Wrath of Kings measuring tape
Update #26 · Aug 29, 2013 · 2 comments
Actual tape case may vary, this is just a mockup. We're getting a bunch of these customized with the Wrath of Kings logo since someone keeps stealing ours at shows, and we thought you might like to have one too! It's not exclusive or anything, but we highly doubt a lot of distributors are going to want to carry them so this is a good time to pick one up without extra postage.
Alpharius wrote: Will there only ever be these 5 factions for WoK?
There's already a 'mystery area' on the world map, along with the pirates/mercs of Fructus, or whatever that independent area is called. So there's definitely room for more factions.
Except some of the earliest stretch goals were for additional sculpts. However I can't figure out if that means there should be 6 sculpts of every basic troop, 6 sculpts of one troop type and 3 of the other, or 3 new sculpts split between the two basic types.
I'm tempted to get one of everything and perhaps an extra set of the large monster kits. Not quite sold on the bases however, and I'd need it to get to the 400k plus mark to really make it worthwhile.
It's a long weekend in the USA, so here's some more previews and fluff for you! These are characters that we're preparing in the studio for later release, and they are nowhere in tooling yet or balanced rules. However, they do offer a great peek ahead at what we have in store for WoK!
Goritsi Duke Anton don Genoria, the Headhunter
It is said that when werewolves tell each other stories around the campfire, it’s the legend of the Cannibal Duke that keeps them awake at night. This is only partly true, as Duke Anton is no myth. The former lord of Genoris and Genoria Duchy hails from the time of Old Scion Goritsi himself. As part of the Scion King’s retinue, Anton was one of the very first to accept the Gift. But, Duke Anton is old, and the signs of decay are upon him. Not every mind can withstand the passing centuries intact, and his body, though immensely powerful by even werewolf standards, is losing its war of attrition against time.
It is well known that werewolves stay young and vital by consuming flesh and blood, but livestock and game will no longer bear Duke Anton through the years. He has developed a taste for sentient prey, and he must slake this hunger at least once per moon. Even so, his degeneration is becoming more and more pronounced, and he has taken to the most bizarre and gruesome habits, such as wearing his prey’s skin as clothing, and he spends far more time in wolfen shape than human. Despite his mind’s slow degeneration, his head for tactics remains perfectly sound, and he brings the experience of many centuries to the battlefield. In command of his fellow Skorzas he can whip them into a whirlwind of death and claws like no other commander.
Nasier – Nasera Trasken, The Blind Hakar
Nasera Trasken joined the military as a Pelagarth Bloodmask who worked hard to become a respected Howl. Unfortunately the ship transporting her for a tour on Fructus Isle was intercepted by Felskar pirates. Their captain, a particularly cruel addanii, tried to prise her mask from her face. Instead, he settled for her eyes. She was cast adrift and eventually washed up on Fructus Isle. In the following years, Nasera forged a new mask that allowed her some modicum of sight and began a manhunt that redefined the term ‘relentless’. Now the pirate captain’s broken shell serves her as a second set of eyes and ‘attack dog’. On the battlefield, Nasera exhibits that same ferocious determination in hunting down the strongest opponents and setting her dog to work. They’re a shockingly effective team, if somewhat disturbing. Nasera is always stationed far from any diplomatic efforts involving Felskar.
Hadross – Ilva the Syren of Kaldeth Strait
The Syrens of Ophion are exclusively Deepwomen trained as communications specialists. It is said their songs can be heard for a thousand miles beneath the waves, and Syren outposts dot the sea floor along coastlines to relay important messages for the highest paying clients. In wartime, the advantage to Hadross is significant. Although a Syren’s range by land is greatly reduced, Ilva, the Syren of Kaldeth Strait, counts her voice as particularly blessed by the Deep Voices. She now travels with the Hadrossian forces primarily to facilitate battlefield communications, but the enemy counts her as a dreadful figure to behold, for the legends of Syrens and sailors holds true. Her song can lull entire lines into a stupor, and her screech can shatter armor and burst heads at close range.
Shael-Han – The Red Willow
Not every fighting school is stationed in Achrion. A few are hidden across Arikania. The Hidden Forest School of Assassination, for instance, is rumored to be somewhere in Kartoresh, and their widespread use of war masks would seem to support that theory. While all graduates of the Hidden Forest are deadly, Shai Feilofu is of a rare breed of battlefield assassins, who are as at home on the front lines as creeping about far beyond them, waiting for the opportune moment to strike. In addition to her whirling, whipping fighting style, her flexible use of technology, magic, and techniques from across Arikania has earned her the title of Red Willow. Her technomantic battle harness can disguise her as almost anyone or anything, and her steam-powered arm is both weapon and shield.
Teknes - Timoshkin, the Technomantic Berserker
Growing up, Timoshkin’s mother told such grand tales of the Humanum Revolution and her part in it that Timoshkin couldn’t wait to don his armor and fight alongside his fellow Linemen. Alas, although his father was fully human, Timoshkin’s mother was addanii, and the children of such unions always favor the mother. While no one doubts the addanii’s spiritual indomitability, their bodily strength never exceeds that of adolescent humans, and they’re simply not physically capable of holding a line. At least, not until science steps in to even the score.
Timoshkin joined the Galvanic Defenders, and through long study and no end of experimentation, he has become one of the most accomplished technomancers of his time. His etheric helmet represents the culmination of his life’s work to-date. It draws magical power from the substance of reality, grants him limited mastery over gravity, and greatly augments his physical strength and speed. While other Galvanic Defenders blast their enemies from across the battlefield, Timoshkin charges into the fray, a spinning, weaving cyclone of crackling energy and thundering hammer strikes.
Now that we've teased them, if you do fancy the idea of getting these in resin, check out the options below. We'll be releasing these in plastic as part of the regular release schedule (after the Kickstarter - we don't want to bloat it and push back delivery), but the high quality European cast resin versions of these models will not be offered into general sale later. Just add the appropriate amount to your pledge if you want any, and as always we'll figure out what it's for after the Kickstarter concludes via our pledge manager.
Still lovin' that Rackham vibe that is strong in this game's offerings!
Argh.. I made a promise to my bank account that I'll only order a single starter set... A SINGLE STARTER SET and nothing more ... damn you *shakes hand*!
The only "complaint" I have is that I would prefer the Shael-Han character to be less stylistically like a Nasier figure. That said we'll presumably see things for the other "side" of each faction (so, a vampire for Goritsi, for example) at some point.
Little update consolidated some questions being answered in the KS comments section:
Faction choices
King and Ancient King levels can have any mix of Faction Starters you want. Duplicates are ok.
Faction Starter trade in
You may trade in one Faction Starter at King for a $40 credit to be applied to optional items, or three Faction Starters at Ancient King for a $35 credit for each Faction Starter.
Gold Deck
The gold deck will include either cards or card previews (without rules) of every model we release during this Kickstarter, including the resin preview model, Iron Eyes as well as possible future unlocks
Extra Iron Eyes
You may purchase an extra Iron Eyes for every Faction Starter you pledge, for $10 each. This is on top of the free Iron Eyes you receive for King and Ancient King.
Bases kit for Factions
Each Base kit will have at least 40 inserts (for $20), for each of the Faction Starters.
New minis look incredible.
The only miss from the concept art IMO are the spines on Anton's forearm.
Timoshkin would be perfect as one of the Confrontation Samurai Goblin characters that never received a model whose name escapes me.
These guys have cemented at least my original pledge, which I was considering pulling to allow for more frivoulous Darklands spending when their KS2 starts up.
I'd actually pick up the Red Willow and Blind Hakar in the CKPM if they had rules but CMoN are being very cagey on this from the way they are posting on the subject it sounds like they aren't confident of them having rules by the time they ship (yes May 2014) so no rules cards no sale for me I'm afraid - resins are nice and all but if you have to buy the plastics later for the cards there's not much point - nice models I'll look for them in plastic at retail.
Yes all the other KS stuff - so far - will have rules cards.
The 5 resin miniatures are a preview of the stuff the be released in Q4 next year.
some quotes from the comments
Creator CoolMiniOrNot about 1 hour ago
The resin models will come with a card, but this may or may not have the final rules. In every sense, they should be treated as preview models. It's too early for us to say one way or other if we'll be releasing physical individual cards later separately from the units themselves.
You might be able to tell from the resin previews that we're already well advanced in sculpting the next wave, hopefully for release Q4 2014 after the initial release. That way we can keep up a regular schedule with an evolving story.
We've got lots planned (war engines, large beasties), but nothing fit for show yet.
Leif Paulson about 1 hour ago
... Our intention is to do a single shipment of all product for this product to the KS backers by our projected delivery time. ...... As far as expansions /additional models we will be making available as soon as production allows us to. Once we get close to releasing the models to store locations, you will see supplemental rules begin to appear in Ravage magazine and updates on new models and release schedule then. All I can say is we have a lot planed for the game and I am very excited to the community response so far!
The cards will be included in each box, when you back on the Kickstarter you get the cards that will be included in every box thereafter as well. Additionally we will be looking into creating an app for those who prefer digital cards with the newest updated rules. You will never have to buy the cards individually.
..... none of the expansions/additional models will be on kickstarter.
I get the feeling they have stuff ready for the end that may not be overly developed yet but it looks like they are sticking to 1 delivery wave only this time.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Update - which will probably auto-append...
Teknes Character story time!
Update #30 · Sep 2, 2013 · comment
As we while away a sleepy Labor Day, here's more background, this time on Teknes!
Felskar – Sorik the Unfinished
The world at large perceives the addannii as a race of tinkerers and mad scientists. Many of these diminutive humans disdain the stereotype, but Sorik exemplifies it. His own personal armor served as the technical basis for the CAGE project, and his technomantic expertise is renowned across Felskar. However, Sorik does not work well with others, to put it mildly. He has no patience for simpletons that cannot grasp his incessant flow of technobabble and he disdains all documentation as obsolete before the ink dries. Nevertheless, Sorik gets results. When piloting his personal steam armor, he’s a mobile hardpoint with lightning cannons. Enemies can keep their distance and get zapped, or close in to strike him… and get zapped
Defender Raeth Sevisk
Raeth was only a small child when the revolution began, and his life was shaped by war. Consequently, he is very good at what he does, and he hates himself for it. The humanum revolution was about freeing the people from the bonds of authority. Yet, authority is the basis of government, and a nation cannot exist without government. However, while no system is perfect, Raeth believes with all his heart that the Committee structure and humanum philosophies are the best humankind can achieve for the moment. No stranger to innovations and technology, Raeth’s armor gives the old warrior the strength and stamina of a man many years his junior. In battle his experience serves as a force multiplier when joined with any lineman unit.
Gulraast the Ironward
Gulraast served on the front lines of Felskar’s ‘glorious humanum revolution’ several decades ago where he was a warrior, commander, and, most importantly, quartermaster. Gulraast realizes, more than most, that logistics can win a battle long before blades are ever drawn. His work on the Union Warrior project earned him a high rank in the new order, and he has spent nearly ten years on Fructus Isle laying the groundwork for his people’s plans to bring the revolution to other countries. In battle, Gulraast is carried by his bodyguard and servant, Voy, who was one of the first successes of the Union Warrior project. Together they are a vicious combination of brains and brawn.
Could someone keep an update of how many mini's are available at the $200 level? Looks like more mini's at the 300K level. Can't find that info anywhere in the KS updates.
Ooo... Kingdom Death crossover. Gee, didn't see that coming.
We're super pleased that the boys and girls at Kingdom Death:Monster have agreed to let us realize a version of the Twilight Knight right in Arikania!
This model is a bit of cross over fun, and isn't tournament legal but will have rules.
Dame Allison, Twilight Knight
"Sail far enough from the Arikanian mainland, and the mists close in. Chronometers fail, compasses spin, and finding the sun is nigh impossible. Yet, there are lands beyond. Ancient King Arikan himself made the journey, and, on very rare occasion, ships from foreign lands appear on Arikanian shores. The city of Nareh sits on Arikania’s northern shore, beyond Telloria in the hinterlands as yet unclaimed by a Scion nation. Fishermen and traders from this small community often find debris, bodies, and even shipwrecks along the northern coasts. Some have made a business of scavenging the debris. But, perhaps once or twice in a generation, they find a survivor.
Dame Allison hails from a land where the realm of humankind is on the brink of extinction. She belongs to a mysterious order, charged with keeping and defending the devastated kingdom’s accumulated knowledge. In their few remaining archives were vaguely detailed legends of Ancient King Arikan’s adventures, and she attempted to retrace his journey in the hopes of finding an unspoiled human land, where she might gather allies and reinforcements. In this, she has succeeded, but, alas, is now trapped on Arikania, and embroiled in its own troubles. Her diplomatic efforts have as yet yielded no fruit.
She owes no allegiance to any Scion nation, but she offers her services to any side that can meet her price. Sometimes she needs gold, sometimes archive access, and sometimes she sees a wrong that needs righting. In battle she is most at home on the front line. Her strange training and enhancements are unknown in Arikania. Magic assaults slide off her, and her light armor gives her the mobility to avoid even the mightiest blows"
So, how do you get here? She's a limited edition resin miniature going for $10, but please limit yourself to one per Faction Starter.
Just add the appropriate amount to your pledge and we'll find out from you what it's for after the campaign ends through our pledge manager.
without starting any nasty rumors, I wonder if CMON asked for a Adam Poots bump to help with their kickstarter as it has not been moving as fast as some people might have expected and some strong criticism in regards to the miniature quality and material?
I haven't seen any of those strong criticisms.
I expect that they are using a very similar material combination to what we will see KD using.
This crossover was inevitable, best to use it now than at the end when it would get lost in the rush.
I've been expecting this from the start I mentioned Alison a few pages ago so I'm not surprised it makes perfect business sense as it will give them a boast it would surprise me if Alison isn't the only one that's just a guess though. Think that will be my 5th Alison she's catching up with Candy and Cola (7 to date)
plastictrees wrote: I haven't seen any of those strong criticisms.
I expect that they are using a very similar material combination to what we will see KD using.
This crossover was inevitable, best to use it now than at the end when it would get lost in the rush.
It was all over Tabletop gaming news comments.
CMON even made a corny video at gencon asking people their thoughts on the minis.
The execution on it was terrible, it felt like listening to people on a male enhancement infomercial at 3:00 am.
I edited my last post it looks like Twilight Knight must be bought with at least one faction starter not A La carte although A La carte numbers are going up - she is also listed separately to the optional menu not part of it on the homepage.
Per the update
So, how do you get her? She's a limited edition resin miniature going for $10, but please limit yourself to one per Faction Starter
DaveC wrote: I've been expecting this from the start I mentioned Alison a few pages ago so I'm not surprised it makes perfect business sense as it will give them a boast it would surprise me if Alison isn't the only one that's just a guess though. Think that will be my 5th Alison she's catching up with Candy and Cola (7 to date)
EDIT
Just saw this image in the news letter
It is a good deal, as per usual with CMON. But I just don't need all those models, just some! So in my case, it makes sense to wait and pay more for just the ones I want.
They should add one more and make it an even $1 per model . But again, that's a crazy good deal!
RoninXiC wrote: You mean the rules?
You can always swap 2 level 1 infantry for a single level 2 infantry. Same for leaders and specialists.
I mean models or rules for using existing models that would be elite infantry. Right now as far as I can tell there's nothing but rank 1 grunts available.
They should add one more and make it an even $1 per model . But again, that's a crazy good deal!
Already done it's now 204 miniatures the $300k goal added 1 more mini to each. Good deal alright if you want the lot but Hadross, Teknes and Goritsi hold no interest for me so King will do.
RiTides wrote: It is a good deal, as per usual with CMON. But I just don't need all those models, just some! So in my case, it makes sense to wait and pay more for just the ones I want.
They should add one more and make it an even $1 per model . But again, that's a crazy good deal!
Yeah, that's the precise reason i'll be splitting it with a bro. Thats a ton of models to add to my already vast grey plastic horde.
RoninXiC wrote: You mean the rules?
You can always swap 2 level 1 infantry for a single level 2 infantry. Same for leaders and specialists.
I mean models or rules for using existing models that would be elite infantry. Right now as far as I can tell there's nothing but rank 1 grunts available.
Skorza Skirmishers, The Wrath and Servidan Gutters are Elite Infantry.
Get a free Rank 2 Character Specialist of the same Faction if you get the Rank 2 Character Leader set!
The Rank 2 characters are, by Faction
Gortisi - Korrad and Herald of Blood - $15
Nasier - Elsis Tagil & Alayna Heska - $15
Hadross - Oooroth of Sysor Deep & The Bannerman - $15
Shael Han - The Warchild & The Winterhawk - $15
Teknes - The Ironward & Raeth Sevisk - $15
Have we seen artwork for all of these Rank 2 Character Leaders already?
I'm getting confused/lost amongst the updates and all the other Kickstarters I'm trying to keep track of!
RoninXiC wrote: You mean the rules?
You can always swap 2 level 1 infantry for a single level 2 infantry. Same for leaders and specialists.
I mean models or rules for using existing models that would be elite infantry. Right now as far as I can tell there's nothing but rank 1 grunts available.
Skorza Skirmishers, The Wrath and Servidan Gutters are Elite Infantry.
Thanks. I had only looked closely at Goritsi and Nasier which had a typo and no elites respectively. I only scanned the other ones for things that were Rank 2, so I missed the Wrath and Gutters. Downside is that probably means Nasier won't be getting any elite infantry.
Get a free Rank 2 Character Specialist of the same Faction if you get the Rank 2 Character Leader set!
The Rank 2 characters are, by Faction
Gortisi - Korrad and Herald of Blood - $15
Nasier - Elsis Tagil & Alayna Heska - $15
Hadross - Oooroth of Sysor Deep & The Bannerman - $15
Shael Han - The Warchild & The Winterhawk - $15
Teknes - The Ironward & Raeth Sevisk - $15
Have we seen artwork for all of these Rank 2 Character Leaders already?
I'm getting confused/lost amongst the updates and all the other Kickstarters I'm trying to keep track of!
Get a free Rank 2 Character Specialist of the same Faction if you get the Rank 2 Character Leader set!
The Rank 2 characters are, by Faction
Gortisi - Korrad and Herald of Blood - $15
Nasier - Elsis Tagil & Alayna Heska - $15
Hadross - Oooroth of Sysor Deep & The Bannerman - $15
Shael Han - The Warchild & The Winterhawk - $15
Teknes - The Ironward & Raeth Sevisk - $15
Have we seen artwork for all of these Rank 2 Character Leaders already?
I'm getting confused/lost amongst the updates and all the other Kickstarters I'm trying to keep track of!
Compared to your FLGS, part of the obvious risk of a KS miniatures campaign is that you don't have the miniature in front of you to judge the quality of its material. The commenters in the TGN forum obviously don't have enough information for them to commit to pledging. If they need to have a third party review or physically see the product, that just as obviously means they want to reduce the risk inherent in a KS campaign. As a result, if they choose to not pledge, obviously their only alternative is to wait until the product is at retail, when it will just as obviously be at a higher retail price. Obviously, the whole point of the deep discounts in a KS is for the backers to accept this risk. When there's less risk, as in when the models hit the market, obviously they'll be more expensive.
OTOH, It's not like there's a paucity of miniatures on the market. If you're a display-level painter taking a week or a month to paint a miniature, you're looking at purchasing only 60 to 10 models per year. You should be shopping for fewer, higher quality (metal or resin) miniatures, and not even bother with bulk plastic.
CMON already said the miniatures (except weapons) are made out of the same stuff PP uses and the same stuff used in the SedWars box set.
Their concern has already been addressed.
It will be interesting to see if CMON has been able to fix the mold line issue or if the issues with excessive mold lines in the SedWars box is normal.
drazz wrote: So, am I the only one that actually hates the pseudo Wolfen? The head is ALL wrong on those guys,
Pretty much, yeah.
The only reason that I'm even interested in this game is because it will give me a chance to put my old Confrontation Wulfen on the table again, I really love those guys.
Confirmation that the WoK Twilight Knight must be bought with a faction starter minimum
Leif Paulson 1 minute ago
We have gotten a ton of questions about the Kingdom Death crossover miniatures. To be perfectly clear they are tied to starters, If you want one you have to purchase a faction starter. If you were a KD backer, you can access an additional one. It is tied directly to the number of faction starters you get, so if you are pledging at the Ancient King level, you can buy 5 if you really want. Hopefully that makes sense. So no a la carte menu, you cannot buy them individually. Been working this out for a while now, soonest I could get the info to you.
Character story time! - Gortisi
Update #33 · Sep 5, 2013 · 3 comments
We've unlocked the free novella (and we hope to expand that to a full 60k+ word novel), so what better way to celebrate than with more character backgrounds?
Korrad Ungarash
While vampires are renowned for long lives, most non-Tellorians forget that the Gift holds back the ravages of time for werewolves as well. As such, Korrad has commanded Night Legion troops for longer than most of the current nobility has been alive. Yet his human appearance remains that of a powerful man in his prime. No stranger to political intrigues, Korrad disdains notions of advancement at any cost. Some prices are, in fact, too high, especially in a nation whose most learned and powerful have lifespans of centuries to achieve their goals. And yet he slaughters his enemies with the same ruthlessness afforded to any prey. Korrad is fully aware of the dichotomy. Whether alone or with his fellow Skorza, Korrad is a deadly combatant, specializing in breaking enemy lines with the hallmark ferocity of all werewolves.
Hestra Nostrollo, Herald of Blood
From birth Hestra Nostrollo was favored with wealth, station, ability, and beauty, and she revels in every one. Even before the Gift, she was one of the most brilliant women in the Tellorian court. Now, she finds there is nothing beyond her ability to grasp or destroy as her whim takes her. Hestra revels in her vampirism as it allows her to indulge in her great passion for learning, magic, and power for its own sake. In battle her grace is renowned, even for a blood dancer. She uses her magic to confuse and distract opponents, leaving them open for one of her Blood Dancer’s blades or her own signature claws. Even among the deadliest combatants in Telloria, she is lethal.
Gregorio don Sissora
Everything about Gregorio is a rarity. He’s one of the very few male vampires (and his sister is an even rarer female werewolf). And he comes from the nearly non-existent Tellorian upper middle class, his parents being moderately well-to-do merchants in Forseno. Gregorio certainly has political ambitions (all vampires seem to), but for now he is content to represent Telloria as an ambassador at the upcoming summit. He knows there will almost certainly be war, but as to its scope and depth, he cannot yet say. When war does come, Gregorio will do as he always does: reposition to maximize his gain, which is an excellent description of his combat style as well. His mechanical wings let him rapidly close on high-value targets, and his magic isolates the target for an easy kill.
Everything about Gregorio is a rarity. He’s one of the very few male vampires (and his sister is an even rarer female werewolf). And he comes from the nearly non-existent Tellorian upper middle class, his parents being moderately well-to-do merchants in Forseno. Gregorio certainly has political ambitions (all vampires seem to), but for now he is content to represent Telloria as an ambassador at the upcoming summit. He knows there will almost certainly be war, but as to its scope and depth, he cannot yet say. When war does come, Gregorio will do as he always does: reposition to maximize his gain, which is an excellent description of his combat style as well. His mechanical wings let him rapidly close on high-value targets, and his magic isolates the target for an easy kill.
For being rarer then "very few", there seem to be a number of female Skorza Skirmisher werewolves, as well as the Scourge Hounds which have a female model. Unless I'm missing a nuance here and Skorza doesn't necessarily mean werewolf?
I have to say, I really like Hestra's design. I wish she were included in the starter set.
Hmm, if Gregorio is one of the few male vampires, and vampires all seem to have political aspirations, then that seems to indicate that Telloria's ruling class is predominantly female. Interesting, you don't see matriarchical societies that often in fantasy settings.
Everything about Gregorio is a rarity. He’s one of the very few male vampires (and his sister is an even rarer female werewolf). And he comes from the nearly non-existent Tellorian upper middle class, his parents being moderately well-to-do merchants in Forseno. Gregorio certainly has political ambitions (all vampires seem to), but for now he is content to represent Telloria as an ambassador at the upcoming summit. He knows there will almost certainly be war, but as to its scope and depth, he cannot yet say. When war does come, Gregorio will do as he always does: reposition to maximize his gain, which is an excellent description of his combat style as well. His mechanical wings let him rapidly close on high-value targets, and his magic isolates the target for an easy kill.
For being rarer then "very few", there seem to be a number of female Skorza Skirmisher werewolves, as well as the Scourge Hounds which have a female model. Unless I'm missing a nuance here and Skorza doesn't necessarily mean werewolf?
The number of post-op transexual werewolves is, however, startling!
That struck me as well, as half the werewolves in the starter are female as far as I can tell. I've lost track of how many different sculpts/ tweaked sculpts we have now...?
I broke down and bought in with a friend as I have a few of the resins and love them. Plus if the game ends up sucking I will just blame Cincy ....seriously though I want my damn relic knights so if this goes the same way I am done with CMON.
Well, if my unbuilt Ramilies Star Fort sells decently on ebay I'll be diving into this one. The models just keep growing on me. It's to the point where the only one I'm not a fan of is Hadross but even that's getting close. Just have to wait and see how much I can throw at this.
Character story time! - Nasier
Update #35 · Sep 6, 2013 · comment
Continuing our series on backgrounds of the unique characters of the world, we present the Nasier!
Galderath Heshberod, Bloodchild of Harikir Alderath
Galderath is one of a new breed of Ashmen whose war masks allow the bound elemental more control of the host’s body. They’re said to give the wearer the same protection against elemental manipulation as the tried-and-true Ashman masks. The resulting wings and increased striking power are certainly proof of the first claim, although Galderath, the first volunteer, says the result has been more of a melding than intended. No one is complaining though, since these new abilities give Galderath unprecedented mobility, and his near immunity to fire allows a steam-driven exoskeleton free of the usual bulky heat shields. On the battlefield, Galderath’s specialties lie in rapid response and secondary command, meeting immediate threats with superior force, and supporting commanders as a steadfast lieutenant.
Elsis Tagil, the Wail of War
Half-Achrionian on her father’s side, Elsis Tagil battles with a Zen-like tranquil stare that is doubly unnerving amongst the unruly Pelgarth Bloodmasks. While her sisters hoot and howl and rage across a battlefield, Elsis watches and gauges, and shouts only to direct her fellow Pelgarth to greater effect. Her style is precise, her moves calculated, and nothing escapes her notice. She favors longer weapons such as staves and polearms, the better to strike at range and to block incoming blows for those around her. She shares the Pelgarth immunity to pain, but why suffer needless injuries? She is at her absolute best as the calm eye in the center of a bloody storm.
Alyana Heskar, Senior Hakar
Few women join the Ashman Legions, fewer still rise so high in their ranks. Alyana Heska’s humble origins serve as the source of her great ambition. Orphaned at a young age, her powerful intellect and raw talent saw her through many trials. Barely out of girlhood, she donned her first war mask in service to Scion King Nasier. Since then her meteoric rise has earned her a place as the top military advisor on Fructus Isle. In battle she is most at home leading a file of Ashmen where she can direct their heavy-handed strikes to maximum effect. In single combat, she is a deadly duelist, with scores of corpses to her name.
Hadross and the 3rd infantry type have gone up today as well. Interestingly, while the Goritsi infantry are pretty much just normal humans, we may have our first ranged fighters among them since the one figure sculpt of their shown has a crossbow.
As promised, we've moved forward production on the 3rd infantry type and here they are! Each Infantry box will have 3 poses and variant bits.
Shael Han - Iron Lotus Warriors
The deadly warriors from the all-female School of Scything Flowers practice the art of the Iron Lotus, one of the most intriguing and baffling fighting styles in Achrion and beyond. The Iron Lotus style relies on exceptional speed for defense. Agile, graceful, and hypnotic, practitioners eschew even the most basic armor. Attackers find themselves swinging and hacking at empty air where a Lotus once stood. Lotuses employ a variety of weapons, but the whip is preferred for its reach, versatility, and unpredictability. Shields and parries are nigh useless against these wrapping weapons, and while one opponent may be prepared for the Lotus’s attack, their comrade may never see it coming.
Nasier - Fel Hammers
The first masks crafted by the priests of Fel Mallek were intended to enhance strength and endurance for common laborers. But, a happy accident in the forging process summoned and bound an entirely new class of elemental spirit. However, unlike the elementals from the Efrenti hierarchy worshipped widely across Kartoresh, these new spirits do not serve willingly. The resulting war masks imbue their wielders with enormous strength, but the melding process has a higher casualty rate than the tried-and-true Ashman and Pelagarth masks. For those that can master the spirit, however, the benefits are obvious. Fel Hammers wield weighted weapons forged specially for their immense strength. Only the thickest and most advanced armor can withstand a single hit from these powerful weapons, and even fewer can withstand a second strike.
Teknes - Addanii Brood Warriors
Goritsi - Ravenscar Mercs
The Ravenscar Mercenaries have long worked closely with the regular Tellorian military, so much so that joining the Mercs is, essentially, joining the army. Tough, brutal, and somewhat unruly to the non-Tellorian eye, the Mercs have a reputation for ruthless efficiency that’s in perfect keeping with their role as rank-and-file troops in an army of monsters. They train hard and fight hard. Those that fall behind risk becoming dinner. It’s as simple as that. But for those that can meet such high standards, the life of a Ravenscar is one of privilege, respect, and a potential road to great wealth: the dream of every Tellorian peasant boy. With an egalitarian system for loot division, and the highest base pay rates of any national military, Ravenscars can earn more in a single tour than most soldiers might in a lifetime. In battle, Ravenscars are renowned for their steadiness and resolve, even in the face of modern battlefield horrors. And small wonder when Tellorian encampments might be as bloody as the most gruesome battlefield.
Hadross - Deepman Frenzies
Amongst the many types of Deepmen, those gifted with the likeness of sharks are rare. This might be fortunate, because along with the shark’s strength and resilience, they also share their irascible temperament and inexhaustible hunger. Frenzies can eat their own considerable bodyweight in food every three days. This would present logistical problems for Hadross commanders if it weren’t for the ready supply of fresh meat standing in the enemy’s lines. On the battlefield, when the blood begins to flow, Frenzies pay for themselves a dozen times over. ‘Berserk’ is too tame a term for Frenzies with the scent of blood in the air. They keep their heads well enough so long as there are enemies at hand, but wise commanders place Frenzies on a distant flank to chew through enemy ranks.
basically a bit disappointed in the ones for the factions I (mostly) like Gortisi & Teknes,
but the Iron Lotus have potential if the delicate faces make it through to the restic OK
I kind of wish they were 6 troops & a leader for $10 or even $15 not $20 for 12 as even though if the value was lower it would be easier to justify the lower spend
With these new infantry I think Naesir has finally pushed Shael Han out of the second spot for me- Hadross has just further solidified their place in my collection.
I wouldn't be surprised if a post 400k stretch throws more of these infantry into the box. I'll pledge for a box of sharkmen to go with the piles of Pathfinder sharks and assorted sea monsters I've picked up this last week.
First off, hooray for breaking $350k! Looks like we'll need to dream up new stretch goals soon.... we've got more Xovers and more coming up for the last week of the Kickstarter! Remember to spread the word!
Get the free Rank 2 Specialist pictured specific to the Faction with every optional Rank 2 Leader Character pack purchased!
And now... let's have a closer look at the leaders for the Infantry Boxes released yesterday!
In spoilers as it's long and mostly background and there's enough long images on this page already
Spoiler:
Shael Han - Black Lotus
Veterans of the Iron Lotus style have many paths to evolve their formidable skills, but none quite so challenging as the Black Lotus. Practitioners hone their speed and agility to superhuman heights, and their keen senses detect flaws and defects in even the strongest armor. A Black Lotus in battle practically dances from foe to foe as her war fans trace bloody trails in the air and corpses fall in her wake. But where a Black Lotus truly blooms is in the company of her fellow Iron Lotuses where her distracting style and pinpoint accuracy disrupts enemy formations and exposes them for unexpected assaults. A combined attack from a unit of Iron Lotuses led by a Black Lotus can shred even the mightiest foe in seconds.
Nasier - The Unmasked of Fel Kryn Temple
The transformative properties of Kartoreshian war masks are well known, but the Fel Kryn temple takes the art to its apex. Initiates appear to be wearing no mask at all, and masters can morph their entire bodies to mimic individuals of any gender or even shape, though this does not extend to clothing, armor, or weapons. As such, disciples of the Fel Kryn temple find extensive employment as assassins. They move undetected among enemy forces until they unmask and strike the fatal blow, then fall back to friendly lines to take command and direct troops to exploit any vital intelligence they may have uncovered. Since the transformation reshapes only the body and not the mind, the Unmasked are among the best educated specialists in Kartoresh, and masters of multiple weapons and fighting styles.
Teknes - Addanii Brood Masterminds
The emerging success of the vat-grown Brood Warriors has led to the need for leadership in the same vein. As such, mentally linked duos that demonstrate above-average intelligence (for addanii) are groomed for the Mastermind program where they undergo further spirit enhancements and are outfitted with new technomantic war masks copied from Kartoreshian designs. These Masterminds function and speak as practically one mind and can project their thoughts to other Brood over a limited radius. The resulting murderous maelstrom may appear chaotic, but the Masterminds have everything under control. The mental network of senses and brainpower gives every participating brood significant advantages in defense, since while one Brood may not see a blow coming, at least one of them will, and everyone reacts accordingly.
Goritsi - Ravenscar Sergeant
Sergeants in the Ravenscar company are made men. As veterans in service to the best-paid mercenary company in all of Arikania, they’re already wealthier than any ten officers in other national services. Those with more time on their dockets, or who seek further campaigns and riches, do well to spend a healthy portion of this wealth on an incredibly powerful crossbow of cunning design. This gets them out of the ‘meatgrinder’, as the very front rank is often called, and into a position where they can direct their fellows and support them with a variety of trick shots and specialized bolts designed to disable a wide range of enemies. From armor-piercing bolts to concealing smoke to explosives, every shot from a Ravenscar Sergeant improves his chances of seeing that next big payday.
Hadross – Deepman Charger
Hadrossians have long observed that when sharks congregate in schools a pecking order doesn’t take long to sort itself out, and Deepman Frenzies are no exception. At the top are the Chargers, truly the apex among predators. Notably more mutated than their brethren, they trade some long-term mobility for a long, slithering tail, but this heavily muscled appendage can propel them in a mighty leap that takes enemies unawares. Backed up with a ripping, gutting polearm, a Deepman Charger can cross half the battlefield before his enemies are even aware of him. In the company of fellow Frenzies, the ravening storm of teeth and blades takes on truly epic proportions, and both friends and foes would do well to steer far and wide. .
These leaders are all of course included in the Infantry boxes released yesterday!
Sounds like more than 1 crossover then. I think Candy and Cola is a given. Really not interested in seeing Penny Arcade again - over used whether they fit or not and I don't think they bring much to kickstarters anymore.
So as it stands the Deepman Frenzies/other special infantry leaders won't be included in the starter sets and only be available in the individual infantry sets for $20?
Would love to see them as an auto-include for starter sets in a future stretch goal but not holding out for it. Only time will tell...
Nobody posted the 3rd infantry leader info yet!?!?!?
Them Frenzies have even bigger shark dudes with mermaid tails and crab claws (along with giant honkin' swords) leading them to battle.
I saw someone comment on the KS page about the Frenzies and the Goritsi wolves just tossing their weapons to the ground and going at it like animals, just nothing but teeth and claws tearing each other up. That will be our tabletop in the spring. None of that sissy pew pew shooty crap.
I have to figure out how to build an army out of just sharks to eat my brother's wolves. I suppose I would still need to have a few other commanders in there somewhere though. They can stand in the back and point in the general direction of where the enemy is, and maybe kick back with a newspaper or a sudoku puzzle while everyone else attempts to eat each other.
Them Frenzies have even bigger shark dudes with mermaid tails and crab claws (along with giant honkin' swords) leading them to battle.
I saw someone comment on the KS page about the Frenzies and the Goritsi wolves just tossing their weapons to the ground and going at it like animals, just nothing but teeth and claws tearing each other up. That will be our tabletop in the spring. None of that sissy pew pew shooty crap.
I have to figure out how to build an army out of just sharks to eat my brother's wolves. I suppose I would still need to have a few other commanders in there somewhere though. They can stand in the back and point in the general direction of where the enemy is, and maybe kick back with a newspaper or a sudoku puzzle while everyone else attempts to eat each other.
Two posts up from yours?
Also, I'd say GET INTO IT!, but... it appears you already are!
I am very tempted by this, but two things are holding me back:
1: Cmon's Kickstarter record, with the exception of Zombiecide 1 big delays, and a general lack of communication seem to be the order of the day. And usually info of delays is delayed in itself to not impact the funding on the inevitable other KS that they are running at the time.
2: The combination of shipping and customs fees. I would go for a low pledge of $100, the $25 shipping is not too much but when combined with customs charges (I have no idea what these would be) the matter of postage et al costing as much as half of my original pledge is annoying.
So should I take the plunge or just wait for the retail release whenever that may be?
EU orders will be shipped from our affiliates in the UK. All other international orders will ship from our US warehouse
so assuming you're in the UK as your flag suggests(or anywhere in the EU) there will be no customs charges to pay
on point 1 if delays are going to matter to you KS is probably not worth the hassle as most projects do suffer from them.
That said they are limiting the amount of stuff (new) they throw in on this project precisely to try and reduce the delays,
and this is a wholly CMON project and the only one of these they've run so far (Guilds of Cadwallon) was on time
my guess is it will run late by 2-3 months (rather than the 6+ months of relic knights)
the other thing to consider is are the extra minis going to be of any use to you ?
will you be happy to paint/use/horde them (swings you towards backing at KS) or are they only going to be free stuff that sits in a box (swings you towards retail)
Thanks for the info Orlando, much appreciated. I had no idea on the lack of customs charges, I just assumed after what some had been paying on Bones that there would be some. That certainly sweetens the deal for me. As for delays I think you are right, with any KS the scope and size tends to mean that you should expect 3 months minimum on most projects. The obvious fear for the KS owners is that more realistic projected delivery dates will put backers off. Delays do not phase me much, so I think I will take the plunge on this. Now the choice is which two factions? It is out of Shael Han/Nasier or Hadross for me.
I believe the various projects that include the Twilight Knight are responsible for sculpting the miniature themselves using their sculptors so it fits the style of the game it's designed for some of these projects even have an over lap of sculptors any way Thomas David is doing the Helldorado one as he sculpts for both projects but Poots would have final say and veto on any miniature produced so you know it will be up to his high standards and I believe he has an option to produce the miniatures in resin at some point if he so wishes (but I wouldn't be relying on that as a way to get the mini)
Bit odd Dreadball update #122 and KoW update #88 advertising Wrath of Kings I wonder if there's a connection I've never seen these 2 cross advertise before.
At the risk of being obvious, you asked for it and you got it! If we hit this stretch.....
All Infantry boxes pictured get 50% more models - Kickstarter only. Note, we don't have all the sculpts to show yet, but there are 3 sculpts of each infantry type per infantry box.
DaveC wrote: Bit odd Dreadball update #122 and KoW update #88 advertising Wrath of Kings I wonder if there's a connection I've never seen these 2 cross advertise before.
CMoN.... they have their fingers in EVERYTHING!!!!!!
Was surprised to see it to. Not too excited about the new stretch goals. A bunch of additional single pose kits isn't doing it for me. Sticking with with my King pledge plus two level2 leaders.
Except it isn't single pose. Did you miss the part about 3 individual sculpts for each of the new troops? Granted the characters may be single pose but they even said somewhere in the comments that those might get customizable bits too.
Hulksmash wrote: Except it isn't single pose. Did you miss the part about 3 individual sculpts for each of the new troops? Granted the characters may be single pose but they even said somewhere in the comments that those might get customizable bits too.
Sorry, the stretch goal image showed a bunch of single pose models. That is what lead to that comment. Missed the note.
The first part of mold making is generating excellent masters, figuring out where cuts to the model need to be made, and creating the plugs for each piece.
Enjoy!
And at the risk of sounding shamefully negative, I'm majorly disappointed in cincydooley's lack of staying on top of updates in this thread...
Alyana Heska, Senior Hakar of the Ashman Legion, searched the devastated ballroom for suitable weapons. The shambling hordes of mindless undead had already passed through once, and she’d been forced to hide. But now, she had just found an alternative. “Ah ha,” she muttered, and raised the paired silvery clubs. “Now let’s see those creatures stand against me.”
“Hey, Elena!” her companion yelled across the wrecked dealer’s room. “I just got a cell signal!”
Elena pushed up her mask and yelled back, “Damn it, Chuck!” She grabbed another bat and trotted over. “Don’t you know zombies are attracted to noise?”
“Then why were you yelling too?”
“Because you’re an idiot. And you broke character again!”
He groaned and accepted a bat. “It’s hard to breathe in that pig mask.”
“And fighting in skirts is easy?”
He glanced at her battle dress and grunted. “You practiced, at least. And weren’t some of those swords useable?”
She grumbled. “None of them were real. You just had to have ours shipped to the con.”
“It was easier than checking them would’ve been. Cheaper too.”
She grunted. “I need my swords. Then we’d show these zombies who’s boss.”
He glared and punched some buttons on his cell. “Well no one answers anywhere, but the signal is working.”
She brightened. “A net connection? Find out where my swords are!”
He stared at her, shocked. “You have got to be kidding!”
“You got the tracking number, right?”
“We’re in the middle of a goddam zombie apocalypse and you’re worried about friggin’ swords?”
She glared at him haughtily. “A senior hakar is never without her weapons. Except when her dumbass friend is trying to avoid issues with the TSA and a piddly baggage fee.”
“I think we should find some guns.”
“A Union Worker would never use a gun.” She smirked. “They’re not smart enough. Besides, this was a gaming convention. Not an NRA rally.”
He was fiddling with his phone. “There aren’t any gun stores near here anyway.”
“So, about my swords?”
Charles sighed heavily and punched it up. “Delivered to the hotel this morning. They’re probably in receiving or something.”
Elena squealed and clapped her hands. “Let’s go find them!”
“This place is huge! And full of zombies.”
“You’ve got your bat and shield—“
“—plastic garbage can lid—“
She ignored him, “—and except for the fast ones, they’re really easy to kill. What could go wrong?”
“Oh my god, you just had to say that!”
But Elena had already clapped her mask on, and headed towards the main lobby in search of a directory.
A half dozen zombies shambled about the lobby, some in hotel uniforms, others in costume. One, ironically, in a zombie mask. Alyana shouted a challenge and charged. Charles puffed along behind her. She felled two in as many strokes. The impacts reverberated into her arms, and she grinned at the metallic thuds.
“Elena!” Charles smashed into one grasping at her from behind. He knocked it prone and smashed its skull.
She finished the rest in rapid order. She pushed back her mask. “So, you didn’t forget everything from our LARPing days.”
Charles looked at the blood and bone congealing on his bat and made a face. “I feel a little sick. And you hate the sight of blood. How are you even doing this?”
“Elena hates blood, but Alyana revels in it. That’s the whole point of cosplay, you know. You can completely be someone else.”
“So you’ve said.”
She sighed. “Chuck, look, this is the most horrific thing that I’ve ever seen. I really don’t want to stop and think about it too much. But, if I’m in this mask, there is nothing that can stand in my way.”
He looked at her a long moment, then clapped his pig mask down. “Okay then. Am being looking for swords. I am being think receiving truck might be being behind hotel. We should find a back hallway.”
She giggled. “No articles in a Felskar accent. Pretend you’re Chekov.” She lowered her mask and led the way around the lobby counter to the back rooms.
“Oh right. Union Worker Forty-Two is being honored to be helping Shael Han warrior with task.”
She rolled her eyes. “Alyana is from Kartoresh. Did you even read the fluff?”
“Well how can I tell? They’ve got like two names for every faction. Except Hadross.”
Alyana hissed. “Hadross! They’re probably behind this whole zombie thing. Check that room.”
Charles opened a door. Four zombies looked up from their meal. He closed it immediately. “Wrong room!”
They sprang back from the door and smashed each zombie as it came through. Elena gave Chuck a critical eye. “You’re fighting your own shield too much. Get some rhythm to it. Try humming the WOK theme song or something.”
“Was there a theme song?”
She didn’t have time to answer. Two zombies rounded the far corner and dashed at them, slavering and moaning. “Runners!” she shouted.
“And more behind!”
Charles blocked one with his shield, and shoved it on its back. Alyana smashed it, tripped the second, and Chuck brought his heavy boot down on its skull. He hummed a rousing tune to himself and Elena grinned behind her mask. They made short work of the other zombies.
She pushed back her maskand said, “See? Helps right? Wait, that wasn’t Wrath of Kings.”
“What?”
“Your humming.” She thought a moment and sighed. “That’s Avengers. Didn’t you watch the WOK vids?”
Chuck got defensive. “All they played was drums. And what’s wrong with Avengers?”
She rolled her eyes. “Nothing. Fine. Whatever works.”
Something roared from around the distant corner. They both stared down the empty hall. She licked her lips. “I need my swords.”
“Well, we have to go that way to get them.”
Elena took a steadying breath, and lowered her mask. “Okay. Follow me, Forty-Two.”
“Am being following.”
The long low receiving dock was filled with rows of boxes and a few shambling zombies. Alyana spotted the delivery truck backed up to a bay door. “Ah ha!” she pointed. “And half unloaded. Perfect!”
“What am being plan?”
“You search. I’ll hold them off.” She paused. “And you’re not Bizarro. Chekov, remember: Chekov.”
Outside the creature roared again. Alyana took a steadying breath and moved forward.
The first few minutes were easy enough. The shufflers proved no problem for Alyana. At the truck, Forty-Two set to work. He ignored any package too small or too large, and scanned address labels.
A pair of runners spotted them, and Alyana charged to meet them. As she battled, the thing outside bellowed, much closer. A larger pack shuffled in from an open bay, and Alyana advanced to meet them. Breathing a little hard now, Elena sweated behind her mask. “I need those swords,” she muttered. “How’s it going back there?”
“Am still searching!” yelled Forty-Two from inside the truck.
Alyana continued her rampage, and cut a bloody swath through the thickening hordes. She tripped a runner that headed for the truck and smashed a fatty’s foot into the concrete floor. Another smash crushed its skull.
She took a moment to pause, and the latticed bay door next to her exploded inward. A huge zombie sporting bony spikes and a mouth that should never have fit a human skull pulled itself through the ruined door. It saw her and roared.
“Forty-Two, I need those swords!”
The massive thing charged. She leaped back, ran around a corner, and barely escaped its downward smash. Everywhere she turned were grasping hands and gaping maws. She lost a bat somewhere in the fray. She lashed out with her last weapon and slid through the enemy hordes, graceful as a dancer, lethal as a viper—until a lucky swipe ripped off her mask.
Panicked, she tried to scoop it up, but the abomination was right behind. She ran from row to row and even scrambled over lower stacks of boxes. She tripped on her skirt, and dropped her bat. The abomination ignored smaller obstacles, and stayed right on her heels. “I need my swords, I need my swords, I need my swords…” was her mantra.
“Alyana!” Forty-Two yelled. He was on top of the delivery truck with the hordes clambering to get up.
He hurled a flashing blade towards her. She caught it, grinned, and spun, slashing. The abomination lost several fingers from a grasping hand. It leaped back and yelped with rage and pain, a bizarrely human sound.
Alyana shouted, exultant, “At last, my arm is complete!” and charged.
In the aftermath, Chuck found her, breathing hard. His costume had lost several plates, and his own sword and shield were smeared with blood.
Elena picked her mask out from under a hacked-up corpse. The strap had broken, but it would be easy enough to fix.
Chuck asked, “Well, what now, senior hakar?”
She grinned at him. “Now we go in search of lunch. For some reason, I’ve worked up a real appetite.”
“The gore isn’t bothering you?”
She looked around. The receiving dock was a charnel house. Blood pooled in thick puddles and the stench rivaled the worst college fridge she’d ever opened.
“Nope.” She smiled wide. “Told you getting into the role would help. Although you’re using articles again. It should have been ‘Blood, it no does bother?’”
He groaned. “Oh, for the love of—“
“Just saying!”
END
Limit 1 each per Faction Starter or $50 spent on Wrath of Kings items (including trade ins). e.g. If you get 1 Faction Starter you may pick up both models. Ships with Zombivor versions (not pictured) and rules for Zombicide!
As usual just add the appropriate amount to your pledge.
Twilight Knight Xover: This limit also applies to the Twilight Knight, i.e. you can pick up the Twilight Knight, Elena and Charles altogether if you have 1 Faction Starter or at least $50 applied to Wrath of Kings items!
Also, son of a bitch. I'll be snatching up these two. This crossover BS (I don't really think it's BS; i think it's great branding and marketing) is costing me serious dough.
Now that we've seen there are gonna be crossovers into Zombicide, I'm jonesing for a Candy & Cola crossover.
Interesting to note that WoK have backed down on the need to back at the $50+ level in order to buy the Zombicide figures for Zombicide backers.
If you've already backed Zombicide seasons 1 or 2, you can buy as many of these crossover characters as you want by backing at the $1 level and pitching in an extra $10 handling fee.
endtransmission wrote: Interesting to note that WoK have backed down on the need to back at the $50+ level in order to buy the Zombicide figures for Zombicide backers.
If you've already backed Zombicide seasons 1 or 2, you can buy as many of these crossover characters as you want by backing at the $1 level and pitching in an extra $10 handling fee.
No surprise there. The Zombicide boardgaming crowd is a much diff crowd than a crowd interested in WoK as a miniatures game.
And that Zombicide crowd is an angry one when they don't get their way. Big time.
Just so this is explicit, if you are backing this campaign only for the Kingdom Death crossover, there is a requirement to pick up one Faction Starter or at least $50 worth of Wrath of Kings
models per Twilight Knight. If you do not wish to touch Wrath of Kings at all, please drop your pledge. Apparently some people are taking the words "please limit ... 1 per Faction Starter" as an
option, rather than a requirement. We'll avoid saying please in future
Wow, maybe its just me or there's bit of a attitude in that last update, but this is a interesting development, I would love that Twilight Knight after all.
50 dollars of WoK stuff + $10 for the TWK and $15 for shipping isn't too bad, I just need to work out what to spend the $50 on. Anyone got any better pictures of the Scourge Hound?
Just so this is explicit, if you are backing this campaign only for the Kingdom Death crossover, there is a requirement to pick up one Faction Starter or at least $50 worth of Wrath of Kings models per Twilight Knight. If you do not wish to touch Wrath of Kings at all, please drop your pledge. Apparently some people are taking the words "please limit ... 1 per Faction Starter" as an option, rather than a requirement. We'll avoid saying please in future
Edit: This applies to Kingdom Death Xovers only, not the Zombicide Xovers which have different requirements if you are a Zombicide Kickstarter backer.
I'd say that it is always a good idea to say "Please" and "Thank You" - and you can continue to do that while at the same time being clearer about all those annoying, fiddly details too!
Also, "Xover" isn't cool - I hope they are trying to make it a 'thing'...
endtransmission wrote: Interesting to note that WoK have backed down on the need to back at the $50+ level in order to buy the Zombicide figures for Zombicide backers.
If you've already backed Zombicide seasons 1 or 2, you can buy as many of these crossover characters as you want by backing at the $1 level and pitching in an extra $10 handling fee.
Wonder if this is going to unleash nerd rage from the Kingdom Death backers who don't get the same deal with the Twilight Knight model...
endtransmission wrote: Interesting to note that WoK have backed down on the need to back at the $50+ level in order to buy the Zombicide figures for Zombicide backers.
If you've already backed Zombicide seasons 1 or 2, you can buy as many of these crossover characters as you want by backing at the $1 level and pitching in an extra $10 handling fee.
Wonder if this is going to unleash nerd rage from the Kingdom Death backers who don't get the same deal with the Twilight Knight model...
Already have. Because, you know, it's not fair.
I swear, if I only believed what I read on the internet I'd think I was the only person that ever had their mom tell them "life isn't fair."
I'm guessing (they'll say) it's because as Zombicide is a CMON project they'll be able to prove who backed it
anybody could claim to be a KD backer and the only way to find out would be to manually look through the backer list on KS
I'm sure KS and KD are not permitted to hand over a list of backer names/email addresses/KSIDs even if they wanted to due to data protection rules
(I'd also guess CMON would have preferred to stick to the you need to buy a starter rule for everybody but don't want to upset the zombicide crowd too much, the need them for the inevitable zombicide 3)
Zombicide was a CMON Kickstarter, so it's easy to verify things with the CKPM.. Kingdom Death wasn't, so they can't verify things easily. Makes sense to me.
Just so this is explicit, if you are backing this campaign only for the Kingdom Death crossover, there is a requirement to pick up one Faction Starter or at least $50 worth of Wrath of Kings
models per Twilight Knight. If you do not wish to touch Wrath of Kings at all, please drop your pledge. Apparently some people are taking the words "please limit ... 1 per Faction Starter" as an
option, rather than a requirement. We'll avoid saying please in future
Wow, maybe its just me or there's bit of a attitude in that last update, but this is a interesting development, I would love that Twilight Knight after all.
50 dollars of WoK stuff + $10 for the TWK and $15 for shipping isn't too bad, I just need to work out what to spend the $50 on. Anyone got any better pictures of the Scourge Hound?
Can someone who's on the KS ask if this is models, or just stuff? For instance, do bases count?
Alpharius wrote: I'm still shocked at how slowly this one's moving.
I've no doubt it will spike towards the end, but this is an under performer for CMON to date, and possibly also due to how much cincy hyped it up!
Despite what a good deal it is and how nice most of the minis look there is still a limit to how many people want to fight pig-men vs. octopi vs. werewolves vs. naked ladies.
Despite what a good deal it is and how nice most of the minis look there is still a limit to how many people want to fight pig-men vs. octopi vs. werewolves vs. naked ladies.
Alpharius wrote: I'm still shocked at how slowly this one's moving.
I've no doubt it will spike towards the end, but this is an under performer for CMON to date, and possibly also due to how much cincy hyped it up!
But seriously, I think it suffers a bit because it's a larger scale game. The skirmish games, I think, are more appealing to some people. I think its also suffering because there are a LOT of people holding out for Confrontation 4, which makes a lot of sense if you do like it aesthetically. Personally, I really like the models, and I think the game system is pretty cool, so I'm obviously in. I think they're also suffering due to Relic Knights being so tardy (perhaps justly, perhaps unjustly; it depends on whom you place the blame for tardiness). I think if Relic Knights has already been delivered, I think this guy is a lot bigger.
A friend's Zombicide 2 is about to arrive, I can't wait to play it! Will have to point these out to him.
You have a friend that isn't me? Because, you know, mine's already here, and Angela already ordered the little tiny card sleeves...
I do, a mutual one (Mark A.). He was planning to bring it to the store to play last Wed, but it didn't come in in time... hopefully this means he has his, too . I have yet to actually get to play it, despite seeing it played a few times!
plastictrees wrote: Maybe I'm misremembering the mechanics of Relic Knights (isn't it played on a mat?) but has a true table top wargame done better than WoK so far?
So relic knights is true skirmish, 3x3 play area, with like, 3-7 models and the card system. I think it did like, $920K.
Deadzone did $1.2MM-- I think a lot had to do with terrain too.
Wild West Exodus 'only' did $330K
Arena Rex did...$225K
So, I mean honestly, WoK is doing fine comparatively. I expect, depending on what the stretches or add ons become from here, that it'll close anywhere between $550K and $650K. Thats really not shabby.
Though I suppose his point is about the aesthetics and how they may not be as widely appealing as they could be otherwise?
Right, Confrontation was gorgeous, but stuck, for the most part, to established fantasy tropes. Here are your knight guys, your undead guys, your short angry guys, your elves.
I'd assume that very few people are buying a WoK army to use in another system, whereas you can very much see that happening with a broad enough Confrontation re-vamp.
WoK has some excellent models, but there is enough uncertainty about the material still (I think) to put off some collectors/ painters. They would likely have already bought copies of the original resins anyway.
It's ending just before the Darklands KS2 starts right? Decisions...
I mean, I've been hands on with the plastics (the demo models that are in the same material as the production models will be) and I was really happy with the material. It was, IMO, sharper than the detail on the Sedition Wars minis, and all of the weapons were in the standard hard plastic like any GW weapon. I think you'll be happy, plastictrees, honestly. I was able to see the flat resins juxtaposed with the plastics, and the difference was pretty negligible. I'd say the detail sharpness is just a step below what Poots is pulling of with the Kingdom Death Plastics.
I'm really curious to see what the Dark2 KS will bring me. I can't speak highly enough of those models.
Again, I think the final tally on WoK is going to really hinge on any other add ons they throw in there. They're going to get a ton of traction from the Zombicide crossovers (which I think are pretty cool). If they end up doing a few SDE crossovers, you can almost automatically chalk up another $100K or so.
I'm actually not worried about the quality myself. From pictures and feedback I'm confident they will be solid.
I was speaking more to the fact that this likely won't hit $1 million, unlike so many other CMoN Kickstarters. I think a pure TTG, with some of the 'limitations' specific to WoK mentioned above just whittles away certain buyer groups.
I had added to my Ancient King when the big guys were stretched, but I think I'll be sticking with just the AK+postage and picking up 2-3 factions. I honestly think that they've done a really good job of maintaining interest, I just know I'm going to drop $500+ on Darklands.
I think there are a lot of reasons why this game may not be doing as well as previous CMoN Kickstarters. Fantasy games always seem to do poorer than future/modern TTG's. KoW and Darklands made less than this one. KD is the only "fantasy" game that did better than where KoW is at currently.
It has surpassed CMoN's last KS, Kasoball. The last KS that had a similar format for a minimal level of pledges.
cincydooley wrote: I mean, I've been hands on with the plastics (the demo models that are in the same material as the production models will be) and I was really happy with the material. It was, IMO, sharper than the detail on the Sedition Wars minis, and all of the weapons were in the standard hard plastic like any GW weapon. I think you'll be happy, plastictrees, honestly. I was able to see the flat resins juxtaposed with the plastics, and the difference was pretty negligible. I'd say the detail sharpness is just a step below what Poots is pulling of with the Kingdom Death Plastics.
I'm really glad to hear this...
I'm still a bit nervous about the quality of the Relic Knights stuff - some of what we've seen looks on the 'soft' side.
Good to hear that we won't be seeing that on this one!
Like the look of the fishmen faction, not keen on the others.
It seems a bit here and there... is this a Bushido clone game where it's all supposed to be Chinese/Asian themed, or what is it?
I do like the structure of the kickstarter though, where you get to choose your factions at the $100 level rather than having them fixed. The upfront statement of RRP is good too.
We've hit our $400k stretch goal upgrading the pictured Rank 1 leaders with bits or variant poses!
So... what's next on our plate? How about a bit of fluff.... in physical form?
When the Ancient King roamed the world in his mortal form - he's a Kickstarter and convention exclusive since he won't be making an appearance in the game, and is way too powerful to field.
Get him free if we hit this stretch, if you pledged $200 or more (or an Ancient King EB at $190)! Otherwise if you really want him (he's cool looking), he's $10. We repeat - this dude has no rules, but will have a Gold Deck card.
And not to worry, we've got more freebies planned if we breach this goal!
$425k reached! 50% more infantry for the 3rd infantry box
Update #46 · Sep 11, 2013 · 11 comments
An additional 50% more Leaders and Infantry will be added to these boxes below! These bonus models are Kickstarter only, and not added to the retail boxes.
So the Brood Warriors (for example) will ship with 1 bonus leader and 3 additional Brood warriors.
I may be repeating ploints that have already been stated, but I'm at work and dont have time to read through 15 pages of posts...and I really have to get this off my chest.
The guys behind Wrath of Kings are some of the best artists/sculptors in the industry. The only thing missing is Aragorn Marks to make this new line of miniatures truly best in class.
Now, as much of a fan-boy as I am, I am going to explain why I will NOT be backing this project.
I started collecting Confrontation back when CMON was New-Wave mail order games (despite their awful customer service) and they were importing the models from France. There was a rough fan-translation of the rules floating around, but really I was intrigued by the elegant beauty of the sculpts and the truly amazing studio paintwork they used to advertise the models. I watched as Rackham grew and gained their much deserved respect and popularity. They took on new talent (and changed the scale of their minis), and produced some of the best graphically designed products ever to be published in the gaming industry. I still have boxes of Confrontation minis, extensive collections each from about half of the factions in my garage....
Then they released AT-43. I was intrigued. I lamented the Pre-painted plastic aspect, but the rules were clean and fresh, the game was good and looked good! It really only suffered from some production and distribution delays (due to their new dealings with factories in China) and from only having 2 or 3 factions at launch.
I was already a Rackham Sentinel, and so I helped try to spread the word and get people into the game. I even convinced a few FLGSs to carry the product. I was even flown out to Origins in Vegas to help pimp the game at the industry trade show.
Then Rackham announced a new version of Confrontation and after a few months it finally came out that they were giving it the AT-43 treatment. A full re-launch of the entire miniatures line...in pre-painted plastic. And the rules, were basically the AT-43 rules with a few minor tweaks here and there to make it work with the fantasy setting. They took their entire existing fan-base (the people in love with the intricate details of their best-in-industry metal miniatures), and flushed it down the toilet.
They got through 3 or 4 f the factions before they simply hemorrhaged too much profit from loosing product sales from their metal minis fan base, and the high cost of setting up all the new manufacturing and mold making for their new plastic line. Bang. Dead. Bankrupt.
From the fallout, some of the artists went to work for other minis companies...I recognize some of the style bleeding into Helldorado, Aragorn did some freelance work for Privateer Press, and now works for GW. A few of them made the Cadwallon board game published through Dust Games and FFG. A few of them went over to work on Dust (striking similarities to AT-43). Guillotine Games knocked it out of the park with Zombicide, and we got to see the Cadwallon card game as well.
And so we come to Wrath of Kings. A fantasy army battle scale game (or medium to large skirmish if you like) in an all new fantasy setting....I need another fantasy battle miniatures game like I need another damn hole in my head.
Despite the bad taste in my mouth form what I just described above...I already have multiple Warhammer Fantasy armies (not to mention 40k, Warmachine, Infinity, Malifaux, Necromunda, Epic, BFG, and so on), and there's the hundreds of Confrontation minis I still have...patiently awaiting the supposed launch of Conf.4/Phoenix edition. There's the giant tub of AT-43 stuff under my stairs that hasn't seen the light of day in years.
I really wish them luck...but I assumed that these guys were going to be the ones re-launching Confrontation...so, I'm understandably a little miffed and a little confused.
Confrontation might still be coming, or it might be out for the count at the moment
CMON spend time (and I guess money) on working on the phoenix ruleset for the Confrontation re-start,
but they got such a luke warm reception where confrontation fans got to see/playtest this new ruleset maybe they decided they needed to go back to the drawing board
Wrath of Kings has been on the drawing board for a while (2011 or earlier)
I have been watching this since it went live....althought I really like some of the factions/models.
What has pretty much pushed me away is that no one faction has all minis I like. In fact its about 50/50. So with that im mind I will prolly stay out of the kickstarter and hope maybe someday we see a decent re-launch of confrontation.
Dont really want a mass of extra unpainted minis sitting around i have not interest in just to get a handful I actually really like...not to mention a completely new game to go along with it. To me the creative time and effort would have been better funnelled into new content and all solid scuplts in a confrontation re-launch instead of into a competitive product.
That way they could also skip the subpar scuplts and concentrate on all units/figures people would want for each faction, esp when added to what is already there in the confrontation arena.
Just my 2cents but I havent backed anything by CMON yet.
Wehrkind wrote: Fight the power Alph! Ritides and Cincy can't hide behind their ivory towers forever!
Now, I am off to the ivory tower for a few hours....
I was going to say exactly that, but you beat me to it
You don't have to say what we all already know!
What is interesting so far is that all of the 'extra' and 'free' figures do not seem to be whipping everyone into a frenzy - even though the quality has been shown to be very nice, and the quantity is quite high!
Done right the confrontation re-boot can be a massive kickstarter success. Now its all a matter in how they do it.
Adding new content/miniatures is huge. I dont think a rehash of commonly available minis on Ebay will work well. It has to be new stuff and omg how about finishing the factions in the kickstarter- in other words Akkyshan and Sphinx need to be in it, they would be huge massive sellers if the rules are decent. Even new units for the older factions or re-scuplts would be sellers IMO.
Starters would be nice for people that dont have certain factions or didnt get stuff back then but they also need the options of new factions starters to really generate massive income from old players....Man even theme specific starters with minis to that theme being new an such would be great.
An honestly the old rules were decent just need some streamlining/balancing/clean up to be up with modern wargaming. From what I heard they went extremely to far with simplification in the playtest rules set they put out...many old time players had massive issues with what the new rules looked like from the feedback on dragonpainting.
Anyway.....Who knowsbut I bet if they listened to what the consumer wants the consumer would buy lots
I still buy Confrontation figs that are languishing at my FLGS from time to time. I love the aesthetic. This campaign has been hit and miss for me, though...
chaos45 wrote: Done right the confrontation re-boot can be a massive kickstarter success. Now its all a matter in how they do it.
Adding new content/miniatures is huge. I dont think a rehash of commonly available minis on Ebay will work well. It has to be new stuff and omg how about finishing the factions in the kickstarter- in other words Akkyshan and Sphinx need to be in it, they would be huge massive sellers if the rules are decent. Even new units for the older factions or re-scuplts would be sellers IMO.
Starters would be nice for people that dont have certain factions or didnt get stuff back then but they also need the options of new factions starters to really generate massive income from old players....Man even theme specific starters with minis to that theme being new an such would be great.
An honestly the old rules were decent just need some streamlining/balancing/clean up to be up with modern wargaming. From what I heard they went extremely to far with simplification in the playtest rules set they put out...many old time players had massive issues with what the new rules looked like from the feedback on dragonpainting.
Anyway.....Who knowsbut I bet if they listened to what the consumer wants the consumer would buy lots
It is safe to say cheap plastic minis probably won't fly.
RiTides wrote: I still buy Confrontation figs that are languishing at my FLGS from time to time. I love the aesthetic. This campaign has been hit and miss for me, though...
Keep trying to get more Devourers but not easy - very pricy on ebay - so loving this kickstarter.
All bitterness aside, I don't think its the miniatures that are making people shy away. They do look amazing. The 'Rackham' look is established and well liked, and these definitely fall in line and exceed expectations in some cases. I think the problem is, people don't need another miniature fantasy battles game.
I don't have anything against Rackham, especially the creative people that make their stuff so fething gorgeous. Like I said, if this was a Confrontation re-boot, I'd be all over it. I truly have a longing to visit Aarklash again soon.
I am a completionist, and the Zombicide Xover minis tempted me for half a second....but what it really comes down to for me is it's 'yet another miniatures game'
Even if I was smitten by Wrath of Kings enough to invest, trying to convince anyone else in my gaming group to invest the money, time, and effort into another medium scale miniatures battle game would be a snowballs chance in hell. I feel the market is reaching its saturation point, and I get the feeling I'm not the only one that feels this way. You need to really wow the minis gaming community now with something truly unique if you want them to buy in.
This kickstarter is doing better than I though it would though, and I attribute it to the rediculous amount of figures you get for your money, and the talent and reputation the artists/sculptors bring to the table. I really do wish them luck, and hope they turn their attention back to Confrontation again soon.
As we head into the final stretch, here's a little something for everyone!.
If we hit this stretch, we'll add a bonus figure to each Faction Starter. These are Rank 2 Characters (in plastic) with full rules. They'll be released at retail as normal but are not included in the Faction Starters
Goritsi - Lord Hob
While not actually a landed noble, Lord Hob has served with the Ravenscar through enough campaigns to buy virtually any title he could wish. He’s the ultimate representation of what life in the Ravenscars can do for an orphan child from the mean streets of Vorstoi. In fact, he has established more than one orphanage across Telloria with his immense wealth, which serve as both shelter for the unfortunate children and a mild form of ‘boot camp’ for Ravenscar recruitment. Lord Hob could easily retire at any time, but has no desire to do anything else. In battle he wields any weapon necessary to get the job done, and is known for his startling bellows and epithets as he wades deep into enemy ranks. He is most often at home with the Skorza who honor both his prowess and commitment to Telloria, despite being ‘just a human.’
Hadross - Gar, the Gladiator
In the grand coliseum at Ophion, no name has been more feared and revered than Gar. Born the son of a Kartoreshian merchant, Gar was captured by Hadrossian pirates and sold into slavery at a young age. He proved fractious, ill-tempered, and generally useless to his captors, and refused to accept that he could do nothing to end his slavery, short of paying the price himself. He was eventually sold to the arena. Finally realizing that there was, in fact, no magical rescue imminent for himself, Gar threw himself on the mercy of any gods listening, and the Deep Voices answered. Many decades since, Gar has left the arena and joined the Hadrossian military as a free agent, and, again, his name is both feared and revered, though he does miss the crowds chanting his name. On the battlefield Gar controls his bloodlust until he has found the strongest opponent in the enemy ranks, or enough enemies to be a challenge. Only then is the predator loosed.
Nasier - Arkan Thesh
A native of Fel Irahm in the far, far north, Arkan Thesh once made a living as a bounty hunter and adventurer, often crossing the Tellorian border in pursuit of fugitives or searching for ancient ruins and lost treasure. Unfortunately for Thesh, one such expedition found the ruins it was looking for, and he did not return alone. One of the many dark demons of the Tellorian hinterlands found Thesh and now inhabits his mind. He sought an answer, any answer, and turned to medicines, magic, and outright exorcisms. Only donning a war mask keeps the haunting demon at bay, but the interaction between it and his mask’s elemental has yielded interesting results in Thesh’s transformation. He is a unique creature now, part demon, part elemental, and all war machine. As part of the military, Thesh fights for Kartoresh, especially on the Tellorian border. He specializes in going toe-to-toe with the largest enemies. Those he can’t kill outright, he locks down until reinforcements arrive. Even though this often leaves him surrounded, his powerful wings and whipping tail ensure that he is never overmatched.
Teknes - Lineman Boris, the Many-Bladed
Lineman Boris is a victim of his own success. A technomancer to rival the best addanii minds, he sought to combine CAGE and repulsion armor designs into a new generation of powered armor. He succeeded admirably, and even incorporated mechano-magical wings for superior mobility, but he relied too heavily on his own impressive magical abilities for the control mechanisms. The result is an armored suit that only a powerful technomancer might control, possibly unique only to himself, and impractical to duplicate on a grand scale. Additionally, the suit strikes so hard that ordinary weapons tend to snap or become lodged in a felled enemy’s body. Thus, Boris typically carries a half dozen swords, earning him his off-color nickname. Boris has embraced this peculiar brand of humor, and has thus far resisted calls to forge a special set of weapons. In battle he’s fast moving and hard-hitting, and enjoys marking his kills with an embedded blade.
Madam Mui, the Jade Lotus
As a young Dragon Legionnaire in the troubled times surrounding Felskar’s Humanum Revolution, Madam Mui was charged with protecting the Celestial Temple at Panzia while fighting raged nearby. Untried and impetuous, she disobeyed orders and joined the battle. It was a terrible mistake, and the unguarded Temple paid the price. Many priests were slaughtered, and many artifacts were taken. She was cast out of the Legion, and finally found a place with the Scything Flowers. Over the decades she learned her lessons, mastered her arts, and rose to head the school as Grandmistress. Now, with war imminent she has donned armor, honed her weapons, and marches with the Legions as an advisor and guide. She hopes to be present when the fighting comes to Felskar, and perhaps she can reclaim some lost honor. Her whirling style and magically-enhanced jade claws earned her the title of Jade Lotus, and she is capable of felling entire ranks without support
Starting to lean towards Nasier away from Teknes as one of two factions I'm going for. Liking more their look with the exception of the Pelagarth.
RiTides wrote: I still buy Confrontation figs that are languishing at my FLGS from time to time. I love the aesthetic. This campaign has been hit and miss for me, though...
Keep trying to get more Devourers but not easy - very pricy on ebay -
The Rackham guys will have to deal with the people behind this site before considering a re-launch. I'm pretty sure they are re-casting and selling these without the IP license from Cyanide Studios or whoever owns the rights now...
Yeah, that Madame Mui artwork looks pretty sub par. Will reserve judgement for later.
More sharks though.
At this point I'm almost wishing I could cherry pick bits and pieces of the various armies to make the most bizarre hodge-podge assortment ever assembled.
Pig men, naked fighting hoochie mammas, flying baby clones, jellyfish people, and bald clawed women with the fronts of their dresses left open.
Like all CMON Kickstarters, it offers great value at the base levels, but there are enough "add-ons" that before you know it, you've doubled what you wanted to spend in the first place.
Unfortunately for this one, the factions are very hit-or-miss. The Gortisi look pretty decent but not amazing, but the other two factions that might have tempted me (Shael-Han and Hadross) both feature some great stuff paired with a bunch of figures that I really dislike. The great models are really scattered across the whole range here, with a lot that looks sub-par.
Add to that the uncertainty on how the final models will turn out, both in scale and quality (thanks, Sedition Wars), how exactly that intend to do something as odd as "miniatures in Sedition Wars material, weapons in harder plastic", the 12-month lead time and of course, the CMON-factor...
Fango's "yet another bloody fantasy skirmish game" is a good point as well. It's kind of a minor one in some ways, but when added to the list above, it becomes another negative bullet-point to me.
Azazelx wrote: Like all CMON Kickstarters, it offers great value at the base levels, but there are enough "add-ons" that before you know it, you've doubled what you wanted to spend in the first place.
Unfortunately for this one, the factions are very hit-or-miss. The Gortisi look pretty decent but not amazing, but the other two factions that might have tempted me (Shael-Han and Hadross) both feature some great stuff paired with a bunch of figures that I really dislike. The great models are really scattered across the whole range here, with a lot that looks sub-par.
Add to that the uncertainty on how the final models will turn out, both in scale and quality (thanks, Sedition Wars), how exactly that intend to do something as odd as "miniatures in Sedition Wars material, weapons in harder plastic", the 12-month lead time and of course, the CMON-factor...
Fango's "yet another bloody fantasy skirmish game" is a good point as well. It's kind of a minor one in some ways, but when added to the list above, it becomes another negative bullet-point to me.
The model quality is really really good. I was impressed when I got to handel them at Gencon.
You've got it mixed up. The models themselves will be in hard plastic, the weapons will be in a softer more bendy plastic.
Are you sure.... I guess you are from having handled them as that sounds different to what they seem to be saying
As far as I can make out from what CMON are posting the bodies are in PVC/Restic/PP/Sedition Wars material
The weapons are supposed to be in ABS plastic which can take sharper edges than PVC but I wouldn't call it 'bendy' in any way (though all of these things can be almost as rigid or bendy as the manufactuer requires)
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Are you sure.... I guess you are from having handled them as that sounds different to what they seem to be saying
As far as I can make out from what CMON are posting the bodies are in PVC/Restic/PP/Sedition Wars material
The weapons are supposed to be in ABS plastic which can take sharper edges than PVC but I wouldn't call it 'bendy' in any way (though all of these things can be almost as rigid or bendy as the manufactuer requires)
In the demo I was given by Leaf he specifically pointed out that the weapons are made from a more bendy material then the model bodies. If you watch the Gencon testonmoials video I'm the guy in the Black Messa shirt that does the first one. I swear I'm not as fat in real life as I look on camera...
He could have been wrong... But from my impresion with the models the model bodies were really hard with alot of sharp detail, I'd compare it more towards PP plastic, while the weapons were bendy. They weren't droopy bendy but they had some give to them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Copyed right from their kickstarter page, just under the gameplay video...
Models
The models in this wave are in plastic, with weapons in polystyrene so that they keep nice straight edges on spear shafts, handles, and large sword blades etc.
Polystyrene is what GW use for their plastic (HIPS), and the weapons that they had at gencon are made of that (hard plastic) or ABS (the plastic that lego is made of). The models are softer/bendier PVC and the ones I handled at gencon were PVC. PVC is a plastic. Polystyrene is what 'plastic glue' will work on.
Based on everything I've handled and been told, I'm confident the quality on the sculpts is going to be higher than the Sedition Wars plastics (and I thought those were solid..but I know there are plenty of folks unhappy). The ones at GenCon were identical to what they're going to be in mass production, and the detail on them was crisp.
These guys are clever.. I'm at the $100 level but throwing in the Ancient King makes me think.. well.. I could go for $200 and get a ton more stuff. Im trying to resist.
FrenchTickler wrote: These guys are clever.. I'm at the $100 level but throwing in the Ancient King makes me think.. well.. I could go for $200 and get a ton more stuff. Im trying to resist.
Same -_-
Creeping closer to $200 and thinking of just committing to Ancient King and using two starters for credit. Get more stuff since waffling between two of three factions. Of course that little voice in my head is also going, "YOU DON"T NEED MORE OF THIS CRAP!".
The first part of mold making is generating excellent masters, figuring out where cuts to the model need to be made, and creating the plugs for each piece.
Enjoy!
And at the risk of sounding shamefully negative, I'm majorly disappointed in cincydooley's lack of staying on top of updates in this thread...
Welp, that seals it. If nothing else, they'll be getting my money for werewolf counts as models for my vamp counts. Clearly the sculptor that worked on confrontation wolfen is alive and kickin, and i for one couldn't be happier about that.
FrenchTickler wrote: These guys are clever.. I'm at the $100 level but throwing in the Ancient King makes me think.. well.. I could go for $200 and get a ton more stuff. Im trying to resist.
Same -_-
Creeping closer to $200 and thinking of just committing to Ancient King and using two starters for credit. Get more stuff since waffling between two of three factions. Of course that little voice in my head is also going, "YOU DON"T NEED MORE OF THIS CRAP!".
If I told my wife about it.. that same voice wouldn't be in my head any longer.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Welp, that seals it. If nothing else, they'll be getting my money for werewolf counts as models for my vamp counts. Clearly the sculptor that worked on confrontation wolfen is alive and kickin, and i for one couldn't be happier about that.
I will buy these guys, for sure.
Right.. BUT these are the resin masters.. not the production plastics. Im still in fear of what detail will be loss.. with or without the crappy plastic they're using.
Besides, the samples are a different breed than what everyone will get. I've been burned on the Dreadball release where the first wave was good but the second wave had numerous issues and poor production values. I dont think you've handled every production miniature for every model, let alone after the moulds start to wear. I appreciate you proselytizing this kickstarter but I dont think you have all the answers.
I'm in at the Ancient King level. Though I am sure these are bound to sit unpainted in my closet.
If I wanted to get everything, for say, Gortsi, then I need to add funds extra to buy Ravenscar Mercs ($20), Blood Engine ($20), Korrad Ungarsh & Herald of Blood ($15), and Faction set bases ($20).
Correct. The additional cost to every faction to get a clean sweep is $75, except for Teknes which is $70. Unless you wanted to add the resin special character as well, in which case it's another 10-15 depending on the character.
Besides, the samples are a different breed than what everyone will get. I've been burned on the Dreadball release where the first wave was good but the second wave had numerous issues and poor production values. I dont think you've handled every production miniature for every model, let alone after the moulds start to wear. I appreciate you proselytizing this kickstarter but I dont think you have all the answers.
You can continue to willfully ignore, if that's your bag. I know significantly more about this one than you. If you chose not to listen, that's on you. If you don't think you're going to be happy with the product, don't back. You'll miss out on some great minis and a solid game, but that's your loss, not mine.
Being skeptical isn't the same as being willfully ignorant, Brohem. I have backed the project and am hoping for the best but I'm skeptical. You don't need to act like I just kicked your dog.
FrenchTickler wrote: Being skeptical isn't the same as being willfully ignorant, Brohem. I have backed the project and am hoping for the best but I'm skeptical. You don't need to act like I just kicked your dog.
They had production plastic models made from production molds at Gencon a month ago. They were letting people handle the actual unpainted production plastic models. I got a chance to demo the game and handel the models specifically a Orsund Cavalier. I was extremly impressed by the quality of the model. While it might not be up to the level of a GW plastic kit, I'd compare it more to a Privateer Warjack kit, it was still a fantastic looking model.
I agree with you that the Dreadball models were lack luster. These however are much much much better then dreadball models.
If I hadn't forgotten my smartphone at home I'd have pictures to better prove my point.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Incidently...
If anyone wants the crossover models but doesn't want to pledge for the other stuff you can jump in on my pledge when the pledge manager goes live.
I'm also skeptical of the models shown at GenCon. Legoburner got a look at them too, and had positive things to say... however, we've heard this story before about how awesome production models would be, and been disappointed, so I am remaining skeptical until I see it done at-scale (i.e. boxes for sale worldwide that have the same quality as the production samples shown).
RiTides wrote: I'm also skeptical of the models shown at GenCon. Legoburner got a look at them too, and had positive things to say... however, we've heard this story before about how awesome production models would be, and been disappointed, so I am remaining skeptical until I see it done at-scale (i.e. boxes for sale worldwide that have the same quality as the production samples shown).
I agree, and this concern has me wavering on my $90 EB pledge.
I just don't want to be disappointed yet again - Mantic's Kings of War and Sedition Wars being the two examples of that for me.
At some point though we have to either believe what we've been told and what other people have seen/felt - or not.
Having said that, I'm still not a fan of the fact that this still feels a bit more like 'rolling the dice' than I'd like on a pledge!
For someone who did not see the issues with the Sedition Wars KS can someone please explain why so many seem to have been let down/angered/annoyed by its quality? I am pretty happy with my $100
pledge but the doubts of posters on here is making me a bit jittery.
The initial rules were shaky at best (not sure if they didn't have time to finish or expected it to be received as a lighter-weight game so the old GW "common sense/what you think should happen/roll for it" mentality was good enough).
There was poor QC on board components.
The miniatures were presented as their resin masters, while the plastic ultimately used (very similar to PP's and from what I've heard Mantic's) didn't hold the crispness SMV (studio mcvey) is known for and how the minis were presented (though did a pretty good job with retaining detail), and had fairly difficult mold lines.
From what I've heard, the new wave of plastic minis has suffered from shrinkage.
The KS has had pretty poor post-campaign communication (noting that CMoN not SMV has control over KS announcements).
The KS was very late, even by KS standards.
Personally, I feel like the rules were an issue with SMV, but that the rest were CMoN's problem, which is what's worth noting since they're working on this one.
I like the game quite a bit, but it still has soured me to CMoN (and probably would have to SMV too, if I hadn't paid closer attention).
More characters!
Update #49 · Sep 13, 2013 · comment
We're kind of into new release territory here, but what the heck.... time for a real stretch
Shael-Han – Hong Yao, the Red Demon
Hong Yao may have been the very first of the Children, though his transformative blessing did not come from the War Goddess. In his darkest hour, Hong Yao prayed to the Fire Lord, and was answered. His former identity was stripped away, and he became the Red Demon. He alone survived the doomed mission to Telloria, and he alone faced the scorn and dishonor at his failure and transformation. More than a decade has passed, however, and Hong Yao has once more found his place in the Dragon Legion. The indoctrination of the Children into the regular armed forces has salved his wounded pride somewhat, but he is still a different creature when compared to the Children. Where their powers are decidedly supernal, his are irrefutably infernal. In battle, he fights alone. His fiery breath can devastate a line, and his direct, brutal style makes short work of larger foes.
Nasier – Shadrus Arikim the Beast of Oraam
Among the Arkazan Longhorns, Shadrus Arikim is a legend. Despite a rocky beginning in the Ashman Legion, he has survived many wars and risen high in the ranks. He alone stood against the Hadrossian incursion at Dead Crow Strait, and he brought low the Terror of Sallum Forest. Thus, when he proposed alterations to the Longhorn war masks to the priests of Arkazan Temple, his studies and observations were taken quite seriously. Now he wears the fruit of the long labors at Arkazan. As a new breed of Longhorn, Shadrus represents a paragon of inhuman potential, and many eyes now follow his exploits, taking note of any anomalies. In practical terms, Shadrus still possesses the Longhorn strength and endurance, now augmented by an array of incendiary powers. He can ignite his warhammer to add fiery might to his swings, and even hurl great fireballs at modest distances to soften enemy troops before charging. If further trials in the coming conflict prove continually successful, the other national militaries may have to contend with an entirely new threat from Kartoresh.
Teknes – The Mighty Taur
Not all experiments in rapidly grown troops involved sentient species. Bovines, for instance, are docile, strong, and produce a new generation yearly. Unfortunately, the spirit-implantation survival rate is roughly one in a thousand, and of those, very few gain the rudimentary intelligence necessary to be useful, biddable troops. The project has since been scrapped, and Taur remains their one and only sterling example. Physically impressive, and intellectually gifted (even by human standards), Taur cuts a memorable figure in any campaign. While he doesn’t command troops in the field, he is often closeted with upper echelons for strategy sessions, and prefers cunning traps and ambushes designed to maximize enemy losses at minimal risk to Felskar forces. Taur’s custom steam armor was a gift from House Teknes after a prodigious guerilla action against Achrion when he, unfortunately, lost his horns.
Goritsi - Duchess Monica von Loukris, The Dragonslayer
When the Dragon Legions of Shael Han invaded Telloria in the brief civil war following Ancient King Arikan’s passing, Monica had only just inherited the unprepared duchy of Loukris. Alas, Loukris fell in a month. Since that time many centuries ago, the ousted Duchess has kept her crusade alive. She has attempted diplomacy, assassination, revolution, and outright warfare, yet still the Dragons hold on. Now she gives new meaning to the phrase ‘reign of terror’ as she and her devoted retainers systematically assault Achrionian interests in the city and countryside. As for Loukris itself, it has become more Achrionian than Tellorian, but the night is once more a fearful time. In battle the Duchess excels at engaging entire battle lines and emerging fully healed. Her unique harness, of cunning Felskar design, ensures that no enemy can escape the Dragonslayer’s bite.
Ephramaki, the Deepcaller Lord
A scholar turned warrior, Ephramaki of Druzeille was already a powerful magician before his conversion to the Neridan faith and subsequent transformation. Given a preference, he’d return to his university and spend his days studying the vast abundance of flora and fauna of the wilderdepths. His work on the Calith Reaver project and other similar endeavors has earned him honors from Scion Hadross himself. But the Deep Voices have other plans for Ephramaki, and he is called to war along with all the rest. In addition to the usual powers granted by Deep Callers, Ephramaki still utilizes his training in mortal magery, and can draw upon a variety of abilities. Most notably, and least surprisingly, his gift for hydromancy has surpassed those of any mortal across Arikania.
If we hit our next stretch goal, these models will be pushed to Kickstarter backers ahead of their scheduled retail release...
The Rank 2 character shown above will be added free to the corresponding Faction Starter! This will be a Kickstarter only bonus, although these models will be available at retail later.
If we don't hit this stretch we'll include them as optional purchases in the pledge manager, most likely combined with a set of some kind.
silent25 wrote: Well I backed out of my King level pledge. Decided to listen to that little voice in my head
As much as I wanted to support the project, just can't justify more boxes going into the pile.
I'm only in for a buck. I don't really care for the figures but would like to get the twilight knight and some bases. Not a single tug at my OCD on this one.
I really like "Teknes – The Mighty Taur". I like quite a few of the other Teknes models with a similar look... I just wish their basic troopers had that same techy aesthetic. But instead, they're just pigs :-/
I feel like the Vampires from the Goritsi are the worst models in the entire range at the moment for me. I'm hoping they make the character look good.
That said the rest of the stuff is getting better and better. My only complaint is that there is a couple of models per faction that I'm just not a fan of like:
-Hammer of Heaven
-Pelegrath Howler
-Zaalack
-Blood Dancers
-Scourge Hound
-C.A.G.E.
-Iron Lotus Leader & I'm iffy on the Iron Lotus's
So it's just a few models from each range. And only two actual units I dislike (maybe one) which is good. Pity the one I definitely dislike is one that I can't not purchase
silent25 wrote: Well I backed out of my King level pledge. Decided to listen to that little voice in my head
As much as I wanted to support the project, just can't justify more boxes going into the pile.
I'm only in for a buck. I don't really care for the figures but would like to get the twilight knight and some bases. Not a single tug at my OCD on this one.
Can you get the Twilight Knight if you're not in for at least one faction?
I like how the Nasier are getting wilder and more bestial as this Kickstarter progresses. Their figures are all over the place- skinny normal people, chunky naked ladies, horned beastmen, flying armored gorillas, howling armored beastmen with hammers...
It's a shame we haven't seen more Teknes stuff in line with that minotaur. It looks a lot more technologically advanced then the troops they've got currently on offer. I understand it's a specialist. I'd like to see more advanced looking tech for them like that in the future.
spiralingcadaver wrote: The initial rules were shaky at best (not sure if they didn't have time to finish or expected it to be received as a lighter-weight game so the old GW "common sense/what you think should happen/roll for it" mentality was good enough).
There was poor QC on board components.
The miniatures were presented as their resin masters, while the plastic ultimately used (very similar to PP's and from what I've heard Mantic's) didn't hold the crispness SMV (studio mcvey) is known for and how the minis were presented (though did a pretty good job with retaining detail), and had fairly difficult mold lines.
From what I've heard, the new wave of plastic minis has suffered from shrinkage.
The KS has had pretty poor post-campaign communication (noting that CMoN not SMV has control over KS announcements).
The KS was very late, even by KS standards .
Cheers Mr Cadaver. This is not a project that I have any pressing need for, but do want in on. I am not put off by the resin plastic stuff (I have a lot of Mantic minis in said medium), it is not ideal but I am getting better at dealing with it. I think I will pledge, forget about it and hope to see some results before 2014 ends.
You know, I don't really get all of the complaints about the Sedition Wars figures. I messed around with my brothers' figures and even painted a test piece for him. I didn't have that much difficulty with the mold lines or anything. Off topic, I know.
On topic, That Goritsi vampire character looks like WilyKit. Hopefully the final miniature will have a better pose than that. i do kind of hope we reach that goal though. I'm always down for more free figures. How many named characters will be included in starters now?
Cheers Mr Cadaver. This is not a project that I have any pressing need for, but do want in on. I am not put off by the resin plastic stuff (I have a lot of Mantic minis in said medium), it is not ideal but I am getting better at dealing with it. I think I will pledge, forget about it and hope to see some results before 2014 ends.
Sure, glad I could help. I agree that that weird plastic is workable, but I'll always need to think twice when I see that that's what a company is working in.
It seems a lot of people who aren't backing have thrown in many negative opinions. While I do understand it's the internet and you can say whatever the hell you want, I was under the impression this thread was for discussing a common interest. That interest being Wrath of Kings.
Myself and 4 others have pooled together for a $550 pledge. Models look good, rules need fleshing out, and hopefully the finished print rulebook will have more work put into it, but otherwise I'm pretty pleased with what we're being promised for the money.
I went for Nasier, although they were my second pick next to Hydross. I have a feeling they're going to play a lot like Warmachine's Legion.
So, this being a CMoN Kickstarter,
would they allow you to initially pledge $1 and
bump up to a King or Ancient King when the pledge manager comes out?
Bit strapped to pledge the hundred plus before Sunday and the finish
spiralingcadaver wrote: The initial rules were shaky at best (not sure if they didn't have time to finish or expected it to be received as a lighter-weight game so the old GW "common sense/what you think should happen/roll for it" mentality was good enough).
There was poor QC on board components.
The miniatures were presented as their resin masters, while the plastic ultimately used (very similar to PP's and from what I've heard Mantic's) didn't hold the crispness SMV (studio mcvey) is known for and how the minis were presented (though did a pretty good job with retaining detail), and had fairly difficult mold lines.
From what I've heard, the new wave of plastic minis has suffered from shrinkage.
The KS has had pretty poor post-campaign communication (noting that CMoN not SMV has control over KS announcements).
The KS was very late, even by KS standards.
Personally, I feel like the rules were an issue with SMV, but that the rest were CMoN's problem, which is what's worth noting since they're working on this one.
I like the game quite a bit, but it still has soured me to CMoN (and probably would have to SMV too, if I hadn't paid closer attention).
To add to those points:
No argument on the board components
The miniatures were advertised as top of the line models. People weren't as used to restic (including McVey, it seems) so most people expected better, based on things like GW plastics. Horrid mould lines, as noted.
CMON has control over KS announcements, but McVey has their own forums where they remained incredibly quiet, with a number of excuses. Essentially implied pass-the-buck between the two on blame for comms. I consider it a shared fault/responsibility.
No argument on lateness.
The BoardGameGeek crowd were vocal over wanting to see the rules during the KS. McVey were adamant that their rules would be just fine. Poor fools like myself rallied to McVey's defence, only to find in the end that we were wrong in our misplaced faith.
Yeah, you gotta have rules up front with the Board Game Geek crowd.
Glad we got a chance to see Wrath of Kings' rules ahead of time.
With King Triton and another demonic hammer wielder for the Nasier, I think I'm pretty much locked in with Nasier and Hadross. Even the big ladies are starting to grow on me.
I sadly can't wait for the Ancient King backers who inevitably dump a bunch of Teknes/ Pelgarth stuff on ebay for me to pick up (hopefully) on the cheap.
I keep recalling a Savage Dragon comic from when I was a teen where the Dragon fought a fat lady with evil demon fetuses flying out from her nether regions. They tried to strangle him with their umbilical cords. A few Pelgarths and some Teknes baby types would make some wonderfully disgusting figures similar to that comic and would be done in absolutely poor taste.
Falhurk wrote: It seems a lot of people who aren't backing have thrown in many negative opinions. While I do understand it's the internet and you can say whatever the hell you want, I was under the impression this thread was for discussing a common interest. That interest being Wrath of Kings.
Some of us are very much on the fence. Speaking for myself, if I had no interest, I wouldn't be bothering with this thread at all.
For people who like the aesthetics across the range, the $200 pledge is undoubtedly an amazing deal. That's not in question. For those of us (like myself) who like "bits and pieces" of the range but not all of even a single faction, it's less clear cut, particularly the way these things always add up...
Hulksmash wrote: I feel like the Vampires from the Goritsi are the worst models in the entire range at the moment for me. I'm hoping they make the character look good.
That said the rest of the stuff is getting better and better. My only complaint is that there is a couple of models per faction that I'm just not a fan of like:
-Hammer of Heaven
-Pelegrath Howler
-Zaalack
-Blood Dancers
-Scourge Hound
-C.A.G.E.
-Iron Lotus Leader & I'm iffy on the Iron Lotus's
So it's just a few models from each range. And only two actual units I dislike (maybe one) which is good. Pity the one I definitely dislike is one that I can't not purchase
Loving the Vampire girls myself - except the Dance Master - not liking all the new winged guys
Sadly I'm dropping my pledge. I love the overall miniature aesthetic, however I can get a similar feel from Zenit, Corvus Belli, Studio 38 and Relic Knights. Which I have lots of, or lots of coming.
I also had a chance to check out the material used for the figures, which apparently is similar to, or the same as the material Privateer Press use for their plastics. I didn't enjoy working with it too much, and Relic Knights is reportedly more of the same. I don't want to tear out all my hair.
That and I feel like I'm just giving CMoN my paychecks, though not as much as some do. However I've got Kingdom Death, Robotech and Relic Knights on the way and like many I'm eagerly waiting for the Confrontation relaunch. I'm also going to go nuts for Darklands as well, as although I feel the aesthetic isn't as tight, it's not a style I have painted much if at all.
When the game comes out I can definitely see me getting some of every faction apart from possibly Goritsi.
So.... I know a lot of you are waiting for confrontation. I am too. But if I have to be honest with you, based on some of the things I've been told, this KS, even through fulfillment, isn't likely to get in the way of that in terms of timeline.
Basically, what I'm saying, is that I don't think Confrontation Pheonix is very close.....
cincydooley wrote: So.... I know a lot of you are waiting for confrontation. I am too. But if I have to be honest with you, based on some of the things I've been told, this KS, even through fulfillment, isn't likely to get in the way of that in terms of timeline.
Basically, what I'm saying, is that I don't think Confrontation Pheonix is very close.....
This would have been disappointing to hear about a year ago, but at this point I'm not holding my breath.
I think it makes sense for CMoN to have done WoK first, it would have flopped dramatically if WoK had followed a Confrontation re-launch.
My expectations for Phoenix could not be lower at this point.
Yeah. My understanding is not that CMoN is trying to favor WoK over Confrontation, but rather that there are some really significant problems and hurdles to correctly relaunching Confrontation as a full game, the least of which being the rules.
Falhurk wrote: It seems a lot of people who aren't backing have thrown in many negative opinions. While I do understand it's the internet and you can say whatever the hell you want, I was under the impression this thread was for discussing a common interest. That interest being Wrath of Kings.
Some of us are very much on the fence. Speaking for myself, if I had no interest, I wouldn't be bothering with this thread at all.
For people who like the aesthetics across the range, the $200 pledge is undoubtedly an amazing deal. That's not in question. For those of us (like myself) who like "bits and pieces" of the range but not all of even a single faction, it's less clear cut, particularly the way these things always add up...
That's a good point, I just went through all 17 of this thread and was kind of disappointed that every second comment was bashing on something. I realize that there may be a history here, but as CMON has had succesful Kickstarters (and I'm already in on RK), I'm willing to give this the benefit of the doubt. I just wish there was more discussion on what we were excited about. What we're interested in playing, and what we think of the rules.
Falhurk wrote: I just wish there was more discussion on what we were excited about. What we're interested in playing, and what we think of the rules.
Sharks, flying babies, and masked fat chicks. 'Nuff said.
I glanced over the rules. They went over my head, but then again that's usually the case when I'm not actively trying to play/ learn something. I'm very interested in the HC rule book though. Hope it has some of the fluff they posted inside of it rather than just as a separate PDF.
Worst case for me if the rules aren't my cup of tea- I get a lot of cool looking figures, a nice book filled with pretty artwork, and lots of toys to play with in whatever rule system works best for me.
I'm more than willing to give their rules a shot. Hopefully they aren't too much of a slog.
The initial gameplay video wasn't incredibly exciting. The feel, rather than the actual rules, reminded me of Confrontation. There are forced movement mechanics that aren't spell based, which is something I think Confrontation was lacking compared to Warmachine, which removed a lot of scenario options.
I haven't played anything but X-Wing for over a year now so rules are not at the top of my list anyway.
A distinct lack of stretch goals beyond 600k, and the pledge rate is not increasing at nowhere near the rate of some KS projects over the final days. Is this lack of added incentives indicative of CMON wanting to not spread themselves too thin so that they can deliver this project pretty close to schedule? Perhaps a bit of learning from previous projects. It is almost like they have said we want to make $500 to $600k and set themselves up accordingly.
Well a possible subsequent stretch is moral counters based on this CMON coment
Sorry to hit and run, we're trying to figure out if we can give away morale counters from sequential D20s - it'd be something everyone would find useful.
but if they are trying to get custom ones done they may run into cost issues, as I know Mierce had to give up on faction specific d10's due to cost, and I'm pretty sure another game had similar issues (d6's are cheap to do everything else not so much)
In terms of new characters the 600K goal is new stuff well in advance of what CMON expected to get to
"We're kind of into new release territory here, but what the heck.... time for a real stretch..."
and
"If we hit our next stretch goal, these models will be pushed to Kickstarter backers ahead of their scheduled retail release..."
so that could well be it for the new stuff mini wise
(I'd quite like a hardcopy of the novel, or just as good a much longer novel)
cincydooley wrote: Yeah. My understanding is not that CMoN is trying to favor WoK over Confrontation, but rather that there are some really significant problems and hurdles to correctly relaunching Confrontation as a full game, the least of which being the rules.
The way I hear it, the rules are far from the least of the problems with a Confrontation relaunch!
cincydooley wrote: Yeah. My understanding is not that CMoN is trying to favor WoK over Confrontation, but rather that there are some really significant problems and hurdles to correctly relaunching Confrontation as a full game, the least of which being the rules.
The way I hear it, the rules are far from the least of the problems with a Confrontation relaunch!
Care to elaborate? Actually curious as to what problems they might be having? Have a bunch of the old figs and was wanting to see how the reboot was coming.
Having to bite my tongue and to recommit to this. Like the figs, but don't see getting a group to play this and don't really know what to use figs for outside the game. Also, plan on going to Gencon next year, so should be able to pick up the "exclusives", albeit at full price there.
There are several issues facing a confrontation relaunch
1. The Phoenix rules re-write were not taken well at all by many of the old players
(well the ones active on the net anyway),
and those players seem to divide into at least two polarised camps over what the 'best bits' of the old system were
2. It's not clear how much in the way of the old models CMON eventually got hold of... reportedly a bunch of the masters were missing and many of the moulds were in poor condition
not a deal breaker but it will certainly cost them a lot more than they anticipated to get stuff back into production
(My guess is now they will jump straight to WoK mix plastic minis but I'm pretty sure that wasn't the intial idea)
3. Recasters.. A bunch of confrontation is being recast, not ideal if you plan to relaunch these minis/units again
4. Sculptors, some have gone elsewhere, others are doing decently as free-lance workers and lot of the feel was down to the sculptors
(I wonder if they are trialling some new ones on WoK to see if they can do the feel)
Well given prior to CMoN's relaunch, I had heard a lot of the Confrontation molds and masters had been thrown in the dumpster. Guess some of them may have still ended up there.
Sounds like the game may not see the light of day soon then. If the old players are so against the rule set, they serve as a base for a very vocal opposition should it move forward without their acceptance. Worse, it sounds like there isn't a clear consensus on what they want.
An CMoN employee had said Confrontation was going to come before WoK. With all the problems you guys list, that probably is why WoK was pushed ahead.
Guys, this isn't a Comfrontation thread. We need to focus on important WoK issues, like bitterly complaining about the Buy Three of the Same Monster Get One Free update (or BTSMGOF as its known in the business).
plastictrees wrote: Guys, this isn't a Comfrontation thread. We need to focus on important WoK issues, like bitterly complaining about the Buy Three of the Same Monster Get One Free update (or BTSMGOF as its known in the business).
This guy knows things about stuff.
I agree about the buy 3 thing.. I'm practically begging for them to give me a reason to throw more money at them and they release this.. The least useful possible option..
Although, for a value vs retail thing it's not so bad. $60 bucks gives you $140 MSRP worth of models.
Maybe the 700k stretch goal will give us the option to buy 3 of any creature and get a 4th free.
Eh.
It's been a fun ride, we're getting a lot for our pledges, but I hate how most of CMON's campaigns just STOP. It's like they hit the wall and say "Congratulations!" and leave it at that.
I guess not every campaign can be an explosion of energy and excitement. I like watching that final countdown on the timer as we're all hoping we get some final goal.
I don't think I'll be doing that this time.
I would love to find myself proven wrong though, and see that CMON has some final trick up their sleeves. It sounded like they did too, judging from a few comments they put up.
Honestly, I'm quite happy with what I've pledged for. Although I might wanna toss in for the Zombicide mini's. Currently, out of my group I'm pledged for:
Nasier Base Set
Twilight Knight
Elsis Tagil & Alayna Heska
Great Horn
The Blind Hakar
Fel Hammer Box
plastictrees wrote: Guys, this isn't a Comfrontation thread. We need to focus on important WoK issues, like bitterly complaining about the Buy Three of the Same Monster Get One Free update (or BTSMGOF as its known in the business).
that was indeed one of the least impressive stretch goals ever seen in a CMON KS, although I'm sure it pleased a few people (where the pledge was made up of several folk all after the same faction)
but unless they come up with free stuff it doen't really matter to me what they put up as I can't spend any more on this (and I'm having to think very hard about whether I give up on the free ancient king and drop back down to $180 instead of $200, nice bases are good, but the teknes ones are not terrible inspiring)
I think it's clear now that CMoN doesn't want this to go much beyond $600k there's been no interaction with the KS comments over the weekend which is unusual given it's the last 24 hours. I expect this to clear $600k in the next hour or so they'll drag their heels on an update so they can call it a day, they might fit 1 more $100k stretch in if they have something to add which they seem to be running out of . Funding ending up somewhere in the $650 to $700k range may be edging just above if people jump in at last minute. In for $145 which is the lowest I've pledged on CMoN KS (other than GoC) but I really only want 2 faction starters, Allison and The Zc stuff.
EDITED or maybe they do want to push this on after all this actually a good stretch at just $50k to but it still shows they don't have much left to add.
Project Update #53: 15 hours to go! Can we squeeze in one more stretch goal?
will have plastic versions included free in each corresponding Faction Starter. These models will be available at retail but will be released to you earlier! The resin preview models will still be available for separate purchase if/after we hit this stretch goal!
I do like the new stretch... free is better (and I can't spend any more)
but it certainly looks like this is all they have done
I'm certainly surprised there are no fancy dice (especially as there's a dice bag) as that would seem to be an easy sell, even if only the D6 had a faction symbol on
Thank you all for showing so much love for Wrath of Kings! Here's a look at the upgraded Faction Starters for Kickstarter with the unlocked characters. With just a few hours left on the clock, we won't be adding more stretch goals (boo...), but we will be working hard to have everything ready to be shipped in May 2014 (yay!)
Also, we'd like to send a thank you to Teskal and Grandfather Punk, two of our backers who maintained this nifty pledge calculator and big graphic of everything respectively!
I would prefer since they did their slow and cautious approach that we actually get things sooner rather than later
However it's a Kickstarter so it'll probably be late anyways.
Still I'm quite happy with what I'll be getting. If Bones and Mars Attacks don't suck me dry I might just go ahead and pledge for an Ancient King in the pledge manager.
A single starter looks to be enough for two people to split and use against each other. I might divvy up the fish to my kids and let them face the full wrath of my nekkid ladies.
Soooo are Cmon going to be doing the usual CMPK for this? if so does it matter what level or how much you pledge to be invited, say $1 to $10.
Still kinda interested in getting the twilight knight and some other choice mini's, just not right this second, kinda want to think if over a bit longer.
Yep CKPM in place later. Pledge $1 and select A la Carte if you want a minimum pledge with an invite.
EDIT actually Rolt as your UK I think you have to commit to $16 you have to pay the shipping as well AFAIKKS won't allow non US backers to avoid the shipping charge. Whatever you do don't pledge $1 and no reward level as they can't send you a CKPM invite at no reward.
I think this ended pretty much where CMoN wanted it to - more than enough funds to produce everything - all shipped in 1 wave and plenty of room for later expansions as they haven't tried to cram more into this for a bit more funding. I think they'll deliver this one on time or dare I say may be even a little early!
Thats pretty much how I figured it too, this KS has funded nicely as is, no need to worry about a full pledge right now, I'll shove in
a $1 for and see if I still want the stuff later, if not its no big loss.
Sorry Rolt just edited my post I'm not sure you can pledge just $1 if your international shipping you might have to pay the $15 shipping charge as well whatever you do don't select no reward.
Just noticed this now has more backers than Relic Knights but will probably end about $200k lower in funding.
Just changed it to A-La- Carte at $16 for both the $1 invite and upfront shipping, still not a huge loss if I decide I don't want the stuff later, so its all cool.
I'm happy with the way this ended. The value is there definitely for the Ancient Kings pledge level. And the models look good for the most part and my cursory view of the gameplay means I might get a game or two in once it arrives. The fact you can grab everything for all factions for $470 is crazy and with an average cost of $1.48 you can't really go wrong.
I'm in for Ancient King and I'm thinking I might pick up the entire range plus bases for at least two of the ranges thru the pledge manager.
DaveC wrote: Sorry Rolt just edited my post I'm not sure you can pledge just $1 if your international shipping you might have to pay the $15 shipping charge as well whatever you do don't select no reward.
Just noticed this now has more backers than Relic Knights but will probably end about $200k lower in funding.
as of right now
3553 backers.
823 A la Carte (this option exploded after the Zombicide crossovers)
256 Commander/single box (This option boomed after the kingdom death cross over nearly 150)
Not saying that everyone who put a pledge for those options have no interest in the game or minis (wrath of kings minis), but the majority are obviously in for the cross over minis. So 27 to 30 percent of the backers?
Had my usual last minute KS freak out and dropped to $16.
Hoping that I won't need to pin down the pledge manager until after the Darklands KS2 is over, as that's WoKs big competition for my $$$ at the moment.
I'm in for $300. It might double once the manager comes out. Mostly while I decide between bases for all the factions and models or more monsters or what not. But I wanted to get 50% of my potential final amount out the door to keep me from spending to much at a time.
The Wrath of Kings Kickstarter campaign has ended with $717k and 1435% funded!
Next steps:
◾Amazon will begin charging credit cards, if your credit card charge fails, you'll have 2 weeks to sort it out before Kickstarter drops your pledge.
◾We'll send out a survey about 3 weeks after the Kickstarter ends asking for just your contact info so we can seed our own database.
◾In about 5 weeks we will send out a pledge manager link to the email address you supplied us, asking you to confirm the items you'd like for your pledge, as well as your shipping address
If you need to contact us about your pledge, email is our preferred method - support@coolminiornot.com. We do read personal messages here as well, although turn around time might be a little longer.
Thank you all for making this campaign a success, and we look forward to getting you your goodies, and launching Wrath of Kings in May 2014!
If (and it's a big if) they get the pledge manager out in only 5 weeks it will be another sign that they want this one done and dusted on time
I feel this whole campaign was about seeing if they could manage the kickstarter to appropriate levels and get the product out on time. And since it's a CMoN only KS (i.e. they are in charge of everything) I think it'll be on time.
Glad for the email though, have to send them stuff about Sedition Wars.....
I think it'll do a lot for their image if their able to keep this one on schedule.
Kaosball seems to be rolling along smoothly. Hopefully Rivet Wars and Relic Knights get out the door soon.
Supposedly they'll be keeping the pledge manager open for a while so that should help too. I know I read it'd be open until the end of the year, but that could just be wishful thinking or fan confusion (or a mixture of both).
I wouldn't mind having a little time off to sit and stew about what I'm getting, especially with a BUNCH of miniature kickstarters all dropping really soon.
I'm most interested in how their restic / plastic combination turns out- using restic for bodies and plastic for weapons is a really good idea that I hope more companies will pick up on. Now that I know more about the differences, I can't stop seeing my privateer press trollblood Fennblades unit as carrying around giant dull butter knives...
I don't know if it is the CMON Sedition Wars factor here or not, but...
...I'm nervous about going in for too much on this one.
Can anyone talk me off the ledge, or push me over?
I like the look of a lot of the models, and Ancient King seems like a great deal, as is the fact that you can literally get everything offered in this campaign for $470.
But the material still concerns me.
If it all turns out like Sedition Wars, especially in terms of 'shrinkage', that would be bad.
I'm glad that they're using a harder material for weapons/sharp edges, etc. - but I'm still not convinced.
Also, has anyone had a look at the full rules?
Is there decent amounts of ranged combat and magic too?
And does anyone know their expansion plans for the game? With a timetable?
I think the discounts on the 'additional stuff' like the big monsters is probably not enough compared to the risk unless you really like them
I think the discounts and additional bits in the faction starters are (if you like all the contents)
they clearly do intend to release more stuff (hence the resin masters figures that eventually got switched to plastic which were originally intended for a post KS release),
but I doubt it will be on the level of a GW or PP (they are just a lot smaller company even allowing for KS) so their games will grow much more slowly
If you don't like the basic material stay away (I'm happy to work with it but it's not as easy as styrene for clean up)
Personally I don't like enough of the minis to consider going all in (even discounting all other factors),
and as a skirmish game it's not going to be as popular as a real boardgame like Zombicide so is unlikely to suffer shortages (or have anything like the resale value) so waiting till retail for the stuff you're less sure as makes more sense
I dropped down to $16 right at the end (from $500).
I might jump back up to two starters, but now that the vague hysteria of an active campaign has died down I'm much more excited about the (relatively) known quantity of Darklands.
Obviously I'll be getting fewer models for my money, but I know they will be fantastic quality. Too many of the WoK models I feel I've persuaded myself that I should like rather than had an immediate interest in.
Surveys sent, we need your email address
Update #57 · Oct 3, 2013 · 10 comments
The surveys are out and we are only asking for your email address at this time (your postal address is a forced question by Kickstarter, and we know it can change between now and shipping). Please complete this simple survey as soon as possible and we will then be able to start sending out the pledge manager links! Also, here are the sculpts for the Ancient King and Iron Eyes!
Nice looking miniatures, but I'll admit to still being wary about going 'all in' on this one - production miniature quality concerns still weigh heavily on me!
Nice looking miniatures, but I'll admit to still being wary about going 'all in' on this one - production miniature quality concerns still weigh heavily on me!
I completely understand that.
The best (or possibly worst) thing that could happen at this point is for backers to get their Relic Knights stuff before the pledge manager for WoK closes. I think that will impact greatly.
Nice looking miniatures, but I'll admit to still being wary about going 'all in' on this one - production miniature quality concerns still weigh heavily on me!
I completely understand that.
The best (or possibly worst) thing that could happen at this point is for backers to get their Relic Knights stuff before the pledge manager for WoK closes. I think that will impact greatly.
That's what I'm hoping for!
Relic Knights' KS ended on 9/9/13.
Stuff was supposed to ship out May 2013.
Stuff is now projected to ship out sometime in November 2013.
If everything looks good, WoK will greatly benefit.
Is Relic Knights actually a CMoN game or is it like Sedition Wars with another studio/company in overall charge of it? Cause if it is then it's still not going to be a good record for quality on a CMoN only product.
I'm in for $300. Not sure if I will wind up all in on all 5 factions, all in on 3 factions without swapping, or all in on 3 factions with swapping. One lets me break pretty much even with what I have. One means I pay 95ish more bucks. And one means $170 more. At least I've got time to think about it. More important is my payment to Mantic for that KS.
If they do wind up selling at the RRP listed you won't find many discounters willing to do over 40% off which is what the all the boxed add-ons are selling for (more in the case of the extra infantry).
...and if we haven't seen any pics of actual Relic Knights minis by then, I'm going to be on the fence about increasing my pledge beyond its current $1.
Meh, for all the complaining about Sedition Wars honestly they were good figs with a few minor exceptions like the River and the Cylon chick. I really like the production on the standard models actually. So for me it's not a big risk.
I think a mountain was made out of a mole hill in regards to quality on the SWKS. I think it was more people not expecting to work in the medium provided. And honestly complaining about the quality on them when we paid $1 each is a little silly.
Granted some of the limited's deserve critique. But that isn't what's being sold here. Stock models are and not one offs so I'm way less worried about it, even based on Sedition Wars. But to each their own. Still not sure if i'm putting any more than my $300 in but I might. Depends on if I'm going all in for everything or just going to flushout 2-3 factions.
The pledge manager is now live (you should have an email about it)
The Ancient King which was free for pledges over $200 only shows up AFTER you've finalised and locked you pledge (paying any extra by paypal),
unlike the Iron Eyes mini & rulebook which show up when you're picking your items (so don't worry that you're missing it)
There are NEW terms and conditions..... It looks like CMON is fed with complaints about delays, materials, lack of communication, the phase of the moon etc
"We are informing you that the products are in design and as presented are not 100% final and that shipping times are an estimate only, and may ship earlier or later. By clicking the "Checkout with PayPal" button below you agree that the final products may differ significantly in name, appearance, composition, color or other material manner, and that the shipping dates may be earlier or later than the provided estimates, and that you also agree that you will not seek a refund or compensation due to these changes. If you do not agree, do not click "Checkout with PayPal" and instead write kickstarter@coolminiornot.com immediately to cancel your pledge for a refund."
I was going to say that having the end date for the survey at 12/31/13 was a good thing - it would let us take a look at production Relic Knights models and decide from there.
I think it's probably a response to the increasing number of KS backers who seem to think it's OK to demand a refund over a wide variety of things they should have thought harder about before they backed
(often because they think a new KS is cooler and want to move their money to that)
I suspect they'd still honour 'reasonable' refund requests even where their T&C say they don't have to (as many other companies do)
but those who backed Relic Knights and demanded a refund to back Rivet Wars and then decided Wrath of Kings or Zombicide 2 looked cooler,,,,, they'll be out of luck
(as I suspect those who are behave like jerks about it too)
EDIT: of course it does mean they could deliver a game with minis made of cheese 5 years after the KS estimated shipment date too )
It's unreasonable to hold people to their agreement? Remember that every refund costs them additional 10% because that goes to Amazon/Kickstarter. The only time I'd honestly say your entitled to a refund on KS is when the product itself isn't delivered period.
Do you buy a video game based on artwork and reading the back of it at BestBuy or GamesStop, take it home, open it up, play it, realize it isn't what you wanted or you don't like it and return it for a cash refund?
You must be seeing something I'm not, or you're WAY more optimistic even after what we've seen ALREADY from Mantic (Sedition Wars) and Mantic (KoW), etc. in terms of reality varying greatly from what was 'promised'.
Those T&Cs come across as pretty snide, insulting and petty.
So yeah, I'm serious - if they fail to deliver based on the expectations set forth in their campaign, they should offer refunds.
No one is suggesting or advocating anything like the ridiculous 'examples' you laid out.
Sorry Alph but the new ToS spells out, for stupid people (and yes, I mean that) the actual ToS from Kickstarter. No one kickstarting is entitled to a refund.
It's not optimism on my part. It's understanding that I'm backing something based on the information provided. But you're saying your entitled to a refund if you don't like the final product or the time it takes to arrive? CMoN is not in charge of your personal expectations since they'll vary from person to person.
I'll go back to my example and phrase it based on expectations. The box sells you the "newest, greatest thing in FPS". If you don't feel that but you expected that are you entitled to a refund? Marketing is Marketing. If your not comfortable on the gamble then don't take it. Don't buy it until it's been reviewed. Don't pre-order and pick up day of. It's not rocket science but expecting a company to provide refunds based on expectations when they do deliver the product is ridiculous.
And say what you will, Mantic and CMoN (Sedition Wars) have delivered the product. It might not have been what people expected or up to everyones standards but it was what was presented. At least I wasn't missing anything I ordered for Sedition Wars. Did they actually fail to deliver any product on that one?
Best way for CMON to tackle this, is to stop with their seasonal Kickstarter preorder program.
don't have to worry about backers trying to pledge hop from one project to the next. Don't have to worry about any legitimate criticisms or BS, opening pledges, closing pledges, dead lines.
And fans can see products the old fashion way to inspect quality before you buy.
Don't have a problem with a small company doing a kickstarter, but being partnered with CMON is just a turn off for me now.
you may get a bucket full of minis with each kickstarter, but I must ask if people intend or actually get around to painting them?
I personally think it is best for smaller companies to avoid CMON, and play small ball to focus on higher quality minis. Something McVey should have done.
Not to be overly analytical, but there would seem to me at first glance to be some non-trivial problems with attempting to modify the terms of a pre-existing agreement in this manner. Seriously now, "payment" has been rendered (for some time now), and the party that has yet to fulfill is imposing additional terms on the party that has completely performed? Hmmm... problematic.
Unless, of course, one is to assume the terms are simply a restatement of the existing terms. In which case they are meaningless.
To be honest, this seems to be actually better for the consumer; it pretty well establishes that if you want to back out now how to get a refund.
Yikes, glad I didn't back Wrath of Kings with that notice. I think all of the pretending about Kickstarter being something other than a pre-order system is kind of funny.
You do realize there wasn't any accountability anyway based on the ToS from Kickstarter itself right?
@Gallahad
It is more than a pre-order system for quite a bit. There are companies that wouldn't be able to get started or expand production without it. Getting something when it's completed isn't always a pre-order. An excellent example would be Dreamforge. Those plastic leviathans wouldn't have come about for years (if ever) without kickstarter, let alone all of the other items he's being able to produce.
@Buzzsaw
Agreed. I think it's a restatement of the risks of kickstarting (i.e. that you aren't entitled to a refund) but also forces people to make the decision now. Instead of during production when people get antsy and see getting a refund as a way to pay for the newest shiny project.
I am not terribly worried about the whole 'Seriously, you can't get your money back' stuff. I always look at KS as a gamble, and so I am only ever willing to back things that are priced at a significant discount to what I would be willing to pay for them, based on how likely I expect it to work out. I think a lot of folks don't do that, treating it either as a pre-order system or something similar, or at least underestimating the risk. I think these sorts of changes are going to push some people away from using KS as much, but that is probably good.
What we are seeing is people starting to properly price the service that is actually being presented. People paying 10% off retail for future models probably is going to go away unless it is from a very reliable company. On the supplier side, I think companies are going to stop using KS as super cheap financing for some lines, and move towards treating it as acceptably expensive financing.
That's my guess, anyway. I am very interested to see how it works out.
I always view Kickstarter as a gamble, and for the record I have bought out two large pledges from backers who were involved in 2 separate campaigns that I was that were unhappy, to give them an out and yet allow the creator to continue to work on their product. I have also contributed extra to another project to enable to the creator to be able to ship. In other words... I am understanding.
But, I consider myself a backer, and "Terms of Service" like that are just not what I consider Kickstarter to be about. I have every expectation of being able to give feedback on a process, express if I am unhappy with the direction of something, and in the campaigns I have been a part of, the creator listens.
To have them say "We've got your money, if you don't like what we're doing, tough- we don't want to hear it" makes me say "Well, I'll order your product when it's available, but I'm not going to Kickstart it".
I have NEVER asked for a refund on a campaign. But, I take the role of "backer" seriously. This is not just a preorder. If they want to treat it as a preorder, that's fine- but that means I won't be giving them my money with terms like that.
Basically, it's a mutual respect thing. I back your project based on your ideas/hopes/dreams (and hopefully a bit of art/sculpts/etc ) and you in turn keep me updated on your progress in fulfillment. If the end product has to differ for whtaever reason, that's fine. I'm about to receive my second pledge that has models in a different material than promised. Several others I'm in are many months overdue. It's the nature of the beast.
But I'm not signing a dotted line like that saying that you have no accountability to me whatsoever. There's give and take here, creators and backers working together to have something made that could not have been made any other way. Terms like that aren't what I think Kickstarter is about, and is why I would never sign something like that and intsead gladly take the refund they offer.
/Kickstarter hipster rant
Note: Also guys, I know this isn't everyone's view on Kickstarter, and that's totally fine. But it's mine, and I think I'm entitled to it just as much as CMON is entitled to say "STFU and take whatever we give you, we've got your money now!1!" which is basically what those terms amount to. If that's a company's attitude, why in the world would I pay upfront rather than wait to see what they will deliver? Every person/company I've kickstarted has viewed themselves as much more accountable to their backers than that, and has worked with them if something didn't meet expectations to try to make it right.
Note2: I also think this campaign will be fine, but it's the attitude that really bothers me about those terms- particularly when they're added AFTER the money has already been taken! Put them front and center on your Kickstarter page, and see what the affect is...
I think you are totally right, RiTides. I think we will see two sorts of KS emerge, at least for minis:
1: The bigger gamble ones that say "Look, give us your cash, then shut up. You either trust us or you don't." They probably won't make much cash due to discounting the product unless they have a really good reputation. Reaper's Bones projects could probably pull this off, but some minor CMON affiliated producer probably can't. These are the guys who might actually make use of those terms and conditions.
2: The smaller gamble products that are either really simple (like clever little jars for bits) or from fairly established smaller companies that have excellent customer relations. Kingdom Death probably exemplifies this type, as Poots had a thing going for a while beforehand and had a good reputation for hard work and good customer service etc. He puts out a KS, gives lots of updates and listens to feedback, and people pile in despite the rather high prices. He announces a delay, and people are almost happy about it. Guys like that can run Kick Starters all day and people will be thrilled. I doubt Poots will ever have occasion to invoke the T&C.
Basically it comes down to a problem of incomplete contracts. How much communication is enough? How close to the concept art do models need to be? How much of a delay is ok? What happens if you spend the money and the thing explodes? It is probably impossible to really work that out and put it in writing, but since you need some sort of decent contract you have to fall back on the seemingly draconian T&C, and hope the creators you are backing see that as a nuclear option which will ruin all their future endeavours.
It does make me a little leery that they reposted the T&C after they took my money, but really I was assuming that was the deal in the first place. When Kick Starter said there was no recourse they would deal with if things went south, I was assuming I was never going to see that cash again. I think that the success of most Kickstarter projects has made people forget that you are making a fairly risky investment.
I almost exclusively back campaigns falling into the second category. This is where you'll see a LOT of interaction between creators and backers. I think even Kingdom Death, despite it's size, may fall into this category (although it's on the line... I nearly backed it, but had put so much into KS at that point that the uncertainty about material made me drop out. Really glad he is going with hard plastic, it will be worth the delay to meet his high standards!).
I think the problem is when people back a "sales" type Kickstarter, thinking there will be updates and accountability to backers. I think the poster child for this blowing up is Sedition Wars. Now, however, people should have the right expectations on the various types of Kickstarters- I didn't go in on WoK because I tend to want to support Developmental ones. But if I did, I'd be pretty sure that my feedback would not have an effect! So, folks thinking they'll get frequent progress updates and creators listening to backer feedback and making adjustments in a campaign such as this, probably need to readjust their expectations for a "sales" type Kickstarter.
If they don't like that, they can come wave their hipster flags with me and stick to more "developmental" ones
It's been really interesting seeing these things develop, and seeing a lot of ideas get funding very quickly in a short span of time! I think now people are getting a better idea of the different types of campaigns, but breaking things down into categories like Hulk had mentioned is helpful to me in thinking about it. It'd be great if Kickstarter would actually do this, but we all know the likelihood of that
(I think for a lot of even earlier Kickstarter supporters, even projects I consider "developmental" and well worth supporting are too corporate for them- my sister, for example, had only backed art / mural / etc projects on there)
It's a great platform but it's helpful to think about the kind of campaigns you want to be a part of, and what you can/should expect from them, before your cash goes out the digital window
I rather like Hulk's breakdown there, though I see Expansion as a subset of Developmental. I think a lot of companies are like Soda Pop where they have a line that makes some cash, but want to expand the line much more quickly than their current cash flow allows. The resulting project falls into the category of "stuff we were going to do anyway" but also into "things we don't mind tweaking from customer feedback, and might still explode."
I think if KickStarters were smart, they would describe themselves as one of those categories and not wait for KS themselves to do it. Basically set the expectations right at the beginning. Particularly if you have things 80% done already, show what you have, say what you can tweak, and go from there.
The real problem will come when those running the KS mistake which category they are in. If you claim to be developmental and totally willing to listen to backers, and then disappear for a few months and get cranky with commenters, everyone is pissed.
You do realize there wasn't any accountability anyway based on the ToS from Kickstarter itself right?
@Gallahad
It is more than a pre-order system for quite a bit. There are companies that wouldn't be able to get started or expand production without it. Getting something when it's completed isn't always a pre-order. An excellent example would be Dreamforge. Those plastic leviathans wouldn't have come about for years (if ever) without kickstarter, let alone all of the other items he's being able to produce.
@Buzzsaw
Agreed. I think it's a restatement of the risks of kickstarting (i.e. that you aren't entitled to a refund) but also forces people to make the decision now. Instead of during production when people get antsy and see getting a refund as a way to pay for the newest shiny project.
Yes, I do realize that.
Did you know that there have been a few successful lawsuits against KS and Campaigns that failed to deliver as expected and those very same "ToS" did not protect them?
All I'm saying is that this seems to be a somewhat clear indication that some people will use KS to generate lots of pledges and may or may not live up to expectations in the end.
Yes, they apparently can do this and have a clear conscience, at least by the KS "ToS" or their own T&Cs - I'm just saying that I'm not so sure we should be overjoyed with it, or continue to feel comfortable backing their projects.
We'll see how CMON performs moving forward, but right now, they've got some hits and some misses, and that updated statement isn't inspiring me to continue giving them my money.
So I suppose in that case, they get what they were after?
I only have issue with a single word they put in that disclaimer and that's "significantly" the rest is fine with me I understand the risks involved in backing kickstarters I know kickstarters own terms and conditions state that backers are not entitled to refunds unless the creator can't fulfill the project and even then you may get nothing if there's nothing left. There's just something that doesn't sit right with saying things could be significantly different in the final product when they've already shown production models and built a KS on the understanding they would be made of a certain type of mixed plastics.
I've filled in the pledge manager I wanted to add another $80 of stuff but there's a nagging voice that keeps saying CMoN = not a penny more - I think this will sit for a few weeks until I've received Rivet Wars and Relic Knights then I'll decide and if I still don't have both of them by December 31st then it really is not a penny more.
You have to have your shipping address locked in by the 10th (this Sunday) they should be packing shortly after then sending them to the distribution centres (by air freight) to be posted on to backers. They have about 7 weeks (I didn't count 1 week for Christmas) to do that and make the 31st of December deadline for the WoK pledge manager that's more than doable but their recent track record suggests it may not go to that plan.
And that is a very good point - Relic Knights models will be out in the wild before Dec. 31st.
I'll make my decision on whether or not to add to my Wrath of Kings pledge once I've seen RH stuff.
This is a potential turning point for CMON - IF the material is good and the RH minis are good, then WoK gets a boost and future projects from CMON can say "just like the RH and WoK stuff" and we'll all be OK with that.
I was all set to add a heap of stuff but after reading that I think I've changed my mind.
After the woeful job they've done on Zombicide it's almost as if they are trying to blame the customer.
DaveC: Ahh great, thanks! I confirmed my address so long ago I completely forgot!
I agree Alph, I think it RK and WoK work out nicely, I would be down for more of these style projects. Especially if I manage to sell off the two spare starter sets from WoK and come out a little ahead of the 100$ pledge
What went so badly with Zombicide? We got our Season 2 stuff without any problems, but I wasn't in the Season 1 kickstarter.
It's the whole sold at Gencon thing while some backers had to wait another 2 months - announcing early shipping then not meeting it, now the game is on sale retail and some backers still don't have it yet. Spilt shipping when they discovered they didn't have some of the product they said they had so some people only have part of wave 1. Generally poor communication and having to drag information out of them. I know that they have had updates to post and just sat on them for days to weeks.
I got my Zombicide stuff it's a month after estimate that doesn't bother me I got the full set and CMoN have fulfilled so far. Others are very upset about it you will get all points of view.
I've been following the AvP thread and the Facebook page and even the mere mention of CMoN is enough to make a lot of people say they won't back it. People are good at talking the talk but when it comes down to it and there's a good enough deal there they'll still quietly back a CMoN project - $700k+ on WoK shows that and Zombicide Season 3 will back that up.
Ahhh I see. My wife actually went in for the Zombicide S2 instead of me, so I didn't see any updates past "Ok, I pledged" and "Holy crap, there's a big box on my door." Really, it was fairly pleasant.
To quote my dad "The best thing about having a bad memory is every mail day can be Christmas."
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: final products may differ significantly in name, appearance, composition, color or other material manner
I've been on the fence with previous CMoN projects, but this was the last straw.
I'm thoroughly done with CMoN Kickstarters, and probably anything else I can get elsewhere (read: just about everything?). Making your terms of service "we have no accountability, shut up" is way too far. As RiTides stated, everyone else says "we'll try our best to deliver."
. But again, that's a crazy good deal!
