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We know...

I prefer to see a game be good by its own merit.

If Recon becomes known as "the game were you can get cheaper miniatures for Mercs" then it has failed, I would rather hear a good review next year from the dice tower than a "why did they even bother review".

The above been said, I did touch the fact that it can tap on two markets and to be frank most Merc hardcore base has most of the miniatures offered since they are not resculpts updated to better quality miniatures for the most part.

I do not rail against add on prices, I am strongly commenting on the streachgoal money amounts required, one would expect that for the same money the game needed to be founded a 1/4th of a single box, 1/8th of the funding total would come as free, of course one would expect more than 2 sculpts in 6 free minis for a streachgoal that was 70k when the funding was just 50.

I am also strongly criticizing they fact they failed to capitalize the first 250k and make the basic pledge irresistible, securing a steady supply of new backers, I also strongly expressed my amazement that they did not use the money from Myth to make the core Myth box more appealing, for me the core of the kickstarter is to not only fund the product, but also to pass the savings into making the core product better.

Here's a little vid about the tiles and set ups,. Not too much info, but clear that some of the tiles in the two base boxes are different:





Automatically Appended Next Post:
CCC Gunner,... Pretty sure this is a female figure:

Should be, but why they insist on these featureless legs?

 yamato wrote:

CCC Gunner,... Pretty sure this is a female figure:

Wow. First close-up I've really seen of their figures. That's really not a very good model. Well, it's mostly decent, but the thighs are awful, particularly with the huge armoured lower legs. They look like tights rather than any kind of practical combat pants.

The resculpt of the CCC Leader,..... Not too impressed we that scanner,.... Looks too clunky!

Legs on that one look decent, at least.

That's my main issue with all their models and what I would hope the KS would solve by allocating funds in resculpting them.

The middle part of the legs area is always that bad.

1. Isn't the minimum "send my info to the pl,edge manager" pledge $10?

2. Stretch goal. It's stretch goal. STRETCH goal. Two T's, one A. Stretch











goal. Stretch goal.

3. Is it just me or is that CCC heavy mini a bit knock-kneed? What is she, half Mantic ogre?

4. Have they specified how the character plastic is different from the minion plastic? I's not "premium" restic is it?

These models are terrible. I'm still watching but unless they're resculpted doubt I'm pledging.

Funny thing is - I kind of like the look of these miniatures!

I like the look of them, too, especially the yellow jackets (CCC?).

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I am also strongly criticizing they fact they failed to capitalize the first 250k and make the basic pledge irresistible,

Mantic recently made this mistake with their Dreadball kickstarter as well. It seems a big opening day often generates a lot of overconfidence.

As to the two models shown in the latest update, I like the leader. He looks like a muscular dude wearing nanite armor. The gunner on the other hand. Is she bolemic, underfed, or a super model for giant boots in her off time? She should be proportional to the leader pretty much. Not anorexic with the same foot armor. But I like the models. Minus her collagen (sp?) injected lips. But I really like the models in all the sets so far, except the EU. Nobody really goes to combat in berets. Cowboy hats, yes, I can let that slide. But not berets.

Yes, I have to agree they've really squandered the stretch goals. There are no enticements to drag new people in here to fling their money at the computer screen. But we have 3 weeks for them to figure this out.

I quite like the berets myself, and am planning my EU force to pull double time as PanO fusiliers in Infinity the Blue berets make them perfect.

 rabidaskal wrote:
I quite like the berets myself, and am planning my EU force to pull double time as PanO fusiliers in Infinity the Blue berets make them perfect.

I was thinking the same thing!

There's a lot of 'cross compatibility' potential between MERCS and INFINITY...

I agree the girl is way too skinny,.... You'd have to be tougher than that to make it through training to be a MERC

I'm really not seeing the problems with the minis, other than the undetailed scanner. They look perfectly fine. I don't think the gunner is any skinnier than the Waza Spy or the Kemvar Shock Trooper. She just has bulkier armor. Plus, I don't think she's supposed to be wearing baggy pants like the others. She looks to be wearing a body suit like the Spy and Shock Trooper. not sure why, but she is.

 Barzam wrote:
I'm really not seeing the problems with the minis, other than the undetailed scanner. They look perfectly fine. I don't think the gunner is any skinnier than the Waza Spy or the Kemvar Shock Trooper. She just has bulkier armor. Plus, I don't think she's supposed to be wearing baggy pants like the others. She looks to be wearing a body suit like the Spy and Shock Trooper. not sure why, but she is.

Seconded. I keep seeing the complaints about legs and I'm kind of confused. The new gunner is a bit off, but i feel it's more the pose than the details, her shins don't match at a natural angle to the thighs, but the detail I'm more than fine with (except that scanner, hope that's WIP)

Then again, I've always been a fan of the CCC models. Many of the other factions are hit and miss (honestly, a lot of miss) but I've been tempted as hell by the yellow jackets since the leader and heavy first hit the market some years back and it's only the high price coupled with horrendously bad movement that has kept me from purchasing (hate the cards-to-move, HATE it). So now we're getting cheaper models AND the movement is a non-issue, and while few and far between the stretch goals are looking pretty good to me, I love civilians and the robocop fig. Almost assuredly going to go in for the $120 level

The legs are under detailed its as simple as that, they are also not proportional to the overall models bulkiness making them look odd without something to support them, like a servo system.

As it stands they are clothes that are ridiculously smooth and tight as if it was armour, and as armour they are way too under detailed same goes for the leaders upper combat fatigues under the amour plates.


They need to be bulkier to conform the overall bulkier form and they need more detail work to feel like the material they are supposed to be.


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 Salacious Greed wrote:

Yes, I have to agree they've really squandered the stretch goals. There are no enticements to drag new people in here to fling their money at the computer screen. But we have 3 weeks for them to figure this out.

They cannot realistically "figure this out" without either redesigning the streatchgoals (I remembered the second "t") or it getting pace and reaching 400k faster than it slogs now, from then on its their ball to make it attractive again.

I am not sure redesigning the streachgoals would be a good idea, it would open them to unreasonable demands, the "flexible streatchgoals" could help, but they need to be careful with them too.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

They cannot realistically "figure this out" without either redesigning the streatchgoals (I remembered the second "t") or it getting pace and reaching 400k faster than it slogs now, from then on its their ball to make it attractive again.

You keep implying that its not an attractive project and their miniatures suck and their stretch goals are awful and yada yada yada - but almost 2000 people and $300K seem to disagree with you. Do you just have some beef against these guys?

I think it is attractive,.... but at the moment there is not much out there to drive people to the page to look at it. I know that they will have ads in several places (though none have shown up to this point) and there are the convention tie-ins and I'm sure some cross promotion with some other KS projects as well. I think that even though some have some issues with the stretch goals,.... it's not like they totally suck or anything,.... my 2 cents.

Well, the Myth Agent guy has been unlocked. We're getting into some more proper miniature stretches with better spacing between them. I imagine we'll probably be getting some new Stretch Goals fairly soon, too.

So what'cha going to do with those Myth figures Barzam? Give them to me?

Still hope to see more opfor stuff as stretches roll on. They're going to be the real meat and potatoes of a game like this.

 Alpharius wrote:

 rabidaskal wrote:
I quite like the berets myself, and am planning my EU force to pull double time as PanO fusiliers in Infinity the Blue berets make them perfect.

I was thinking the same thing!

There's a lot of 'cross compatibility' potential between MERCS and INFINITY...

What's the scale like on these things? I had similar thoughts before, and really liked the Yellowjackets, but they were gigantic next the Infinity figures I compared them to.

If these are a bit smaller than the previous metals there might well be some crossover opportunities...

 SavageRobby wrote:
You keep implying that its not an attractive project and their miniatures suck and their stretch goals are awful and yada yada yada - but almost 2000 people and $300K seem to disagree with you. Do you just have some beef against these guys?

I don't think anyone here has a beef with them. Everyone has been discussing their thoughts on the models. Some of the guys really like berets on the models, and see their usage in another game system even. I despise berets on models, as I've had to wear one for an entire career, and having the Chief of Staff of the Army take the black beret away from the elite organization it resided with and give it to the entire Army because he believed that the beret would "make the man", instead of the men of that elite organization instilling their discipline and luster onto the beret just added insult to injury. So, admittedly, I have a dim view of berets on models that aren't made to be walking in a parade. But I have no issue or complaint with those guys enjoying it. I do find humor in them saying they're going to paint the berets blue for the EU, as NATO currently wears light blue berets, but that's more military humor.

As to 2k people backing this, that has been part of the discussion as well. Others and myself believe that most of those are current Mercs and Myth players. I don't play either. So, from an outside perspective, this does not hold the same value as all those people have found in it. I believe that Psychotic may feel the same way. Everyone doesn't perceive things the same way. And 2k people, in a wargaming market of 10s of thousands, isn't justification that it has value. I rail against the fact that at the $120 pledge level they will have included 22 level 1 SecFor card tokens. Then they gave us only 6 miniatures in a stretch goal. This stands out as incongruent in my mind. Why only 6, if they thought I would need as many as 11 with just the base game? And they've said that the 2 games were designed to supplement each other, so I've effectively got 10 level 2 and level 3 SecFor, but only 6 level 1? Level 1 will be who you'll see the most of until you elevate the threat level.

I'm not trying to down them, or hold a beef. But I don't see the symmetry of this KS. As they are trying to entice the dollars out of my wallet, I'm simply not feeling it yet. I really hope that they have something up there sleeve, as they've said they do. I don't believe that they thought $300k was their goal. They have repeatedly said they have all the awesome stuff coming up, not yet shown. And they have SGs out to $400k. My saying they have lackluster SGs, or this isn't attractive yet isn't saying that all those backers are stupid or foolish or anything. It's just saying that it isn't a "must purchase NOW" thing. Personally, I think the Merc SGs are good, they are upgrading the "heroes" the players will use. The other stuff has been mostly misses from my perspective. Those who think that they're doing well have backed, and that is good. But we hit a real slow stretch, and the discussion has turned to hoping they energize this project to garner more backers and get the momentum back. They can do this by improving the base game with SecFor figures and more civilians.

All my own opinion and view, and I've enjoyed the crosstalk and other viewpoints expressed in this thread. That's what is great about this forum, we seem to have a very good cross-section of viewpoints and extremes.

 Salacious Greed wrote:
As to 2k people backing this, that has been part of the discussion as well. Others and myself believe that most of those are current Mercs and Myth players. I don't play either. So, from an outside perspective, this does not hold the same value as all those people have found in it. I believe that Psychotic may feel the same way. Everyone doesn't perceive things the same way. And 2k people, in a wargaming market of 10s of thousands, isn't justification that it has value. I rail against the fact that at the $120 pledge level they will have included 22 level 1 SecFor card tokens. Then they gave us only 6 miniatures in a stretch goal. This stands out as incongruent in my mind. Why only 6, if they thought I would need as many as 11 with just the base game? And they've said that the 2 games were designed to supplement each other, so I've effectively got 10 level 2 and level 3 SecFor, but only 6 level 1? Level 1 will be who you'll see the most of until you elevate the threat level.

I'm not trying to down them, or hold a beef. But I don't see the symmetry of this KS. As they are trying to entice the dollars out of my wallet, I'm simply not feeling it yet. I really hope that they have something up there sleeve, as they've said they do. I don't believe that they thought $300k was their goal. They have repeatedly said they have all the awesome stuff coming up, not yet shown. And they have SGs out to $400k. My saying they have lackluster SGs, or this isn't attractive yet isn't saying that all those backers are stupid or foolish or anything. It's just saying that it isn't a "must purchase NOW" thing. Personally, I think the Merc SGs are good, they are upgrading the "heroes" the players will use. The other stuff has been mostly misses from my perspective. Those who think that they're doing well have backed, and that is good. But we hit a real slow stretch, and the discussion has turned to hoping they energize this project to garner more backers and get the momentum back. They can do this by improving the base game with SecFor figures and more civilians.

All my own opinion and view, and I've enjoyed the crosstalk and other viewpoints expressed in this thread. That's what is great about this forum, we seem to have a very good cross-section of viewpoints and extremes.

Nicely stated.

I've just been reading a lot of negativity towards them, like they're doing something wrong. They seem to be doing alright. If the KS was to end today, I would probably leave my pledge where it is (the $120 mark), because I think there is pretty good value there, and I like the minis and the game concepts (except the dog - I think the dog is really stupid). But I'm also new to MERCS. So from my POV, everything from this point on is totally gravy.

God Bless America, where if you're if you disagree with something you're automaticaly a (hater, bigot, racist, etc).

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I prefer to see a game be good by its own merit.

If Recon becomes known as "the game were you can get cheaper miniatures for Mercs" then it has failed, I would rather hear a good review next year from the dice tower than a "why did they even bother review".

God I hope you don't let Tom Vassel be a major factor in your game buying decisions. :-p He's a very nice man, but openly wears some absurd game-design biases on his sleeve which render his opinion near-moot if you happen to also enjoy miniatures games. :-p

Also, as the models are true-scale, I think they look better in real life than garishly blown up. I played a Sedafu vs. Greeks (forgot their faction name) game yesterday at the FLGS and thought everything looked beautiful painted up.

A quick question on the campaign: With the Myth crossovers, you're getting 2 figures right? 1 for Myth, and 1 to play in Recon? Just want to make sure I'm tracking the right stuff.

Also: Has anyone heard, are they going to include the one pager cards for Solo play in the expansion packs, or are they added into the $10 add-on, which only shows the two base Recon boxes one pagers?

Thanks for anybody that knows or is tracking this.