MrMoustaffa wrote: Well that's the problem with the whole doctrine thing, as well as the variety of regiments.
GW almost outright forbids conversions at this point. They still allow conversions to a degree, but they'll only showcase 100% GW parts, which leaves you with half fantasy empire IG, space marine scout kitbash IG, Tau kitbash IG, and... that's about it.
I have a feeling for us to see any chance on a return of doctrines and the "limitless types of regiments" being represented in rules, GW would have to relax it's stance on 3rd party bits. Many of the most iconic regiments can not be made any other way, and as we saw with the chapterhouse ordeal, GW would rather pull it's own teeth out than allow bitz companies to market conversion parts.
As much as I hate to say it, I would almost bet money that the next codex will focus even more heavily on Cadians (and maybe Catachans) than the last one. There will undoubtedly be mentions to the ranges covered by Forgeworld as well, but that will be about it.
If they allow doctrines back in, people would be expected to represent their "doctrines" through conversions. Even simple ones like allowing your regiment to take camo cloaks standard (to represent Tanith) or allowing all guardsmen to swap out las rifles for CCW/Pistol would require massive amounts of conversions that GW kits just don't provide. And rather than release bits kits or add the necessary parts, GW will probably just stay with what they already make, so that 3rd party companies can't get increased business. After all, if they don't make a camo cloak part, that money is just going to a "competitor" that can make the bit instead.
Its a problem that effects many armies though, I mean if you like tall space marines Scibor is amazing, if you like fancy orks then Kromlech is great. But it hurts Guard the most because there are so many historical, sci fi and modern models that are great for 40k.
I know they have to make money, but I think they need to do what battlefront does and your army has to be over 50% GW. Then I think we would see a flood of awesome models and a golden age of variety.
Swastakowey wrote: I know they have to make money, but I think they need to do what battlefront does and your army has to be over 50% GW. Then I think we would see a flood of awesome models and a golden age of variety.
Never going to happen though.
Realistically, GW aren't going to be making rules that encourage 3rd party miniatures and bits. Getting rid of metal means they can't do what they did back in the day and have models for half a dozen different IG flavours, and they sure as hell aren't going to be doing anything that makes people want to buy models from anywhere other than themselves.
Swastakowey wrote: I know they have to make money, but I think they need to do what battlefront does and your army has to be over 50% GW. Then I think we would see a flood of awesome models and a golden age of variety.
Never going to happen though.
Realistically, GW aren't going to be making rules that encourage 3rd party miniatures and bits. Getting rid of metal means they can't do what they did back in the day and have models for half a dozen different IG flavours, and they sure as hell aren't going to be doing anything that makes people want to buy models from anywhere other than themselves.
All it would take are a few mini boxes with torsos and heads or arms etc and bam, the world will be full of awesome guard and GW wont have to worry as much for 3rd party models.
Most IG players already have their armies and the new blood lack the funds to make a pure IG at current prices.
So "allowing" non-GW bits in their (Game)Days and (non)official tournaments without making new cool kits for IG would end up in scant additional money for GW and an increase in revenues for all the 3rd party manufacturers.
Probably GW will repackage the old Cadian sprues for the next codex and call it a day.
Swastakowey wrote: Its a problem that effects many armies though, I mean if you like tall space marines Scibor is amazing, if you like fancy orks then Kromlech is great. But it hurts Guard the most because there are so many historical, sci fi and modern models that are great for 40k.
I know they have to make money, but I think they need to do what battlefront does and your army has to be over 50% GW. Then I think we would see a flood of awesome models and a golden age of variety.
Why would anyone enforce this rule tho? GW doesn't provide support, nor do they provide anything else for organized play. There is absolutely no reason to impose any restrictions on players.
Most IG players already have their armies and the new blood lack the funds to make a pure IG at current prices.
So "allowing" non-GW bits in their (Game)Days and (non)official tournaments without making new cool kits for IG would end up in scant additional money for GW and an increase in revenues for all the 3rd party manufacturers.
Probably GW will repackage the old Cadian sprues for the next codex and call it a day.
M.
Most players had IG armies when they moved on to plastic Cadians and catachans, but like all new models they began to phase out the old models and so on, except with this set up people in theory will be buying more than just the replacement model. It would be an add on sale.
Swastakowey wrote: Its a problem that effects many armies though, I mean if you like tall space marines Scibor is amazing, if you like fancy orks then Kromlech is great. But it hurts Guard the most because there are so many historical, sci fi and modern models that are great for 40k.
I know they have to make money, but I think they need to do what battlefront does and your army has to be over 50% GW. Then I think we would see a flood of awesome models and a golden age of variety.
Why would anyone enforce this rule tho? GW doesn't provide support, nor do they provide anything else for organized play. There is absolutely no reason to impose any restrictions on players.
I did mean in GW stores. I have seen WW1 aircraft used in fantasy before at a tournament here so its pretty relaxed in that setting. But in GW stores apparently they kick you out.
Swastakowey wrote: Its a problem that effects many armies though, I mean if you like tall space marines Scibor is amazing, if you like fancy orks then Kromlech is great. But it hurts Guard the most because there are so many historical, sci fi and modern models that are great for 40k.
I know they have to make money, but I think they need to do what battlefront does and your army has to be over 50% GW. Then I think we would see a flood of awesome models and a golden age of variety.
Why would anyone enforce this rule tho? GW doesn't provide support, nor do they provide anything else for organized play. There is absolutely no reason to impose any restrictions on players.
I haven't played in a tournament yet that doesn't allow at least 75% GW model. I believe its mostly so tourney hosts will actually have people go to the tourney at this point honestly.
Swastakowey wrote: Its a problem that effects many armies though, I mean if you like tall space marines Scibor is amazing, if you like fancy orks then Kromlech is great. But it hurts Guard the most because there are so many historical, sci fi and modern models that are great for 40k.
I know they have to make money, but I think they need to do what battlefront does and your army has to be over 50% GW. Then I think we would see a flood of awesome models and a golden age of variety.
Why would anyone enforce this rule tho? GW doesn't provide support, nor do they provide anything else for organized play. There is absolutely no reason to impose any restrictions on players.
It's a paradox. On one hand nearly everyone who play GW games acknowledge the fact that GW gives you no support regarding tournaments and gaming events, treats you like you're their enemy, keeps raising prices while never giving discounts, attacks in paranoid ways against third party producers and its own retailers and in general tries to make shopping for the customers as difficult as possible, doesn't advertise or beta test, writes imbalanced and incoherent rules, and in general is subject to ridicule in almost every way a company can be. On the other hand the gamers are completely incapable of agreeing with eachother about anything, for example whether it's regarding house ruling the game in order to fix it, or using models from other companies in games of 40K, so they just decide to not do anything at all regarding their criticisms and instead just buy overpriced GW products and play according to the garbage rules that would be easily fixable.
I did mean in GW stores. I have seen WW1 aircraft used in fantasy before at a tournament here so its pretty relaxed in that setting. But in GW stores apparently they kick you out.
I didn't see where you were from as GW stores actually mean something outside the USA, I just assume in the states no one ever means GW stores (since they're a pretty big joke due to lack of space and 1 employee).
I did mean in GW stores. I have seen WW1 aircraft used in fantasy before at a tournament here so its pretty relaxed in that setting. But in GW stores apparently they kick you out.
I didn't see where you were from as GW stores actually mean something outside the USA, I just assume in the states no one ever means GW stores (since they're a pretty big joke due to lack of space and 1 employee).
I have been in a GW store 3 times, once to buy my first army (dont get me started on that experience) and once to help a friend against an onslaught of salesmen and once to give it a third chance.
I happily stick to my gaming group where anything goes and I can have a fair amount of fun despite any problems with the product. But the kids at my gaming group, well GW has indoctrinated them, and it will take many years to get them into a fully functional state.
Most IG players already have their armies and the new blood lack the funds to make a pure IG at current prices.
So "allowing" non-GW bits in their (Game)Days and (non)official tournaments without making new cool kits for IG would end up in scant additional money for GW and an increase in revenues for all the 3rd party manufacturers.
Probably GW will repackage the old Cadian sprues for the next codex and call it a day.
M.
Most players had IG armies when they moved on to plastic Cadians and catachans, but like all new models they began to phase out the old models and so on, except with this set up people in theory will be buying more than just the replacement model. It would be an add on sale.
In an ideal world for GW you would be right but the key point against your argument is that at current prices a new GW stormtrooper kit would be 29$ for 10 at the very least, unless that box is incredibly good I can go and buy Dreamforge Stormtroopers at 42$ for 20 and that's just an example. Simply there are many more alternatives on the market than 20 years ago when GW phased out all the metal OG in favor of the Cadian and Catachan plastics.
Everytime I think about buying GW I ask myself, what added value does GW give me that I can't get by using third party stuff? The answer is the reason why in the last 2/3 years the only miniatures I got from GW have been the Eldar flier and Illic. So unless GW changes in a radical way I don't see myself buying new GWIG kits or bits (Well perhaps another HWT box if they don't screw up with the prices).
I think its the same with many players now days, Especially among older gamers who know better (most kids cant think outside of GW), but If they showed they where putting in effort to make the gaming experience better wouldnt this make you more likely to buy it?
My GW and FW account has had no transactions in a long time because it doesnt seem like they want to do more than the bare minimum. I mean why dont my guardsmen come with all the special weapons? You cant even buy them seperately! things like that make it difficult to buy from GW but I dont see a change coming, so I just post my hopes here and see how it goes.
I happily stick to my gaming group where anything goes and I can have a fair amount of fun despite any problems with the product. But the kids at my gaming group, well GW has indoctrinated them, and it will take many years to get them into a fully functional state.
I hear this.
Had a conversation about GW pricing with one of the younger (college age) kids at my club once.
He said he didn't mind the prices, as he only spent his 'spare' money on GW product, and as he was spending it anyway, it didn't matter.
He literally could not grasp my points that he could a) spend less on GW for the same amount of product and have cash to spend on other things or b) spend the same amount and get more stuff if the prices were a bit more reasonable.
He's not a stupid kid either, but yeesh has he downed some Koolaid.
BTW those old Warzone soldiers are from the plastic Cadian era too and cost about 20€ for 80. Need to get my butt out of the internets and paint more stuff.
I happily stick to my gaming group where anything goes and I can have a fair amount of fun despite any problems with the product. But the kids at my gaming group, well GW has indoctrinated them, and it will take many years to get them into a fully functional state.
I hear this.
Had a conversation about GW pricing with one of the younger (college age) kids at my club once.
He said he didn't mind the prices, as he only spent his 'spare' money on GW product, and as he was spending it anyway, it didn't matter.
He literally could not grasp my points that he could a) spend less on GW for the same amount of product and have cash to spend on other things or b) spend the same amount and get more stuff if the prices were a bit more reasonable.
He's not a stupid kid either, but yeesh has he downed some Koolaid.
Its an epidemic of massed proportions, a cult which keeps your eyes shut to the wonders of gaming. Like they say, nobody joins a cult. This kid may be smart but he is being lead astray. My gaming days where once clouded black by GW cult teachings, but alas my eyes are opened and I can enjoy the hobby and all its worth.
And yea some people dont even know what those collectors guard look like. Very sad indead. We need to get a thread together where people can show off their non standard cadian armies so people can see whats really out there.
streetsamurai wrote: I think that the problems are also the player. It's really easy to come with an unique looking regiment, yet few persons do it.
Hell, even showing up with regular variants is unusual anymore. I mean, other than mine, when was the last time anyone saw a all Steel Legion IG army?
That really comes down to the fact that most special orders could easily take up to a year to actually get in your hands. I waited so long for 4 boxes of Vostroyans by the time it finally reached me I had sold all of my other Vostroyans months earlier (Seriously, waiting 10 months for 45 bits of metal is bonkers) then I sold those again at retail price and bought warmachine mercenaries.
The limited runs of special metal is probably a huge turn off to a lot of people when they see that special order only marker on their website.
Therion wrote: It's a paradox. On one hand nearly everyone who play GW games acknowledge the fact that GW gives you no support regarding tournaments and gaming events, treats you like you're their enemy, keeps raising prices while never giving discounts, attacks in paranoid ways against third party producers and its own retailers and in general tries to make shopping for the customers as difficult as possible, doesn't advertise or beta test, writes imbalanced and incoherent rules, and in general is subject to ridicule in almost every way a company can be. On the other hand the gamers are completely incapable of agreeing with eachother about anything, for example whether it's regarding house ruling the game in order to fix it, or using models from other companies in games of 40K, so they just decide to not do anything at all regarding their criticisms and instead just buy overpriced GW products and play according to the garbage rules that would be easily fixable.
I agree.
Therion wrote: It's a paradox. On one hand nearly everyone who play GW games acknowledge the fact that GW gives you no support regarding tournaments and gaming events, treats you like you're their enemy, keeps raising prices while never giving discounts, attacks in paranoid ways against third party producers and its own retailers and in general tries to make shopping for the customers as difficult as possible, doesn't advertise or beta test, writes imbalanced and incoherent rules, and in general is subject to ridicule in almost every way a company can be. On the other hand the gamers are completely incapable of agreeing with eachother about anything, for example whether it's regarding house ruling the game in order to fix it, or using models from other companies in games of 40K, so they just decide to not do anything at all regarding their criticisms and instead just buy overpriced GW products and play according to the garbage rules that would be easily fixable.
I disagree.
BaronIveagh wrote: Hell, even showing up with regular variants is unusual anymore. I mean, other than mine, when was the last time anyone saw a all Steel Legion IG army?
I got some recent interesting reactions to my metal Cadians, let alone any Mordian or Tallarn stuff that I own.
Swastakowey wrote: Its a problem that effects many armies though, I mean if you like tall space marines Scibor is amazing, if you like fancy orks then Kromlech is great. But it hurts Guard the most because there are so many historical, sci fi and modern models that are great for 40k.
I know they have to make money, but I think they need to do what battlefront does and your army has to be over 50% GW. Then I think we would see a flood of awesome models and a golden age of variety.
Why would anyone enforce this rule tho? GW doesn't provide support, nor do they provide anything else for organized play. There is absolutely no reason to impose any restrictions on players.
Because very few outside of GW stores (to my knowledge) support that way of thinking.
The problem is, it doesn't matter if the entire community was cool with substituting units with paper slips, GW wants people buying its models (which is understandable)
Think about it from their point of view as a business. Why make rules to encourage people taking armies of models that you don't make? You make far less money than if you imply that only your models will work for the ruleset. Why bother making rules for Vostroyans, Valhallans, Steel Legion, Mordians, Tanith, and others, if the vast majority of the people that would use them are going to buy their models from somewhere else?
So unless they thought that making a new regiment or two as kits is a good idea, we'll probably be kept with Catachan and Cadian centric rules. It would not surprise me however if we end up getting a new regiment made in plastic to replace the aging Catachans. It would only take 3 box sets to make a new regiment, since you just need an infantry squad, Heavy weapon squad, and a Command Squad, everything else could be kept as is. If they did that, it allows them to update their look, introduce a new regiment or bring back an old one, and would encourage old and new players alike to buy more models.
I think it's safe to say that if any of the old metal regiments got a set of plastic kits in this new release, they would sell very well amongst new and old players alike.
Swastakowey wrote: My gaming days where once clouded black by GW cult teachings, but alas my eyes are opened and I can enjoy the hobby and all its worth.
As were mine, for a very long time. Even after posting here for a long time I never really looked outside of 40K (with the exception of BattleTech, as there's no cross-over there) and only started to with the advent of the 40KRPG. Once the shroud was removed the flood gates open (to both mix and torture the metaphor!), and now I've got stuff from all over the place. Even built an entire army (my AdMech force) out of mostly non-GW minis.
Quite liberating.
MrMoustaffa wrote: I think it's safe to say that if any of the old metal regiments got a set of plastic kits in this new release, they would sell very well amongst new and old players alike.
I'd debate that as a "maybe" rather than a definite. As awful as the plastic Catachans are, they still look like their superior metal counterparts. The Cadians on the other hand? Well, scale issues aside the plastic Cadians just don't match the metal Cadians other than superficially, enough that mixing the regiments looks awkward. If they released plastic Tallarns or Mordians that differet from the original metals to the same degree as Cadians there might be an incentive to buy them, but not to mix in with existing models.
Or, alternatively, I'm just OCD/anal retentive and refuse to mix plastic and metal Cadians. @ me.
Swastakowey wrote: My gaming days where once clouded black by GW cult teachings, but alas my eyes are opened and I can enjoy the hobby and all its worth.
As were mine, for a very long time. Even after posting here for a long time I never really looked outside of 40K (with the exception of BattleTech, as there's no cross-over there) and only started to with the advent of the 40KRPG. Once the shroud was removed the flood gates open (to both mix and torture the metaphor!), and now I've got stuff from all over the place. Even built an entire army (my AdMech force) out of mostly non-GW minis.
Quite liberating.
Mine started when I purchased bulk lots of trademe, (NZ ebay) and some had 3rd party models that blew me away, from then on i slowly converted. The guy who sold me praetorians told me where to find victoria miniatures and from then on I was fully converted.
MrMoustaffa wrote: It would not surprise me however if we end up getting a new regiment made in plastic to replace the aging Catachans. It would only take 3 box sets to make a new regiment, since you just need an infantry squad, Heavy weapon squad, and a Command Squad, everything else could be kept as is. If they did that, it allows them to update their look, introduce a new regiment or bring back an old one, and would encourage old and new players alike to buy more models. .
Add to that that so long as they keep the different kits compatible with one another (which isn't really the case now, due to the Catachan arms being ridiculously massive and the belts being on the opposite part on Cadians vs Catachan torso/leg sets) then you get extra customisation by being able to mix-and-match for your own regiment.
Heck, if they wanted to great really carried away, the Cadian kit could easily be expanded to include Greatcoat legs and a variant helmet or cap. A new Catachan box could include camo cloaks and regular fatigue shirts to swap out for the singlets. Heads with bush hats would be nice too...
MrMoustaffa wrote: It would not surprise me however if we end up getting a new regiment made in plastic to replace the aging Catachans. It would only take 3 box sets to make a new regiment, since you just need an infantry squad, Heavy weapon squad, and a Command Squad, everything else could be kept as is. If they did that, it allows them to update their look, introduce a new regiment or bring back an old one, and would encourage old and new players alike to buy more models. .
Add to that that so long as they keep the different kits compatible with one another (which isn't really the case now, due to the Catachan arms being ridiculously massive and the belts being on the opposite part on Cadians vs Catachan torso/leg sets) then you get extra customisation by being able to mix-and-match for your own regiment.
Heck, if they wanted to great really carried away, the Cadian kit could easily be expanded to include Greatcoat legs and a variant helmet or cap. A new Catachan box could include camo cloaks and regular fatigue shirts to swap out for the singlets. Heads with bush hats would be nice too...
Thats something i brought up earlier, if they sold packs of different heads and torsos and arms and so on then you could buy a box of cadians, then but the "upgrade bits" and then mix and match from there.
I don't really see them bringing out that many new plastics. I think the most we can expect is a few new kits: stormtroopers, ogryns, flyer, maybe a new big tank or walker.
There's a lot of old tired models in other armeis that haven't been updated for ages, so I don't see them touching Cadians or Catachans.
They could do head/torso upgrades for cadians to make them other things, but really I don't see that happening. There's only a few IG flavours that would actually suit the Cadian legs and arms, the rest would need new pretty much an entire redesign of the cadian line up which I just don't think is realistic.
What does surprise me with the new weekly release schedule is that the codex / army book doesn't hit retail until the second week in. Maybe I'm seeing it wrong, but the first week you just get mini releases and the relevant book doesn't hit until a week later, why GW?
BrookM wrote: What does surprise me with the new weekly release schedule is that the codex / army book doesn't hit retail until the second week in. Maybe I'm seeing it wrong, but the first week you just get mini releases and the relevant book doesn't hit until a week later, why GW?
I know, most people wont be buying any models and just the codex anyways lol
BrookM wrote: What does surprise me with the new weekly release schedule is that the codex / army book doesn't hit retail until the second week in. Maybe I'm seeing it wrong, but the first week you just get mini releases and the relevant book doesn't hit until a week later, why GW?
So you'll buy the unit without knowing anything about it, and then come back the next week to get the rules, and then back the following week to buy any good units.
I hope so. I have a full Psyker Battle Squad painted and based that I use regularly (Most every game). I very much enjoy them and coupled with barrage weapons, they are wonderful at helping me with pinning non fearless/stubborn squads.
In regard to regiments, there are the following 'named' regiments that have been at one time produced by GW.
Cadians
Catachans
Vostroyans (My regiment, and personal favorite regiment)
Mordians
Steel Legion
Tallarn
Vahallan
Praetorian
Attilan
Tanith (at least a few models.. not exactly a full model line granted, but for completeness's sake I'll note them )
And the Forgeworld varieties
Death Korps of Krieg
Elysian Drop Troops
The Forge World units have their own dataslates/rules from Forgeworld obviously.
Could they not include a handful of 'specialized' doctrines for each of the above named (and currently/formerly produced) regiments? It wouldn't have to be anything more than a single 'army rule' that you could choose to use if you happen to field an army of a non Cadian/Catachan regiment.
A few examples:
Mordian: If you field Mordians, your army gains the stubborn universal special rule for all Company Command Squads, Infantry Platoons (Inc. Infantry, Special, and Heavy Weapon Squads), and Veteran Squads.
Vostroyan: If you field Vostroyans, any squad that can can purchase Carapace armor (Veteran Squads & Company Command Squad) may do so at a reduced points cost for the unit (Say 15 to 20 points for the squad).
Or, alternatively, any Vostroyan infantry or Veteran squad may, for XX points per squad, have one master-crafted (NON-heavy) weapon per model (This would not be cheap, 30+ points at least per squad)
Steel Legion: If you field Armageddon Steel Legion, the price of Chimera transports is reduced to XX points for any Company Command, Platoon Command, Infantry, Special, Heavy Weapon, or Veteran squad that purchases it as a dedicated transport (5 point, to at most 10 point reduction on the tank perhaps.)
It would not be overly difficult to put one page with "Notable Regiments of the Imperial Guard/Astra Militarium" and throw a quick unique blurb and means to give at least the more popular old lists a bit of a nod for those who have them.
Not trying to wishlist, but I'd be very surprised if we only get rules for Catachan and Cadian. Time will tell though, I suppose.
So kind of like chapter tactics for the various guards regiments? Sounds neat. And GW could make a shitton of supplements for some special regiments, along the lines of the sentinels of terra, giving minor variations to the regiment rules. Huh, that doesn't sound that neat anymore but still.
I just wish they'd do something similar for orks. Someone suggested more color-codes for vehicles so you'd actually paint something other than red for a change.
BrookM wrote: What does surprise me with the new weekly release schedule is that the codex / army book doesn't hit retail until the second week in. Maybe I'm seeing it wrong, but the first week you just get mini releases and the relevant book doesn't hit until a week later, why GW?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Given that a "weremole" would just be a person crossed with a mole
No, it is someone that, when underground, transform into a very hairy person with some regenerative powers, super-human reflexes, and some awesome digging claws in place of hand !
Why would you need to see when you have this thing for a nose :
It is said even Cthulhu fears the weremoles !
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kosake wrote: Someone suggested more color-codes for vehicles so you'd actually paint something other than red for a change.
Blue to get to reroll one cover save per turn, or maybe force the opponent to reroll damage die ?
I do not know any other ork color power than red → fast and blue → lucky.
Red__Thirst wrote: I hope so. I have a full Psyker Battle Squad painted and based that I use regularly (Most every game). I very much enjoy them and coupled with barrage weapons, they are wonderful at helping me with pinning non fearless/stubborn squads.
In regard to regiments, there are the following 'named' regiments that have been at one time produced by GW.
Cadians
Catachans
Vostroyans (My regiment, and personal favorite regiment)
Mordians
Steel Legion
Tallarn
Vahallan
Praetorian
Attilan
Tanith (at least a few models.. not exactly a full model line granted, but for completeness's sake I'll note them )
And the Forgeworld varieties
Death Korps of Krieg
Elysian Drop Troops
Colonel Schaeffer would like to have a word with you...
Sounds like horrible mutants to me. Someone get the Commissar over here!
Still holding out hope for Chapter Tactics-style doctrines as well. Ideally, they'd be along the lines of Only War's regimental types rather than names of famous planets, so you'd pick light infantry instead of Catachan or Tallarn, mechanized instead of Armageddon Steel Legion, and so forth.
Could they not include a handful of 'specialized' doctrines for each of the above named (and currently/formerly produced) regiments? It wouldn't have to be anything more than a single 'army rule' that you could choose to use if you happen to field an army of a non Cadian/Catachan regiment.
So much this. I've suggested this before and would also be a great way for GW to encourage IG players to buy more IG models of different regiments. When SM chapters who have identical models have different Chapter Tactics it only makes sense if the IG who have different models have different rules as well.
Could they not include a handful of 'specialized' doctrines for each of the above named (and currently/formerly produced) regiments? It wouldn't have to be anything more than a single 'army rule' that you could choose to use if you happen to field an army of a non Cadian/Catachan regiment.
So much this. I've suggested this before and would also be a great way for GW to encourage IG players to buy more IG models of different regiments. When SM chapters who have identical models have different Chapter Tactics it only makes sense if the IG who have different models have different rules as well.
That would be cool. This way I can run my cadains as catachans, steel legion, Tallarn, etc... I'm not buying a single model until I get a codex. been burned so many times before.
To be honest, I'm just hoping for a proper and somewhat playable Codex IG Supplement: Catachans and I'll be happy. I'll even buy some more Catachans if that happens.
Red__Thirst wrote: I hope so. I have a full Psyker Battle Squad painted and based that I use regularly (Most every game). I very much enjoy them and coupled with barrage weapons, they are wonderful at helping me with pinning non fearless/stubborn squads.
In regard to regiments, there are the following 'named' regiments that have been at one time produced by GW.
Cadians
Catachans
Vostroyans (My regiment, and personal favorite regiment)
Mordians
Steel Legion
Tallarn
Vahallan
Praetorian
Attilan
Tanith (at least a few models.. not exactly a full model line granted, but for completeness's sake I'll note them )
And the Forgeworld varieties
Death Korps of Krieg
Elysian Drop Troops
Colonel Schaeffer would like to have a word with you...
13th Penal Legion.
Ah, Derp. I thought I was forgetting one. (I even got Attilan though, to my credit). I realize what I did now, I always get the Tanith/Gaunt's Ghosts mixed up with the 13th Penal Legion/Scaeffer's Last Chancers. Not the first time I've done it, and likely won't be the last time I've done it either.
That said, thanks for the addition to the list. I appreciate it.
I'm also glad to hear that people are liking the idea of Regimental special rules for the different, less common or standard Regiments out there. The Regiments I would like to see or expect get rules such as the ones I suggested in my previous post are: Cadian, Catachan (Obviously on both) Vostroyan, Mordian, Steel Legion, Tallarn, Valhallan, and Praetorian. It wouldn't have to be a major rule, but just something to give the force it's own unique feel to it and that would be totally optional for a player to use if that player happens to have a specific Regiment and choose to do so. Would certainly give the new codex a lot more variety, a-la the newest Space Marine codex & Chapter Tactics.
Just my thoughts once again. Thanks for reading and take it easy for now fellas.
Why are we coming up with unique special rules for different regiments? That one sounded like wish-listing to me.
I mean the bottom line objection I have to this is that Guardsmen aren't special and shouldn't be any more special than they are right now, and even if they were, that would possibly result in a painful price increase across the board.
Now, say we were to talk about different kinds of companies having different allowances and at a stretch bonuses, say an Armoured Company being able to split all of the Russes in squadrons into seperate units at the start of games while getting reduced fast attack, or an Airborne Company being able to buy the deep strike USR for select units and lacking tanks, maybe I'd understand, but even that would be hard to balance.
I have a hard time predicting what GW will do at all with C:IG, honestly.
Mr.Omega wrote: Why are we coming up with unique special rules for different regiments? That one sounded like wish-listing to me.
Guard USED to have different rules for each Regiment (Catachans had their own CODEX ffs). It's only with the elimination of the Doctrines rule that we're had Vanilla Guard.
Mr.Omega wrote: Why are we coming up with unique special rules for different regiments? That one sounded like wish-listing to me.
I mean the bottom line objection I have to this is that Guardsmen aren't special and shouldn't be any more special than they are right now, and even if they were, that would possibly result in a painful price increase across the board.
Now, say we were to talk about different kinds of companies having different allowances and at a stretch bonuses, say an Armoured Company being able to split all of the Russes in squadrons into seperate units at the start of games while getting reduced fast attack, or an Airborne Company being able to buy the deep strike USR for select units and lacking tanks, maybe I'd understand, but even that would be hard to balance.
I have a hard time predicting what GW will do at all with C:IG, honestly.
Guardsmen are special, Many are very specialised, many are classified regiments (who knows what they may be or why they are classified?), the list goes on. Every guardsmen is "special", even if that speciality is being armed with pitch forks or clubs. As such to represent diversity we need something far more grand in scale compared to chapter tactics to represent this.
Mr.Omega wrote: Why are we coming up with unique special rules for different regiments? That one sounded like wish-listing to me.
I mean the bottom line objection I have to this is that Guardsmen aren't special and shouldn't be any more special than they are right now, and even if they were, that would possibly result in a painful price increase across the board.
Now, say we were to talk about different kinds of companies having different allowances and at a stretch bonuses, say an Armoured Company being able to split all of the Russes in squadrons into seperate units at the start of games while getting reduced fast attack, or an Airborne Company being able to buy the deep strike USR for select units and lacking tanks, maybe I'd understand, but even that would be hard to balance.
I have a hard time predicting what GW will do at all with C:IG, honestly.
Guardsmen are special, Many are very specialised, many are classified regiments (who knows what they may be or why they are classified?), the list goes on. Every guardsmen is "special", even if that speciality is being armed with pitch forks or clubs. As such to represent diversity we need something far more grand in scale compared to chapter tactics to represent this.
I agree more diverse an army the better. A quote from the back of the 5thed Codex " The Imperial guard is the largest and most diverse fighting force in the entire galaxy...." That right there should show that every army has the right to be different not just cadian. Doctrines would only help.
It would not surprise me however if we end up getting a new regiment made in plastic to replace the aging Catachans. It would only take 3 box sets to make a new regiment, since you just need an infantry squad, Heavy weapon squad, and a Command Squad, everything else could be kept as is. If they did that, it allows them to update their look, introduce a new regiment or bring back an old one, and would encourage old and new players alike to buy more models.
I think it's safe to say that if any of the old metal regiments got a set of plastic kits in this new release, they would sell very well amongst new and old players alike.
It would not surprise me however if we end up getting a new regiment made in plastic to replace the aging Catachans. It would only take 3 box sets to make a new regiment, since you just need an infantry squad, Heavy weapon squad, and a Command Squad, everything else could be kept as is. If they did that, it allows them to update their look, introduce a new regiment or bring back an old one, and would encourage old and new players alike to buy more models.
I think it's safe to say that if any of the old metal regiments got a set of plastic kits in this new release, they would sell very well amongst new and old players alike.
Bonde wrote: To be honest, I'm just hoping for a proper and somewhat playable Codex IG Supplement: Catachans and I'll be happy. I'll even buy some more Catachans if that happens.
The idea of needing a supplement to field my Catachans makes me sad.
Mr.Omega wrote: Now, say we were to talk about different kinds of companies having different allowances and at a stretch bonuses, say an Armoured Company being able to split all of the Russes in squadrons into seperate units at the start of games while getting reduced fast attack, or an Airborne Company being able to buy the deep strike USR for select units and lacking tanks, maybe I'd understand, but even that would be hard to balance.
This already exists. The Elysian drop troops list is specialized airborne (deep strike infantry, lots of flyers, no tanks), the armored battlegroup is all tanks (including specialized command tanks) with optional token infantry, and the DKoK lists give you all the WWI in space you could ever dream of. Why attempt to make a boring scaled-down version of that diversity in the codex?
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H.B.M.C. wrote: Having a general Codex that removes all factions is worse.
Err, what? IG don't have factions at all, there's nothing to remove.
Mr.Omega wrote: Now, say we were to talk about different kinds of companies having different allowances and at a stretch bonuses, say an Armoured Company being able to split all of the Russes in squadrons into seperate units at the start of games while getting reduced fast attack, or an Airborne Company being able to buy the deep strike USR for select units and lacking tanks, maybe I'd understand, but even that would be hard to balance.
This already exists. The Elysian drop troops list is specialized airborne (deep strike infantry, lots of flyers, no tanks), the armored battlegroup is all tanks (including specialized command tanks) with optional token infantry, and the DKoK lists give you all the WWI in space you could ever dream of. Why attempt to make a boring scaled-down version of that diversity in the codex?
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H.B.M.C. wrote: Having a general Codex that removes all factions is worse.
Err, what? IG don't have factions at all, there's nothing to remove.
That contributed nothing at all... waste of space really.
But its far easier to have it all in one handy book than have to get dreaded forge world books (or downloads) to use them. So much easier when its all in one place where everybody knows about it and its rules. Using non FW rules guarantees that everybody you play against is happy to do so. Thats why we all want it in the codex. FW is a pain (as much as i love their models) when it comes to rules and books.
Herzlos wrote: The idea of needing a supplement to field my Catachans makes me sad.
Having a general Codex that removes all factions is worse.
Honestly, I think I'd rather field my Catachans as vanilla guard than have to buy and carry 3 books (2 of which are hard backs) just to play. I don't have the patience or table space.
Herzlos wrote: The idea of needing a supplement to field my Catachans makes me sad.
Having a general Codex that removes all factions is worse.
Honestly, I think I'd rather field my Catachans as vanilla guard than have to buy and carry 3 books (2 of which are hard backs) just to play. I don't have the patience or table space.
...There's a bit of a logic issue with what you're saying, since the supplementary faction books are optional. If you're just going to field them as vanilla guard, you don't have to buy the hypothetical Catachans book, so what's the problem? Someone else who wants the quirky old Catachan style back can get that without infringing on your "Cadians with pituitary problems" lists.
Herzlos wrote: The idea of needing a supplement to field my Catachans makes me sad.
Having a general Codex that removes all factions is worse.
Honestly, I think I'd rather field my Catachans as vanilla guard than have to buy and carry 3 books (2 of which are hard backs) just to play. I don't have the patience or table space.
...There's a bit of a logic issue with what you're saying, since the supplementary faction books are optional. If you're just going to field them as vanilla guard, you don't have to buy the hypothetical Catachans book, so what's the problem? Someone else who wants the quirky old Catachan style back can get that without infringing on your "Cadians with pituitary problems" lists.
I don't think there is a logic issue. I hate multiple rule-books, and whilst I'd like some Catachan flavour if it's not in the main codex I won't bother with it. If they launched a Codex: Catachan or a stand-alone supplement then I'd take it, but I'm not going to bring MRB, Codex & supplement.
BaronIveagh wrote: I'd just go with getting them digital. Saves a lot of weight.
It would, but from my experience with digital books on tablets (minimal), it's bad enough trying to find something in one book without having to keep changing between 3. There's some things that are better in paper, and that's reference material. And I say that as a Software Engineer that spends my working life in front of a PC.
I don't think there is a logic issue. I hate multiple rule-books, and whilst I'd like some Catachan flavour if it's not in the main codex I won't bother with it. If they launched a Codex: Catachan or a stand-alone supplement then I'd take it, but I'm not going to bring MRB, Codex & supplement.
That's OK, then, it was this idea of "Needing a supplement makes me sad" rubbing up against the idea of "I'd rather just field them as vanilla guard". And it's like, if you're going to do that, you don't need a supplement, so leave them to people who'll use them. But I get what you're saying.
I think the reason most people would rather have extra rules in the main codex instead of supplements is because nobody likes paying $50 for what will ultimately be mostly recycled fluff with 5 pages of rules.
Well obviously, but that's kind of another issue. I don't think the current crop of "Supplements" are good. That doesn't mean the concept has no meaningful/advantageous future.
Bull0 wrote: Well obviously, but that's kind of another issue. I don't think the current crop of "Supplements" are good. That doesn't mean the concept has no meaningful/advantageous future.
Good god, no. Supplements are potentially one of the most exciting things GW have (re)introduced to 40K in some time. The potential for generating goodwill and customer satisfaction, while providing extra income and stimulating model sales is frankly boggling.
Unfortunately GW's MO in the last year or two seems to be some pretty solid ideas backed up by flawed execution, which they are a perfect example of.
Realistically I'm buying them to use the rules during a game, so the 32* pages of (potentially regurgitated) fluff doesn't have much value beyond an initial read, and the "showcase of glorious Citadel miniatures"* is a complete waste of time, whilst the hard back makes it a nuisance.
Even at that, there's less fluff than an £8 novel, and a couple of cards worth of rules, when for the same price I can buy any number of hard back rule books for other systems.
*Taken from the Iyanden Supplement page.
Though I'd still rather they just put the fluff back into the main codex where it used to be, instead of using it as a cynical excuse to sell me 2 books. £90 just for the books to play is pushing it a bit (£30 for "Warhammer 40,000: The Rules", £30 for a Codex and £30 for a supplement). I've got into entirely new games systems with full rules and factions for less than that (X-Wing, Bolt Action, Empire Of The Dead, Flames Of War, Saga).
Even at that, there's less fluff than an £8 novel, and a couple of cards worth of rules, when for the same price I can buy any number of hard back rule books for other systems.
I'd rather have the fluff in the rule book. I dunno if you've ever been a playtester for a GW product, but sometimes the discussions where stats exist because of outdated fluff rather than game balance can get a bit heated and it helps if you have an 'official' GW product that refutes what they're saying.
That's a pretty obscure requirement to have the fluff in the same book that you need to game with. I've never playtested for GW (I was under the impression that cut back on that to prevent leaks), but I'd rather have some sort of rules-only set for gaming with, preferably with reference cards or spiral bound pages so that I don't need to rely on weights to keep the book open at the correct page.
Edit: I'm very tempted to get the hard cover ripped off and have the book re-bound on spirals for gaming with, with the fluff bound separately. It just seems like such a waste to buy a £30 book and end up with something that's less than a dozen pages long.
Herzlos wrote: Edit: I'm very tempted to get the hard cover ripped off and have the book re-bound on spirals for gaming with, with the fluff bound separately. It just seems like such a waste to buy a £30 book and end up with something that's less than a dozen pages long.
Supplements are a great concept on paper and if GW was a good company they could have reinvigorated the entire franchise with it. However the product is top heavy with too much fluff (something that requires no effort to put in really given how simply it's written), boring and few real unique rules, and are far overpriced. Making the entire supplement thing ultimately useless.
Which is a shame, because $6.99 ~20 page supplements for Catachans, Vostroyans, Iron Guard, Valhallans, Mordians, etc would have been great.
Harriticus wrote: Supplements are a great concept on paper and if GW was a good company they could have reinvigorated the entire franchise with it. However the product is top heavy with too much fluff (something that requires no effort to put in really given how simply it's written), boring and few real unique rules, and are far overpriced. Making the entire supplement thing ultimately useless.
Which is a shame, because $6.99 ~20 page supplements for Catachans, Vostroyans, Iron Guard, Valhallans, Mordians, etc would have been great.
Man I would buy every supplement for IG if they put them out at that price, even if there's just a small blurb of fluff, a small painting guide, and rule entries.
Spoiler:
It would still have more content than the current ones
Harriticus wrote: Supplements are a great concept on paper and if GW was a good company they could have reinvigorated the entire franchise with it. However the product is top heavy with too much fluff .....
Suppliments are the perfect place for faction specific fluff. The problem with them is that they simply don't bring much of worth to the game.
I would love both doctrines for the IG regiments and IG codex supplements. The Imperial Fists and Iron Hands got that treatment, so why not do the same to Catachans and Steel Legion/Vostroyans/you name it?
Vanilla guardsmen with doctrines in the main codex, own army list in their own supplement. Much win. Wow.
Harriticus wrote: Which is a shame, because $6.99 ~20 page supplements for Catachans, Vostroyans, Iron Guard, Valhallans, Mordians, etc would have been great.
I'm sorry, but that would be terrible.
The current Marine Codex (and the FWHH books for that matter) have shown us that you can do multiple armies in a single book without the need for pointless expansions and supplements. The Marine Codex contains what many other books (Eldar, Guard and especially Chaos) should have - fluff and rules sections for multiple different factions. It's not a difficult thing to do, and the fact that they don't do it more often is a sign of either greed or incompetence. Maybe both.
Rostere wrote: ... the Imperial Fists and Iron Hands got that treatment...
And it made Iron Hands players so happy to receive their multi-page complete fluff ret-con. Besides, neither army needed a supplement as the core Codex already had specific rules for their army. And those supplements were limited "one company" supplements, detailing the history of a single part of the whole Chapter. More of those is a bad thing IMO. If they're going to do more supplements, make them meaningful ones and not throwaway arbitrary fluff expansions that detail a single bit of a greater whole. The Farsight Enclaves gave lots of information for a real faction of the Tau, and not some random Cadre of Fire Warriors. The Iyanden gave information for an entire Craftworld, not some specific Warhost within a Craftworld. More of that (if we must have more of anything). Less of the single-company nonsense.
Bull0 wrote: Well obviously, but that's kind of another issue. I don't think the current crop of "Supplements" are good. That doesn't mean the concept has no meaningful/advantageous future.
Good god, no. Supplements are potentially one of the most exciting things GW have (re)introduced to 40K in some time. The potential for generating goodwill and customer satisfaction, while providing extra income and stimulating model sales is frankly boggling.
Unfortunately GW's MO in the last year or two seems to be some pretty solid ideas backed up by flawed execution, which they are a perfect example of.
Supplements creating variant lists such as Nurgle Plague army of CSM or a something similar are interesting.
Supplements that add in units that should have been in the main codex, or force you to buy them to make a weak codex actually viable (thus generating more revenue) are terrible/despicable.
Digital only supplements also run the risk of creating a 2nd class citizen when it comes to gaming. Don't have a digital reader? Looks like you're way outta luck, putting you at a competitive disadvantage. Not a fan of that. Reminds me of the 2nd edition equipment cards. I remember playing a game and getting ambushed with cards that came in magazines I had no idea existed and had no assess to, and I never want to go back to that situation again; I stopped playing until 3rd.
Moopy wrote: Digital only supplements also run the risk of creating a 2nd class citizen when it comes to gaming. Don't have a digital reader? Looks like you're way outta luck, putting you at a competitive disadvantage. Not a fan of that. Reminds me of the 2nd edition equipment cards. I remember playing a game and getting ambushed with cards that came in magazines I had no idea existed or could assess, and I never want to go back to that situation again; I stopped playing until 3rd.
This old chestnut again. You know who else forced supplements on people right? Oh wait...
Do you have a computer? Than you can get a supplement. It isn't that big a deal. How many people play 40k and don't have access to a computer. It isn't like printing out the rules pages is that much of a chore. There's what 4-5 of them in most supplements.
Moopy wrote: I have no idea who forced supplements on people, so why don't you tell me?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum "Another instance of reductio ad Hitlerum is asking a question of the form "You know who else...?" with the deliberate intent of impugning a certain idea or action by implying Hitler held that idea or performed such action.[4]"
The first paragraph was a joke. The second one was the one you should respond to. Geeze, kids these days.
Moopy wrote: Digital only supplements also run the risk of creating a 2nd class citizen when it comes to gaming. Don't have a digital reader? Looks like you're way outta luck, putting you at a competitive disadvantage. Not a fan of that. Reminds me of the 2nd edition equipment cards. I remember playing a game and getting ambushed with cards that came in magazines I had no idea existed or could assess, and I never want to go back to that situation again; I stopped playing until 3rd.
This old chestnut again. You know who else forced supplements on people right? Oh wait...
Do you have a computer? Than you can get a supplement. It isn't that big a deal. How many people play 40k and don't have access to a computer. It isn't like printing out the rules pages is that much of a chore. There's what 4-5 of them in most supplements.
I tried printing them out but they came out wacky, because of all the drop down boxes and so on if printed like 4 pages for 1 page. Printing them sucks big time. And so is lugging your desktop to gaming club.
Moopy wrote: How many people play 40K and don't have a computer? I'd say plenty.
Really, because I don't know any. Granted, that is my own personal experience, but I've never met someone at a shop/etc that didn't own or have access to a computer, smart phone or other computing device. Beyond that, I don't know anyone in the US at least who doesn't have access to a print shop, internet cafe or other place you can go to print 4 pages of text for a nominal fee.
And they are a damn sight easier to get a hold of and use than trying to track down back issues of white dwarf were.
Swastakowey wrote: I tried printing them out but they came out wacky, because of all the drop down boxes and so on if printed like 4 pages for 1 page. Printing them sucks big time. And so is lugging your desktop to gaming club.
Drop down boxes? ePubs don't have drop down boxes... Are you talking about the iTunes version or something? I don't even think those have drop down boxes.
You just write down the numbers of the pages you want. Go to print and put in the page numbers you want printed...
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Moopy wrote: I guess jokes don't have to be funny anymore. : /
And I'm older than you Pretre.
Good for you. Apparently, you lost your sense of humor in your long slog towards your advanced age.
edit: In case you weren't familiar 'kids these days' is also a colloquial expression and doesn't necessarily mean that the person you are talking to is a kid. I feel like I'm having to explain a lot about how humans communicate to you...
I believe the Imperial Guard codex will be more than just Imperial guard- Like how Tau Empire has Kroot and Vespid, IG might include Auxila, Navy, and Mechanicus.
Harriticus wrote: Which is a shame, because $6.99 ~20 page supplements for Catachans, Vostroyans, Iron Guard, Valhallans, Mordians, etc would have been great.
I'm sorry, but that would be terrible.
The current Marine Codex (and the FWHH books for that matter) have shown us that you can do multiple armies in a single book without the need for pointless expansions and supplements. The Marine Codex contains what many other books (Eldar, Guard and especially Chaos) should have - fluff and rules sections for multiple different factions. It's not a difficult thing to do, and the fact that they don't do it more often is a sign of either greed or incompetence. Maybe both.
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: I believe the Imperial Guard codex will be more than just Imperial guard- Like how Tau Empire has Kroot and Vespid, IG might include Auxila, Navy, and Mechanicus.
Doesn't the current IG codex already have all of those? I thought that abhumans, naval officers, flyers, priests and techpriests weren't technically part of the Imperial Guard. Come to think of it; are commissars part of the guard, or a separate part of the departmento munitorum?
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: I believe the Imperial Guard codex will be more than just Imperial guard- Like how Tau Empire has Kroot and Vespid, IG might include Auxila, Navy, and Mechanicus.
Doesn't the current IG codex already have all of those? I thought that abhumans, naval officers, flyers, priests and techpriests weren't technically part of the Imperial Guard. Come to think of it; are commissars part of the guard, or a separate part of the departmento munitorum?
I think they will expand the entries and options... i.e. make a mechanicus army from the codex perhaps....
As much as I'd love to see all the IG armies get covered in a new 'dex, I think it's way beyond what GW is willing to do.
I'm excited for the new kits, if the rumor's ring true; ogryns have always been a unit I've wanted but refused to spend the money on. Veterans getting their own 'upgrade' kit is pretty cool but anyone who has an IG army of respectable size has enough bitz to make their own Vet's anyhow. Vehicle wise I'd like to see a complete Basilisk kit (I've wanted to field it's variants so many times now and not have to buy FW models), in addition to the rumored siege tank.
Of course now that the cynicism instilled in us by GW has hardened us to the possible 'dex changes, they'll pull a 180 and make it the best codex ever, complete with rules for every regiment, six new kits, and the book costs fifteen bucks.
Of course now that the cynicism instilled in us by GW has hardened us to the possible 'dex changes, they'll pull a 180 and make it the best codex ever, complete with rules for every regiment, six new kits, and the book costs fifteen bucks.
At $15 for a codex I might even stop playing Warmachine and buy a book and play 40k for a change. This carries even more weight since At $15 I wouldn't find it over priced, and would pay for it instead of procuring it by unscrupulous means.
Oh wishful thinking...
Oh, and for those that mention warmachine costing more than $15 for a book. I'll point out the one time investment of rule book, plus Tablet app covers you on everything for the current edition if you don't care about fluff.
The current Marine Codex (and the FWHH books for that matter) have shown us that you can do multiple armies in a single book without the need for pointless expansions and supplements. The Marine Codex contains what many other books (Eldar, Guard and especially Chaos) should have - fluff and rules sections for multiple different factions. It's not a difficult thing to do, and the fact that they don't do it more often is a sign of either greed or incompetence. Maybe both.
Exactly. Supplements should only be for significant deviations from the norm; like a traitor guard or genestealer cult army, rather than a new warlord traits table, a couple of characters and some FOC/Doctrine alterations. If the rules changes are less than 10 pages, put them in the main book.
Of course now that the cynicism instilled in us by GW has hardened us to the possible 'dex changes, they'll pull a 180 and make it the best codex ever, complete with rules for every regiment, six new kits, and the book costs fifteen bucks.
Dang, now you've spoiled it!
Exactly. Supplements should only be for significant deviations from the norm; like a traitor guard or genestealer cult army, rather than a new warlord traits table, a couple of characters and some FOC/Doctrine alterations. If the rules changes are less than 10 pages, put them in the main book.
I second that notion. Black Legion for example was completely and utterly redundant as the effective changes could be summed up on one page.
H.B.M.C. wrote: If they're going to do more supplements, make them meaningful ones and not throwaway arbitrary fluff expansions that detail a single bit of a greater whole. The Farsight Enclaves gave lots of information for a real faction of the Tau, and not some random Cadre of Fire Warriors. The Iyanden gave information for an entire Craftworld, not some specific Warhost within a Craftworld. More of that (if we must have more of anything). Less of the single-company nonsense.
In GW's mind, a supplement on one specific squad of ten space marines™ is the equivalent of a supplement on a whole family of species, like, say, a kroot supplement . Oh, well, that is not true actually. That was an understatement. I forgot how kroots got absolutely no supplement whatsoever, while a grand total of one (1) space marine™ was deemed worthy of a dataslate. Business as usual.
I just love the idea of these mini titans, unstoppable little bad asses.So you can bet your ass I will be getting one or three when they come out. I know many codex purists won't like them, and to be honest they won't likely become a staple of my lists as well, but they are cool and I like having an answer to those dirty Xenos walkers :p.Now I don't think they will be super heavies, or at least I hope not. One I don't think its needed, but who knows with GW. With an armor profile similar to a Leman russ and a walker, I don't think that would be bad at all, throw in a void shield, some awesome guns, and a few special rules and there you have it.Based of of Epic, there are many classes of Knights, ranging from fast CC units to long range firepower based ones. I really hope the full breadth of the Knights are brought with the release and it isn't just a couple of the same knights that you can bring.
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: I believe the Imperial Guard codex will be more than just Imperial guard- Like how Tau Empire has Kroot and Vespid, IG might include Auxila, Navy, and Mechanicus.
Doesn't the current IG codex already have all of those? I thought that abhumans, naval officers, flyers, priests and techpriests weren't technically part of the Imperial Guard. Come to think of it; are commissars part of the guard, or a separate part of the departmento munitorum?
Naval Officers are part of the Imperial Navy. They are not part of the Guard.
Techpriests are part of the admech. Since they are the suppliers of IG's war machines, they tend to tag along to make sure everything is running properly. Still not actually part of the Guard.
Priests are part of the Adeptus Ministorum. They aren't part of the Guard either.
Commissars are from the Commissariat, a part of the departmento munitorum. Closer to the Guard than the above, but as they don't follow the IG hierarchy, they aren't really part of IG.
I'd say, the amount of new rules is about equal, so rules per model-wise, cypher dataslate wins. I've read both and honestly, they seemed to have poured as much thought in the cypher sup as they did in the whole BL sup.
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: I just love the idea of these mini titans, unstoppable little bad asses.So you can bet your ass I will be getting one or three when they come out. I know many codex purists won't like them, and to be honest they won't likely become a staple of my lists as well, but they are cool and I like having an answer to those dirty Xenos walkers :p.Now I don't think they will be super heavies, or at least I hope not. One I don't think its needed, but who knows with GW. With an armor profile similar to a Leman russ and a walker, I don't think that would be bad at all, throw in a void shield, some awesome guns, and a few special rules and there you have it.Based of of Epic, there are many classes of Knights, ranging from fast CC units to long range firepower based ones. I really hope the full breadth of the Knights are brought with the release and it isn't just a couple of the same knights that you can bring.
They won't have you take named knights. You would just be able to choose the loadout that you want. Like, I want to buy the knight for 150 points and I want to keep the CC weapon and replace the bolters for a battlecannon for another 20 points, for a total of 170.
Also, I doubt they're gonna add void shields. Either it will become a walker like a dread, or less likely it will become an MC with 4-6 wounds. Looking at its comparisan to a SM it doesn't seem to be SH size.
I doubt they will be in the IG codex. I think if they were gonna be added to the game they'd be in the SM codex.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Cypher data slate. It was crammed with new fluff, had loads of rules to include him in multiple armies. Much more than any other dataslate and so it cost more.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Cypher data slate. It was crammed with new fluff, had loads of rules to include him in multiple armies. Much more than any other dataslate and so it cost more.
It was a good dataslate but cost too much just for rules for one guy. I wish the fluff was sold seperately. I wish there was a way to buy only the rules for dataslates, codexes, and rulebooks but GW would lose out on some money so we have to buy the fluff. I don't see that ever changing.
Speaking about rules-only editions: Now, not to say something unmentionable (and catch a hit with a power banhammer) but, you know, the supps and slates are released digital, so if you need the rules on your table, you have to print them out anyways. There is more than one way to obtain the original file for print.
Of course, I'm speaking about the iTunes store and the Black Library page, shame on you for thinking anything else *innocent whistle*
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: I believe the Imperial Guard codex will be more than just Imperial guard- Like how Tau Empire has Kroot and Vespid, IG might include Auxila, Navy, and Mechanicus.
I really, really hope not. The differences between the Ad Mech and the IG are as great as those between the IG and marines. OK guardsmen and poorly equipped Skittari could be represented by the same unit entry but beyond there is absolutely nothing in the IG that can be used to represent Praetorians or any of the other unique Ad Mech military forces. The Ad Mech really needs its own codex to do it justice. One of the old IG codexes tried to represent Skittari with one of its doctrines but it was basically guardsmen with some bionic bits. The rumoured inclusion of Knights (who have absolutely nothing to do with the IG) does lend some credance to the inclusion of Ad Mech style units but it is more probable that GW has butchered, I mean retconned, its fluff again.
The IN doesn't have any ground forces (it isn't allowed them except for honour guards and small shore parties who would be armed with shotguns, carapace armoured and not much else).
Auxillia would be reasonable as conscripts do fill that role at the moment (although they could really do with considerably expanded equipment options).
It was actually a web published "Supplement" for the 'doctrines' Guard book that "tried to represent Tech Guard" not Skittari.
And it was not a single doctrine that tried to do so, but rather they actually had posted a whole listing of doctrines in Black Gobbo that one might use for a "Tech Guard" force. Those doctrines were:
Iron Discipline
Sharpshooters
Cyber-Enhancement
Carapace Armor
Tech-Priest Engineseers
That resulted in units that had 4+ saves with a 6+ Invulnerable save, the ability to reroll a single "To Hit" roll of 1 that could use the leadership of an Officer or Senior Officer and ignore a -1 modifier for being under half strength and allowing for regrouping below half strength.
That whole thing though came with a "Genestealer Cult" set of doctrines that were...a bit strange.
Whether AdMech will be included or not depends on GWs relation with Forgeworld and their strategy.
I think it will go this way:
Since FW does have AdMech units allready, they will roll the maybe 1-2 new GW AdMech units (if any at all!) into the Guards Codex and maybe release a supplement or something, unless FW gets their own full-blown AdMech codex done (which I won't put past them). With the current state of the armies (models without overhaul since 3rd edition, ork codex still from 4th edition, tons of units still in metal and suchlike) I highly doubt whether GW will bother to introduce AdMech as a faction in their own right. So any mechanicus-fans out there should maybe rather pray to the FW-aspect of the Omnissiah for any divine favours.
Kanluwen wrote: It was actually a web published "Supplement" for the 'doctrines' Guard book that "tried to represent Tech Guard" not Skittari.
And it was not a single doctrine that tried to do so, but rather they actually had posted a whole listing of doctrines in Black Gobbo that one might use for a "Tech Guard" force. Those doctrines were:
Iron Discipline
Sharpshooters
Cyber-Enhancement
Carapace Armor
Tech-Priest Engineseers
Which were all in the main codex although the cyber enhancement doctrine was specifically included to represent 'tech guard' (Skittari by another name). Either way using an IG codex to represent the Ad Mech is at best a crude approximation.
And it would make your average squad cost, minus special and heavy weapons, almost twice the normal cost, clocking in at 110 pts if I remember the costs correctly.
Kanluwen wrote: That resulted in units that had 4+ saves with a 6+ Invulnerable save, the ability to reroll a single "To Hit" roll of 1 that could use the leadership of an Officer or Senior Officer and ignore a -1 modifier for being under half strength and allowing for regrouping below half strength.
And cost 11 points each. A horrendous set of Doctrines, including the second worst Doctrine (the actual worst being Hardened Fighters).
Kanluwen wrote: That resulted in units that had 4+ saves with a 6+ Invulnerable save, the ability to reroll a single "To Hit" roll of 1 that could use the leadership of an Officer or Senior Officer and ignore a -1 modifier for being under half strength and allowing for regrouping below half strength.
And cost 11 points each. A horrendous set of Doctrines, including the second worst Doctrine (the actual worst being Hardened Fighters).
Who cares, at least they where there! The option was available. I take things that arent worth it (and the majority of players do in my experience) simply because its cool or they have it as models and so forth. And frankly its better customization compaired to our current codex. I dotn care if they are bad I just want the options there.
Options with no use aren't options, they're the illusion of choice.
I would prefer GW actually hire real game designers who care about making good books with a scope beyond their own little play club. It doesn't take much effort to create decent useful options, the problem is they do not make rules for anything other than physical models which stifles creativity.
thats not really the point though. yes they were there but so useless in game terms that an army of based on those doctrines was barely even worth using. It was better to use the standard rules and model the standard guardsmen (or Veterans) as Skittari.
But most people arent bothered at all, (that I have ever seen). I have seen many really odd lists because people take what they want over whats good. Options are still options especially to casual players like me who like adding a bit of story or character to the army beyond the looks of a model.
GW rules are great for us casual gamers, because if the options are truley that bad, we can just edit them ourselves. But if the options are there already thats the groundwork for us already done.
As long as the options are there most people will be happy (unless they are on the internet I guess)
Swastakowey wrote: I have seen many really odd lists because people take what they want over whats good. )
As do I but there is a limit and that limit is crossed when basic troops choices are doubled in price, but certainly not in effectiveness, simply to be 'fluffy' (but even then they weren't really). In such cuircumstances I find its far better to simply rely upon the visual aspects of wargaming.
Swastakowey wrote: I have seen many really odd lists because people take what they want over whats good. )
As do I but there is a limit and that limit is crossed when basic troops choices are doubled in price, but certainly not in effectiveness, simply to be 'fluffy' (but even then they weren't really). In such cuircumstances I find its far better to simply rely upon the visual aspects of wargaming.
If thats the case the options wont fuss you then, because if they arent good then you will just make them look the part and be happy
In all seriousness though its also good not to get your hopes up, its easier when you arent competative though.
I'm really not although I do appreciate having an army list that is both 'competative' and 'fluffy'. Its just a shame that GW can rarely (if ever) manage either one, never mind both.
Anyway this is getting a little off topic but I suppose thats the nature of a rumour thread with no rumours
I'm really not although I do appreciate having an army list that is both 'competative' and 'fluffy'. Its just a shame that GW can rarely (if ever) manage either one, never mind both.
Anyway this is getting a little off topic but I suppose thats the nature of a rumour thread with no rumours
Personally I dont see whats wrong with forums going off topic, its how talking and ideas etc come up lol.
But yea I certainly see where you are coming from but id be happy with anything that allows my guardsmen to be different rules wise to the guardsmen down the road.
I'm really not although I do appreciate having an army list that is both 'competative' and 'fluffy'. Its just a shame that GW can rarely (if ever) manage either one, never mind both.
Anyway this is getting a little off topic but I suppose thats the nature of a rumour thread with no rumours
Personally I dont see whats wrong with forums going off topic, its how talking and ideas etc come up lol.
But yea I certainly see where you are coming from but id be happy with anything that allows my guardsmen to be different rules wise to the guardsmen down the road.
I agree too I would love some more rumors though.....
I really dont get it, upping heavy weapon squads to ten models is something I wanted for a long time and it made sense. If Devastators could have meat shields, why not guard?
I really cant see H' having problems with that, his IG army is of legendary size. He has more tanks than I could fit in my tiny London suburban flat and still have room to lie down and sleep. They are not so short of space in Oz.
Kirasu wrote: Options with no use aren't options, they're the illusion of choice.
I would prefer GW actually hire real game designers who care about making good books with a scope beyond their own little play club. It doesn't take much effort to create decent useful options, the problem is they do not make rules for anything other than physical models which stifles creativity.
I have to comment on this one, because this insanity came up during FAQ 2010 for BFG. WE actually HAD useful options on the table, and then got screaming flack from the fluff guys that we'd have to remove the options because one page in one book MIGHT be able to be interpreted as saying that Space Marines were forbidden lances (and that all other fluff examples that conflicted with this were just writers gettign it wrong). And so after much blood was shed in the war between fluff and game balance, the Marines were left with a nerfed lance option on strike cruisers with the express intent, according to the fluff guys, that no one would use it and of it would eventually be removed. The same issue came up with the Defiant class IN cruiser. As stands in BFG shes broken. No one will ever take this ship if they have any other option. The only viable way to fix it is to give it 2 str 2 launch bays. But because IN supposedly hates AC, the fact you have to jump through hoops already to have them in your fleet at all was deemed insufficiently nerfed. The fan version that's BFGR utterly abandoned good game design trying to struggle with the idea that there is only one way to fix it. The most hilarious thing I ever read in a forum was someone asking 'Well,what if we gave it 1.5 str launch bays per side? Would that make it strong enough to take without risking having IN AC spam?"
(There being no such thing as 'half a squadron' in BFG)
De Nile is no mere river in Egypt.
As opposed to one that was balanced for the points with other weapons.
I cant wait to see the end of the ten wound lascannon frankly.
Viable heavy weapons squads that done lose firepower after a hard stare can only be a good thing.
Regular infantry squads can have the heavy bolters so that the lasguns have something to do. Autocannon and grenade launcher squads have been growing on me also, reasonable synergy with each other and with the backup lasguns.
Next I want to see mobbing up to include more than just regular squads. I would be satisfied with a pairing up mechanic for all IG infantry, excepting the elites, Mob up a platoon command with a special squad, or mob up regular squads with heavy squads.
The complete lack of rumors for this release has me a little concerned. If it really was a March release I think we would have a lot more to talk about right now. Either Guard aren't next or they're farther down the road than we think like April or maybe even May.
I was really hoping for it to be march personally. My 3 month planned campaign was starting end of this month and I wanted something flash to use as my new codex.
Tower75 wrote: A giant walker? So, does this mean we get a HH-era tank "bigger than a Land Raider" as well as a giant walker?
I personally don't like the walker idea. Tracked vehicles all the way.
Actually, wheeled vehicles have 1/10th the upkeep costs, 1/6th of the maintenance requirements and can be constructed to have even better cross country mobility... In a mass army like the IG, I wonder why the only guard vehicles on wheels are the light tauros buggies.
I'm treating my own Knightly order as an autonomous organisation on the Imperial world of my Guard regiment. They don't belong to the Imperial Guard command structure, nor are they part of the Mechanicum. They can however be petitioned to lend their aid to campaigns undertaken by the regiments.
Tower75 wrote: A giant walker? So, does this mean we get a HH-era tank "bigger than a Land Raider" as well as a giant walker?
I personally don't like the walker idea. Tracked vehicles all the way.
Actually, wheeled vehicles have 1/10th the upkeep costs, 1/6th of the maintenance requirements and can be constructed to have even better cross country mobility... In a mass army like the IG, I wonder why the only guard vehicles on wheels are the light tauros buggies.
Don't bring logic into a 40K thread. You want to keep that thing as far away as possible from all of Imperium's vehicles. Flying bricks with no aerodynamic abilities whatsoever, tanks with less efficient design than the absolute worst WW2 contraptions, and overall technology basically less advanced than in the 21st century AD.
I doubt the IG get a walker. To me it sounds like someone heard the rumour about the upcoming dataslate Knights and confused them as being an IG-related release. I'm really curious what the new IG models are though, but frankly I don't have high hopes for them. Most of IG's vehicles look terrible and hopelessly outdated and it seems to me that GW wants to maintain that fugly aesthetic. The kit that GW could theoretically have some success with is the new veterans or guardsmen, and that would be a necessary update as well.
I'd hate them to be crammed into the Mechanicus just because.
Knights are organized into households/orders and are not part of the Adeptus Titanicus, but they are still part of/allied to the mechanicus rather than fully independent entities. You have groups like the House Devine who are more independent, and the Knights of Taranis who were part of the Crusade and now serve on Mars itself.
As I understand it it's the Mechanicus' arrival on feudal "Knight" worlds that brought the Houses into being, so on that basis it'd make sense to think of them as being part of/closely aligned to the Mechanicus. "A Mechanicus unit" is too much of an oversimplification though, I think. I've only been reading into it recently, though.
Bull0 wrote: As I understand it it's the Mechanicus' arrival on feudal "Knight" worlds that brought the Houses into being, so on that basis it'd make sense to think of them as being part of/closely aligned to the Mechanicus. "A Mechanicus unit" is too much of an oversimplification though, I think. I've only been reading into it recently, though.
Knight worlds are part of the Adeptus Mechanicus in the same way that Marines are part of the Imperium. They may be independent a small degree but they still pay homage to the Mars. I can see the fluff changing a little though as the Knight worlds were supposedly founded during the Age of Strife by the Ad Mech and that seems pretty unlikely.
The original fluff for Knight worlds has them copying Eldar Exodite Knights to create their own stompy robot men. I don't see that fluff surviving
Tower75 wrote: A giant walker? So, does this mean we get a HH-era tank "bigger than a Land Raider" as well as a giant walker?
I personally don't like the walker idea. Tracked vehicles all the way.
Actually, wheeled vehicles have 1/10th the upkeep costs, 1/6th of the maintenance requirements and can be constructed to have even better cross country mobility... In a mass army like the IG, I wonder why the only guard vehicles on wheels are the light tauros buggies.
Tracked vehicles have better cross-country performance at heavier weights. It's why no one makes a 70-ton MBT as a wheeled vehicle.
That and you can't say "Driver, track pad, troops" in a wheeled vehicle.
Tower75 wrote: A giant walker? So, does this mean we get a HH-era tank "bigger than a Land Raider" as well as a giant walker?
I personally don't like the walker idea. Tracked vehicles all the way.
Actually, wheeled vehicles have 1/10th the upkeep costs, 1/6th of the maintenance requirements and can be constructed to have even better cross country mobility... In a mass army like the IG, I wonder why the only guard vehicles on wheels are the light tauros buggies.
Tracked vehicles have better cross-country performance at heavier weights. It's why no one makes a 70-ton MBT as a wheeled vehicle.
That and you can't say "Driver, track pad, troops" in a wheeled vehicle.
Part of the guard look is an archaic old war style type warfare, guard as a whole should never look modernised as it defeats the look and idea they have had for ages. Its what has drawn me to the guard personally and if they modernise the guard to look "cooler" for the COD generation that we live in im gonna drop 40k haha.
This should help you out, wheels are better on road and are cheaper, thats why my country and its tiny arsenal of LAVs all use tyres. As we dont plan on going to war or paying much for our vehicles.
Tower75 wrote: A giant walker? So, does this mean we get a HH-era tank "bigger than a Land Raider" as well as a giant walker?
I personally don't like the walker idea. Tracked vehicles all the way.
Actually, wheeled vehicles have 1/10th the upkeep costs, 1/6th of the maintenance requirements and can be constructed to have even better cross country mobility... In a mass army like the IG, I wonder why the only guard vehicles on wheels are the light tauros buggies.
Tracked vehicles have better cross-country performance at heavier weights. It's why no one makes a 70-ton MBT as a wheeled vehicle.
That and you can't say "Driver, track pad, troops" in a wheeled vehicle.
Part of the guard look is an archaic old war style type warfare, guard as a whole should never look modernised as it defeats the look and idea they have had for ages. Its what has drawn me to the guard personally and if they modernise the guard to look "cooler" for the COD generation that we live in im gonna drop 40k haha.
This should help you out, wheels are better on road and are cheaper, thats why my country and its tiny arsenal of LAVs all use tyres. As we dont plan on going to war or paying much for our vehicles.
In any case wheels or tracks will not save you from Orcs, Hobbits, Ents, or Sauron, that is what the Eagle Brigade is for,
Tower75 wrote: A giant walker? So, does this mean we get a HH-era tank "bigger than a Land Raider" as well as a giant walker?
I personally don't like the walker idea. Tracked vehicles all the way.
Actually, wheeled vehicles have 1/10th the upkeep costs, 1/6th of the maintenance requirements and can be constructed to have even better cross country mobility... In a mass army like the IG, I wonder why the only guard vehicles on wheels are the light tauros buggies.
Tracked vehicles have better cross-country performance at heavier weights. It's why no one makes a 70-ton MBT as a wheeled vehicle.
That and you can't say "Driver, track pad, troops" in a wheeled vehicle.
Part of the guard look is an archaic old war style type warfare, guard as a whole should never look modernised as it defeats the look and idea they have had for ages. Its what has drawn me to the guard personally and if they modernise the guard to look "cooler" for the COD generation that we live in im gonna drop 40k haha.
This should help you out, wheels are better on road and are cheaper, thats why my country and its tiny arsenal of LAVs all use tyres. As we dont plan on going to war or paying much for our vehicles.
In any case wheels or tracks will not save you from Orcs, Hobbits, Ents, or Sauron, that is what the Eagle Brigade is for,
The eagles are a dramatisation of our flightless kiwi bird "A squadron". Not as effective as the movie depicts.
Tower75 wrote: A giant walker? So, does this mean we get a HH-era tank "bigger than a Land Raider" as well as a giant walker?
I personally don't like the walker idea. Tracked vehicles all the way.
Actually, wheeled vehicles have 1/10th the upkeep costs, 1/6th of the maintenance requirements and can be constructed to have even better cross country mobility... In a mass army like the IG, I wonder why the only guard vehicles on wheels are the light tauros buggies.
Tracked vehicles have better cross-country performance at heavier weights. It's why no one makes a 70-ton MBT as a wheeled vehicle.
That and you can't say "Driver, track pad, troops" in a wheeled vehicle.
Part of the guard look is an archaic old war style type warfare, guard as a whole should never look modernised as it defeats the look and idea they have had for ages. Its what has drawn me to the guard personally and if they modernise the guard to look "cooler" for the COD generation that we live in im gonna drop 40k haha.
This should help you out, wheels are better on road and are cheaper, thats why my country and its tiny arsenal of LAVs all use tyres. As we dont plan on going to war or paying much for our vehicles.
In any case wheels or tracks will not save you from Orcs, Hobbits, Ents, or Sauron, that is what the Eagle Brigade is for,
The eagles are a dramatisation of our flightless kiwi bird "A squadron". Not as effective as the movie depicts.
Oh, I disagree. They have the element of surpise on their side; no one would ever expect ground-based fliers.
Tower75 wrote: A giant walker? So, does this mean we get a HH-era tank "bigger than a Land Raider" as well as a giant walker?
I personally don't like the walker idea. Tracked vehicles all the way.
Actually, wheeled vehicles have 1/10th the upkeep costs, 1/6th of the maintenance requirements and can be constructed to have even better cross country mobility... In a mass army like the IG, I wonder why the only guard vehicles on wheels are the light tauros buggies.
Tracked vehicles have better cross-country performance at heavier weights. It's why no one makes a 70-ton MBT as a wheeled vehicle.
That and you can't say "Driver, track pad, troops" in a wheeled vehicle.
Part of the guard look is an archaic old war style type warfare, guard as a whole should never look modernised as it defeats the look and idea they have had for ages. Its what has drawn me to the guard personally and if they modernise the guard to look "cooler" for the COD generation that we live in im gonna drop 40k haha.
This should help you out, wheels are better on road and are cheaper, thats why my country and its tiny arsenal of LAVs all use tyres. As we dont plan on going to war or paying much for our vehicles.
In any case wheels or tracks will not save you from Orcs, Hobbits, Ents, or Sauron, that is what the Eagle Brigade is for,
The eagles are a dramatisation of our flightless kiwi bird "A squadron". Not as effective as the movie depicts.
Oh, I disagree. They have the element of surpise on their side; no one would ever expect ground-based fliers.
The next problem is due to their rarity they are too expensive for our economy to use them in battle you see, The loss of one will cripple our economy. Sheep however, can do the job without bankrupting us.
I need to be more patriotic and make one for my guard army. Its funny because I can walk down the road, get all the bits to make the tank (except the guns which are illegal) and assemble it in my yard, and its legal as long as I dont use it on roads haha. Ill put in rifles and go possum hunting in a technically military grade tank Its seriously just a shed put on top of a tracor...
Dont get me started on ork influence on NZ, its a consipiracy I swear...
Too bad 40k Radio has a good rumour record.
Only thing I don't get is this "Catachans are not going to direct only", because they already ARE completely!
Commissars Squads as plugins to other Imperial armies.
"Not one step back men! The Emperor orders us to take not one step back."
"We are withdrawing to a better firing position."
"I'll execute you for cowardice and heresy if you dare move from that spot."
"I am Terminator Sergeant Lucius Verran, the Blade of Kilnar, veteran of thirty campaigns and have served the Brazen Skulls Chapter for over 300 years. But no, little man, take out your Laspistol and wave it in my face for 'cowardice'. Let's see who wins this particular battle."
"Uhh... carry on, Sergeant. My squad will... umm... hold the ridge ourselves."
"You do that. Squad Verran, move out."
40k Radio on Facebook wrote:Astra Militarium (Imperial Guard):
Stormtroopers (plastic)
Bullgryns (old Ogryns)
Commissar Squads
New Larger Transport
So no Oggies with riot shields? Sad.
Commissar squads though could be fun. Although I don't see the point to them. Unless of course you buy 'X' Commies in 1 squad and then peel them off and attach them to other squads.
Wonder if Stormtroopers in plastic means just that, or if they'll still be the rumoured vets/storm duel kit.
Indeed, not sure what the use would be in regards to a whole squad of Hangmen. If it's like the Wolf Guard being bought as a squad but then broken up across the army, neat, but if this is GW's attempt at say, an Imperial Guard oriented assault squad, ha, ha, ha.. Nope.
Or maybe it's like the Apocalyptic datasheet found in Pandorax, where they buff units within a certain radius.
BrookM wrote: Indeed, not sure what the use would be in regards to a whole squad of Hangmen. If it's like the Wolf Guard being bought as a squad but then broken up across the army, neat, but if this is GW's attempt at say, an Imperial Guard oriented assault squad, ha, ha, ha.. Nope.
Or maybe it's like the Apocalyptic datasheet found in Pandorax, where they buff units within a certain radius.
Well, according to Lexicanum, if these guys are a Cadet Commissar squad, they would be extremely brave troops that would fight hard to the end to prove their worth. The "sarge" would be a proper commissar, and they would provide a massive morale boost to nearby units, since apparently "any force which has a Cadet Commissar squad attached to them feels destined for victory".
Probably not super awesome gamewise, but it would be awesome to see a small squad of commissar cadets able to give morale boosts to all units within 12" of them or something like that.
1. 'Special Weapons' squad. and will Heavy stubber becomes one too? Chaos Cultists fielded ones in large numbers and it appears to work as SAW rather than HMG
2. The new 'veteran' rule is to prevent 'Veterans overkill'. but does it means player can't equip vets with HW and SpecialWeapons in the same section? meow
3. New Rough Riders. will they get their carabines back too? and what will be mounts for them (Horses or Bikes)? will they be Attilans or cadians?
4. And will regular sarge gets an option to use rifle instead of pistol+ccw back?
Well, according to Lexicanum, if these guys are a Cadet Commissar squad, they would be extremely brave troops that would fight hard to the end to prove their worth. The "sarge" would be a proper commissar, and they would provide a massive morale boost to nearby units, since apparently "any force which has a Cadet Commissar squad attached to them feels destined for victory".
This is what I suspect (hope) that they are. Commissars are already far too common on 40k battlefields as it is.
Well, according to Lexicanum, if these guys are a Cadet Commissar squad, they would be extremely brave troops that would fight hard to the end to prove their worth. The "sarge" would be a proper commissar, and they would provide a massive morale boost to nearby units, since apparently "any force which has a Cadet Commissar squad attached to them feels destined for victory".
This is what I suspect (hope) that they are. Commissars are already far too common on 40k battlefields as it is.
Not nearly as common as they used to be. Ever since 6th hit I've seen them die off sharply in most players' armies, even infantry guard players. They just got sniped easily and it made you wonder why you bothered sometimes. That said, watching a commissar chuck 7 Guardsmen in front of him and pass five +6 saves from a single unit shooting has to be one of the funniest/most inspirational things I've ever seen. Too bad he got stomped trying to charge a Hive Tyrant the next turn
Honestly, seeing more than one or two commissars never really bothered me, since the reasons why you would see them usually matched up the way they were played. If you were going to send a ton of guardsmen into close combat assaults with the most horrifying creatures in the galaxy, I'd imagine you would need a higher concentration of Commissars than normal.
Lone Cat wrote: 1. 'Special Weapons' squad. and will Heavy stubber becomes one too? Chaos Cultists fielded ones in large numbers and it appears to work as SAW rather than HMG
Lone Cat wrote: 1. 'Special Weapons' squad. and will Heavy stubber becomes one too? Chaos Cultists fielded ones in large numbers and it appears to work as SAW rather than HMG
H.B.M.C. wrote: Commissars Squads as plugins to other Imperial armies.
"Not one step back men! The Emperor orders us to take not one step back."
"We are withdrawing to a better firing position."
"I'll execute you for cowardice and heresy if you dare move from that spot."
"I am Terminator Sergeant Lucius Verran, the Blade of Kilnar, veteran of thirty campaigns and have served the Brazen Skulls Chapter for over 300 years. But no, little man, take out your Laspistol and wave it in my face for 'cowardice'. Let's see who wins this particular battle."
"Uhh... carry on, Sergeant. My squad will... umm... hold the ridge ourselves."
"You do that. Squad Verran, move out."
I was very sad when GW changed the rules so that allied commissars attached to other armies wouldn't execute them. I was going to troll every apocalypse game by bringing a commissar for every squad on my side and seeing how many ancient heroes of the Imperium I could execute for cowardice.
ph34r wrote: I'll say again, if we get commissar squad instead of something actually important like medusa and colossus model variants I will f#$%#$Ying explode.
Make new units vs give old units?
Nope. That's not the GW way. Instead:
1. Units w/no model = cut from Codex.
2. Make new units instead.
3. ?????
4. Increasing prices and reduced volume = nil growth!
I'd've put "profits", as is usually the joke for the number 4 item on that list, but we are talking about GW here.
The obviously aren't anymore when near enough every squad can have one of its very own. It used to be that the majority of regiments were only allocated one, unless they were very large or unruly.
All this stuff about Bullgryns and Commissar squads is unencouraging.
Commissars in their current state, without a massive revamp suck compared to Inquisitors in practically every way, and are cheaper, and get gimmicks that are insane.
Ogryns are probably going to be naff models and have naffer rules, and we really don't need another transport.
Plastic Stormies is just about the only thing that sounds decent.
But what about my frigging Rough Riders? The single unit I probably most want to try but flat out can't because the metal models are garbage and converting them is a horrific affair. I can live without plastic Stormies, I've put buying the metal models on hold because I expect them to get a plastic kit but I certainly have no real issue with the metal kits.
Snrub wrote: I was looking for a source on what you said. I wasn't looking for you to just say it again.
The Codex Imperialis gives there numbers of between 1 and several for very large regiments (page 30 if you really, really want to check which given your tone you doubtless are eager to), and probably just about every publication that has any significant Imperial Guard involvement all the way until 3rd ed.
Part of the guard look is an archaic old war style type warfare, guard as a whole should never look modernised as it defeats the look and idea they have had for ages. Its what has drawn me to the guard personally and if they modernise the guard to look "cooler" for the COD generation that we live in im gonna drop 40k haha.
This should help you out, wheels are better on road and are cheaper, thats why my country and its tiny arsenal of LAVs all use tyres. As we dont plan on going to war or paying much for our vehicles.
It isn't about modernizing the models for the COD generation- one of the things that drew me into IG from CSM is the fact that I can relate to the models. (I'm currently deployed in Afghanistan) While I love the concept of WW1 in space I really enjoy the fact that my plastic space army sometimes looks like me and carries a lot of the same equipment. I know quite a few guys in the Marines that play Ultramarine armies specifically because they're the Ultramarines, of the Space Marines, because they are also Marines. So, you know.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Commissars Squads as plugins to other Imperial armies.
"Not one step back men! The Emperor orders us to take not one step back."
"We are withdrawing to a better firing position."
"I'll execute you for cowardice and heresy if you dare move from that spot."
"I am Terminator Sergeant Lucius Verran, the Blade of Kilnar, veteran of thirty campaigns and have served the Brazen Skulls Chapter for over 300 years. But no, little man, take out your Laspistol and wave it in my face for 'cowardice'. Let's see who wins this particular battle."
*Pschiiiit*
"Any of you men want to disobey the direct orders from your commissar like that dead dude here ?"
H.B.M.C. wrote: Commissars Squads as plugins to other Imperial armies.
"Not one step back men! The Emperor orders us to take not one step back."
"We are withdrawing to a better firing position."
"I'll execute you for cowardice and heresy if you dare move from that spot."
"I am Terminator Sergeant Lucius Verran, the Blade of Kilnar, veteran of thirty campaigns and have served the Brazen Skulls Chapter for over 300 years. But no, little man, take out your Laspistol and wave it in my face for 'cowardice'. Let's see who wins this particular battle."
*Pschiiiit*
"Any of you men want to disobey the direct orders from your commissar like that dead dude here ?"
H.B.M.C. wrote: Commissars Squads as plugins to other Imperial armies.
"Not one step back men! The Emperor orders us to take not one step back."
"We are withdrawing to a better firing position."
"I'll execute you for cowardice and heresy if you dare move from that spot."
"I am Terminator Sergeant Lucius Verran, the Blade of Kilnar, veteran of thirty campaigns and have served the Brazen Skulls Chapter for over 300 years. But no, little man, take out your Laspistol and wave it in my face for 'cowardice'. Let's see who wins this particular battle."
*Pschiiiit*
"Any of you men want to disobey the direct orders from your commissar like that dead dude here ?"
Fixed that for you .
Rolled on an armour save?
Given Terminator Sargeants usually don't wear helmets
Snrub wrote: I was looking for a source on what you said. I wasn't looking for you to just say it again.
The Codex Imperialis gives there numbers of between 1 and several for very large regiments (page 30 if you really, really want to check which given your tone you doubtless are eager to), and probably just about every publication that has any significant Imperial Guard involvement all the way until 3rd ed.
It really seems to vary these days. Average seems to be one or two, with more being sent to units sent to extremely volatile deployments or very unruly regiments.
If you're wanting to rationalize seeing a few commissars at a company scale battle like what you'd see in 40k, you could always say that this is the focus of the attack. Perhaps command realized that these troops needed motivation more than most and attached a few commissars from the division level, or these are cadets given a chance to prove their worth (would be cool to see with a lord leading your force). There's plenty of ways to help it make sense. It's not like you're fielding IG allied with Necrons or something.
It changed with the 3rd ed IG codex, although I don't think that the fluff has ever been explicitly changed. Personally I only ever field 1 Commissar (if I field one at all) as I see them as being a assigned to formations of Company size or larger.
Mr.Omega wrote: All this stuff about Bullgryns and Commissar squads is unencouraging.
Commissars in their current state, without a massive revamp suck compared to Inquisitors in practically every way, and are cheaper, and get gimmicks that are insane.
Well you can't really compare Commissars from a codex written in 2009 to Inquisitors who take advantage of the Allies system and have all their own silly rules. That's like comparing Commissars to Azrael. Expect things to change.
Not only the no-helmet policy for leader may come into play here, but I guess the Commissariat knows that Commissar send into Marines chapter need extra wargear. It is way easier to execute a marine officer with cowardice with an inferno pistol .
And IG is lacking of this style of weapon, while SAW could be repesented by lasgun/autogun, it actually more powerful, has slightly more range, and can suppress enemy without the need to setup firing emplacement. Heavy stubber should do this function. or isn't it?
BrookM wrote: Not sure why they'd need a heavy stubber option, not unless they change it from heavy 3 to assault 3.
Cultists got it, thus people think Guard need it.
Personally? I don't want a Heavy Stubber option for Guard infantry. Stubbers are pintle mounted weapons for the Guard and really only 'fit' as support/heavy weapons for the PDF and ill-equipped Cultists who have looted PDF armories in my mind.
BrookM wrote: Not sure why they'd need a heavy stubber option, not unless they change it from heavy 3 to assault 3.
Give it to an Ogryn! The renegades from the old LatD list had it all figured with their assault heavy stubber wielding giant mutants.
Why? They have Ripper guns now, a bit higher on strength, no AP, but assault 3, so again, why?
No particular reason, I just remembered that they had the only 'Assault' Heavy Stubbers that ever existed, and found it amusing. That's all. I wasn't saying it would be good or anything.
Gah, that's why I don't post - I'm really bad at making jokes on the Internet.
Krieg have heavy stubbers, their advantage over the heavy bolters is that they're twinlinked, but that's about it, its shame, because I like the weapon, but its terrible.
Even worse for Grenadiers, who get a 36'' range heavy weapon to complement their 18'' range hellguns.
It's really a useless upgrade that I only personally use on tanks because I like the look of it, but outside of that, it's got zero uses inside of the army.
Well I'd like the option of stubbers as my army is a PDF force..I think it's nice to play up the differences between IG and SM too. Heavy Bolters always seemed quite Marine-y to me, I'd like to see options for Heavy teams to have stubbers and Multilasers. Vive la difference..
RandyMcStab wrote: Well I'd like the option of stubbers as my army is a PDF force..I think it's nice to play up the differences between IG and SM too. Heavy Bolters always seemed quite Marine-y to me, I'd like to see options for Heavy teams to have stubbers and Multilasers. Vive la difference..
There's already a difference...
Heavy Bolters on Marines are carried by a single guy and are pretty much considered standard issue kit for their heavy weapon operators at this point. Hell even Scouts can carry a Heavy Bolter without power armor.
Heavy Bolters for the Guard are vehicle mounted or slogged around by two guys to be used as a perimeter defense weapon--which in some regiments actually will be ditched in favor of the Autocannons instead.
Multilasers are never really "emplaced" because of the energy requirements necessary for sustained fire, and stubbers are pretty much a joke weapon compared to everything else that could be taken as a heavy weapon option.
I have seen the models, but I don't see why more options is bad. Maybe I want poorly equipped troops for my Garrison Guard, they can be made twin linked and very low cost etc, you don't have to field them.
Fluff energy requirements tend to vanish with expediency all the time so there's no reason they couldn't have a tripod mounted version, because space science.
See I would love the option to take Multilaser heavy weapon teams, theres a lot to be said for the utility of strength 6, even if its only AP6. It can come in handy at the oddest times. Need to pen a dark eldar raider? Multi laser can do it! Need to put some wounds on bikers? Multi laser still wounds on a 2 or 3. The difference between 3 shot multi lasers and 2 shot autocannons can make all the difference.
It just wouldn't work within 40ks rules, there is far too much emphasis placed on squad upgrades so somthing as relatively weak as a heavy stubber would only work if it was optional and free.
There is another option though, Rogue Trader has the Echon pattern assault stubber, a cut down heavy stubber that is used as a personal weapon. I could see special units armed with these weapons (something along the lines of an assault 3 autogun) instead of lasguns.
Part of the guard look is an archaic old war style type warfare, guard as a whole should never look modernised as it defeats the look and idea they have had for ages. Its what has drawn me to the guard personally and if they modernise the guard to look "cooler" for the COD generation that we live in im gonna drop 40k haha.
This should help you out, wheels are better on road and are cheaper, thats why my country and its tiny arsenal of LAVs all use tyres. As we dont plan on going to war or paying much for our vehicles.
It isn't about modernizing the models for the COD generation- one of the things that drew me into IG from CSM is the fact that I can relate to the models. (I'm currently deployed in Afghanistan) While I love the concept of WW1 in space I really enjoy the fact that my plastic space army sometimes looks like me and carries a lot of the same equipment. I know quite a few guys in the Marines that play Ultramarine armies specifically because they're the Ultramarines, of the Space Marines, because they are also Marines. So, you know.
All well and good, at the end of the day it comes down to taste. But I personally like the old style guard metal regiment look (they had heaps of gear, detailed uniforms and so forth) which I think they lack now, I'd love for them to have more gear and so forth but changing them into a more modern force over all is something that would put me off. But as I always say guard is about variation and personalisation, GW could have all these cool regiments that fits everyones taste, much like the elysian drop troops looking more modern in contrast to death corps of krieg looking historic ish and then everybody is happy.
I can see where you are coming from, just like you can probably see where im coming from. Thats why we should be thankfull there are so many other models out there, for example you can buy wheels that are designed to fit a chimera (cant remember which store), you can buy 28mm modern soldiers and imperiumunisesation them up to look all 40k and the list goes on.
But yes I agree, its always personal taste, I guess I just dont want to see guard become generic future soldiers like in a lot of Sci Fi themed material.
Palindrome wrote: It just wouldn't work within 40ks rules, there is far too much emphasis placed on squad upgrades so somthing as relatively weak as a heavy stubber would only work if it was optional and free.
There is another option though, Rogue Trader has the Echon pattern assault stubber, a cut down heavy stubber that is used as a personal weapon. I could see special units armed with these weapons (something along the lines of an assault 3 autogun) instead of lasguns.
What's the point?
There's already "assault lasguns" that are more powerful. They're called Hellguns.
And I refuse to acknowledge anyone saying they're called "Hot-shot Lasguns". That sounds like something from a GI Joe cartoon.
There's already "assault lasguns" that are more powerful. They're called Hellguns.
And I refuse to acknowledge anyone saying they're called "Hot-shot Lasguns". That sounds like something from a GI Joe cartoon.
1. variety
2. Compeltely different effect and usage.
3. They used to be Hotshot lasguns, now a hotshot pack simply makes indivial shots more.
If people can't justify using Stormtroopers now, who pack Hellguns(which are NOT the same thing as "Hot-Shot" Lasguns--which are just Lasguns packing a "Hot-Shot" power cell), who can be able to justify using a gimmicky unit packing Stubbers?
Variety is all well and good, but throwing more options in for the sake of throwing more options in when you could actually work off the existing options is silly.
I could very well see Hellguns becoming more widespread though. Veterans could easily be given them as part of the "Carapace" upgrade.
I wouldn't worry too much about Stormies. They've never had good rules. Never. GW is as consistent with giving Stormies bad rules as they are with calling them Storm Troopers (rather than Stormtroopers). If they get good rules it'll be amazing.
This should help you out, wheels are better on road and are cheaper, thats why my country and its tiny arsenal of LAVs all use tyres. As we dont plan on going to war or paying much for our vehicles.
Well, read your source. It states that to benefit from the advantages the vehicle should be heavier than 20 tons.
Army studies unanimously conclude that a tracked configuration is the optimal solution for tactical, high-mobility roles (off-road usage greater than 60 percent), gross vehicle weights in excess of 20 tons,...
So yes, for MBT and heavy tanks there is no alternative to tracks but for APCs, such as the chimera, which is a mediocre-armed troop carrier, wheels are much better. Case in point: BTR-90. Weights ~ 20 tons, swims, 100 km/h cross-country speed possible, jumping height of I think 130 cm (that is, the vehicle can drive over a "step" with 1,30m and differential drive (means it can turn on the spot like a tank). It even looks a bit like a chimera, though GW clearly copied the BMP design for them. Try to get these results with a tracked vehicle.
This should help you out, wheels are better on road and are cheaper, thats why my country and its tiny arsenal of LAVs all use tyres. As we dont plan on going to war or paying much for our vehicles.
Well, read your source. It states that to benefit from the advantages the vehicle should be heavier than 20 tons.
Army studies unanimously conclude that a tracked configuration is the optimal solution for tactical, high-mobility roles (off-road usage greater than 60 percent), gross vehicle weights in excess of 20 tons,...
So yes, for MBT and heavy tanks there is no alternative to tracks but for APCs, such as the chimera, which is a mediocre-armed troop carrier, wheels are much better. Case in point: BTR-90. Weights ~ 20 tons, swims, 100 km/h cross-country speed possible, jumping height of I think 130 cm (that is, the vehicle can drive over a "step" with 1,30m and differential drive (means it can turn on the spot like a tank). It even looks a bit like a chimera, though GW clearly copied the BMP design for them. Try to get these results with a tracked vehicle.
yea I know, but (I cant remember if it was in there) Tyres are very vulnerable to any type of weapon, greaty reducing its practicality if they get damaged. So chimeras riding towards enemy firing positions with tyres is not the best idea. On top of that who knows where the chimera will be fighting. Even see a digger with wheels? (here in NZ they all have tracks due to our dense forests). So in my opinion from reading around tracks are the "safe" option for the style of warfare in 40k as its gonna work on all terrain (even water... ) and tracks are a bit sturdier to against a lot of weapon types over tyres.
In saying that a tank with no tracks is stuck, a car with flat tyres can at least move.
I understand the benifits for both but I see tracks on a chimera designed to go anywhere in any situation as a more practical solution to tyres.
But im no military engineer/mechanic etc haha so its just opinion.
So yes, for MBT and heavy tanks there is no alternative to tracks but for APCs, such as the chimera, which is a mediocre-armed troop carrier, wheels are much better. Case in point: BTR-90. Weights ~ 20 tons, swims, 100 km/h cross-country speed possible, jumping height of I think 130 cm (that is, the vehicle can drive over a "step" with 1,30m and differential drive (means it can turn on the spot like a tank). It even looks a bit like a chimera, though GW clearly copied the BMP design for them. Try to get these results with a tracked vehicle.
Damn Godless Commies stealing GW's IP for their military vehicles. Don't they have shame?
On topic how about a stubber for IG squads priced like the flamethrower or the GL?
Therion wrote: So what's the current rumor on the new stuff IG gets? I find the first post awfully confusing.
A new veteran/stormtroopers kit, plastic ogryns, and what else?
Plastic Ogryn with some sort of assault shield option
Plastic stormtrooper/vet kit
Possibly new all in one artillery kit
Possibly adding FW units to codex like Thunderer and Destroyer
Possible name change
Ogryn I'm sure almost noone wants. Stormtroopers/vets are great and probably the most important kit in a long time. The all new tanks that already exist from Forgeworld of course are nearly useless, and I'm pretty surprised they're not adding anything actually new.
Why not give the model with the stubber the slow and purposeful rule, so he can be more mobile but he slows the squad down still. That way its an in between support weapon crewed by one guy.
A special weapon that gives THE USER slow and purposeful.
I cant see any holes in that one but who knows, its 40k
Swastakowey wrote: Why not give the model with the stubber the slow and purposeful rule, so he can be more mobile but he slows the squad down still. That way its an in between support weapon crewed by one guy.
A special weapon that gives THE USER slow and purposeful.
I cant see any holes in that one but who knows, its 40k
Why does this have to be so complicated?
Just use the cultist rules for one.
5pts. Heavy 3. One man. Takes up special weapon slot. Might be fun to stick in a cheap meatshield platoon of guardsmen in low points games. Pretty much pointless, but would be fun to model.
Swastakowey wrote: Because I want a mobile machine gun, not a weak half heavy bolter lol.
Its not complicated to know that your squad cant run or over run but can move and fire its stubber. (in my opinion).
It is mobile, you'll just be hitting on 6's.
Honestly you could just make it assault 3 and at 5pts it still wouldn't be broken.
Also, you'd be having a single special weapon out of several choices that doesn't just affect the guy carrying it but the entire squad. Giving an entire squad Slow and purposeful can have some unintended side effects (If I remember correctly, a single model having Slow and Purposeful gives the rule to the entire squad, similar to stubborn) Suddenly your IG platoon would be able to fire all it's heavy weapons at full ROF on the move with 0 penalties.
That's why it would be too complicated. It would open up the door to a lot of shenanigans and honestly, if a massive heavy weapon like a lascannon doesn't slow a squad down, why on earth would a single stubber do so?
Therion wrote: So what's the current rumor on the new stuff IG gets? I find the first post awfully confusing.
A new veteran/stormtroopers kit, plastic ogryns, and what else?
Plastic Ogryn with some sort of assault shield option
Plastic stormtrooper/vet kit
Possibly new all in one artillery kit
Possibly adding FW units to codex like Thunderer and Destroyer
Possible name change
Ogryn I'm sure almost noone wants. Stormtroopers/vets are great and probably the most important kit in a long time. The all new tanks that already exist from Forgeworld of course are nearly useless, and I'm pretty surprised they're not adding anything actually new.
I want affordable(points cost) Ogryn in the worst way. Commissar Yarrick Rollin deep with a unit of Ogryn is a dream of mine. Plus, I'm workin on a themed army that they would fit so well in.
Same with Rough Riders and Psychic Choirs no doubt, got half a squadron of the first and a full squad plus overseer of the latter, with custom Chimera in the works. Wouldn't surprise me at all.
vic wrote: Mods. Can we please have one thread for actual news, and another for wishlists.
There simply arent enough rumours to sustain a thread on one of the most popular armies in 40k. Wish listing is inevitable and the only way to stop it is to have a locked thread that is updated by a mod. At least this thread hasnt gone as far astray as the last one did.
When I think that the PP keynote genuinely got me excited about buying Cephalyx models for a game I don't even play, these GW trailers make me cry in frustration. The phrase "What is the point?" screams to mind.
I seem to recall that FFG also introduced a PPsH 41 style assault lasgun with short range and an even higher rate of fire. I think that would be an interesting upgrade to the standard infantry blob.
BaronIveagh wrote: I seem to recall that FFG also introduced a PPsH 41 style assault lasgun with short range and an even higher rate of fire. I think that would be an interesting upgrade to the standard infantry blob.
Like an assault 2 18" lasgun or something? It just seems like it'd be overlapping its role with shotguns an awful lot. I do think shotguns for sergeants would be a neat little upgrade, just character-wise.
I do not understand all the fuss over page 5. I am not even sure what page 5 is about. Something like “Do not be a dick” and “Do not whine” or something.
Like an assault 2 18" lasgun or something? It just seems like it'd be overlapping its role with shotguns an awful lot. I do think shotguns for sergeants would be a neat little upgrade, just character-wise.
Umm.... more like Assault 3 or 4 (if I have the math right), but take a pen on BS.
vic wrote: Mods. Can we please have one thread for actual news, and another for wishlists.
Welcome to every IG rumor thread ever
I think its safe to say that IG is not until April at the earliest. If the book was coming in March, we would have far more rumors than we have right now.
vic wrote: Mods. Can we please have one thread for actual news, and another for wishlists.
Welcome to every IG rumor thread ever
I think its safe to say that IG is not until April at the earliest. If the book was coming in March, we would have far more rumors than we have right now.
That's what I have been thinking. If it were in March, we DEFINITELY would have pictures by now.
vic wrote: Mods. Can we please have one thread for actual news, and another for wishlists.
Welcome to every IG rumor thread ever
I think its safe to say that IG is not until April at the earliest. If the book was coming in March, we would have far more rumors than we have right now.
Well GW has been following the 40K, fantasy, 40K pattern for quite some time now haven't they? It would be odd if they would just break that pattern all of a sudden. Maybe if Codex: Tyranids did really poorly.
Okay, I'm slow on the uptake here. I know everything is rumours still, but assuming the rumour-mill is on course here, do I assume that the Guard get their "bigger than a Land Raider tank" as well as this Knight Paladin thing?
Or do we think the tank is going to be a no-show now?
Tower75 wrote: Okay, I'm slow on the uptake here. I know everything is rumours still, but assuming the rumour-mill is on course here, do I assume that the Guard get their "bigger than a Land Raider tank" as well as this Knight Paladin thing?
Or do we think the tank is going to be a no-show now?
I have heard nothing even remotely credible regarding a new tank for rumors. Closing this is that FW might be "allowed" in the new codex, so we may possibly be allowed to use things like a Macharius or Malchador, though I would really doubt it.
Tower75 wrote: Okay, I'm slow on the uptake here. I know everything is rumours still, but assuming the rumour-mill is on course here, do I assume that the Guard get their "bigger than a Land Raider tank" as well as this Knight Paladin thing?
Or do we think the tank is going to be a no-show now?
I have heard nothing even remotely credible regarding a new tank for rumors. Closing this is that FW might be "allowed" in the new codex, so we may possibly be allowed to use things like a Macharius or Malchador, though I would really doubt it.
Bugger. This would make me sad. Personally I'd much prefer a new "Ubertank" than a Knight. Seems like Games Workshop got hit in the head and now they think it's 1995 and Epic is back in full swing. A lotta Monstrous Creature walkers coming out.
Tower75 wrote: Okay, I'm slow on the uptake here. I know everything is rumours still, but assuming the rumour-mill is on course here, do I assume that the Guard get their "bigger than a Land Raider tank" as well as this Knight Paladin thing?
Or do we think the tank is going to be a no-show now?
Knights are their own thing that can be allied with various Imperial armies, including IG. They're not part of the IG release. There aren't really many credible rumors on IG right now.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: I do not understand all the fuss over page 5. I am not even sure what page 5 is about. Something like “Do not be a dick” and “Do not whine” or something.
Page 5 is the official authorization by the staff themselves to play "Like you've got a pair" that means full bore no holds bar cheese fest.
The biggest problem is that I enjoy walkers, but their so fragile now with all of the S7/8 shots that they are border line pointless. I can field an entire lascannon formation of 37 guns for my Guard and kill a titan a turn with them. Do you honestly believe your piddly walkers with 4 hull points stands a chance?
BunkerBob wrote: Page 5 is the official authorization by the staff themselves to play "Like you've got a pair" that means full bore no holds bar cheese fest.
Yeah, but I never did that. I only plays a Captain Gunnbjorn fluff theme army. And I do not mean tier list, I really mean that all my trolls have powder weapons : blitzer, bomber, sluggers, burrowers, bushwackers, thumpers…
What is the point of having models and fluff if you end up only caring about the rules ? Might as well play with cards put on bases or something.
And nobody waits for the authorization of the staff to do that anyway.
The Storm Troopers, Salamanders and the plastic Thunderbolt have me interested. I was about to order the FW Thunderbolt, and I might still get it. I like the detail the resin kits have more than the plastic. The Salamanders on the other hand would be piles cheaper (maybe) and the detail most likely won't be much different. I am surprised there is nothing for the big tank Tower75 asked about. The 40k guy at my FLGS said there would be one and has been right about all the rumors i've talked to him about so far. Gaaa... Have to wait another 2-3 months before I know now.
I wish they would bring back the Autogun as an impy primary weapon choice, I think that was 4th edition rulebook you could last take one.
I love the idea of building a real backwater army using propellant weapons with no las or plasma etc, mainly for fluff rather than playing but it would look awesome.
throwoff wrote: I wish they would bring back the Autogun as an impy primary weapon choice, I think that was 4th edition rulebook you could last take one.
I love the idea of building a real backwater army using propellant weapons with no las or plasma etc, mainly for fluff rather than playing but it would look awesome.
Given there's no difference between an Autogun and a Lasgun, why not do it anyway?
More the effort of tracking down enough autoguns than anything else, with the weapons options you get in a marine squad etc now I couldn't see it being too much difficulty for GW to add a dozen autoguns to a guard squad sprue.
If I did want to play with it though I would like to see the autogun readded to the rule book, personally I would see it as 'assault' rather than rapid fire.
The backwater guard army has been my 'fantasy' army for a long long time, I will do it eventually!
throwoff wrote: More the effort of tracking down enough autoguns than anything else, with the weapons options you get in a marine squad etc now I couldn't see it being too much difficulty for GW to add a dozen autoguns to a guard squad sprue.
If I did want to play with it though I would like to see the autogun readded to the rule book, personally I would see it as 'assault' rather than rapid fire.
The backwater guard army has been my 'fantasy' army for a long long time, I will do it eventually!
Fair enough. Although there are innumerable third parties producing autogun like models I can certainly see why in-box ones would be desirable.
You do know that the autogun is in the main rulebook right? Chaos Cultists use it, and it's stats are identical to the lasgun. So it'll take a little bit more than a new guard codex to differentiate them.
The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.
For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.
On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.
Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.
Mr.Omega wrote: The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.
For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.
On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.
Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.
Lol, if your guard play like mine, you'd use less then 50 rounds per engagement total. They more or less score and die. Its the other weapons that matter.
Mr.Omega wrote: The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.
For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.
On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.
Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.
Unless they use some kind of air rifle and are given huge chunks of lead to melt into their own bullets. Also the imperial guard has gone to great legnths to preserve the cultures and fighting styles of each planet. There could be millions of reasons why, it could be part of the religion of that planet for example. Or they simply lack the tech to have lasguns (as happened a few times in gaunts ghosts) and so on.
I mean, if guard can use bows and arrows, they can use guns too.
Just Knights. *Sigh*. I'm going to be mega-depressed if IG isn't coming and we've got another "Codex Orks soon!" hoax ala August/September over October.
Mr.Omega wrote: The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.
For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.
On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.
Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.
In the Gaunt's ghosts series they come across several PDF forces that use autoguns (one even uses bolt action rifles) due to the fact that they either lack the technology to make las weapons, or that they're deemed too expensive for what are essentially just garrison troops. So it wouldn't really be out of place whatsoever.
Mr.Omega wrote: The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.
For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.
On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.
Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.
In the Gaunt's ghosts series they come across several PDF forces that use autoguns (one even uses bolt action rifles) due to the fact that they either lack the technology to make las weapons, or that they're deemed too expensive for what are essentially just garrison troops. So it wouldn't really be out of place whatsoever.
I always thought conscripts should have stub guns or some such rubbish....You know, to reflect user quality
Mr.Omega wrote: The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.
For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.
On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.
Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.
Lol, if your guard play like mine, you'd use less then 50 rounds per engagement total. They more or less score and die. Its the other weapons that matter.
The values for shots in the tabletop game don't reflect the number of shots in the virtual simulation, I've figured. Otherwise it would make no sense if a Bolter is fired at the same rate as something like a manually loaded Missile Launcher at mid range.
Instead, they probably represent the effect of a prolonged burst of fire, with the slow rate of fire weapons representing multiple shots.
Mr.Omega wrote: The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.
For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.
On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.
Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.
Lol, if your guard play like mine, you'd use less then 50 rounds per engagement total. They more or less score and die. Its the other weapons that matter.
The values for shots in the tabletop game don't reflect the number of shots in the virtual simulation, I've figured. Otherwise it would make no sense if a Bolter is fired at the same rate as something like a manually loaded Missile Launcher at mid range.
Instead, they probably represent the effect of a prolonged burst of fire, with the slow rate of fire weapons representing multiple shots.
Trouble with that is it makes no sense when you read individual weapon profiles then look at the rules they have. A bolter for example is 180 degrees in the wrong direction rules wise from it's background.
Mr.Omega wrote: The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.
For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.
On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.
Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.
In the Gaunt's ghosts series they come across several PDF forces that use autoguns (one even uses bolt action rifles) due to the fact that they either lack the technology to make las weapons, or that they're deemed too expensive for what are essentially just garrison troops. So it wouldn't really be out of place whatsoever.
The difference is, that's a PDF. There would be more, pre-made munition stores set up around areas of conflict, the supply lanes are more secure as they know the landscape better and probably have a more entrenched rear, and they don't need to worry about fitting the ammo onto dropships or transporting it to a planet.
Mr.Omega wrote: The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.
For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.
On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.
Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.
In the Gaunt's ghosts series they come across several PDF forces that use autoguns (one even uses bolt action rifles) due to the fact that they either lack the technology to make las weapons, or that they're deemed too expensive for what are essentially just garrison troops. So it wouldn't really be out of place whatsoever.
The difference is, that's a PDF. There would be more, pre-made munition stores set up around areas of conflict, the supply lanes are more secure as they know the landscape better and probably have a more entrenched rear, and they don't need to worry about fitting the ammo onto dropships or transporting it to a planet.
Off-world, it wouldn't be viable. Simple as.
This is another example where NOTHING in 40k is really viable. Simply put, no Guard regiment would make sense logistically in a campaign off world from their base of operations. Fuel would be a bigger issue then ammo, trust me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also if your combat doctrine is guerrilla warfare and stealth then arming your covert troops with what is essentially flashlights is beyond stupid.
Mr.Omega wrote: The problem is the back water IG regiment concept with autoguns is a fair bit of a joke when you weigh up the practicality of it.
For every Guardsman's autogun, you're going to need to supply him with at least 3 magazines of ammo for every engagement. If you have say, ten thousand men, that's a ridiculous amount of ammo you need to bring with the regiment on every off-world excursion, and you need to have constant supply chains set up for your infantry as well as your tanks, which is both a vulnerability, and costs more fuel, men and supply vehicles.
On the other hand, with a Lasgun, you give him one Lasgun pack and it will last many, many engagements if used properly. It can be recharged by a manner of actions, like putting it near a source of heat like a camp fire. You don't have to give the Guardsman one on every other occasion and it means that an IG Infantry Regiment can survive a prolonged siege without great fear of running out of ammo for their main rifle.
Plus, a Forge World run by the mechanicus isn't going to waste resources on churning out these munitions for you. Hive Gangs and Cultists get them just because they're probably so common in black markets and in crime circles.
In the Gaunt's ghosts series they come across several PDF forces that use autoguns (one even uses bolt action rifles) due to the fact that they either lack the technology to make las weapons, or that they're deemed too expensive for what are essentially just garrison troops. So it wouldn't really be out of place whatsoever.
The difference is, that's a PDF. There would be more, pre-made munition stores set up around areas of conflict, the supply lanes are more secure as they know the landscape better and probably have a more entrenched rear, and they don't need to worry about fitting the ammo onto dropships or transporting it to a planet.
Off-world, it wouldn't be viable. Simple as.
This is another example where NOTHING in 40k is really viable. Simply put, no Guard regiment would make sense logistically in a campaign off world from their base of operations. Fuel would be a bigger issue then ammo, trust me.
Go ahead and elaborate, I'm all ears, I don't see a great problem with the overall logistics of an IG regiment that couldn't be solved by 40 millenniums of advancement.
The novel Gunheads goes about fairly well. In that, the task force throws down a prefabricated FOB at the primary drop site, each company has its own half-tracks and supply vehicles, and they reclaim 3 more positions as forward bases where logistics is also managed from. A section of Tech Priests and IG engineers perform maintenance on every vehicle, the former presumably by magic given the descriptions in the overall universe.
When the water runs out, they get the men to drink their own urine, which happens at the beginning when the Gunheads Armoured Company is on an isolated slog.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also if your combat doctrine is guerrilla warfare and stealth then arming your covert troops with what is essentially flashlights is beyond stupid.
Is it though? The lasgun trail will probably be faint, will be brief, and the sound is blissfully probably going to be far quieter than a stubber shell, which if anything is the bigger problem.
If your whole company of say, Tallarns, opens fire in their ambush at a forward patrol, it isn't going to matter a toss even if they can see the Lasgun trails, as the cracks of stubber fire going off and the subsequent corpses is going to be just as indicative that sunshine and rainbows aren't ahead.
If anything, having less volume to each shot is better than greater visibility as with a stealth unit where the objective is to maintain stealth, you're going to aim to kill each man capable of observing his buddies get capped before they can raise an alarm. With the men elsewhere in a position without line of sight being less able to hear the hisses of Lasgun fire, that's probably better.
40 milleniums of advancement your say? Yet they conduct warfare 100 years out of date by todays standards... Yup pretty much. My tanks all have exhausts which tells me they must run on some form of crude fuel, battle tanks use A LOT of fuel. If you have no issue with fuel supply you should have no issue with ammo. That was my point you missed.
I also find it amusing that "magic" is a valid answer to some problems for you, but not others.
That said I am not trying to be snipped or rude to you. just offering argument as to how auto guns are fine.
Red Corsair wrote: 40 milleniums of advancement your say? Yet they conduct warfare 100 years out of date by todays standards... Yup pretty much. My tanks all have exhausts which tells me they must run on some form of crude fuel, battle tanks use A LOT of fuel. If you have no issue with fuel supply you should have no issue with ammo. That was my point you missed.
Except unfortunately 1+1=2, where 2 is double the amount of resources you have to manage, supply and deal with. There are issues with fuel supply regardless, but there is no need for creating pointless issues with ammo supply which a munitorum official would probably have a headache over and seek to rectify pretty quickly.
Yeah, with Admech magic, that's more of a general 40k plothole that can't really be explained given the fact that tech of the 40k universe functions differently, and as its Sci-Fi you have to suspend your belief on that level.
Thankfully, today we don't have to contend with machine spirits, though my mother's ink printer would suggest otherwise.
Also, not trying to be rude and not taking what you're saying as rude. Consequence of speaking with just text.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also if your combat doctrine is guerrilla warfare and stealth then arming your covert troops with what is essentially flashlights is beyond stupid.
Is it though? The lasgun trail will probably be faint, will be brief, and the sound is blissfully probably going to be far quieter than a stubber shell, which if anything is the bigger problem.
From what I have seen in every video game and also art work, those las guns are similar to those of star wars. Full ranged beams basically of red like. Sorry but the long las sniper rifle for example is ludicrously stupid for that reason alone. Same thing goes for covert operatives, guns can be suppressed VERY easily.
Red Corsair wrote: 40 milleniums of advancement your say? Yet they conduct warfare 100 years out of date by todays standards... Yup pretty much. My tanks all have exhausts which tells me they must run on some form of crude fuel, battle tanks use A LOT of fuel. If you have no issue with fuel supply you should have no issue with ammo. That was my point you missed.
Tactics arent out of date if they fit the times. (funnily enough).
IG tanks run on anything, be it trees or bodies.
Who knows what are on the ships that supply these forces. They could manifacture goods in the fleet if need be.
Possibilities are endless. in. 40K.
How do you think countries invaded each other and kept supply lines with sail ships and black powder guns? with a lot of planning thats how. I imagine they couldnt send an email to request goods that would arrive weeks later. Just like the guard.
Red Corsair wrote: 40 milleniums of advancement your say? Yet they conduct warfare 100 years out of date by todays standards... Yup pretty much. My tanks all have exhausts which tells me they must run on some form of crude fuel, battle tanks use A LOT of fuel. If you have no issue with fuel supply you should have no issue with ammo. That was my point you missed.
Except unfortunately 1+1=2, where 2 is double the amount of resources you have to manage, supply and deal with. There are issues with fuel supply regardless, but there is no need for creating pointless issues with ammo supply which a munitorum official would probably have a headache over and seek to rectify pretty quickly.
Yea, air drops are so hard now right... Oh well, you clearly don't agree with auto guns, even though they ARE a part of the fluff. The fluff which is very much dependent on suspension of disbelief anyway, which was my point. So agree to disagree I suppose.
Red Corsair wrote: 40 milleniums of advancement your say? Yet they conduct warfare 100 years out of date by todays standards... Yup pretty much. My tanks all have exhausts which tells me they must run on some form of crude fuel, battle tanks use A LOT of fuel. If you have no issue with fuel supply you should have no issue with ammo. That was my point you missed.
Tactics arent out of date if they fit the times. (funnily enough).
IG tanks run on anything, be it trees or bodies.
Who knows what are on the ships that supply these forces. They could manifacture goods in the fleet if need be.
Possibilities are endless. in. 40K.
How do you think countries invaded each other and kept supply lines with sail ships and black powder guns? with a lot of planning thats how. I imagine they couldnt send an email to request goods that would arrive weeks later. Just like the guard.
That was my point, you missed it. I was demonstrating that suspension of disbelief was already required so why say autoguns are impractical. I wasn't very poignant though.
Red Corsair wrote: 40 milleniums of advancement your say? Yet they conduct warfare 100 years out of date by todays standards... Yup pretty much. My tanks all have exhausts which tells me they must run on some form of crude fuel, battle tanks use A LOT of fuel. If you have no issue with fuel supply you should have no issue with ammo. That was my point you missed.
Except unfortunately 1+1=2, where 2 is double the amount of resources you have to manage, supply and deal with. There are issues with fuel supply regardless, but there is no need for creating pointless issues with ammo supply which a munitorum official would probably have a headache over and seek to rectify pretty quickly.
Yea, air drops are so hard now right... Oh well, you clearly don't agree with auto guns, even though they ARE a part of the fluff. The fluff which is very much dependent on suspension of disbelief anyway, which was my point. So agree to disagree I suppose.
The IG don't have a practical large craft for air-dropped munitions, probably to prevent themselves from wasting resources. Its also relatively useless to have a supply aircraft in a siege scenario where they need to drop close to the front and risk getting shot down, or drop onto a supply point which doesn't eliminate the issues I've mentioned beforehand, where you need the extra fuel, trucks and men to manage the supply chains for moving out those munitions.
All the same, a regiment that at the moment in time needs to begin off-world duties is going to get Lasguns well before they get such aircraft.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also if your combat doctrine is guerrilla warfare and stealth then arming your covert troops with what is essentially flashlights is beyond stupid.
Is it though? The lasgun trail will probably be faint, will be brief, and the sound is blissfully probably going to be far quieter than a stubber shell, which if anything is the bigger problem.
From what I have seen in every video game and also art work, those las guns are similar to those of star wars. Full ranged beams basically of red like. Sorry but the long las sniper rifle for example is ludicrously stupid for that reason alone. Same thing goes for covert operatives, guns can be suppressed VERY easily.
Again, less sound is far better than less visibility because visibility 3/4 of the time won't matter for squat.
As for suppressors, that's more resources you need, and at that point you have to look back and say, wait, we have the sort of ballistic sound suppressors issued to modern special forces, but can't get the standard issue AK-47 of the 41st Millennium? Eh?
Besides the fact that I'm pretty sure suppressors don't even exist in 40k because of that. Its a high tech upgrade to a low tech inferior weapon when you could just issue the troops with standard issue weapons.
The Long Las, again, is still a double edged sword. The boom of a ballistic projectile from a sniper rifle is going to alert the enemy regardless, as is the muzzle flash.
While the short duration Las Beam may give a greater hint as to where the shot originated (you're not going to trace it with your eyes to the exact point anyway just as Joe Schmoe got killed in your coffee break)), its going to emit far less sound and probably be more lethal. A Lasbeam hitting you in an unprotected area cooks your internal organs, an oversized stubber shell will at best rip a limb off if you're very lucky, and even then the target could survive given such innovations as medical gel.
Red Corsair wrote: 40 milleniums of advancement your say? Yet they conduct warfare 100 years out of date by todays standards... Yup pretty much. My tanks all have exhausts which tells me they must run on some form of crude fuel, battle tanks use A LOT of fuel. If you have no issue with fuel supply you should have no issue with ammo. That was my point you missed.
Except unfortunately 1+1=2, where 2 is double the amount of resources you have to manage, supply and deal with. There are issues with fuel supply regardless, but there is no need for creating pointless issues with ammo supply which a munitorum official would probably have a headache over and seek to rectify pretty quickly.
Yea, air drops are so hard now right... Oh well, you clearly don't agree with auto guns, even though they ARE a part of the fluff. The fluff which is very much dependent on suspension of disbelief anyway, which was my point. So agree to disagree I suppose.
The IG don't have a practical large craft for air-dropped munitions, probably to prevent themselves from wasting resources. Its also relatively useless to have a supply aircraft in a siege scenario where they need to drop close to the front and risk getting shot down, or drop onto a supply point which doesn't eliminate the issues I've mentioned beforehand, where you need the extra fuel, trucks and men to manage the supply chains for moving out those munitions.
All the same, a regiment that at the moment in time needs to begin off-world duties is going to get Lasguns well before they get such aircraft.
Again, you missed the bigger picture and point. Their is seriously so much nonsense and space magic and holes in the canon and fluff, multiplied by countless reginments and doctrines in innumerable environments that it is silly to argue that autoguns can't make sense.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also if your combat doctrine is guerrilla warfare and stealth then arming your covert troops with what is essentially flashlights is beyond stupid.
Is it though? The lasgun trail will probably be faint, will be brief, and the sound is blissfully probably going to be far quieter than a stubber shell, which if anything is the bigger problem.
From what I have seen in every video game and also art work, those las guns are similar to those of star wars. Full ranged beams basically of red like. Sorry but the long las sniper rifle for example is ludicrously stupid for that reason alone. Same thing goes for covert operatives, guns can be suppressed VERY easily.
Again, less sound is far better than less visibility because visibility 3/4 of the time won't matter for squat.
As for suppressors, that's more resources you need, and at that point you have to look back and say, wait, we have the sort of ballistic sound suppressors issued to modern special forces, but can't get the standard issue AK-47 of the 41st Millennium? Eh?
Besides the fact that I'm pretty sure suppressors don't even exist in 40k because of that. Its a high tech upgrade to a low tech inferior weapon when you could just issue the troops with standard issue weapons.
SM scouts want a word with you. And no suppressors are laughably easy top make even now, and cheaply. You also keep ignoring the fact that regiments already exist that use autoguns. You also ignore the point I am making that they can have a place, not that they should replace lasguns. BOTH CAN EXIST. Did you finally gather that part?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also if your combat doctrine is guerrilla warfare and stealth then arming your covert troops with what is essentially flashlights is beyond stupid.
Is it though? The lasgun trail will probably be faint, will be brief, and the sound is blissfully probably going to be far quieter than a stubber shell, which if anything is the bigger problem.
From what I have seen in every video game and also art work, those las guns are similar to those of star wars. Full ranged beams basically of red like. Sorry but the long las sniper rifle for example is ludicrously stupid for that reason alone. Same thing goes for covert operatives, guns can be suppressed VERY easily.
Again, less sound is far better than less visibility because visibility 3/4 of the time won't matter for squat.
As for suppressors, that's more resources you need, and at that point you have to look back and say, wait, we have the sort of ballistic sound suppressors issued to modern special forces, but can't get the standard issue AK-47 of the 41st Millennium? Eh?
Besides the fact that I'm pretty sure suppressors don't even exist in 40k because of that. Its a high tech upgrade to a low tech inferior weapon when you could just issue the troops with standard issue weapons.
The Long Las, again, is still a double edged sword. The boom of a ballistic projectile from a sniper rifle is going to alert the enemy regardless, as is the muzzle flash.
While the short duration Las Beam may give a greater hint as to where the shot originated (you're not going to trace it with your eyes to the exact point anyway just as Joe Schmoe got killed in your coffee break)), its going to emit far less sound and probably be more lethal. A Lasbeam hitting you in an unprotected area cooks your internal organs, an oversized stubber shell will at best rip a limb off if you're very lucky, and even then the target could survive given such innovations as medical gel.
Long barrels rifles don't present the muzzle flash your suggesting. The noise at such range is also nearly impossible to pinpoint. Have you ever owned or shot firearms?
Red Corsair wrote: 40 milleniums of advancement your say? Yet they conduct warfare 100 years out of date by todays standards... Yup pretty much. My tanks all have exhausts which tells me they must run on some form of crude fuel, battle tanks use A LOT of fuel. If you have no issue with fuel supply you should have no issue with ammo. That was my point you missed.
Except unfortunately 1+1=2, where 2 is double the amount of resources you have to manage, supply and deal with. There are issues with fuel supply regardless, but there is no need for creating pointless issues with ammo supply which a munitorum official would probably have a headache over and seek to rectify pretty quickly.
Yea, air drops are so hard now right... Oh well, you clearly don't agree with auto guns, even though they ARE a part of the fluff. The fluff which is very much dependent on suspension of disbelief anyway, which was my point. So agree to disagree I suppose.
The IG don't have a practical large craft for air-dropped munitions, probably to prevent themselves from wasting resources. Its also relatively useless to have a supply aircraft in a siege scenario where they need to drop close to the front and risk getting shot down, or drop onto a supply point which doesn't eliminate the issues I've mentioned beforehand, where you need the extra fuel, trucks and men to manage the supply chains for moving out those munitions.
All the same, a regiment that at the moment in time needs to begin off-world duties is going to get Lasguns well before they get such aircraft.
Again, you missed the bigger picture and point. Their is seriously so much nonsense and space magic and holes in the canon and fluff, multiplied by countless reginments and doctrines in innumerable environments that it is silly to argue that autoguns can't make sense.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also if your combat doctrine is guerrilla warfare and stealth then arming your covert troops with what is essentially flashlights is beyond stupid.
Is it though? The lasgun trail will probably be faint, will be brief, and the sound is blissfully probably going to be far quieter than a stubber shell, which if anything is the bigger problem.
From what I have seen in every video game and also art work, those las guns are similar to those of star wars. Full ranged beams basically of red like. Sorry but the long las sniper rifle for example is ludicrously stupid for that reason alone. Same thing goes for covert operatives, guns can be suppressed VERY easily.
Again, less sound is far better than less visibility because visibility 3/4 of the time won't matter for squat.
As for suppressors, that's more resources you need, and at that point you have to look back and say, wait, we have the sort of ballistic sound suppressors issued to modern special forces, but can't get the standard issue AK-47 of the 41st Millennium? Eh?
Besides the fact that I'm pretty sure suppressors don't even exist in 40k because of that. Its a high tech upgrade to a low tech inferior weapon when you could just issue the troops with standard issue weapons.
SM scouts want a word with you. And no suppressors are laughably easy top make even now, and cheaply. You also keep ignoring the fact that regiments already exist that use autoguns. You also ignore the point I am making that they can have a place, not that they should replace lasguns. BOTH CAN EXIST. Did you finally gather that part?
They're Space Marines, given some of the best equipment in the entire Imperium.
All sanctioned tech in 40k has to be an STC or proven to be of Old Terra iirc, the latter of which probably doesn't apply at all here because of the distance of a back-water planet and the lack of evidence they'd be able to accumulate, nevermind not having the Tech in the first place.
The Mechanicus isn't going to give you or produce for you an STC that probably doesn't even exist or is reserved for Space Marines only just so you can orchestrate a logistical horror.
Given to Regiments that operate, at any point, off their Home World, they're not practical and shouldn't co-exist with Lasguns, because the moment anyone with a pair of braincells to rub together realises what a waste of resources and what a flaw in logic they're exercising they're going to get their standard issue cheapo 40k AK-47's, one can bet.
Red Corsair wrote: 40 milleniums of advancement your say? Yet they conduct warfare 100 years out of date by todays standards... Yup pretty much. My tanks all have exhausts which tells me they must run on some form of crude fuel, battle tanks use A LOT of fuel. If you have no issue with fuel supply you should have no issue with ammo. That was my point you missed.
Except unfortunately 1+1=2, where 2 is double the amount of resources you have to manage, supply and deal with. There are issues with fuel supply regardless, but there is no need for creating pointless issues with ammo supply which a munitorum official would probably have a headache over and seek to rectify pretty quickly.
Yea, air drops are so hard now right... Oh well, you clearly don't agree with auto guns, even though they ARE a part of the fluff. The fluff which is very much dependent on suspension of disbelief anyway, which was my point. So agree to disagree I suppose.
The IG don't have a practical large craft for air-dropped munitions, probably to prevent themselves from wasting resources. Its also relatively useless to have a supply aircraft in a siege scenario where they need to drop close to the front and risk getting shot down, or drop onto a supply point which doesn't eliminate the issues I've mentioned beforehand, where you need the extra fuel, trucks and men to manage the supply chains for moving out those munitions.
All the same, a regiment that at the moment in time needs to begin off-world duties is going to get Lasguns well before they get such aircraft.
Again, you missed the bigger picture and point. Their is seriously so much nonsense and space magic and holes in the canon and fluff, multiplied by countless reginments and doctrines in innumerable environments that it is silly to argue that autoguns can't make sense.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also if your combat doctrine is guerrilla warfare and stealth then arming your covert troops with what is essentially flashlights is beyond stupid.
Is it though? The lasgun trail will probably be faint, will be brief, and the sound is blissfully probably going to be far quieter than a stubber shell, which if anything is the bigger problem.
From what I have seen in every video game and also art work, those las guns are similar to those of star wars. Full ranged beams basically of red like. Sorry but the long las sniper rifle for example is ludicrously stupid for that reason alone. Same thing goes for covert operatives, guns can be suppressed VERY easily.
Again, less sound is far better than less visibility because visibility 3/4 of the time won't matter for squat.
As for suppressors, that's more resources you need, and at that point you have to look back and say, wait, we have the sort of ballistic sound suppressors issued to modern special forces, but can't get the standard issue AK-47 of the 41st Millennium? Eh?
Besides the fact that I'm pretty sure suppressors don't even exist in 40k because of that. Its a high tech upgrade to a low tech inferior weapon when you could just issue the troops with standard issue weapons.
SM scouts want a word with you. And no suppressors are laughably easy top make even now, and cheaply. You also keep ignoring the fact that regiments already exist that use autoguns. You also ignore the point I am making that they can have a place, not that they should replace lasguns. BOTH CAN EXIST. Did you finally gather that part?
They're Space Marines, given some of the best equipment in the entire Imperium.
All sanctioned tech in 40k has to be an STC or proven to be of Old Terra iirc, the latter of which probably doesn't apply at all here because of the distance of a back-water planet and the lack of evidence they'd be able to accumulate, nevermind not having the Tech in the first place.
The Mechanicus isn't going to give you an STC that probably doesn't even exist or is reserved for Space Marines only just so you can orchestrate a logistical horror.
Given to Regiments that operate, at any point, off their Home World, they're not practical and shouldn't co-exist with Lasguns, because the moment anyone with a pair of braincells to rub together realises what a waste of resources and what a flaw in logic they're exercising they're going to get their standard issue cheapo 40k AK-47's, one can bet.
Really no need to get hostile. Maybe I misread that though, but either way I think you need to realize this is a fantasy game with impossible things in it already. So the amount of real world reasoning you are applying is a double edged sword. Your telling me logistically autoguns can't work. Yet in the same breath that space magic is used by the tech priests Lasguns don't make sense physically either for that matter.
Realistically they would never use infantry. Why on earth would you if you had transwarp technology and spacecraft. Jesus we use drones today, why wouldn't they use air craft and drones. Don't even tell me they don't have drones because my servo skulls say otherwise.
@ me.
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on an armour save?
Not Titans.... Now that can has been opened....
Lasguns don't make sense physically either for that matter.