Envihon wrote:
What is the verdict of whether a Comms Relay can be taken by itself because I don't like to take Fortifications but I would take a Comms Relay.

Is the Comms Relay a unit or fortification all by itself? I'm pretty sure it isn't.

 undertow wrote:

 Envihon wrote:
What is the verdict of whether a Comms Relay can be taken by itself because I don't like to take Fortifications but I would take a Comms Relay.

Is the Comms Relay a unit or fortification all by itself? I'm pretty sure it isn't.

Used to be able to do this with "battlefield debris" and just place it for free as terrain.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

Kyck24 wrote:
Quick question. If my lib generates cleansing flame psychic power and is attached to a purifier squad can i still use two cleansing flames for that squad?

No, a unit can only manifest a power once.

Correct, but the answer to his question is yes.

The Librarion and Purifiers are separate "psychic units". They can each cast their own copy of a power.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tSygna wrote:


If that's how you play then the squad has 5 warp charges since Purifiers are ML2.

That is how it works. The squad is a ML2 psyker, and the librarian is a ML3 psyker. For a total of 5 charges from that unit.

Its not take the highest or anything.

Its still a giant rules argument, since the Librarian is an IC, hes considered part of the unit for all intents and purposes. its now one unit. People figure that to mean "no" a librarian can not manifest and the squad cant manifest it both at the same time.

Though my shop leans more towards the BAO rules.

 ductvader wrote:

 undertow wrote:

 Envihon wrote:
What is the verdict of whether a Comms Relay can be taken by itself because I don't like to take Fortifications but I would take a Comms Relay.

Is the Comms Relay a unit or fortification all by itself? I'm pretty sure it isn't.

Used to be able to do this with "battlefield debris" and just place it for free as terrain.

Well that wouldn't work in a tournament, and I'd call it a dick move on general principle.

the cheapest way to get a Comms Relay is still the ADL. Although for only 5 pts more you can get an AV14 Bunker instead and still get the Comms relay.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

Kyck24 wrote:
Quick question. If my lib generates cleansing flame psychic power and is attached to a purifier squad can i still use two cleansing flames for that squad?

No, a unit can only manifest a power once.

Correct, but the answer to his question is yes.

The Librarion and Purifiers are separate "psychic units". They can each cast their own copy of a power.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tSygna wrote:


If that's how you play then the squad has 5 warp charges since Purifiers are ML2.

That is how it works. The squad is a ML2 psyker, and the librarian is a ML3 psyker. For a total of 5 charges from that unit.

Its not take the highest or anything.

Its still a giant rules argument, since the Librarian is an IC, hes considered part of the unit for all intents and purposes. its now one unit. People figure that to mean "no" a librarian can not manifest and the squad cant manifest it both at the same time.

Though my shop leans more towards the BAO rules.

So how many Warp Charges are produced from that Squad?

5 man purifiers and lvl 3 libby? 5

We dont play that the Libby's charges magically disapear when he leaves a unit

A unit is a culmination of however many squads are inside it.

A unit can be composed of 1 to infinite number of squads.

That is false, there is no such thing as a "squad"

 undertow wrote:

 Envihon wrote:
What is the verdict of whether a Comms Relay can be taken by itself because I don't like to take Fortifications but I would take a Comms Relay.

Is the Comms Relay a unit or fortification all by itself? I'm pretty sure it isn't.

From Stronghold Assault "battlefield debris can be purchased as part of a fortification or as a fortification themselves", I would read this to mean that you can just pay the 20 points for the comms relay and deploy it. it will use up your fortification slot but...

This was already discussed thoroughly in YMDC. No, you can't take the relay by itself. Posting from phone, so can't link to that thread right now.

Sonsoftherock wrote:

 undertow wrote:

 Envihon wrote:
What is the verdict of whether a Comms Relay can be taken by itself because I don't like to take Fortifications but I would take a Comms Relay.

Is the Comms Relay a unit or fortification all by itself? I'm pretty sure it isn't.

From Stronghold Assault "battlefield debris can be purchased as part of a fortification or as a fortification themselves", I would read this to mean that you can just pay the 20 points for the comms relay and deploy it. it will use up your fortification slot but...

As Grey Templar said, good luck trying to use this in a tournament, and it's a questionable move any any case.

There was a YMDC thread that actually achieved consensus on this subject:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/615342.page

For those too lazy to click through, everyone eventually agreed that you cannot take a Comms Relay by itself.

 jy2 wrote:
I'm trying to get my paladins to work. Any idea on how best to run a GK army with them?

Well despite this unit going against everything I say is needed to be Meta Contendable...

Analyzing their strengths
-2 wounds
-apothecary
-2 special weapons
-teleport
-2+ armor
-5++

The best way to utilize them would be in...

1. A deepstrike List
or
2. A Gate List where you attach a librarian to each unit of paladins get gate and jump them over the field burning down units or getting in rear armor to shoot down vehicles

How many units?
Maximum number of Paladin squads that I would utilize... 2 units of 5... in addition to 1 terminator squad.
Gong above 3 is just really just too much. You want to get allies and 2 paladin squads as is... will suck up quite a bit of your points as you pay around 300ish+ points per 5 man unit. and that's not including the terminator squad coming in around 200... and that is without taking up an HQ choice either...

They would certainly need back-up of some kind in some mannerism.

Idealistically I personally would go along the lines of allying space marines and take up 2 drop pod marine units with plasma/meltas/gravs etc... and a unit of 10 sternguard combat suqaded inside of a drop pod as well. Finally a storm talon support and with that deepstrike everything utilizing the new special rules for deepstrike with GK and all the drop pods from SM and alpha strike your opponent so hard that they wouldn't be able to recover...

I was making a sample list... but I just didn't care for it... the 2 5 man paladin squads alone take up like 600 points not including a libby for 165 and a terminator for about 200... that's like 1000pts and I just can't believe that those 1000points come anywhere close in comparison to 1000points for the standard Draigostar with 2x Knight Base... Really you have to ask yourself is 2 paladin squads worth the trade for draigo and 2 dreadknights? and say you were to keep draigo base and just add 2 5 man paladin units... I can't support the idea that those 2 units will make back their points even if they do deepstrike in the beginning of the game... their is just too much high str low ap weapons to being roling around being only T4 and with no invisibility support... I just can't...

G.L. with creating a list utilizing 10 paladins though... your going to need some...

Question on teleport homers. Only terminator armour units and personal teleporter units can take advantage of it. So im wondering if i have a librarian in termi armour attached to a purifier squad and i teleport them across the board onto a teleport homer does the entire squad not scatter because the librarian is in termi armour and can utilize the homer or do i scatter?

Kyck24 wrote:
Question on teleport homers. Only terminator armour units and personal teleporter units can take advantage of it. So im wondering if i have a librarian in termi armour attached to a purifier squad and i teleport them across the board onto a teleport homer does the entire squad not scatter because the librarian is in termi armour and can utilize the homer or do i scatter?

It's questionable if Teleport Homer works with Gate of Infinity in general, but in this case it definitely does not work because of the wording in Teleport Homer. "Friendly units compsed entirely of models in Terminator armour and/or models with a personal teleporter do not scatter..."

So since Purifiers are in the unit and they don't have Terminator armour or teleporters, then teleport homer does not work on them.

 BoomWolf wrote:
And it lets your purifiers to sit somewhere safe for the first turn too, it might not be a bad idea.

Worst case scenario, it becomes a retreat location for you. (though you might want to keep something there to prevent enemy from taking it to himself?)

Purifiers should be able to use cleansing flame, an absolutely devastating power.
Not sure if the sit somewhere safe they could ever use it.

"First turn" is a pair of keywords there mate, yaknow-that 50% that they won't get to act first.

 BoomWolf wrote:
"First turn" is a pair of keywords there mate, yaknow-that 50% that they won't get to act first.

Well, if they need to hoof around the board, they might go nowhere.

That's why you have an escape hatch, so they can disembark somewhere far away and get rather far in a single movement action.

 BoomWolf wrote:
That's why you have an escape hatch, so they can disembark somewhere far away and get rather far in a single movement action.

That's a good idea.
I'd always give the Purifers a transport.

Yeah, the escape hatch was something that could help. Smart opponents will know what's coming very quickly, but it does give a decent measure of board control.

You can disembark 18" away from your deployment line that way with 2 combat squads, and nova up to 9", giving you a very scary 27" bubble around your fortification that's a "hot zone" (quite literally).

Another option is to just dump your 2 mandatory servitors from codex: SW in there to unlock droppods. At least they get to man the 2 heavy bolter you can shoot forwards that way? (not sure if both can mount in the same building though, need to look that up). They can also man the comms relay you put on top. At least you'll get something out of the HBs of the bastion too.

I was thinking along these lines for a 2000pts amry

Grey Knights - Nemesis Strike Force
LoW: Kaldor Draigo - (245pts)
No Slot: Techmarine - Conversion beamer - (110pts)
HQ: Librarian - ML3, Cuirass of Sacrifice, Daemon hammer - (160pts)
Elites: Purifier Squad (5 man) - 2x Psilencer, Rhino - (180pts)
Troops: Terminator Squad (10 man) - 2x Psycannon, 1x Falchion, 1x Halberd, Justicar with Warding Stave - (381pts)
Heavy Support: 2x Nemesis Dreadknight - 2x (Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis greatsword and power fist, Personal teleporter) - (450pts)

Allied detachment - Space Marines: Iron Knights (Iron Hands Chapter Tactics)
HQ: Librarian - ML2 - (90pts)
Troops: Scout Squad (5 man) - Missile Launcher, 4x Sniper Rifle, Camo Cloaks, Teleport Homer - (94pts)
Heavy Support: Centurion Devastator Squad (3 man) - Missile Launcher, Omniscope, 3x Twin-linked Lascannon - (290pts)
2000 pts total

My idea is to put the GK techie in the Centurion squad along with their libby, hopefully roll invisability, and blast anything with a hint of armor on it.
The Snipers use the old infiltrate+homing beacon to let the GK libby, the GKT's and Draigo DS where I want them in the first turn. Also they'll try to be useful after that and pick of chars and such with those boomsticks.
I'll Combat Squad (Errata p3) the GKT's with 5 + Draigo to Gate and wreck havoc where needed, and keep 5 with 2x psycannons with the GK libby as boom boom vortex of Doooooom squad.
The Dread Knights... well, they'll DS too, although they wont benefit from the Homing Beacon (since they're not termies?), and they'll probably have fun with the psycannons + incinerator + teleporter.
Finally, the Purifiers in the poor ol' Rhino. Either Draigo, the Centurions, or the 2 Dread Knights keep most of the attention away from them, and they can happily roll away and be useful somewhere with Purifying Flame and/or the Psilencers; or, they get instablasted by a soddy 5 man tactical unit with a missile launcher... hopefully not.

I know Draigo is heavy pointwise, but he is a pure monster in CC with that Titanblade of his, and with a sure Gate to go where he's needed and be successful killing stuff when he comes out, it'll give a lot of goldstars in my book.
Optionally I could go with another GK libby ML3 (145pts) + Techmarine with conversion beamer (110pts) if I know there'll be heavy mechanized stuff.

Thoughts, tacos and pointers anyone?

Question, why are you referencing an outdated Errata for combat squads when our book has the most up to date version of that rule?

Edit: on an only slightly related note, I snagged an Aquila Strongpoint for 50% off.

That was just because it says the same thing as our codex, but is avaliable as a link on the interweb for easy access.

Vayashi wrote:
I was thinking along these lines for a 2000pts amry

Grey Knights - Nemesis Strike Force
LoW: Kaldor Draigo - (245pts)
No Slot: Techmarine - Conversion beamer - (110pts)
HQ: Librarian - ML3, Cuirass of Sacrifice, Daemon hammer - (160pts)
Elites: Purifier Squad (5 man) - 2x Psilencer, Rhino - (180pts)
Troops: Terminator Squad (10 man) - 2x Psycannon, 1x Falchion, 1x Halberd, Justicar with Warding Stave - (381pts)
Heavy Support: 2x Nemesis Dreadknight - 2x (Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis greatsword and power fist, Personal teleporter) - (450pts)

Allied detachment - Space Marines: Iron Knights (Iron Hands Chapter Tactics)
HQ: Librarian - ML2 - (90pts)
Troops: Scout Squad (5 man) - Missile Launcher, 4x Sniper Rifle, Camo Cloaks, Teleport Homer - (94pts)
Heavy Support: Centurion Devastator Squad (3 man) - Missile Launcher, Omniscope, 3x Twin-linked Lascannon - (290pts)
2000 pts total

My idea is to put the GK techie in the Centurion squad along with their libby, hopefully roll invisability, and blast anything with a hint of armor on it.
The Snipers use the old infiltrate+homing beacon to let the GK libby, the GKT's and Draigo DS where I want them in the first turn. Also they'll try to be useful after that and pick of chars and such with those boomsticks.
I'll Combat Squad (Errata p3) the GKT's with 5 + Draigo to Gate and wreck havoc where needed, and keep 5 with 2x psycannons with the GK libby as boom boom vortex of Doooooom squad.
The Dread Knights... well, they'll DS too, although they wont benefit from the Homing Beacon (since they're not termies?), and they'll probably have fun with the psycannons + incinerator + teleporter.
Finally, the Purifiers in the poor ol' Rhino. Either Draigo, the Centurions, or the 2 Dread Knights keep most of the attention away from them, and they can happily roll away and be useful somewhere with Purifying Flame and/or the Psilencers; or, they get instablasted by a soddy 5 man tactical unit with a missile launcher... hopefully not.

I know Draigo is heavy pointwise, but he is a pure monster in CC with that Titanblade of his, and with a sure Gate to go where he's needed and be successful killing stuff when he comes out, it'll give a lot of goldstars in my book.
Optionally I could go with another GK libby ML3 (145pts) + Techmarine with conversion beamer (110pts) if I know there'll be heavy mechanized stuff

The army lacks numbers.
In first turn, I'd shoot down your Rhino so that the Purifiers will have to a walk.
Moreover, the Centurions hoof around the board.
In this way, I just need to concentrate on Draigo and 5 Termies using GOI and two NDK's.
At this point level, the enemy should have enough fire power or cc capability to decimate them quickly.

No no, this army can work like a charm. Numbers aren't an issue if you ask me.

Just a few more adjustment. IF you are allowed to use FW, swap the librarian to Severin Loth (who gets to choose his spells) from the red scorpion chapter.

Maybe dump the techmarine to upgrade to that guy. If not, dump him to spice up your centurion group and run draigo with him. GoI, 2 dreadknights and 10 terminators coming in should be enough threat saturation.

It'll still be win big-Lose big depending on your matchup though.

I can see the points of the Centurions slogging around, maybe switch the techmarine and purifier squad for a Stormraven for the Centurions and Terminator Captain with Lightning claws to add too the GKTs with Draigo and ML3 libby, making a sledge force of it.

I do have another setup with more numbers, but that one depends a bit too much on the spell rolls.

The Magic Army 2000 pts, 2 detachments of NSF
LoW: Kaldor Draigo
HQ: 2x Librarian - ML3, Daemon hammer, 1x Cuirass of Sacrifice on the Warlord
Elites: Purifier Squad (10 man) - 4x Incinerator, Melta bombs
Troops: Terminator Squad (10 man) - 2x Incinerator, 4x Falchions, 3x Halberd, Justicar with Warding Stave, Melta bombs
Heavy Support: 2x Nemesis Dreadknight - 2x (Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis greatsword and power fist, Personal teleporter)

HQ: Librarian - ML3, Warding Stave
Troops: Terminator Squad (5 man) - 1x Psycannon, Justicar with Warding Stave, Melta bombs

This is 17 warpcharges before the roll, and 3x ML3 librarians to pound out the result, along with Draigo to wreck just about anything with the 10 man GKT squad of flailing swords and incinerators.
Too bad it really needs GoI and Vortex of Doom so the libbys can jump around with the purifiers and actually be useful.

Thing is I really can't stand the thought of bringing out the same square box of setup that everyone else is using, not because it's OP awesome, but simple because our codex is so damn barren.
And no, there'll be no Inquisitor with a unit full of space-monkeys with lascannons in my rooster.

No Vayashi the Centurions are attached to Draigo for that fast GoI.

Lets them teleport out of melee if necessary, lets them reposition anywhere essentially. Just give them Grav-guns instead and your set with a mobile deathstar.

That is an awfully expensive GoI though, especially when Draigo will loose his CC with them. Wouldn't it be better to use the libbys for that, and hopefully get one of them with GoI. If none of them get it, then Draigo is the option ofc

That's one way of handeling it.

Draigo as a support character to that unit isn't supercrazy though. He also does a mighty fine job of tanking the incoming heavy hits. Draigo along with a source for invis makes that unit nigh unstoppable to all but a culexus assassin.

I am about to enter a 1500 point local tournament and I came up with three different lists using what I have: Grey Knights, Imperial Fists and an Imperial Knight. I just wanted to see what everyone thought was the best use of units with 1500:

The First List combines all three elements:
Grey Knights:
HQ:
Librarian, ML3, Storm Bolter

Troops:
5 Terminators, Psycannon, 4 Halberds, 1 Hammer

Lord of War:
Kaldor Draigo

Imperial Fists - Sentinels of Terra:
HQ:
Librarian, ML2, Bolter

Troops:
5 Tactical Marines, Meltagun
Drop Pod

Heavy Support:
3 Centurions, 3 Grav Cannons with Hurricane Bolters

Imperial Knight Errant

My list consisting of just Grey Knights and Imperial Fists, exchanges out the Imperial Knight to get a Nemsis Dreadknight with a Personal Telelporter, Heavy Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator and a Nemesis Greatsword and adds in a 5 Interceptor Squad with a psycannon with Halberds. It also adds 5 more Tactical Marines to the Imperial Fist Tactical squad.

My last list is just Grey Knights and the Imperial Knight.

Grey Knights
HQ:
Librarian, ML3, Storm Bolter

Troops:
10 Terminators, 2 Psycannons, 8 Halberds, 2Hammers
5 GKSS, 4 Halberds, Incinerator

Heavy Support:
Nemesis Dreadknight, Personal Teleport, Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword
Nemesis Dreadknight, Personal Teleport, Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword

Imperial Knight Errant

I am really all the fence on this one and looking for some general opinions. I feel like trying to cram all three elements into a 1500 list is the weakest of them all but I can't decide with I want to ally my GK with Imperial Fists or with the Imperial Knight. What do you guys think?

The Errant is a perfect fit for GK, and two NDK are more than enough to force hard choices on your opponent, which increases the survivability of all three big boys.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The Errant is a perfect fit for GK, and two NDK are more than enough to force hard choices on your opponent, which increases the survivability of all three big boys.

SJ

That is what I was thinking as well. Draigo and Grav Cents are intimidating but with only being able to bring one DK with that force, I feel like it is a bit lesser and won't have the anti-armor I exactly need. But the Errant brings that wonderful Thermal Cannon and his Chain sword while the DKs can clean up else where. The only advantage the Imperil Fists have is the I bring one more squad of Tactical Marines giving that army 20 troops where the Imperial Knight list only gives 15. Also, the DraigoCenturion Star relies a lot on Psychic Powers to do what they do. The more and more I think about it, the Imperial Knight is the better ally for a 1500 list.

Two Things:
1] I started my Grey Knight's Synergy Thread
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/616084.page;jsessionid=CB63131E7100BD50203281310109C179

2] A thought on the TechMarine that might work well:
TechMarine, 124 pts (Frag, Krak & Psyk-out Grenades; Artificer Armor; Master-Craft Servo-harness; Nemesis Falchions; Digital Weapons; The Fury of Demos)
This give you a base 2 Attacks, with a Re-Roll To Hit with the Servo Harness, a Re-Roll To Wound with all of your Melee Weapons and a Mastercraft 36" 3 Shot Storm Bolter.

Doesn't the GK book just count a servo harness as two special weapons already...

It no longer grants...an extra attack at I1...so flachions would only serve to give you a bonus you already have. Go halberd. 2 attacks base and attack twice with harness or halberd.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have been throwing the deimos on him too.

 ductvader wrote:
Doesn't the GK book just count a servo harness as two special weapons already...

It does not say anything about it counting it as two.

It no longer grants...an extra attack at I1...so flachions would only serve to give you a bonus you already have. Go halberd. 2 attacks base and attack twice with harness or halberd.

It is listed as a Specialist Weapon: Servo-Arm [Sx2, AP1, Melee, Specialist Weapon]
Servo-Harness does say it has a Pair in the Fluff section, great something to argue about with others.
2 Base Attacks with the Specialist Weapons or One with the Halberd (You can't get an extra Attack as it is a Two-Handed Weapon)

I have been throwing the deimos on him too.

I like the look at that option if you are not going with the Conversion Beamer.

This thread is really helping me shape the way I should play my GK army. Ideally I would like a pure GK army but I may look into a knight errant, SW, or centurions from IF.

I just bought some more units which were probably desperately needed for my all infantry army so I'll just list me entire army and maybe hope to get some advice as to what I can do?

17 terminator models
15 PAGK (5 purifiers, 5 interceptors, 5 unassembled purifiers)
1 techmarine
1 Castellan Crowe
1 dreadnought
1 NDK
1 LR (thinking redeemer but may go vanilla LR for the LC)


I'm thinking of this for my default go to army

HQ-
ML3 librarian, liber, stave/hammer/halberd
ML3 librarian, appropriate relic, stave/hammer/halberd

Elite-
5-man paladin squad w/ 2x psycnannon, and apothecary
5-man purifier squad, 2x incinerators
5-man purifier squad, 2x incinerators

Troops-
5-man terminators, 1 psycannon
5-man terminators, 1 psycannon

Heavy Support-
1 NDK, psycannon, heavy incinerator, sword, teleporter
1 Land raider

~1850


With this army I basically plan to shunt punch the enemy. With the liber librarian I would hope I get goi and sanctuary to stick the libby with the paladins and the other libby would pick prescience and telepathy powers (ideally invisible and shriek?) would go with a termy squad. The purifers I think I would stick into the LR and give them the necessary mobility. Though I would be open to putting the liber libby with the purifiers for goi instead of one the termies. I essentially plan to focus fire the NDK and paladin squad to any heavy hitters, and general disarray with the other units. The purifiers in the LR would be good for a move up, disembark, shoot, nova, and assault. I don't see much use for the techmarine, Crowe, or the dreadnought in my army except maybe another guaranteed sanctuary?

If I needed to play at a lower pt level (very likely) I would drop a purifier squad and terminator squad.

Tips, advice, constructive criticism?

So I am curious, has anyone had any luck with using a brother captain for grand master along side a ML3 lib? I plan on using a GM, Hammer and the cuirass. The GM would focus on taking powers from Divination while the Lib would roll on Demonology.

So here is a problem for us to fix, how is the best way for Grey Knights to take on Dark Eldar?

Deep Strike right on top of their vehicles and blow them up.

also, incinerators right into their raiders and Venoms works.

 Jancoran wrote:
Deep Strike right on top of their vehicles and blow them up.

also, incinerators right into their raiders and Venoms works.

Deep Striking that close and you aren't afraid of their poison weapons? What do flamer type weapons do to open topped vehicles? I haven't faced many of them.

D6 hits per flamer to the guys inside. There might not BE anyone left inside if you hit em with enough AP 4 flameage. And if the flamer/Stormbolters explodes the vehicle, all the more casualties!

 Jancoran wrote:
D6 hits per flamer to the guys inside. There might not BE anyone left inside if you hit em with enough AP 4 flameage. And if the flamer/Stormbolters explodes the vehicle, all the more casualties!

I challenged a DE player recently and I have been wondering if it was a good idea because he has a lot of counters to my list but this boosted my confidence a good amount.

 EmperorsChampion wrote:
So I am curious, has anyone had any luck with using a brother captain for grand master along side a ML3 lib? I plan on using a GM, Hammer and the cuirass. The GM would focus on taking powers from Divination while the Lib would roll on Demonology.

I did this and it worked very well. The GM had prescience, misfortune, sanctuary (rolled a 6 for warlord trait), and the soul glaive, while the libby had goi, psychic shirek, cleansing falme, and invisibility (liber). I stuck the libby with purifiers and the GM with paladins and apothecary. With sanctuary and FNP, the GM tanked all shots and with prescience and misfortune it was a TL paladin squad with all wounds resolved at AP2. My friend's tau army did not have a good time. FW and PT were flamed/nova'd to death and the GM/paladin squad hunted down higher armor targets.

Man, a couple Dreadknights with Incinerator zipping right next to a line of Raiders and Venoms sounds... titillating...

Excuse me, I must go contemplate this tactic...

 Grey Templar wrote:
Man, a couple Dreadknights with Incinerator zipping right next to a line of Raiders and Venoms sounds... titillating...

Excuse me, I must go contemplate this tactic...

This is my main tactic combined with my Imperial Knight bearing down on them. But the Dreadknights are vulnerable to poison fire.

Meh, at least we have 2+ armor. And poison is still only 4+.

But they get a lot of shots, though I'm suspecting infantry Splinter Cannons will be getting the Psycannon treatment and becoming salvo

And for insult to injury it will be Salvo 1/2

 Envihon wrote:
So here is a problem for us to fix, how is the best way for Grey Knights to take on Dark Eldar?

Played against a DE player the other week and I roasted his boats and troops inside. With our S6 flamer and D6 hits on the units embarked he didn't do well. I think he under estimated my GK since of the low model count. Perhaps that was his downfall.

 FinkleLord wrote:

 Envihon wrote:
So here is a problem for us to fix, how is the best way for Grey Knights to take on Dark Eldar?

Played against a DE player the other week and I roasted his boats and troops inside. With our S6 flamer and D6 hits on the units embarked he didn't do well. I think he under estimated my GK since of the low model count. Perhaps that was his downfall.

What was the list that you took against him? I am considering taking the list that has the DraigoCentStar to see how it does but I doubt that Grav will help much and was considering taking a more GK heavy list.

 Envihon wrote:

 FinkleLord wrote:

 Envihon wrote:
So here is a problem for us to fix, how is the best way for Grey Knights to take on Dark Eldar?

Played against a DE player the other week and I roasted his boats and troops inside. With our S6 flamer and D6 hits on the units embarked he didn't do well. I think he under estimated my GK since of the low model count. Perhaps that was his downfall.

What was the list that you took against him? I am considering taking the list that has the DraigoCentStar to see how it does but I doubt that Grav will help much and was considering taking a more GK heavy list.

Something like:

Libby
-Lvl3

Draigo

Terminator Squad
-x4 Falchions
-Hammer
-Psycannon
(I had either 15 of these or 10, don't really remember)

Interceptor Squad x2
-Incinerator

Dreadknight x2
-Heavy Incinerator
-Heavy Psycannon
-PT
-Sword

Something like this lol I don't keep my lists after making them so I don't really remember.

 FinkleLord wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 FinkleLord wrote:

 Envihon wrote:
So here is a problem for us to fix, how is the best way for Grey Knights to take on Dark Eldar?

Played against a DE player the other week and I roasted his boats and troops inside. With our S6 flamer and D6 hits on the units embarked he didn't do well. I think he under estimated my GK since of the low model count. Perhaps that was his downfall.

What was the list that you took against him? I am considering taking the list that has the DraigoCentStar to see how it does but I doubt that Grav will help much and was considering taking a more GK heavy list.

Something like:

Libby
-Lvl3

Draigo

Terminator Squad
-x4 Falchions
-Hammer
-Psycannon
(I had either 15 of these or 10, don't really remember)

Interceptor Squad x2
-Incinerator

Dreadknight x2
-Heavy Incinerator
-Heavy Psycannon
-PT
-Sword

Something like this lol I don't keep my lists after making them so I don't really remember.

Oh that is enough for me to get an idea and we run similar enough lists to give me confidence in my own list. I usually take two Dreadknights so he is about to get a rude awakening.

 Envihon wrote:

 FinkleLord wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 FinkleLord wrote:

 Envihon wrote:
So here is a problem for us to fix, how is the best way for Grey Knights to take on Dark Eldar?

Played against a DE player the other week and I roasted his boats and troops inside. With our S6 flamer and D6 hits on the units embarked he didn't do well. I think he under estimated my GK since of the low model count. Perhaps that was his downfall.

What was the list that you took against him? I am considering taking the list that has the DraigoCentStar to see how it does but I doubt that Grav will help much and was considering taking a more GK heavy list.

Something like:

Libby
-Lvl3

Draigo

Terminator Squad
-x4 Falchions
-Hammer
-Psycannon
(I had either 15 of these or 10, don't really remember)

Interceptor Squad x2
-Incinerator

Dreadknight x2
-Heavy Incinerator
-Heavy Psycannon
-PT
-Sword

Something like this lol I don't keep my lists after making them so I don't really remember.

Oh that is enough for me to get an idea and we run similar enough lists to give me confidence in my own list. I usually take two Dreadknights so he is about to get a rude awakening.

Also note that this was my first run with the new codex so I kinda threw all the new stuff in the list lol

Finkle thats pretty much my list as well. Except I have halberds on the everyone and I run maxed Interceptor Squad and drop some termies to make up for it.

Quickjager wrote:
Finkle thats pretty much my list as well. Except I have halberds on the everyone and I run maxed Interceptor Squad and drop some termies to make up for it.

I've played lists similar to what I posted and (not to brag) I have not lost. Probably just my meta and probably them not expecting me to play so aggressively with the new codex.

I'm trying to squeeze in some purifiers and run/test them in a few lists, but Interceptors are my new found love.

Halberds are meh for me because I play a lot of Nids, IG and DE so the strength doesn't matter to much now that hammerhand is +2S. I've been going for falchions because I know I will be outnumbered in CC (play nid horde A LOT, and the DE loves CC, talking 30+ wyches and talos' 3-4 normally) so I try to get as much attacks off as possible.

Always to keep in mind, play the objective!

 FinkleLord wrote:

Quickjager wrote:
Finkle thats pretty much my list as well. Except I have halberds on the everyone and I run maxed Interceptor Squad and drop some termies to make up for it.

I've played lists similar to what I posted and (not to brag) I have not lost. Probably just my meta and probably them not expecting me to play so aggressively with the new codex.

I'm trying to squeeze in some purifiers and run/test them in a few lists, but Interceptors are my new found love.

Halberds are meh for me because I play a lot of Nids, IG and DE so the strength doesn't matter to much now that hammerhand is +2S. I've been going for falchions because I know I will be outnumbered in CC (play nid horde A LOT, and the DE loves CC, talking 30+ wyches and talos' 3-4 normally) so I try to get as much attacks off as possible.

Always to keep in mind, play the objective!

Something I think people forget is that unless playing Purge the Alien, there is a point to most missions and with deep striking and shunting, GKs have gotten a lot better in that department.

 FinkleLord wrote:

Quickjager wrote:
Finkle thats pretty much my list as well. Except I have halberds on the everyone and I run maxed Interceptor Squad and drop some termies to make up for it.

I've played lists similar to what I posted and (not to brag) I have not lost. Probably just my meta and probably them not expecting me to play so aggressively with the new codex.

I'm trying to squeeze in some purifiers and run/test them in a few lists, but Interceptors are my new found love.

Halberds are meh for me because I play a lot of Nids, IG and DE so the strength doesn't matter to much now that hammerhand is +2S. I've been going for falchions because I know I will be outnumbered in CC (play nid horde A LOT, and the DE loves CC, talking 30+ wyches and talos' 3-4 normally) so I try to get as much attacks off as possible.

Always to keep in mind, play the objective!

I play against CSM players, they love their plague marines, so making sure I take out enough with my higher I is kinda important. Flamers reserved for his cultist and any other baddies he summons, and the Wall of Death rule keeps most hordes from bum-rushing me too hard.

Quickjager wrote:

 FinkleLord wrote:

Quickjager wrote:
Finkle thats pretty much my list as well. Except I have halberds on the everyone and I run maxed Interceptor Squad and drop some termies to make up for it.

I've played lists similar to what I posted and (not to brag) I have not lost. Probably just my meta and probably them not expecting me to play so aggressively with the new codex.

I'm trying to squeeze in some purifiers and run/test them in a few lists, but Interceptors are my new found love.

Halberds are meh for me because I play a lot of Nids, IG and DE so the strength doesn't matter to much now that hammerhand is +2S. I've been going for falchions because I know I will be outnumbered in CC (play nid horde A LOT, and the DE loves CC, talking 30+ wyches and talos' 3-4 normally) so I try to get as much attacks off as possible.

Always to keep in mind, play the objective!

I play against CSM players, they love their plague marines, so making sure I take out enough with my higher I is kinda important. Flamers reserved for his cultist and any other baddies he summons, and the Wall of Death rule keeps most hordes from bum-rushing me too hard.

Don't get my started on CSM lol we have a girl who plays very aggressive Heldrake and plague marines and I could never win in 6th against, but now 7th is here and I am taking a lot more terminators than strikes I think I should be okay to go against her.

 FinkleLord wrote:

Quickjager wrote:

 FinkleLord wrote:

Quickjager wrote:
Finkle thats pretty much my list as well. Except I have halberds on the everyone and I run maxed Interceptor Squad and drop some termies to make up for it.

I've played lists similar to what I posted and (not to brag) I have not lost. Probably just my meta and probably them not expecting me to play so aggressively with the new codex.

I'm trying to squeeze in some purifiers and run/test them in a few lists, but Interceptors are my new found love.

Halberds are meh for me because I play a lot of Nids, IG and DE so the strength doesn't matter to much now that hammerhand is +2S. I've been going for falchions because I know I will be outnumbered in CC (play nid horde A LOT, and the DE loves CC, talking 30+ wyches and talos' 3-4 normally) so I try to get as much attacks off as possible.

Always to keep in mind, play the objective!

I play against CSM players, they love their plague marines, so making sure I take out enough with my higher I is kinda important. Flamers reserved for his cultist and any other baddies he summons, and the Wall of Death rule keeps most hordes from bum-rushing me too hard.

Don't get my started on CSM lol we have a girl who plays very aggressive Heldrake and plague marines and I could never win in 6th against, but now 7th is here and I am taking a lot more terminators than strikes I think I should be okay to go against her.

Yea CSM probably will get much more manageable in this edition for GK, termies as the main troop choice really will make that Heldrake less scary.

Quickjager wrote:

 FinkleLord wrote:

Quickjager wrote:

 FinkleLord wrote:

Quickjager wrote:
Finkle thats pretty much my list as well. Except I have halberds on the everyone and I run maxed Interceptor Squad and drop some termies to make up for it.

I've played lists similar to what I posted and (not to brag) I have not lost. Probably just my meta and probably them not expecting me to play so aggressively with the new codex.

I'm trying to squeeze in some purifiers and run/test them in a few lists, but Interceptors are my new found love.

Halberds are meh for me because I play a lot of Nids, IG and DE so the strength doesn't matter to much now that hammerhand is +2S. I've been going for falchions because I know I will be outnumbered in CC (play nid horde A LOT, and the DE loves CC, talking 30+ wyches and talos' 3-4 normally) so I try to get as much attacks off as possible.

Always to keep in mind, play the objective!

I play against CSM players, they love their plague marines, so making sure I take out enough with my higher I is kinda important. Flamers reserved for his cultist and any other baddies he summons, and the Wall of Death rule keeps most hordes from bum-rushing me too hard.

Don't get my started on CSM lol we have a girl who plays very aggressive Heldrake and plague marines and I could never win in 6th against, but now 7th is here and I am taking a lot more terminators than strikes I think I should be okay to go against her.

Yea CSM probably will get much more manageable in this edition for GK, termies as the main troop choice really will make that Heldrake less scary.

Agreed. Only thing to worry about are those pesky plague marines and daemon princes, but that's nothing a little...force, can't handle.

 Envihon wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
D6 hits per flamer to the guys inside. There might not BE anyone left inside if you hit em with enough AP 4 flameage. And if the flamer/Stormbolters explodes the vehicle, all the more casualties!

I challenged a DE player recently and I have been wondering if it was a good idea because he has a lot of counters to my list but this boosted my confidence a good amount.

DE can be decent against Marine armies.
Make sure that he cannot fly circles around your army.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
D6 hits per flamer to the guys inside. There might not BE anyone left inside if you hit em with enough AP 4 flameage. And if the flamer/Stormbolters explodes the vehicle, all the more casualties!

I challenged a DE player recently and I have been wondering if it was a good idea because he has a lot of counters to my list but this boosted my confidence a good amount.

DE can be decent against Marine armies.
Make sure that he cannot fly circles around your army.

What do you mean and how does one stop that?

GK have a huge advantage over DE do to Shunt and near-army-wide Deep Strike. Unlike most opponents, where the goal is to focus down one enemy unit at a time, GK should be going MSU and engaging as many DE units as possible right out of the gate. A weaken DE unit this turn is a dead DE unit next turn. All of their advantages are neutralized once the gap is closed, while their open-topped Raiders work against them versus our heavy use of Incinerators. Our 2+/5++ AP3 dominance in CC is perfect for mopping up what's left on a turn 2 charge. Frankly, DE need to worry about GK, not the other way around. Or at least until their new Codex comes out and they lose a bunch of units and uniqueness.

SJ

Has anyone else had amazing success with purifiers DS through a SW drop pod! I have 2 10 man units that have been coming in behind the enemy turn 1 and 2.... casting cleansing flame has devastated vehicles and units alike. It has been phenomenal!

azactaylor wrote:
Has anyone else had amazing success with purifiers DS through a SW drop pod! I have 2 10 man units that have been coming in behind the enemy turn 1 and 2.... casting cleansing flame has devastated vehicles and units alike. It has been phenomenal!

When you cast cleansing flame on a vehicle, do you use the AV of the side closest the purifier casting it? Also, I assume it takes out vehicles with an AV no more than 11 unless I'm missing something? I can't wait for my land raider, survivability has been an issue with my purifiers.

Sixcyl wrote:

azactaylor wrote:
Has anyone else had amazing success with purifiers DS through a SW drop pod! I have 2 10 man units that have been coming in behind the enemy turn 1 and 2.... casting cleansing flame has devastated vehicles and units alike. It has been phenomenal!

When you cast cleansing flame on a vehicle, do you use the AV of the side closest the purifier casting it? Also, I assume it takes out vehicles with an AV no more than 11 unless I'm missing something? I can't wait for my land raider, survivability has been an issue with my purifiers.

I would assume the closest facing because nova's are treated like a shooting attack. Don't the the BRB handy on me.

azactaylor wrote:
Has anyone else had amazing success with purifiers DS through a SW drop pod! I have 2 10 man units that have been coming in behind the enemy turn 1 and 2.... casting cleansing flame has devastated vehicles and units alike. It has been phenomenal!

Illegal.

 Jancoran wrote:

azactaylor wrote:
Has anyone else had amazing success with purifiers DS through a SW drop pod! I have 2 10 man units that have been coming in behind the enemy turn 1 and 2.... casting cleansing flame has devastated vehicles and units alike. It has been phenomenal!

Illegal.

How?

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

azactaylor wrote:
Has anyone else had amazing success with purifiers DS through a SW drop pod! I have 2 10 man units that have been coming in behind the enemy turn 1 and 2.... casting cleansing flame has devastated vehicles and units alike. It has been phenomenal!

Illegal.

How?

It's not as far as I know. But I'd rather not this turn into a YMDC thread lol. There has to be a thread on this point in YMDC already right? Has to be. No need to rehash it in here...

 Jancoran wrote:

azactaylor wrote:
Has anyone else had amazing success with purifiers DS through a SW drop pod! I have 2 10 man units that have been coming in behind the enemy turn 1 and 2.... casting cleansing flame has devastated vehicles and units alike. It has been phenomenal!

Illegal.

Which is the illegal part?

There isn't anything illegal about that strat...

 Jancoran wrote:

azactaylor wrote:
Has anyone else had amazing success with purifiers DS through a SW drop pod! I have 2 10 man units that have been coming in behind the enemy turn 1 and 2.... casting cleansing flame has devastated vehicles and units alike. It has been phenomenal!

Illegal.

Not if the Drop Pod was purchased as a Fast Attack.

 Envihon wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

azactaylor wrote:
Has anyone else had amazing success with purifiers DS through a SW drop pod! I have 2 10 man units that have been coming in behind the enemy turn 1 and 2.... casting cleansing flame has devastated vehicles and units alike. It has been phenomenal!

Illegal.

Which is the illegal part?

The pod is a dedicated transport for Space wolves, is it not? Has there been a change in the codex? I haven't read it, but unless it is its own slot on the FOC...

 Jancoran wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

azactaylor wrote:
Has anyone else had amazing success with purifiers DS through a SW drop pod! I have 2 10 man units that have been coming in behind the enemy turn 1 and 2.... casting cleansing flame has devastated vehicles and units alike. It has been phenomenal!

Illegal.

Which is the illegal part?

The pod is a dedicated transport for Space wolves, is it not? Has there been a change in the codex? I haven't read it, but unless it is its own slot on the FOC...

It does, it's FAST.

 Jancoran wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

azactaylor wrote:
Has anyone else had amazing success with purifiers DS through a SW drop pod! I have 2 10 man units that have been coming in behind the enemy turn 1 and 2.... casting cleansing flame has devastated vehicles and units alike. It has been phenomenal!

Illegal.

Which is the illegal part?

The pod is a dedicated transport for Space wolves, is it not? Has there been a change in the codex? I haven't read it, but unless
it is its own slot on the FOC...

Its legal if the Pod is taken from the FA section in the SW codex.

 Envihon wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
D6 hits per flamer to the guys inside. There might not BE anyone left inside if you hit em with enough AP 4 flameage. And if the flamer/Stormbolters explodes the vehicle, all the more casualties!

I challenged a DE player recently and I have been wondering if it was a good idea because he has a lot of counters to my list but this boosted my confidence a good amount.

DE can be decent against Marine armies.
Make sure that he cannot fly circles around your army.

What do you mean and how does one stop that?

Well, DE have long range fire power which is also mobile, e.g., Venons, Ravagers, Raiders.
A GK army usually relies on psycannons which are shorter ranged. Without mobility such an army gets trapped.

 Jancoran wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

azactaylor wrote:
Has anyone else had amazing success with purifiers DS through a SW drop pod! I have 2 10 man units that have been coming in behind the enemy turn 1 and 2.... casting cleansing flame has devastated vehicles and units alike. It has been phenomenal!

Illegal.

Which is the illegal part?

The pod is a dedicated transport for Space wolves, is it not? Has there been a change in the codex? I haven't read it, but unless it is its own slot on the FOC...

Yes, but its also a Fast Attack choice. Like every other DT in every book release since 7th came out.

DTs in newer dexes are Fast Attack choices which can be purchased by certain units without taking up a slot.

 Jancoran wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

azactaylor wrote:
Has anyone else had amazing success with purifiers DS through a SW drop pod! I have 2 10 man units that have been coming in behind the enemy turn 1 and 2.... casting cleansing flame has devastated vehicles and units alike. It has been phenomenal!

Illegal.

Which is the illegal part?

The pod is a dedicated transport for Space wolves, is it not? Has there been a change in the codex? I haven't read it, but unless it is its own slot on the FOC...

Yes there is a big change with all of the 7th edition codex's.
Ork: Trucks are now Fast Attack
Space Wolves: Rhinos, Razorbacks and Drop Pods are now Fast Attack
Grey Knights: Rhinos and Razorback are now Fast Attack

 Jancoran wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

azactaylor wrote:
Has anyone else had amazing success with purifiers DS through a SW drop pod! I have 2 10 man units that have been coming in behind the enemy turn 1 and 2.... casting cleansing flame has devastated vehicles and units alike. It has been phenomenal!

Illegal.

Which is the illegal part?

The pod is a dedicated transport for Space wolves, is it not? Has there been a change in the codex? I haven't read it, but unless it is its own slot on the FOC...

Already stated, but Space Wolves can take empty pods as Fast Attack choices in the new dex

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

azactaylor wrote:
Has anyone else had amazing success with purifiers DS through a SW drop pod! I have 2 10 man units that have been coming in behind the enemy turn 1 and 2.... casting cleansing flame has devastated vehicles and units alike. It has been phenomenal!

Illegal.

Which is the illegal part?

The pod is a dedicated transport for Space wolves, is it not? Has there been a change in the codex? I haven't read it, but unless it is its own slot on the FOC...

Already stated, but Space Wolves can take empty pods as Fast Attack choices in the new dex

This is good news for GK.
Purifiers are the best unit in the GK codex to benefit from this kind of transport.

Its also the only way Purifiers can Deep Strike.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Its also the only way Purifiers can Deep Strike.

An alternative would be a small Purgator squad with four psycannons.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Its also the only way Purifiers can Deep Strike.

An alternative would be a small Purgator squad with four psycannons.

I have been think that too, that or Incinerators.

Why would you use Purgs with Incinerators? 5 man Purifier squad could do what they do with Cleansing flame.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Its also the only way Purifiers can Deep Strike.

An alternative would be a small Purgator squad with four psycannons.

I have been think that too, that or Incinerators.

Or aim for endurance with 4 Psycannons...I've been having fun with relentless fnp purifiers.

 ductvader wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Its also the only way Purifiers can Deep Strike.

An alternative would be a small Purgator squad with four psycannons.

I have been think that too, that or Incinerators.

Or aim for endurance with 4 Psycannons...I've been having fun with relentless fnp purifiers.

Endurance is a biomancy power isnt it? GK psykers cant roll on that table

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Its also the only way Purifiers can Deep Strike.

An alternative would be a small Purgator squad with four psycannons.

I have been think that too, that or Incinerators.

Or aim for endurance with 4 Psycannons...I've been having fun with relentless fnp purifiers.

Endurance is a biomancy power isnt it? GK psykers cant roll on that table

Well, you're taking SWs for pods or ultramarines or so on and so on.

I recently added some sentinels of terra (with libby) to my gk as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also found biomacy to be a nice source of supplemental ap2 shooting.

Yea if you take a psyker from another dex that works

 ductvader wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Its also the only way Purifiers can Deep Strike.

An alternative would be a small Purgator squad with four psycannons.

I have been think that too, that or Incinerators.

Or aim for endurance with 4 Psycannons...I've been having fun with relentless fnp purifiers.

Endurance is a biomancy power isnt it? GK psykers cant roll on that table

Well, you're taking SWs for pods or ultramarines or so on and so on.

I recently added some sentinels of terra (with libby) to my gk as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also found biomacy to be a nice source of supplemental ap2 shooting.

I use Sentinels of Terra for my allies as well, what are you using to deliver the Purifiers? Right now I have Draigo, a GK Libby, and a Imperial Fist Libby all go with a squad of Grav Centurions. Hmm...that just gave me another idea on delivering the Purifiers, what about taking Draigo for guranteed Gate? Have a ML3 Libby take the book to get another roll on Sanctic and roll all of your powers on Sanctic to try for Gate as well. If the Libby gets Gate split the two to have 5 Purifiers go with Draigo and the others with the Libby, Gate both in at the same time. And if the Libby doesn't get Gate, keep them one squad. It hurts the combo a little bit but hopefully it won't happen that much?

 Grey Templar wrote:


DTs in newer dexes are Fast Attack choices which can be purchased by certain units without taking up a slot.

EVERY? which dex's have them in fast attack slots as of now?

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

azactaylor wrote:
Has anyone else had amazing success with purifiers DS through a SW drop pod! I have 2 10 man units that have been coming in behind the enemy turn 1 and 2.... casting cleansing flame has devastated vehicles and units alike. It has been phenomenal!

Illegal.

Which is the illegal part?

The pod is a dedicated transport for Space wolves, is it not? Has there been a change in the codex? I haven't read it, but unless it is its own slot on the FOC...

Yes there is a big change with all of the 7th edition codex's.
Ork: Trucks are now Fast Attack
Space Wolves: Rhinos, Razorbacks and Drop Pods are now Fast Attack
Grey Knights: Rhinos and Razorback are now Fast Attack

^Here

 Jancoran wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:


DTs in newer dexes are Fast Attack choices which can be purchased by certain units without taking up a slot.

EVERY? which dex's have them in fast attack slots as of now?

@Envihon

I don't always "deliver" the purifiers...sometimes I just let them walk around with their effective 30" range relentless bubble.

I generally have enough Terminators to keep eyes off my purifiers.

 ductvader wrote:
@Envihon

I don't always "deliver" the purifiers...sometimes I just let them walk around with their effective 30" range relentless bubble.

I generally have enough Terminators to keep eyes off my purifiers.

How many Terminators do you use to keep that tactic alive? Walking troops just make me wary of whether they survive or not which is the reason why I like Deep Striking and Shunting so much.

17-30 and/or I mix in the strikes, interceptors, and customary dreadknights

 Jancoran wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:


DTs in newer dexes are Fast Attack choices which can be purchased by certain units without taking up a slot.

EVERY? which dex's have them in fast attack slots as of now?

Orks (Trukks) , Space Wolves (Drop Pods, Rhinos and Razorbacks) and GK (Rhinos and Razorbacks) I think.

I am so going to dominate 7th Edition.

 Jancoran wrote:

I am so going to dominate 7th Edition.

As long as no one else thinks of this you'll be good. Lol

they might think of it but my play style is incredibly ideally suited to the use of such things. This tool in MY tool bag will be... I just cannot wait to get me some PODS!

What are everyone's view on falchions?

Theyre okay. If the meta uses blobs frequently, falchions are pretty great for ensuring you mill through the enemy. Otherwiseid prefer halberds.

 Jancoran wrote:
Theyre okay. If the meta uses blobs frequently, falchions are pretty great for ensuring you mill through the enemy. Otherwiseid prefer halberds.

That's my thinking, I face blobs often so I tend to use them more.

I like Falchions on my Justicar.

In a challenge I usually prefer more S6 than less S7...given hammerhand.

I'm building my first Dreadknight at the moment and I'm currently magnetizing all of the weapons. Is it worth doing so for the Gatling Psilencer? I'm not super interesting in theoretical 'it sucks' comments. I'd like to hear from anyone that's actually used it in a game or two.

 FinkleLord wrote:
What are everyone's view on falchions?

Been having decent succes with them on shunting interceptors who go for the squishy bits of an army. Those units can pull off some decent turn 2 charges on weak targets/vehicles.

Yes...its a great weapon.

Not always the one you want...but do it up for the long term.

 undertow wrote:
I'm building my first Dreadknight at the moment and I'm currently magnetizing all of the weapons. Is it worth doing so for the Gatling Psilencer? I'm not super interesting in theoretical 'it sucks' comments. I'd like to hear from anyone that's actually used it in a game or two.

I don't use it personally but in this edition it got considerably powerful when they added Force to it, the next problem being that it is S4 but you get 12 shots to try and land just one that will insta-kill the unit. The problem with it is that the model also gets their armor save so you will probably need those 12 shots to do it. Honestly, with the ability to fire the Psycannon in two modes, it is the more versatile option. But I have never used the Psilencer.

Force activated Gatling Psilencer has a 36% to kill a T6, Sv 3+ model (which is most things you care about getting a gun instant death on).

Side benefit, you only roll once to activate all of your Force weapons, guns and melee in the same roll.

Draw your own conclusions.

My conclusion is that you should always have 2 guns on a Dreadknight: Heavy Psycannon and one of the other two.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Force activated Gatling Psilencer has a 36% to kill a T6, Sv 3+ model (which is most things you care about getting a gun instant death on).

Side benefit, you only roll once to activate all of your Force weapons, guns and melee in the same roll.

Draw your own conclusions.

My conclusion is that you should always have 2 guns on a Dreadknight: Heavy Psycannon and one of the other two.

The Psycannon and the Incinerator work so well together, even though the Psilencer is a ranged force weapon, the power of the Psycannon and the Incinerator is amazing. It virtually becomes able to take on most things by itself.

 Envihon wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Force activated Gatling Psilencer has a 36% to kill a T6, Sv 3+ model (which is most things you care about getting a gun instant death on).

Side benefit, you only roll once to activate all of your Force weapons, guns and melee in the same roll.

Draw your own conclusions.

My conclusion is that you should always have 2 guns on a Dreadknight: Heavy Psycannon and one of the other two.

The Psycannon and the Incinerator work so well together, even though the Psilencer is a ranged force weapon, the power of the Psycannon and the Incinerator is amazing. It virtually becomes able to take on most things by itself.

Agreed. I don't know how many times I have wiped squads with both of these weapons. And that delicious torrent...

 FinkleLord wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Force activated Gatling Psilencer has a 36% to kill a T6, Sv 3+ model (which is most things you care about getting a gun instant death on).

Side benefit, you only roll once to activate all of your Force weapons, guns and melee in the same roll.

Draw your own conclusions.

My conclusion is that you should always have 2 guns on a Dreadknight: Heavy Psycannon and one of the other two.

The Psycannon and the Incinerator work so well together, even though the Psilencer is a ranged force weapon, the power of the Psycannon and the Incinerator is amazing. It virtually becomes able to take on most things by itself.

Agreed. I don't know how many times I have wiped squads with both of these weapons. And that delicious torrent...

That and it is S6 too! Oh yeah, it has Soul Blaze now. Oh, so I flamed that open topped vehicle...well not only did I kill a few of them but they are now on fire too.

 Envihon wrote:

 FinkleLord wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Force activated Gatling Psilencer has a 36% to kill a T6, Sv 3+ model (which is most things you care about getting a gun instant death on).

Side benefit, you only roll once to activate all of your Force weapons, guns and melee in the same roll.

Draw your own conclusions.

My conclusion is that you should always have 2 guns on a Dreadknight: Heavy Psycannon and one of the other two.

The Psycannon and the Incinerator work so well together, even though the Psilencer is a ranged force weapon, the power of the Psycannon and the Incinerator is amazing. It virtually becomes able to take on most things by itself.

Agreed. I don't know how many times I have wiped squads with both of these weapons. And that delicious torrent...

That and it is S6 too! Oh yeah, it has Soul Blaze now. Oh, so I flamed that open topped vehicle...well not only did I kill a few of them but they are now on fire too.

And with the combined fire power of purifiers with cleansing flame makes for some nasty combos.

Hey... so if anyone has advice how to kill the Tau if they decide to play with their experimental rules again.....

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/X/Tau-XV109.pdf

I think I won't play. It's too depressing.

Yeah, thats kinda ridiculous. Although a Dreadknight out threats it while being cheaper.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yeah, thats kinda ridiculous. Although a Dreadknight out threats it while being cheaper.

Am I correct in reading it can do a AP2, 2 template, torrent shooting attack? At the cost of getting hot and rolling on a 2+ armor save

Also, what is the wargear that lets Tau units overwatch for each other, is it under supporting wargear like I think it is.

Essential, it has a limited threat range but in that threat range, it's going to hurt. At the same time it also has ways of getting around. Force weapons will be the best choice, especially as someone said, with a Dreadknight, you should be able to do it but it is going to possibly cost you unless you take a Psilencer and can land a shot on it with Force charged.

That definitely needs to be a more expensive model but maybe because it only has a threat of roughly 12" it comes into that. If that thing tried to go after my Knight, my Knight would also wreck it depending on who went first and such.

Yeah, one lucky wound with the Psilincer will pop it. But its a long shot.

Although if you managed to cast misfortune on the Riptide first, you'd actually have a very good shot at killing it. On average you cause one wound with a Psilincer, and if that shot is rending you'll bypass that 2+ armor and its only a 5+ invuln away from death.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yeah, one lucky wound with the Psilincer will pop it. But its a long shot.

Although if you managed to cast misfortune on the Riptide first, you'd actually have a very good shot at killing it. On average you cause one wound with a Psilincer, and if that shot is rending you'll bypass that 2+ armor and its only a 5+ invuln away from death.

Ooh, that's a nice combo. 18 rending shots per Dreadknight, 12 of which can Force kill. I may have to explore this further...

Regarding Heavy Incinerator vs Gatling Psilencer, It seems that it totally depends on what you're shooting.

Against large, single-model targets like MCs or Vehicles, the incinerator will always give you only one hit, usually on a 3+ or better, making it effectively useless. You'll cause a wound on a 4+ (Toughness 6 unless it's a Daemon Prince, and those are usually Swooping and thus immune to Templates), and most of those models are sporting a 3+ or better. So unless my math is wrong, you're looking at 16% or so (guestimate) chance to cause a single wound against a T6, 3+ armor target, less than 10% if 2+ armor.

The Psilencer will generally hit 8 times with BS4, statistically causing at least one wound against T6. At this point, before the save is rolled, you're already at a 100% (unless you roll really bad) to cause that Instant Death wound, where the Incinerator is only going to give you a single, normal wound against that target 50% of the time. And like I said, most of the high toughness models you really want to kill have a 3+ or better, the AP4 of the Incinerator might as well be AP-. Against a T6 3+ target, that's a 100% to cause a wound, and 1/3 chance to wound, causing ID. I think the Psilencer wins against multi-wound models with Toughness 7 or less.

Against high AV targets (13+), both are useless unless you can get rear armor shots, and here we see the same issues. You'll get one glance on a 4+ if rear armor is 10 with the Incinerator. You'll get 8 hits and 1 glance (baring horrible rolls of course) with the Psilencer. If rear AV is 11 or 12, the Psilencer is useless, but the Incinerator is almost useless, with something like at 33% chance or worse to cause a single glance.

The Incinerator will shine against target with 4+ or worse armor of course, but against a competent opponent, the number of wounds will be minimized by spreading those models out.

I'm still building and painting my GK army, but I think I'm going to go with the Gatling Psilencer most of the time, but make it modular with magnets. I've glued the Psicannon to the right arm, as I can't see myself not fielding it.

 undertow wrote:
Regarding Heavy Incinerator vs Gatling Psilencer, It seems that it totally depends on what you're shooting.

Against large, single-model targets like MCs or Vehicles, the incinerator will always give you only one hit, usually on a 3+ or better, making it effectively useless. You'll cause a wound on a 4+ (Toughness 6 unless it's a Daemon Prince, and those are usually Swooping and thus immune to Templates), and most of those models are sporting a 3+ or better. So unless my math is wrong, you're looking at 16% or so (guestimate) chance to cause a single wound against a T6, 3+ armor target, less than 10% if 2+ armor.

The Psilencer will generally hit 8 times with BS4, statistically causing at least one wound against T6. At this point, before the save is rolled, you're already at a 100% (unless you roll really bad) to cause that Instant Death wound, where the Incinerator is only going to give you a single, normal wound against that target 50% of the time. And like I said, most of the high toughness models you really want to kill have a 3+ or better, the AP4 of the Incinerator might as well be AP-. Against a T6 3+ target, that's a 100% to cause a wound, and 1/3 chance to wound, causing ID. I think the Psilencer wins against multi-wound models with Toughness 7 or less.

Against high AV targets (13+), both are useless unless you can get rear armor shots, and here we see the same issues. You'll get one glance on a 4+ if rear armor is 10 with the Incinerator. You'll get 8 hits and 1 glance (baring horrible rolls of course) with the Psilencer. If rear AV is 11 or 12, the Psilencer is useless, but the Incinerator is almost useless, with something like at 33% chance or worse to cause a single glance.

The Incinerator will shine against target with 4+ or worse armor of course, but against a competent opponent, the number of wounds will be minimized by spreading those models out.

I'm still building and painting my GK army, but I think I'm going to go with the Gatling Psilencer most of the time, but make it modular with magnets. I've glued the Psicannon to the right arm, as I can't see myself not fielding it.

You forgot to add in the fact that the Incinerator adds Soul Blaze on to a target that it wounds or a unit that it wounds. For me, the Psycannon/Incinerator makes the Dreadknight more versatile being able to take on Hordes, vehicles or armored infantry. I have yet gotten into a situation where my Incinerator has been useless. I have been able to glance and pen multiple vehicles at once with the torrent that the Incinerator comes with but I always know that my main damage is going to come from my Psycannon so my Incinerator does a better job with the higher strength and AP4. The Psilencer does have 12 shots but that is crappy when those infantry units still get their save and multi-wound targets are able to resist it more. The Incinerator takes away a lot of armor for anyone except for MEQ and ignores cover which if you are facing Eldar or Dark Eldar means that they can't Jink to save themselves from the fire and with most of their armor being 10 or 11 that means you probably will at least glance it. That is just my opinion. I just feel comfortable covering all my bases with the Psycannon and the Incinerator especially now that the Incinerator has Soul Blaze.

So i've been trying to figure out a way to add purifiers to my list but I have no way of transporting them into the middle of the fight. Unless I go with a LRC/LRR. Perhaps stormraven?

 EmperorsChampion wrote:
So i've been trying to figure out a way to add purifiers to my list but I have no way of transporting them into the middle of the fight. Unless I go with a LRC/LRR. Perhaps stormraven?

Rhino and Razorbacks are always options too. Stormraven will allow you to basically deep strike them though but they wouldn't be able to assault until Turn 3 unless you slow to a hover and let them out but even then that is Turn 3. Land Raider is the best option if you want to take advantage of that assault ramp with a pretty good protection for them.

 Envihon wrote:

 EmperorsChampion wrote:
So i've been trying to figure out a way to add purifiers to my list but I have no way of transporting them into the middle of the fight. Unless I go with a LRC/LRR. Perhaps stormraven?

Rhino and Razorbacks are always options too. Stormraven will allow you to basically deep strike them though but they wouldn't be able to assault until Turn 3 unless you slow to a hover and let them out but even then that is Turn 3. Land Raider is the best option if you want to take advantage of that assault ramp with a pretty good protection for them.

I think i'm going to go back to using a land raider. I like the idea of a stormraven, but...that seems too much as a mid game/end game move. I need something to force the enemy from advancing too quickly into my backfield with everything dropping on the first turn. Plans are to split up a ten man squad and drop the nova whenever they can. Also...Using a rhino with two combat squads and having both units cast out of the hatch. Is that an option?

 EmperorsChampion wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 EmperorsChampion wrote:
So i've been trying to figure out a way to add purifiers to my list but I have no way of transporting them into the middle of the fight. Unless I go with a LRC/LRR. Perhaps stormraven?

Rhino and Razorbacks are always options too. Stormraven will allow you to basically deep strike them though but they wouldn't be able to assault until Turn 3 unless you slow to a hover and let them out but even then that is Turn 3. Land Raider is the best option if you want to take advantage of that assault ramp with a pretty good protection for them.

I think i'm going to go back to using a land raider. I like the idea of a stormraven, but...that seems too much as a mid game/end game move. I need something to force the enemy from advancing too quickly into my backfield with everything dropping on the first turn. Plans are to split up a ten man squad and drop the nova whenever they can. Also...Using a rhino with two combat squads and having both units cast out of the hatch. Is that an option?

It is an option, and a good one, if your rhino survives getting the Purifiers that close.

 Homeskillet wrote:

 EmperorsChampion wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 EmperorsChampion wrote:
So i've been trying to figure out a way to add purifiers to my list but I have no way of transporting them into the middle of the fight. Unless I go with a LRC/LRR. Perhaps stormraven?

Rhino and Razorbacks are always options too. Stormraven will allow you to basically deep strike them though but they wouldn't be able to assault until Turn 3 unless you slow to a hover and let them out but even then that is Turn 3. Land Raider is the best option if you want to take advantage of that assault ramp with a pretty good protection for them.

I think i'm going to go back to using a land raider. I like the idea of a stormraven, but...that seems too much as a mid game/end game move. I need something to force the enemy from advancing too quickly into my backfield with everything dropping on the first turn. Plans are to split up a ten man squad and drop the nova whenever they can. Also...Using a rhino with two combat squads and having both units cast out of the hatch. Is that an option?

It is an option, and a good one, if your rhino survives getting the Purifiers that close.

I like to think there will be more targets of higher value in their face that they need to deal with. At least that is what I hope...

Unless you also take a landing pad...

Is it just me or is Soul Blaze useless? 50% of the time I finally achieve lighting a unit of fire, the fire goes out before doing any damage. The other 50% results in a mere d3 hits before having to pass another 50% check to see if it continues. I have yet to see it kill a MEQ.

I still prefer the Incinerator over the psilencer but I'm not going to look at Soul Blaze as a deciding factor between the two.

Zimko wrote:
Is it just me or is Soul Blaze useless? 50% of the time I finally achieve lighting a unit of fire, the fire goes out before doing any damage. The other 50% results in a mere d3 hits before having to pass another 50% check to see if it continues. I have yet to see it kill a MEQ.

I still prefer the Incinerator over the psilencer but I'm not going to look at Soul Blaze as a deciding factor between the two.

Most people conceder it useless because of the 50/50 thing, but it could hang around for a long time inflicting lots of damage to lightly armored mob.
I don't look at it being a winning lottery tick, to me it is more like finding a $5 bill of the ground after spending $20. on flaming shots.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Zimko wrote:
Is it just me or is Soul Blaze useless? 50% of the time I finally achieve lighting a unit of fire, the fire goes out before doing any damage. The other 50% results in a mere d3 hits before having to pass another 50% check to see if it continues. I have yet to see it kill a MEQ.

I still prefer the Incinerator over the psilencer but I'm not going to look at Soul Blaze as a deciding factor between the two.

Most people conceder it useless because of the 50/50 thing, but it could hang around for a long time inflicting lots of damage to lightly armored mob.
I don't look at it being a winning lottery tick, to me it is more like finding a $5 bill of the ground after spending $20. on flaming shots.

I would agree with this as well. There is a reason why people who like to play Thousand Sons love Soul Blaze. It isn't going to be anything that is going to be devastating to a MEQ army but you will like when it does get a couple and any lightly armored infantry, it wrecks havoc. It is an addition to the army that helps but wasn't needed. Going against Orks and Tyranids though, you will probably love the mechanic.

I have only killed a few MEQ with soul blaze... I can see it tilting a close game possibly, but it will never be the deciding factor.

Used it on orks the other day, it was hilarious! He obviously rolled poorly, but on average killed 2 orks at the end of each of our turns. They were still dying while we were in assault... haha

 Envihon wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Zimko wrote:
Is it just me or is Soul Blaze useless? 50% of the time I finally achieve lighting a unit of fire, the fire goes out before doing any damage. The other 50% results in a mere d3 hits before having to pass another 50% check to see if it continues. I have yet to see it kill a MEQ.

I still prefer the Incinerator over the psilencer but I'm not going to look at Soul Blaze as a deciding factor between the two.

Most people conceder it useless because of the 50/50 thing, but it could hang around for a long time inflicting lots of damage to lightly armored mob.
I don't look at it being a winning lottery tick, to me it is more like finding a $5 bill of the ground after spending $20. on flaming shots.

I would agree with this as well. There is a reason why people who like to play Thousand Sons love Soul Blaze. It isn't going to be anything that is going to be devastating to a MEQ army but you will like when it does get a couple and any lightly armored infantry, it wrecks havoc. It is an addition to the army that helps but wasn't needed. Going against Orks and Tyranids though, you will probably love the mechanic.

I think even with Soul Blaze, I'd prefer to use the Psilencer, but my meta tends to run MC heavy.

Psilencer is starting to look more and more useful, and if a lucky force shot makes it way through on a MC or something it would have mad its points back right there. I think I would only use it against armies that use a ton of MC.

I've only just seen this thread, had a skim through the posts but didn't see what the best tactic with psychic powers is.

How do the new powers measure up?
I've not played my GKs yet, but The sanctic primaris seems useless against any army other than daemons or Eldar Avatars. Do the other randomised powers redeem this?

apologies if it's been discussed already.

The primaris is the only "bad spell" in there... The rest is pretty good, but yeah, a bit random.

Gate: awesome

Hammerhand: very meh if most of your units have it base...

Sanctuary: Great if running a lot of terminators

Purge soul: nifty enough to remove an annoying powerfist out of a squad, but nothing spectacular.

Cleansing flame: pure pain for the opponent

Vortex of doom: risky, but pure pain again for your opponent.

So with only one "bad" and one "meh" spell in there for GKs, it's a good table to roll on. Especially if you can get 4/6 with a lvl 3 libby with the book.

But the most reliable way to get powers, is still through SCs for GoI and sanctuary at least. Purifiers with cleansing flame can be pretty nifty too. Sanctuary base on DKs is also insane.

What I plan on doing for psychic powers is have the ML3 lib roll on sanctic table and if I take a GM, have him roll on a different table.