Deadshot wrote: Does anyone think that the Bareheaded guy in the Command Squad looks a lot like the DV Chaos Lord?
GW's been using that pose a lot lately. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. This is a case of it definitely not working. Aside from just looking overall stiff, it looks like the Commander just doesn't know what to do with his sword.
The Standard Bearer looks a bit "retro", specifically the helmet.
I'm pretty sure that standard bearer is the old metal one (obviously now finecast) with a new banner.and left arm.
As a non-DA player, but looking for whatever bits I might cannibalise for my Crimson Tears I can only really say that the Storm Shields interest me. Maybe a few other parts, but I certainly won't be buying any full kits.
Ravenwing Knights/Ravenwing Command - pretty good, obviously quite blinged up with iconography; not a fan of the slight variation on the Mk.6 helmets. Doesn't look right.
Deathwing knights - bleurgh. Power Mauls look like censors, Non-helmeted termies always look silly imo (but then I'm of the, all marines should be wearing helmets persuasion). robes on Terminators seem a bit silly too.
Belial - odd pose , far too static etc.
Deathwing - good range of options, nice use of DA iconography (though there's too much for them to be of much use to non DA players)
'Landspeeders' - Horrible, just horrible. Their rules must be amazing if GW expects people to buy these in anything approaching significant numbers.
Flier - Guess it looks okay, but I'm not a fan of the SM flier aesthetic or fliers in general.
Asmodai - need to have a better look, but at this point I prefer the old model.
Really liking the deathwing models. Going to buy a box of those for sure. Still think the price of the dark talon is ridiculous so i'll most likely convert one out of a storm talon. Hoping the deathwing box leaves me with enough stuff to.bling out the rest of my terminators after building some knights
Well ... looks like Darks Angels will remain my flagship army for this edition. Hadn't planed on changing that but was thinking about retiring from the hobby ... guess not lol
I do like how you can have both assault and tac terminators in a squad Really provides some good balance and support that each squad individually needed on their own
Alfndrate wrote: I do like how you can have both assault and tac terminators in a squad Really provides some good balance and support that each squad individually needed on their own
Isn't that something DA have had for a while now?
I can't be sure, but I think so.
The new DA codex is opening up some interesting 'Counts As' Terminator army options...
I know a lot of people are really hating on the new speeders, but I for one can only see a great opportunity for some kit bashing to make them look superb.
Granted, one shouldn't have to kit bash to get a model looking "right" but this one should be easy.
The rumoured pricepoint suggested for the new speeders its whats putting me off atm, over twice the price of a standard speeder or storm for a slightly larger kit that I'm a little uneasy on seems really high to me (though I dont buy many tanks this could just be a personal thing)
Man I've been wanting a molded standard for the Brother Bethor forever. My freehand skills for big things like banners suck sack. I really hope they make a few more like they did for the Blood Angels. I'd also be very happy if they made tactical squad shoulder pads like the one on that standard bearer too. I was really surprised they didn't make a simple sword/wing pad before now. The metal ones suck and they're too small.
Just have to wonder. Will the players who stopped using the DA codex come back to using an actual DA codex or will they go back to a different codex and use "counts as" DA?
Davor wrote: Just have to wonder. Will the players who stopped using the DA codex come back to using an actual DA codex or will they go back to a different codex and use "counts as" DA?
...That would depend, I guess?
Hey, if I have a bunch of PA marines with bolters and some special weapons, maybe a heavy weapon here and there, why wouldn't I get a couple of units out of a new marine 'dex and have fun playing that counts-as for a while? Keeps things fresh, keeps me painting stuff without starting a whole new army, if you play against a small group of opponents it gives them something fresh as well (and keeps them on their toes - who's to say you're bringing the most recent stuff today? ) and it's generally a fun way to enjoy the hobby.
I'm quite sure a lot of folks around here do that, too so yeah, some of us will play DA for a while. Some might even have some variation of green paint on their models That doesn't mean they won't be playing with a different codex again 3 months from now, and another one the week after
Found this today, its in spanish but the pictures do all the talking. Even has some rules visible for Sammy, bit difficult to read some of the text as picture quality isn't optimal.
REALLY?!? I mean, that whole flier looks awesome, they've fixed everything there was to fix about the stormtalon and then some (okay it's still ridiculous but in an awesome way!) and they have to put a fethin' temple around it's hull?
I mean, I know a dremel some plasticard will fix that in half an hour's work but really? **THAT** close, GW, and yet you screw up...
Oh well, pictures seem to confirm there's a cyclone missile launcher with the deathwing termies. That's good
Bolognesus wrote: REALLY?!? I mean, that whole flier looks awesome, they've fixed everything there was to fix about the stormtalon and then some (okay it's still ridiculous but in an awesome way!) and they have to put a fethin' temple around it's hull?
Looking at the army shot in the link, it looks like there is an option to build it without the temple.
Yeah, I was thinking I was going to be able to split a second DV box with a friend who plays chaos, he just wants to chaos minis and the rulebook... then another friend pointed out that he could use the DA minis as Fallen, just leave them all black.
Bolognesus wrote: REALLY?!? I mean, that whole flier looks awesome, they've fixed everything there was to fix about the stormtalon and then some (okay it's still ridiculous but in an awesome way!) and they have to put a fethin' temple around it's hull?
Going by the army shot with both flyers, it looks like the icon piece is either optional or just for the variant with the rift cannon, as the other one doesn't appear to have it.
Bolognesus wrote: REALLY?!? I mean, that whole flier looks awesome, they've fixed everything there was to fix about the stormtalon and then some (okay it's still ridiculous but in an awesome way!) and they have to put a fethin' temple around it's hull?
Going by the army shot with both flyers, it looks like the icon piece is either optional or just for the variant with the rift cannon, as the other one doesn't appear to have it.
...Hmm, you have a point. Well, that's a good thing
As a long time DA player I was worried about what we were getting. For the most part I am very impressed with what I see. So far the only think I don’t like is Belial and the speeders. The flyer and terminators look great. Finally plasma cannon totting terminators. The only real disappointment is Belial, they took so long to make a model for him and it looks like crap, but I can let that pass and just convert one. The only problem I have now is that I already have a full company in PA and full company in TA. Now I have to decide what to add and what to move to the back of the shelf.
fidel wrote: Well does anyone know if I can still keep my cyclone missile launchers for my TH/SS termies!
No promises, but looking at the entry from the WD in full blur-o-vision, the entry for Deathwing Special Weapon options appears to read as follows:
"For every five models in the squad one Deathwing Terminator may choose one of the following options:
...
Take a cyclone missile launcher Xpts"
So yes, it appears Lightning Claw or TH/SS termis will still be able to tote their cyclones, at least, there's nothing visible restricting them from doing so there.
It's also probably a sound tactical decision too, because Split Fire is done on a per-model basis, not a per-weapon basis, meaning if you had your Cyclone on a Storm Bolter guy, his Storm Bolter fire would likely be wasted (assuming you still get to fire it in addition to a storm bolter)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just noticing Deathwing Terminators don't have Combat Squads.
I hope Ravenwing still do.
A bit bummed by that, I was looking forward to using 10 man Deathwing squads to make a 5 man with 2 heavy weapons.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Yeah, I was thinking I was going to be able to split a second DV box with a friend who plays chaos, he just wants to chaos minis and the rulebook... then another friend pointed out that he could use the DA minis as Fallen, just leave them all black.
Gorramit, man!
This is most likely what I'm going to do. I've not been happy with my Chaos army, probably gonna scope the DA codex, see what I like, what I can make, and then probably buy the DW terminators, and some Chaos bits off the internet.
MarsNZ wrote: Super Deathwing and Super Ravenwing added to yet another niche loyalist codex while CSM codex (covering 9 legions) is stale as it's ever been.
Yay Marines!
GW's been like this for a while now. The whole issue of "do we need green/red/grey/blue/black marine dex's" is pretty moot by this point....
MarsNZ wrote: Super Deathwing and Super Ravenwing added to yet another niche loyalist codex while CSM codex (covering 9 legions) is stale as it's ever been.
Yay Marines!
I'm curious if you've even seen the new CSM codex, seeing how there is quite a difference between the last one and the now current one. Contrary to the constant murmuring of those anti-GW people who still buy GW anyways, GW has been improving significantly in many areas since I came into the hobby. The proof is in the quality of their plastic sculpts such as the Terminators and the remastered StormTalon, although the ChurchTalon and ChurchSpeeder Vengeance are awful and they should be ashamed.
MarsNZ wrote: Super Deathwing and Super Ravenwing added to yet another niche loyalist codex while CSM codex (covering 9 legions) is stale as it's ever been.
Yay Marines!
It's not as stale as that complaint. Chaos Marine Legions have never had independent books whereas loyalist have had them since for almost 20 years. If you haven't gotten used to that by now, you need to find another game.
MarsNZ wrote: Super Deathwing and Super Ravenwing added to yet another niche loyalist codex while CSM codex (covering 9 legions) is stale as it's ever been.
Yay Marines!
It's not as stale as that complaint. Chaos Marine Legions have never had independent books whereas loyalist have had them since for almost 20 years. If you haven't gotten used to that by now, you need to find another game.
While this is true, I have to agree somewhat here with MarsNZ...while seperate codexes were not there, there was a undivided list section and then a section where "if you do this and that, you are now a Iron warriors army, you get an extra heavy." or "you are rubric thousand sons terminators, you have 2 wounds". Even now the vanilla space marine codex lets you run themed armies with chapter tactics (Khan, Vulkan etc.). All we get is, "take a lord with mark and your elite of of said mark becomes troop" whoopidy freaking doo....Also they remove all the demons (even the horrible generic stat one in last codex) except for the demon prince (which lets be honest, its more on an accension thing than a demon), but then make the Helldrake and Forgefiend/mauler look like a combo of demon and machine (dinobots)......sooooooooooo are we demonic or not? Pick a direction already, GW making a codex is like driving through Pep-Boys with an industrial magnet.....
Sadly GW make what makes them the most money and loyalists marines of all flavours do this. I have my own opinion on the subject but will leave it for another time.
Anyone else notice that not all of the hooded Deathwing are helmetless? Some of them are definitely wearing helmets under the hoods.
I'm interested in seeing what Sammael's Warlord Trait does. Originally I was guessing it was his RW as Troops rule, but that is usually in the army list selection (as it was in CSM).
Also, it is really bloody-arse fuzzy but it looks like DW Knights have 2 attacks but the Knight Master has 3. Not too shabby.
MarsNZ wrote: Super Deathwing and Super Ravenwing added to yet another niche loyalist codex while CSM codex (covering 9 legions) is stale as it's ever been.
Yay Marines!
It's not as stale as that complaint. Chaos Marine Legions have never had independent books whereas loyalist have had them since for almost 20 years. If you haven't gotten used to that by now, you need to find another game.
The problem is GW removing as many restrictions from army building as possible, the 3rd edition Chaos Codex did a great job of representing the various legions, the thing is, now, most of the things that those legions "unlocked" like extra Obliterators and extra Raptors, are just things anyone can take. Basically, GW are saying it's up to us to build our armies fluffily, rather than have them provide the guidelines for doing so.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just noticing Deathwing Terminators don't have Combat Squads.
I hope Ravenwing still do.
A bit bummed by that, I was looking forward to using 10 man Deathwing squads to make a 5 man with 2 heavy weapons.
It doesn't look like the Veteran Squad does either. Maybe it was folded until a DA specific rule?
Looks like they do to me, their special rules appear to be as follows:
And They Shall Know No Fear
Combat Squads
<Third thing I can't make out>
MajorWesJanson wrote:
Drunkspleen wrote: On Sammael's entry he has "Warlord Trait: Rapid Manouevre"
Looks like in-codex traits are the way of the future for all things, not just chaos.
Interesting too that he is an IC when on his Jetbike now.
Perhaps Rapid Manuever is a trait that makes Bike squads into troops?
Unlikely because if you rolled for traits and turned that up it would be much too late to make use of it having already built your army.
SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Drunkspleen wrote: On Sammael's entry he has "Warlord Trait: Rapid Manouevre"
Looks like in-codex traits are the way of the future for all things, not just chaos.
Was this a surprise? The BRB even states that there would be other Warlord traits possible in the future.
I wouldn't say a surprise, but I found it interesting because nobody talked about them in rumours at all (then again, the rumours didn't seem very accurate either).
The problem is GW removing as many restrictions from army building as possible, the 3rd edition Chaos Codex did a great job of representing the various legions, the thing is, now, most of the things that those legions "unlocked" like extra Obliterators and extra Raptors, are just things anyone can take.
Except they also unlocked special rules for certain things in the army, like Iron Legions could buy Tank Hunter, Alpha legion Infiltrate, etc.
And while GW is removing restrictions on specific units, removing flavour and taking a mixed-bag/special character-centric approach FW have taken the alternative viewpoint (in their excellent first HH book) and given us actual sub-sections for Legion rules that contain:
1. Legion-specific special rules. 2. Specialist/unique units for that Legion only and unit modifications that modify the base list. 3. Special characters (that aren't required for the above two things, but often have some rules of their own).
I look at the first HH book and see everything that the new Chaos book could have been. I see a worthy successor to the 3.5 'Dex. I see one of the best books GW has produced since... uhh... the current Ork Codex! I look at this new Dark Angel book and all I can think is "God help us if fielding a Deathwing army requires Belial...".
Did I miss this? Dont see it in the book entry. The only thing I can see that has changed for sammy's speeder is that its now a fast skimmer. This would give him a 4+ jink ofc but only when moving 18'' flat out.
Colour me slightly dissapointed =(
Indeed. Let's pray to all Gods dark and benign, that the GW main-line will never again be plagued by an abomination of that kind. I guess I could live with it if they outsource that kind of humour-less, pretentious and stuck-up style of writing 40K to Forge World, as long as they keep the line with the real game crisper and more distinct.
Did I miss this? Dont see it in the book entry. The only thing I can see that has changed for sammy's speeder is that its now a fast skimmer. This would give him a 4+ jink ofc but only when moving 18'' flat out.
Colour me slightly dissapointed =(
His "Night Halo" in the Chapter Relics section is an Iron Halo and further specifies that it grants his Land Speeder a 4+ invuln if he is in it.
Indeed. Let's pray to all Gods dark and benign, that the GW main-line will never again be plagued by an abomination of that kind. I guess I could live with it if they outsource that kind of humour-less, pretentious and stuck-up style of writing 40K to Forge World, as long as they keep the line with the real game crisper and more distinct.
If this is the level of discourse you think is appropriate, why don't you kindly go do it on Warseer, where it'd be welcomed.
Scrollax wrote: Found this today, its in spanish but the pictures do all the talking. Even has some rules visible for Sammy, bit difficult to read some of the text as picture quality isn't optimal.
From what i can make out i believe the Ravensword is strength user and AP 2, with a special rule that i can not make out!
Looks like he also comes with Hit and Run, Scout, Skilled rider and a Warlord trait that looks like Rapid Maneuver or Movement.
Sammael is also (finally) an IC. Among other failures of the previous codex, Sammael not being an IC pretty much ruled out ever seeing him riding a jetbike. Too early to tell, but this could make for some interesting combinations.
Did I miss this? Dont see it in the book entry. The only thing I can see that has changed for sammy's speeder is that its now a fast skimmer. This would give him a 4+ jink ofc but only when moving 18'' flat out.
Colour me slightly dissapointed =(
His "Night Halo" in the Chapter Relics section is an Iron Halo and further specifies that it grants his Land Speeder a 4+ invuln if he is in it.
MarsNZ wrote: Super Deathwing and Super Ravenwing added to yet another niche loyalist codex while CSM codex (covering 9 legions) is stale as it's ever been.
Yay Marines!
It's not as stale as that complaint. Chaos Marine Legions have never had independent books whereas loyalist have had them since for almost 20 years. If you haven't gotten used to that by now, you need to find another game.
The problem is Chaos still can't take rubric/sonic/plague marine terminators, yet a single company from a single chapter apparently needs 3 different units of terminators (some of them newly created out of whole cloth) to fill up their codex.
And make no mistake - if said rubric/sonic/plague marine terminators had gotten a plastic kit we would have seen rules for them. If cultists had gotten a multipart plastic kit they would have had better rules with more options than just stubber/flamer/shotgun for the champ. But we didn't get those kits because those resources were being devoted to creating all-new deathwing knights and legless super landspeeders that didn't need to exist.
MarsNZ wrote: Super Deathwing and Super Ravenwing added to yet another niche loyalist codex while CSM codex (covering 9 legions) is stale as it's ever been.
Yay Marines!
It's not as stale as that complaint. Chaos Marine Legions have never had independent books whereas loyalist have had them since for almost 20 years. If you haven't gotten used to that by now, you need to find another game.
The problem is Chaos still can't take rubric/sonic/plague marine terminators, yet a single company from a single chapter apparently needs 3 different units of terminators (some of them newly created out of whole cloth) to fill up their codex.
Yeah, the state of Chaos force options gets more and more pathetic with every new SM codex.
This is a Dark Angel rumor thread and not a chaos complaint one. Feel free to start another thread to lament what had always been and likely always will be the special treatment loyalist marines get instead of derailing this one.
Sammael on jetbike could work OK even when not an independent character... I ran 30 kroot and a Shas'el off the board with him in CC, even though they got the charge (he did make a ridiculous number of armour saves...).
Mr. S Baldrick wrote: Is there any confirmation if we will have to take Belial to use DW as troops? I know the Knights are Elites but are regular DW terminators?
DW terminators are in the Elite section of the army list. It may take Belial, or it may be a rule for Terminator armored commanders. We don't have the HQ army list pages yet.
Mr. S Baldrick wrote: Is there any confirmation if we will have to take Belial to use DW as troops? I know the Knights are Elites but are regular DW terminators?
MarsNZ wrote: Super Deathwing and Super Ravenwing added to yet another niche loyalist codex while CSM codex (covering 9 legions) is stale as it's ever been.
Yay Marines!
I'm curious if you've even seen the new CSM codex, seeing how there is quite a difference between the last one and the now current one. Contrary to the constant murmuring of those anti-GW people who still buy GW anyways, GW has been improving significantly in many areas since I came into the hobby. The proof is in the quality of their plastic sculpts such as the Terminators and the remastered StormTalon, although the ChurchTalon and ChurchSpeeder Vengeance are awful and they should be ashamed.
No its not, they got:
Raptors with lightning claws, boring unit nobody uses
Obliterators with CC weapons that nobody will use
A flyer, like everybody does
The Forgefiends are cool
All of the rest of the units are almost exactly the same. Marks still do very little. No new cult troops, no legion rules. No upgrades for vehicles to make them anything but Vanilla SM vehicles + spikes. I've been waiting for a decade for them to get a new version of a Predator, Land Raider, or something other than demon engines that all fulfill the same role (Forge fiends and Defilers do the same exact thing). Still lame Demon rules. Cultist introduction is nice but they're still pretty boring. A joke of a codex, actually made me quit 40k for awhile.
Well... we still don't know if Belial will be required to field a Deathwing Army. In the Chaos 'dex we have seen that Lords with a certain mark unlocks cult troops so why can't we expect that you can make "deathwing" characters? If I understood it correctly there is a special rule called "deathwing". Maybe Characters buying this rule unlocks troop terminators.
punkow wrote: Well... we still don't know if Belial will be required to field a Deathwing Army. In the Chaos 'dex we have seen that Lords with a certain mark unlocks cult troops so why can't we expect that you can make "deathwing" characters? If I understood it correctly there is a special rule called "deathwing". Maybe Characters buying this rule unlocks troop terminators.
But what character would that be? It be kinda odd if you could take a 'Captain', give him the 'Deathwing rule', but he ain't Belial?
With Chaos, you've got to cover a whole lot of warbands, legions, armies, etc.. .
Deathwing literally is just those 100 guys. And their Captain happens to be Belial. If it's a bunch of (scoring) Terminators without Belial, it wouldn't be the Deathwing.
Well.... first, DA aren't the only chapter with a full Termie 1st company: Also their successor chapters are able to field huge amounts of termies, and there is no reason for them to have a captain the same as Belial. Second, Belial is the master NOW, while we should be able to represent also previous 1st company masters (Guys like Eldrad, fellow DA Naaman ex. are actually dead but still have rules )
Even then, A Deathwing "Captain" could also be used to represent a Veteran Sergeant who, for the duration of the battle, have command over the forces placed under him (including other members of the Deathwing)
punkow wrote: Well.... first, DA aren't the only chapter with a full Termie 1st company: Also their successor chapters are able to field huge amounts of termies, and there is no reason for them to have a captain the same as Belial.
But they are not 'Deathwing', so unlocking Terminator formations with a 'Deathwing-rule' meant to cover precisely those that are not Deathwing would still be odd.
Second, Belial is the master NOW, while we should be able to represent also previous 1st company masters (Guys like Eldrad, fellow DA Naaman ex. are actually dead but still have rules )
That is, in many ways, the inverse. Yes, Eldrad is dead. But he his an iconic and highly representative character, so he is "in" anyhow. Yours would be more or less the inverse. The wish to move away from the "iconic Deathwing" to a more non-de-script time period.
if he only comes with standard weapons, i can see where some people would like a different loadout...
if he comes with options in the Codex, then he is a man for all seasons...
is it just that he is a special character, too pricey, ugly model, what???
There is no problem with Belial, its just that some people don't want to play using the current master of the Deathwing and so they would like rules that would allow a generic company master to unlock them as troops to represent a previous (or future) Master of the Deathwing.
if he only comes with standard weapons, i can see where some people would like a different loadout...
if he comes with options in the Codex, then he is a man for all seasons...
is it just that he is a special character, too pricey, ugly model, what???
cheers
jah
I think most of the issue is being FORCED to take him, no mater how good or bad he is, its the choice people are wanting.
punkow wrote: Well.... first, DA aren't the only chapter with a full Termie 1st company: Also their successor chapters are able to field huge amounts of termies, and there is no reason for them to have a captain the same as Belial.
But they are not 'Deathwing', so unlocking Terminator formations with a 'Deathwing-rule' meant to cover precisely those that are not Deathwing would still be odd.
They aren't Deathwing in name, but functionally, they are a formation identical to the Deathwing which has no reason to necessarily be fielded alongside Belial.
It's reason enough that you should be able to field Terminators as troops without selecting Belial, which is the core issue, not some theorized "deathwing" rule which probably doesn't exist, and how suitable that name is for the task.
Krellnus wrote: There is no problem with Belial, its just that some people don't want to play using the current master of the Deathwing and so they would like rules that would allow a generic company master to unlock them as troops to represent a previous (or future) Master of the Deathwing.
Isn't Belial's wargear inherited by the next Master of the Deathwing, though? If I recall correctly, his sword is a symbol of his station (and also the reason that allowing TH/SS and dual LC loadouts for him in the 4th edition codex was so stupid).
All DA successor chapters have an Inner Circle all TA equipped 1st company. Also according to the old fluff Azreal is not just the Chapter master of the DA he is Supreme GM over all DA successors. As part of the inner circle they are all required to have a TA first co. Belial only leads the original DA 1st company. Many people, myself included, play a successor chapter and wand to keep it that way. Belial did not even exist until the current codex by Jervis Johnson came out. Johnson made him up for some reason. In the previous codex’ all you had to do to play deathwing was take an HQ in terminator armour. I lot of veterans who have played DA for a long time don’t want to be forced to take a named character just to play an army that they have played for years. DW is a long time trait of DA, forcing us to take a special character to play that army is a little silly when GK can take all termies standard.
Robbietobbie wrote: It does prevent non-dw lists from taking scoring terminators which is probably good for balancing
That's prevented whether you restrict it to Belial or let other Characters do the same thing though, either way you are making it a deathwing list by fielding the necessary HQ.
And honestly, it's probably better for balance if troops are costed with their ability to hold objectives in mind, rather than being elites shoehorned into the troops slot where you are either overpaying for them when they are elite, or underpaying for them when they are troops.
Mr. S Baldrick wrote: Belial did not even exist until the current codex by Jervis Johnson came out.
While I get your point in him not existing as a special character, Belial appears on the DA OoB chart in Codex: Angels of Death from 2nd edition. Of course, this was back before his promotion from 3rd Company Master to Master of the Deathwing.
The pa marines will be fine as.long as they are brought in line with marines codex, it will nice to use a tac squad that isn't 200 pts before a rhino is added lol
Volkov wrote: I have only one issue with the leaked codex...THERE IS NO ALL-SEEING EYE FOR THE MASTER IN LANDSPEEDER
ok... and all-seeing eye is?
Old third edition rule, it basically grants twinlinked to a Ravenwing unit of your choice for each shooting phase (So any ravenwing could be granted it, it doesn't have to be the same one per each shooting phase), it also granted double night fight seeing distance.
So long as the Master of the Ravenwing was on the table anyways.
Volkov wrote: I have only one issue with the leaked codex...THERE IS NO ALL-SEEING EYE FOR THE MASTER IN LANDSPEEDER
ok... and all-seeing eye is?
Old third edition rule, it basically grants twinlinked to a Ravenwing unit of your choice for each shooting phase (So any ravenwing could be granted it, it doesn't have to be the same one per each shooting phase), it also granted double night fight seeing distance.
So long as the Master of the Ravenwing was on the table anyways.
Ya, and that was when you had squads of multi melta attack bikes, or assault cannon lanspeeders, and it was deadly. My gaming group hated that ability so much they called it the 'Master of the asswing re-roll'
Anyhow, its the satellite dish looking thing on the side of his speeder. At least I got the night shield back although its called the night halo, which I assume is because of those slow poke dark eldar
o.k., i see why some people don't want Belial to be mandatory to unlock Termies as troops...
i don't see the big issue...
you can still take a Libby or Chappy to go along with him, and then there is the extra slots at 2000 pts. to fit in the other guy...
also, even though Grey Knights get normal Termie troops, you still need Draigo to unlock Pallies as troops...
would it be better if he only unlocked Knights, but Termies were a standard troop choice???
the other strange thing is that nobody seems to be slagging Sammael...
will he be the only one to unlock bikes as troops, or will the Captain on a bike do the same, like in C:SM???
why are people so riled up over Termies, and not bikes???
no matter what, it will be interesting to see the difference between the FOC choices in this new book, the old one, C:SM, and Grey Knights...
if there is one thing that Codex history has shown, it's that some people are going to be unhappy no matter what, as everyone has such different interpretations of Fluff, "reality", and coolness...
i just want the minis in that badass Termie box...
MarsNZ wrote: Super Deathwing and Super Ravenwing added to yet another niche loyalist codex while CSM codex (covering 9 legions) is stale as it's ever been.
Yay Marines!
It's not as stale as that complaint. Chaos Marine Legions have never had independent books whereas loyalist have had them since for almost 20 years. If you haven't gotten used to that by now, you need to find another game.
The problem is Chaos still can't take rubric/sonic/plague marine terminators, yet a single company from a single chapter apparently needs 3 different units of terminators (some of them newly created out of whole cloth) to fill up their codex.
And make no mistake - if said rubric/sonic/plague marine terminators had gotten a plastic kit we would have seen rules for them. If cultists had gotten a multipart plastic kit they would have had better rules with more options than just stubber/flamer/shotgun for the champ. But we didn't get those kits because those resources were being devoted to creating all-new deathwing knights and legless super landspeeders that didn't need to exist.
I agree, DA also got a new special character while chaos are stuck with same special characters since 3.5.
I have to say, if you're saying asmodai is a new character you've some research to do...
MarsNZ wrote: Super Deathwing and Super Ravenwing added to yet another niche loyalist codex while CSM codex (covering 9 legions) is stale as it's ever been.
Yay Marines!
It's not as stale as that complaint. Chaos Marine Legions have never had independent books whereas loyalist have had them since for almost 20 years. If you haven't gotten used to that by now, you need to find another game.
The problem is Chaos still can't take rubric/sonic/plague marine terminators, yet a single company from a single chapter apparently needs 3 different units of terminators (some of them newly created out of whole cloth) to fill up their codex.
And make no mistake - if said rubric/sonic/plague marine terminators had gotten a plastic kit we would have seen rules for them. If cultists had gotten a multipart plastic kit they would have had better rules with more options than just stubber/flamer/shotgun for the champ. But we didn't get those kits because those resources were being devoted to creating all-new deathwing knights and legless super landspeeders that didn't need to exist.
I agree, DA also got a new special character while chaos are stuck with same special characters since 3.5.
I have to say, if you're saying asmodai is a new character you've some research to do...
asmodi isnt new. he's rather old atually.
i do agree with what your saying about chaos.it seems that they havent really put much thought into it.
Basically people want to take a Libby or chaplain to unlock terminators as troops because a Libby or chaplain has a greater effect on the tabletop than a captain. So essentially there having a sulk because their dark angels might not be as super broken as they want.
However sulking does mean they are playing a DA army in character so at least they are fluff gamers lol
There is, admittedly, 1 Chaplain, so there might be scope for a second special character to lead the Deathwing.
But what, for heaven's sake, is wrong with a Dark Angel force led by a Librarian or Azrael or whatever else to drawn on the Deathwing in the Elite slot?
Yes, these guys are part of the Dark Angels leadership and they can lead Deathwing (as Elites). Noone is disputing that. But they are not Deathwing specifically, so it would strike me as rather unfluffy to have a pure Deathwing force lead by a (non-Deathwing) Librarian.
There is, admittedly, 1 Chaplain, so there might be scope for a second special character to lead the Deathwing.
And also only 1 Apothecary and 200 Terminators? Notice also that on that page ALL Librarians belong to the Inner Circle and not separate companies.
Which is why they are HQ choices. Like Azrael. But Inner Circle is not Deathwing. Note how the Inner Circle, unlike Deathwing, doesn't fight exclusively in Terminator Armour. Also, being Inner Circle, they command ALL Dark Angels. So it would make sense for armies commanded by them, to include various elements of the Dark Angels (including Deathwing as an Elite-Choice).
There is no Librarian in the Ultramarines 1st company either. That didn't stop one leading a 100% Terminator force against a Genestealer cult.
Which is a "mistake" of the current Space Marines/Ultramarines Codex, not the Dark Angels one.
Though I probably wouldn't call it a mistake, as it is an event so rare, that players who want to play that specific scenario can simply house-rule to have UM-Terminators as troops for this scenario.
It is an event so rare, that it can probably be omitted in the official rules in favor of the more "iconic" combinations (which, in the case of Dark Angels, would be a Deathwing force led by their captain, not the 1-in-a-trillion odd-one-out when Belial wasn't with a sizable pure Deathwing force).
There is, admittedly, 1 Chaplain, so there might be scope for a second special character to lead the Deathwing.
And also only 1 Apothecary and 200 Terminators? Notice also that on that page ALL Librarians belong to the Inner Circle and not separate companies.
Which is why they are HQ choices. Like Azrael. But Inner Circle is not Deathwing. Note how the Inner Circle, unlike Deathwing, doesn't fight exclusively in Terminator Armour. Also, being Inner Circle, they command ALL Dark Angels. So it would make sense for armies commanded by them, to include various elements of the Dark Angels (including Deathwing as an Elite-Choice).
But the Company Master isnt compulsory for taking Tactical Squads as Troops. As discussed previously surely Belial wouldnt be with all of the Deathwing? Why would a small force of Deathwing Terminators led by a Librarian/Chaplain/Other not be Troops? Surely having more options is a good thing, even if this turns out not to be the case.
There is no Librarian in the Ultramarines 1st company either. That didn't stop one leading a 100% Terminator force against a Genestealer cult.
In the current Vanilla Marine codex, you can't take Terminators as troops at all.
If you mean fluff wise, well, the game isn't balanced around fluff.
Belial is the tax to take what are probably going to be the best Terminators in the game (sans Paladins). With all their mix and matching, special rules, and, hey, who knows, Belial might not suck.
EDIT:
Is Sammael required to make Ravenwing Troops? If so, then, complain about that too.
I know you want to take the Librarian and use Divination to make your Deathwing super awesome, but fear not, you still can! You just have to take Belial first. >.>
Gar'Ang wrote: Uh the Deathwing and Ravenwing are PARTS of the inner circle
True. My point. They are a larger, more diverse entity and a leader from this larger circle should be represented by a larger, more diverse army. If you want to narrow down on the PART of the Inner Circle that is the Deathwing, it makes sense to start with Belial.
Which is a "mistake" of the current Space Marines/Ultramarines Codex, not the Dark Angels one.
Though I probably wouldn't call it a mistake, as it is an event so rare, that players who want to play that specific scenario can simply house-rule to have UM-Terminators as troops for this scenario.
It is an event so rare, that it can probably be omitted in the official rules in favor of the more "iconic" combinations (which, in the case of Dark Angels, would be a Deathwing force led by their captain, not the 1-in-a-trillion odd-one-out when Belial wasn't with a sizable pure Deathwing force).
Actually, I wouldn't call that a "mistake" as that action involved an Ultramarine task-force that purged a Genestealer cult on Ichar IV. This is a lore issue really.
Having it being a "rare" event is still a stretch, considering the Ultras deployed their entire 1st company in terminator armor in the 1st Tyrannic War (Polar Fortress-Macragge). A somewhat second occurrence, albeit Invictus was the captain and I don't recall a Librarian or Chaplain in that force fighting there.
This is just an apples-to-oranges comparison here; codex chapters user their 1st company assets in a support role, breaking them up and assigning them to particular task-forces.
A good chunk of whatever particular company is allotted to the task-force (sometimes all of it depending on the scale of the mission) followed by support options such as 1st company support, etc.
So, while I would agree that it is most "uncommon" for codex chapters to deploy their 1st company assets in that matter, even being led by a Librarian or Chaplain, it still can occur, just not often.
The Dark Angels just use theirs differently as this is a matter of fighting doctrine and that's it. In a codex task-force, it can be led by a Librarian or Chaplain as needed by discretion of the Chapter Master. So, Death Wing probably have to have their master to lead them since it's their doctrine.
However, I do recall in the 2nd Siege of Vraks book, the Dark Angels had assembled a few companies including the Death Wing to do a "thunder-run" on a space-port/business district area held by rebel troops and they ran into some Alpha Legion in where Azreal was saved by none other than a Death Wing Chaplain, who ironically appeared to be the senior officer of the Death Wing on the ground that day....needless to say Belial was nowhere to be found. So maybe it can happen with Death Wing where others besides Belial can lead them......of course this is just fluff perspective here. Still Azreal was the supreme commander of the operation, but as far as the Death Wing were concerned, it does appear that they don't always have to be lead by Belial.
Again......just from what I've read from the FW books and maybe this was a special exception, I don't know. Guess you can spin it either way.
Was the whole 1st Company in Terminator armour at the Polar Fortress?
Actually that's what I thought also... I remember also don't remember that the old Index astartes rules for invictus alowed him to take termies as troops (even if in 3rd ed, being troop wasn't that important)
So deathwing will still be allowed to be used as troops with belial? Also I wonder if you can still kit out Belial with a TH/SS or just the sword of silence. Recently started a preheresy imperial fist army, and was thinking of adding to it, but I might have to shelve that and pick up some of these new DA.
I like how GW doesn't even put capital letters in their video titles like they're a fething 15 year old.
That being said the "teaser" thing wasn't so bad as far as dumb GW teasers go. I like how they emphasized the darker nature of the DA by torturing prisoners to confess as opposed to more inserted cheap-sounding bolter and thunderbolt noises.
People just don’t want to have the same Belial clone leading every game, because they didn’t use to have to take him. It will help if he still has different weapon options. However Belial doesn’t lead every engagement of the 1st company. They don’t deploy the entire company for every action either. Also if the Deathwing has two missions at the same time Belial can’t be in two places at the same time, so somebody else needs to command the other mission. That is why they need a captain in TA option. That being said I will not hold my breath GW has screwed us before with the 4th ed codex.
Gar'Ang wrote: Uh the Deathwing and Ravenwing are PARTS of the inner circle
True. My point. They are a larger, more diverse entity and a leader from this larger circle should be represented by a larger, more diverse army. If you want to narrow down on the PART of the Inner Circle that is the Deathwing, it makes sense to start with Belial.
Regardless of your personal vendetta against the idea of things other than Belial unlocking troop terminators, the fact remains that it's a very relevant tool for successor chapters.
You can argue till you are blue in the face about the composition of the Dark Angels companies, it still doesn't make sense for Belial to be leading a Disciples of Caliban force.
Drunkspleen wrote: You can argue till you are blue in the face about the composition of the Dark Angels companies, it still doesn't make sense for Belial to be leading a Disciples of Caliban force.
Amen brother,
So do you guys thing the 1/5/13 date is for the preorders or the release?
SoloFalcon1138 wrote: but it does make sense for Belial's counterpart to lead the Disciples of Caliban.
But he is not going to have all the same weapons a wargear as Belial, when your the guy in charge you get to pick what sfuff you carry. Very few company masters all carry the same stuff.
Drunkspleen wrote: You can argue till you are blue in the face about the composition of the Dark Angels companies, it still doesn't make sense for Belial to be leading a Disciples of Caliban force.
Amen brother, so do you guys thing the 1/5/13 date is for the preorders or the release?
Um... pre-orders, since the usual tactic has been to release a trailer at least 1 week before pre-orders which will be at least 1 week before release. If official announcement was today, it's most likely going to be a Jan 12th release.
Davylove21 wrote: If we're going to talk about fluff reasons for terminator armies on the tabletop, isn't it a case of 'if the fuhrer wants it, 2+2 shall equal 5'?
GW's doublethink regarding fluff is endless when there's profit to be had.
First, this makes no sense. Deathwing troops have been around for 3 versions. Why is it just now that GW is doublethinking it?
Second, were you one of the people who voted in another thread that the rulebooks should be less than $20? Where is it written that GW is a charity and must sell products at or below cost?
Now, back on topic...
I am so excited to see my Dark Angels get a boost. Can't wait!
Davylove21 wrote: If we're going to talk about fluff reasons for terminator armies on the tabletop, isn't it a case of 'if the fuhrer wants it, 2+2 shall equal 5'?
GW's doublethink regarding fluff is endless when there's profit to be had.
First, this makes no sense. Deathwing troops have been around for 3 versions. Why is it just now that GW is doublethinking it?
Second, were you one of the people who voted in another thread that the rulebooks should be less than $20? Where is it written that GW is a charity and must sell products at or below cost?
Now, back on topic...
I am so excited to see my Dark Angels get a boost. Can't wait!
I don't really know what you said, so I'll re-phrase.
It's GW's fluff, you're going to play Terminators the way they tell you to next month, it's a moot discussion regarding fluff.
I re-read your text and it's still baffling. Especially that random part about GW being a charity. That was mental.
Can't wait for this, the fighters looks good and I can now expand on my deathwin with more knights and probably redo my command squad because they look not that great lol compared to these guys
Second, were you one of the people who voted in another thread that the rulebooks should be less than $20? Where is it written that GW is a charity and must sell products at or below cost?
In all fairness, better games give their rules away for free.
Holy~Heretic wrote: From the army list entry in the most recent leak, it looks like Sammael has been chosen as a HQ but then all ravenwing are still in the FA slot
Can't you take Ravenwing-Attacksquads both in Troops and Fast Attackif you have Sammael in the current dex? Probably it's still the same and the geniuses of gw play testing just didn't took any Ravenwing as troops.
Second, were you one of the people who voted in another thread that the rulebooks should be less than $20? Where is it written that GW is a charity and must sell products at or below cost?
In all fairness, better games give their rules away for free.
Sarcasm aside I would love it if you could provide examples I could check out of better written games with free rules.
Second, were you one of the people who voted in another thread that the rulebooks should be less than $20? Where is it written that GW is a charity and must sell products at or below cost?
In all fairness, better games give their rules away for free.
And yet here we all are......
Looking forward to seeing exactly how the unlocks will work for dark angels. Will determine how they work as allies or not.
Second, were you one of the people who voted in another thread that the rulebooks should be less than $20? Where is it written that GW is a charity and must sell products at or below cost?
In all fairness, better games give their rules away for free.
Makes great business sense that, giving away things for free.
Holy~Heretic wrote: From the army list entry in the most recent leak, it looks like Sammael has been chosen as a HQ but then all ravenwing are still in the FA slot
Second, were you one of the people who voted in another thread that the rulebooks should be less than $20? Where is it written that GW is a charity and must sell products at or below cost?
In all fairness, better games give their rules away for free.
Sarcasm aside I would love it if you could provide examples I could check out of better written games with free rules.
Infintiy makes its rules available as free downloads from their website.
Fafnir wrote: In all fairness, better games give their rules away for free.
And yet here we all are......
Not sure who 'we all' encompasses, but some of us are no longer buying new codexes, at least while an $85 hardback is the only available option.
Lorizael wrote:Makes great business sense that, giving away things for free.
It can do. It's why companies have been giving away free samples for... well, about as long as there have been companies. Get people hooked, and they'll come back and buy more.
In the miniatures world, if your business model is built around selling miniatures rather than rules, then giving the rules away for free in order to encourage more people to play your game (and so buy your miniatures) is a viable option.
GW doesn't do it because (at least historically) there has been no need. We'll just have to wait and see if the switch to full-colour hardcovers (with the associated price tag) has any effect on their book sales.
Holy~Heretic wrote: From the army list entry in the most recent leak, it looks like Sammael has been chosen as a HQ but then all ravenwing are still in the FA slot
Wait, that is actually unnerving...
It looks like that is just the WD battle report army and IIRC they didn’t take Sammael as an HQ so the bikes would still be troops for that list. GW goons are notorious for taking the lamest lists in battle reports. The WD battle reports are staged and not about winning they are about showing off the product and it has been that way for many years.
Second, were you one of the people who voted in another thread that the rulebooks should be less than $20? Where is it written that GW is a charity and must sell products at or below cost?
In all fairness, better games give their rules away for free.
Sarcasm aside I would love it if you could provide examples I could check out of better written games with free rules.
Infinity makes its rules available as free downloads from their website.
Yes, they do.
However they have a fairly good reason for it since Corvus Belli has had quite a few issues with printers and reaching the publish dates for their books. And not only that, but it will be at least another two or three months before "Campaign: Paradiso" and its units are available as free downloads, hopefully around the same time the Devil Team has their Army Builder and Campaign Tracker ready.
Mr. S Baldrick wrote: GW goons are notorious for taking the lamest lists in battle reports.
Not always deliberately... They're often limited by whatever the 'Eavy Metal guys have painted.
The WD battle reports are staged and not about winning they are about showing off the product and it has been that way for many years.
From what's been said in the past, it's not so much 'staged' as they play the game out a few times and publish the one that they think will make the best reading.
Second, were you one of the people who voted in another thread that the rulebooks should be less than $20? Where is it written that GW is a charity and must sell products at or below cost?
In all fairness, better games give their rules away for free.
Sarcasm aside I would love it if you could provide examples I could check out of better written games with free rules.
GW currently give away the rules for some of their best games for free.
I downloaded them all onto my laptop because I'm fairly certain that in the not too distant future they'll decide to start charging for them as an ipad download or something.
Second, were you one of the people who voted in another thread that the rulebooks should be less than $20? Where is it written that GW is a charity and must sell products at or below cost?
In all fairness, better games give their rules away for free.
Sarcasm aside I would love it if you could provide examples I could check out of better written games with free rules.
Infinity makes its rules available as free downloads from their website.
Yes, they do.
However they have a fairly good reason for it since Corvus Belli has had quite a few issues with printers and reaching the publish dates for their books. And not only that, but it will be at least another two or three months before "Campaign: Paradiso" and its units are available as free downloads, hopefully around the same time the Devil Team has their Army Builder and Campaign Tracker ready.
So they provide the rules free because they can't make their publishing dates but the free rules are only available after the hard copies have been published? Nice try. And the free rules wiki is there because?
They want people to play then game the rules are free and it enables them to keep them updated for the gaming community. If people want the fluff they have to buy the books and people still most certainly do.
Second, were you one of the people who voted in another thread that the rulebooks should be less than $20? Where is it written that GW is a charity and must sell products at or below cost?
In all fairness, better games give their rules away for free.
Sarcasm aside I would love it if you could provide examples I could check out of better written games with free rules.
Infinity makes its rules available as free downloads from their website.
Yes, they do.
However they have a fairly good reason for it since Corvus Belli has had quite a few issues with printers and reaching the publish dates for their books. And not only that, but it will be at least another two or three months before "Campaign: Paradiso" and its units are available as free downloads, hopefully around the same time the Devil Team has their Army Builder and Campaign Tracker ready.
So they provide the rules free because they can't make their publishing dates but the free rules are only available after the hard copies have been published? Nice try. And the free rules wiki is there because?
They don't want people to just "dive in" and spend money on rulebooks/models without knowing if they will like the game?
Seriously. That is the reasoning they have given before.
However you're confusing two separate issues. Ask around about the stock availability of the rulebooks for Infinity. A large number of places will tell you that stocking them continually is "problematic".
The "free rules wiki" that they have is primarily for those instances where someone thinks "the book just is not right". We all know those kinds of players, where they swear up and down that their version of the book which they left at home says something different.
They want people to play then game the rules are free and it enables them to keep them updated for the gaming community. If people want the fluff they have to buy the books and people still most certainly do.
People buy the books because they want the fluff and ready access to the army lists. You are going to be waiting a few months for the units from Campaign: Paradiso to be available for free, even via the Devil Team's Army Builder.
Mr. S Baldrick wrote: GW goons are notorious for taking the lamest lists in battle reports.
Not always deliberately... They're often limited by whatever the 'Eavy Metal guys have painted.
The WD battle reports are staged and not about winning they are about showing off the product and it has been that way for many years.
From what's been said in the past, it's not so much 'staged' as they play the game out a few times and publish the one that they think will make the best reading.
Not exactly,
The tackling dummy for the new army is usually whatever Heavy Metal has laying around. For the new army they usually paint the stuff that will best show off the new product, because DW is about sales first hobby second gaming last.
They usually play anywhere from 2-4 games for the white dwarf and pick the one that makes the new army look good. Also if something really cool happened in the earlier games the recreate it for the latter. So yes I would call picking the game and putting in parts from previous games staging. I am not saying I have a problem with it because I know that the DW is about sales and the battle reports show me what the army can do, but let us call it what it is.
I hate Belial. Just look at him. It's just the pose and complete lack of expression. You'd have thought he'd be slightly more impassioned. It just feels like a step back from the great models in DV...
Second, were you one of the people who voted in another thread that the rulebooks should be less than $20? Where is it written that GW is a charity and must sell products at or below cost?
In all fairness, better games give their rules away for free.
Sarcasm aside I would love it if you could provide examples I could check out of better written games with free rules.
Infinity is a fantastic game, with much better writing and depth than 40k (although it's a fairly convoluted ruleset that has a fair bit of learning curve, thankfully, nothing really feels forced or out of place), and you can get the rules online for free.
Second, were you one of the people who voted in another thread that the rulebooks should be less than $20? Where is it written that GW is a charity and must sell products at or below cost?
In all fairness, better games give their rules away for free.
And yet here we all are......
I haven't played a game of 40k in over 5 months now, and haven't bought a GW model in over a year. It doesn't change the fact that Dakka has a good community, caters to more than just one wargame, and provides news on a variety of miniature companies, not just GW. Furthermore, just because I don't play 40k anymore doesn't mean I can't maintain a passing interest in it, seeing as I used to enjoy the game, and enjoy the world of 40k.
Second, were you one of the people who voted in another thread that the rulebooks should be less than $20? Where is it written that GW is a charity and must sell products at or below cost?
In all fairness, better games give their rules away for free.
Makes great business sense that, giving away things for free.
Ask Corvus Belli. Their platform of giving out rules for free in order to support their models has worked wonderfully for them. Seeing as GW considers the whole 'gaming' bit to be a side operation to their models, you'd think that would be a solid business strategy for them to adopt, as opposed to $100 rulebooks.
Can anyone tell from the pics so fare if DA still have combat squads. I might be getting old but I can't read a thing in those tiny pics. It would be odd if they didn't since DA were the first book to have them.
Can anyone tell from the pics so fare if DA still have combat squads. I might be getting old but I can't read a thing in those tiny pics. It would be odd if they didn't since DA were the first book to have them.
At least one. Someone a few pages back identified Combat Squads under the Veterans listing on that scanned Elites page.
Snrub wrote: New teaser trailer is up incase anyone missed it.... This is the most unsutblest thing i've ever seen.
Repleat with "cyptic" messages and unearthly screaming....
And vaguely religious chanting!
Anyway... considering that GW is an international company and their target audience is tweens and teens, maybe they should stop using numerical dates for their release dates? Maybe spell it out?
The US version (Canadian too) just follows the way it is spoken: January 5, 2013.
I think we must have seen every image from the WD now, bring on the scanned pages already! I have an Escalation League starting in two weeks and I need to start planning.
TedNugent wrote: American logic: IBM, personal computers, the internet, putting a man on the moon, weaponized nuclear fission,
....
....
What, is that day -after- the month? What a bunch of Neanderthals.
The internet is not entirely the USA's product, nor are personal computers, and I'd say you should look up "Operation: Paper Clip and NASA" with the man on the moon thing.
insaniak wrote: The date in that preview is the 05/01/13... which is the 5th of January. Where on earth are you getting December from?
Yes but the release date is January 12th for us that is 1/12/13, so for you guys that would be 1st of December It would be a first for GW to preview something a year before it came out.
I grew up next to the space center, I can see the VAB when I cross the bridges on Merritt Island. We developed a pen that won't freeze in the coldness of space. Meanwhile, the Russians just used a pencil. Can we just get back on topic? Dark Angels rumors.
BlapBlapBlap wrote: I hate Belial. Just look at him. It's just the pose and complete lack of expression. You'd have thought he'd be slightly more impassioned. It just feels like a step back from the great models in DV...
*shrug* If the model was pointing and screaming, people would complain about that too. Personally I think the "command" approach they took is solid and works. And I think the face is expressive enough.
urhmmm... I instead don't like these exceedingly heroic command stands... they're too static... I think that I will make my own Belial with the DW bitz.
yes, any plastic conversion, or even the Termie Sgt. from the DV box (unconverted), would look cooler, to me...
plus, i'm not touching Finecast...
the Termie box, and the Command bikes, look like great minis to paint, and awesome conversion fodder for other Chapters as well...
plastic is easily my favorite mini medium these days...
i think i'm a bitz junkie, and have a problem...hahahahaha
i must say, i passed on last month's digital White Dwarf, though i liked the first two, but i am really looking forward to this one...
all the interactive pics are amazing on the iPad...
i know that's not a popular thing to say, but i do like the blow-up and zoom options, the slideshows, and the 360's...
the only thing i could do without is the embedded video at the end of the Battle Report...
man, that is a giant file...
) and it's generally a fun way to enjoy the hobby.
