re: Eurogames-- Eurogames don't have nice minis in my experience, and I'd say a eurogame plus a bunch of minis would run around that cost, so it's mostly a question of do you like the idea of minis in your eurogames- if so, great for you; if not, then it may not be worth it to you.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I just can't believe that CMoN is doing alternate sculpts so early.
@Ronin - if you think it is overpriced, don't back. Wait for retail, pay less, and just know that you'll miss out on ALL of the exclusives.
Which so far is the Wolfman, his card, and the 2 plastic tokens. Not really all that much to shout home about at this point if you are talking about exclusives...
I'm really only in this for the minis EDIT: and the art by Adrian Smith, since the gameplay seems kind of meh based on what I've seen.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Yeah, the minis are vastly better than the underlying game.
If CMoN did a minis & art thing, I'm sure they'd get a lot of takers.
Which makes me wonder, why aren't these companies just making these awesome minis? I know Tre has been doing it for quite some time, and I went in on his Orcs Kickstarter a while ago and it turned out excellent.
But there seems to be a market for this kind of stuff - I recently picked up a Freeband for Freeblades by DGS, and the sculpting is quite excellent. Nice thing is, I can use those minis across several different games.
Just thoughts.
The new stretch goals are a bit better, and I really hope they consider adding an art book (PDF or print, either would be awesome).
Which makes me wonder, why aren't these companies just making these awesome minis? I know Tre has been doing it for quite some time, and I went in on his Orcs Kickstarter a while ago and it turned out excellent.
Thank you VERY much for your enthusiasm and support but to answer your question just look at the difference between the way my kickstarters fund and the way pretty much any KS with a game does. THAT is why. The minis might be the goodie that rewards the backer but it is definitely NOT the point that sells the product.
CMoN certainly has proven they can deliver these projects and they have done all the leg work up front on this one. This is a great product with a proven team. That alone has a lot to do with it's success.
Not to mention distributors barely even give you the time of day if you do not have a game or license to attach to your product line. At least that has been my experience anyway.
So while the minis are what people really want at the end of the day, the game is what gets people to seek out the boxes, and the boxes convince the people to pull the item off the shelf and pay for it at the register.
Art is great and marketing is better but the game is usually the justification for the actual purchase. It moves the purchase from being some really cool minis to a fruitful activity.
Alpharius wrote: Pledging $75 will get you a lot of miniatures and some really, really cool art!
$75 for just the 'big monsters' available *right now* seems like a good deal to me...
Not by KS standards.
4 big + 2 small in the base set
+4 small unlocked
+1 big on deck
= 5 big + 6 small monsters.
$7 per mini may well be a good deal by GW standards (tho I think there was a lot of whining when GW started selling elite boxes of 10 models for $50), but it's not a good deal by KS standards.
Right now, it's worth about $20 for the big and $12 for the small - $32, not $75 (+$10 S&H).
Simply looking at a price per model equation ignores the quality of the model variable. The price per model of this quality is a fantastic value, in my opinion.
I hope they don`t add a stretch goal where they simply double the number of basic models in the game. I don`t want to paint hordes of models for a board game.
I am only interested in the Monsters, and on a fair dollar basis, they are worth $32-ish.
That $32 number is inflated, given how a typical CMoN KS value proposition is "100 minis for $100". Compare with Robotech, and it's roughly $2 per mini. At $3 per mini, I think I fairly assessed the mini sculpt quality.
I am only interested in the Monsters, and on a fair dollar basis, they are worth $32-ish.
That $32 number is inflated, given how a typical CMoN KS value proposition is "100 minis for $100". Compare with Robotech, and it's roughly $2 per mini. At $3 per mini, I think I fairly assessed the mini sculpt quality.
They're not selling a miniatures game.
They're selling a board game.
That's the major difference here. They're not proposing to sell the miniatures separately.
Though I think it has been suggested before, I think it is almost certain that they will not do a miniatures only pledge, as the campaign looks to be set up as an "easy" campaign fulfillment wise, so they can be done with it quickly and on to their next Kickstarter.
Because of this, I also think paid add-ons might also be avoided.
Currently, I am loving the sculpts, but already have way to many board games I don't get to play nearly enough, so I will likely only back if there is a lot more added or a wider variety of sculpts unlocked for each faction, so that it would be worth it from a miniatures standpoint even if I only rarely played the game.
I am only interested in the Monsters, and on a fair dollar basis, they are worth $32-ish.
That $32 number is inflated, given how a typical CMoN KS value proposition is "100 minis for $100". Compare with Robotech, and it's roughly $2 per mini. At $3 per mini, I think I fairly assessed the mini sculpt quality.
They're not selling a miniatures game.
They're selling a board game.
That's the major difference here. They're not proposing to sell the miniatures separately.
A lot of board games sell extra minis for painting. A lot of board games sell miniatures packs. CMoN is infamous for adding extra minis to the pile.
I am very well aware that CMoN is packaging a set nice of miniatures as a boring board game that has ZERO inherent need for miniatures. Every single miniature in this game could be replaced with a printed token, or perhaps a colored wooden disc of varying diameter / height. Or, if getting really fancy, colored plastic "coins" with the strength embossed on them. If going 3-D, it could be cones. It wouldn't be as pretty, but it would play exactly the same.
CMoN is missing out on additional sales by not having a miniatures-only pledge.
How much savings would you actually get with just a minis only pledge?
The minis have got to be 90 percent of the production cost.
I don't think CMON would have interest in doing a minis only option or "a la carte" for a board game that happens to have minis to attract another group of people. Seems like that option would just slow down shipping/production.
Judging by the 2 week campaign they just want to get it funded, produced and out the door in one swoop.
If they were going a boutique miniature route or doing faction boxes for a skirmish or wargame I could see..
But for a board game, I would be just as happy with card board standees
The minis might be most of the production cost, only because of the initial tooling cost. Once that is paid for, the incremental production cost is quite low.
Note also that a fair chunk of cost is notionally development cost of rules, along with camera-ready artwork and the sculpting, plus playtesting / balancing.
They mentioned that the game is balanced to a certain amount of pieces, and would not be throwing in extra dudes just because.
I wish they would - they look lovely and they'd go well in a lot of other games, and if they went big enough I could even see going for 2x or more of the base set. As it stands, probably one set.
Love the minis, love Vikings, love Eric Lang's games...
I'm in.
Unless I BLOOOOODRAAAAAAAGEQUITTT partway through obvs.
But I think Eric would need to show up at my house personally, at the head of a raiding party, and burn down my hall and loot all my minis, to make me cancel my pledge at this point.
The march of doom continues inexorably, claiming yet another Stretch Goal. The exclusive Mystic Troll has been unlocked for all backers!
The next Stretch Goal will complete the fleshing out of the games' tokens:
If we reach 280k, all backers will get the Kickstarter Exclusive sculpted First Player token. With this token, you'll never forget who's supposed to start the round.
But let's not stop here. The Stretch Goal after that will truly make the ground shake!
If we hit 310k, all backers will get the Kickstarter Exclusive Mountain Giant! This fearsome monster comes with its figure and card to add to your Age 1 deck. The Mountain Giant is a true behemoth, but since it counts as a Leader, it can Invade for free, and even benefit from Leader Upgrades you add to your clan!
Please note that the pictures of the miniatures shown here of the Mountain Giant, and the Mystic Troll from the previous Stretch Goal, are from the actual master sculptures, not the plastic reproductions.
For the glory!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Token is, like the other tokens, pretty lousy.
But hell yeah that giant is awesome
Kickstarter uses Amazon's payment system to process payments.
Kickstarter no longer uses Amazon payments you now enter your card card details directly to your account and it's charged directly to your card ( using Stripe)
Yep they aren't tooled yet so they have shown the sculpts in black and white (you can see the skulls are a different colour as Jason cast a load up in resin for this project) if it has a black base it's a master/sculpt, grey is a production miniature.
In case anyone was wondering the expected MSRP on the base game is $80
Undead_Love-Machine wrote: It's interesting that there is a disclaimer about how the image is of a master and not the plastic version.
The Conan campaign by Monolith showed beautiful resin with the promise that "they will look awesome in plastic as well", here we've seen most of the starting content in plastic, and it's looking pretty damn spiffy. It makes all the difference in the world I think. So far I'm pretty impressed by Blood Rage, this last troll and the giant look great, and knowing how good the other big monsters turned out in plastic inspires confidence.
"This guy who has two ravens on his shoulders, a mighty spear and who miiight be modelled after Odin himself? Yeah, he's a grunt and you get 8, wait, 4 of him. Four little All-Fathers for you."
Weird stuff.
Regarding add-ons or late SGs, people are hoping for a fifth clan, but what could a fifth clan's theme even be? The only other fitting European "animals" I can think of would be eagles and dragons, the latter being pretty much the Serpent clan already. Maybe boars, but those aren't predators or mythological (even though they're tough bastards). "I'm from Clan Badger" doesn't sound very heroic or intimidating, so that won't be it, either. Lynx clan?
I wish they would have done sculpts of the various Norse Gods for use as the tokens instead of the lack luster tokens they have come up with so far. The miniatures are great over all, but the tokens are mediocre at best.
The game allows them to get the minis into distribution easily and will help those minis sell at retail more easily as well. Without the game the minis are a novelty and that limits their possible market share......As odd as that is it is true.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And the Giant's head is too large for it's body. It loses the sense of scale that shoudl be obvious.
The Conan campaign by Monolith showed beautiful resin with the promise that "they will look awesome in plastic as well", here we've seen most of the starting content in plastic, and it's looking pretty damn spiffy. It makes all the difference in the world I think. So far I'm pretty impressed by Blood Rage, this last troll and the giant look great, and knowing how good the other big monsters turned out in plastic inspires confidence.
The minis will all be coming from the same place, so I don't think its inappropriate to state that if you're comfortable with what you're seeing here, you're probably going to be happy with what you'll get with Conan.
I think a few of us tried to mention that in the Conan thread, to no avail......
--I'm also fine with the toll head. I'm okay with some things being stylized. It was actually one of the major appeals for me with all the Rackham Tir-Na-Bor and Mid-Nor dorfs.
I like the new troll sculpt. The head is big, but I still think it looks good.
And for what it's worth, personally, I think $75 is a great deal for the models alone. I think the sculpts are on par with GW quality and compared to GW prices model for model $75 is pretty cheap, and will be even cheaper online when it hits retail. I'm already thinking of using the models for a viking chaos warrior type of army for WFB if they don't destroy the game in the next version.
Alex C wrote: There's art of warriors from each clan, with possible Ram and Boar clans included.
Thanks. Using looots of zoom on my phone I can spot a boar emblem on a shield in a pic in the "Story" section, where can I find the Ram clan? Boars are the best, though, my former hometown's heraldic crest had a boar, my BB Orc team recruits from the Boarhide Tribe and scratching a boars nose with a sharp stick until it grunts in satisfaction and plops down on his side to get scratched all over is just great fun for everyone involved. As long as you're doing it through a fence and those monsters can't actually get close and bite you hand off
they should really sell those miniatures for 5$ each... I mean I'd easily paint a whole army of Vikings (Kings of War) out of them.
3 or 4 regiments with mages, undead support troops, valkeries, giants, trolls, OH MY GOD.
Undead_Love-Machine wrote: Yeah, The giant looks really good. It's interesting that there is a disclaimer about how the image is of a master and not the plastic version.
Or do they state that for all of the images shown?
KS now requires some sort of disclaimer note when creators show non-production images.
Previously, KS had allowed pictures of fake things that were rendered beautifully and presented as "real" things for purchase, and then reality crashed in when the product didn't match the promise. I think it's a good change.
Scrub wrote: Super lovely miniatures! The giant in particular is really, really nice!
Not interested in the game itself so will be leaving this one alone.
Did they ever do a minis only pledge for Zombicide or any other Cmon kickstarters at all?
No, but the core game had tons of miniatures and the stretch goals added a lot of value to that $100 pledge all three times. This is starting to take a bit better shape, but it's still not quite at that perfect sweet spot where minis-only pledgers will bite. I'd say make your decision in the last day or two for this campaign if you want minis-only.
Hopefully, they don't add a sixth player box for another $30, or if they do they'll do a buy-2-discount for both of them.
CMoN have moved to preboxed sets for their KS, often in the final retail boxes with KS extras all being packed in a plain brown box it makes packing much easier with less chances of mispacks. Offering extras of individual minis (that aren't already boxed) just makes packing a nightmare for them so they won't be doing it. They have posted several times that there won't be a miniatures only pledge, they are selling a boardgame and all that entails.
I would certainly expect the 6th faction as the same type of add-on and same price. MAYBE a "completionist" pledge with the game and all add-ons, but I kinda doubt it here. They seem to be trying the simplicity angle on this KS.
Scrub wrote: Super lovely miniatures! The giant in particular is really, really nice!
Not interested in the game itself so will be leaving this one alone.
Did they ever do a minis only pledge for Zombicide or any other Cmon kickstarters at all?
The Zombicide games were all "100+ minis for $100", and the minis were merely OK-ish 3-D tokens (3/5). Relic Knights was minis-only, and had legitimately good minis. Wrath was also mini-oriented. Dogs of War, etc. were board games-oriented.
For Blood Rage the Monsters are awesome (5/5), while the underlying game itself seems rather clunky and overly-involved. The card draft mini-game mechanic is clever, but slows the game. Basically, Blood Rage is a KS with Monsters / minis that are so good that one would want to get them without dealing with the game itself.
At this point, I am going to sit back and decide at the very end, whether the final collection of minis is worth pledging.
drazz wrote: I would certainly expect the 6th faction as the same type of add-on and same price. MAYBE a "completionist" pledge with the game and all add-ons, but I kinda doubt it here. They seem to be trying the simplicity angle on this KS.
A get-everything pledge would be nice for completionists, as you say, but it might be hard to price appropriately since CMoN can't be certain how many (addon) stretch goals they'll unlock. They could price it at $300 for example, but the value wouldn't be there until later in the campaign.
And, yes, they seem to be running on limited pledge levels for simplicity's sake which I think is a good move. Addons are sure to complicate it somewhat but they've gotten better at making those manageable from a backer perspective which I'm sure translate to their end.
I haven't pledged yet, but I am probably going to have to make my wife a little angry and pledge before the end. The models are just too awesome in theme and execution.
The Zombicide games were all "100+ minis for $100", and the minis were merely OK-ish 3-D tokens (3/5). Relic Knights was minis-only, and had legitimately good minis. Wrath was also mini-oriented. Dogs of War, etc. were board games-oriented.
For Blood Rage the Monsters are awesome (5/5), while the underlying game itself seems rather clunky and overly-involved. The card draft mini-game mechanic is clever, but slows the game. Basically, Blood Rage is a KS with Monsters / minis that are so good that one would want to get them without dealing with the game itself.
At this point, I am going to sit back and decide at the very end, whether the final collection of minis is worth pledging.
I dunno, I think Zombicide has quite a bit of detail for just being "3/5" tokens. They're certainly on par with some metal manufacturers' offerings.
I think Blood Rage (and Conan probably, since I think it's the same company making the plastics) will deliver above-standard casts. They greens look detailed and deep enough in relief to warrant good plastics. Most of the Zombicide greens were detailed similarly to the ones we've seen from Blood Rage, and they need that because the plastic molding will remove some of that depth. Another thing I hope they get right is a clean cast, with few noticeable or poorly placed mold lines.
I think they'll be fine for single piece plastics.
Even ignoring the knee pegs, these are *bad* sculpts.
.
What makes them "bad?" The fact that you don't like them?
They're fine to me. I've never had a problem with any of the runner models. Hell, I'd say, in particular, the dude in the shorts ripping his chest open is a pretty solid sculpt, considering in that low quality photo you can still see the detail of his teeth and the stripe on his running shorts.
I have been modeling and gaming for 16 years with games workshop, dust, kingdom death, wwx, battletech, fow, etc.... I have to say that zombicide has miniatures that are more detailed than gw's or dust's (except for gw's lotr stuff). Z's minis are parody characters that clearly look like the actors (and are easily identifiable as such) and are to scale (not warhammer cartoonish). Now painting can make or break the minis so keep that in mind. The zombie minis are also super detailed as others have pointed out. They may be slightly distorted but thats because they are freaking zombies. The pegs are ugly too but they wete made that way because they are single piece minis (pegs are easily removed). I noticed you didnt post pics of the shirtless mohawk zombie who is exceptional.
There is a reason the minis are highly sought after and are worth a pile of cash! But to each their own I guess.
At this point, for $75, only the most mean-spirited penny-pinchers will be complaining about 'value' and/or a 'minis only pledge'!
So, 99% of KS backers?
Ha!
So...how many miniatures are in the game now?
And to be super-duper extra 'fair', only count the 'troops' that come in multiples of the same pose as 'one' miniature.
So, just 'unique' sculpts.
Then divide $75 by that number.
Then look at how...silly it is to be complaining about this!
That is, of course, if you (and 'you' here is being used in the general, not specific sense) like the minis - which 'you' must if 'you' want to buy them!
For me, the sculpts are fantastic and the value is already here, and there's still quite a ways to go!
Even ignoring the knee pegs, these are *bad* sculpts.
.
What makes them "bad?" The fact that you don't like them?
They're fine to me. I've never had a problem with any of the runner models. Hell, I'd say, in particular, the dude in the shorts ripping his chest open is a pretty solid sculpt, considering in that low quality photo you can still see the detail of his teeth and the stripe on his running shorts.
Look at the girl. First, the anatomy is terrible - the extended left arm and hand is far too long for the body. For a functional body that is supposed to be running, the anatomy has limbs at all sorts of strange angles that flat out don't work in the real world.
For the guy, it's completely ridiculous that he's ripping his chest open mid-stride as a "drive by".
These Zc2 runners are not large, well-sculpted models like what we have in BR. They are unimpressively mediocre sculpts, in a material that isn't particularly paint friendly. Yes, there is detail, but you're not going to convince anybody that it holds a candle to the BR Monsters.
Dude, no one has agreed with you and more than one person has disagreed with you so I think we are not the ones needing convincing. We have just posted our opinions (as you have stated yours) and our opinions seem to agree with the masses on many forums. In fact i have never seen one forum complaining that zombicide sculpts are junk and poorly detailed. I also see you are stuck on those two runners... how about the other runners? The new skinners? The survivor sculpts? Thought so...
Also remember that the argument for natural poses is slightly moot; they are zombies which are not natural. That is like people arguing about the reality of 40k which is a science fiction game and not reality.
The BE sculpts are good (about the same as zombicide imho) but this is apples and oranges. Also remember these are Mcvey sculpts. Mcvey is ultra talented and i own many of his minis but remember how good the sedition wars resins transitioned into plastic....
Thank god the minis will be 1 piece and made in the same plastic as zombicide minis.
455_PWR wrote: Dude, no one has agreed with you and more than one person has disagreed with you so I think we are not the ones needing convincing. We have just posted our opinions (as you have stated yours) and our opinions seem to agree with the masses on many forums. In fact i have never seen one forum complaining that zombicide sculpts are junk and poorly detailed. I also see you are stuck on those two runners... how about the other runners? The new skinners? The survivor sculpts? Thought so...
Also remember that the argument for natural poses is slightly moot; they are zombies which are not natural. That is like people arguing about the reality of 40k which is a science fiction game and not reality.
The BE sculpts are good (about the same as zombicide imho) but this is apples and oranges. Also remember these are Mcvey sculpts. Mcvey is ultra talented and i own many of his minis but remember how good the sedition wars resins transitioned into plastic....
Thank god the minis will be 1 piece and made in the same plastic as zombicide minis.
I thought we had established that McVey hadn't done any of the BR sculpts. Hasn't everything that's been shown so far been done by Remy Tremblay or Jason Hendricks?
Correct Mike directed the sculptors but didn't sculpt himself these days he directs rather than sculpts, Remy did the bulk of the human sized minis and Jason the monsters but they are not the only sculptors JAG, Jose Roig, Steve Saunders, Gregory Clavilier, Stephane Simon, Rafal Zelazo and Elfried Perochon are also involved. The Gods and human sized monsters don't look like Remy's work.
455_PWR wrote: Dude, no one has agreed with you and more than one person has disagreed with you so I think we are not the ones needing convincing.
Dude, the fact is that the BR monsters are demonstrably bigger and better than the Zc minis, in pretty much every way that matters (design, concept, anatomy, materials, etc.). If people don't agree, I don't have to convince them.
Objectively, the female runner is laughably bad - limbs flat out do not go that way, "natural", zombie or otherwise. By Zombicide standards (tokens), within the Zombicide range and context, she may pass muster, and that's fine. Although I do recall a certain amount of consternation on various forums when people received their minis...
At this point, for $75, only the most mean-spirited penny-pinchers will be complaining about 'value' and/or a 'minis only pledge'!
So, 99% of KS backers?
Ha!
So...how many miniatures are in the game now?
And to be super-duper extra 'fair', only count the 'troops' that come in multiples of the same pose as 'one' miniature.
So, just 'unique' sculpts.
Then divide $75 by that number.
Then look at how...silly it is to be complaining about this!
That is, of course, if you (and 'you' here is being used in the general, not specific sense) like the minis - which 'you' must if 'you' want to buy them!
For me, the sculpts are fantastic and the value is already here, and there's still quite a ways to go!
OK, I'll do the math to save everyone the trouble, and I'll calculate it as KS, retail, and the KS exclusive.
Loving the minis for this and the rules themselves look really interesting (quite different from most games I play).
I'm in for $1 at the moment and might not be able to swing the $75-$100 for this thing before the end of the month, so being able to up my pledge in the pledge manager would be great... Has anyone heard confirmation whether that'll be possible? Gracias!
At this point, for $75, only the most mean-spirited penny-pinchers will be complaining about 'value' and/or a 'minis only pledge'!
Why you gotta be so hurtful? Look, all I am asking for is to be able to pick and choose all the individual minis I want and pay only $1 each. If they aren't willing to meet me halfway on that, then they are as evil as Baby Hitler. I'm being completely reasonable.
Seriously, though, I'd love to buy a handful of the Viking infantry off someone down the line. For cheap.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Dude, the fact is that the BR monsters are demonstrably bigger and better than the Zc minis, in pretty much every way that matters (design, concept, anatomy, materials, etc.). If people don't agree, I don't have to convince them.
Objectively, the female runner is laughably bad - limbs flat out do not go that way, "natural", zombie or otherwise. By Zombicide standards (tokens), within the Zombicide range and context, she may pass muster, and that's fine. Although I do recall a certain amount of consternation on various forums when people received their minis...
For comparison's sake, there's only size and technical sculpting as objective measurements for the Blood Rage monsters; everything else is purely subjective. For instance, I could say that the Fire Giant is sculpted incredibly nicely in terms of well defined details, crisp lines, natural forms, and attention to smaller details. That is a rather objective observation, and one most people would agree with.
I can also say that the model is completely unrealistic in that nobody runs with their sword held out at a 45 degree angle from their body directly perpendicular to their direction of motion, or the helm would require some form of chin strap to stay on while the giant is moving otherwise it'd bounce around and obscure his vision, or his necklace and helmet would weigh hundreds of pounds if made from a bronze-like metal so why burden yourself with them, etc etc... These are all subjective observations, and rely more on design and conceptualization than technical sculpting of the model.
So, in regards to that, I'd say the only thing valid to compare would be the technical sculpting of the models, which I still maintain that they're all really well-sculpted models given their design decisions. Sure, the S2 female runner is a bit of a weird pose, but I suggest a quick Google search of runners exchanging batons to get an idea of possible poses this miniature comes pretty close to representing. I'd agree that the execution of the pose is pretty poor - her legs are too far out of sync for most natural running positions compared to the other runner sculpts, and her hands are in weird positions for that stride, but at the same time we are assuming she follows normal human behavior to draw these conclusions.
Maybe muscle groups function completely differently once zombified, and this is completely "natural" for a runner zombie in the Zombicide universe. Maybe the BR Fire Giant uses some form of magic or concentration of willpower to overcome the physical impediments his armor, jewelry, and weapon impose on him so he can rampage about like he's wielding a cardboard tube to splat Vikings all over the place. These are all design decisions made in a reality different from ours.
So, I'll say again, I think overall that Zombicide has some of the best sculpts for single piece board game tokens on the market. There are outliers, of course, just like any range of miniatures (the Zombicide Nic Cage in Con Air model, for example, is really meh imo, yet the concept and artwork for him would have led me to believe he'd turn out better). I'd say the BR Volur Witch and Wolfman are fairly lackluster poses (though sculpted quite well, beyond anything I'm capable of doing that's for sure) when compared to some of the other miniatures on offer, but that doesn't inherently make them "bad" miniatures - they're just not as pleasing to me due to a few specific subjective reasons.
"Bad" miniatures, to me, are miniatures I can't tell what's been sculpted where because the detail is really soft or undefined, or have terrible mold lines or mold slip, or were cast in a sub-par material that won't withstand gaming handling if that's what they were designed for.
Also, I'm not sure we can make judgements on the Blood Rage miniatures if they don't actually exist yet in retail form - sure we've seen some test pieces, but until retail boxes are in our hands, there's no 100% guarantee what we have seen so far will make it through into the final models. I'm fairly confident we'll get awesome pieces, though.
The figures are wonderful, and honestly I'd love if they released them separately. I just can't justify another board game so soon after Rum and Bones.
You can make all the excuses you want about zombifying and put up all the concealing paint you want. All you are doing is proving that the Zcide minis need paint to look good, as I wrote at the top of the page:
Even ignoring the knee pegs, these are *bad* sculpts.
At best, you can say that Zombicide is a mixed bag of sculpts that requires paint to look good. Hence, 3/5.
The BR monsters don't need paint to look awesome.
The sculpts themselves are not impressive, and none of your posts change that. If the Zc models were really good, we'd have been drooling over how well-executed they were, and begging for minis-only pledges in Zcide.
JohnHwangDD wrote: You can make all the excuses you want about zombifying and put up all the concealing paint you want. All you are doing is proving that the Zcide minis need paint to look good, as I wrote at the top of the page:
You said they weren't paint friendly. I fairly emphatically evidenced that you're wrong.
The sculpts themselves are not impressive, and none of your posts change that. If the Zc models were really good, we'd have been drooling over how well-executed they were, and begging for minis-only pledges in Zcide.
I have no interest in a minis-only pledge for Blood Rage. And honestly, I think it's wonderful that they won't be doing any kind of minis only pledge.
And Zombicide seems to have plenty of "minis only" boxes for sale that sell quite well.
Whenever I get Zombicide stuff I drool over how well-executed they are. They are great miniatures and hold a lot of detail, especially considering the sheer number of them that you get and that they are basically just board game pieces.
JohnHwangDD wrote: You can make all the excuses you want about zombifying and put up all the concealing paint you want. All you are doing is proving that the Zcide minis need paint to look good, as I wrote at the top of the page:
You said they weren't paint friendly. I fairly emphatically evidenced that you're wrong.
The sculpts themselves are not impressive, and none of your posts change that. If the Zc models were really good, we'd have been drooling over how well-executed they were, and begging for minis-only pledges in Zcide.
I have no interest in a minis-only pledge for Blood Rage. And honestly, I think it's wonderful that they won't be doing any kind of minis only pledge.
And Zombicide seems to have plenty of "minis only" boxes for sale that sell quite well.
Are you incapable of reading? I said (and I re-quote):
JohnHwangDD wrote: Zombicide is a mixed bag of sculpts that requires paint to look good
What part of that was so unclear that you were incapable of comprehending it twice before?
You can think whatever you want, although it is exceptionally petty and spiteful not to want the creator to capture additional revenue, nor for potential backers to get what they want. ____
Not sure if it has anything to do with games or not.
Possibly as a response to bells and food.
The sheer quantity of figures most board games come with is what keeps me from ever attempting to paint them.
That's gonna be me and Super Dungeon Explore...
And probably Conan when it shows up.
~iPaint
I have ridiculous amounts of stuff inbound over the next several months, starting with SDE and continuing through to Conan. For me, the challenge will be playing.
The BR monsters are inspiring. As minis go, using the Conan or SDE dice for combat resolution could make for quite a fine little skirmish battle game, Mordheim in a box.
JohnHwangDD wrote: They are unimpressively mediocre sculpts, in a material that isn't particularly paint friendly. Yes, there is detail, but you're not going to convince anybody that it holds a candle to the BR Monsters.
See above. Not a single problem with my reading comprehension. Unless my understanding of "isn't particularly paint friendly" differs that greatly from the common definition of those words, all linked together, in a single phrase.
What part of that was so unclear that you were incapable of comprehending it twice before?
You can think whatever you want, although it is exceptionally petty and spiteful not to want the creator to capture additional revenue, nor for potential backers to get what they want.
I think it's exceptionally entitled and tone deaf to expect that the creator should deviate from their intended product vision (see: BOARDGAME) to capture a small fraction of potential backers who think any project creator should cater to their every demand, regardless of the product and delivery scope explosion it would cause.
Do people feel that $25 (~£17) + shipping for a fairly heavy item is a good price for a 50-page artbook though? That's one of the lowest page-counts I've ever seen listed for a hardback that wasn't a £5 novelty jokebook! The art is truly wonderful, I'm just not seeing the value compared to conventional artbooks with up to 4 times the content for the same price on Amazon. For reference, they sold a similar $20 book for Xenoshyft (including dog tags for some reason), and it came out very pretty and chunky:
JohnHwangDD wrote: They are unimpressively mediocre sculpts, in a material that isn't particularly paint friendly. Yes, there is detail, but you're not going to convince anybody that it holds a candle to the BR Monsters.
See above. Not a single problem with my reading comprehension. Unless my understanding of "isn't particularly paint friendly" differs that greatly from the common definition of those words, all linked together, in a single phrase.
What part of that was so unclear that you were incapable of comprehending it twice before?
You can think whatever you want, although it is exceptionally petty and spiteful not to want the creator to capture additional revenue, nor for potential backers to get what they want.
I think it's exceptionally entitled and tone deaf to expect that the creator should deviate from their intended product vision (see: BOARDGAME) to capture a small fraction of potential backers who think any project creator should cater to their every demand, regardless of the product and delivery scope explosion it would cause.
Zc minis are made in bendy, soft plastic. It's not a preferred material. Just because one can paint it, doesn't mean it's a good material choice for pure painting.
And yet, they just did an art book? How is that part of the board game vision?
I'm just in it for the minis, I love the art too but I don't need a book that I'll look through once and then stick on my shelf forevermore. It's likely just 1 print run and they are probably anticipating a small number of books, like maybe 500 copies, so that would also drive up the unit price a lot. With printing, stuff only gets cheap when you get tons of copies made.
And yet, they just did an art book? How is that part of the board game vision?
They've done Art Books for previous board games (Xenoshyft, Rivet Wars) and this game has a well known, sought after artist on it. An art book fits in with that.
Separating out game components to sell individually does not.
Though, to be fair, FFG does have minis only versions of the Imperial Assault and Descent boxed games.
And yet, they just did an art book? How is that part of the board game vision?
They've done Art Books for previous board games (Xenoshyft, Rivet Wars) and this game has a well known, sought after artist on it. An art book fits in with that.
Separating out game components to sell individually does not.
Though, to be fair, FFG does have minis only versions of the Imperial Assault and Descent boxed games.
They do? Where? I'd love to buy the minis without subsidizing the cards or chits. For ethical reasons, of course.
They do? Where? I'd love to buy the minis without subsidizing the cards or chits. For ethical reasons, of course.
I was being facetious. They're selling a board game. If you want the minis, you get the board game with it and pay for the board game materials as well.
Thanks for the sarcasm, though. With cheerleading like that, I probably won't have to wait as long.
No problem.
Any time I can explain to other gamers that they're not entitled to something in the exact manner in which they want it, I'm happy to oblige.
Dude, reread the thread. I was on your side until you threw out the FFG bull. You seem to think you are entitled to a kickstarter thread without criticism or wish listing. Maybe you should give yourself a dose of your own medicine.
Now, without sarcasm, is there or is there not a way to pledge for a physical art book without buying a whole BoardGame?
Thanks for the sarcasm, though. With cheerleading like that, I probably won't have to wait as long.
No problem.
Any time I can explain to other gamers that they're not entitled to something in the exact manner in which they want it, I'm happy to oblige.
Dude, reread the thread. I was on your side until you threw out the FFG bull. You seem to think you are entitled to a kickstarter thread without criticism or wish listing. Maybe you should give yourself a dose of your own medicine.
I think criticism and wishlisting are great things. I think continually bitching about them not offering a minis only pledge when that's not what they're marketing, and then refusing to acknowledge that they're marketing a boardgame, is spoiled and entitled and indicative of a lot of the things I dislike about our niche. And please be clear I'm not referring to you in this regard.
Now, without sarcasm, is there or is there not a way to pledge for a physical art book without buying a whole BoardGame?
I'm sure you could ask CMoN if they'd be willing to allow you do to a $1 pledge so you could throw that on. Additionally, I know there are multiple people that would be willing to add an art book to their pledge or anyone, myself included. Because it's a book, shipping would be dirt cheap, too.
Asking about miniature only pledge options is only ever sensible with boardgame projects. Actual miniature game projects have no need for that, because they either offer separate rules, or have minimal additional non miniature content in boxed pledges.
His Master's Voice wrote: Asking about miniature only pledge options is only ever sensible with boardgame projects. Actual miniature game projects have no need for that, because they either offer separate rules, or have minimal additional non miniature content in boxed pledges.
His Master's Voice wrote: Asking about miniature only pledge options is only ever sensible with boardgame projects. Actual miniature game projects have no need for that, because they either offer separate rules, or have minimal additional non miniature content in boxed pledges.
So how many times is enough times?
That would be the third time after they decide there has been enough people asking to actually create the pledge level. The first time after is fine, cause no one looks, they just go to complain. The second time is okay, we'll give you that because everyone has a bad day and misses the big print saying we give up. The third is just rediculous. Like everyone missing the MOD's demand for us to move away from this subject here and take it to the kickstarter comments. I don't need a reply to this lets move on to more nice sculpts and stretch goals. Maybe I we get enough figures then the miniatures only people will say "who cares, I'm in for the figs as the board game parts are now worth getting because I'm getting enough plastic crack"
Theophony wrote: Maybe I we get enough figures then the miniatures only people will say "who cares, I'm in for the figs as the board game parts are now worth getting because I'm getting enough plastic crack"
Right now, I count:
12 Monsters (4+2 big & 2+4 small)
36 Vikings (4x 1+4+4)
3 Gods
= 51 scale miniatures (27 unique sculpts)
+23 sculpted tokens
= 74 3-D objects
51 minis for $85 is the baseline offer. That's a little expensive for a CMoN game, whereas 74 for $85 would be on par with previous offers, so it kind of depends on how you view the 3-D items as having value..
Theophony wrote: Maybe I we get enough figures then the miniatures only people will say "who cares, I'm in for the figs as the board game parts are now worth getting because I'm getting enough plastic crack"
Right now, I count:
12 Monsters (4+2 big & 2+4 small)
36 Vikings (4x 1+4+4)
3 Gods
= 51 scale miniatures (27 unique sculpts)
+23 sculpted tokens
= 74 3-D objects
51 minis for $85 is the baseline offer. That's a little expensive for a CMoN game, whereas 74 for $85 would be on par with previous offers, so it kind of depends on how you view the 3-D items as having value..
That's why I'm saying lets get some more stretch goals and more figures. Then maybe people like you and I will be satisfied with the quantity of figures and won't care about the cardboard and other stuff. Right now I'm looking at this and saying if really like a couple pieces, but the rest will probably get used in Conan anyway so it comes down to funds. while the sculpts are nice I can wait till miniaturemarket.com gets it in and get the bigger discount.
Also I'd like to point out I put a higher value on these figures over the zombicide ones because of the factory these are being made in. I see more quality in these than previous CMON stuff (no slight against them intended).
Yeah... not really seeing the complaint from those who just want minis. There looks to be plenty enough to get your value even if you don't want the game.
spiralingcadaver wrote: There looks to be plenty enough to get your value even if you don't want the game.
Your value? Dunno, maybe.
My value? That's a different story. I have no need for repeat sculpts of the vikings, so they're dead weight to me as much as all the cardboard is. The alternative sculpts put the whole thing close to where I'd consider paying for the chaff, but it's not there yet. I'd like to see another big monster or two before I buy in.
skrulnik wrote: IMO its already worth it for just the figures.
Using Reaper Bones as a cost comparison, and John's total number of models.
6 monsters at $8 each is $48.
45 small at $2.25 each is $101.
So the value in one piece minis is there.
Because from what I'm seeing, these sculpts are at least the equal of Reaper Bones.
If we are looking at Reaper Bones, the most recent Bones II was $100 for
Spoiler:
Reaper Bones II had considerably more minis per dollar.
If you look at Bones II a la carte, big monsters are $5 each (2 Hill Giants for $10) and small are <$1.50 each (6 Heroes I for $8 total), so:
$30 for the 6 big
$30 for the 21 unique small (6 monsters, 12 Viks, 3 Gods)
= $60 total vs $75 price.
Blood Rage should add at least a dozen more whatnots if this really is a minis-first game.
After a weekend of battle, the fog of war rises to reveal another Stretch Goal fallen to the ground. Now all backers will be able to gaze at the might of Odin sitting on his throne.
As we head into the second half of the Kickstarter campaign, let's introduce a god that's always looking ahead. Perhaps he might give us some sign of what's to come!
If we reach 470K, all backers will get Heimdall, the Watcher Guardian, including his figure and card to use him with the Gods of Asgard rules!
Heimdall's sculpture is still very much a work in progress. For one, his horn Gjallarhorn is still in rough form.
Heimdall's ability changes radically the way battles are resolved in his province. With his gift of foreknowledge, he forces players to reveal their Battle cards one at a time, in clockwise order, with the pillaging player revealing his card last. That means players are able to choose the card they will play in response to the cards already revealed by the players before them.
We are only barely halfway there, folks. There's still a lot we might unearth if we push hard enough.
Mutter wrote: Will there by a 'game-only' pledge without the minis at some stage?
Someone actually did ask if there would be a cheaper version using wooden cubes instead of minis...
The answer is no.
The funny thing is, the game plays perfectly well with tokens or meeples. Arguably better, as it emphasizes that the underlying game is a Euro strategy game.
I'm kind of torn with this one. I read the rules last night and they didn't interest me in the least. Not really seeing this one ever getting put on my table for gaming. I'll probably pull the plug on my pledge and pick it up at retail if the production figures are worth painting.
Triple9 wrote: I'm kind of torn with this one. I read the rules last night and they didn't interest me in the least. Not really seeing this one ever getting put on my table for gaming. I'll probably pull the plug on my pledge and pick it up at retail if the production figures are worth painting.
Reading the rules is a borefest.
Seeing the game played really shines a light on the nuances. Though the players in the gameplay video are barely tolerable, it's worth a watch if you can filter the maniacal laughter out.
Next up is Thor at $500k along with a box for the gods - apparently if all the gods are unlocked then it will be considered its own expansion.
Once we manage do unlock Thor, the Gods of Asgard expansion box will be complete! All backers will receive this in its own box, as part of their Ragnarök pledge!
So basically they used stretch goals to build up the roster of gods for an expansion, and backers get it for 'free' as part of their pledge.
I've got to say I'm completely underwhelmed by the gods. There is just something odd in the posing of Tyr, Heimdall and Thor, and especially when compared to some of the awesome rank and file vikings from the core they're just looking like pretty weak sculpts to me. I understand some of it might be sculpting to take into account plastic shrinkage, but I didn't see that for the other vikings so I'm just not quite getting it.
It's probably just the sculptor, whenever you have two or more tackling pretty much the same material (Viking warriors) you risk one being significantly better than another
I agree that the gods are rather disappointing as a whole so far. Thor looks like he is 50 years old and balding. Odin looks ok, the rest are mediocre or worse. Granted not all of them are finished yet, but I was hoping for something more impressive.
Maybe I will use the Marvel versions for Thor and Loki:
I have to say that while I think this game looks really interesting and (most of) the models are quite well done, the escalating stretch goals are starting to bother me. There was a reasonable gap between them originally ($15K-$20K) and now they're up to $40K for unlocking comparable (or less) product? I'll be the first to admit I'm not privy to all their budgetary and production info., but that just seems like it's a reach and is a little off-putting IMO.
Gomez wrote: I have to say that while I think this game looks really interesting and (most of) the models are quite well done, the escalating stretch goals are starting to bother me. There was a reasonable gap between them originally ($15K-$20K) and now they're up to $40K for unlocking comparable (or less) product? I'll be the first to admit I'm not privy to all their budgetary and production info., but that just seems like it's a reach and is a little off-putting IMO.
Do you mean that you're annoyed that the stretch goals are coming with wider and wider gaps? That's just a natural necessity. Remember, in the beginning, when they had say 1000 backers, a stretch goal for an additional mini had to be financed so they could produce that mini and send it out in 1000 copies. But now, with 6000 backers, every extra mini added means 6000 copies to be sent out, i.e. more money is needed.
Yeah, I understand that level of economy, I've just always assumed the majority of cost was in setting up the molds rather than pouring the plastic - so that making multiple sculpts or a large number of models was what jacked up the stretch goal amounts. I guess considering the quality of the (majority of) the sculpts and the rep of the sculptors they probably have to recoup more money from each one...
I think some of the unimpressiveness of the gods sculpts is simply due to the fact that the sculptors are sculpting with the end product in mind, ie. single piece PVC figures. How many pieces do those Knight Model figures come in? The only thing i would change, if i were a famous sculptor being employed to do this, is to increase the size of the god figures. But the creators might be directing the artists otherwise.
There's the 6th clan and all backers get it at $710k
If we reach 710k, all backers will get the complete Wildboar Clan! All pieces pertaining to this clan are Kickstarter Exclusive, and so will never be available at retail. It is important to note that this will not be a 6th player expansion, as the current incarnation of the game was not designed and tested to be played with 6 players. This special gift is meant to add more variety to your games, giving you an extra option of an exclusive clan to play as!
This Stretch Goal will include everything needed to play the Wildboar clan:
8 Warrior figures - including two different sculpts!
1 Leader figure
1 Ship figure
11 small colored bases
2 large colored bases
1 Clan Sheet
1 sculpted Glory marker
4 sculpted Clan tokens
Bear Shamans next up
I'll admit I was wavering but the extra clan means I stick with and for $70 too.
It's interesting that they have this 6th free faction with no plans to have it be a 6 player game. There is much less incentive to buy the 5th player faction add on if you get a 5th faction for free. Different models for sure, but they all seem to play the same, and as far as the game is concerned at least one faction would always be sitting in the box.
Having been burned on Sedition Wars I didn't want to buy anything CMON (or PVC) ever again, but I'm very excited about this. I'm basically seeing it as a boardgame that comes with a bunch of nice tokens and several play variants. The fact that it's not become a horribly bloated add-on party makes me feel that the creators are keeping the original game target in sight, and the last add-on (free 6th faction, even though there's no 6-player rules) says to me that they're not compromising the game in order to please the crowd. I actually feel like I'm buying into a product that has some integrity to it.
Karazax wrote: There is much less incentive to buy the 5th player faction add on if you get a 5th faction for free.
You don't get any of the extra cards with the Boar clan to play 5 players you still need to buy the 5th player expansion to play with 5 players - even when the Boar clan get added it's still only a 4 player game you need the extra 24 cards in the expansion as well.
I think what they should have done was have the rules for 5 players added into the main rulebook and then instead of a "5th player" expansion, they just sell those extra clans as separate stand alone upgrade packs.
Karazax wrote: There is much less incentive to buy the 5th player faction add on if you get a 5th faction for free.
You don't get any of the extra cards with the Boar clan to play 5 players you still need to buy the 5th player expansion to play with 5 players - even when the Boar clan get added it's still only a 4 player game you need the extra 24 cards in the expansion as well.
Ah, well I still would be more inclined just to print out my own 24 cards rather than pay $30 for the 5th player expansion. I'm assuming I could just scan one of the existing decks and print it out since all the factions play the same.
If the Boar Clan gets added, then I will almost certainly back, as the quality and quantity of the miniatures would then justify it even if I only rarely play the game...
Alpharius wrote: They pretty much *have* to add the Boar and Ram shamans though, right?
I'm sure if they're not funded CMON will do the usual "seeing as you guys are so awesome we'll unlock them anyway!" or "additional PM funds mean we've unlocked them!" shenanigans that they and Mantic often do
JohnHwangDD wrote: I would rather have a couple more Giants instead of more Shamans / Seers / Mystics / Priests.
Me too!
I'd also hope for at least one more 'big monster' stretch goal before it is all said and done...
Pledges are still accelerating to close, and I calculate straight line finish of at least $775k. At the rate pledges are growing, CMoN should put 2 SGs, one for the Boar & Ram Shamans at $750, and one for a big monster to close things out at $800.
I've been sitting on an EB since day one, but have really been leaning heavily towards dropping out. I think the addition of the boar clan settled it though, and I've decided to stay. My first CMoN Kickstarter - wish me luck!
I'm also really hoping for another big monster after the shamans at $750K, that would be sweet.
Trodax wrote: I've been sitting on an EB since day one, but have really been leaning heavily towards dropping out. I think the addition of the boar clan settled it though, and I've decided to stay. My first CMoN Kickstarter - wish me luck!
Well I'm finally in for $105. Main set plus the 5th player set. This is breaking my no CMoN feeling. But had to because of the Conan crossover. I'll go with that.
I still think the gameplay is kinda meh (for me at least), but as usual cmon brings enough shinies to make me stay in. I'm sure the box will get put on the pile of someday to paint and the extras will get ebayed to cover the cost, yet still I am compelled to remain in.
Alright, so my satisfaction is 100% guaranteed then? Awesome.
455_PWR wrote:What? A Conan crossover? Which mini/set is the crossover? I pledged for Conan and might have to pledge for this if there is in fact a crossover mini.
Yes, your satisfaction is 100% guaranteed, just like the backers in the Wrath of Kings KS who ordered gravestone scenic bases, but received bases no better than a regular base covered with PVA glue & sand!
In all seriousness I'm gonna have to pledge for this one, the KS exclusive giant is my favourite model of all of the figures shown so far, I need it in my life.
Undead_Love-Machine wrote: Yes, your satisfaction is 100% guaranteed, just like the backers in the Wrath of Kings KS who ordered gravestone scenic bases, but received bases no better than a regular base covered with PVA glue & sand!
Which, to be fair, they're offering a full refund on, with no need to send back the interior bases.
Yes, I did already send my refund request in for those!
The point is, even though CMON have a fairly good record with their past kickstarters, nothing is 100% guaranteed.
I'd disagree on the ones they're marketing as boardgames, Sedition Wars (if you're including it) excluded.
I'll reaffirm that I don't think there's any need for "luck" here. You're going to get what you see, and as it's a boxed game in conjunction with Guillotine, there's a good chance it's going to be nearly right on time, or even early if your'e in the US.(Zombicide S3 Base Box was early).
And if you have a problem with shipping, missing items, etc, you'll get it resolved.
820k Stretch Goal Unlocked! The Wolf is Released, and so comes the End of all Things!
Hail Brothers and Sisters!
In a last, overwhelming onslaught, our last Stretch Goal has been totally and utterly destroyed! Backers will get the long heralded figure of Fenrir, the Wolf of Rangarök!
As soon as his sculpt is in a more finished state, we'll be sure to share some pictures with you!
And so all the Rage is spent. There is no more Blood to be shed. In these last couple of weeks you have fought valiantly, and with bravery gathered all the Glory there was to be had! There's naught left but to stand proud and welcome the fiery doom of Rangarök!
I wonder if it will encourage CMON to keep things simpler/cheaper in the future,
as I suspect part of the reason this did so well was that competeists only had to find $100 or so for everything (excluding the art book), rather than $300 in the campaigns that had lots of add ons
There's a link there on the update page- seems like a tower defense/ castle panic type game. With miniatures naturally. Lots of underground lava monster thingees.
I'm a real sucker for CMON boardgames it seems. Hope that one will be as simple and smooth!
as I suspect part of the reason this did so well was that competeists only had to find $100 or so for everything (excluding the art book), rather than $300 in the campaigns that had lots of add ons
CMoN has been simplifying projects and pledges considerably. This is generally good for everyone, having fewer things that can go wrong.
$75 base game & SGs $30 expansion
=$105 for all playables
B-seiged looks like a terrible game. The minis are OK, but they don't do anything for me. Also, it's not Tower Defense, as you're not placing defensive towers. The game has more in common with Space Invaders.
I'm still waiting to see how Fenrir turns out! Hopefully we'll see him soon.
The Others will most certainly be a big draw for CMON. At least that one my brother might pledge for rather than make me eat those costs as usual.
And B-Sieged reminds me of Castle Panic, except with minis. Which isn't a bad thing. Which totally is a Tower Defense game too. But we'll save that conversation for the end of April.
I thought B-sieged was interesting and fun when I demoed it at gencon. Like Highlord, it reminded me of a more advanced version of Castle Panic, with better components.
RoninXiC wrote: Shame there is nothing more to it.
Still, I'll keep my 70+30$ pledge and enjoy a quite massive Viking army with loads of awesome monsters, characters
and a board game.
How many figures in total? It didn't seem to be anywhere near "massive", and far less than is (had been?) usual for CMoN campaigns..
RoninXiC wrote: Shame there is nothing more to it.
Still, I'll keep my 70+30$ pledge and enjoy a quite massive Viking army with loads of awesome monsters, characters
and a board game.
How many figures in total? It didn't seem to be anywhere near "massive", and far less than is (had been?) usual for CMoN campaigns..
By my count, Blood Rage has the following scale miniatures:
. 4 +3 "big" monsters
. 2 +4 man-sized monsters
. 36 +9 Vikings
. +6 Gods
. +12 Viking Shamans
= 76 scale miniatures
In addition, Blood Rage has several physical tokens:
. 4 +1 ships
. 4 +1 Clan buttons
. +3 game tokens
. +20 Clan statuettes
= 33 non-scale tokens
= 109 total physical objects
CMoN met their "100 minis for $100" providing 76 minis for $75, plus another 33 tokens and a board game of sorts for the other $10.
RoninXiC wrote: Shame there is nothing more to it.
Still, I'll keep my 70+30$ pledge and enjoy a quite massive Viking army with loads of awesome monsters, characters
and a board game.
How many figures in total? It didn't seem to be anywhere near "massive", and far less than is (had been?) usual for CMoN campaigns..
By my count, Blood Rage has the following scale miniatures:
. 4 +3 "big" monsters
. 2 +4 man-sized monsters
. 36 +9 Vikings
. +6 Gods
. +12 Viking Shamans
= 76 scale miniatures
In addition, Blood Rage has several physical tokens:
. 4 +1 ships
. 4 +1 Clan buttons
. +3 game tokens
. +20 Clan statuettes
= 33 non-scale tokens
= 109 total physical objects
CMoN met their "100 minis for $100" providing 76 minis for $75, plus another 33 tokens and a board game of sorts for the other $10.
And you actually get 4 of each of the clan buttons so add another 15 non scale tokens to your total
DaveC wrote: I think your mixing up clan tokens of which each clan gets 4 and the glory marker which is the button each clan gets 1 plastic glory marker
Glory markers 1 per clan
Clan token 4 of each
Yup. I ID'd the "Glory markers" as "buttons" (because that's what they look like, being flat and round), and the "Clan tokens" as "statuettes" (because that's what they look like, being tiny little statues).
Azazelx wrote: OK, a solid and decent number of figures for the price, but it's not quite a "massive Viking army". That's why I had a WTF moment there.
I don't know that it was ever intended to provide a "massive Viking army."
Descent: Journeys in the Dark Second Edition is a board game in which one player takes on the role of the treacherous overlord, and up to four other players take on the roles of courageous heroes. Featuring double-sided modular board pieces, countless hero and skill combinations, and an immersive story-driven campaign, Descent: Journeys in the Dark Second Edition transports heroes to a vibrant fantasy realm where they must stand together against an ancient evil.
This updated version of the classic board game of dungeon-delving adventure features a host of enhancements, including new heroes and monsters, streamlined rules, a class-based hero system, campaign play, and much more.
Descent: Journeys in the Dark Second Edition includes –
A rulebook and quest guide
Eight hero figures and 38 monster figures Nine custom dice
Nearly 250 cards
48 Map tiles
Over 150 tokens
Azazelx wrote: OK, a solid and decent number of figures for the price, but it's not quite a "massive Viking army". That's why I had a WTF moment there.
I don't know that it was ever intended to provide a "massive Viking army."
Oh yeah....and a game.
I'm not quoting CMoN - I'm quoting whoever said that above. I read that and was like "Wait, what? Did I miss something?" Let's not take my quote or question out of context.
I'm not quoting CMoN - I'm quoting whoever said that above. I read that and was like "Wait, what? Did I miss something?" Let's not take my quote or question out of context.
CKPM invites are going out. Went to finalise mine but its looking for $31.50 for shipping on a $70 game if thats not an error I'll be asking for a refund
JohnHwangDD wrote: US carriers and such have dramatically increased rates this year, and it is impacting a lot of KS, I'm sure.
True but I'm not in the US nor is the shipping through a US based courier. I've sent them a message if it doesn't drop below $25 (or they don't respond in time) I'll look for a refund the 60 days isn't up until mid May. It's looking like going for a smaller value pledges on CMoN KS just isn't worth it anymore with the added shipping cost so it's in big or not all.
JohnHwangDD wrote: They're wanting nearly $18 to ship a base game to California. That's basically double the $10 that they said at the time of the campaign.
It honestly really doesn't surprise me, sadly.
With no shipping discount, it was $32 for me to send a copy of Arcadia Quest from Ohio to Cali.
Shipping in the US sucks. It's crazy a tiny box to Japan will set me back at least 20+, but my family can send us stuff that's quite heavy from Japan to the US for a fraction of what I spent.
They've confirmed my shipping is correct so I've asked for a refund 45% of the pledge cost is too much. They need to provide better estimates for shipping in future Greece another EU country is looking at $60.
Well I was on the fence about this one and only stayed in as they put a lot in the pledge so it's no great loss to me. It wouldn't stop me backing another CMoN project but I'd have to be spending enough for the shipping to be worth it
I wonder how much "EU-friendly" fallout CMoN is going to see here. On the B-Seiged thread, only 9 countries were within the $15-25 estimate, while 19 were above the $25 ceiling.
I'm not really happy about this. I had originally looked at this as a little split for minis, and the extra cost is kinda pissing me off.
Some cyberpunk KS. I was kinda' interested, but a less-than-great attitude from the creators was enough for me to give it a pass.
KS's are starting to get like restaurants for me. There's enough good stuff out there that if you're not interested in treating your customer right, I can find something else.
Orlanth wrote: I am sort of glad I missed this one.
Too many good projects to back, and not enough cash.
Costing out HINT at the moment.
What's HINT?
"Human Interface", a cyberpunk boardgame with metal models. Partly due to all the metal models/card tiles, and the fact that it's based out of Europe, the shipping issues are inverted for that one. Quite affordable for Europe, but the estimates they're getting from their shipper for America are 3 times the European cost, and half the cost of the base pledge! Not quite sure what the attitude problem being referenced is, but definitely shipping into/out of the States is rapidly becoming a tricky topic of late.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I wonder how much "EU-friendly" fallout CMoN is going to see here. On the B-Seiged thread, only 9 countries were within the $15-25 estimate, while 19 were above the $25 ceiling.
I'm not really happy about this. I had originally looked at this as a little split for minis, and the extra cost is kinda pissing me off.
You know if they had come out and said something to the extent of the drop in the euro compared to the dollar has drastically increased the shipping charges I might have been okay with that half answer, but instead they bring up the fact that THEY pay the shipping from the manufacturer to their distribution center . Who knew that a company that makes stuff would charge for that .
I'm in the USA, St. Louis, Missouri, and my shipping was one of the lowest $10.23 for base game and expansion, but I feel for everyone else that got hosed.
Orlanth wrote: I am sort of glad I missed this one.
Too many good projects to back, and not enough cash.
Costing out HINT at the moment.
What's HINT?
"Human Interface", a cyberpunk boardgame with metal models. Partly due to all the metal models/card tiles, and the fact that it's based out of Europe, the shipping issues are inverted for that one. Quite affordable for Europe, but the estimates they're getting from their shipper for America are 3 times the European cost, and half the cost of the base pledge! Not quite sure what the attitude problem being referenced is, but definitely shipping into/out of the States is rapidly becoming a tricky topic of late.
Yep, Human Interface Nakamura Tower can be found here on Dakka, it has a while to run and is unlocking nice toys as it goes. Decent Cyberpunk miniatures are hard to find, and these hit the genre so well, complete with 80's future style iconic of Bladerunner,.Neuromancer and R. Talsorian Games. Recommended.
I want this one for the boardgame element also, it looks like jolly good fun.
£94 is a lot however I slice it, so it has wiped out my interest in other crowdfund projects on at the moment, unless a really exceptional project trumps even this one. My funds for gaming are limited, and I have been spending a tad too heavily of late due to Salute.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I wonder how much "EU-friendly" fallout CMoN is going to see here. On the B-Seiged thread, only 9 countries were within the $15-25 estimate, while 19 were above the $25 ceiling.
I'm not really happy about this. I had originally looked at this as a little split for minis, and the extra cost is kinda pissing me off.
You know if they had come out and said something to the extent of the drop in the euro compared to the dollar has drastically increased the shipping charges I might have been okay with that half answer, but instead they bring up the fact that THEY pay the shipping from the manufacturer to their distribution center . Who knew that a company that makes stuff would charge for that .
I'm in the USA, St. Louis, Missouri, and my shipping was one of the lowest $10.23 for base game and expansion, but I feel for everyone else that got hosed.
A lot of crowdfund projects have fallen apart due to badly costed shipping. Many offered free shipping before realising what that meant.
Shopping games boxes filled with miniatures and bonus unlocked miniatures will cost some money to send halfway around planet Earth.
Backing local is probably the best way, and a lot of companies are now multi sourcing manufacturing sites, or shipping bulk to distribution hubs adn cutting costs that way.
I know that they've shown production samples before, but WOW at seeing them all together in their little clan posses. I wish they sold booster packs or something with maybe 5 sculpts per clan. They're so charmingly pulpy, but without the horned helmet or tiresome clichés. They would make great Beorg Bearstruck and Baerserkers or regular Norsca barbarians. Time to up my 1 dollar pledge.
Too bad that the Rum n Bones minis look really lacking in comparison, I'd trade my addons from that campaing for BR funds immediatlely. I know the colours mixed into the plastic slightly alters the casting qualities, might that be part of it?
PS: If The Others is more BR quality (and from the convention pics it looks like it) I'll splurge so hard on it.
FenixPhox wrote: I actually have never pledged to a KS, so if I do for them it would be a tremendous leap of faith in the site lol.
Yeah. Like having faith in a mail-order catalogue or paying for a pizza in advance.
CMoN doesn't have a perfect record, but plenty good enough for it to be no leap at all unless you're assuming people are inherently lying to you until proven otherwise.
Too bad that the Rum n Bones minis look really lacking in comparison, I'd trade my addons from that campaing for BR funds immediatlely. I know the colours mixed into the plastic slightly alters the casting qualities, might that be part of it?
Check out the images they just released that shows them primed.
The detail is certainly up to par. It was just initially hard to tell do to the coloring of the plastic
Too bad that the Rum n Bones minis look really lacking in comparison, I'd trade my addons from that campaing for BR funds immediatlely. I know the colours mixed into the plastic slightly alters the casting qualities, might that be part of it?
Check out the images they just released that shows them primed.
The detail is certainly up to par. It was just initially hard to tell do to the coloring of the plastic
I'm not fully convinced yet. And casting properties were described as a reason not to have differently coloured plastics by...some guy talking about some KS
Anyhow, did the PM, bit the pillow and got the Ram Clan. It seems to be quite expensive compared to othet CMON expansions, $ per unique sculpt and per mini, even with cards considered. And the Hel soldier and dwarf are ugly. They won't care about me not giving them more money fpr gouging, so I added it, in part because the shipping was NINE $$$. Less than the estimate. Good and bad canceling each other out, Ying and Yang, world peace, whatever. Rams are metal as Hel.
The production samples, "low" pledge and positive gameplay impression and, to be honest, the short-ish estimated game lenght pushed me over the edge. I just wish the Euro hadn't imploded. That 1$ pledge didn't get cheaper
PS: After Mad Max I'm thinking of sculpting a "Doof Bard" as a token, maybe the saga token?
We are still on track for fulfillment in September. So far, so good.
Earlier someone posited that Blood Rage would arrive before Kingdom Death : Monster. KD:M is packaging wave 1 and sending that boat to the US in a week. Blood Rage isn't at the packaging stage. KD:M should be delivering wave 1 before Blood Rage, but KD:M is going to be 2 waves, so Blood Rage should complete delivery before KD:M.
We are still on track for fulfillment in September. So far, so good.
Earlier someone posited that Blood Rage would arrive before Kingdom Death : Monster. KD:M is packaging wave 1 and sending that boat to the US in a week. Blood Rage isn't at the packaging stage. KD:M should be delivering wave 1 before Blood Rage, but KD:M is going to be 2 waves, so Blood Rage should complete delivery before KD:M.
Looks like they may have copies of Rum & Bones at GenCon too. Not quite sure.
100 pre-release sets have been sourced to sell at gencon (not from the KS production run or funds, and none of the expansions or exclusive will be there)
and it has not gone down well with many of the KS backers despite a very clear statement that warned everybody it might (would) happen
From the bottom of the campaign page:
"Please note that while we do our best to get you your rewards in a timely manner, you may not necessarily receive your rewards before the product makes it into distribution in your own country or before it's made available in conventions and special promotion opportunities. We hope that the special price and exclusive items you will get during the Kickstarter will make up for any such possible lag. However, if this is something that is not acceptable to you, please do not back this project, and instead wait for the retail release. Thank you for your understanding."
so once again kids, read those KS campaign pages all the way to the bottom.
I generally give companies a pass on delays, but I'm very happy to give them grief when they break promises made during the campaign, but please don't get upset when they do exactly what they said they were going to
100 pre-release sets have been sourced to sell at gencon (not from the KS production run or funds, and none of the expansions or exclusive will be there)
and it has not gone down well with many of the KS backers despite a very clear statement that warned everybody it might (would) happen
From the bottom of the campaign page:
"Please note that while we do our best to get you your rewards in a timely manner, you may not necessarily receive your rewards before the product makes it into distribution in your own country or before it's made available in conventions and special promotion opportunities. We hope that the special price and exclusive items you will get during the Kickstarter will make up for any such possible lag. However, if this is something that is not acceptable to you, please do not back this project, and instead wait for the retail release. Thank you for your understanding."
so once again kids, read those KS campaign pages all the way to the bottom.
I generally give companies a pass on delays, but I'm very happy to give them grief when they break promises made during the campaign, but please don't get upset when they do exactly what they said they were going to
So CMoN is pulling a Palladium?
Except that CMoN has the management, manufacturing, and logistical competence to actually deliver these copies to GenCon, whereas the fethups at Palladium talked a good game, but weren't even close to delivering RRT to GenCon after their rigged poll.
Except that CMoN has the management, manufacturing, and logistical competence to actually deliver these copies to GenCon, whereas the fethups at Palladium talked a good game, but weren't even close to delivering RRT to GenCon after their rigged poll.
Are they really pulling an anything?
They airshipped some copies over for GenCon (at great cost).
They put it clearly in the campaign page that backers may not get theirs first.
People can be mad all they want, I suppose...but I'm not sure it'll change anything....
And like I said...it's not even an instance where the game is late....
Except that CMoN has the management, manufacturing, and logistical competence to actually deliver these copies to GenCon, whereas the fethups at Palladium talked a good game, but weren't even close to delivering RRT to GenCon after their rigged poll.
Are they really pulling an anything?
They airshipped some copies over for GenCon (at great cost).
They put it clearly in the campaign page that backers may not get theirs first.
People can be mad all they want, I suppose...but I'm not sure it'll change anything....
And like I said...it's not even an instance where the game is late....
They did this with Rum & Bones too... It did have one effect though, I will no longer be supporting CMoN in their kickstarters.
But yeah, I'm with you there - I want a viable game and gaming community for the stuff I back, so by all means, take it, promote it and sell it at GENCON!
They did this with Rum & Bones too... It did have one effect though, I will no longer be supporting CMoN in their kickstarters.
I mean, IMO that's your loss.
Reads pretty clearly, in black and white, on the KS page.
I think any company that is able should take and sell product at GenCon.
I think Prodos should sell copies of AVP if they have them.
I thought Flying Frog should have sold Shadows of Brimstone last year.
I'm backers on both of those products.
But then again, I'm not afflicted with "gotta have it first" syndrome.
I think they should finish fufilling their Kickstarters before they start worrying about other people. It's not about a "gotta have it first syndrome" it's about fuffilling one responsiblity before worrying about or taking on another. They could have prevented this by doing what they've done in the past, sell it to people at Gencon but let backers pick up their copy as well, meet backers halfway instead of completly putting them on the back burner. It's a matter of perception.
If the sucess of their game is dependent on being able to sell 100 copies at Gencon then I seriously call into question their buisness model.
I have less of a problem with companies taking a small amount of their new games to a super important yearly event to start getting public interest than if those same games were all hitting retail channels before backers received it.
So long as I get a good sized discount, I suppose I don't mind too much. If Gencon folks get it at the same price as I do, I'd be really ticked since I am taking the risk with my money and effectively lending out for a long time, but so long as the difference in me getting it and people at Gencon getting it is only a month or two, I am not too bothered.
Wehrkind wrote: So long as I get a good sized discount, I suppose I don't mind too much. If Gencon folks get it at the same price as I do, I'd be really ticked since I am taking the risk with my money and effectively lending out for a long time, but so long as the difference in me getting it and people at Gencon getting it is only a month or two, I am not too bothered.
Nothing is EVER discounted at GenCon. Not even at 1pm on Sunday.
Getting a new game at GenCon is about getting it first. Unless it's a GenCon Exclusive, which to my knowledge only Wyrd and Privateer have right now (or at least that I'm interested in).
There's a good chance I'll take home copies of each, despite having my KSes still coming.
I was even giving consideration to raffling those copies off. Not sure anymore :/
Catyrpelius wrote: It's about fuffilling one responsiblity before worrying about or taking on another..
Except that the "responsibility" is whatever the creator wants.
KS is there for the creators. The *only* thing you can count on in a crowdfunded project is that the backers give money to the creator. Anything else are promises and assumptions, neither of which are reliable.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I have less of a problem with companies taking a small amount of their new games to a super important yearly event to start getting public interest than if those same games were all hitting retail channels before backers received it.
Complaining about it when this was clearly posted on the campaign page:
Please note that while we do our best to get you your rewards in a timely manner, you may not necessarily receive your rewards before the product makes it into distribution in your own country or before it's made available in conventions and special promotion opportunities. We hope that the special price and exclusive items you will get during the Kickstarter will make up for any such possible lag. However, if this is something that is not acceptable to you, please do not back this project, and instead wait for the retail release. Thank you for your understanding.
Par for the CMON course. They're one of the first KS to have backers pay their own shipping. Their customer service consists of an acknowledgement email. They still have Early Birds that fill up in seconds.
I'm a sucker for "bucket-o-mini's", so backed Z:BP. Otherwise, it's an OLGS sale for anything CMON.
now I know this will never fulfill, 
answer, but instead they bring up the fact that THEY pay the shipping from the manufacturer to their distribution center 
