Wrath of Kings http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/wrath-of-kings Wrath of Kings is a miniatures war game, where players take command of the armies of on of the five kingdoms of Arikania! Scalable from 10 to 50 models per side, now you can vie for the throne of the Ancient King!
The five factions:
House of Shael Han "Shael Han's demon powered armies appear to be well under the heel of their masters, but who is to say how long this state of affairs will endure? There is something unnerving about their careless sacrifice of souls and living bodies for greater power. Their ambassador is noncommittal and maddeningly vague - we should not rely on them as allies..." - Envoy Harig
House of Nasier "Kartoresh’s Ashman Legions are said to be engaging in nothing more than training exercises across our northern borders. And yet we know their military recruitment has tripled, and exports for war materiel has similarly increased, especially in the specialty lacquers and paints used for their magical war masks. And Scion King Nasier himself is said to have removed the Ancient King’s traditional war mask from the vaults." - Envoy Harig
House of Teknes "In the south, Felskar’s vast military-industrial complex never truly wound down after their ‘glorious humanum uprising,’ as their ambassador calls it. Their ambassador tells me they are retooling to broaden the scope of their technological revolution, but then why do this with the military alone? They rid themselves of ‘ruling classes’ and see it as their responsibility to do the same for all other nations." - Envoy Harig
House of Goritsi "As for Telloria, their vampire ambassador watches everything from his shadowed seat. He smiles often, speaks much, but says little. It is nigh impossible to fathom minds that think in decades rather than years. When war comes, I fear we’ll have no warning when their Night Legion strikes forth into our borders. We can only hope they hit Kartoresh or Achrion first." - Envoy Harig
House of Hadross "The Hadrossian Ambassador categorically denies establishing underwater bases across the whole of the Arikan Sea floor. Yet we know their attacks on Kartoresh maritime forces alone have increased tenfold over the last two years, dragging enemy ships down to the depths despite the lack of a formal declaration of war." - Envoy Harig
Hmm. I might actually back. I'm really only interested in the Goritsi faction though. Thankfully I can back for just one. I'll let the Highlord Tamburlaine get the rest and the rules.
Yeah, I'm in the same boat Orlando. Some of the last faction (Hadross?) models appeal to me, but not all of them... and I certainly don't need the 12 basic spearmen, as I'd be buying them to mix in with other models.
Some Deep Wars models might mesh really well with that faction, though.
Good luck to them, but I have too many KS things still to arrive to back another one - the models look nice, but the aesthetic doesn't grab me the way, say, Mierce did.
Wehrkind wrote: This actually pains me to say: there might be a little too much T&A for me on this one.
But damn, I want those wolves so badly.
I agree with the sentiment, though it pains me not at all. What parts of the aesthetic don't fall under that are just too strange for me to get into. A steampunk octopus, some kind of technognomes and pig-men as one faction? No thanks.
Umm, yeah... until I know who's doing the rules, I wouldn't even consider it. Having playtested some of their rules, Blackball games (who seem to have some sort of in with CMoN), coincidentally, is in my list of rules developers I'd blacklist- their communication was pretty terrible from day 1.
Also, the models look nicely crafted but not a very appealing aesthetic, esp the kind of awkward T&A
I watched the "How to Play" vid and I learned 2 things.
1) Some of the rules seem overly complex.
2) Whoever edited this vid is not very good. The "soundtrack" is too loud and overwhelms the guys trying to explain the rules.
I don't think I will back this. I have my plate full already with 40K (when I get to play). Plus even though I think these are really nice sculpts, I don't actually like any of the subjects. None of these mini's inspire me to get them.
Kolath wrote: Some of the models are kind of cool but the gratuitous depictions of women disgusts me. Pretty much the epitome of misogynistic fantasy.
or, just good, clean, fun...
to each their own...
i personally like the aesthetic...
when the original resins popped up on CMON last year, i thought it was very a fresh and exciting bunch of sulpts...
it's over the top, which is how i like Fantasy...
i will definitely be painting a few of these characters at some point...
This was a game I was looking forward to for well over a year but I have lost a lot of interest in it. If it were a small scale skirmish game such as Malifaux, Mercs or Infinity I would jump in.
2 other things that worry me. Kill the commander and the chain of command suffers. I don't want pull the guilty by association card, but I have played a number of historical games where once your officer or leader is killed, there is no point in play the game anymore.
Not sure how the flow of the game will work, but if it becomes kill the leader, the game would feel rather mundane.
Lastly, after the Sedition Wars kickstarter from CMON, I found out you get what you pay for.
You'll get piles and piles of miniatures. Dirt cheap. more than you could ever paint. But the quality is low.
CMON kickstarters are like buying off the value menu at McDonalds.
Sort of surprised by the "look at all the T&A!" reaction.
Are those of you that hold that opinion mostly talking about the Pelagarth Howl and the Big Sister? Those are the only ones that seem sort of silly.
The actual Pelagarth look pretty unique and nicely sculpted. The sort of thing that Mierce's Melusine's should have been.
Sort of surprised by the "look at all the T&A!" reaction.
Are those of you that hold that opinion mostly talking about the Pelagarth Howl and the Big Sister?
Really, yeah, those are the worst, but in the context of those, basically the entire female line feels pretty much like "look! bewbs!"
It's just pretty tastelessly done. I ca appreciate some nice looking female sculpts, but these just aren't very nice.
also, barely contained breasts (or breasts with pasties on them) just look absurd in the context of melee fighting. That's just going to be a liability when running around and doing anything. Yes, suspension of disbelief and all that noise, but call me a doubter, I don't like things that are obvious problems.
Is this a skirmish game or mass battle? (Or Warmachine-like 'in the middle')?
I like the Ashmen and that's about it, I think they'd make cool alternative Griffin Thallions for Confrontation. Some of the other stuff is okay, but not worth pledging for really.
There seems to be a lot of crossover between this and Confrontation (same rules writers apparently, lots of similar aesthetics, same owners) that makes me wonder how delayed the Confrontation kickstarter will be and what form it will eventually take...
Breotan wrote: It says the figures are plastic. But are they plastic as done by GW/Wyrd or are they done like Mantic/McVey?
They say on the FAQ that they used different plastics for the "organic" shapes and the weapons, but they don't really say (at least that I can see) what type of plastic either are. I would assume its a softer plastic based on their previous kickstarters, but that is just speculation on my part.
Breotan wrote: It says the figures are plastic. But are they plastic as done by GW/Wyrd or are they done like Mantic/McVey?
Both as it happens the bodies and organic stuff is made of the same plastics as PP, SMV, Mantic the weapons and anything hard edged are made of polystrene like GW.
Breotan wrote: It says the figures are plastic. But are they plastic as done by GW/Wyrd or are they done like Mantic/McVey?
Both as it happens the bodies and organic stuff is made of the same plastics as PP, SMV, Mantic the weapons and anything hard edged are made of polystrene like GW.
Tossed in a pledge to watch, but I have no idea if I'll stick it out or not. Nasier and Gortisi are both looking pretty good to me, with Shael Han a maybe (but not enough so to make me pledge extra.)
Interesting way to answer the question about material:
Michael Hughes 4 minutes ago
@CMON: Are these going to be made out of GW style hard plastic or PP style plastiresin? I ask because I absolutely despise cleaning PP minis as the plastiresin is so soft it kind of deforms around tools instead of letting you get a good clean, easy removal of the mold lines.
CoolMiniOrNot 3 minutes ago
@Michael See the video under the Model section and judge for yourself. There's a cleanup and prep as well.
I see some appeal in the Goritsi and Shael Han models themselves. But CMoN burned a few bridges with me on Sedition Wars and something being nearly a year out just doesn't appeal to me anymore honestly. I've found that I don't really have the patience unless it's something I truly am in love with.
I’d like a clear example of play with better audio…
Factions seem cool the gnome pig thing is off a bit, the others are alright. Maybe… this is a big maybe.
xole wrote: Well I think that's about as close to NSFW as you can get. Interesting concept. i will be watching.
Is there a single female mini in this that isn't objectionable in some way? I honestly would love to see a bit of backlash on that. Oh, and what material will these be in and can we pledge for single models?
There are two models that I would say are sexualized. One that an enormous dog person experiencing the feared double nip-slip and one unit that appear to be living, angry fertility goddesses.
Amongst Kickstarters that feature female miniatures at all I'd say the objectionable meter is average at best.
Do people honestly think that the Union Workers are a socio-political statement?
The actual Pelagarth look pretty unique and nicely sculpted. The sort of thing that Mierce's Melusine's should have been.
I'll give you that point, though there's only a few figures across the whole range that appeal to me. Also, CMON running it and McVey-quality plastics make this a definite no-go for me.
Piston Honda wrote: Kill the commander and the chain of command suffers. I don't want pull the guilty by association card, but I have played a number of historical games where once your officer or leader is killed, there is no point in play the game anymore.
Not sure how the flow of the game will work, but if it becomes kill the leader, the game would feel rather mundane.
The way I heard it, it sounded like there would be a chain (or multiple chains) through an army. Killing a model would effect the models lower down its chain. Using 'kill the leader' as the example seems like a poor choice if this is the case.
plastictrees wrote: Are you suggesting that this is the first TTG Kickstarter initiated by the Daily Mail?
If they claim that this game cures cancer (or other games cause cancer), then yes.
There's only one sculpt I like (one of the three Blood Dancers), so this would be an easy miss for me even without CMoN's involvement. Everything else ranges from "Meh" to "Oh hell no".
I gotta say, with the exception of a few models (namely the naked woman: not the fact that they're naked, they just seem really plain to me) and the entire House of Nasier faction, I actually like the majority of them all, seems like solid sculpts, and they all show a lot of character.
I think the gnome faction is really fun looking, and the aquatic faction just pulls at my heart strings just a bit, I do like them a lot.
However, having said that, I just don't think I can do another CMON kickstarter, I'm still waiting on my Relic knights, and until I get it all in my hands and see how well it all is done, I can't justify supporting another preorder.
If the rules are solid I'll have to try it out, maybe even by a starter box just to paint when it hits my FLGS.
Lansirill wrote: Interesting way to answer the question about material:
Michael Hughes 4 minutes ago
@CMON: Are these going to be made out of GW style hard plastic or PP style plastiresin? I ask because I absolutely despise cleaning PP minis as the plastiresin is so soft it kind of deforms around tools instead of letting you get a good clean, easy removal of the mold lines.
CoolMiniOrNot 3 minutes ago
@Michael See the video under the Model section and judge for yourself. There's a cleanup and prep as well.
cool mini or not videos. Now with tactile technology.
Hulksmash wrote: I see some appeal in the Goritsi and Shael Han models themselves. But CMoN burned a few bridges with me on Sedition Wars and something being nearly a year out just doesn't appeal to me anymore honestly. I've found that I don't really have the patience unless it's something I truly am in love with.
Good luck on this.
I'm the same especially when it comes to C'MON as that year turns into 18 months. I have a few of the resins and will keep it that way. To me if the kick starter can't be 5-6 months I don't want it.
They're nice looking enough but I think I'll pass. Been burned by Mantic and aside from PP, I don't really care for faux plastic models. I'll send my money to Wyrd and Dreamforge instead.
It does not appeal to me, it is something about the minis, the sculpts, just does not do it for me, it is already funded so it is a go. I look at them and just do not find any interest in sculpts or the rules
Alpharius wrote: RiTides - you really should have let cincydooley have the first post on this one!
I know, right?
But I actually looked around thinking there'd already be a thread on it when I posted it, and there wasn't... and cincy hasn't even posted in here yet!
The reason I went ahead and put it up is that at the time, and for maybe 20 minutes after posting it, there were still early birds available and I wanted Dakka folks to have a chance to see them (since I had come across this in an email from CMON right after they launched).
so, these are "sprueless plastic" right? Hmm. I'm not a fan of that stuff, but that's primarily because of the horrible mold lines I've had to endure with Privateer and Mantic on them.
I find it odd that there's no stretch goals listed yet. I'm sure it'll have them though since there's characters pictured that aren't in the starters, like that girl with the Nasier that's got her skirt fluttering behind her or that Pit Abomination looking thing with the Goritsi. I hope they aren't going to do like with Deadzone or Toughest Girls and withhold them for a couple days.
Barzam wrote: so, these are "sprueless plastic" right? Hmm. I'm not a fan of that stuff, but that's primarily because of the horrible mold lines I've had to endure with Privateer and Mantic on them.
I find it odd that there's no stretch goals listed yet. I'm sure it'll have them though since there's characters pictured that aren't in the starters, like that girl with the Nasier that's got her skirt fluttering behind her or that Pit Abomination looking thing with the Goritsi. I hope they aren't going to do like with Deadzone or Toughest Girls and withhold them for a couple days.
They have passed two already. 75k was adding infantry to each starter. 100k added another variant sculpt to each set, which are the stretches for 125k and 150k as well.
Kolath wrote: Some of the models are kind of cool but the gratuitous depictions of women disgusts me. Pretty much the epitome of misogynistic fantasy.
I count 4 T&A models, and 3 of those are BBW's, which are pretty unusual for any depiction, let alone a sexualized one. I guess you could count the furries if you're into that. Its certainly not designed to titlate your average audience. I'd originally thought the design as a whole was just too damn French to get much traction, but it looks like I'm wrong on that count. I do dig the Hadross though.
cybogoblin wrote: It's like they took some of the Confrontation aesthetic, and added more T&A. Some of the models are great, but some... no thanks.
I guess I'll go back to waiting for an actual Confrontation update.
Pretty much this. I wanted to like this, but the more I saw the less interested I got. It kills me that the Wrath of Kings guys are the ones that are supposedly in charge of Confrontation: Pheonix edition that we haven't had any news on in a year. Supposedly this will not interfere with Pheonix ed, but I don't see how that's possible.
This is way too Malifaux for me. By that I mean that every single faction has a few awesome models that I love, but absolutely none of the factions as a whole interest me. Oh well, at least I'll get some cool new plastic wolfen style models to play with.
Standard-issue CMoN pandering in the form of overdesigned, oversexualized models, with rules thrown in as an afterthought, complete with possible casting issues due to terrible material. Even CMoN realize this one's a stinker and want to sell it off for pennies (is this the cheapest of CMoN kickstarters or what?). Pass.
Edouard Guiton is doing character concepts for this game, which explains the striking similarities between Wolfen and WoK werewolves.
BTW, if you buy into this expecting any support for the game once it's rolled out of the warehouse, think again.
2 other things that worry me. Kill the commander and the chain of command suffers. I don't want pull the guilty by association card, but I have played a number of historical games where once your officer or leader is killed, there is no point in play the game anymore.
Not sure how the flow of the game will work, but if it becomes kill the leader, the game would feel rather mundane.
Both Infinity and Warmachine have shown this can be a perfectly viable elements of the mechanics if it is designed well.
Pacific wrote: Kind of surprised by the general reaction here, thought some of these minis are rather nice!
I do like some of the sculpts. My problem is the way the figures are being made. McVey, Mantic, and PP all use a sprueless casting technique to produce their product. I really dislike it. Then again, I think most Mantic figures are terribad and I'm slightly disappointed in McVey and only tolerate PP because I've got friends who play and so it's something that isn't GW that I participate in. Wyrd, on the other hand, does it the right way. So does Dream Forge. I just don't see why more companies are unable to follow suit.
Breotan wrote: My problem is the way the figures are being made. McVey, Mantic, and PP all use a sprueless casting technique to produce their product. I really dislike it. Then again, I think most Mantic figures are terribad and I'm slightly disappointed in McVey and only tolerate PP because I've got friends who play and so it's something that isn't GW that I participate in. Wyrd, on the other hand, does it the right way. So does Dream Forge. I just don't see why more companies are unable to follow suit.
True. A lot of Mantic sculpts are terrible (and far, far, far too expensive for what you get). But their rules are generally very good (even though DreadBall took somewhat of a nose-dive with Season 2) and - most importantly - Mantic is really putting a lot of effort into creating a gaming scene for their games. Regular tournaments. Events. Tournament packages for stores/clubs that want to organize them.
The beauty of Mantic is that you can actually go out there an play these games, even if your closest group doesn't, or doesn't often enough.
For a small model count skirmish game, I'm seeing way too many repeat sculpts. If I'm fielding 12 infantry, I'd want them to have more than 3 highly individual poses. For it not to look bad, you'd either need to tone them down so repeats don't look so bad, or to do more variants.
There's a lot of stuff shown off that aren't in the boxes yet- Goritsi has a few more wolves (with clothing and armor even!) and vampire types, Hadross has a GIANT OCTOPUS, and there's plenty of named figures all around that are missing.
I'm wondering if the big stuff like the octopus and the dragon will be an eventual add on or not. Would love to see everything dumped in the boxes. Doubt it, this being a CMON campaign.
I wonder if we'll see any sharks or reptiles at some point.
Between Reaper, Pathfinder, Deep Wars, and the Hadross I could put together one awesome aquatic themed army. Nothing but sharks and cepholopods. Better yet have two separate armies and let them hash it out between each other for aquatic dominance!
-DE- wrote: Standard-issue CMoN pandering in the form of overdesigned, oversexualized models, with rules thrown in as an afterthought, complete with possible casting issues due to terrible material. Even CMoN realize this one's a stinker and want to sell it off for pennies (is this the cheapest of CMoN kickstarters or what?). Pass.
Wait up, I thought we were bashing on CMON for the Relic Knights models being under-detailed? It's so hard to keep track.
squall018 wrote: I like the look of this, but CMON has had so many problems with their kickstarters, I think I may sit this one out.
This is where I am. I actually like the aesthetics (very much like Confrontation) and the price point, but I'm still waiting on my Relic Knights Kickstarter from. them. Will think aout it for a few days and see if they add any stretch goals to make it more worth it to wait a year.
-DE- wrote: Standard-issue CMoN pandering in the form of overdesigned, oversexualized models, with rules thrown in as an afterthought, complete with possible casting issues due to terrible material. Even CMoN realize this one's a stinker and want to sell it off for pennies (is this the cheapest of CMoN kickstarters or what?). Pass.
Wait up, I thought we were bashing on CMON for the Relic Knights models being under-detailed? It's so hard to keep track.
The problem is C'MON is horrible when it comes to supporting their games. I have been waiting for two years for this to come out and am rather underwhelmed by it. I think this in part too is because of the fact that I spent so much on relic knights and still have NOTHING to show for it. Another problem is the game will release but they won't support it in anyway until they are ready to kick start the next wave.
In somewhat-related news, While I know the Sedition Wars stuff is actually getting close to shipping, I've noticed CMON being a lot more communicative lately with updates. Total Co-inky-dink, I'm sure.
Though GoC was termed (even by CMON) as a mini-KS, with a really deliberately small scope. Either way, I'm not especially fond of them at present, and I'd like to see them complete a whole lot more of their projects before spending money with them again...
The thing is, I'd absolutely dump a fortune on a good fantasy skirmish game, with an engrossing high-fantasy background (played a little more straight and with fewer bad jokes) and fast gameplay.
It's probably the first CMON Kickstarter that - going by the "classification of the game" - would interest me.
But it feels a bit "by-the-numbers". The factions more for the sake of having 5 factions of some kind, rather than .. dunno .. a fantasy setting with people, races and conflicts that you could truly sink your teeth in.
Mordheim meets Exalted mixed with some Rackham flavouring sounds utterly brilliant to me. But for some reason.. this isn't.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Isn't Zombicide Season 2 shipping out this month though? Or at least beginning to?
I thought I read somewhere they'd have copies at Gen Con too.
Parts of it. Apparently. (Maybe.) Some parts available on the Saturday of GenCon as well.
Ok, I gotta admit, the more I look at the models for this game, the more they start to appeal to me. I guess the main problem for me is that the theme and over all aesthetic for each faction isn't really clear to me, at least without a lot of looking.
The other problem is that I don't really care about the game so much as the models. I already have Relic Knights coming... someday... as another game to play past WMH, so these would be nice to have. But those wolves will be very nice to have, so we'll see.
Agamemnon2 wrote: For a small model count skirmish game, I'm seeing way too many repeat sculpts. If I'm fielding 12 infantry, I'd want them to have more than 3 highly individual poses. For it not to look bad, you'd either need to tone them down so repeats don't look so bad, or to do more variants.
So far we have 5 sculpts for basic troops… it started at 3 for the basic unit at 100K stretch it added another variant sculpt to infantry at 125K another and it is now 136kish at 150K we get a 5th alt to the infantry units… 5 alternates and conversions. by tomorrow it'll be 6 alts.
I’m a little worried about the medium it’s cast in… was Sedition Wars bad molding or too bendy? I’ve never dealt with the medium so I’m just unsure about it..
As far as the Minis they’ve been out on CMON for a bit now so there are some I’m hoping to see in the KS.
For 100 buck you get (as of now) around 80 models and a rules book… ok… and the complaint is? throw in 200 and make a proxy fantasy army.
And for the nudity… it’s causes an idiosyncratic reaction perfect for the target audience (males 15-40) and that reaction works well…
Ask 2 million plus KS mastermind and Kingdom death owner Adam Poots.
It’s for adults. I think it’s just fine. But I’m an Adult I can make that choice… the choice is there for me to make as an adult. If you don’t like it let you money talk but, Sex sells Always has, Always will… That will never change because we are mammals and sin hearted talking primates. Maybe someday we’ll evolve into some form of androgynous Startrek genderless 4 color unitard creatures. But until then we have girl and boy parts and most of us like them and we also like sexuality.
Also every KS mentioned for the most part is a Joint effort.
Sedition wars: Mcvey/CMON
Zombicide: Guillotine/CMON
Relic Knights: Soda Pop/CMON
None of the blame go to the other side it’s all CMONs fault?
Mcvey got Jacked by a phony printer press scam so that’s CMONs fault?
Soda Pops moving on it 3D renders at a snail’s pace So that’s CMONs fault?
Must be all CMONs fault…
it's too cheap, theres too much nudity, it's too complex , it's not cheap enough, it's too dumbed down, theres not enough nudity, too much sword, too much like rackham, not enough like rackham, too steam punk, not enough gothic, too much gothic... Pheesh.
Pleasing you guys is a full time job.... just the PR nightmare that gamers can be
I’m getting upset so I’ll stop now.
I think I’m going to back this one and hope for the best.
I jumped in on an early bird, so I'll hold my pledge for the moment while I wait for Phase 2 of SW to deliver.
Quite frankly, I still have bad enough memories of cleaning up Dreadball Season 1 that I never touched SW beyond the first figure. If the mold lines on Phase 2 are as bad as Phase 1 or Phase 2 doesn't get to me before this one finishes up, I'm out..
I have serious concerns about CMoN learning the right QC lessons from SW.
5deadly wrote: I’m a little worried about the medium it’s cast in… was Sedition Wars bad molding or too bendy? I’ve never dealt with the medium so I’m just unsure about it..
It's mostly the same s PP's: thick mold lines that you need a very sharp knife to clean, and some things have beent and need to be heated to set properly. Not cheap toy soldier plastic, but I vasty prefer Wyrd's and GW's
I love some of the figures, got several of them from the early resin release. But do I really want any of them in plastics? No, don't think so. I will most likely not back this project, and I was actually looking forward to it earlier. :/
The union workers, by the way, are really awesome figures. And the Longhorn is another favorite, too. Just a shame it's, again, plastics. :/
5deadly wrote: I’m a little worried about the medium it’s cast in… was Sedition Wars bad molding or too bendy? I’ve never dealt with the medium so I’m just unsure about it..
It's mostly the same s PP's: thick mold lines that you need a very sharp knife to clean, and some things have beent and need to be heated to set properly. Not cheap toy soldier plastic, but I vasty prefer Wyrd's and GW's
Ok I dig. Dreamforge and Wyrd are using Wargames factory... they are pretty good.
I've just never built PP models before (I know right?!?!?! what?) just never got into it. I'm sure I can Model the mold lines of and get some ggod stuff... does it hold detail well?
If the material is the same as used for sedition wars I don't have any problems with it
(but you do have to treat it differently from GW polystyrene when cleaning it up, slicing off mould lines with a sharp blade rather than scraping/filing). It takes a little longer, but not much longer
I found the mould lines on Sedition Wars were far better than those on Dreadball season 1 (but there was a lot of variation in what you got with Dreadball ranging from ok to truly horrible)
The only thing that might not have been expected was having to dip bits in hot water to reshape them, but with this material it's REALLY easy to do
5deadly wrote: I’m a little worried about the medium it’s cast in… was Sedition Wars bad molding or too bendy? I’ve never dealt with the medium so I’m just unsure about it..
It's mostly the same s PP's: thick mold lines that you need a very sharp knife to clean, and some things have beent and need to be heated to set properly. Not cheap toy soldier plastic, but I vasty prefer Wyrd's and GW's
Ok I dig. Dreamforge and Wyrd are using Wargames factory... they are pretty good.
I've just never built PP models before (I know right?!?!?! what?) just never got into it. I'm sure I can Model the mold lines of and get some ggod stuff... does it hold detail well?
It's...weird. I think SW got better use out of the material than PP has (and, yeah, kinda' expected most people to have exp with that line), but I'd say, no, it doesn't hold detail that well. Well, rather, it holds detail, but isn't very crisp. As an example, you might get a clean scar on someone's face that's a subtle sculpt, but you might not get a crisp edge to a plate of armor. IIRC it has something to do with how the material shrinks when hardening.
The mold lines really are a complete pain: you can't scrape them or file them... I dunno, I've been doing this stuff for 15+ years, and it's just a really irritating material to work with. Definitely not impossible, but the worst I've worked with.
Don’t say a grumpy old troll never did a kind deed.
And the one roll system seems cool I roll D10 vs. you card and the result has effect X easy enough…
It's the way a lot of these miniatures are going to be done by these smaller companies for the time being at least (and CMoN is still a small company at the end of the day) it costs them $5k to $10k to make one of these molds as they are rubber/silicone (or similar) as opposed to the $50k plus that a styrene plastic mold made from steel needs, so they can mold more miniatures in "Restic" than they can in Styrene, Stryene molds would probably only allow them to do one faction and people probably won't buy in for that.
The other interesting development is they seem to have come up with a way of doing sprueless styrene pieces - the weapons for Wrath of Kings and the Terrain and Drones for SW I'll be very interested to see what they are like when I get them. I must ask Mike about that process as it's new one to me (sprueless styrene that is).
Restic is a pain to clean up but I've found the details to be good on all the Restic miniatures I have and if it costs me $1 for a Restic mini or $15 for a Resin one I'll take 15 of the $1 ones (except for special one off pieces ) I have several of SW pieces in resin and while some of the details are a bit softer in the restic versions I wouldn't be to inclined to spend the extra on the resins as gaming pieces - as display pieces different story
Besides, ~10K /frame is what Dreamforge was tooling PS sprues for, apiece, with WGF&co and really, rubber molds are the kind of thing you c an make in your shed once you have the masters in hand Get the facts straight, please
5deadly wrote: And for the nudity… it’s causes an idiosyncratic reaction perfect for the target audience (males 15-40) and that reaction works well…
Ask 2 million plus KS mastermind and Kingdom death owner Adam Poots.
It’s for adults. I think it’s just fine. But I’m an Adult I can make that choice… the choice is there for me to make as an adult. If you don’t like it let you money talk but, Sex sells Always has, Always will… That will never change because we are mammals and sin hearted talking primates. Maybe someday we’ll evolve into some form of androgynous Startrek genderless 4 color unitard creatures. But until then we have girl and boy parts and most of us like them and we also like sexuality.
Where I think you are mistaken is that half of this stuff is fan disservice, to borrow a term from TV Tropes. I like the Blood Dancer with the claws and two of the three Pelagarths and the Dance Master look okay, but then you've also got some wolf-goat thing with its tits out, and jackals wearing corsets. I'm sure there's someone on the internet who likes them, but I think a lot of people would have a hard time seeing them even as worth $0, rather than actively lowering their perception of the value of the box.
Here's an interesting development the KS profile that Guillotine Games were using for the Zombicide KS has now changed to 5Houses - the team that's developing the WoK rules
I guess it's the same as a bunch of Cyper and Soda Pop folk making up Ninja Division for Robotech tactics
It helps keep projects separate for accounting reasons, and if anything goes wrong financially (gods forbid) with one company then you don't risk loosing your other IPs and cashflow
it's too cheap, theres too much nudity, it's too complex , it's not cheap enough, it's too dumbed down, theres not enough nudity, too much sword, too much like rackham, not enough like rackham, too steam punk, not enough gothic, too much gothic... Pheesh.
Pleasing you guys is a full time job.... just the PR nightmare that gamers can be
I’m getting upset so I’ll stop now.
Speaking for myself:
1) I don't like CMON. Based on a) Their past history. b) Their communication is great when asking you for money. After they have it - their communication is gak.
2) I don't like the material. I've painted a total of NONE Sedition Wars or DreadBall figures made out of this particular plastic to date. I've got no strong urge to start anytime soon. Spiralingcadaver's comments on the material sum it up well.
3) The designs of these figures don't do much for me. The Not-Devourer/Wolfen look fine, but I've got a ton of unpainted Wolfen already, so the one faction that's okay is a non-event for me.
Taarnak wrote: Out of curiosity, are there any size comparison photos out?
~Eric
Between the WoK models and other ranges? The original resins have been out for a bit so I'm sure there's something floating about, nothing on the KS page though afaik.
The videos give you a good sense of internal scale.
Liking this more and more for some reason, the factions feel much more coherent to me now.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The material combo seems very much like what Adam was considering for Kingdom Death as the weapons seemed to be the biggest problem area for his original plastic test casts.
I know that he is loosely affiliated with CMoN so I wonder if this is a good indicator of what he will be doing for KD?
Taarnak wrote: Out of curiosity, are there any size comparison photos out?
~Eric
Sedition wars Samaritan (Studio McVey), WoK Union Worker (CMON), 40k Bart the one armed Orc (GW), Studio McVey's LE Kara Black
Spoiler:
Standing pic
Spoiler:
Standing pic with Wrath of King Blood Child (far right)
Spoiler:
As a note, with the material CMON uses there is considerable shrinkage in miniatures that are bulky/large compared to small, slim miniatures which don't really show any shrinkage at (Sedition Wars Akosha, Kara BlaclBarker Zosa)
Quasimodo Metal vs "restic" plastic (Sedition wars)
Spoiler:
metal vs plastic Brimstone
Spoiler:
I have a few more WoK minis in one of my bins, if I find them, I post them as well.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I guess it's the same as a bunch of Cyper and Soda Pop folk making up Ninja Division for Robotech tactics
It helps keep projects separate for accounting reasons, and if anything goes wrong financially (gods forbid) with one company then you don't risk loosing your other IPs and cashflow
?? What ??
Are you suggesting that CMONs 5 house team are from Ninja division/Soda Pop and Cypher Studios?
Speaking for myself:
1) I don't like CMON. Based on a) Their past history. b) Their communication is great when asking you for money. After they have it - their communication is gak.
2) I don't like the material. I've painted a total of NONE Sedition Wars or DreadBall figures made out of this particular plastic to date. I've got no strong urge to start anytime soon. Spiralingcadaver's comments on the material sum it up well.
3) The designs of these figures don't do much for me. The Not-Devourer/Wolfen look fine, but I've got a ton of unpainted Wolfen already, so the one faction that's okay is a non-event for me.
These guys are Busy beavers and might not have all the answers/time to answer 10000s e-mails… did Hulk Hogan personally write you back about eating your vitamins or why he lost to Rowdy Piper? It’s a small company. I give them my money and I wait for my product… If its late it’s late that’s life and business. what do you need to ask them? I’m curious? People expect these guys to be at the beck and call? I don’t get that. This sort of behavior isn’t expected from other companies why from them (or any other KS company)
I can’t speak on the material.
I like the overall look of the game as a whole… if a certain model is meh then whatever. That’s a given in war-games.
@ Piston Honda Thanks man. Resnic isn’t that bad, the pig guys are pretty big.
Between the WoK models and other ranges? The original resins have been out for a bit so I'm sure there's something floating about, nothing on the KS page though afaik.
The videos give you a good sense of internal scale. Liking this more and more for some reason, the factions feel much more coherent to me now.
I agree. I’d want to support this and hope they might support an in-house game like this for themselves. It could grow legs with a big enough audience.
These guys are Busy beavers and might not have all the answers/time to answer 10000s e-mails… did Hulk Hogan personally write you back about eating your vitamins or why he lost to Rowdy Piper? It’s a small company. I give them my money and I wait for my product… If its late it’s late that’s life and business. what do you need to ask them? I’m curious? People expect these guys to be at the beck and call? I don’t get that. This sort of behavior isn’t expected from other companies why from them (or any other KS company)
I can’t speak on the material.
I like the overall look of the game as a whole… if a certain model is meh then whatever. That’s a given in war-games.
CMON is really that bad in terms of communication, even before kickstarter.
took nearly 6 weeks to get a refund from CMON on a several hundred dollar order that they never sent, and only refunded me after a paypal claim was issued. Multiple emails sent to them and not a single reply. This was before any kickstarter.
this happened again sometime after their second kickstarter.
from the outside looking in CMON seems to be cheap on hiring any help. They have seemed to changed their tune after a mob with pitch forks formed due to complaints regarding Sedition Wars.
I'm not to sure about their shady past many people have talked about. Has something to do with a company called new wave?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
plastictrees wrote: Just to be totally clear Piston Honda, the WoK minis you posted are the available resins right?
that would be correct. they are resin, which I would not recommend for gaming. In particular, the squid people.
gohkm wrote: ...CMON is supposedly New Wave phoenix-ed.
Holy hell! Really? Hmm, if that is true then... wow.
They owe me a few Warzone minis if that's true.
*further reading*
Ah, I see, all run by David Doust. Hmm, may end up continuing to avoid them now simply because I don't really want to give that guy my money. Man, just hearing about New Wave brings me back a ways.
Oh well, at least he seems to be avoiding trouble this time around.
Speaking for myself:
1) I don't like CMON. Based on a) Their past history. b) Their communication is great when asking you for money. After they have it - their communication is gak.
2) I don't like the material. I've painted a total of NONE Sedition Wars or DreadBall figures made out of this particular plastic to date. I've got no strong urge to start anytime soon. Spiralingcadaver's comments on the material sum it up well.
3) The designs of these figures don't do much for me. The Not-Devourer/Wolfen look fine, but I've got a ton of unpainted Wolfen already, so the one faction that's okay is a non-event for me.
These guys are Busy beavers and might not have all the answers/time to answer 10000s e-mails… did Hulk Hogan personally write you back about eating your vitamins or why he lost to Rowdy Piper? It’s a small company. I give them my money and I wait for my product… If its late it’s late that’s life and business. what do you need to ask them? I’m curious? People expect these guys to be at the beck and call? I don’t get that. This sort of behavior isn’t expected from other companies why from them (or any other KS company)
I can’t speak on the material.
I like the overall look of the game as a whole… if a certain model is meh then whatever. That’s a given in war-games.
Wow, you're clearly either a massive aggro white knight fanboi, or exceptionally obtuse. Or both. There's no need for the childish hyperbole here if you want to discuss things like a grown-up. I think you mean Rowdy Roddy Piper, too, hotshot.
While I haven't actually emailed them, yeah, I damn well expect a timely reply to any emails to them considering the $700+ I dropped on Sedition Wars. I don't give a damn how small they are. And, by the way I do expect a reply if I email a query to any company that I've sent money to. It hasn't been a problem for companies like Mantic, or Dreamforge, or Red Box, or any of the other companies I've contacted from the 30-odd KS I've backed to reply to simple, polite queries on various topics.
But here I'm actually talking about the lack of communication to their KS backers for months. As in outstanding communication and updates while they're standing there with their hand out, asking for money, and then pretty much disappearing once they have it in hand. I'm not just blaming CMON for Sedition Wars either. McVey have done their dash with me as well.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
plastictrees wrote: They've been around for a solid decade now haven't they? If they are shady they are playing a very long con.
I don't think they're deliberately running a con or anything like that. I'm sure they'll be totally legit, right up until/if something bad happens in their business. At which point they've already demonstrated their quality and the options they'll take.
This might be of interest if it wasn't for the "12 guys, 3 sculpts" thing. Many of those figures are models wouldn't mind owning 1 of but have little interest in 4 of. The price is good though, so perhaps I could trade them off. Also, it kind of feels like random sculpts shoe horned into one game together - the fluff and the figures don't go well together. Fat naked women with swords, shields and masks is kind of interesting and original. In a sketchy way. But I'm supposed to think they're part of some co-ordinated war machine that stockpiles war material? Huh?
kestral wrote: This might be of interest if it wasn't for the "12 guys, 3 sculpts" thing. Many of those figures are models wouldn't mind owning 1 of but have little interest in 4 of. The price is good though, so perhaps I could trade them off. Also, it kind of feels like random sculpts shoe horned into one game together - the fluff and the figures don't go well together. Fat naked women with swords, shields and masks is kind of interesting and original. In a sketchy way. But I'm supposed to think they're part of some co-ordinated war machine that stockpiles war material? Huh?
Pardon my ignorance, but is that not the case with mass battle games? Warhammer Fantasy and Kings of War, having a limited number of sculpts/poses for a unit?
the game says that it can play with very few models, but they seem to really market towards larger scale games.
I'll try not clutter up this topic with a bunch of mud slinging (even though reading through those posts they certainly deserved it) and drudging up past problems.
Happy to hear that we'll be able to get add on a la cartes for various figures- I just want a few Ashmen swordsmen, but not the whole box... but being a CMON kickstarter who knows how much junk will be in the box by the time this is done.
I haven’t had the same experience with them as some have. My experience with CMON has been good.
Why is it if one speaks the positive of a company it’s “Fanboy” or some form of “you’re on their team”
It's really simple to me… if you were burned by them of feel cheated don’t buy from them. If I feel cheated by someone I won’t give them money over and over again and if I was to question the ethics of a company (newwave to CMON issues and all the tardiness on kickstarters) I most defiantly would not hand them $700 mighty (scoffs) dollars. I bought a couple things from them… All perfectly fine, on time and to the quality I expected.
If someone spent over $700 dollars I would tend to think they might be the biggest fanboy of all, as money talks and where you spend your money tells the tale of your taste and preference.
It’s ok to like CMON products. Don’t be shy.
Generally why people feel the need to be kept “in the Loop” is beyond me. If something becomes a “real” problem I handle it.Extremely late to ship. I get a refund or never do business with them again. Very Simple...
As a Man and the controller of my destiny I don't need my hand to be held through any purchase the least of which would be my little hobby toy collectables.
As a Warlock and controller of the paths of whispering ghosts I also didn't notice the lack of ranged units until you mentioned it.
I'd imagine that we'll see a "every faction gets a ranged troop type!" stretch at some point, along with a "big monster" stretch etc.
Can we say that there are no casters? The teenager either falling over of flying ass first into the air looks like she has at least completed a correspondence course in air bending.
It's kind of strange that there are stretch goals being met, but they're not up on the main page. And no add-ons? That's weird for a CMON Kickstarter.
For those of you complaining about having multiples of the same sculpt, extra alternate sculpts for infantry have been the first few stretch goals. Some of those have already been met, so there won't be a ton of the same three figures forming the armies.
plastictrees wrote: I'm assuming we won't be getting very regular updates until GenCon is over.
My assumption as well. I think they're demoing it over the weekend, so hopefully someone here gets a chance to play it.
I'm still scratching my head over the dice bag stretch goal. Seriously? A bag? From the sound of things there aren't any dice inside it either. It's just a bag.
Hopefully they'll end up including the dice in the bag. Otherwise that just seems kind of pointless. Unless custom dice are a further add on/ stretch.
Can we say that there are no casters? The teenager either falling over of flying ass first into the air looks like she has at least completed a correspondence course in air bending.
Almost pissed myself man that was funny in the best way. I read something about magic in the rule book.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Has anyone else read the rules I linked?
plastictrees wrote: I'm assuming we won't be getting very regular updates until GenCon is over.
My assumption as well. I think they're demoing it over the weekend, so hopefully someone here gets a chance to play it.
I'm still scratching my head over the dice bag stretch goal. Seriously? A bag? From the sound of things there aren't any dice inside it either. It's just a bag.
Hopefully they'll end up including the dice in the bag. Otherwise that just seems kind of pointless. Unless custom dice are a further add on/ stretch.
That's a bit unimpressive all right the dice will probably be a later stretch goal CMoN like them and the game seems to use counters so expect them. Apparently the $225k goal is a WoK tape measure.
Taarnak wrote: Out of curiosity, are there any size comparison photos out?
~Eric
Sedition wars Samaritan (Studio McVey), WoK Union Worker (CMON), 40k Bart the one armed Orc (GW), Studio McVey's LE Kara Black
Spoiler:
Standing pic
Spoiler:
Standing pic with Wrath of King Blood Child (far right)
Spoiler:
As a note, with the material CMON uses there is considerable shrinkage in miniatures that are bulky/large compared to small, slim miniatures which don't really show any shrinkage at (Sedition Wars Akosha, Kara BlaclBarker Zosa)
Quasimodo Metal vs "restic" plastic (Sedition wars)
Spoiler:
metal vs plastic Brimstone
Spoiler:
I have a few more WoK minis in one of my bins, if I find them, I post them as well.
Thank you very much, and please do post if you find others. I appreciate it.
Look to be a bit on the large side. Although that could just be those particular models.
We just got these delivered to us at Gencon and took some quick photos of them in the case. These are production test shots, we might need some mold adjustments to improve mold lines but these have
had minimal clean up, and in our opinion, look fantastic.
If you're at Gencon, come by and have a look! These are pretty much the final material except for color which we're experimenting with for ease of priming and painting, while still looking good "raw".
Once primed, the detail on these pop out even more! As for the huge models that you're seeing, they'll be announced as the Kickstarter progresses
Quite like Goricsi myself (go figure), looking forward to seeing the Scourge Hound in mini form, my bro likes Hadross so I might have to consider backing this at the $100 level, a very good deal in my humble opinion. The fact that this won't arrive till 9+ months time is something of a plus for me, as it gives me time to finish up my other projects. Come to think of it this is the first time I've posted in over a month, miss me Dakka?
kestral wrote: This might be of interest if it wasn't for the "12 guys, 3 sculpts" thing. Many of those figures are models wouldn't mind owning 1 of but have little interest in 4 of. The price is good though, so perhaps I could trade them off. Also, it kind of feels like random sculpts shoe horned into one game together - the fluff and the figures don't go well together. Fat naked women with swords, shields and masks is kind of interesting and original. In a sketchy way. But I'm supposed to think they're part of some co-ordinated war machine that stockpiles war material? Huh?
That was one of the big problems with the not-Blood Bowl game they came out with recently. As well as the game not seeming like all that much fun to play.
Stretches have already added three variant sculpts. I can't think of any range that doesn't have multipose plastics that didn't repeat sculpts in units larger than 5.
Gameplay, I'll look through the videos etc. Honestly unless reading the rules sears the flesh from my bones it will get the same 2-3 plays per year that any other game gets from me and my friends. Anything I pledge on is just fuel for my delusional future nerd project engine.
I posted a link to the basic rules and cards a few pages back... look like fun to me. I like the easy play style and design. I made my pledge this morning.
Wehrkind wrote: This actually pains me to say: there might be a little too much T&A for me on this one.
But damn, I want those wolves so badly.
I agree with the sentiment, though it pains me not at all. What parts of the aesthetic don't fall under that are just too strange for me to get into. A steampunk octopus, some kind of technognomes and pig-men as one faction? No thanks.
I'm with you guys here. Browsed the KS page, the aesthetics either simply doesn't appeal to me or pandered in a way that insulted me to be part of the target audience. To each their own, this just ain't my thing.
Then I read the rest of the thread and it cemented that lack of interest, due to the issues presented.
Barzam wrote: It's kind of strange that there are stretch goals being met, but they're not up on the main page. And no add-ons? That's weird for a CMON Kickstarter.
For those of you complaining about having multiples of the same sculpt, extra alternate sculpts for infantry have been the first few stretch goals. Some of those have already been met, so there won't be a ton of the same three figures forming the armies.
Just FYI guys, I'll update the OP after GenCon with these.
Its not much of an update just a fluff segment focusing on a character called Irene, regardless its pretty cool stuff, gets me more interested in this game and the Goritsi faction at least.
Its not much of an update just a fluff segment focusing on a character called Irene, regardless its pretty cool stuff, gets me more interested in this game and the Goritsi faction at least.
Enjoy.
Irene is the "KS exclusive" mini, if anyone isn't aware.
It was good, I thought. Compares well to any other TTG background story that I've read, which may not be the highest literary compliment in the world, but it was enjoyable.
I was given time to handle the production models, both painted and raw up close today so that I can be capable of answering any questions people might have about the production quality.
In summary, it is still the softer plastic material that we usually see from CMON, and has about 85% the sharpness of resin and 95% the sharpness of metal in my opinion. Fortunately, the models are almost entirely suited to that, with lots of organic shapes and very few sharp edges needed on the models, with the few sharp edges that are there wisely using real hard plastic, so swords and weapons are not going to bend at all and the fixing points are good and stable. Some go as far as having plastic hands and wrist armour where the sharper detail is needed and it blends together pretty well.
There were a few mould lines and join lines that would be a pain to clean up, but certainly do-able. I was assured that I was not looking at the final models as these were just early prototypes and the tools had not been completely polished yet so a lot of the things I pointed out were known to them and in the process of being fixed already.
Overall the models are decent. They will take more cleaning than plastic and have less detail than resin, but well within the realm of tolerance for decent models. Many things have subtle undercuts to allow for easier painting and increased perception of depth which adds a unique feel to them compared to pure plastic or resin/metal which I think will be well received.
Whoa- are you saying they're a PVC / hard plastic hybrid? With the few sharp edges / weapons being done in true injection molded "hard" plastic, and the rest PVC? Or did I misread something... if not, that's a very interesting solution!
That is what they've been advertising on the KS page since day one, yes. And yeah, it's interesting - let's see how an 'interesting' CMoN idea actually works out, though...
I think there's a bit of a holding pattern going on right now while SW and Zombicide are being fulfilled. If I hadn't grabbed an early bird, I'd be on the sidelines waiting for the moment.
I'm taking their production prototypes with a grain of salt. It's one thing to cast prototypes when you have all the time for QC in the world, it's another when they're trying to hit deadline.
I am waiting a bit to see how the wolves come out, and how many will be coming. Also, whether I have a good excuse to drop 50$ on models I won't see for a few years if I really just want the wolves...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ok, read the bit of fluff they posted as a new update, and I am pretty interested... damnit.
Waiting for new models. Its nice they are getting to all single poses for a lot of the starter models, but there's more leader/special types that I'm interested in as opposed to the line troopers.
This is our mid campaign grind, but one of the reasons why we run 30 day campaigns is to get the word out as far and wide as possible. We've got lots of great models coming up, and even variant heads/tentacles/claws/weapons etc for the bigger boys planned. We're sure you'll have lots of comments for us when the current rules go up with updated cards as well, and yes, the "no drum" gameplay video will also go up this week. Spread the word! Backer icons coming up soon.
Again, some of the models look pretty cool. Including some of the ones we haven't seen before. I'm keeping an eye on it for some possible models to paint but it's going to depend on what I feel like getting. The new SM book comes not to long before this ends so funds may be tied up elsewhere.
Alpharius wrote: I'm surprised this one isn't doing better/more/moving faster.
Has the CMON Bubble finally burst?
While C'MoN has a fine idea of how to sell, in this case it may simply be a case of "the dogs won't eat the dogfood", so to speak. While I must admit that I have enjoyed the little fiction bits quite a bit (certainly more then I anticipated), the actual factions suffer from being perhaps overly stylized. Though somewhat familiar, I strain to place where exactly I have seen this aesthetic before. It seems both not-quite-anime and not-quite-euro comic, and translates into a very strange looking series of models.
IMO, contra some earlier statements in this thread, I would say there isn't enough "T&A", in the sense that what female miniatures there are in the campaign thus far tend to fall into the category of "fan-disservice" rather then cheesecake. Unless I've missed it, there really doesn't seem to be any suitably armed and armored female miniatures outside of the KS Exclusive (and, as is so often the case, female vampires).
You've seen their concept artist's work all over Confrontation.
The gameplay video needs to be heavily edited, broken down by game round, more graphics.
Still liking what I see and it's already beaten the last TTG (minis and rules) KS that I can recall (Darklands) in the first few days. Looking forward to seeing any other minis added.
Alpharius wrote: I'm surprised this one isn't doing better/more/moving faster.
Has the CMON Bubble finally burst?
While C'MoN has a fine idea of how to sell, in this case it may simply be a case of "the dogs won't eat the dogfood", so to speak. While I must admit that I have enjoyed the little fiction bits quite a bit (certainly more then I anticipated), the actual factions suffer from being perhaps overly stylized. Though somewhat familiar, I strain to place where exactly I have seen this aesthetic before. It seems both not-quite-anime and not-quite-euro comic, and translates into a very strange looking series of models.
IMO, contra some earlier statements in this thread, I would say there isn't enough "T&A", in the sense that what female miniatures there are in the campaign thus far tend to fall into the category of "fan-disservice" rather then cheesecake. Unless I've missed it, there really doesn't seem to be any suitably armed and armored female miniatures outside of the KS Exclusive (and, as is so often the case, female vampires).
Don't forget there isn't the same level of pledges that made up CMoN's earlier KS'. It doesn't have some of the $1,000+ pledges that made up their earlier one. Surprised no offer for a painted army, but I know Arron Lovejoy who painted a number of figs for this line and did the Zombicide:S1 reward sets has sworn off doing anything like that in the future.
It has so far outperformed Kaosball and Rivet War during their initial days. So I wouldn't say it is doing poorly just yet.
As for T&A, none of the real "sexualized" figures are available yet. The chunky chicks don't quite fit that bill. And wait till the obligatory Super Dungeon/Relic Knight/Kingdom Death figures show up to drum up additional support.
Plus, the Gencon news/propaganda/hype lull has likely suppressed growth as well.
While C'MoN has a fine idea of how to sell, in this case it may simply be a case of "the dogs won't eat the dogfood", so to speak. While I must admit that I have enjoyed the little fiction bits quite a bit (certainly more then I anticipated), the actual factions suffer from being perhaps overly stylized. Though somewhat familiar, I strain to place where exactly I have seen this aesthetic before. It seems both not-quite-anime and not-quite-euro comic, and translates into a very strange looking series of models.
IMO, contra some earlier statements in this thread, I would say there isn't enough "T&A", in the sense that what female miniatures there are in the campaign thus far tend to fall into the category of "fan-disservice" rather then cheesecake. Unless I've missed it, there really doesn't seem to be any suitably armed and armored female miniatures outside of the KS Exclusive (and, as is so often the case, female vampires).
Don't forget there isn't the same level of pledges that made up CMoN's earlier KS'. It doesn't have some of the $1,000+ pledges that made up their earlier one. Surprised no offer for a painted army, but I know Arron Lovejoy who painted a number of figs for this line and did the Zombicide:S1 reward sets has sworn off doing anything like that in the future.
It has so far outperformed Kaosball and Rivet War during their initial days. So I wouldn't say it is doing poorly just yet.
As for T&A, none of the real "sexualized" figures are available yet. The chunky chicks don't quite fit that bill. And wait till the obligatory Super Dungeon/Relic Knight/Kingdom Death figures show up to drum up additional support.
Plus, the Gencon news/propaganda/hype lull has likely suppressed growth as well.
That's because C'MON tried to screw him on that one. The deal was for the initial set to be painted then they dumped 50 some odd figs on him at the first price. He had to fight them to get paid what he was owed.
And their external painting service they used for Relic Knights (Worthy Painting) went bust so they had to give folk their money back,
so they probably thought it just wasn't worth the trouble
(especially as they know the KS will fund fast anyway when they started they were probably no so sure and $1000-$3000 would have seemed like a good way to quickly fund/achive stretch goals)
I agree with Buzzsaw about the fiction updates, I have really been suprised as they far exceeded what I expected. The latest. one has made me rethink about buying the Hadross starter set.
It's really good, and an encouraging level of commitment to the world. They aren't just throwing a rule set and models together to create another million dollar KS.
Empchild wrote: That's because C'MON tried to screw him on that one. The deal was for the initial set to be painted then they dumped 50 some odd figs on him at the first price. He had to fight them to get paid what he was owed.
Plus this
judgedoug wrote: New Wave Mail Order was run by David Doust. From 2000-2004 New Wave would offer things for sale that weren't in stock, overcharge credit cards, never ship product, and constantly lie about it (to the tune of having lied about someone dying three times in a year to delay shipping product). The business had literally hundreds of BBB complaints against them. Eventually Doust was investigated by the Georgia State Attorney, and eventually some customers got some money back. It was incredibly bad during the litigation as Doust would actually misquote or edit people's emails and posts on forums to sound like threats; the Editor of The Miniatures Page had to basically provide original unedited entries during litigation. In the end, hundreds of gamers lost money to New Wave and Doust. While this was going on, Doust funnelled the money into creating CMON. Any mention of New Wave or moneys owed were summarily deleted from CMON forums and for a period links to The Miniatures Page's several threads on New Wave were automatically blocked and users attempting to post about it were banned. CMON was founded on Doust scamming wargamers. Now that it's 8 years after that, many have forgotten or don't know about it, but many still refuse to do any business with CMON because they lost money to New Wave. Many also believe New Wave helped to destroy I-Kore (which became Urban Mammoth) as they were also the distributor for their products, making it nearly impossible for Void to purchases in some areas. Most of this is in the public record and there's overwhelming evidence still available on TMP, warseer, rpg.net, and many other forums. I don't believe Doust has ever apologized or tried to rectify in any way for the hundreds if not thousands of people that were scammed by him. PM me and I can send several links containing bunches of info that I sent to RITides when he asked me.
Makes me not want to deal with anything CMON ever again.
New update gives us big monster add-ons.
I honestly love all of them. Only one we haven't seen before afaik is the steam golem, which is phenomenal. Just the right sort of quirky awesome for me.
RiTides wrote: I'm no Cmon lover, but I do think we should discuss mostly This campaign in this thread!
For clarity, as a CMON product, wouldn't it be worthwhile to know whom you're 'getting into bed with', so to speak? Or is that name big enough that any connections would be utterly tangential at best at this point?
We saw that boardgame KS nearly fail to the tune of six figures because someone involved (a distributor in that case, I believe) walked off with the cash.
Now, yes, granted, obviously CMON's name carries some weight behind it on KS. I'm not insinuating that after several successful ones they're just going to bolt, but similarly to how the community has a thirst to know where Mandelbonder shows up next, this guy sounds like he's deserving of a rep that follows him.
I say this entirely as an outsider who has no vested interest either way, and has never backed a CMON project (simply because there hasn't been one that has caught my eye).
This is brought up in every CMoN thread. I appreciate that those affected want people to be aware of what happened, which has been done here, but discussion isn't particularly useful.
Another quick update with a size comparison is up, if someone not on a phone can link the pictures that would be great.
plastictrees wrote: This is brought up in every CMoN thread. I appreciate that those affected want people to be aware of what happened, which has been done here, but discussion isn't particularly useful.
Another quick update with a size comparison is up, if someone not on a phone can link the pictures that would be great.
BAM!
*edit* and new figures available for additional purchasing. Hidden for size.
Got home from a busy weekend with the family to see the big monsters are coming now.
That is certainly going to get expensive quickly. I hope for the sake of my wallet that we might see some of those big critters added to the starter box (or maybe a BOGOF type deal like they've had with most of the CMON kickstarters).
Fluff was a pain in the ass to read on my phone. Look forward to having it in the rulebook.
Still haven't made up my mind what factions I want. I just may well end up with an Ancient King pledge and get everything. Not a fan of the big head gnomes, but I do like those piggies.
Kids want dragons and octopi, Dad wants Blood Masks.
Still waiting to see those archers/ mages/ ranged units.
They are some nice minis - but what does the guy riding the giant octopus do when he's fighting all the other factions that are land-based? And why is the underwater faction NOT the only faction with an octopus mount?!?!
I think this game is just too much of a jumble for it's own damn good.
They are some nice minis - but what does the guy riding the giant octopus do when he's fighting all the other factions that are land-based? And why is the underwater faction NOT the only faction with an octopus mount?!?!
I think this game is just too much of a jumble for it's own damn good.
Well, they actually do explain why the aquatic stuff is able to function on land. The second fluff story, told from the perspective of one of the Hadross explains that their society is actually heavily influenced by magic, magic which comes from the beings that rule them, the "Deep Ones." The Deep Ones are essentially their gods and have manipulated the people and animals of Hadross to better suit their environments. Likewise, their magic also allows them to function on land. They're not the most mobile, but they do function. The even mention that in the bit of fluff about the giant octopus units. Is it a lame explanation? Sure, but it is at least an attempt to explain how and why a bunch of jellyfish men and their giant octopi are able to function on the land.
And speaking of that fluff they've been posting, I'm actually really liking it. Hell, I think the fluff is itself way more interesting than the game or the miniatures. To be honest, I actually wouldn't mind some novels set in this world.
Several of those big guys are quite nice. Much more interesting than the little ones, but not really worthwhile picking up by themselves with international shipping, etc.
I've put in my pledge... I really love the design of some of the bigger pieces. I doubt I'll play this game... most folks around her are 40k/WM/Pathfinder players
I enjoy the not quite Confrontation vibe. The only model I dislike is the Pelagarth Howl from House Nasier. I'm tempted to go all in with this. I think in my area I'm becoming known as the guy who will do anything for CMON/FFG, even the weird stuff.
I like most of those. I quite like the Dragon and giant daemon. The Great Horn fella and a random pair of wings that fit looks like an excellent Bloodthirster opportunity to.
I think what I like most if that the factions really don't match up with anything else out there.
They could have played it a lot safer, done the usual elves, dwarves, orcs, and other fantasy trope races but they really went left field and came up with something much more distinctive.
I could see a few of these units working their way into Warhammer as "counts as" type units, but for the most part they seem to be marching to the beat of their own drum. Good for them.
I too was impressed with the fluff. Here's to hoping there's even more of it in the rulebook (besides the 5 pieces they'll be posting during the campaign).
Yea. I am going to end up throwing money at this to get a starter or two and the rule book. Bloody hell... my wife is going to be irritated to no end. I am just really digging the fluff, and if there are renders of werewolves that look good, they will just get snapped up.
He was at GenCon from Wed to Sunday and was doing a lot of recovery on Monday.
He drank....a considerable amount.
Anyways, I completely understand the previous discussion regarding this guy (though to be fair, I've only made it thru 2 pages so far) aside from the whole forced interpretation of social commentary on the Union workers.
Got to be hands on with the production models. They look pretty dark nice and appear to be cleaner than some of the PP restics that I've seen recently. I actually haven't had a ton of problems with any of the Mantic or Sedition Wars ones, so I can't make a comparison there.
Honestly, for the amount of models you're getting, I'll probably be in for the $200 with some room for the bigger monsters. I actually like the ruleset, but still think it needs some love to scale correctly from true skirmish to mass battle. The Orders system is the route they're taking, but IMO needs a bit more tweaking to make it run more quickly.
Didn't they say we'd be seeing some updated rules in the near future? I want to say it was supposed to be this week.
I read through the old ones they had available via Facebook (which were deemed to be "ancient") so I'm curious as to how things have changed.
I'm wondering if we might see any mercenary/ ally types as this progresses. Because there aren't enough weird looking figures yet and we obviously need more strange stuff.
Honestly, for the amount of models you're getting, I'll probably be in for the $200 with some room for the bigger monsters. I actually like the ruleset, but still think it needs some love to scale correctly from true skirmish to mass battle. The Orders system is the route they're taking, but IMO needs a bit more tweaking to make it run more quickly.
That some fairly troubling stuff there.
Do you think they will take the necessary time/effort to do what needs to be done to the rules?
Do you think they are in it 'for the long haul' and will be supporting this game for the foreseeable future?
There's been lots of rumblings about how CMON was going to go the 'cash grab' route for Confrontation: Phoenix... I admit, I'm hesitant here, given all parties concerned, including the rules developers...
In all honesty, yes, I think so. From my understanding, they're going to be looking to do some significant playtesting before that May 14th date from folks outside of CMoN.
I think the game plays really well at a skirmish/Warmachine size. My biggest concern is the scaling up simply because at a "mass battle" size there's going to be that issue of multi-wound models and orders, etc.
Story time part 3 - Teknes
Update #13 · Aug 21, 2013 · 2 comments
Continuing our fluff release is part 3 featuring Teknes!
Potential Unchained
Gulraast drummed his tiny fingers on a desk too large for him. He couldn’t tell if the woman was lying, mistaken, or simply confused. Such uncertainty didn’t happen often for him. “And your captain, he is not being seen these last four days?”
Third mate Mai Leng shook her head, annoyed. “Not since dinner at Goritsi Tower. Both him and the first and second mates. Three people. Just missing.”
Gulraast frowned. “Along with my shipment, no? But, and forgive my not speaking common language so well, but this phrase: ‘dinner at Goritsi Tower’… It could have many meanings, yes?”
The sweet woman, barely more than a girl to Gulraast’s eye, looked a little sick, but laughed. “Heh. Yes, but in this case it was actually just a dinner. A thank you dinner. It turned out one of our passengers was Tellorian nobility. We got her here without incident.”
Gulraast sat back in his high-backed chair, nodding. “Ahhh, yes. Always with Goritsi is circles within circles. But now, why would one not be suspecting Goritsi of foul play in this matter? This passenger discovers my shipment, appraises its value, informs her countrymen, and is done, no? Your men go for ‘dinner’, and my shipment goes missing.”
The third mate slammed her fists on the desk. “She wouldn’t do that! And she didn’t find the shipment when she was aboard!”
From behind him, Gulraast’s enormous bodyguard growled, a porcine grunt full of menace. The girl blinked at the huge pig-man and sat back, cowed. Gulraast waved it off. “There, you see? Voy is agreeing with you. And would not do for me to be discounting Voy’s word, no? Voy often speaks truth.” He sat back and stroked his graying mustache. The girl certainly believed what she was saying about the Tellorian passenger. As for the rest though… Gulraast had his ways. “But now is difficulty. Shipment and officers go missing. Shipment is gold. Many chests. Much weight. And this is being Fructus, an easy port to lose gold in, no?”
The third mate sat silent. Her eyes flicked from Gulraast to the hulking Voy and back. “Well, I’ll certainly keep looking. I can’t see the captain abandoning his ship. Even for that amount.”
Gulraast shrugged. “Is unfortunate, but I can. Speaks poorly of my trust in human nature, no? Ah, but perhaps you do not think us addanii fully human? Is common Achrionian prejudice.”
“What? Oh, no, no, I would never—“
Again Gulraast waved it away. “She is polite for sailor, yes, Voy? No, miss, it would be speaking untruth to say our countries agree on many, many matters. But would also be speaking untruth to say we addanii were at heart of magnificent humanum revolution in Felskar. And is this untruth that is propagated by Achrionian nobility. Is right that they fear Felskar’s triumphant example, for what place have ‘nobility’ in good, honest government? My countrymen did not need addanii intellects to see this.”
The third mate shifted in her chair. “Look, I’m a sailor, not a politician.”
Gulraast clasped his hands together. “Ah, and Voy is reminding me am being impolite to lecture. Is true. Friends do not lecture, no? And we can be friends, yes? Come, let us drink. Voy will do honors.”
The pig-man produced an ornate silver bottle and poured off two shots of crystal-clear liquid. He handed a glass to each of them with deft fingers for such a large creature.
“Zavas!” Gulraast toasted, and tossed it back.
The third mate did the same and gasped.
Gulraast grinned. “Is surprise, no? Dreski is greatest gift my people bring to Arikania. Our traditional mountain fatherland sees much sun, but little warmth. Though, as friends, am warning that alcohol does nothing for actual warmth. Temperature at extremities remains constant regardless of consumption. Is illusion alone. Ah, but illusions are often being metaphor for life, no? Which brings us to unpleasant business over missing shipment. And, in absence of captain and superior officers… you are responsible party, no?”
She shot to her feet. “I am a citizen of Achrion! You can’t hold me against my will, nor can you—“
Voy growled again, louder.
She pointed. “Keep that thing on a leash!”
Gulraast grinned to himself. This girl had fire! He raised his hands in conciliation. “Ah, Voy is rebuking me, for my words must sound like threat. Please, no, please! Do be sitting. Is being this common language, you see? We Felskar are always having difficulty, no? When am saying ‘responsible party’ am meaning you are commanding officer now, yes?”
The third mate nodded, mute.
He slid documents across the desk one by one. “Then must be handing you this notice of seizure, this notice of termination for crew, and this reregistration of former independent vessel under new flag of Felskar nationality and House Teknes. All rendered by dutiful and lawful accords of maritime law as undersigned by the five Scion nations and Free Cities.”
Mai Leng looked over the documents, eyes huge. She lingered on the notice of termination.
Gulraast shrugged his apology. “Is unfortunate, no? Your captain, man of authority and trust for your eyes, does betray his people for want of shiny metals. Is again having similarity with life, yes? Always authority corrupts those unsuited for task. And yet, is always those unsuited which seek authority. But again I am lecturing. Forgive this old revolutionary. It was my honor and privilege to play part in glorious people’s uprising. I cannot help but think fondly of those days.”
She held up the second document. “So this means my crew is dismissed? I thought Felskar was about the working man. And your ‘humanum revolution’ was about freedom from over-reaching authority. Yet here you are seizing a ship and turning out her crew ‘for want of your shiny metals’ as you put it. Where will they find work? Fructus is awash with sailors looking for berths!”
Gulraast grinned. “Ha!” He slapped the table. “Ha! She makes point, does she not, Voy? Straight to heart of matter! Am being convinced, myself. But one more document perhaps shows us truth of matter? Suppose am telling you this is due, eh?” He passed Mai Leng her own letter of debt.
Her eyes flared and she threw the parchment to the desk. “And how in the heavens can I pay this back without a job? And how did you get this? And why?”
“Ha ha! Yes! Is truth she speaks, does she not, Voy? Concern for men, concern for self, these things I hear ringing with depth and conviction. A woman rich with ill-gotten treasure would not show same passion, not by half. Am reminded of beloved wife back in Valisdaan, no? She is on Ruling Committee there, and such debates they have… my ears ring to even think on them.”
Mai Leng was still angry. “You haven’t answered my question.”
“But you have answered mine. And either you are being phenomenal charlatan, or you truly know nothing of missing gold and captain.” He drew another letter from his stack of papers and touched his quill to his tongue. “Am pleased to be putting name to commission, warranting you as captain of ship.” He handed the signed warrant across. “You will be noting rate of pay. Is higher than most navies, along with percentage of shipments safely arrived to destinations for captain and officers.”
Mai Leng scanned the document, her surprise plain. “I could pay off my debt in a single voyage!”
“Eh, let us not be so hasty. Not put all cogs in one contraption, no? This debt will remain with myself, and let us look to banish it within three voyages.”
She lowered the letter. “But what of the captain?”
He shrugged. “Who cares? If he is being found with missing gold is one matter. Am thinking unlikely, however. If I find no trace, then there is no trace to find. Am liking new arrangement.”
“That gold could’ve bought two ships like mine.”
Gulraast shrugged again. “In time, perhaps, but a ship on the dock is worth two on stocks, eh? Ha! Gold is wonderful thing but it does not sail so well as wood and canvas, no? Is better yourself and crew accept employment offer. More pay, better terms, and respect for skilled labor. These are the simplest humanum tenets, no?”
She looked back at the offer, re-reading. “I’m… going to need a few more hands. At least two more officers. And maybe an instrument or two, if I can’t find the captain’s sextant and—“
“Bah! Instruments. Are we not Felskar? Is our house not Teknes? Such precise tools we can offer, wonders of technology and science. For you, I write waivers, and port authority sees me for fees, no? As for officers, your profession is yours. I am no judge of sailors, nor is Voy, despite his many talents with dreski.” He laughed again and scribbled two quick notes. “Be handing these to steward downstairs. She will assist.”
Captain Leng looked over the writs, took a breath and nodded. “Okay. You have a ship and a crew, those that are willing. What are your orders?”
“Ha! More and more you are reminding me of third son and fourth daughter. Dutiful, professional, and perfect aides to their mother. She is important woman in her city, and I am humbly important man here on Fructus. Little known, perhaps, but still a man of stature. I make height joke, no? Ha! You smile! Is fun and games when good friends talk! But, for now, is not known when we depart or what destination.”
Mai Leng was indeed smiling, but she persisted. “Well, if you have some hint as to how long the voyage might take, I can lay in the non-perishables at least. It can take a few days to properly stock for even a trip of modest length, to say nothing of stowing the hold properly. That’s easy enough to do at dock, but at sea it takes a bit of luck with the weather.”
Gulraast mulled. “Hm, yes, is good sense you make. And is interesting you mention luck. As a sailor, you are big believer in luck, no? As old revolutionary, so am I. Luck is being factor on which armies rise and fall. On which people fall in love. On which king steals crown. But luck is factor of chance, no? Is like playing cards. Decks can be stacked. That is being my function. Am dealer in luck. Preparation is stacking. Foresight is stacking. Intelligence, eh… spying, to be blunt. This too is stacking, no?
“So, listen when I say, war is not far off for Arikania. You live as long as myself, you gain sense for it. Hadross and Kartoresh stare each other down across Free Cities who themselves fret like nervous children when parents fight. I am no warmonger, but my country will not stand idly to one side if our allies go to war, and Achrion is known to take opposite side in any issue involving Felskar. Achrion and Felskar, eh, our fight is old one, no? And Telloria, well, Telloria sits in darkness and watches, as ever, no? So, let us say prepare for journey as far as Ophion in Hadross. By radius, would take us anywhere in Felskar or Achrion or even to Telloria, should needs arise.”
At the door, Captain Leng paused. “I won’t fight my country. Just so you know.”
“No, no! Of course not! Your ship is fast one, yes? Is built for speed, not fighting. But now, must be saying reluctant farewell. Have many things to be attending. My ambassador…, well, he is not in good way. But he is new to Fructus, and knows not the rules of our fine city’s game.”
Gulraast watched his new employee leave with a broad smile on his face that vanished the moment the door closed. He hopped down from his chair, and headed downstairs to the sub-levels. He and Voy trooped past secret labs where dangerous experiments could go safely awry and hidden armories, some slumbering beneath a decade of dust. He stopped in the barracks for two cylinders of turgid green liquid tipped with needles designed to bite, and a heavy gauntlet that crackled with voltaic power.
He didn’t like the prison. He didn’t like what it was needed for, though he had to admit it proved useful on occasion as both an incentive and a recruitment center.
Ambassador Rotakin and the former ship’s captain were chained in the same cell where they could hurl insults at each other for the debacle they’d wrought.
“You said this was foolproof!” shouted the captain.
Rotakin growled back, “And you should not be moving gold until ordered!”
“How was I supposed to know they’d steal it?”
“Your crew is being your responsibility! I should not be in here. Gulraast oversteps himself and will be first to pay.”
“Good. Get it out, and then we’ll find that gold.”
Rotakin sneered. “Oh no, no, my friend, I am not deserving this treatment. You, on other hand, you are staying here.”
The captain strained at his chains and snarled by way of retort, but both fell silent as they noticed Gulraast standing beyond the bars. “Please, do be continuing. Is not often Voy gets belly laugh.”
The pig-man behind Gulraast simply glared.
Rotakin puffed himself up. He was a tall man, but then all true humans were tall to Gulraast. “Gulraast, you will be releasing me now, or Ruling Committee will be having your head!”
Gulraast ignored the ambassador’s threats like a duck ignores rain. He said to the captain, “Will be pleased to know that third mate has graciously accepted offer of captaincy. Am certain she will be taking good care of crew and ship.”
“Mai Leng?” the captain spat. “That girl can barely find noon! I wouldn’t trust her with a launch let alone a ship!”
“And yet she was being third mate, no? Do not sow doubt in fields already planted, my friend. And crew will not make fuss over change of command, am sure. Am thinking low wages buys low loyalty, no? Whereas Felskar knows how to pay its labor. Ah, but Voy is reminding me even this is lost on some people, is not so, Rotakin?”
“I will not accept judgment from mere Ironward, Gulraast. I am leader of delegation, and am highest ranking member of government on Fructus Island. Is you who are reporting to me, and is you who will be releasing me, and begging for leniency while I am considering transgressions.”
Gulraast unlocked the cell and considered Rotakin for a moment. He turned to the captain. “You see this man here? He is reason Felskar earns bad reputation, no? Consider words. ‘Mere Ironward.’ As if honored rank within humanum revolution is simple thing for dismissal, no? As if ‘ambassador’ is so much more grand, so much more vital. Is true, society function well with hierarchy, but is thin thing, captain, is very thin indeed.”
“Is not so thin as ahhhh—!!” Electricity coursed through Rotakin and ozone burnt the air.
Gulraast released his grip on Rotakin’s leg and held up the crackling gauntlet. “You see, captain? Rotakin is very poor example of humanum principles. Thinks himself in untouchable position. Is why he believes good, honest bribe for Hadross Ambassador is being his to steal, no?” Gulraast shocked the chained ambassador again. “Money is useful thing. Few know this so well as myself. Is what moves armies and razes cities. Let the historians talk battles and tactics all they wish. Is money that wins fights. You have archers? They are needing arrows. You have swordsmen? They are needing swords. And all need food, clothing, and protection from elements. Is supplies wins battles before they are fought. Is gold that is buying supplies.” Another jolt. “So, am wondering what my country’s gold is buying instead, hmm? And is being bought by who?”
Rotakin screamed in pain. “I do not know!”
“Am not asking you, Rotakin, no, your fate is fixed. Am asking captain.”
The captain strained against his chains. His eyes bulged, desperate to flee the sight. “I don’t know! I swear it!”
Gulraast sighed. “Ah, and Voy is reminding me that I trust too easily. You are sounding sincere, no? Is difficult to judge. Trust is difficult matter.” He wiggled his fingers in the gauntlet. Hissing sparks played between them. “You are Kartoreshian, no? You have not seen something like this in your country? Ah, is wonder of technology. I like your Scion Nasier, but he is being too taken with magic and elementals. Is true, they grant significant advantages, particularly in military might. But is needing ‘deals’ and ‘bargains’ with alien powers. Is no trustworthy, yes? Not without proper control.” He shocked the nearly unconscious ambassador again.
“Taking Rotakin here. Trusted by Ruling Committee to come to Fructus and conclude negotiations which are being planned these last seven years. Is why I have been here. Laying groundwork, you see? Solid foundation. And still there is betrayal! A man is only trustworthy so long as his authority does not exceed his conscience. For Rotakin, being ambassador was too much. Now he is criminal. Can rest easy. We trust him with this.” He produced one of the syringes and poked Rotakin’s leg. Rotakin murmured and drooled.
Gulraast motioned. “Voy.”
The pig-man leaned down and pinned Rotakin’s legs. Gulraast climbed on Voy’s back and lifted one of Rotakin’s eyelids. Gaze vacant, eyes dilated. Gulraast grunted and nodded. He held up the syringe for the captain to see. “Another wonder of technology and science. Is bottled spirit here. You are knowing how vampires and Ashmen and Deepmen gain powers, yes? Is alien spirit within human host. Voy is being much the same.” Gulraast jammed the synringe deep in Rotakin’s chest and pushed the plunger. “Rotakin is being lucky. In years before gauntlet, could take days of pain to lower mind’s defenses. Now, zap-zap! And is ready in minutes. With minimal damage to host, no? Is wonderful thing, science.”
Rotakin’s eyes flew open. He struggled and kicked and screamed. Gulraast hopped down and away. Voy shoved off, as Rotakin fought against the chains. The transformation didn’t take long. Flesh ran as molasses and human screams took on animalistic tones. In mere moments, the ambassador was gone, and a pig-man sagged in the chains, grunting and drooling, quite unconscious.
Gulraast turned to the captain who stared, speechless with horror. “There. You see? Can trust Rotakin again. As a good Union man, now he is worth something once more.” He held up the remaining syringe. “Technology is means by which humankind can honestly and safely trust outsiders. All these forces in the cosmos… eh, they are not seeing humans as equals, no? Elemental lords and spirits, the Hadross Deep Ones, even the Celestial gods, all these things are being intruders on man’s world. Learn the world. Learn its ways, and how it works, and how it powers itself, and now you are learning true independence. From magic and gods and other foolish whimsy. These things become resources to be properly exploited and controlled. Is how we empower Union men like Rotakin and Voy here.”
“You can’t do this!” the captain cried. “You can’t! I’m not a Felskar! And I don’t know where the gold is!”
Gulraast nodded. “Ah, am believing you. Yes, am hearing truth. But there is matter of conspiracy to steal people’s gold, no? Is crime to steal even in Kartoresh, yes?”
The captain was desperate. “If anyone can find my thieving officers it’s me. Let me loose, and give me a day. I’ll track them down. I swear it!”
Gulraast felt tired. “Is always the same with criminals. They beg for trust they have thrown aside. They are being very sorry, but only after being caught. Let you free? Of course. But you are not being needed in old job. Ship has new captain. And her I am trusting. And you… well, not so much. Not in that state.” Gulraast raised the gauntlet and grinned.
Five minutes later Voy led two slack-jawed pig-men from the dungeons to the Union barracks for quarters and uniforms. Gulraast returned to his office and mediated the variables until Voy silently returned.
“You are being right, of course, Voy. Now must be conducting negotiations myself. Bah! I despise talks. Am wishing wife was here. Could be using good counsel now, no? Can only hope Hadross Ambassador sees wisdom in not fighting three wars across two fronts. Reason must now win out where gold could have prevailed. And Hadross Ambassador is not steeped in reason, no?”
Voy stood mute.
“Ah, and you are right, of course. Have not seen last of missing shipment. Only am getting feeling that there is more to stolen gold than petty officers. Am making another joke, no? Ha!”
Voy stood mute.
Gulraast sighed. “Ah, my talent for humor is wasted some days. Send for Sachen. There are tasks he can be performing while I am stuck playing ambassador, no? Each man to his talents. This is the humanum way.”
Why are there little poop towers all over the grounds?
the artist must have met my dog...
looks like my yard before chore day...
i don't do Kickstarter, but when these hit retail, i will definitely be painting the Dragon and rider, the Bootyliscious Airbender, and a few other characters, so long as i likethe material they are cast in...
i have been turned off by "restic" and Finecast...
i like proper stiff resin, not the bendy stuff:(...
They're fulfilling their KS projects so I wouldn't worry about that
there have been delays (3 months or so for each of the Sedition War two waves, at least 6 months on Relic Knights) but no worse than many other KS projects
just don't expect to get info about any problems in a timely manner, once they have your cash their communication is poor
(but this is not a deal breaker for me, I'm not backing this one
as there's not enough I'm interested in, but I'd be happy to back more CMON projects)
Gameplay core concepts video
Update #14 · Aug 21, 2013 · 17 comments
In this video we go into detail on troop types, how armies are organized, how combat works, and how leaders vastly increase the effectiveness of individual troops through joint activations.
Please leave any questions you have below and Leif will address them as best as possible.
Also, as we near our $225k stretch goal, here's our next one - now you know how great Specialists are, how about another one?
If we hit this stretch, each Faction Starter gets the additional Specialist shown!
Seriously, this really should be cincydooley or RiTides keeping this thing updated!
there have been delays (3 months or so for each of the Sedition War two waves, at least 6 months on Relic Knights) but no worse than many other KS projects
just don't expect to get info about any problems in a timely manner, once they have your cash their communication is poor
(but this is not a deal breaker for me, I'm not backing this one
as there's not enough I'm interested in, but I'd be happy to back more CMON projects)
Thanks - appreciated - not that worried about a few months delays I'll press on with signing up then!
If you want to though, just PMRiTides any time you want to update the first post and/or title since he's the original poster, loves CMON and Kickstarters and clearly wanted to be in charge on this one!
Looks like the sculpts for the Scourge Hound, Calith Reaver, and Hammer of Heaven are ready in the little stretch goal pic. Surprised they haven't shown a larger picture yet.
Do we think that these are all models with ranged attacks?
The Rather has one based on the gameplay videos, Hammer of Heaven looks like he probably will as well,
The latest gameplay video seemed to be saying that regular infantry wouldn't ever have ranged attacks, which seems odd. I might have misunderstood though.
Story time part 4 - Nasier
Update #15 · Aug 22, 2013 · 1 comment
It's time for more fiction, this time featuring Nasier!
Veil of Truth
Alyana Heska hit the ambassador’s office door like a battering ram. She wasn’t wearing her mask. “Have you seen this?” She threw the dispatch on the startled ambassador’s desk, nearly upsetting the decanter all over his lunch. “Six ships! Gone! in four days! Six!”
The Kartoresh Ambassador to Fructus spoke calmly. His ambassadorial mask sat beside his lunch. “Yes, I have, and there’s one other thing—“
But Alyana’s blood was up. “Right beyond the harbor at Qualat Mon! Six merchantmen, straight to the bottom. And what does Hadross have to say? ‘Saddened by the loss…’ and ‘regrettable happenstance…’ and other meaningless diplomatic drivel! They’re planning a move on Qualat Mon. I’ll bet my blades on it.”
The ambassador said quietly, “Heska, listen—“
She slammed her fist on his desk. “You have got to put more pressure on the Free Cities’ envoy for us to strengthen our garrison. This afternoon! It’s the only way to ensure Qualat Mon stays out of Hadross hands.”
The ambassador sat back heavily. He put his mask on. “And puts it into Kartoresh hands. Our hands.”
“No! More troops will deter Hadross from these blatant attacks. We can increase patrols and scour the bay, or they could let us station a warship or two. That would put a stop to their games. It’ll ensure the security of Qualat Mon’s interests!”
He shrugged. “It was our ships that were sunk. Not Free City tradesmen.”
She threw her hands up. “Yes, of course, but they were full of Free City goods!”
“Which had already been paid for, losing Qualat Mon nothing.”
“Nothing except our good will!”
“Which is exactly why they should let us station yet more enraged Ashmen in their city? And warships in their harbor?”
She grit her teeth. The old man was dodging, but…. “They’d say all these things, wouldn’t they?” She ran her hands over her bald head in frustration, an old habit. “I suppose I can see your point. I hate it, but I see it.”
He released a breath, and removed his mask. “Thank you. Now, I’ve… well, there’s one unpleasant thing—“
But Alyana was muttering again. “They’ve never been so bold. This is a ploy. They risked a lot to pull this off. Six merchantmen. In four days….”
“Five merchantmen. One troop transport.”
Her angry pacing faltered. “What?”
The ambassador handed her a well-thumbed stack of papers. “I’m sorry, Alyana. Your brother was aboard.”
She seized the message, ran through the names. It burned back at her. Arikalin Heska, Ashman, Junior Hakar.
She didn’t feel faint. Her eyes didn’t brim. None of the usual afflictions that she’d heard about and seen when struck with sudden grief. She’d cried when her parents died. But she’d been a girl then. Now, she felt hollow. Then grim. Then angry. Someone had to pay for this. “Hadross…” she hissed.
“Yes. But, that’s what they want: anger. You said it yourself, did you not?”
She wrestled with her rage. Fought it down. Her voice was still hot. “I did. They want us off-balance.”
“They do. You are wise, senior hakar.”
She dropped the sorrowful message on his desk. Her voice had depth. “I doubt it’s any accident my brother was there. How long have you had this?”
“Two days. And the attacks took place three weeks ago. The messenger fairly collapsed from fatigue. Though I understand there was a delay. An effort to send a complete report.”
She nodded. Arikalin dead. Hollowness again, and a flailing sense of impotence. She shoved aside the rising turmoil and turned to duty. She put on her blood-red mask. “Do you require me for this meeting with the envoy?”
“Perhaps.” He sipped his wine. “You’re right, of course. This harassment can’t go on, and I know for a fact the envoy received a similar message just yesterday. She requested this meeting shortly thereafter.”
She had no breath. But still, she said, “Interesting.”
He coughed. “I thought so.” Another sip. “Keep busy, if you can. It helps, believe me.”
“Well, if you need military arguments, I can furnish them by the dozen. That is my function, after all, not just as your second. Control of Qualat Mon would give Hadross the perfect base to bottle up the Scion Gulf and seize uncontested mastery of the Arikan Sea. More than even now.”
The ambassador cleared his throat and coughed. “Yes, but the envoy is from Nyrkem, across the eastern seas. They have more dealings with Hadross than with us. She’ll be less sympathetic to our views.” He coughed again and washed it away with more wine.
“Sympathetic to our views…,” Alyana muttered. “There are six Free Cities. Seven if you count Lochesh. And they send just one woman to represent all their interests. One wonders that she has any power to make any real decisions at all.”
The ambassador coughed again, harder. “She has the power to make our work far more difficult if she chooses. But, I don’t believe she knows much *cough* about our *cough* country…” He was taken with a fit of coughing.
Alyana peered at him. “Are you all right?”
He pulled his hand away from his mouth, covered in blood. He stared at it a moment before he collapsed.
Alyana ripped off her mask, seized the wine, and smelled it. Nothing. “Guards!”
An hour later the surgeon gave her the news in the ambassador’s office. His eyes were grim behind his traditional mask. “His lungs are filling with fluids.”
“He was coughing blood.”
“That was the first symptom created by a lesion in the throat and exacerbated by the toxin. If he’d had more of the wine, we never would have saved him. The lungs’ natural function to vacate phlegm is paralyzed. If he survives the next twelve hours, he may recover, though he’ll need a warm climate for many months.”
Heat rose within her, but now was the time for calm. “Do you require anything?”
“No. He must drain, yet he must not become dehydrated so the body may purge the poison properly. I’ll attend to him personally.”
“Can you identify the poison? Perhaps its origins?”
He shook his head. “It is an ingested paralytic, that’s all I know for now.” He hesitated, then ventured, “And it would be foolish to speculate at this time.”
She narrowed her eyes at him. “Alert me of any change.”
The surgeon bowed, hand on his heart, “Senior hakar,” and left.
She fumed at the closed door. Foolish to speculate…. She didn’t need to speculate. Hadross would certainly profit from the ambassador’s sudden demise where few others would. It seemed obvious. Perhaps too obvious, yes, of course, but poison was a common weapon in their arsenal, and she had met their ambassador, that slimy little squid who had leered at her cleavage and thought her a mere ornament.
And, the timing…. Well, the Hadross could burn if they thought this would delay the meeting with the Free Cities’ envoy. Alyana was no diplomat, but she’d been placed as the ambassador’s second for a reason, and she knew the Kartoresh position and the Nasier heart. They were fair, equitable, and interested primarily in peace. Surely the envoy would agree.
Alyana greeted the envoy in the ambassador’s office, a smallish woman, older but not bent, her hair shot with gray. Her eyes took in the room in a sweep and fell on Alyana.
Instead of her war mask, Alyana wore the Ambassador’s mask of state. It covered only the top half of her face, and was a trifle large.
The envoy advanced and introduced herself with an extended hand. “Jeyna Harig. Envoy to Fructus from the Free Cities.”
“Senior Hakar Alyana Heska, Ashman Legions, acting as ambassador for His Royal Majesty, the Scion King Nasier. I apologize for the ambassador’s indisposition.”
“Yes, I’d heard this thing.”
Alyana paused. “He fell ill less than an hour ago.”
The envoy shrugged. “If I’ve learned any one thing during my time, only news runs faster than wind.”
Alyana’s mouth soured. “Yes, I’m sure. Shall we sit?”
They settled across a low polished table on comfortable velvet divans. Alyana ordered tea, brewed hot. “Although we can let it cool, if you’d prefer.”
“Thank you, no, ma’am, I would prefer it warm. For a southern island, Fructus stays too cool by far, do we agree?”
Alyana smiled at the accent, an unusual combination of lilting cadence and clipped words. She nodded. “I do. We Nasiers prefer warm buildings, food, and drinks.”
“You are called ‘Nasiers’? Not ‘Kartoreshians’?”
“Either, but the second is a bit cumbersome. We usually name our people for our Scion King.”
The envoy nodded and thanked the servant for the tea. “So, are you permitted to negotiate on behalf of this king?”
“Behind this mask, I am. Normally, I am the ambassador’s military advisor, but, in his indisposition and the absence of his junior ambassador, I’m head of this delegation.”
The envoy pursed her lips. “You are very young for this post, I am thinking.”
Alyana didn’t bristle. She’d heard it said more than once. “I am lucky, madam. I came from a very humble beginning, and had the good fortune to distinguish myself more than once for my country. The rank of senior hakar is not one often given before one’s third decade, though that is not far off for me.”
“Modest, too, I see.” She quirked a smile at Alyana.
Alyana matched the smile and inclined her head. “You did ask, madam, and would it have been better if I’d said ‘well, no one else was around to meet you’?”
The envoy smiled and sipped her tea. “That is fair. You are a military woman? I see your skin is gray. It is a lovely tone, if I may be informal.”
Alyana smiled. “Thank you, madam. Yes I’m with the Ashman legions. Are you part of your army, madam?”
She laughed, a sudden clear sound that set the crystal to ringing. “Oh, skies, no! I’m just a simple girl from the delta. Humble beginnings, like yourself. But, as you say, ‘behind that mask’ you are the… what? Face of your nation?”
“To a degree. Masks are important in Nasier culture. Our Scion King carried the tradition on from his father.”
The envoy shifted uncomfortably. “Yes, our cities have not been free so long that we’ve forgotten the war mask of Ancient King Arikan. To be frank with you, we do not seek any return to that time.”
She nodded. “To be equally frank, my country has no desire to conquer anything. We do seek more security for our interests, however.”
“You refer to the problems at Qualat Mon, of course? Yes, we had heard this thing.”
Alyana clenched her jaw, but didn’t speak immediately. Problems? Her brother was dead! A sodden corpse! “The deaths of our sailors and soldiers is more than a simple ‘thing’.”
The envoy set down her tea. “Please, forgive my artless words. No offense was intended.”
“And forgive me if my tone was harsh. I intend no offense either. And yet, offense has been given. Not by the Free Cities, but by Hadross.”
The envoy sat back, calculating. “I was not aware responsibility had been established.”
Alyana pointed to the documents on the desk. “I can make that portion of the report available to you, if you wish. The ships’ bottoms were ripped out. Torn away as if by some great beast. This is well within Hadross’s capabilities and tactics. And, there is other evidence: a brief eyewitness account, suction marks.” She paused. “Chewed bodies. And so on.”
“And what would you be asking for, then?”
Alyana spread her hands. “I can speak most effectively from a military standpoint. It’s the territorial waters for the coastal Free Cities that are most at stake. We already provide patrols and escorts for the continental Cities’ overland trade routes.”
“All prudent nations do.”
Alyana inclined her head. “Quite. And, once out to sea, such attacks are much more difficult to execute. Worming away at the ship bottoms is the work of hours. Possibly days. It’s only at the docks where our ships are most vulnerable. We need day and night patrols of the harbor floor, inspection of all ships, entering and leaving, and, most importantly, an increased garrison size to accommodate these expanded duties. I believe we’ve put this issue to the Cities before.” It felt good to say it. If she could get a concession here, perhaps Arikalin’s death would not be in vain.
The envoy rose, and began to pace, hands clasped behind her. Her long skirts trailed across the polished floor. “And so you give me the option of more armed troops in our borders? And if I do this, then surely Hadross will demand similar privileges.” She had stopped pacing and leaned towards Alyana, brows raised. “And once we have more soldiers walking our streets with their swords and spells, then, and only then, will our Free Cities be safer? Hmm?” She resumed pacing. “I am thinking this would only ensure we had Cities by the end, without troubling with the ‘Free’ portion.”
Heat rose to Alyana’s face, but her ashen skin betrayed only the slightest flush. She wished for her full war mask rather than the ambassadorial visage. “That is simply not so. Our troops are disciplined, professional, and self-assured. Madam Envoy, I vouch for them personally.”
“Any proper leader would do so?”
Alyana was brought short. “Well—Of course.”
“And when they are not in your barracks? Not at your drills? What of when they are off-duty, hm? Or drunk? And Hadrossians come into the bar and words are exchanged? You will vouch for them then? When the combined forces outnumber our Watches by two for every one? Only then are all my peoples safe? Miss, you stretch my credulity.”
Shock shot through Alyana. “To not follow our duty…. Madam Envoy, it is inconceivable that a masked Nasier would not follow their duty.”
“And so you simply remove your masks before a breach! It’s a very thin strap about the head that binds Kartoresh to its duty, I’m thinking.”
Alyana fought against her temper. This seemed like a test. Yes, these ambassadorial types did so enjoy their cleverness, particularly when dealing with ‘mere soldiers.’ She spoke firmly, but kept her strong voice moderate. “Madam, our masks are part of us, in a very real way, especially in the military. You’re aware of our primary religion? We worship the Efrenti.”
“Yes. The Fire Lords have temples in my city too.”
“It is a partnership, in truth. As we serve them, so too do they serve us and our Scion King. We bind such spirits into our masks. They’re more than just totems, they’re part of who we are. In many cases, the mask becomes one with the individual. There is no removing it without retiring from our duty. At least not easily.”
The envoy’s skeptical expression said more than words.
“Perhaps a demonstration. If you would come with me, Madam Envoy?” Alyana issued two quick orders to a servant and led the way to the practice yard where several dozen Nasier troops went through their paces.
Lithe Ashmen performed katas adapted from Achrionian techniques. Bulky Bloodmasks traded blows, further toughening their already iron-like skin. A pair of hulking Arkazans, greatly transformed masses of muscle and horns, wrestled like bulls in the dust.
“Muster!” Alyana shouted.
Inside the count of ten all activity ceased and the troops stood in orderly rows by rank and file. Alyana led the ambassador down the line. “You know of the Ashmen, of course. Certainly the backbone of our legions, but perhaps you have not seen our Bloodmasks in action?”
“Are they all female?”
“Almost. Much as Ashmen tend to be male. I’m a very rare exception.”
“Do all the women in your forces shave their heads?”
Alyana shrugged. “It is the fashion. I do myself, as do most of my sisters here.”
“And are they always… nearly naked?”
Alyana grinned. “Their masks make their hide tougher than armor. And they feel almost nothing.” She stopped by one, a huge woman with arms and legs like tree trunks. “Give me your mask.”
“No, ambassador.”
The envoy pursed her lips. “She calls you by your mask?”
Alyana gestured at the troops. “At the moment, to everyone here, I am the Kartoresh Ambassador. You there, why will you not give me your mask?”
“You do not have that privilege, ambassador.”
“Yet you serve me.”
“Yes, ambassador. But you are not my superior officer.”
Alyana turned back to the envoy. “You see?”
“I see what I would expect. Discipline from your troops.”
Alyana nodded. “That’s exactly the point. If we give orders that Hadross will not be harassed, then Hadross will not be harassed.”
“An easy thing to say on a bright, sunny day with no Hadross at hand. How can I trust this?”
Alyana took a steadying breath. She waved the servant over bearing her war mask. She replaced the ambassadorial mask with her own familiar covering. Power suffused her limbs in that old, familiar way. She took a deep breath. “Kindly attend, Madam Envoy.”
She continued down the line to one of the Arkazan Longhorns, men so fully transformed with power their masks had melded with their flesh. They easily towered head and shoulders over Alyana, who was not a short woman. Their massive horns, like blades themselves, added to their height. “Give me your mask.”
The Longhorn’s voice rumbled like an organ note. “Have I given offense, senior hakar?”
“You have not. Give me your mask.”
“Am I relieved of my duties, senior hakar?”
“You are not. Give me your mask.”
“I regret that I cannot perform my duties without it, senior hakar. I must decline unless I am relieved or killed.”
Alyana said to the envoy, “You see? We are bound to our duties. In some cases, such as the Longhorns here or the Howlers there, it is as literal as figurative. You will find this attitude universal in the legions.”
“As I would in Hadross’s forces too, no doubt.”
Alyana wasn’t getting through. “Perhaps something more direct.” She addressed the Longhorn. “We will duel. You will try to kill me. You may yield, but only if beaten.”
“Yes, senior hakar.”
She heard the envoy sigh as they stepped to opposite sides of the courtyard. Alyana wasn’t sure what to make of that.
When the signal dropped, the Longhorn roared, but did not immediately charge, to Alyana’s surprise. They circled each other for a moment, the Longhorn with his blade and buckler, Alyana with her twin practice swords.
She flicked her blades towards his eyes and darted low. The Longhorn expected the move, but not the speed. She landed both blades on his leg and felt air from the return blow rush past her scalp. The Longhorn growled.
The battle went much as she expected.It was speed and agility versus strength and brutality. She hadn’t quite counted on his cunning though. In a quick scuffle the Longhorn pretended to fumble his blade. Alyana seized the opening and received the buckler’s edge to her chest. She staggered, the air knocked from her. She twisted away and gasped. Fire sliced her arm and shoulder as blood flew.
She ducked under the return swing by instinct alone. She brought both fists up under the Longhorn’s chin. The blow sent him reeling, eyes watering. His eyes cleared to see one blade at his throat with its twin pointed at his heart. “Yield,” he said.
They stepped back, saluted, and Alyana returned to the envoy who stood with fists on her hips, looking annoyed. The envoy gestured angrily at Alyana’s bloody wound. “And what does this prove? That you can fight. I knew this thing. And you trust one another enough not to kill when the chance is given. Can you say the same for Hadross? Or us? Trust is at issue, ma’am. I put it to you thus.”
Frustration welled as Alyana changed back to the ambassador’s white mask. What was she on about? Was it a riddle? Alyana looked for the right words. “I agree that the issue is one of trust. I trust that the Free Cities intend Kartoresh no ill will. I do not believe the same of Hadross. If the Free Cities are unwilling to aid us in securing our citizens and trade, then perhaps it is in our interests to seek friends elsewhere.”
The envoy laughed, though the sound had no joy. “And your country would willingly give up its interests and trade?”
Alyana locked her jaw at her error, but she’d made the threat. She couldn’t back down now. “We can’t get the goods out of your cities, can we? And the military can be put to many uses elsewhere. The Tellorian border, for one. But, I tell you frankly and freely that the Free Cities cannot remain neutral for much longer. A decision is called for. I know it’s beyond your scope, and belongs ultimately to your governing council, but your recommendation will carry the most weight.”
The envoy crossed her arms and leaned back, skeptical. “I think perhaps you overestimate the words of a simple girl from the delta. And what option do you give us beyond ‘Nasier’s road or none at all?’ Hmm? I agree to your terms or your legions abandon my cities and your merchants buy elsewhere?”
Alyana struggled with her temper. This old woman simply had no faith in Alyana’s word! And was she not Nasier’s representative? Didn’t Kartoresh always honor its agreements? “Expel them. Or allow us greater numbers, as I’ve suggested. Or even both. We will not strike the first blow, of that you have my personal guarantee and, with this mask on, that of Scion King Nasier. I put the question to you, madam: whom do you trust more?”
“It is difficult to trust a people who shield themselves so wholly from their duty. It is the person beneath the mask that matters most, for the mask without a face is simply wood or metal or porcelain.”
Alyana thought a moment. Realization dawned. She removed her mask. “You’re right. I bare my true self before you. I am Alyana Heska, and my brother was aboard one of those ships. He and several hundred others are dead because of our desire to maintain the Free Cities’ independence. We could patrol the harbor bottoms ourselves, and you’d never know. We could establish blockades beyond your territorial waters, and you could not stop us. We can position troops in the hinterlands beyond your borders, and you’d have no recourse. We do not do these things, because you are our friends, and we trust you.
“My country is built on principles of self-control and respect. If you’ve seen our history, you know that Scion King Nasier melded a dozen warring nations under his banner. He could not have done this by brute force alone. The divisions ran deep. Still do, sometimes. Yet we are one nation. When we disagree, we say so. We find answers together. Our resolution is rarely one of retribution and blood-for-blood.” She paused, and thought of her brother a moment. She smiled. “I do not like Hadross as a nation. As individuals, I’ve met very few, and they seem fair enough. But I’ve fought their armies most of my life, and now they’ve killed my brother. I will grieve, and can accept it.” She paused and took a deep, shuddering breath. She looked fully at Envoy Harig. “We may cover our faces, but his attackers never revealed themselves. We have proof of their actions. What trust did Hadross show you? They simply saw an opening, a way to wound their old enemies, and they took it. It was cowardly and brutal, and, in this case, my masks all speak as one; as a diplomat, a soldier, and a woman. Will you join us in seeking justice for my troops, my comrades, and my brother?”
Not a sound came from the yard as every ear strained. The envoy didn’t notice, but focused wholly on Alyana’s eyes. The envoy pursed her lips, then smiled. “We too have proof of Hadross’s misdeeds. And their ambassador would lie to my face. Your argument is fair, and compelling. It will be my recommendation to expel Hadross troops from the Free Cities until such time as redress is made.”
A whoop went up from the courtyard, startling the envoy. Alyana held up her hand for silence, and bowed low. “My thanks, madam, for your kind consideration. I look forward to the next session.”
“Let us hope that wisdom is amongst your many talents, Ambassador Alyana Heska.” She bowed, and was shown out.
Alyana let out a breath and, for just a moment, felt very much like a nap. Instead, she affixed her war mask, and turned to the Longhorn. “Excellent feint. Another go? You get a practice blade this time, however.”
The Longhorn grinned.
END
and Update 16:
275k, 300k and 325k stretch goals!
Update #16 · Aug 22, 2013 · 10 comments
Here's a good long peek almost $100k ahead in stretch goals!
Each Faction Starter gets the listed Rank 1 Infantry and a Leader to coordinate them in battle! This is just for Kickstarter backers!
The pictured Specialist will be added to each Faction Starter for all our Kickstarter backers only!
Like the setting? If we hit this stretch we'll tie the stories together into a novella (and maybe even a full length novel) which will greatly expand the world of Arikania!
And for all of you backing, please spread the word with these great Backer Icons, which you can use to replace your Avatar in Kickstarter (Right click and "Save As" the icon you'd like to use, click on "Me" on the top right hand corner of the Kickstarter homepage, choose "Edit Settings" and upload the picture you saved).
The more backers we get, the more we can offer you of Arikania!
Another good story.
At the current pace that accounts for about two weeks of stretch goals, so presumably we'll be seeing some add on updates in that time with remaining new stuff coming up in the last 10 days?
Loving the stories. I like how they give a fair rationale to explain some of the aesthetic complaints. I find myself giving a second chance to sculpts I didn't particularly like. Sure, it's all marketing, but impressive nonetheless.
Okay, so if we hit the $275 goal, exactly how many figures will we be getting in a starter? I know it's well over 30 figures. I think it might be getting up there toward 40 figures. Not bad if you're even going in at the $50 level like I am.
Here is the break down if you have Ancient King and one of each box set at 200k (now) (162 models) and 300k (current posted stretch goals) (199 models).
At 200k
Shael Han (total 28 models)
- 9x The Wrath (this includes the three from the 75k stretch goal)
- 12x Dragon Legionnair
- 3x Big Sister (this include the 200K stretch goal)
- 2x Dragon Legion Keeper
- 1x Hammer of Heaven
- 1x Shield of Taelfon
Nasier (total 37 models)
- 18x Ashmen (this includes the six from the 75k stretch goal)
- 12x Pelegarth
- 3x Ashmen Hakar (this include the 200K stretch goal)
- 2x Pelagarth Howl
- 1x Rathor
- 1x Longhorn
Teknes (total 37 modles)
- 18x Union Workers (this includes the six from the 75k stretch goal)
- 12x Defender Lineman
- 3x Union Boss (this include the 200K stretch goal)
- 2x Defender Lineman Controller
- 1x Galvanic Defender
- 1x Zallak
Goritsi (total 28 models)
- 9x Skorza Skirmisher (this includes the three from the 75k stretch goal)
- 12x Blood Dancer
- 3x Skorza Alpha (this include the 200K stretch goal)
- 2x Dance Master
- 1x Scourge Hound
- 1x Sheildbreaker
Hadross (total models 31)
- 6x Sevridan Gutters
- 18x Deepman Spearmen (this includes the six from the 75k stretch goal)
- 2x Gutter Friar
- 3x Deepman Kaxes (this include the 200K stretch goal)
- 1x Deep Caller
- 1x Calith Reaver
Irene von Goritsi – 1
Dice Bag
Total for Ancient King: 162
Hulksmash wrote: I need to stop looking at this. It's growing on me if only just for painting something different....
I'm with you, i pledged just to get the updates, but the more I see the more I want to keep the pledge. The hadross (or whatever the water people are called) look very interesting to paint, and they are the main reason I'm sticking around. I love rules and rulebooks, but I might just buy the Hadross starter just to paint and not bother with the game itself. It kind of bothers me that these would be hard to use in other games, but for how many minis they are packing into the starter, its getting to be hard to pass up.
I say this now, but am wondering if I will feel the same once the seemingly inevitable delays come... Thats the main thing making me not want to pledge, especially after seeing the SW debacle.
Look at it this way, you'll be getting yourself a nice decently sized project to keep you busy for next summer. You're just planning ahead, that's all.
I think I'm in at Ancient King, and if they do a deal for the monsters, 2x each of them. Really digging the vibe. Wish we could see what the mould lines look on the average model though
Zond wrote: I think I'm in at Ancient King, and if they do a deal for the monsters, 2x each of them. Really digging the vibe. Wish we could see what the mould lines look on the average model though
I know it's apples to potatoes, but the mould lines on the resins I have were pretty non existant. The Plastics are being made from the same masters, so it should be similarish....
Ancient King is getting more and more tempting as we continue to pass each stretch goal.
By the time we're into the 300ks that's just a MASSIVE amount of figures. I doubt I'd even get around to painting everything.
Maybe I should stick to a smaller pledge then... but then I can't make up my mind which faction to go with and figure it's just wiser to get everything.
Zond wrote: I think I'm in at Ancient King, and if they do a deal for the monsters, 2x each of them. Really digging the vibe. Wish we could see what the mould lines look on the average model though
I know it's apples to potatoes, but the mould lines on the resins I have were pretty non existant. The Plastics are being made from the same masters, so it should be similarish....
Well, the plastics are made from the same stuff that PP uses from what I gather, and I know from experience those mould lines can be a bitch. The heavens trembled when I opened my two player starter kit and saw the state of Kreoss' mace. I'll still pledge because I'm a CMoN sucker, but it would be nice to see.
It looks like a lot of weapons will be styrene... the rules are still the same from the Demo rules I linked
I’ll repost them since it’s buried now. From what I can see the rules are the same.
Sample cards
http://www.coolminiornot.com/borg/Samplecards-Nasier-Teknes1.pdf Demo Rules
http://www.coolminiornot.com/thelegion/Wok_Demo_Rules.pdf It’s a good read to have a solid idea of how things will playout. I like the system for quick play it lacks depth but not every skirmish need to be high detailed.
I’m digging Hadross but the Deepman Spear troops worry me because I can't make heads from tails with the face.
I’m in for Nasier for sure as I liked the other Nasier models before the KS. If someone has a large pic of the Hadross spearmen faces that might help…
Wolfen - esp Devourers were my favourite thing in Confrontation and not seen any scene to match - no I have plus sexy vampire girls and giant Octopus mounts - oh yes
See the more figures they add the more I don't want it to be honest as I would never get around to painting them all. I have some of the resins for these and they are great so it's tempting.
cincydooley wrote: In that same regard, I didn't think the mould lines on Sedition Wars or the Mantic Enforcers box I had were that bad. Easy to scrape off.
Cincy - I view you as our resident WoK expert and super-fan so... what is this I keep hearing about the rules being rather simplistic?
Is this just the demo rules that are giving this impression?
Dear Gaming Industry,
There are too many games out now, and their abbreviations are becoming confusing.
PLEASE REMOVE THREE.
thank you,
The Gaming Public.
The rules are simple and set up for look at the card and make your move type play. To me it seems like bump and kill type play… meaning I don’t see great depth in tactics.
Some models with damage threshold 2 and 2 wounds might be tough but if there is only one of them and a large enough unit bumps it with a coordinated attack it’ll fall pretty quickly, I have yet to see any real range attacks or examples of magic but I’m sure it’s there.
Because the cards contain all the rules for the unit on them once the Symbol system is learned you shouldn’t need to open the rule book very often. In one respect it’s nice because the card contain all the rules in another it means every attack type a unit can do it on the card so I don’t see any form of custom hero or alternate load outs or deep worded rules… I’m sure magic will pop up soon and someone has to have range attacks but… I myself have yet to see them.
Right now I’m seeing this as really fast melee game with coordinated attacks being king. The best option is hero slaying. Kill the hero and the unit loses its coordinated attack ability making it hard to kill High Damage threshold models.
cincydooley wrote: In that same regard, I didn't think the mould lines on Sedition Wars or the Mantic Enforcers box I had were that bad. Easy to scrape off.
Cincy - I view you as our resident WoK expert and super-fan so... what is this I keep hearing about the rules being rather simplistic?
Is this just the demo rules that are giving this impression?
Is there depth in this game?
I don't think they're "simplistic" honestly. I mean, it isn't infinity, but I don't think they're "simplistic". The order system has a lot of meat to it, as do the reactions on the damage table. Models have triggers that happen sometimes based on the damage chart rolls. IIRC the pigmen, when a "block" is rolled on the damage chart, they're able to push the attacking model out of melee. I think that's right. But Anyways, there are a lot of interactions with those triggers.
And again, the order system is where a lot of the meat is going to happen. It makes the positioning of your leaders very important and it also makes for some new attack decisions, as leaderless units aren't nearly as effective. There's no "pick up the standard" like in Warmahordes. When your leader model dies the unit effectivrness goes down, so it's worthwhile to try and target them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, fwiw, I'm in for an ancient king that imma split with a buddy. And I'll add I'm whatever larger models are options.
Empchild wrote: See the more figures they add the more I don't want it to be honest as I would never get around to painting them all. I have some of the resins for these and they are great so it's tempting.
Unbeknown to poor Empchild, those figures crawl out at night and whisper into his ear, "We need more friends....."
Put in at $100 for Teknes and Goritsi. The other factions don't interest me as much, so there is no real incentive to go higher. Thought that might change
I do like the reactions to attacks that’s fun and again all off a simple one roll card...
I believe the long horn does the same sort of thing with elemental attacks...
Yeah the idea of a “reverb effect” from your own attacking That’s nice
Preview rules for your weekend reading
Update #18 · Aug 24, 2013 · 13 comments
Here's the preview rules less fluff for your reading - we'll have the graphic free one out a little later for those of you who want to print it on black and white printers.
We've also got the Nasier and Teknes unit cards for your reading pleasure.
Here's the force selection charts so you can see where the miniatures go into forces - looks like the starters will cover Battle size forces once the $300k stretch is hit.
Any army may trade up various troops as follows:
• 2 Rank 1 Leaders for 1 Rank 2 Leader.
• 2 Rank 1 Specialists for 1 Rank 2 Specialist.
• 2 Rank 1 Infantry for 1 Elite infantry
Intro - Perfect for new players and to test small scale tactics.
Army organization
Leader (Must select one as a Commander)
x2 Rank 1 Leaders
Infantry
x12 Rank 1 Infantry
Specialist
x2 Rank 1 Specialist
Skirmish: Skirmish level games are excellent for quick friendly games.
Army organization
Leader (Must select one as a Commander)
x3 Ranks in Leaders
Infantry
x18 Rank 1 Infantry
Specialist
x2 Rank 1 Specialist
Options (Select x2 of the following)
x3 Rank 1 Infantry
x1 Rank 1 Specialist
Battle: This is the most common game size and is recommended for regular play.
Army organization
Leader (One must be selected as Commander)
x5 Ranks in Leaders
Infantry
x24 Rank 1 Infantry
Specialist
x4 Rank 1 Specialist
Options (Select x4 of the following)
x3 Rank 1 Infantry
x1 Rank 1 Specialist
Neither Nasier or Teknes seem to have Elite Infantry that seems to be more for Skorza Skirmishers, Wrath those types although the rules have a few errors in them and I put Union Workers down here as Infantry even though the card says leaders which is clearly a mistake.
Their fluff writer is really good. Game's Workshop should hire him or her STAT. But it has the feeling of many bad Hollywood movies. Lots of talent, no particular love or vision. The writer seems to be struggling to justify the figures, rather than the figures supporting the story. It's also following the kickstarter route of "we'll give you a ton of figures, but lots of them will be identical." If they allowed you to pick and choose figures, I'd go in, but right now the A la carte option seems to only let you get giant monsters and dice bags, neither of which I have much need of.
Since cincydooley continues to be asleep at the wheel:
Story time part 5 - Shael Han
Update #17 · Aug 23, 2013 · 5 comments
While we wait for Leif to do a final check on the current preview rules, here's the final chapter of our stories, this time focusing on the Shael Han.
Game Changer
The Winterhawk worried at his tea. Not obviously, not quite visibly, but anyone that knew his habits would have known. He examined the paintwork on the ceramic cup, almost added too much honey, and finished a full pot by himself inside half an hour.
Everything depended on how seriously Gregorio had taken his request. If the old vampire had a hand in Hadross’s game, he’d send assassins. If he decided the debt was too long passed for collection, he’d ignore the request. Worst case, however, would be if Gregorio sent a catspaw. The Winterhawk wouldn’t put it past him to pay his debt with fool’s gold, giving it the proper appearance, but lacking substance.
He checked the time by the sun, high above the street in a crystal clear sky. Almost time. Motioning to the server for another pot, he kept one eye on the busy market street from his table at the outdoor café. It wasn’t a matter of looking for something specific, but seeing the whole.
And there. Something stood out, only slightly. A stooped old woman with her cane. White hood, shapeless robe, gray hair straggling about her wrinkled face. Another moment of observation confirmed it. He kept his eyes off her, and watched from the periphery as he poured his tea. If she was an assassin, she relied wholly on her disguise to mask her approach. He centered himself, and moved his walking stick, his only weapon, to his right side.
She stopped by the Winterhawk’s table and said, “You are very public, for a spymaster.”
Exactly on time, he thought. And not someone I know. Excellent. He smiled and set down his tea. “And you are very young, for a crone. Please, do sit. How do you take your tea?”
Her eyes took in the crowded café patio, and she settled herself in the chair. Fructus citizens talked and laughed in the bright afternoon sun. “A strange time for a meeting of this sort.”
Winterhawk stroked his snowy beard. “Midnight in a shadowy courtyard is more traditional. But then, it would be past my bedtime. I’m an old man, after all.”
More tea arrived in a painted jar. The Winterhawk brewed and poured, deft motions, well-practiced. He got the honey right this time. “I am Ylae Tei, and I have the honor of being the Winterhawk. Is there something I should call you, or would you prefer to remain anonymous?”
“Anonymous is fine.” She sipped her cup delicately.
He grinned. “You do not fear poison?”
She shrugged. “Killing me here would gain you nothing but a very public corpse to dispose of. But, if my disguise was so easily penetrated, perhaps we should postpone this meeting.”
His eyes crinkled to slits as his grin deepened. “The illusion is nearly perfect. Even beyond a glance, everyone sees the crone. I received only one clue. One part that did not quite fit the whole. But, I’m certain there are more pressing questions in your mind. Please, do ask. Although I was owed a great favor, I fear what I must ask of you buys a debt of equal size.”
She considered him a moment. “We’re being watched, you know.”
“I should think so.”
“Are they all yours?”
He sipped. “Some are. Others may not be. It’s of no consequence.”
Her voice acquired an edge. “You’re very flippant with my life. What if I hadn’t come disguised?”
“You would likely have dropped a note to move the meeting. Or brought your own backup to deal with interlopers. Or the many eyes on this street would have found something more interesting to watch. Yes, I think the last one the most likely. You seem perspicacious, and not apt to take lives for mere blood sport. And, if you had not done any of these things and simply arrived without precaution, our meeting would now be over, and Gregorio would have shown me his hand.” He finished his cup. “None of these things came to pass, and I am very pleased. It seems he took my request seriously, if he sent you.”
“You know who I am?”
He held up a finger. “Ah, I know whom you might be. But it is of little consequence. Time is short, and you certainly have more questions.”
She got to the point. “Why did Gregorio owe you a great favor?”
His smile remained, but he looked down. The memory of a dark night, soaked in rain. Fangs, lightning, and assassin’s blades. He looked back up. “Arrogance is a light that abandons men in their darkest hours.”
She breathed out a sigh. “For an Achrionian proverb, that one actually makes a bit of sense. If you know Gregorio.”
Hef tone confirmed his theory. “You are not one of his usual associates.”
“Which one can say of anyone not desperate for his good graces.”
“And yet, here you are by his command.”
Her eyes hardened.
“Ah,” he raised a finger. “Not his command. So much the better. Then his debt to me is repaid, and I must convince you to take up my burden. This is good.”
“You know so much about me to make that judgment already?”
He sipped his tea. “I have seen you move. You are cautious. I have heard you speak. You are straightforward. I have glimpsed your spirit. You are self-assured. In our business, these are admirable traits.”
“Our business is that of lies and deceit.”
“Ah,” he raised a finger again. “We trade in truth. The lies and deceit are but trappings.”
“For some they’re a way of life.”
He grinned again. “But not for you.”
She looked down at her tea, cooling on the table.
The Winterhawk saw a sadness there. Now she looks like her disguise. Now I would have been fooled.
She looked back up, the sadness gone. “What is it you’re asking?”
“I seek a truth that eludes me. You are aware of the attack on the Kartoresh Ambassador?”
She nodded. “I know he lived.”
“You are well-informed. Then you know that no guilt has yet been assigned.”
“Everyone blames Hadross. It seems most likely. Their ambassador is a disgusting worm.”
Winterhawk grinned. “In a room full of false smiles, the blind man is never deceived. It makes sense, does it not, that two old enemies would poison each other’s wells? It is comforting. Acceptable in its normalcy. It is like saying a merchant sells his wares, a soldier fights his wars, or a thief has stolen a purse. It is the way of things. The Achrionian mind is very much attuned to the proper way of things.”
“I suppose that’s the nature of a caste-based society.”
“You know of my people’s ways!” His eyes twinkled. “We are not so rigid as is widely said. Some, it’s true, cling to the oldest traditions. But a farmer who has no gift for farming may leave his caste, given time and dedication. I did myself, in truth. But the gods make few mistakes in granting us our roles, for when we step beyond those bounds, there is apprehension. Discord. Chaos. Which is what one feels now regarding Kartoresh and Hadross.”
She leaned forward and spoke quieter. Her voice was hard to hear in the crowded café. “So you believe Hadross is not to blame for the poisoning?”
“Oh, I completely believe that.” He leaned back. “There are attacks planned for all the ambassadors.” The shock on her face made him smile even wider. He saw straight through to the forthright young woman. “You are amazed?”
“I—Well, no, I suppose not entirely, but you’ll talk about that here? In the open?”
He gestured around. “And how can we be overheard? The man behind me is enraptured with his young lady and speaks to aggrandize himself. The man behind you cares only for cheating his business partner. The server is harried. Those children are playing with their puppy. And, if seen, what would an observer find? The Achrionian spymaster is taking tea with an old woman. Or, worst case, a woman in disguise. This is no shock. It is the way of things. It is comforting to those who watch us.”
Her mouth was a grim line. “And I’ll have to elude whomever follows me from here.”
“Of course. But you’re talented and intelligent, and you certainly have a plan.”
She grumbled and finished her cup. “Well. We’re off topic. You have proof of these plans against the ambassadors?”
“No, no definitive proof.”
“And it’s this proof you want me to find?”
“Oh, no, not at all.”
She blinked. “The assassins then? You want them located?”
He chuckled. “No, we’ll find nothing there.”
“Well, proof then of their masters?”
He shook his head. “A voice can be heard by one man alone, but written words have an infinite audience. Only a madman puts ink to an assassin’s contract.”
She was agitated. “More proverbs. Well, what then?”
He sipped his tea and set it down. “There has been news from Qualat Mon delivered to our fair city. Yesterday evening, in fact.”
“The sunken Kartoreshian ships?” She shook her head. “No, no, that got here almost a week ago.”
He raised a finger. “Ah. There is something new. Something taken from the harbor to the Hadross estate and then to their tower, under guard. Something that has their ambassador excited. Something that disturbs the way of things. Something that I do not have time to uncover before tomorrow’s sessions. Something that must be known, perhaps to all. This is the truth that eludes me.”
Now she set down her tea and sat back. “You want me to infiltrate Hadross Tower and find some mysterious thing. We don’t know what it is, or what it might look like. All we know is it’s somewhere in there.” She glanced up the mountain towards the Celestial Cathedral. Hadross held the southeastern spire, rising high like an arrow towards heaven.
“It is likely information. But yes, that is your challenge.”
“That’s suicide.”
He picked up his tea. “It is the Achrionian way to face a daily challenge. This is mine: to convince you of the necessity despite the apparent insanity.”
She stood. “We’re done here.”
“Why does the vampire want you dead?”
She sat. “Did he tell you something?”
The Winterhawk sipped his tea. “A man’s position is best told by his feet, not his tongue.”
The woman thought a moment. “You mean the fact that Gregorio sent me says more than anything he might have said.”
The Winterhawk was delighted. “Given time, you will move mountains! In truth, he told me nothing. My note to him was to send me someone who could undertake the most dangerous possible endeavor with at least a slim chance of success. He sent you.”
“Thanks so much.”
He held up a finger. “Ah, but he did not send an underling, a mere spy, a mindless assassin. No, he sentyou. This tells me his mind. Two dragons cannot share the same mountain. If you succeed, his debt is repaid, and he profits. If you fail, he remains the only dragon in his tower.”
She was angry. “All the more reason to refuse.”
Winterhawk pursed his lips. She hadn’t thought Gregorio a true enemy. Interesting. “I would say it is the reason to succeed.”
“Play his game? Do what he wants?”
“What he wants is for you to die. Don’t.”
She scoffed. “You make it sound so simple.”
He shrugged. “As a concept it is.”
“In this case, the practical application is just slightly more complicated.”
He spread his hands. “And yet, if it were truly impossible, I sense you would not still be sitting across from me. Only a fool gives no ground before foolish odds. You are no fool.”
She grumbled a moment. “Why not send your own people? Why ask Gregorio?”
Winterhawk sighed and raised a weary finger. “Ah. You detect the weakness of our position. Good, very good. You know Achrionian military doctrine? No? We follow the tenets of our late Scion Queen Shael Han as handed down from Achrion’s founding days. Flexibility. Adaptability. These are key. For a sapling that bends before the gale still stands where a mighty oak may fall. Alas, it leaves little room for this kind of specialized work.”
She stared at him. “You have no spies?”
He poured more tea and chuckled. “Of course we have spies! Knowledge is the key to understanding the world, and our place in it. There is nothing more important to my people than knowing our place. If not for careful and steady application of intelligence and diplomatic endeavors, Felskar would have invaded us long ago, and Hadross would have drowned Kartoresh beneath the sea. Or at least tried.
“But this mission is more in the nature of espionage than true spycraft. There may be two dozen in all our military that could accomplish what I’ve asked. Alas, they are not here. And, while I could discover this truth in its own time in the usual ways, the methods available with the tools at hand do not count speed as an attribute. Gregorio was a gamble I chose to make. I daresay it has paid well.”
She watched him, hands folded in her lap.
She wavers, he thought. Perhaps I would too, in her place. “Please, have more tea,” he said. “You are not without means in this venture. I do not believe in forlorn hopes.”
She thought a moment, then accepted a new cup. “That doesn’t sound very ‘adaptable’ to me.”
He grinned. “Adaptability in this instance allows me to seek outside assistance. In warfare, the key to victory is adaptation. Attack an enemy’s weakness. Redirect their strength. Do not clash head-on in mighty charges as Felskar prefers.” He sipped his tea and sat back. “I was not always a spymaster, you know. Indeed, I was a wandering warrior for a time, then found my way into the Dragon Legion. This was in the days when Achrion fell behind the other nations in the technology of warfare. When we learned our lesson about clinging too tightly to the old ways. When we thought as the other nations do, and never would have sought assistance beyond our own ranks.”
She smirked. “And I’d always heard the Achrion legions were infallible.”
He laughed. “Celestials above, no. No one ever is. To admit no weakness is a failing of youth, and, in those days, I was extremely young for my age, if that makes sense. No, back then, when we faced Felskar, still frothing over their ‘glorious revolution’, our footmen didn’t even have basic metal armor, let alone the powered armor of today. Steam was very dangerous, and our dragon cavalry was unpredictable. And there were no Children.”
She paused. “Children?”
“Yes.” He raised a finger, “Ah, but you may not have heard of them. You know how Hadrossians are transformed by their Deep gods, and Kartoresh dons masks imbued with elemental power?”
She nodded.
“The Children are much the same: skin like stone, strength of mountains, the grace of willows. Gifts they are, from the War Goddess herself. But for us, the most devout receive this gift, not chosen at random nor forced upon them as a mask.” He stroked his beard. “No, given equal force, the most skilled wins. And while the Children are formidable, and our legions are mechanized, adaptability is our greatest strength. There are no favorite tactics. No preferred stratagems. And looking beyond one’s own camp for aid, especially in a vital matter of intelligence such as this, must seem baffling to them.” He chuckled and grinned. “Very baffling indeed.”
She thought a long minute, and returned to the original subject. “How do you know whatever Hadross discovered has potential to upset these talks? Maybe the ambassador simply got good news from home.”
He held up a finger. “Ah. Good news is shared, bad news is spread, but only secrets remain caged. Besides, why all the security then?”
“What if Gregorio uses the information to his advantage?”
Again to the vampire. He must vex her extremely. “What if the sun rises in the east? Of course he will do this. But I would rather this knowledge be known to more than just Hadross. The drums beat for war, and Hadross marches in-step. I can hardly believe the threat of expulsion from the Free Cities has their ambassador so joyful. No. Some news has arrived. Some proof of something nefarious. I would see it used well, and in a time and place of our choosing, and not one of the Hadross Ambassador’s.”
She wavered. He could see it in her hesitation. The Winterhawk didn’t smile, blink, or twitch a whisker, such was the balance. She asked one final question. “And what will you use this information for?”
He stroked his beard and thought a moment. “You seek to know my heart.” He thought back over the years, and smiled. Regrets. “I’ve told you a little. In my youth I fought myself, unaware as I was of the world and my place in it. In my prime I fought my enemies, believing myself a righteous judge of good and evil. And now, in my twilight….” He sighed. “Well, I am tired. There is always one more battle. There is always one more trial. This is the way of things. The time approaches when I must lay aside my dalko and pass along my burdens. If I can see this one task finished, that of keeping the peace during these talks, I can rest.”
“War might still come.” She spoke guardedly.
“Alas, history, once learned, is often forgotten. But the signs are right for peace. An extended peace.” He finished his tea. “If the ambassadors can be brought to a mere temporary accord, balance will prevail. Tension will drain from the world, and even the Scion Brothers will hesitate to beat the drums in pursuit of their father’s ancient throne. That’s at the heart of it, you know. Hadross and Nasier act as young children fighting over toys.” He shook his head and sighed heavily. “And though they are many centuries my elder, I feel as a parent watching froward younglings. Perhaps wisdom is not a function of age but rather proximity to death. If that is the case, then both may have many centuries left!” He chuckled. “Celestials, forgive me. I speak with the privilege of age. It is not my place to dictate to kings. You have asked after my heart, my wishes in this matter. There you have it.” He sought to pour another cup, but the jug was empty. He frowned and set it down. He simply waited.
She closed her eyes a moment. When she opened them, her expression told him more than her words: “Okay. Tell me more.”
He pulled a bound packet of letters and documents from his silken robe and handed it across. “Here are maps, dossiers, and schedules. Do you require anything from me? Equipment? Backup?”
“What kind of backup?”
“No one who might accompany you, of course, but a distraction could be arranged at some particular time or to a signal.”
She thought a moment. “Can they loiter unseen outside the tower? Better than the three you have watching me now?”
He grinned. “And who are they?”
She tilted her head towards each as she spoke. “The man in the second story window up and to my right. The white-haired young girl at the table by the window. And the tiny dragon curled in that red-leafed shrub over there.”
He laughed. “You should only have seen the dragon and the girl. And the man, if spotted, should have appeared as my observer, not yours.”
“Your man watches me more than you, and hasn’t touched his wine.”
He clucked his tongue and shook his head. “And lo I was saying I believed my work nearly done.”
“I gathered the girl was intended to be obvious. She may have done her job a little too well with the armor and all.”
“She is my student, though her training is nearly complete. She is no spy.”
The woman snorted. “A bodyguard? That little girl?”
He grinned. “She would chafe to hear you say it. I fear patience and youth are not close friends. But do not let her height deceive you. She is a woman grown. And I had no idea whom Gregorio would send. I do have enemies, after all. And me without my armor.”
“Or a weapon.”
He raised a finger. “Ah, but I have my walking stick. I am a tempting target this way. The spymaster beyond Achrion Tower’s walls wearing naught but his robe accompanied by a girl and a yearling dragon.”
“You make yourself a target?”
He shrugged. “It is best to dig a well before thirst sets in.”
“How useful might the dragon be?”
“His name is Rau. He is not stealthy, if you are asking that. He is very intelligent. All the fulung are. When fully grown, he will be ridden into battle, quite possibly by my student.” He clicked his tongue and held his hand low to the ground. The scarlet dragon slunk out of the tree and scurried over, much to the astonishment of patrons and the delight of the nearby children.
WInterhawk smiled as the Rau curled protectively across his shoulders. The tiny dragon’s glittering red eyes stayed locked on Iris. He patted the dragon and clucked soothingly. “I think, however, he may be too small for what you’re wanting.”
“Possibly. I need to look over these documents, but my suspicion is that ingress and egress are the most probable points of failure.”
“I can arrange for a distraction. My student would enjoy the exercise.”
She took a deep breath. “Very well. I have a lot to study and prepare for. I’ll expect the distraction towards dusk.”
“And I shall wait in the Cathedral courtyard, beneath the oak by the pond.”
She stood and leaned on her cane. “I will be very late, if I come at all.”
“I will bring plenty of tea.”
She turned away, paused, and turned back. “It was the cane. That’s how you knew I wasn’t old. I should have leaned on it more.”
He grinned, delighted again. “As I say, miss: you will move mountains in your time.”
“You can call me Irene.”
END
Preview rules for your weekend reading
Update #18 · Aug 23, 2013 · 14 comments
Here's the preview rules less fluff for your reading - we'll have the graphic free one out a little later for those of you who want to print it on black and white printers.
We've also got the Nasier and Teknes unit cards for your reading pleasure.
Oof, so for a standard size game I'd be looking at painting up 33 Nasier models, or 29 if I pick up 4 rank 2 models at some point. That's a fair deal more than the 10-20 I was intending on painting up for each of my two factions.
DaveC wrote: Quick army list check. The Nasier Starter at the $300k stretch goal will allow you make a Battle force with 1 leader spare. 45 models in the force.
Greathorn x1 (Swap for 2 Rank 1 Specialist picks)
The Bloodchild (Swap for 2 Rank 1 Specialist picks)
Aaah, that's how you're supposed to read that 4x options. An option choice gives you 3 infantry or 1 specialist... I was reading it as you simply take 3 infantry and 1 specailist. I was just reading it as 'Pick 4 of these 4 things'. So 33-44 models for a standard sized game, and probably around 18-25 for a small game. I guess they're trying to move in on the GW/40k-sized game territory as well.
Definitely a larger scale game than I was expecting. (I was expecting 50 models to be a large game, not a standard)
Well, they want to make it "scalable" which is IMO one of the toughest things they're endeavoring upon, and is why the order system is so important. It's also why it's necessary that the order system is a well oiled machine
I had my problems as well undestanding the army composicion rules... they need some example armies in the "rulebook" or otherwise people will have mayor problems.
Several local gamers said they were interested in this one over the weekend, I just wish there were more pledge level options for those who want some models but not others!
Edit: OP updated with Kroothawk's excellent summary.
Went in on this with a friend. Honestly the only thing really appealing to me personally is the Hadross, but barring my own preferences I'd had to say that the stretch goals they are putting up so far are really bland.
They already displayed 3 different sculpts for infantry in their faction pictures when the project was started and well before they introduced that in their $100k, $125k and $250k stretch goals, so that just seems like they're burning stretch goals because that much is already done, and they're trying to coax higher pledges for content that was already included (not the only crowdfunded project which has done so but it is extremely obvious in this one). When they start introducing new models I will be less inclined to criticize but this just doesn't sit right with me and I hope others will agree that this tactic isn't exactly the most sincere nor fair usage of the stretch goal feature.
That said, for the minority of the models I do like, they are awesome (especially the kraken rider) and they have done well to present their product in the best possible light with fantastically painted previews or concept art where applicable.
However the points regarding the execution of their stretch goals so far stands.
Why? They had the alt sculpts in resin. In order to do more sculpts in plastic it costs more money. That's pretty simple.
I realize everyone is looking for "free free free" in stretch goals (which they're already doing) but I have to be honest in that I don't understand the problem with more of the alt infantry sculpts being converted to plastic as a stretch.
Ehsteve wrote: Went in on this with a friend. Honestly the only thing really appealing to me personally is the Hadross, but barring my own preferences I'd had to say that the stretch goals they are putting up so far are really bland.
They already displayed 3 different sculpts for infantry in their faction pictures when the project was started and well before they introduced that in their $100k, $125k and $250k stretch goals, so that just seems like they're burning stretch goals because that much is already done, and they're trying to coax higher pledges for content that was already included (not the only crowdfunded project which has done so but it is extremely obvious in this one).
Slightly confused, you know that the unlocked alt sculpts are in addition to the initial 3 sculpts right?
Well think we have settled into the slow slog to the end. None of the stretch goals really will spur additional purchases. So it will likely pull in ~$5K on average a day till the end and a spike in the last couple days.
This is baring any kickstater exclusive purchases to spur additional purchases. Still haven't seen some of the usual special CMoN Kickstarter exclusives yet. Or have yet to see any popular media rip-offs yet that par the course of CMoN.
I'd say higher. They haven't released add ons for the existing units yet, if they do, I'm sure we'll see a spike as people pick up models they like.
Wondering if this will be a more subdued KS as far as furious exclusives etc. maybe a more cautious approach as far as ease of fulfillment etc. for CMON?
I can see how some may see it as such, but it seems like, based on the number of add ons right now, that they "want" it to be smaller. Typically there are lots of things to drive higher $$s in not just CMoN KSs, but all that have gotten very large.
I could be completely wrong about that tho. Maybe DaveC has some insight.
Alpharius wrote: No, I'm pretty sure in your pre-launch WoK KS prediction hype up YOU predicted well north of one million for this one!
Maybe. And if they'd planned it in the spirit of a Zombicide Kickstarter with constant US$ 10,- Not-Chuck-Norris add-ons, maybe they could've. Than again, this time CMON actually have to deliver too. Might be easier to just go all out marketing the last possible dollar out of it if you can simply pass the responsibility for delivery off to another company like Soda Pop or Guillotine Games later.
I only have a passing interest in this as I'm strictly limiting myself to 2 starters for $115. I had a look at the rules at the weekend as I had some free time and wanted to see what sort of force the starters can build.
I suspect they have plenty of add ons to come - some are due later today - each faction has 4 specialist/leaders/characters to add on yet I expect them to be $10 each. I also think they will have a few exclusives to draw people in if they can do a deal with Soda Pop or Adam Poots then that could be a major boost and neither would be to difficult to do and both Candy and Alison with fit here. I won't be happy to see Gabe and Tycho yet again though.
It all depends how far CMoN want to push this themselves it's solely their project so it's their call $500k to $600k is probably where it's heading but with the right add ons and enough free stuff it could go far higher. If you make a KS to good a deal to pass up people will back regardless of their feelings about the developer or the game. I backed Myth on the second last day with no knowledge of what I was really getting as it was just to good a deal to pass up glad I back now as we'll although I passed on Bones as without a game attached I'd probably never use most of it.
People are weary of CMoN KS right now I think the only guaranteed million plus game they have right now is Zombicide.
This KS is one of the more obvious pre-order ones, as there is little, if any, need to pledge beyond the starters as we would not help fund any new miniatures (at this point).
It feels like they want to produce a solid war-game that can be expanded on, which is why they are putting in more fluff so people get a sense of what is happening within the world, but I do feel they are missing that spectacular mini/feature which will draw the crowds in. I'm in for the Hadross and Teknes as painting opportunities, but I haven't felt the need to tout it to my gaming group yet because I'm not seeing something that will really draw them in, certainly not on a pre-order.
I think I'm getting closer to actually backing this. The more I look at some of the figures the more interested I am. I'm likely to wind up on the two starter train and one of them will the Shael Han just cause they have the most figures out the door that I like. The other will be either Teknes or Goritsi.
I might also pick up the big Nasir fella but that would be to add some wings to him to make him a sweet Counts-as Bloodthirster and wouldn't have anything to do with the KS
Also as a sidenote does anyone know if they come with those decorative bases or not? Some of the images on the starters show them, some don't, and some work-ups show them and some don't. I'm curious as it greatly enhance their appeal to me.
250k away! Bases and a quick Faction Starter recap
Update #21 · Aug 27, 2013 · comment
We've added base inserts as an option. Basically $20, get base inserts for your entire Faction Starter, including stretch goals. These will be in the themes shown for each Faction - or mix and match, they're only $0.50 each, and missing from this graphic, $1 each for the 80mm base inserts if you'd like to do the monsters in the same theme.
Here's what you get in each Faction Starter now, with more to come!
The newest update is the first where i'm tempted to really spend money. Those Goritzi base-inserts would be PERFECT for my Menoth - Warmachine army. How is that even possible, that 50 bases like that would run $20? Wyrd charges $10 for a few bits that would make up 3-5 interest custom bases.
So do the boxset already come with the base styles they are modeled on or not? I'm confused.
The $20 for the faction starters worth of inserts for specific factions is pretty sweet though even if the original boxes do come with the base inserts.
Glad to see the mix and match added for the current models. I think that will get quite a few more people into this.
Though I would like to see Ancient Kings shifted to a pick your starter sets instead of all 5 but it's still pretty cool.
interesting comment below looks like the special characters may be free and not paid for after all happy days.
Creator CoolMiniOrNot about 1 hour ago
We're updating the graphics now, but we're going to be giving you characters, more alt sculpts for leaders etc shortly
Creator CoolMiniOrNot 4 minutes ago
The starter boxes have everything you need to play, really if you want larger games the only thing to add will be the 3 unique characters per faction, which we will be releasing soon, and hopefully giving to you.
I think at Ancient King level they are going to let you choose your factions. Or at least you're giong to get to choose your 5th faction. I distinctly recall reading this.
Bit of extra news of the base inserts they will be plastic and not the resin offered on the CMoN site that explains how they can do them so much cheaper then.
What will the inserts be made from? Plastic? Resin? Metal? Dreams?
Creator CoolMiniOrNot less than a minute ago
Plastic
Creator CoolMiniOrNot 3 minutes ago
We're doing sums but are tentatively leaning towards Faction Starters from Ancient King may be swapped out for $35 in credit, Faction Starters from King may be swapped out for $40 in credit. Adding an additional Faction Starter is $50. Add ons do not increase shipping costs except Faction Starters due to their volume and stretch goal models, basically $15 for 1 extra.
It seems they'll be based on but not identical to the current base inserts
Creator CoolMiniOrNot about 4 hours ago
We'll do some repositioning and resizing of the gravestones so they'll be more to the edges and not so high - these are just examples of the theme.
Hmmm gold cards are interesting if your into that sort of thing another easy one to pass up. Looks like if they add the characters for free I should get everything I'd want here for $115 although I still think there might be 1 or 2 surprises later that will have a cost.
Let's close out the day with a few more stretch goals...
Get a free Rank 2 Character Specialist of the same Faction if you get the Rank 2 Character Leader set!
We'll open another tool here to either get variant parts/poses or sculpts for the pictured Leaders into every Faction Starter or Infantry Box set so you won't have two exactly the same! Shaded areas are suggestions only, final result may vary based on what parts we can do.
The same as the $375k stretch, this time with another tool for another set of leaders!
If you're wondering how to get the Rank 2 Character Leaders, look no further - they come in sets of 2 (one each) for each Faction.
From the comments;
CoolMiniOrNot 37 minutes ago
The Rank 2 characters are, by Faction
Gortisi - Korrad and Herald of Blood - $15
Nasier - Elsis Tagil & Alayna Heska - $15
Hadross - Oooroth of Sysor Deep & The Bannerman - $15
Shael Han - The Warchild & The Winterhawk - $15
Teknes - The Ironward & Raeth Sevisk - $15
And now a fairly long slog to 400k. Should get there in another 10 days or so....hopefully.
I like quite a few of the character models now being offered. Currently to pick up everything would run $475 (all base and model add-ons) which isn't bad for 5 "armies" assuming this hits 400k (which it should).
plastictrees wrote: Please tell us more about your issues with CMoN Kickstarters, but only using snide remarks and krumping.
So you'd rather ask in the forums than ask directly while they're actually in a communicative mode?
And yeah, I'll be snide and snarky in CMON and other KS threads where the communication and/or service is gakky or there are extended delays. You'll probably have to deal with that.
I'm usually very dense when it comes to these kickstarter things so can someone answer that if I back at Command level and pick Hadross do I get:
2 x Gutter Friar
Deep Caller
3 x Deepman Kaxos (2 in starter plus extra stretch)
2 x Calith Reaver (1 from starter and the stretch)
18 x Deepman Spearmen (12 from starter and 6 from stretch)
6 x Servidan Gutter
The base inserts and the free rank 2 specialist stretch are looking good and might get an extra $50 out of me (2 character bundles and a bunch of base inserts.) I'll just have to give people KoW miniatures as christmas presents for the next few years to get rid of all the extra infantry you get.
So... i'm a bit confused by the last block of stretch-goals... can someone sum up?
So they've added the ability to buy a character model for each faction (these, in play, are apparently limited to one per army). And stretch goals will see an additional specialist added for free to every purchase of said character?
Their verbage about leaders, elite, character, etc... models have left me slightly confused.
At this point, what would one of everything for two factions cost? IE bases, the giant model, the "character" model....? That is currently "everything" right?
For any two factions that don't include the Tek-whatevers the total cost for everything would be $210 I belive. King + 2 Large Monsters ($40) + 2 Base Sets ($40) + 2 Character Sets ($30).
$5 less if one of yours is the Tek guys.
You can also get 3 full factions for $295 assuming they follow thru with the $35 credit per faction you don't take at Ancient King. Which is kinda cool. Or two full factions and an extra starter worth of models for some faction or another (say you like a decent number of models) for $240.
Currently it's basically $105 per full faction (unless you go Ancient King then it's $94). That racks you up, assuming all current stretch goals are hit, 41 Models for the Hadross, Shal, and Fishmen and 49 models for the Nasir and Tek-dudes. All with custom bases.
Lansirill wrote: The base inserts and the free rank 2 specialist stretch are looking good and might get an extra $50 out of me (2 character bundles and a bunch of base inserts.) I'll just have to give people KoW miniatures as christmas presents for the next few years to get rid of all the extra infantry you get.
I am not to worried about excess items, CMon have mentioned in their Comments section they are looking into 'cashing in' unwanted factions from your pledge for credit
Ancient King- $35 per cash in.
King - $40 per cash in
I am in for Ancient King but I cannot stand the Teknes, so I will trade them in for the dragon ($20) and the Warchild and the Winterhawk ($15, plus a free Airbender girl if this reaches $350'000).
I think CMON made a mistake releasing all the fluff stories within a few days of each other. The fluff got me pretty excited about the project, now interest is starting to fade again.
I was very much looking for to this KS, but it's just leaving me kind of empty right now. Maybe KS fatigue is finally setting in.
I'm in at $200 currently, and could MAYBE justify three full factions. I do that with every game the wife and I play, as I feel like it lets us each have one, plus a "swap" for when the gaming feels a little stale.
Problem is... I'm liking the aesthetics and value here... but feel like the game isn't doing anything for me. We're so happy with Warmachine right now in terms of balancing depth/substance, without being unwieldy, rules-wise. This one just seems soooo light.
plastictrees wrote: That's awesome. Assuming the detail is even close to resin it's a huge savings.
Wondering if the graveyard bases have the crucifixes and lecterns as seperate pieces?
They all appear to be "Groundweks" Dark Ages bases. Which are all plastic with good detail. The crosses/candles etc are all separate bits. Its an incredibly good deal, 40- 50mm bases for 50 cents each, 80mm for $1. worth pledging just for that. I so wish they had the "infestation" theme though, its what my Legion of Everblight is on.
Man, how much do you guys pay for bases? I guess that to me, that doesn't sound like a very good deal... but I usually add detail to my own bases (for my marines, I cut up various textured pieces of plasticard, and painted it green underneath, to look like plates over acid / a sewer / etc) rather than use scenic resin (plastic?) bases.
How much do "standard priced" scenic bases go for?
RiTides wrote: Man, how much do you guys pay for bases? I guess that to me, that doesn't sound like a very good deal... but I usually add detail to my own bases (for my marines, I cut up various textured pieces of plasticard, and painted it green underneath, to look like plates over acid / a sewer / etc) rather than use scenic resin (plastic?) bases.
How much do "standard priced" scenic bases go for?
At least $1 each, so double what you are paying (or more if you're buying the starter set base pack).
As I have less and less time for anything hobby related at all pre-cast bases become more and more appealing.
RiTides wrote: Man, how much do you guys pay for bases? I guess that to me, that doesn't sound like a very good deal... but I usually add detail to my own bases (for my marines, I cut up various textured pieces of plasticard, and painted it green underneath, to look like plates over acid / a sewer / etc) rather than use scenic resin (plastic?) bases.
How much do "standard priced" scenic bases go for?
About a buck for 25/30mm inserts, $2-$3 for 40-50mm ones on average. That base I posted is about $4.50 online. The 30mm inserts are 3 for $6. They used to be cheaper, but the price shot up a ton since last I checked. That or I somehow used to get mine half off.
I dont even see recast bases as cheap as they are offering these (granted, its 8+ months for delivery). Your method works great and inexpensive for some simpler things, but less so for others. Like that infested rock I posted would just take too much time for me to sculpt, if I could even get it to look that nice. For me, time is a premium, so I just have less time to make elaborate bases. Also, I live in Houston, so the heat humidity takes a toll on glued sand, which flakes off.
A closer look at - Shael Han characters!
Update #25 · Aug 29, 2013 · comment
We're continuing our exploration of Arikania with some of the characters you can get!
The Warchild
Tae Lin was one of the very first Children transformed by the Celestial war goddess. Never particularly devout, it was in a minor skirmish along the Free Cities border near Tymour that he lost his left arm to a CAGE. As he lay bleeding and dying he asked the war goddess for one thing: victory for his legion, that his death not be in vain. His body lit with reddish-white flame (as happens with all Children though none knew it at the time) and he rose transformed to carry the day. On the battlefield, Tae Lin is relentless. Once joined in melee, his savage style prevents any escape, and the greater the odds against him, the better he performs.
The Winterhawk
The Winterhawk would scoff at being called a paragon of Achrionian leadership, but he embodies those ideals perfectly: wisdom of the heavens, fluidity of the winds, and strength of the mountain. These are more than just metaphors as the Winterhawk took immediately to the Dragon Legion’s innovative steam armor. He adapts his strategies to maximize his strengths to exploit an enemy’s weakness. And, even under the most determined direct assaults, he demonstrates an unshakable calm. The Winterhawk currently serves Achrion as their delegation’s spymaster on Fructus Isle. His hatchling dragon companion, Rau, is never far from his side and serves as another set of eyes. Useful for such a dangerous assignment.
Deathbloom
Kae Hwoun’s time as a student is very nearly at an end. Her entire life has been devoted to mastering the Crimson Blossom style, and she is eager to test herself against Achrion’s many foes. She has spent the last year on Fructus Isle under the Winterhawk’s instruction. It was here that she earned her title, the Deathbloom, and the thugs and pirates of the lower city give her a wide berth as she passes by. The Deathbloom can make a weapon of nearly any object, but nothing matches her customized dalko for sheer lethal force. On the battlefield few can match her speed or agility, and on the rare occasion when she finds herself outnumbered or overmatched, a blinding flash and a whirling leap sees her well clear.
