For me, the problem is I don't exactly know what's in the add-ons. They have traps, but they're not sure what they will eventually look like. Same with dungeon furniture. Same with...most of the things. I haven't seen what the rank and file minis from the add-ons will look like apart from one or two models. The rest are still concept art. Is there an update that I'm not seeing? Or pix of the actual models that I've missed?
Any help would be appreciated. I haven't gotten anything from Mantic in the past so I have no frame of reference.
Fugazi wrote: For me, the problem is I don't exactly know what's in the add-ons. They have traps, but they're not sure what they will eventually look like. Same with dungeon furniture. Same with...most of the things. I haven't seen what the rank and file minis from the add-ons will look like apart from one or two models. The rest are still concept art. Is there an update that I'm not seeing? Or pix of the actual models that I've missed?
Any help would be appreciated. I haven't gotten anything from Mantic in the past so I have no frame of reference.
Hi Fugazi, if you check the kickstarter page it shows images of most things, the rest are basically future promises without sculpts at the time.
I think its pretty much a given what the adventurers and most of the monster look like, though I do hope that there is variety with the monsters, four zombie trolls are ok, four identical looking zombie trolls less so. As for the furniture, it looked a bit basic to me, overly 'crisp' cheap digital sculpts, I would prefer doors that a rougher and have more detail.
As for the traps, we have very little to go on other than the hint they will not in fact all look the same. As these are resin some variety is to be expected
Thanks Orlanth. Yeah, I guess my hesitation is that the add-on/expansion Orcs and Abyssals don't have sculpts. And the sculpts and even the composition of the traps and dungeon furniture aren't set either. So they've opened the pledge manager to add more things...which is cool, but then the things that one would be adding on don't have sculpts. I'm hesitating because the add-ons don't blow me away and the concept art looks pretty static.
I take it the doors don't open, right? And the traps will all be the same type (like, there won't be 3 pit traps, 3 spike traps, etc.)?
They should have later pledge manager waves, right? I am waiting for the day when they open the PM with images of every sculpt and some production minis.
If that doesn't happen, I guess I'm out a dollar. The thing about Mantic Kickstarters is that they discourage retail sales; if I don't buy their products through the PM, I probably never will.
Fugazi wrote: Thanks Orlanth. Yeah, I guess my hesitation is that the add-on/expansion Orcs and Abyssals don't have sculpts.
They are rebased version of upcoming army miniatures I think. There will be variety.
Yes you don't see them yet, but the sculpts we have seen so far are ok. Mantic have come a long way from their debut of fugly elves.
Buy unseen now, or buy at a far higher price later, or not at all. Your call.
And the sculpts and even the composition of the traps and dungeon furniture aren't set either. So they've opened the pledge manager to add more things...which is cool, but then the things that one would be adding on don't have sculpts. I'm hesitating because the add-ons don't blow me away and the concept art looks pretty static.
The furniture is bland IMHO, I wouldn't buy any except what comes in other sets. You get 1x furniture in the core set, 1x with the dragon, both worth taking. A further 1x if you take Black Fortress. Black Fortress comes with its own scenarios which are in the adventurers companion, so if you don't buy it you will have number of scenarios you cant play properly. The other floorplan expansion Halls of Dorgarth doesnt come with scenarios and doubles up on yet more furniture, I didnt go for that.
I take it the doors don't open, right? And the traps will all be the same type (like, there won't be 3 pit traps, 3 spike traps, etc.)?
No the doors don't open, but you do get a variety.
The traps are resin and likely will have much better detail, only one trap was shown x8, variety was promised. The traps are one of the sets I actually recommend unseen. I also recommend the resin counters, bones piles are an important part of the game (the Necro raises undead from bones piles tokens), so having sculpted ones adds flavour. Also the red clear resin skulls for hit point tokens sounds fun.
They should have later pledge manager waves, right? I am waiting for the day when they open the PM with images of every sculpt and some production minis.
I think its worth the shot, we are seeing some production minis already, if nothing else the extra $99 for a basic set in is probably worth it.
Put it this way, do you need the $99 more than the possibility you kick yourself when you cant afford in later.
If this game will be bygones to you, you can walk away, if you think you will likely regret not buying if its cool I would buy in if I were you.
If you don't like it I think you will be able to find a buyer for your game if you leave in NIB, actually you will likely make a profit.
Is that dragon with $15 to you? You can buy that separate if you like.
If that doesn't happen, I guess I'm out a dollar. The thing about Mantic Kickstarters is that they discourage retail sales; if I don't buy their products through the PM, I probably never will.
Isn't that the truth. when I wrote my late email when I missed the KS I basically said either I am in at KS prices or I never will be.
Hey here's a dumb question... Mantic reopened the pledge manager because Reasons, but if I submitted my pledge successfully back in January, I don't need to do anything else. Right?
GrimDork wrote: Hey here's a dumb question... Mantic reopened the pledge manager because Reasons, but if I submitted my pledge successfully back in January, I don't need to do anything else. Right?
They sent me this follow-up email the day after I got the final notification:
Hi!
We've realised that the Dungeon Saga Pledge Manager message sent earlier may have been misleading.
If you have successfully placed an order you can safely ignore the reminder email.
Please note that the Pledge Manager acts like a traditional webstore. You cannot change your pledge after you submit it, so please choose carefully. If you place a second or third order and you will be charged in addition to the original pledge you’ve made.
Huh. Its funny because I read that same second mail. For some reason reading it in my inbox it didn't make the sense it did when I read it this second time. Seems like I should be fine then, thanks
They should have later pledge manager waves, right? I am waiting for the day when they open the PM with images of every sculpt and some production minis.
I message them about waves they plan on ding it in one whole wave, im hoping this is going to be as fun as heroquest and plan on using the old heroquest books with it
While they might do it as one wave, I'm sure they'll reopen the PM, or at the very least allow people to throw money at them a bit later. This is Mantic, after all...
Half following rumours come straight from Ronnie Renton the same guy who did the 'Dungeon Saga comes in books' video. He is Mantics MD.
Half comes from one of Dungeon Sagas developers (name not asked, sorry) who showed me the miniatures samples, allowed me to inspect them and answered my specific questions.
1. The pledge manager is apparently STILL LIVE, that news came straight from the top. (Presumably you need to access it directly from the original hotlinks, though I haven't tried this yet)
2. There are five door models.
Each pack of doors contains two each of the following.
Large wooden double door, four smaller 'doors', some iron bound, some portcullis/grills. I didn't see them all.
The doors are very cheap sculpt, apply texture paint if you want them to appear anything other than 'toy' quality. They are functional as game pawns but have seen better.
The doors do not have extensive masonry around them unliike what is shown here:
You get the frame, not the wall. The finished large door looked nothing like that, there were vertical wood strips. It looked very 'IKEA' frankly. There were also large sprue connection circles on the frame (which you can file off or cover with texture paint common with individual injection molded parts. The door plastic is a hard 'vomit brown' toy quality plastic, not the same as the miniatures, much more solid.
[Edit - The double door with NOT fit the dragon, it was significantly taller and will presumably fit the trolls from what I have seen of them).
3. The production miniatures are medium-hard plastic resin and take paint well and have reasonable detail.
Because its a boardgame all miniatures except the dragon are in one piece, for the ready to play effect.
I didn't look at the furniture, just some sample undead miniatures (production) and some master sculpts for the characters, which were not exceptional, but by no means poor quality, there is enough detail to work with for a decent paint job. IMHO this is often better for those with average paint skills. The lack of fine detail means there is no fine detail to fail to paint as well as others can, so I for one am not regretting the level of quality. the characters I saw were ok guys, I dont think you will be disappointed, unless you paint to Golden Demon level and expect to pull it off your skillz with Dungeon Saga, which you might be advised to buy the resin miniatures on offer.
Each type of monster unless specified otherwise has ONE pose, so the zombie troll for example gives you three identical miniatures holding up a piece of masonry. This will suck to a degree, but the plastic can be heated in warm water and reposed, and most miniatures can be customised via the Mantic range.
The productions quality as I have seen is not a patch on Heroquest 25th, but is superior to Descent. The former is a work of art, the latter and this product as boardgames first and miniatures games second.
4. The dragon will not fit in the 'books', yes I specifically asked. The wings can be removed but it wont fit in even then. Mantic gave a 'nice' excuse saying you put the dragon on the mantlepiece because its a nice model and everything else in the two books. I will let him get away with that comment with as smile but honestly there are IMHO a glut of decent dragon minis on the market and this is by no means the best to serve as a display piece.
Still the dragon does have size and low cost (at backer prices) going for it.
5. I also asked about the board sections. They are 3mm thick, Mantic did market research and asked customers of other dungeon games for what they considered 'high quality', and came to the conclusion that the cut off between high quality and low quality yielded best results at 3mm. Space Hulk tiles are thicker, but presumably much more expensive. Apparently they went to the same card printer as FF games as customers were vocally satisfied with Descent 2nd Ed with regards to board quality.
This info is interesting as much for the processes of Mantic's market research.
6. I specifically asked about this:
This apparent mix are all from the to be released Abyssal dwarves army list, which explains why they were offered together as a $30 add on.
I asked if I could swap out the infernal guard for something else, like werewolves the answer was no. as customising the orders at that level is not something they are set up to cater for.
Also Mantic will not be selling singles either. The golems and werewolves are all either on one sprue or in one bag, from China. So no one Werewolf and two Golems etc, which I asked about as it would better fit the mix for a boardgame. These are however army miniatures sold in their unit sizes, so Mantic isn't again set up for that.
7. I asked about the board contents. The Black Fortress contains different print dungeon pieces, as does Tyrant of Halpi. The other two main expansions include extra board pieces but I don't remember if they are unique sets.
What I did find out is that Halls of Dolgarth:
- Doesn't come with any new scenarios unlike Black Fortress.
- Is a direct duplication of all the tiles in the main boxset, so you get nothing extra just 2x basic tiles for your own dungeons. As with all the expansions you likely have enough tiles it might not be that good a buy.
Mantic had not AFAIK at any time given a breakdown of what Halls of Dolgarth contained.
Those who have yet to finalise pledges might profit from this info. I for one am glad I didnt buy in this but chose Black Fortress instead.
- Black Fortress tiles should fit in the twin books along with the three formal expansions (Warlord of Galahir, Infernal Crypts, of Tyrant Halpi), but I have no assurances.
8. The boss today claimed Dungeon Saga will be available for backers in August, for retail 'later'. the only other product I asked about, the Deadzone expansion inclusing the piper farm pieces and industrial terrain will be out 'next year'.I didjnt ask about any other products specifically with regards to release dates.
This is horses mouth info from today at Salute, diluted only from memory (about 9 hours) as I took not direct notes or recording. It is as accurate as I can make it, but its up to you how much store you place by it.
Hope this all helps.
From the summary there, it sounds like Dungeon Saga will be about a step up from the quality of the likes you see in FFG's recent release of Star Wars: Imperial Assault, which, to be honest, is perfectly serviceable, so a bit of a step up from there seems pretty good to me.
Inferior to current GW plastic sculpts, inferior to resin products (naturally).
They are similar in quality to the 90's plastic sculpts from GW. I made my first Empire army out of plastic miniatures from Advanced Heroquest, Talisman, Heroquest and Battlemaster. The sculpts were consistent but crude, when painted the army had a very nice effect and that Talisman based character miniatures were good, simple sculpts look good with a simple paint job.
Descent is at that level of quality, and paints up nicely but doesnt permit a stellar paijnt job.
Dungeon Saga is similar but slightly better and with more solid plastic than Descent (which is soft toy plastic). Proportions arer good, the detail is good but not fine, what you get works, but don't expect to see all the buttons, deep face expressions and other fine detail.
My point is that because its not there your eye doesn't miss it when you look at the miniature painted.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I should keep this seperate from the rumour report.
My impressions of Mantic at Salute was that the focus was on Kings of War 2.0, Masrs Attacks and Dreadball. With gimics like alien masks for the Mars Attacks theme.
Dungeon Saga got a large banner ad on the side of their demonstration area and a very thin display case. I asked to see the dragon, and Mr Renton admitted sheepishly that he overlooked bringing it. The DS display cabinet was 80% empty glass with the same basic miniatures we have seen before: four characters, some furniture and the zombie troll shaman boss. Mantic really wasn't thinking about that product on the day.
Mantic has specialist games syndrome with Dungeon Saga to some extent, though I dont get the impression they are abandoning it at all, they were happy to talk about it (though only one specialist on the game was present) and he did have a cardboard box with sample miniatures and answered all my questions with enthusiasm and no evasion. Still the company focus was almost entirely elsewhere which is a little odd for an autumn release after an annual show.
Thanks for taking the time for the report Orlanth, some nice details for backers.
I understand the focus upon other games that are not Dungeon Saga, after all they had products to sell for all of those on the day and DS will not be seeing retail for at least 4/5 months, possibly longer. Also with Mars Attacks being a licence among what seems like a sea of licences at Salute (most far more heavy hitting Halo/Terminator/AVP etc) maybe they felt they had to concentrate on what some may see as a "marquee" product. Given the way that Mantic like to meet deadlines there is also the possibility that they just did not have that much to show off. Past Kickstarters have seen products delivered to Mantic from the manufacturers and then packaged up and sent out in short order.
All of the Abyssal Dwarf miniatures in the Doom Guard Booster pack are from the Kings of War line and are currently available at retail.
No worries, this was one of the few Mantic Kickstarters that I did not back but am certainly interested at picking it up at retail once it is released and RPG ers like yourself can report if the game plays well or not.
I have supported Mantic from the start. They are not a perfect company but I do not think such a thing exists. I just hope they deliver on this game for all of those that supported its funding, and if they do it could be a very good money earner for them.
They look ok to me.
Cant see the details and the dragon is chubby but Mantic have done a far better job of putting a dragon on a square base than GW ever did.
Looks fine to me I intend on leaving it unpainted so it's nice to see the final product. Hopefully the.miniatures held the detail well enough DBX was fine so this should be on a par. I'm glad there are no slotta bases as it spoils the look but I hope the smaller minis have enough contact points with the base and are securely glued. Speaking of bases I hope the dragons is just a place holder as it will look odd with an untextured base.
SilverMK2 wrote: Hoping for some closeups of the abyssals - especially since I have an entire army of them coming when the KoW2 kickstarter delivers...
Like these that I shamelessly stole from brueckenkopf online?
Only fair I include a link to their original article...
Well gak. I would have probably picked up one or both of those kits if they had gotten those photos out before the pledge manager closed.
Succubi are slutty yet still not crazily oversexed like some things, probably a good balance there? They seem pretty meaty but I guess that's harder to tell unless they're up next to other minis. They do not appear to have overly short legs.
The abbysals/infernals or w/e you call them look ok. Not *as* interested in those but they'd make a solid grunt unit, which is what they are so I suppose that's a win.
I tried yesterday in response to Grimdork's post, and found I could not enter the pledge manager, so it looks like it was closed between Salute and then.
Than again I might be doing it wrong. I used my email backers code, and it just sent me to my account details without access to the pledge manager, if someone knows another way let us know..
I could have sworn they said it would definitely be opened one more time before goodies were sent out to backers. I'll contact them and check-I couldn't add anything when I submitted my address via PM.
If not, I have ways of getting SERIOUSLY deep discounts on Mantic stuff. So whatevs. I can survive.
Buttery Commissar wrote: There's an open day at HQ on the 16th, I'll ask in person about the PM if I manage to make it over there.
Pictures if you can please, also any more info on the miniatures.
Are the Abyssals and Orcs going to be from the Kings of War range, or monopose.
Which miniatures would you like to know more about?
I am not 100% sure whether photos are allowed, I will find out on the day. I can see the reasoning that amateur photos can do more harm than good for an unreleased game. I believe that is why they were not photographing stuff on the playtest days.
In fact this was the only photo they posted.
There'll no doubt be something interesting on the day, in the past they've shown three-ups of unreleased bits and pieces, or concept art. I can't actually remember how many of these events I've been dragged to- I mean excitedly attended... but they're always ace.
The only problem is that it's the same day as Games Workshop reopening Warhammer World, and I was going to attend that in the morning as a fully uniformed Mordian Iron Guard. I'll have to get changed in the car, it'd be exceptionally jerky (and confusing) to turn up dressed like that to Mantic's HQ.
Any other day, I would.
Jokes aside, no. It's their open day, and I really like the staff.
Plus if anyone is there to take publicity shots, I'd massively feth them up.
I'll be Mordian from the waist down (ooh-err madam) because I'm not about to try changing my trousers and knee-boots in the car.
Buttery Commissar wrote: Any other day, I would.
Jokes aside, no. It's their open day, and I really like the staff.
Plus if anyone is there to take publicity shots, I'd massively feth them up.
I'll be Mordian from the waist down (ooh-err madam) because I'm not about to try changing my trousers and knee-boots in the car.
Is there a suitable Mantic faction you can make a jacket for that fits your Mordian trousers and boots?
How are you for tailoring your own stuff. Magi are the best option. If the boots and trousers are overshadowed by robes...
A long cotton tunic and a cloak, you can keep your boots and trousers as are, especially if you add blue gaiters. And the necromancers clothes can be scrumped up into a bag. Mortibris is probably not interested in fashion.
White wig if needed and now if they have publicity shots going on you are an asset not a liability. Mortibris would be simple to do frankly.
Okay, I've led you astray with my pants, and I apologise.
For the record I couldn't pass as Mortibris, for a multitude of reasons. However my pet chemist absolutely could, and I wish he were into cosplay. He even has the posture and hands down perfectly due to early onset arthritis. He used to want a job working in a Halloween theme park as a ghoul.
Anyway, I have to say, looking back even months later, I really fething enjoyed playing the game. I can't say I feel that sort of affection for others, even epics such as Cthulhu Wars. They're onto something utterly charming here.
I believe Mantic were talking about introducing a platform for folks to share their DS based creations (character stats, adventures, painted Mantic figures?) though whether it happens with everything else on their plate is up in the air. I think it would be fantastic.
Buttery Commissar wrote: Okay, I've led you astray with my pants, and I apologise.
For the record I couldn't pass as Mortibris, for a multitude of reasons. However my pet chemist absolutely could, and I wish he were into cosplay. He even has the posture and hands down perfectly due to early onset arthritis. He used to want a job working in a Halloween theme park as a ghoul.
Anyway, I have to say, looking back even months later, I really fething enjoyed playing the game. I can't say I feel that sort of affection for others, even epics such as Cthulhu Wars. They're onto something utterly charming here.
I believe Mantic were talking about introducing a platform for folks to share their DS based creations (character stats, adventures, painted Mantic figures?) though whether it happens with everything else on their plate is up in the air. I think it would be fantastic.
Trying to work out what you are saying here.
Have you already played Dungeon Saga?
Anyone can play Dungeon Saga if they go download all the print and play demo/ alpha stuff. I'm hoping with the Open Day this weekend that we see a lot more photos of new stuff. Maybe they'll have preproduction copies to demo the game on?
Or you can go play Dwarf King's Hold, which is what I'm getting a hankering for in the interim period.
Orlanth, I've played it twice (10am - 6pm) at Mantic HQ in Nottingham as part of their play testing. I believe everyone at the appropriate level of the kickstarter has print and play demo copies? I am sharing a KS pledge because of a card expiry during final payments. I don't get the emails.
We've played the base set adventures and one of the expansions. We were playing with proxy figures, some real map tiles and mostly photocopied paper tiles. Also plain text cards.
For the finale of one game they placed the real, painted dragon into the board or the folk playing his expansion. A real "Oh fffff..." moment.
Thanks, I re-attached on Page 60. When I started to find ways to get on board. No point reading 60 pages of thread of a project you want in but can't, that is only an exercise in frustration.
From your review, is the special exclusive cool thing the book-boxes?
Originally before the books were widely announced, we were told they'd be for KS backers, and I either wrongly assumed that they were exclusive (the spare case if you order 3 expansions *is*) or they changed to general release to be more economically viable.
The elf standing on rocks is still something I have to consider as dumb... but everything looks pretty solid beyond that.
Mortibris is also a little boring as the head badguy, but if you want to look at it from the human angle, maybe him being less terrifying almost works. Solid necromancer mini regardless.
We hit the open day but unfortunately due to a massive feth up on my part we didn't get there until 3PM. Missed all the seminars and any open games.
I got to chat quietly with some of the lovely staff guys and unfortunately they confirmed:
That is it for the Pledge Manager. Done. Shut. Finito. Because Ronnie was not in the room, I don't have complete word of God, just word of 3/4 of the staff.
Also because he was not in the room, I didn't have clear permission to take pics, but those posted above are better than I could have done with a wonky iPhone.
I did eschew from wearing my jacket when I got there but they found it hilarious nonetheless.
Yes. Much like "add on wednesdays", Mantic reveals are rarely worth getting excited over despite the hype. Better to just monitor Dakka's News and Rumors section.
No... But it's now apparently a "big reveal week" so I think they might be building to something.
I was told about the seminar big reveal this evening but promptly forgot, I'm so sorry. I'll try and get the other half to repeat himself before he goes to work in the morning.
It was something to do with those B&W production artworks that have made their way online, and that's honestly all I can remember.
We missed the seminar, but during the chat it was explained that basically they want to improve in areas like communication, focusing on building and strengthening games they've already put out, rather than constant expansion into new areas.
Sounds good to me.
Well with a fantasy mass battle game with like 8 factions, a sci fi mass battle game in the works, a sci fi skirmish game, a dungeon crawler, a sports game and a licensed game on the go right now, I think it's time to consolidate and relax things a bit.
Looking at where they've gotten in a few years is really impressive when you look at it that way, even with the growing pains. And I have to say those production shots have dispelled any doubts I had about backing this project- extremely happy that I did, now, and happy to pick up mantic board game plastic.
Yes. Much like "add on wednesdays", Mantic reveals are rarely worth getting excited over despite the hype. Better to just monitor Dakka's News and Rumors section.
add on wednesdays
If any reveals, big or small for Dungeon Saga are made, I would be grateful if they are reported here rather than, or in addition to Mantic rumours/news. I don't have interest in any other Mantic game and wouldn't want to have to trawl through reams of crap on Dreadbowl etc to find Dungeon Saga info.
They just seem so amateur at times, it's frustrating. They have some really good ideas, and are filling a void left by GW. Just wish it was all a bit slicker and professional.
Of all the companies out there, it's Mantic I want to do well. They just seem really keen to keep the 'almost' tag.
To be fair to them, they've not completely messed up anything yet despite some pretty ambitious projects, and they are producing games that people want to play. I think their output is very impressive especially when you consider the diversity of offerings coming from them. They've definitely had some misteps, but not too much more than most other companies.
MM has several extra packs of stuff too, furniture, halls of dolgarth expansion, etc. Looks like the resin upgraded version heroes are 32 bucks discounted from 40, so a bit of savings there. How much were the doors and furniture to add on? They're 20/14 something dollars on MM. More tiles are 20.
The miniatures in the Legendary Heroes set are metal as it's a retail release where as the KS ones are resin and only the resin versions are exclusive.
From a boardgaming perspecitve it would have made more sense to do them in the same material as the rest of the game, but what do I know.
I do think that's a fair tradeoff with the whole exclusivity thing, doing them in another material.
I'll probably considering picking them up too. They were one of the very few things I was indecisive about getting. Makes me hopeful we'll see other legendary heroes in metal/ plastic as well at some future date.
Random guesses:
* Manttc didn't think boardgamers would pay this much for the Legendary figures, so used metal, which holds details better, and is less expensive for smaller runs than plastic.
* Mantic labelled the Legendary figures as Exclusive and in resin. By retailing them i metal, they're still "exclusive".
Glad to see this KS reaching its release! Looks like a great starting point for those new to dungeoncrawls!
I skipped a lot of images as they've been seen before. So Legendary Mortribis will be available for 15 Mantic Points and they will give backers 6 points towards that sounds alright to me plus I have 14 points I haven't had a chance to use yet so happy days.
Hero, your quest begins here!
Adventurers,
We’re now in the final print-proofing stages for the Dungeon Saga Boxed Game. Our manufacturer has done a few print-test samples for us to see, and they are shipping a few of these to the UK and US. This is partly for us to see physical samples but also to make sure that it ships without getting damaged.
Dungeon Saga Week
Next week we are running another Dungeon Saga week. This forms part of the build-up to our retail release of the core game though there should be plenty of new previews for you to see as well. Some of it will be familiar stuff though, just bear that in mind
As part of our retail launch of the game, we've created a limited edition figure for our retail partners to use to sell copies of the game.
This is a metal figure depicting Mortribris the Necromancer after he has achieved a Legendary status toward the end of the story. Of course we want you to be able to get this figure too, so we're making it available through our Mantic Points scheme for 15 points.
What is Mantic Points?
To say thank you for choosing Mantic, many of our miniatures kits – from DreadBall MVPs to big boxed Army Deals – contain Mantic Points. These red points can be cut out and sent back to us in exchange for exclusive free rewards.
Traditionally our Kickstarter shipments do not include Mantic Points. This is because Kickstarter rewards are heavily discounted and sometimes even exclusive to the campaign.
Dungeon Saga is no exception to this: to give you an idea, the core game included in the Dungeon Master pledge will retail for $80 - and by the time you add up the RRP of the Adventurer's Companion, Return of Valandor expansion, exclusive figures and more, it's a heck of a deal.
But, as we said, we want to help get you on this way to getting this figure, so a Dungeon Master pledge will include at least 6 Points to get you on your way towards getting the figure.
Game Contents:
We've had the final contents shot for the back of the Dungeon Saga: The Dwarf King's Quest core game box taken.
Here's what you'll be getting:
So, what is all of that stuff?
All of the rules to play Dungeon Saga:
- 8-Page Step-by-step Quick Start guide
- 24-Page Dungeon Saga Rulebook
- 32-Page Dungeon Saga Quest Book
26 Battle-ready Coloured Plastic Miniatures – no assembly required!
- 4 Mighty Heroes
Orlaf the Barbarian
Rordin the Dwarf Fighter
Madriga the Elven Ranger
Danor the Human Wizard
- 4 Terrifying Bosses
Mortibris the Necromancer
Elshara the Elven Banshee
Grund the Undead Dwarf King
Hoggar the Undead Zombie Troll Shaman
- 18 Horrifying Undead
4 Skeleton Warriors in two different poses
4 Zombies in two different poses
2 Skeleton Archers
2 Basilean Armoured Zombies
2 Ghosts
2 Dwarf Revenants
2 Zombie Trolls
A fully interactive 3D Dungeon:
- 33 double-sided Dungeon Room and Corridor Tiles made of thick card.
- 50 clear plastic clips to hold your dungeon together
- 10 plastic Dungeon Doors:
6 Small Doors
2 Small Portcullises
2 Double Doors
- 22 pieces of plastic Dungeon furniture, including:
4 Treasure Chests with Lids
4 Barrels
2 Tables
1 Bookcase
1 Sorcerer's Cabinet
1 Well
1 Lectern with Book
1 Throne
1 Tomb
1 Weapon Rack
Everything you need to play:
- 8 double-sided Character Cards for your heroes and villains
- 1 Overlord Panel for the Necromancer player
- 6 Bone-coloured Overlord dice
- 6 Blue-coloured Hero Dice
- “Long” and “Short” Range Rulers
- 22 Overlord Command Cards
- 9 Minor Spell Cards
- 12 Major Spell Cards
- 27 Magic Item Cards
- 8 Ability Cards
- 24 Wound Counters
- 4 Hero Counters
- 24 Piles of Bones
- 6 Weak Point Counters
- 1 Cave In Counters
- 3 Petty Magic Spell Effect Counters
- 1 Geomancy Spell Effect Counter
- 1 Sorcery Spell Effect Counter
- 4 Necromancy Spell Effect Counters
- 1 You are in my Power Counter
- 16 Experience Counters
- 1 Banshee Heart in 4 Pieces
- 15 Door Counters
All miniatures are supplied assembled and unpainted.
Just to reiterate that the solo play/full co-op rules and A.I. cards, called Invisible Overlord, are in the Adventurer’s Companion Rulebook and expansion set.
We hope you like the core game - after all, we couldn't have made it without your help! - and will join us for Dungeon Saga week next week.
Compel wrote: *Points out you need to pay P&P on mantic points, unless you do the minimum order elsewise...*
£35 is a pretty low bar to reach for free international postage imo, f. ex my local FIGS recently went up to $150 AUD (currently £73) just for domestic
This is true that you would have to pay shipping, but its also true that they didn't have to give anyone points at all. Mantic is perfectly in the right to sculpt a LE model for the retail release that we never had a chance at, it's not the same thing as offering a kickstarter exclusive mini at retail. Rather than making it pre-order exclusive, they're giving us a shot at it.
I'll probably save up my points and tack him on to an order someday, I kind of blew all of my mantic points at gencon last year fishing for discounts on battlezones
Its growing on me, I didnt like it at first, it looked way too fat in earlier images, which were all front shots But the all round view changed my mind.
Which thing was it that we got for backing that isn't supposed to hit retail? I guess not the adventurer's companion... dungeon journal or something? Seeing all the fun scenarios in my Imperial Assault game (which seems to be of a similar archetype) makes me think that bonus scenarios will be quite useful and fun.
Yes, the EDIT "Dungeon Journal" supposedly contains:
- Rules for the Kickstarter-exclusive stuff.
- All of the old content from the previous versions of Dawrf King's Hold, updated for the new rules.
- Rules & scenarios for the Black Fortress tile set.
- 12 bonus missions.
- An Orc & Goblin campaign.
- An Abyssal campaign.
So plenty of content there, my bet is that is that some of it will just come in smaller bits with the various expansions (e.g. when you buy Black Fortress retail, or the big-box expansions). But very handy to have it in one place!
EDIT - The doubly-confusing part is that I think the Kickstarter hardback that people pledging over £200 get includes both! But yes, at retail I think Mantic is basically going for substantial expansions, tile and enemy/hero packs, and the more "in-depth" Adventurer's Companion for those who want to expand things. Hopefully that will actually end up looking straightforward, it just all feels a bit abstract currently.
Bioptic wrote: Yes, the "Dungeon Journal" supposedly contains:
Fixed. The adventurers companion is the other book, which *is* available at retail. Ive seen the two confused quite often, which could lead to some people going in with false expectations (ie, buying the Companion and being disappointed that there arent any scenarios inside... or angry even.
Anyone able to post a 360 of the barbarian, I really don't like what I see about his pose, and his weapon looks wierd. So far it looked like I will convert him, I will need to do a lot on conversion work already, mostly to individualise the undead.
That's a nice, atmospheric shot. Wonder what they used for their brick walls, I don't need a fully 3d dungeon but having a good backdrop for photos would be nice.
You can get some from model railway suppliers, get some dense (blue) polyfoam and papier mache. Perfect for 3D dungeonscapes. If you do this you need to up the scale of the squares a tad and add spacers around the edges of rooms and corridors edge to account for swinging weapons, long limbs and tails. drainiage channels or stone skirting or just swept up debris edging is a good choice.
Supposedly today we're going to FINALLY hear more about the adventurer's companion book, wihch is what a lot of people pledged for in the first place.
They keep including Ogres in those photos too, which I hope means Jake changed his mind and let us make Ogre heroes as well, or at least give rules for using Ogres in Dungeon Saga.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Supposedly today we're going to FINALLY hear more about the adventurer's companion book, wihch is what a lot of people pledged for in the first place.
As the models for Mantic fantasy range are all assembled multipose yet those for Dungeon Sags are static sourcing a small but wide variety of bits will be useful.
I will be happy to buy spare abyssal, orc and undead bitz to add some variety to my monsters when I get my game in August. I doubt I will be the only one to think this way, though for orcs and undead GW bits might also work.
Alternatively, if you pledged on Reaper Bones II you've got a boatload of hero/villain fodder if you're not chuffed with the models that come with Dungeon Saga
Watched the video on the blog, saying the delivery date will be early september for KS backers. That's interesting. I hadn't noticed that it had slipped back just yet.
Getting more excited the closer it gets though, I must admit!
Ronnie kind of messed up there... clarification by Rich on KS:
Shipping is still scheduled to start in August and I am going to set up a Mission Control soon so you can see where everything is.
We’ll release a full update for when I have that ready.
angelofvengeance wrote: Alternatively, if you pledged on Reaper Bones II you've got a boatload of hero/villain fodder if you're not chuffed with the models that come with Dungeon Saga
No, I'm pledged to my hobby cap recently already between Human Interface and the pledge manager for Dungeon Saga.
Nah, Bones 2 is all delivered and half of it (guessing, estimating, not clear on the actual number here) has already shown up at retail. Bones 3 is counting down to deployment, however. Haven't been watching that one.
So expect Dungeon Saga somewhere between august and september. Woot.
Well the results are in and I think it’s safe to say that solo play and full co-op won the bulk of our Dungeon Saga vote. Don’t worry, we will tackle everything else about this book in time.
Invisible Overlord
The rules for Solo Play and Full Co-op are exactly the same – they both use a system called the Invisible Overlord to replace the human-overlord player. The card deck can replace any human-overlord player, so you can also use it for any of the pre-written scenarios in the main game and expansions.
This section will look at how the Invisible Overlord works.
Whether you are playing on your own, or there are up to four of you ready to tackle the dungeon together, the game gives you control of the heroes with which to adventure with. If you’re playing on your own, you will control all of them. If you’re playing cooperatively, you’ll split them between you.
To determine the actions of the Overlord’s followers, there is a deck of cards called the Invisible Overlord.
The Invisible Overlord system isn’t as smart as a real player, but it tries. Its main aim is to provide a challenging, yet entertaining game. It does this by having two main aims: play in character and cripple a Hero. Playing in character is more fun than not, and the Invisible Overlord will win if he can cripple a Hero, so that’s good too.
Invisible Overlord Cards
Excerpt from the Adventurer’s Companion:
There are two types of card in an Invisible Overlord deck. The first type is the core cards which are used by all Overlords. The second is the cards for the specific type of Overlord that rules the dungeon in question. So, an Orc Overlord has a different set of these than a Necromancer, for example. This adds more character to each Overlord.
The core Invisible Overlord cards list his Orders and the actions his models will take. How this is interpreted depends on the model’s character, and this is defined in their Bestiary entry.
The other vital ingredient to this system is the concept of Threat. Each Hero seems more or less threatening to the Overlord’s followers at that moment, and this changes throughout the adventure. Depending on the combination of this Threat, the model’s character and the specific IO card drawn, the Invisible Overlord will give an Order and his followers will react accordingly. You then use the normal rules to resolve these actions.
Each Invisible Overlord card is made up of four parts: Number, Threat, Order, and Interrupt.
Number is the how many models act when this card is revealed.
Threat describes what the Overlord sees as being particularly worrying at that moment.
Order describes the command given by the Invisible Overlord to combat this Threat.
Interrupt is either Yes or No and tells you whether this card will interrupt between two Hero Turns or not. Most will not. Those that do simply use the listed Number, Threat and Order to resolve the Overlord’s actions.
Which Models Act?
When you turn an IO card you need to decide who follows the Order. One at a time, select models and resolve their actions, starting with step (1), below.
Models that can do the Order without moving. For example, an Attack Order for a model that already has a Hero in their front arc. Ignore this step for a Pin order.
Models that can do the Order. Start with the models that need to Move the furthest in order to bring more of them into the action.
Anyone else. If the Number has not been reached and are no models left who can perform the Order drawn, then do a Support Order with the remainder. If the Number has still not been reached then do an Attack Order. If any still remain after all these Orders then they are ignored and the card is considered complete.
There are a few more rules in the Companion describing each of these things in more detail, such as picking targets and calculating threat, but that’s basically it – a very simple system to control the Overlord.
Some discretion is required, as A.I. rules are always a tricky balancing act.
On the one hand you want to try to control the opposition forces cleverly so that the player can have a fun time and an interesting challenge. On the other hand, the more rules you write to do this, the more they slow the game down. Couple this challenge with the vast number of detail decisions a real player makes in every Turn of Dungeon Saga and it is inevitable that you’ll eventually find a situation that isn’t covered.
When this happens, there are a couple of different ways to approach the problem listed in the book.
And there you have it – everything you need to know about Full Co-Op and Solo Play. Any questions please feel free to drop them in the comments below, and check out our next reveal tomorrow for another in-depth look at a particular aspect of the Adventurer’s Companion.
Buttery Commissar wrote: Been told today that shipping has been delayed until September? I don't get the Kickstarter mailers, so hadn't heard. Can anyone confirm/deny?
Confirmed in a KS update.
Not really surprising as DBX Frenzy and KoW were shifted to August.
And after amazing efforts from everybody involved – from you getting the pledge manager back to us, Jake and the play testers, through sculpting and tooling and particularly the layout and editing team everything is now out being proofed and printed. It looks good for shipping in September (finger crossed – things can still change even at this late stage).
Beasts of War are doing a Dungeon Saga weekend. As usual with BoW they lay it on extra thick for sponsor companies products, but I do believe the enthusiasm to be genuine, and deserved.
Unboxing. Game looks nice quality.
Intro scenario teaching movement and melee rules. These two tutorial scenarios are extremely basic and get straight to the point, and even have their own playsheets to pull down the leaning curve. Good design.
Tutorial scenario teaching missile and magic rules. Splitting the scenarios causes a story arc showing how the party got together; like that storyline feature.
First true scenario, now watched it yet as it wasn't uploaded last night.
No Warren in the last vid. It was hinted that he was being enough of an arse and was sitting this one out. I can imagine this, he was overenthusiastic shouting down his partner in game, interrupting the Mantic rep and generally getting in the way. I didn't see the second scenario played through because I haven't bothered to ever sign up for any 'backstage pass'.
Anyway on to the info gleaned from the preview weekend. Can some of those with Mantic connexions clear a point please.
In the Unboxing the Mantic rep said that each expansion has its own book box. 2:29- 2:35 first video.
Yet backers are getting a single combined box, and then only if they pledged for all the expansions. This appeared to be confirmed on Kickstarter.
Dungeon Saga is going to begin shipping a couple of weeks later than originally planned.
We’re in the final stages of production, with Dungeon Master pledges about to go on boats to our shipping hubs in the UK, US and Australia - you may have seen a few of the finished samples of the game at Gen Con. If you didn't get to pop by the stand, you can see Bell of Lost Souls Mantic Games Stand Showcase here in this video.
Shortly thereafter, boats will be laden with what we call Carton B – those Dungeon Master pledges that also pledged for all three expansions and got the Kickstarter Exclusive Book Box for doing so - and they will soon be on their way to us.
There is no news anywhere about releases for the expansions beyond the Adventurers companion. Are the rules for all those expansions done printed and balanced, the miniatures done yet for some reason the product s not ready to even pre-order?
As far as I know, the expansions are done, but their public release will be spread across a year or so, an expansion every three months. Thats what Ive heard, anyway.
Mantic have complete copies, but have to have them specially imported by air. This is normal for outsourced manufacturing. Mantic probably have enough copies for demonstrations and for sending out to select reviewers, maybe even one or two for themselves, but that is that is all. I doubt they have any copies to trade, and backers copies will be batched out.
Besides it appears that backers will have non standard copies anyway, KS exclusive miniatures may well be in the box, and the main expansions are shipped in a custom book rather thsan the retail copies books.
BTW Good choice of faction, quiaff.
Honour the memory of Aidan Pryde!
I am mostly unconcerned. I know Mantic can deliver their Kickstarter stuff pretty quick compared to other folks' projects (*COUGH* AvP:THB, CreatureCaster)
Come to think of it, I have a gakload of models coming in this year. Heresy Miniatures, x2 KoW armies, Minion Minis, Dungeon Saga and DZ:Infestation scenery. Maybe AvP too at some point in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium..
Buttery Commissar wrote: To clarify about the Kickstarter packaging etc, I think we're getting a little muddled.
The Kickstarter exclusive box is a single book sized storage book box you only get if you pledged for all three expansions.
The retail and KS packaging is to the best of my knowledge otherwise identical.
Retail copies of the expansions will come in book boxes according to the rep who was at the Beasts of War weekender.
Those who pledge for all expansions get a special book box, we don't know what partial backers get.
angelofvengeance wrote: I am mostly unconcerned. I know Mantic can deliver their Kickstarter stuff pretty quick compared to other folks' projects (*COUGH* AvP:THB, CreatureCaster).
Or Heroquest 25th. It has only been a few months since I bought Dungeon Saga, and its ready to ship, though admittedly I had a late pledge. It has a run time of little over one year. That is quite impressive.
Gamezone looks like it will need twice that.
AVP is forgiven as it has delivered and looks great.
Come to think of it, I have a gakload of models coming in this year. Heresy Miniatures, x2 KoW armies, Minion Minis, Dungeon Saga and DZ:Infestation scenery. Maybe AvP too at some point in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium..
GW doesnt allow Kickstarter funding for its IP, so no crowdfunded 40K.
Crowdfunding miniatures is expanding very rapidly, most are computer sculpt studio productions outsourced to China. Its the way forward.
They are:
The Return of Valandor: Valandor
The Warlord of Galahir: Kapoka, Gladewalker Druid, and Hrratth, Salamander Fighter.
The Infernal Crypts: Arianya, the Naiad Demonhunter, and Venetia, human cleric.
The Tyrant of Halpi: Ibrahim, human paladin and Ally, Halfling Thief.
Can we get a list of the monsters in the Adventurer’s Companion?
A1) I’m sure we can put that together for you in a future update, yep!
How will the Dungeon Critters offered as a Kickstarter addon work?
Please check out the post here on the Bestiary, it includes the rules for using critters in your adventurers.
Will Ravenna the Witch and Gunn the Dwarven Engineer be release after the kickstarter?
Yep!
Will metal Legendary Heroes of Renown and Heroes of Mantica be released in metal like the Heroes of Dolgarth?
Yep!
What is the schedule to release the expansions?
The current plan is that they are all out by the end of December 2016. I’m afraid I can’t be more specific than that but expect them roughly 3 months apart from each other
(Dakka rumour confirmed)
If in the future you release more Heroes / Villains, how about releasing them in a double pack as the normal and legendary versions? I think it would make sense as if you choose to buy the miniature, more than likely you will be interested in the advanced legendary version.
It’s possible depending on what material the hero/villains are in. I think that experienced hobbyists would be ok with a combination of plastic miniatures and metal alternatives. For beginners who are looking at this as a board game, the metal legendary figure may put them off and prevent them from being able to get one of the plastic heroes they might want.
As per the KOW, will there be ‘Non mantic’ races included, like the Ratkin?
Or could these be added later
Not in the Adventurer’s Companion, but you never know we may do it in the future!
Does the Kickstarter version [of the Adventurer’s Companion] include the Tome Box?
No.
After seeing all the BoW weekend videos, DS seem simplistic to me. Too simplistic. With Decent 2nd edition having more complexity and higher production values, what DS have that will pull the Decent players in?
The adventures we’ve shown off on Beasts of War so far are the opening scenarios designed to teach people how to play. They are intentionally simplistic, and as you progress through the story, the scenarios get more complex, with new mechanics, enemies and bosses introduced. Add in the Adventurer’s Companion and the sky is really the limit about how complicated you want it to be!
Production Values – in my personal opinion I think we more than match Descent for quality at 2/3 the price. The book packaging is amazing, the miniatures are great quality and the gameplay’s natural progression really helps achieve the feel of the game we are looking for. I thoroughly recommend having a demo with the product when it’s available
Anyone else tried to view their order recently? I can not find my order anywhere. I never registered on the manticgames site and am not surprised that I can not log in there. I did register on the manticdigital site because that was used as the PM. I have not bought anything before or after Dungeon Saga. I can log into manticdigital.com and it shows my proper email address, and shipping / billing address but I can not find my past orders anywhere.
any advice?
also the link provided way back when the PM first opened just leads to a page on Manticdigital that says "oops that page can not be found"
Did you search your email for info@manticdigital.com? That's the sender's email for your link to the pledge manager. The subject for that email was "Your Dungeon Saga Pledge", if that helps in your searching.
The pledge manager is here, but you'll need a code from that email to log on. Alternatively, you could contact Rich at Mantic(rich.armstrong@manticgames.com), but he's swamped right now, shipping out Kings of War and soon Dungeon Saga, so don't expect a reply quickly (I emailed him a week ago, and am still waiting)
Automatically Appended Next Post: PS their pledge manager was hard to use, and sent me no notification of what I had ordered. After all the ballyhoo about how great their "new pledge manager" was going to be, this was a huge disappointment and rather frustrating.
hmm. thanks pancake. that did not lead me anywhere but to another dead end (it said times up for pledging basically) but at least it was more than "page not found"
Buttery Commissar wrote: One box of very shiny things has arrived in my house...
Unfortunately I'm not home until Saturday. Gonna sit here and stare forlornly into space.
Hopefully everyone will start to get their goodies very shortly.
I'm not even sure if I have e non carton B addons coming. Feels like I did main pledge, three expansions... Oh maybe I'll get the black hold or something separately.
Definitely excited to see this arrive, I'd love to get it early enough to finish it before the new year, otherwise it'll be my first project of 2016.
My other half opened the box as we shared a shipment.
No hardback book upgrades, storage book, furniture or minions for the dragon expansion. Apparently to come later, still being made.
And I apologise for the tease, I haven't seen them either. OH refuses to buy a smartphone so I haven't even seen pictures.
First package should just be addons. The carton A/B stuff is still go come afaik. Well they have cartons for the UK already, US cartons are on a boat atm. Bit I think all misc addons are what's being shipped now, all from the UK.
Thank you to Noodle the gamer and family for this unveiling. It's the debut of the main expansions.
If anyone has a KS account (I backed entirely via Mantic) could someone query what looks to be a misprint. At 8:55 it shows the Orc Warlord Overlord Panel.
Basic goblins Goblin Warriors and Goblin Spitters get two wounds. I can understand why orclings get two wounds, there are five of them on a base, but gobbos are based singly.
Likely this is a misprint like the refer to page X people have been saying is in the Journal. But its funny how backers see them at first glance, in fact first possible glance, while the developers miss them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I suppose I should also be first in with the joke reply that Mantic dungeon goblins have a lot going for them.
Orcs do though. The green rage rule effectively encompasses the two wound rule. If they take the first "wound", they get the rage bonus. Second "wound", they die.
Buttery Commissar wrote: Sadly some bits missing, lots of bits missing from the other half's pledge.
I'd be interested to see Tyrant King Blaine, if it's not a bother (assembled, unassembled, whatever is fine) and a nice shot of a mawbeast would be cool. I have mawbeasts in PVC and metal and would be curious to see how they came out in the Dungeon Saga set.
Glad to see this is shipping. I was a late backer so I don't get the updates in an email. The boat for us US backers seems to be just outside of Japan currently headed to LA. We will see if this lands before my KOW2 missing pledge.
Theophony wrote: Glad to see this is shipping. I was a late backer so I don't get the updates in an email. The boat for us US backers seems to be just outside of Japan currently headed to LA. We will see if this lands before my KOW2 missing pledge.
I'm in the same boat, so to speak. My pledge for KoW never arrived (the add ons did though!) and one of the recent KoW updates now says they have to reorder a bunch of stuff for us folks who done got our pledge "disappeared". As much as I want to really like Mantic, this stuff gets old...
So yes, now it's a race between KoW and DS (then of course will my DS pledge be missing things too?!?)
Well, it's not like my hobby needs aren't being met by a bunch of other games, so I reckon it's not the end of the world.
While Mantic say dont call about deliveries until 7th December, as I am not on the formal shipping and email list I am concerned I might get overlooked.
I screwed up my own shipping location, sent them an email apologizing, they've told me my package was found and it will be delivered as soon as they can. Being as it was my screw up, I can wait until I get it.
While Mantic say dont call about deliveries until 7th December, as I am not on the formal shipping and email list I am concerned I might get overlooked.
I late backed KoW and even with a very large order I was forgotten about until I kept prodding them. Hopefully you don't get the same treatment.
While Mantic say dont call about deliveries until 7th December, as I am not on the formal shipping and email list I am concerned I might get overlooked.
I late backed KoW and even with a very large order I was forgotten about until I kept prodding them. Hopefully you don't get the same treatment.
Not good to hear since i'm on their "List" already and I seriously would get more P.O. if they botched this KS also.
While Mantic say dont call about deliveries until 7th December, as I am not on the formal shipping and email list I am concerned I might get overlooked.
I late backed KoW and even with a very large order I was forgotten about until I kept prodding them. Hopefully you don't get the same treatment.
Not good to hear since i'm on their "List" already and I seriously would get more P.O. if they botched this KS also.
Everything looks to be their so far, need to go back through my pledge manager to double check.
The bases are awesome, could happily base a fantasy army on them.
The infernals make me regret not backing for an army of them on the KOW2 kickstarter.
The only disappointment is ba'el who is tiny compared to what I expected. And the two expansions I got have no packaging. The models / cards etc were just lose in a brown box. I know as I didn't get all three (never been a fan of mantic orcs so skipped that one) I wouldn't get the fancy box, but I expected something. They won't all fit in the fancy book packaging, just the books and tokens are too much for it, let alone any models.
Everything looks to be their so far, need to go back through my pledge manager to double check.
The bases are awesome, could happily base a fantasy army on them.
The infernals make me regret not backing for an army of them on the KOW2 kickstarter.
The only disappointment is ba'el who is tiny compared to what I expected. And the two expansions I got have no packaging. The models / cards etc were just lose in a brown box. I know as I didn't get all three (never been a fan of mantic orcs so skipped that one) I wouldn't get the fancy box, but I expected something. They won't all fit in the fancy book packaging, just the books and tokens are too much for it, let alone any models.
The upgrades were an all or nothing.
I would have pledged for Galahir anyway and replaced the models with GW orcs if I didn't like the Mantic ones. IMHO they are good sculpts. This way you get the extra box, all the details for the expansion.
However look on the bright side, I pledged extra to get to $200 and unlock the hardback book. Which looked like it was going to be full weighty tome
What we actually get is a leaflet full of noob misprints sandwiched between two pieces of heavy card. By not getting everything you are spared the wait for overhyped crap.
I was kinda disappointed by how soft detailed Valendor is.
And yeah, no boxes for expansions, even plain ones, is a real pain.
On the plus side, got three games on last night, and it was a blast. The two quick start adventures and one full party. Very quick to slip back into.
My one comment is agree as a group what side the front of the elf is.
This is interesting. I pledged for a gakload of stuff, which should be "Carton A", but they contacted me about the hardcover book as a separate item...
Is there any way to get a list of what I pledged for, or do I have to trust that their packing slips are correct? (which they are not)
Carton A should just be the main Dungeon Master pledge box. Carton B is the one you get if you got main pledge and all three expansions and it comes with a second book-box. So if you didn't qualify for Carton B, your Carton A Dungeon Master will be coming on a boat (which I think just launched as of the latest update) and everything else will be getting shipped royal mail.
But perhaps the latest update (seemed like it was today or maybe yesterday) included
Hardback Adventurer's Companion
This will affect a very small minority of people, but there has been a bit of chatter about it in the comments.
Due to an error in our database, backers who pledged over $200 and did not qualify for Carton B did not have their Hardback Adventurer's Companion upgrade added to their picking list, and instead received a softback copy of the book.
Every backer affected by this issue has now been contacted. We are planning on sending their Hardback Adventurer's Companion this week, and affected backers will be able to keep the softback copy received in error at our cost.
So perhaps you were one of those who pledged for a lot, but not specifically carton B stuff, and were therefore missed in the over/200 window (where you should get the book but database error checked the box for the softcover instead) which they're apparently addressing by sending the hardcover to those specific individuals while you can keep the softcover.
Maybe?
As for a list of what you pledged for... I'm not sure. I forget if you can still log into the pledge manager to look at your order. Maybe search your email for mantic/dungeon saga related mails and see if the pledge manager issued a receipt with what you ordered (seems like they tend to do just that, but I haven't looked in a while).
In other news the YM Utmost still seems to be lurking somewhere around Japan.
GrimDork wrote: Carton A should just be the main Dungeon Master pledge box. Carton B is the one you get if you got main pledge and all three expansions and it comes with a second book-box. So if you didn't qualify for Carton B, your Carton A Dungeon Master will be coming on a boat (which I think just launched as of the latest update) and everything else will be getting shipped royal mail.
As for a list of what you pledged for... I'm not sure. I forget if you can still log into the pledge manager to look at your order. Maybe search your email for mantic/dungeon saga related mails and see if the pledge manager issued a receipt with what you ordered (seems like they tend to do just that, but I haven't looked in a while).
Yeah, I read both updates very carefully, and also tried to log into the pledge manager (it says "Kings of War has closed!") before posting here.
The thing is I'm pretty sure I pledged for everything that was useful, and should be getting a book box (or two?) But no, I checked my email and found nothing in there with a receipt for what I ordered.
fake edit -
OK.. checked yet again using different strings. "Mantic Digital" seems to be the key one.
Early Bird - Dungeon Master 2 $190.00
The Return of Valandor Included In Eb Dungeon Master Pledges And Up: , Included With: Early Bird - Dungeon Master 2
Adventurer's Companion Soft Back (#MGKDS04-1) Included With: Early Bird - Dungeon Master 2
Green Rage Figure Pack (#MGKDS18-1) Included With: Early Bird - Dungeon Master 2
Denizens of the Abyss figure pack (#MGKDS19-1) Included With: Early Bird - Dungeon Master 2
Tyrant King Blaine (#MGKDS30-1) Included With: Early Bird - Dungeon Master 2
Infernal Crypts (#MGKDS13-1) 1 $25.00
The Warlord of Galahir (#MGKDS12-1) 1 $25.00
The Tyrant of Halpi (#MGKDS14-1) 1 $25.00
Hoggar, Zombie Troll Shaman Collector's Resin (#MGKDS34-5) 1 $8.00
Black Fortress Dungeon Tile and Furniture Pack (#MGKDS21-1) 1 $25.00
Cart Subtotal $298.00
Shipping $25.00 via Standard Shipping
Order Discount -$95.00
Order Total $228.00 (Includes $0.00 Tax)
OK... so it looks like I went sweet spot x2, so I'll be getting one of Carton A and one of Carton B. Therin lay my confusion.
Huh yeah that's odd. So they emailed to tell you about your missing hardback? Weird. I think if you've got a carton B coming you should certainly get a hardback in that as I thin it's prepackaged that way.
GrimDork wrote: Carton A should just be the main Dungeon Master pledge box. Carton B is the one you get if you got main pledge and all three expansions and it comes with a second book-box. So if you didn't qualify for Carton B, your Carton A Dungeon Master will be coming on a boat (which I think just launched as of the latest update) and everything else will be getting shipped royal mail.
As for a list of what you pledged for... I'm not sure. I forget if you can still log into the pledge manager to look at your order. Maybe search your email for mantic/dungeon saga related mails and see if the pledge manager issued a receipt with what you ordered (seems like they tend to do just that, but I haven't looked in a while).
Yeah, I read both updates very carefully, and also tried to log into the pledge manager (it says "Kings of War has closed!") before posting here.
The thing is I'm pretty sure I pledged for everything that was useful, and should be getting a book box (or two?) But no, I checked my email and found nothing in there with a receipt for what I ordered.
fake edit -
OK.. checked yet again using different strings. "Mantic Digital" seems to be the key one.
Early Bird - Dungeon Master 2 $190.00
The Return of Valandor Included In Eb Dungeon Master Pledges And Up: , Included With: Early Bird - Dungeon Master 2
Adventurer's Companion Soft Back (#MGKDS04-1) Included With: Early Bird - Dungeon Master 2
Green Rage Figure Pack (#MGKDS18-1) Included With: Early Bird - Dungeon Master 2
Denizens of the Abyss figure pack (#MGKDS19-1) Included With: Early Bird - Dungeon Master 2
Tyrant King Blaine (#MGKDS30-1) Included With: Early Bird - Dungeon Master 2
Infernal Crypts (#MGKDS13-1) 1 $25.00
The Warlord of Galahir (#MGKDS12-1) 1 $25.00
The Tyrant of Halpi (#MGKDS14-1) 1 $25.00
Hoggar, Zombie Troll Shaman Collector's Resin (#MGKDS34-5) 1 $8.00
Black Fortress Dungeon Tile and Furniture Pack (#MGKDS21-1) 1 $25.00
Cart Subtotal $298.00
Shipping $25.00 via Standard Shipping
Order Discount -$95.00
Order Total $228.00 (Includes $0.00 Tax)
OK... so it looks like I went sweet spot x2, so I'll be getting one of Carton A and one of Carton B. Therin lay my confusion.
On the KS comments forum one backer with a Carton A and a Carton B setup like yours got two Carton A plus extras, and missed out on the specifics from Carton B. Mantic replied and promised to fix.
You may or may not have the same problem.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I took notes when I ordered and kept a .txt file on my computer with it so I can reference.
Dungeon Master x1
Warlord of Galahir x1
Infernal Crypts x1
Tyrant of Halpi x1
Black Fortress x1
Resin wound and bones pile counters x1
$210
For DS, I only ordered a bunch of add ons. I have heard nothing and received nothing. For KOW2, I ordered a bunch of plastics, as well as Blaine on raptor. I have received nothing and heard nothing.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: For DS, I only ordered a bunch of add ons. I have heard nothing and received nothing. For KOW2, I ordered a bunch of plastics, as well as Blaine on raptor. I have received nothing and heard nothing.
When a KS turns up I sit there in a pile of stuff and think "next time I'll document what I pledged for or at least file the email in a sensible place so I can actually check of what I have vs what I wanted".
mattjgilbert wrote: When a KS turns up I sit there in a pile of stuff and think "next time I'll document what I pledged for or at least file the email in a sensible place so I can actually check of what I have vs what I wanted".
Repeat ad infinitum.
I never learn.
I have a spreadsheet for each KS I've backed. Still took 7 hours to do DBO, KoW and DZ................
Well bob which plastics did you order? I think the ones that were preexisting when the kickstarter was running should certainly have come, but if you pledged for Niads, Salamanders, the Abyssal stuff, anything newly created during the kickstarter... I believe that's all still in development and we're all still waiting for that. But your dungeon saga stuff, if only add-ons, should be arriving from the UK via their royal mail, they've just recently started sending stuff out. Nothing from DS is considered late till December 7th, supposedly.
mattjgilbert wrote: When a KS turns up I sit there in a pile of stuff and think "next time I'll document what I pledged for or at least file the email in a sensible place so I can actually check of what I have vs what I wanted".
Repeat ad infinitum.
I never learn.
I have a spreadsheet for each KS I've backed. Still took 7 hours to do DBO, KoW and DZ................
A text list is enough, then its seven minutes.
I also do wish lists, purchase plans etc on the same document folder. It contains everything from my old AT-43 purchase plan to things that get on my buy list for my 40K armies to boardgames to kickstarters etc. Its not even qa chore because its window shopping in a way, I have to plan ahead what I can afford and there are too many goodies to choose from.
mattjgilbert wrote: When a KS turns up I sit there in a pile of stuff and think "next time I'll document what I pledged for or at least file the email in a sensible place so I can actually check of what I have vs what I wanted".
Repeat ad infinitum.
I never learn.
I have a spreadsheet for each KS I've backed. Still took 7 hours to do DBO, KoW and DZ................
Cost £210
free shipping, Uk send point no customs.
Later.....
addendum, as all three expansions already purchased I will get a special presentation box.
Done
The above took less than four minutes to do (the explanation is taking longer) and would recreate a file on a document wallet the files are often not small due to having to download images in .doc or .txt documents.
It told me everything I needed to know I have something similar on my hard disk, though you dont see the links you just see the pics. I might add notes etc as I did after Ronnies video about the book boxes.
I learned from this that the extra purchase made to go OVER $200 wasnt worth it, the hardback book is crap and thin and empty of its content with will not be e-delivered. Also from this thread I learned the resin counters are not enough, a main set of DS includes 24 bones piles tokens, so I could only replace half of the maximum usable amount with miniatures, which is no fething use frankly. Yet I might not be able to buy two sets because it was KS exclusive.
I'm assuming he meant it took forever to dig through the tiny unmarked bags checking each for missing parts and not so much typing anything out. Maybe?
The Companion book is 96 pages. Mine had a sheet in the front with page corrections written in where the proof reading missed adding them in (and seriously, does publishing software not have auto updating links to contents?).
GrimDork wrote: Well bob which plastics did you order? I think the ones that were preexisting when the kickstarter was running should certainly have come, but if you pledged for Niads, Salamanders, the Abyssal stuff, anything newly created during the kickstarter... I believe that's all still in development and we're all still waiting for that. But your dungeon saga stuff, if only add-ons, should be arriving from the UK via their royal mail, they've just recently started sending stuff out. Nothing from DS is considered late till December 7th, supposedly.
I ordered all new plastics. I have all the old ones except for the goblins.
I'll send out an email at the end of the month asking what's up. It might take them another month to reply to me if history has taught me anything.
Reposting from my kickstarter comment for anyone correcting the page number errors in their companion book.
Just been through the adventurers companion adding in the page references.
In addition to the ones listed on the sheet there are also the following errors:
+P13: movement is on page 18, not 12 as listed
+P23: damage is on page 24, not 22 as listed
+P27: there is an [Insert Picture] text in one of the paragraphs
+P42: Slyph information paragraph is actually the Salamander information paragraph.
+P77: an "entertaining" joke about people maybe noticing two step 1's.
Not particularly funny given that as well as the big list of page replacements included in the hardback book I managed to spot the above just quickly skimming through
Bolognesus wrote: What's the current email address at Mantic to actually get anything done? I still don't have a single thing to show for my KoW pledge either.
It's a long process, but I've stirred the pot enough with my comments on the KS page and have gotten a reply there. Squeaky wheels getting greased and all. The email I got yesterday from Steve was from notification@kickstarter.com if that helps.
Bolognesus wrote: What's the current email address at Mantic to actually get anything done? I still don't have a single thing to show for my KoW pledge either.
It's a long process, but I've stirred the pot enough with my comments on the KS page and have gotten a reply there. Squeaky wheels getting greased and all. The email I got yesterday from Steve was from notification@kickstarter.com if that helps.
That's the KS message email address probably better to go straight to the source dave@manticgames.com is the email address on the missing item DS forms.
Bolognesus wrote: What's the current email address at Mantic to actually get anything done? I still don't have a single thing to show for my KoW pledge either.
It's a long process, but I've stirred the pot enough with my comments on the KS page and have gotten a reply there. Squeaky wheels getting greased and all. The email I got yesterday from Steve was from notification@kickstarter.com if that helps.
That's the KS message email address probably better to go straight to the source dave@manticgames.com is the email address on the missing item DS forms.
Thanks, email sent. Curious to see how much longer this is going to take.
Mines arrived only had a quick look at it before work. All appears to be present and correct. The base game and expansions look good but a few of the minis will need hot water treatment and rebasing as they are standing with one foot off the base. I have no intention of painting DS but I at least want the miniatures to look right.
The acrylic counters are awful, a waste of money which I only added to bring me over $200 but the hardback rulebook wasn't worth the extra cost there are a lot of mistakes in it as can be seen by the errata sheet they put in it. The slip case for the 3 expansions looks cheap and poorly printed but the book box itself is fine. I think there was a lot of corners cut on the extras as they won't make it to retail anyway.
The dragon is perfectly fine for me as a board game piece. Some of the boss minis are much smaller than I expected.
Gotta say it's disappointing hearing about corners being cut, especially considering the delay on this game and the push to get it all sorted out for retail.
I was also afraid the acrylics would end up blah. Sad to hear. I guess I'll have to see just how bad mine look whenever they show up.
The archdemon Valindor fights isnt paerticularly big, his silhouette on the KS made him seem bigger. But we did see relative scale and preview images so this is no surprise.
I dont mind a small version Balrog equivalent. Tolkiens Balrogs were about ten foot tall and would appear to us to be enlarged chaos warriors, yet they took care of business. In fact the first (albeit crap) video Balrog was about the size. No one minds the enlarged Balrog from the Fellowship of the Ring, and the large scale Bloodthirster or Pit Fiend/Balor imagery, its seems to fit better for an uber monster.
Mantic however are mre moderately proportioned with their archdemon, I dont mind. They are powerful spirits effectively demigods in same cases, so they can be powerful out of porportion to their size, just as vampires and high level heroes are.
The only thing I don't like about the Mantic archdemon are the stubby wings. It has a fallen angel theme going which I like, but the wings look like tree trunks, and only make sense if the wings were truly massive. When I get mine I might rewing. Got to get it first.
As far as Baels size goes, he isnt all that small. Hed still be about twice as tall as a human standing up, but since hes crouching... his face is about at head height.
Da Boss wrote: I just found out that my Carton B arrived in my parents house today! But no sign of Carton A yet, which seems weird. I hope nothing happened to it!
Did you order more than 1 set? You get Carton A if you didn't get all 3 expansions or Carton B if you did but not both, I got Carton B which has the Game, Valandor and the 3 expansions in a KS exclusive box. There was separate brown box on top with my extra paid for bits that are not part of carton B.
Carton A is a single package that includes:
Dungeon Master pledge. Pure and simple.
Carton B is a single package that includes:
Dungeon Master Pledge
The Warlord of Galahir Expansion
Infernal Crypts Expansion
The Tyrant of Halpi Expansion
Upgraded Adventurer’s Companion Collector’s Edition Hardback Rulebook
Free Kickstarter Exclusive ‘Book Box’
A number of people bought everything for a carton B yet added a second Dungeon Master pledge because its a very good deal for the price on contents.
I suspect the second core boxset plus stretchgoals will in many cases be for RPG fuel and stripped down for D&D in short order.
I considered it myself then decided to double purpose the set I have already pledged for. I might regret that, as deals for minis go the DS Dungeon Master core pledge is up with Bones 1 for value for money on miniatures delivered.
So... I got a good portion of my pledge but for some reason my Dungeon Saga main game isn't on my in voice or in my package, anyone else encounter this problem?.
Commissar-Danno wrote: So... I got a good portion of my pledge but for some reason my Dungeon Saga main game isn't on my in voice or in my package, anyone else encounter this problem?.
The Elf is the KS exclusive Keldan and is part of the Dungeon Master pledge. I think its packed outside the main game as it was manufactured elsewhere and then added to the shipping box at packing time.
Commissar-Danno wrote: So... I got a good portion of my pledge but for some reason my Dungeon Saga main game isn't on my in voice or in my package, anyone else encounter this problem?.
The Elf is the KS exclusive Keldan and is part of the Dungeon Master pledge. I think its packed outside the main game as it was manufactured elsewhere and then added to the shipping box at packing time.
I changed my delivery address a while back and was waiting for my pledge to arrive at my parental home, where I am spending an increasing amount of time looking after my elderly father.
Today I returned to that address to spend a month with my father. I was going to take the three o clock train but mislaid the keys to my mobility scooter and missed that. Just as I was leaving and getting on said scooter the door bell rang.
"Delivery".
What could it be? It was Carton B. Ok. Now what. I wont be there for four weeks and have no gaming community at this address of note, and Mantic had already confirmed the redelivery.
I was quite the dilemma, I held the weighty box in my hands and asked myself should I accept delivery. I tried placing it on the scooter, it couldn't be safely transported. So I rejected delivery on account of the address being wrong. It will now follow me in 5 to 7 days,
Had I not mislaid my keys it would have been failed delivery, with attempted redelivery at an unoccupied address a hundred miles away from where I need it delivered.
Mantic might not be happy to find out I rejected a delivery I held in my hands, but a wrong address is a wrong address, and I have no easy means of re-transporting it where it is supposed to go without a car.
I got what I think is Carton B today. Opened up the "Infernal Crypts" pack to see.. well, not retail packaging, as I've gotten used to from CMoN et al, but the components in some baggies chucked into the box. How are the figures, you ask?
Aside from being reeeally small (will Mantic ever pick a scale and stick with it?) The figures are Squashed and mangled and twisted - either from their journey or from being rush-assembled in the factory. More than half of the models are going to need some hot water or more just to get them to the point of being unpainted boardgame figures.
You see, one of the lovely things about retail packaging is that it tends to protect the content inside. CMoN provides lovely plastic trays even for their KS exclusive models so they don't get mangled in transit, even when they come in a pizza box. I wonder if Mantic will ever fething learn?
Mantic... just makes you tired of it all.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well, there's a couple of broken figures, and most messed up of all, there was nothing but the dragon and tiles inside the dragon pack. They did supply the Black Fortress pack that I ordered, and the box is even labelled so. So...
I'm missing the cards, furniture and doors from Tyrant of Halpi pack.
Despite it all, had a good game this evening with friends.
Heroes will very rarely win on the first play through. This is deliberate.
But it does make you feel a bit evil.
Commissar-Danno wrote: Well is this common? I got the adventurers companion but every time it references a page it instead says XXX instead of the page number
Common in the real universe....No.
Common for Mantic......Yes
They did print an errata sheet for you though, should be in your book or in the box.
Commissar-Danno wrote: Well is this common? I got the adventurers companion but every time it references a page it instead says XXX instead of the page number
See my post a couple of pages ago for some extra errors that are not listed on the sheet Mantic should have provided with corrections.
Copied below:
P13: movement is on page 18, not 12 as listed
+P23: damage is on page 24, not 22 as listed
+P27: there is an [Insert Picture] text in one of the paragraphs
+P42: Slyph information paragraph is actually the Salamander information paragraph.
Bah, the YM Utmost is *still* chilling out around Japan. I know it's a cool place but c'mon fella.
I'm liable to get my black fortress add-on a month or better before the carton B, assuming no miss-haps and not being at the bottom of the picking order as can sometimes happen.
I think I'm finally starting to burn out on kickstarters a bit. With Warpath done and gone and only a marginal interest in KoW type stuff, the only way Mantic is getting me back next year is with that supposed post-apoc licensed product, and nothing else is on my radar. Wallet is somewhat relieved.
Azazelx wrote: Probably a month or so yet till I get my actual game. How does it play, and what are the co-op rules like? That's where the money is for my group.
Filter my posts, I was a playtester, very high opinion of it, and not out of any self importance.
Co-op is very good, it is the soul of the game. Optimal with two hero players and one overlord, but can be played very easily with more.
The one thing to say is regardless if players, get them to say "my turn is over" be cause it's very very hard to jump in with Interrupt if your group is all excited and just flows to the next hero. You know how focused gamers get in RPG sessions, very similar.
So "I interrupt-" after someone has started declaring without pause for the next character is debatable who gets right of way.
GrimDork wrote: Good to hear it, take pictures if you get bored
Here you go.
Nothing seems broken. A few minis have fallen off their base though, but that's no biggy. A lot could do with a hot water dunk but I'd probably be doing that anyway.
Buttery Commissar wrote: Anyone else get a random resin elf in their box?
I didn't get KS emails so I don't know what this is.
Keldan.
See him on the bottom row of the Dungeon Master S100 pledge.
There is to my knowledge no stat card for him. Or at least I didnt see any on any of the unboxings. He wont be part of any official expansion as he is KS exclusive. However Matnic went as far as to include a resin miniature, but not as far as to print a card for him to add into games. Perhaps will will be part of the e-content. I would be happier to see an official stat card rather than a printout or written onto the pad,
They should have done more with Logan and Hordin & Gnasher also. The two latter are plastic miniatures, there is a heavy outlay making tools for them, so they should have in game function. I don't see the point of KS exclusive plastics, resin yes as the tools are cheap, but if you make a plastic kit it pays to keep making it. I dont see any reason why Mantic couldnt add a halfling warrior as a hero to a future expansion, except that they have now listed it as exclusive.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Buttery Commissar wrote: Despite it all, had a good game this evening with friends.
Heroes will very rarely win on the first play through. This is deliberate.
But it does make you feel a bit evil.
I look at that dungeon layout and I hear Admiral Akhbar in my head.
First turn, archer stands on the bone pile and shoots, warriors advance as far as possible, engage first undead. Wizard advances far and finishes off.
Head through double doors, avoid side doors, stay together clear next room and then head south.
Commissar-Danno wrote: Well is this common? I got the adventurers companion but every time it references a page it instead says XXX instead of the page number
See my post a couple of pages ago for some extra errors that are not listed on the sheet Mantic should have provided with corrections.
Copied below:
P13: movement is on page 18, not 12 as listed
+P23: damage is on page 24, not 22 as listed
+P27: there is an [Insert Picture] text in one of the paragraphs
+P42: Slyph information paragraph is actually the Salamander information paragraph.
What page is that on? I didn't get the sheet in the box.
Us backers probably won't even see it on time as they said as the ship is still near Japan. Needs to cross the pacific without Godzilla smashing it and then go through the port, get transferred to the shipping company and get shipped. I'm hoping for before thanksgiving, but I think uncharted empires may be out before it arrives.
Commissar-Danno wrote: Well is this common? I got the adventurers companion but every time it references a page it instead says XXX instead of the page number
See my post a couple of pages ago for some extra errors that are not listed on the sheet Mantic should have provided with corrections.
Copied below:
P13: movement is on page 18, not 12 as listed
+P23: damage is on page 24, not 22 as listed
+P27: there is an [Insert Picture] text in one of the paragraphs
+P42: Slyph information paragraph is actually the Salamander information paragraph.
What page is that on? I didn't get the sheet in the box.
Was loose in the adventurers companion hardback book.
No black fortress add-on in it though, which is only marginally annoying as I will be pretty occupied with all the other shiny stuff!
The resin minis are each and all stunning. Probably the best I have seen done by Mantic so far.
The normal minis are incredibly variable, I think. Some are great, others pretty meh, with semi-molten details (faces, scales, etc are obviously the worst offenders. in particularly the dragon looks like half his back has seen a candle from too close).
But the hardback book is taking the p**s. I mean, really? it's super slim, and every single page has at least one serious mistake on it. Has anyone EVER read this?
I really like what Mantic do and want them to succeed but their general lack of quality control and ability to make the most elementary of mistakes makes them quite difficult to support. It is usually the early adopters that help fund the games that get the majority of the issues to deal with.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: I really like what Mantic do and want them to succeed but their general lack of quality control and ability to make the most elementary of mistakes makes them quite difficult to support. It is usually the early adopters that help fund the games that get the majority of the issues to deal with.
That is not entirely fair, and I will explain why.
The packages containing failed deliveries are sealed in the factory in China. The factory doesn't belong to Mantic and as with a lot of outsourced materials doesnt care at all if they do a half arsed job.
Mantic are responsible for some other failures though, notably the printing farce.
The printing thing really is embarrassing, there's not much excuse for it.
Sorry to hear about people getting mashed up/bend minis and stuff. That really sucks.
I'm hopeful this game will be successful and really live up to my memories of playing Heroquest and so on as a kid,
But poor production quality could become another millstone around Mantic's neck.
I wonder if it's all a symptom of trying to do too much too fast - releasing multiple games across multiple categories all within a short space of time must mean they are constantly in crunch mode, and that's when mistakes can slip through. When you look at the diversity of their output it is impressive, but it's always got some flaws that stop it from being a runaway success like something like Zombicide.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: I really like what Mantic do and want them to succeed but their general lack of quality control and ability to make the most elementary of mistakes makes them quite difficult to support. It is usually the early adopters that help fund the games that get the majority of the issues to deal with.
That is not entirely fair, and I will explain why.
The packages containing failed deliveries are sealed in the factory in China. The factory doesn't belong to Mantic and as with a lot of outsourced materials doesnt care at all if they do a half arsed job.
Mantic are responsible for some other failures though, notably the printing farce.
I guess that is kind of fair, but If I were Ronnie however "Chinese Factory X" behaves it is ultimately Mantic's name, and reputation, on the box. If it is the same factory that has been responsible for other issues maybe it is time to change producer or the contract they have.
The Kickstarter comments are a litany of people with missing pieces (such as a dragon wing going awol), additional local taxes and calls of "bait and switch" over pieces such as the resin counters. Admittedly KS comments sections are usually more of a moaners charter rather than a place used to give positive feedback, so it may be misleading as to overall feelings about the game. Hopefully the game itself is strong enough to overcome these issues.
I am considering making a thread on the Mantic forums about the hardback book and one or two other KS issues.
Missing pieces don't need any threads beyond reporting for correction, those things happen in distributions at this scale.
My main beef is twofold.
1. The resin bone piles.
You get 12, the set has 24 counters. Therefore it needs 24 counters, so if you have a resin bone pile set you wont have enough for all scenarios. I would have bought 24 if it needed 24, but as they are KS exclusive you cant anymore. Secondly they don't look anything like the originals, which were level and square, so they fit on squares and things can fit over them. Pics I have seen of the resin counters make them larger than the squares, and thus hard to base together.
I wish they had stuck with what they had orginally promised us.
Mantic can fix this by: Allowing backers to buy an extra 12 resin bone tiles to make the set, post Kickstarter. It would make sense to increase the wound counter totals from 16 to 25. This would allow 4 for each hero and 9 for the dragon. Which is the most you will need in a single game.
I would settle for an extra set at $10. Though I would want to check the counters first and see if they are indeed large splats that would get in the way of adjoining squares.
2. I pledged over $200 in order to get the free hardback book. I would have pledged $175 without the free hardback book offer, on the base pledge plus three expansions. And got Carton B (which ironically would have included it). I bought Black Fortress and resin counters mainly to unlock the book.
The images of which showed a substantial hardback book possibly worth $30. The crap we get is not worth $30 even if it wasn't full of typos, page X and mislabeled contents. It doesn't contain half of what we were promised and providing it later by e-document doesn't cut it.
This issue does matter as I am not alone in deliberately upping my order to include it, and many backers pledged exactly £200 or just over to do so. Possibly indicating they were pledging more than they otherwise would.
Mantic can fix this by: Having a penitent edition of the Collectors Edition hardback.
Filled with all the things the Hardback should have, and post any errata from the first few months of play. Mantic could sell this normally, but backers should get a free copy in exchange for trading in the hardback leaflet 'Book of Noob' we actually got.
I received a PM just now about how Mantic might acrus too many costs replacing the Hardback Books.
It is my suggestion they do not try. they make and sell a hardback book, about March would be good as any bugs and imbalanced scenarios will have come to the fore by then, The book can fix anything that needs fixing, and possibly contain scenarios for all the expansions etc.
Backers who are unsatisfied with their hardback leaflets can attend and Mantic venue where they have a stand with their old collectors edition hardback and can trade it in for a new one. $30 to anyone else.
Compel wrote: I've done my rebending and got my models together now.
Almost all. One of your zombies didn't get the memo.
Or has a bad case of the funk and likes to boogie down.
Nice photoshot though. Enough to make a non-backer kick themselves jealous methinks.
I like the idea of seeing a 1.5 hardback offered up to backers somewhere down the line, but seeing as how it won't be until God knows when the boxes even arrive in the US, it's just more time for us to stew over things.
I don't know if I would have pledged as much knowing the book would turn out the way it did.
I had to go buy some Bones scenery while I wait for all my plastic pieces to stop hanging out around Japan.
My take:
Glue one of those books to its lectern. So you have lecterns with and without. Glue a second on a bookshelf to variate them. Keep the third loose.
Orlanth wrote: I look at that dungeon layout and I hear Admiral Akhbar in my head.
First turn, archer stands on the bone pile and shoots, warriors advance as far as possible, engage first undead. Wizard advances far and finishes off.
Head through double doors, avoid side doors, stay together clear next room and then head south.
There are
Spoiler:
Dwarf Revenants and a Zombie Troll
in this map.
It's also an 11 turn scenario with several 3/3 doors, and a 4/4... Not the hardest, but certainly run run run.
We had it explained that these tighter levels are designed to be played much like videogames, you learn and learn and beat it after 3-4 attempts.
Unfortunately we're yet to meet anyone who's beaten Well Met (first full adventure) when facing a competent Overlord. I've run it four times and I'm not a well organised villain. It's come down to time 3/4 times and once down to a new player not keeping the elf safe.
I love this game so much, I'm not even sad at rerunning it. Nor are the players - I ask every time if they want to skip it, but they want to try beat it again.
At Christmas I am going to take it to play with my parents, they aren't gamers. Mum played AD&D a lot, that's about it. Dad likes Yahtzee.
I really really regret not going for the KS dice upgrades and markers. If anyone picked up a spare set just to up their pledge, drop me a line. We've got a spare Dragon expansion at this end and could maybe work something out, or I'd happily pay.
My only real woe is my book box is badly crumpled on all four "cover" corners, and has glue spilled down the back. Also my rule book is missing a corner and looks like it was nibbled by a mouse. I'm sure when it's quieter I could get these fixed.
So, the adventurers companion (and the hardback?) is unfortunally riddled with errors it seems. Mainly every page reference just says XXX and there's some entry that's been replaced with another etc.
For those of you who has the game. Is the basic rulebooks faulty as well or is just the companion/hardback?
I've been looking forward to getting a box of the main game but would hesitate buying a faulty product. I'm in no hurry to get the companion though so I have no problem waiting for another print.
Just the companion that I've seen so far. Everything else looks fine to me
The acrylic counters are ok. - Nowhere near as good as the dreadball ones, but you can make out the images on the ones that have images, unlike Deadzone.
They're also far, far better than the "Early learning center" style plastic of the Kings of War ones.
One thing though, there's a lot of kind of meaningless shapes in them.
Overall, it's a case of, "I'm not angry I got them, but if I saw them again, I wouldn't buy them."
So it's the book with the extra rules and missions (like from the old DKH games and what not) that has the errors? I guess that's a better place than in the main rulebook.
Ahh. Well typos are lame as hell and I do not approve. However much I like mantic, DS is something that could be a flagship product selling in big box stores and so on... Shabby shoddy nonsense, can not possibly cost that much to hire a proofreader or three to get these things before they hit the wild.
Oh well. Still looking forward to the thing with the plethora of extra missions , to read through them if not likely to play them all.
Orlanth wrote: The Companion is a Kickstarter special item, so retail purchasers wont get offered it.
Just as well really.
Really? It's referred to in the rulebook, I thought?
Something about symbols on the spell cards are expanded on inside it.
I might be thinking of something else.
The Adventurer's companion will be availible for retail. It's up for preorder now: http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/dungeon-saga.html (Though I imagine it'll sell rather poor until they make a new print which fixes the mistakes). Although since the KS backers have gotten a Hardback and the retail version is a softback, there might have been different prints and a chance to correct the softback version?
The KS exclusive book is the Dungeon Journal (see Compel's post).
Got the softback (didnt feel like buying more than two expansions... IC just didnt look terribly interesting), the errors are the same in both books. Theyre really going to regret sending it off to print... :/
wonder if i shoot them an email requesting to cancel my order what would happen......
I mean it's not like are delivering quality with the order, plus they hate me already. Wouldn't matter, my order would probably arrive before they got to the email.
Got my non carton B add ons today. Just the black fortress tiles and plastic scenery. Oh and the dice bag.
I need to get the tile set out and look it over, anyone want photos?
Dice bag is a joke. Probably the thinnest cheapest specimen I've encountered. The lettering literally flakes off at the slightest touch. It's pretty, but that's all it's got going for it. I will probably hang it from a nail as a decoration as even cinching the bag will probably ruin the lettering. I didn't expect the moon for $5, but this is just silly. It has probably turned me off of ordering the Mantic tape measure from warpath, and I was kind of excited to have one.
Generous always, time to do anything about it... occasionally at best!
But today you are in luck, kind of, as I managed to snap a few hasty photos. Sadly, the fluorescent lighting in my game room makes a nasty glare on the tiles.
Photos first and then some thoughts if time, spoilering since 7 photos:
Spoiler:
Used every tile and all of the furniture and doors save one (daughter stole it!)
So the card tiles seem thick enough to me, right as thick as battle systems card. However. They're not as dense or hard as battle systems tiles so they're probably not nearly as hard-wearing. I'm still pretty sure if you go over the edges with superglue (probably a good recommendation for any kind of card stuff like this for longevity) that the tiles will do just fine. The clips... some of them seemed pretty good others didn't seem like they had the tolerance right and were too loose. I didn't use the clips when I did the layout in the photos to save time. I have a feeling that any clips that end up being too wide for proper use can be sorted by applying a layer of glue (super, or maybe even PVA/tacky glue or whatever) or two to the inside of the tile-gripping surface, to increase the thickness. One or two coats maybe, the loose ones were only just loose, not terribly so. Obviously let those dry before you use them again
On the design. Comparing it to something like battle systems (apples and oranges as its flat vs 3D, but both come on A4 sheets and are card terrain so kind of germane) I think the art and layout fall short. For one thing, the tiles are double sided which is great... if they didn't print exactly the same art on the reverse side. I feel that this is a massive wasted opportunity and they could have totally made these (and the main game set which is probably the same way, at least at a guess) TWICE as versatile. It wouldn't have cost twice as much either, I don't think, as the tooling for the cuts and stuff wouldn't change, they'd just have to pay for more art and then there'd be a step in the process where they have to finagle the sheets to do the other side or something... but yeah little disappointed. Still perfectly serviceable, but definitely not top of the line. There are also a lot of repeated tiles, only a couple three different art types for the smallest most numerous pieces, a bit of a drag but if you space things out cleverly, it doesn't get *too* samey.
The set definitely looks black. And fortressy. I mean, there are only one or two clean (of bodies) tile arts in the whole set. Some tiles have several corpses, others have at least one packed into the corner. I think you'd have to make a movement test to not trip over them, throughout the entire dungeon
Ahh. I wonder then. Maybe black fortress isn't going to reach retail so they skimped on it. If the main set is double sided then I'm happier. I still think it was probably worth the $25 with only one texture, should vastly increase the variability of the dungeon layouts.
i was rather surprised to have the valendor expansion show up in the mail today
based on the shape his spear was in, its clearly made out of a pool noodle, larp style
We've played roughly ten scenarios with my pieces, and only one tile has started showing any wear.
Storing them back in the book box is a sod. I press them into the sheets they come from, and slide 3-4 of those into a plastic bag.
greenskin lynn wrote: i was rather surprised to have the valendor expansion show up in the mail today
based on the shape his spear was in, its clearly made out of a pool noodle, larp style
Valindor doesnt use a spear anymore, he uses a whip with a knife blade on the end.
Gotta say I was hoping for better quality on the tiles and also better artwork on the Black Fortress tiles. Shame about them not being properly double sided too.
With the extra dungeon furniture and so on, it's still worth 25 dollars but not as good value as I hoped.
One thing I'm not a huge fan of versatility wise with the DS tiles (including my DKH set) is the number of one square wide passages. If I want to use the tiles for RPGs (which I do), then these passages are not super practical or fun to play. But I guess it's required for the way the game plays, or something.
Played the intro missions and the first three real missions. Really liking the game - ideal level of complexity to get my girlfriend interested in this tabletop/boardgame hybrid.
One question: am I missing a set of floor tiles or does the artwork shown for the tiles in the Questbook just not match up with what is delivered? E.g., I have an appropriately sized floor piece for the large central piece shown for mission 2 ("Into the Depths"), the 3x6 piece in the middle, but it has a different print on both sides. Similarly for a couple of other tiles..
My carton B arrived today. I have to pay ￥2,500 in duties or something, but I kind of expect that at this point. I won't be able to open it for several days, sadly, but at least it's here.
Azazelx wrote: Probably a month or so yet till I get my actual game. How does it play, and what are the co-op rules like? That's where the money is for my group.
Filter my posts, I was a playtester, very high opinion of it, and not out of any self importance.
Co-op is very good, it is the soul of the game. Optimal with two hero players and one overlord, but can be played very easily with more.
The one thing to say is regardless if players, get them to say "my turn is over" be cause it's very very hard to jump in with Interrupt if your group is all excited and just flows to the next hero. You know how focused gamers get in RPG sessions, very similar.
So "I interrupt-" after someone has started declaring without pause for the next character is debatable who gets right of way.
I mean non-GM co-op. All players playing against "the game" - such as a game like Zombicide.
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Orlanth wrote: I received a PM just now about how Mantic might acrus too many costs replacing the Hardback Books.
It is my suggestion they do not try. they make and sell a hardback book, about March would be good as any bugs and imbalanced scenarios will have come to the fore by then, The book can fix anything that needs fixing, and possibly contain scenarios for all the expansions etc.
Backers who are unsatisfied with their hardback leaflets can attend and Mantic venue where they have a stand with their old collectors edition hardback and can trade it in for a new one. $30 to anyone else.
I'm with you until the last line. Which is great if you're a local backer, and less so if you're somewhere else in the world.
Yep. Trading stuff in is great if you have a local store (so GW could easily do something like this), but Mantic? Not a chance. Its hard enough finding retailers as it is...
I was honestly looking forward to something akin to the Mars Attacks book, just better organized- that is, having ALL the rules and missions in one place, but actually but into some sort of cohesive order rather than one game manual after another. The whole point of the hardback was to sell us one giant be-all, end- all, comprehensive rulebook, right?
Am I going to have to worry that the new Deadzone book is going to be missing a large chunk of rules and missions, only to have to download a good chunk of them since they rushed things out? I hope not.
Much as I want to really like Mantic, sometimes they do things that really get on my nerves.
I've not got mine yet, I got an email from Mantic last night telling me that their shipping company won't send it to me because I have a PO Box (standard practice out here, it's how the postal system works)
After a chain of emails discussing options, Mantic are going to use a courier at their own expense to get my stuff to me.
Can't complain about that level of customer service.
looking forward to getting it.
Seems to be a common issue mine are missing as well and aren't listed on the packing slip others reported the same. I sent a missing parts form for them
Looking through it, the only thing out of place is that I got two of the Abyssal Lord character and no Orc Warlord. A bit annoying but not the end of the world considering my collection of Fantasy Orcs is sufficient to provide a stand in. I'll contact Mantic about it in December anyhow, just for the sake of it. One of my zombie trolls was also missing a head but that's a simple conversion to have a headless zombie troll.
Considering the size of the order, I'm not too bothered. When I got my D'n'D boardgame from Wizards I had a dupe of the elf wizard and no dwarf cleric, so I don't think these kind of packing issues are a Mantic only thing.
The quality of the miniatures is pretty decent - better than most other board game fantasy pieces. Better than Descent or D'n'D board games for sure. I will keep the dungeon bases even though it bugs me that they're the wrong size for KOW, because they look cool. The Dragon is the most disappointing piece actually, as he comes with an undetailed base and some of his scale detail is soft. Still a perfectly adequate board game piece but not at all Wargaming standard. The Salamander and Naiad are nice enough to have me eagerly anticipating the hard plastics that are coming out sometime in the next few months.
The components are good enough too. Artwork is generally pretty nice, the books are well illustrated and clear with nice diagrams and so on. The cardstock is a little thinner than in the Wizards board games but not by much, and it looks pretty robust. It's definitely a lot better quality than the Dwarf King's Hold tiles, which were far too thin. It's also got a good finish on it which should keep the cardboard together after use pretty well. I think the only component I'm unhappy with are the flimsy character sheets, but they are also provided online and in the Adventurers Companion so it's not too bad.
I actually love the black fortress tiles, the celtic swirls and so on are right up my alley so I'm chuffed with that.
The Adventurers companion looks to provide everything that was promised, perhaps in a slightly bare bones form, but AI play and co-op play are both included along with a bestiary. The bestiary doesn't have as much weird and wonderful monsters in it as I hoped for, but the system is simple enough that improvising your own would not be hard and sheets are provided for that. The create your own adventurer rules are really cool though, and I think that could be a fun little game in itself. Especially given the same system can be used for designing Bosses, so the Overlord gets a look in too.
The KS exclusive Dungeon Journal is pretty nice too, adding a bunch of extra missions and all the DKH missions to the game. It's good to have them all collected in one place in case I ever feel like playing them.
Hmmm, anything else...oh, I friggen love the Dungeon Furniture, I hope Mantic continue to add to this range.
There's more game here than I will get through in a long time, and enough provided that I can make my own adventures or have random adventures even if I do. This is a really solid purchase. I would say that 6 missions per expansion is maybe a little low, but given I have 4 expansions plus the base game, that's still around 30 missions without going near the extra Dungeon Journal missions or design your own stuff.
Yeah the dungeon furniture is pretty fancy, I'm glad to be down for 2-3 sets.
Sounds like more missions than imperial assault which seems fairly comparable. Thanks for the write up. Gonna go see if the Utmost is still lurking around Japan...
@Da Boss Agrre there is a lot of goodness here - despite the mass waves of negativity over on the KS boards. It is worth noting that we are due more missions and set adventures ,including the two digital books.
Fair to say the AC typos are a pain but easily fixed and echo that the hardback bookdoes not liv eup to its billing - albeit it was not a full compendium like the mars Attacks books. I would expect mantic would plan to release that compendium next year and this would include the contents of the AC book (revised) now plus the released adventure packs or something like that.
PLayed a fair number of games this week and the deceptively simple mechanics make it a game easy to pick up with a surprising amount of tactical choice
To be honest, I would rather have waited a few extra months rather than get less physical product and more errors. I backed this kickstarter for the expansions etc as I wanted everything at once, in one set of game packaging, with one set of books etc... I absolutely hate digital products for rules and expansions. I am not even a fan of printouts. I want all those in the main book like they were supposed to be
I am really trying hard to like Mantic, but the quantity of unforced errors and own goals is kind of hard to fathom.
Mantic wanted to ship, so they can sell the game. This required shipping to backers first.
Errors were made, but by and large the project went ahead very well considering how ambitious it was. A lot of stretched Kickstarters dont resolve themselves properly, Mantic deliverd on all the core items and most of the peripherals.
The hardback book sucks, the bonus counters and resin bone piles suck. Thats about it, the rest is excellent.
Except it's missing some of the scenarios that were promised, and the packing once again is atrocious with missing doors and furniture, but their service is second to something....just not sure what.
Edit: looks like the US ship is docked in port, so now to ship to their distributor and then out to us.
Wait what? Which link are you following Theo? The one I've been looking at keeps saying it's off the coast of Japan. The UM Utmost or whatever that they linked?
On the plus side, I think the distribution center is supposed to be in Chicago this time around (or always, i dunno), and it's nice to be close to that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Huh yeah no kidding totally says its on our shores now (or really close /whatever), its been saying by Japan since they linked it, maybe my phone was doing something stupid.
Resin Salamander is pretty nice. Good sized figure.
Acrylic tokens aren't as bad as I had expected. Was afraid they'd be Deadzone levels on unreadableness.
Life counters are pretty meh, but they're serviceable, and while the bone counters aren't as cool as they could have been, they'll probably be alright if I paint them.
The plastic scenery with the black fortress is really nice. Been really impressed by all the scenery pieces Mantic has made actually. Between the stuff in the base game, the tyrant expansion, and the black fortress, I'll have plenty of home furnishings for any dungeon I build. Plus when those Dark Age forts from Menhir role out... hoo boy.
Going to have to compare the tile thickness to the older Mantic stuff. Just got a 75% off copy of Project Pandora in the mail to compare it to!
GrimDork wrote: Wait what? Which link are you following Theo? The one I've been looking at keeps saying it's off the coast of Japan. The UM Utmost or whatever that they linked?
On the plus side, I think the distribution center is supposed to be in Chicago this time around (or always, i dunno), and it's nice to be close to that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Huh yeah no kidding totally says its on our shores now (or really close /whatever), its been saying by Japan since they linked it, maybe my phone was doing something stupid.
I noticed on the link they gave us that it kept saying the same date (from before they posted the link), when I rechecked today it had the updated location and date. I had tried refreshing the screen, but I think it's due to the distance from the monitoring center like they said.
Just spent some time sorting my minis into baggies and popping out all the tiles and counters and putting them into zip locks. When it's all done, I've got 4 baggies of minis, the black fortress tiles plus a dragon and the adventurer's companion that just don't fit into the book box for the expansions! I'd need a third "book box" to actually hold all the stuff that comes with this game.
102 minis, three sets of doors, three sets of dungeon furniture, and a metric crapton of tiles, character sheets and counters, plus 5 scenario books, the adventurer's journal and the slightly lacklustre Adventurer's Companion for 200 dollars is a pretty damn good deal.
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