Almost all Brit traders, very few European ones. No GW, no Privateer Press, or really any other major miniatures game publisher other than Battlefront.
I don't recognize a single American company on that list unless it has a European branch (Old Glory), yet you are going to take to task some small American publisher with a single little game for not showing up?
I mean, let's criticize them for things that are worth criticizing them for. If you are looking for any excuse to complain about them, then you should take a step back.
Woah, there, Nelly! You're focusing laser fine on a single aspect/reading of his post and ignoring the wider point that he also apparently didn't see any retailers selling the stuff there nor any players running games there. Sure, it's just one person's experience and YMMV (maybe he missed a massive slew of Robotech selling like hotcakes in a nook of the vender hall or a huge participation game). Now you can poo-poo that first hand account away as those in the EU backers only just recently got their stuff 5 months later than the already 1 year late North American delivery but that's not much of a positive point for Palladium either. EU sellers had the game for many months and yet no one decided to do anything with it (either the sellers or potential players who didn't pledge) there either.
I don't know why you're taking it like someone calling your own child ugly but it's simply another point to consider in the eventual determination (still too early though) of whether the game is a success. We now have Adepticon and Salute and we have Origins and Gencon still upcoming. At that point, personally, I think we'll have enough as a community to see if this is a hit or a dud. At this point, IMO, it's still too early but we have early indicators though (including this one).
warboss wrote: Woah, there, Nelly! You're focusing laser fine on a single aspect/reading of his post and ignoring the wider point that he also apparently didn't see any retailers selling the stuff there nor any players running games there. Sure, it's just one person's experience and YMMV (maybe he missed a massive slew of Robotech selling like hotcakes in a nook of the vender hall or a huge participation game). Now you can poo-poo that first hand account away as those in the EU backers only just recently got their stuff 5 months later than the already 1 year late North American delivery but that's not much of a positive point for Palladium either. EU sellers had the game for many months and yet no one decided to do anything with it (either the sellers or potential players who didn't pledge) there either.
I don't know why you're taking it like someone calling your own child ugly but it's simply another point to consider in the eventual determination (still too early though) of whether the game is a success. We now have Adepticon and Salute and we have Origins and Gencon still upcoming. At that point, personally, I think we'll have enough as a community to see if this is a hit or a dud. At this point, IMO, it's still too early but we have early indicators though (including this one).
I'm not taking it personally. I am providing a counter point to the idea that Palladium or the game should have some presence there, it is a Brit-centric show that has mostly independently run games, small- or middle-sized companies from GB.
Here is the list of games and events: http://www.salute.co.uk/files/salute2015games.pdf Where is X-Wing? Malifaux and Infinity's only presence is a single demo, one game of Warhammer, no Warmachine/Hordes. But let's critique that nobody did anything with Robotech...
The constant whining and criticism of Palladium becomes tiring. Especially when it gets into nit-picking from those who only want to complain and gripe and need to look for any excuse to take a swipe.
We backers have to wait and deal with a company that has no idea what it is doing regarding managing customer expectations or communication. It is frustrating. Complain about things that are actually worth complaining about.
I'm not taking it personally. I am providing a counter point to the idea that Palladium or the game should have some presence there, it is a Brit-centric show that has mostly independently run games, small- or middle-sized companies from GB.
Here is the list of games and events: http://www.salute.co.uk/files/salute2015games.pdf Where is X-Wing?
n815e wrote: Malifaux and Infinity's only presence is a single demo, one game of Warhammer, no Warmachine/Hordes. But let's critique that nobody did anything with Robotech...
The constant whining and criticism of Palladium becomes tiring. Especially when it gets into nit-picking from those who only want to complain and gripe and need to look for any excuse to take a swipe.
We backers have to wait and deal with a company that has no idea what it is doing regarding managing customer expectations or communication. It is frustrating. Complain about things that are actually worth complaining about.
You know what helps alleviate complaining? Getting your gak together as a company. That is infinitely more frustrating to me than the inevitable resulting complaining personally. As for nitpicking, Palladium is one inch off the ground low hanging fruit for taking a swipe. Every week they trim the bush a little bit lower to lessen the burden of finding stuff to criticize.
warboss wrote: Woah, there, Nelly! You're focusing laser fine on a single aspect/reading of his post and ignoring the wider point that he also apparently didn't see any retailers selling the stuff there nor any players running games there. Sure, it's just one person's experience and YMMV (maybe he missed a massive slew of Robotech selling like hotcakes in a nook of the vender hall or a huge participation game). Now you can poo-poo that first hand account away as those in the EU backers only just recently got their stuff 5 months later than the already 1 year late North American delivery but that's not much of a positive point for Palladium either. EU sellers had the game for many months and yet no one decided to do anything with it (either the sellers or potential players who didn't pledge) there either.
I don't know why you're taking it like someone calling your own child ugly but it's simply another point to consider in the eventual determination (still too early though) of whether the game is a success. We now have Adepticon and Salute and we have Origins and Gencon still upcoming. At that point, personally, I think we'll have enough as a community to see if this is a hit or a dud. At this point, IMO, it's still too early but we have early indicators though (including this one).
I'm not taking it personally. I am providing a counter point to the idea that Palladium or the game should have some presence there, it is a Brit-centric show that has mostly independently run games, small- or middle-sized companies from GB.
Here is the list of games and events: http://www.salute.co.uk/files/salute2015games.pdf Where is X-Wing? Malifaux and Infinity's only presence is a single demo, one game of Warhammer, no Warmachine/Hordes. But let's critique that nobody did anything with Robotech...
The constant whining and criticism of Palladium becomes tiring. Especially when it gets into nit-picking from those who only want to complain and gripe and need to look for any excuse to take a swipe.
We backers have to wait and deal with a company that has no idea what it is doing regarding managing customer expectations or communication. It is frustrating. Complain about things that are actually worth complaining about.
I don't think you understand the structure of Salute (this isn't a personal dig, it's an attempt at explanation) - most of the large games companies don't attend in person (GW, Privateer (although I think they do some community stuff like painting demos), Fantasy Flight, Wizkids etc etc), Battlefront is an exception, as is Forgeworld. What those companies all do have is support at the show from retailers carrying their product - Wayland Games, Troll Trader, Stafford Games (although I avoid them because of their owner's history) and many smaller retailers had product from all those publishers in huge amounts.
What Winterdyne was pointing out and I can support is that there was no Robotech available to buy from these retailers (none that I could see and I visited most stands and looked closely - not for Robotech, but just to see what was out there). It's not even necessarily a dig at Palladium - there might have been a lot of people looking to buy Robotech and retailers all missed an opportunity.
n815e wrote: The constant whining and criticism of Palladium becomes tiring. Especially when it gets into nit-picking from those who only want to complain and gripe and need to look for any excuse to take a swipe.
We backers have to wait and deal with a company that has no idea what it is doing regarding managing customer expectations or communication. It is frustrating. Complain about things that are actually worth complaining about.
While I don't disagree with you in principle, and I kind of agree with you in this specific situation (especially within the circumstances you provide), it's kind of a hard thing to balance. Because what you might find worth complaining about, others might not, and vice versa.
For example, I bet a significant majority of backers couldn't have given a flying toss about the EU/AU shipping woes, as they already had theirs. I think now that EU/AU have been shipped the majority increases for those who give a crap about RoW, for similar reasons. Some people thought the breakdown of the assembly of miniatures (ie, SpartanGate) were fine/acceptable. For me personally, it was a dealbreaker. The whole GenCon thing, and the handling of the vote, for me it was mostly comedy value at the time. For some, it was understood as a necessary act, for others it turned still interested fans into frothing madmen (madpersons?).
My point is, "You should only complain about stuff that matters to me, or that I think are important" is at least as problematic as complaining about every tiny issue. I agree it's mostly noise now. Hell, the KS Comments section is a barren hostile-laden wasteland. But that's because PB have forgotten Aristotle. "Nature abhors a vacuum". The criticisms aren't coming because PB continually put out well formed Updates in a reasonable timetable. The criticisms come become they aren't, and PB have lost any claim to benefit of the doubt. No, doing good Updates regularly won't quiet all criticism, but it COULD significantly alter the signal to noise ratio. I say could, because it may be too big a hole for them to dig themselves out of, at this point.
I'm not taking it personally. I am providing a counter point to the idea that Palladium or the game should have some presence there, it is a Brit-centric show that has mostly independently run games, small- or middle-sized companies from GB.
Here is the list of games and events: http://www.salute.co.uk/files/salute2015games.pdf Where is X-Wing?
Considering that you made a blanket statement limiting the presence of games at the entire event to the prereg list only when winterdyne was talking about the event in it's entirety in a strange attempt to refute his post, I'd say, yes, you should feel embarrassed when it took me all of 30 seconds to refute your go to example despite the goal post relocation you attempted. I anxiously await your post showing a cool Robotech game being played there. I'll throw you a bone and say that you don't have to have a Robotech cosplayer at the table out of the kindness of my heart. Also, just an FYI, complaining about complaining is still complaining.
We're all tired of the complaining. Hell, I don't go to the Robotech comments except the day of an update because of the Rick and Lola Bondage S&M room with the occasional Jaymz and Jorel sideshow it's turned into. The root problem though is that Palladium is giving us nothing other than a dice bag to do anything but complain about. They're the ones you should be concerned with, not your fellow fans that are still almost two years after paying still missing 2/3 of the sculpts we bought. The lack of a showing apparently by BOTH retailers and fans at the biggest tabletop gaming con in the EU indicates a lack of enthusiasm on both their parts and isn't a positive indicator (but obviously not a single deciding factor) in the long term health of the game.
In regards to 'providing counterpoints', my question is this; is this a situation where a 'devil's advocate' is really worth having?
Snark and mockery for comedic effect is present in spades, but on the rare time they do something worth actually talking about, it gets talked about. Credit is given when credit is due, however rare that might be.
Is it a public service? Does it do any good? Is it even worth bothering, given that the product line remains off of FRP's Top 20 list, thereby assuring its failure in the near future, what with FRP being such a strong representative of distribution and retail?
;-)
I get that some people tire of the negativity (feigned and genuine alike)... but if that's the case why bother keep coming back to the thread? It's not like anyone is being forced to read or participate, and going on a year and a half now it's not like that reputation is unknown.
Not that I'm saying anyone should stop. That'd be awfully hypocritical.
More a bit of commentary on the whole situation from above. If one wants models in progress, the occasional game pic/report and a primarily positive outlook on the game, Mike's page is right there.
But there've been enough bridges burned that I don't think this little cluster of curmudgeons is going to become anything resembling that anytime soon.
"Considering that you made a blanket statement limiting the presence of games at the entire event to the prereg list only when winterdyne was talking about the event in it's entirety in a strange attempt to refute his post, I'd say, yes, you should feel embarrassed when it took me all of 30 seconds to refute your go to example despite the goal post relocation you attempted. I anxiously await your post showing a cool Robotech game being played there. "
Sorry, I don't feel embarrassed. Your "gotcha" didn't get a whole lot, really.
The official con list of events/games didn't have it. It's hard to be embarrassed for not knowing of a game event that wasn't listed on the con's own website of games and events.
For "the biggest con" around the EU, Salute doesn't have a whole lot of the biggest games around represented at it.
Yet, Robotech not being there is somehow indicative of some negative point?
"We're all tired of the complaining."
I am tired of the Rick- and Jorel-style nit-picking.
There are actual good reasons to complain about how the company is handling this. Lack of communication, lack of progress, lack of support, lack of promotion or presence, lack of sticking to their word.
No presence at a British-centric con run by a local gaming club located where the product only recently arrived to backers for a game based on an American version of a Japanese cartoon from 30 years ago that has been out for less than six months and it is a con which is missing representation of the biggest names in the hobby? That tells us nothing about the Robotech.
But go ahead and tell us how this a failure of a small American publisher that makes a small, niche game.
Adepticon they had 8 people at their event and their booth was the only one stocking their product, and half their booth was RPG products. To be fair most booths were only featuring their own lines and there were only 3-4 booths with a more general assortment of products, those booths had 40k and warmachine and some bolt action stuff nobody outside of Palladium had any Robotech stuff. Vendors tend to bring the stuff that they expect to sell and it's usually a reflection of the customer demand at their homeshop, they likely don't have a serious Robotech player base so they stuck with the popular items they know they'll see sales with.
There's stuff that Palladium can do to grow their player base, but it's unlikely they'll put in the ground work and the game doesn't have much of a presence at the moment because it's reliant on outside volunteers and Palladium has no experience with promoting miniature games. Saga and most of the "underground" independent games were showing turnouts of around 30 players on average vs 8 for Robotech. Hopefully Robotech is a grower because at the moment it's not a shower.
The list that SLW put out is almost always incomplete; demos are run by numerous local clubs (and usually have a historical bent), but product presence is often shoe-horned onto retail stands etc.
There was (amongst lots of other stuff):
Buckets of Malifaux, including many really, really nice 'designed for Malifaux' terrain manufacturers.
Huge amounts of Infinity, both for sale in various places and in terrain specialists.
Huge amounts of Hawk Wargames (DZC, fleet battles etc).
Lots of Warmahordes. No demo games of that but many vendors doing a roaring trade.
Dozens of indie games (including Saga, and a new 4 player gladiator game that looked really interesting).
X-Wing aplenty, including a couple of demo games I saw. I walked away with a lot of X-wing stuff (scum faction, yay!).
Lots of representation of many EU manufacturers (Puppetswar, Micro Art Studios etc). I think a few of them were actually sharing booths...
I can't stress enough how big Salute is for the EU Wargames market. It is very much our Adepticon and GenCon rolled into one, with attendance way north of 10,000. The painting competition is dominated by the usual GDUK suspects (from all over Europe). The feel I get is that the event is moving up to take over from GW's more limiting event.
It's very much the place to get your product seen over here. If you make or intend to sell any sort of wargame miniature in the EU, you really do want presence of some sort. Otherwise the other shinies are what people will remember and buy.
I do know one thing, and just one thing, and it is of course anecdote and not evidence, but here it is anyway:
Since I've got my Showdown Wave 1 I've bought and assembled the following:
- A box of Eisenkern Stormtroopers
- A box of Skitarii troopers
- 8 Battletech metal reseen models
- A Deadzone core box
- About 600 points of assorted Infinity models
- A full Dark Eldar army (2 Raiders, 20 Warriors, 20 Wytches, 3 jetbikes, 5 Scourges, 5 Hellions, 5 Wracks, 1 Haemonculus, 2 Talos, 1 Venom, a couple of character conversions)
As for Robotech, I've assembled a grand total of 8 destroids, half a dozen battle pods, a Glaug, a recovery pod and 1 Valkyrie in the three modes, and I'm thoroughly fed up with them for the moment (by which I mean, the rest of the sprues are stored and I'll get to them whenever). Conversely, the above stuff has been a joy to assemble, and the quality is miles better. Yes, even the Deadzone restic stuff.
n815e wrote: "Considering that you made a blanket statement limiting the presence of games at the entire event to the prereg list only when winterdyne was talking about the event in it's entirety in a strange attempt to refute his post, I'd say, yes, you should feel embarrassed when it took me all of 30 seconds to refute your go to example despite the goal post relocation you attempted. I anxiously await your post showing a cool Robotech game being played there. "
Sorry, I don't feel embarrassed. Your "gotcha" didn't get a whole lot, really.
The official con list of events/games didn't have it. It's hard to be embarrassed for not knowing of a game event that wasn't listed on the con's own website of games and events.
For "the biggest con" around the EU, Salute doesn't have a whole lot of the biggest games around represented at it.
Yet, Robotech not being there is somehow indicative of some negative point?
"We're all tired of the complaining."
I am tired of the Rick- and Jorel-style nit-picking.
There are actual good reasons to complain about how the company is handling this. Lack of communication, lack of progress, lack of support, lack of promotion or presence, lack of sticking to their word.
No presence at a British-centric con run by a local gaming club located where the product only recently arrived to backers for a game based on an American version of a Japanese cartoon from 30 years ago that has been out for less than six months and it is a con which is missing representation of the biggest names in the hobby? That tells us nothing about the Robotech.
But go ahead and tell us how this a failure of a small American publisher that makes a small, niche game.
Can you post the part about the valid complaints on the KS comments? It might help Palladium see that even their white knights think they're doing a gakky job.
n815e wrote: "
Sorry, I don't feel embarrassed. Your "gotcha" didn't get a whole lot, really.
The official con list of events/games didn't have it. It's hard to be embarrassed for not knowing of a game event that wasn't listed on the con's own website of games and events.
But go ahead and tell us how this a failure of a small American publisher that makes a small, niche game.
The Paladium Cultists are hilarious.
But you're right, the fact that RRT didn't make it to this convention certainly is in no way PB's fault. Not in their terrible lateness, their frustrating mini-models, or their shipping to the UK 'whenever'. I'm sure all those things boosted the game in the UK tremendously.
At this point, even as the earliest person to prove him wrong, I'd say it might be best to leave well enough alone. N815e has already said he agrees there are significant issues with the ongoing campaign so no point in harping about the significance of a particular con. It's best not to start cannibalizing each other during the Great Robotech Kickstarter Famine of 2013...I mean 2014...dang it...2015 and counting. We all know who the real source of the information blight is.
warboss wrote: (maybe he missed a massive slew of Robotech selling like hotcakes in a nook of the vender hall or a huge participation game).
Now, I'm imagining someone in a shadowy nook of the game hall, dressed in a trenchcoat, opening it and pulling forth a small model as he speaks in a raspy voice "Hey buddy, wanna buy a battle pod?"
I just wish that PB would stop hawking the dice bag and making a big deal about the corrected stuff on their weekly newsletter. After about the second appearance, it IS just spam filler to their newsletter. But then, if they took off those things that were completed, their newsletter would be footnote...
Okay, complaint or observation:
What bothers me is how Palladium looks like it is using RRT like a lead-in for their RPG's.
Is it just me or do they stock more of their rags than the game at their last few events?
I can just imagine them saying: "when you are done playing with your toys, come play a real Man's game that uses imagination... you will thank us!" They are such a "small time" mentality operation it just hurts, like they are afraid to succeed and throttle back.
There is only one reason to hang around and complain: freak'in Wave 2.
I kinds figured for the general public this game is dead, subject matter is before many people's time.
I got most of what I wanted as a complete game.
I have known Palladium for a long time and cease to care what they put in print: give me the models, I will take it from there.
The gushy, coy missives from them just seem all that more wrong because it is written with the thought we are "superfans" when we are gamers who want toys from our childhood and could care less what company it is other than not to be a pain in the release... and oh, the pain.
The guy recreated the campaign and battles from the Bye-Bye Mars episodes in the show. His table is pretty cool.
Very cool link, thanks for posting it. After reading the tournament rules I had to laugh though, this guy would probably be disqualified because his fighter-mode Valkyries are too tall.
One of my complaints with the objectives and convoy markers is nothing is available through the company to make these. I am long time Flames of War player and Battlefront has loads of objective markers, some 3D and some flat. Sell me something... don't make me guess and risk Judge-wrath for something too tall or too flat.
...yeah, some people HAVE purchased objective markers from Palladerp Books. They paid for them years ago. They don't have them yet, and I'm sure they're 98% of the way to being delivered, but nobody has even seen a picture of one yet.
You do yourself no favors by insulting people just because they disagree with you. It only goes to prove my point how ridiculous the griping has become.
"At this point, even as the earliest person to prove him wrong"
You didn't prove me wrong, you found a picture of a game of X-Wing. That doesn't nullify my greater point.
Well, belittling of each other is not fair, that should be reserved for our negativity of Palladium!!!
In seriousness, their operational comfort zone is North America.
I just cannot see them going into discussions with a major distributor overseas and trying to get them to flog their stuff (in any convincing way).
I suspect that not showing in a UK convention is only an indication of how much effort PB is willing to expend, which is not much (saved it all for the dice bag...).
Look around and you will see the majority of the marketing is by us, the backers, showing off what we built, cool things we do and like with author credits; PB tries to claim the fame as their own. <edit> Mind you, the kickstarter comments page is a nasty piece of work... if I was a distributor I would have concerns looking at that thing.
They are the IP holders, so even though I KNOW I could do a better job of managing what they are facing, we have to sit idly by (unwanted, unloved) and hope some progress happens, usually spurred on as the money starts getting low.
I think I used my quota of negativity for the day... POSITIVE thing to say is YES those links are awesome for inspiration, I am still stuck on my block painting and washes so I have nothing cool to report.
I see it as kind of a mixed thing. Like much of their communication, they kind of paint themselves into a corner with all the talk about RRT being 'omg the biggest thing evar!'
If it's truly that huge, if it's selling so strongly, if it's their bread and butter and is to have a truly global presence, then that's the kind of thing one would expect; to have a global presence. Even if it's not them personally (as noted, many companies large and small alike don't attend in person).
But even when accounting for the shipping delay, boxes were available online nearly half a year ago. Boxes have been at local retailers (to the con that is) for months, whether Palladium was 'grr so angry' about it or not. So surely this super duper smash hit should've had some presence, shouldn't it? Some expansions for sale if they're truly selling like hotcakes? Some demos or a display army from a fan simply beaming with pride over their VT's and Battlepods?
Is it indicative that the sky has, in fact, fallen? No. And as a critical voice, I don't expect it to be a figurative smoking gun.
But it is another piece in the pile of things where reality and what they say don't quite match up.
Such is the problem with their particular style of communication; everything is absolutely amazing until it isn't. They should be believed because they're super serious but the moment it's proven untrue or impossible, it's not their fault, there are all these mitigating/extenuating factors, you see. Their word is simultaneously their bond and utterly worthless, and the 'cultists' (not you, Nate8) will use both sides in the same defense of their business practices.
Which makes the mockery simultaneously poking fun and exasperation both with the company and their... ah, rather rabid fanbase.
Frankly at this point even I tire of it sometimes. They simply make it too easy.
Edit: Like, we can probably pretty accurately detail how Gencon is going to go for them, 3 months out from it.
It will be amazing! Every fan was super excited! The booth was constantly packed and they sold just tons of books and expansions and woah so many cores! The demos were non-stop and the tournament went really well with *insert players here*.
Sadly there won't be many (or any) pics aside from those that fans provide themselves, and any reports of their booth not being a buzzing hive of activity will be dismissed as 'haters gonna hate'. Wave Two prototypes will be on display again. They'll probably have more Max/Miriya figures for sale, and possibly something else new. Like a bag for dice bags, or a figure bag (not Battlefoam, think more literally) or some gak. The True Fans will eat it up. The rest of us will roll our eyes.
I mean, their updates and newsletters have been copy-paste heavy for years now.
It should be no surprise that the mockery is now standardized to a 'wacky mad-libs' level as well.
PB has been made aware of concerns with the objectives and this is the response....
"Palladium will be supplying the convoy vehicles should an individual not be able to get 2 of something that would pass (like the Recovery Pod). This was announced in the weekly update.
And strait up poker chips can be used for objective markers."
As for the fighters I did make them aware of the height restrictions and to consider them.
I can imagine some wargamer looking to try something new. They hear about Robotech RPG Tactics and goes to the Net to find out more. Guess what they find!
After reading this and the Heavy Gear threads I feel like GW is the most beloved game company on the planet!
Nomeny wrote: You didn't pay for it though. You contributed a certain amount of money to a kickstarter; kickstarters aren't pre-orders.
They are required to follow through on their end of the deal. If handing money to someone to make something that they are required to deliver to you is not a pre-order than I don't know what is.
Just looked at the armoured VT and had a bad thought, just how many little extra parts is all those missiles, hatches etc going to add to the piece count.
Of course we may only get a version with everything closed up.
Swabby wrote: Each missile has to be at least three pieces to retain all that detail!
My mouth is a waterballoon of pent up anticipation!
Plus it will only be an overlay kit: you will have to attach it to the battleoid veritech "each sold separately!"
I actually doubt that, but in the back of my mind I am beginning to get nervous...
Swabby wrote: Each missile has to be at least three pieces to retain all that detail!
My mouth is a waterballoon of pent up anticipation!
Plus it will only be an overlay kit: you will have to attach it to the battleoid veritech "each sold separately!"
I actually doubt that, but in the back of my mind I am beginning to get nervous...
I wouldn't be so sure. The way the Jettison rules are talked about in the POH Tournament Rules, it opens that up as a possibility. As it'll also cut down significantly on time, as they only need to design and cast the add-ons, I wouldn't completely write it off. And it'd fit four sets on one sprue. Throw in two Battleoid Sprues, and that's the box done. It'd be more difficult for the Super Valks, but that's not impossible either.
Speaking of the POH Rules, Forar pointed this out over on the PB Forums. With the Destroid replacement condition on some tables, that's looking to be an auto-loss for any Malcontent army forced to fight on those tables, unless there has been some significant changes from the Update 112 Malcontent Lists. Of the 8 Ground Core Squads, only 4 are fieldable using Wave 1. None of those are legal (and only 2 of the remaining 4) on a "space table". Of the 4 Aerial Core, one is both usable and legal in Wave 1, but ONLY if you own the Miriya Limited Edition. The only way to have a legal army, is to own two Miriya.
I very much doubt PB will model it separately, we've seen the part breakout for the Jotun (an armored variant) and the add-on armor is modeled as part of the miniature instead of separately.
From pb by James laflame
From Wayne yesterday on the Official Palladium Facebook Page after myself and another person made comments on the last update in regards to the the fact 5 weeks since the last update is unacceptable
"Wayne Smith I'm sorry about that, guys. I know it's been too long. I've been trying to put together an update, just keep getting pulled in too many other directions.
Like · Yesterday at 2:36pm"
Yay! Another apology. I'll just file that one with the other two dozen about the same thing that they just apparently can never learn to do for more than a few weeks at a time. Dice bags don't design themselves, people!
Forar wrote: Busy or not, after 5 weeks (and 8'ish of teasing something BIG), they'd fething well better have something good to say.
Not even a hint they'd reveal it at the open house, but such a feat would require intelligence and timing.
Yeah, the next update will be "Oops, sorry for the five weeks. We did have something big planned, but we got super busy and forgot what it was because we weren't working on it. Oh - look, squirrel."
I wish I could march the attorney general into their office and make them give an accounting of where the money went, and what the status of each item was. Maybe I'm better off not knowing, though.
Nomeny wrote: You didn't pay for it though. You contributed a certain amount of money to a kickstarter; kickstarters aren't pre-orders.
Not so much of an argument when you're an established company instead of a lone entrepeneur who can't get regular financing, when you run a post-KS pledge manager (for which everyone had to pass) and when the terms of the KS establish an obligation to follow through.
So yeah, it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck. Naming it an arglebargle instead doesn't change its meaning.
Well, I actually got my "your stuff has been sent" message just this morning.
I have trouble believing it's finally over, but I guess I don't have the box in my hands yet...
Nomeny wrote: You didn't pay for it though. You contributed a certain amount of money to a kickstarter; kickstarters aren't pre-orders.
Not so much of an argument when you're an established company instead of a lone entrepeneur who can't get regular financing, when you run a post-KS pledge manager (for which everyone had to pass) and when the terms of the KS establish an obligation to follow through.
So yeah, it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck. Naming it an arglebargle instead doesn't change its meaning.
I think that was less a commentary on the nature of Kickstarter and more a jab at some of the gak Johnny has been giving various people in this thread over the last year or so.
It's sort of funny to see it turned around, but in the end we're all stuck waiting for Palladium to decide that typing up a bit of info is worth prioritizing.
HudsonD wrote: I have trouble believing it's finally over...
Did you only get a core set? Because if not, I've got bad news...
HudsonD wrote: Well, I actually got my "your stuff has been sent" message just this morning.
I have trouble believing it's finally over, but I guess I don't have the box in my hands yet...
Did you get a first contact pledge? If so, I'm sorry you had to wait 8-9 months to have your's shipped from the time the core boxes started going out. The good news is that you'll soon have the box arrive so it can likely sit next to some other unnamed anime robots unused on the shelf.
We have been working away on a number of RRT items. So much more to announce. It’s coming."
Yeah, right! So's Christmas/2061/The day Satan skates to work!
I have just wasted more time than it would have taken to put out a brief "Well, these are the things we are working on, guys. Expect more detail in a few weeks.". If they have so much to announce, why not tell us ONE SINGLE THING!
We have been working away on a number of RRT items. So much more to announce. It’s coming."
Yeah, right! So's Christmas/2061/The day Satan skates to work!
I have just wasted more time than it would have taken to put out a brief "Well, these are the things we are working on, guys. Expect more detail in a few weeks.". If they have so much to announce, why not tell us ONE SINGLE THING!
B-B-Because it must be THE BESTEST® UPDATE EVER™! They can only whet your appetite with vague speculation and empty promises. Details leaked early might make it only a great or fantastic Update, and that's just not acceptable. It's gotta be the bestest® work they've ever done, or it's just utter crap. And that means they'll have let down you, their fan. Who look upon them like man of old looked upon the gods. They do not take this responsibility lightly.
Or.... the Emperor has no clothes.
The fact that the latest Murmur explaining that they're too busy to Update us, is larger in word count than seven of the eight Updates this year (and if you extract the apology and explanation for delay in the 14th Jan one, all eight), is probably lost on them. But either way, we'll know "soon". I mean, they said it's coming! Aren't you excited?
It's best to not put any stock into any he says without it being verified by an independent third party source like pics or a downloadable court filing.
"I Backed Palladium Books Robotech RRT Kickstarter.
.
.
.
.
.
And all I got was this lousy decal sheet*
*1 year later than promised, no models to stick them on, but what the hey, it's all fantastically mouth-watering, and really easy to put the minimal part count, incredibly detailed models together in moments, and EVERYONE's playing these days.
What do you mean, you haven't heard of it? Sheesh, apothetic bloody planet, I don't know."
I am practically swimming in the darn product and have lost steam (still like how they look, just so much more work than they need to be).
What few games I have got in, people keep trying to "house rule" the heck out of it... first play a couple times, THEN change from an informed viewpoint.
Though making the rules "Aircraft" don't block line of sight, Roll 50% for "roll with impact" to pass, Roll for each missile (not just volley) with anti-missile systems seems to have made it more fun.
I seem to be confusing people because I am one of few that actually has a full UEDF force to play with rather than just pods.
All I can say is adding missile pods to a scout group is nasty in the extreme to face and my UEDF definitely needs to keep their distance from those pod swarms.
At least a few models have been shifted to Battletech for some giggles and look very nice for my "5th Lyran Guard".
I have to take-on "Word of Blake" and "Kurita" forces during the "Jihad" time of Battletech: I have some 60-odd models while the other guys have some 700 each... going to see more stomping mech action in a 30 year old game than a "new" one.
Sounding like the kid in "Better off dead" who says "I want my two dollars."... I want my Wave 2!!!
Talizvar wrote: I am practically swimming in the darn product and have lost steam (still like how they look, just so much more work than they need to be).
What few games I have got in, people keep trying to "house rule" the heck out of it... first play a couple times, THEN change from an informed viewpoint.
Though making the rules "Aircraft" don't block line of sight, Roll 50% for "roll with impact" to pass, Roll for each missile (not just volley) with anti-missile systems seems to have made it more fun.
I seem to be confusing people because I am one of few that actually has a full UEDF force to play with rather than just pods.
All I can say is adding missile pods to a scout group is nasty in the extreme to face and my UEDF definitely needs to keep their distance from those pod swarms.
After the first real (and to my knowledge only one so far) tourney's faction turnout, are you really surprised that you're one of the few with a full UEDF force? As for the house rule part, are the folks there active on robotech tactics internet sites? Most gamers I know aren't and rarely follow forums such as this daily or even weekly. I'd be curious to find out if the impetus to house rule certain things is spontaneous for them or just following the "angry minority" internet crowd.
warboss wrote: After the first real (and to my knowledge only one so far) tourney's faction turnout, are you really surprised that you're one of the few with a full UEDF force?
Hehe... It does take a certain amount of masochism to put together 3 squads of Veritechs (36 models for "12" playable ones)
As for the house rule part, are the folks there active on robotech tactics internet sites? Most gamers I know aren't and rarely follow forums such as this daily or even weekly. I'd be curious to find out if the impetus to house rule certain things is spontaneous for them or just following the "angry minority" internet crowd.
Actually these were rather experienced gamers with a large experience base of multiple games (a couple more years than me), they were not really following the forums = spontaneous want for change.
I am the only one that does follow the forums and suggested nothing; my rule is you play 3 games "straight-up" and then you can mess around.
It IS funny, after a few games it becomes rather obvious where some rules you leave alone and others just beg for a change.
I would be tempted to compare notes with anyone that got-in more than 3(!!) games.
The rules are serviceable, do a decent enough job, just need a little tweaking for more fun and the oddly inappropriate word "realism" within the canon of the Robotech TV show.
There are a few "cheat sheets" out there but I think I will refine my own with the intent of having a contained game system like a board game where you can take it from no knowledge to up and running in some 15 minutes. I think this is the only way I will get games in besides my indulgent friends.
I do agree that you should play some games before changing the rules significantly although I would add that some things are just so bad that you can spot the troublesome ones to test with just a single reading let alone a game if you're an experienced gamer who doesn't have your own blood, sweat, and tears or a financial stake invested in the game. I've got a few for robotech that I've described ad naseum for now officially years here but I've to meet your quota to discuss them with you although I'm close.. only 3 games to go!
It is interesting to note that the average joes in your neck of the woods came up with some stuff on their own. What do they want to change? Does it jive with the stuff brought up here years ago by myself and others prior to actual gameplay and the release of the rules?
warboss wrote: I do agree that you should play some games before changing the rules significantly although I would add that some things are just so bad that you can spot the troublesome ones to test with just a single reading let alone a game if you're an experienced gamer who doesn't have your own blood, sweat, and tears or a financial stake invested in the game. I've got a few for robotech that I've described ad naseum for now officially years here but I've to meet your quota to discuss them with you although I'm close.. only 3 games to go!
It is interesting to note that the average joes in your neck of the woods came up with some stuff on their own. What do they want to change? Does it jive with the stuff brought up here years ago by myself and others prior to actual gameplay and the release of the rules?
On this I agree, I have people bitching about rules that have NEVER played and then enjoy it when they do. I've also made suggestions on a few changes but then have played them out, in more than a few ways first. I think a Blast fix should be coming soon. Feel free to post what else you feel should change and I can see if I can get the group to playtest any suggestions. We are working with PB to get any changes tested, approved and accepted as cannon.
The change to the VF from 8 LRM's to 6 is one example.
Mike1975 wrote: On this I agree, I have people bitching about rules that have NEVER played and then enjoy it when they do.
I would add though that it is reasonable to bitch about CERTAIN ridiculous rules and still enjoy the overall game despite them. They're not mutually exclusive. Thanks for the offer but I don't have any new things to bitch about beyond the ones I spotted years ago. If I ever get a game going and notice more, I'll be sure to whine here.
warboss wrote: It is interesting to note that the average joes in your neck of the woods came up with some stuff on their own. What do they want to change? Does it jive with the stuff brought up here years ago by myself and others prior to actual gameplay and the release of the rules?
Valid question.
Requires a thoughtful answer.
I did make some notes (not on-hand at the moment), will review, check with the history you mentioned and see where that goes.
Any links to your viewpoints would be much appreciated because I have either forgotten or missed them.
Easily abusable "center" LOS, buildings are too fragile, inability to make vermillion squadron ever, VF-1J missing as upgrade card for the (now pointless) skimish rules, zentraedi rockettes kicking chorus line, blast missiles are too powerful, anti-missile being all or nothing (instead of shooting down a variable amount of missiles depending on your roll), close combat and aircraft shennanigans (although I think someone here mentioned a ruling on that for the open house) come to mind. I know there are more (and admittedly the above is a mix of potential issues, mistakes, and preferences) but I can't recall them at the moment.
Cylinder like the oft quoted Battletech OR center body mass = I lean toward the Battletech means, the bases make it easy (bit clunky I know)
, buildings are too fragile
Agreed, I found the 4X MDC kicked around seemed about right, after throwing some templates around they lasted long enough.
, inability to make vermillion squadron ever
That will not do, if you cannot recreate the various things going on in the source material: what is the point?
, VF-1J missing as upgrade card for the (now pointless) skimish rules
Again pointless if you cannot re-play source material
, zentraedi rockettes kicking chorus line
Having been on the receiving end of that... it is indescribably nasty. I have been tempted to say it is not possible for more than 4 models to engage in hand to hand with one enemy.
, blast missiles are too powerful,
For each target to be able to try to shoot down that missile, I am not agreeing with being too powerful (only got to feel the wrong end of blast once...)
anti-missile being all or nothing (instead of shooting down a variable amount of missiles depending on your roll)
Yeah, we actually made it where you roll for each individual missile to shoot it down rather than one roll for the whole volley
, close combat and aircraft shennanigans (although I think someone here mentioned a ruling on that for the open house) come to mind.
Some were pushing for flying units to be able to hit others. My first instinct is to make it harder, some to hit penalty. I would not want to disallow it since we have seen it on the screen, just not ideal.
I know there are more (and admittedly the above is a mix of potential issues, mistakes, and preferences) but I can't recall them at the moment.
I think "fast movers" should also receive the same defensive bonus as gerwalks: they are harder to hit for other reasons BUT get a +1 to hit "Aircraft".
I think anything with "aircraft" rules should not block line of sight.
I think "roll with impact" is too powerful, roll a 4+ for each hit (still looking at a possible piloting skill check) from that weapon system's single attack (each missile in volley: see above) to halve the damage (still only one command point). Rather than the "auto succeed" it added more fun/drama... we liked it.
Thinking instead of "inescapable" for a 4 missile volley, +1 to hit for each missile in that volley of 4 (to give incentive to expend the 4 on one target).
There is a few nagging bits about stealing initiative that is irritating but a little more love / detail to the missile ballet I think is in order.
I need to see a bit more hand to hand and the recovery pod to get into some of the details of units available.
Well, getting there, still hate the mitt-full of cards, I know Mike has made his improved version but I would like to scan and mix and match to keep to the original format.
Also it is HIGHLY unfair to expect a 40+ person to read that fine print for all the optional weapons on the unit cards without some serious reading glasses.
I know, good practice for the tiny detail painting... I will bring my jeweler's visor, my wife loves it when I wear that.
Are those the ones you personally came up with or the group decided to change that you didn't agree with? Are the things you agreed with already suggested by the group or completely different? I know it's esoteric but I'm curious if my own pet peeves extend beyond the vocal minority (at least according to the gencon feth all of you poll 2014). Or is the later list the ones your group came up (that you don't agree with changing till 3 games in)?
I can't say with any certainty (again, zero actual games here) but I suspect the fast movers defense bonus is being able to move fast enough to simply be out of range of most of their own targets by the end of their double movement meaning that they can't be hit at all by lots of stuff they themselves could initially hit. I'd be hesitant to give them the +1 as I think that is supposed to be for sheer maneuverability that gerwalks have (similar to harriers "viffing"). Think US WW2 pacific tactics versus Japenses zeroes... strafing, don't get in dogfights. That does kind of match what happens in the show... when the veritechs need to make super tight turns, they just change modes usually (but not always.. anime after all). I agree though at least in theory with the roll and anti-missile feeling better as a one dice per missile roll. I'd probably keep the inescapable though with the caveat that you will some of the time reduce the number inbound to below 4 and then be able to possibly dodge/roll... very anime-ish.
As for the jeweler's visor, maybe the wife keeps hoping someday you'll start working on a big diamond for her nstead of toy soldiers for yourself!
Unless I am misinterpreting the 4 missile inescapable thing, it is hits, not missiles fired. So in order for a missile volley to be inescapable, you need to "hit" with a volley of 4+ missiles, not just shoot 4 at a guy.
warboss wrote: Are those the ones you personally came up with or the group decided to change that you didn't agree with? Are the things you agreed with already suggested by the group or completely different? I know it's esoteric but I'm curious if my own pet peeves extend beyond the vocal minority (at least according to the gencon feth all of you poll 2014). Or is the later list the ones your group came up (that you don't agree with changing till 3 games in)?
Group observations: individual missile rolls rather than rolling for the volley, 4 "hits" become inescapable (decides then we dodge or anti-missile), roll for "roll with impact", +1 defense for aircraft, LOS we went by the base like a cylinder, after a couple swarm melees 4 per model became max, Aircraft does not block line of sight.
I can't say with any certainty (again, zero actual games here) but I suspect the fast movers defense bonus is being able to move fast enough to simply be out of range of most of their own targets by the end of their double movement meaning that they can't be hit at all by lots of stuff they themselves could initially hit. I'd be hesitant to give them the +1 as I think that is supposed to be for sheer maneuverability that gerwalks have (similar to harriers "viffing"). Think US WW2 pacific tactics versus Japenses zeroes... strafing, don't get in dogfights. That does kind of match what happens in the show... when the veritechs need to make super tight turns, they just change modes usually (but not always.. anime after all).
We found that as a jet fighter, initial turn, linear move, then with turbo at the end, lining things up well was tricky and with only one weapon's fire you almost always pick missiles.
You would almost always want to use gerwalk for defense and weapons options when at a mid-range and battloid for a 24" to 12" stand-off distance.
It just adds that little bit more survivability, add the not blocking line of sight AND especially not getting snagged by the pod "kickline" is a motivator.
I agree though at least in theory with the roll and anti-missile feeling better as a one dice per missile roll. I'd probably keep the inescapable though with the caveat that you will some of the time reduce the number inbound to below 4 and then be able to possibly dodge/roll... very anime-ish.
We did find it was more fun and anime-ish as you frantically try to reduce the incoming missiles... it does cause you to sweat a little... good fun.
As for the jeweler's visor, maybe the wife keeps hoping someday you'll start working on a big diamond for her nstead of toy soldiers for yourself!
I was being a bit sarcastic on this topic... she HATES the thing when she sees it on me she looks pained and sees this:
That pic... it's like you hacked my webcam and stole my dakka posting face, you thief! If I wasn't a newly minted stoic super dimensional captain, I'd steal it back and make it my avatar pic!
So are you in agreement with the changes or just miffed that they came too early? You seem from the last few posts to be supportive of them (and I agree with most, same caveat as above) but your initial post on the subject made it seem (and maybe I'm reading too much into it) that you didn't and you were upset that they were trying to institute them before giving the game a fair 3 try shake.
If I ever end up actually playing this, I'll likely be doing demo only games just like I did a few years back with Heavy Gear which means that I'll be doing what USED TO BE the skirmish rules. I'll leave it to mike and others to comment with any certainty but the rolling for each missile and then for each anti-missile laser shot (which are changes I like) might slow down the game alot when fielding dozens of minis per side. At the <12 that I'm hoping/planning/wishing to someday do, it won't be an issue.
I am in agreement with many issues and some of the proposed fixes outlined.
Just a pet peeve of mine where people are not giving the game a chance playing the rules as written first. Yep, was getting upset.
Sometimes a "strange" rule is proven to be good because of given units or situations to prevent broken elements of the game.
When rules are changed on the fly, I can no longer comment on the actual game rules since many may not have been followed and game balance may have been thrown off.
So when your opponent is chomping at the bit to change things, I have to keep saying "play by the rules, make notes of what you want to change and it will happen but not now."
If I do not get in at least 3 games of the straight-up game I fall into Mike's difficulties of offering "unofficial" experiences and rules into the mix which can make the purists light up the torches and fetch the pitchforks.
<edit> I felt it did not slow the game down much for the individual missile rolls: you just throw more dice at once which within reason is a good thing.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
megatrons2nd wrote: Unless I am misinterpreting the 4 missile inescapable thing, it is hits, not missiles fired. So in order for a missile volley to be inescapable, you need to "hit" with a volley of 4+ missiles, not just shoot 4 at a guy.
In the rules as written (as best I understand) it needs to be a volley of 4 or more to be inescapable.
You roll once for the entire volley to hit so it is an all or nothing approach.
This is most likely for the models with the Volley "X" rule to commit a few more missiles than one here or there.
For the alternate rules changes I am looking at for my group we would do it as follows:
Spoiler:
Unit fires missiles, say a volley of 6.
They roll to hit (gunnery vs target defense and whatever modifiers).
4 missiles hit! Since four hit they are inescapable so the target can only use anti-missile fire.
Now the target is paranoid, decides to spend a command point to fire a main weapon (6's to hit) as well as the anti-missile system (5+ to hit).
To be fancy, the target rolls two sets of four dice of different colors to shoot at the 4 missiles (did not want to roll each defense system one missile at a time, just pick out your successes: the more you shoot, the better your odds... imagining shooting for all he is worth against the swarm of missiles)..
Anti-missile got two, 5+ hits and the gun rolled one 6 for another hit.
Target has one missile sneak in for 8 points.
Target spends a command point to roll with impact (normally automatically half damage).
We did a straight up 50/50 chance before (4+ success d6). (We were figuring maybe 8+ (base for 2d6) minus the piloting skill so a pod has 50/50 but better pilots dodge better...)
Target (a pod) rolls 7+ and has one point remaining and lives to fight another day!
Note, this last bit may not work well due to 2d6... usually better one die each for ease of rolling... unless you like drawing out the half damage drama.
Average=7
(Also obtainable as the opposite sides of a D6 should always add up to 7 [6+1, 5+2, 4+3])
Actually, there's no way of getting a 50/50 on a linear 2d6. 7+ is ~42%, 8+ is ~58%. So, Talizvar was giving a slight penalty to the base pods, but allowed more elite pilots to balance that out a little, whereas normally it's all vanilla 50%. Not sure what the theoretical max is, or how easy it is to get +1 PIL (No books yet).
Though it seems like it's a moot point, as Talizvar seemed to thing 2d6 was cumbersome.
Thanks guys, I don't mind your questioning the thought process on my interpretation of the actual rules or the "logic" of possible house rules.
I really want to find a way to include the piloting skill into the "roll with impact" since I figure it is a piloting skill based save at least by description.
Though, following that same reasoning, the anti-missile fire should be helped by gunnery... <sigh> sometimes it may be best to let it go.
My main push for this is not just a little more missile excitement but also to make the heroes in the game a bit more ... heroic.
We did not like the "sure thing" aspect of roll with impact hence the roll... so the 4+ or maybe a 3+ instead?
The 4+ really made it a hard choice sometimes to expend that command point (is it worth it? Odds may be low to survive anyway...).
The two dice method gives enough wiggle room to include pilot and gunnery skills but matching them in sets would just get irritating.
I need a few sets of those clear dice with a die inside them:
Now don't get into the topic if they have some kind of bias to them... (Or the meme: "Yo Dawg: We put dice in your dice so you can roll dice while rolling dice!!)
I find if you are faced with a tough choice in a game, that rule tends to be a win.
The 4 missile no-dodge I happen to like to some degree since you are less tempted to split the missiles across multiple targets and have to spam the one target, especially if they have a good piloting skill.
Anyone who got some game time in: what rules are a "for sure" keep and what MUST be changed I would love to hear if not stated recently... I think there is a different thread for this...
On-topic: the game is fun.
I am used to 40k so this is a piece of cake for clarity of rules.
Too bad about the freaking gazillion UEDF parts, but that is all water under the bridge. I got over that days ago...
It is now that time folks: What... is... happening... with... WAVE 2!!!!!
What if the roll requires a 4+ and only spends the cp if you succeed. That way you're not hemorrhaging cp for nothing but neither is it a sure thing. That seems to be a nice middle ground. Also, I can't recall; does choosing to roll preclude you from dodging or something else defensive?
warboss wrote: What if the roll requires a 4+ and only spends the cp if you succeed.
We were using one CP to be able to roll for all missiles in the volley with the house rule.
So if I get one success out of 4 and it is not enough to save me, do I still have to spend it?
If I sucked and all rolls failed it may sooth things a bit... (I kind of like it for some reason...)
Also, I can't recall; does choosing to roll preclude you from dodging or something else defensive?
Yes, I think (you are now making me doubt myself), you can anti-missile fire OR dodge but you cannot do both.
Roll with impact can still happen either way unless it has the "Overwhelming" (I think) rule.
Sucks not having the book immediately handy but good test of what I know... need to differentiate quoting from memory vs having reference material in front of me.
Instead of rolling 2d6, couldn't you still use 1d6 + 1/2 piloting skill? Up the base number you need to succeed so adding in a Pod's piloting skill would match what you need in the standard rules?
Another weekly update from Palladium hit my inbox and it is just bursting at the virtual seams with new info on RRPGT after all these weeks of waiting. I don't want to bombard you all with it in one go so I've spoilered it below to prevent massive page down tapping. The following is the massive update on 5,000 folks missing stuff.
Spoiler:
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™ We have never stopped working on a number of RRT items and I hope to have some exciting news to announce very soon. It’s coming.
In comparison, his missing doodles from before most of us were born or out of diapers got this much coverage in the update.
Spoiler:
Please help me recover my artwork A substantial part of my art collection has gone missing. Among what’s gone is a huge slice of original work from my own art career – from my high school and college days to A+Plus comic book pages, Justice Machine and Cobalt Blue colored comic pages, Game Merchant, the Detroit Gaming Center, Judges Guild, and some of the early artwork I did for Palladium Books, FASA (Traveller), Topps bubblegum cards, and other companies. Most of the missing work is from the 1970s-1980s.
Other original art, prints and items are also missing (Anime cels, Robotech® stuff, FernGully animation cel on master backgrounds, A+Plus comics, books, etc.), but it is MY ARTWORK and the artwork of my brother and friends from my youth that I want back most. This is a personal and devastating loss. I feel truly sick about this loss and I hope you can help me. I hope that by letting you – our fans – know, I’m putting thousands of eyeballs out there watching for these items to go up online or appear in comic book stores, especially in the Michigan and Ohio areas. I have friends who will keep an eye out at the Novi Motor City Comic Con, and we’ll be scanning the web on a regular basis, but having thousands of other people keeping an eye out in the weeks and months ahead only improves my chances of recovering something. I hope.
PLEASE, if you see any of the art or items that sound like they might be mine, please contact me at Palladium Books by email: tipster@palladiumbooks.com and send me a link to the site/page/person hosting the “suspect” items, or call by telephone: 734-721-2903. I’m not as likely to see Private Messages or Facebook messages, or Help Desk messages, but you can use them too. I’ll also be calling around to local comic book shops. Retailers, please be vigilant and call me if these items surface. Thanks.
I’m hoping that by letting you know about some of the most identifiable items I may be able to recover some of them. Fingers crossed.
Below are some of the most identifiable missing items. Almost ANY ART by Kevin Siembieda from the 1960s-1980s – especially if it is dated before 1994 – could be some of the missing artwork. As you can see from this list, I seldom sold my original artwork, so if my art starts to spring up, it could be the missing items. Justice Machine #6 (Noble Comics) – watercolor pages on 8½ x 11 paper. These are high quality photocopies that were hand-painted in watercolor and Doctor Martin dyes by Kevin Siembieda. The color pages of the comic book were shot from these exact pages. Cobalt Blue #4 (Noble Comics) – watercolor pages on 8½ x 11 paper. These are high quality photocopies that were hand-painted in watercolor and Doctor Martin dyes by Kevin Siembieda. The color pages of the comic book were shot from these exact pages. Palladium Fantasy, Rifts®, RECON, Contemporary Weapons and other Art. Could be inked or pencil. The Harlequin comic book pages from A+Plus #3 by me, Kevin Siembieda. The Last Man/Paraphernalia by me and my brother (Brian Siembieda) from A+Plus #5, and any art from other issues of A+Plus. I have NEVER sold any of my A+Plus or Fanzine art or pages. ANY AND ALL ARTWORK and PAGES FROM A+PLUS AND OTHER PUBLICATIONS. Photocopies too. Nightspawn #1 and 2 – all art and keyline/paste-up pages from my Nightspawn “fanzines” from the 1970s are gone. It includes original art by me (Kevin Siembieda), Arvell Jones, Ken Kelly (yes, “the painter” Ken Kelly), Alex Marciniszyn and others. Art and keylines from my old fanzine Megaton #1 and #2. Art and keylines from my old fanzine B.S./P.S. #1. The cover to Game Merchant #1; a dragon. Ink and pencil on coquille board. Star Trek Characters drawing – a shaded pencil drawing depicting the heads of Captain Kirk, Scotty, Uruha, and Sulu, and signed by James Duhan, Nichelle Nichols, and George Takei. Dated from the 1970s (I think 1974, 1975 or 1976). Other pencil artwork by me. A+Plus Comic Books #2, #3, #4 and #5. A few of my remaining copies of issue #1, #2, and #3 are gone; several dozen copies of #4 are gone; and as many as 100 copies of #5 have gone missing. If you should see them suddenly appear, please let me know so I can investigate. Thanks. Painting of a vampire in a green suit by Alex Marciniszyn; a yellow moon and a flying bat are part of the painting. I think it is unsigned. Photocopies of pencil sketches for covers, concept artwork and pencil art before it was inked (Parkinson, Long, Ewell, and other artists). I recently unearthed a treasure trove of such items and had planned to use them as illustrations in a book about the history of Palladium Books. All missing. REMEMBER, almost any art by me, Kevin Siembieda, that is comic book style or from before 1994 could be some of the missing art.
A Public Appeal to those Responsible – or – to anyone who might know about this: I am NOT looking to prosecute the individual or individuals responsible. I just want to get a big part of my life back! Please. I’m probably foolishly praying that perhaps the person responsible or someone who knows them will see this public appeal and find it in their heart to return these precious works to me. Just drop them off inside the Palladium office foyer. Or outside the front or side door, pound loudly and leave. NO ONE will question or hassle you! I promise. It’s not a trap. Please return these items. Our address is 39074 Webb Court, Westland, MI 48185. Failing that, please, if anyone knows anything about this matter or has seen the artwork, please contact me so that I might recover any of it. Thank you for your help.
I'm just glad that he values the missing $700,000 USD worth of Robotech items that we're waiting for now going on two years so much compared to the sketch he did of the Star Trek TOS cast 30 years ago so that the later got a higher word count than the former.
Like I said, now it's his stuff missing and not that of 5,000+ backers so he can set up a special email. I bet you he'll respond almost instantly to emails about his missing doodles unlike queries about where the feth 2/3 of our sculpts and almost half of our minis are.
I'd say that if they don't finally cough up something about Wave 2 by next weekend (having a rapt audience of Fan Friends on board to gush and coo and high five them being something I can't see them passing up), we might actually have a sign that there's serious trouble afoot. (like, moreso than usual, that is)
Spending nearly 3 months teasing an info dump and letting that kind of opportunity pass them by would be highly out of character.
After that, it might just be time to start believing the conspiracy theories about them being broke (or on the verge of it). And y'know what? At this point if they had to eat a gak sandwich and face some consequences of their terrible business practices, I might be willing to accept that trade off.
Oh, and something funny. Y'know how they never seem to ever participate in the comments? Like, it's literally been 10 months since they last said anything? That counter can be reset.
Creator Palladium Books 1 day ago
@Howard Browning: We are not going to deny you or anyone else their rewards. Rest of World packages have been shipping for weeks now and continue to do so. That you have not yet received yours is simply luck of the draw, and not the result of a plan to rob anyone. I'm am very sorry for how long it is taking to get them all shipped, let alone the time it is taking to get Wave Two manufactured and shipped.
So apparently they do read the comments and will respond.
You just have to push the right button to make it happen.
Like I said on KS, the "button" that was questioned wasn't because Howard was missing his stuff and wanted a refund. The "button" was that Howard questioned their license to sell in Asia.
After years of successfully flogging their first installment PB announces Crisis of Treachery II
Spoiler:
Please help me recover my artwork
A substantial part of my art collection has gone missing. Among what’s gone is a huge slice of original work from my own art career – from my high school and college days to A+Plus comic book pages, Justice Machine and Cobalt Blue colored comic pages, Game Merchant, the Detroit Gaming Center, Judges Guild, and some of the early artwork I did for Palladium Books, FASA (Traveller), Topps bubblegum cards, and other companies. Most of the missing work is from the 1970s-1980s.
Other original art, prints and items are also missing (Anime cels, Robotech® stuff, FernGully animation cel on master backgrounds, A+Plus comics, books, etc.), but it is MY ARTWORK and the artwork of my brother and friends from my youth that I want back most. This is a personal and devastating loss. I feel truly sick about this loss and I hope you can help me. I hope that by letting you – our fans – know, I’m putting thousands of eyeballs out there watching for these items to go up online or appear in comic book stores, especially in the Michigan and Ohio areas. I have friends who will keep an eye out at the Novi Motor City Comic Con, and we’ll be scanning the web on a regular basis, but having thousands of other people keeping an eye out in the weeks and months ahead only improves my chances of recovering something. I hope.
PLEASE, if you see any of the art or items that sound like they might be mine, please contact me at Palladium Books by email: tipster@palladiumbooks.com and send me a link to the site/page/person hosting the “suspect” items, or call by telephone: 734-721-2903. I’m not as likely to see Private Messages or Facebook messages, or Help Desk messages, but you can use them too. I’ll also be calling around to local comic book shops. Retailers, please be vigilant and call me if these items surface. Thanks.
I’m hoping that by letting you know about some of the most identifiable items I may be able to recover some of them. Fingers crossed.
Below are some of the most identifiable missing items.
Almost ANY ART by Kevin Siembieda from the 1960s-1980s – especially if it is dated before 1994 – could be some of the missing artwork. As you can see from this list, I seldom sold my original artwork, so if my art starts to spring up, it could be the missing items.
Justice Machine #6 (Noble Comics) – watercolor pages on 8½ x 11 paper. These are high quality photocopies that were hand-painted in watercolor and Doctor Martin dyes by Kevin Siembieda. The color pages of the comic book were shot from these exact pages.
Cobalt Blue #4 (Noble Comics) – watercolor pages on 8½ x 11 paper. These are high quality photocopies that were hand-painted in watercolor and Doctor Martin dyes by Kevin Siembieda. The color pages of the comic book were shot from these exact pages.
Palladium Fantasy, Rifts®, RECON, Contemporary Weapons and other Art. Could be inked or pencil.
The Harlequin comic book pages from A+Plus #3 by me, Kevin Siembieda.
The Last Man/Paraphernalia by me and my brother (Brian Siembieda) from A+Plus #5, and any art from other issues of A+Plus. I have NEVER sold any of my A+Plus or Fanzine art or pages.
ANY AND ALL ARTWORK and PAGES FROM A+PLUS AND OTHER PUBLICATIONS. Photocopies too.
Nightspawn #1 and 2 – all art and keyline/paste-up pages from my Nightspawn “fanzines” from the 1970s are gone. It includes original art by me (Kevin Siembieda), Arvell Jones, Ken Kelly (yes, “the painter” Ken Kelly), Alex Marciniszyn and others.
Art and keylines from my old fanzine Megaton #1 and #2.
Art and keylines from my old fanzine B.S./P.S. #1.
The cover to Game Merchant #1; a dragon. Ink and pencil on coquille board.
Star Trek Characters drawing – a shaded pencil drawing depicting the heads of Captain Kirk, Scotty, Uruha, and Sulu, and signed by James Duhan, Nichelle Nichols, and George Takei. Dated from the 1970s (I think 1974, 1975 or 1976). Other pencil artwork by me.
A+Plus Comic Books #2, #3, #4 and #5. A few of my remaining copies of issue #1, #2, and #3 are gone; several dozen copies of #4 are gone; and as many as 100 copies of #5 have gone missing. If you should see them suddenly appear, please let me know so I can investigate. Thanks.
Painting of a vampire in a green suit by Alex Marciniszyn; a yellow moon and a flying bat are part of the painting. I think it is unsigned.
Photocopies of pencil sketches for covers, concept artwork and pencil art before it was inked (Parkinson, Long, Ewell, and other artists). I recently unearthed a treasure trove of such items and had planned to use them as illustrations in a book about the history of Palladium Books. All missing.
REMEMBER, almost any art by me, Kevin Siembieda, that is comic book style or from before 1994 could be some of the missing art.
A Public Appeal to those Responsible – or – to anyone who might know about this: I am NOT looking to prosecute the individual or individuals responsible. I just want to get a big part of my life back! Please. I’m probably foolishly praying that perhaps the person responsible or someone who knows them will see this public appeal and find it in their heart to return these precious works to me. Just drop them off inside the Palladium office foyer. Or outside the front or side door, pound loudly and leave. NO ONE will question or hassle you! I promise. It’s not a trap. Please return these items. Our address is 39074 Webb Court, Westland, MI 48185. Failing that, please, if anyone knows anything about this matter or has seen the artwork, please contact me so that I might recover any of it. Thank you for your help.
warboss wrote: Another weekly update from Palladium hit my inbox and it is just bursting at the virtual seams with new info on RRPGT after all these weeks of waiting. I don't want to bombard you all with it in one go so I've spoilered it below to prevent massive page down tapping. The following is the massive update on 5,000 folks missing stuff.
Spoiler:
UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™
We have never stopped working on a number of RRT items and I hope to have some exciting news to announce very soon. It’s coming.
In comparison, his missing doodles from before most of us were born or out of diapers got this much coverage in the update.
I'm just glad that he values the missing $700,000 USD worth of Robotech items that we're waiting for now going on two years so much compared to the sketch he did of the Star Trek TOS cast 30 years ago so that the later got a higher word count than the former.
In comparison, he spent more time saying "Happy Birthday" than he did about RRT. That's probably why he learned to write an e-mail, to say Happy birthday.
Can anyone say for definate that this missing artwork is a recent event? Or is it that he has only just opened his eyes after the Crisis of Treachery (TM) and just noticed that they're missing? If the latter, we may get some news and actual progress on wave 2 and beyond, in about 7,060 days. (Just after I retire!)
By that standard, they have at least another 8 months!
Surely PB's lackadaisical approach to conveying information on this project isn't getting to you too?
:-P
I'd just like to see a sign that the stuff I split and paid for is actually going to deliver by then. That's all. I think that 2 months silence is excessive if they are going to finish production mid-October to complete delivery by mid-Jan.
Hmmm Probably just my conspiracy theory mind, but this does seem to be a lot of stuff for someone just to walk up , casuallly put in a bag and walk away. Where was it taken from and why if it happenned before did yu not take better precautions? Need money from the insurance or the loyal fans?
That aside all of a sudden KS, in the middlre of a hectic 18 hour day, can put together a long rambling mail, plus birthday greeting, but noone at PB in two months can update the KS backers or even write more than one line in the update.
Sorry mate, I laugh at you rather than sympathise, who knows it might be a disgruntled backer, holding your suff ransom in lieu of getting their stuff - hope they make you wait a couple of years with promises of its coming , homest it is.
I don't know for sure this is a new event. When the original CrisisTM ofTM TreacheryTM occurred, it also included a bunch of stolen art including his own doodles along with the original cover art and plates to reprint older 1990's rifts titles that weren't digital at all. That was supposedly one of the reasons they "embraced" digital files on drive thru rpg because they literally couldn't reprint some titles and doing a proper digital version would require work that is best spent on copy/pasting weekly updates and dice bagsTM.
If this is a new theft/crisis, I hereby nominate it the Crisis of Treacheryer. When the inevitable dastardly loss of all the robotech wave 2 items they planned to ship us happens (which will of course not affect the separately store direct sale/con sale stock of the same stuff), that will be the Crisis of Treacheriest.
Puh-lease. Everyone knows that every half-assed sequel needs to be suffixed with "Electric Bougaloo" and have extraneous colons.
So it's Crisis of Treachery II: Electric Bougaloo: Treacher Harder
And wow, that Juicer is terrible. However, unlike Kevin Long's "art" that guy at least isn't interchangeable with every other character he drew. Long's are - just switch the hair and armor and it's yet another character with a new face.
I haven't been to their page for a while, so I love that Palladium's Wiki page has been updated to note their delays on RRT - that's gold.
I guess it's time for another update to cover Crisis of Treachery II.
____
@warboss: "treacherier" doesn't work, because that presumes that there will be a third Crisis, and no more. You honestly believe that Kevin has his gak together to prevent Crisis 3 and Crisis 4?
Please note that the original "Crisis of Treasury" and the dollar amounts involved were mostly collectibles and stuff. So, while it may have sucked for Kevin, his original Data-Still-In-Box-With-The-Starfleet-Logo-On-The-Wrong-Side with a value of Infinity Billion dollars really shouldn't have affected the function of Palladium Books in the slightest.
ETA: Until a reread I didn't even realize I'd put "treasury". Paging Dr. Freud!
You can get a lot more mileage out of Crisis of Treachery if you start using DC comics naming schemes.
Just off of the top of my head:
Infinite Crisis of Treachery
The Treachery Crisis
The Crisis of Infinite Treacheries
Crisis of Final Treacheries
Final Treachery Crisis
Merijeek wrote: Puh-lease. Everyone knows that every half-assed sequel needs to be suffixed with "Electric Bougaloo" and have extraneous colons.
So it's Crisis of Treachery II: Electric Bougaloo: Treacher Harder
And wow, that Juicer is terrible. However, unlike Kevin Long's "art" that guy at least isn't interchangeable with every other character he drew. Long's are - just switch the hair and armor and it's yet another character with a new face.
Actually, Kevin Long is one of my two favorite gaming artists along with Ghislain Barbe. I'll definitely disagree there but to each his own and YMMV etc. The one thing I actually regret not being able to do is buy his art at the open house. I missed out on some of Kevin's stash sold on ebay during the Crisis part 1.
The artwork in dead reign is terrible as in most pb books. I like so far Chuck Walton and Amy Ashbugh. I notice that some of the terrible artist don't have any formal training. There just longtime fan friends. The lack of training shows when you see how badly the proportions are on the people and creatures in the books.
The Kevin Long art is ok. A bit to Cartoony for my tastes.besides I heard he got in trouble years ago for art plagiarism.
Cypher-xv wrote: The Kevin Long art is ok. A bit to Cartoony for my tastes.besides I heard he got in trouble years ago for art plagiarism.
If you find a link about that, let me know as I'd be genuinely curious to read about it. After he split from Palladium, I remember seeing him at an indy game company booth at gencon (no pun intended) and then didn't hear anything for over a decade until I saw that he was the creative director for that Wolfenstein console/pc game a few years back.
So I've been looking at the RRT stuff I received recently. Opened the Stretch goal bag, tried to assemble a veritech, saw that its head was split into two and the scale of it... Glued some 1/2 arms together and then I promptly put the core box up for sale.
The miniature is really really horrible to put together
This is regular polystyrene plastic, not black ABS - you can use regular model cement. I prefer Testors gel in the orange tube, and mine went together just fine.
If you prefer liquid with the needle applicator, that should also work fine.
While this is probably one of the worst possible places to push a kickstarter, I did want to take a moment to point out the latest robots revealed for Maelstrom's Edge, for those who are more about the mecha than robotech in particular:
You can see pictures of the sprues for the big guy here and the smaller one here. The sprues are sliding core, so no two-part legs to put together - they are extremely simple to assemble, and the sprues are already done, so you know exactly what you'll get with these.
legoburner wrote: While this is probably one of the worst possible places to push a kickstarter(...)The sprues are sliding core, so no two-part legs to put together - they are extremely simple to assemble, and the sprues are already done, so you know exactly what you'll get with these.
You're all forgiven if you also post this in the nearby DP9KS thread, so we can have a good laugh.
legoburner wrote: While this is probably one of the worst possible places to push a kickstarter, I did want to take a moment to point out the latest robots revealed for Maelstrom's Edge, for those who are more about the mecha than robotech in particular:
You can see pictures of the sprues for the big guy here and the smaller one here. The sprues are sliding core, so no two-part legs to put together - they are extremely simple to assemble, and the sprues are already done, so you know exactly what you'll get with these.
No! No! That's not true! That's impossible!
Because they can't be done that way. Darth KevCo said so.
You should have also mentioned beyond just the simplicity of assembly, the capacity for variation. According to the KS Update, the Hunter model specifically, has.
- Ball joints on the hips
- 180 degree joints on the feet
- Partial ball joints on the shoulders (easily extended)
- 80 degree joints at the elbows
- A rotatable hand
- Several weapons variations.
Things that would have gone a long way to making the RRT models what was if not promised, at least implied. But then again, the whole Maelstrom campaign seems to be predicated on doing the exact opposite of what Palladium did. It's truly a shame it's not (at least yet) having a similar success. I wonder how much of it is PB working the nostalgia line (both for Robotech after 30 years, and BT Unseen), how much of it is KS burnout (I know several people have mentioned being wary of Kickstarters in general after getting burnt), and how much is based on merit (or potentially lack thereof).
While the stretch goals don't make me giddy (though stretch goals do tend to be a cause of problems as much as not), I think the core box is worth at least taking a look at.
Morgan Vening wrote: It's truly a shame it's not (at least yet) having a similar success. I wonder how much of it is PB working the nostalgia line (both for Robotech after 30 years, and BT Unseen), how much of it is KS burnout (I know several people have mentioned being wary of Kickstarters in general after getting burnt), and how much is based on merit (or potentially lack thereof).
You've pretty much hit the highlights of it.
You also need to throw in that Spiral Arm Studios is a new company in most people's minds; even if this project has been under development for years the company has zero products in the wild. Palladium may be a crappy company in the opinion of a surprisingly large number of people, but they have been around for decades and there's a certain "well, they must have some clue of what they're doing" fallacy that emerges in logic, especially when blinded by plastic lust and one recalls "oh yeah, I know that name from the RPG shelf at the FLGS". While yakface is somewhat better known in tourney circles, he and the rest of the crew are still comparatively unknown in the world at large.
While it is a shame that PB got handed $1.44M to feth up massively and other companies who have a plan and dedication to delivering a quality product flounder, such is the way of the world sometimes.
That's pretty much our thoughts as well in that we appreciate that we are an unknown entity and kickstarter has a very poor track record with unknown companies delivering. We've tried to mitigate that by doing as much stuff up front as possible to show there is very little risk and control as many variables as we can, and we are happy that we've got the numbers we have. While it would be nice to be in the 6-7 figure range, 5 figures is still a lot of money and with a few hundred backers seeing that we've delivered a quality product, we'll be in a really good place.
legoburner wrote: While this is probably one of the worst possible places to push a kickstarter, I did want to take a moment to point out the latest robots revealed for Maelstrom's Edge, for those who are more about the mecha than robotech in particular:
The thicker bots look good. The skinny ones are too skinny, IMO.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
legoburner wrote: That's pretty much our thoughts as well in that we appreciate that we are an unknown entity and kickstarter has a very poor track record with unknown companies delivering. We've tried to mitigate that by doing as much stuff up front as possible to show there is very little risk and control as many variables as we can, and we are happy that we've got the numbers we have. While it would be nice to be in the 6-7 figure range, 5 figures is still a lot of money and with a few hundred backers seeing that we've delivered a quality product, we'll be in a really good place.
Well, I think part of the problem is that people have learned that even established companies (FFP, Chaosium, Palladium leap to mind, but there are plenty) also have a very poor track record.
Oh, and Wyrd. For the love of Jeebus, I could I forget Wyrd?
I know I'm late to the party but I just last night finally noticed that they spent time photoshopping the geese in the last update but yet have been too busy to post a single useful sentance for months with ANY meaningful RRPGT update info. Ugh... we've been here before IIRC last spring but it's still shockingly stupid the second time around.
Morgan Vening wrote: the whole Maelstrom campaign seems to be predicated on doing the exact opposite of what Palladium did.
While we're busy giving PB gak over Robotech, Dream Pod 9 is just getting started. They're now releasing toylike pre-production renders that don't look at all like the Kickstarter renders - classic "bait & switch" there. Those guys have every potential to feth things up.
DP9 heavy gear? Aren't those things roughly an inch tall, or about half the size of an already puny RRT RDF figure?
I guess I'm not a HG purist, but that detail at that size with what appears to be a solid amount of figure versatility being crafted, it looks fine to me.
Not sure I necessarily regret not backing that one, but that's based more on already having more games to play than I know what to do with. But I could see swinging by their booth at Gencon and snagging a choice piece or three if they have some for sale.
They're a little bit smaller for the average trooper/elite gear. The heavy support ones are the same size and the scouts are noticeably smaller. They won't have any plastics at the gencon booth but you can always snag a metal one instead. Personally, I'd recommend waiting before spending any money. Their big break in gaming was working FOR palladium and they picked up some dirty tricks under their tutelage as well as developed their own.
True, but the books they wrote for pb were some of the best looking from what I remember. I kept thinking how I wish the rest of the RT books had the same aesthetic.
Cypher-xv wrote: True, but the books they wrote for pb were some of the best looking from what I remember. I kept thinking how I wish the rest of the RT books had the same aesthetic.
That they were. The modern style for its time is the second thing that drew me to the original HG release (after the initial hunter pic).
The mekton/jovian chronicles ones? Thanks for the size comparison pic. You'd be surprised how few there are out there in gaming once a certain site closed down 5 years ago. I would point out though that those gears are an earlier style but still same scale version of the models. The current ones have bigger hands/arms/weapons as well as exaggerated size differences between the classes to better distinguish them on the tabletop. I'm not sure if those features will carry over to the plastics as the weapons on the HG renders look quite small.
Ding! Jovian Chronicles is correct! Not sure about Mekton, but I suppose one could cross it over.
I never knew The Pod resculpted the metal minis - I never figured them to have the financial resources to do things over. Bigger hands/arms/weapons would have been nice, as these are awfully spindly (and bendy)...
Going plastic should help, but the real problem is that there's no audience. Definitely, the new plastics will be much chunkier and toylike than what I have.
Some of the older stuff like the Wyvern IIRC started in mekton by RAFM at a bigger scale and then moved over to Jovian with DP9 with smaller minis. As for HG, the overall size wasn't changed but the stuff I mentioned above was as well as round to rectangular rocket pods and a few heads. Spoilered below are the "same" black mamba southern minis with the earlier scale up top and newer below.
Spoiler:
Courtesy of AAN here on dakka
by Angel Giraldez
We should probably take the HG talk over to one of the HG gear threads though.
The sprues for the Scarecrow look like what the Veritech sprues were supposed to be. I really hope there are some bulk deals for the scarecrows, drones and hunters when Maelstrom's Edge hits retail.
The scarecrow has a nice Pacific Rim vibe, like Tacit Ronin's asymmetrical cousin.
The green Gear is a regular trooper - he's a basic Jaeger, from the General Purpose Cadre, and he's not that much shorter.like the little models you picked out.
JohnHwangDD wrote: The green Gear is a regular trooper - he's a basic Jaeger, from the General Purpose Cadre, and he's not that much shorter.like the little models you picked out.
The first one is a Jäger, the second one a PRDF's Warrior IV. One is a regular trooper (the very same one you put in your pic, only mine's from the current line) and the other one is an elite Gear comparable to a Black Mamba or a Jaguar. Not what I'd call a "little model", for DP9.
You might say I'm quite aqquainted with DP9's current and past minis lines, particularly HG, what with having about 300 assorted ones.
JohnHwangDD wrote: The green Gear is a regular trooper - he's a basic Jaeger, from the General Purpose Cadre, and he's not that much shorter.like the little models you picked out.
The first one is a Jäger, the second one a PRDF's Warrior IV. One is a regular trooper (the very same one you put in your pic, only mine's from the current line) and the other one is an elite Gear comparable to a Black Mamba or a Jaguar. Not what I'd call a "little model", for DP9.
You might say I'm quite aqquainted with DP9's current and past minis lines, particularly HG, what with having about 300 assorted ones.
If you have the same minis in blitz, tactical, and/or rafm scale, can you post some side by side pics of all two or three together? (i.e. a rafm jager, tactical jager, and blitz jager side by side or even multiple model trios in one pic). I've never been able to find a pick that shows the tactical and rafm minis side by side.
JohnHwangDD wrote: The green Gear is a regular trooper - he's a basic Jaeger, from the General Purpose Cadre, and he's not that much shorter.like the little models you picked out.
The first one is a Jäger, the second one a PRDF's Warrior IV. One is a regular trooper (the very same one you put in your pic, only mine's from the current line) and the other one is an elite Gear comparable to a Black Mamba or a Jaguar. Not what I'd call a "little model", for DP9.
You might say I'm quite aqquainted with DP9's current and past minis lines, particularly HG, what with having about 300 assorted ones.
If you have the same minis in blitz, tactical, and/or rafm scale, can you post some side by side pics of all two or three together? (i.e. a rafm jager, tactical jager, and blitz jager side by side or even multiple model trios in one pic). I've never been able to find a pick that shows the tactical and rafm minis side by side.
I might be able to do something over the weekend.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
JohnHwangDD wrote: The Pod shrank the Jaeger? It looks like the new one is nearly a full head shorter than the one I own.
And they shrank the Black Mamba a LOT. More than a full head shorter.
Not sure is that big of a difference, bear in mind that I based that Warhammer on a hex regular base, which is a lot taller than the Robotech ones, and proportions changed a lot (the most noticeable are the arms, of course, but they shrinked the torsos a lot, too). As for the Mamba IIRC is taller than the Warrior IV, but the Warrior IV is wider, particularly at the shoulders. I'll try to do a better comparison ASAP.
Oh, OK. It could just be the camera angle playing tricks on us.
The net of it doesn't really change:
- Robotech minis are larger than Heavy Gear minis.
- Heavy Gear minis vary in size depending on edition
- Heavy Gear minis stand more than half the height of RDF minis.
If you have the same minis in blitz, tactical, and/or rafm scale, can you post some side by side pics of all two or three together? (i.e. a rafm jager, tactical jager, and blitz jager side by side or even multiple model trios in one pic). I've never been able to find a pick that shows the tactical and rafm minis side by side.
I might be able to do something over the weekend.
Thanks, much appreciated. There really aren't too many pics out there of older stuff. Between AAN's tactical stuff and I can't remember who has a decade old rafm gallery but one of the guys on the official forums does, that covers most of it and there isn't much in the way of comparison pics between the eras. I'm guessing that it is because loyal customers leave after getting screwed over and there isn't much overlap. In any case, I'll be anxiously awaiting the comparison pics over in the HG thread.
Update! After 2 months of silence, they have finally come bearing information!
Hey, everyone. Sorry for the long time between updates. I will be posting another update in the next couple of weeks with some exciting news, but for now...
Rest of World Shipping Complete
As many of you will know by now, Wave 1 rewards for Rest of World backers have been gradually shipping over the last few weeks. Well, except for a handful of exceptions due to address issues, they've finally all gone out as of this afternoon.
If you are set to receive Wave One items and haven’t yet gotten a package or a shipping confirmation email, please contact us so we can determine why. There are a few backers who we have attempted to contact for additional shipping information, and a few others who have still not completed the BackerKit process and selected their rewards. Please check your inbox and spam folders and if you haven’t received anything from us, please contact us so we can look into it.
But first, please make sure you are supposed to be receiving Wave One items. Note: That does not include Rick Hunter or the SDF-1. Please refer to the following complete breakdown of which items shipped in Wave One, and which will ship in Wave Two, reposted from Update #163.
And then they proceed to quote a giant wall of text from Update 163.
So it only took them ~258 (according to some dude in the comments) days to ship out everyone's packages!
And despite it being 2 months since they said anything of substance, we can wait a couple more weeks for info!
I guess we shouldn't expect anything of note from the open house then either if it'll be "a couple of weeks". And, no, I don't count the monumentus annoucement of a dice CUP that they've been working 80 hours a week for months to bring us to be anything of note.. Of course, if "soon" means 2 months almost to the day to get a gakky update like that, "a couple of weeks" could easily mean after gencon in Palladium parlance.
In hindsight, my new favourite part of that giant copy/paste from Update 163 is the realization that 3 people (assuming they coughed up the money) paid $3,500 apiece for a Battle Cry and a 'studio painted' Core Box and Rick.
Which means they paid $3,500 up front for wave one of a Battle Cry, and will in theory receive wave two plus a (hopefully) nicely painted core box *some day*.
I'd kind of forgotten anyone even went for that back in the day, but the update reminded me it was even 'a thing'.
Cypher-xv wrote: Don't forget that little bit where Wayne says it'll be another couple of weeks before another update. Man these guys suck.
Well, here's the list of statements, including and following the March 1st Update (the last to have actual news, and not just a few notifications), and aside from mentions of shipping (another issue), is pretty much the entirety of communication from PB regarding the project in the last 2 and a half months.
March 1st, KSU#173 - "More will be coming in the following days."
March 6th, PBWU - "We are working on a number of things we think will make Robotech® RPG Tactics™ fans happy. We hope to do a big update soon."
March 13th, PBWU - "We continue to work on a number of things we think Robotech® RPG Tactics™ fans will be very pleased with, but nothing we can reveal quite yet. We intend to do a big update soon."
March 18th, PBWU - "Much more about our plans for Robotech® RPG Tactics™ in the weeks to follow."
March 27th, PBWU - "Gotta keep this one brief, but we have all kinds of things boiling that we’ll be talking about soon."
April 2nd, PBWU - "So much going on. We continue to hammer out a number of projects and plans we think our Kickstarter backers and all Robotech® supporters will be excited about. We don’t have everything worked out yet, so we are hesitant to discuss them yet, but very soon."
April 10th, PBWU - "We have wanted to write and post a rather expansive update to all our Robotech® supporters for a number of weeks now. We plan to do so next week."
April 19th, PBWU - "We have so much underway for this product line. And not just the engineering aspect of Wave Two items, we just requested a quote for a handful of new items. I have been wanting to write and post a couple of comprehensive Updates about this game line, but we have all been overwhelmed with work on several fronts from conventions and the Open House, to new product releases, plus some of the details are not yet known. Will try to get something out to our supporters soon."
April 24th, PBWU - "We are still working on a lot of different things for RRT, but hope to have a couple of big announcements coming very soon."
April 30th, PBWU - "We have been working away on a number of RRT items. So much more to announce. It’s coming."
May 9th, PBWU - "We have never stopped working on a number of RRT items and I hope to have some exciting news to announce very soon. It’s coming."
Then today we got, as Forar and Cypher mentioned, we get
May 14th, KS#175, "Sorry for the long time between updates. I will be posting another update in the next couple of weeks with some exciting news, but for now..."
Meaning that even if they DO announce something at the Open House, they have no intention of letting the backers know, and I guess hoping that the Open House fans will gin up the enthusiasm for them. Even though part of their schtick has been about PB improving communications. Then failing. Then making further commitment to it. Then failing again.
To be completely fair to PB though, in the above, the references to days and weeks are accurate, if you don't mind counting the former into triple digits, and the latter into double. Sure, most people would use "months", if that was the intention, but PB aren't most people. Similarly, soon is also technically accurate, as long as you're using an appropriate timeframe. I mean, if you assume the end of the millenium, anything in the next half century could be considered "soon".
It would take an evening to catalog the entire two years of that same continuous lie-procrastinate-apologize cycle. That would make a hell of a post for the megaversal forums though... and probably your last despite being entirely factual.
If anyone does that, be sure to post it somewhere (everywhere) else where it won't be deleted. I don't foresee it being posted at their forums for more than an hour.
Alpharius wrote: It's almost like they don't read their own updates?
Don't be ridiculous; of course they read them! You have to do that in order to find the parts to copy and paste into the next "major" update two months later. It takes effort to go back almost a whole year to rehash that old info instead of putting in the stuff you've been supposedly working on and hinting at for months (my guess... dice cups!). In a cult, though, the absurdity of it is lost upon the devotees (paid or otherwise) of the Siembiedassiah.
warboss wrote: It would take an evening to catalog the entire two years of that same continuous lie-procrastinate-apologize cycle. That would make a hell of a post for the megaversal forums though... and probably your last despite being entirely factual.
I did do a quick reference guide for September 26th 2013 through March 15 2014, where I boiled them down to the rawest points. I didn't use direct quotes, because at the time they were still quite flowery, and I just wanted dates for specific throwbacks to various announcements of completion, and deadlines. This was back when (for example) they were pushing in November that they were three months (February, maybe sooner) for completion of the entirety of the project. It wasn't until late January they announced the split. And I was tired of people saying "But they never said X!".
Note, the first date, Sep 26, 2013, was Update 113 which is for me, the reason why PB have literally zero credibility on anything, but specifically promises about where their progress is. It's just so full of fail, it's literally amazing that they were able to put so much crap into just 230 words.
I also did a quote-list for shipping, because the excuses for AU/RoW were wearing thin.
Spoiler:
Dec 3rd, KSU#166 "In fact, we expect the rewards to our European backers to leave the Palladium warehouse by the end of THIS WEEK."
Jan 14th, KSU#167 "The Wave One packages for all European backers were shipped from our warehouse to Battle Foam on Thursday, December 4." NOTE- The last time PB had any hand in the process regarding EU.
"When Australia’s packages have left the warehouse, we’ll begin shipping out the rest of the world. The good news for you guys is that we’ll send these packages directly to you, and you’ll likely receive them much faster, barring any delays in your country."
Jan 29th, KSU#169 "We loaded up a 20-foot container full of Australian backer rewards on Thursday last week, and it is en route to the port." NOTE- The last time PB had any hand in the process regarding AU.
March 13th "Robotech® RPG Tactics™ has been shipping to our European Kickstarter backers all week, and should start shipping to our Australian Kickstarter backers and the rest of the world in another week or so."
March 18th "The other container arrived at port in Australia last week and we anticipate packages starting to get mailed out to our Kickstarter backers and the rest of the world by the end of this week and next."
April 10th "Shipping the last hundred or so to the rest of the world has begun and will continue over the next few weeks."
May 9th, KSU#174 Comments "Rest of World packages have been shipping for weeks now and continue to do so."
May 14th, KSU#175 "As many of you will know by now, Wave 1 rewards for Rest of World backers have been gradually shipping over the last few weeks. Well, except for a handful of exceptions due to address issues, they've finally all gone out as of this afternoon."
So, here's by the numbers for the work on Palladium's end. It only accounts for stuff PB are responsible for, and NOT stuff like port delays.
US/Can Shipping, some 200 orders, started August 29th, finished not long after. As they were cagey on what they were shipping*, not much detail. US/Can Shipping, some 3600+ orders, started October 4th, finished November 17th. (44 days, 81+ orders a day) US/Can Shipping, some "hundred + couple hundred orders" (I estimated 400 as reasonable), started November 17th, finished along with retail, before Black Friday Nov 28th (11 days, 36 pledges per day). UK Shipping, some 900** orders, started at some unknown date, finished Dec 4th, 2014. So no data on rate there. AU Shipping, some 200** orders, started December 4th, finished January 22nd, (49 days, 4 pledges per day). Even if you account 4 weeks off for Christmas, that's still less than 10 per day. Then despite saying they were moving on to RoW, they took 78 days off. Cause screw RoW, that's why? RoW Shipping, some 100 orders, started April 10th, finished May 14th (34 days, 3 orders per day)
Just be glad they care about their international backers.
* This was when they shipped an entire container of base boxes, because they intended to sell at GenCon. The announcement of the vote came just days before (June 13) the first container was "On a boat" ("a couple of days ago", June 18), and the evidence while circumstantial, is clear they never had the capacity to send out Battlecry's. So, even if it had arrived, and the vote had NOT gone their way, they still couldn't have delivered except to the 200 First Contact buyers.
** I can't recall the exact numbers, but I do recall these numbers being close, and they do fit the 5300 number pretty close.
For the backers, it only reminds us how angry we really should be.
For PB, only reminds them that what they say does not magically disappear.
At least it is a handy list to shake-up the wording a bit week to week.
I really wonder what goes through a mind that thinks that saying you have done "stuff" and say nothing is better than actually saying what you did?
I hate to say, it is actually better to write nothing at all rather than "No! we did not forget RRT but have nothing to say just yet!".
Other items of note:
Now the BIG hobby shop in my area picked up a bunch of Robotech stuff last week, I will be going up tomorrow and see if anything moved, as I buy other stuff...
Mind you, it went on one of the higher shelves so may have a marketing disadvantage.
I have to put together more of these models since some crazy individuals want to play bigger games.
Is it inappropriate to feel dread at the prospect?
Will do Destroids first, yeah, they're not so bad.
it is a mixed blessing imbibing before assembly of Veritechs: results may vary but it hurts less.
Anyone have any idea of what to use for "gravity bombs" on the Veritechs?
I am not sure if I saw anything in the show so I have no idea what they look like.
I would like to fancy two of them up (6 models!) as dedicated bombers to add to a squadron.
Forar wrote: In hindsight, my new favourite part of that giant copy/paste from Update 163 is the realization that 3 people (assuming they coughed up the money) paid $3,500 apiece for a Battle Cry and a 'studio painted' Core Box and Rick.
Which means they paid $3,500 up front for wave one of a Battle Cry, and will in theory receive wave two plus a (hopefully) nicely painted core box *some day*.
I'd kind of forgotten anyone even went for that back in the day, but the update reminded me it was even 'a thing'.
And what's truly shuddering is that they were probably given to Blue Table painting to be done.
Stormonu wrote: And what's truly shuddering is that they were probably given to Blue Table painting to be done.
I was thinking the same thing. Paying more than 3K for a boxed set to be painted to the standard we've seen so far, AND having to wait at least another six (likely 8+ IMO) months, these people must have the temperance of saints.
My question is, while yes, the initial pledge was to have the painted components ship late, that was when they were still expecting a) a single wave, and b) a December release date, why hasn't it been done yet?
I find it baffling (though I shouldn't) that this hasn't been done already. With the exception of the Rick Hunter figure, they've had everything to get the rest of it done, for 9+ months. Given what these people paid, get it done, get it shipped (as a Wave 1.5), and not leave three of your biggest backers twisting in the wind. Get the Rick sculpts done first, with four sample sprues airfreighted (one to show off, if you can manage a picture), and then the Rick's get painted up and go out with the first orders of Wave 2.
But I fully expect, as with the resin components, that the first containers will arrive, and someone at PBHQ will finally realize "Crap! We forgot to get the Gloval's and resins done!". At which point, the decision will be made that well, the Glovals and anyone with resins in their order will just have their pledges delayed until such time as they're ready. Because it's been made readily apparent that PB don't have much capacity for forethought and planning.
And it's not like a pro assembly and paint job on 102 (105 if they do all 6 Battloids per box) figures takes very long, right? Knock that off in a weekend, I'm sure!
Forar wrote: And it's not like a pro assembly and paint job on 102 (105 if they do all 6 Battloids per box) figures takes very long, right? Knock that off in a weekend, I'm sure!
I find it baffling (though I shouldn't) that this hasn't been done already. With the exception of the Rick Hunter figure, they've had everything to get the rest of it done, for 9+ months. Given what these people paid, get it done, get it shipped (as a Wave 1.5), and not leave three of your biggest backers twisting in the wind. Get the Rick sculpts done first, with four sample sprues airfreighted (one to show off, if you can manage a picture), and then the Rick's get painted up and go out with the first orders of Wave 2.
But I fully expect, as with the resin components, that the first containers will arrive, and someone at PBHQ will finally realize "Crap! We forgot to get the Gloval's and resins done!". At which point, the decision will be made that well, the Glovals and anyone with resins in their order will just have their pledges delayed until such time as they're ready. Because it's been made readily apparent that PB don't have much capacity for forethought and planning.
Hoo Boy.
Snowball, meet Hell! Call the press, Satan seen skating to work in scarf and mittens!
Based on what has happened already [Rewards split ing to 'Wave 1' and 'Wave 2', then PB sending a single stinking decal sheet despite having been told I don't want it until Wave 2], they'll probably send each different figure in it's own little 'Wavette". So my guess is:
Rick, Wavette 1.1
Roy, Wavette 1.2
Khyron, Wavette 1.3
Mirya, Wavette 1.4
And who knows from there. I'm still looking at the SDF-1, YF-4, and probably another couple of bits - it's been so long, I can't remember what I pledged for and am finding it hard to care at this point. After all, it won't be arriving anytime soon* so I don't need to remember right now.
Would someone please give me a prod sometime in July? Thanks.
Snowball, meet Hell! Call the press, Satan seen skating to work in scarf and mittens!
Based on what has happened already [Rewards split ing to 'Wave 1' and 'Wave 2', then PB sending a single stinking decal sheet despite having been told I don't want it until Wave 2], they'll probably send each different figure in it's own little 'Wavette". So my guess is:
Rick, Wavette 1.1
Roy, Wavette 1.2
Khyron, Wavette 1.3
Mirya, Wavette 1.4
And who knows from there. I'm still looking at the SDF-1, YF-4, and probably another couple of bits - it's been so long, I can't remember what I pledged for and am finding it hard to care at this point. After all, it won't be arriving anytime soon* so I don't need to remember right now.
Nah, they won't do that. Because that'll be an increased shipping cost, and they don't like to spend money. Like, at all. The only way it'd happen is if they do a similar thing to what another campaign (Shadows of Brimstone) are planning to do, and offering those waves, as long as the backers pay shipping. In that case, I can fully see them doing it, and using the excuse "Well, if backers wanted it first, they had the option to pony up the dough.". The difference being, I don't recall FFP ever making a similar promise, regarding "backers first, no exceptions". But given the mental gymnastics PB went through for GenCon last year, I can see them running that angle.
Conrad Turner wrote: Would someone please give me a prod sometime in July? Thanks.
I bet The one freelancer who's always there will throw a fit and talk some trash. Lately he's been getting a tad upset every time someone questions about rrt. In one of his last posts he was blaming ND and HG again.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Looks like the other shoe dropped.
Just an extension of their "advertising".
If it looks bad: "kill it".
Picture if things like that were allowed to continue and Kevin came across it.
It is like the forums are groomed as a "pick-me-up" for him during a "rough day" to review.
So, wonder what critical mass is needed before Wave 2 information leaves the circle of silence?
Is the reasoning still because "backers are mean" and estimated dates of completion require greater accuracy than a mentally disturbed weatherman predicting rain with dousing rods?
So, do we place bets we hear Wave 2 would be for sale at Gencon? (sorry backers, we need the momentum!).
Next target, maybe Christmas? Easter? Which year?
I fully expect PB is so "Mono-task" that many stages needing approval / input had been put off: "we have an open house! Too much to do!"<jazzhands!>. They really seem to focus more on last minute items that could generate revenue now.
I fully expect their staff are twiddling their thumbs because Kevin's input que is overloaded and they dare not make a decision without him.
I dare not speculate what Harmony Gold is doing, or not doing.
Very rant of me, the false pause for dramatic effect by PB is wearing thin I am afraid.
Cypher-xv wrote: I bet The one freelancer who's always there will throw a fit and talk some trash. Lately he's been getting a tad upset every time someone questions about rrt. In one of his last posts he was blaming ND and HG again.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Looks like the other shoe dropped.
It wasn't even a brutal listing the way you phrased it. It was simply a posting of their "meaningful" communication for *ONLY* the past two months. It seems like they're ramping up the modding to the summer con season level like last year. I haven't posted there since I was banned for precrime (seriously, I got a 3 month ban for trolling the NEXT kickstarter because I said I'd pledge $1 just to post comments).
It seems they can't NMI locked it.
Now there's also at least two yelp reviews. Here's one where Kevin cusses out some poor woman for only doing her job.
Owner is a very rude and angry person, we came to do a service for him and we gave him a discount on the cost, and we saw we had to buy a special tool to do the work for him. We offered that next time we came we would give a discount and we would waive the service call next time we came. He refused to pay the service call which he was told about before we came out to him, and he signed a invoice saying he agreed to everything, he called us names, and swore at the girl who works for our company. And he wanted all of this work done because he thinks his employee is stealing from his company.
The Owner name is Kevin his phone number is 734-788-8681
Cypher-xv wrote: Now there's also at least two yelp reviews. Here's one where Kevin cusses out some poor woman for only doing her job.
Owner is a very rude and angry person, we came to do a service for him and we gave him a discount on the cost, and we saw we had to buy a special tool to do the work for him. We offered that next time we came we would give a discount and we would waive the service call next time we came. He refused to pay the service call which he was told about before we came out to him, and he signed a invoice saying he agreed to everything, he called us names, and swore at the girl who works for our company. And he wanted all of this work done because he thinks his employee is stealing from his company.
The Owner name is Kevin his phone number is 734-788-8681
I did security and surveillance for eight years, and I can't conceive of any special tool you would need to do the job in a warehouse that you wouldn't already have.
Of course it's entirely possible a pathetic cheapass like Kevin would try calling "Big Jim's Cameras And Stuff" who isn't actually a professional and doesn't have the equipment he should have.
Yes, hilariously it's the one about "These guys suck at Kickstarter" and not the one that says "Kevin is a deadbeat who doesn't pay his bills" that got removed.
"So Kevin Siembieda did provide a brief update on Robotech RPG Tactics at the Open House. Some good news about plans to release more products. They hope to do some work with GHQ."
"They hope to have Wave 2 done by the end of this year, but take note Palladium never seems to meet the release dates they propose. So take it to mean there is no way there will be Wave 2 product before December."
"Palladium was clearly thinking of the Backers with there comments at the open house. They expressed a desire to release info to the backers first. They took other efforts to not undermine backers."
" It sounds like they hope to get GHQ to make metal minis for Robotech vehicles not included in the Kickstarter. They plan to offer them to Backers on Backerkit."
"Nothing new in terms of models. They had the Mac II, the zentradi fighter prototypes in a display case, but I do not think those are new."
So despite being surrounded by Fan Friends it sounds like they chose not to share any particularly big scoops with the crowd.
... or they have nothing to show for the last year of effort.
Also, this was linked from months past by another backer, thought I'd share it around a bit:
"Wave 2 the product is currently in tooling. Ninja John was over in China a while ago to check it out as well."
"We were over in China a while ago to make sure everything was lined up and good to go. Wave 2 is in the tooling process. :-)"
"(This is John), as the creative director and manager of this project with Palladium, Wave 2 product has been approved and received in China for months now. I am not privy to the tooling process at this exact moment, as Palladium is managing their end process for the 2nd wave - but all content has been delivered and reviewed and accepted for mold making for a while now. Now, what we can do, is try and prod our pals at Palladium and get a status update for the community for you all. Wave 1 has only recently been pushed out to backers and retailers, so I am sure more product is soon to follow. Thank you for your time reaching out to us, we are happy to answer any questions to the best of our ability."
"Sorry guys, I cant comment as to anything there - but I know some great looking models have been delivered (OMG wait till you see the armored Valks) - and its churning and burning as we speak. I have not seen physical copies or mold masters yet, I will ask. (-Ninja John)"
Individual commentary stripped out, hopefully that doesn't remove much context but it's not a terribly long comment chain if you want to check out the original link.
If "China" has had the W2 stuff for "months" as of January, that's... 6-7+ months?
And PB has 5 sprue breakdown renders to show for it.
Now yes, this becomes a he-said/she-said situation, but I continue to feel that ND has retained benefit of the doubt where PB has not.
"So Kevin Siembieda did provide a brief update on Robotech RPG Tactics at the Open House. Some good news about plans to release more products. They hope to do some work with GHQ."
"They hope to have Wave 2 done by the end of this year, but take note Palladium never seems to meet the release dates they propose. So take it to mean there is no way there will be Wave 2 product before December."
"Palladium was clearly thinking of the Backers with there comments at the open house. They expressed a desire to release info to the backers first. They took other efforts to not undermine backers."
I'm glad they think so highly of us that they decided to continue their policy of leaving us completely out of the loop at their marque event. Remember, they just want to tell us so much that it hurts... remember itt hurts them so much more than it hurts us to ignore us completely out of respect for us.
"It sounds like they hope to get GHQ to make metal minis for Robotech vehicles not included in the Kickstarter. They plan to offer them to Backers on Backerkit."
'Sounds like' and 'hope'. Cue Mike's sad trombone.
"Sorry guys, I cant comment as to anything there - but I know some great looking models have been delivered (OMG wait till you see the armored Valks) - and its churning and burning as we speak. I have not seen physical copies or mold masters yet, I will ask. (-Ninja John)"
Further signs pointing to them not having the money to do the actual production?
Hopefully someone at GHQ has some sense, and notices that this game is dead, dead, dead, and doesn't waste the time making molds and masters for stuff a tiny fraction of the customer base might even consider. Most people are just hoping they get their crap at some point now, and kiss off Palladium ASAP.
totalfailure wrote: Hopefully someone at GHQ has some sense, and notices that this game is dead, dead, dead, and doesn't waste the time making molds and masters for stuff a tiny fraction of the customer base might even consider. Most people are just hoping they get their crap at some point now, and kiss off Palladium ASAP.
Well I am glad I am not the only one who cornered the market on negativity. I have too much RRT stuff to ignore, gotta go whole hog, GHQ puts out some sci-fi vehicles: I am going to be all over that.
I really cannot argue your point, I just want my stuff and to "kiss off Palladium ASAP" is a fine plan.
I was already looking at a heavy lifter at shapeways.
I just cut out all the spare bits out of the sprues for the bits box: OMG that was a big pile of plastic.
I foresee making some UEDF missile turrets and Zent. gun turrets out of all the spare bits.
What is scary is I have more models unassembled than built... I will have a drinking habit before all this is over.
Thank goodness for X-wing or I would suffer from build burn-out.
So Kevin plans on becoming "big brother"?
Or should I say more so?
I wonder what his various employees have access to so he can be "ripped off"?
Is it the fine quality of people he chooses to surround himself with or paranoia?
A camera over every desk and every bathroom I am sure: fun times.
Well, at least things are never dull with this silly group.
Except of course... Wave... 2.... info.
totalfailure wrote: Hopefully someone at GHQ has some sense, and notices that this game is dead, dead, dead, and doesn't waste the time making molds and masters for stuff a tiny fraction of the customer base might even consider. Most people are just hoping they get their crap at some point now, and kiss off Palladium ASAP.
GHQ has been asking for months for customers who buy their models to use for Robotech to let them know so that they are able to measure interest. Obviously, they are selling enough models in connection with Robotech to believe that they can make more money from it.
Did he explain how random Canadian backer #XXX magically got that cell phone number? Or was it just the general palladium shop number? DId he respond via KS pm or forums pm?
So the private cell phone # of Kevin leaked out to the web? (!!)
I don't think I would know where to begin if I called it.
Actually, I really cannot imagine anything constructive coming out of that phone call for either party.
Cypher: remember that PB runs on the "shoot the messenger" principle.
Hence why we do not get updates.
Why should they treat you any different?
Ah! Now my original post is gone. Well I let Wayne know I only posted the number thinking it was for PB. I even said sorry. So I asked when we can expect a new update. So far nothing.
It's obvious that Kevin can't do anything to the people who posted on yelp. So now I'm being punished by not letting me log on to kickstarter.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just noticed my posts in the update section have been deleted. Funny I've seen others post the same links, but I guess with my to honest post on Kevin's FB updates and such I guess they need someone to blame to take away from their rrt problems.
Cypher-xv wrote: Ah! Now my original post is gone. Well I let Wayne know I only posted the number thinking it was for PB. I even said sorry. So I asked when we can expect a new update. So far nothing.
It's obvious that Kevin can't do anything to the people who posted on yelp. So now I'm being punished by not letting me log on to kickstarter.
I don't think even the all powerful wizard of palladium can stop you from logging into KS. In any case, it's his own damn fault that the number got out from a quick investigation. I'm guessing it's the one in the removed yelp review. So... to theorize/recap... he suspects that an employee is stealing from him so hires so guy to do some sort of security work for him on the sly at palladium and therefore does NOT give the general palladium phone number but instead his private phone number... and then proceeds to treat the guy with the same courtesy and respect that he reserves for KS backers and rpg customers and the guy posts likely his only contact info as part of the review... and now he blames Canada for it. LOL... only at palladium. When will palladium learn that karma is not on their side and stop trying to screw over folks. His inner circle keeps stealing from him despite being such fanfriends who agree with everything he does and life just keeps smacking him in the jimmy every time he tries to pull a fast one over on an innocent party.
Ok, good. It isn't retaliation then and you're just banned from posting for who knows how long. Over in the gears and whatever thread where they made the game boards, someone had their pledge refunded after over a year and a half delay just weeks before the supposed delivery date (that turned out to be false several times/months in a row) without his prompting because he complained too much. Ironically, it was the dakkite (in)famous for threatening to drop his pledge on KS.
You may not have been doing it, but there's definitely been some posts mixed in Mike's page, the KS comments and elsewhere that came across to me as very clearly knowing that they weren't giving out the work contact info, in the same way that some 'helpful souls' have been answering people looking for contact info with the "tipster" email address rather than the "kickstarter@pb" one.
Again, not saying you were, more that you may have been swept up in with people who were using only the thinnest veneer of 'helping'.
Alpharius wrote: Is "fan-friend" an actual term PB actually uses, or an inside joke?
There have been some mention in their magazine "The Rifter" where they will give thanks to "fan/friends" (found in #37) as well in weekly updates they say "friends, fans".
They seem to like to combine fans and friends in their missives but do not use the term the way you see in this forum.
I found this google search helped a bit: "Palladium books "fan friend"".
I really cannot place the origin but when used with a space or a hyphen it typically seems to be used in a negative way... it appears interchangeable in regard to "White Knight" at least in regards to PB.
Oddly, most of the hits are found in Dakka.
totalfailure wrote: Hopefully someone at GHQ has some sense, and notices that this game is dead, dead, dead, and doesn't waste the time making molds and masters for stuff a tiny fraction of the customer base might even consider. Most people are just hoping they get their crap at some point now, and kiss off Palladium ASAP.
GHQ has been asking for months for customers who buy their models to use for Robotech to let them know so that they are able to measure interest. Obviously, they are selling enough models in connection with Robotech to believe that they can make more money from it.
I'm sure it will be a big winner for them Meanwhile, isn't it time for another session with your man-god Kevin? Ruler of the known universe, purveyor of RPGs that were outdated 30 years ago?
Alpharius wrote: Is "fan-friend" an actual term PB actually uses, or an inside joke?
There have been some mention in their magazine "The Rifter" where they will give thanks to "fan/friends" (found in #37) as well in weekly updates they say "friends, fans".
They seem to like to combine fans and friends in their missives but do not use the term the way you see in this forum.
I found this google search helped a bit: "Palladium books "fan friend"".
I really cannot place the origin but when used with a space or a hyphen it typically seems to be used in a negative way... it appears interchangeable in regard to "White Knight" at least in regards to PB.
Oddly, most of the hits are found in Dakka.
There was another one of Kevin's ridiculous rambling loads of crap updates that mentioned he had had some "fan friends" or, possibly, "fan-friends" over for dinner. It was his term. I thought the term was very much a contemptuous term and said so. Then more than one chucklehead felt the need to tune in with "I TAKE ITAS A COMPLIMENT, YOU HATER OF ALL THINGS HOLY!!1!!!".
So, it's a denigrating (contemptuous? dismissive?) term handed down from The Simbieda Himself. And it's embraced by his followers.
Not that I necessarily disbelieve it, after all, it's about the dumbest thing they could possibly do. The first thing people said when they saw the scale was "Alphas will be dinky, Cyclones will be practically pinheads". Changing it half way through would be just plain idiotic. But, this is PB we're talking about.
However, when some dipwad continually says crap like "Blah blah blah it might be this thing I'm guessing, but only PB knows!" I can't see how his opinion is worth a damned thing.
Thanks for the link and info for the non-facers out here.
I'm not sure how that first one is surprising. Plenty of folks (including myself) have said even during the KS that the current scale is not viable for the other eras and they'd have to bump it up to not have epic 40,000 sized figures. I wouldn't have any issues with that even if I planned to buy more figs (which I don't except for one zent infantry pack).
New rules? Again, not surprising. I'd expect them to eventually come up with some more detailed rules to replace the bare bones stupid skirmish option they currently have. My guess would be something much closer to the RPG rules and even possibly palladium's frankenstein d4/d6/d8/d10/d20/d100 system. My gut tells me that Ninja Division would be much more hands off and in the background assuming they're not gone completely for post wave 2 products so Palladium would feel free to "innovate" by changing to their clunky middle aged ruleset.
3 D printing expansions? Not for a few more years. I printed out a single custom fig that I uploaded using the same "ultra fine detail" level that shapeways has and that single fig that was the same size and of lower detail than a 2nd edition snap fit starter set marine and cost me around $25 including shipping with ZERO markup since I was printing one copy out for myself and not selling it. That isn't viable for expansions unless your goal is to have GW style plastic character clamshell pricing. There obviously could be a bulk discount but I still don't see it at the current pricing and detail. That said.. it is Palladium so stupid is as stupid does and I'm not ruling it out.
An Alpha stands 9m tall, comparable to a Destroid.
Now do the math for the invid where plenty of the models would be less than half the size of the alpha (10-18ft)... and then the cyclones (the single most numerous human mecha in that series) that are 1/5 the size of that alpha. Even the Southern Cross hovertank is IIRC around 22ft and the Logan is significantly smaller than that.
Yeah, I'm not so sure that's reliable. Could be, but it's making a LOT of assumptions and isn't sourced in any way. Put it this way, if it were couched negatively, I'd have assumed it was a Rick post.
And that's one of the issues I have with it. It's posted with a positive air, but all three things posited, have the potential to have significant backlash from the community, especially the KS Backers.
1) Changing Scale - Given that some backers, including one of the "big spenders", made a huge deal during the campaign about wanting the scale to remain consistent (the big spender actually retracting almost his entire pledge at one point over it), any significant scale change is going to not go over well.
2) Changing Rules Set - Depending on how this is done, it could either have a neutral or negative effect for some people. If it only applies to the later generations, and doesn't replace the current rules set, that's one thing. If it is a planned edition change this soon, and current backers are required to pony up the dough, it's completely another.
3) Changing Production Method - 3D printing on demand may be the way of the 'future', but it's got a while yet before it's both cheap enough and good enough to be a viable option. And then there's all the complications on top of that. Specifically, countries and areas that don't have access to 3DPOD services. Games stores having no interest in sponsoring/supporting games they can't profit from. And while it might not be seen as a bad thing by PB, but players not being able to get the items discounted. Most online retailers offer 20-30% off MSRP. That might cut into PB's perceived profit margins, but on the market saturation perspective, even if they retain enough of those discount players to keep cashflow similar, if there's less people playing the game, then there is more difficulty getting the critical mass needed to self-sustain. The primary reason GW is still the 900lb gorilla is that you can go to almost any area and find SOMEONE who plays. It's a huge selling point for getting people involved.
It doesn't help that the author of the post seems incredibly optimistic and naive. The author claims "One thing is for sure, Palladium is 110% committed to Robotech RPG Tactics.", when that's just demonstrably false. And claims that these reasons MIGHT potentially be the reasons why there's been a hold up on Wave 2. Except only speculation #3 has anything to do with Wave 2, and even that is not a realistic aspiration for the next year. And if Wave 2 is postponed much past this time next year, there are bigger problems.
That's not to say I don't think PB might be considering any and all of the above. The first two wouldn't be an issue if PB thought ahead, but they made commitments, and at some point, breaking commitments will irk even the most staunch supporter. The latter looks like the kind of "Jump in head first without understanding or thinking it through properly" mentality that lead to using the N-Gage as their platform for videogames.
But given it's source is essentially "an unnamed but unofficial person on the internet told me", it's hard to take it at face value.
Is the "big spender" you're referring to that bad syntax/eric smith guy? If so, he retracted it because people didn't like his fan conversions of stuff and he took his ball (and stretch goal home) to pout overnight before coming back AFTER changing his name (but not realizing that his old comments were still linked there).
2) Changing Rules Set - Depending on how this is done, it could either have a neutral or negative effect for some people. If it only applies to the later generations, and doesn't replace the current rules set, that's one thing. If it is a planned edition change this soon, and current backers are required to pony up the dough, it's completely another.
As long as it is just an option and not a change in the standard rules, I don't see an issue. If they were to change the core rules for the other eras then that would be a collossally stupid move. I'm sure plenty of folks want to play across eras and that would screw them over even if they eventually came out with a clunky conversion guide.
It doesn't help that the author of the post seems incredibly optimistic and naive. The author claims "One thing is for sure, Palladium is 110% committed to Robotech RPG Tactics.", when that's just demonstrably false. And claims that these reasons MIGHT potentially be the reasons why there's been a hold up on Wave 2.
110%???!? Holy gak.. that's like 12% better than what we started Macross with! If true, that means that we can expect those things only a year and a half after they're advertised/supposed to come out. WIN!
warboss wrote: Is the "big spender" you're referring to that bad syntax/eric smith guy? If so, he retracted it because people didn't like his fan conversions of stuff and he took his ball (and stretch goal home) to pout overnight before coming back AFTER changing his name (but not realizing that his old comments were still linked there).
I stand corrected. I know he threatened to do so at least twice because of potential scale changes. I must have conflated the two issues.
warboss wrote: As long as it is just an option and not a change in the standard rules, I don't see an issue. If they were to change the core rules for the other eras then that would be a collossally stupid move. I'm sure plenty of folks want to play across eras and that would screw them over even if they eventually came out with a clunky conversion guide.
Heh. Collosally stupid move. Or, as we've come to know them, standard operating procedures.
The main issue I have with this, besides the compatibility issue you raise, and the obsolescence issue I mentioned, is that if this is holding up Wave 2 (one of the primary premises of the original FB post is that these three things are potentially a holdup of Wave 2), then it's Palladium being Palladium, and not being able to focus. Sure, do this stuff. AFTER you've got all the stuff you've already promised, out of your hands. Once manufacturing starts, you can move on to other stuff.
Normally, I'm OK with multitasking, and working on things a couple of stages ahead. But PB have proven that they're incapable of working like that, and with the project already almost 18 months late, and with no end in sight, finishing what's on their plate before getting seconds, isn't an unreasonable stance to take.
I was going to say it's not an unreasonable expectation, but my expectations of what PB consider reasonable has taken a hit over the last two years. While they still might get a "Really? That's fethed up!" out of me, I don't think they could do anything to shock me anymore. Selling some Wave 2 items at GenCon? Heck, I expected that (though a percieved lack of progress makes me doubt they could, even if they wanted to). Stating that they were out of money to continue, and that because everything listed in the Battlecry beyond what is already supplied is "free", only Add-Ons would be refunded? Would not be shocked. The bar has been set so low on expectations, it's recessed into the floor. And yet someone at PB will invariably trip over it.
An Alpha stands 9m tall, comparable to a Destroid.
Now do the math for the invid where plenty of the models would be less than half the size of the alpha (10-18ft)... and then the cyclones (the single most numerous human mecha in that series) that are 1/5 the size of that alpha. Even the Southern Cross hovertank is IIRC around 22ft and the Logan is significantly smaller than that.
Some mild fudging of scale would be acceptable. A full scale change would not. Infantry being extremely small is fine by me, as that is how my Battletech infantry are. Also note, the scale is fairly inconsistent in the series, and in some scenes things appear larger than in others.
Making an Alpha Fighter chest height to a VF-1 and the Hover tanks waist height to a VF-1 would be fine in my eyes, YMMV, but it is not that far off. Invid Scouts and such are almost infantry scale so maybe up them to be a little bigger than the infantry.
An Alpha stands 9m tall, comparable to a Destroid.
Now do the math for the invid where plenty of the models would be less than half the size of the alpha (10-18ft)... and then the cyclones (the single most numerous human mecha in that series) that are 1/5 the size of that alpha. Even the Southern Cross hovertank is IIRC around 22ft and the Logan is significantly smaller than that.
Some mild fudging of scale would be acceptable. A full scale change would not. Infantry being extremely small is fine by me, as that is how my Battletech infantry are. Also note, the scale is fairly inconsistent in the series, and in some scenes things appear larger than in others.
Making an Alpha Fighter chest height to a VF-1 and the Hover tanks waist height to a VF-1 would be fine in my eyes, YMMV, but it is not that far off. Invid Scouts and such are almost infantry scale so maybe up them to be a little bigger than the infantry.
Nope. Remember that this is Harmony Gold we're dealing with. Supposedly one that cares SO MUCH about authenticity that is the reason we have such ridiculous "miniatures".
I wouldn't purchase models in a different scale, that would actually be the end of me being a customer. I wouldn't have backed it to begin with if they hadn't indicated they were going to remain consistent across all eras.
totalfailure wrote: Hopefully someone at GHQ has some sense, and notices that this game is dead, dead, dead, and doesn't waste the time making molds and masters for stuff a tiny fraction of the customer base might even consider. Most people are just hoping they get their crap at some point now, and kiss off Palladium ASAP.
GHQ has been asking for months for customers who buy their models to use for Robotech to let them know so that they are able to measure interest. Obviously, they are selling enough models in connection with Robotech to believe that they can make more money from it.
I'm sure it will be a big winner for them Meanwhile, isn't it time for another session with your man-god Kevin? Ruler of the known universe, purveyor of RPGs that were outdated 30 years ago?
Oh, my. You posted your uninformed opinion; I corrected you with a fact.
And for that you take a limp swipe at me... totalfailure, indeed.
An Alpha stands 9m tall, comparable to a Destroid.
Now do the math for the invid where plenty of the models would be less than half the size of the alpha (10-18ft)... and then the cyclones (the single most numerous human mecha in that series) that are 1/5 the size of that alpha. Even the Southern Cross hovertank is IIRC around 22ft and the Logan is significantly smaller than that.
Some mild fudging of scale would be acceptable. A full scale change would not. Infantry being extremely small is fine by me, as that is how my Battletech infantry are. Also note, the scale is fairly inconsistent in the series, and in some scenes things appear larger than in others.
Making an Alpha Fighter chest height to a VF-1 and the Hover tanks waist height to a VF-1 would be fine in my eyes, YMMV, but it is not that far off. Invid Scouts and such are almost infantry scale so maybe up them to be a little bigger than the infantry.
Assuming I was interested in Genesis Climber MOSPEADA and Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, as opposed to Macross Plus, I'd want things to be in-scale within series, and near-scale across series.
I would buy in-scale YF-21 Omega One / VF-22 Sturmvogel II in a heart beat. Even if they had 20% more parts than the current VF-1s.
Assuming I was interested in Genesis Climber MOSPEADA and Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, as opposed to Macross Plus, I'd want things to be in-scale within series, and near-scale across series.
I would buy in-scale YF-21 Omega One / VF-22 Sturmvogel II in a heart beat. Even if they had 20% more parts than the current VF-1s.
This. Scale changes not withstanding, i don't care a whit about either Southern Cross or Mospeada. I might buy a good Mospeada bike mini because they look cool, but there are already oodles of options for that, and as for the rest? Not in the market.
Anything else in this scale for stuff from the Macross universe, though? I might swallow it down even if it still was done by Palladium. But as that's impossible, I'm not very concerned about it
n815e wrote: I wouldn't purchase models in a different scale, that would actually be the end of me being a customer. I wouldn't have backed it to begin with if they hadn't indicated they were going to remain consistent across all eras.
totalfailure wrote: Hopefully someone at GHQ has some sense, and notices that this game is dead, dead, dead, and doesn't waste the time making molds and masters for stuff a tiny fraction of the customer base might even consider. Most people are just hoping they get their crap at some point now, and kiss off Palladium ASAP.
GHQ has been asking for months for customers who buy their models to use for Robotech to let them know so that they are able to measure interest. Obviously, they are selling enough models in connection with Robotech to believe that they can make more money from it.
I'm sure it will be a big winner for them Meanwhile, isn't it time for another session with your man-god Kevin? Ruler of the known universe, purveyor of RPGs that were outdated 30 years ago?
Oh, my. You posted your uninformed opinion; I corrected you with a fact.
And for that you take a limp swipe at me... totalfailure, indeed.
OH NOES! The official DakkaDakka Palladium juice licker has 'facted' me! I will go cry now....meanwhile, you can get back to encouraging GHQ to climb into the same grave as Tactics by making models no one is crying out for for a dead game. The local game store has a place for them all set, right next to the dusty copy of Tactics that's been there for 6 months. How will Palladium ever replace it, should it sell? After all, there where only pallets of unsold product 8' high sitting around at their open house.....
Ok guys, so a few things here....that post, at least to me, is mostly GAK. Last I spoke to PB they were unsure of what to do with scale. I spoke to them about multiple scales to look at both sides and Kevin seemed to like the idea. Things may have changed but last I know....scale will be the same AND in each box they will see about another slightly larger scale. So you buy cyclones and get a bunch in 6mm and some more in 15mm or something like that. Again, PB has nothing cemented and likely won't for a while to come. They move at the speed of molasses in winter. That's something we can all agree on.
Rules, there are ZERO plans on redoing the base rules. Some FAQ and also some Advanced Rules are in the works. Carmen has done some up. I have no idea what they contain. I've been asking for them to share them with a group of playtesters and MA's.
GHQ, well, they know how backers and PB feel and how things have gone. I have spoken to them a few times, in the last few months I have spoken to them more than PB actually. The whole sale a while back with 15% off was something I suggested to them to gauge interest. It was not super but it was not insignificant either, so there IS interest. Enough to warrant a continuation of things and looking into making more minis. GHQ prefers metal for a variety of reasons.
Now the thought was to use the lager scale minis to fill out a better and more detailed Skirmish style game. Knowing the license and limitations that will mean bringing the game closer the to RPG rules (Gasp!), that being the case we might just have to make our own. Honestly I enjoy the RRT rules. I've been pushing on a few things with the FAQ so if you had anything come up like transforming to fighter mode to get out of melee or Blast missile fixes they are in the works and I will pass along any others that crop up.
Personally, a lot of my stuff, almost all the Zentraedi, is with someone else to paint up. I traded one of my overzealous purchases ( I bought 3 BC's) to someone to paint the other 2. So I'm without Zen to play for a few months and also Armada Wave 1 is out so I'm loving that.
Hope this helps you all some. Just ask and I'll share what I can. I still check in here periodically.
Automatically Appended Next Post: On a side note, personally I'd rather have 8-10mm cyclones. After doing some really tiny paper standees, I'd rather have them a bit larger. Even the Battletech Power Armor that I have converted for use a Cyclones are more like 8-10mm and they have some decent detail compared to the 40K epic stuff that I have.
OH NOES! The official DakkaDakka Palladium juice licker has 'facted' me! I will go cry now....meanwhile, you can get back to encouraging GHQ to climb into the same grave as Tactics by making models no one is crying out for for a dead game. The local game store has a place for them all set, right next to the dusty copy of Tactics that's been there for 6 months. How will Palladium ever replace it, should it sell? After all, there where only pallets of unsold product 8' high sitting around at their open house.....
You aren't very good at engaging people intelligently, are you?
The more you post, the sillier you look.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
o you buy cyclones and get a bunch in 6mm and some more in 15mm or something like that.
That's not such a great idea, because it forces people to pay for something they might not want.
o you buy cyclones and get a bunch in 6mm and some more in 15mm or something like that.
That's not such a great idea, because it forces people to pay for something they might not want.
Well, I understand, but
1. Cyclones and Invid for the most part are pretty small.
2. This will allow one mold to kill 2 things.
3. Larger mecha may very well come in both sizes and purchased separately.
4. It's way to early either way to be worried about scale when we still have a while till we see wave 2.
Automatically Appended Next Post: At least that is how I see it. If Wave 2 was going to be this year it might be something to look into but I doubt it.
I just wish they would focus on doing what they need to do instead of thinking about ways to screw up the next batch.
As I've written elsewhere, having this stuff out in the world (possible scale change, rules change, media change) is detrimental. The game has been out for six months, they haven't even gotten the second wave to backers or in stores and they are already discussing with people major changes.
That doesn't give anyone confidence and considering the hurdles they keep putting up for themselves they should work on stabilizing the game rather than sending out the message that "get into this now and we're gonna screw you over later on."
Kevin is just clueless and bumbling and he is ruining the best, most profitable product he has released.
"We want to produce high quality miniatures." Eric Smith walks by and hands him some Shapeways crap. "Why do we need to go to professional designers and production companies when we can just have this 3D junk made instead? I'm sure people will love it."
PB moves slow enough that I doubt this is anywhere on their radar other than casual conversation. A while back I asked specifically because this had become a big deal on the FB page.
A lot of this so called "info" is totally news to me so I really doubt it's validity.
I think it is more of an outreach of a fan that got a bit overzealous in trying to whip up people in a positive way. While it was meant well it's completely unsubstantiated.
Kevin is not much hands on when it come to RRT. Every time I've spoken to them on it and that we've had a conference call on it he was not present. That right there tells me he is not dogging RRT like he is known to with the RPG stuff and that gives me some hope, albeit a small light.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I've NEVER heard from anyone until today about PB 3D printing anything with RRT.....it's nonsensical.
Assuming I was interested in Genesis Climber MOSPEADA and Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, as opposed to Macross Plus, I'd want things to be in-scale within series, and near-scale across series.
I would buy in-scale YF-21 Omega One / VF-22 Sturmvogel II in a heart beat. Even if they had 20% more parts than the current VF-1s.
This. Scale changes not withstanding, i don't care a whit about either Southern Cross or Mospeada. I might buy a good Mospeada bike mini because they look cool, but there are already oodles of options for that, and as for the rest? Not in the market.
Anything else in this scale for stuff from the Macross universe, though? I might swallow it down even if it still was done by Palladium. But as that's impossible, I'm not very concerned about it
Exactly.
Though it would be fun to see what would happen if PB were to launch a KS for Mospeada or Southern Cross. I might even toss a buck in the hat to comment.
But really, I'm far more interested in Macross-related stuff. Not non-Macross Robotech, definitely not before Wave 2 gets squared away.
Mike1975 wrote: Kevin is not much hands on when it come to RRT. Every time I've spoken to them on it and that we've had a conference call on it he was not present. That right there tells me he is not dogging RRT like he is known to with the RPG stuff and that gives me some hope, albeit a small light.
I worked for a guy not too different from Kevin as far as I can tell.
Him not being there is not a good sign.
It allows him to claim no knowledge of decisions made.
It then allows him to change whatever he wants because no-one "kept him informed".
How do you think he gets away with those famous last minute re-writes?
If he is there for every stage of it, it would be harder to justify and run the risk of appearing to contradict himself.
Either that or he feels sufficiently out of his depth he is avoiding the meetings to save face.
So even though PB didn't want to undermine the backers this small nugget of info is out.
1. Wave 2 is expected due in December 2015, possibly sept/october but not likely...
They really are trying to get it out there.
2. Max and Miriyia gencon minis are likely to be re-released to KS backers with additional exclusive products (no specifics yet)
3. The "Advanced" rulebook is on its way. It is currently going through some editing and tweaking.
Some of the rules in question (blast markers shooting at the ground) are the result of certain people making changes in the final rules that were not caught before printing.
(Some things were also blamed on certain people, such as a lack of unit points and content in the main rulebook, etc)
I talked to Carmen personally at the Open House and about the rulebook, etc. He was unhappy with the final result and had some choice words for some people that I can't name. Anyways...if you look at the rules and layout from a board game perspective it makes more sense, most board games use lots of cards, etc. (Looking at you Fantasy Flight Games).
However, from a war game perspective it doesn't make any sense at all. They know this and they are seeking to rectify the situation if at all possible.""
Cypher-xv wrote: So even though PB didn't want to undermine the backers this small nugget of info is out.
I take that with the same BelAZ of salt as I did the previous report.
Cypher-xv wrote: 1. Wave 2 is expected due in December 2015, possibly sept/october but not likely...
They really are trying to get it out there.
I don't doubt that they think that (on either count). I've just seen nothing to suggest the first is possible, or that we shouldn't doubt the latter.
Regarding the shipping, when will they ever fething learn? It's exactly what we saw said two years ago, almost two years to the day. May 21st, 2013, PBWU, "With any luck, we’ll have Kickstarter materials shipping to you by October or November (no promises)".
And we had seen the same level of progress then for everything, as we've seen now, for Wave 2. The only way this is IMO achievable, is if they've held back everything. The remaining digital sculpts, all the PPP's, all the test sprues. Which they have no reason to hold back, unless they're afraid the "few dozen negative voices" are worth keeping the remaining 5300+ backers, and anyone who jumped in at retail, completely in the dark.
As for the "really are trying", again, we've seen very little evidence of that. Putting out an informative Update showing exactly where the progress is, would be a start. Keeping up the barest of communications is not hard. Half an hour, once a week, or an hour once every two, to put up a "Here's where we are" should NOT be difficult. They can find the time to photoshop ducks. But what we've seen, is that when convention time comes around, and with two books, and several auxillary things happening, which we KNOW about (because they've kept us informed on THAT), why should we believe that there's meaningful progress behind the scenes, when history shows that just doesn't happen?
Cypher-xv wrote: 2. Max and Miriyia gencon minis are likely to be re-released to KS backers with additional exclusive products (no specifics yet)
And if this hadn't been utterly bolloxed from the start, maybe it'd be seen as a genuine olive branch. Their adamant refusal to consider this at the time, coupled with a two year wait, isn't likely to do much good. Especially for those people who paid significant markups to scalpers because they were specifically told they could NOT get these any other way.
The "additional exclusive" stuff, again, it could do as much harm as good, trying to force it into the Kickstarter. Because, anything being done here, and in time for Wave 2, is delaying Wave 2. And I'd be curious how the "exclusive" thing would go over with the non-backer crowd. "Hey, I bought this game at retail six months ago, and now I find out there's stuff coming out I'll not be able to get?". It's a fine line they'll have to walk.
And given how well they handled the Survey last time around, that's got the potential to be another clusterfeth too.
Cypher-xv wrote: 3. The "Advanced" rulebook is on its way. It is currently going through some editing and tweaking.
Some of the rules in question (blast markers shooting at the ground) are the result of certain people making changes in the final rules that were not caught before printing.
(Some things were also blamed on certain people, such as a lack of unit points and content in the main rulebook, etc)
Oh, the throwing under the bus of the Ninja Division staff is classic Palladium. Umm... Who were the people who approved it for printing? Either the people at Palladium either saw the changes, and didn't care (until now, when complaints are raised), or the people at Palladium didn't see the changes, didn't do their jobs (given book editting is one of their primary tasks in their day to day operations), and printed a book they didn't properly check.
Sorry, no matter which way you spin this one, it's on Palladium. ESPECIALLY given reports were that this book was in final layout September 26, 2013, KS#113, "The rulebook is in final layout, and should be sent in for approvals sometime next week" and locked down December 13, 2013, PBWU, "The rule book is done, laid out and approved.". That's MONTHS before it needed to go into printing.
Cypher-xv wrote: I talked to Carmen personally at the Open House and about the rulebook, etc. He was unhappy with the final result and had some choice words for some people that I can't name. Anyways...if you look at the rules and layout from a board game perspective it makes more sense, most board games use lots of cards, etc. (Looking at you Fantasy Flight Games).
However, from a war game perspective it doesn't make any sense at all. They know this and they are seeking to rectify the situation if at all possible.""
Yeah, because no TTG uses cards/datasheets to simplify army lists in their wargames. Except Battletech, Malifaux, Warmahordes, and pretty much anything that uses any system that actively tracks damage and expendables (like ammunition).
And wasn't their a claim that they were unhappy with ND's work, and did a full rewrite anyway? So either they did, and this is the result, or they didn't, and despite having significant time (due to the delays on the plastics), either chose not to fix it, or didn't care enough to fix it.
What I DO know, is that if this new book is in any way supplanting the initial book, especially for official games, and the backers are going to be forced to pony up the dough, there's going to be a LOT of screaming. And as n815e pointed out earlier, retail buyers only paid for this six months ago, and their book is already obsolete? Yeah, that's gonna make people happy too.
Palladium employees criticizing others on book layout? That's ironic given their outdated rpgs including the ones carmen specifically praised in his old youtube channel in order to get the job. Also, they had an extra fething year to fix whatever it was they didn't like since they screwed up the production so long; why the hell didn't they fix both the content and layout during THAT time? Other companies concept, plan, hire, design/write, finalize, and produce 250+ page RPG books in less time.
Also, what is the issue with blast markers targeting the ground? Finally, as for max and miriya, that ship has sailed for me long ago and I couldn't care. They screwed over backers when it mattered (2 weeks after the pledge manager closed) and now them selling it is not a fan service but rather stinks of desperation to try and get a few more bucks from backers before they lose them. The new book will be times likely to fit in at the same time as wave to to try and sell it to those customers prior to shipping.
Sorry, no matter which way you spin this one, it's on Palladium. ESPECIALLY given reports were that this book was in final layout September 26, 2013, KS#113, "The rulebook is in final layout, and should be sent in for approvals sometime next week" and locked down December 13, 2013, PBWU, "The rule book is done, laid out and approved.". That's MONTHS before it needed to go into printing.
*snip*
And wasn't their a claim that they were unhappy with ND's work, and did a full rewrite anyway? So either they did, and this is the result, or they didn't, and despite having significant time (due to the delays on the plastics), either chose not to fix it, or didn't care enough to fix it.
Considering they were working on the painting guide that was included in the rulebook over a year later (and hawking it for months during and even still now), the idea that the book was in final layout was a bunch of crap. They did say they were rewriting significant portions of it because it wasn't up to spec so, combined with the over one year delay, ALL issues with the book (whether perceived or real on their part) are 100% fully in their court. You don't get to claim to rewrite it, take over 16 months to do it, and THEN blame the previous guy.
Who is the author of the Facebook crap? If reading it wasn't enough, Thomas roache liking it just confirms its drivel.
Joyboozer, please keep me out of your comments, since I have done nothing to you. What I choose to like on facebook should not be up to your uninformed interpretation.
3. The "Advanced" rulebook is on its way. It is currently going through some editing and tweaking.
Some of the rules in question (blast markers shooting at the ground) are the result of certain people making changes in the final rules that were not caught before printing.
(Some things were also blamed on certain people, such as a lack of unit points and content in the main rulebook, etc)
Oh, the throwing under the bus of the Ninja Division staff is classic Palladium. Umm... Who were the people who approved it for printing? Either the people at Palladium either saw the changes, and didn't care (until now, when complaints are raised), or the people at Palladium didn't see the changes, didn't do their jobs (given book editting is one of their primary tasks in their day to day operations), and printed a book they didn't properly check.
Never played their RPGs did you. The "person" is the same one that never let a book go to print without rewrite part of it or nearly the whole thing, ie. KS the owner of PB.
warboss wrote: Palladium employees criticizing others on book layout? That's ironic given their outdated rpgs including the ones carmen specifically praised in his old youtube channel in order to get the job. Also, they had an extra fething year to fix whatever it was they didn't like since they screwed up the production so long; why the hell didn't they fix both the content and layout during THAT time? Other companies concept, plan, hire, design/write, finalize, and produce 250+ page RPG books in less time.
And by "less time" we mean "a fraction of the time, or maybe a thousandth of the time, if we're looking at Mechanoid Space".
Case in point: Feng Shui, another KS I backed. the campaign ended last october 18th, with a release date for everything on august this year (including pdfs, print, etc). it also hit a lot of stretch goals, and the final book is 358 pages of gorgeous layout, with dozens and dozens of completely new, full color art.
We got the pdfs the weekend of may 1st, and the books were sent to print then. They expect to get them back in 8 weeks. So yeah, less than six months, total. And the book is drop-dead gorgeous.
Noir wrote: Never played their RPGs did you. The "person" is the same one that never let a book go to print without rewrite part of it or nearly the whole thing, ie. KS the owner of PB.
Text doesn't convey it well, but I'm pretty sure Morgan is being rhetorical here.
And it ties into his point; with the MASSIVE rewrites that are part of Kevin's reputation, the "omg things were changed we didn't know wth!?" rings awfully hollow.
Also makes it all the more galling that Kevin supposedly doesn't even know how to play.
Forar wrote: Also makes it all the more galling that Kevin supposedly doesn't even know how to play.
Now, now, it's easy when you don't give a gak.
Clarity is not our strong suit today.
It's not galling that he doesn't know how to play in particular.
The person who *edited the book* should presumably know how to play, otherwise mechanical issues or oversights aren't nearly as likely to get caught.
I mean, assuming they want to catch more than spelling and grammatical errors, which, well... obviously... that's kind of a problem in and of itself.
It'd be like me trying to edit a 40k book. I've never played the game, 'throw a bunch of d6's, and stacked saves are obnoxious' are about as much as I know about the game. Also Orkz waaaaagh dakka etc.
I might catch a bunch of typoes, but aside from basic math catches ("+200 seems like an awfully big bonus to a 1d6... I'm guessing that should be a 2? Maaaybe a 20?") there are likely untold particulars I'd miss.
Forar wrote: Also makes it all the more galling that Kevin supposedly doesn't even know how to play.
Now, now, it's easy when you don't give a gak.
How can you expect him to know how to play when it's been out for only a few weeks (in the ROW) to 8 months in the US? He doesn't even know how to play his RPGs that have been out for 20-30 years (depending on which one) largely unchanged.
Who is the author of the Facebook crap? If reading it wasn't enough, Thomas roache liking it just confirms its drivel.
Joyboozer, please keep me out of your comments, since I have done nothing to you. What I choose to like on facebook should not be up to your uninformed interpretation.
Remember that the next time you choose to lie to backers on kickstarter claiming Palladium will have only minimal involvement in this project you open yourself to criticism.
Edit - you know, you're right, this whole project is just completely toxic, I don't know you and I don't have any right to talk about you, this mess isn't your fault. It's Kevin Siembieda, he has a lot to answer for, he's pissed a lot of people off then ran and hid his head in the sand.
My apologies, Thomas.
Forar wrote: Also makes it all the more galling that Kevin supposedly doesn't even know how to play.
Now, now, it's easy when you don't give a gak.
Clarity is not our strong suit today.
It's not galling that he doesn't know how to play in particular.
The person who *edited the book* should presumably know how to play, otherwise mechanical issues or oversights aren't nearly as likely to get caught.
I mean, assuming they want to catch more than spelling and grammatical errors, which, well... obviously... that's kind of a problem in and of itself.
It'd be like me trying to edit a 40k book. I've never played the game, 'throw a bunch of d6's, and stacked saves are obnoxious' are about as much as I know about the game. Also Orkz waaaaagh dakka etc.
I might catch a bunch of typoes, but aside from basic math catches ("+200 seems like an awfully big bonus to a 1d6... I'm guessing that should be a 2? Maaaybe a 20?") there are likely untold particulars I'd miss.
You're absolutely right in that's what one would expect from a professional. But... well, when said professional doesn't give a gak, he doesn't bother to learn to play before fething around with the book, either. That's what the Kev has been doing with Palladium's books for about 30 years now, and by golly it's worked mighty fine, so why change?
It's a way of doing things that I expect most professionals to find abhorrent, but not this one.
Forar wrote: And it ties into his point; with the MASSIVE rewrites that are part of Kevin's reputation, the "omg things were changed we didn't know wth!?" rings awfully hollow.
Also makes it all the more galling that Kevin supposedly doesn't even know how to play.
I would think this would make him all the more hesitant to mess with the actual rules.
Anything remotely RPG I could see him feeling entitled but I am a tiny bit doubtful the rules portion got the Kevin treatment.
I figure Kevin is looking at it as "not invented here" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here) so has been largely ignoring the game as we have seen.
I need only mention "dice bag".
It may be a bit trying on the patience, but there IS an opportunity here to bundle a Wave 2 package with the "advanced rules" and some previously unavailable models and it could be flogged like a "new release but better!!". At least when/if Wave 2 happens, it has a marketing opportunity to get a last shot at publicity or the game will be dead as many have determined.
Get me my darn models, if rules updates makes the games more palatable out of the box and I do not have to house rule the heck out of them: it is a bonus.
Morgan Vening wrote: Oh, the throwing under the bus of the Ninja Division staff is classic Palladium. Umm... Who were the people who approved it for printing? Either the people at Palladium either saw the changes, and didn't care (until now, when complaints are raised), or the people at Palladium didn't see the changes, didn't do their jobs (given book editting is one of their primary tasks in their day to day operations), and printed a book they didn't properly check.
Never played their RPGs did you. The "person" is the same one that never let a book go to print without rewrite part of it or nearly the whole thing, ie. KS the owner of PB.
Yes, I'm aware Kevin's the person at the top, and his history of meddling, but the reason I referred to "people", was as others pointed out, Kevin has laid claim to not being particularly involved. So, unless Kevin took the draft copy from Ninja Division, and didn't let any of the people otherwise more "hands on" than himself (Wayne, Jeff, Carmen, other people behind the scenes, I'm not sure who's listed in the book's credits), I felt "people" was a more apt description. Sure, Kevin is ultimately responsible, but if this was a delegated task, there's enough blame to go around.
All I know is throwing ND under the bus seems weak most of the time, but in this case, it truly rings hollow.
Joyboozer wrote: Edit - you know, you're right, this whole project is just completely toxic, I don't know you and I don't have any right to talk about you, this mess isn't your fault. It's Kevin Siembieda, he has a lot to answer for, he's pissed a lot of people off then ran and hid his head in the sand.
My apologies, Thomas.
Stuff like this makes me feel like I am at the right website / forum.
Well said on all counts.
Joyboozer, Thank You for the apology, I had almost given up hope that there are some reasonable people.
I would like to say that there is alot of misinformation out there. Much of it paints PB in broad negative strokes and creates the toxicity that everyone is seeing.
Should any of the actual history and facts of the situation come out then things would be viewed differently, but that will never matter, since many people are prone to judge Kevin as the bad guy, no matter what PB does or says it will be deemed negative.
WilhelmRochRedDuke wrote: Joyboozer, Thank You for the apology, I had almost given up hope that there are some reasonable people.
I would like to say that there is alot of misinformation out there. Much of it paints PB in broad negative strokes and creates the toxicity that everyone is seeing.
Should any of the actual history and facts of the situation come out then things would be viewed differently, but that will never matter, since many people are prone to judge Kevin as the bad guy, no matter what PB does or says it will be deemed negative.
If your that concerned, could you please give us some insight into what you see? I think communication is key here.
The game isn't selling that well if PB still has stacks of core boxes. I think a large part of it is the negative reaction the wargaming community has had toward PB due to a lack of communication on their part along with the quality of the models. You could help rectify that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit: I hope Kevin and the gang are not blaming the lackluster sales on a few obnoxious people. They don't have that kind of power. People who don't post here or other places are choosing not to buy the game due in part to the high piece count and other personal factors.
B) We won't even get that much, as it would require Palladium to admit they can make a mistake.
C) That's why I said we'll probably never get it.
The only hope I think that exists to see that level of information and transparency is a 'Bill Coffin Spills the Beans' style manifesto from someone anonymous, and even that seems highly unlikely, as the number of people 'in the know' is likely small enough that it'd probably be immediately obvious who spoke up even without identifying characteristics.
Maybe if PB collapsed at some point in the coming years, or some other event that took most of the bite out of potential litigation/NDA enforcement/etc.
Please do not confuse "guesses" made due to lack of information from PB.
Their silence breeds speculation so the only real facts we have is they are unwilling to discuss much.
They have demonstrated a rather amateur means of handling customer relations.
Much of it paints PB in broad negative strokes and creates the toxicity that everyone is seeing.
The broad negativity is backers dropped a fair bit of money up front with the "promise" of a quarter year wait until the KS was "funded" then dates changed.
Shipping cost changed depending on what you ordered (after funding again).
The toxicity is where many things were said up until the point where they had our money so some measure of buyer remorse was felt.
Stating Ninja Division was managing the project was the ultimate bait and switch: if I knew PB was taking control, I would have waited for retail (if it happened at all).
Should any of the actual history and facts of the situation come out then things would be viewed differently, but that will never matter, since many people are prone to judge Kevin as the bad guy, no matter what PB does or says it will be deemed negative.
But what about prior well documented history?
Do we not typically judge present behavior on past?
What is rather telling is if the "facts came out" and things would be viewed differently: why not publish it?
Why not admit things went wrong?
It would do so much to remove the "toxicity".
When so many controversial moments came up they all "seemed" to boil down to PB looking to make or save money at someone's expense.
I am sorry, but broad statements along the line "if you only knew!" I have to call bull pucks on.
Kevin wants anything with his name attached to be "just so" his way.
There is some pride in that, some ownership.
It also has an overriding conceit/view/opinion that others cannot handle what he does.
He cannot let others better equipped to get the job done: he is his own worst enemy and we are along for the ride.
This is where that "paternal" tone can drive backers crazy when the guy has your stuff and plays coy "it is coming soon, just you wait!".
I wonder if another thing contributing to "toxicity" is the fact we've gotten almost three months of "SOMETHING EXCITING IS COMING SOON. THERE'S SO MUCH TO TALK ABOUT!!! IT'S DEFINITELY EXCITING!!!!". Particularly when the last update that actually contained garbage(3 new models, of which only two were new, one of which was absolutely terrible, none of which were actually physical).
I wonder if crap like that actually worked to generate excitement among the faithful?
B) We won't even get that much, as it would require Palladium to admit they can make a mistake.
A) for SJG & PB, YES IT IS!!!
B) there is a very big difference in stating "mistakes were made", "we made a mistake" and "I made a mistake". In the case of SJG & PB, the statement will be "mistakes were made".
And let's be clear, none of the delays are SJG's or PB's fault. Things happened, and mistakes were made. That's the long and the short of it.
WilhelmRochRedDuke wrote: Joyboozer, Thank You for the apology, I had almost given up hope that there are some reasonable people.
I hope to say that someday about the folks who primarily only post on the palladium forums to the exclusion of other venues but I have yet to encounter more than one person.
I would like to say that there is alot of misinformation out there. Much of it paints PB in broad negative strokes and creates the toxicity that everyone is seeing.
Should any of the actual history and facts of the situation come out then things would be viewed differently, but that will never matter, since many people are prone to judge Kevin as the bad guy, no matter what PB does or says it will be deemed negative.
Misinformation? Do you think that has anything to do with the complete vacuum of actual information from the horse's mouth? We've only gotten now FOR MONTHS vague assurances and lies from the other end of the Palladium horse. That negativity (which I agree is significant) that you talk about is directly proportional to the significant delays. It is also proportional to the significant lack of real progress updates as well as the sheer amount of lies, backpedaling, and rolling release dates based on apparently astrology and fortune cookies moreso than actual project management.
You talk about behind the scenes drama but we only see the end result. Are the other two companies due their share of blame? I don't doubt it. HG is notorious for being a douche and ND had a very late (although at this point LESS late than robotech now) KS as well and split from the company that worked with them on it. That of course does NOT erase well documented decades of hubris, incompetence, and stubborness on the part of palladium. Palladium worked by themselves in the field that they have 30 years experience in to crowdfund two book that were ALSO massively late (over a year to two years); should we blame ND for that too? Or maybe HG? Or maybe the Crisis of Treachery? Or the current Crisis of Treacheryer Part Deux? People judge Palladium based on the current events within the framework of their past sordid history. I gave Palladium another chance with this KS and the only thing they've accomplished fully so far is to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they're still the same exact company that I stopped liking over a decade earlier. They have learned nothing in the intervening years.
Apologies as I haven't followed this whole Kickstarter debacle as it's gone on.
I've seen a copy of this game at my FLGS and have considered picking it up. However, there seems to be a lot of negativity surrounding the company and so I wanted to get opinions of my fellow Dakkanauts: is the core game worth purchasing?
Accolade wrote: Apologies as I haven't followed this whole Kickstarter debacle as it's gone on.
I've seen a copy of this game at my FLGS and have considered picking it up. However, there seems to be a lot of negativity surrounding the company and so I wanted to get opinions of my fellow Dakkanauts: is the core game worth purchasing?
The answer is: depends. Do you have an active robotech group in your area that you'll be joining or will the responsibility to start one be entirely on your shoulders? Do you have the ability/interest to use the minis for battletech? Do you mind that things the size of a spacemarine's helmet/head and limbs split into two to three parts making the average figure have two dozen parts or more? Do you mind gap filling seams on the front of every limb and frequently multiple times on the torso? Do you have a morale issue with supporting a company that will break promises, obfuscate the truth, and simply treat you like a red headed bastard stepchild customer when it suits them even a little? If you bring up legitimate concerns and issues through the official channels, are you prepared to be at best ignored or at worst sanctioned for trolling both officially by the company as well as unofficially by their fan friends? If more than a couple of those bother you, don't buy it unless you're a huge robotech fanboy (and even that isn't enough for some once you look at it). If you can get through the sheer stupidity of the sprue designs as well as the wholey unnecessary drama caused by the company and their actions, you get a good amount of product that looks nice for a very low price. I can't speak with any certainty about the rules because I didn't get that far (too many of those previous bullet points killed my inner fanboy).
You seem to think I give a gak what what PB thinks 'full information is'? They think that their newsletters aren't a massive waste of time, we can already rule out their opinion on that basis alone.
I'm talking about a real drilling down of events, time lines, cause->effect, etc. 'X happened, which caused Y, which was exacerbated by Z, which led to delay 1, 2 and 3. We attempted to right the course through _____, but half of it only made things worse, extenuating circumstances beyond our control happened, and maybe telling the dock workers to stop being donkey caves with a bag of poop labelled "love Palladium" might have been a bad idea.' An outright invasive and painstakingly thorough investigation, like the procedure it's named after.
It requires introspection and a willingness to recognize ones own mistakes. To step back and not take things so personally. And I have seen it done by other projects. If well documented it can prove to be an invaluable learning experience and a way to assess ones strengths, weaknesses, and establish better baselines in the business model/practices.
@Accolade: what Warboss said. Also, look on the secondary market (ebay, area specific markets like Craigslist, etc), as there may be backers looking to offload some spare material. If you Facebook, Mike's "unofficial Robotech Tactics" page has some backers selling stuff off as well.
How good a 'deal' you might get will depend on what the local shop is selling for, what taxes might be involved, how much shipping from a backer might cost, etc, but I know most of what I sold over the last half year was well below retail prices, even when accounting for shipping.
Forar, that would require planning and forsight on the part of palladium that would at least rival that of a beaver making a dam. They've got a long way to go.
You seem to think I give a gak what what PB thinks 'full information is'?
You seem to be under the grossly mistaken impression that PB's world doesn't revolve around Kevin, and that SJG's world doesn't revolve around SJG. These guys substitute reality with their own whims. You seem to be in deep denial that they actually give a flying feth what you want. If you want to go on a pointless crusade of trying to squeeze information out of them, be my guest. I think you'll have better luck gold-plating a turd, but the business of tilting at windmills is entirely on you.
Me, I'm just hoping that Wave 2 comes out by the end of the year.
Accolade wrote: Apologies as I haven't followed this whole Kickstarter debacle as it's gone on.
I've seen a copy of this game at my FLGS and have considered picking it up. However, there seems to be a lot of negativity surrounding the company and so I wanted to get opinions of my fellow Dakkanauts: is the core game worth purchasing?
Whoa, Warboss is not a happy camper.
Assuming you know nothing about Robotech.
Go watch some shows on YouTube, I will wait.
Did you like what you saw?
Remember it was a long time ago but transforming robots! and giant bad guys!
Okay, the giant bad guy models are quite nice, I think you will like them.
Now, how good are you at putting models together?
Do you REALLY like it?
20 parts about for a single Veritech figure and you need to build 3 of each type (total 12 for a 4 man squadron).
It will work out to about 30 minutes a model to assemble with the mentioned filling.
Not for the faint at heart but try out a battleoid first, they are more humane and look good.
Have you played 40k?
If so, these rules should be easy enough.
I personally find I have to host and supply both armies so-far.
Going to play tonight BTW.
I would suggest getting the Drop Zone Commander City as a really good and fast means of a pretty area to game.
Give it some thought.
I think you really have to like Robotech (Macross) the anime a whole lot before you would invest the effort in making the game look good.
Best (non-raging) advice I can give. Oh yeah, RUN run while you can... it is too late for us....
Yeah, I know. Which is why it's baffling that JohnnyNipples (my mind seems to combine names and avatars together) feels the need to split hairs on just how unlikely it is.
It's subtle but I tried to express my disappointment at this two year delayed and ongoing process. I went from plugging the game at my local store and to other friends across the country, starting the thread here to advertise it, creating the robotech dakka track, and even making a promo youtube video out of excitement that I'd finally be getting a Robotech game... to this. Thanks, Palladium!
Going to play tonight BTW.
Let us know how it goes and if you use some of the house rules you mentioned earlier.
You seem to think I give a gak what what PB thinks 'full information is'?
You seem to be under the grossly mistaken impression that PB's world doesn't revolve around Kevin, and that SJG's world doesn't revolve around SJG. These guys substitute reality with their own whims. You seem to be in deep denial that they actually give a flying feth what you want. If you want to go on a pointless crusade of trying to squeeze information out of them, be my guest. I think you'll have better luck gold-plating a turd, but the business of tilting at windmills is entirely on you.
Me, I'm just hoping that Wave 2 comes out by the end of the year.
Dude, seriously, what is your problem?
I can wistfully wish for a dozen celebrities to show up at my home to ravish me, that doesn't mean I'm projecting anything on anyone.
I'm actively not in denial about anything; I even said it wasn't likely to happen, holy feth seriously what is wrong with your reading comprehension?
I'm not crusading for anything. It was a fething throw away post and you're trying to make it out like I'm calling for torches and pitchforks.
I SAID I DO NOT THINK PB IS CAPABLE OF DOING THIS, BUT IT'D BE NICE IF IT HAPPENED, EVEN THOUGH THEY CAN'T.
Accolade wrote: Apologies as I haven't followed this whole Kickstarter debacle as it's gone on.
I've seen a copy of this game at my FLGS and have considered picking it up. However, there seems to be a lot of negativity surrounding the company and so I wanted to get opinions of my fellow Dakkanauts: is the core game worth purchasing?
Whoa, Warboss is not a happy camper.
Assuming you know nothing about Robotech.
Go watch some shows on YouTube, I will wait.
Did you like what you saw?
Remember it was a long time ago but transforming robots! and giant bad guys!
Okay, the giant bad guy models are quite nice, I think you will like them.
Now, how good are you at putting models together?
Do you REALLY like it?
20 parts about for a single Veritech figure and you need to build 3 of each type (total 12 for a 4 man squadron).
It will work out to about 30 minutes a model to assemble with the mentioned filling.
Not for the faint at heart but try out a battleoid first, they are more humane and look good.
Have you played 40k?
If so, these rules should be easy enough.
I personally find I have to host and supply both armies so-far.
Going to play tonight BTW.
I would suggest getting the Drop Zone Commander City as a really good and fast means of a pretty area to game.
Give it some thought.
I think you really have to like Robotech (Macross) the anime a whole lot before you would invest the effort in making the game look good.
Best (non-raging) advice I can give. Oh yeah, RUN run while you can... it is too late for us....
I used to watch Robotech when I was a young teenager. I don't care for anime much these days, but I do have a nostalgic love for Robotech (remember playing the cell-shaded game that came out years ago). I played 40k in 6th, but I've begun reducing that collection and expanding into some smaller games like [i]All Quiet on the Martian Front[i], Dystopian Wars, Maelstrom (when it comes out!), and the Halo Fleet Game (again upcoming).
The models look nice, but they do sound tinkery. Company seems problematic as well. Hmm, I might have to give it some thought.
There's a video on mikes FB group with Kevin talking about rrt and the mistakes made on their part. Sorry there's no link for me to paste, you'll have to go and see it yourself.
Well, my flight was delayed two hours, so let's see what they have to see.
2.5 minutes in. Oh god this fething 'background music' is going to be droning through the whole thing, isn't it?
Interviewer; 'I remember 12 week delays getting mechwarrior figures through customs'.
Yeah no, not the same thing. D-, see me after class.
I would like to say that there is alot of misinformation out there. Much of it paints PB in broad negative strokes and creates the toxicity that everyone is seeing. Should any of the actual history and facts of the situation come out then things would be viewed differently, but that will never matter, since many people are prone to judge Kevin as the bad guy, no matter what PB does or says it will be deemed negative.
People that are excited about a game tend to talk about it and when the company isn't supplying anything worthwhile to talk about people start making up rumors or wishlisting and citing it as "official inside news" as they have nothing else to talk about. It doesn't happen just with Robotech, GW's information blackout strategy has a similar effect where what would be positive interest becomes toxic and counterproductive because of the wall that they place between the company and the audience.
There is absolutely nothing that would prevent Palladium from giving out some actual information or progress markers in their updates, not everything will be peaches and cream but the backers would prefer to hear the truth even if it's not good news, but instead all we get is more empty wheel spinning and being treated by a head in the sand attitude. They are keenly aware of the problems when they pop up but the people on the outside would never have a clue about it because PB never takes the time to address anything that might be viewed negatively with their backers.
What information that does come out is through 3rd party people who talk to Palladium through a convention or a phone call, as Palladium seems to be much more forward when discussing things in person. However this causes further disssenion as it always comes off as a he said, she said situation. Nobody can really trust what's being said because any information is always coming second hand and rarely from Palladium themselves. I'm sure there's plenty of times that Kevin has said something to you or Mike yet when you repeat it to the masses it's ignored, called inaccurate, biased, etc, that's because people dislike be given 2nd hand info even if it is correct. If things are to improve they need to hear these things directly from Palladium and if they can say it in person to some fan friend then there's absolutely no reason that same information shouldn't also be in the KS updates.
Not trying to attack you or Mike or anyone that's been trying to be a bridge between PB and the players, but PB really needs to step up and communicate directly to the backers and not try to use secondary channels for distributing information.
Our focus for the next few months is going to be heavily on Robotech® RPG Tactics™. We want to see RRT Wave Two released by the end of the year, but we have a number of other things coming sooner to support the game line that we think will please our Kickstarter backers and all our supporters very much. We had a good talk with Harmony Gold USA last week and they have green-lighted our plans. We are hammering out the final details right now and will be in a position to start revealing them the week of June 1, 2015.
We will also be working to get a few new book titles released before Gen Con Indy, including Robotech®: Expeditionary Force Marines™, amongst others."
Whelp, that's 20 minutes of my life (plus loading time, stupid airport wifi) I'll never get back.
It basically amounted to nothing, at least for those of us who have been paying attention. The interviewer seemed to be more interested in having a chat than getting answers, which may be his thing, but it wasn't remotely informative. While context can be important, I think I learned more about that dude's gaming history than anything else.
Shipping is hard! (Ignored that production took over a year longer than anticipated).
Wants KS backers to hear first! (Great; so tell us something)
HG has green lit... something.
Talk about tanks and infantry. Yes, yes, GHQ, we know.
Might skip Southern Cross, bit of an odd emphasis on having the Invid fight the Zentraedi.
More info 'coming soooooon!'
Sure it is.
I'm phone posting so feel free to add to the list if I missed anything. Each time I went to update here the YouTube app had to start loading info again so it's not exactly an exhaustive list.
"Wave Two released by the end of the year": oh yeah? Which year? Also don't bother mentioning that to any of the white knights, as it's clearly just an estimate and estimates don't count because *reasons*.
Cypher, thanks for the link . There are two parts to the interview linked below for the lazy like me:
I'm over halfway through the first and no real RRPGT info. There are two interesting nuggets though so far.
1) HG is just a joy to work with straight from Kevin. We can now officially cross them OFF THE LIST for companies to share the blame for the 2 year delay of RRPGT.
2) They didn't want to go for TMNT again at this time because "they'd want us to keep their deadlines". That made me chuckle.
Well, my flight was delayed two hours, so let's see what they have to see. The guy doing the interview is also not very good at it and does unboxing videos much better.
2.5 minutes in. Oh god this fething 'background music' is going to be droning through the whole thing, isn't it? Interviewer; 'I remember 12 week delays getting mechwarrior figures through customs'.
Yeah no, not the same thing. D-, see me after class.
So far, in the first video, the music is very loud compared to the voice and very annoying.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit: First video is useless except for a few lulz from a RRPGT perspective.
I think it's a great idea. The sheer entertainment we could derive from seeing a crowdfunded Open House 2016 happen several years late in 2018 will set a new low even for Palladium.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cypher-xv wrote: Since PB will be concentrating on everything else but wave two does this mean they can't afford to finish it and deliver to us?
They're always concentrating on everything and accomplishing almost nothing. One of their upcoming books that they're apparently selling an art-free beta version of (the Robotech marines book) was supposed to come out something like 5 years ago in its initial incarnation and since BEFORE the kickstarter in its current version. Two years ago, it just needed a bit more work and a few more pieces of art... and two years later it's "out" but without any art. LOL.
I don't think there was anything new in that video, was there? The interviewer spent half the time relating his own stories instead of asking a question and getting an answer frequently. For someone who did 40 interviews last gencon (he said that), he's not that good at it.
In any case, the next rolling date to be disappointed by is
"We had a good talk with Harmony Gold USA last week and they have green-lighted our plans. We are hammering out the final details right now and will be in a position to start revealing them the week of June 1, 2015."
We'll see how much real info they'll have by then. With a mention of a vacation week next week, I wouldn't expect anything at all to come out before then but then that's not really a change from the last few months anyways.
So he wants to expand the rrt line by making everything else besides wave two. I'm seriously thinking they can't afford to produce wave two or the KS exclusives.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In the video don't forget his jibe at mini war gamers as opposed to rpg gamers.
Cypher-xv wrote: So he wants to expand the rrt line by making everything else besides wave two. I'm seriously thinking they can't afford to produce wave two or the KS exclusives.
It's not a big stretch. Just based on exceeded labor estimates, things have to be running a little light. What was supposed to be 7 months work, has ballooned out to 24 and counting (if you take them at their word they've devoted as much time as they claim). Let alone all the other blown up costs (materials, specifically the price of the molds jumped, they admitted to blowing not insignificant amounts on advertising incorrect dates, split wave duplicated shipping costs, and shuffling the production timeline, etc). It gets even worse, if they used a portion of the kickstarter funds to pay for the retail part of the production run, if those retail sales aren't going great.
I'm not saying they're out of money at THIS point, but I wouldn't be surprised if all the delays and cost overruns have eaten through any contingency amounts, and that funding needed for the remaining work that hasn't been prepaid, is in excess of the KS funds remaining.
This would include
- any remaining developmental outsourced work (PPP's, sprue layouts, etc), made worse if the rumors re ND and the manufacturer splitting from PB bear out,
- any remaining developmental insourced work (as mentioned below in labor, any time and wages spent on this isn't spent on other things that'll generate revenue)
- the mold engraving for Wave 2 (I believe they purchased the blanks, but the engraving and test runs unless factored into the initial contract, aren't usually free)
- the Wave 2 production run,
- the Wave 2 container shipping
- the Wave 2 personalized shipping (as the money for shipping requested only factored in a single shipment per backer)
- and labor costs (during Wave 1 shipping, yes, they had some volunteers, but they also had what, 4+ salaried employees working 6+ days a week packaging, and not doing stuff that might otherwise help create revenue, ie, it was dead cost labor).
And with most of those increasing on a quarterly or yearly basis, the longer it goes on, the more expensive these things become.
Cypher-xv wrote: In the video don't forget his jibe at mini war gamers as opposed to rpg gamers.
For someone who doesn't want to sit through the whole 20 minutes, do you have a timecode, or a direct quote? Cause for the reasons others mentioned above, I REALLY don't want to have to listen to the whole thing.
Maybe. I know plenty of people that occupy both categories, but as a wargamer I wouldn't spend any of my time doing RPG-related stuff even though I like narrative games.
Nomeny wrote: Maybe. I know plenty of people that occupy both categories, but as a wargamer I wouldn't spend any of my time doing RPG-related stuff even though I like narrative games.
Yeah... and in what ways, pray tell, are wargamers different from roleplayers, exactly? What's that big difference? Is it that roleplayers don't want tight rulesets that help them get from the game what they want more easily? Or that roleplayers are willing to put up with more crap because they are playing more subjective games, not having tournaments? Or do they forge narratives (heh) whereas wargamers just want to duke it out?
Because honestly, I'm not sure what kind of sense can you get from a wild ass generalization the level of "wargamers are a totally different animal from roleplayers. I'm not saying it's good or bad, it just is", because if that was even a tiny bit true, there simply couldn't be people who enjoyed both.
Moreover taking into account where RPGs come from, of course...
Being completely honest, I really can't parse it any other way than "yeah, I really can't be arsed to go learn what wargamers want out of a wargame. They are weird and rare beasts, so I'll just go on with how I usually do stuff and bemoan them for being strange".
Almost everyone I've played with in an RPG campaign has also been a wargamer. That Venn diagram looks almost like two concentric circles in my experience.
TBH there is a difference between how you plan an RPG and how you play a Minis game. One you have a DM that is the final arbiter, hence things like Rifts with iffy rules and situations can be moderated and decided on. Minis games people turn to the rules so they MUST be tighter and well written. Just look at Armada. I had to watch online videos to fully understand some things like the how 3 command dials worked. And I was far from the only one. I did have to clarify some things with PB when I started like Blast and Close Formation too. Minis games the arbiter is the book and when 2 people can't agree on what is says.......
That being said, waiting a whole year for wave 2 with nothing in between would be stupid so you can blame me if you like but I've sent suggestions numerous times to PB on a scenario book, new sub-factions, and Advanced Rules to fill in some of the interim. I still think that is a good idea. It also gives us something more to work with but it needs to be done right. More crap will just make things worse.
I find those who like RPG's tend to be confused with "fluff" players.
It is the kind of person who wants a fairly accurate simulation of a subject source material.
I always know I have met one of these people when they say "but what about the weapons arc?", "it would be more cinematic this way...", "that rule does not make sense, this machine is way faster than the other...","but you should account for all the missiles individually, not as a group...".
The one commonality is we imagine the "scene" in out heads, the RPG players could say that war gamers just like to use less imagination with all those little models.
Funny, I do find that more talk of changing rules tend to lean toward trying to capture the feel of a game rather than to make it less clunky.
Games updates:
Got part of a game in last night, bit too much talking so not as much one would like. A few more observations as we played:
Yep, missiles really hurt.
"Inescapable" is painful, sometimes falling back on anti-missile fire is not fun compared to the option of "dodge".
Zent. pod normal missile fire hurts: think it is 9 points per missile and even if you roll with impact it is 5 points damage per missile (!!??).
Ever try shooting at a Glaug? Defence 7 is a son of a gun to hit, especially when the scout pod jams the guy shooting.
I really think the Pod Scout group is the way to go with the missile pods added on. That unit is mean with all the command points, the scout pod buff/de-buff while the missile pods shoot better.
Valkyries with the MLOPS are good for weathering the missile fire with anti-missile missiles and then unloading it's own.
Hey! The destroids in this case the Tomahawk die like dogs just like in the show! We are finding maneuverability is life. Their only 5" move would find them quickly out of cover and shot-up. They sure put out a beating before they die but I am finding movement and finding cover is pretty important.
Not like the movie: why does the Valk Sgt always seem to die first? Once the opponent knows he is that little bit better, he becomes target priority one.
When grouped together and sharing hits, I find for normal fire it works very nice. When a group of missiles come in, you want nothing to do with it or have two models die rather than one.
Yeah, still preferring the "house rules" we use: - where you dodge / anti-missile for each individual missile rather than a roll against each volley. Only 1 command point either case.
- "roll with impact" is succeed on 4+ for each hit rather than the guaranteed when spending a command point (we still only use one command point to cover all the hits or they would be gone too fast).
- The 4X MDC of buildings is looking a must: it got a workout this last game. Standing on buildings are death otherwise and the Zents could clear the pesky hard cover in very short order. I need to make DZC building ruins BTW.
- We have been ignoring the "steal the initiative" command point silliness, it is found to be a waste of CP's so-far.
When you roll, damage rounds down to a min of 1, not up.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Friendlies DO NOT block LOS and can provide hard cover. Keep you Glaug behind Pods and you VF-1J's behind some VF-1A's....
Automatically Appended Next Post: Dodge and Anti-Missile has always been against the entire volley BUT you need to roll against the highest attack roll.
Originally I did it where if you had 2 missiles that rolled a 6 and another a 7 and you rolled a 6 to dodge you managed to dodge the 2 sixes. I thought it worked better. The rules are an all or nothing affair but it is against the entire volley.
This is Great News
Also, just an 
(I kind of like it for some reason...)
Meanwhile, isn't it time for another session with your man-god Kevin? Ruler of the known universe, purveyor of 
