Something else that irks me: the Deathwing Knights are wielding aspergillums and censers. If you're going to step on the Ecclesiarchy's toes like that, at least give it to a unit whose unflinching devotion is to the Emperor, not the Chapter.
AlexHolker wrote: Something else that irks me: the Deathwing Knights are wielding aspergillums and censers. If you're going to step on the Ecclesiarchy's toes like that, at least give it to a unit whose unflinching devotion is to the Emperor, not the Chapter.
Let's be honest, have the Dark Angels ever been about anything other than their own thing?
AlexHolker wrote: Something else that irks me: the Deathwing Knights are wielding aspergillums and censers. If you're going to step on the Ecclesiarchy's toes like that, at least give it to a unit whose unflinching devotion is to the Emperor, not the Chapter.
Obviously you have never owned actual Dark Angels models, as the upgrade sprues from.which you build robed marines most definitely contains a lot of this sort of iconography, aswell shrine related things such as a backpack with a mini angels.shrine imbedded in.the back. It's quite common among there mediaeval/ native American undertones
Someone askes about terminator plasma cannon. An yes indeed They do get an underslung ( like the assault cannon ) plasma cannon. Just havet taken a pic off it.
In general i Think it's going to be a good dex. With som great background story. Like one of the planes ( can't remember which one ) is a fallen Angels hunter.
And this is only the first wave. Looking forward to see if theres Any unit options That's not released A's a miniature In the first wave or mentioned In the WD.
But i do hope that my Posting has made someones Christmas a little sweeter
Well, I was disappointed by the CSM wave but this one is even less exciting... Most of all, gotta hate the ridiculous/childish look on many of these models - seems like GW has this problem with any SM release lately. Except Dark Vengeance, huh.
The Storm Talon with wings is just that... I loved the Aquila lander, shame it had to undergo the chibi process.
The Land Speeders are just a big miss. Could still be salvaged by a good conversion though; getting rid of the front gunner (perhaps replacing him with an automatic weapon, rhino style), making a cockpit for the driver and the DJ as well... The bass cannons next to him seem fine, reminds me a lot of the Tau though. A turret might look cool there instead.
I think I'll pass on each of these new models (especially with those prices), perhaps except the bikes.
Also, we now have a Bass Cannon Land Speeder variant! LET THE BASS CANNON KICK IT!
£15 for a single HQ model? GW seem determined to milk character models for all they are worth. I can't blame them for doing so since people will only ever need 1 but still....
Finally we get robed Terminators, but as expected they are DA icons all over it which will make their use for other chapters very difficult. The weapons of the Knights are not my cup of tea, but I love the two-handed axe of the Command Squad terminator ...
It might just be the picture but the Land Speed Vengeance's forward gunner's ring looks like it's going to need to be shortened, or else he's going to get smacked in the back of the head with a plasma bolt.
ZombieDK wrote: Someone askes about terminator plasma cannon. An yes indeed They do get an underslung ( like the assault cannon ) plasma cannon. Just havet taken a pic off it.
In general i Think it's going to be a good dex. With som great background story. Like one of the planes ( can't remember which one ) is a fallen Angels hunter.
And this is only the first wave. Looking forward to see if theres Any unit options That's not released A's a miniature In the first wave or mentioned In the WD.
But i do hope that my Posting has made someones Christmas a little sweeter
Any chance there is anything in the WD regarding Ezkiel? Or how any of our Sc's have changed or will play out, aswell as what role do the knights fill? Would be greatly appreciative if you had any answers for any of these Zombie, and yes you made my Christmas that much better, my deathwing is happy
filbert wrote: £15 for a single HQ model? GW seem determined to milk character models for all they are worth. I can't blame them for doing so since people will only ever need 1 but still....
Bit too rich for me.
Pretty much sums it up for me as well. Once again I'll bang this drum, but if I were a chaos player, I'd be mad that once again, a sub-standard marine variant gets a new book lavished on it, but the Chaos release was everything crammed into one mediocre codex. If dark angels are worth a seperate book, then so are world eaters, thousand sons etc.
Some of the ideas posted on this site for a world eaters book were amazing, but will never see the light of day.
Instead, we get dodgy landspeeders and rip off HQ choices. £15? yeah right. And as for that new flyer, well it's pretty clear where the new version of 40k is heading. Shame really.
So now to even make dark angel pm's you have to get it online only from GW?
No words can describe the feels right now.
I know this always gets brought up but remember when 11 quid was just 1 pound short of getting 2 blisters of 3 model packs containing awesome stuff like stormvermin or uruk hai bezerkers, well now it can only get you 1 plastic guy. Oh how times have changed, how times have changed indeed Jeeves.
edit 2: M.Night Shyamalan twist: are these increasing prices a genius plan 10 years in the making that they are suddenly going to cut prices down to what they should be? What would sales be like when you find out your 23 quid tactical squad is now 15 from GW? It was all intended?
Robed terminators look gorgeous. I'll certainly pick up a box or three.
The flyer is the least crappy one to date and while still a little stubby it lacks preposterous chin-mounts and bubble dome turrets with bad fields of fire. It is basically a chibi A-10 and I am okay with that. Price is steep but they have sold me on it by virtue of it not actually sucking.
The Land Speeder makes me happy, it reminds me of the Rogue Trader deodorant-tank kit bash. It is silly and a bit implausible, but it has that funky over-the-top quality that I liked in 2nd Edition. It is a model that doesn't take itself seriously, and that is really the spirit of GRIMDARK ( ).
I love the Black Knights and will be grabbing them ASAP.
Belial is a bit static but not bad otherwise.
I like Asmodai and am glad he isn't Sapphon anymore.
The cover art of the codex is also really good. Nice to see a focus on a single character rather than the usual "a bunch of guys piling out of doors" style we have had since 3rd Edition. Though part of me wishes they had done a riff on the old Asmodai/Sapphon piece. But either way, I like the look of it.
Either way, kudos to GW for actually getting me excited about this release.
d-usa wrote: Didn't we have an interview with one of the GW guys that basically said that the minis get made first and then they are told to come up with rules for them?
You don't think they come up with the concept of what they are and how they fit in the universe first?
stormboy wrote: The guy in the back looks like a gunner for the two giant guns in the back.
Two Giants Guns in the back?
Sadly, the pictures are now gone via Imperial Marketing Directive 666, so I can't quite remember what you're talking about, but I though the two giant things in back were the engines?
I really can't get my head round that Landspeeder or its appeal.
The 'stretch' aspect, the dinky sticky-out turbine engines on the dinky sticky-out wings, the shine or huge plasma... 'thing' on the on back, the oddly positioned gunner and DJ... I don't feel it looks good, or that it looks 'Space Marine'.
stormboy wrote: The guy in the back looks like a gunner for the two giant guns in the back.
Two Giants Guns in the back?
Sadly, the pictures are now gone via Imperial Marketing Directive 666, so I can't quite remember what you're talking about, but I though the two giant things in back were the engines?
It's one of those fancy "dual kits".
One version has a big turret in the round cut-out section in the back.
stormboy wrote: The guy in the back looks like a gunner for the two giant guns in the back.
Two Giants Guns in the back?
Sadly, the pictures are now gone via Imperial Marketing Directive 666, so I can't quite remember what you're talking about, but I though the two giant things in back were the engines?
Google Land Speeder Vengeance, there's a model with it having two huge plasma... 'things' on the back.
stormboy wrote: The guy in the back looks like a gunner for the two giant guns in the back.
Two Giants Guns in the back?
Sadly, the pictures are now gone via Imperial Marketing Directive 666, so I can't quite remember what you're talking about, but I though the two giant things in back were the engines?
One of the versions has a shrine (I don't know why the third guy needs to be their for that?) but the other version looks like it has two plasma cannons with the third guy as the gunner.
I'm actually somewhat relived to hear Vetock did the codex. I would still happily play my Dark Angels if they were written by Ward, but by the Emperor I would grow tired of every discussion about them turning into a frothing-at-the-mouth argument about ______ and _______.
As for the actual models, I like most of them and can't wait to get my hands on them. I agree with pretty much everyone else regarding the Land Speeder Vengeance. It looks fething ridiculous!
MAJOR props to GW for selling that Terminator box at $50 US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow!
"Sir, I'm not sure, but my sarcasm detector may be getting a massive false positive here"
As for Vetock, I really hope he uses the same name style and somewhat over the top fluff as Ward and Kelly did in Space Wolves. Of course then people will just say that he was copying Ward, so it's Wards fault still
Just Dave wrote: Google Land Speeder Vengeance, there's a model with it having two huge plasma... 'things' on the back.
Yea, that thing is definately on the "NO!" list. I might just get the plasma cannons off eBay and then put them on a regular Land Speeder using the Typhoon missile launcher struts to attach them.
RiTides wrote: Does someone have a link to image shack or the like where pics are still being hosted? I believe that's still kosher.
The thing I can't work out is why the gunner was moved forward to this odd unbalanced forward gunwell. I mean... they filled his seat with... God knows what... and stuck him as far forward as possible (and cut off his legs).
If the pilot wants to look forward and right... the gunner is in his way. Imagine driving a car but there's a guy sitting on the hood above your right headlight. It'd be fething annoying!
To those who are wondering I theorize that the DJ Landspeeder Escalade is in fact the Darkshroud version and the marine in the back is operating the ancient piece of tech which will probably give a shrouding bubble which would be kick ass with bikes.
Also battleforce contents would seem to include at a minimum 2 ravenwing bike squads 1 attack bike bits to make the attack bike ravenwing and a landspeeder vengeance
I wonder how much longer the Polish printing agency that does White Dwarf is going to retain GW's business.
This was one of the most brazen times this has happened, with the "leaks" usually being submitted to places like BOLS and reposted here not directly posted here.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The thing I can't work out is why the gunner was moved forward to this odd unbalanced forward gunwell. I mean... they filled his seat with... God knows what... and stuck him as far forward as possible (and cut off his legs).
To make it look more like a pulpit, complementing the whole monastic/church robes, censors, altars vibe?
Those flyers are disgusting to look at! particularly the land speeders. I agree with HBMC, the gunner at the front looks stupid, it's like he's pretending to be an oversized hood ornament on a flying Rolls Royce.
I like the terminators though, is it just me or do they looked beefed up from the standard terminator?
H.B.M.C. wrote: The thing I can't work out is why the gunner was moved forward to this odd unbalanced forward gunwell. I mean... they filled his seat with... God knows what... and stuck him as far forward as possible (and cut off his legs).
If the pilot wants to look forward and right... the gunner is in his way. Imagine driving a car but there's a guy sitting on the hood above your right headlight. It'd be fething annoying!
Not only that - but who wants to be the gunner on the part of the vehicle everyone sees first? Say the pilot is killed, who gets the entire vehicle smashed into their rear end? The front gunner.... What a terrible place to put somebody.
On the bright side - now that the gunner is out of the seat, we can cover it with some really cool gothic church windows!
Just Dave wrote: Google Land Speeder Vengeance, there's a model with it having two huge plasma... 'things' on the back.
Yea, that thing is definately on the "NO!" list. I might just get the plasma cannons off eBay and then put them on a regular Land Speeder using the Typhoon missile launcher struts to attach them.
RiTides wrote: Does someone have a link to image shack or the like where pics are still being hosted? I believe that's still kosher.
I went and looked at the Termy pictures again at a few other sites - because the Internet cannot be stopped GW, please take note of this - and I gotto say that they look amazing. These sprues are going to be filled with all manner of bits, and it looks like with some tweaking you could make some interesting Inquisitorial things, even some really cool-looking Deathwatch guys. I just hope we get some pics of the sprues soon. This is like the GKT kit on overdrive.
Insurgency Walker wrote: Looking at this stuff makes me hope they don't update Black Templars soon. Like the dark talon though.
Nothing says "successful update" like someone actually wishing their army gets left alone.
The new Chaplain looks freekin' tight...
I do have to say, as a bone-aye-fyde orkee, it's nice to see someone else have ramshackle vehicle... (sarcasm is extremely thick here) ... Funny belongs to the orkz!!! Dammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmn!
Kanluwen wrote: There's no reasonable input which can justify that monstrosity to be honest.
For what it is worth, I think Zwei's on the right track. For whatever reason they wanted a Floating Dark Church of Darkness.
Yeah, Zwie kinda missed the entire point of what I was saying (quite common really). Obviously they're ramping up the Gothic church angle. I know that. You know that. We all know that. What I was asking is why you'd go and fill the passenger seat with that crap and move the passenger way forward, so far forward in fact that he could actually be an obstruction to the operation of the vehicle ("Hey Brother Asmodan... can you see what's to the right of us... your gunwell is kinda in the way again. Sorry to keep asking Brother, but... the Omnissiah was clearly drunk when he designed this vehicle!") The Land Speeder Escalade is just a terrible design, and I dunno what the feth they were thinking when they approved it. But, unlike the Baby-Carrier and Space-Guppy and like the Chibi-Hawk, I reckon kitbashing it would save it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The thing I can't work out is why the gunner was moved forward to this odd unbalanced forward gunwell. I mean... they filled his seat with... God knows what... and stuck him as far forward as possible (and cut off his legs).
If the pilot wants to look forward and right... the gunner is in his way. Imagine driving a car but there's a guy sitting on the hood above your right headlight. It'd be fething annoying!
Sometimes asymmetric looks cool. Maybe they were trying to channel WWI bomber aesthetics with the forward gunner? Maybe they want to keep Dark Angles sales down so they will be more exclusive.
Kanluwen wrote: There's no reasonable input which can justify that monstrosity to be honest.
For what it is worth, I think Zwei's on the right track. For whatever reason they wanted a Floating Dark Church of Darkness.
Yeah, Zwie kinda missed the entire point of what I was saying (quite common really). Obviously they're ramping up the Gothic church angle. I know that. You know that. We all know that. What I was asking is why you'd go and fill the passenger seat with that crap and move the passenger way forward, so far forward in fact that he could actually be an obstruction to the operation of the vehicle ("Hey Brother Asmodan... can you see what's to the right of us... your gunwell is kinda in the way again. Sorry to keep asking Brother, but... the Omnissiah was clearly drunk when he designed this vehicle!") The Land Speeder Escalade is just a terrible design, and I dunno what the feth they were thinking when they approved it. But, unlike the Baby-Carrier and Space-Guppy and like the Chibi-Hawk, I reckon kitbashing it would save it.
They were thinking:
"People like Escalades right?"
"Well yeah!"
"Let's make a LAND SPEEDER ESCALADE!"
"Brilliant!" and thus the Dark Church Speeder was born...
Terminators holding power church mauls? AP4 on all of them? GW is trolling DW players .
Landspeeder oohhh the ugliness! I guess there is somekind of bet between GW employees, regarding how much a f$#k ugly model will sell if it has awesome rules.
Both flyers are indifferent and belial can be used for some terrain statue.
Great disappointment for D.A players especially after Dark Vengeance termies that looked great.
Capamaru wrote: Terminators holding power church mauls? AP4 on all of them? GW is trolling DW players
Yeah I thought that too. It's great and all that they've all stolen the mace that Ecclesiarchy special character has, but who's going to buy a bunch'a AP4 Terminators?
Daedricbob wrote: Belial's toes look slightly turned in, like he's busting for a pee or something.
My thoughts exactly. And the way he's waving his arms around makes him look like he has no idea what to do with them either. Honestly, the design itself is okay, but his pose is just completely stupid. Ruins the entire model.
The bst use of the Speeder I can think of is as a badass 6mm or 15mm dropship, just gotta cover those crew compartments and get rid of the forward gunner...thing.
Kanluwen wrote: There's no reasonable input which can justify that monstrosity to be honest.
For what it is worth, I think Zwei's on the right track. For whatever reason they wanted a Floating Dark Church of Darkness.
Yeah, Zwie kinda missed the entire point of what I was saying (quite common really). Obviously they're ramping up the Gothic church angle. I know that. You know that. We all know that. What I was asking is why you'd go and fill the passenger seat with that crap and move the passenger way forward, so far forward in fact that he could actually be an obstruction to the operation of the vehicle
Why would you place a gunner so far backwards that he couldn't actually do anything but shoot the sky?
Why would you even mount a heat-based and/or flamer-weapon on a fast-moving skimmer?
Why would you put genetically engineered super-soldiers into anatomically dysfunctional armour suits that likely wouldn't even allow them to stand up if they tripped?
I think you might just have been collecting the wrong game-line the last few decades.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The thing I can't work out is why the gunner was moved forward to this odd unbalanced forward gunwell. I mean... they filled his seat with... God knows what... and stuck him as far forward as possible (and cut off his legs).
If the pilot wants to look forward and right... the gunner is in his way. Imagine driving a car but there's a guy sitting on the hood above your right headlight. It'd be fething annoying!
Sometimes asymmetric looks cool. Maybe they were trying to channel WWI bomber aesthetics with the forward gunner? Maybe they want to keep Dark Angles sales down so they will be more exclusive.
Looking at the landspeeder I am somehow reminded of the GK Babybjörn/Dreadknight.
Someone in GW's design studio clearly is a major TROLL and has the wits to sell his jokes to the bosses.
Capamaru wrote: Terminators holding power church mauls? AP4 on all of them? GW is trolling DW players
Yeah I thought that too. It's great and all that they've all stolen the mace that Ecclesiarchy special character has, but who's going to buy a bunch'a AP4 Terminators?
I don't know who would buy S6 AP4 I4 Concusive Terminators?
Me for one!
Actualy they probably get a Power Weapon and the Mace and Flail just look the coolest for the photo op. I know my Chaos Marines and Space Wolves are going to seal a bunch of them. I know that my ThunderLord will be traiding in his Thunder Hamme for that Triple Flail.
Daedricbob wrote: Belial's toes look slightly turned in, like he's busting for a pee or something.
My thoughts exactly. And the way he's waving his arms around makes him look like he has no idea what to do with them either. Honestly, the design itself is okay, but his pose is just completely stupid. Ruins the entire model.
It's the traditional "DId anyone lose these weapons?!?" pose beloved of every unit leader mini in FB in the 90s.
On the plus side you will probably have an ass load of extra terminator arms left over from the DW box with which to convert him.
lord_blackfang wrote: The bst use of the Speeder I can think of is as a badass 6mm or 15mm dropship, just gotta cover those crew compartments and get rid of the forward gunner...thing.
Best use would be for an emperors children's land speeder. Has dj in the back already, convert the plasma guns to boob boxes, cut off all the swords and rework the talons. Convert the guy in the forward gunnery spot to one of the old guitar wielding guys and have him standing on the hood. Nothing says crazy drugged up music fans like someone rocking out on the top of a land speeder.
Kanluwen wrote: There's no reasonable input which can justify that monstrosity to be honest.
For what it is worth, I think Zwei's on the right track. For whatever reason they wanted a Floating Dark Church of Darkness.
Yeah, Zwie kinda missed the entire point of what I was saying (quite common really). Obviously they're ramping up the Gothic church angle. I know that. You know that. We all know that. What I was asking is why you'd go and fill the passenger seat with that crap and move the passenger way forward, so far forward in fact that he could actually be an obstruction to the operation of the vehicle
Why would you place a gunner so far backwards that he couldn't actually do anything but shoot the sky?
Why would you even mount a heat-based and/or flamer-weapon on a fast-moving skimmer?
Why would you put genetically engineered super-soldiers into anatomically dysfunctional armour suits that likely wouldn't even allow them to stand up if they tripped?
I think you might just have been collecting the wrong game-line the last few decades.
So, because GW made a (presently obsolete) model that looked a little cool despite being completely impractical, we should all be okay with GW making a new model that looks terrible and is completely impractical?
---
Hey guys, I figured out why I hate the new GW aesthetic: Everyone's a freaking teenager that never grew up.
You remember how back when you were a teen you were very into something, and it was very, very important to make sure everyone knew you were very into something, so you only bought clothes that advertised it and put it all over your room? It was a normal thing to do when you're a kid, because you haven't fully formed an adult identity and you needed some shortcut to letting the world around you know who you were. But at some point in college you looked around your dorm room plastered with posters for bands you like or toys from the sci-fi show you like and realized how tacky it all looked? And you know how there are some people who never get out of that phase? Like the guy who only wears video game t-shirts he buys off the internet, or the lady who has to have every Hello Kitty accessory ever made, or the dude whose every worldly possession is color-coordinated to his favorite sports team? Well, those people won the fast food wars and now dominate the 40K universe. The Dark Angels aren't a super-secret chapter with a dark history, they're a bunch of kids whose manufactorium was outsourced to Hot Topic and now everything has to come with stupid angels not just as iconography, but built into the freaking equipment. Because how else would you know they're dark?
One thing that I noticed about the flyer is that it really looks like the Imperial Guard Lightning. Just to confirm that I went to the Forgeworld site to take another look at their version and found it absent from the Imperial Navy section.
So, other than the fact that the Vengeance can be converted to a Lightning, is it possible that GW is releasing a plastic Lightning?
Kanluwen wrote: There's no reasonable input which can justify that monstrosity to be honest.
For what it is worth, I think Zwei's on the right track. For whatever reason they wanted a Floating Dark Church of Darkness.
Yeah, Zwie kinda missed the entire point of what I was saying (quite common really). Obviously they're ramping up the Gothic church angle. I know that. You know that. We all know that. What I was asking is why you'd go and fill the passenger seat with that crap and move the passenger way forward, so far forward in fact that he could actually be an obstruction to the operation of the vehicle
Why would you place a gunner so far backwards that he couldn't actually do anything but shoot the sky?
Why would you even mount a heat-based and/or flamer-weapon on a fast-moving skimmer?
Why would you put genetically engineered super-soldiers into anatomically dysfunctional armour suits that likely wouldn't even allow them to stand up if they tripped?
I think you might just have been collecting the wrong game-line the last few decades.
So, because GW made a (presently obsolete) model that looked a little cool despite being completely impractical, we should all be okay with GW making a new model that looks terrible and is completely impractical?
---
Hey guys, I figured out why I hate the new GW aesthetic: Everyone's a freaking teenager that never grew up.
You remember how back when you were a teen you were very into something, and it was very, very important to make sure everyone knew you were very into something, so you only bought clothes that advertised it and put it all over your room? It was a normal thing to do when you're a kid, because you haven't fully formed an adult identity and you needed some shortcut to letting the world around you know who you were. But at some point in college you looked around your dorm room plastered with posters for bands you like or toys from the sci-fi show you like and realized how tacky it all looked? And you know how there are some people who never get out of that phase? Like the guy who only wears video game t-shirts he buys off the internet, or the lady who has to have every Hello Kitty accessory ever made, or the dude whose every worldly possession is color-coordinated to his favorite sports team? Well, those people won the fast food wars and now dominate the 40K universe. The Dark Angels aren't a super-secret chapter with a dark history, they're a bunch of kids whose manufactorium was outsourced to Hot Topic and now everything has to come with stupid angels not just as iconography, but built into the freaking equipment. Because how else would you know they're dark?
Guy who plays with little plastic army men is making fun of people who wear band t-shirts and collect things... Nothing hypocritical about that at all
bogalubov wrote: One thing that I noticed about the flyer is that it really looks like the Imperial Guard Lightning. Just to confirm that I went to the Forgeworld site to take another look at their version and found it absent from the Imperial Navy section.
So, other than the fact that the Vengeance can be converted to a Lightning, is it possible that GW is releasing a plastic Lightning?
Nope. FW is replacing it with the Voss pattern Lightning.
Is that a Thunderfire Cannon on a Storm Talon?!?!?!?!?
No, it has been referred to as a "Rift Cannon". Ruleswise, i do not know what that means. Perhaps it functions similarly to a TFC but until some people with codex leaks start squawking all we have to go by is the White Dwarf scans.
Is that a Thunderfire Cannon on a Storm Talon?!?!?!?!?
No, it has been referred to as a "Rift Cannon". Ruleswise, i do not know what that means. Perhaps it functions similarly to a TFC but until some people with codex leaks start squawking all we have to go by is the White Dwarf scans.
Actually, that is a Avenger Bolt Cannon. The other one is the Rift Cannon.
BarBoBot wrote: Guy who plays with little plastic army men is making fun of people who wear band t-shirts and collect things... Nothing hypocritical about that at all
See, your comment just reads to me like a flimsy justification. Someone dragging out a picture of the old 2E landspeeder or playing the tired old "Why should there be any kind versimilitude in a fantasy wargame?" canard are likewise just that, desperate, pointless and hollow excuses.
Capamaru wrote: Terminators holding power church mauls? AP4 on all of them? GW is trolling DW players
Yeah I thought that too. It's great and all that they've all stolen the mace that Ecclesiarchy special character has, but who's going to buy a bunch'a AP4 Terminators?
How do we know they aren't special S+1, AP 2 Dark Ravenmaces with the option for a Plasma Incense upgrade?
Capamaru wrote: Terminators holding power church mauls? AP4 on all of them? GW is trolling DW players
Yeah I thought that too. It's great and all that they've all stolen the mace that Ecclesiarchy special character has, but who's going to buy a bunch'a AP4 Terminators?
I don't know who would buy S6 AP4 I4 Concusive Terminators?
Me for one!
Actualy they probably get a Power Weapon and the Mace and Flail just look the coolest for the photo op. I know my Chaos Marines and Space Wolves are going to seal a bunch of them. I know that my ThunderLord will be traiding in his Thunder Hamme for that Triple Flail.
If their special rules are as rumored...wowzers. And split fire for DW...really liking that.
Is that a Thunderfire Cannon on a Storm Talon?!?!?!?!?
No, it has been referred to as a "Rift Cannon". Ruleswise, i do not know what that means. Perhaps it functions similarly to a TFC but until some people with codex leaks start squawking all we have to go by is the White Dwarf scans.
Actually, that is a Avenger Bolt Cannon. The other one is the Rift Cannon.
That's interesting - I would have presumed that a gatling-gun style weapon would have the "bolt" shells associated with it, while the single large-bore weapon would be a different kind of Cannon.
I actually like the new models a lot, except for the land speeder, I'm not sure I'm sold on that. I am however noticing a distinct lack of green dudes. The Ravenwing and Death wing appear to have been given all the toys, I guess those gunslinging inner circle/brother-interrogator models never came to fruition :/ I really was hoping playing a regular "greenwing" would be a valid option. I guess we just gotta wait for the Codex.
Capamaru wrote: Terminators holding power church mauls? AP4 on all of them? GW is trolling DW players
Yeah I thought that too. It's great and all that they've all stolen the mace that Ecclesiarchy special character has, but who's going to buy a bunch'a AP4 Terminators?
How do we know they aren't special S+1, AP 2 Dark Ravenmaces with the option for a Plasma Incense upgrade?
Capamaru wrote: Terminators holding power church mauls? AP4 on all of them? GW is trolling DW players
Yeah I thought that too. It's great and all that they've all stolen the mace that Ecclesiarchy special character has, but who's going to buy a bunch'a AP4 Terminators?
How do we know they aren't special S+1, AP 2 Dark Ravenmaces with the option for a Plasma Incense upgrade?
Because faeit posted rules. They're Power Mauls, but the Deathwing Knights have a special rule that lets them strike at S10 AP2 the first round of combat. Yep, TH/SS Terminators with WS5 that strike at I4 with S10 AP2.
I think some of you guys need to check out the Faeit 212 blog and read some of the rules info there. If true, the DW Knights have something better going for them than power mauls. And if that Vengeance with the shrine is in fact the Darkshroud, any of you playing RW will almost certainly be buying the model regardless of how it looks.
Well, unless the thing is just stupidly expensive in points, of course.
As a long suffering DA player from 3rd edition, I'm very excited about this release. Apart from "poop my pants" Belial, everything looks great. I'll take 2 of each.
Edit: Images have been removed due copyright issues. Sorry. -- yakface
GWhammer strikes again!
Except Yakface has voluntarily maintained this policy for a while. It is against Dakka's policy to host copyrighted material on dakka's gallery. You can post links to external pics all you want.
I'm just a bit worried about how it looks like a massive ramp up in power from CSM. Termies that hit at I4 with S10 AP2 attacks, Gattling guns and missile loaded fliers, bikes with twinlinked plasma weapons, the new speeder that gives everything in 12" stealth, and this interesting new rule that "garuntees" your units to come in from reserver on turn 2 or 3 (your choice none the less) without rolling for it.
Also I think the speeder back turret looks really good. The quad engine design looks a bit wonky at first, but I lightened up to it. The gunners turret did look a bit silly, but I'm warming up to it slowly.
Belial, I have to wait to see the model. I'm having trouble telling because the way the picture on the page is rolled. I want to believe it's just a static, standing pose. It does look like it's a bit of an awkward stance. I'm sure people will manage to make their own counts as if it proves to be too silly.
Savageconvoy wrote: I'm just a bit worried about how it looks like a massive ramp up in power from CSM. Termies that hit at I4 with S10 AP2 attacks, Gattling guns and missile loaded fliers, bikes with twinlinked plasma weapons, the new speeder that gives everything in 12" shrouding, and this interesting new rule that "garuntees" your units to come in from reserver on turn 2 or 3 (your choice none the less) without rolling for it.
"It's too early to be crying about this. Maybe next month all your tears will be valid." - Redbeard
I mean, wasn't that quote originally about Grey Knights?
Well, my mates will be very pleased I'm sure.
It's a quote, why would I remove the 'maybe'?
I don't even remember what it started about but it is perfect for each release. Inevitably, someone starts saying the sky is falling before we even see the codex.
I mean, wasn't that quote originally about Grey Knights?
Well, my mates will be very pleased I'm sure.
It's a quote, why would I remove the 'maybe'?
I don't even remember what it started about but it is perfect for each release. Inevitably, someone starts saying the sky is falling before we even see the codex.
To be fair, the guy did say "looks like" and was much more reasonable than the usual sky is falling reactions we see. That said, I love the quote and you're not being unreasonable by suggesting people wait.
I didn't panic. I just said I'm concerned about the possiblities. Especially with a codex from one of the Fantasy authors. More curious than anything else.
But I actually liked the Skaven book. Really fun to play.
Savageconvoy wrote: I'm just a bit worried about how it looks like a massive ramp up in power from CSM. Termies that hit at I4 with S10 AP2 attacks, Gattling guns and missile loaded fliers, bikes with twinlinked plasma weapons, the new speeder that gives everything in 12" shrouding, and this interesting new rule that "garuntees" your units to come in from reserver on turn 2 or 3 (your choice none the less) without rolling for it.
To be fair, the info says it's stealth to everything within 12", although that's still good and potentially nasty for any of the RW stuff that gets access to skilled rider.
The DW assault is apparently on turn 1 or 2 (decide before the game starts), and I'm gonna guess that it doesn't trump the 50% reserve rule. The ability to choose turn 2 would give you more of a chance to get homers in position, which would make Belial (reportedly giving heroic intervention) with a unit of DW Knights a very scary thing. Like with most of those kinds of things, it'll probably be hard to pull off in a game with any reliability. Would be fun to try, though.
Belial, I have to wait to see the model. I'm having trouble telling because the way the picture on the page is rolled. I want to believe it's just a static, standing pose. It does look like it's a bit of an awkward stance. I'm sure people will manage to make their own counts as if it proves to be too silly.
Like I said earlier, it's a 2D pic of a 2D mag being held at an angle. I hazard to guess we'll be quite satisfied by the model in real life.
For the most part I like the look of the new models. I've already learned not to get my hopes up too high for the rules in the Codex as there's always something omitted or something that isn't particularly fun in those books, but it can't be more bland than the last one. Hopefully it will mostly be fun.
Belial, I have to wait to see the model. I'm having trouble telling because the way the picture on the page is rolled. I want to believe it's just a static, standing pose. It does look like it's a bit of an awkward stance. I'm sure people will manage to make their own counts as if it proves to be too silly.
I made my own Master of The Deathwing a few years ago (see below) when the last Dark Angels Codex was released. It's so much more dynamic than the new one I may have to pass on what will be an expensive Finecast model and stick with my conversion. This model and a good chunk of my Dark Angels army are currently on display at the Games Workshop Battle Bunker in Bowie, MD.
Honestly I liked the Belial model that we saw previewed.
He looked very much like a man in charge, reminded me a bit of the art from the current DA codex (p47) of the "Last Rites of Brother Rammael".
I like the new stuff, except for belial. I can not believe the prices though.. €60 for what is basically a stormtalon is absurd. The €10 extra for the DW terminator box when compared to other boxes like grey knights is pretty annoying too though we don't know how much is actually in it yet with regards to bits etc
Yeah i'm certainly not on board with the limospeeder.
As people say maybe it will be good in battle but I think I might be a bit embarrassed to field it. Some conversion would most certainly be needed to make it field-able for me.
d-usa wrote: Man, I just now noticed that there is actually a third marine sitting in the back of the speeder...
Sweet, Speeder with a DJ. Now I want to make Daft Punk Marines...
What is the thrid marine actually doing?
Gunner - check!
Driver - check!
Third Guy Not Doing Anything Useful - check?
I'm actually wondering if the unweaponed version is the new Master of the Ravenwing speeder...
Either way, not a fan. It would have worked better without the forward mounted gunner, but as it it's just way too wonky. Other than that and pigeon-toed Belial, I actually quite like all of this. The winged Talon is a huge improvement on the Stormtalon.
This would have had me tempted to start Dark Angels... but since GW don't want me getting excited until they say I can, and with a baby on the way my purchases are going to require a little forward planning, I think I'll stick with slowly expanding my 2nd ed Necrons via eBay instead.
d-usa wrote: Man, I just now noticed that there is actually a third marine sitting in the back of the speeder...
Sweet, Speeder with a DJ. Now I want to make Daft Punk Marines...
What is the thrid marine actually doing?
Gunner - check!
Driver - check!
Third Guy Not Doing Anything Useful - check?
I'm actually wondering if the unweaponed version is the new Master of the Ravenwing speeder...
Either way, not a fan. It would have worked better without the forward mounted gunner, but as it it's just way too wonky. Other than that and pigeon-toed Belial, I actually quite like all of this. The winged Talon is a huge improvement on the Stormtalon.
This would have had me tempted to start Dark Angels... but since GW don't want me getting excited until they say I can, and with a baby on the way my purchases are going to require a little forward planning, I think I'll stick with slowly expanding my 2nd ed Necrons via eBay instead.
I see kit bashing opportunities with the new speeder and the "regular" speeder kits to make it not look so damn stupid - and more like a traditional speeder w/ added Ravenwing DJ unit to keep the tunes going....
So the new norm for GW products is "I'll buy that because it doesn't look too awful" as opposed " that looks amazing I'll take three!". What a sad state of affairs.
so, i'm looking at the White Dwarf page for the new boxes, and it looks like there is only 1 Termie box being released...
this should mean the box makes standard Tacticals, Command, and Knights...
that would make for a ton of bits, all great for enhancing Termie or PA minis...
should make the price tag a little easier to swallow...
Sigvatr wrote: Gods, those damn GW lawyers keep tea-bagging dakka? It's ridiculous. Not even posting images now...wow.
"Keep tea-bagging dakka"?
Yakface takes the stuff down himself. It's copyrighted material which is not actually for sale yet. And it's not a case of it "being a few days early". It's a case of a shop selling far before the street date.
jah-joshua wrote: so, i'm looking at the White Dwarf page for the new boxes, and it looks like there is only 1 Termie box being released...
this should mean the box makes standard Tacticals, Command, and Knights...
that would make for a ton of bits, all great for enhancing Termie or PA minis...
should make the price tag a little easier to swallow...
cheers
jah
God I hope so... Due to the number of temies I already have I only want the axe and a plasma termie from the standard ones (plus a squad of 5 knights). If what you say is true that means I can get one box, my bits box and a few ebay bits.
pretre wrote: Except this is not GW's lawyers. This is a voluntary policy that Dakka undertakes.
The pictures were removed at the request of GW legal.
Really? Well, color me surprised.
I was under the understanding that there was a rule against posting copyrighted material and Yak was just enforcing it. My bad.
The Rules wrote: Any image attached to a forum post (as opposed to hot-linking to the image from another site) that is not related to gaming or is copyrighted may be deleted.
I always assumed the same was true of the gallery.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Would make sense, seeming how unexciting the Chaos Space Marine codex was... hoping all Chaos Marine players would instead start a fallen army...
I'll run a Fallen list out of this Codex, much like I did with the old DA codex. I'm a bit underwhelmed with the new CSM codex.
What happened to the supposed PLASMA Terminator options that were in every rumors list for the past few months? Did anyone see any photos from that White Dwarf of the new Terminators with plasma weapons? The pictures are still available on other blogs and forums, I was just looking at them moments ago. No plasma.
pretre wrote:It isn't the MoW speeder. It's the Ravenshroud thingy.
I can confirm that. This is how MoW speeders look
Nania over at Warseer wrote:I Got a hold of the new White dwarf aswell.
I was underwhelmed when i saw the pictures on here, but after seeing it in the real magazine I am really impressed! The pictures that was in this thread really does not do them justice.
Also, it looks like the deathwing/knight/command squad box will come with a boatload of extra weapons and bits, since it can build either from one box.
It says: "It's also worth noting how many special weapons and options come in this kit: far more guns than one squad can carry. These extras can be used on your command squad or as spares for other deathwing units in your army"
Lars Emil over at faeit212 wrote:Just in reference to the title of this post: No, it's not actually a leak, the WD is just out in Denmark...for some odd reason. I picked up my own copy yesterady at a local kiosk.
Tid bits of note in the WD:
Dark Talon: Rift cannnon (no rules sited), hurricane bolters and stasis bomb (one use only, dropped on an enemy for - 3 WS and - 3 I)
Niphilim fighter: heavy bolters, blacksword missiles (no rules sited, but the battle report later in the issue mentions that the fighter is supposed to be good at taking on enemy flyers, so I guess the missiles are for that), avenger mega bolter/lascannon.
Deathwing Command: multiple options incl. apothecary and standard bearer. A "Champion" wielding the "massive halberd of Caliban" is mentioned and there's a picture (no rules sited).
Deathwing Knights: Terminators with WS5, Storm Shields, power mauls and special rules, incl. Hammer of
Wrath and "Smite" which makes them strike at S10 AP2 for one round. BTW both DW terminators and the knights can be fielded in units of 10 now! Oh and the DW can take plasma cannon and they have USR "split fire"!!!!
Land Speeder Vengeance: AC/HB, plasma storm battery (mentioned in the battle report to be able to fire either 3 small blasts or 1 large blast, I'm guessing plasma stats).
Darkshroud: HB/AC, Shrouded USR and conferes Stealth to allies within 12", and it has a rule that gives units +1 to charge distance (as far as I can read - the picture is quite small and hard to read, so perhaps it's plus 1 to something else).
RW Black Knights: plasma talons (instead of bolters, no rules sited, and not being called twin-linked plasma gun/pistols leads me to believe the rules could be a bit different), corvus hammer (no rules sited, but I guess they are power mauls), they also have the option of a RW grenade launcher.
Sammael: pretty much the same as before, as far as I can tell, though with a 4+ inv.save (which is confered to the land speeder if he chooses that instead) - can't remember if that's new.
Dreadnaught: has option for dual twin-autocannons, venerable dreadnaught has "DW vehicle" rule
Rules mentioned:
DW knights and black knights have a rule called "Inner Circle" and in the battlereport it is mentioned as giving them some form of re-roll in close combat.
New rule calles DW Vehicle
DW assault rule is mentioned in the battle report as ensuring a DS in turns 1 or 2 with no dice roll needed, decided by the DA player before the game begins.
There are more special rules mentioned but no rules sited.
DW, DW command and knights are in the same box.
RW command and RW black knights are in the same box.
So the WD hasn't been leaked but can be legally bought in Denmark everywhere!
GW's ultra-secrecy policy has shot them int he foot with me again. I'm making a DA army and a few weeks ago bought a Stormtalon (modifying it of course...) and some close combat terminators off ebay. I would have bought these new products from GW directly had I known they were coming out.
Similar to last year me buying an old Eldar megaforce off ebay then a week later the DE Megaforce is released, which I again would have bought.
How has that shot them in the foot? You'll most likely still end up getting the models and now they've made two sales. At least, I'm sure that's how they are thinking.
Harriticus wrote: GW's ultra-secrecy policy has shot them int he foot with me again. I'm making a DA army and a few weeks ago bought a Stormtalon (modifying it of course...) and some close combat terminators off ebay. I would have bought these new products from GW directly had I known they were coming out.
To be fair, the Dakka rumour roundup had a DA January release listed for several months.
pretre wrote:I already posted the rules bit a couple times with legal pics links but no one is updating the first post. :(
edit: Nevermind. It looks like my posts with the links to external sites were deleted. I'm guessing that means it is no longer okay to link to other sites as well.
Nania over at Warseer wrote:I Got a hold of the new White dwarf aswell.
I was underwhelmed when i saw the pictures on here, but after seeing it in the real magazine I am really impressed! The pictures that was in this thread really does not do them justice.
Also, it looks like the deathwing/knight/command squad box will come with a boatload of extra weapons and bits, since it can build either from one box.
It says: "It's also worth noting how many special weapons and options come in this kit: far more guns than one squad can carry. These extras can be used on your command squad or as spares for other deathwing units in your army"
Seems that box and 2 of thewarstore.com's termi body sets ($23) or Dark Vengence Termis (also $23) is a good way to get some relatively cheap termis.
RiTides wrote: Afaik links are fine, just not images shown and/or hosted here... there are a few in the OP now.
Well then...
Here's my earlier post without image tags.
the Faeit 212 comment sections from Lars Emil wrote:
Just in reference to the title of this post: No, it's not actually a leak, the WD is just out in Denmark...for some odd reason. I picked up my own copy yesterady at a local kiosk.
Tid bits of note in the WD:
Dark Talon: Rift cannnon (no rules sited), hurricane bolters and stasis bomb (one use only, dropped on an enemy for - 3 WS and - 3 I)
Niphilim fighter: heavy bolters, blacksword missiles (no rules sited, but the battle report later in the issue mentions that the fighter is supposed to be good at taking on enemy flyers, so I guess the missiles are for that), avenger mega bolter/lascannon.
Deathwing Command: multiple options incl. apothecary and standard bearer. A "Champion" wielding the "massive halberd of Caliban" is mentioned and there's a picture (no rules sited).
Deathwing Knights: Terminators with WS5, Storm Shields, power mauls and special rules, incl. Hammer of
Wrath and "Smite" which makes them strike at S10 AP2 for one round. BTW both DW terminators and the knights can be fielded in units of 10 now! Oh and the DW can take plasma cannon and they have USR "split fire"!!!!
Land Speeder Vengeance: AC/HB, plasma storm battery (mentioned in the battle report to be able to fire either 3 small blasts or 1 large blast, I'm guessing plasma stats).
Darkshroud: HB/AC, Shrouded USR and conferes Stealth to allies within 12", and it has a rule that gives units +1 to charge distance (as far as I can read - the picture is quite small and hard to read, so perhaps it's plus 1 to something else).
RW Black Knights: plasma talons (instead of bolters, no rules sited, and not being called twin-linked plasma gun/pistols leads me to believe the rules could be a bit different), corvus hammer (no rules sited, but I guess they are power mauls), they also have the option of a RW grenade launcher.
Sammael: pretty much the same as before, as far as I can tell, though with a 4+ inv.save (which is confered to the land speeder if he chooses that instead) - can't remember if that's new.
Dreadnaught: has option for dual twin-autocannons, venerable dreadnaught has "DW vehicle" rule
Rules mentioned:
DW knights and black knights have a rule called "Inner Circle" and in the battlereport it is mentioned as giving them some form of re-roll in close combat.
New rule calles DW Vehicle
DW assault rule is mentioned in the battle report as ensuring a DS in turns 1 or 2 with no dice roll needed, decided by the DA player before the game begins.
There are more special rules mentioned but no rules sited.
DW, DW command and knights are in the same box.
RW command and RW black knights are in the same box.
This was what I could decern, but there are probably loads more if you really study the WD.
I feel with you guys "over there" who have to wait until the 5th of January for your copy of WD, so I hope my little run down will at least give you something over the holidays.
Damn it, the more I hear the more undecided I get... To make a Fallen army or make a custom loyal.. grr...
From what I've seen, loOks like it will be another codex of wolf/blood, but with dark
Too early to say this?
DARK ANGELS, WE MAKE PLANETFALL IN OUR DARKPODS AND OUR DARKSHIPS IN THE NAME OF DARKNESS VENGEANCE AND OUR DARK LORDS WHAT WIELD DARK CLAWS SWORDS. FOR THE DARKTIME!
Just Dave wrote: Google Land Speeder Vengeance, there's a model with it having two huge plasma... 'things' on the back.
Yea, that thing is definately on the "NO!" list. I might just get the plasma cannons off eBay and then put them on a regular Land Speeder using the Typhoon missile launcher struts to attach them.
RiTides wrote: Does someone have a link to image shack or the like where pics are still being hosted? I believe that's still kosher.
Ah ok. I know some DA fluff, but hadn't caught that bit. So is the new release of models only for deathwing/ravenwing? Seems kind of lame considering those two companies are only a fraction of the chapter's strength (that's actually an assumption on my part.)
FWIW as a non-DA player, but general hobby/modeling fan I don't really like these models. All of the gothic, church-ey, angel iconography seems really forced and crammed onto the models. The Knights look cool, but that bout it for me. The escalade-dj-mobile will make for some good conversions though I think.
And again: The WD hasn't been leaked. It is already legally released in Denmark. Whatever the reason.
Not in all of Denmark. I live in the second largest city in the country and none of the two local stores neither the library (yes,the local library has it - and always releases it the minute they have it, so it usually breaks early there ) have received the WD yet.
I think the leak is from a local shop in Aalborg that also posted the new Daemons this summer, only this time they aren't doing it as obvious as back then (with the YT videos in english showing every page a week before the release).
So in summary: not available everywhere in Denmark, by far.
Jayden63 wrote: The rules sound like typical Matt Ward fair. Nothing surprising there.
Except Ward didn't write it...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Someday people will figure out it has more to do with the company than just one writer.
Who wrote it then? Because it sure reads like a lot of his other work. Higher than usual strengths, lower than probably necessary APs, special rules handed out on a platter. Multiple new units and/or renaming of existing stuff.
Jayden63 wrote: The rules sound like typical Matt Ward fair. Nothing surprising there.
Except Ward didn't write it...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Someday people will figure out it has more to do with the company than just one writer.
Who wrote it then? Because it sure reads like a lot of his other work. Higher than usual strengths, lower than probably necessary APs, special rules handed out on a platter. Multiple new units and/or renaming of existing stuff.
Gorlack wrote: Not in all of Denmark. I live in the second largest city in the country and none of the two local stores neither the library (yes,the local library has it
Wait, the second largest city of Denmark has only two stores??
Jayden63 wrote: The rules sound like typical Matt Ward fair. Nothing surprising there.
Except Ward didn't write it...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Someday people will figure out it has more to do with the company than just one writer.
Who wrote it then? Because it sure reads like a lot of his other work. Higher than usual strengths, lower than probably necessary APs, special rules handed out on a platter. Multiple new units and/or renaming of existing stuff.
Except we dont have the rules yet to discern if its OP. So relax man, try to be positive.
Jayden63 wrote: The rules sound like typical Matt Ward fair. Nothing surprising there.
Except Ward didn't write it...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Someday people will figure out it has more to do with the company than just one writer.
Who wrote it then? Because it sure reads like a lot of his other work. Higher than usual strengths, lower than probably necessary APs, special rules handed out on a platter. Multiple new units and/or renaming of existing stuff.
Jeremy Vetock.
I have no idea who that is. LOL Well, best of luck, the internets can be brutal.
Jayden63 wrote: The rules sound like typical Matt Ward fair. Nothing surprising there.
Except Ward didn't write it...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Someday people will figure out it has more to do with the company than just one writer.
Who wrote it then? Because it sure reads like a lot of his other work. Higher than usual strengths, lower than probably necessary APs, special rules handed out on a platter. Multiple new units and/or renaming of existing stuff.
Didn't you just describe every new Codex/Army Book?
Jayden63 wrote: The rules sound like typical Matt Ward fair. Nothing surprising there.
Except Ward didn't write it...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Someday people will figure out it has more to do with the company than just one writer.
Who wrote it then? Because it sure reads like a lot of his other work. Higher than usual strengths, lower than probably necessary APs, special rules handed out on a platter. Multiple new units and/or renaming of existing stuff.
Didn't you just describe every new Codex/Army Book?
Except the Chaos Space Marine Codex which has been an utter failure
Jayden63 wrote: The rules sound like typical Matt Ward fair. Nothing surprising there.
Except Ward didn't write it...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Someday people will figure out it has more to do with the company than just one writer.
Who wrote it then? Because it sure reads like a lot of his other work. Higher than usual strengths, lower than probably necessary APs, special rules handed out on a platter. Multiple new units and/or renaming of existing stuff.
Jeremy Vetock.
I have no idea who that is. LOL Well, best of luck, the internets can be brutal.
Vetock has only been with GW since the 90s. I'm sure he knows enough to ignore the internets.
And his bio and other army books that he has written are all right here in this thread. Reading is fundamental
Jayden63 wrote: The rules sound like typical Matt Ward fair. Nothing surprising there.
Except Ward didn't write it...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Someday people will figure out it has more to do with the company than just one writer.
Who wrote it then? Because it sure reads like a lot of his other work. Higher than usual strengths, lower than probably necessary APs, special rules handed out on a platter. Multiple new units and/or renaming of existing stuff.
Didn't you just describe every new Codex/Army Book?
Except the Chaos Space Marine Codex which has been an utter failure
If you took a regular landspeeder (or the scout version) and mounted the Plasma Guns on the TML mounts, do you think you would get a lot of complaints because it was too small?
They do have a point in not having these models shown just yet and having images either hosted or displayed prominently on this website. Less trouble= good for everyone involved.
Right, because it's a huge deal not to be able to show pictures.. It's ONE click and opens up a new tab so you can view the pictures easier. Or we can have what EVERY OTHER thread with pictures has, which is everyone quoting the same fracking person and spamming endlessly the same pictures until you have literally pages of the same picture.
But we should probably avoid having an off-topic conversation about policy in the Dark Angels thread.
Such as it is, until we get more DA info, there is little left to discuss other than what other rules could be housed within the codex, how good the codex will be under Jeremy, and the aesthetics of the Daft Punks space marine chapter....
IcedCrow wrote:
So the Dark Angels codex is supposedly up next and the author of all things unholy and silver is the author of this book. Should we expect Cypher and the Grand Master of the Dark Angels to really be BFFs from childhood, exchanging battlfield stories while one upping Draigo and sticking colonoscopy bags on a trio of bloodthirsters while lulzing? Will their unique flyer be as cheap and spammed as the night scythes? Which unit do you feel will be spammed to hell and back or do you think it will be multiple units this time around?
My guess is that either the bikers or the deathwing terminators are going to be jacked up in unholy power and dropped in points to make perfect cookie-cutter netlists. Either that or dark angels tactical marines will drop in points and receive a free plasma cannon upgrade. Those sound fairly reasonable right? Better yet, the new librarian powers. Mr. Ward can paruse the sweet fantasy spell lists and come up with some gems like an imitation of Pit of Shades or Purple Sun or the 13th spell! That would be pretty cool and epic for the win. Librarian walks up to any unit he wants, casts the 13th spell of Dark Angels Awesome and 4D6 of your models turn into little monklets with no save of any kind allowed. He should cost about 50 points too. And be an elite that you can take three of to fill one slot. That sounds about balanced to me.
What do you think? Will dark green become the new silver or do you think the man has the capability to actually write something that isn't five steps above everything else in power? And then... how will the established background of the Dark Angels chapter get flushed down the toilet and rewritten? Perhaps the Dark Angels are really a bunch of circus clowns now that travel from world to world looking for "the fallen" clowns from the trapeze that they lost on Galgamair XI when their chaplain was swapping tactical advice with a keeper of secrets in the break room?
Will this be the next broken optimizers list of choice? We shall see soon.
Okay, so those giant ball maces the terminators are wielding. Please tell me they've got an AP 2 or 3 and not the BRB's AP 4. No power armor should survive getting hit by that.
I thought it was a unique USR called Smite? I seem to recall hearing that it made their initial round 1 attacks S10AP2 and strike at initiative. Still, if it is just smash that is still awesome.
Ronin_eX wrote: I thought it was a unique USR called Smite? I seem to recall hearing that it made their initial round 1 attacks S10AP2 and strike at initiative. Still, if it is just smash that is still awesome.
From what I've read, Petre is the only one to come up with the assumption that it's Smash. Besides, if they did have Smash, their attacks would always be AP2.
From what we've heard so far, this looks to be a unique special rule where they're simply S10 AP2 on the charge, without sacrificing attacks.
Only lame if we assume GW wanted them to behave in a similar way to a current rule. But a first-round (or charge?) only combat buff (at least to the extent of S10 AP2) is non-existent. Furious Assault doesn't quite give them the punch they wanted (they were looking for really high lethality levels, we're talking WFB heavy cav charge here) and Smash is not limited to the first round. To get the desired effect of a devastating opening attack that could kill anything (even other hammer-terminators) a new rule would be required.
It is a rule that fits a unique paradigm and it interacts with their basic loadout (high S with AP4) to make them act very differently than your average assault unit. These guys are vulnerable to tarpit tactics but if you let them charge what they want then that thing is probably gone. They really fit the heavy cav/knight theme.
If all they got was Smash then they would just be more flexible Hammernators with no downside of striking last. That, to me, would be a little lamer than a unit that requires a bit of planning and forethought. I wonder if Vetock's WFB experience is driving his design? Since Dark Angels seem to be copping Space Brettonia in this go around (which I love as I am a fan of Arthurian legend and the Chancon de Roland). Making the Dark Angels function like a cavalry-heavy WFB army is certainly a unique take that I can get behind.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Is it me, or is the flyer just a kitbash of the stormtalon, but with wings? Well at least I know I can use mine soon, then... (and not putting a load of candles on it either)
Lurv the termies, completely. Dark knights are very cool.
The landspeeder Mobile Worship Platform(tm) is not to my taste.
This is about how I feel about the whole thing. I feel there are fans out there that did a better job kitbashing chibitalons into a much nicer look than what gw has done. perhaps I can find some cheap talons and do my own converting for a better look.
the landspeeder confuses me. It doesn't have any extra weapons, just another guy and some odd looking cargo in the passenger seat. the guy in the top looks like hes playing some kind of 40k death organ or something...I dunno. Hopefully the rules make at least some sense of the monstrosity.
I love the termies, hopefully their maces will be better than standard ones or something to make buying them an actual probability (unless they are a multi-kit). The knights are also fantastic.
the landspeeder confuses me. It doesn't have any extra weapons, just another guy and some odd looking cargo in the passenger seat. the guy in the top looks like hes playing some kind of 40k death organ or something...I dunno. Hopefully the rules make at least some sense of the monstrosity.
I just want to know where is the lower body and legs of the guy in the front gunner copula? Seriously, the guy must be chopped in half and have nothing from the waist down as there is no where to put it. Especially at the size of PA leggins.
pretre wrote: Someday people will figure out it has more to do with the company than just one writer.
And some day people will stop apologising for badly written Codices that somehow always happen to have the same guy's name on them.
What's the last codex that no one complained about?
Seriously I think every rulebook in every system gets picked on by its players. I'm sure that if you were to ask Warmahoardes players if their "codex X" was overpowered/underpowered/poorly written (and I'm not talking about the great PP vs. GW debate, but rather purely within PP rules system) that you're going to find people who will say yes and be able to provide examples. Flaws (or perceived flaws) in the any game system part reality (as in yes they should have done this/that/the other) and it's part player bias and wishlisting. There's not one game in the past 20+ years that my gaming circles couldn't pick apart and point out flaws on when we sat down and started discussing the good, the bad, and the ugly. That goes for CCGs, pen and papers, tabletops or MMOs....and that includes GW. But GW isn't ridiculously gakky, it's got it's flaws, sure, but it's got a lot of flavor and is hardly unplayable.
Robbietobbie wrote: Looking at the deathwing i'd reckon there's ten torso's in there. Or the robes are optional, which would be pretty cool too
5 backs, 10 fronts from the looks of things. That's a lot of fronts to stick in a box. Kinda surprised they went to the effort.
We really need to see sprue pics for this one because it looks great.
That termie set looks really good to me. Nice models and a lot extra stuff to spruce up my existing Deathwing. I just love those maces and flails. Between the stuff on the upgrade sprue from 4th, the shoulderpads from FW and this new set we're going to have some really nice looking termies. Can't wait to get kitbashing and getting them onto the field.
Robbietobbie wrote: Looking at the deathwing i'd reckon there's ten torso's in there. Or the robes are optional, which would be pretty cool too
5 backs, 10 fronts from the looks of things. That's a lot of fronts to stick in a box. Kinda surprised they went to the effort.
We really need to see sprue pics for this one because it looks great.
How do you think the Wings on top of the Sergeant in the Command Squad are done? Same for the Apothecary bits on top?
Both of those look to be mounted on what would normally be the "back" of a terminator torso to me, but I'm not sure.
I hope they are just bits that stick onto the back, rather than attached to the top of the front, I'd love to work the robes into all my terminator squads, instead of just giving them to the knights.
Vladsimpaler wrote: So it begins...I bet that it will be about 15 hours after this codex is released when you start seeing these kinds of conversions hahaha
WE ARE AMPLIFIED.
Well, it seems that the loyalist Dark angels are the Fallen after all if the ravenwing are mounting sonic weapons
Vladsimpaler wrote: So it begins...I bet that it will be about 15 hours after this codex is released when you start seeing these kinds of conversions hahaha
Y'know I just can't imagine the Dark Angels listening to Disco or Daft Punk - I always thought they'd be more into Type O Negative:
Vengeance Landspeeder look is kinda growing on me, after a few days. It's just the price point that isn't. I have several spare speeders that were about a fiver each on eBay... far more likely to mash two of them together to make my own Vengeance. ON GW. For their prices.
Meh, it would have been okay had they just left the gunner in his usual spot. It's the forward gun mount and the really lazy fill in his old spot that ruin it.
Testify wrote: I really don't see the problem with the new speeder. What don't people like about it?
For me its the 'stretch' aspect, the dinky sticky-out turbine engines on the dinky sticky-out wings, the shine or huge plasma... 'thing' on the on back, and the oddly positioned gunner and DJ... I don't feel it looks good, or that it looks 'Space Marine'.
some of this looks promising... may have to dust off the old Dark Angels box that has been under the bed since 6th broke. I just hope GW didn't take out the Company Veterans Squad...
I quite like the Knights for my DA allies, but even I'm worried about how OP they feel; they'll essentially always hit first, 2+ to hit, no armour save, probably instant death, and with concussive. So the only thing that stands a chance of surviving long enough to strike back would be a monstrous creature or a hero character, and they'll probably be disadvantaged?
How are you meant to counter them without some serious tailoring?
I might also need to get the dreadnaught, price pending (20% reseller I imagine).
I like the terminators and the flyers. For the rest...bleh.
Have they changed the fluff? The Dark Angels always struck me as an order of Knights....not they seem to be going down the route of Warrior Monks.
I thought the "religous zealots" chapter title was already claimed by Black Templars.
Herzlos wrote: I quite like the Knights for my DA allies, but even I'm worried about how OP they feel; they'll essentially always hit first, 2+ to hit, no armour save, probably instant death, and with concussive. So the only thing that stands a chance of surviving long enough to strike back would be a monstrous creature or a hero character, and they'll probably be disadvantaged?
Tar pit them with something cheap?
Shoot them?
Anything you usually do to deal with cc-units more powerful than you are?
Herzlos wrote: I quite like the Knights for my DA allies, but even I'm worried about how OP they feel; they'll essentially always hit first, 2+ to hit, no armour save, probably instant death, and with concussive. So the only thing that stands a chance of surviving long enough to strike back would be a monstrous creature or a hero character, and they'll probably be disadvantaged?
How are you meant to counter them without some serious tailoring?
like anything else you want to counter: lose to them a couple times, then you can get a feel for how to beat them. If they are beasts at close combat, don't engage them, shoot them. if they have a high save, don't waste lascannons at them, shoot a lot of bolters or a big AP 1 template at them.
Its called experience. GW isn't going to give out the answers, you have to figure them out yourself.
I like the terminators and the flyers. For the rest...bleh.
Have they changed the fluff? The Dark Angels always struck me as an order of Knights....not they seem to be going down the route of Warrior Monks.
I thought the "religous zealots" chapter title was already claimed by Black Templars.
Loyalists answer to Word Bearers?
they have always been of the Knights Templar/ warrior monk archetype, hence the robes and the secrect.
Praxiss wrote: Oh, ok. I'm not really up on SM fluff - I thought the Templars had the monopoly on religous fervour.
Im curious to see the if the rules for that Land Speeder make up for the model.
the Black Templars are just zealots for the Emperor. They're not so much into worshipping him as being ever-vigilant for a new uprising, hence the secrecy about the number of "crusades" they have.
Praxiss wrote: Oh, ok. I'm not really up on SM fluff - I thought the Templars had the monopoly on religous fervour.
Im curious to see the if the rules for that Land Speeder make up for the model.
I don't think any Space Marines have a monopoly on that. It's a basic theme for all Space Marines (and a fair bit of it injected in the Guard with preachers; also Sisters and Inquisition).
That said, Templars obviously run a 11th to 12th century crusades vibe. Dark Angels always struck me more as a play on the high gothic 15th or even 16th century church, references to the church's schism and early echos of the Inquisition (Interrogator-Chaplains) included.
Praxiss wrote: Oh, ok. I'm not really up on SM fluff - I thought the Templars had the monopoly on religous fervour.
Im curious to see the if the rules for that Land Speeder make up for the model.
I don't think any Space Marines have a monopoly on that. It's a basic theme for all Space Marines (and a fair bit of it injected in the Guard with preachers; also Sisters and Inquisition).
That said, Templars obviously run a 11th to 12th century crusades vibe. Dark Angels always struck me more as a play on the high gothic 15th or even 16th century church, references to the church's schism and early echos of the Inquisition (Interrogator-Chaplains) included.
Well. Dark Angels are one of the ultimate easter-egg armies.
Catholic Church often claims its founding myth in Jesus' "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (The name Peter meaning "rock" or "stone" - and him being the first Pope of the Roman Catholic Church). Later Luther was seen to have split that church (or the Rock) with the Protestant reformation.
Someone was clearly channeling their confirmation/history classes in the original Dark Angels background.
Herzlos wrote: I quite like the Knights for my DA allies, but even I'm worried about how OP they feel; they'll essentially always hit first, 2+ to hit, no armour save, probably instant death, and with concussive. So the only thing that stands a chance of surviving long enough to strike back would be a monstrous creature or a hero character, and they'll probably be disadvantaged?
How are you meant to counter them without some serious tailoring?
I didn't know taking some bolters was considered serious tailoring now
Well you take Kool Aid intravenously, everything looks amazing!
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Zweischneid wrote: True. But Cruddace stuff is almost as bad as the abominations Kelly keeps churning out.
But Cruddace's problems are different. The Guard Codex puts me to sleep. The GK Codex puts me into an apoplectic rage. The Guard Codex, for all its snore-inducing foibles is still a Guard Codex. The Guard remained the Guard after Cruddace was done with them. Same goes for the Tyranids (even if he did give us a bunch of Tyranids with really stupid names). The Grey Knights lost their soul.
They took one of the most pretentious neck-beard fetish books from the darkest era of no-fun 40K, best forgotten forever, and injected it with a healthy dose of classic 2nd Edition 40K tonque-in-cheek, flavoured with mythology/history easter-eggs (see DA above).
And as an aside, they literally expanded the scope of the game by adding both the currently lowest-model count list (ideal for beginners) AND the list with the by far greatest hobbyist-conversion DIY-potential, giving the Grey Knight book alone more hobby potential than the next 3 to 5 Codexes behind it together.
You want to read a Codex that lost its soul by blatantly catering to the pretentiousness of socially awkward prepubescent boys? Read the Dark Eldar Codex.
They took one of the most pretentious neck-beard fetish books from the darkest era of no-fun 40K, best forgotten forever, and injected it with a healthy dose of classic 2nd Edition 40K tonque-in-cheek, flavoured with mythology/history easter-eggs (see DA above).
And then they added enough Mary Sue to make this look tame in comparison
I just can't shake the feeling or impression that the cover thing for the passenger is a sticker, like you'd get in old GI Joe transformers etc, to add detail the model never had on flat surfaces.
Other than that the speeder isn't too bad. I like the termi's the most, but am confuzzled on the price jump for us poor uk folks, who's betting all termi's hit this price in the annual rise.
Zweischneid wrote: Well. Dark Angels are one of the ultimate easter-egg armies.
Catholic Church often claims its founding myth in Jesus' "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (The name Peter meaning "rock" or "stone" - and him being the first Pope of the Roman Catholic Church). Later Luther was seen to have split that church (or the Rock) with the Protestant reformation.
Someone was clearly channeling their confirmation/history classes in the original Dark Angels background.
I'm a high school religious culture teacher... and I never picked up on that... geez I feel silly now.
Zweischneid wrote: You want to read a Codex that lost its soul by blatantly catering to the pretentiousness of socially awkward prepubescent boys? Read the Dark Eldar Codex.
The Dark Eldar did not have a soul to lose. They had less backstory than a minor Star Wars character, only the barest rudiments of a motivation and not a single shred of originality anywhere. The new book, for all its numerous faults, at least tried and failed to make things better.
Necronic Angel wrote: So do we know if any of the terminators or bikers are 2 wound models yet?
yea, Deathwing knights and RW black knights are all 2 wounded
Amd we have a source for this, right?
I haven't heard anyone posting or reposting new info say anything about 2 wounds (just the opposite in that the special deathwing guys are regular termies except for WS5 and extra options. There was the old rumor from months back that said the above though.
No one has confirmed the 2 wound rumor and have actually posted the opposite that they're just ws5 and 15 points more for the squad. Let's not start having a chicken little contest just yet...
warboss wrote: No one has confirmed the 2 wound rumor and have actually posted the opposite that they're just ws5 and 15 points more for the squad. Let's not start having a chicken little contest just yet...
Love the new models, I think i might start a raven wing army
As the only pure Ravenwing player I have ever met, or even heard of, I welcome a partner!
And it finally dawned on me, the flyers bolter weapon looks like the exhaust from a Zonda
OH! And generally fielding 7 speeders in my army, I can tell you this. When a speeder gets immobilized the pintle weapon's location really reduces its fire arc (90 degrees.) That vengeance has at least 270. So basically its GW modelling for advantage
warboss wrote: No one has confirmed the 2 wound rumor and have actually posted the opposite that they're just ws5 and 15 points more for the squad. Let's not start having a chicken little contest just yet...
It is the right day for it.
Or not, given that we're clearly all still here and that whole premise was the definintion of silly to begin with!
On topic - I don't think DW Terminators (any variety) will be getting 2 wounds, but... who knows?
They took one of the most pretentious neck-beard fetish books from the darkest era of no-fun 40K, best forgotten forever, and injected it with a healthy dose of classic 2nd Edition 40K tonque-in-cheek, flavoured with mythology/history easter-eggs (see DA above).
And as an aside, they literally expanded the scope of the game by adding both the currently lowest-model count list (ideal for beginners) AND the list with the by far greatest hobbyist-conversion DIY-potential, giving the Grey Knight book alone more hobby potential than the next 3 to 5 Codexes behind it together.
You want to read a Codex that lost its soul by blatantly catering to the pretentiousness of socially awkward prepubescent boys? Read the Dark Eldar Codex.
Odd I thought the GK Codex just decided to create a souless and dull shell of the previous Codex. zero imagination - everything is a Nemesis "something" and has some of the worst fluff and characters since the game began.
The Dark Eldar Codex at least tried to examine and expand on what had already been written as opossed to just recycling the same words.
I can't honestly see what is bad about the DE codex in comparison adn its certianly better than the Necron one.
Well since i am the original picture poster and sitting with the WD i will call that confirmed
GW is putting a statline in their preview?
On page 29 of the white dwarf there are 4 pictures from the Codex.. elite section, ravenwing section, a picture and dark angel successor chapters... The pictures are small but not small enough so you cant see the cost price and the unit stats..
Take normal DW termis can take a plasma Cannon for 25 pts.. The only stat nr i cant make out is their attack.. I would say its a 3.
Lars Emil of Denmark, from the Faeit 212 inbox wrote:
More tid bits from WD of note:
- In the battle report, the DA scouts are listed under Troops, so it looks like they have finally been moved to that section
- the DW terminators are still listed as Elite, so if the rumour that you don't need Belial to field a DW army is true, there must be another way of doing it (e.g. selecting a Comp. Master in TDA or something - there is (as far as I can tell from the small picture) no rule to make them Troops under their own entry.
- RW Knights and Sammael have the Skilled Rider USR - DW Knight Champion (called Knight Master) is mentioned as wielding "the flail of the Unforgiven" (no rules sited), considering the name, perhaps it has special rules.
- in the battle report Adam Troke (playing DA) selects Flakk missiles for his tactical marine missile launcher, so it's not only Devastators, who can take that upgrade.
- LS Vengeance is listed as a Heavy Support entry.
- RW still have homing beacons.
- and in response to a comment I read: Yes, DA of course still has normal Land Speeders.
-In the battle report Adam's librarian I TDA has two mastery levels, so apparently you can buy more than the one.
-And his Chaplain is an HQ entry, so apparently no 3 for 1 Elite choice like the rumours said
- And the Dark Talon has hover mode
Not sure if this has been asked or such but would anybody mind hazarding a guess as to whether Sternguards, Vanguards and the Crusader/Redeemer are in the new 'dex?
decoste007xt wrote: In regards to 2W DW terminators comparison to GK Terminators... OF course DW Terminators would whipe the floor with them, Storm shields > All.
The 2W thing was already debunked.
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SoloFalcon1138 wrote: what units were used in the battle report? usually, for a new army, they try and use all the unique and newnunits they can.
Yeah, I'm thinking the rumors of the DA having a Fort in their army list, a Mole Mortar techmarine thing, the Power Armor Inner Circle with Shields and all the other outlandish stuff are pretty much dead at this point.
I always find it interesting how most people(in real life) that I talk to will hate on some pictures, that sounds exactly like the internet hate(surprise surprise) yet the second it is seen in person, they really just don't have a problem with it.
Personally I have liked almost every kit that has come out(only didnt like the mutilators) and am interested in seeing how the DW force org chart is going to work out. I was interested in taking termies and bikes as troops from that list, however I have a sneaking suspicion that they will make it so it is primary detachment only, like they did for the chaos book.
Also the rules for the vengence land speeder seem pretty wicked. The stealth generator sounds like it would make a gunline army behind an aegis just awesome, or an advancing ravenwing army as well. Everyone that turbo boosts turn one getting a 3+ cover save. Interesting to see the points breakdown in the book.
Well I'm glad for all the DA players that will have new models to play with. I'm not that thrilled with the model designs myself. Kind of a bummer really. The choas release was the same way. Few things I liked but the rest was either meh or terrible.
On a positive note as bad as some of those look they don't look worse than the horror that is the Necron flayed ones. That's something at least....I guess.
You want to read a Codex that lost its soul by blatantly catering to the pretentiousness of socially awkward prepubescent boys? Read the Dark Eldar Codex.
I happen to like Dar Eldar and I took offense at that.
well the termies look pretty damn awesome, as do the new ravenwing. shame about the new flyer though :p im still going to buy it, just its going to need a conversion. same with the landspeeder
Not a bad thing, but welcome to the WFB world DA players. That smite rule is, in effect, exactly like a flail from WFB. Flails grant +2 str which will normally cause 2+ to wound and -2 armor save. Smite takes the AP from 4 to 2. Real inventive if you ask me....
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