If they do the resculpt on the terrain base it does indicate it is being done more for the table top game than for the office clearing board game.
As for hitting 3k backers? I can see it happening. That would be about 850 from where they are now. Assuming 25 backers a day for the next couple of weeks that would add 350, meaning they would need to add 500 or so the last 3-4 days. If each of those 350 pledge an average of 150, they add $52,500 to the campaign, which means they enter the last 3-4 days at over 400k.
I think it will,.... There has been basically zero promotion up to this point,....
It has also been an unusually long campaign,... Due precisely to the fact that they have show promos planned at Adepticon and PaxEast.
What the did with MYTH was very similar,... The show promos, beefed up adds,... And then the cross promo with KD:M were all instrumental in the last week increase and then the final days madness.
This thing is a long way from over,.... And still way out pacing MYTH,..... During this period of MYTH there were plenty of well intentioned folks saying that it might not even make 300k.
The HUGE difference between this and Myth is momentum. Myth never had the days under 5K and less than 20 new pledges this has had. Yes, it did not have the initial spike this project does, but it consistently did better on a daily basis than this one is if you don't count that initial spike.
It's a post made by Mercs before the KS in the Myth comments it did show some arrogance on their part competition is competition regardless of genre and well those other projects that aren't competition are now ahead of them.
Also the more I see of Recon and it's design the more I wonder about the Sci-Fi tag itself A lot of it feels more modern era than sci-fi to me.
Creator MERCS Miniatures on Feb 27
@Davinh Our thinking is along the same line. The competition out there is Fantasy. There is no Sci-Fi to compete with and (in our opinion) no KS right now is controlling the marketplace. Yes, there are some big names... but I think we have earned the right to be called a big name. The current KS seem to be rather slow and the momentum uninspired. And as you said, there will always be competition; right now, however, there is no competition in our genre.
If the competition comes down to the best product and minis, I think we win hands down. If it comes down to the best game, we'll have rules and videos available day one for you to make that decision.
We'll reevaluate over the weekend and make a decision early next week.
All the testers playing the game LOVE it. I think it will surprise people on the fence...our stretch goals are pretty good too .
DaveC wrote: It's a post made by Mercs before the KS in the Myth comments it did show some arrogance on their part competition is competition regardless of genre and well those other projects that aren't competition are now ahead of them.
Also the more I see of Recon and it's design the more I wonder about the Sci-Fi tag itself A lot of it feels more modern era than sci-fi to me.
Creator MERCS Miniatures on Feb 27
@Davinh Our thinking is along the same line. The competition out there is Fantasy. There is no Sci-Fi to compete with and (in our opinion) no KS right now is controlling the marketplace. Yes, there are some big names... but I think we have earned the right to be called a big name. The current KS seem to be rather slow and the momentum uninspired. And as you said, there will always be competition; right now, however, there is no competition in our genre.
If the competition comes down to the best product and minis, I think we win hands down. If it comes down to the best game, we'll have rules and videos available day one for you to make that decision.
We'll reevaluate over the weekend and make a decision early next week.
All the testers playing the game LOVE it. I think it will surprise people on the fence...our stretch goals are pretty good too .
I hadn't seen that comment until now...
Having every playtester currently playing your game is usually a bad sign. It shows that the people you have playtesting it really aren't the people that should be playtesting it...
I'm not sure you got the meaning of their post,..... I don't think that they mean that all the play testers are currently playing that game,.....
They mean that each of the people that have play tested it "love" it,...
Also,.. I think this quote was a bit blown out of proportion,... We can debate whether or not it was right to launch now,... And in the end, we will know that,... But everyone goes around talking about how they said that there's "no competition",... But clearly they are talking about in their genre (yeah, we can debate that wisdom as well).
Others have labeled it arrogance. They talk about their minis,... And I think they are right (in the board game box realm,... These are the best I've seen),..... And when they talk about the game,... They don't say that it's better than everyone's else's,.... They say,.. Check it out and decide for your self.
On a side note,.... Yeah, it is not sci fi ,... They have called in "near future" in the past, and I think that is a better description. There are no drastic technologies and nothing supernatural.
I feel most (if not all) of the non megacon aligned people saw it as arrogance, it probably says something about the message, the fact that the concerns and not the response gets validated (unfortunately) means they probably overestimated their popularity.
Still plenty of time for them to shape up and make this a success.
A "big name" would NEVER release that Myth rule book. They printed thousands of copies of a 60 page full color book that nobody outside of their immediate friends and families had copy edited much less attempted to use for play. The primary thing the Recon rule book they've previewed has going for it is that it's so much simpler than Myth's. Maybe some of their NDA signing play testers will rewrite it for them, but otherwise expecting much more than a nice mini collection here is being very optimistic in my opinion.
Long time lurker - 2nd time poster.
I was a backer of Myth but I was taken aback by Megacon's confidence. As an international backer, there is little chance for me to judge for myself if Myth is a good as they claim. I've mixed feelings hearing that the rulebook is naff but I should be issued with an updated one.
When Recon launched I backed immediately but I soon got cold feet during the stretch goals. One question I asked never got answered. Since I'm only a fan of the 1 core box but several of the paid expansions could there be a way of pledging enough to cover the stretch goals, I.e a $120 pledge equivalent. I assumed not.
I could be tempted back, considering how much time still remains.
yamato wrote:You know, everyone reads things differently, So I'd bet the truth is somewhere between what the fan and the doubter believes upon reading.
Creator MERCS Miniatures on Feb 27
@Davinh Our thinking is along the same line. The competition out there is Fantasy. There is no Sci-Fi to compete with and (in our opinion) no KS right now is controlling the marketplace. Yes, there are some big names... but I think we have earned the right to be called a big name. The current KS seem to be rather slow and the momentum uninspired. And as you said, there will always be competition; right now, however, there is no competition in our genre.
If the competition comes down to the best product and minis, I think we win hands down. If it comes down to the best game, we'll have rules and videos available day one for you to make that decision.
We'll reevaluate over the weekend and make a decision early next week.
All the testers playing the game LOVE it.I think it will surprise people on the fence...our stretch goals are pretty good too .
**All highlights are by me.**
I agree with you, everyone reads things differently. But I don't see how you could read these highlighted parts differently. They think they've earned the right to be called a big name because they had one successful KS, that they then completely bungled the writing of the rules. They think they win hands down in the miniatures department? I wouldn't say so. I think they have comparable figures to other games, KS or otherwise. But they don't blow the competition away by any means. IF all they meant was currently running KS's, that's rather shortsighted, and not what I compare figures and sculpts and quality against at all.
They have sprinkled what, 5 videos now over almost 3 weeks. So they didn't have videos available day one. Poor planning on their part.
As to the last part, the only surprise is that Mercs haven't realized that all of us fence sitters don't think their SGs are pretty good. Especially not really good, as they now think they are. Unspectacular is what I'll go with. Uninspired is unfair, as people familiar with the Mercs world really like the House 9 Saboteur. However, from an outside viewpoint, of someone with zero knowledge or experience of Mercs, none of these SGs are really impressive as far as the game Recon goes. With Arcadia Quest or Super Dungeon Explore, all the SGs and add-ons really added something to the game itself. All the expansion packs here add a new team that can be played, but I can't mix and match heroes, so all these expansions have far less useability. They also aren't upgrading the base game here, as far as the cards, tokens or figures. I'm hoping beyond hope that if I decide to pledge, that I can purchase more SecFor 1 figures, as 6 just doesn't cut it.
I guess it just feels like they are smug. They are offering prior Mercs players a great deal to get a ton of the figures in Plastic, and their Colossus rescuplt even hints towards that. But they aren't making Recon a great value for me to qualify it as a "must have".
It may be a good deal for merc players to rebuy their metal collection in plastic, if they reach the streachgoals to unlock them.
But this is irrelevant, or it should be since this is a boardgame project not a "lets make Mercs miniatures in plastic format" kickstarter.
Speaking of unlocking stuff -5 backers and 1k$ so far today... there is enough time, there are enough options, there are ideas, will there be willingness to do them and more importantly will there be enough momentum to support it?
Downward trends in either backers or dollars make me uneasy. I can't help being influenced by popular opinion. Backers attract backers. I imagine that losing backers casts doubt if the project offers a good return.
But Mercs seem to think this is a hiking expedition, and this is a valley that was expected. Good thing it isn't a KS...
It does happen from time to time with Kickstarters, whats suprising is that this campaign has gone into the red several times already. Each time though at the end of the day they've gotten back into the positives.
But Mercs seem to think this is a hiking expedition, and this is a valley that was expected. Good thing it isn't a KS...
It does happen from time to time with Kickstarters, whats suprising is that this campaign has gone into the red several times already. Each time though at the end of the day they've gotten back into the positives.
Very true, I am not downing this, merely dissatisfied with the company. They don't even react to the negative flow...so they also aren't responsible for the bounce back on all the negative days...merely the backers.
Pulling a pledge at this point just seems like bad strategy to me. If you are unhappy with the reward levels/stretch goals, It doesn't hurt to let the pledge ride until the last day. If you leave it in, then it goes towards pushing the rewards to a more satisfactory level. When you pull the pledge in a struggling campaign you're just going to hurt any momentum it does have.
I think that if those that dropped over the last 3-4 days had stayed in, we'd probably be almost at the next SG and starting to build momentum into the final funding climb already.
Of course the current set of drops today could have been from people artificially inflating their pledges to get to the $350,000 surprise. Which is also kind of a jerky thing to do.
CaulynDarr wrote: Pulling a pledge at this point just seems like bad strategy to me. If you are unhappy with the reward levels/stretch goals, It doesn't hurt to let the pledge ride until the last day. If you leave it in, then it goes towards pushing the rewards to a more satisfactory level. When you pull the pledge in a struggling campaign you're just going to hurt any momentum it does have.
I think that if those that dropped over the last 3-4 days had stayed in, we'd probably be almost at the next SG and starting to build momentum into the final funding climb already.
Of course the current set of drops today could have been from people artificially inflating their pledges to get to the $350,000 surprise. Which is also kind of a jerky thing to do.
What other options do dissatisfied backers actually have though? There is a thread here and several on Board Game Geek debating the lack of value from this KS. People have sent PM's to the project creater or looked for answers in the comments section. Most of this have been for naught, the creators seem to be happy with just sticking their fingers in their ears and humming loudly.
I don't think what were getting is a horrible deal, but for the return I my investment I'll probably end up pulling my pledge and giving it to a smaller company rather then help out one of the self proclaimed big boys.
CaulynDarr wrote: Pulling a pledge at this point just seems like bad strategy to me. If you are unhappy with the reward levels/stretch goals, It doesn't hurt to let the pledge ride until the last day. If you leave it in, then it goes towards pushing the rewards to a more satisfactory level. When you pull the pledge in a struggling campaign you're just going to hurt any momentum it does have.
I think that if those that dropped over the last 3-4 days had stayed in, we'd probably be almost at the next SG and starting to build momentum into the final funding climb already.
Of course the current set of drops today could have been from people artificially inflating their pledges to get to the $350,000 surprise. Which is also kind of a jerky thing to do.
It takes all kinds of things for people to pull their pledges. However, if everyone left their pledge in, then Mercs would NEVER get the hint that there might be something wrong. This might be enough to give them a reality check that Mercs the game isn't a marketplace name, that Recon isn't a superb product on its own, and that they've really pulled a major boner with the Myth rulebook.
Will they make this game? Yes. Could they make it much better? Yes, but show no inclination to make Recon the Game better. Is this really a vehicle for Mercs migrating to plastics? Seems like it with every other update.
When they added Robocop, they said they had some more intermediate SGs. I don't really count this reveal at $350k as a SG. But they don't seem interested in actually driving up the backers. They are content....which mystifies me.
What other options do dissatisfied backers actually have though? There is a thread here and several on Board Game Geek debating the lack of value from this KS. People have sent PM's to the project creater or looked for answers in the comments section. Most of this have been for naught, the creators seem to be happy with just sticking their fingers in their ears and humming loudly.
I don't think what were getting is a horrible deal, but for the return I my investment I'll probably end up pulling my pledge and giving it to a smaller company rather then help out one of the self proclaimed big boys.
Salacious Greed wrote:
It takes all kinds of things for people to pull their pledges. However, if everyone left their pledge in, then Mercs would NEVER get the hint that there might be something wrong. This might be enough to give them a reality check that Mercs the game isn't a marketplace name, that Recon isn't a superb product on its own, and that they've really pulled a major boner with the Myth rulebook.
Will they make this game? Yes. Could they make it much better? Yes, but show no inclination to make Recon the Game better. Is this really a vehicle for Mercs migrating to plastics? Seems like it with every other update.
When they added Robocop, they said they had some more intermediate SGs. I don't really count this reveal at $350k as a SG. But they don't seem interested in actually driving up the backers. They are content....which mystifies me.
It's not like the deal ever got worse. Just didn't grow at a very fast rate.
This kickstarter does have version 2.0 problems. Where their efforts to do things better end up causing issues. Though I don't see them as being as serious as others. I've backed some projects that had really good management during the KS, only to continuously disappoint after the fact(I'm looking at you Relic Knights and Robotech). Myth hit pretty close to the projected ship date. That's a big incentive for me to back this as I had sworn off kick starers after those two disasters.
Oh man, tell me about it. I dodged the bullet with Relic Knights, but got bent over the barrel with Robotech. I'm not so leery about them shipping late, this just doesn't seem to have the depth of play that Zombicide does as a board game. Their gameplay video was a bit rough, as the group was boisterous and fun, but didn't really seem to know how to play. Then they lost. Not the greatest video to get people interested in the game. Also, all the Mercs units are great, but you can't interchange 1 merc into the group, or let everyone pick who they want to play. You have to pick a faction, and someone will probably get stuck with a class they don't like. So all the factions here aren't a big positive for Recon. But that seems to be the major direction for the company, not improving Recon the basic game. Well, 17 more days, we'll see if they turn it around.
Salacious Greed wrote: Oh man, tell me about it. I dodged the bullet with Relic Knights, but got bent over the barrel with Robotech. I'm not so leery about them shipping late, this just doesn't seem to have the depth of play that Zombicide does as a board game. Their gameplay video was a bit rough, as the group was boisterous and fun, but didn't really seem to know how to play. Then they lost. Not the greatest video to get people interested in the game. Also, all the Mercs units are great, but you can't interchange 1 merc into the group, or let everyone pick who they want to play. You have to pick a faction, and someone will probably get stuck with a class they don't like. So all the factions here aren't a big positive for Recon. But that seems to be the major direction for the company, not improving Recon the basic game. Well, 17 more days, we'll see if they turn it around.
The updated gameplay video is a better. It's one guy running it single player, and he tries to explain why he does things a bit. Much of the game is randomly generated, and they really should have scripted their demo videos. I think it would have made the game play look a bit clearer.
As for mixing and matching mercs, I've found that groups that regularly play these types of co-op games are very open to adjusting to the right level of difficulty. For instance, Sentinels of the Multiverse is pretty popular with my group, and we completely ignore the official FAQ when it comes to resolving game effects. We find that using a ccg style FIFO resolution stack makes the game more challenging as opposed to their suggestion of resolving events in any order we choose. Altering the rules in a co-op game isn't the zero-sum situation it tends to be in a game like 40K.
There are also 8 (eventually maybe 10) MERCS per squad to chose from,... So it at least gives some options for people to chose from.
I'm most anxious to see how the factions play differently,... In TT game they are VERY different,... But I have a feeling that they will be less so in this,...
KemVar vid is said to be in editing and EU shooting today.
They have not quite talked much about the special actions (rules sheets) I'm not sure if these are specific to the faction or just the base box or mission box,... I guess we'll have to wait and see.
yamato wrote:You know, everyone reads things differently, So I'd bet the truth is somewhere between what the fan and the doubter believes upon reading.
Creator MERCS Miniatures on Feb 27
@Davinh Our thinking is along the same line. The competition out there is Fantasy. There is no Sci-Fi to compete with and (in our opinion) no KS right now is controlling the marketplace. Yes, there are some big names... but I think we have earned the right to be called a big name. The current KS seem to be rather slow and the momentum uninspired. And as you said, there will always be competition; right now, however, there is no competition in our genre.
If the competition comes down to the best product and minis, I think we win hands down. If it comes down to the best game, we'll have rules and videos available day one for you to make that decision.
We'll reevaluate over the weekend and make a decision early next week.
All the testers playing the game LOVE it.I think it will surprise people on the fence...our stretch goals are pretty good too .
**All highlights are by me.**
I agree with you, everyone reads things differently. But I don't see how you could read these highlighted parts differently.
That kind of makes my point for me,... When you highlight and take things out of context,... You put your own spin on them,....
I put my own spin on it as well,..... So I back off of defending it and saying that everyone else is wrong. Far from it,.... They surely need someone a bit more skilled on the PR side.
But Mercs seem to think this is a hiking expedition, and this is a valley that was expected. Good thing it isn't a KS...
When you compare to Myth, that never had a negative day, and in fact the lowest day was over 4k, and most days were 5-6k until the last couple, and they had over 20 new backers each day. In short, Myth didn't have a valley. It was pretty steady then had a rapid climb. When Mercs uses that final climb as their normal/assumption for this, they are ignoring the differences in day to day performance.
Usually, yes. Most KS companies will take more funds after the KS period, even allowing paypal.
The downfall to that is the funds don;t add to the KS campaign and thus not toward any stretch goals. For the company, the benefit is that the money does not go through KS and they don't have to pay out 10% to Amazon.
DaveC wrote: It's a post made by Mercs before the KS in the Myth comments it did show some arrogance on their part competition is competition regardless of genre and well those other projects that aren't competition are now ahead of them.
Also the more I see of Recon and it's design the more I wonder about the Sci-Fi tag itself A lot of it feels more modern era than sci-fi to me.
Creator MERCS Miniatures on Feb 27
@Davinh Our thinking is along the same line. The competition out there is Fantasy. There is no Sci-Fi to compete with and (in our opinion) no KS right now is controlling the marketplace. Yes, there are some big names... but I think we have earned the right to be called a big name. The current KS seem to be rather slow and the momentum uninspired. And as you said, there will always be competition; right now, however, there is no competition in our genre.
If the competition comes down to the best product and minis, I think we win hands down. If it comes down to the best game, we'll have rules and videos available day one for you to make that decision.
We'll reevaluate over the weekend and make a decision early next week.
All the testers playing the game LOVE it. I think it will surprise people on the fence...our stretch goals are pretty good too .
Lets address that elephant in the room, this kickstarter is a bad deal, for what it is supposed to be.
First of all, lets see the product itself
Spoiler:
For 60$ you get 12 different sculpts, 20 miniatures of the 43 needed according to the creator, two categories of them, the most common and more numerous, are not represented by anything other than a counter, as I said several times before, the industry standard has been shaped to either have only the heroes represented as miniatures in games like Talisman, or for dungeon crawlers go full miniatures, "light wargames" or simpler boardgame wargames of late also come with full miniature representation, anyway FFG a really big boy in the boardgame industry got huge flack when they released Decent 2.0 with tokens representing their lieutenants and it was a much anticipated game essentially a second version of the really popular decent and did all the "good things" like including cards for all the models from the previous series.
If you care about the boardgame, then it is a big issue, both as value of the game and its long term survivability in the genre, if you see it as a discount to get miniatures for Mercs its a good deal, 2 5 men squads for 60$ instead of 65$ plus the "wastage" or "bonus" of having a half baked dungeon crawler tossed in it, but this is not what this kickstarter is supposed to be about right? I am mystified on why they do not pass the kickstarter money on the core product to make it worthwhile when it reaches retail, I was not that critical about it on Myth because A it was a side thing I backed, heavily in the end, but a side thing never the less and I assumed they would do so as this is what most do in kickstarter (they are the only ones who do not do it to my knowledge), I do not want to hear cost excuses, the real cost is making the sculpts and the molds for them, after that its pennies added.
The stretch goals are bad, the first one in particular for 70k (funding at 50k), you get 2 sculpts and 6 minis, that should have been in the box anyway and not even 11 as the game designers feel there should be, one should wonder why two sculpts need more than the game itself, all expansions (barring one) are payed add ons even thought the stretch goals for them are particularly fat, 25-50k for half a game whose funding goal delivers 4 times as much as the expansion.
While on payed add ons, what you are expected to pay to get the boxed game in the acceptable components wise category far outshines the 'free stuff" and no attempts to make stretch goals and fold them into the game, making it a better product has been attempted.
A side subject is it does not feel sci fi at all, near modern at best, the Mercs themselves look so out of place in the boardgame environment it is puzzling.
Communication is bad and reaction is bad, many feel their questions, valid or not have been ignored, fans are left to brush aside whoever does not walk the "extremely positive about it" line, its been what, 5 days and the 1,5k backers vacant places have not been filled and almost each day we have a negative drop in backers and pledges, which is barely covered by the end of the day, if one looks closely too the ones leaving were heavily invested too.
At the start of this kickstarter I was wondering why they do not grasp the opportunity to bring their MERCs sculpts up to date, many are almost a decade old and some are not that good, not abd, but not the best out there, now I am concerned about more basic things.
Long rant, maybe, but I would like to see this succeed and pointing out what I see as flaws is what I can do at the moment.
I think criticizing the amount of plastic in the box is dubious, if only because the more product there is in the box, the higher cost the box will be at retail.
If they have a target $$ they want to set as the MSRP, then it makes sense not to add EVERYTHING into the box. They did that with MYTH. And if you go into it with that understanding, I think it makes a whole lot of sense.
cincydooley wrote: I think criticizing the amount of plastic in the box is dubious, if only because the more product there is in the box, the higher cost the box will be at retail.
If they have a target $$ they want to set as the MSRP, then it makes sense not to add EVERYTHING into the box. They did that with MYTH. And if you go into it with that understanding, I think it makes a whole lot of sense.
I have to agree with you 100% Cincy. Except that right now, compared to comparable "board games" going to market from KS right now, this game feels like $60. But it won't leave the shelves in most gamestores even for $48 on its own merit. So, Mercs isn't even giving us a discount on the two games. If they plan on this being $75 or $80, they need to get this game comparable to SDE, Shadows of Brimstone or something else. As far as the KS goes, if this is at no discount, that they REALLY want me to pay them RETAIL cost, they need to double the miniatures they are fronting to even get my attention then. If they want me to get in at the $200 level, they need to froth at the mouth about all of these expansion kits and more than double the pennies on the dollar miniatures in the KS.
Right now, they keep telling me how great their SGs are while standing in front of a barrel they want me to bend over. RRT already has me over the barrel, and that one was too good to pass up. This one not even worth the $1 to get emails from them...while I agree with some of what Psychotic is saying, I'm not seeing any of the KS goodness that Myth got and all the Mercs fans keep talking about. I think their name change to Megacon might be rather poignant given this KS and their smugness.
Well, I think this marks pretty close to 24 hours with a zero sum balance after the minuses earlier today.
I will totally agree that it is a different animal,... Everyone wants to compare it to MYTH,.... How many minis etc.
I'm sure that the costs of more distinct molds is sure to change the economics quite a bit.
The other criticism about altering the base box contents,... I know that in MYTH the success definitely played into upgrading the component quality (board type, linen card finishes, etc.) even though they did not add any minis to the basic retail box beyond those stated in the KS,... in Recon they have said that they are hoping to produce the MERC heroes in a different plastic (all the other stuff just like MYTH),... But who know what that requires,... Is that a more expensive mold making process?
I guess the economics of these games is beyond my familiarity. What I can tell is that for whatever reason, this is a game that is outside of the mold of MYTH and it just doesn't measure up when you want to make a direct comparison,.... Fair or otherwise
I am not expecting them to match Myth in quantity, I am expecting them to deliver a game that fits the minimum expectations for a boardgame of its kind.
When I say pass the things from Myth to the retail product, I am not expecting them to pass the entire model count produced from the kickstarter, that would be insane to demand, or expect somebody to demand, but adding a few more minions (not much), a second boss for variety, the bag which is somewhat important or the 3D lairs, would make it a far better product, including the alternative sex heroes would be a nice touch.
How much more would extra secfor models cost in terms of production? I mean, honestly, if they were tooled, you could just include them in the box for minimal increase in production costs. I'm not sure, but does anyone know what the RRP for this product is likely to be?
Also, have they addressed the elephant in the room? Will international backers suddenly get shafted on this like they did for Myth?
I was hoping to latch onto another person's pledge like some kind of noble kickstarter parasite, but I guess MERCS just hate the idea of making money, so nope. Well, maybe for the drones. But no Robo makes me sad.
drazz wrote: Usually, yes. Most KS companies will take more funds after the KS period, even allowing paypal.
The downfall to that is the funds don;t add to the KS campaign and thus not toward any stretch goals. For the company, the benefit is that the money does not go through KS and they don't have to pay out 10% to Amazon.
10%??
Where did you get that? Amazon & Paypal fees are very similar.
Paypal transaction fees
Spoiler:
The standard rate for receiving payments for goods and services is 3.4%.
I don't think what were getting is a horrible deal, but for the return I my investment I'll probably end up pulling my pledge and giving it to a smaller company rather then help out one of the self proclaimed big boys.
I need the money from my pulled MERCS pledge to buy Games Workshop products.
True story.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sining wrote: How much more would extra secfor models cost in terms of production? I mean, honestly, if they were tooled, you could just include them in the box for minimal increase in production costs. I'm not sure, but does anyone know what the RRP for this product is likely to be?
Also, have they addressed the elephant in the room? Will international backers suddenly get shafted on this like they did for Myth?
Look at the number of add-on expansions and such. You don't need to ask them - you already know the answer.
cincydooley wrote: I think criticizing the amount of plastic in the box is dubious, if only because the more product there is in the box, the higher cost the box will be at retail.
If they have a target $$ they want to set as the MSRP, then it makes sense not to add EVERYTHING into the box. They did that with MYTH. And if you go into it with that understanding, I think it makes a whole lot of sense.
I have to agree with you 100% Cincy. Except that right now, compared to comparable "board games" going to market from KS right now, this game feels like $60. But it won't leave the shelves in most gamestores even for $48 on its own merit. So, Mercs isn't even giving us a discount on the two games. If they plan on this being $75 or $80, they need to get this game comparable to SDE, Shadows of Brimstone or something else. As far as the KS goes, if this is at no discount, that they REALLY want me to pay them RETAIL cost, they need to double the miniatures they are fronting to even get my attention then. If they want me to get in at the $200 level, they need to froth at the mouth about all of these expansion kits and more than double the pennies on the dollar miniatures in the KS.
Right now, they keep telling me how great their SGs are while standing in front of a barrel they want me to bend over. RRT already has me over the barrel, and that one was too good to pass up. This one not even worth the $1 to get emails from them...while I agree with some of what Psychotic is saying, I'm not seeing any of the KS goodness that Myth got and all the Mercs fans keep talking about. I think their name change to Megacon might be rather poignant given this KS and their smugness.
Well, I think this marks pretty close to 24 hours with a zero sum balance after the minuses earlier today.
Another comparable story to look at is what happened to Privateer Press and their Level 7 line.
Level 7 Escape was a Board Game produced by a Minatuers Company with out any minis, it was entierly counters. It disappointed alot of people, coupled with a horrible rulebook it turned alot of people off. Fast forward to Level 7 Omega Protocal and you have a good game with good minatures, but so many people got burned by Escape that Omega Protocal doesn't sell worth a damn. Ultimatly this is a small industry and Gamers have a long memory.
I need the money from my pulled MERCS pledge to buy Games Workshop products.
True story.
Heh. Good reason.
For me its the Mierce Kickstarter. I'm seriously debating pulling my MERCS pledge, not because of all the Eeyore-ish reasons documented in this thread, but because I'm probably pulling all my other pledges from _all_ other projects right now to funnel into Mierce. I already dropped a few other projects, this is one of the last ones remaining.
I'm not planning on pulling my pledge or anything. I like the concept enough that I'm happy with the current reward levels.
However, with the disappointing day yesterday and today not looking any better, I'm starting to wonder what's up with the Mercs guys. They've been really quiet(more than usual) and haven't even posted the videos they where promising yesterday.
You can't really call this a valley anymore. Unless you are talking about Death Valley. I hope they do something soon, or else they might face a backer implosion. If they don't make the 400K SG in the next few days, I don't think the deal will be good enough to stimulate a final funding boom a the end.
Alpharius wrote: Is that Amazon fee in addition to the 5% of the project they get anyway?
Maybe the 5% cut, then various other fees (Credit Cards?) add up to close to 10%?
How would Amazon get 5% of the project?
Kickstarter uses Amazon Payments for credit card processing.
Yes. For which Amazon charges 3.4% + a fixed fee per transaction (some of which, in turn, is used to pay the credit card companies, I would assume).
Credit Card fees are included in Amazons fee, similar to how credit cards charge any merchant offering payment by credit card (though presumably, Amazon, being the etailer-giant it is, has a nicer deal with them than the stores in your local mall).
And that is identical to the fee Paypal charges, whether on Indiegogo, the GW/Mantic/Wyrd webstore or, hypothetically, on Kickstarter, if Kickstarter would go Indiegogo and switched to Paypal.
If your project is successfully funded, Kickstarter will apply a 5% fee to the funds raised, and Amazon will apply credit card processing fees (between 3-5%). If funding isn't successful, there are no fees.
was common knowledge?
Unless your confusion was because I admittedly wasn't real clear when I said "they" (meaning Kickstarter here) and was just looking to find out the entire amount that a creator won't be getting.
Apologies for any confusion I may have inadvertently caused.
Drazz, which was the additional post I quoted, said that paying Paypal, project founders avoid the 10% charged by Amazon.
In response to which I responded that (a) Amazon-fees are much lower, and (b) there are no savings relative to Amazon, as their fees are identical to Paypal.
After that, you replied...
Is that Amazon fee in addition to the 5% of the project they get anyway?
... and in the context of said discussion, I was assuming that "they" refers to the subject in the sentence, as the whole discussion revolved around a 10% "Amazon-fee" as per Drazz quote.
So presumably Drazz also meant "5% to Kickstarter" when he said "10% to Amazon"? And you meant "Kickstarter+Amazon" when you said "Amazon" in reference to Drazz claim of "10% to Amazon" by which he meant "5% to Kickstarter"?
So to be not "difficult", for 100.000 GBP from 1000 backers on Kickstarter, the funds will be split as follows:
- 5.000, - GBP to Kickstarter.com (5%)
- 3.600,- GBP to Amazon (and Credit Card Companies) .. e.g. 3.4% of 100.000 + 1000x 0.20 GBP transaction fixed fee.
- 91.400,- GBP to the project creator
The same 100.000 GBP from 100 backers through Paypal post-campaign will be split as follows:
- 3.600,- GBP to Paypal (and Credit Card Companies) .. e.g. 3.4% of 100.000 + 1000x 0.20 GBP transaction fixed fee.
- 96.400,- GBP to the project creator
correct?
Also, for fun, a successful fixed-funding campaign on Indiegogo with 100.000 GBP by 1000 backers would be the following.
- 4.000, - GBP to Indiegogo (4%)
- 3.600,- GBP to Paypal (and Credit Card Companies) .. e.g. 3.4% of 100.000 + 1000x 0.20 GBP transaction fixed fee.
- 92.400,- GBP to the project creator
I edited out the 'difficult' part because I was causing much of the confusion!
At the end of the day, I think we can use 10% as a good round number when subtracting out all the fees and what not that a campaign is subjected to after it ends...
Wow, didn't mean to create a huge debate. Only point I was making was that Amazon takes a cut during the KS; that's the price of using their creation--Kickstarter.
By adding to the pledge after the KS, any funds go directly to the company, without an Amazon cut.
drazz wrote: Wow, didn't mean to create a huge debate. Only point I was making was that Amazon takes a cut during the KS; that's the price of using their creation--Kickstarter.
By adding to the pledge after the KS, any funds go directly to the company, without an Amazon cut.
Umm.. no.
The funds do not go directly go to the company that created the project. Yes, you cut out Amazon, but Paypal takes an identical cut instead. So there is no saving there for the creator.
10% is a good rule of thumb for the overall project. For the specific "saving" of "post-campaign-Paypal" vs. "in-the-Kickstarter-campaign", the savings are precisely 5%, because the fee structure of Paypal and Amazon is identical.
Part 2...... I hope that part three sheds some more light,... Right now,... I really want to see what the heightened security level will do,... Do higher SecFor forces come busting out of the stairs and elevators?
And the negative trend continues and their quote is
We also agree with this. We know what we expect from this KS. We are still very pleased with it.
We also have some surprises in the hopper still.
that is in reply to somebody saying that perhaps its the theme of the game that is the problem (or the Myth rulebook) and that it maybe will skyrocket the last few days.
I wonder if they are delusioned, blind to the reality, or if they prefer to get it this way than cut their margins and make it a better deal.
Or do they really believe it will magically fly in the last few days?
I read it that they're happy with the people they have, and don't care to speak to the rest of the public about issues brought up.
I do find it humorous that one of the people commenting on the new update believes that Recon will eclipse Myth. Unless they do an about face and dump the same levels of miniatures into this, they have no hope of that. Before the last 36 hours of effectively not moving from $355k, they may break $500k total. Guess we won't see any of their other surprises, as they don't seem to think they need any SGs between their current ones.
If they don't drastically change it, the only boost they will see is the one at the front, if ever.
The fact its 3 days now on negatives only to stabilize the last moment to the same number should be a clue on how close this is to become Thon.
None of the issues pointed out have been addressed, the funboys mob whoever tries to help, by bringing the hard truth in, the project is at best static if not in decline and the project creators waste time, patience and goodwill.
They have time with a bit over two weeks left. If this sits stagnant or has <5k days for the next few days they have the ability to adjust with some time to spare.
I don't have a lot of faith in their willingness to do so, but we'll see. I suspect they are putting out Myth fires and hoping they can wait those out before refocusing on this. Having said that, they've been seemingly unwilling to participate much on this one, and the vocal fans in the comments make it likely that Mercs gets to read all the hype and assume those few who complain or bring up questions/issues are not worth addressing.
I'd like to see some more action from them,... They seem to have responded in the past,....
I also think the slow pace of releasing the new videos and just more information is hurting this,....
Who knows,.. Maybe the videos that come will capture some more energy and wow factor,... Maybe the show promos and cross promos will work like they did in MYTH,.... Right now this is pretty discouraging.
There are clearly new people still coming on board,.... But there have been just as many PTPing,....
I guess we will see in the end,..... Early on, I thought that it would well outdo MYTH,.. Now, who knows. I think after Adepticon we will know which way this thing is going to go.
I love the models and the universe,.... And the game still looks to be cool,.... Though really waiting to see more vids! Fingers crossed
They seem unwilling to give the stuff that would make it a good deal, all expansion packs who would really make it a fantastic deal are to pay for, easy things to upgrade the deal like including the objective markers or the sentries in each pack or making the doors plastic are passed, the frees stuff in stretch goals are either irrelevant like the dog, or things that most sane people would expect to see in the basic box, so they are not making it a deal, only moving the core product in the acceptable area and most of them have not been reached yet, I count only 4 streachgoals who can be viewed as adding to the packs value and only one stretchgoal who can be viewed as inspired all of them oddly numbered (same amount of models at 25k and 15k, 40k for a single model?) and frankly most of the cost or the Mercs miniatures has already been payed since they are the old models with very few getting a resculpt.
Most of the things unlocked or to be payed for along with everything on 200$ pledge has little or no information on what it does, or why one should get it or even be excited about it, their communication overall is almost non existent and definitely uninformative, except if you cared to know about breakfast or dealing with ant infestation and their tone seems out of touch with reality.
The backers faith seems low as the backers numbers are either in decline or stale, the two big backers that left have not been replenished, a week now and I feel what remains is only the hard core and the few of us who keep despite the hardships, while at this stage the core should be about half of the backers.
I am not sure what on earth they think, or if they are so unwilling to cut the profit margins and make it useful.
I am also mystified why they do not make the core product something with legs to stand on.
And while I would understand they may need to address the Myth wildfire and it might have been a mistake to launch it before Myth was settled (despite been warned for it) this now IS a project they must put their attention and effort into it and not something in the back burner.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alpharius wrote: I don't think they're in danger of going full on THON here, but...
Spoiler:
They might want to start addressing things a bit more aggressively AND positively.
Not in danger yet, but if they keep it this way, I do not know at what point the tension will reach the structural break point and cause a full collapse.
Reading the comments, there is clearly nothing to worry about. All the bad days are the results of something called 'pledge trolls'. The bad numbers have nothing to do with either the way the project is being handled nor the perceived value of what is being offered.
CptJake wrote: Reading the comments, there is clearly nothing to worry about. All the bad days are the results of something called 'pledge trolls'. The bad numbers have nothing to do with either the way the project is being handled nor the perceived value of what is being offered.
It does make you wonder if just one guy is monitoring Recon, and he's the same guy both posting updates and making remarks in the comments section. AND he's telling the rest of the team that everything is good. But surely everyone at that company looks at their own KS page at least once a day.
I'm at a complete loss as to how a small, struggling company doesn't want this to do better.
On a side note, as we've been talking about the core game on this, and comparing it to them not changing the basic game in Myth: Is/Would anyone buy the basic Myth game as it will go to market? Is it worth the retail price?
Unless they've got real problems cash flow wise from underestimating what Myth would cost ?
If (and I'm speculating here) they did it could be a struggle to keep their heads above water until the retail sales kick in
Which might mean they just can't afford to promise too much for this one as the KS funds might be not only paying for MERCs but also fixing funding problems from their previous effort (which was, as many have said, too good to miss).... not something they'd be free to admit or risk scaring off potential backers
On a side note, as we've been talking about the core game on this, and comparing it to them not changing the basic game in Myth: Is/Would anyone buy the basic Myth game as it will go to market? Is it worth the retail price?
I would like more variety in enemies and more eye candy stuff 3D like lairs to be honest to buy it at MSRP.
They are virtually unknown and the core box does not catch you, they have some good reviews from established reviewers though which does support them.
If (and I'm speculating here) they did it could be a struggle to keep their heads above water until the retail sales kick in
Which might mean they just can't afford to promise too much for this one as the KS funds might be not only paying for MERCs but also fixing funding problems from their previous effort (which was, as many have said, too good to miss).... not something they'd be free to admit or risk scaring off potential backers
I thought about it myself, but also heard that they reported a profit from Myth, so I am unsure, if that is the case, it would be even better for them to wait before launching this kickstarter, but it would also explain their eagerness to launch it, but because they moved to a bigger building ectr, I think they do not have immediate problems.
Well there are a few issues with that, first of all the first must finish and be delivered, the core product will be in my opinion problematic and possibly a slow mover, there is that goodwill loss and more importantly with the streath goals we have now, everybody that participated in this one, will feel used if the expansion have better streath goals.
Besides its half obvious their intention is to get the MERC minatures in plastic and this KS fails dramatically to deliver this even for the basic 4 factions.
On a side note, as we've been talking about the core game on this, and comparing it to them not changing the basic game in Myth: Is/Would anyone buy the basic Myth game as it will go to market? Is it worth the retail price?
Hate to quote BBG again, but I'd be wary...
Spoiler:
Hey guys, I just want to start off with a couple of disclaimers. I also don't know if this post should be in the review section or the general section.
1) I consider myself a board gamer (over someone who does table top miniatures) and this is my first dungeon crawler. The games I usually play are Betrayal at the House on the Hill, Mage Kingh the Board Game, 7 Wonders (and a nice collection of KS games coming in).
2) I don't regret backing the kickstarter (despite the problem with the rules)
3) I know the rules are getting rewritten before release, so I am not going to mention the quality as a problem, and the other problems I have with them may also be fixed by release.
---------
Time for my warnings. I have two problems, one I consider major, the other is a minor one based on personal preference.
The minor one first: Character progression is pretty slow. It takes a lot of play time (~6 hours) to actually get rewarded with a new card for your deck or a title. The only progression before that are items (which get discarded every ~2 hours or so [until you can get one of those ~6 hour rewards]). Also if you play with different gaming groups, it's annoying to remember what to save in between games, thankfully they did put a PDF that you can print out and write down what you need to remember. Again, this is just mostly a personal concern, and honestly not that big of a deal.
Now the major one. If the game we have currently (Wave 1 from the kickstarter) is the game that will be released at retail I warn that it feels incomplete. The following is a list of things that are mentioned in the rule book or cards, but not actually supplied in the base game (I may miss a couple of things):
1) 4 enemy types (Shamblers, Tailless, Iathi, Sycline). The base game only comes with Crawlers and Grubbers, with Captains for each.
- an extension: The Yardu miniboss has a faith recipe that "Raises 1 Souless". I assume that is an undead Captain, but their are none in the base game and we don't know it's stats. He also makes it easier for undead to resurrect, but again he is the only undead monster in the base game.
2) 3 types/rarity of cards (Journeyman Abilities, Master Abilities, Agent Abilities). We are teased of their existence but none come with the game. And there are only 5 Novice abilities.
3) Exotic gear (orange) [I think they called it exotic rarity in the manual]. The game only comes with starter (brown), green and blue gear cards (along with white gold and potion cards).
4) Boss levels 2-4 skulls. All are teased along with the terms "Novice Heroes, Journeyman Heroes, Master class Hero." Again those terms are not explained in any detail.
5) Spawn types: Sacrifice, Terrifying, Mystic, Pacifying, Ill-Fated, Shadow, Paranoid, Intelligent, Explosive, Rowdy, Reinforcing. All explained but in the default Darkness deck these types are not present.
6) Agents and Agent cards. Near boss level enemies that seem to give great rewards to the players, but none come in the game.
7) Slaugterfield Supplement Pack. Item cards specifically used only in the Slaughterfield game mode.
8) The Skald and Spriggan job tokens are supplied in the cardboard sheets but you need to buy their decks & mini separately.
9) No included bag to draw loot from, and baggies don't work because it's supposed to be blind.
10) Missing quests. There are quests in the game that have branching points, but there are multiple ones that just don't come with the 30 base quests.
Lucy Quest Chain: The Darkness Within, Connor’s Toy (a kickstarter exclusive if I recall)
Drums of the Wold Quest Chain: Go Away Violently
The Abbey’s Coffers Quest Chain: A Common Laborer
Further Quest problems: A Father's Greif quest spawns 4 Shamblers and 1 Soulless. Neither are in the base game.
-------------
So how much will it cost to buy these missing things at retail? It looks like more than double the cost of the game.
Unique add-ons (prices taken from the add on from the kickstarter campaign)
$20 Slaughterfield Supplement Pack
$15 Spriggan character (to be retooled as a druid for retail)
$15 Skald character
$25 Agents of Darkness
$20 Elemental Boss w/ Darkness Deck
$5 Treasure Bag
$10 Treasure Deck Expansion
$15 Quest Expansion 1
$25 6, 6x6 Tile supplements
$15 2 Cyclops Captains
$15 6 Cyclops minions
$15 6 Rats minions
$30 2 Rat captains, 10 rat minions
$15 6 elementals minions
$15 6 skeletons minions
------
$255 in unique add-ons. Technically it would most likely be more. 6 minions (for the Cyclops, rats, elementals, and skeletons are simply not enough to populate even the smallest tile).
Optional Add-ons. Not "necessary" to have "everything".
$15 Extra Base hero w/ deck (comes with opposite gender mini not in the base game) [there are 5 base heroes]
$5 Hero Card sleeves per hero type
$5 Regular card sleeves
$5 Item Card Sleeves
$15 Extra dice (10d10s, 6FD)
$35 Duplicate set of tiles that come with the base game
$8 6 Sculpted Lairs (1 of each type)
$15 6 Grubbers minions
$15 6 crawler minions (split between melee and ranged)
Things that were also unlocked but the retail prices are unknown.
Skeleton Captains
Elemental Captains
Skeleton Boss w/ Darkness deck
Orc Boss w/ Darkness deck
Rat Boss w/ Darkness deck
Cyclops Boss w/ Darkness deck
Fire Drake Boss w/ Darkness deck
Minotaur mini Boss
10 new world tiles
5 Slaughterfield specific tiles
Alternate gender heroes (besides having to buy a new hero deck)
And more things are being produced. There's already talk of a Myth expansion kickstarter in Q3 of this year.
-------------
All of the above does not reflect on the quality of the base game. The minis are pretty good (I'm no judge of minis to be honest). But I do think that the melee and ranged Crawler minis are too hard to tell apart at a glance. The melee ones have bigger arms, and the ranged ones have slightly bigger heads. Painting would most likely be the easiest solution to be able to tell them apart. It would have been nice if the Hero minis came pre painted, but again that's a small complaint. The grubber minis are pretty cool with 3 different variations of the melee minis. The mechanics of the game are also fun, and once the rules have been fixed it shouldn't be too hard to learn the game from the rulebook.
So don't get me wrong. I do like the game, and I think it's fun to play. I also think when I get all of the kickstarter stretch goals I will feel that I got good value for my money. But for an MRSP of $95 with $255+ of current extras (with more already being designed and produced) needed to have a "complete" game is extreme in my opinion.
I'm not against expansions, but usually they come out a year after the game is out and add a new mechanic/structure to the game, but should never be required to play. Both expansions for 7 Wonders added something new, but you can still play the base game without "missing" anything. MageKnight has a great expansion that I have left integrated since I got it, but even the creator says that the base game is still a stand-alone game.
-----
If you are a minis/tabletop person, I'm sure a lot of the above won't bother you. Spending $10-$20 here and there to get a new cool thing, and getting a chance to paint them. But if you consider yourself a boardgamer and want everything in one box expect to feel like you are missing a lot from the base game. Realize that if you want the "full experience" you'll have to shell out a lot of money (again prices are from the kickstarter I have no clue what they will be at retail). I wouldn't look at this as a board game, it's much closer to a tabletop game (loosely think "a card game version of dnd")
Again... it *sounds like* (caveats and all, possible changes to the final product, etc...,) that the retail-product is a bit the victim of the process of how they wrote the game "during" the Kickstarter (without, it seems, a clear idea of where they draw the "line"). The wrote the rules, quest, etc.., of their unlocked stretchgoals "into the game", but took the actual minis for it out again to get an affordable retail product.
Likewise, the expansions (e.g. the former stretch-goals) might not be watertight products in themselves, but be full of cross-references to other parts, etc..
Also, second Myth Kickstarter rumoured to be already in the making.... Lol.
As Myth feels incomplete the Recon will also feel Incomplete, even more so.
Also how bitter can the community be to flack SDE kickkstarter on not having secured EU shipping (yet), they feel as if they dance over a dead corpse....
Hmm would that be the same SDE that did $15,118 yesterday versus $34 and hasn't dropped below $12,000 in a day in over a week (or $10,215 ever) versus a max of $6,379 in the last week? it's the little things I guess.
Actually looking at Kicktraq I've lost all respect for the Hotlist Recon remains number 2 yet SDE has slipped to 7th, I don't get it based on those figures (I know that kicktraq uses other criteria as well but really?)
Hey guys, I just want to start off with a couple of disclaimers. I also don't know if this post should be in the review section or the general section.
1) I consider myself a board gamer (over someone who does table top miniatures) and this is my first dungeon crawler. The games I usually play are Betrayal at the House on the Hill, Mage Kingh the Board Game, 7 Wonders (and a nice collection of KS games coming in).
2) I don't regret backing the kickstarter (despite the problem with the rules)
3) I know the rules are getting rewritten before release, so I am not going to mention the quality as a problem, and the other problems I have with them may also be fixed by release.
---------
Time for my warnings. I have two problems, one I consider major, the other is a minor one based on personal preference.
The minor one first: Character progression is pretty slow. It takes a lot of play time (~6 hours) to actually get rewarded with a new card for your deck or a title. The only progression before that are items (which get discarded every ~2 hours or so [until you can get one of those ~6 hour rewards]). Also if you play with different gaming groups, it's annoying to remember what to save in between games, thankfully they did put a PDF that you can print out and write down what you need to remember. Again, this is just mostly a personal concern, and honestly not that big of a deal.
Now the major one. If the game we have currently (Wave 1 from the kickstarter) is the game that will be released at retail I warn that it feels incomplete. The following is a list of things that are mentioned in the rule book or cards, but not actually supplied in the base game (I may miss a couple of things):
1) 4 enemy types (Shamblers, Tailless, Iathi, Sycline). The base game only comes with Crawlers and Grubbers, with Captains for each.
- an extension: The Yardu miniboss has a faith recipe that "Raises 1 Souless". I assume that is an undead Captain, but their are none in the base game and we don't know it's stats. He also makes it easier for undead to resurrect, but again he is the only undead monster in the base game.
2) 3 types/rarity of cards (Journeyman Abilities, Master Abilities, Agent Abilities). We are teased of their existence but none come with the game. And there are only 5 Novice abilities.
3) Exotic gear (orange) [I think they called it exotic rarity in the manual]. The game only comes with starter (brown), green and blue gear cards (along with white gold and potion cards).
4) Boss levels 2-4 skulls. All are teased along with the terms "Novice Heroes, Journeyman Heroes, Master class Hero." Again those terms are not explained in any detail.
5) Spawn types: Sacrifice, Terrifying, Mystic, Pacifying, Ill-Fated, Shadow, Paranoid, Intelligent, Explosive, Rowdy, Reinforcing. All explained but in the default Darkness deck these types are not present.
6) Agents and Agent cards. Near boss level enemies that seem to give great rewards to the players, but none come in the game.
7) Slaugterfield Supplement Pack. Item cards specifically used only in the Slaughterfield game mode.
8) The Skald and Spriggan job tokens are supplied in the cardboard sheets but you need to buy their decks & mini separately.
9) No included bag to draw loot from, and baggies don't work because it's supposed to be blind.
10) Missing quests. There are quests in the game that have branching points, but there are multiple ones that just don't come with the 30 base quests.
Lucy Quest Chain: The Darkness Within, Connor’s Toy (a kickstarter exclusive if I recall)
Drums of the Wold Quest Chain: Go Away Violently
The Abbey’s Coffers Quest Chain: A Common Laborer
Further Quest problems: A Father's Greif quest spawns 4 Shamblers and 1 Soulless. Neither are in the base game.
-------------
So how much will it cost to buy these missing things at retail? It looks like more than double the cost of the game.
Unique add-ons (prices taken from the add on from the kickstarter campaign)
$20 Slaughterfield Supplement Pack
$15 Spriggan character (to be retooled as a druid for retail)
$15 Skald character
$25 Agents of Darkness
$20 Elemental Boss w/ Darkness Deck
$5 Treasure Bag
$10 Treasure Deck Expansion
$15 Quest Expansion 1
$25 6, 6x6 Tile supplements
$15 2 Cyclops Captains
$15 6 Cyclops minions
$15 6 Rats minions
$30 2 Rat captains, 10 rat minions
$15 6 elementals minions
$15 6 skeletons minions
------
$255 in unique add-ons. Technically it would most likely be more. 6 minions (for the Cyclops, rats, elementals, and skeletons are simply not enough to populate even the smallest tile).
Optional Add-ons. Not "necessary" to have "everything".
$15 Extra Base hero w/ deck (comes with opposite gender mini not in the base game) [there are 5 base heroes]
$5 Hero Card sleeves per hero type
$5 Regular card sleeves
$5 Item Card Sleeves
$15 Extra dice (10d10s, 6FD)
$35 Duplicate set of tiles that come with the base game
$8 6 Sculpted Lairs (1 of each type)
$15 6 Grubbers minions
$15 6 crawler minions (split between melee and ranged)
Things that were also unlocked but the retail prices are unknown.
Skeleton Captains
Elemental Captains
Skeleton Boss w/ Darkness deck
Orc Boss w/ Darkness deck
Rat Boss w/ Darkness deck
Cyclops Boss w/ Darkness deck
Fire Drake Boss w/ Darkness deck
Minotaur mini Boss
10 new world tiles
5 Slaughterfield specific tiles
Alternate gender heroes (besides having to buy a new hero deck)
And more things are being produced. There's already talk of a Myth expansion kickstarter in Q3 of this year.
-------------
All of the above does not reflect on the quality of the base game. The minis are pretty good (I'm no judge of minis to be honest). But I do think that the melee and ranged Crawler minis are too hard to tell apart at a glance. The melee ones have bigger arms, and the ranged ones have slightly bigger heads. Painting would most likely be the easiest solution to be able to tell them apart. It would have been nice if the Hero minis came pre painted, but again that's a small complaint. The grubber minis are pretty cool with 3 different variations of the melee minis. The mechanics of the game are also fun, and once the rules have been fixed it shouldn't be too hard to learn the game from the rulebook.
So don't get me wrong. I do like the game, and I think it's fun to play. I also think when I get all of the kickstarter stretch goals I will feel that I got good value for my money. But for an MRSP of $95 with $255+ of current extras (with more already being designed and produced) needed to have a "complete" game is extreme in my opinion.
I'm not against expansions, but usually they come out a year after the game is out and add a new mechanic/structure to the game, but should never be required to play. Both expansions for 7 Wonders added something new, but you can still play the base game without "missing" anything. MageKnight has a great expansion that I have left integrated since I got it, but even the creator says that the base game is still a stand-alone game.
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If you are a minis/tabletop person, I'm sure a lot of the above won't bother you. Spending $10-$20 here and there to get a new cool thing, and getting a chance to paint them. But if you consider yourself a boardgamer and want everything in one box expect to feel like you are missing a lot from the base game. Realize that if you want the "full experience" you'll have to shell out a lot of money (again prices are from the kickstarter I have no clue what they will be at retail). I wouldn't look at this as a board game, it's much closer to a tabletop game (loosely think "a card game version of dnd")
Again... it *sounds like* (caveats and all, possible changes to the final product, etc...,) that the retail-product is a bit the victim of the process of how they wrote the game "during" the Kickstarter (without, it seems, a clear idea of where they draw the "line"). The wrote the rules, quest, etc.., of their unlocked stretchgoals "into the game", but took the actual minis for it out again to get an affordable retail product.
Likewise, the expansions (e.g. the former stretch-goals) might not be watertight products in themselves, but be full of cross-references to other parts, etc..
Also, second Myth Kickstarter rumoured to be already in the making.... Lol.
Yikes. That sounds completely prohibitive to getting into the game. I don't see shelling out $400 retail to get everything needed to play the game the way they wrote the rulebook. I shelled out $400 for Shadows of Brimstone, but I feel like I got even more than these guys shoehorned into Myth.
I don't know about the rest of the crowd, but I don't see either Recon game or Myth flying off of retail shelves at their current packaging. And barring some massive deal to get their expansions carried by Toys R Us or something, I don't see any store carrying half of that stuff unless the basic Myth game sells like hotcakes, printing money for FLGS owners and Mercs both.
I don't see Myth sell that well, has good reviews, but I was under the impression many things gained in the kickstarter such as lairs ectr were passed on the product, it is bad they constructed a book that has things they do not include, a smart thing would be at least to have a token representation of everything in the rulebook, wouldn't kill them to have a bag, some other variety minions, an agent and a big boss in, the actual cost has already been payed, adding the models is minimal expense.
Likewise Recon does not look good, even worse than Myth and this is why I am worried for the product.
Well, when all is said and done, the guys from Megacon/Mercs/Myth might be greedy, arrogant, selfish, delusional donkey-caves, but at least they aren't living out their closet-child-molester-instincts in their games.
Well, when all is said and done, the guys from Megacon/Mercs/Myth might be greedy, arrogant, selfish, delusional donkey-caves, but at least they aren't living out their closet-child-molester-instincts in their games.
No competition there, really.
This is something positive. Not sure they should post that quote to the KS though...
Because some morality crusader might retake the torch and pitchforks against them and we should be glad no such morality troll affected other KS's like kingdom death?
PsychoticStorm wrote: Because some morality crusader might retake the torch and pitchforks against them and we should be glad no such morality troll affected other KS's like kingdom death?
Well, Kingdom Death pin-ups seem to be.. well.. over 14 at least
But every Kickstarter has it's pitchforks. You're swinging it yourself quite heavily there against MERCS, if for different reasons.
DaveC wrote: Hmm would that be the same SDE that did $15,118 yesterday versus $34 and hasn't dropped below $12,000 in a day in over a week (or $10,215 ever) versus a max of $6,379 in the last week? it's the little things I guess.
Actually looking at Kicktraq I've lost all respect for the Hotlist Recon remains number 2 yet SDE has slipped to 7th, I don't get it based on those figures (I know that kicktraq uses other criteria as well but really?)
The hot list depends on % above goal, which is why companies like Mantic, CMON and Mercs set artificially low initial funding goals.
DaveC wrote: Hmm would that be the same SDE that did $15,118 yesterday versus $34 and hasn't dropped below $12,000 in a day in over a week (or $10,215 ever) versus a max of $6,379 in the last week? it's the little things I guess.
Actually looking at Kicktraq I've lost all respect for the Hotlist Recon remains number 2 yet SDE has slipped to 7th, I don't get it based on those figures (I know that kicktraq uses other criteria as well but really?)
The hot list depends on % above goal, which is why companies like Mantic, CMON and Mercs set artificially low initial funding goals.
Not true.
The No 1. on that list today isn't even funded yet, and arguably struggling to do so.
It sure doesn't sound it the way you have been repeatedly going at it hammer and tongs.
If anything it looks like you have an axe to grind or just want to drive your own agenda.
Do you honestly think this is
Doing well
Offers an irresistible deal
Has backers satisfied and confident
Has clear and direct communication, leaving little or no doubts about important details
Has strong legs to stand when it hits retail in its suggested from
I want this to succeed, by joining the chorus of funboys and denying the problems it has I will not make it better, except if somehow a big pool of oblivious to the fact people somehow can create a mass illusion spell, which I doubt.
So yes you can say I have an Agenda, I want this to succeed and I do so by pointing the flaws I perceive and I would be glad to be wrong, but my prediction that it will hit negatives was validated and the stalling of the last nine days especially the last two supports my position.
There is plenty of time yet but, the momentum is not there and I see no corrective moves, or actual communication from Megacon, If I didn't care I would not be a backer and would not bother with it.
It sure doesn't sound it the way you have been repeatedly going at it hammer and tongs.
If anything it looks like you have an axe to grind or just want to drive your own agenda.
Do you honestly think this is
Doing well
Offers an irresistible deal
Has backers satisfied and confident
Has clear and direct communication, leaving little or no doubts about important details
Has strong legs to stand when it hits retail in its suggested from
I want this to succeed, by joining the chorus of funboys and denying the problems it has I will not make it better, except if somehow a big pool of oblivious to the fact people somehow can create a mass illusion spell, which I doubt.
So yes you can say I have an Agenda, I want this to succeed and I do so by pointing the flaws I perceive and I would be glad to be wrong, but my prediction that it will hit negatives was validated and the stalling of the last nine days especially the last two supports my position.
There is plenty of time yet but, the momentum is not there and I see no corrective moves, or actual communication from Megacon, If I didn't care I would not be a backer and would not bother with it.
You keep saying you want it to succeed, but I've not seen you say anything positive at all about the game. You've been negative about every aspect of the game and kickstarter discussed. What is it in here that you like enough about it to care?
It sure doesn't sound it the way you have been repeatedly going at it hammer and tongs.
If anything it looks like you have an axe to grind or just want to drive your own agenda.
Do you honestly think this is
Doing well
Offers an irresistible deal
Has backers satisfied and confident
Has clear and direct communication, leaving little or no doubts about important details
Has strong legs to stand when it hits retail in its suggested from
I want this to succeed, by joining the chorus of funboys and denying the problems it has I will not make it better, except if somehow a big pool of oblivious to the fact people somehow can create a mass illusion spell, which I doubt.
So yes you can say I have an Agenda, I want this to succeed and I do so by pointing the flaws I perceive and I would be glad to be wrong, but my prediction that it will hit negatives was validated and the stalling of the last nine days especially the last two supports my position.
There is plenty of time yet but, the momentum is not there and I see no corrective moves, or actual communication from Megacon, If I didn't care I would not be a backer and would not bother with it.
You keep saying you want it to succeed, but I've not seen you say anything positive at all about the game. You've been negative about every aspect of the game and kickstarter discussed. What is it in here that you like enough about it to care?
As an outside observer(this kickstarter hasn't looked very interesting to me, and the comments in the latter part of this thread aren't helping), I wouldn't call his comments negative, but critical of the campaign. There is a subtle difference between the two- the first the person doesn't feel there are any redeeming qualities, the second may feel that something can be changed to make it better.
I dunno, the last 12 pages of this thread have been pretty much the same 4 people going round & round in circles about how terrible this KS is and how it is failing and horrible and terrible and bad and Myth was so much better and how can you not see how terrible it is because it's bad and you should feel bad for liking it and you're blind if you don't see things this way because clearly it's a bad deal and not Myth. All despite the fact that it has 2100 backers and is 800% funded, clearly it's doing terrible /rolleyes.
As somebody with absolutely no interest in Myth and only a passing interest in Mercs, I find this KS to be decent. Acceptable. Alright. The style is fantastic and the game looks fun enough to play on occasion. If it fails in that regard I'll have a lot of cool miniatures that I'll find a use for: Infinity, RPGs, Pulp Alley, other board games. Maybe I'll even play Mercs with em.
The KS isn't an astounding deal by any means, but it's acceptable. I'd put it a few levels above Dwarf King's Hold which was a fun game but terrible components for the same price. I find it much more interesting than Level 7 Omega Protocol and at a lower price point (and the rules for that are online, so I could always play that game with these minis and boards). The KS doesn't blow me away or urge me to spend a thousand dollars on too-good-to-pass-up deals, but I certainly feel like I'll get my money's worth out of the stuff I'm getting. I'm more satisfied with this product as-is at this point than I was with the second Reaper Bones KS, that's for darn sure.
Dwarf King's Hold is also regularly a fraction of the price (30-40 with shipping easily), has all the necessary components in plastic regardless of how long they're on the board, and would have piles of extra junk included if it was being run as a Kickstarter.
Which it isn't.
...Yet?
Totally OT though. And my DKH box is totally thrashed. Maybe Project Pandora would be a better analogy? I still don't own that one though.
I need the money from my pulled MERCS pledge to buy Games Workshop products.
True story.
Heh. Good reason.
For me its the Mierce Kickstarter. I'm seriously debating pulling my MERCS pledge, not because of all the Eeyore-ish reasons documented in this thread, but because I'm probably pulling all my other pledges from _all_ other projects right now to funnel into Mierce. I already dropped a few other projects, this is one of the last ones remaining.
I just grabbed a few of the GW terrain sets that have been discontinued, so it was really a "get them now or never" situation - and I've wanted all of the kits in question since I first saw them but just never got around to it. I missed a couple of them entirely as well, sadly.
Kalamadea wrote: I dunno, the last 12 pages of this thread have been pretty much the same 4 people going round & round in circles about how terrible this KS is and how it is failing and horrible and terrible and bad and Myth was so much better and how can you not see how terrible it is because it's bad and you should feel bad for liking it and you're blind if you don't see things this way because clearly it's a bad deal and not Myth. All despite the fact that it has 2100 backers and is 800% funded, clearly it's doing terrible /rolleyes.
As somebody with absolutely no interest in Myth and only a passing interest in Mercs, I find this KS to be decent. Acceptable. Alright. The style is fantastic and the game looks fun enough to play on occasion. If it fails in that regard I'll have a lot of cool miniatures that I'll find a use for: Infinity, RPGs, Pulp Alley, other board games. Maybe I'll even play Mercs with em.
The KS isn't an astounding deal by any means, but it's acceptable. I'd put it a few levels above Dwarf King's Hold which was a fun game but terrible components for the same price. I find it much more interesting than Level 7 Omega Protocol and at a lower price point (and the rules for that are online, so I could always play that game with these minis and boards). The KS doesn't blow me away or urge me to spend a thousand dollars on too-good-to-pass-up deals, but I certainly feel like I'll get my money's worth out of the stuff I'm getting. I'm more satisfied with this product as-is at this point than I was with the second Reaper Bones KS, that's for darn sure.
A. We never said that people who are happy with it are blind, or anything like that. However, you aren't happy with it being a stand alone game, as you said you could just use the models for other things. I don't look at games as a vehicle for porting models to something else. I want this game to be 100% stand alone, support itself and be worth its price for what it is. That's really what the last 12 pages have been talking about.
B. All the current backers are mostly people from Myth, pledging to support the Mercs company because they liked Myth. Or they are Mercs players, and this is a phenomenal deal to pick up plastic versions of pretty much all the factions, plus each one looks to have 2 alternate/new sculpts per faction. This is a second question that has been asked over the last 12 pages: Is this KS really only a vehicle to port Mercs from metals to plastics? Or what does the Recon game have need of all 12 Mercs factions for? It is a co-op game where everyone plays the same faction together.
C. Yes, as of this instant, Recon has 2165 backers and raised $356,518. That is incredibly successful. But the core game isn't worth the $60 they want me to pay in this KS, and they haven't even hinted at the retail price. If $60 is the retail price, then this is a terrible KS price. I compare this to Shadows of Brimstone, who for $75 a game box gave me 32 miniatures. At the equivalent $200 level, SoBdoubled the miniatures. So, Recon gives me 41 miniatures and a dice game and TT rules, SOB gave me 129 miniatures.
Flying Frog Productions and Mercs are about the same size companies, FFP just has a proven history of actually making games for longer.
So, no one here is saying that you should pull your pledge, or rethink your backing position. However, when compared to comparable boardgames that I play, Recon doesn't stand up on its own. Like I said, I don't look at a game and think "Hmm, I could totally pay extra per miniature to get this and then sh!tcan the game itself, because it is terrible." I buy games based on their own merits. In this case, Recon doesn't stand up as a miniatures boardgame.
What most of the 4 of us that you drag through the mud have been asking the past 12 pages is: Why doesn't Mercs want any non-Myth/Mercs players to buy their game? They aren't pitching this KS to us. That is what we're saying. The $1k increase in the past 50 hours would indicate to any analytical person that a problem, even a hiccup, exists, and maybe some attention should be paid. But, you seem to have the same disinterested opinion that Mercs does, and Unicorns rainbows everywhere = success.
New update has been posted, showing EU models. They really look awful. Really skinny and poorly proportioned. I liked a fair few of the others they showed off initially, so these are a real letdown.
I can understand where you guys are coming from. The problem is when you dwell on the negatives repeatedly it starts to just look like you have it in for the game for whatever reason. To say then you are backing it comes over illogical as what you want is almost being defeated by the negative spin being spun.
Does the Recon KS represent good value based on minis on offer a core game level? Probably not at assassin level but at agent level I think the proposition shifts and especially If it hits 500k or more..
Like Kalamadea I did not buy Mercs or Myth so my motivation is totally different and maybe for me at least. The OPFOR level represents a good deal or at least I see it that way if it hits 400k, which I think it surely will. I will admit at 500k the deal has a lot more pull, again I think it will hit this level and some.
Am I satisfied and content with my pledge & what is on offer currently - yes. I understand if others may not.
After looking at the videos of the game in Beta form I feel comfortable with it and I am sure it will be polished even further as the game is tested and developed in pre-production.
Will the game be a success with gamers and commercially viable at this stage, who knows? You just take a punt on what's available and what floats your boat. Great games don't always become a commercial mega success and Earth Reborn springs to mind. Does the KS have to be irresistible to want to buy in, I don't think so.
Looking at the more recent comments on BGG regarding Myth post BGG FAQ. These give me some comfort that the guys at Megacon can produce a good game albeit the rules needed a lot of clarification to discover this. Hopefully they have learnt some lessons from Myth?
Not having done a KS before I was quite cautious about jumping in but after a little more investigation and taking on the cons mentioned and what I perceived as Pros. I am comfortable where Recon is going at this time.
Could the Megacon guys provide a bit more communication. This I could go with but I can also understand if they have their hands full at the moment albeit a problem of their own making.
At 500k, beyond the fact they require you to fork about 100$ to get the juicy things unlocked, you will have in my opinion the stuff the game should have starter with (maybe missing a few models).
At the current state though, I wonder if it will hit 400k, the almost flat-line it has hit, has surprised me, I was expecting an uphill battle to 400k because the stretch goals are not inspiring and the free stuff been offered are minimal, but even then I was expecting a faster progress.
The project has practically stagnated, it has accumulated most of its core potential and is in desperate need of new blood infusion.
This can be done either by making the deal irresistible, or by creator promotion and participation, or ideally from both.
The EU video offers a little more insight at least although I can agree the sculpts could be better and I prefer the proportions on the two with helmets than those without. The Leader I can understand being skinnier as a female but they should bulk out the sergeants legs a little or at least move them away from the exaggerated akimbo position although he does look a bit better in the video..
Also picked this up on BGG and it would appear the V2 Mercs TT rules and Conflict game will ship in the Summer once they are done i.e. earlier than the KS.
That is a bit silly. Having the guys with helmets having the beret rolled and worn on a loop on the shoulder or even on the back of the belt would be a lot better.
Now this is one point I can agree with. Berets on helmets just wouldn't work for a start, unless you had Velcro to keep them attached LOL and that just wouldn't happen.
The beret in the lapel would also work.
They should make them either beret and faces or helmets only.
One cool thing they could do in the KS is produce swappable plastic head variations and not just for EU even if it was just a couple for each faction. Would be a nice touch.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
PsychoticStorm wrote: They have gone to adepticon, so I guess we will hear more things from there.
It will be interesting to see if there is a KS bounce effect from Adepticon.
it's the proportions of the legs that are off as well look where her knees are the upper leg is too long and the lower too short she's not the only one to suffer from this.
I dislike a lot of the EU sculpts which is a pity because they are packaged with the CCC who I think are the strongest design wise which is probably intentional. If it wasn't for stretch goals (that there are) applying only to the $120 I'd take just the Counter Threat set but then it's $60 with nothing extra added might as well get it retail.
PsychoticStorm wrote: So when I said 10 or so pages ago that the sculpts could do a remake in the legs department, I was right and not negative?
They need not be mutually exclusive.
Factually legitimate concerns can be part of a seemingly overtly negative crusade to denigrate a project or company beyond reason (e.g. have a look at any GW-discussion on Dakka), where the latter actually obscures and distracts from the otherwise legit criticism.
Any sculptor or artist of any kind can turn out both good and bad work on different days. It's the nature of creative work.
The editor or commissioner of the artwork then has the responsibility to tell the artist "great work" or "not good enough" or "change this" as needed. Ideally instead of "close enough!" or "awesome!" for every piece of submitted work.
We've been through that discussion in many of the Mantic threads, and while I'm not a fan of Rob Lane, if you follow the Mierce thread you can see that Mierce requests modifications and changes from their sculptors and artists with some regularity - and their quality speaks for itself..
Azazelx wrote: Any sculptor or artist of any kind can turn out both good and bad work on different days. It's the nature of creative work.
The editor or commissioner of the artwork then has the responsibility to tell the artist "great work" or "not good enough" or "change this" as needed. Ideally instead of "close enough!" or "awesome!" for every piece of submitted work.
We've been through that discussion in many of the Mantic threads, and while I'm not a fan of Rob Lane, if you follow the Mierce thread you can see that Mierce requests modifications and changes from their sculptors and artists with some regularity - and their quality speaks for itself..
I'm going to lay this at the feet of the concepts: as I noted earlier, I find that this style worked very well for MYTH, but just doesn't seem all that well suited to the sci-fi elements. It especially breaks down with the females, which it's nice to see I'm not the only one that doesn't seem to find their genders all that distinguishable.
The biggest problem though seems to me to be what others mentioned, that the art style and setting just don't quite seem to sell "sci-fi", more like near future. Which leaves the concepts/minis just looking odd. For example, the EU sculpts shown; they aren't powered armor, so why so many hard, flat surfaces? It's not intended to be archaic, so why the oddly prominent codpieces (on what is, apparently, the woman as well!)?
Unfortunately, if I'm right then there is basically no fixing things as Az hopes: it's not that the sculptor isn't giving the boss what he really wants, it's that what the boss wants isn't something that has the same appeal. Given how many sculpts already existed for this game, I fear that is much more probably the issue.
Not sure what Euro following we have here, but this is good news for those folks,... Particularly the German speakers.
Producing a French version has not been finalized yet, but is in the works:
I can tell you that Ulisses Spiel and MegaCon games are working together really closely on many things at this point.
I'll put out an update soon, but I can confirm that Recon has within EU shipping, Recon translated to German, and they are going to translate MERCS TT as well.
Unfortunately, if I'm right then there is basically no fixing things as Az hopes: it's not that the sculptor isn't giving the boss what he really wants, it's that what the boss wants isn't something that has the same appeal. Given how many sculpts already existed for this game, I fear that is much more probably the issue.
Oh, I'm not hoping that these will be fixed. Their attitude to it all speaks volumes. My point was essentially that any artist can turn out bad work, and that it's the responsibility of those who hired the artist to say "not good enough! do it again!"
That guy doing the EU video sounds like he's had a few too many before filming that video. Adepticon pre-party? Just trying to calm some nerves? I like the Shock trooper quite a lot and the Analyst is much better as a mini than I expected from the concept art. Sergeant is pretty uninspired and that Leader is just freaking bad, really really bad. She looks VERY rushed, like they couldn't spend enough time on her because they needed the models to bring to Adpeticon.
But as for the style in general, I'm actually a big fan of it for sci-fi. Myth was just a bit TOO saturday morning cartoon for me and although I understand the appeal, the monsters were just too much on the silly/cutesy-cartoon side for my personal tastes, so I quietly skipped it. The MERCS stuff ALSO has a late '80s/early '90s cartoon/comic vibe, but in a slightly more serious tone. Very 90's Marvel universe, very GI Joe and Exo Squad. The MERCs stuff may as well have been a line of 3 3/4" action figures. These aren't hyper-detailed Infinity figures for sure, but they make up for that detail with style, they have a distinct aesthetic and they LOOK like cartoon/drawings turned into 3d sculpts to me. If that isn't your thing, that isn't your thing, but I'm all over it.
So we get a game with miniatures that clearly look good to at least 2100 of us, gameplay that has solid potential, and enough extra toys that I can use them for other things IF the game goes full-on Sedition Wars on us. Great. Thumbs-up. I'm not blind to the downfalls of this project or the game itself and I'm certainly not either a MERCS superfan nor a doomsayer by any means (which apparently is a damnable offense on the internet). As an outside onlooker that had no interest in Myth and never played the table-top MERCS game I just feel like the middle-road isn't getting enough air-time here. You can call me a Champion of the Middle if you want, but it isn't from disinterest.
You guys are just now noticing the berets on top of the helmets? You didn't notice those when they released the concept art? Well, at least with plastic, you could just shave them right off.
Unfortunately, if I'm right then there is basically no fixing things as Az hopes: it's not that the sculptor isn't giving the boss what he really wants, it's that what the boss wants isn't something that has the same appeal. Given how many sculpts already existed for this game, I fear that is much more probably the issue.
Oh, I'm not hoping that these will be fixed. Their attitude to it all speaks volumes. My point was essentially that any artist can turn out bad work, and that it's the responsibility of those who hired the artist to say "not good enough! do it again!"
Good news about the female leader's legs. They don't need to be fixed at all.
Mecs on update comments wrote:She is fine. Don't let the angle of the picture fool you. We'll take some 360 degree shots and you'll see... or better yet, come by Adepticon in Chicago this weekend and see for yourself.
The legs are too skinny for my taste,... Same as the CCC Gunner; but the armor on the lower legs does make it look worse.
By bulking up the lower leg, it accentuates how skinny her thighs are. Also, someone commented that they were not in power armor,.... But they are to some extent (not like full space marine armor), but however it is supposed to work (not sure without linkages and such), in the TT game play, a result of getting hit can be "broken armor" which makes your guys fairly useless (your movement is reduced to a minimum, and you lose any other benefits of the armor - like active camo for KemVar).
That said,... I think both of those models are too skinny,... They should have muscles like they had been in boot camp, and trained on days that they are not on missions. (Not to mention the fact that I like the curves,.... Not the runway model look)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Nice info about how they are doing blind play testing of Recon. There has been concern over how they will do this differently from the MYTH rule book,..... and this sounds like good news to me:
I originally posted this in a Myth thread, but I think it is just as relevant to talk about over here at Recon.
I was part of a Recon blind test recently. I live near Indy and, having enjoyed MERCS and Myth, when Brian put out a call for playtesters on the local facebook group, I dropped by.
I'm limited in what I can say about mechanics by an NDA, but I can tell you that Brian put all 4 of us in a room by ourselves, turned on a camera, gave us the beta rules, and left us to our own devices.
We played for about 3 hours. During that time we had to call for Brian and ask him a question a grand total of about 2 times, I think. Both times the questions we had were answered by the rules document we had in front of us; we had just overlooked the rule.
We made copious notes on the rules document and, having seen the issues people are having with Myth, basically any time we did something that I didn't remember us reading about in our initial read-through of the rules, I would pipe up and say "Now where in the rules does it tell us to do that?" and we would look through the document and make sure the rules had told us clearly what to do.
Here is an example. A certain event called for "The players draw a card." We talked about that sentence a good deal. What does it really mean? How could it be interpreted? The players EACH draw a card? The players draw ONE card for the whole group? Again, we made notes of things like this, trying to find ways that even seemingly simple instructions could be unclear.
At any rate, I say all that to say this: MERCS is certainly blind-testing Recon, and I think the game will be the better for it. And for those wondering, yes, it was a blast to play. It felt like a fusion of Pandemic, and a tabletop skirmish game.
I'd also like to add a final note. I had met the MERCS guys at Gencon last year and sat through a demo of Myth with them. This was my second time interacting with them in person, and my initial impression of them, that they are passionate guys trying to put out the highest quality product they can to the best of their abilities, was reaffirmed.
CptJake wrote: Good news about the female leader's legs. They don't need to be fixed at all.
Mecs on update comments wrote:She is fine. Don't let the angle of the picture fool you. We'll take some 360 degree shots and you'll see... or better yet, come by Adepticon in Chicago this weekend and see for yourself.
Oh boy, good to know that we the ignorant public were wrong, and that the figure is perfect as it is. Of all the ways you could phrase that thought, they chose one of the worst. Generally, you want the person running your social media to have, maybe, a modicum of people skills.
The EU figures are bad, plain and simple. They look like an amateur hobbyist's attempt to sculpt their own figures for the game.
You are exactly right, Orlando. And there's the rub.
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yamato wrote: The legs are too skinny for my taste,... Same as the CCC Gunner; but the armor on the lower legs does make it look worse.
By bulking up the lower leg, it accentuates how skinny her thighs are. Also, someone commented that they were not in power armor,.... But they are to some extent (not like full space marine armor), but however it is supposed to work (not sure without linkages and such), in the TT game play, a result of getting hit can be "broken armor" which makes your guys fairly useless (your movement is reduced to a minimum, and you lose any other benefits of the armor - like active camo for KemVar).
That said,... I think both of those models are too skinny,... They should have muscles like they had been in boot camp, and trained on days that they are not on missions. (Not to mention the fact that I like the curves,.... Not the runway model look)
They could just give them baggy fatigue pants like the blokes have and the problem would be solved as well. Though I'd also much prefer visibly muscular women than the ill-proportioned stick-limbed creatures that we have in their stead.
I will have to defend their response on that one (don't act shocked) I can understand them saying its the angle and we will give you a 360 to see her better.
I will not defend them if they keep this stance after the 360 gets rejected by the audience, because of the above reported issues.
I see what you are saying. I submit, they could have taken and shown pictures from any angle. I suspect they chose the one that makes the figure look the best.
If that is the case, a 360 view isn't going to help. If my suspicions are wrong I'll admit this figure is great when they show the better pictures showing it to be great.
CptJake wrote: I see what you are saying. I submit, they could have taken and shown pictures from any angle. I suspect they chose the one that makes the figure look the best.
If that is the case, a 360 view isn't going to help. If my suspicions are wrong I'll admit this figure is great when they show the better pictures showing it to be great.
Agree. Almost 100% of the time when a KS says 'They look better in person' or 'it is the angle' or 'oh it is just a terrible camera picture' they are always full of crap and the model is never better. I suppose 'it is a bad angle' is code for 'we can't afford to resculpt-fix it and we have to stick with the sculpt or scrap the model.
I have yet to see one example of a actual BAD SCULPT in a KS which was actually redeemed when it hit backers hands. Not a one.
So am I the only person who likes how EUinc looks? I think the berets look really cool. I like the helmets and armor a lot. the leaders legs are indeed too small and the faces sadly don't look good (I plan on replacing them with helmet and visor heads) but besides that I think they look nice.
I think the EU are the darlings of this KS, as they are entirely new sculpts and being added to the Mercs universe for the first time as models. So they probably feel they're the pinnacle of their offerings, and since the Mercs figures are going to be in ultra-spectacular miniature plastic, these are far superior to other miniatures' companies plastic figures. So of course your opinion of them is wrong. They're fantastic. Drive to Adepticon so they can tell you why you're wrong AND they're fantastic. And will be much much better than the other figures in the boardgame...
To be honest I am puzzled by their attitude, really puzzled.
I can accept throwing a bad sculpt because they have already invested time and resources when they do it on their own and do it in metal/ resin with the intention to redo them later on, but this is a kickstarter and the product is plastic.
Another day of stagnancy. I was hoping that their ads and being at Adepticon would throw some energy into this. I hope they've got something up their sleeves for this weekend.
Salacious Greed wrote: Another day of stagnancy. I was hoping that their ads and being at Adepticon would throw some energy into this. I hope they've got something up their sleeves for this weekend.
Aren't weekends usually a stagnant time for kickstarters? Not sure how much slower this one can get though.
They finally upped their frequency of ads,...... Like I said before,... This weekend will be litmus test I think,....
They are giving away a free figure to anyone who comes to their booth at Adepticon,... Just like they did last year when myth was running, so they should be exposing folks to the game,..... It did provide a nice boost last time,... But if it is still flat after this??????
They've teased again about some cool stuff to be released once it gets to 365k,.... But it sounds like a "Tango and Cash" add on,..... I'm not so sure that these pulp add ons are driving any real movement (they don't do much for me).
I think they would be much better served to have all the faction videos up, including the ones that are available for add on mission packs at this point.
This makes me sad, the video makes them look unprepared, the fact the box contents still do not display at least the proper amount of miniatures is bad, also its their prime time to redo their old miniatures, I will say it again this is plastic molds they are after, why not put the extra effort and make them great?
Also, since when the CCG judge became a Stretch Goal?
Alpharius wrote: I pulled my pledge a while back on this one for a variety of reasons.
I've seen the models in person at Adepticon now and I won't be getting back in.
I do wish them all the best with this one though!
Well that says it all really if seeing it in person doesn't change your mind then there is definitely something just not appealing to those that weren't already Mercs fans.
On that basis I'm out pulled my pledge (not that my $1 is contributing much anyway)
Yeah I'm out as well, ah well. I figure I can just pick up the EU Inc started box when it comes out, I still think they'd make great Fusiliers for Infinity lol. But I'm really more of a boardgame guy, and I've decided the game isn't really for me. That said I hope they're successful, more games and choices is always better for us consumers ^^
Looking at Sentinels of the Multiverse Tactics and SDE to scratch my boardgame with minis KS itch for now.
They've teased again about some cool stuff to be released once it gets to 365k,.... But it sounds like a "Tango and Cash" add on,..... I'm not so sure that these pulp add ons are driving any real movement (they don't do much for me).
There are 5-10 guys on the comments page who will orgasm in delight over 'Tango and Cash'. Otherwise, I suspect folks would like to see already unlocked factions get more of their figures to bring them up to the full 10 figs they should be. I doubt these figs will get enough extra backers to help, and as a free stretch goal or a paid add on I doubt they get too much extra funds from folks already pledged.
Alpharius wrote: I pulled my pledge a while back on this one for a variety of reasons.
I've seen the models in person at Adepticon now and I won't be getting back in.
I do wish them all the best with this one though!
Alph, can you talk objectively about what you saw, why you won't be getting back in? Also, any chance at pictures of their stuff?
Edited to include:
Broke $365k. Tango and Cash at $385. Terrible names though. And please don't don't let Cash look as bad as the art...
ED-209 looks great, and should have been the freebie. Much more inline with the near-future level of this game. I think he'll sell well though, and gives us our SecFor 4+ to look forward to.
I quite like all the cameo minis & the ED-209 mini is cool but I can understand the calls for more Mercs minis to supplement the ones you get with Recon and convert to plastic.
I wouldn't worry too much yet I think this will bust the 500k mark and there will be more unlocks after that which may include the Mercs that I can even see the sense in having, especially pledging at Opfor level.
Once this gets to 400k I think it will start to gather momentum because as others have mentioned "the deal isn't irresistible" at this point but once 400k is broken I think it starts to move into this territory.
Apparently there is also more info coming on mission cards and movement.
Honestly another set of homage figures that don't fit in the game and another robocop tie in that reminds where the art direction should have been headed.
Been a while since I saw Robocop, but wasn't the big robot for patrolling streets/neighborhoods for the most part? I can't see it being to useful inside an office building.
Yes, but in both the old and new movies, they had ED-209 fight Robocop indoors I believe. Plus, ED-209 fits in with the theme of Mercs far better than any of the other non-Robocop homages so far.
I'm really hoping to hear some firsthand info from Alpharius, see what his impression of the game/company was. I'm really shocked that there isn't a news/rumor thread for Adepticon and everything there. Also surprised nobody else on Dakka stopped by the Mercs booth so far. Guess everyone is playing games!
Salacious Greed wrote: Yes, but in both the old and new movies, they had ED-209 fight Robocop indoors I believe.
You would be correct.
I am mainly interested in the KS for the minis to use for sci-fi RPGs, but at this point it still isn't an irresistible deal. If it hits 400k I may reevaluate, but I think it would have to hit 500k to make it enough minis to be worth it, and I am not sure that will happen.
Salacious Greed wrote: Yes, but in both the old and new movies, they had ED-209 fight Robocop indoors I believe.
You would be correct.
I am mainly interested in the KS for the minis to use for sci-fi RPGs, but at this point it still isn't an irresistible deal. If it hits 400k I may reevaluate, but I think it would have to hit 500k to make it enough minis to be worth it, and I am not sure that will happen.
If you only want the KS for RPG minis then at the agent pledge level if this hits 400k it would give you 78 minis = $1.54 each making for some very cheap minis. Plus you get the floor tiles for the RPG, would seem a no brainer to me for your purpose.
I can understand the irresistible bit coming in at 500k though. Would get 95 minis = $1.26 each.
I'm not liking their attitude, it has to be said - but the core still looks interesting. Has anyone gone through the myth rules yet - I've heard concerns about readability and quality there.
Bioptic wrote: I'm not liking their attitude, it has to be said - but the core still looks interesting. Has anyone gone through the myth rules yet - I've heard concerns about readability and quality there.
Everything you've heard about the Myth rules readability and quality is true. I've attempted to play the game multiple times already..
With all the fan-rules it has some highly limited replay value.
That said, please try not to say the word "Negative", or anything even slightly criticizing of Megacon Games or their products such as Recon.
It has a tendency to get the kickstarter comments and Megacon forums rustled and unproductive, with broad comments insulting the Dakka.
Yeah, nothing too bad though. Something along the lines of "We realized how useless it was to answer questions on BGG because all the folks there wanted to do was argue'. That is a paraphrase of at least 2-3 KS comments I caught.
I think it had to do mostly with a few BGG members hitting them hard on Myth, but I personally have not read any of the Myth stuff on BGG so it is just an assumption. Part of me sees their point, getting hammered for having released something which is negatively received by some very vocal folks, while you are trying to get funding for a new project, can't be much fun.
Of course, they did kind of bring it on themselves...
Yes, the creators and backers both want no more whining about the Myth rulebook, but they're both touting that Megacon will have the rules "fixes" out before Recon ends, and talking about it in the Recon comments. So, what they really want is to have their cake and eat it too, without any Debbie Downers raining on their parade. "As that is counter-productive to talking about all the Mercs awesomeness."
They got a big boost yesterday from ED-209, but again just a handful of backers. Nothing new for a weekend, but not seeing a peep out of anyone from Adepticon besides Alpharius. I'm still hoping to get some opinions from folks who stopped by, demoed or just looked at Recon and talked to the Megacon guys. Because it's all sunshine and rainbows from Megacon about how the weekend is going. But it was kind of damning that Alpharius wouldn't consider pushing money across the counter for Recon.
I'll give it a few more days to see if Salsa and Chips SG sets this KS on fire again...
So does anyone know if the "rules fixes" for Myth will be a published errata, a reprinted rulebook or what? Really, ti sounds like they got burnt the same way that Sedition Wars did - only using internal esting of the rules because they thought they were hot gak, and then it turned out that all those apparently annoying entitled bastards on BGG actually will break your rules and point out all of the obvious faults in your rules that you're too close/blind to see.
They should be releasing their full beta rules for this game to as well so the BGG crew can tear them apart - so they don't end up like the "totally awesome" Myth...
Azazelx wrote: So does anyone know if the "rules fixes" for Myth will be a published errata, a reprinted rulebook or what? Really, ti sounds like they got burnt the same way that Sedition Wars did - only using internal esting of the rules because they thought they were hot gak, and then it turned out that all those apparently annoying entitled bastards on BGG actually will break your rules and point out all of the obvious faults in your rules that you're too close/blind to see.
They should be releasing their full beta rules for this game to as well so the BGG crew can tear them apart - so they don't end up like the "totally awesome" Myth...
Az,
No idea. I heard it stated that all the ROW shipments would have a corrected rulebook in it. But no idea if they are sending all the US backers a new one. They posted that there would be a couple or three of "How to play" and "getting started" type pdfs released here soon I believe.
They have decided to make sure they aren't "too" close to the rules this time with Recon. They advertised on a fan FB page that is local to Indianapolis for people to come down and playtest Recon. So one guy posted that he went down, and they spent 3 hours reading the rules and playing one game. They said it went smoothly for the rules. But he didn't comment on if he liked it as a game. Just that they had no rules questions playing a very basic run through.
I find it very humorous that they believe they are going to get people who don't know anything about the Mercs TT game by advertising for playtesters on a Mercs TT fansite. They need to go to a mall and have soccer moms see if they can figure out how to play the game. If not, they need to hit the drawing board again.
While that's a start, it's not nearly the same as letting the BGG crowd have a look at and readthrough of the rules in their homes at their leisure, though.
CptJake wrote: I think we can safely assume the BGG crowd will not be included in any plans Mercs has for testing this game.
It's the most popular board-game site, Merc's product was number 1 on their leaderboards for over a week straight from all the talk about it and it has a pretty good rating there.
CptJake wrote: I think we can safely assume the BGG crowd will not be included in any plans Mercs has for testing this game.
It's the most popular board-game site, Merc's product was number 1 on their leaderboards for over a week straight from all the talk about it and it has a pretty good rating there.
Mercs' loss. Well, their loss, and everyone who ends up kickstarting or buying the game, since a small local beta won't iron out all of the bugs, and they're clearly not up to that task themselves.
I don't intend to invest in the full game, but I could see joining this campaign for a couple of the add-ons. They'll need to clarify shipping policies for add-on only pledges before I put in anything, though.
An FAQ and Your First Game booklet will be shipped with Wave 2.
Your harshest criticisms come from your most ardent supporters, and all that. I think BGG *really* likes this game, but is disappointed that the rulebook is so difficult to learn from.
CptJake wrote: I think we can safely assume the BGG crowd will not be included in any plans Mercs has for testing this game.
It's the most popular board-game site, Merc's product was number 1 on their leaderboards for over a week straight from all the talk about it and it has a pretty good rating there.
Azazelx wrote: So does anyone know if the "rules fixes" for Myth will be a published errata, a reprinted rulebook or what? Really, ti sounds like they got burnt the same way that Sedition Wars did - only using internal esting of the rules because they thought they were hot gak, and then it turned out that all those apparently annoying entitled bastards on BGG actually will break your rules and point out all of the obvious faults in your rules that you're too close/blind to see.
They should be releasing their full beta rules for this game to as well so the BGG crew can tear them apart - so they don't end up like the "totally awesome" Myth...
Az,
No idea. I heard it stated that all the ROW shipments would have a corrected rulebook in it. But no idea if they are sending all the US backers a new one. They posted that there would be a couple or three of "How to play" and "getting started" type pdfs released here soon I believe.
They have decided to make sure they aren't "too" close to the rules this time with Recon. They advertised on a fan FB page that is local to Indianapolis for people to come down and playtest Recon. So one guy posted that he went down, and they spent 3 hours reading the rules and playing one game. They said it went smoothly for the rules. But he didn't comment on if he liked it as a game. Just that they had no rules questions playing a very basic run through.
I find it very humorous that they believe they are going to get people who don't know anything about the Mercs TT game by advertising for playtesters on a Mercs TT fansite. They need to go to a mall and have soccer moms see if they can figure out how to play the game. If not, they need to hit the drawing board again.
They have said that those two things will ship with ROW and wave 2 domestic shipments. They have also said that they are reorganizing the RB,.... But it sounds like a full reprint will not be in the box until they do another run of the game (I'm not sure about that, but I can't find anywhere where they have said that they will print that and include it,.... I'd imagine that it's not cheap to do)
From last night:
As to myth: i need to sign off on FAQ and your first game text and we'll share it for feedback. Should be tomorrow, unless it needs more work. Then we work on reorganizing the rules and expanding/clarifying at Boston.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Videos for then Conflict dice game are up. I have not had a chance to look at them yet, ......
ced1106 wrote: An FAQ and Your First Game booklet will be shipped with Wave 2.
Your harshest criticisms come from your most ardent supporters, and all that. I think BGG *really* likes this game, but is disappointed that the rulebook is so difficult to learn from.
ced1106 wrote: An FAQ and Your First Game booklet will be shipped with Wave 2.
Your harshest criticisms come from your most ardent supporters, and all that. I think BGG *really* likes this game, but is disappointed that the rulebook is so difficult to learn from.
So I guess I've got myself a gak ton of figures to join my Bones for Pathfinder, eh? And dungeon tiles. At least until they rewrite the rules coherently...
That review was extremely one sided,....... Strange really.
I can be real,... And say that the rule book for MYTH was a failure,... And that it needs the fixes and rewrites that have been discussed.
But this guy,.... Who claims to be a game designer, but has no games listed as credited,... Just looks like someone on a mission of some sort.
I've played the game,... It's not perfect by any stretch,.. But I played it without a FAQ, and have had lots and lots of fun!!!!, it's not broken in the way that this guys is trying to sell to you.
yamato wrote: That review was extremely one sided,....... Strange really.
I've played the game,... It's not perfect by any stretch,.. But I played it without a FAQ, and have had lots and lots of fun!!!!, it's not broken in the way that this guys is trying to sell to you.
Huh? I bloody love the game but playing it without the FAQ??
You wouldn't even be playing it at all without all the hard-work put into the official FAQ and intro.
Some very recent updates about the rule book work and their lack of BGG activity this past week:
....... we are working on it and endeavor to get the rulebook(s) to the quality that everyone can play.
There are 4 people who work at MegaCon Games: one is an artist and one is a sculptor. That means two people, the same two who wrote the rule book in the first place are working on the solutions. Because we thought we needed outside assets to help, we enlisted the help of others. Creating solutions for everyone takes time.
We actually approved the official FAQ 1.0 today and a "Your First Quest" document today as well. They are both being laid out. When they are done, we'll post them on the Myth KS, our website, and BGG.
We don't look for anyone's blind devotion, and we aren't hiding from BGG. Simply put, we have been working on the solutions and had a major convention for us last week and a major convention this week. It takes time to prep for these types of things. The more time we spent on BGG the less time we could actually create the documents that can solve the problems.
We plan on reorganizing the rules and creating an summarized game round document as well. All told a lot of work to get done. If we went to BGG over the last week, we could only tell them what we had already told them. How much better to produce the documents, put it in everyone's hands, and let them evaluate it so we can make it better.
That is what we have been doing.
Oh, and the Myth videos...the first two are in post production now. We are using Justin (the same genius who is helping with all the videos here) and I suspect that the videos of gameplay will be brilliant. You'll see the game, while tracking things on all the boards.
They are clearly slammed,.... And I'm sure they wish they we able to totally focus on one thing right now,.... (Yeah, yeah,.... Come on out the "I told you so" crowd),.... Let's see what they come up with,...
If you read the posts that I put here from one of the Recon beta testers, then you can see that they are taking a much different approach with the genesis of the Recon rule book,.... So it looks like they have taken some steps based on what they have learned,.... We can all be the judge on the results of what they put out with regard to the revised rule books and documents for Myth as well as videos and such.
yamato wrote: That review was extremely one sided,....... Strange really.
I've played the game,... It's not perfect by any stretch,.. But I played it without a FAQ, and have had lots and lots of fun!!!!, it's not broken in the way that this guys is trying to sell to you.
Huh? I bloody love the game but playing it without the FAQ??
You wouldn't even be playing it at all without all the hard-work put into the official FAQ and intro.
I don't discount the work that was put in by those folks,... But as I had been playing prior to the first shipments going out,.... I know that I was not using the FAQ,... It did not even exist.
I got an advance copy to demo at a convention,.... Had zero dialog with the creators other than them letting me know that they were shipping it to me (meaning, no one showed me how to play or answered any questions),....
I learned the game and played demo sessions with my kid,.... And did full Act sessions at the con for full teams of five,... So I know that it can be done, because I did it.
I'm not defending the state of the book at all,... Just that the game as a whole is not like what that guy on BGG described. It's hard to take someone's opinion on something seriously when they deal in such hyperbole without any middle road feeling of anything in the box,..... Very black and white.
I don't discount the work that was put in by those folks,... But as I had been playing prior to the first shipments going out,.... I know that I was not using the FAQ,... It did not even exist.
I got an advance copy to demo at a convention,.... Had zero dialog with the creators other than them letting me know that they were shipping it to me (meaning, no one showed me how to play or answered any questions),....
I learned the game and played demo sessions with my kid,.... And did full Act sessions at the con for full teams of five,... So I know that it can be done, because I did it.
I'm not defending the state of the book at all,... Just that the game as a whole is not like what that guy on BGG described. It's hard to take someone's opinion on something seriously when they deal in such hyperbole without any middle road feeling of anything in the box,..... Very black and white.
They are clearly slammed,.... And I'm sure they wish they we able to totally focus on one thing right now,.... (Yeah, yeah,.... Come on out the "I told you so" crowd),.... Let's see what they come up with,...
Well, really - why the feth not throw an "I told you so" in here? Because we fething did tell them so, but in another example of their arrogance/blindness to their own flaws (no external playtesting or proofreading by grown-ups), they decided to power on anyway, and launch MERCS while shipping MYTH. Still, if all this negative fallout hurts MERCS then so much the better, as it sounds like Megacon could well do with having their egos taken down a few notches. Having some humility and the need for proper editing and playtesting beaten into their heads while their company is relatively young could only be a positive for them long-term, after all.
It's not luck. They don't randomly send complete copies of the game out to people based on nothing. They send them to reviews and those who they believe that they will get positive press, etc from. Yamato demoed the game at cons, so there's the quid pro quo. The guy at BGG sounds like, you know, someone who bought the base game and expected it to work correctly right out of the box without the need for research and hunting down FAQs and all manner of other bs. Imagine that! A board game that works right out of the box!
Really, pretty much the whole thing,... What wasn't?
Quick Overview: Wade into a dungeon of incoherent rules and trapped cards and try to emerge with any clue of how the heck to play the game.
He admits that he couldn't play the game,... And if so,... Ok,... But then how can you actually write a review of several thousand words?
The parts that he did explain were so wrong and full of indications that he did not actually take any effort whatsoever,.....
Example,.... Found shield on one card,... Could not determine what it meant, thought, maybe there are other cards with "shield",... Looked but couldn't find any,.... There are several cards in the soldier deck with the shield key word,.... So what did he actually do????? Or maybe he's just adding stuff to make it all seem worse than it actually is???
He admits that he couldn't play the game,... And if so,... Ok,... But then how can you actually write a review of several thousand words?
The parts that he did explain were so wrong and full of indications that he did not actually take any effort whatsoever,.....
Example,.... Found shield on one card,... Could not determine what it meant, thought, maybe there are other cards with "shield",... Looked but couldn't find any,....
There are several cards in the soldier deck with the shield key word,.... So what did he actually do????? Or maybe he's just adding stuff to make it all seem worse than it actually is???
None of those cards explain what the Shield keyword does, they're just more examples of it being poorly placed.
I actually had an identical experience to his review, it was completely impossible to finish the game.
But unlike him I was able to utilize the online resources and make the third play-through much better.
...
Actually even with the FAQ I'm still a little confused because some places says May use the shield and some of the FAQ's say must use a shield.
New topic:
How the heck do I use cards with shield? I've been playing it as must but it can really limit the soldier.
So, having played the game a couple times, with fairly minimal FAQ reference, I found the first game painfully difficult to play, but found that, except for a couple points, the second play through went off without many issues.
There are some serious and occasionally embarrassing flaws in Myth, but the BGG crowd seems to be overrreacting for the sake of it...
After getting a few more games in, I hope to write a review.
I saw the miniatures in person, and they very much look as pictured - they didn't look worse, or better, in person.
Some of them look very appropriate for SF, and some look a bit too cartoony and MYTH-like for my tastes.
The whole issue with the MYTH rulebook and being too close to their product and with their attitude about...many things in this KS doesn't help.
What also doesn't help is the fact that there are other KS campaigns going on right now that are competing for these dollars, and they don't have really any issues associated with them, other than costs!
So, in summary, there wasn't anything at Adepticon that would make me run screaming from the project, but then there also wasn't anything there that would make me want to pledge again, or stay in if I was.
All the pledge levels had a little note about needing to include extra $ for shipping outside the US. But I see the FAQ at the bottom did say EU shipping would be from a distributor in Germany. Not much of a news update, then.
In my ideal world they would put an intermediate stretch goal in between not-tango-n-cash at 385 and the expansion at 400. One of the previous updates said they had some additional stuff they could use to power through funding gaps and I would say now's the time to start using them. If they're good, that is. More pop culture knockoffs aren't going to suddenly cause people to pledge if they've been sitting on the fence so far.
I wonder if they saw that SDE:FK had a huge boost after announcing EU shipping and figured they'd try it as well - well make the annoucement again anyway (the SDE boost is due to other factors as well though like $45 of add ons and everyone knowing exactly how much it all costs now).
DaveC wrote: I wonder if they saw that SDE:FK had a huge boost after announcing EU shipping and figured they'd try it as well - well make the annoucement again anyway (the SDE boost is due to other factors as well though like $45 of add ons and everyone knowing exactly how much it all costs now).
I doubt that,..... They just finalized the deal during Adepticon,... They let the info out in a comment,.. But also said that they'd have an official update when they got back from the con.
The update is a good idea,.... But that info needs to be on the front page for visitors to see (having to find it in the updates is not very useful)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dujek wrote: All the pledge levels had a little note about needing to include extra $ for shipping outside the US. But I see the FAQ at the bottom did say EU shipping would be from a distributor in Germany. Not much of a news update, then.
In my ideal world they would put an intermediate stretch goal in between not-tango-n-cash at 385 and the expansion at 400. One of the previous updates said they had some additional stuff they could use to power through funding gaps and I would say now's the time to start using them. If they're good, that is. More pop culture knockoffs aren't going to suddenly cause people to pledge if they've been sitting on the fence so far.
Unfortunately, that tango and cash WAS a surprise stretch goal
I too don't like that stuff, and would like them relegated to the add on section.
I think they may release something else when it hits 385 or 400,..... But I don't recall that they gave any real hints,... But I can't imagine that they'd add another SG to that gap that they had already attempted to fill?
I think the masses want more of the team members added,.... And they got away from that,..... If a member had been added to each of the base four teams throughout each of the 100k ranges along with OpFor and worker minis,.... Then each team would be up to 8,......
Then you could have come back and filled gaps with other things like mission cards, doors, cross overs, etc.
I'd like a lot more civvies and opfors to work with straight out of the box.
What about more rare or unique threats, or more specialized opfor, or security forces with variant loadouts at the various threat levels?
Things to enhance the game, give you more toys to play with, and increase replayability. The kinds of things stretch goals should be including rather than Tango and Cash.
I had high hopes of seeing more hi tech stuff like the robocop cameos.
They did say that the SG sf2 and sf3 minis were different poses with different rules,... Sot hat is a plus,... But should be evident in the SG graphics!!!!!
What about more rare or unique threats...The kinds of things stretch goals should be including rather than Tango and Cash
more rare or unique threats...should be including rather than Tango and Cash
rare or unique...Tango and Cash.
I find this post intensely amusing.
I don't care for Tango and Cash either, but at least they're both rare AND unique. I would rather have more common and generic threats, personally. Or, I'd rather have different characters, there's much better bad Stallone moves and better bad Kurt Russel movies to choose from.
So they're going to better flesh out the SGs to the end when it hits $400k. I hope they sketch out some better SGs leading up to $500k, or it isn't going to get that far. And unless there's a whole pot of people that have been holding out, I don't know that the USCR SG guy is going to be unlocked...which is too bad.
But they need to wake up if they want this to go much farther. But I guess if this makes them happy, they'll add a few more dollars, which will be equalled out by the people who drop.
Nice to hear confirmation on the reworking that they are doing on the entire MYTH rule book in addition to the new official FAQ that went up today,.... And that the new RB will be available as a PDF and then later as a reprint during the future KS,.... But the most interesting part is confirmation that they will be doing some deck reprints at that time as well.
Just an FYI for those who are leaning on how they are handling MYTH as an indicator for this project.
Yep, cameo figures are going to be game controlled OPFOR for your MERCs to kill. That makes them even less interesting to me. I suspect any mechanisms for controlling the OPFOR are going to work best with generic levels, adding a Super Special Movie Cameo will get some modifier, but won't end up feeling like you are really up against your childhood hero.
At least in Zombicide you get to play the cameo figures...
Just seems a poorly thought out way to include these figures in gameplay.
I'd like to know more,... There was some talk about just how they might work early on when the first ones were revealed,.... For instance, some might assist you if played right,.... But if you went on "spray and pray" reserve action and they are revealed,... You would shoot them and then they'd be fully OpFor. If you did not, perhaps there was a way to win them over? And they might assist you.
That is the kind of info that this campaign really needs!
What you are suggesting may be feasible in an RPG, but in a board game, you would need mechanics to do that without really slowing up play. And 'game controlled' bad guys really don't work if the decision matrix gets too complicated. I've not seen anything released about Recon yet which implies they would be able to successfully do so.
Would love to be proven wrong, but with 8 days to go, and part of that MERCs will be at some con, I doubt they'll find time to share that type of info. Again, this is the type of info they should have had ready to go prior to KS start.
Yeah,.... I agree,... Easy enough to decide how to turn them your way,... A bit more to explain how they will work with you,... In MYTH you get to control the Allies,.. Deciding what they do, so beyond the basic stats and abilities on the card, it's not too deep.
Word is that they left for PaxEast last night,... And that the next update from the show would be more details about mission pack specifics.
Question for anyone who plays (or is familiar with) the current MERCs game.
In the KS comments, a guy mentioned:
Behemoth Sniper Combo. The sniper has a shot that anchors a mini and the behemoth just Storms down the map with his one MP and his mighty hammer to F Stuff Up!
I guess one of the factions has a sniper that instead of killing, some how 'anchors' or 'binds' his target. That faction then has the figure with the big hammer that can go up and bop the anchored target.
That just seems silly. If I can hit a guy and 'anchor' him, why not just hit him with something that caps him? Why waste another team member's actions to have to close with him to cap him? Why, as a sniper, would I encourage another team member to get into my line of fire? It may be cool for the game, but I have trouble suspending disbelief to figure out the benefit. It just goes against years of training, and as a game mechanic seems wasteful. Needing two team members to cap a guy that the hit from the first should have taken care of seems wasteful.
Is it just a cool thing, or is there some logic I'm too slow to get?
CptJake wrote: Question for anyone who plays (or is familiar with) the current MERCs game.
In the KS comments, a guy mentioned:
Behemoth Sniper Combo. The sniper has a shot that anchors a mini and the behemoth just Storms down the map with his one MP and his mighty hammer to F Stuff Up!
I guess one of the factions has a sniper that instead of killing, some how 'anchors' or 'binds' his target. That faction then has the figure with the big hammer that can go up and bop the anchored target.
That just seems silly. If I can hit a guy and 'anchor' him, why not just hit him with something that caps him? Why waste another team member's actions to have to close with him to cap him? Why, as a sniper, would I encourage another team member to get into my line of fire? It may be cool for the game, but I have trouble suspending disbelief to figure out the benefit. It just goes against years of training, and as a game mechanic seems wasteful. Needing two team members to cap a guy that the hit from the first should have taken care of seems wasteful.
Is it just a cool thing, or is there some logic I'm too slow to get?
There is an anchoring sniper but In game you'd never do that with the behemoth. The model is obscenely slow and has amazing firepower, his entire purpose is to basically be a mobile heavy gun emplacement controlling entire areas of the map with suppression fire. So while you can do that, it is actually the worst idea I've ever heard of tactically. A huge waste of the behemoth.
As for the anchor gun, it exists because UCSR have very low mobility but very good lockdown and suppression to allow them to get into position and the separate models from the group. One on one UCSR wins fights so the objective is to force the player to leave models behind and fight your slow wall or force them to split up to flank and achieve objectives leaving the model to die. Or to stay and fight team on team straight fight but UCSR tends to win those so a bad plan.
But again, you can't get slower than dead. Why would I 'anchor' someone when I could hit him with something to kill him.
I honestly don't see the purpose except for crowd/riot control, and even then it is not a purpose I would waste a trained sniper to achieve.
Thanks for the answer though. I don't mean that sarcastically, I really do appreciate it. I just can't wrap my head around why anchoring vice killing would be preferred in a scenario where I am trying to kill the other side.
CptJake wrote: But again, you can't get slower than dead. Why would I 'anchor' someone when I could hit him with something to kill him.
I honestly don't see the purpose except for crowd/riot control, and even then it is not a purpose I would waste a trained sniper to achieve.
Thanks for the answer though. I don't mean that sarcastically, I really do appreciate it. I just can't wrap my head around why anchoring vice killing would be preferred in a scenario where I am trying to kill the other side.
Honestly, because it's a game that is not 100% realistic. I mean, 40k has chainsaw swords and demons, Infinity has ninjas, kungfu monks, werewolves and claymore wielding highlanders (which makes absolutely no sense), and so on. MERCS is not 100% realistic it's just more realistic than most sci-fi minis games on the market.
If you want a more gameplay/story reason the best I can do is two things. Firstly the armor makes one shot kills much much harder and thus being able to immobilize a target and get lots of shots off on a stationary target is better. Secondly gameplay wise the anchor gun has a much higher rate of fire than sniper rifles.
It is not easy to cap anything with one shot,... And the tabletop game is all about coordinated actions,... And how best to use your team's mix of talents together.
Again, my opinions about what is realistic near future-ish type of game is colored by personal experiences. A sniper SHOULD be able to cap something with one shot, that is what a sniper does. The 'anchor' mechanism seems very silly to me.
It would be like making claymores that instead of showering the kill zone with ball bearings ripping through the target, designing them to shoot out something to tangle the targets feet so that then you could open up with the M240. Screw that, blow as many to hell as possible and them open up with the 240 to take out what is left.
The concept of giving a sniper a weapon that does not kill just doesn't make sense to me.
I get it, MERCs is a game, and this is one TINY chunk of it (and won't likely be in Recon which is what I am getting anyway). Not a big deal. The whole 'shoot to wound' thing has never made sense to me, and this is an extension of that.
I was really just curios because of the dynamic between the sniper and the behemoth I mentioned above.
I'll move past it, and (hopefully) be happy clearing enemy office buildings room by room with what I get in Recon.
As a game realism has to be sacrificed to make a good game. With five models on the table one shot kills would make the game "Whoever gets LOS first auto wins unless they roll the dice badly and miss." One shot kills aren't so bad if you have 100 models on the table but with 5 damage has to be more incremental for the game to work properly.
Besides, why even have powered armor if it can't take a single shot? Might as well run around naked. (Aside from stopping fragmentation weapons, but then that makes frag worthless and can't be in the game same with everything but high powered penetration weapons so liberties are taken for the purposes of diversity of attack types and play styles.
If it makes you feel a bit better the Waza sniper has super heavy rounds and has the ability to oneshot models with a roll of 10 so there's that.
CptJake wrote: A sniper SHOULD be able to cap something with one shot, that is what a sniper does.
I think the problem is that what the MERCS world refers to as a Sniper is not the same as what we mean when we refer to a Sniper. Considering the size of the board and the numbers involved a real sniper wouldn't even be on the board, and would be off board waiting for the right shot, not be done skirmishing with the others. It is a semantic problem, I think.
CptJake wrote: A sniper SHOULD be able to cap something with one shot, that is what a sniper does.
I think the problem is that what the MERCS world refers to as a Sniper is not the same as what we mean when we refer to a Sniper. Considering the size of the board and the numbers involved a real sniper wouldn't even be on the board, and would be off board waiting for the right shot, not be done skirmishing with the others. It is a semantic problem, I think.
Ahtman, I agree with you. The guy on the board in Mercs is more likely someone with an ACOG, not a sniper.
CptJake, you're probably throwing too many real life things at them. They don't look at ambushes as a choice of style, such as L-shaped or Linear. Merely as a scenario involving one side being surprised. And claymores should be daisy chained, when they go off the fire support line kicks in with all 3 240s!
Not to derail the claymore conversation but on the sniper note tactically the snipers are probably closest to anti-material rifles in MERCS. They're all long to reload and aim high damage weapons. In fact they're the go to weapon for a number of armies for destroying the behemoth as conventional weapons don't even damage it.
Way higher rate of fire..... besides that not much of a reason I suppose. Probably best not to dwell on it too much. If it makes you feel better just imagine him as not a sniper but a type of support troop. I mean, he's way heavier armored than other factions snipers and basically is an assault support both rules and fluff wise. Sniper is just a poor title choice when I think about it.
I know that he is called a Sniper,.. But he's quite different from the others in the game.
A couple of notes,.... First, it is not just an anchoring mechanic,... The shot has the potential to do damage as well. Second: while it has the better roll-to-hit ability of other sniper weapons,... It is unrestricted with regard to rate of fire,... The big LRK weapons with the higher weapon strength have to at least Load for a round, and some Load and Aim.
Isoulle wrote: Way higher rate of fire..... besides that not much of a reason I suppose. Probably best not to dwell on it too much. If it makes you feel better just imagine him as not a sniper but a type of support troop. I mean, he's way heavier armored than other factions snipers and basically is an assault support both rules and fluff wise. Sniper is just a poor title choice when I think about it.
So they're really like Carl Gustav gunners (recoilless rifle), and some have a Nickelodeon slime round to anchor people with...I think the mechanic works in the near-future tone of powered armor close quarter fights.
Azazelx wrote: How many Myth-related stretch goals have been unlocked at this stage?
-the witch hunter-looking Agent
-the hero with goggles and a crossbow
-the zombies (won't be exclusives)
...right now, the hero is really the only incentive. $40 is a bit steep for me. That said, if someone were interested in selling the Hero (and maybe the agent), I'd be interested in a PM...
Yeah... I can only assume that the $40 tag assumed they'd be hitting 6-800k and they were padding it for when it got big, since there were myth goals at each 100k mark after 2.
Yeah,... Cool tidbit about being able to add extra SG material in the PM later,..... Like if you wanted to buy more not-robocop minis.
Even with what is there,.. There is still so much more to cover,.... I think many really want to see just how different the other factions play. They can say it all they want, but potential backers want to know HOW they are different. The EU inc video was good at showing that,... They should at the very least already have up info about the other two factions from the Assassination. Protocol box as well.
The ability to add extra SG stuff could kill the Myth pledge. Unless a lot more for it gets unlocked, it is probably gonna be a lot better to have a buddy getting a full Recon package buy you the couple of Myth figures with the pledge manager rather than cough up $40.
I assume that means they really intend to plus up that Myth pledge...
Of course, guys like me with no interest in Myth are going to whine like little girls with skinned knees if they don't concurrently plus up our pledges.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for the latest update, I liked it a lot.
Now they need to really break out the details of each mission pack for me. Since I likely will not be able to afford all of them I would like to see what really differentiates each, different missions, what the office workers are, how the faction plays... Heck, even for the known mission packs, there are still MERC figures which are unknown. Do they really not know which 5 from the faction we'll get?
Posting the update text for those who aren't backers. Agree that this should have been update #1, but at least it's great info. Makes the game actually sound interesting beyond just raw mechanics.
One thing i'm not clear on is that the descriptions of missions mention 'rewards' and then they say there won't be leveling up or a campaign. Unclear if the 'rewards' are the item cards they also mention.
EDIT i noticed that they mention half the missions form a mini-campaign for a faction, i'm betting the rewards are for said mini-campaign. Nothing you can carry to the next campaign but at least there is some progression within one? Hope they post more info on that. Campaigns are a good way to make a game into one that gets played regularly instead of once in a while.
All the Juicy Bits
22 comments
36 likes
This is the update where I attempt to answer and give details on all the stuff backers have asked.
What do Mission Packs do?
They provide extra stuffs for the base games AND give players new MERCS factions to play. Each MegaCon play so different, the game changes considerably.
In addition, each Mission Pack provides unique a Breach & Clear tile to all Recon games. These Breach & Clear tiles can then be grouped and drawn randomly so the MERCS do not know what kind of B&C they are going into.
Mission Packs also have an extra Mission Pack important structure tile. This is a large tile and can be used in any structure, for any group or game. The difference is this tile is significant to the unique missions present in the pack.
About half the Missions in each pack can be used by any MegaCon. The other half provide a linked mini-campaign for the MERCS team provided in the pack. All the Blood Contagion Mission Pack missions are used by any MERCS team.
Finally, each Mission Pack provides special Employees that can be used by all the game. This broadens the importance of the Capture and Interrogate mechanic, as MERCS can find the objectives quicker. However, each special Employees has unique rules and interrogation threshholds.
Tell us more about the missions?
Half the Missions in each game form a mini-campaign for the MERCS. In the base game, there are dueling objectives in each Mission. In the Mission Packs, they are singular objective missions.
Missions have a specific structure:
Briefing – quick framing text
Recon – first objective
B&C – B&C tile info
Evac – Winning conditions.
Reward – What you get. Also mission continuation name.
The Briefing is a short bit of text that sets up the mission. This text isn’t as expansive as Myth. It frames the mission.
URGENT: A neighboring MegaCon has infiltrated Shuisky’s lab. Shuisky is too valuable. Find him and escort him to safety. If the other MegaCon has him, do not let him escape. Use any means necessary.
Recon provides players with a location that must be interacted with. Locations are things like: open terminals, CFO, or a hostage that must be rescued. These are the first things the MERCS are looking for.
The Recon text for the above mission briefing would be:
Find Shuisky. The MERCS will have a set amount of rounds to find Shuisky. If they fail to find him in that time, then the opposing MERCS have discovered him and attempt to flee.
The B&C provides players with the Breach & Clear setup for the Recon location. If the Mission calls for a specific B&C tile it is listed here. OPFOR locations will be communicated through graphics and numbers.
Evac represents how the mission is won. Oftentimes, it is a split victory similar to the Myth success and failure resolutions. For the above mission:
Escort Shuisky to safety. To escape the building with Shuisky, Shuisky must be alive and the MERCS with Shuisky must get to the northeast corner of the structure.
Kill Shuisky. If the opposing MegaCon have Shuisky, then the opposing MERCS must be killed or Shuisky killed.
The rewards change based off how the MERCS win the mission. In addition, they can lead to different missions or different circumstances in the next mission.
What types of missions can there be?
All kinds. Many are centered on combat, but not all. We have a couple surprises. The missions are created by pairing two complimentary ideas, then adding purpose. Here are some general ideas:
Capture and Escape – MERCS need to find a person and get them out of the building alive.
Sweep and Destroy – MERCS need to kill a specific group of OPFOR and destroy a location.
Protect and Escort – MERCS need to protect fleeing Employees and ensure they escape the building.
Occupy and Defend – MERCS need to defend the building against another MERCS group.
Escort and Infiltrate – MERCS need to escort in an informant and plant information certifying him.
Infiltrate and Kill – MERCS need to enter a building without increasing the Security Level past a certain point and kill a specific person.
Plant and Destroy – MERCS need to find a specific location and plant an explosive device.
Missions can have a lot of variety before the specifics of a mission are added that make it unique. Almost all missions have special twists that differentiate them from other similar missions.
Can the MERCS “level up”?
Recon doesn’t have a continuing campaign where MERCS increase in power. However, we have a stretch goal (not revealed/not unlocked) that provide Recon players with one time use power cards that are earned from successful missions or interacting with non-objective locations.
Examples would be interacting with the R&D department and getting the experimental ammo card. This card can be kept by the player between missions. If used before a reload, all the ammo in the current clip receives bonus dice.
There are close to 30 of these “power” cards (we don’t have an official uniformly liked name yet). They are all pretty cool and are as level up as Recon gets.
Are you guys having a pledge manager and what will I be able to do after the KS closes?
We are going to have a pledge manager. Backers will be able to add product afterwards and upgrade their pledge level. In addition, several KS exclusive stretch goals will be able to be added-on after the fact. So if you wanted multiples of say a CPP mini (but only get one in the Kickstarter), you could add additional in the PM. This is to help those backers that are going into the KS with additional people and each backer wants a stretch goal (of if a single person wants many of one thing).
What about all the members of a team in the base game? Mission Packs?
This question has come up often, especially in regards to Snipers. It is certainly our goal to reveal all the factions and all the members. We’ll have to get deeper into the SGs to do that, and we won’t artificially put in MERCS or teams we haven’t got to. However, I can guarantee all the Snipers will be available.
Several more Mission Packs will be added/revealed. In addition, we are going to offer a special “all-in” mission pack add-on for one price. If a backer adds it, they will get all Mission Packs unlocked. It will be priced competitively. This will be added in the last days. Currently, it would not make sense and doesn’t offer a significant price advantage.
Are there any more Myth cross overs?
Yes.
Will EIC show up?
Possibly/Yes. We have to move past the current SGs.
Will the full GCC show up?
Possibly/Yes. We have to move past the current SGs.
That is all for tonight. Sorry for a big update with not a lot of images. We simply do not have the capacity here. We’ll be at PAX through Sunday (then drive through the night). I will continue to communicate through my phone, but I am also giving demos most of the day. The hall here runs from 10:00 am to Midnight.
Here are some shots of MCG at PAX. These were taken early in the show before we were all swamped and no pics could be had. Tomorrow I'll grab a picture of the hall in the afternoon and evening. Wall-to-wall.
Hmm, that was a great update. That was a lot of useful information that everyone has been clamoring for.
However, that really had zero enticement to attract new money. Not sure that the stretch goals are driving this, and I think everyone thought they were going to adjust/add to the SGs.
yamato wrote: Yeah,... Cool tidbit about being able to add extra SG material in the PM later,..... Like if you wanted to buy more not-robocop minis..
So, if I wanted just to get the drones ($5), ED 209 ($15) and Robocop (???), I could get them through the Pledge Manager, or latch onto an actual backer's pledge and order through his or her pledge manager? Or do I need to scramble for the money now and try to find someone willing to add some stuff to his order?
Sounds like funds can be added later,... The new news was that you could add additional copies of not only add on items, but also stretch goal items,..... This was something that was not available with MYTH.
This is an interesting thing,.... Let's say that you are in for the MYTH only pledge,.... But maybe you really liked something in the stretch goals that was not part of your pledge (like the RoboCop mini),.... You could then add it for a cost.
Well, the latest update sounds pretty good. Just have to see if they follow through on it.
Bundles work great, and knowing what the roadmap looks like would be great. But with only 5 days left, if they don't do a big update tomorrow, I don't see this going much beyond $550 maybe...
PAX update is below. Not much info, other than a 'we are too busy to post more info but we will totally post more info later'.
The total $$ has been increasing steadily for a few days now, I assume it's a convention-related boost combined with the bonus expansion pack stretch goal getting hit and luring more people in.
Update #38
Apr 12 2014
PAX East Day 2
9 comments
39 likes
Man what a day. Extremely busy.
At one point we had 3 demos of Myth, 2 Recon, 1 Conflict, and 2 Tabletop. We really moved product AND added to the backers or potential backers. Everyone really had a good time. Here some pics of the shenanigans.
Demos comin' out of all the nooks and crannies.Demos comin' out of all the nooks and crannies.
In addition, we had some good conversations with backers about “all-in” add-ons for Mission Packs and an “all-in” Recon pledge. We are in discussions. Stay tuned.
We did 4 interviews between the 3 partners and really had a lot of excited gamers. I know some of you are tiring of the lack of daily commentary from us, but like Myth, these two conventions (in successive weeks) really bring a lot of exposure and ultimately drive up the total a great deal.
We’ll reveal the next group of stretches early next week. We have some fantastic stuff ahead and you’ve earned some love.
The 425 stretch was just 4 workers and a saboteur with a wonky pose. Glad they hit it - yay freebies - but not very exciting. Heck we don't really know what the game mechanics for the saboteur are.
Next stretch is 450k for 4 more secfor III minis, in two poses. That's desirable. After that it's 475k for some more special employee minis, and 500k for some bonus zombies and unlocking the paid zombie add-on.
Hoping they add more intermediate stretches and/or reveal some further ones that are appealing. They've grown solidly the last few days but now that the conventions are past I fear they may stagnate again.
well, it is time for them to hit with some serious updates,..... they should have some more stretches released and some new information and add-ons today,....
I was a Myth completionist, now thanks to Recon I won't be.
Can't justify the cost for the Myth Only pledge (~half that of the SDE pledge.)
As I won't have a complete set of Myth, I suppose I'll find it easy enough to skip the next Myth kickstarter if it's a shadow of the first.
I was looking forward to Recon launching, but with SDE:FK's potential value I'll have to side with that instead.
PomWallaby wrote: I was a Myth completionist, now thanks to Recon I won't be.
Can't justify the cost for the Myth Only pledge (~half that of the SDE pledge.)
As I won't have a complete set of Myth, I suppose I'll find it easy enough to skip the next Myth kickstarter if it's a shadow of the first.
I was looking forward to Recon launching, but with SDE:FK's potential value I'll have to side with that instead.
You could always see if someone that is pledging would be willing to add on extra of the Myth components for you, but that will depend on the cost of adding them.
PomWallaby wrote: I was a Myth completionist, now thanks to Recon I won't be.
Can't justify the cost for the Myth Only pledge (~half that of the SDE pledge.)
As I won't have a complete set of Myth, I suppose I'll find it easy enough to skip the next Myth kickstarter if it's a shadow of the first.
I was looking forward to Recon launching, but with SDE:FK's potential value I'll have to side with that instead.
You could always see if someone that is pledging would be willing to add on extra of the Myth components for you, but that will depend on the cost of adding them.
My circle of gamers all pulled out of Recon at various stages. Most of their reasons are covered by other posters earlier. It's just a shame that it's a handful of myth figures have more pull than Recon itself.
But it isn't over yet. Maybe there will be something crazy in the last 48hrs.
$40 for the 6 figures and hero deck are nothing to write home about (@ the $500k mark),...... but if they have some additional MYTH content above that (which they say they have), they it could become a good deal.
PsychoticStorm wrote: 3 days left and they do not post an update for passing a strech goal, been at pax is no excuse.
They really screwed up their timing for this launch. They should have finished shipping MERCS - and Adepticon and PAX would have still been on during their campaign, but PAX wouldn't have been distracting potential backers (and themselves) while the campaign ends...
More than that, they barely gave any information. They only explained the basic mechanics of the game and didn't provide any specifics as to how the different teams play.
Even now, they only provide info for CCC and EU. How about the other teams? Why should I pledge for this game when they cannot bother to give a proper update. Update #37 was great...except why was it update #37? That should have been in the first 5.
Now they are waiting for pictures before the next update...WHY? Are they seriously going to put up more stretch goals that barely add anything new to the game at 550k+? They probably won't even get to 500k based on how the last 2 weeks went.
I hope they have some more team info,.... Because you are dead right,.... That is info that should have already been up.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
yamato wrote: They just confirmed that the extra unlocked MERCS team members will be added to the retail boxes (not an extra purchase when it goes to retail)
My mistake on this,.... This was a confusing set of comments on the KS page,..... No additions to the retail box. All stretch goal items are either available later for sale, or are exclusives to KS.
meh, anyone sensible would think those 4 Stretch Goals that added 2 extra minis to the teams in the base game would probably be a retail box upgrade...They need to clearly label their stretch goals as "Expansion" and not offer it like they are currently.
On a side note...what's with the ridiculous number of addons in this Kickstarter? In Myth everything (for the most part) was free, now they are charging us every penny. Guess after 1 successful Kickstarter they figure they can get away with asking for much more money for a whole lot less.
arog wrote: On a side note...what's with the ridiculous number of addons in this Kickstarter? In Myth everything (for the most part) was free, now they are charging us every penny. Guess after 1 successful Kickstarter they figure they can get away with asking for much more money for a whole lot less.
Or they gave away to much with Myth and they don't want to make that mistake again. They may also be over-correcting as well, but it is still a good deal just on minis at this point.
As a board game player...I don't care for unique sculpts. They could all look identical for all I care. I guess they haven't figured out if this is a board game or a TT kickstarter I suppose.
Update looks interesting..but still no more info about the game and more stretch goals that will be missed most probably.
Holy gak Batman, are these guys full of themselves.
I know some people will be happy about the snipers, but none of those goals are making me want to back this, AND they didn't put anything in there for the Myth folks, just making their $40 pledge seem worse, as there are no goals in sight, and I don't see breaking that $600k to make that all-in $100 better.
I don't know what they're saving for the second half of their update tomorrow...
Well,... That's where they said the MYTH content will be,....
I think it will get there,... But they really need to put up the info on how the other factions play,... It's so close to being awesome,... The masses want more info,... And they've been clamoring for weeks about it.
95% of the commentors on the Kickstarter are so busy sucking the proverbial chicken they cannot bother to understand why the Kickstarter won't succeed.
They are asking for beta CONFLICT rules...a game that is just thrown in for free and had more than enough rules in the 45 minute video. I have been pushing Mercs to give more information about Recon, the game they are trying to Kickstart from what I can tell, about the different teams, potentially about loadouts, about missions etc.
These people commenting have blown up so much smoke up Megacon's ass they cannot bother to pay attention. They honestly think they are going to get $200-300k in the next 3 days.
Guess this is an important lesson to all future Kickstarters. Kickstart 1 game. Don't bundle new games at an additional level. If it is an established game, go for it. But don't try to Kickstart 2 or 3 new games at a time. You are going to spread yourself thin and can't keep up with demand the pledgers will want.
WIll the snipers come with the cards making them usable in Recon? How will snipers work in Recon?
And again, just like theFCC saboteur, can I use them in Recon without having their faction? Or are they indirectly stating, feth You Recon folks, this is all about the Table Top game?
CptJake wrote: WIll the snipers come with the cards making them usable in Recon? How will snipers work in Recon?
And again, just like theFCC saboteur, can I use them in Recon without having their faction? Or are they indirectly stating, feth You Recon folks, this is all about the Table Top game?
They say that the models will come with Recon and TT 2.o rules.
arog wrote: 95% of the commentors on the Kickstarter are so busy sucking the proverbial chicken they cannot bother to understand why the Kickstarter won't succeed.
They are asking for beta CONFLICT rules...a game that is just thrown in for free and had more than enough rules in the 45 minute video. I have been pushing Mercs to give more information about Recon, the game they are trying to Kickstart from what I can tell, about the different teams, potentially about loadouts, about missions etc.
These people commenting have blown up so much smoke up Megacon's ass they cannot bother to pay attention. They honestly think they are going to get $200-300k in the next 3 days.
Guess this is an important lesson to all future Kickstarters. Kickstart 1 game. Don't bundle new games at an additional level. If it is an established game, go for it. But don't try to Kickstart 2 or 3 new games at a time. You are going to spread yourself thin and can't keep up with demand the pledgers will want.
Uh, just a thought, but hasn't the kickstarter already reached enough funding to go ahead and produce the game? I understand they could make more money(and from what I've seen, they won't be making any of mine), but isn't the kickstarter already successful as-is?
arog wrote: 95% of the commentors on the Kickstarter are so busy sucking the proverbial chicken they cannot bother to understand why the Kickstarter won't succeed.
Well,.... I'll agree that they are all a bit blind to reality,... But I think you are a bit harsh on your judgment,......
It may suffer,... And could have been bigger,...... But it has indeed already succeeded,.... Even if it ended right now!
They still have a shot,... If they put out the right information,..... What the fence sitters see when the go to the page in the final 48 hours will make the KS what it ends up being,.... Have the right stuff there,... Maybe a cross promotion like they did with KD for MYTH,..... And who knows how big it could get,.....
$200-$300k in the next 3 days,...... Easily possible,..... But it would be much more attainable if the info that backers have been begging for would be posted.
Tell people how the different factions play, how the special characters work (even if it's not final)!!!!!!! This is what the fence sitters have been asking for,... Give it to them, and it will skyrocket.
It is "successful". But I think this could have really gone up, close to ~800k. To be honest, if it's not a first game (like Myth was) I think most Kickstarters are only successful if they fund over 1000% of their initial pledge.
Honestly, these stretch goals probably should have come sooner in the campaign. They should've been throwing in the expansion packs with pretty much every goal, that way they could at least ensure that the majority of them would be available by the campaign's end. The Megacon warehouse tile? That should have been one of the backer stretches.
At least one more of the faction add-ons, probably USCR should have been a freebie.
Of course, stretch goals also should've started at $75,000 rather than waiting to see how high they could get it to go before putting them in.
Overall, I think there were some poor decisions made with this kickstarter. Some though, i don't mind so much. I actually rather like the sniper stretch goal. Sure, I'll wind up with figures for factions I don't own, but it's like a faction sampler, which is kind of cool.
Azazelx wrote: Nod. It's clearly a successful campaign by any sensible metric. It's just not what it could have potentially been.
No, not really its a failure, if the product hits retail as is it will fail dramatically, as a boardgame at least and its life a s a cheap way to get merc minis... lets say that it will be cheaper to scrap the boardgame and repack the minis done in plastic in boxes.
Now its potential was great and if it was done right, it would be their gateway game to their main IP, the failures to realize golden opportunities on this one are so many its mind boggling.
CptJake wrote: WIll the snipers come with the cards making them usable in Recon? How will snipers work in Recon?
And again, just like theFCC saboteur, can I use them in Recon without having their faction? Or are they indirectly stating, feth You Recon folks, this is all about the Table Top game?
They say that the models will come with Recon and TT 2.o rules.
Which does not answer my other question. Can they (snipers and the 'free' saboteur) be used if you don't shell out for the mission packs with that faction? Or is Recon really just secondary to the tabletop game?
arog wrote: 95% of the commentors on the Kickstarter are so busy sucking the proverbial chicken they cannot bother to understand why the Kickstarter won't succeed.
.
The KS is a massive success already
Now it potentially (probably) could be a bigger success if it had been handled differently but the amount of money they've already got is huge
arog wrote: 95% of the commentors on the Kickstarter are so busy sucking the proverbial chicken they cannot bother to understand why the Kickstarter won't succeed.
.
The KS is a massive success already
Now it potentially (probably) could be a bigger success if it had been handled differently but the amount of money they've already got is huge
As big of a sucess as this is or could be, they failed to excit me and keep me interested through the course of the campaign. As of yesterday I pulled my pledge and will be giving that money to Soda Pop.
.
cut it.
