Justyn wrote: The fact that they won't let you pledge for just destroids is also very annoying. I don't want any of the products I would need to pledge for to attach a few boxes of destroids to.
That's not true.
Just pledge your amount and select No Reward.
Then at the end when they send the survey, you just put in the items you want.
Which can be all add-on Destroids if you wish.
Indeed. Just pledge the princely sum of $1 and then add on all the destroids you want.
Now thats tempting...I wouldnt mind adding some unseens to my Battletech forces...just for the nostalgia.
You sir are my hero. I have the same blockade runner on my shelf, such a great looking ship.
I've got one out in the garage, in storage. Might be time to break that puppy out again.
It's great ship for the tabletop game and almost to scale (should be about a third bigger roughly). Just to clarify since I apparently deleted my disclaimer with my post's multiple revisions, the idea for using it as well as the pic are not actually mine. I picked up that exact same model on ebay cheap (Star Wars Collector Fleet Blockade Runner) because of that pic and the accompanying boardgamegeek scenario to use it with (google "redeemer x-wing scenario" to find it). The only thing I don't like about the model is that the two turbolaser turrets look like toys due to the thickness of the barrels but it doesn't bother me enough to want to cut them off and convert them with 40k or Heavy Gear bits (and ruin the resale value of the model). There's another one that doesn't have working lights/sounds and is a fair bit dirty (yellowed plastic and dried snot or something in corners) for only $13 shipped within the US on ebay for those interested in picking up one. I'll be using it on May 4th at the local store during an X-wing night (since FFG's mini star wars convention is that day) and will post pics over in the appropriate forum (so as not to derail this one further).
Justyn wrote: The fact that they won't let you pledge for just destroids is also very annoying. I don't want any of the products I would need to pledge for to attach a few boxes of destroids to.
That's not true.
Just pledge your amount and select No Reward.
Then at the end when they send the survey, you just put in the items you want.
Which can be all add-on Destroids if you wish.
Indeed. Just pledge the princely sum of $1 and then add on all the destroids you want.
Now thats tempting...I wouldnt mind adding some unseens to my Battletech forces...just for the nostalgia.
For $5 each, I think nostalgia is plenty enough. I strongly suspect that a future stretch goal will be to double the Spartan/Gladiator pack contents as well (making them $5 each). $41 should get you two of each in all likelihood by the end of the campaign.
We still haven't reached the free Roy Fokker stretch goal yet but the preview of the next one is up and another relative boost to the value of the $130/140 pledge level compared to two core sets... It's a free Glaug with Blitzkrieg and up pledges at $280k. Between Roy and this Glaug, the previous "gap" that I posted in value between two core sets at $160 and the $140 pledge level (after their contents are evened out) has disappeared.
As an additional note, a friend of mine at Adepticon got to talk to Ninja and got a few small scoops. There is apparently a male power armor planned (no surprise there) and he likely told me the meaning of the "life is cheap" rule that Zentraedi have. Apparently battlepod squadrons in the demo that are reduced but not wiped out get reinforcement pods at the start of the next turn.
Yeah the latest sneak peak jumped the number by about 3K, also was some info on rules was provided by Fantasy Arc
Stats across the card are, Move, Attack, Defense, and Piloting skill. Alternating activation of squadrons. Shooting is basic defense minus attack with a few modifiers (plus if you are in the target's back arc, plus if your squad is in coherency (2"), etc.) Command dice each turn you can spend on firing additional weapons or dodging incomming attacks. Appear to be one point per mecha plus a leader bonus. Dice rolled for successful hit are placed by target because number rolled translates to the difficulty of the dodge roll, if player soends command dice to do it. Battlepods have a 5+ save against missles due to anti-missle lasers. Battlepods move 7" plus a 7" jump that ignors verticle terrain. Swarm scenario we were playing dead Battlepods come back on the next turn on 5+. Veritechs in fighter mode must move at least half their move and then also 12" after their move in the direction they are facing. Suggested table is 4x6 with 30-40 models.
Those are the highlights at least. I might remember a detail or two later and/or do the demo again. Minis were preproduction metal and looked great.
Cool, thanks for the update. That info jives with what my friend told me about partial squadrons getting reinforcement pods although he thought it was a pod rule (not necessarily a scenario one). As a quick update for those interested in the MACII, they posted a "look what we found" pic of a veritech standing next to a MACII which likely gives us an idea of the size difference between the future models. That might be the first add on I commit to getting (waiting on the FPA still!).
The Roy Fokker VF-1S was enough to commit me to my first Kickstarter. I actually have my original Palladium Robotech rule books from 1986, so this is a nice blast from the past. The minis looks good, hopefully the game will be a blast. I'd like to get some Female Battle Armor for the Zentradi at some point. And even better, the Super Veritech and an Armored Veritech.
I believe somewhere in the comments of the KS it was said by Palladium that there will be Zentradi power armor (male/female) and the M.A.C. will be coming as well. They said that units will be from all 3 "stages/eras" of Robotech.
Also, the decals were confirmed in the comments as well.
They sneak in little info like this here and there, you just have to search for it.
[Edit] Since some other models have made it in....The crown jewel of my Robotech collection is the Revell Robotech Factory kit. It's pretty much NIB as all the pieces are still sealed, but the box is not because I couldn't contain myself from opening it. I guard it like nothing else I own.
Lysenis wrote: My annoyance is that they made this AFTER Paulson Games went to them. . . .
Even worse, after Paulson did a lot of prep work for getting the game going. It seems that once they saw the profit potential they decided to do it in house and pocket the cash.
Oh well..I think its better in the end, it gives Paulson a chance to do his Mecha Front game, with his own (awesome) mecha designs. Kickstarter for that should be dropping in a few weeks, and Ill be going in on that for sure.
TalonZahn wrote: I believe somewhere in the comments of the KS it was said by Palladium that there will be Zentradi power armor (male/female) and the M.A.C. will be coming as well. They said that units will be from all 3 "stages/eras" of Robotech.
Also, the decals were confirmed in the comments as well.
They sneak in little info like this here and there, you just have to search for it.
[Edit] Since some other models have made it in....The crown jewel of my Robotech collection is the Revell Robotech Factory kit. It's pretty much NIB as all the pieces are still sealed, but the box is not because I couldn't contain myself from opening it. I guard it like nothing else I own.
My annoyance is that they made this AFTER Paulson Games went to them. . .
Expanding on what Mad4minis said, I was following the Paulson Games thing very closely from the moment he announced it and was pretty upset when they canned his ideas since his prototype pieces were incredibly well detailed and accurate. It was him and Tom from the Robotech Battles blog that got this made, it was 100% their push to pitch it to HG and palladium and convince them it was a good idea. It was VERY disheartening when Paulson first announced they canceled it and doubly so when Palladium later announced they were doing their own Robotech Minis game without Paulson or his fantastic mechs, especially since at the time it seemed so likely that they were just gonna half-arse everything.
But the more I think about it, the more I think Palladium did the right thing. Paulson is 1 guy working from his house and although his models are top notch, they take him forever to get from CAD sculpt to prototype to release and they're resin. There's simply no way, none, that Paulson could have produced enough figs in enough time and kept up his standard of quality in the same timeframe that Ninja Division has been able to. It sucks for him (sucks a LOT) and he deserved better, but the game that goes to market is going to be a MUCH more solid product and will be immensely easier to sell to people.
Palladium took a labor of love from a very passionate pair of artists and fans and gave the idea over to a whole team of professionals to turn into an actual, quality product with all the production standards of the best games currently hitting the market. The game is better for it, the gamers are better for it, and I think even Paulson is better for it since he's now free to work full-out on Mecha Front AND he's still getting a Robotech game to play, which is what he wanted from the outset. I just hope the process didn't leave him too bitter to enjoy it (even if he'd be completely justified)
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for the KS it also appears that they've been looking at the bad feedback, the last 3 stretch goals have all been freebies and have only been 20k apart instead of 30k/40k. Makes me wonder if they jumbled around some stretches to appease people and make the $140 much more appealing, much earlier on than they had planned. Good move I think. Plus the MAC II should raise a lot of money, it's almost guaranteed to be a paid stretch and probably a popular one.
Kalamadea wrote: As for the KS it also appears that they've been looking at the bad feedback, the last 3 stretch goals have all been freebies and have only been 20k apart instead of 30k/40k. Makes me wonder if they jumbled around some stretches to appease people and make the $140 much more appealing, much earlier on than they had planned. Good move I think. Plus the MAC II should raise a lot of money, it's almost guaranteed to be a paid stretch and probably a popular one.
Keep in mind - freebies are the death of many of these campaigns (not in the campaign itself - but the backside when the company actually has to manufacture and ship all that extra free stuff). I like them, and they are good for generating hype - but a free $20K stretch goal when there are 500 backers will end up costing them $100K by the time the campaign is done and they have 3000 backers who are still getting that. The stretch goals need to be large enough to pay for the current goal, plus anything free that will be given to any new backers that came along during the course of the campaign.
I don't mind so much paying for added options, I also don't mind that the size of the stretch goals gets larger (they need to after all in order to account for the additional fulfillment requirements). It is better for a project to be healthy on the backside as opposed to barely being able to pay for all the related costs when it is over and done with. One thing that I do wish would be happening is more "new" stuff getting added faster. I like what is there now - and no doubt, with 29 days left to go - there will be plenty of time for the rest of it to get worked in...but it would be nice to maybe see something like a stretch with "Free dice upgrade and paid Zentradi Power Armor" or something along those lines in order to move through all the potential miniatures a bit faster. A lot of people are waiting to see their specific favorite figures get added - and that can drag things down a bit...even more than large stretch goals and lack of freebies.
Also:
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It is fairly interesting to follow the comment stream, a lot of people are commenting on how they think this campaign will top out at $500,000 - which based on past campaigns...I would guess is off by a factor of 5-10.
It sounds to me like "Ninja Division" already has everything all sculpted up with molds ready to be used. Even the KS info at the bottom says everything is just waiting to go to manufacturing.
This KS seems more like an attempt to recoup what they already spent gearing up for launch.
I agree with some of your ideas, but not all. I doubt that where a startup company would fail, will affect this KS at all. Specifically the backside slide of costs, time, delivery, etc. These guys are not a one man or small shop. They purposely went out an put together a team that pulled off a very well run KS and applied them to this project.
I have no doubt they will deliver more product on schedule, as I feel they already have the product stored away.
This could also be another reason for the pacing of the Stretch Goals. They know what they have and can deliver. Many other Kickstarters, even from well run companies, have stretch goals that are no more than sketch art.
TalonZahn wrote: I believe somewhere in the comments of the KS it was said by Palladium that there will be Zentradi power armor (male/female) and the M.A.C. will be coming as well. They said that units will be from all 3 "stages/eras" of Robotech.
Also, the decals were confirmed in the comments as well.
They sneak in little info like this here and there, you just have to search for it.
[Edit] Since some other models have made it in....The crown jewel of my Robotech collection is the Revell Robotech Factory kit. It's pretty much NIB as all the pieces are still sealed, but the box is not because I couldn't contain myself from opening it. I guard it like nothing else I own.
The backdrop would make some great terrain and you could probably ignore the size difference for the utility vehicles but the mechs would be out scale.
So if you've got $60+ to spend on terrain for this it might not be a bad buy.
The backdrop would make some great terrain and you could probably ignore the size difference for the utility vehicles but the mechs would be out scale.
So if you've got $60+ to spend on terrain for this it might not be a bad buy.
It is fairly interesting to follow the comment stream, a lot of people are commenting on how they think this campaign will top out at $500,000 - which based on past campaigns...I would guess is off by a factor of 5-10.
While the initial rush was higher but shorter than I expected, it seems to have settled down to around $20k a day. Some days with mediocre stretch goals like dice upgrades will be slower while other days with highly anticipated goals like MAC2 will likely be higher... capped off with a final push roughly equal to the first rush as people who arent following it day to day get reminders and pile on the add ons. If I'm right and nothing unexpected happens (aka another palladium PR blunder), they should hit around 900k. As much as I like robotech, I don't see it reaching the 5 million you mentioned.
Alpharius wrote: I'm already in on the Kickstarter - I'm talking about the Factory kit!
And I think your $900K estimate will end up being way low...
I hope for everyone's stretch goals sake that I am and will wallow gleefully in my freebies as penance if needed. 900k-1 mill is what I'm expecting though.
warboss wrote: I hope for everyone's stretch goals sake that I am and will wallow gleefully in my freebies as penance if needed. 900k-1 mill is what I'm expecting though.
That's what I'm leaning towards as well, but this early in the campaign it's all guesstimates anyway. There is simply no way of knowing what stretch goal they might introduce that suddenly brings in hundreds or thousands of people who are otherwise on the fence. We know that the MAC II and male/female Zentraedi power armour suits will likely have a noticeable effect, but it's impossible to judge across what might be dozens of stretch goals over the next 4 weeks.
Pretty much all the GHQ stuff. My brother and I have large modern US and Russian armored forces so I think it'll be a treat to game part of the invasion with Zentraedi mecha versus conventional ground forces.
Thankfully, I've never seen Robotech. Otherwise, I'd be spending more money on yet another game I'd never get to play, because the miniatures look pretty nice.
Out of curiosity, is the show actually good, or is the love of it due to nostalgia for something that only a little kid could like? If I were to watch it for the first time now, as an adult, is there any chance I'd like it? Or is it more like Thundercats or Transformers, where kids loved it even though it was pretty awful?
If you like complex storylines, multiple love triangles, giant space battles, on-screen death of main characters, and a storyline spanning several generations of characters... then yeah Robotech is good
Albino Squirrel wrote: Thankfully, I've never seen Robotech. Otherwise, I'd be spending more money on yet another game I'd never get to play, because the miniatures look pretty nice.
Out of curiosity, is the show actually good, or is the love of it due to nostalgia for something that only a little kid could like? If I were to watch it for the first time now, as an adult, is there any chance I'd like it? Or is it more like Thundercats or Transformers, where kids loved it even though it was pretty awful?
@Albino, this kickstarter has me checking episodes on youtube and y'know they're not bad at all. At least the first 'era' Macross is.
It was Japanese so it escaped a lot of the US restrictions that GI Joe etc had. So in this war people die, even major characters. Heck in the second episode the hero machine guns a Zentrati in the back. By the end of the show whole cities are being nuked from orbit. This is not sanitized.
The sound track is a bit overwrought and Lynn Minmei needs to be gagged (if not spaced) but all in all, still watchable.
Albino Squirrel wrote: Thankfully, I've never seen Robotech. Otherwise, I'd be spending more money on yet another game I'd never get to play, because the miniatures look pretty nice.
Out of curiosity, is the show actually good, or is the love of it due to nostalgia for something that only a little kid could like? If I were to watch it for the first time now, as an adult, is there any chance I'd like it? Or is it more like Thundercats or Transformers, where kids loved it even though it was pretty awful?
I think it's pretty decent, in that they deal with themes that a lot of kids shows didn't back in the day, and (from what I've heard) pretty much never do anymore (example; a main character dying due to wounds inflicted in combat in the first few episodes).
That said, stepping back and looking at it critically, the animation hasn't aged incredibly well, but nostalgia generally covers over that, and an appreciation for the novelized series generally gets the rest.
It's a fun setting, might be worth seeing if you can tolerate a few episodes on Netflix, if not, perhaps glance at the first book and see if your imagination can cover what was lacking?
Albino, I recommend doing what I did. I first saw Robotech in 1990 or so. I put it in, not expecting much, while I was doing something else - maybe painting a mini or something. By the 6th episode or so I was totally focused on the show.
In the intervening 30 years or so since it was made, of course the animation quality is not up to modern standards (some episodes, animated by understudy animators, are downright poor). But the story is just solid. It really is. Sometimes, like any multi episode series, the story drags a little (And there are one or two clip/recap episodes that are annoying), but overall it is amazing. The amazing thing is that it's almost 30 years old and it did stuff that no other cartoon still has done including interracial relationships and a cross-dressing main character (in the later story arc). And it brazenly kills of characters, too, and has no problem showing the deaths of people on-screen. It was way ahead of it's time - in fact, it's still ahead of it's time today...
Automatically Appended Next Post: And for anyone without Netflix or Hulu, it's available to watch online for free...
The sound track is a bit overwrought and Lynn Minmei needs to be gagged (if not spaced) but all in all, still watchable.
Done...
A little something I found yesterday while looking for Adepticon footage of the demos (no luck in that except for about 5 seconds of Blue table painting video).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
UN Test Pilot wrote: So has anyone thought of some alternative color schemes for the Zentraedi?
Not too much yet. The only thing I came up with is painting the various pods in the female power armor color scheme for a cohesive look (or vice versa) instead of segregating the males and females by color like laundry.
Since I funded the KS I've been rewatching macross. It's great to see many of the elements that made it outstanding when I was a kid continue forward. You see some of the same themes power the other shows worked on by shoji kawamorri. It's very successful with eureka 7. Now I wish they would go into the invid war for the next KS. When they do finally get to invid war will the game have to rescale to make bigger models of the cyclone armour?
See, I know full well that I'm going to be supporting this KS. I know it, although I'm waiting a bit to throw down on it. The minute they start pumping out Invid Scouts, Troopers, Shock Troopers, and Enforcers, though...that's when I'll be throwing money at them by the handful.
It is fairly interesting to follow the comment stream, a lot of people are commenting on how they think this campaign will top out at $500,000 - which based on past campaigns...I would guess is off by a factor of 5-10.
While the initial rush was higher but shorter than I expected, it seems to have settled down to around $20k a day. Some days with mediocre stretch goals like dice upgrades will be slower while other days with highly anticipated goals like MAC2 will likely be higher... capped off with a final push roughly equal to the first rush as people who arent following it day to day get reminders and pile on the add ons. If I'm right and nothing unexpected happens (aka another palladium PR blunder), they should hit around 900k. As much as I like robotech, I don't see it reaching the 5 million you mentioned.
5-10 would put it between $2.5 and 5 million...but I am actually leaning heavily on the $5 million side of that equation. You have to remember when you compare it to recent campaigns (like the 12th one by CMoN or the 14th one by Mantic) - those initial bumps are caused by mailing lists that they have. A huge portion of their customers come in on the very first few days. I would guess this will be more like the growth of the first Mantic or CMoN campaign...except of course being day...3 I think we are now...it is already a great deal higher in terms of pledges and backers than any of those. Zombicide for example didn't cross $200K until around day 20 or so.
If you plot the past couple of days out on some of those first KS campaigns (as opposed to the however many they have done) the chart goes crazy high - like for like comparisons... Then you take into account what it is (extremely popular sci-fi license with huge nostalgia factor)... $5 million may well end up being very conservative in the end.
The big thing that will drive it higher though is word of mouth. Lots of people should start talking with friends and friends of friends about the new Robotech game they saw. That viral aspect is more important than anything that Palladium could or could not do to create buzz around the game and draw in the backers.
shade1313 wrote: See, I know full well that I'm going to be supporting this KS. I know it, although I'm waiting a bit to throw down on it. The minute they start pumping out Invid Scouts, Troopers, Shock Troopers, and Enforcers, though...that's when I'll be throwing money at them by the handful.
Sorry but they said that this particular kick starter is Macross only. Future expansions will cover the other two eras. Out of curiosity, do you like the macros part enough to participate?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sean_OBrien wrote: 5-10 would put it between $2.5 and 5 million...but I am actually leaning heavily on the $5 million side of that equation. You have to remember when you compare it to recent campaigns (like the 12th one by CMoN or the 14th one by Mantic) - those initial bumps are caused by mailing lists that they have. A huge portion of their customers come in on the very first few days. I would guess this will be more like the growth of the first Mantic or CMoN campaign...except of course being day...3 I think we are now...it is already a great deal higher in terms of pledges and backers than any of those. Zombicide for example didn't cross $200K until around day 20 or so.
I sincerely hope that you prove me completely wrong. We all benefit if you do.
Oooooo.... Big update just came via email. Roy Fokker is unlocked and each Glaug sprue (including the next freebie stretch goal) will now contain not only recon pod upgrade bits but a whole recon pod itself. *insert Balki Bartokamoose dance of joy* Roy Fokker will also have the skull and crossbones molded onto the model itself similar to GK and BA space marine shoulder pad symbols.
I still treasure my junior high readings of the "Jack McKinney" (James Luceno and Brian Daley) novels. I probably enjoyed those more than the cartoon, but the cartoon provided the visuals to go with the story. There is some gold in those hills, story-wise. This fun little kickstarter has me geeked enough to go watch some the Macross series. And I've never bought another miniature tabletop game (I did buy a few Rackham minis).
As for how much the KS will top out at, I lean more towards the 900K number before a 3M number. I'd love to be wrong, since I get all the freebies, but they can certainly get more money out of me with add-ons. I put down an extra 110 from the jump, to cover some prints and some Destroids.
Really enjoying watching "free stuff" get added, but I agree they need to balance it with add-ons, and make sure they make some bank, so I can get some hover tanks and Bioroids down the way.
shade1313 wrote: See, I know full well that I'm going to be supporting this KS. I know it, although I'm waiting a bit to throw down on it. The minute they start pumping out Invid Scouts, Troopers, Shock Troopers, and Enforcers, though...that's when I'll be throwing money at them by the handful.
Sorry but they said that this particular kick starter is Macross only. Future expansions will cover the other two eras. Out of curiosity, do you like the macros part enough to participate?
Yep, I'll definitely be picking up a ton of Macross stuff. Partly on its own merits, with a bunch of extra destroids as unseen BT minis. Lord knows I dearly wish the Glaug were smaller for BT (Marauder was always my very favorite mech, at least until Timber Wolves/Mad Cats came along), but for use in this game I know they've got to be the bigger size.
Many of you have been asking about the "recon upgrade" on the Glaug Officer's Battlepod. Originally it was intended to be a small upgrade bit that you would use to convert one of your existing Regult Battlepods into a Reconnaissance Battlepod. We have been working with how to layout the frame and are excited to say that it is no longer just a bit, but will be a complete Reconnaissance Battlepod!
Y'know, as much as everyone wants new minis to be unveiled, they've already shown most of the mecha from robotech (At least that I can remember). They are missing the M.A.C., zentradi infantry, artillery battlepod, and female power armor. Once (and if) those are all released won't the rest of the stretch goals just increase how many minis you get? All else I can think of are the zentradi dice, and maybe terrain.
Spartan-Kun wrote: Y'know, as much as everyone wants new minis to be unveiled, they've already shown most of the mecha from robotech (At least that I can remember). They are missing the M.A.C., zentradi infantry, artillery battlepod, and female power armor. Once (and if) those are all released won't the rest of the stretch goals just increase how many minis you get? All else I can think of are the zentradi dice, and maybe terrain.
I saw this kickstarter just before I went to Adepticon and play-tested the demo they have. First, they were giving out free battle pods (metal sculpts) at Adepticon. Second. I will address some of the speculation because I tried to chisel out info about the game release. Please keep in mind these were my impressions. To answer the weapons question about the gu11. The gun pod can be used in battloid and gerwalk. the only weapon that couldn't be used was the missiles in battloid mode.
There is a command point system ( you generate these command points at the beginning of the turn ) that allows you do special actions like "shoulder" hits, fire additional weapons and roll to try and swat incoming missles with your anti-missle defense. In my demo game the Valkyries were powerful but I was "assured" that the "life is cheap" rule was an ability to "respawn" the pods as long as an element of that squad is still on the board and that's how the demo was played out. I was told this is to simulate the never ending waves of pods descending like in episode 1.
Close combat with pods is no joke, I saw a 4 squad stomp Ricks Valkyrie for half its health killing him. Pods move quick: they move 7" with an addition leap of 7". You then figure they have range of 18 for their main gun. You activate by squad back and forth. The game operates on true line of sight with cover rules. The targeting mechanic was a vs system ( the icons I believe were Movement, shooting, armor and pilot ) that is easy to use (sorry for the vagueness but I only played one 15 min game and I didn't take notes since they were doing the to hit calculations Shooting+modifiers-modifiers).
I assume the rules are still being formalized but they did have a sheaf of about 20-30 pages of rules they were reading from. The demo was smooth and it seemed like the system was play-tested fairly well. I was told that this game would play on a 4x4 or up to a 4x6 table. I got a good impression from the demo and felt that this would be a game I could learn in an hour of reading or so.
When I asked about additional units (MAC II, I am looking at you) I was met by a sly look which I would have to take as "yes we know you want all the toys but we refuse to comment openly." I did tell them that It would be cool to introduce Mirya as a Zentradi and RDF character and I asked about vehicles (like the 3 man recon pod in episiode 6?). The response was that we'll see how the kickstarter goes.
I got impressions that there are plans for Masters (southern cross) and Invid invasion but I think they may be expansions to be introduced later. When I asked about dynamic poses for pods (flying) I was assured that it was thought about already and that the plastics will make that possible.
Lastly I have to say thank you to the guys in the demo booth at Adepticon, you guys are passionate about the game. We "talked" robotech back and forth like a couple of gaming nerds from the 80's, it definitely felt nostalgic. Also, hurry up and post the gameplay video you said you would record this morning. (added paragraph breaks, sorry)
I saw this kickstarter just before I went to Adepticon and play-tested the demo they have.
First, they were giving out free battle pods (metal sculpts) at Adepticon.
Second. I will address some of the speculation because I tried to chisel out info about the game release. Please keep in mind these were my impressions.
To answer the weapons question about the gu11. The gun pod can be used in battloid and gerwalk. the only weapon that couldn't be used was the missiles in battloid mode. There is a command point system ( you generate these command points at the beginning of the turn ) that allows you do special actions like "shoulder" hits, fire additional weapons and roll to try and swat incoming missles with your anti-missle defense. In my demo game the Valkyries were powerful but I was "assured" that the "life is cheap" rule was an ability to "respawn" the pods as long as an element of that squad is still on the board and that's how the demo was played out.
I was told this is to simulate the never ending waves of pods descending like in episode 1. Close combat with pods is no joke, I saw a 4 squad stomp Ricks Valkyrie for half its health killing him. Pods move quick: they move 7" with an addition leap of 7". You then figure they have range of 18 for their main gun. You activate by squad back and forth. The game operates on true line of sight with cover rules. The targeting mechanic was a vs system ( the icons I believe were Movement, shooting, armor and pilot ) that is easy to use (sorry for the vagueness but I only played one 15 min game and I didn't take notes since they were doing the to hit calculations Shooting+modifiers-modifiers) I assume the rules are still being formalized but they did have a sheaf of about 20-30 pages of rules they were reading from. The demo was smooth and it seemed like the system was play-tested fairly well.
I was told that this game would play on a 4x4 or up to a 4x6 table. I got a good impression from the demo and felt that this would be a game I could learn in an hour of reading or so. When I asked about additional units (MAC II, I am looking at you) I was met by a sly look which I would have to take as "yes we know you want all the toys but we refuse to comment openly." I did tell them that It would be cool to introduce Mirya as a Zentradi and RDF character and I asked about vehicles (like the 3 man recon pod in episiode 6?). The response was that we'll see how the kickstarter goes.
I got impressions that there are plans for Masters (southern cross) and Invid invasion but I think they may be expansions to be introduced later. When I asked about dynamic poses for pods (flying) I was assured that it was thought about already and that the plastics will make that possible. Lastly I have to say thank you to the guys in the demo booth at Adepticon, you guys are passionate about the game. We "talked" robotech back and forth like a couple of gaming nerds from the 80's, it definitely felt nostalgic. Also, hurry up and post the gameplay video you said you would record this morning.
Wow! Thanks for all the info.
Apparently one of the guys who developed the game is in the area... I'm going to try and find him for a demo!
LONDON, United Kingdom, April 15, 2013 - Games & Gears has announced a custom version of their battle boards which will be bringing Anime Wars table top war gaming battle boards with Ninja Division.
Anime Wars Battle Boards are high quality battle boards that can be used to play any miniature war game on, and will also be compatible with many fantasy and science fiction 28mm/32mm tabletop battle games. More will be announced in the coming weeks and months.
Games & Gears LLP is a producer of innovative high end designs & products for a range of niche and FMCG markets. Products include Games & Gears Gaming Boards, the Pro Studio Line & many other licensed products.
Contact Games & Gears at GamesNGears@aol.com.
Ninja Division combines the skills and experiences of hobby and game industry veterans to bring you the highest quality games experiences. Just who is Ninja Division? We are legion, we are everywhere, and we will always be right behind you.
Spartan-Kun wrote: Y'know, as much as everyone wants new minis to be unveiled, they've already shown most of the mecha from robotech (At least that I can remember). They are missing the M.A.C., zentradi infantry, artillery battlepod, and female power armor. Once (and if) those are all released won't the rest of the stretch goals just increase how many minis you get? All else I can think of are the zentradi dice, and maybe terrain.
From what I can think of:
MAC II
Zentradi soldier
Artillery battlepod
Botoru armor
Cyclops recon craft
Queadlunn-Rau armor
General Breetai
Max's VF-1J vs. Myria's Queadlunn-Rau
Zentradi dice
Decal sheets.
Spartan-Kun wrote: Y'know, as much as everyone wants new minis to be unveiled, they've already shown most of the mecha from robotech (At least that I can remember). They are missing the M.A.C., zentradi infantry, artillery battlepod, and female power armor. Once (and if) those are all released won't the rest of the stretch goals just increase how many minis you get? All else I can think of are the zentradi dice, and maybe terrain.
Without looking here's what I can think of:
MAC II Destroid Monster (I see I'm not the only fan)
Armored Veritech
Super Veritech (with a shoulder gun variant and AWAC variant possible)
Ghost (unmanned drone fighter)
Lancer 1 (space fighter)
Lancer 2 (unmanned space gun drone)
Cats Eye Recon Plane (space AWAC)
Conventional helicopters, tanks, planes, fighters, APCs, infantry with heavy lasers or missile launchers
Max Sterling VT
Miriya VT
Ben Dixon VT (Doubt this one, I don't even think he had a custom VT and besides who cares)
Max, Miriya, Rick Super VTs
Light Missile Battle Pod
Heavy Missile Battle Pod
Male Power Armor
Female Power Armor
Zentrati Infantry
Zentrati Recon Ship (which would be bigger than a Destroid Monster so let's call that a maybe)
Khyron Officer Battlepod
Miriya Female Power Armor
Breetai (does he ever use a mech?)
Dolza
So I'd say they have something like 20 more likely characters/mechs they can put out before we can even see the bottom of the barrel.
Oh yeah, Breetai could work, give him a whole bunch of command buffs and hide him out of sight somewhere. But it would still be... a bit out of character.
Maybe they could do a Cats Eye with Lisa Hayes as a variant? Again more command buffs. Heck then do an AWAC with Adm Gloval and the bridge bunnies
Jack Archer from Robotech: Battlecry, would be cool a cool character, also don't forget the VF-1R triple head laser or the VF-1D trainer, not super special but cool options.
Automatically Appended Next Post: There was also a few battles Khyron used a Male Power Armor
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Oh yeah, Breetai could work, give him a whole bunch of command buffs and hide him out of sight somewhere. But it would still be... a bit out of character.
Maybe they could do a Cats Eye with Lisa Hayes as a variant? Again more command buffs. Heck then do an AWAC with Adm Gloval and the bridge bunnies
Well it's been a long time since I read the books, but I seam to remember Breetai piloting a mech when they held off the invid long enough to originally launch the SDF-1, in fact that was the battle where he lost half his face if I remember...but like I said it's been ages since I read them. I also seem to remember him piloting something in the sentenals....but again it's been ages since I read them.
The combat mechanic will be interesting, from the books and tv show the battle pods and the valks were pretty evenly matched, except those piloted by heros of course. Here it sounds like the pods are total fodder even against basic valks.
The batleloids will be interesting too. They really didn't stand a chance in the show, but in the palladium game they were actually much better.
Cypher-xv wrote: When they do finally get to invid war will the game have to rescale to make bigger models of the cyclone armour?
I believe the idea is to keep everything between the three series to at least roughly the same scale. I could see 'fudging' some of the smaller figures up a little here and there, so that Alphas aren't almost literally half the size of the original fighters, but with the smaller units like Cyclones they could be in a cluster/squad all on the same base, as it appears the Fighters might be already.
dienekes96 wrote: I still treasure my junior high readings of the "Jack McKinney" (James Luceno and Brian Daley) novels. I probably enjoyed those more than the cartoon, but the cartoon provided the visuals to go with the story. There is some gold in those hills, story-wise.
You and me both, man. As far as enjoyable fluff sci-fi goes, I've plowed through the Robotech novels more times than I can count over the last, well, two decades or so. Been ages since my last full read through of the series, but they're all sitting on my shelf as we speak.
Used to have to travel a lot, and having at least the first 6 books (which came as 2 compilations of 3 each when I got them) was pretty commonplace when I was packing.
Also I believe the RPG says all Zentraedi fleet ships have reflex cannons (and split down the middle) when in fact only the Monitors could (which I believe the RPG totally leaves out, even though they are clearly seen in Force of Arms... when they open up and bombard the Earth)
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Oh yeah, Breetai could work, give him a whole bunch of command buffs and hide him out of sight somewhere. But it would still be... a bit out of character.
Maybe they could do a Cats Eye with Lisa Hayes as a variant? Again more command buffs. Heck then do an AWAC with Adm Gloval and the bridge bunnies
Well it's been a long time since I read the books,
The books are not canon so I wouldn't expect to see anything made from then. The Robotech Movie is not even canon, but it's probably more canon than the books at this point
Also I believe the RPG says all Zentraedi fleet ships have reflex cannons (and split down the middle) when in fact only the Monitors could (which I believe the RPG totally leaves out, even though they are clearly seen in Force of Arms... when they open up and bombard the Earth)
But...
It is Robotech RPGTactics...being helped along (to whatever extent) by Palladium...who totally invented the Lancer 1...
I would feel fairly confident basing what shows up to a large extent on what is in their RPG books as opposed to what showed up at which point and was named what in the movies. They may be going back and correcting things, though I would guess in order to maintain consistency with the existing products, they probably won't unless it is something to be added - not subtracted from them.
I was about to post what Sean did, this is a minis game based on the slightly differentuniverse that is the RPG, so absolutely you should expect stuff from the RPG in here even if it isn't "canon"
Personally, I'm hoping for more generics and less characters. I like the characters from the shows, but have little desire to play as rick or max on the battlefield. Kyron was cool, but I'd like to see some other Zentraedi commanders take center stage. It's one of the things I liked most about the Robotech video games and side comics, they were telling new stories for new characters. The zentraedi armada is millions of ships strong, and who knows how many of thousands strong for the RDF/UEDF, lets see more emphasis on them!
Those Destroids will work nicely for those wanting Unseen for BT.
Those aren't the offical Ninja Division models, those were prototypes I did almost two years ago. (and ones I gave to Lathan of Burn In Designs)
I had a chance to talk with the Ninja Division guys at Adepticon and compare models, (the guys at ND are great, but Palladium is a bunch of nobs) my earlier versions are slightly taller by about a head. So the offical stuff will be pretty spot on with the old Battletech metal versions. Interestingly both versions of the Zentraedi pods were pretty much the same height with only about a milimeter in size differance.
Here's a shot of my Tomahawk prototype, the Ninja Division Tomahawk would be the same size as the metal model on the left. The one on the right is the same model that's posed along side the clan mechs in Lathan's pics. The ND model detail is very comperable although their weapons are slightly more slender, I'd intentionally oversized my barrels to help with viewing things at table distance. I think they'd done a great job with their models and hope they do well. As much as I love their work if it means Palladium making any money off of the game I can't stomach supporting it. I'll gladly buy any of their other stuff not related to Palladium.
LONDON, United Kingdom, April 15, 2013 - Games & Gears has announced a custom version of their battle boards which will be bringing Anime Wars table top war gaming battle boards with Ninja Division.
Anime Wars Battle Boards are high quality battle boards that can be used to play any miniature war game on, and will also be compatible with many fantasy and science fiction 28mm/32mm tabletop battle games. More will be announced in the coming weeks and months.
Games & Gears LLP is a producer of innovative high end designs & products for a range of niche and FMCG markets. Products include Games & Gears Gaming Boards, the Pro Studio Line & many other licensed products.
Contact Games & Gears at GamesNGears@aol.com.
Ninja Division combines the skills and experiences of hobby and game industry veterans to bring you the highest quality games experiences. Just who is Ninja Division? We are legion, we are everywhere, and we will always be right behind you.
This sounds VERY interesting - any pics/renders/sketches?
@Alpharius if they don't release any models, you can always use Mirco Armor pieces to represent modern units and then make some fan based rules for them. But there is artwork of a few different units, here's an unofficial website that shows off some of those units.
@Alpharius They haven't said anything about it, and while there were Search and Rescue helicopters in the series, mechs pretty much replaced most aircraft and armour by the time the war begins. Destroids ARE the tanks of the Robotech universe, for the most part.
Well, until you get to the Hovertank veritechs, but that'll be another campaign/expansion/however it works.
It's run by Lathan he's got a lot of cool stuff he was showing off at Adepticon, 28mm scale sci fi, 6mm scale (btech & robotech) and even some old west terrain blazing saddles themed to boot.
Sean_OBrien wrote: It is Robotech RPGTactics...being helped along (to whatever extent) by Palladium...who totally invented the Lancer 1...
I would feel fairly confident basing what shows up to a large extent on what is in their RPG books as opposed to what showed up at which point and was named what in the movies. They may be going back and correcting things, though I would guess in order to maintain consistency with the existing products, they probably won't unless it is something to be added - not subtracted from them.
Maybe. They ARE using the non-RPG names for the mecha, however (which is currently causing lots of confusion from people who only have access to the RPG). I'm hoping Ninja Division is just going to town on the license and only putting up with Palladium because they have to.
Even the RPG is returning to japanese names and specifically dumping the ones originally used in the RPG. RDF is largely replaced with UEDF... Veritech dumped for Valkyrie... etc. They're standardizing the nomenclature due to a mandate from Harmony Gold who were apparently very hands off the first time during the 80's success of Robotech; they were likely too busy to pay attention due to swimming continuous laps through the Robotech money vault ala Scrooge McDuck.
Any chance of troop, tanks and other fighting vehicles making it into this game, or is it Mech on Mech crime only?
In the anime they have a lot of well designed conventional planes, helicopters etc but they're mostly there to die screaming before the mecha show up. Even the destroids really don't get much screen time, I'm not even sure they're named on screen. But some of the designs are neat.
It's a lot like Star Wars, they threw in all kinds of background elements without mentioning them and then later books, toys etc fleshed them out. It's really one of the strengths of the show. I mean both the Zentrati and Earth forces have dedicated electronic warfare platforms! Who the heck sits down and worries about the 60' tall aliens' electronic warfare capability?
Speaking of electonic warfare, command and control, here's an idea for a sprue
A Cats' Eye Recon
And then as many Ghost drones as they can fit.
It would have a neat game mechanic in that the lightly armored, weaponless AWAC controls the nasty drones. If the Cats Eye is lost the drones either die or lose a lot of effectiveness.
Not as sexy as the Destroid Monster but still a pretty interesting addition.
Similarly a sprue of cannon fodder tanks, APCs, troops would be good for scenarios or for players who want to try a truely hopeless battle against alien invaders.
A bit of a grump with these guys.
They were ALWAYS late with release because Kevin Siembieda always needs to fiddle near the end no matter how well electronically stitched together.
He still likes the photocopy/cut/paste method of editing so results may vary in the rule books.
Lucky guys to have the Robotech license, really hope they pull through in the models actually looking like what was rendered.
I really hope K_K's idea of having a Cat's Eye with Lisa Hayes gets into the game. The mini-arc about being captured by the Zentraedi is one of my favorites.
I dunno. The $280k goal is pretty boss so I would say the news has yet to trickle out to fans who are not paying close attention to one or both of Robotech or war gaming.
Is it due to unimaginative or lackluster stretch goals?
Or is the Robotech Nostalgia Factor equal roughly $275K?
Not that $20K a day for the time being is a bad thing!
The past couple of goals have actually been quite good unlike the bit of a stinker that custom dice upgrades were (especially when the intro video posted on day 1 showed custom dice to begin with). I personally haven't added stuff since day one because I'm not a destroid fan and that is the only truly new add-on they've done. The only destroid I'm interested in seems to be coming up next so I'll be likely upping my pledge by that amount if the MACII is confirmed later today.
Even crazier, they added a $150 add on package that gives you the 'Daedalus Attack' package of Destroids. 8 Tomahawks and 3 Monsters for use in your capital ship destroying fun.
CIsaac wrote: Even crazier, they added a $150 add on package that gives you the 'Daedalus Attack' package of Destroids. 8 Tomahawks and 3 Monsters for use in your capital ship destroying fun.
If the destroids came half and half I would be even more interested. Need more Spartans and Phalanx.
Regarding the campaign, I've been pretty happy with the goals passing at a steady pace of 1 per day, and $20k/per day isn't a bad rate to be gaining at over a month long campaign. That plus the expected burst of funding in the last few days as people commit to add ons they'd been wavering on (as many KS's seem to get), I could see this settling at a very tidy sum indeed.
Definitely can't justify the Daedalus pack, but I could see myself snagging an add on pack or two to pick up some Destroids and balance out the Zentraedi options a bit. Trying to remain patient and see what is actually in the Blitzkrieg/Battlecry box at the end, where it needs a bit of shoring up.
Edit: that said, they've done over 3k in the last 40 minutes. I guess the MAC II really was a draw for a good number of people.
Well, they finally got me to increase my initial pledge as I did want a single MAC II for scenarios and such with his escort of two Tomahawks from the core set. That should satisfy the destroid itch for me personally. The only stuff I'm keen on getting now are:
Female Power Armor Zentraedi Armored Infantry Regult Artillery/Missle Bits Armored Veritech Bits Super Veritech Bits
I suspect the last three won't be full models but rather upgrade sprues and hopefully freebie stretch goals. The first two though I expect to be paid add-ons.
If they come out with special character Zentraedi, I might be tempted by those as well but they'd have to be substantially different from the "normal" versions. aka if Khyron came out, I'd expect a Glaug with the cockpit open and the pilot Khryon visible instead of just a Glaug in a different pose.
In the meantime, I was surprised at the size of the next stretch goal as they've been going at a steady 20k per day clip amounting to a stretch each day but that is a retraction from the earlier 25-35k ones they had going during the initial rush. I didn't expect the 20k stretches to continue forever but this is quite a jump (albeit one involving a model that lots of people were clamoring for). If those people end up putting their wallets where their keyboards were, it'll be interesting to see what the next stretch range will be. I don't expect a return to 20k but I hope it'll be back to 25 or 30k max.
As a final update mainly aimed towards international pledgers, they did also add another tier that gives you 4x core sets at the early bird price. I say it's aimed mainly at the international crowd simply because it allows bidders to band together and save on shipping as well if one person places the order for a group of friends.
Wow! We are blowing through the stretch goals. Every pledge of Battle Cry, Gloval's Report, and 2x Showdown will receive a BONUS Glaug Officer's Battlepod and a BONUS Reconnaissance Battlepod!
$325,000 Stretch Goal
Mk.II MONSTER
A big stretch goal deserves a big model, and there are few bigger than the UEDF Mk.II Monster. Once we reach $325,000 the Monster will become a reality!
The Mk.II Monster is available as an optional Purchase Add-on for $40.
DAEDALUS ATTACK ADD-ON
Love Destroids? Love MONSTERS? Have you always wanted to punch through a Zentraedi Battleship and unleash wholesale destruction? Of course you have! The Daedalus Attack Add-on is for anyone who wants to recreate this seminal moment from the anime on the battlefield.
The Daedalus Attack Add-on includes 3x Mk.II Monsters, and 8x Destroids that can be built as Tomahawks or Defenders. We're sure that all of you mathematicians have already noticed that you get an extra discount thrown in on top of all the mecha goodness!
We're pretty sure this massive game piece is going to be hugely popular, so we're looking to blow through the stretch goal in record time!
RECKLESS PLEDGE
You asked for it, so we're making it! The front page will feature the Reckless Pledge level. Featuring 4x Battle Cry contents for $520. That's one big battle! The pledge will be going live tonight. You can use the blue "Manage My Pledge" button to upgrade to Reckless
I don't think I'll be adding it to my pledge, if I stay in.
75k? I think you mean 45k if you're talking about the current stretch gap. I do think though that the price on the MAC despite the size is a bit aggreesive simply because they know its a wanted item. Without seeing the full render next to other model renders its hard to say but my gut tells me that $30 for a single large model is more fair than $40 given that regular destroids are $5 and the next biggest model (the glaug) is now effectively a bit over $15 due to the added recon pod.
It'd be nice if they would take a shot of some minis, or just put all the renders together with some sort of ruler to say "This is how big they are".It'd certainlybe helpful.
Spartan-Kun wrote: It'd be nice if they would take a shot of some minis, or just put all the renders together with some sort of ruler to say "This is how big they are".It'd certainlybe helpful.
It's not next to a ruler nor does it include the MAC II as it came out a few days ago but they did at least put the renders together in the same pic to judge the relative sizes. It's a half effort no doubt but it's something.
I don't mind the add-on options at occasional levels, especially for huge kits like the MAC II. The KS cranked some nice freebies through the 200K, with more to come. They got to make some extra money in there as well. It can't all be a bonus for the Battlecry level. I'm not a huge MAC fan, but I may get one for the battle board. I'm waiting for the Super and Armored Valkyries and the Power Armors. I'm enjoying the toys as they come. A few more freebies will be nice, but I'll pay a little freight as well.
That, and the community has responded with around 10k since the reveal, in a mere 3 hours or so. It's not absurd money, but for a campaign that had been settling into a nice cozy 1k/hour or so, it was a noticeable jump.
I was expecting the unlock on Wed afternoon or evening, but perhaps we'll it tomorrow if this proves to have some staying power, and enough people/shops(?) get involved on that upper tier to save on S&H. Taking the price down from 155/box to 142 is a pretty decent chunk of change. That's domestic prices with international shipping for a song in comparison to most KS campaigns, at least for the ones I've seen so far.
I'm not naive enough to think that this hasn't been a bit aggressively priced in response to the clamor for this model, but at the same time I do hope that it's also at least a little based on the costs behind designing and producing something that's purported to be around 50% bigger than most of the others (supposedly the MAC II is 3 1/8", most of the others are in the 2" range? Or so I recall).
I do hope they go back to 20-25k'ish stretches though, as steadily hitting them seems to keep momentum going nicely. Y'know, as opposed to the Malifaux RPGKS (Through the Breach) that got stuck on a couple during its apparently way too long (45 days) campaign and actually saw significant drops in funding over time, possibly at least in part due to that, among other issues.
That all said, with 4 weeks and hopefully hundreds of thousands of dollars to go, I remain hopeful that we'll begin to see at least some more boosts to the base box. Perhaps they're just spacing out some box upgrades, some add ons for purchase, and then as the add on selection gets high enough that most people will simply redirect their funding towards other boxes they want, they can beef up the base boxes a bit as well.
I mean, I'm not turning my nose up at the boosts so far, like the extra battlepods, veritechs and whatnot, but I'd really like to see things like the other two Destroids make it in, perhaps some Zentraedi fighters, round out what both factions can do without needing to go straight to add ons, much as a part of their business model as that might be.
Personally, I'm not sure I can justify $80 (fighters, destroids and a Monster) over the tier I'm at, but I could totally earmark the $40 I may be able to throw at some fighters and destroids if those were in box.
Perhaps I'm expecting too much, but I guess we'll find out in the coming weeks. I'll say this much, compared to the Through the Breach KS, it's nice to watch one grow steadily, get regular, clear feedback, and at least make efforts to apparently give people what they want. I'd say the box is a pretty solid deal as is, and hopefully a dozen+ stretch goals from now, I'm sure that'll only be more true and noticeable.
warboss wrote: 75k? I think you mean 45k if you're talking about the current stretch gap. I do think though that the price on the MAC despite the size is a bit aggreesive simply because they know its a wanted item. Without seeing the full render next to other model renders its hard to say but my gut tells me that $30 for a single large model is more fair than $40 given that regular destroids are $5 and the next biggest model (the glaug) is now effectively a bit over $15 due to the added recon pod.
I think $40 is about right when you consider that Iron wind charges $39.95 for THIS. I think the MAC@ will at least be as big if not bigger and well... in plastic. I was not a fan of putting a pair of those together recently. They are heavy as hell and unstable. I had to mount them on dreadnaught bases just so they wouldnt tip over and break apart. here's a pic of them on the bases just for scale purposes.
Considering that KK posted the larger 1/200 plastic model for half that price, probably not. If you were to put a 40k rhino next to that image, then it's a steal. It all depends on your perspective. There is also a low res gameplay video posted as well on the kickstarter. It seems like they're going for quick and simple compared with 40k and Heavy Gear but not quite to the level of X-wing. You compare two stats for an attack and the difference is what you need to roll on a D6 to hit with some occasional modifiers.
I hope the next few stretches buff up the Zentraedi side as well. Seems like a natural progression once the Destroids are filled out.
Something like 350/375 for the Power armour, 400+ for some of the mech upgrades (bits and/or full models) like the Super/Armoured veritech and the light/heavy artillery battlepods.
Edit: and start filling in some other fun stuff, like Rick's plane, a Cats Eye Recon plane, and more functional stuff like Zentraedi foot soldiers.
Honestly, I hope they don't keep the high stretch goals just yet. Going back to 20k is unrealistic but 30k feels about right. 10% of the current total as the next goal seems like a good idea IMO.
Fluff-wise? It's so awesome, I struggle to imagine how it will be used in the game. I imagine having one or more on one end of a 6x4 table will put a lot of pressure on your opponent to close quickly.
K_K posted a thread about them right before this KS went up. Check out his vids:
The HWR 'Monster' artillery destroid is the largest weapon system ever fielded by the United Earth Defence Forces. Designed to field the largest caliber of artillery on a mobile platform, the Monster can, for a few seconds, outshoot an old World War II battleship.
Kickstarter-profile-pic-20130412.small
Creator Palladium Books about 1 hour ago
@Adam
We have already provided many bonuses, and at the pace we're going there are sure to be more! The Monster is a HUGE game piece. While we don't have the MSRP of it nailed down yet, the Add-on price is definitely lower and an exceptional deal when compared to similar products.
It's a quad-linked basilisk dreadnought hybrid reminiscent of 3rd edition 40k VDR nightmares that can kick other mechs in the head just by walking. How is it specifically in this game? No idea. I'm buying it because it makes a nice showpiece/objective for themed games.
The mac is pretty immobile, takes some time to reload and has little defense on its own, almost zero melee ability and is a giant target. It must be well defended or it will get destroyed. I think Kyron too one out in the book singlehandedly after watching it wreckface on his detachment. The flying mac, I have no idea about.
If it wasn't completely ridiculous to even consider, how cool would be to have an SDF-1 for this game? It could be a battlefield with built-in scenario objectives to protect/destroy
They're also a bit more modern in styling with some 90's aesthetics in case the 80's look of an F-14 doesn't interest you. Both pics are unofficial IIRC and they might be off somewhat in scale but they give you the general gist of the size of the next likely release. The smallest one in the pic below is in the bottom center of the above pic. There's a lot more variety in size/power in the later series and not just giant stompy robots/aliens.
Alpharius wrote: I'll soldier on - with a lot of help from the fans here on Dakka, please!
I'd recommend watching Robotech. The whole series is available for free on YT thanks to Manga Entertainment. It's also available through NetFlix. The show was remarkably sophisticated for its time and I think it holds up pretty well. I feel compelled to add something like "if you can forgive its silliness" but for me it needs no forgiveness. What some might call the sillier (e.g., space tuna) elements just work for me.
warboss wrote: I don't "get" the 90's version of nostalgia.
TBH, I don't "get" a lot of 80s nostalgia, either. I like modern incarnations of stuff like TMNT on its own merits. Watching old episodes of that or Transformers -- it's just noise to me. Give me something like Fall of Cybertron! But with Robotech ... watching the shows as an adult is much more rewarding than as a tyke.
As a side note, it seems the opening up of a 4x pledge option (or perhaps some early people just bowed out and didn't like what they saw) has also opened up some early bird pledges at $70. If you're iffy to begin with and just want to get your feet wet, there are two pledges for just the core set at $10 off available as I type this.
I suspect there might be some early birds becoming available now and then. There were 2 of the lower ones available a moment ago.
As people spread the word, I think we'll see some of the Blitzkrieg folks bump up to Showdown (I might be doing just this at some point, since a friend wants in after seeing that Gameplay video, and internationally that tier actually saves us $5 each), which might entice people at the base game tier to jump up to there. Basically, I could see people leap frogging upwards over time.
Hell, if our third friend who was interested wants a box, we might have to go all the way up to the 4 pack and find someone else to join in (or just try to ebay/craigslist the 4th to recoup some costs).
I'm glad someone else saw them available. If you bump up to the next tier, post in the thread a few minutes before to give dakkites a bit of a head start on getting your soon to be opened slot.
I'm hoping after we get the MkII the next stretch will be a freebie, preferably more battlepods. A lot for people should be upping to Showdown cause you get a lot of models for $260.
Between the card images and the gameplay vid, it looks like a standard cluster of pods is 6 figures. The Battlecry tier currently gives 21 of them, which is kind of a weird number, unless they figure the extra 3 will account for people wanting different poses, paint schemes or backups in case some get damaged.
I think it's far more likely an indicator that they simply intend to set another stretch that includes bumping that tier up to 24 of them, and 4 clusters of battlepods seems pretty decent unless you start getting into the simply massive war sized games (which I know some people do).
But honestly, I am kind of hoping we see more of the add on only figures beginning to make their way into the boxes (basic and bonus laden). Sure, buff up the 'grunt/workhorse' pieces, but a few more destroids, adding the Spartan/Phalanx to the base game, some Zentraedi Fighters, etc, would all be appreciated.
And I suspect that will happen eventually, possibly in a leapfrog method, where they use the 'new' figures to draw people into higher bids/tiers, then slowly tuck them into the box as more figures are released to make them the hot new thing that keeps those add on totals up. Like, once the Male/Female Power Armour become available, perhaps tuck a Spartan and Phalanx into the base box, to round out the set. Then when the next big ticket add on comes out, begin to add male/female power armour to the box, etc, etc.
When I was young (born in '93 so I was about 5 at the time). My dad got me to watch Robotech, it wasn't even in english. I had to watch in Japanese and have him read me the subtitles (I was little, couldn't read fast enough). I love Robotech, it is my gateway anime. Hence why I'm dropping as much cash on this as a can.
Now let me step off my soap box, I'm curious to hear how other people got into likeing Robotech.
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Forar wrote: Between the card images and the gameplay vid, it looks like a standard cluster of pods is 6 figures. The Battlecry tier currently gives 21 of them, which is kind of a weird number, unless they figure the extra 3 will account for people wanting different poses, paint schemes or backups in case some get damaged.
I think it's far more likely an indicator that they simply intend to set another stretch that includes bumping that tier up to 24 of them, and 4 clusters of battlepods seems pretty decent unless you start getting into the simply massive war sized games (which I know some people do).
But honestly, I am kind of hoping we see more of the add on only figures beginning to make their way into the boxes (basic and bonus laden). Sure, buff up the 'grunt/workhorse' pieces, but a few more destroids, adding the Spartan/Phalanx to the base game, some Zentraedi Fighters, etc, would all be appreciated.
And I suspect that will happen eventually, possibly in a leapfrog method, where they use the 'new' figures to draw people into higher bids/tiers, then slowly tuck them into the box as more figures are released to make them the hot new thing that keeps those add on totals up. Like, once the Male/Female Power Armour become available, perhaps tuck a Spartan and Phalanx into the base box, to round out the set. Then when the next big ticket add on comes out, begin to add male/female power armour to the box, etc, etc.
That would be great, I was actually thinking about that while I was at work last night. I like the workhorse figures though. Give me a ton of Veritechs and Pods and I'll be happy. Only reason I want destroids is cause my dad loves em.
I watched it when it was aired on TV in Canada back when I was 6.
They say children don't fully understand the concept of death until around 7, but *a character who shall not be named because we have people watching for the first time now* dying hit me hard.
Loved the series and watched when I could, but this was over a quarter century ago, so I was at the whim of what happened to be on and tv guide. In my early teen years I found the novelizations, which I picked up whenever I could and sincerely enjoy to this day.
Aside from lusting after some of the toys that are priced far beyond what I'm willing to pay, and mostly enjoying the Battlecry game on the Gamecube (some levels were pretty unforgiving, I don't think I ever actually finished it) and snagging some of the Palladium RPG books, I haven't really picked up much of it over the years.
But this campaign is definitely looking like an interesting game on top of the massive nostalgia value that is admittedly present as well.
Forar wrote: Between the card images and the gameplay vid, it looks like a standard cluster of pods is 6 figures. The Battlecry tier currently gives 21 of them, which is kind of a weird number, unless they figure the extra 3 will account for people wanting different poses, paint schemes or backups in case some get damaged.
I think it's far more likely an indicator that they simply intend to set another stretch that includes bumping that tier up to 24 of them, and 4 clusters of battlepods seems pretty decent unless you start getting into the simply massive war sized games (which I know some people do).
We don't know for sure if command and recon pods will be additions to the 6 regults or upgrades for one of the regults or a combination of both (recon is upgrade, glaug is in addition, etc). As it stands, the current battlecry/blitzkrieg level has at 25 pods by my count (with the two glaugs being upgraded to include another recon regult). Then there are the largely expected artillery pods that will likely come out as upgrade sprues or whole kits themselves (and hopefully some part of them as freebie boosts to the battlecry/blitzkrieg pledge level). I expect we'll have 3 full squadrons of a mix of pods (regular, artillery, recon) plus some command glaugs by time the KS is done.
Forar wrote: I watched it when it was aired on TV in Canada back when I was 6.
They say children don't fully understand the concept of death until around 7, but *a character who shall not be named because we have people watching for the first time now* dying hit me hard.
Loved the series and watched when I could, but this was over a quarter century ago, so I was at the whim of what happened to be on and tv guide. In my early teen years I found the novelizations, which I picked up whenever I could and sincerely enjoy to this day.
Aside from lusting after some of the toys that are priced far beyond what I'm willing to pay, and mostly enjoying the Battlecry game on the Gamecube (some levels were pretty unforgiving, I don't think I ever actually finished it) and snagging some of the Palladium RPG books, I haven't really picked up much of it over the years.
But this campaign is definitely looking like an interesting game on top of the massive nostalgia value that is admittedly present as well.
I cried. I admit it. I bawled like a little baby.
Battlecry is fun, I'm playing it now on xbox. I finished it a looooong time ago and its fun but I figured now is a good time to pick it back up in honor of this kk occasion.
I have about 40 or so of the 1/20,000 scale Zentraedi ships. My buddy and I spent a long time, about 15 years ago, writing rules for tactical outer space combat (including faux-3d and electronic warfare).
I even scratch built some teeny tiny Armor space platforms and was thinking about how to make Monitors and Scouts (ARII only made ships of the Flagship, Command Ship, Carrier, and Destroyer)
I woke up one day for school and stealthily turned on my black and white 12" TV in the bedroom during breakfast. I practically choked on my cereal when I saw transforming robots on a day other than Sunday or during the Bozo show. I got into tabletop games years later in high school when the guy next to me in computer class was reading a robotech RPG book and I recognized the veritech.
I should have clarified - how awesome would it be to see a Starship Battle game based on the Yamato/Star Blazers series that was easily accessible with updated rules and figures and came in an easy to purchase Kickstarter package?!?
Anyone know what this is? It looks decidedly more modern than the macross I'm used to. Is this the movie rerelease from last year that came with the PS3 macross game?
Was that in reply to me? The ARII 1/20,000 Zentraedi ships are long out of print. Mine are all in storage right now (though now that I am thinking about it, I'd quite like to break them out and game with them), but this fellow's thread on Macrossworld.com has some examples of the ships, built and painted http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=24398
On topic, I'd really love to see a series-accurate painting guide for the models in the box. I'm really eager to see a decal sheet officially announced, too.
I believe the math on this would scale to something around.... 14.5 feet long, 5.5 feet wide, and 3 feet deep.
There was a post on it somewhere, might have even been in the comments section of the KS.
I got into Robotech when it first appeared on TV as a cartoon in 1985, so that's dates me a bit. Have all the novels, art books, etc..... I've been a long time consumer.
Could never get into the RPG, but it did drive me into Battledroids/Battletech in the days of old.
Well, obviously you'd want to make a part of the ship, not the whole thing. It was big enough that in the series there were fights on and around it pretty regularly.
You could do an aircraft carrier, arm joint and some water around it, or part of the hull itself, with or without some 'open space' (with floating debris to act as cover for both sides), etc.
A full SDF-1 would be huge, even at around 0.4% of its size, but a 4x4 hull section could make for a damned fine battlefield if one had the time, resources, skill and dedication to build it.
A full SDF-1 would be about FOUR METERS LONG (which is why it would be totally ridiculous ). The amount of effort to construct one in scale would be so incredible. But could you imagine the results? Make the whole thing in sections and have massive, 1000 mini battles on it!
So I have actively avoided anything macross/robotech/battletech related for years now due to all the IP drama. I hate to see it because Robotech really was my first true obsession and I just cannot stand watching all the legalese stunt the growth of the IP in any of the forms we have seen it take over the years.
I really would love to see this game flourish just to be able to play out some of the epic battles that formed some of my most interesting childhood memories but I am seriously concerned.
I don't know all of the particulars but I just read that in 2005 japanese courts ruled that Tatsunomo (the company that sold harmony gold the rights to macross) did not actually own the IP and that Studio Nue actually holds that claim. Thus Harmony Gold was unlawfully sold the rights.
I feel like we might be seeing the next stage of this drama unfolding with this kickstarter. If it is a financial success it might raise the stakes for Studio Nue to press the case that Harmony Gold does not actually own the rights it claims it does and thus put this whole game in legal limbo in the same fashion as the battletech unseen.
Harmony Gold and Palladium Books have both been known for some rather unsavory business practices in the past. As a fan that really would love nothing more than to see both macross and robotech flourish I am seriously on the fence with this kickstarter. Do any of you folks share the same bittersweet concerns about this IP and the players behind it? I really am concerned this could end up the same way as the Harmony Gold vs Fasa case all over again.
I was under the impression that that was all sorted out finally. I obviously don't know, but would guess that Warner Bros would not have optioned the movie rights if the IP was that much in limbo.
Harmony Gold and Palladium Books have both been known for some rather unsavory business practices in the past. As a fan that really would love nothing more than to see both macross and robotech flourish I am seriously on the fence with this kickstarter. Do any of you folks share the same bittersweet concerns about this IP and the players behind it?
I think if you go through the previous robotech thread in this forum (closed right before this one started up), you'll find people who don't specifically like Harmony Gold and/or Palladium but are still supporting this. I'm happy that a tabletop minis game is finally being made in this universe and my like of Robotech is overriding my dislike of Palladium (largely due to Ninja/Cypher/Soda handling the real work and Palladium relegated to stupid suggestions like adding RPG close combat options to veritechs and mandating all those superscript TM's and the putting of RPG in the minis game name in the hope that they can sponge some RPG sales off this). I won't pretend to understand the details or ramifications of the various lawsuits surrounding Robotech over the past 25 years so won't comment about that part.
Warboss in reply to your query about the video, I believe it is Macross 2012 which I seem to rem,ember was a remastered compilation of the songs from the series.
Back to the game and the gameplay video, I noticed damage was recorded directly onto the unit cards, hope they remember to have a way to copy them either in the rule book or as a downloadable file. It also makes me wonder how you be able to distinguish which model is which in the swarms - albeit it seems they go down easily enough.
It did seem at this early stage that there could be a balance issue not withstanding the endless numbers rule (pods return on a 5/6) I have heard mentioned. Those two destroids took a shedload of fire and were still there, while only "good" dice kept the second pod swarm in play.
Not necessarily. But it's not really worth going into because the information available is incomplete. Suffice it to say, the contours of any legal disputes -- insofar as they impact the American market -- are very likely well known to the parties involved.
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wilycoyote wrote: It also makes me wonder how you be able to distinguish which model is which in the swarms - albeit it seems they go down easily enough.
I think that's why Mr. Cadice put so much emphasis on marking things with dice.
I think wilycoyote's point is more keeping track of "this figure has X damage and this figure has Y", so you don't end up forgetting 4 turns later whether the pod on the front left of the group is the one hanging onto life by a thread, or the one beside it, or the one beside that.
Probably easy enough to just incorporate a small #1-6 on the bases of the battlepods (personally or manufactured that way) just to make sure everything is accounted for.
And yes, the pods are fragile enough they're probably not a great example, as they seem to either be "alive" or "dead" with little in between, but if you fielded a small army of Destroids or something other that took a bit more punishment, it could be a big deal if one forgets which Tomahawk were at half health and which was at one third, etc.
As for the legalities, yeah, I imagine that ND and Palladium and HG have dot'd all their i's and crossed all their t's. Nobody wants to put this much time and effort into a project only to have it fall apart (this will lead to some snark about the Palladium project itself, I'm sure, but let's keep going).
Forar wrote: Probably easy enough to just incorporate a small #1-6 on the bases of the battlepods (personally or manufactured that way) just to make sure everything is accounted for.
I'm sorry to say but these kick starters confuse me. So if I pledge for the "Showdown" level, witch says I get 2 x "BattleCry" and each unlocked thing. Does that mean I will get a MkII Monster for free? Or is that just another add on I would have to pay out extra for?
There is no pledge level that currently gets a Monster "for free." That is, the Monster is (more accurately, will be) an add-on only at this point (again, more accurately, once 325k has been reached).
That means to get what I want of what they are offering right now, I am looking at a pledge of 610 dollars with 27 more days to go, so who knows what's on the agenda for other unlocks and add on's. I guess I will wait till we get closer to the end to decide then.
Nicorex wrote: I'm sorry to say but these kick starters confuse me. So if I pledge for the "Showdown" level, witch says I get 2 x "BattleCry" and each unlocked thing. Does that mean I will get a MkII Monster for free? Or is that just another add on I would have to pay out extra for?
It includes two of each FREE unlock. I've tried to summarize it in the OP and split the free stuff from paid upgrades.
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Nicorex wrote: That means to get what I want of what they are offering right now, I am looking at a pledge of 610 dollars with 27 more days to go, so who knows what's on the agenda for other unlocks and add on's. I guess I will wait till we get closer to the end to decide then.
or just do the pledge now and cancel if needed at the end. I'd prefer that one as I'd like to get to the next preview sooner rather than later.
The core set comes with 40 cards characterized as "unit cards, etc." Does anyone have a sense of what all those cards could be for? What does that "etc" entail?
Apologize in advance for the long post and walls of text.
Two recent questions or issues worth discussing or answering. I hope the thread doesn't mind me splitting out my thoughts into two separate posts.
I'm probably one of the (quiet) old guard of Dakka. I've been here since 2001, and every post I've made since that year regarding tabletop games has been for Games Workshop. I've long stated that I'm not really a tabletop gamer, but rather a 40k fan. It is the universe and visuals I like. Never had ANY interest in any other games.
In 1986, I was a wee lad in junior high school. My favorite Transformer toy had been Jetfire, because he just seemed so advanced compared to all of the other models (I had no idea why). It probably began for me in 6th grade or so. In a one year period, I discovered the Robotech cartoon (unfortunately somewhat infrequently), the novels, and the main Palladium rulebook with the awesome Kevin Long artwork. That confluence was very potent for me. I was just aging out of Transformers and GI Joe, so a more serious cartoon was a revelation. Balancing that very dynamic and detailed cartoon with a high school level novelization (minus the visual discrepancies between the three distinct series) with a coherent through story and the right amount of balancing depth was literally a sweet spot. Add to that the RPG, with its technical precision of the Veritechs and the ownership of your own characters and story...it was a big deal for a 11-12 year old.
I got the two Robotech Art books, fascinated by the precision of the official artwork in Book One and intrigued by the interpretive art in the second. i was thrilled for the Sentinels, and crushed when it was canned. I even bought the Palladium release (VHS) of the only three completed episodes. The third Robotech Art and the Palladium game complemented the 5 part novelization of the Sentinels, so I didn't feel gypped. I stayed with the books all the way through The End of the Circle, which hit when I was in high school (and has NO basis in the cartoons). I was probably the perfect age to find and follow the storylines and concepts of Robotech when it hit stateside. I didn't realize how much I liked and missed it until a week ago.
I've never done Kickstarter. I've never been interested in another tabletop game. I passed by Star Wars, Batman, Ravenloft, whatever, you name it, without batting an eye. But when I surfed to the Kickstarter site...I was reminded of how cool and important the series had been for me. I was excited by both the prospect of the game, the models, and the freebies unlocking over the next four weeks. Once they promised Skull One, it was an easy decision to jump in.
It is good to hear that the show is on Netflix. I plan on watching Macross for the first time in 20 years (as soon as I finish The Shield on Amazon Prime).
It was absolutely ahead of its time. I'm not sure that it was a "you had to be there" kind of thing. Maybe those new converts can share what their initial experience watching the (dated, graphically) show is like. When I was 12, the idea of flying an F-14 that transformed into a huge bipedal robot (that could also fly) and had a Gatling gun for a rifle while busting caps in giants was probably the coolest concept in recorded history. It probably still is. And there was even a tale of friendship, love, revenge, and hope with it.
My experience is almost a copy/paste of dienechs post.
One of the blessings of living in NY is all these great odd ball shops including Forbidden Planet back in it's original location. There I got a cool F-14 that turned into a robot, it had awesome skull and crossbones on it and it came with this little Japanese booklet showing other cool robots.
Which of course I could not read.
I can't remember if I saw the Comico comics or the Jack McKinney novels first but they finally told me what that F-14 toy was. The cartoon was on at some obscure time like 6am so I only taped it a few times, the novels and later the RPG were my guide to Robotech.
And yeah... I supported the Dream Forge because I've wanted their stompy robots since 2004. ANd I know I'm just one weak evening from dropping $200 on this.
I'm a bit too young to have seen Robotech on TV, but a friend's older brother was really into it and when we'd play with transformers this friend would do "robotech mode" where he'd half transform them, which I found silly. A few years later when I was in 6/7th I was at a friend's house and noticed he had some robotech novels on his shelf and I was like "hey, I've heard of robotech before" and he was like "really? here, you can have em". They were the first novels I actually read for fun, I LOVED them, even if I had to read them with a dictionary next to me since I didn't know half the words. My local library was AWESOME, very small but a fantastic selection of SF/fantasy paperbacks including the whole series.
I stumbled across a few RPG books that gave me images of all the robotes and characters I was reading about, then the Eternity/Academy comics. I met (and still have) some of my best friends through the freshman games club playing the Robotech and Macross II RPGs in high school. It wasn't until the late 90's that I actually saw my first episode of the show, and by then I'd read the novel for it a half dozen times and the story by heart.
I think it's why it has stuck with me so much over the years, it was SO incredibly formative for me. For me, Robotech was never about the show. it was about the world it created through the show and books and comics and games, a world with enough depth that I was able to throw myself into it completely for most of my teenage life, and it's been kept alive just enough over the years that I've never been able to give it up.
Interesting... I'll have to take a peek at that. I've been making my way through the video I linked and it's definitely interesting. The animation is a lot more modern than the original macross and its great seeing the same scenes with crisp HD details. In addition, there are a few funny parts. Seeing Rick stuff his GU-11 into the recon bubble of a Glaug and blow it up was cool although seeing him fire his GU-11 "gangsta" style sideways was a bit of a surprise. Also, the Zentraedi seem to have been given pointy elf ears in the pachinko animation. All in all it makes me want an HD redone version of Robotech instead of the poorly animated action scene Shadow Chronicles stuff we got.
I'm with warboss. I only watched the intro section of the remaster. Looked awesome. I'd pay to see Macross done in that style.
I'd pay a lot for that.
I just watched Boobytrap on Netflix. Been forever. But it looked decent. Not as dated as I'd thought. Except that 2009 isn't 25 years into the future, but rather four years ago. When Transformers 2 eye-raped me. Oh well.
I first saw Robotech when I was in the first grade on WGN it came on before Captain Harlock(I think that the name), I would catch episodes here and there but I had it all confused back then I thought the characters from Macross transferred to some of the other series and such, I remember person when he who shall not be named died, but never got to see it all. When I was older and starting playing some D&D with my friends I came across Palladium by accident and picked up Invid Invasion from them, later I managed to get most of the Robotech books from Used book stores, and the Robotech novels as well, I came across the first three at a Goodwill for like a dollar a piece. Loved the background, collected all the novels and I even started figuring out there was some things that didn't click right between the novels and RPGs, I was totally lost when I got Macross DYRL and Macross Plus. I love both arcs, I think Robotech story is compelling but each has its merits on its own. Even the Masters grew on me after a while, but after I joined the Army, I grew tried of Palladium and built my own d20 system for Robotech to play with my friends, finished most of Macross and started the Masters, before life derailed that, but its all fond memories.
I was even trying to sell my wife on Robotech and Macross, but she hates the 80s look and older animation in Robotech, and most of the newer Macross I have are only Sub and she doesn't enjoy watching them because she feels she misses the action while reading. The only plus is she likes the miniatures she sees, and seeing that I already have her Mother's Day gift covered, I have been given a budget for this.
That said what saga does everyone like the best? I am actually going with the Masters, it grew on me over time wasn't my favorite at first, but I like the Veritechs and I think it did a good job portraying the Robotech Masters as very powerful but on the verge of collapse. But each saga has its compelling elements.
I could hold out no longer. Cha-ching, funded. First kickstarter for me. Reading all these stories about people finding Robotech is pretty much exactly how I came across it too. Blew my young mind way back when, and I never let it go. Still have the collection of books that have a place of honor on my bookshelf, and a giant load of toys scavenged from a few trips to Hong Kong, but this game is basically what I've been wanting since I was stealing Legos and spending time in 'the office' for being a little turd.
Yeah, I'll be very surprised if that's not the Zentraedi dice upgrade.
Which is fine by me. Back to a shorter stretch goal again, figuring we'll probably hit 325 in the next few hours, hopefully we can tag that one by the evening tomorrow, and along with a glimpse of 365 or whatever the next target is, keep that momentum rolling.
Personally, I'd kind of like to see something reasonable (380 for something small'ish?) and then another 'big ticket' drop at 400k, not necessarily in terms of size, but something the fans are howling for. Get those Power Armour and Artillery pods set up, balance out the available models for the factions between 400 and 500 or so, and weave in some upgrades to the add ons (more figures per purchase, as they've done with the first Destroid pack) and perhaps some upgrades into the Bonus and Core tier boxes.
Include those characters and special figures and wrap this one up in a giant pile of cash and nostalgia.
...And I wouldn't mind a few Zentradai on foot either.
----
As for my introduction to Robotech, I happened to catch it on TV, right from boobytrap. When Rick flew the fighter through the clouds and the sky lit up with explosions, I stood in front of the TV in shock and awe. Back in that day, I'd never seen animation that rich and detailed. Heck, when I realized that the guys in the veritechs weren't bailing out when their ships got blown up, I knew this was going to be a much more serious cartoon than the stuff I'd been watching. Then you-know-who dies and I couldn't believe they were showing someone's death in a cartoon. I missed most of the Southern Cross (and was never much impressed with it when I later finally sat through it), but picked it up again with the Invid Invasion and it blew me away once more. I was lucky I was right in the heart of what you might call Robotech Central. There was always a blush of robotech toys at the newly opened Toys-R-Us, and I still have the matchbox Robotech Defenders from those days (though I've long had to superglue my Excalibur/Tomahawk's guns in place).
I so wish they'd been able to do the Sentinel series, but the flames had long fanned. Maybe they'll get to a kickstarter for those mechs (after the invid, of course - I want my Alpha/Beta mini).
Has anyone else heard about this Robotech Love Live Alive? I came across it by chance, but this a youtube video that explains it a bit and has some questions and answers.
Harmony Gold and Palladium Books have both been known for some rather unsavory business practices in the past. As a fan that really would love nothing more than to see both macross and robotech flourish I am seriously on the fence with this kickstarter. Do any of you folks share the same bittersweet concerns about this IP and the players behind it?
I think if you go through the previous robotech thread in this forum (closed right before this one started up), you'll find people who don't specifically like Harmony Gold and/or Palladium but are still supporting this. I'm happy that a tabletop minis game is finally being made in this universe and my like of Robotech is overriding my dislike of Palladium (largely due to Ninja/Cypher/Soda handling the real work and Palladium relegated to stupid suggestions like adding RPG close combat options to veritechs and mandating all those superscript TM's and the putting of RPG in the minis game name in the hope that they can sponge some RPG sales off this). I won't pretend to understand the details or ramifications of the various lawsuits surrounding Robotech over the past 25 years so won't comment about that part.
I guess my question would be, who will be getting the money? Even if Ninja/Cypher/Soda are doing all the work, Palladium's name is on the Kickstarter. That likely means the cash is passing through Kevin Siembieda hands first. We may find he has sticky fingers.
So I've never done a kk before, and I want to pledge but I don't have enough money right now but I want to help get to 325k. If I pledge now will it try to get the money off my card now or on the 20th?
At the end of the KS, within a day or so of the 20th, is when your card will be charged.
Although I am a Robotech fan myself, and am glad this has succeeded, I am finding myself low on funds even then, so I'm only going in for the 2 KS only 'named' veritechs at the moment. I'll have to wait and pay full retail on the MAC II and the other stuff I would otherwise have got on this.
I think if things good really well we might see some of the UEDF aircraft, spacecraft and helicopters, but in this era infantry, IFVs and MBTs will probably have to be bought through mirco armor. But I would love to have rules for them, be fun to have M1s and T-80s fighting battlepods holding out for the Valkyries to arrive.
UN Test Pilot wrote: I think if things good really well we might see some of the UEDF aircraft, spacecraft and helicopters, but in this era infantry, IFVs and MBTs will probably have to be bought through mirco armor. But I would love to have rules for them, be fun to have M1s and T-80s fighting battlepods holding out for the Valkyries to arrive.
Some Marine Corps armor waiting for support, that'd be fun. M1's are tough I think they'd take at least some pods with them.
Yeah an M1A1/A2's 120mm should be able to destroy a Pod pretty easy and their armor can take a beating, but the pods would have numbers and be able to out manuver them. Would make for some fun set ups.
The biggest probelm most conventional vehicles would have, is no anti-missile systems, low defense scores, larger crews so higher loss of personnel, and other then MBTs most other units would have light to moderate armor. But they would put up a fight, just take it easy on them and don't use Female Power Armors.
We have flares, so that would allow some aircraft to avoid missles. But your right, loss of life would be huge and our infantry wouldn't be able to do anything unless the zentradi are on foot but even we'd need AT weapons to kill them.
Would still be fun to make some rules for it though, I would think advanced MBT like the
M1A2, Challebger 2, Leopard 2A5 and such would be Movement 5, Gunnery 3, Defense 3 or 4, Piloting 3, 14 boxes of damage or so, a 120mm, a .50 Cal MG, 2x 7.62mm MG.
A-10 movement 10, Gunnery 2, Defense 5, Piloting 2 10 damage boxes, a 30mm gatling cannon, and Maverick missiles or bombs (have to do some research on this not surehow many it carries, but it can only fire one missile at a time I believe.
Sounds pretty fair, though I think the gunnery of the tanks should be 4 or 5 because they do have some sophisticated targeting aids. I'd just wanna the the A-10's gun, the gun the plane was built around lol.
(Someone took that 30mm and said "Can we make this fly?")
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Alpharius: They should show what's after the dice, so that people can overlook the dice if they aren't that excited over them.
I thought about giving them a higher number because of Commander Intergrated Thermal Viewers and the newer ones having x50 sights, but I would imagine some of the UEDF mech would incorporate the same stuff, but maybe a 4 because of the additonal crew members?
Sorry, was just passing the time till my staff duty ended, I am off to bed, anyone who would be interested in discussing vehicle stats feel free to PM me.
I guess my question would be, who will be getting the money? Even if Ninja/Cypher/Soda are doing all the work, Palladium's name is on the Kickstarter. That likely means the cash is passing through Kevin Siembieda hands first. We may find he has sticky fingers.
That thought is keeping me out of this.
Palladium does seem to be handling the funding as the KS is in their name unfortuantely but they are the ones who licensed Robotech and then contracted out to Ninja/Cypher/Soda. I don't think there would have been a way around that unfortuantely. If you're supporting the KS, you're directly supporting Palladium with trickledown to Ninja/Cypher/Soda and Harmony Gold instead of the other way around. For me personally, my interest in the Robotech IP has overcome my dislike of Palladium rules and business practices (helped by the fact that the rules only share some terms in common with palladium RPGs).
Female and male power armour. We need them added now. The Zen don't have a lot. As for dice it's great. Something that you can't buy later and you can sell them on eBay for good money. To say nothing of the fact that as more and more people get in the more strech goals need to make to back fill the extras.
@Alpharius: They should show what's after the dice, so that people can overlook the dice if they aren't that excited over them.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of the style of previews they're doing. I personally think they should completely show the current goal (instead of the "shadow" of the MACII they had during its duration) and tease the next goal right away if they want to keep some flexibility. Teasing the current goal and the next one would leave me with less interest if I were on the fence.
I watched the gameplay video and the rules seem decent. I'm hesitant to say anything more than initial impressions as it didn't show too much. The rules seem simpler than most full wargames like 40k but not as simply as X-wing for instance. You compare two stats and the difference between them is what you need to roll on a D6 to hit/damage (one roll for that unlike 40k). There are some modifiers they mentioned (rear attack, some sort of zentraedi "fight, fight, fight!" gang up bonus) but I'm not sure we're getting the full picture (any bonus/penalty for range?) yet. The target then may have the option of spending command dice to dodge or activate a variant system to minimize damage (anti-missle lasers versus incoming missile hits for instance). There didn't seem to be any crit mechanic demonstrated so if you hit you simlply subtract your damage listed on the weapon from the hitpoint boxes of the target. The basic zentraedi pods crumple in one hit from either a missile or gunpod so that's at least consistent with the show and they have a 5+ save to respawn to make up for it. My only real gripes are that the minis game has more close combat attack options listed for a veritech than shooting (which makes no sense) and the terms for them are lifted straight from the clunky RPG rules palladium has been rehashing since the original robotech game 25+ years ago.
It feels pretty... basic. The variation from game to game would seem to be limited to what you get from objectives and scenario, because it looks like there's a pretty easily derived 'best shot' most of the time. Command points should shake that up a bit, but I dunno - I am really interested in getting a hands on or a copy of the ruleset. Zentradi really need something beyond the Pods to make them interesting to play past 3-4 games I think.
I really hope they get the Male and Female armors through the KS. They've focused on the UEDF pretty heavily, but we need some more opfor!
If I were the producer of this game system, I would try to get the license for Macross Zero and make a game with SV-51 vs VF-0. By staying with Battletech, all the rest of the exciting models in Macross are excluded.
It feels pretty... basic. The variation from game to game would seem to be limited to what you get from objectives and scenario, because it looks like there's a pretty easily derived 'best shot' most of the time. Command points should shake that up a bit, but I dunno - I am really interested in getting a hands on or a copy of the ruleset. Zentradi really need something beyond the Pods to make them interesting to play past 3-4 games I think.
I really hope they get the Male and Female armors through the KS. They've focused on the UEDF pretty heavily, but we need some more opfor!
They did mention that they left out all of the 'advanced' rules though, which will include terrain and such.
So far, it looks OK, and that's with just the 2 troop types they've shown!
I watched the game play video. Looks pretty straight forward. I wonder what additional rules are in the advanced set besides terrain, etc. I wonder if they'll have ammo limits or some such thing. There were several instances in the show where the characters ran out of ammo during a battle. Now that the Monster is available...I'm looking forward to seeing Female Power armor, Max's VF-J or Miriya's VF-J. They were my favorite two characters in the show. I also can't wait to see the "Super" versions of the Veritechs and I wonder how much pwnage they can dish out to 5 hit point Regults. Hehe. One thing I wanted to see in the video is the rumored "full missile volley" where the unit blows it's full missile payload in one shot.
They did mention that they left out all of the 'advanced' rules though, which will include terrain and such.
Yup. I'm reserving judgement until then, but that's my impression so far. I'm just concerned that the extra bits - like the artillery pods or super packs - won't really change the gameplay all that much, just give you more dakka or hits.
Which is why I really want the Male and Female power armors to unlock, dang it. Treating the Valkyries to a full missile salvo from the Female, or particle cannon blast (assuming it's like the Tomahawk's) would be awesome, and they theoretically are more durable than the pods. It's basically the same choices the UEDF have now between the Valks and the Destroids; if you only had the Valks to choose from (in one mode, no less) that would get old fast, I think.
wildger wrote: If I were the producer of this game system, I would try to get the license for Macross Zero and make a game with SV-51 vs VF-0. By staying with Battletech, all the rest of the exciting models in Macross are excluded.
wildger wrote: If I were the producer of this game system, I would try to get the license for Macross Zero and make a game with SV-51 vs VF-0. By staying with Battletech, all the rest of the exciting models in Macross are excluded.
You do know that Harmony Gold cannot get the license for Macross' sequel series, right? Big West/Tatsunoko refuse to allow them access to it and for good reason. Macross is a separate entitiy from Robotech, so you will never see VF-0s, SV-51s, VF-17s, VF-25s, etc. in Robotech. That being said, I'm surprised HG has basically done nothing to expand Robotech themselves. Best we got was Shadow Chronicles and an incomplete and generally reviled Sentinels.
Spartan-Kun wrote: Wait so they've been sitting on it this whole time? Doing nothing?!
Harmony Gold created the Shadow Chronicles, which take place after the Invid Invasion. They are (IMO) a horrible hack-job on what McKinney wrote. I don't know that I want HG doing anything more with the license, for fear of how badly they will screw it up.
Spartan-Kun wrote: I watched the shadow chornicles movie. It wasn't too bad. Just confusing.
The combat animations were pretty lazy. Instead of actually animating the fighters at times, they simply zoomed around the static model in 3rd person perspective to give the feel of movement when nothing on the mech model actually moved. I'm not talking about tiny veritechs in the distance either but scenes where the entire focus is on a major character mech. Visually, shadow chronicles was very disappointing in terms of mechporn.
Curse you, whoever posted that link to the Robotech episodes on YouTube. I've watched the first few of them, and it actually is pretty good. There is some really bad animation, and some strange gaps in logic at times, but it still manages to be pretty interesting.
On top of that, I happened to be looking at the Kickstarter page and saw an open Early Bird spot for the boxed game, which sucked me in. I definitely want Rick and Roy, so now I'm at $100 for them plus the boxed game. I'm hoping they double the Gnerl fighter add on, then maybe I'd grab a unit of those. But there's a lot of time left still, so who knows what other cool stuff they will have by the end.
Indeed. They seem to be following a stretch goal pattern of adding a new unit, then adding a freebie to either the core game or blitzkrieg level, and then adding more value to an existing stretch. The doubling of gnerls to 4 for $20 seems to be the next goal.
Regarding the balance of Add-Ons and freebies, I've been pretty pleased with the balance so far. I want them to have some financial success with the game, and I understand why some of the main new content is purchasable (such as the MAC II).
In truth, I didn't throw money down until I got what I wanted for the asking price. Which, for me, happened with Roy Fokker. The value point for me was at Battle Cry when it hit 260K. Don't get me wrong, I'll take the Stretch Bonuses, but I see them as bonuses. I won't grumble over dice and a Recon Pod, because hey...free dice and a Recon Pod!!! That said, other folks have more experience with KS, and perhaps less nostalgic attraction to Robotech. They may not feel the 140 bones Battle Cry is worth it yet. I get that. I've even thrown some extra money in the pot to account for the add-ons I know I want (the Long prints, an extra Rick and Roy, the Spartan pack). And I'll be happy to put more in if they make add-ons I want. I have no doubt the main box will get some more good stuff, and I have no doubt I'm going to have to pay for some of what I am waiting for (namely the Male and Female PA and the different Veritech options...I'm hoping the latter are Stretch goals for the baseline and expecting the PA to be Add-Ons, but we will see).
Albino Squirrel wrote: Curse you, whoever posted that link to the Robotech episodes on YouTube. I've watched the first few of them, and it actually is pretty good. There is some really bad animation, and some strange gaps in logic at times, but it still manages to be pretty interesting.
One of the problems with macross is that it was animated by 3 different teams. Most of the animation is of decent-but-not-great TV quality, but some of it was given to a team of student animators and the drop in quality for those parts is extremely noticeable. But, there were some sequences done by a 3rd team of expert animators and the quality of those scenes is astonishing, nearly OVA quality. The space combat scenes from when the SDF-1 makes it back to earth (battlecry, I think is the episode) still stand up to stuff coming out today. As for gaps in logic, well, yeah. There's no getting around the space tuna. Or retrieving the space tuna from the vacuum of space with only a scarf wrapped around your open faced helmet. Just shut your brain off and enjoy cool robots blowing each other up.
CaptKaruthors wrote: ...Now that the Monster is available...I'm looking forward to seeing Female Power armor, Max's VF-J or Miriya's VF-J.
I don't understand the people clamoring for these kinds of thing. They're VF-1Js. We're already getting VF-1Js, they're a thing. You can order extras. Just paint one blue and paint another red. There was absolutely nothing special about Rick's or Max's or Miriya's or Ben's VF-1Js, they just had different paint schemes. What we need is figures that aren't in yet, like the Zentraedi power armors/infantry, artillery Battle Pods, VF-1Ds, super veritechs, armored veritechs etc.
Kalamadea wrote: I don't understand the people clamoring for these kinds of thing. They're VF-1Js. We're already getting VF-1Js, they're a thing. You can order extras. Just paint one blue and paint another red. There was absolutely nothing special about Rick's or Max's or Miriya's or Ben's VF-1Js, they just had different paint schemes. What we need is figures that aren't in yet, like the Zentraedi power armors/infantry, artillery Battle Pods, VF-1Ds, super veritechs, armored veritechs etc.
Well except for the facts that they have different stats, boosts, and poses you can't make without serious modifications.
But yea, other than that, they're totally the same as a stock VF-1J.
Yes, I also want the other stuff too, especially the Arty Pods, Super/Armored VT's, and armored infantry.
So the next stretch goal is going from 2 Zentrati fighters to 3
Which kind of makes me wonder how they're doing the sprues. As we all know making a plastic mold costs a lot, let's say $50k so you want cram as much as you can onto it. Including additional sprues is cheap, the cost of the plastic + labor.
So I wonder, does this mean we'll get 3 sprues of fighters instead of 2, or is this is a fake out, the sprues already held 3 fighters and we would have gotten that anyway.
Ah maybe I'm too suspicious, this KS has been going like gangbusters and they've added something every day or two.
Also does anyone know if this can/will include Palladiums own stuff? In later books they added their own mechs to Robotech Macross. None of them were all that great but I wonder if they even can include them.
Kalamadea wrote: I don't understand the people clamoring for these kinds of thing. They're VF-1Js. We're already getting VF-1Js, they're a thing. You can order extras. Just paint one blue and paint another red. There was absolutely nothing special about Rick's or Max's or Miriya's or Ben's VF-1Js, they just had different paint schemes. What we need is figures that aren't in yet, like the Zentraedi power armors/infantry, artillery Battle Pods, VF-1Ds, super veritechs, armored veritechs etc.
Well except for the facts that they have different stats, boosts, and poses you can't make without serious modifications.
But yea, other than that, they're totally the same as a stock VF-1J.
Yes, I also want the other stuff too, especially the Arty Pods, Super/Armored VT's, and armored infantry.
I think the pose thing is the important one. Assuming there are rules for Max and other special characters in the rule book then any VT can be painted blue and count as Max.
But the renders we've seen for the VTs have limited poses so a new battloid in a cool pose would have added value.
Which again makes me wonder how they're doing sprues. Unless it's one mech per sprue it makes no sense to do a sprue for just Max, or Rick, or Roy. A sprue with 3 or more special characters would make more sense.
KK, those very ideas are being brought up in the comments section.
IMHO, another weak stretch.
Want my money? Drop the +1 Gnerl into the $140 pledge box, and tell me I need 3 for a squad.
Guess what, I drop another $20.
Although it is climbing at a steady rate and will surely end well, the average backer is around $175, or basically the $140 box + 1 Add-on. Their money appears to be coming from new people pledging and not the current backers dumping more money into the KS. Weak stretches like this, again IMHO, take the wind out of the sails and don't create buzz.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: So I wonder, does this mean we'll get 3 sprues of fighters instead of 2, or is this is a fake out, the sprues already held 3 fighters and we would have gotten that anyway.
Ah maybe I'm too suspicious, this KS has been going like gangbusters and they've added something every day or two.
Also does anyone know if this can/will include Palladiums own stuff? In later books they added their own mechs to Robotech Macross. None of them were all that great but I wonder if they even can include them.
Nah, there is a good chance that is exactly how they planned it. They "unlocked" zentraedi dice when they're clearly shown in the preview video posted on day 1. I don't have a problem with stretch goals unlocked extra value in previously added add-ons like some people do from the comments as long as the freebie goals are worthwhile now that the dice are out of the way. I don't think the molds are actually made yet as they seem to be tweaking models and their poses still so I doubt anyone outside of Ninja or Palladium will ever know.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Another thought on sprues, unlike say a 40k sprue they can't fill empty space with skulls, pouches and other stuff.
But they could fill it with small vehicles (APCs, cars etc) and debris (scraps of mechs, piles of rubble).
This would be an easy way to add value which, other than the design time would not add much to costs (just pennies for the additional plastic).
Sigh, I need to pledge soon...
Away with thee pesky will power.
Or even zentraedi armored infantry... That would make for great filler. As Harmony Gold seems to be making Palladium stick to the anime much more than they did the last time around, there isn't much wiggle room in this compared with 40k. You can't just *poof* invent a new Predator variant every time the new codex comes out no matter how cool the Gnarly Gnerl transport variant may be.
Even after my little sunshine post, I admit it is tough to get excited about a +1 to a unit most people were not clamoring for. I don't mind stretch goals I'm not interested in...I just want goals that somebody will be interested in. But as has been pointed out, there is still almost the full four weeks to go. I assume they have planned this out to some level, and know how to balance the vegetables and the sweets.
I tend to agree that Max and Miriya are worthwhile additions. Just for the posing options...assuming that character models have dynamic and unique poses. Worth it for those of us as interested in the visual side of it as with the gaming side.
dienekes96 wrote: Even after my little sunshine post, I admit it is tough to get excited about a +1 to a unit most people were not clamping for. I don't mind stretch goals I'm not interested in...I just want goals that somebody will be interested in. But as has been pointed out. Still almost the full four weeks to go. I assume they have planned this out to some level, and know how to balance the vegetables and the sweets.
I tend to agree that Max and Miriya are worthwhile additions. Just for the posing options...assuming that characters have dynamic and unique poses. Worth it for those of us as interested in the visual side of it as with the gaming side.
Don't get me wrong above.. I'm defending the goal because I don't think it deserves the hate that its getting but that doesn't mean I think it's a good goal overall. It's great for people who are already interested in getting a gnerl but otherwise is a bit meh. The thing I'd be most worried about is the kickstarter largely stalling as a result of too many goals in a row not adding free value to the blitzkrieg+ pledge level. If the next one isn't a good freebie that people have been clamoring for (free artillery bits upgrade sprues for regults or even free complete artillery models at blitzkrieg and up for instance), that might be an issue. With paid goal followed by mediocre "free" upgrade that had been planned all along followed by paid goal upgrade, we need a good freebie next if they want to keep the stretch goal a day pace that the KS has had.
Yeah, the fighters aren't exactly blowing me away, but with this much time left I figure it's okay to sort through some chaff to get to the real golden wheat we all know is in there.
As for Max and Miriya, I think it'd be awesome to have their Battloids posed fighting back to back, as they do in one of the combat sequences near the end of the first series. A cursory google search isn't coming up with anything, but I'm sure someone knows the scene I'm talking about.
The rate of roughly 100 people and 22-27k or so per day has kept steady thus far, but it is still early. Hopefully we'll get this next one knocked out tomorrow (or early Friday at the latest) and can go into the weekend with something to sink our teeth into (collectively) around the 400k mark.
Edit: hell, even dropping to 10k per day would still push them over 600k total, which would presumably be another half dozen or dozen goals (depending on how they were spaced), which is room even at a conservative pace for most of the 'base' stuff people seem to want to be in the box or at least available.
And we all know that last day or two will be bonkers.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: This would be an easy way to add value which, other than the design time would not add much to costs (just pennies for the additional plastic).
Tooling for those extra bits costs many times more than the little design time that they would spend on it. It would be neat...but it isn't something that would not add much to the costs by any means.
Warboss, I agree. I'm not arguing for or against it, and I'm certainly not decrying it as the end of the Robotech Tactics party. I do think the next 30K may be a winding road, for the reasons you just said.
Were it my decision, I'd advertise multiple Stretch goals at any given time: the next Add-On at $X, the next upgrade at $Y, and the next Add-On upgrade at $Z. Of the three forthcoming goals, one of them is bound to be more exciting (like the MAC), right? But I don't know what I'm talking about, admittedly.
Separate note. The previous UEDF dice were in addition to the Battle dice already included. The wording on the Zent dice makes it look like they *replace* the battle dice. Which is ok. I have dice coming out of ears. But I want free dice!
See, I'm happy about the gnerl upgrade because I really need variety in this game, I can't just have the same units en masse, so getting 3 gnerls instead of just 2 is definitely a sell for me getting that add-on. If they had made it 4, like they did with the destroids, it would be an absolute no-brainer.
warboss wrote: The thing I'd be most worried about is the kickstarter largely stalling as a result of too many goals in a row not adding free value to the blitzkrieg+ pledge level. If the next one isn't a good freebie that people have been clamoring for (free artillery bits upgrade sprues for regults or even free complete artillery models at blitzkrieg and up for instance), that might be an issue. With paid goal followed by mediocre "free" upgrade that had been planned all along followed by paid goal upgrade, we need a good freebie next if they want to keep the stretch goal a day pace that the KS has had.
I tried pounding this across in the comments section and, well... it's the internet right?
Stretches like this add value for some, but not for all. If they want to keep their pace, they need to appeal to new backers via overall value as well as current backers to give more.
My example was a 30k stretch for a +1 Gnerl to a purchased add-on would not generate as much influx as a 50k for a +2 Artillery Pod free add-on to the boxed set.
People are basically telling them what they want and how to get them to give Palladium more money.
I think they should follow that trail.
[Edit] @ Recruittons - I agree to a point, but if the +1 went into the box it would add value to the box and drive more people to drop $20 for the 2 pack. Same end reward, and would most likely make more money for them by getting people to buy the add-on. Right now they are after the $20, why not go after the $140 + the $20?
@TalonZahn: I agree with that 100%, actually. I'm okay with the goal, but definitely not satisfied by it. I think adding a 1 or 2 gnerls into the blitzkrieg level would be better for driving backers, period. I'm maintaining my simple $70 EB box game pledge because, for me, I don't see the need to get the battlecry level. It has more of the same I'm already getting and I feel can get more for my money by spending the extra $70 I save on add-ons I'm NOT getting. If they were to toss in 3-4 things that are add-on only right now? I'd definitely want to move up.
I'm fairly certain that with the advent of a lot of Kickstarters over-promising and under-delivering, what we're seeing is a new type of Kickstarter - one run by veterans who are now properly calculating costs associated with every stretch goal. 30k to tool a larger sprue, or to add another sprue, now giving an unknown number of backers who will select that add-on, seems to be more of a correct business move to make sure they don't lose their shirts on the set. Especially if they are trying to factor in the economy of scale - how many will be ordering it, how much is tooling, how much is production, etc. I personally don't mind not ridiculous over-promising if it means I will actually get a quality product.
I do, however, agree, in that they should have at least 2 goals posted in order to drive interest. But I believe they might actually want to keep a steady pace so they don't wind up in the situation where so much stuff is given away to so many thousands of backers that they start losing money on it.
recruittons wrote: @TalonZahn: I agree with that 100%, actually. I'm okay with the goal, but definitely not satisfied by it. I think adding a 1 or 2 gnerls into the blitzkrieg level would be better for driving backers, period. I'm maintaining my simple $70 EB box game pledge because, for me, I don't see the need to get the battlecry level. It has more of the same I'm already getting and I feel can get more for my money by spending the extra $70 I save on add-ons I'm NOT getting. If they were to toss in 3-4 things that are add-on only right now? I'd definitely want to move up.
Exactly.
Thank you.
[Edit] @ Judge - Before I go to bed...
I do agree with that statement. However, they should be able to look at numbers and say "It will cost X to produce Y amount." Then decide we can put Y amount in the boxed set providing we make X. So our next stretch goal will be as close as we are comfortable to that X amount."
If they make too many, leftovers can go on the shelf. If the cut it too close and lose some money, well we already funded the most expensive part and everything from there on is gravy.
TalonZahn wrote: I tried pounding this across in the comments section and, well... it's the internet right?
Stretches like this add value for some, but not for all. If they want to keep their pace, they need to appeal to new backers via overall value as well as current backers to give more.
The problem is that there are people who just post that the goal sucks when it doesn't. It adds 50% more value to a specific add-on and that benefits people who want the gnerl for variety as well as people who were on the fence. I mean.. seriously... people are getting the option to buy a model roughly the size of an elder jetbike for $6.77.. that's not a bad deal if you're interested in it (I'm not personally). There is a difference between something being good for a minority only and being bad but too many things in a row that only benefit a minority of pledgers or provide no real value benefit can indeed be a bad thing. I think the next goal IMO will determine if that's going to be the case here.
TalonZahn wrote: I tried pounding this across in the comments section and, well... it's the internet right?
Stretches like this add value for some, but not for all. If they want to keep their pace, they need to appeal to new backers via overall value as well as current backers to give more.
The problem is that there are people who just post that the goal sucks when it doesn't. It adds 50% more value to a specific add-on and that benefits people who want the gnerl for variety as well as people who were on the fence. I mean.. seriously... people are getting the option to buy a model roughly the size of an elder jetbike for $6.77.. that's not a bad deal if you're interested in it (I'm not personally). There is a difference between something being good for a minority only and being bad but too many things in a row that only benefit a minority of pledgers or provide no real value benefit can indeed be a bad thing. I think the next goal IMO will determine if that's going to be the case here.
I don't think there is really much of a threat at all to them not getting enough from current backers...the key is always getting new backers with these things, and for that - turning 2 miniatures into 3 works...as does simply chugging along at a steady rate and making sure updates happen on a regular basis to get spammed across the internet.
If you look at past KS campaigns, average pledge levels tend to be around the $150-200 mark for big miniature campaigns. Currently the average pledge level for this campaign is $175 or so, which puts them right in the pocket. Considering how much time there is left to add more stuff, I do not doubt that this campaign will actually be on the higher side of that when it is done. However, getting 1 person to increase their pledge by $20 or $40 as opposed to getting one person to decide to back the campaign - the one new person is several times more valuable than the increase by the person who is already backing the campaign. Not only do you get a larger chunk of money from that new person - you also get a new foot soldier to tell their friends about the campaign and move it forward.
The campaign itself is well ahead of Zombicide, Sedition Wars, Bones, KoW... If you look at their charts on KS and then compare this one - the current trend is in fact favorable. Even with campaigns that started out with a bigger jump, like Zombicide 2 - those campaigns were on a downward slide at this point while this is still maintaining steady growth. The growth is in fact so favorable that I would be willing to bet that the final total for this campaign will be higher than all 6 previous CMoN campaigns combined.
Not possible, I'm afraid Sean. Zombicide season 2 finished at over $2.1 Million on it's own, never mind the other 5. Calculating the rise per day, it's likely that this will end up in the same ballpark as that - IF it keeps going as it has, which is not as likely.
Admittedly, that is still an AMAZING showing for a first-off, but no where near beating a combined total for the previous 6 CMoN campaigns.
Unfortunately, I am one of the backers who will not be contributing nearly as much to this campaign. I have some interest in rekindling my love of Robotech, less so for Palladium. I am also more of a modeller than a candidate for playing this game, and therefore I am only pledging for the KS exclusive models. If I hear good things about the game after it has been released in Britain, I may well get into it - or at least pick up a VF set and a MAC II.
I'm just hoping after the fighters something exciting is added, free or add-on I don't care. Preferably more Zentradi units. It'd be nice to see the next two stretch goals instead of just the next one.
I do agree with that statement. However, they should be able to look at numbers and say "It will cost X to produce Y amount." Then decide we can put Y amount in the boxed set providing we make X. So our next stretch goal will be as close as we are comfortable to that X amount."
If they make too many, leftovers can go on the shelf. If the cut it too close and lose some money, well we already funded the most expensive part and everything from there on is gravy.
Yeah, but how much is Y amount? It adds and grows each day. I can imagine running a KS is a huge headache when it comes to the numbers game as they have to figure out production runs and costs associated with initial run (including tooling) and second runs, and such. The wider, and not as flamboyant, stretch goals seems less likely to be just "stingy" but more likely to be "this number makes us feel comfortable in being able to actually afford to produce this and send it to peeps".
And we've got like 25 days left and the $140 level is already a great deal. I would be happy if it ended right now (as long as they had plans to release the power armors in the future )
And we've got like 25 days left and the $140 level is already a great deal. I would be happy if it ended right now (as long as they had plans to release the power armors in the future )
Agreed, if I had to choose between waiting and getting for potential freebies or getting whats out now at Showdown and forego any future minis I'd be more than happy to get what I'm getting now.
I don't get what people are complaining about. I think this is a great stretch goal. A pack of two Gnerls seemed dumb to me so I suspected it would change. It's good to see that it actually has -- makes me feel a lot better about the add-on.
They doubled the Destroids from 2 to 4, so increasing the Gnerls from 2 to 3 is less impressive. Even if there are really good reasons for this being the case (bigger/heavier/more complicated model, potential molding issues, an expectation that it won't move all that many units, etc).
And comes on the tail end of a BIG push to get the MAC II (paid only) and a dice upgrade (expected as it was, I doubt many people were going to be excited about that).
The teaser at the half way point is a nice bone to throw to people, but I do wish they'd just flat out have the next two goals lined up clearly.
@ judge, mostly... lol - The honest truth about the "Y Amount" is that the number is immaterial. This game is going to shelf, so they don't need to guess that number for just the KS. It's for the production run they would make normally, then allocate some to the KS. These are core units for the game, not one-offs, limited time only, etc. Even if they were, there will always be an avenue to sell those, because... limited edition.
Anyway, I was looking over the boxes and I decided to throw some numbers around and I guess the reason the $140 level isn't that impressive to me so far, is that it's only got what amounts to about $40 over the $80 box + a couple add-ons. I can buy what they are putting in the $140 box already, so technically I'm not being given anything extra. The only items that seperate it are the Roy fig, the "special valk" (which amounts to 1 extra head option), and the art. Everything else can be bought, which brings it up to..... around $140.
I wonder if this is why we haven't seen any pledge level comparisons that are often seen in other Kickstarters.
Once again, to be clear, I'm dumping wads of cash on it already. I'm a fan of many of the things going on, coming out, etc., and so on.
However, from the view of a passerby, hesitant backer, or friend that needs convincing... I just don't think Palladium are selling themselves as well as they could/should be or perhaps drawing in backers with that "Sweet deal" that everyone is looking for in a KS.
@Talon, mainly I was referring to the add-ons and the bonus figs. Sure, the box will be made, and contain the normal components. But the mathlete number-crunching has gotta come from the new units and the freebies.
I too am dumping in a truckload of cash. I've been waiting for this since I was a kid. Those figs could be 10 bucks apiece with no box set and no deals and I would still buy 50 of them.
judgedoug wrote: I too am dumping in a truckload of cash. I've been waiting for this since I was a kid. Those figs could be 10 bucks apiece with no box set and no deals and I would still buy 50 of them.
TalonZahn wrote: Anyway, I was looking over the boxes and I decided to throw some numbers around and I guess the reason the $140 level isn't that impressive to me so far, is that it's only got what amounts to about $40 over the $80 box + a couple add-ons. I can buy what they are putting in the $140 box already, so technically I'm not being given anything extra. The only items that seperate it are the Roy fig, the "special valk" (which amounts to 1 extra head option), and the art. Everything else can be bought, which brings it up to..... around $140.
Now that we have the listed "value" of the dice, my little personal count of the relative values of the two core sets versus battlecry (once they're equaled out to the same contents as much as possible) will be equal with one more $20-25 freebie at the battlecry level (assuming that you think VF-1S bits and an art print = a rulebook). I strongly considered getting the $70 early bird as I don't expect to need much more basic valks and pods and would rather spend the difference on getting models that increase the variety instead.. but the KS has been doing a good enough job with that so far with several more weeks to go. $70 core + Rick/Roy $30 + MAC II $40 is what would be my current must buy with female power armor and artillery pod upgrades sprues/kits being the future ones I expect. If I can get some of the latter as freebies (likely with the artillery pods but unlikely with the power armor), I might stay at the blitzkrieg level. All in all since I don't know anyone else locally who is getting this game, I don't want to invest more than $200 total in it. If I can get the models I want with Blitzkrieg and still stay under $200, I'll stick with it. Otherwise, I'll drop down to $70 and buy the variety of kits that I want and save a few bucks (at the obvious expense of basic units like an extra squadron of VF-1As and standard battlepods). Either way, I likely won't be able to make that decision until May 20th if the incredible last day skyrocketing of the myth kickstarter I was watching is any indication.
However, from the view of a passerby, hesitant backer, or friend that needs convincing... I just don't think Palladium are selling themselves as well as they could/should be or perhaps drawing in backers with that "Sweet deal" that everyone is looking for in a KS.
Selling themselves well isn't a strength of Palladium. Putting their foot in their corporate mouth and putting themselves at odds with their fans and former contributors tends to be though. Hopefully, they'll buck the trend with this kickstarter or at least mostly keep quiet. Ninja seems to be doing most of the talking which is probably a good thing.
judgedoug wrote: I too am dumping in a truckload of cash. I've been waiting for this since I was a kid. Those figs could be 10 bucks apiece with no box set and no deals and I would still buy 50 of them.
My friend, this is the sad and disgusting truth.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for lots of deals! I *NEED* these to live. haha
Barzam wrote: You do know that Harmony Gold cannot get the license for Macross' sequel series, right? Big West/Tatsunoko refuse to allow them access to it and for good reason. Macross is a separate entitiy from Robotech, so you will never see VF-0s, SV-51s, VF-17s, VF-25s, etc. in Robotech. That being said, I'm surprised HG has basically done nothing to expand Robotech themselves. Best we got was Shadow Chronicles and an incomplete and generally reviled Sentinels.
For your and everyone's information, Robotech originated from Macross. Without the initial Macross series from Japan, there won't be any Robotech. Because the original series was not long enough, two completely separate series were added to make it into Robotech. Harmony Gold did absolutely nothing to expand the the series and refused to give away the right for the unseeen series for Battletech fans. With such a track record, people are pulling money into it? What for?
Barzam wrote: You do know that Harmony Gold cannot get the license for Macross' sequel series, right? Big West/Tatsunoko refuse to allow them access to it and for good reason. Macross is a separate entitiy from Robotech, so you will never see VF-0s, SV-51s, VF-17s, VF-25s, etc. in Robotech. That being said, I'm surprised HG has basically done nothing to expand Robotech themselves. Best we got was Shadow Chronicles and an incomplete and generally reviled Sentinels.
For your and everyone's information, Robotech originated from Macross. Without the initial Macross series from Japan, there won't be any Robotech. Because the original series was not long enough, two completely separate series were added to make it into Robotech. Harmony Gold did absolutely nothing to expand the the series and refused to give away the right for the unseeen series for Battletech fans. With such a track record, people are pulling money into it? What for?
Because I think the Macross series, overall, has been inferior and progressively getting worse.
Because I think the Robotech storyline, overall, is better.
Because I want to have Zentraedi fighting Invid.
wildger wrote: With such a track record, people are pulling money into it? What for?
For cool, affordable plastic models from a beloved franchise.
Indeed. My motivations are similar now to what they were back in 1986... I simply want the toys. I've bought more Robotech toys in my late 20's/early 30's than I did in the 80's. Hell, I bought a half dozen full size mattel battlepods and knock off 1/60 veritechs to do a mega scale Robotech floor game at GenCon after I saw people doing the same with battletech. Unfortunately, life and moving across the country got in the way of my yearly pilgrimage to the convention and running the game.
I think you meant, I want to have a Logan hovertank core a Shock Trooper and a Battler Cyclone goes nuts on a Female Zentradi armor while a VF-1A takes a Bioroid to town, right?
I think you meant, I want to have a Logan hovertank core a Shock Trooper and a Battler Cyclone goes nuts on a Female Zentradi armor while a VF-1A takes a Bioroid to town, right?
Mummm.... VR-41 Cyclone....
One of my favorite scenes in all of Robotech is during Robotech II, when the little baby Invid Cougar Inorganics pounce on Bioroids (and the pilot whines "eeaauugghh"). I hope hopehope please pleaseplease that they make the Inorganics. I _love_ those designs.
I'm also in the super minority in that I love the Southern Cross mecha as well. I can't wait to have Logans and Hovertanks zipping around blasting Bioroids on sleds.
Because I think the Macross series, overall, has been inferior and progressively getting worse.
Because I think the Robotech storyline, overall, is better.
May be you can tell us how the Robotech storyline is getting better. Other than Shadow Chronicles as a sequel, I am not aware of anything out in the market. That series is OK.
Macross, on the other hand, has II, Plus, 7, Zero, and Frontier.
The zero and Frontier are better than the previous series. I don't see how you feel that it is getting worse.
Because I think the Macross series, overall, has been inferior and progressively getting worse.
Because I think the Robotech storyline, overall, is better.
May be you can tell us how the Robotech storyline is getting better. Other than Shadow Chronicles as a sequel, I am not aware of anything out in the market. That series is OK.
Macross, on the other hand, has II, Plus, 7, Zero, and Frontier.
The zero and Frontier are better than the previous series. I don't see how you feel that it is getting worse.
I didn't say that the Robotech storyline is getting better. I said overall, it is better.
As for the Macross storyline, I think the original series is just fine, I think Plus is great, I thought 7 was a horrible waste of my life (but I managed to get through it), Zero was alright, and Frontier wouldn't have been successful at all if it didn't have the "Macross" name in front of it. Frontier is a generibad anime and after watching it, I came to realize that the people in charge of the property literally have no idea what they're doing, and Macross has just turned into a cash cow for them where they can just borrow a generic terrible anime script, slap "Macross" in front of it, put a transforming plane in it, and watch the money roll in.
I have had the rare fortune of seeing Robotech, every Macross series, most of the original Super Dimension Cavalary Southern Cross and all of Genesis Climber Mospeada... and I like Robotech the best.
Now, Macross Ai Oboete Imasuka and Flashback 2012 are different... those are amazing... and Ai Oboete Imasuka is in my top films of all time. I love that movie.
Just hit the 
