You can also put pieces of ruined building from a Imperial Sector or .. really whatever you want.. and pin them to that like they're flying through the rubble or something.. it's what I've done with my Crisis Suits and adds a nice effect and the pinning is in the foot.
Luciferian wrote: Damn, I was really hoping the marines would have interchangeable shoulder pads. A few days ago I ordered $40 worth of Dark Angels pads
It doesn't look to me that the shoulderpads would be too difficult to swap, even on these monopose models.
I have converted all of the Deathwing Terminators into Deathwatch Terminators. All it takes is some sanding and cutting. Cutting away a shoulder pauldrons so a new one can be glued in place is hardly a difficult endeavor. If I had plans to use the Primaris Marines for my Blood Angels, I would be planning on doing that.
MLaw wrote: Do people seriously not do squash/press casting anymore?
Trying to decide if I'll be sculpting DA/BT robes on my monopose or running as more of a traditional armor + purity seals type of setup..
What is squash/press casting?
So I know it as press molding but it basically goes:
1. Get together one shoulderpad you wish to copy, some vaseline or similar substance and some GS and a stick (example: pencils, sprue, ect) and a pair of gloves.
2. Build a wad of Green Stuff on the end of your stick so that it forms a cone flared towards the bottom with at least a third to half extending past the end of the stick and set aside to stiffen slightly. Vaseline coated fingertips will keep it from sticking to the gloves.
3. Coat the surface of the shoulder pad with vaseline to prevent adhesion to the green stuff.
4. Press the flared end of the GS against the textured surface so that it completely covers the surface and leave to set.
5. After setting remove the shoulderpad and you now have a textured press mold.
6. To use the mold coat it with vaseline and then press a small amount of green stuff onto the surface of your blank shoulder pad before pressing your mold onto it. If done correctly when you remove the mold you will have a copy of your design that only needs a little cleaning o to removed the excess GS from.
Parts of America is woefully lacking hobby knowledge like this. This was enlightening - thanks!
MLaw wrote: Do people seriously not do squash/press casting anymore?
Trying to decide if I'll be sculpting DA/BT robes on my monopose or running as more of a traditional armor + purity seals type of setup..
What is squash/press casting?
So I know it as press molding but it basically goes:
1. Get together one shoulderpad you wish to copy, some vaseline or similar substance and some GS and a stick (example: pencils, sprue, ect) and a pair of gloves.
2. Build a wad of Green Stuff on the end of your stick so that it forms a cone flared towards the bottom with at least a third to half extending past the end of the stick and set aside to stiffen slightly. Vaseline coated fingertips will keep it from sticking to the gloves.
3. Coat the surface of the shoulder pad with vaseline to prevent adhesion to the green stuff.
4. Press the flared end of the GS against the textured surface so that it completely covers the surface and leave to set.
5. After setting remove the shoulderpad and you now have a textured press mold.
6. To use the mold coat it with vaseline and then press a small amount of green stuff onto the surface of your blank shoulder pad before pressing your mold onto it. If done correctly when you remove the mold you will have a copy of your design that only needs a little cleaning o to removed the excess GS from.
Parts of America is woefully lacking hobby knowledge like this. This was enlightening - thanks!
You can get a simpler and cleaner mould if you buy some Oyumaru instant mould, eBay and Amazon have it, rather than using a green stuff to green stuff mould.
Green stuff isn't amazing at holding detail and isn't nonstick, so you get less quality if you use it twice and have to mess around with Vaseline or other ways at avoiding it sticking together.
Also the instant mould is slightly flexible, meaning you can get it out of the mould easier, and melts down to be reused once you're done with it.
Anyone heard about any shortages ? I've seen one uk retailer post today that they've been shorted by GW, I've seen another one now only taking starter orders for delivery from 24th.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Anyone heard about any shortages ? I've seen one uk retailer post today that they've been shorted by GW, I've seen another one now only taking starter orders for delivery from 24th.
I haven't, but fear of it made me forego any discounts and order direct from GW for the rulebook and indices.
Vik at TheWarstore has posted two things that we probably already knew.. 1) They can't ship until release day.. 2) Stocks are extremely low on all 8th ed related releases (I suppose this means units that are not reserved for specific preorders).
He is encouraging people who are ordering now to contact them before ordering if you are concerned about getting it ASAP so they can give you up to date stock levels.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Anyone heard about any shortages ? I've seen one uk retailer post today that they've been shorted by GW, I've seen another one now only taking starter orders for delivery from 24th.
Asgard Wargames where warning of of demand outstripping supply yesterday.
My preorders have already been picked and are waiting at Firestorm Games for collection on Saturday. I preordered on the first day possible. Pays to not sit around!
Same here, and sorry if I missed it but is GW mailing out to retailers on the 17th and then they mail it out to us, or did retails receive theirs long ago and we should all be good to go? I suspect because I didnt order from GW directly I am going to be waiting an extra week or so..
Rippy wrote: I will be taking the leaks off the OP soonz due to most of the links being broken, and due to the books actually being released in a few days.
Leave them for posterity even if they don't work. The mods will lock this thread on release day anyways.
Chopxsticks wrote: Same here, and sorry if I missed it but is GW mailing out to retailers on the 17th and then they mail it out to us, or did retails receive theirs long ago and we should all be good to go? I suspect because I didnt order from GW directly I am going to be waiting an extra week or so..
regardless of when they get them or how long they had them, retailers are not permitted to ship them prior to the release date. That's per the agreements the shops have with GW.. and pretty sure it's the same for movies and video games.. not really a new or different thing..
I'm pretty sure they're allowed to ship them so they are likely to arrive on release day, certainly been the case that I've had stuff in the post on day of release.
Has anyone else noticed the power level difference between space marine scouts and wolf scouts for space wolves? They seem near identical to me but one is power level 4 and the other is 6. Am I missing something?
Also seems weird that Typhus costs less points than the generic lord of contagion...
lessthanjeff wrote: Has anyone else noticed the power level difference between space marine scouts and wolf scouts for space wolves? They seem near identical to me but one is power level 4 and the other is 6. Am I missing something?
Also seems weird that Typhus costs less points than the generic lord of contagion...
Well when you max out the squad size they become the same and Scouts can use Land Speeder Storms as Transports.
lessthanjeff wrote: Has anyone else noticed the power level difference between space marine scouts and wolf scouts for space wolves? They seem near identical to me but one is power level 4 and the other is 6. Am I missing something?
Also seems weird that Typhus costs less points than the generic lord of contagion...
Well when you max out the squad size they become the same and Scouts can use Land Speeder Storms as Transports.
Power level is calculated from points thusly:
Median points cost for the squad (no kit vs. max kit) divided by ~20.
I must still be missing something then. You can get more wolf scouts and attached captains with more wargear than you can get space marine models.
Space Marines Scouts can only go up to 10 models for 10 power level.
Wolf Scouts get 10 models as well with seemingly the same upgrade options for 8 power level. As a bonus, you can add an 11th model who gets even more options to take the unit to power level 10.
lessthanjeff wrote: I must still be missing something then. You can get more wolf scouts and attached captains with more wargear than you can get space marine models.
Space Marines Scouts can only go up to 10 models for 10 power level.
Wolf Scouts get 10 models as well with seemingly the same upgrade options for 8 power level. As a bonus, you can add an 11th model who gets even more options to take the unit to power level 10.
You are not missing it.
My guess for the lower cost is you can not max out the Pack and put it in a Transport other than a Stormwolf. They do get 'Behind Enemy Lines' But not 'Combat Squads' or 'Concealed Position'.
Scouts can take any Space Marine Transport at full Strength including Razorbacks and Land Speeder Storms if they Combat Squad'.
Rippy wrote: I will be taking the leaks off the OP soonz due to most of the links being broken, and due to the books actually being released in a few days.
Leave them for posterity even if they don't work. The mods will lock this thread on release day anyways.
Rippy wrote: I will be taking the leaks off the OP soonz due to most of the links being broken, and due to the books actually being released in a few days.
Leave them for posterity even if they don't work. The mods will lock this thread on release day anyways.
Okay, good idea
You should probably remove the dead links....who knows what files might show up there next..
lessthanjeff wrote: I must still be missing something then. You can get more wolf scouts and attached captains with more wargear than you can get space marine models.
Space Marines Scouts can only go up to 10 models for 10 power level.
Wolf Scouts get 10 models as well with seemingly the same upgrade options for 8 power level. As a bonus, you can add an 11th model who gets even more options to take the unit to power level 10.
You are not missing it.
My guess for the lower cost is you can not max out the Pack and put it in a Transport other than a Stormwolf. They do get 'Behind Enemy Lines' But not 'Combat Squads' or 'Concealed Position'.
Scouts can take any Space Marine Transport at full Strength including Razorbacks and Land Speeder Storms if they Combat Squad'.
But that is just a theory.
Ah, I did miss the concealed position difference. Thanks. The unit size and transport option stuff seem like they would be weird things to adjust costs based on, but maybe. Something just seems off to me about space marine scouts costing more than regular tacticals, other scout variants, or even specialist units like assault squads, but maybe that's all it is.
lessthanjeff wrote: I must still be missing something then. You can get more wolf scouts and attached captains with more wargear than you can get space marine models.
Space Marines Scouts can only go up to 10 models for 10 power level.
Wolf Scouts get 10 models as well with seemingly the same upgrade options for 8 power level. As a bonus, you can add an 11th model who gets even more options to take the unit to power level 10.
You are not missing it.
My guess for the lower cost is you can not max out the Pack and put it in a Transport other than a Stormwolf. They do get 'Behind Enemy Lines' But not 'Combat Squads' or 'Concealed Position'.
Scouts can take any Space Marine Transport at full Strength including Razorbacks and Land Speeder Storms if they Combat Squad'.
But that is just a theory.
Ah, I did miss the concealed position difference. Thanks. The unit size and transport option stuff seem like they would be weird things to adjust costs based on, but maybe. Something just seems off to me about space marine scouts costing more than regular tacticals, other scout variants, or even specialist units like assault squads, but maybe that's all it is.
Concealed Positions is a very, very powerful ability in 8th with the way the various deep strike rules work nowadays. Scouts are well worth their cost IMO.
lessthanjeff wrote: I must still be missing something then. You can get more wolf scouts and attached captains with more wargear than you can get space marine models.
Space Marines Scouts can only go up to 10 models for 10 power level.
Wolf Scouts get 10 models as well with seemingly the same upgrade options for 8 power level. As a bonus, you can add an 11th model who gets even more options to take the unit to power level 10.
You are not missing it.
My guess for the lower cost is you can not max out the Pack and put it in a Transport other than a Stormwolf. They do get 'Behind Enemy Lines' But not 'Combat Squads' or 'Concealed Position'.
Scouts can take any Space Marine Transport at full Strength including Razorbacks and Land Speeder Storms if they Combat Squad'.
But that is just a theory.
Ah, I did miss the concealed position difference. Thanks. The unit size and transport option stuff seem like they would be weird things to adjust costs based on, but maybe. Something just seems off to me about space marine scouts costing more than regular tacticals, other scout variants, or even specialist units like assault squads, but maybe that's all it is.
Concealed Positions is a very, very powerful ability in 8th with the way the various deep strike rules work nowadays. Scouts are well worth their cost IMO.
And the ability to choose sniper rifles might be the othere reason they cost more than tacs
lessthanjeff wrote: I must still be missing something then. You can get more wolf scouts and attached captains with more wargear than you can get space marine models.
Space Marines Scouts can only go up to 10 models for 10 power level.
Wolf Scouts get 10 models as well with seemingly the same upgrade options for 8 power level. As a bonus, you can add an 11th model who gets even more options to take the unit to power level 10.
You are not missing it.
My guess for the lower cost is you can not max out the Pack and put it in a Transport other than a Stormwolf. They do get 'Behind Enemy Lines' But not 'Combat Squads' or 'Concealed Position'.
Scouts can take any Space Marine Transport at full Strength including Razorbacks and Land Speeder Storms if they Combat Squad'.
But that is just a theory.
Ah, I did miss the concealed position difference. Thanks. The unit size and transport option stuff seem like they would be weird things to adjust costs based on, but maybe. Something just seems off to me about space marine scouts costing more than regular tacticals, other scout variants, or even specialist units like assault squads, but maybe that's all it is.
Concealed Positions is a very, very powerful ability in 8th with the way the various deep strike rules work nowadays. Scouts are well worth their cost IMO.
It is very powerful, but that should be factored into the cost of the model then and wolf scouts and space marine scouts have the same point cost. They also have a lower point cost than tacticals, so I'm not seeing how that would make the power cost more but it seems to make sense to you guys.
lessthanjeff wrote: I must still be missing something then. You can get more wolf scouts and attached captains with more wargear than you can get space marine models.
Space Marines Scouts can only go up to 10 models for 10 power level.
Wolf Scouts get 10 models as well with seemingly the same upgrade options for 8 power level. As a bonus, you can add an 11th model who gets even more options to take the unit to power level 10.
You are not missing it.
My guess for the lower cost is you can not max out the Pack and put it in a Transport other than a Stormwolf. They do get 'Behind Enemy Lines' But not 'Combat Squads' or 'Concealed Position'.
Scouts can take any Space Marine Transport at full Strength including Razorbacks and Land Speeder Storms if they Combat Squad'.
But that is just a theory.
Ah, I did miss the concealed position difference. Thanks. The unit size and transport option stuff seem like they would be weird things to adjust costs based on, but maybe. Something just seems off to me about space marine scouts costing more than regular tacticals, other scout variants, or even specialist units like assault squads, but maybe that's all it is.
Concealed Positions is a very, very powerful ability in 8th with the way the various deep strike rules work nowadays. Scouts are well worth their cost IMO.
It is very powerful, but that should be factored into the cost of the model then and wolf scouts and space marine scouts have the same point cost. They also have a lower point cost than tacticals, so I'm not seeing how that would make the power cost more but it seems to make sense to you guys.
I think it comes down to Scouts can deploy closer to the enemy and pull off a 2+ Save real easy. Also rather than increase the cost of the Sniper Rifle they just increased the price of the scout.
On the firepower side of things, scouts can put out the same Power as a Tactical Squad, get into a better position to Assault and Pick of character. That gives them a lot of flexibility, something that points might be accounting for.
The 24-hour long stream will be broadcast live to Warhammer TV’s Facebook page, meaning that it will be free to watch, and will run from 00:00:01 on Saturday morning to 23:59:59 on Saturday night, local UK time (BST).
Hosted by Warhammer Live’s Rob and Eddie (kept functioning with an appropriate and continuous supply of caffeinated beverages) and featuring guest players from the Games Workshop studio and the community, this will be a show to remember.
We’ll be kicking things off in the early hours of Saturday with an appearance from Pete Foley, manager of the Warhammer Studio Team and avid Warhammer 40,000 fan. Join us for an insight into the principles behind the new edition.
Then it’s straight into gaming, and we’re very thankful to have special guest players from the newly-founded Triumvirate podcast, who will be battling through the night and bringing you some great games of Warhammer 40,000 into the early hours.
As the world starts to wake up to the new Warhammer 40,000, we’ll be bringing you live reports from Warhammer and Games Workshop stores across the world, letting you celebrate the launch as it occurs in each time zone – from Australia through Asia, Europe, Canada and the US – this is going to be a truly global event!
Throughout the day, the studio team who worked on the new Warhammer 40,000 will be joining us to chat about their part in project, and what they’re excited about with the new game, background and miniatures.
Of course, there will be plenty of games too – LOADS of games. More games than is reasonable to play in a day.
We’re delighted to be joined by guest players from across the Warhammer 40,000 community, including Paul from the Forge the Narrative podcast, and the team from the Tabletop Tactics youtube channel.
So, join us this Saturday, on the Warhammer TV Facebook page, to tune in to the biggest Warhammer 40,000 live release event ever!*
*Partly because we haven’t done one before, but regardless, it’s going to be awesome.
Anpu42 wrote: [spoiler]
I think it comes down to Scouts can deploy closer to the enemy and pull off a 2+ Save real easy. Also rather than increase the cost of the Sniper Rifle they just increased the price of the scout.
On the firepower side of things, scouts can put out the same Power as a Tactical Squad, get into a better position to Assault and Pick of character. That gives them a lot of flexibility, something that points might be accounting for.
Let me just make sure I'm explaining my concern correctly because I think there might be a misunderstanding here.
If you're comparing a space marine scout to a tactical squad, it costs less points but more power. That should mean by themselves that they are worse (and they do have a worse save) but can be kitted out to be better (giving them cloaks and sniper rifles for example, but they can both take a heavy weapon like a missile launcher). So everything seems good so far, but now lets look at the wolf scouts.
Compare a wolf scout unit to a tactical squad (or grey hunters or whatever), they cost less points and less power. The wolf scouts get the same upgrade options to go for camo cloaks, sniper rifles, and instead of just getting one heavy/special weapon option you actually get 2 so they have more upgrade options to be better though. That should make their power level go up at least as much as the scouts do but they don't. They get more upgrades than the space marine scouts and that doesn't seem reflected in their power level the same way it is for the space marine scouts.
Special rules and transport options can't be the justification for the difference because then that would be reflected in the point cost as well but space marine scouts and wolf scouts both cost 11 points so they've been determined to be equal to each other. The only difference has to be coming from the wargear options but it's working backwards from how it's described. Taking more upgrades and special options is costing less power level.
Anpu42 wrote: [spoiler]
I think it comes down to Scouts can deploy closer to the enemy and pull off a 2+ Save real easy. Also rather than increase the cost of the Sniper Rifle they just increased the price of the scout.
On the firepower side of things, scouts can put out the same Power as a Tactical Squad, get into a better position to Assault and Pick of character. That gives them a lot of flexibility, something that points might be accounting for.
Let me just make sure I'm explaining my concern correctly because I think there might be a misunderstanding here.
If you're comparing a space marine scout to a tactical squad, it costs less points but more power. That should mean by themselves that they are worse (and they do have a worse save) but can be kitted out to be better (giving them cloaks and sniper rifles for example, but they can both take a heavy weapon like a missile launcher). So everything seems good so far, but now lets look at the wolf scouts.
Compare a wolf scout unit to a tactical squad (or grey hunters or whatever), they cost less points and less power. The wolf scouts get the same upgrade options to go for camo cloaks, sniper rifles, and instead of just getting one heavy/special weapon option you actually get 2 so they have more upgrade options to be better though. That should make their power level go up at least as much as the scouts do but they don't. They get more upgrades than the space marine scouts and that doesn't seem reflected in their power level the same way it is for the space marine scouts.
Special rules and transport options can't be the justification for the difference because then that would be reflected in the point cost as well but space marine scouts and wolf scouts both cost 11 points so they've been determined to be equal to each other. The only difference has to be coming from the wargear options but it's working backwards from how it's described. Taking more upgrades and special options is costing less power level.
Please take this talk on scouts to the non rumors and news section. Doesent belong here. Tactics would be better.
As for the stream, kinda a fail. You have your game released on Saturday. They will be out playing it, or at a game store etc. I cant see many people sitting and watching others play when they have the game themselves.
Please take this talk on scouts to the non rumors and news section. Doesent belong here. Tactics would be better.
As for the stream, kinda a fail. You have your game released on Saturday. They will be out playing it, or at a game store etc. I cant see many people sitting and watching others play when they have the game themselves.
If that's the better place for it I'd be happy to comply but I don't feel like it's a tactics discussion. That seems more reserved for how to use the units in a game. I brought it here because it seems more like news about how costing of units works and if it is priced incorrectly I'm curious how that would be handled. Point costs can be adjusted as far as we know, but I don't know how they can adjust power levels if those are going to be printed on the data sheets themselves. They only described changing the pages of point levels in the back.
Please take this talk on scouts to the non rumors and news section. Doesent belong here. Tactics would be better.
As for the stream, kinda a fail. You have your game released on Saturday. They will be out playing it, or at a game store etc. I cant see many people sitting and watching others play when they have the game themselves.
If that's the better place for it I'd be happy to comply but I don't feel like it's a tactics discussion. That seems more reserved for how to use the units in a game. I brought it here because it seems more like news about how costing of units works and if it is priced incorrectly I'm curious how that would be handled. Point costs can be adjusted as far as we know, but I don't know how they can adjust power levels if those are going to be printed on the data sheets themselves. They only described changing the pages of point levels in the back.
Discussing the merits of a system, or the individual units effectiveness under the system in a prolonged fashion, is undoubtedly not a topic for news and rumours
lessthanjeff wrote: I'm not trying to discuss a tactical comparison or the strengths of two specific units and when/where to use them. I'm trying to figure out how the power levels and points costs of all units work in the new game using a specific example of two units that should be near identical.
If you have a better place for me to ask that then please direct me but the suggestion of tactics seems like a worse place. To me, how a new costing system like power level works for a game that hasn't come out yet sounds more like news/rumors than tactics.
The rules are out in the wild already. Take it to 40k General Discussion.
lessthanjeff wrote: I'm not trying to discuss a tactical comparison or the strengths of two specific units and when/where to use them. I'm trying to figure out how the power levels and points costs of all units work in the new game using a specific example of two units that should be near identical.
If you have a better place for me to ask that then please direct me but the suggestion of tactics seems like a worse place. To me, how a new costing system like power level works for a game that hasn't come out yet sounds more like news/rumors than tactics.
Actually, it sounds more like a 40K General Discussion topic than News or Rumor.
They were just reading entries from the Forgeworld indexes on the stream and the bit I caught was the Mastodon carries 40 peeps and the Hellforged Mastodon has the Machina Malifica rule that the Leviathan Dreadnought does as well as when a unit disembarks, on a 1, it eats one of the models in the unit and triggers Machina Malifica.
skarsol wrote: They were just reading entries from the Forgeworld indexes on the stream and the bit I caught was the Mastodon carries 40 peeps and the Hellforged Mastodon has the Machina Malifica rule that the Leviathan Dreadnought does as well as when a unit disembarks, on a 1, it eats one of the models in the unit and triggers Machina Malifica.
I have to say that I am surprised by some of the units they did and did not include in the Forgeworld index books. The Necron have rules for their Pylon, but not the smaller pylon things that came out a few years ago.
cuda1179 wrote: I have to say that I am surprised by some of the units they did and did not include in the Forgeworld index books. The Necron have rules for their Pylon, but not the smaller pylon things that came out a few years ago.
Fear not for they do, it's called the Sentry Pylon, it's right under the Night Shroud
skarsol wrote: They were just reading entries from the Forgeworld indexes on the stream and the bit I caught was the Mastodon carries 40 peeps and the Hellforged Mastodon has the Machina Malifica rule that the Leviathan Dreadnought does as well as when a unit disembarks, on a 1, it eats one of the models in the unit and triggers Machina Malifica.
skarsol wrote: They were just reading entries from the Forgeworld indexes on the stream and the bit I caught was the Mastodon carries 40 peeps and the Hellforged Mastodon has the Machina Malifica rule that the Leviathan Dreadnought does as well as when a unit disembarks, on a 1, it eats one of the models in the unit and triggers Machina Malifica.
cuda1179 wrote: I have to say that I am surprised by some of the units they did and did not include in the Forgeworld index books. The Necron have rules for their Pylon, but not the smaller pylon things that came out a few years ago.
Unless I'm mistaken, the Sentry Pylons are the smaller pylons you're talking about and they are in the index (two of the three, anyway).
skarsol wrote: They were just reading entries from the Forgeworld indexes on the stream and the bit I caught was the Mastodon carries 40 peeps and the Hellforged Mastodon has the Machina Malifica rule that the Leviathan Dreadnought does as well as when a unit disembarks, on a 1, it eats one of the models in the unit and triggers Machina Malifica.
If that's true, filling this thing with cultists and having them pop in and out every turn to have them die and heal it will be very powerful.
It also sounds like it's one die total, not one per cultist. So not even remotely powerful, given you'd on average heal 1 wound a game from two cultist units.
Anyone notice that power axes are only S1 for Grey Hunters? I'm sure it's a typo, but having Space Marines be half as strong as a Grot is hilarious to me.
With the non-codex SM focus, I didn't see anything that truely sets them apart as chapters from each other beyond individual units and the occasional wargear. Did they get rid of army wide special rules like the counterattack that SW used to get, stubborn for DA, and furious charge for BA?
warboss wrote: With the non-codex SM focus, I didn't see anything that truely sets them apart as chapters from each other beyond individual units and the occasional wargear. Did they get rid of army wide special rules like the counterattack that SW used to get, stubborn for DA, and furious charge for BA?
That's pretty much all there is. No army wide special rules unfortunately.
I love how they suggest you practice painting death guard models by painting a deamon engine to go along with the bloat drone. The link takes you to the forgefiend a unit that deathguard can not take nice one GW
warboss wrote: Did they get rid of army wide special rules like the counterattack that SW used to get, stubborn for DA, and furious charge for BA?
At least in the Index leaks, army special rules were extremely stripped-down. I'm pretty sure that the only USRs added are either ones that commonly appear on new units, that modify weapon options, or are a new psychic power list. For instance, new Deathwatch units get Special Issue Ammo, but existing entries like chaplains don't get special ammo, and a large section of the army mod section just covers some slight changes in wargear options (captains can take xenophase; chaplains can't take power fists or jump packs, etc.)
darthryan wrote: I love how they suggest you practice painting death guard models by painting a deamon engine to go along with the bloat drone. The link takes you to the forgefiend a unit that deathguard can not take nice one GW
The comedy was watching the live game last weekend where they were getting their own rules wrong.
They were making DG rolls for units that don't have the ability...
warboss wrote: Did they get rid of army wide special rules like the counterattack that SW used to get, stubborn for DA, and furious charge for BA?
At least in the Index leaks, army special rules were extremely stripped-down. I'm pretty sure that the only USRs added are either ones that commonly appear on new units, that modify weapon options, or are a new psychic power list. For instance, new Deathwatch units get Special Issue Ammo, but existing entries like chaplains don't get special ammo, and a large section of the army mod section just covers some slight changes in wargear options (captains can take xenophase; chaplains can't take power fists or jump packs, etc.)
Yeah, I saw that Death Company for BA had their typical special rules but really nothing to set apart a BA tactical from a DA tactical from even SW Grey Hunters except for wargear. A single line of rules/keyword on entries would have taken care of that. With their focus likely almost exclusively on Adeptus Restartes from now on, I'm not sure how much support the Secudus Marines will get in the future or whether they'll be fleshed out individually more as chapters beyond these intial rules.
warboss wrote: With the non-codex SM focus, I didn't see anything that truely sets them apart as chapters from each other beyond individual units and the occasional wargear. Did they get rid of army wide special rules like the counterattack that SW used to get, stubborn for DA, and furious charge for BA?
That's pretty much all there is. No army wide special rules unfortunately.
Thanks. I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything as I've been following the rules leaks somewhat peripherally in fits and spurts.
warboss wrote: Did they get rid of army wide special rules like the counterattack that SW used to get, stubborn for DA, and furious charge for BA?
At least in the Index leaks, army special rules were extremely stripped-down. I'm pretty sure that the only USRs added are either ones that commonly appear on new units, that modify weapon options, or are a new psychic power list. For instance, new Deathwatch units get Special Issue Ammo, but existing entries like chaplains don't get special ammo, and a large section of the army mod section just covers some slight changes in wargear options (captains can take xenophase; chaplains can't take power fists or jump packs, etc.)
Yeah, I saw that Death Company for BA had their typical special rules but really nothing to set apart a BA tactical from a DA tactical from even SW Grey Hunters except for wargear. A single line of rules/keyword on entries would have taken care of that. With their focus likely almost exclusively on Adeptus Restartes from now on, I'm not sure how much support the Secudus Marines will get in the future or whether they'll be fleshed out individually more as chapters beyond these intial rules.
The best argument I've seen for them continuing the older lines is that they've been in development for a long time, and those molds are pricey to make, so in order to protect their investment, they probably wouldn't have been putting out new stuff like Deathwatch if they were already planning to make it obsolete.
I expect the plan is mini-dexes that cover chapter/craftworld/etc. specific rules and start off with basics handled like DLC or full replacement 'dexes (and this is a much more elaborate and expensive version of the 3.0 reboot lists), but that's just speculation
warboss wrote: With the non-codex SM focus, I didn't see anything that truely sets them apart as chapters from each other beyond individual units and the occasional wargear. Did they get rid of army wide special rules like the counterattack that SW used to get, stubborn for DA, and furious charge for BA?
That's pretty much all there is. No army wide special rules unfortunately.
Good. Now they only have to release a single codex that covers all Marines and we're finally where we should have been all along.
Yeah, ok, the Marine index is kind of just that, but I don't think removing chapter tactics is great. Nor do I believe GW will quit army special rules.
But I doubt I'm going to get my wish. They'll want to write (and reuse) plenty of background for each chapter they deem worthy, so we'll likely be back to the same old routine in no time with Marine codices clogging up the release schedule.
warboss wrote: Did they get rid of army wide special rules like the counterattack that SW used to get, stubborn for DA, and furious charge for BA?
At least in the Index leaks, army special rules were extremely stripped-down. I'm pretty sure that the only USRs added are either ones that commonly appear on new units, that modify weapon options, or are a new psychic power list. For instance, new Deathwatch units get Special Issue Ammo, but existing entries like chaplains don't get special ammo, and a large section of the army mod section just covers some slight changes in wargear options (captains can take xenophase; chaplains can't take power fists or jump packs, etc.)
Yeah, I saw that Death Company for BA had their typical special rules but really nothing to set apart a BA tactical from a DA tactical from even SW Grey Hunters except for wargear. A single line of rules/keyword on entries would have taken care of that. With their focus likely almost exclusively on Adeptus Restartes from now on, I'm not sure how much support the Secudus Marines will get in the future or whether they'll be fleshed out individually more as chapters beyond these intial rules.
The best argument I've seen for them continuing the older lines is that they've been in development for a long time, and those molds are pricey to make, so in order to protect their investment, they probably wouldn't have been putting out new stuff like Deathwatch if they were already planning to make it obsolete.
I expect the plan is mini-dexes that cover chapter/craftworld/etc. specific rules and start off with basics handled like DLC or full replacement 'dexes (and this is a much more elaborate and expensive version of the 3.0 reboot lists), but that's just speculation
Technically there shouldn't be much overlap. Half a year's worth of releases maybe? At the time they decided to redo Marines, many of the things they released would have already had design work (and therefore money) put into them. Also it is said that most kits sell exceptional at release and sales quickly drop off after that. If that's true, there is precious little risk for GW to release Marine kits.They are, after all, Marines. The moneymaker. They'll be able to get their investment back and then some even for things like Deathwatch that only had half a year to sell without worries what the future might hold.
Plus it's not like GW loses anything if they keep selling normal Marines for a little longer. The Indeces are printed and will be legal for a couple of years, the molds and box art are made. They can just gradually phase out old kits and keep making money on them until it happens.
darthryan wrote: I love how they suggest you practice painting death guard models by painting a deamon engine to go along with the bloat drone. The link takes you to the forgefiend a unit that deathguard can not take nice one GW
The comedy was watching the live game last weekend where they were getting their own rules wrong.
They were making DG rolls for units that don't have the ability...
full-on faceplam moment
Sorry, Im new to 40k and getting into Death Guard, before I waste money, can they really not take any of those models? or they can but they forgo faction bonuses like AoS? I assume they all share a major alliance like chaos or something? I really have no idea what Death Guard have for options outside the starter box.. but really liked the look of the maulerfiend/forgefiend and heldrake
Edit: to clarify, I thought all these options had Chaos <Mark of chaos> so should be playable in the same army?
2Edit: also cant <legion> be changed to fit ?
Non-codex marines do have some unique rules but they aren't quite as obvious. There are some special rules that go across various units (Unforgiven) but also the keyword. And the keyword is important because it allows generic units like tac marines to benefit from chapter-specific buffs like sanguinary priests. These sorts of effects seem small on paper but make a proportionally larger difference on the tabletop. Will these armies be completely different? No, and the shouldn't because they are still space marines; they should play and feel like a different flavor of space marines. But they will still have a unique identity that makes them distinct from generic marines or other chapters.
I went into my local GW last weekend to pick up a few replacement paints (still upgrading from the old-named paints to the new ones)... anyway, ended up speaking the the fella operating the joint and the conversation inevitably went towards 8th edition. I've not played for a few years and avoiding the Legions, Wrath of Magnus and Deathwatch releases (even though I had dreamed of them for years)... because I'm a salty, salty sod.
Relevant to some comments posted on this thread recently, the manager was under the strong impression that the Index release is a 'catch-all' book to get everyone on the same page for the 8th edition release, but that codices will follow that expand on the 'flavour' of each force, introducing more special rules for each faction, a mopping up any issues / changes as well as allowing the addition of new kits (and in particular, some named characters who went *blip* beforehand).
Anyway, take with a bag of salt as at the end of the day it could have just been the managers opinion.
Oh, well since that's proved to be already the case, I'll add that he expects Vect, Duke Sliscus and Lady Malys to make a return as well as Grukk and a few others.
Maybe that's also been posted before, at this stage I don't have a monkeys with all the info coming out
. Seriously, though. That's the old kit with a head swap. Still looks cool, though.
