I got rid of a few painted plastic pinups to pay for Pinups of Death II. Last time I painted a plastic pinup from the first KS was quite a few years ago, so I'd like to think I improved.
Tossed some GW stuff on eBay that sold in a few minutes which let me get a plastic showdown board too.
Mark my words, that board will not be that cheap when they finally get around to designing it.... or it'll just flat out be canceled (but I doubt that'll be the case).
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I got rid of a few painted plastic pinups to pay for Pinups of Death II. Last time I painted a plastic pinup from the first KS was quite a few years ago, so I'd like to think I improved.
Tossed some GW stuff on eBay that sold in a few minutes which let me get a plastic showdown board too.
Mark my words, that board will not be that cheap when they finally get around to designing it.... or it'll just flat out be canceled (but I doubt that'll be the case).
I wanted the board, but this year was me paying dearly for my earlier decision not to get the Gamblers Chest or Campaigns of Death, so next year will probably be me paying dearly for not getting the board.
Has the tree been updated then? We have it, but it's still in its box as it has no tabletop use as far as I can remember, it being more an in between game encounter / event.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I ordered Percival & Alison via KD site (shop.kingdomdeath.com) for BF 2018 stuff
I received them in the mail today!
The white box packaging is far nicer than the simple ziploc bag that contained my Green Knight expansion, or the White Speaker and Twilight Knight from the 1st KS.
I simply can't see board functioning with those terrain tiles, since we can be sure those won't get released with board, and later on will just look bad on plqstic board, even though they look just fine on this board.
Also, can't see being too good to move bases on those parts of the board that are not same height.
In my mind I'm envisioning it like a Final Fantasy Tactics style board with raised parts, but maybe with a small recessed section to hold terrain tiles.
Or it gets 3d terrain pieces of some sort. I wouldn't put it past him.
Mysterio wrote: I'd love to see some 3D terrain pieces for that Black Knight showdown - like he's been showing and...previewing?
Well the statues at least might get made
The Black Knight Expansion WILL NOT come with model versions of its tiles! Instead there will be artwork on token board. But we are thinking about including the Elastomer Statues as an upgrade from their flat token incarnation!
Also speculation this is a Vision Owl which are associated with the Ringtail Swamp
The subterranean settlements sprawling beneath the swamp are filled with a melodious racket. Armed with drills and spades, the Ringtail Survivors travel using a system of pullies, chimes, and gongs to confuse the Vision Owls that stalk the swamp’s surface. Overground, the Vision Owls circle, waiting for the distinctive hue of people on the move disguised in the riot of color swirling below.
Far too much work seems to have gone into building those boards. Perhaps if it doesn't end up as part of the plastic showdown board, it could end up being its own separate release.
I'm sure plenty of people would clamor at a the chance to get a plastic ping pong pinball table to hurl their survivors around if given an opportunity.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I got rid of a few painted plastic pinups to pay for Pinups of Death II. Last time I painted a plastic pinup from the first KS was quite a few years ago, so I'd like to think I improved.
If the rework will be like the redone White Lion vs your blue-haired lion, I think the results will be fantastic!
StarFyre wrote: so will there be a plastic run for the SKeleton Boss? i want that but cant do the $50 USD right now.
Likely only if it actually turns into an in-game baddie rather than just a bit of lore with a cool model. Having followed the game a lot, my best bet is that you'll be stuck with resin: almost all undead-style models have had no game content.
I like Death High, and hope to see some long-haired, long-skirted girls. Also dudes. And swim team.
StarFyre wrote: so will there be a plastic run for the SKeleton Boss?
It's more of a generic fantasy boss, so I think it waits until ALL of the generic fantasy heroes get done up in plastic for Labyrinth or whatever that happens to be.
I got a potion maker last night. I debated the others but budget wise I didn't like anything else but the Skeleton guy and I think I'll wait to see if there is a Plastic version of him.
I've gotten all the death high stuff up till now but just didn't see any reason to get these.
Well to be honest I bought a few things from the UK warehouse and they got shipped directly from China (with the UK store address on the package) so it hurt a bit....
Welcome to Death High
Death High - Aya
Death High - Enforcer
Death High - Preacher (male)
Death High - Miko
Death High - Preacher (female)
Death High - Ringtail Vixen
Death High - Twilight Knight (female)
Death High - White Speaker
Kickstarter 1.5
Thank you everyone for your continued patience. Please look forward to a large update in August. Until then, it's best for us to remain in silent crunch mode, with our cards (and surprises) held tightly to our chests! The team greatly appreciates your understanding and trust that we are dedicated to creating the best possible content for Monster. Thank you again.
I barely could get rid of my armor kits for 'decent' price. IF you get 20$ for kit you might consider yourself lucky. tbh. once I saw how minis from GC will look, those older armor kits just look bad, more because poses are so rigid and not rly natural.
You can do some pretty cool things with a knife and some greenstuff, but yeah, those models and their doll joints/straight torsos just aren't very impressive multipose kits, and it doesn't help that they don't have instructions/some of the parts are mislabeled.
Yeah, KD is really lame about their updates. I think everyone except Adam would be way happier with 2-3x as many updates with proportionally less content per.
I'd be happier with my stuff, actually, but I understand what I was getting into, and now just accept that half my pledge is literally still years and years way. :-p
Well, Wave 3 was initially scheduled for "Spring 2018" and Wave 4 was "Spring 2019" with the I'm Not Sure What Was Actually In It Wave 5 given a "Winter 2020" estimate.
I vaguely remember Adam telling us revised estimates from that, and maybe we've already missed those too?
Maybe everything will be "Winter 2020" now?
Anyway, I don't think we're years and years away from delivery - but it certainly wouldn't be shocking for everything to be about a year away still!
I'm still really surprised that Poots gets away with such poor communication, I'm pretty sure any other big Kickstarter would be in serious trouble after almost a year of radio silence.
Maybe if the Gencon (or more likely Black Friday) update offers no real progress, the majority of backers might start getting annoyed, but I still expect most people to chalk it up to "Poots being Poots" and "It'll be worth the wait whenever we get it".
I mean, I'm still really excited to see what's revealed at Gencon, even though any information will probably be coming from 3rd party sources.
Well, they all knew what they were getting into if they paid any attention to the first kickstarter. I'm sure we're still years out from final delivery, and I'm sure some of the things will never deliver.
aku-chan wrote: I'm still really surprised that Poots gets away with such poor communication, I'm pretty sure any other big Kickstarter would be in serious trouble after almost a year of radio silence.
A few interrelated bits about fan relationship to his product:
-KD was built on a model of scarcity and sporadic releases and fans starved for said releases; this now includes rules and info on the game
-KD has a cult following
-I imagine that he's actually burning more goodwill than it looks like: there is a growing vocal minority that is dissatisfied, and I feel like many fans have tempered their enthusiasm. Now, I don't know if this is because nothing playable is getting released, but I know that I've still got unplayed expansions and, while I'm starting to get back into things, I'm not champing at the bit.
Personally, I think that 1st edition was fantastic for a 1st edition, but I think a lot of problems are starting to be revealed with 1.5: there are a lot of strange missteps regarding rules, QC, and player goodwill that I think Adam's made, where he could have learned from 1st but doesn't seem to have.
I think between no editorial oversight and a cult fanbase, he's been able to operate without building some important skillsets, and I'm really curious what's going to happen once the second wave of expansions drop, and we see his new design space/see how they've developed the world. I suspect gaming fatigue will set in with a lot of players, by the time any 3rd KS drops.
During the first KS at least while updates were infrequent they were genrally large, comprehensive and above all showed the backers would be getting far more that they'd thought they would be getting
the game got bigger, the expansions got bigger, more content, more art, multipart, multipose minis instead of the planned PVC
so while it was hard to wait every time you did your reward got better (and there hadn't been nearly as many well publicised KS disasters to 'worry' the nervous so the expectation was you'd get the game even if it was a long way off)
this time round there's more expectation, far more speculators who bought it to resell and are coming to realise they may have got it wrong (yes they'll be able to sell it on but with the time it takes to come out it may be a net loss), far more KS failures to make the worriers (and those who backed but couldn't really afford to) nervous with delays, and far more KS backers generally who think they should be able to get refunds at any time which you just didn't see back when KN: Monster launched, now if you check the comments of a completed KS you see a steady stream of 'how do I get a refund',
but a lot less chance of us getting a lot extra partly because the new content was imagined as larger and more expensive from the start, and partly because Adam should have a better handle on what stuff costs & how to get it made.
I also think the narrative sculpts will look cooler than the armour kit stuff its not going to be as impressive to see on the sprue (and even though most people probably didn't use half the bits having them made at least the mini collector subset of the backers happy just because they existed)
so expect to see a lot more griping this time round, wether that will influence Adam I suspect not
If anyone's interested, $2,000.00 and you can have both the last KS bundle, and the next one. I'm giving a Warning Order heads up here for anyone who is interested in this one, before I list it in the Swap and Sell forum. This would be a great bundle buy for a club, or store.
My stuff ongoing is from Tier 3 on, I received a black box in the beginning, but nothing else since. I have my total 1st KS batch on hand, and honestly I have to part ways with this game system. I have a few game systems I have to cut slingload on, so this is the first of many.
I'll take inquires, but I want to sell this whole lot, then just have to send you the rest of the stuff I got- which is pretty substantial. Watch the Swap and sell within the next week or so for details...
The 2,000 will net you enough to keep you occupied until the KS2 lot comes in... At least a year or so.
1) What’s the current estimate for Wave 3 shipping.
It’s still currently TBA. My hope was to have printed and on boats around now, but I will get into more details in a larger update that I’ll be posting soon. (Either from the Gencon Floor, or right before we leave for the show).
2) What’s the cause of the delay, has it impacted Wave 4 too?
I will address this in the update.
3) When are the wanderers, promo and crossover content going to ship?
Thats planned to ship with wave 4. However, I am looking into ways to break some of that content so we can deliver relevant bits of content sooner.
4) Are the Wave 4 expansion going to include AKDM rules?
Where and when appropriate yes. AKDM explores a settlement and story of a particular group of cognitively advanced survivors.
5) What is aKDM?
AKDM is the name of the game content that comes within the Gamblers Chest. It has evolved a lot in the past year and the upcoming update will shed a lot of light on it!
6) When is the plastic board shipping? Why was it delayed?
It’s tied up with Wave 4 content and will ship with them.
7) How far along are expansions?
Some are very close to print, others (mainly Abysaal Woods content) only have there miniatures finished and outline. They have yet to see focus testing or rigorous development.
8) Is the gambler’s chest’s content different from the initial kickstarter?
Yes. Both the miniatures and the game content has been expanded upon significantly.
9) What’s the current estimation of each expansion’s content?
That’s too hard to answer quickly. Because our sculpting team has expanded along with our ability to engineer models for plastic production. I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw more miniatures in some of the expansions.
10) What kind of changes can we expect from the pitches 3 years ago?
For the most part things are pretty on point. There has been a lot of overall cleaning up and smoothing over of the bigger systemic changes to act as a base for new content for years to come. The biggest changes so far have been to AKDM and Campaigns of Death which have increased in scope and content.
11) When is the card pack happening ? what’s in it?
I’ll address this in the update. It’s going to be split into two, with the first part including a small core rules update.
12) Is CoD still containing rules on how to make your own homebrew campaigns ?
Of course!
Kingdom DeathCreator
about 22 hours ago
Yes. Update is currently being word on and will go up before or during the show. If for some reason that plan changes, I will update with whatever is ready at that time and provide a new date for the update.
Kingdom DeathCreator
about 22 hours ago
.... Depending on how long it takes to get everything together I might break it into two updates. One regarding wave 3 and another regarding wave 4. The plan is to tackle it all at once, which gives me roughly a week to get it all together. If I do break it up, the wave 4 update will happen in August after gencon.
Kingdom DeathCreator
about 22 hours ago
My vow. I will not cancel any of the content promised this campaign.
1) What’s the current estimate for Wave 3 shipping.
It’s still currently TBA. My hope was to have printed and on boats around now, but I will get into more details in a larger update that I’ll be posting soon. (Either from the Gencon Floor, or right before we leave for the show).
2) What’s the cause of the delay, has it impacted Wave 4 too?
I will address this in the update.
3) When are the wanderers, promo and crossover content going to ship?
Thats planned to ship with wave 4. However, I am looking into ways to break some of that content so we can deliver relevant bits of content sooner.
4) Are the Wave 4 expansion going to include AKDM rules?
Where and when appropriate yes. AKDM explores a settlement and story of a particular group of cognitively advanced survivors.
5) What is aKDM?
AKDM is the name of the game content that comes within the Gamblers Chest. It has evolved a lot in the past year and the upcoming update will shed a lot of light on it!
6) When is the plastic board shipping? Why was it delayed?
It’s tied up with Wave 4 content and will ship with them.
7) How far along are expansions?
Some are very close to print, others (mainly Abysaal Woods content) only have there miniatures finished and outline. They have yet to see focus testing or rigorous development.
8) Is the gambler’s chest’s content different from the initial kickstarter?
Yes. Both the miniatures and the game content has been expanded upon significantly.
9) What’s the current estimation of each expansion’s content?
That’s too hard to answer quickly. Because our sculpting team has expanded along with our ability to engineer models for plastic production. I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw more miniatures in some of the expansions.
10) What kind of changes can we expect from the pitches 3 years ago?
For the most part things are pretty on point. There has been a lot of overall cleaning up and smoothing over of the bigger systemic changes to act as a base for new content for years to come. The biggest changes so far have been to AKDM and Campaigns of Death which have increased in scope and content.
11) When is the card pack happening ? what’s in it?
I’ll address this in the update. It’s going to be split into two, with the first part including a small core rules update.
12) Is CoD still containing rules on how to make your own homebrew campaigns ?
Of course!
Kingdom DeathCreator
about 22 hours ago
Yes. Update is currently being word on and will go up before or during the show. If for some reason that plan changes, I will update with whatever is ready at that time and provide a new date for the update.
Kingdom DeathCreator
about 22 hours ago
.... Depending on how long it takes to get everything together I might break it into two updates. One regarding wave 3 and another regarding wave 4. The plan is to tackle it all at once, which gives me roughly a week to get it all together. If I do break it up, the wave 4 update will happen in August after gencon.
Kingdom DeathCreator
about 22 hours ago
My vow. I will not cancel any of the content promised this campaign.
Mymearan wrote: Adam has said on Twitter he won't let anyone else write updates and he won't do small updates. He doesn't care if they only come once every 6 months.
Precisely why I cancelled my backing. Once I realized what a money pit this has become, I backed out fast. It's unfortunate, fun game and the concept is truly unique, but the handling has been abysmal lately.
I still have faith that this will be eventually delivered and of high quality. I don't understand why people are so impatient with some kickstarters while they're willibg to back the Play-Doh Sedition Wars CMON spitballed games ad nauseum.
Having been involved in the later (post-initial release) development for SW, I can't argue: time pressures certainly hurt that game, but it really was a different beast than contemporary kickstarters: that style of game/KS project was still very new, and it broke records that are now relatively common IIRC; also both fans and creators weren't really used to the material. (To be clear, I'm not excusing the flaws in the game, but do think it became something pretty good; just too far after people were pissed off.)
RE: KD, I have no doubt that it will have decent to great models, technically well-executed and probably lacking instruction. The illustrations will probably run the same gamut of nicely refined digital painting down to concept sketches with filters slapped on them. The content will probably be flavorful and reasonably imaginative, with a crapshoot on proofing quality.
I think that KD really, really needs some sort of managing editor. There are expansions like the Dragon King, which have solid rules, unusual fights, and a ton of new ideas and developments that build on core rules in not groudbreaking, but certainly well-executed designs, with some pretty snazzy models that are coherent. And then there are expansions like the tree, where the art is pretty much slapped together, there's literally no way to play the fight, RAW (and the fix takes digging around in the game content for a little while), there's virtually nothing creating a narrative once you do correct the rules, the model is a different detail resolution than everything else, and it's the first tree that I've ever needed to heavily convert to re-pose, because the original is so flat.
Absolutionis wrote: I still have faith that this will be eventually delivered and of high quality. I don't understand why people are so impatient with some kickstarters while they're willibg to back the Play-Doh Sedition Wars CMON spitballed games ad nauseum.
Maybe don't promise if you can't deliver? Or at least explain why you are behind schedule. Does this person/company explain why he doesn't keep his promises for not being on time? If then, yeah you are correct, but if not, then yeah he should be sticking to the schedule promised, or not promise what he has no intent on fulfilling.
Absolutionis wrote: I don't understand why people are so impatient with some kickstarters while they're willibg to back the Play-Doh Sedition Wars CMON spitballed games ad nauseum.
Or maybe these are different people, which explains why they behave differently?
Wave 3 delayed by a year, Gamblers expansion continues to grow, the King returns
New stuff
The Crimson Crocodile
Atnas the child eater
Smog Stalkers
God Hand
Ancient Butcher
Dung Beetle Baron
Verdant Lord
Infant Sun Stalker
Vocal Spidicules
3 extra Pin Ups
Titan Bee wave 4
Spiral Knight
The King returns with the Gamblers expansion
Was totally expecting another delay, so I'm not too peeved this year (Although I am wondering how much longer we'll have to wait while Poots continues his quest for perfection).
I do love those new minis we're getting, particularly the Crocodile and the Prawn People. So glad I went for an all-in pledge, even though I couldn't really afford it at the time.
Those all in pledges just get crazier and crazier. There's still tons of content I'm sure we aren't even aware of!
I wish the pinups would break off and become their own release. They don't require too much extra time do they? Unless they end up including gaming content as well.
If they shipped pinups earlier they could start stocking them in the shop as well. Someone needs to plant that thought in Poots head at GenCon, inception- style.
Very glad I didn't pledge for very much in this campaign. Still not happy about what will probably end up being multiple years of delay on the couple of expansions I did want.
I don't feel bad, per-se, knowing ultimately his models do live up to the hype, and the game, warts and all, will be really great... but there's just something about knowing I threw much a year's hobby budget at something that is going to come... but years delayed.
Not to put stuff in Adam's brain before I get my loot or die of old age, but I really would love to see a proper KDM 2.0 with new minis and possibly a different mix of monsters and narrative sculpts over the problematic armour kits. Then all the expansions would be different campaigns rather than monster by monster expansions. Well that or the dungeon crawl game that I could play and complete in an evening.
Or, as 'exact' as any deadline can ever be in Kingdom Death Land.
Wave 3 in 2020 'sometime' then?
With Wave 4 now pushed out into 2021 - or beyond.
When did this campaign end?
And when was everything supposed to have shipped out, original estimates?
I'm too annoyed - and possibly upset - to go dig around and find out...
The campaign ended in January 2017. Originally Wave 3 was due 2018, but it was delayed last year until late this year, and delayed this year until late next year. Wave 4 will be at least 2021, yeah.
Some things in the update that haven't been mentioned yet.
Wave 3 has started tooling. Poots helped buy a more advanced CnC machine for the factory to be able to more detailed and complex molds. I suspect this was part of the cause of the delay. I know the gambler was having trouble getting molded in a way that worked for almost a year. Now it's done, and you can see the sprues, via the new machine.
There are at least 2 more updates this year. one on the random encounters and then one about wave 4 progress.
His resin caster is retiring (something he's mentioned before as a possibility) but has decided to teach Poots and Co how to cast in their style so KD resin will be moving in house.
Yeah... I find myself wishing he'd actually delivered what he said he would when he said he would, instead of more stuff way later.
Like, new toys for the same price is nice, but the dude needs an editor to tell him "no, finish this stuff on time and get it right, don't get it mostly done and move on to something shinier."
Hypothetical (and never to seen in reality) Kingdom Death Editor/Taskmaster could also tell him "...and all that other stuff you want to do you can still do, later, and actually charge people for it too!"
No word yet but they normally go on sale on the online store a week or 2 after and being HiPs quantity shouldn't be an issue as they'd need to do a minimum run anyway.
I am intrigued by the Gigalion. We saw a fuzzy image of the model a while ago but have no info on it. Can anyone who's at the show get some info on how it works into a campaign and if it will be a general release or not?
Slayer, some pics somewhere: it's a one-shot fight with 4 pre-set survivors, that gives you access to souped up lion gear (IIRC knife, cape, arrow, katar), that looks like it's basically a variant WL legendary since it only comes with a few monster cards.
No knowledge about specific incorporation or release.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Slayer, some pics somewhere: it's a one-shot fight with 4 pre-set survivors, that gives you access to souped up lion gear (IIRC knife, cape, arrow, katar), that looks like it's basically a variant WL legendary since it only comes with a few monster cards.
No knowledge about specific incorporation or release.
Thanks for the info. I'm hoping it's available at some point down the line, but if it's a one-shot and not a quarry then it's lower priority for me.
Yeah, it falls in the same camp as promos where it's really a lot less content for the cash than regular expansions. While I'm starved for new content, in the long run I'd rather just wait at this point and be satisfied with my bloated GC/CoD content than pay $75 more into this game for what amounts to a minor expansion.
Like, it's a good deal compared to regular promos, but it's still not a bargain, and I'm a bit salty that he's done this while we're waiting for content we already paid for.
Bob, yeah, the GC and campaigns of death ballooned pretty insanely, with a ton of new plastic. Both have multiple 100m-based monsters added. I really don't know what he's doing, other than indulging his vision at the cost of practicality. I have no idea what his finances are, but his profits must be taking a huge hit, for the amount of full sprues he's adding.
edit: my guess is that his print runs are much larger than he expected, and he's using the extra leeway from cheaper manufacturing costs vs. the margins he'd decided were comfortable and what he accounted for, to do whatever he wants instead of soaking up the income.
He's got like a million running these projects. He's fine. The biggest problem with this guy is he has so many irons in the fire that he loses his stuff when some of this stuff doesn't work out. THIS is like a project from hell, and I commend him on his plans being so exacting, but then he keeps adding more and more, then something else comes up... 2 or 3 years, now? The game itself was ok, but this amount of delay is just painful...
I think there is an exces of over 100+ models involved in this, along with the additional 60 plus expansions...
On one hand it's Poots being Poots and when I plunked money down for one of the Gambler pledges I figured it would be 6 years before I got all my stuff and I'd get more then what was funded in the KSer.
On the other hand I agree with him needing a project manager or maybe restricting these KSer projects to being half the size they end up being during funding so they come in at a reasonable time. It probably really sucks for those that just bought a few things and have to wait all the extra time without getting the extras that the rest of us get.
Huron black heart wrote: Fascinating line of models, I probably would have backed this had I seen it. Looking at the production nightmare I'm glad I didn't.
Well, you can always buy it later for 2-3x the price when it comes out.
Ya, I don't think it's fare to call production a nightmare as it's in development where most of the delays are. Once Poots has something they way he wants production goes rather smoothly. I wouldn't really say development is a nightmare either -- it's just being run by a perfectionist with lots of money so he can delay and add things as he feels.
I really don't understand the perfectionism claims people make. The rules have a ton of typographical and mechanical errors, some of which create contradictions on the same page or internally make things non-functional or seem to omit major rules; there are often huge internal balance issues; he doesn't even use an editor; these weren't corrected for the expansion reprints.
He has a very specific vision, but I would not at all call the man a perfectionist.
not when a time and/or budget deadline is hit which would be the case in most other businesses where they'd either bodge it to a 'close enough' conclusion (or occasionally cancel it)
Huron black heart wrote: Fascinating line of models, I probably would have backed this had I seen it. Looking at the production nightmare I'm glad I didn't.
If this was the first KDKS I might see it as a nightmare, but having had the experience the first time round I suspect many backers (and most of the comments on KS and FB are supportive) went into it with eyes open knowing a) deadlines would be missed and b) the value received would be far in excess of the price for getting in early.
Plus you have to be a pretty dedicated player to have really burned through all the content that already exists, I know I haven't even got close.
I am quite pleased about how everything turned out and despite a few assets not being 100% final, this is still a great time to share. I'll get right to it!
Development The development of the Encounter system was very long winded. I handed my original notes off to one of our designers and they diligently crafted version after version of the experience. After seven versions and a lot of great feedback from our play test table, we determined a few critical notes.
Flavor wise, it felt like fighting tribal survivors.
It needed to be non-lethal so that it would’t mess up the hunt
.
It was boring if it took too long.
We often design in the office by passing work along, with the final stop being myself or Anna. Having participated in many of the play test sessions and being the director over the major iterations that were created, I took it up to finish the system.
To me it felt very… expected, bone eaters with clubs going “smash”. And the system as it was, was fair to players and snappy at the cost of it being too easy.
To be honest, I didn’t like it.
Building on all of our hard work and feedback, I decided to address the critical notes with the following:
Deep dive reimagining the Bone Eaters and how their success with superior physical forms would change how they develop and hunt.
Embrace lethality!
Focus the design on the mass murder simulation that group combat truly is, adding highlights for the players to learn about the encounter monster via direct experience.
Encounter System V9 The Encounter system is a battle that takes place during the hunt event. The survivors have been found or stumbled across something that wants them dead! Instead of resolving the event with a table, the encounter system allows me to creatively explore the moment in greater detail and share more Kingdom Death. Mostly death, with all of you!
The current version of the Encounter system and the one that will most likely be part of the Gambler’s Chest is it’s ninth incarnation. It’s the best version so far and it’s got me pretty jazzed about reproaching the designs of the other encounter monsters promised this campaign! (Trapdoor Men, Doodlies, etc)
The Vitals
Encounter monsters are not the intended target the survivors have formed a death pact to hunt down. Nor do they show up at the settlements front door (or pile of corpses they use for a door). Instead, encounter monsters find the survivors during the hunt phase. It was important for us to create assets that supported this distinction.
It's also the first time we've had artwork that has so many "monsters" in it at once!
Organization
The organization of the encounter system is paramount. I wanted to ensure that it is an additive experience to the hunt phase. The organization, in this case, influenced the overall design. So much so, that I wanted to separate some of those assets into its own presentation here.
Bone Eater Miniatures Shall we talk about the miniatures next?
I still can't decide which faces to make final! I LOVE THEN ALL SO MUCH!
Maybe I'll just add them to the sprue and let you decide which ones to use.
At this point I am wondering how many of you have spotted a sneaky secret that made it into some of the photos.
On each of the Encounter Monster base, is a slot for a life tracking (and sometimes special status) die! I wanna make sure they are snug so when you move the model around the die wont just come tumbling out. This is such a tiny thing, but it's totally one of those, always wished for, as a kid, playing other games late into the night and early into the morning features!
Smog Stalkers We have the hard plastic for other Encounter Monster thats included in the Gambler's Chest, in hand!
Hard Plastic Atnas We also have the hard plastic Atnas in hand!!!!!!
Atnas was the hardest monster (so far!) to realize conceptually. Maybe Xmas I'll take everyone through all the versions that hit the cutting room floor and show how Nat Kay Cochran and I, took Lokmans perfect atnas face and finally turned it into concept art that could be transformed into a wonderfully unsettling sculpture.
Thank you team I wanted to thank everyone on the team for being extra supportive and really pushing in these last few months. I know its your profession and all that, but I really honestly appreciate you helping to make these ideas into reality. Maybe I am gak at letting you know in person. And hopefully by now you know I am not much for leading group meetings. BUT I CAN CERTAINLY GET ON THE INTERNET AND EMBARASS MYSELF FOR YOUR BEHALF!
So a big giant THANK YOU. I wouldn't want to work on this with anyone else.
LET'S CONTINUE THIS CRAZY CLIMB TOGETHER!!!!
Oh and Jonah, I am totally gonna add the most ridicules Bone Eater face to the set. I don't even care if I am the only one that uses it!
This guy needs to slow his roll and focus on getting the KS products out to KS contributors. It's awfully frustrating going to Gencon and being told that KS fulfillment is late by a year, and seeing all of these new models for sale.
Smellingsalts wrote: This guy needs to slow his roll and focus on getting the KS products out to KS contributors. It's awfully frustrating going to Gencon and being told that KS fulfillment is late by a year, and seeing all of these new models for sale.
Which models in the update do you see for sale? Or are you talking about the recent anniversary sale with the new survivor box?
I like 'em all. I was hoping we'd see the White Speaker return, even better in plastic! I had sold off my old resin one and always regretted it. Plastic is a better choice for me.
I really enjoyed the 10th anniversary models so I have high hopes for Octoberfest Aya. The pattern cards and gear are just icing on the cake- although I can already hear the virtual moaning and groaning of having gameplay components attached to expensive models that have lots of parts, are too cheesecake, hard to build and all that nonsense.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I like 'em all. I was hoping we'd see the White Speaker return, even better in plastic! I had sold off my old resin one and always regretted it. Plastic is a better choice for me.
I really enjoyed the 10th anniversary models so I have high hopes for Octoberfest Aya. The pattern cards and gear are just icing on the cake- although I can already hear the virtual moaning and groaning of having gameplay components attached to expensive models that have lots of parts, are too cheesecake, hard to build and all that nonsense.
If you mean Halloween White Speaker - she is indeed back, in hard plastic. Probably just wasn't listed as she isn't "new."
highlord tamburlaine wrote: ... I can already hear the virtual moaning and groaning of having gameplay components attached to expensive models that have lots of parts, are too cheesecake, hard to build and all that nonsense.
For Kindom Death?
That's like wandering into a cigar lounge and complaining about the smoke, and wanting people to take your seriously.
Gamblers chest is $325 up from $275 last year that’s probably as expensive as it will get until it hits retail at around $400
Campaigns of Death also up as well to $175 from $125
The Halloween stock has been cleared from the online store so new stuff is imminent.
Even if you've already purchased or backed this stuff, there's some interesting tidbits showing up on the preorder page.
Couple of things I noticed-
-Baron Mushroom armor artwork in the Campaigns of Death
-People of the Sun Intimacy sculpts are shown as well for the CoD -Smog Stalkers now appear to be Smog Singers, and there's craftable armor based off of them in the Gambler's Chest
-Crimson Crocodile is getting armor sculpts too
Managed to get a Forbidden Future Bundle, I've been wanting those Great Game Hunters for years.
It's a bit of a shame we didn't get the usual, crazy Black Friday Kickstarter update, but if choosing to focus on working on the Gamblers Chest instead means we might actually get it next year, then it's a price worth paying.
I was so excited for the pledge manager to re-open, I didn't think to check the web store. Oh well, will have to hope the Gigalion goes on sale again next year. I think it would be a really worthwhile expansion to have, but $75 US is too much for what it offers.
Now to decide if I'm adding anything to my pledge.
No sign of the rest of the Lantern Festival in there though so the Scribe (and the rest) might get their own release hopefully with their own rules at some point.
Nothing I don't already have (or i'm due to get) in the Black Friday sale so no need to buy anything this has been a very cheap Black Friday for me.
The Forbidden Future was tempting, but all I really wanted was a Twilight Cloak armor set. The Hunters weren't anything special, the Scribe I don't really have any strong feeling about, and the King I'll get in the GC.
I'll just have to get one eventually. At least I got one of the shirts and the new Architect.
Debating about grabbing another BF Ninja and Detective though I have both painted but I'm curious if I can do any better on them.
The Kings coin went down like a lead balloon so refunds are being issued. I'm surprised it raised $100k. I can see why backers are upset most are still owed a significant amount of stuff and already have a lot of funds tied up with no real idea of when they will get their product. I know I'm still due the guts of $800 in product. I've no problem with outside KS stuff getting made and sold to keep cash flowing but I won't be paying in advance for new stuff although I only buy plastics kits with rules now, no more resins so limited availability doesn't really affect me anymore.
Kingdom DeathCreator
about 10 hours ago
I am sorry. The King's Coins were poorly explained and there was a lot confusion and misunderstandings about them. I am going to collect them all (100k worth), melt them down and at some point in the future, mint them again in a much better way. Everyone will be refunded asap. No, we do not need the money. I honestly thought the idea would be fun. Please accept my most humble apologies.
for context from the newsletter - King's coins were available in $50 increments while available
Introducing the King's Coins!
When we return to HQ, our next sale will only accept King's Coins as a form of payment for the first 24 hours! The King's Coins are digital gift cards that can be used to make purchases on the Kingdom Death store. Your purchase of King's Coins helps support the team while we eagerly await our return to HQ. Thank you so much in advance!
We reserve the right to add a special miniature in the future which can only be purchased with The King's Coins! (Of course if we do so, we will give everyone another opportunity to purchase King's Coins).
Also KDM is no longer top of the KS tabletop games most funded list as Frosthaven just beat it's total.
Like I said in the Kickstarter comments, while I have no problem with the idea of Poots putting out his own version of giftcards to keep things ticking over. It's slightly worrying that he didn't understand (and looking at his comments, still doesn't understand) that making limited availability items even more limited wasn't a great idea.
It's also worrying that no one on Team KD figured this out either, and if they did they couldn't or wouldn't tell Poots.
Yeah, I quit collecting the resin 1st editions a few years back since by the time I got the email, they were sold out.
I have and still strongly wish he would just put up pre-orders, and cast to pre-order. Yes, he may need to make 3500 of a miniature, but that would be a pretty excellent way of gauging demand.
What I hope happens is that he keeps growing enough to make the Encore editions always available. After all, he literally owns the means of production...having a P500 (or 1000, or whatever) would really be a boon to his bottom line.
And keeping it boutique? Hell, The nature of our hobby is that pretty much everything is boutique.
I have and still strongly wish he would just put up pre-orders, and cast to pre-order. Yes, he may need to make 3500 of a miniature, but that would be a pretty excellent way of gauging demand.
What I hope happens is that he keeps growing enough to make the Encore editions always available. After all, he literally owns the means of production...having a P500 (or 1000, or whatever) would really be a boon to his bottom line.
Logistically speaking what you're asking isn't feasible unless they scale up their facilities, equipment, and personnel. Releases are in limited batches because its the only way he can ensure a steady flow of products to customers. Having to produce 3500 of one specific resin miniature means that his resin production resources are tied up until he finishes producing all 3500 of those miniatures - that means he cannot produce other miniatures or release new ones until that batch of 3500 is completed, and if people ordered multiple different minis, it means that he could not ship orders (unless he significantly upcharged for shipping) until all the resin minis in that order were fulfilled, etc. In realistic terms, this means that he could only really put one mini on sale at a time, and a new mini couldn't be produced until demand for that mini was fulfilled (or the preorder period was arbitrarily cut off to cap demand). Poots has opted to take a more sensible approach here, hes going to do limited batch runs of minis up front, and sell his available inventory until its gone, then rinse repeat, this means he can rotate availability through his products more quickly and keep a steady pace of new products in development and on sale.
The same is true of the Encores, the Eos P500 or whatever industrial printer he has may be more automated than resin casting, but its still an incredibly slow and time-intensive production method - his production rate for the encores is probably about as fast as his production rate for resins (keep in mind the resins are probably only being cast about 8 hours per day while the prints are theoretically going 24 hours a day less maintenance and downtime, etc.), the advantage is that he doesn't tie up his labor on the prints the way he does on the casts which frees them up to do other things. Printing the encores is also not a responsive thing, the minis are being batch printed - if customer x orders mini y and you don't have inventory on hand, you're printing a batch of say 40 of them at once, not just the one you need. Thats fine, but what if customer x instead orders mini a, b, c, d, f, r, t, y, and z, and the only one you have available inventory of are b, c, and t? You now need to print INDIVIDUAL batches of a, d, f, r, y, and z to meet demand - theoretically you could print the 6 minis together in one batch, but at a likely ~36-48 hours per print batch you'd fall way behind on your orders doing it this way, and the print automation and management software isn't really designed to tesselate/batch dissimilar objects together into the print volume, so your machine operator(s) now need to configure all your prints manually by hand if you tried to manage responsive production.So anyway, 36-48 hours per batch across 6 batches is 216 to 288 hours (9-12 days assuming no maintenance or downtime) of print time before you can fulfill this one customers order. 30 hours into printing this you also sell out of minis d and f, as well as minis e, g, h, and m for other customers, etc.
It simply isn't feasible unless you have multiple machines, this also doesn't address the issues with printing art/rule cards, etc. From what I understand Poots does not have that capability in house which means hes reliant on delivery from suppliers, depending on lead times you could be looking at significant delays as he runs out of printed materials.
I think he handles it better now that his team does the production vs a single guy in France. You see encores a lot more often and a larger amount of product but still the same number of numbered "1st" editions for those that care (which I don't know a single person that does but they surly exist). But there is a limit to what they can produce with the resins without maybe having his company become too large that it might not be sustainable long term.
I have a better idea... How about just finishing the project, like should be done in the first place?
It's not like it didn't make a million dollars, and more then enough to get it down in a reasonable amount of time. Been waiting for over 3 years now, and still no completion. Been a lot of Champaign dreams on a Colt 45 budget, though...
I would just like to get the kickstarter miniatures that I payed 2 grand for about 4 years ago. I swear to god if I go to Gencon and see him selling the stuff I was supposed to get in my kickstarter (again) I am going to go off. Poots, you hear that, you better not be selling stuff you owe to kickstarters!
aku-chan wrote: (and looking at his comments, still doesn't understand)
I've been thinking about this and, given how it was structured, I think that he knew exactly what he was doing and just wasn't ready for the backlash from customers with years-overdue product who are already tense because of the global situation, who find out that an announced "sale" was in fact a manipulative preorder system for undisclosed exclusive vaporware.
I get where he's coming from and thought it was a fun idea myself, but he probably should just get wave 3 wrapped at this point.
I don't mind the store updates and usually could care less about both game content and first run cards- I just want a crack at new models to build as that's what I enjoy the most.
Coins seemed like a fun way to do it but obviously a lot more planning needs to go into it before trying to tackle it again... especially with people getting more and more cranky about wave 3 and communication.
I'm still trying to figure out why the Witch of the East Star is covered in piles of underwear though. That's an... odd look. I hope the model pulls it off because the art was pretty cringy.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I'm still trying to figure out why the Witch of the East Star is covered in piles of underwear though.
I don't think you want to go there but there's an old Japanese anime trope about wearing women's panties on one's head. There's even an anime five years ago that did it, based on a light novel.
aku-chan wrote: (and looking at his comments, still doesn't understand)
I've been thinking about this and, given how it was structured, I think that he knew exactly what he was doing and just wasn't ready for the backlash from customers with years-overdue product who are already tense because of the global situation, who find out that an announced "sale" was in fact a manipulative preorder system for undisclosed exclusive vaporware.
I don't think Vaporware is an appropriate term here as that would imply that the exclusives/sale would never happen despite being talked about for years. The rest of the sentence is pretty accurate.
aku-chan wrote: (and looking at his comments, still doesn't understand)
I've been thinking about this and, given how it was structured, I think that he knew exactly what he was doing and just wasn't ready for the backlash from customers with years-overdue product who are already tense because of the global situation, who find out that an announced "sale" was in fact a manipulative preorder system for undisclosed exclusive vaporware.
I dunno, I have trouble picturing Poots as the sort of ruthless businessman that would try something like that, he seems way too flaky.
highlord tamburlaine wrote:I'm still trying to figure out why the Witch of the East Star is covered in piles of underwear though. That's an... odd look. I hope the model pulls it off because the art was pretty cringy.
*Looks*
Dang it, she was so much cooler before you pointed that out.
Feeling pretty meh about the update overall, it didn't help that we've already seen most of those minis (and that's pretty much all I care about from this nowadays), plus the whole tone of the thing (to me anyways) seemed to be 'You're getting all this extra for free, so shut up about how long it's taking.'
Also, between the suspiciously generic, un-Kingdom Death-like original Crimson Crocodile sculpt, and Poots almost "forgetting" he's releasing the Sodapop crossover figure (Something that looks like it's already garnering him a ton of goodwill), I'm just feeling massively cynical about the whole thing now.
Maybe it's time for me to just ignore the whole thing until stuff starts arriving in a few years?
Anyone remember what the estimated delivery was before this most recent delay? Early 2021 is what I was expecting anyway, I could have sworn we were told in August last year that development alone was going to take another 12-18 months, let alone production and quality control.
So that was a pleasant surprise for me, provided it comes to pass. Not overly pleased that he's umming and ahing about adding another monster to CoD, should really just save the Devilweed Slenderman for a white box like the Gigalion and apparently upcoming Nukalope.
Seeing that owl is a bit aggravating though. Between messing around with creatures for post-Kickstarter content, going to the trouble of re-opening the store in the middle of a pandemic for one miniature when he says they don't need the money, fething around with the King's Coin, and then turning around and saying that he's two months behind where he thought he'd be by this stage of the lockdown, it's getting tedious. Hard to take any sort of apology for poor time management seriously when it's unapologetically followed up by examples of what he has been poorly managing his time to work on. I get the need to be constantly working on different things, but maybe keep quiet about them until you've made tangible progress on fulfilling what people paid for?
I'm, uh, pretty cranky at the moment. The amount to which this is showing off what normally is just a given (yeah, they need to print and test the sprues that we've seen: this isn't news) really indicated to me how slowly things have moved. There was almost no new content in this bland, defensive, nearly self-pitying announcement.
But at least there'll be sacred backer time posts coming soon, yay?
Are refunds an option at all? Might as well ask for money back that was pledged for the adventure book and the Hyper Light Drifter mini, which as far as I can tell and remember hasn't been shown off or mentioned since it was added to the campaign years ago.
spiralingcadaver wrote: I'm, uh, pretty cranky at the moment. The amount to which this is showing off what normally is just a given (yeah, they need to print and test the sprues that we've seen: this isn't news) really indicated to me how slowly things have moved. There was almost no new content in this bland, defensive, nearly self-pitying announcement.
It's pretty understandable. I'm one to realize it could take quite a while for Poots to release this but useally when he has some delay there's lots of stuff to show why.
Outside of COVID, which is understandable, most of this was just defensive and not really much as too why he seams to have done very little in 6 months.
Imagine what the costs would have been if it was close to on time - only a little late? - compared to what it is going to be when it is done and actually shipping - sometime in 2022 or beyond...
I'm just glad that Poots hasn't caught the virus. Although he has a team, including his wife, a risk of KS that isn't often mentioned is that many projects are a "one man show".
The due diligence with KDM is that "it's ready when it's ready". Doesn't hurt that I only pledged for the base game and Gambler's Chest, and the base game (and in-print expansions?) have already been delivered.
Wave 4? We may actually have CoVid behind us by then...!
Nothing unexpected in that update, at least to anyone who pledged in or researched the first kickstarter they ran. Fully expect it to take another 2-3 years to finish.
Someone on Board Game Geek made a good point about wave 4 probably coming a lot faster than the wait for wave 3 has been.
Everything new is being set up with wave 3, whereas wave 4 is just more stuff that already builds on that.
The Gambler's Chest and the Campaigns are where we're first going to see all the new encounters and advanced stuff. It's building the foundation for wave 4's expansions for the most part.
Wave 4 is more about changing up the variety of how those things operate.
Not sure why the onus is being put squarely on the shoulders of backers to have seen this running incredibly late, and not on the people actually making it for not learning from the past experience to do better?
The estimated completion date for the original was 10 months, and it became 3 years. That it ended up being late is no surprise, because 10 months was just an impossibly small amount of time for a project of that size, even if things run perfectly. That it blew out to 3.6 times longer is acceptable only for the fact that it was a first time Kickstarter.
Anyone doing their research back in 2016 could fairly assume that the 3 year estimated delivery for this campaign was based on the creator now having a better understanding of practical game development. Delays are forgivable, that absolutely goes without saying, but there's a caveat attached that the delays really ought to be primarily unforeseen circumstances, and largely not self-inflicted via questionable work ethic and prioritization.
Anyone who backed this project despite expecting it to take 6-7 years is exceedingly generous with an admirable sense of lenience, but I don't believe that's the standard all backers should be held to.
Yeah, I find the caveat emptor claims really counterproductive: I think it encourages this frankly irresponsible behavior (what about doing what you said you would, polishing it, and delivering it roughly on time, instead of adding a bunch of stuff that wasn't promised?). This is hardly the first time I've seen it, but it still gets so tiring to see irresponsible game designers' egos stroked by their cult.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Someone on Board Game Geek made a good point about wave 4 probably coming a lot faster than the wait for wave 3 has been.
Everything new is being set up with wave 3, whereas wave 4 is just more stuff that already builds on that.
The Gambler's Chest and the Campaigns are where we're first going to see all the new encounters and advanced stuff. It's building the foundation for wave 4's expansions for the most part.
Wave 4 is more about changing up the variety of how those things operate.
Faster than some might expect, but perhaps not for that reason. We know that some Wave 4 expansions are already "done" (Black Knight and Screaming God both had functional demos a while ago), and I have to believe they aren't the only ones that were being worked on. But I don't think Gambler's Chest and Campaigns of Death coming first means all that much, because they were both fairly light on development initially, with CoD being just a book and Gambler's Chest being a collection of additional gameplay and extra rules that weren't enough to be a full expansion. They underwent massive scale creep since then, and if that had any effect on the Wave 4 expansions, it'd be altering the plans for those too and making them take longer. Given that they're both expansions now, being entirely optional, I can't see them being inherently linked with any Wave 4 content beyond compatibility matters, especially since they've not been declared essential for anything else the way we know some Wave 4 expansions are with each other. That back-and-forth of concurrent development is going to be nasty.
Yeah, it's entirely possible that changes cascade and affect what was previously in good shape, as just as likely as it is that it facilitates things.
Given Poots' working style, it seems far more likely that he won't be able to stop himself and will change something that was previously tagged as complete.
Does it though? managers, in general, rarely manage to do anything right and are usually unable to connect to the core of a product and deliver something the customer really wants.
Ok they may hit deadlines and deliver a dead husk as it has been shown many times in the CG industry.
To answer your question above though, yes, I think the average backer behavior does not make the project deliver faster, but I also think the average backer backed it with the expectation of a few years delay in delivery before the campaign ended.
I am not sure we encourage the delays, more we expected them and it has not, yet, passed the, internally expected, delay most of us expected.
There's a pretty big chunk of the fanbase who seem to take a weird sort of pride in Poots inability to meet the basic standards other Kickstarters are held to, batting away any criticism with a 'Poots is gonna Poots' and waffling on about how his artistic vision cannot be compromised, like he's creating some culturally significant masterpiece and not a decent boardgame with snazzy minis.
While I doubt any amount of backlash would have an impact at this point (Not only is it a bit too late, Poots also seems to be believing his own hype nowadays), had the fanbase been a bit more critical and not always trying to suck up to him, maybe he would've been less willing to spend years tinkering with things.
None of us here that backed the first KSer expected him to be on time and did use "Poots is going to be Poots" many times. I'm one of them and still fine with saying that when he actually gives, in my opinion, valid reasons for the delay that also usually benefit us with more stuff for free like most of the 2019 updates. Lots of things shown off, lots of progress, talk about throwing away the progress and what's new.
While this update had some of that it was very anemic for his past ones and makes you wonder what side projects he's working on in secret (like the videogame) as it really seams like not much has been done in 6 months outside of stuff on the factory side.
Aku-chan, yeah, summed up nicely. Also, FWIW, what seems like only an escalation of believing his own hype, as you put it, makes me pretty reluctant to approach a third KS :/
Tim the Biovore wrote: Not sure why the onus is being put squarely on the shoulders of backers to have seen this running incredibly late, and not on the people actually making it for not learning from the past experience to do better?
It's been my experience that, if a project funds, it's business as usual, with Palladium and Gamezone (and some saying Mythic and CMON) being poster children.
EDIT: fwiw, I guess you could also say that Fred Henry of Monolith changed how he was selling the Conan IP after the Beyond the Monolith KS failed. I guess CMON learned their mistake with charging higher "actual" shipping costs unannounced during their Bloodborne KS when backers failed to fund the subsequent Trudvang KS campaign after the EB's were gone (?).
aku-chan wrote: There's a pretty big chunk of the fanbase who seem to take a weird sort of pride in Poots inability to meet the basic standards other Kickstarters are held to, batting away any criticism with a 'Poots is gonna Poots' and waffling on about how his artistic vision cannot be compromised, like he's creating some culturally significant masterpiece and not a decent boardgame with snazzy minis.
If this were just another boutique miniatures KS or boardgame, I would have skipped it. While I'd play KDM ahead of other campaign dungeoncrawlers (because of the settlement), I really like Gloomhaven and don't need another campaign boardgame.
Well, we have an update from Poots regarding "Wave 3" fulfillment.
Pinup Collections 1-5 are finished and waiting to board a cargo freight to make their big trip across the ocean. I have been warned that this year is going to be the most insane year for logistics our planet has ever seen. I don't know what that means or how it might effect us yet. But consider yourselves also warned.
Work still continues on Campaigns of Death and Wave 4 stuff.
Reading through the comments, it now sounds like the plan is to split Waves 3 and 4 into more, smaller waves.
So the whole thing is still years from completion, but you'll get a bit every year or two.
I'm surprisingly okay with that.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: You left out the part where he painted a skull and cooked a stuffed pepper. If you leave that out, it comes across like Poots isn’t doing much.
Hahahaha-- yeah, I dunno what the cooking thing has been, but his, IDK, learning to cook some unimpressive one-pot dishes is really boring kickstarter "news".
I'm so tired of art asset updates, even the good ones are meh to me since who knows when they'll show up?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: You left out the part where he painted a skull and cooked a stuffed pepper. If you leave that out, it comes across like Poots isn’t doing much.
I had to check this as I didn't quite believe it. He's getting very close to doing a Jeremy of Creature Caster (in)fame...
Expect a Black Friday update soon. The pledge manager is open again and includes the Backers - Legendary Card Pack (1.6 Upgrade) for $3 (cost price) + shipping fee. Limited to 1 per account.
I now have a balance due of $15 so I assume that's the next waves shipping charge (Pin Ups and Bases). When I add the $3 card pack the balance due goes to $23 so the card shipping is a separate $5. No option yet to add more bases.
This Card pack includes:
Card Typo Fixes for 1.5 Core Game and Expansions
Minor content needed to upgrade a 1.5 Core game to 1.6
Promised content from select single release figures.
Promised content from Pinups of Death II collection.
A surprise or two!
The HiPS board has increased in price to $200 if bought for BF 2020
Isn't that because they're due to ship already, along with the Pin Ups? From what I've heard, there's not going to be a restock of the main store on Black Friday because they didn't want to use up production slots that are currently occupied by new stuff, but I'd expect the bases to be there soon-ish, depending on whether or not they went for retail stock along with backer pre-orders.
Additionally, I have the first KS with a major lot on hand, if anyone is interested.
A whole bunch of sealed add ons, and the main game, as well as the 60 buck second edition box.
anyone interested, shoot me a PM, and we can talk off the side.
Otherwise it's going on E Bay for a sale for the Holidays.
Just went to the pledge manager and noticed what an ungodly amount of money I spent on this. I'm not quite ready to eBay it off, but I haven't really given KD much thought in the past couple years.
It's a solid game, but I'm pretty happy that I didn't break the bank on the second KS. (I might get the Silver City expansion, but otherwise I'm feeling pretty set.) The years and years of downtime with nothing new but minor updates (balance and a good boss but one you can play after 40 hours if going quickly) and overpriced expansions had really wrecked my group's momentum even before Covid stuff.
Their Black Friday sale is live. There are even some things that aren't already sold out. Stocks may be updated periodically over the weekend so check back periodically.
Honestly kinda jealous of all the people in the Kickstarter comments who are super excited over the update, didn't do a thing for me.
Gameplay-wise, it looks like the bookkeeping is going to get worse, and I already struggled with it (I get that this is a me problem and not a game problem though).
And mini-wise, the new stuff still looks good, but the narrative sculpts that have been sitting around awhile are starting to look a bit meh (although that could just be down to how many times they've been shown over the years).
The art is really nice though, I particularly like the girl sticking her head together, so that's something!
Despite all this, I still ordered an Echoes of Death 3 set (and the 1.6 card set) like the addicted fool that I am.
regarding the "narrative" minis I do see where there could be some fatigue as they have been done for years right? At least many of them. I personally really really like them though there are a few that I am borderline on - like those that do not cater to actually being used in-game/in battle. Not too many of those - the father/son one and the axe family. Axe family with a little modification could become three minis for use in battle though
aku-chan wrote: And mini-wise, the new stuff still looks good, but the narrative sculpts that have been sitting around awhile are starting to look a bit meh
IIRC, they GC Narrative Sculpts were shown 2 year ago, painted a year ago. I still love them. Sure, it'd have been nice if they had weapon options like the new stuff will be getting, but they are worlds better than the multipart Armor Kits. I'm excited to see whether Wave 4 continues to have models with swappable weapons. It's really the best of both worlds.
aku-chan wrote: And mini-wise, the new stuff still looks good, but the narrative sculpts that have been sitting around awhile are starting to look a bit meh
IIRC, they GC Narrative Sculpts were shown 2 year ago, painted a year ago. I still love them. Sure, it'd have been nice if they had weapon options like the new stuff will be getting, but they are worlds better than the multipart Armor Kits. I'm excited to see whether Wave 4 continues to have models with swappable weapons. It's really the best of both worlds.
That's all it's been? It feels like we've been looking at the same pictures of those guys forever.
The new armour sets are cool (I've already decided my Slender/Flower guy is getting the giant scissors), and I will undoubtedly be excited when I finally get my grubby mitts on this stuff, but it seems like it's been years since we got an update that wasn't mostly full of stuff from previous updates.
Well, yeah, it'll be IIRC more than half a decade, by the time the GC hits, since the last major content of the first expansion set (unless you count a patch and a new boss). Showing off incremental progress on expansion sculpts, cards with errors, and the occasional stuffed pepper does sure make it drag.
aku-chan wrote: And mini-wise, the new stuff still looks good, but the narrative sculpts that have been sitting around awhile are starting to look a bit meh
IIRC, they GC Narrative Sculpts were shown 2 year ago, painted a year ago. I still love them. Sure, it'd have been nice if they had weapon options like the new stuff will be getting, but they are worlds better than the multipart Armor Kits. I'm excited to see whether Wave 4 continues to have models with swappable weapons. It's really the best of both worlds.
That's all it's been? It feels like we've been looking at the same pictures of those guys forever.
The new armour sets are cool (I've already decided my Slender/Flower guy is getting the giant scissors), and I will undoubtedly be excited when I finally get my grubby mitts on this stuff, but it seems like it's been years since we got an update that wasn't mostly full of stuff from previous updates.
Well, that's kinda because Adam's always been hot to show off the toys, while the hard stuff of making and playtesting a game game isn't inherently visual.
It is also rather nice to finally see exactly what the GC is going to be.
Sasori wrote: Wish the portal would include an option for a refund, as at this point I'd rather just have my money back than waiting another 3 years for it.
I actually emailed the KD: M team (support@kingdomdeath.com ) just the other day and asked if I could get my pledge refunded. (Not sore about the delays really, just in the intervening years have fallen out of the hobby - and don't want to deal with ebaying it all or whatnot). They told me they will refund my pledge - minus 10% ("unrecoverable fees" they call it) if I would like. Am still kinda mulling it over - but think I'm gonna do it. Yeah - I'll be out about $25 vs. probably making a tidy profit if I got my pledge and ebayed it all. But the latter would eat up a bunch of my time - which is increasingly precious to me.
Sasori wrote: Wish the portal would include an option for a refund, as at this point I'd rather just have my money back than waiting another 3 years for it.
I actually emailed the KD: M team (support@kingdomdeath.com ) just the other day and asked if I could get my pledge refunded. (Not sore about the delays really, just in the intervening years have fallen out of the hobby - and don't want to deal with ebaying it all or whatnot). They told me they will refund my pledge - minus 10% ("unrecoverable fees" they call it) if I would like. Am still kinda mulling it over - but think I'm gonna do it. Yeah - I'll be out about $25 vs. probably making a tidy profit if I got my pledge and ebayed it all. But the latter would eat up a bunch of my time - which is increasingly precious to me.
That would be worth it for me, I'd be out quite a bit, but the amount of work to ebay everything would be significantly more.
FWIW, I would definitely wait if having the cash liquid isn't urgent. Even selling chunks whenever you get them in one go rather than parting them out in any way should still be well worth your time.
They always get backed up on sales, so it's kind of the luck of the draw when your order gets processed... Short answer: it can definitely take a while longer.
spiralingcadaver wrote: They always get backed up on sales, so it's kind of the luck of the draw when your order gets processed... Short answer: it can definitely take a while longer.
Gotcha. Still have plenty to work on right now, so not a huge deal. Thanks for the response!
And KD just shipped my Black Friday order—via DHL across a border. Seriously USians just stop doing that. Never mind that DHL’s coverage in Canada is smaller than a bikini in the French Riviera, but they have a $17 handling fee and somehow charged $5 GST on a $32 item. Oh, and they aren’t open during weekends.
update 83 said: Estimated Shipping date: Feb 2021 (so not with the wave 3 stuff)
but given black Friday stuff is just beginning to appear the may well take a month or two to get round to them (or more if they weren't in the containers that finally got out of the rail yards)
but given black Friday stuff is just beginning to appear the may well take a month or two to get round to them (or more if they weren't in the containers that finally got out of the rail yards)
I missed that - thank you Orlando!
And yeah, Kingdom Death's normal pace of progress + Pandemic Shipping Woes + USPS in recovery mode = "It's gonna be a while"...
If Black Friday orders are finally going out (I'm going to assume older releases, as the new stuff went out pretty quickly) maybe they finally got those shipping containers they'd been waiting on?
I'd like to see some movement on those pinups. They are definitely out there in the wild in AUS and the UK for sure. If shipping wasn't ungodly sums for a single figure I'd probably grab one to tide me over until my own pledge arrives...
but given black Friday stuff is just beginning to appear the may well take a month or two to get round to them (or more if they weren't in the containers that finally got out of the rail yards)
I missed that - thank you Orlando!
And yeah, Kingdom Death's normal pace of progress + Pandemic Shipping Woes + USPS in recovery mode = "It's gonna be a while"...
I missed It first time round as well and though they'd be in the same shipment initially too
Not surprised the Kickstarter updates don't get as much attention as they used too, but in case anyone missed the latest one, Poots has set a deadline to get the Gamblers Chest ready for production by August (With shipping expected Q1/Q2 2022), totes for reals this time.
More interesting (to me at least, because I've always thought it would be a good idea), was Poots comment that they've tried, twice, to bring in a Project Manager to help but they didn't last long :(
FWIW, strictly, this only stated being finished "developing" by the end of the year. This leaves trial printing (which they explicitly do), shipping those back, proofing them, then actually going into production, and all the international delays right now.
In similar news, the update card pack that was put on preorder is getting proofed now so might be to those who ordered, within a year of having been preordered. For some cards. Explicitly with or without some promised replacements, depending on which list of components you believe.
There hasn't been talk of finalizing CoD yet, and if you're paying attention to the pictures you can see there's an undiscussed new hybrid armor set or some other variant, so we can assume they're not even done adding new content that needs rules and sculpting.
spiralingcadaver wrote: There hasn't been talk of finalizing CoD yet, and if you're paying attention to the pictures you can see there's an undiscussed new hybrid armor set or some other variant, so we can assume they're not even done adding new content that needs rules and sculpting.
I was wondering if that was a new Spider Silk guy tucked down there amongst the miscellaneous pictures, and I don't think there's been an official mention of the Mushroom Armour set either.
Yeah, even if (and that's a big if) the Gamblers Chest stays on schedule there's still years of work left to do.
The two attempts at working with a project manager is very funny to me. One didn't learn the game, which isn't necessary for project management but it still seems they were let go for it, and the other didn't feel comfortable with the workplace culture/environment and quit. Given that this information was quietly tucked away in the comments of an update that ended with yet more art and renders for content that is unrelated to what has been promised for Wave 4, I can't say I'm surprised.
It's rude to assume, but in hindsight it seems obvious to me now that a project manager was never going to help this far down the line now that the worst of their habits have been well and truly cemented.
"Here's some more bad news, we're running behind our rolling delay schedule again, we swear it was unavoidable, cut us some slack, now enjoy all of this proof that we've actively been distracting ourselves with future content post-Wave 4"
for a team as small as KD everybody has to be able to at least help out in different roles so yes i'd expect the new project manager to at least try and learn the game
(after all without knowing what it is all about they won't be able to properly weight their descisions, what can they push Adam on, what is a clear no go, what to they need to really chase the factory for to allow dev & release to go smoothly, what do they give a little more flexibility on to keep the relationship sweet etc)
that's not to say I think it would be a simple/easy job by any stretch, especially with no travel possible
ya. I have no sympathy for the PM that didn't learn the game. If you work for a company, you need to learn the product especially if it's your role to get the development/production on track and hitting deadlines. You cannot do that unless you understand what the team is doing and why. I'd boot any PM that tried to work for my team that didn't actually learn/use what we were selling.
I'm sure they got a free copy. Assembly though is part of learning what the product is.
Still, I'm not sure how much hope I have on this getting out in the time Adam wants as really he should just stay that it's all done but X and that x will be finished at a cut off date instead of giving promises that I can't really see him keeping. I know I'm getting a lot of stuff for my $777 pledge (even more since Poots doubled the core gamblers plastic content) but there comes a time that delivering a product is more important then making it 100% what you want it to be when you're someone like Poots. even 80% of what he would want would have been a better game then most others out there but he just kept pushing things out and getting people, rightfully, upset with this and probably ruining his companies reputation. I cannot see another KD kickstarter doing this well again.
Still, I'm not sure how much hope I have on this getting out in the time Adam wants as really he should just stay that it's all done but X and that x will be finished at a cut off date instead of giving promises that I can't really see him keeping. I know I'm getting a lot of stuff for my $777 pledge (even more since Poots doubled the core gamblers plastic content) but there comes a time that delivering a product is more important then making it 100% what you want it to be when you're someone like Poots. even 80% of what he would want would have been a better game then most others out there but he just kept pushing things out and getting people, rightfully, upset with this and probably ruining his companies reputation. I cannot see another KD kickstarter doing this well again.
I dunno.
The disgruntlement level is rather high in the KS comments at the moment but they're still pretty outnumbered by fans (supposedly) willing to wait years until Poots makes the "perfect" game.
If there is a third Kickstarter, it might not hit $13 million again, but I reckon it would probably get close as people gamble on scope creep getting them a ton of freebies again without worrying about the resultant development time.
Heck, I'd back a third one, not in a substantial way, but I'd be willing to pledge for a basic 'Upgrades the game to version 2.0 or whatever' level (As long as it looked fairly completed).
Honestly, if CMON keeps making insane amounts even though they keep having issues with delivering their former kickstarter and often launch another as soon as one's campaign has been successfully funded, I don't see why Kingdom Death wouldn't be able to succeed another one.
Fans never needed logic nor reason. They are only fueled by passion. And well...Kingdom Death is such a niche game (there is nothing like this game anywhere else on the market, as far as I know), what are your options here except waiting ? It's not like there is a real competition for this one specifically, and you know that if this company fails and goes bankrupt, there is little chance anything similar will come back anytime soon. The thing is, the core design of the game and the miniatures are so specialized (least to say is that the universe is...well...not really appealing for the main miniature / boardgame market) it's clearly a project made by pure passion by the designers more than trying to make it profitable (like, ever). And if you're a a fan of it, you know there is only one way to get it. So I think they would have quite a high chance of success if they were to launch another KS hypothetically while this one is not delivered yet.
spiralingcadaver wrote: There hasn't been talk of finalizing CoD yet, and if you're paying attention to the pictures you can see there's an undiscussed new hybrid armor set or some other variant, so we can assume they're not even done adding new content that needs rules and sculpting.
I was wondering if that was a new Spider Silk guy tucked down there amongst the miscellaneous pictures, and I don't think there's been an official mention of the Mushroom Armour set either.
Yeah, even if (and that's a big if) the Gamblers Chest stays on schedule there's still years of work left to do.
I have neither the passion nor energy to figure out where it is, but the mushroom armor has been seen at a few points, incl. weapons, concepts and digital sculpts. I don't think it's been shown as done.
And regarding your note on staying in for another KS, yeah that's about where I feel. Like, the game may be awesome (and it's far from perfect but it is enjoyable), but 5 years without substantial new content is like an entire edition cycle for some games. I just find it mystifying at times that fans maintain their enthusiasm with this. I think in some ways it would be a relief to not be waiting for this stuff.
I find forgetting that I ordered things entirely helps a lot. RiTides gets all my order updates and periodically lets me know if I need to pay attention, and I have the orders shipped to family members who don't move as much as I do (3 states and 4 houses since I backed this) so I don't need to think about that.
What that means for other people, I don't know, but yea, at this point it is basically some massive background system whose epicycles periodically drop a box of something with my name on it somewhere I will probably visit soon in any case. One could call it a really erratic subscription box, or the basis for a primitive religion.
I would probably back again, so long as my parents are in good enough health to still be alive and in my childhood home when the packages arrive... so maybe two more KS tops?
It's mostly more of the same, Team Poots continues to work very hard but the Gamblers Chest needs just a little bit more tweaking (the deadline on getting this finished has already slipped again to October).
In better news, they're going to air freight the Card Pack so we should see those September-ish (The new 1.6 Base Games are going to be stuck in Container Ship Purgatory however).
And work has been going on in the background on the later Wave stuff, so hopefully they shouldn't take quite as long to wrap up (I still wouldn't be surprised if some of the more ambitious expansions see some elements reduced in scope or dropped though).
And, most importantly (to me anyways), the Bard Armour Kit looks pretty sweet, even if some of the poses seem a bit wonky.
BF Kickstarter update now says Gambler's Chest end of 2022 (though to be fair they're aiming to print in March/April and just allowing for the nightmare shipping situation. Caused more fuss by saying they were doing an NFT.
December 20th - Pencils down.
January 3rd - Final layouts, copy editing, final campaign run throughs, final fuss.
February 10th - Delivery of assets, printing pre-production.
Printing should begin in earnest towards the end of February or beginning of March. Then, it will be packed and loaded onto boats and shipped out to fulfillment centers.
It has been a long road filled with scope creep and unprecedented global challenges. I am pleased to report that we stuck to our Kingdom Death ideology and pursued creation without limits or a shred of sanity!
The world is still reeling from global supply chain complications. So here is the official line:
The global supply chain is a bit of a disaster right now. Paper assets are at an all time premium, there is still a major backlog for semi-conductors, shortage of truckers, lack of shipping containers, ocean freighters stuck at ports, delays at rail yards, increased random inspections, lack of PS5's, no Steam Decks for Xmas etc. Oh, and more demand for product than EVER before as all the money usually spent on tourism and general outings pours into consumer goods. A shipping container to the USA for example, is around 10x more expensive than it was a year ago. For us, that means that every Core Game costs about +$30, but for industries that ship low value items, it means they can't afford to ship things out at all. That is, if you are lucky enough to even get a container! (That also means the current estimate on ocean freight shipping the Gambler's Chest Expansion is about 1 million dollars!)
All this is to say, we will strive to meet the deadlines above but we cannot anticipate all the challenges that this project may meet in its manufacturing and shipping stages. If the Gamblers Chest Expansion has the same manufacturing and shipping delays as the 1.6 Core game, then we should see the GCE being delivered around End of November / December 2022. However, this is speculation at best and we really won't know until it's happening. Could be quicker, could be even slower.
Core Games 1.6 - Shipping
These are finally starting to land at fullfillment centers and have begun shipping to people that pre-ordered them! That means, we will have Core Games available again soon.
Kingdom Death Monster 1.6 Price Increase to $420
This is the last chance to get the Core Game 1.6 at a discounted price. After Black Friday, it will be going up in price to offset some of its increased manufacturing and shipping costs. While the games are being fulfilled now, we have decided to accept pre-orders for a final time. Then, provided we don't hit further rail yard, inspection, customs hold, etc delays, games will finally be available in December.
How do we plan on solving a global supply chain issues and bring everyone the Gambler's Chest they deserve as quickly as possible?
Ah, with our simple 6 step plan:
1. Deathgrey Resin Kings Coin
September 18, 2020, we held a little instragram event, inviting fans to create some Nightmare Paella with us. These 7 participants are finally geting their Deathgrey Resin King's Coin shipped out to them! The coin features artwork of the hand reclaiming the original Gold King's Coin from the masses, and a unique serial code printed along the edge of the coin. Every coin is also furnished with a certificate of authenticity. To the owners of these coins, my apologies it took so long, they are ready now!
2. I offer you this, but a single King's Coin NFT!
Available on OpenSea
Our first and possibly only NFT offering:
They say the holder of this coin can potentially change the hobby world forever! Internally speaking we are still unsure about how we feel about digital collectables, but its Black Friday so we thought we'd put this unique piece of Kingdom Death history out there!
Bid on The Original Golden King's Coin NFT. Auction ends Cyber Monday November 29 6 PM EST.
3. Pinup Painting Contest
In the new year, we will be launching another organized painting contest, this time focused on our pinups. Now would be an excellent time to pick up some models for practice and start researching skin tone tutorials for that perfect fleshy photo finish!
4. New Releases with Beta Rules
Next year, we will be releasing new canon KD characters with beta rules. Any new cards will be printed locally and have non-rounded corners. This will allow us to bring everyone a bit of gaming entertainment and bring us back to the gaming table while we mentally steel ourselves for the wait of manufacturing and shipping.
5. Gigantic 3D Printer
We are working on bringing a massive 3D printer into our studio to explore creating unique artwork and accessories for people to build out their perfect Kingdom Death game room! Check out this GIANT Pinup Lioness Bust!
6. KD Sim Server Stress Test
The Kingdom Death: Simulator has been such an absolute joy and I am already starting to get really excited about sharing it with everyone. At some point we will need to run a stress test to gauge how many players and activity we can have concurrently on our shards and where things start to break down. Once we are closer to some sort of public release, we will create an updated version of our showdown tracker which will continue to be available for free to any fan that has a copy of the core game. It will not have as many features as the full version of the sim. Like the final version of the Record Player, or the ability to leave the gaming table. I am absolutely not giving out legs for free. Sorry!
Wait, none of the above 6 mentioned things will help make anything ship faster!
It's true. And while none of these things will actually solve or even help our global centralized manufacturing supply chain issues and shipping crisis, they should, hopefully serve as wonderful distractions as we finish, put into production, put onto ocean freighters, and ship out the rest of this kickstarter. That’s right, the plan is to distract everyone while they wait and we work! Then, hopefully either things will ease up, we will start to see more locally available manufacturing solutions, or we'll finally get cargo teleporters online. Regardless, we will be pushing the Campaigns of Death along and breaking off nearly finished Wave 4 expansions to prepare for the next print and shipping cycle.
We are here, we are not going anywhere. We love Kingdom Death and we love your support. While I personally cannot claim the fault of the supply chain crisis, I certainly can claim that the Gambler's Chest Expansion was delayed because I wanted to make it the very best we could. I stand by that.
Campaigns of Death
Let’s talk about Campaigns of Death! This project is thankfully, very much on its way. With all the balances and adjustments to our existing monsters long signed off on. Currently whats left to finish development on, are pieces of content for some of the new campaigns that will be part of the experience along with play testing the new content to ensure it feels right within the context of everything, including the new monsters in the GCE. The Strain System could use some layout tweaks, but is otherwise strong.
While working on the GCE, we constantly cross-checked and ensured that all the new ground work we were laying would fit nicely within the Strain System, which introduces a “meta” to the structure of campaigns and campaign generation. Ushering in a “death world” wherein multiple campaigns are run. In the course of development we complicated and uncomplicated this process several times before finally landing on a system that gelled nicely. The end result is compellingly simple. Each campaign can have up to 10 strain cards, that are divided between 6 minor and 4 major strains. A minor strain might be something as simple as a new vermin type being added to your game, while a major one would be the entire Scout System!
Wave 4
Much like Wave 3, we are also going to break this shipping wave into multiple parts. The Titan Bee, Black Knight, Screaming God, Frog Dog, Pariah, Red Witches, and Nightmare Ram have all had signifiant development; and I am leaning towards breaking content off to ship out as Wave 4 part 1 rewards. Ideally, I'd love for these to all hit print at around the same time the Campaigns of Death does. The shipping prices are so nightmarishly high, why even bother holding back content anymore. It's time to embrace the chaos! EMBRACE IT!
Dark Herald
Next year, we will be starting a bit of a new thing! I am excited to introduce the Dark Herald, an entity dedicated to bringing everyone news about this massive kickstarter on a monthly basis. Every month, the Dark Herald will meet with the team, review where we are with a given project and then create a nice "catch up" to share here on kickstarter. There has been such a tremendous amount of work and development made on such a staggering amount of projects, we felt this was an ideal time to get a bit more organized as we march this insane kickstarter to its close.
Tentative Schedule (Smaller items, like wanderers will be scheduled as we go):
January 2022 - Campaigns of Death
February 2022 - Frog Dog
March 2022 - Red Witches & Black Knight
April 2022 - Oblivion Mosquito
May 2022 - Nightmare Ram
June 2022 - Gryphon
July 2022 - Pariah & Mountain Man
August 2022 - Abyssal Woods
September 2022 - First Hero & Screaming God
October 2022 - Ivory Dragon & Super Survivors
Thank you. Forever.
Thank you again for your monumental patience as we bring this monumental project to a close. I hope that when this box, that's even bigger than the Core Game, arrives at your doorstep that our unwavering commitment to the quality of the experience will shine through! I find it only fitting that something that is more and more feeling like a sequel to our Core Game, take about twice as long to develop! There is really no easy road nor any shortcuts I or the team felt was appropriate.
Oh, and we have some more progress on the Ivory Dragon! The resin masters have arrived, which means the next step is to scan it, clean it up and get it ready for hard plastic!
I know at this point I have probably shown everyone more then enough Artwork from the Gambler's Chest Expansion and should prob just hold off, but here are just a fffeewwww more things!
Glad Poots has finally realised he needs help getting these updates out regularly, but that was a surprisingly lacklustre update overall compared to the usual Black Friday ones.
It's such nonsense, the sentiment that "as we bring this monumental project to a close" when literally this is the second substantial release, with more than a dozen large ones remaining. This is the largest, but the project isn't remotely close to being brought to a close.
edit: and this is actually further out from gambler's chest delivery than it's been in the past, so even for the one item, it's hardly at a close. I also don't know what the hell "pencils down" means if they're still playtesting and copy editing. Like, is that not, you know, editing as they have been? Do they mean, like, they won't be adding more stuff after the 20th? Because, shouldn't they have stopped adding stuff at one of the other times they said they were basically done?
I wouldn't be surprised if most (all?) of this stuff was offered again, but possibly at increased prices as we finally, hopefully, maybe some day reach the actual day where all of this stuff ships...
I’ll shoot them a message through backer kit. The page does say it ends on Cyber Monday but doesn’t specify if that’s just the core box or if everything ends.
spiralingcadaver wrote: It's such nonsense, the sentiment that "as we bring this monumental project to a close" when literally this is the second substantial release, with more than a dozen large ones remaining. This is the largest, but the project isn't remotely close to being brought to a close.
Maybe this is his way of letting us know that everything past the Gamblers Chest is cancelled due to him blowing the budget on giant 3D printers?
Saw the thread had been bumped and thought there'd finally been a significant update. At the rate the Gamblers Chest is going, people will have lived or died through two "once in a hundred years" pandemics before the 1.6 kickstarter delivers in full.
Glad I didn't go in on it, even tho I like dark fantasy. I feel for the rest of you.
Oh damn, they did close the expansion bundle and gambler’s chest with the 1.6 preorder.
Too bad for me, but I didn’t need to be spending $2200 on one game right now anyways. I’ll definitely be trying to get the Ivory Dragon expansion later though.
BobtheInquisitor wrote:I wish I had taken what I pledged for KDM and invested it in Bitcoin at the time.
That's...wait...you...
...ouch.
Damn!
BrookM wrote:gak, still waiting on that add-on book and the hyperlight drifter crossover mini.
I think that's "Wave 4", which is beyond even the Gambler's Chest and most likely a 2023 delivery at this point?
I shouldn't have looked. In terms of the most recent kickstarter, my pledge coulda got me about 1BTC, so I missed out on around $60k in gains I guess. In terms of the previous kickstarter - which I dropped my pledge on but later ended up buying from you (Alpharius) for around $1000, I coulda got about 75 BTC based on the value of BTC in Jan 2013, so I missed out on a cool $4.5 mil
BobtheInquisitor wrote:I wish I had taken what I pledged for KDM and invested it in Bitcoin at the time.
That's...wait...you...
...ouch.
Damn!
BrookM wrote:gak, still waiting on that add-on book and the hyperlight drifter crossover mini.
I think that's "Wave 4", which is beyond even the Gambler's Chest and most likely a 2023 delivery at this point?
I shouldn't have looked. In terms of the most recent kickstarter, my pledge coulda got me about 1BTC, so I missed out on around $60k in gains I guess. In terms of the previous kickstarter - which I dropped my pledge on but later ended up buying from you (Alpharius) for around $1000, I coulda got about 75 BTC based on the value of BTC in Jan 2013, so I missed out on a cool $4.5 mil
Yeah...I sold all 4 of my Bitcoin around April 2013 when the price collapsed...for about $54 each.
Kind of regret that...
But on the other hand Shiba is being very good to me. I bought that in January. Holding on to it until the Amazon adoption in Q1.
The legendary card packs are finally out (and pretty much delivered world wide, greatbto tick that off..... of cource lots of new white box content since then that aren't in it)
and new minis showed up for halloween and Xmas but it wasn't worth me posting here as they sold out before i got the emails
and core game (v1.6) is back in stock and shipping
and KS news gamblers chest is scheduled for print in Feb with delivery towards the end of the year (assuming shipping/manufacturing delays are similar in 22 to 21)
I wonder if I can cancel the.. whatever it is that's still outstanding at this point. Interest for the game has more than died out and with the extra costs involved with shipping from the UK, fething hell.. not looking forward to that one bit. Though at the rate things have been going, maybe by the time it finally is considered done and ready to ship out, a miracle may have happened in the UK.
BrookM, yes, there are definitely reports of people not having a lot of trouble canceling it.
And more and more I'm considering the cutoff at the campaigns of death. If the Gambler's chest and the campaigns are good (they don't need to be great, I do really enjoy many KD models... the goblin/dragon looks like a joy to paint) that's one thing, but IDK what I'll feel if it's uninspired...
BrookM wrote: I wonder if I can cancel the.. whatever it is that's still outstanding at this point. Interest for the game has more than died out and with the extra costs involved with shipping from the UK, fething hell.. not looking forward to that one bit. Though at the rate things have been going, maybe by the time it finally is considered done and ready to ship out, a miracle may have happened in the UK.
I got a refund on the rest of the stuff recently. It was just getting silly at this point, and I probably won’t even use it, at least not enough for the money I had sat in it. It was pretty painless.
spiralingcadaver wrote: BrookM, yes, there are definitely reports of people not having a lot of trouble canceling it.
And more and more I'm considering the cutoff at the campaigns of death. If the Gambler's chest and the campaigns are good (they don't need to be great, I do really enjoy many KD models... the goblin/dragon looks like a joy to paint) that's one thing, but IDK what I'll feel if it's uninspired...
Talked it over with my brother and he wants to stick to it, he thinks that the twelve million that has been collected during the campaign isn't all used up just yet.
Oh well, his choice, I know he really wants that Hyper Light mini, which in my eyes is akin to vapourware at this point, as there hasn't been a peep on that thing from the day the campaign was completed as far as I can tell.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
aku-chan wrote: Will it be worth putting up with Poot's nonsense for another decade though...
Agreed, as mentioned (many times) before in the past, a good editor or someone to keep the author a bit more in check would've been great.
100% yeah would let you know first; like I said I'm looking at those two before making any decisions and that would be a couple years from now at least... (sigh)
I'm nearly certainly on board because the minis are very nice, but if the rules are a real let-down, I'd have to think, and we really haven't seen any new content in years to really judge what's coming (just some tiny promo expansions).
I only pledged for the core game and the Gambler's Chest. I guess I could hit the refund button and maybe get $100 back, but I suspect I can sell the Chest for more than that if it ever shows up... I sold the 1.5 core game after maybe four or five plays.
aku-chan wrote: I would've mashed the refund button ages ago, but the Kickstarter discount is just too good.
I just know if I dropped out, I'd end up buying a load of it at retail anyways, at a what 60 to 70% price increase?
Will it be worth putting up with Poot's nonsense for another decade though...
I'm in the same boat. My game group plays this game in waves. Like I know sometime in the next few years we'll play a lot of it over half a year. Add that I got the earlybird all in pledge for $777 and I know I'm getting a great price. But at the same time Poot's nonsensical drive for an unachievable concept of perfection is something none of us should have to put up with as it's clearly worse now then years ago.
FWIW inre: refunds - I got a refund no problem last year by emailing support@kingdomdeath.com they did keep 10% of my pledge for kickstarter fees, but I got the rest back.
Monkeysloth wrote: But at the same time Poot's nonsensical drive for an unachievable concept of perfection is something none of us should have to put up with as it's clearly worse now then years ago.
Thats the nature of KS you vouch support and give money to projects... Like you said the path to perfection was already there but you invested in more of that.
Schmapdi wrote: FWIW inre: refunds - I got a refund no problem last year by emailing support@kingdomdeath.com they did keep 10% of my pledge for kickstarter fees, but I got the rest back.
@Alpharius yes sorry I forgot to mention the 10% thing.
Monkeysloth wrote: But at the same time Poot's nonsensical drive for an unachievable concept of perfection is something none of us should have to put up with as it's clearly worse now then years ago.
Thats the nature of KS you vouch support and give money to projects... Like you said the path to perfection was already there but you invested in more of that.
I knew from the first Kickstarter that he has a huge scope creep issue, but this second one has been a whole new level of ridiculous. It’s been what, 5 years? And the only things I’d actually received were all stuff that was already out before that Kickstarter started.
I understand it's naive to have assumed he'd have learned a thing or two from the first Kickstarter (which went from a 10 month estimate to over 3 years for delivery and an additional 9 months before canning and refunding the Lantern Festival), but I don't think anyone could have seen it getting so much worse.
I'd looked at the ~4 year turnaround for the first one, saw the ~4 year estimate for this one and thought the prior experience had created a more realistic outlook. Now I'll be impressed if it finishes before the 10 year mark, the way it's blown out and getting worse. Already wasting time planning stuff for the next Kickstarter too, which is a level of delusional self-confidence you almost have to admire.
Yeah, I think almost everybody that went in on this Kickstarter expected it to run at least a couple of years late.
But I very much doubt anyone thought Poots would get stuck for half a decade trying to turn a stretchgoal grab bag of one-off minis and various new item and ability cards into a second base game.
While I agree that the 2nd KS has not only grown beyond the bounds of logic, I still look at the value of what I pledged for (the $777 Gambler's Chest in the first 2 minutes) versus the cost of those items on pre-order now...well...its no Bitcoin, but it is definitely a value deal.
Also, my game group has still not processed even half of the first KS...so the length of time us just fine for us.
Eh. I'm not too worried. It does seem like things are moving again. We'll get it eventually.
Then again I'm not out too much as I grabbed one of those super early bird pledges the instant it started, and I've already gotten a lot of bang for my buck in terms of just the pinups.
These are still some of my favorite models, and I'm a lot more industrious at getting those painted then I am at actually playing the game!
I need to get to work on my Halloween survivors as well... haven't even opened them yet.
The issue is its been so long since we had any new gameplay content. A lot rests on the Gambler's Chest and these "advanced" versions of games often end up fiddly or bloated. As a $50 pack of minis it was worth it for me, but I'm less convinced the rules will stand up. And if they don't, and if something like Aeon Trespass or Oathsworn are really good at being "KDM, but better" then I'd worry about ever seeing wave 4.
Yep, if I'm not mistaken, it's been 4 years since any real content has come out (1.5 upgrade, incl. tweaks, a lackluster campaign expansion, and a pretty nice new monster you fight once after 30+ others), and almost 7 years since the prior expansions.
I had really expected the GC to be something fun to keep the game interesting while later expansions got delayed; I had no idea that it would become a mammoth source of further delays. Like, I used to say I was sure it would be solid but at this point half a decade without real content leaves a lot riding on one release.
Hell, I'd be happy to be proven wrong: if the GC drops, and it feels like a brand new game, I'd love to recapture the excitement of when my previous two giant KD boxes hit. But at this point a solid campaign with some good monsters, some obvious typos, and immature humor/illustration won't probably be enough. My expectations are now pretty much that it's likely KD will be a decent co-op sandbox that's easy to mod and will have some good fights, but I would be surprised if it was ever my favorite game again.
Schmapdi wrote: FWIW inre: refunds - I got a refund no problem last year by emailing support@kingdomdeath.com they did keep 10% of my pledge for kickstarter fees, but I got the rest back.
@Alpharius yes sorry I forgot to mention the 10% thing.
No worries - and thank you for the help!
I've already started the process and will get my refund soon (minus the 10% KS fees) and I'll be glad to be done with this project.
Hopefully it all eventually completes and ships out and I do wish everyone still involved the best of luck with everything!
This is just a quick update to let everyone know that we may see further personal, professional, production and logistics disruptions as the omicron variant rages across the globe. And so I humbly ask for everyone to temper their exceptions in regards to the development and production timeline I outlined last year, prior to Omicron’s impact.
Rough translation: we may see further delays.
Despite this, the feeling around myself and the team has evolved into sturdy determination. We will return to kickstarter at the end of the month for our first Dark Herald lead update, despite whatever happens in reality.
We are fired up and ready to tackle any challenges that come our way. Planet eating robots be damned, we will continue to work as hard as we possibley can. BRING IT ON 2022!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Looking at the comments section, I think that small attempt at being more communicative backfired badly.
I get what Poots was trying to say, that there's a lot of unknown factors at play at the moment and he can't be held to strict deadlines and stuff. But it just comes off as him covering his backside for when the shipping date for the Gamblers Chest inevitably slips even further away.
It doesn't help that he's admitted (in the comments, not the actual update) he's still tinkering with the danged thing!
Upside: he says they'll have everything for the Gambler's Chest to the printers by Mid February to begin printing right after CNY. Even with shipping delays, that means we may actually see it in 2022.
Downside: He's basically stated in a few comments 'I didn't swear a blood oath, I keep you guys updated that it's been delayed'. He doesn't like be called out that he breaks promises, even though he does it a lot.
The shipping cost changes alone are going to be staggering. If we get anything by the end of 2022, I'll call it a win. If I get everything by 2025, i'll consider it a win.
Neither am I. I just wish he had split the GC into minis with rules vs minis without rules. We could have gotten all of the next-gen Survivors over a year ago!
As it is, he got a big cash injection from the Core Game preorder, so he's got the resources to do whatever he likes and we'll just keep waiting.
In the mean time, I've got other stuff in the backlog that I've been working on.
I'm actually glad I pulled out last year seeing this mess of an update. Now I just need to get around to selling 1.5 and all the original expansions to clear some space...
Breotan wrote: Just as long as he doesn't start a new Kickstarter prior to completely fulfilling this one. That'll twist my shorts in a hot sweaty bundle.
I actually think under KS's new rules he wouldn't be allowed - you need to have 3 previously fulfilled projects before you can run a project with fulfilment outstanding. You also have to be in "good standing" with KS - which you lose if you don't regularly update.
Of course he could always just chuck it on Gamefound.
The much anticipated (By me at least) first Dark Herald update is out.
Unfortunately, it's continuing the trend of pretty lacklustre updates, with most of this one more or less cut'n'pasted from earlier ones.
Plus it looks like some stuff has been cut (I'm sure the Campaigns of Death expansion used to have a Mushroom Armour set), which, if that is the case, ain't a good sign.
But, Poots has set up a special e-mail address just for people who want to moan at him, so that's ...something.
aku-chan wrote: The much anticipated (By me at least) first Dark Herald update is out.
Unfortunately, it's continuing the trend of pretty lacklustre updates, with most of this one more or less cut'n'pasted from earlier ones.
Plus it looks like some stuff has been cut (I'm sure the Campaigns of Death expansion used to have a Mushroom Armour set), which, if that is the case, ain't a good sign.
But, Poots has set up a special e-mail address just for people who want to moan at him, so that's ...something.
Largely just a repeat of old news as you say
Here’s the 2019 listing for the Gamblers Chest
1 x Ancient Butcher Monster (100mm base)
1 x Beetle Baron Monster (100mm base)
1 x Verdant Lord (50mm base)
1 x Vocal Spidicules (50mm base)
1 x Infant Sunstalker (50mm base)
3 x Infant Sunstalker Caretakers
1 x Intimacy Couple - People of the Stars
1 x Intimacy Couple - People of the Sun
2 x Warriors of the Sun
2 x New Hybrid Armor Set Narrative Sculpts
2 x Baron Mushroom Armor Set Narrative Sculpt
Vs today
Ancient Butcher Monster Miniature
Dung Beetle Baron and Baron Ball Monster Miniatures
Verdant Lord Monster Miniature
Vocal Spidicules Monster Miniature
Infant Sunstalker Monster Miniature
People of the Stars Intimacy Couple Miniatures
People of the Sun Intimacy Couple Miniatures
Warriors of the Sun Miniatures
Sunstalker Caretaker Miniatures
Dark Flower Armor Set
Skyking Armor Set
Both have 11 entries so the last 2 might be new names for the Hybrid and Mushroom sets?
EDIT well Dark Flower is a hybrid set and doesn’t match the artwork for the Mushroom armor
Absolutely. Best read in the voice of Darryl Whitefeather from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, when he's trying to convince his employees that they are actually his friends, and everyone just kind of looks at him pityingly but doesn't quite have the energy to argue.
aku-chan wrote: The much anticipated (By me at least) first Dark Herald update is out.
Unfortunately, it's continuing the trend of pretty lacklustre updates, with most of this one more or less cut'n'pasted from earlier ones.
Plus it looks like some stuff has been cut (I'm sure the Campaigns of Death expansion used to have a Mushroom Armour set), which, if that is the case, ain't a good sign.
But, Poots has set up a special e-mail address just for people who want to moan at him, so that's ...something.
Largely just a repeat of old news as you say
Here’s the 2019 listing for the Gamblers Chest
1 x Ancient Butcher Monster (100mm base)
1 x Beetle Baron Monster (100mm base)
1 x Verdant Lord (50mm base)
1 x Vocal Spidicules (50mm base)
1 x Infant Sunstalker (50mm base)
3 x Infant Sunstalker Caretakers
1 x Intimacy Couple - People of the Stars
1 x Intimacy Couple - People of the Sun
2 x Warriors of the Sun
2 x New Hybrid Armor Set Narrative Sculpts
2 x Baron Mushroom Armor Set Narrative Sculpt
Vs today
Ancient Butcher Monster Miniature
Dung Beetle Baron and Baron Ball Monster Miniatures
Verdant Lord Monster Miniature
Vocal Spidicules Monster Miniature
Infant Sunstalker Monster Miniature
People of the Stars Intimacy Couple Miniatures
People of the Sun Intimacy Couple Miniatures
Warriors of the Sun Miniatures
Sunstalker Caretaker Miniatures
Dark Flower Armor Set
Skyking Armor Set
Both have 11 entries so the last 2 might be new names for the Hybrid and Mushroom sets?
Dark Flower and Skyking Armor sets are the hybrid armor sets, aren't they? Slenderman x Flower Knight, and Dragon King x Sunstalker respectively (Updates #83 & #82).
I don't remember what the Baron Mushroom Armor was supposed to be attached to, if anything; has it been mentioned since the similar looking Smog Singer/Bard Armor was fleshed out for the Gambler's Chest?
Also, I'll try not to kick a man while he's down, because the Hatemail Hotline seems to suggest the criticisms and annoyance are finally getting to him, but I'm really tired of all the grandiose phrases being thrown around to justify a complete lack of impulse control. Bodes poorly for the future viability of the product if it's too complex and bloated to be broken down into more easily digestible components. Kingdom Death is a whaler's paradise, but I really have to wonder how well the final $400+ (MSRP $450?) Gambler's Chest will be able to sell. I got it for a quarter of that, and the surge to pick it up in subsequent PM openings seemed more like people trying to pounce on it before it ballooned even further and grew beyond their means. Campaigns of Death blew up horrifically too; the original book that collected the original 12 1.0 expansions should have remained its own thing instead being tangled up in a $250+ hulk of plastic and paper. They've assured fans in the past that the company finances are fine, but like any business that's only the case when people actually buy what they're selling. Will be interesting to see how they handle themselves after all this, and I'll be watching with curiosity but not concern.
After much thought I’ve decided to ask for a refund of the balance of the pledge and unreceived add ons (over $200 there alone!) The game has been unplayed for quite some time and I have little interest in it anymore plus it will probably cost me over €200 in future shipping and VAT so better to take whats left now.
We shot them an email asking about what the deal is with the Hyper Light Drifter mini, as they've been awfully mum about that one since the campaign has ended.
But other than that, nothing new really, just doubling down on the "You are supporting the pursuit of my selfish creation" bit that's been around since the first day.
But.. is the Campaigns of Death thing just a book or also that massive list of minis and whatnot?
BrookM wrote: We shot them an email asking about what the deal is with the Hyper Light Drifter mini, as they've been awfully mum about that one since the campaign has ended.
But other than that, nothing new really, just doubling down on the "You are supporting the pursuit of my selfish creation" bit that's been around since the first day.
But.. is the Campaigns of Death thing just a book or also that massive list of minis and whatnot?
BrookM wrote: But other than that, nothing new really, just doubling down on the "You are supporting the pursuit of my selfish creation" bit that's been around since the first day.
But.. is the Campaigns of Death thing just a book or also that massive list of minis and whatnot?
I didn't mind a little selfishness, but it's up to a point, and I think Adam may have passed that point by dragging things along so far. IMNSHO, Adam has forgotten that Kingdom Death is, and always should be, something for builders and painters before boardgamers. While it's nice that he makes a game, most of us are really into it for the beautiful, exotic minis, and every day that passes without delivery of minis just hurts. Calling a super-late preorder for $$$ "family" is total bullgak, and really rubs me the wrong way.
Campaigns of Death was originally a book and some fixes, but now it's become a huge thing that I will never buy.
Yeah, no. Speak for yourself. There are many of us who are in this for the gameplay as much as (and in some cases more than) the miniatures. Kingdom Death has achieved way more sales success selling itself as a board game than it did when it was just a range of resin miniatures being marketed to builders and painters looking for prestige items. The goregous minis you are waiting on today would not exist if it wasn't for the game driving sales of his products.
Yeah, I agree about the BS "family" comment being BS, but KD is primarily a board gaming company now, and it's pretty clear that gaming content is a major part of what drives purchases and has change the game from niche resin to the audience it has now.
I'm also honestly not really sure why the complaints that it's not showing enough interest in models was immediately followed by the complaint that a bunch of models were added to an expansion that began as mostly rules...
On the general feeling, though, yeah, that last update made me pretty mad, too.
You have that completely backward. The game wouldn't exist at all if not for the miniatures driving sales of his products. The main proposition for the original KS was that we would get KD minis in plastic at a plastic price, and that is what he delivered.
There hasn't been a new game expansion released in how long? Yet there are still miniatures sales keeping the company afloat.
Kingdom Death would be far more successful if they had cut gameplay content to the bone and focused on accelerating plastic miniatures production.
The 1st KS offered PVC, the HIPS upgrade was after the campaign.
Our evidence is all anecdotal about what drive sales, the board game communities I'm around are much larger and more active than here so let's say that I agree that products with weak content are supporting the game during this period where players are starved for content, but the motivations I've encountered described commonly don't align with your guess.
Quick update: Refund was very smooth. No issues. Email them, they can't refund the 10% KS takes, and that was it. Was super quick.
I think folks have to start wondering how long the money he got via kickstarter can really be stretched out, espeically with how much went into the gamblers chest. I enjoyed the OG KD, but life has moved on at this point.
The game itself was ok, but this amount of delay is just painful...
but there's an old Japanese anime trope about wearing women's panties on one's head. There's even an anime five years ago that did it, based on a light novel.
