Just curious, Kaine, but why bugbears? They're a bit off the beaten Goblinoid path. I think the average KS campaign / established wargame mini company would have used trolls or ogres to achieve the same purpose and skipped bugbears entirely.
I have nothing against them, mind; it's always cool to see something a bit obscure get elevated to greatness. Just wondering where the inspiration came from.
It came from years of roleplaying really, they are still usable as proxies for the other races and people can use them as they wish. I have always been very fond of Bugbears in my roleplaying days and thought they needed a bit of an overhaul!
Trolls, Ogres and the like will be coming further down the line I can assure you!
Kaine Larson wrote: It came from years of roleplaying really, they are still usable as proxies for the other races and people can use them as they wish. I have always been very fond of Bugbears in my roleplaying days and thought they needed a bit of an overhaul!
Trolls, Ogres and the like will be coming further down the line I can assure you!
Interesting. I guess it's like my love of Mi-Go, which are hardly the most famous of Lovecraft's creations. (It's my patriotic duty to like them, as they're the only Lovecraft race whose base of operations is in Vermont.)
Anyhow, I find your take on the bugbear much more interesting than just recapitulating Ogre / Troll types, and you're correct, it'd be easy to proxy it as either of them anyway. I always admire it when a mini company has the hutzpah to make things not commonly found on the market already, or to do more common things significantly differently. Honestly, if you hadn't pursued such an original goblin design, I wouldn't be paying attention to this. (Of course, that's also because your Goblin heads would be easy to slot into a sci-fi setting, too. Probably a side benefit you never considered.)
Again, just out of curiousity, how long has all of this been dancing around in your head? You've mentioned how carefully you've laid the ground to work with Renedra and get the miniature renders right for polystyrene casting, but when I asked you to define "bugbear" earlier, you fired back a thorough response in no time flat, which suggests that you've put plenty of thought into your gameworld's backstory as well. (Or if not, perhaps you've just played too much D&D over the years.)
I think a little of column A and a little of column B. Definitely too much fantasy roleplaying!
The world has been a roleplay setting for about 15 years. The Underdeep idea came about when we were trying to think of something different that would stick out form the crowd. We have been working on the project for around 9 months now so lot of groundwork, lots of meetings and lots of travelling to get this right!
We are having some slight delays because of video formatting and approval from KS.
We will start ASAP.
Thanks for your kind words and support!
I have not been able to copy the URL for the new colour faction picture for the Zombie Abominations as I'm on my I phone. I managed to post a link to my Facebook page.
Maybe announcing the day of the KS without having finished with your video and getting approval was not a good move...I remember creators usually have to wait some days before approval, I thought you had already done that before proceeding in your announcement? My God, I'd be really pissed if I were you for having missed that! Now you risk not getting it today and so many people waiting, doesn't look good, hope you haven't missed anything else and get lucky so the approval comes in asap and finaly get this moving
If I were in your place I'd try to fix this by being on my computer however as much as possible and not on my smart phone on the day it launches, you've spent some money and so much time on this, why lose it on the last stretch? Also, have you considered finding more people to help you out during this KS? If I got this correctly you are alone in this, great job till now but may not be enough, people who do not know you want to see comitment from the project creator. Reaching out for help, it's not something bad, is it?
Just a thought...
I've seen this happen a few times. KS launch delayed because the creator left approval until the last minute. It is my understanding that once you get approval it's then up to you when to launch, correct? So why not submit for approval at least 72 hours before you plan to start?
I've never run a KS so I may be missing something...
I know that this is delayed but what time in what timezone was this KS scheduled to launch? Is there an eta on the delays? Are we looking at hours or days?
It's definitely a big oversight on my part something I had read about previously. Unfortunately I have been so busy I made a mistake and did not take it into consideration.
I apologise to those who are waiting but the launch will be forthcoming!
Sorry about the silence guys. Truly hellish last couple of days. Basically don't use Google Chrome to launch a kickstarter!!
Video upload issues followed by clicking on the review button followed by the removal of my own eyes via spoon followed by many other horrible events that I wish had not happened when they did!!!
Any way... its seems as if the project is ready to go. I just have to click the launch button (I swear if something go's wrong when I hit that button I may go on some kind of rampage!)
If that's all people have to 'complain' about, don't worry about it too much!
A little anticipation probably never killed anyone!
This is a Dakka kickstarter thread, where shamefully negative people will pounce at the opportunity to call back to this error as an omen whenever there's a manufacturing delay or shipping delay.
I'm sure he means Friday and not Monday. Everyone knows now it's for Friday, messing the launch date again would cause serious frustration, I mean people have been waiting for this for months.
Editing, I don't know about the facebook but even the banner above say 12th of September 9pm gmt... Let's get this rolling!
I'm so sorry guys... I got everything sorted yesterday but I thought I should leave it a couple days for everyone to get ready! I regret that now as my nails have gone and I have started chewing my fingers now! So stressful
For those of you who have not heard of us before, Minion Miniatures is a new company looking to produce a range of multi part plastic miniatures with others made of high quality resin and white metal.
Our initial offering with this Kickstarter are the Goblin and Zombie Gravewalker multi part plastic miniature sprues.
Please visit our Kickstarter page for more details.
Joined up! Ah I want just want this to see funding as fast as possible! Such cool minis and such a unique look, I am also in the lizardkin boat, want to see those guys unlocked.
Looked through the various add-ons. The renders for the big guys look good, but they're expensive. No way I'd be able to add on for them during the campaign, so perhaps during a PM phase, but even then, they're very expensive for an untried and untested company. Pledging for renders, etc.
But 50 pounds for an artbook? That's excessive. For that price it'd want to be better than art books I've gotten from Blizzard, GW, Sideshow, etc. And let's be bluntly honest - it won't be.
Good luck KAINE! thanks for pledging in my campaing, it was my first as well.. is quite stressing even at small numbers.
I wish you the best, and if you dont make it hits time you will the next of course, you offer a potential good product, and a diffrent point of view in the fantasy theme
Almost 10% funded in half a day! Hopefully word gets out, although I agree, the early bird quantities are quite high, thus not making them appear as limited / attractive.
There will be a lot of 'wait and see' here because of that, which may mean it doesn't fund quickly, which leads to people not backing it because they're waiting and seeing, etc.
I'm in for the 'add-ons' though - the big monsters are the most appealing to me.
Hopefully this one can shoot up because I'm all Highlord-ing it up here, hoping for Lizardmen!
I'm undecided at the moment if I want to piggyback Tamburlaine's pledge or do my own small one. Thankfully (for me) I don't need a ton of figures, so I can stay relatively low on this one. But one way or another, I will be backing this. I need my armored zombies.
Sent through a message to Kaine/Richard:
You should add the "regular" Starter Set and Swarm pledge levels to the sidebar - with just the word "Early Bird" there, people have no context on how much money they might be saving with the EBs, so it's just another pledge level, rather than an opportunity to save money. Response was a thank you and that he'll look into it tomorrow..
Hi Azazelx, I'm going to add these in this morning. When I originally showed people the set up for the KS I got so much conflicting advice that I didn't end up releasing an EB Starter along with a normal starter. It seems a couple of things are stopping people from pledging, the postage situation, on which KS have not yet come back to me and the initial target. It is a very ambitious project but I thought I had covered my bases. Let's give it some more time and we can consider our options...
I would have backed it if it was still for a mixed warband of various greenskins, like the plan originally was for. I don't really have any interest in larger formations of just goblins., especially when Mantic already has that in their store. :(
^ You can still get that, just pick the £24 pledge level to get yourself a warband. You can mix and match any sprues you like, undead or goblins. Mantic goblins suck, I have 40 that I tried to give away once, but got turned down. If you buy them instead, you *will* regret the decision, the casting is mushy, detail is worse than green army men.
I'm a little late going into this one and funds only allow for me to go for the EB starter, but at least I'm in.
Quite optimistic about this one at least being funded, 10% there already is good going.
We are seriously going to have to promote the feth out of this one though, it isn't going to be one where you can sit back, watch and it just gets funded, going to need to convince others to get in on it too or it won't fund. I will be mentioning this to everyone in my gaming group and going nuts on facebook linking to it.
Everyone grab a linked image for your sig! I made one below that you can use, and there's also the one Kaine has. High-quality hard plastic at low prices is worth supporting.
If it fails, expect another 70 PVC/restic Kickstarters in 2015 as the industry sees the failure of this (and that really nice fantasy empire KS earlier this year) and assumes there is no market for hard plastic wargame minis anymore.
I am trying to push this as much as I can. Seems to be a lot of fence sitting going on and I am trying my best to help people see the benefit of pledging for the project!
scarletsquig wrote: Mantic goblins suck, I have 40 that I tried to give away once, but got turned down. If you buy them instead, you *will* regret the decision, the casting is mushy, detail is worse than green army men.
I'm a little late going into this one and funds only allow for me to go for the EB starter, but at least I'm in.
I thought you were going in on this for about $500? You were saving and everything?
Anyway, Mantic Goblins fit the GW aesthetic, as they're a variant of the ol' GW style. These ones, nice as they are - do not. All they really have in common are a short stature and the name "goblin" strapped to them. They're close enough to the Moria Goblin look from Fellowship for me, but otherwise I'd only use them as something else (maybe with goblin stats in KoW, but not actual goblins)
If it fails, expect another 70 PVC/restic Kickstarters in 2015 as the industry sees the failure of this (and that really nice fantasy empire KS earlier this year) and assumes there is no market for hard plastic wargame minis anymore.
The bigger problem is brand-new companies with nothing to show for themselves but renders asking for a ton of money to get started. It's a bloody big risk, and people can see it as such. The figures being a year out (at minimum) doesn't help. (I'd say this was a safe and honest projection, these days I know that despite the best of intentions, it's probably the halfway point of production...
I've argued this before, but this is a situation where the art of a kickstarter can help or hinder.
The number of Early birds should be carefully set to help you get mostly there. Even "lieing" on the goal funding. Lots of companies low ball the target since getting to the funded level increases your visibility on kickstarter itself.
Not every kickstarter can be a runaway success, but keep plugging away at promoting, and talking to the community really helps.
Azazelx wrote: I thought you were going in on this for about $500? You were saving and everything?
Life happens! I'm hoping to go in for more if my DZ and Mars Attacks stuff actually shows up before October, overspent there and will be selling the excess.
The bigger problem is brand-new companies with nothing to show for themselves but renders asking for a ton of money to get started. It's a bloody big risk, and people can see it as such. The figures being a year out (at minimum) doesn't help. (I'd say this was a safe and honest projection, these days I know that despite the best of intentions, it's probably the halfway point of production...
I'm hoping the lead-time and slow build up of this one makes it a success. It could end up being a very close thing.
Here's the code for my image sig if anyone wants it:
scarletsquig wrote: ^ You can still get that, just pick the £24 pledge level to get yourself a warband. You can mix and match any sprues you like, undead or goblins.
I have no interest in that. THIS is what the project was originally introduced as and that's what I would have been interested in:
Kaine Larson wrote: The initial boxed set will be the goblin-kind boxed set with 12 28mm multipart plastic goblins, 6 hobgoblins and two enormous bugbears (see the pic above). The bugbears will be about 50mm tall.
The project has essentially flatlined at 10%, and I think it would be better to just cancel it ASAP and use the design work that's already been done to make sets of metal minis to go with the original concept. The Mantic approach clearly isn't going anywhere but it would be a shame to see all the work lead to nothing.
I cannot for the life of me figure out whats going on with this KS, its a good product, with clear quality, laid out with solid planning and approval from many sources with a clear timeline and the product itself is interesting. What it is stuck makes no sense. Is not this what a good KS should look like? Does the market really not want high quality hard plastic but instead more cheap PVC that ruins peoples hands? I just do not get it.
This one is VERY well prepared and deserves to do better, but...
My primary reason for not pledging (besides not being able to afford it right now) is that this was promoted as a skirmish game, but the rewards aren't conducive to that.
There's plenty of reasons people could want hordes of goblin and zombie miniatures, but if you want to sell this as a skirmish game then less volume, more variety would work better I think.
Also,a proper starter set. The set here really isn't a starter set, it's just another level of "x sprues of your choice".
Variety comes with stretch goals, sure, but with such a high funding goal before we even start unlocking that variety I don't see it coming anytime soon.
I suppose that is true but there have been other KS with the same (or less) variety do just fine. However I can see the large up-front cost of the thing is what is causing people to hesitate. A real shame, and I hope something can get it moving again.
Being my first kickstarter I think I have found myself caught between two markets, proxies for games like Warhammer and KOW and my own game. The other issue is hiding the range as stretch goals. I am going to have to rethink this and the current idea is to focus on my own rules and release more minis at launch. I have tried to listen to too much advice that perhaps made me try to cover too many bases. If I have to I will relaunch in a different format, focusing on the Skirmish game primarily with some larger unit deals too. I may also drop the plastic models and make them a stretch goal. This means I can have a lower initial goal with metal/resin figures that if well supported good go on to be made in plastic. I couldn't have worked harder on this project and I have been disappointed with the KS so far but I will give it some more time and see what happens. Primarily the learning curve has been worth it. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger and Minion Miniatures will be stronger than ever!
Yeah, I mean the design work has been really good and it shouldn't be too much work to get a more limited project up and running so that you can start to make back some of those expenses. And then plastics can be a goal a bit further down the line.
Being my first kickstarter I think I have found myself caught between two markets, proxies for games like Warhammer and KOW and my own game. The other issue is hiding the range as stretch goals. I am going to have to rethink this and the current idea is to focus on my own rules and release more minis at launch. I have tried to listen to too much advice that perhaps made me try to cover too many bases. If I have to I will relaunch in a different format, focusing on the Skirmish game primarily with some larger unit deals too. I may also drop the plastic models and make them a stretch goal. This means I can have a lower initial goal with metal/resin figures that if well supported good go on to be made in plastic. I couldn't have worked harder on this project and I have been disappointed with the KS so far but I will give it some more time and see what happens. Primarily the learning curve has been worth it. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger and Minion Miniatures will be stronger than ever!
I think if you relaunched with a smaller range of metal/resin (not pvc) figures, have stretch goals to fill out the ranks with more elite units such as the bugbear and zombie hulk then you'll fund in no time.
Many people look at the 80k goal and just don't believe you'll fund unfortunately they then won't bother to pledge :( have a look at the failed Empire ks for plastic fantasy humans as an example of a great looking product with a high stretch goal that stalled early and didn't recover.
I'd definitely check out the Anvil industry Afterlife ks for how to launch a range with almost a pre kickstarter kickstarter.
I'm up for just about whatever you guys want to do with it. A shame the masses are so undecided.
I pledged for an EB knowing full well that I don't even need that many goblins, because you've presented a sound business plan and I like to see new material come to market.
If you wanted to try a smaller amount of resins, I'd be cool with that.
To be honest, I thought the idea of the warband with all the various races on sprues was a neat idea. I'd love to see a warband starter set of goblins with a hobgoblin or two, and a bugbear to round things out.
To be honest, I thought the idea of the warband with all the various races on sprues was a neat idea. I'd love to see a warband starter set of goblins with a hobgoblin or two, and a bugbear to round things out.
To be fair thats what originally interested me in the project, that and the skirmish game rules. Mind you I'd still want a bucket load of those zombies in plastic
I have had messages from people saying they are not pledging until they can see that its heading in the right direction! I think if we have a mini surge it might attract a few others to pledge as well.
I fear that those not committed to pledge until this is 'headed in the right direction' are also those who would pull out at the least sign of something shinier
I'm disappointed this is not doing better, but fiddling with it too much at this stage may do more harm than good (a fair number will be in for multipart plastic, rather than resin/metal)
If you look at older KS projects they built a lot more slowly so I think there is still a decent chance this will fund as long as you keep building backers and/or cash each day,
Only if there is a period when folk start pulling out would I think of major changes/cancelation especially as you've invested considerable time and effort (and I suspect cash) in giving out the plastic/multipart message for this KS
Kaine Larson wrote: I have had messages from people saying they are not pledging until they can see that its heading in the right direction! I think if we have a mini surge it might attract a few others to pledge as well.
I think one of the tough things is what's being offered as the pledges. Not many people really need to have more than 70-100 on the miniatures, which cuts into the initial pledge potential. Then the 2 current buying add-ons are rather costly for models that are in KS.
It may be pertinent to produce a number of the larger models in a resin material to set up company/model representation and to establish good reputation. If it is cheaper, it may even allow for a wider range of models such as lizards to garner more interest, and then at a later date return to plastics.
I hope it succeeds (I put in for the KS figure, as I think it's great), but I do feel 80k is a huge ask. We'll see. I do hope that even if it doesn't do the amount some of the figures will be released, as they are great.
I'm in for way more than I can realistically afford right now - not to mention more than I'd sensibly buy at retail. If the project funds, I'd be able to lower my pledge, but I do agree that the project might be a lot better off as a range of resin and metal figures to get the company up and running. Once you're an actual company with products at retail, I think, cautious people would be much more likely to dip their toes in for a few figures or a warband.
It's a shame to see that Kickstarter has now entered this really weird state of affairs where people aren't interested in pledging unless the project has already funded or is clearly going to fund.
Really misses the entire point of what the site is supposed to be.
I have high hopes for this one still, a slow/steady crawl to £50k is likely followed by a final surge in the last few days to fund it.
I'm interested in some of the other races that have been teased in the artwork, such as the forthcoming Lizardfolk, but Goblins and Zombies have been done to death and I have made plenty of these staple bad guys over the course of my hobby so no interest in pledging solely for them, especially in large amounts that this kickstarter excels at.
The add on models like Bugbears are different and I'm intrigued especially as they're resin, however my strange resin monster love can currently be scratched by Mierce kickstarter.
scarletsquig wrote: It's a shame to see that Kickstarter has now entered this really weird state of affairs where people aren't interested in pledging unless the project has already funded or is clearly going to fund.
Really misses the entire point of what the site is supposed to be.
That's what happens when the amount needed to fund is monumentally huge. £80,000 is US$130,000. A pretty massive amount for a startup that no-one has ever heard of before with a track record of producing exactly zero. Let's not forget Gates of Antares, which also had a huge goal - over three times this one, yes, but also little to show for it, besides a creative team that pretty much created the reason this site exists (Priestly+Naismith) - so a pretty significant track record there.
Let's not get into the whole "what kickstarter is for" thing again. That whole line of discussion is worse than tiresome at this stage. This project is a pretty big stretch, regardless of how much you or I or anyone else want some nice looking plastic zombies and goblins.
scarletsquig wrote: I have high hopes for this one still, a slow/steady crawl to £50k is likely followed by a final surge in the last few days to fund it.
Four backers yesterday. Five the day before. Average for the four days after the initial one is a little over £600.
Currently it's on a slow/steady crawl to £25k.
Quite frankly, £25k isn't bad if you want to put out some nice-looking metal or resin gobbos and zombies.
It has been slow and I think a lot of the problems could have been solved from the start if I had a bit more Kickstarter experience. This has been an awesome learning curve and we are already discussing re release if the project doesn't fund. I have a couple of additional marketing commitments that have to go through as they are paid for and I will see how they go before there is any talk of cancelling. The plan will be to get some more renders completed, spend more time on the rules and to come back with a low target goal... maybe 5-8k with miniatures in metal and resin and lots of accessible stetchgoals. I have discovered that despite thinking the project had good coverage, it really had not. When I launched the KS the rest of the range was hidden away as stetchgoals and nobody knew about them. Those that have seen the whole project love it. Those who have not are less enthusiastic. Agai, this is all information that comes with experience. I will get it right the next time... if it comes to that.
We will still have the plastic figures available but only as a top end stretchgoal as most people seem to find the aesthetic great but they are not so concerned about the plastics. I am sure this will divide our pledgers but we have spent too much time and money, not to mention love and care on this range and we want to help it to fund. If that means no plastics for the short term, it means no plastics. However, plastic miniatures is something we are aiming for!
I have been pleased by the response from so many people and the fact that no one has yet called me an idiot, or stupid for doing what I have done. Almost all the feedback has been hugely positive and I am grateful for that. Lets see what happens over the next few week or two and maybe we can attract some more interest.
It is a shame this didn't take off like it honestly should have done given the quality of the product so far, but it's good to see you haven't been deterred.
I think if this does fall through then another campaign focusing on metal/resin minis for Underkeep would still do well. The success of games like Infinity and early Malifaux prove that people will be happy with non-plastic minis for a skirmish game, especially if they're good quality. Build up with cheaper to produce stuff and lower/frequent Stretch Goals and you'll likely find you get closer to the higher goals faster, and with any luck will have enough to get the game off the ground even without plastic.
It seems like you listened to too much advice and tried to please everyone, but ended up not completely pleasing anyone. I wish you luck with the eventual relaunch, i have to say that the concept for the game is very intriguing!
The plan will probably be to have a couple of single figure pledges and then have a faction pledge which for the Goblins would be something like 6 Goblins, Bugbear Ironshield, Goblin Skulk and a Goblin Shaman and for the Zombies it will be a Necromancer, 6 Zombie Gravewalkers, Flesh Golem and probably a Wight Lord. There would be larger pledges too including a discounted starter set with a load of dice and that thrown in too.
At the end of the day the aesthetics and details of the models are fantastic, and even with this snag in the funding, we want this company and you to succeed with eventually releasing them, because damn those mini's are nice.
I think that trying to start with plastics was tough. The upfront cost is high, and the fact that you're not an already established company probably is what worked to the project detriment.
Personally, I would love to see the troops and smaller, thinner models end up being plastic. As a Necron player, the thin parts such as ankles and arms on my resin (not finecast ) characters are rather fragile, as are several of the parts of the DKoK mini's a friend of mine has, and drops from the table have broken pieces. The plastic limbs of my other necrons have a much better survival rate from drops, and I've really come to prefer plastic for thinner models.
That's what had initially caught my eye, was the nicely detailed plastic mini's, and in particular the troops. I really liked the fact that the smaller, thinner pieces would have a bit more strength to the resin counterparts.
However, with larger models, such as the bugbears, the bigger zombies, and the potential lizard folk, the thinker resin parts have much more strength, and plastic isn't as important (in my opinion, ymmv). As I said before, perhaps doing several of the larger miniatures in resin, and using those as a way to jumpstart the company's reputation and funds. Especially since several of the miniatures aren't really produced anywhere else.
Kaine Larson wrote: The plan will probably be to have a couple of single figure pledges and then have a faction pledge which for the Goblins would be something like 6 Goblins, Bugbear Ironshield, Goblin Skulk and a Goblin Shaman and for the Zombies it will be a Necromancer, 6 Zombie Gravewalkers, Flesh Golem and probably a Wight Lord. There would be larger pledges too including a discounted starter set with a load of dice and that thrown in too.
Would that be better?
I would love to get the goblin bunch. it would suit me far better than getting lots of goblin or zombies.
I think you'd have been better off sticking with the goblins to start with. Less sprues = lower funding goal.
Then you can focus add ons and stretch goals for fleshing out a goblin army with resin/metal models.
You could do the same for the undead too. But I think there'd be more demand for affordable plastic goblins, since others make some decent undead already.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Heck, I bet you could run a small kickstarter for just that bugbear and you'd have that sucker funded in no time at all.
+1. A campaign for some of the big beasts shown here would probably do very well indeed. Maybe come back to the plastic production and multipart sprues at a later date?
Being realistic, I think drawing large funding for plastics is better off done once Minion has established themselves as a company that can and does produce items with a track record of successful production (even if it's entirely resin or metal). That would also allow the game itself to get some traction which would then (hopefully) get more interest in the plastics.
I'd also look at some (official) way of scaling-up your game. While I'm not one who ties figures to rules, that's clearly a big thing for many people, so if you design your game in a SAGA-ish way but with the ability to scale up to even 100 models a side (including the bugbears and leaders and such - not 50 goblins + 2 bugbears) then it could increase demand for the larger pledges, which in turn would add more funds.
Also, you might want to consider a lower finding target with just the undead or the goblins to start with, and the second race being a stretch goal - and if it's not hit, fine - just produce one sprue at a time.
Thank you so much for putting faith in Minion Miniatures and helping us raise over £10k for this Kickstarter. The truth is, we may have bitten off more than we could chew in regard to the amount needed to fund and I realise, as a new start company, this was extremely ambitious. However, I have learned so much over the last week and I have been thoroughly amazed at the support and constructive comments made by you all.
I think the best thing for us to do as a company is launch a much smaller Kickstarter to launch the brand. I think we have a unique take on the fantasy genre and I would like to offer a few of our models to you guys in the short term before coming back with a bigger Kickstarter in the new year. Our next Kickstarter is going to be for our two fully rendered big beasties; the Flesh Golem and the Bugbear Ironshield. We are also going to add the Goblin Skulk into the mix as well.
The stretch goals will quite simply be addons for both models, different head choices, different, weapon choices or shield choices for the Ironshield. The funding goal will likely be around the £2k mark with stretch goals being implemented every £500-£1000. This will enable us to fund some of the additional renders and models for the full Underdeep Kickstarter in February 2015.
The other good news is the turnaround time. We would anticipate no more than a three month wait for the models which will show you that we mean business and that we can delivery a quality product on time! So don't fret! Minion Miniatures will be back very soon!
Whats more I would like all of you who think you will participate in our next KS to send me your details as you guys will be privileged owners of a unique head for the Bugbear Ironshield and the Flesh Golem! So don't cancel your pledge just yet as I would like to get your details before I close this Kickstarter. We are likely to relaunch the Kickstarter within a couple of weeks so please keep your eyes peeled. We will be posting on Facebook and advertising this new campaign. Once again, thank you for your support. It means a lot to us that you have faith in our creations and I am sure we will be seeing you again soon!"
So the new Kickstarter will start in a couple of week. Please keep an eye out for it. We will use all the funds to finance the return of Underdeep in the early new year of 2015.
Thanks for all your help and support guys and I will continue to post updates on our products!
I agree! Fulfilling that small campaign quickly will put you in much better footing for a bigger one next year. For that future one, taking a page from other campaigns, start with a minimum goal for one sprue, tease the other things you'd like to add, and just include them as stretch goals.
I was only in for a pound here but should have the funds for a bugbear with the relaunch in a few weeks. So, this works out well for me, and I'm excited to see you deliver on these initial resin models and build the brand!
Thanks guys... I will post some more news soon. But the likely set up for the new KS will be as follow. Your views would be very much appreciated.
TARGET: £2000
Thank You £1
Goblin Skulk in Resin £8
Brute (either the Flesh Golem or Ironshield) £18.
Double Trouble (Two Brutes) £32
Triple Threat (3xBrute) £48
Mega Bundle (4xBrutes) plus all stretch goals FREE. EB x 100 £65.
The Stretchgoals will be a mix of alternative heads, weapons, shoulders and shields (for the Ironshield). ALL MODELS IN HIGH QUALITY RESIN. Stretchgoals will be available every £500-750.
We may even throw the Zombie Hulk in as a stretch goal.
That seems reasonable and I'll be in for a bugbear at least
(make sure the extras you throw in don't end up pushing your costs too high)
and take a careful look at your shipping costs, once you move to resin especially a bubble wrap envelope is not really good enough to protect things in transit so you'll need boxes which always cost more than you think
A few thoughts: If pledging for 2 or 3 of a model, would you vary the heads/shields (not giving extra, just vary)?
I think 100 EBs at a single level may be too much (see backer numbers from current campaign). You can always increase them or add a "second bird" pledge level later.
Very happy to see the Ironshield back at 18 pounds!! I'll definitely be pledging for one, maybe two.
Agreed about not going crazy on stretches- let the campaign do what it's meant to (get your company name out there, raise funds for more development of Underdeep). But that said, a way to get alternate parts at a lower level would be welcome- either by your just varying them on multiples, or offering an add-on pack of parts, whatever makes more financial sense for you.
I agree that an EB with 100 slots isn't much of an EB for this type of project. Might be better to limit it to 40 or so (you can always add another if that one fills up). Something to keep in mind is the casting time for resin can be a quite significant variable. Be sure to leave yourself plenty of time for delivery (lots of projects shoot themselves in the foot in that respect).
I'd be in for a pair of iron shields, maybe a third if we get to enough individualized parts.
Absolutely in for at least a bugbear or two minimum, depending on how closely the wife is checking the bank account.
The 18 pound one will be how tall? I know the more expensive version was going to top out around 65mm. I'm alright with smaller ones more in line with what's readily available, but after having been playing the new Diablo expansion with the Crusader class and their giant shields, I was looking forward to a giant brute lugging around a shield larger than most of his opponents.
Same, Trodax! Except I'm going to mix him in with some chaos dwarfs (either as the ogre that mans the earthshaker cannon, or just as a filler in large units).
RiTides wrote: A few thoughts: If pledging for 2 or 3 of a model, would you vary the heads/shields (not giving extra, just vary)?
See, I think they should be extra and included. It's the standard for this sort of kit. Just look at AoW, RH, even GW. Getting multiple head/arm/weapon options when they're available doesn't usually require buying multiples of the same kit. I'd expect that for retail, so wouldn't expect less from a KS.
With alternative parts included then I could see making full units of Ogres for my KoW force rather than just using them as heroes. Heh, allow me to triple an EB Mega Bundle without dicking about with extra KS accounts and provide the extra arms and heads, and I'm 10% of your funding target by myself.
I think the big EB bundle does actually come with extras, but I don't want or expect the lower pledge levels to, I just want variety . Resin figures do not usually come with extra parts in my experience, although there are exceptions, of course.
Depends. If it's sold as a kit, you're unlikely to have four different SKUs with the same body and slightly different heads. Pieces that are true alternative parts are usually included as options. We're not talking about a bunch of Mierce one-offs with different poses here, we're talking about the same base figure with several head options, etc. The days when random torsos, heads, arms in a blister was standard also came with a huge difference in price to today's stuff.
Even GW's Metal->Finecast Ogre Tyrant comes with two sets of arms, heads, gutplates - allowing quite a decent variation on the kit. And he's £23.50. From GW - the price leader, at full retail price. (IE before discount)
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Ogre-Kingdoms-Tyrant
The figures we're discussing are at KS prices, with potential KS delays and risks, with shipping on top. So yeah, while I'm likely to be getting a larger pledge, I'd be expecting a bit more bang for my buck in terms of equivalence even if I were only ordering 1 or 2.
Sorry I'm a little bit confused Azazelx. What I was planning to do is make an option immediately available on the SG being hit. What this means is that the Ironshield comes with head A, Sheild A and Weapon A. The SG have unlocked Heads B and C, Shields B & C and weapons B & C. This means that if you have pledged for 3 BB's you can choose any combination of the available options to replace the A options on the model. Does sound like a good or a bad idea or are you saying they should be extra for each Bugbear anyway?
They should definitely not be free, Kaine. Leave your margins. Giving us the option to choose is more than enough!
Mierce is a much better comparison than GW (GW is the exception, not the rule, for supplying extra bits). I've paid 15 pounds apiece for many much smaller Mierce models with no alternate parts.
Stretch goals unlocking Options (not extras) to choose from is awesome, and will encourage folks to pledge more if they want all styles!
You can't please every backer, so if there's a suggestion you can't do, just thank them for it and do what you can. As I said, I think unlocking options is plenty already- don't destroy your margin!
Edit: I will say, I'm thinking particularly of the shield here- it's half the model, no way it can be free!! However, for heads it may be easier to just include, depending, since otherwise you have to sort through them. When extra bits are occassionally included, a (single) spare head is the most common I've seen. Totally your call, though!
Kaine Larson wrote: Sorry I'm a little bit confused Azazelx. What I was planning to do is make an option immediately available on the SG being hit. What this means is that the Ironshield comes with head A, Sheild A and Weapon A. The SG have unlocked Heads B and C, Shields B & C and weapons B & C. This means that if you have pledged for 3 BB's you can choose any combination of the available options to replace the A options on the model. Does sound like a good or a bad idea or are you saying they should be extra for each Bugbear anyway?
RT and I disagree on this pretty strongly it seems.
I'd want the extras. I'm someone who chooses my final options for things like that when the figures are in hand - dry fitting the options, seeing how they fit together, etc. Unless you're going to have ten heads and arms as options, I don't really see the issue. I don't want to feth your margins, and while I wish you well and am happy to support your startup business, I'm purchasing a product with the reward as the reason. It's not charity. Basically, in order to pledge, I'd want the extras included. Like you get when buying a GW kit for basically the same price or a creature caster KS for way more, or an AoW etc figure that comes with optional parts. I also find ways to use these extra pieces, so it's not like they go into the bin. Having said that, if a few extra weapons and heads will destroy your margin when kickstarting new models direct to the public (ie selling for more than wholesale), then you've probably got bigger issues already.
Here's the GW Ogre Tyrant kit:
Spoiler:
Even when it came in metal - and still while in resin - it comes with two head options, two sets of arms and weapons, and two gutplates for £23.50 - 5 quid (RRP) more than your kickstarter prices for the Bugbears. And let's face it - that's £21.15 at most places.
GW are also the price leader and generally the chief gougers in the hobby.
RT - Mierce's models are overpriced in general. Or if you prefer, they're at the top of the price band in this hobby. The larger ones are sometimes okay, while the smaller ones are lovely sculpts but overpriced in comparison. Despite Lane's shenanigans, Mierce is now also somewhat established, and you'll notice their prices were a lot more attractive in KS1 when they were attempting to establish themselves. Now, with KS 5 or 7 or whatever it is, they've got their fans, and now that they're established, and have delivered on quite a few models, they've increased the "RRP" prices of the models, they've increased the amount needed for free store shipping from £50 to £80, they've dropped their store discount from 10% to 5%. Minion is an unproven startup with nothing to show but a nice guy talking to us on the internets and some good looking renders. The risk is much higher from a backer's perspective. Comparing Minion to Mierce now is a poor comparison.
AoW and Raging Heroes also both include the optional parts in their figures when they are available. The main exception being that the RH Lammasu head is (now) sold separately, but that's only because of GW's lawyer shenanigans.
Kaine - I wouldn't expect freebie models from your campaign - you're too small and it's not likely to be that sort of campaign, but damn straight that I'd expect extra optional parts (if they were unlocked) for the models. But then as I said, this is assuming it's not a "Free figures" kind of campaign.
Ultimately it's your choice, so I won't begrudge you what you choose to do. Just the same as I make my own choice in terms of what campaigns I back and for how much.
Fair enough, Azazel. I will say Mierce did well with a worse than neutral reputation starting out, based on the strength of their sculpts. I don't think freebies are needed to get folks to back for this bugbear, but if it's a deal breaker for you, that's of course your call.
I'm saying the opposite because I think it's possible your position is the minority, and that most of us will back whether the parts are options that we get to choose from, or included, either way. I will, at least!
Anything's possible, my friend. But aside from my own wants and preferences, I personally believe that extra parts can be the thing that pushes people over the edge to buy a model, and to buy more. It certainly does for me, and RH had a poll on their website with their customers long before the KS took over and the result was that they decided to include the extras in all of their figures going forward.
Result? I've got multiples of many RH models and many more of AoW models. When other companies step up and do the same with quality models, I'll be doing that with their figures as well. Do do put my money where my mouth is, after all.
Makes sense, although letting folks choose alternate parts is a middle ground idea I hadn't seen before. I like it . But there may be another middle ground possible, with some included (say, heads) and some options (huge shields).
If there are multiple versions of the shield, and they're all similar in size to the tower shield shown, perhaps a choice of one shield along with all of the heads and optional weapon arms (which would be much smaller, I imagine) might be a middle ground. That way people pledging for one get all of the (game) options as well as all the heads. I think including all of the heads is a must-do, though.
As long as the big pledge gets it all for each figure.
I think I will do a compromise. I'll probably give away the heads free but ask people to pay a little extra for the big shields, give away one or two additional weapons free and have a couple as paid addons...just cover their cost a bit. Does that sound ok?
Well, the renders you've been showing for the past 3(?) months feature a shield, so you'd want to include at least a shield as standard with every bugbear without argument. - Unless individuals (RT?) specifically request to not have one, since they'd never use it for anything.
I would be careful with letting people choose different options mainly because it will make fulfillment a nightmare and you will have people wanting the arms of option A and the head of option B, etc. A mix of freebie heads maybe even arms, and then paid add on shield, arm, and head packs. Just structure your stretch goals for the freebies in order to take into account the cost of getting freebies not only to current backers, but future backers as well.
I also think a stretch goal for an alternate bugbear pose would be appreciated, as would options for a dual wielder. I would also personally be interested in a less armored option as well. I don't know about the breakdown on the wider web, but at least around here my sense is that the interest in the Bugbear is significantly higher than in the zombie hulk, so you may structure stretch goals to reflect that.
Kaine Larson wrote: You would get the standard shield free if course but additional ones would have to be purchased.
And you'd be retaining this for the big pledges for extra parts? Hm. And does this mean "one of" or "four of" for additional arms, shields and such? Best to work that out beforehand and specify in the campaign.
Mega Bundle (4xBrutes) plus all stretch goals FREE.
I'm fine with pledges being very simple and streamlined, with stretches adding in extra bonus pieces.
Maybe have an option to buy variant piece bundles? Keep all those extra pieces clumped together, or in the case of smaller bits like heads, just cast them together when the time comes?
Whatever helps you keep things nice, neat, and under control.
I liked RBG's last one. Very simple, easy pledge levels, no fething around, pick what's available, done.
What I will do is release the basic make up of the KS over the next few days once I've worked out all the costs. I think only the mega bundle early bird will have all the heads, arms etc free. Shields would be additional cost. Each part will be available from the addon store separately or slightly cheaper in a pack of several items. All previous backers from the last campaign will get a unique, loyalty bonus bugbear head.
Stretchgoal models will be the Zombie Hulk and the Lizardkin Deathscale. Options will be available for both of these too. There will be an addon store link to a PDF showing all the options available at the end if the KS as a kind of pledge manager. This should make it easy.
Kaine, I like the idea of backers of the prior campaign getting a free head (you had advertised this on the prior campaign too, of course, so it makes sense to honor it!). But I would make this head available to all backers, too, just so no one misses out (they would just have to pay to add it on, or select it as the base head for their miniature perhaps, depending on how you set things up).
Excited to see what you do / have done with Deathscale!
Please click on the above link to our new Prefundia page - The Monsters of Underdeep.
This time we are offering our Bugbear Ironshield and Flesh Golem to the world with addition parts to customise your creature through our stretch goals.
Whats more, you can also unlock our awesome Monster stretch goals including the Zombie Hulk, the Lizardkin Deathscale and our new Miniotaur Guardian!
All the miniatures are in high quality resin. The KS itself will launching mid October with a target of only £2000!
Early stretchgoal is the Lizardkin Deathscale. He is kind of like a primitive, primordial lizard ogre. Very different looking, not your typical lizard but the art looks great. He will have lots of additional parts too and can be picked as part of your pledge once unlocked.
Right... the shipping costs we something I got wrong in the last campaign. The basic US/EURO pledge will be the shipping cost generated by KS. For pledgers not in this zone they will have to add a small amount on top. The maximum cost of shipping to the US will be £10. However, as I have not worked out what the postage will be for each pledge yet we will most likely be looking slightly less than this. Perhaps £6 -£8. This will of course be confirmed before the KS begins. There will be only one EB to pledge on to begin with and this will be around £55-£60 Four brute pledge with access to the free stretch goals (not all the SG's are free).
Once this one is gone I will add another set of EB's for the same thing but only slightly more expensive. There will be one more EB pledge level if this one sells out but it will be for a much larger set of Brutes as we should have more monsters available then. It will probably give you access to 8 Brutes plus the free addons.
There will be plenty of additional addons unlocked through the stretchgoals and accessible from the Addon store.
There will be limited edition signed prints of all the Brutes unlocked as well.
The stretchgoals are designed to unlock three of each of the optional extras for each model available or unlocked. For instance, if they are all unlocked the Bugbear Ironshield should have three head options, 3 weapon options and three head options.
There is also a FREE Bugbear Ironshield head for all the pledgers in the last Minion Miniatures campaign. This head will be available to new pledgers from the addon store as well for the cost of £3.
The list of the monsters/Brutes available in this Kickstarter is as follows:
Starting choices of the Bugbear ironshield and Flesh Golem
Stretch Goals:
Lizardkin Deathscale
Zombie Hulk (counts as two Brute choices as its so huge)
Bugbear Brute
Minitaur Guardian
If the campaign goes really well we have some other monsters up our sleeve too! All the proceeds from this KS will be used to supplement the Goblin-Kind KS in February.
Based on those choices I've already decided what my four brutes will be.
Unless you do something mean and nasty like make Deathscale option parts, and then I have to use all my choices for giant reptiles.
I'm quite excited to see how the minotaur turns out though.
I too am looking forward to the new campaign- I have a funny feeling it will fund quite quickly, so I hope you're ready! Try not to succumb to stretch goal overload!
That's what I'm worried about. The SG's start at every £500 for an additional piece. Then they go up to £1000. If it does go well it could swallow up all my SG's straight away. I have SG's all the way up to £20k. I hope that enough. It's funny because the last one didn't fund I'm finding it hard to judge where this one will go although the mailing list is over 100 names already!
The Deathscale will have three head and three arm combo options.
The artwork concepts for it are very nice. It's not like anything out there in my opinon. Just don't expect him to be a large version if a Lizardman. He is more primitive and primordial than that. What I will do is release the SG at a rate that suits the KS once the initial funding is out the way. But there will be tonnes of options.
If everything gets funded quickly I have three other monsters up my sleeve so they may have to make an appearance. One of these guys would be the Troglodyte Behemoth... Another addition to the Lizardkin faction!
I'd be careful about the stretch goals. Better to be conservative and make sure you can produce product quickly and at high quality first. A runaway success can be worse then a failure on kickstarter.
It really depends on your objective for this kickstarter. If you're just trying to build a rep for a later (bigger) kickstarter you are better off going small, delivering on time and with good quality. You might want to talk to Tre Manor about small kickstarters over an omnibus version.
500 GBP per stretch is ( forgive the usage ) a bit of a stretch. You DO need to make a healthy profit on each piece added otherwise you may end up on a slow boat to hell during the fulfillment. Things will go wrong. they ALWAYS do. Plan for that and add 25% and you MIGHT have enough. otherwise you are likely headed for trouble.
And making more money on less figures is infinitely better for you and the future of your business and game than is makign less money on more figures. One thing that I have learned over the past 6 years operating RBG is that oddly having more figures in my catalogue works against my bottom line in strange ways. The mor eexpansive your catalogue ( and more expensive each piece is to stock ) the more diffcult it becomes to maintain stock. Especially if you are outsourcing production......which I WHOLE HEARTEDLY suggest you do for at least the first 2 or 3 years.
There is at least 2 high profile ready examples ( I won;t specifically name them ) of the absolute horror stories of trying to handle in house production with no experience and in trying to produce hordes of minis on narrow margins. Neither method ever works.
Take it slow at first and build your reputation. It will pay off.
Thanks for the advice Tre. The first few stretchgoals are £500 for one small part for customisation. This increases to £1000 and even £2500 for the later stretchgoals. The renders are nearly done for the additional pieces. I have done it this way to make it easier for people to buy multiples of the same model. We are still making a decent profit but I think having a few options for each model will fuel interest.
On the outsourcing side we have outsourced the manufacturing to zealot miniatures and the distribution to a large UK based distributor.
Nice to see you getting advice from Tre here; he certainly knows what he's talking about. I'd also just like to add that I too want you to keep this contained and manageable. I honestly don't think you need to have stretch goals; don't feel too pressured in that direction. If you have planned this thing with a few more monsters to be unlocked up until £20K and it keeps drawing in money towards £30K or £40K, you definitely don't need to feel compelled to keep adding goals. If you just state openly that £20K is the last stretch goal and everything gained beyond that will go towards helping the goblins get off the ground next year, that should be perfectly fine. There are always backers that will whine about no stretch goals, but I'm personally a lot more likely to feel wary and drop out of an "exciting" campaign that just keeps on adding, than a "boring" one that is pretty much a done deal even though it might be two weeks left. As Duskland said, a runaway success on Kickstarter can sooo easily turn into a nightmare.
Hi Trodax, again that good advice. The good thing about the project is that I can scale the stretchgoals accordingly. We have a nice little menagerie of monsters that I now have some concept art for and I don't think we will be adding any more. Past £20k we might add another gribbly at £30k but that would be it. We want to give people options in weapons. Heads etc instead of a whole range of new monsters. But this one will be manageable. I won't go crazy
Sounds great mate! I definitely think Kickstarter is the place where you want to be the boring, number-crunching, slightly paranoid accountant, rather than the care-free, invigorated, salesman, so to speak.
Well, actually, I do believe the latter might be able to scrounge up a slightly higher pledge total, but the former is just so much better for your business long-term.
Honestly I'd rather see a company run out of stretch goals and say "that's it guys, while I'll take more of your money, I have what I need for this project and this is ALL I can get done and out to you on time." You don't have to be the next zombicide. Keeping some of these extra stretch goals for the next KS might be wise as well.
Have a look at some the new pieces for the Bugbear Ironshield available when our new Kickstarter launches! For those that pledged in our last campaign the Loyalty Helm is FREE!
Its been a while since I have posted but here are the additional Flesh Golem parts.
We wanted to add some bits that looked like they had been hacked from other mysterious creatures of the Underdeep, a true chaotic creature where the parts don't seem to fit!
I particularly like the Deathmask and the Monster Arm!
All this stuff is being 3D rendered as we speak and I should have some models to show you in the next few days. Not long till the relaunch!!
I think the weak part of the flesh golem for me is the guts hanging out (on the render) as they don't seem as convincing as some other similar sculpts. But the accessory part pics look varied and cool.
The guts thing does seem to be a point of contest. Some like it loads and some like it less. We discussed guts quite a lot when designing these models and we wanted to give the Zombie Abominations a zombie feel throughout the range. We decided on giving all the creatures a similar look and a link to life that once was. Guts seemed like a good unifying option. It also has an intrinsic link to another range of demons who like guts and pus and buboes too. We thought this link might make the Zombie Abominations appeal to a wider audience.
Oh those are nice options for the flesh golem. I mean I knew I would buy a couple, but jesus those are nice.
As to the guts, the thing about the golem is it needs to be large and more intimidating. Due to the nature of the soft tissues in the lower abdomen, they are one of the first things to decompose and fall out of the body. And due to their relative unimportance to combat, they wouldn't have a place in throwing together a giant walking corpse.
That being said, it is less intimidating to have a giant model with a sucked in/hollow stomach area, so I understand having something there to fill it out.
Having a "gut-plate" may be a nice way of changing it. Personally, I don't feel that having it be a metal plate/armor piece would really fit the aesthetic of throwing a monster together. I feel that either having a "normal sized" rib cage or a bunch of bones sutured together would really look nice.
Just to clarify, I was talking about the aesthetic of the guts/entrails themselves, not the fact that they are there . I totally get that this is a thing for decrepit models in wargaming, and have no problem with the concept of guts hanging out, just thought the detailing on that part could be improved a bit. Although a gut plate is an interesting idea, and could make for a nice conversion to vary up the models a bit if getting multiples of those.
Having a "gut-plate" may be a nice way of changing it. Personally, I don't feel that having it be a metal plate/armor piece would really fit the aesthetic of throwing a monster together. I feel that either having a "normal sized" rib cage or a bunch of bones sutured together would really look nice.
The design of the zombies already features armour bolted onto them. Despite the lack of importance of the guts/innards on a reanimated corpse, you still want to keep the thing together, so a gutplate would aid stability - all the weight not being soley on the spine - so you avoid your golems falling in half.
Azazelx wrote: The design of the zombies already features armour bolted onto them. Despite the lack of importance of the guts/innards on a reanimated corpse, you still want to keep the thing together, so a gutplate would aid stability - all the weight not being soley on the spine - so you avoid your golems falling in half.
I really enjoyed this description . Clearly, the necromancer who re-animated this thing didn't plan ahead!
Having a "gut-plate" may be a nice way of changing it. Personally, I don't feel that having it be a metal plate/armor piece would really fit the aesthetic of throwing a monster together. I feel that either having a "normal sized" rib cage or a bunch of bones sutured together would really look nice.
The design of the zombies already features armour bolted onto them. Despite the lack of importance of the guts/innards on a reanimated corpse, you still want to keep the thing together, so a gutplate would aid stability - all the weight not being soley on the spine - so you avoid your golems falling in half.
This is also true.
I know the zombies all have the bolted on armor look to them, which I love, but I think that for something that has the feel of "Take a bit of this, and a bit of that, a bit of that thing, now throw them together" it would be nice to have something acting as armor to be another thing they sewed in there. Hell it even fits with the non planned necromancer thing
"Oh feth it's falling apart there. gak gak gak what can I grab?!"
I think that a nice fanged maw would make for an interesting fashion statement. Adding an additional weapon in leu of those rather superfluous guts seems like something a necromancer would do. Maybe something squid like to go along with the tentacle arms?
That looks really cool! I will be torn as I like the look / shape of the original shield that can rest on the ground, but I love the decoration of this one. Decisions!
Kaine Larson wrote: I received the first render last night of the Bugbear Ironshield Boneshard Shield.
So here is the first piece of concept art of the new Lizardkin Deathscale, a towering reptilian behemoth for the Lizardkin Faction. This model will be roughly 60mm tall and will come with a full range of additional parts. What do you think?
I was thinking it looked a bit like the Relic design, but now that's been confirmed! They've got painted figures of that monster on display at the local hobby shop, so it's pretty fresh in my head.
Curious as to what kinds of options parts that sucker is going to get!
We have one head that will be lizard head with a huge rhino type horn. There will be a closed mouthed version. The head will have an attached fin/spine ridge. The weapon options are still being discussed.
So, the te ised KS is going to have the Bugbear, the big undead cobbled together things, and this large lizard. Will other factions be represented in this KS? I'd love to see what you do with Gnolls or werewolves.
As for the Deathscale, I'd like to see how he'd look with a frill.
The Deathscale is beautiful. The illustration is the best lizardman concept I've seen in years.
If you'd like players to field more than one of these, you may want to consider altering the pose, or making an alternate leg. Integrating scenic elements like the pile of skulls looks great for single figures, but it starts to look odd when several figures in a unit have the same foot on identical piles of skulls.
Otherwise, my only caution would be to keep your talons sunk as deeply into your current concept artist as you can. I think mini companies sometimes underestimate how important their freelance illustrators are. Yes, there are plenty of fantasy / sci-fi artists out there, including affordable up-and-coming types posting on DeviantArt etc.. But they're not an unlimited resource, and they're not all equal in talent. It's hard to underestimate how important Heath Foley has been for Mantic's miniature line, for example. In my opinion he's responsible for all of their most successful designs, and there's a clear qualitative difference between the work he's done for them and the work they've received from other illustrators.
You've done very well with Mr. Georgiev so far, and I hope to see your partnership with him continue long into the future.
(This is not a Mafia-styled insinuation that I have plans to hire him away from you. "It's nice to have a good illustrator, ain't it? Be a shame if anything happened to that beautiful partnership. A real shame . . .")
Grigor is awesome. He works very closely with my sculptor as well which means and we can get a real understanding of what we want and ideas tend to flow between all of us. We plan to use Grigor as our concept artist for as long as he is happy doing it! We have some cool concept art in the pipeline.
We do have some other Lizardkin artwork but they will not be involved in a Kickstarter until next year. The other artwork is for the Lizardkin Brave which is below.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I hope to have the scuplts underway soon for most things but not all of them will be done before launch. What I can promise is the attention to detail that we have shown in regard to the concept art in the sculpts we have already completed. I will make sure that I put the money from the KS straight into getting the new sculpts completed and any changes to model selections can be made, or even added to after this point.
Honestly, at this point I'm thinking I'll just be going for the 4-pack pledge, and getting 2 each of the Ironshield and Deathscale, in which case it would be a non-issue
They are all options. As soon as the Deathscale is unlocked the next stretchgoals are the replacement parts. You can choose any of the replacement parts for your chosen beaties. Some of the replacement parts are free and you can get them in addition to the head etc that you chose which should allow you to magnetise them to make different options for different games. Plus people can use them as those big lizard things in a certain mass combat game whose name eludes me at present ;p
Not yet. I'm just waiting for the last of the art and renders. It won't be very long. I have quite a lot of graphics to finish as well which I cant finish until I get the art and the renders....
I've been looking for a minotaur as a basis for a conversion I want to make for months without finding one that really fitted the aesthetic I wanted and then you go and draw this?
Please tell me he'll be large enough to fill a 60mm round base, give or take.
Hmm, I'm definitely not as sold on it as I am on Deathscale and Ironshield... but then that doesn't really matter for me as I will be happy to just get 2 of each of those and use the various bits to make them stand out from each other.
Bit of a misnomer. Most of the true 28mm models around tend to be historical minis. Fantasy minis, at least for the last 10 years or so tend to be slightly larger. I was comparing my mini size to that of other large manufacturers like GW who frequently make their miniatures 30mm to eyeline. GW's only true 28mm models are their LOTR range. Also a lot of other manufacturers tend to be slightly larger and I had a whole bunch of people complain when I described them as 28mm as they would not fit in with their armies size wise. Many companies now advertise their minis as 28, 30 or even 32mm.
However, I tend to prefer the size of 28mm miniatures like the Perry's produce. They tend to be slightly finer and I like that. Moving forward, we will be referring to our range as 28mm... not 30mm. But to be fair 28 or 32mm they are pretty much the same scale.
If they're meant to be "GW compatible" call them "heroic 28mm." If they're Perry-style or GWLotR call them "truescale 28mm".The terms may not be exactly 100% correct, but they are the common-use terms that everyone understands. Like "restic" isn't 100% accurate, but we all know what it means (as opposed to "premium plastic").
You are right. We are now referring to the range as 28mm. I think it avoids confusion. I originally changed it under advisement to 30mm as they found 28mm ambiguous because of the heroic scale differences. You can never please everyone! So 28mm it is! My sculptor is back up and running now so I should have the additional sculpts by next week. Then we will be ready to launch. I have asked for two additional zombie hulk heads to be done by our artist. I have gone for a cyclops head and a armoured variant. What do you think or is there another head you think would suit?
The terminology issues with scale are certainly annoying. Personally I'm not a huge fan of Perry/Infinity size minis, they're too titchy and delicate, but at the same time GW's "heroic" scale is just comical.
In the end the best way to avoid issues with people interpreting the scale of your range wrong is to take proper scale shots, by which I mean a pic with multiple models from different manufacturers to show relative scale, and a straight-on pic of one of your models next to a ruler(in mm) to show absolute scale. And do the same again for any models that are significantly outside your range's norm to avoid people being annoyed(I recently got the Empire Command Set from FW, at the time it mentioned no scale differences on their page, but the models are 34mm to the eyes and look ridiculous next to normal models - not on IMO).
I have now discovered a use for 3 Deathscales and 2 Ironshields . If you add on an extra brute to the 4-pack, will it come with the extra parts that the 4-pack ones come with?
Also, any hint on that start date? 2 weeks of October left
The way the KS will work is that, if you purchase the 4 Brute, EB option you will have 4 Brutes of your choice with any combination of parts that have been unlocked plus the free stretch goals you qualify for. You can buy any additional parts you wish for the purposes of customising etc from the addon store. You will need to purchase any additional brutes direct from the addon store. You can purchase multiples of the pledges from the addon store too if you wish.
The reason for the slight delay is that my sculptors 3D equipment failed and he has been waiting for a replacement. Luckily he has these parts now and has just finished the purgatory shield and mace for the bugbear! I will post them later for you guys.
The KS will definitely starts soon I promise... It will be October.
There will be an arm attached to this weapon as the piece will be joined at the shoulder. The arm will be the same as the original one but the angle the hand is holding the weapon will be different.
That shield could look sweet painted up glowing from the mouths like in the artwork. I think I personally will prefer the other two, but it is nice to have options
RiTides wrote: That shield could look sweet painted up glowing from the mouths like in the artwork. I think I personally will prefer the other two, but it is nice to have options
Agreed - options are good!
Plus, you know this campaign is going to make people get excited!
RiTides wrote: That shield could look sweet painted up glowing from the mouths like in the artwork. I think I personally will prefer the other two, but it is nice to have options
Agreed - options are good!
Plus, you know this campaign is going to make people get excited!
So...
We don't really get riptides in my state. The bay kills it.
Barzam wrote: A gladiator helmet!? Crap, now I have to get a minotaur.
...have we found your "Highlord Moment" here?
I thought you were all about the Skellies?!?
Possibly? I'm a bit more varied than Tamburlaine. I'll geek out over any undead, fantasy Romans, Gnolls, and werewolves.
Really though, hyena and canine based monsters will totally cause a Highlord moment for me, so you are free to meme me when the gnolls get revealed. And if there's gladiator gnolls or wolfmen, I'd probably buy the entire range, Kaine
Barzam wrote: A gladiator helmet!? Crap, now I have to get a minotaur.
...have we found your "Highlord Moment" here?
I thought you were all about the Skellies?!?
Possibly? I'm a bit more varied than Tamburlaine. I'll geek out over any undead, fantasy Romans, Gnolls, and werewolves.
Really though, hyena and canine based monsters will totally cause a Highlord moment for me, so you are free to meme me when the gnolls get revealed. And if there's gladiator gnolls or wolfmen, I'd probably buy the entire range, Kaine
This is good news!
(Runs off to prepare the "Bazrams Are Gonna Bazram!" meme)
Kaine Larson wrote:The Gnolls will be coming! We have orcs, Gnolls, Drow and lots of other things to come.
You really just need to launch this thing already!
Assuming you're referring to the shoulder pieces, Tre, those could be separate pieces. These will be cast in resin so having multiple parts still shouldn't be bad for assembling. I've got models from Mierce that come in tons of pieces for similar reasons.
I hope this 
. Just dipped my toe in for now, but I'll be a part of it no matter what (and maybe add more in a pledge manager later, if possible).
