Remember, you don't need to be as stoked about the quads, since you'll only ever field one, but you'd damn well like the bipedal mechs, because those will be the meat of your force.
Stupid question, but I'm always in awe of people who can draw: Paulson, is that your pencil work we've been seeing for the past few weeks, or is all artwork, from the ground up, being commissioned?
I'm hoping to have a formal announcement the monday after Adepticon. (April 22nd) I can't promise 100% for sure but I'm hoping to have things finalized then.
For the people attending Adepticon I'll be running a couple demo's in the evening if I can manage to wrangle the table space.
I like the Blackfrost quad, but it doesn't quite blow me away like the light and heavy Blackfrosts did. Still like it though
Yeah it's a solid design which I'm happy with, it's not quite as imposing as the other two but not every thing can be a grandslam. It is a bit lighter so it's a bit quicker than the other quads and has slightly better defense as a result, but quads on the whole are still slow no matter how "quick" they may be. My personal favorite design so far is the NorAm quad followed very closely by the Blackfrost heavy.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Remember, you don't need to be as stoked about the quads, since you'll only ever field one, but you'd damn well like the bipedal mechs, because those will be the meat of your force.
This would be a good assement. Most you'd ever need is one and it tends to be a showcase model sort of like the collosals in warmachine. Really helpful if you have one (and hopefully fun) but the mainstay of the force is the mix of smaller mecha.
Stupid question, but I'm always in awe of people who can draw: Paulson, is that your pencil work we've been seeing for the past few weeks, or is all artwork, from the ground up, being commissioned?
Short answer is I'm invovled with the art but it's a mix.
It's comissioned work all being done digitally. Anthony sketches on a wacom tablet which is sort of like drawing on the computer screen with an electronic pen. I give him a lot of reference ideas for what I want and general ideas behind the mecha. There's usually a couple rough sketches in between that get tossed before we nail down the final look. It's a pretty colabritive process which I enjoy doing. We also BS a lot about differant mech games and what we like and dislike and how to make this stand out as it's own thing. It's very fun to be involved with the process on livestream. The downside is that we both keep crazy late nigt hours so it's hard to catch our work online.
I'm capable of drawing stuff on my own (I was an art major) but I'm so buried with getting everything ready that I needed additional help. I'm doing all the 3d work as well as the card and PDF graphics which is a pretty heavy workload on top of the writing. The color art that's slowly being revealed is a mix of both 2d and 3d, using the original sketches I built a 3d model, then Anthony drew a digital painting over the 3d render. That way the propotions will be the same as the eventual physical model. It also speeds up the painting process as some of the realism as it gives a proper display of lighting and shadows on the piece.
Anyways onto the next puzzle pieces, I'm a big meanie and can't let you have too much fun right away so there's one last useless piece, but from here out the rest will all have some meat to them.
From doing some digging online I have a small amount of familiarity with their mecha but only what I've seen from the game covers and a few screen shots, same with steel battlalions. However I haven't played either of them due to not having an xbox. I wish they would have also made them for the PS2 or PS3 but they are sadly system exclusive. I always thought they looked cool from what little I've seen but I have no first hand experience with them.
No grids are used. It plays as a standard table top game like warmachine, or stuff from the company who shall not be named.
Just got in the first playtest game since the rules were roughed out and it went well. Pacing and game flow kept very close to how I had intended at skirmish level. Noticed a few minor typos which will be an easy fix.
paulson games wrote: No grids are used. It plays as a standard table top game like warmachine, or stuff from the company who shall not be named.
Just got in the first playtest game since the rules were roughed out and it went well. Pacing and game flow kept very close to how I had intended at skirmish level. Noticed a few minor typos which will be an easy fix.
Awesome Thought that's how it played Grid based mech combat just seems slow paced
What really turned me off of Battletech, back in the day, was the hex grid. I could not get into my head why it was so easy to run straight in one direction but completely impossible in the other. You had to go forward, turn, forward, turn again... ad nauseam. And you could really face how you wanted too.
Speaking of facing: Are the mechs going to be on square bases? Or round bases that we can easily quarter? I'm assuming, maybe wrongly, that facing is going to be relevant for fire arcs and damage purposes, but I could be wrong.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: What really turned me off of Battletech, back in the day, was the hex grid. I could not get into my head why it was so easy to run straight in one direction but completely impossible in the other. You had to go forward, turn, forward, turn again... ad nauseam. And you could really face how you wanted too.
... You could turn in place. I'm not sure what you're saying here.
Even with that, 1 hex = 1" and 1" of movement = up to 60 degrees of turn is trivial to figure out and iirc was talked about as an option in one of the rule books (too lazy to break mine out - the one with the color magazine style page inserts)
Speaking of facing: Are the mechs going to be on square bases? Or round bases that we can easily quarter? I'm assuming, maybe wrongly, that facing is going to be relevant for fire arcs and damage purposes, but I could be wrong.
The mecha will be mounted on 60mm round bases, and 120mm round for the quads.
I'm trying to keep things streamlined so front facing is the forward 180 degrees. Rear arc is the back 180. Changing facing during your turn does not cost any movement or actions, that's something that has always driven me nuts with battletech (as well as the grids). It worked well for old school games but belongs back in the 80's.
I'll work out something special for the dakkanaughts as you guys have been very supportive and I apreciate it.
You couldn't end up in half spaces, however. And turning was considered a move. If you only had three for your turn, it was going to take you a long time to step sideways four spaces.
Just finished a round of play testing of Mecha Front. Being a mecha neophyte, my brain was swimming for the first few turns but once I got the mechanics down, it flowed ever so nicely
mad robot wrote: Just finished a round of play testing of Mecha Front. Being a mecha neophyte, my brain was swimming for the first few turns but once I got the mechanics down, it flowed ever so nicely
mad robot wrote: Just finished a round of play testing of Mecha Front. Being a mecha neophyte, my brain was swimming for the first few turns but once I got the mechanics down, it flowed ever so nicely
Hands down, this game will make you happy!
Sweet! Wish I was going to be at AdeptiCon to try it out.
mad robot wrote: Just finished a round of play testing of Mecha Front. Being a mecha neophyte, my brain was swimming for the first few turns but once I got the mechanics down, it flowed ever so nicely
Hands down, this game will make you happy!
Sweet! Wish I was going to be at AdeptiCon to try it out.
So I'll be sure to see if I can't take plenty of pictures and showing how much fun I'm having?
paulson games wrote: From doing some digging online I have a small amount of familiarity with their mecha but only what I've seen from the game covers and a few screen shots, same with steel battlalions. However I haven't played either of them due to not having an xbox. I wish they would have also made them for the PS2 or PS3 but they are sadly system exclusive. I always thought they looked cool from what little I've seen but I have no first hand experience with them.
Honestly, the Steel Battalion mecha designs are average. They produced a line of Steel Battalion action figures that were great for how accurately they captured the in game mech designs, but were kinda... meh.
An Xbox + the dedicated Steel Battalion controller + a wide screen TV > better than the creaky old Battletech pods that they still rolled out at GenCon last year.
Ain't no other reason to care about Steel Battalion than that.
I've put together the images as I think they should go. I left out one of the blank half-size pics but the rest he's posted to date are there. Some of the images needed to be rotated while others needed to be inverted. Let me know if I've got something wrong. The spoiler tags are used in case there are people who don't want the puzzle "solved" for them prematurely, so please be considerate of others and don't quote this pic without the spoiler tags.
Great looking stuff in that WIP thread. Any idea of when we will see a kickstarter? Theres a lot of good ones on the table right now, and Id hate to allocate all my funds then have yours pop up.
A nice product to be sure, but the reviewer calls it 15mm when in fact it's actually 10mm in scale. It could probably still be used, but doorways are going to look a bit small.
That looks awesome. As the inital stuff will be mehcs only the scale would make the mechs look even larger. While I'm generally scaling it in reference to 15mm figures I'm sure it'd work equally well with 10mm infantry as there's no direct scale translatons for distances or movement.
I've got my own card stock buildings that I made for playtesting, but these look like they'd save a lot of time and printer ink. Between cardstock and ink I probably spent an easy $60-70 so these look every bit as good, require less cutting, and are cheaper. So it looks to be win win purchase.
I'd need to check the building dimensions, but so far it looks to be a total thumbs up to use as a source for Mecha Front scale terrain.
Edit: standard table size for mecha front is 4x4 so one set should be a solid purchase, two would let you get really densely packed tables (which is awesome).
A nice product to be sure, but the reviewer calls it 15mm when in fact it's actually 10mm in scale. It could probably still be used, but doorways are going to look a bit small.
Still, it's a great deal!
I love it, and I will be getting one for sure. The slight difference in size is fine for me, as I never use infantry in my mecha/armor games. Its all about the vehicles baby.
Also of note...The warstore has this listed in the preorder section, $35.99
Good god that's a fantastic Product. We'll be using that for Battletech as soon as its released. And I agree its also perfect for Mecha Front. Unless Paulson makes his own Inf go ahead and use 10mm with his mechs and destroy that city.
Yeah, I don't really mind my mechs looking bigger although I do think they will look towering with that terrain.
However, because it's meant to represent a city full of tall buildings, I believe some of them are as tall as 6" (only the highest). So while the windows and stories may look a little too short/small, the overall size should work, I think!
I showed it to my fiancee and she "tsk, tsked" disapprovingly. She looked at me and said "honey, I thought you were a hobbyist, and loved to spend time building unique pieces."
What's a man to do against such blatant endorsment of my geekiness?
Mathieu Raymond wrote: I showed it to my fiancee and she "tsk, tsked" disapprovingly. She looked at me and said "honey, I thought you were a hobbyist, and loved to spend time building unique pieces."
What's a man to do against such blatant endorsment of my geekiness?
Marry her obviously...
oh you're doing that? Um... Go for the AustonT tried and true suggestion... You'd have to be a DCM to see that though...
Mathieu Raymond wrote: I showed it to my fiancee and she "tsk, tsked" disapprovingly. She looked at me and said "honey, I thought you were a hobbyist, and loved to spend time building unique pieces."
What's a man to do against such blatant endorsment of my geekiness?
My wife said "cheap and we dont have to paint it? get one".
You'd think that a guy in his mid-30s would have better things to do on a friday night then sit around posting up mecha pictures on the internet. Fortunately for you I have no such life so here's the last 3 pieces. I even made them nice and easy.
As a guy in his mid thirties, I can only say that if they were my own mecha pics for my own mecha game, I'd be all up in your grill with them, too, Friday be damned.
Keep it rolling, dude. I'm in on the ground floor.
paulson games wrote: You'd think that a guy in his mid-30s would have better things to do on a friday night then sit around posting up mecha pictures on the internet.
Wait till you hit your mid-40s, you'll be on the internet on a Friday night solving other people's picture puzzles.
Once again, please be considerate of others and don't quote this pic without the spoiler tags.
Beautiful work, Breotan!! Thanks for solving it for us . I have a feeling now that you have done so, paulson will be posting the unsegemented version in here pretty soon
Fix wrote: As a guy in his mid thirties, I can only say that if they were my own mecha pics for my own mecha game, I'd be all up in your grill with them, too, Friday be damned.
Keep it rolling, dude. I'm in on the ground floor.
I'm hitting 30 this year, is this what I have to look forward to!?
Im mid-30s as well...but I worked friday night, so no mecha fun for me.
On the note of terrain...in addition to the above mentioned DZC terrain set, I just ordered 3 sets of ruined buildings and 2 sets of billboards from Proxy Models. Ive ordered some bases from Proxy in the past, and he makes a good product. The billboards should be neat, as they are just a frame meant to use business cards as the artwork area of the billboard.
Paulson, ever thought about making a 28mm version and pricing it out, just to satisfy the 28mm fans?
28mm versions aren't going to happen. It's very difficult to work in that scale, the cost of making the master is insanely high and the price point for each model done in resin would be entering titan territory which isn't good when there's no supporting game they can be part of. (and I have no intention of doing a 28mm rules set)
In order to go up in scale it requires redesigning the details for entire CAD model and that's not a small task.
Oh well, thanks for the answer, even if it's not what I wanted to hear. Maybe make a 28mm version available over Shapeways?
Technically, this is the same aesthetic as the new Mechwarrior Online.
But since those designs are custom to that game, and will never see the tabletop, it's fair enough that Paulson has probably hired similar mech fans to produce his designs.
I think he confirmed earlier in the thread that there would be definitely be rules for customization, but that "standard" mech loadouts would have a bit of a discount (due to their being supposedly mass-produced in that configuration, which makes sense).
My current parts might be useable on some of the heavier mecha, but I won't know until I'm done with the models. (They'd likely take some kit bashing to fit) The detail level on the Mecha Front stuff will be higher so I don't expect to see a lot of crossover. I will be making weapon sprues of the Mecha Front designs as they'll be able to be swapped between the mechs both with the way the models are constructed and also with the mech construction rules.
Some of the light and medium weapons may need to be made in metal as they may end up being too thin for resin. I won't know until I get the prints finished.
As far as Cav I like their models but they also have their own design style, if they decide to expand on their line I hope they continue with what they have as I'm a fan of their stuff. IMO there's also a lot the seperates the Mecha Front designs from Mechwarrior / Battletech, there are a few base line simularities but anyone versed in the BT setting can easily spot differances. (for starters I don't have any humanoid mecha) My illustrator has done art for battletech but we both feel the Mecha Front designs are their own animal. We're both huge fans of numerous mecha genres and we've had many long discussions on how to make the look and feel of the line unique, which I feel that we've done rather well.
It's been a slow week as I've been rushing to get everything ready for Adepticon, I'm hoping to have some more tangible work posted shortly.
Now that everyone has had some time to piece the grid pics together or at least take a peek at Breotan's spoiler here's the complete art.
Also a thanks to Breotan for taking the time to share his puzzle solving skills with everyone. It probably wasn't an entirely fair challenge in that it needed photshop or editing software to asemble properly, but as I said before I'm a big meanie and thems the breaks if you want an early sneek peak
Now that everyone has had some time to piece the grid pics together or at least take a peek at Breotan's spoiler here's the complete art.
Also a thanks to Breotan for taking the time to share his puzzle solving skills with everyone. It probably wasn't an entirely fair challenge in that it needed photshop or editing software to asemble properly, but as I said before I'm a big meanie and thems the breaks if you want an early sneek peak
Will the quad mechs be able to move in all directions without turning, or will they have facing like the bipedal mechs? If the latter, then the design is great, but if the former then maybe the feet should have three or four "toes."
Looking at some of the other renders, I'm thinking that the legs are more forward facing when it's moving and the splayed out stance, as in the colour render, might be for a stable firing platform.
My card city pack shipped from the Warstore today- if you order one right now you might be able to use it to demo on (or just have the Warstore bring it there, or buy it there if they have it on sale).
RiTides wrote: My card city pack shipped from the Warstore today- if you order one right now you might be able to use it to demo on (or just have the Warstore bring it there, or buy it there if they have it on sale).
I spent 3 hours cutting stuff out last night and I'm likely spending all day today taping and gluing stuff together. It may sound kinda close but last year I was doing this all the night before so I'm way ahead of schedual.
The concept art doesn't always convey a sense of size, the dropcarriers are huge. They are large enough to carry two smaller mecha or a single Quad. If you were looking at a physical model it'd probably have about 10 inch wingspan.
It's hard to say if I'm going to make a model for them or not, there are rules for mecha performing hot drops into the combat zone via being dropped from the carriers but they are usually unarmed so they run as soon as they deploy the mechs. I wanted to include some art for them as it helps fill in some mental visuals of what the mechanics represent. Plus they'll probably be featured in some of the later illustrations showing combat scenes.
paulson games wrote: It's hard to say if I'm going to make a model for them or not, there are rules for mecha performing hot drops into the combat zone via being dropped from the carriers but they are usually unarmed so they run as soon as they deploy the mechs. I wanted to include some art for them as it helps fill in some mental visuals of what the mechanics represent. Plus they'll probably be featured in some of the later illustrations showing combat scenes.
If you could make it actually carry the mechs (in bays or somethnig) I'd buy one. In a heartbeat.
Fafnir wrote: Absolutely loving the hell out of the Blackfrost mechs. Can't wait to see them in mini form.
Loving the looks as well. I've gotten over them not having heads. Still a little odd that they don't have arms, but I'm getting over that quickly, and it makes sense.
I will be attending Adepticon this weekend. During the evenings I'll be demoing Mecha Front (in theDemo Hall). Swing by to get an early preview of the game play and view the pre-production artwork.
I will have a formal announcement regarding the Kickstarter on Monday the 22nd. Those of you at Adepticon will get to hear about it a few days in advance. I'm very excited about this next step and I know you've all been waiting patiently. The wait is almost over.
You guys are what makes all this happen and I couldn't do it without your support. I always love meeting my customers and hearing your feedback. So please drop by the demo hall and say hi if you get the chance.
I'd say look for the heavy set guy in glasses but its a gaming convention and that's not much help. So instead look for the table covered in buildings and 3 inch tall mechs.
I will be attending Adepticon this weekend. During the evenings I'll be demoing Mecha Front (in theDemo Hall). Swing by to get an early preview of the game play and view the pre-production artwork.
I will have a formal announcement regarding the Kickstarter on Monday the 22nd. Those of you at Adepticon will get to hear about it a few days in advance. I'm very excited about this next step and I know you've all been waiting patiently. The wait is almost over.
You guys are what makes all this happen and I couldn't do it without your support. I always love meeting my customers and hearing your feedback. So please drop by the demo hall and say hi if you get the chance.
I'd say look for the heavy set guy in glasses but its a gaming convention and that's not much help. So instead look for the table covered in buildings and 3 inch tall mechs.
Looking forward to seeing you guys at Adepticon!
Can't wait... you should stop by Booth 23 and show us at OTL
Fafnir wrote: Absolutely loving the hell out of the Blackfrost mechs. Can't wait to see them in mini form.
Loving the looks as well. I've gotten over them not having heads. Still a little odd that they don't have arms, but I'm getting over that quickly, and it makes sense.
I love the designs...its a great change from the giant robot man style of mecha.
Paulson, you need to fast track a mini so we can see these in physical form.
Is Mecha Front going to be using a build your own mech type of system like the old Demonblade Shockforce game or will the mechs be more regimented and strict like Battletech?
Oh boy, I think I just heard the sound of my money wanting to break out of my wallet and buy me some mechs. Can't wait to see what's what when the KS drops.
Warboss: I haven't played either of those games so I'm not sure how the mechanics work. There is mech construction, it's a simplified systems that's based on hard point attachements rather than dealing with weight, heat,, etc like battletech uses. Each class of mecha has a set profile which doesn't change, however you can mount wahtever weapon or equipment options you want provide you have enough available hardpoints.
You can move up for down one class in firepower, for example if you have a medium mecha you can mount a heavy laser on it but it requires additional hard points. Or if you opt for a lighter class weapons like a pair of light lasers it grants two lasers per hard point.
The idea is to give players flexibility in build options so that they can customize mecha based on scenarios scenario requirements or to deal with differant styles of mecha forces. I've always enjoyed custom mechs in games like armored core and battletech so I wanted that to be a part of the game, but I also wanted to make it a streamlined process so that it could be done on the fly and not make game set up overly complicated..
paulson games wrote: Warboss: I haven't played either of those games so I'm not sure how the mechanics work. There is mech construction, it's a simplified systems that's based on hard point attachements rather than dealing with weight, heat,, etc like battletech uses. Each class of mecha has a set profile which doesn't change, however you can mount wahtever weapon or equipment options you want provide you have enough available hardpoints.
You can move up for down one class in firepower, for example if you have a medium mecha you can mount a heavy laser on it but it requires additional hard points. Or if you opt for a lighter class weapons like a pair of light lasers it grants two lasers per hard point.
The idea is to give players flexibility in build options so that they can customize mecha based on scenarios scenario requirements or to deal with differant styles of mecha forces. I've always enjoyed custom mechs in games like armored core and battletech so I wanted that to be a part of the game, but I also wanted to make it a streamlined process so that it could be done on the fly and not make game set up overly complicated..
Thanks. I'm just wondering if you can plug and play any type of minis in (completely constructible) or if you can just tweak existing ones like in Heavy Gear where you can add/subtract a few weapons/systems/features. In essence, could people take their battletech minis and use them with your rules or are the rules going to be specific to your own models? It sounds like you can use existing collections from the description above.
If I remember correctly, mecha are supposed to be on 60mm bases, and quad walkers... I think 120mm beasts. So old Battletech minis would look a bit puny, but to each his own. I wouldn't judge you for it, unless it is clearly MfA.
Battletech minis are roughly half the height of the Mecha Front models. So even the biggest 100 ton mechs would be hardpressed to pass for anything beyond a light mech. For early playtesting I used stuff that was in half scale, so basically mechs on 30mm bases and simular in height to Btech. When using it in smaller scale what we did was to cut all the ranges and movement in half .
Mechwarrior clixs models would likely be a pretty close match in scale.
Shot of a Btech mini vs a Mecha Front Light mech
Same vs Mecha Front Group
Anyways Adepticon has started off well. the night before we had epic amounts of rain; so much that I though I may have to start building an ark and loading in two of every mech to insure their survival. Normally it takes me about 7 minutes to drive to Adepticon, it took me nearly 40 min as almost all of the northbound roads were closed due to being underwater. For a simple local drive it was pretty nuts with a lot of backtracking making it into a very round about path.
Despite thursday normally being a "slow" night there are lots of people plugging away in the 40k qualifiers and I had a chance to sit down and have some in depth conversations with a large miniature company about game design and production elements, as well as the awesome KS campaigns they've run. Very informative stuff and useful networking which will be very helpful when this moves to the next phase. While I didn't run any full on demos tonight I was able to show off concept art and discuss mechanics etc. The response so far has been very positive.
This year the demo section has been moved to the main hall just to the right of the main entrance area so I'll be floating around there at various points during the evening (and possibly during the day depending on available table space)
Here's a color piece that just came in, since the people at Adepticon get to see it right away I figured I'd be fair to the online crowd and skip puzzle games this time around.
That looks even better in color. The size comparison really helps bring home the concept. If possible can you get a picture of it with scale shot of buildings? I know people have talked bout the fold down buildings from drop ship troopers (think that's the game). That might give even more of an idea of size.
Looking good! Does the system have rules for destructible terrain?
Aside from it being fun for templates causing collateral damage, being able to punch holes in / demolish buildings to get los on the enemy....
Or you know... just level a city every now and then.
Wow...I was just looking at the Robotech Ks, and thinking "man I hope Paulson hits us with something good soon, this is getting hard to resist". Well sir, you have satiated me for the moment. However, a good estimate of a Kickstarter release date would be better...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ovion wrote: Looking good! Does the system have rules for destructible terrain?
Aside from it being fun for templates causing collateral damage, being able to punch holes in / demolish buildings to get los on the enemy....
Or you know... just level a city every now and then.
Judging by the desogn these machs arent going to be punching anything. IMO thats good...Im tired of my scifi games devolving into a CC contest.
Mad4Minis wrote: Wow...I was just looking at the Robotech Ks, and thinking "man I hope Paulson hits us with something good soon, this is getting hard to resist". Well sir, you have satiated me for the moment. However, a good estimate of a Kickstarter release date would be better...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ovion wrote: Looking good! Does the system have rules for destructible terrain?
Aside from it being fun for templates causing collateral damage, being able to punch holes in / demolish buildings to get los on the enemy....
Or you know... just level a city every now and then.
Judging by the desogn these machs arent going to be punching anything. IMO thats good...Im tired of my scifi games devolving into a CC contest.
Not familiar with the term 'punching through' for penetrating things and making it out the other side I take it. In this case, punching holes in buildings with high explosives and lasers.
Yes, it will be a refreshing change not to have giant robots with swords (although I love them, let's be honest, it requires quite a bit of suspension of disbelief!).
Mad4Minis wrote: Wow...I was just looking at the Robotech Ks, and thinking "man I hope Paulson hits us with something good soon, this is getting hard to resist". Well sir, you have satiated me for the moment. However, a good estimate of a Kickstarter release date would be better...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ovion wrote: Looking good! Does the system have rules for destructible terrain?
Aside from it being fun for templates causing collateral damage, being able to punch holes in / demolish buildings to get los on the enemy....
Or you know... just level a city every now and then.
Judging by the desogn these machs arent going to be punching anything. IMO thats good...Im tired of my scifi games devolving into a CC contest.
Not familiar with the term 'punching through' for penetrating things and making it out the other side I take it. In this case, punching holes in buildings with high explosives and lasers.
Shooting through a solid/semi-solid object like a building is hell on ballistics, and tends to ruin the penetration ability of a round. Its a shakey tactic at best for anything but the most powerful rounds. Not to mention the loss of shot accuracy. Its a far more sound tactic to wait for a good clear shot, especially when firing against an armored target. Double so if you are firing something that expends tangible ammunition.
Mad4Minis wrote: Wow...I was just looking at the Robotech Ks, and thinking "man I hope Paulson hits us with something good soon, this is getting hard to resist". Well sir, you have satiated me for the moment. However, a good estimate of a Kickstarter release date would be better...
Ovion wrote: Looking good! Does the system have rules for destructible terrain? Aside from it being fun for templates causing collateral damage, being able to punch holes in / demolish buildings to get los on the enemy.... Or you know... just level a city every now and then.
Judging by the desogn these machs arent going to be punching anything. IMO thats good...Im tired of my scifi games devolving into a CC contest.
Not familiar with the term 'punching through' for penetrating things and making it out the other side I take it. In this case, punching holes in buildings with high explosives and lasers. [/spoiler]
Shooting through a solid/semi-solid object like a building is hell on ballistics, and tends to ruin the penetration ability of a round. Its a shakey tactic at best for anything but the most powerful rounds. Not to mention the loss of shot accuracy. Its a far more sound tactic to wait for a good clear shot, especially when firing against an armored target. Double so if you are firing something that expends tangible ammunition.
If you read what I said, it's make holes / demolish buildings to gain line of sight. As in wholesale destruction to remove obstacles.
I don't know how far along the process Paulson is but it's probably a good idea as I think the two will have some overlap in the intended customer base and their wallets. I'm interested in this one as well as I like the mech designs but I'd want a bit of breather room after the end of my first KS before jumping in on another one. The problem is that KS's are all the rage and there is always another half dozen of them right around the corner... hopefully no other ones will involve mechs specifically though.
Alpharius wrote: I don't really have a lot of childhood memories invested in Robotech, so I'd much rather invest in Mecha Front.
Can't wait for more details... any details!
Though I can't help but think Paulson might want to wait until after Robotech is done...maybe?
The 1/285 Robotech arent going to scale up well for 15mm anyways. I have a few 1/200 Robotech models and they scale up well to my N scale (15mm) Battletech models. I have them on the exact same 60mm bases Paulson is basing the Mecha Front minis on, so the stuff I have will fill in well as med/heavy mechs..or maybe lights in the case of the battlepods.
That and the more I see of Paulsons designs the more I like them...so Im really looking forward to the minis.
As far as a start...I hope its sooner than later. Id say doing it during Robotech might be better. People could end up tapping out the funds on Robotech. Both going at the same time people might be likely to split funds between the two.
I agree that during might play out better. Though it is riskier. However, the chance to win over those not pledging purely on nostalgia could make a huge difference.
RiTides wrote:Yes, it will be a refreshing change not to have giant robots with swords (although I love them, let's be honest, it requires quite a bit of suspension of disbelief!).
Giant robots themselves don't?
Heretic!
I'm not hating on swords... I do own 10 Dreamforge walkers with claws, after all! But similar to Infinity, a game that tries to go for a more ranged-combat-heavy theme is refreshing to me
Mad4Minis wrote: Wow...I was just looking at the Robotech Ks, and thinking "man I hope Paulson hits us with something good soon, this is getting hard to resist". Well sir, you have satiated me for the moment. However, a good estimate of a Kickstarter release date would be better...
Ovion wrote: Looking good! Does the system have rules for destructible terrain?
Aside from it being fun for templates causing collateral damage, being able to punch holes in / demolish buildings to get los on the enemy....
Or you know... just level a city every now and then.
Judging by the design these mechs arent going to be punching anything. IMO thats good...Im tired of my scifi games devolving into a CC contest.
Not familiar with the term 'punching through' for penetrating things and making it out the other side I take it. In this case, punching holes in buildings with high explosives and lasers. [/spoiler]
Shooting through a solid/semi-solid object like a building is hell on ballistics, and tends to ruin the penetration ability of a round. Its a shakey tactic at best for anything but the most powerful rounds. Not to mention the loss of shot accuracy. Its a far more sound tactic to wait for a good clear shot, especially when firing against an armored target. Double so if you are firing something that expends tangible ammunition.
If you read what I said, it's make holes / demolish buildings to gain line of sight.
As in wholesale destruction to remove obstacles.
Oh, I get what you are saying, and its cool from a cinematic prospective, but from a true tactical sense if theres an obscuring object between you and your target...then either you or the target are not in the proper position for a shot. If you have a good tactical position, wait for the target to come into view. If you dont, move.
Also...if your the defender, those who you are defending might not like having their real estate blown up for the lulz. If your the attacker...well...a little collateral damage is to be expected.
RiTides wrote:Yes, it will be a refreshing change not to have giant robots with swords (although I love them, let's be honest, it requires quite a bit of suspension of disbelief!).
Giant robots themselves don't?
Heretic!
But similar to Infinity, a game that tries to go for a more ranged-combat-heavy theme is refreshing to me
Thats what Im saying too. A bit of hard scifi will be nice. For the last several decades CC has been seen as something done only in desperation, and certainly not an intended tactic. Most armies dont even equip their soldiers with bayonets anymore. Outside of special operations if things end up in CC something has gone bad wrong.
From a mech design standpoint the reinforcement required to withstand the impact and shock of CC would be quite heavy, and detrimental to all other aspects of the design.
Saturday is at a close which means Adepticon is finished for me as an "offical" pressence. Sunday is all "me time" where I take the day just to enjoy the convention and catch up with friends, as much as I enjoyed hosting demos and discussing the game it was kinda sucky not to be able to run out and grab meals with everyone else.
Tonight facebook is stuck on full 'tard mode and it's eaten 2 out of the last 3 posts which were all rather lengthy, so I've given up on posting updates there until later.
The basic rules will be going live for everyone on monday. That way people can have a look at the game prior to the launch of the KS. This helps me refine things based on your feedback and more importantly helps people get a look at things prior to pledging on KS. While I think it's a game most everyone will enjoy I want to make sure people get a chance to review the game play basics. The monday release rules won't include all of the advanced expanded rules just yet so no scenarios, pilot skills, or campaigns rules (which will come later). But it'll cover everything from the demos I was giving and provide a very good overview of how the game will opperate.
Last thing I'd want is for people to pledge in on the kickstarter and feel that the rules didn't live up to expectations or feel that its just not their flavor of tea.
The plan for the KS is to launch it somewhere between May 15th and June 1st. I'm waiting on my test print to come in before I submit everything for KS approval. I want to make sure I have an actual physical piece for people to view that way they get a proper sense of the transistion from concept, to finished art, to 3d and then final product. Most of you guys are familiar with my work but I also have to bring in a lot of pledgers who may not have seen any of it so I want to make at least one showing of an actual product and not rely on rendered images. It also gives me a chance to review the detail level and make sure everything is up to my personal standard. While I don't expect any issues the models are on a much larger scale than most of my previous projects so I want to be 100% certain that everything lines up with the quality I expect it to be. I realize the wait seems really long at times but I've got a lot riding on this project so I can't afford to rush it.
As for other stuff, swords laser or otherwise ain't going to happen. Close combat can still occur but it's usually out of pure despiration, example you had both arms or all your weapons blown off at that point you would still be able to ram or kick an enemy but it's generally nowhere as good as shooting. Quads can and will stomp stuff and it *really* hurts, but Quads are slow moving only an idiot leaves his mech in a posistion that a quad will be capable of stomping him.
A crazy pilot airdropping his quad on top of an enemy is a differant and brutal affair which we'll discuss later It doesn't really qualify as CC but rather OMFG!!! I'm about to die!
All terrain in the game is destructable, romp-em-stomp-em-robots just isn't fun unless you trash the entire city in the process. Many buildings will explode, and everyone will be happy.
(except the non-exsistant people who live in those buildings, who won't be getting their security deposits back, those people will be very very sad )
Mad4Minis wrote:Oh, I get what you are saying, and its cool from a cinematic prospective, but from a true tactical sense if theres an obscuring object between you and your target...then either you or the target are not in the proper position for a shot. If you have a good tactical position, wait for the target to come into view. If you dont, move.
Also...if your the defender, those who you are defending might not like having their real estate blown up for the lulz. If your the attacker...well...a little collateral damage is to be expected.
Practically speaking, it may not always be easier to move it - these quads sound pretty slow, and if you can take out some buildings for it, it might help.
Personally speaking - the 'good guys' are generally slightly boring compared to the 'bad guys', have the worst uniforms, and have the least exciting toys. So I'm perfectly justified in leveling cities for shiggles.
paulson games wrote:All terrain in the game is destructable, romp-em-stomp-em-robots just isn't fun unless you trash the entire city in the process. Many buildings will explode, and everyone will be happy.
(except the non-exsistant people who live in those buildings, who won't be getting their security deposits back, those people will be very very sad )
Yay. I shall was my mechs in their tears.
Sooner the Kickstarter is live, sooner we can start promising you our money.
Releasing the demo rules on Monday is a fantastic idea! Enjoy your day off at AdeptiCon . Sunday is perfect for that as things wind down / get packed up, anyway.
Mad4Minis wrote:Oh, I get what you are saying, and its cool from a cinematic prospective, but from a true tactical sense if theres an obscuring object between you and your target...then either you or the target are not in the proper position for a shot. If you have a good tactical position, wait for the target to come into view. If you dont, move.
Also...if your the defender, those who you are defending might not like having their real estate blown up for the lulz. If your the attacker...well...a little collateral damage is to be expected.
Practically speaking, it may not always be easier to move it - these quads sound pretty slow, and if you can take out some buildings for it, it might help.
Personally speaking - the 'good guys' are generally slightly boring compared to the 'bad guys', have the worst uniforms, and have the least exciting toys. So I'm perfectly justified in leveling cities for shiggles.
paulson games wrote:All terrain in the game is destructable, romp-em-stomp-em-robots just isn't fun unless you trash the entire city in the process. Many buildings will explode, and everyone will be happy.
(except the non-exsistant people who live in those buildings, who won't be getting their security deposits back, those people will be very very sad )
Yay. I shall was my mechs in their tears.
Sooner the Kickstarter is live, sooner we can start promising you our money.
Thats why the badguys always lose, they are too busy washing their mechs when they should be practicing tactics & marksmanship, and shooting holes in buildings when they should be shooting holes in mechs.
I haven't heard anything about the email servers being dropped, but I haven't looked either. I'd prefer to set up a forum specifically for the game but I'm not tech savy enough to do that myself. If anybody can help please shoot me a message.
I am interested in having somewhere to post about this, although I believe Blackwater Gulch was already out (not in development) when the subforum was added. You'd need to PM legoburner to talk about it.
If there is another solution in the interim, like I said I am interested, or we can just post about it here for now (but a playtesting thread elsewhere might also be called for very soon).
I PMed - I can host a forum and run it from the tech side, I just need "permission" to make it official. And give me 2 days or so to reinstall my server offsite and set up the forum.
I'm finally starting to emerge from my post convention hang over, not oppertaing at 100% but I at least no longer feel like I need to be in a coma.
While at Adepticon I had a chance to pick up a box oft the Hawk Wargames City Scape, the card stock is excellent quality so they will hold up well. The graphics are all nice and clear without being so bright that they overpower the models. Set up is a breeze compared to the home made version I built for my demo table, doing the homemade stuff there was so much cutting and gluing that it was a chore and I blew through a set of ink cartridges so in end it was about the same cost for materials but far more time intensive.
These definately have a thumbs up from me if you are looking for cost effective terrain suitable for the Mecha Front games. I spoke with the guys at Hawk Wargames and they are cool with letting me use their stuff alongside the Mecha Front minis. Unlike certain large companies they're willing to help accomidate other small companies as we're all in it for fun and supporting the greater gaming community.
The homemade buildings I made for the demo were basically 2 story and 4 story buildings, they size up well against the Hawk stuff although the Hawk buildings tend to be longer and have more floors so they are much more suited for creating larger building centers like you'd see in a downtown metro area. As I've already run off plenty of my Homemade ones I'll likely be using a mix of the them and Hawk togteher. The Cityscape buling pack has 20 buildings in it which will easily cover enough space for a standard table. I'll probably pick upa second pack so I can have a very densely packed 4x6 table. It's top rate stuff for the price and I can't wait to see if they put out any expansion packs with more road options or maybe bridges.
(1/3rd of the total pieces easily covers over half my dining table)
Also, great that Hawk Wargames is happy to let you use their terrain when showing Mecha Front off! I put together my 2 city packs last week and am extremely pleased with them. A quick shortcut if you're interested- I noticed that you haven't glued down the "battlements" (for lack of a better word) on the roofs of the buildings. They actually fold all the way over, flush with the side, so that the "battlements" are colored on both sides.
I simply used staples for these. Blends in with the buildings, and works like a charm . I bent the roofs down into the building, stapled all the battlements, then bent the roof back up into place and glued it.
Of course, maybe you're planning to do what they suggest and glue the battlements (which will likely require clips to hold them flush while they dry) but this was the quick and easy way!
Yep the buildings were a rush assembly, when I have time I'll go in and glue all the flaps in correct posistion. I wanted to leave them collaspable for a bit until I can clear off some shelf space in my room for storing them.
Good idea, as they take a Lot of space . Luckily, you can fit them inside each other- of the 5 sizes, I have them stored like this:
Short square*
Medium square*
Tall square^
Short rectangle^
Medium rectangle*
The star ones all fit together, and the carrot ones fit together, so in the end you'll only need to be able to store the 8 biggest buildings. But that's still a bit of space, it takes a large rubbermaid bin for me to store 2 sets of the cityscape.
I recommend that anyone considering this game get it when the time comes, only like $36 from the Warstore and enough buildings to get playing fast and easy!
Can you put the rules up anywhere else? Yahoo is just...awful. I've been trying to log on to their stupid groups thingie for half an hour now, to no avail.
OT wrote: Can you put the rules up anywhere else? Yahoo is just...awful. I've been trying to log on to their stupid groups thingie for half an hour now, to no avail.
I'm not sure what the problem is. I run the Battletech-CCG group and have yet to encounter a problem logging in or otherwise accessing stuff.
Despite working in 3d and opperating a webstore I'm about an non-techy as it gets. If I could figure out how to host elsewhere I would, I don't know how else to publically host files.
There's a couple very basic in prgress renders in the facebook album (www.facebook.com/paulsongames) I didn't want to tie up the thread with lots of progress shots, I'm trying to stick to the finished conceps and colored artwork artwork. As soon as I have some final renders done I'll post them here. Same with the physical models when they are back from printing.
And quoting the Monday preview so people don't miss it due to the page roll over.
OT wrote: Can you put the rules up anywhere else? Yahoo is just...awful. I've been trying to log on to their stupid groups thingie for half an hour now, to no avail.
Paulson, you must be doing something right. The above user only has 10 posts... since '05! That's less than 2 a year. And one is asking about your rules
Also shows how much yahoo sucks, though. Maybe Google groups / Google docs? People might have to sign up for a list, but that's reasonable. I've had trouble with the yahoo group, too...
OT wrote: Can you put the rules up anywhere else? Yahoo is just...awful. I've been trying to log on to their stupid groups thingie for half an hour now, to no avail.
Paulson, you must be doing something right. The above user only has 10 posts... since '05! That's less than 2 a year. And one is asking about your rules
Also shows how much yahoo sucks, though. Maybe Google groups / Google docs? People might have to sign up for a list, but that's reasonable. I've had trouble with the yahoo group, too...
Anyone know if the Adepticon code for the Paulson bitz is still active, and if so do you have it? I'm looking through all my stuff from Adepticon and can't find the slip, though I did find my paulson underslung rocket pack bit.
There's no ammo tracking for standard weapons. Missiles have a limited number of shots as they are significantly more powerful, but standard stuff is considered to be unlimited during a standard engagement.
A light mech force would be feasible, although it'd be tricky. You'd probably want 1-2 mediums as they would help bring missiles or a railgun which are crucial against heavier targets.
Most of the light mechs are at a partial disadvantage against heavy and quads as their weapons tend to have less of a punch which makes penetrating armor more difficult. Also because they rely primarily on having a high defense to avoid being hit they can be more vunerabel to missile attacks (as missile auto hit) Many light mechs carry machine guns and light autocannons which can help defend against missiles a bit, but a solid hit from a heavy or quad using lasers or railguns can one shot a light mech as they peel through armor like butter and light mechs are lacking in the armor department.
The one advantage that light mechs have is that most of them have one or more sensor dice which they can combine to take down other mechs ala wolf pack style. If they focus as a team on a single target they can overpower heavier stuff, particuarly if they are supporting a medium mech who does the primary shooting. I think it'd take some work and focusing on the mobility of the force to take proper advantage of cover but it should be possible.
That said I haven't tested exclusively light mech lists as part of the playtesting just yet but with some finesse I think you could pull it off.
The typical force I've been testing with is
2 lights, 2 mediums, 1 heavy (average force size totaling 6 mechs)
While I don't have a finalized points sytem in place just yet the aproximation would be: 2 lights would be comperable to 1 medium, 3 lights to a heavy, or 4 lights to a quad.
So a completely light list would likely be 9 light mechs (which is a lot of mechs for this system) Or maybe 5 lights in support of 2 mediums, which would be a more optimal build IMO.
Alpharius wrote: I'm in a bit of trouble when this releases because... I like all the factions previewed so far!
As do I, though Im leaning heavily towards NorAm as a favorite. When the kickstarter goes up Id like to get a set of both, but if I have to choose it will likely be NorAm.
Just to keep you from getting too comfy with your early choices... next monday I should have colored art for the blackfrost heavy.
If I do my job right you'lll want them all
Its hard to remain impartial, I personally prefer the NoArm look slightly more but I think so far all 3 factions have distinct visuals I like about each one. If I were strictly a player (removed form the designing, withotu any sales push) I know I'd have two factions that way I would have enough I could get a friend to play and it wouldn't break the bank compared to other games. Further down the road when there's like 6-7 factions to chose from then I think choosing a favorite would become a bit tougher.
As you get closer to the launch of your kickstarter, please do some feasibility studies as to how much you'd need to take in so that you can make these things as multi-part plastic kits instead of resin. While I understand your position, I think that having the possibility of these in plastic will provide a very strong incentive to fund your project.
paulson games wrote: Just to keep you from getting too comfy with your early choices... next monday I should have colored art for the blackfrost heavy.
Nice . Blackfrost are indeed sweet, even not colored in!
I'm hoping these illustrations will be in the rulebook, or maybe even an artbook? Either one would get you some backers dipping their toes in who weren't yet ready / didn't have the funds to spring for the models, but might be tempted to get the models later
We were looking at some artic camo for the blackfrost mechs, saw this one and had to share. Sadly it's a bit complex to replicate across the mechs but talk about stylin'
I used to work at Barnett Crossbows and that is how they did the camo on their bows. The dip room employees would use the scraps of camo for stuff like cell phone covers & other small things.
Its hard to remain impartial, I personally prefer the NoArm look slightly more
I hear they have a support group for those who like those armless department store mannequins.....
I like the blackfrost so far, but really hoping you stick with fewer factions and put out a second light, med, heavy etc before opening up more factions.
Also, what's the likelihood of mixed units, ala merc style, with mecha from different factions?
paulson games wrote: We were looking at some artic camo for the blackfrost mechs, saw this one and had to share. Sadly it's a bit complex to replicate across the mechs but talk about stylin'
Needs a Limited Edition mech pilot miniature with hat, fur coat and cane
Buddy and I just played a "get familiar game" with no cover, 1 light and 1 medium vs the same.
Shooting is fun and wild! The hit location rolls get very tense. I won the game with a critical hit location roll I assigned to the center torso, killing the pilot.
My wife is going to be very pissed at all the missing money when the kickstarter is a go. Too bad. Will provide actual feedback after we get a couple real games in.
That is wicked indeed... I can think of so many uses for that technique. I wonder if it's be capable of being used on a miniature and how tightly it clings across little gaps and panel lines etc. Even if it won't work on minis it was an awesome link and video.
Its hard to remain impartial, I personally prefer the NoArm look slightly more
I hear they have a support group for those who like those armless department store mannequins.....
I like the blackfrost so far, but really hoping you stick with fewer factions and put out a second light, med, heavy etc before opening up more factions.
Also, what's the likelihood of mixed units, ala merc style, with mecha from different factions?
LOL I'd miseed the typo, NoArms lol
Right now there's no hard set rule saying you can only use mecha from your own faction. For games you're welcome to intermix forces if you want. The inital concept I had is for forces be be primarily composed primarily of one faction, but with adding the Blackfrost Mercs into the mix I'd say a mixed force would be best set at 50+% NorAm/Neo-Bloc with 50% or less from mercs. A mix of both NorAm mecha and captured Neo-Bloc mecha would be justifiable under a NorAm resistance banner as they'd be short on equipment and use whatever they can capture. Neo-Bloc likely wouldn't make use out of NorAm mecha, although they have employed Blackfrost in past engagements.
That's something I'll address in the expanded rules. (plus add in playtest stats for Blackfrost Mecha) I should have a revised set of rules going up in the next week or two.
katfude wrote: Buddy and I just played a "get familiar game" with no cover, 1 light and 1 medium vs the same.
Shooting is fun and wild! The hit location rolls get very tense. I won the game with a critical hit location roll I assigned to the center torso, killing the pilot.
My wife is going to be very pissed at all the missing money when the kickstarter is a go. Too bad. Will provide actual feedback after we get a couple real games in.
Use some disposable cups, soda, or beer cans as stand ins for buildings as they are about the right size, the game is so much more fun when you are leveling the city as collateral damage or mechs get rammed into stuff or skid into it.
As for the wife; in the belief of Sun Tzu knowledge of the enemey and preparation are the keys to success. While you cannot defeat her through spear and broadsword her charge may be diverted and defeated by obfuscation and redirection. When she asks about the money joyfully boast "it was spent on strippers and cocaine". She will suddenly no longer be angry about miniatures... now the most important part of this plan must occur before she begins hiting you with the nearest heavy object. Now that she is distracted by a new anger you say "hey I was just joking and it went to these really cool miniatures, isn't that awesome?" The unexpected spiking and sudden deflation of diversionary anger will leave her mildly annoyed but in a much more agreeable mood.
You might get a slight slap out of it but it will be far better than the beheading an unprepared man would face. (And what great miniatures game aren't worth enduring a light slap?) Put just the right spin on the timing and a seductive tone and who knows what is possible? Perhaps she will be reminded that while you spend things on "useless junk" it keeps you happily at home and not out cat calling. Husbandly duties to follow? While he may not be accredited as such I am sure that Sun Tzu once held the first great pimp cup and knew how to work well with the ladies.
Of course it's also entirely possible I'm a prankster and just want to mess with you
And if you do get bumped to a night on the couch no worries, you'll be able to play with them on the coffee table and make Pew-Pew and Dakka noises all night. Hide under the blanket pretending to be asleep when she comes to check, and sighs. Then resume in quiet whispers when she leaves.
The wise man even makes plans for living in defeat
That is wicked indeed... I can think of so many uses for that technique. I wonder if it's be capable of being used on a miniature and how tightly it clings across little gaps and panel lines etc. Even if it won't work on minis it was an awesome link and video.
Its hard to remain impartial, I personally prefer the NoArm look slightly more
I hear they have a support group for those who like those armless department store mannequins.....
I like the blackfrost so far, but really hoping you stick with fewer factions and put out a second light, med, heavy etc before opening up more factions.
Also, what's the likelihood of mixed units, ala merc style, with mecha from different factions?
LOL I'd miseed the typo, NoArms lol
Right now there's no hard set rule saying you can only use mecha from your own faction. For games you're welcome to intermix forces if you want. The inital concept I had is for forces be be primarily composed primarily of one faction, but with adding the Blackfrost Mercs into the mix I'd say a mixed force would be best set at 50+% NorAm/Neo-Bloc with 50% or less from mercs. A mix of both NorAm mecha and captured Neo-Bloc mecha would be justifiable under a NorAm resistance banner as they'd be short on equipment and use whatever they can capture. Neo-Bloc likely wouldn't make use out of NorAm mecha, although they have employed Blackfrost in past engagements.
That's something I'll address in the expanded rules. (plus add in playtest stats for Blackfrost Mecha) I should have a revised set of rules going up in the next week or two.
katfude wrote: Buddy and I just played a "get familiar game" with no cover, 1 light and 1 medium vs the same.
Shooting is fun and wild! The hit location rolls get very tense. I won the game with a critical hit location roll I assigned to the center torso, killing the pilot.
My wife is going to be very pissed at all the missing money when the kickstarter is a go. Too bad. Will provide actual feedback after we get a couple real games in.
Use some disposable cups, soda, or beer cans as stand ins for buildings as they are about the right size, the game is so much more fun when you are leveling the city as collateral damage or mechs get rammed into stuff or skid into it.
As for the wife; in the belief of Sun Tzu knowledge of the enemey and preparation are the keys to success. While you cannot defeat her through spear and broadsword her charge may be diverted and defeated by obfuscation and redirection. When she asks about the money joyfully boast "it was spent on strippers and cocaine". She will suddenly no longer be angry about miniatures... now the most important part of this plan must occur before she begins hiting you with the nearest heavy object. Now that she is distracted by a new anger you say "hey I was just joking and it went to these really cool miniatures, isn't that awesome?" The unexpected spiking and sudden deflation of diversionary anger will leave her mildly annoyed but in a much more agreeable mood.
You might get a slight slap out of it but it will be far better than the beheading an unprepared man would face. (And what great miniatures game aren't worth enduring a light slap?) Put just the right spin on the timing and a seductive tone and who knows what is possible? Perhaps she will be reminded that while you spend things on "useless junk" it keeps you happily at home and not out cat calling. Husbandly duties to follow? While he may not be accredited as such I am sure that Sun Tzu once held the first great pimp cup and knew how to work well with the ladies.
Of course it's also entirely possible I'm a prankster and just want to mess with you
And if you do get bumped to a night on the couch no worries, you'll be able to play with them on the coffee table and make Pew-Pew and Dakka noises all night. Hide under the blanket pretending to be asleep when she comes to check, and sighs. Then resume in quiet whispers when she leaves.
The wise man even makes plans for living in defeat
.
One of the best posts in a long time. Enjoy a well deserved Exalt
Base plan for the game is to do metal models for the small mechs and a hybrid of metal parts and resin bodies for the larger mechs.
That said... I've also been looking into options for plastics.
If I were to pursue plastics, how does that impact your interests in the models? Good/Bad/Don't Care?
Plastics will definately be a much more expensive on start up costs and also take a bit more lead time. I can see this impacting kickstarter plans in two main areas. First the overall goal would need to be much higher, my initial estime would likely jump from 30k for funding upwards to 120k to be sucessfully funded. Second it would likely add several more months of developement time into the mix. Inital plan was to have minis rolling out within 6 months of the kickstarter, where as plastics could take up to a year.
I'm looking at two situations, if I stick to the inital plan I could have the kickstarter rolling very soon. (possibly within 2 weeks) Or if I push on the plastics route it means a few more small delays but for a potentially superior product.
I think the plastics investigation is worth the time spent. If it could raise the funds (and I think it will) it would make for a more impressive product with greater potential.
I would say look at casting in resin, rather than metal / combination, being resin is cheaper, more consistently priced, more reliable, easier to work with, better detail, lighter, etc, and generally preferred to metal if plastic is unavailable.
Plastic seems to be more generally preferred among the community, but like you say, it's significantly more expensive set-up wise.
You should consider sending Joel from Anvil Industries a message to find out what resin they use, as it comes out basically the same as plastic anyway!
As someone who's avoiding buying miniatures (massive backlog already with no time to take care of it, with the Kingdom Death kickstarter on the way) right now, I definitely wouldn't buy if it were metal. I'd end up being more tempted to buy it if it were plastic (or even resin, really) though. I wouldn't be able to say if I'd be in a position to buy it, but I'd at least seriously consider it.
I'd prefer plastic or resin. Maybe resin would be easier to work with and get producing? I think resin has come a long way, just look at the excellent work Spartan Games etc have done with resin.
With the army sizes you've been talking about, resin seems the way to go. It fits a timeline better and all the resins I've gotten from you have been top notch. Going plastic would only work if your doing. Big box release in my opinion. If we can order our mechs alacart, then resin. Plastics will just increase price and delay time. You cam always go plastic in a year or so when the game takes off, and you do an expansion. Look at Marc and dreamforge. He gauged the response with the resin, proved the demand then got the plastics lined up.
I don't know how expensive plastic really is. Look at the great stuff from dreamforge produced for not that much. However they also basically did a bunch of the same guys 20 in a kit, you want to do a lot of different guys, it will be more expensive I'm sure. I would rather do plastic myself. You could probably do it as a kickstarter goal if you wanted, considering that in the long run plastic is cheaper, so if you get a lot of interest in the kick starter it would be cheaper.
I'm going to mirror the call for going with Resin kits all around. I think it would be the better way of going then the plastics. I know personally i am really looking forward to this kickstarted.. it may.. or will very well be the first one that i put any funding into.
As cool as plastic would be, Im kinda getting tired of waiting so long for Kickstarter stuff to arrive, and its begun effecting whether I pledge or not. With a goal of 6 months for resin (or resin/metal) Ill be in. If it comes down to waiting a year...then Id likely not bother pledging and just wait until it hit regular retail. Waiting a year is just too long, even for plastic.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
stratassj wrote: I'm going to mirror the call for going with Resin kits all around. I think it would be the better way of going then the plastics. I know personally i am really looking forward to this kickstarted.. it may.. or will very well be the first one that i put any funding into.
Ill agree...with one exception...anything thin and weak like gun barrels. Not only are these almost always warped and impossible to straighten in resin, but they are very easy to break. Metal would be the way to go for bits like that.
I has an idea... or as I usualy refer to them "Bad plan"
set up your kickstarter with the original goal of 30-50K for a release of resin kits then include a stretch goal of 120-150K for plastics this will mean that you can start to produce kits and turnover whilst still funding and or developing your plastic kits... resin moulds only last X number of castings anyway so your not losing great wads of cash by continuing to develope a better production technique/ material.
I would avoid metal kits and or componants as the materials are expensive, difficult to modify, not much more structuraly stable or strong and heavy as hell.
Automatically Appended Next Post: is it not possible to include a metal structure or skeleton inside the fragile componants such as gun barrels, a length of steel rod or similar?? this would increase the strength of the componant without making it too heavy and could be held in place during the moulding process by a couple of magnets built into the mold?
paulson games wrote: Base plan for the game is to do metal models for the small mechs and a hybrid of metal parts and resin bodies for the larger mechs.
That said... I've also been looking into options for plastics.
If I were to pursue plastics, how does that impact your interests in the models? Good/Bad/Don't Care?
Plastics will definately be a much more expensive on start up costs and also take a bit more lead time. I can see this impacting kickstarter plans in two main areas. First the overall goal would need to be much higher, my initial estime would likely jump from 30k for funding upwards to 120k to be sucessfully funded. Second it would likely add several more months of developement time into the mix. Inital plan was to have minis rolling out within 6 months of the kickstarter, where as plastics could take up to a year.
I'm looking at two situations, if I stick to the inital plan I could have the kickstarter rolling very soon. (possibly within 2 weeks) Or if I push on the plastics route it means a few more small delays but for a potentially superior product.
Opinions?
At the risk of appearing greedy... is it possible to do both? Have the initial funding goal be for resin and then the next big stretch goal be for plastics? I don't pretend to know the exact difference in manufacturing costs (once the mold costs are excluded) for resin versus plastic but is it feasible to offer both via the pledge manager with the obvious in bold print disclaimer that opting for plastic will mean waiting for an additional 6-8 months? People who want models asap could still contribute to the eventual goal of future plastics that they could expand their initial collection with at a later date. When you offer a stretch goal of a new resin model, you could do the Robotech thing and have a later stretch goal be to get the model available in plastic at a later date. When the KS is over, backers can specify via the pledge manager whether they want resin, plastic, or some combo (delivered separately at an extra charge) of the two.
Edit: and my wife is making me skip the Robotech Kickstarter for this. So metal would make me a sad panda.
If that is actually the case I would put your money into Robotech (as it closes this week). I simply can't rule out metal at this point.
There are several factors in play on this, by itself metal is more expensive than resin however it is actually far more cost effective in terms of labor costs and mold life. Keep in mind I run a casting business and I am very aware of material costs and labor costs. Resin works great for smaller volumes of parts but it is very demanding on the labor end which is why you see it only used in two areas, small boutique casters and GW who has a large amount of available manpower. (and yet finecast still sucks)
Resin looks great on display but for many of the pieces it holds up very poorly to game play. Resin weapon barrels are a night mare, they miscast a lot, and are very prone to breakage and warping. The current range of weapons I produce for my store are very bulky and tend to hold up well, however many of the gun barrels for mecha front are scaled much more realistically and are very thin, which makes durability for play problematic. (GW weapons are grossly oversized and still have issues)
Ever ask a Tau player about just how much he "loves" his crisis suit's ankles? Many of the light mecha have some fairly delicate leg componants which would also have durability problems if they are done exclusively in resin.
As owner of a resin casting company I work with resin everyday and I love resin models. I have a huge personal collection of them as well, but resin certainly is not the solution to *every* situation. Foremost I need to make the models viable for game play and as much as I've tried to explore every option many of the models are going to require at least a few metal parts.
If metal is completely not an option in any shape or form for you, then I can't say to wait on my KS because there's going to be some metal involved unless I can manage to go all plastic. (And plastics may prove to be beyond my reach at this point).
Another thing to consider with plastic is future expansion. If you go resin/metal you can tool up for new mechs/factions yourself. If you start in plastic, any expansions will require you to use plastic, and likely more kickstarters to fund the expansions. Also longer development times for said expansions/factions as well.
Dont get me wrong, I love plastic, but it may not be ideal for this product.
Metal is not preferable, but I accept that it is likely to be present no matter what as I know this is going to be a killer product.
Resin would drive others interest much further I'm sure and plastic would be super awesome! But I'm realistic and will be in on this no matter what (barring the casts look like a slowed dinosaur with mutant parts hanging off).
I rather dislike metal myself. I think the idea of a plastic stretch goal in the Kickstarter makes a lot of sense if you aren't sure you could get the Kickstarter off the ground with plastic.
I think resin and metal similar to how Privateer does their battle engines, gargantuans, and colossals is the way to go to start with. (example in spoiler)
Make whatever is reasonable to be made in resin but pieces that would work better in metal due to size, shape, etc. in metal.
Then if Kickstarting once there are mechs from each faction funded make a stretch goal be plastics.
As warboss said on the previous page- I don't know if it's feasible, but wouldn't it be possible to have the initial 30K goal be for all metal / resin options, then stretches every 15 - 20K for turning those same kits into plastic one at a time?
Might not be the way to go about it, but it hedges your bets a bit...
I think one of the reasons that hybrid metal/resin kits have such a bad reputation is the need to pin the joints
folk used to plastic aren't used to it anymore, so may not bother (leaving an easily breakable mini), or even if they do resent the extra time and effort needed
Maybe think if you can incorporate some sort of peg (metal) and socket (resin) joint on the parts to simplify the assembly process and give a more stable final mini if you do go the hybrid route ?
For me, definitely plastic or resin. Metals can be such a pain to work with and with the larger size mechs you are looking at, that can be lots of pinning for good, long term strength while plastic would stay together really well with good cement. The though of metal to start, then perhaps stretch goals to go plastic sounds good, but if backers get in planning on that, then it falls through, you end up with unhappy campers. Also if you do that, and it does take the longer time to get the models out, the people who jumped in expecting metals sooner may not be happy that all of a sudden they are waiting longer times for the plastics they did not want.
In the current climate, plastics just seem the good way to go. I know I would be happy to dump some C-notes for plastic (probably not so much for metals), even if it is gonna be close to a year (still waiting for my Ogre, but hey, Kickstarter is about getting what you want, not just getting it right now).
Heck, look at FoW, they are moving toward plastic.
The ease of assembly, quality of models and the ease of customization and modding makes plastic/resin the main choice.
Also, why not go for a long period for the Kickstarter? What is the longest time it can run? Give it more time to make more money and perhaps that will further enhance the probability and ability that you can go plastic instead. (not to mention that with the aforementioned Robotech project that ends next week, you might want to allow a month or more for people to build back up funds, I'm betting that many of the same people who want your mechs-me me me- are also huge Robotech fanatics from way back and probably not done wetting ourselves yet over that project so they need time to dump mass quantities of funds to your project too)
I've already lost most intrest in Warmahordes because of their metal and metal/plesin hybrid models.
Resin will slow your production to a crawl. Plastic takes a lot more money up front but if your kickstarter is a success, that should take care of itself. Once you've got the molds, volume production is easy and quick.
I guess the question is, do you see Mecha Front selling enough kits to make a profit?
I've seen extra-detail kits sell for tanks and model boats that had brass weapon barrels. If a socket is moulded into the resin part, wouldn't that be an easy fix?
I've assembled TAG and pinning does take some effort, but it is worth it. I have not had ir break yet, and most of my Firestorm Armada had metal pieces and they went together fine.
Oh, and I've finished modifying my Nichimo kits with your resin weapons... they look bad@$$.
Ive built numerous resin, metal, and hybrid kits of all sizes. Some Ive pinned, some I havent. There hasnt been any difference in life and/or durability between the two. Right now Im looking at a Cryx Helljack (metal) that was built about 4 years ago with no pins, and has been through 2 moves without breaking. I played Battletech for years (quite actively) with dozens of metal mechs that werent pinned. Never had any problems with them.
I will note that I do thoroughly wash all my parts, and I use a good quality super glue (Gorilla Impact Tough), not the cheapo 4 tubes for 99 cents junk.
There are several factors in play on this, by itself metal is more expensive than resin however it is actually far more cost effective in terms of labor costs and mold life. Keep in mind I run a casting business and I am very aware of material costs and labor costs. Resin works great for smaller volumes of parts but it is very demanding on the labor end which is why you see it only used in two areas, small boutique casters and GW who has a large amount of available manpower. (and yet finecast still sucks)
I've done spin casting through the years. He is exactly right on his comment. The ability to recycle flawed parts keeps the price low. As far as finecast? From my experience I believe this is a stop game measure so they can continue to use their old mold making equipment.
There is an extreme bias on metal models, which is unfortunate as people are so used to using plastic models.
But if it is the difference of keeping costs down to provide a quality product I'm in for that. I want this game to succeed and hope others on Dakka will purchase the game if it is all metal or partly metal or all plastic/resin.
In essence, I want to see Paulson Games to grow and be successful.
Your models are awesome, but there's no way I'd end up pledging for metal. Plastic or maybe, maybe restic/bonesium/resin are the only materials I can see getting excited about on Kickstarter these days. By the time your Kickstarter opens, Reaper will have announced their Bones CAV line, which will be a serious problem if your line is still all metal.
If people are pitching in their two cents about preferences, I'll say that I prefer plastic hands-down. The ease of assembly and the fact that it won't break as easily are the main factors. The ease of converting is another biggie for me.
A big reason I went for DreamForge's stuff was that it is plastic. And it is oh so awesome. If you go plastic I will definitely pick up some of your stuff. If you go resin, metal, or some hybrid, I'll be much more strongly inclined to just buy more Dreamforge stuff.
Just my own personal opinions, for what they're worth.
Reapers CAV line of mechs is a poor comparison. They are a different scale, 10mm, and much smaller overall, closer to Battletech mechs in size, where the Mecha Front mechs are abojt twice that size. The two wouldnt be able to be used interchangeably...so they arent really direct competition.
Theres also the issue of completely different styles of mech design between the two...
When people say they can't afford to plan a KS for plastic I say Dreamforge and Malifaux.
Malifaux is character driven skirmish game that is mid-level in popularity going all styrene plastic.
Dreamforge made some huge kits in styrene and over time will see a nice profit as will Wyrd.
I have a solid grasp on what it takes to go plastic.I really do. It’s not that far out of reach with KS and with proper planing it could work out really well. You could do starter faction kits X models on a sprue reach the goal that allows for production of 2 factions and a little breathing room then make expansions stretch goals singles or multi packs (Malifaux style) with breathing room.
Please don’t “ DP9” this… imagine if DP9 had plastic…it’s all I would play (maybe a little exaggeration here. but I'd play and buy a hell've lot more Heavy Gear if it wasn't such a metal expensive "Boutique" product )
I'm seeing a lot of no metal votes and resin won't stand up to the tiny bits.
You can listen to the fans or just say "well their going to be metal so don't bother pledging" as was basically said above.
Over the long haul you'll build a bigger fan base and have molds that last forever.
But what do I know....
I understand you're a small casting company with investments made in equipment and such I get it… but in the “end game” what do you really want to be? A GW aftermarket/ add-on company turned mediocre game company or “well I started with Home casting set-up but soon turned it into a AAA Wargame company” I’m sure you want to be the AAA company.
You can’t do both either man, you can’t be the 1 man show DIY AAA world wide supplier. Have more faith in your fantastic Idea Mr. Paulson. Figure out how much outsourcing the casting and production to China will cost and Go Big man.
I think you have a great idea here. I’ll pledge 150ish for plastics for sure. I’m afraid you quickly fall to the wayside being the Metal/Resin Home caster DIY company.
Great Idea, good looking concepts, now figure out a way to step your game up and take it to a level such a cool IP deserves.
You can do it man.
and don't tell possible fans to go pledge robotech... makes you look defeated before you even get started. We all know the robotech story man and it sucks what happened. So out do them.
Plastic. The 120k goal should be very doable. About the delivery date. Play it safe, people dont mind waiting for a set date, people do get frustrated if you anounce a delay =p. You also have t come up with a "sweet spot" pledge. It should be the average amount pledged. Imagine 1k pledgers at 150 usd, and your goal is reached. Examine all succesful kickstarters, use kicktraq, become a ks master. Goodluck !
Automatically Appended Next Post: Robotech ks stinks imho you get a billion of the same kinda boring sculpts. The jp model kits are so much cooler and cheaper, but you cant game with them, only downside.
I feel the same way, devilution (about the same sculpts, etc). That's why I feel like this could be really popular... paulson has a great name as a "boutique" bits / model sculptor, and that has shown campaigns able to raise a lot of funds even for traditional sculpts / methods.
If he goes for plastic, a lot more people would be interested.
However, I might be interested in resin, too... if it is resin and JUST the gun barrels are metal, I would advertise them as RESIN not resin/metal hybrids... that will chill people like nothing else, for whatever reason.
5deadly wrote: I have a solid grasp on what it takes to go plastic.I really do. It’s not that far out of reach with KS and with proper planing it could work out really well.
This is something I've thought about, can you elaborate? What are the fist steps to be taken?
5deadly wrote: I have a solid grasp on what it takes to go plastic.I really do. It’s not that far out of reach with KS and with proper planing it could work out really well.
This is something I've thought about, can you elaborate? What are the fist steps to be taken?
Are we talking about the process from design to product?
Get the design you’re wanting done, render it in 3D properly and ensure there will be no undercutting when breaking it down in parts, break it down as far as it needs to be to ensure this. Print out prototypes first so you positively know it’s what you want. That around $20-$100 a square inch depending on where you go and what you’re looking for. After that find a company with solid tech and engineers on the backend to help ensure the casting process will run smooth and that can correct mistakes overlooked and make adjustments on the fly. Make sure you get everything you want to sell on that kit because that’s it for a while.
If you’re asking me if I Know every intricate detail of the styrene injection mold making process CNC, Graphite EDM etching and such, No I’m not an engineer so I don’t know about the entire process like machinist or engineers do. I’m pretty sure a regular person with a little studying can ensure a solid 3D STL file and the right connections can take it from 2D concept to Plastic, Painted and on the table.
Nowadays you can get a mold made from anywhere from $2000-$30,000 depending on your needs or more expensive if you really have to.
The expense of the process varies and a lot of it depends on quality you’re looking for and how much prototyping you do.. Some mold can cost double the normal price due to the pulling method they allow, but help greatly to ensure odd shaped pieces avoid undercutting
Not really sure what you’re asking for but if you have more knowledge on the subject please add to it. I’m always up for learning something new. ; )
But it’s a little OT for the topic.
5deadly: with quoting Malifaux and Dreamforge making the leap to plastics, I'll kindly remind you that both of those companies had a metal line prior to doing so. Those lines allowed them to properly gauge their market demand and build a budget pool in order to undertake that switch. We all need to master baby steps before we can start running.
If you have a small company to suggest as a business model for plastics by all means toss it out there. But to my knowledge anyone that's currently broken the plastics barrier is an established company or already has a metal line.
If you have some actual credentials in running an independent business, or you have work history within the plastics field I'd highly welcome any insights you might have. I've put in a lot of phone calls and face time with other business owners and people who have run successful kickstarters which has been a huge help. I always welcome help from anyone that has applicable industry experience and is willing to share that knowledge. But random internet "experts" and arm chair advisors aren't of any particular use to me as all they provide is speculation and theories.
I apreciate the feedback that people have given on their personal preferences of material as it helps me get feel for what my customer base would prefer.
However the underlying decisions I make in running my company are not up for debate. I strive to make the best product I that can within the means that I am able to. I think that strategy has done well to build my business and create a good name with my customers. Regardless of what material I ultimately use it will be done so that I can produce the best quality models possible while working within my production capacity.
It's got what seem to me to be some important insights, one of the take home messages being that the engineers/technicians etc working in plastic production are NOT miniatures folk in the way that metal casters are likely to be
so you need to think carefully about what you ask//tell them to do (eg the to small mini they weren't able to show at gencon as it was modelled standing on rails and the casting company went oh 28mm in total, not 28mm figure itself)
paulson games wrote: However the underlying decisions I make in running my company are not up for debate. I strive to make the best product I that can within the means that I am able to. I think that strategy has done well to build my business and create a good name with my customers. Regardless of what material I ultimately use it will be done so that I can produce the best quality models possible while working within my production capacity.
Absolutely, and I hope at least my comments weren't suggesting otherwise.
paulson games wrote: However the underlying decisions I make in running my company are not up for debate. I strive to make the best product I that can within the means that I am able to. I think that strategy has done well to build my business and create a good name with my customers. Regardless of what material I ultimately use it will be done so that I can produce the best quality models possible while working within my production capacity.
Absolutely, and I hope at least my comments weren't suggesting otherwise.
Once he has a successful footing with his product line with a positive cash flow he can switch over to plastic/resin/ or whatever the trends of the day.
What is important is that he succeeds after 5 years of being in this venture. And yes I have has a few failures that I chalk up to a steep learning curve. Research. Research. Research. Gather as much data and funds available and remember that this is for the long haul and there will be so many bumps on the road along the way to a successful business.
paulson games wrote: If you have some actual credentials in running an independent business, or you have work history within the plastics field I'd highly welcome any insights you might have. I've put in a lot of phone calls and face time with other business owners and people who have run successful kickstarters which has been a huge help. I always welcome help from anyone that has applicable industry experience and is willing to share that knowledge. But random internet "experts" and arm chair advisors aren't of any particular use to me as all they provide is speculation and theories.
Only one guy said Malifaux and Dreamforge...
this says I don't care what you think you simpleton, in slightly nicer wording
good job Mr. Paulson.
good luck with this project. I'll keep my nose out of it..., I'll go pledge Robotech then
One customer down... get a PR guy if you're prone to insults...however slight. "But random internet "experts" and arm chair advisors aren't of any particular use to me as all they provide is speculation and theories.
"
5deadly wrote: One customer down... get a PR guy if you're prone to insults...however slight. "But random internet "experts" and arm chair advisors aren't of any particular use to me as all they provide is speculation and theories. "
One customer down and one customer up. I am impressed and perfectly happy with this response considering he did put it in a very nice way and since you have decided to gracefully bow out I am assuming you arent sending him any business models it has had the desired effect of getting one of the two preferred results of "Gimme some great info you can back up or please stop giving me advice based on your opinions."
I haven't bought anything from Paulson (though that Tau Allies proxie squad is looking good) but this sort of polite (even if you don't like what it means) is a great confidence boost that he is a decent guy who is not prone to disgusting rants like the Battlefoam dude. I try to buy from good dudes where possible so will keep my eyes open for these pretty mechs.
Actually I’m just taking your advice. You know what you told some other possible customer rigeld2.
paulson games wrote: If that is actually the case I would put your money into Robotech (as it closes this week). I simply can't rule out metal at this point.
You’re somewhat insulting to the opinions of what will be your customer base telling people to go pledge Robotech and calling people armchair experts…. It’s insulting man. You can’t see that then ok.
Me, I’m playing typical customer… you’re not playing typical CEO of a reliable company. I had nothing but positive words for you like a coach would. But you reply is somewhat well worded misplace hostility.
Good Idea as I said before. But I’m not going to give a guy like you a single buck. I could see having an issue and needing a refund or some other issues… I’m Ok with not supporting you.
I’ve see other companies doing KS project torn up for less.
Goodluck on your DIY garage project kickstarter.
--
and "One customer down and one customer up" does not make a good business model.
and before anyone tears me a new one... really go read Mr. Paulsons replies. "go pledge robotech then" and "But random internet "experts" and arm chair advisors aren't of any particular use to me as all they provide is speculation and theories."
it's not nice. not for a guy building a fan driven business... so before you give me the whomping just look at why I posted this.
I'm out
paulson games wrote: If you have some actual credentials in running an independent business, or you have work history within the plastics field I'd highly welcome any insights you might have. I've put in a lot of phone calls and face time with other business owners and people who have run successful kickstarters which has been a huge help. I always welcome help from anyone that has applicable industry experience and is willing to share that knowledge. But random internet "experts" and arm chair advisors aren't of any particular use to me as all they provide is speculation and theories.
Only one guy said Malifaux and Dreamforge...
this says I don't care what you think you simpleton, in slightly nicer wording
good job Mr. Paulson.
good luck with this project. I'll keep my nose out of it..., I'll go pledge Robotech then
One customer down... get a PR guy if you're prone to insults...however slight. "But random internet "experts" and arm chair advisors aren't of any particular use to me as all they provide is speculation and theories.
"
Hmmmmm I dont really see this as an insult. This is more of a warning. Did you not say that you have experience in the process? So does that not give you some work history? Maybe not for profits but none the less.
What I think Paulson did there was to get everyone who is trying to come up like an expert to stop. As many of you know Paulson has a GREAT work history and has always made great products (he might not return all your emails or messages but meh at best right.) I can tell just from observing some of the details that Paulson HAS revealed and some of his renders that he has looked at ALL viable options.
NOW onto the topic of plastic. Lets look at this realisticly. It was quoted to be upwards of $30k a sculpt right? Now that is a LOT to ask for. Someone said to do this as a stretch goal at around $128k for the KS right? This is not likely. At best that is 4 of Paulson's bigger models and as we have seen there are going to be a lot of parts to this.
Now I have NEVER been a fan of metal. I infact STILL hate metal Zoanthropes BUT Paulson is correct. He needs to get his feed FIRMLY into the ground FIRST. You do NOT build a house on sand, you need to pour the foundation first, which is what EVERY major wargame company out there has done. Each one has either thaken their own fork in the road to get them to what ever there are at now, from pure plastic to hybrid to ALL of our PERSONAL favorite Failcast!
Is there really anyone out there who can think that Paulson will make a bad game? I for one dont think so. I still remember his Robotech attempt and the TIME and EFFORT he put into that. So I for one know that this will be great.
I don't understand that response, Paulson... you asked us for thoughts on material, and people gave them... I personally think the most interesting thing is the aversion to "hybrid", so that gives useful feedback for how to market it ("resin with metal gun barrels / antenna" for example rather than "hybrid").
Basically the statement was "if it's metal I'll go support something else" which is fine by me. Not because i have hurt feelings but because I haven't made a concrete decisions on the final material. So rather than make a snap comment on materials that may or may not come to be I'd rather customers know upfront that I can't give an ironclad commitment to plastic or all resin. I'd rather tell those customers upfront so they can purchase a product they want even if it's not mine. Does that make sense?
What I'm trying to avoid is somebody passing on Robotech because they expect my product to be in plastic (or resin). If a customer is truly on the fence between two kickstarters and the ONLY determining factor is what material the models are made from then I can't can't in good faith tell them to wait around on mine as I don't have a final answer on that yet. Especially when that customers KS is closing.
Last thing I want is for that customer who absolutely hates metal to hang in thinking he's going to get pure resin or plastics then have a very bad reaction if I ultimately opt for metal, so I'm being straight forward and saying go with what you know for certain.
For me, the look is more important than the material. I do tend to favor "all one" material for armies, but I'm almost never able to do it so I've mostly given up on that . The one exception that I have would be Dropzone Commander, which is all resin. (Edit: Nope, I lied, the infantry are metal!)
But everything else I have (40k, fantasy, hordes, brushfire) is a mix of plastic, resin, and metal models. I find benefits and drawbacks to each, with plastic being the easiest of course, but also the most limited in what models are available in it, for obvious reasons. Most of the cool ones are resin or metal
I actually felt insulted. I have a very solid idea of the process and cost. Then not being responded to by name. I’m the only one who mentioned Malifaux and Dreamforge. Then to get such a pompous reply was like really?
paulson games wrote: For the people quoting Malifaux and Dreamforge making the leap to plastics,
If you have some actual credentials in running an independent business, or you have work history within the plastics field I'd highly welcome any insights you might have. I've put in a lot of phone calls and face time with other business owners and people who have run successful kickstarters which has been a huge help. I always welcome help from anyone that has applicable industry experience and is willing to share that knowledge. But random internet "experts" and arm chair advisors aren't of any particular use to me as all they provide is speculation and theories.
However the underlying decisions I make in running my company are not up for debate. I strive to make the best product I that can within the means that I am able to. I think that strategy has done well to build my business and create a good name with my customers. Regardless of what material I ultimately use it will be done so that I can produce the best quality models possible while working within my production capacity.
Is this the way you’re going to respond to us “Arm Chair Experts”
paulson games wrote: However the underlying decisions I make in running my company are not up for debate.
Then why ask Us? No one’s debating with you Paulson… obviously you’re going to do things how you want regardless of what we say… so you’ll end up with a DP9/CAV fan base but even smaller cause you’re an unknown (yes you’re a very very small fish with a slightly bad attitude) full DIY garage heavy metal models that really is rapidly becoming a thing of the past. You act like you can't get solid Plastic sprues off a 45,000 goal... Some of us "Arm Chair Experts" Know what we're talking about despite not running a company, to assume we don't is to insult the intelligence of an entire community of people that thrive on Information, News, Rumors and Process…
You’re no more than a fan with tiny website and a spincaster get over yourself
Paulson: “I’m making a Kickstarter what should I make my product out of?”
Possible customers: “Plastic… please no metal we hate working with metal”
Possible customers: “Plastic, it can cost a little more but research it like I did you'll see it's worth it in the long run, you might gain a lot of fans”
Possible customers: “Resin would work to… maybe even with metal barrels and bits”
Paulson: “ None of that’s going to work, Quit trying to tell me how to make my “lil’ mens” Go buy Robotech if you don’t like my all metal line you armchair experts, No one tells me how to ruin my own company!!! This is not up for Debate!!!”
Good luck man… I gotta feeling you’re already sunk.
BTW Good back pedal with RiTides... save that face to sell that merch...
Not that I should feed trolls but lets take a look at this.
5deadly wrote:When people say they can't afford to plan a KS for plastic I say Dreamforge and Malifaux.
Malifaux is character driven skirmish game that is mid-level in popularity going all styrene plastic.
Dreamforge made some huge kits in styrene and over time will see a nice profit as will Wyrd.
Both started out with metal lines, while they are increasing their use of plastics the majority of Malifaux is still metal. Neither company did a straight shot into plastics, neitehr have the big boys like GW or Privateer. While you can always aim to shoot the moon, I prefer a more realistic vantage point that's based on proven company business models.
I have a solid grasp on what it takes to go plastic.I really do. It’s not that far out of reach with KS and with proper planing it could work out really well.
Care to share where your plastics industry knoweldege stems from? do you have any sort of proven industry experience at all. It doesn't look like it which is why I termed you as an arm chair advisor. You seem quite vocal yet don't actually back it up with anything useful.
Also I never stated that plastic wouldn't be feasible, but in doing so that it would invovle some delays and additional steps which would push back the launch of the kickstarter. As most people have been very vocal about seeing the game as soon as possible I wanted to ask if a later start due to plastic was an issue. A plan can be set in place but requires more time and it according changes my strategy on how to approach the kcikstarter. I'd like to see plastic happen as they are ideal for the game, but it may not be posisble at this point due to resources.
I'm seeing a lot of no metal votes and resin won't stand up to the tiny bits.
You can listen to the fans or just say "well their going to be metal so don't bother pledging" as was basically said above.
Or you can misread the statement and get all butt hurt.
It's not a case of "don't bother pledging" but rather if you are 100% against metal and only want plastic then that may not be somthing I can realistically fulfill and I want to state that upfront rather than lead people on.
Over the long haul you'll build a bigger fan base and have molds that last forever.
But what do I know....
I understand you're a small casting company with investments made in equipment and such I get it… but in the “end game” what do you really want to be? A GW aftermarket/ add-on company turned mediocre game company or “well I started with Home casting set-up but soon turned it into a AAA Wargame company” I’m sure you want to be the AAA company.
You can’t do both either man, you can’t be the 1 man show DIY AAA world wide supplier. Have more faith in your fantastic Idea Mr. Paulson. Figure out how much outsourcing the casting and production to China will cost and Go Big man.
Wow a metal game can only be mediocre? Somebody better tell Privateer they've been doing it wrong despite having the 2nd best moving miniatures game in the US. They started using only metal, 90% of their line is still metal yet they never made the big leagues, yeah ok.
I find it insulting that you suggest that simply by using metal I'd be stuck as "A GW aftermarket/ add-on company turned mediocre game company " Mighty high horse to be on considering you do what exactly in the gaming industry?
Not everyone has to be the AAA company, some people are content to run a mom and pop place and not manage a giant walmart. If I make a living on what I do and I'm happy with the game and the designs why would i feel the need to be the next Privateer or GW? There is plenty of room between the bottoms dregs of the gaming world and the top. You obviously seem to think that only the big dogs are capable of producing a game of worth, which is sad as some of the best stuff out there is coming from independant publishers.
Also what if not everyone wants to sell out to China, there are a lot of people out there that don't care for the poor business ethics and standards that seem to run rampant over there. I find it funny that you suggest the only way to go big is by outsourcing to China when the biggest boy (GW) has just pulled their base out of China. While in many areas it's a cost cutting device there's plenty of reasons and posisble concerns on why not to go with exported labor and industry.
You keep throwing the DIY idea around like it's a bad thing, wtf? Even GW started as a DIY company. Not that I'm claiming to know everything in the business but I am into my 5th year of business that I've built up by my own hand, that's more than what most start up companies manage and I've yet to see any indication that you have any experience doing the same. Where's you big industry busting game and track record?
I think you have a great idea here. I’ll pledge 150ish for plastics for sure. I’m afraid you quickly fall to the wayside being the Metal/Resin Home caster DIY company.
Again you seem awfully judgemental for a dude who doesn't have experience in the industry. There's a lot of games that start up DIY, it's pretty standard for the industry it's a shame you seem to have a problem with them, maybe with all your obvious genius you can show us exactly how we're all doing it wrong...
Rather than circular arguments over who said what to whom, the intricacies of slights and offences taken, and progressing towards Dakka Rule number 1 being broken, can we please drag this back to actual discussion of the products promoted?
I have followed other companies through the Metal -> Resin -> Plastic transition, and am a more than capable modeler. If there has to be metal, bring it on.
I keep hearing about this elusive group, while I've only manged to witness the ocassional "chicks dig robots" member I'm quite certain we could all use more of this.
Since there's very few models needed for a game metal would be fine by me.
Since you have experience with resin, as I have other casts of yours, resin is fin and probably most preferred by me.
Since plastic tooling is expensive, and few models are needed for a game, I just don't see this as a good option. The return on investment would be really high.
As for a kick starter with a stretch goal to switch to plastic . If I put down money for a product, then it switches, I would hav to pull my pledge. I'd rather see the first ks get the game and models out there and develop a customer base, then go back in a future ks and go plastic for the mass market release later.
Edit: after all, who doesn't like to have the bragging rights of I have the original ______version of the model from when the game was released.
as much as I'd like to see a member of that group, I think the 'chicks dig (miniatures of) giant robots' category is so small, I've only seen 3 or 4 on my 45 year span on this planet.
However, as to material. I would be considering myself lucky if it could be what is generally termed, I believe, "Mixed Media". I.e. mainly a decent resin, with white metal .... "Spikey bits" that I can superglue on after the model has been painted and generally assembled so that I can minimise the danger of breaking them with my ham fists whilst I work on other bits of the model. If your budget stretches to photo-etched bits to increase the detail, I'll be in hog heaven.
Love the designs, looking forward to seeing them made real.
OK, yes, I'd prefer plastics, a la dreamforge, but would not want you to over stretch yourself and put your hard work at risk - you could pay £40,000 in tooling for plastics and leave yourself a whole lot of models to sell to break even. Just let us know you'll consider re-doing the models in plastic if/when you can afford it.
I have followed other companies through the Metal -> Resin -> Plastic transition, and am a more than capable modeler. If there has to be metal, bring it on.
I am with GBL on this one. Metal has its challenges which are mainly on the fact that they LOVEEEEE~~~~~~ to break at sometimes what feels like the lightest of taps. ON THE OTHER HAND, metal is fun to work with when customizing and building due to being said difficult. Yes you may have to take EXTRA care of things like pinning and such but to me, a player and a rabid lover of the "personal touch" (read: battle damage ^_^ ) this is a challenge I will HAPPILY take on!
Not a joke, I'm curious as to what brand of super glue you guys use?
For my stuff I typically use krazy glue brand and that stuff is amazing, I very rarely ever have issues with it letting go (even when I wish it would) I have 25 year old battletech guys that still have their original glue intact and I never pin stuff. I often had to hold the darn parts for like 15 minutes to get them to set up but once they were set it usually held for good.
I've found that the krazy glue gel version is no where near as good as the standard liquid. GW super glue has worked pretty poorly for me as well. Just wondering if the experiences vary based on the brands being used.
This is the verison I get, usually in the two pack as I go through a lot of it.
I also make sure to shake it before each use as it does settle which can result in a weaker bond (just triple check to make sure the cap is on)
I use a combination of BSI's Insta-Flex+ and their Insta-Set accelerator, I never have issues with things breaking (for the most part). If it takes a tumble from the table, I've found the damn thing no matter the glue I use will almost always break. However this stuff I've found has been pretty solid and works well, the setting in seconds thing is also awesome .
As to the whole metal, plastic, resin debate. Paulson, I know I met you at AdeptiCon (I was the shorter bearded guy at the OTL booth), and while I don't have the massive experience with casting as others (namely yourself) do, I'd like to think that I'm a solid enough hobbyist that I could build and enjoy your models regardless of material.
With that said, I'd love a plastic/resin body with metal bits, mainly for the reasons Conrad Turner listed. In the end though as long as everything looks good, I wouldn't care if the thing was made out of playdoh
I see people sighting my move to plastic as an example, I can tell you that it was done at great risk, only AFTER I sold the models in metal and resin to make sure there was a sustainable market. The simple fact is that the KS did not pay for all of the tooling costs. I am fortunate enough to have strong sales into the supply chain to deal with the remaining costs over time, but there is no guarantees of success for myself or anyone.
Guys, take it easy on what you demand from Paulson. The game world is littered with the carcasses of companies that grew too fast and made huge investment before the market had proven itself.
Jon is a guy with a dream, some great concepts and ideas… Please allow him to do what he needs to do to grow the company in a manner that is not financial suicide. The man knows resin, he does it well and he knows if and where he needs to use metal parts for durability.
My only suggestion in this area is that if a KS sees amazing success, then he may find that it is cost effective to move to plastic. If the KS goes crazy and Jon pulls in 1mil+ then he may be looking at the issue of delivering 100,000 resin models. There is a tipping point where producing models in quantity by resin becomes unfeasible and the move to plastic is the only way to deliver. Jon must gauge the risks, and if he chooses, set a level where it makes sense for him. Demanding that he comes out of the gate in plastic is just unreasonable and a receipe for financial disaster.
As to the superglue question, I use Gorilla Superglue by brand… it has a rubber component that allows it to stretch a bit before breaking, but most often I use epoxy and I scratch the surface to provide a rough area to grip to.
I don't use any specific brand, just whatever is around when I'm at the store and remember I need it. Or if I get halfway home and realize I forgot to get it, I'll stop at home depot and get whatever is cheap. The kind I have at the moment is a generic brand with a label on it with the game shop's name and address.
I never really had too many issues with breakage, I pin things and I guess I'm just more careful with my army men
Necros the "Generic" you are referring too is probably BSI. They are the trusted cyanoacrylate for most hobby shops. They sell their glues with a blank space on the front for the model shop to stamp their own name on. If you look on the back you'll see BSI or "Bob Smith Industries" in smaller letters.
I use BSI almost exclusively, but I have more than one formula based on requrements.
Instaflex+ is a great general use glue with just a touch of rubber so heavier models can flex a bit. I used to use Gorrilla "Impact Tough" ruberized, but now I mostly go with BSI as it seems to dry a bit faster.
I also usually keep a bottle of water thin "Instacure" on my workbench. It flows into cracks like nothing else and is great for reinforcing bonds or for bonds where the pieces are perfectly mated and have a large surface area. It bonds fast.
Of course that is for metal and resin. For most plastic (unless I want to disassemble later) I use Plastruct Plastic weld solvent glue. Brush applicator and water thin so it's no mess, no gooey, and absolutely permanent bonds.
As well as being cheaper-per-oz than almost any other superglue, BSI (and most hobby shops that carry BSI) also sells extra nozzles and caps so you never loose a bottle due to cloggage.
When it comes to metal, glue doesn't matter as much to me, as I'm an obsessive pinner. In my opinion, better to do the job once, and do it right, than to hope that only chemical bonds and careful handling will keep everything safe.
Valhallan- that's why I started using greenstuff in my joints with the gorilla brand super glue. The glue by itself is pretty strong... but I have yet to have any joint that I've used the combination on break.
I've tried pinning but find it's an art that eludes me so this is my solution, which while time-consuming, I think is not more time-consuming than pinning, and is extremely strong.
I have followed other companies through the Metal -> Resin -> Plastic transition, and am a more than capable modeler. If there has to be metal, bring it on.
Agreed. Even if its all resin I can handle that. Ill replace any easily damaged bits like thin gun barrels with plastic or metal rod myself, no big deal.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cyporiean wrote: Throwing my vote into the 'I don't care about material, chicks dig giant robots' category.
I knew I liked you for some reason...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
paulson games wrote: Not a joke, I'm curious as to what brand of super glue you guys use?
I have followed other companies through the Metal -> Resin -> Plastic transition, and am a more than capable modeler. If there has to be metal, bring it on.
Agreed. Even if its all resin I can handle that. Ill replace any easily damaged bits like thin gun barrels with plastic or metal rod myself, no big deal.
I am a big fan of the Resin N Scale Battletech Garage kits that have caught on recently, I can see these models being that quality or higher. I really don't see what the problem is.
I think I might use something very similar to BSI, but the nozzle cap is completely different, Atomic Glue from Udisco, which distributes models for a good part of eastern Canada (none of the "kiddie stuff" we like to play with) But I'm an obsessive pinner anyway, I enjoy the modelling and painting parts much more than the playing. My friends all have terminal cases of the two-kids-or-more.
Ugh, I couldn't imagine having to fullfill that many pledges in resin. Paulson, you have my sympathies... as for my money you knew it was a shoo-in.
Perfectly happy with metal miniatures! I've actually bought metal 15mm WW2 stuff over the plastic examples, despite the cost, just because I prefer the tactile-feel element of pushing little metal vehicles around a board.
I also feel that, even at such a small scale, metal has got that little bit more definition in some of the details than plastic sometimes has.
In answer to the glue question, I use Rocket - quite expensive, but the medium thickness stuff is wonderful for gluing metal.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I tend to glue metal models with a combination of BSI cyanoacrylate and my tears of frustration.
If you mixed it with the blood of a virgin, you'd be alright.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I've just done sum' thinkin' (yes, one of those days) and I wouldn't mind using those mecha as a more modern version of a Sentinel either, honestly. If the Sentinel was any good, mind you.
Mad4Minis wrote: GBL...I have recent purchased 2 of those N scale kits and they are nice. The same quality for Mecha Front would be perfect.
Agreed. I was looking for a good rules system to run them with, and this popped up. I think they may be a little out of scale unfortunately.
The N scale is equal to 10mm, Mecha Front is 15mm, so off by a bit. Might have to adjust movement and ranges a bit, but other than that it should work fine.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I tend to glue metal models with a combination of BSI cyanoacrylate and my tears of frustration.
I have a pretty extensive collection of the Macross Nichimo brand plastic kits as well as the Dougram stuff by Takara and had the scale of those lines in mind when I was doing early concepts for Mecha Front. (The dougram stuff is a mix of 1/144 scale and 1/200 scale) They tend to be a bit on the taller side so they fit very well for the mediums and heavies. They are significantly taller than what my light mecha will be but there's not much in the rules that uses a fixed height measurment or requirement. The only thing that would be a draw back is that you'd give up some degree of cover. But even when standing behind levels one buildings light mechs are usually in partial cover and never completely concealed so it likely won't be too bad.
All those kits fit nicely on 60mm bases whcih is what I use for mecha front, and movements and ranges are talken from the foot print of those bases so you wouldn't need to rescale anything. So if you have a bunch of those kits just toss them on some bases and they'd be a great option for test playing the game or running your own customized units. It's basically what I started with when I was working on my earlier Robotech game and then re-engineered for Mecha Front.
Buy your bases from http://proxiemodels.com/ they are a good deal and I'll be using his bases for my game (plus I already use them on all my n scale models)
All those kits are a bit static in pose but really easy to repose with some imagination and double so if you pick up some large beads or wooden spheres at a hobby/crafts store so that you can articulate the shoulders or elbows a bit more. They can shape up very nicely with a small touch
of modelling love.
Here's an example of one with the joints reworked with what I think are 5 & 10mm spheres
The downside to the nichimo/takara stuff is there's nothing that'd fill in for a quad very well, you could probably get a larger scale crab gunner of blizzard from dougram but you'd have to shorten the legs considerably and they still would look very anorexic. The larger scale kits are also a bit harder to find and tend to be pricey so it's not all that great for proxying. But being a devote lover of all things mecha there's always appeal in having as many differant kits as possible just because they are awesome
For ligh mechs some of the armored trooper votoms toys and models may work. I don't own any of those so I can't recommend any particular kits but they are smaller so I think they'd work ok.
Also the gashapon toys for front mission are *the bomb*, cheap really well detailed with lots of articulation and on ebay for about $10 a piece.
The classic mechs designs for those series are simply awesome to have and they helped shape a lot of the foundation concept that's evolved into Mecha Front. IMO you can never have enough mecha and I recommend to get some of those, just make sure to budget so you can also pick up my models when they are out I have spent crazy amounts of time and money on those japanese kits and if you put in the work to update stuff like the hands and pose I can't recommend them enough as they are an excellent price and it's also a nice part of gaming and modelling history to work on.
The older kits also directly inspired Battledroids/Battletech and were the liscensed as the original minis for the game before they started doing the metal versions. Battletech came about because at the time of the game creation you could buy the kits from vending machines and they decided to write rules for them, and then later started making their own smaller scale stuff in metal.
The blockhead and bigfoot (aka wolverine and battlemaster) are both the same height and are even height with Nth's Zeus model. Battletech shortened their verison of the wolverine, in dougram it's the same height as the bigfoot/battlemaster.
The soltic & dougram (griffin & shadowhawk) are smaller and are the height of the highlander, but they seem a bit smaller as they don't have as much mass.
A lot of the differnat mecha had their scale reduced when they were translated into battletech to convey the diferant weight classes. But if you aren't hard set on scale and don't mind mixing lines they are really awesome for doing a classic 3025 battletech themed game in a larger scale, or stanging your own version of Super Robot Wars. If you want to go deeper into the SRWars pattern there's also several gundam kits hat are in 1/200 scale and several gashapon figures that also fit very nicely. I lean more towards the battletech theme, adding gundam into a btech mix is a mortal sin that should be punishable by death
Those guys need to redo that video in hi-rez, like, yesterday. All I could see was a pixellated skull being dipped into a vat and then looking just as pixellated. Then I turned it off.
paulson games wrote: The blockhead and bigfoot (aka wolverine and battlemaster) are both the same height and are even height with Nth's Zeus model. Battletech shortened their verison of the wolverine, in dougram it's the same height as the bigfoot/battlemaster.
The soltic & dougram (griffin & shadowhawk) are smaller and are the height of the highlander, but they seem a bit smaller as they don't have as much mass.
Awesome news, thanks. Looks like Ill have to try and scrape up $100 for that set. Im not actually looking to reproduce Battletech, so size discrepancies are fine, as long as they match in with the mecha I already have, which it seems they will.
Just want to add my support. I own several of your models and you do great work and id love to have the big stompy robots youve got art for smashing eachother up on the table. Ive looked iver the rules you have and it looks great so far.
keisukekun wrote: Just want to add my support. I own several of your models and you do great work and id love to have the big stompy robots youve got art for smashing eachother up on the table. Ive looked iver the rules you have and it looks great so far.
Little confused on the initiative rules though
Thanks I appreciate the support from the LOTB members, the crazy N scale stuff on there was a huge influence on me.
As for the initiative stuff what part is confusing? I should have an updated rules set available this week and if there's stuff I can clarify I'll try and fit it in.
Base idea is that at the start of the round each player rolls initiative for each individual unit they control. Then the unit with the highest initiative goes first and does whatever actions it has available. Once that unit has no more actions the next highest initiative unit goes. Unlike Btech/40k/Warmachine players do not have seperate turns, so all the action is resolved based on what the individual initiative order works out to be.
Example:
Player John has two units, player Mike likewise has two units.
John rolls a 5 for unit A, and an 8 for unit B.
Mike rolls 4 for his unit C, and 10 for his unit D.
So the order of actions would go Mike Unit D goes first, ---> then John Unit B, ---> then John Unit A, ----> then Mike Unit C.
Does that help?
As for the kickstarter date I'm waiting on the first test print to come in before I sumbit everything to KS. I should have the model in by end of the month and I anticipate that will all be in place by the first week of June. Exact date I'm unsure of as it can take KS several days to a week for them to review it for approval.
Thats how it sounded when i read it. So then would it be possible for one side to move all his units before the other side can move any of his? You should provide a few examples (i don't remember seeing one) as its a unique concept (at least i haven't heard of it before). It just seemed like it would be unweildy when fielding larger forces so i wasn't sure if i was understanding it right. How many turns does a game normally last? So far it seems like combat would be pretty devestating. Less plinking like you see in bt sometimes and more smashing the crap out of each other.
Thats how it sounded when i read it. So then would it be possible for one side to move all his units before the other side can move any of his? You should provide a few examples (i don't remember seeing one) as its a unique concept (at least i haven't heard of it before). It just seemed like it would be unweildy when fielding larger forces so i wasn't sure if i was understanding it right. How many turns does a game normally last? So far it seems like combat would be pretty devestating. Less plinking like you see in bt sometimes and more smashing the crap out of each other.
Depending on how the dice resolve it is posisble that a player might end up moving and shooting with all of his mechs before the other player has a chance to. That's what we'd refer to as "A Bad Day"
That situation can be really strong but in most games it'll be a very rare occurance with full sized forces. When it comes down to an end game turn it can happen more often; when one player might have 1 mech while his opponent has 2-3, that single mech will be very hard pressed but if you only have a single model vs a pack then your are in trouble regardless of how the iniaitive pans out. (there will be modified initiative rules for large games with forces above 6 units, they will be managed by squads) To help keep track of turn order players use tokens next to their units to designate what iniative order they act on and also use tokens to track how many actions a unit has. (or has spent)
To help offset things a bit reactionary fire is crucial, while you take the shot at a penalty it has the potential to stop or even destroy an enemy mid turn. Reactionary fire triggers off of an action completeing within a models field of vision. So if they move into view they can be shot before they have the opportunity to aim and shoot. The trade off is mechs that engage in reactionary fire do so at the cost of not having that action during their own turn. While the game mechanics are fairly simple the timing of actions can add a lot to the strategy used.
Combat is very quick, missiles are super deadly and can often one-shot the lighter mechs and even the largest mechs can be brought down with a lucky roll. The game is meant to focus on movement and very rapid combat. So far with standard sized forces of 5-6 mechs per side the average game play is 3-4 turns. Even though the game is quick its meant to engage both players with almost every action so it feels like you're active more than other game systems.
Yeh thats what is really getting me excited about this game. I am not fond of games without a reaction system. I love infinity and the simultaneous combat of BT so this rule system is getting me excited for its unique take on initiative and its reaction system. I like all parties to be involved in all parts of the game.
I have a very small amount of exposure to Infinity and it has some really cool mechanics, but as somebody completely new to that game I find the sheer amount of mechanics and complexity a bit overwhelming. Their reactionary element is cool but still having a "you go; I go" turn sequence is kinda meh especially when you can rambo a single unit like mad while the rest of the team does nothing.
The initiative system I'm using is more reflective with RPG stuff like D&D where individual charaters each have a seperate initiative score. Typically that tends not to work as well with miniatures games, but it can if the model count is low. Because it's a bit out of the box It takes a game or two for tabletop players to get used to the flow, but it's second nature for my friends who are primarily RPG players. Nothing too original or crazy, but it initially feels slightly differant than a lot of other miniatures games.
Im not so much of a fan of missiles being "super deadly". I can see players changing mechs to carry all missiles, games becoming nothing but a bunch of missile carrying mechs trying to alpha strike eachother. It kinda makes the guns pointless.
Mad4Minis wrote: Im not so much of a fan of missiles being "super deadly". I can see players changing mechs to carry all missiles, games becoming nothing but a bunch of missile carrying mechs trying to alpha strike eachother. It kinda makes the guns pointless.
I had this thought as well. It would allow for a sweet ECM and ECCM mechanic, which is a nice role for light mechs. Light Unit kitted out with ECM suites running interference for the heavy hitters and causing all kinda hell for target acquisition of fire and forget weapons. Rules can be adjusted I'm sure this early in the games life cycle. I presume lots of play testing will need to be done to balance weapon loadouts. I trust Paulson to fine tune his baby til it sings!
. I have a feeling now that you have done so, paulson will be posting the unsegemented version in here pretty soon 
