Barzam wrote: this one is looking more and more like my kind of game. I just wish the human faction looked as good as the monsters.
The tactical humans look fine. It's just Karl the werewolf that bothers me from what I see so far.
Well, I know I'll for sure play using an Infinity Dog Soldier in place of Karl if I play as the humans. Hell, I'll probably just replace all of the humans with Infinity figures.
JohnHwangDD wrote: In my case, I have loads of SedWars minis I could swap in...
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@gohkm - it was said to be "restic" (PVC) like SedWars / Zombicide.
Not resin, not hard styrene.
Its PVC but its not the formula/mix that "restic" was made from its different to both the Sedition Wars and Zombicide "plastics" the manufacturer that made Sedition Wars is no longer being used.
I'm getting more and more excited about this! Any word on game play yet? Hopefully it will play like Zombicide because of GG involvement, the only reason I have not backed the Conan project is because it requires an overlord and I have no interest in that.
DaveC, those are indeed the pics with production minis I was talking about.
Will they show them in high res pics during the KS and not in tiny pics or nestled into artwork or stat cards, though? One of the bigger guys seems to have a bend base, which I'm okay with, if it is communicated/shown before that such a thing is possible. Just buy enough bases for possible replacements, no biggie.
I understand that painted resins look better and SELL the game better, but I want to see what I'll get, given that everything is at least prototyped. Otherwise I won't pledge. Except for the base game. That I'll have to get on potential alone
Sorry Binabik15 no idea at this time I would hope they will show close ups of the production miniatures given they are done, if not I'll certainly talk to someone who can do something about it
The bases are part of the miniature they aren't separate everything is one piece so you can play straight out of the box. If for some reason you get some warping just put them in hot water to straighten them - it's not ideal and shouldn't be necessary or required but it's usually a quick fix. The warping usually occurs when they pull them from the mold without cooling/setting them enough first.
It was my understandign that the onyl " others" mini that had been prototyped was the Pride avatar?? I readily admit I woudl nto be surprised at all if they did indeed already have a lot of these prototyped but I though tthe pieces they showed at Gen Con 2014 were all resin masters except fro PRide?
Resin painted and production to the rear (I had this confirmed privately last August - I just checked the email again to be sure )
As Binabik15 pointed out the Gluttony Avatar has a warped base which is unlikely in resin and is more common in PVC and the miniatures at the back are a bit smaller (and not just because they are further away )
Yeah... first time I'm actually excited about (rather, hoping for) double sculpts in the KS, since it'll give me a lot of fodder for other systems too.
From my experience with Dust models and hot water, nah, I'll just cut every warped base off and mount it on a plastic base. Too many things have slowly (some quickly!) warped themselves back after a hot water bath, so I've given up on this as a fix.
I'm actually not really worried about quality, just transparency when it comes to the minis. I have enough Dust stuff to know what to expect if it is done with similiar (the same?) material in the same facilities. And as someone doing full miniature sculpts for myself I'm simply a sucker for big pics of unpainted stuff with textures and volumes done by pros to maybe yoink an idea or two, so thanks for bothering them about it
overtyrant wrote: I'm getting more and more excited about this! Any word on game play yet? Hopefully it will play like Zombicide because of GG involvement, the only reason I have not backed the Conan project is because it requires an overlord and I have no interest in that.
2 - 5 players, 1 player controls the Others and the Hell club, the other players control Alpha team. It doesn't look likely that there is a 1 player option whether Co-op or AI for the other side.
The push for Co-op play is really a terrible trend, and I'm glad to see that the Others isn't catering to it. Co-op presumes a mindless opponent (e.g. zombies, weather), not an intelligent foe. An intelligent opponent needs a player pulling the strings.
overtyrant wrote: I'm getting more and more excited about this! Any word on game play yet? Hopefully it will play like Zombicide because of GG involvement, the only reason I have not backed the Conan project is because it requires an overlord and I have no interest in that.
2 - 5 players, 1 player controls the Others and the Hell club, the other players control Alpha team. It doesn't look likely that there is a 1 player option whether Co-op or AI for the other side.
That's a shame as I really like to play co-op with my son. I may still jump in as these miniatures look amazing!
To be fair though, the bulk of CMON's games haven't been co-ops, with the exception really of Zombicide, and even there we've been seeing competitive elements creep into that as well in the latest iteration.
I think co-op is something that a lot have been clamoring for in the dungeon crawl arena of games.
Too many of us got stuck playing overlords to wimpy gamers who always wanted the heroes to win, and never got to be the heroes ourselves.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: To be fair though, the bulk of CMON's games haven't been co-ops, with the exception really of Zombicide, and even there we've been seeing competitive elements creep into that as well in the latest iteration.
I think co-op is something that a lot have been clamoring for in the dungeon crawl arena of games.
Too many of us got stuck playing overlords to wimpy gamers who always wanted the heroes to win, and never got to be the heroes ourselves.
On the plus side, when you get pretty good at playing Consul / Overlord / Keeper, you usually do pretty well at playing Heroes when it's time to switch sides...
Insist on people taking turns as the Evil Overlord / Dungeon Keeper!
Desubot wrote: Im really confused as to how Tentacles = Pride
- Brainsplosion -
From what I understand of it, it's a specific monster that infects a person who's major sin is Pride. Or something like that.
Right, but all the monsters tend towards tentacles and foldy skins. The designs are neat, but if you showed me wrath and pride, and didn't tell me which was which, I wouldn't be able to guess.
Right, but all the monsters tend towards tentacles and foldy skins. The designs are neat, but if you showed me wrath and pride, and didn't tell me which was which, I wouldn't be able to guess.
Here's lust (spoilerd b/c could be slightly NSFW):
Spoiler:
Notice the lusty saggy breasts and the elongated vaginal mouth. Oh yeah, and the tiny babies sucked into the gut.
Gluttony:
Spoiler:
This one is pretty obvious.
And here's Envy:
Spoiler:
Here's the art for Wrath:
Spoiler:
So I think some of them are better at relaying their sins than others.
I think Pride has always been one of the harder ones to visualize.
Gotta say, Pride and Lust probably have the creepiest art. The monsters really do look like Necromorphs, though. I am really looking forward to this game.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Thank you very much for the clarification! The game is a lot clearer in my head now.
a Controller, some Lessers & a Greater for each Sin.
It all fits together, and I like it even better.
Spot on and then you have the Hell club who are separate to the others (they're the S&M cenobite looking guys) they are also controlled by the others player
I kind of respect that they didn't go the Slaneesh route for lust - T&A and such. The lust controller is simply awesome as a creepy figure. Does 40K mutant better than GW. That said, the demons all kind of run together. They could have done a better job of making them distinct flavors, as opposed "creepy twisted mutant things". They are good as that though, don't get me wrong. Envy is pretty sweet!
Maybe it's just me, but the human units do not match the sculpt quality of the monsters. I think I'd have to replace these guys with some figures that are a bit more interesting.
The humans are pretty good. The mutants are not as good as the Controllers, but the tacticals are perfectly serviceable.
The werewolf is still terrible, and needs to be reconcepted and resculpted. He's a super huge, strong, ancient werewolf. He doesn't need a sword. He should be *plenty* strong and fierce enough just with his bare claws and centuries of fighting experience.
For how good the rest of the range is, the werewolf is such a hugely obvious letdown.
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I wonder, did McVey not watch any of the Underworld movies? While Kate Beckinsale is incredible to watch, the Lycans would be great models for werewolves.
While I agree that these figures are "okey", they are unfortunately underwhelming considering who are behind this project. Okey are good for most companies, but here I expect more.
I can see why people wouldn't like the werewulf, but he doesn't really bother me. If you're that turned off by him, there are a few companies making werewolf minis that would suit you.
cincydooley wrote: I can see why people wouldn't like the werewulf, but he doesn't really bother me. If you're that turned off by him, there are a few companies making werewolf minis that would suit you.
The werewolf is badly-conceived and badly-sculpted. I shouldn't have to hunt and buy another werewolf model to make up for a clearly sub-par model in this game. There is time to get it right, and now is the time to be voicing concern and criticism.
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Thorley, the horned brute, is good. I like him. Great detail in the muscle & chain.
The tentacle girl is OK, although tentacles growing backward out of one's elbows doesn't make any anatomical sense whatsoever. This might need customization, but the key is that the girl and the tentacles are well-sculpted. Just not well-integrated.
The werewolf is badly-conceived and badly-sculpted. I shouldn't have to hunt and buy another werewolf model to make up for a clearly sub-par model in this game. There is time to get it right, and now is the time to be voicing concern and criticism.
.
I mean, he doesn't bother me at all, quite frankly.
I agree the pose isn't great the concept art was much better but it's not castable in one piece (all the characters need to be one piece) so it was changed. Several of the characters do suffer a bit pose wise being one piece. The sword was kept so it's obvious it's Karl so the sword needs to be somewhere but it's an odd pose. I very much doubt any of the sculpts will change now as they are to far advanced with production but no harm in asking .
Blood Rage is only a 2 week campaign so shouldn't make much of a difference for them.
I believe it has already been said that The Others is now looking at a late Q2 or even Q3 Kickstarter launch now. It sounds like they are being thorough to ensure that the game and components are top quality which after Sedition Wars is only a good thing.
Aeneades wrote: Blood Rage is only a 2 week campaign so shouldn't make much of a difference for them.
I believe it has already been said that The Others is now looking at a late Q2 or even Q3 Kickstarter launch now. It sounds like they are being thorough to ensure that the game and components are top quality which after Sedition Wars is only a good thing.
Components are fine. They're bulking out the Rules and Scenarios, to my understanding.
I'm a little late to the party, but none of the heroes really interest me. Very odd poses for several figures. The demon dude looks technically good, but it just doesn't pique my interest. Rose looks great aside from the tentacles. I liked the vampire until I zoomed in and saw the big goofy carrot fangs, but I suppose as small as it is it won't matter too much.
If I go in on this kickstarters it'll be the monsters carrying my pledge. Hopefully as big as they are the PVC won't hurt them much. Lots of interesting monsters involved.
You say that like 3rd edition was a bad thing. 2nd edition - for all of it's wonderful complexity - was HeroHammer. In my first game of 3rd, my Imperial Guard infantry managed to kill an Eldar Avatar. From that point I was sold. Just a shame it's evolved since then to become the worst of both worlds.
You say that like 3rd edition was a bad thing. 2nd edition - for all of it's wonderful complexity - was HeroHammer. In my first game of 3rd, my Imperial Guard infantry managed to kill an Eldar Avatar. From that point I was sold. Just a shame it's evolved since then to become the worst of both worlds.
I thought initially I'd really be into Blood Rage and not so much into The Others, but since I've learned more about Blood Rage's PvP only mode, I'm now back interested here.
I'm OK with Blood Rage's gameplay, but my gaming group prefers co-op more.
I thought initially I'd really be into Blood Rage and not so much into The Others, but since I've learned more about Blood Rage's PvP only mode, I'm now back interested here.
I'm OK with Blood Rage's gameplay, but my gaming group prefers co-op more.
I thought initially I'd really be into Blood Rage and not so much into The Others, but since I've learned more about Blood Rage's PvP only mode, I'm now back interested here.
I'm OK with Blood Rage's gameplay, but my gaming group prefers co-op more.
I much prefer co-op as well. Blood Rage is looking like something to potentially buy for the lovely figures that might also occasionally be played. That's why I wish they were doing the usual CMoN and throwing more models in - so I could use them for wargaming units. This one, I'm less sure about, but I guess there'll be time later.
Going by a guess at the size of those bases I'd say the tiles are 8-10" square. And yeah it does look chaotic -let's hope this isn't supposed to be the final tile art.
cincydooley wrote: That's why we're cursed with pre-assembled SDE figures.
Yep.
OTOH, SDE brought in 1.1M and got you 100+ miniatures, part of the money thanks to boardgamers.
If you want high quality miniatures, go buy high quality miniatures. Why bother with plastic when other miniature KS have high quality sculpts *and* cater to miniatures enthusiasts?
The main travesty is that these companies don't pull a GEG and somehow offer the same sculpts in higher quality materials, like Green Eye Games did with Fenris.
With CMON commissioning so many sculpts for their boardgames, it's too bad they don't have a higher quality miniatures-only line based on these sculpts for miniatures painters.
I have SDE in hand, and the minis look just fine, pre-assembled. If one wanted, I suppose they could be disassembled, cleaned up, and reassembled. Or even cleaned as-is. They're quite crisp.
Both Kingdom Death : Monster and Journey : Wrath of Demons offered a resin pledge. Arena Rex was all resin; Guildball was all metal. Still waiting to see these ship / finish shipping this year...
With CMON commissioning so many sculpts for their boardgames, it's too bad they don't have a higher quality miniatures-only line based on these sculpts for miniatures painters.
The painters seem to do pretty well with the plastics for The Others, from what I've seen.
@HWang - I think Guild Ball had a resin option too, no?
It will be sometime after ZOMBICIDE BLACK PLAGUE, which is due to launch in early June so... probably no launch here until...August/September, at a guess?
It's a shame the 7sin and Black Plague kickstarters are so close to the big Warhamer release, as I, like many other can only afford one of these 150-ish $ product.
Maybe by the end of the Zombicide kickstarter we will have pics of the warhammer stuff and choose between the 3 based on pics of contents and prices.
Warhammer Fantasy 9 will be around for at least 2 years, so you can wait until X-mas, or just grab a mini-rulebook when that comes out. I would pick up the Others - 7 Sins before WFB.
If I had a $150 budget, I'd put $120 toward the Others and $30 toward the mini rulebook. Especially with the rumors swirling on WFB9.
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I'm kinda leaning away from Black Plague, as it seems to duplicate things I already own (and should play more of): Super Dungeon Explore (tactical fantasy) and Zombicide (zombie killing).
The Others, OTOH looks to scratch a new itch with neat monsters.
Alpharius wrote: It will be sometime after ZOMBICIDE BLACK PLAGUE, which is due to launch in early June so... probably no launch here until...August/September, at a guess?
I'm assuming a week to few days prior to gencon.
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eflix29 wrote: It's a shame the 7sin and Black Plague kickstarters are so close to the big Warhamer release, as I, like many other can only afford one of these 150-ish $ product.
Maybe by the end of the Zombicide kickstarter we will have pics of the warhammer stuff and choose between the 3 based on pics of contents and prices.
Get the game you feel like you will be able to play the most or have opportunity to play and get your money's worth. Nothing worse than buying an expensive game that just sits on the shelf.
They must be plannng something special with this one, right? I mean, the minis were sculpted and some of them even production sampled LAST YEAR. Rogland Painting Service's FB and the Monster.0 blog are making me frothing-at-the-mouth for this. I don't want to play it, the boards look weird. But the minis are so siiick and twisted.
I'm wondering how they'll split them up, though. So many unique sculpts. And 7 different Sin families. Those and the cultists and the player models can't all be in the base game, can they? Especially if there are multiples for the cultists and lesser sins. I fear several 50 dollar expansions are coming.
There's no hint about the pledge structure so far, is there?
Binabik15 wrote: They must be plannng something special with this one, right? I mean, the minis were sculpted and some of them even production sampled LAST YEAR. Rogland Painting Service's FB and the Monster.0 blog are making me frothing-at-the-mouth for this. I don't want to play it, the boards look weird. But the minis are so siiick and twisted.
I'm wondering how they'll split them up, though. So many unique sculpts. And 7 different Sin families. Those and the cultists and the player models can't all be in the base game, can they? Especially if there are multiples for the cultists and lesser sins. I fear several 50 dollar expansions are coming.
There's no hint about the pledge structure so far, is there?
Sculpting is cheaper than tooling, and cutting 1 tool with a test run is pretty minimal cost, compared to cutting a whole game worth of tools and doing production.
I'm assuming all 7 Sins will be in the box, because that's what the box says on the cover. If it's "Includes 3 Sins out of 7, buy 4 more Sin packs!", that's going to be very disappointing. I'm assuming that the base game will have a relatively small number of Sins to start, but we'll get stretch goals for multiples to pad them out, like Zombicide.
I assume the Others will be structured akin to Blood Rage or Zombicide - a $75-90 base game with a $40-50 expansion and $20 shipping tacked on.
Thought this was an interesting comment given we have seen all the miniatures revealed so far painted up, so there's more we haven't seen for expansions/stretch goals I'd guess.
Rogland Painting Service (RPS)
7 hrs ·
Today i got more awsome figures from Mike, Fenrir from Blood Rage and a couple of larger monsters for The Others - 7 Sins
Terror. Corruption. Redemption.
Those are the themes of The Others, the new game from Guillotine Games and Studio McVey. We’ve been seeing some pretty sweet-looking models (one of which we did an unboxing for last year), but now it’s time to get some real information about the game. We had such a chance here at the CMON Expo during The Others panel that just wrapped up.
Eric Lang, the designer of the game, described it at the biggest game he’s worked on. In it, one person plays as the Sin, and the others are hero players who are part of F.A.I.T.H. (the Federal Authority for the Interdiction of Transdimensional Horrors). It’s a sort of pre-apocalypse genre. The end of the world hasn’t happened… yet, and it’s the hero players’ job to make sure it doesn’t happen.
The game will always have 7 hero characters in it, no matter how many players there actually are. They are encouraged to work together to overcome tasks. In fact, if they don’t work together, it’s almost a guarantee that they will fail. The game ends in defeat for them if all 7 heroes die or become fully corrupted. All of the hero’s information is open, anyone can look at it. It’s only the Sin player who knows things that the heroes won’t.
The antagonist miniatures are based on the 7 Deadly Sins. All of those factions play very differently. For example, Pride gets extra dice when fighting against heroes that are separated from the group, while Lust is the opposite, getting bonuses when heroes are grouped together. All of them have various sets of minions and abominations as part of their ghoulish arsenal. As for the heroes, they are assigned to protect the city. The characters fill various archetypes, such as leader, bruiser, fixer, and sniper.
The game uses special customized dice for combat. Both the Sin and the heroes have different ones. For example, the Sin’s dice have symbols that mean attack, defend, corrupt, and critical (along with miss, but just don’t roll those). There’s an exploding dice mechanic as well. So if you roll a critical, it counts as both a hit and adds and extra die to your roll. So there’s the potential for some pretty spectacular things to happen if the rolls go just right (or wrong, depending on what side of the board you’re on).
Helping you keep track of things is the Hero Sheet. There’s one track for your character’s corruption and the one below it for health. There are various ways for them to gain corruption, but one is by choice. A player can choose to have their corruption go up by one. If they do, they’ll get a bonus that’s shown on the health track below. But it’s not just the one bonus, they’ll get each previous bonus on the health track as well. Pretty powerful, but you must be careful because that bonus is based on a character’s health. So as they take damage, the bonus from gaining corruption goes down. And when a character is at maximum corruption and must gain more, it goes straight to their health. Also, Sin players can give out corruption cards. None of them are ever good to have. They can do things such as deal more damage, kill the character, or even turn the hero into a minion of Sin.
When setting up, players pick a Story Board. This is like the scenario for the game. One player is the Mission Leader who chooses how the heroes go about the scenario. Each Story Board has branches that players choose from while advancing through scenario. In this way, there’s extra variety to your games. Also, since the Sin player can pick any Sin to use (and as we’ve mentioned, Sins play very differently from one-another), each Story Board can end up going a variety of different ways during the game.
Like the Hero Boards, there’s the Apocalypse Track for the Sin player. These are related to the Story Board and give various effects for the Sin player, including the amount of dice they get to roll in certain situations, the number of monsters available, and other bonuses and effects the Sin player can use during the game.
The Others uses modular tiles to build the game board. They’re comparable to the Zombicide boards for anyone familiar with how those tiles work. Tiles can provide players with various actions that can be performed while on that board. For example, the City Hall lets the players gain resources, while the Church may help get rid of Corruption.
A Kickstarter campaign for The Others is in the works, with a most-likely launch date being sometime in September. Obviously, Zombicide is rolling right now, and Guillotine is going to give people a bit of a breather in-between that one and The Others, but the plan is to have the campaign running by the end of the year. There will be exclusive content for Kickstarter backers, as is usual for a CMON campaign.
Not yet I don't think it was open to the public to play (the room they set up in is not the main room for the Expo so it looks like it was invite only). DiceandNames, Watch it Played and Gamewiregirl got to play it with Eric Lang so they might comment on it at some point.
I think it's still in the play test stage so they aren't making it public yet there was an invite on facebook to take part in a private test session at Gencon.
I'd be interested in this one if it were more Lovecraftian horror and less sexually fetishistic. Too many leather daddies, cheesecake heroines, and vagina dentata monsters for my taste.
I agree that the werewolf is a wierd choice of a design. It just doesn't seem to fit in any kind of way just yet. Maybe it will get clearer once the background/story is known.
i thought it was supposed to be more "hell raiser/clive barker" rather than lovecraft to begin with. Everything looks fine to me so far some nice models.
I love the concept of the game. I love the enemy designs. I really don't like the heroes though. They're all very "meh" in comparison to the bad guys. I know that when I play, I'm replacing all of the heroes with Infinity figures.
i was always one to like the "bad guys" in games they generally have less restrictions on how they look also they tend to be more diverse than the "heros".
Though that is a pretty brilliant idea Barzam looking more special ops against demons like something out of "the order"? i believe the game was called.
Unfortunately the human sized minis look like th same material and mis sized gak that was the sedition wars. Their monsters look great however. Well have to see how this develops through out the summer.
I think the big question is whether it's worth $100 (or whatever) for the monster models. I think it's going to be an interesting KS if/when it finally launches.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I think the big question is whether it's worth $100 (or whatever) for the monster models. I think it's going to be an interesting KS if/when it finally launches.
I personally think the game is probably worth it even if it included cardboard standees.
The Pride figure I have is phenomenal, and the other sin figures that I've handled are as well.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I think the big question is whether it's worth $100 (or whatever) for the monster models. I think it's going to be an interesting KS if/when it finally launches.
I personally think the game is probably worth it even if it included cardboard standees.
The Pride figure I have is phenomenal, and the other sin figures that I've handled are as well.
Can you think of any good comparisons to other games regarding how it plays? Does it play fast or slow?
It's a "DM vs ALL" style game, so in that vein it isn't dissimilar from like, Descent or SDE. But the game feels much different. The balancing of corruption is super important, and teamwork is also REALLY REALLY important.
I'd say that while it's still firmly rooted in "ameritrash," it has enough resource management aspects to make it friendly to eurogamers. I thought the same, coincidentally, about the new Conan boardgame, and for that reason both really appeal to me.
It's a "DM vs ALL" style game, so in that vein it isn't dissimilar from like, Descent or SDE. But the game feels much different. The balancing of corruption is super important, and teamwork is also REALLY REALLY important.
I'd say that while it's still firmly rooted in "ameritrash," it has enough resource management aspects to make it friendly to eurogamers. I thought the same, coincidentally, about the new Conan boardgame, and for that reason both really appeal to me.
Thanks for the info cincy. I think I have an idea of how it might play.
I see from the GenCon news that CMoN is still showing the minis, but anything announced? They're timing the KS launch to start after KD:M delivers?
Any comment on the feedback of "issues" with the (flawed) human protagonist figures? Esp. the werewolf? The unattractive "hero" models are what's holding me back - I don't really want to play with them.
The lack of buzz and news post-GenCon doesn't help, esp when the game keeps getting pushed back.
There aren't "issues" with the human figures. Some people just don't like them aesthetically. I don't think they'll change the concepts and sculpts based on that, quite honestly.
I think it's going to a be a pretty popular KS. Being an Eric Lang game, and being a CMoN KS, I bet it'll hit over $1MM
I've been thinking about getting in on it when they do launch it, I think the demony things are great enough to overlook some of the men that I didn't like as much. But I'm just hesitating because I have so much on my plate.. between my own games, plus Age of Sigmar, plus AdMech, plus Blood Rage & Dungeon Saga showing up soon... I'll never be able to paint all this stuff.
Is the material they are making these in the same as the new Zombicide material for Black Plague? I'm wondering if they are waiting to see how it works out.
wolfpackee on BGG wrote:I got the chance to play this at CMON Expo with Eric Lang running the game.
For days he had talked about he was going to make us cry and during the game he was collecting our tears as we suffered losses...but first a little about the game. This is a one vs many game like Mansions of Madness or Descent. The world is going to end and the 7 Deadly sins have corrupted people in your town and you are trying to protect it. It's a story driven game where each piece of the story has different objectives you need to fulfill like collect certain pieces, kill certain monsters, etc. During your turn you move around the town fighting bad guys, gathering loot, and just trying to stay a live. It's a dice based combat game in the vein of Descent. Weapons or armor you loot gain you dice to roll to increase you odds of hitting or defending.
The unique mechanic of the game is the corruption track. Whenever you need to make a roll, you can increase you corruption to give you bonuses. Corruption ranges from 0 to 7. Each time you increase your corruption it gives you a bonus such as an extra die to roll, or automatic hit. But not only do you get the bonus of the current corruption level, you get everyone below it. So by the time you hit 7 corruption, you get 7 bonuses which are very powerful. BUT, if you max out your corruption, anytime you get be corrupted by a monster or mechanic that the evil player is doing you'd take a wound. When you take a wound you cover one of the bonuses you'd get on your corruption track which means you don't get that bonus anymore. Four wounds and your dead.
Once you die, there are other characters that can come into play. But if any player dies, and there are no more characters you can use, game over. If the players complete the last story objective the players win. It's a very tense game and the difficulty ramps up as the game progresses. The management of the corruption is the most important aspect. And co-op is VERY important. You have to work together. Also there is replayability in the game because there are multiple scenarios and each of the 7 sins affects the environment differently. For example, we played again Lust. If two players were ever in the same room together at the end of a turn, something bad happened.
Once again, the minis looks gorgeous (duh it's a CMON game )
In conclusion...
In our game, we were on the brink of death and decided to attack the final boss in a blaze of glory, we took our last corruption bonus, rolled well and won the game. It was we who got to drink Eric's tears that night :cool:
It's good that they're finally launching, although the delays and such leading up to the KS aren't exactly a sign of confidence by CMoN. I'll probably wait until the very end before deciding.
I think it is more down to 'when is the right time to launch this' + 'we just did BLOODRAGE, B-SIEGED and ZOMBICIDE BLACK PLAGUE' = push it out a bit in order to maximize sales vs. any over lack of confidence in the gameplay or miniatures.
The Others could have taken any of those slots, esp. the underwhelming B-seiged, but CMoN pushed the Others back in favor of those 3. The Others was claimed to be ready to launch a long time ago, but CMoN didn't launch it. I take that as a sign of low confidence.
I was eventually willing to give CMON another chance after the Sedition Wars failure by pledging for both Blood Rage and Zombicide Black Plague. Seeing some of the games between Sedition Wars and those hit retail, CMON has redeemed themselves in my eyes. Studio McVey ? Not at all. This one is an easy pass for me. CMON is right to have a lack of confidence given their history with McVey and Sedition Warts.
JohnHwangDD wrote: The Others could have taken any of those slots, esp. the underwhelming B-seiged, but CMoN pushed the Others back in favor of those 3. The Others was claimed to be ready to launch a long time ago, but CMoN didn't launch it. I take that as a sign of low confidence.
I take it more as it wasn't quite ready and needed a bit more polish/playtesting/whatever.
I guess I'm more a 'glass half full kind of guy'?
(Not sure where that's coming from in regards to Kickstarters though!)
I haven't ruled it out, but I'm a lot less excited for the Others than I was. The SMV minis are a bit of a mixed bag for me, but I am glad that the rules have an actual designer behind them. I just need to see the whole KS offer before I decide.
On the plus side, at least CMoN delivers. And they actually, consistently deliver what they say, when they say they will.
None of this Palladium Robotech nonsense - that's a big plus in my book!
Myrthe wrote: I was eventually willing to give CMON another chance after the Sedition Wars failure by pledging for both Blood Rage and Zombicide Black Plague. Seeing some of the games between Sedition Wars and those hit retail, CMON has redeemed themselves in my eyes. Studio McVey ? Not at all. This one is an easy pass for me. CMON is right to have a lack of confidence given their history with McVey and Sedition Warts.
Studio McVey's only involvement is the miniatures the same as Blood Rage, they are also responsible for a lot of the Zombicide Black Plague miniatures (Remy now works full time for Studio McVey). Eric Lang and Guillotine Games are responsible for the rest like Blood Rage. Going forward Studio McVey is purely a miniatures studio they will have no involvement in any other part of the process Mike has no interest in doing anything other than miniatures from now on.
It is unfortunate though, as September has so many non-miniature things coming up to compete for dollars. The new Bloodbowl 2 video game is hitting, Destiny: The Taken King is dropping and several pledge managers should be opening too. Dollars are going to be hard won in the coming months, especially with Fallout 4, Star Wars Battlefront and the revolving Call of Duty all dropping soon after.
I think they looked at how long production was going to be tied up with the other campaigns and looked at which one to shove back.
Blood rage looked great and would be ready for Gencon (not pushing it back)
Zombicide:BP, you don't delay your flagship, plus the income from that can cushion more flops.
B-Seiged......well you don't want to end on a sour note, so move that sucker up before Zombicide:BP
The Others unknown, great looking monsters, so so Heros, so we might be able to capitalize on the blood rage sales as people might pick these up because blood rage did so well. Or it will flop but we have the reserve from ZBP to cover the lose. Or it could just break even. So many possibilities with this game but so many people have been pro monsters and anti Heros that it's hard to tell.
Myrthe wrote: I was eventually willing to give CMON another chance after the Sedition Wars failure by pledging for both Blood Rage and Zombicide Black Plague. Seeing some of the games between Sedition Wars and those hit retail, CMON has redeemed themselves in my eyes. Studio McVey ? Not at all. This one is an easy pass for me. CMON is right to have a lack of confidence given their history with McVey and Sedition Warts.
Studio McVey's only involvement is the miniatures the same as Blood Rage, they are also responsible for a lot of the Zombicide Black Plague miniatures (Remy now works full time for Studio McVey). Eric Lang and Guillotine Games are responsible for the rest like Blood Rage. Going forward Studio McVey is purely a miniatures studio they will have no involvement in any other part of the process Mike has no interest in doing anything other than miniatures from now on.
Ah, thanks for the information, DaveC. I didn't realize that Studio McVey had reverted back to a minis-only stance. I had pretty much written them off but it's good that they recognized their strengths and have moved in that direction.
Myrthe wrote: I was eventually willing to give CMON another chance after the Sedition Wars failure by pledging for both Blood Rage and Zombicide Black Plague. Seeing some of the games between Sedition Wars and those hit retail, CMON has redeemed themselves in my eyes. Studio McVey ? Not at all. This one is an easy pass for me. CMON is right to have a lack of confidence given their history with McVey and Sedition Warts.
Studio McVey's only involvement is the miniatures the same as Blood Rage, they are also responsible for a lot of the Zombicide Black Plague miniatures (Remy now works full time for Studio McVey). Eric Lang and Guillotine Games are responsible for the rest like Blood Rage. Going forward Studio McVey is purely a miniatures studio they will have no involvement in any other part of the process Mike has no interest in doing anything other than miniatures from now on.
Ah, thanks for the information, DaveC. I didn't realize that Studio McVey had reverted back to a minis-only stance. I had pretty much written them off but it's good that they recognized their strengths and have moved in that direction.
And as Dave C said, the playtesting and production of the game is being managed by Guillotine, who has a pretty solid track record so far of not just good testing and rules, but also of punctuality.
I've played the game 1.5 times; it's pretty cool. New Genre for CMoN in that it's a 1 v Many, but I think this is a pretty neat game.
Alex C wrote: If enough good-looking gribblies come in the box, I might be tempted, but the heroes and game components shown so far don't really appeal.
I have a feeling this one will be a case of "$80 for gribbly monsters, get a free game!", much like Blood Rage...
The blood rage that sold out in about 2 hours on gencon Thursday? That one?
Alex C wrote: If enough good-looking gribblies come in the box, I might be tempted, but the heroes and game components shown so far don't really appeal.
I have a feeling this one will be a case of "$80 for gribbly monsters, get a free game!", much like Blood Rage...
The blood rage that sold out in about 2 hours on gencon Thursday? That one?
Yes, that one.
The one that many people bought for the miniatures alone, regardless of the actual game.
Sorry if it sounded like a diss, not my intention, just my thoughts from my perspective.
Alex C wrote: If enough good-looking gribblies come in the box, I might be tempted, but the heroes and game components shown so far don't really appeal.
I have a feeling this one will be a case of "$80 for gribbly monsters, get a free game!", much like Blood Rage...
The blood rage that sold out in about 2 hours on gencon Thursday? That one?
Yes, that one.
The one that many people bought for the miniatures alone, regardless of the actual game.
It's OK, most people only backed on KS for the minis, not the actual game. Would have been better if we could have gotten a minis-only pledge...
Alpharius wrote: I think it is more down to 'when is the right time to launch this' + 'we just did BLOODRAGE, B-SIEGED and ZOMBICIDE BLACK PLAGUE' = push it out a bit in order to maximize sales vs. any over lack of confidence in the gameplay or miniatures.
I don't see why any company would worry about such considerations. For example look at Mantic, with their kickstarters launching on top of each other while the previous campaigns' pledge managers open simultaneously, piling up customer requests and forming such a swollen bolus of information as to give their workflow the equivalent of a double-whammy arterial clog and Chicago-style colon blockage.
Alex C wrote: If enough good-looking gribblies come in the box, I might be tempted, but the heroes and game components shown so far don't really appeal.
I have a feeling this one will be a case of "$80 for gribbly monsters, get a free game!", much like Blood Rage...
The blood rage that sold out in about 2 hours on gencon Thursday? That one?
Yes, that one.
The one that many people bought for the miniatures alone, regardless of the actual game.
It's OK, most people only backed on KS for the minis, not the actual game. Would have been better if we could have gotten a minis-only pledge...
I assume you like, totally have stats to back that up.
What a ridiculous claim. It's a game from an incredibly popular designer.
I actually backed Blood Rage for the minis, I wanted to make a WFB viking themed chaos army, before it got Sigmarified. Now at least the round bases will be appropriate I still intend to try playing blood rage and see if it's fun.
I'm sure the others will be a similar format, like $150 pledge for the game and all the freebies and buckets of add-ons. I'm still on the fence, the minis look good but I have so much on my plate right now I'd probably never get around to painting them :(
Unless there's a lot of minis that haven't been shown yet I think I'll pass on this. The monsters look great and the game sounds interesting but the hero minis aren't appealing to me at all and Im not inclined to buy the game if I'm going to substitute other minis for the player characters. I realize it's really just a personal preference and I wish the player character sculpts were as awesome as the monsters but I can't bring myself to back the game if I'm going to discard the character minis.
It's the nature of KS. It's easier to evaluate the quality of a miniature with photos online than it is to try out a boardgame that hasn't even been made yet.
Likewise, 28mm miniatures from one game can be used in another. But if you buy a non-miniatures game and you don't like it -- even if others do -- you might as well have thrown away your money.
As for Eric Lang, I played his earlier game designs (Mystick, Dragonball Z, Game of Thrones CCG, Senator) as well as Quarriors and was pretty "whatever" about it.
OTOH, The Others looks interesting because of its Corruption mechanic, which adds "meaningful decisions" to the tired old "hit points" mechanic.
I already have a closetful of games I enjoy playing, so am in no hurry to spend $100+ on a new game, regardless of how "popular" the designer is.
I only got it for the minis as well. It's not that much of a stretch as there were plenty of people who were asking for the miniatures only. I've read some of the game info and basically I'm going to use some minis, sell the rest off and hold onto the board and cards for later if someone needs replacements. I figure I could sell all the kickstarter exclusives and make most of my cash back if not more. Current plans are to use Fenrir and/or werewolf for the abomiwolf as I don't like that sculpt. The Giants and trolls I'll keep most of, but probably sell the rest.
Theophony wrote: Honestly I never heard of Eric Lange before this game. What else has he made, and do any of them stand up still, or are they "good" games, just dated?
2015 Blood Rage
2015 XCOM: The Board Game
2015 Dungeons & Dragons Dice Masters: Battle for Faerûn
2014 Arcadia Quest
2014 Warhammer 40,000: Conquest
2014 Marvel Dice Masters: Avengers vs. X-Men
2014 Kaosball: The Fantasy Sport of Total Domination
2012 Star Wars: The Card Game
2011 Quarriors!
2009 Chaos in the Old World
2009 Warhammer: Invasion
2008 A Game of Thrones: The Card Game
2008 Call of Cthulhu: The Card Game
2005 Lord of the Rings: The Confrontation (Deluxe Edition)
Man, I've been trying to stay out of this 'cause it just pisses me off, but...
The Others rules design isn't by SMV (thanks Sinful, for the list), and even if the rules were by SMV, it wouldn't be by the designer responsible for the poor rules showing out the gate, because he doesn't work for SMV any more (AFAIK, they don't have any game design staff currently).
On The Others, I'm on the fence because I'm not a big fan of co-op vs. one, and, like Prestor said, I prefer the heroes having the best minis, but there are a bunch of great looking monsters, still.
I didn't pick up Blood Rage although I now wish I had just for the miniatures (even though I have no use for them at present, you can never have too many Vikings plus I liked the trolls).
I will most likely pick up The Others for the monster miniatures to use for Strange Aeons as unfortunately I am not a fan of 1 v many board games either.
Echoing the others, I too backed for the minis. Lang's Chaos in the Old World is actually a super fave of mine, but my group is so time starved nowadays that these kind of games hit the table only once in a blue moon. I would've passed on this KS but I rationaled it out in my brain that the minis would make a good painting project
Anyway pretty certain that lots others are in the same boat, they even changed the name of the KS thread here on dakka as a (joke) commentary on it haha
After looking again, I noticed that I read John's post as "Most" and not "many;" big difference there in meaning, so I apologize for the misunderstanding.
I agree there are probably "many" people that bought for the miniatures; I'd still posit it's less than 1/5 of the total backers.
Like I said, Lang is incredibly popular when it comes to board game design (Hell, Tom Vasel said he'd buy the game based on that name alone), which is evident by how quickly it sold out without any of the bonuses that we're getting as part of the KS.
It doesn't surprise me, however, that he isn't well known in the tabletop wargame community.
If you look at the writer's top ten game projects, nine of of the ten are miniatures-related, three aren't games, and, while the tenth is the number-one in funds and has no miniatures, the game is... Exploding Kittens.
When three of the top ten have no gameplay, three others are all the same game, and the first isn't anything close to a hobby boardgame, I'm thinking gameplay isn't terribly important to backers.
Or at least backers with money. If anyone can find articles of the "most number of backers" for tabletop projects, please let me know.
Huh- that guy completely missed Bone 1 (which outfunded Conan).
Now, let's be fair about Reaper's Bones line- if you collect a few minis here and there, and you just like to have a cool sculpt to paint once in a while... then you're not buying Reaper's Bones.
The Bones Kickstarters allow people to purchase large piles of minis. The minis are designed to be used in tabletop RPGs (primarily- some of them can sub nicely for other tabletop games).
Bones is basically a "Game Accessory" since you can't get the rules for Pathfinder/D&D/Iron Kingdoms etc. from Reaper.
Now, funding a new game is not easy. If people want your box simply for the rattle value (ie- they want to use your minis for something else) then you're gold. They'll buy your game for that, get excited with the Kickstarter- and later, they'll even try playing your game. They might like it, and you might have a huge fan-base.
That's what sold the first Zombicide game (it was all about the rattle value). The second two sold based largely on how good the game was (people knew).
Bones 1 is probably not on the list because it is under the "Games" category, rather than "Tabletop Games" (which was not yet a sub-category at the time).
It might be- really, if the change was implemented between Bones and Kingdom Death, then it would be the only one that's that big.
Now, I think we're clearly in a miniatures board game renaissance.
It isn't just hat nine of the top ten tabletop game projects include a large pile of minis to backers. It is also that there are tons of other big projects that also have large piles of minis.
There are tons of cool miniatures board games coming out right now. This was a thing that had practically disappeared from the market.
I actually think the resurgence started up before the Kickstarter rush (with things like Super Dungeon and Descent). But Kickstarter definitely gave it a big boost.
The old hayday of the minis board game was back in the late '80s and early '90s when GW was regularly making them (Heroquest, Space Crusade, Space Hulk, Siege of the Citadel, Dragonstrike etc).
Now, there's a ton more- with things like Shadows of Brimstone, Mercs Recon, Journey, Alien vs. Predator, even more Super Dungeon and a metric ton of miniatures board games from CMON.
I think TTGs were a subset of Games when Bones 1 launched, but Reaper didn't put it in TTGs because there weren't any rules for the models during the KS.
Since then, Reaper puts it in TTGs because TTGs are the most successful category of KS, and because Bones supports a variety of TTGs such as Pathfinder, D&D, etc.
The methodology is fine for a first glance. Breaking minis-only off from terrain-only vs "things you can play out of the box" or "things with rules of how to play" is splitting hairs that I wouldn't put on someone not intimately familiar with gaming.
I do believe the Terrain and Bones things show just how big D&D / Pathfinder RPG is compared to TTWG.
The original Super Dungeon Explore launch definitely was KS-like, with the HUGE marketing launch for preorders. Moving to KS smoothed a lot of that process out, consolidating the marketing on a tailored platform, and unifying the preorder system.
Image of the final production pieces for alpha team looks like they went with a blue tint in the plastic these are absolutely final no redesigns are going to happen KS date to be announced soon.
Terror. Corruption. Redemption.
These are the themes of The Others: 7 Sins, the new game from Guillotine Games and Studio McVey. We’ve been seeing some pretty sweet-looking models, but now, with the Kickstarter campaign growing ever-nearer, it’s time to get some real information about the game. We talked with some of the designers as well as Eric Kelley, head writer for the game, and got them to spill a few secrets.
Eric Lang, the designer of the game, described it as the biggest game he’s worked on. In it, one person plays as the Sin, and the others are hero players who are part of F.A.I.T.H. (Federal Authority for the Interdiction of Transdimensional Horrors). It’s a sort of pre-apocalypse genre. The end of the world hasn’t happened… Yet. That is what the Sin’s player is looking to initiate, and it’s the hero players’ job to make sure it doesn’t happen.
Horror From Beyond
Fluff-wise, The Others is best described as X-Men battling Cthulhu cultists and monsters. F.A.I.T.H. is led by Doctor Leah Solomon, who is inadvertently responsible for the current crisis. Many years ago, she was part of a research team working to open gateways to extra-dimensional space. The potential benefits were huge, with possibilities for travel, energy production, and even colonization up for grabs.
But a laboratory accident brought forth the Others, creatures from a parallel dimension that operate, essentially, as one titanic entity. The Others’ dimension is old, very old, and while it has its own ecosystem, new dimensions are like candy: a treat the Others cannot resist! The Others have a corrupting influence on the world around them. They’ve come to Earth to feed on our planet. Humans, animals, plants, everything is fair game. They like humans best though. The Others corrupted many of Doctor Solomon’s colleagues, including the game’s primary antagonist, Doctor Gan, and these lost souls formed the Hell Club, a shadowy organization bent on opening vast gateways for the Others to invade en masse. Doctor Gan knew that Leah Solomon would be one of his greatest threats, so he set about destroying her slowly and painfully over many years.
Fortunately for Doctor Solomon, this isn’t the first time the Others have visited our dimension. They’ve been fought before, most notably by the vampire Morgana. Morgana is possibly the most powerful (and dangerous) entity on the planet, being (at least) 3000 years old, with all the cunning and intelligence her age implies. She’s also the very last vampire on Earth (having survived the war against the werewolves). Morgana’s vast wealth funds F.A.I.T.H., though Doctor Solomon holds the sole command. They’ve assembled their team of various specialists, including a brilliant detective, two Other/Human hybrids, a spec ops mercenary, and the world’s oldest living werewolf. Players use these characters in their various roles to combat the Others infection, hopefully keeping it from consuming the board (and then the world).
The game will always have seven hero characters in it, no matter how many players there actually are. They are encouraged to work together to overcome tasks. In fact, if they don’t work together, it’s almost a guarantee that they will fail. There’s always going to be more tasks than available heroes on the field. Sometimes you’re just going to have to let that orphanage burn for a couple rounds before you can deal with it. The game ends in defeat if all heroes die or become fully corrupted. All of the heroes’ information is open, anyone can look at it. It’s only the Sin player who knows things the heroes won’t.
The antagonist miniatures are based on the Seven Deadly Sins. All of those factions play very differently. For example, Pride gets extra dice when fighting against heroes that are separated from the group, while Lust is the opposite, getting bonuses when heroes are grouped together. All of them have various sets of minions and abominations as part of their ghoulish arsenal. As for the heroes, they are assigned to protect the city. The characters fill various archetypes, such as leader, bruiser, fixer, and sniper.
A Strategy Against Madness
The game uses special customized dice for combat. Both the Sin and the heroes have different ones. For example, the Sin’s dice have symbols for attack, defend, corrupt, critical, and miss (but don’t roll those). There’s an exploding dice mechanic as well. So if you roll a critical, it counts as both a hit and adds an extra die to your roll. So there’s the potential for some pretty spectacular things to happen if the rolls go just right (or wrong, depending on what side of the board you’re on).
Helping you keep track of things is the Hero Dashboard. There’s one track for your character’s corruption and the one below it for health. There are various ways for them to gain corruption, but one is by choice. A player can choose to have their corruption go up by one. If they do, they’ll get a bonus that’s shown on the health track below. But it’s not just the one bonus, they’ll get each previous bonus on the health track as well! Pretty powerful, but you must be careful because that bonus is based on a character’s health. As the heroes take damage, the bonus from gaining corruption goes down. And when a character is at maximum corruption and must gain more, it goes straight to their health.
Of course, that’s not the only way to gain corruption. The Sin player can give out corruption cards. None of them are ever good to have. They can do things such as deal more damage, kill the character, or even turn the hero into a minion of Sin. The Sin player is also encouraged to try and tempt the Hero players into gaining more corruption. The temptation of extra power for a roll or some other bonus is ever present, the Sin player helping to send the Hero players over the edge.
When setting up, players pick a Story Board, which acts as a scenario for the game. One Hero player is the Mission Leader who chooses how the heroes go about the scenario. The Story Board outlines what sort of objectives the Hero player will need to accomplish in order to win the game. After an objective is passed, the Hero players may have a choice for what their next objective will be. This “branching scenario” adds extra variety to your games, since if you find yourself failing going one direction, you may try to go the other next time around.
Since the Sin player can pick any Sin to use (and each Sin plays very differently from one-another), each Story Board can end up going a variety of different ways during the game. This is not just a “beat up the monsters” sort of game. While there are certainly monsters lurking around the board, the Hero player will have a variety of things they have to do in order to win. Of course, taking out some of the enemy monsters couldn’t make things much worse, could they?
Like the Hero Boards, there’s the Apocalypse Track for the Sin player. These are related to the Story Board and regulate the various effects for the Sin player, including the amount of dice they get to roll in certain situations, the number of monsters available, and other bonuses the Sin player can use during the game.
City Under Siege
The Others uses modular tiles to build the game board. They’re comparable to the Zombicide boards for anyone familiar with how those tiles work. Tiles can provide players with various actions that can be performed while on that board. For example, the City Hall lets the players gain resources, while the Church may help get rid of Corruption. Setup can be critically important. What locations do you put close together? What can you set apart from others? Where will the Sin player place their spawn points? Once again, this is the place where the game gains replayability as even with everything else being the same, the board can be drastically different from one session to another.
Buying Transgressions
A Kickstarter campaign for The Others is in the works. Guillotine wanted to give people a bit of a breather in-between the Zombicide: Black Plague campaign and The Others, but the plan is to have the campaign very soon.
Yep, replacing every hero with an Infinity mini. They're technically decent figures, but their designs really do very little for me. It's a shame since the monsters really are fantastic.
Barzam wrote: Yep, replacing every hero with an Infinity mini. They're technically decent figures, but their designs really do very little for me. It's a shame since the monsters really are fantastic.
I don't know if I will back on this, but if I do, I think I will scratch build all the heroes in a kit-bashed =][=munda style. I think there would be a lot of nice space there for that.
The heroes look a little better all together, but still not nearly as good as the demony things. I'm still on the fence but may have to skip it due to the sheer amount of stuff I have coming in to paint, between Blood Rage, Dungeon Saga and others...
I would imagine they'll still do an early bird. They've done one on all the most recent ones- usually they have the exact amount it would take to get the game funded.
Leader - well rounded, supports teammates - Leah Solomon (gives heroes extra turns)
Sniper - long range attacks - Brad Holocomb (demolition expert) and Rocco de Curtis (marksman, 2 additional hits, headshots)
Fixer - not great fighters, intelligent, good knowledge of the occult, problem solvers - Rose (mind control ability), Karl (resistant to corruption)
Bruiser - the fighters - Thorley (can cancel damage to friendly models), Morganna (Healing ability)
I'm going to go in so hard Lust will blush. Err. I mean, I'ml ooking forward to the creepiness. Even more now that I'm actually making an effort to read all of Lovecraft.
The only thing worrying me is SPACE. Rum n Bones came in a ridiculously large box and that was just KS extras, base game and one additional crew. Urgh. Blood Rage, FConan, ireteam Zero and probably Black Plague still to come. With Forgotten King and AoS I'll have to livei n a cardboard cave
Has anybod experience with selling off the whole extra baggage, err, exclusuves. that comes with KS board games?
If the game is popular it's easy on ebay (or any of the trade sites) and you should easily get your money back or more
if the game is not as popular (or bombs) it's a lot harder,
Getting yours on sale early (for the region you are in) also helps as there's always a few people desperate to get something they forgot/missed out on, but once they've picked up the stuff from early sellers there's less of a bidding frenzy
If you're reading Lovecraft, I'd wait for the Cthulhu Wars: Onslaught 2 KS. The Others is more modern horror: Clive Barker, survival horror, that sort of thing.
6 Scenarios in the core box. Each scenario has 49 variations depending on which sin is in play and what acolytes they have. There is only ever 1 sin in play in a scenario. 90 minute play time.
The pledge level will be $100 that was confirmed by Eric Lang himself, no great surprise there. The KS base game is unlikely to have all 7 Sins at the start or in the retail set.
This is, like, the 17th survival horror dungeon crawler on KS in as many months. Why does anyone still give a damn about gameplay at this point? Minis only pledge, please, I have no use for another 5 lbs set of tiles and cards.
lord_blackfang wrote: Why does anyone still give a damn about gameplay at this point? Minis only pledge, please, I have no use for another 5 lbs set of tiles and cards.
Because Eric Lang made some games that people liked before, so he's got a bit of a following apparently.
I seriously doubt they'll have a minis only pledge, but it's a CMON project so no doubt the "cost" of the game material will become inconsequential at some point when we're buried in minis.
I'm just curious to see if I can get a bunch of cheap monsters to use for Strange Aeons and Kings of War.
No, but since I have HeroQuest, HeroScape, and Battle Masters, I have plenty of games that use a similar mechanic.
Also, of course, pretty much every dungeoncrawler (not to mention RPG and adventure boardgame) has some sort of "roll dice to hit a target number or number of symbols" mechanic, sometimes with fancy dice, sometimes not.
It's a tired mechanic, if you've been playing since... HeroQuest but if you don't already have a dozen or so games like this in your gaming closet, another one might bring enough ideas to the table to add some novelty.
Fantasy Flight Game's Warhammer Quest card game looks like it's bringing something new to the table, since it looks more like a "puzzle" game where you're optimizing card interaction, rather than positioning figures on the board. There's still dice rolling, so we'll see how Warhammer Quest goes. Likewise, I'd like a closer look at the rules for The Others. I *do* like the Corruption mechanic of The Others: You can gain addition abilities at the cost of reducing your "hit points" (Corruption points).
lord_blackfang wrote: This is, like, the 17th survival horror dungeon crawler on KS in as many months. Why does anyone still give a damn about gameplay at this point? Minis only pledge, please, I have no use for another 5 lbs set of tiles and cards.
There will be no minis only pledge for everything included in the boxed game.
And, like Blood Rage, the game will most likely be very good, coming from Eric Lang.
When will the campaign go live in Europe time? I'm not going to try and get an EB this time, but I'm curious about the way they split it up the "base" game.
PS: Thanks, guys, I'll try to sell most of the SG heroes. They're nice, but too damn many of them! I need *hours* for a single paintjob, each SG basically adds a few days/weeks of hobby time to get through the pile-o-shame stack.
If you don't want the SG's, I've found CMON games at a deep discount once they hit retail. Zombicide: Rue Morgue was 50% off. However, I don't know if that's still a good deal for you after shipping, and, of course, you have to search for sales.
Production miniatures for Pride and Sloth these 2 are pretty much guaranteed to be in the core box. There are 2 variants of the Abominations you can have multiple of these in play where as the Avatar and Controller are limited to a maximum of 1.
The 5 Hell Club miniatures are also confirmed to be in the core box.
Acolytes preview from TGN (9 Acolyte sculpts have been shown so far)
Spoilers due to image size
Since they are Sin’s servants, the Acolytes are granted some powers from these entities, usually bringing a little bit more despair to the table. There are several Acolytes with different abilities for you to choose from, so you can create some cool matches between your Sin and your chosen Acolyte’s power.
Acolytes are the weakest of monsters, but they can be used strategically to hinder the heroes’ movement, or aid a stronger monster in a fight. But what truly sets each Acolyte apart is their unique power, which can be used once per round. When the power is activated, a dead Acolyte can be brought back to the board to join a fight, and each of them influences the game in a different way:
Spoiler:
Nuns were supposed to do good, to be faithful, to spread words of virtue. But not these ones. At least, not anymore. When a Corrupted Nun is summoned to a fight, the Sins player replaces a City Action from that district with a Corruption token.
Spoiler:
Doctors usually are those that fix people up. Those that care, that dedicate their lives to making people feel better. Unless they are trying to kill you or corrupt you instead. When the Doctors are summoned, the current Hero can no longer heal for that round.
Spoiler:
Hobos are the ones that always knew that the end was near. They’ve tried to warn us. But did we listen? Well, I guess nobody did, and now they’ve joined the forces of the apocalypse. Hobos will try to take your stuff, simple as that. You might just find that the weapon or equipment you were counting on to win a fight is suddenly out of your reach until next round.
JohnHwangDD wrote: The Others could have taken any of those slots, esp. the underwhelming B-seiged, but CMoN pushed the Others back in favor of those 3. The Others was claimed to be ready to launch a long time ago, but CMoN didn't launch it. I take that as a sign of low confidence.
Hey... I'm super stoked for B-Sieged, I think it looks like a blast. On topic, though, I could have sworn the kickstarter was launching yesterday while I was at work. I got home and checked right away, only for disappointment. Note to self: Tuesday =/= Thursday.
I'm not decided if I'll be pledging yet, but I'm certainly interested in how this turns out.
B-Seiged and Rum & Bones just don't do anything for me - the B-S monsters are cute, but overly comical to my eyes, while R&B looks like a cartoon game.
I will probably put down a marker tomorrow, to see if the minis justify a full pledge with CMoN's expensive shipping to SoCal.
Part of me thinks it'll be cheaper to buy this during the 2016 Black Friday clearance sales.
Cheaper? Sure. But a lot of the 'fun' minis tend to get included as KS extras, and if you can even get them after the campaign you'll be paying through the nose for anything more than a small handful of them.
(...And really if CMoN SoCal shipping is expensive, try Europe )
Part of me thinks it'll be cheaper to buy this during the 2016 Black Friday clearance sales.
What makes you think it'll be on Black Friday Clearance?
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JohnHwangDD wrote: B-Seiged and Rum & Bones just don't do anything for me - the B-S monsters are cute, but overly comical to my eyes, while R&B looks like a cartoon game.
Bolognesus wrote: Cheaper? Sure. But a lot of the 'fun' minis tend to get included as KS extras, and if you can even get them after the campaign you'll be paying through the nose for anything more than a small handful of them.
(...And really if CMoN SoCal shipping is expensive, try Europe )
That presumes that I want the extras in the first place. For example, I have zero interest in the extra KS-exclusive Zombicide Survivors, so they just sit there. The Black Plague Abominations and accessories were somewhat interesting, but the Survivors were samey "guy with sword" models - completely worthless filler.
Some European points pay less in shipping that I would for SoCal. Looking at extra near-Euro shipping rates vs "free" shipping has really cooled me on CMoN projects.
If you're a casual player, waiting for the base game and expansion to go on sale is the best deal. I've seen Zombicide: Rue Morgue at 50% off plus shipping or sales tax, and Angry Neighbors for $25. The SG's only add marginal gameplay, although they're a great value for the minis -- if you have time to paint them!
Very likely
1 Avatar of Pride
1 Avatar of Sloth
1 Pride Controller
1 Sloth Controller
In but not sure on numbers but probably 5 or 6 of each (the set up pictures for the darkness within Scenario had 5 Abominations in play and another had 6)
Pride Abominations
Sloth Abominations
Even less sure on numbers
Acolytes - there are 9 sculpts shown so far so maybe 18 or even more? these are your basic cannon fodder and you can have multiples of each type in play
plus tiles, tokens (the health and corruption appear to be 3D from the off), dashboards, cards etc.
probably a KS exclusive mini
Thats 45 or so Blood Rage started with 46 but for $75 as opposed to $100.
I've seen conflicting reports from Gencon with one person hearing 2 Sins in the box and another hearing all but 2 but either way with the rest getting added as KS progresses mostly added to the base pledge, I wonder if the pledgelevel will start with a 3rd Sin included but separately boxed. Looking at the numbers above I'm more inclined to think only 2 in the box to start. Remeber there is only ever 1 Sin in play so having multiple or all in the core box doesn't make much sense so they can do a cheaper retail box and sell the rest as expansions. We'll find out one way or another tomorrow.
Solid info has been a bit hard to come by and I haven't bothered the people I normally get news from as I don't like to ask to often and there's other stuff I'd rather know about
If you don't want the SG's, I've found CMON games at a deep discount once they hit retail. Zombicide: Rue Morgue was 50% off. However, I don't know if that's still a good deal for you after shipping, and, of course, you have to search for sales.
Sadly not.
I looked at this huge online discounter site where Americans buy their board games for 50% or so off during sales (forgot the name, it was mentioned on BGG) last year, but shipping was as much as the game itself. Or more. I think 50 $ and 60 for shipping. When the Euro was strong even such shipping cost made buying in the US attractive, bit not anymore. CMON games and stuff like SDE is really expensive in Germany, so KS often isn't that bad a deal compared to retail, especially with OUR shipping rates from CMON
It's just that I'm drowning in stuff. I spent the last two days painting 1.5 minis. They look great with all the new techniques I tried, but even with practice high level painting takes time and I'll never be able to create slap-dap paintjobs. And in all eternity I won't play RnB (or Z:BP) to need another fifty heroes. Monsters, cool. Humans, blergh.
The Others will be my last new game, I told myself last year. I will keep that promise. But for now...bring on the SGs! And the actual campaign, but we all know it'll unlock SGs before we can get the page to work
Bolognesus wrote: Cheaper? Sure. But a lot of the 'fun' minis tend to get included as KS extras, and if you can even get them after the campaign you'll be paying through the nose for anything more than a small handful of them.
(...And really if CMoN SoCal shipping is expensive, try Europe )
That presumes that I want the extras in the first place. For example, I have zero interest in the extra KS-exclusive Zombicide Survivors, so they just sit there. The Black Plague Abominations and accessories were somewhat interesting, but the Survivors were samey "guy with sword" models - completely worthless filler.
Some European points pay less in shipping that I would for SoCal. Looking at extra near-Euro shipping rates vs "free" shipping has really cooled me on CMoN projects.
Heh, funny that. There's a bunch of survivors for ZC:BP I would really like to have but I can't justify getting the entire game. To each their own, I guess.
On the shipping: fair 'nuff. Guess I made too much of an assumption on shipping costs there. (OTOH I'm reasonably sure SoCal residents don't pay import fees/taxes on shipments from elsewhere in the US; I paid nearly 80USD extra on a USD300 bones shipment, for example).
You're right that if the huge bunch of extras don't interest you the games will be cheaper retail than via KS. If that floats your boat, have fun. Or still buy into a ZC project for example and sell the extras if you can be bothered; that's certainly the cheapest option...
Alex C wrote: Anyone have any idea what will be in the core game yet?
Due to how CMoN loves fake SGs to pad their campaigns, we probably won't know for several days, maybe a week, depending on how fast things unlock.
That definitely used to be true but CMoN did not add a single item to either the core set or expansion during the Black Plague campaign and hopefully that's the direction they will be taking in the future.
Alex C wrote: Anyone have any idea what will be in the core game yet?
Due to how CMoN loves fake SGs to pad their campaigns, we probably won't know for several days, maybe a week, depending on how fast things unlock.
That definitely used to be true but CMoN did not add a single item to either the core set or expansion during the Black Plague campaign and hopefully that's the direction they will be taking in the future.
And haven't for some time.
Don't let a good sound byte get in the way of facts. ;-)
I think I guessed 4 Sins in the starter earlier in the thread. I'm NOT going to buy 5 add-on packs, especially not big 40+ dollars ones. Sucks that the Avatar of Sloth is my least favourite one. Lets see what is given in SGs and what not, but blergh. I don't need all 7. I want Gluttony and Wrath. I bet they'll be paid add-ons then
Ah, well, rip me off, if you must, it's my last KS, anyway. More money here might mean I'm not buying Black Plague in the PM (though I want that Abominorat).
I would guess that there will be an expansion box in the higher pledge level which would have the third sin. I suspect we will get 2 of the remaining 4 free as stretch goals with the final 2 being addons.
I counted each Sin like this:
1 Avatar
6 Abominations
1 Controller
= 8 models per Sin.
x5 Sins
= 40 models.
I think we'll need to wait to the end to see whether the base pledge will include all Sins, or if they're breaking them off in an expansion of some sort.
More heroes would be the obvious add, but the game itself is designed around a maximum "pool" of 7 heroes. I guess you could have a different group of heroes in the active pool, but oddly, even the pool is tightly-constructed around 1 Leader 2 shooters, 2 fighters & 2 tanks. And we got a 2nd Leader to swap.
The 7 Sins motif and design around 7s carries into the Acolytes being of 7 factions/flavors. While this kind of limitation is fine for a board game, it limits future expansion to some extent. With 3 flavors of Acolytes in the box (6 models each), that leaves 4 more flavors of Acolytes to release.
Also, it is completely baffling why the Sins total 8 models, while the Acolytes are 6 per faction - the way the game is, it should have been 7 total models per faction... ____
I grabbed a $90 EB, and will let this ride to see whether it will be worth $110 after S&H is added.
Right now, the game looks like this:
8/7 Heroes
5/5 Hell Club members 2/7 Sins (8 models each) 3/7 Acolytes (6 models each)
There are at least the 5 Sins and 4 Acolytes to unlock, plus whatever Hell Club and Heroes are waiting in the wings.
cerealkiller195 wrote: if you didn't get an EB pledge might as well hold back before they scale up the stretch goals after they see how much they made the first few hours...
Indeed.
Funny how they never have the SG list up at the start.
CMoN tend to stick to $25k stretch goals up to $300k then $30k thereafter until closer to $800k or so they don't bump up the stretch goals based on initial funding.
Though it would have been good to also list the next few goals right now too, as surely they'll be met quite quickly.
Would be nice to have the SG list up when the project launches, at least the first few. But they never do, because reasons...
There have been a bunch of examples of ones that posted out way too far and had a little egg on the face when the campaign didn't reach them (or get close).
Is it uncommon to not list all of yours right away?
It's fine to hold back on some SG reveals, but CMoN should have had the first 3 or 4 up on the main page when the KS opened, to get the campaign through the first $200k or so.
Though it would have been good to also list the next few goals right now too, as surely they'll be met quite quickly.
Would be nice to have the SG list up when the project launches, at least the first few. But they never do, because reasons...
There have been a bunch of examples of ones that posted out way too far and had a little egg on the face when the campaign didn't reach them (or get close).
Is it uncommon to not list all of yours right away?
That's why I said "at least the first few".
Unless you think a CMON project won't hit the first few, for some reason
It would certainly help in the initial rush, as they always claim to be snowed under and surprised by the massive amounts of cash they rake in.
But like I said, they never show any SG list to start, which leads to dubious speculation as to why that is...
Is Adrian supposed to be a "not" someone? he looks kinda familiar.
Adrian is Adrian Smith the lead artist
It also looks a bit like Adrian's character, Bones, in his Zombicide Artist box, which I suspect is also based on himself. The second goal is unlocked. Onto Adrian
I am much, much happier with artist self-inserts than pop culture parodies, so this is all to the good! And Adrian Smith has certainly earned it, given his body of work.
I'm not huge on these vanity sculpts. Rick Priestly's using Beyond the Gates of Antares to commission a vanity likeness as a special backer "reward" was particularly egregious.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I'm not huge on these vanity sculpts. Rick Priestly's using Beyond the Gates of Antares to commission a vanity likeness as a special backer "reward" was particularly egregious.
There are lots of things you seem to dislike. Maybe this KS just isn't for you!
Bioptic wrote: I am much, much happier with artist self-inserts than pop culture parodies, so this is all to the good! And Adrian Smith has certainly earned it, given his body of work.
+1. There are very few pop culture thingies I've liked- I prefer the much more direct and directly crediting inserts and cross-overs, unless there's something really special there.
Alpharius wrote: I think we've already learned that there will only ever be one Sin in play at a time, right?
I'm betting a fair few Sins will get added in via 'stretch goal' and maybe some will also be add-ons.
That's correct. Each Sin has a unique playstyle, that can then be augmented by the acolytes you choose. This is further variable with the selected story. It creates a bit of a sandbox where, out of the box, you have 50+ overall combinations for a game.
Bing. Adrian unlocked, lets see what comes next...
I'm liking the Hell Club models, so hopefully we'll get some more of those as optional enemies
The Bank - It is an interesting fact that the Bank is one of the most corrupt places in the city. It has 2 permanent Corruption tokens on it, so Heroes need to be very desperate to venture into this place. However, the Bank has money, and money makes the world go round. Heroes taking City Actions in the Bank can get two new Upgrade cards, as well as call in an Orbital Strike (can you say Pew Pew?).
The Casino - Surprisingly less corrupt than the Bank, the Casino is still a nasty place to enter, with its permanent Corruption token and permanent Nest where monsters may spawn. Still, it might be worth it to take a chance and visit the Casino to get an Extra Turn and a juicy Upgrade card.
The fake SGs would be far less interesting if CMoN's #1 fan hadn't claimed that CMoN didn't do that anymore...
Having thrown down the gauntlet, I think it behooves us to remind him of this fact until such time that he acknowledges that CMoN continues to use such tactics in their KS, never having stopped doing so.
I never understood this "fake stretch goals" comment. It's subjective what you expect and don't expect for your money. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I didn't fund Dungeon Saga because I wanted more for $100, and plenty of BGG'ers were unhappy about Dark Darker Darkest's SG's.
Anyway, I'm free not to pay attention to your comments, either, so that's that.
) Am curious how the game plays as well.
it, I'm replacing all the heroes with Fighting Fungi mushrooms.
