Not sure,... Might have to wait for the MYTH expansion KS for that,.... The message board exploded mostly about card sleeves for the completionists.
The MegaCon guys said it was unlikely unless they had many many more total backers to make the small print run feasible.
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PsychoticStorm wrote: Everybody complains is not an excuse really, one must evaluate which complains are valid and which are not.
It's all just opinion,.... One person might totally agree with you,.... The next might think you're nuts.
Doors SG was Meh,.... I think the problem with the add on's is that they are too early,........
Let's say that by the time it's all said and done, that you got 6 mission packs for free,... And had two that were available as add ons????
That feels a whole lot different,.... It would give a lot of free stuff,.... But still get the completionists with the add ons.
(I have no info that the split will be this way,... But they have indicated that future stretches will also give free mission packs as well,... So we will have to see)
With MYTH the bulk of the Add ons came in the last two weeks,... And that feels a lot different than having them up on day one.
Incidentally the "Stupid Dog" is a running joke dating back to Myth, and is a nice nod to their community and long term fans. Harmless and well meaning.
Oh, sorry if it came off as harsh. Honestly. I understand completely about the dog. But for someone on the outside of their "nod", it seems poorly executed and doesn't engage me. I also get the Myth figures. Make money where you can.
But they've exhausted that pool. Now they have to reach beyong that pool. I want the game for the cool figures. But it's not at a point where I "have to have it." And I'm not hearing enough good things to want the TT rules either.
Robocop is a great step, but with all the dismal SGs after it, from an outside perspective, it's not making my money want to migrate to their wallets. I still have 16 level 1 secfor tokens in the two base boxes. Give me some miniatures. If they supposedly threw loads of miniatures at Myth, they should take notice that the "loads" of miniatures would probably work here too.
I think we can definitely expect more OPFOR figures. I finally watched the intro video on the main page and I noticed that there seems to be artwork for what looks like a level 4 Security trooper. I imagine then that they've got more guys planned than just the basic security dudes.
they confirmed that SecFor4 minis are in upcoming goals,.... their ads are still not up,..... at this point the MYTH and MERCS faithfuls are in,..... they need to drive traffic to the site.
They did this really well with MYTH,... and like that campaign, they have planned tie ins with Adepticon and PaxEast, ans I'm sure some other link ups with sites and youtubers,....
but right now,..it is getting stagnant,...It's hardly budged since the little jump after the Robocop goal add.........I would have thought that it would have gotten to that goal by now.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I can live with the dog, who is really irrelevant, could be at least posed more reasonable/ had better equipment setup, we all have our pet vanities, they want their dog immortalized as a miniature (twice) so be it.
I feel they have exhausted their hardcore supporters. 896 Agent level and 560 OPFOR, along with 183 hardcore but Myth only pledgers.
The fact new people joining in show a steady decline and the flexible streachgoal show it has failed to reach the critical point of a good offer, to attract new people in.
Honestly, I'm not super excited with the deal as it is, and I'm one of the "on the fence guys" rather than a hardcore pledger, but I am in right now. I've got $120 and will let it ride until the end, when I either pull my pledge or add on the expansions and extras. The thing is, I'm really not one of those people who micromanages my pledge on a daily basis, adding $10 here and there for the add-ons. I don't have the time or inclination for that kind of bs, so it's really up to how it ends up on the last day(s). I'm sure there are others like me that liked the Myth deal who are in now on a more speculative than hardcore basis...
PsychoticStorm wrote: Everybody complains is not an excuse really, one must evaluate which complains are valid and which are not.
It's all just opinion,.... One person might totally agree with you,.... The next might think you're nuts.
It is true, but, if I complain that a doughnut has no corners and it is difficult for me to choose were to start biting it, people can freely ignore me, if I complain that an extra doughnut costs more than a box of five, I may have a serious point.
yamato wrote:
Doors SG was Meh,.... I think the problem with the add on's is that they are too early,........
Let's say that by the time it's all said and done, that you got 6 mission packs for free,... And had two that were available as add ons????
That feels a whole lot different,.... It would give a lot of free stuff,.... But still get the completionists with the add ons.
(I have no info that the split will be this way,... But they have indicated that future stretches will also give free mission packs as well,... So we will have to see)
With MYTH the bulk of the Add ons came in the last two weeks,... And that feels a lot different than having them up on day one.
Doors Streachgoal was not only meh, it wasted the opportunity to make them plastic and upgrade the product value.
I get what you say about the add ons and expansion packs, the timing may have been unfortunate, or they might even thought they will get away with charging them all the way with the initial rush (I am not entirely sure the 400k free expansion pack was 100% intended or a reaction), I do not know, the fact is they failed to make the basic pledge and the advanced pledge a good or irresistible offer with the initial push and the numbers show it, I am amazed that with a fine streachgoal like CPP 1 the movement has been minimal for half a day, I will not proclaim doom, that would be silly, but the stagnation is evident and its up to them to make the ball go again and they really must consider it, the 400k streachgoal is interesting, BUT, its still 112k away, they must do something to attract new blood and this can only happen by making the basic pledge attractive enough.
Azazelx wrote:
PsychoticStorm wrote: I can live with the dog, who is really irrelevant, could be at least posed more reasonable/ had better equipment setup, we all have our pet vanities, they want their dog immortalized as a miniature (twice) so be it.
I feel they have exhausted their hardcore supporters. 896 Agent level and 560 OPFOR, along with 183 hardcore but Myth only pledgers.
The fact new people joining in show a steady decline and the flexible streachgoal show it has failed to reach the critical point of a good offer, to attract new people in.
Honestly, I'm not super excited with the deal as it is, and I'm one of the "on the fence guys" rather than a hardcore pledger, but I am in right now. I've got $120 and will let it ride until the end, when I either pull my pledge or add on the expansions and extras. The thing is, I'm really not one of those people who micromanages my pledge on a daily basis, adding $10 here and there for the add-ons. I don't have the time or inclination for that kind of bs, so it's really up to how it ends up on the last day(s). I'm sure there are others like me that liked the Myth deal who are in now on a more speculative than hardcore basis...
I will have to agree, the basic pledge needs more to be attractive, my other concern is that if the case will be the same with what is reported with Myth, the basic boardgame once released will look eh, I seriously hope they will pass the kickstarter funds to upgrade the basic product.
That of course being the other aspect that adds a slight amount to the "pull my pledge" potential. At least down to $1 and a potential pledge manage later down the line. When are we supposed to get our stuff again? June, wasn't it? Or July?
PsychoticStorm, I feel like your railing against the add-on prices continues to ignore the point that those boxes are worth more than the sum of their parts in a straight comparison to the base-game boxes, because they come with enough of a whole faction of the table-top game to play that.
I'm not saying you're wrong to want some better stretch-goals, etc... but for some context, I just spent $50 to get a USCR starter shipped from an online (thus discounted) retailer. The box has six models, six cards, and some dice. :-p
For $25 you're getting board-game components, two extra minis for the board game, and that same value of table-top viable minis.
That is probably something they've taken into account. Each sold $25 add-on, is a $50+ sale they can never get from someone who goes on to then play the table-top game.
Azazelx wrote: That of course being the other aspect that adds a slight amount to the "pull my pledge" potential. At least down to $1 and a potential pledge manage later down the line. When are we supposed to get our stuff again? June, wasn't it? Or July?
they have said that one of the biggest headaches in the entire campaign of MYTH was running the PM. They have said already that they are going to outsource it for Recon (but no deal done yet). That said; I would not count on the ability to add additional funds after the KS close or upgrade pledges, etc.
They could end up going with a simple one that just lets you chose items for your initial overfunding through KS, but may not let you add anything else.
yamato wrote: Just a note about the pledge manager stuff:
they have said that one of the biggest headaches in the entire campaign of MYTH was running the PM. They have said already that they are going to outsource it for Recon (but no deal done yet). That said; I would not count on the ability to add additional funds after the KS close or upgrade pledges, etc.
They could end up going with a simple one that just lets you chose items for your initial overfunding through KS, but may not let you add anything else.
We may not know that until closer to the end.
I would be honestly shocked if they did that. Not allowing people to add more funds seems like it simplifies things, until you get the emails about "oh, I miscalculated my pledge, I'm short $3" and so on. Besides that, people are now acclimated to the idea that a pledge manager allows new selections: defying expectations like that, especially on a campaign that has so many options, is (again) just changing around the nature of the headache, not eliminating it.
Besides, money gathered through a pledge manager avoids Amazon and KS fees (although, of course, is still subject to the fees for paypal).
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: PsychoticStorm, I feel like your railing against the add-on prices continues to ignore the point that those boxes are worth more than the sum of their parts in a straight comparison to the base-game boxes, because they come with enough of a whole faction of the table-top game to play that.
I'm not saying you're wrong to want some better stretch-goals, etc... but for some context, I just spent $50 to get a USCR starter shipped from an online (thus discounted) retailer. The box has six models, six cards, and some dice. :-p
For $25 you're getting board-game components, two extra minis for the board game, and that same value of table-top viable minis.
That is probably something they've taken into account. Each sold $25 add-on, is a $50+ sale they can never get from someone who goes on to then play the table-top game.
NewTruth,
I completely understand what you're saying. However, from someone who doesn't play the TT game, it doesn't present the same value. Compared -solely- to the $60 boxed game, the $25 add-on expansions don't appear to contain the same value. Now, if they hadn't tapped out their Mercs market already, I think people who want those figures in plastic are completely delighted, and rightfully so. But to everyone who isn't already invested in the TT game, it is a head scratcher. Especially at the choice of figures that they included in the base games and the expansion packs. Not having played the TT game, I don't know what each archtype does, but wonder why each team doesn't have the same ones. So, trying to road map everything, it is a bit of a head scratcher.
I'm waiting on them to pump up the SecFor, get some more "bosses" in there, before they can lure me in. I think the extra civilians in the expansions are great, and what makes them great. But we're talking 7 figures for $25 vs 20(+) figures for $60 from a non-TT perspective, so a bit of a headscratcher. And, from looking at everything so far, it does not appear that you get the one pager for solo play with either the expansion or in the one pagers add-on. So, a little better exposition on their part or clarity on the KS page would be most helpful.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: PsychoticStorm, I feel like your railing against the add-on prices continues to ignore the point that those boxes are worth more than the sum of their parts in a straight comparison to the base-game boxes, because they come with enough of a whole faction of the table-top game to play that.
I'm not saying you're wrong to want some better stretch-goals, etc... but for some context, I just spent $50 to get a USCR starter shipped from an online (thus discounted) retailer. The box has six models, six cards, and some dice. :-p
For $25 you're getting board-game components, two extra minis for the board game, and that same value of table-top viable minis.
That is probably something they've taken into account. Each sold $25 add-on, is a $50+ sale they can never get from someone who goes on to then play the table-top game.
NewTruth,
I completely understand what you're saying. However, from someone who doesn't play the TT game, it doesn't present the same value. Compared -solely- to the $60 boxed game, the $25 add-on expansions don't appear to contain the same value. Now, if they hadn't tapped out their Mercs market already, I think people who want those figures in plastic are completely delighted, and rightfully so. But to everyone who isn't already invested in the TT game, it is a head scratcher. Especially at the choice of figures that they included in the base games and the expansion packs. Not having played the TT game, I don't know what each archtype does, but wonder why each team doesn't have the same ones. So, trying to road map everything, it is a bit of a head scratcher.
I'm waiting on them to pump up the SecFor, get some more "bosses" in there, before they can lure me in. I think the extra civilians in the expansions are great, and what makes them great. But we're talking 7 figures for $25 vs 20(+) figures for $60 from a non-TT perspective, so a bit of a headscratcher. And, from looking at everything so far, it does not appear that you get the one pager for solo play with either the expansion or in the one pagers add-on. So, a little better exposition on their part or clarity on the KS page would be most helpful.
I'm not saying you're wrong, man... Just pointing out what I imagine their thought process was.
Listen to Paolo Parente trash his Dust critics, and he'll often cite the implicit value in models working in two game systems. He goes about it in a douchy way, but I do see the point.
I can sympathize with your frustration, I just happen to be the niche that is just getting into Mercs table-top in a bigger way, and thus have this Kickstarter doubling as a "Hey, all those purchases you were gonna make for $200-300 just got its price slashed by more than half..." :-p
Yes, I philosophically see what Paolo Parente is saying. But when both of those games are of your own making, it doesn't reach outside of your own playerbase. And also doesn't necessarily mean that your own player base even plays both games. So a self-inflated value doesn't equate to actual market value, no matter how much the makers wish it so.
I really want to grab this, make a go of it. But talking $250+ right now if I want the expansions and TT rules, that will be a hard sell, as it will be me and the kids playing it, not me and friends. So Mercs (the company) really need to up their game here and sell me on what a great value it is with content and incentives. Otherwise, it will be a pass on the KS and later on in the market. Though I really love the Russian suits.
So, I hope they take my plee, really start making the game irresistable, while also rewarding their faithful, which isn't an issue for me, but those items don't hold -any- value from my point of view. So it's a relative balancing act, trying to keep the faithful happy and spending, while making the game attractive to the rest of the miniature world that isn't invested in it yet. It's just not there. I'm not sure of the comparison, but I got a ton more from Shadows of Brimstone, which was doing the same thing with 2 core box games. I'm hoping the game gains some momentum and the content gets better by the end. We've got lots of time, just need Mercs to show some intent to rally this thing, not let it linger at this level til the end.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: PsychoticStorm, I feel like your railing against the add-on prices continues to ignore the point that those boxes are worth more than the sum of their parts in a straight comparison to the base-game boxes, because they come with enough of a whole faction of the table-top game to play that.
I'm not saying you're wrong to want some better stretch-goals, etc... but for some context, I just spent $50 to get a USCR starter shipped from an online (thus discounted) retailer. The box has six models, six cards, and some dice. :-p
For $25 you're getting board-game components, two extra minis for the board game, and that same value of table-top viable minis.
That is probably something they've taken into account. Each sold $25 add-on, is a $50+ sale they can never get from someone who goes on to then play the table-top game.
Every $25 add-on sale they get here from someone who was never going to play the tabletop game is new money in their pocket. Let's also not forget that despite money for shipping, KS cut, etc, this is a direct sale to consumers for that $25. The $50 sale you're touting isn't $50 to them since it goes through distributors and retailers, so their wholesale amount is much, much lower - closer to that $25 in fact.
Azazelx wrote: That of course being the other aspect that adds a slight amount to the "pull my pledge" potential. At least down to $1 and a potential pledge manage later down the line. When are we supposed to get our stuff again? June, wasn't it? Or July?
For MERCS: RECON?
January 2015.
But, you know...
Yeah, I was thinking of the late-modified "Oh, you lot? you live overseas, so we'll ship it a few months later, k?" group of us.
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yamato wrote: Just a note about the pledge manager stuff:
they have said that one of the biggest headaches in the entire campaign of MYTH was running the PM. They have said already that they are going to outsource it for Recon (but no deal done yet). That said; I would not count on the ability to add additional funds after the KS close or upgrade pledges, etc.
They could end up going with a simple one that just lets you chose items for your initial overfunding through KS, but may not let you add anything else.
We may not know that until closer to the end.
We know you're a big fan of them, and want the KS to do gangbusters numbers by encouraging more money now, but that's simply not going to happen. Pledge managers are pretty much there to make it easier for creators to get even more money and allow their customers to spend it.
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Alpharius wrote: Salacious Greed,
Are you saying that you're an 'existing MERCS' player and the current $120 or $200 pledge doesn't offer you anything that you don't already have?
Because as a 'new to the scene MERCS' player, the $120 pledge looks decent to me already, only a few days in...
I think he's looking at it as a "I don't actually play MERCS and am on the fence about becoming one via this Kickstarter. I probably wouldn't have ever started it through normal channels either. So your arbitrary dollar value savings mean little to me, and if it doesn't start looking better, I simply wont be a MERCS player" player.
Are you saying that you're an 'existing MERCS' player and the current $120 or $200 pledge doesn't offer you anything that you don't already have?
Because as a 'new to the scene MERCS' player, the $120 pledge looks decent to me already, only a few days in...
Alph,
No. I'm not into Mercs right now. I like some of the factions (not the EU though. The berets. I hate the beret in real life, and have a history with berets in the Army...) and think most of the models look great, but this isn't a "must own" yet for me, and progressing from the game to the TT probably won't happen. I'm in the Army, and never keep a gaming group for long, and while I've heard of Mercs before this, never once seen it on a TT. So, from a board game perspective, I really like the look of it, but it just feels like they pulled the level 1 SecFor pieces out to be SGs/add-ons, but just aren't packing them back in. And with level 4 SecFor in the rules, not seeing them again makes the game feel unfinished. I'm not saying this is the case, merely my personal feeling, and what is keeping me from taking the plunge.
I believe they are doing right by their own community, and have no issue with that. My response to the Myth crossovers and the Dog are merely my own feelings again. They don't add anything to the Recon experience for me. I'd be happy to pass those on to someone who'd enjoy having them should I back this, as they'll gather dust in the garage with all my 90s era GW figures and Sedition Wars. I'm hoping that this gets the loving that all the Myth backers keep saying is going to happen, but it looks like a longshot, though there is lots of time for retooling of the KS and SGs.
If I get the game, I have the "addictive" behavioral problem of wanting to get the TT rules, because of a need to own things like that, though it would probably be me and my 9 year old trying to blow up each other on the TT.
Please, anyone in this thread. I see the different values for backers, and am not trying to sway anyone away from this at all. I'm enjoying the different discussions and viewpoints in this thread. I really hope that they win me over. I'm just trying to balance "personal" value vs buyers remorse. Sedition Wars really beat me down when it was delivered. I bought 2 sets, one to gift to my brother, so that I'd have someone to play against at holidays and summer visits. I didn't even gift it, I felt so poorly about it. I was very happy with the sets of scenery I got from it though, and glad I got 2 sets of that. I'm actually quite interested in the scenery pieces for this game as well, and really wish we could see shots of those scenery pieces and the drones as well. They have some great models, but great models =\= great value.
Azazelx,
You summed it up far more efficiently than I did. Great insight.
We know you're a big fan of them, and want the KS to do gangbusters numbers by encouraging more money now, but that's simply not going to happen. Pledge managers are pretty much there to make it easier for creators to get even more money and allow their customers to spend it.
not being a "pledge, pledge now" fan boy on this,.... just cautioning a thought of putting $1 in and then buying in after the close. I'm much more into MYTH than this,... but Alpharius asked me to start this thread and keep it up instead of everyone talking about it in the MYTH thread.
I hope that it is easy,... I haven't don many "big" KS pledges,..... I know that you can typically make some changes,... but MYTH enabled you the ability to up your pledge,.... get multilple copies of pledges with stretch goals,.. and allowed you to do several rounds of additions,...... I'm just not sure that this one will be as flexible. I thought it was important to share that they would be doing things differently with this,...... not trying to drive pledges with that.
I'm with Alpharius: I don't micro manage my pledge. I put in and then adjust it on the last day.
not being a "pledge, pledge now" fan boy on this,.... just cautioning a thought of putting $1 in and then buying in after the close. I'm much more into MYTH than this,... but Alpharius asked me to start this thread and keep it up instead of everyone talking about it in the MYTH thread.
I hope that it is easy,... I haven't don many "big" KS pledges,..... I know that you can typically make some changes,... but MYTH enabled you the ability to up your pledge,.... get multilple copies of pledges with stretch goals,.. and allowed you to do several rounds of additions,...... I'm just not sure that this one will be as flexible. I thought it was important to share that they would be doing things differently with this,...... not trying to drive pledges with that.
I'm with Alpharius: I don't micro manage my pledge. I put in and then adjust it on the last day.
That was me, not Alph.
But it's typical and completely normal for people to up their pledges and add more copies via PMs. These guys even allowed latecomers to come on board via their PM last time, so I'd expect similar, since the whole thing is a fundraising exercise.
If Recon becomes known as "the game were you can get cheaper miniatures for Mercs" then it has failed, I would rather hear a good review next year from the dice tower than a "why did they even bother review".
The above been said, I did touch the fact that it can tap on two markets and to be frank most Merc hardcore base has most of the miniatures offered since they are not resculpts updated to better quality miniatures for the most part.
I do not rail against add on prices, I am strongly commenting on the streachgoal money amounts required, one would expect that for the same money the game needed to be founded a 1/4th of a single box, 1/8th of the funding total would come as free, of course one would expect more than 2 sculpts in 6 free minis for a streachgoal that was 70k when the funding was just 50.
I am also strongly criticizing they fact they failed to capitalize the first 250k and make the basic pledge irresistible, securing a steady supply of new backers, I also strongly expressed my amazement that they did not use the money from Myth to make the core Myth box more appealing, for me the core of the kickstarter is to not only fund the product, but also to pass the savings into making the core product better.
CCC Gunner,... Pretty sure this is a female figure:
Wow. First close-up I've really seen of their figures. That's really not a very good model. Well, it's mostly decent, but the thighs are awful, particularly with the huge armoured lower legs. They look like tights rather than any kind of practical combat pants.
As to the two models shown in the latest update, I like the leader. He looks like a muscular dude wearing nanite armor. The gunner on the other hand. Is she bolemic, underfed, or a super model for giant boots in her off time? She should be proportional to the leader pretty much. Not anorexic with the same foot armor. But I like the models. Minus her collagen (sp?) injected lips. But I really like the models in all the sets so far, except the EU. Nobody really goes to combat in berets. Cowboy hats, yes, I can let that slide. But not berets.
Yes, I have to agree they've really squandered the stretch goals. There are no enticements to drag new people in here to fling their money at the computer screen. But we have 3 weeks for them to figure this out.
rabidaskal wrote: I quite like the berets myself, and am planning my EU force to pull double time as PanO fusiliers in Infinity the Blue berets make them perfect.
I was thinking the same thing!
There's a lot of 'cross compatibility' potential between MERCS and INFINITY...
I'm really not seeing the problems with the minis, other than the undetailed scanner. They look perfectly fine. I don't think the gunner is any skinnier than the Waza Spy or the Kemvar Shock Trooper. She just has bulkier armor. Plus, I don't think she's supposed to be wearing baggy pants like the others. She looks to be wearing a body suit like the Spy and Shock Trooper. not sure why, but she is.
Barzam wrote: I'm really not seeing the problems with the minis, other than the undetailed scanner. They look perfectly fine. I don't think the gunner is any skinnier than the Waza Spy or the Kemvar Shock Trooper. She just has bulkier armor. Plus, I don't think she's supposed to be wearing baggy pants like the others. She looks to be wearing a body suit like the Spy and Shock Trooper. not sure why, but she is.
Seconded. I keep seeing the complaints about legs and I'm kind of confused. The new gunner is a bit off, but i feel it's more the pose than the details, her shins don't match at a natural angle to the thighs, but the detail I'm more than fine with (except that scanner, hope that's WIP)
Then again, I've always been a fan of the CCC models. Many of the other factions are hit and miss (honestly, a lot of miss) but I've been tempted as hell by the yellow jackets since the leader and heavy first hit the market some years back and it's only the high price coupled with horrendously bad movement that has kept me from purchasing (hate the cards-to-move, HATE it). So now we're getting cheaper models AND the movement is a non-issue, and while few and far between the stretch goals are looking pretty good to me, I love civilians and the robocop fig. Almost assuredly going to go in for the $120 level
The legs are under detailed its as simple as that, they are also not proportional to the overall models bulkiness making them look odd without something to support them, like a servo system.
As it stands they are clothes that are ridiculously smooth and tight as if it was armour, and as armour they are way too under detailed same goes for the leaders upper combat fatigues under the amour plates.
They need to be bulkier to conform the overall bulkier form and they need more detail work to feel like the material they are supposed to be.
Yes, I have to agree they've really squandered the stretch goals. There are no enticements to drag new people in here to fling their money at the computer screen. But we have 3 weeks for them to figure this out.
They cannot realistically "figure this out" without either redesigning the streatchgoals (I remembered the second "t") or it getting pace and reaching 400k faster than it slogs now, from then on its their ball to make it attractive again.
I am not sure redesigning the streachgoals would be a good idea, it would open them to unreasonable demands, the "flexible streatchgoals" could help, but they need to be careful with them too.
They cannot realistically "figure this out" without either redesigning the streatchgoals (I remembered the second "t") or it getting pace and reaching 400k faster than it slogs now, from then on its their ball to make it attractive again.
You keep implying that its not an attractive project and their miniatures suck and their stretch goals are awful and yada yada yada - but almost 2000 people and $300K seem to disagree with you. Do you just have some beef against these guys?
I think it is attractive,.... but at the moment there is not much out there to drive people to the page to look at it. I know that they will have ads in several places (though none have shown up to this point) and there are the convention tie-ins and I'm sure some cross promotion with some other KS projects as well. I think that even though some have some issues with the stretch goals,.... it's not like they totally suck or anything,.... my 2 cents.
Well, the Myth Agent guy has been unlocked. We're getting into some more proper miniature stretches with better spacing between them. I imagine we'll probably be getting some new Stretch Goals fairly soon, too.
rabidaskal wrote: I quite like the berets myself, and am planning my EU force to pull double time as PanO fusiliers in Infinity the Blue berets make them perfect.
I was thinking the same thing!
There's a lot of 'cross compatibility' potential between MERCS and INFINITY...
What's the scale like on these things? I had similar thoughts before, and really liked the Yellowjackets, but they were gigantic next the Infinity figures I compared them to.
If these are a bit smaller than the previous metals there might well be some crossover opportunities...
SavageRobby wrote: You keep implying that its not an attractive project and their miniatures suck and their stretch goals are awful and yada yada yada - but almost 2000 people and $300K seem to disagree with you. Do you just have some beef against these guys?
I don't think anyone here has a beef with them. Everyone has been discussing their thoughts on the models. Some of the guys really like berets on the models, and see their usage in another game system even. I despise berets on models, as I've had to wear one for an entire career, and having the Chief of Staff of the Army take the black beret away from the elite organization it resided with and give it to the entire Army because he believed that the beret would "make the man", instead of the men of that elite organization instilling their discipline and luster onto the beret just added insult to injury. So, admittedly, I have a dim view of berets on models that aren't made to be walking in a parade. But I have no issue or complaint with those guys enjoying it. I do find humor in them saying they're going to paint the berets blue for the EU, as NATO currently wears light blue berets, but that's more military humor.
As to 2k people backing this, that has been part of the discussion as well. Others and myself believe that most of those are current Mercs and Myth players. I don't play either. So, from an outside perspective, this does not hold the same value as all those people have found in it. I believe that Psychotic may feel the same way. Everyone doesn't perceive things the same way. And 2k people, in a wargaming market of 10s of thousands, isn't justification that it has value. I rail against the fact that at the $120 pledge level they will have included 22 level 1 SecFor card tokens. Then they gave us only 6 miniatures in a stretch goal. This stands out as incongruent in my mind. Why only 6, if they thought I would need as many as 11 with just the base game? And they've said that the 2 games were designed to supplement each other, so I've effectively got 10 level 2 and level 3 SecFor, but only 6 level 1? Level 1 will be who you'll see the most of until you elevate the threat level.
I'm not trying to down them, or hold a beef. But I don't see the symmetry of this KS. As they are trying to entice the dollars out of my wallet, I'm simply not feeling it yet. I really hope that they have something up there sleeve, as they've said they do. I don't believe that they thought $300k was their goal. They have repeatedly said they have all the awesome stuff coming up, not yet shown. And they have SGs out to $400k. My saying they have lackluster SGs, or this isn't attractive yet isn't saying that all those backers are stupid or foolish or anything. It's just saying that it isn't a "must purchase NOW" thing. Personally, I think the Merc SGs are good, they are upgrading the "heroes" the players will use. The other stuff has been mostly misses from my perspective. Those who think that they're doing well have backed, and that is good. But we hit a real slow stretch, and the discussion has turned to hoping they energize this project to garner more backers and get the momentum back. They can do this by improving the base game with SecFor figures and more civilians.
All my own opinion and view, and I've enjoyed the crosstalk and other viewpoints expressed in this thread. That's what is great about this forum, we seem to have a very good cross-section of viewpoints and extremes.
Salacious Greed wrote: As to 2k people backing this, that has been part of the discussion as well. Others and myself believe that most of those are current Mercs and Myth players. I don't play either. So, from an outside perspective, this does not hold the same value as all those people have found in it. I believe that Psychotic may feel the same way. Everyone doesn't perceive things the same way. And 2k people, in a wargaming market of 10s of thousands, isn't justification that it has value. I rail against the fact that at the $120 pledge level they will have included 22 level 1 SecFor card tokens. Then they gave us only 6 miniatures in a stretch goal. This stands out as incongruent in my mind. Why only 6, if they thought I would need as many as 11 with just the base game? And they've said that the 2 games were designed to supplement each other, so I've effectively got 10 level 2 and level 3 SecFor, but only 6 level 1? Level 1 will be who you'll see the most of until you elevate the threat level.
I'm not trying to down them, or hold a beef. But I don't see the symmetry of this KS. As they are trying to entice the dollars out of my wallet, I'm simply not feeling it yet. I really hope that they have something up there sleeve, as they've said they do. I don't believe that they thought $300k was their goal. They have repeatedly said they have all the awesome stuff coming up, not yet shown. And they have SGs out to $400k. My saying they have lackluster SGs, or this isn't attractive yet isn't saying that all those backers are stupid or foolish or anything. It's just saying that it isn't a "must purchase NOW" thing. Personally, I think the Merc SGs are good, they are upgrading the "heroes" the players will use. The other stuff has been mostly misses from my perspective. Those who think that they're doing well have backed, and that is good. But we hit a real slow stretch, and the discussion has turned to hoping they energize this project to garner more backers and get the momentum back. They can do this by improving the base game with SecFor figures and more civilians.
All my own opinion and view, and I've enjoyed the crosstalk and other viewpoints expressed in this thread. That's what is great about this forum, we seem to have a very good cross-section of viewpoints and extremes.
Nicely stated.
I've just been reading a lot of negativity towards them, like they're doing something wrong. They seem to be doing alright. If the KS was to end today, I would probably leave my pledge where it is (the $120 mark), because I think there is pretty good value there, and I like the minis and the game concepts (except the dog - I think the dog is really stupid). But I'm also new to MERCS. So from my POV, everything from this point on is totally gravy.
If Recon becomes known as "the game were you can get cheaper miniatures for Mercs" then it has failed, I would rather hear a good review next year from the dice tower than a "why did they even bother review".
God I hope you don't let Tom Vassel be a major factor in your game buying decisions. :-p He's a very nice man, but openly wears some absurd game-design biases on his sleeve which render his opinion near-moot if you happen to also enjoy miniatures games. :-p
Also, as the models are true-scale, I think they look better in real life than garishly blown up. I played a Sedafu vs. Greeks (forgot their faction name) game yesterday at the FLGS and thought everything looked beautiful painted up.
A quick question on the campaign: With the Myth crossovers, you're getting 2 figures right? 1 for Myth, and 1 to play in Recon? Just want to make sure I'm tracking the right stuff.
Also: Has anyone heard, are they going to include the one pager cards for Solo play in the expansion packs, or are they added into the $10 add-on, which only shows the two base Recon boxes one pagers?
Thanks for anybody that knows or is tracking this.
yamato wrote: I agree the girl is way too skinny,.... You'd have to be tougher than that to make it through training to be a MERC
I wouldn't be surprised they over-compensated for the feminine body in response to their KS comments sections which was griping that you can't tell which models are women. For instance, the CCC Incinerator is a woman in their fluff, but as the most heavily armored model no one could "tell" and cried about there being no women in the game.
Pretty sure the Myth crossovers are single models. You would just be able to use them in the different games. The drawings certainly show a lot of crossover in appearance.
They cannot realistically "figure this out" without either redesigning the streatchgoals (I remembered the second "t") or it getting pace and reaching 400k faster than it slogs now, from then on its their ball to make it attractive again.
You keep implying that its not an attractive project and their miniatures suck and their stretch goals are awful and yada yada yada - but almost 2000 people and $300K seem to disagree with you. Do you just have some beef against these guys?
I am not implying I state my thoughts as they are, Salacious Greed did a nice comment on this, it has a long way to reach 2k backers and it just crawled over 300k something that needed 2 days and a "surprise" streatchgoal to happen, don't get me wrong, I want this to succeed pointing out the bad stuff is a good, if thankless, way to help, I met both at GenCon last year great guys and I really love Keiths art, I know it makes me look negative, but I will tell you this, things I do not care about I simply ignore them, I spent energy only in things I like and believe they can do better.
As far as sculpts go, its a golden opportunity for them to go one step above, their Myth sculpts were better quality than these, the plastic molds will be something they will be carrying a long time into the future, I would rather see them spend a pit more effort and make them better, the yellow jackets and most other mercs unarmoured legs look like spandex, the new leaders armour looks like it is on top of a spandex shirt, the art shows combat fatigues, I would rather see them go the extra step and make them Myth level quality.
Salacious Greed wrote:A quick question on the campaign: With the Myth crossovers, you're getting 2 figures right? 1 for Myth, and 1 to play in Recon? Just want to make sure I'm tracking the right stuff.
Also: Has anyone heard, are they going to include the one pager cards for Solo play in the expansion packs, or are they added into the $10 add-on, which only shows the two base Recon boxes one pagers?
Thanks for anybody that knows or is tracking this.
1 model, two set of rules from what I understood, No Idea for the solo play templates, the way it is written it will not even include the extra models stats, but there was some discussion in making them strips to accommodate the different unlocked models and the mix and match they will provide.
If Recon becomes known as "the game were you can get cheaper miniatures for Mercs" then it has failed, I would rather hear a good review next year from the dice tower than a "why did they even bother review".
God I hope you don't let Tom Vassel be a major factor in your game buying decisions. :-p He's a very nice man, but openly wears some absurd game-design biases on his sleeve which render his opinion near-moot if you happen to also enjoy miniatures games. :-p
Also, as the models are true-scale, I think they look better in real life than garishly blown up. I played a Sedafu vs. Greeks (forgot their faction name) game yesterday at the FLGS and thought everything looked beautiful painted up.
ISS they are Mediterraneans.
I like tom's reviews and take them for what they are reviews, not gospels, the fact remains and I could put any other reviewer there, I would rather see the game be good and not mediocre in any form, rules or components and to be fair as I said it is a boardgame and it should stand up by itself as a boardgame, not a cheap way to get figures for Mercs.
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cincydooley wrote: It would be really, really inexpensive for them to include two models so anal-retentive types can keep them in their respective boxes.
Someone should recommend this.
I feel someone should recommend them the novel Idea of using streatchgoals to upgrade the basic boxes offerings.
drazz wrote: Pretty sure the Myth crossovers are single models. You would just be able to use them in the different games. The drawings certainly show a lot of crossover in appearance.
im pretty sure in the comments they said that at least one of them, the crossbow dude, was two figures.
edit. Here you go:
 We converted the mini to have a crossbow. You will get House 4 Priest AND Myth Hunter figures. It isn't one mini used in both games
and regarding the misson packs content that people were wondering about.
 There are just so many places for missions to go. We'll have an update later about them, but each Mission pack has special rules (not unlike Ticket to Ride maps, for lack of a better example) and these special rules apply only to those missions, or unique map tile. nothing major different, but just enough that each Mission pack is different. And each Mission pack asks you to do something different
I am not implying I state my thoughts as they are, Salacious Greed did a nice comment on this, it has a long way to reach 2k backers and it just crawled over 300k something that needed 2 days and a "surprise" streatchgoal to happen, don't get me wrong, I want this to succeed pointing out the bad stuff is a good, if thankless, way to help, I met both at GenCon last year great guys and I really love Keiths art, I know it makes me look negative, but I will tell you this, things I do not care about I simply ignore them, I spent energy only in things I like and believe they can do better.
As far as sculpts go, its a golden opportunity for them to go one step above, their Myth sculpts were better quality than these, the plastic molds will be something they will be carrying a long time into the future, I would rather see them spend a pit more effort and make them better, the yellow jackets and most other mercs unarmoured legs look like spandex, the new leaders armour looks like it is on top of a spandex shirt, the art shows combat fatigues, I would rather see them go the extra step and make them Myth level quality.
As with Salacious Greed, I appreciate your responding and clarifying your viewpoint.
But, looking at it, I now have a question: The list of CCC mercs said that you get the incinerator in the basic 5 CCC, but isn't the picture for the SG for the CCC Heavy a flame thrower? So I am a bit confused. Are we getting the flamethrower or the mini-gun for the Heavy? It shows a guy with a mini-gun in the basic 5, but the list says incinerator. Anyone know?
I'm sort of surprised that they don't seem to be doing much of anything for their campaign right now. Are they just taking a break at the perceived slow middle point of this? I'm hoping it takes off again, but it looks stuck in the doldrums right now...
I know when ever I check the comments all I ever see is non project related drivel from a handful of backers, and very little participation from the MERCS folks. I asked a couple of questions a few days ago, never got an answer I saw so figured addressing questions from backers was not a priority.
The middle figure is the incinerator model, they look similar, but the heavy has a round barrel and ammo feeds.
I was expecting for it to speed up after the 300k barrier, it is faster than before, but I was expecting it to go faster than that, there was a small burst of activity by Mercs, but from their earlier comments they have been swarmed with Myth related PMs (mostly) and try to short hem out.
I liked this comment
Although, I should say we think Recon is pretty compelling and the add-ons and stretches right now are good, so we are willing to be patient to see where it goes.
I wonder if they set the way for more compelling streatchgoals in the near future.
For a second there I thought we on the verge of "Fake Stretch Goal" territory - and you know it is but a short hop, skip and jump to pledges getting pulled from there!
For a second there I thought we on the verge of "Fake Stretch Goal" territory - and you know it is but a short hop, skip and jump to pledges getting pulled from there!
Haha, excellent obfuscation through sarcasm. Well played, Sir, well played.
It is rather disheartening to hear that Mercs thinks the momentum is there. I liked the combat video, but you're going to have to kill the SecFor before they can gang up. The guys with shotguns and black dice are brutal, especially with them all getting 2 attacks apiece. Ready to watch this new video, see what light it sheds on the game.
Looks like the reserve action mechanic is a neat little risk/reward addition to the game,... It sure can help clear out those pesky shot gun wielding guys before they have a chance to cause havoc,...... But you could also be slaughtering poor office workers in the process.
I'd like to see how that works in ramping up the security level.
I think they are part of the mission set up,... And then they more around based on the event cards,..... But what they become (workers, SecFor, etc) it think depends on the security level and a card drawn,... So it is somewhat random.
Oh, forgot to post that latest video:
Automatically Appended Next Post: Finally got the ads going on BGG, and the pledges are moving a bit better today.
Conner is a special joke that was birthed in our Myth campaign.
He constantly interrupted the video shoots with his excitement. As requested by our early backers, Conner has appeared in Recon. He has had a slight upgrade in that he has a double pulse rifle harness in the 40 watt range.
Does it feel like, even though they've put out a couple updates, that Mercs has been totally hands off on this for several days now? No answers in the comments section. No real push to turn up the pace. I wonder if they believe there will be a rush like everyone keeps talking about with Myth? We'll tick over the $330k SG, but that $35k to the next SG will take til the middle of next week at this rate.
I don't play anything where the goofy armed dog will be useful.
I understand vanity stretch goals, but I would have placed it later in the campaign when momentum was screaming along. Filling out factions or filling out the 'office folks' for use int he games would have been more attractive to me. If we end up with an armed dog but the others are not present the game suffers in my opinion. Poor prioritization.
I think people are expecting too much from the end of this the inclusion of the Twilight Knight really pushed Myth on I don't think I would have backed without it and the way it rocketed after her inclusion I think others where in the same boat it was clever not offer her as a paid add on and only with the game so you were either all in or out, that said I'm still happy I did back. I think talk of $1 million plus might be unrealistic more and more miniatures KS aren't getting to that level or what people expected they would at the start.
I'm currently sitting on a $1 place holder pledge for Recon and I've yet to see anything that makes me go yep I'm in, even the homage characters aren't that interesting to me most of them don't fit the feel of a Sci-Fi game, there's a weird mix of modern and Sci-Fi going on here that I'm not entirely convinced by time will tell.
Salacious Greed wrote: Does it feel like, even though they've put out a couple updates, that Mercs has been totally hands off on this for several days now? No answers in the comments section. No real push to turn up the pace. I wonder if they believe there will be a rush like everyone keeps talking about with Myth? We'll tick over the $330k SG, but that $35k to the next SG will take til the middle of next week at this rate.
I brought up the lack of MERC participation coupled with the inane babble which is honestly worse than I have seen in a KS comments section, and basically was chastised.
Obviously all questions are answered either by MERCs or by the handful of MERCs knowledgable backers that inhabit the comments section, regardless of what I thought. And they have published over 20 updates.
Salacious Greed wrote: Does it feel like, even though they've put out a couple updates, that Mercs has been totally hands off on this for several days now? No answers in the comments section. No real push to turn up the pace. I wonder if they believe there will be a rush like everyone keeps talking about with Myth? We'll tick over the $330k SG, but that $35k to the next SG will take til the middle of next week at this rate.
I brought up the lack of MERC participation coupled with the inane babble which is honestly worse than I have seen in a KS comments section, and basically was chastised.
Obviously all questions are answered either by MERCs or by the handful of MERCs knowledgable backers that inhabit the comments section, regardless of what I thought. And they have published over 20 updates.
Yes, I know they have 20+ updates. I'm talking about in the last 3-5 days though. Since they hung Robocop, which gels with the futuristic feel, they've been pretty mum, minus the posting of the combat videos. And while it walks us through how to roll the dice, we don't see any real gameplay. They aren't turning cards to show how you unblip SecFor and Workers, how a real game feels in pacing, how hard it actually is to fight the SecFor. And they don't seem to be bothered that their campaign seems to be mired in the doldrums.
I've also asked if they will be supporting this game post-KS. Like, will you be able to get any of the other mercs for these groups in plastic afterward, and whether there will be cards and Recon play stuff for new figures/factions etc. Really nothing on that right now. I'm hoping we'll hear something of their long term plan for Recon, or whether it is just a vehicle to port Mercs over to plastic.
Yeah, I send the creators a message. I don't post in "general population". It is too full of the psycophants and hard cases. Nothing really gets pulled out of there.
The project has a good chance to start getting some momentum after it hits 400k and gets that free expansion.
That been said I was expecting it to move through both streatchgoals (315k and 330k) faster than it does now (which is a slow and agonizing grind).
It i s an error to allow the fans to get the initiative in keeping the community, I am assuming the Myth distribution didn't go that well and they need more hands in handling the issues of broken models, missing packs ectr, that eats up their time for Recon.
Yeah, I send the creators a message. I don't post in "general population". It is too full of the psycophants and hard cases. Nothing really gets pulled out of there.
I think the madness on the comments section may be part of why they haven't responded much there,..... There's too much BS going on there,... And just searching through to find questions to answer must be nuts.
It sounds like they are also pretty busy working on the new Myth updated rules that they plan to ship in the second wave, not to mention new game play videos for both MYTH and Recon,..... No rest for the weary!
I'm all for gameplay video. I just hope they throw themselves back into this, as they're neck deep in this KS.
If they aren't going to flesh the starting 4 factions out to 10 Mercs each, I hope they've got the USCR queued up next, as I'd love to see them in plastic. Well, minus door kicking guy. Please rescuplt him, miniature sculpting gods, just, please. In the immortal words of an officemate: "I won't send you his first born, but I'll send you his oldest!"
They already said that the USCR Booster (the door kicking guy) is getting a resculpt as part of the KS,... And I agree,... My metal one is still awaiting personal modification of his pose.
I'm hoping that every 100k goal after 400k gets a mission pack! That would get every faction with a mission pack by the $1M mark (with just the two optional add ons from Sefadu and Texico),...... I can dream
yamato wrote: They already said that the USCR Booster (the door kicking guy) is getting a resculpt as part of the KS,... And I agree,... My metal one is still awaiting personal modification of his pose.
I'm hoping that every 100k goal after 400k gets a mission pack! That would get every faction with a mission pack by the $1M mark (with just the two optional add ons from Sefadu and Texico),...... I can dream
That is assuming it will get to 1M mark which is not a guarantee at the moment, the decline is a steady one and it reflects the product not reaching a deal you can't resist status yet.
Are they hoping for this?
There is no guarantee for that, if nothing else it looks like the graph reversed.
They lost a huge potential with the initial rush and now with the inactivity and the huge unreasonable gaps in the streatchgoals.... they need to put a huge effort in making it work.
The graph looks similar to MYTH, aside from the 'baked in' support at the start!
Someone noted that MYTH took a while to get to be that "Too Good To Resist" deal - and it may take that long here too, plus a little extra to wear away the "We Are Big Players" assumption too?
Alpharius wrote: The graph looks similar to MYTH, aside from the 'baked in' support at the start!
Someone noted that MYTH took a while to get to be that "Too Good To Resist" deal - and it may take that long here too, plus a little extra to wear away the "We Are Big Players" assumption too?
"My dad is a pretty big wheel down at the cracker factory." -- Milhouse Van Houten
I think that we will see an increase once they actually try to promote it. Ads on BGG only started yesterday,... And at the smallest rate,.... They did the ramp up process really well with MYTH through the beefing up of the ads, promotions on beasts of War,... BGG contest, and then the cross promotions of zpocalypse and KD. They also did show promotions at Adepticon which started the initial push.
Also, if you look at most of the bigger minis based board game campaigns,... There always seem to be a bunch of fence sitters that wait wait wait and wait some more,... Then jump in at the end when all the goodies are revealed.
I don't think they should be worried,... They have a plan,.... MYTH was not so successful just because it looked cool,.... They worked to get it noticed and promoted.
To get the "fence sitters" this must become a good deal, which clearly now isn't and at this rate it may become too late.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well we have some movement, at least.
Now this is how you should not make a presentation video.
CCC
Today, we talk about Kenny’s favorite faction to hate, the CCC (except for the Gunner…Kenny thinks there should be a whole MegaCon of shotgunners). The video talks about their strengths and weaknesses. They are pretty fun to play, because destroying the structure is liberating.
CCC Yellow-Jackets
Leader (alt-sculpt) Demo Incinerator Breacher Gunner Medic Heavy
Well, we cleared $330k. But their update didn't make me want to hop off the fence. Even the tone of the writing was kind of desultory, as if they're sad at the progress like I am.
The SG updates were....I don't know. Usually I dig when a game upgrades its paper counters to a tangible counter. But the bullets really don't signify the same as a potion bottle, health heart, gold coin or guild token does. And while I'm glad to see the USCR thrown in to be unlocked, I'm going to have to buy it (which is fine), but that's $145k to go before they offer more things to buy, not driving the ability to add to pledges for those already pledged. And are they saying at $450k they design another 2 poses of SecFor 3, or just give us 4 more to add to the 10 in the games? I want more SecFor 1 FFS.
Did the SGs feel sort of random and make you scratch your head in Myth? In the majority of the KS campaigns I follow, the SGs seem to drive the funding. This one doesn't really seem to be. I don't know what to make of it.
And while I applaud them for having a planned twist on how to play the game, with the Infection expansion, I don't feel that the base games and other expansions are filled out yet, so that's another head scratcher for me. I guess they feel by that time that all the tokens in the game are upgraded to figures. I just hope they offer the SecFor 1 guys as optional buys, as I know the game is going to need more than 6, as they put 11 SecFor 1 tokens in each basic game box.
Mar 25 2014
A Little Help From My Friends
8 comments
13 likes
It has been a yo-yo kind of day.
Thankfully we've unlocked the next Assassination Protocol minis. The KemVar Monkeywrench is a very important figure for KemVar. We'll talk more about KemVar in the faction overview video soon. The Monkeywrench helps supplement what tend to be fairly small Soak dice pools. The Waza Demo (I love this mini!) has a very interesting acid grenade. It obviously causes a lot of collateral damage but also assists with the B&C action in a unique way.
Assassination Protocol reinforcements.
We also promised to show the next four stretch goals. This will be the last we show for a while (unless we start unlocking them). We'll start hitting you with videos every other day and mini updates. We are in the valley but that doesn't mean we can't make it beautiful. Enjoy a glimpse of the hopeful future.
Myth backers will receive 4 Infected as part of the Myth pledge. The Infected Mission Pack, which can be used in Recon and Myth, will be an add-on.
Anyway, congrats on two more minis.
I see what you're saying about the overall 'tone', but, I'll admit, I'm excited about this one, and really looking forward to seeing where it goes from here!
They seem to think that they will not bring in more new people and center in making the current pledgers spend more, I cannot explain why else would all the expansion packs to be unlocks would be in additional purchases....
That is not the way to make the core pledge attractive I am afraid.
But maybe that got them a bit over their heads in terms of fulfillment and profit?
I think (hope!) that by $500K and 4 paid add-ons that that will be it, and the rest of the way with add to the $120+ pledge level, thereby making it a 'must buy' and making it a success for both sides!
But maybe that got them a bit over their heads in terms of fulfillment and profit?
I think (hope!) that by $500K and 4 paid add-ons that that will be it, and the rest of the way with add to the $120+ pledge level, thereby making it a 'must buy' and making it a success for both sides!
I hope so! MYTH was slow in the middle too,... I just hope that they start more ads to get people to the page,.... I'm also underwhelmed by these new goals,.... I expected another free mission pack at 500,.... And those bullets,?????? I understand upgraded tokens,... But I'd rather have a wooden cube,... They just look a little to campy for me.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
PsychoticStorm wrote: That's what puzzles me, its not their first and should have the experience from Myth to help their decisions.
I'd bet that they are not making any profit on the MYTH KS before retail sales start to roll in,...... I can't see how,.... Recon has a bunch of unique molds to tool,..... They must be playing it carefully.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ugh,... And no info on just what that Infected Mission pack is until it unlocks @$500k
I guess I'd assume that it is all enemies and new missions,.... No MERCS or employee models?
Yes, that is the door kicking guy. I have no problem with people liking him. But, unless I am mistaken, there are no doors to be kicked in the TT game. So the aesthetic of the mini doesn't leap out to me. They have about 1 mini per faction that has a lot of movement, but door kicking super armored Russian just doesn't do it for me. Now, bullrushing, door exploding super armored Russian would do it for me. Of extra big, Bear helmeted, big claws super armored Russian would have my swiping my CC anywhere they sold him.
But maybe that got them a bit over their heads in terms of fulfillment and profit?
I think (hope!) that by $500K and 4 paid add-ons that that will be it, and the rest of the way with add to the $120+ pledge level, thereby making it a 'must buy' and making it a success for both sides!
Well, from a purely "crowdfunding" perspective, I personally hope that NO KS's walk away with a profit. That isn't what KS is for. YES, I know that a lot of established companies merely front KS with pre-orders for crap they're going to make regardless. Mantic is shamelessly flaunting that, with pretty much every project they do. CMoN is skirting that shameless flaunting. I'm sure that is why we see so many other companies at this point leaping into KS with both feet. It is free money, with relatively reliable forgiveness on the backside for minor delays and somewhat sketchy product. But I don't wish a monetary loss or funding struggles on any well thought out KS campaign. The ones that fail spectacularly bring that on themselves.
So with Recon, I really hope they don't over extend themselves, but they don't have the right mix of basic game components and add-ons to really drive this into that next level. I think if they pump up the Level 1 SecFor and workers in the basic games, do paid add-on packs to flesh out each of the expansion factions up to 8+ Mercs each, that it would kick this into that overdrive. Also, they need less current era special figures, and more futuristic figures to play with their 2194 timeline. Throw in some TT terrain for the game, some level 4 SecFor or Boss miniatures, and lets get this cooking. Make them paid add-ons, but start enhancing the game guys. All these special workers are ~ok~, but I want some enemies in SGs, something that enhances the gameplay. Please, make me spend my money, please.
I'm still hyped up from my pre-workout supplement, so take this as you will. But this is what I want to hear about this game:
So you want to be a Merc? Good. Because your boss wants what the other Corp has, and it's Your job to get it. So suit up and get in to disrupt that placid corporate playground. You'll be confronted by pencil-neck scientists and Ned the comptroller. You know Ned, he's the guy that screws your pay up every two weeks. You're free to smoke him, but not Martha. She always brings cake when it's someone's birthday. Plus, she'd totally have your Merc babies.
But don't fear! There will be armed adversaries. Worthy? Not really. If they had any viable spermatozoa, their kids would have your poster hanging over their bed, right between Duran Duran and Metallica. But, their will be lots of them, so free target practice! Bet your buddies. See who can get the most knife kills, or go all pistols. So, if you're hankering for some up-armored action, Recon is where it's at. Get in, get out. Beers in the fridge, lowest kill total restocks!
Oh. Don't friend Martha on Merc Chat. She's a total groupie.
I feel Stagnation is not only evident, but sadly a reality.
Myth on the other hand while it had a long flat line in the middle it was a steady sustainable line this just falls and falls, its evident that by the time I posted this it has lost 300$....
PsychoticStorm wrote: They seem to somehow fail to grasp how Kickstarter works and flows.
I dunno, they're funding is at a level most projects would kill for. Perhaps you just don't have insight into their costs and goals.
If I had a project on kickstarter, I am sure I would not like to see it stagnate, I am sure I do not know their costs, I do know their goal is to get it as high as they can, evident from the comments of up to 1m$ I also can see from their comments that they feel both surprised and disappointed by the project's funding so far.
They also seem to handle it a bit amateurish
Anyway, congrats on two more minis.
Really, no, really? that's what I would say as a backer if I wanted to slag the project creator, not what the project creator should say about a streatchgoal.
To conclude this post it I will have to say again....
Recon failed to:
Capitalize the initial funding to make the offer irresistible
Correct the above mistake when the funding was still hot
Doesn't seem to make any move towards this direction
Make streatchgoals that will motivate people.
They also seem to
Have lost faith in gaining more backers and try to get more funding from the already committed backers
Be unwilling to modify their streatchgoals from what they have originally planned in order to make it more attractive
Not be motivated enough to have a presence in their own project
Let the fun community muffle anything negative, constructive or not
I really want this project to succeed and not become an example of how to not run one.
which means the middle slowdown/slump will be far worse as most of those vaguely interested will be backing already.
They depend on people spotting the campaign for the first time for new backers
(the 'last minute' backer will still be watching, but aren't going to jump on till they see what things are like in the last couple of days)
It also likely means that it won't spike nearly as much at the end. People like Alph and I got on very late in the game for example, and were Day-1 backers here...
Have lost faith in gaining more backers and try to get more funding from the already committed backers
Be unwilling to modify their streatchgoals from what they have originally planned in order to make it more attractive
These two in particular (plus my Myth being months away still) are more likely to make me pull my pledge. I often go "all in" but I've got no intention of being nickel and dimed for $200 worth of expansions and "additional purchase" add-ons. (a couple of solo play sheets for $10? really?) I'd rather pay a higher base price (like the $200 level, without the dice game) and have much more of that stuff thrown in.
which means the middle slowdown/slump will be far worse as most of those vaguely interested will be backing already.
They depend on people spotting the campaign for the first time for new backers
(the 'last minute' backer will still be watching, but aren't going to jump on till they see what things are like in the last couple of days)
It also likely means that it won't spike nearly as much at the end. People like Alph and I got on very late in the game for example, and were Day-1 backers here...
Exactly!
For MYTH, I actually was a very last day backer - or slightly thereafter!
I think this one here is going to offer a similar 'wake up call' that Mantic just got on DBX, though for slightly different reasons...
That is, unless they make the deal 'irresistible' again - there's still plenty of time for that.
Or they really may be OK with 'only' getting around S600K-$700K!
It would be interesting to see their back end information for this project. Kicktraq tells me that they had a net gain of 11 backers yesterday, I'd be more initerested to know how many they lost and how many they gained...
They set themselves up for some bad times in my opinion. I get that the company made a bundle on Myth, and that the Myth backers seem to feel they should be granted Myth items in this sci fi board game KS.
But by doing so they got Myth folks to come in on 'Myth Stuff' pledge that is not currently worth what it costs. Now they are trying to add dual use items which take away from making the game the KS is supposed to be funding better. And the Myth level still is not that great.
So you get Myth folks bitching about 'we want moar myth!!' and the Recon/Mercs folks bitching 'we want moar Recon!!!', and the company expending resources attempting pacify both.
I know there is some overlap in the fan base, but I doubt there is as much as MERCS (the company) was hoping for. I base that on the fact they had to create a Myth Only level. Overlap fans would be in at the Recon $120 level...
While I could usually afford to let $120 or even $200 ride on a KS, I've really got a pile of things that have to be paid for, ranging from RL concerns to buying actual retail product to the Journey and DeadZone Pledge Managers. There's also a couple of other KS projects I'm watching.
Despite the fact that MYTH (apparently) has no direct competition for my dollars, I'm seeing a lot of much more compelling things to do with that money. Much of which also involves toy spacemans and knights and castles to play with them on. But none of that is in competition with them.
Yeah, I'm going to go with that comment as really having rubbed me the wrong way for some reason. Might be the GW-ish arrogance of it. Maybe if I had my MYTH toys in hand rather than expecting them to send them in 3-4 months if I'm lucky I'd have found it easier to ignore - so instead of a satisfied, happy camper I'm a (more) surly (than usual) bastard?
Well, they said April, I think. Then again, they also mumbled something about absolutely guaranteeing it by June/July, and they lied about Jan delivery (pushed back from Dec, remember?) Split/wave shipping for US and "hold it all back" for filthy foreigners also seems to have become a thing rather suddenly around Jan/Feb as well.
So basically they've burnt my trust in them, and so I expect when they say "April" then I assume it's going to be closer to August.
Yeah, I'm going to go with that comment as really having rubbed me the wrong way for some reason.
I think that comment had all the reasons needed to rub somebody the wrong way distilled in their purest form.
I personally felt the same way.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well......
That doesn't mean we aren't discussing replacing the bullets, just letting you know it isn't as easy as thinking about what people would buy as add one. Just saying we discuss things and will probably replace it today... however, considering the FANTASTIC stretches out there now, I am sure that the bullets aren't a make or break kinda thing. Basically we need some more backers to put out the next straight to add-on Mission Pack.
Emphasis theirs not mine.
I feel they are clueless or caught up in their own sphere of illusion, if the streatchgoals were fantastic with capital letters, then people would flock and the basic pledges would skyrocket.
That doesn't mean we aren't discussing replacing the bullets, just letting you know it isn't as easy as thinking about what people would buy as add one. Just saying we discuss things and will probably replace it today... however, considering the FANTASTIC stretches out there now, I am sure that the bullets aren't a make or break kinda thing. Basically we need some more backers to put out the next straight to add-on Mission Pack.
Emphasis theirs not mine.
I feel they are clueless or caught up in their own sphere of illusion, if the streatchgoals were fantastic with capital letters, then people would flock and the basic pledges would skyrocket.
The listed stretch goals are adding 20 minis to the $120+ pledge level. That is a pretty nice assortment. And it's currently at 66 minis for $120. That's worth it for me.
They could have done things a little better. Opening up the Infected SG earlier could have sparked interest. Showing off a big wow factor boss mini would have also been nice. A lower level "pick one Myth SG for 15" instead of just all for 40 could have drawn in more of the myth crowd while the Myth SGs built up.
CaulynDarr wrote: The listed stretch goals are adding 20 minis to the $120+ pledge level. That is a pretty nice assortment. And it's currently at 66 minis for $120. That's worth it for me.
They could have done things a little better. Opening up the Infected SG earlier could have sparked interest. Showing off a big wow factor boss mini would have also been nice. A lower level "pick one Myth SG for 15" instead of just all for 40 could have drawn in more of the myth crowd while the Myth SGs built up.
This reply isn't to dissuade you that this KS isn't worth it to everyone who has already pledged. It's merely to try and demonstrate why it's not dragging new people in kicking and screaming.
You said there are 66 miniatures right now at the $120 level. 3 won't see much play (The free judge, GCC agent and dog), and you can only play with one team of mercs, so that is another 21 mercs you won't be using. So that leaves 5 out of 7 mercs on the board, and 30 SecFor models and 4 workers in any given game, plus the actually really nice looking Robocop to be a "boss" feeling mini. So, effectively, you can only really use about half of the mini's their giving us.
That's why so many people keep saying they aren't improving the basic game, and the game experience. Infected earlier wouldn't have improved this. Improving the Recon game itself would improve this. They aren't making this irresistable. It seems more of a marketing tool for remaking the Mercs line in plastic. Great cross-pollination idea, but pimp the game up, not just throw all the Merc factions at us. And the fact that they think their current stretch goals are totally awesome is bewildering. Are they not grasping that their SGs aren't setting the miniatures community on fire? They aren't Games Workshop. The Mercs franchise doesn't have the same depth as 40k. I think GW made more than this KS with the release of their mini-titan Knight.
So, I guess we'll wait and see if Rip Van Winkle wakes up from his Recon KS nap and tries to right the ship. Right now, unless they have an equal number of last minute backers, I'm not sure they'll unlock $500k, even with 3 weeks to go.
Their lack of comms hurts them too. The infected stretch goal is a good example. They show it with no real explanation as to what 'infected' are, nor what will be in the add on expansion or if you can use the 4 free minis without purchasing that expansion.
Folks quickly label them 'zombies' which leads to a variety of opinions and speculation, but does not contribute desire for new pledgers to jump on (you ain't gonna shell out $120 in the hopes you get 4 free plastic zombie figures unless you were already gonna shell out $120 for the game).
MERCs comes out with a comment in the comments section that 'infected are not zombies, they are experiments'. Cool. So what exactly does that mean how the heck does it contribute to the game? Does that answer any of the obvious questions I posed above (info which should have been part of the update announcing them)? No.
Does this help fill out the basic game(s) or teams? No.
A lot of the fans are assuming some MAJ Wedemeyer level plan on MERCs part. I just don't see it.
This reply isn't to dissuade you that this KS isn't worth it to everyone who has already pledged. It's merely to try and demonstrate why it's not dragging new people in kicking and screaming.
You said there are 66 miniatures right now at the $120 level. 3 won't see much play (The free judge, GCC agent and dog), and you can only play with one team of mercs, so that is another 21 mercs you won't be using. So that leaves 5 out of 7 mercs on the board, and 30 SecFor models and 4 workers in any given game, plus the actually really nice looking Robocop to be a "boss" feeling mini. So, effectively, you can only really use about half of the mini's their giving us.
That's why so many people keep saying they aren't improving the basic game, and the game experience. Infected earlier wouldn't have improved this. Improving the Recon game itself would improve this. They aren't making this irresistable. It seems more of a marketing tool for remaking the Mercs line in plastic. Great cross-pollination idea, but pimp the game up, not just throw all the Merc factions at us. And the fact that they think their current stretch goals are totally awesome is bewildering. Are they not grasping that their SGs aren't setting the miniatures community on fire? They aren't Games Workshop. The Mercs franchise doesn't have the same depth as 40k. I think GW made more than this KS with the release of their mini-titan Knight.
So, I guess we'll wait and see if Rip Van Winkle wakes up from his Recon KS nap and tries to right the ship. Right now, unless they have an equal number of last minute backers, I'm not sure they'll unlock $500k, even with 3 weeks to go.
At any given time I might be only using some of the minis, but I don't use all of my Warmachine or 40K minis every time I play one of those games either. The additional mercs add re-play-ability. They aren't just different models, they have different abilities and stats.
Anyway, have you read the rules? The game uses blind blip counters like Space Hulk. You don't put out a miniature until blips comes into LOS. You don't need piles of miniatures to play the game. The SecFors and special employees are improving the base game as they're replacing what was originally counters.
Its not a good deal, ok, you do not have to take my word for it, you can see the raw data on how the pledges and backers have stagnated.
Lets see for getting this project at 667% of the original goal the basic pledge gets 25 extra minis, the original goal gives you 41, without argue most of the minis given are things the original box game should have already included, No if I see the original box as they intended it on the self I would never buy it, there is no such thing as card counters in a miniatures boardgame, for the miniatures, they can get away with it for terrain such as doors and furniture, but not for the minis the expectations for it have already been set.
The streatchgoals are at best underwhelming, the first gave us six minis for two poses and it costed more than the foundation of the project and if nothing else they are basic soldiers, who without this goal would be, counters?, in a miniatures boardgame? why not say from the start the foundation was at least 120k? moreover all the big streatchgoals barring one and by big I mean costing equal or more than the founding of the project expect us to pay 25$ to get them, why?
No, I do not find this project giving an irresistible offer, the way I see it it still lacks the basic elements fleshed out, upgrade goals that give it elements it should have already in it (and I do hope when this is finished it has them or it will be head to the river Styx) and I do not mean the extra mercs, but civilians and OPFOR, one expects from a project that has reached more than six times its required level to have already fleshed out the basic game, made it an irresistible offer and now seeking to make the basic product even better and see for expansions, not the thing we see now.
And if you think my opinion is not valid, well the backers and the way the pledge levels go, supports my opinion.
The other thing I find odd is that none of the stretch goals actually enhance the retail games. All the plastic security guards should be replacing counters in the retail version if they expect it to sell well. I don't see a lot of folks shelling out $45-60 bucks to have their 5 man squad of plastics fight a horde of cardboard counters.
Its not a good deal, ok, you do not have to take my word for it, you can see the raw data on how the pledges and backers have stagnated.
Lets see for getting this project at 667% of the original goal the basic pledge gets 25 extra minis, the original goal gives you 41, without argue most of the minis given are things the original box game should have already included, No if I see the original box as they intended it on the self I would never buy it, there is no such thing as card counters in a miniatures boardgame, for the miniatures, they can get away with it for terrain such as doors and furniture, but not for the minis the expectations for it have already been set.
The streatchgoals are at best underwhelming, the first gave us six minis for two poses and it costed more than the foundation of the project and if nothing else they are basic soldiers, who without this goal would be, counters?, in a miniatures boardgame? why not say from the start the foundation was at least 120k? moreover all the big streatchgoals barring one and by big I mean costing equal or more than the founding of the project expect us to pay 25$ to get them, why?
No, I do not find this project giving an irresistible offer, the way I see it it still lacks the basic elements fleshed out, upgrade goals that give it elements it should have already in it (and I do hope when this is finished it has them or it will be head to the river Styx) and I do not mean the extra mercs, but civilians and OPFOR, one expects from a project that has reached more than six times its required level to have already fleshed out the basic game, made it an irresistible offer and now seeking to make the basic product even better and see for expansions, not the thing we see now.
And if you think my opinion is not valid, well the backers and the way the pledge levels go, supports my opinion.
Did the Mercs guys run over your dog or something? It's not a good deal, so skip it. No harm in that.
I only back when the initial value seems fair and concept looks interesting. 20 28mm miniatures plus components in the basic box for $60 seems pretty fair to me. If I saw that on the shelf at the game store I'd buy it. Then again, I really like co-op games like this.
CptJake wrote: The other thing I find odd is that none of the stretch goals actually enhance the retail games. All the plastic security guards should be replacing counters in the retail version if they expect it to sell well. I don't see a lot of folks shelling out $45-60 bucks to have their 5 man squad of plastics fight a horde of cardboard counters.
Agreed. That is the real ball buster. From a box game stand point, neither of these boxes, at $60 or more full retail cost, won't be bought by someone who doesn't want the Mercs figures in plastic. So I can fight 5 mercs against 10 plastic men and some counters with one box.
That is why this truly feels like it is a KS only thing, that this won't have continued support and broadening in the retail market. It is almost purely a vehicle to sell the Mercs line in plastic, only without the TT cards to play them, and with another game you could play with the figures.
CaulynDarr,
As to the replayability, yeah, it has replayability with the exact same figures. But you're looking at this from some other perspective. They gave you 6 SecFor level 1 figures, but there are 11 tokens for them in the game. Why not upgrade the game itself, and replace those 11 tokens with 11 figures? Why did they give us 4 extra level 2 SecFor, and have 4 extra level 3 SecFor lined up in the queue? We already have 10 of those, do I really need 14? But I only have 6 level 1s, who they think I may need as many as 11 in just the basic game.
So, I'm a little Myth-tified (lisp intended) as to what the method to their madness is. From the way they wrote their last update, they themselves don't seem to understand why this isn't selling like hotcakes. They believe that their SGs are ingenious, and that the masses would be lined up to put money in their hands. Mantic had this exact same problem with their DBX KS, and basically had to roll out their last 4 teams with no SGs make their "pre-order" meet the expected value of a KS. You may be a previous Mercs player, so this game holds extra value for you from the Mercs figures themselves. They don't hold any of that value to me, so the game is significantly diminished, since in my eyes, each of those 2 boxes has to stand up to its $60 value on their own, NOT combined. And as I don't know WTF a GCC Judge is or does, that figure is almost as useless as their mini-gun toting fleabag. Robocop was an inspired choice to add to this game, as he fits the aesthetic. But Dwight, Jon McClane and fat cop don't fit the futuristic theme. So the Creators of this KS are sending very random, mixed signals to the miniatures community. And their choices of SGs aren't inspiring more people to get off the fence and back this. That's what this discussion has been about, trying to figure out what they're thinking...
Alpharius wrote: And good luck getting answers from the creators.
They seem depressed, disengaged and somewhat aggressive nowadays...
Perhaps they are menstruating.
One good thing I'll say about Mantic is that when they are running a KS their comms in updates and in the comments section tend to be pretty upbeat even when they are taking a beating. These guys could take a lesson from that.
The Mierce guys are hyper-responsive during and, more importantly, AFTER the campaign ends too.
So yes, the MERCS crew could absolutely improve their communications, both in terms of frequency (in the comments section - though admittedly it is a bit of a mess in there) and 'tone'.
I agree about the tone,..... I'm sure things are a bit hairy there with the uproar about the MYTH RB,... they seem to be scrambling to put together a solution in time for the wave 2 shipment,.......
If the MYTH shipment and response had been very good,... I think Recon would be blazing right now.
Their plate seems very full for a hand full of guys at the moment.
Did the Mercs guys run over your dog or something? It's not a good deal, so skip it. No harm in that.
Because I want this to succeed, so simple, my time is limited and I spend time only in things I genuinely care about, I met both at GenCon last year, great guys, I really want this to succeed for them and I want it to succeed in its own legs and not as a fancy pack to get miniatures for the MERCs v2.
As it is it is not doing well and I point out its flaws both now and the potential if it hits retail later as it is.
One should be worried that my concerns have shifted from the purely aesthetics of the first pages where I say that they could redo the MERC minis who are not the same standard as MYTH minis are since they go plastic, to the concerns about the basic form of the game and how it does seem stuck in stagnation.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
yamato wrote: I agree about the tone,..... I'm sure things are a bit hairy there with the uproar about the MYTH RB,... they seem to be scrambling to put together a solution in time for the wave 2 shipment,.......
If the MYTH shipment and response had been very good,... I think Recon would be blazing right now.
Their plate seems very full for a hand full of guys at the moment.
If only people had raised concerns about the timing and if it could benefit by going later.
Is there a thread here on Dakka talking about the Myth rulebook issue?
If not, can anyone sum up the problem with it? I saw an offhand comment in this thread saying it didn't look professionally edited. Are the rules bad or something?
Salacious Greed wrote: Is there a thread here on Dakka talking about the Myth rulebook issue?
If not, can anyone sum up the problem with it? I saw an offhand comment in this thread saying it didn't look professionally edited. Are the rules bad or something?
There are just some things missing,... And they are working on a replacement and FAQ for wave 2 shipment.
I think they were just too close to their own baby,.... The rules work very well, but there are some ambiguities and omitted things,.... The online resources already do a great job at clearing those up.
A blind play test was needed,... Unfortunately, the RB was one of the first things that they had to finalize. I think they will have learned a lot from this.
Alpharius wrote:And good luck getting answers from the creators.
They seem depressed, disengaged and somewhat aggressive nowadays...
yamato wrote:I agree about the tone,..... I'm sure things are a bit hairy there with the uproar about the MYTH RB,... they seem to be scrambling to put together a solution in time for the wave 2 shipment,.......
If the MYTH shipment and response had been very good,... I think Recon would be blazing right now.
Their plate seems very full for a hand full of guys at the moment.
As time goes on, the idea that they erred by launching this campaign just as they began shipping MYTH becomes more and more like settled wisdom. Just think about it, right now MERCS has to;
-Answer shipping questions for the hundreds of US backers that are waiting/receiving shipments (hopefully all done by now),
-Process missing part/broken part problems,
-Deal with complaints about the rule book,
-Work on re-writing said rule book,
-Negotiate printing of a completely new book to accompany not only second stage shipping, but deal with having to include the book with their retail release/print run.
All of that, on top of running a quarter-million plus Kickstarter Campaign!
Salacious Greed wrote: Is there a thread here on Dakka talking about the Myth rulebook issue?
If not, can anyone sum up the problem with it? I saw an offhand comment in this thread saying it didn't look professionally edited. Are the rules bad or something?
From my perspective, it's a matter of it being, well, basically impenetrable. It's high quality, well printed, but I sat down to read it and by the time I stood up, I had barely a better idea of how the game works then when I started.
From my perspective, it's a matter of it being, well, basically impenetrable. It's high quality, well printed, but I sat down to read it and by the time I stood up, I had barely a better idea of how the game works then when I started.
Basically they tell you how to *do* everything, just not when or why to do everything.
You know how a hero phase works, just no idea when to start or end a hero phase.
You know how to attack, just not when to attack.
You know what a Quest is, but not when or how to use a quest.
If you are an avid RPGer who is used to free-formed RPG systems, it is more intuitive to take the mechanics provided and figure out how to cobble them into a game... If you are not familiar or experienced with that stuff, you literally have no idea how the game starts, how it ends or when to execute the mechanics. While you can figure it out, and there have been added instructions later which put the stuff in order, it is not in the rulebook.
It is a perfect example where the people writing and testing know too much about the rules and are aware of things which are left unsaid. You can't sell a game which takes transfer of 'how to play' like many RPG systems through a learned dark art the way being a Dungeon Master is.
Figures and game materials are top quality. If they re-do the rulebook it may be good. I think the cards don't need reprints, but the card reference probably needs fixing.
Salacious Greed wrote: Is there a thread here on Dakka talking about the Myth rulebook issue?
If not, can anyone sum up the problem with it? I saw an offhand comment in this thread saying it didn't look professionally edited. Are the rules bad or something?
Partly, I think it is a lot of unfortunate terminology. Like having Actions and Reaction and Action-Reactions and Reactions (Combat), where you get 1 action and unlimited reactions, but no Action-Reaction unless specified and no Reaction (Combat), which don't happen in the Action phase, etc.. . .Also Actions and Action-Reactions my trigger X (e.g. Treasure) but not Reactions or Reactions (Combat), again with exceptions of course, etc., etc., It get's silly quickly.
Partly, it's clearly a rulebook written by people who "know" the game. Like somebody who played Monopoly for 20 years writing a rule book for monopoly, but kinda forgetting half the things that are "too obvious" for him to mention. Etc...
So yeah, I think it would've benefited from an "editor", not in the sense of spelling or grammar, but in the sense of somebody how knows how to structure and present complex rules in a rulebook. And from what I read, they are basically writing a new rulebook for the retail-release. Could just be a rumour though.
A blind play test was needed,... Unfortunately, the RB was one of the first things that they had to finalize. I think they will have learned a lot from this.
Unfortunately, look at this campaign, there's more to be learned...
I didn't pledge for Myth. Any Fantasy stuff has to be a little watered down, like Arcadia Quest, to sit the kids down at the table and have the game hold their attention.
I am really interested in Recon for that reason, as the sci-fi armor and guns will have them dragging me to the table to play this for an hour or two. That's why I really hope this takes off.
I wish they would be receptive to being asked to go look at Flying Frog Prod's Shadows of Brimstone KS and game, as they really demonstrated how to run their KS. Where the $200 pledge level here has the ridiculous dice game, the SoBKS equivalent pledge level pretty much doubled the miniatures you got before any SGs or addons. So, with similarly priced basic boardgame boxes, you got 32 minis per box, for a total of 65 with KS excl. We're only getting 41 in Recon, and have to use card tokens to represent enemies in a miniatures board game. These guys need to shake off the funk and get back to this KS.
yamato wrote: I agree about the tone,..... I'm sure things are a bit hairy there with the uproar about the MYTH RB,... they seem to be scrambling to put together a solution in time for the wave 2 shipment,.......
If the MYTH shipment and response had been very good,... I think Recon would be blazing right now.
Their plate seems very full for a hand full of guys at the moment.
Well, as I've said a few times now. Finish (a) before beginning (b). But then, I'm obviously a fething idiot who knows nothing, right?
I didn't pledge for Myth. Any Fantasy stuff has to be a little watered down, like Arcadia Quest, to sit the kids down at the table and have the game hold their attention.
I am really interested in Recon for that reason, as the sci-fi armor and guns will have them dragging me to the table to play this for an hour or two. That's why I really hope this takes off.
I wish they would be receptive to being asked to go look at Flying Frog Prod's Shadows of Brimstone KS and game, as they really demonstrated how to run their KS. Where the $200 pledge level here has the ridiculous dice game, the SoBKS equivalent pledge level pretty much doubled the miniatures you got before any SGs or addons. So, with similarly priced basic boardgame boxes, you got 32 minis per box, for a total of 65 with KS excl. We're only getting 41 in Recon, and have to use card tokens to represent enemies in a miniatures board game. These guys need to shake off the funk and get back to this KS.
The dice game they still haven't showed gameplay video of.....
I gave a lot of thought to this, and think I might have hit upon an idea. With Myth, these guys were going out on a limb with a never before seen property, trying to drum up money to make the game. So they liberally sprinkled lots of cheap to make plastic figures in to draw the masses, and had a runaway success.
However, I think Recon is a subset of their baby, Mercs. The believe it is an established property, and expected the hordes to heed the call of plastic mercs. I really think they believe that they're a pretender to GWs throne, rubbing shoulders with Privateer Press in the gaming market, and so their feelings might be genuinely hurt, as they thought that the first two days were going to be the normal day for this KS.
I'm not putting them down, or anyone who thinks Mercs is a great game, merely stating that this loosely fits their current position and updates, even with the Myth RB debacle. It rings with the "Anyway, enjoy your two figures." from the last update. They don't need to throw hordes of cheap plastic figures at this one, as everyone was supposed to stampede to the drumbeat of plastic Mercs goodness.
What, everyone pays $65 for 5(6?) metal figures per faction right now? So why wouldn't the world want those exact same figures, minus a resculpt or two in plastic?
Please, detractors or supporters, weigh in, what does everyone think? And is there anything we can do to send them a plea to somehow make this more inviting?
I went in expecting version 2 of Myth's campaign, and I don't know what I got instead.
Their comments about not having competition, how much they raised, how close they were to being on time... I think a bit of the success did get to their heads. Who can blame them though? The Myth campaign was a big deal, and there was a lot of serious demand for the game out there.
The game hit the right buttons for a lot of people, especially those of us who are looking for the next big dungeon crawler, or something to fill the void of HeroQuest or Warhammer Quest.....
I doubt I'm alone in thinking that Recon was going to be a crazy deal, with piles of various security forces, 3d scenery, large mechs or vehicles... the works. Just like Myth had done from the very get go.
Having a big pile of add ons from day one certainly didn't help. Neither did having bundles with items nobody was interested in (like dice games).
The Megacon guys were even complaining that very few people picked up the add ons. So what does that tell you? Put up tons of them from the get go?
This still has a lot of potential and I'd love to see it reach that.
Yeah,... It does have potential,.... But right now the sizzle is missing,....
I said before that add ons are cool when they show up in the last week,.... In week one and two,... They seem like they are nickel and diming,.... I understand that their analysis told them that the day one types are the ones to buy add ons,.... It's fostered perception that they are looking for pledges to be upped vs bringing on new blood.
I'm sure that is not their intent,.... They've been great in all of my dealings with them.... I really think they just need to get the word out and it would start rolling,..... If we were hitting a goal every day or two, not many people would care when one of the goals was not so great, because they would be rolling in.
There is a strange lack of big excitement,... I remember almost every stretch goal that they announced in MYTH being a jaw dropping combination of art and value.
Employees and such just look kind of meh,... I love them, but they don't have the excitement of a huge skeleton beast with blade arms,...... That stuff is just hella cool!
I get what you guys are saying. Im a backer and i feel they re confused, who is their primary audience? are they selling a board game to mercs players, a scifi game to mythbackers, or an.intro to the mercs world to brand new players?
Im the third type, and.i feel a bit frustrated at so little info? for the merc xpacs, they didnt even include a nice pic of the minis you get. Texico sounds cool,but no pics, no background blurb to sell me on them, no explanation for the 2 special employees. In other words a real lack of reason to spend + 25. I even went to their site but there were no pics nor fluff their either. As a newcomer to th mercs world i wanna know this stuff
Same with the drone add ons damn they look.cool, i wonder what they do in the game? no idea. the new employee stretch goals have same story, please tell me why these are cool and how they affect gameplay. Its not like fantasy i think where you can just say here have some minotaurs and its kinda cool alredy.
Sorry if.im venting abit, just kinda disappointed with the last update. Will stil back this if only for the crossover potential with infijity and battle systems terrain ks. I just want them to talk about the stuff they're selling to us.
Sorry for terrible spelling, this tablet is horrible
I'm kinda disappointed in this KS too. But then I'm a Myth backer and I'm also disappointed my international shipment got pushed back to godknowswhen -_- Which would probably happen if I backed this as well
It does seem like they aren't putting much effort into their updates. I mean, I'm coming off of a Mantic KS whose updates and pretty much walls of text. Then I get these ones and they're maybe a sentence or two.
One thing I'd like to see them do at the very least is show some pictures of what's coming in the expansion sets. Maybe tell us what sort of board expansion we'd be getting? I mean, I kind of hope at least one of them is a parking garage, or a power station, or something funky like that. Secondly, it'd be nice if they showed us what the figures included will be. Even if it's just art for the non-finalized guys.
One positive I will note, that CCC leader resculpt's scanner actually did receive detail. It's plainly visible in their faction update. So, yay?
Salacious Greed wrote: I gave a lot of thought to this, and think I might have hit upon an idea. With Myth, these guys were going out on a limb with a never before seen property, trying to drum up money to make the game. So they liberally sprinkled lots of cheap to make plastic figures in to draw the masses, and had a runaway success.
I'll add that it's pretty typical for a company to go "all out" for their first KS, then "pull back" for their second. "All out", of course, includes "not making a profit" and creators quickly learn that, yeah, that might not be a good idea the second time. In their second KS, Reaper definitely "pulled back" by charging "actual shipping", which didn't make international customers happy, but let Reaper actually make some money (or rather, let them have a margin of safety!) with the project. Back to MYTH, your first KS may be your last one, generic fantasy is much more popular than a particular science fiction setting, so perhaps that's why MERCS first KS was MYTH, not RECON.
Dwarven Forge is, I think, having similar "second KS" problems. Caverns aren't as popular as general dungeon tiles, and their being more expensive doesn't help. Additionally, DF, like other "second KS", may have also overestimated how much money would come in after the initial post-hype funding. Compare the funding of "first KS" Super Dungeon Explore vs. "second KS" Dwarven Forge and RECON. (SDE is a "first KS" because SPM is running the KS, not CMON.)
Actually its not that bad, -900$ when two of the MERCS level (1,5k$) backers quit, but it goes as it was foretold.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If they do not get a wakeup call from that, I do not know what will happen with this project
Ainokea-No-More Let me start by saying this is not a bash....I believe in MERCS. However.........I am Sorry guys I am dropping my $1500 pledge as well. I am writing to insure everyone I am NOT a campaign troll, and truly selected the $1500 pledge as one I intended to keep... This decision to drop my pledge is partly based on not "feeling" this game as one my group will particularly enjoy. I wanted to love this game as much as I do MYTH but so far I do not.... And..... I have to say after supporting Myth with over $400 pledge and trying to give them another $1500 (at least here) without them answering my several questions both here and on the Myth campaign is frustrating. Just FYI, One question is pertaining to my pledge here and one question from my myth campaign. Without these questions being answered I was unsure about my $1500 pledge and did not want to "deny" someone else interested in the $1500 pledge level there chance. I may come back in for the "myth only" pledge and just jump back in for Myth round 2 here on KS when offered. I wish all the backers here for RECON a huge success. I am sure my $1500 spot will be grabbed quickly... I more than likely will be back at the MYTH pledge level to support MERCS and this campaign........
yeah not sure. I do not want to spook anyone but it concerned me when I was about to drop another $1500+ (with add ons) without answers. I decided to drop early enough to give someone the chance to grab it now. I could have waited to see if MERCS answered my questions but then it would have left little to no time for someone to pick up my $1500 pledge. I still believe in MERCS and thus back in for the Myth pledge level...
It rings what many of us have said and the shaken confidence in it, we want it to succeed, but do not believe it will at the direction it heads.
And as I write that the above comment is invalidated today's total has dropped to - 2,5k....
Their communication is non existent, people are left getting their assumptions alone.... This project needs a great reevaluation and why not a bit of humility and redrawing of stretch goals.
Salacious Greed wrote: I gave a lot of thought to this, and think I might have hit upon an idea. With Myth, these guys were going out on a limb with a never before seen property, trying to drum up money to make the game. So they liberally sprinkled lots of cheap to make plastic figures in to draw the masses, and had a runaway success.
However, I think Recon is a subset of their baby, Mercs. The believe it is an established property, and expected the hordes to heed the call of plastic mercs. I really think they believe that they're a pretender to GWs throne, rubbing shoulders with Privateer Press in the gaming market, and so their feelings might be genuinely hurt, as they thought that the first two days were going to be the normal day for this KS.
Wow. The thing is, and with no insults or disrespect intended, MERCS is a mostly-unknown "nothing" game that almost no-one has played if they've even heard of it - like most other games in the sci-fi and fantasy genres that, basically aren't something by GW or PP.
ced1106 wrote: I'll add that it's pretty typical for a company to go "all out" for their first KS, then "pull back" for their second. "All out", of course, includes "not making a profit" and creators quickly learn that, yeah, that might not be a good idea the second time. In their second KS, Reaper definitely "pulled back" by charging "actual shipping", which didn't make international customers happy, but let Reaper actually make some money (or rather, let them have a margin of safety!) with the project. Back to MYTH, your first KS may be your last one, generic fantasy is much more popular than a particular science fiction setting, so perhaps that's why MERCS first KS was MYTH, not RECON.
Dwarven Forge is, I think, having similar "second KS" problems. Caverns aren't as popular as general dungeon tiles, and their being more expensive doesn't help. Additionally, DF, like other "second KS", may have also overestimated how much money would come in after the initial post-hype funding. Compare the funding of "first KS" Super Dungeon Explore vs. "second KS" Dwarven Forge and RECON. (SDE is a "first KS" because SPM is running the KS, not CMON.)
I'll agree that 2nd KS-itis gives a company much better margin planning and an idea of how to fill a KS out. Dwarven Forge has said that the molds are going to be more expensive for the caverns, hence the higher price. And the current KS trend is to charge actual shipping, no more blanket shipping, free or otherwise anymore. This drastically hurts a lot of KS's now, as they are far far less attractive to overseas backers. I can't bring myself to back anything out of the UK, as most of the miniature KS's from there are both more expensive exchange rate wise from GBP to USD, and the per dollar value ratio per miniature is much higher than US KS's. Mantic harvests far more money by running their KS's in USD.
The other thing I wanted to say in reply to your quote, was that I don't feel that KS isn't a vehicle to provide a profit for a company. A lot of people both here at Dakka and in the KS comments feel that it is ok for a company to stock the till with cash, but KS is to "help make a product". Not line the creators pockets. The line I see the most is "the company should make money for their product!" Yes, that is true. But they should "make money" in the free market, where profit and expenses exist. KS is giving the creator/company free money to physically make their product, taking all the design costs out of it. So now a company only has to pay a fraction to print a complete, ready to ship to store game. I think this cuts the standard 25-35% of retail cost of a game down to 10-25% probably. I don't believe for an instant that any company will actually tell us, as when their product makes it retail, KS has basically doubled their profit. And that is where a lot of people take issue with some KS's, such as Ninja Pop and their current SDEKS. They're charging retail prices for everything, and not really adding that much for backers compared to other KS's, so the feeling that they're giving backers a deal isn't there for everyone.
So, the feel of this KS for Recon is that they're not giving any kind of deal, and just the basic 2 games aren't fleshed out. If I only get 1 of those boxes, I don't enough miniatures to completely play the game without using tokens in place of SecFor miniatures and workers.
It also feels like they're shoving the dice game on us in the $200 pledge, and then telling us its basically free. Well, swap some more miniatures in there at the $50 value. I just don't want that game, and it subtracts value in my eyes.
So, I hope they come back, throw a bunch of cheap plastic figures at this to get this KS back on track. Negative days tend to breed a defection, as backers seem to be pack animals. They need to take the bull by the horns, give the backers some reassurance.
Edited for the following:
Holy snacks. They just made a post. They traded out the bullet markers, which they SHOULD upgrade the game with, for some more miniatures. Miniatures are good, but we're no where near that SG. And they seem smug in this update. But I don't know why??
Is the FCC dressed in suits? Or is that figure a worker? I'm confused...
Not with his hand the way it is. He would have the thumb down and fingers to the back of the bottle if pitching underhand. And still would be catching himself on fire (even more likely actually). Leg position is wrong for an underhand throw too.
Sorry, it just is an artist/sculptor team that messed up.
Also, if you look at the forward leg in the picture, it is up and forward, the sculpt makes it look back, as if the throw was already completed. Just poor...
Alpharius wrote: Is it me, or is there a bit too much 'snark' in this update?
Update #26
Mar 27 2014
You gotta problem...Yo! I'll solve it, get rid of the bullets while the Saboteur revolves it!
23 comments
25 likes
We’ve replaced the bullets with the Saboteur and some more workers. Now everything is sweet. Let’s rock!
So let it be done.
I agree 100% with you on this... I'm one of the few people that already see this as a decent value but the snarkyness and passive agressive style of their updates and comments is starting to tick me off.
Alph, LOTS of snark. Clearly not happy with the fanbases reaction to this campaign.
So, the molotav guy is the saboteur? He rolls around without armor, and a tie around his head? Also, I laughed at the 200 year old AK slung on his back...
A reference to Yul Brinner's Pharaoh in The Ten Commandments perhaps? Whenever he made a proclamation in the film it followed with "So let it be written; so let it be done."
Salacious Greed wrote: Alph, LOTS of snark. Clearly not happy with the fanbases reaction to this campaign.
So, the molotav guy is the saboteur? He rolls around without armor, and a tie around his head? Also, I laughed at the 200 year old AK slung on his back...
Some guy in the comments for the update said he is an existing sculpt from the table top game.
A reference to Yul Brinner's Pharaoh in The Ten Commandments perhaps? Whenever he made a proclamation in the film it followed with "So let it be written; so let it be done."
I like that answer, but I don't think that's the case here!
Though they are appearing a little Pharoah-like lately...
I've gotta admit it here, I'm kinda close to pulling my pledge.
He is with House 9 FCC,...... and he has just thrown another Molotov with the other arm,.... that's the follow through.
I'm wondering how the FCC House 9 will fit into the board game,.... they can clearly storm an office,.... but they don't have offices as they are not a MegaCon,.... more like a rouge anti-establishment organization,..... the FCC have 12 houses,.... we've only seen the two (9, and 4).
I love how House 9 plays in the TT game,.... the Saboteur plays in a very intersting way,.... we'll have to see how it goes in Recon.
yamato wrote: He is with House 9 FCC,...... and he has just thrown another Molotov with the other arm,.... that's the follow through.
You have to be making that up, right? Otherwise, he has been holding the burning bottle by the neck longer than I thought. Makes the sculpt/art even more stupid when you add that bit of backstory to it.
I don't know, I tried to raise my concerns in the comments, the community is in worse defensive mode than the creators....
"we are climbing the valley" sure you are lets not mess with reality or facts.
I just hope when the dust settles the game will be decent, I do not think it can stand as a miniature boardgame with more than half the "miniatures" as counters.
"Didn't Decent 2.0 had the lieutenants as counters?" yes, it did that's why it got the flack it did and it was a sequel to a really popular title with many years under its belt, from a really heavyweight company of the boardgames gender and it had a ton of minis in.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I don't know, I tried to raise my concerns in the comments, the community is in worse defensive mode than the creators....
"we are climbing the valley" sure you are lets not mess with reality or facts.
I just hope when the dust settles the game will be decent, I do not think it can stand as a miniature boardgame with more than half the "miniatures" as counters.
"Didn't Decent 2.0 had the lieutenants as counters?" yes, it did that's why it got the flack it did and it was a sequel to a really popular title with many years under its belt, from a really heavyweight company of the boardgames gender and it had a ton of minis in.
I know a lot of board gamer first types, and having an actual miniature for everything isn't always a priority. It's nice, but not a game breaker if the game is actually fun.
And from the rules and the game play videos, it looks like the stuff represented by counters(with the exception of radar blips) don't stay on the game board very long. SecFor1 guys and Employees won't probably last for even a full player turn before getting killed or captured. Blip moves into LOS-its a SecFor1-Reserve Action triggers-BLAM-dead. You probably don't even need to reach for the mini you don't have half the time. And getting them out at all is dependent on how fast you push up the security level. So you may be complaining about not having minis to use for 5 minutes out of an hour long game.
PsychoticStorm wrote: I don't know, I tried to raise my concerns in the comments, the community is in worse defensive mode than the creators....
"we are climbing the valley" sure you are lets not mess with reality or facts.
I just hope when the dust settles the game will be decent, I do not think it can stand as a miniature boardgame with more than half the "miniatures" as counters.
"Didn't Decent 2.0 had the lieutenants as counters?" yes, it did that's why it got the flack it did and it was a sequel to a really popular title with many years under its belt, from a really heavyweight company of the boardgames gender and it had a ton of minis in.
You think there fans are defensive on the KS, try their forums.
When I first bought Mercs rule book about 2.5 years ago, I went on to their forums seeking help and asking some questions with their movement system.
I pounded with "knowing nothing" and was deemed a stupid 40k troll. And I didn't even get a single answer.
Fast fact: I never played a game of 40k until about a year later after this incident.
PsychoticStorm wrote: well I can blame them for their choice of language and interactivity, but not for their fans.
I agree there,... Sucks if the forum snapped at you,.... But I wouldn't hold that against the company.
I hope this project still has some legs to move forward,... At least the seem to be listening to the masses and making some adjustments.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Btw,... Just look at what happens to you here if you post in the wrong forum, or don't follow the guidelines for a particular forum,...... "Has anyone heard that new XXXXX rumor" in the news section anyone?
The problem is the masses do not see any issue with the project and some even claim its fine if it ended right now.
I find disappointing that a few vocal think the game as is with carboard counters instead of models for at least two types of units (secfor 1 and civis) has legs to stand against the established miniature boardgame competition.
A reference to Yul Brinner's Pharaoh in The Ten Commandments perhaps? Whenever he made a proclamation in the film it followed with "So let it be written; so let it be done."
I like that answer, but I don't think that's the case here!
Though they are appearing a little Pharoah-like lately...
I've gotta admit it here, I'm kinda close to pulling my pledge.
I'm already out, baby - and it feels good!
Now it's up to them as to whether I keep watching with my $1 popcorn pledge or if they cam make me drop the famous quote from Al Pacino in Godfather 3...
I pulled my pledge after reading the myth rule book. It was like chewing shoe leather. I was going to drop because of Haste Games KS, but decided to keep anyway because I thought I would regret it.
The components are top notch, but I contributed for a co-op board game. The pieces could have been cardboard on little standees. Would rather have a quality rule book for my group and not metal cards.
PsychoticStorm wrote: The problem is the masses do not see any issue with the project and some even claim its fine if it ended right now.
I find disappointing that a few vocal think the game as is with carboard counters instead of models for at least two types of units (secfor 1 and civis) has legs to stand against the established miniature boardgame competition.
You know what? I'm going to be blunt here.
I've only vaguely heard of MERCs before. I've seen some painted figures, thought they looked nice, but they were a little expensive to buy for not-imperial guard, etc. The game is and has always been off my radar as far as ever actually playing it goes.
I got on board with MYTH at the very end. Great deal, lots of models, nice art direction. Still don't have the game, of course, so it's a point of annoyance. Anyway, since MYTH turned out to be an irresistible deal, I put some money down on MERC on Day 1, expecting, well, something a lot closer to the MYTH campaign. I hate micromanaging pledges, so if something turns out to be less awesome than I hoped, and I want to back out, I usually pull my pledge in the last day or two. I did so for DBX just recently. On the other hand, if I see a campaign is just not going to be for me (SDE or that CMON Not-SDE campaign where they couldn't even give us an estimation for AU shipping) - or something about the campaign just pisses me off (as it has here) then I'll pull early and treat it like one of the many campaigns I wait for the 48-hour reminder on.
Basically, I'm not worried about their game now. I'm not worried for them. I'm basically indifferent now that I'm out - no longer invested. It's up to them to make the deal enticing enough to make me come back in - which is harder than getting me in the first time, since I no longer care.
Why do they have the FCC saboteur figure as a freebie? If he is house 9, can he be used with the house 4 guys in the box unlocked at $400k?
Being outside the Mercs dramaverse, I don't get some of their freebies so far. And having just watched their gameplay video, you need a crapton of worker figures AND they lost the game. And they know how to play. That doesn't bode particularly well for playing with my family. After losing several times, my kids wouldn't want to play this anymore. Especially as they lost with the most player friendly faction, and I don't even think they attacked with all 5 CCC in the room. That's a rather depressing gameplay video. They really didn't do all that much overall...
This looks more like a hardcore group game, rather than a game for families. Any oversights or problems seem to be magnified. This sheds more light on the game for me.
The FCC are a faction in MERCS but not MegaCon,...
This particular guy is unique in that he is not armored or trained,.... He was not a strict member of the House 9 team. The story is more like a disgruntled worker who takes matters into his own hands, and joins into the attack along side the House 9 guys.
I'd assume that there would be some way to play him as a special employee in the game.
He's probably like a random event. Sometimes one of the workers will just flip and start attacking everyone, maybe? I think he's a step in the right direction. Now if they'd just step up their communication a bit.
I doubt he is, today starts with -181$ but also with backers at -1.
In the comments one dared to suggest the art direction of the tiles is too present day and that some futurization would make it look better and the swarm got out for his head (he also dared saying the two semicircles look bad on design and something less in your face might had been better).
I love how they have something awesome super secret planned for 350k but we have to reach it first for them to show us... Well if you want to get people excited about this, by all means show it to make interest and goodwill.
That's super funny that they have a secret SG planned, and that it's awesome. They keep saying how FANTASTIC their current SGs are. If the SGs were fantastic, the money would be piling up. Not having people pulling their pledges.
Also, having watched the gameplay videos last night, I was a little miffed that they were using "tokens" from Myth for this game, and the little metal coin tokens were cool. But not cool enough to put into Recon. Punch tokens after a KS are kind of lame. Most other games are upgrading tokens to physical markers anymore.
I find it interesting that you can purchase more Workers as an add-on but not more of the security force figures. Those look like solid sculpts of near-future troops, you'd think if they sold them separately they would bring in some easy money.
I'm not sure that there is a surprise SG at $350k,..... They just said that they had a surprise.
But I hope that it is a freebie,..... I could be a tie-in similar to how they announced the Twilight knight was one of the big pledge characters in MYTH and that each backer would get one,..... But it could also just be a silly pulp add on :/
Who knows,..... I still think there is a "traffic to the page" issue on top of some folks PTP'ing.
Still hopefull,.... Last year when they did show promotions at Adepticon,.... There was a big in crease in the daily pledges,.... Basically, they more than doubled their previous daily run rate, and it kept up for a week or so until the big final days.
I would rather it not been that fit to the current situation, alas t is.
@ Alpharius
it might end that or it might go higher if they make the deal right in the end, but, if the myth did not get any of the upgrades made from the kickstarter passed on the box and this will be the same on this, I am afraid the actual non KS game will not go well.
I trudged into the comments, and find it funny that they make a difference, as in cost, between the workers and secfor, and the actual Mercs figures. The cost difference of those two plastics is neglible, pennies, per figure.
They also apparently (through convention conversation) said they made money on Myth, which is good. But that means that they are seeking actual profit from Recon, which doesn't sit well with me.
Guess I'll watch from the fence, see what the next 3 weeks hold. I hope their next gameplay video is better, and doesn't involve them losing the game...
They also apparently (through convention conversation) said they made money on Myth, which is good. But that means that they are seeking actual profit from Recon, which doesn't sit well with me.
Well crap,...... You are supposed to lose money on a KS project? I somehow missed the memo on that.
Well I think he is ok with them to make money, but not to make profit as in not giving the money of KS to the project but keeping them like a retail thing, can't express it right.
I, somehow, still want to see this succeed and go well, but their decisions make it doubtful.
it might end that or it might go higher if they make the deal right in the end, but, if the myth did not get any of the upgrades made from the kickstarter passed on the box and this will be the same on this, I am afraid the actual non KS game will not go well.
you probably have to take into account these games are meant to retail for $60 (so will be discounted to less), rather than the $100 which most KS box games seem to be set for
(so less wiggle room to add stuff to the retail box before it becomes uneconomic, while adding a few minis would not cost a lot once the moulds are done, dropping counters does not save anything as you pay per sheet so as long as you're including some of them no saving)
They are at 60$ on the kickstarter, I am expecting them to be more on retail, at least 20$ more.
That is not the main issue though, the boardgame market has set their presets, a miniature boardgame is expected to have miniatures and not counters, if the game comes with 10 mercs of whom 5 only get rarely used, 5 secfor type 2 and 5 secfor type 3 all the same pose and the secfor type 1 and civilians remain counters it will not get a warm reception, remember decent 2.0 coming from a rather big dog of the boardgame genre got flack for having the lieutenants as counters and by all means it had lots of figures, the latest SDE expansion was criticized for having scull counters instead of actual 3D pile of sculls.
To be frank, after sculpting and molding costs are done plastic miniatures are dirt cheap, so I cannot understand why they refuse to upgrade the basic box with things kickstarter has allowed funding.
I kind of see each of the two boxes as the retail equivalent to a Zombicide box set. They'll both compete for customers and shelf space at stores.
Zombicide rules are built along the number of zombies included (zombies get extra activations if all the figures for that type are in play). Zombicide does not give you 4 plastic zombie walkers and 20 cardboard counters for walker...
We will have to see,.... I've asked the question,..... But the lack of a definitive answer tells me that they may not have decided yet on exactly what might make it to the retail box.
They have hinted that the expanded team members might make it in,.... But nothing clear cut. I'd like to see the employees and secfor1 have minis too,.... But I do understand that most of those appear and are kills within a number of seconds (I think they only have one HP),... So if they wanted to cut corners to hit a price point, I see the logic.
I'm sure they could have offered a big box with all the minis for the over $100 retail mark. I wonder which has a better potential retail success?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Btw - I think I was right about the $350k surprise,.... I don't think it is a SG at $350,.... But just some more stuff added too the campaign,...
I'm sure the masses will erupt in indignation :/
I think a future backer number base goal will be released as well as some add ons,..... Maybe another set of pulp figures that they have eluded to.
yamato wrote: We will have to see,.... I've asked the question,..... But the lack of a definitive answer tells me that they may not have decided yet on exactly what might make it to the retail box.
Or the lack of a definitive answer could be indicative of their piss poor communication on this project.
yamato wrote: We will have to see,.... I've asked the question,..... But the lack of a definitive answer tells me that they may not have decided yet on exactly what might make it to the retail box.
Or the lack of a definitive answer could be indicative of their piss poor communication on this project.
I know which possibility I would bet on...
Well all things considered,.... There been pretty responsive,.... But I understand,... Some think that if they don't answer every question, that they are neglecting things.
I've seen waaaaaaay worse on KS. I did not send them a PM,... Just posted on their forum
I've sent them a PM. More than a week ago. No answer. I don't mind that they didn't answer my question, I know they have lots of things going on. But they pick and choose which questions they answer in the comments section. So I don't feel that only answering the questions that make you look good and ignore all the questions about possible issues is a good response.
Orlando, if they send the two Recon boxes to retail at $60, then I squarely put this KS as a ripoff. Especially as they want me to buy more things to improve the game experience, such as Worker models, doors and the solo play sheets. So, for the backers to pay retail prices for the game, they give you the GCC Judge figure, which doesn't have rules. Since they'll be selling the games to retailers for $30 or so, they aren't really passing on anything for me to be a backer.
I think some of their Myth level backers are getting restless too, as the $40 pledge level isn't delivering nearly enough for that price, even with the revealed future SGs.
Yamato, I think you're right. If they just reveal more stuff to buy at $350k, I think they might get a negative reaction from the backers. But their comments all seem to be ok with this "valley" they think they're in. Kind of disappointing.
I have seen guys repost questions multiple times, include while Mercs is posting, sometimes even pleading "Can you please answer my PM?"
Additionally, they list add ons and stretches with NO explanation as to what these things bring to the game. It is Pretty Picture, better up your pledge! instead of explaining how cool add on X is and what exactly it comes with and how it will enhance my Recon experience.
If that is your definition of pretty responsive and good communications, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
I am guessing they will disclose other aspects of the game they don't want to disclose yet or the play testers may be privy to other info that is not for public consumption at this point.
Always the negative waves with you, moriarty, always the negative waves.
The cool fact is they have given grass roots gamers the opportunity to test and shape the game.
How many times have we seen on this forum and other ones people say "they should have let real gamers playtest the game first". Looks like these guys are giving this opportunity.
The MERCS crew finally answered my Not-Robocop Purchasing Question:
Alpharius Mar 25, 2014
Hello!
Will we have the option to purchase additional copies of the "CPP 1 Corporate Police Prototype-1" miniature?
Thanks!
MERCS Miniatures Mar 28, 2014
I am sorry, but no.
I guess they want some of the 'exclusives' to 'force' a min-$120 pledge, but I'm not sure if Not-Robo is as big an incentive to pledge as a Kingdom Death Crossover is!
I have now flicked my pessimism switch to shield me from emotional distress LOL.
I have never pledged on a KS. What is a backer based SG exactly compared to the normal one? Does it mean someone who has pledged has given some backdoor funding to produce a new SG? Sorry to be so ignorant on this.
Chimaera wrote: I have no flicked my pessimism switch to shield me from emotional distress LOL.
I have never pledged on a KS. What is a backer based SG exactly compared to the normal one? Does it mean someone who has pledged has given some backdoor funding to produce a new SG? Sorry to be so ignorant on this.
It is a stretch goal that is unlocked by meeting a certain number of backers instead of money. An example would be to unlock a chew toy for the dog when they get six million backers.
I think once the let it be known that the mystery was gonna be a 'pay to get' add on they killed the incentive to up your pledge to see what the surprise was.
Got to admit I am surprised it hasn't gone over 350k yet.
I have to concede I do quite like the bulk of the minis and will probably jump in for that reason alone but was hoping it would hit 500k to pick up a lot of the SG extra minis.
Could it be there are a lot like me, I am guessing so?
It's not just the amount of minis you get for $120 but the variety is also unusual. The VIP's, Scientists, Engineeers etc are quite unique and I like the look of the OPFOR guys and cameos. Even if the game was crud for the amount paid I could swallow it for the minis. I am sure I could put them to good use.
This shouldn't be a driving factor but it is for me.
What does the Mercs game play like? Could even go for OPFOR pledge if the feedback on Mercs TT was good. A 400 page rule book covering all the factions is also substantial. I understand there was a problem with the old book but this second edition should address all the factions which weren't in the 1st edition.
Chimaera wrote: Out of interest how much in thousands did Myth jump over the last couple of days if you can remember.
I wouldn't class those comments as surly either. Just straight up and honest from what I can see.
The last two days it did like, half a million.
This one is leaving me feeling sad and a bit lukewarm. And as this and SDE are competing for my KS dollars for this month, I'm unfortunately having trouble getting excited about this right now :/
500k is substantial. Didn't realise that sort of action could happen in the last 2 days of a KS. Sort of makes me more optimistic Mercs Recon could hit 500k+ .
Was there a particular trigger for it or just a load of fence huggers like me getting off their butts.
Looking at what you get for $120 if it hits 500k almost feels like a no brainer.
Anyone out there with feedback on how Merc TT plays?
I guess this was the comment I had just read that lead me to that characterization:
Mercs Miniatures wrote:Here is a bit of an education on add-ons (it was to us as well). You can roughly gauge people buying add-ons to about 1/4 of the backers. It is that small. How do we know: we know because of the three BIG add-ons (Skald, Spriggan, IA) in Myth, not one was purchased by more than 1500 people. Most were much less. So judging stretch goals by deciding if people will "buy" them as an add-on is not a good way to decide things. So many of you are clamoring for more add-ons, but we must be careful. Simply put, we could get caught producing a high-priced add-on for less than 500 people. For instance, you know all the people shout for double-captains in Myth and how much we needed to allow it. We listened and allowed it.... less than 50 people did it.
I mean... you could say this all sorts of ways, but I dunno.
Not really a big deal, I guess, but I certainly wouldn't class their communication as "positive". Creator interaction is a pretty important part of KS campaigns... and one that should be easy to get right (imo).
Also note that I'd like this to succeed... but there are literally a half dozen campaigns I'd like to back right now, so every little bit counts.
Yeah, now that I see the context, it's not really a big deal. However, like I said, lots of fantastic campaigns going right now... so every little bit helps draw people in (or vice versa).
They don't seem surly to me. Maybe ....flat is a better term?
I would say surly sometimes, flat others. Kind of deluded a lot of the time. It really depends on when a good idea fairy shows up, and the rabid mob descends upon him and his "common sense" idea. That's when they're surly. But I'm talking about the backers.
Mercs are still pretty much MIA, and unreadable for the most part. The updates guy seems kind of angry that they're not having a money-quake, and their computer isn't spitting out dollar bills from the "coffee cup holder".
Well, they're all on the front page of N&R . I don't want to derail this thread, but Dwarven Forge, Mierce Miniatures and Fireteam Zero are some of the big ones, and then there are a lot of cool small ones also on the front page here (Impact Miniatures, Mechadrome, and soon Paulson Games' Mecha Front).
I am planning to make a kickstarter archive thread for just that purpose, though... i.e. keeping track of campaigns. It will happen after AdeptiCon, though... now back to painting
Chimaera wrote: 500k is substantial. Didn't realise that sort of action could happen in the last 2 days of a KS. Sort of makes me more optimistic Mercs Recon could hit 500k+ .
Kingdom Death did around $950k in the final three days.
Zombicide Season 2 did around $500k in the final two days.
It's not unprecedented, that's for sure.
Was there a particular trigger for it or just a load of fence huggers like me getting off their butts.
I was a last day backer for Myth, and I backed because, at that point, it was really "too good to pass up." At the point I backed, you just got so much for free that I had trouble justifying not backing it. This one doesn't have that same feel to me....yet.
If they have some RECON stuff to show at Adepticon, they could get a real boost, too.
Had a look at the majority of other KS on here but didn't seem to warm to them the same way as I have to Mercs Recon for various reason of production value, sculpts, theme or setting.
Horses for courses I guess.
Was there a particular trigger for it or just a load of fence huggers like me getting off their butts.
I was a last day backer for Myth, and I backed because, at that point, it was really "too good to pass up." At the point I backed, you just got so much for free that I had trouble justifying not backing it. This one doesn't have that same feel to me....yet.
If they have some RECON stuff to show at Adepticon, they could get a real boost, too.
Down to momentum/critical mass at this point then.
This mystery backer SG could be a key influencer at this point. Hitting the 400k mark could also be another trigger as the extra mission pack pushes the proposition in to the " to good to pass up" territory.
When is Adepticon? May be interesting to watch what happens around that date.
RiTides wrote: I guess this was the comment I had just read that lead me to that characterization:
Mercs Miniatures wrote:Here is a bit of an education on add-ons (it was to us as well). You can roughly gauge people buying add-ons to about 1/4 of the backers. It is that small. How do we know: we know because of the three BIG add-ons (Skald, Spriggan, IA) in Myth, not one was purchased by more than 1500 people. Most were much less. So judging stretch goals by deciding if people will "buy" them as an add-on is not a good way to decide things. So many of you are clamoring for more add-ons, but we must be careful. Simply put, we could get caught producing a high-priced add-on for less than 500 people. For instance, you know all the people shout for double-captains in Myth and how much we needed to allow it. We listened and allowed it.... less than 50 people did it.
I mean... you could say this all sorts of ways, but I dunno.
Not really a big deal, I guess, but I certainly wouldn't class their communication as "positive". Creator interaction is a pretty important part of KS campaigns... and one that should be easy to get right (imo).
Also note that I'd like this to succeed... but there are literally a half dozen campaigns I'd like to back right now, so every little bit counts.
Well, the comment there just seems honest. Though overall, I agree with you. It doesn't seem especially upbeat either. Still, I'd rather have flat than the over the top cultish (with added sockpuppets) that we got from the Games and Gears campaign. To me that just reeked of used-car-salesman or the over-the-top I used to get walking into a new GW store. The early comment about "lack of competition" really rubbed me the wrong way, as noted, and the flat comms since then (and the flat campaign) had me pulling my pledge, and hasn't exactly enticed me back at this stage, though. (I'm also not sure how double-Captain "hurt" them, since they were offering single Captains anyway...)
Chimaera wrote: 500k is substantial. Didn't realise that sort of action could happen in the last 2 days of a KS. Sort of makes me more optimistic Mercs Recon could hit 500k+ .
Kingdom Death did around $950k in the final three days.
Zombicide Season 2 did around $500k in the final two days.
It's not unprecedented, that's for sure.
Was there a particular trigger for it or just a load of fence huggers like me getting off their butts.
I was a last day backer for Myth, and I backed because, at that point, it was really "too good to pass up." At the point I backed, you just got so much for free that I had trouble justifying not backing it. This one doesn't have that same feel to me....yet.
If they have some RECON stuff to show at Adepticon, they could get a real boost, too.
The thing to remember is that MYTH had no first-day spike, and the last-days spikes came when the deals were irresistible. MERCS has already had a lot of their spike, and the deals are still far from irresistible right now. They can (and will) have a last-day spike, but it remains to be seen just how much it will be, since a lot of the fence-sitters were on board on day 1, and the rewards haven't amped up to match them this time.
Chimaera wrote: 500k is substantial. Didn't realise that sort of action could happen in the last 2 days of a KS. Sort of makes me more optimistic Mercs Recon could hit 500k+ .
Kingdom Death did around $950k in the final three days. Zombicide Season 2 did around $500k in the final two days.
It's not unprecedented, that's for sure.
I would note that in both those examples, the creator had a very active and very positive presence in the comments section.
You cannot be sure all the fence sitters were in on day one and this can only be your assumption..
I would imagine there are a lot still like me just watching but at 400k I am in for sure.
You will see from some of the posts on BGG by the company that they have apologised for not being involved so much on the comments section but they were trying to sort out some of the issues with Myth and their priority had to be this way for the time being. I can respect that and I am sure those who bought Myth can. Another post said they also got triple the amount of PM's they were expecting for Recon and were struggling to keep up or in the posts words "losing the war"..
This isn't a big company with a PR dept to match. From what I understand its a small group of guys trying to produce something good, can't knock them for that.
Chimaera wrote: You cannot be sure all the fence sitters were in on day one and this can only be your assumption..
I would imagine there are a lot still like me just watching but at 400k I am in for sure.
You will see from some of the posts on BGG by the company have apologised for not being involved so much but they were trying to sort out some of the issues with Myth and their priority had to be this way for the time being. I can respect that and I am sure those who bought Myth can.
I didn't say that all of them were. But I am sure that a lot of the fence sitters that got on board at the end of MYTH got on board MERCS on day 1. I think that's a pretty reasonable assumption.
You also don't get to tell me what my assumptions are, so I'd advise you to be a bit more careful in choosing your words going forward if you want to maintain a civil discourse.
I'm one of those who bought MYTH, as are many of us here. I can respect the fact that they felt a need to rush this campaign out before they finished fulfiling MYTH, or even shipping the first wave out to US backers. Who could possibly have foretold that this would create issues? Oh, yeah, most of us here.
I didn't say that all of them were. But I am sure that a lot of the fence sitters that got on board at the end of MYTH got on board MERCS on day 1. I think that's a pretty reasonable assumption. You also don't get to tell me what my assumptions are, so I'd advise you to be a bit more careful in choosing your words going forward if you want to maintain a civil discourse.
Nice way to deliberately misread the intent of what I typed, be unnecessarily rude as a reaction, then ignore all of the rest of the content I wrote.
Everything I said still stands. It's your choice if you want to continue to be rude and take the conversation that way or if you'd like to resume a civil discussion.
If you want to play high and mighty that's up to you but there was no need for it and it was your call.
Unless you have some god like insight then an assumption is what it is, an assumption.
Of course I am open to civil discussion but your reaction was the one that was unwarranted. I am sure if you reflect on what I said you will see there was no malice, you were the one who made it into something it wasn't.
I've been fence sitting since day one and I was a backer of Myth. There aren't any early birds so there isn't a huge incentive not to watch and see how things are going.
350k reveals! While technically not the next stretch goal for Recon, 350k is a pretty fantastic number! To all our backers, thank you!
We've decided to make 350k the number to reveal a new additional purchase and stretch goal.
The additional purchase now available is the FCC House 9 Silent Operative Mission Pack.
The newly revealed stretch goal is a backer goal, and a pretty awesome one at that. At 3000 backers the USCR Behemoth variant sculpt will be unlocked!
As an aside, this character is terribly fun to draw. When Brian first gave me the specs for this guy, he was like "This dude should have a hammer and machine guns on his shoulders." My response was "sweeeeet."
He'll make for an amazing variant model. Let's unlock him!
And the crowd goes wild! or not really......
Mercs: Recon the kickstarter were amassing money for the project unlocks you the privilege to give him more money.
The fact that so many days have passed and the 1,5k slots have not been filled yet shows the faith there is in this project.
They had their chance they could have given a free expansion pack to drive the deal up, I will admit the behemoth is a good idea, a bit out of place of course because no USCR box exists, but, I really doubt we will hit 3k backers at the current situation.
Mercs give at the moment 25 "free models" one is irrelevant, 10 are a nice touch and 14 should have been in the boxed game from start, the starting miniatures are 40 (yes, I deliberately put the judge on the free minis else put them in 24, 41 respectively), expansion packs are 4 to pay (1 not unlocked yet) 1 given free (not unlocked yet) which for me also is their weakest faction (house 4).
What to make from this kickstarter? stretch goals are all over the place, no backer who is not a fan can feel comfortable with them, especially the first one, the amount of "pay us" items in contrast to "thanks for your support here is stuff for you and for others to be lured in" is ridiculously imbalanced, their communication is severely lacking, their promises even for gameplay videos are not kept, "they need to short Myth first" I hear you cry? well they had been warned about it two weeks before the decided to launch it, their response was that they have no direct competition and they do not expect Myth impacting them at all.
For me the creators are in shock this has not sold like hotcakes, were completely unprepared for any problems with Myth, especially the rulebook, quite edgy at the current direction this kickstarter goes, really not thrilled to go the extra length and provide the incentive needed to make this project move and worse of all they show it, "Congratulations of two more really cool miniatures!" if you feel this way, just don't say it.
Moreover they ignore the most critical and valid questions, does the basic boxes get upgraded? if no they have a really good chance of been a commercial failure, how does the dicegame plays, I am assuming its something like quariors (sp?) or Steampark or a mix of both, but its gameplay video "will be up soon" almost two weeks now, or what the hell is the infected mission pack.
Really most of these could be solved by writing a few lines.
I am really doubtful at this point that the project will have a end rush spike, I feel what spike it would have was at the start, as a deal it is.... not good and the prospects of been good are dropping rapidly by each day and update.
Not that it would be an "excuse", but maybe they lost money on Myth? Or at least didn't make a lot of it?
Those US$ 100,-/US$ 150,- pledge level shipments are selling for US$ 400,- + on ebay. They are excellent value.
Inversely, "Myth-the-retail-product" IMO stinks, because literally NOTHING from the Kickstarter-add-ons went into the basic retail box. It's exactly the box you'd have gotten if the Myth Kickstarter would've made it's US$ 40.000,- funding goal and not a dollar more.
Maybe the numbers didn't add up for them on Myth, and they hope to produce less for more money now?
Either way, US$ 350.000,- isn't shabby. DBX did EVERYTHING to keep backers happy. Daily Stretch-Goals, whether funded or not, insane amounts of miniatures, constant "comment-section-entertainment" 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. They didn't have much more to show for it.
If anything, I am surprised how - relatively - well Myth is doing despite the hands-off approach. I am rather thinking a lot of other companies could've saved themselves the hassle of trying to "keep everyone happy", cause the impact seems smaller than I thought it would be.
I was a last day backer on Myth as it just seemed a no brainer and the Twilight Knight was the final push. I backed Recon at the $120 level day 1 but I've dropped back to $1 just to get the updates which so far are poor yet another paid add on expansion has really put me off this one and unless they really pull out all the stops in the end I won't be backing this. Not having received Myth yet with international shipping being on the long finger is also an issue.
At this stage I'd rather go all in on SDE and add some more to my DBX and Dead zone pledge than give Mercs more of my money (but of course they don't have any real competition on KS do they!)
To be fair I was surprised and horrified the Myth box did not receive any of the kickstarter love, its a meh deal to be honest as it is without any of the things kickstarter unlocked, Mercs recon is a thing I do not see do well in retail at all if it gets shipped as is, why do a kickstarter if you are not going to upgrade your core product at all, really?
From time to time I think people blame mantic and CMON, but they pass the funds to their product, Megacon on the other hand handles it as a pure preorder from what is seems.
Honestly, given that this is the first weekend most people can attempt to play MYTH, I wouldn't be suprised to see pledges drop a bit. The MYTH rulebook is such an incoherent mess that its almost impossible to play "correctly" even if you print out the setup and "quick start" pdfs from the MYTH website. Go on their forums and the same questions get repeated over and over again.
Its a moot point until we reach 3k backers which is doubtful at this moment, that aside, I can only assume that, it will be a free model that cannot be purchased for extra copies.
To be frank it has all the tools to go well and be an irresistible deal, the biggest frustration is how mismanaged it is and how it has failed time and time again to become one.
I think this latest update was more of a step in the right direction. There was a bit more text in this one at least. The USCR Colossus is a pretty good choice for a backer freebie, too. I also have no problem with more expansions being added, even if they are paid add ons. The one thing I really scratch my head about is that one of the stretch goal freebies is a guy that expands a paid add on. Why do that?
Alpharius wrote:I completely agree - but there's plenty of time left, and certainly plenty of room for improvement!
There is time and room for improvement, what I wonder and fear is if there will be momentum to allow that.
Barzam wrote:I think this latest update was more of a step in the right direction. There was a bit more text in this one at least. The USCR Colossus is a pretty good choice for a backer freebie, too. I also have no problem with more expansions being added, even if they are paid add ons. The one thing I really scratch my head about is that one of the stretch goal freebies is a guy that expands a paid add on. Why do that?
well given it is a freebie for an expansion that does not exist yet, they "may" have it as a free stretch goal.
DaveC wrote: At this stage I'd rather go all in on SDE and add some more to my DBX and Dead zone pledge than give Mercs more of my money (but of course they don't have any real competition on KS do they!)
Yeah, I don't think this new update made me want to give them money. It did sort out why the saboteur is a SG, but not make me want to give them money. It just reinforces the feeling that this is less of a game and more of a vehicle to remake the Mercs line in plastic. As the basic deal stands, I don't think there is a hope of 3000 backers. Next question, that we probably won't get answered, is if the Colossus is in the USCR expansion, or if the resculpt will be the only way to get a Colossus in plastic. Ugh. More questions instead of answers...
berets.
the Blue berets make them perfect.
?
