I am loving every part of this transition. I would have ordered a lot more if I had known he was bringing out the good stuff.
Also, I'm surprised how pridefully positive this thread has been about the changes. I was sure there would be some kind of tear-shedding involving the word "undercuts".
Well they were always suppose to be plastic so there shouldn't be any kick back on that. I'm super pumped he decided to go with the hard plastic like GW's.
Oh, and this is how you communicate with your customers.
Thank you everyone! We are getting slammed with requests to re-open the pledge manager on the email side! Anna said that if you want it unlocked, please email her at anna@kingdomdeath.com and she will take care of you.
Buzzsaw wrote: Doom! Opening the pledge manager? I... fear for the well-being of my wallet.
Oh, crap.
This is the only game my wife is actually actively excited about that I've bought into, and usually it's her comments of moderation that keeps my gaming budget in check... this might get a little out of control.
To be fair my brother and I knew that this delay was coming, but that Poots would go into such detail as to why and how, awesome man, never needed to apologize in the first place, because we know the amount of passion you have for this project. Raging Heroes, take a page from this man already, as THIS is how you run a project and keep people happy!
I wonder if they'll let me bump up to a Survivor from a base game pledge. I'm sure I wouldn't actually get to use all that extra stuff. Just the joy of putting it together!
There certainly wasn't an option for it the first time around.
Nevermind that I spent well over enough for a herald of death without it...
Seeing those plastic pinups makes me want to pledge for a few of those as well now.
Delay - meh, the majority of KS (is the official stat ~80%?) suffer delays so it is both inevitable and not an issue, in fact with all the improvements & tinkering it's just doubled-down on how stoked I am for this
Fortunately for my wallet I pledged for every game component & expansion first time round (if there was a brow-wiping smiley, it would be here). EDIT: oh wait... pin-ups in plastic... oh gawd this might hurt after all
The only downside is that my daughter will now arrive first, so getting some quality time with this once it does arrive will be challenging
I'm not surprised at the delay. November seemed rather ambitious for the amount of stuff going into this project. Frankly, I'm glad he's delaying. I'll be sad I won't get my pile of KD figures this winter, but if the trade-off is for GW-esque styrene plastic with detailing on par with the resins, I'll gladly take the delay.
Was there talk of reopening the pledge manager? If they do reopen it, I might just be tempted to throw down for the rest of the messengers and clean out the last of the expansions Highlord and I are missing.
While not all good news, I think the good definitely outweighs the (entirely expected) bad. As others have said, this gives me a bit of breathing room between KS shipments, so it works out better for me in the long run anyway.
Was there talk of reopening the pledge manager? If they do reopen it, I might just be tempted to throw down for the rest of the messengers and clean out the last of the expansions Highlord and I are missing.
They are not doing a general re-opening of the pledge manager,
but if you want yours re-opened Anna (Adams partner) said that if you want it unlocked, please email her at anna@kingdomdeath.com and she will take care of you.
(and I did indeed email her, got mine unlocked and added the remaining pin-ups I could not afford last time round)
Based on the photos I might re-open my pledge manager to get more of the armor sets and the rest of the pin-ups. They aren't cheap models but man, they are so pretty.
cincydooley wrote: I'm amazed they're going for the injection moulded plastic. Amazed.
Buzzsaw wrote: Opening the pledge manager? I... fear for the well-being of my wallet.
I already gave them $650.00. I think I've covered my bases.
Hulksmash wrote: But guys, you can't get anywhere near the same level of detail on plastic as you can on resin......
I'm cool with this. I barely went in for the starter and was going to settle for a ton of pin-ups. Now I'm stoked I did and it's looking like $500 well spent for painting stuff.
Actually, the level of difference is "just enough" that people who went in for the resins should still feel very happy about their purchase. All my non-KS purchases from Poots are still unpainted simply because I am not worthy enough as a painter to dare touch them with brush and paint. :(
I'm really impressed by those plastic test shots. Hopefully, they can hit their Q1 2014 goal... I think that would still be surprising and really impressive if they did, given the scale of the project and the quality shown here.
Oh wow. Oh. Wow. I'm legitimately lightheaded (Is that a bad sign?). Using hard plastic is fantastic. The quality is fantastic. Adding items to the box is fantastic. I could not be more excited.
As for delays: whatever. I was expecting some anyway. I'll take a delay if it means ensuring quality. Adam has run an exemplary campaign that other companies should be studying like the Zapruder film as a guide on how to work the Kickstarter system to both their and the customers' benefit.
According to the project management pyramid you can pick two of three items; quality, timeliness, and injection molded plastic. I love it that Poots picked quality and plastic. Anyone who has Mantic or Sedition Wars stuff should be equally elated about this, too.
I've got a bunch of other KS's hitting in November, so I'm not too bothered--better a good product later than a flawed one now. Would have been nice to have the Lonely Tree for use as scenery in an upcoming Malifaux campaign, but ah well.
Didn't see it mentioned, but did Poots say what company he is using for the plastics? Just wondering if the KD announcement of plastics and DreamForges announcement of delays due to WGF taking on new projects is more than just coincidence.
*edit* Comparing the sprues from DFG and the sample sprues from KD, I am starting think it isn't coincidence at all. That stacking peg system shown is common between both sets.
Not coincidence but not entirely unrelated, either. Poots is just one of many people pushing money into WGF's face. WGF is trying to allocate as quickly as possible, giving those who can pay up front priority over those who pay on credit. In theory every KS project is a "cash client" but who can be sure what the reality is?
Breotan wrote: Not coincidence but not entirely unrelated, either. Poots is just one of many people pushing money into WGF's face. WGF is trying to allocate as quickly as possible, giving those who can pay up front priority over those who pay on credit. In theory every KS project is a "cash client" but who can be sure what the reality is?
So it is confirmed that WGF is doing the plastics? Given what people have been saying about the DFG stuff, that's good news. Bad news for DFG backers, good news for us right now.
Breotan wrote: Not coincidence but not entirely unrelated, either. Poots is just one of many people pushing money into WGF's face. WGF is trying to allocate as quickly as possible, giving those who can pay up front priority over those who pay on credit. In theory every KS project is a "cash client" but who can be sure what the reality is?
I think you are pretty on with cash client and credit. During the conversation of the kickstarter, it seemed like DFG was/is relying on credit from WGF to get things done.
edited some because I forgot what thread I was in.
Breotan wrote: Not coincidence but not entirely unrelated, either. Poots is just one of many people pushing money into WGF's face. WGF is trying to allocate as quickly as possible, giving those who can pay up front priority over those who pay on credit. In theory every KS project is a "cash client" but who can be sure what the reality is?
So it is confirmed that WGF is doing the plastics? Given what people have been saying about the DFG stuff, that's good news. Bad news for DFG backers, good news for us right now.
I don't think it is confirmed, but I think it is likely as both stories (from Poots and DFG) seem to line up, along with the styles of the sprue.
but if you want to open yours email Adams partner anna@kingdomdeath.com and she'll open yours up for your
if you do unlock it wipes all your previous choices so you'll need to re-do the whole thing, but you do get the chance to add more stuff though in a single paypal payment
but if you want to open yours email Adams partner anna@kingdomdeath.com and she'll open yours up for your
if you do unlock it wipes all your previous choices so you'll need to re-do the whole thing, but you do get the chance to add more stuff though in a single paypal payment
(I've done it!)
I unlocked mine to add a set of base inserts not realising it resets everything I had $15 unallocated that I couldn't figure out until I found Allison if you unlock make sure you have a list of what you previously ordered on the plus side you can completely change and reallocate your money if you so want. (I also hit the Paypal and tablet problem make sure to do it on a PC or laptop)
Breotan wrote: Not coincidence but not entirely unrelated, either. Poots is just one of many people pushing money into WGF's face. WGF is trying to allocate as quickly as possible, giving those who can pay up front priority over those who pay on credit. In theory every KS project is a "cash client" but who can be sure what the reality is?
So it is confirmed that WGF is doing the plastics? Given what people have been saying about the DFG stuff, that's good news. Bad news for DFG backers, good news for us right now.
Wargames Factory has been doing everyone's plastics recently, their slide core molds are allowing for better molds, less undercuts, and better quality for a cheaper price than other plastic injection molding.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: True, but there is growing resentment in other threads about the delays everyone is suffering because of this.
Unfortunately, Money Talks. Or Fortunately if you don't care about the Dreamforge stuff. Either way, if WGF is a smart business (and it looks like they are) they'd prioritize and go with the person that can pay them the most, right now. And that looks like what they're doing.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: True, but there is growing resentment in other threads about the delays everyone is suffering because of this.
Unfortunately, Money Talks. Or Fortunately if you don't care about the Dreamforge stuff. Either way, if WGF is a smart business (and it looks like they are) they'd prioritize and go with the person that can pay them the most, right now. And that looks like what they're doing.
Cross thread post time (kind of).
In the DFG post, Mark stated that WGF paid for some molds up front with their own money. While it may be an older project, if you have a customer coming in to pay upfront in cash, it makes sense to have delayed DFG (if it did indeed happen, I don't think they got jumped back, I just think they were on a different burner so to say). WGF expanded rapidly and probably needed the cash that KD:M provided to pay their own bills.
Once everyone gets models in hand, everyone is going to be a lot happier.
@Larabic, You can add. And I know this is gonna sound crazy but... we can only keep it open and take requests for a short window. We have to, HAVE to get back to the normal daily schedule. if you do, keep in mind that your entire pledge has to be re-done - so remember what you had in there!
I'd say the expansions will all be available at some point next year - it's a lot of money tied up in hard plastic molds not to and I'd say his orders are based on fulfilling the KS and having retail stock the more you order in one go the cheaper it is to get made any way. I'd expect Poots will hold to his no discounters line and will only supply retailers who will hold the MSRP prices so realistically the Kingdom Death site, CMoN and probably 1 or 2 distributors in the other markets like the UK so yes getting them in stock at retail could be difficult. Shipping charges on the main box are going to be huge.
The main box set itself has grown to be quite large indeed - I am really looking forward to this one, as it will probably represent the majority of my hobby painting time in 2014!
So found my email. Didn't realize I spent $390 on this. Sadly, once I finish checking out what I did order I might be going in for more.....Damn high quality casts...
The finished Hell Dorado Twilight Knight has been posted.
The proportions look off to me the head is to big and arms to long it could just be the photo but it's disappointing given Thomas David sculpted her and is a KD sculptor as well.
Yeah... that's fairly disappointing. I understand that, being Hell Dorado and not KD, there are some stylistic differences to keep in mind, but that just does not look like a Twilight Knight at all to me.
I also understand that the face is supposed to look more 'eastern,' but I don't think it's pulled off well.
I'm going to be honest, I had someone grab one of the Twilight Knights for me, and I'm quite happy with her. It's a very different take on the character from the ones that I already have (and have coming to me, hehe), that makes me rather more interested in the Hell Dorado line. This interpretation is very different from the KD one, much less winsome and fragile looking, which (as an outside observer) would seem in keeping with the aesthetic in HD.
Her hands appear like they'd be about half way down her thigh if she stood to attention IMO, which is about the right length no?
I think it's just the size of the sword that makes it look strange, I'd have preferred something a little more Elven like the original artwork. Otherwise I'm fine with this.
Heya Guys, Just wanted to let you know that I have been in contact with Kai ( of cipher studios ) and if the artist is ok with it, we are going to make some adjustments to the Cross over Helldorado Twilight Knight to make it more appealing to both fans. I personally felt that for HD it was fine, but I can see why some KD fans have some issues with her.
A creator, listening to customer feedback and criticism, and making adjustments if he feels they are necessary?
Now granted, this may have only been possible as the Helldorado version of the Twilight Knight was at no more than 80% complete, maybe...
It's also interesting as it shows how much art direction Adam puts into what his sculptors produce
The HD Twilight Knight has a KD concept artist (who produced art that looked one way), and in Thomas David an experienced KD artist who produced a figure that many didn't really like (or like as much as KD's output)
to the difference is art direction either coming from HD (either passively or direct from Kai) pushing the figure away from the KD look,
or possibly showing what Thomas David style might be like without Adam's art direction pushing things towards what he thinks KD should look like
Heya Guys, Just wanted to let you know that I have been in contact with Kai ( of cipher studios ) and if the artist is ok with it, we are going to make some adjustments to the Cross over Helldorado Twilight Knight to make it more appealing to both fans. I personally felt that for HD it was fine, but I can see why some KD fans have some issues with her.
A creator, listening to customer feedback and criticism, and making adjustments if he feels they are necessary?
Now granted, this may have only been possible as the Helldorado version of the Twilight Knight was at no more than 80% complete, maybe...
Well, in this era of shamefully negative threads it was nice of them to go and give a news update to those "instant gratification" folks raised on Twitter since, as we all know, updates are HORRIBLY expensive and disruptive to the creative process. I'm shocked that Adam would acknowledge that there were artists involved in the creation of miniatures, as surely they are using a secretive process that must be viewed as a trade secret to produce these things.
In other news, I wasn't in for a HD version, but it's good to see that they are indeed maintaining a coherent vision for KD stuff even when it's a cross-over.
Heya Guys, Just wanted to let you know that I have been in contact with Kai ( of cipher studios ) and if the artist is ok with it, we are going to make some adjustments to the Cross over Helldorado Twilight Knight to make it more appealing to both fans. I personally felt that for HD it was fine, but I can see why some KD fans have some issues with her.
A creator, listening to customer feedback and criticism, and making adjustments if he feels they are necessary?
Now granted, this may have only been possible as the Helldorado version of the Twilight Knight was at no more than 80% complete, maybe...
Well, in this era of shamefully negative threads it was nice of them to go and give a news update to those "instant gratification" folks raised on Twitter since, as we all know, updates are HORRIBLY expensive and disruptive to the creative process. I'm shocked that Adam would acknowledge that there were artists involved in the creation of miniatures, as surely they are using a secretive process that must be viewed as a trade secret to produce these things.
In other news, I wasn't in for a HD version, but it's good to see that they are indeed maintaining a coherent vision for KD stuff even when it's a cross-over.
I LOL'd!
I also found this exchange funny:
Daniel Magnan about 15 hours ago
@KD Cool. That should make some people happy. I was ok with it as it was, but I certainly wouldn't mind some more KD style added to it.
It is surprising you had the time to deal with this as it sounds like you are in crunch mode right now.
this seems to have been missed from the KS comments:
The Pinup Twilight Knight, is getting a little update. Her sword has been swapped out for the actual Twilight Sword, some of the softer details have been carved into more and we replaced her cape with a hand sculpted cape ( thank you thomas)!
The resin production que is pretty backed up, so I dunno when this will finally hit the store.
@Agusky, I will not be releasing the rulebook in PDF format, my apologies. It would undermine too many core design choices that have carried the project and brand this far. Currently, things are far too hectic for me to consider any other language version outside of english. Nailing down game rules that are readable, understandable and also mechanical is very hard. Look at MTG for example, they have been writing rules and cards for the same game for over 20 years and they are still striving for perfection.
I promise you, once I get my heads out of the woods here I will look into translations so that in the event the game is popular enough and it warrants more production runs I can pull the trigger on it. But as you know a poor translation can do a lot more damage then good and like everything else I am just not comfortable releasing anything that I don't feel is as close to perfect as I can manage.
You mean besides the kickstarter? ;_; Just to list stuff off the top of my head, Storm Knight, Warriors of the Sun, Lion Knight #1, Nightmare Ram ( might rename that ), Holy Landers, White Knights, New Forsaker Pinup, New White Speaker Pinup, Flower Witch, Disciples of the Flower Witch, Male Great Game Hunter Class Paths ( Rouge, Noble, Bravdo ), Female Great Game Hunter Class Paths ( Rouge, Noble, Bravado ) Before the Wall ( a precursor to Beyond the Wall ), Holy Griffin, Sparrow Goblin, Goblin Guard, Visionary Class um… Male Saviors ( all ages ), Non Pinup Version of Architect Class, Pinup Warrior of the Sun and uh…. My version of Satan.
OMG!!! I have almost everything from KD so far... this is great. The plastics are looking almost as good as the resin as well so this is the new best thing in gaming for me.
You mean besides the kickstarter? ;_; Just to list stuff off the top of my head, Storm Knight, Warriors of the Sun, Lion Knight #1, Nightmare Ram ( might rename that ), Holy Landers, White Knights, New Forsaker Pinup, New White Speaker Pinup, Flower Witch, Disciples of the Flower Witch, Male Great Game Hunter Class Paths ( Rouge, Noble, Bravdo ), Female Great Game Hunter Class Paths ( Rouge, Noble, Bravado ) Before the Wall ( a precursor to Beyond the Wall ), Holy Griffin, Sparrow Goblin, Goblin Guard, Visionary Class um… Male Saviors ( all ages ), Non Pinup Version of Architect Class, Pinup Warrior of the Sun and uh…. My version of Satan.
Creator Kingdom Death about 7 hours ago
Here ya go. We most likely won't see any sort of release on him for a while. But it makes me feel good that the sculptors are all now working on NEW things! While myself and the factory are working on KD:M and its zillions of components.
http://cl.ly/image/2m0c1H3Q3a1G
Seems pretty tame compared to some of is other stuff. Also, isn't it a little odd to have a monster holding a lantern? Only other monster I can think of having one would be the Watcher.
Had the pleasure of meeting Danny Cruz at the New York Comic Con this weekend. Didn't realize he was a concept artist for KD. Picture was actually in his sketchbook which I picked up and he pointed out he had "accidentally" posted the art early on his deviant art page:
Spoiler:
Fortunately he said Poots didn't have a problem with that. Unfortunately he isn't doing anything else for KD and is devoted 100% right now to Mierce Miniatures and doing art for them. Wish I had the money at the time because he was doing commissions at the show. Turned out an awesome Death Dealer for some very lucky fellow.
Little fun fact I found out how he got into concept art work for miniatures. Replied to Poots' help wanted add on Craigslist. O.o
Lucarikx wrote: Does anyone know when all the Kickstarter models are coming out for general release? I need some good heads for my new army, and I think I found em
Lucarikx
The easiest answer is not for a while, if at all. It's my understanding that you won't be able to buy the normal armor sets outside of the main box and the expansion boxes they come with.
Hello everyone! It's been over a month since our last update where we finally unveiled the material miniatures will be produced in and discussed our delay. For us it's been intense! Long 18-hour days, constant play testing groups, copy editing and pushing ourselves to further tweak and refine every aspect of the project.
Initially I had planned on keeping everyone up to date with smaller weekly updates, but there wasn't anything significant to share and I really don't want to spam peoples inboxes! This will shift in the upcoming months as milestones are reached and there's more to share. Things definitely aren't quite but we're working through a big stretch which will yield lots of news soon.
Production Update
We've had a pretty big change in the workflow. Originally, I was delivering files and resin masters to the factory and they were responsible for fully preparing the parts for plastic production. However, once production started and we spent countless hours going back and forth over details, we decided it would be best to make a major shift. The KDM project has now invested a significant chunk into a special software license so that I can personally review and tweak miniatures with the KD sculpting team before they are committed to production. The new workflow gives myself and our artists much greater quality control.
Here is an image showing some of the armor kit mastering, its a long detailed oriented process me and the KD team is now handling.
Then the talented engineers can focus on what they do best, which is preparing the figures for molding. This part of the process is very much like a puzzle, since with hard plastic molds there is no tolerance for undercuts at all. In some cases details need to be changed to meet the requirements of the draft angle and make production a reality.
Graphical Evolution
Anna is gonna kill me If I keep upgrading designs… but so long as there is time I just can't help myself! You can see here the mood / trait cards are now much easier to identify.
Oh my! I don't think I've shown you guys what one of the hit location cards looks like!
Effects of the Delay!
Upgraded Tokens - Originally the positive and negative attribute tokens had a simple text design. Since there's time Lokman illustrated a unique piece of art that embodies each attribute! I don't wanna spoil them all, so here are a couple of em.
Monster Crests - Here are some of the other monster Crests that the delay allowed us to include!
Mask Miniatures for the Core Game - Hector has wrapped up all the masks and they will now be included in the core game as a big thanks to everyone. There will be one of each in the core set, not exactly sure which sprue they will end up on yet tho.
Lion Knight Expansion Upgrade - Just another little detail the delay has allowed us to include, The Lion Knight expansion will now include a male and female armor kit compatible head and corresponding holy mask gear card.
Core game rulebook upgrades - We've added a section to the rulebook that talks about KDM's unique game play concepts. I loved this section… so we went back in and added more art to it! We also fleshed out a few more things and are up to oh… 40ish story events? This means the rulebook is pushing around 140+ pages now!
Quick Playtest Highlights
- Survivor spends 13 survival points in a single turn, attempting to flurry the Butcher to death. On the very last attack, his axe breaks and the Butcher ends up wiping the party a few rounds later.
- A Lvl 2 lion seemed to have an affinity for pulling the legs off its victims! Two dismembered legs later, it faced down its final target, a dual katar wielding survivor that managed to hold out and bring it down to its last 2 wounds before dying heroically.
- A settlement reduced to a single person decided to play it out, luckily they drew "Stranger in the Dark", which increased their population by one! This boon however, was met with instant tragedy as one of the two survivors discovered that the lanterns could be used to produce heat and badly burned their body! Mistaken for a flesh monster, the survivor was banished… reducing the population to 1 again!
- Hunting party critically injures an antelope causing it to constantly vomit blood from its large under maw. The effect of this is actually good, it gives bonus insanity to every survivor it passes over (vomiting blood on them of course) and due to the way the AI cards landed, it ended up running over the group several times before they broke out of its combo! Now officially the insane-est party to date.
Worldwide Shipping Stuff
No update yet and there will not be a firm update until we know the exact dimensions and weight of every package. We do not and cannot be expected to control the policies of every unique region and we must meet certain legal requirements to protect ourselves. Once we have isolated the exact fulfillment procedure that we will be using, we will let everyone know. Until then, all I can do is assure you were are exploring every option that comes our way.
Finally, to answer a recurring question.
KDM hired a professional copy editor and no, she doesn't check these updates (she might die after reading one). She's busy checking hundreds and hundreds of cards.
... Gonna sneak in some extra content now!!!!!!!!!!
Aya Origin Comic!
Lokman and I are having a blast working on this!
This Armor Kit mastering image came in while I was writing the update. It shows one of the many methods we are using to check all the sockets with as much scrutiny as possible.
Dragon KIng!?
I think the Dragon King is the most asked about expansion. I do very much like him, but he is not my personal favorite. (I just don't understand why the Dung Beetle Knight isn't everyones favorite like mine! ) Anyway, his sculpt... honestly? I am just not fully satisfied with it. This Dragon has had quite the legacy and I will share the whole story once I do have a version I am totally in love with and feel GREAT committing the huge amount of resources such a large kit will require. But until then, until I have something I am totally proud of to share. He will remain out of the spotlight.
I actually had Danny Cruz do a little art pass and we are incorporating some of his vision into the new final. Which I will share when its ready.
- Survivor spends 13 survival points in a single turn, attempting to flurry the Butcher to death. On the very last attack, his axe breaks and the Butcher ends up wiping the party a few rounds later.
- A Lvl 2 lion seemed to have an affinity for pulling the legs off its victims! Two dismembered legs later, it faced down its final target, a dual katar wielding survivor that managed to hold out and bring it down to its last 2 wounds before dying heroically.
- A settlement reduced to a single person decided to play it out, luckily they drew "Stranger in the Dark", which increased their population by one! This boon however, was met with instant tragedy as one of the two survivors discovered that the lanterns could be used to produce heat and badly burned their body! Mistaken for a flesh monster, the survivor was banished… reducing the population to 1 again!
- Hunting party critically injures an antelope causing it to constantly vomit blood from its large under maw. The effect of this is actually good, it gives bonus insanity to every survivor it passes over (vomiting blood on them of course) and due to the way the AI cards landed, it ended up running over the group several times before they broke out of its combo! Now officially the insane-est party to date.
Oh man, this is going to be the board game equivalent of Dwarf Fortress.
- Survivor spends 13 survival points in a single turn, attempting to flurry the Butcher to death. On the very last attack, his axe breaks and the Butcher ends up wiping the party a few rounds later.
- A Lvl 2 lion seemed to have an affinity for pulling the legs off its victims! Two dismembered legs later, it faced down its final target, a dual katar wielding survivor that managed to hold out and bring it down to its last 2 wounds before dying heroically.
- A settlement reduced to a single person decided to play it out, luckily they drew "Stranger in the Dark", which increased their population by one! This boon however, was met with instant tragedy as one of the two survivors discovered that the lanterns could be used to produce heat and badly burned their body! Mistaken for a flesh monster, the survivor was banished… reducing the population to 1 again!
- Hunting party critically injures an antelope causing it to constantly vomit blood from its large under maw. The effect of this is actually good, it gives bonus insanity to every survivor it passes over (vomiting blood on them of course) and due to the way the AI cards landed, it ended up running over the group several times before they broke out of its combo! Now officially the insane-est party to date.
Oh man, this is going to be the board game equivalent of Dwarf Fortress.
I mentioned something similar to this in the previous thread but these comments have renewed my worries. I am both incredibly reassured and incredibly put off by these tidbits. On the one hand, I want this game to be like Dwarf Fortress. I want it to be difficult, unforgiving, and even unfair at times. That's the mood I got from the game when I kickstarted it and that's what I'm looking forward to playing.
But if lions, butchers, and antelopes are massacring entire parties regularly, and settlements are getting wiped out, then you'll have to start the game all over. Which, again, I would normally be fine with. I love games like Dwarf Fortress where you expect to lose eventually and when you do, you just restart.
But if all that is true, then the expansions I purchased (very nearly all of them) will make the game incredibly top heavy. I have tons of final bosses and very few minions to grind. If those minions are as fierce as they seem I'm afraid I'll get tired of fighting them over and over long before I ever reach the final bosses.
I mentioned this the last time I brought up this worry, but what I would really like to see, to make me worry less, is more low and mid range monsters being worked on. Obviously though, it's a bit late for that at this point. I know the real solution will probably be to just "save" my party before I fight one boss and use that same party to fight other bosses. But that ruins some of the story driven element that I'm so looking forward to.
Ah well. Honestly, it's probably more a problem of having too many top tier bosses than it is about not having enough low level minions. And I suppose that's one of those "good problems" I hear about so often.
New model up on the site... shipping to Australia on top of the $26 for the model is too much at the moment... if it was 3 then no issue, but $40 for one model too much even for me.
Makaleth wrote: New model up on the site... shipping to Australia on top of the $26 for the model is too much at the moment... if it was 3 then no issue, but $40 for one model too much even for me.
What is the new model? All it's showing me is the Dung Beetle Knight and the Buff Angel Dude.
You should post them in the KS comments section and/or email Poots directly to see what you can find out.
And please let us know what you do find out!
Got a response:
Every monster in KD:M is considered a "boss monster." Each monster has 3 levels, but lower levels are not worth as many resources. Being prepared, trying different gear load outs and weighing the pros and cons of hunting a more powerful threat for greater rewards is one of the great pleasures of the game.
Which doesn't address my exact fear. I imagine some boss monsters are more boss than others. But still, I trust in Poots so it's nice to know that he has, if nothing else, seen my worry and isn't worried himself.
I always associate "grind" with "repeat easy tasks until you accumulate enough stuff to move on".... my impression so far is that most things are quite deadly so that it should be fairly challenging each time unless you deliberately choose to hit down... at least I hope that's the case
I think that in the case of my group we're going to grind until there is enough kit (weapons and armour) for everybody to go around, plus a few spares. I'd hate to be the new guy who joins a party that has been at work for some time now and has to make due with a piece of stone shard while the others already have hide armour and swords.
I have the uncanny feeling that this game may feature an anti-grind rule (go after too many low level monsters or accumulate too much too fast and a higher level comes after). Also, the random nature of what you could encounter will probably add to the woes!
Poots recently made a comment on the subject of magnetization:
Just so you guys know, I cannot officially endorse magnetizing. It is for advanced hobbyists only. Rare earth magnets are not child or pet safe. Do not buy them. That disclaimer aside, I think the arms and waist would be easy to manage. If hands are glued to arms it would make the whole customization much easier, just a little less flexible in the end. I'll see what I can do about sneaking extra bits onto sprues. Once we go into sprue layout.
Sway wrote: Poots recently made a comment on the subject of magnetization:
Just so you guys know, I cannot officially endorse magnetizing. It is for advanced hobbyists only. Rare earth magnets are not child or pet safe. Do not buy them. That disclaimer aside, I think the arms and waist would be easy to manage. If hands are glued to arms it would make the whole customization much easier, just a little less flexible in the end. I'll see what I can do about sneaking extra bits onto sprues. Once we go into sprue layout.
This man never ceases to amaze me with the way he's willing to bend over backwords to aid the fans.
Truly a credit to his company, the wargaming community, and humanity itself.
Sinful Hero wrote: I wouldn't go so far as to say giant boobie monsters and cheesecake pinups are a great boon to humanity, but he does seem eager to please.
Sweet fancy Moses, that Storm Knight is friggin' awesome. I've found that I really like the Knight monsters, here's to hoping the Storm Knight is an eventual Monster expansion, or a monster you can fight in KD.
Experiment of Death contains a PVC Wetnurse, Pin-up Twilight Knight, and maybe something else. It was a test run, and the models are a little smaller than their resin versions. Some have noticed a loss of detail.
They were allowing people to email Anna for a little while after the delay was announced but they have since stopped that so whatever you've ordered now is your lot.
I think the Storm Knight is great! I have decided to order him to use in place of Gorm. I plan on selling my Gorm with no cards or anything just the model for cheap.
For those lucky few that have bought KD models from their online store, how long does it take from when you put in the order to when it gets to your address? Also does shipping information get sent out so you can kind of sorta track it?
Alfndrate wrote: For those lucky few that have bought KD models from their online store, how long does it take from when you put in the order to when it gets to your address? Also does shipping information get sent out so you can kind of sorta track it?
I don't think I got tracking info last time. But I've never had one take more than 5-7 business days.
I have always received mine in under a week's time.
However, I placed an order for all said new models in less than an hour after they were posted. I received my order confirmation email that night and nothing else.
I am assuming if others are having the same issues that there is something else going on at KD central. I am not worried as Poots is one hell of a guy.
I got an email saying that they've confirmed my order from Last Friday. I checked the site here today and it said that my order hadn't been fulfilled, so I wasn't sure if I'd come home and have a shiny new model.
Update didn't say it's one of Myth's sculptors but she is done in the Myth style and was always intended to be done in the style from the start she won't fit with the other versions of the Twilght Knight either as they are different sizes.
I like others prefer KD style but obviously it was a Myth campaign so I never expected normal KD style. I think it looks great for a Myth figure. Great attention to the required twilight knight details like the sword, knee guards, scaled plating, and of course, the cape.
Every Myth backer got 1 and 1 only once they pledged Minion level ($75) or above they couldn't be bought separately. Poots bought one of Trickster ($2000) pledges and had them make this for eveyone as his design your own mini.
Alfndrate wrote: I'm still waiting on my Warrior of the Sun Male... which is now listed as out of stock on the website... *sigh* Not sure if I'll ever get it.
Melon-fether, the shipping info just showed up
Have hope, I also ordered quite a bit (well, all of the new ones) and have not got my confirmation either. I'm not worried. At worst, Adam and Anna are busy. At best, they are already on the way
Dearest backers, I come with a pair of upgrades and a gift!
( in a super duper rush, did not spell check this one, anna is asleep and I beg you for forgiveness! )
I am happy to be spending another holiday season with you all! It has been a truly special year and I gotta admit its actually really hard to stop working for a few days. Until the new years I will be dialing my time down to just 2 hours of work a day, so i can keep ontop of key communication with the plastic production team and a few of the freelancers that aren't taking time off.
Upgrades
The forsakers mask, a piece of gear you can earn from defeating the butcher is also now represented in miniature form. It was just too cool to pass up! The original skull helm has had another art pass. The original was interesting but the new one feels much better. In addition they will also be represented in miniature form for all those budding bone warriors out there!
Gift This is my gift to everyone for being awesome. I spent some time with our digital sculptor working on some more elaborate hair styles. These were initially a creative exploration, but they turned out so well we have decided to share them! These extra heads will be included in every core game box.
I am rolling all the other updates I have at this point into a larger update which should be around... the second week in January. ( maybe end of first week?) I am expecting a lot of plastics so it would be nice to have a little time to assemble everything, take photos and then just share it all at once.
I just wanted to say again, thank you so very much for being part of this kickstarter and part of my life for the last year. We are so much closer now to bringing this truly titanic project into reality and all of this simply would not be possible without you. Although there was a certain comfort in taking it slow, this push is worth it and I just can't wait until we are all playing KD:M together!
1) My only prior experience with KD miniatures had been the genitalia/vomiting/mammary-focused stuff
2) I thought the pinups were the primary focus of the game (when they were actually just a primary focus of the latter part of the Kickstarter).
3) It looked like I had to spend an additional $200 or so to get a "complete" version of the game with decent enemy variety.
4) I had my doubts about a one-man operation delivering on that number of models to that many customers.
I later did pledge on the recent Black Friday Survivor-level (despite a further premium for doing so) because everything I've been hearing about this project has been positive, and I've seen nothing but love and care in the recent project updates.
But I'm still a bit worried, honestly. There's still so many things that can go wrong, especially when China's involved!
1) Poots does stellar work and showed the figures (at least renders/art) during the kickstarter.
2) Poots has stellar customer service and actually gives more than half a damn about the people he sells to.
3) CMoN, McVey, Mantic, and Romeo aren't involved.
4) Oh, did I mention Poots?
I'll be honest. I really don't care a whole lot about the game. I'm basically in it for the models. I've got six of his resins already and they are among the best models I've seen.
Bioptic wrote: Yeah, well - I didn't initially pledge because:
1) My only prior experience with KD miniatures had been the genitalia/vomiting/mammary-focused stuff
2) I thought the pinups were the primary focus of the game (when they were actually just a primary focus of the latter part of the Kickstarter).
3) It looked like I had to spend an additional $200 or so to get a "complete" version of the game with decent enemy variety.
4) I had my doubts about a one-man operation delivering on that number of models to that many customers.
I later did pledge on the recent Black Friday Survivor-level (despite a further premium for doing so) because everything I've been hearing about this project has been positive, and I've seen nothing but love and care in the recent project updates.
But I'm still a bit worried, honestly. There's still so many things that can go wrong, especially when China's involved!
So you basically didn't look at the actual project at all, eh?
Not entirely true! I watched the KS video, read the latest update, went through the pledge levels, and scrolled a fair way down the title page - there's rather a lot on there!
Even after subsequently looking into the project in a great deal of detail, I still think that the base game lacks monster variety, given the price point and the focus of gameplay. I still think that, however excellent the models and production values, it is going to be a very expensive prospect to own the 'whole' game, especially at retail. And while I think that Poots is a truly excellent human being, I still very much think that large projects from one-men teams have an inherently higher risk factor, which is definitely a deterrent to some pledgers.
But all of the above was simply an attempted explanation of why some people, who might be the ideal audience for this game, may not have initially pledged.
Incidentally to the massive success of the Kickstarter, I think the amount of goodwill and discussion the project has generated during development is going to translate into a very strong retail demand for those that missed out. I get the impression that this is certainly not universally the case, which is presumably why you still see brand new £20 copies of Sedition Wars floating around...
Keep in mind that each individual monster isn't like a random encounter that you'd find in your average RPG. Each one is a mind-flaying, soul-raping, nightmare-fueling hellbeast that exists for the purpose of destroying you and everyone you love.
Each fight is a carefully crafted boss-level encounter. With that focus in mind, the variety isn't actually that bad.
Fafnir wrote: Keep in mind that each individual monster isn't like a random encounter that you'd find in your average RPG. Each one is a mind-flaying, soul-raping, nightmare-fueling hellbeast that exists for the purpose of destroying you and everyone you love.
So more like Dark Souls, then.
Anyway, is this even going to have a retail release? I remember there being some uncertainty with that before.
Fafnir wrote: Keep in mind that each individual monster isn't like a random encounter that you'd find in your average RPG. Each one is a mind-flaying, soul-raping, nightmare-fueling hellbeast that exists for the purpose of destroying you and everyone you love.
So more like Dark Souls, then.
Anyway, is this even going to have a retail release? I remember there being some uncertainty with that before.
It's probably going to be a limited retail release- I think he mentioned wanting to work solely with brick and mortar stores. He didn't want to deal with online discounters, and undercuts. I doubt it will be widely available, but you never know.
Bioptic wrote: Yeah, well - I didn't initially pledge because: .... 4) I had my doubts about a one-man operation delivering on that number of models to that many customers.
I later did pledge on the recent Black Friday Survivor-level (despite a further premium for doing so) because everything I've been hearing about this project has been positive, and I've seen nothing but love and care in the recent project updates.
But I'm still a bit worried, honestly. There's still so many things that can go wrong, especially when China's involved!
I've been to the factory in China where these are being made (see this thread) and can say with confidence that the terms that they have together, the skills and niceness of the people in that factory and the sizes of the teams involved, both at the factory and on poot's end give me absolutely no concern about the project delivering. I've spoken to poots on a number of occasions and while things were pretty crazy at the start due to the immensity of the kickstarter, things now look very good and there will certainly be a very high quality product delivered at the end, in line with people's expectations.
Cool Mini Or Not. Check out their website at coolminiornot.com.
As I understand it, they underwrite a lot of Kickstarters as publishers - Zombicide, Wrath of Kings, Cadwallon, etc. There's a slew of opinions on how they're handling Kickstarters, so I won't rehash them here.
Just saw this over on Thomas David's blog, originally posted on Nov. 15th apparently.
Hello everyone!
New article in Kingdom Death serie. Today here's a very detailed miniature; the Storm Knight!
This impressive boss have been very fun to do, and his style his close to the famous Flower Knight!
It is 65 mm tall and have been made with Fimo and Magic sculpt putty, as usual.
Stay tuned!
@Everyone. Yes we are behind the original estimated delivery date. And you are all backers, not customers. Starting fulfillment in march is not likely, as all of February the factories in china will be shut down for Chinese new year. It also takes on the average 6 weeks for a shipment to travel across the sea and clear customs.
@Everyone. Yes we are behind the original estimated delivery date. And you are all backers, not customers. Starting fulfillment in march is not likely, as all of February the factories in china will be shut down for Chinese new year. It also takes on the average 6 weeks for a shipment to travel across the sea and clear customs.
Aaand he's lost me as a future customer. Good going.
It also cements my resolution to auction off all of my "pledge rewards" save the resin Phoenix, once they arrive, that is. If I manage to get back what I spent, I'll be happy.
@Everyone. Yes we are behind the original estimated delivery date. And you are all backers, not customers. Starting fulfillment in march is not likely, as all of February the factories in china will be shut down for Chinese new year. It also takes on the average 6 weeks for a shipment to travel across the sea and clear customs.
Aaand he's lost me as a future customer. Good going.
It also cements my resolution to auction off all of my "pledge rewards" save the resin Phoenix, once they arrive, that is. If I manage to get back what I spent, I'll be happy.
Weird, the vibe I got was that he placed "backers" higher than "customers". Based on his communication that's the vibe I got too. That he takes very seriously the supporters that got his product off the ground.
It sucks, but, yeah, more than 3 months is hardly criminally slow in the KS world. Was really hoping this one would be close to on time since it's been running smoothly from what it appears, but them's the breaks :/
@Everyone. Yes we are behind the original estimated delivery date. And you are all backers, not customers. Starting fulfillment in march is not likely, as all of February the factories in china will be shut down for Chinese new year. It also takes on the average 6 weeks for a shipment to travel across the sea and clear customs.
Aaand he's lost me as a future customer. Good going.
It also cements my resolution to auction off all of my "pledge rewards" save the resin Phoenix, once they arrive, that is. If I manage to get back what I spent, I'll be happy.
That part is in reference to another posters comment of "this is not your project your nothing but a customer like all of us". And that comment was aimed at another poster who was reacting with hostility and negativity. There is a significant difference between a customer and a backer, and its worth remembering that.
Sell if you want, you'll no doubt make money off the deal. But at least know the context of the comment. Jeez, what a soundbite culture we've become.
I'm proud to be a backer and not a customer. I think more people pledging on Kickstarter need to understand the difference. And I think more Creator's need to be like Adam and also recognize the difference. I can only think of a few other companies that continue to provide free stuff to the backers after the campaign is long over.
I'll be happy to receive this game mid-year. I can't even call it a delay, as the original expected delivery date was for a much smaller game.
Yep context is key here have a read through the recent comments and you'll see it kicked off between 2 backers Adam's comment is very much in the he values backers as much as if not more than customers sense you are not merely a customer to him as 1 backer put it , quoted on it's own it can be taken completely the opposite way to what he meant.
Fair enough. I guess I'm sour after so many campaigns, or should I say company sockpuppets and apologists, whipping out the "you're merely a backer, so shut up" card every time someone demands to be treated with respect, like a customer that he in fact is. It's the number one reason I'll never back any campaign again.
Still, I'll be selling off all the resin I pledged for. If somebody's interested in taking it off my hands for the KS prices, send me a PM and I'll get back to you with a list of what I'm to receive.
I've come to a similar conclusion as -DE-, albeit for different reasons.
I'd like to rid myself of the pledge I put down for Kingdom Death: Monster.
Ideally I'd like to make back what I spent on it. I'll be recieving an all plastic order, Is it possible to somehow transfer a pledge or would it be easier to just wait it out and sell afterward?
It's a very small gamble, depending on if/when retail hits (although the Kickstarter prices are almost certainly a good discount over that), but selling it off item by item definitely maximises profit if you can be bothered
For example, I'm at the survivor level only. I'd be quite interested in the Lantern Festival expansion, and have my doubts about waiting for retail, and paying the higher price, and VAT on top of that, and postage etc. - I'd be willing to pay a higher than Kickstarter price for it, but don't have a spare extra $250 for all the other expansions.
Transferring a pledge would involve changing your shipping address and a lot of trust from both parties, or re-shipping it once delivered!
@Everyone. Yes we are behind the original estimated delivery date. And you are all backers, not customers. Starting fulfillment in march is not likely, as all of February the factories in china will be shut down for Chinese new year. It also takes on the average 6 weeks for a shipment to travel across the sea and clear customs.
Aaand he's lost me as a future customer. Good going.
It also cements my resolution to auction off all of my "pledge rewards" save the resin Phoenix, once they arrive, that is. If I manage to get back what I spent, I'll be happy.
I have a feeling you're misreading Adam's comment here. If you read his updates and other comments, Adam appears to view the KS backers having a much higher esteem for having faith in him sight unseen than a customer who waits until he can hold it in his hand before committing. As an example, KS backers will get the chance to add more things via pledge manager just before fulfillment based on his comments. Customers who got in on the Black Friday packages will not.
Unless that's what bothers you...in which case carry on.
Krinsath wrote: As an example, KS backers will get the chance to add more things via pledge manager just before fulfillment based on his comments. Customers who got in on the Black Friday packages will not.
Can you cite this? Not questioning, just curious, as I'd like to change some stuff and don't want to get my hopes up for nothing.
Krinsath wrote: As an example, KS backers will get the chance to add more things via pledge manager just before fulfillment based on his comments. Customers who got in on the Black Friday packages will not.
Can you cite this? Not questioning, just curious, as I'd like to change some stuff and don't want to get my hopes up for nothing.
I don't have a link handy or anything. But he posted a comment around the time of the Black Friday buy-in that said there would be one more chance to adjust things via the pledge manager before everything shipped.
Other comments responding to multiple people where he said this, but this one was nice and simple:
We will have a final round of letting people add to their pledge, but it won't be until next year.
The end of this comment also makes Adam's view re:backers a bit clearer (missed comma aside):
I can see where Justin is coming from. Not only does it dilute the purity of what Kickstarter is meant to be a little bit[,] It also shows that we are devoting resources away from the project to handle more on-boarding. That is the major reason why we made it much more restrictive for late backers, they are not added to the pledge manager.
I've been to the factory in China where these are being made (see this thread) and can say with confidence that the terms that they have together, the skills and niceness of the people in that factory and the sizes of the teams involved, both at the factory and on poot's end give me absolutely no concern about the project delivering. I've spoken to poots on a number of occasions and while things were pretty crazy at the start due to the immensity of the kickstarter, things now look very good and there will certainly be a very high quality product delivered at the end, in line with people's expectations.
That's awesome to hear, lego! I really want WGF to do well, and all those who have been giving them jobs of course.
And that Storm Knight looks incredible. Probably won't be buying any of this myself- too many other projects. But I want it to succeed!
That is, whenever I make a public post ( anywhere ), I should always include any and all context related to the information I am sharing. Soundbytes can be tricky!
So that kickstarter comment should have been unfolded. And read more like this:
@Everyone. Yes we are behind the original estimated delivery date of november 2013. The overfunded project and deliberate choice to pursue hard plastic instead of pvc is the direct cause of this. Everyone here is a backer, which is something I value at a premium compared to a pure company to customer relationship. In the update before the holiday update, I pushed the estimated release date back to Q2. Starting fulfillment in march is not likely, as all of February the factories in china will be shut down for Chinese new year. It also takes on the average 6 weeks for a shipment to travel across the sea and clear customs. However, once everything is finally sea bound, I will have a much more concise date on when fulfillment will begin."
spiralingcadaver wrote: It sucks, but, yeah, more than 3 months is hardly criminally slow in the KS world. Was really hoping this one would be close to on time since it's been running smoothly from what it appears, but them's the breaks :/
And at least this one actually has a good reason for delays (absolutely nobody was expecting it to explode like it did), other than "We're ridiculous optimists and based our deadline on nothing unexpected happening ever."
@Everyone. Yes we are behind the original estimated delivery date. And you are all backers, not customers. Starting fulfillment in march is not likely, as all of February the factories in china will be shut down for Chinese new year. It also takes on the average 6 weeks for a shipment to travel across the sea and clear customs.
Aaand he's lost me as a future customer. Good going.
It also cements my resolution to auction off all of my "pledge rewards" save the resin Phoenix, once they arrive, that is. If I manage to get back what I spent, I'll be happy.
Thats a little harsh, don't you think?
He's been nothing but top drawer on the whole project, That blurb there doesn't mean anything at all.
Seeing as the top shelf quality of how I've seen this project go, I'll go on out and say that your misquoting him here.
Which has already been covered, if you'd care to read further posts. Doesn't change the fact that it applies to plenty of kickstarters and is frankly a disgusting attitude to have towards your clients.
Yep. I feel incredibly fortunate to have (so far) selected projects where the creators put forth the effort to make the backers feel valued, even if the timelines or products don't always work out like everyone hoped. There's a certain level of appreciation to be shown by trying to deliver that extra little bit over what "plain" retail gets that makes me more likely to give creators shiny gold rocks in the future.
Having read plenty of horror stories, and dodged a few bullets, I do think we've chosen quite well in that regard with backing KD:M and the time when our packages full of yummy goodness appear will not be soon enough.
- Living Rules -
We will just have to wait and see! I plan on supporting and nurturing the Kingdom Death community to the fullest extent of our ability. But without the game being released its something thats very hard to predict. It's also very true that until all the shipping starts, all of the internal resources are just too busy to begin laying the proper groundwork for community support. The very loose plan is to just tackle it in a very organic fashion, so that we can grow it to meet the demands of the player base as it goes. I see KD:M's future being all about custom campaigns and I'd love to make future releases that support that notion. That way a gaming group can really decide their customization level before starting a campaign. Some players might enjoy for example, a more in depth survivor generation system that gave them a few personality quirks, while others may just enjoy the pure tactical and very math side of the game and could setup an aggressive timeline filled with nothing but very hard fights in an effort to get their settlement ahead of schedule and have more time to tackle the optional legendary monsters hidden in the game.
I'd also love to publish online rules for playing with a game master. Where an extra player actually controls the monster by drawing a "hand" from its AI deck.
And lastly, we have already started talking about monster on monster combat with a pair of custom AI decks.
The possibilities feel kinda limitless right now! And it's really hard to push everything away and fully focused with the tasks at hand but its a big big must!
All I can say, is that I want to support the life of the game with a slew of super experimental rules ( in addition to expansions ) and if stuff sticks then we can figure out how to roll it into a published version of sorts.
Sounds interesting. It would be nice to be able to get the rules as a tablet app that updates with any optional rules as and when. Unlikely, but I can dream, right?
New update today with some outstanding plastics, and sprues. It's in a spoiler because the last two art pictures are NSFW.
Spoiler:
Project Update #81: DOUBLE BOSS UPDATE
Posted by Kingdom Death ♥ Like
Boss Update
Hello backers! I hope everyone had a good holiday!! Our holidays are a fond distant memory and despite the cold here in Brooklyn, NY the team has been burning up working like crazy!
Estimated Fulfillment Start - Q2 2014
We are still looking at Q2 to begin packing and shipping rewards. To be honest, a great deal of the timing depends on production and shipping tables. I'll keep everyone informed as we zero in on everything!
International Fulfillment
We have done our research, spoken to many fulfillment companies and people who have used them. We discovered that no one on earth is going to care as much about our project as we are. As a result I decided that WE MUST be the ones that pack your rewards. I can't even imagine what an outside group would do to resins??? Until we know exact box dimensions and weights, which are all estimates, I cannot isolate our final strategy for it but we will continue to look for some sort of European handler where we might send already packed boxes that could ship from one point in Europe.
Additional Pledging
The next 2 months are our most crucial months of this entire project. Because of this, we absolutely cannot be distracted and will not be accepting any additional pledges, reopening pledges, etc during this time. Once we are past this, as promised we will re-open pledges for kickstarter backers to increase their pledge and select more plastic rewards. (Sorry, resin cannot be swapped out or added, resin production is locked. ) Late backers from the recent black friday special (nov 29th 2013), will not be able to increase or adjust their pledges in any way. It is, sadly a restriction in order to keep everything manageable.
Super Late Backers
At this time, we are not taking on any more backers. It touches me on such a profound level that people still reach out and ask to be part of the project and while I really do want to include everyone… right now we simply cannot handle anymore backers in good conscience. The next chance to jump in will be when we start taking pre-orders. The pre-order prices will need to reflect the actual retail cost of the project. I am very sorry, but this is all part of small business growing pains and making sure we don't overextend.
Messengers & The Watcher
Here they are in all their plastic glory! I've been advised that these are test shots, and the faces should be a little more crisp on the final production run.
I was super worried about how this aerial monster would translate into plastic and how frail it might be. I decided to bump up his size from the original resin a little bit and I gotta say… I am very pleased! The sense of motion was well preserved and it’s quite sturdy! (I know because I dropped it, of course ).
Dragon King
As I mentioned before, I was not fully satisfied with the current digital Dragon King sculpt. I think I could have swallowed that feeling and moved on… but… but… Kingdom Death has never really been about hitting the "good enough" point and moving on. And if it wasn't blowing my mind well, I think as the project director I was doing it wrong! I guess this could be seen as one of the true boons of the projects overfunding / delay. We had the funds and just barely the time, to start him from scratch... so we can all thank Thomas David for creating the all new version of the Dragon King, sculpted with his very own masterful hands. Here he is at about 90% and oh how it BLOWS MY FRAGILE MIND!
What this Poots? Still sneaking more artwork into the core book? Here is the full page that will go alongside the nemesis encounter rules. hehehehe!
And then a page from the Sunstalker Campaign. It gets its very own intimacy table, instead of using the one from the core book. It's possible that some of their young may develop some interesting color shifting abilities!
Did I ever show off the Lantern Sword that is craft able at the core game blacksmith? Its an early Iron weapon so it has some flaws. I am totally in love with its style!
Oh yeah! I keep forgetting to mention this, but we have a full time Game Master! His full time responsibility has been to constantly play the game and to organize play testing groups. The number of hours and people whom have given us feedback and helped polish the experience is getting pretty staggering. I am so so so excited to keep moving this project along and get everything into your hands!
I'm going to scream bloody murder if those are never available to the general public. That level of quality could get me into skirmish fantasy games again.
Please tell me they will be available through his online shop, at one point?
Mathieu Raymond wrote: I'm going to scream bloody murder if those are never available to the general public. That level of quality could get me into skirmish fantasy games again.
Please tell me they will be available through his online shop, at one point?
They'd have to be skirmish games, though, as I believe the scale will make these look like giants next to most fantasy ranges.
The plastics look great! The breasts are all separate pieces from the bodies, lol
Mathieu Raymond wrote: I'm going to scream bloody murder if those are never available to the general public. That level of quality could get me into skirmish fantasy games again.
Please tell me they will be available through his online shop, at one point?
I doubt Wargames Factory will just throw the molds away after it's done. So, I'm sure the plastics will continue to be available.
The Watcher is part of the box game and the Dragon King will be a general retail release. All of the messengers,Kara, Holiday White Speaker Nico, Allison Twilight Knight, Candy and Adam and Anna Survivors are only available through the kickstarter and in the future will be available in a limited fashion for various promotions/special events - various promotions/special events gives a lot of scope for release outside KS but they won't be a general retail release.
And the fact that its like a couple of person operation....... THAT alone speaks volumes to Adams chops.
I can't say it enough....
SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!!
Congratz on the project. The style, the character, and the whole concept have to be some of the coolest things on the table I've seen in quite some time.
And the fact that its happening without a bunch of gak says it all right there.
I love how the Dragon King manages to border on obscene, but still manage to be able to be publicly displayed at the same time. Quite an accomplishment, imho.
I am so happy to see those sprues. These models are looking absolutely incredible.
I have had enough with Mantic, McVey, and even PP and their "versions" of plastic that really aren't. DFG and Poots understand how to do it right and they are the only two Kickstarters that haven't let their target audience down. I can only hope that someone shows these pics to the guys at Raging Heroes before they take that well worn road to mediocrity.
I think I left the messengers out of my original pledge... I may have to add them back in at the first opportunity as they are great. The more I see of the models, the less confident I am at painting them well enough though :/
Breotan wrote: I am so happy to see those sprues. These models are looking absolutely incredible.
I have had enough with Mantic, McVey, and even PP and their "versions" of plastic that really aren't. DFG and Poots understand how to do it right and they are the only two Kickstarters that haven't let their target audience down. I can only hope that someone shows these pics to the guys at Raging Heroes before they take that well worn road to mediocrity.
it is plastic though, PVC, polystyrene, finecast, trollforged and all those castable resins they are all plastic. I'm pretty sure lots of people would be using WGF if they could but its no secret that they are already fending off excess customers with a gakky stick.
Breotan wrote: I am so happy to see those sprues. These models are looking absolutely incredible.
I have had enough with Mantic, McVey, and even PP and their "versions" of plastic that really aren't. DFG and Poots understand how to do it right and they are the only two Kickstarters that haven't let their target audience down. I can only hope that someone shows these pics to the guys at Raging Heroes before they take that well worn road to mediocrity.
it is plastic though, PVC, polystyrene, finecast, trollforged and all those castable resins they are all plastic. I'm pretty sure lots of people would be using WGF if they could but its no secret that they are already fending off excess customers with a gakky stick.
Points for pedantry, I guess, but you know what he meant!
Breotan wrote: I am so happy to see those sprues. These models are looking absolutely incredible.
I have had enough with Mantic, McVey, and even PP and their "versions" of plastic that really aren't. DFG and Poots understand how to do it right and they are the only two Kickstarters that haven't let their target audience down. I can only hope that someone shows these pics to the guys at Raging Heroes before they take that well worn road to mediocrity.
Spot on, this his looks incredible - it would be horrible if it was restic. Wargames Factory also handled WWX and they were fantastic as well.
Adam did mention a while back the company in China were using Kingdom Death as a showcase of their abilities. But I'm just not certain what makes these models looks so dang good. Is it Adam's commitment (read: obsession) with quality or the skill from the manufacturer? The world may never know.
Dat Dragon King. Holy Mother on High! Easily my favorite model in KD:M now.
consider the Dragon King, where Adam had paid for (and received) a perfectly serviceable 3D sculpt for it (no doubt something that many companies would have been happy to make and sell),
but no it didn't quite 'hit the spot' so into the reject pile it went and he pulled in Thomas David to start from scratch on a whole new model (based on what Mierce has said about the costs of their high end sculptors I wouldn't be surprised if this was in the $3-5000)
Similarly the recent grab bags containing unreleased KD stuff showed that it wasn't the first time Adam has decided that something didn't quite work. The alt Mother is good, the alt great game hunter is great and were obviously produced in some numbers as they appeared in many bags but neither made it to sale and new minis were commissioned and made
on the WGF side there's clearly great skill in cutting the models up for moulding (although having Adam keep an eye on things too is critical as we saw in a previous update where mould attachment point was right on a face which he asked them to change and not to do on anything else in the future), doing the CnC work and finally in casting
It takes skill from both of them to do so, both are skilled, Adam is a perfectionist and WGF are willing to go along and do the implementations he suggests/ demands.
I remember vaguely a thread on TMP where it was revealed Poots was paying top end prices to get the right sculpts, given the size of that dragon I could well believe its even higher than that.
The dragon king went from a miniature I wasn't that interested in to probably the best of the big gribblies.
Yes this is definitely more of a marriage where two disparate skillsets come together, work out where their minor incompatibilities are and then produce something better than either could do on their own.
Adam is definitely a perfectionist and has a clear vision of what he wants. He is also, unlike some perfectionists, a bit steadier on the whole "I do eventually need to create a product" angle as evidenced by the fact that he *could* have been okay with the original sculpt. Since he seems to actually have a decent grasp on project management (a skill sorely lacking in many KSes), they went back to the drawing board because they could. I like the results of that as well.
On the flip side, from the DFG project we see where the engineers at WGF are not just drones that take the plans in, spit out a mold and call it a day. They really look at the designs and try to find neat improvements that are possible, as shown by their feedback to Mark that "you know, we could make the APC wheels actually move if we did it this way...and would you like those to be made out of actual rubber?" which were both things that Mark hadn't originally intended but if it's do-able, why not? So clearly they really do partner with the designer to make the product as good as it can be.
None of this is making the wait for Q2 any easier though!
Clearly both are skilled. I'd wager Adam's passion and exacting standards couple well with WGF's work ethic and skill.
With the ability to adjust pledges, I might toss more money Adam's way. These miniatures will probably be the best in my, admittedly limited, collection.
Also, I need to purchase new brushes. Adam, any chance of KD branded hobby tools? The name is becoming synonymous with quality.
@Dentry: Take a look at W&N Series 7 brushes. I swear by the things! Pricey, but very well worth it. You can just about do anything with a size 0. Just be sure to clean em well!
The update is fantastic, and the models are beyond compare. Additionally hearing that those who kick started will get to add on more is great news.
However I do want to say, and its not really negative but the additional delay is worrisome to me. I know its very common with kick starters to delay multiple times etc and it's probably just my OCD on timeliness kicking in but the further delay defiantly has me a tad worried. Especially sense further add ons are being put on to the core. Further more this update was meant originally to be posted about two weeks prior. I'm very sure Poots has everything under control but I think it is worth noting.
Victorraven wrote: The update is fantastic, and the models are beyond compare. Additionally hearing that those who kick started will get to add on more is great news.
However I do want to say, and its not really negative but the additional delay is worrisome to me. I know its very common with kick starters to delay multiple times etc and it's probably just my OCD on timeliness kicking in but the further delay defiantly has me a tad worried. Especially sense further add ons are being put on to the core. Further more this update was meant originally to be posted about two weeks prior. I'm very sure Poots has everything under control but I think it is worth noting.
Getting anything from China in Q1 of any year is difficult as the country shuts down for 2 to 6 weeks in Feb for New year celebrations. I've seen quite a few KS that missed their November/December release and now are scheduled for April/May at the earliest.
The delays are my responsibility directly. The choice to move away from PVC and the additional time spent play testing and -tuning the overall game and its expansions were both my decision. Neither of these choices were taken lightly and a long laundry list of pro's and con's were evaluated before hand.
The opportunity that the backers presented Kingdom Death:Monster as a project is utterly breath-taking. As the project creator, I feel the best way to show my unending gratitude and respect is simply to do the absolute best I can. In all fields of the project, including but not limited to, communication, presentation, quality, business and finally fulfillment.
To me, this is what kickstarter is meant to be about. And it goes well beyond a simple "consumer to customer" relationship. The backers are special to me, they made this little dream come into reality. I just wish I had a few clones of myself running around so I could play the game full time, hang out with backers online AND manage the list of other things the project needs.
The effort and commitment shown to both the project and the backers has always been apparent (and appreciated!), Adam. I don't think many will disagree with that.
Hands down Kingdom Death is my most anticipated kickstarter, the best I've backed. Delays, even when done for the best reasons, are still delays. But the blow is softened considerably in the case of KD because of the reason for those delays.
Thanks for all your (and your teams) work so far. Looking forward to buying more of your products. /thumbs up
Dentry wrote: The effort and commitment shown to both the project and the backers has always been apparent (and appreciated!), Adam. I don't think many will disagree with that.
Hands down Kingdom Death is my most anticipated kickstarter, the best I've backed. Delays, even when done for the best reasons, are still delays. But the blow is softened considerably in the case of KD because of the reason for those delays.
Thanks for all your (and your teams) work so far. Looking forward to buying more of your products. /thumbs up
Getting anything from China in Q1 of any year is difficult as the country shuts down for 2 to 6 weeks in Feb for New year celebrations. I've seen quite a few KS that missed their November/December release and now are scheduled for April/May at the earliest.
Looking at shipping companies' websites, it's apparent that China does not "shut down" for 6 weeks. They do for 10 to 14 days, which is very comparable to the Gregorian calender's year end. A lot of employees take time off to be with the kids since they are out of school. It will slow down shipping considerably since slow boat is not just a figure of speech, but the country is back to chugging out plastic crack quite rapidly. I doubt they could produce so much of the world's goods working only 46 weeks of the year.
I really don't remember what I'm getting now. I know I got some of the messengers, but the only one I remember for sure is Guts. If I didn't get Kamina, I really need to add him in because seeing the physical model really makes me want him. The messengers really look awesome though, especially Guts.
kingdomdeath wrote: The delays are my responsibility directly. The choice to move away from PVC and the additional time spent play testing and -tuning the overall game and its expansions were both my decision. Neither of these choices were taken lightly and a long laundry list of pro's and con's were evaluated before hand.
The opportunity that the backers presented Kingdom Death:Monster as a project is utterly breath-taking. As the project creator, I feel the best way to show my unending gratitude and respect is simply to do the absolute best I can. In all fields of the project, including but not limited to, communication, presentation, quality, business and finally fulfillment.
To me, this is what kickstarter is meant to be about. And it goes well beyond a simple "consumer to customer" relationship. The backers are special to me, they made this little dream come into reality. I just wish I had a few clones of myself running around so I could play the game full time, hang out with backers online AND manage the list of other things the project needs.
And that right there is why I'm NOT worried or really that upset about these delays.
They are well communicated, explained and ultimately worth it.
Plastic over PVC? YES, Please and Thank you!
This is BY FAR the best Kickstarter I've been involved with, and probably the closest to meeting that oft cried for what "Kickstarters Should Be For" that we often get into debates about.
I don't do this a lot, but that post deserves an exalt, as it echoes my feelings on the project all too well. I'm in it with my brother, who is impatient as all hell, but like Alph, I'm okay with that as we know what's going on, we're not being insulted, belittled or ignored and we actually get to see what is going on and why all these choices are made, unlike some other projects.
This entire project looks amazing! i've always been a fan of KD models even if the subject hasn't been to my tastes the sculpts and images are always inspiring. if I had more Nerd sense and followed what KS are and how they work I probably would have jumped into this one as a starter, the models as usual are beautiful, are they going to be for a game? or more collection type sculpts?
The models are a bit of both nerdfest, things like the armor sets and monsters are either part of the core game or expansions, while stuff like the pin-ups, messengers, holiday Nico are collector items
for display, although they can be used as alternative survivors if you wish.
kingdomdeath wrote: The delays are my responsibility directly. The choice to move away from PVC and the additional time spent play testing and -tuning the overall game and its expansions were both my decision. Neither of these choices were taken lightly and a long laundry list of pro's and con's were evaluated before hand.
The opportunity that the backers presented Kingdom Death:Monster as a project is utterly breath-taking. As the project creator, I feel the best way to show my unending gratitude and respect is simply to do the absolute best I can. In all fields of the project, including but not limited to, communication, presentation, quality, business and finally fulfillment.
To me, this is what kickstarter is meant to be about. And it goes well beyond a simple "consumer to customer" relationship. The backers are special to me, they made this little dream come into reality. I just wish I had a few clones of myself running around so I could play the game full time, hang out with backers online AND manage the list of other things the project needs.
Most (all but one) KS projects I backed in 2013 have had delays, but most of them seem to go into lockdown after the funding passes, with maybe one update every few weeks and no information on why the delay is happening other than grudging "It'll be ready when it's ready!" comments. The transparency in this one makes the delays much more tolerable, because I know that progress is being made and the delays have a reason. Not to mention which, the previews and updates are great for whetting enthusiasm and keeping the project in the forefront of the minds of backers and the greater community.
The lesson from Kingdom Death, that I really hope other KS's pay attention to, is that communication is good--both for the backers and the creators. Everybody wins!
I was sticking that picture up for the scale reference more than anything. Figured nobody had seen that one yet.
Plus that link had a lot more views of the king that we haven't seen.
Y'know who we haven't seen in a long time...?
Spidicules.
That's who we haven't seen. I would love to see how those legs will be able to support it's weight, and not be super super thin.
Plus- how is that sucker going to get sprued up?
I hope to GOD Poots doesn't give us Mantic style grab bags of parts and let us attempt to figure out how some of these things get pieced together.
I hope to GOD Poots doesn't give us Mantic style grab bags of parts and let us attempt to figure out how some of these things get pieced together.
I've only seen that with restic/PVC. He's using what appears to be the same material and sprue style as Wyrd, in which case I expect they'll come on sprues.
It's Wargames Factory producing it. It should all be on sprues.
I hadn't seen that shot of the Dragon's chest before. It's so weird. He has fingers for ribs. And wouldn't having your innards exposed like that be a bad thing? Oh well, all I know is, I don't have to paint that thing. Tamburlaine does.
We haven't seen any progress updates on Slenderman or that tree, either.
Barzam wrote: It's Wargames Factory producing it. It should all be on sprues.
I hadn't seen that shot of the Dragon's chest before. It's so weird. He has fingers for ribs. And wouldn't having your innards exposed like that be a bad thing? Oh well, all I know is, I don't have to paint that thing. Tamburlaine does.
We haven't seen any progress updates on Slenderman or that tree, either.
I'm not sure what is left for Slenderman past tooling (from Update #74);
So which model will be the most brittle- slender or the spider?
Something's been nagging me too. I could have sworn in the original description of Spidicules, I swear it had mentioned something about it being able to spawn a bunch of babies.
This got me wondering if we'll see spider babies on a sprue included as a freebie at some point. How else will we be able to exterminate them all?
Long time lurker on Dakka and avid Kingdom Death fan here. But unfortunately missed the KS boat completely. Still kicking myself over that till this day...
Just wondering if any backers has any KD:M resin figures that they are willing to sell? Like maybe you ordered extras or don't mind selling them for a good price? I'm happy to consider any price quotes.
Also looking for the following older miniatures, namely:
Forge God
Grom
Sunstalker infant
Butcher
White Lion
Survivor - male
Geekinthehouse, I think a lot of people are kicking themselves about not kickstarting this, myself included!
I've managed to get hold of a few of the miniatures second hand, and they are fantastic, some of the most characterful sculpts I've seen in some time. Hopefully though, the move to plastic means that a larger production run will be possible (he says optimistically)?
It's not unfeasible to think that Monster will enter regular/semi-regular production at some point down the line (albeit at a considerably higher price point). So even though you may have missed out now, I wouldn't give up hope just yet.
Also, keep in mind that Monster is just the first boxed game in what is intended to be a much larger universe (as it stands, Monster looks to be about the more normal individuals in the world of Kingdom Death, while subsequent titles will focus on more heroic characters, represented as the figures KD sells individually, like the Twilight Knight). So you can always hope to jump on the next thing they pump out.
It's been hard enough trying to track down the older resin scuplts. But I'm worried that the new KD:M resins released via kickstarter will be even harder to get.
All the new pinups like the lantern festival girl, sunstalker dancer etc are all gorgeous. If only someone had ordered extras in their pledge and is willing to sell me some.. One can pray.. Please please please let there be someone who would sell me some!
But the popularity of KD may also make collecting their products more difficult. Demand will be high, and Adam may be too busy first fulfilling KS demands and then starting on new content to keep older products restocked adequately for die-hard fans like us.
1) There will be another round of pledge surveys before shipping, so if you can make arrangements with a pledger local to you, you can order these extras through them.
2) If the standard models are now all in hard plastic, it wouldn't make very good business sense to not have ordered in bulk. If you're paying for the extremely expensive tooling in order to get sprues that cost pennies to make, you're going to order well above the amount required for the Kickstarter. Companies like Mantic are still selling hard plastic runs from 4-5 years ago.
I suspect the biggest barrier would simply come from distribution - either Adam only sells this popular boardgame direct from his website, or he distributes to US retailers that agree not to sell for less than RRP. Either way, not brilliant news for those outside the US! Could be a situation similar to Reaper.
Bioptic wrote: 1) There will be another round of pledge surveys before shipping, so if you can make arrangements with a pledger local to you, you can order these extras through them.
Adam has already said the resins won't be available when the PM opens again only the plastics as the quantity of resin miniatures has been set and ordered and they don't have time to do more given they are time consuming to cast.
Ah, a shame then! I know the reasons, but it's a pity that so many resin miniatures have to be limited editions in the first place. Still, the plastic versions look great and are reasonably priced - and I admit that it's not often that you even get hard plastic alternatives to resin.
Just curious, does anyone know if they will ever release resin figures for their expansion models? Like the dragon King, Sunstalker, spiducules etc? I know the pinups all have resin versions, and even the Phoenix, but I haven't heard any word on the expansions. .
Sirius42 wrote: It's good to know that he's allowing further additions to pledges, I can finally afford to add the expansions I had to say no to initially.
My thoughts exactly. Now to save my tax refund for when this reopens...
Sirius42 wrote: It's good to know that he's allowing further additions to pledges, I can finally afford to add the expansions I had to say no to initially.
My thoughts exactly. Now to save my tax refund for when this reopens...
Either you're not getting a lot back, or you're planning on spending too much!
Sirius42 wrote: It's good to know that he's allowing further additions to pledges, I can finally afford to add the expansions I had to say no to initially.
My thoughts exactly. Now to save my tax refund for when this reopens...
Either you're not getting a lot back, or you're planning on spending too much!
I'd pondered doing the same, but then when I reviewed what I got I'm not seeing where I could have added a whole lot more... About the only thing I'm seeing is more of the basic armor kits that we're already getting 8 models worth of, and I think that may be overkill with 20 extra of both the Phoenix and Dragon armors coming my way.
BrookM wrote: We decided to go all in based on the concept art he was showing off at the time. Not regretting it one bit!
Same here!
It was a bit of a gamble at the time, and remains the most I've ever spent on a single KS campaign, but yeah, it is all working out just fine now!
Hell yeah, it was a big risk at the time, but as more and more info, previews and comments from Adam came in over the last months, I felt more than justified in plonking down a lot of dosh for this one.
Sirius42 wrote: It's good to know that he's allowing further additions to pledges, I can finally afford to add the expansions I had to say no to initially.
I'm not sure if it'll be possible, but I initially just bought a bunch of cool models, and I'm seriously considering changing them for the actual game plus an expansion or too.
Sirius42 wrote: It's good to know that he's allowing further additions to pledges, I can finally afford to add the expansions I had to say no to initially.
I'm not sure if it'll be possible, but I initially just bought a bunch of cool models, and I'm seriously considering changing them for the actual game plus an expansion or too.
I'd imagine that you might get away with it if those cool models were plastic, less so if resin, but you never know, pure speculation based on the face that they said the resin numbers were finalised.
I think Adam's been fairly upfront about most things - I don't think there's been a hint of moving off his end of Q2 date to all the way to Oct-Dec '14!
Creator Kingdom Death 1 day ago
