Lucarikx wrote: Y'know, on the TT the Death Mask doesn't care if you have Fearless or not.
Also, weapon skill doesn't depend on maneuverability as much as does on the martial prowess of the character - meaning a nimble eldar civilian won't have a higher weapon skill than say a Dreadnought.
Unless you have it in front of you, a SS doesn't do a thing if you have a melta aimed at your face.
The Spear relies on jabbing actions to be dangerous. You can swing an Axe around and land hits something in swifter motions.
Pff... If you get hit repeatedly in soft mesh and get your leg amputated you won't be fighting much longer.
Do we have any fluff evidence of Moloc killing ANYONE important in single combat? He knows how to insult people, and thats really about it......
Lucarikx
yes on the TT is guess what irrelevant and yet again you have given NO proof whatsoever that says terminator armor prevents you from thrusting a spear which i think is the most desperate defense you guys have with NOTHING to back it up, and no sorry your are wrong bub the WS is his effectiveness in close combat its not the prowess of anything and effectiveness relies on what your ability to use your weapon which goes hand in hand with what??? maneuverability wow! soo i repeat since you have no logical proof to substantiate any of your desperate claims to victory aside from well......nothing and im not going to sift through my badab books but no most people he fights run in fear even a necron lord.
Dude, read my post again. I said maneuverability was a part of it, but the skill is whats most important. Also, I never said TDA prevents you from using a spear..... I just said theres only 1 real way a using a spear in combat.
Go read about your weapons a bit more, there's a good reason why spears are less efficient than axes.
Go read Moloc's Lexicanum article, he got his a$$ kicked my Maktlan Kutlakh, the Necron Lord of the Maynark Dynasty, who promptly vented Moloc into space after nearly killing him.
If he killed some nameless Necron Lord, good for him. If you aren't familiar with the Necron hierarchy, Necron lords are like advisers to the Overlords, who command the Dynasties.
namiel wrote: So I am insanly bored here at work. I need a list of all chapter masters and I will load them into a bracket. All I need are names of characters who actually have rules so that I can roll off the fights.
look on the poll my friend those are about 90% of them have them duke it out in idunno alphabetical order?
I need one more to make it an even bracket. I will organize them randomly
I have no idea why I'm reading this, it's gone full of the rails... But a couple things.
1) It doesn't matter if "in real life" you can't use a spear effectively in close combat. Obviously Moloc can, his fluff is built around him being able to fight with it. 40k isn't realistic, lol
2) Terminator Armor is more cumbersome than Power Armor, that's pretty clear in the fluff. A high WS doesn't have anything to do with how fast someone is. But being slower than someone doesn't mean you will lose to them. Cain Velasquez is a lot slower than Frankie Edgar, he would still turn him into paste in a fight. A Great Unclean One is about as slow as it gets, but at WS6 he's still a much better fighter than a much quicker Eldar Guardian.
3) Marines fight with Jump Packs all the time, they don't constantly explode. That's a stupid argument. And don't just go citing JP8, how often do vehicles loaded up with JP8 actually "explode" from battle damage? The answer may as well be never. Fuel Lines catch on fire, but it's not the fuel cells that explode; it's ammo storage (and even that is incredibly rare, I've seen it a handful of times in multiple combat deployments)
I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer
If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.
I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.
Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.
Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.
anonymou5 wrote: I have no idea why I'm reading this, it's gone full of the rails... But a couple things.
1) It doesn't matter if "in real life" you can't use a spear effectively in close combat. Obviously Moloc can, his fluff is built around him being able to fight with it. 40k isn't realistic, lol
2) Terminator Armor is more cumbersome than Power Armor, that's pretty clear in the fluff. A high WS doesn't have anything to do with how fast someone is. But being slower than someone doesn't mean you will lose to them. Cain Velasquez is a lot slower than Frankie Edgar, he would still turn him into paste in a fight. A Great Unclean One is about as slow as it gets, but at WS6 he's still a much better fighter than a much quicker Eldar Guardian.
3) Marines fight with Jump Packs all the time, they don't constantly explode. That's a stupid argument. And don't just go citing JP8, how often do vehicles loaded up with JP8 actually "explode" from battle damage? The answer may as well be never. Fuel Lines catch on fire, but it's not the fuel cells that explode; it's ammo storage (and even that is incredibly rare, I've seen it a handful of times in multiple combat deployments)
I know the exloding thing was for kicks ive been playing to much Ultramarines online lol
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lobukia wrote: I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer
If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.
I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.
Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.
Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.
Lobukia wrote: I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer
If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.
I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.
Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.
Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.
mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2
Lobukia wrote: I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer
If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.
I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.
Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.
Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.
mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2
LMAO
Automatically Appended Next Post: soo Name buddy whos in the first brackets?
Lucarikx wrote: Y'know, on the TT the Death Mask doesn't care if you have Fearless or not.
Also, weapon skill doesn't depend on maneuverability as much as does on the martial prowess of the character - meaning a nimble eldar civilian won't have a higher weapon skill than say a Dreadnought.
Unless you have it in front of you, a SS doesn't do a thing if you have a melta aimed at your face.
The Spear relies on jabbing actions to be dangerous. You can swing an Axe around and land hits something in swifter motions.
Pff... If you get hit repeatedly in soft mesh and get your leg amputated you won't be fighting much longer.
Do we have any fluff evidence of Moloc killing ANYONE important in single combat? He knows how to insult people, and thats really about it......
Lucarikx
yes on the TT is guess what irrelevant and yet again you have given NO proof whatsoever that says terminator armor prevents you from thrusting a spear which i think is the most desperate defense you guys have with NOTHING to back it up, and no sorry your are wrong bub the WS is his effectiveness in close combat its not the prowess of anything and effectiveness relies on what your ability to use your weapon which goes hand in hand with what??? maneuverability wow! soo i repeat since you have no logical proof to substantiate any of your desperate claims to victory aside from well......nothing and im not going to sift through my badab books but no most people he fights run in fear even a necron lord.
Dude, read my post again. I said maneuverability was a part of it, but the skill is whats most important. Also, I never said TDA prevents you from using a spear..... I just said theres only 1 real way a using a spear in combat.
Go read about your weapons a bit more, there's a good reason why spears are less efficient than axes.
Go read Moloc's Lexicanum article, he got his a$$ kicked my Maktlan Kutlakh, the Necron Lord of the Maynark Dynasty, who promptly vented Moloc into space after nearly killing him.
If he killed some nameless Necron Lord, good for him. If you aren't familiar with the Necron hierarchy, Necron lords are like advisers to the Overlords, who command the Dynasties.
Lucarikx
instead of reading lexicanum read Imperial armour volume 12 in which his termies die his contempter buddy dies and muktlan gets speared and on his retreat vents moloc, moloc does not get a scratch from muktlan
Lucarikx wrote: Wow, first time I've seen anyone disregard Mathhammer.
Remember, Mathhammer does average results, so you can expect what happens when you roll the dice.
Still can't believe how people disregard MathHammer as "crap".
Lucarikx
Also, whats the point of doing brackets, Bigboss, if you don't count TT?
Sorry i took a break, i see the troll is still well fed. As for brackets, if we are calling it on fluff again, no point. Plus, 3 wouldnt be an accurate number. If i flip a coin 3 times and get all heads that means little. Now i flip a coin 1,000 times and get all heads i more than likely have a double-headed coin.
Lucarikx wrote: Y'know, on the TT the Death Mask doesn't care if you have Fearless or not.
Also, weapon skill doesn't depend on maneuverability as much as does on the martial prowess of the character - meaning a nimble eldar civilian won't have a higher weapon skill than say a Dreadnought.
Unless you have it in front of you, a SS doesn't do a thing if you have a melta aimed at your face.
The Spear relies on jabbing actions to be dangerous. You can swing an Axe around and land hits something in swifter motions.
Pff... If you get hit repeatedly in soft mesh and get your leg amputated you won't be fighting much longer.
Do we have any fluff evidence of Moloc killing ANYONE important in single combat? He knows how to insult people, and thats really about it......
Lucarikx
yes on the TT is guess what irrelevant and yet again you have given NO proof whatsoever that says terminator armor prevents you from thrusting a spear which i think is the most desperate defense you guys have with NOTHING to back it up, and no sorry your are wrong bub the WS is his effectiveness in close combat its not the prowess of anything and effectiveness relies on what your ability to use your weapon which goes hand in hand with what??? maneuverability wow! soo i repeat since you have no logical proof to substantiate any of your desperate claims to victory aside from well......nothing and im not going to sift through my badab books but no most people he fights run in fear even a necron lord.
Dude, read my post again. I said maneuverability was a part of it, but the skill is whats most important. Also, I never said TDA prevents you from using a spear..... I just said theres only 1 real way a using a spear in combat.
Go read about your weapons a bit more, there's a good reason why spears are less efficient than axes.
Go read Moloc's Lexicanum article, he got his a$$ kicked my Maktlan Kutlakh, the Necron Lord of the Maynark Dynasty, who promptly vented Moloc into space after nearly killing him.
If he killed some nameless Necron Lord, good for him. If you aren't familiar with the Necron hierarchy, Necron lords are like advisers to the Overlords, who command the Dynasties.
Lucarikx
instead of reading lexicanum read Imperial armour volume 12 in which his termies die his contempter buddy dies and muktlan gets speared and on his retreat vents moloc, moloc does not get a scratch from muktlan
So moloc not only DIDNT kill his enemy but let him get away AND was fool enough to get vented while fully functional? hows this guy still a CM?
Lucarikx wrote: Wow, first time I've seen anyone disregard Mathhammer.
Remember, Mathhammer does average results, so you can expect what happens when you roll the dice.
Still can't believe how people disregard MathHammer as "crap".
Lucarikx
Also, whats the point of doing brackets, Bigboss, if you don't count TT?
Sorry i took a break, i see the troll is still well fed. As for brackets, if we are calling it on fluff again, no point. Plus, 3 wouldnt be an accurate number. If i flip a coin 3 times and get all heads that means little. Now i flip a coin 1,000 times and get all heads i more than likely have a double-headed coin.
Lucarikx wrote: Y'know, on the TT the Death Mask doesn't care if you have Fearless or not.
Also, weapon skill doesn't depend on maneuverability as much as does on the martial prowess of the character - meaning a nimble eldar civilian won't have a higher weapon skill than say a Dreadnought.
Unless you have it in front of you, a SS doesn't do a thing if you have a melta aimed at your face.
The Spear relies on jabbing actions to be dangerous. You can swing an Axe around and land hits something in swifter motions.
Pff... If you get hit repeatedly in soft mesh and get your leg amputated you won't be fighting much longer.
Do we have any fluff evidence of Moloc killing ANYONE important in single combat? He knows how to insult people, and thats really about it......
Lucarikx
yes on the TT is guess what irrelevant and yet again you have given NO proof whatsoever that says terminator armor prevents you from thrusting a spear which i think is the most desperate defense you guys have with NOTHING to back it up, and no sorry your are wrong bub the WS is his effectiveness in close combat its not the prowess of anything and effectiveness relies on what your ability to use your weapon which goes hand in hand with what??? maneuverability wow! soo i repeat since you have no logical proof to substantiate any of your desperate claims to victory aside from well......nothing and im not going to sift through my badab books but no most people he fights run in fear even a necron lord.
Dude, read my post again. I said maneuverability was a part of it, but the skill is whats most important. Also, I never said TDA prevents you from using a spear..... I just said theres only 1 real way a using a spear in combat.
Go read about your weapons a bit more, there's a good reason why spears are less efficient than axes.
Go read Moloc's Lexicanum article, he got his a$$ kicked my Maktlan Kutlakh, the Necron Lord of the Maynark Dynasty, who promptly vented Moloc into space after nearly killing him.
If he killed some nameless Necron Lord, good for him. If you aren't familiar with the Necron hierarchy, Necron lords are like advisers to the Overlords, who command the Dynasties.
Lucarikx
instead of reading lexicanum read Imperial armour volume 12 in which his termies die his contempter buddy dies and muktlan gets speared and on his retreat vents moloc, moloc does not get a scratch from muktlan
So moloc not only DIDNT kill his enemy but let him get away AND was fool enough to get vented while fully functional? hows this guy still a CM?
really cus last I checked Skarbrands still alive soo what does that say about Dante?
Lucarikx wrote: Wow, first time I've seen anyone disregard Mathhammer.
Remember, Mathhammer does average results, so you can expect what happens when you roll the dice.
Still can't believe how people disregard MathHammer as "crap".
Lucarikx
Also, whats the point of doing brackets, Bigboss, if you don't count TT?
Sorry i took a break, i see the troll is still well fed. As for brackets, if we are calling it on fluff again, no point. Plus, 3 wouldnt be an accurate number. If i flip a coin 3 times and get all heads that means little. Now i flip a coin 1,000 times and get all heads i more than likely have a double-headed coin.
Lucarikx wrote: Y'know, on the TT the Death Mask doesn't care if you have Fearless or not.
Also, weapon skill doesn't depend on maneuverability as much as does on the martial prowess of the character - meaning a nimble eldar civilian won't have a higher weapon skill than say a Dreadnought.
Unless you have it in front of you, a SS doesn't do a thing if you have a melta aimed at your face.
The Spear relies on jabbing actions to be dangerous. You can swing an Axe around and land hits something in swifter motions.
Pff... If you get hit repeatedly in soft mesh and get your leg amputated you won't be fighting much longer.
Do we have any fluff evidence of Moloc killing ANYONE important in single combat? He knows how to insult people, and thats really about it......
Lucarikx
yes on the TT is guess what irrelevant and yet again you have given NO proof whatsoever that says terminator armor prevents you from thrusting a spear which i think is the most desperate defense you guys have with NOTHING to back it up, and no sorry your are wrong bub the WS is his effectiveness in close combat its not the prowess of anything and effectiveness relies on what your ability to use your weapon which goes hand in hand with what??? maneuverability wow! soo i repeat since you have no logical proof to substantiate any of your desperate claims to victory aside from well......nothing and im not going to sift through my badab books but no most people he fights run in fear even a necron lord.
Dude, read my post again. I said maneuverability was a part of it, but the skill is whats most important. Also, I never said TDA prevents you from using a spear..... I just said theres only 1 real way a using a spear in combat.
Go read about your weapons a bit more, there's a good reason why spears are less efficient than axes.
Go read Moloc's Lexicanum article, he got his a$$ kicked my Maktlan Kutlakh, the Necron Lord of the Maynark Dynasty, who promptly vented Moloc into space after nearly killing him.
If he killed some nameless Necron Lord, good for him. If you aren't familiar with the Necron hierarchy, Necron lords are like advisers to the Overlords, who command the Dynasties.
Lucarikx
instead of reading lexicanum read Imperial armour volume 12 in which his termies die his contempter buddy dies and muktlan gets speared and on his retreat vents moloc, moloc does not get a scratch from muktlan
So moloc not only DIDNT kill his enemy but let him get away AND was fool enough to get vented while fully functional? hows this guy still a CM?
really cus last I checked Skarbrands still alive soo what does that say about Dante?
It means you cant destroy that daemon..? just like every other daemon..? Its an energy-based life form. You can banish it (like Dante did) but show me one instance in which a daemon was killed never to return. Necrons, however, die.
really cus last I checked Skarbrands still alive soo what does that say about Dante?
Oh man, get a load of this one! You don't understand a thing about Daemons, do you? You banish them, not kill them.
Also, Moloc didn't waste the Necron Lord on his own - The Lord had gone through the entire retinue of 30 Terminators AND 2 Contemptors! Last I checked Space Marine Captains/Chapter Masters are exiled or shamed for losing such precious warriors.
Lucarikx wrote: Wow, first time I've seen anyone disregard Mathhammer.
Remember, Mathhammer does average results, so you can expect what happens when you roll the dice.
Still can't believe how people disregard MathHammer as "crap".
Lucarikx
Also, whats the point of doing brackets, Bigboss, if you don't count TT?
Sorry i took a break, i see the troll is still well fed. As for brackets, if we are calling it on fluff again, no point. Plus, 3 wouldnt be an accurate number. If i flip a coin 3 times and get all heads that means little. Now i flip a coin 1,000 times and get all heads i more than likely have a double-headed coin.
Lucarikx wrote: Y'know, on the TT the Death Mask doesn't care if you have Fearless or not.
Also, weapon skill doesn't depend on maneuverability as much as does on the martial prowess of the character - meaning a nimble eldar civilian won't have a higher weapon skill than say a Dreadnought.
Unless you have it in front of you, a SS doesn't do a thing if you have a melta aimed at your face.
The Spear relies on jabbing actions to be dangerous. You can swing an Axe around and land hits something in swifter motions.
Pff... If you get hit repeatedly in soft mesh and get your leg amputated you won't be fighting much longer.
Do we have any fluff evidence of Moloc killing ANYONE important in single combat? He knows how to insult people, and thats really about it......
Lucarikx
yes on the TT is guess what irrelevant and yet again you have given NO proof whatsoever that says terminator armor prevents you from thrusting a spear which i think is the most desperate defense you guys have with NOTHING to back it up, and no sorry your are wrong bub the WS is his effectiveness in close combat its not the prowess of anything and effectiveness relies on what your ability to use your weapon which goes hand in hand with what??? maneuverability wow! soo i repeat since you have no logical proof to substantiate any of your desperate claims to victory aside from well......nothing and im not going to sift through my badab books but no most people he fights run in fear even a necron lord.
Dude, read my post again. I said maneuverability was a part of it, but the skill is whats most important. Also, I never said TDA prevents you from using a spear..... I just said theres only 1 real way a using a spear in combat.
Go read about your weapons a bit more, there's a good reason why spears are less efficient than axes.
Go read Moloc's Lexicanum article, he got his a$$ kicked my Maktlan Kutlakh, the Necron Lord of the Maynark Dynasty, who promptly vented Moloc into space after nearly killing him.
If he killed some nameless Necron Lord, good for him. If you aren't familiar with the Necron hierarchy, Necron lords are like advisers to the Overlords, who command the Dynasties.
Lucarikx
instead of reading lexicanum read Imperial armour volume 12 in which his termies die his contempter buddy dies and muktlan gets speared and on his retreat vents moloc, moloc does not get a scratch from muktlan
So moloc not only DIDNT kill his enemy but let him get away AND was fool enough to get vented while fully functional? hows this guy still a CM?
cus I already won the fluff common sense battle forever ago against dante, although im sure logan or calgar would probably finish off Moloc I think it would be fun to have a bracket tournament why not I mean your not going to stop flaunting your golden dookie.
Lucarikx wrote: [spoiler][spoiler]Wow, first time I've seen anyone disregard Mathhammer.
Remember, Mathhammer does average results, so you can expect what happens when you roll the dice.
Still can't believe how people disregard MathHammer as "crap".
Lucarikx
Also, whats the point of doing brackets, Bigboss, if you don't count TT?
Sorry i took a break, i see the troll is still well fed. As for brackets, if we are calling it on fluff again, no point. Plus, 3 wouldnt be an accurate number. If i flip a coin 3 times and get all heads that means little. Now i flip a coin 1,000 times and get all heads i more than likely have a double-headed coin.
Lucarikx wrote: Y'know, on the TT the Death Mask doesn't care if you have Fearless or not.
Also, weapon skill doesn't depend on maneuverability as much as does on the martial prowess of the character - meaning a nimble eldar civilian won't have a higher weapon skill than say a Dreadnought.
Unless you have it in front of you, a SS doesn't do a thing if you have a melta aimed at your face.
The Spear relies on jabbing actions to be dangerous. You can swing an Axe around and land hits something in swifter motions.
Pff... If you get hit repeatedly in soft mesh and get your leg amputated you won't be fighting much longer.
Do we have any fluff evidence of Moloc killing ANYONE important in single combat? He knows how to insult people, and thats really about it......
Lucarikx
yes on the TT is guess what irrelevant and yet again you have given NO proof whatsoever that says terminator armor prevents you from thrusting a spear which i think is the most desperate defense you guys have with NOTHING to back it up, and no sorry your are wrong bub the WS is his effectiveness in close combat its not the prowess of anything and effectiveness relies on what your ability to use your weapon which goes hand in hand with what??? maneuverability wow! soo i repeat since you have no logical proof to substantiate any of your desperate claims to victory aside from well......nothing and im not going to sift through my badab books but no most people he fights run in fear even a necron lord.
Dude, read my post again. I said maneuverability was a part of it, but the skill is whats most important. Also, I never said TDA prevents you from using a spear..... I just said theres only 1 real way a using a spear in combat.
Go read about your weapons a bit more, there's a good reason why spears are less efficient than axes.
Go read Moloc's Lexicanum article, he got his a$$ kicked my Maktlan Kutlakh, the Necron Lord of the Maynark Dynasty, who promptly vented Moloc into space after nearly killing him.
If he killed some nameless Necron Lord, good for him. If you aren't familiar with the Necron hierarchy, Necron lords are like advisers to the Overlords, who command the Dynasties.
Lucarikx
instead of reading lexicanum read Imperial armour volume 12 in which his termies die his contempter buddy dies and muktlan gets speared and on his retreat vents moloc, moloc does not get a scratch from muktlan
So moloc not only DIDNT kill his enemy but let him get away AND was fool enough to get vented while fully functional? hows this guy still a CM?
cus I already won the fluff common sense battle forever ago against dante, although im sure logan or calgar would probably finish off Moloc I think it would be fun to have a bracket tournament why not I mean your not going to stop flaunting your golden dookie.
[/spoiler][/spoiler]
Actually you determined you won that makes it about as official as me declaring myself king of England... TT wise we have proven that if you run the sim 1,000 times Dante will be the clear winner... Facts are proven with numbers. The bigger the number the more realistic it is. Do i have to lecture you about the coin again?
really cus last I checked Skarbrands still alive soo what does that say about Dante?
Oh man, get a load of this one! You don't understand a thing about Daemons, do you? You banish them, not kill them.
Lucarikx
your right but still the whole necron getting away thing is irrelevent he did a suicidal boarding action onto a necron ship with a small crew and won the battle ok soo what he got vented, yeah necron lords can be killed but tell me name a character that has killed a named necron lord???
Lobukia wrote: I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer
If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.
I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.
Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.
Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.
mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2
Um, wow. It this training wheels day. 1.5 wounds would mean in two battles one would expect the unit to take one wound as many times as it would take 2. So in ten battles, five would give 1 wound, five would give 2. 1.8 means quite a bit, thank you much. It means that in ten matches, 8 times a unit would take 2, only twice would it take 1. However, mathhammer newbs always want to round at the end of a turn. You can't do that. That 1.8 needs to stay as such to show the effects of those times it was 1 wound instead of two
I've never understood the complaints of using MH to explain a match up. All it does is show who would do what a majority if the time. It's a game with dice. I've had a marine sergeant kill Shrike in a challenge before. If what I took away from that was that a sarg with a PF was a sure thing in a challenge against Shrike, I'd be kinda dumb. Mathhammer educates. How rare was that outcome? If I'm running Shrike, how worried should be. Why would you not want to understand how the game works under the hood?
really cus last I checked Skarbrands still alive soo what does that say about Dante?
Oh man, get a load of this one! You don't understand a thing about Daemons, do you? You banish them, not kill them.
Lucarikx
your right but still the whole necron getting away thing is irrelevent he did a suicidal boarding action onto a necron ship with a small crew and won the battle ok soo what he got vented, yeah necron lords can be killed but tell me name a character that has killed a named necron lord???
How is it irrelevant? he didnt win if the target escaped did he? as for the suicidal mission, Dante is currently defending his home world from a daemon incursion and a hive fleet... I think he takes the cake of "suicidal"
Lobukia wrote: I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer
If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.
I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.
Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.
Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.
mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2
Um, wow. It this training wheels day. 1.5 wounds would mean in two battles one would expect the unit to take one wound as many times as it would take 2. So in ten battles, five would give 1 wound, five would give 2. 1.8 means quite a bit, thank you much. It means that in ten matches, 8 times a unit would take 2, only twice would it take 1. However, mathhammer newbs always want to round at the end of a turn. You can't do that. That 1.8 needs to stay as such to show the effects of those times it was 1 wound instead of two
I've never understood the complaints of using MH to explain a match up. All it does is show who would do what a majority if the time. It's a game with dice. I've had a marine sergeant kill Shrike in a challenge before. If what I took away from that was that a sarg with a PF was a sure thing in a challenge against Shrike, I'd be kinda dumb. Mathhammer educates. How rare was that outcome? If I'm running Shrike, how worried should be. Why would you not want to understand how the game works under the hood?
But remember, without internet trolls you wouldnt be so good at math!
Lucarikx wrote: Common sense battle? It was repeatedly shown that Dante has a more reasonable chance than Moloc, right?
Lucarikx
where was it repeatedly shown YOUR ONLY DEFENSE IS THAT MOLOC CANT SPEAR PEOPLE thats litteraly the only point you made against him which has been invalidated Moloc is better epuiped just as fast and more durable what is it that dante has the probability to quote on quote dance away your kidding me
Lucarikx wrote: Common sense battle? It was repeatedly shown that Dante has a more reasonable chance than Moloc, right?
Lucarikx
where was it repeatedly shown YOUR ONLY DEFENSE IS THAT MOLOC CANT SPEAR PEOPLE thats litteraly the only point you made against him which has been invalidated Moloc is better epuiped just as fast and more durable what is it that dante has the probability to quote on quote dance away your kidding me
Wow, go look at a doctor you seem to have a bit of amnesia mate. We made (between us) 16 points as to how Dante has an advantage. You made 6 (all of which were blown out of proportion) that we gave numerous downsides to.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lucarikx wrote: Interesting brackets.... Heres my predictions:
Lucarikx wrote: Common sense battle? It was repeatedly shown that Dante has a more reasonable chance than Moloc, right?
Lucarikx
where was it repeatedly shown YOUR ONLY DEFENSE IS THAT MOLOC CANT SPEAR PEOPLE thats litteraly the only point you made against him which has been invalidated Moloc is better epuiped just as fast and more durable what is it that dante has the probability to quote on quote dance away your kidding me
Please go read my posts again, I actually made 5 distinct points on how Dante has a better chance than Moloc. Also, it would be easier to read your posts if you used correct punctuation.
Lobukia wrote: I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer
If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.
I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.
Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.
Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.
mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2
Um, wow. It this training wheels day. 1.5 wounds would mean in two battles one would expect the unit to take one wound as many times as it would take 2. So in ten battles, five would give 1 wound, five would give 2. 1.8 means quite a bit, thank you much. It means that in ten matches, 8 times a unit would take 2, only twice would it take 1. However, mathhammer newbs always want to round at the end of a turn. You can't do that. That 1.8 needs to stay as such to show the effects of those times it was 1 wound instead of two
I've never understood the complaints of using MH to explain a match up. All it does is show who would do what a majority if the time. It's a game with dice. I've had a marine sergeant kill Shrike in a challenge before. If what I took away from that was that a sarg with a PF was a sure thing in a challenge against Shrike, I'd be kinda dumb. Mathhammer educates. How rare was that outcome? If I'm running Shrike, how worried should be. Why would you not want to understand how the game works under the hood?
In mathhammer it is IMPOSSIABLE for shrike to loose against a unit sarg. WHY????? because he will always do at least one wound. REALITY.......thats not true. So basing anything off of mathhammer is crap because it is not reality.
Lucarikx wrote: Common sense battle? It was repeatedly shown that Dante has a more reasonable chance than Moloc, right?
Lucarikx
where was it repeatedly shown YOUR ONLY DEFENSE IS THAT MOLOC CANT SPEAR PEOPLE thats litteraly the only point you made against him which has been invalidated Moloc is better epuiped just as fast and more durable what is it that dante has the probability to quote on quote dance away your kidding me
Wow, go look at a doctor you seem to have a bit of amnesia mate. We made (between us) 16 points as to how Dante has an advantage. You made 6 (all of which were blown out of proportion) that we gave numerous downsides to.
LMAO ok ok show me these 16 points cus ive been here for every page and id be surprised if you had three that werent blown out of prorportion and that i didnt already put down I want to see this and where you got this insane number i want to laugh.
Lobukia wrote: I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer
If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.
I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.
Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.
Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.
mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2
Um, wow. It this training wheels day. 1.5 wounds would mean in two battles one would expect the unit to take one wound as many times as it would take 2. So in ten battles, five would give 1 wound, five would give 2. 1.8 means quite a bit, thank you much. It means that in ten matches, 8 times a unit would take 2, only twice would it take 1. However, mathhammer newbs always want to round at the end of a turn. You can't do that. That 1.8 needs to stay as such to show the effects of those times it was 1 wound instead of two
I've never understood the complaints of using MH to explain a match up. All it does is show who would do what a majority if the time. It's a game with dice. I've had a marine sergeant kill Shrike in a challenge before. If what I took away from that was that a sarg with a PF was a sure thing in a challenge against Shrike, I'd be kinda dumb. Mathhammer educates. How rare was that outcome? If I'm running Shrike, how worried should be. Why would you not want to understand how the game works under the hood?
In mathhammer it is IMPOSSIABLE for shrike to loose against a unit sarg. WHY????? because he will always do at least one wound. REALITY.......thats not true. So basing anything off of mathhammer is crap because it is not reality.
No.. mathhammer is average. Average shrike will do at least 1 wound, theres times he has done 4 and times he has done 0. That doesnt mean he cant do anything but 1, it means normally he'll deal at least 1.
Lucarikx wrote: Common sense battle? It was repeatedly shown that Dante has a more reasonable chance than Moloc, right?
Lucarikx
where was it repeatedly shown YOUR ONLY DEFENSE IS THAT MOLOC CANT SPEAR PEOPLE thats litteraly the only point you made against him which has been invalidated Moloc is better epuiped just as fast and more durable what is it that dante has the probability to quote on quote dance away your kidding me
Please go read my posts again, I actually made 5 distinct points on how Dante has a better chance than Moloc. Also, it would be easier to read your posts if you used correct punctuation.
Lucarikx
and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses
Lobukia wrote: I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer
If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.
I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.
Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.
Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.
mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2
Um, wow. It this training wheels day. 1.5 wounds would mean in two battles one would expect the unit to take one wound as many times as it would take 2. So in ten battles, five would give 1 wound, five would give 2. 1.8 means quite a bit, thank you much. It means that in ten matches, 8 times a unit would take 2, only twice would it take 1. However, mathhammer newbs always want to round at the end of a turn. You can't do that. That 1.8 needs to stay as such to show the effects of those times it was 1 wound instead of two
I've never understood the complaints of using MH to explain a match up. All it does is show who would do what a majority if the time. It's a game with dice. I've had a marine sergeant kill Shrike in a challenge before. If what I took away from that was that a sarg with a PF was a sure thing in a challenge against Shrike, I'd be kinda dumb. Mathhammer educates. How rare was that outcome? If I'm running Shrike, how worried should be. Why would you not want to understand how the game works under the hood?
In mathhammer it is IMPOSSIABLE for shrike to loose against a unit sarg. WHY????? because he will always do at least one wound. REALITY.......thats not true. So basing anything off of mathhammer is crap because it is not reality.
No.. mathhammer is average. Average shrike will do at least 1 wound, theres times he has done 4 and times he has done 0. That doesnt mean he cant do anything but 1, it means normally he'll deal at least 1.
Yes on average he wins 100% of the time. What makes that viable? The dice are fickle and you can say averages all day long but its not a game of averages. Do you roll the fight off 1000 times in the game or do you do it just once?? It is random
You mean aside from mobility (1) speed (2) maneuverability (3) and the flexibility that comes with a JP (4) that constitutes his ability to outmanouver him, the fact that a spear is not designed for use in full armor (ever see a Knight use a spear)(5) the axe is likely to destroy the shield (6) the single shot from the end of a "long ass spear" would be hard to aim at a moving target and he would have to be entirely still to use it (7, 8, and 9) would constitute why the weapon sets are in Dante's favor, yes the final thing is he will melt him with a meltagun. Which is wrist mounted for ease of use, meaning he can move and fire it easily. Now do a set for why moloc has a chance theres my 9 from page 9 (ironic i know) ill go look for the rest now
Lobukia wrote: I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer
If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.
I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.
Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.
Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.
mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2
Um, wow. It this training wheels day. 1.5 wounds would mean in two battles one would expect the unit to take one wound as many times as it would take 2. So in ten battles, five would give 1 wound, five would give 2. 1.8 means quite a bit, thank you much. It means that in ten matches, 8 times a unit would take 2, only twice would it take 1. However, mathhammer newbs always want to round at the end of a turn. You can't do that. That 1.8 needs to stay as such to show the effects of those times it was 1 wound instead of two
I've never understood the complaints of using MH to explain a match up. All it does is show who would do what a majority if the time. It's a game with dice. I've had a marine sergeant kill Shrike in a challenge before. If what I took away from that was that a sarg with a PF was a sure thing in a challenge against Shrike, I'd be kinda dumb. Mathhammer educates. How rare was that outcome? If I'm running Shrike, how worried should be. Why would you not want to understand how the game works under the hood?
In mathhammer it is IMPOSSIABLE for shrike to loose against a unit sarg. WHY????? because he will always do at least one wound. REALITY.......thats not true. So basing anything off of mathhammer is crap because it is not reality.
No.. mathhammer is average. Average shrike will do at least 1 wound, theres times he has done 4 and times he has done 0. That doesnt mean he cant do anything but 1, it means normally he'll deal at least 1.
Yes on average he wins 100% of the time. What makes that viable? The dice are fickle and you can say averages all day long but its not a game of averages. Do you roll the fight off 1000 times in the game or do you do it just once?? It is random
Well if i flip a coin i have a 50/50 chance of heads or tails... i flip it once and get heads... those "real world applications" say ill get a heads 100% of the time... see why you dont do things just once?
Lucarikx wrote: Common sense battle? It was repeatedly shown that Dante has a more reasonable chance than Moloc, right?
Lucarikx
where was it repeatedly shown YOUR ONLY DEFENSE IS THAT MOLOC CANT SPEAR PEOPLE thats litteraly the only point you made against him which has been invalidated Moloc is better epuiped just as fast and more durable what is it that dante has the probability to quote on quote dance away your kidding me
Please go read my posts again, I actually made 5 distinct points on how Dante has a better chance than Moloc. Also, it would be easier to read your posts if you used correct punctuation.
Lucarikx
and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses
I did look at your post and gave a reason each as to why they would prove my points... I am making reason and i do it without reverting to personal attacks unlike yourself. What is one reason or "excuse" ive used that was illogical?
and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses
You know what? I know this is feeding the troll, and its really infuriating to discuss this with someone who refuses to accept facts, both TT wise and deduced fluff wise.
You made a thread on what everybody thinks. We come in with evidence in fluff and on the table top, and you refuse to believe that anyone can think that someone is better Asterion Moloc. Guess what? If you can't accept others opinions, there is no point to this thread.
Lobukia wrote: I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer
If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.
I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.
Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.
Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.
mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2
Um, wow. It this training wheels day. 1.5 wounds would mean in two battles one would expect the unit to take one wound as many times as it would take 2. So in ten battles, five would give 1 wound, five would give 2. 1.8 means quite a bit, thank you much. It means that in ten matches, 8 times a unit would take 2, only twice would it take 1. However, mathhammer newbs always want to round at the end of a turn. You can't do that. That 1.8 needs to stay as such to show the effects of those times it was 1 wound instead of two
I've never understood the complaints of using MH to explain a match up. All it does is show who would do what a majority if the time. It's a game with dice. I've had a marine sergeant kill Shrike in a challenge before. If what I took away from that was that a sarg with a PF was a sure thing in a challenge against Shrike, I'd be kinda dumb. Mathhammer educates. How rare was that outcome? If I'm running Shrike, how worried should be. Why would you not want to understand how the game works under the hood?
In mathhammer it is IMPOSSIABLE for shrike to loose against a unit sarg. WHY????? because he will always do at least one wound. REALITY.......thats not true. So basing anything off of mathhammer is crap because it is not reality.
No.. mathhammer is average. Average shrike will do at least 1 wound, theres times he has done 4 and times he has done 0. That doesnt mean he cant do anything but 1, it means normally he'll deal at least 1.
Yes on average he wins 100% of the time. What makes that viable? The dice are fickle and you can say averages all day long but its not a game of averages. Do you roll the fight off 1000 times in the game or do you do it just once?? It is random
Well if i flip a coin i have a 50/50 chance of heads or tails... i flip it once and get heads... those "real world applications" say ill get a heads 100% of the time... see why you dont do things just once?
Do me a favor and think about what it is like when you play a game of 40k. Do you roll fights out 100 times and decide whoever won the most wins the fight and the other dies? No you dont. That is why you do it once.
Lobukia wrote: I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer
If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.
I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.
Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.
Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.
mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2
Um, wow. It this training wheels day. 1.5 wounds would mean in two battles one would expect the unit to take one wound as many times as it would take 2. So in ten battles, five would give 1 wound, five would give 2. 1.8 means quite a bit, thank you much. It means that in ten matches, 8 times a unit would take 2, only twice would it take 1. However, mathhammer newbs always want to round at the end of a turn. You can't do that. That 1.8 needs to stay as such to show the effects of those times it was 1 wound instead of two
I've never understood the complaints of using MH to explain a match up. All it does is show who would do what a majority if the time. It's a game with dice. I've had a marine sergeant kill Shrike in a challenge before. If what I took away from that was that a sarg with a PF was a sure thing in a challenge against Shrike, I'd be kinda dumb. Mathhammer educates. How rare was that outcome? If I'm running Shrike, how worried should be. Why would you not want to understand how the game works under the hood?
In mathhammer it is IMPOSSIABLE for shrike to loose against a unit sarg. WHY????? because he will always do at least one wound. REALITY.......thats not true. So basing anything off of mathhammer is crap because it is not reality.
No.. mathhammer is average. Average shrike will do at least 1 wound, theres times he has done 4 and times he has done 0. That doesnt mean he cant do anything but 1, it means normally he'll deal at least 1.
Yes on average he wins 100% of the time. What makes that viable? The dice are fickle and you can say averages all day long but its not a game of averages. Do you roll the fight off 1000 times in the game or do you do it just once?? It is random
Well if i flip a coin i have a 50/50 chance of heads or tails... i flip it once and get heads... those "real world applications" say ill get a heads 100% of the time... see why you dont do things just once?
Do me a favor and think about what it is like when you play a game of 40k. Do you roll fights out 100 times and decide whoever won the most wins the fight and the other dies? No you dont. That is why you do it once.
No but if youre truly trying to see who would win? you dont do it a single time.
and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses
You know what? I know this is feeding the troll, and its really infuriating to discuss this with someone who refuses to accept facts, both TT wise and deduced fluff wise.
You made a thread on what everybody thinks. We come in with evidence in fluff and on the table top, and you refuse to believe that anyone can think that someone is better Asterion Moloc. Guess what? If you can't accept others opinions, there is no point to this thread.
Lucarikx
I am simply pointing out why averages do not work in game. ALSO I am all about discussion over who would win fluff-wise. My vote went to Azrael as a da fan I say my chapter master is the biggest bad ass in the galaxy. In game he is not. The fact of the matter is that all of your averages aside ANYONE can beat ANYONE when it is on the table and you roll it out. That is why mathhammer is crap.
You mean aside from mobility (1) speed (2) maneuverability (3) and the flexibility that comes with a JP (4) that constitutes his ability to outmanouver him, the fact that a spear is not designed for use in full armor (ever see a Knight use a spear)(5) the axe is likely to destroy the shield (6) the single shot from the end of a "long ass spear" would be hard to aim at a moving target and he would have to be entirely still to use it (7, 8, and 9) would constitute why the weapon sets are in Dante's favor, yes the final thing is he will melt him with a meltagun. Which is wrist mounted for ease of use, meaning he can move and fire it easily. Now do a set for why moloc has a chance theres my 9 from page 9 (ironic i know) ill go look for the rest now
you cant use mobility speed or manueverability cus theres no way to clarify who is faster that negates 1, 2, and 3, for both of us and the whole spear is not designed for heavy armor is irrelevant what its designed for mean nothing his ability to use it means everything ( nunchucks and Kamas were designed to be farming tools guess what there used for?) i dont see how a space marine has trouble aiming anything but that might be your only valid arguement, the axe is LIKELY to destroy the shield ok lets get those likely's outta here and ill add for Moloc durability way more then dante not just because of his armor but his cypernetics as well, and Ill throw in there his complete insanity, paronia, and complete disregard for life.
and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses
You know what? I know this is feeding the troll, and its really infuriating to discuss this with someone who refuses to accept facts, both TT wise and deduced fluff wise.
You made a thread on what everybody thinks. We come in with evidence in fluff and on the table top, and you refuse to believe that anyone can think that someone is better Asterion Moloc. Guess what? If you can't accept others opinions, there is no point to this thread.
Lucarikx
I am simply pointing out why averages do not work in game. ALSO I am all about discussion over who would win fluff-wise. My vote went to Azrael as a da fan I say my chapter master is the biggest bad ass in the galaxy. In game he is not. The fact of the matter is that all of your averages aside ANYONE can beat ANYONE when it is on the table and you roll it out. That is why mathhammer is crap.
and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses
You know what? I know this is feeding the troll, and its really infuriating to discuss this with someone who refuses to accept facts, both TT wise and deduced fluff wise.
You made a thread on what everybody thinks. We come in with evidence in fluff and on the table top, and you refuse to believe that anyone can think that someone is better Asterion Moloc. Guess what? If you can't accept others opinions, there is no point to this thread.
Lucarikx
I am simply pointing out why averages do not work in game. ALSO I am all about discussion over who would win fluff-wise. My vote went to Azrael as a da fan I say my chapter master is the biggest bad ass in the galaxy. In game he is not. The fact of the matter is that all of your averages aside ANYONE can beat ANYONE when it is on the table and you roll it out. That is why mathhammer is crap.
Again.. averages. On average X will beat Y. That doesnt mean Y cant beat X. It meand that X beats Y most of the time though. Basic understanding of math, averages are not facts. Just because shrike will win on average does not mean he will ALWAYS win.
Lobukia wrote: I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer
If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.
I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.
Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.
Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.
mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2
Um, wow. It this training wheels day. 1.5 wounds would mean in two battles one would expect the unit to take one wound as many times as it would take 2. So in ten battles, five would give 1 wound, five would give 2. 1.8 means quite a bit, thank you much. It means that in ten matches, 8 times a unit would take 2, only twice would it take 1. However, mathhammer newbs always want to round at the end of a turn. You can't do that. That 1.8 needs to stay as such to show the effects of those times it was 1 wound instead of two
I've never understood the complaints of using MH to explain a match up. All it does is show who would do what a majority if the time. It's a game with dice. I've had a marine sergeant kill Shrike in a challenge before. If what I took away from that was that a sarg with a PF was a sure thing in a challenge against Shrike, I'd be kinda dumb. Mathhammer educates. How rare was that outcome? If I'm running Shrike, how worried should be. Why would you not want to understand how the game works under the hood?
In mathhammer it is IMPOSSIABLE for shrike to loose against a unit sarg. WHY????? because he will always do at least one wound. REALITY.......thats not true. So basing anything off of mathhammer is crap because it is not reality.
No.. mathhammer is average. Average shrike will do at least 1 wound, theres times he has done 4 and times he has done 0. That doesnt mean he cant do anything but 1, it means normally he'll deal at least 1.
Yes on average he wins 100% of the time. What makes that viable? The dice are fickle and you can say averages all day long but its not a game of averages. Do you roll the fight off 1000 times in the game or do you do it just once?? It is random
Well if i flip a coin i have a 50/50 chance of heads or tails... i flip it once and get heads... those "real world applications" say ill get a heads 100% of the time... see why you dont do things just once?
Do me a favor and think about what it is like when you play a game of 40k. Do you roll fights out 100 times and decide whoever won the most wins the fight and the other dies? No you dont. That is why you do it once.
No but if youre truly trying to see who would win? you dont do it a single time.
thats why I say when you roll it out first to 3 wins takes it. If you do the mathhammer it is predictable who will win every time. If you do best of 5 it still leaves the element of chance with dice and more then likely some kind of average will factor.
and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses
You know what? I know this is feeding the troll, and its really infuriating to discuss this with someone who refuses to accept facts, both TT wise and deduced fluff wise.
You made a thread on what everybody thinks. We come in with evidence in fluff and on the table top, and you refuse to believe that anyone can think that someone is better Asterion Moloc. Guess what? If you can't accept others opinions, there is no point to this thread.
Lucarikx
I am simply pointing out why averages do not work in game. ALSO I am all about discussion over who would win fluff-wise. My vote went to Azrael as a da fan I say my chapter master is the biggest bad ass in the galaxy. In game he is not. The fact of the matter is that all of your averages aside ANYONE can beat ANYONE when it is on the table and you roll it out. That is why mathhammer is crap.
I don't see how this applies to what my post said, truthfully.
This thread isn't going anywhere, its just getting closer to getting locked by a mod.
and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses
You know what? I know this is feeding the troll, and its really infuriating to discuss this with someone who refuses to accept facts, both TT wise and deduced fluff wise.
You made a thread on what everybody thinks. We come in with evidence in fluff and on the table top, and you refuse to believe that anyone can think that someone is better Asterion Moloc. Guess what? If you can't accept others opinions, there is no point to this thread.
Lucarikx
but if you can read I already stated that Moloc would lose I know this but not to Dante thats what these past like 9 pages have been Im pretty sure calgar will pepper him to death and logan would wulfen his ass but dante has nothing aside from ooooo he's fast ok goooooooood job it does not mean hes the best at all, as many of us have said already.
and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses
You know what? I know this is feeding the troll, and its really infuriating to discuss this with someone who refuses to accept facts, both TT wise and deduced fluff wise.
You made a thread on what everybody thinks. We come in with evidence in fluff and on the table top, and you refuse to believe that anyone can think that someone is better Asterion Moloc. Guess what? If you can't accept others opinions, there is no point to this thread.
Lucarikx
I am simply pointing out why averages do not work in game. ALSO I am all about discussion over who would win fluff-wise. My vote went to Azrael as a da fan I say my chapter master is the biggest bad ass in the galaxy. In game he is not. The fact of the matter is that all of your averages aside ANYONE can beat ANYONE when it is on the table and you roll it out. That is why mathhammer is crap.
Again.. averages. On average X will beat Y. That doesnt mean Y cant beat X. It meand that X beats Y most of the time though. Basic understanding of math, averages are not facts. Just because shrike will win on average does not mean he will ALWAYS win.
If you dont roll dice then the element of chance is removed. Sure that 99 out of 100 shrike wins but when you play the game and roll it out who knows what will happen
and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses
You know what? I know this is feeding the troll, and its really infuriating to discuss this with someone who refuses to accept facts, both TT wise and deduced fluff wise.
You made a thread on what everybody thinks. We come in with evidence in fluff and on the table top, and you refuse to believe that anyone can think that someone is better Asterion Moloc. Guess what? If you can't accept others opinions, there is no point to this thread.
Lucarikx
I am simply pointing out why averages do not work in game. ALSO I am all about discussion over who would win fluff-wise. My vote went to Azrael as a da fan I say my chapter master is the biggest bad ass in the galaxy. In game he is not. The fact of the matter is that all of your averages aside ANYONE can beat ANYONE when it is on the table and you roll it out. That is why mathhammer is crap.
I don't see how this applies to what my post said, truthfully.
This thread isn't going anywhere, its just getting closer to getting locked by a mod.
Lucarikx
I am not even arguing about who would beat who. I just said that on the tt it is anyones game. Power gamers live and die by their mathhammer and that good sir makes the game no longer fun.
and look at my post I made 6 distinct points on how Moloc would undo Dante, your point? you still refuse to listen to reason and make up the dumbest excuses
You know what? I know this is feeding the troll, and its really infuriating to discuss this with someone who refuses to accept facts, both TT wise and deduced fluff wise.
You made a thread on what everybody thinks. We come in with evidence in fluff and on the table top, and you refuse to believe that anyone can think that someone is better Asterion Moloc. Guess what? If you can't accept others opinions, there is no point to this thread.
Lucarikx
but if you can read I already stated that Moloc would lose I know this but not to Dante thats what these past like 9 pages have been Im pretty sure calgar will pepper him to death and logan would wulfen his ass but dante has nothing aside from ooooo he's fast ok goooooooood job it does not mean hes the best at all, as many of us have said already.
Wow..... Its interesting to see how, like I said, disregard facts stated not just by me, but other members. Why are you avoiding the second part of my post?
Also, you've broken Dakka Posting Rule 1 in every single one of your posts. Not being a grammar Nazi, but seriously. Read the Rules and try to abide them. It makes it easier for others to communicate with you.
And I'll say this once again:
This thread isn't going anywhere, its just getting closer to getting locked by a mod.
You mean aside from mobility (1) speed (2) maneuverability (3) and the flexibility that comes with a JP (4) that constitutes his ability to outmanouver him, the fact that a spear is not designed for use in full armor (ever see a Knight use a spear)(5) the axe is likely to destroy the shield (6) the single shot from the end of a "long ass spear" would be hard to aim at a moving target and he would have to be entirely still to use it (7, 8, and 9) would constitute why the weapon sets are in Dante's favor, yes the final thing is he will melt him with a meltagun. Which is wrist mounted for ease of use, meaning he can move and fire it easily. Now do a set for why moloc has a chance theres my 9 from page 9 (ironic i know) ill go look for the rest now
you cant use mobility speed or manueverability cus theres no way to clarify who is faster that negates 1, 2, and 3, for both of us and the whole spear is not designed for heavy armor is irrelevant what its designed for mean nothing his ability to use it means everything ( nunchucks and Kamas were designed to be farming tools guess what there used for?) i dont see how a space marine has trouble aiming anything but that might be your only valid arguement, the axe is LIKELY to destroy the shield ok lets get those likely's outta here and ill add for Moloc durability way more then dante not just because of his armor but his cypernetics as well, and Ill throw in there his complete insanity, paronia, and complete disregard for life.
Its been STATED terminator armor is less maneuverable and mobile than PA... So that brings back 1&3, you didnt touch 4, okay let me restate: He cannot use a spear effectively in his armor (5), its basic knowledge. He cannot aim it properly without holding it just behind the head, and up in front of his face to sight down it. That would be impossible with a spear. You didnt touch the "immobile and single shot" portion, and cybernetics =/= durability. I cut this wire and they deactivate. They come with the inherant danger that merely slicing a wire (a mere scrape) could shut him down
Do Artificer Armor and Terminator Armor provide the same or a similar amount of protection (aside from energy fields for Invuln saves) in terms of physical protection?
It seems like Artificer Armor somewhat covers a wide range of armors that have been modified, and is just standardized for the tabletop.
I have to imagine that Dante's Artificer Armor, seeing as he's the CT of a first founding chapter, provides about as good of protection as one could expect such armor to provide.
Also, in terms of Molec v. Dante, I'm reminded of the Fire Emblem weapon triangle. Axes beat spears and polearms, which beat swords, which beat axes.
Basically, Dante wins because Fire Emblem told me so. Also Grimnar for the same reason. Calgar is outside the weapon triangle, which makes things tough.
Of course, that would also mean Draigo loses because he has a sword, and we all know Matt Ward would never allow that.
Gabriel Angelos is the clear winner over the two clowns Moloch, and Dante. They're both forced to fight him bare-handed due to "gifting" all the sacred weapons from the blood angels, and minotaur chapter the night before their battle.
DogofWar1 wrote: Do Artificer Armor and Terminator Armor provide the same or a similar amount of protection (aside from energy fields for Invuln saves) in terms of physical protection?
It seems like Artificer Armor somewhat covers a wide range of armors that have been modified, and is just standardized for the tabletop.
I have to imagine that Dante's Artificer Armor, seeing as he's the CT of a first founding chapter, provides about as good of protection as one could expect such armor to provide.
Also, in terms of Molec v. Dante, I'm reminded of the Fire Emblem weapon triangle. Axes beat spears and polearms, which beat swords, which beat axes.
Basically, Dante wins because Fire Emblem told me so. Also Grimnar for the same reason. Calgar is outside the weapon triangle, which makes things tough.
Of course, that would also mean Draigo loses because he has a sword, and we all know Matt Ward would never allow that.
AA and termie armor offer the same protection. AA is admantium-reinforced PA whereas termie is extra ceramite and bulk, with a power field generator as opposed to the "backpack" generator. it gives them the inovuln
it does
this is true
Boxing gloves always win
HERESY! Draigo never fails!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Niexist wrote: Gabriel Angelos is the clear winner over the two clowns Moloch, and Dante. They're both forced to fight him bare-handed due to "gifting" all the sacred weapons from the blood angels, and minotaur chapter the night before their battle.
Gabriel Angelos is the clear winner over the two clowns Moloch, and Dante. They're both forced to fight him bare-handed due to "gifting" all the sacred weapons from the blood angels, and minotaur chapter the night before their battle.
Niexist wrote: Gabriel Angelos is the clear winner over the two clowns Moloch, and Dante. They're both forced to fight him bare-handed due to "gifting" all the sacred weapons from the blood angels, and minotaur chapter the night before their battle.
But they didn't see Creed infiltrating the Warlord inside of the arena
Niexist wrote: Gabriel Angelos is the clear winner over the two clowns Moloch, and Dante. They're both forced to fight him bare-handed due to "gifting" all the sacred weapons from the blood angels, and minotaur chapter the night before their battle.
But they didn't see Creed infiltrating the Warlord inside of the arena
But Angelos might have a chance against Pedro.
Lucarikx
Nooooo... the arena is on the shoulder of a warlord titan
Azrael has the protection of the watchers in the dark therefore no harm will ever come to him as the watchers wont permit it. Azrael>pretty much anyone except for maybe the lion /discussion
Niexist wrote: Gabriel Angelos is the clear winner over the two clowns Moloch, and Dante. They're both forced to fight him bare-handed due to "gifting" all the sacred weapons from the blood angels, and minotaur chapter the night before their battle.
But they didn't see Creed infiltrating the Warlord inside of the arena
But Angelos might have a chance against Pedro.
Lucarikx
Nooooo... the arena is on the shoulder of a warlord titan
Niexist wrote: Gabriel Angelos is the clear winner over the two clowns Moloch, and Dante. They're both forced to fight him bare-handed due to "gifting" all the sacred weapons from the blood angels, and minotaur chapter the night before their battle.
But they didn't see Creed infiltrating the Warlord inside of the arena
But Angelos might have a chance against Pedro.
Lucarikx
Nooooo... the arena is on the shoulder of a warlord titan
Orbital bombardment lol
Moloc has infinite funding of the high lords of Terra, he is like a space marine batman minus the intelligence. He would use his Molocorang and the asterion grapple gun lol
Automatically Appended Next Post: Il'l tell you what I've played all the dawn of war's a dozen times and ill give credit where credit is due Gabriel is one bad mamma jamma!
Automatically Appended Next Post: To be honest all the CM's are some bad mamma jamma's look about the whole Dante Moloc thing let's agree to disagree and say they would both be killed by some one else ok we have both made valid points and both of us have down played our points, but you must agree the winner of this brawl would not be either of our CM's.
Azreal.......because he is an Unforgiven at heart and would call upon the Chaos Gods for the last line of defense.....not to mention you would be fighting his Watcher of the Dark too LMAO
Malik_Raynor wrote: Azreal.......because he is an Unforgiven at heart and would call upon the Chaos Gods for the last line of defense.....not to mention you would be fighting his Watcher of the Dark too LMAO
I have there codex, but I have not read it what is this watcher you speak of?
Malik_Raynor wrote: Azreal.......because he is an Unforgiven at heart and would call upon the Chaos Gods for the last line of defense.....not to mention you would be fighting his Watcher of the Dark too LMAO
I have there codex, but I have not read it what is this watcher you speak of?
the watchers in the dark are the little guys in robes that look like jawas. they are of unknown origin but if you read descent of angels and fallen angels you can infer
Spoiler:
that they are sent there to protect the planet from an evil psychic force that inhabits the planet which causes all the great beasts the order hunts. they are beings of pure psychic enegry.
Malik_Raynor wrote: Azreal.......because he is an Unforgiven at heart and would call upon the Chaos Gods for the last line of defense.....not to mention you would be fighting his Watcher of the Dark too LMAO
I have there codex, but I have not read it what is this watcher you speak of?
the watchers in the dark are the little guys in robes that look like jawas. they are of unknown origin but if you read descent of angels and fallen angels you can infer
Spoiler:
that they are sent there to protect the planet from an evil psychic force that inhabits the planet which causes all the great beasts the order hunts. they are beings of pure psychic enegry.
Malik_Raynor wrote: Azreal.......because he is an Unforgiven at heart and would call upon the Chaos Gods for the last line of defense.....not to mention you would be fighting his Watcher of the Dark too LMAO
I have there codex, but I have not read it what is this watcher you speak of?
the watchers in the dark are the little guys in robes that look like jawas. they are of unknown origin but if you read descent of angels and fallen angels you can infer
Spoiler:
that they are sent there to protect the planet from an evil psychic force that inhabits the planet which causes all the great beasts the order hunts. they are beings of pure psychic enegry.
Have you not read this thread????? you must provide 37 sources of fluff that say how kahn would win. THEN I will fill 8 pages of posts telling you that he wont because he, AS A CHAPTER MASTER, has not learned to work in his armor therefore would automatically loose because his weapon sucks and over the centuries has not adapted to his style of combat.
And after all of that I will mathhammer you into believing I am right because aparently mathhammer is important in a fluff based conversation as well as on the TT
Have you not read this thread????? you must provide 37 sources of fluff that say how kahn would win. THEN I will fill 8 pages of posts telling you that he wont because he, AS A CHAPTER MASTER, has not learned to work in his armor therefore would automatically loose because his weapon sucks and over the centuries has not adapted to his style of combat.
And after all of that I will mathhammer you into believing I am right because aparently mathhammer is important in a fluff based conversation as well as on the TT
LMAO wow Nami you hit it right on the head, you seem really down to earth man good stuff Im over here deployed in frekkin turkey hating life. Sadly this forum has been the most interaction ive had with the outside world in almost a year.
Niexist wrote: They exert a psychic field on the tabletop, and cannon be targetted or attacked, and when azrael gets hurt they drag him off the battlefield.
Thats just because they dont want to get involved. If they were involved they would have LD12 and 50000 warp charges and know ever psychic ability ever thought of as well as a 1++ just for being a gangster. Also deny the witch on a 2+
Have you not read this thread????? you must provide 37 sources of fluff that say how kahn would win. THEN I will fill 8 pages of posts telling you that he wont because he, AS A CHAPTER MASTER, has not learned to work in his armor therefore would automatically loose because his weapon sucks and over the centuries has not adapted to his style of combat.
And after all of that I will mathhammer you into believing I am right because aparently mathhammer is important in a fluff based conversation as well as on the TT
LMAO wow Nami you hit it right on the head, you seem really down to earth man good stuff Im over here deployed in frekkin turkey hating life. Sadly this forum has been the most interaction ive had with the outside world in almost a year.
Turkey is beautiful. Hit up marmaris. Might still be nice this time of year. End of the tourist season
Niexist wrote: They exert a psychic field on the tabletop, and cannon be targetted or attacked, and when azrael gets hurt they drag him off the battlefield.
Did anyone ever do that barcket thing not using mathhammer?
I did. Helbrecht won, because he's the guy I'm rooting for.
touche
I used to play Black Templars I know its off topic but I must ask how do you feel about your codex getting melded?
Don't mind being melded, but I mind the fact that it looks like they punched the CC out of us and more or less forced us to go (or stay I suppose) shooty for another edition (at least!).
Niexist wrote: They exert a psychic field on the tabletop, and cannon be targetted or attacked, and when azrael gets hurt they drag him off the battlefield.
Niexist wrote: They exert a psychic field on the tabletop, and cannon be targetted or attacked, and when azrael gets hurt they drag him off the battlefield.
Thats just because they dont want to get involved. If they were involved they would have LD12 and 50000 warp charges and know ever psychic ability ever thought of as well as a 1++ just for being a gangster. Also deny the witch on a 2+
Have you not read this thread????? you must provide 37 sources of fluff that say how kahn would win. THEN I will fill 8 pages of posts telling you that he wont because he, AS A CHAPTER MASTER, has not learned to work in his armor therefore would automatically loose because his weapon sucks and over the centuries has not adapted to his style of combat.
And after all of that I will mathhammer you into believing I am right because aparently mathhammer is important in a fluff based conversation as well as on the TT
LMAO wow Nami you hit it right on the head, you seem really down to earth man good stuff Im over here deployed in frekkin turkey hating life. Sadly this forum has been the most interaction ive had with the outside world in almost a year.
Turkey is beautiful. Hit up marmaris. Might still be nice this time of year. End of the tourist season
Id love to bud but cant go anywhere stuck on post all day everyday, gak were not even allowed to wear civilian clothes.
Niexist wrote: They exert a psychic field on the tabletop, and cannon be targetted or attacked, and when azrael gets hurt they drag him off the battlefield.
Niexist wrote: They exert a psychic field on the tabletop, and cannon be targetted or attacked, and when azrael gets hurt they drag him off the battlefield.
Thats just because they dont want to get involved. If they were involved they would have LD12 and 50000 warp charges and know ever psychic ability ever thought of as well as a 1++ just for being a gangster. Also deny the witch on a 2+
Have you not read this thread????? you must provide 37 sources of fluff that say how kahn would win. THEN I will fill 8 pages of posts telling you that he wont because he, AS A CHAPTER MASTER, has not learned to work in his armor therefore would automatically loose because his weapon sucks and over the centuries has not adapted to his style of combat.
And after all of that I will mathhammer you into believing I am right because aparently mathhammer is important in a fluff based conversation as well as on the TT
LMAO wow Nami you hit it right on the head, you seem really down to earth man good stuff Im over here deployed in frekkin turkey hating life. Sadly this forum has been the most interaction ive had with the outside world in almost a year.
Turkey is beautiful. Hit up marmaris. Might still be nice this time of year. End of the tourist season
Id love to bud but cant go anywhere stuck on post all day everyday, gak were not even allowed to wear civilian clothes.
Well that gives you a great chance to gather all of the needed information for the chapter master battle royal. Im at work and these work computers block a lot of things. This must be decided. I have 5 hours before I leave.
Did anyone ever do that barcket thing not using mathhammer?
I did. Helbrecht won, because he's the guy I'm rooting for.
touche
I used to play Black Templars I know its off topic but I must ask how do you feel about your codex getting melded?
Don't mind being melded, but I mind the fact that it looks like they punched the CC out of us and more or less forced us to go (or stay I suppose) shooty for another edition (at least!).
Yeah I used to run a scary list a crusader with 7 LC termies, with a chaplian, and furious charge (re-roll hits, and wounds, and plus one too strength, and initiative nothing would survive
Niexist wrote: They exert a psychic field on the tabletop, and cannon be targetted or attacked, and when azrael gets hurt they drag him off the battlefield.
Thats just because they dont want to get involved. If they were involved they would have LD12 and 50000 warp charges and know ever psychic ability ever thought of as well as a 1++ just for being a gangster. Also deny the witch on a 2+
Have you not read this thread????? you must provide 37 sources of fluff that say how kahn would win. THEN I will fill 8 pages of posts telling you that he wont because he, AS A CHAPTER MASTER, has not learned to work in his armor therefore would automatically loose because his weapon sucks and over the centuries has not adapted to his style of combat.
And after all of that I will mathhammer you into believing I am right because aparently mathhammer is important in a fluff based conversation as well as on the TT
LMAO wow Nami you hit it right on the head, you seem really down to earth man good stuff Im over here deployed in frekkin turkey hating life. Sadly this forum has been the most interaction ive had with the outside world in almost a year.
Turkey is beautiful. Hit up marmaris. Might still be nice this time of year. End of the tourist season
Id love to bud but cant go anywhere stuck on post all day everyday, gak were not even allowed to wear civilian clothes.
Well that gives you a great chance to gather all of the needed information for the chapter master battle royal. Im at work and these work computers block a lot of things. This must be decided. I have 5 hours before I leave.
There is ALWAYS a way off base. Trust me
Normally I would agree with you but were on a turkish base and those guys are pretty serious leave base at your own risk lol, ok i'll start gathering everything i can alright
I voted for Calgar mainly because I figure he would be smart enough to work a plan with 3 or 4 others to take out all the major threats and then the last of them could battle it out and I think he would be the victor.
anonymou5 wrote: Kuwait, Turkey? Those aren't deployments, I think I hate you guys. haha.
Im Air Defense man im not under dillusions of granduer I know this aint no darn deployment crap there not even giving us patches those rat bastards lol
Niexist wrote: If it is half melee, then Belial with his fleshbane sword of silence would be a good stand-in for Azrael if the watcher in the dark can't play.
No no lol If you have a CM he's fighting its not our fault he sucks lol
Niexist wrote: If it is half melee, then Belial with his fleshbane sword of silence would be a good stand-in for Azrael if the watcher in the dark can't play.
No no lol If you have a CM he's fighting its not our fault he sucks lol
azrael is a gangster. Dont be fooled because GW hates the dark angels
Niexist wrote: If it is half melee, then Belial with his fleshbane sword of silence would be a good stand-in for Azrael if the watcher in the dark can't play.
No no lol If you have a CM he's fighting its not our fault he sucks lol
azrael is a gangster. Dont be fooled because GW hates the dark angels
I will agree his TT in no way matches up to his fluff.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hate to do this guys but i gotta bed down ill see you all tomorrow!!
Dante would have to win. Even if he was about to loose the Sanguinor would just fly in a Faceroll his enemies.
But in all seriousness. We are talking about asuming this was real life who would win. You all are including rules from the game.
Calgar may be a good fighter but he's a tactical genius not a CC genius. Almost all of the Ultra Marines fluff is based on his tactical use of his army not so much in the actual fighting he does.
bigboss1o1 wrote: First of all I ran the two of them face to face already with real dice not some digital crap Moloc won 4/6 and second of all READ FIRST POST!
Well good for you. My friend and I did the same and Dante won 2 games to 1.
bigboss1o1 wrote: First of all I ran the two of them face to face already with real dice not some digital crap Moloc won 4/6 and second of all READ FIRST POST!
And we're done. Thanks for playing folks!
He probably forgot that Dante nerfs him and was using his full stats for Moloc.
Sasa0mg wrote: I think Moloc's armor is hinged quite well he's definitely a lot more menueverable judging by his model and art work then any other terminator armor I've seen I don't see why he wouldn't be able to move himself as he needed to be. And no I was meaning that the spear thrust would just ultimately be lower if need be but I think his armor allows for just as good bodily rotations and movements then regular space marine armor. As again some of the most formidable (highest WS characters) are featured in power armor so it can't be cumbersome to the point of causing any real degree of hindrance as far as bodily movements goes.
Also the point of power armor is to strengthen the bodies movements the fact the spear is a relic blade combined with the terminator armor and the fact that if your saying dante is descending upon him there would be enough accumulative force in place to see the thrust hit home with considerable enough force to kill.
And if your problem is with the him not being able to react in terminator armor either way I have to remind you that Dante isn't a dark eldar witch at this point, he's not simply going to ninja himself around fast enough to overwhelm him, nor is that jump pack silent enough to disguise what he's doing at any point either so he would know full well what was going on.
It wouldnt be more maneuverable than Power armor, although he would be more maneuverable than any TDA out there. Still wont be able to draw back. Also, as its a brawl youd know your opponent is there, im saying if he deflects an axe strike (and the shield holds up) he would be slower to push Dante off and make a good thrust than dante would be to get out of attack range. Lets also remember axes are very good at destroying shields, so theres that. I agree if dante were diving straight down it would be laughably easy for moloc to kebab him, but in a brawl youre face to face, and Dante isnt stupid enough do dive headfirst at an opponent. Im also not saying he wont react, im saying he'd be slower than dante. Dante is no witch but fluff wise against an enemy in more cumbersome armor (be honest, termie armor no matter how well made would be more cumbersome than PA) he would be slightly faster. Enough to give him an edge.
Im sorry I do not care what the fluff says or how strong he is, he is not doing any kind of dancing with that Volkswagon beetle on his back i see him being just as if not more cumbersome then termie armor and the fact that im pretty sure his visual left and right limits are greatly hindered with that rediculous ornate helmet I mean Im just saying.
This response right here says it all. He doesn't care about the table top results and he doesn't care about what the fluff says. He has no basis now for any of his arguments.
Lobukia wrote: I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer
If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.
I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.
Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.
Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.
mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2
The we'll say two since statistically it's 2 wounds four out of every five fights.
Lucarikx wrote: Wow, first time I've seen anyone disregard Mathhammer.
Remember, Mathhammer does average results, so you can expect what happens when you roll the dice.
Still can't believe how people disregard MathHammer as "crap".
Lucarikx
Also, whats the point of doing brackets, Bigboss, if you don't count TT?
Sorry i took a break, i see the troll is still well fed. As for brackets, if we are calling it on fluff again, no point. Plus, 3 wouldnt be an accurate number. If i flip a coin 3 times and get all heads that means little. Now i flip a coin 1,000 times and get all heads i more than likely have a double-headed coin.
Lucarikx wrote: Y'know, on the TT the Death Mask doesn't care if you have Fearless or not.
Also, weapon skill doesn't depend on maneuverability as much as does on the martial prowess of the character - meaning a nimble eldar civilian won't have a higher weapon skill than say a Dreadnought.
Unless you have it in front of you, a SS doesn't do a thing if you have a melta aimed at your face.
The Spear relies on jabbing actions to be dangerous. You can swing an Axe around and land hits something in swifter motions.
Pff... If you get hit repeatedly in soft mesh and get your leg amputated you won't be fighting much longer.
Do we have any fluff evidence of Moloc killing ANYONE important in single combat? He knows how to insult people, and thats really about it......
Lucarikx
yes on the TT is guess what irrelevant and yet again you have given NO proof whatsoever that says terminator armor prevents you from thrusting a spear which i think is the most desperate defense you guys have with NOTHING to back it up, and no sorry your are wrong bub the WS is his effectiveness in close combat its not the prowess of anything and effectiveness relies on what your ability to use your weapon which goes hand in hand with what??? maneuverability wow! soo i repeat since you have no logical proof to substantiate any of your desperate claims to victory aside from well......nothing and im not going to sift through my badab books but no most people he fights run in fear even a necron lord.
Dude, read my post again. I said maneuverability was a part of it, but the skill is whats most important. Also, I never said TDA prevents you from using a spear..... I just said theres only 1 real way a using a spear in combat.
Go read about your weapons a bit more, there's a good reason why spears are less efficient than axes.
Go read Moloc's Lexicanum article, he got his a$$ kicked my Maktlan Kutlakh, the Necron Lord of the Maynark Dynasty, who promptly vented Moloc into space after nearly killing him.
If he killed some nameless Necron Lord, good for him. If you aren't familiar with the Necron hierarchy, Necron lords are like advisers to the Overlords, who command the Dynasties.
Lucarikx
instead of reading lexicanum read Imperial armour volume 12 in which his termies die his contempter buddy dies and muktlan gets speared and on his retreat vents moloc, moloc does not get a scratch from muktlan
So moloc not only DIDNT kill his enemy but let him get away AND was fool enough to get vented while fully functional? hows this guy still a CM?
really cus last I checked Skarbrands still alive soo what does that say about Dante?
Duh!!!!! Daemons never truly die, they just get sent back to the warp, but they can come back again. Same thing would happen if Moloc killed a daemon.
bigboss1o1 wrote: First of all I ran the two of them face to face already with real dice not some digital crap Moloc won 4/6 and second of all READ FIRST POST!
Well good for you. My friend and I did the same and Dante won 2 games to 1.
bigboss1o1 wrote: First of all I ran the two of them face to face already with real dice not some digital crap Moloc won 4/6 and second of all READ FIRST POST!
And we're done. Thanks for playing folks!
He probably forgot that Dante nerfs him and was using his full stats for Moloc.
Sasa0mg wrote: I think Moloc's armor is hinged quite well he's definitely a lot more menueverable judging by his model and art work then any other terminator armor I've seen I don't see why he wouldn't be able to move himself as he needed to be. And no I was meaning that the spear thrust would just ultimately be lower if need be but I think his armor allows for just as good bodily rotations and movements then regular space marine armor. As again some of the most formidable (highest WS characters) are featured in power armor so it can't be cumbersome to the point of causing any real degree of hindrance as far as bodily movements goes.
Also the point of power armor is to strengthen the bodies movements the fact the spear is a relic blade combined with the terminator armor and the fact that if your saying dante is descending upon him there would be enough accumulative force in place to see the thrust hit home with considerable enough force to kill.
And if your problem is with the him not being able to react in terminator armor either way I have to remind you that Dante isn't a dark eldar witch at this point, he's not simply going to ninja himself around fast enough to overwhelm him, nor is that jump pack silent enough to disguise what he's doing at any point either so he would know full well what was going on.
It wouldnt be more maneuverable than Power armor, although he would be more maneuverable than any TDA out there. Still wont be able to draw back. Also, as its a brawl youd know your opponent is there, im saying if he deflects an axe strike (and the shield holds up) he would be slower to push Dante off and make a good thrust than dante would be to get out of attack range. Lets also remember axes are very good at destroying shields, so theres that. I agree if dante were diving straight down it would be laughably easy for moloc to kebab him, but in a brawl youre face to face, and Dante isnt stupid enough do dive headfirst at an opponent. Im also not saying he wont react, im saying he'd be slower than dante. Dante is no witch but fluff wise against an enemy in more cumbersome armor (be honest, termie armor no matter how well made would be more cumbersome than PA) he would be slightly faster. Enough to give him an edge.
Im sorry I do not care what the fluff says or how strong he is, he is not doing any kind of dancing with that Volkswagon beetle on his back i see him being just as if not more cumbersome then termie armor and the fact that im pretty sure his visual left and right limits are greatly hindered with that rediculous ornate helmet I mean Im just saying.
This response right here says it all. He doesn't care about the table top results and he doesn't care about what the fluff says. He has no basis now for any of his arguments.
Lobukia wrote: I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer
If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.
I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.
Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.
Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.
mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2
The we'll say two since statistically it's 2 wounds four out of every five fights.
Lucarikx wrote: Wow, first time I've seen anyone disregard Mathhammer.
Remember, Mathhammer does average results, so you can expect what happens when you roll the dice.
Still can't believe how people disregard MathHammer as "crap".
Lucarikx
Also, whats the point of doing brackets, Bigboss, if you don't count TT?
Sorry i took a break, i see the troll is still well fed. As for brackets, if we are calling it on fluff again, no point. Plus, 3 wouldnt be an accurate number. If i flip a coin 3 times and get all heads that means little. Now i flip a coin 1,000 times and get all heads i more than likely have a double-headed coin.
Lucarikx wrote: Y'know, on the TT the Death Mask doesn't care if you have Fearless or not.
Also, weapon skill doesn't depend on maneuverability as much as does on the martial prowess of the character - meaning a nimble eldar civilian won't have a higher weapon skill than say a Dreadnought.
Unless you have it in front of you, a SS doesn't do a thing if you have a melta aimed at your face.
The Spear relies on jabbing actions to be dangerous. You can swing an Axe around and land hits something in swifter motions.
Pff... If you get hit repeatedly in soft mesh and get your leg amputated you won't be fighting much longer.
Do we have any fluff evidence of Moloc killing ANYONE important in single combat? He knows how to insult people, and thats really about it......
Lucarikx
yes on the TT is guess what irrelevant and yet again you have given NO proof whatsoever that says terminator armor prevents you from thrusting a spear which i think is the most desperate defense you guys have with NOTHING to back it up, and no sorry your are wrong bub the WS is his effectiveness in close combat its not the prowess of anything and effectiveness relies on what your ability to use your weapon which goes hand in hand with what??? maneuverability wow! soo i repeat since you have no logical proof to substantiate any of your desperate claims to victory aside from well......nothing and im not going to sift through my badab books but no most people he fights run in fear even a necron lord.
Dude, read my post again. I said maneuverability was a part of it, but the skill is whats most important. Also, I never said TDA prevents you from using a spear..... I just said theres only 1 real way a using a spear in combat.
Go read about your weapons a bit more, there's a good reason why spears are less efficient than axes.
Go read Moloc's Lexicanum article, he got his a$$ kicked my Maktlan Kutlakh, the Necron Lord of the Maynark Dynasty, who promptly vented Moloc into space after nearly killing him.
If he killed some nameless Necron Lord, good for him. If you aren't familiar with the Necron hierarchy, Necron lords are like advisers to the Overlords, who command the Dynasties.
Lucarikx
instead of reading lexicanum read Imperial armour volume 12 in which his termies die his contempter buddy dies and muktlan gets speared and on his retreat vents moloc, moloc does not get a scratch from muktlan
So moloc not only DIDNT kill his enemy but let him get away AND was fool enough to get vented while fully functional? hows this guy still a CM?
really cus last I checked Skarbrands still alive soo what does that say about Dante?
Duh!!!!! Daemons never truly die, they just get sent back to the warp, but they can come back again. Same thing would happen if Moloc killed a daemon.
Wow just when I thought the Dante fanclub trolls were all gone, man this forum was finally becoming fun.
bigboss1o1 wrote: First of all I ran the two of them face to face already with real dice not some digital crap Moloc won 4/6 and second of all READ FIRST POST!
Well good for you. My friend and I did the same and Dante won 2 games to 1.
bigboss1o1 wrote: First of all I ran the two of them face to face already with real dice not some digital crap Moloc won 4/6 and second of all READ FIRST POST!
And we're done. Thanks for playing folks!
He probably forgot that Dante nerfs him and was using his full stats for Moloc.
Sasa0mg wrote: I think Moloc's armor is hinged quite well he's definitely a lot more menueverable judging by his model and art work then any other terminator armor I've seen I don't see why he wouldn't be able to move himself as he needed to be. And no I was meaning that the spear thrust would just ultimately be lower if need be but I think his armor allows for just as good bodily rotations and movements then regular space marine armor. As again some of the most formidable (highest WS characters) are featured in power armor so it can't be cumbersome to the point of causing any real degree of hindrance as far as bodily movements goes.
Also the point of power armor is to strengthen the bodies movements the fact the spear is a relic blade combined with the terminator armor and the fact that if your saying dante is descending upon him there would be enough accumulative force in place to see the thrust hit home with considerable enough force to kill.
And if your problem is with the him not being able to react in terminator armor either way I have to remind you that Dante isn't a dark eldar witch at this point, he's not simply going to ninja himself around fast enough to overwhelm him, nor is that jump pack silent enough to disguise what he's doing at any point either so he would know full well what was going on.
It wouldnt be more maneuverable than Power armor, although he would be more maneuverable than any TDA out there. Still wont be able to draw back. Also, as its a brawl youd know your opponent is there, im saying if he deflects an axe strike (and the shield holds up) he would be slower to push Dante off and make a good thrust than dante would be to get out of attack range. Lets also remember axes are very good at destroying shields, so theres that. I agree if dante were diving straight down it would be laughably easy for moloc to kebab him, but in a brawl youre face to face, and Dante isnt stupid enough do dive headfirst at an opponent. Im also not saying he wont react, im saying he'd be slower than dante. Dante is no witch but fluff wise against an enemy in more cumbersome armor (be honest, termie armor no matter how well made would be more cumbersome than PA) he would be slightly faster. Enough to give him an edge.
Im sorry I do not care what the fluff says or how strong he is, he is not doing any kind of dancing with that Volkswagon beetle on his back i see him being just as if not more cumbersome then termie armor and the fact that im pretty sure his visual left and right limits are greatly hindered with that rediculous ornate helmet I mean Im just saying.
This response right here says it all. He doesn't care about the table top results and he doesn't care about what the fluff says. He has no basis now for any of his arguments.
Lobukia wrote: I know its not the thrust of the argument... but here's Logan's Mathhammer
If he charges, he does 1.8 wounds on the charge, and Moloc gets his .851. Round 2 its 1.3 more for Logan... so end of two rounds its Moloc having taken 3.1 and Logan 1.7. End of third phase, dead Moloc and Logan's taken 2.553.
I might add, that I'm comfortable in saying Logan should have 4 wounds instead of 3, which makes this even more one sided if Logan charges.
Give Moloc the charge makes it close, Logan takes 2.836, but he'll take it before Moloc drops, so even odds that he's not around to hit back and kill Moloc.
Logan charges, he wins. Moloc charges, its a tossup. But again, I see no reason that Logan shouldn't have the CM statline improvement, giving him +1 wound. If you think that's fair, then Moloc loses to Logan either way.
mathhammer is crap. Just roll some dice. 1.8 wounds means crap. One can not loose 1.8 wounds its either 1 or 2
The we'll say two since statistically it's 2 wounds four out of every five fights.
Lucarikx wrote: Wow, first time I've seen anyone disregard Mathhammer.
Remember, Mathhammer does average results, so you can expect what happens when you roll the dice.
Still can't believe how people disregard MathHammer as "crap".
Lucarikx
Also, whats the point of doing brackets, Bigboss, if you don't count TT?
Sorry i took a break, i see the troll is still well fed. As for brackets, if we are calling it on fluff again, no point. Plus, 3 wouldnt be an accurate number. If i flip a coin 3 times and get all heads that means little. Now i flip a coin 1,000 times and get all heads i more than likely have a double-headed coin.
Lucarikx wrote: Y'know, on the TT the Death Mask doesn't care if you have Fearless or not.
Also, weapon skill doesn't depend on maneuverability as much as does on the martial prowess of the character - meaning a nimble eldar civilian won't have a higher weapon skill than say a Dreadnought.
Unless you have it in front of you, a SS doesn't do a thing if you have a melta aimed at your face.
The Spear relies on jabbing actions to be dangerous. You can swing an Axe around and land hits something in swifter motions.
Pff... If you get hit repeatedly in soft mesh and get your leg amputated you won't be fighting much longer.
Do we have any fluff evidence of Moloc killing ANYONE important in single combat? He knows how to insult people, and thats really about it......
Lucarikx
yes on the TT is guess what irrelevant and yet again you have given NO proof whatsoever that says terminator armor prevents you from thrusting a spear which i think is the most desperate defense you guys have with NOTHING to back it up, and no sorry your are wrong bub the WS is his effectiveness in close combat its not the prowess of anything and effectiveness relies on what your ability to use your weapon which goes hand in hand with what??? maneuverability wow! soo i repeat since you have no logical proof to substantiate any of your desperate claims to victory aside from well......nothing and im not going to sift through my badab books but no most people he fights run in fear even a necron lord.
Dude, read my post again. I said maneuverability was a part of it, but the skill is whats most important. Also, I never said TDA prevents you from using a spear..... I just said theres only 1 real way a using a spear in combat.
Go read about your weapons a bit more, there's a good reason why spears are less efficient than axes.
Go read Moloc's Lexicanum article, he got his a$$ kicked my Maktlan Kutlakh, the Necron Lord of the Maynark Dynasty, who promptly vented Moloc into space after nearly killing him.
If he killed some nameless Necron Lord, good for him. If you aren't familiar with the Necron hierarchy, Necron lords are like advisers to the Overlords, who command the Dynasties.
Lucarikx
instead of reading lexicanum read Imperial armour volume 12 in which his termies die his contempter buddy dies and muktlan gets speared and on his retreat vents moloc, moloc does not get a scratch from muktlan
So moloc not only DIDNT kill his enemy but let him get away AND was fool enough to get vented while fully functional? hows this guy still a CM?
really cus last I checked Skarbrands still alive soo what does that say about Dante?
Duh!!!!! Daemons never truly die, they just get sent back to the warp, but they can come back again. Same thing would happen if Moloc killed a daemon.
Wow just when I thought the Dante fanclub trolls were all gone, man this forum was finally becoming fun.
2 things: Pot calling the kettle black? I'm not a Dante fanboi at all. I've ran BA twice in all my matches (I've played a few, see my sig). But you guys can't see that you're probably more dug in on Moloc than the rest of the "fanclab" is on Dante.
Second: see that trick with the spoilers, if you feel some odd compulsion to quote an entire conversation that was an entire post before yours, do we really need to put the entire wall of text up everytime? To all parties: just quote the relevant part or put it in spoiler tags, it's really inconsiderate and kinda "forum rude" to repost entire conversations just for a few sentences in reply.
Wow just when I thought the Dante fanclub trolls were all gone, man this forum was finally becoming fun.
Hate to tell you mate, but you're the last person who should be calling out people for being fanclub trolls.
Not that I don't agree with you, that post was awful, but you really don't have any moral high ground to come from here.
Sorry you call me a troll for defending something that makes sense, well I guess I need to research the definition of a troll?
Honestly stop with all this he's a troll crap we have been having fun in this forum ever since the Dantites left soo please dont bring it back you want to claim his victory cool go for it, but dont feed me all this bullcrap, delusional, reasons.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ZebioLizard2 wrote: Is there any actual proof to the skarbrand thing though? I mean it says it's a potential myth and that he killed him in one hit..
I mean I know everyone harps on Draigo for cutting down a primarch, but Skarbrand used to be Khornes near number 1 general bloodthirster.
Draigo has been slowly creeping up in the polls he's definitely a tough cookie.
Wow just when I thought the Dante fanclub trolls were all gone, man this forum was finally becoming fun.
Hate to tell you mate, but you're the last person who should be calling out people for being fanclub trolls.
Not that I don't agree with you, that post was awful, but you really don't have any moral high ground to come from here.
Sorry you call me a troll for defending something that makes sense, well I guess I need to research the definition of a troll?
Honestly stop with all this he's a troll crap we have been having fun in this forum ever since the Dantites left soo please dont bring it back you want to claim his victory cool go for it, but dont feed me all this bullcrap, delusional, reasons.
Look, you're the one who dismissed basic statistics as inaccurate. You really do need to take a step back and think about what you're doing in this thread, because it's borderline crazy.
Wow just when I thought the Dante fanclub trolls were all gone, man this forum was finally becoming fun.
Hate to tell you mate, but you're the last person who should be calling out people for being fanclub trolls.
Not that I don't agree with you, that post was awful, but you really don't have any moral high ground to come from here.
Sorry you call me a troll for defending something that makes sense, well I guess I need to research the definition of a troll?
Honestly stop with all this he's a troll crap we have been having fun in this forum ever since the Dantites left soo please dont bring it back you want to claim his victory cool go for it, but dont feed me all this bullcrap, delusional, reasons.
Look, you're the one who dismissed basic statistics as inaccurate. You really do need to take a step back and think about what you're doing in this thread, because it's borderline crazy.
Look, basic statistics really? saying that a chapter master with a specific weapon cant win because supposedly its impossible to use said weapon efficiantly even though he's been using it for over 500 years? Look go home your drunk, take a step back and go feed you statistics to someone else alright have a nice day.
Wow just when I thought the Dante fanclub trolls were all gone, man this forum was finally becoming fun.
Hate to tell you mate, but you're the last person who should be calling out people for being fanclub trolls.
Not that I don't agree with you, that post was awful, but you really don't have any moral high ground to come from here.
Sorry you call me a troll for defending something that makes sense, well I guess I need to research the definition of a troll?
Honestly stop with all this he's a troll crap we have been having fun in this forum ever since the Dantites left soo please dont bring it back you want to claim his victory cool go for it, but dont feed me all this bullcrap, delusional, reasons.
Look, you're the one who dismissed basic statistics as inaccurate. You really do need to take a step back and think about what you're doing in this thread, because it's borderline crazy.
Look, basic statistics really? saying that a chapter master with a specific weapon cant win because supposedly its impossible to use said weapon efficiantly even though he's been using it for over 500 years? Look go home your drunk, take a step back and go feed you statistics to someone else alright have a nice day.
Case in point. You're trying to dismiss something you clearly have no understanding of. Besides (as has been pointed out several times in the thread already) you keep switching between wanting to argue fluff and wanting to include tabletop stats and rules. Tabletop-wise Moloc just doesn't win often enough to be a viable contender for "best", fluff-wise he's good but not the best.
Also let me point out i never said he wouldnt be able to use it. I said he wouldnt be able to use it in the most effective manner (a straight arm spear thrust) and provided reasons as to why. You then retorted that it wouldnt matter because dante would be too slow to avoid it or his axe (that hes used for 1100+ years) wouldnt be fast enough to strike him before he could bring his shield up. You also made an argument that if dante landed behind him Moloc would be able to easily turn around and block before Dante could strike with his axe, contrary to fluff which states that termie armor trades maneuverability for protection.
Thatguyhsagun wrote: Also let me point out i never said he wouldnt be able to use it. I said he wouldnt be able to use it in the most effective manner (a straight arm spear thrust) and provided reasons as to why. You then retorted that it wouldnt matter because dante would be too slow to avoid it or his axe (that hes used for 1100+ years) wouldnt be fast enough to strike him before he could bring his shield up. You also made an argument that if dante landed behind him Moloc would be able to easily turn around and block before Dante could strike with his axe, contrary to fluff which states that termie armor trades maneuverability for protection.
Look tabletop rules somewhat mirror fluff ok and a power axe is unwieldy no? Ok that aside considering you do not own a set of termie armor in your garage I say your arguement is invalid, and to think that a guy that gets his own custom termie armor made for him funded by the lords of terra without the capabilities to allow him to use his spear efficiantly is completely ignorant.
Wow just when I thought the Dante fanclub trolls were all gone, man this forum was finally becoming fun.
Hate to tell you mate, but you're the last person who should be calling out people for being fanclub trolls.
Not that I don't agree with you, that post was awful, but you really don't have any moral high ground to come from here.
Sorry you call me a troll for defending something that makes sense, well I guess I need to research the definition of a troll?
Honestly stop with all this he's a troll crap we have been having fun in this forum ever since the Dantites left soo please dont bring it back you want to claim his victory cool go for it, but dont feed me all this bullcrap, delusional, reasons.
Look, you're the one who dismissed basic statistics as inaccurate. You really do need to take a step back and think about what you're doing in this thread, because it's borderline crazy.
Look, basic statistics really? saying that a chapter master with a specific weapon cant win because supposedly its impossible to use said weapon efficiantly even though he's been using it for over 500 years? Look go home your drunk, take a step back and go feed you statistics to someone else alright have a nice day.
Case in point. You're trying to dismiss something you clearly have no understanding of. Besides (as has been pointed out several times in the thread already) you keep switching between wanting to argue fluff and wanting to include tabletop stats and rules. Tabletop-wise Moloc just doesn't win often enough to be a viable contender for "best", fluff-wise he's good but not the best.
And ive alredy said four times I know Moloc would not win but I know he would beat him, maybe not a flawless victory but to say a flying axe wielding barbarian cant beat a heavy armored spartan is crazy.
Thatguyhsagun wrote: Also let me point out i never said he wouldnt be able to use it. I said he wouldnt be able to use it in the most effective manner (a straight arm spear thrust) and provided reasons as to why. You then retorted that it wouldnt matter because dante would be too slow to avoid it or his axe (that hes used for 1100+ years) wouldnt be fast enough to strike him before he could bring his shield up. You also made an argument that if dante landed behind him Moloc would be able to easily turn around and block before Dante could strike with his axe, contrary to fluff which states that termie armor trades maneuverability for protection.
Look tabletop rules somewhat mirror fluff ok and a power axe is unwieldy no? Ok that aside considering you do not own a set of termie armor in your garage I say your arguement is invalid, and to think that a guy that gets his own custom termie armor made for him funded by the lords of terra without the capabilities to allow him to use his spear efficiantly is completely ignorant.
Wow just when I thought the Dante fanclub trolls were all gone, man this forum was finally becoming fun.
Hate to tell you mate, but you're the last person who should be calling out people for being fanclub trolls.
Not that I don't agree with you, that post was awful, but you really don't have any moral high ground to come from here.
Sorry you call me a troll for defending something that makes sense, well I guess I need to research the definition of a troll?
Honestly stop with all this he's a troll crap we have been having fun in this forum ever since the Dantites left soo please dont bring it back you want to claim his victory cool go for it, but dont feed me all this bullcrap, delusional, reasons.
Look, you're the one who dismissed basic statistics as inaccurate. You really do need to take a step back and think about what you're doing in this thread, because it's borderline crazy.
Look, basic statistics really? saying that a chapter master with a specific weapon cant win because supposedly its impossible to use said weapon efficiantly even though he's been using it for over 500 years? Look go home your drunk, take a step back and go feed you statistics to someone else alright have a nice day.
Case in point. You're trying to dismiss something you clearly have no understanding of. Besides (as has been pointed out several times in the thread already) you keep switching between wanting to argue fluff and wanting to include tabletop stats and rules. Tabletop-wise Moloc just doesn't win often enough to be a viable contender for "best", fluff-wise he's good but not the best.
And ive alredy said four times I know Moloc would not win but I know he would beat him, maybe not a flawless victory but to say a flying axe wielding barbarian cant beat a heavy armored spartan is crazy.
[/spoiler] Actually until 6th edition it was at initiative... It was marked unwieldy to make it less OP when 6th came out. A mace is slower than an axe but strikes at initiative because its only AP4, nobody would take it if it struck at I1, and he is no barbarian. That implies he doesnt plan nor does he have any grasp of martial prowess. He isnt a space wolf Blood Claw nor does he suffer from black rage/red thirst. He has been fighting over 1100 years im certain he knows what works and what doesnt
Wow just when I thought the Dante fanclub trolls were all gone, man this forum was finally becoming fun.
I don't think anyone is actually in the dante 'fanclub' - it was more that your posts read 'but MOLOC' to anything anybody said and forced people into the other corner.
Not that you're a Moloc fanclub troll or anything....
Weird - atm this poll is exactly how I thought it should go.
The big three of Calgar, Dante and Grimnar (in any order) - then the rest.
Wow just when I thought the Dante fanclub trolls were all gone, man this forum was finally becoming fun.
I don't think anyone is actually in the dante 'fanclub' - it was more that your posts read 'but MOLOC' to anything anybody said and forced people into the other corner.
Not that you're a Moloc fanclub troll or anything....
Weird - atm this poll is exactly how I thought it should go.
The big three of Calgar, Dante and Grimnar (in any order) - then the rest.
Yeah I assumed these same results I'm honestly surprised Moloc got as many votes as he did I mean I garuntee that barely anyone knows him, although Draigo is slowly creeping up lol.
Unfortunately the Watcher in the Dark hasn't been on the poll for long, so he has not had a chance for any votes.
Turning out like I expected as well. Calgar, Logan and Dante at top. Fluffwise I think any of those 3 take the top spot. If those 3 were to fight I think it would be a case of who was better on the day.
Unfortunately the Watcher in the Dark hasn't been on the poll for long, so he has not had a chance for any votes.
Turning out like I expected as well. Calgar, Logan and Dante at top. Fluffwise I think any of those 3 take the top spot. If those 3 were to fight I think it would be a case of who was better on the day.
Well dante would die horrendously if he gets wounded by either of the other opponents
Well dante would die horrendously if he gets wounded by either of the other opponents
tabletop wise, absolutely. Dantes lack of Eternal Warrior hurts quite badly. Calgar and Logan would just instant death him. However fluffwise I think the big 3 are really closely matched.
anyone have both sets of rules and enought time to work it out?
I did this calculation a while ago and from what I remember Logan barely wins, even when charged. If Calgar gets to kite first he takes the lead again.
anyone have both sets of rules and enought time to work it out?
\Logan. Sheer number of attacks at the same I step, both with AP2 and S8, both with a 4++. the only thing is logan only has 3 wounds doesnt he? with twice the number of attacks he should be able to take the cake
Well dante would die horrendously if he gets wounded by either of the other opponents
tabletop wise, absolutely. Dantes lack of Eternal Warrior hurts quite badly. Calgar and Logan would just instant death him. However fluffwise I think the big 3 are really closely matched.
anyone have both sets of rules and enought time to work it out?
I did this calculation a while ago and from what I remember Logan barely wins, even when charged. If Calgar gets to kite first he takes the lead again.
Thanks
So - Dante is the fluff king (atm in the poll) and Grimnar wins TT?
anyone have both sets of rules and enought time to work it out?
I did this calculation a while ago and from what I remember Logan barely wins, even when charged. If Calgar gets to kite first he takes the lead again.
Thanks
So - Dante is the fluff king (atm in the poll) and Grimnar wins TT?
Don't know if Abaddon ought to count as a CM, but he's king on the TT.
anyone have both sets of rules and enought time to work it out?
I did this calculation a while ago and from what I remember Logan barely wins, even when charged. If Calgar gets to kite first he takes the lead again.
Thanks
So - Dante is the fluff king (atm in the poll) and Grimnar wins TT?
Don't know if Abaddon ought to count as a CM, but he's king on the TT.
I don't see Abby as a CM, but I completely agree, he does killings better than any of the loyal chapter masters
(I think it was only the swarmlord and the DP with the BM that can take down Abby, but thats another discussion entirely)
If Calgar charges, does 2.074 wounds to Logan, who returns 2.498 (assuming everyone is all in with SAs). Next turn its 3.389 done by Calgar and 4.388 total done by Logan (they both kill the other at Init 1).
If Logan charges, and Calgars down one more wound, he fails his moral check and charges in on his turn (as I was giving Logan counterattack, nothing changes, the turns are flipped and they both kill each other in phase 2... Calgar actually does better as he gets an overwatch more than the above, but he's still just as dead, so its a non sequitar).
Well, it looks like in terms of the poll, Dante and Calgar have pulled away from the pack. Grimnar, Moloc, and Draigo make up the 2nd group. Azrael is sort of out there on his own, not quite with enough to be in the 2nd group, but not far enough back to be with the rest of the bunch.
