Is it me or is Astra militarum one of the most awesome armies this edition not just the fact imperial soup gives you so many options or the scions are borderline overpowered But I can take my DKOK add some spawn and play a chaos renegade and heretic list or add some genesteakers and a primus and play a genestealer list. They seem to be the most flexible army this edition.
Yeah, I assume they are either unaware of the new vehicle stats or just being hyperbolic. Unless they got a hold of the dreadclaw rules early and those are made of tissue paper or something.
Or you could assume I'd actually read the rules and applied them as written
CSM Transports can have Combi-weapons
Combi-Plasmas are Combiweapons
Combi-Plasmas can Overheat
When CSM Combi-Plasmas overheat, "the model is slain"
No CSM Transport rules override this
The Transport rules for embarked models kick in when the transport is "destroyed"
Assuming Slain = Destroyed, an overheat will both remove the transport and potentially kill one of the embarked models
Also, as the transport will NOT be "reduced to 0 wounds" the transport does not explode
So an unlucky CSM transport gunner has the potential to implode his own transport and one of his friends, leaving enemies completely unharmed and the unit sitting in the middle of nowhere wondering where their metal box went.
But thanks for assuming I'm either illiterate or stupid, that's always a fun thing to read
casvalremdeikun wrote: Razorbacks with the Lascannon and Twin Plasmagun can blow themselves up as well.
The real question is, when you overheat a plasma weapon on a transport, do they still Explode?
I'd say no, because they aren't "reduced to 0 wounds." No wounds are even dealt.
Reduce to zero wounds = slain.
Ah, you're more likely correct. I had the old style wording of "model is removed" in my head for some reason. That will teach me to look up the rule before commenting. :(
Yeah, I assume they are either unaware of the new vehicle stats or just being hyperbolic. Unless they got a hold of the dreadclaw rules early and those are made of tissue paper or something.
Or you could assume I'd actually read the rules and applied them as written
CSM Transports can have Combi-weapons
Combi-Plasmas are Combiweapons
Combi-Plasmas can Overheat
When CSM Combi-Plasmas overheat, "the model is slain"
No CSM Transport rules override this
The Transport rules for embarked models kick in when the transport is "destroyed"
Assuming Slain = Destroyed, an overheat will both remove the transport and potentially kill one of the embarked models
Also, as the transport will NOT be "reduced to 0 wounds" the transport does not explode
So an unlucky CSM transport gunner has the potential to implode his own transport and one of his friends, leaving enemies completely unharmed and the unit sitting in the middle of nowhere wondering where their metal box went.
But thanks for assuming I'm either illiterate or stupid, that's always a fun thing to read
So plasma weapons are not worth taking on multi wound units correct?
Alpharius wrote: Wait - vehicles don't ignore the 'gets hot' part of plasma in 8th edition?
They do not. Plasma weapons that are intended to go on vehicles all do 1 mortal wound on a to hit of 1 (as far as I've seen). EG: Helbrute Plasma Cannon does 1 mortal wound on a 1.
The Leman Russ Demolisher's Plasma Cannon sponsons flat out destroy the tank if any of the to hit rolls are ones.
Yep, so hey dont overcharge your weapons on your expensive units!! plasma even not overcharged is still pretty good for its points. "Hey this incredibly dangerous thing that we now have a choice to do can have bad repercussions. We better factor that into our game plan". I find it hard to be upset about something when you have complete control over the chance of it happening or not.
Also holy gak those laser destroyers!!! Might actually be worth considering compared to a quad lascannon depending on points.
Leth wrote: Yep, so hey dont overcharge your weapons on your expensive units!! plasma even not overcharged is still pretty good for its points. "Hey this incredibly dangerous thing that we now have a choice to do can have bad repercussions. We better factor that into our game plan". I find it hard to be upset about something when you have complete control over the chance of it happening or not.
Also holy gak those laser destroyers!!! Might actually be worth considering compared to a quad lascannon depending on points.
Though it's rules don't make sense to me.
You have to successfully inflict damage to roll the 2D6... So as rules like nurgles whatever is taken once the damage is caused, if that fails you then roll the 2D6 for damage. What happens if you first rolled a 6 on the 1D6, then do you roll an additional D6 (and another if you roll another 6), or do you discard the first 6 damage and then roll the 2D6?
Obviously it's meant to add a further dice role for damage (and another if you roll a 6), but it's wording doesn't make sense and can be argued the other way.
Yeah, I assume they are either unaware of the new vehicle stats or just being hyperbolic. Unless they got a hold of the dreadclaw rules early and those are made of tissue paper or something.
Or you could assume I'd actually read the rules and applied them as written
CSM Transports can have Combi-weapons
Combi-Plasmas are Combiweapons
Combi-Plasmas can Overheat
When CSM Combi-Plasmas overheat, "the model is slain"
No CSM Transport rules override this
The Transport rules for embarked models kick in when the transport is "destroyed"
Assuming Slain = Destroyed, an overheat will both remove the transport and potentially kill one of the embarked models
Also, as the transport will NOT be "reduced to 0 wounds" the transport does not explode
So an unlucky CSM transport gunner has the potential to implode his own transport and one of his friends, leaving enemies completely unharmed and the unit sitting in the middle of nowhere wondering where their metal box went.
But thanks for assuming I'm either illiterate or stupid, that's always a fun thing to read
I assumed you were talking about the transport being killed by enemy plasma, as choosing to take and overload plasma are things that are entirely within your control. Overcharged plasma is never worth that risk unless the rhino is already on its last wound or something, just fire the normal version and everything is fine.
Okay, something I just noticed - I think it may already have been mentioned, but I want to get clarification.
Shooting rules imply you can attack with all weapons you are equipped with. Tac marines are equipped with Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag grenades and Krak grenades.
Am I missing something or could the above marines attack with each and every weapon listed above if they were in range? I.E., shoot the bolt pistol, boltgun, throw a Frag grenade and toss a Krak grenade?
Stormonu wrote: Okay, something I just noticed - I think it may already have been mentioned, but I want to get clarification.
Shooting rules imply you can attack with all weapons you are equipped with. Tac marines are equipped with Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag grenades and Krak grenades.
Am I missing something or could the above marines attack with each and every weapon listed above if they were in range? I.E., shoot the bolt pistol, boltgun, throw a Frag grenade and toss a Krak grenade?
Stormonu wrote: Okay, something I just noticed - I think it may already have been mentioned, but I want to get clarification.
Shooting rules imply you can attack with all weapons you are equipped with. Tac marines are equipped with Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag grenades and Krak grenades.
Am I missing something or could the above marines attack with each and every weapon listed above if they were in range? I.E., shoot the bolt pistol, boltgun, throw a Frag grenade and toss a Krak grenade?
There are some restrictions on the weapon types themselves. In this case the pistols and grenades says that you either use that weapon or the rest.
Additionally only 1 model in the unit can toss a grenade.
Alpharius wrote: Wait - vehicles don't ignore the 'gets hot' part of plasma in 8th edition?
They do not. Plasma weapons that are intended to go on vehicles all do 1 mortal wound on a to hit of 1 (as far as I've seen). EG: Helbrute Plasma Cannon does 1 mortal wound on a 1.
The Leman Russ Demolisher's Plasma Cannon sponsons flat out destroy the tank if any of the to hit rolls are ones.
Leth wrote: Yep, so hey dont overcharge your weapons on your expensive units!! plasma even not overcharged is still pretty good for its points. "Hey this incredibly dangerous thing that we now have a choice to do can have bad repercussions. We better factor that into our game plan". I find it hard to be upset about something when you have complete control over the chance of it happening or not.
Also holy gak those laser destroyers!!! Might actually be worth considering compared to a quad lascannon depending on points.
Though it's rules don't make sense to me.
You have to successfully inflict damage to roll the 2D6... So as rules like nurgles whatever is taken once the damage is caused, if that fails you then roll the 2D6 for damage. What happens if you first rolled a 6 on the 1D6, then do you roll an additional D6 (and another if you roll another 6), or do you discard the first 6 damage and then roll the 2D6?
Obviously it's meant to add a further dice role for damage (and another if you roll a 6), but it's wording doesn't make sense and can be argued the other way.
When it is in response to damage, you roll the total amount of damage they take and then they try and save afterwards. So for example I get 1d6 damage on a nurgle dude. I roll a 4. He now has to save against each hit separately.
So in this case what you would do is "I have succesfully damaged you, I now roll a d6 to see if it becomes 2d6 or 3d6 damage" then you roll the amount of damage they take.
I'm surprised the Scorpion has the same wounds as the Spartan Relic Tank, which is far cheaper (power level wise) and has a 2+ save.
The Scorpion also has a 5++ and regenerates a wound every turn.
Also power is based on the most expensive loadout. Because the spartan has a lot of options in how it can be equipped it will probably be more expensive powerwise. Also its a trade off of damage versus transport capacity. We dont really know what the power represents until we see the cost sheet.
Stormonu wrote:Okay, something I just noticed - I think it may already have been mentioned, but I want to get clarification.
Shooting rules imply you can attack with all weapons you are equipped with. Tac marines are equipped with Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag grenades and Krak grenades.
Am I missing something or could the above marines attack with each and every weapon listed above if they were in range? I.E., shoot the bolt pistol, boltgun, throw a Frag grenade and toss a Krak grenade?
Grenades say they are once per unit per turn and I beleive it says instead of other things. Pistols say you can fire all your pistols or all your other weapons. You cant fire pistols and something else in the same turn.
Stormonu wrote: Okay, something I just noticed - I think it may already have been mentioned, but I want to get clarification.
Shooting rules imply you can attack with all weapons you are equipped with. Tac marines are equipped with Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag grenades and Krak grenades.
Am I missing something or could the above marines attack with each and every weapon listed above if they were in range? I.E., shoot the bolt pistol, boltgun, throw a Frag grenade and toss a Krak grenade?
The rules pretty much spell out that you can attack with every weapon, but
1 - if you shoot with a pistol it's the only thing you can fire
2 - if a squad has grenades, in the Shooting phase only one model can choose to throw a grenade
Stormonu wrote: Okay, something I just noticed - I think it may already have been mentioned, but I want to get clarification.
Shooting rules imply you can attack with all weapons you are equipped with. Tac marines are equipped with Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag grenades and Krak grenades.
Am I missing something or could the above marines attack with each and every weapon listed above if they were in range? I.E., shoot the bolt pistol, boltgun, throw a Frag grenade and toss a Krak grenade?
The rules pretty much spell out that you can attack with every weapon, but
1 - if you shoot with a pistol it's the only thing you can fire
2 - if a squad has grenades, in the Shooting phase only one model can choose to throw a grenade
Cheers
Thanks, I just hit the next section and found those rules. Bad GW, that's poor rules writing to imply one thing, and then almost immediatley counter it under bespoke rules.
However - and again, I think someone mentioned it earlier - if you had a heavy weapon (such as missile launcher) and a basic weapon (such as a boltgun), by the rules you could shoot both?
However - and again, I think someone mentioned it earlier - if you had a heavy weapon (such as missile launcher) and a basic weapon (such as a boltgun), by the rules you could shoot both?
I'm surprised that it's a bit weaker (Knights have more wounds for example) and it lost its psychic rape but then, that works some wonders... Brass Scorpion + Warp time is now a thing. First turn charge with 8 strength 14 attacks hitting on 3+ at -4 ap doing 6 damage a pop. G'won then you crazy mofo. Ahriman on disc in support you say? Prescience as well? Why not...
adamsouza wrote: Why do people think Scions are almost broken good ?
they have access to the cheaper Astra Millitarum plasma guns even though they hit on 3+, new deep strike rules, and orders combine to make them very reliable and efficient.
adamsouza wrote: Why do people think Scions are almost broken good ?
troop choice, cheap, spams plasma or other weapons, includes deepstrike, benefits from orders, and can take one of the best transports in gattling cannon taurox which itself is pretty strong. You can deepstrike them into cover for a 3+ sv and force your opponent to charge into cover making charges harder. They hit on a 3+ and have the ability to reroll 1's. Or double shots in thier base weapon which is rapid fire ap-2. I mean what else do you need?
DaemonJellybaby wrote: Did anyone catch the Jes Goodwin interview and take notes?
Its the one interview I'm interested in seeing / reading.
I listened to it with half an ear. It was mainly "Look how awesome these new models are and here's the awesome things I thought about when trying to make them awesome" while the other guy concurred that everything was awesomely awesome. There was one bit where they asked him about the Repulsor and he responded with "wait, which tank again?" implying there are more tanks maybe, but that's about it for juicy bits.
Another thing people need to let go of is this obsession with a units battle role. Troops do NOTHING for you other than make it easier to get a few extra cmd points. Which while useful is not exactly game breaking.
Also remember that we really need to rethink how deep strike works now. 9 inches from ANY enemy is a huge difference from before. With one line of troops to the front I can create an 27 inch nullzone between your deepstriking units and the meat of my army. Add in 9 inches from the back of the board and suddenly all those points spent on a scion drop will be wasted.
150 points(50 conscripts) and I can basically force your scion deep strike to nearly be back in your deployment zone,
I strongly recommend playing at least 1 game before starting to plan a serious army or strategy. It is such a change that until you do so it will be hard to wrap your head around how different armies will be in 8th and how strategies will work.
Also remember that we really need to rethink how deep strike works now. 9 inches from ANY enemy is a huge difference from before. With one line of troops to the front I can create an 27 inch nullzone between my single file front line and the rest of my army. Add in 9 inches from the back of the board and suddenly all those points spent on a scion drop will be wasted.
Ah ok, if its just 'everything is awesome' then I'll pass, I was hoping Jes would have something interesting to say. I'm not fussed about there being more tanks if they are all as bad as the Repulsor.
Also remember that we really need to rethink how deep strike works now. 9 inches from ANY enemy is a huge difference from before. With one line of troops to the front I can create an 27 inch nullzone between my single file front line and the rest of my army. Add in 9 inches from the back of the board and suddenly all those points spent on a scion drop will be wasted.
Wouldn't it be 18" between lines?
Yes, and then 9 inches in front of your front line.
xx9 inch zonexx
frontline
xx9 inch zonexx
xx9 inch zonexx
Units
xx9 inch zonexx
Basically you will need to bust through their frontline before you bring in your reserves, which means 1-2 turns off the table. I can already feel the additional levels of tactical skill required to pull things off.
Positioning, army building, movement. It all works together much more than before and I LOVE IT. For such a simple rule set it interacts with the models in an extremely interesting way. I quite enjoy it.
Alpharius wrote: Wait - vehicles don't ignore the 'gets hot' part of plasma in 8th edition?
They do not. Plasma weapons that are intended to go on vehicles all do 1 mortal wound on a to hit of 1 (as far as I've seen). EG: Helbrute Plasma Cannon does 1 mortal wound on a 1.
The Leman Russ Demolisher's Plasma Cannon sponsons flat out destroy the tank if any of the to hit rolls are ones.
No... The LR Demolisher has a special rule that prevents it from being slain outright when firing the Plasma Cannons. Instead, for each hit roll of 1 the LR Demolisher suffers 6 mortal wounds. So while it's still possible for the LR Demolisher to destroy itself it's not a matter of rolling a single unlucky 1.
Leth wrote: Basically you will need to bust through their frontline before you bring in your reserves, which means 1-2 turns off the table.
Not really a massive impediment, it'll only take one turn to blow some large holes in your minmaxed bubble wrap setup then drop half the army in anyhow.
Just design the half of your army that needs to start on the board to be good at clearing chaff, and the half in reserve to be good at clearing heavy targets.
DaemonJellybaby wrote: Ah ok, if its just 'everything is awesome' then I'll pass, I was hoping Jes would have something interesting to say.
I'm not fussed about there being more tanks if they are all as bad as the Repulsor.
That's a bit of an unfair description of it. It was more interesting. Listening to Jes is always interesting.
One thing I found interesting is Primaris were all originally sculpted by Jes as test models - after which they had to be shrunk (!)
Also everyone, keep in mind that 'deep striking' is "more than 9" away from enemy models". This means if you want to try and assault off of the 'deep strike' you will need to roll a 10+.
oni wrote: Also everyone, keep in mind that 'deep striking' is "more than 9" away from enemy models". This means if you want to try and assault off of the 'deep strike' you will need to roll a 10+.
A 9 actually, remember the engage distance is 1".
It is still only a ~25% chance of success without things like re-rolls. So very risky, and not something to rely on.
Mr Morden wrote: Interesting that the Spartan can't transport the New Marines either.
I think they're really trying to drive the point home that they're separate armies to include wholesale movement into the Primaris (especially as they're fleshed out).
oni wrote: Also everyone, keep in mind that 'deep striking' is "more than 9" away from enemy models". This means if you want to try and assault off of the 'deep strike' you will need to roll a 10+.
A 9 actually, remember the engage distance is 1".
It is still only a ~25% chance of success without things like re-rolls. So very risky, and not something to rely on.
More than 9" away and within 1" means you need a 10
oni wrote: Also everyone, keep in mind that 'deep striking' is "more than 9" away from enemy models". This means if you want to try and assault off of the 'deep strike' you will need to roll a 10+.
A 9 actually, remember the engage distance is 1".
It is still only a ~25% chance of success without things like re-rolls. So very risky, and not something to rely on.
More than 9" away and within 1" means you need a 10
No it would be a 9. If you were exactly 9" away you would need 8" + 1" engage, so 9.1" means 9" + 1" engage.
Leth wrote: Basically you will need to bust through their frontline before you bring in your reserves, which means 1-2 turns off the table.
Not really a massive impediment, it'll only take one turn to blow some large holes in your minmaxed bubble wrap setup then drop half the army in anyhow.
Just design the half of your army that needs to start on the board to be good at clearing chaff, and the half in reserve to be good at clearing heavy targets.
Where is this hole gonna be considering I can pick which models I remove? Also with 50 models I can quite easily double or triple up if I want. Or even just have a big ole cluster off to the side that take all the casualties. There is no tank shock or other ways to get past my units in the movement phase so I have my entire turn to plug any holes that occur( See rough riders) or if its from assault use my fall back move to restructure my lines so I am just outside of one inch of you, cancelling out most of your movement phase.
Also remember, that is only 150 points of my army.
oni wrote: Also everyone, keep in mind that 'deep striking' is "more than 9" away from enemy models". This means if you want to try and assault off of the 'deep strike' you will need to roll a 10+.
A 9 actually, remember the engage distance is 1".
It is still only a ~25% chance of success without things like re-rolls. So very risky, and not something to rely on.
More than 9" away and within 1" means you need a 10
No it would be a 9. If you were exactly 9" away you would need 8" + 1" engage, so 9.1" means 9" + 1" engage.
150 points(50 conscripts) and I can basically force your scion deep strike to nearly be back in your deployment zone
Bubble wrap looks to be very very important in this edition. Nothing is quite as good at being bubble wrap as 50 wounds that are essentially immune to morale. Also if you end within 12" of an un-whittled down unit they are going to shoot you 200 times. Sure they are only BS 5+, but Quantity has a Quality all its own.
Leth wrote: Basically you will need to bust through their frontline before you bring in your reserves, which means 1-2 turns off the table.
Not really a massive impediment, it'll only take one turn to blow some large holes in your minmaxed bubble wrap setup then drop half the army in anyhow.
Just design the half of your army that needs to start on the board to be good at clearing chaff, and the half in reserve to be good at clearing heavy targets.
So you're saying that to counter his tactic you need to tactically target certain areas to open up a zone you exploit tactically.
I'm surprised the Scorpion has the same wounds as the Spartan Relic Tank, which is far cheaper (power level wise) and has a 2+ save.
You're surprised? One is chaos and the other is loyalist.
Or the 5+ invul the Scorpion has? Which means it _effectively_ has 10 wounds.
Or it that it regains one lost wound at the start of _every_ turn; no roll required.
Or it that it starts at S:10 vs the Spartans S:8
Or that it has a 3D6 charge
Or it's Psycher defence.
I'm surprised the Scorpion has the same wounds as the Spartan Relic Tank, which is far cheaper (power level wise) and has a 2+ save.
You're surprised? One is chaos and the other is loyalist.
Or the 5+ invul the Scorpion has? Which means it _effectively_ has 10 wounds.
Or it that it regains one lost wound at the start of _every_ turn; no roll required.
Or it that it starts at S:10 vs the Spartans S:8
Or that it has a 3D6 charge
Or it's Psycher defence.
5+ invulnerable doesn't come into play except against very few rare weapons. A lascannon's -3 to a 2+ save is 5+. If you're in cover, a 5+ invulnerable save will practically never come into play. I'd take a 2+ save any day over 3+/5++.
The regeneration is a joke of an ability. It won't heal. It can be killed in one turn.
The Scorpion does have an awesome gun and the charge range is great, but at what cost? Overpriced is overpriced, no matter how you spin it.
We'll have to see what the matched play points cost is. The power levels are wacky as hell.
The regeneration is a joke of an ability. It won't heal. It can be killed in one turn.
Wait, what are you using to kill 20+W in 1 turn? Because we've seen form the few battle reports and vids that have gone up so far that even the Land Raider is remarkably survivable, and that's weaker than both Spartan and Scorpion
The regeneration is a joke of an ability. It won't heal. It can be killed in one turn.
Wait, what are you using to kill 20+W in 1 turn? Because we've seen form the few battle reports and vids that have gone up so far that even the Land Raider is remarkably survivable, and that's weaker than both Spartan and Scorpion
The Hellforged Leviathan easily does 5-15 (d3 hits at BS2+, AP-5) in one round vs the LR. Find 5 more wounds somewhere else.
Regardless, +1 wound a turn is at most ~5 wounds, 4 if you get first turn, and that's only if you manage to take damage without dying each turn.
The regeneration is a joke of an ability. It won't heal. It can be killed in one turn.
Wait, what are you using to kill 20+W in 1 turn? Because we've seen form the few battle reports and vids that have gone up so far that even the Land Raider is remarkably survivable, and that's weaker than both Spartan and Scorpion
You're still watching low points games. Add in a model that'll likely be 500+ points and scale accordingly. And of course a land raider is survivable. It's mostly a loyalist machine.
The regeneration is a joke of an ability. It won't heal. It can be killed in one turn.
Wait, what are you using to kill 20+W in 1 turn? Because we've seen form the few battle reports and vids that have gone up so far that even the Land Raider is remarkably survivable, and that's weaker than both Spartan and Scorpion
The Hellforged Leviathan easily does 5-15 (d3 hits at BS2+, AP-5) in one round vs the LR. Find 5 more wounds somewhere else.
Regardless, +1 wound a turn is at most ~5 wounds, 4 if you get first turn, and that's only if you manage to take damage without dying each turn.
The hellforged AVERAGES 3.7 against the Scorpion with the bombard. "Easily does"...nice try though...
- Scorpion's average charge range is longer than the range of the bombard
- In melee the Scorpion does 8.9 to the Leviathan; Leviathan does 4.6 to the Scorpion.
- The Scorpion can shoot all it's weapons at the Levianthan while in combat -- 2.2 + 10.9 + 3.1
The regeneration is a joke of an ability. It won't heal. It can be killed in one turn.
Wait, what are you using to kill 20+W in 1 turn? Because we've seen form the few battle reports and vids that have gone up so far that even the Land Raider is remarkably survivable, and that's weaker than both Spartan and Scorpion
The Hellforged Leviathan easily does 5-15 (d3 hits at BS2+, AP-5) in one round vs the LR. Find 5 more wounds somewhere else.
Regardless, +1 wound a turn is at most ~5 wounds, 4 if you get first turn, and that's only if you manage to take damage without dying each turn.
The hellforged AVERAGES 3.7 against the Scorpion with the bombard. "Easily does"...nice try though...
- Scorpion's average charge range is longer than the range of the bombard
- In melee the Scorpion does 8.9 to the Leviathan; Leviathan does 4.6 to the Scorpion.
- The Scorpion can shoot all it's weapons at the Levianthan while in combat -- 2.2 + 10.9 + 3.1
I did say vs the LR, but that's my fault for misreading anyway. But vs the Scorpion it's 2.77 dmg per shot with d3 shots, so ~5.5. Edit: Oops, left out a fraction, so you were right on this one, it's 3.7.
Scorp only gets to shoot its Pistol cause the Leviathan isn't Infantry. And it does 10.6 damage in CC while the Leviathan does 4.44 with the drill. But yes, it should win, it's double the Power Points.
Vehicles in 8th are extremely durable (Not the cheap ones like a Sentinel).
I have played a 2.000 point games with my Dark Angels and my Venerable Dreadnought survided the game with 2 wounds after eating like 6 lasscanon shoots to the face and fighting in meele against a unit of 5 terminators with PowerFists (And winning).
I think is the first time in a decade where I end a game with that fella alive.
If a 20 wound vehicle can be destroyed in a single shooting round the posibilities are two:
1-You are playing a high point game and basically all the army of the enemy has focused his fire in that model.
2- Your opponent has so much luck that he should be in Las Vegas throwing dice.
Today we bring you the first part in a 5-day series taking a look behind the scenes of the new Warhammer 40,000.
We kick off with an interview from some of the designers behind the incredible new miniatures in the Dark Imperium boxed set.
Dark Imperium is quite possibly the best boxed set we’ve ever made. You can pre-order your own copy now, ready to be delivered for you to enjoy on the 17th of June.
Future War Cultist wrote: So it's a greater brass scorpion of khorne? Can we have regular brass scorpions too? Pretty please GW.
It's a greater brass scorpion because back in apoc original, there was a brass scorpion entry that was designed to be converted from a pair of defiler kits. FW made their own model for the brass scorpion but it was larger, so it became the Greater Brass Scorpion, like how FW has greater daemon models that are much larger so they have rules for Exalted Greater Daemon.
Living-metal wrote: So after reading the full index leaks is it safe to assume that relics are gone in 8th?
Till real codexes come out.
Well that is a serious bummer.
Just as long as I get my Burning Brand eventually I'll have no complaints.
You can get it, you just have to buy Bobby G.
But really though, I want Chapter Relic for my Crimson Fists. Or even Relics for Tanks and Dreadnoughts.
I imagine it'll be like last edition and Imperial Fists will cover you guys for the Most part.
Given that Crimson Fists have a different keyword, I don't know if that will be the case anymore. Which hopefully means that Crimson Fists and Black Templars will have their own stuff once the codex comes out.
Everyone saying "Just wait for the Codex " for missing units should really be saying "Wait for the Model/bitz." Any conversions have been mostly invalidated.
All missing wargear have been items not available straight out of the box that GW sells. Chaos for example lost Melta Bombs because no CSM kit comes with any.
In regards to Relics expect alot more fancy bolters, swords, axes, claws and such and less wargear you can't just find in the kit.
I'm extremely happy and also shocked that Korsaaro Kahn on Moondrakkan made it into the Index considering his official model is on foot.
People pay for twitch? That's as bad as paying to watch Cheers reruns. Cheers was great and all, but Sam dies at the end. No he doesn't. I edited that post. Guess which one.
Nostromodamus wrote: Some good-natured people feel that donating to streamers they enjoy is fair. What's wrong with donating to support something you enjoy?
Donating to Jonny Nobody playing Hearthstone for 12 hours a day is a bit different than 'donating' to a company like GW.
Nostromodamus wrote: Some good-natured people feel that donating to streamers they enjoy is fair. What's wrong with donating to support something you enjoy?
Donating to Jonny Nobody playing Hearthstone for 12 hours a day is a bit different than 'donating' to a company like GW.
To be honest I figured they would want to help sell as much stuff as possible so making these matchup games open to everyone would probably be a smart business move. Someone sees a cool combo, they will go out and buy the models, but those same people may not pay to see that same combo because they couldn't be bothered.
Nostromodamus wrote: Some good-natured people feel that donating to streamers they enjoy is fair. What's wrong with donating to support something you enjoy?
Donating to Jonny Nobody playing Hearthstone for 12 hours a day is a bit different than 'donating' to a company like GW.
He didn't specify GW.
I wouldn't sub to GW, they don't make a living on Twitch, but I don't see why it's a bad thing to donate to people putting in genuine effort to run an entertaining cast.
Repulsor tank :
it's not a grav tank, it's nothing like a speeder.
Goddamnit Jes, why insult our intelligence like this. It's a floating tank with big plates on the bottom that generate lift and is propelled forward by big ol' turbine engines on the back, you might as well have called it the Land Floater, it's a gravtank. Frankly I'd prefer they just retcon inconvenient fluff rather than trying to make up new, hilariously unconvincing fluff to explain how a thing that is exactly the same as another thing is in fact totes different because look, we called it "repulsor" not "grav" - we can, much as it pains us to have to, ignore fluff we don't like; ignoring that you evidently seem to think we're drooling morons is a tad harder.
Maybe it doesn't manipules gravity and it works instead by magnetic force. Those metal plates are all giant magnets that... "repel" the minerals of the ground... thats why is called Repulsor...
Repulsor tank sounds like they were watching wintoer Soldier and liked the repulsor engines on the helicarriers.
In game it's the same thing, it's a floating tank, but sounds more like they're going the Tony Stark multiple mini jet engine route rather than anti grav.
Yodhrin wrote: From the WoS transcript, re the gravtank:
Repulsor tank :
it's not a grav tank, it's nothing like a speeder.
Goddamnit Jes, why insult our intelligence like this. It's a floating tank with big plates on the bottom that generate lift and is propelled forward by big ol' turbine engines on the back, you might as well have called it the Land Floater, it's a gravtank. Frankly I'd prefer they just retcon inconvenient fluff rather than trying to make up new, hilariously unconvincing fluff to explain how a thing that is exactly the same as another thing is in fact totes different because look, we called it "repulsor" not "grav" - we can, much as it pains us to have to, ignore fluff we don't like; ignoring that you evidently seem to think we're drooling morons is a tad harder.
It came across to me that he was talking about rules-wise; warning players that though it may look like a giant speeder it does not at all play like one.
Maybe he made the common mistake of thinking the context of his statement was clear when it wasn't. We all do that from time to time, its no big deal. If it is a fluff based point though, its a silly one.
Nostromodamus wrote: Some good-natured people feel that donating to streamers they enjoy is fair. What's wrong with donating to support something you enjoy?
Donating to Jonny Nobody playing Hearthstone for 12 hours a day is a bit different than 'donating' to a company like GW.
Or you could look at it as paying an artist like Jes Goodwin. nobody is forcing you to pay anything. Take care of your hoodlums instead. Get them out of my lawn and we are cool. But seriously, keep your kids out of my front yard.
-Loki- wrote: Repulsor tank sounds like they were watching wintoer Soldier and liked the repulsor engines on the helicarriers.
TBH it's a pretty gak name for a tank. I mean all Marine units - even the Mk. II Angry Washing Machine the Mega-Marines are getting - all have names that sound dangerous, inspiring, or pseudo-Latin. This is just... the name is a factor of its function.
It'd be like calling the Stormraven just "Gunship", or a Rhino just "Transport".
-Loki- wrote: Repulsor tank sounds like they were watching wintoer Soldier and liked the repulsor engines on the helicarriers.
TBH it's a pretty gak name for a tank. I mean all Marine units - even the Mk. II Angry Washing Machine the Mega-Marines are getting - all have names that sound dangerous, inspiring, or pseudo-Latin. This is just... the name is a factor of its function.
It'd be like calling the Stormraven just "Gunship", or a Rhino just "Transport".
Well its not really consistent across all vehicles SM have.
i mean rhino, razorbacks, storm raven denotes a kind of animal, but then drop pods, land speeder, land raider really dont.
But don't worry guys. Exploding vehicles dealing mortal wounds isn't as bad as the poor souls inside the vehicle, who die instantly no matter how many wounds they have, because in the Grim Darkness of the 41st millennium the insides of transport vehicles are all rigged with Vortex grenades.
I can't find where it says this, is that truly the case?!
(Not the bit about vortex grenades...)
The actual "explodes" rule is on the appropriate datasheets (Rhino, Trukk, etc). When it is reduced to 0 wounds, before removing it from the battlefield and before occupants disembark, you roll a die. On a 6 it explodes, and each unit within 6" takes D3 mortal wounds.
In the rules for Transports, when one is destroyed the occupants disembark and you roll a die for each model. On a 1, that model is slain..
Yes, I've seen all that but didn't interpret removing the exploded vehicle as removing all passengers also. I included them in the 6" mortal wound posse. I can see how it reads that way but it doesn't explicitly state that you remove the passengers with the transport, which I would expect it to. Possibly it implies that they will disembark after the explosion... (like you'd have a choice, lol)
Nightlord1987 wrote: Everyone saying "Just wait for the Codex " for missing units should really be saying "Wait for the Model/bitz." Any conversions have been mostly invalidated.
All missing wargear have been items not available straight out of the box that GW sells. Chaos for example lost Melta Bombs because no CSM kit comes with any.
In fact, Khorne Berserkers and the CSM box do have meltabombs in them.
Does anyone know the formula for calculating power levels in to points (there was a rough one hundreds of pages ago)? Would love to figure out the rough cost of the Spartan etc as we get this news.
Also set to pick up my Death Guard side of starter in two Saturdays! Shame it's at this time when I can't afford the whole box, but no way can I wait for those DG!
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His Master's Voice wrote: Someone down the thread guesstimated it to be 1 power point = 20 points, but that was for infantry I think.
wasn't the Land speeder and raider named after the guy who discovered the STC's thought they were originally names Lands speeder and Lands Raider. Might be wrong though. but by this logic the Repulser was clearly designed by a certain villain from power rangers....
Yodhrin wrote: From the WoS transcript, re the gravtank:
Repulsor tank :
it's not a grav tank, it's nothing like a speeder.
Goddamnit Jes, why insult our intelligence like this. It's a floating tank with big plates on the bottom that generate lift and is propelled forward by big ol' turbine engines on the back, you might as well have called it the Land Floater, it's a gravtank. Frankly I'd prefer they just retcon inconvenient fluff rather than trying to make up new, hilariously unconvincing fluff to explain how a thing that is exactly the same as another thing is in fact totes different because look, we called it "repulsor" not "grav" - we can, much as it pains us to have to, ignore fluff we don't like; ignoring that you evidently seem to think we're drooling morons is a tad harder.
You're taking the line completely out of context.
He was meaning that it's not like an Eldar grav tank that zooms about the place, it's not manoeuvrable and goes about the same speed as a Landraider.
Of course it was broadcast live, so it wasn't phrased exactly perfectly if someone later wanted to be an ass and comb through something to find something to complain about.... but it was completely obvious what was meant if you watched it
Desubot wrote: i mean rhino, razorbacks, storm raven denotes a kind of animal, but then drop pods, land speeder, land raider really dont.
There can also be a weather aspect to it, Whirlwind, Land Speeder Tornado, that sort of thing. Land Raider and Land Speeder were later given reasons for those names (ie. Land's Speeder, Land's Raider). This is just functionally descriptive, and as a result quite lacklustre.
Drop Pods, sure, I'll give you that one, but really they're about as mundane as Marines get.
MLaw wrote: People arguing about vehicles named after animals while I'm here waiting for stats on actual animals #gargantuansquiggoth
I can't see anyone arguing here. Discussing perhaps.
H.B.M.C. wrote: There can also be a weather aspect to it, Whirlwind, Land Speeder Tornado, that sort of thing. Land Raider and Land Speeder were later given reasons for those names (ie. Land's Speeder, Land's Raider). This is just functionally descriptive, and as a result quite lacklustre.
Drop Pods, sure, I'll give you that one, but really they're about as mundane as Marines get.
Drop Pods are named after tech-priest Hieronymus Drop.
Yodhrin wrote: From the WoS transcript, re the gravtank:
Repulsor tank :
it's not a grav tank, it's nothing like a speeder.
Goddamnit Jes, why insult our intelligence like this. It's a floating tank with big plates on the bottom that generate lift and is propelled forward by big ol' turbine engines on the back, you might as well have called it the Land Floater, it's a gravtank. Frankly I'd prefer they just retcon inconvenient fluff rather than trying to make up new, hilariously unconvincing fluff to explain how a thing that is exactly the same as another thing is in fact totes different because look, we called it "repulsor" not "grav" - we can, much as it pains us to have to, ignore fluff we don't like; ignoring that you evidently seem to think we're drooling morons is a tad harder.
In the interview Jes was saying that it is not a 'grav tank' as in the Eldar one. The tech is different. Rather than using an anti grav field like the Eldar it is pushing the ground way (hence the name)The comparison given was that if an Eldar tank flew over glass it would be untouched, while the repulsor would shatter it. He also wanted to make it clear that it would not be very manoeuvrable.
This seemed reasonable to me. Why should anti grav tech be one size fits all?
Yodhrin wrote: From the WoS transcript, re the gravtank:
Repulsor tank :
it's not a grav tank, it's nothing like a speeder.
Goddamnit Jes, why insult our intelligence like this. It's a floating tank with big plates on the bottom that generate lift and is propelled forward by big ol' turbine engines on the back, you might as well have called it the Land Floater, it's a gravtank. Frankly I'd prefer they just retcon inconvenient fluff rather than trying to make up new, hilariously unconvincing fluff to explain how a thing that is exactly the same as another thing is in fact totes different because look, we called it "repulsor" not "grav" - we can, much as it pains us to have to, ignore fluff we don't like; ignoring that you evidently seem to think we're drooling morons is a tad harder.
In the interview Jes was saying that it is not a 'grav tank' as in the Eldar one. The tech is different. Rather than using an anti grav field like the Eldar it is pushing the ground way (hence the name)The comparison given was that if an Eldar tank flew over glass it would be untouched, while the repulsor would shatter it. He also wanted to make it clear that it would not be very manoeuvrable.
This seemed reasonable to me. Why should anti grav tech be one size fits all?
That is reasonable, but out of curiosity how does the Land Speeder's grav tech work? Does it work like the Eldar grav tech or the Repulsor grav tech?
His Master's Voice wrote: Someone down the thread guesstimated it to be 1 power point = 20 points, but that was for infantry I think.
I don't think that'll ever work out well.
Just for Space Wolves, there are quite a few units that are cross-wise in costs at power level and point costs.
For example:
Vanilla Rune Priest with default equipment = powerlevel 6 / points 84 (with his default axe, bolt pistol, etc..)
Vanilla Wolf Priest with default equipment = powerlevel 5 / points 90 (with crozium, etc..)
So the Wolf Priest is cheaper at powerlevel, the Rune Priest is cheaper in points.
Now add in their options. The Wolf Priest only has options for a pistol/combi weapon and a Jump pack, so ~30 extra points. Rune priest gets the same 2 options but also can take Runic Armour, a Psychic hood and an upgraded Runic weapon as well, for potentially ~65 extra points. Power level (roughly) assumes about half of all options are taken by the model, so very ballpark that makes it:
Rune Priest approx 117 points
Wolf Priest approx 105 points
Sorry for slightly off-topic, but "Repulsor" does also work as an aggressive, rather punnish name; yes, it 'repulses' away from the ground, but it also (hopefully!) repulses the enemy...
Yodhrin wrote: From the WoS transcript, re the gravtank:
Repulsor tank :
it's not a grav tank, it's nothing like a speeder.
Goddamnit Jes, why insult our intelligence like this. It's a floating tank with big plates on the bottom that generate lift and is propelled forward by big ol' turbine engines on the back, you might as well have called it the Land Floater, it's a gravtank. Frankly I'd prefer they just retcon inconvenient fluff rather than trying to make up new, hilariously unconvincing fluff to explain how a thing that is exactly the same as another thing is in fact totes different because look, we called it "repulsor" not "grav" - we can, much as it pains us to have to, ignore fluff we don't like; ignoring that you evidently seem to think we're drooling morons is a tad harder.
You're taking the line completely out of context.
He was meaning that it's not like an Eldar grav tank that zooms about the place, it's not manoeuvrable and goes about the same speed as a Landraider.
Of course it was broadcast live, so it wasn't phrased exactly perfectly if someone later wanted to be an ass and comb through something to find something to complain about.... but it was completely obvious what was meant if you watched it
>Has a go at someone for not paying attention to context before responding.
>Doesn't bother reading post they're responding to properly to see it has the source listed right at the top there.
I read the transcript, which is all people not subbing to GW's Twitch have to go on. Toddle over and snark at WoS if you think Jes said something other than what's written there.
Yodhrin wrote: From the WoS transcript, re the gravtank:
Repulsor tank :
it's not a grav tank, it's nothing like a speeder.
Goddamnit Jes, why insult our intelligence like this. It's a floating tank with big plates on the bottom that generate lift and is propelled forward by big ol' turbine engines on the back, you might as well have called it the Land Floater, it's a gravtank. Frankly I'd prefer they just retcon inconvenient fluff rather than trying to make up new, hilariously unconvincing fluff to explain how a thing that is exactly the same as another thing is in fact totes different because look, we called it "repulsor" not "grav" - we can, much as it pains us to have to, ignore fluff we don't like; ignoring that you evidently seem to think we're drooling morons is a tad harder.
In the interview Jes was saying that it is not a 'grav tank' as in the Eldar one. The tech is different. Rather than using an anti grav field like the Eldar it is pushing the ground way (hence the name)The comparison given was that if an Eldar tank flew over glass it would be untouched, while the repulsor would shatter it. He also wanted to make it clear that it would not be very manoeuvrable.
This seemed reasonable to me. Why should anti grav tech be one size fits all?
I don't see any mention of Eldar vehicles in the transcript quote there, I see a comparison being drawn with the speeder, a SM vehicle that previously has always been fluffed as using antigrav plating, and the implication is that the new vehicle doesn't use AG plate despite borrowing several design cues from the speeder including the gribblies on the bottom there that look very much like what used to be called grav plating, hence my comment.
Regardless, whatever it's called now the prior fluff was that the Imperium could no longer reliably manufacture military level Make Thingies All Floaty Like technology which was why only SM had Land Speeders and only Land Speeders were Floaty Thingies. If they wanted to change that status quo, I'd rather they simply ignore it as they do many other older bits of fluff than tell us suddenly there's a whole other type of Make Thingies All Floaty Like tech that the Imperium can make just fine and for some reason weren't using before now.
Oh, I was well aware you were having a go at him with only a brief summary. I also see that hadn't stopped you having a go at him about what he said despite not actually knowing what he said.
You didn't ask for a clarification about what he said, you posted that he was insulting our intelligence and other such nonsense.
Regardless, whatever it's called now the prior fluff was that the Imperium could no longer reliably manufacture military level Make Thingies All Floaty Like technology which was why only SM had Land Speeders and only Land Speeders were Floaty Thingies. If they wanted to change that status quo, I'd rather they simply ignore it as they do many other older bits of fluff than tell us suddenly there's a whole other type of Make Thingies All Floaty Like tech that the Imperium can make just fine and for some reason weren't using before now.
Why not.
The Imperium always used Grav Tech very reliably on all their Space Ships to create artificial gravity. No 40K space ship designs appears to use centrifugal designs to get people to "walk normally". Even the dingiest Rogue Trader ship has that stuff.
Can't be that rare. Switch the polarity from "create 1 g where there is none" (i.e. "pull") to "negate 1 g where it exists" (i.e. "push") and you're good to go.
Wonderwolf wrote: The Imperium always used Grav Tech very reliably on all their Space Ships to create artificial gravity. No 40K space ship designs appears to use centrifugal designs to get people to "walk normally". Even the dingiest Rogue Trader ship has that stuff.
Can't be that rare. Switch the polarity from "create 1 g where there is none" (i.e. "pull") to "negate 1 g where it exists" (i.e. "push") and you're good to go.
You realize we are talking about ships kilometers long with more power output than you can shake at? See obvious reason why it's not as easy as you make it claim?
You realize we are talking about ships kilometers long with more power output than you can shake at? See obvious reason why it's not as easy as you make it claim?
Sure.
But not all ships are that large (though they are still larger than a tank). Even Thunderhawks flying in space appear to have access to it. And the technology seems widespread and reliable enough that even long forgotten corridors and nobody's-been-here-in-decades bilge compartments in larger ships have it, even long after things like basic lights are gone.
Hell, for plot purposes, it's usually the last and only tech still running on ships stuck for centuries in some Space Hulk, long after their reactors went dark.
So it doesn't "look" like its terribly arcane tech for the Imperium.
Grav guns and even grav pistols seem to use the technology (admittedly for short-duration "shots") on a miniaturization smaller than a tank without much of a problem. Also, Elysian Grav-chutes? Presumably same tech? Inferior version? They are disposable, right? So they'd have to have continuous production, no?
I am not saying it's an automatic conversion, but if you remove the cultish/quasi-religious stigma of not doing things of the pre-Gathering Storm Imperium, it doesn't seem outlandish for an enterprising Magos (or even Tech Marine) to adapt that tech to different energy demands.
The interview did end up costing me money though, reminded me I needed to buy the Eldar sketchbook!
As for why Grav is back? They are infusing 40k with elements of the great crusade that RG is bringing.
Secularism, hope, the clean design of the Primaris, the one type of weapon per squad, now Grav. Whatever hand waving background explanation there is behind it, that's ultimately the real reason
One of the cooler things I'm liking so far about the new rules is that I can finally make my Blood Ravens into the specific chapter they should be thanks to the keywords system.
I can now pull Librarian Dreadnoughts without having to ally, and I can convert up a squad of Librarians using the Dark Angels terminators and the grey knight rules.
The only downside is that a two-thirds of their psychic powers only effect their respective factions, but it will still be cool and more importantly 100% legal!
H.B.M.C. wrote: There can also be a weather aspect to it, Whirlwind, Land Speeder Tornado, that sort of thing. Land Raider and Land Speeder were later given reasons for those names (ie. Land's Speeder, Land's Raider). This is just functionally descriptive, and as a result quite lacklustre.
Drop Pods, sure, I'll give you that one, but really they're about as mundane as Marines get.
Drop Pods are named after tech-priest Hieronymus Drop.
I believe his first name was Geronimo.
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godswildcard wrote: One of the cooler things I'm liking so far about the new rules is that I can finally make my Blood Ravens into the specific chapter they should be thanks to the keywords system.
I can now pull Librarian Dreadnoughts without having to ally, and I can convert up a squad of Librarians using the Dark Angels terminators and the grey knight rules.
The only downside is that a two-thirds of their psychic powers only effect their respective factions, but it will still be cool and more importantly 100% legal!
Are librarian dreads now a generic space marine entry?
Are librarian dreads now a generic space marine entry?
No, but as you can freely mix everything with 'Imperium' faction keyword, it really doesn't matter. (Except for Ad Mech, who for some bizarre reason got to have pure Ad Mech detachment in order to be able to use canticles.)
Are librarian dreads now a generic space marine entry?
No, but as you can freely mix everything with 'Imperium' faction keyword, it really doesn't matter. (Except for Ad Mech, who for some bizarre reason got to have pure Ad Mech detachment in order to be able to use canticles.)
For a second I was going to freak out because my Ad Mech list has a Knight Warden in it. Then I remembered he is in a separate detachment.
Question: If you take the neutron laser + cognis heavy stubber upgrade on dunecrawler, can you take ANOTHER heavy stubber since the first is part of the neutron laser? So you would be firing 6 shots?
Also if you can take 2, do you pay for both or does 1 come as part of the neutron laser?
Crimson wrote: It is actually rather annoying, considering that Ad Mech has exactly one non-special character HQ available.
Oh I agree wholeheartedly. I think the Techpriest Enginseer should have been an HQ. I wish they would go ahead and make a Skitarii Alpha Prime model and Datasheet. Tyranids get their Prime (even though there isn't a kit for it) but Skitarii don't. That is just lame.
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RoboDragon wrote: Question: If you take the neutron laser + cognis heavy stubber upgrade on dunecrawler, can you take ANOTHER heavy stubber since the first is part of the neutron laser? So you would be firing 6 shots?
Also if you can take 2, do you pay for both or does 1 come as part of the neutron laser?
Crimson wrote: It is actually rather annoying, considering that Ad Mech has exactly one non-special character HQ available.
Oh I agree wholeheartedly. I think the Techpriest Enginseer should have been an HQ. I wish they would go ahead and make a Skitarii Alpha Prime model and Datasheet. Tyranids get their Prime (even though there isn't a kit for it) but Skitarii don't. That is just lame.
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RoboDragon wrote: Question: If you take the neutron laser + cognis heavy stubber upgrade on dunecrawler, can you take ANOTHER heavy stubber since the first is part of the neutron laser? So you would be firing 6 shots?
Also if you can take 2, do you pay for both or does 1 come as part of the neutron laser?
Yes you can. And you have to buy both.
There is a Tyranid Prime kit - distinctive body and head parts in the Warriors kit.
Crimson wrote: It is actually rather annoying, considering that Ad Mech has exactly one non-special character HQ available.
Oh I agree wholeheartedly. I think the Techpriest Enginseer should have been an HQ. I wish they would go ahead and make a Skitarii Alpha Prime model and Datasheet. Tyranids get their Prime (even though there isn't a kit for it) but Skitarii don't. That is just lame.
I'm okay with the Enginseer being an Elite. They're not "full" Priests. The "Knights of the Imperium" novel has the Techpriests of the Forge World looking down upon the Knight Sacristans(said to be similar to Enginseers) as "pretenders" and "rote mechanics".
I don't think we'll see a Skitarii Alpha Prime until we see a full book for the AdMech. Hopefully it would be an interesting design/loadout.
H.B.M.C. wrote: There can also be a weather aspect to it, Whirlwind, Land Speeder Tornado, that sort of thing. Land Raider and Land Speeder were later given reasons for those names (ie. Land's Speeder, Land's Raider). This is just functionally descriptive, and as a result quite lacklustre.
Drop Pods, sure, I'll give you that one, but really they're about as mundane as Marines get.
Drop Pods are named after tech-priest Hieronymus Drop.
Ah! Hieronymus Drop, also inventor of the Skrillex-pattern Vox. He spoke in pure dubstep.
Crimson wrote: It is actually rather annoying, considering that Ad Mech has exactly one non-special character HQ available.
Oh I agree wholeheartedly. I think the Techpriest Enginseer should have been an HQ. I wish they would go ahead and make a Skitarii Alpha Prime model and Datasheet. Tyranids get their Prime (even though there isn't a kit for it) but Skitarii don't. That is just lame.
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RoboDragon wrote: Question: If you take the neutron laser + cognis heavy stubber upgrade on dunecrawler, can you take ANOTHER heavy stubber since the first is part of the neutron laser? So you would be firing 6 shots?
Also if you can take 2, do you pay for both or does 1 come as part of the neutron laser?
Yes you can. And you have to buy both.
There is a Tyranid Prime kit - distinctive body and head parts in the Warriors kit.
H.B.M.C. wrote: There can also be a weather aspect to it, Whirlwind, Land Speeder Tornado, that sort of thing. Land Raider and Land Speeder were later given reasons for those names (ie. Land's Speeder, Land's Raider). This is just functionally descriptive, and as a result quite lacklustre.
Drop Pods, sure, I'll give you that one, but really they're about as mundane as Marines get.
Drop Pods are named after tech-priest Hieronymus Drop.
Ah! Hieronymus Drop, also inventor of the Skrillex-pattern Vox. He spoke in pure dubstep.
Noise Marines confirmed inventors of the Drop Pod.
Rippy wrote: Does anyone know the formula for calculating power levels in to points (there was a rough one hundreds of pages ago)? Would love to figure out the rough cost of the Spartan etc as we get this news.
I haven't gotten done figuring this out, but it's pretty obvious that anything with a static cost is rounded to 1 per 20 points. For units with variable costs, they seem to be going on instinct, between lowest and highest costs, with less of a pattern (they're definitely not particularly consistent, tends to be around 1/20 of nearer the high end than the low end). So.. the Spartan is probably a range of mid to high 400's.
Yea, at a very rough estimate 1 power is 20 points. But as mentioned above it is not consistant when you are using units that could be very expensive, like Death Company
Rippy wrote: Does anyone know the formula for calculating power levels in to points (there was a rough one hundreds of pages ago)? Would love to figure out the rough cost of the Spartan etc as we get this news.
I haven't gotten done figuring this out, but it's pretty obvious that anything with a static cost is rounded to 1 per 20 points. For units with variable costs, they seem to be going on instinct, between lowest and highest costs, with less of a pattern (they're definitely not particularly consistent, tends to be around 1/20 of nearer the high end than the low end). So.. the Spartan is probably a range of mid to high 400's.
I don't think that there is really a direct translation.
Looking at Orks
Warboss - stock is PL 4 ~ 70 points (can be upgraded some) if PL 1= 20 points he should be 80, not crazy with upgrades
Megawarboss- stock is PL 7 ~ 140 points (can be upgraded some) if 20 points would be 140
Warboss on bike - Stock PL 5 ~ 100 points - is 20 would be 100
Weirdboy - PL 4 and ~60 - no upgrades so Should be 80 if PL = 20
Boyz - PL 5 and 60 points (~100 with full upgrades)
So 20 is an ok guideline, but some more complicated units like psykers it is not going to hold.
Jervis said on the video yesterday that the PL is based on the median between the cheapest load out and the most expensive load out on a dataslate, so any unit that has options up to its eyeballs are going to come out as more expensive compared to a unit of similar basic points but with limited (or cheaper) upgrades available.
I think it would be interesting to build a bunch of 2000 point armies for various factions and compare which has the higher power levels as-built.
Then you can play those same lists using the various attacker/defender narrative scenarios and see if "equal points but uneven power" has a detectable effect….
Bottle wrote: Jervis said on the video yesterday that the PL is based on the median between the cheapest load out and the most expensive load out on a dataslate, so any unit that has options up to its eyeballs are going to come out as more expensive compared to a unit of similar basic points but with limited (or cheaper) upgrades available.
He also said it's a good indicator of how powerful one unit is next to another which is utter tosh. Take a look at Death Company and Khorne Berzerkers for example. They aren't even close on the power scale.
So are there rules for Pinning and Going to Ground in the Advanced Rules? Saw this pic from Warhammer Fest. Kinda odd there are sides for those when I haven't heard anything about it.
Bottle wrote: Jervis said on the video yesterday that the PL is based on the median between the cheapest load out and the most expensive load out on a dataslate, so any unit that has options up to its eyeballs are going to come out as more expensive compared to a unit of similar basic points but with limited (or cheaper) upgrades available.
He also said it's a good indicator of how powerful one unit is next to another which is utter tosh. Take a look at Death Company and Khorne Berzerkers for example. They aren't even close on the power scale.
So are there rules for Pinning and Going to Ground in the Advanced Rules? Saw this pic from Warhammer Fest. Kinda odd there are sides for those when I haven't heard anything about it.
I might have missed it though.
Not that I have noticed. Could be still referencing the 7th ed book. Those look like the green plastic counters that popped up in 5th ed. Going by the mat, perhaps its a demo on making them by hand for souvenir purposes? One tends to find things like that at festivals.
Was just about to ask if there were any leaks for IG points and such then checked the godly first post Rippy has kept up to date. Top notch work fella!
unmercifulconker wrote: Was just about to ask if there were any leaks for IG points and such then checked the godly first post Rippy has kept up to date. Top notch work fella!
Mr_Rose wrote: I think it would be interesting to build a bunch of 2000 point armies for various factions and compare which has the higher power levels as-built.
Then you can play those same lists using the various attacker/defender narrative scenarios and see if "equal points but uneven power" has a detectable effect….
My group has done a little of this. I tend to take fewer upgrades so my PL is "low".
Bottle wrote: Jervis said on the video yesterday that the PL is based on the median between the cheapest load out and the most expensive load out on a dataslate, so any unit that has options up to its eyeballs are going to come out as more expensive compared to a unit of similar basic points but with limited (or cheaper) upgrades available.
He also said it's a good indicator of how powerful one unit is next to another which is utter tosh. Take a look at Death Company and Khorne Berzerkers for example. They aren't even close on the power scale.
It's an average of the min and max upgrades.
Berzerker upgrades:
Chainaxe (all)
Plasma Pistol (up to 2)
Power weapon (champ only)
Death Company upgrades:
Handflamer (all)
Inferno Pistol (all)
Plasma Pistol (all)
ANY cc Power weapon in place of bolt pistol (all)
ANY cc Power weapon in place of chainsword (all)
Thunder Hammer (all)
Jump Packs (all)
Guys am i right in saying that a necron destroyer can come back with full wounds after a successful reanimation roll? You can have 6 destroyers in a unit so they are going be ridiculously hard to wipe out if taken in numbers.
RoboDragon wrote: Guys am i right in saying that a necron destroyer can come back with full wounds after a successful reanimation roll? You can have 6 destroyers in a unit so they are going be ridiculously hard to wipe out if taken in numbers.
It isn't clear. There is an active thread in YMDC right now (Not enough evidence either way IMO to resolve at this time) It has been added to Yakface's FAQ submission list I'm sure.
Dark Imperium novel spoilers and speculation ahoy!
Spoiler:
Probably old news but from reading the book there's at least two more Primaris infantry squads on the way. Aggressors are a heavy variant of the Gravis pattern with shoulder mounted missile launchers and flamer fists. Reivers are a stealth unit in silenced power armour with larger left shoulder pads and deaths head helms armed with heavy bolt pistols and some kind of power blade. There is also mention of Primaris Librarians and Apothecary's although they don't get the detailed descriptions the Aggressors and Reivers have. Unfortunately there is no mention of alternate weapons for Intercessor or Hellblaster squads.
Something else new that gets a very detailed description is the Overlord gunship. Described as similar to the Corvus blackstar but bigger and makes the Thunderhawk look like a toy. It can carry forty Marines and is equipped with some kind of energy shield, anti munitions cannons, desolator lascannons(three rotating barrels) and heavy bolter turrets on the wings, and melta cannons in the nose. Its size(bigger than a T.Hawk) makes me sceptical about a model kit, but it does feature heavily in a chapter of the book and has a really detailed description when a Thunder hawk would probably have worked just as well for the story.
Probably old news but from reading the book there's at least two more Primaris infantry squads on the way. Aggressors are a heavy variant of the Gravis pattern with shoulder mounted missile launchers and flamer fists. Reivers are a stealth unit in silenced power armour with larger left shoulder pads and deaths head helms armed with heavy bolt pistols and some kind of power blade. There is also mention of Primaris Librarians and Apothecary's although they don't get the detailed descriptions the Aggressors and Reivers have. Unfortunately there is no mention of alternate weapons for Intercessor or Hellblaster squads.
Something else new that gets a very detailed description is the Overlord gunship. Described as similar to the Corvus blackstar but bigger and makes the Thunderhawk look like a toy. It can carry forty Marines and is equipped with some kind of energy shield, anti munitions cannons, desolator lascannons(three rotating barrels) and heavy bolter turrets on the wings, and melta cannons in the nose. Its size(bigger than a T.Hawk) makes me sceptical about a model kit, but it does feature heavily in a chapter of the book and has a really detailed description when a Thunder hawk would probably have worked just as well for the story.
Plastic Thunderhawk rumours could have been talking about that monstrosity.
Probably old news but from reading the book there's at least two more Primaris infantry squads on the way. Aggressors are a heavy variant of the Gravis pattern with shoulder mounted missile launchers and flamer fists. Reivers are a stealth unit in silenced power armour with larger left shoulder pads and deaths head helms armed with heavy bolt pistols and some kind of power blade. There is also mention of Primaris Librarians and Apothecary's although they don't get the detailed descriptions the Aggressors and Reivers have. Unfortunately there is no mention of alternate weapons for Intercessor or Hellblaster squads.
Something else new that gets a very detailed description is the Overlord gunship. Described as similar to the Corvus blackstar but bigger and makes the Thunderhawk look like a toy. It can carry forty Marines and is equipped with some kind of energy shield, anti munitions cannons, desolator lascannons(three rotating barrels) and heavy bolter turrets on the wings, and melta cannons in the nose. Its size(bigger than a T.Hawk) makes me sceptical about a model kit, but it does feature heavily in a chapter of the book and has a really detailed description when a Thunder hawk would probably have worked just as well for the story.
Those Aggressors sound like Primaris Terminators, and those Reivers sound absolutely amazing
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: So after decades of rumours and fans wishing for a plastic Thunderhawk kit, GW finally gives us...a plastic Super Space Marine Overlord kit instead.
This would be so typical of Gamesworkshop.
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...it's a duck.
AFAIK "Initially" there are 4 boxes of "troops/infantry/marines" (including the flying ones), 2 vehicles, the Dread, and 2 "character" sets, which I assume will be captains and Lieutenants. As for when I rarely dare to dabble in such things (especially after the timing of the plastic thunderhawk release.... which might still actually not be wrong, just my guess at the timing thanks to the "we've sold our last resin thunderhawk" making me jump to conclusions!). I will say I am "expecting" Death Guard to release after the boxed set and for new marines to be closely behind them..... however I could be wrong of course
So... 1 more Primaris Vehicle and two more infantry kits (I assume Hellblasters and the normal Intercessor are the same box). Probably the new Agressors=Gravis Kit (Primaris terminator-equivalent), and a box for the Scout-kind of meele assasin Primaris mentioned in the novel (The Reivers. With some kind of cloak-armour and skull helmets) .
EDIT: Basically what Goatboybeta writed, but by Hastings. The pieces of the puzzle start to fit!
Novel description of the reivers:
Spoiler:
"The Reiver squad was armed with oversized combat knives glimmering with disruption fields, and heavy bolt pistols. Their helms were death’s heads, and their left pauldrons enlarged to provide better protection in melee. Their power armour was eerily silent, adapted for stealth work. Reivers were an infiltration and close-combat specialisation. "
Probably old news but from reading the book there's at least two more Primaris infantry squads on the way. Aggressors are a heavy variant of the Gravis pattern with shoulder mounted missile launchers and flamer fists. Reivers are a stealth unit in silenced power armour with larger left shoulder pads and deaths head helms armed with heavy bolt pistols and some kind of power blade. There is also mention of Primaris Librarians and Apothecary's although they don't get the detailed descriptions the Aggressors and Reivers have. Unfortunately there is no mention of alternate weapons for Intercessor or Hellblaster squads.
Something else new that gets a very detailed description is the Overlord gunship. Described as similar to the Corvus blackstar but bigger and makes the Thunderhawk look like a toy. It can carry forty Marines and is equipped with some kind of energy shield, anti munitions cannons, desolator lascannons(three rotating barrels) and heavy bolter turrets on the wings, and melta cannons in the nose. Its size(bigger than a T.Hawk) makes me sceptical about a model kit, but it does feature heavily in a chapter of the book and has a really detailed description when a Thunder hawk would probably have worked just as well for the story.
Thank you GoatboyBeta, I will get this added to the OP.
AFAIK "Initially" there are 4 boxes of "troops/infantry/marines" (including the flying ones), 2 vehicles, the Dread, and 2 "character" sets, which I assume will be captains and Lieutenants. As for when I rarely dare to dabble in such things (especially after the timing of the plastic thunderhawk release.... which might still actually not be wrong, just my guess at the timing thanks to the "we've sold our last resin thunderhawk" making me jump to conclusions!). I will say I am "expecting" Death Guard to release after the boxed set and for new marines to be closely behind them..... however I could be wrong of course
So... 1 more Primaris Vehicle and two more infantry kits (I assume Hellblasters and the normal Intercessor are the same box). Probably the new Agressors=Gravis Kit (Primaros terminator-equivalent), and a box for the Scout-kind of meele assasin Primaris mentioned in the novel (The Reivers. With some kind of cloak-armour and skull helmets) .
EDIT: Basically what Goatboybeta writed, but by Hastings. The pieces of the puzzle start to fit!
Novel description of the reivers:
Spoiler:
"The Reiver squad was armed with oversized combat knives glimmering with disruption fields, and heavy bolt pistols. Their helms were death’s heads, and their left pauldrons enlarged to provide better protection in melee. Their power armour was eerily silent, adapted for stealth work. Reivers were an infiltration and close-combat specialisation. "
Some thoughts :
TIL Reiver is an actual word and not a mispelling of Reaver. Although they both sort of mean the same thing. I wonder if they hire one guy to flip through a thesaurus and try to find relevant names for things.
Anyway, I do wonder how the skull helmet will turn out. Will it be like that assassin and the chaplain? Or will they try to put a twist on it? I have a sinking feeling they will look comical; they will have a big pauldron on one side and a skull face. That can go wrong really quickly.
What is a heavy bolt pistol? Is it a pistol that fires heavy bolter caliber bolts? Are we looking at a S5 AP-1 pistol? Its not what the interceptors have; they have assault bolters.
Wow, I dont know if he's worth it anymore. Only a 6" buff? Im not very good at figuring out the math of figures, but still...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is it just my imagination or is it Salamanders have the least amount of space given for a first founding chapter? Only 2 pages.... While Blood Angels have like 10 or 12
nintura wrote: Wow, I dont know if he's worth it anymore. Only a 6" buff? Im not very good at figuring out the math of figures, but still...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is it just my imagination or is it Salamanders have the least amount of space given for a first founding chapter? Only 2 pages.... While Blood Angels have like 10 or 12
Only if 2 Salamander pages is less than the 0 Iron Hands got. Or the 2 pages every other Non Ultramarine/BA/DA/SW 1st founding chapter got.
Also I wouldn't say he's not worth it, just that he is no longer an auto-take (which is a good thing imho)
I understand that I have to get used to not being over the top power like 7th, but he's 156 points which puts him near the top 6 or so in special characters.
nintura wrote: I understand that I have to get used to not being over the top power like 7th, but he's 156 points which puts him near the top 6 or so in special characters.
He also gives really good buffs in his range. You can run multi melta devastators that fire on the move more accurately than most lascannon devs would while stationary, with better chances to wound as well. Plus You can have a nasty set of flamer company veterans/sternguard to deal with infantry/melee units. Not to mention his own excellent CC ability. Used correctly, I'd say he is at least as good as pedro despite being cheaper (though you have to really invest in his accompanying units).
We saw vehicles in the teaser video as well as Poxwalkers that weren't in the starter set.
Did we see any vehicles clearly enough to determine they were actually new, and not existing vehicles? For that matter, were the other poxwalkers clearly poxwalkers and not cultists?
Mr_Rose wrote: I think it would be interesting to build a bunch of 2000 point armies for various factions and compare which has the higher power levels as-built.
Then you can play those same lists using the various attacker/defender narrative scenarios and see if "equal points but uneven power" has a detectable effect….
My group has done a little of this. I tend to take fewer upgrades so my PL is "low".
Bottle wrote: Jervis said on the video yesterday that the PL is based on the median between the cheapest load out and the most expensive load out on a dataslate, so any unit that has options up to its eyeballs are going to come out as more expensive compared to a unit of similar basic points but with limited (or cheaper) upgrades available.
He also said it's a good indicator of how powerful one unit is next to another which is utter tosh. Take a look at Death Company and Khorne Berzerkers for example. They aren't even close on the power scale.
It's an average of the min and max upgrades.
Berzerker upgrades:
Chainaxe (all)
Plasma Pistol (up to 2)
Power weapon (champ only)
Death Company upgrades:
Handflamer (all)
Inferno Pistol (all)
Plasma Pistol (all)
ANY cc Power weapon in place of bolt pistol (all)
ANY cc Power weapon in place of chainsword (all)
Thunder Hammer (all)
Jump Packs (all)
Yeah man, I get how it works and what it represents. My point was a person that wrote the rules should understand that it isn't always a good indicator of the power level for a unit as the Berzerkers totally trash the Death Company. Sure all tooled up Death Company take it because they can all have Power Fists and Inferno Pistols. The problem is it isn't a simple comparison of unit vs. unit which makes Power Level misleading and frankly kinda worthless.
CthululsSpy wrote:Not that I have noticed. Could be still referencing the 7th ed book
It's not. These were created strictly for 8th Edition and there was no "Advance" in 7th that I'm aware of.
If you go to the link for the leaks and click on the rule book, there's something odd. If you go to the second page on the right side, there's a picture of a game between what looks like Marines and Nids? If you look at the bottom right of that picture there's a model in Imperial Fist color schemes that looks out of place. Can anyone identify the model, it might be one we haven't seen
Could'a sworn these were Mark Gibbon's concepts from the 4th Ed Marine Codex.
Either way, when they started talking about the Primaris Marines these things instantly came to mind. I would not be opposed to them seeing the light of day, even if they are in the wrong scale for 40k.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: So after decades of rumours and fans wishing for a plastic Thunderhawk kit, GW finally gives us...a plastic Super Space Marine Overlord kit instead.
This would be so typical of Gamesworkshop.
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...it's a duck.
nintura wrote: I understand that I have to get used to not being over the top power like 7th, but he's 156 points which puts him near the top 6 or so in special characters.
If you look at him compared to a Captain, he has the same statline, if you equipped the captain similarly (which you cannot, Heavy flamer(not an option), Relic Blade, Storm shield) he would be 127 with a worse save at 3+. The closest you can get (combi-flamer) would put you at 121. So you are paying 33 points for his aura, a better flamer and a 2+ save. If you gave the captain a 2+ option, he would be over 170 points (with less movement, but more wounds), the relic blade is a little better than Vulkans spear.
So he seems to be costed fairly. I mean a Sterngaurd with combi-meltas and multi-meltas and vulkan will eat vehicles (or 4 multimelta devs). So say against a knight
you are looking at doing 13 wounds.
nintura wrote: Anyone catch the Dark Angels vs the 1kSons yesterday? How did it go? How do the Sons look?
Was a Narrative Play mission using Power Levels. Dark Angels got wrecked; Magnus' Smite is incredibly powerful. Heldrakes are excellent harassment units. Thousand Sons with flamers erase things.
nintura wrote: Anyone catch the Dark Angels vs the 1kSons yesterday? How did it go? How do the Sons look?
Was a Narrative Play mission using Power Levels. Dark Angels got wrecked; Magnus' Smite is incredibly powerful. Heldrakes are excellent harassment units. Thousand Sons with flamers erase things.
They actually let Magnus on the field? What did the DA get in return?
nintura wrote: Anyone catch the Dark Angels vs the 1kSons yesterday? How did it go? How do the Sons look?
IRRC the TS won convincingly, but Magnus had only 1 wound left . The DA player had his DW Knights wiped out by Magnus psy very early. I think he didn't had a Watcher in the Dark, would have saved their ass. Heldrake was very good, zipping around and tying up units.
Well, fooey on that. I'll just wait for someone to do a report on Youtube. There's already a few 8th ed reports up, though none that I could see on TSons.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Well, fooey on that. I'll just wait for someone to do a report on Youtube. There's already a few 8th ed reports up, though none that I could see on TSons.
Honestly the GW one wasn't very good if you wanted to see Thousand Sons do stuff cause Magnus was such a huge percentage of the list.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Well, fooey on that. I'll just wait for someone to do a report on Youtube. There's already a few 8th ed reports up, though none that I could see on TSons.
Honestly the GW one wasn't very good if you wanted to see Thousand Sons do stuff cause Magnus was such a huge percentage of the list.
Well, it was a narrative game (with rolled reserves) and the DA player was letting the TS dictate the game. So certainly not a great barometer.
But my new favorite idea...
Rubrics with flamers in a rhino. Move rhino, disembark, run if you need to, and cast the move spell. That puts the Rubrics 23-28" across the table to touch something 31-36" in.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Well, fooey on that. I'll just wait for someone to do a report on Youtube. There's already a few 8th ed reports up, though none that I could see on TSons.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Well, fooey on that. I'll just wait for someone to do a report on Youtube. There's already a few 8th ed reports up, though none that I could see on TSons.
I am still waiting for one with orks.
Miniwargame just released one with orks vs marines, so you can have a look at that if you want.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Well, fooey on that. I'll just wait for someone to do a report on Youtube. There's already a few 8th ed reports up, though none that I could see on TSons.
I am still waiting for one with orks.
Frontline Gaming did one yesterday on Twitch. I think they put them on Youtube.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Well, fooey on that. I'll just wait for someone to do a report on Youtube. There's already a few 8th ed reports up, though none that I could see on TSons.
I am still waiting for one with orks.
Frontline Gaming did one yesterday on Twitch. I think they put them on Youtube.
Don't know if it's on youtube yet, but you can get list info here.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Well, fooey on that. I'll just wait for someone to do a report on Youtube. There's already a few 8th ed reports up, though none that I could see on TSons.
I am still waiting for one with orks.
Frontline Gaming did one yesterday on Twitch. I think they put them on Youtube.
Yeah, they did a Orks vs Dark Eldar one yesterday.
Daedalus81 wrote: Well, it was a narrative game (with rolled reserves) and the DA player was letting the TS dictate the game. So certainly not a great barometer.
But my new favorite idea...
Rubrics with flamers in a rhino. Move rhino, disembark, run if you need to, and cast the move spell. That puts the Rubrics 23-28" across the table to touch something 31-36" in.
Remember: It's DISEMBARK, then move Rhino. No disembarking after moving the transport.
Daedalus81 wrote: Well, it was a narrative game (with rolled reserves) and the DA player was letting the TS dictate the game. So certainly not a great barometer.
But my new favorite idea...
Rubrics with flamers in a rhino. Move rhino, disembark, run if you need to, and cast the move spell. That puts the Rubrics 23-28" across the table to touch something 31-36" in.
Remember: It's DISEMBARK, then move Rhino. No disembarking after moving the transport.
Oh dangit. Stupid brain. Second turn anyway will get you pretty far.
I love Jes' design, but this looks ugly. I know it's a sketch, so hopefully if it does happen it looks better. I just can't imagine shoulder mounted rockets looking good tho.
After starting to read dark imperium a lot of my fluff concerns were covered relatively quickly.
Spoiler:
It has been over 100 years since the events of the gathering storm, and we see how Robute has forced the imperium to change. While not at the pace he would like he has to deal with the reality of the realm he occupies now. In addition they have next to no contact with the far side of the rift, so its still full on grimdark on that side. It will be interesting to see what further chapters bring and I really enjoy the differences in primaris marine characters purely based on the chapters they are from. Provides for some fun interactions and reminds me of what I love about playing Deathwatch fluff wise. We also learn that some of the primaris marines date from the time when guilimman still walked amongst the living and have been in intermittent stasis they are able to talk of the imperium of man when the primarchs were still amongst the living and not among-st the lost, of the glories of the past that they were alive to experience. I am super excited to keep reading.
I think that it is super cool that having mixed chapter livery for primaris marines is perfectly reasonable. If I want a squad with a Space Wolf, an Imperial Fist, and an Dark Angel painted in that livery it would fit the fluff. That seems super cool and fun to me as a hobbyist and fluff enthusiast. They have all of the quirks of their gene seed without the history of conflict and old grudges. For those wondering about how the repulsor hovers? It does use grav technology as a poor enthusiastic Iron Warrior found out the fun way.
Wow they finally ticked the clock over to M42. I thought we were going to sit with every event simultaneously happening on the last day of 40,999 forever like some manic episode of 24.
xttz wrote: Wow they finally ticked the clock over to M42. I thought we were going to sit with every event simultaneously happening on the last day of 40,999 forever like some manic episode of 24.
Covered in the book as well.
Because of the bastardization of the emperors imperial calendar as well as the effects of the warp on time. It could be anywhere between M41 and M42. Covers things nicely how sometimes the dates dont line up, or everything seems to be happening at the same time.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Well, fooey on that. I'll just wait for someone to do a report on Youtube. There's already a few 8th ed reports up, though none that I could see on TSons.
I am still waiting for one with orks.
Frontline Gaming did one yesterday on Twitch. I think they put them on Youtube.
Don't know if it's on youtube yet, but you can get list info here.
Where's my daily dose of Duncan? Hopefully working on guides for the starter contents!
I'm definitely excited to see all the multi part kits, though i'm a bit sad it looks like we won't be getting Primaris foot troops with meltas/flamers/grav guns....I could be wrong though..just going off the rumors. It would be cool if the foetid bloat drone had its own customizable kit, with cool bits...I need more cool little nurgle bits.
Thargrim wrote: Where's my daily dose of Duncan? Hopefully working on guides for the starter contents!
I'm definitely excited to see all the multi part kits, though i'm a bit sad it looks like we won't be getting Primaris foot troops with meltas/flamers/grav guns....I could be wrong though..just going off the rumors. It would be cool if the foetid bloat drone had its own customizable kit, with cool bits...I need more cool little nurgle bits.
Yeah, where is Duncan? I haven't seen him in my feed for a while.
I was expecting something from Dark Millenium by now.
Thargrim wrote: Where's my daily dose of Duncan? Hopefully working on guides for the starter contents!
I'm definitely excited to see all the multi part kits, though i'm a bit sad it looks like we won't be getting Primaris foot troops with meltas/flamers/grav guns....I could be wrong though..just going off the rumors. It would be cool if the foetid bloat drone had its own customizable kit, with cool bits...I need more cool little nurgle bits.
Yeah, where is Duncan? I haven't seen him in my feed for a while.
I was expecting something from Dark Millenium by now.
I don't believe Duncan has ever done a tutorial on a model before its been released.
I'm sure they're releasing painting tutorials for not only the DG start of the Box, but the Primaris, as well as the new Primaris Dread, Vehicles, Mortarion, etc.
Same as all major releases, we're just getting a lot at once.
1 Power = 20 points seems a very good approximation. I did a 100 Power Space Wolves army and then calculated the points. It came to 1964 points but I could have included a few more plasma pistols and hunter killer missiles upgrades if I would have the models.
I think it works pretty well in that direction because people tend to take reasonable upgrades, but encourages piling on the upgrades, at which point things get pretty screwy-- I played around with the numbers and IIRC kitted out tactical marines were closer to 30 pts:1 power
And, in Oni's example, while it kinda' looks fine on paper, expanding it to what we're used to, what if the admech player showed up with another 200 points over the 2k space wolf list, would that still feel as okay?
spiralingcadaver wrote: I think it works pretty well in that direction because people tend to take reasonable upgrades, but encourages piling on the upgrades, at which point things get pretty screwy-- I played around with the numbers and IIRC kitted out tactical marines were closer to 30 pts:1 power
And, in Oni's example, while it kinda' looks fine on paper, expanding it to what we're used to, what if the admech player showed up with another 200 points over the 2k space wolf list, would that still feel as okay?
Meh, the type of game that you use powerlevels for doesn't really have to worry about a 10% swing one way or another and besides, it's not like bring 200 points of stuff always gives you 200 points of effectiveness.
spiralingcadaver wrote: I think it works pretty well in that direction because people tend to take reasonable upgrades, but encourages piling on the upgrades, at which point things get pretty screwy-- I played around with the numbers and IIRC kitted out tactical marines were closer to 30 pts:1 power
And, in Oni's example, while it kinda' looks fine on paper, expanding it to what we're used to, what if the admech player showed up with another 200 points over the 2k space wolf list, would that still feel as okay?
Yeah I'm not sure why people are seemingly okay with unequal power levels yet were not okay with unequal points. At the end of the day it feels like the point system was tacked up and Jervis & Friends never wanted it. If so they could have made a more concise 1 power level = 20 points formula with upgrades also costing power level. Instead we get indexs which are incredibly frustrating to read, a summoning system that doesn't even allow for point values and power levels which seem fine in friendly games but will still cause people feeling like the point/power limit was unbalanced.
Granularity does have a benefit in miniature games.
The indexes aren't bad at all. I find them fairly intuitive. Having upgrades cost power level would have required current power level values to be multiplied by at least 10 to allow for the required granularity, which practically gets us back to a points system anyway, so I'm not sure what you mean.
As for Summoning, it costs way too much to be useful, so weather or not it allows for point values is fairly irrelevant (it's not like you don't have to pay the points).
skarsol wrote: The indexes aren't bad at all. I find them fairly intuitive. Having upgrades cost power level would have required current power level values to be multiplied by at least 10 to allow for the required granularity, which practically gets us back to a points system anyway, so I'm not sure what you mean.
As for Summoning, it costs way too much to be useful, so weather or not it allows for point values is fairly irrelevant (it's not like you don't have to pay the points).
How in the world do you find it intuitive to have to flip to random sections in the book and then to the very back just to find point costs for units + weapons? The fact that people are creating their own indexes proves that is it NOT easy to use. They should have done Power level + point cost all in the same unit sheet (but again GW seems to not like the idea of points).
How in the world do you find it intuitive to have to flip to random sections in the book and then to the very back just to find point costs for units + weapons? The fact that people are creating their own indexes proves that is it NOT easy to use. They should have done Power level + point cost all in the same unit sheet (but again GW seems to not like the idea of points).
Its so they can print updated points lists in the future without having to print the entire book.
skarsol wrote: The indexes aren't bad at all. I find them fairly intuitive. Having upgrades cost power level would have required current power level values to be multiplied by at least 10 to allow for the required granularity, which practically gets us back to a points system anyway, so I'm not sure what you mean.
As for Summoning, it costs way too much to be useful, so weather or not it allows for point values is fairly irrelevant (it's not like you don't have to pay the points).
How in the world do you find it intuitive to have to flip to random sections in the book and then to the very back just to find point costs for units + weapons? The fact that people are creating their own indexes proves that is it NOT easy to use. They should have done Power level + point cost all in the same unit sheet (but again GW seems to not like the idea of points).
Also, when you include points on each datasheet, you can potenetially limit the amount of equipment a unit/character/etc can take due to simple lack of space. At least thats another point Ive read in support of putting points at the back. However, I'll take a quicker response to balancing via points at the back over convience of flipping any day as rebalancing is important to this game's vitality in the long run.
Within weeks there'll be web/app/program army builders galore anyway, it's not like paper and pen is the primary way to build lists anymore. At that point the advantages of having the points split far outweighs the negatives.
ERJAK wrote: Meh, the type of game that you use powerlevels for doesn't really have to worry about a 10% swing one way or another and besides, it's not like bring 200 points of stuff always gives you 200 points of effectiveness.
1- let's go with a really, really basic hypothetical, involving your basic, uncreative spamming. Guy A happens to make a really average list, an equivalent of 20:1, so has basically a 2k points list. Guy B likes his kitted out tac squads, takes a bunch, ends up with a ratio of closer to 30:1, for a list of a bit under 3k points. That's okay?
2- is
not like bring 200 points of stuff always gives you 200 points of effectiveness
really the way you want to think of the game? Are we, before the edition's even been officially launched, assuming that the points values are simultaneously balanced enough to not be concerned and that they're completely irrelevant/we shouldn't expect to get something's game presence to be at least approximately equivalent to its cost?
People, stop comparing Power Level with Points. If you are comparing that, is clear that Power Level aren't for you, and thats totally fine.
If you can't understand why someone could use Power Level instead of points, again, is totally fine. Nobody is forcing anyone to use something they don't want.
Cephalobeard wrote: I'm sure they're releasing painting tutorials for not only the DG start of the Box, but the Primaris, as well as the new Primaris Dread, Vehicles, Mortarion, etc.
Same as all major releases, we're just getting a lot at once.
That said, we some times do not get a *full* painting tutorial on a new release. Out of the Gathering Storm big boxes, only four of the models - Saint Celestine, Belisarius Cawl, Inquisitor Grayfax and The Yncarne, Avatar of Ynnead - got a full painting tutorial from base coat to finished model. Yvraine, The Visarch, Roboute Guilliman, Cypher, and Grand Master Voldus only got painting tutorials that only cover certain areas of the model. I'm not sure if there were competing releases.
ERJAK wrote: Meh, the type of game that you use powerlevels for doesn't really have to worry about a 10% swing one way or another and besides, it's not like bring 200 points of stuff always gives you 200 points of effectiveness.
1- let's go with a really, really basic hypothetical, involving your basic, uncreative spamming. Guy A happens to make a really average list, an equivalent of 20:1, so has basically a 2k points list. Guy B likes his kitted out tac squads, takes a bunch, ends up with a ratio of closer to 30:1, for a list of a bit under 3k points. That's okay?
2- is
not like bring 200 points of stuff always gives you 200 points of effectiveness
really the way you want to think of the game? Are we, before the edition's even been officially launched, assuming that the points values are simultaneously balanced enough to not be concerned and that they're completely irrelevant/we shouldn't expect to get something's game presence to be at least approximately equivalent to its cost?
Oh look, straw manning! And no that first example doesn't matter because in a game like that those two guys would go 'huh, I think this is too strong, for the next game I'll use X instead of Y. Because the types of games and gamers that use powerlevels care more about having a good game then winning.
As for points, points don't balance the game. They're resources to be spent. They create constraints the player must work within. Then the player does their level best to get around those constraints and build his list in such a way that his efficiency is greater than the player mean before he even hits the table. A good point system will keep the variance low enough that he doesn't just auto win but someone who spends a significant amount of time list building will always have an advantage over someone who just throws models at the table. That's just the way the game works.
Don't make points something mythical, they're just a system to be bent by skilled players, like everything else.
ERJAK wrote: Meh, the type of game that you use powerlevels for doesn't really have to worry about a 10% swing one way or another and besides, it's not like bring 200 points of stuff always gives you 200 points of effectiveness.
1- let's go with a really, really basic hypothetical, involving your basic, uncreative spamming. Guy A happens to make a really average list, an equivalent of 20:1, so has basically a 2k points list. Guy B likes his kitted out tac squads, takes a bunch, ends up with a ratio of closer to 30:1, for a list of a bit under 3k points. That's okay?
If A knows that B likes to optimize like that then they should be playing matched play.
If B is a stranger to A then they should be playing matched play.
Just did a once over between the FW table of contents and the leaked points table and it looks like the Orks might be missing a few things.
So far..
Battlefortress
Gun Wagon
Looted Wagon
and Skullhamma.. though it's not really an official model..
Either way, I have a Battlefortress and several variations of looted wagons and/or gunwagons. They yanked that option directly away from us.. So that's 2 looted Leman Russ, my Armorcast/Epicast vehicles (basically gunwagons or looted wagons with boomguns), my looted wagon with skorcha from a 2nd ed rhino, and probably a few more that I'm forgetting about. There is NOTHING to replace them.. They left in buggies, trakks, trucks, and battlewagons.. but that's it.. and the kill tank and big tracks from FW are still in.. which I have as well.. but there's no medium to heavy option to cover all of that intermediary..
MLaw wrote: Just did a once over between the FW table of contents and the leaked points table and it looks like the Orks might be missing a few things.
So far..
Battlefortress
Gun Wagon
Looted Wagon
and Skullhamma.. though it's not really an official model..
Either way, I have a Battlefortress and several variations of looted wagons and/or gunwagons. They yanked that option directly away from us.. So that's 2 looted Leman Russ, my Armorcast/Epicast vehicles (basically gunwagons or looted wagons with boomguns), my looted wagon with skorcha from a 2nd ed rhino, and probably a few more that I'm forgetting about. There is NOTHING to replace them.. They left in buggies, trakks, trucks, and battlewagons.. but that's it.. and the kill tank and big tracks from FW are still in.. which I have as well.. but there's no medium to heavy option to cover all of that intermediary..
It's quite simple really they don't want stats on "looted wagons" because people including my self were using models from other systems and gluing warhammer bits to them and calling them "looted wagons" it's purely a sales thing.
How ever that said 90pts boom guns were great in 5th providing the grots did not press that big red button, I had some hilarious accidents through it.
Really removing looted wagons doesn't stop people proxy modeling vehicles, it didn't have to be a looted wagon to use a random tank as a chimera or russ. I have 4 looted wagons 1 basilisk 2 chimera 1 rhino gw wouldn't have those sales if not for the creative freedom in modeling orks bring to the table. It's ridiculous. I implore everyone to comment on there Facebook page about looted wagons, and remind gw of those extra model sales and all the existing hard work and amazing conversions of everything from carnifex to baneblades that people 'loot' for their orks.
They said the indices would be only for their current model range.
Expect them to come back with the codex drop.
Please take further discussion of "where's the looted wagons" to a general thread
As for points, points don't balance the game. They're resources to be spent. They create constraints the player must work within. Then the player does their level best to get around those constraints and build his list in such a way that his efficiency is greater than the player mean before he even hits the table. A good point system will keep the variance low enough that he doesn't just auto win but someone who spends a significant amount of time list building will always have an advantage over someone who just throws models at the table. That's just the way the game works.
Don't make points something mythical, they're just a system to be bent by skilled players, like everything else.
I enjoyed this statement so much, I came out of lurker mode and registered with the forum! I think I might get this tatooed on my forehead!
To get this post on-topic: They took away my Chaos Marines' ability to come equipped with bolters and chainswords Unlike many people out there, I always loved the CSM as a troops choice because of their versatility (especially when ObSec turned up!). Now, I have to choose how to use them and other units fill the respective roles more effectively (Noise Marines would be the new go-to choice for me, I guess). Chaos Lords have also lost a bit of flavour now that they no longer get a bonus from their Mark of Chaos.
So I'm already eager for the new codices-that-aren't-codices to drop, even though the index books haven't even been officially released yet
So I noticed Dreadnoughts no longer have an option to deploy via Drop Pod in Index Imperium 1, and Kairos is the only Tzeentch Daemon without the Ephemeral Form rule.
The former feths my Dark Angels unless I get the Forge World Index, the latter is just weird.
Nostromodamus wrote: So I noticed Dreadnoughts no longer have an option to deploy via Drop Pod in Index Imperium 1, and Kairos is the only Tzeentch Daemon without the Ephemeral Form rule.
The former feths my Dark Angels unless I get the Forge World Index, the latter is just weird.
I wouldn't worry too much about the former, the Dreadnought Drop Pod is unlikely to be cheap enough to use in an actual game.
On Facebook a user asked if 40k would get a army builder like the AoS one on the community site, it was posted earlier today and answered with a 'yes' but 'a few months off'.
Zognob Gorgoff wrote: On Facebook a user asked if 40k would get a army builder like the AoS one on the community site, it was posted earlier today and answered with a 'yes' but 'a few months off'.
Ugh, the points cost layout is borderline unusable if reading from an ebook, and still takes a lot longer than before using a book you can flick between pages on freely.
Zognob Gorgoff wrote: On Facebook a user asked if 40k would get a army builder like the AoS one on the community site, it was posted earlier today and answered with a 'yes' but 'a few months off'.
If they expect us to rebuy the index books on the app to get the datasheets in the app, I'm going to riot. Gut says they won't, though. I think the index books are just a nice little earner for the first couple of months, vs. just releasing PDFs like they did for AOS. Alternatively, subscription fee for the app or something. We'll see.
The Age of Sigmar army builder on the community site has all the points for free.
However it lacks any rules.
It's a decent balance really if 40k continues like that - as long as the App is cross-compatible with the digital releases for the mainrules and indices.
Zognob Gorgoff wrote: Really removing looted wagons doesn't stop people proxy modeling vehicles, it didn't have to be a looted wagon to use a random tank as a chimera or russ. I have 4 looted wagons 1 basilisk 2 chimera 1 rhino gw wouldn't have those sales if not for the creative freedom in modeling orks bring to the table. It's ridiculous. I implore everyone to comment on there Facebook page about looted wagons, and remind gw of those extra model sales and all the existing hard work and amazing conversions of everything from carnifex to baneblades that people 'loot' for their orks.
You have a point but having no model for the looted wagon give people to much freedom to do what ever they want with what ever plastic they want with no restrictions what so ever, I'm on your side this is just my opinion as to why they would not include it in the codex.
Maybe start a specific thread where we can get other players to gather and spam the Facebook page with looted wagon pleads.
MLaw wrote: Just did a once over between the FW table of contents and the leaked points table and it looks like the Orks might be missing a few things.
So far..
Battlefortress
Gun Wagon
Looted Wagon
and Skullhamma.. though it's not really an official model..
Either way, I have a Battlefortress and several variations of looted wagons and/or gunwagons. They yanked that option directly away from us.. So that's 2 looted Leman Russ, my Armorcast/Epicast vehicles (basically gunwagons or looted wagons with boomguns), my looted wagon with skorcha from a 2nd ed rhino, and probably a few more that I'm forgetting about. There is NOTHING to replace them.. They left in buggies, trakks, trucks, and battlewagons.. but that's it.. and the kill tank and big tracks from FW are still in.. which I have as well.. but there's no medium to heavy option to cover all of that intermediary..
It's quite simple really they don't want stats on "looted wagons" because people including my self were using models from other systems and gluing warhammer bits to them and calling them "looted wagons" it's purely a sales thing.
How ever that said 90pts boom guns were great in 5th providing the grots did not press that big red button, I had some hilarious accidents through it.
That's not a "sales" thing tho its a drinking the kool-aid thing. If GW doesn't sell a model and you buy GW Bits to built your own then they ARE making more money than they would otherwise (IE zero).
MLaw wrote: Just did a once over between the FW table of contents and the leaked points table and it looks like the Orks might be missing a few things. So far.. Battlefortress Gun Wagon Looted Wagon
and Skullhamma.. though it's not really an official model..
Either way, I have a Battlefortress and several variations of looted wagons and/or gunwagons. They yanked that option directly away from us.. So that's 2 looted Leman Russ, my Armorcast/Epicast vehicles (basically gunwagons or looted wagons with boomguns), my looted wagon with skorcha from a 2nd ed rhino, and probably a few more that I'm forgetting about. There is NOTHING to replace them.. They left in buggies, trakks, trucks, and battlewagons.. but that's it.. and the kill tank and big tracks from FW are still in.. which I have as well.. but there's no medium to heavy option to cover all of that intermediary..
did you see the Mekboy Junka? That would be a good replacement for the looted wagon if GW doesn't bring it back in the ork codex (which I doubt they will)
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Those poor gents are acting like their families are being held hostage. Have we seen the cream Death Guard scheme on the new miniatures yet?
I want to see the cream colored Death Guard as that's the scheme I want to use. Last time I tried to do white armored 40k Death Guard it didn't end well so new ideas are always helpful!
Tyran wrote: You can always make your own army builder, there are a few programs for that. I already made my own Tyranid army builder in Battlescribe.
We shouldn't have to. Other miniature games provide such tools for players free of charge. We the players simply give GW a pass on making their game easier to play.
Tyran wrote: You can always make your own army builder, there are a few programs for that. I already made my own Tyranid army builder in Battlescribe.
We shouldn't have to. Other miniature games provide such tools for players free of charge. We the players simply give GW a pass on making their game easier to play.
Alpharius wrote: Friendly reminder - again - that this thread is about "40k New Edition Summary".
Please think about whether or not what you're about to post actually is on topic here, and if it isn't, post it somewhere else.
Thanks!
Just for clarity, is that re - paint scheme, army builder, or ork vehicles that don't seem to be in the new edition? Because out of the 3 of those things, 2 of them do seem to be off topic to me but the absence of units in 8th edition seems to be on-topic in my mind..
Jes Bickham tells us all about a very special game of the new Warhammer 40,000 being played this Friday on Warhammer Live…
This Friday evening’s First Blood game is going to be a very special affair, as it sees new Warhammer 40,000 architect Robin Cruddace bring his beautifully painted Howling Griffons Space Marines to battle against my own Genestealer Cults army. But what is it precisely about this particular match-up that makes it very special, we hear you ask?
Well, it’s because we’re aiming to recreate Paul Dainton’s astonishing art depicting these two factions in battle, in order to answer once and for all what’s happening in the picture: are the Howling Griffons winning… or losing? The victor will get to establish Warhammer 40,000 history, and what’s more, Warhammer World have also very kindly donated a framed print of Paul’s art for the winner to take home! Who’s going to come out on top? There’s everything to play for, and you can be sure I will be using every sneaky Genestealer Cults trick up my sleeve to smite the lapdogs of the fake Emperor… and I have a space on my hobby room wall for that art!
