Yep, they're pretty speedy with the refunds!

I was very surprised with how much I got back, but it shows just how little the Kickstarter has actually fulfilled at this point (And that I probably sunk way too much money in it in the first place).

Still waiting on my refund but I think it's a Paypal issue it was processed last Monday and it's gone from my Backerkit projects list. Got most of the money back as said I was surprised how much was (or should be) refunded even after fees.

Good to hear it was a painless experience for you, Sasori.

They're determined to spend it all, the way they and some in the community keep referring to it as a 12 million dollar game, and I've no doubt the annual BackerKit reopening tops up the funds rather nicely (perhaps less so these past two years, mind). The storefront seems to continue doing well, which I vaguely recall being brought up a while back to allay concerns about finances.

 Sasori wrote:
I think folks have to start wondering how long the money he got via kickstarter can really be stretched out

That money is long gone. The GenCon after, Poots said that the KS funds didn't even last a year and rolling releases were keeping things going. Whether gone means completely gone, or just budgeted for stuff like the remaining 50% of payment on delivery-not sure, but $12m goes pretty quick these days.

There is roughly ZERO chance of KD being bankrupt.

Adam has just kept his same team running at the same pace, based on his annual Shop revenues are. Unfortunately, having several times the amount of work to do, and increasing it even further with extra rules content for lateness makes a late project even later. It's very cost-conscious, based on him nearly going bankrupt during the 1st KS.

Adam never really scaled up like he should have after the 2nd KS, when he should have brought on an Ops guy and an 2nd dev team. The lack of an Ops guy to rationalize products and delivery, to rein him in a bit for timeliness vs "perfection" vs scope creep is what's absolutely killed delivery. The lack of a 2nd dev team focused on future product ("Wave 4"), and a 3rd team focused on new product concepts (eg. "Death High" boardgame, "KD: Starter") is why there's no new product coming out the door.

But the idea that he's bankrupt is completely ludicrous. The 2nd KS reprinted the Core and original Expansions for several Million pure profit. The most recent Core reprint injected another few $ Million profit. Adam very likely has a cash balance of at least ten Million and can literally afford to drag this out for the next decade if he wants to. There is no other small developer with the sort of deep cash position that he has, and as long as he doesn't do something stupid, he'll continue to be deeply-funded for the next several years. He is so well-funded that he has absolutely ZERO revenue pressure.

The total lack of revenue pressure is the big difference with the 1st KS, where he absolutely needed to deliver the Core and Expansions to recover his investments and generate future revenue.

wait, whats that - Adam has 10 million in the bank off of board game sales? Sounds a lot like the game is driving sales to me.

It's for the miniatures in the boxes.

Maybe he should not have been so well funded... The need of money would pressure the project to actually be delivered and move on.

Anecdotally, I bought the game the other week because I wanted the models, however having played the base game for a bit I am thoroughly enjoying it.

I just wish it was easier to get hold of new copies of the base game & expansions...

Yeah, the game's OK, but that's not the main draw. Adam did an experiment at GenCon where he offered the Core Game at a lower price without miniatures, and there were basically no takers. The miniatures drive the price of the content.

This is why I say Adam's gamplay priorities are wrong. Kingdom Death miniatures are priced comparably to Games Workshop, but they include gameplay that is expensive and slow to develop. People would pay just as much for the same expansions if the gameplay elements were cut to the absolute bare minimum, as evidenced by GW being able to charge more for models without any gameplay whatsoever. OTOH, there's basically no market for selling the expansions as pure gameplay without miniatures included.

The GenCon experiment was flawed as he only offered them to people who were already queueing up to buy the game at the regular price.
You can see from the sales of Pinups of Death vs. the other stuff in the pledge manager that the gameplay content is vastly more popular. And PoD delivered recently so those that purely want minis are getting their content. All the current complaining is from those that just went in for the gameplay stuff.

deano2099 wrote:
The GenCon experiment was flawed as he only offered them to people who were already queueing up to buy the game at the regular price.
You can see from the sales of Pinups of Death vs. the other stuff in the pledge manager that the gameplay content is vastly more popular. And PoD delivered recently so those that purely want minis are getting their content. All the current complaining is from those that just went in for the gameplay stuff.

I’m not sure that’s a great comparison either, it might just be that the pin up models aren’t as popular either. I don’t know which is more popular, and I don’t think you’d really know unless they offered the exact same models with and without the gameplay stuff at the same time. The models were by far more a draw for me than the game, but I’m not a fan of the Pin Up models for the most part.

 aku-chan wrote:
Yep, they're pretty speedy with the refunds!

I was very surprised with how much I got back, but it shows just how little the Kickstarter has actually fulfilled at this point (And that I probably sunk way too much money in it in the first place).

Their refunding policy is just another example of how bad they run their business. I emailed support@kingdomdeath.com, no response. Did it via backerkit, actually got a pretty quick response. All of a sudden they are offering me a refund of $1008, even though I only backed for $815 AND I already received half my stuff . I told them again, that I only backed the $815, so they took that as the refund number minus 10% fee stuff, and ask ME to confirm if that is correct . At this point I just agreed just to be done with it. Not complaining that they gave me more than they should have, at that point after having pointed it out twice it's on them..

MoD_Legion wrote:

 aku-chan wrote:
Yep, they're pretty speedy with the refunds!

I was very surprised with how much I got back, but it shows just how little the Kickstarter has actually fulfilled at this point (And that I probably sunk way too much money in it in the first place).

Their refunding policy is just another example of how bad they run their business. I emailed support@kingdomdeath.com, no response. Did it via backerkit, actually got a pretty quick response. All of a sudden they are offering me a refund of $1008, even though I only backed for $815 AND I already received half my stuff . I told them again, that I only backed the $815, so they took that as the refund number minus 10% fee stuff, and ask ME to confirm if that is correct . At this point I just agreed just to be done with it. Not complaining that they gave me more than they should have, at that point after having pointed it out twice it's on them..

I never even thought about it, I just assumed they'd know how much to refund me.
Giving it a quick look now, I don't think they've charged me for anything I've been sent.

Guess I'd better set the money aside for a while, see if they realise they've made a mistake.

 ImAGeek wrote:

deano2099 wrote:
The GenCon experiment was flawed as he only offered them to people who were already queueing up to buy the game at the regular price.
You can see from the sales of Pinups of Death vs. the other stuff in the pledge manager that the gameplay content is vastly more popular. And PoD delivered recently so those that purely want minis are getting their content. All the current complaining is from those that just went in for the gameplay stuff.

I’m not sure that’s a great comparison either, it might just be that the pin up models aren’t as popular either. I don’t know which is more popular, and I don’t think you’d really know unless they offered the exact same models with and without the gameplay stuff at the same time. The models were by far more a draw for me than the game, but I’m not a fan of the Pin Up models for the most part.

Maybe - the other comparison is the models they are continuing to make and sell for various events. On the one hand, they sell out straight away. On the other hand, they don't make enough to even stock any of the international stores with them.

Or KDM is the 50th most popular board game on BGG. To put that into perspective, Silver Tower is 1920, Blackstone Fortress is 1399, Underworlds is 754. (AoS itself is 4011 thought that's not a fair comparison). Zombicide is 203.Cthullu Wars 275.

The only miniature-focused games that beat it are Nemesis (at 17) and Blood Rage (36). You could argue for Eclipse and Mansions of Madness I guess. I was trying to look for the next highest rated game that had minis on sprues but got bored at 300. It's probably Shadows of Brimstone (419).

The game is very popular. When the biggest board game site in the world ranks you as the 50th best board game ever, ignoring that aspect of the market would be unwise!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Yeah, the game's OK, but that's not the main draw. Adam did an experiment at GenCon where he offered the Core Game at a lower price without miniatures, and there were basically no takers. The miniatures drive the price of the content.

This is why I say Adam's gamplay priorities are wrong. Kingdom Death miniatures are priced comparably to Games Workshop, but they include gameplay that is expensive and slow to develop. People would pay just as much for the same expansions if the gameplay elements were cut to the absolute bare minimum, as evidenced by GW being able to charge more for models without any gameplay whatsoever. OTOH, there's basically no market for selling the expansions as pure gameplay without miniatures included.

Adam has also experimented with selling "preview" miniatures without the forthcoming gameplay content, and the sales on those werent particularly great either, with some being available weeks after they were posted on sale.

deano2099 wrote:
You can see from the sales of Pinups of Death vs. the other stuff in the pledge manager that the gameplay content is vastly more popular.

No, the new fancy monsters are vastly more popular than ordinary humans that people have plenty of via Armor Kits, Echoes of Death and so forth. There are multiple Dragon-type Monsters (eg. Ivory Dragon, Gryphon), and they are, by far, the most popular (ie. profitable) Fantasy thing to sell.

deano2099 wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

deano2099 wrote:
The GenCon experiment was flawed as he only offered them to people who were already queueing up to buy the game at the regular price.
You can see from the sales of Pinups of Death vs. the other stuff in the pledge manager that the gameplay content is vastly more popular. And PoD delivered recently so those that purely want minis are getting their content. All the current complaining is from those that just went in for the gameplay stuff.

I’m not sure that’s a great comparison either, it might just be that the pin up models aren’t as popular either. I don’t know which is more popular, and I don’t think you’d really know unless they offered the exact same models with and without the gameplay stuff at the same time. The models were by far more a draw for me than the game, but I’m not a fan of the Pin Up models for the most part.

Maybe - the other comparison is the models they are continuing to make and sell for various events. On the one hand, they sell out straight away. On the other hand, they don't make enough to even stock any of the international stores with them.

Or KDM is the 50th most popular board game on BGG. To put that into perspective, Silver Tower is 1920, Blackstone Fortress is 1399, Underworlds is 754. (AoS itself is 4011 thought that's not a fair comparison). Zombicide is 203.Cthullu Wars 275.

The only miniature-focused games that beat it are Nemesis (at 17) and Blood Rage (36). You could argue for Eclipse and Mansions of Madness I guess. I was trying to look for the next highest rated game that had minis on sprues but got bored at 300. It's probably Shadows of Brimstone (419).

The game is very popular. When the biggest board game site in the world ranks you as the 50th best board game ever, ignoring that aspect of the market would be unwise!

Time-out: Is it 50th best or 50th most popular? Because you're using them interchangeably and they mean very different things...

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

deano2099 wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

deano2099 wrote:
The GenCon experiment was flawed as he only offered them to people who were already queueing up to buy the game at the regular price.
You can see from the sales of Pinups of Death vs. the other stuff in the pledge manager that the gameplay content is vastly more popular. And PoD delivered recently so those that purely want minis are getting their content. All the current complaining is from those that just went in for the gameplay stuff.

I’m not sure that’s a great comparison either, it might just be that the pin up models aren’t as popular either. I don’t know which is more popular, and I don’t think you’d really know unless they offered the exact same models with and without the gameplay stuff at the same time. The models were by far more a draw for me than the game, but I’m not a fan of the Pin Up models for the most part.

Maybe - the other comparison is the models they are continuing to make and sell for various events. On the one hand, they sell out straight away. On the other hand, they don't make enough to even stock any of the international stores with them.

Or KDM is the 50th most popular board game on BGG. To put that into perspective, Silver Tower is 1920, Blackstone Fortress is 1399, Underworlds is 754. (AoS itself is 4011 thought that's not a fair comparison). Zombicide is 203.Cthullu Wars 275.

The only miniature-focused games that beat it are Nemesis (at 17) and Blood Rage (36). You could argue for Eclipse and Mansions of Madness I guess. I was trying to look for the next highest rated game that had minis on sprues but got bored at 300. It's probably Shadows of Brimstone (419).

The game is very popular. When the biggest board game site in the world ranks you as the 50th best board game ever, ignoring that aspect of the market would be unwise!

Time-out: Is it 50th best or 50th most popular? Because you're using them interchangeably and they mean very different things...

50th best according to boardgame geek. https://boardgamegeek.com/browse/boardgame

So it's rated highly, doesn't mean it's actually that popular.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

deano2099 wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

deano2099 wrote:
The GenCon experiment was flawed as he only offered them to people who were already queueing up to buy the game at the regular price.
You can see from the sales of Pinups of Death vs. the other stuff in the pledge manager that the gameplay content is vastly more popular. And PoD delivered recently so those that purely want minis are getting their content. All the current complaining is from those that just went in for the gameplay stuff.

I’m not sure that’s a great comparison either, it might just be that the pin up models aren’t as popular either. I don’t know which is more popular, and I don’t think you’d really know unless they offered the exact same models with and without the gameplay stuff at the same time. The models were by far more a draw for me than the game, but I’m not a fan of the Pin Up models for the most part.

Maybe - the other comparison is the models they are continuing to make and sell for various events. On the one hand, they sell out straight away. On the other hand, they don't make enough to even stock any of the international stores with them.

Or KDM is the 50th most popular board game on BGG. To put that into perspective, Silver Tower is 1920, Blackstone Fortress is 1399, Underworlds is 754. (AoS itself is 4011 thought that's not a fair comparison). Zombicide is 203.Cthullu Wars 275.

The only miniature-focused games that beat it are Nemesis (at 17) and Blood Rage (36). You could argue for Eclipse and Mansions of Madness I guess. I was trying to look for the next highest rated game that had minis on sprues but got bored at 300. It's probably Shadows of Brimstone (419).

The game is very popular. When the biggest board game site in the world ranks you as the 50th best board game ever, ignoring that aspect of the market would be unwise!

Time-out: Is it 50th best or 50th most popular? Because you're using them interchangeably and they mean very different things...

Best. Which then creates popularity.

Being good doesn't necessarily make something popular. When was the last time a Best Picture winner grossed a billion dollars?

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good - see: Twilight.

Hence why I asked for the distinction.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Being good doesn't necessarily make something popular. When was the last time a Best Picture winner grossed a billion dollars?

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good - see: Twilight.

Hence why I asked for the distinction.

Yeah, for sure. There are many, many games below that ranking that are much more popular than KD for instance.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

deano2099 wrote:
You can see from the sales of Pinups of Death vs. the other stuff in the pledge manager that the gameplay content is vastly more popular.

No, the new fancy monsters are vastly more popular than ordinary humans that people have plenty of via Armor Kits, Echoes of Death and so forth. There are multiple Dragon-type Monsters (eg. Ivory Dragon, Gryphon), and they are, by far, the most popular (ie. profitable) Fantasy thing to sell.

That comparison isn't at all accurate. The biggest monsters are tied to the most game content, compared to "armor kits" (which btw undermines your case, they're not talked about like they're popular, not priced like they're popular, and have no gaming content) or echoes of death (low gaming content, still more popular than the armor kits). Yes, obviously people like their epic models. But the question is, would these models be things that the average consumer of the line cares about, without the game content? There's resin models which represent a limited specialty item (low print volume) and much higher price point, and that speaks to yes the existence of a collector's market, but the plastic-only version of kits which are occasionally released get far less attention than new expansions; these never evaporate off the digital shelves like things with gaming content, and I would say reflect an "average" customer interest inlarge models rather than those superfans who need the most detailed and limited edition, faithfully resin-cast monster genitals without game content for $200. The aftermarket is pretty nuts regardless (high prices for models only, content only, etc), and I was going to say it's a wash, but no, it isn't: the question isn't, do customers like models or content more (which would be hard to tell from that), but do customers predominantly like only the models, and no, the aftermarket doesn't support the models-only hypothesis either: last I noticed, there hasn't been a high volume of rules broken off from their content to be sold and left to languish on ebay or wherever; rather, new fans are always talking about which is the best expansion to get, which suggests an interest in mechanics rather than visual taste (why start internet threads about which model you should like the look of best? considering answers to such threads, I would say that people assume likewise that it's a mechanical question). Related: there's apparently a high enough demand for a digital version of the game. No, we probably will never know sales numbers, but again we have demand to work with, and that isn't counting the people who play illegal versions of the game online.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Being good doesn't necessarily make something popular.

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good - see: Twilight.

On Yelp, McDonalds is both popular *and* "good".

Just because something is rated highly doesn't mean that the rating is meaningful.

 DaveC wrote:
After much thought I’ve decided to ask for a refund of the balance of the pledge and unreceived add ons (over $200 there alone!) The game has been unplayed for quite some time and I have little interest in it anymore plus it will probably cost me over €200 in future shipping and VAT so better to take whats left now.

I've been pondering doing this. I bought into the game in 2015 and my last pledge was delivered over 4 years ago. I may even sell off what I have as I've never touched it and can't find anyone to play the game with. The stuff I ordered from Wave 4 is likely still YEARS away and I honestly would rather have that money for the New Eldar and Tyranid releases. How did you go about asking for the Refund?

It's really weird, whenever I try to sell the game to people to play with me, I always get "Yeah, that game looks amazing. But, I'm not interested in playing it. Thanks."

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

deano2099 wrote:
You can see from the sales of Pinups of Death vs. the other stuff in the pledge manager that the gameplay content is vastly more popular.

No, the new fancy monsters are vastly more popular than ordinary humans that people have plenty of via Armor Kits, Echoes of Death and so forth. There are multiple Dragon-type Monsters (eg. Ivory Dragon, Gryphon), and they are, by far, the most popular (ie. profitable) Fantasy thing to sell.

Ah yes, this is why Age of Sigmar is mostly dragons. Every week there's a new dragon Lieutenant coming out.

I'm sure Silver Tower has outsold Kingdom Death. The minis in that were also very popular at the time. And yet that game is rated far lower. People on BGG aren't rating it high because of the fancy minis clearly. The game itself is very popular for being a pretty unique style of game.
And these days board games are a bigger market than minis.

 Togusa wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
After much thought I’ve decided to ask for a refund of the balance of the pledge and unreceived add ons (over $200 there alone!) The game has been unplayed for quite some time and I have little interest in it anymore plus it will probably cost me over €200 in future shipping and VAT so better to take whats left now.

I've been pondering doing this. I bought into the game in 2015 and my last pledge was delivered over 4 years ago. I may even sell off what I have as I've never touched it and can't find anyone to play the game with. The stuff I ordered from Wave 4 is likely still YEARS away and I honestly would rather have that money for the New Eldar and Tyranid releases. How did you go about asking for the Refund?

It's really weird, whenever I try to sell the game to people to play with me, I always get "Yeah, that game looks amazing. But, I'm not interested in playing it. Thanks."

Email support@kingdomdeath.com and request a refund. They refund to PayPal so give them your details for that.

Mine came through yesterday after following it up again. Used it to pay off my Marvel Zombies and Rampart KS and still have a nice chunk left for some future KS or 2. 1 KS becomes 4 or 5.

 DaveC wrote:

Email support@kingdomdeath.com and request a refund. They refund to PayPal so give them your details for that.

Mine came through yesterday after following it up again. Used it to pay off my Marvel Zombies and Rampart KS and still have a nice chunk left for some future KS or 2. 1 KS becomes 4 or 5.

I actually got no response directly emailing that address. If you go to backerkit there's an option the 'refund my original pledge' and they'll forward the message to KD. I got a very fast response through that.

I mean, if the point of a game is for people to play it, then it being popular does mean it's good.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
I mean, if the point of a game is for people to play it, then it being popular does mean it's good.

No, I think you're not understanding. Subjective responses that don't support your view are meaningless even when the issue is subjective responses. It's just their opinion, man.

Started going through my armor kits, which I've assembled none of, and realized I have an extra Watcher and Phoenix still on sprue. Was that a 1st Kickstarter extra?

I can't imagine needing two, so they may go up on the 'bay.

 gunslingerpro wrote:
Started going through my armor kits, which I've assembled none of, and realized I have an extra Watcher and Phoenix still on sprue. Was that a 1st Kickstarter extra?

I can't imagine needing two, so they may go up on the 'bay.

Yep extra 1 of each of them and 5 Kings Men

 Baragash wrote:
Halloween Survivors II to Australia looks to have been FUBAR'd and anything going by USPS is now on it's way back to KD

Finally got a refund, two months after they automatically opened a support ticket on my behalf. Full refund, sans the plastic bases that shipped from a different warehouse and the cost associated with that.

Not exactly the resolution I would have liked, but that it was resolved at all is appreciated enough

I'm sorry to see people going for the refund but at the same time it's understandable. I really want the stuff from wave 3 and 4 so I'm going to ride it out. I'm not in a position where I need the money and I doubt this KS will fail or wind up fethed like McVey's.

Kingdom Death BF news: "For the first time, Kingdom Death: Monster enters a virtual world with the announcement of Kingdom Death Simulator. "
https://mailchi.mp/kingdom-death/kingdom-death-news-2962432?e=c90e8cccfa

KDM KS Update: PM reopens. GC finally printing. "Estimated Delivery - Q2 / Early Q3 2023." Sure.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/poots/kingdom-death-monster-15/posts/3666638

Guess I'll look up the best Tabletop Simulator mods for KD and back them up locally.

This guy's commitment to inaccessibility boggles the mind.

I really hope the newer armour sets are available outside their expansions at some point, they've been getting very snazzy!

So I got my simulator invites today.

It's much better made then I expected. You actually have a whole house to explore (though it's not finished), when not playing the game. It's very atmospheric.

Only real downside is it's online only so you cannot play it with no internet. But at the same time focusing on a good online play is probably a good thing for those that want to play remotely with friends.

Xmas update brings no new info on the GC completion and announcement of a new expansion and a commitment to make it sometime this century.
To be clear, that's not a joke. His lack of any ability to read the room does make me worry about the future of the series.
.

I mailed them asking what the deal is with the Hyper Light Drifter crossover mini ages ago and still.. zip. Nada. Zilch. Nothing.

You know, there was a point where I strongly considered getting into Kingdom Death. This thread has done far more to convince me not to than the price tag ever could.

To be frank if one backs/ orders and is expecting anything other than be delivered sometime in the future late and overbloaded with extra stuff is not backing KDM with healthy epxpectations.

Is it right? is it wrong? I do not know, but it is what it is.

I’m on my second pacemaker since the campaign. If I get to pacemaker number three and still no KDM, I’m out.

Life literally isn’t long enough.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
To be frank if one backs/ orders and is expecting anything other than be delivered sometime in the future late and overbloaded with extra stuff is not backing KDM with healthy epxpectations.

Is it right? is it wrong? I do not know, but it is what it is.

I think most went into it thinking it'd be late, probably the latest Kickstarter they had ever backed, like maybe even three years late.

But we are now looking at best scenario the GC being delivered 5 years late.

Wave 4 is already being chunked up and realistically I think the last parts of this project are going to deliver ten years late.

There's late and there is *late*

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I’m on my second pacemaker since the campaign. If I get to pacemaker number three and still no KDM, I’m out.

Life literally isn’t long enough.

Ha!

(Seriously though - wishing you a happy and healthy 2023!)

The ridiculous delays, scope bloat, penis overload and no end in sight nature of...the whole thing saw me cash out a while back.

One of the few good gaming related decisions I've ever made.

I honestly keep forgetting KD is a thing i backed til I get an email update or see the thread on here resurface
At this point I think i'm just in for the gamblers chest or whatever it was called
Hell, I don't even own the base game anymore, sold it off to a coworker at a past job

I feel I'm one of the only few left on Dakka that is still somewhat optimistic about the whole mess and keeps an eye on things.

I'll be more than happy to swoop in and start picking up extra armor kits and whatnot when everyone floods the market in disgust.

Sucks that a lot of pepole spent more than they should have, especially knowing it wasn't the most financially sound decision backing a project from a known perfectionist/ procrastinator.

I don't think I'll ever understand the furious indignation people seem to spew all over the internet though- their game will come.

Did nobody learn anything from the first time around? I don't think Adam or many backers did.

Maybe 2023 will finally be the year I get the game back on the table though!

I'm middle of the road here. My friends all love the game more then I do at the moment but I don't hate it.

Technically we're only at the 2 year late mark, as the originally expected delivery for the whole thing was December 2022, which is what I know I was expecting as 2020 was way too unrealistic for Adam. But it feels like we're still another 2 years out to get everything.

Of course Adam's timelines that were never kept pre-covid doesn't help people feel like delivery is much father behind.

I was mostly happy with the first KS, except that he cancelled the Lantern Festival.

The updates feel less coherent than the first KS, and he seems to be stuck working on the Gambler’s Chest and nothing else, at least nothing I pledged for.

And don’t poo-poo complaining in the internet. It’s an entertaining and sometimes cathartic way to let off steam.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I feel I'm one of the only few left on Dakka that is still somewhat optimistic about the whole mess and keeps an eye on things.

I'll be more than happy to swoop in and start picking up extra armor kits and whatnot when everyone floods the market in disgust.

Sucks that a lot of pepole spent more than they should have, especially knowing it wasn't the most financially sound decision backing a project from a known perfectionist/ procrastinator.

I don't think I'll ever understand the furious indignation people seem to spew all over the internet though- their game will come.

Did nobody learn anything from the first time around? I don't think Adam or many backers did.

It's way, way worse than last time though. It's taking as long to deliver the GC as it did the entire first KS or something close to that. Admittedly, COVID, but I do think the frustration is understandable. Its a game that requires a lot in terms of investment of time and lives move on, I think the reality is for a lot of people that their lives are simply no longer configured in such a way to support that. Bear in mind the board game hobby community is somewhat different - there's no local play groups for KDM and people don't necessarily have the same amount time carved out in their lives - wargaming demands a lot of time for painting etc. whereas board gaming can flex a bit more. You can still be into board games and not have time for a long campaign game any more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
I'm middle of the road here. My friends all love the game more then I do at the moment but I don't hate it.

Technically we're only at the 2 year late mark, as the originally expected delivery for the whole thing was December 2022, which is what I know I was expecting as 2020 was way too unrealistic for Adam. But it feels like we're still another 2 years out to get everything.

Of course Adam's timelines that were never kept pre-covid doesn't help people feel like delivery is much father behind.

I think two years is optimistic for just the GC and Campaigns of Death.
I genuinely expect wave 4 to split into 4 or 5 chunks that deliver every 2 years over the next decade.

Dude's gonna pay himself a couple hundred grand a year out of the KS fund to lounge around and do feth all. Each Black Friday he tosses out some art of floppy tits and fat asses to get more suckers to pour cash into the coffers for something he never even has to deliver. It's a damn good scam.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
Dude's gonna pay himself a couple hundred grand a year out of the KS fund to lounge around and do feth all. Each Black Friday he tosses out some art of floppy tits and fat asses to get more suckers to pour cash into the coffers for something he never even has to deliver. It's a damn good scam.

Hey now the tits are perky and the asses are thicc, not fat! ?
They’re fun to paint though.


I have no horse in this race. I just enjoy painting the pin up models once in a while.

> Sucks that a lot of pepole spent more than they should have, especially knowing it wasn't the most financially sound decision backing a project from a known perfectionist/ procrastinator.

THEY WERE WARNED .

I'm going through the Blacklist Games Fantasy Series drama. KDM is NOTHING compared to that!

Only looked at the KDM mini's and haven't cracked open the inner shrinkwraps (which is more than I've done for some of my games so I don't feel I have any right to complain. And I got some games for Christmas that should keep me busy -- gee, I even played one of them once!

Can't speak for others obviously, but I wonder how many disgruntled backers are basically in the same situation as me, where they love the Kingdom Death brand but pretty much hate the guy and the way he does things?

I felt like I had to back the Kickstarter, despite my misgivings, because I wanted the stuff and it was going to be far too difficult/expensive to get it at retail, and even though you know you'll get everything in the end, you feel kinda trapped and at the mercy of Poots's whims, and the longer it takes and the more nonsense you put up with, the more angry and frustrated you get at having to get onboard in the first place.

Realising I'd lost interest in a big chunk of the Kickstarter (I just want a couple of expansions and a load of armour kits now) and cashing out actually did wonders for my enthusiasm for all things KD.

 ced1106 wrote:
> Sucks that a lot of pepole spent more than they should have, especially knowing it wasn't the most financially sound decision backing a project from a known perfectionist/ procrastinator.

THEY WERE WARNED .

The thing is, you can go back and look at the KS, and yes, there were warnings, but most of them were "expect it to be a couple of years late"
Absolutely no one said "don't expect to have any new gameplay content for five years"
People were talking worst case scenarios and such and no-one thought it would be this late.

Is there any KDM at retail?

I think all retail is only through his own storefront, IIRC he had his reasons for this move, but it's been aeons ago since I read that in a newsletter of his.

 BrookM wrote:
I think all retail is only through his own storefront, IIRC he had his reasons for this move, but it's been aeons ago since I read that in a newsletter of his.

Thanks. I have often wondered why something that should be huge didn't have a presence outside of their own storefront.

If they wanted to keep them limited boutique minis why proceed with a game and KS (or maybe the scarcity provided by the KS delays is somehow a cunning plan to keep the oiks from throwing even more money Poots' way?)

Kickstarter/Backerkit is actually the best way to keep things exclusive and limited. I can’t even find a single article detailing what’s supposed to be in the $2100 mega bundle that they did when the preorders for 1.6 were open. IIRC it was a bunch of expansions that aren’t available yet and everything in the Gambler’s Chest.

So if someone who is sorta in the loop of Kingdom Death can’t even find proof something was for sale, Adam is doing a great job keeping the common man out of the picture. I think that at this point he doesn’t want more sales when he hasn’t even delivered on goods he sold years ago.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I think all retail is only through his own storefront, IIRC he had his reasons for this move, but it's been aeons ago since I read that in a newsletter of his.

Thanks. I have often wondered why something that should be huge didn't have a presence outside of their own storefront.

If they wanted to keep them limited boutique minis why proceed with a game and KS (or maybe the scarcity provided by the KS delays is somehow a cunning plan to keep the oiks from throwing even more money Poots' way?)

Because if he sold into retail that $200 core box would have to sell for twice that if not more? KD was really the first big box of miniatures that couldn't justify being in stores that's common now. He sells on his store because he can make a profit, more profit, there then retail where he has to sell to distributors for 30%-40% of retail pricing. Fredrik, owner of monolith, had a blog post a few years ago where he broke down costs for his games and why they weren't viable to be in general retail.

This is honestly why his company hasn't gone under and it the smartest thing he's done. He's also lucky to have the demand that he can just sell directly and not worry about retail.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I think all retail is only through his own storefront, IIRC he had his reasons for this move, but it's been aeons ago since I read that in a newsletter of his.

Thanks. I have often wondered why something that should be huge didn't have a presence outside of their own storefront.

If they wanted to keep them limited boutique minis why proceed with a game and KS (or maybe the scarcity provided by the KS delays is somehow a cunning plan to keep the oiks from throwing even more money Poots' way?)

Because if he sold into retail that $200 core box would have to sell for twice that if not more? KD was really the first big box of miniatures that couldn't justify being in stores that's common now. He sells on his store because he can make a profit, more profit, there then retail where he has to sell to distributors for 30%-40% of retail pricing. Fredrik, owner of monolith, had a blog post a few years ago where he broke down costs for his games and why they weren't viable to be in general retail.

This is honestly why his company hasn't gone under and it the smartest thing he's done. He's also lucky to have the demand that he can just sell directly and not worry about retail.

That actually makes sense.

And makes the issues with this KS seem almost inevitable.

 aku-chan wrote:
Can't speak for others obviously, but I wonder how many disgruntled backers are basically in the same situation as me, where they love the Kingdom Death brand but pretty much hate the guy and the way he does things?

This is pretty much it for me. The guy is arrogant, living his best life on our dime, doing next to nothing, and his fawning sycophants still act like he's the second coming. The game is fun-ish, but the miniature fights are the least engaging part of it, and the ones I played were not particularly tactically engaging.

I don't think he's exactly living his best life when he has since the end of the campaign lost both his parents and weathered a multi-year global pandemic with the rest of us, but there's a lack of responsibility and accountability in his conduct that I do genuinely despise.

The "free" additional content from the scale creep is now a problem in its own right for me. I get that it sounds like a good problem to have, but there's just no conceivable way I can actually store all of these things. Hard to understand for the creator of KDM who has lived and breathed his product for the past decade, but it's not such an important part of my life that I'm willing to part with the amount of space it'll now take up.

You just need to pull up some floorboards and hollow out a crawl space under the pantry.

New KS update: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/poots/kingdom-death-monster-15/posts/3799255

Final (pre-production/pilot?) sample of the Gambler's Chest. Just pictures, no words.

I backed this KS when my kid was in daycare. He will be in middle school by the time I receive this (assuming mid/late Q3 given production + shipping + distribution).

I enjoyed seeing the email preview that was all exclamation points. But then I opened the email and realized Poots’s email hadn’t been hacked. What a let down.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I enjoyed seeing the email preview that was all exclamation points. But then I opened the email and realized Poots’s email hadn’t been hacked. What a let down.

Not sure if they're making more (Or people are buying less), but I like that their minis no longer instantly sell out, and I don't have to get up in the middle of the night to see if there's anything I want.

Wish the international shipping was a bit lower though, $24 postage on a $30 figure is painful!

 aku-chan wrote:
Not sure if they're making more (Or people are buying less), but I like that their minis no longer instantly sell out, and I don't have to get up in the middle of the night to see if there's anything I want.

Wish the international shipping was a bit lower though, $24 postage on a $30 figure is painful!

Well, I'm sadly in the "buying less" camp. I have about 90% of KD's 1st edition releases up until the 2nd Monster KS, but after that they sold out so fast I had no chance of buying a 1st edition...so I stopped buying the resins.

I really should put them on eBay and just focus on the plastic kits and the game.

Even I'm slowing down, and I absolutely love the models.

My irritation is pricey pinup models in a scale I don't enjoy with gaming stuff price locked behind it.
Some of the recent pinups has been an experience in frustration as well trying to build them.

I haven't bought anything in quite a while as nothing's really stood out to me outside some Death High. I like the some of the recent strongmen but not enough to order.

Including myself, I know 12(?) people that got at least the Monster core box and most of us haven't bought anything in a long time. Wouldn't be surprised if it isn't 100% no purchasing. Now I wonder how many even still have their collections?

a good amount. Their discord is still quite active and one of the larger official discords i'm in. Just because people here on Dakka don't talk about the game much anymore doesn't mean that the game any less popular then any system that's been around as long as it has. Things peak and then taper off.

True. We are still managing about 1 campaign per year. This summer we will attempt Spidicules (I finally got them built and painted).

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:

Some of the recent pinups has been an experience in frustration as well trying to build them.

Let me guess... Death Crown Inheritor Aya by any chance?
Mine got packed away because I couldn't face all that gap filling

 aku-chan wrote:

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:

Some of the recent pinups has been an experience in frustration as well trying to build them.

Let me guess... Death Crown Inheritor Aya by any chance?
Mine got packed away because I couldn't face all that gap filling

I found both of the plastic models from that month to be gappy and annoying to fix... :(

I meant how many of the group I know still have their collections. For sure three cut bait, and a couple others massively reduced their collections to just game content.

Yeah, that Death Crown pinup Aya is PISSING ME OFF.
It's a bit of a mess, and looking at the version glued up on the website makes me wonder if it was an early version because the gaps on mine are so MASSIVE.

The gaming sized ones, totally fine.
Wish they'd stop bundling pinups with the game sized figures. I love the game sized stuff. I can use it.
I don't even care about the game content. I just want to build those game sized models. Could care less about the overtly sexualized pinup junk.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Yeah, that Death Crown pinup Aya is PISSING ME OFF.
It's a bit of a mess, and looking at the version glued up on the website makes me wonder if it was an early version because the gaps on mine are so MASSIVE.

Yea, I noticed that, too. Most of the time some light filing of the sprue gets me enough sprue-goo to fill the gaps but I had to do much more than I was really comfortable with for this model. Still, it wasn't as bad as the Gold Smoke Knight.

Gambler's Chest shipping.: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/poots/kingdom-death-monster-15/posts/3858154
USA: $39.

Steve and Sixth posted model assembly instructions:

"The list, as found by the members of the Lantern's Reign Discord (sorry to Adam is this isn't meant to be public yet, but it's community knowledge-collection), is;

https://build.kingdomdeath.com/the-gambler

Gambler's Chest Narrative Miniatures:
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/axeman-family
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/beast-hunter-armor
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/bone-eater
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/bowmaster-of-deadrock
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/bright-knives
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/champion-of-the-goblin
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/clever-strategist
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/cockroach-queen
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/cursed-spear
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/dark-eye
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/father-and-son
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/herb-gatherer
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/honorable-berserker
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/immitation-butcher
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/leyline-walker
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/mad-and-mighty-striker
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/magma-masochist
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/murder-victim
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/murderer
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/popular-guy
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/romantic-adventurer
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/shadow-stalker
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/screaming-hoarder
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/sprinter-armor
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/tough-guy
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/white-fang

Gambler's Chest Monsters
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/atnas
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/crimson-croc
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/godhand
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/the-gambler (only one image)

Placeholders
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/bone-eaters
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/dark-flower
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/death-armor
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/honeycomb-weaver
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/the-king
https://build.kingdomdeath.com/oblivion-mosquito

The $40 shipping to the US is pretty reasonable considering the size and while it sucks to pay more, plus the massive delay, Poots pretty much doubled the contents of it. Since they've also been good at refunds I feel that if you're still in the campaign paying for shipping isn't going to bother you much.

Shipping my Gambler's Chest is less than the last CMON game I paid shipping for.
40 bucks seems fair for its size.

Looking forward to building the stuff I've seen screenshots of for years.

Also their July sale is up if there's anyone who still cares besides me. Some stuff sold out but there's a fair amount still up. Be aware that the birthday gift does in fact have spoilers if you keep scrolling.
The best looking model of the month, Gunborg, may pop back up again since she'll be done in that photoresin- which I have to say their latest offerings of have had ZERO cleanup necessary. Flawless prints. It was pretty wild.


(Still have yet to finish building that Death Crown Inheritor Aya. Really should finish her!)

I know I complain a lot about how Kingdom Death does things, but I am super grateful that they let you spoil yourself on the contents of the Birthday Gift if you wanted to.
Would've been massively disappointed to spend $60 on that.

Still got me for a Painters Scale Gunborg and a Remastered Forsaker though!

Hopefully that Forsaker is just the start of the remastered line, would love another chance to get some of their older stuff.

Ive been out the loop for a while and i have no idea where we are at in the project apart from the Gamblers Chests is getting sent out soon.

Can someone please tell me which of the following we are still waiting on and possibly an ETA on them.

Satan
Annonymous Survivor
Hard Plastic Game Board
Campaigns of Death
Death Armor Expansion
First Hero Expansion
Ivory Dragon Expansion
Red Witches Expansion

Thanks

 Original Timmy wrote:
Ive been out the loop for a while and i have no idea where we are at in the project apart from the Gamblers Chests is getting sent out soon.

Can someone please tell me which of the following we are still waiting on and possibly an ETA on them.

Hard Plastic Game Board


Thanks

This is the only one I know has been talked about recently basically it's in pre-production and was harder to design then expected but it's pretty far along now. I think we're suppose to see test casts later this year.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 aku-chan wrote:
I know I complain a lot about how Kingdom Death does things, but I am super grateful that they let you spoil yourself on the contents of the Birthday Gift if you wanted to.
Would've been massively disappointed to spend $60 on that.

Ya. I'm glad they spoiled too.

 Original Timmy wrote:

Can someone please tell me which of the following we are still waiting on and possibly an ETA on them.

Satan
Annonymous Survivor
Hard Plastic Game Board
Campaigns of Death
Death Armor Expansion
First Hero Expansion
Ivory Dragon Expansion
Red Witches Expansion

Of the items on your list, I believe Satan is the only one which has delivered. The rest are still being worked on.

Monkeysloth wrote:

 Original Timmy wrote:
Ive been out the loop for a while and i have no idea where we are at in the project apart from the Gamblers Chests is getting sent out soon.

Can someone please tell me which of the following we are still waiting on and possibly an ETA on them.

Hard Plastic Game Board


Thanks

This is the only one I know has been talked about recently basically it's in pre-production and was harder to design then expected but it's pretty far along now. I think we're suppose to see test casts later this year.

youwashock wrote:

 Original Timmy wrote:

Can someone please tell me which of the following we are still waiting on and possibly an ETA on them.

Satan
Annonymous Survivor
Hard Plastic Game Board
Campaigns of Death
Death Armor Expansion
First Hero Expansion
Ivory Dragon Expansion
Red Witches Expansion

Of the items on your list, I believe Satan is the only one which has delivered. The rest are still being worked on.

Ok thanks, i better send them a message about Satan as ive not received him, the last thing i got was wave 1 items. Is it best to do a support ticket via his website or send an KS message?

WOW thats still a lot of items left to do then, the rate we are going, we will celebrate the 10th anniversary of the KS before he completes everything at this pace, KS ran in 2016 and we are only 3 years off 2026, so its not as daft as it sounds lol.

Also $39 shipping for me too, to the UK, which is a lot less than i was expecting it to be for the GC.

this is the most recent status he's posted. It doesn't include the showdown board or anything that's been delivered or about to be delivered.

He's also posted that almost every mini is finished and most of what's left to be done (probably sculpts only) is the game development and there were be a post later this year about what they're doing to address how long the project has taken while still keeping the quality Poots wants.

Here is a quick and honest review of the kickstarter projects:

Black Knight - 99%
Frogdog - 98%
Campaigns of Death - 70%
Screaming God Expansion - 75%
Oblivion Mosquito - 60%
Nightmare Ram - 60%
Pariah Expansion - 70%
Red Witches Expansion - 60%
Gryphon - 30%
Honeycomb Weaver Expansion - 40%
Mountain Man - Inverted Mountain Campaign - 30%
Abyssal Woods Campaign - 20%
First Hero - 60%
Silver City - 70%
Ivory Dragon Expansion - 20%
Pathfinders of Death - 50%
Wanderer - Lantern Year 3 Candy & Cola - 50%
Wanderer - Goth Amy - 50%
Wanderer - Hyperlight Drifter - 50%
Wanderer - Aeneas - 40%
Promos of Death - 25%
False Messengers - 35%
Super Survivors - 20%
Death Armor Expansion - 25%

 Monkeysloth wrote:
this is the most recent status he's posted. It doesn't include the showdown board or anything that's been delivered or about to be delivered.

He's also posted that almost every mini is finished and most of what's left to be done (probably sculpts only) is the game development and there were be a post later this year about what they're doing to address how long the project has taken while still keeping the quality Poots wants.

Here is a quick and honest review of the kickstarter projects:

Black Knight - 99%
Frogdog - 98%
Campaigns of Death - 70%
Screaming God Expansion - 75%
Oblivion Mosquito - 60%
Nightmare Ram - 60%
Pariah Expansion - 70%
Red Witches Expansion - 60%
Gryphon - 30%
Honeycomb Weaver Expansion - 40%
Mountain Man - Inverted Mountain Campaign - 30%
Abyssal Woods Campaign - 20%
First Hero - 60%
Silver City - 70%
Ivory Dragon Expansion - 20%
Pathfinders of Death - 50%
Wanderer - Lantern Year 3 Candy & Cola - 50%
Wanderer - Goth Amy - 50%
Wanderer - Hyperlight Drifter - 50%
Wanderer - Aeneas - 40%
Promos of Death - 25%
False Messengers - 35%
Super Survivors - 20%
Death Armor Expansion - 25%

Thanks that is very handy, i noticed the "Anonymous Survivor" is not listed, has it been renamed or something?

 ced1106 wrote:
Gambler's Chest shipping.: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/poots/kingdom-death-monster-15/posts/3858154
USA: $39.

Steve and Sixth posted model assembly instructions:

"The list, as found by the members of the Lantern's Reign Discord (sorry to Adam is this isn't meant to be public yet, but it's community knowledge-collection), is;

--SNIP--

I noticed that there are "Silence" models in the build list as well and I've not seen them before? Are they not included in the GC?

Silence was a pair of male and female survivors with the gender swap belt.

They were originally a Black Friday set, but may have shown up during Gen Con sales.

I love that my painted ones here on Dakka are one of the first things that show up if you search for them on Google!

My Gambler chest shipped. 28 pounds and arriving early next week. That's a bit earlier then planned as I thought it would be post Gencon.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
My Gambler chest shipped. 28 pounds and arriving early next week. That's a bit earlier then planned as I thought it would be post Gencon.

I've received nothing since the email to update my address. :/

 Breotan wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
My Gambler chest shipped. 28 pounds and arriving early next week. That's a bit earlier then planned as I thought it would be post Gencon.

I've received nothing since the email to update my address. :/

Did you get the notification/email to make sure your payment info was correct in the PM for the shipping cost? Plus I wouldn't be surprised if they're going by backer number or pledge level as I have one of the super early bird lantern pledges.

Also some people on the east coast have already gotten their shipment so things have been going on for a bit already.

I've just had a shipping notice for the crossover Possesed Twlilight Knight that the took over the manufacture from Ninja Division so those are going out now too

 Breotan wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
My Gambler chest shipped. 28 pounds and arriving early next week. That's a bit earlier then planned as I thought it would be post Gencon.

I've received nothing since the email to update my address. :/

Not sure if it helps you Breotan, but I got my tracking notification today, am out towards your neck of the woods, got the Black Friday Gambler's Lantern pledge and am backer 626 (should of waited 40 more backers...).

I had nothing in my emails beyond the initial one for shipping charge, and mine arrived today. no idea what backer # i am.
Its a damn nesting doll of boxes in boxes, so i haven't taken a chance to look at all the content as of yet, but it is a heavy beast to be sure

No emails or anything aside from paying the shipping and it showed up the other day. Huge box - crazy - its a bit overwhelming lol (Midwest USA, backer # around 1600...)

I should note that I have Fedex delivery notifications setup so I get an email as soon as a label is created for Fedex (from fedex directly) for my address before the sender usually notifies me.

I did get something from Backerkit several days after the Fexed notification but not one from KD themselves.

Okay, this was the hint on FB. The backerkit may have your shipment listed, along with a tracking number even if you haven't been notified via email. I saw my shipment there and the tracking info said delivery was set for Monday er, make that Wednesday. Looks like it slipped a few days.

Atnas build guide warning

Got notification in Australia about 2 days before the actual GC showed up yesterday.

I made the mistake of assuming that I could carry it the 10 minute walk from the post office to my flat . Turns out it's heavier than the 6yo child I didn't have when I backed this

Yep. Heavy. I opened the box on my driveway. There's an inner box you then open for the the miniatures box and the game box. Made two separate trips.

Hundreds of dollars for miniatures I'll never get around to assemble for a game that I'll never get around to playing to be stored in space I'll never find.

BUT ITS MINE.

 ced1106 wrote:


Hundreds of dollars for miniatures I'll never get around to assemble for a game that I'll never get around to playing to be stored in space I'll never find.

Oof. You perfectly described why I gave up on the hobby.

Probably been asked/posted a dozen times already, but has anyone made a relatively up to date "collection manager" type utility for this? Occurred to me as I was checking out my purchase for todays sale that I am starting to lose track of what I have and don't have.

there's this https://kdm-collector.com/models but i've no idea how complete it is

BGG has a good list of released stuff: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2359740/master-list-released-game-content-promos

Unrelated but from the latest updated - not in the least bit surprised Poots has decided to be one of the few people to carry on working with Quackalope, a content creator who has had some very recent public issues with conflicts of interest.

I'm not sure Poots is even aware of those issues, he's a bit "checked out" on events in the broader game space

Great googly moogly, that Butcher's Bust is expensive!

Unless it's life-sized I guess.

Error.

Black Friday sale this year is actually a sale (rather than just a "sale" as in - we have some things to sell to you).

Core game the cheapest it's been in a while ($266 - about a 40% discount) and similar discounts on all the original expansions - individually or get the lot for $528 - was $800 last year's Black Friday "sale".

And if you already have everything, well you can spend $130 on six small mins and three booklets, because yeah it's sensible for them to making new content and selling it at silly prices instead of finishing the KS

Yeah, apparently the campaigns of Death book has also grown from a book into a massive boxed set, but at least the end is finally in sight.

I think the Narcissistic Barbarians is the point where Kingdom Death stopped tiptoeing the line of self parody and sashayed over it.

They reopened the Backer Kit and it has some new content in it - available individually or all together (no discount).

Man, after waiting this long for the gambler's chest and still waiting for campaigns of death, I don't care how bloated this content is to justify its massive delays, I'm not happy that they're trying to sell me on compatibility. To be able to play the Sunstalker and Dragon King campaigns with fully updated rules for just those two models now looks like:

Core game ($420)
Gambler's Chest (advanced) ($400)
Campaigns of Death (1.6 update supposed to make this stuff compatible) (I think also $400?)
Dragon King ($175)
Sunstalker ($125)
$130 for these philosophy update cards
generally high shipping

...for about $1600 before generally high shipping prices, and I don't care how much bloat and added stuff there is, I think it's absurd to charge another $45 per campaign to make them compatible when we've been waiting more than half a decade to get them updated and compatible for this edition, and this isn't counting the 1.5 and 1.6 updates that are also about compatibility. Also, these are being sold before campaigns of death ships, which is supposed to be what makes these compatible.

No, I didn't get this stuff at retail, and no despite my interest in the new philosophies, I'm not going to spend another $150 or whatever with shipping on FOMO nonsense designed to make the game compatible when everything above hasn't already. Yuck. I wish this game weren't locked into this cycle of absurd bloat that gets subsidized by overpriced DLC...

I didn't read these new philosophies as being mandatory or anything. Just more content that can be slotted in if desired. Yeah, they're designed around existing content and the philosophies alone probably should have been in the already bloated campaign box.

I figured I was more interested in the figures anyways, and knowing how this game goes with its bloat, I figure if I plunk down for them now I'm sure I'll get my money's worth down the line.

I'm happy I held off on getting the newest Echoes of Death as it was half price this sale. Can't complain about that.

I wanted those naked armor kits by themselves rather than bundled with the Goblin stuff. One of those looks to be enough and there's no telling when I'd get around to painting it, versus I would totally get those survivors done.

Will say it again, he really needs someone to reign him in and keep him on target, he is giving off the same vibes as say, Michael Cimino, not wanting to compromise on vision and artistry, cost and consequences be damned. I do wonder how well the company is doing this far down the line.

But I doubt he cares, or even listens for that matter. He put out an email address aeons ago where he promised to listen to feedback and get back to you on that. Never heard anything back from anyone on my questions, I guess they just set it up as a place for people to dump their grievances and complaints.

But wahey, campaigns of death has grown into a massive expansion, we got that for $50,- and bloody hell, finally a render of the Hyper Light Drifter mini, you know when that game was still hot? At this point, KDM has long died in our gaming group hehe.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I didn't read these new philosophies as being mandatory or anything. Just more content that can be slotted in if desired.

The Gambler's Chest goes out of its way to specify that the philosophy system is basically incompatible with the dragon campaign. I don't know how else to read a dragon campaign philosophy sold on its own than presumably the thing that makes it compatible with the philosophy system, that exists outside the campaigns of death which was sold as the thing that would make the old expansions compatible with the core and advanced rules (without nearly so much emphasis on new campaign bosses).

 BrookM wrote:
Will say it again, he really needs someone to reign him in and keep him on target, he is giving off the same vibes as say, Michael Cimino, not wanting to compromise on vision and artistry, cost and consequences be damned. I do wonder how well the company is doing this far down the line.

It's an interesting shift from "we've made some new philosophies so now we're going to include those and six new minis in Campaigns of Death" to "we've made some new philosophies and you can buy them for a huge amount of money".

It's also the first time we've seen stuff on Black Friday cost less money that it did on the previous Black Friday.

I think the reality is the Kickstarter money is long gone, the last of it used printing the Gambler's Chest, and they're on the hook for so much content in "Wave 4" that they can't fund. The company is entirely dependent on it's ongoing income which I think has worked okay to this point - with the tons and tons of promos and aesthetic minis and dice sets bringing in regular income, along with the annual Black Friday re-opening of the pledge manager to get people to put more money down.

But this year has seen a definite shift. It's the first time we've seen real gameplay content made and sold separately (the new philosophies) - which to me reads as a way to get more money out of gameplay completionists who pledge a couple of grand so many years ago and thought they'd get everything.
Then next to that you have an actual discount on the main game and the old expansions. Significant discounts as well. It's the first time I think maybe ever, that stuff has been cheaper on a Black Friday than it was the previous Black Friday.

It definitely reads to me as a way to trying to bring in additional revenue.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I wanted those naked armor kits by themselves rather than bundled with the Goblin stuff. One of those looks to be enough and there's no telling when I'd get around to painting it, versus I would totally get those survivors done.

Yeah, the mystery box was a bit of a weird one this year.
Still picked one up but I would've preferred another armour kit or two (Like my precious Mushroom Dudes, I do not want to have to buy an entire Campaigns of Death set just for the minis) over the Goblin Bird.

I was kind of thinking similarly about the new philosophies, but it's not like they aren't making bank any time they release a new figure or two.

I would have happily opened up my wallet for access to any new naked sprues a la carte. More Crimson Crocs and King sets for sure, nevermind anything unreleased.

Just got a nice email from KDM that I'm getting charged 36$ for the shipping of a single expansion (the Black Knight), with apparently no real plan from Poots and team to properly package future content in waves to limit shipping costs to backer. To say that I'm angry is an understatement, and I'm very close to cancelling what I've left. I've ordered 21 expansions in what was supposed to be Wave 4, with a listed combined shipping cost of $15 + $3x expansion (so 78$ total) I'm now looking at over 750$ in shipping charges.

CorwinB wrote:
Just got a nice email from KDM that I'm getting charged 36$ for the shipping of a single expansion (the Black Knight), with apparently no real plan from Poots and team to properly package future content in waves to limit shipping costs to backer. To say that I'm angry is an understatement, and I'm very close to cancelling what I've left. I've ordered 21 expansions in what was supposed to be Wave 4, with a listed combined shipping cost of $15 + $3x expansion (so 78$ total) I'm now looking at over 750$ in shipping charges.

I got this too but I don't see anything in Backerkit saying I need to pay more so I'm not sure what's going on.

I had a 20 dollar payment waiting for me, but I would imagine that's due to me being in the states as opposed to Europe.

I'm all for getting this stuff sooner rather than later, but I'm also in the camp of wanting to let some of the expansions ship together instead of getting constant stream of shipping costs.

Due to the large setup, large amount of components and difficulty to get multiple players in one sitting, for me KD: Monster has sat idle. After years and years of waiting for the Lantern box, hoping maybe it would be reignite the interest. The huge amount of components in that 'expansion' just made it a chore.

At this point, I'd just play a Kingdom Death Video Game, think X-Com but with Settlement mechanics.

Yeah, the Gambler's Chest was just, like, a ton of setup. I think my first settlement phase took like 4 hours and was full of writing and then erasing stuff. We got through 6 game years before a new type of random even added an hour to one of our sessions, meaning we couldn't finish it, and then it sat out for a while, until we needed the table for other stuff.

What's so farcical about the whole thing is that even the digital version, from what I understand, is not automated, so it doesn't even avoid the mechanical chore.

I'm honestly vaguely enthusiastic about the Black Knight as both one of my favorite designs and something that comes with a mini-campaign that will hopefully avoid the worst of the Gambler's Chest sprawling bookkeeping slog, but I'm definitely not even up to "cautiously optimistic" at this point.

The idea that this might take another three years to finish delivering, which with the benefit of hindsight may be a bit optimistic, is a little daunting. The proposed "system" of bundling things until you feel like paying for shipping sounds like a logistical nightmare. I love the models, but after the Gambler's Chest arrived with the usual lack of instructions or even a list of contents, I have not been able to muster the effort to even try to figure out what is what after the long wait. Maybe entering the GC painting comp will get things going.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

CorwinB wrote:
Just got a nice email from KDM that I'm getting charged 36$ for the shipping of a single expansion (the Black Knight), with apparently no real plan from Poots and team to properly package future content in waves to limit shipping costs to backer. To say that I'm angry is an understatement, and I'm very close to cancelling what I've left. I've ordered 21 expansions in what was supposed to be Wave 4, with a listed combined shipping cost of $15 + $3x expansion (so 78$ total) I'm now looking at over 750$ in shipping charges.

I got this too but I don't see anything in Backerkit saying I need to pay more so I'm not sure what's going on.

It says in the e-mail "If your Black Knight is part of a bundle which included shipping at the time of purchase, there should be no additional charge appearing on your pledge. If your address is correct and locked, just sit tight and get excited!" won't be charged postage, so presumably that's the difference

Mine sadly, did not

Having a quick look through the Kickstarter comment section, it sounds like they will put aside your Black Knight set to send with the Frogdog one, if you reach out to them and request it.

Not entirely sure this won't just cause more problems later on, but it is an option.

 youwashock wrote:
The idea that this might take another three years to finish delivering, which with the benefit of hindsight may be a bit optimistic, is a little daunting.

IMO theres' no might about it, this is what I'm still waiting on...

Wave 4
Hard Plastic Game Board - In Production
Campaigns of Death - 70% Complete
First Hero Expansion - 60% Complete
Red Witches Expansion - 60% Complete
Death Armor Expansion - 25% Complete
Ivory Dragon Expansion - 20% Complete
Anonymous Survivor - ??? Complete

Those are only a fraction of the Xpacs Poots need to produce and deliver. I have been saying to my mates for the last few years, that this KS will be a 10+ year wait for everything!

After a 6+ year wait, I got fed up with waiting and sold my base game about 12-18 months ago and sold the GC when I received that. I've got the Satan Xpac NIB to list on Ebay at some point and that is where everything else will end up when I finally receive them. The wait certainly sucks for anyone who is still interested in it all!

Unless they start bundling up some of them I can easily see it be ten years from now until we see Wave 4 finished.

Someone mentioned there are 21 expansions left. They'd need to release them at a rate of 4 every year, one a quarter, to even get them all out in five years. And that feels massively optimistic to me. I think a rate of two expansions a year is more likely.

Unfortunately while it's good people are finally getting something, it also massively takes the pressure off them to actually finish everything. Because they no longer have to finish everything before they can start what they have finished.

Did the Kickstarter had any dates goals info etc? A decade seems beyond ridiculous.

deano2099 wrote:Unless they start bundling up some of them I can easily see it be ten years from now until we see Wave 4 finished.

Someone mentioned there are 21 expansions left. They'd need to release them at a rate of 4 every year, one a quarter, to even get them all out in five years. And that feels massively optimistic to me. I think a rate of two expansions a year is more likely.

Unfortunately while it's good people are finally getting something, it also massively takes the pressure off them to actually finish everything. Because they no longer have to finish everything before they can start what they have finished.

21, That's a hell of a lot left to do!

NAVARRO wrote:Did the Kickstarter had any dates goals info etc? A decade seems beyond ridiculous.

Original delivery date was Dec 2020 and it ran from Nov 25 2016 - Jan 7 2017 (43 days).

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/poots/kingdom-death-monster-15/description

 NAVARRO wrote:
Did the Kickstarter had any dates goals info etc? A decade seems beyond ridiculous.

Wave 1 - Estimated Delivery Summer 2017 Core Game / 1.5 Update Pack
Core game reprint

Wave 2 - Estimated Delivery Winter 2017 (Still hoping for Summer 2017)
Existing expansions reprint

Wave 3 - Estimated Delivery Spring 2018
Gambler's Box, Promo and cross-over figures

Wave 4 - Estimated Delivery Spring 2019
New Expansions

Wave 5 & Beyond - Estimated Delivery Winter 2020
Anything new added in the campaign

At the end of last year, seven years on from the campaign, they finally delivered (most) of wave 3, which was the first actual new content (if you don't count the few extra bits in the reprinted core box). They never actually added anything to Wave 5, all the remaining stuff was tagged as "Wave 4".

Now of course, most people getting into this had seen what had happened in the first campaign and knew that solid timescales were not something the team were good at. I think we all thought well, we can probably add on a year or two. Some of us were brave enough to say "yeah, maybe double those estimates, it'll probably take them six years to deliver all that, not three". And we'd get stick for that as yeah, they are bad but not that bad, even for a worse-case scenario. But not of us really expected, seven years on, for them to have only delivered one new product.

The weird thing is, many people (including me to some extent) have been thinking "yeah, but we got a good deal on the campaign, so even if it's really late, it'll be worth it" - but if it's going to cost $30+ to have every expansion shipped to you... that's approaching 70-80% of what people spent on the campaign to start with. So the value argument starts to vanish too.

Now of course, most people getting into this had seen what had happened in the first campaign and knew that solid timescales were not something the team were good at. I think we all thought well, we can probably add on a year or two. Some of us were brave enough to say "yeah, maybe double those estimates, it'll probably take them six years to deliver all that, not three". And we'd get stick for that as yeah, they are bad but not that bad, even for a worse-case scenario. But not of us really expected, seven years on, for them to have only delivered one new product.

This is one of the things that irks me with the white knights doing their best to defend Poots & KDM in forums, KS comments... "Oh, you should have been expecting this, everyone knows Poots is not good with guidelines, look at the first KS.". But even the most pessimistic estimations, based on the first KS delivering late, were beaten by Poots unbelievable scope creep (sorry ,"vision") and self-indulgence for the Gambler's Chest

Yeah - I love the art and vibe of Kingdom Death - but as a company? They are beyond #!@ked.

I got my pledge refunded like two years ago and am very glad I did.

> "Oh, you should have been expecting this, everyone knows Poots is not good with guidelines, look at the first KS.". But even the most pessimistic estimations, based on the first KS delivering late, were beaten by Poots unbelievable scope creep (sorry ,"vision" and self-indulgence for the Gambler's Chest

Well, really, you SHOULD expect all of this, given the Lantern's Whatever snafu and pages of dissatisfaction on Dakka. There's no reason why a KS creator would change their spots when they've funded their project.(Hi, Gamezone!

For some KS creators, retail is an alternative. I regularly pass on boardgame KS, if I think the game or something similar to appear retail. You can already buy KDM stuff from their webstore, so if you didn't want to wait on your prepayment (and the ever-present risk of a KS project going belly up), you wait for retail. The prices would be higher, but it's not like that's unexpected, either.

As a min/max'er and someone who has too many games in the queue, I went with the base + Gambler's Chest + update pack. While I don't have "everything", I have the most content for a good price, and am done with KDM, unless he runs another KS in ten or twenty years.

Not sure why he writes this stuff on a comment section that barely gets visitors these days, instead of putting out an e-mail or KS update, but here's the latest word from Poots on fulfilment of the remaining expansions:-

General Kickstarter Fulfillment Update

We are planning on finishing this kickstarter over the course of the next 3 years, with a total of 4 - 6 more rounds of shipping.

We hear and understand the tension point that increased shipping rates (due to an ever changing and challenging climate of logistics and global supply chains issues) and are working towards ways we can ease this in the future.

Thank you in advance for your understanding.

Highly sceptical of a 3 year timeline, unless most of these expansions are a lot more finished than previously indicated.

Holy gak, 3 more years!???

I don't have a dog in this fight, but Kingdom Death really feels like a pyramid scheme at this point.

Three years? Is he sculpting each and every model by hand individually?

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
I don't have a dog in this fight, but Kingdom Death really feels like a pyramid scheme at this point.

Three years? Is he sculpting each and every model by hand individually?

Haha, same. I check this thread out of morbid fascination, is there even a real game to play? The whole thing seems like a scam people complain about.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
I don't have a dog in this fight, but Kingdom Death really feels like a pyramid scheme at this point.

Three years? Is he sculpting each and every model by hand individually?

Haha, same. I check this thread out of morbid fascination, is there even a real game to play? The whole thing seems like a scam people complain about.

Yeah, I didn't buy into anything either. The thread rising from the dead every couple months to remind me I made the right choice has been fun. Morbid fascination. Really shows how much crap people will take if you are effective at selling hopium.

I think thicc booby gal models play into it to a degree as well. Scammers traditionally love to play with people's thirst(s)

Schmapdi wrote:
I got my pledge refunded like two years ago and am very glad I did.

So did I, but they still send me the gamblers chest. And apparently the black knight expansion as well. For paying just shipping it seems like a good deal

It's not a scam. Scammers don't actually make something huge like the Gambler's Chest and send it out. They've past the point where it was sensible to run off with the money.

It's just massive incompetence, coupled with a community so rabid that they genuinely believe their approach is okay. It's why it's so interesting.

MoD_Legion wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
I got my pledge refunded like two years ago and am very glad I did.

So did I, but they still send me the gamblers chest. And apparently the black knight expansion as well. For paying just shipping it seems like a good deal

Same here, was pretty surprised when I got the Gamblers Chest shipping notification.

Sounds like the best deal in modern gaming! I'd be ok with waiting years if I'm only paying for shipping when it happens.

 ImAGeek wrote:

MoD_Legion wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
I got my pledge refunded like two years ago and am very glad I did.

So did I, but they still send me the gamblers chest. And apparently the black knight expansion as well. For paying just shipping it seems like a good deal

Same here, was pretty surprised when I got the Gamblers Chest shipping notification.

Dang!
I gave them a heads up when they tried to send me a Gamblers Chest, I figured they'd catch on anyways and didn't want a whole thing with getting the shipping refunded, seems like I should've just stayed quiet.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Holy gak, 3 more years!???

3 more years announced by Poots = my great-grand children may be receiving this or not. Let's not forget the initially announced plan was an absolute worst case of 2020 for delivery of everything. I plan to stick up to Campaigns of Death and then ask for a refund of what's left of Wave 4.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
I don't have a dog in this fight, but Kingdom Death really feels like a pyramid scheme at this point.

Three years? Is he sculpting each and every model by hand individually?

Haha, same. I check this thread out of morbid fascination, is there even a real game to play? The whole thing seems like a scam people complain about.

There is actually a game at the centre of all of it. Someone in my regular group backed it and we played it a grand total of once.

It is one of those sort of long-form campaign games that's a pain to organize and get everyone in on. If you don't make it the thing you are playing exclusively, then it is kind of a bust. Given that only one person in the group playing is likely to actually own the thing it can be tough to actually get a group to buy-in on the concept of playing a psycho-sexual horror village building/monster-hunting boardgame where only one person in the group is likely to even remember what is going on from session to session. The rest of the group ends up just being along for the ride and that gets old quick.

It is definitely one of those things he regrets backing because of that (plus the wait times). It's one of those old-school KS super-projects that used to be all the rage writ large(r). It was huge, laden with bonuses and scope creep, it was such a good deal... that will sit in a corner gathering dust for most of the people that backed it. Everything trickled out so slowly that most people were done with the actual game part before most of it even got released.

Not a scam, but an abject lesson in why project management is an important skill and why KS backers need to beware of highly successful KS campaigns. Even when they succeed and deliver, there is an even chance that you saved money on a bunch of plastic you end up having no use for.

I'm glad I learned my lesson on these things after only a couple of mistakes, and those were ones that all fully delivered in a much more reasonable time-frame than KD:M.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
I don't have a dog in this fight, but Kingdom Death really feels like a pyramid scheme at this point.

Three years? Is he sculpting each and every model by hand individually?

Haha, same. I check this thread out of morbid fascination, is there even a real game to play? The whole thing seems like a scam people complain about.

I've got the base game (which is quite well designed and a lot of fun), but didn't have the money to buy into the expansions.

From what I've seen by following this over the years, is it's kinda like the old Blizzard model (before WoW), nothing gets sent out until it's perfect, unfortunately, with Kickstarter, most people are paying advance for something that will be delayed for many years because of this. This is somewhat offset by the fact that if you get in at the beginning, you're paying for the original idea, and you end up getting WAY more than you bargained for without having to pay the higher prices that come along later with the increase in scope. The downside is that you have to wait literal years to get your game.

I think that by now, most people are aware that this is the way KDM works and just decide to support or not based off that.

All that being said, the base game is still a lot of fun and can be purchased off the KDM store, which I do highly recommend, it's one of my favourite games of all time (second only to Twilight Imperium). I haven't gotten any expansions yet as they are rather pricey, but I hope to one day.

Got the earlier notice to pay shipping for the Black Knight. Paid the shipping. Just got a shipping notice that not just the Black Knight is on the way, but several other kits from this wave are on the way, too.

Edit: just checked the email, and it says one of the things that was shipped is the Gambler's Chest? But I already got that. Guess I'll see what I get when the package gets here later this week.

 Ronin_eX wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
I don't have a dog in this fight, but Kingdom Death really feels like a pyramid scheme at this point.

Three years? Is he sculpting each and every model by hand individually?

Haha, same. I check this thread out of morbid fascination, is there even a real game to play? The whole thing seems like a scam people complain about.

There is actually a game at the centre of all of it. Someone in my regular group backed it and we played it a grand total of once.

It is one of those sort of long-form campaign games that's a pain to organize and get everyone in on. If you don't make it the thing you are playing exclusively, then it is kind of a bust. Given that only one person in the group playing is likely to actually own the thing it can be tough to actually get a group to buy-in on the concept of playing a psycho-sexual horror village building/monster-hunting boardgame where only one person in the group is likely to even remember what is going on from session to session. The rest of the group ends up just being along for the ride and that gets old quick.

It is definitely one of those things he regrets backing because of that (plus the wait times). It's one of those old-school KS super-projects that used to be all the rage writ large(r). It was huge, laden with bonuses and scope creep, it was such a good deal... that will sit in a corner gathering dust for most of the people that backed it. Everything trickled out so slowly that most people were done with the actual game part before most of it even got released.

Not a scam, but an abject lesson in why project management is an important skill and why KS backers need to beware of highly successful KS campaigns. Even when they succeed and deliver, there is an even chance that you saved money on a bunch of plastic you end up having no use for.

I'm glad I learned my lesson on these things after only a couple of mistakes, and those were ones that all fully delivered in a much more reasonable time-frame than KD:M.

So very, very well said!

A cautionary tale indeed.

It is a niche within a niche product to be sure - I've got a lot, never had a chance to open, play, etc. that I'd love to sell, but I don't think there's an actual market for it...

Personally I hope that they don't do another kickstarter ever again. They don't need to. Their monthly release cadence probably makes them more than enough money to fund operations and continued development.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Personally I hope that they don't do another kickstarter ever again. They don't need to. Their monthly release cadence probably makes them more than enough money to fund operations and continued development.

I think that would be a problem for our grandchildren to resolve.

 NAVARRO wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Personally I hope that they don't do another kickstarter ever again. They don't need to. Their monthly release cadence probably makes them more than enough money to fund operations and continued development.

I think that would be a problem for our grandchildren to resolve.

“A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit.”

Black Knight arrived today. Didn't even get a dispatch notification.

Mine showed up too, which was nice

I don't think future KS projects would ever be as successful or even fund after these ones.

You say that, but theres plenty of idiots out there that would still throw more money at Poots if he were to run another campaign, even knowing how poorly managed this campaign has been. I know, because I'm one of them.

chaos0xomega wrote:
You say that, but theres plenty of idiots out there that would still throw more money at Poots if he were to run another campaign, even knowing how poorly managed this campaign has been. I know, because I'm one of them.

Brilliant this sums up perfectly all my engagement with the miniature world Makes no sense but we do it everyday.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Personally I hope that they don't do another kickstarter ever again. They don't need to. Their monthly release cadence probably makes them more than enough money to fund operations and continued development.

Of course they won't do a Kickstarter. All the big boardgames are doing Gamefound now.

Loopstah wrote:
Black Knight arrived today. Didn't even get a dispatch notification.

Mine too, was pretty surprised.

chaos0xomega wrote:
You say that, but theres plenty of idiots out there that would still throw more money at Poots if he were to run another campaign, even knowing how poorly managed this campaign has been. I know, because I'm one of them.

Similar to how everyone is frothing at the mouth for Legion Imperialis or The Old World despite GW doing the worst possible job of providing stock of miniatures. If you are into it, you're into it and damn the wait or cost.

Sign me up as another idiot.

Kingdom Death was the first, best, and greatest valued kickstarted I ever did. The second campaign as well.

My black knight shows up this weekend, just got started on painting Xell, and we have the new Butcher vignette about to drop in a matter of hours.

I'll be eating good for Kingdom Death content for a good while longer it seems.

Loopstah wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
You say that, but theres plenty of idiots out there that would still throw more money at Poots if he were to run another campaign, even knowing how poorly managed this campaign has been. I know, because I'm one of them.

Similar to how everyone is frothing at the mouth for Legion Imperialis or The Old World despite GW doing the worst possible job of providing stock of miniatures. If you are into it, you're into it and damn the wait or cost.

There's a difference between not being able to keep up with demand and not being able to keep up with your plan.

 NAVARRO wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
You say that, but theres plenty of idiots out there that would still throw more money at Poots if he were to run another campaign, even knowing how poorly managed this campaign has been. I know, because I'm one of them.

Brilliant this sums up perfectly all my engagement with the miniature world Makes no sense but we do it everyday.

Exactly. And I still have Reaper Bones I mini's to paint, haven't entirely removed the shrinkwrap from KDM, and still have D&L I boxes to paint.

And for games, I have a ton of games, not to mention campaigns untouched. I was going to replay some solo miniatures games (because I get to play with the mini's I painted!), then Gloomhaven: Crimson Scales came along, and now I'll be playing that for months, and am painting a batch of miniatures for that game.

Yeah, I get it that KDM is taking forever. But I'll White Knight that you should have seen that coming, with and entire Dakka thread of how Poots handled that Lantern whatever expansion. And I'll Grey Knight (: that I only went for the base game and Gambler's Chest, because that was the min/max for both $$$ and time.

Let's see... Gloomhaven miniatures coming in 2026 or later. I think I know of a game I can paint and play while waiting for those mini's to come in...

A giant Kingdom Death box just showed up at my door - the Frog Dog expansion, Role Survivors, a T-Shirt and the truly ludicrous modular board.

Genuinely unsure if that's everything or if there is more to come. I guess I should go back and figure out what I actually ordered back in, what, 2017?

At this point Kingdom Death is like a weird, long-running joke I played on myself many years ago.

there's masses more to come (if you ordered it)

Are they shipping stuff out? Did they send an email asking for shipping?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Are they shipping stuff out? Did they send an email asking for shipping?

14th of May.

 Baragash wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Are they shipping stuff out? Did they send an email asking for shipping?

14th of May.

Every now and again they will attempt to take the money via the registered card on Backerkit, when ever they try to collect the shipping and it doesnt go through, Backerkit will send an email saying its failed, i think you can manually go and pay it, im waiting until i get paid this week to sort mine out.

Next batch of stuff is about to start shipping

RED WITCHES EXPANSION
PARIAH EXPANSION
WANDERER GOTH
WANDERER CANDY + COLA
WANDERER DEATH DRIFTER
WANDERER AENEAS
FALSE MESSENGERS
PHILOSOPHIES OF DEATH: GATHERISM
PERCIVAL

you should have had an email to remind you to check your shipping address, and make sure you've got a live CC on backerkit if your expecting any of the above

Shipping charges begin collection on July 18th.
Rewards start shipping August 2025.
Rewards will take weeks to leave their warehouses, please be patient throughout the month of August. Tracking updates will be provided in waves as we receive them.

I love waiting nearly a decade for stuff and being charged hundreds of dollars of additional shipping.

I can't remember which Philosophies Of Death I'm waiting for, hopefully it's not Gatherism as I'm really short on money at the moment.

Paying $20 in shipping for a single model.. and of course they won't hold onto it and ship it later when they finally finish the rest of this absolute mess of a project..