neat) ways, but there was never really any good fluff giving players inspiration to do so.

The only real 'personality' in the old book was the Deceiver, and that frankly wasn't the Necrons, it was their god. The mindless mission that all Necrons were on was basically really similar to Tyranids...the Necrons were coming to harvest every living thing in the galaxy (yawn).

This new incarnation, love it or hate it, gives the Necrons a whole wide array of personality and every single empire has different goals and motives (not to mention paint schemes, markings, etc). Some Necron Lords are obsessed with finding the perfect flesh bodies to transfer their sentience back into. One Necron Tomb World was damaged during the great sleep and erased all the Necron sentience and has started basically commanding its Necrons like true robots (and is actively attacking other Necron worlds to take them over and keep growing), and there are of course dozens more little stories. The Silent King, who put himself into exile (for his unforgivable crime against his people) by leaving the galaxy after defeating the C'Tan encountered the Tyranids in the void between galaxies and has returned to spur the Necrons into action against the Tyranids (realizing that if the Tyranids wipe the galaxy clean of biological matter, then the Necrons will never find a form to transfer their minds back into).

Oh, and the biggest rival of the Necrons is now actually the Altaoic (sp?) Craftworld. Apparently they are the only Eldar who stayed true on the original path to seek out and destroy Necron Tomb Worlds while the rest of the Eldar got all caught up and destroyed in their decadence and then the Fall. Altaoic rangers have traveled the galaxy far and wide over the millennia (ever since the Necrons went to sleep) to track down and destroy or hamper Tomb Worlds from reawakening.

So with this new direction there is now tons of different possibilities for players to make Necrons forces different from each other and there are neat new takes on 'nemesis' races like Eldar & Tyranids to drive gaming plots as well as good reason for Necron on Necron battles.

And as for totally destroying the background of the C'Tan, the codex does allude to the fact that there are lots of unaccounted for C'Tan shards still allegedly cast around the galaxy. The Necron are always trying to hunt them down and imprison them (in pocket dimension prisons), but this does still leave the door totally wide open for a shard of 'The Dragon' to be on Mars and for shards of 'The Deceiver' to have done all the crazy things that's been written about him in novels. Essentially, the full power C'Tan were massively, massively powerful, and the 'shard' versions of them are closer to the idea of what we had in the last codex anyway (something that can be killed/banished on a battlefield).

So while it is a little shocking to have such a massive fluff change hit, I do think it is probably the right way forward to create a more fully realized faction. But I do think it is probably going to be a massive turn-off to those players who absolutely adored the old fluff for the army.

----

Regarding the previous fluff saying that Necrons went into hibernation due to a massive 'Enslavers' invasion, in the new fluff they only really briefly mention that the wars unleashed some nasty things from the Warp, but they literally do not mention the Enslavers anymore. It is very clear that the Eldar empire is the main reason they go into hibernation, having some sort of premonition that the Eldar can and will eventually crumble as all living beings and empires do.

It was a fairly solid plan, except a lot can go wrong when you're sleeping for 60 million years, and apparently billions of Necrons have been killed by simple, normal shifts in the galaxy in that time (stars going supernova, tectonics crushing tombs, etc)...but what they didn't predict was how poorly they'd all awake from the sleep. All Necrons were supposed to wake up at once, but that didn't happen. Some Necrons woke up during all periods of history (including the Horus Heresy) and many still haven't woken up. And in some cases those that wake up have suffered terrible afflictions (like the Flayer disease).

Since there are any number of strange and undocumented Tomb Worlds now, there is totally space for you to come up with whatever backstory and motivations you want for your personal Tomb World, much like every other codex allows players. Of course, there are also dozens of tiny little story snippets (as there are in every new codex) that give you plenty of inspiration to create and play armies as well. For example, say you really like the whole 'automaton' feeling the army had in the old codex. Well, in the codex they have a story telling of one Tomb World that during hibernation accidentally erased all the sentience from the sleeping Necrons and decided to 'take them over' and has since decided this is the way forward for the Necron race and is actively attacking other Necron Tomb Worlds to collect more bodies for the cause. Basically the only sentient brain in that whole army is the Tomb World itself (it even has given itself a name). So you could definitely use this backstory as 'your' Necron force and stick with more of a simple, robotic feel to your army.

----

Bits of the fluff talk about other races & systems paying 'tribute' to the Necrons...here's my speculation based on what I read:

Necrons have always felt like they got the short end of the stick. When they were Necrontyr, they had a crappy planet and that drove them to invent technology and get the hell off their planet...but they still wanted to prove they were the best so they set about trying to creat the greatest galactic empire. And they did...but then as always happens, their empire started to creak and moan, so the war against the Old Ones started with naturally the belief that the Necrontyr would destroy the Old Ones and emerge even greater than before, the true heirs to the galaxy. And in fact they hated the Old Ones if for no other reason than because they had the secret for immortality (what the Necrontyr wanted more than anything) but wouldn't share it. And once the war started, naturally the Necrontyr couldn't beat the Old Ones despite their superior technology, as the Old Ones had access to the Webway which meant they could escape anytime they needed.

So eventually the Old Ones (and the races they created) were kicking the crap out of the Necrontyr. And so in the frustration of again getting the short end of the stick, they made the pact wit the Deceiver and sold their souls for immortality and power. But again, they felt shafted because they had essentially been tricked into doing this. So after the C'Tan had killed the Old Ones, they again wanted to take their rightful place as rules of the galaxy but they knew that would never happen as long as they were slaves to the C'Tan, so they turned on them as this is the only way they'd ever be free.

But of course that battle against the C'Tan did tremendous damage to them and thus they decided to use their immortality to 'outlast' the Eldar empire (which they did).

So now that they're back awake (mostly), although they've lost their main command structure as a people that sort of drove them forward towards any single goal, I think their goal is still to do what they always wanted...to rule the galaxy, to be the supreme beings. And this isn't exactly the same as humans, who basically want to eradicate all Xenos and populate all the planets themselves. Necrons more than anything (I think) want to be in control. They want to be worshipped by others. They finally want to get their due as being the rulers. So while they most certainly plan to destroy any force that gets in their way, I also get the distinct feeling from the new fluff that (with at least some of the Lords) they are perfectly okay with leaving existing planets/systems under alien control, as long as those people pay them tribute. Even though I have a hard time imagining what tribute the Necrons would really need (being robots and all), I don't think that's the point. The point is that the other races are paying them fealty and recognizing the mastery of the Necrons, which is precisely what they've always wanted.



NECRON ARMY-WIDE SPECIAL RULES

• We'll Be Back from the previous codex has been replaced by Reanimation Protocols (sorry I keep accidentally calling it Resurrection Protocols in some of these teasers). It now works at the end of each phase, but only on a 5+. You now remove models and place a token or marker next to the unit to remind you how many rolls to make (although you could just use the downed models as markers, but the important thing is you know that these markers don't affect gameplay at all). The rules are very clear about when/how models that return to play via RP are placed and if the entire unit is wiped out then the unit is gone and no RP rolls can be taken. Similarly, if the only model left in the unit is a character (such as a joined IC or a Cryptek/Lord) then these models alone are not sufficient to allow the other models to attempt their RP rolls. Nearly every non-vehicle unit in the game benefits from RP (as opposed to the old WBB, which only worked for 'Necrons'), except for the C'Tan shards.

Reanimation Protocols returns the model to play with a single wound unless they have a Phylactery in which case they come back (the first time they get back up) with D3 wounds.


• Ever-Living. This is basically just an additional Reanimation Protocol rule that characters have to describe how they're placed back on the table. Only characters (including basic Lords & Crypteks) have this rule, no squads do. The only real thing to note about it is that if the model wasn't joined to a unit when it went down, then if it returns to play it must be placed within 3" of the spot it fell. So characters are the only models it really matters where their 'marker' is placed when they are removed. So in some situations, such as an enemy unit killing a character with Ever-Living in CC and then consolidating on top of his marker, it would be entirely possible to prevent him from returning to play (as they can't if you are unable to place them within 3" of the spot they went down).


• Entropic Strike. This is mainly a Scarab rule, but it also applies to a few close combat weapons in the army as well. Basically if a model suffers an unsaved wound from an Entropic weapon then it has it armor save immediately changed to '-'. Obviously this would only apply to multi-wound models as any other type of model would be dead if it suffered an unsaved wound (ignoring the argument about whether a wound stopped by 'Feel No Pain' still counts as an unsaved Wound or not). Against vehicles, for each hit by this weapon type means at the end of the phase you roll a D6 and on a 4+ the vehicle's armor value is reduced by '1' on all facings. If a vehicle is reduced to '0' on any facing then it becomes wrecked immediately.


• Living-Metal. Not just for the Monolith anymore! Many vehicles in the codex have this and it basically allows the vehicle to ignore a Shaken result on a 2+ and a Stunned result on a 4+. These rolls are made immediately when the vehicle is damaged so this is nowhere near as good as the Grey Knights ability to remove Shaken/Stunned results.


• Phase out is gone (good riddance, I say ).


• There doesn't appear to be any Force Org shifting around in this codex at all unlike most other recent codexes (so taking any special character doesn't allow you to take a unit in a different section of the Force Org chart at all).



NECRON ARMY-WIDE WEAPON NOTES

• Gauss Weaponry does NOT have rending. It retains the 'auto-glance' on a penetration roll of a '6' rule, but has otherwise has lost the 'auto-wound' on a roll of a '6' regardless of Toughness that it used to have. The Gauss Cannon is now apparently Assault 2 & AP3 (I'm assuming the Strength is still 6).


• Telsa Weapons. With these weapons for every '6' rolled to hit the 'target suffers 2 additional automatic hits'. Whether or not that means the target suffers 2 or 3 hits in this case is a bit ambiguous, but I think the word 'additional' means that its actually 3 (one for the original hit for rolling the '6' to hit and then another additional two for a grand total of 3). The big daddy version of this weapon found on a lot of the heavier vehicles is the Tesla Destructor (and is almost always twin-linked to really maximize the chance to get those extra '6's to hit). All Tesla weapons are 24" and AP '-', but the Destructor is S7, Assault 4 and 'Arc' (which means you roll a D6 each unit, friendly and enemy, within 6" of your target and on a '6' they are struck with D6 S5 AP- hits as well). While the AP '-' keeps this weapon from being a premiere light vehicle killer, I think with all the potential S7 shots this can theoretically kick out, it still going to be pretty good at zapping vehicles.

The weapons go in order from lightest to heaviest as: Tesla Carbine -> Cannon -> Destructor.


• Particle Weapons. These are basically the blast weapons of the Necron army (with the exception of the pistol variant) with no special rules. They all have a pretty high Strength and a mid-range AP.

The weapons go in order from lightest to heaviest as: Particle Caster (pistol) -> Beamer -> Shredder -> Whip.


• There aren't any weapons that ignore invulnerable saves in the codex either...however there are quite a few little special abilities scattered about that simply remove models from play if they fail a certain kind of test, which does effectively ignore invulnerable saves (and any other kind of save too).



OVERALL ARMY ORGANIZATION



HQ

• Imotekh the Stormlord (Lord of the Sau): The most powerful Necron Overlord currently. A master strategist whose nemesis is the Orks (since their random nature is the only thing that can accidentally disrupt his flawless plans).

The Stormlord has a special rule that makes the first turn of the game be night fighting no matter what the mission and he can try to extend the rule into further turns by rolling higher than the current turn number on a D6...in addition, while the Night Fighting rules are in effect at the start of the Necron Shooting phase you roll a D6 for each unengaged enemy unit and on a roll of '6' suffer D6 S8 AP5 hits (as they are hit by lightning strikes). Vehicles get hit on their side armor.

And as a nice combo to this there is a Cryptek ability called 'solar pulse' which allows (once per game) at the start of any turn (friend or foe) for the Night Fighting rules to be cancelled for that turn (or apply if the Night Fighting rules weren't in effect when the pulse was launched...although Night Fighting created by a Solar Pulse does not generate Lightning Strikes against enemy units).

So I could see an army based around this using Night Fight (with Lighting Strikes, of course), and then any turn they REALLY need to shoot, you can use the Solar Pulse to cancel out the Night Fighting effects on your own turn, which still leaves them affecting enemy shooting on their turn! Seems like it could be quite nasty indeed! Oh, and he can try to seize the Initiative on a 4+ except against Orks (who confound his logic). But of course, he is also over 200 points naturally...basically the big uber-Ghazghkull style guy in the codex.


• Nemesor Zahndrekh: Overlord damaged in the great sleep who still thinks he is flesh and blood fighting the war of secession against his brother Necrontyr. Therefore, he is one of the few Necron Lords who still fights with honor and valor towards his enemies. Has a bodyguard named Vargard Obryron.


• Illuminor Szeras: The Necrontyr who took the C'Tan's knowledge to do bio-transfer and actually made it a reality...so he's the chief architect within the Necrons for actually making the bio-transference happen. He is a master of technology and can augment D3 units in the army with an augmentation.


• Orikan the Diviner: A master astromancer (a Cryptek specializing in tech that can predict the future), he is renown for knowing what will happen and when. During the game he is able to achieve a 'powered up' state that gives him a greatly increases statline, but this boost can randomly end on any turn dropping him back down to his regular stats.


• Anrakyr the Traveller: A Necron Lord whose goal is to unite the Necron Empires again. He travels to Tomb Worlds still sleeping and kills the 'lesser' inhabitants that may live there unaware they are on a Tomb World, the 'price' for this service is to claim a tithe from the newly awakened legions. Some Necrons see him as a golden crusader others don't want reunification and would rather see him dead.

He has a special rule that allows the Necron player to pick an enemy vehicle each shooting phase within 18" and on a D6 roll of 3+, the Necron player is able to fire with that vehicle as if it were his (counting as not moving for the shooting attack and ignoring any shaken/stunned results on it)...in other words he 'hacks' into the vehicle and momentarily takes control!

He also has a Tachyon Arrow, which is like a super hunter-killer missile. A one-time use S10 AP1 single shot that has unlimited range (Overlords & Destroyer Lords have the option to take this as well).

I can't imagine too many people ever taking this guy over the Stormlord (although he is 50 pts cheaper), but that ability could just do some crazy things, especially in Apocalypse games where you could shoot with an enemy titan or other super-heavy vehicle!


• Trazyn the Infinite: He is a Necron who woke very early and is fascinated with studying and collecting history. His tomb world is filled with secret trinkets including (I quote) 'a giant of a man clad in baroque power armor' (start your wild theories here!). He even will attack other Necron tomb worlds to capture artifacts from them that he doesn't think they deserve.

He has a special weapon whose affect happens after a round of combat in which he has killed an enemy and after all blows have been struck on both sides. Given that this is not a power weapon (and he just has 3 Attacks), it is not a sure thing that he will kill anybody in combat!

But if he does, roll a D6 for every model (friend or enemy) that has the same name on their characteristic profile as one of the models that he killed that turn. On a 4+ those models take a wound (armor/inv saves can be taken as normal).

Example: If the he kills an Ork Boy in close combat, roll for all other Boyz in the same combat, and on a 4+ those models suffer a wound, but NOT the nob (as he has a different name on his profile). It would seem that if he was fighting against another Necron player, then this rule has the potential to hurt his own forces if the same type of units were facing off; if he was attached to a unit of warriors that was fighting against an enemy unit of warriors, for example.

He is also a scoring unit (because in reality when he's 'claiming' an objective he's really seeking to claim a hidden Necron artifact nearby, it says).

Also, anytime he is removed as a casualty, roll a D6. On a 1, he is removed as normal (but would still get a chance to use Reanimation Protocols as usual I presume as he has that special rule too), but on a 2+ you randomly choose another model from all the friendly Lychguards, Crypteks, Necron Lords and Overlords on the table (not counting named versions of those) and remove that model and replace it with Trazyn, who counts as returning to play with the same amount of wounds the model he replaces had. And it even specifies that he only gives out Kill Points when he doesn't return this way.

He also has Mindshackle Scarabs (which is a piece of wargear that other character-type models in the army have access to). These allow the bearer to randomly pick one enemy model in base contact before any attacks are made in CC that turn. That model must pass a Ld test on 3D6. If it fails the test, it instead does D3 attacks on its own unit using the weapons/special rules of the Necron player's choice (if the model has different weapons or kinds of attacks).

So while not a powerhouse or a character that boosts the ability of your army, he is a HQ that is a scoring unit which can give you a few different tactical options.


• Necron Overlord: Generic DIY Necron Overlord (guy who rules a Tomb World) with plenty of options. Can ride on a Catacomb Command Barge (which is a one man transport) as can all the named 'Lords' above, but not those that are Crypteks in their fluff (Illuminor Szeras & Orikan the Diviner).


• Destroyer Lord: Basically the same as an Overlord but with Preferred Eenemy against everything (Destroyers now hate everybody). Has a few less wargear options as well, but can still take a Rez Orb (for example).


• Royal Court: 0-5 regular Necron Lords (lieutenants to the Overlords) as well as 0-5 Crypteks. Crypteks are masters of Necron technology, whose abilities sometimes appear like sorcery to other races, but they do not have any psychic powers...all their abilities do not require a psychic test or anything like that (nor are they ever referred to as psychic powers in any way). Any member of the Court (Lord or Cryptek) can be split off at the start of the game to lead a unit of Warriors, Immortals, Lychguard or Deathmarks (but only one per unit).

The Royal Court does not take up a HQ slot but may only be taken one per each Overlord (including the named ones) you take in the army.

Crypteks vs. (basic) Lords in the 'Royal Court': both have more like squad leader stats then character stats (1 wound each for example) with both of their base points are in the exact same range as an IG Commissar, for example. However, all of the upgrades for these guys clock in the 5 to 45 point range (each option) with probably a 15 point median for their gear, so you can imagine that these guys will very quickly eat up your points if you give them many (or any) upgrades.

The Lords have access to 4 Weapon upgrade options (Warschythe, Gauntlet of Fire, Hyperphase Sword & Voidblade) and 5 wargear-esque options (Sempirternal Weave, Mindshackle Scarabs, Tesseract Labyrinth, Ressurection Orb & Phase Shifter). Of all those weapons and upgrades only the Rez Orb benefits the unit. The rest of the upgrades just give the Lord extra benefits in combat or armor save.

So really, if you're looking to make the Lord improve a unit by leading it, besides adding some CC punch to the unit your only real choice is the Rez Orb and the Rez Orb is on the high end of the points scale for their wargear so it isn't exactly a steal to get a Rez Orb into a unit (which for those who aren't keeping up boosts that unit's, and only that unit's, Reanimation Protocols to a 4+).

Crypteks can be taken plain jane if you wanted (with only a Staff of Light), but if you want to upgrade them at all, then you have to select a 'discipline' that they follow. There are five disciplines to pick from and each one costs some amount of points to take, with the only benefit being that you get an upgraded weapon instead of the staff of light that fits into that discipline's role (all but one of these upgraded weapons are improved shooting attacks).

The 5 Disciplines are: Harbinger of Destruction (described as 'plasmancers', weapon is Eldritch Lance, wargear choices are Gaze of Flame & Solar Pulse), Harbinger of Eternity (able to read the future, weapon is Aeonstave, weargear choices are Chronometron & Timesplinter Cloak), Harbinger of Transmogrification (described as 'geomancers', weapon is Harp of Dissonance, options are Seismic Cruicble & Tremorstave), Harbringer of the Storm (described as 'ethermancers', weapon is Voltaic Staff, options are Ether Crystal & Lightning Field) & Harbringer of Despair (described as 'psychomancers', weapon is Abyssal Staff, options are Nightmare Shroud & Veil of Darkness).

Now, once you've chosen a discipline to upgrade to, you're allowed to give the Cryptek one (or both) of the listed wargear options. HOWEVER, the rules state that 'each of the wargear options can only be chosen once in each Royal Court'. So the only way you're going to get more than one Veil of Death (for example) is to take a second Royal Court and even then you're only getting a second one. So it does not look like you will be able to spam these items (and just FYI, the Veil of Darkness definitely does not allow units to be pulled out of combat).

Although there are some exceptions, for the most part these wargear options tend to benefit the unit they're leading, or affect enemy units that are trying to do something to the unit. Like giving the unit assault and defensive grenades (Gaze of Flame), you already know about Solar Pulse if you've been reading my posts closely, causing damage on enemy units Deep Striking near or assaulting that Necron unit (Ether Crystal & Lightning Field respectively), reducing one enemy unit's assault move against that Necron unit by D3" (Seismic Crucible), etc. And all of the upgraded Cryptek weapons are ranged weapons.

So in general I think the basic Lord is what you take if you're trying to give the Royal Court some CC punch (or give a unit some CC punch)...besides the obvious Rez Orb choice, of course! Instead, if you're wanting to upgrade your unit to have some unique abilities and a specialty shooting weapon in it, then the Cryptek is the way to go.

As for Cryptek anti-tank shooting, the Eldritch Lance is 36" range S8 AP2, Assault 1, The Voltaic Staff is a 12" Assault 4 attack that hits like Haywire Grenades on vehicles (2-5 = glancing hit, 6 = penetrating hit), while the Harp of Dissonance is a S6 single shot with unlimited range that is an Entropic attack (so will reduce enemy vehicle armor by 1 if it hits).

Neither Lords nor Crypteks are ICs.



DEDICATED TRANSPORTS


• Night Scythe: Fast, skimmer (not open-topped). A variant of the Doom Scythe fighter that is a 15 model flyer transport with the 'supersonic' 36" flat-out move that the new flyers (that are really skimmers) have. Can carry jump infantry models (taking up 2 spots each) and fire all its weapons even when moving at cruising speed. Has living metal (chance to ignore crew shaken & stunned) but not quantum shielding (which gives +2 armor until the vehicle suffers its first glancing or penetrating hit). AV 11/11/11 like most Necron vehicles. Has a Twin-linked Tesla Desructor as its weapon.


• Ghost Ark: Open-topped, non-fast skimmer. 10 model transport (Warriors only), AV11 with quantum shielding and living metal. Also is able to regenerate D3 Warrior models to one unit within 6" each Necron movement phase (but cannot take the unit above its starting size). Has a Guass Flayer array (5 Flayers) on each side is allowed to fire at different enemy targets. Not entirely clear whether a weapon destroyed takes out a whole array or not, but I'm leaning towards yes.


• Catacomb Command Barge: Open-topped fast skimmer that is a one-man vehicle for most ICs. AV11 with quantum shielding & living metal. Also the character can lose wounds to negate immobilized or weapon destroyed results. Also has a Tesla Cannon (which can be upgraded to a Gauss Cannon). Can make 3 sweep attacks over a single enemy unit it passes over when it moves (vehicles are hit on their back armor). When you combine this Sweep Attack with the S7 attacks most ICs have with a Warscythe (for example), this could potentially be a bit nasty.



ELITES

• Deathmarks: 24" range rapid-fire AP 5 sniper unit that can choose to Deep Strike in immediately after any enemy unit arrives from Reserves (which just allows the enemy to fire at them first?)...teleporting in from a pocket dimension to target their prey. They can also mark a single unit as their 'target' which allows them to roll to wound on a 2+. Beautiful models from the pics leaked, but at the point cost listed I can't see them ever being used except to see those great models on the table. 5-10 in a unit and can be transported on a Night Scythe.


• Lychguard: Traditionally these have been the bodyguards for the Overlords. 5-10 in a unit. Come standard with Warscythes (+2 Strength Power weapon...there is no built-in shooting weapon on the Warscythe anymore) and can replace them with Hyperphase swords (power weapon) and Dispersion Shields (gives them a 4+ invuln and when passed, reflects wounds caused by shooting onto any enemy unit within 6". They can be transported on a Night Scythe. 40 pts per model.


• Triarch Ptaetorians: These used to be effectively the 'police' (my term) of the main Necron ruler (the last of which was the Silent King) to help enforce his will onto the Lords of the Empire. They are known to respect great warriors and honor valor and have sometimes ordered Necron Overlords to stop attacking a foe they deemed worthy of respect (much to the Lord's chagrin). 5-10 in a unit. They are Jump Infantry with a 6" AP2 S5 weapon that is also a power weapon. They can swap that out for Void Blades (a weapon with Rending and the same Entriopic ability that Scarabs have) and Particle Casters (a pistol weapon). No transport option. 40 pts per model.


• C'Tan Shard: Fluff-wise, these are shards effectively controlled by the Necron (even though they have most shards locked away in pocket dimensions). Each shard represents only a portion of the power and consciousness of the C'Tan and therefore in battle the C'Tan may not even think to utilize some of its power because the portion of it that knows it has 'X' power simply isn't there. This is essentially what explains why they only have access to 2 special abilities in battle.

Basically, the Necrons know they cannot fully destroy the C'Tan (only shatter them into shards) and are deathly afraid one of them will get their full power back together and take their revenge back on the Necrons for betraying them. So the Necrons are generally hunting down the shards and locking them in inter-dimensional prisons. However they somehow have the ability to force these shards to fight for them (presumably through the Necodermis the shards reside in), although in gameplay terms there are no additional rules to represent that the shard is essentially a prisoner.

1 per FOC slot taken. Each shard must take 2 of the 11 listed ability choices that basically shape what kind of C'Tan shard you're fielding. No ability can be taken more than once in the army (even if you take 3 C'Tan shards in the army). The statline is slightly less impressive than previous incarnations of the C'Tan, but still pretty decent. Also has Eternal Warrior and ignores all terrain penalties. Still explodes D6" when they die.

These abilities each cost a different point value (between 10 & 50 points) are in line with a lot of the things we've seen in the last few codexes, things like: within 6" of the C'Tan counts as dangerous terrain for enemy vehicles & auto-mishap for Deep Strikers, making ALL difficult terrain on the table count as dangerous for the enemy army (you read that right), allowing the Necron player to change some of his deployment, making one enemy model in base contact have to pass an Initiative test or be removed from the table, etc, as well as 3 different flavors of shooting attacks one of which is a S9 AP2 24" anti-tank blast. There are even several powers which are clearly new interpretations of the old powers the Nightbringer and the Deceiver had.

As awesome as some of this suonds, you have to temper that with the fact that shards are nearly 200 points with no options, and once you factor in the two manifestation upgrades, you're talking about a unit that is somewhere between 200-300 points (depending on which two manifestations you take).

Every indication I get from the codex is that you'll just use the existing models to represent C'Tan shards, because if you think about how they're described now, a 'shard' is really much closer to what the old codex's power-level was for a C'Tan.


• Flayed Ones: 3 Attacks base (and no additional CC weapons). Can infiltrate or Deep Strike. No transport options. 5-20 in a unit.


• Triarch Stalker: Concept Sketch shows a Triarch Praetorian sitting in an open-topped cockpit that is riding on a Necron-style giant almost scorpion walker set of legs. Very cool looking IMHO.

1 per FOC slot chosen. Has a variable heat ray (which can be upgraded to a couple of other weapons) that can either be fired as a template or as an Assault 2 S8 24" Heavy2 Melta weapon. Has a Targeting relay which means that any enemy unit hit by the Stalker gets a counter placed by it that allows all other Necron units shooting at the same unit that phase to count as being twin-linked. AV11 & open-topped, but does have Quantum shielding, Living Metal & Move Through Cover. Can upgrade its Heat Ray for a Particle Shredder or twin-linked Heavy Gauss Cannon (both of which cost more points).



TROOPS

• Warriors: You know them, you love them. Described as being basically automatons, with very little (if any) sentience.

5-20 per squad and can be transported on a Ghost Ark or Night Scythe (as long as the squad is small enough to fit into those respective transports.

They have the same basic statline they had before except they now have a 4+ save. Now before you go crazy, also note that their points cost is 12 points, which is a 1/3 price drop (down from 18 points). That means you get 1/3 more Warrior models in the army for the same amount of points...it also makes losing an entire unit due to sweeping advance, not nearly as painful.

I know a lot of cynical people will hate this and accuse GW from simply making the change to sell more Warrior models, and you could be right. But personally I was always hoping they were going to make Necron Warriors not quite as tough and dump the points cost on them, so you could really take a ton of them...given in my mind they are supposed to be more like a shambling horde of undead robots than some sort of small elite force of super-warriors (but that could just be me).

So this change alone totally changes the army from out of the 'MEQ' umbrella and makes their base statline unique in the game (which is good, IMHO).


• Immortals: Immortals are said to have the ability to at least speak, but still aren't too much brighter than Warriors. These were Elite warriors of the Necrontyr before the conversion (not sure who the rank and file troops were if the Warriors were the non-combatants and the Immortals were the Elite soldiers?).

5-10 per unit. Immortals have lost their T5 (down to T4), but keep their 3+ save. However, their points cost has dropped to 17 pts a model, which is an 11 point drop (more than 1/3 a drop from the previous cost of 28 pts)! Can exchange their Gauss Blasters (which are now a rapid fire weapon) for Tesla Carbines (24" S5 Assault1, 'Tesla') Can be transported on a Night Scythe.





FAST ATTACK

• Canoptek Wraiths: Protectors of the Tombs while the hosts slumber.

1-6 in a unit. Jump Infantry who ignore terrain (don't take tests). Still have a 3+ invulnerable save and 3A base with Rending. All models can take one of a few different upgrades including a Whip Coil (nearly identical to a Tyranid Lash Whip), particle caster (pistol) or a Exile Beamer (12" ranged heavy weapon that kills a randomly chosen model in the target unit unless it passes a Strength test). Roughly the same amount of points they used to be.


• Canoptek Scarabs: Scarabs are only a few more points then they used to be. 3-10 in a unit. They are now Fearless Swarms, have Entropic Strike as well as getting Reanimation Protocols. They are also beasts now. I can see this unit being spammed in a lot of armies because it can literally tear apart any vehicle if enough of them get into combat with it. Basically any vehicle that didn't move the previous turn that finds itself within charge range of a full Scarab squad is absolutely dead (since they have 3 Attaks, 4 on the charge and each hit reduces the vehicle's armor by 1 on a 4+)!

And even if they don't manage to wipe out a vehicle with their attacks (say they get unlucky or the swarm has been whittled down), then you're still looking at a vehicle with severely weakened armor that can then likely be taken out by any shooting unit in your army in a following shooting phase.


• Tomb Blades: Jet Bikes. From the artwork, these look like Necron warriors fused into a flying crescent throne carrying a weapon harness in their arms that is base twin-linked Tesla Carbines. The fluff says that they are pre-programmed with a bunch of different flight patterns and vectors that the onboard Warrior chooses from on the fly. this mitigates the fact that a Warrior has poor coordination, but since the programs are so advanced, in reality they act basically like any other similar unit in an enemy army despite the fact that their 'pilots' are much slower to react.

1-5 in a unit. The entire unit can upgrade their weapons (Twin-linked Tesla Carbine) to a couple different choices (twin-linked Gauss Blaster or Particle Beamer). The entire unit can take any of the 3 options: Nebuloscope (increases BS to 5), Shield Vanes (increased armor save to 3+) & Shadowloom (Stealth).


• Destroyers: New fluff that says Destroyers are infected with some kind of degenerative virus that causes their sole purpose in life to be to kill their enemies. As such they hate everyone and have the Preferred Enemy special rule against everyone (as do Destroyer Lords).

First the good news: Destroyers have gone down in price like a lot of the units that were previously in the codex. The bad news is that you can only have 1-3 in a unit (yes you read that right). They are Jump Infantry now. Any model in the unit can upgrade to a Heavy Destroyer (nearly doubling its points cost)...so there is no longer a separate unit for Heavy Destroyers you just choose to upgrade some or all of them within the existing Destroyer unit. The Gauss Cannon and Heavy Gauss Cannon are now Assault weapons (to correspond with Destroyers now being JI). The Gauss Cannon has had its AP improved to 3, but lost one shot (down to 2). The Heavy Gauss Cannon is effectively the same (except for being an Assault weapon).

And let's not forget, before Destroyers tended to be the only mid to long-ranged threat in the army. That doesn't have to be the case anymore so I'm guessing that it won't be quite as big a problem to have the smaller units as it would have been fielding them at that size with the old codex.



HEAVY SUPPORT

• Doomsday Ark: Variant of the Ghost Ark transport. One per FOC slot taken. Open-topped, non-fast skimmer, AV11, Quantum Shielding, Living Metal. The Doomsday cannon has two profiles, one for if the vehicle did or didn't move that turn (with the non-moving one being 72" range S9 AP1 Large Blast). The moving profile only has a 24" range and a S7 blast. Basically described as gunboat whose strategy is to hit first and destroy the enemy before they can fire back. Also has the same two Gauss Flux Arrays that the Ghost Ark does, which can be fired at different targets than each other and the Doomsday Cannon.


• Annihilation Barge: Described as anti-infantry support platforms. Variant of the Catacomb Command Barge. One per FOC slot taken. Open-topped, non-fast skimmer, AV11, Quantum Shielding, Living Metal. Has a twin-linked Tesla Destructor & a Tesla Cannon, but can upgrade the cannon to a Gauss Cannon. Not exactly sure why you'd want to do that except for the extra range (36" for the Gauss Cannon as opposed to all Tesla weapons which are 24" range).


• Monolith: One Monolith per FOC slot. It is a new vehicle type called 'Heavy' which means the vehicle cannot move faster than combat speed but always counts as stationary when firing.The Gaus Flux Arc on the Monolith no longer automatically hits every unit within range, instead each one fires separately and can hit four different targets (which can be different targets from the rest of its shooting). Each Flux Arc is now just a straight up 3 shot weapon (instead of a random number of hits). Particle whip is now just a straight up S8 AP3 24" large blast. Oh, and if the Monolith is put into Reserves, it must arrive via Deep Strike.

35 Point reduction along with corresponding nerf in invulnerability (were you not expecting that?). Still AV 14 and still has Living Metal (although again that only helps remove Crew Stunned/Shaken now). Can still Deep Strike but no longer has invulnerability from Mishaps. Has 4 Gauss Flux Arcs (which are now just Heavy 3 instead of randomly rolled). The portal can be used to either transport any non-vehicle friendly Necron unit (that isn't engaged in combat) through it or to suck enemy models within 6" to instant death who fail a Strength Test (one or the other can be done each shooting phase). No bonus to reanimation protocols is present. Although, at the end of the day, this is still an AV14 vehicle all around, which is pretty imposing in the current game. Unfortunately all of its weapons are really close range, which means it will also now tend to be in Melta range...


• Doom Scythe: Pure fighter variant of the Night Scythe. One per FOC slot taken. Non-open topped fast skimmer. AV11 with Living Metal (but no Quantum Shielding). Is supersonic (36" flat-out) and can fire all its weapons when moving at cruising speed. Has a twin-linked Tesla Destructor & a Death Ray, which allows a 3D6" line to be drawn (with one end of the line being within 12" of the vehicle) and causes a number of hits on every unit crossed by the line equal to the number of MODELS in the unit that are under the line (so if the unit has 5 models crossed by the line, it would suffer 5 hits). Oh and did I mention that these hits are S10 AP1? Nasty indeed! And the Tesla Destructor is no slouch either! But at nearly 200 pts for an AV11 vehicle, to get within 12" to unleash this beast will probably be a bit rough.


• Tomb Spyders: The artwork makes them look much more flying and nimble, like giant Scarabs.

1-3 can be taken per FOC slot (but only together as a unit, they aren't individuals like they were in the last codex). They can now repair vehicles like a Techmarine, Big Mek, etc. Can take an anti-psychic defense against any power targeting a friendly unit within 3" (nullified on a 4+). Can still create Scarab Swarms, but only into existing swarms on the table (they no longer form a unit with the Spyder) and it can still take damage if it rolls a '1' while doing so. Can take Whip Coils (by giving up a close combat weapon and a +1 to repair vehicles) which is like a Tyranid Lash Whip. Can take 1 or 2 Particle Beamers (by removing its CC/fixer arms) to do so.

Is it me or does that Cryptek look like its been waiting to be released for 30 years?

Yak I havent even gotten to read it yet. Just wanted to say you were awesome before I settle in on that enormous post.

Thanks again for the updated Summary Yak, it is all greatly appreciated.


EDIT: If the Command barge has the Tesla Cannon as well, I honestly see no reason to ever take the Annihilation Barge. Since all that adds is Twin linked Destructor.

Sasori wrote:Thanks again for the updated Summary Yak, it is all greatly appreciated.


EDIT: If the Command barge has the Tesla Cannon as well, I honestly see no reason to ever take the Annihilation Barge. Since all that adds is Twin linked Destructor.

I think you've got that backwards. The Tesla Destructor is the nasty weapon...the Cannon is the lesser of the two.

I don't know if the Crytptek's beard is awesome because it's metal and it's a beard or silly because it's a 'not' robot with a sheet metal beard

Does the idea of a sheet metal beard seem...odd to anyone else?

yakface wrote:

Sasori wrote:Thanks again for the updated Summary Yak, it is all greatly appreciated.


EDIT: If the Command barge has the Tesla Cannon as well, I honestly see no reason to ever take the Annihilation Barge. Since all that adds is Twin linked Destructor.

I think you've got that backwards. The Tesla Destructor is the nasty weapon...the Cannon is the lesser of the two.

Yeah, but if the Destructor is on the Night Scythe (in addition to all the other Anti-Infantry The Army has) it just seems like a waste to spend that on Heavy support slot.

Just seems like the new book covers anti-infantry in spades. I really do like the Idea of the sweep attacks with a Warscythe though. Does it still follow the normal rules for attacking Vehicles? or is like 3 Auto-Hits?

Also, is the Cannon a Blast weapon?