Rebooting thread, please do not derail by wish-listing. I will rework the presentation as soon as I have spare time. Imperial Guard is said to be renamed to Astra Militarum by various sources (can't retrieve the rumour date for the moment). Seemed serious from the start though.
Update february 6th , from 40k Radio :
So some exciting news. A listener of ours was at a GW store today that mistakenly received a shipment of some unreleased items. It was the plastic Ogryn kit. The rename is confirmed as they were called Militarum Auxillia. Boom! Nailed it. -Rik
+ + + + +
february the 5th, from the well known "flip a coin" accuracy blog :
via a reader that must stay anonymous on Faeit 212 Hello Natfka, I am not normally a rumour guy.
However, I have today seen (and held) something I was not supposed to. "Astra Militarium Bullgryns"
Shrink wrapped box ready for sale; I don't know what that implys about release time.
Three Plastic "Bullgryns" which seem to be armoured Ogryns with large riot style shields. Looked to be on the same bases as the Space Marine Centurians. They are painted in a new looking blue/gray urban cammo. They have armoured looking torsos and loin cloth type things made out of tank tracks (!). They also seemed to have cybernetic enchancement (ala Boneheads).
Looking at the back of the box, there was a small picture indicating they could also be built as traditional Ogryns, which retain there T-shirts and Ripper guns look. The Orgryn on the back had a Green T shirt. + + + + +
Rest is copy / paste from old thread :
+ + + + + From Faeit212, Natfka, september, 2nd :
* Company Command is now the only, real HQ you can chose but you can swap the Commander for a Lord-Commissar. * Primaris Psyker are now Advisors, Bodyguards are gone . * Only Cadian named characters in this document.
* Salamander is in as transport for CCS/PCS, open-topped Chimera with Autocannon, transports 6.
* Engineeers are Elite now (but 1-3 per slot), can buff squads in the vicinity (think Force Field and such). * Priests must join a squad and won’t take HQ slots.
* Veterans, "get some lose some". Size 5-10, can take 1 heavy wepaon or 1 special weapon per 5 soldiers. Bastogne is gone but every Veteran Sarge can give orders now. Can still take shotguns and get option to take pistol & CCW. New Veteran ability allows charging out of transport.
* Special Weapon and Heavy Weapon Squads are now 10 men each.
* Vendetta is gone, instead Valkyries can take the Vendettas-loadout for +45 points.
* Only one entry for Sentinels, no armor upgrade, closed cabin has no game effect but is just cosmetical.
* Thunderer/Destroyer is in. Thunderer is a cheap Demolisher with nothing but a hull-mounted Demolisher cannon. Destroyer is a dedicated tank hunter with a laser-lance weapon. Have a, hull-down“ rule that makes them extremely hard to kill if in cover, seem to be area-control units.
* There was talk about a new Cadian Veteran plastic set, 5 miniatures with all options.
* Heavy Weapon Squad will be repacked to include one sprue of standard Cadian infantry. * Special Weapon Squads might get their own box with a new special weapon sprue (which is also used for Veteran box).
+ + + +
september, 20th Larry Vela on Bell of Lost Souls :
These rumors come to us in multiple sets, and we have ordered them from most trustworthy to least based on a variety of "truthifying methods":
The Probable stuff: IG Veterans/Stormtroopers (plastic 5-man box) Hydra Artillery combo-kit Roughriders (new plastic box)
The Possible stuff: IG Regiment Doctrines: Each Regiment (Cadian, Catachan, etc...)has doctrines, similar to SM Chapter tactics. Examples listed were: Cadians - may issue 2 orders to a unit Catachans - Move-thru-cover, and Jungle Fighter (???)
Thunderbolt flyer: Very heavy armor, but cannot jink.
The Salt-mine Imperial Robots - 2 new robots, requiring an Admech handler/enginseer.
Knight Paladin - Taller than riptide, not as tall as Wraithknight. Vanquisher cannon and Uber-chainsword are standard load out. May upgrade to Punisher Cannon, Uber-Fist with Inferno Flamers
+ + + +
november , 1st Posted by Larry Vela on Bell of Lost Souls :
* Codex Imperial Guard launches in March 2014 * Look for many refreshes in the codex rules. * Expanded command system with the return of Doctrines * The missing IG tanks will be released: - Griffon/Collosus/Medusa artillery kit * Stormtroopers released * Veterans released --> These two infantry kits include many, many optional bits to build command squads and even penal troops. * New centerpiece kit is a Horus Heresy era tank.[/list]
+ + + + (thanks to kroothawk) Noel at Wargamer wrote :
-‘Mission Objectives’ are potentially a new special rule for the Imperial Guard, although my channels are a little dry on this front, one can only begin to imagine what they do. I heard on the grapevine, that this special rule would allow even sergeants, to order ‘minor orders’ to their own unit.
-Formerly Forge World dominated vehicles will take a tour in the Imperial Guard codex. This means we could see such units as the Forge World Destroyer Tank Hunter as part of the upcoming codex. Although one finds it extremely unlikely they will receive a new plastic kit.
-Headquarters units have seen a massive shake up. Above the whole organisation, some units have been deleted, others modified. You start by buying a command squad, this is then changed by swapping the officer for a commissar, if one wishes too. The three present advisors have been retained, with the addition of the Primaris Psyker as a command squad advisor.
-Ministorum Priests are back in the same manner as before, this time though it has been rumoured they increase the ranged output of the unit, as well combat potential. Maybe in the form of the ‘preferred enemy’ special rule, who knows?
-The mighty (or not so mighty Enginseer) has stayed relatively the same, except for the transition from HQ to either Elite or Heavy Support. But what excites me the most, are their roles on the field of battle. Apparently they will act much like Royal Courts in the Necron army, bought with certain upgrades, then attached out to other units, to confer certain benefits to that unit.
-In terms of repacking, it is believed that special weapon squads will receive their own box set. This is also rumoured to be extended to veteran squads and heavy weapon teams. Coming in boxes of five models, with a wide variety of special equipment.
-Moving on from the veteran weapon squads re-boxing, it is believed that they will be changing their position on the battlefield. With smaller squad sizes, veterans seem to be taking a fire support role, that focuses on battlefield specialisation.
-Vendetta and Valkyrie gunship’ will more than likely be streamlined into one unit. Also it is believed that the squadron option will be lost, and an increase in points to balance out the power of Vendetta and Valkyrie gunship’ in sixth edition.
+ + + + november , 8 via StrykerSniper on Warseer :
I'm praying for stormtroopers, real ones, as a second troop choice. I did have a tiny look behind the iron curtain of GWs privacy policies, and I was able to see some mockups of the new veterans/stormtrooper boxed set, and it would be an amazing kit to build warbands or stormtrooper squads. Also I saw a model that appeared to be an Inquisitor, and was wearing a long cloak and armor.
I could see GW allowing stormtroopers as a troop choice to induce additional sales of the new kit, which, frankly, floored me. The details were great, with kasrkin style armor, and all sorts of weapons including hellguns, sniper rifles, special weapons, a cool missile launcher, a bunch of sergeant options, bolters, and lots of shotguns that managed to not look like scout shotguns. Also, the bolters did not look like marine shotuns, they were a little more human sized.
Some of the poses were also amazingly dynamic. Some were stoic standing poses, while a couple were very John Woo! There were also a lot of extra bits, poches, packs, grenades, knives, some scanner like equipment, and what appeared to be night vision goggles. If i were a puppy, I would've piddled on the rug, and it was a supreme act of will not to grab the models and run for the door. Apparently, they have also been ready for some time. Please dear God, let these see the light of my hobby store soon and I will have at least 5 boxes! This might even revitalize my Guard army.
Oh, and there were a bunch of heads! respirator heads, heads with berets, bald heads, heads with mohawks and crew cuts. Most were scarred, and one had an eyepatch, while another had a disfigured eye with what looked like claw marks, one head was smoking a stogie, and there were two heads with berets. There was even a knife that looked like a trench knife with raised knuckle dusters. There were scopes, a hand radio, and a bunch of bits for the bases including plants, a snake, and some ammo cans and satchel charges. There was even a hand holding an entrenching tool (shovel to you non-military types). There were a few holstered pistols, and as a delightful surprise, there were also autoguns in addition to lasguns, and there were bits for pistol and close combat weapon troops, although few were chainblades. There was a demo charge, melta bombs, and camo cloaks.
I was very, very impressed. The attention to detail was phenomenal. If you have any questions, ask them quick, before I am "sanctioned" by the inquisition. What is that sound outside the window.......?
So some exciting news. It was the plastic Ogryn kit. The rename is confirmed as they were called Militarum Auxillia. Boom! Nailed it. -Rik
Yeah, nailed it. Although, on the other hand, that "confirms" exactly nothing. Yeah, Ogryns might be Militarum Auxilia now. The rumour was that Imperial Guard become Astra Militarum. They're not off the hook until we see that verbatim.
I also find this story about a store getting their gak early highly unlikely, we'd be talking what, nearly a month early?
Herzlos wrote: Just as I've nearly finished painting my metal Ogryns.
As is ever the way.
It's like a law of the cosmos or something, or perhaps a necessary ritualistic component to summon them.
Even worse is that on re-reading the news, there's some new variant which will no doubt be the one I want and means I need to either buy/convert. At least if they are costed like Centurions I won't have any problem passing on them
I give precisely zero feths about any other potential awesome thing in the upcoming dex. I just want these.
Do no lie to me anonymous internet rumour source. Do not.
Also I'm not calling my guard "Astra Militarum". That's a dumb name. Mine will keep the glorious name of Imperial Guard!
I think I'll pass on the Ogryn. I'm curious to see how the Bassie/Medusa rumoured kit turns out. Frankly, I'm curious if any of the vehicle rumours will turn out to be true.
New Ogryn minis will be interesting, here's hoping they come with a good buff or the like to make them more attractive.
Also, if the rumour is true that veterans can assault out of vehicles, why? Everybody and their fething mum hits faster and harder than a veteran, so why allow them to do the one thing they're not supposed to do: Assaulting!
I have absolutely no basis for this, but the ogryn/bullgryn kit seems a lot more plausible to me than any of the other rumoured plastics.
I like the concept, but I'm concerned about the price. Both 50mm base kits so far have been £42.50 for three models and individual ogryns are already £13.80, so I could well imagine that GW would keep them around that price point. Unless the models and/or the rules are a significant improvement from the current version, that's a bit steep for me.
BrookM wrote: New Ogryn minis will be interesting, here's hoping they come with a good buff or the like to make them more attractive.
Also, if the rumour is true that veterans can assault out of vehicles, why? Everybody and their fething mum hits faster and harder than a veteran, so why allow them to do the one thing they're not supposed to do: Assaulting!
Maybe there's an Order that allows Lasguns/Hellguns to be used in Assault?
Bull0 wrote: Yeah, nailed it. Although, on the other hand, that "confirms" exactly nothing. Yeah, Ogryns might be Militarum Auxilia now. The rumour was that Imperial Guard become Astra Militarum. They're not off the hook until we see that verbatim.
Again, as I said to Kan, not really. If that is the new name for the category Ogryn fall into, then the more reasonable explanation is that IG have got a name change. I'm not about to call it Occam's Razor yet, but it's close.
Blacksails wrote: I think I'll pass on the Ogryn. I'm curious to see how the Bassie/Medusa rumoured kit turns out. Frankly, I'm curious if any of the vehicle rumours will turn out to be true.
If we're lucky this time the Basilisk might actually be a complete kit!
Bull0 wrote: Yeah, nailed it. Although, on the other hand, that "confirms" exactly nothing. Yeah, Ogryns might be Militarum Auxilia now. The rumour was that Imperial Guard become Astra Militarum. They're not off the hook until we see that verbatim.
Again, as I said to Kan, not really. If that is the new name for the category Ogryn fall into, then the more reasonable explanation is that IG have got a name change. I'm not about to call it Occam's Razor yet, but it's close.
And the most reasonable explanation of all is that I'm desperately clutching at straws, because the name change makes me do this D':
BrookM wrote: New Ogryn minis will be interesting, here's hoping they come with a good buff or the like to make them more attractive.
Also, if the rumour is true that veterans can assault out of vehicles, why? Everybody and their fething mum hits faster and harder than a veteran, so why allow them to do the one thing they're not supposed to do: Assaulting!
Maybe there's an Order that allows Lasguns/Hellguns to be used in Assault?
Or equipment.. Stun grenades that act like haywire for troops, 1-3 nothing, 4-5 unable to fight, 6 removed as a casualty.
Although thats me really clutching at straws. Tbh it probably exactly as they are and the kit will come with a pistol and CCweapon option and a unit of Guard with 2 attacks is seen as some kind of CC choice??
Curious, very very curious. I dig the new Ogryn rumor.
My only 'complaint' if you could call it that, is that Ogryns don't fit in my particular regiment (Vostroyan Firstborn, for clarity's sake).
I've always loved the way Ogryns looked, and would love to have some in my force to be honest, but they just.. Don't fit.. At all. You've got a bunch of models, carrying beautifully ornate and intricate lasrifles, wearing long ornate greatcoats and cool full plate looking armor, plus awesome fur hats. Then you have Ogryns, big hulking abhumans with muscle shirts and BDU pants. I love their look, but it would gel better with a Catachan or Cadian force, not Vostroyans. :(
I hope these new riot shield models/ 'Bullgryns' are visually different enough to allow me to fit a small squad of them into my army and at least look consistent, as having a tough unit to act as a hand to hand deterrent would be absolutely wonderful.
As for the ability for veterans to assault out of a transport, that might be cool/interesting if there's an order that a Veteran squad sergeant can give such as 'Affix bayonets!' which would give them +1 initiative or +1 Strength (Or both, a-la old school furious charge?). Not trying to wishlist here, but one of the rumors was that sergeants would be able to issue an order to their own squad. Perhaps this pertains to Veteran sergeants. Who knows.
Also, I really hope they bring out a Griffon kit. I've got two of them, having a third would be fan-frikkin'-tastic. We'll see I suppose.
Looking forward to seeing/hearing more rumors. Thanks for restarting it, Ravajaxe.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: Or equipment.. Stun grenades that act like haywire for troops, 1-3 nothing, 4-5 unable to fight, 6 removed as a casualty.
Although thats me really clutching at straws. Tbh it probably exactly as they are and the kit will come with a pistol and CCweapon option and a unit of Guard with 2 attacks is seen as some kind of CC choice??
Or shotguns that are "compact and quick-firing enough to be used in close quarters combat".
I would really be surprised to not see an Order allowing for a squad to use their Lasguns in close combat.
I"m cautiously excited about this. IG (or "Astra Militaria") are my first, largest, and now only 40k army.
I wil be buying to codex, and probably kits for new units. I already have 10 ogryn, so I'll probably pass on the new kit unless they do something amazing.
However, depending on how I like it, and if 40k rebounds locally, this might be the last thing I buy for 40k until 7th edition. I'm secretly hoping the book is cool, and I can find people to play fun/casual games with.
Barring that, I guess I'll just paint the new stuff, and put it in storage.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: Or equipment.. Stun grenades that act like haywire for troops, 1-3 nothing, 4-5 unable to fight, 6 removed as a casualty.
Although thats me really clutching at straws. Tbh it probably exactly as they are and the kit will come with a pistol and CCweapon option and a unit of Guard with 2 attacks is seen as some kind of CC choice??
Oh, I bet they could actually kill some grots. Maybe even unmarked cultists due to the better armor...
The new Ogryns sound legit. Just like the thing GW would do. And it'll be hard to resist something like "plastic Ogryns with riot shields". I'm getting all giddy just thinking about it.
reds8n wrote:
Herzlos wrote: Just as I've nearly finished painting my metal Ogryns.
As is ever the way.
It's like a law of the cosmos or something, or perhaps a necessary ritualistic component to summon them.
My Demon Prince of Nurgle, Possessed, Warboss on Bike and Ork Kommandos agree with you.
Anung Un Rama wrote: The new Ogryns sound legit. Just like the thing GW would do. And it'll be hard to resist something like "plastic Ogryns with riot shields". I'm getting all giddy just thinking about it.
I just had an interesting thought...
What if the Ogryns with these slabs of tank armor plating for shields have a rule similar to the Deathwing Knights and their "Fortress of Shields"?
That would be pretty neat, though I do wonder, will these shielded be ranged or melee? If the latter, here's hoping for some buffs to make them worthwhile and actually effective.
I'm giddy with anticipation! Now that I'm practically done with my CSM army, I thought about starting a smaller, allied detachment of IG.
I'd love to be able to assemble some plastic Veterans/Stormtroopers with Carapace Armour, or Ogryn with Riot Shields, etc. They'd look nice in an army of... Renegades!
Ogryns with riot shields sounds really cool, and I like the idea posted last page of them making a shield wall like Deathwing Knights. Plastic Stormtroopers sounds really cool, but I've been burned a few too many times getting hopeful for that one. The codex can say whatever it wants on the cover, but I'm still calling them the Imperial Guard, because that's what they are to me.
You know, with the rumor that GW is pushing to try and make forgeworld "mainstream", it doesn't sound so crazy anymore that Forgeworld units might get rolled into the new codex. If you were wanting to push Forgeworld, Imperial Guard would be a good way to do it.
The question is how they would do it. Will they just stick them in the codex, or will we see a note in the beginning that says "check out Forgeworld for extra units and army lists to use as supplements in your 40k games." Its not like anything Forgeworld has is any more broken than what's already in the game anyways.
GW also doesn't have a good track record of making useless units viable again.. I mean Ogryn have been awful since 3rd edition and new models doesn't mean useful rules (You would think it would considering they want to sell models right?)..
Kirasu wrote: GW also doesn't have a good track record of making useless units viable again.. I mean Ogryn have been awful since 3rd edition and new models doesn't mean useful rules (You would think it would considering they want to sell models right?)..
It's the aspect of GW that's most misread. A lot of new kits have mediocre or even awful rules.
And the IG, in particular, get hammered with bad units staying bad. all of hte auxilia (ogryn, rough riders, and ratlings), stormtroopers, hellhounds, and psykers have stayed reliably bad for edition after edition.
Platoons, comamnd, LRBTs, and artillery have been pretty good in and out.
I guess this is a "hit" for GW considering how everyone seems to like the idea of new ogryn, but man F@#$ that. We had to deal with garbage models and garbage rules for ogryn for as long as I've remembered, models that constantly get remade while we lack basic stuff like a third type of imperial guardsman, stormtroopers, or a model for all our artillery.
Also if they squat the basilisk variants instead of making a kit for them I am just about going to explode.
If Ogryn become viable I'll have to learn how the assault phase actually works... In all honesty though I'm pretty excited for this release, I've been waiting so long to get myself some arty tanks so hopefully they release a multi-kit I can magnetize the crap out of.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Plastic ogryns? With centurion base size and presumably cost? Oh goody, so now everyone's old models and conversions are too small and on small bases
You field them on the bases they came on and you won't get problems. If someone is giving you trouble over a 10mm base size difference, you're playing against incredibly anal people. I still play with Rhinos from the 90s and Terminators on 25mm bases and have never had a problem in the years and years I've been playing this game.
Kirasu wrote: GW also doesn't have a good track record of making useless units viable again.. I mean Ogryn have been awful since 3rd edition and new models doesn't mean useful rules (You would think it would considering they want to sell models right?)..
What's the point? By making ally rules the standard in games instead of an option for larger ones, you have no reason to take ogryns other than fluff. You can get much better by just picking and choosing your allies which makes internal codex balance pointless. It's the main reason I don't like ally rules. It's a win win situation for GW in that they get to sell more models and make lazy rules.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Plastic ogryns? With centurion base size and presumably cost? Oh goody, so now everyone's old models and conversions are too small and on small bases
Sabot bases!
Just buy 50mm discs, cut a 40mm hole out of the centre and use it if anyone complains the bases are the wrong size. I'm certainly not re-buying my 8.
Also if they squat the basilisk variants instead of making a kit for them I am just about going to explode.
I really don't care about the Ogryns, but I agree with this.
I don't know why it wasn't redone years ago when the Russes were re-done. I don't think its unreasonable to have a Bassie/Medusa (even Griffon) kit. It'd have two extra pieces.
Of all the rumours I want to be true, its this, and the Destroyer/Thunderer kit. Might get me to stick to buying GW models instead of searching 3rd party alternatives.
Also if they squat the basilisk variants instead of making a kit for them I am just about going to explode.
I really don't care about the Ogryns, but I agree with this.
I don't know why it wasn't redone years ago when the Russes were re-done. I don't think its unreasonable to have a Bassie/Medusa (even Griffon) kit. It'd have two extra pieces.
Of all the rumours I want to be true, its this, and the Destroyer/Thunderer kit. Might get me to stick to buying GW models instead of searching 3rd party alternatives.
I would assume the reason was that they did all the Russes then along with plastic Command Squads for both Catachans and Cadians, a "new" Chimera, "new" Sentinels, "new" Hellhounds/Bane Wolves, the plastic Valkyries, etc.
Purportedly there is only so much room for plastic production at a time and there was a lot of plastic in the last Guard book...and they got kind of lazy anyways. Look at the hideous plastic Manticore that we got for an example.
Ravajaxe wrote: * Special Weapon and Heavy Weapon Squads are now 10 men each.
I really do hope that this isn't true.
*shakes fist
I have to agree!
I disagree. I like the idea of HWTs having a sarge and 3 meatshields before guns start going away. And if Vets drop to 2 weapons per squad, a 10 man SW team could potentially be 5-10 men with 2 weapons per 5.
Medium of Death wrote: Excited for Storm Troopers and Plastic Ogryn. I hope they don't have too many Imperial icons though.
These rumours don't seem unlikely due to them leaving out the more wishlisty elements, such as plastic re-works of classic metal guard.
I'm slightly doubtful of the Ogryn on the 50mm only because of their Fantasy counterparts, they also need to fit in a Chimera.
Hope the Stormtroopers look a bit like Jes Goodwins Imperial Guard art though.
Spoiler:
Still my favourite IG concept. I think GW are commited to the Cadian/Catachan look with slight variations now though. With occaisonal breaks for nearly awesome metal guard that a very sick bear threw up on.
I would assume the reason was that they did all the Russes then along with plastic Command Squads for both Catachans and Cadians, a "new" Chimera, "new" Sentinels, "new" Hellhounds/Bane Wolves, the plastic Valkyries, etc.
Purportedly there is only so much room for plastic production at a time and there was a lot of plastic in the last Guard book...and they got kind of lazy anyways. Look at the hideous plastic Manticore that we got for an example.
Ah, good point. I did forgot about the other plastic kits at the time. Either way, the plastic arty kit and the rumoured Destroyer/Thunderer kit will be the deciding factor if I buy GW or look elsewhere.
Ravajaxe wrote: * Special Weapon and Heavy Weapon Squads are now 10 men each.
I really do hope that this isn't true.
*shakes fist
I have to agree!
I disagree. I like the idea of HWTs having a sarge and 3 meatshields before guns start going away. And if Vets drop to 2 weapons per squad, a 10 man SW team could potentially be 5-10 men with 2 weapons per 5.
It would be a bit more realistic (realism, in my 40k, HA) because as big as those guns are I would think you need more than 2 guys to carry one and it's ammo. I know HMG teams from WWII tended to have a guy that carried ammo, a guy that carried the weapon mount, and a 3rd guy that carried the weapon itself and operated it. Even if the 3rd man is just a regular guardsman and a sergeant is thrown in for leadership, I would be ok with.
I'd be even more ok with it if they could attach to regular combat platoons
Medium of Death wrote: Excited for Storm Troopers and Plastic Ogryn. I hope they don't have too many Imperial icons though.
These rumours don't seem unlikely due to them leaving out the more wishlisty elements, such as plastic re-works of classic metal guard.
I'm slightly doubtful of the Ogryn on the 50mm only because of their Fantasy counterparts, they also need to fit in a Chimera.
Hope the Stormtroopers look a bit like Jes Goodwins Imperial Guard art though.
Don't spoiler that art! It's gorgeous and more people need to see it. That being said, I've been seeing this artwork since the 1995 'Eavy Metal painting guide, so I don't think any models will be coming out of it. 20 years is an awful long time to incubate a concept!
Agamemnon2 wrote: Plastic ogryns? With centurion base size and presumably cost? Oh goody, so now everyone's old models and conversions are too small and on small bases
Sabot bases!
Just buy 50mm discs, cut a 40mm hole out of the centre and use it if anyone complains the bases are the wrong size. I'm certainly not re-buying my 8.
Also, if the rumour is true that veterans can assault out of vehicles, why? Everybody and their fething mum hits faster and harder than a veteran, so why allow them to do the one thing they're not supposed to do: Assaulting!
I think it sounds pretty sweet. Not particularly useful for taking out infantry, but I usually use my vets as tank hunters. Shoot out of a Chimera and take out a tank, assault and take out another with melta bombs.
Or just useful for the handful of times you get within charging distance of Tau.
Also, if the rumour is true that veterans can assault out of vehicles, why? Everybody and their fething mum hits faster and harder than a veteran, so why allow them to do the one thing they're not supposed to do: Assaulting!
I think it sounds pretty sweet. Not particularly useful for taking out infantry, but I usually use my vets as tank hunters. Shoot out of a Chimera and take out a tank, assault and take out another with melta bombs.
Or just useful for the handful of times you get within charging distance of Tau.
I don't think you can shoot one target and then assault another target, unless vehicles are the exception. Or your target is a vehicle squadron, which might be OK. I'm with BrookM, veterans are for shooting things up with.
If the HWT are 10-man squads, does that mean I am getting 7 ablative wound Guardsmen or am I just having to pay more for a larger team that may very well waste firepower that could be better spent elsewhere?
Any maths on how much of a loss 1 Melta will be to a Vet squad? Certainly seems significant (though that brings them back in line with the other specialists from rival Codexes)
I don't think you can shoot one target and then assault another target, unless vehicles are the exception. Or your target is a vehicle squadron, which might be OK. I'm with BrookM, veterans are for shooting things up with.
Iirc you can assault another target, if you destroyed the first target. I don't have my rulebook handy though.
If not it still might be handy for those times you really need a tank dead, and you whiffed with those melta shots.
Any maths on how much of a loss 1 Melta will be to a Vet squad? Certainly seems significant (though that brings them back in line with the other specialists from rival Codexes)
I'm not sure what you mean. It would cost 10pts less to take a squad with 1 less melta. And it's a 33% reduction is special weapons. 50% if you're counting special weapons and heavy weapons together. Or a 100% increase if you're only taking heavy weapons.
MrMoustaffa wrote: You know, with the rumor that GW is pushing to try and make forgeworld "mainstream", it doesn't sound so crazy anymore that Forgeworld units might get rolled into the new codex. If you were wanting to push Forgeworld, Imperial Guard would be a good way to do it.
The question is how they would do it. Will they just stick them in the codex, or will we see a note in the beginning that says "check out Forgeworld for extra units and army lists to use as supplements in your 40k games." Its not like anything Forgeworld has is any more broken than what's already in the game anyways.
Didn't we get a rumor about GW folding FW into the main website. If they did this at the same time as IG, that would make a lot of sense.
Also, if they are March bound, wouldn't we have had leaks by now?
Any maths on how much of a loss 1 Melta will be to a Vet squad? Certainly seems significant (though that brings them back in line with the other specialists from rival Codexes)
I'm not sure what you mean. It would cost 10pts less to take a squad with 1 less melta. And it's a 33% reduction is special weapons. 50% if you're counting special weapons and heavy weapons together. Or a 100% increase if you're only taking heavy weapons.
In an average scenario against, say an AV12 Vehicle, how much does losing 1 Melta impact the chances to destroy it, was my question. But you're right, I suppose it would just be a 33% loss, in any circumstance. I think I'd rather take larger Vets Squads with more Meltas than smaller Vet Squads with fewer Meltas so at least I know if the Vets are able to do their thing that they are nearly guaranteed to wreck whatever they are shooting at. That always seemed to be the big draw of having the 3 Specials, you know those guys are going to ruin somebodies day in a big way.
H.B.M.C. wrote: If GW thinks that allowing Vets to assault out of vehicles is something Guard players "need", then I have little faith for the rest of the book.
GW doesn't design rules with any real insight besides "force players to buy more stuff". This kind of rule is just more or less randomly put in there without real planning or care.
H.B.M.C. wrote: If GW thinks that allowing Vets to assault out of vehicles is something Guard players "need", then I have little faith for the rest of the book.
Guard Vets assaulting from vehicles won't happen. GW have shown that this is 'non-negotiable' from all the previous codices and BRB, only disembarking from an Assault vehicle allows charging. Plenty of other units that would have benefited / made sense to have such a rule have not received it.
I am hoping the new malcador sized tank is true rumor and that the knight paladin mech walker that is supposedly 7.5" tall is true to, so I can add it to my project... However things change in the codex, my core army I am doing will easily be tweaked into the new codex...
Harriticus wrote: GW doesn't design rules with any real insight besides "force players to buy more stuff". This kind of rule is just more or less randomly put in there without real planning or care.
Hmm… that is a point. I can sorta see one of them attempting to explain it to a player.
GW Designer: Now your Vets can assault out of Chimeras and Salamanders! This is great news! Us: But why would we want our elite shooting units to assault? GWD: It gives them more flexibility. Us: They were already pretty flexible. But ignoring that, why can Guard Vets assault out of a vehicle yet Marines can’t assault out of a Rhino? Or Genestealers can’t assault after outflanking. I mean, imagine if the battle was taking part 20 meters to the side – those ‘Stealers would no longer be outflanking; they’d just be there! – so why the special treatment for Guard Vets? GWD: Look! *shakes box of plastic Ogryns in our face* Ogryns! Us: What are you doi– GWD: Oooooh-grynssss! *continues to shake box*
Slaanesh-Devotee wrote: Guard Vets assaulting from vehicles won't happen. GW have shown that this is 'non-negotiable' from all the previous codices and BRB, only disembarking from an Assault vehicle allows charging.
Rapid Assault: The Astra Millitariumiiness Veterans are extremely capable and versitile soldiers, employing tactics and strategies far and beyond the rank and file Astaratron Millitarysuperindustrialcomplex Guard troopers. Any vehicle that has Veterans embarked within gains the Assault Vehicle special rule. The vehicle loses the rule once the Veterans have completed disembarking.
That was easy. GW can just change the rules at a whim. Never forget that.
Hmm… that is a point. I can sorta see one of them attempting to explain it to a player.
GW Designer: Now your Vets can assault out of Chimeras and Salamanders! This is great news!
Us: But why would we want our elite shooting units to assault?
( I think you're being overly optimistic.)
GWD: That's no longer a problem, as Veterans can't take ranged weapons anymore!
Us: That's...what?
GWD: Exactly! Why would you want ranged weapons now anyway when you can assault out of vehicles?
Harriticus wrote: GW doesn't design rules with any real insight besides "force players to buy more stuff". This kind of rule is just more or less randomly put in there without real planning or care.
Hmm… that is a point. I can sorta see one of them attempting to explain it to a player.
GW Designer: Now your Vets can assault out of Chimeras and Salamanders! This is great news!
Us: But why would we want our elite shooting units to assault?
GWD: It gives them more flexibility.
Us: They were already pretty flexible. But ignoring that, why can Guard Vets assault out of a vehicle yet Marines can’t assault out of a Rhino? Or Genestealers can’t assault after outflanking. I mean, imagine if the battle was taking part 20 meters to the side – those ‘Stealers would no longer be outflanking; they’d just be there! – so why the special treatment for Guard Vets?
GWD: Look! *shakes box of plastic Ogryns in our face* Ogryns!
Us: What are you doi–
GWD: Oooooh-grynssss! *continues to shake box*
I gak you not I had a (now former) GW store manager do something like that to me once. Git would literally take things off the shelf and put it in your hands as a ploy to coerce you into feeling like you had to buy something. Just imagining that guy going "ooooooo.... ooohhhhhgrynnnssss" made my night.
Harriticus wrote: GW doesn't design rules with any real insight besides "force players to buy more stuff". This kind of rule is just more or less randomly put in there without real planning or care.
Hmm… that is a point. I can sorta see one of them attempting to explain it to a player.
GW Designer: Now your Vets can assault out of Chimeras and Salamanders! This is great news!
Us: But why would we want our elite shooting units to assault?
GWD: It gives them more flexibility.
Us: They were already pretty flexible. But ignoring that, why can Guard Vets assault out of a vehicle yet Marines can’t assault out of a Rhino? Or Genestealers can’t assault after outflanking. I mean, imagine if the battle was taking part 20 meters to the side – those ‘Stealers would no longer be outflanking; they’d just be there! – so why the special treatment for Guard Vets?
GWD: Look! *shakes box of plastic Ogryns in our face* Ogryns!
Us: What are you doi–
GWD: Oooooh-grynssss! *continues to shake box*
Slaanesh-Devotee wrote: Guard Vets assaulting from vehicles won't happen. GW have shown that this is 'non-negotiable' from all the previous codices and BRB, only disembarking from an Assault vehicle allows charging.
Rapid Assault: The Astra Millitariumiiness Veterans are extremely capable and versitile soldiers, employing tactics and strategies far and beyond the rank and file Astaratron Millitarysuperindustrialcomplex Guard troopers. Any vehicle that has Veterans embarked within gains the Assault Vehicle special rule. The vehicle loses the rule once the Veterans have completed disembarking.
That was easy. GW can just change the rules at a whim. Never forget that.
I think the internal discussion would go as:
GW designer: Now your Vets can assault out of Chimeras and Salamanders! This is great news!
GW exec: What's a Chimera?
GW designer: well you s...
GW exec: Does this sell more models
GW designer: Well not really bu...
GW exec: You're not with the internet are you? Those internet things are always talking about rules! This sounds like internet talk! Is that what a Chimera is?!
GW designer: No! I swear! I'm not with the internet!
GW exec: Our lawyers will see about that when my letter to them arrives in the mail. So what were you talking about again
GW designer: Just about the rules of th..
GW exec: How much do we charge for rules
So if I have followed the rumors correctly, the following kits have been rumored to be include in the IG release:
Plastic Ogryn
Plastic Stormyroopers/vets
Plastic Flyer ( new not seen before)
Plastic baby super Heavy tank (Malcador)
Plastic steel legion
Plastic artillery
Plastic hydra
Plastic rough riders
Plastic griffon / salamander
...
Is it just me or does that seem like too much? I can buy the stuff that is currently metal being made into plastic kits. However, for Gaurd, there is still so much metal, Ogryn, rough riders, Steel Legion...
So I am guessing we won't see half of the rumored stuff in April, but may see it rolled out over the course of the year.
Plastic Steel Legion are very unlikely. At this point I think it more likely to see new plastic Catachans and revised Cadian Shock Troops than plastic Steel Legion. GW seems fairly happy with having the Cadian aesthetic continuing.
In terms of what's metal for Guard, you have:
Psykers
Advisors
Commissars
Ogryn
Rough Riders
Kasrkin/Stormtroopers
Lots of named characters(Harker, Al'Rahem, Straken, Marbo, etc) and HQ/Platoon Command officer variants
Ratlings
The HQ stuff could easily be seeing a plastic clamshell release, Ogryn as a dual box with another Ogryn unit would work, and a plastic Kasrkin/Stormtroopers box being able to make a "Veteran" squad as well is not beyond belief.
A new flyer is a given I think for us to see an "attack" craft option in addition to the Valkyrie "transport" option we've already got.
I'm surprised its taken this long for GW to make plastic ogryns.
When even your big names (Phil Kelly and I am sure I saw another one in white dwarf) are using converted fantasy ogres instead, you know something is wrong with the models.
Okay, I'm fine with that. I mean, if Plasma Guns/Melta Guns are supposed to be rare within the Imperial Guard, loading up a bunch of mooks (even if they are veteran mooks) with them seems like something the Imperium wouldn't do.
Rules wise, is was kind of silly the amount of firepower they could put out, especially since for some reason those Humans who managed to survive one campaign could shoot as well as Space Marine/Space Marine Veterans who have fought in dozens. 2 Special Weapons for 10 seems more fair and in line with other books.
For the new Ogryns/Bullgryns... For new plastics released in 6th so far, have there been any bad units? Or can guard players look forward to fielding Ogryns?
BrookM wrote: Still hoping for that plastic Thunderbolt kit.
You and me both! I've hovered over the checkout button on Forgeworld many, many times, but a plastic one would be what it takes me to finally pull the trigger. It's an older kit, so I guess it's more likely than most other models to turn from Forgeworld to plastic, even if they don't really do that anymore.
Tell me about it, I gifted one to a friend, she spent most of the time fixing and correcting it before even getting to prime and paint it! Really want one myself, but not from Forge World!
Foolheart wrote: So if I have followed the rumors correctly, the following kits have been rumored to be include in the IG release:
Plastic griffon / salamander
...
Any thoughts?
........... Actually, in regards to hunter tanks and salamanders, GW will include profiles in the new codex so fw models can be used. No new kits, just existing fw now included.....
Foolheart wrote: So if I have followed the rumors correctly, the following kits have been rumored to be include in the IG release:
Plastic Ogryn
Plastic Stormyroopers/vets
Plastic Flyer ( new not seen before)
Plastic baby super Heavy tank (Malcador)
Plastic steel legion
Plastic artillery
Plastic hydra
Plastic rough riders
Plastic griffon / salamander
...
Is it just me or does that seem like too much? I can buy the stuff that is currently metal being made into plastic kits. However, for Gaurd, there is still so much metal, Ogryn, rough riders, Steel Legion...
So I am guessing we won't see half of the rumored stuff in April, but may see it rolled out over the course of the year.
Any thoughts?
You probably won't see half of that stuff ever. Remember what happened with all the rumored kits for Tyranids.
Foolheart wrote: So if I have followed the rumors correctly, the following kits have been rumored to be include in the IG release:
Plastic griffon / salamander
...
Any thoughts?
........... Actually, in regards to hunter tanks and salamanders, GW will include profiles in the new codex so fw models can be used. No new kits, just existing fw now included.....
Are you speculating or are you saying this as a new rumor?
BrookM wrote: Still hoping for that plastic Thunderbolt kit.
........ Since the valk will now (supposedly) be able to take vendetta loadout, that leaves open another fast choice. GW may in fact allow a thunderbolt model from fw, but might have new air to ground weapons, in essence making a "new" fighter.... I remember way back when, fw had a valk model only (no GW plastic), and many said GW wouldn't make a plastic valk since fw had one already... But there it is, so a plastic thunderbolt (or tweaked) model is probable....
A few years before the plastic Valkyrie was released the CAD design of it was used in one of FW's two Aeronautica Imperialis books, an interesting preview to say the least.
The more I think about it, the only thing I really want is a remotely internally balanced Codex. I'm not even that picky about its overall power level as long as everything is even somewhat viable.
I know, probably wishlisting more than the plastic Steel Legion stuff, but a man can dream.
The older rumour was a new guard box or sprue that would have steel legion & supposedly trench coat (waists) (i.e. valhallan).....
I am more interested in the knight paladin rumor, since there are two separate "eye witnesses" of the said model... stating "...it was about 7.5" tall and stayed true to the original style..".. That'd be great & since almost every army is getting, or has, a giant walker, that'd be probable IMHO
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: I am more interested in the knight paladin rumor, since there are two separate "eye witnesses" of the said model... stating "...it was about 7.5" tall and stayed true to the original style..".. That'd be great & since almost every army is getting, or has, a giant walker, that'd be probable IMHO
BrookM wrote: A few years before the plastic Valkyrie was released the CAD design of it was used in one of FW's two Aeronautica Imperialis books, an interesting preview to say the least.
The FW 28mm scaled Valk came out in winter 2005/ spring 06 (I had one & it was a pain to put together!) & GWs plastic out in 2009....aeronautica Released in January 2007.....
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: I am more interested in the knight paladin rumor, since there are two separate "eye witnesses" of the said model... stating "...it was about 7.5" tall and stayed true to the original style..".. That'd be great & since almost every army is getting, or has, a giant walker, that'd be probable IMHO
Were they really two different people?
Yes, the 40k Radio folks recently, and last November by .... I forget the source right now, but let me google it again....might have been StrykerSniper 11-8-2013
gravitywell wrote: For the new Ogryns/Bullgryns... For new plastics released in 6th so far, have there been any bad units? Or can guard players look forward to fielding Ogryns?
(ie GW wants people to buy them)
I don’t play either army, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard a good thing said about how the Tau and Dark Angels flyers play. So just because it’s new does not mean it’s going to be good.
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: I am more interested in the knight paladin rumor, since there are two separate "eye witnesses" of the said model... stating "...it was about 7.5" tall and stayed true to the original style..".. That'd be great & since almost every army is getting, or has, a giant walker, that'd be probable IMHO
Were they really two different people?
Yes, the 40k Radio folks recently, and last November by .... I forget the source right now, but let me google it again....
Save yourself some time... 40kradio didn't actually say they had seen them (that I've seen). Vela and must stay anonymous source for Natfka did but they are low reliability pile on folks.
Foolheart wrote: Is it just me or does that seem like too much? I can buy the stuff that is currently metal being made into plastic kits. However, for Gaurd, there is still so much metal, Ogryn, rough riders, Steel Legion...
So I am guessing we won't see half of the rumored stuff in April, but may see it rolled out over the course of the year.
Any thoughts?
First, I consider some of the track records of a couple of the rumormongers involved. Next, I think about what we've seen with 6th edition codices -- rulesets that are more tweaked than overhauled, alongside a moderate number of new kits.
So yeah, put me down as highly skeptical about anything more than that. Don't get me wrong though -- I'm all for the rumors flowing. I'm just going to be extremely skeptical of rumors that don't fit the 6th edition pattern, or from people who have gotten things very, very wrong in the recent past.
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: I am more interested in the knight paladin rumor, since there are two separate "eye witnesses" of the said model... stating "...it was about 7.5" tall and stayed true to the original style..".. That'd be great & since almost every army is getting, or has, a giant walker, that'd be probable IMHO
Were they really two different people?
Yes, the 40k Radio folks recently, and last November by .... I forget the source right now, but let me google it again....
Save yourself some time... 40kradio didn't actually say they had seen them (that I've seen). Vela and must stay anonymous source for Natfka did but they are low reliability pile on folks.
I hear ya bro. If it happens great. If it doesn't, I am making my own!
I'm not particularly interested in getting the Ogryn models to begin with, unless they really look something special I'd vastly prefer to eventually build a squad of Thallax and use them as Ogryns.
I'd really, really like to get good rules and good models for Rough Riders, even more than Stormies. It would vastly increase the variety of my games (not to say I don't do the odd gung-ho charge where I forget I'm using Guardsmen) and would fit with my main company's recon/light infantry theme quite well.
Also, for the love of god and all that is great, please give me Beast Hunter shells in Codex for my Vanquishers. I don't want to get boned by Riptides once the Vendetta gets nerfed into oblivion.
I am looking forward to what they do with the flyer and new big kit for IG.
Most armies I'm pretty "meh" about the flyer and big kit they get because they feel shoehorned in. But IG to me have always been about cool flyers and cool tanks, so I'm very interested to see what they do with them.
My only question is should I buy a bunch of Heavy Weapon teams now to avoid the inevitable price rise, LOL.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I am looking forward to what they do with the flyer and new big kit for IG.
Most armies I'm pretty "meh" about the flyer and big kit they get because they feel shoehorned in. But IG to me have always been about cool flyers and cool tanks, so I'm very interested to see what they do with them.
My only question is should I buy a bunch of Heavy Weapon teams now to avoid the inevitable price rise, LOL.
I was thinking about buying up some hvy weapon teams too, but I worried gw will make them not worth running or add on new weapons that are far better than current choices lol.
I am pretty excited for this release, being the first time I've had an army prior to an update. I don't really care for ogryns, but if the rules are good I might pick some up.
They've been trending towards Latin names... Adeptus Astra Telepathica, Adepta Sororitas, Adeptus Mechanicus, Ordo Malleus, and so on..... Seems likely....
Automatically Appended Next Post: Adeptus Militaris would be most likely if anything...
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I am looking forward to what they do with the flyer and new big kit for IG.
Most armies I'm pretty "meh" about the flyer and big kit they get because they feel shoehorned in. But IG to me have always been about cool flyers and cool tanks, so I'm very interested to see what they do with them.
My only question is should I buy a bunch of Heavy Weapon teams now to avoid the inevitable price rise, LOL.
I was thinking about buying up some hvy weapon teams too, but I worried gw will make them not worth running or add on new weapons that are far better than current choices lol.
I am pretty excited for this release, being the first time I've had an army prior to an update. I don't really care for ogryns, but if the rules are good I might pick some up.
I almost got some last week but there were only Rambo IGHWTs available at the store.I'm not worried about the HW loosing their place in the IG. I don't think the HWT box will get new weapons plus with a little bit of work the HWT is one of the best bang for your money kits GW has.
gravitywell wrote: For the new Ogryns/Bullgryns... For new plastics released in 6th so far, have there been any bad units? Or can guard players look forward to fielding Ogryns?
(ie GW wants people to buy them)
I don’t play either army, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard a good thing said about how the Tau and Dark Angels flyers play. So just because it’s new does not mean it’s going to be good.
The DA fliers are just bad. They suffered a kneejerk nerf after the reaction to fliers in general, so are weaker than they should be.
Tau fliers are decent and flexible, the problem is that they take up points that can be used on Riptides, Broadsides, Crisis suits, and Hammerheads. They aren't bad, they just are generally replaced by other options in the book.
They've been trending towards Latin names... Adeptus Astra Telepathica, Adepta Sororitas, Adeptus Mechanicus, Ordo Malleus, and so on..... Seems likely....
But none of those names were ever anything else were they? When you say trending, you are using examples that have existed the whole time, which isn't really a trend...
Even if they do change the name, it should try to fit in with what already exists and the name I saw rumoured didn't fit which is a shame.
They've been trending towards Latin names... Adeptus Astra Telepathica, Adepta Sororitas, Adeptus Mechanicus, Ordo Malleus, and so on..... Seems likely....
But none of those names were ever anything else were they? When you say trending, you are using examples that have existed the whole time, which isn't really a trend...
Even if they do change the name, it should try to fit in with what already exists and the name I saw rumoured didn't fit which is a shame.
Not of replacing the name. Things having a High and Low Gothic name is normal. Outright removing "Imperial Guard" and replacing it with a High Gothic name is a bad thing.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Not of replacing the name. Things having a High and Low Gothic name is normal. Outright removing "Imperial Guard" and replacing it with a High Gothic name is a bad thing.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Not of replacing the name. Things having a High and Low Gothic name is normal. Outright removing "Imperial Guard" and replacing it with a High Gothic name is a bad thing.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Not of replacing the name. Things having a High and Low Gothic name is normal. Outright removing "Imperial Guard" and replacing it with a High Gothic name is a bad thing.
Likely just on the cover of the book, product line names. Inside the book I expect them to stay Imperial Guard, ect.
And replacing a low gothic name with a high gothic one? Besides Sisters of Battle/Adepta Sororitas, you have the Space Sharks/Cahcaradons.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Not of replacing the name. Things having a High and Low Gothic name is normal. Outright removing "Imperial Guard" and replacing it with a High Gothic name is a bad thing.
it's happened once already....
No, it hasn't. Even that first Sisters of Battle codex referred to their organisation as the Adepta Sororitas. Both are valid. They did not just make up an entirely new name, like they're doing for the "Astra Militarum".
Assault vehicle veterans sounds terrible, but really consistent with how rules lately has downgraded popular units in favor of new releases or previously obscure units.
To take it all the way, we might see some way to take new ogryns as troops, and forcing competetive list made of ogryns intstead of guard.
(looking at what happend when we finally got wraith guard plastics, but in all fairness eldar guardians are quite good to. Guess im just paranoid).
H.B.M.C. wrote: Not of replacing the name. Things having a High and Low Gothic name is normal. Outright removing "Imperial Guard" and replacing it with a High Gothic name is a bad thing.
it's happened once already....
Thing is its always been the IMPERIAL GUARD, the guardsmen of the emperor, the guard that defends the empire, flakjacket and lasgun, gijoe of the emperium, saving private ryan, band of brothers. Its not some mysterious cult, they are the cannonfodder of the emperiums warmachine, the endless wave of human determination to survive.
There is no need for a namechange, the fluff was great and they are changing it for the sake of marketing and sales.
Ps. if you are the least bit into reading 40k novels that involve the IG you'll understand that changing that name changes the story.
BrookM wrote: Well, it was bound to happen regardless, the Imperial Navy got the title Aeronautica Imperialis somewhere down the line.
They did? When? I don't really follow all the fluff, but I thought they were still the Imperial Navy. Aeronautica Imperialis was the title of the game, I haven't heard the Imperial Navy referred to as Aeronautica Imperialis though.
Is it possible that the 'Astra Militarum' is a larger group than just the Imperial Guard? Like, maybe it includes the navy, PDF forces and so on. All the fighting forces of the Departmento Munitorium?
Personally, I like the name change. 'Imperial Guard' always sounded like the Adeptus Custodes to me.
Perfect Organism wrote: Is it possible that the 'Astra Militarum' is a larger group than just the Imperial Guard? Like, maybe it includes the navy, PDF forces and so on. All the fighting forces of the Departmento Munitorium?
.
No, after the Heresy there was a very clear distinction made between the IN and IG, which were formally branches of the same organisation, and PDFs are under the control of their respective Governors. GW is free with its retcons though so who knows.
I really don't get all the rage about the IG getting an extra Latin name on top of their mundane name, like Sisters, Marines and Ecclesiarchy do.
I mean, practically every other organization of the Imperium have a Latin name.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Palindrome wrote: No, after the Heresy there was a very clear distinction made between the IN and IG, which were formally branches of the same organisation, and PDFs are under the control of their respective Governors.
And so ? Space marines are all part of the Adeptus Astartes even though they belong to different chapters for the very same reason. If they can share a name, while being very different organizations, why could the imperial navy and guard not ?
As I have said their parent organisation was very deliberately and definitively split after the Heresy. Magicing a shared organisation into being which contains both the IN and IG breaks this.
Bull0 wrote: Yeah, exactly. It's hard enough getting people to accept change, but when it's a change for the worse, it's... even worse
How is that for the worse ? It is just an additional name !
Bull0 wrote: So far I haven't seen anyone say they like the name.
I am very indifferent to it, and I think most people are. It is just that few people feel the urge to shout “I am so indifferent to this new name that I am going to use extreme hyperbole at how indifference-inducing this new name is !”
But yeah, I could make a poll. I am just too lazy to do that just to prove such a minor and uninteresting point.
I assume it will be, and I am ready to take bets !
Palindrome wrote: As I have said their parent organisation was very deliberately and definitively split after the Heresy. Magicing a shared organisation into being which contains both the IN and IG breaks this.
You do not read my messages, do you ?
Marines legions were split into chapters after the Heresy.
The imperial army was split into imperial guard and imperial navy after the Heresy.
Marines chapters do not belong to a shared organization (save maybe if said organization is “The Imperium”), but the pseudo-Latin expression Adeptus Astartes still means the space marines of all chapters.
Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy do not belong to a shared organization (save maybe if said organization is “The Imperium”), but the pseudo-Latin expression Astra Militorum still means members of the guard and of the navy.
Do you notice a pattern ?
Bull0 wrote: Yeah, exactly. It's hard enough getting people to accept change, but when it's a change for the worse, it's... even worse
How is that for the worse ? It is just an additional name !
Bull0 wrote: So far I haven't seen anyone say they like the name.
I am very indifferent to it, and I think most people are. It is just that few people feel the urge to shout “I am so indifferent to this new name that I am going to use extreme hyperbole at how indifference-inducing this new name is !” But yeah, I could make a poll. I am just too lazy to do that just to prove such a minor and uninteresting point.
Because they may have replaced the name we like with a name we don't like. It's pretty obvious how that's a change for the worse. Pay attention! And even if it is just additional, it's a change for the worse. Say your name is Dan, and I say "Actually guys, from now on you can either know him as Dan or as Fartbreath, it's up to you" you'd be indifferent?
And I don't buy the "Whenever you see an outcry that's just a vocal minority and the majority are indifferent / the majority like it" argument and never have. People like saying when they like something too, just look around the forum, heaps of examples.
Bull0 wrote: Because they may have replaced the name we like with a name we don't like.
They may. They may also have made change so that every HQ available in the codex are abhumans, too. Now, let us wait until there is an actual rumor that Imperial Guard is totally replaced (unlike what they said for, say, Sisters of Battle) before crying doom and gloom over something extremely unlikely, shall we ?
Bull0 wrote: People like saying when they like something too, just look around the forum, heaps of examples.
They like saying when they like something. But when they are indifferent to something, they usually do not care to say it. Because it seems such a small, unmeaning detail that why waste efforts to say you do not care about it ? Personally, I think the new name add a little coherency by giving a pseudo-Latin name to the guard, but also breaks a little coherency by not using Adeptus. But I will wait until the actual release (or at least more precise rumors) to comment on any fluff change or addition surrounding the new name.
I'd also would've liked a change of Space Marines to Adeptus Astartes. However, as GW claims (rightly or now) that Space Marines is a trademark they own (a claim they never made for Imperial Guard), I am sure they'll defend that one to their dying breath.
Let's just wait and see what they do with it, but if I were to make a guess, I'd suggest that 'Imperial Guard' is unenforceable as an IP/trademark, even less so than Space Marine was when they attempted that, and that just like the fanciful renaming of their paints to ingame specific titles, this proposed renaming is about brand.
There are Imperial Guard in history, Napoleonic Imperial Guard for example, there are Imperial Guard in Star Wars (try taking on Disney for the IP rights there...) and so on. Astra Militarum is a new thing, a brand GW can claim and that fits the pseudo-Latin-gothic of the 40k image. We might well see this sort of extra distinction take place across the GW spectrum as they seek to make their product line readily identifiable and more easily legally protectable. No small task, given how incredibly derivative most of it is from other sources and has been for the last 30 years.
Trio of Warriors, […] the Talisaman world[…]Used without permission. No challenge to their status intended. All Rights Reserved to their respective owners.
What is that first one ? Also lol typo. And last but not least, where did you get that list ? Eatatau ? Then we should warn Darius about the typo.
Trio of Warriors, […] the Talisaman world[…]Used without permission. No challenge to their status intended. All Rights Reserved to their respective owners.
What is that first one ? Also lol typo. And last but not least, where did you get that list ? Eatatau ? Then we should warn Darius about the typo.
MeanGreenStompa wrote: there are Imperial Guard in Star Wars (try taking on Disney for the IP rights there...)
Well, I am pretty sure GW thinking they would be more able to fight Blizzard on Space Marines than to fight Disney on Imperial Guard is like some paraplegic little girl thinking she would have a much better time fighting that angry CRS than she would have fighting that 3-time UFC world champion, i.e. completely delusional.
I have been but nothing that you have written provides a basis for breaking the established fluff. GW clearly doesn't care for its own fluff though so who knows what will happen.
Palindrome wrote: I have been but nothing that you have written provides a basis for breaking the established fluff.
So you do agree that the new name could include navy and guard without breaking established fluff, you also do agree that both could be fielded at the same time without breaking established fluff (doubly now that ally are even more common), but you are still sure that GW will break the established fluff because comic book villainy ?
Well, I am pretty sure GW thinking they would be more able to fight Blizzard on Space Marines than to fight Disney on Imperial Guard is like some paraplegic little girl thinking she would have a much better time fighting that angry CRS than she would have fighting that 3-time UFC world champion, i.e. completely delusional.
Just because it is delusional, doesn't mean they will not do it. We are talking about Games Workshop here! I am pretty sure they will continue to plaster the term "Space Marine" on as many products as prominently as humanly possible, to defend that claim.
So you do agree that the new name could include navy and guard without breaking established fluff, you also do agree that both could be fielded at the same time without breaking established fluff (doubly now that ally are even more common), but you are still sure that GW will break the established fluff because comic book villainy ?
Bull0 wrote: Because they may have replaced the name we like with a name we don't like.
They may. They may also have made change so that every HQ available in the codex are abhumans, too. Now, let us wait until there is an actual rumor that Imperial Guard is totally replaced (unlike what they said for, say, Sisters of Battle) before crying doom and gloom over something extremely unlikely, shall we ?
Sorry dude, I don't know which rumour you read that said "They're using Astra Militarum and Imperial Guard interchangeably and the original name is still in use inside the book" but the rumour I read said it's a name change. You can rationalise it by theorizing that it's only on the front cover, and they'll maintain the old name, but the rumour is that it's a rename, so I'd appreciate you not taking the piss and accusing me of "crying doom and gloom over something extremely unlikely". I'm not doing that, I'm rolling with the rumour as written. Thanks a bunch in advance for your cooperation.
I think some folks are splitting hairs here, or not seeing both sides of the coin. Of course imperial guard will still be called imperial guard, but the rumor should have been stated more clearly that the codex name would (or might) be switched to some "latinized" term for them on the cover &/or the boxes.... after all, we still call sisters of battle, sisters of battle, and space marines (Adeptus Astartes) are still called space marines....
Astra militarum = star soldiers
Adeptus militaris = soldiers of doom (literally doom soldiers, or for imps doom(ed) soldiers...)
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Anpu42 wrote: Who care what they are call, they are still "Operation Meat Sheild" making sure the Marines gat all of the Glory.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So what about the "knight paladin" rumour? Afterall, grey knights have nemesis, tau have riptide, eldar have wraithknight, tyranids have trygon, chaos has khorne lorde of skulls, orks have a stompa, etc.... seems a new heavy in the form of a walking mech would be in line...
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: Astra militarum = star soldiers
Adeptus militaris = soldiers of doom (literally doom soldiers, or for imps doom(ed) soldiers...)
From my very very basic knowledge of Latin militaris/militarum can not translate into soldier. Where Miles, Militis is the base noun in the 3rd declination, so if it were soldier in the same number and case it would look like Militis and militum. Those would translate to "of the soldier/soldiers", a more likely translation would be Military.
Eh, it's a silly new name, and the change is done for legal, not creative reasons.
It's not like the Sisters, where the names were always used interchangbly in the fluff. This is a new name, out of whole cloth.
It's not a big deal, just another example of GW worrying more about putting out a product that can be trademarked then making a product that's well designed. Nothing new to see here.
it's going to be interesting to see players continue to refer to their army as "IG" at tournaments and stuff.
attainment, an obtaining....
military; of a soldier; warlike; [res mllitaris => the art of war]
That is the literall translation, which doesn't make sense....
Obtaining of a soldier
Warlike atainment
I think they got the "Adeptus" (which is a real latin word, albeit decontextualized) from the XIX century meaning of "adept", in the sense of one who has taken the required steps to become part of an occult organization or sect. An initiate.
As for actual Imperial Guard rumors, I'm still waiting.
Polonius wrote: Eh, it's a silly new name, and the change is done for legal, not creative reasons.
It's not like the Sisters, where the names were always used interchangbly in the fluff. This is a new name, out of whole cloth.
It's not a big deal, just another example of GW worrying more about putting out a product that can be trademarked then making a product that's well designed. Nothing new to see here.
it's going to be interesting to see players continue to refer to their army as "IG" at tournaments and stuff.
Yeah which is funny.. Their issues with trademarking ONLY happened after they started to sue every single person who used the word 'warhammer'. Maybe if they would have just made a game people enjoy playing instead of suing websites this wouldn't be a problem for them!
Every other branch of the Imperium has a pseudo-Latin name, doesn't seem silly that the Guard would as well. It's really not going to be very interesting to see people refer to them as IG, unless you have a very specific definition of interesting.
If the codex has a bunch of new plastics (which it has to if they are phasing out metal and FC and not eliminating half the book) and a Knight or super heavies people will be wetting themselves even if the book is called Space Army Soldiers.
I was thinking, and this is just opinion rather than any sort of rumour, that Guard would be the easiest army to justify a lot of plastic kits for.
I've seen several people dismiss rumours on the basis that other releases haven't received as many new plastic kits, but as Guard are probably the most expensive army to collect, requiring a greater number of kits than perhaps any other faction except maybe Orks or Nids, and seem to be one of the most popular factions, perhaps GW thinks it will get a decent enough return on it's investment to put out more new releases than usual?
Don't be dull.
I assume all the IG armor sells well? Seems like they'd be rolling the dice on plastic Ogryns/Ratlings/Roughriders much more than knights/tanks.
plastictrees wrote: Every other branch of the Imperium has a pseudo-Latin name, doesn't seem silly that the Guard would as well. It's really not going to be very interesting to see people refer to them as IG, unless you have a very specific definition of interesting..
it'll be interesting because older players may not know who the Astra Militaria is, as that's a completely new name. Brand new players might not know who the Imperial Guard is.
You generally don't see name changes after 20 years to a major faction, in any context. Although, at one point, the fluff talked about the Imperial Army, not Imperial Guard.
plastictrees wrote: Every other branch of the Imperium has a pseudo-Latin name, doesn't seem silly that the Guard would as well. It's really not going to be very interesting to see people refer to them as IG, unless you have a very specific definition of interesting..
it'll be interesting because older players may not know who the Astra Militaria is, as that's a completely new name. Brand new players might not know who the Imperial Guard is.
You generally don't see name changes after 20 years to a major faction, in any context. Although, at one point, the fluff talked about the Imperial Army, not Imperial Guard.
Presumably, older players who still follow 40K semi-regularly, will be aware of a new Codex coming out, complete with a new name (if rumours are correct) or occasionally check the website to see the name change.
I don't really see this as any more of a problem than an older player not knowing what a Riptide is or being wrong-footed by the fact that 40K now has things called Flyers.
plastictrees wrote: If anything it will weed out all the gamers with hair-trigger psychotic disorders.
Yeah, that's really nice. Alternatively, it'll really appeal to the "We'll eat gak and call it ice cream if you tell us to" crowd.
Those guys are such suckers, not losing their minds if a faction is renamed. Not going to fool me. I'm getting my aquila tattoo removed as I type this.
Polonius wrote: Eh, it's a silly new name, and the change is done for legal, not creative reasons.
It's not like the Sisters, where the names were always used interchangbly in the fluff. This is a new name, out of whole cloth.
It's not a big deal, just another example of GW worrying more about putting out a product that can be trademarked then making a product that's well designed. Nothing new to see here.
it's going to be interesting to see players continue to refer to their army as "IG" at tournaments and stuff.
What were the legal reasons? Sorryto ask, but I came to the thread late and didn't want to slog through several pages to see if the reason was in one of them.
Basically, GW have no right to a good number of things that they assert as trademarks, often because they're utterly derivative or generic, as has been exposed by the Chapterhouse suit, so, subsequently, name changes to things that are more protectable have become de rigeur for GW as they launch new stuff.
The assumption is that GW can't trademark Imperial Guard, so FaceHole Games could produce Imperial Guard bitz.
They can trademark Adorable Spacenheimers, thereby preventing 3rd parties from using that name to sell their bitz.
plastictrees wrote: If anything it will weed out all the gamers with hair-trigger psychotic disorders.
Yeah, that's really nice. Alternatively, it'll really appeal to the "We'll eat gak and call it ice cream if you tell us to" crowd.
Because of a name change. Because a smattering of characters changed and now they're not called the same thing - if this rumor even pans out. I have two Imperial Guard armies and I sincerely don't give a golly gosh darn what their name is on the front of the codex. They're still the Imperial Guard to me, and I don't need to throw away all my models because the boxes they came in back in the day said "Imperial Guard" on them instead of "Astro Doobilydoo" or whatever. There are a lot of silly things people get defensive or angry about in this hobby, but this is seriously one of the dumbest.
plastictrees wrote: If anything it will weed out all the gamers with hair-trigger psychotic disorders.
Yeah, that's really nice. Alternatively, it'll really appeal to the "We'll eat gak and call it ice cream if you tell us to" crowd.
Those guys are such suckers, not losing their minds if a faction is renamed. Not going to fool me. I'm getting my aquila tattoo removed as I type this.
Yeah, they certainly seem like frothing mentalists if you ascribe behaviours to them that they themselves haven't exhibited ("Losing their minds", acting "psychotic", etc). As I understand it, on the internet it's both big and clever to do that. Particularly when it's about a topic so crucial as this. So kudos once again.
Just remember kids - people who care about a thing more than you do are, by definition, suitable only for ridicule. You're right to not give a damn, and long may you continue.
Because of a name change. Because a smattering of characters changed and now they're not called the same thing - if this rumor even pans out. I have two Imperial Guard armies and I sincerely don't give a golly gosh darn what their name is on the front of the codex. They're still the Imperial Guard to me, and I don't need to throw away all my models because the boxes they came in back in the day said "Imperial Guard" on them instead of "Astro Doobilydoo" or whatever. There are a lot of silly things people get defensive or angry about in this hobby, but this is seriously one of the dumbest.
Again, find me the people who said they're throwing away their guard army because of this and I'll take the point.
They didn't do that, dude, they just said they hate the new name. They didn't lose their gak or act psychotic or say they're selling their armies or removing their tattoos or whatever. So stop with that, because it's weird.
It's been "Imperial Guard" since Rogue Trader, and it's one of the most popular armies. I don't see too many new players saying, "Oh yeah, inepticus minutestrawman, that's what I want to play!" over something relatively badass in its simplicity: "Space Marine."
plastictrees wrote: If anything it will weed out all the gamers with hair-trigger psychotic disorders.
Yeah, that's really nice. Alternatively, it'll really appeal to the "We'll eat gak and call it ice cream if you tell us to" crowd.
Those guys are such suckers, not losing their minds if a faction is renamed. Not going to fool me. I'm getting my aquila tattoo removed as I type this.
Yeah, they certainly seem like frothing mentalists if you ascribe behaviours to them that they themselves haven't exhibited ("Losing their minds", acting "psychotic", etc). As I understand it, on the internet it's both big and clever to do that. Particularly when it's about a topic so crucial as this. So kudos once again.
Just remember kids - people who care about a thing more than you do are, by definition, suitable only for ridicule. You're right to not give a damn, and long may you continue.
Because of a name change. Because a smattering of characters changed and now they're not called the same thing - if this rumor even pans out. I have two Imperial Guard armies and I sincerely don't give a golly gosh darn what their name is on the front of the codex. They're still the Imperial Guard to me, and I don't need to throw away all my models because the boxes they came in back in the day said "Imperial Guard" on them instead of "Astro Doobilydoo" or whatever. There are a lot of silly things people get defensive or angry about in this hobby, but this is seriously one of the dumbest.
Again, find me the people who said they're throwing away their guard army because of this and I'll take the point.
They didn't do that, dude, they just said they hate the new name. They didn't lose their gak or act psychotic or say they're selling their armies or removing their tattoos or whatever. So stop with that, because it's weird.
Your compassion for the 'kids' seems to have blinded you to...words.
My response was making fun of the idea that people's reactions would be 'interesting'. Hence the absurd suggestion that they would 'lose their gak'.
I apologise for making you feel weird on the internet.
plastictrees wrote: Every other branch of the Imperium has a pseudo-Latin name, doesn't seem silly that the Guard would as well. It's really not going to be very interesting to see people refer to them as IG, unless you have a very specific definition of interesting..
it'll be interesting because older players may not know who the Astra Militaria is, as that's a completely new name. Brand new players might not know who the Imperial Guard is.
You generally don't see name changes after 20 years to a major faction, in any context. Although, at one point, the fluff talked about the Imperial Army, not Imperial Guard.
I'm sure there are Fluff Masters out there who can correct me but I believe Imperial Army is now the term used for pre Heresy/ during Heresy regiments. Rogue Trader may have used Imperial Army instead of Guard but then they also had a half Eldar Ultramarines officer so things have been rewritten or thankfully forgotten over time.
plastictrees wrote: If anything it will weed out all the gamers with hair-trigger psychotic disorders.
Yeah, that's really nice. Alternatively, it'll really appeal to the "We'll eat gak and call it ice cream if you tell us to" crowd.
Its certainly an interesting change to defend. There seem to be no fluff reasons for it, I'm not buying the "it ties the imperial armies together to all have high gothic names" theory, as all of the major SM chapters have anglo-saxon names, and if anything, it felt cool to have the more mystical/elite/special imperial factions be more gothicy.
That said, Imperial Guard is a really, really dumb name. But so is "Ultramarines," so I guess YMMV.
I guess for me, it's a change that's not really all that bad, but seems to have no real benefit. I'm not sure 3rd Party bitz makers hurt GW, at least not appreciably. So their decision to try to make it harder for them only hurts them, and likely doens't benefit GW.
I'm not opposed to GW making money. If they renamed the Blood Angels "Star Vampires" because they think they can sell models to fans of vampires, I'd shrug and enjoy having more opponents and a financially robust GW. I just don't see the upside here, but I obviously could be wrong.
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Kosake wrote: Wait a bit... assuming that GW trademarks some "Astra Militarum" one may conclude that they can't trademark "Imperial Guard".
Which means, that after they trademarked the unpopular Astra Whaterverium, any other company can just straight up use the name "Imperial Guard".
Are they crazy? That would basically mean forfeiting the rights to IG or am I wrong...?
I'm pretty sure Imperial Guard can't be trademarked, as its simply too generic. Even in the realm of miniatures gaming (about the narrowest industry trademarks would look at), you have Napoleonics, where both France and Russia fielded Imperial Guard regiments.
Kosake wrote: Wait a bit... assuming that GW trademarks some "Astra Militarum" one may conclude that they can't trademark "Imperial Guard".
Which means, that after they trademarked the unpopular Astra Whaterverium, any other company can just straight up use the name "Imperial Guard".
Are they crazy? That would basically mean forfeiting the rights to IG or am I wrong...?
That's already the case. The name change is because the trademark is indefensible, as it predates GW's use by centuries, conceivably millennia, they forfeit nothing, because they don't have anything.
Awesome. So Kromlech, Chapterhouse, Victorian Miniatures or whoever feels like it can now just straight-up design kits and sell them as Imperial Guard. Not sure it changes much, but on some basic level i find this satisfying.
Prolly won't happen, why risk the (somewhat inpept) wrath of GW Finelegal™ when you can simply carry on as you are without the unnecessary time, cost and hassle that would be involved even if you're in the right?
Kosake wrote: Awesome. So Kromlech, Chapterhouse, Victorian Miniatures or whoever feels like it can now just straight-up design kits and sell them as Imperial Guard.
Since forever, EVERYONE (including GW and all those other companies) could just straight-up design kits and sell them as Imperial Guard.
Kosake wrote: Awesome. So Kromlech, Chapterhouse, Victorian Miniatures or whoever feels like it can now just straight-up design kits and sell them as Imperial Guard. Not sure it changes much, but on some basic level i find this satisfying.
Lol@everything GW does revolving around their stupid paranoia. "oh no! Someone else can use the name Imperial Guard!" Time to change this!
GW sure showed us. All those people who were just copying the Imperial Guard everywhere have now been foiled! We've shat on decades of fluff and created a ridiculous name no customer will want. This is great news!
Seriously GW stole Stormtroopers from Star Wars which stole them from Germany, and you don't see the Germans or Lucas freaking out at GW. All that GW has gotten from this is the little kids they market towards will get confused and want Imperial Guard, with mommy being unable to find any.
It's a silly name change IMO because if I were asked by someone who knows nothing about 40k and table top gaming "what army do you play?" I'd much rather reply "Imperial Guard" than "Stupida Moronicus".
Personally I think Imperial Guard has more kerb appeal and they should have kept it for that reason. It's not like changing the name is going to magically stop other companies from making futuristic soldiers, and didn't the chapterhouse case prove that a 3rd party maker is fully within their rights to advertise a component as being "Astra Militarum compatible" anyway?
Thus illustrating the problem with the written word for casual communication.
It's really, really easy to see a complaint that you don't happen to agree with, and imbue it with a whole lot more emotion than is actually present. So rather than people just accepting that someone on the internet doesn't like the things that I like, I just dismiss it as 'whining' or 'butthurt' or whatever other hyperbolic phrasing lets me treat it as someone turning an inconsequential thing into a big issue... when in reality, it's more the hyperbolic response doing that (when the original poster takes offense at their opinion being dismissed as 'whining') than the original complaint was in the first place...
Because of a name change. Because a smattering of characters changed and now they're not called the same thing - if this rumor even pans out. I have two Imperial Guard armies and I sincerely don't give a golly gosh darn what their name is on the front of the codex. They're still the Imperial Guard to me, and I don't need to throw away all my models because the boxes they came in back in the day said "Imperial Guard" on them instead of "Astro Doobilydoo" or whatever. There are a lot of silly things people get defensive or angry about in this hobby, but this is seriously one of the dumbest.
Spees Marines totally need to ally with Astro Doobilydoo in your next episode!
Thus illustrating the problem with the written word for casual communication.
It's really, really easy to see a complaint that you don't happen to agree with, and imbue it with a whole lot more emotion than is actually present. So rather than people just accepting that someone on the internet doesn't like the things that I like, I just dismiss it as 'whining' or 'butthurt' or whatever other hyperbolic phrasing lets me treat it as someone turning an inconsequential thing into a big issue... when in reality, it's more the hyperbolic response doing that (when the original poster takes offense at their opinion being dismissed as 'whining') than the original complaint was in the first place...
EXALTED!
And all too true - and saved for future reference and use too!
Polonius wrote: Eh, it's a silly new name, and the change is done for legal, not creative reasons.
Which is exactly my problem with it. This isn't a change that enriches the game or the universe. This is a change so that they can add a little '™' after everything.
Bull0 wrote: Yeah, they certainly seem like frothing mentalists if you ascribe behaviours to them that they themselves haven't exhibited ("Losing their minds", acting "psychotic", etc). As I understand it, on the internet it's both big and clever to do that. Particularly when it's about a topic so crucial as this. So kudos once again.
Just remember kids - people who care about a thing more than you do are, by definition, suitable only for ridicule. You're right to not give a damn, and long may you continue.
I'm startin' to like you more and more Bull0.
And yeah, you stole the words right outta my mouth.
Thus illustrating the problem with the written word for casual communication.
It's really, really easy to see a complaint that you don't happen to agree with, and imbue it with a whole lot more emotion than is actually present. So rather than people just accepting that someone on the internet doesn't like the things that I like, I just dismiss it as 'whining' or 'butthurt' or whatever other hyperbolic phrasing lets me treat it as someone turning an inconsequential thing into a big issue... when in reality, it's more the hyperbolic response doing that (when the original poster takes offense at their opinion being dismissed as 'whining') than the original complaint was in the first place...
Sig'd for truth. I could not have put the stupidity of this habit in better words.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: If you'll excuse me, I now have to go retag every IG entry in the gallery "Space Military".
^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS GUY!
I'm gonna chime in here. Not with anything really pertinent mind, but just how I feel about this.
I don't like the idea that the IG might get a name change. Especially to one so uh... goofy as "Astra Militarum". I wish they'd leave it as Imperial Guard. I wish this not for any other reason other then that I like the name Imperial Guard.
But you know what, if they do change it, oh well I'll get over it. It's no use railing against something that you can't change. It's no use railing against something that may not even happen. So you know what? I'm not going to. I no longer care if they change the name of the Imperial Guard to the Astra Militarum. I'll still be collecting futuristic humans with laser guns and shoddy armour after the new book drops, name change or not.
Just as a question... When they do release codex "we like Latin sounding names", is FFG going to have to come up with new editions of its books, or will they just let the publishing cycle runits course? I'm thinking of Only War specifically. II'm perial Guard might be mentioned once or twice in those books.
The name change makes no sense, trademark issues or not. Why wasn't Codex: SM called Codex: Adeptus Astartes then? Is that in the pipeline? The term Space Marine is just as generic as Imperial Guard.
I assume this change lines up with the re-print of the rulebook this summer, since they need to change the name of the army in the core rules if they want to have any consistency other than 'Yeah that FAQ in that one WD weekly said blabla'.
Therion wrote: The name change makes no sense, trademark issues or not. Why wasn't Codex: SM called Codex: Adeptus Astartes then? Is that in the pipeline? The term Space Marine is just as generic as Imperial Guard.
I assume this change lines up with the re-print of the rulebook this summer, since they need to change the name of the army in the core rules if they want to have any consistency other than 'Yeah that FAQ in that one WD weekly said blabla'.
GW is very spiteful/paranoid, and my guess is they didn't want to show that they had any intention that the term "Space Marine" didn't belong to anyone but them. GW got swatted down after the Spots the Space Marine debacle (which btw made me buy the book out of solidarity) but I'm sure they still maintain that evil book stole from them.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Just as a question... When they do release codex "we like Latin sounding names", is FFG going to have to come up with new editions of its books, or will they just let the publishing cycle runits course? I'm thinking of Only War specifically. II'm perial Guard might be mentioned once or twice in those books.
This is actually the other reason this annoys me so much.
Kosake wrote: Wait a bit... assuming that GW trademarks some "Astra Militarum" one may conclude that they can't trademark "Imperial Guard".
Which means, that after they trademarked the unpopular Astra Whaterverium, any other company can just straight up use the name "Imperial Guard".
Are they crazy? That would basically mean forfeiting the rights to IG or am I wrong...?
You're basically correct. "Imperial Guard" belongs to everyone - neither GW nor anyone else can stop anyone using it. If you have an Emperor, or an empire, and there is guarding involved, "Imperial Guard" is an obvious name to pick, just like marines (i.e. naval infantry) on spaceships would naturally be called Space Marines.
But yeah, GW is abandoning the name everyone wants, purely because everyone can have it.
Is it possible that Imperial Guard will still be a term used in the book, but they use the Astra Giganticus to cover the guard, knights, naval flyers etc. ?
plastictrees wrote: Is it possible that Imperial Guard will still be a term used in the book, but they use the Astra Giganticus to cover the guard, knights, naval flyers etc. ?
It's possible. I am curious to see if the flyers will still be referred to as Imperial Navy.
attainment, an obtaining....
military; of a soldier; warlike; [res mllitaris => the art of war]
That is the literall translation, which doesn't make sense....
Obtaining of a soldier
Warlike atainment
I think they got the "Adeptus" (which is a real latin word, albeit decontextualized) from the XIX century meaning of "adept", in the sense of one who has taken the required steps to become part of an occult organization or sect. An initiate.
Adeptus (or adept) means one who has obtained mastery in some field of study. Fatum is the latin word for doom. Militaris is military or martial.
Adeptus Militaris is just as it reads, military adepts or people who have attained some basic understanding of martial combat (not to be confused with martial arts).
Discussing lists and tactics is for, well, the lists and tactics forum.
In the absence of new info, this thread has followed the typical pre-release pattern of falling into dissection of the little snippets we do have, and will likely continue until new info arrives, or one of the Mods decides enough is enough and locks it (which, should that happen, will be the third or fourth IG thread to die in this way)
Only things I'm curious about is if we'll see the return of doctrines (highly doubt it) and whether Leman Russ tanks will keep the heavy rule or if lumbering behemoth will come back.
I also, REALLY hope platoons stay roughly intact. It was such a fun part of running IG since it gave you so many options for how to run your army. You could kit out a platoon to do almost any job imaginable and I will be very sad if it just gets turned into a generic swarm entry like Ork Boy mobz or Gaunt swarms.
Also I predict penal legion and rough riders will get removed. The nid codex showed us that models that don't have rules have a good chance of getting canned. I have a bad feeling Catachans will probably have a separate supplement as well.
I just think its a shame that a move to plastics only may end the diverse look of the Guard that 2nd Ed 40k brought in.
I know from a background point of view that as campaigns go on regiments will shrink, merge, be supplied with whatever the Munitorium can procure and will possibly end up looking 'standard' but I like the diversity.
Good job so many other companies are providing us with choices. Danamian Jungle Fighters anyone?
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Just as a question... When they do release codex "we like Latin sounding names", is FFG going to have to come up with new editions of its books, or will they just let the publishing cycle runits course? I'm thinking of Only War specifically. II'm perial Guard might be mentioned once or twice in those books.
I strongly suspect that the IG will have dual names just like Marines, if only because there is no way that GW will ever be able to prevent the IG being called the IG. I know that I won't be the only one ignoring any name change.
FFG may have to do a bit of editing, but not much.
Adeptus Militaris is just as it reads, military adepts or people who have attained some basic understanding of martial combat (not to be confused with martial arts).
But the rumoured name is "Astra militarum", which is a lot more nonsensical.
Honestly if they'd gone with Adeptus Militant or something that at least sounded like a 40k term we're familiar with, the reaction probably wouldn't be so strong.
BrookM wrote: A better name would be Militarium Imperialis, seeing as the Navy is called the Aeronautica Imperialis.
You said this earlier... but is the Imperial Navy actually called that? I haven't read a lot of the books, but I've only ever heard the Imperial Navy called the Imperial Navy, even in the Aeronautica Imperialis books (which is the name of the game, not the Imperial force).
BrookM wrote: A better name would be Militarium Imperialis, seeing as the Navy is called the Aeronautica Imperialis.
You said this earlier... but is the Imperial Navy actually called that? I haven't read a lot of the books, but I've only ever heard the Imperial Navy called the Imperial Navy, even in the Aeronautica Imperialis books (which is the name of the game, not the Imperial force).
I am not aware of the Imperial Navy being called anything else. It's possible that this is a new fluff element but surely it should be Aethernautica (or something similar) rather than Aeronautica given that the IN operates in space?
insaniak wrote: It's really, really easy to see a complaint that you don't happen to agree with, and imbue it with a whole lot more emotion than is actually present.
It happens even more often when rather than seeing one complaint, one sees multiple people making multiple posts to complain, while using a lot of hyperbole and turning speculation into fact, for some reason.
insaniak wrote: It's really, really easy to see a complaint that you don't happen to agree with, and imbue it with a whole lot more emotion than is actually present.
It happens even more often when rather than seeing one complaint, one sees multiple people making multiple posts to complain, while using a lot of hyperbole and turning speculation into fact, for some reason.
Turning speculation into fact like that they're going to continue using the name Imperial Guard inside the book? Like you were doing, yeah?
insaniak wrote: It's really, really easy to see a complaint that you don't happen to agree with, and imbue it with a whole lot more emotion than is actually present.
It happens even more often when rather than seeing one complaint, one sees multiple people making multiple posts to complain, while using a lot of hyperbole and turning speculation into fact, for some reason.
Turning speculation into fact like that they're going to continue using the name Imperial Guard inside the book? Like you were doing, yeah?
Not any more speculation that turning a rumour about a change-of-name of the product into an assumed absolute purge of the words "Imperial Guard" in the entire publication.
It seems not unreasonable to assume (though it is an assumption) that a new faux-Latin name like 'Astra Militarum' will be used in a similar way as other faux-Latin names in GW's lore (e.g. along the lines of Adeptus Astartes, Adepta Sororitas) have been used in the past.
The assumption (likewise an assumption) that the Astra Militarum faux-Latin name will be used very differently from comparable faux-Latin names in 40K (e.g. along the lines of Adeptus Astartes, Adepta Sororitas) as to replace any and all references to the non-Latin description of the same faction, without exception, is the more improbable interpretation.
I have a hard time getting excited by these rumors.
IG was my first army in a table top game, but lately I have been focusing more on Flames of War, so GW has to release something interesting for me to get it. I have plenty of tanks from FW, so if I can get to use them in the Codex, fine with me. The IG range does lack some interesting infantry, so that is the sort of thing that would get my interest.
I'd also would've liked a change of Space Marines to Adeptus Astartes. However, as GW claims (rightly or now) that Space Marines is a trademark they own (a claim they never made for Imperial Guard), I am sure they'll defend that one to their dying breath.
There was a rumor on BOLS that said they might actually rename Space Marines to "Adeptus Astartes".
I prefer GW's made up Latin to what they have now. I can't wait until they re-brand Space Marines as Adeptus Astartes... From what our source told us Space Marines will get a name change in the future.
WayneTheGame wrote: Well to be fair, they were reposting from 40k Radio, which as I understand it has a higher cred rating than BOLS or that Fait person.
Hmmmmm
Still think it's unlikely - sounds too much like an Astra Militarum pile-in rumour - but 40K Radio's record is strong, I admit.
Besides the least exciting and least meaningful rumor about a name, can we get back to discussing more substantial validity in the rumors that really mean something?
New Rules, how likely?
Mission Objectives Special Rule, Minor orders for squad sergeants. Codex Imperial Guard launches in February/March 2014? Or April? Lots of rule refreshes, Expanded command system, Return of Doctrines, Each Regiment has its own doctrines Cadians - 2 orders per unit Catachans - Move through cover plus Jungle Fighter......thoughts?
HQ
Big HQ Shakeup. Lots of deleted and modified units. Begin by buying a command squad, can switch officer for a Commissar. 3 current advisors return, plus Primaris Psyker as an advisor. Ministorum Priests return with potential buffs to a units ranged as well as close assault potential. (possibly preferred enemy special rule) Priests join squads and don't use an HQ slot. Enginseer remains the same but moves from HQ to Elite or Heavy Support. They act like Necron Royal Courts in that they're bought with certain upgrades and attached to other units thus conferring benefits.
Elites
New Plastic Stormtrooper/Veteran kit. Lots of extra bits to customize your squad and cadians. Bullgryns. 3 Per box, cybernetic enhancements, can be kitted out as ripper gun bearing "classic" ogryns.
Troops
Veterans, Veteran Weapon Squad Reboxing, Veteran squads with smaller sizes and a fire support role, focusing on battlefield specialization. Veterans Size 5-10, can take 1 special or heavy weapon per 5 soldiers. Bastogne removed and now each Vet Sergeant can give orders. Shotguns still an option, Can take a pistol and close combat weapon. Can now assault out of a transport. Special Weapon and Heavy Weapon Squads 10 models.
Dedicated Transports
Salamander transport for CCS/PCS Open-topped Chimera with Autocannon and 6 man transport capacity.
Fast Attack
Vendetta and Valkyrie, Vendetta and Valkyrie streamlined into one unit. Squadron option removed, and an increase in points.Vendetta is removed, Valkyries option to take Vendetta loadout for +45 points.Sentinel, One entry for Sentinels, No armor upgrade, Closed Cabin no in game effect
Heavy Support
New plastic tank based heavily on the Heresy-era Malcador. Bigger than the Land Raider (smaller than a Baneblade) Multiple variants in the kit. Updated Basilisk. Gun assembly is closer to the rear with armored skirts that replace the railing. Looks more armored.
Special Characters
Only Cadian characters within the playtesting list.
New Units
New Horus Heresy era tank. Possibly Forge World Destroyer Tank Hunter in the codex.Thunderer, Thunderer is a cheap Demolisher with just a Demolisher cannon. Destroyer, Dedicated tank hunter with laser-lance. Has a hull down rule which renders it difficult to kill in cover.Imperial Robots 2 new robots which require an Admech handler/enginseerKnight PaladinBetween riptide and Wraithknight height.Vanquisher cannon and Uber-chainsword Can upgrade these to a Punisher Cannon and an Uber-Fist with Inferno Flamers.NEW dog-fighter flyer, is NOT an existing model.
Model Releases
Special weapon squads box set. Veteran squads box set.Heavy Weapon Teams box set. Come in boxes of 5 models, and a big variety of equipment. Griffon/Collosus/Medusa artillery box set. Stormtroopers and Veterans released Include an assortment of optional extras to build command and penal squads. Heavy Weapon Squad repacked to include a single cadian infantry sprue. Special Weapon Squads may receive their own box including a new SW sprue Roughriders plastic box. Steel Legion and Mordian plastics.
bu11etmagn3tt wrote: Besides the least exciting and least meaningful rumor about a name, can we get back to discussing more substantial validity in the rumors that really mean something?
New Rules, how likely?
Mission Objectives Special Rule, Minor orders for squad sergeants. Codex Imperial Guard launches in February/March 2014? Or April? Lots of rule refreshes, Expanded command system, Return of Doctrines, Each Regiment has its own doctrines Cadians - 2 orders per unit Catachans - Move through cover plus Jungle Fighter......thoughts?
HQ
Big HQ Shakeup. Lots of deleted and modified units. Begin by buying a command squad, can switch officer for a Commissar. 3 current advisors return, plus Primaris Psyker as an advisor. Ministorum Priests return with potential buffs to a units ranged as well as close assault potential. (possibly preferred enemy special rule) Priests join squads and don't use an HQ slot. Enginseer remains the same but moves from HQ to Elite or Heavy Support. They act like Necron Royal Courts in that they're bought with certain upgrades and attached to other units thus conferring benefits.
Elites
New Plastic Stormtrooper/Veteran kit. Lots of extra bits to customize your squad and cadians. Bullgryns. 3 Per box, cybernetic enhancements, can be kitted out as ripper gun bearing "classic" ogryns.
Troops
Veterans, Veteran Weapon Squad Reboxing, Veteran squads with smaller sizes and a fire support role, focusing on battlefield specialization. Veterans Size 5-10, can take 1 special or heavy weapon per 5 soldiers. Bastogne removed and now each Vet Sergeant can give orders. Shotguns still an option, Can take a pistol and close combat weapon. Can now assault out of a transport. Special Weapon and Heavy Weapon Squads 10 models.
Dedicated Transports
Salamander transport for CCS/PCS Open-topped Chimera with Autocannon and 6 man transport capacity.
Fast Attack
Vendetta and Valkyrie, Vendetta and Valkyrie streamlined into one unit. Squadron option removed, and an increase in points.Vendetta is removed, Valkyries option to take Vendetta loadout for +45 points.Sentinel, One entry for Sentinels, No armor upgrade, Closed Cabin no in game effect
Heavy Support
New plastic tank based heavily on the Heresy-era Malcador. Bigger than the Land Raider (smaller than a Baneblade) Multiple variants in the kit. Updated Basilisk. Gun assembly is closer to the rear with armored skirts that replace the railing. Looks more armored.
Special Characters
Only Cadian characters within the playtesting list.
New Units
New Horus Heresy era tank. Possibly Forge World Destroyer Tank Hunter in the codex.Thunderer, Thunderer is a cheap Demolisher with just a Demolisher cannon. Destroyer, Dedicated tank hunter with laser-lance. Has a hull down rule which renders it difficult to kill in cover.Imperial Robots 2 new robots which require an Admech handler/enginseerKnight PaladinBetween riptide and Wraithknight height.Vanquisher cannon and Uber-chainsword Can upgrade these to a Punisher Cannon and an Uber-Fist with Inferno Flamers.NEW dog-fighter flyer, is NOT an existing model.
Model Releases
Special weapon squads box set. Veteran squads box set.Heavy Weapon Teams box set. Come in boxes of 5 models, and a big variety of equipment. Griffon/Collosus/Medusa artillery box set. Stormtroopers and Veterans released Include an assortment of optional extras to build command and penal squads. Heavy Weapon Squad repacked to include a single cadian infantry sprue. Special Weapon Squads may receive their own box including a new SW sprue Roughriders plastic box. Steel Legion and Mordian plastics.
Even if half of this is true it would be a good thing. Maybe the enginseers won't be so... useless besides giving first blood..... I would love Doctrines all the different ways you could set your army up.
Personally I most want my Veterans to not become garbage with some stupid crap like one SW per 5 men. That would ruin them, its only the third SW that really makes them worthwhile.
Losing the Vendetta? Eh, I can live with that. But not my Vets. No, no no no.
These latin sounding names are god awful. Who's going to use these terms when talking about their army? It's a rabbit hole of geekery even I don't wanna go down - and I paint tiny toy soldiers.
Mr.Omega wrote: Personally I most want my Veterans to not become garbage with some stupid crap like one SW per 5 men. That would ruin them, its only the third SW that really makes them worthwhile.
Losing the Vendetta? Eh, I can live with that. But not my Vets. No, no no no.
I hope that's one of the things that won't come true I love my vets too!!
But they can assault out of vehicles now! Wooooooooooo.....
I'm sure someone's already done this, but what would we need to see new plastic kits for just for them to keep the units we have right now (assuming that everything going forward needs to be plastic)?
Ogryn, Roughriders, Ratlings, Stormtroopers, Commissars, Advisor types, All Special Characters. Anything else?
So that's 4 boxes and at least half a dozen plastic clamshells.
Throw a Knight in there, because it actually seems pretty likely.
That doesn't seem like a ridiculous amout of stuff, especially split in to two waves. Wouldn't be stunned if ratlings got dropped though.
plastictrees wrote: But they can assault out of vehicles now! Wooooooooooo.....
I'm sure someone's already done this, but what would we need to see new plastic kits for just for them to keep the units we have right now (assuming that everything going forward needs to be plastic)?
Ogryn, Roughriders, Ratlings, Stormtroopers, Commissars, Advisor types, All Special Characters. Anything else?
So that's 4 boxes and at least half a dozen plastic clamshells.
Throw a Knight in there, because it actually seems pretty likely.
That doesn't seem like a ridiculous amout of stuff, especially split in to two waves. Wouldn't be stunned if ratlings got dropped though.
Plus the new tanks and the flyer. I would love a tank bigger than a land raider Guard are the king of tanks after all.
plastictrees wrote: But they can assault out of vehicles now! Wooooooooooo.....
I'm sure someone's already done this, but what would we need to see new plastic kits for just for them to keep the units we have right now (assuming that everything going forward needs to be plastic)?
Ogryn, Roughriders, Ratlings, Stormtroopers, Commissars, Advisor types, All Special Characters. Anything else?
So that's 4 boxes and at least half a dozen plastic clamshells.
Throw a Knight in there, because it actually seems pretty likely.
That doesn't seem like a ridiculous amout of stuff, especially split in to two waves. Wouldn't be stunned if ratlings got dropped though.
Plus the new tanks and the flyer,
Sure, but none of that is confirmed. Neither is the Knight of course, but recent releases point in the 'Big Walker' direction.
I guess my point is, even if they hardly add any new units at all, if they just released plastic kits for everything that is currently in metal or doesn't exist there would be a lot of happy people.
A Stormtrooper/Veteran kit similar to the Sternguard kit? Price aside that would be awesome, and you could probably spread the bitz over 20+ veterans.
It seems a clever way to sort that to me would be to have a Commissar in a Veterans or Stormtrooper box.
I also would expect to see the Roughriders to go before Ratlings, it seems redundant now and FW can offer them to Guard players via Imperial Armour books.
Though it would sadden me, it would indeed not surprise me if Rough Riders were to go. Figures, just when I've got a demi squadron of them using Empire Pistoleers horses and bits from Victoria Miniatures.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: It seems a clever way to sort that to me would be to have a Commissar in a Veterans or Stormtrooper box.
I'd rather an "Imperial Advisors" (or whatever the trademark-able faux-Latin version of that is ), that has a plastic Commissar, Priest, Engineseer, Primaris Psyker and the other three.
BrookM wrote: Though it would sadden me, it would indeed not surprise me if Rough Riders were to go. Figures, just when I've got a demi squadron of them using Empire Pistoleers horses and bits from Victoria Miniatures.
I feel your pain. I've just picked up another five horses prior to a new Vic order going in...plus five of Curious Constructs motorcyclists on the building station.
That would work for me also H.B.M.C, in general the more plastic conversion parts we get the better as far as I'm concerned.
As to the Rough Riders, I'd hate to see them go btw, I just look at the fact they've never really unpdated them since the Mongols on horses, which is looking a bit old hat these days and you can see it going.
Personally I'd love to see either a new Horse based regiment or just Cadians mounted on steeds. However with no parts currently out there, and the fact bits companies have some alternative sculpts. If they don't plan on doing a Rough Rider box, the way GW has acted with the Tyranid codex could easily repeat for Guard players on certain units.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: That would work for me also H.B.M.C, in general the more plastic conversion parts we get the better as far as I'm concerned.
Consider the new Dwarf engineer guy. He comes with four different arm options. The more ways they find to sneak modularity into these single-frame plastic characters the better.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: Personally I'd love to see either a new Horse based regiment or just Cadians mounted on steeds. However with no parts currently out there, and the fact bits companies have some alternative sculpts. If they don't plan on doing a Rough Rider box, the way GW has acted with the Tyranid codex could easily repeat for Guard players on certain units.
Yes, I can see Rough Riders getting removed from the Guard completely. That means the legacy of the Rough Riders will rest with the only remaining in-print Rough Rider rules, written by yours truly for Only War (naturally!).
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: Personally I'd love to see either a new Horse based regiment or just Cadians mounted on steeds. However with no parts currently out there, and the fact bits companies have some alternative sculpts. If they don't plan on doing a Rough Rider box, the way GW has acted with the Tyranid codex could easily repeat for Guard players on certain units.
Personally I'd rather see savages on horses or something completely different than Cadians on horses, it just doesn't fit the Cadian image. Plenty of other regiments to choose from, I'm sure GW still has a third edition Guard codex lying about with all those regiments in the back, it even has a section on Rough Rider formations, "jump to it GW!" I'd say, if I were holding out any hopes.
RoughRiders on two different steed types would blow my mind.
I am now holding my breath until this occurs.
Other than marine kits have GW been producing plastic boxes (40k or Fantasy) that don't make at least two unit types?
That's what makes me dubious that we'll see Ratlings back.
If they were included they would have to expand their role to make them viable for dual kit treatment.
Aye, thats why I noted a new regiment, Cadians would be a last resort because the idea of them on horses doesn't quite gel in my head... but I'd buy them and convert.
plastictrees wrote: But they can assault out of vehicles now! Wooooooooooo.....
Speaking of that, if that rumor comes to pass there's going to be a tremendous amount of teeth-gnashing from BT and World Eaters players, as well as everyone who wants playable Howling Banshees.
BrookM wrote: Another dread scenario I'd rather not see happen, Rough Riders on bikes. It's just not the same..
I still really like the RT era picture of the guard lined up with an officer/commisar on a jetbike. It was a great mix of 2000AD type cyber cool.
They'd have to be a different type of unit though. Basically speedy Veterans.
plastictrees wrote: But they can assault out of vehicles now! Wooooooooooo.....
Speaking of that, if that rumor comes to pass there's going to be a tremendous amount of teeth-gnashing from BT and World Eaters players, as well as everyone who wants playable Howling Banshees.
If it were to happen, it would not just be useless, but also something of a taunt from the devs to the players.
BrookM wrote: Another dread scenario I'd rather not see happen, Rough Riders on bikes. It's just not the same..
I still really like the RT era picture of the guard lined up with an officer/commisar on a jetbike. It was a great mix of 2000AD type cyber cool.
They'd have to be a different type of unit though. Basically speedy Veterans.
Or plain old Guardsmen with a buff to toughness or their armour save, please?
plastictrees wrote: But they can assault out of vehicles now! Wooooooooooo.....
Speaking of that, if that rumor comes to pass there's going to be a tremendous amount of teeth-gnashing from BT and World Eaters players, as well as everyone who wants playable Howling Banshees.
Well, it means that super squishy guard will be leaping out of vehicles and throwing themselves on the chainswords/power swords of all those respective armies, so they might not be too upset.
Unless the background justification is that all IG Veterans are suicidal then I'm sure we're in for a very silly justification for _why_ they can assault out though.
I really hope, a certain US lady will release her new ebook novella "Spot joins the Astra Militarum" in March, with a lovely dedication to the legal team in Nottingham
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yes, I can see Rough Riders getting removed from the Guard completely. That means the legacy of the Rough Riders will rest with the only remaining in-print Rough Rider rules, written by yours truly for Only War (naturally!).
In that case, GG. I hope you made them awesome and badass !
I agree, my dragoons will be sad if they have no rules...
Also anybody worried about the future of Marbo? I have never seen so many conversions in my life, everybody seems to have one and everybody loves making him and so forth. I hope he remains in the next codex because he is one of those characters everyone goes creative on and it adds to variation.
Lack of variation (anyone else sick of seeing cadian after cadian in one of the most diverse armies in the game?) is a huge killer for me, Im so over seeing cadians (and Death Corps for that matter) everywhere and really wish people would get creative with their guard. So hopefully they have doctrines to really help people branch out a bit more.
Same with the cavalry, I think having horses really emphasizes the variatey of the imperial guard.
In regards to special characters I also hope (unlikely) they release "unamed characters" so you have to give the character a name and background, along with your model version. Just something to add more to variation and so on.
BrookM wrote: Chances are Marbo, Straken and Harker will not be in the codex, but rather in Codex: Catachans, or the Catachan 122nd supplement or the like.
Oh well, They should release a supplement "Custom Regiment" style thing, where the book has examples of famous regiments rules (and some characters) and then the rules for making your own regiment. Id buy that immediately. Kinda like what they did with the eldar craftworlds thing ages ago.
On topic of rough riders and Imperial Gaurd, I personally always picture the US Cavalry from the Wild West era. I would love to see a shooty rough rider load out with a toughness buff, kinda of like a poor mans Windrider jet bike squad. Col. Custer or how about Captain Teddy R. As special characters? I think it would be a little refreshing to see this than Mongol or Arab with lances retreads. (Which historically were more horse archer too weren't they?)
I also have dragoons (French ones) and Once the new codex is out im gonna modify the rough rider rules for a more shooty mobile unit rather than a close combat unit.
Swastakowey wrote: I agree, my dragoons will be sad if they have no rules...
Also anybody worried about the future of Marbo? I have never seen so many conversions in my life, everybody seems to have one and everybody loves making him and so forth. I hope he remains in the next codex because he is one of those characters everyone goes creative on and it adds to variation.
Lack of variation (anyone else sick of seeing cadian after cadian in one of the most diverse armies in the game?) is a huge killer for me, Im so over seeing cadians (and Death Corps for that matter) everywhere and really wish people would get creative with their guard. So hopefully they have doctrines to really help people branch out a bit more.
Same with the cavalry, I think having horses really emphasizes the variatey of the imperial guard.
In regards to special characters I also hope (unlikely) they release "unamed characters" so you have to give the character a name and background, along with your model version. Just something to add more to variation and so on.
I can hope...
You are sick of seeing DKoK armies? I have only ever seen the models once in my life, and that was when I visited Warhammer World.
Also the plastic Cadians aren't just cadians. They have the standard uniforms and equipment of the Guard, so have some imagination and paint and convert them as another regiment.
I still want to make a giant dirt bike army of Guardsmen for apocalypse. I don't mind if ratlings are cut (Still trash even in range edition) and I want to put a Lord Commissar onto a bike duel wielding plasma pistols while leaping into the air.
BrookM wrote: Chances are Marbo, Straken and Harker will not be in the codex, but rather in Codex: Catachans, or the Catachan 122nd supplement or the like.
Oh well, They should release a supplement "Custom Regiment" style thing, where the book has examples of famous regiments rules (and some characters) and then the rules for making your own regiment. Id buy that immediately. Kinda like what they did with the eldar craftworlds thing ages ago.
Why settle for one book when you can milk it for all that it is worth by.. Oh wait, there are only two regiments out there in GW's eyes.
Swastakowey wrote: I agree, my dragoons will be sad if they have no rules...
Also anybody worried about the future of Marbo? I have never seen so many conversions in my life, everybody seems to have one and everybody loves making him and so forth. I hope he remains in the next codex because he is one of those characters everyone goes creative on and it adds to variation.
Lack of variation (anyone else sick of seeing cadian after cadian in one of the most diverse armies in the game?) is a huge killer for me, Im so over seeing cadians (and Death Corps for that matter) everywhere and really wish people would get creative with their guard. So hopefully they have doctrines to really help people branch out a bit more.
Same with the cavalry, I think having horses really emphasizes the variatey of the imperial guard.
In regards to special characters I also hope (unlikely) they release "unamed characters" so you have to give the character a name and background, along with your model version. Just something to add more to variation and so on.
I can hope...
You are sick of seeing DKoK armies? I have only ever seen the models once in my life, and that was when I visited Warhammer World.
Also the plastic Cadians aren't just cadians. They have the standard uniforms and equipment of the Guard, so have some imagination and paint and convert them as another regiment.
There is no standard for the Guard, Each world is different.
BrookM wrote: Chances are Marbo, Straken and Harker will not be in the codex, but rather in Codex: Catachans, or the Catachan 122nd supplement or the like.
Oh well, They should release a supplement "Custom Regiment" style thing, where the book has examples of famous regiments rules (and some characters) and then the rules for making your own regiment. Id buy that immediately. Kinda like what they did with the eldar craftworlds thing ages ago.
Why settle for one book when you can milk it for all that it is worth by.. Oh wait, there are only two regiments out there in GW's eyes.
thats exactly how I feel, Thats why I look at the 2nd or third edition codex for imperial guard where they have 2 whole pages with row after row of different guardsmen (like tonnes) and even had converted ones in the picture section. But those days are gone...
RT Guard all looked the same though. The 'throw a dart at a pile of Osprey books' diversity of regiments came up in 2nd edition.
I think we're less likely than ever to see a 'custom character/regiment creator' at this point.
I'm planning some IG at the moment, probably no more than 1,000 pts, but I'll be using almost no GW parts unless some new kits blow me away. Victoria miniatures, maxmini, blightwheel and puppets war will cover most of what I want to do quite nicely.
plastictrees wrote: RT Guard all looked the same though. The 'throw a dart at a pile of Osprey books' diversity of regiments came up in 2nd edition.
I think we're less likely than ever to see a 'custom character/regiment creator' at this point.
I'm planning some IG at the moment, probably no more than 1,000 pts, but I'll be using almost no GW parts unless some new kits blow me away. Victoria miniatures, maxmini, blightwheel and puppets war will cover most of what I want to do quite nicely.
Awesome thats what I like too hear! If you love old style looking men perry miniatures does great plastics. I loved the detail put into those models. My army uses vox casters and plasma guns from GW only.
I cant find a picture of that codex section with the diversity. But its something I miss, along with doctrines.
There is no standard for the Guard, Each world is different.
True but there are standard equipment templates. The M36 lasgun and Guard flak armoured are manufactured throughout the Imperium on tens of thousands of Imperial worlds and form the basic equipment for the majority of IG regiments. In practice this tends to mean that many regiments look the same, which is handy for GW as it means that they can make a 'one size fits all' IG kit.
Personally I won't miss Rough Riders, they have never fitted in the setting and they have never been all that good on the table. I still don;t see whats wrong with Ratlings given how cheap they are.
There is no standard for the Guard, Each world is different.
True but there are standard equipment templates. The M36 lasgun and Guard flak armoured are manufactured throughout the Imperium on tens of thousands of Imperial worlds and form the basic equipment for the majority of IG regiments. In practice this tends to mean that many regiments look the same, which is handy for GW as it means that they can make a 'one size fits all' IG kit.
Personally I won't miss Rough Riders, they have never fitted in the setting and they have never been all that good on the table. I still don;t see whats wrong with Ratlings given how cheap they are.
Many may have the cadian uniform but not most. In my opinion most guardsmen probably dont wear armour anyway.
And rough riders add to diversity, allow you to create more themes and so forth but they arent neccissary. But they are a source of awesome conversions so I think they should stay.
Its all down to opinion but I see nothing wrong with GW bringing back diversity and so forth, fluffy or not.
They simply can't. In 2nd ed they released 5 distinct metal infantry regiments with about 70-80% of the available equipment options for each, there is no way that they can do the same with plastic kits. The Ig should be highly diverse, it is after all, but I think that in reality the best way to represent this is to allow them a great deal of flexiability in army list selection and equipment options.
A greatcoat/formal IG kit would be welcome but I judge it to be highly unlikely. 3rd party manufacturers and Forgeworld will simply have to take up the slack, like they have been doing.
Its all down to opinion but I see nothing wrong with GW bringing back diversity and so forth, fluffy or not.
They simply can't. In 2nd ed they released 5 distinct metal infantry regiments with about 70-80% of the available equipment options for each, there is no way that they can do the same with plastic kits.
A greatcoat/formal IG kit would be welcome but I judge it to be highly unlikely. 3rd party manufacturers and Forgeworld will simply have to take up the slack, like they have been doing.
Not just in models, what I meant earlier was an emphasis on diversity, so regimental rules and so forth, to try encourage people to make their guardsmen unique. But they dont do that, its all cadian all the time (mostly anyways), so if they made rules and customizable bits and bobs in the codex then people might start converting more (a simple head swap looks great for example). Its rules I am more after rather than models.
Edit for new text from the above...
"The Ig should be highly diverse, it is after all, but I think that in reality the best way to represent this is to allow them a great deal of flexiability in army list selection and equipment options."
I suspect that doctrines will make a reappearance in the new dex but it probably will be only minor variations. I don't think that my axe wielding techno barbarians will ever see a 40k table again :(
One thing that I really (really) want from the new codex is the option to give squad Sgts lasguns again........
I suspect that doctrines will make a reappearance in the new dex but it probably will be only minor variations. I don't think that my axe wielding techno barbarians will ever see a 40k table again :(
One thing that I really (really) want from the new codex is the option to give squad Sgts lasguns again........
Thats something a minor doctrine rule could fix, imagine doctrines for feral worlds and so forth, It may increase GW fantasy sales...
My praetorians for example will fight strictly in a tight 2 rank gunline. Last edition I could get a bonus for doing that, now all I get are more casualties haha. Its just little rules like close order drill that can make a guard army look so different on the feild and its something I long for. (although I doubt many people will use close order drill but still)
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yes, I can see Rough Riders getting removed from the Guard completely. That means the legacy of the Rough Riders will rest with the only remaining in-print Rough Rider rules, written by yours truly for Only War (naturally!).
In that case, GG. I hope you made them awesome and badass !
He did. I'm GMing for a squad that rides giant dog-badgers into battle.
I'm not sold on "these entries are going away", honestly. I mean, Tyranids lost what, Mycetic Spores and a couple of special characters? That does suck, but as I understand it the Spore got dropped to keep third-party people from filling in the gratuitous lack of model, and the special characters get shuffled around anyway, don't they? For that matter, is it even a rumor, or is it just people getting nervous in this thread?
And I know it'd be incredibly niche and something nobody really asked for, but I'd be kinda excited to have Vets be able to assault out of transports. I tend to strap mine with meltabombs and point them at the closest giant bug in any case, that'd be a nice little bonus. It wouldn't make up for losing the extra special weapon, but oh well. They'll still have a place in my lists if that's all that happened.
Swastakowey wrote: I agree, my dragoons will be sad if they have no rules...
Also anybody worried about the future of Marbo? I have never seen so many conversions in my life, everybody seems to have one and everybody loves making him and so forth. I hope he remains in the next codex because he is one of those characters everyone goes creative on and it adds to variation.
Lack of variation (anyone else sick of seeing cadian after cadian in one of the most diverse armies in the game?) is a huge killer for me, Im so over seeing cadians (and Death Corps for that matter) everywhere and really wish people would get creative with their guard. So hopefully they have doctrines to really help people branch out a bit more.
Same with the cavalry, I think having horses really emphasizes the variatey of the imperial guard.
In regards to special characters I also hope (unlikely) they release "unamed characters" so you have to give the character a name and background, along with your model version. Just something to add more to variation and so on.
I can hope...
You are sick of seeing DKoK armies? I have only ever seen the models once in my life, and that was when I visited Warhammer World.
Also the plastic Cadians aren't just cadians. They have the standard uniforms and equipment of the Guard, so have some imagination and paint and convert them as another regiment.
There is no standard for the Guard, Each world is different.
Swastakowey wrote: I agree, my dragoons will be sad if they have no rules...
Also anybody worried about the future of Marbo? I have never seen so many conversions in my life, everybody seems to have one and everybody loves making him and so forth. I hope he remains in the next codex because he is one of those characters everyone goes creative on and it adds to variation.
Lack of variation (anyone else sick of seeing cadian after cadian in one of the most diverse armies in the game?) is a huge killer for me, Im so over seeing cadians (and Death Corps for that matter) everywhere and really wish people would get creative with their guard. So hopefully they have doctrines to really help people branch out a bit more.
Same with the cavalry, I think having horses really emphasizes the variatey of the imperial guard.
In regards to special characters I also hope (unlikely) they release "unamed characters" so you have to give the character a name and background, along with your model version. Just something to add more to variation and so on.
I can hope...
You are sick of seeing DKoK armies? I have only ever seen the models once in my life, and that was when I visited Warhammer World.
Also the plastic Cadians aren't just cadians. They have the standard uniforms and equipment of the Guard, so have some imagination and paint and convert them as another regiment.
There is no standard for the Guard, Each world is different.
streetsamurai wrote: I think that the problems are also the player. It's really easy to come with an unique looking regiment, yet few persons do it.
True but there is no real motivation to do it. Also when people say Imperial guard most people think "cadians". And i can see why, because its all GW promotes and so on. There are kids who ask what faction Im playing when I use my guard and I have to take like 10 minutes expolaining why they are guard and not some illegal models or race they have never seen. I think it has a lot to do with Cadians being the "poster boys" I guess... but it seems the future of the guard is all cadian... :( with a few Catachans sprinkled in.
It will be cool to get this codex. I been eyeing the Vostroyans for a long time. Although, i will have to take a power tool to the hat. The rest of the mini i like. I do like the the looks of the Cadians, too. The rough rider minis needed to be dropped years ago. Not well done and...well...this is not the forum.
Well that's the problem with the whole doctrine thing, as well as the variety of regiments.
GW almost outright forbids conversions at this point. They still allow conversions to a degree, but they'll only showcase 100% GW parts, which leaves you with half fantasy empire IG, space marine scout kitbash IG, Tau kitbash IG, and... that's about it.
I have a feeling for us to see any chance on a return of doctrines and the "limitless types of regiments" being represented in rules, GW would have to relax it's stance on 3rd party bits. Many of the most iconic regiments can not be made any other way, and as we saw with the chapterhouse ordeal, GW would rather pull it's own teeth out than allow bitz companies to market conversion parts.
As much as I hate to say it, I would almost bet money that the next codex will focus even more heavily on Cadians (and maybe Catachans) than the last one. There will undoubtedly be mentions to the ranges covered by Forgeworld as well, but that will be about it.
If they allow doctrines back in, people would be expected to represent their "doctrines" through conversions. Even simple ones like allowing your regiment to take camo cloaks standard (to represent Tanith) or allowing all guardsmen to swap out las rifles for CCW/Pistol would require massive amounts of conversions that GW kits just don't provide. And rather than release bits kits or add the necessary parts, GW will probably just stay with what they already make, so that 3rd party companies can't get increased business. After all, if they don't make a camo cloak part, that money is just going to a "competitor" that can make the bit instead.
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), that has a plastic Commissar, Priest, Engineseer, Primaris Psyker and the other three.
