Please hurry up and start this KS, I know it's planned for the 4th Quarter but the closer to Christmas the less funds people are likely to have.

BIG!!! He will be around 50mm.


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Denilsta.... I was originally planning for August but it was always going to be a push. It will definitely be September.

Kaine Larson wrote:
BIG!!! He will be around 50mm.


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Denilsta.... I was originally planning for August but it was always going to be a push. It will definitely be September.

Excellent news!

Since I'm not into fantasy, I'm only following this thread and anticipating the kickstarter based on how impressive the art and world-building have been, which I mean as a compliment. You really haven't dropped the ball yet, and I admire the creative risks you're willing to take to make your world distinctive, rather than following the safer path of producing a slew of generic goblins, undead, etc. that aren't all that inspired but blend in more easily.

Everything rests on the sculpts, of course, but so far this is a much more compelling fantasy world than I've seen in a long time.

Now that guy looks very intimidating indeed, if I saw him on a video game I'd be preparing for a very frustrating fight, if I saw him in real life I'd be running!

Again....Great concept!

Vermonter... thank you for your kind words. Its nice to hear appreciation from someone who isnt even a fantasy fan!

Paradigm - I would also run. Sounds like a plan!

Fantastic concept. Can't wait to get one. I love the horns/ armor curving around the head.

Our artist Grigor loves putting horns in all the models!! I think they look great too. The next artwork to come is the Goblin King and his guards, a goblin Wolf raider, Hobgoblin Hex Shaman and a goblin head cleaver!

September works well for me, Dwarf King's Quest runs in August so I'll be able to budget better without two kickstarters I want running in the same month. And it'll give you more time to get some great sculpts to show off.

It also means I might end up with a bunch of cool terrain from that KS to use for this game.

And, besides that, over $4m was spent on the dwarven forge dungeon terrain so there's a lot of people out there with a terrain collection that works for this game.

And then, with battlesystems, there will be even more people with a set of underground terrain.

It's definitely quite a good setting to develop since dungeons and caverns are something that has gotten a lot of attention lately.

Looking forward to the new sculpts! The hulk and bugbear both look incredible, getting a bit of a Kingdom Death vibe from the Hulk, although in a way that has some warped logic to it rather than being entirely demented.

Any idea on the format of the skirmish game at the moment? I'd love something where I could run small games on a 2x2 mat with lots of terrain. Or 3x3, I guess. I do like the small size format though, it's one of the things that makes Deadzone great, a game doesn't require much space and can be played in a typical LGS where the main focus these days is often card games rather than wargames.

The game is called Underdeep and is a simple D6 system based on a roll and compare system. The results you roll can be traded in to activate different powers. There is also a random activation system that does not allow the active player to know when his activations are over! The game is scaleable but works well with between 15 and 60 figures. We have had a lot of debate over counters on the table and we have decided to use only health chits which would mean there are no more counters or wound markers than a game of WFB.

The game will ordinarily be played with lots of terrain but with large caverns, swamps and isolated surface farmsteads being the primary battlegrounds. I had not envisioned the use of dungeons as such but I am sure this can work. Most creatures have multiple wounds so even low level creatures can be wounded. There is also a critical hit system.

There will be some downloadable rules soon. I need them play tested by the community throughout the KS!

Are you planning for all the factions to be traditionally eeeeevil/chaotic types?

What I'm asking is, will we get dwarves at some point?

Definitely. I loooooove dwarf models. The idea will be to make two Sunsiders factions to begin with. They will be Dwarven Mithril Hunters and Sunsiders who will be a human based kingdom (Tellia) with additional models like elves, paladins etc as addons. We hope to eventually release a mass combat version of the game where more human and Demi human kingdoms will be added with additional rules for the Underdeep skirmish game!

I'm hoping those dwarves and humans fit in aesthetically with what we've seen so far.

Human and Dwarven models are a dime a dozen, so I really hope they've got their own vibe going for them, much like the goblins.

Definitely going to be getting a bugbear or two. I love models in thick heavy armor!

Any word on what currency we can expect the KS to run in? British Pound?

I have been advised to run in US dollars like Mantic have done. I have always envisioned running it in GBR pounds but I am still a little on the fence. What do you guys think? Does it make too much difference?

They look great! Would love to design trays for them.

Most of their customer base are USD spenders, right? I'm running my KS in GBP.

Mantic are based in Nottingham in the UK.

I should have calcified.

I am assuming most of their customer base are USD spenders.

I like seeing US dollars because I tend to get a little careless when Pounds are involved. I always forget what the current exchange rates are until it's too late.

Calcification is a rather extreme reaction!


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HT - Surely thats a reason to keep it GBP

Heh, it is late and I have been messaging many people, designing Zombicide trays are tricky...

If your range takes off you'll probably find that most of your customer base are also USD spenders, or at least more comfortable with it as a benchmark than GBR.

Dollar denominated campaigns tend to do better. Basically, you want the purchase to be as easy as possible for people who live where you think the majority of funding will come from. You would be hard pressed to argue that is anywhere other than the USA.

You do need to be careful when it comes to currency exchange since by running it in USD you will be bearing the exchange risk rather than asking your US based backers to bear it. Running in USD even when you are a UK business is a sign of a "big" campaign and is a signal that you are a professional company that can deal with cross border logistics problems.

Personally, I instantly dismiss any campaign that is not in USD since I take it as a sign I will have to deal with customs, conversion rates a few weeks in the future, etc. I know that sounds arrogant and a bit spoiled, but I am already taking on significant risk backing a KS, and any additional risk and or work spent on my part instantly tips the cost of a campaign into "not worth it" territory.

Fair points being made. I will investigate the US dollar advantages and see what I can do. I was thinking of running in US dollars anyway.

It is selfish to say I prefer USD campaigns, and "welcome to the world the rest of us live in" comments are entirely justified. Regardless of what it says about American cultural solipsism, though, there is a pronounced trend of USD campaigns doing much better than those run in pounds.

Being a US citizen of lawful good alignment, I've backed two campaigns run in GBP so far. But to be honest, I spent nowhere near as much on them as I have on USD campaigns.

I suppose in the future all campaigns will be run in Yen.

I prefer USD.

Running in $ is probably the way to go if you can as you will get more backers,

but beware of the quite significant added risks of currency exchange and potential tax burdens

your US 'shell company' will owe tax on the cash so you won't be able to just pull it across to your UK company (where it may be taxed again by the UK gov) and spend it from there, you'll need to actually operate and spend it from the US company

so talk to competent lawyer/accountant with approriate experience

you'll also find that if you run in $ backers in the US will expect free postage (as that's what most US companies give) so either build it into the pledge costs or be prepared for a struggle in the comments

I have noticed some that some companies in the UK run in GBR but have USD and EUR totals on each pledge. Would this combined with free postage be an option?


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The new Flesh Golem has come back from the sculptor and I think it looks awesome. The Flesh Golem is parts of many creatures, bound together with flesh manipulating, necromantic magic and imbued with the soul of a daemon. The daemon happily goes about its business enslaved only to the commands of its master. Hence the need for chains when not required...

This miniature will be roughly 45mm to the eye line and will like be manufactured in high quality resin.








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I would really like to hear some opinions on this model.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Running in $ is probably the way to go if you can as you will get more backers,

but beware of the quite significant added risks of currency exchange and potential tax burdens

your US 'shell company' will owe tax on the cash so you won't be able to just pull it across to your UK company (where it may be taxed again by the UK gov) and spend it from there, you'll need to actually operate and spend it from the US company

so talk to competent lawyer/accountant with approriate experience

you'll also find that if you run in $ backers in the US will expect free postage (as that's what most US companies give) so either build it into the pledge costs or be prepared for a struggle in the comments

I could not agree more with Orlando's warnings, especially the part about the free shipping to the US backers, it seems to have become the norm for them now. There is a scenery KS running at the moment that I like the look at but they want $60 to post to the UK, but US postage is included (swallowed) in the price...why should I have to pay technically twice for postage. You are already being generous including two types of stands and I would like to really see your company take off, please don't run a loss due to your generosity and the demands of people, you can never please everyone (reading through this thread proves that).
I would advise speaking to Mantic, also Meirce as well who I believe had a steep learning curve as they were far to generous with their first Darklands KS.

New Golem sculpt looks awesome.

You mention Dwarves and possibly Humans coming later, will those be another KS or part of this one if it goes massive? Maybe even a straight-to-retail once you're up and running. That said, I'd leave Humans till you have the more unique factions done, with Historical models out there there are a ton of human models available.

Just a question on the game itself: Will it be something that has to run on dungeon-style tile setups, or is there potential for a more open setup, like a cavern/wood/town ect?

The game is designed to be played on an open playing surface with cavern like rock clumps, dark forests, Sunsiders farmsteads etc. there will be no humans or Demi humans in this KS. We will probably run another one with more factions later.

Love the flesh golem. I can't wait to see the dwarfs. Do you have any concept art of the dwarfs that you can share?

No not yet. Nothing has been done on the Sunsiders or the Dwarves at this stage. Dwarves are my personal favourite so I can assure you they will be a priority at some stage. The dwarves are going to be treasure hunters so will be designed to reflect that. The Dawrves are the racial enemies of the goblins so I imagine that Dwarves will be high on the priority list to get done.

I mentioned earlier about running a UK based KS with the possibility of having US dollars and Euros on each pleadge. If this was combined with free postage to the UK, US and EU, would that be enough to tempt our American friends or would it have to be a US KS to be a hit?

I can't speak for all of America but I really don't mind paying for shipping as long as its reasonable. What I don't like is paying the shipping rates post KS because my (and most others) credit card company charges me a fee to convert to GBP. This fee is separate from the conversion rate. This just annoys me since if I'm going to be spending money I'd rather have it go towards the KS and not the already rich CC company.

I disagree about US buyers all expecting 'free shipping'.

More and more campaigns are charging actual shipping now, either during or after the campaign.

If you spell this all out clearly up front, there shouldn't be any major issues.

I think one of the 'big' KS players, CMON, does it this way now.

Will some people complain?

Yes, of course!

This is Kickstarter after all!

On the USD vs GBP KS topic:

- Mantic only run their campaigns in USD because their Chinese tooling requires payment in USD.. so having the funds to directly transfer over there straight from their KS bank account in the US is a good thing.

You're using Renedra who will require payment in £, so don't forget that extra layer of exchange rate charges, fluctuation and other stuff that will probably result in the amount being lower than you expect.

The USD is currently on a slow but steady downward trend against the pound so any fluctuations are not going to be in your favour, you would have to make the campaign more expensive for everyone to take this into account since pledge levels can't be modified after the campaign starts.

It is entirely possible for USD to lose 10% of its value in one month relative to another currency such as GBP.

In addition, USD is, right now, worth less than it has been in 6 years, with room to drop further.

It might still be a good idea, but just be wary and know what you're getting into, especially with foreign shell companies and tax liabilities and such.

What's the general percentages on how much higher USD campaigns are vs. other currencies?

I know there's lots of variables to take into account, but knowing as much as possible about your projected costs (then maybe adding in an additional 10% to 20% fudge factor) will help a lot.

Especially as your number of backers and overall campaign total will be significantly higher if you use the dollar, but there's some built in additional risk too.

I'm still wondering about my earlier question. If I ran the KS in GBR with a dollar and euro price too with free postage to the US, would that be enough?

Maybe?

Your concept art is AMAZING.

IF your miniatures match it, you're going to have a VERY successful campaign on your hands.

Kaine Larson wrote:
I'm still wondering about my earlier question. If I ran the KS in GBR with a dollar and euro price too with free postage to the US, would that be enough?

That's the million dollar question that I don't think you can or will get a clear cut answer on. Look at the Infamy KS right now. They have excellent sculpts and very reasonable shipping outside the UK. Their KS model hasn't chased me away because the shipping isn't free or that it is in GBP. Although I'd be able to pledge more if it were in USD because I wouldn't have to wonder what I'm really paying post fee's and conversions.

I'd be very careful about the shipping costs. International shipping costs can increase significantly between when your kickstarter closes and you deliver product. If you want to offer free US shipping, your best bet is to find a US partner/distributer who can repost internally.

Personally I'm more inclined to back a project in USD just because it gives me a fixed cost without having to worry about currency fluctuations and transaction fees. That said, I've backed several GBP based projects in the past and will probably continue to do so in the future.

Shipping FROM the USA to EU/ROW seems to be the real killer.

Shipping is not an issue for me. I have had this sorted with a huge UK distributor for some time.

Kaine Larson wrote:
I'm still wondering about my earlier question. If I ran the KS in GBR with a dollar and euro price too with free postage to the US, would that be enough?

This seems to be the best solution. I recently saw it at the NEMESIS campaign and I think it was quite successful.

I have spoken to an accountant friend of mine this afternoon and although he can see the benefit of it he suggested the risks could be too high to run in USD. He advised me to run in GBP but to make the KS as US friendly as possible so I think this is what I will plan to do. I am looking into providing free postage to the US (which is a distinct possibility) and also providing full costs for each pledge in GBP, Euro and US dollars. I dont want to alientate our cousins across the pond by any means but I need to keep the risk to a minimum. Larger companies may find it easier to do but as a new company we cannot progress down this route currently.

Our Kickstarters of the future will probably be easier to implement in this format.

To be clear this Kickstarter will be focusing on Goblins and Zombies with the possibility of Lizards too.

The next one will be Orcs and Gnolls or Drow.

I have concept sketches drawn up for these guys and I am soooooo excited about them!! Lets not get too carried away I need to get this one done first!!!

Sounds fair. Just be sure to keep the exchange rates up to date as, if I recall, kickstarter don't take payment until the campaign is finished, and if you're running for a month then there could be a significant variation for larger pledges.

In GBP, what kind of pledge level would you be looking at for 2 factions+a rulebook? Also, with the rulebook, will the rules for the other factions be included so people can proxy/counts-as, or will there be another book with the next campaign?

The plan was to have Goblins as the basic boxed set follwoed by stretch goals leading up to the zombie boxed set. That was the plan whilst the hobgoblins and bugbears were making up the plastic boxed set. The plan is now to make these other troops in resin and metal with the goblins and zombies being made in plastic. I have some meetings over the next fortnight to try and make the KS focus on offering two simplified plastic boxed sets in the Kickstarter. This will probably mean that there will be one frame available in each boxed set with an additional command/bits frame. This will mean that we could offer a starter set as an earlybird with a rulebook containing both races. The Lizardkin would still be a further stretch goal in this instance and if they were not funded they would form part of the intial offering of the next KS.

The idea for the rulebook would be to release details for the first two or three factions plus some others. Eventually we would like to release faction books. We would also like to release books based on areas of the Underdeep, for example, the Labyrinth which could introduce wandering creatures that can be paid or coerced into fighting for individual factions. We also have plans for an allies matrix which will allow may different cretures to be included in every force, eg, a Goblin force could contain a troll or a Minotaur for example.

In regard to the exchange rate I will include a weekly section that I can update with the current exchange rate on it to give people an idea of what the final prices will be. I cannot do much more than this and I sincerely hope it doesnt put too many Americans off the idea of pledging.

Well this has kept my interest the entire time, so that is always good. In regards to the pricing, I think most Americans will be totally fine if you are upfront and update the prices for them every week. There is not much you can do about the downhill trend of the American economy and I think only the most stubborn american backers would complain (as long as your open about the prices and try to make the american shipping reasonable). Otherwise I think your idea is a good balance and well thought out. I would just like this KS to succeed and you to not risk too much.

Me too... I've already spent a lot of money!! But you have to speculate! It's not about the money for me. It's about a vision I have had for a long time but obviously everything has to stack up for this to be viable.

ClockworkChaos wrote:
Well this has kept my interest the entire time, so that is always good. In regards to the pricing, I think most Americans will be totally fine if you are upfront and update the prices for them every week. There is not much you can do about the downhill trend of the American economy and I think only the most stubborn american backers would complain (as long as your open about the prices and try to make the american shipping reasonable). Otherwise I think your idea is a good balance and well thought out. I would just like this KS to succeed and you to not risk too much.

...Dude. Have you *met* KS comments section dwellers? I hope your optimism turns out largely justified but there will be at least some drama, I'm afraid.

There will countless unhappy people. You can't do a thing in this world without someone being unhappy. I once gave a piece of my pizza to a homeless guy one night in wintery London. He told me he didn't like pepperoni. The moral of the story is that people will always have a gripe against something. My goal has always been to please as many people as I can. The majority matter to me and all I can do is my best. I am prepared for the verbal onslaught... It's like water off a ducks back to me!

 Bolognesus wrote:

ClockworkChaos wrote:
Well this has kept my interest the entire time, so that is always good. In regards to the pricing, I think most Americans will be totally fine if you are upfront and update the prices for them every week. There is not much you can do about the downhill trend of the American economy and I think only the most stubborn american backers would complain (as long as your open about the prices and try to make the american shipping reasonable). Otherwise I think your idea is a good balance and well thought out. I would just like this KS to succeed and you to not risk too much.

...Dude. Have you *met* KS comments section dwellers? I hope your optimism turns out largely justified but there will be at least some drama, I'm afraid.

I have with mixed reactions. When I backed battlesystems KS it was the most positive energetic wonderful comment section I ever took part in. People were cheering people on, giving life advice and encouraging whatever occurred. On the other hand I am also currently backing Zombicide 3 and even though coolminiornot are doing a fine job I have never seen a more Toxic comment section (except Areal the video game KS but that just got suspended today). People complain about FREE things! It blows my mind the greed people have. But so far Kaine has been open, honest and willing to communicate. There will always be bad seeds but if enough positive people join it can wash it out as well as good support from the creators of the project. So I remain hopeful for this KS comment section.

Just be sure to post a link to a conversion site for the currency rate exchange and you should be fine.

I will do my best to provide...

In the meantime I thought I would show you the Headcleaver sculpt alongside the Headcleaver artwork...

Ooh, nice characterful mini! I can't help but feel though, that the nose for example has lost quite a bit of definition compared to the concept. Is this just lighting or is it really much flatter/smoother?

I love that there will be a skirmish game to go along with these miniatures!

The Kickstarter will focus on two factions to start?

Undead vs. Gobliins?

A strange way to start, no traditional 'good' forces, but the quality of the sculpts and casts and plastic will help out, a lot!

The idea was for the game to focus on the races of the Underdeep and their struggles for survival. We will be releasing Sunsiders as well. There is a bit more information further up on this page in regard to this.

Ooh, nice characterful mini! I can't help but feel though, that the nose for example has lost quite a bit of definition compared to the concept. Is this just lighting or is it really much flatter/smoother?

There is always going to be a bit of a loss of detail as the goblins are really small.

We are trying to get as much detail onto every model as possible with the heads being a primary focal point.

I get that! As you say though, heads are a primary focal point; that's why the nose stood out to me (it's making a daring escape on this race apparently, but it's not quite away from the head yet ), all the more since it's such an unusually looking, defining characteristic.

Don't get me wrong though, I still like the look.

Kinda think I prefer the more sleeker nose

I'm sure you've be asked somewhere before but I don't suppose theres any chance of seeing a scale shot of the goblin? Next to ruler would be cool or any well known figure would be better.

No sculpt, ever, will look exactly like the concept art. Most of the time the sculpt does nto even come close.

I'm sure you've be asked somewhere before but I don't suppose there's any chance of seeing a scale shot of the goblin? Next to ruler would be cool or any well known figure would be better.

Here you go...next to a space marine (Its all I had to hand). I hope this isn't breaking any trademark/copyright/GW!! I apologise for the slightly mutated look of the goblin. He is held together with blue tac at the moment.



I have clumped some of the goblin art and I think the nose has been fairly consistent.









We have one sculptor working on the Goblins as I want to get the look to be uniform throughout. As I have said before I am happy to hear any critiques and really do appreciate all your constructive comments.

I for one am happy there won't be any "good" forces available. They're overrated.

I'll gladly take inhuman brutes and misshapen aberrations over fat beardies and cloaked pointy ears.

I'll gladly take inhuman brutes and misshapen aberrations over fat beardies and cloaked pointy ears.

Although some to squish at leisurely intervals would be good?

 tre manor wrote:
No sculpt, ever, will look exactly like the concept art. Most of the time the sculpt does nto even come close.

Well of course you're the expert here, but I have some Mierce stuff lying around that says otherwise. Just sayin' - and I know that's a really high bar to hold folks to.

@TS: Oh that definitely fits! looking a lot more consistent to me now, for sure. Thing is, the concept art you posted besides the first pic of that model seemed to show a few ridges which, to me, indicated the nose was raised quite a bit. Line art like that tends to mess with my head though, so let me apologize right here and now

And before I forget: it damn sure is a very characterful model and I will be in for at least that model on day one. Not trying to sabotage anything here

Your opinion is appreciated. Do you have anything that you would like to see in this range? I have a book with about 800 requests so far... more fuel for the fire would be awesome!

Haha, I'll get back to you on that

Humans!

Seriously though, I'd love to see your take on Human and Demi-Human Explorers!

I'm most excited for the lizardfolk.

As far as requests go, I wouldn't mind seeing a variety of lizard body types - or heck, lizard types in general - among the various castes / races / etc. Some lumbering hulks, some lithe and quick as a whip.

Always liked the scholarly serpent men types, too. Smart lizardmen are more interesting to me than "duh, eat mammal" types.

A visual style that owes nothing to Native peoples of the Americas wouldn't hurt, either.

Everything Vermonter said. No more lizards of the Americas, please!

Lizards in armor. Lizards with clothing. Cultured lizards.

Cultured and civilized arachnids. Because spiders are awesome and repulsive at the same time. Or just some funky bugs in general.

Thanks, now I've got a vision of a man sized spider in a dinner jacket and fez smoking a pipe.

 Duskland wrote:
Thanks, now I've got a vision of a man sized spider in a dinner jacket and fez smoking a pipe.

How could you *NOT* want a figure of that? The Gentleman Spider? He could guest star in just about every tabletop game ever.

Xeno Ambassador, Famous mutant freedom fighter, UnderDark Robber Baron, Victorian Magician/ Scientist in an experiment gone astray...

The world is his oyster!

 Bolognesus wrote:

 tre manor wrote:
No sculpt, ever, will look exactly like the concept art. Most of the time the sculpt does nto even come close.

Well of course you're the expert here, but I have some Mierce stuff lying around that says otherwise. Just sayin' - and I know that's a really high bar to hold folks to.

There are some companies that are not faithful to their concept artwork and some that are. GW, Mierce, Fireforge, Scibor, Hell Dorado, Shieldwolf, Raging Heroes, Dark Hammer, Dark Age are some that immediately come to mind. And I'm sure there are a lot more to name without a doubt.

Same thing about artwork matching the final minis cannot be said for Mantic, AoW etc (where you usually see some good artwork and when you get the mini in your hand it looks nothing lke it!) and I'm sure there are some others too but I'm only naming a couple of the most known ones.

For the stuff shown above, I'm sure it will not suffice to simply show off some artwork, especially since Minion is completely new and there's nothing prior with which to judge from. I'm expecting to see a lot more artwork like the one I'm seeing and at least 6-8 sculpted minis that follow the artwork shown for the metal casts. That should be more than enough to prove at what level the minis match the relevant concept.
And as for the plastics I'm sure showing off the greens laid out on the "will-be-sprues" will clearly show what the final product will look like. That would be 10 goblins for each sprue as Kaine said, along with their weaponry and stuff. I'm convinced it will be sufficient for the (reasonable) backers to be convinced, it would definitely work for me at least...

Please don't get me wrong here... My comment about concept art and sculpts was not meant to mean it will look somewhat like the concept art. My brief to all my sculptors is to follow the concept art as much as possible but sculpting and drawings are are two different mediums and not everything translates. I would like to think that 95% would be a good target goal. All of the companies listed produce exceptional models that are true to the concept art as we will be but even GW make small changes in pose, equipment, thickness if hair or fur as artists do not always understand what makes a good model unless they are a sculptor themselves. I think the Headcleaver when viewed in contrast is true to thee artwork. I will show the zombie and flesh golem side by side later too for a comparison.

In regard to having a full sprue set out for everyone to see before the KS, that won't happen as the money from the KS will be needed to complete this extremely expensive part of the project. What I will have are some three ups, exploded diagrams of some of the parts, painted examples in 30mm plus a selection of metal and resin models. I hope this will be enough. I will also have a possible render of a sprue to show the approximate sprue layout.

OK I am not saying that sculpts cannot be " true to the concept" I am saying that there are always a lot of differences between concept and sculpt. Even with Mierce's stuff ( which in my opinion they usually do come the closest ) there are still a lot of differences between concept and sculpt.

When I say differences I am nto saying that there are pieces missing or placed differently on the sculpt than in the concept. I am saying that you have two different artists rendering the same subject that makes for differences in and of itself. Further actual miniatures have to obey a different set of rules than drawn concepts do.

No offense meant at your artists or your effort Kaine, I am just jabbering as my usual. I am sure what you will have produced will be great and I wish you the best of luck with it......just mind your margins man. Trust me they reduce a lot faster than you might think going in.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:

 Duskland wrote:
Thanks, now I've got a vision of a man sized spider in a dinner jacket and fez smoking a pipe.

How could you *NOT* want a figure of that? The Gentleman Spider? He could guest star in just about every tabletop game ever.

Xeno Ambassador, Famous mutant freedom fighter, UnderDark Robber Baron, Victorian Magician/ Scientist in an experiment gone astray...

The world is his oyster!

You appear to be an alternate me when it comes to things monstrous, so perhaps it's no surprise that I fully agree on the potential of spider and / or insect-based races. Huge potential there, and it's often struck me as strange how often it goes completely untapped.

Believe it or not we do have plans for Etter - things you put on your head (avoiding legal issues here) which wil be spider chaps of sorts. Probably not dinner jackets though!!

While the bugs may not interest me much, I too would be interested in seeing some lizards that aren't depicted as tribal savages. Let's see some technologically advanced lizards that actually have some metal working skills.

Also Gnolls. I'd love to see what the concept art for the Gnolls will look like.

 Vermonter wrote:

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:

 Duskland wrote:
Thanks, now I've got a vision of a man sized spider in a dinner jacket and fez smoking a pipe.

How could you *NOT* want a figure of that? The Gentleman Spider? He could guest star in just about every tabletop game ever.

Xeno Ambassador, Famous mutant freedom fighter, UnderDark Robber Baron, Victorian Magician/ Scientist in an experiment gone astray...

The world is his oyster!

You appear to be an alternate me when it comes to things monstrous, so perhaps it's no surprise that I fully agree on the potential of spider and / or insect-based races. Huge potential there, and it's often struck me as strange how often it goes completely untapped.

Well I am another person for that vote. Very few games do "monstrous fantasy" and I suppose that is one of the reasons why I don't play fantasy. My "mental image" of fantasy does not have a focus on elves, dwarfs ect (which I find plain boring), but if they are fighting it is against monstrosities. The undead and goblins have more of that feel to them and the lizards are just a great touch overall. But more monster-factions is always a plus in my books.

We have lots in the pipeline, Orcs, Gnolls, Drow, Minotaurs, Ogres, Serpent people, Fish people, Infenral Demons... the list goes on. As we are going for a fantasy RPG type vibe for the races I'm afraid to say that the lizardkin will have a distinctly swamp dweller feel to them. The reason behind this is that we wanted to differentiate between the cultured serpent people and the more savage lizard kin. We are not going down the GW route of Aztec style lizards but more of a Native American style to them. We have also gone for a more dinosaur like look with them. I know this wont be to everyones tastes and we might even do a comparable Dragonkin/Dragonman style of Good aligned creature that would be heavily bedecked in armour or in mage like robes.

I really like the lizard concept, looks very feral and savage and something no one would want to meet on a dark night in the swamp.

I also think the idea of a more cultured snake/dragon type faction that look down on their 'lesser' cousins would be great. This setting is shaping up to be very unique and very deep!

Woops! Look what I found. Someone's getting slow on their Dakka updates...

Sorry Kaine. Couldn't resist myself.



and a breakdown of how the figure is assembled...

I don't pledge to Kickstarters much...but if I remember this one I will for sure when it launches. Really digging the sculpts.

Hmm. I suppose I can live with Native American influenced lizards. At least it isn't the usual Aztec/Inca/Maya look that most companies go for.

I have no problems with plate armored Dragon-kin and snake men. I can live with that tradeoff.

Have you thought about having any wolfmen (or other canid based humanoids like Jackal-men), or will the Gnolls and Minotaurs be our only mammalian humanoids?

I can dig the dino/lizard. Actually making the good aligned lizard more armored ect would work, so everyone can get the lizard they want!

Kaine Larson wrote:

I would really like to hear some opinions on this model.

The concept is well executed in that it looks like something out of Kingdom Death or a Clive Barker horror film, which makes it more effective than 90% of undead minis. The pose is good, but looks stiff due to the stillness of the cloth and the muscles (or something). The textures are varied, deep and interesting, but they might distract attention away from the face and hands/claws. The left arm with the double forearm is by far my favorite part of the model, but it might not be as noticeable on such a busy model in 30mmish scale. I suspect the ring armor, toes and face cloth might mush out in the printing or casting phase.
Overall, it's a good concept. However, I must admit I'm so sick of undead that I will never buy one. Best of luck, though.


Also, the USD rules on kickstarter, but if the exchange rate happens to make your prices look wicked-huge you might want the stability of GBP. If Americans can't afford to pledge anyway, you might as well stick to GBP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Update: I also won't be buying any Lizardmen now, apparently.

But the goblins. They will be mine.

Given my influences, this is what Lizardmen look like to me:

1E AD&D Monster Manual


1E AD&D Fiend Folio


Yeah!

I love the old school look. It's something we didn't want to drift too far from but at the same time we wanted to inject some originality hence our dinosaur like visages and feet. I love lizardmen and I hope we can do them justice!

Kaine Larson wrote:
I have spoken to an accountant friend of mine this afternoon and although he can see the benefit of it he suggested the risks could be too high to run in USD. He advised me to run in GBP but to make the KS as US friendly as possible so I think this is what I will plan to do. I am looking into providing free postage to the US (which is a distinct possibility) and also providing full costs for each pledge in GBP, Euro and US dollars.

Any ideas on ROW shipping? Hopefully not left as an afterthought as some recent campaigns have.

ROW shipping is expensive but I have some exceptional rates. I will have to charge to other areas of the world I'm afraid.

One suggestion, if you're offering 'free' shipping to anywhere by building the cost into the pledge levels be open about it, and offer a similar 'discount' on the shipping costs elsewhere

eg

The cost of shipping a UK pledge is £5 so we have built a discount of £5 into all the international shipping costs quoted so nobody is treated unfairly

it will mean international pledgers don't feel they are unfairly subsidising shipping your home backers

Definitely a good idea. We have managed to negotiate rates where costs to the US are similar to the Euro zone but costs to the far east and australasia are phenomonally high in comparison. However, the prices will be very competitive. We are also thinking of having free postage over a certain pledge value. It is a constant struggle to remain commercial but at the same time making the KS as attreactive as possible.

If you ever release an insectoid-arachnoid race in plastic, I might go bankrupt. especially if their concept is as good as the ones you've shown so far.

We definitely have plans for them in white metal or resin but plastic maybe a stretch. But we will see. We could of course centre a faction around spiders. May be giant spiders, spiderkin and drider types. We will have to see!!!

Deep in ancient arcane ruins or within isolated towers of captured keeps, Hobgoblin Hex Masters hone their knowledge and magical skills in the art of war, destruction and chaos. Although they wont admit it their arcane power is drawn from the same raw, savage and tribal realms of their lesser goblin cousins. They like to be known as warlocks and Archmages but the truth is their magic is based upon the power of curses and hexes and their belief in dark ancient Gods.

Unlike most magic users Hex Shamans do not shy away from combat and like all other Hobgoblins they have to face martial trials on a regular basis. They are often found leading the line, hacking and slashing their way through their enemies whilst they mutter vile curses to hex their victims.

Definitely an interesting concept. How big a base are you putting him on? It looks like you'd need a 40mm base with that pose.

He will be on a 25mm round base with base stone overlapping on one side.

I have to say, while undoubtedly good looking, so to speak, I popped into this thread when it started, saw a bunch of gobbos and thought "meh, not for me"

The thread kept popping back to the top, and so I took another look, and all I can say is wow, you definitely have my interest!

I await the launch of the KS eagerly!

Well THANKS VERY MUCH....is all I can say really!!!

You're welcome! I'm always on the lookout for different models for units in my 40K Daemons army, for which goblins have limited application, but some of what you've shown and talked about latterly has real potential for me.

Wonderfully productive meeting today with the friendly folks at Renedra. I can now confirm the Kickstarter basic funding target will include both the Goblin boxed set and the zombie boxed set. The first stretchgoal will see the addition of a command sprue for both factions. Beyond this will be a host of both free and purchased addon stretch goals. The final figures for the KS are not 100% finalised yet but will be manageable. We went with Renedra because their quality is unsurpassed and I wanted the figures to be of the highest quality possible. This does not come cheap but I am sure you would agree that quality had to be the ultimate goal. To clarify we are concentrating solely on the basic figures of the range in plastic now. The hobgoblins, bugbears, flesh golem and zombie hulk will be metal and resin stretchgoals. For those Lizardkin fans amongst you (and i know there are a few of you) the Lizardkin boxed set will be a later stretchgoal. Due to the enormous demand and hugely detailed work that Renedra do there wi be a 12 month wait before delivery of these models although we will aim to shorten this if possible. I hope this gives you a bit more information about where the KS is heading. Any questions?

Have you settled on a buy-in level for a full starter yet?

We are going to make the rule book downloadable when the KS launches. There will be a stretchgoal for a full hardback version of the rules. The starter boxed set will contain dice, templates and other gubbins. This set wil include 36 plastic goblins and 36 zombies along with the KS exclusive mini. This will be around the £50-£60 mark.

Kaine Larson wrote:
We are going to make the rule book downloadable when the KS launches. There will be a stretchgoal for a full hardback version of the rules. The starter boxed set will contain dice, templates and other gubbins. This set wil include 36 plastic goblins and 36 zombies along with the KS exclusive mini. This will be around the £50 mark.

I suspect you'll do quite well then!

Kaine Larson wrote:
We are going to make the rule book downloadable when the KS launches. There will be a stretchgoal for a full hardback version of the rules. The starter boxed set will contain dice, templates and other gubbins. This set wil include 36 plastic goblins and 36 zombies along with the KS exclusive mini. This will be around the £50 mark.

I'm not complaining. ..but that does seem very cheap.

Is that with shipping included??

If that is with shipping included, please give me your manufacturer and I'll hook him up with some job from me, too!

What will the funding goal be?

36 goblins? How's that possible, you have said that each sprue will contain 10 goblins. How does that make 36?

grefven wrote:
If that is with shipping included, please give me your manufacturer and I'll hook him up with some job from me, too!

Isn't it Renedra?

Both myself and Barzam were wondering if you plan on having any post- campaign funding options available as well. Depending on when this starts makes quite a difference for myself (as a teacher not teaching during the summer), and if I can't pledge a lot up front I'd like to be able to further down the line if need be.

Plus I want lizards!

Kaine, I need you to cave in and replace the goblin heads with more traditional ones. That way I can stop dreaming of modding them up as aliens and stop looking at this thread, which I'm finding much more compelling than I should.

I think you're going to do very well, even with a long wait time, because people have been waiting for affordable, Renedra-quality minis like the ones you're going to produce for much longer than a year. I'll even go out on a limb and say that I think Lizardkin will likely go from a "possibly maybe" to a certainty. And right now, I'd say that's a good thing. I like your concept for them. But I want to address one thing about the direction you're taking them.

My personal preference is for more advanced reptilian races (so I look forward to your serpentmen), but I don't have a problem with stone age lizardmen per se. However, I have worked with Native American people, have Native friends, and have seen firsthand the negative impact that popular stereotypes - particularly the Plains warrior trope - can have upon Native communities. It's not exactly a leading trope in the industry, but beastmen wearing Native American-styled clothes pop up every now and then, conflating Native cultures with Nature, primitivism, and bestial savagery. Mantic's Yndij, most likely riffing on the Na'vi of Avatar, is a recent example. When the parallels are that direct (Ateo Adysi's hair-pipe breastplate, the name "Yndij" seemingly derived from "Indigenous"), I'm uncomfortable with them.

I say "uncomfortable" rather than "outraged" because I think the issue is more complicated than an outsider (to the hobby) academic would find it. These days, even when stereotypical imagery filters into fantasy, it produces a complex mixture rather than a simple, one-note stereotype. For example, what is the Predator? A tribute to the short story, "the most dangerous game"? An armored Japanese samurai? A Native "Noble Savage"? A Roman gladiator? A Rastafarian (Dreadlocks?) An opportunistic riff on Giger's Alien (the jaw), with it's own sexual fetish thing going on (fishnet stockings? Really?)? I think an honest critic would find it extremely difficult to pin the Predator down as based on a clear negative (or positive) stereotype of any human culture, even though it draws from some. And I will admit up front to not having studied this issue (and therefore potentially inviting a better informed academic to hand my ass to me), but if Mickey Mouse has his roots in Sambo caricature, I don't think he's functioned as one in the popular imagination for a long, long time. It is important to know the historical roots of these things and acknowledge them, and forgetting those roots can be problematic at best. But those characters can be transformed over time to the point that their original, objectionable references are no longer recognizable, or, arguably, even present anymore.

Looking at your lizardman concept, the only cultural reference I can detect is the toothed weaponry, which is more Oceanic than Native American. As for your lizardman's clothing and other accoutrements, there's really nothing particularly Native American about them; they're more evocative of popular caveman imagery. In fact, if you hadn't described your lizardman as Native American based, I wouldn't have taken it that way at all, and to me, that's great. I don't have a problem with your concept art. My only point of concern at this point is your textual ascription of that prehistoric, bestial concept art to Native American peoples, who, as far as I can see, are in no way referenced by it.

I hope to see more lizardman concepts like your first, which proceeds down the "old school" path from gaming's own art history* rather than directly deriving from any Native American stereotype. Keep up the good work - I think you're on to a smashing success with this project.

*Thank you to Alpharius for that visual trip down memory lane!

Yes it is Renedra. Each half sprue will be 6 figures. In the Goblin box there will be two sets of weapons and both options will be available. I have been messing with figures all day and we will definitely be looking at between £50 and £60 for the starter set. That will currently be $85-$102 or €63-76.

At the moment I am looking at free UK postage and all pledges of £120 or $200 being free to the US and Eurozone only.

If I were to take the full hit on US and Euro postage prices would have to rise significantly I'm afraid but I am hoping this will be a good compromise. I might be able to change this but I am waiting for the accountant to get back to me.

Kaine, I need you to cave in and replace the goblin heads with more traditional ones. That way I can stop dreaming of modding them up as aliens and stop looking at this thread, which I'm finding much more compelling than I should.

I think you're going to do very well, even with a long wait time, because people have been waiting for affordable, Renedra-quality minis like the ones you're going to produce for much longer than a year. I'll even go out on a limb and say that I think Lizardkin will likely go from a "possibly maybe" to a certainty. And right now, I'd say that's a good thing. I like your concept for them. But I want to address one thing about the direction you're taking them.

My personal preference is for more advanced reptilian races (so I look forward to your serpentmen), but I don't have a problem with stone age lizardmen per se. However, I have worked with Native American people, have Native friends, and have seen firsthand the negative impact that popular stereotypes - particularly the Plains warrior trope - can have upon Native communities. It's not exactly a leading trope in the industry, but beastmen wearing Native American-styled clothes pop up every now and then, conflating Native cultures with Nature, primitivism, and bestial savagery. Mantic's Yndij, most likely riffing on the Na'vi of Avatar, is a recent example. When the parallels are that direct (Ateo Adysi's hair-pipe breastplate, the name "Yndij" seemingly derived from "Indigenous"), I'm uncomfortable with them.

I say "uncomfortable" rather than "outraged" because I think the issue is more complicated than an outsider (to the hobby) academic would find it. These days, even when stereotypical imagery filters into fantasy, it produces a complex mixture rather than a simple, one-note stereotype. For example, what is the Predator? A tribute to the short story, "the most dangerous game"? An armored Japanese samurai? A Native "Noble Savage"? A Roman gladiator? A Rastafarian (Dreadlocks?) An opportunistic riff on Giger's Alien (the jaw), with it's own sexual fetish thing going on (fishnet stockings? Really?)? I think an honest critic would find it extremely difficult to pin the Predator down as based on a clear negative (or positive) stereotype of any human culture, even though it draws from some. And I will admit up front to not having studied this issue (and therefore potentially inviting a better informed academic to hand my ass to me), but if Mickey Mouse has his roots in Sambo caricature, I don't think he's functioned as one in the popular imagination for a long, long time. It is important to know the historical roots of these things and acknowledge them, and forgetting those roots can be problematic at best. But those characters can be transformed over time to the point that their original, objectionable references are no longer recognizable, or, arguably, even present anymore.

Looking at your lizardman concept, the only cultural reference I can detect is the toothed weaponry, which is more Oceanic than Native American. As for your lizardman's clothing and other accoutrements, there's really nothing particularly Native American about them; they're more evocative of popular caveman imagery. In fact, if you hadn't described your lizardman as Native American based, I wouldn't have taken it that way at all, and to me, that's great. I don't have a problem with your concept art. My only point of concern at this point is your textual ascription of that prehistoric, bestial concept art to Native American peoples, who, as far as I can see, are in no way referenced by it.

I hope to see more lizardman concepts like your first, which proceeds down the "old school" path from gaming's own art history* rather than directly deriving from any Native American stereotype. Keep up the good work - I think you're on to a smashing success with this project.

I totally agree with what you have said. I am a serious historian and have a degree in archaeology with a certain amount of anthropology for good measure. My specialty is the Revolutionary War and my interest in North American history and the history of Native peoples is right up there. I meant no disrespect in regard to "the noble Savage" connotation and such I wanted to keep the lizardkin in a vein all of their own. When we designed the lizardkin, I did not say to my artist "I want a native American theme please", I wanted to show a strong powerful warrior from a tribal, war like society reminsicent of many such cultures around the world, Mayan, Maori, Celtic, Nordic etc. Unfortunately, when I type on my I phone my brain doesn't always work as fast as my fingers do and I do sometimes truncate setences I amy well have not truncated if I was on my desk top. No offence meant. I also hate it when people use cultures as templates for fantasy. Peter Jackson Easterlings are wonderful as they show cultural influence from many cultures such as Japanese, Persian, Indian, Egyptian. I am as uncomfortable as you are when it comes to bracketing a culture to my models. Please accept this an apology!

If he replaces the heads of the goblins like the GW ones, he'll lose all the originality (which is what has made me like this, and I'm sure a lot of other people too). He'd also lose al credibility when his artwork has nothing to do with the final product.

Very disappointed about the 10 figures becoming 6 figures per sprue, goblins are very small and it's not like you can have different torsos and legs, so unless I'm wrong and torsos+legs are separate modular pieces that is downgrading the featured sprue quite a bit from what you had said initially.

On the other hand free shipping for USA and E.U. sounds very nice, glad you are considering this especially for people who would like a lot of goblins (and zombies maybe).

I think the request for a head change was a joke, it sounds to me like Vermonter is currently temped by these lovely goblins but doesn't need another project on his hands. Much like myself infact.

This may just be my own thinking warping his intent but I totally understand the problem of "ooh, shiny! Those would make great _____s. But I realy shouldn't start another project."

First of all the head swap thing was a joke!

Secondly, we were going to make it 12 Goblibs a sprue. In fact we are still doing this but we are manufacturing on a half sprue with additional tooled frames coming in sections. So the Goblin half frame will be 6 seperate goblin bodies and legs with a selection if swords and spears. The second half sprue will be 6 goblin bodies with legs and a different bunch of weapons, namely bows. When they are manufactured they will be a whole sprue if 12 figs with bows and swords/spears. So don't worry, there will be 12 figs per sprue but with 6 different body types, 12 different heads (24 in total) and full weapon options. The figures have specifically designed so that each body can make either an archer, swordsman or spearman and still look anatomically correct, much like the Perry's WOTR frame which is an excellent frame.

Kaine and Chaoticmind are correct, the head swap request was indeed a joke. Actually, the unconventional goblin heads are what first sparked my interest in this project.

No apology was necessary, Kaine, but I really appreciated your well-considered response, and I'm glad someone with your thoughtfulness is at the head of this project. Sounds like you and I have similar educational backgrounds and interests, too, as I completed a doctorate in Native American art history last year.

Needless to say, you've quashed my few remaining reservations. I intend to be there when your KS launches, and will follow its development with great interest.

Thanks... The KS is going to start in the first week or second week of September depending on the last minute stuff getting done.

I'm going to be hitting the other forums this week for the first time!

Does anyone have any good ideas about where else I should introduce the KS?

I would suggest Warseer but if it's not GW, there not interested. Maybe BOLS? I've never used it. Is it a forum or a Blog?

Plus Beasts of War and Table Top Gaming News...

I'm compiling as big a list as possible... I am so busy my brains are slowly dribbling our of my ears. I never thought KS's would be this hard

I think beasts of war have already preview some of your art, I'd highly recomend speaking to them, if you get the chance an interview for their blog could go a long way towards getting some backers.

Reaper has a KS specific section of their forums which is pretty active

http://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/forum/61-kickstarter/

(you can post your KS and it's progress, just not subsequent pledge manager or retail sales stuff)

Also The Miniatures Page (it a right pain to navigate but probably has enough readers to make the effort worth while)

http://theminiaturespage.com/

Frothers UK where they may well be horrible and rude, (but it's all in good fun generally, and they do have a lot of skilled sculptors/casters etc posting so it's worth thinking about their cirtisisms)

there's a general crowdfunding thread http://www.frothersunite.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=40380 if you prefer to post once and abandon it, or you can put up a dedicated post here http://www.frothersunite.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=5 if you're prepared to put in a bit of effort in maintaining it

Kaine Larson wrote:
Thanks... The KS is going to start in the first week or second week of September depending on the last minute stuff getting done.

I'm going to be hitting the other forums this week for the first time!

Does anyone have any good ideas about where else I should introduce the KS?

wamp

 Malkaven wrote:

Kaine Larson wrote:
Thanks... The KS is going to start in the first week or second week of September depending on the last minute stuff getting done.

I'm going to be hitting the other forums this week for the first time!

Does anyone have any good ideas about where else I should introduce the KS?

wamp

What is that?

 Alpharius wrote:

 Malkaven wrote:

Kaine Larson wrote:
Thanks... The KS is going to start in the first week or second week of September depending on the last minute stuff getting done.

I'm going to be hitting the other forums this week for the first time!

Does anyone have any good ideas about where else I should introduce the KS?

wamp

What is that?

painting focused forum/community.

Thanks a lot guys. Really appreciated...

The goblin sculpt from a few pages back has me paying attention here again. Were there any other sculpts shown in this thread that I missed? I did see a digital sculpt last page, are you doing a mix of traditional and digital sculpting, or is the goblin a 3d print, etc?

I guess the thing I'd be most concerned with is whether or not you are experienced enough to take into account the stringent requirements for a model to be injection moldable. Can you comment on that?

All the sculptors are very much aware of this issue. The 3d prints will be going to Renedra where me, the manufacturer and sculpter will be going over each piece to make sure there are no undercuts. The prints done thus far have already gone to Renedra and they are more than happy with the results thus far with only one or two issues to be ironed out.

The sculpt of the Goblin is a traditional sculpt. We have a nice mix of both going on here. Originally we were going for traditional sculpts but some the digital sculpts and sculptors changed this. The Goblin sprue will be 3d rendered but much of the metals will be sculpted traditionally. One thing we have opted for is that we are minimising the amount of sculptors working on each faction to make sure that there is consistency.

Just to show you the sculpts so far:






The Goblin Skulk is being scuplted at the moment along with some additional sprue stuff for the Zombies. One of the renders of the Goblin plastics will also be done soon.

I didn't realize you'd already gone over some prints with Renedra and have them involved. That is excellent! I'll totally be in for some goblins if things continue in this manner.

I'm glad to hear it. I like to think we have done this project in the right way. I'm new to this but I have spent a year making sure everything is right in regard to costings, manufacturing information, design etc. I just hope I can get everything else done in this final few weeks. Eeeeek!!!

 RiTides wrote:
I didn't realize you'd already gone over some prints with Renedra and have them involved. That is excellent! I'll totally be in for some goblins if things continue in this manner.

'Tides, you do realise there's golems involved here don't you....?

And if there's one thing we know for sure, it is that Rhode Islanders love them some Golems!

Just another quick question on pricing. Some of the models will be free when it comes to the SG's but some will be addons that can be purchased from the addon store. For example, the Zombie Hulk, at 65mm high and made of high quality resin, what price would you say would be a good price for a KS? I have already put a price on this dude but I would like to hear the communities view. Please bear in mind that this will be a KS rate so slightly discounted from retail.

Just in case you have forgotten what he looks like!!

Id be Hoping there'd be a buy 1 for 3 option on the hulks

HAHA...I've got to make some money somewhere!

I don't know if this is a reasonable comparison for you, Kaine, as you run a smaller operation, but I can tell you that Mantic priced it's Goblin Stuntbots, large Mech units cast in resin, at $20 during the campaign. Suggested retail price on them now is $34.99, and they run about $28 through online discounters.

I don't know how tall the Stuntbots are as they're yet to be released, but they come with 60mm bases.

On the higher end, Studio McVey's resin-cast Phaedrus Chirurge comes on a 50mm base, is 47mm high, and is priced (without any discount) on their store at 20 pounds. That model hasn't been featured in a kickstarter campaign (yet), so I couldn't say what McVey's discount for it would be.

Maybe a better point of comparison would be Mierce miniatures, if anyone here has experience with their KS campaigns? I know those run higher with "boutique" type pricing.

I was realistically thinking that the £20 mark would be ok. Theres lots and lots of freebies with each SG hit so I think £20 would be reasonable. It will end up being about the size of a dreadnaught from 40k I think. The Flesh Golems and Bugbear Brute will be around the £15 mark. They are more like GW minotaurs in size. I think people are going to be surprised by the size of the Zombie Hulk!

Actually I got the price wrong. The Hulk and Bugbear Ironshield will be £18 with the Bugbear Brute and Flesh Golem being £15.

Those prices sound more than fair, especially for solid blocks of resin. With such good prices, I can see this going big if you get the coverage (which it seems like you are, with the interaction on here. Are you doing the same on other forums?)

Kaine Larson wrote:
I was realistically thinking that the £20 mark would be ok. Theres lots and lots of freebies with each SG hit so I think £20 would be reasonable. It will end up being about the size of a dreadnaught from 40k I think. The Flesh Golems and Bugbear Brute will be around the £15 mark. They are more like GW minotaurs in size. I think people are going to be surprised by the size of the Zombie Hulk!

Actually I got the price wrong. The Hulk and Bugbear Ironshield will be £18 with the Bugbear Brute and Flesh Golem being £15.

Your prices sound very reasonable, if Mierce is a good comparison. I just looked at one of their campaigns. Here are their prices for Thorrir, Troll Konungr (60mm base, 60mm tall):

Discounted gold level: 28 pounds
Discounted bronze level: 32 pounds
RRP: 35 pounds

Not yet. Dakka was always going to be my testing ground s I am familiar with it. I've never really been a forum bunny before doing this and I have to say I was ready for serious backlash. I have been somewhat surprised at how accommodating and helpful everyone has been! I will be hitting the other forums next week. We will be having a huge amount of coverage from a certain distributor, Facebook advertising and we hope to have the You Tube video up and running in the next fortnight. Other than that if you have any other ideas about areas I can hit I am all ears... particularly the other side of the pond!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The one thing I don't want to do is appear expensive. The prices at retail will go up for sure but at the KS level I am trying to make it as competitive as possible. The prices I have given are just ideas at the moment. I am working with my accountant to make sure the figures work as they should so they may deviate by a couple of quid but that's all. I think the Zombie Hulk and the Ironshield should be more than a match size wise for that charming looking fellow.

That is a nice looking bit of concept art though isn't it... I might have to get me one of them!

A few things you've probably considered, but just in case:

Forums, Facebook, Twitter. Be prepared to act on feedback, but also to stick to what you have in mind (looks like you've got the hang of this balance already)

Get gameplay videos up if you can, even if it is on cardboard terrain with proxy minis, people will want to see how the game plays.

Produce simple forum signature banners that link to the KS, so people on here can advertise for you!

Contact anyone who might be able to give you publicity! I know Mantic sometimes spread the word about other Kickstarters on their blog. I think Beasts of War also like showing off new stuff.

Hope that helps.

those prices sound fair to me assuming the models are good quality. Infamy is charging 17gbp (14 if you above their 150gbp pledge) for an x-large model. I'm not entirely sure on how large that is but I'm guessing that its fairly comparable in size since there standard is 32mm. Their quality is top notch in my book.

Certainly does...thanks for the assistance.

You certainly have my attention with your concepts and sculpts. I am very happy with the prices, the only reason i didn't back any of the Miecie Miniatures KS was the extortionate prices!

I do love golems although a "flesh golem" doesn't fit my usual categories (troll/earth/stone). I really like the goblin faces, though, so even without a fitting golem I will likely be in for something

Take your time, as you have been, and get everything you can taken care of upfront! Talking to Renedra is what has me following this now- so many miniatures startups show art, sculpts... and then try to figure out how the heck they're going to make it, often invalidating all of their prior work.

That's exactly what Renedra said. One bloke asked them to tool a sprue in two weeks!!! Renedra have told me I'm doing everything right and we are both looking forward to making this a big success. The only issue I am going to have is a lack of sculpts. I should have 3ups of one of the goblins and two of the zombies, we will also have the Headcleaver and the goblin skulk along with the flesh golem. Everything else will be supported by art work etc. unfortunately this is the best I can do as my bank account is running low!! This game is all about planning and I have made sure since the very beginning that I will be prepared. Let's just hope it goes according to plan!!!

I find the fact that the starter box will be two different traditionally "evil" races to be very interesting and refreshing.

The prices you listed for large resin models seem to be in line with other manufacturers, so they shouldn't strike a wrong chord.

Will you have pledge levels to get just zombies or just goblins? A buy in for a box or two of one or the other at some price point lower than the "sweet spot" is usually a good way to get people to pledge who may be on the fence about going "all in." or who want to wait and see what things look like before committing large amounts of cash.

That's a great question, Gallahad... I was just interested in goblins, so being able to just get one "faction" would be greatly appreciated.

You can mix and match sprues at your leisure.... In any denominations.

Enough talk, more pictures!

Ok, ok, more pics.... my word you lot are demanding

Some variations on the zombie theme. Victor has sculpted an additional head and arm combination on using the same torso and legs. I will hopefully have some more images for you soon. The miniatures have been shown in this pose just to enable you to see them more clearly and there will be more variation of pose when the boxed set is released. Although the models are designed for our own skirmish wargame; Underdeep, I am conscious that many of my creations will be winding their to all manner of mass combat battlefields. With this in mind I plan to make sure that the miniatures can "rank up" properly if desired.







You may also realise that the should pads are still the same. This is because this is a WIP model and they will be modified slightly giving more variation within the sprue.

Edited due lack of reading the above post

these zombies will be in plastic ?

Yep they will be in top quality hard plastic.

For those that have not visited we have a FB page: https://www.facebook.com/minionminiatures

This has all the photos from the KS all in one place and a fair amount of other stuff.

And due to the sundry (mis)uses by others of the term "hard plastic," when Kaine Larson says that these will be in hard plastic he means these zombies will be in injection polystyrene just like GW miniatures (and tooled by Renedra!).

This will be a KS to pledge for!

The mournful wail on moonlit nights brings terror to the farmsteads of Morn. From beneath the world, driven mad from torture, starvation and pit fighting, the Underwolves charge through the trees toward their quarry. Riding these prized mounts are the Wolf Raiders, daring, courageous goblins that dare to leave the confines of the caverns they call home and brave enough to to break the will of an Underwolf.

Like a snarling tide they butcher all in their wake and leave with livestock, weapons and other useful items the Sunsiders keep. Sometimes a quarry is unlucky enough to not fall to the razor like swords of the Wolf Raiders. These unfortunates are taken below alive for a fate worse than death...

As I've said before, artwork is good but what I'd like to see is more sculpts. Till now, we have reached 16 pages on this thread and apart all the chit-chat, you've only shown us 1 goblin and 1 zombie with 2 head and arm variations (and that only in the z-brush version) . Some people may find this sufficient but some others may not, especially from a completely unknown producer. Renedra is not going to be responsible for this project, YOU are going to be so I'm expecting to see a person really committed to doing this (and even that may not be good enough). If your bank account is running low, then find some more funds because although I appreciate the honesty, hearing there is no more money left does not put me in ease. You must be very eager to launch this, and I understand you, but it may all go down very bad and it's not good seeing how much it means to you. Something is telling me you have lots of things left to prepare however. having you saying you are launching start of September doesn't inspire much confidence (to me at least). With all honesty with the actual work put in so far this looks more like a draft to be planned for a 2015 project.
See Drakerys for a better and recent example, they had planned nicely for more than a year (I think I read somewhere 18 months) and sky-rocketed although completely unknown (like you). But if I make a comparison it's not really in your favor. Don't take this wrong I'm harsh with you because I want you to succeed, but I'm seeing holes all over. The only other thing you have in common with Drakerys is that they asked for around 35,000$ USD (which is around what you'll be needing I guess), which is anything but small. They had colored artwork, introduction videos, gameplay videos, display videos. Have you prepared those things? These don't cost that much money, it's about dedication and good planning from your part. Because I don't think you have (I hope you prove me wrong by uploading one just now, lol). They had a team of a lot of people (while you are one person only, free-lances obviously don't count). Have you considered teaming with someone else since you can't take the burden all by yourself? The French had uploaded their webpage before they launched their KS. Have you done that, and if not, will you have that ready before you launch? Drakerys had taken the effort to professionally paint their miniatures, even the ones they had not revealed, since they were SGs. My brother backed their project becuase these guys had done their work properly. Have you done the same? (food for the mind)

I appreciate your comments Siro but they seem a little too premature at the moment. The website is underway (although it will be basic to begin with), I have more digital sculpts coming, another green is on the way and I will have some 3ups done by the launch date.

I have a video being made this week for the KS page along with game play shots etc.

Your estimations on KS goal are way out I'm afraid and will be much more than this. I have no experience with manufacturing methods and/or location of the Drakerys miniatures so I would be unable to comment but the tooling will be much more expensive than that. This has always been a big ask and my team is small but dedicated.

I will work as hard as I can to make this happen and if not I will have to rethink my strategy and try again. I have already pumped lots of funds into this project and I still have some more to spend.

Again, thank you for your input Siro and if you have any other questions I would be happy to answer them.

I agree that a lot of this is in very early stages, but I appreciate that even at that early stage they've talked and met with the manufacturer (a really good one at that). I love the goblin concepts so that's what has me interested.

The wolf raider is awesome, and I might even just be in for a bunch of those. I'm guessing that model would be resin- does that mean it might have an earlier delivery timeline? It might be early to consider, but if you're looking at long lead times for plastic tooling, whether or not you want to do wave shipping is a pretty important consideration.

Note that I'm not saying you should do it, just that you should decide whether or not you want to beforehand, so that you can be organized about what would likely be ready when.

I appreciate the fast answer, maybe premature I think although I will reserve my concerns but keep watching this and am eager to see how it works out

We have had to abandon the idea of free shipping to the states and Europe (sorry). The costs made it impossible although my account worked as hard as possible to make it happen. Instead we have been able to discount shipping to the states and Europe. We will be looking at around £10 GBP to send which I hope you will consider to be reasonable. That will currently be around $16-17 or 12 EUROS.

The manufacture time for the resin and metal miniatures will be far shorter but that would lead to us having to split the shipping which again would be hugely negative in regard to any potential profits we could make. We are thinking of having a big open day in the UK with Underdeep games etc at a UK gaming centre/store where models could be picked up in person. We would also be happy for people to get their metals and resins sooner if they could pay for the postage but this is about as flexible as we could be. With Royal mail charging £34 for an average 2kg box to the US you can see how much cheaper we are.


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On a side note...this is my favourite too...I love wolf riders. We wanted to make the wolf look unhealthy but mean and lean and perhaps even a bit rat like? I think he came out well. Once more Grigor (my artist) has surpased himself. I may have sunk too much money into the artwork but I find nothing more evocative than good images.


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WE are also now on PREFUNDIA. Please click on the link and follow us!

http://prefundia.com/projects/view/minion-miniatures-30mm-plastic-fantasy-miniatures-goblins-and-zombies/2241/

As a fan of all things ratty, I love the concept for your wolf-riding goblin. And may I say, that's a particularly good illustration of the idea: lots of nasty menace and absolutely zero "ruin my suspension of disbelief" comedy. In fantasy, everything is inherently ridiculous. Whether it seems so in the sculpt, text, or movie is all down to execution. The text rings appropriately creepy, too. The kidnapping element reminds me a bit of the dark side of faerie from "Don't be Afraid of the Dark." Just one niggle: If you ever publish that text, please change "The mournful wail on moonlit nights brings terror to the farmsteads of Morn." There are a few too many mournful mourners mourning in Morn this morning, if you get my drift.

I can't wait to see the renders for the goblins. If they're anything like these drawings, I'm sold on getting myself a skirmish force of them. I've already rationalized your Gobbos as appropriate for a race of low-tech Aliens on a backwater planet.

I don't know if you'll stay this particular course, but I also love the idea of "Underdeep" as a fantasy skirmish game that focuses particularly on evil underworld factions, as one of your early facebook posts described it. That would be much more focused and flavorful than a generic fantasy world of elves, orcs, humans, blah blah blah, and in my opinion, would make your game much more attractive to me than, since Sirio brought it up, Drakerys. For me, a game focused exclusively on underground, evil races would be like a Godzilla movie with all the boring, tedious, poorly acted "human drama" parts cut out and all the excellent monster battles kept in. In other words, pure gold that I'd jump my sci-fi fence for.

Although with a setting like Underdeep, you might want to tap a Cthulhu-style vein at some point. Tentacled, mutant, amorphous, corrupted, wisdom man wasn't meant to know, eldritch, whatever. Unspeakable beings from the places "where Dark things sleep," as Tolkien would have it (and even arch-classicist Tolkien had a "Watcher in the Water," and hinted at nameless things lurking down in the darkness of Moria). Fantasy miniature campaigns routinely forget just how popular Cthulhu is on Kickstarter, leaving it aside I guess because it's too associated with 1920's American horror settings (even though Lovecraft and Robert E. Howard were friends, and lovecraftian monsters often felt the bite of Conan's blade in his original stories, not to mention Clark Ashton Smith's excellent fantasy tales. Anyone who hasn't should read Smith's "The Seven Geases" for a particularly excellent example. Just don't mind the underwhelming ending, which is as poor as the one in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. As in that movie, it's the journey there that counts.)

That doesn't mean you need Shoggoths per se in your game.* Sorcerous serpentmen or Ghoul (non-undead, gnoll / bestial style) or fishmen cults or even (gasp) less conventional** demons could fill that void. Undead are great in a different way but they don't fit that particular bill, mostly because they tend to be tightly bound by ironclad, well-known superstitious conventions regarding their capabilities, behaviors, and weaknesses, and by extremely hierarchical organization (a dread master or two and his mindless slaves) rather than independent / alien thinkers with unknowable motivations. They are horrific, but known quantities.***

Regarding charging shipping to the US, I think it is certainly fair, and I believe you that it is a good deal. It is a price I'm willing to pay, and I've paid shipping from UK KS campaigns before. To be honest, though, I do think you will see reduced perception of value and reduced participation from US customers in general for doing this, and it may bump your KS campaign from contention for million dollar plus explosion status down to a more modest "well, we got the Goblins funded at least" category. The problem is that regardless of how good the value is otherwise, paying for shipping, particularly paying more than average shipping to get something from abroad, has a psychological aspect for American internet consumers now, one that I would lay largely at the feet of Amazon. It isn't fair, logical, sensible, or reasonable, but I actually think you would be better off raising your pledge or add-on prices and keeping the free shipping, just for the salesmanship aspect, particularly since you are running your project in pounds.

Again, as a US customer, I'm fine with paying shipping, and I don't believe I deserve special treatment relative to other buyers from other countries. But in terms of trying to put myself in your shoes and think strategically about the realities of the American market and how to make the most from it, I would try to make free shipping work if I aspired to running a mega-successful campaign.

If just getting the Goblins funded, with an outside chance on the Undead, is just fine for you, and perhaps much more advisable as a way to begin and build your business with a smaller initial market offering and less risk, then I say charge for shipping. I don't see why, particularly with your informed, friendly, timely, and highly responsive style, that you couldn't meet with at least as much success as BattleSystems recently did.

And make no mistake, keeping that rapport going with supporters and interested parties on forums, and most of all on the KS comments section when this launches, is absolutely critical to your success, no matter how little you've slept or how much micro-managing you need to do behind the scenes of "more important" aspects. Perhaps it shouldn't be, but KS is part theater and all salesmanship, and you need more or less constant interaction and openness, especially as a new company, to get the most from your campaign. See BattleSystems for how to do this well. If you find you can't keep up with all the commentary and respond to questions in a timely manner, hire someone to do it for you. So far, you're definitely on the right track.

*Mi-Go and Ithaqua / Wendigo types you do need, because market research conducted by my private team suggests that I love them and I said so.

** No devil tails, rigid Machiavellian hierarchy of hell, familiars, pointy beards, witch / warlock summoners, or pentagrams. All of which are fine, but like traditional undead, fall into the category of rule-bound Western folklore rather than suggesting the unknowable Beyond. Doesn't mean you can't do them in that style and meet success, not at all, they just wouldn't appeal as Lovecraftian.

*** "The undead are all the dread darkness my game needs, Arch-Asterisked Digressor! Screw Lovecraft, and screw you for telling me how to run my fantasy franchise, Vermonter! Speaking of stale conventions, Lovecraftian horror is the most overdone, predictable, rancid fare out there! What do you want me to do, churn out more August Derleth styled knock-off drivel?"
Ooh, Derleth was a low blow. Fair enough! I just like dark, unknowable, Lovecrafty things, no matter how commercially run into the ground they've been, and I had to make my pitch. And give me some credit, here; I didn't even mention D&D's mindflayers / illithid of Underdark. Except I just did . . . no, keep that knowable, non-tentacular evil fantasy archetype away from me . . . but Cthulhu sells . . . aaiieee!!

Vermonter...you are a post writing God...so entertaining. The Cthulhu vibe will be there. We will be doing a subterranean fish people/deep ones type race with all manner of nasty badies of the an octopoid bent. As I have said before we are angling for a fantasy RPG idea here and the rules will have a section on "binding" weird underground gribblies to do your bidding like (and I am trying not to cross boundaries here - UNDER Hulks, Bladed Horrors, Muttering mouth creatures etc)....sad thing is I made myself laugh writing that...nevermind...

This means that every force can have a mage of sorts controlling random Underdeep monsters. Although I have not focused on this during this KS I will certainly be adding these creatures to the game. The Goblin Shaman comes with a giant spider he has bound and can be used as such.

One last point the Zombies and Goblins will now be funded together meaning both boxed sets will be available at the same time.

 Vermonter wrote:
I don't know if you'll stay this particular course, but I also love the idea of "Underdeep" as a fantasy skirmish game that focuses particularly on evil underworld factions, as one of your early facebook posts described it. That would be much more focused and flavorful than a generic fantasy world of elves, orcs, humans, blah blah blah, and in my opinion, would make your game much more attractive to me than, since Sirio brought it up, Drakerys. For me, a game focused exclusively on underground, evil races would be like a Godzilla movie with all the boring, tedious, poorly acted "human drama" parts cut out and all the excellent monster battles kept in. In other words, pure gold that I'd jump my sci-fi fence for.

This exactly is what makes me so interested. The setting really fits a skirmish game with small warbands fighting each other.I think good races could also appear at some point. The underground dwellers don't need to be all evil necessarily.

And I would really like to see and paint some nice drow models.

A drow with drider plastic frame is a real possibility at some stage. I think Lizardkin would be next along with maybe Gnolls and Orcs... We have plans for Sunsiders, dwarven Treasure a Hunters, drow, fish men, dark dwarves, and also the larger races like trolls and Minotaurs in plastic.

Kaine,

Do you any any updates on the game rules? Will the rules be available during the KS?

We are still play testing but they will be available during KS as PDF download. All models are independent like GWs Lotr game. There is "fog of war" style activation where your opponent knows how many activations you have in a phase but you do not. The combat mechanic also allows you to exchange hits in combat for special attacks or abilities. So far we have had some very fun games. The factions also play very differently. The idea is that the living rulebook will be changed throughout the KS and fulfilment period. We want the game to be played as much as possible so when we print the rule book it will be as perfect as possible!

The wolfraider isn't really doing much for me, I have to say. I think it has to do with the wolf's design. It doesn't really look much like a wolf. To me it looks more like a giant rat.

The styling of the Underwolf was an amalgamation of a wolf and a rat. We wanted the creature to be different normal wolves, a canine creature that has been bred and rented in the darkness to become a whole new species. I appreciate it's not going to be to everyone's taste but I didn't want to stick them on a normal wolf as it would make sense in our game world.

The wolf rider looks great, I've said it many times, but this aesthetic is wonderful!

Thank you Paradigm. By the way we should have sculpts for the plastic goblin, Bugbear Ironshield and the Goblin Skulk sometime next week! For to look forward to.

Also the project is now on Prefundia with some (only some at this stage) of the KS graphics etc. If anyone is thinking of jumping on board Prefundia is great place to start. Plus it means you will get a warning when the project is live!.

http://prefundia.com/projects/view/minion-miniatures-30mm-plastic-fantasy-miniatures-goblins-and-zombies/2241/

The art on that page looks good, I don't see any info on numbers in the boxes, prices, or expected lead time, though. All things I'm sure you're looking into, but remember on the last one that it's better to overestimate than underestimate by months / even years, as many campaigns have done . Hopefully, you can give Renedra an accurate number of sprues and mold split / layout work on their end, and they can give you an accurate estimate of how long it will take.

Before any of that happens, the sculpts need to be finished, of course... so that's another variable. Arena Rex has been held hostage by one sculptor taking forever (Mikh), so making sure you have contracts in place that you can take the work to another sculptor if one is not delivering in a timely manner would be wise.

Sculptors are all in place, numbers are ready, Renedra are set. Manufacturer is happy with what we are doing and ready to go. Due to lead times manufacturing of the plastics cant start until about April next year so we are looking at a delivery time of September 2015. Renedra are happy enough with what they have seen to book us into their timetable already so I don't think there should be too many hold ups. The images on the Prefundia site at the moment are just an overview of the models that will form the core KS. Over the next week or so the pledge levels and stretchgoals will be added with associated costs. In order to attract more pledgers we have had to introduce the Zombie and Goblins at the same time so the intial KS funding goal is higher than expected but I hope the increased traffic will cover this. Most importantly the accountant is happy that the figures stack up!


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Just to let you know the sprues are formed from two half sprues. They will be similar to some of the Perry sprues in that they will have 6 bodies on them heads and weapon options. The Sprue will then be repeated with different weapon options. Once the command sprue is funded the boxed set should be 26 models for around the £20 mark at retail although in the KS you get the KS exclusive Goblin Skulk model as well which is looking awesome.

The boxed set will be 4 x 4 half sprues, each holding 6 figures with different head and weapon options including spearmen, bowmen and sword and shield. There will be roughly 30-40 heads per boxed set to give a nice variation and each body can be used for all weapon options. There will also be some additional gear like quivers, shoulder guards etc.

The command sprue will hold another two different bodies plus parts to make a Champion, Standard Bearer and musician. Obviously one of the boxed set miniatures will have to be used to fulfill the musician if needed. In the Zombie boxed set the Champion will be a heavily armoured version of a normal zombie and the standard will be some form of unholy icon. The Musician model will be a zombie with a rack on its back with a large bell on it.

The Goblins will be a Goblin champion, more heavily armoured than usual, a standard bearer and a musician in the form of a tribal style drummer, we may even have a drum bearing creature of sorts...we have not discussed that yet.

The pledge levels will allow the following:

£1 - Thanks
£10 Goblin Skulk and access to the addon store (lots of goodies to be had in here)
£24 - 24 plastic miniatures, plus the Goblin Skulk model.
£60 - EB Starter Set - 36 Goblins and 36 Zombies and Skulk. Qualify for free addons. (0.83 per model) - Limited to 600
£70 - Starter Set - 36 Goblins and 36 Zombies and Skulk. Qualify for free addons. (0.97 per model)
£90 - Warband - 108 plastic miniatures and Skulk. (0.83 per model)
£110 - Battleforce - 144 plastic models of your choice plus Skulk (0.76 per model)
£120 - Horde - 192 plastic models of your choice plus Skulk (0.62 per model) - Limited to 600
£200 - 3-UP Frenzy - 216 plastic models of your choice plus Skulk and three of our 3 UP models on display bases. - Limited to 200.
£200 - SWARM - 360 plastic models of your choice plus Skulk (0.55 per model), for those who want to build a really big army! - Limited to 200

There are some additional pledges available that you will see when the KS starts
All models will be supplied with either 30mm round lipped bases or 25mm square bases.

Well, if those end up being the pledge levels I'd likely be looking for someone on here to split a Swarm pledge with. Very very attractive prices.

Would you consider supplying the models with 20mm square bases? I believe this is standard in other games. At the least the goblins would look better on 20mm square ones, and be more usable, although I have tons of cheap Proxie Models brand bases so it's not a huge issue for me personally.

Sorry that was a typo ... It should 20mm.

Very nice set of pledge levels there.

Can see the 200 SWARM pledges going very quickly, it is not often that a KS offers that much value right off the bat.

Would you recommend increasing the EB's on it?

To be honest, I dislike number limited EB pledges. If you come into the kickstarter late (sometimes even hours late) it really feels like a let down. I don't mind time cutoff EB's nearly as much because at least there everyone who backed in the first week or so has the option.

I don't mind pledges that are limited because of product (like your 3UP's for instance).

I've not really thought about that. Perhaps I could modify it to time based? I'll have a think about it.

Just a sneak peak of KS exclusive model. The sculpt has just been finished and I have a quick I phone pic of it. There will be a better one as soon as I receive the model but I think you will agree that Robby Crawforth has done an awesome job staying original to the concept art!

Kaine Larson wrote:
Would you recommend increasing the EB's on it?

With Swarm, it depends on how much takeup there is on the £200 3-up pledge level.

Can see a lot more people wanting another 150 models rather than three 3-ups, so you may find as the campaign progresses that more people want Swarm and fewer want the 3-ups.

For reference, Mantic never sold out of their "collectors range" 3-up models, despite only 75 of each being produced, they were on the webstore for years.

That said, you can change quantities after the KS launches so there is no harm in waiting for a pledge level to fill up before making any decisions on exactly how limited it is... if all the swarm levels get taken, that's £40k on its own, and from there you'll be in a good position to calculate whether you want to unlock more or reduce the 3-up pledge in favour of more swarm.

Think the pledges look pretty solid personally, you have three very distinct levels of investment at roughly $100, $200 and $300 so its easy to get into and easy to raise a pledge from there.

I'm starting to really like the sound of the rules, so I think I'll end up going for goblins and zombies.

I hope the goblin and that big head are separate pieces! If so, good, and looking forward to a better picture.

I wasn't aware you cod change the EB levels once the KS had started, that's good news. I think perhaps putting swarm up to 300 and dropping the 3ups down to 100 would work better.

The head on the skulk is a removable piece.

The undead are cool, but seeing that you're planning to do fishmens, a chtulu race and insectoid, I think they coul;d have wait :p

I really like the wolf-rat rider, look lethal and filthy.

Hi Kaine something that might be worth considering for the starter set pledges would be allowing people to choose just goblins or zombies, ie two boxes rather than being prescriptive ans forcing obe of each

Yeah I thought exactly that. I think I will change it. It was focused at people playing our game but there is no middle ground for other buyers. Plus it would then fit in with the other pledges. The only thing to remember is that miniature choices must be in multiples of 6 as they come 6 to a half sprue.

I like the look of the goblins. I look forward to this campaign.

I like that Lizardman concept art, and look forward to see what gets offered for them!

And that giant armored goblin - nice!

If you're offering early birds you've got to be VERY careful of having them on multiple levels,

backers may well grab one of each (on separate KS accounts) and then decide later on which one to keep leading to a drop in pledge amount and backer number

this drop may then scare away folk who are not terribly committed to the KS leading to further drops and kicking the project into a downward spiral that can be very hard to recover from without throwing a lot of free stuff at backers

(check out Mars Attacks from Mantic for a good example of this)

so I'd advise being very careful about the total number/value of early birds out there, and possibly limiting them to your 'sweetspot' level

Very good advice. I will have a look into this. I think it would be ok for the very big pledge level like 2k and the 5k ones we have planned. Maybe I should just do the early bird on the starter set?

I'd say just have EB on the starter (or whatever you think/hope will be the most popular pledge),

for the really big pledge levels you hopefully have enough added value built in that they should 'sell' to those interested anyway

Will the Skulk be resin or metal?

There is a thing that needs clarification and it's connected with the game system and rules that will accompany the models. If I didn't understood wrongly it is going to be a skirmish game with the miniatures on round bases. Therefore how big a "normal" army would be. How many models? By "normal" I mean a size that the game will be based on. A skirmish game would not need theoretically more than 50 models maximum for each army/warband. Otherwise wouldn't be described as skirmish.

Of course it would be possible to use the models for other games but I would like to know what the needs of your game will be, as I would be interested in playing it and delve into the Underdeep world

I asked the same question before, but I think the answer is obvious for why one would need all these models. You don't! This is simply done in order to justify the large number of miniatures provided and cover the costs Renedra is going to charge in order to make this happen. I've already asked 3 times, this is the fourth, what the funding goal of this project will be, but it has been dodged succesfully till now.
The fact is I am/was (haven't decided yet) still very interested in this till today, after the announcement from Shieldwolf and their contemporaneous work and them painting goblin sculpts (I don't think I've ever seen something like this before happen ever), it's a divided choice whether they'll choose to back this project or wait for the competition to produce their own.
Personally I hope it works well for both!

The game will be scaleable and therefore it could be played with as many as 100 models. The core game will be much like GW's LOTR in size, anywhere from 20-70 m odels would probably be the norm. We have played m ost of the play tests with around 50 models. Usually somewhere between 30-50 Minions and a scattering of Champions, Brutes and of course the Overlord.

The Starter Pack pledge will work for our game although for larger games (and the rules will work at a larger scale) the larger pledges will work for people who want to purchase more than one faction as all the pledges can be split.

Of course there is also other gaming systmes and roleplaying gamws for which the models can be used. We are not niave enough to think we can fund this KS based solely on our own game. We know that the huge amount of mass combat gamers and roleplayers would always be a major target of our KS.

As we have always said our models are for the gaming community at large and we support their use in any game system.


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To answer Siros question I could not give you a figure before because talks were ongoing with Renedra about the best way to handle the KS. Now we have met with Renedra again and discussed what we can manufacture in the first instance I can give an exact amount for the KS. In order to cover all of Renedra's manufacturing costs and the scultpors rates for sculpting the entire frame we wiell be looking at Kickstarter target of £80,000.

This would mean that we would be able to offer both of the boxed sets at the same time and not just one which would limit the appeal to just people who wanted Goblins. The original idea was just to do the Goblin KS on its own with Hobgoblins and Bugbears as well. This meant that we would be looking at roughly £65k just to get this sprue done. I think by offering both boxed sets together we will appeal to a larger potenital pledger base.

I love the Shieldwold Orcs and I also wish them luck in regard to their goblins. The concept art was very good but does confirm to the more usually accepted concept for the Goblins. Our goblins are very different and therefore I am sure there is space for both of our products.

I will confirm at this point that the target is not unrealistic and doesnt provide us with huge amounts of profit. It allows us to make and manufacture the models required as well leaving a little for us to manufacture additional boxed sets to sell after the KS.

The total has been based entirely on the huge cost of manufacturing plastic miniatures to the quality we require and I hope our customers understand this. We know its a lot but we feel the potential rewards plus our awesome stretchgoals would make this a rewarding KS.

Kaine Larson wrote:

The Starter Pack pledge will work for our game although for larger games (and the rules will work at a larger scale) the larger pledges will work for people who want to purchase more than one faction as all the pledges can be split.

I didn't realize this!

My pledge just went up by quite a bit, I think!

Kaine Larson wrote:
The game will be scaleable and therefore it could be played with as many as 100 models. The core game will be much like GW's LOTR in size, anywhere from 20-70 models would probably be the norm. We have played most of the play tests with around 50 models. Usually somewhere between 30-50 Minions and a scattering of Champions, Brutes and of course the Overlord.

Thanks for this clarification Kaine!

This project of Minion Minis was mentioned in one of the messages we received in our Facebook page. I must admit we don't really have time to follow much of what is happening around us, we are too busy working on our game. From waht I've seen your goblins look really nice and different Kaine and we too wish you success in creating them, this comes from the heart.
Also, from our experience Renedra is a great choice and I'm sure the final product will be very nice. :-)

Kaine Larson wrote:
Wonderfully productive meeting today with the friendly folks at Renedra. I can now confirm the Kickstarter basic funding target will include both the Goblin boxed set and the zombie boxed set. The first stretchgoal will see the addition of a command sprue for both factions. Beyond this will be a host of both free and purchased addon stretch goals. The final figures for the KS are not 100% finalised yet but will be manageable. We went with Renedra because their quality is unsurpassed and I wanted the figures to be of the highest quality possible. This does not come cheap but I am sure you would agree that quality had to be the ultimate goal. To clarify we are concentrating solely on the basic figures of the range in plastic now. The hobgoblins, bugbears, flesh golem and zombie hulk will be metal and resin stretchgoals. For those Lizardkin fans amongst you (and i know there are a few of you) the Lizardkin boxed set will be a later stretchgoal. Due to the enormous demand and hugely detailed work that Renedra do there wi be a 12 month wait before delivery of these models although we will aim to shorten this if possible. I hope this gives you a bit more information about where the KS is heading. Any questions?

Sounds good, and good that you're upfront about it. Make sure that you pad your fulfilment time to keep it realistic. If Renedra says 12 months, make sure you add on the month it takes for you to get the money from Kickstarter, time for sculpting to be completed, time for you to pack the eventual orders, a month or two for gak-happens and a month and a half for the non-productive time that is Chinese New Year.


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Sirio wrote:
If he replaces the heads of the goblins like the GW ones, he'll lose all the originality (which is what has made me like this, and I'm sure a lot of other people too). He'd also lose al credibility when his artwork has nothing to do with the final product.

Very disappointed about the 10 figures becoming 6 figures per sprue, goblins are very small and it's not like you can have different torsos and legs, so unless I'm wrong and torsos+legs are separate modular pieces that is downgrading the featured sprue quite a bit from what you had said initially.

On the other hand free shipping for USA and E.U. sounds very nice, glad you are considering this especially for people who would like a lot of goblins (and zombies maybe).

6 figures per sprue isn't necessarily a downgrade - it depends on how many you end up with in the end. You might now end up with 12 or 24 in a retail box instead of 10 or 20 (or 18). I'm sure Kaine can confirm one way or another.

I'm also wanting to know what's going to happen with Oceanic/RoW shipping. I know a lot of UK retailers use the non-Eurozone "VAT" to cover most of shipping to RoW locations on retail purchases, but Mantic manages to provide decently-priced courier shipping. I'm hoping that we won't simply be an afterthought.


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Kaine Larson wrote:

The pledge levels will allow the following:

£1 - Thanks
£10 Goblin Skulk and access to the addon store (lots of goodies to be had in here)
£24 - 24 plastic miniatures, plus the Goblin Skulk model.
£60 - EB Starter Set - 36 Goblins and 36 Zombies and Skulk. Qualify for free addons. (0.83 per model) - Limited to 600
£70 - Starter Set - 36 Goblins and 36 Zombies and Skulk. Qualify for free addons. (0.97 per model)
£90 - Warband - 108 plastic miniatures and Skulk. (0.83 per model)
£110 - Battleforce - 144 plastic models of your choice plus Skulk (0.76 per model)
£120 - Horde - 192 plastic models of your choice plus Skulk (0.62 per model) - Limited to 600
£200 - 3-UP Frenzy - 216 plastic models of your choice plus Skulk and three of our 3 UP models on display bases. - Limited to 200.
£200 - SWARM - 360 plastic models of your choice plus Skulk (0.55 per model), for those who want to build a really big army! - Limited to 200

You need to fix these. Over-limiting sets is not a good thing, you'll just encourage camping.

Based on these, I'd be camping a £200 - SWARM and a £120 - Horde - and dropping one at the end of the campaign. Being "limited" to 600 sets, you may as well just drop the Battleforce level entirely. Even Warband ends up being a bit of a joke in comparison. Having your highest-number pledge level - the "build a big army" set - limited at all (and worse - to 200) is stupid. Especially when these big sets are going to make getting larger chunks of funding easier. You should instead be encouraging people to upgrade to Horde and SWARM - including via the pledge manager, post-campaign.

Despite the enthusiasm here, and ScarletSquig's over-enthusiasm earlier on, we really don't know if this campaign will do gangbusters or simply decently (or even badly). There are no humans or good races, which (despite what some here say) isn't a good thing for sales. I know people who will only play good races - I'm not one of them, obviously , but they're out there. It's probably going to limit your earnings in this campaign as well, so you can probably safely forget getting half a million (dollars, not quid). Not I'm not asking you to change it - just stating facts. But the last thing you need is overly-optimistic limited-pledge numbers kicking your arse with backsliding at the end (or worse - the middle) of the campaign when people drop one or the other of their camped pledges. Ask Mantic about that from DeadZone and Mars Attacks.

Games and Gears that had 1000 "limited" sets available for one board, but only 100 for two boards and 45 for three. Guess which one sold out and which one had 600 sets left? Shame, since they surely lost a TON of business on the 2-board sets, since they expected people to pony up an extra 50% for an additional board. Result? I bought three with 2 accounts, though a lot of people wouldn't bother at all.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/554355176/games-and-gears-battle-boards

They also thought that their higher-priced add-ons - resin scenery, overlays, etc would be a great way to supplement their KS funding. Kind of fits your resin add-on models criteria. They were very disappointed when many people just stuck to boards. Lots of KS messages imploring people to tell their friends, and if everyone just bought another £10 resin add-on thing we could meet this stretch or that. The add-ons are nice, but they're not why we - or you - are here. I'm sure your resins will be very nice, but I can buy awesome resins from anywhere now and have them delivered quickly. Plastic goblins or zombies that look like this? Not so many choices - especially for these prices.

Kaine Larson wrote:
I wasn't aware you cod change the EB levels once the KS had started, that's good news. I think perhaps putting swarm up to 300 and dropping the 3ups down to 100 would work better.

Once a project has started, you can't alter a pledge level if someone has pledged to it. You can cap the pledge level, so no one else can pledge to it.

You can also add new pledge levels at any time.

Azazelx, thank you for your information. It is difficult for me as I have been given lots of conflicting advice in regard to pledge levels. I am thinking if having Earlybirds on the starter set and the swarm pledges only. Making them 600 a piece. If the command sprues are funded they are free to every pledger who has at least four sprues and will be given away at a ratio of 1:4. It seems this multiple account pledging can be an issue but is difficult to avoid.

Not only can can you change any EB pledge after the campaign has launched, you can change EVERY pledge level there is. Be careful that noone has pledged however, if a single pledge is done then you cannot do that any longer and it might cause you a lot of damage.
I'll agree with the EBs, I too use two accounts and decide what's more conveneient for me two or three days before it ends.
I would have liked very much the free shipping but 10 pounds for international shipping is also very reasonbale.

Kaine Larson wrote:
Azazelx, thank you for your information. It is difficult for me as I have been given lots of conflicting advice in regard to pledge levels. I am thinking if having Earlybirds on the starter set and the swarm pledges only. Making them 600 a piece. If the command sprues are funded they are free to every pledger who has at least four sprues and will be given away at a ratio of 1:4. It seems this multiple account pledging can be an issue but is difficult to avoid.

Have early birds on the base box set/$100 type level. I see no point in having any limits on Swarm, and an EB of 600 units is silly - you're not Zombicide, and the 246 unsold "limited" Swarm spots will look bad for new pledgers.


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I only use 2 accounts (my wife's actually) when there's a compelling reason to - either because the creator is fething with us (G&G, Empress) or when there's compelling reasons to camp one or another pledge levels (some of the semi-recent Mantic campaigns)

I have posted the finished Goblin Skulk along with a scale comparison for you.







This miniature, just to confirm, will be free to all pledges from the Boxed Set 24 miniature pledge and above.

2cm is tiny, isn't it?

What size are the Undead and Lizardmen going to be?

I love the top 200 pound Swarm deal, so I hope you decide to keep it regardless of whether or not it is limited. However, because it looks like such a good deal, I wasn't sure if that's why you were limiting it to a certain quantity. If you're able to sell at that price no problem due to the quantity / it being a large pledge, then making it unlimited would make me very happy.

Basically, just don't take away options you are planning on having! Having less pledge levels that are "limited" can be both good and bad- personally, I think it's totally fine to have multiple levels that are limited. Creature Caster, for instance, did this for bronze and silver and gold levels- and it worked out totally, 100% fine.

Most of the goblins are 22mm to the eyeline. He is a bit shorter as he is stooping. They are almost exactly as tall as GW's goblins, their Night Goblin plastics are in fact a little smaller.

Ninja'ed you above, Kaine. And yeah, that looks like plenty tall for a goblin, to me.

RiTides - I am keeping the Horde deal and just making it unlimited! I have taken the advice that a fgew folks have given and limited the early birds to the starter sets and swarm deals.

 RiTides wrote:
Ninja'ed you above, Kaine. And yeah, that looks like plenty tall for a goblin, to me.

Good for you?

I wasn't aware all goblins were weedly shrimps, but it is good to know that these will be!

Now I'm really hoping for Lizardmen...

Not as much as I am! If they fund the KS would have gone amazingly well!

EDIT: Never mind. Hadn't refreshed the page recently...

I know I've posted this before but this post corresponds with a post title change.

PREFUNDIA PAGE: http://prefundia.com/projects/view/minion-miniatures-30mm-plastic-fantasy-miniatures-goblins-and-zombies/2241/

We want as many peopel to see this page as we can!!

Also there are now pics of the new Goblin render on our facebook page:

THESE ARE ONLY WIP SHOTS!!!

"The difference in this world is that the Sunsiders are generally only minor players in this vast world, a world where evil battles evil on an almost contestant basis." (Prefundia page)

So it's like some sort of twisted underworld game show?

Goblin render looks great!

Thank you very much!! There will be a nice big slice of Sunsiders at some point but plenty of time for evil doers first of all!!

Just a quick bit of feedback on the prefundia page:

Bugbear Ironshield and Hobgoblin Legionary (in deathmask). The hobgoblins will be resin or white metal models with a choice of bare heads or deathmasked heads.

Provide both head options - don't make people choose. It's only a tiny bit of extra metal or resin on the sprue, and most people really appreciate the extra parts and options to change their minds once the figures are in-hand..

Poor choice of words. They come with a choice of heads is how it should read. Both will be provided.

good show

Why was this not posted?

The Goblin King!




The Goblin King with flunky guards!




Sadly he doesn't look like David Bowie, but that can be forgiven in this case.

What size base would the King be on if he's got his cronies waving dangerous objects with him?

My word... I don't even get a chance to post these days

Actually it helps when other people do it as time is not something I seem to have a lot of these days.

The Goblin King (sadly not David Bowie) although it did cross our mind to do a David Bowie like figure.

The Goblin King, in play testing, was always a single model with seperate guards. However, we like artwork so much we were thinking of incorporating the guards on to one big base. The reason behind this is the guards had a sacrifice rule which means they can be eliminated instead of the King taking damage. Instead we have kind of made the King base a monster like unit with all the attacks of the guards incorporated into his profile.

I hope you guys like the art work. The Sculpt will be underway soon.

I like the idea of the guards on the same base. Nice art!

Thanks RiTides. I must confess the idea of putting them all on one base was made purely for aesthetic reasons but the rules work well so thats good. I'm pleased you like the art. This art has gone down really well so far, I think its one of the best pieces yet!

I was about to say - awful likeness - Looks nothing like Bowie!

Ha ha... no we did try a nice 80's mullet and some skintight leather trousers but somehow it didn't look right...

How about a nice codpiece?

Yeah...should have done that instead!

By the way, the Bugbear Ironshield render is nearly done and looking good. I should be posting in a few days!!

Hi guys,

Sorry for the lack of posts recently.... So much to do in preparation for the KS. Anyway. I have posted the WIP for the Bugbear Ironshield (just a headshot) and the new Underdeep logo.

I like them both. Bugbear looks brutal!

How much of that detail will actually translate to the final product? Don't get me wrong - I *love* the model, and even with significantly less fine detail it will still be an awesome model (and in any case, beyond my skill with a brush ), but it does look somewhat like what we usually see when video game designers start designing 28mm minis.
What worries me most is how "shallow" the edge of the helmet seems to sit over the skin on the forehead and around the ears; losing some wrinkles is fine, but definition on that helmet should be crisp (and rather exaggerated, to be decently paintable for mere mortals...).

The Bugbear is 70mm tall. Also our sculptor has worked on some of the recent high end KS projects so understands what will translate and what wont. In plastic the translation might be an issue but this chap will be cast in high end resin. I dont think it will be too much of an issue for this model in particular.

We have also discussed the renders in regard to the plastic models with Renedra and they are always trying to push bounds of what can be translated in plastic. Plastic moulding has issues with any part of the sculpt that will cause the model to snag shen being removed from the tool. The areas where there are overhangs cause the most problems, especially when the curve over and form a catching point.

They are so far happy that there will only be minimal changes needed after 3D printing. This is normal after all 3d printing in preparation for tooling.

Im glad you like the logo and the face of the mini!

Oh. I was assuming him to be a 28mm model (wth, I seem to have 'encountered' rather cuddlier bugbears than you have ).

70mm tall resin explains everything. My bad! What price point would it be at, roughly? looks like a nice brush challenge at that size.

I have always loved Bugbears so I have gone all out here!!! I may have exaggerated. He is actually 66mm tall at the moment. His shield is fecking enormous!!!

The Bugbears are not as large in most fantasy RPG's but what the hell...I need big gribblies for our game so thats enough of an excuse for me!!

The model is in fact a stetchgoal. Once he is funded he will be added to the addon store for £18.

Well, it seems to be working out pretty nicely at that size. I probably won't have a huge budget available for this KS and I'm not going for huge model counts any more, but a few choice items like this will be a no-brainer for me

Bugbear looks fantastic so far.

Well, it seems to be working out pretty nicely at that size. I probably won't have a huge budget available for this KS and I'm not going for huge model counts any more, but a few choice items like this will be a no-brainer for me

Bolognesus - Hopefully the KS will hit the stretchgoals to open this up for you. You can place a small pledge for the Goblin Skulk or the boxset pledge and have full access to the addon store.

Bugbear looks fantastic so far.

Thanks Gallahad... much appreciated!!

Kaine- I forget, do the pledges include shipping? If they didn't, having to pay 10 pounds for the goblin skulk, plus shipping, to get add-ons access might be steep (if it includes shipping, I'd say it's the opposite, quite a good deal!).

Free shipping to the UK. There will be shipping to the US i'm afraid. There is no way we can make it free to the US and the ROW. We have tried our best. I have not got the shipping rates on me but the shipping costs are very low for the Skulk! I think its about £2 or $3.30.

I will have to confirm that though.

Yeah, I'll likely get the box set+skulk at least.

How about shipping to the EU?

So, no way to just pledge for add-ons without paying 10 pounds for skulk? That's $16.50 USD for a goblin people may not even want if they're just looking for add-ons.

I think that's a mistake, and I'd add a 1-pound (plus shipping) "add-ons only" pledge level. People who want to buy two resin bugbears will help your campaign a lot, but they won't be nearly as likely to do it if they have to pay 10 pounds just for the chance to do so.

It's always good to have a pledge level to entice people to dip their toes in, and I think forcing people to buy skulk is a needless barrier to entry. If you don't change that, you'd be forcing a ROW backer to pay 30+ pounds (with the size of the "+" depending on final shipping costs) just to get one bugbear

That's a very good point and one I have already thought of! I have made a mistake...access to the addons is £1. Free stretchgoals come in at the starter set and above. I think we originally had access to addons at the Skulk pledge but we changed it. I was trying to remember off the top of my head. I will make a more comprehensive list of pledges and postage costs tomorrow when my head is not clouded by beer and tiredness!!

Well even that's just perfect then . I will likely be after a bugbear or two even if I decide I don't need hordes more figures to paint lol, like Bolognesus above. This enables you to go after both the Mantic (tons of minis) and Kingdom Death (high end resins) crowds

Oh great.

More miniatures I *have* to get and paint. Why would you guys do this? I mean look at those zombies. Who's going to resist that?

All I want to do is finish painting the miniatures I own.

This is what I get for wandering around Dakka away from the 40k section

Riven skull - please accept my sincere apologies. As a man with more lead and plastic in my house than it can structurally withstand, I know what you mean. I have 42 boxes of perry plastics.... 42 boxes! What did I do today... I bought 2 more for my WOTR army....

Commercially I say.... Look at the shiney's....look at the shiney's... Credit cards are just virtual money... It doesn't count! Those zombies are nice aren't they?


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The Kickstarter as it stands is as follows:

Initial KS target is £80k (I know its high but its unavoidable based on product quality)

The basic package will be the Goblin and Zombie sprues. These are half sprues with 6 figures on each of them (done much in the style of the Perry half sprues) and they will be attached together to form the full 12 man sprue. The goblin sprues will have 6 bodies and about 10-14 heads plus arm options for Bows on sprue 1 and arm options for spears and swords/shields on sprue 2). The zombie will be similar except they will have less weapon options as they will be close combat weapons only. There will be a lot of variety here to make many combinations.

The basic KS total also includes the addition of the Bugbear Ironshield and the Flesh Golem to the addon store.

Any back who pledges at least £1 will receive access to the addon store.

The Underdeep rules will accessible to anyone through the KS page. It will be a basic pdf document at this stage with not much in the way of additional graphics but will outline the core rules and allow people to play small battles. It will include rules for using most of the KS miniatures as well as providing some counters to use as proxies during playing. The idea of this document is to get feedback to hone the rules before printing. There will be a feedback email address to help us in this regard.

Shipping costs are unavoidable for non UK customers. The manufacturing aspect is very expensive and means that the KS is finely balanced to make us a small profit. The main emphasis is to get the tools made. This does not leave us with a lot of potential profit to play with in regard to offering free postage worldwide or even to the Eurozone and the US. Believe me I have really tried to do this but it is not possible without raising the KS goal and base prices of the pledges.

However, what I have been able to do is reduce the cost of the postage through an affiliation with a large UK based distributor. The highest charge for postage on the top end pledges (£200+) is only £12 to the US and Europe and £15 ROW. This is around a 60% on Royal mail and most courier prices. We have absorbed this into our costs but it is the best we can do.

There is now only one Early Bird pledge and that is the starter set at £60. However, our recommended pledge for those of you wanting to make large armies fast would be our Horde pledge. This pledge gives you 192 plastic models plus our Goblin Skulk model. There is a huge saving on RRP with this pledge with each miniature costing less than 62p. If you guys pledge enough to push us to the first stretchgoal we can manufacturer the additional command sprues. This will automatically add one command sprue of a faction of your choice for every 24 plastic figures already purchased. These are added for free but additional sprues maybe purchased from the addon store. This brings the price per model down to 57p!

We have decided not to add an EB on this pledge as the savings are there for all to see and we want it accessible for everyone!

Every stratchgoal will add some models free to every pledge of Starter Set and above and will add additional models to the addon store to be purchased.

So the hours and days are counting down to the Kickstarter and I have never, ever been so busy!!

Anyways.... I do have another snap shot of the BUGBEAR IRONSHIELD to show you. I should also have the first proper castings of several of the models and some painted examples by next week!

I loved the closeup of the head- I'm not as sold on the horns (which are just roughed in I think above) or the shoulder pads, though. I know it's WIP so I'll wait to see more, though!

They should really stop using their armor as pinadas between battles.

Looks really good. And I like the worn looking armor. And the horns!

its obviously just a work in progress at the moment but it is going to be big. I think the most amazing thing about this model is the shield. It is enormous!!

I think the tactic of "place this in doorway and relax" will be a winner.

Next week I should have some painted examples for you guys and then its just finishing off the Kickstarter graphics and video. I never realised quite how busy I would be. 8 hours at work, 6 hours in the study...every night!!!

A glutton for punishment... but I cant wait for the KS to begin!!! Its so much fun!!

Kaine, I've said it before, but . . .

If this KS campaign goes down a storm, and one year from now you deliver the product and all your backers are blown away, and Minion miniatures becomes a force in the hobby market . . .

I.e., if all of your dreams come true . . .

You simply must follow up with a Sci-Fi KS, preferably with the same concept and 3-D artists, definitely done to the same standard.

That's the plan!

Kaine Larson wrote:
That's the plan!

I love the bug bear, roughly how much will it be

The_Minsk wrote:
I love the bug bear, roughly how much will it be

I think he's quoted as £18 on the last page

I believe he is £18. I'm out and about at present so can't check. The flesh golem is definitely £18. They are all very large figures. I can't wait for Ironshield. We played a game with one of them last night. Not a pretty sight after he mashed a ton of zombies...

A little more of the Bugbear Ironshield being revealed!! We should have it finished within a few days!!



Please note this is still a WIP but I like to share these things as we go along!

This model is going to be available from the get go in the addon store for £18. He will be roughly 65mm high with an enormous shield as well.

The original artwork is below:

Are the horns part of his actual body, his helmet, or part of the armor?

I like large monsters in big bulky armor, so I've definitely got my eyes on getting one of those!

Yeah...its a bit hard to see on the render. If you look on the artwork it is part of the armour.

The detail is looking very good and chunky so it should scale well into miniature form. My compliments to the 3d artist. Not many can seem to get the drift.

Horns as part of the armor sounds better. I like them fine in the art; maybe final posing / adjusting will help them look like that.

Looks like there needs to be more visual space between the horns and the armor and have them arch over the head a bit more to make it look more like the concept.

I like them as they are, but I would also like them as shown in the concept art.

Maybe the back plate could rise up a bit more.. I see what you mean.

So what is a bugbear, exactly? What sets them apart from Ogres or Trolls?

You'd better be prepared to field questions like this, Kaine. Otherwise gamers will be thrown into a state of categorical confusion, throw up their hands in lexical despair, and leave your beautiful minis on the shelves.

I do like the look of this model, really looking nice. im interested to see what the hobgoblins will look like too

The Bugbear - A rather large and cunning member of the Goblin-kind race. They lack the intelligence to become leaders in their own right and if left to their own devices tend stay in small family groups deep in the caverns of the Underdeep. However, Goblins and Hobgoblins use their huge strength to their advantage and bribe them with promises of food, grog or loot in exchange for their awesome combat prowess. They do occasionally grab a nearby goblin as a snack but that is usually seen as fair and reasonable price for their services. They are different from trolls in that trolls have no species link at all to Goblins. Trolls are also more stupid and tend to be able to regrow body parts and heal wounds, something bugbears are unable to do. Ogres tend to be a Sunsider race, linked more to the races of men than Goblins. However their approximate size in strength is comparable.

In reality Bugbears make excellent proxies for both trolls and ogres in other games, particularly if you want your trolls to have a look that fits in with that of the rest of your force. We also plan to do trolls of various types etc to act as wandering monsters and allied creatures. The Underdeep rules allow you to purchase several of the non aligned Underdeep races to to fight for you. This is usually done by either paying a Gold coin cost or, in the case of more magical beasts, by binding them to your force with magic.

Nice! I particularly like the "goblin snack" bit. The concept is very cool - more than a piece of personal armor, the Ironshield seems to act as a portable fortification.

Allied creatures make immediate sense, but the idea of including "wandering monsters" in a skirmish game is intriguing, too. Would those be A.I.-controlled, unallied beasties thrown into the mix as battlefield hazards?

Oh yes. But these are scenario dependent.


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Also our graphics guru Danny has finished the map for the rule book and for the promo video to be released with the Kickstarter.



It shows the world on the Sunside. There will be a corresponding map for the Underdeep too but this map plays a vital part in telling the story n the promo video.

Cool map! And I see a Bugbear Brute on the pre-fund page... very cool. I might be in for one of each bugbear, if I can swing it.

http://prefundia.com/projects/view/minion-miniatures-30mm-plastic-fantasy-miniatures-goblins-and-zombies/2241/

Are you still planning to go live by mid-September? Just curious for planning purposes, no rush.

Launch will be Sept 8th!!

Well that's perfect, thanks

Awesome looking map looking forward to the 8th now, how many days are you looking to run for?

It will run for 30 days...

The Bugbear Ironshield is finished!! Yay!

This links to our Facebook page where you can see the 360 degree video of the model. Please view in HD by selecting the option on the bottom right of the pic!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=269992103191749&l=663837893380585012

Or you can see the snap shot below...

Fantastic! I love the model. He looks downright tough.

Nice! That sure is a bugbear like none before

Looks stunning! Can't wait to get one or three.

There will be a variant head, shield and weapon arm too eventually. Where people order more than one we will give as much variation as we can.

Looks utterly badass!

Kaine Larson wrote:
The Bugbear Ironshield is finished!! Yay!

This links to our Facebook page where you can see the 360 degree video of the model. Please view in HD by selecting the option on the bottom right of the pic!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=269992103191749&l=663837893380585012

Or you can see the snap shot below...

Looks incredible! Clicking the "HD" on the bottom right of the video on the facebook page really helps, too. Although the 360 makes him look a bit fatty

I'll definitely be in for one. What size base is he on in the video, and what did his height end up being?

He is approximately 65mm in height. He will also be a resin piece and he will be on a 50mm round lipped base.

Awesome! And if we order two, we'll get the alternate head/shield/weapon on the second? That is likely going to get me in for a pair of them

Yep! That's correct. We want to allow a bit of interchangability. Once the company grows we plan to add at least one additional variant to each of our larger monsters!

Hi Kaine, how about a rendered group shot so we can see them all scaled against one another

Thats an awfully good idea! I'll see what I can come up with.

I think you were wise to put this bugbear figure up front in your campaign, Kaine. It's the kind of big ticket showpiece that not only sells the model, but also becomes emblematic of the whole line and helps sell the project.

I can see myself getting the horde level of goblins and using them as large units of Hobgoblins in my Chaos Dwarf army.

That would be awesome! We will have hobgoblins too but in metal only.

I have had people tell me they are going to use them as goblins, night goblins, hobgoblins... One friend of mine is even using them as imps for a demon army he is assembling.

The main thing about he range is versatility and I really can't wait to see what people will come up with.

Kaine Larson wrote:
He is approximately 65mm in height. He will also be a resin piece and he will be on a 50mm round lipped base.

Jeebus! He's a big lad!

Those goblins and such a damn ugly and all, which is fantastic, but there's been a distinct lack of dead things showing up in this thread.

That bugbear is infreakingcredible

Just wanted to show you the first of the resin castings of the Goblin Skulk.

This guy is the KS Exclusive miniature available to everyone who pledges at the Skulk pledge and above.

I am just finishing painting one up and I will get this on the Forum tomorrow. Incidentally we are having a competition on Facebook for the painted version of the model. The painted model will be on Facebook tomorrow. All of you who share the painted mini post will be entered into the draw to win the painted Skulk. The results will be on our Facebook page on Sunday at 1pm.

Our FB page is:https://www.facebook.com/minionminiatures



Riven Skull I just wanted to reassure you that this KS will be an equal split of living and dead! The Goblins and the Zombie Abominations will be available at the outset and just to remind you of the Undead stuff available please se the following pics!







We should also have a full colour Zombie Abomination artwork piece by the end of the week for the KS launch.

What's the start date on this one?

The 8th September. Probably 12pm Monday depending on KS approval.

Thanks!

Also, will the Lizardmen goal be something near the start or are we looking a bit further out for them?

I am quite interested in the Swarm level (if it still exists?), but only if the Lizards are in. Goblins for me, Lizards for the missus.

Oh and I'm stoked to hear that a Deep One/Mythos faction is planned!

Lizards are a fair way up the chain and will only fund if it goes really well. If every thing funds and they dont then they will be the first on the list for our next Kickstarter along with Orcs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I may have given out some duff information on pricing for the Bugbear Ironshield. I had been giving out pricing for the Flesh Golem which is significantly smaller. Both the Flesh Golem and the Bugbear Ironshield will be available to buy from the get go from the addon store. The Flesh Golem is priced at £18 and will be a resin model.

The Bugbear Ironshield is significantly larger and will be available for £25.

Some one also asked for a size comparison...

Thanks again!

I hope you keep up this level of interaction post-funding, so many creators get the money then it's silence for weeks on end...

That Bugbear is HUGE!

Kaine Larson wrote:

Riven Skull I just wanted to reassure you that this KS will be an equal split of living and dead! The Goblins and the Zombie Abominations will be available at the outset and just to remind you of the Undead stuff available please se the following pics!

Oh I know and I've seen all of those, and it was slightly tongue in cheek.

I'm just waiting for the kickstarter, and then will be waiting for shipping, then complaining about all the models I then have to paint.

I don't think I realized how big the Bugbear was going to be...


...WOW!

Sign me up NOW!

 Alpharius wrote:
I don't think I realized how big the Bugbear was going to be...


...WOW!

Sign me up NOW!

Yeah the bugbear is a great looking model.

Ach, it looks good but possibly Too big for my use, and of course a bit pricier now.

its tough because i'm interested in this KS, Meirce's, and Rise of the Kage. ugh.

That Bugbear is MASSIVE. Is his head clocking in at 65mm, or is that to the tip of the shield? He will certainly fit in with all my Mierce stuff.

I will own one. One way or the other, I'll have one when all is said and done.

Kaine, I hope you have given some thought to having some sort of post funding pledge manager type deal. Preferrably one that can just funnel all of my paypal funds directly into it. Especially if your giant lizardmen (deathscales?) can match that Bugbear!

I will have a pledge manager sorted by the end of the KS. I am also going to have a weekly/fortnightly email update throughout the production process. One thing I can assure people of is that I will not go quiet. The process will be as interactive as possible. When I release the rules on Minday they will be for beta testing. The idea is that those of you who want to play the game will help us play test them to get them perfect before we make the rulebook. Although the lead time on the plastics is fairly long we will try and fulfil the resins and metal figures for those of you that have only these in your pledge a bit faster.

Renedra have agreed (in fact they suggested) that we go back to the factory and take photos of all the different stages of manufacture so you can see they how everything works and what stage the minis are at.

We are looking forward to this KS and thank you all for your interest.

Wowzers! The Bugbear is massive! You sure you want to make the dude that big? He looks to be about the size of a giant? I was expecting him to be more Troll or Ogre sized.

In any case, fantastic work mate!

The pic is a little misleading actually as the display base for the Bugbear is bigger than the others. He is about 65mm tall. Bugbear Inronshields are the biggest of their kind, freakish examples that are coerced into taking on the role of the Ironshield. Basically, although they have some formidable attack powers their main focus is always defending. They are designed to be used to block cavern or dungeon bottlenecks.

The normal Bugbear brute is about the size of the Flesh Golem, so Bugbears are not all so huge. Just the Ironshields.

They are actually about the size of a LOTR troll from GW.