Yeah, IIRC Adam actually stated he was moving it back to Q2 because while he *MIGHT* have been able to squeak in a Q1 shipment date he was concerned that pushing for that would cause issues and so to side-step that problem entirely he was just going to change to Q2. Now, he's maybe used up that buffer with some other issues, but Adam's Type A personality makes me doubtful there will be significant delays.
Might we see a "shipping starting in June and not finishing until August" where particular overseas backers don't get their stuff for months (see also: Reaper Bones One)? Maybe, but given his communication record thus far where delays are announced long before they're obvious to everyone anyway I'm not going to be doom-and-gloom. We'll see what we see in the May timeframe though.
Hmmm... I might be moving by then... I could end up having to send it to my parents house instead.
Dammit, Poots! Of all the things you could have done, you're going to make me actually go and visit my parents. There's a line, and you just crossed it!
Krinsath wrote: Yeah, IIRC Adam actually stated he was moving it back to Q2 because while he *MIGHT* have been able to squeak in a Q1 shipment date he was concerned that pushing for that would cause issues and so to side-step that problem entirely he was just going to change to Q2. Now, he's maybe used up that buffer with some other issues, but Adam's Type A personality makes me doubtful there will be significant delays.
Might we see a "shipping starting in June and not finishing until August" where particular overseas backers don't get their stuff for months (see also: Reaper Bones One)? Maybe, but given his communication record thus far where delays are announced long before they're obvious to everyone anyway I'm not going to be doom-and-gloom. We'll see what we see in the May timeframe though.
I'm certain shipping will take an age loads of backers, loads of different things to pack, many countries to send to
but that's just par for the course, and taking it slower and getting it right is something that certain other projects would be well advised to do
(I do hope he sends in reverse order of travel distance though if it all ends up shipping from the US as getting stuff to everybody at roughly the same time means less moaning and emails to deal with)
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Fafnir wrote: Hmmm... I might be moving by then... I could end up having to send it to my parents house instead.
Dammit, Poots! Of all the things you could have done, you're going to make me actually go and visit my parents. There's a line, and you just crossed it!
You can still change your address in the pledge manager
Fafnir wrote: Hmmm... I might be moving by then... I could end up having to send it to my parents house instead.
Dammit, Poots! Of all the things you could have done, you're going to make me actually go and visit my parents. There's a line, and you just crossed it!
Just hope your parents don't open the box. Visiting is bad enough, but doing it so that you can pick up a large case of plastic pin ups and penis monsters will be... awkward.
I can almost smell the coffee from the intervention now...
Wehrkind wrote: I can almost smell the coffee from the intervention now...
The voice of experience...
And Orlando, while the "far to near" shipping plan would certainly be the fair thing to do, I will play my "selfish git" card at this point since I want my shinies so I hope he sends it to US backers first because I'm a US backer. I would also support a "in order of money paid (including shipping) from most to least" model, as I'm pretty sure I'd be decently near the top there too. Heck I'd even drive up to NYC if there was a pick-up option. Visit some friends in the area, pick up a sizable box of boobs and penis monsters. You know, like ya do...
That completes my Twilight Knight collection (well it will if I ever receive the rest of them!) I've been waiting for the remastered version before buying it.
Pinups of Death - Hard Plastic
The original pinups remastered!
I am thrilled to introduce the very first Kingdom Death hard plastic kit. As a big thank you to our fans we have decided to launch the kit at an optional discount for the first 48 hours.
Hard Plastic Pinup Collection
Packaged in a deluxe kraft wrapped box printed with original artwork by Lokman Lam. Each box contains remastered hard plastic versions of the first 8 pinups ever released by Kingdom Death and a matte black envelope with an art card for each pinup and a promo Kingdom Death: Monster settlement event card and gear card. Players of the upcoming game may optionally add these fun promo's to their campaign if their gaming group agrees.
A lot of love and care has gone into the translation process moving this figures into plastic. This includes a Brand new Pinup Forsaker and parts to create the popular variant Pinup Savior.
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and the Resin slender man (no cards/game rules)
White Speakers whisper stories of the walking water. An entity capable of making people vanish without a trace, like the water of an unwatched urn. It's motives inscrutable and it's description warping with each new telling. Little is known of the Slender Man as it leaves nothingness in it's wake.
If I bought those pinups I'd be afraid to put them together.
Then I'd be afraid to paint them.
I'm sure I wouldn't be able to do them justice.
Yet the greedy part of me would want to buy a set or two and just hold on to it for a bit to flip. Which would be the ultimate lesson in frustration of not being able to build those ladies.
I'm Phoenix is amazing, the plastic version is very close in detail to the original resin. It gives me great hope that the plastic Dragon King will share the same level of detail. Incidentally, I only recently realised its startling resemblance to the Dragon God boss in Demon's Souls.
I'm definitely going to pick up the plastic Pin up box set, I only want five out of the eight pin ups so I will probably sell the three I don't want on Feebay.
Every time I see a KD update in my mailbox, it re-energizes me towards KS. I forget that it's been so long since this one funded and don't care when it arrives; I just have faith this one is going to be awesome. Weird Jedi mind trick going on here.
I've never actually seen any of the pieces in the flesh and I know my painting won't do them justice yet, but went and bought a flower knight to get an idea of what I'm store for.
Adam said he'd got 3000 boxes of these pinups in so it's unlikely they'll have the same re-sale value as the resins (although with the bonus game content who knows)
New update from KS. Looks like everyone knows about the plastic pin-ups. The plastic Phoenix looks mind blowing. Really excited for this to ship.
Update #82 from Kingdom Death : Monster
Mar 11 2014
Marching in March!
Things are really starting to heat up here at the studio, despite the climates foolish attempt to thwart us with it's never ending cold. Be damned polar vortex!
Schedule ( Estimated Fulfillment start still Q2 2014 )
No updates at this time. Things are moving smoothly, planning for logistics, applying pressure to partners to maintain timelines. Next update should have the crucial information we have been waiting for.
Pledges Re-Opening
Let me just say thank you to all the people interested in more plastic via the kickstarter! We will re-open pledges but it has to wait until we have bandwidth to devote to your needs.
The Phoenix Story
This monster was hand sculpted by Jacques-Alexandre Gillois. We agreed not to rush the project to completion and slowly, it was crafted. An immense effort went into every stage of its design.
When the resin's finally arrived, I was shocked. It was truly gorgeous. I was nervous to even hold it! I knew it was something special and so I squirreled it away like a dark secret waiting to reveal it publicly for the first time during the kickstater.
The challenge of manufacturing this incredible sculpt was a major factor in bringing us together with our plastic manufacturer. We agreed that if we could capture 80% of what the original resin was, we would be happy.
And so we set out to work. The physical master was scanned, not once, but 3 times by various machines. And the cleanup process was nothing short of intense, changing many different hands and yes, I might have driven the factory a little bit crazy over my laundry lists of small changes and adjustments.
The last challenge was cutting the model so it can meet the rigid standards of hard plastic production. We wanted to make it as few pieces as possible, but retain its detail and majesty.
Last Thursday I received a large but lightweight package. Inside, plastic sprues and a bonus fully assembled phoenix. Put together by the boss of the factory himself! Yeah, he was that excited. We were shooting for 80%, but this is more like 97.9%. It's nearly an identical clone of its hand sculpted counterpart! Consider my mind blown. I knew we'd get some great looking hard plastic. But I didn't expect it to be this GOOD. In fact a second box arrived on friday with a 2nd assembled one from the bossman again!
I owe a tremendous round of thanks to the backers, the artists, the technicians and the factory for bringing this into reality. It looks amazing, I can barely believe it's hard plastic. In fact the original hand sculptor himself was blown away when I showed him! I have yammered on enough. Here are the photos:
The Lion, The Butcher and the Loin Cloth
Finally! The starting survivors! The number of play test hours these 4 brave little survivors has seen is staggering and the number of times they have died at the hands of both the Butcher and the White Lion... it just brings a beautiful tear to my eye!
I present to you dear backers, their plastic incarnations!
And yeah... We have made the White Lion much bigger then his original resin form!
Bwa hahaaha!
( and the butcher a tiny bit bigger too! )
Final Game Board
Here is the final game board. We decided to include some spots on the side for terrain cards to live and not clutter up the battle. A lot of thought went into this game board, and we had it printed many times in different colors and variations. I really wanted it to have a strong focal point and that trails off into darkness but for gameplay purposes we didn't want to lose the lines that delineate spaces. I am quite pleased with the final result! The print comes off a little purpleish in the photos, don't worry. It is not purple.
Everything looks great on it!
Rulebook Thumbnails
I am super duper anti-spoilers. So I apologize that you cannot read anything and this is a total tease, but here is a sample of some of the spreads that grace the rulebook! The rulebook... got really big! lol
I recall someone on the comment section asking about Spidicules?
Pinups of Death
On a totally separate timeline and with a budget outside of the funds raised from the kickstarter I can finally share a project with you all that was very important to KD:M.
The 8 original Kingdom Death Pinups. Although these were not featured or available during the kickstarter, we can thank them for carrying the project before the kickstarter and helping fund so very much of it. They have been lovingly remastered into hard plastic. This project is relevant to KD:M as it set some very important manufacturing benchmarks and helped establish our hand sculpt to hard plastic work flow. Basically we ran ourselves thru the gauntlet with these and used what we learned to improve the KD:M manufacturing process.
The release of the plastic pinup box will provide us with some crucial internal data on packaging and handling orders. This will benefit us once we do begin fulfillment of the kickstarter rewards. Basically, it will help us calculate how many extra hands to hire and what our workflow will be.
Although both the budget & timeline were outside of the domain of the KD:M kickstarter, it is true that without you backers I would have never gone to China and the really fantastic relationship that has sparked with our manufacturer would not have come to pass. As a way to say thank you, we have decided to reduce the price of the collection for a limited time in your honor.
If you are interested in checking it out, here is the direct link to the KDM store with more details.
Thank you
I just wanted to say it again. This opportunity has been amazing. The hard plastic sets have been amazing. The positive feedback from play testers has been amazing. All of you backers are amazing. How often do you really get to work as hard as you possibly can on something so very important to yourself? I honestly don't know. But I do know... its amazing!
Soon we will watch our survivors die terrible tragic deaths together!
That Pinup Plastics set is tempting - but I'm having trouble remembering the specifics on what was available in plastic during the campaign, what I ordered, and what is 'worth' getting if it is playable 'in game'!
Alpharius wrote: That Pinup Plastics set is tempting - but I'm having trouble remembering the specifics on what was available in plastic during the campaign, what I ordered, and what is 'worth' getting if it is playable 'in game'!
These pinups were not offered during the KS as plastic or resin
None of the box will be playable in game unless you use them as proxies, 3 are pinups with overlap with minis that could come with your KS order the (White Speaker and Twilight Knight and Forsaker)
The promo item is the 'Belt of Gender Swap'
The promo event is 'A Strange Spot' where a survivor returning from a hunt stumbles across something (roll on table you can't read here)
so if you're going game (or have all the resin pinups) only probably best to give it a miss
Alpharius wrote: That Pinup Plastics set is tempting - but I'm having trouble remembering the specifics on what was available in plastic during the campaign, what I ordered, and what is 'worth' getting if it is playable 'in game'!
Reading comprehension fail for me - these all all plastic versions of miniatures that were NOT available during the campaign!
EDIT:
Thanks Orlando - I just realized that myself, but your additional info is also very helpful!
As a thank you to our fans, the Pinups of Death will have an optional discount for the next 48 hours. Thank you so much for supporting us, we hope to bring you many more high quality offerings in the future!
Don't allow yourself to wait too long here, you might find you've lost out on 20% off.
Typical I wait ages for the remastered Twilight Knight Pin Up buy her and then a plastic version turns up 10 days later
Nice set I ordered one at the $80 price shipping is good at $15.75 as well (rather than the $16+ some companies charge for 1 mini ), I'll get stung for VAT on these but the discount should cover that.
The box set contents are looking really nice I'm glad I stayed with just plastic as they are really great models.
Small complaint and it's not aimed at Adam he had the resources and the means to get these done so fair play but Wargames Factory don't have the spare capacity to be producing these at this time with KD:M itself late and Mr. Justin from SWM suffering from further delays in manufacturing without any firm finish date WGF should really be prioritising other things.
I agree Grot, this KS game is very detailed... from the minis on down to the gameplay, art, etc. Poots has taken great care with this project. That's why I spent over $1500 on this, getting practically one of everything in plastic and resin!
You could use the 'not usable' pinups as other basic survivors until they get armor. I think that is what I will do with my plastic pinup set.
DaveC wrote: Typical I wait ages for the remastered Twilight Knight Pin Up buy her and then a plastic version turns up 10 days later
Nice set I ordered one at the $80 price shipping is good at $15.75 as well (rather than the $16+ some companies charge for 1 mini ), I'll get stung for VAT on these but the discount should cover that.
The box set contents are looking really nice I'm glad I stayed with just plastic as they are really great models.
Small complaint and it's not aimed at Adam he had the resources and the means to get these done so fair play but Wargames Factory don't have the spare capacity to be producing these at this time with KD:M itself late and Mr. Justin from SWM suffering from further delays in manufacturing without any firm finish date WGF should really be prioritising other things.
"Mr. Justin from SWM"? Tangential, but what is that, the only SWM that immediately springs to my mind is Star Wars Minis, which... is probably not what you meant.
Yep Secret Weapon, sorry forgot that SWM may not be clear to others. Basically WGF missed the deadline about a week or 2 ago for producing the tiles for the kickstarter and haven't been able to give a revised date (it's been speculated why and well this doesn't help) but that's a discussion for another thread I guess.
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Hulksmash wrote: That Phoenix is amazing! We get two of those right?
By the statements, it sounds like the pin ups were the test models to check how the production, packaging, and distribution would work. I imagine there have been in the works in the background since early in the project.
They've also restocked some resins and stuff in the KD store if you've haven't checked it, including the female game hunter and the Flower Knight.
I need to crunch some numbers to see how much I can throw at add ons when this reopens. I'm looking at anywhere between $90-$170 when he finally reopens it.
Hmm, sorely tempted by the pin-up box. But have waaay too much stuff already (not counting what I already have coming from the KD kickstarter.) They are pleasantly surprisingly affordable though. Which is great. One of the things that kept me from going whole hog during the KS was fear of what the retail prices/availability would be.
The new lion looks a little off, me thinks. Or at least not as nice as the old one.
And Is it me, or does that one starting survivor have no nipples? Seems odd for a game where genitalia are strewn about at every opportunity.
These really are looking astonishing - although it helps that the photographer seems to know how to photograph bare plastic incredibly well!
Being a 'late backer' on this has been increasingly painful as more and more about the project is revealed, and I know that I'll never be able to have any add-ons! We're still not sure if/how much of this will ever see retail release, right?
I might have to do some begging around Dakka when the pledge manager reopens, and see if I can at least snag the Lantern festival expansion or something ....
Schmapdi wrote: The new lion looks a little off, me thinks. Or at least not as nice as the old one.
And Is it me, or does that one starting survivor have no nipples? Seems odd for a game where genitalia are strewn about at every opportunity.
For the lion, remember it's not actually supposed to be a real lion. I myself have always gotten a 'statuesque' vibe (as in it looks regal, well-toned, static... not as in the excellent miniatures company).
And as for nipples, that survivor hasn't had any since the beginning. I appears as though she was always meant to cover that up. I remember thinking the same thing as I scrolled down the pics on the kickstarter KD:M page after making my initial pledge on that fateful day last year.
Bioptic wrote: These really are looking astonishing - although it helps that the photographer seems to know how to photograph bare plastic incredibly well!
Being a 'late backer' on this has been increasingly painful as more and more about the project is revealed, and I know that I'll never be able to have any add-ons! We're still not sure if/how much of this will ever see retail release, right?
Full (retail) release is the plan -- edit: KS promo/exclusives not withstanding. But with the slow and limited quantities of the resins before Adam launched KD:M, many of us are banking on a similar pace of retail product waves. I believe Mr. Poots himself has said that he doesn't want things just sitting around in a warehouse.
Also, Daaaayum. Went ahead and purchased the $80 Pinup box and since Adam was nice enough to give us a $20 discount, I was nice enough to spend it on a resin White Speaker Nico. The elation at long last being able to procure one, it is neat.
On the lion I like that it was made bigger but it looks like the proportions changed in the process so it will still fit the base the body on the original looks longer in proportion as does the face. But yeah it's not a "proper" lion in our real world understanding of it.
The original survivors are character pieces so I can understand them having a set look with integrated heads the unarmed kit will allow for the building of generic survivors.
Bioptic wrote: These really are looking astonishing - although it helps that the photographer seems to know how to photograph bare plastic incredibly well!
Being a 'late backer' on this has been increasingly painful as more and more about the project is revealed, and I know that I'll never be able to have any add-ons! We're still not sure if/how much of this will ever see retail release, right?
Full (retail) release is the plan -- edit: KS promo/exclusives not withstanding. But with the slow and limited quantities of the resins before Adam launched KD:M, many of us are banking on a similar pace of retail product waves. I believe Mr. Poots himself has said that he doesn't want things just sitting around in a warehouse.
Unless things have changed, I'm pretty sure Poots has specifically said he's hesitant to put KD:M out to retail. Full release on his website, sure (eventually, and assuming demand is high enough). But any retailer selling his product will have to follow strict guidelines on pricing and such. He's said in the past there will be absolutely no retail discounts allowed. Which makes sense. Kingdom Death has gotten where it is as a collector's edition company. Allowing models to be sold at 30% discount would ruin that image.
Bioptic wrote: These really are looking astonishing - although it helps that the photographer seems to know how to photograph bare plastic incredibly well!
Being a 'late backer' on this has been increasingly painful as more and more about the project is revealed, and I know that I'll never be able to have any add-ons! We're still not sure if/how much of this will ever see retail release, right?
Full (retail) release is the plan -- edit: KS promo/exclusives not withstanding. But with the slow and limited quantities of the resins before Adam launched KD:M, many of us are banking on a similar pace of retail product waves. I believe Mr. Poots himself has said that he doesn't want things just sitting around in a warehouse.
Unless things have changed, I'm pretty sure Poots has specifically said he's hesitant to put KD:M out to retail. Full release on his website, sure (eventually, and assuming demand is high enough). But any retailer selling his product will have to follow strict guidelines on pricing and such. He's said in the past there will be absolutely no retail discounts allowed. Which makes sense. Kingdom Death has gotten where it is as a collector's edition company. Allowing models to be sold at 30% discount would ruin that image.
And that's the part that worries me a bit! Even a company the size of Reaper doesn't have an official presence/supply chain in the UK, and their stuff is almost impossible to acquire as a result, outside of the Kickstarters. Having to order stuff direct from Poots/retailers in the US is going to get extremely expensive, extremely quickly (factoring in the imminent rise in US->EU shipping rates, taxes and handling fees). Obviously not his concern - he will have launched an extremely successful game regardless of future sales - but it will make it rather hard to buy expansions or recommend to friends.
The discount for the Pinups box has ended it didn't run for the full 48 hours in the end I reckon there's still another 2 hours based on the email time (unless it went up a few hours before the email)
DaveC wrote: The discount for the Pinups box has ended it didn't run for the full 48 hours in the end I reckon there's still another 2 hours based on the email time (unless it went up a few hours before the email)
General release with an initial run of 3,000 of which 70 remain wow that was popular! I understand now why mine hasn't shipped even though I ordered in the first hour they've had nearly 3000 to ship out it will give them good data for the real thing.
DaveC wrote: The discount for the Pinups box has ended it didn't run for the full 48 hours in the end I reckon there's still another 2 hours based on the email time (unless it went up a few hours before the email)
Maybe they ran out of stock on them?
Definitely wasn't out of stock I guess they just decided to end it early after seeing the demand.
DaveC wrote: General release with an initial run of 3,000 of which 70 remain wow that was popular! I understand now why mine hasn't shipped even though I ordered in the first hour they've had nearly 3000 to ship out it will give them good data for the real thing.
DaveC wrote: The discount for the Pinups box has ended it didn't run for the full 48 hours in the end I reckon there's still another 2 hours based on the email time (unless it went up a few hours before the email)
Maybe they ran out of stock on them?
Definitely wasn't out of stock I guess they just decided to end it early after seeing the demand.
Man, is KD stuff popular or what?
I guess now I know why mine hasn't shipped yet either!
I guess now I know why mine hasn't shipped yet either!
Almost 3000 units sold in less than 2 days?
It probably helped that they were on sale, and that they were models that weren't already a part of the KS. I would have bought a box myself, but I have to save my money to pay my taxes. Fortunately, though, the store page says they're an unlimited release, so I assume there will be another production run made.
I just received my Plastic Pin-up set and illuminated Lady. If this box set is the same quality that we'll be getting, the money I spent on this game is money well spent.
Just jumping in to clear up a quick misconception. The stock listing shows what is available of the units that are packed and ready to ship.
The boxes were made here in the states, in a box making facility I quite like, the cards were printed in the states, and the envelopes were made in the states.
We had to pack everything on site here, so only 1,500 of the full 3,000 were packed up and added to the store.
Also, I think were gonna add some painting tutorials for the pinups to the site for people to use.
Bit of news from Adam. The KD:M version of Candy and Cola are now going to be unlimited.
Kingdom Death wrote:We have modified our original agreement with Soda Pop Miniatures and now the Kingdom Death:Monster Candy & Cola crossover will be granted the same availability as the Twilight Knight Pinup crossover.
Love the shield on the female girl, Kingdom of the death should do a collaboration with Dark souls (II) there are some freaky designs in that game too.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Will the dramatic increase in cost of getting larger scale stuff printed I suspect that's probably not viable..
but shoot him a message after the KS is shipped (and he has time to think), you never know
I think I will. I suppose I have no idea what the market for stuff like that looks like. There is a slight overlap, but generally the garage kit market is even smaller than boutique miniatures. Given the success of KD though and the number of collectors out there I think he might be able to swing a limited release at least. Actually I am certain it'd sell like hotcakes and I'd wind up not getting one
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Alpharius wrote: Based on that question and your username, you had me worried there for a second!
Adam moving into collectable large scale kit is very likely, both the chair girl and this figure, Laurie PinUp, (below) were created around the same time and previewed quite a few months ago, although
the original images kinda disappeared randomly:
Warning NSFW and a large image:
Spoiler:
The description for this figure, Laurie:
This piece is a bit old, but I hadn't posted it here. It was to become the first Kingdom Death based model kit at about 8 inches or so tall. I was printed, fitted, but it needed some clean up from the milling lines.
It might still happen as a kit at some point, but it depends if Adam (KD's creator) decides he wants it to happen and has the time, which at the moment isn't the case. The concept as often is the case
And the chair girl, whos called Simone:
Mini for Kingdom Death. Production for this one is on hold while the main game is being manufactured... be on the look out for her and more once the main game is shipping.
So yeah Adam is obliviously planning to moving into at least a few 1/8 scale kits (8inches is the average height of a 1/8 anime scale figure), it just looks like due to the devolpmeant and release of KD:M
he's decided to put the project on hold, understandable he must be strapped for time and resources as it is without having to create a whole new product range top of it all.
I Know I'd loved so 1/8 scale KD pin-ups, honestly so few anime figures are ever more exciting than girl in schoolgirl uniform, girl in unimaginative looking bikini (because breast right?) in the same three poses *groan*. Adam could
potentially hit an interesting niche of highly detailed and graceful figures that's severely lacking in that market at the moment. Not to say they don't exist in figure market, but the just one in thousand overall, how much actual crossover
there is between the miniature and figure market is going to be interesting to see.
in fact some of adams work would look really great along side Empty's Princess Solange, n-n-not that I know of such things.....
1/8 scale Dragon King would be cooler. Amd horribly more expensive I'd imagine.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Not to beat a dead horse, but I finally got a chance to sit down and open up the pin-up collection. I have to say, these are some VERY impressive miniatures. The tiny details are already giving me nightmares abou painting them.
On the other hand the fact that about half of the models' breasts come as seperate pieces tickled me. I don't know why, but it just seemed very odd.
Well after finally paying VAT and the "Royal Mail International Handling Charge" (because it takes money to maintain their special level of donkeycavery), finally got my pin-up set like two weeks after it landed in the country.
Well holy cow it was worth the wait, and I'm really excited for when the game lands.
I didn't get the pin up set mainly because of the likely costs incurred in the post. I couldn't resist the earlier grab bags, which luckily I was okay with. I really hope EU distribution is arranged for KD:M as I dread to think how much the total fees incurred by all the EU backers would turn out to be. I know some people aren't fond of c'mon, but personally I'd welcome their distribution connections (if that was a possibility).
So great was Satan’s self-obsession that it split into twin hermaphrodite lovers to share the world with itself. They roam Kingdom Death, drunk with self-lust and power, trapped by their own vanity in fragile human frames. Their armor of living tongues shares the taste of the world between the twins. Satan is a vicious masochist, poisoning the minds of any it comes across. The pair is well hated by other entities, as they only seek to disrupt balance for their own satisfaction.
Satan was hand sculpted by Jacques Alexandre Gillois with the concept art by Lokman Lam.
This limited collectors run celebrates passing the $666,666 mark during the Kingdom Death: Monster kickstarter. It comes packaged in a hand-stamped kraft box including:
1 x Satan Twin X
1 x Satan Twin Y
2 x Kingdom Death 30mm Base
Numbered & Signed Collectors Certificate of Authenticity
6" x 4” Double-sided Print of the Original Concept Artwork on heavy card stock.
Double-sided character Card
Pretty much have all of the KD stuff. So this was a no brainer.
But for the first time, I think I actually got the first one for both of these... was on the site and saw it was updating... so just had it refreshing and bought it instantly. Having these as #1 will be nice
So great was Satan’s self-obsession that it split into twin hermaphrodite lovers to share the world with itself. They roam Kingdom Death, drunk with self-lust and power, trapped by their own vanity in fragile human frames. Their armor of living tongues...
This girl on the left...are those things on her cloak meant to be tongues? Hmmm...
Creeeeepy...
Also, while I normally admire KD's stuff, I'm not a huge fan of these.
That's... quite disappointing. When I think Satan, a pair of boob-jobbed lesbian porn stars isn't the first thing that comes to my mind... It isn't even the 100th. Not to mention KD has enough cheesecake as it is, I'd say.
So great was Satan’s self-obsession that it split into twin hermaphrodite lovers to share the world with itself. They roam Kingdom Death, drunk with self-lust and power, trapped by their own vanity in fragile human frames. Their armor of living tongues...
This girl on the left...are those things on her cloak meant to be tongues? Hmmm...
-DE- wrote: That's... quite disappointing. When I think Satan, a pair of boob-jobbed lesbian porn stars isn't the first thing that comes to my mind... It isn't even the 100th. Not to mention KD has enough cheesecake as it is, I'd say.
I can't agree more, and I am starting to think that this is starting to feel more and more like cash-grab, to be honest. The high price on these are quite alright for a unique miniature that is sculpted by someone really good. But as of late, these naked chicks are so easy to do in 3d that the rate the sculptor can charge doesn't really justify the high price. Here, you've basically taken your template sculpt and added some basic stuff that you pretty much can copy/paste to achieve. What would the profit margin be on these? I am guessing at least 70% profit margin. Mmm, not sure what to think about it.
Really love the stuff kingdom death comes out with and its a treat to paint, such a pity the kickstarter didn't give much incentive to pledge other than a pre-order
-DE- wrote: That's... quite disappointing. When I think Satan, a pair of boob-jobbed lesbian porn stars isn't the first thing that comes to my mind... It isn't even the 100th. Not to mention KD has enough cheesecake as it is, I'd say.
I can't agree more, and I am starting to think that this is starting to feel more and more like cash-grab, to be honest. The high price on these are quite alright for a unique miniature that is sculpted by someone really good. But as of late, these naked chicks are so easy to do in 3d that the rate the sculptor can charge doesn't really justify the high price. Here, you've basically taken your template sculpt and added some basic stuff that you pretty much can copy/paste to achieve. What would the profit margin be on these? I am guessing at least 70% profit margin. Mmm, not sure what to think about it.
I'm really not certain that good digital sculptors are any cheaper (or quicker) than physical ones (although the medium does allow easier re-poseing if you're doing units) but in this case
Satan was hand sculpted by Jacques Alexandre Gillois
The Gold Smoke Knight was hand sculpted by Thomas David
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I'm really not certain that good digital sculptors are any cheaper (or quicker) than physical ones (although the medium does allow easier re-poseing if you're doing units)
Digital sculpting is significantly more expensive than traditional. The sculpt is the same rate, but printing is not free (or cheap), and the print needs some work before the master castings can be made.
Creator Kingdom Death about 4 hours ago
The skirt is a separate piece. The model is fully sculpted underneath.
Image is definitely NSFW! I wasn't paying that much attention this morning! I can see the detail now.
I ordered Satan twins as they probably won't appear again not entirely sold on the concept but hey they will hold their value if I decide I do 't like them held off on the Knight as I have with alot of the newer stuff as I hope they will be done in plastic in a later game and I don't really want to order to much that currently has no game use
I went the opposite direction Dave - I ordered the Gold Smoke Knight and left the Satan Twins out.
The Penis Cloak was a bit much, and even if it can be left off, there's less chance for the Twins to show up 'in game', and 'counts as' options for them are limited as well...
I'm not a big fan of the sculpt, but I do love the background.
The sculpt is very nicely executed, and I like the Kingdom Death-esque juxtaposition of the beautiful against the macabre, but it just doesn't carry the story that well. They seem like women, rather than being ambiguous or both. Some more "male" features worked in would have been better, IMO, though I admit to only skimming the images at the site so maybe I just overlooked something.
The Smoke Knight is cool, though my "awesome model that I'll be way too scared to paint" is tapped out.
The Satan Twns are novel, but I'll probably pass on these releases. I already have most of the other stuff, and neither the Knight nor the Twins scream must-have to me.
Nah, I've never been a fan of sculpted smoke effects really. After closer inspection, the Twins' sword and scabbard look really thin. Hopefully that turns out well. Their hair looks good though- especially the Jesus-staff one.
So glad the cape of unmentionables is left off, that was WAY too much for me. Tongues are weird (and I can paint it metallic and pretend it away)... the other not so much
Yea, not feeling the twins. Which is something I thought I would never type. They are nicely sculpted from a technical angle, but I just don't get what their story is supposed to be. I don't look at them and get an idea of what their deal is, or any sort of story. Other than cutting off schlongs and tongues. Which is scary, but sort of run of the mill, especially for KD. I guess the one on the right is temptation, and the other wrath perhaps, but really I am just not feeling it like I do with many of Adam's other models.
I'd be getting them (although I'm not too keen on the right hand Satan twin I like the other one)
but I'm broke (that's Mierce's fault),
and KD now seems to be on the UK customs data base so I'm pretty certain I'd end up adding VAT and the £8 handling fee which pretty much moves them into the more than I'm prepared to pay at the moment
I was excited about the idea of a Yaoi artist making male pinup models. While I would be uncomfortable having a female pinup on my shelf, having it next to a male pinup would be perfectly palatable to me. Objectifying woman isn't great. But if you're objectifying both genders equally, go right ahead. As a self identified feminist, that proposal got me excited as a way to defend Kingdom Death to my feminist friends.
But there's some serious misogynistic implications behind the idea of the devil being a pair of women (okay, extremely feminine hermaphrodites) who cut off the penises of men and wear them as skirts.
In the context of Kingdom Death as a whole, it's not the worst thing in the world. Body horror is a thing is this game. But seen on it's own, these models look pretty damning. Oh well. I'll continue to support the parts of this game I approve of and leave out the parts I don't approve of.
Speaking of which. I've seen a few people decry this Satan model as a cash grab and I have to ask, so what if it is? I don't care what the markup is, if people are willing to shell out the money and it helps to pay for more awesome sculpts or gameplay, I'm happy.
The Twins are a bit disappointing, now that I read their description.They don't really look like "Hermaphrodite demon lover twins from Hell". I would have expected some androgynous, unsettling-yet-beautiful creatures, not "naked babe with a 'fleshy' skirt" - especially coming from Kingdom Death ! ^^'
And as Sway above, I'm really curious about these potentially upcoming male pinup.
For once I'm a bit underwhelmed by a KD release; just not digging those twins. The Knight is cool and I would like to have had one, but I was a good boy and resisted the 'purchase now' button (having just dropped £600 on Mierce Darklands helped a bit there too).
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: KD now seems to be on the UK customs data base so I'm pretty certain I'd end up adding VAT and the £8 handling fee which pretty much moves them into the more than I'm prepared to pay at the moment
Yeah, same here in Sweden. My previous KD orders have actually just slipped through, but on my last order I got spanked with an extra $40 by customs. 25% plus a flat $15 handling fee, together with international shipping, raises the cost of ordering that single Gold Smoke Knight to above $60 for me. I just can't justify that.
It's really no worse than any of the other pin ups. Wang armor and stupid spine contortions are equal. Not only that but that's not even close to the most explicit thing in Kingdom Death. We have the net nurse for most inappropriate thing ever.
Wehrkind wrote: Yea, the only real sin I see in those two twins is that of being sort of boring.
I think this is the best compliment Poots could ask for. Wang armor, bared nipples, and tongues licking all over a woman's body being "boring" compared to the rest of his line.
Actually, come to think on it, I should remember when gak started getting really weird... before Stile Project, but my brain doesn't remember much before that. That's odd.
*sigh* - more cool KD minis that are sold out by the time I learn of their existence.
I really like a lot of his minis but his business model is frustrating as hell, and it keeps me from even really trying to be do more than a token buy-in. (It helped me stay my hand during the KS too).
Now I feel great sadness. As much as I want the smoke knight, that shipping cost makes it too hard to justify purchasing that one model alone. If there were another model in stock that I wanted, I could probably bear that shipping charge a little better, but as it is, that's just a bit too much for me to handle.
Maybe if CMON, or some other retailer, gets some copies, I might buy one and fit it in with a few other things, so as to rationalize that shipping.
Schmapdi wrote: *sigh* - more cool KD minis that are sold out by the time I learn of their existence.
I really like a lot of his minis but his business model is frustrating as hell, and it keeps me from even really trying to be do more than a token buy-in. (It helped me stay my hand during the KS too).
Frustrating? Likely. Effective in maintaining a high level, boutique, gotta-buy-it-right-now-if-you-want-it model? Undoubtedly.
At least he does recast stuff. It can be more frustrating when they don't. See Johnny Cupcakes as an example.
Schmapdi wrote: *sigh* - more cool KD minis that are sold out by the time I learn of their existence.
I really like a lot of his minis but his business model is frustrating as hell, and it keeps me from even really trying to be do more than a token buy-in. (It helped me stay my hand during the KS too).
You know I'm not sure that the way his stuff is sold is actually his 'model'. Think about it- this guy is getting around 200-300 units of really well cast resin for a release. Then they sell out. I'm actually pretty mind boggled that anyone can do that volume of resin and keep the quality at all. Bad business model would be if he only got in 10 at a time. I think he's trying to stock, they just sell like hotcakes. He's trying new materials, and offering encore editions. I don't get the feeling that he's purposefully limiting the output (like diamond dealers), its really a limitation of the casting material.
My question is, are very many people painting them? I don't see many painted examples. Are they being collected, and sold on eBay to other collectors? What's the deal?
Could perhaps be used in some form of 'counts as' or other in KD: M...
That is indeed a very nice mini! I love the different Knights, would love to have a display with the Flower, Dung and now Smoke Knights (are there any others?) arrayed on it.
Schmapdi wrote: *sigh* - more cool KD minis that are sold out by the time I learn of their existence.
I really like a lot of his minis but his business model is frustrating as hell, and it keeps me from even really trying to be do more than a token buy-in. (It helped me stay my hand during the KS too).
Frustrating? Likely. Effective in maintaining a high level, boutique, gotta-buy-it-right-now-if-you-want-it model? Undoubtedly.
At least he does recast stuff. It can be more frustrating when they don't. See Johnny Cupcakes as an example.
Maybe - but it doesn't need to be a "high-level boutique" to be successful. I hate being forced to jump through hoops to give people money. It'd be fine if he did the super-limited resin special editions followed by plastics in normal packaging. (Especially since he's proved able to do high quality plastics affordably).
There are plenty of people who want to buy KD minis that can't. This leads to the recaster and Ebay scalper problem.
Pacific wrote: That is indeed a very nice mini! I love the different Knights, would love to have a display with the Flower, Dung and now Smoke Knights (are there any others?) arrayed on it.
Maybe - but it doesn't need to be a "high-level boutique" to be successful. I hate being forced to jump through hoops to give people money. It'd be fine if he did the super-limited resin special editions followed by plastics in normal packaging. (Especially since he's proved able to do high quality plastics affordably).
That's what the KS is about. The plastics are something that took a lot of capital, the resin is very low cost (IE just the sculpts). He will have the plastic available at some point, but not until the KS is completely fulfillied.
The Pinups plastic box was an exception, and was a WGF prize (they use that to show their quality)
Sinful Hero wrote: And damn good quality it was. I'm still gushing over the details on those miniatures.
Haven't put mine together yet, to be honest, most of my KD stuff is still safe in the little collector boxes where I (and other people) cannot break them. When I get my Tablewar case setup properly for them I'll magnetise and transfer them across for semi-permanent display and safety.
Well, the Satan certainly surprised me! I did not expect a pair of wicked females, one possibly... "it's a trap!" The tongue armor is really... I don't think Berserk has done anything like that yet?
You could really paint the twins up as very glossy and slimy, and "fetish"... ya im going to stop as the internet has made be unshakeable but I can still be surprised. TONGUES!
The Gold Smoke Knight is really cool, a Soul Caliber style Kingdom Death game with a third person adventure mode would really rock! Playing as a Great Game Hunter or starting as a deprived... or just play Dark Souls!
Please do not use that word. It is very offensive and totally uncalled for in the context of this discussion.
Personally, I find the flavour text for Satan to be really neat and fitting within the Kingdom Death world but fail to see the connection between the fluff and the models (as well executed as they are).
Maybe - but it doesn't need to be a "high-level boutique" to be successful. I hate being forced to jump through hoops to give people money. It'd be fine if he did the super-limited resin special editions followed by plastics in normal packaging. (Especially since he's proved able to do high quality plastics affordably).
That's what the KS is about. The plastics are something that took a lot of capital, the resin is very low cost (IE just the sculpts). He will have the plastic available at some point, but not until the KS is completely fulfillied.
If they'll be available at some point in plastic (even if that's years away) then I'm happy. But I'm not sure that's true? Has he ever stated that he intends to bring all the existing KD sculpts into plastic eventually?
I'm in the camp of the "Love the idea behind his Satan, but fail to see it in the model itself", but oh well, I wasn't going to buy it anyways. That said, I'm excited to see the big update we're supposed to get this week. I do love the Gold Smoke Knight, but that's no surprise, he hasn't made a single Knight yet that I don't like. I've just got to wait for the Smoke and Storm Knights to be in plastic way later down the road!
Gasmasked Mook wrote: Please do not use that word. It is very offensive and totally uncalled for in the context of this discussion.
I disagree. It's a standard term/theme in anime and anime is what KD is styled on. As for offensive, you might want to leave the thread because nearly everything Poots does is offensive. That's right, nearly the entire KD line is overtly offensive. That's the nature of his work so please don't come in here applying selective outrage when a people start talking about some specific item you don't like. Thought police - now that's offensive!
Gasmasked Mook wrote: Please do not use that word. It is very offensive and totally uncalled for in the context of this discussion.
I disagree. It's a standard term/theme in anime and anime is what KD is styled on. As for offensive, you might want to leave the thread because nearly everything Poots does is offensive. That's right, nearly the entire KD line is overtly offensive. That's the nature of his work so please don't come in here applying selective outrage when a people start talking about some specific item you don't like. Thought police - now that's offensive!
The Kingdom Death line isn't offensive. It's grotesque. It looks weird and makes people uncomfortable. You could argue that the sexist nature of the pinups is offensive to some. But if you're trying to say that a model like the Wet Nurse is offensive than you're likely misusing the word. You'll notice Mook was not saying the model was offensive, only the language some people are using to discuss the model.
The term "trap" however, is offensive. Trap is a derogatory term for a transgender or transsexual person. And I should add, unlike the Wet Nurse, such people actually exist in the world. It implies that a person who was born as one sex but identifies with another is actively trying to deceive other people, not trying to make their physical identity match up with their mental identity. In this specific case, calling the model a trap implies that a person who was born with large breasts and a penis is actively trying to "trap" people by attracting others with their large breasts and only later revealing that they have a penis.
Yes, there are characters in anime (and elsewhere) that do actively try to deceive. And there are artists who draw characters with the intent to deceive. Feel free to refer to such things as traps. But to use the term trap as a blanket word to refer to anyone who looks feminine yet has a penis is offensive.
Out of curiousity, what would a nonoffensive term for a person with large breasts and a penis be? Transgender/transexual is not really descriptive enough for this specific case. Also, we aren't actually talking about a trans-anything, but an individual that can be whatever gender it desires.
Would the term "futa" be acceptable? Considering the influences KD has(manga such as Berserk), I think this may to be the best term to avoid hurt feelings.
Gasmasked Mook wrote: Please do not use that word. It is very offensive and totally uncalled for in the context of this discussion.
I disagree. It's a standard term/theme in anime and anime is what KD is styled on. As for offensive, you might want to leave the thread because nearly everything Poots does is offensive. That's right, nearly the entire KD line is overtly offensive. That's the nature of his work so please don't come in here applying selective outrage when a people start talking about some specific item you don't like. Thought police - now that's offensive!
I believe they taking issue with referring to calling trans people "traps", not any issues with the models/sculpts. But you know, those thought police, always making polite requests to not use homophobic/transphobic terms.
Sinful Hero wrote: Out of curiousity, what would a nonoffensive term for a person with large breasts and a penis be? Transgender/transexual is not really descriptive enough for this specific case. Also, we aren't actually talking about a trans-anything, but an individual that can be whatever gender it desires.
Would the term "futa" be acceptable? Considering the influences KD has(manga such as Berserk), I think this may to be the best term to avoid hurt feelings.
Within the anime terms (of which I'm only vaguely familiar) futa seems to be a much more polite term. From what I can tell, futa stems directly from the Japanese word for hermaphroditism so if you're trying to respect the anime/manga influences, I would go with that. Personally, I'll stick to calling the model a hermaphrodite (at least canonically. The model itself is a pretty poor representation).
Bossk_Hogg wrote: I believe they taking issue with referring to calling trans people "traps", not any issues with the models/sculpts.
Never did that. You need to invent things out of whole cloth to make that connection.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: But you know, those thought police, always making polite requests to not use homophobic/transphobic terms.
The word is not anythingphobic but if you need to believe it is, I suggest you to look at the bottom-right corner of any of my posts and click that little [Ignore (/)] button. In fact, with liberal use of that button, you can rest assured your little corner of the internet can remain pure as the wind driven snow. Then again, if you're that easily offended, why are you in a thread where giant penis monsters pop up now and again as part of the discussion?
Bossk_Hogg wrote: I believe they taking issue with referring to calling trans people "traps", not any issues with the models/sculpts.
Never did that. You need to invent things out of whole cloth to make that connection.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: But you know, those thought police, always making polite requests to not use homophobic/transphobic terms.
The word is not anythingphobic but if you need to believe it is, I suggest you to look at the bottom-right corner of any of my posts and click that little [Ignore (/)] button. In fact, with liberal use of that button, you can rest assured your little corner of the internet can remain pure as the wind driven snow. Then again, if you're that easily offended, why are you in a thread where giant penis monsters pop up now and again as part of the discussion?
Internet tuff guy saves world from PC police! Film at 11.
Thanks for confirming you're just a stereotypical chest thumping dick. But hey, we're in a thread with penis monsters, so anything goes. Anyone know any good racist jokes?
I don't think this particular avenue we've wondered down is really terribly relevant to the immediate topic at hand or one that's really worth oursuing any further, so let;s drop this tangent now please.
Really surprised to see the Gold Smoke Knight still in stock. Not as surprising as White Speaker Nico and the Non-pinup Female Great Game Hunter though.
Sinful Hero wrote: Really surprised to see the Gold Smoke Knight still in stock. Not as surprising as White Speaker Nico and the Non-pinup Female Great Game Hunter though.
We'll, the Gold Smoke Knight isn't exactly the sexiest fellow on the planet, is he? I mean if beer guts were sexy, GW would sell a lot more Ogres.
At first glance I actually thought the Gold Smoke Knight was Satan and that the twins were something else.
Maybe this is a very Kingdom Death thing? I'm not talking cheesecake here, but rather the subversion of expectations. Most of us it seems were picturing the KD Satan as something more akin to the Dragon God, I'd imagine, or perhaps something very depraved and vile that would be aesthetically repulsive (read: ugly). Instead we are given two hermaphrodites that are not readily horrible.
If that was the intention, then kudos.
I'm probably going to purchase them now and hope they grow on me. They can always be resold later if that doesn't happen.
Sinful Hero wrote: Really surprised to see the Gold Smoke Knight still in stock. Not as surprising as White Speaker Nico and the Non-pinup Female Great Game Hunter though.
We'll, the Gold Smoke Knight isn't exactly the sexiest fellow on the planet, is he? I mean if beer guts were sexy, GW would sell a lot more Ogres.
That may be part of it, but I seem to remember the previous Smoke Knight selling out rather quickly. It seems like his latest monster releases(Chosen and now the Gold Smoke Knight) don't seem to sell as fast.
Schmapdi wrote: If they'll be available at some point in plastic (even if that's years away) then I'm happy. But I'm not sure that's true? Has he ever stated that he intends to bring all the existing KD sculpts into plastic eventually?
Most KD sculpts should end up in plastic as they were intended for a game not unlike Monster. The pin-ups aren't canon, but have found a way into plastic any way. So the non-pin-ups should find their way into plastic with the next inevitable Kickstarter, which from the tone of Poots doesn't seem to be any time soon.
Adam has stated in the Comments over on Kickstarter (the unofficial KD forum) he'd like to see a limited resin release for collectors followed by a plastic wide release for everyone else. Where that happens though who knows.
They had 500 of the Gold Smoke Knight in to start with (the whole LE run),
but from what I remember the they had fewer (250 or 300) of Smoke Knight
which might explain why it seems to be selling slower
(or it might be folk had the cash for one but not two new figures and Satan was just more popular)
agree with the majority that satan are rather dissapointing. sure they are good looking mini, but they have nothing that make them different than the other pinup mini (except for that ridiculous dick skirt). The knight on the other end is awesome. Weird that the former seems to be selling better than the latter.
If you kind of squint the gorm mouth kind of looks like it. The Grandmother has a toothed pseudo penis. So I assume a more literal one akin to the Gaping Dragon in Dark Souls is likely on the way eventually.
Also now that I think about it the Grandmother is a much better version of the flavor text for Satan.
The Satan girls aren't quite what I was expecting. I was expecting a hermaphrodite, but not like that. I was thinking it'd wind up being more like Satan from Devilman.
Sorry if I was unclear. I meant that Poots isn't great at doing intentionally attractive and sexualized men as the characters from devilman tended to be.
Small complaint and it's not aimed at Adam he had the resources and the means to get these done so fair play but Wargames Factory don't have the spare capacity to be producing these at this time with KD:M itself late and Mr. Justin from SWM suffering from further delays in manufacturing without any firm finish date WGF should really be prioritising other things.
Agreed. WGF is late on the main KD release, Secret Weapon, and Dreamforge. So... producing a separate plastic box before any of those is very suspect, to me.
I don't blame people for buying it, of course, I'm just surprised at the lack of nerd rage about this
Small complaint and it's not aimed at Adam he had the resources and the means to get these done so fair play but Wargames Factory don't have the spare capacity to be producing these at this time with KD:M itself late and Mr. Justin from SWM suffering from further delays in manufacturing without any firm finish date WGF should really be prioritising other things.
Agreed. WGF is late on the main KD release, Secret Weapon, and Dreamforge. So... producing a separate plastic box before any of those is very suspect, to me.
I don't blame people for buying it, of course, I'm just surprised at the lack of nerd rage about this
Poots is like Teflon- nothing bad can stick to him. We also don't know where in the pipeline these were done. It's entirely possible WGF may have had a small lull and churned these out to keep production up.
Small complaint and it's not aimed at Adam he had the resources and the means to get these done so fair play but Wargames Factory don't have the spare capacity to be producing these at this time with KD:M itself late and Mr. Justin from SWM suffering from further delays in manufacturing without any firm finish date WGF should really be prioritising other things.
Agreed. WGF is late on the main KD release, Secret Weapon, and Dreamforge. So... producing a separate plastic box before any of those is very suspect, to me.
I don't blame people for buying it, of course, I'm just surprised at the lack of nerd rage about this
Thanks for coppinig a squat in here and trying to fan those particular flames though!
Small complaint and it's not aimed at Adam he had the resources and the means to get these done so fair play but Wargames Factory don't have the spare capacity to be producing these at this time with KD:M itself late and Mr. Justin from SWM suffering from further delays in manufacturing without any firm finish date WGF should really be prioritising other things.
Agreed. WGF is late on the main KD release, Secret Weapon, and Dreamforge. So... producing a separate plastic box before any of those is very suspect, to me.
I don't blame people for buying it, of course, I'm just surprised at the lack of nerd rage about this
Well for starters there are probably people (like me) who haven't backed the other two, so it's difficult to get enraged on that score (though I have sympathy for anyone that suffers delays).
From my point of view, because I don't know if they used resource that was better spent on one of the KSers, or genuinely excess resource to create them (and years of dealing with manufacturers tells me that sometimes there are bottlenecks that applying more resource to won't solve), and because Poots claims benefits in testing his logistics which I may gain a little benefit from down the line, I'm ok giving benefit of the doubt.
It is kind of a funny observation though, and really goes to show just how far good communication and friendly attitudes towards fans can go. Many, many other Kick Starters would be pilloried for this, but with KD, eh, its probably fine.
I use his comments to calm any excitement i have for new KS. I'm about to pledge, pause, and check any trouble RiTides is making. Helps keep the wallet closed...
Hey now! Someone has to be paying attention! There are actually a few campaigns I specifically don't post info on because I don't want to cause trouble, give me some credit
Wehrkind wrote: It is kind of a funny observation though, and really goes to show just how far good communication and friendly attitudes towards fans can go. Many, many other Kick Starters would be pilloried for this, but with KD, eh, its probably fine.
Yes, I guess this is part of what I was going for- people have been so satisfied with KD's progress that even his releasing a separate plastic box beforehand doesn't bother folks! He's done well with PR and fulfillment, certainly . It doesn't excuse Wargames Factory's massive delays on other campaigns, though, and this is just another notch on that...
Wehrkind wrote: While in the wilds of Maryland and Northern VA we all make fun of him for throwing huge wads of cash at Kick Starters.
HE IS PLAYING BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE!
Yeah, this is unfortunately true... I guess I pay close attention but even if that means I'm critical about some, I get sucked into others! Dwarven Forge hurt my wallet badly this month, and I couldn't resist the cool indie campaigns either, so... things were sold, let's put it that way
RiTides: I think there wasn't a ton of rancor because people realize the type of person Adam is wouldn't accept "oh we promise it'll be great!" or simply renders and part splits from WGF. They would have had to make something for him to hold in his hand for him commit to using them. Then when you connect all the dots on the timing of the plastic announcement and the arrival of this box set, it becomes somewhat apparent that their usage of the existing KD sculpts was to prove that they could be entrusted with the whole job. Given the amount of detail and such in KD's sculpts, it would have been an excellent test for the upcoming sculpts and once you have molds made for plastic...why not do a production run with the hard part over?
WGF, in my opinion, did indeed shove some other projects about to pursue and produce KD but that's on WGF and not on the KS projects themselves. Hence, not many people are going to harangue any one project for the decisions made by a third party. It'd be more surprising to not see nerd rage in a WGF thread for that reason, but for the KSes impacted it wouldn't be much of a surprise at all for it to be absent, especially given that 1) Most of the project creators are reasonably communicative/responsive and 2) when WGF does deliver, the quality is where people want it without any Sedition Wars or Mantic-esque "surprises" at the last minute.
Those are some pretty substantial mitigating factors in the long run.
I totally agree, Krinsath- especially with the part about where the nerd rage should be directed, if applicable (at WGF). Their quality does make up for a lot, but I feel bad that Justin at Secret Weapon was catching heat for their delay when WGF was doing things like this. I really hope future product creators can negotiate firmer timelines with WGF (perhaps with penalties for delays of over 3 or 6 months).
That's a good point about the contracts, and it would be really interesting to see their evolution over time. People often don't think about it, but contracting technology advances and changes all the time, and it probably is the case that WGF hadn't ever had to deal with the sort of volume they have seen in the past two years with Kick Starters. Especially with the added questions of how much stuff will need to be made after the KS finishes, when sculpts will be done, etc. etc. it probably was quite a shock to their processes as well. New agreements and standard language will have to be drawn up, and I wouldn't be surprised to find that over the next two years we see such issues becoming non-issues as manufacturers like WGF come to grips with how to deal with KS projects.
And RiTides, you had better not have sold anything I wanted
The 'WGF factory' has a lot of other clients, and bigger ones than the various wargames companies.
The 'WGF Miniatures Company' has had its own projects bumped back by the factory as well- notice that they've had fewer in-house releases over the last year, and I'm sure that if they had their way the six new AWI sets announced at GenCon last year would be out right now.
From my perspective the American side of WGF is very professional and the contracts I get as a painter have penalty clauses (on their end, not mine, oddly enough)- not sure how it is on the manufacturing client side. I'd be very curious to see what the agreement looks like, if time frames are indicated, etc. I'm also curious if Wyrd ever gets delayed. When it comes to miniatures companies I haven't seen any favoritism. I can understand the frustration from Secret Weapon and its backers. Some of the other companies are slow to provide their designs or requested modifications though, as suggested earlier there are quite a few ways for bottlenecks to develop. I can't tell you how many times I've done concept art for someone due by a certain date. I'll give them a concept and won't hear back for a week or two, until a day before it's due... "Can you change this, and this, and this?".
Not trying to make excuses, just pointing out that there's more to it than 'WGF took on too many game miniatures clients' (which I'm sure is very true )
I thought the release of the Pinups was odd considering KD:M, but who knows when that was contracted. For all we know the sprues were done months ago and they were waiting on the special boxes.
Wyrd certainly gets delayed too which is why some of the expected box sets did not show up at the last (or was it the one before?) gencon
significant delays meant they only arrived on the week of the show to (only for Wyrd to find WGF had made what whats meant to be a 28mm mini standing on a bit of railroad scenery 28mm high including the scenery) so that particular box could not be sold (talked about on one of the d6 generation podcasts)
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Wyrd certainly gets delayed too which is why some of the expected box sets did not show up at the last (or was it the one before?) gencon
significant delays meant they only arrived on the week of the show to (only for Wyrd to find WGF had made what whats meant to be a 28mm mini standing on a bit of railroad scenery 28mm high including the scenery) so that particular box could not be sold (talked about on one of the d6 generation podcasts)
Interesting, thanks for the anecdote. I was at GenCon and didn't hear about that, despite getting a lot of juicy info from Wyrd.
Not to shift too far OT, but I also get the impression that WGF is pretty generous with credit to their clients which has allowed KSes who don't make $2 million to put out some really awesome stuff. Maybe not as fast as anyone involved wanted, but we should give praise where it's due as well. I think the guy running WGF is just as prone to getting carried away as we are and while that's not always all that awesome in practice, I do think that passion flows down to the people who make the stuff awesome.
While I get miffed at delays as much as the next guy, I have yet to see anything from the WGF-produced KS that I have not felt was worth every penny I put into it. I do hope that trend continues with KD:M and elsewhere. Now if you'll excuse me I need to get my daily drooling over the test shot of the Eisenkern APC out of the way...
Yea, WGF does some good work so far as I can tell. I have lots of random stuff with their name on it, and I have been quite pleased!
Then again, I am slowed for neat little men to put in boxes and never see again, judging by a "quick check through my bits boxes" that just took 15 minutes.
A thought occurs to me, though. I've noticed a common trend with all of the delayed WGF projects: in all of them (KD, SW, DFG, etc.), WGF is actually working with the project creators to create the finished project to the creators' standards. How many other plastics companies would just take the 3d files, create the molds, and call it a day at that? Sure, the process is taking longer, but WGF seems to be going the extra mile and it shows in the quality.
I've gotta agree that the delays are worth it with this kickstarter. It's the clear communication of an improvement in and dedication to quality, I think, that makes the wait sting less. There's at least one kickstarter I'm waiting on right now that I know for certain is not going to even approximate the standards of quality they promised. It's a shame, because that particular company had a ton of good will from me and, from what I could tell, everyone else, but their botched handling of their initial kickstarter has ruined it. Slow, steady, and honest seems to be the best method of managing a KS campaign successfully, and Adam's doing all three.
Also, a pinup based on a monster composed entirely of babies is disturbing to consider. ...I can't wait. XD
Fingers crossed Adam goes with the EU distribution option. Whilst getting it sooner is cool, it'd be cooler (for me) waiting a bit longer to avoid getting stung by customs.
The update mentioned the pledge manager (now re-opened) has an updated list on the MSRP of Kingdom Death: Monster stuff. If someone could be persuaded to post that list it would be much appreciated.
Also, a pinup based on a monster composed entirely of babies is disturbing to consider. ...I can't wait. XD[/quote}]
The king will look the same - he'll just be compromised of much sexier babies.
All the plastic kits must meet this project's high requirements and my personal scrutiny. Currently, the armor kits do not. They have proved to be more challenging than myself or the technicians at the factory expected.
To resolve this moving forward, I have had several long meetings over the course of this week with the factory boss. He is putting his other responsibilities aside to work with me directly, everyday, 1 armor kit at a time until they meet my approval. I realize I am the gatekeeper in this process and I apologize, but I can't produce something that does not meet my and your expectations.
So far, our project has produced some of the best hard plastic kits I have ever seen. It is, in all sincerity, a little mind-blowing that they are kits I directed and produced with your help.
The fan feedback and positive reviews we've received about the Pinups of Death hard plastic kit really crystalized the feeling that this uncomprimising approach is creating incredible results. Even the guys at Beasts of War were blown away by the plastic Phoenix:
Thankfully, production on all hard plastic kits I have approved has already been finished! There are 15,000 finished Phoenixes waiting for us! (among many other kits!) But… as all of you know, unless everything is 100% done, the project is not done. The reality of this project's scale means we cannot afford to ship plastic rewards in multiple waves and thus we must wait for every last arm, head, and skullcap hammer. Sadly, this is a bottom-line reality.
This is our project and its my job to make sure it's done right. If everything does not meet my requirements and the expectations I've given you, I will feel I have failed to deliver the very heart and soul of my efforts.
Blame Me There are no excuses, this is entirely on my own shoulders. The commitment I made by running this campaign (producing 11 times the original scope of the content or not) is the real deal. I am putting every ounce of professional and personal effort, along with every penny of the money raised, into it.
I am always available, front and center, to answer any of your questions and address your concerns. You are my prized backers, the people directly responsible for making any of this possible. If there is something I can do for one of you, I will make an effort to do it.
You can message me thru kickstarter, or send me an email at adam.poots AT kingdomdeath.com. Yes, sometimes my inbox is flooded, but I do respond to everything, eventually. If you have sent me a message in the past without a response, a gentle reminder would be appreciated. I imagine this will result in many messages, so please be patient as I sort thru them. Thank you in advance.
If you have pledge manager questions, email anna at kingdomdeath.com.
Technicality So we are still "technically" beginning fulfillment in Q2 2014 as I estimated. The Kings of Death will have their Chest of Death collection and the resin beta sent in june.
The resin beta level will also ship out in june.
Estimated Fulfillment Update I will return at the end of June with a more specific time frame. I respect everyone here too much to pull any "smoke and mirror" tricks, I just want to provide facts. And so I have decided to wait and provide exactly that.
The printing process for the projects many components has already started. The core game and its tutorial received an additional 3 weeks of blind play-testing before we handed it off to an editor and I am feeling very confident in it. (The edited version just came back yesterday!) There are still some good questions that play testers (yes we are STILL doing that) have raised and I think between them and the resin beta backers we will generate a solid FAQ in support of the game that will be available online.
Shipping Address Changes We have a new shipping address policy in place. When fulfillment begins, we will send you an email to confirm your shipping address. You couldn't believe how often people change their shipping address, I had no idea people moved around that much! So don't worry, we'll get your current addresses when the game ships!
EU Fullfillment We have two options lined up. I won't be able to pull the trigger until our warehouse is at 100% accountability.
1. We pack everything domestically, the boxes are freight shipped to the EU and then a label is slapped on to each one and its mailed from within the EU.
2. We pack everything domestically and declare the lowest possible legal value (manufacturing costs I do believe) on each package. It is then shipped from Brooklyn NY. This will be the quickest way for backers to receive rewards.
The disadvantage to #1, is that it's an extremely long process. All EU orders would need to be packed, then placed on a freight container. Wherein they will be received and shipped a second time. I have always stated, from the beginning, that international packages would most likely ship from the US, as it is the most controlled, manageable and efficient way for us.
Why can't you just work with a fulfillment company / partner? As many of you requested, I spoke with several companies that offer international fulfillment. It was not my intent from the get go, but it was a great idea and I followed up on it in earnest.
The reality is this kickstarter is simply too complicated. There are too many items, some from different vendors, some frail, all of which would need to be individually combined in every unique order combination and the size of this task places it far beyond what the budget allows. Even with additional resources we collected from each international backer, the total does not even come close to the reality. We would be spending a crippling amount, to send out packages that we did not personally and carefully pack ourselves, with no way to oversee or hands on trouble shoot a number of logistical issues that may arise.
As promised, I will still keep an open ear and if something solid develops. I will update everyone on the matter. I need to keep the interests of all of the backers and also the project in mind.
Pledge Manager Reopened
By popular demand, Anna has retooled the pledge manager to accept further pledge additions.
Here's what you should know: You can use your original pledge manager details to login. We've removed resin and collectors edition items since their production numbers are already locked in and in production, or sitting in our warehouse. We've adjusted the MSRP (Our suggested retail price) of all kickstarter items to reflect realistic production and the future of Monster's retail life.
HOWEVER, we've maintained a tremendous discount for all backers. Items that you add to your pledge cannot be switched, swapped, replaced, or otherwise impact your original pledge. The pledge manager is optimized for the Chrome browser but should be fine in most up-to-date browsers. Any questions or problems please direct to anna at kingdomdeath dot com
If you've forgotten your password enter your email on the left and click the Forgot Password link to reset your password.
- You will find a button at the top of the next page that will take you to a summary of your pledge options from your original pledge.
- You can browse the available kickstarter options using the categories on the left hand side.
- Once you are ready, click the ADD FUNDS button. A paypal link will appear that will take you through the PayPal bit. Once you complete the paypal process and press the close button in the popup you will be taken to an overview of your additions. An email confirmation will follow shortly.
*NOTE: I have not yet had a chance to change the images in the pledge manager, many of them will display the wrong prices and MSRP. I will take care of this tomorrow.
Progress Report
Allright, with that all out of the way I can finally talk about some things I am very pleased with!
Flower Knight
Here is the flower Knight in all his plastic glory. Again I decided to bump up his size a little bit. It really seems to help with all of the micro details that resin can render so well. I guess… its kind of a little bit like cheating! But its a lot nicer then the 3% shrinkage you'll normally see with PVC plastic.
Spoiler:
The Flower Knight Sprue has a few surprises that we didn't initially plan on. Benefits of the delay. We added some extra weapons and a new instrument, A Chello! Which has been delighting everyone around the office.
Gorm
The plastic Gorm is awesome. I was really nervous we would lose all of the skin texture on his body and have to sort of "smooth" it out. The factory really shone thru and he came out great! Up close, it really feels more like something made form clay.
Spoiler:
The Lonley Tree
Putting together this tree, is intense! A total of 4 sprues make up it's massive body. Everyone here likes the plastic tree so much, we've decided to extend the lonely tree expansion to include a small ai & hit location deck, so you can fight a rare breed of it! In addition the phoenix actually does rest on top of the tree, so when it lands on it during gameplay you can put him up there. This is more coincdence then design tho, so do it at your own risk!
Spoiler:
Slenderman
I know this is going to tank the sales of the resin slender man units we still have but uh... I think the plastic one actually turned out better?! The sculptor, Jacques-Alexandre Gillois has such incredible talent and is able to craft miniature with such light and delicate features. Slender Man was scanned, and optimized digitally where we pulled all of the details out a little bit and bumped up his size. Actually he was optimized twice! First time was by myself and Hector Moran and the second time by the factory. The result well... its not frail like the resin and the bumped up details actually make it feel much more crisp. So... yeah I like this one more!
Spoiler:
The King
Standing at 120mm tall, the plastic King makes me so proud! I was very worried he would have to be cut into a bazillion parts to preserve his detail and layers of mystery. I was however and very thankfully wrong. Of all the large monsters, the kit is the fewest parts! (oh and we totally bumped up the size from the original resin. )
Spoiler:
The $666,666 Promise
During the kickstarter campaign I promised that if we reached $666,666 I would create a personal vision of Satan and release it at some point outside of the kickstarter.
The resulting miniature has received much controversy and it's collectors run was sold out in a mere 8 hours. Making it the quickest selling Kingdom Death miniature to date! Since the spirit of the project was rooted in a promise I made during the campaign, we are taking pre-orders for an encore run. Something we do not normally do, due to the logistical challenges involved with resin production. ( It's slow, and super expensive).
I wanted to make sure any interested backers did not miss their opportunity. Here is the link to them on the store. I understand this will not be for everyone, it is again, another unrestrained exploration and to me, it makes a lot of sense.
http://shop.kingdomdeath.com/collections/in-stock/products/satan
The Boon, The Delay and the Gamble
I am arranging for some kind of miniature related boon to help ease the pain of the delay. I realize that at this point it is a mere formality, but I feel it is the least I can do.
In addition, we will use the extra time to continue to polish and round out the content of the projects many expansions. Polish is a lot less tangible then say, an extra miniature. But the effort and time that goes into it, is often many many times more resource intensive. More art for additional story events, more gear and more interactive elements to make each expansion more satisfying to add to your campaign.
I realize that this might not make a lot of sense to many of you, but my perspective is to whole-heartedly gamble on Kingdom Death: Monster with everything we've got. This means, that our extra time won't be spent chasing new products or projects. Nor will we be planning a new kickstarter with the time. Instead we will be pouring it, an urn full of liquid creativity and effort back over everything like a thick gravy. More art, more content, and more depth, added in small thoughtful slices and scattered throughout the project as a whole.
While I cannot personally speed up the physical miniature production anymore then I have. I can certainly use every second and continue to squeeze in as much as possible while the window on manufacturing closes.
That is my commitment to you backers and to this project. It will continue to get, everything I can possibly give it, until it is finished and speeding towards your front door. This means a great deal to me.
Oh and another thing. You will get Kingdom Death:Monster before anyone else in the world. It will be, physically in your hands before I send even a single box anywhere else, for any reason. It will not be available at your local game store, while you are waiting for your rewards to arrive. And it won't be sold online via amazon at a discount while you wait either. I understand and can respect the business and logistical sense of moving product into distribution aggressively. And perhaps it's just getting really late / early. But I don't care! You come FIRST.
You are more important then distributors, more important then board game reviewers, and more important then retail stores. When it comes to Kingdom Death: Monster, you backers are the most important. We made a commitment together and beyond my most eternal gratitude I promised the utmost peak, the pinnacle of what I could reach with my team.
And that polished gem is exactly what I will deliver. The best I can manage, nothing more and nothing less.
Schmapdi wrote: The update mentioned the pledge manager (now re-opened) has an updated list on the MSRP of Kingdom Death: Monster stuff. If someone could be persuaded to post that list it would be much appreciated.
He hasn't updated the MSRP prices yet (the images are still the old ones with the old MSRP) the new price changes are still at a KS discounted price the MSRP will be higher again. The Dragon King went from $30 KS price (MSRP $65) to $45 new KS price no MSRP yet but it could be $75 - $80 MSRP.
I posted the changes on the KS thread - these are the ones that changed (these are all KS prices not MSRP)
Flower Knight was $15 now $25
Man Hunter was $20 now $25
Dragon King was $30 now $45
Gorm was $40 now $45
Spidicules was $40 now $45
Kingsmen x25 was $50 now $75 - KS Exclusive
All Armour Kits (20 mini version) was $50 now $75 - KS Exclusive
50 bases was $40 now $50
I wish I had enough money to just go ahead and get a whole base game for myself just to have it. I think I'll probably wind up adding in the Slenderman and the Spiral Messenger. I'm glad I already got those other expansions. That Flower Knight is easily one of the coolest figures in the game. I almost want to get a second. Now if only the Smoke and Storm Knights got added in.
can't say anything else than called it. Sure I understand that delay can and will happen, but I think that KS projects should really stop putting relase date that they can't achieve. I stopped funding projects because im so tired of the delay. As I said previously, I don't expect tp get this before winter, which will make them a good year late. At least the quality seems to be insanely good, so I won't complain too much.
Delay is fine. The communication is existent and that's just good enough. The promise of quality is backed up with promising pictures with no attempts at hiding imperfections.
I'm still anticipating pictures of the Spidicules model.
Delays seem to be a fact of KS's. At least this one has very good reasons to delay, and doesn't keep people in the dark about it, which is a damn sight better than some others I've backed.
Absolutionis wrote: Delay is fine. The communication is existent and that's just good enough. The promise of quality is backed up with promising pictures with no attempts at hiding imperfections.
I'm still anticipating pictures of the Spidicules model.
well that's something i just cant agree on. A few weeks delay is ok, but a year delay, not so much
Absolutionis wrote: Delay is fine. The communication is existent and that's just good enough. The promise of quality is backed up with promising pictures with no attempts at hiding imperfections.
I'm still anticipating pictures of the Spidicules model.
well that's something i just cant agree on. A few weeks delay is ok, but a year delay, not so much
I agree. I am considering just putting my pledge manager account up for sale... I am invest over 500.00 in this and am starting to think I want to get out from under it. I do not think we will see this game in 2014.
Absolutionis wrote: Delay is fine. The communication is existent and that's just good enough. The promise of quality is backed up with promising pictures with no attempts at hiding imperfections.
I'm still anticipating pictures of the Spidicules model.
well that's something i just cant agree on. A few weeks delay is ok, but a year delay, not so much
I agree. I am considering just putting my pledge manager account up for sale... I am invest over 500.00 in this and am starting to think I want to get out from under it. I do not think we will see this game in 2014.
Really? I would be surprised if we don't have this by the end of summer.
Schmapdi wrote: The update mentioned the pledge manager (now re-opened) has an updated list on the MSRP of Kingdom Death: Monster stuff. If someone could be persuaded to post that list it would be much appreciated.
He hasn't updated the MSRP prices yet (the images are still the old ones with the old MSRP) the new price changes are still at a KS discounted price the MSRP will be higher again. The Dragon King went from $30 KS price (MSRP $65) to $45 new KS price no MSRP yet but it could be $75 - $80 MSRP.
I posted the changes on the KS thread - these are the ones that changed (these are all KS prices not MSRP)
Flower Knight was $15 now $25
Man Hunter was $20 now $25
Dragon King was $30 now $45
Gorm was $40 now $45
Spidicules was $40 now $45
Kingsmen x25 was $50 now $75 - KS Exclusive
All Armour Kits (20 mini version) was $50 now $75 - KS Exclusive
50 bases was $40 now $50
Damn. I was planning to add a bunch of the armour kits when I heard the pledge manager was reopening. May have to rethink that with a 50% price hike. Wonder what the MSRP will be if $75 is the discounted KS price..
Really? I would be surprised if we don't have this by the end of summer.
I'm expecting Sept/Oct now. There are still a ton of kits that haven't been shown yet - some images in the pledge manager still show concept art. Not that I mind, I'd rather something be 2 years behind schedule and amazing, than on time and half-assed.
Absolutionis wrote: Delay is fine. The communication is existent and that's just good enough. The promise of quality is backed up with promising pictures with no attempts at hiding imperfections.
I'm still anticipating pictures of the Spidicules model.
well that's something i just cant agree on. A few weeks delay is ok, but a year delay, not so much
Delays happen. When they're to improve quality and to ensure quality control, you should actually be happy about it.
That's the case here.
Looks like I may end up adding everything I didn't previously (a few pin ups and the tree and the lion king dude).
Are a lot of you getting additional armor packs too?
With as much professionalism as Adams been showing on this project, I am willing to give him the time he needs to make this happen the way he visions it. His communication is excellent, his quality of product beyond compare, and his vision is solid with planning, execution, and follow-through.
Compared to other well known "Companies" its hard to remember that this is a few people running this train as efficiently as possible in this climate of "WANT MOWER SHINNIES NOWZ!!!" of KS land.
And as an added punch, he reopened the pledge manager, continues to communicate with backers on a regular basis, and has the bases covered with communication both up and down the line, 110% better then a few fortune 500 CEO's I know of and a certain company who has represented itself quite beligerently with the letters C and D.
I am as stoked now, almost a year or two later as I was the first time I saw this game. I will take the game when it comes, and if the delays bring a quality product, then the time is well spent.
...and don't forget that on top of all that, he's going to be adding in another 'freebie' of some sort by way 'apology' and thankfulness for everyone's patience.
Plus, due to the delays, we've been getting a lot more goodies added into the sprues. I don't think Slenderman was originally going to come with those "Gloomy" weapons or the cello. Same with that helmet piece that's in with the Flower Knight.
I agree that his communication is top notch, and his reason for the delay are comprehensible and valid. Still, i'm a bit pissed off about having to wait. Mayber because one of the few other ks I backed is relic knight, and this one is also hopelessly late.
Though, I have to say that i'm still super excited and interested by this project, cause as some said, it look like we'll get a real good quality product, while I couldn't less about relic knight now. In fact, if anyone want to have my relic knights pledge, I would be happy to sell it
tormund wrote: I think a lot of this could be improved if people just made revised shipping dates when the scope of their project swells
They can't change it once it's posted on the KS page is my understanding, but I agree.
With this delay it's not like it's because things are being mismanaged. It's because gak didn't look as good as it should have. I don't know how you can be mad about that.
I've sunk a large amount of $$$ into this KS. Whilst I love the KD models and I'm happy to wait, there are some alarm bells ringing........
If Adam has recieved the model or sprue, is unhappy with the detail / quality, then that mould need to be re worked or even a new one made. This costs $$$$. So recently we've had some exclusive resins released (I myself picked up a Satan) which was described by many as a cash grab. Pre-Orders (and therefore more $$$$) are being taken for a second run of these exclusives. And now, the KS pledge manager has been reopened, which again, will bring in more $$$$.
Call me sceptical, I'm now wondering if $$$$ is becoming an issue for Mr Poots? Yes you can read all the updates, and read that Mr Poots is a top guy who's doing everything for the backers, but I can't help thinking with recent events if there is more to this..............
Damn. I was planning to add a bunch of the armour kits when I heard the pledge manager was reopening. May have to rethink that with a 50% price hike. Wonder what the MSRP will be if $75 is the discounted KS price..
The $50/$75 20 miniature kits were for the KS only they won't be sold retail only the 4 miniature packs will.
I hope he sorts out the EU shipping option, as the custom tax otherwise would hit a lot of backers. For some countries, the tax is an another 20-25% and then an additional fee. Hell, I'd add another 20% of my pledge to the pledge manager if KD would make sure that my backage is shipped from within the EU.
For some countries, like mine its an extra 28% (and if he uses some courier companies such as UPS or FEDEX and extra 80-120 EU fee, just because) so, yes, I really hope he sorts the EU shipping.
TheSecretSquig wrote: I've sunk a large amount of $$$ into this KS. Whilst I love the KD models and I'm happy to wait, there are some alarm bells ringing........
If Adam has recieved the model or sprue, is unhappy with the detail / quality, then that mould need to be re worked or even a new one made. This costs $$$$. So recently we've had some exclusive resins released (I myself picked up a Satan) which was described by many as a cash grab. Pre-Orders (and therefore more $$$$) are being taken for a second run of these exclusives. And now, the KS pledge manager has been reopened, which again, will bring in more $$$$.
Call me sceptical, I'm now wondering if $$$$ is becoming an issue for Mr Poots? Yes you can read all the updates, and read that Mr Poots is a top guy who's doing everything for the backers, but I can't help thinking with recent events if there is more to this..............
Discuss.
As far as I can tell, he's been smart with his money. I'm not sure what the relationship is with the factory, but I doubt they are charging him too much more if the detail isn't there.
In terms of limited resins, that's how all his releases run. Why did he do a preorder? To appease his fans who wanted the models but didn't get in on the first release.
I think reading into the delays as money issues is a fool's game. Perfection is the illness Poots suffers from. And that's a vice I can forgive in this instance.
Unlike some KS projects out there, Poots is honest imho. If something isn't up to his set standards, he outright says so in an update, instead of just tossing it out there like some afterthought. Added bonus, we're not treated like idiots in a condescending way. My brother (co-backer in this expensive venture) is pissed off that there is yet another delay, but I've got faith and I know the final result will be totes worth it.
To echo the other European backers, I do hope for a reasonable shipping option for us.
TheSecretSquig wrote: I've sunk a large amount of $$$ into this KS. Whilst I love the KD models and I'm happy to wait, there are some alarm bells ringing........
If Adam has recieved the model or sprue, is unhappy with the detail / quality, then that mould need to be re worked or even a new one made. This costs $$$$. So recently we've had some exclusive resins released (I myself picked up a Satan) which was described by many as a cash grab. Pre-Orders (and therefore more $$$$) are being taken for a second run of these exclusives. And now, the KS pledge manager has been reopened, which again, will bring in more $$$$.
Call me sceptical, I'm now wondering if $$$$ is becoming an issue for Mr Poots? Yes you can read all the updates, and read that Mr Poots is a top guy who's doing everything for the backers, but I can't help thinking with recent events if there is more to this..............
Discuss.
It would indeed be very expensive to rework a mold, which is exactly why the factory doesn't cut the mold until AFTER the client has signed off on the designs and layouts. Now, it's saddening that they haven't gotten to THAT point, which means milling and production are still ahead of us but in terms of money things are likely where they ought to be. This is part of the expected negotiation between art and engineering that was paid for, not an additional cost. However, time is a factor because of warehousing costs rising on all the other components that arrive sooner than the plastic.
In regards to the other points; the resin Satan was promised during the KS, to be sold outside of the KS, and is right in line with what you'd pay for other KD products. The Pin-Up set that was sold would be far more readily likened to a "cash grab" since it came out of left field and were things you could already have bought. However, it was undoubtedly WGF's "proof we can do it to the level you want" project, and once the molds (i.e. - the expensive part) were cut it's silly to not sell them.
You need to start worrying about the money situation when he DOESN'T delay because he's unhappy. When "good enough" trumps his perfectionism, that's the sign that the money is nearly gone.
Aye, this isn't like Raging Heroes, where they made an off-hand remark about their own funds in their ongoing quest for perfection and being the best at being the best.
Of course, I'm slightly bummed about the delay, but I know it's for the best. I remain cautiously optimistic that it will ship out/US backers will have it in August/September.
That said, the gloom and flower weapons are freaking awesome and unexpected.
Back in September, the last time the pledge manager reopen was allowed, I had to decide between lonely tree and slender man or spidicules and decided on the former. Glad I had 1 more opportunity to add spidicules to my pledge.
What's funny is every other project I've been part of that has had major delays, I've found myself wishing I could take some add-ons back, but only KD makes me want to give Poots more money with each update.
I don't think Poots is having financial problems. I'm sure he has burnt through a ton of capital making this, however all he has to do is release a new resin mini that will be sold out in a week and he has raised several thousand dollars for his company/self (I am assuming this is helping pay his living expenses while monster is being completed).
I also have stuck a ton of cash into this (around 1500 in January 2013), including almost 1 of every expansion and resin/plastic pinups, promos, etc. Prices are going up with the pledge manager as I'm sure the cost of business, tooling, and plastic has been going up since January of 2013. I for one am not worried and have the upmost confidence in Mr. Poots. He is a stellar guy and has been great to deal with everytime I have had contact with him (that and he is a fellow game lover so you know this will be good!)
I can't wait to get this game in my hands! It will be an awesome game, especially with how detail oriented Poots is. I know the delays suck, but it's not like we are having massive delays only to get average board game quality minis or gameplay... these are KD minis!
Sasori wrote: Whelp, I went ahead and added the Slender man and Lonely tree.
I added those, the Flower Knight, and the Lantern Festival.
I didn't have a ton of scratch lying around when this first came out. Not that I have a ton now, but those plastics....
I was really busy on the last day, so I didn't get to adjust my pledges then. At the time, I really didn't like the Slenderman and Lonely tree. I do now though, so I went ahead and added those. The Gloom weapons are really nice.
1. The deal I made with the factory is a fixed price. When we fail to meet quality standards and have to cut a new tool, it is at there loss. My job is to ensure that our investment meets what we expect. That is my commitment to the project and the backers.
2. Satan was not a cash grab. It was a promise made during the kickstarter and fulfilled. I was challenged to create my own personal vision, and so I have. If I were Satan, that is the form I would choose!
3. The kickstarter is in no fiscal jeopardy. I am EXTREMELY conservative when it comes to budgets. The money to print, finish production and ship has been locked away since the kickstarter ended. It will not be touched for anything else. Sadly, this does mean that our monthly operations have little cushion. Thankfully, the sales from the resin releases keep us going. If the game is well received and If the sales post kickstarter are good, the future for KD is very bright indeed. But I cannot count on that, until it happens.
If I ever run a kickstarter again, I would never run it in such a way where a literal mountain of products are held hostage until they are all finished. I would need to think about an alternative solution, perhaps not take shipping money up front and allow people access to a system wherein they could ship themselves rewards as they become available.
But this, lol. Yeah it has certainly been a growing experience!
Not being able to change existing items was a bit of a kick in the pants, but it's my own fault for dithering so long. Added a copy of the game, and a couple of big expansions.
It sounds like I'm in the same boat as you Elemental there are some peices I would have liked to change. The only thing to do now is pick what I want and try to ebay the misspicked stuff.
To Adam, as a european it would be fine with me if a delay in shipping could reduce the taxes/postage a bit. I bought the game to play during wintertime anyway
If I ever run a kickstarter again, I would never run it in such a way where a literal mountain of products are held hostage until they are all finished. I would need to think about an alternative solution, perhaps not take shipping money up front and allow people access to a system wherein they could ship themselves rewards as they become available.
HLJ offers a service like this when you order from them, "Private Warehouse".
Its really nice to be able to preorder a bunch of stuff and then not have to worry about paying $8~16 per item in shipping from Japan as they are released.
If I ever run a kickstarter again, I would never run it in such a way where a literal mountain of products are held hostage until they are all finished. I would need to think about an alternative solution, perhaps not take shipping money up front and allow people access to a system wherein they could ship themselves rewards as they become available.
But this, lol. Yeah it has certainly been a growing experience!
Definitely the way to do it....btu the BEST way is also to not offer the option for anything other than split shipping. It does become problematic.
1. The deal I made with the factory is a fixed price. When we fail to meet quality standards and have to cut a new tool, it is at there loss. My job is to ensure that our investment meets what we expect. That is my commitment to the project and the backers.
2. Satan was not a cash grab. It was a promise made during the kickstarter and fulfilled. I was challenged to create my own personal vision, and so I have. If I were Satan, that is the form I would choose!
3. The kickstarter is in no fiscal jeopardy. I am EXTREMELY conservative when it comes to budgets. The money to print, finish production and ship has been locked away since the kickstarter ended. It will not be touched for anything else. Sadly, this does mean that our monthly operations have little cushion. Thankfully, the sales from the resin releases keep us going. If the game is well received and If the sales post kickstarter are good, the future for KD is very bright indeed. But I cannot count on that, until it happens.
If I ever run a kickstarter again, I would never run it in such a way where a literal mountain of products are held hostage until they are all finished. I would need to think about an alternative solution, perhaps not take shipping money up front and allow people access to a system wherein they could ship themselves rewards as they become available.
But this, lol. Yeah it has certainly been a growing experience!
How long is the pledge manager going to stay open for? I could really do with waiting it out until my next pay-check.
also if you can find a way to ship from within Europe so we don't all get smashed by import duty (as previously stated a lot of companies charge a handling fee on top of the duty, some as high as £70 ($105 ish).
Not to mention this thread was started by a non-mod non-DCM.
I hate that I missed to pledge window- I was hoping to snag Spidicules and the Lonely Tree. I had to limit myself the first go-round, and had to make some hard choices. Oh well, I guess that just means Adam and an LGS will just make more money at retail!
Just curious, after you added funds through PayPal, what message did you get? I got redirected to a "success" page, but no other indication of what I added. Got a receipt and such, but nothing mentioning any locked in items. Sent a message to Adam and Anna, but I was wondering what happened to other pledgers.
I'm still waiting to hear back from Anna about upping to Survivor.
How quick are they about turnaround on answering questions? I'm sure her and Poots have been inundated with questions and requests, and I don't want to be pushy, but I also don't want to miss the chance to upgrade if it's at all possible.
Sinful Hero wrote: Just curious, after you added funds through PayPal, what message did you get? I got redirected to a "success" page, but no other indication of what I added. Got a receipt and such, but nothing mentioning any locked in items. Sent a message to Adam and Anna, but I was wondering what happened to other pledgers.
Same experience here, I don't think the pledge manager "locks" in per se until Poots decides to close it down. It appears to operate more like backerkit where you can keep adding in and paying until the lockdown. Luckily, I have everything I want now.
As you add things and pay for them, are they added to your pledge though? I'm not seeing any confirmation that it even recognizes I added anything at all.
2. an email from support (at) kingdomdeath.com that says
"Below is a summary of the rewards you have added to your original pledge."
(so it does not mention the old stuff, that is covered by the email you got when you filled out the pledge manager for the first time, probably because they are treating these things as two separate databases as the prices have now changed)
I did get confirmation for the stuff I added. If I remember correctly the info page shows your original pledge and order/backer info but scrolling down to the bottom shows a section with a title along the lines of 'optional add-ons.' That's the place where I saw confirmation of everything I added.
I also got a cofirmation email sent to my kickstarter-linked email account. It also listed my addons.
Ah, sorry, thought you meant you got the KD receipt, not the Paypal receipt. I had that same issue with the original pledge manager when I used an iPad. For some reason, the redirect back to the pledge manager never happened. E-mailed Anna and within a few hours she had updated the pledge manager with the funds. Good luck.
The king looks to be made almost entirely of babies, you can see more inside the cloak too, and the 'head' looks to be held up by a load of baby arms too
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: The king looks to be made almost entirely of babies, you can see more inside the cloak too, and the 'head' looks to be held up by a load of baby arms too
I think those are full-grown humans. The King is rather tall and many KD monsters tend to have a human-hands motif.
How quick are they about turnaround on answering questions? I'm sure her and Poots have been inundated with questions and requests, and I don't want to be pushy, but I also don't want to miss the chance to upgrade if it's at all possible.
Just got everything worked out, so anecdotal evidence suggests a couple hours/same day for replies.
I was sure that I wouldn't need the pledge manager open again. But I'm very tempted to pick up some doubles to allow greater customisation (or guilt free mix and match of additional armour sets), alternate paint schemes and practice pieces. I'd better look to see what change has fallen down the sofa.
Core Game - $200
Flower Knight - $50
Man Hunter - $50
Lion Knight - $50
Dragon King - $80
Gorm - $80
Dung Beetle Knight - $50
Spidicules - $80
Sunstalker - $80
Lion God - $50
Lantern Festival - $80
Slender Man - $50
Lonely Tree - $60
(all expansions bought through KS are currently budgeted to get the full retail packaging)
Yikes. Fear of retail pricing is one of the things that kept me from going big into the KS. I'm glad I didn't take the plunge. Too pricey for me to add onto later at retail, especially given Poot's stance on retail discounts.
I'm thinking of adding a Lantern Festival to my pledge. Would anyone be interested in buying the Scribe figure or any of the cards/not-minis? Also, any interest in the not-minis included with the Dragon King?
I would also support a "in order of money paid (including shipping) from most to least" model, as I'm pretty sure I'd be decently near the top there too. Heck I'd even drive up to NYC if there was a pick-up option. Visit some friends in the area, pick up a sizable box of boobs and penis monsters. You know, like ya do...
*orders collection* At least the exchange rate is fairly friendly. 
. It doesn't excuse Wargames Factory's massive delays on other campaigns, though, and this is just another notch on that...
