Switch Theme:

Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit  [RSS] 

Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:42:23


Post by: Red Corsair


 Grimgold wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
What's the range on Counter Tactics, though?


12", but that's plenty for most in your face special characters like mortarion or Dante.


Mortarion and Dante are scary because they wreck you themselves. The characters your going to see more often are buffing tank lines and in castles with screens. Your never debuffing those fellas.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:47:28


Post by: mhalko1


Talent for Annihilation - 1 CP
"Mephrit Stratagem"

-Use this before a MEPHRIT unit from your army attacks in the Shooting phase. Each time you make an unmodified hit roll of 6 for a model in that unit, you can make one additional hit roll for that model with the same weapon against the same target. These additional hit rolls cannot themselves generate any further hit rolls.

SO - correct me if I'm wrong-- You could use this on Tesla Immortals. The 6's would add 2 hits from the Tesla rule, then you roll the additional hit rolls for the stratagem. The stratagem can't generate more hit rolls. BUT those new 6's could generate 2 more Tesla hits. Am I seeing this correct or is this incorrect?

I'll explain the way I am thinking of it in my head. You aren't generating more hit rolls but you are generating more automatic hits. I hope I'm not being TFG by thinking this way.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:49:49


Post by: vipoid


 Red Corsair wrote:
@ Vpoid I mean your examining Immotek with extreme prejudiced


If this is how you want to play it, fine. I will assume that every one of your posts is written from a malicious standpoint.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I am being objective.


If you want to be objective (or at least maintain the pretence that you are), perhaps you shouldn't assume the mindsets of others?

 Red Corsair wrote:
He is an incredible buy for an army if you are looking at acquiring CP's and having a buff character.


So long as you don't mind spending a lot of points on HQs, sure.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Of course you can always take a bare bones battalion for 335. But it won't add much to your army beyond CP's. Perhaps this is an option if your spamming destroyers from another detachment, but now your army is incredibly thin on the ground and won't have much board control.


I'm struggling to understand your point here. Surely the point of taking bare-bones HQs is that you have more points to spend on other choices instead? Hence, I don't understand why the rest of the Battalion would be bare-bones? I'm not even sure there'd be much point in taking a Battalion like that in the first place.


Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Here's another way I'm looking at Imotekh:

Assuming you wanted a Battalion and at least one other 1 CP detachment, he can take the place of 2 HQs for a similar price.

Say you have 3 troops and 3 Elites for a 7 CP army. You need 3 HQs for this. Or you could just take Imotekh and one HQ and keep it as a Battalion- it will be a similar cost and the same amount of CPs.


But you could also just drop the third HQ altogether. You'd miss out on 1CP, but you'd have ~100pts to spend on something else instead.


Actually, let me just make my position clear: I like Imotekh. This is probably the best he's ever been and, since I own the model anyway, I'm sure I'll be trying him out.

Also, in terms of points, I think he's much better than 2 Overlords.

My issue with him is that I don't find myself taking 2 Overlords in the first place. And, whilst he definitely brings a lot more than an Overlord for his cost, I'm not convinced that the extra 100pts wouldn't be better spend on non-HQ models.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:51:42


Post by: Red Corsair


mhalko1 wrote:
Talent for Annihilation - 1 CP
"Mephrit Stratagem"

-Use this before a MEPHRIT unit from your army attacks in the Shooting phase. Each time you make an unmodified hit roll of 6 for a model in that unit, you can make one additional hit roll for that model with the same weapon against the same target. These additional hit rolls cannot themselves generate any further hit rolls.

SO - correct me if I'm wrong-- You could use this on Tesla Immortals. The 6's would add 2 hits from the Tesla rule, then you roll the additional hit rolls for the stratagem. The stratagem can't generate more hit rolls. BUT those new 6's could generate 2 more Tesla hits. Am I seeing this correct or is this incorrect?

I'll explain the way I am thinking of it in my head. You aren't generating more hit rolls but you are generating more automatic hits. I hope I'm not being TFG by thinking this way.


Nah, you shoot 10 shots for example and lets say you get 3 unmodified 6's, you then make 3 more hit rolls for those. Then you would apply any arks.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:57:17


Post by: Necronplayer


 Red Corsair wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Here's another way I'm looking at Imotekh:

Assuming you wanted a Battalion and at least one other 1 CP detachment, he can take the place of 2 HQs for a similar price.

Say you have 3 troops and 3 Elites for a 7 CP army. You need 3 HQs for this. Or you could just take Imotekh and one HQ and keep it as a Battalion- it will be a similar cost and the same amount of CPs.

Taken like this he seems a decent choice. The problem I've been having is that if I'm writing a list where I need 3 HQ's, I can't justify making one of them cost 200pts. The tax is already way too high.

So, while he seems pretty good on paper, it's really a question of how he fits into the detachments you're taking as to whether or not you want him. Most of the time his +1CP won't be a bonus, it will just make him an equal choice compared with 2 cheaper HQs.


He works best in a battalion that your fleshing out. If all your trying to do is farm CP's taking thin battalions then he won't be worth it. I also really like his storm ability though, something that think other posters are really underestimating. It's literally a big smite with 48 inch range that you pick the target as long as it isn't a character below 10 wounds, that then little smites on a 16% chance anything nearby. How this can wilfully be ignored as piece of the equation is bizarre to me.


So what I'm getting from this, if you have more than one dynasty you want to soup, you need multiple detachments(3HQs, if choosing battalion). This is looking like 350+ points in HQ slots if you bring Imotekh. That is a lot of points put into what we can say are mostly buff bots. If you don't bring him, then somewhere closer to 225 points in HQs.

On the other hand, I think he would be near best in slot if you're only going for a single dynasty army. Necrons are expensive enough as it is, so you'll likely just bring a batallion in this case. And for the points you already mentioned, he has the efficiency of 2 HQs, a CP, and cool ability all rolled up into one.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:59:03


Post by: Requizen


CCBs are quite decent, and but don't compare that well to something like a Shield Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike. Less attacks is painful, as is the innate lack of an Invuln. You can kit out 1 CCB to get 4++ and potentially some extra attacks, but can't bring multiple fast hunting Characters.

Granted it's not a 1 to 1 comparison, they're built for different tasks and different Codices. I think you could potentially build a decent list with 2-3 CCBs and some screening units like Wraiths/Tomb Blades/Scarabs, or just Deep Striking things nearby.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 17:00:42


Post by: vipoid


Any thoughts on the artefacts?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 17:05:06


Post by: Acehilator


Nobody thinking about Mephrit for Deceiver bomb, useable for alpha and beta strike depending on enemy deployment and who goes first?

Mephrit Batallion:

CCB /w whatever (Tesla Cannon + Staff of Light I guess)
Lord /w Staff of Light, Orb & Veil of Darkness
3x 10 Immortals /w Tesla
Deceiver

Point cost: 1014 (+307 for an optional full unit of Destroyers with one Heavy Destroyer, see below)

- during deployment, hide all units except the CCB, screen it with Scarabs or whatever near your frontline
- after game start, use Deceiver to move him and two Immortal units (should be doable with CP reroll) into position for later
- start of your turn, MWBD x2 with "Phaerons Will" stratagem, should work with the 12" range on Wave of Command
- movement phase, move first two Immortal units into position less than 12" away from targets
- end of the movement phase, teleport Lord and the third unit of Immortals into position, should be possible to get the Lord into postion to grant rerolls to two units at least (and use the Orb on two units next turn)
- kill ALL THE THINGS, possibly using "Solar Flare" and "Talent for Annihilation" statagems (ignore cover on one enemy unit, and additional hits on 6s)

You can still drop in a unit of Destroyers with "Translocation Crypt" and buff them with "Extermination Protocols". CP heavy obviously, but kills a lot of stuff - 27 MEQ for the Immortals alone with just 2x MWBD (other buffs not factored in), the Destroyers kill a tank most likely. And at least the participating units are safe from the enemy at the same time. Gets interesting if going up against a list running something similar (any version of Nids Flyrants + Jormungandr tunnel bomb, or BA "Descent of Angels" Death Company/Sanguinary Guard bomb). Comes down to who blinks first, lol.

A Nephrekh detachment for the Destroyers is a pretty much a given, so maybe:

Nephrekh Outrider
Illiminor Szeras - 143
Destroyers - 307
Scarabs - 117
Scarabs - 117

684, plus 1014 for the Batallion, leaves 302. Not sure what to do with that yet.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 17:07:13


Post by: mhalko1


 Red Corsair wrote:
mhalko1 wrote:
Talent for Annihilation - 1 CP
"Mephrit Stratagem"

-Use this before a MEPHRIT unit from your army attacks in the Shooting phase. Each time you make an unmodified hit roll of 6 for a model in that unit, you can make one additional hit roll for that model with the same weapon against the same target. These additional hit rolls cannot themselves generate any further hit rolls.

SO - correct me if I'm wrong-- You could use this on Tesla Immortals. The 6's would add 2 hits from the Tesla rule, then you roll the additional hit rolls for the stratagem. The stratagem can't generate more hit rolls. BUT those new 6's could generate 2 more Tesla hits. Am I seeing this correct or is this incorrect?

I'll explain the way I am thinking of it in my head. You aren't generating more hit rolls but you are generating more automatic hits. I hope I'm not being TFG by thinking this way.


Nah, you shoot 10 shots for example and lets say you get 3 unmodified 6's, you then make 3 more hit rolls for those. Then you would apply any arks.


Well yes you would set the +2 hits from arks aside as they are automatic hits and for each 6 you roll you roll the additional hit. BUT my question is whether or not the generated extra hit rolls can generate extra arks since they aren't generating more hit rolls they are generating more hits.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 17:07:15


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


Veil seems to be better than all the rest.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 17:09:37


Post by: Red Corsair


@Vpoid I didn't mean extreme prejudice the way your taking it mate. It's a colloquial term. It means your being hyper efficient and vigilant in your task. Which then came off bizarre to me when you said you would take a destroyer lord just because.

Never assumed your mindset, I questioned your own words. Your responsible for whatever mindset your in, not me. just like I am for myself. No need to make things personal when they aren't.

BTW this is the second time now you have argued in circles with me about a unit, only to basically concede. I never said he was an auto take in every list. Of course you need to plug him into a list he works best with...



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Necronplayer wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Here's another way I'm looking at Imotekh:

Assuming you wanted a Battalion and at least one other 1 CP detachment, he can take the place of 2 HQs for a similar price.

Say you have 3 troops and 3 Elites for a 7 CP army. You need 3 HQs for this. Or you could just take Imotekh and one HQ and keep it as a Battalion- it will be a similar cost and the same amount of CPs.

Taken like this he seems a decent choice. The problem I've been having is that if I'm writing a list where I need 3 HQ's, I can't justify making one of them cost 200pts. The tax is already way too high.

So, while he seems pretty good on paper, it's really a question of how he fits into the detachments you're taking as to whether or not you want him. Most of the time his +1CP won't be a bonus, it will just make him an equal choice compared with 2 cheaper HQs.


He works best in a battalion that your fleshing out. If all your trying to do is farm CP's taking thin battalions then he won't be worth it. I also really like his storm ability though, something that think other posters are really underestimating. It's literally a big smite with 48 inch range that you pick the target as long as it isn't a character below 10 wounds, that then little smites on a 16% chance anything nearby. How this can wilfully be ignored as piece of the equation is bizarre to me.


So what I'm getting from this, if you have more than one dynasty you want to soup, you need multiple detachments(3HQs, if choosing battalion). This is looking like 350+ points in HQ slots if you bring Imotekh. That is a lot of points put into what we can say are mostly buff bots. If you don't bring him, then somewhere closer to 225 points in HQs.

On the other hand, I think he would be near best in slot if you're only going for a single dynasty army. Necrons are expensive enough as it is, so you'll likely just bring a batallion in this case. And for the points you already mentioned, he has the efficiency of 2 HQs, a CP, and cool ability all rolled up into one.



Exactly. And because of the insane start up costs for the crons, I am starting to think Necron Salad as it was termed is a bad idea. You end up taxing the crap out of your list one way or another. You either go cheap battalion at which point your not using the characters buffs and it makes the tax that much worse. Or you go for Outrider, spearhead and vanguard and don't bother with a battalion, just take the cake from whatever dynasty your after, and live with not having many CP's or more then likely the Hyperlogical Strategist WLT. Sautek isn't horrible for a spearhead but spearhead is the least appealing to me personally.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 17:47:28


Post by: vict0988


Maybe those 30 Tomb Blades I bought at the release of the last codex will come in handy anyways. Still haven't assembled them though.

I don't get why you are suddenly talking about taking Lords, I thought everyone agreed they were trash?

Gotta admit I'm disappointed with this thing, increasing the cost of Wraiths this much is stupid, people were saying they were bad FFS, I know they were awesome, but when half the community thinks it's a bad choice maybe don't increase the cost by more than 20%? The lack of a nerf to Scarabs just means that it's going to be all Scarabs all day.

The lack of a buff to the Monolith is laughable, I have to be missing something right?

They also buffed the wrong Cryptek, I mean wth is going on?

Maynarkh is also going to be utterly useless, just like the Krieg, which is nice, or something?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 17:50:16


Post by: Requizen


 vipoid wrote:
Any thoughts on the artefacts?


I'm curious how it'll pan out.

Veil of Darkness has an edge by being the only utility piece. Everything else is some sort of weapon or armor, but Veil is useful even if you are relying on your Characters to support rather than fight. I suppose Orb of Eternity is also a support option, but Res Orbs in general aren't great.

As I don't think our HQs are particularly amazing beatsticks, if not the Veil I would go for either a ranged weapon or an armor type, leaning towards the former. Voltaic Staff is just a Gauss Cannon that your DLord or CCB can fire without -1 to hit, so that's good. Solar Staff is likely better, with more shots and a -1 Hit debuff. Abyssal is, imo, too situational and RNG reliant, though not terrible. Gauntlet of the Conflagrator is pretty bad unless your meta is nothing but hordes.

As far as the armor types go, I would rank them 4++ >= Sempiternal >= Timesplinter > 2+ > Nanoscarab. In my book, preventative is better than reactive, so while the healing from Nanoscarab is cool, if you die it doesn't do anything half the time. Invulns, boosted stats, and 5+++ are great. 2+ is nearly as good, but I think it does less overall unless you're facing lots of AP0 (which isn't the meta). Timesplinter or Nanoscarab might be the better choice if you're facing lots of MWs.

The two Warscythes are fairly similar. Blood Scythe is better when facing more bodies, Voidreaper is better when facing tougher things. I personally don't think I'd pick a melee artifact most of the time. Edit: I might consider Blood Scythe if going full Novokh, to be fair. If your entire strategy is melee, it's quite good, though I don't think that's a viable build.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 17:51:49


Post by: Therion


I've been brainstorming, here's my random 2k lists

-18 destroyers, 15 immortals, 9 tomb blades, deceiver, 2 crypteks, destroyer lord
-3 tesseract vaults, 15 immortals, 2 crypteks, 6 scarab swarms
-18 destroyers, 15 immortals, 2 crypteks, ccb, tesseract vault

I can't think of anything that works superbly well. Just 'ok'. Maybe that's good for the game.

I appreciate those 'Deceiver bomb' ideas based on the Tesla Immortals, but I just don't have a lot of faith in footslogging infantry with let's face it short range weaponry and no 'fly' or other escapes. Tyranids send units halfway across the galaxy to tie everything (40" moves and 2D6" charge), BA Captains, Dawneagles, etc. everything murder elite infantry that's footslogging around trying to look cool.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 17:57:13


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 Grimgold wrote:


Scarabs, I hesitate to put them in the loser category because we weren't relying on them to be offensive powerhouses, so the weapon skill nerf doesn't really affect their main role. Still, there were quite a few situations where their number of attacks and 3+ weapon skill might turn the tide of a fight, and now they are less likely to do that.



Did you forget you can sacrifice one at the cost of a single CP to deal D3 mortal wounds?
That's pretty handy.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 17:57:47


Post by: Zimko


I think monoliths did get a buff since you can bring in 2 units (with a strategem) and teleport a 3rd unit from another place on the board... all on the same turn. Seems like a big buff from just 1 unit in the index.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 17:58:53


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 vict0988 wrote:
Maybe those 30 Tomb Blades I bought at the release of the last codex will come in handy anyways. Still haven't assembled them though.

I don't get why you are suddenly talking about taking Lords, I thought everyone agreed they were trash?

Gotta admit I'm disappointed with this thing, increasing the cost of Wraiths this much is stupid, people were saying they were bad FFS, I know they were awesome, but when half the community thinks it's a bad choice maybe don't increase the cost by more than 20%? The lack of a nerf to Scarabs just means that it's going to be all Scarabs all day.

The lack of a buff to the Monolith is laughable, I have to be missing something right?

They also buffed the wrong Cryptek, I mean wth is going on?

Maynarkh is also going to be utterly useless, just like the Krieg, which is nice, or something?

We are talking about Lords because their aura is suddenly not useless.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 18:09:52


Post by: buddha


SM gunlines don't find lieutenants useless which holds the same for necrons which are inherently shooty.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 18:14:17


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


The Storm is really good, it's more akin to laying two smites on any target you want, sans characters.

I guess the Deciever is our answer for screening?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 18:36:38


Post by: Requizen


CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Did you forget you can sacrifice one at the cost of a single CP to deal D3 mortal wounds?
That's pretty handy.

1CP for d3MWs which can fail 1/6 of the time. And you die whether it fails or not. It's neat, but I'd usually not spend a CP on it.
Zimko wrote:I think monoliths did get a buff since you can bring in 2 units (with a strategem) and teleport a 3rd unit from another place on the board... all on the same turn. Seems like a big buff from just 1 unit in the index.

They're buffed, sure. But it's still extremely expensive and does little to nothing the turn it comes in. 380 is a lot of points for what amounts to a teleport beacon with some decent shooting.
buddha wrote:SM gunlines don't find lieutenants useless which holds the same for necrons which are inherently shooty.

Eh, sorta? Lieutenants are better for low shot high quality shooting (Devastators, Hellblasters, etc), which we don't have. DLord is nice with Destroyers, sure, but foot Lords buffing Immortals/Warriors isn't going to take the world by storm.
Halfpast_Yellow wrote:I guess the Deciever is our answer for screening?


Sure, it does the job and the Deceiver himself is pretty solid between his stats and the new powers. Depends on what you're facing, of course - Scouts and Nurglings will block your blockers since they are anywhere on the board during deployment, and other Infiltrators like Raven Guard/Alpha Legion happen at the same time as you. His utility does make him fairly attractive, though, even though I wish it was a flat 2 or 3 units and not a d3.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 18:56:08


Post by: Dudeface


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
Maybe those 30 Tomb Blades I bought at the release of the last codex will come in handy anyways. Still haven't assembled them though.

I don't get why you are suddenly talking about taking Lords, I thought everyone agreed they were trash?

Gotta admit I'm disappointed with this thing, increasing the cost of Wraiths this much is stupid, people were saying they were bad FFS, I know they were awesome, but when half the community thinks it's a bad choice maybe don't increase the cost by more than 20%? The lack of a nerf to Scarabs just means that it's going to be all Scarabs all day.

The lack of a buff to the Monolith is laughable, I have to be missing something right?

They also buffed the wrong Cryptek, I mean wth is going on?

Maynarkh is also going to be utterly useless, just like the Krieg, which is nice, or something?

We are talking about Lords because their aura is suddenly not useless.


Also the output on wraiths jumped up notably and they became a lot more mobile and abusable. They can now advance and charge and then benefit from any number of buffs depending which codes you take or which characters buff them + pick up RP


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 19:08:34


Post by: Necronplayer


Point for point, I believe a unit of regular destroyers is our most efficient anti vehicle with the use of the RR failed hits and wounds 1CP strategem. Some mathhammer below:

Against a T7 3+ target:
Destroyers w/ RR 1s to hit takes 38.57 points per unsaved wound
Destroyers w/ RR strategem takes 20.25 points per unsaved wound

Heavy destroyers w/ RR 1s to hit takes 31.41 points per unsaved wound
Heavy destroyers w/ RR stratagem takes 20.61 points per unsaved wound

DDA w/ dynasty RR 1s to hit takes 30.38 points per unsaved wound

Pylon w/ dynasty RR 1s to hit takes 30.31 points per unsaved wound
Pylon w/ dynasty RR 1s to hit takes 24.24 points per unsaved wound (flyers)


Also, worthy to note, that 1CP boosts the destroyers efficiency by 90.5%. So for 300 points into a unit of destroyers, that 1CP spent has a value of 271 points.

Obviously, there are range differences with each, and extra RNG for some options, but if you get into range with them (I'm thinking deep strike stategem), they will live up to their name.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 19:12:10


Post by: Requizen


So you could do things like take Deceiver + Monolith, and then put the Monolith anywhere on the board T1 and spit out 3 units via Strats. The ones teleported via Dimensional Corridor can even move afterwards, which isn't terrible.

Warming a bit to the Monolith. It's still far too expensive, but can be made to work with a decentralized list that wants to teleport around the board. However, I'm not convinced that type of list can realistically work for several reasons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
Maybe those 30 Tomb Blades I bought at the release of the last codex will come in handy anyways. Still haven't assembled them though.

I don't get why you are suddenly talking about taking Lords, I thought everyone agreed they were trash?

Gotta admit I'm disappointed with this thing, increasing the cost of Wraiths this much is stupid, people were saying they were bad FFS, I know they were awesome, but when half the community thinks it's a bad choice maybe don't increase the cost by more than 20%? The lack of a nerf to Scarabs just means that it's going to be all Scarabs all day.

The lack of a buff to the Monolith is laughable, I have to be missing something right?

They also buffed the wrong Cryptek, I mean wth is going on?

Maynarkh is also going to be utterly useless, just like the Krieg, which is nice, or something?

We are talking about Lords because their aura is suddenly not useless.


Also the output on wraiths jumped up notably and they became a lot more mobile and abusable. They can now advance and charge and then benefit from any number of buffs depending which codes you take or which characters buff them + pick up RP


I'm not convinced the output of the Wraiths jumped notably. The extra AP is better than the damage, because D2 does nothing against single wound models, which is still a huge amount of units in the game. Depends on the target.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 19:23:40


Post by: Dionysodorus


Necronplayer wrote:
Point for point, I believe a unit of regular destroyers is our most efficient anti vehicle with the use of the RR failed hits and wounds 1CP strategem. Some mathhammer below:

Against a T7 3+ target:
Destroyers w/ RR 1s to hit takes 38.57 points per unsaved wound
Destroyers w/ RR strategem takes 20.25 points per unsaved wound

Heavy destroyers w/ RR 1s to hit takes 31.41 points per unsaved wound
Heavy destroyers w/ RR stratagem takes 20.61 points per unsaved wound

DDA w/ dynasty RR 1s to hit takes 30.38 points per unsaved wound

Pylon w/ dynasty RR 1s to hit takes 30.31 points per unsaved wound
Pylon w/ dynasty RR 1s to hit takes 24.24 points per unsaved wound (flyers)


Also, worthy to note, that 1CP boosts the destroyers efficiency by 90.5%. So for 300 points into a unit of destroyers, that 1CP spent has a value of 271 points.

Obviously, there are range differences with each, and extra RNG for some options, but if you get into range with them (I'm thinking deep strike stategem), they will live up to their name.

Yeah, I feel like 1 unit of deep-striking Destroyers is a pretty easy pick, provided you can find room for the detachment. I'm not nearly as impressed with them without the stratagem, so I'm reluctant to take more than one unit. Unfortunately unless you're going for something very specific you probably don't want that code on very many things. But Scarabs are pretty promising with it since you mostly want them for movement anyway, and occasionally the ability to guarantee a 16" flying move and then still charge will be incredible.

Maybe something like:
Sautekh Battalion:
Imotekh
Lord
23 Immortals
3 DDAs

Nephrekh Outrider:
Cryptek
3 Scarabs
6 Destroyers
9 Tomb Blades

Where you could drop a DDA or the Tomb Blades to find room for other stuff. It might make sense to drop off a bunch of Warriors with the Destroyers. Or move the Tomb Blades to Sautekh to benefit from their stratagem.

I feel like the DDAs are pretty promising too. You don't necessarily have to just keep them sitting in your deployment zone all game -- in many games it probably makes sense to move them aggressively on turn 1 to leverage their flayers. The low power cannon is still pretty solid against many targets.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 19:29:45


Post by: iGuy91


I had a goofy sort of list idea using the Mephrit dynasty. Might be too expensive though

x4 Night Scythes
4x10 Immortals with Gauss Blasters

If one scythe gets shot down, use the strat to have 2 units pop out into rapid fire range. Dump 80 STR 5 AP -3 shots into targets of choice from up close where to hit modifiers won't be in effect.
Added bonus, Night Scythes got cheaper, and have that -1 to hit them to help keep them alive.

I'm imagining the rest of the list being long range shooting and scarab screens to keep them firing, and destroyers.
I used to run this in 5th and 6th ed, and had a lot of fun with it. Would this be the new incarnation?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 19:34:58


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


The Sautekh Bat + Nephkreh Outrider is where my thoughts are at too. I'm still undecided on the Tomb Blades as part of it... maybe the Deciever + Scarabs instead. Redeploying 2 DDA or setting out scarab denial could be clutch.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 19:41:04


Post by: Red Corsair


If I was inclined to Deceiver a big model I would probaly do it toe the vault over the monolith. It gets all the weapons in optimal range and the two of them will demand a ton of attention.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 19:41:32


Post by: Acehilator


 iGuy91 wrote:
I had a goofy sort of list idea using the Mephrit dynasty. Might be too expensive though

x4 Night Scythes
4x10 Immortals with Gauss Blasters

If one scythe gets shot down, use the strat to have 2 units pop out into rapid fire range. Dump 80 STR 5 AP -3 shots into targets of choice from up close where to hit modifiers won't be in effect.
Added bonus, Night Scythes got cheaper, and have that -1 to hit them to help keep them alive.

I'm imagining the rest of the list being long range shooting and scarab screens to keep them firing, and destroyers.
I used to run this in 5th and 6th ed, and had a lot of fun with it. Would this be the new incarnation?


Gauss Blasters lose against Tesla even vs MEQ where you can make use of the AP -3, so vs GEQ or god help Ork Boys or Gants it gets even worse. Or vs Stealers/Demons/Poxwalkers for that matter.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 19:42:46


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Acehilator wrote:
 iGuy91 wrote:
I had a goofy sort of list idea using the Mephrit dynasty. Might be too expensive though

x4 Night Scythes
4x10 Immortals with Gauss Blasters

If one scythe gets shot down, use the strat to have 2 units pop out into rapid fire range. Dump 80 STR 5 AP -3 shots into targets of choice from up close where to hit modifiers won't be in effect.
Added bonus, Night Scythes got cheaper, and have that -1 to hit them to help keep them alive.

I'm imagining the rest of the list being long range shooting and scarab screens to keep them firing, and destroyers.
I used to run this in 5th and 6th ed, and had a lot of fun with it. Would this be the new incarnation?


Gauss Blasters lose against Tesla even vs MEQ where you can make use of the AP -3, so vs GEQ or god help Ork Boys or Gants it gets even worse. Or vs Stealers/Demons/Poxwalkers for that matter.

I'm not sure where you got that math as, when in Rapid Fire range, the Gauss Blasters entirely outdo the Tesla Carbines.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 19:44:46


Post by: Red Corsair


Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
The Sautekh Bat + Nephkreh Outrider is where my thoughts are at too. I'm still undecided on the Tomb Blades as part of it... maybe the Deciever + Scarabs instead. Redeploying 2 DDA or setting out scarab denial could be clutch.


Honestly I have cooled off on the bikes almost entirely. IDK, I still like them, but I struggle to put them into a list without wanting to take something else. They compete with the same roll as destroyers only they don't fill the wholes that destroyers do. I think the deceiver is practically must take from a competitive standpoint.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Acehilator wrote:
 iGuy91 wrote:
I had a goofy sort of list idea using the Mephrit dynasty. Might be too expensive though

x4 Night Scythes
4x10 Immortals with Gauss Blasters

If one scythe gets shot down, use the strat to have 2 units pop out into rapid fire range. Dump 80 STR 5 AP -3 shots into targets of choice from up close where to hit modifiers won't be in effect.
Added bonus, Night Scythes got cheaper, and have that -1 to hit them to help keep them alive.

I'm imagining the rest of the list being long range shooting and scarab screens to keep them firing, and destroyers.
I used to run this in 5th and 6th ed, and had a lot of fun with it. Would this be the new incarnation?


Gauss Blasters lose against Tesla even vs MEQ where you can make use of the AP -3, so vs GEQ or god help Ork Boys or Gants it gets even worse. Or vs Stealers/Demons/Poxwalkers for that matter.

I'm not sure where you got that math as, when in Rapid Fire range, the Gauss Blasters entirely outdo the Tesla Carbines.


He is probably assuming a lot of buffs for the telsa.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 19:48:04


Post by: JNAProductions


Same number of shots.

Each Gauss shot gets you 2/3 hits, which is 4/9 wounds, which is 20/54 or 10/27 damage.

Each Tesla shot gets you one hit, which is 2/3 wounds, which is 2/6 or 1/3 damage.

37% of a wound compared to 33%. Not THAT much better.

Edit: Add MWBD, and you get 5/6 Guass hits, 10/18 or 5/9 wounds, and 25/54 damage.

You get 3/2 Tesla hits, 1 wound, and 1/2 damage.

It's BETTER now.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 19:54:26


Post by: Necronplayer


Dionysodorus wrote:

Yeah, I feel like 1 unit of deep-striking Destroyers is a pretty easy pick, provided you can find room for the detachment. I'm not nearly as impressed with them without the stratagem, so I'm reluctant to take more than one unit. Unfortunately unless you're going for something very specific you probably don't want that code on very many things. But Scarabs are pretty promising with it since you mostly want them for movement anyway, and occasionally the ability to guarantee a 16" flying move and then still charge will be incredible.

Maybe something like:
Sautekh Battalion:
Imotekh
Lord
23 Immortals
3 DDAs

Nephrekh Outrider:
Cryptek
3 Scarabs
6 Destroyers
9 Tomb Blades

Where you could drop a DDA or the Tomb Blades to find room for other stuff. It might make sense to drop off a bunch of Warriors with the Destroyers. Or move the Tomb Blades to Sautekh to benefit from their stratagem.

I feel like the DDAs are pretty promising too. You don't necessarily have to just keep them sitting in your deployment zone all game -- in many games it probably makes sense to move them aggressively on turn 1 to leverage their flayers. The low power cannon is still pretty solid against many targets.


Definitely, but the destroyers wouldn't need the dynasty code; they have RR 1s already. I was just putting it on DDA and Pylon as a best case scenario for comparison.

Without the dynasty, DDA takes 35.45 points per unsaved wound.

Still a very solid unit that doesn't need external buffs. And I agree, the value on the destroyers is limited to one unit, so I'll likely only bring one unit of them.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:05:02


Post by: iGuy91


 iGuy91 wrote:
I had a goofy sort of list idea using the Mephrit dynasty. Might be too expensive though

x4 Night Scythes
4x10 Immortals with Gauss Blasters

If one scythe gets shot down, use the strat to have 2 units pop out into rapid fire range. Dump 80 STR 5 AP -3 shots into targets of choice from up close where to hit modifiers won't be in effect.
Added bonus, Night Scythes got cheaper, and have that -1 to hit them to help keep them alive.

I'm imagining the rest of the list being long range shooting and scarab screens to keep them firing, and destroyers.
I used to run this in 5th and 6th ed, and had a lot of fun with it. Would this be the new incarnation?


Gauss Blasters lose against Tesla even vs MEQ where you can make use of the AP -3, so vs GEQ or god help Ork Boys or Gants it gets even worse. Or vs Stealers/Demons/Poxwalkers for that matter.

I'm not sure where you got that math as, when in Rapid Fire range, the Gauss Blasters entirely outdo the Tesla Carbines.


He is probably assuming a lot of buffs for the telsa.


In this case, I am not factoring in *Any* MWBD on the Immortals. Without that buff, the blasters are more efficient. I run in a very marine heavy meta, so can-openers are important.
In this case, I'd likely be running a destroyer lord with destroyers, and a cloak cryptek to support them


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:05:26


Post by: Drakmord


I made a Sautekh Battalion + Nephrekh Outrider + Nephrekh LoW Aux, using the Pylon. I'd rather do Nihilakh on the Pylon but Nephrekh lets Toholk touch up on it.

List:
Spoiler:


Sautekh Battalion

HQ-
Imotekh the Stormlord (Warlord)
Lord w/ HPS, Resurrection Orb, Lightning Field
Cryptek w/ Chronometron, Staff of Light

Troops-
1x10 Immortals w/ Carbines
1x10 Immortals w/ Carbines
1x10 Immortals w/ Carbines


Nephrekh Outrider-

HQ-
Toholk the Blinded

Fast Attack
1x6 Destroyers
1x6 Scarabs
1x5 Scarabs


Nephrekh Superheavy Aux

1 Pylon

1999/2000
8 CP


I think it would work better in an armored list, either full Sautekh or Sautekh + Nihilakh as you would be able to leverage the Pylon's 5++ aura for your Doomsday Arks. However I want to try leveraging Nephrekh Destroyers in the list as well.

The Pylon really hurts other Lords of War, while the TVault performs much better against infantry, elite infantry and lighter vehicles/monsters. I prefer the Pylon but the TVault has been seriously improved in this leak.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:08:44


Post by: JNAProductions


Also, math against 4+ saves (T4 or T3, so Scions or Scouts):

2/3 hits, 4/9 wounds, 4/9 damage on Gauss.
1 hit, 2/3 wounds, 4/9 damage on Tesla.
Exact same.

2+ Saves?

2/3 hits, 4/9 wounds, 8/27 damage on Gauss.
1 hit, 2/3 wounds, 2/9 or 6/27 damage on Tesla.

So, against 2+ and 3+ AND within Rapid Fire range AND assuming you aren't buffing them... Gauss wins by a small amount (3+) and a reasonable amount (2+).


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:11:56


Post by: Lothmar


I'll admit im kind of sad they removed the BS from scarabs, especially since im hearing they didn't change the price. *sarc*

Kept holding out hope they'd consider giving a wargear option so each scarab had what equated to a tesla pistol when they fired together. RIP lightning bugs.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:13:12


Post by: SHADOWSTRIKE1


So is everyone still really against Warriors? I've been building up a 1500pts list for an upcoming local tournament and it includes a couple Warrior units.

Also, do we know how the Voidreaper functions? Is it a free replacement for the Warscythe? Didn't see it mentioned in the points list.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:16:02


Post by: iGuy91


 SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:
So is everyone still really against Warriors? I've been building up a 1500pts list for an upcoming local tournament and it includes a couple Warrior units.

Also, do we know how the Voidreaper functions? Is it a free replacement for the Warscythe? Didn't see it mentioned in the points list.



*EDIT*

Oh, the relic is a warscythe replacement. STR 7 vs vehicles, Wounds on 2s vs everything else, -4 AP, D3 damage


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:16:58


Post by: Da W


OK WHAT IF..... we use 5-immortals units?
Make 2 bataillons. 6 CP. 510 points spent.

I'm thinking you can disperse them all around the field. Have a few cryptek with them since it will need 4 HQ.

But guess is that people will tend to overshoot some units trying to whipe them all out, but will undershoot the rest. So if you have 1 immortal standing in 4 squads, that can be pretty serious RP!



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:17:07


Post by: punisher357


There's no way voidreaper will be free


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:20:26


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


punisher357 wrote:
There's no way voidreaper will be free


Its an artifact. It totally will be. Well, you do have to pay for a warscythe, but that's not much.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:23:10


Post by: iGuy91


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
punisher357 wrote:
There's no way voidreaper will be free


Its an artifact. It totally will be. Well, you do have to pay for a warscythe, but that's not much.


Yeah, 11 pts for that statline is a steal


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:24:26


Post by: Acehilator


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm not sure where you got that math as, when in Rapid Fire range, the Gauss Blasters entirely outdo the Tesla Carbines.


Offensive - damage output vs MEQ (rapid fire range - Mephrit code active - no MWBD):
Gauss Blaster: 20 shots - 13,34 hits - 8,89 wounds - 7,41 damage
Tesla Carbine: 20 shots - 13,34 base hits + (3,34 x 2 = 6,67 Tesla hits) = 20 total hits - 13,34 wounds - 6,67 damage

That is a strange definition of "entirely outdo". If your local meta is totally infested with SM ok, but apart from that... and the main problem is that without MWBD Immortal damage output is lacking anyways.
With MWBD those results would be 9,26 and 10. A difference worth talking about. Not sure if setting them up with flyers/Monolith is the way, when they cannot benefit from a big buff in the turn when it would be the most important.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:25:23


Post by: Lothmar


…Since the 'Phaerons will' strategy is use a characters MWBD ability for a second time in a turn, does that mean Imotekhs version that lets him MWBD 2 squads in a turn would let him MWBD 4 units if this was used?

Is the orb of eternity just a +1 rez orb, or is it Use the +1 effect once per battle and then it is still a rez orb so you can use that effect after?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:25:41


Post by: Ghaz


punisher357 wrote:
There's no way voidreaper will be free

I don't believe there's been a single relic that has a points cost beyond that of the weapon to be replaced in 8th edition.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:26:15


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 iGuy91 wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
punisher357 wrote:
There's no way voidreaper will be free


Its an artifact. It totally will be. Well, you do have to pay for a warscythe, but that's not much.


Yeah, 11 pts for that statline is a steal


Honestly, I really don't know what they were thinking with free artifacts. It feels...wrong.
Like, I get that you can only have 1 and you need to burn CP to get more, but it still doesn't feel right.
I mean, I get to do all sorts of crazy gak for free? That's just nonsense.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:28:30


Post by: Red Corsair


Da W wrote:
OK WHAT IF..... we use 5-immortals units?
Make 2 bataillons. 6 CP. 510 points spent.

I'm thinking you can disperse them all around the field. Have a few cryptek with them since it will need 4 HQ.

But guess is that people will tend to overshoot some units trying to whipe them all out, but will undershoot the rest. So if you have 1 immortal standing in 4 squads, that can be pretty serious RP!



Well after you factor in the 4 HQ your looking at a minimum of 830. And your basically fielding 30 space marines. Thats way too many points for what your getting. CP's are good, but not at the expense of your list.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:28:49


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


punisher357 wrote:
There's no way voidreaper will be free

The Voidreaper is nasty but I'm liking that Rampage equivalent one too. Destroyer Lords with that are hitting a great amount of the time (the 3+ rerolling ones is superior to the 2+ when you have one more attack in the first place).

That said I'm leaning towards the ghetto Celestine we can make instead with it. I know Celestine is already just stupid good in the first place (and already needed a price bump) but it would be an obnoxious tool (mostly for tying units up to prevent them from shooting) and one we wouldn't have to invest a lot in.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:30:23


Post by: ThePie


How does sautekh stratagem affect the tesla vs gauss math? Since you proc extra hits on 4+.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:37:40


Post by: Red Corsair


 ThePie wrote:
How does sautekh stratagem affect the tesla vs gauss math? Since you proc extra hits on 4+.



That stratagem is a trap IMO. First I need to damage my target, then invest 2 CP? That on top of using MWBD, thats just way to many pricy pieces for some s5 ap-. On paper it could delete alot of GEQ until you realize nobody is taking squads larger then 10 anymore. EDIT I shouldn't say nobody, you still see large cultist mobs but that is such a poor return on investment.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:40:38


Post by: Lothmar


Does the abysall staffs effect still work on low leadership model hordes that get artificial leadership like Nids / Orks?



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:43:51


Post by: Red Corsair


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
punisher357 wrote:
There's no way voidreaper will be free

The Voidreaper is nasty but I'm liking that Rampage equivalent one too. Destroyer Lords with that are hitting a great amount of the time (the 3+ rerolling ones is superior to the 2+ when you have one more attack in the first place).

That said I'm leaning towards the ghetto Celestine we can make instead with it. I know Celestine is already just stupid good in the first place (and already needed a price bump) but it would be an obnoxious tool (mostly for tying units up to prevent them from shooting) and one we wouldn't have to invest a lot in.


Honestly there are some tasty character builts, the mephrit CCB sniper, the Novohk murder machine or the unkillable Dlord. I can't find a list I want to slot them into is the trouble. I want DS'ing destroyers but I also want wraiths in my list and a few Novohk leaning choices. I'll probably sit on it all for a while and see what fits. What is cool though is that there are so many options that seem viable. I don't think necrons will be dominant at all but I still like what I am seeing quite a bit.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:52:01


Post by: Therion


The new level of top tier is very much hanging up in the air. The March Big Faq has the power to bring all the top builds down a notch. That in turn would make the new Tau and Necrons much more competitive.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:54:09


Post by: Lothmar


So with wraiths being able to duck out of combats and then charge back in after shooting it's not nearly as pressing that they take the pistol.

But comparatively, which do you think is the better shooting weapon for them? The pistol or the TransD beamer?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 20:56:10


Post by: Red Corsair


 Therion wrote:
The new level of top tier is very much hanging up in the air. The March Big Faq has the power to bring all the top builds down a notch. That in turn would make the new Tau and Necrons much more competitive.
This is my suspicion as well. I hope fpr the overall health of the game this is the case.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 21:01:58


Post by: Dionysodorus


 Red Corsair wrote:
 ThePie wrote:
How does sautekh stratagem affect the tesla vs gauss math? Since you proc extra hits on 4+.



That stratagem is a trap IMO. First I need to damage my target, then invest 2 CP? That on top of using MWBD, thats just way to many pricy pieces for some s5 ap-. On paper it could delete alot of GEQ until you realize nobody is taking squads larger then 10 anymore. EDIT I shouldn't say nobody, you still see large cultist mobs but that is such a poor return on investment.

This isn't how I envision using it though. Tesla at +1 is reasonably effective against all kinds of stuff, especially some of the things that you most want dead right away. Tesla Immortals at +1 are just as good as Destroyers at +1, and better than a DDA +1 at long range, for killing something like Mortarion. It's not a stratagem you'll use every game, but Tesla benefits so much from hit bonuses that it gives you a lot of extra firepower against really big targets when you need it.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 21:06:31


Post by: Punisher


Lothmar wrote:
So with wraiths being able to duck out of combats and then charge back in after shooting it's not nearly as pressing that they take the pistol.

But comparatively, which do you think is the better shooting weapon for them? The pistol or the TransD beamer?


The pistol is 10pts cheaper and isn't a heavy weapon. I want to like the beamer but it's just bad if you don't roll a 6 to wound. And that risk isn't worth the extra 10pts for a chance of a mortal wound. I'll probably still play around with it but it's not a competitive option at 14pts.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 21:08:34


Post by: Acehilator


 Red Corsair wrote:

Honestly there are some tasty character builts, the mephrit CCB sniper, the Novohk murder machine or the unkillable Dlord. I can't find a list I want to slot them into is the trouble. I want DS'ing destroyers but I also want wraiths in my list and a few Novohk leaning choices. I'll probably sit on it all for a while and see what fits. What is cool though is that there are so many options that seem viable. I don't think necrons will be dominant at all but I still like what I am seeing quite a bit.


Novokh is the only viable code for Wraiths anyways? Unless I am missing something? I mean we can't teleport in everything with Nephrekh "Translocation Crypt". The code bonus is amazing for Wraiths, they cannot make use of any other bonus, and the "Adaptive Subroutines" stratagem is universal. For most lists you want some Scarabs as well, Novokh is the best for them too, so Novokh Outrider all the way?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 21:21:52


Post by: Lothmar


...I kind of just realized that while the crypteks cloak isnt necessarily gonna help our general units save for maybe some leadership~ it is kind of amazing since it works on our vehicles.

1d3 vehicle repair per cryptek
1d3 heal from spyders
1d3 potential regen instead of standard 1 if using Toholk.

With the right cover setup and a GP (mainly there for vehicle invul) a DDA artillery base seems like a pretty interesting narrative/theme match.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 21:22:45


Post by: Red Corsair


Dionysodorus wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
 ThePie wrote:
How does sautekh stratagem affect the tesla vs gauss math? Since you proc extra hits on 4+.



That stratagem is a trap IMO. First I need to damage my target, then invest 2 CP? That on top of using MWBD, thats just way to many pricy pieces for some s5 ap-. On paper it could delete alot of GEQ until you realize nobody is taking squads larger then 10 anymore. EDIT I shouldn't say nobody, you still see large cultist mobs but that is such a poor return on investment.

This isn't how I envision using it though. Tesla at +1 is reasonably effective against all kinds of stuff, especially some of the things that you most want dead right away. Tesla Immortals at +1 are just as good as Destroyers at +1, and better than a DDA +1 at long range, for killing something like Mortarion. It's not a stratagem you'll use every game, but Tesla benefits so much from hit bonuses that it gives you a lot of extra firepower against really big targets when you need it.


Sorry didn't mean to insinuate you were going to misplay with it, just illustrating how strats like that can easily waste your CP's. I think your right on the money about having it in your bag of tricks for that right moment. You will also surprise your opponent more often using it that way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lothmar wrote:
...I kind of just realized that while the crypteks cloak isnt necessarily gonna help our general units save for maybe some leadership~ it is kind of amazing since it works on our vehicles.

1d3 vehicle repair per cryptek
1d3 heal from spyders
1d3 potential regen instead of standard 1 if using Toholk.

With the right cover setup and a GP (mainly there for vehicle invul) a DDA artillery base seems like a pretty interesting narrative/theme match.


I also think this is pretty hilarious on a TVault.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 21:37:22


Post by: Lothmar


Red-

True but the TV doesn't really fit a remain stationary and defend from range concept. But it does have its own invul so it doesn't need the GP aura.

Just trying to figure out how I could have a repair team safely tail the TV to keep being grease monkeys. I suppose Crypteks are characters~ so I could just try to keep them wrapped with something that can keep up with the TV's 8 move..

... Huh, would TV with Destroyer wingmen be good? Ima need to look into this...



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 21:58:28


Post by: Red Corsair


Cryptek will keep up, also the spyder can advance and repair. They will probably ignore the spyder first, then kill it, but either way thats less going into the TV lol. Plus I have been trying to look for reasons tyo take the spyders anyway since they are good for denying powers. Gloom prism is a really good deal IMO.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 22:01:22


Post by: Drakmord


With the beta character targeting rules you can hide a unit of scarabs just out of LOS and your Cloaktek is untargetable by shooting. As long as the scarabs are closer to the shooter, they can't target your Cloaktek, and scarabs are already pretty low to the ground. Reminiscent of the old 3E Spyder strategy actually!


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 22:27:01


Post by: mhalko1


People keep saying beta codex.
The leaked YouTube video IS the codex if I'm not mistaken. I think people may be getting there hopes up for anymore changes.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 22:30:46


Post by: Punisher


mhalko1 wrote:
People keep saying beta codex.
The leaked YouTube video IS the codex if I'm not mistaken. I think people may be getting there hopes up for anymore changes.


The uploader of the video said it's a beta codex. So pretty sure it's a beta, it's probably close to the final product but it isn't complete for instance there is no voidscythe which is referenced in the voidreaper's artefact page.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 22:37:11


Post by: Drakmord


The Voidscythe is on the Overlord's datasheet, and its cost is given in the Melee Weapons datasheet.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 22:46:59


Post by: Doctoralex


Heey y'all, I'd like to hear what you guys think of this list for an upcoming Grow League at my FLGS. It's meant to be low-competitive:


Mephrit Dynasty

494 points:

Patrol detachment

HQ:
Illuminor Szeras (Warlord Trait, Immortal Pride)

Overlord /w Warscythe, Veil of Darkness

Troops:
10x Warriors

8x Immortals /w Tesla Carbine

745 points:

Adding a DDA, filling the unit of Immortals to 10 models and adding 2 Warrior models to the unit.

961

Patrol detachment now becomes a Battalion.

Adding a new unit of Warriors, 15 models
Adding 3 more Warrior models to the other unit, for a total of 15.


1246

Adding a Triach Stalker /w Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon
Adding a unit of 6x Deathmarks

1500

Adding the Nightbringer (powers: Anti-matter meteor and Sky of the Falling Stars)
Adding two Deathmark models to the unit, now at 8 models.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 23:32:56


Post by: ArtyomTrityak


So actually i'm picking between 3x20 warriors or 3x10 immortals. Those 3x20 warriors blobs looks unkillable.

Deceiver + veil teleports and opponent is facing 3x20 warriors immune to morale.

Isn't it great? 60 bodies on the field.

So opponent faces 60 warriors 9' away -2 AP + 6 Destroyers + Deceiver Turn 1.

In addition Repair barge advances and getting ready to repair all of them.

And 3x3 or 1x9 Tomb Blades getting objectives / killing other stuff.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 23:36:23


Post by: vipoid


Requizen wrote:

Veil of Darkness has an edge by being the only utility piece. Everything else is some sort of weapon or armor, but Veil is useful even if you are relying on your Characters to support rather than fight. I suppose Orb of Eternity is also a support option, but Res Orbs in general aren't great.


Yeah, at 35pts I don't think I'll be using many Res. Orbs, unless I'm really struggling to fill out those points.

Requizen wrote:

As I don't think our HQs are particularly amazing beatsticks, if not the Veil I would go for either a ranged weapon or an armor type, leaning towards the former. Voltaic Staff is just a Gauss Cannon that your DLord or CCB can fire without -1 to hit, so that's good. Solar Staff is likely better, with more shots and a -1 Hit debuff. Abyssal is, imo, too situational and RNG reliant, though not terrible. Gauntlet of the Conflagrator is pretty bad unless your meta is nothing but hordes. .


Agreed on the Gauntlet, though even against hordes I doubt I'd bother. I thought the Abyssal Staff looked pretty decent. On average, it'll go off against most units in the game, and Mortal Wounds are pretty useful.

Requizen wrote:

As far as the armor types go, I would rank them 4++ >= Sempiternal >= Timesplinter > 2+ > Nanoscarab. In my book, preventative is better than reactive, so while the healing from Nanoscarab is cool, if you die it doesn't do anything half the time. Invulns, boosted stats, and 5+++ are great. 2+ is nearly as good, but I think it does less overall unless you're facing lots of AP0 (which isn't the meta). Timesplinter or Nanoscarab might be the better choice if you're facing lots of MWs.


The only thing I'd disagree with is that I'd place Sempiternal Weave last on the list. Given that toughness is less effective in this edition and with so many multiple-wound weapons, I don't think +1T and +1W is particularly useful. I'd much rather have the Nanoscarabs.

Requizen wrote:

The two Warscythes are fairly similar. Blood Scythe is better when facing more bodies, Voidreaper is better when facing tougher things. I personally don't think I'd pick a melee artifact most of the time. Edit: I might consider Blood Scythe if going full Novokh, to be fair. If your entire strategy is melee, it's quite good, though I don't think that's a viable build.


Yeah, I'm inclined to agree.


 Red Corsair wrote:
@Vpoid I didn't mean extreme prejudice the way your taking it mate. It's a colloquial term. It means your being hyper efficient and vigilant in your task.


Huh, I've never see it used/defined as anything but a decisively negative term. Fair enough.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Which then came off bizarre to me when you said you would take a destroyer lord just because.


Yeah, I put it in brackets because it would be a personal choice, rather than a competitive one, if you see what I mean.


 Red Corsair wrote:
Never assumed your mindset, I questioned your own words. Your responsible for whatever mindset your in, not me. just like I am for myself. No need to make things personal when they aren't.


I was referring to the 'prejudice' thing. I'd taken it as a personal attack because, as I said above, I wasn't familiar with the colloquial use. So I apologise for that.

 Red Corsair wrote:

BTW this is the second time now you have argued in circles with me about a unit, only to basically concede.


I'm not sure how exactly I conceded. Unless I'm mistaken, my position didn't change throughout our discussion.

Unless I just didn't express myself well initially?



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 23:41:43


Post by: Doctoralex


 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
So actually i'm picking between 3x20 warriors or 3x10 immortals. Those 3x20 warriors blobs looks unkillable.

Deceiver + veil teleports and opponent is facing 3x20 warriors immune to morale.

Isn't it great? 60 bodies on the field.

So opponent faces 60 warriors 9' away -2 AP + 6 Destroyers + Deceiver Turn 1.

In addition Repair barge advances and getting ready to repair all of them.

And 3x3 or 1x9 Tomb Blades getting objectives / killing other stuff.


i like your way of thinking! Add Illuminor Szeras and watch those Warrior blobs become even stronger.

The big, BIG problem with this is that you are relying só much on getting a 3 with the Deceiver's D3 Grand Illusion. Anything less and the whole plan shatters.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 23:47:03


Post by: ArtyomTrityak


Doctoralex wrote:
 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
So actually i'm picking between 3x20 warriors or 3x10 immortals. Those 3x20 warriors blobs looks unkillable.

Deceiver + veil teleports and opponent is facing 3x20 warriors immune to morale.

Isn't it great? 60 bodies on the field.

So opponent faces 60 warriors 9' away -2 AP + 6 Destroyers + Deceiver Turn 1.

In addition Repair barge advances and getting ready to repair all of them.

And 3x3 or 1x9 Tomb Blades getting objectives / killing other stuff.


i like your way of thinking! Add Illuminor Szeras and watch those Warrior blobs become even stronger.

The big, BIG problem with this is that you are relying só much on getting a 3 with the Deceiver's D3 Grand Illusion. Anything less and the whole plan shatters.


Actually i need only 2:

1. Deveiver + 2 blob of warriors
2. O/Lord/Cryptek with Veil of darkness + 1 blob of warriors. Cryptek gives +1 reanimation. Lord rerol 1s to wound, Overlord MWBDx2 (+1CP)

Unfortunately Illuminor Szeras is named character so can not use Veil of darkness.

3 is better because we can teleport character with them to make them morale immune.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 23:47:06


Post by: ThePie


My self im thinking 2x20 warriors and 10 immortals, since the immortals are a better target for MWBD. Not sure if i should run a catacomb command barge with void reaper, or an overlord with veil of darkness


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 23:48:55


Post by: ArtyomTrityak


 ThePie wrote:
My self im thinking 2x20 warriors and 10 immortals, since the immortals are a better target for MWBD. Not sure if i should run a catacomb command barge with void reaper, or an overlord with veil of darkness


You can use both for 1CP. It make sense to run 2x20 warriors for grand illusion and 1x10 Immortals for Veil.

CCB as a Character sniper looks awesome.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 00:02:33


Post by: Nagerash


Damn this thread is going fast... I blink 2 times and 5 pages are added...

I have never really liked the Deceiver much. I've always found The Nightbringer much more usefull (and awesome looking).

Getting some Alfa strike units up the field in rapid fire can be a very tempting thing, but I am never a fan of splitting my forces up (or I'd have to build an entire DS/redeploy army) I think the killyness of our former black stargod will get you more kills in the long run I think. (especially since there are other ways to get 1 or 2 units up the field if they really need to be there).
With the new rules though, I am thinking is a Nightbringer/Novokh Wraith combo overkill? That is a Lot of points in one (hard to kill) basket though. Going for the normal Scarab bodypups is probably more efficient.
You could even pair them up with some Praetorians and Tomb blades/Cloaktek for some nice fast (probably too expensive) support for your troops holding the center.

I'll have to juggle some options when the points are finallised.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 00:04:10


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


So do we have a finalization of all our gimmick HQ builds?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 00:13:06


Post by: ThePie


Honestly i think the normal Transcendent C'tan is better than the nightbringer, heck, you can put the veil of darkness on the Transcendent to get into optimal range and position to cast 2 powers straight away while you can bring a warrior blob to screen him


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 00:14:54


Post by: Doctoralex


 ThePie wrote:
you can put the veil of darkness on the Transcendent


That's a double nope on that one. Veil only works on infantry (C'tan is a monster) and requires the unit to have a Dynasty keyword, which the C'tan also lacks.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 00:20:06


Post by: ThePie


Doctoralex wrote:
 ThePie wrote:
you can put the veil of darkness on the Transcendent


That's a double nope on that one. Veil only works on infantry (C'tan is a monster) and requires the unit to have a Dynasty keyword, which the C'tan also lacks.


Ah, i missed the text that said C'tan shards can not have artifacts, shame.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 00:29:22


Post by: Doctoralex


 ThePie wrote:
Doctoralex wrote:
 ThePie wrote:
you can put the veil of darkness on the Transcendent


That's a double nope on that one. Veil only works on infantry (C'tan is a monster) and requires the unit to have a Dynasty keyword, which the C'tan also lacks.


Ah, i missed the text that said C'tan shards can not have artifacts, shame.


Hah, yea. Can you imagine the Transcendant C'tan with the Nightmare Shroud? 2++ save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Speaking of the Transcendant C'tan; what do you guys think? Pick one 'upgrade' from Fractured Personality, or take two random ones?

They are all solid, though 4 (12" advance) or 6 (no enemy cover saves for 12" from the C'tan) are kinda meh.

And then there's also the risk that you roll a double, and ending up with only one random upgrade!
You also can't command point re-roll this, since you roll for these upgrades before the first turn is taken.

If I would go for picking an upgrade, I'd say the 3++ or casting two powers are a no-brainer. Though re-roll to wound might come in handy as well if he needs to go and box a Primarch.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 00:42:35


Post by: ThePie


Doctoralex wrote:
 ThePie wrote:
Doctoralex wrote:
 ThePie wrote:
you can put the veil of darkness on the Transcendent


That's a double nope on that one. Veil only works on infantry (C'tan is a monster) and requires the unit to have a Dynasty keyword, which the C'tan also lacks.


Ah, i missed the text that said C'tan shards can not have artifacts, shame.


Hah, yea. Can you imagine the Transcendant C'tan with the Nightmare Shroud? 2++ save.



One can dream haha. But yeah, then i agree that the Nightbringer is probably the superior option.

Myself im still debating if i should run a catacomb command barge or get an cheaper normal overlord so i can also run a spyder (i think the model is really sexy), being able to repair your vehicles a bit should probably make the spyder pay for himself quickly.







Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 00:46:09


Post by: ArtyomTrityak


I do not like relying on going 1st with Deceiver either. If you go second your 2x20 warriors blobs will be annihilated :/


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 01:06:13


Post by: Red Corsair


2 Powers hands down for me, he is a less then 10 wound character so the improved invuln while nice is less useful IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So the CCB can clearly use the Veil right? Might be funny with the sniper warlord trait and catch some folks off guard.


NM it's infantry, I've been shoveling too much snow today.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 vipoid wrote:
Spoiler:
Requizen wrote:

Veil of Darkness has an edge by being the only utility piece. Everything else is some sort of weapon or armor, but Veil is useful even if you are relying on your Characters to support rather than fight. I suppose Orb of Eternity is also a support option, but Res Orbs in general aren't great.


Yeah, at 35pts I don't think I'll be using many Res. Orbs, unless I'm really struggling to fill out those points.

Requizen wrote:

As I don't think our HQs are particularly amazing beatsticks, if not the Veil I would go for either a ranged weapon or an armor type, leaning towards the former. Voltaic Staff is just a Gauss Cannon that your DLord or CCB can fire without -1 to hit, so that's good. Solar Staff is likely better, with more shots and a -1 Hit debuff. Abyssal is, imo, too situational and RNG reliant, though not terrible. Gauntlet of the Conflagrator is pretty bad unless your meta is nothing but hordes. .


Agreed on the Gauntlet, though even against hordes I doubt I'd bother. I thought the Abyssal Staff looked pretty decent. On average, it'll go off against most units in the game, and Mortal Wounds are pretty useful.

Requizen wrote:

As far as the armor types go, I would rank them 4++ >= Sempiternal >= Timesplinter > 2+ > Nanoscarab. In my book, preventative is better than reactive, so while the healing from Nanoscarab is cool, if you die it doesn't do anything half the time. Invulns, boosted stats, and 5+++ are great. 2+ is nearly as good, but I think it does less overall unless you're facing lots of AP0 (which isn't the meta). Timesplinter or Nanoscarab might be the better choice if you're facing lots of MWs.


The only thing I'd disagree with is that I'd place Sempiternal Weave last on the list. Given that toughness is less effective in this edition and with so many multiple-wound weapons, I don't think +1T and +1W is particularly useful. I'd much rather have the Nanoscarabs.

Requizen wrote:

The two Warscythes are fairly similar. Blood Scythe is better when facing more bodies, Voidreaper is better when facing tougher things. I personally don't think I'd pick a melee artifact most of the time. Edit: I might consider Blood Scythe if going full Novokh, to be fair. If your entire strategy is melee, it's quite good, though I don't think that's a viable build.


Yeah, I'm inclined to agree.


 Red Corsair wrote:
@Vpoid I didn't mean extreme prejudice the way your taking it mate. It's a colloquial term. It means your being hyper efficient and vigilant in your task.


Huh, I've never see it used/defined as anything but a decisively negative term. Fair enough.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Which then came off bizarre to me when you said you would take a destroyer lord just because.


Yeah, I put it in brackets because it would be a personal choice, rather than a competitive one, if you see what I mean.


 Red Corsair wrote:
Never assumed your mindset, I questioned your own words. Your responsible for whatever mindset your in, not me. just like I am for myself. No need to make things personal when they aren't.


I was referring to the 'prejudice' thing. I'd taken it as a personal attack because, as I said above, I wasn't familiar with the colloquial use. So I apologise for that.

 Red Corsair wrote:

BTW this is the second time now you have argued in circles with me about a unit, only to basically concede.


I'm not sure how exactly I conceded. Unless I'm mistaken, my position didn't change throughout our discussion.

Unless I just didn't express myself well initially?




No worries. I think we both are in agreement but were talking right past eachother. Concede is the wrong term. I think initially you just didn't understand the point I was trying to make in regard to both Immotek and FO earlier. I wasn't suggesting they were auto takes or anything, just that they were good if you had a plan for them. I think I just wasn't very clear myself from the get go and assumed we were on the same footing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So crazy idea, but what if we spammed scarabs and C'tan lol. You can take two outriders and a supreme command and get 11 units of 3 scarabs, nightbringer, deceiver and 5 more transcendant c'tans.

6 CP's

Might be funny and more effective then it looks. Thats a lot of characters and because scarabs are small enough to hide, if you use the deceiver the place them in smart locations you could render the C'tan untargetable from the enemy perspective early on. Thats alot of C'tan to take on as well. You figure between the powers, exploding C'tan and Scarabs you can inflict a horendous amount of mortal wounds.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 01:26:04


Post by: luke1705


Gonna respectfully disagree with you on the rolling for the C’tans Red. A 3++ is just way too good. Give them the 6” advance, wraiths to screen for them and some backfield objective holders to prevent deep striking from behind.

I’m thinking triple c’tan triple wraithwing with some canoptek cryptek support to let the wraiths get in some good RP rolls, backfield warriors or immortals to move up slowly with some scarabs to hold any backfield objectives permenantly. Advance 6” and hope for a t1 charge, advance the third unit 6” turn 2 and by turn 2 for sure you have 18 wraiths minus dead wraiths in combat with some good stuff, with the ability to fall back and charge other stuff the next turn. I actually like it a lot. Probably not super competitive but get hot on some wraith invulns and who knows what can happen?

Also can the deceiver reposition wraiths? Because if so....

Best of all, 7 CP feels like plenty for a wraithwing army (1 batallion, 1 outrider)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 01:30:44


Post by: Grimgold


 SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:
So is everyone still really against Warriors? I've been building up a 1500pts list for an upcoming local tournament and it includes a couple Warrior units.

Also, do we know how the Voidreaper functions? Is it a free replacement for the Warscythe? Didn't see it mentioned in the points list.


I wouldn't say we are against warriors, there is certainly a place for them, but generally they are overshadowed by immortals. They are one of the few units in the necron army vulnerable to morale, some of the ten mans can lose a unit here or there, but a 20 man blob can lose just over half their models and get wiped out.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 01:34:17


Post by: Slashy McTalons


I put up a video with my initial thoughts about the codex:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8Wzzqt_Mt8&t=21s

I haven't looked through this thread so probably missed some synergies etc. Also the video is not focused on tactics, but more on running through the changes and giving my opinion - but I guess this thread is the only relevant place to post, in the absence of a Necron sub-forum.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 02:50:43


Post by: luke1705


So here’s my list idea. Don’t think it’s super competitive but man I love canopteks. Had an almost all canoptek army until giving the last cryptek a cloak put me 3 points over 2k :(

If I wanted to make it more competitive I would probably drop the stalkers and make everything nephrek with a transcendent c’tan just to make you go through all wraiths

Spoiler:


Novokh Vanguard

Cryptek w/staff of light

Tomb Stalker
Tomb Stalker
Deceiver

Nephrekh Outrider

Cryptek w/canoptek cloak, staff of light

Nightbringer

6 wraiths
6 wraiths
6 wraiths
3 scarabs
3 scarabs



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 03:16:19


Post by: skoffs


If you're going to post lists here, can you please stick them under spoilers?
[This thread has only been up a short time and is already pretty long. Like someone already said, you come back a few hours later and it's added two extra pages. Multiple people posting lists is just going to make each page unnecessarily longer to scroll through for people who are here for the tactics/new codex info.]

Anyway, back to tactics discussion.

I really want to love Deathmarks again, but I'm struggling to see the best code and strategems for them. Any suggestions?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 03:23:48


Post by: Ridge


Deathmarks only really use mephrit well when intercepting or when they leave a nice juicy character within 3" of their front line, everything else doesn't really ever come into play

since ctan powers are now amazing for sniping characters, the best way to use deathmarks is as a way to block further units from deepstrike charging your gun lines by killing some and denying the area the opponent was planning on using for some more drops.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 03:30:19


Post by: Azuza001


Doctoralex wrote:
 ThePie wrote:
Doctoralex wrote:
 ThePie wrote:
you can put the veil of darkness on the Transcendent


That's a double nope on that one. Veil only works on infantry (C'tan is a monster) and requires the unit to have a Dynasty keyword, which the C'tan also lacks.


Ah, i missed the text that said C'tan shards can not have artifacts, shame.


Hah, yea. Can you imagine the Transcendant C'tan with the Nightmare Shroud? 2++ save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Speaking of the Transcendant C'tan; what do you guys think? Pick one 'upgrade' from Fractured Personality, or take two random ones?

They are all solid, though 4 (12" advance) or 6 (no enemy cover saves for 12" from the C'tan) are kinda meh.

And then there's also the risk that you roll a double, and ending up with only one random upgrade!
You also can't command point re-roll this, since you roll for these upgrades before the first turn is taken.

If I would go for picking an upgrade, I'd say the 3++ or casting two powers are a no-brainer. Though re-roll to wound might come in handy as well if he needs to go and box a Primarch.


I would and will always roll for 2 powers. There is a stratagem for 1 CP that let's you change one out if you don't like it. The question is if you roll doubles would that just mean you have the same one twice? If so that's not a big deal, just keep one and change the other. Or does it mean you simply just get one power? I am inclined to think you get the same ability twice which means you can change one to something different and keep the other one.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 03:39:24


Post by: Nightlord1987


Well, that -1 to Quantum Shielding rolls is pretty damn good. The tried and true way to beat it was Low Damage, and now its unkillable that way. Yikes!


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 03:46:55


Post by: Ridge


Unkillable is a fair bit of an overstatement, sure you are definately more durable with it, and can deny 1 wound weapons.

But against low damage it's still very killable as the bonus for low damage is:

1D: 17% less
2D: 20% less
3D: 25% less

this is still pretty good but not an ultimate trump card against dark angels and other counter QS armies


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 03:47:17


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Ridge wrote:
Deathmarks only really use mephrit well when intercepting or when they leave a nice juicy character within 3" of their front line, everything else doesn't really ever come into play

since ctan powers are now amazing for sniping characters, the best way to use deathmarks is as a way to block further units from deepstrike charging your gun lines by killing some and denying the area the opponent was planning on using for some more drops.

It makes for a pretty cheap Vanguard detachment huh? 3 squads of 5 Deathmarks and an HQ to help counter Plasma Scions and Custodes shenanigans.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 03:49:49


Post by: Ridge


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

It makes for a pretty cheap Vanguard detachment huh?


yeah but only really if you also need/can spare the points for another HQ

and is 300 + HQ really a cheap vanguard? unless you are needing to play tetris with your fast attack and elite slots then just taking squads of 3 scarabs to use as back field objective campers will be far cheaper unless you really want the deepstrike deny shenanigans you get with DMs


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 05:24:20


Post by: Red Corsair


 luke1705 wrote:
Gonna respectfully disagree with you on the rolling for the C’tans Red. A 3++ is just way too good. Give them the 6” advance, wraiths to screen for them and some backfield objective holders to prevent deep striking from behind.

I’m thinking triple c’tan triple wraithwing with some canoptek cryptek support to let the wraiths get in some good RP rolls, backfield warriors or immortals to move up slowly with some scarabs to hold any backfield objectives permenantly. Advance 6” and hope for a t1 charge, advance the third unit 6” turn 2 and by turn 2 for sure you have 18 wraiths minus dead wraiths in combat with some good stuff, with the ability to fall back and charge other stuff the next turn. I actually like it a lot. Probably not super competitive but get hot on some wraith invulns and who knows what can happen?

Also can the deceiver reposition wraiths? Because if so....

Best of all, 7 CP feels like plenty for a wraithwing army (1 batallion, 1 outrider)


Deceiver can reposition anything, but it stipulates you cannot assault turn 1 so it;s a terrible choice to do it to wraiths.

As for the invuln, agree to disagree. I want my C'tan projecting as many MW's as possible. +1 invuln sounds cool but with smites and null zone etc... it's just too easily countered. There are no counters to the powers of the C'tan really, aside from clever counter deployment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ridge wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

It makes for a pretty cheap Vanguard detachment huh?


yeah but only really if you also need/can spare the points for another HQ

and is 300 + HQ really a cheap vanguard? unless you are needing to play tetris with your fast attack and elite slots then just taking squads of 3 scarabs to use as back field objective campers will be far cheaper unless you really want the deepstrike deny shenanigans you get with DMs


Gives me an excuse to run the CCB sniper lord though so I like the idea lol.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 05:40:24


Post by: Punisher


For the ctan's power Times Arrow does the die roll have to exceed it's maximum Wounds or just it's current wounds?

On a slightly related note what's the consensus on the 2 powers we should be picking for ctans?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 06:16:53


Post by: THUNDERHAMMER


Looking at Mephirit Thinking lots of immortals Is gauss still the clear winner up close?

Considering the deceiver to get some boys up the board feels weird having a slightly mobile army with destroyers tomb blades and wraiths


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 06:24:46


Post by: Neophyte2012


 THUNDERHAMMER wrote:
Looking at Mephirit Thinking lots of immortals Is gauss still the clear winner up close?

Considering the deceiver to get some boys up the board feels weird having a slightly mobile army with destroyers tomb blades and wraiths


Immortals are defintely quite good of taken in 10men numbers. But other units have their own merits anyway, like Wraiths can go tie up some troublesome units hiding behind screens and in cover. While the Destroyers are winners against multi wound guys with low / mid toughness. Tomb blades, like a "super immortal", moves fast to reposition, so can catch up enemy fast units as the game progresses while Immortals with Deceiver are only good at the alpha strike.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 06:32:13


Post by: Grimgold


 Punisher wrote:
For the ctan's power Times Arrow does the die roll have to exceed it's maximum Wounds or just it's current wounds?

On a slightly related note what's the consensus on the 2 powers we should be picking for ctans?


Sky of falling stars for sure, and for the other probably time's arrow or anti-matter meteor, since they can hit up to 6 mortal wounds in a single shot, and the other allows you to delete units with no recourse. YMMV


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 10:42:39


Post by: Drewtavian


 Punisher wrote:
For the ctan's power Times Arrow does the die roll have to exceed it's maximum Wounds or just it's current wounds?



From the index the times arrow was against max wounds not current wounds so in codex it will prob follow suit.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 10:49:21


Post by: Dionysodorus


Azuza001 wrote:

I would and will always roll for 2 powers. There is a stratagem for 1 CP that let's you change one out if you don't like it. The question is if you roll doubles would that just mean you have the same one twice? If so that's not a big deal, just keep one and change the other. Or does it mean you simply just get one power? I am inclined to think you get the same ability twice which means you can change one to something different and keep the other one.


I think there's some confusion here -- though maybe it's mine! There are two different things being talked about, I think. There are the pseudo-psychic powers the C'tan get, and then there are 6 abilities that the Transcendant C'tan only gets, and it's these that you either pick 1 or roll 2 from. The stratagem to replace one power with another is for the psychic powers, not for the T'C'tan's abilities. I think the only reason to roll on the psychic table is if you're bringing multiple C'tan and run afoul of the can't re-pick rule. Being able to use two of the psychic powers per turn seems like easily the best of the T'C'tan's special abilities, and it's probably always worth picking over rolling so you don't risk not getting it.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 10:49:39


Post by: Doctoralex


Time's arrow has to beat the highest wound characteristic in a unit, so no point in wounding a unit first.
Also, it's the highest of the UNIT; Eldar have Exarch's in their units, who have 2 wounds each. This means you have to roll a 3+ for a model to be slain (and yes, the Eldar player can just take a non-exarch unit away)



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 10:52:08


Post by: KurtAngle2


You can't go under 1 with that QS Stratagem, so it's worthless for single damage weapons


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 10:53:36


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Yeah, pretty sure you still can't go under 1.
Still useful though for those Damage 3 weapons.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 10:54:33


Post by: Doctoralex


KurtAngle2 wrote:
You can't go under 1 with that QS Stratagem, so it's worthless for single damage weapons


Why not? sure, normally you don't roll for 1 dmg on QS, but now you can roll a one and subract 1, reaching 0 and thus no damage.

I know there is the rule that a natural 1 is always a failure, but does that count in this scenario as well? If I have to roll for my QS on 6 dmg, a roll of a 1 is a success.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 11:01:02


Post by: KurtAngle2


Doctoralex wrote:
KurtAngle2 wrote:
You can't go under 1 with that QS Stratagem, so it's worthless for single damage weapons


Why not? sure, normally you don't roll for 1 dmg on QS, but now you can roll a one and subract 1, reaching 0 and thus no damage.

I know there is the rule that a natural 1 is always a failure, but does that count in this scenario as well? If I have to roll for my QS on 6 dmg, a roll of a 1 is a success.

The faq states that a roll of under 1 is never possible, whilst 6+ rolls are


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 11:14:37


Post by: Shaelinith


Hi, long long time lurker here (since 4th edition, with break in 6th-7th).

I have a question regarding Illuminor Szeras and his Warlord Trait Immortal Pride which says :
"Friendly <Dynasty> units automatically pass Morale tests ..."

But Szeras don't have a Dynasty trait so there is two way you could read this, it works with everybody or nobody.

I know the leak is a beta version, so it is possible it will be adressed in the release version, but still, how do you interpret it ?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 11:16:25


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Shaelinith wrote:
Hi, long long time lurker here (since 4th edition, with break in 6th-7th).

I have a question regarding Illuminor Szeras and his Warlord Trait Immortal Pride which says :
"Friendly <Dynasty> units automatically pass Morale tests ..."

But Szeras don't have a Dynasty trait so there is two way you could read this, it works with everybody or nobody.

I know the leak is a beta version, so it is possible it will be adresse in the release version, but still, how do you interpret it ?


I don't understand what you mean? Necron units that are not Szeras have <dynasty>, so they will be affected by the trait.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 11:28:31


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


1st Game with the new dex last night.


I decided to go with a fairly basic Sautekh list rather than try anything fancy:

Spoiler:

Overlord
Lord
Cryptek

20x Warriors
10x Tesla Imm
10x Tesla Imm

5x Wraith
9x Scarabs
3x Tesla TBs
3x Tesla TBs

3x H.Destroyers
DDA
DDA

So a basic Phalanx formation; Troops + HQs in the middle, big guns at the back, fast units covering the flanks.


I was up against Guilliman with a rolling ball of anti infantry dakka (agressors, repulsor + primaris dreadnaughts) and 5 units of scouts.

A few points:

-The scouts claimed the whole board at deployment while I had to stick to my DZ. This will always be a problem for crons

-3x Heavy Destroyers with the strat = 3D6 wounds on what they shoot most of the time. Nice. 6x regular destroyers would make better use of the strat though.

-DDAs are also pretty fearsome anti-tank.

- Warriors are still pretty squishy and you really don't want to burn 2CP to ignore morale when ~15 go down.

- The Sautekh code never came up. I was always looking for the right time to use their stratagem but didn't find it. The WL trait is obviously nice.

- MSU seems good for Tomb Blades. They don't benefit from any stratagems or buffs that make you want big units and they make great objective grabbers. 3 was enough to take objectives off scouts with shoot, charge, fall back, shoot again.

-The scouts were all on upper floors of ruins so wraith and scarabs couldn't get them (right?). The Wraith ended up charging into a Dreadnaught in a null zone, fluffing their attacks, and dying horribly.

- Guilliman running around your back line is unpleasant.


I squeaked a win on objectives after we both lost most of our armies.




Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 11:29:54


Post by: Shaelinith


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


I don't understand what you mean? Necron units that are not Szeras have <dynasty>, so they will be affected by the trait.


Yeah but isn't the <Dynasty> keyword in all abilities (and Warlord Trait) of a model/unit is dependant of the model itself ?

Szeras had no <Dynasty> keyword at all so you replace <Dynasty> with ... nothing ?

Maybe i'm confused about this though


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 11:37:20


Post by: Fan67


Shaelinith wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


I don't understand what you mean? Necron units that are not Szeras have <dynasty>, so they will be affected by the trait.


Yeah but isn't the <Dynasty> keyword in all abilities (and Warlord Trait) of a model/unit is dependant of the model itself ?

Szeras had no <Dynasty> keyword at all so you replace <Dynasty> with ... nothing ?

Maybe i'm confused about this though


There is the rule in the codex that units without dynasty (c'tans, szeras, anrakyr, triarchs) do not break Dynasty Code for the detachment they are in, but never themselves benefit from the said Code.
Like Astra Militarum and Ministorum Priests, for example.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I personally consider that Necrons are going to get the strongest Brigade choice so far.
And you will want to take it cause they will have one of the highest CP consumption, and that might even justify choosing Sautekh Dynasty for CP loss mitigation, instead of Mephrite bonus to AP.
I calculated the spending of 9-10 in first turn alone.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 11:48:55


Post by: Klowny


Ive been jumping in and out of this chat.

My current thinking is that they are pushing necrons away from silver tide into a much more elite, very offensive army.

RP is unchanged, which means its just as bad as index, but there are certain areas where it is now insanely better. This is all due to the cape-tek.

Since destroyers and tomb blades new get good RP, being T5, 2W with 3+/5++/4+++* means they are alot more durable. I know how tough 9 blades was in index vs codex armies, they are an auto include in any list i build now, their utility to damage output to survivability is second to none, besides vehicles.

C'tan are phenomenal now, especially the TV. I mathed two fire raptors standing next to Daddy G and they dont even kill the thing. For reference, on average rolls a single raptor one shots mortarion or magnus...... Now it gets D3 a turn back, and vomits mortal wounds.

You can game the ctan powers to get exactly what you want with a vault and a T/Ctan with the stratagem.

Vehicles are amazing now with sautekh.

In fact, I feel its going to come down to Codex: Sautekh, as it has incredible similarities to ultramarines. Warlord trait, stratagem and the general utility it provides far outweights every other dynasty on a whole. Granted some have niche advantages (Cult d/bomb for example) but on the whole its the dynasty to run.

Moving foward I plan to run the TV, a T/C'tan, Scarabs, 6 wraiths, 9 blades, 10-20 T'immortals and 2 cape-teks, TA and DDA and stalker at 2k. I know this will fit as I have ran it index (had 10 immortals and an O/lord, but with points decreases I should fit it all in, fingers crossed I can also get an O/lord for MWBD, or big daddy imotekh if im REALLY lucky).

Sautekh all the way bby1!!


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 11:58:02


Post by: Darsath


Tomb Blades (or Destroyers) accompanied by a Cryptek with the Cloak will be pretty good I think. I don't Sautek being useful as an army trait as most of the vehicles seem like traps to me. C'tan are pretty good. In particular the Transcendent C'tan being able to use 2 powers each turn could be pretty solid in most lists.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 12:12:56


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


I'm thinking that Nephrekh Dynasty is a nice fit if you want to cheap out on a battalion. 5 man Tesla Immortal squads that advance 11" and still shoot could be a tricksy little unit. Great objective grabbers and DS deniers that should be hard to kill if they hide well and teleport form cover to cover. A Lord or Overlord with a SoL for ~85pts is also not terrible zipping about 11" and still shooting. Throw in a couple of 3x Tesla Tomb Blade units and you have an interesting skirmish screen of fast moving, durable harassment units.

This seems like a decent way of combating a couple of problems with Necron list building: The Battalion tax and the lack of screening/board control.

So maybe something like:

Battalion:

Cryptekh + Chrono + Sol + veil
Lord + SoL

10x Tesla Imm
5x Tesla Imm
5x Tesla Imm

Outrider:

CCB

6x Destroyers (Deep Strike)
3x TBlades
3x TBlades


The Lord, 2x Immortals and 2x Tomb Blades teleport around screening and grabbing objectives.

The Veil Cryptek, 10x Immortals and 6x Destroyers drop in together as a hammer.

Still plenty of points left for some anti-tank and maybe a big unit of wraith (they really like the 6" advance).



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 12:16:12


Post by: changemod


I actually have four Destroyer Crypteks converted as part of the Destroyer Cult gimmick list I ran for a while last edition. I ran them as heavy destroyers after essentially cutting the legs off my no-longer usable harbingers of destruction conversions and sticking them to destroyer bodies.

But yeah, they might be a bit oversized but I could see fielding one as a Cloak Cryptek along with my destroyers. Maybe run him with that Mephrit relic staff of light to amp up his staff to match the model.

I'll definitely be running 2000 points worth of destroyer body models at some point, exact army composition to be determined by probably split into two detachments to get command points, probably Mephrit because there aren't many dynasty traits that actually help Destroyers much and Sautekh only does anything when advancing.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 12:17:12


Post by: dapperbandit


It'd be really nice if units with the Triarch codeword had their own in built ability. Having Stalkers and Praetorians that can't combo with your Dynasty Code, Dynasty abilities or Dynasty strategies is just awkward.

I know Praetorians have their own morale ability but something specific to the Triarch codeword itself that would work on Stalkers too would be nice.

Also

The question is, with the Transcendent C'Tan, do you pick Cosmic Tyrant for Fractured Personality or roll for two random abilities? The perfect roll for me would be Cosmic Tyrant and Transdimensional Displacement. Do an Assault move 20" up the board and then use two Powers of the C'Tan straight away.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 12:25:43


Post by: Odrankt


Doctoralex wrote:
Time's arrow has to beat the highest wound characteristic in a unit, so no point in wounding a unit first.
Also, it's the highest of the UNIT; Eldar have Exarch's in their units, who have 2 wounds each. This means you have to roll a 3+ for a model to be slain (and yes, the Eldar player can just take a non-exarch unit away)



Remember that Times Arrow can one-shot anything with 6 wounds or less. We can target Characters as well because C'TAN powers are done at the end of the movement phase and not the shooting phase.

I will be using TA to kill cheap warlords who add value to my enemies arny e.g. I have seen loads of IG players put the 5+ CP re-gain on warlords with 6 or less wounds and pts costs of 20-30pts. Guess who I am going to be targeting on my turn 1


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 12:31:19


Post by: Darsath


 Odrankt wrote:
Doctoralex wrote:
Time's arrow has to beat the highest wound characteristic in a unit, so no point in wounding a unit first.
Also, it's the highest of the UNIT; Eldar have Exarch's in their units, who have 2 wounds each. This means you have to roll a 3+ for a model to be slain (and yes, the Eldar player can just take a non-exarch unit away)



Remember that Times Arrow can one-shot anything with 6 wounds or less. We can target Characters as well because C'TAN powers are done at the end of the movement phase and not the shooting phase.

I will be using TA to kill cheap warlords who add value to my enemies arny e.g. I have seen loads of IG players put the 5+ CP re-gain on warlords with 6 or less wounds and pts costs of 20-30pts. Guess who I am going to be targeting on my turn 1


You need to roll under their max wounds, not equal to or less. 5 out of 6 uses Time Arrow will probably do nothing. It's a trap power. Stick to Sky of Falling Stars for sure.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 12:40:42


Post by: mhalko1


Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
1st Game with the new dex last night.


I decided to go with a fairly basic Sautekh list rather than try anything fancy:

Spoiler:

Overlord
Lord
Cryptek

20x Warriors
10x Tesla Imm
10x Tesla Imm

5x Wraith
9x Scarabs
3x Tesla TBs
3x Tesla TBs

3x H.Destroyers
DDA
DDA

So a basic Phalanx formation; Troops + HQs in the middle, big guns at the back, fast units covering the flanks.


I was up against Guilliman with a rolling ball of anti infantry dakka (agressors, repulsor + primaris dreadnaughts) and 5 units of scouts.

A few points:

-The scouts claimed the whole board at deployment while I had to stick to my DZ. This will always be a problem for crons

-3x Heavy Destroyers with the strat = 3D6 wounds on what they shoot most of the time. Nice. 6x regular destroyers would make better use of the strat though.

-DDAs are also pretty fearsome anti-tank.

- Warriors are still pretty squishy and you really don't want to burn 2CP to ignore morale when ~15 go down.

- The Sautekh code never came up. I was always looking for the right time to use their stratagem but didn't find it. The WL trait is obviously nice.

- MSU seems good for Tomb Blades. They don't benefit from any stratagems or buffs that make you want big units and they make great objective grabbers. 3 was enough to take objectives off scouts with shoot, charge, fall back, shoot again.

-The scouts were all on upper floors of ruins so wraith and scarabs couldn't get them (right?). The Wraith ended up charging into a Dreadnaught in a null zone, fluffing their attacks, and dying horribly.

- Guilliman running around your back line is unpleasant.


I squeaked a win on objectives after we both lost most of our armies.




Wraiths should have been able to get the scouts had you wanted to. They move over terrain as if its not there and scarabs have fly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Darsath wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
Doctoralex wrote:
Time's arrow has to beat the highest wound characteristic in a unit, so no point in wounding a unit first.
Also, it's the highest of the UNIT; Eldar have Exarch's in their units, who have 2 wounds each. This means you have to roll a 3+ for a model to be slain (and yes, the Eldar player can just take a non-exarch unit away)



Remember that Times Arrow can one-shot anything with 6 wounds or less. We can target Characters as well because C'TAN powers are done at the end of the movement phase and not the shooting phase.

I will be using TA to kill cheap warlords who add value to my enemies arny e.g. I have seen loads of IG players put the 5+ CP re-gain on warlords with 6 or less wounds and pts costs of 20-30pts. Guess who I am going to be targeting on my turn 1


You need to roll under their max wounds, not equal to or less. 5 out of 6 uses Time Arrow will probably do nothing. It's a trap power. Stick to Sky of Falling Stars for sure.


No you need to roll over the max wound characteristic of the unit. Therefore TV can snipe 6 wound characters on the roll of a 6 since it gets +1. Additionally, most buff characters clock in at 4 wounds, thus a Ctan needs a 5 or 6 to kill them.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 12:50:44


Post by: Darsath


Using a 500 point model, I hardly think it would be useful as an unreliable character sniper. Probably better using other powers since it gets enhanced versions of them all.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 12:56:28


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Time's arrow could be useful if you really want to murder infantry characters and you don't have room / don't want deathmarks.

Does the arrow work on monsters? If so, that would be better against the likes of tyrants and Grand Master Dreadknights.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 12:57:21


Post by: Doctoralex


Darsath wrote:
Using a 500 point model, I hardly think it would be useful as an unreliable character sniper. Probably better using other powers since it gets enhanced versions of them all.


I disagree. Not all powers improve that much from the Vault.

Thunderbolt for instance, just turns the 4+ into a 3+. It doesnt affect the AoE part of it.

Improved sky of the falling stars only helps if the targeted unit has 5 or less models. Anything above and it does exactly the same as the none-improved one.

And Anti-matter meteor requires you to put your luck on rolling that 5+. It can fail just as easily as the non-improved one.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 13:01:47


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Doctoralex wrote:
Darsath wrote:
Using a 500 point model, I hardly think it would be useful as an unreliable character sniper. Probably better using other powers since it gets enhanced versions of them all.


I disagree. Not all powers improve that much from the Vault.

Thunderbolt for instance, just turns the 4+ into a 3+. It doesnt affect the AoE part of it.

Improved sky of the falling stars only helps if the targeted unit has 5 or less models. Anything above and it does exactly the same as the none-improved one.

And Anti-matter meteor requires you to put your luck on rolling that 5+. It can fail just as easily as the non-improved one.


Statistically speaking the meteor has twice the chance of proccing the D6 MW when used by a vault (1/3 chance as opposed to 1/6 chance, or 33.33% to 16.67%. That's effectively double)
Thunderbolt doesn't get that much of a bonus (2/3 as opposed to 1/2, or 66.67% to 50%. That's an increase of just over a fifth.)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 13:03:55


Post by: Odrankt


TA power should be used to kill things with 2-4 wounds that have great saves, Invuls, toughness, attacks etc like Custodes, Grey Knights etc. I was only stating that TA can also one shot Characters with wounds characteristic of 6 or less (well, 5 or less as you need to roll above the wound count). Obviously other powers will be better for taking out Characters and other units with good stats. It's just good that TA can ignore a unit/models stats and completely kill it. TA is probably a bit to niche for what it is worth. Reliability over use-ability I suppose.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 13:15:16


Post by: Dionysodorus


I'm not really sold on the Vault, outside of maybe a spam list. It's really, really durable, sure, but its main output is just 3 enhanced C'tan powers. Mostly this enhancement isn't that great.

Compared to a regular C'tan, the Vault is:
13% better with Antimatter Meteor
No better at killing W1 models with Time's Arrow, and 33% better at killing W3 models
25% better at hitting 5-model units with Sky of Falling Stars, and no better at hitting 6+ units, though of course infinitely better at hitting single models (but this is inefficient)
33% better at Cosmic Fire, plus it's bigger so might be closer to more units (on the other hand a regular C'tan probably has an easier time running into the middle of a bunch of enemy units).
100% better at Seismic Assault, though you need a pretty big unit still to make this better than other options
33% better against the initial target of Transdimensional Thunderbolt, and no better against everything around it

2 T'C'tans put out more MWs unless you're staring down something like a Boyz horde, and they cost less. They're more fragile but they're characters, and they're also pretty decent in CC. Plus you can use a stratagem to duplicate a power across the T'C'tans to get multiple casts of Sky or whatever other power is best-suited for the game.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 13:28:44


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Technically the vault is 50% better with meteor, as its going from proccing D6 MW at 16.67% to 33.33%.

You can also use more than 1 power a turn with the vault, which does give it a fire power increase, and this is in edition to its 5 tesla spheres.

It is worth 500 points and a LoW slot? Eh...maybe? I mean, what do the other armies get for 500 points in a LoW slot?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 13:39:19


Post by: Dionysodorus


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Technically the vault is 50% better with meteor, as its going from proccing D6 MW at 16.67% to 33.33%.

You can also use more than 1 power a turn with the vault, which does give it a fire power increase, and this is in edition to its 5 tesla spheres.

With AM, a regular C'tan gets d3 MWs on a 2-5 and d6 on a 6, for an average of 2*2/3 + 3.5*1/6 = 1.92. A Vault gets d3 MWs on a 2-4 and d6 on a 5 or 6, for an average of 2*1/2 + 3.5*1/3 = 2.17. It's a pretty small improvement since all you're doing is replacing a d3 with a d6 1/6th of the time.

A Vault gets 3 powers per turn, but 2 Transcendant C'tans get 4, and together can even cast the same power twice, which is a big deal since often there will be one clearly best power for a given matchup.

The Tesla Spheres are a nice plus. I might be underestimating them. I guess it is more firepower than a full Immortal squad.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 13:41:12


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


I made a Nephrek list in the army list section that I'd like some feedback on if anyone would be so kind:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/752797.page#9877687

Here it is in spoilers:

Spoiler:
I think the Nephrekh Dynasty Code from the leaked Necron Codex is the coolest faction trait yet, personal teleporters for everyone! I also think it's quite good.

Here's the list:

Battalion:

Cryptek + Veil + SoL + Chronometron
Lord + SoL

10x Tesla Immortals
5x Tesla Immortals
5x Tesla Immortals

Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark

Outrider:

CCB + Gauss Cannon + Voidscythe

6x Destroyers
6x Wraith
6x Scarabs
3x Tomb Blades + Tesla + Shieldvanes
3x Tomb Blades + Tesla + Shieldvanes


So there's a few different sections to this list:

The Hammer
6x Destroyers Deep Strike in (Stratagem) and are joined by the Veil Cryptek and 10 x Tesla Immortals. The destroyers get the reroll everything stratagem and the Immortals get MWBD from the CCB. That's some serious firepower and they all get the Crypteks 5++ and +1 reanimation which makes them pretty tough, especially in cover.

Board control/ Screening
The Lord with SoL, 2x5 Tesla Immortals and 2x3 Tomb Blades. These 5 units are all small, Tough and fast (thanks to the Dynasty code). The infantry models here can all move 11" and still shoot and are expendable enough to be used to block assaults and deep strikes. The Tomb Blades are quick enough (20" advance) that they may be able to zip forward and provide a DS screen for the hammer. All of them are very handy for grabbing objectives or just harassing and kiting the enemy.

Fire Support
2 x Doomsday Arks. Emphasis on doom.

Canoptek Rush
6x Wraith + 6x Scarabs. The Nephrekh code combos very nicely with the advance and charge stratagem for canopteks. Wraith have a 25" average threat range (30" max).

The Floater
The Command Barge. Like a turd? Maybe, but a 3rd HQ is Required. He can dish out some damage and/or provide some support and is fast enough to join up with any of the other elements.


Thoughts? Comments? Criticism?



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 13:46:34


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Yeah ok, I see what you mean. That isn't really that much an increase of total MW.

2 Transcendent C'tans takes up 2 heavy slots though. Which is fine if you want to do that, but what if you want to fill the heavy slots with another unit?

The vault has more wounds too. 2 T C'tan have 16 wounds. The Vault has 28 wounds.

The spheres are a good secondary weapons system. You're looking at 20 S7 shots a turn, with a chance of making more shots. And with that volume of fire you will make more shots (at least 6 on average).
If it were a primary weapon then it would be kind of terrible, as most LoW have a juicy multi-damage weapon of some sort, but for the Vault it has powers of the C'tan as a primary weapon, so it can get away with it as MW are stupidly useful.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still wary of the vault's price as it only has a 4+ invul, but I don't think it can be completely written off and it has a place in an army.

Unlike the Obelisk, which is still mediocre and situational. Like, what's the point? No invul, only weapon are spheres and its special ability is situational and unreliable.
The vault at least has an invul and can deal mortal wounds freely. The Obelisk can't do that.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 13:48:18


Post by: Game_maker


I had an idea for a mixed dynasty list that might be fun to try out:
Spoiler:
Nephrekh Battalion:
HQ:
Catacomb command barge with Gauss Cannon and Voidreaper artifact. Warlord trait: Honorable Combatant
Illuminor Szeras

Troops:
10 x Tesla Immortals
10 x Tesla Immortals
10 x Gauss Immortals

Mephrit Outrider:
HQ:
Cryptek with Canoptek Cloak

Fast Attack:
9 x Gauss Tomb Blades (5 with shield vanes, 4 with shadowlooms)
9 x Gauss Tomb Blades (5 with shield vanes, 4 with shadowlooms)
5 x Scarabs

Heavy:
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark

I think that this list gives Necrons a fair bit of mobility and board control to work with. The tomb blades, cryptek, and barge can harass enemy lines, and take advantage of fly and the voidreaper to both avoid damage and carve up enemy characters in melee while still being able to shoot. In the midfield, having augmented Tesla Immortals who can move 11 inches with their advance lets them grab objectives and find cover, while getting wave of command from the barge. The Arks can probably deal with enemy deepstrikes into the backfield just fine between quantum shielding and AP-2 flayers at deepstrike range. Gauss Immortals also then be deepstruck into enemy lines for a command point when you need to secure objectives or harass key units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I made a Nephrek list in the army list section that I'd like some feedback on if anyone would be so kind:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/752797.page#9877687

Here it is in spoilers:

Spoiler:
I think the Nephrekh Dynasty Code from the leaked Necron Codex is the coolest faction trait yet, personal teleporters for everyone! I also think it's quite good.

Here's the list:

Battalion:

Cryptek + Veil + SoL + Chronometron
Lord + SoL

10x Tesla Immortals
5x Tesla Immortals
5x Tesla Immortals

Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark

Outrider:

CCB + Gauss Cannon + Voidscythe

6x Destroyers
6x Wraith
6x Scarabs
3x Tomb Blades + Tesla + Shieldvanes
3x Tomb Blades + Tesla + Shieldvanes


So there's a few different sections to this list:

The Hammer
6x Destroyers Deep Strike in (Stratagem) and are joined by the Veil Cryptek and 10 x Tesla Immortals. The destroyers get the reroll everything stratagem and the Immortals get MWBD from the CCB. That's some serious firepower and they all get the Crypteks 5++ and +1 reanimation which makes them pretty tough, especially in cover.

Board control/ Screening
The Lord with SoL, 2x5 Tesla Immortals and 2x3 Tomb Blades. These 5 units are all small, Tough and fast (thanks to the Dynasty code). The infantry models here can all move 11" and still shoot and are expendable enough to be used to block assaults and deep strikes. The Tomb Blades are quick enough (20" advance) that they may be able to zip forward and provide a DS screen for the hammer. All of them are very handy for grabbing objectives or just harassing and kiting the enemy.

Fire Support
2 x Doomsday Arks. Emphasis on doom.

Canoptek Rush
6x Wraith + 6x Scarabs. The Nephrekh code combos very nicely with the advance and charge stratagem for canopteks. Wraith have a 25" average threat range (30" max).

The Floater
The Command Barge. Like a turd? Maybe, but a 3rd HQ is Required. He can dish out some damage and/or provide some support and is fast enough to join up with any of the other elements.


Thoughts? Comments? Criticism?


Your list seems similar to the one I was designing, I think that in your case the command barge could be substituted for a cryptek with the cloak, which would allow him to reanimate tomb blades and canoptek units that will be on the front lines. Bringing back wraiths in particular would probably annoy any opponent facing them


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 14:02:48


Post by: ImPhaeronWeasel


Hey Tomb World!
Im a silent reader of this forum (started with the unit grading index forum) and I really liked the information and the discussions here. My number 1 source for Necron tactics.

As a advanced noob gamer (startet 7th edition) Ive some questions concerning our new codex and FW units.

So in Chapter Approved they increased the point costs of the Big Pylon. Now with the codex we got some nice point reductions for our units so how viable is the Pylon now?

Another thing is: Our Vehicles beeing T6 which makes them easier to wound for autocanons and all those quad heavy supa dupa boltah!! IG and SM have. The DDA has at least 72“ range so its not such a problem to hide it in the back corner but how about the stalker? The heavy Gauss is still only 2 shots and the Heat Gun is 24“ which means you have to get closer to the enemy and his/hers S6/7 10plusy shots.

My last question is about wounding T7+. I dont have Destroyers but i will definitely try them plus the new stratagem. But we dont have anything except our anti tank that is wounding T7 at least on 4s right? I know its probably about weight of heavy fire from the destroyers but at least wounding T7 on 4s would be nice.
I asked myself this while looking at the new Forgebane box. Those 2 mini knights are T7. Everything in the box wounds on 5 except you run Scytheguard. You dont even have enough fire power with only 10 (in rapid fire) shots from the Immortals.
It just hits me that such an advanced race as the necrons wound light armoured vehicles on 5 and our Vehicles are as tough as some characters. In 7th you had the Gauss rule but thats not a thing anymore.

Sorry for long post.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 14:04:41


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


Your list seems similar to the one I was designing, I think that in your case the command barge could be substituted for a cryptek with the cloak, which would allow him to reanimate tomb blades and canoptek units that will be on the front lines. Bringing back wraiths in particular would probably annoy any opponent facing them


That's a decent Idea actually. should free up some points too.

I like your list. I can't remember how the maths worked out for Gauss vs Tesla on Mephrit Dynasty but I think you should consider Tesla for your Tomb Blades. They are definitely better than Gauss vs most targets when outside of 12" and I think they do pretty well within that range. You need to run the numbers and maybe try one unit of each to begin with.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 14:06:18


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Destroyers will wound T7 on fires, not 4s. Their weapons are still below S7.
Heavy Destroyers, who have a S9 gun, will wound T7 on 3s.
Annihilation Barges have a S7 weapon, so that will wound T7 on 4s.

Yeah, the forge bane box seems to shaft necrons. I guess if you get the charge off with scytheguard you can probably kill an armiger, as you are looking at about 10 attacks, wound on 4+ (S5+2) and dealing 2 damage each.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 14:12:37


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


Necron vehicles and anti-tank seems really fluffy to me.

The super high strength and AP on our anti tank seems like it was designed to fight stuff with toughness 8-9 and 2+ saves, while quantum shielded vehicles were meant to shrug off super weapons dealing 6+ damage.

It's almost like they came from a time with much more advanced battlefield technology than exists in 40k...


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 14:15:43


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Necron vehicles and anti-tank seems really fluffy to me.

The super high strength and AP on our anti tank seems like it was designed to fight stuff with toughness 8-9 and 2+ saves, while quantum shielded vehicles were meant to shrug off super weapons dealing 6+ damage.

It's almost like they came from a time with much more advanced battlefield technology than exists in 40k...


Unfortunately, in turns of army design we're still weak against vehicles, as we can't spam anti-tank like everyone else.
Which is why gauss used to have an anti-vehicle rule.

Its better now, as destroyers and the DDA did get a bit of a buff, but its still not that strong compared to other armies.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 14:18:01


Post by: Odrankt


Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Your list seems similar to the one I was designing, I think that in your case the command barge could be substituted for a cryptek with the cloak, which would allow him to reanimate tomb blades and canoptek units that will be on the front lines. Bringing back wraiths in particular would probably annoy any opponent facing them


That's a decent Idea actually. should free up some points too.

I like your list. I can't remember how the maths worked out for Gauss vs Tesla on Mephrit Dynasty but I think you should consider Tesla for your Tomb Blades. They are definitely better than Gauss vs most targets when outside of 12" and I think they do pretty well within that range. You need to run the numbers and maybe try one unit of each to begin with.



I am not a fan of Tesla on Tomb Blades. They move 14" meaning they are the best unit to put Gauss on. They also can't be MWBD or CW by an Overlord/CCB so you'll be popping your Tesla on 6s. Is a few extra hits at -1 better then a solid -2/-3 AP on a bike that can get into RF range without the need for deepstriking or being moved via the Deceiver?

In every Dynasty, besides Mephrit, Tomb Blades should have Gauss (imo). I rather run Tesla Immortals who can pop on them on 5s via MWBD/CW(or 4s if using Sautekh and it's Stratagem).


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 14:19:57


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Wouldn't gauss work best with mephrit, as you can get a -3 save mod? Mephrit works best with rapid fire, imo, as you'd want to be in rapid fire range anyway to use it to its fullest potential, and the distance for that tends to be the same as the mephrit buff.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 14:22:10


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


 Odrankt wrote:



I am not a fan of Tesla on Tomb Blades. They move 14" meaning they are the best unit to put Gauss on. They also can't be MWBD or CW by an Overlord/CCB so you'll be popping your Tesla on 6s. Is a few extra hits at -1 better then a solid -2/-3 AP on a bike that can get into RF range without the need for deepstriking or being moved via the Deceiver?

In every Dynasty, besides Mephrit, Tomb Blades should have Gauss (imo). I rather run Tesla Immortals who can pop on them on 5s via MWBD/CW(or 4s if using Sautekh and it's Stratagem).


It really just comes down to the maths, which I don't have time to do right now, but I thought people had shown that tesla was better. However that may have been done for Immortals factoring in MWBD so might not apply to TBs.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 14:24:55


Post by: ImPhaeronWeasel


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Necron vehicles and anti-tank seems really fluffy to me.

The super high strength and AP on our anti tank seems like it was designed to fight stuff with toughness 8-9 and 2+ saves, while quantum shielded vehicles were meant to shrug off super weapons dealing 6+ damage.

It's almost like they came from a time with much more advanced battlefield technology than exists in 40k...


Unfortunately, in turns of army design we're still weak against vehicles, as we can't spam anti-tank like everyone else.
Which is why gauss used to have an anti-vehicle rule.

Its better now, as destroyers and the DDA did get a bit of a buff, but its still not that strong compared to other armies.


This.

I also love the fluff and the high AP value but wouldnt you think its a bit weird how the tech is so advanced to fight those high T weapons but our vehicles get wounded by „simple“ weapons fire (and the QS game design cannot do much against it since its D2 weapons mostly).


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 14:30:03


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


I also love the fluff and the high AP value but wouldnt you think its a bit weird how the tech is so advanced to fight those high T weapons but our vehicles get wounded by „simple“ weapons fire (and the QS game design cannot do much against it since its D2 weapons mostly).


It's like a future soldier with a suoer powerful sniper rifle and a bullet deflecting energy shield finds himself in close combat against a caveman with a spikey club.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 14:32:42


Post by: drakerocket


I'm sort of digging the concept of an all 'tough' list which relies little to nothing on our traditional toughness mechanics of reanimation protocols. Likely c'tan spam with a Tvault and possibly some wraiths backed with a few cryptecks. The goal being to provide no good target for low strength shooting. Not super competitive as it would lack an answer to hordes, but it'd probably be fun and have some strength against elites


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 14:33:00


Post by: Azuza001


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah ok, I see what you mean. That isn't really that much an increase of total MW.

2 Transcendent C'tans takes up 2 heavy slots though. Which is fine if you want to do that, but what if you want to fill the heavy slots with another unit?

The vault has more wounds too. 2 T C'tan have 16 wounds. The Vault has 28 wounds.

The spheres are a good secondary weapons system. You're looking at 20 S7 shots a turn, with a chance of making more shots. And with that volume of fire you will make more shots (at least 6 on average).
If it were a primary weapon then it would be kind of terrible, as most LoW have a juicy multi-damage weapon of some sort, but for the Vault it has powers of the C'tan as a primary weapon, so it can get away with it as MW are stupidly useful.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still wary of the vault's price as it only has a 4+ invul, but I don't think it can be completely written off and it has a place in an army.

Unlike the Obelisk, which is still mediocre and situational. Like, what's the point? No invul, only weapon are spheres and its special ability is situational and unreliable.
The vault at least has an invul and can deal mortal wounds freely. The Obelisk can't do that.


If your taking the obelisk your defiantly saving cp for the option to wound fliers on a 4+ instead of a 6+ with mortal wounds. I brought this up earlier I believe (could be in the other thread), that's a huge buff to its ability. That, plus deep strike, plus the tesla, the obelisk can potentially shut some armies down all together. Those are some nice, individual units of drones you have there tau. Hate to see anything bring them down. Oops, too late. :p

But yeah, after that it will die a horrible death to rail cannons I am sure :p. It needs an invulnerable or quantum shielding or something to help it out, as it stands its only protection is t8 and it's high wounds which won't go far.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 14:41:49


Post by: Odrankt


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wouldn't gauss work best with mephrit, as you can get a -3 save mod? Mephrit works best with rapid fire, imo, as you'd want to be in rapid fire range anyway to use it to its fullest potential, and the distance for that tends to be the same as the mephrit buff.


It depends on the unit my friend.

Mephrit Tesla Immortals buffed with MWBD out preform Gauss Immortals buffed by MWBD due to extra hits on 5s and 6s as well as everything being -1 if in half range. If you include the Stratagem that makes natural rolls of 6s to preform an extra hit also makes Tesla outshine Gauss even more if using Mephrit.

Gauss on Tomb Blades outshines Tesla in nearly everything though.Telsa is only better on TBs if your going up against massive squads of Orks, Poxwalkers, Cultists, Horrors etc. But that is situational at best.

If your running Immortals and Tomb Blades together then it better to have Tesla Immortals and Gauss Tomb Blades. But, if your only fielding Immortals or Tomb Blades it all depends on what you want them to do. Note that you can give some of your Tomb Blades Gauss and the others can have Tesla. It can help out the Tesla Immos vs Gauss T.Blades argument.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 14:42:02


Post by: drakerocket


Something like...

Spoiler:


Battalion:
Crypteck with cloak
CCB with Lord and Lightning Field

Immortal x5 x3 (backfield objectives)

Wraith x 6

Spearhead:
Crypteck with cloak

T C'tan
T C'tan
T'C'tan

Super Heavy
Vault




It'd end up being 9 powers of the c'tan a turn, probably about 20 mortal wounds per turn. Only valid targets are backfield immortals who will be out of range of a lot of stuff, will have cover for 2+ saves, wraiths which are horrible to fire at and the vault which is horrible to fire at. It will take a lot of shooting to break that wraith group, decent chance to pop back up. The assault strength would be pretty nasty as well with the c'tans, wraiths and CCB.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 14:48:31


Post by: iGuy91


drakerocket wrote:
Something like...

Spoiler:


Battalion:
Crypteck with cloak
CCB with Lord and Lightning Field

Immortal x5 x3 (backfield objectives)

Wraith x 6

Spearhead:
Crypteck with cloak

T C'tan
T C'tan
T'C'tan

Super Heavy
Vault




It'd end up being 9 powers of the c'tan a turn, probably about 20 mortal wounds per turn. Only valid targets are backfield immortals who will be out of range of a lot of stuff, will have cover for 2+ saves, wraiths which are horrible to fire at and the vault which is horrible to fire at. It will take a lot of shooting to break that wraith group, decent chance to pop back up. The assault strength would be pretty nasty as well with the c'tans, wraiths and CCB.


I hate that this exists. But I really like the potential here.
I assume you are using the wraiths to screen the T-Ctan up the board. I'd worry a bit about deep striking threats wiping out your troops and keeping you from scoring. Otherwise, elite armies will suffer vs it. Vs hordes....they might fare better since they handle mortal wounds better.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 14:57:48


Post by: Dionysodorus


ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

I also love the fluff and the high AP value but wouldnt you think its a bit weird how the tech is so advanced to fight those high T weapons but our vehicles get wounded by „simple“ weapons fire (and the QS game design cannot do much against it since its D2 weapons mostly).

I mean, stuff has to have a weakness or it's just overpowered. If your vehicle is exceptionally durable per point vs lascannons, it should be more fragile per point vs some other things.

It's true that there are currently 2 defensive profiles in the game that are often under-priced, and there are almost no good weapons for killing them, but this is certainly not a good thing for the game. There's basically no attack in the game that is more efficiently used against Guardsmen than against Space Marines: T3 5+ stuff is sometimes too cheap, and there are very few S2 or S3 weapons that would care a great deal about the difference between T3 and T4 (probably part of the reason there's no S2 is that it would be bizarrely efficient against T8). And then it's often very hard to get through T7 3+/4++, which is Hive Tyrants and Daemon Primarchs (and the Tesseract Vault). Again, this is partly due to a hole in weapon design -- what you want for this would be S8 AP-1 D:d6 or similar, but the closest you can find are krak missiles which are still wasting AP and are paying for a flexible firing mode rather than saving points on the worse-than-lascannon anti-tank profile. So this profile also ends up being under-priced more often than not. And then people need to bring so much inefficient AP-3 firepower to take these things down that more standard T7 3+ type things don't stand a chance in the meta.

Personally I think QS is really neat insofar as it lets you bring a few big vehicles without exposing yourself to lascannon fire, so you can field them alongside lots of smaller models. It's true that it ends up being really vulnerable to flat 2 or 3 damage weapons like plasma and Dark Reapers, but these are problematic for other reasons and GW should address them, hopefully soon.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 14:58:32


Post by: ThePie


Still torn between Mephrit and Sautekh.

Mephrit will boost your firepower in short range by quite a bit, while Sautekh will allow your warriors and immortals to reach the enemy, which can be helpful if you face gunlines.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:04:02


Post by: Klowny


Vehicles are not a trap,they are extremely durable and most games will be the only units left on the board as necron infantry are very fragile. I don’t get people still bringing warriors thinking they’re durable, they have a scout stat line on 5” M and short range guns..... with the stratagem vehicles become even more durable again.

Additionally, you have rocks in your head if you think sautekh isn’t the only way to run vehicles. A tesseract ark with assault main cannon? On it’s normal move +d6.... same with the stalker, DDA etc. opens up a world of mobility.

For people saying 2 ctan put out more Mw, you have to be very careful as you can’t pick the same power twice until all are chosen, you can spend a CP to get two but then you are still getting one weaker power.

The chart is good enough to warrant rolling for the upgrades, especially if your running two.

Necrons are still a very durable army, just not if you have a 7th ed mindset. Don’t expect RP to do anything for any unit that’s not t5 multi wound with a 3+ 5++.

Even destroyers aren’t awesome as you give up chronometron to get the cape......


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:06:05


Post by: Requizen


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah ok, I see what you mean. That isn't really that much an increase of total MW.

2 Transcendent C'tans takes up 2 heavy slots though. Which is fine if you want to do that, but what if you want to fill the heavy slots with another unit?

The vault has more wounds too. 2 T C'tan have 16 wounds. The Vault has 28 wounds.

The spheres are a good secondary weapons system. You're looking at 20 S7 shots a turn, with a chance of making more shots. And with that volume of fire you will make more shots (at least 6 on average).
If it were a primary weapon then it would be kind of terrible, as most LoW have a juicy multi-damage weapon of some sort, but for the Vault it has powers of the C'tan as a primary weapon, so it can get away with it as MW are stupidly useful.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still wary of the vault's price as it only has a 4+ invul, but I don't think it can be completely written off and it has a place in an army.

Unlike the Obelisk, which is still mediocre and situational. Like, what's the point? No invul, only weapon are spheres and its special ability is situational and unreliable.
The vault at least has an invul and can deal mortal wounds freely. The Obelisk can't do that.


T-C'tan having less wounds doesn't matter since they're Characters and can hide. Your Vault is going to be eating Lascannons/Missiles on turn 1 unless you Nephrekh DS it, the T-C'tan (or either of the others, for that matter) will be safe until they break through all your other stuff.

Spheres are then compared to the fact that the TVault can't combat - not much of an issue since it can Fly, but two T-C'tan will punch through most tough units in a turn with their very good combat statlines.

I'd say it's pretty comparable. Two T-C'tans with Cosmic Tyrant (or one choosing Cosmic Tyrant and one rolling two Personalities) will put out as much MWs per turn, but also be able to be hidden and punch things to death. I'd prefer the two T-C'tans personally as I don't like having one model worth 1/4 of the army, and also I don't own a Vault.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:07:35


Post by: Klowny


 ThePie wrote:
Still torn between Mephrit and Sautekh.

Mephrit will boost your firepower in short range by quite a bit, while Sautekh will allow your warriors and immortals to reach the enemy, which can be helpful if you face gunlines.


I think mephrit is good for an alpha strike if you invest heavily in deployment options (A deciever, monolith/NS, veil and stratagems). That way you can get the stupid number of warriors/Gimmortals/destroyers into half range to start doing savage damage.

But the CP farming warlord trait, coming from running a gman heavy marine list for the past few months, is just head and shoulders above the rest. Especially considering how hard it is to get lots of CP being an expensive army. The good thing is that most of the good Strats are cheap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Requizen wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah ok, I see what you mean. That isn't really that much an increase of total MW.

2 Transcendent C'tans takes up 2 heavy slots though. Which is fine if you want to do that, but what if you want to fill the heavy slots with another unit?

The vault has more wounds too. 2 T C'tan have 16 wounds. The Vault has 28 wounds.

The spheres are a good secondary weapons system. You're looking at 20 S7 shots a turn, with a chance of making more shots. And with that volume of fire you will make more shots (at least 6 on average).
If it were a primary weapon then it would be kind of terrible, as most LoW have a juicy multi-damage weapon of some sort, but for the Vault it has powers of the C'tan as a primary weapon, so it can get away with it as MW are stupidly useful.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still wary of the vault's price as it only has a 4+ invul, but I don't think it can be completely written off and it has a place in an army.

Unlike the Obelisk, which is still mediocre and situational. Like, what's the point? No invul, only weapon are spheres and its special ability is situational and unreliable.
The vault at least has an invul and can deal mortal wounds freely. The Obelisk can't do that.


T-C'tan having less wounds doesn't matter since they're Characters and can hide. Your Vault is going to be eating Lascannons/Missiles on turn 1 unless you Nephrekh DS it, the T-C'tan (or either of the others, for that matter) will be safe until they break through all your other stuff.

Spheres are then compared to the fact that the TVault can't combat - not much of an issue since it can Fly, but two T-C'tan will punch through most tough units in a turn with their very good combat statlines.

I'd say it's pretty comparable. Two T-C'tans with Cosmic Tyrant (or one choosing Cosmic Tyrant and one rolling two Personalities) will put out as much MWs per turn, but also be able to be hidden and punch things to death. I'd prefer the two T-C'tans personally as I don't like having one model worth 1/4 of the army, and also I don't own a Vault.


Having run c'tan heavy index lists, you will find that unless its the nightbringer, c'tan dont actually do that much killing. 4 attacks means they normally kill 2-3 models at best, which is pointless against a horde, and alot of dedicated melee have ++, which drastically reduces the c'tans output


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:15:46


Post by: Darsath


 Klowny wrote:
Vehicles are not a trap,they are extremely durable and most games will be the only units left on the board as necron infantry are very fragile. I don’t get people still bringing warriors thinking they’re durable, they have a scout stat line on 5” M and short range guns..... with the stratagem vehicles become even more durable again.

Additionally, you have rocks in your head if you think sautekh isn’t the only way to run vehicles. A tesseract ark with assault main cannon? On it’s normal move +d6.... same with the stalker, DDA etc. opens up a world of mobility.

For people saying 2 ctan put out more Mw, you have to be very careful as you can’t pick the same power twice until all are chosen, you can spend a CP to get two but then you are still getting one weaker power.

The chart is good enough to warrant rolling for the upgrades, especially if your running two.

Necrons are still a very durable army, just not if you have a 7th ed mindset. Don’t expect RP to do anything for any unit that’s not t5 multi wound with a 3+ 5++.

Even destroyers aren’t awesome as you give up chronometron to get the cape......


Vehicles were not durable before, and not much has changed. If you are leaning towards forgeworld though then whatever. Those units aren't in the codex so I wasn't discussing them. Sautek is certainly not worth it for the code. The warlord trait, strat and relic maybe, but the code really is so so. maybe it's good for Forgeworld stuff, but I don't touch forgeworld.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:21:25


Post by: Requizen


 Klowny wrote:


Having run c'tan heavy index lists, you will find that unless its the nightbringer, c'tan dont actually do that much killing. 4 attacks means they normally kill 2-3 models at best, which is pointless against a horde, and alot of dedicated melee have ++, which drastically reduces the c'tans output


++ can be worked around somewhat with Entropic Strike now, to be fair.

Their preferred targets are multiwounds with no or poor Invuln, which do exist - Primaris are a thing, especially Aggressors, some of the Nid big bugs, most Vehicles don't have Invulns in combat. Hitting Characters as well is a valid choice, since even if their Invuln blocks some of your attacks, you only need a couple good D6 roll to pop most foot or bike heroes.

Obviously they're not clearing Hordes or MSU that well, though. But no matter what it's better than TVault hitting on 6" doing 1 Damage.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:21:58


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


 Klowny wrote:
Vehicles are not a trap,they are extremely durable and most games will be the only units left on the board as necron infantry are very fragile. I don’t get people still bringing warriors thinking they’re durable, they have a scout stat line on 5” M and short range guns..... with the stratagem vehicles become even more durable again.

Additionally, you have rocks in your head if you think sautekh isn’t the only way to run vehicles. A tesseract ark with assault main cannon? On it’s normal move +d6.... same with the stalker, DDA etc. opens up a world of mobility.

....


Agreed on the infantry being squishy.

I can't agree on Sautekhs Code though. It's by far the worst of the bunch. I played a game last night and it never came up. There are no units in the codex that get any great benefit from it, DDAs do not want to move. Stalkers don't get it anyway. Forgeworld stuff I can't comment on though. The stratagem was not as useful as I expected but still seems decent. The WL trait is brilliant no doubt.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:23:52


Post by: Requizen


Sautekh does affect CCBarges with Guass underslung, I guess, or TBeamer Wraiths. However, Wraiths are not really there for their shooting prowess (and would rather be Novokh or Neprekh), while the CCB will just take Tesla instead.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:25:41


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


I'd still take the Gauss cannon over tesla. Its a damn fine gun even hitting on 3s.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:26:00


Post by: Klowny


I mean, they are vastly more durable than t4 4+ with no QS.

Necron durability in 8th has always gone Wraith>Vehicles/ctan>everything else.

Yes I was talking mainly about the tesseract ark, a necron vehicle that was a standout in index, even more now. The tomb sentinel is now not hamstrung, the Doom scythe is useable.

Tomb blades can move 20" now, and still put out 18 S5 -2 1d shots... vs moving 20" before and not shooting at all. How is that bad?

Just cus you dont play with them doesn't mean they're not powerful.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:27:28


Post by: Red Corsair


Darsath wrote:
Tomb Blades (or Destroyers) accompanied by a Cryptek with the Cloak will be pretty good I think. I don't Sautek being useful as an army trait as most of the vehicles seem like traps to me. C'tan are pretty good. In particular the Transcendent C'tan being able to use 2 powers each turn could be pretty solid in most lists.


You can't have the cloak and the cronometron though. Not a huge deal since destroyers don't need a cloaktek and TB can already take a 5++ but thought I would point that out in case anyone missed it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
dapperbandit wrote:
It'd be really nice if units with the Triarch codeword had their own in built ability. Having Stalkers and Praetorians that can't combo with your Dynasty Code, Dynasty abilities or Dynasty strategies is just awkward.

I know Praetorians have their own morale ability but something specific to the Triarch codeword itself that would work on Stalkers too would be nice.

Also

The question is, with the Transcendent C'Tan, do you pick Cosmic Tyrant for Fractured Personality or roll for two random abilities? The perfect roll for me would be Cosmic Tyrant and Transdimensional Displacement. Do an Assault move 20" up the board and then use two Powers of the C'Tan straight away.


It would fit the fluff if they made nearby units immune to moral as well. That would make a stalker a must take in phalanx builds though.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:34:05


Post by: Klowny


Requizen wrote:
 Klowny wrote:


Having run c'tan heavy index lists, you will find that unless its the nightbringer, c'tan dont actually do that much killing. 4 attacks means they normally kill 2-3 models at best, which is pointless against a horde, and alot of dedicated melee have ++, which drastically reduces the c'tans output


++ can be worked around somewhat with Entropic Strike now, to be fair.

Their preferred targets are multiwounds with no or poor Invuln, which do exist - Primaris are a thing, especially Aggressors, some of the Nid big bugs, most Vehicles don't have Invulns in combat. Hitting Characters as well is a valid choice, since even if their Invuln blocks some of your attacks, you only need a couple good D6 roll to pop most foot or bike heroes.

Obviously they're not clearing Hordes or MSU that well, though. But no matter what it's better than TVault hitting on 6" doing 1 Damage.


I agree, but then again, with all the MW that are being spewed out, and the high quality shooting we have, marines were never a problem for us to take care of. Entropic strike is a single attack... I wouldn't burn a CP for it unless I desperately had to kill something.

S7 vs vehicles isnt that great, most of the time you are getting only 50% of your hits through as wounds, against t8 its even worse though :(

The Nightbringer IS a close combat monster, but that is because his shooting attack and the way he fights. You look at things really hard, kill a bunch, charge in, hit and wound on 2's, kill a bunch more, then fall back and look at stuff really angrily again and just eat things for breakfast. Now that he can do that while also spew mortal wounds.... he looks tasty.

Counter point is that the vault IS good at clearing hordes while still being super tough, and can pump out lots of MW a turn. At 2k I'm looking at a vault and either the Nightbringer or the T/C'tan, want to playtest if the 2nd power is worth losing the dakka of the nightbringer.... its nothing to shy away from. Plus he is the cheapest.


Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
Vehicles are not a trap,they are extremely durable and most games will be the only units left on the board as necron infantry are very fragile. I don’t get people still bringing warriors thinking they’re durable, they have a scout stat line on 5” M and short range guns..... with the stratagem vehicles become even more durable again.

Additionally, you have rocks in your head if you think sautekh isn’t the only way to run vehicles. A tesseract ark with assault main cannon? On it’s normal move +d6.... same with the stalker, DDA etc. opens up a world of mobility.

....


Agreed on the infantry being squishy.

I can't agree on Sautekhs Code though. It's by far the worst of the bunch. I played a game last night and it never came up. There are no units in the codex that get any great benefit from it, DDAs do not want to move. Stalkers don't get it anyway. Forgeworld stuff I can't comment on though. The stratagem was not as useful as I expected but still seems decent. The WL trait is brilliant no doubt.



DDA doesn't want to move, i give you that. Buf if it NEEDS to move, you can now move its full distance and advance extra, and still open up with its low power shots while also firing its flayer arrays. Compared to moving before, taking a penalty to shoot if you did or moving and advancing and not being able to shoot at all.

Red Corsair wrote:
Darsath wrote:
Tomb Blades (or Destroyers) accompanied by a Cryptek with the Cloak will be pretty good I think. I don't Sautek being useful as an army trait as most of the vehicles seem like traps to me. C'tan are pretty good. In particular the Transcendent C'tan being able to use 2 powers each turn could be pretty solid in most lists.


You can't have the cloak and the cronometron though. Not a huge deal since destroyers don't need a cloaktek and TB can already take a 5++ but thought I would point that out in case anyone missed it.


Destroyers 10000% need the 5++, they are very strong now and its not hard to kill T5 multiwound models that are low in volume.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:37:08


Post by: Red Corsair


Darsath wrote:
Using a 500 point model, I hardly think it would be useful as an unreliable character sniper. Probably better using other powers since it gets enhanced versions of them all.


He's barfing 3 powers but knows 4. Odds are your taking times arrow on the vault to burn it for better choices on any other C'tan in the list anyway, so it's not a big deal but on the vault could be. Don't know about you but lieutenants drive me nuts, same with that banner jerk, both die on a 4+ from the Tvault and take away a MAJOR boon.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:38:19


Post by: Dionysodorus


 Klowny wrote:

Destroyers 10000% need the 5++, they are very strong now and its not hard to kill T5 multiwound models that are low in volume.

It depends very much on what you're up against. They're Infantry with 3+ saves, so if you can get them cover they already have at least a 5+ save against AP-3 or worse. In a lot of metas you're rarely going to see AP-4.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:40:26


Post by: Klowny


Dionysodorus wrote:
 Klowny wrote:

Destroyers 10000% need the 5++, they are very strong now and its not hard to kill T5 multiwound models that are low in volume.

It depends very much on what you're up against. They're Infantry with 3+ saves, so if you can get them cover they already have at least a 5+ save against AP-3 or worse. In a lot of metas you're rarely going to see AP-4.


Yep I can see that, but realistically they aren't going to benefit from cover much due to the physical size of a squad of 6, theyre hefty bois afterall.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:40:42


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


 Klowny wrote:
I mean, they are vastly more durable than t4 4+ with no QS.

Necron durability in 8th has always gone Wraith>Vehicles/ctan>everything else.

Yes I was talking mainly about the tesseract ark, a necron vehicle that was a standout in index, even more now. The tomb sentinel is now not hamstrung, the Doom scythe is useable.

Tomb blades can move 20" now, and still put out 18 S5 -2 1d shots... vs moving 20" before and not shooting at all. How is that bad?

Just cus you dont play with them doesn't mean they're not powerful.



Why would you ever advance tomb blades an extra D6" to hit at -1? You only get one shot each if you do that so I can't imagine not being in range after a 14" move with a 24" range.

I don't think much of the Doom Scythe sadly, I certainly wouldn't pick a dynasty for it's benefit.

Sautekh seems like it will be good for some of the forgeworld stuff then and that's about it.


Sautekh reminds me of Ilyanden for eldar: it could do this, it could do that, but then I play a game and it doesn't even trigger once. Ilyanden and Sautekh are the only faction traits I have ever seen that just don't trigger all game.




Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:45:20


Post by: Requizen


Can you mix picks and rolls for the C'tan powers? Wording is kinda iffy. Like, can I pick Sky of Falling Stars/Transdimensional Thunderbolt on one, and then pick Antimatter Meteor on the next but roll for the second power, hoping to get Sky or TBolt again?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:51:01


Post by: Odrankt


I don't think much of the Doom Scythe sadly, I certainly wouldn't pick a dynasty for it's benefit.


I think you are over looking the Dscythes potential. 3 Dscythes in a Sautekh Air detachment is 615pts of 24 S7 Tesla shots and 3d3 S10 -4 D3 weapons all hitting on 3s. Plus, for 1 CP you can give up that 3D3 S10 hits for picking a point within 24" of the Dscythes and can do 3d3 Mortal Wounds to everything with 3" of that point. Actually, you don't even need the Sautekh benefit if your using their Stratgem. Mephrit Dscythes shooting their Tesla guns and doing Mortal Wounds sounds like fun for 615pts. Probably not competitive though.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:52:46


Post by: Red Corsair


Dionysodorus wrote:
I'm not really sold on the Vault, outside of maybe a spam list. It's really, really durable, sure, but its main output is just 3 enhanced C'tan powers. Mostly this enhancement isn't that great.

Compared to a regular C'tan, the Vault is:
13% better with Antimatter Meteor
No better at killing W1 models with Time's Arrow, and 33% better at killing W3 models
25% better at hitting 5-model units with Sky of Falling Stars, and no better at hitting 6+ units, though of course infinitely better at hitting single models (but this is inefficient)
33% better at Cosmic Fire, plus it's bigger so might be closer to more units (on the other hand a regular C'tan probably has an easier time running into the middle of a bunch of enemy units).
100% better at Seismic Assault, though you need a pretty big unit still to make this better than other options
33% better against the initial target of Transdimensional Thunderbolt, and no better against everything around it

2 T'C'tans put out more MWs unless you're staring down something like a Boyz horde, and they cost less. They're more fragile but they're characters, and they're also pretty decent in CC. Plus you can use a stratagem to duplicate a power across the T'C'tans to get multiple casts of Sky or whatever other power is best-suited for the game.


Your forgetting the biggest flaw. The powers occur in the movement phase, meaning you cannot use the 4 spheres for clearing chaf turn 1. So more then likely your first turn is going to be meh. for referrence, my guard and my chaos both run 40 or more 4 point models at the front. They screen back drop troops from melta range on my good units. This means you hardly ever going to be targeting my good units and mostly just obliterating the dude I want you to obliterate. I think 3 vaults in one list is hilarious because if you sit them on objectives it becomes impossible for certain armies to get them off and you can just MW the crap out of any units that come charging in but I am thinking 2 Transtans are better then a single vault in any normal build.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:53:16


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


Probably not competitive though


That was my thinking.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:54:31


Post by: Lothmar


Does the abysall staffs effect still work on low leadership model hordes that get artificial leadership like Nids / Orks?

…Since the 'Phaerons will' strategy is use a characters MWBD ability for a second time in a turn, does that mean Imotekhs version that lets him MWBD 2 squads in a turn would let him MWBD 4 units if this was used? Or would he only get one extra use of mwbd for a total of 3 if the ability just lets him use the mwbd ability a second time?

Is the orb of eternity just a +1 rez orb, or is it Use the +1 effect once per battle and then it is still a rez orb so you can use that effect after?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:54:42


Post by: Klowny


Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
I mean, they are vastly more durable than t4 4+ with no QS.

Necron durability in 8th has always gone Wraith>Vehicles/ctan>everything else.

Yes I was talking mainly about the tesseract ark, a necron vehicle that was a standout in index, even more now. The tomb sentinel is now not hamstrung, the Doom scythe is useable.

Tomb blades can move 20" now, and still put out 18 S5 -2 1d shots... vs moving 20" before and not shooting at all. How is that bad?

Just cus you dont play with them doesn't mean they're not powerful.



Why would you ever advance tomb blades an extra D6" to hit at -1? You only get one shot each if you do that so I can't imagine not being in range after a 14" move with a 24" range.

I don't think much of the Doom Scythe sadly, I certainly wouldn't pick a dynasty for it's benefit.

Sautekh seems like it will be good for some of the forgeworld stuff then and that's about it.


Sautekh reminds me of Ilyanden for eldar: it could do this, it could do that, but then I play a game and it doesn't even trigger once. Ilyanden and Sautekh are the only faction traits I have ever seen that just don't trigger all game.




I dont think much of hte DS either, but its the only dynasty you get a buff for it...

Lets say, its late game, you need to get an objective that has 5 marines on it.... and its 18" away. Sautekh can reach it, blast the marines, and cap the objective. No other dynasty can.

i have had many opportunities where I needed to advance my TB, but couldnt because I needed the firepower. Now you get both.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 15:59:47


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


Lets say, its late game, you need to get an objective that has 5 marines on it.... and its 18" away. Sautekh can reach it, blast the marines, and cap the objective. No other dynasty can.


You're really really reaching here.

The tomb blades could just shoot a bit then charge.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:10:15


Post by: Klowny


I mean yeah you could forgoe a guaranteed cap vs hope to get a charge off.

Yea I'm reaching, but its objectively better than the nephrekh, nihilakh is trash. Mephrit is okay for the round of shooting you get before you get hugged and cant shoot anymore, Novokh is good if you want to run CC cron's, but we aren't a CC army, and its not a CC meta so your gimping yourself if you run that dynasty.....

Sautekh has the best warlord trait, amazing relic and stratagem. The code benefit is just the cherry on top. Its not amazing, but it gives you options, and doesn't remove your firepower for getting that extra movement most cron armies struggle to have (what with the ol terribly slow infantry)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:11:36


Post by: Grimgold


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Destroyers will wound T7 on fires, not 4s. Their weapons are still below S7.
Heavy Destroyers, who have a S9 gun, will wound T7 on 3s.
Annihilation Barges have a S7 weapon, so that will wound T7 on 4s.

Yeah, the forge bane box seems to shaft necrons. I guess if you get the charge off with scytheguard you can probably kill an armiger, as you are looking at about 10 attacks, wound on 4+ (S5+2) and dealing 2 damage each.


As shown seems like a fair fight, because the three wraiths are a good match for an armiger, especially if they get the drop on him. Things are a little less in necrons favor with lychguard vs Armiger, at least with dispersion shields. The ten man Skitarii unit is in a rough spot against the immortals, Gauss blasters/tesla carbines are just the better guns, and immortals are the tougher unit. The two leaders are less beatsticks and more unit support, The Dominus is in a better spot to support since he can repair the armigers, if he can get to them, but the Cryptek is more mobile and the staff of Light is a much better weapon.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:16:03


Post by: Red Corsair


 Klowny wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote:
 Klowny wrote:

Destroyers 10000% need the 5++, they are very strong now and its not hard to kill T5 multiwound models that are low in volume.

It depends very much on what you're up against. They're Infantry with 3+ saves, so if you can get them cover they already have at least a 5+ save against AP-3 or worse. In a lot of metas you're rarely going to see AP-4.


Yep I can see that, but realistically they aren't going to benefit from cover much due to the physical size of a squad of 6, theyre hefty bois afterall.


You also misunderstood my point, I wasn't saying they don't need a cryptek, I was saying the CLOAK was not necessary since once they drop in they don't really need to move like the bikes. So in other words, take a cloaktek with bike and crono with destroyers. It is less the invuln and more the +1 to RP you want anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Odrankt wrote:
I don't think much of the Doom Scythe sadly, I certainly wouldn't pick a dynasty for it's benefit.


I think you are over looking the Dscythes potential. 3 Dscythes in a Sautekh Air detachment is 615pts of 24 S7 Tesla shots and 3d3 S10 -4 D3 weapons all hitting on 3s. Plus, for 1 CP you can give up that 3D3 S10 hits for picking a point within 24" of the Dscythes and can do 3d3 Mortal Wounds to everything with 3" of that point. Actually, you don't even need the Sautekh benefit if your using their Stratgem. Mephrit Dscythes shooting their Tesla guns and doing Mortal Wounds sounds like fun for 615pts. Probably not competitive though.


That strat is garbage, it's existed in every marine book for vindicators and has never been good. Also, not sure on the math, but while your gaining +1 to hit on the main gun, mephrit for example will make all those destructors -1. Doomscythe is definitely OK from sautek, but it is so expensive. I think it's gun needed to be 3 shots. Right now it's over 100 points per shot with a -1 to hit ignoring traits. It is averaging 2 shots for 100 points per shot. A predator annihilator pays around 50 points per shot. I think the DDA is head an shoulders above the doomS unfortunately and it doesn't want to move do to it's main gun anyway.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:24:20


Post by: Klowny


 Red Corsair wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote:
 Klowny wrote:

Destroyers 10000% need the 5++, they are very strong now and its not hard to kill T5 multiwound models that are low in volume.

It depends very much on what you're up against. They're Infantry with 3+ saves, so if you can get them cover they already have at least a 5+ save against AP-3 or worse. In a lot of metas you're rarely going to see AP-4.


Yep I can see that, but realistically they aren't going to benefit from cover much due to the physical size of a squad of 6, theyre hefty bois afterall.


You also misunderstood my point, I wasn't saying they don't need a cryptek, I was saying the CLOAK was not necessary since once they drop in they don't really need to move like the bikes. So in other words, take a cloaktek with bike and crono with destroyers. It is less the invuln and more the +1 to RP you want anyway.


Ah yep, my apologies mate Yeah I see what your saying now


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:25:45


Post by: Requizen


 Red Corsair wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote:
 Klowny wrote:

Destroyers 10000% need the 5++, they are very strong now and its not hard to kill T5 multiwound models that are low in volume.

It depends very much on what you're up against. They're Infantry with 3+ saves, so if you can get them cover they already have at least a 5+ save against AP-3 or worse. In a lot of metas you're rarely going to see AP-4.


Yep I can see that, but realistically they aren't going to benefit from cover much due to the physical size of a squad of 6, theyre hefty bois afterall.


You also misunderstood my point, I wasn't saying they don't need a cryptek, I was saying the CLOAK was not necessary since once they drop in they don't really need to move like the bikes. So in other words, take a cloaktek with bike and crono with destroyers. It is less the invuln and more the +1 to RP you want anyway.



Only issue I have with that, is when you DS Nephrekh Destroyers, there's no way for a Foot Cryptek to catch up, while a Nephrekh Cloaktek is moving 16" to get into support range of them. But hopefully, your DS Destroyers will be dropping into a safe location and killing enough anyway.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:26:04


Post by: Red Corsair


 Klowny wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote:
 Klowny wrote:

Destroyers 10000% need the 5++, they are very strong now and its not hard to kill T5 multiwound models that are low in volume.

It depends very much on what you're up against. They're Infantry with 3+ saves, so if you can get them cover they already have at least a 5+ save against AP-3 or worse. In a lot of metas you're rarely going to see AP-4.


Yep I can see that, but realistically they aren't going to benefit from cover much due to the physical size of a squad of 6, theyre hefty bois afterall.


You also misunderstood my point, I wasn't saying they don't need a cryptek, I was saying the CLOAK was not necessary since once they drop in they don't really need to move like the bikes. So in other words, take a cloaktek with bike and crono with destroyers. It is less the invuln and more the +1 to RP you want anyway.


Ah yep, my apologies mate Yeah I see what your saying now


I could have made it more clear, no worries


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:27:00


Post by: Klowny


 Red Corsair wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote:
 Klowny wrote:

Destroyers 10000% need the 5++, they are very strong now and its not hard to kill T5 multiwound models that are low in volume.

It depends very much on what you're up against. They're Infantry with 3+ saves, so if you can get them cover they already have at least a 5+ save against AP-3 or worse. In a lot of metas you're rarely going to see AP-4.


Yep I can see that, but realistically they aren't going to benefit from cover much due to the physical size of a squad of 6, theyre hefty bois afterall.


You also misunderstood my point, I wasn't saying they don't need a cryptek, I was saying the CLOAK was not necessary since once they drop in they don't really need to move like the bikes. So in other words, take a cloaktek with bike and crono with destroyers. It is less the invuln and more the +1 to RP you want anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Odrankt wrote:
I don't think much of the Doom Scythe sadly, I certainly wouldn't pick a dynasty for it's benefit.


I think you are over looking the Dscythes potential. 3 Dscythes in a Sautekh Air detachment is 615pts of 24 S7 Tesla shots and 3d3 S10 -4 D3 weapons all hitting on 3s. Plus, for 1 CP you can give up that 3D3 S10 hits for picking a point within 24" of the Dscythes and can do 3d3 Mortal Wounds to everything with 3" of that point. Actually, you don't even need the Sautekh benefit if your using their Stratgem. Mephrit Dscythes shooting their Tesla guns and doing Mortal Wounds sounds like fun for 615pts. Probably not competitive though.


That strat is garbage, it's existed in every marine book for vindicators and has never been good. Also, not sure on the math, but while your gaining +1 to hit on the main gun, mephrit for example will make all those destructors -1. Doomscythe is definitely OK from sautek, but it is so expensive. I think it's gun needed to be 3 shots. Right now it's over 100 points per shot with a -1 to hit ignoring traits. It is averaging 2 shots for 100 points per shot. A predator annihilator pays around 50 points per shot. I think the DDA is head an shoulders above the doomS unfortunately and it doesn't want to move do to it's main gun anyway.


Yeah I agree, my point wasn't if a DS was good, just saying sautekh improves it quite a lot. Mephrit does too.

And yeah, a DDA doesnt want to move, but if it gets hugged you dont have a massive penalty like you used to, unlike any other dynasty where it gets hugged, its now -1 to hit on its baby profile :(

Or if you spy a nasty CC threat on the horizon, you get the hell out of dodge, move the full distance in the opposite direction, advance d6, and can still shoot your flayer arrays and baby profile. Which you cant do with any other dynasty...


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:33:18


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


 Klowny wrote:
I mean yeah you could forgoe a guaranteed cap vs hope to get a charge off.

Yea I'm reaching, but its objectively better than the nephrekh, nihilakh is trash. Mephrit is okay for the round of shooting you get before you get hugged and cant shoot anymore, Novokh is good if you want to run CC cron's, but we aren't a CC army, and its not a CC meta so your gimping yourself if you run that dynasty.....

Sautekh has the best warlord trait, amazing relic and stratagem. The code benefit is just the cherry on top. Its not amazing, but it gives you options, and doesn't remove your firepower for getting that extra movement most cron armies struggle to have (what with the ol terribly slow infantry)


Hang on, when you say objectively better do you mean the code or the Dynasty as a whole? If it's the whole package then there is an argument to be made (but your use of the term objectively is objectively wrong). If you mean just the code then I can't even fathom why you would think that.

You say Nihilak is trash. DDAs will get reroll 1's to hit every turn with them- not amazing but it's something, it WILL happen. By comparison if you use gauss TBs in a Sautekh list then there is a very specific situation, when the distances are just right, that you can take an objective off 5 marines??



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:37:00


Post by: Red Corsair


Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
I mean yeah you could forgoe a guaranteed cap vs hope to get a charge off.

Yea I'm reaching, but its objectively better than the nephrekh, nihilakh is trash. Mephrit is okay for the round of shooting you get before you get hugged and cant shoot anymore, Novokh is good if you want to run CC cron's, but we aren't a CC army, and its not a CC meta so your gimping yourself if you run that dynasty.....

Sautekh has the best warlord trait, amazing relic and stratagem. The code benefit is just the cherry on top. Its not amazing, but it gives you options, and doesn't remove your firepower for getting that extra movement most cron armies struggle to have (what with the ol terribly slow infantry)


Hang on, when you say objectively better do you mean the code or the Dynasty as a whole? If it's the whole package then there is an argument to be made (but your use of the term objectively is objectively wrong). If you mean just the code then I can't even fathom why you would think that.

You say Nihilak is trash. DDAs will get reroll 1's to hit every turn with them- not amazing but it's something, it WILL happen. By comparison if you use gauss TBs in a Sautekh list then there is a very specific situation, when the distances are just right, that you can take an objective off 5 marines??



I'd argue rerolls 1 is amazing. Couple that with a normal lord and your rocking the same backfield castle that any marine list is only your not paying for a captain. I could see 2-3 DDA and or HD and a lord from a Nihilak spearhead being well worth it in fact.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:39:33


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


 Red Corsair wrote:




I'd argue rerolls 1 is amazing. Couple that with a normal lord and your rocking the same backfield castle that any marine list is only your not paying for a captain. I could see 2-3 DDA and or HD and a lord from a Nihilak spearhead being well worth it in fact.


Oh I agree, I was just going for a little example. The Nihilakh strat is also interesting for the potential 2++ sv on Wraith.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:40:35


Post by: Red Corsair


Just deploy it:
<DoomsDayArk> <DoomsDayArk> <DoomsDayArk>
......................................(Lord)...................................................

The Stupid long hull that you can shoot off any point should mean you never really need to move, it also backlines most of your Dzone.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:42:53


Post by: Requizen


 Red Corsair wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
I mean yeah you could forgoe a guaranteed cap vs hope to get a charge off.

Yea I'm reaching, but its objectively better than the nephrekh, nihilakh is trash. Mephrit is okay for the round of shooting you get before you get hugged and cant shoot anymore, Novokh is good if you want to run CC cron's, but we aren't a CC army, and its not a CC meta so your gimping yourself if you run that dynasty.....

Sautekh has the best warlord trait, amazing relic and stratagem. The code benefit is just the cherry on top. Its not amazing, but it gives you options, and doesn't remove your firepower for getting that extra movement most cron armies struggle to have (what with the ol terribly slow infantry)


Hang on, when you say objectively better do you mean the code or the Dynasty as a whole? If it's the whole package then there is an argument to be made (but your use of the term objectively is objectively wrong). If you mean just the code then I can't even fathom why you would think that.

You say Nihilak is trash. DDAs will get reroll 1's to hit every turn with them- not amazing but it's something, it WILL happen. By comparison if you use gauss TBs in a Sautekh list then there is a very specific situation, when the distances are just right, that you can take an objective off 5 marines??



I'd argue rerolls 1 is amazing. Couple that with a normal lord and your rocking the same backfield castle that any marine list is only your not paying for a captain. I could see 2-3 DDA and or HD and a lord from a Nihilak spearhead being well worth it in fact.


There's no comparison with our castles. Marines are running those with Devastators or Hellblasters. Our equivalents to those are Destroyers, which already reroll 1s. Immortals of either variety are not putting out the same damage as Imperial Gunlines even with Nihilakh and Lords. So really it's only to buff DDArks, which is nice... but not imo worth taking a whole detachment for.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:43:55


Post by: Red Corsair


Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:




I'd argue rerolls 1 is amazing. Couple that with a normal lord and your rocking the same backfield castle that any marine list is only your not paying for a captain. I could see 2-3 DDA and or HD and a lord from a Nihilak spearhead being well worth it in fact.


Oh I agree, I was just going for a little example. The Nihilakh strat is also interesting for the potential 2++ sv on Wraith.


Yea I thought of that too, advance and charge a unit on an objective, pop the strat, laugh maniacally. That unit will gobble your CP's though since you'll reanimate them if they live through the smites.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:45:07


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


Yeah, always deploy DDAs sideways on along the board edge. Mine almost never died in the index and the new QS strat is super good.

Lord doesn't help DDAs, not sure if you were suggesting that.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:47:24


Post by: Red Corsair


Requizen wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
I mean yeah you could forgoe a guaranteed cap vs hope to get a charge off.

Yea I'm reaching, but its objectively better than the nephrekh, nihilakh is trash. Mephrit is okay for the round of shooting you get before you get hugged and cant shoot anymore, Novokh is good if you want to run CC cron's, but we aren't a CC army, and its not a CC meta so your gimping yourself if you run that dynasty.....

Sautekh has the best warlord trait, amazing relic and stratagem. The code benefit is just the cherry on top. Its not amazing, but it gives you options, and doesn't remove your firepower for getting that extra movement most cron armies struggle to have (what with the ol terribly slow infantry)


Hang on, when you say objectively better do you mean the code or the Dynasty as a whole? If it's the whole package then there is an argument to be made (but your use of the term objectively is objectively wrong). If you mean just the code then I can't even fathom why you would think that.

You say Nihilak is trash. DDAs will get reroll 1's to hit every turn with them- not amazing but it's something, it WILL happen. By comparison if you use gauss TBs in a Sautekh list then there is a very specific situation, when the distances are just right, that you can take an objective off 5 marines??



I'd argue rerolls 1 is amazing. Couple that with a normal lord and your rocking the same backfield castle that any marine list is only your not paying for a captain. I could see 2-3 DDA and or HD and a lord from a Nihilak spearhead being well worth it in fact.


There's no comparison with our castles. Marines are running those with Devastators or Hellblasters. Our equivalents to those are Destroyers, which already reroll 1s. Immortals of either variety are not putting out the same damage as Imperial Gunlines even with Nihilakh and Lords. So really it's only to buff DDArks, which is nice... but not imo worth taking a whole detachment for.


I play with and against those armies, your giving them too much credit. Hell blasters are OK, it's in DA that they shine and they are using Az, a Banner, Lieutenant, Dark shroud and CP's so again, not even remotely a fair comparison. A DDA is comparable to a predator annihilator, it's random shots are mitigated as soon as you take more then 1. Only it's basically imune to the return AT thanks to QS. Plasma is a good counter, but they are not going to be getting into good range.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Yeah, always deploy DDAs sideways on along the board edge. Mine almost never died in the index and the new QS strat is super good.

Lord doesn't help DDAs, not sure if you were suggesting that.


A Your right. I hate playing several armies when they decide to make identical abilities only they effect different types of units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In that Case take a cloak cryptek and slap a wrench on the hurt arch and QS strat another if needed. I still rate that castle. It's a crazy solution to AT and at the same time throws out 60 gauss flayer shots when you need it in your half.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:50:36


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


Made the same mistake myself.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:52:29


Post by: necrontyrOG


Any thoughts on a Mephrit D. Lord with the Voltaic Staff and the Mephrit Warlord trait? Seems like a nice fit for a Destroyer Cult HQ. 6" Shorter range Gauss Cannon basically that can snipe characters and put out the occasional Mortal Wound.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:53:06


Post by: Requizen


 Red Corsair wrote:
Requizen wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
I mean yeah you could forgoe a guaranteed cap vs hope to get a charge off.

Yea I'm reaching, but its objectively better than the nephrekh, nihilakh is trash. Mephrit is okay for the round of shooting you get before you get hugged and cant shoot anymore, Novokh is good if you want to run CC cron's, but we aren't a CC army, and its not a CC meta so your gimping yourself if you run that dynasty.....

Sautekh has the best warlord trait, amazing relic and stratagem. The code benefit is just the cherry on top. Its not amazing, but it gives you options, and doesn't remove your firepower for getting that extra movement most cron armies struggle to have (what with the ol terribly slow infantry)


Hang on, when you say objectively better do you mean the code or the Dynasty as a whole? If it's the whole package then there is an argument to be made (but your use of the term objectively is objectively wrong). If you mean just the code then I can't even fathom why you would think that.

You say Nihilak is trash. DDAs will get reroll 1's to hit every turn with them- not amazing but it's something, it WILL happen. By comparison if you use gauss TBs in a Sautekh list then there is a very specific situation, when the distances are just right, that you can take an objective off 5 marines??



I'd argue rerolls 1 is amazing. Couple that with a normal lord and your rocking the same backfield castle that any marine list is only your not paying for a captain. I could see 2-3 DDA and or HD and a lord from a Nihilak spearhead being well worth it in fact.


There's no comparison with our castles. Marines are running those with Devastators or Hellblasters. Our equivalents to those are Destroyers, which already reroll 1s. Immortals of either variety are not putting out the same damage as Imperial Gunlines even with Nihilakh and Lords. So really it's only to buff DDArks, which is nice... but not imo worth taking a whole detachment for.


I play with and against those armies, your giving them too much credit. Hell blasters are OK, it's in DA that they shine and they are using Az, a Banner, Lieutenant, Dark shroud and CP's so again, not even remotely a fair comparison. A DDA is comparable to a predator annihilator, it's random shots are mitigated as soon as you take more then 1. Only it's basically imune to the return AT thanks to QS. Plasma is a good counter, but they are not going to be getting into good range.


Nobody is bringing Predator Annihilators, though. DDArks are good, but I don't know if Nihilakh DDArks are good enough to bring a whole detachment around. Either you have to bring 3 + a semi-wasted HQ (which imo is too many, though some people love 3 Arks), or two in a Patrol (but you don't want to do that since it gives no CP).

I say semi-wasted HQ since none of ours affect vehicles, and the Auras for a Nihilak HQ won't affect any other Dynasty. So I guess you could bring a Cloaktek to repair the Arks or stick Szeras in there since he's Dynasty-less, but otherwise they're not doing much for your list. I guess you could just take a CCB, since it's an alright beatstick even without using Wave of Command.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:54:33


Post by: Red Corsair


The more I look at it, I think the DDA is pretty amazing actually. Just take 2 to mitigate the randomness. 2 is close to the price of 7 HD, so your rocking the same shots only your way more durable and you get the Gauss flayers which I think cannot be ignored. Your basically getting 10 free warriors on a M14" platform when you want the small arms.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Requizen wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
Requizen wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
I mean yeah you could forgoe a guaranteed cap vs hope to get a charge off.

Yea I'm reaching, but its objectively better than the nephrekh, nihilakh is trash. Mephrit is okay for the round of shooting you get before you get hugged and cant shoot anymore, Novokh is good if you want to run CC cron's, but we aren't a CC army, and its not a CC meta so your gimping yourself if you run that dynasty.....

Sautekh has the best warlord trait, amazing relic and stratagem. The code benefit is just the cherry on top. Its not amazing, but it gives you options, and doesn't remove your firepower for getting that extra movement most cron armies struggle to have (what with the ol terribly slow infantry)


Hang on, when you say objectively better do you mean the code or the Dynasty as a whole? If it's the whole package then there is an argument to be made (but your use of the term objectively is objectively wrong). If you mean just the code then I can't even fathom why you would think that.

You say Nihilak is trash. DDAs will get reroll 1's to hit every turn with them- not amazing but it's something, it WILL happen. By comparison if you use gauss TBs in a Sautekh list then there is a very specific situation, when the distances are just right, that you can take an objective off 5 marines??



I'd argue rerolls 1 is amazing. Couple that with a normal lord and your rocking the same backfield castle that any marine list is only your not paying for a captain. I could see 2-3 DDA and or HD and a lord from a Nihilak spearhead being well worth it in fact.


There's no comparison with our castles. Marines are running those with Devastators or Hellblasters. Our equivalents to those are Destroyers, which already reroll 1s. Immortals of either variety are not putting out the same damage as Imperial Gunlines even with Nihilakh and Lords. So really it's only to buff DDArks, which is nice... but not imo worth taking a whole detachment for.


I play with and against those armies, your giving them too much credit. Hell blasters are OK, it's in DA that they shine and they are using Az, a Banner, Lieutenant, Dark shroud and CP's so again, not even remotely a fair comparison. A DDA is comparable to a predator annihilator, it's random shots are mitigated as soon as you take more then 1. Only it's basically imune to the return AT thanks to QS. Plasma is a good counter, but they are not going to be getting into good range.


Nobody is bringing Predator Annihilators, though. DDArks are good, but I don't know if Nihilakh DDArks are good enough to bring a whole detachment around. Either you have to bring 3 + a semi-wasted HQ (which imo is too many, though some people love 3 Arks), or two in a Patrol (but you don't want to do that since it gives no CP).

I say semi-wasted HQ since none of ours affect vehicles, and the Auras for a Nihilak HQ won't affect any other Dynasty. So I guess you could bring a Cloaktek to repair the Arks or stick Szeras in there since he's Dynasty-less, but otherwise they're not doing much for your list. I guess you could just take a CCB, since it's an alright beatstick even without using Wave of Command.


Cloaktek plus the QS strat makes them a target nobody will bother with more then once. People only stopped taking annihilators because they lack and durability to other AT. If you go first they are amazing, go second and you lose them. It's crazy how much more durable a DDA is then a predator. 3 more wounds, regens and ignores most AT damage you are concerned with, plus it range bands the 2 damage weapons that would hurt it. You also have a strat to keep firing on full power in a pinch.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:58:41


Post by: changemod


 necrontyrOG wrote:
Any thoughts on a Mephrit D. Lord with the Voltaic Staff and the Mephrit Warlord trait? Seems like a nice fit for a Destroyer Cult HQ. 6" Shorter range Gauss Cannon basically that can snipe characters and put out the occasional Mortal Wound.


I think in a destroyer cult theme list that's going to be a good setup for either a destroyer Lord or a cloak Cryptek, yes.

Speaking of which, assuming 2000 point destroyer cult list, what's a good ratio of regular to heavies? I can see an issue of wanting to balance between smaller units for command point purposes and larger units for reanimation and extermination protocols.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 16:59:33


Post by: Dionysodorus


Yes, I love the DDA. I'm trying to sort out when it makes sense to deploy them aggressively, and maybe even move them forwards turn 1, vs way back. I feel like they really shine when you can also leverage the flayers, since they shoot like 120 points of Warriors and even the low power gun is a steal for 70 points, but of course that's hard to justify if there's some big juicy tank to shoot at or lots of mid-range 2 damage weaponry around.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 17:04:37


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


Dionysodorus wrote:
Yes, I love the DDA. I'm trying to sort out when it makes sense to deploy them aggressively, and maybe even move them forwards turn 1, vs way back. I feel like they really shine when you can also leverage the flayers, since they shoot like 120 points of Warriors and even the low power gun is a steal for 70 points, but of course that's hard to justify if there's some big juicy tank to shoot at or lots of mid-range 2 damage weaponry around.


My first game of 8th was against orks. My opponents face was a picture when, after vaporizing 2 battle wagons, the DDAs jumped forward and started hosing down the boyz with rapid fire.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 17:05:52


Post by: Red Corsair


Dionysodorus wrote:
Yes, I love the DDA. I'm trying to sort out when it makes sense to deploy them aggressively, and maybe even move them forwards turn 1, vs way back. I feel like they really shine when you can also leverage the flayers, since they shoot like 120 points of Warriors and even the low power gun is a steal for 70 points, but of course that's hard to justify if there's some big juicy tank to shoot at or lots of mid-range 2 damage weaponry around.


Thats a good point, it makes the ghost arch look that much worse as well. That said, with a 14" move, I'd still back line them to start. Odds are T2 is a good opportunity to start moving them up aggressively. Heck, with fly you can always charge into a target as well and not worry much about next turns fire. Sauhtek might make a better aggressive DDA. If your taking a Stalker you definitely want sautek on the DDA.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 17:16:06


Post by: Drakmord


How does the math on Mephrit's 1cp stratagem work out? With it active, a single Carbine Immortal can make a maximum of 12 hits -- 2 base, plus 2 for both being 6's, and then 8 tesla procs -- but is the average any good?

It's 1 CP compared to Sautekh's 2, and I'm wondering which is the more reliable on paper. Sautekh affects more than a single unit so long as they fire on the same target, which is great, but once I see the math on TfA it will finally get out of my head.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 17:18:32


Post by: Dionysodorus


Drakmord wrote:
How does the math on Mephrit's 1cp stratagem work out? With it active, a single Carbine Immortal can make a maximum of 12 hits -- 2 base, plus 2 for both being 6's, and then 8 tesla procs -- but is the average any good?

It's 1 CP compared to Sautekh's 2, and I'm wondering which is the more reliable on paper.

It's basically the same as re-rolling 1s. 1 in 6 of your hit rolls generate a new hit roll. It's just that it triggers on rolls that themselves generate hits rather than rolls that missed, so it's a bit more feast-or-famine. So it just improves your average output by a factor of 7/6.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 17:21:03


Post by: Drakmord


Dionysodorus wrote:
Drakmord wrote:
How does the math on Mephrit's 1cp stratagem work out? With it active, a single Carbine Immortal can make a maximum of 12 hits -- 2 base, plus 2 for both being 6's, and then 8 tesla procs -- but is the average any good?

It's 1 CP compared to Sautekh's 2, and I'm wondering which is the more reliable on paper.

It's basically the same as re-rolling 1s. 1 in 6 of your hit rolls generate a new hit roll. It's just that it triggers on rolls that themselves generate hits rather than rolls that missed, so it's a bit more feast-or-famine. So it just improves your average output by a factor of 7/6.


Thank you!


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 17:28:15


Post by: Necronplayer


"If your army is led by a Necrons Warlord, then before the battle you may give one of the following Artefacts of the Aeons to a Necrons character"

I originally read that as the artefact has to go to your warlord. Hope anyone else didn't make that mistake!


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 18:08:35


Post by: iGuy91


 Red Corsair wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote:
Yes, I love the DDA. I'm trying to sort out when it makes sense to deploy them aggressively, and maybe even move them forwards turn 1, vs way back. I feel like they really shine when you can also leverage the flayers, since they shoot like 120 points of Warriors and even the low power gun is a steal for 70 points, but of course that's hard to justify if there's some big juicy tank to shoot at or lots of mid-range 2 damage weaponry around.


Thats a good point, it makes the ghost arch look that much worse as well. That said, with a 14" move, I'd still back line them to start. Odds are T2 is a good opportunity to start moving them up aggressively. Heck, with fly you can always charge into a target as well and not worry much about next turns fire. Sauhtek might make a better aggressive DDA. If your taking a Stalker you definitely want sautek on the DDA.



Well, I guess there is no reason to run heavy destroyers anymore then.
Guess I should buy ghost arks...but god do I hate assembling DDAs and ghost arks


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 18:15:54


Post by: Fenris-77


So, two Vaults and two shards nets you all the powers twice each, using 8 a turn. and with room to stick the two pairs of crap powers into slots where they won't be used (one on each model). I have no idea how to cram that into a list though.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 18:37:30


Post by: Grimgold


Am I reading this right, you can use entropic strike on the nightbringer? So he could roll up and delete Robby G, or get a good chunk out of mortarion/skarbrand/magnus?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 18:38:59


Post by: Requizen


 Grimgold wrote:
Am I reading this right, you can use entropic strike on the nightbringer? So he could roll up and delete Robby G, or get a good chunk out of mortarion/skarbrand/magnus?


Yes it works on him, but the Start only affects the first Attack, not all of them. So he can take at most 6 wounds out of Guilliman. Though coupled with a Power and his Gaze, it could be more.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 18:49:24


Post by: Lothmar


 Fenris-77 wrote:
So, two Vaults and two shards nets you all the powers twice each, using 8 a turn. and with room to stick the two pairs of crap powers into slots where they won't be used (one on each model). I have no idea how to cram that into a list though.


Well you could do two Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachments for 0 cp but you wont need leadership at least.
If you can fit in one more Heavy and a HQ you could make a spearhead for 1cp...
Alternatively if you leave out the two solo shards and instead buy a third TV then you could run a Super heavy detachment for 3 CP.

If you were looking for a repair crew for your 3TVs you could run a Supreme command detachment with 3x+ (if you're running at least 6 then might as well do SC twice for extra CP and slots) cloak crypteks so they can fly and keep up. Though not sure what you could screen them with other then maybe the Tv's themselves in a akward formation.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 19:05:56


Post by: Grimgold


So trying out a basic list, no real gimmicks just solid units:

Spoiler:
HQ
CCB
+Gauss Cannon
+Warscythe
+Resutrection Orb
+Lighting Field

Lord
+Warscythe
+Veil of darkness

Troops
12 x Warriors

10 x Immortals
+Gauss Blasters

12 x warriors

Elites
10 x Lychguard
+Dispersion Shields
+Hyperphase Swords

Fast Attack
6 x Destroyers
+Gauss Cannon

6 x Wraiths
+5 Particle beamers

7 x Scarabs

Heavy Support
3 x Heavy Destroyers
+ Heavy Gauss Cannon


3 different angles of attack, you have the destroyers who hang back and shoot, the scarabs/wraiths who are supported by the Lord with the VoD/Lychguard and Finally the warriors/immortals who advance to mid field to claim objectives and provide fire support. The overlord hangs with the destroyers if I'm worried about them getting assaulted, or goes with the Wraiths to charge up mid field. Lord doesn't need an invul save so long as he is close to the lychguard, and a 4++ on a vehicle with quantum shielding should be good for a chuckle. Pretty dynasty independent, but I'm between mephrit to give the warriors and immortals more punch, or sautekh for hyperlogical strategist and better mobility while shooting.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 19:24:57


Post by: Pyrothem


So after combing through the leaks am I correct in seeing there is nothing but a warlord trait that helps against psychic BS? Nothing? That stuff about necron tech to be used against chaos and the warp is just fluff crap?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 19:39:02


Post by: Drakmord


Pyrothem wrote:
So after combing through the leaks am I correct in seeing there is nothing but a warlord trait that helps against psychic BS? Nothing? That stuff about necron tech to be used against chaos and the warp is just fluff crap?


Aside from gloom prisms on Spyders and the big FW Canoptek units, that is unfortunately it. Maybe we'll get lucky and GW will do a run of Pariahs with the codex launch in the way they did Bonesingers for Eldar.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 20:13:20


Post by: Lothmar


@pyro -

Maybe there might be something in the box set since they mentioned blackstone or something as a material that might be warp resistant etc.

Then again it could just be more lore fluff etc for us and GW ends up giving access to it to AM and therefor the imperium.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 20:21:15


Post by: ArtyomTrityak


So what about deploying 2x20 warriors and 6 destroyers in DS reserve (-3CP). 3rd unit of 20 warriors is with cryptek (with vail). Turn 1 we teleport 3x20 immune to morale warriors + 6 Destroyers to the opponent face.

So it is 120 S4 AP-1 shots + 18 S6 AP-3 (rerolling hits and wounds).

The rest of army is variable - we can use 3xDDA with Lord or TB or wraith charging forward.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 20:39:26


Post by: Azuza001


 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
So what about deploying 2x20 warriors and 6 destroyers in DS reserve (-3CP). 3rd unit of 20 warriors is with cryptek (with vail). Turn 1 we teleport 3x20 immune to morale warriors + 6 Destroyers to the opponent face.

So it is 120 S4 AP-1 shots + 18 S6 AP-3 (rerolling hits and wounds).

The rest of army is variable - we can use 3xDDA with Lord or TB or wraith charging forward.


That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking, except I plan on running a deceiver as well for the tactical flexibility as well as a shard of the Ctan. I am starting to like the idea of the doomsday arks though. Thinking 2 of them and 1 ghost ark and scarabs for long range fire Support, with the ghost ark moving up to help the warriors after they deploy.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 20:41:22


Post by: Grimgold


 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
So what about deploying 2x20 warriors and 6 destroyers in DS reserve (-3CP). 3rd unit of 20 warriors is with cryptek (with vail). Turn 1 we teleport 3x20 immune to morale warriors + 6 Destroyers to the opponent face.

So it is 120 S4 AP-1 shots + 18 S6 AP-3 (rerolling hits and wounds).

The rest of army is variable - we can use 3xDDA with Lord or TB or wraith charging forward.


To easy to zone an army like this with scouts and the like. 3 units of scouts and an army setup in denied flank could make you footslog halfway across the map.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 20:47:12


Post by: Lothmar


For doomsday ark, would deploying it through deciever or other TP shenanigans count as 'not moving the previous turn' for the purpose of the high powered cannon?

*Ports it in so it can also broadside its flayers at enemy line*



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 20:48:50


Post by: Requizen


Lothmar wrote:
For doomsday ark, would deploying it through deciever or other TP shenanigans count as 'not moving the previous turn' for the purpose of the high powered cannon?

*Ports it in so it can also broadside its flayers at enemy line*



Any form of Reserve (Nihilakh Deep Strike) counts as having moved. Deceiver does not.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 20:54:21


Post by: Dionysodorus


Ultimately, Warriors just don't provide that much firepower, nor are they that durable. You've got to remember that this is a meta where you have to be able to handle 100 Guardsmen or Fire Warriors or whatever.

The big issues with trying to drop a million Warriors on someone turn 1:

1) You're only in rapid fire range of their screens. So you don't really get much of an alpha strike. If your squads are all staying in range of 1 HQ, then you're likely also killing yourself out of RF range with the later squads.

2) You're now in range of everything they've got, and their infantry outshoots yours. Warriors only barely outshoot frickin' tactical marines. Guardsmen just crush them.

3) They can take a trash unit and tie up 240 points of Warriors for a turn since you have no way to get them out of CC and still shoot.

I feel like there may be room to drop a single squad of Warriors alongside the Destroyers just to keep people away from them a little better, but you almost certainly want a dude with Veil close by to keep them shooting next turn.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 21:06:13


Post by: BlueBeetle


I agree with Dionys. Mass Mortars and Guards infantry will outshoot anything we drop infant of them. I think yeah its cool to deep strike in there face but from a competitive standpoint we shouldn't. The better players will be ready for it and we will give them a good amount of points for it. Plus usually they will have screens like said above and on there turn they drop something scarier and then we are overwhelmed. The blood angel guard list or space wolves guard list would chew through any of our deep strike shenanigans we should probably focus on a more competitive standpoint. I have been playing Raven Guard this edition and although Strike from the Shadows is awesome with aggressors and some hell blasters, it only works against new players. A good player will get so many points from it and you're better off not doing it.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 21:28:15


Post by: Doctoralex


Bah, Silver Tide is my fav strategy though....shame that, even with the auto-pass morale WL and stuff like great Dynasty Traits, Warriors are still one of our weakest units...


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 21:34:50


Post by: Lothmar


Ima pop this up again since I didn't see an answer any of the previous pages I asked.



Does the abysall staffs effect still work on low leadership model hordes that get artificial leadership like Nids / Orks?

…Since the 'Phaerons will' strategy is use a characters MWBD ability for a second time in a turn, does that mean Imotekhs version that lets him MWBD 2 squads in a turn would let him MWBD 4 units if this was used? Or would he only get one extra use of mwbd for a total of 3 if the ability just lets him use the mwbd ability a second time?

Is the orb of eternity just a +1 rez orb, or is it Use the +1 effect once per battle and then it is still a rez orb so you can use that effect after?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 21:36:55


Post by: ArtyomTrityak


Grimgold wrote:
To easy to zone an army like this with scouts and the like. 3 units of scouts and an army setup in denied flank could make you footslog halfway across the map.


Yeah, i was thinking about this too. Eventually you do not have to do this, if your opponent has scouts you can deploy them as usual.

Dionysodorus wrote:Ultimately, Warriors just don't provide that much firepower, nor are they that durable. You've got to remember that this is a meta where you have to be able to handle 100 Guardsmen or Fire Warriors or whatever.

The big issues with trying to drop a million Warriors on someone turn 1:

1) You're only in rapid fire range of their screens. So you don't really get much of an alpha strike. If your squads are all staying in range of 1 HQ, then you're likely also killing yourself out of RF range with the later squads.

2) You're now in range of everything they've got, and their infantry outshoots yours. Warriors only barely outshoot frickin' tactical marines. Guardsmen just crush them.

3) They can take a trash unit and tie up 240 points of Warriors for a turn since you have no way to get them out of CC and still shoot.

I feel like there may be room to drop a single squad of Warriors alongside the Destroyers just to keep people away from them a little better, but you almost certainly want a dude with Veil close by to keep them shooting next turn.


What other options we have? Let's imagine we need to kill 100 guardsmen. I barely see who can kill them but warriors... 3x10 Tesla immortals? With AP0 i think it might be more saves than AP-1 for warriors.
It looks like our codex is going to be below average. But i like Necrons so i'm trying to find any valid strategy to not loose every game.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 21:59:27


Post by: Azuza001


2 squads of 20 warriors at 12" with a 5++ invulnerable to shooting and 2 4+ rp with auto pass moral is vulnerable? Considering they get to shoot first (dynasty not a part of equation) they are doing 80 shots, plus the ghost ark's shots, plus whatever other weapons you have shooting. 1st Turn won't matter much, if your opponent has you so you can't deploy well then wait a turn and work on making a hole.

Let's assume for this conversation that the units did get to deploy at double tap range but only has chaff to shoot at. That's still a lot of firepower to just shrug off. You should be able to kill around 30 guardsmen, so 3 normal squads. Give or take a few, may have a couple still floating around after from the squad, but they will probably run away after that. That still leaves a big hole. And it's not like your DDA's are sitting there waiting around to do nothing, they will be unloading into enemy tanks / big targets.

I am not saying there isn't more "effective" options or if there is a different way to do it or not, I just see this and think that's a pretty effective setup, those warriors are going to be very hard to deal with at range. And up close I plan to have a c'tan shard there for counter assault. If I get lucky with deceiver and his redeploy roll I can save the veil as a way to pull a squad out if it get charged and keep it within double tap range. The list has tactical options.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 22:02:03


Post by: BlueBeetle


Do you even guard. 30 guardsmen is nothing :/


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 22:06:39


Post by: Lothmar


Art -


Well for hordes that are composed of lots of small squads but in tight formations you could try Amalgamated Targeting Data with 3 doomscythes. Even if you're giving up your Deathbeams that turn you've still got your tesla to follow up with as well.

The enemy would need a fairly large unit for it to make sense, however a sautekh leader firing their weapon first could be a good proc for 'Methodical destruction' for your warriors who will be lobbing in 40 something shots if they're away from a MWBD source. Heck if you've got immortals with tesla and mwbd thats 2 extra per 4+ and vehicle tesla at 5+ which isn't half bad if its T-shirts.

A 10 man group of Lychguard sword and boarding it up in the enemies grill can be an annoying soak, especially if you give them Dispersion Field Amplification and deal a few wounds in return to them regardless of distance. If they're smart they may stop shooting and take different targets and then try to melee you though.

It'll probably only get one turn, but a 20 man line of Flayed ones can pump out a decent amount of damage. If you stretch them out you can probably multi wrap 2 maybe 3+ groups depending on the size (though expect to take some losses the more units you try to wrap). However if it's one giant group then these flayed ones can put in some real hurt with a second fight phase thanks to Blood Rites and are all the deadlier if you somehow managed to get some buffing characters up there as well (ghost ark of leadership?). Hmm, unfortunately Imotekhs ability is Sautekh flayed ones so that's one potential buff down.






Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 22:08:14


Post by: Grimgold


GEQ is a real hole in our line up, none of our units are particularly good at killing guardsmen. However we have units that are good at getting around screens.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 22:09:40


Post by: Azuza001


 BlueBeetle wrote:
Do you even guard. 30 guardsmen is nothing :/


So what would you do to deal with guardsmen?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 22:13:17


Post by: BlueBeetle


Thats the problem. As someone who plays 100 of them with Ravenguard I am terrified of them because I know what they can do. So many shots Ive shredded through Mortys with ease. Looking through the codex I really dont know and I am trying to find a way right now with the shop owner as we look through the codex. Will update on ideas.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 22:19:16


Post by: Drakmord


We should explore this more thoroughly than just assuming a GEQ statline needs to be destroyed -- what is a common GEQ unit composition that one can expect to see, with enough regularity that a unit/units dedicated to dealing with them should be in a list? They will have the rest of their army backing them up as will we, so rather than "how to kill guardsmen," how do we defeat GEQ lists?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 22:21:00


Post by: Dionysodorus


 ArtyomTrityak wrote:

What other options we have? Let's imagine we need to kill 100 guardsmen. I barely see who can kill them but warriors... 3x10 Tesla immortals? With AP0 i think it might be more saves than AP-1 for warriors.
It looks like our codex is going to be below average. But i like Necrons so i'm trying to find any valid strategy to not loose every game.

Oh, ha -- to be clear I meant that Warriors aren't actually hard to deal with because other armies are going to be ready to deal with 100 small bodies, and the same tools are going to be able to deal with the Warriors.

But no, I think Necrons still have no good way to deal with lots and lots of Guardsmen, even more than most factions. But the problem isn't really gauss flayers; even if you're forced to pay for unnecessary AP they're still the most efficient gun for the job in the codex. That's part of why I'm enthusiastic about DDAs -- it's not that Warriors are terrible at killing Guardsmen, but that Guardsmen are really good at killing Warriors. A rapid-firing Warrior kills 25% of its points in Guardsmen while a rapid-firing Guardsman kills 50% of its points in Warriors (and that's without FRFSRF). DDAs are almost as good at killing Guardsmen and are significantly more resilient in the face of lasguns (though they're hardly immune). I think the key is not taking anything that's actively terrible against Guardsmen. You might not beat an all-out infantry horde but lots of Tesla and DDAs will hold up pretty well against most of what you're likely to run into.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 22:23:09


Post by: BlueBeetle


Drakmord wrote:
We should explore this more thoroughly than just assuming a GEQ statline needs to be destroyed -- what is a common GEQ unit composition that one can expect to see, with enough regularity that a unit/units dedicated to dealing with them should be in a list? They will have the rest of their army backing them up as will we, so rather than "how to kill guardsmen," how do we defeat GEQ lists?


Good idea, its just worrisome because in this edition and in my other list, a lot of people are running IG for the easy Brigade 9CP which gives tons of guardsmen and mortar fire. Its a go to ally right now. But you're right lets brainstorm!


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 22:34:10


Post by: Dionysodorus


Drakmord wrote:
We should explore this more thoroughly than just assuming a GEQ statline needs to be destroyed -- what is a common GEQ unit composition that one can expect to see, with enough regularity that a unit/units dedicated to dealing with them should be in a list? They will have the rest of their army backing them up as will we, so rather than "how to kill guardsmen," how do we defeat GEQ lists?

I think this is going to be hugely meta-dependent. More so than most things. You don't really see mass infantry at ITC, but that may be due to weird things like time limits on games -- an infantry horde is going to win by eventually dominating the board, but they won't necessarily table you or be ahead on objectives at the end of turn 2 or 3, and they take forever to play. But I've had great success with all-infantry Guard lists in competitive games using ITC rules without time limits.

So there's maybe an ITC tournament style Imperial soup list that brings up to 100 Guardsmen, but then 1600 points of bigger stuff. The Guardsmen will be mostly naked, maybe with mortars. The rest of the list is probably a little bit of the other OP Guard stuff like mortars, and then something like Blood Angels or whatever the Imperial fotm is. I think you can hope to deal with this, though it's also going to have some pretty terrifying stuff in it besides the Guardsmen.

While you can put together solid lists with a lot more infantry than this -- maybe bringing Elysians as well to deep strike lasguns -- you're probably not going to run into these either casually or at time-limited tournaments. But if you're in a competitive local group you may have some crazy person with enough models to do it.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 22:40:33


Post by: ArtyomTrityak


So DDA, TB, Destroyers are our best options so far?

We can Run like Lord + 3xDDA, 2x6 Destroyers, 2x9 TB, CCB character sniper.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 22:42:00


Post by: BlueBeetle


Dionysodorus wrote:
Drakmord wrote:
We should explore this more thoroughly than just assuming a GEQ statline needs to be destroyed -- what is a common GEQ unit composition that one can expect to see, with enough regularity that a unit/units dedicated to dealing with them should be in a list? They will have the rest of their army backing them up as will we, so rather than "how to kill guardsmen," how do we defeat GEQ lists?

I think this is going to be hugely meta-dependent. More so than most things. You don't really see mass infantry at ITC, but that may be due to weird things like time limits on games -- an infantry horde is going to win by eventually dominating the board, but they won't necessarily table you or be ahead on objectives at the end of turn 2 or 3, and they take forever to play. But I've had great success with all-infantry Guard lists in competitive games using ITC rules without time limits.

So there's maybe an ITC tournament style Imperial soup list that brings up to 100 Guardsmen, but then 1600 points of bigger stuff. The Guardsmen will be mostly naked, maybe with mortars. The rest of the list is probably a little bit of the other OP Guard stuff like mortars, and then something like Blood Angels or whatever the Imperial fotm is. I think you can hope to deal with this, though it's also going to have some pretty terrifying stuff in it besides the Guardsmen.

While you can put together solid lists with a lot more infantry than this -- maybe bringing Elysians as well to deep strike lasguns -- you're probably not going to run into these either casually or at time-limited tournaments. But if you're in a competitive local group you may have some crazy person with enough models to do it.


At LVO there was so many ?? All the space marine list were Imperial allies with mass infantry or mortars . Blood angels, Drake Angels, Space wolves you name it they all had the soup with them. Its all I see at my shop :(


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 22:48:38


Post by: vipoid


How does this look:

Spoiler:
Battalion:
Cryptek w/ Canoptek Cloak - 85
Overlord w/ Warscythe
10 Immortals w/ Tesla - 170
10 Immortals w/ Gauss - 170
10 Immortals w/ Gauss - 170
10 Immortals w/ Gauss - 170

Outrider:
Destroyer Lord w/ Warscythe, Phylactery (Nanoscarab Casket) - 131
3 Destroyers + Heavy Destroyer - 207
3 Destroyers + Heavy Destroyer - 207
7 Scarabs - 91

1496pts (7CP)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 22:57:06


Post by: ArtyomTrityak


 vipoid wrote:
How does this look:

Spoiler:
Battalion:
Cryptek w/ Canoptek Cloak - 85
Overlord w/ Warscythe
10 Immortals w/ Tesla - 170
10 Immortals w/ Gauss - 170
10 Immortals w/ Gauss - 170
10 Immortals w/ Gauss - 170

Outrider:
Destroyer Lord w/ Warscythe, Phylactery (Nanoscarab Casket) - 131
3 Destroyers + Heavy Destroyer - 207
3 Destroyers + Heavy Destroyer - 207
7 Scarabs - 91

1496pts (7CP)


1 unit of 6 destroyers will be better because of stratagem. Too many immortals, heavy destroyers do not worth it.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 22:59:54


Post by: Klowny


Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
I mean yeah you could forgoe a guaranteed cap vs hope to get a charge off.

Yea I'm reaching, but its objectively better than the nephrekh, nihilakh is trash. Mephrit is okay for the round of shooting you get before you get hugged and cant shoot anymore, Novokh is good if you want to run CC cron's, but we aren't a CC army, and its not a CC meta so your gimping yourself if you run that dynasty.....

Sautekh has the best warlord trait, amazing relic and stratagem. The code benefit is just the cherry on top. Its not amazing, but it gives you options, and doesn't remove your firepower for getting that extra movement most cron armies struggle to have (what with the ol terribly slow infantry)


Hang on, when you say objectively better do you mean the code or the Dynasty as a whole? If it's the whole package then there is an argument to be made (but your use of the term objectively is objectively wrong). If you mean just the code then I can't even fathom why you would think that.

You say Nihilak is trash. DDAs will get reroll 1's to hit every turn with them- not amazing but it's something, it WILL happen. By comparison if you use gauss TBs in a Sautekh list then there is a very specific situation, when the distances are just right, that you can take an objective off 5 marines??



Objectively better yes, if you advance 6" thats nice, but most weapons on most units/vehicles cannot shoot. Sautekh still allows them to shoot while getting 3.5"M, sacrificing 2.5" while getting alot more firepower. And yes, the dynasty on a whole is head and shoulders above the rest. The code benefits is probably the worst part of it and its still very handy and versatile

Red Corsair wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
I mean yeah you could forgoe a guaranteed cap vs hope to get a charge off.

Yea I'm reaching, but its objectively better than the nephrekh, nihilakh is trash. Mephrit is okay for the round of shooting you get before you get hugged and cant shoot anymore, Novokh is good if you want to run CC cron's, but we aren't a CC army, and its not a CC meta so your gimping yourself if you run that dynasty.....

Sautekh has the best warlord trait, amazing relic and stratagem. The code benefit is just the cherry on top. Its not amazing, but it gives you options, and doesn't remove your firepower for getting that extra movement most cron armies struggle to have (what with the ol terribly slow infantry)


Hang on, when you say objectively better do you mean the code or the Dynasty as a whole? If it's the whole package then there is an argument to be made (but your use of the term objectively is objectively wrong). If you mean just the code then I can't even fathom why you would think that.

You say Nihilak is trash. DDAs will get reroll 1's to hit every turn with them- not amazing but it's something, it WILL happen. By comparison if you use gauss TBs in a Sautekh list then there is a very specific situation, when the distances are just right, that you can take an objective off 5 marines??




I'd argue rerolls 1 is amazing. Couple that with a normal lord and your rocking the same backfield castle that any marine list is only your not paying for a captain. I could see 2-3 DDA and or HD and a lord from a Nihilak spearhead being well worth it in fact.



Nihilakh as a whole is trash, crappy W/L trait, crappy strat and the dynasty code really buffs...... DDA and nothing else as the rest of hte army moves. So yeah, Nihilakh is trash.

Requizen wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
I mean yeah you could forgoe a guaranteed cap vs hope to get a charge off.

Yea I'm reaching, but its objectively better than the nephrekh, nihilakh is trash. Mephrit is okay for the round of shooting you get before you get hugged and cant shoot anymore, Novokh is good if you want to run CC cron's, but we aren't a CC army, and its not a CC meta so your gimping yourself if you run that dynasty.....

Sautekh has the best warlord trait, amazing relic and stratagem. The code benefit is just the cherry on top. Its not amazing, but it gives you options, and doesn't remove your firepower for getting that extra movement most cron armies struggle to have (what with the ol terribly slow infantry)


Hang on, when you say objectively better do you mean the code or the Dynasty as a whole? If it's the whole package then there is an argument to be made (but your use of the term objectively is objectively wrong). If you mean just the code then I can't even fathom why you would think that.

You say Nihilak is trash. DDAs will get reroll 1's to hit every turn with them- not amazing but it's something, it WILL happen. By comparison if you use gauss TBs in a Sautekh list then there is a very specific situation, when the distances are just right, that you can take an objective off 5 marines??



I'd argue rerolls 1 is amazing. Couple that with a normal lord and your rocking the same backfield castle that any marine list is only your not paying for a captain. I could see 2-3 DDA and or HD and a lord from a Nihilak spearhead being well worth it in fact.


There's no comparison with our castles. Marines are running those with Devastators or Hellblasters. Our equivalents to those are Destroyers, which already reroll 1s. Immortals of either variety are not putting out the same damage as Imperial Gunlines even with Nihilakh and Lords. So really it's only to buff DDArks, which is nice... but not imo worth taking a whole detachment for.


Agreed.

Grimgold wrote:GEQ is a real hole in our line up, none of our units are particularly good at killing guardsmen. However we have units that are good at getting around screens.


Grim im really struggling to see your point on GEQ, you know we have MWBD immortals.... with sautekh they average 37 hits out of 20 without rr'ing 1's.... thats from 10 guys.

TB in RF range will mince a squad, you wont be seeing conscripts anymore. Sure cultist bombs can be a pain, but again, shoot a stalker at one, kill one with a sautekh unit, then shoot 74 tesla shots from 20 immortals with MWBD at them. Bye bye cultists.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 23:00:18


Post by: Fentlegen


 vipoid wrote:
How does this look:

Spoiler:
Battalion:
Cryptek w/ Canoptek Cloak - 85
Overlord w/ Warscythe
10 Immortals w/ Tesla - 170
10 Immortals w/ Gauss - 170
10 Immortals w/ Gauss - 170
10 Immortals w/ Gauss - 170

Outrider:
Destroyer Lord w/ Warscythe, Phylactery (Nanoscarab Casket) - 131
3 Destroyers + Heavy Destroyer - 207
3 Destroyers + Heavy Destroyer - 207
7 Scarabs - 91

1496pts (7CP)


Not sure if you are trying to combo the Cloak and Casket but if you are they don't stack. Both alter Living Metal to be D3 so you just replace 1 wound with D3 the replace that D3 with D3.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 23:01:06


Post by: hvg3akaek


How does the new DDA work with Sautekh code?

No move: can fire DDC on high power.
Move: cannot fire DDC on high, but can fire DDC on low with no penalty.
Advance: can fire DDC on high or low power with -1 (as it changes to assault).

That sounds a bit strange, in that you can fire DDC / high better when advancing than when just moving?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 23:11:15


Post by: Da W


Drakmord wrote:
We should explore this more thoroughly than just assuming a GEQ statline needs to be destroyed -- what is a common GEQ unit composition that one can expect to see, with enough regularity that a unit/units dedicated to dealing with them should be in a list? They will have the rest of their army backing them up as will we, so rather than "how to kill guardsmen," how do we defeat GEQ lists?


I often used Arnakyr + orikan with a few warriors. People charging them are met with 2A and 5++ in close combat, surprise they didn't see coming. Most of the time warriors survive better in close combat than in ranged combat. And its a screen for your other firepower (DDA, monolith, destroyers, whatever) even if an expensive one.

I think the point of Necron is not to wash out the enemy, its to capture and control objectives and stay alive on it. We have ample new stuff in the codex to do that, but i haven't see anybody go that route so far.

Doomsday Arks: i used 3 of them for the past 6 month, and i'm happy to see them DOUBLED in effective power. But here's what to do with them: 1st round and may be 2nd, you snipe big stuff with it. But THEN you move ahead. 20 flyer shots is helpful, and S8 on the main gun is still good for most targets. Plus it's a big though screen to protect your weak troops.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 23:19:56


Post by: Dionysodorus


hvg3akaek wrote:
How does the new DDA work with Sautekh code?

No move: can fire DDC on high power.
Move: cannot fire DDC on high, but can fire DDC on low with no penalty.
Advance: can fire DDC on high or low power with -1 (as it changes to assault).

That sounds a bit strange, in that you can fire DDC / high better when advancing than when just moving?

No, the high power mode just has a special rule that says you can only fire it if you don't move. Sautekh doesn't get around this.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 23:20:04


Post by: vipoid


 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
1 unit of 6 destroyers will be better because of stratagem. Too many immortals, heavy destroyers do not worth it.


- 6 Destroyers means two fewer destroyers, though.

- Would you recommend dropping one unit of them, or should I not be using squads of 10 at all?

- What's wrong with Heavy Destroyers?


 Fentlegen wrote:
Not sure if you are trying to combo the Cloak and Casket but if you are they don't stack. Both alter Living Metal to be D3 so you just replace 1 wound with D3 the replace that D3 with D3.


No, I just like the Casket and wanted to try the Cloak.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/14 23:55:03


Post by: Grimgold


 Klowny wrote:


Grimgold wrote:GEQ is a real hole in our line up, none of our units are particularly good at killing guardsmen. However we have units that are good at getting around screens.


Grim im really struggling to see your point on GEQ, you know we have MWBD immortals.... with sautekh they average 37 hits out of 20 without rr'ing 1's.... thats from 10 guys.

TB in RF range will mince a squad, you wont be seeing conscripts anymore. Sure cultist bombs can be a pain, but again, shoot a stalker at one, kill one with a sautekh unit, then shoot 74 tesla shots from 20 immortals with MWBD at them. Bye bye cultists.


The question is one of efficiency.

Taking your example, you have 170 points of immortals, backed up by 87 points of Overlord, and you are going to take on a hypothetical 120 point 30 man unit og GEQ.

20 x ((1/2 * 2/3 * 2/3) + (1/3 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 3)) = 20 * 2/3 = 13 dead guardsmen

Even under best case scenario, you are using 257 points to inflict 52 points of damage. If your lucky and your opponent isn't running MSU, you might get another 40 points in morale.That is less efficient than a group of immortals taking on a land raider.

Anything can be brute forced, you could use 120 immortals to kill a land raider, but consistently winning exchanges is about using your resources efficiently, and we do not have an efficient method for removing GEQ.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 01:50:09


Post by: Azuza001


Am I missing something on the math of GEQ vs Warriors with support from a ghost ark?

40 warriors with out having to worry about moral should have little issue with 70 guards shooting Las at them even if they all were in double tap range.

70 guard, 140 shots, 70 hits, I will say 90 hits off of rerolls or whatever. That's 90 hits, 30 wounds since it's str 3 vs t4, let's say 36 wounds because rolls suck. That's still a 3+ save for only a loss of 6 guys on a squad of 20 that has 2 chances at rp, and 0 moral because I am sorry, the wl trait for ignore moral and block a power is just great. That's 3 getting up, then say 1 because rolls. So 70 guardsmen killed 2 warriors? How is that not an effective option for killing GEQ? Now you get to kill 30 more.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 01:50:41


Post by: iGuy91


 Grimgold wrote:
 Klowny wrote:


Grimgold wrote:GEQ is a real hole in our line up, none of our units are particularly good at killing guardsmen. However we have units that are good at getting around screens.


Grim im really struggling to see your point on GEQ, you know we have MWBD immortals.... with sautekh they average 37 hits out of 20 without rr'ing 1's.... thats from 10 guys.

TB in RF range will mince a squad, you wont be seeing conscripts anymore. Sure cultist bombs can be a pain, but again, shoot a stalker at one, kill one with a sautekh unit, then shoot 74 tesla shots from 20 immortals with MWBD at them. Bye bye cultists.


The question is one of efficiency.

Taking your example, you have 170 points of immortals, backed up by 87 points of Overlord, and you are going to take on a hypothetical 120 point 30 man unit og GEQ.

20 x ((1/2 * 2/3 * 2/3) + (1/3 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 3)) = 20 * 2/3 = 13 dead guardsmen

Even under best case scenario, you are using 257 points to inflict 52 points of damage. If your lucky and your opponent isn't running MSU, you might get another 40 points in morale.That is less efficient than a group of immortals taking on a land raider.

Anything can be brute forced, you could use 120 immortals to kill a land raider, but consistently winning exchanges is about using your resources efficiently, and we do not have an efficient method for removing GEQ.



Maybe we are looking at this wrong. Could our answer be fighting guardsmen in melee with their pitiful stats and poor saves, rather than shooting them? I find it hard to accept that guardsmen are the end all of our bad matchups.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 01:56:42


Post by: Requizen


Flayed Ones straight up remove Guard from the table. Potentially Scarabs too, though the WS nerf hurt them. Getting to them, however, is the main problem. Flayed Ones still lack a serious delivery system, and Scarabs just die too quickly. Maybe multiple max 9 man Scarab units just booking it towards the enemy lines, especially with Nephrekh + Strat on one unit.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 02:10:33


Post by: bennyboy6189


How about a list focused on tanks where guardsmen arent a big deal.

2 crypteks
3x5 immortals
3 dda
2 tesseract vault

Not sure on code but sautek so dda can move out of combat and still shoot and for trait to get command points back. Vaults can deal with guardsmen while dda take on tanks.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 02:14:44


Post by: Drakmord


Do FO lack a delivery system? An Overlord with a Veil and the Conqueror WLT can buff their WS and charge dice, deep strike them within 10" of the enemy, and give them re-rolls to their charge.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 02:27:05


Post by: ArtyomTrityak


imho 17pts for 1W T4 4+ model with no shooting is too much.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 02:34:08


Post by: Pyrothem


I feel that the -1 to attack for just 3 points was a nerf for them unfortunately.

For attacks per point our scarab friends are it, with the strat to Advance and charge getting them into combat won't be so hard. The Novokh dynesty covers the 4WS problem nicely and if they run onto somthing hard just blow them up for a +2 smite.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 02:50:08


Post by: Red Corsair


 BlueBeetle wrote:
Dionysodorus wrote:
Drakmord wrote:
We should explore this more thoroughly than just assuming a GEQ statline needs to be destroyed -- what is a common GEQ unit composition that one can expect to see, with enough regularity that a unit/units dedicated to dealing with them should be in a list? They will have the rest of their army backing them up as will we, so rather than "how to kill guardsmen," how do we defeat GEQ lists?

I think this is going to be hugely meta-dependent. More so than most things. You don't really see mass infantry at ITC, but that may be due to weird things like time limits on games -- an infantry horde is going to win by eventually dominating the board, but they won't necessarily table you or be ahead on objectives at the end of turn 2 or 3, and they take forever to play. But I've had great success with all-infantry Guard lists in competitive games using ITC rules without time limits.

So there's maybe an ITC tournament style Imperial soup list that brings up to 100 Guardsmen, but then 1600 points of bigger stuff. The Guardsmen will be mostly naked, maybe with mortars. The rest of the list is probably a little bit of the other OP Guard stuff like mortars, and then something like Blood Angels or whatever the Imperial fotm is. I think you can hope to deal with this, though it's also going to have some pretty terrifying stuff in it besides the Guardsmen.

While you can put together solid lists with a lot more infantry than this -- maybe bringing Elysians as well to deep strike lasguns -- you're probably not going to run into these either casually or at time-limited tournaments. But if you're in a competitive local group you may have some crazy person with enough models to do it.


At LVO there was so many ?? All the space marine list were Imperial allies with mass infantry or mortars . Blood angels, Drake Angels, Space wolves you name it they all had the soup with them. Its all I see at my shop :(


Yea and one of them placed well. Other lists that did better focused on efficiency of damage output rather then sheer durability. Guardsmen are not that hard to remove in huge numbers. Heck my Iron warriors list cleared 144 demons in 3 turns at my last RTT. That was facing 5++ and 4++ units. Had they been guardsmen the numbers would make you dizzy.

I mean, we live in a world where 76 point quad heavy bolters exist. You generally see good players using 40 or 50 guardsmen just for screening and board control in the first turn with the rest of the points, and I mean every drop, put into efficiency of damage output.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Requizen wrote:
Flayed Ones straight up remove Guard from the table. Potentially Scarabs too, though the WS nerf hurt them. Getting to them, however, is the main problem. Flayed Ones still lack a serious delivery system, and Scarabs just die too quickly. Maybe multiple max 9 man Scarab units just booking it towards the enemy lines, especially with Nephrekh + Strat on one unit.


MWBD + Veil + the reroll charges WLT gives you a reliable way to get 20 FO into combat as discussed several pages back.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 03:04:06


Post by: Grimgold


To stop the guessing, the answer is our most efficient unit for getting rid of GEQ is tomb blades with particle beamers, that's because they are dirt cheap and and S6 wounds GEQ on 2s. Next would be Tesla Immortals. Scarabs are not a great option, but sadly still in the upper portion of our units for taking on GEQ.

Flayed ones are bad match against GEQ, they are expensive because they reroll failed wounds, but that matters less when you are wounding on three. In fact flayed ones are so bad that point for point a doom scythe is actually better at killing GEQ.

Of course GEQ is only part of the problem, a giant blob of boyz will be an issue for us as well, largely immune to morale, packing enough attacks to wipe multiple units a round, it's basically the only viable strat the orks have and it's not a bad one. Swarm of 30 boyz and da jump power are going to be a pain.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 03:33:40


Post by: Punisher


 Grimgold wrote:
To stop the guessing, the answer is our most efficient unit for getting rid of GEQ is tomb blades with particle beamers, that's because they are dirt cheap and and S6 wounds GEQ on 2s.
.


I thought this too but I ran the numbers and tesla TB are still better.

4 beamer TB = 3 tesla TB in points

4 beamers => 12shots => 8 hits => 6.66 wounds
3 tesla => 12shots => 12 hits => 8 wounds

So per point Tesla is still superior to the beamers against GEQ


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 03:37:36


Post by: BlueBeetle


 Grimgold wrote:
To stop the guessing, the answer is our most efficient unit for getting rid of GEQ is tomb blades with particle beamers, that's because they are dirt cheap and and S6 wounds GEQ on 2s. Next would be Tesla Immortals. Scarabs are not a great option, but sadly still in the upper portion of our units for taking on GEQ.

Flayed ones are bad match against GEQ, they are expensive because they reroll failed wounds, but that matters less when you are wounding on three. In fact flayed ones are so bad that point for point a doom scythe is actually better at killing GEQ.

Of course GEQ is only part of the problem, a giant blob of boyz will be an issue for us as well, largely immune to morale, packing enough attacks to wipe multiple units a round, it's basically the only viable strat the orks have and it's not a bad one. Swarm of 30 boyz and da jump power are going to be a pain.


Eh the last thing im worried about is orks. 1 not in my meta and 2 they're just really terrible right now I feel bad for them.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 03:58:59


Post by: ArtyomTrityak


So if our troops suck maybe we should not run Battalion? We can run 3 detachments and get 6CP.

1: Lord, 3xDDA - Nihilakh (reroll 1s to hit)
2: CCB character sniper, 6x5 TB - Mephrit (-1AP)
3. Cryptek, 2x6 Destroyers, 4x5 scarabs for objectives - Nephrekh (-2CP deep strike destroyers)

As a result we have 4CP for Extermination Protocols and maybe something else.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 04:14:41


Post by: Necronplayer


So just to get some numbers out there for common unit configurations and their efficiency against T3 5+. For auras, we'll add in additional units as well, since the unit efficiency goes up as you add more units inside the aura. We'll only apply one aura or buff to the unit unless the HQ unit gives out multiple. And we will choose the cheapest option for that buff/aura. We also assume max model count for each unit.

HQ aura/buff cost:
Lord @ 76 points
Overlord @ 87 points
Anakyr @ 178 points
Imotekh @ 200 points

True Efficiency (Including HQ Costs):

How to read this:


Base: 20
Without any buff/auras, it costs 20 points to inflict an unsaved wound.

Lord's Will: 10 / 8 / 5
If we have 1 unit in this aura, it costs 10 points to inflict an unsaved wound.
If we have 2 units in this aura, it costs 8 points to inflict an unsaved wound.
If we have 3 units in this aura, it costs 5 points to inflict an unsaved wound.


Units:

Warriors 1 / 2 / 3 Units:
Base: 32.40
Rapid Fire: 16.20
Lord's Will: 36.57 / 32.17 / 30.70

Tesla Immortals 1 / 2 / 3 Units:
Base: 19.12
Lord's Will: 23.72 / 20.06 / 18.84
MWBD: 19.27

Flayed Ones:
Base: 14.34
w/ Imotekh: 15.62
w/ Anakyr: 13.11
MWBD: 14.41

Scarabs:
Base: 19.5

Tomb Blades
Particle beamer base: 21.6
Tesla carbine base: 18

EDIT: Added Tomb Blades


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 05:31:53


Post by: Requizen


 Red Corsair wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Flayed Ones straight up remove Guard from the table. Potentially Scarabs too, though the WS nerf hurt them. Getting to them, however, is the main problem. Flayed Ones still lack a serious delivery system, and Scarabs just die too quickly. Maybe multiple max 9 man Scarab units just booking it towards the enemy lines, especially with Nephrekh + Strat on one unit.


MWBD + Veil + the reroll charges WLT gives you a reliable way to get 20 FO into combat as discussed several pages back.


8" with rerolls is around a 65% chance to get a charge off. That's... ok. I wouldn't call it great or reliable. And then, that's assuming they're not using Marine Scouts, Ratlings, or Scout Sentinels to zone out Deep Strikers, which they will be.

Nah, still no real reliable way to get them in range.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 05:54:47


Post by: BlueBeetle


Requizen wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Flayed Ones straight up remove Guard from the table. Potentially Scarabs too, though the WS nerf hurt them. Getting to them, however, is the main problem. Flayed Ones still lack a serious delivery system, and Scarabs just die too quickly. Maybe multiple max 9 man Scarab units just booking it towards the enemy lines, especially with Nephrekh + Strat on one unit.


MWBD + Veil + the reroll charges WLT gives you a reliable way to get 20 FO into combat as discussed several pages back.


8" with rerolls is around a 65% chance to get a charge off. That's... ok. I wouldn't call it great or reliable. And then, that's assuming they're not using Marine Scouts, Ratlings, or Scout Sentinels to zone out Deep Strikers, which they will be.

Nah, still no real reliable way to get them in range.


Thats why I was saying in theory it seems cool and may even work the first few times against newish players at local shops but from a competitive stand point no player is going to let this happen effectively. We're just going to give them points. Its just gimmicks and will not work against someone who knows the game at all even if not scouts there will be some line of small chaff to avoid any real damage.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 06:05:37


Post by: Red Corsair


I really think folks are getting carried away with the guardsmen talk. There a screen, mortars and las guns will not be killing any significant portion of our army. Luckily we have units that pull double duty. DDA, which are all around pretty amazing I'd say. Plus wraiths can either float right past the screen or at worst in a long deployment, dig in with them, then in the next turn move on.

At this point though. I think there needs to be less theory hammer and more play testing. For example I am thinking our best builds won't bother with troops at all. You only need CP's IMHO for reserving destroyers, then using extermination protocols, and maybe 1 CP for the Canoptek advance and charge. I'd say 5-6 CP's is probably fine. Trying to farm CP's just seems to require taking less efficient units which then require more units and CP's to fix so why bother, just take the things that work already IMO.

Of course maybe it will turn out that our troops will pull more weight then we are guessing, but they haven't changed much from the index so I am guessing it's a safe assumption that our troops are still kind of matchup dependent.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 06:53:36


Post by: Grimgold


Against MEQ, TEQ, and light vehicles our troops do reasonably well, and since they are cheap wounds with obsec, we should probably not bother supporting them, but we should take them.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 06:57:34


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Azuza001 wrote:
Am I missing something on the math of GEQ vs Warriors with support from a ghost ark?

40 warriors with out having to worry about moral should have little issue with 70 guards shooting Las at them even if they all were in double tap range.

70 guard, 140 shots, 70 hits, I will say 90 hits off of rerolls or whatever. That's 90 hits, 30 wounds since it's str 3 vs t4, let's say 36 wounds because rolls suck. That's still a 3+ save for only a loss of 6 guys on a squad of 20 that has 2 chances at rp, and 0 moral because I am sorry, the wl trait for ignore moral and block a power is just great. That's 3 getting up, then say 1 because rolls. So 70 guardsmen killed 2 warriors? How is that not an effective option for killing GEQ? Now you get to kill 30 more.


Because there's a massive points difference.
40 warriors + ghost ark is 640 points.
70 guard is something like 350 points (each guard is 5 points, right?)

That is not a fair comparison. If you want a more balanced analysis, you have to give the guard another 290 points of models.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 07:04:49


Post by: Arachnofiend


Guardsmen are four points per model. You'd need 160 of them to come out with the same points values as that warrior blob. Pretty sure the Guardsmen come out on top in that comparison.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 09:30:45


Post by: Lance845


So didn' they say that the necron dex was going to be the most drastic change thus far?

It doesn't look like it. We gained a new kind of warscythe (I think?) and crypteks gained the canoptek cloak.

Stratagems are the only fix to off world deepstrike/deployment from nightscythes and monoliths. Preatorians still don't have the dynasty keyword so they miss out on pretty much every stratagem and code. Flayed ones still have a complete gak weapon with no ap. RPs are the same.

All the problems still exist. Some even got worse.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 09:45:28


Post by: Klowny


 Red Corsair wrote:
I really think folks are getting carried away with the guardsmen talk. There a screen, mortars and las guns will not be killing any significant portion of our army. Luckily we have units that pull double duty. DDA, which are all around pretty amazing I'd say. Plus wraiths can either float right past the screen or at worst in a long deployment, dig in with them, then in the next turn move on.

At this point though. I think there needs to be less theory hammer and more play testing. For example I am thinking our best builds won't bother with troops at all. You only need CP's IMHO for reserving destroyers, then using extermination protocols, and maybe 1 CP for the Canoptek advance and charge. I'd say 5-6 CP's is probably fine. Trying to farm CP's just seems to require taking less efficient units which then require more units and CP's to fix so why bother, just take the things that work already IMO.

Of course maybe it will turn out that our troops will pull more weight then we are guessing, but they haven't changed much from the index so I am guessing it's a safe assumption that our troops are still kind of matchup dependent.


I agree wholeheartedly with this. GEQ will not be fielded en mass, besides a few unique (rare) builds. Im not overly scared of them, especially when 50% of tesla immortals shots proc an extra 2 hits and hit on 2+ rr'ing 1's......, 10 Timmortals will put out a prodigious amount of firepower. A vault killing 1/3 of a GEQ blob from a single power alone, yet the 20 s7 tesla that can proc on 5's..... with that same GEQ blob unable to do anything to T7 28w. I dont know everyone else's meta but here on the west coast of Australia its a lot more elite, there have been a few select cases where a horde has done really well, but for the most part huge hordes are dying out due to the large number of things that can mince them.

I think there are a number of stratagems that are worth popping each round. The +1 to hit strat, the swapping ctan power, exploding scarabs, saving one to save your warlord from giving up StW, the +1 to QS, the extra c'tan power..... if you spend them all in one turn, your blowing 7 cp right there, (4.7 if you have the right dynasty). I almost never would pop them all in one round by you get the idea. CP farming is far more advantageous in Necrons than it is in alot of other armies, as we have a wide range of stratagems that can be spent every turn, meaning having more CP/getting them back is very advantageous.

For example, my ultramarines.... some games I dont even spend any CP, and thats with having the ability to farm them (big daddy G). Honour the chapter and auspex scan are usually what i spend them on, and its very situational that they get spent.... and since he gives full re-rolls to a very heavy shooting army I hardly ever need them.

Remember, Zandrekh is Sautekh and his ability is very very strong, if you can get it to pop you can do serious work to an army that build/plan their armies around certain auras. This combined with CP farming is too hard to pass up IMO, considering the other warlord traits are very very situational at best (the immune to morale is probably #2.... if your running silver tide style armies).



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Lance845 wrote:
So didn' they say that the necron dex was going to be the most drastic change thus far?

It doesn't look like it. We gained a new kind of warscythe (I think?) and crypteks gained the canoptek cloak.

Stratagems are the only fix to off world deepstrike/deployment from nightscythes and monoliths. Preatorians still don't have the dynasty keyword so they miss out on pretty much every stratagem and code. Flayed ones still have a complete gak weapon with no ap. RPs are the same.

All the problems still exist. Some even got worse.


Yep the voidscythe is very nice, crypteks got the canoptek cloak.

Our mobility issues have been significantly reduced, with a multitute of ways to get things where they need to be. VoT, Zandrekh/obryn, Monolith/NS, stratagems and Deciever all make the slow foot slogging troops faster. But 8th ed necrons have never been good if you run infantry heavy :(

What has been drastic is the amount of buffs they gave the already star units of the index's. It was common knowledge that the best units were all super fast and tough, wraiths, TB, vehicles. Now these are all even faster and tougher, making our power spike from this alone quite significant.

The major change, is the amount of Mortal Wounds our army can put out. Currently we sit #2 behind nids (due to biovores and their ability to spam psykers), but when beta smite comes in, the only list that can put out more MW than us will be Biovore spam. If that gets nerfed we will be #1 by a long shot at MW generation. There are weapons, warlord abilities, stratagems and units that all do mortal wounds, some in significant numbers. This is all simultaneously while our firepower has increased and our points cost decreased. Remember, index necrons had I think 2 ways (FW bomber and some meh c'tan powers) to deal MW. Now that number has gone up ridiculously. We were literally at the bottom for MW generation.

For me my crons haven't changed that much, I was running vehicle heavy, SHV & c'tan/wraith stars in index, but for the majority of cron players (it seems anyway) the codex plays vastly different to index if you want to play it at its strongest



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 10:23:53


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


Random thought:

We are usually going to need 3 HQs in army lists and one each of an Overlord, Lord and Cryptek seems sensible to grant access to all the different auras. Based on that assumption what do people think to:

Zandrekh
Obyron
Cryptek with Veil

It's about 150pts more than taking the basic versions of each type, which is off putting as our HQ tax is a problem.

It does give acces to 2 Veils though (one with an unfortunate drawback). Obyrons mantle can still be quite effective even if you don't go very far though; you can pull a unit out of assault and still shoot, or advance Zandrekh 5+D6" then teleport 6" in front to move forward quickly.

The two Veils also give the option of teleporting all 3 HQs + one unit anywhere, which might be good with a big Lychguard unit. I'm not a fan of this kind of trick as something an army is built around but as an option to have available from HQs that also function well at the core of a Battalion of troops it's nice.

What kind of list would you build around this trio?



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 10:37:36


Post by: Klowny


Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Random thought:

We are usually going to need 3 HQs in army lists and one each of an Overlord, Lord and Cryptek seems sensible to grant access to all the different auras. Based on that assumption what do people think to:

Zandrekh
Obyron
Cryptek with Veil

It's about 150pts more than taking the basic versions of each type, which is off putting as our HQ tax is a problem.

It does give acces to 2 Veils though (one with an unfortunate drawback). Obyrons mantle can still be quite effective even if you don't go very far though; you can pull a unit out of assault and still shoot, or advance Zandrekh 5+D6" then teleport 6" in front to move forward quickly.

The two Veils also give the option of teleporting all 3 HQs + one unit anywhere, which might be good with a big Lychguard unit. I'm not a fan of this kind of trick as something an army is built around but as an option to have available from HQs that also function well at the core of a Battalion of troops it's nice.

What kind of list would you build around this trio?



Hmm, youve given me an idea. I was wondering how to get Zandrekh into aura range, my plan for HQ's is two cape-teks (1 with a TB squad, 1 with midfield/TV) and Zandrekh, but i might be tempted to spend a CP to get the veil on the second capetek (relic SoL is way too good to give up)... If the points are spare i might bring obryn along and blink Zandrekh, obryn and Tesla immortals into tesla/aura range (in cover for the extra troll). Its a nice way to get him into aura range if required, and I can leave the second cape-tek with the immortals until the TV needs to heal. Since relics are spend at the start of the game I think its gives you the option of extra mobility/effectiveness for Zandrekh if the aura negation is worth it (Gman/banners for example)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 11:08:50


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


Further Musings on things you could do with Zan, Ob + cryp

Lychgurd: If you have a big unit of lychguard heading up your phalanx you could:

Teleport zan and cyptek 9" from enemy then bring Obyron + Lychguard in 3" from the enemy.

Or

If zan happens to get the reroll charge buff, you could put it on the lychguard along with MWBD and teleport them with the cryptek for an 8" reroll charge.

With a monolith you could use 1CP to port Zan to the lith then bring Obyron, the Cryptek and 2 units over to them.


The obvious flaws with these ideas is that they involve monoliths and Lychguard lol.


What I do like about all of this is that while you can do some crazy teleport into peoples faces tricks you don't have to, and you don't have to do it right away. The 3 HQs can sit among a bunch of tesla immortals with the option to jump out right away, or wait until there are less screenin units around.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 11:18:49


Post by: Doctoralex


I got a question regarding the Tesseract Vault: I heard it comes with a T. C'tan, but can you use the C'tan seperately? Or is it kind of molded into it's 'cage'?



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 11:43:53


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


I only just noticed that the Ghostwalk Mantle is not limited to once per game. That's something.


Ooh and something else: The Deceiver could "infiltrate" himself + Zandrekh + another unit then a Veiltek, obyron and 2 other units could join them. So 4 characters and 3 units show up somewhere.

Eg you could have:

Zan
Obyron
Veiltek
Deceiver

2x 10 Telsa Immortals (With +2 to hit from MWBD + Sautekh Strat)
6x Destroyer (With reroll everthing Strat)

Some serious dakka.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 12:19:28


Post by: Maelstrom808


Doctoralex wrote:
I got a question regarding the Tesseract Vault: I heard it comes with a T. C'tan, but can you use the C'tan seperately? Or is it kind of molded into it's 'cage'?



You can use him separately and take him off and on the vault model if you are careful. This is mine:



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 12:39:35


Post by: iGuy91


Maybe I missed something.
How are some folks having tesla immortals proccing extra hits on 4+ is there a stratagem i'm misreading or something? I get the +1 from MWBD, but whats the second piece? Edit** Is it the Methodical Destruction Strat?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 12:47:22


Post by: Therion


 Klowny wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
I really think folks are getting carried away with the guardsmen talk. There a screen, mortars and las guns will not be killing any significant portion of our army. Luckily we have units that pull double duty. DDA, which are all around pretty amazing I'd say. Plus wraiths can either float right past the screen or at worst in a long deployment, dig in with them, then in the next turn move on.

At this point though. I think there needs to be less theory hammer and more play testing. For example I am thinking our best builds won't bother with troops at all. You only need CP's IMHO for reserving destroyers, then using extermination protocols, and maybe 1 CP for the Canoptek advance and charge. I'd say 5-6 CP's is probably fine. Trying to farm CP's just seems to require taking less efficient units which then require more units and CP's to fix so why bother, just take the things that work already IMO.

Of course maybe it will turn out that our troops will pull more weight then we are guessing, but they haven't changed much from the index so I am guessing it's a safe assumption that our troops are still kind of matchup dependent.


I agree wholeheartedly with this. GEQ will not be fielded en mass, besides a few unique (rare) builds. Im not overly scared of them, especially when 50% of tesla immortals shots proc an extra 2 hits and hit on 2+ rr'ing 1's......, 10 Timmortals will put out a prodigious amount of firepower. A vault killing 1/3 of a GEQ blob from a single power alone, yet the 20 s7 tesla that can proc on 5's..... with that same GEQ blob unable to do anything to T7 28w. I dont know everyone else's meta but here on the west coast of Australia its a lot more elite, there have been a few select cases where a horde has done really well, but for the most part huge hordes are dying out due to the large number of things that can mince them.


This is what's misleading about tactica discussions. People who have absolutely zero understanding of the competitive meta are posting sweeping statements about what will or will not be fielded.

So, I'm attending a 5 game GT this weekend with my Imperials, here's a few lists for you to think about (Tournament lists went public two days before the event begins).

Spoiler:

== Brigade Detachment, Astra Militarum, CATACHAN ==
HQ1: Straken (75) [75]
HQ2: Company Commander (30), Power Sword (4) [34]
HQ3: Primaris Psyker (46), Psychic Maelstrom, Darkshroud [46]
Troop1: Infantry Squad (40), Mortar (5), Chainsword (0) [45]
Troop2: Infantry Squad (40), Mortar (5), Chainsword (0) [45]
Troop3: Infantry Squad (40), Mortar (5), Chainsword (0) [45]
Troop4: Infantry Squad (40), Flamer (7), Chainsword (0) [47]
Troop5: Infantry Squad (40), Flamer (7), Chainsword (0) [47]
Troop6: Infantry Squad (40), Flamer (7), Chainsword (0) [47]
Elite1: Ministorum Priest (35) [35]
Elite2: Platoon Commander (20), Warlord, Grand Strategist, Kurov's Aquila [20]
Elite3: Harker (50) [50]
Fast1: Scout Sentinel (35), Heavy Flamer (17) [52]
Fast2: Scout Sentinel (35), Heavy Flamer (17) [52]
Fast3: Hellhound (93), Heavy Flamer (17) [110]
Heavy1: Heavy Weapons Team (18), 3x Mortar (15) [33]
Heavy2: Heavy Weapons Team (18), 3x Mortar (15) [33]
Heavy3: Heavy Weapons Team (18), 3x Mortar (15) [33]
== Supreme Command Detachment, Adeptus Custodes ==
HQ4: Shield-Captain on Dawneagle (150), Hurricane Bolter (10), Misericordia (4) [164]
HQ5: Shield-Captain on Dawneagle (150), Hurricane Bolter (10), Misericordia (4) [164]
HQ6: Shield-Captain on Dawneagle (150), Hurricane Bolter (10), Misericordia (4) [164]
== Battallion Detachment, Blood Angels ==
HQ7: Captain (74), Jump Pack (19), Thunder Hammer (21), Mastercraft Bolter (3) [117]
HQ8: Captain (74), Jump Pack (19), Thunder Hammer (21), Mastercraft Bolter (3) [117]
Troop7: Scouts (55) [55]
Troop8: Scouts (55) [55]
Troop9: Scouts (55) [55]
Elite4: 13 Death Company (221), Bolters & Chainswords (0), Jump Packs (39) [260]


Black Legion Battalion
HQ 1: Abaddon [240] Warlord
HQ 2: Exalted Champion (70) Power sword (4) Combi-Bolter (2) [76] (murder sword)
HQ 3: Sorcerer (90) force sword (8) Combi-Bolter (2) <Slaanesh> [100] (warptime. prescience)
Troop 1: 40 Cultists (160) 40 Autoguns (0) <Slaanesh> [160]
Troop 2: 40 Cultists (160) 40 Autoguns (0) <Slaanesh> [160]
Troop 3: 35 Cultists (140) 35 Autoguns (0) <Slaanesh> [140]
Troop 4: 35 Cultists (140) 35 Autoguns (0) <Slaanesh> [140]
Troop 5: 35 Cultists (140) 35 Autoguns (0) <Slaanesh> [140]
Death Guard Vanguard detachment
HQ 4: Typhus [175] (miasma of pestilence, Putrecent vitality)
Elite 1: Tallyman (55) Plasma pistol (7) [62]
Ellte 2: Noxious Blightbringer (58) Plasma pistol (7) [65]
Elite 3: Foul Blightspawn [77]
Troop 6: 20 Poxwalkers [120]
Troop 7: 16 Poxwalkers [96]
Black Legions Patrol Detachment
HQ 5: Fabilous Bile [109]
Troop 8: 35 Cultists (140) 35 Autoguns (0) <Slaanesh> [140]
Total: [2000]

Total Points: 2000
Command Points: 16
Cadian Brigade Detachment.
HQ1: Company Commander (30) chainsword (0) [30] WARLORD (grand strategist, kurov's aquila)
HQ2: Company Commander (30) chainsword (0) [30]
HQ3: Primaris Psyker [46] (psychic barrier, nightshroud)
Elite1: Platoon Commander (20) chainsword (0) bolt pistol (1) [21]
Elite2: Platoon Commander (20) chainsword (0) [20]
Elite3: Platoon Commander (20) chainsword (0) [20]
Troop1: Infantry Squad (40) chainsword (0) Plasma Gun (7) [47]
Troop2: Infantry Squad (40) chainsword (0) Plasma Gun (7) [47]
Troop3: Infantry Squad (40) chainsword (0) Mortar (5) [45]
Troop4: Infantry Squad (40) chainsword (0) Mortar (5) [45]
Troop5: Infantry Squad (40) chainsword (0) Mortar (5) [45]
Troop6: Infantry Squad (40) chainsword (0) Mortar (5) [45]
Fast1: Scout Sentinel (35) Autocannon (13) [48]
Fast2: Scout Sentinel (35) Autocannon (13) [48]
Fast3: Scout Sentinel (35) Autocannon (13) [48]
Heavy1: HWS (18), 3x Mortar (15) [33]
Heavy2: HWS (18), 3x Mortar (15) [33]
Heavy3: HWS (18), 3x Mortar (15) [33]
Custodes Supreme Command Detachment.
HQ4: Shield Commander on Dawneagle (150) Hurricane Bolter (10) [160]
HQ5: Shield Commander on Dawneagle (150) Hurricane Bolter (10) Misericordia (4) [164]
HQ6: Shield Commander on Dawneagle (150) Hurricane Bolter (10) Misericordia (4) [164]
Blood Angel Battalion Detachment.
HQ8: Captain with jump pack (93) Thunder Hammer (21) [114]
HQ9: Librarian with jump pack (112) force sword (8) [120] (unleash rage, wings of sangunius)
HQ10: Lemartes [129]
Troop7: Scouts (55) bolters (0) [55]
Troop8: Scouts (55) bolters (0) [55]
Troop9: Scouts (55) bolters (0) [55]
Elite4: 15 Death Company & Jump Packs (300) Bolters&Chainswords (0) [300]


Army: ORKS ORKS ORKS
Total CP: 8
Total points: 1995
Battalion Detachment <Goff>
HQ1: Ghazghkull Thraka [215] (WARLORD: Might is Right)
HQ2: Big Mek (55) Kustom Force Field (20) Big Choppa (7) [82] (Relic: Headwoppa’s Killchoppa)
HQ3: Big Mek (55) Kustom Force Field (20) [75]
Troop1: 30 Boyz (180) Boss Nob with Big Choppa (7) [187]
Troop2: 30 Boyz (180) Boss Nob with Big Choppa (7) [187]
Troop3: 30 Boyz (180) Boss Nob with Big Choppa (7) [187]
Troop4: 30 Boyz (180) Boss Nob with Big Choppa (7) [187]
Troop5: 27 Boyz (162) Boss Nob with Big Choppa (7) [169]
FA1: 30 Storm Boyz (240) Boss Nob with Big Choppa (7) [247]
Vanguard Detachment <Goff>
HQ3: Weirdboy [62] (Warpath)
Elites1: Painboy (40) Power Klaw (13) [53]
Elites2: Nob with Waaagh! Banner (75) Kustom Shoota (4) [79]
Elites3: Painboy (40) Power Klaw (13) [53]
Supreme Command Detachment <Goff>
HQ4: Weirdboy [62] (Da Jump)
HQ5: Weirdboy [62] (Da Jump)
HQ6: Boss Zagstrukk [88]

Army: Chaos Soup
Command Points: 9
Total Points: 1999
Battalion Detachment <Black Legion> [840 Points] (+3CP)
HQ1: 1 Abaddon the Despoiler - [240pts] WARLORD (+2CP) (First Among Traitors)
HQ2: 1 Sorcerer with jump pack (112), force sword (8) <Slaanesh> <Black Legion> - [120pts] (Prescience,
Warptime) [Eye of Night]
Troop1: 40 Chaos Cultists, autoguns (0) (160) <Slaanesh> <Black Legion> - [160pts]
Troop2: 40 Chaos Cultists, autoguns (0) (160) <Slaanesh> <Black Legion> - [160pts]
Troop3: 40 Chaos Cultists, autoguns (0) (160) <Slaanesh> <Black Legion> - [160pts]
Spearhead Detachment <Chaos Soup> [1159Pts] (+1CP)
HQ4: Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with wings (170) 2 malefic talons (10) - [180pts] (Gaze of Fate, Diabolical
Strength) <Thousand Sons>
HQ5: Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with wings (170) 2 malefic talons (10) - [180pts] (Infernal Gaze, Weaver of
Fates) <Thousand Sons>
Troop4: 40 Chaos Cultists, autopistol and brutal close combat weapon (0) (160) <Khorne> <Alpha Legion> -
[160pts]
Troop5: 3 Nurglings (54) <Nurgle> - [54pts]
HS1: 3 Obliterators <Slaanesh> <Black Legion> - [195pts]
HS2: 3 Obliterators <Slaanesh> <Black Legion> - [195pts]
HS3: 3 Obliterators <Slaanesh> <Black Legion> - [195pts]


I posted only some of the choice lists. Are you still prepared to say Necrons don't need to concern themselves about GEQ? It's one of the most laughable statements I've seen yet. The truth about the tournament game is that you need to prepare against everything, and mostly you can't, and you'd be happy to get some luck with your matchups. This same tournament has multiple triple superheavy lists too, which are quite the polar opposite. My list is an Imperial soup with Astra Militarum, Adeptus Custodes, Dark Angels, Sisters, and Assassins.

Spoiler:
== Battalion Detachment, Imperium ==
HQ1: Celestine (200), 2 Geminae Superia (50), Order of Our Martyred Lady [250]
HQ2: Sammael in Sableclaw (216), Dark Angels [216]
HQ3: Ravenwing Talonmaster (123), Twin Heavy Bolter (17), Twin Assault Cannon (44), Power Sword (4),
Dark Angels [188]
Elite1: Platoon Commander (20), Warlord, Grand Strategist, Kurov's Aquila, Vostroyan [20]
Elite2: Culexus Assassin (85), Officio Assassinorum [85]
Troop1: Scout Squad (55), Dark Angels [55]
Troop2: Scout Squad (55), Dark Angels [55]
Troop3: Scout Squad (55), Dark Angels [55]
Fast1: Seraphim Squad (55), 4 Inferno Pistols (36), Order of Our Martyred Lady [91]
Heavy1: Heavy Weapons Team (18), 3 Mortars (15), Vostroyan [33]
== Supreme Command Detachment, Adeptus Custodes ==
HQ4: Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike (150), Hurricane Bolter (10) [160]
HQ5: Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike (150), Hurricane Bolter (10) [160]
HQ6: Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike (150), Hurricane Bolter (10) [160]
== Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment, Astra Militarum, Vostroyan ==
LOW1: Shadowsword (390), 3 Twin Heavy Bolters (42), 2 Lascannons (40), Vostroyan [472]


You can stick your 10 Immortals where the sun doesn't shine with these lists.





Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 13:41:02


Post by: danzin0


Therion basically nailed it.

I have no idea why people are suggesting that chaff isn't an issue. It is a huge part of the meta at the moment, so yeah... we really do need to be equipped to deal with it.

I've not really had time to properly digest codex yet. There's some good changes and we are definitely in a better place to where we were, but still think we will struggle a bit to be honest.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 13:46:18


Post by: Klowny


Those lists perform well in your meta?

Yes I agree Necrons would struggle against that but holy hell my marines would 20-0 every. Single. One of them. Really odd you have such a hordey spam meta.

Im glad I don’t have to worry about that


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Most of those lists have like 2 units that can do some damage, kill the bikes, or the death company, or the oblits and those armies kill like 1 Unit a turn, with all the rest of the shooting. Slaneesh cultists are different.

Also, yeah in a tournament you are going to get a bad matchup, and if we can’t deal with chaff that well then maybe that’s our weakness. A triple superheavy is the other end of the spectrum but again, they don’t win tournaments (at least not around here).

What has been shown are two extreme examples, super hordey and super elite, were in the middle and have tools against everything.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 14:00:49


Post by: Azuza001


My comparison was vs 100 guardsmen, but with us getting first turn of shooting due to dropping in / deep strike and killing 30 to begin with.

I am not saying it's a point effective option to kill guard, I am saying that the guard are going to have a lot of trouble killing that many warriors with the buffs we get vs the warriors having little issue killing them back.

If every army had a way to deal with every option out there then the game would be stale, it would be your marines and my warriors and his guard all represent the same thing so why bother. It's these differences that make things great for having different armies that are good at different things.

There are only a few guard players in my meta, but one runs mass infantry and the other mix of infantry and tanks. Myself I will be trying the warrior blob vs the infantry force once the codex is out for real. Maybe it's a waste, maybe not. I think one round of shooting isn't the way to measure a units usefulness, you have to look at the return fire as well, as well as other things like other units that could be used. That's when things get difficult in theory hammer.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 14:02:01


Post by: Therion


 Klowny wrote:
Those lists perform well in your meta?

Yes I agree Necrons would struggle against that but holy hell my marines would 20-0 every. Single. One of them. Really odd you have such a hordey spam meta.

Im glad I don’t have to worry about that


Just stop man. You're embarassing yourself now. Just put your money where your mouth is and post your list. There's some brutally top tier lists there that nearly cannot lose more than marginally like the Poxwalkers, and you come off here from your non-competitive local store meta saying your Space Marines would 20-0 them all. Hilarious really. This is what message boards are good for. Comedy.








Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 14:03:24


Post by: Zimko


 Klowny wrote:
Those lists perform well in your meta?

Yes I agree Necrons would struggle against that but holy hell my marines would 20-0 every. Single. One of them. Really odd you have such a hordey spam meta.

Im glad I don’t have to worry about that


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Most of those lists have like 2 units that can do some damage, kill the bikes, or the death company, or the oblits and those armies kill like 1 Unit a turn, with all the rest of the shooting. Slaneesh cultists are different.

Also, yeah in a tournament you are going to get a bad matchup, and if we can’t deal with chaff that well then maybe that’s our weakness. A triple superheavy is the other end of the spectrum but again, they don’t win tournaments (at least not around here).

What has been shown are two extreme examples, super hordey and super elite, were in the middle and have tools against everything.


those bikes have character protection. The death company will deep strike and have 3d6 charge. the oblits will also deep strike and poxwalkers will fill the board, taking all the objectives (that's a poxwalker apocolypse list. For every cultist you kill, they get a poxwalker, and the poxwalkers are untargetable.) and the poxwalkers will become a threat with all those character buffs.

You're dismissing these lists as if they're easy because you personally haven't seen them win anything. But they're a real threat.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 14:21:35


Post by: Archebius


Azuza001 wrote:

If every army had a way to deal with every option out there then the game would be stale, it would be your marines and my warriors and his guard all represent the same thing so why bother. It's these differences that make things great for having different armies that are good at different things.

There are only a few guard players in my meta, but one runs mass infantry and the other mix of infantry and tanks. Myself I will be trying the warrior blob vs the infantry force once the codex is out for real. Maybe it's a waste, maybe not. I think one round of shooting isn't the way to measure a units usefulness, you have to look at the return fire as well, as well as other things like other units that could be used. That's when things get difficult in theory hammer.


Yeah, I agree, hard to know exactly how things will perform until you get them on the table. You should let us know how your warriors work out when the time comes.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 14:25:01


Post by: Odrankt


 Therion wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
Those lists perform well in your meta?

Yes I agree Necrons would struggle against that but holy hell my marines would 20-0 every. Single. One of them. Really odd you have such a hordey spam meta.

Im glad I don’t have to worry about that


Just stop man. You're embarassing yourself now. Just put your money where your mouth is and post your list. There's some brutally top tier lists there that nearly cannot lose more than marginally like the Poxwalkers, and you come off here from your non-competitive local store meta saying your Space Marines would 20-0 them all. Hilarious really. This is what message boards are good for. Comedy.



So much salt

You should realise every Meta is different. While yours seems to run soup and spam a lot of other places don't. My Meta for example is full of people who run what they like. I only see soups and spams when Team Ireland and Northern Ireland players are participating in tournaments or practicing against each other at my local club.

If a tournament in my area has 60ish people playing then it's usually 6-8 people bring spam and soup and the other 52-4 people just do "rule of cool" and play to have a great time.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 14:26:07


Post by: Dionysodorus


Azuza001 wrote:
My comparison was vs 100 guardsmen, but with us getting first turn of shooting due to dropping in / deep strike and killing 30 to begin with.

I am not saying it's a point effective option to kill guard, I am saying that the guard are going to have a lot of trouble killing that many warriors with the buffs we get vs the warriors having little issue killing them back.

If every army had a way to deal with every option out there then the game would be stale, it would be your marines and my warriors and his guard all represent the same thing so why bother. It's these differences that make things great for having different armies that are good at different things.

There are only a few guard players in my meta, but one runs mass infantry and the other mix of infantry and tanks. Myself I will be trying the warrior blob vs the infantry force once the codex is out for real. Maybe it's a waste, maybe not. I think one round of shooting isn't the way to measure a units usefulness, you have to look at the return fire as well, as well as other things like other units that could be used. That's when things get difficult in theory hammer.

Let's go back to your original post:
Azuza001 wrote:
Am I missing something on the math of GEQ vs Warriors with support from a ghost ark?

40 warriors with out having to worry about moral should have little issue with 70 guards shooting Las at them even if they all were in double tap range.

70 guard, 140 shots, 70 hits, I will say 90 hits off of rerolls or whatever. That's 90 hits, 30 wounds since it's str 3 vs t4, let's say 36 wounds because rolls suck. That's still a 3+ save for only a loss of 6 guys on a squad of 20 that has 2 chances at rp, and 0 moral because I am sorry, the wl trait for ignore moral and block a power is just great. That's 3 getting up, then say 1 because rolls. So 70 guardsmen killed 2 warriors? How is that not an effective option for killing GEQ? Now you get to kill 30 more.

So your 480 points of Warriors, 160 point Ghost Ark, and then your Warlord drop in. Giving the Ark 10 shots too, you're killing 33 Guardsmen out of the original 100 (133 out of 400 points). So far so good, though you didn't actually kill that much for your investment. But then you're significantly underestimating their return fire. They're definitely going to have FRFSRF. It's closer to 268 shots (tho the sergeants don't benefit and don't rapid fire). Also Warriors have a 4+ save, not 3+. So the remaining 267 points of Guardsmen expect 134 hits, 44.7 wounds, and 22.3 failed saves. That's a full squad, so you're not getting RP, and it's also 268 points' worth of Warriors. The Guardsmen handily won the exchange even though you had more points of Warriors to start with and got to shoot first.

But you also can't just ignore the rest of their army. This is the problem with RP. Even if those Guardsmen roll a bit below average and only kill 19 Warriors, what's going to happen is that some of your opponent's other 1600 points finish off the last Warrior. You can only rely on getting RP on very beefy squads that stay pretty far away from the enemy.

At least you still have one full squad to shoot with next turn though, right? Except that it's probably stuck in CC.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 14:40:41


Post by: Klowny


Therion wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
Those lists perform well in your meta?

Yes I agree Necrons would struggle against that but holy hell my marines would 20-0 every. Single. One of them. Really odd you have such a hordey spam meta.

Im glad I don’t have to worry about that


Just stop man. You're embarassing yourself now. Just put your money where your mouth is and post your list. There's some brutally top tier lists there that nearly cannot lose more than marginally like the Poxwalkers, and you come off here from your non-competitive local store meta saying your Space Marines would 20-0 them all. Hilarious really. This is what message boards are good for. Comedy.









Easy

Gman
Smashfether w/ combi-melta, TH, santic halo
2x fire raptors
repulsor full of aggressors
tiggy
scouts


Zimko wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
Those lists perform well in your meta?

Yes I agree Necrons would struggle against that but holy hell my marines would 20-0 every. Single. One of them. Really odd you have such a hordey spam meta.

Im glad I don’t have to worry about that


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Most of those lists have like 2 units that can do some damage, kill the bikes, or the death company, or the oblits and those armies kill like 1 Unit a turn, with all the rest of the shooting. Slaneesh cultists are different.

Also, yeah in a tournament you are going to get a bad matchup, and if we can’t deal with chaff that well then maybe that’s our weakness. A triple superheavy is the other end of the spectrum but again, they don’t win tournaments (at least not around here).

What has been shown are two extreme examples, super hordey and super elite, were in the middle and have tools against everything.


those bikes have character protection. The death company will deep strike and have 3d6 charge. the oblits will also deep strike and poxwalkers will fill the board, taking all the objectives (that's a poxwalker apocolypse list. For every cultist you kill, they get a poxwalker, and the poxwalkers are untargetable.) and the poxwalkers will become a threat with all those character buffs.

You're dismissing these lists as if they're easy because you personally haven't seen them win anything. But they're a real threat.


I know the bikes have character protection, but they have to break sometime, its kinda hard to win a fight against aggressors with VoT and null zone up.... but i know what you are saying, they are a threat, im not denying it. All im saying is those lists hemorage KP, to the point that even if the bikes managed to kill a few units, once their gone its very easy to kill everything else.

Ive seen 3d6 +1 double bloodletter bombs fail with skarbrand behind them... and auspex scan would deny them the charge if they want to survive.

Oblits are scary, but again, they get one round of shooting off, can they kill 2 fire raptors with -1/2 to hit? Doubt they have that much dakka.

Ive personally minced poxerwalker hordes, sure there is a HUGE poxwalker horde to deal with at the end, but its not really that threatening IMO. If youve got the dakka, youve got the answer.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 14:44:53


Post by: Requizen


 Odrankt wrote:
 Therion wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
Those lists perform well in your meta?

Yes I agree Necrons would struggle against that but holy hell my marines would 20-0 every. Single. One of them. Really odd you have such a hordey spam meta.

Im glad I don’t have to worry about that


Just stop man. You're embarassing yourself now. Just put your money where your mouth is and post your list. There's some brutally top tier lists there that nearly cannot lose more than marginally like the Poxwalkers, and you come off here from your non-competitive local store meta saying your Space Marines would 20-0 them all. Hilarious really. This is what message boards are good for. Comedy.



So much salt

You should realise every Meta is different. While yours seems to run soup and spam a lot of other places don't. My Meta for example is full of people who run what they like. I only see soups and spams when Team Ireland and Northern Ireland players are participating in tournaments or practicing against each other at my local club.

If a tournament in my area has 60ish people playing then it's usually 6-8 people bring spam and soup and the other 52-4 people just do "rule of cool" and play to have a great time.


That's not what's being discussed, though. Doing well when everyone is just playing whatever and going to have a good time - that doesn't matter, since you can't talk about that from a tactical perspective. If you're going to discuss competition and tournament play, the only thing worth discussing is how it competes against top level lists. I can throw random models in my bag and beat a player who just brought nothing but Tactical Marines "because he thinks it's cool", but you have to actually try to do good against things like Eldar/Ynnari, Imperial soup, or any of the other meta builds. And that's what needs to be discussed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Klowny wrote:


Ive personally minced poxerwalker hordes, sure there is a HUGE poxwalker horde to deal with at the end, but its not really that threatening IMO. If youve got the dakka, youve got the answer.


How large? Because the game is based around Objectives 90% of the time, not just Kill Points, and a huge, nigh-unkillable ObSec blob wins games because you can't get them off of objective markers.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 15:03:57


Post by: Azuza001


I apologize, I don't know why I was thinking warriors were 3+ save. Bah. I still plan on trying it out and seeing how it turns out.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 15:04:48


Post by: Odrankt


That's not what's being discussed, though. Doing well when everyone is just playing whatever and going to have a good time - that doesn't matter, since you can't talk about that from a tactical perspective. If you're going to discuss competition and tournament play, the only thing worth discussing is how it competes against top level lists. I can throw random models in my bag and beat a player who just brought nothing but Tactical Marines "because he thinks it's cool", but you have to actually try to do good against things like Eldar/Ynnari, Imperial soup, or any of the other meta builds. And that's what needs to be discussed.


I was only giving insight that everyones Meta is different meaning everyone brings different lists to accommodate to their Meta. E.g. Therions Meta looks more "spam and soup" orientatied while my Meta is more "bring what you like".


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 15:09:03


Post by: Lothmar


I keep seeing people mention the lord and artillery models, just making sure people notice his ability only applies to the 'Infantry' keyword.

Also wouldn't 2x tesla be better on the TB then 1 PC for GEQ? Or is it a matter of point cost / efficiency?

----

Does the abysall staffs effect still work on low leadership model hordes that get artificial leadership like Nids / Orks?

…Since the 'Phaerons will' strategy is use a characters MWBD ability for a second time in a turn, does that mean Imotekhs version that lets him MWBD 2 squads in a turn would let him MWBD 4 units if this was used? Or would he only get one extra use of mwbd for a total of 3 if the ability just lets him use the mwbd ability a second time?

Is the orb of eternity just a +1 rez orb, or is it Use the +1 effect once per battle and then it is still a rez orb so you can use that effect after?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 15:11:56


Post by: Requizen


 Odrankt wrote:
That's not what's being discussed, though. Doing well when everyone is just playing whatever and going to have a good time - that doesn't matter, since you can't talk about that from a tactical perspective. If you're going to discuss competition and tournament play, the only thing worth discussing is how it competes against top level lists. I can throw random models in my bag and beat a player who just brought nothing but Tactical Marines "because he thinks it's cool", but you have to actually try to do good against things like Eldar/Ynnari, Imperial soup, or any of the other meta builds. And that's what needs to be discussed.


I was only giving insight that everyones Meta is different meaning everyone brings different lists to accommodate to their Meta. E.g. Therions Meta looks more "spam and soup" orientatied while my Meta is more "bring what you like".


That's true, and you should cater a bit to your meta, but when talking Tactica at large, you have to discuss "The" Meta (i.e. what is winning GTs), which is largely Spam and Soup.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 15:18:22


Post by: Galef


Requizen wrote:
 Klowny wrote:

Ive personally minced poxerwalker hordes, sure there is a HUGE poxwalker horde to deal with at the end, but its not really that threatening IMO. If youve got the dakka, youve got the answer.


How large? Because the game is based around Objectives 90% of the time, not just Kill Points, and a huge, nigh-unkillable ObSec blob wins games because you can't get them off of objective markers.

The bigger the better, actually. You can take a durable(ish) unit and charge the outer ends of the Poxwalkers and force them to pile in -OFF- the objective.
You don't always have to kill the unit to get it to move off of an objective. Selective charging can work too. Models HAVE to pile in towards the closest enemy unit.

Although I agree Poxwalker hordes are a difficult match-up for most.

-


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 15:24:21


Post by: Requizen


 Galef wrote:
Requizen wrote:
 Klowny wrote:

Ive personally minced poxerwalker hordes, sure there is a HUGE poxwalker horde to deal with at the end, but its not really that threatening IMO. If youve got the dakka, youve got the answer.


How large? Because the game is based around Objectives 90% of the time, not just Kill Points, and a huge, nigh-unkillable ObSec blob wins games because you can't get them off of objective markers.

The bigger the better, actually. You can take a durable(ish) unit and charge the outer ends of the Poxwalkers and force them to pile in -OFF- the objective.
You don't always have to kill the unit to get it to move off of an objective. Selective charging can work too. Models HAVE to pile in towards the closest enemy unit.

Although I agree Poxwalker hordes are a difficult match-up for most.

-


I don't think that works the way you think it does. You have to pile in to the closest target, but you don't have to opt to pile in. You can remain stationary, and then on top of that, just walk out of combat the next turn because it's 8th.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 15:24:50


Post by: Dionysodorus


Requizen wrote:

That's true, and you should cater a bit to your meta, but when talking Tactica at large, you have to discuss "The" Meta (i.e. what is winning GTs), which is largely Spam and Soup.

I don't think that's quite true.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to talk about a bunch of things that aren't relevant to winning major tournaments in a tactics thread, such as:
1) I have this (generally understood to be suboptimal) unit I want to use: what is the best way to use it and what synergies does it have with other units?
2) My local meta differs from what you see at major tournaments in ways A, B, and C: what would work best for that?
and even:
3) I want a solid list that avoids certain things my local group is likely to respond to poorly: how does this change what a good army looks like?

Like, these are all things that allow for reasonable discussion, bringing in math and people's experience with units, about how to win with Necrons. There's a lot of room between "all we should talk about is what can win GTs" and "min units of Warriors work great... oh did I forget to mention my local group is super casual?". You only really have a problem when someone is insisting that units are good in a context where they're not, or when they're not clear about the context for their analysis or questions.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 15:25:45


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 Lance845 wrote:
So didn' they say that the necron dex was going to be the most drastic change thus far?

It doesn't look like it. We gained a new kind of warscythe (I think?) and crypteks gained the canoptek cloak.

Stratagems are the only fix to off world deepstrike/deployment from nightscythes and monoliths. Preatorians still don't have the dynasty keyword so they miss out on pretty much every stratagem and code. Flayed ones still have a complete gak weapon with no ap. RPs are the same.

All the problems still exist. Some even got worse.

What problems got worse?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also everyone needs to quit whining that Flayed Ones have no AP.

That. Is. Not. Their. Job.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 15:27:25


Post by: Odrankt


Requizen wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
That's not what's being discussed, though. Doing well when everyone is just playing whatever and going to have a good time - that doesn't matter, since you can't talk about that from a tactical perspective. If you're going to discuss competition and tournament play, the only thing worth discussing is how it competes against top level lists. I can throw random models in my bag and beat a player who just brought nothing but Tactical Marines "because he thinks it's cool", but you have to actually try to do good against things like Eldar/Ynnari, Imperial soup, or any of the other meta builds. And that's what needs to be discussed.


I was only giving insight that everyones Meta is different meaning everyone brings different lists to accommodate to their Meta. E.g. Therions Meta looks more "spam and soup" orientatied while my Meta is more "bring what you like".


That's true, and you should cater a bit to your meta, but when talking Tactica at large, you have to discuss "The" Meta (i.e. what is winning GTs), which is largely Spam and Soup.


My Meta has changed bit though if I am being honest. It is a lot more competitive since the new year as a lot of people got new armies for Christmas and what not. A lot of the newbs that started 8th all asked the ETC and Ireland players what they should buy and how to make their lists "unkillable". As of the last tournament the top 10 lists included - 3 Mortarion + Magus w/ Poxwalkers and Cultists, 2 IG soups, 3 Eldar/Ynnari soups with D.reapers, shining Spears spam and 2 lists that mainly ran Tank Commanders, Guards men's and Tarox Prime spam.

I think that when we are talking about "The" Meta though it should be more clear . Otherwise we are going to have "my Meta" vs "your Meta" situations which doesn't benefit this thread much.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 15:28:08


Post by: Klowny


Requizen wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
 Therion wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
Those lists perform well in your meta?

Yes I agree Necrons would struggle against that but holy hell my marines would 20-0 every. Single. One of them. Really odd you have such a hordey spam meta.

Im glad I don’t have to worry about that


Just stop man. You're embarassing yourself now. Just put your money where your mouth is and post your list. There's some brutally top tier lists there that nearly cannot lose more than marginally like the Poxwalkers, and you come off here from your non-competitive local store meta saying your Space Marines would 20-0 them all. Hilarious really. This is what message boards are good for. Comedy.



So much salt

You should realise every Meta is different. While yours seems to run soup and spam a lot of other places don't. My Meta for example is full of people who run what they like. I only see soups and spams when Team Ireland and Northern Ireland players are participating in tournaments or practicing against each other at my local club.

If a tournament in my area has 60ish people playing then it's usually 6-8 people bring spam and soup and the other 52-4 people just do "rule of cool" and play to have a great time.


That's not what's being discussed, though. Doing well when everyone is just playing whatever and going to have a good time - that doesn't matter, since you can't talk about that from a tactical perspective. If you're going to discuss competition and tournament play, the only thing worth discussing is how it competes against top level lists. I can throw random models in my bag and beat a player who just brought nothing but Tactical Marines "because he thinks it's cool", but you have to actually try to do good against things like Eldar/Ynnari, Imperial soup, or any of the other meta builds. And that's what needs to be discussed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Klowny wrote:


Ive personally minced poxerwalker hordes, sure there is a HUGE poxwalker horde to deal with at the end, but its not really that threatening IMO. If youve got the dakka, youve got the answer.


How large? Because the game is based around Objectives 90% of the time, not just Kill Points, and a huge, nigh-unkillable ObSec blob wins games because you can't get them off of objective markers.


I think it took me about 3 turns to clear everything that wasnt poxwalkers, it was basically morty, some DS termies, FBD's PBC' etc, 20 poxwalkers and like 80 cultists?

One fireraptor oneshot morty T1, the other a tank, then spent the next turn finishing off the tanks and PBC. Twas Dawn of War so my aggressors popped out top of t2, but I body blocked them with the tank for alot of LoS blocking. I spend turn 3 killing the cultists and the like, i wanted that horde nice at max size (was gauging the firepower of my list for a team tournament).

Needless to say it wasnt long before those poor poxwalkers were gone multiple damage weapons on the fire raptors, a dakka repulsor and double tapping aggressors with full rerolls is not scared of a horde of any kind.

This has derailed.

My point was, yes necrons may struggle against horde lists, but so do all the elite armies to certain extents. 210 ork boys won a 86 person tournament last year because noone expected a horde on that level, theres a ATC team list that has 300 cultists and 300 poxwalkers in it.

If you have spam in any extreme they are designed to be anti-meta and do well against a certain % of lists due to how awkward they are to face.

And yeah, if your meta is wholly ridiculous spam lists like posted above, then necrons may struggle, but if you have a meta thats 80% marines, eldar, custodes etc, your going to have a whale of a time.

Conversley, if you build a necron list that can go hard against hordes like that, youre stuffed if you go against more elite lists that you just aren't kitted out to fight.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 15:32:12


Post by: Shuddl


I played my first game with the new codex vs Alaitoc Eldar (tournament list with a lot of Dark Reapers) last night, and wanted to share what I found out, with a quick ranking of the new stuff.
I ran two outrider, a Sautekh / Nephrekh soup for maximum mobility.

Dynasty codes:

1. Nephrekh
Worked great on my Wraiths which gave them a 18” movement plus possible charge due to adaptive subroutines. Also 16” move on scarabs/Cloaktek is very handy. The star was the deepstrike stratagem for my destroyers of course, which makes up for their main weakness: Getting shot down before doing anything.

2.Sautekh
My Tesseract Ark and Tomb Sentinel benefited the most as moving and shooting without penalties was ace. Also the possibility to advance Gauss Immortals and still shoot was nice. I took the Dynasty Warlord Trait which resulted in two extra CP -very cool.


Units:

1. Destroyers (4reg and 1 heavy)
The MVPs. I deepstriked them in turn one, and they went to town! They crippled a hemlock wraithfighter (he only survived because my opponent rolled 3 sixes for saves) in the first turn, and vaporized a unit of six Wraithguard in the second -courtesy of the Extermination Protocols. They finally live up to their name! I'm definitely running two full units in the future.

2. Cloaktek
I ran two (my only HQs), and due to their 10”+w6” and 16” movement they could always be where they where needed the most. They where healing vehicles, and boosting RP all over the place, which made my whole Army much more resilient. Autoinclude.

3. Wraiths (6 with claws)
My opponent got the first turn, and proceeded to shoot everything he had on my poor bugs. To make matters worse he enchanted them with two powers which gave a -1 on invuls, and allowed him to reroll woundrolls for shots targeting them. By sheer luck one Wraith survived with one wound remaining. This alone made them almost worthwhile since the rest of my army was basically untouched. I had a Cloaktek nearby and used the repair subroutines which saw 3 Wraiths get back up. I then used them in my turn to basically move back over half the board and wreck the faces of a group of Fireraptors and an Exarch who deepstriked into my deployment zone. Although they couldt really show what they should be capable of i was quite satisfied.

4. Scarabs
My secret match winners. Super fast with Nephrekh, they constantly where getting objectives, harassing scouts and denied deepstrikes. The nerfed 4+ to hit didnt bother me at all.

Honorable mention:
Tomb Sentinel
Had only room for one, but with the Sauthekh code he managed to single handedly destroy a wave serpent and kill a farseer on bike. My second one is getting ready...


Stratagems:

1. Extermination Protocols
Super powerful. I would say already one of the most powerful strats we have. Probably won me the game.

2. Translocation Crypt
Nothing really to say about this. Makes Nephrekh almost mandatory.

2. Adaptive Subroutines
The increased threatrange for the wraiths is phenomenal, making it very possible that they are in youre opponents face turn one.



I loved the high mobility of my army, and I didnt even bring Tomb Blades. The Immortals where the only unit with a move characteristic below 10”. This enabled me to shift my forces very quickly and i could adapt to all kinds of shenanigans my opponent threw at me, while constantly replenishing my ranks. After Round 3 I had two thirds of his Army destroyed or rendered useless, while I had lost a unit of scarabs the Tomb Sentinel and most of my wraiths.
Overall a good start, looking forward to testing the c'tans and TB next time.
Oh, and I definitely need more CP.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 15:34:08


Post by: Zimko


 Klowny wrote:

Spoiler:
Therion wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
Those lists perform well in your meta?

Yes I agree Necrons would struggle against that but holy hell my marines would 20-0 every. Single. One of them. Really odd you have such a hordey spam meta.

Im glad I don’t have to worry about that


Just stop man. You're embarassing yourself now. Just put your money where your mouth is and post your list. There's some brutally top tier lists there that nearly cannot lose more than marginally like the Poxwalkers, and you come off here from your non-competitive local store meta saying your Space Marines would 20-0 them all. Hilarious really. This is what message boards are good for. Comedy.









Easy

Gman
2x fire raptors
repulsor full of aggressors
tiggy
scouts


Zimko wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
Those lists perform well in your meta?

Yes I agree Necrons would struggle against that but holy hell my marines would 20-0 every. Single. One of them. Really odd you have such a hordey spam meta.

Im glad I don’t have to worry about that


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Most of those lists have like 2 units that can do some damage, kill the bikes, or the death company, or the oblits and those armies kill like 1 Unit a turn, with all the rest of the shooting. Slaneesh cultists are different.

Also, yeah in a tournament you are going to get a bad matchup, and if we can’t deal with chaff that well then maybe that’s our weakness. A triple superheavy is the other end of the spectrum but again, they don’t win tournaments (at least not around here).

What has been shown are two extreme examples, super hordey and super elite, were in the middle and have tools against everything.


those bikes have character protection. The death company will deep strike and have 3d6 charge. the oblits will also deep strike and poxwalkers will fill the board, taking all the objectives (that's a poxwalker apocolypse list. For every cultist you kill, they get a poxwalker, and the poxwalkers are untargetable.) and the poxwalkers will become a threat with all those character buffs.

You're dismissing these lists as if they're easy because you personally haven't seen them win anything. But they're a real threat.


I know the bikes have character protection, but they have to break sometime, its kinda hard to win a fight against aggressors with VoT and null zone up.... but i know what you are saying, they are a threat, im not denying it. All im saying is those lists hemorage KP, to the point that even if the bikes managed to kill a few units, once their gone its very easy to kill everything else.

Ive seen 3d6 +1 double bloodletter bombs fail with skarbrand behind them... and auspex scan would deny them the charge if they want to survive.

Oblits are scary, but again, they get one round of shooting off, can they kill 2 fire raptors with -1/2 to hit? Doubt they have that much dakka.

Ive personally minced poxerwalker hordes, sure there is a HUGE poxwalker horde to deal with at the end, but its not really that threatening IMO. If youve got the dakka, youve got the answer.



I think we're losing perspective here. This is a Necron thread and I don't think Necrons have the ability to take on such lists. Is your argument that such lists are null and void because you can come up with a space marine list that beats them? Cause I still see these lists all the time.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 15:36:17


Post by: Galef


Requizen wrote:
I don't think that works the way you think it does. You have to pile in to the closest target, but you don't have to opt to pile in. You can remain stationary, and then on top of that, just walk out of combat the next turn because it's 8th.

Indeed you are correct that pile-in is optional. Certainly a major reason I don' play competitively anymore. That really seems broken that large infantry blobs cannot be dealt with other than killing them outright.

-


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 15:50:21


Post by: Therion


 Zimko wrote:
 Klowny wrote:

Spoiler:
Therion wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
Those lists perform well in your meta?

Yes I agree Necrons would struggle against that but holy hell my marines would 20-0 every. Single. One of them. Really odd you have such a hordey spam meta.

Im glad I don’t have to worry about that


Just stop man. You're embarassing yourself now. Just put your money where your mouth is and post your list. There's some brutally top tier lists there that nearly cannot lose more than marginally like the Poxwalkers, and you come off here from your non-competitive local store meta saying your Space Marines would 20-0 them all. Hilarious really. This is what message boards are good for. Comedy.









Easy

Gman
2x fire raptors
repulsor full of aggressors
tiggy
scouts


Zimko wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
Those lists perform well in your meta?

Yes I agree Necrons would struggle against that but holy hell my marines would 20-0 every. Single. One of them. Really odd you have such a hordey spam meta.

Im glad I don’t have to worry about that


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Most of those lists have like 2 units that can do some damage, kill the bikes, or the death company, or the oblits and those armies kill like 1 Unit a turn, with all the rest of the shooting. Slaneesh cultists are different.

Also, yeah in a tournament you are going to get a bad matchup, and if we can’t deal with chaff that well then maybe that’s our weakness. A triple superheavy is the other end of the spectrum but again, they don’t win tournaments (at least not around here).

What has been shown are two extreme examples, super hordey and super elite, were in the middle and have tools against everything.


those bikes have character protection. The death company will deep strike and have 3d6 charge. the oblits will also deep strike and poxwalkers will fill the board, taking all the objectives (that's a poxwalker apocolypse list. For every cultist you kill, they get a poxwalker, and the poxwalkers are untargetable.) and the poxwalkers will become a threat with all those character buffs.

You're dismissing these lists as if they're easy because you personally haven't seen them win anything. But they're a real threat.


I know the bikes have character protection, but they have to break sometime, its kinda hard to win a fight against aggressors with VoT and null zone up.... but i know what you are saying, they are a threat, im not denying it. All im saying is those lists hemorage KP, to the point that even if the bikes managed to kill a few units, once their gone its very easy to kill everything else.

Ive seen 3d6 +1 double bloodletter bombs fail with skarbrand behind them... and auspex scan would deny them the charge if they want to survive.

Oblits are scary, but again, they get one round of shooting off, can they kill 2 fire raptors with -1/2 to hit? Doubt they have that much dakka.

Ive personally minced poxerwalker hordes, sure there is a HUGE poxwalker horde to deal with at the end, but its not really that threatening IMO. If youve got the dakka, youve got the answer.



I think we're losing perspective here. This is a Necron thread and I don't think Necrons have the ability to take on such lists. Is your argument that such lists are null and void because you can come up with a space marine list that beats them? Cause I still see these lists all the time.


That list he posted is a blast from the past 2017 tournament list that wins 20-0 as much as it loses 20-0, making it a non-starter. But you're absolutely right, the sequence of events in the conversation went bizarrely like this:

Statement: Necrons don't need to worry about GEQ because people don't play GEQ at tournaments
Reply: Here's many different take on all comers lists with 200 ish models that are top tier ETC quality armies (some played by ETC regulars by the way)
Anecdotal Retort: Ha! I have a Space Marine list in my back pocket that can kill hordes!

I didn't reply because a fish like that doesn't really deserve more attention.

Conclusion: Necrons do in fact need to worry about hordes, and they need to worry about super-heavy spam, and they need to worry about 8 deep striking Hive Tyrants, 8 Dark Talons, 240 Cultists turning into Poxwalkers, Imperial superhero spams, deep strike bombs and what not. They need to worry about everything, just like everyone else.

Odrankt wrote:
You should realise every Meta is different


Hey, I never said I don't know that. The game looks different in the ITC or ETC or rulebook rule sets (Guys here talk about some list leaking kill points when its for a tournament that uses KP only in 2 out of 5 missions). I took issue with sweeping statements that cross all borders and boundaries and are blatantly untrue. We have a down under hero saying here he can sweep a top tier field with basically a Stormraven spam from 2017, when he doesn't even know the missions or the rule set, and clearly doesn't understand the power or function of any of the lists posted. Me not understanding his meta has nothing to do with his comments.






Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 15:57:57


Post by: Lothmar


Ok just noticed and very happy they changed Crypteks technomancy so he can improve RP for all dynasty necrons instead of just infantry.

This will make keeping one near such units as TB or even Wraith/canoptek that can get it with a strat very useful.

Will definitely have to consider my tactics a little more carefully.


Shame they didn't make the Lords ability function similiarly. Without that infantry restriction it would be amazing for artillery.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 15:59:19


Post by: arhurt


Anyone notice that there is nothing that restricts RP from going below 4+ on the beta codex?

You can potentially bring RP to a +3 using a cryptek and the Orb of Eternity. Re-rolling 1's with the strat.

Than could be devastating on a valuable unit like Destroyers, Lychguard or Wraiths.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 16:17:09


Post by: Red Corsair


Requizen wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
That's not what's being discussed, though. Doing well when everyone is just playing whatever and going to have a good time - that doesn't matter, since you can't talk about that from a tactical perspective. If you're going to discuss competition and tournament play, the only thing worth discussing is how it competes against top level lists. I can throw random models in my bag and beat a player who just brought nothing but Tactical Marines "because he thinks it's cool", but you have to actually try to do good against things like Eldar/Ynnari, Imperial soup, or any of the other meta builds. And that's what needs to be discussed.


I was only giving insight that everyones Meta is different meaning everyone brings different lists to accommodate to their Meta. E.g. Therions Meta looks more "spam and soup" orientatied while my Meta is more "bring what you like".


That's true, and you should cater a bit to your meta, but when talking Tactica at large, you have to discuss "The" Meta (i.e. what is winning GTs), which is largely Spam and Soup.


Which is pointless. Those GT's are all garbage lol. Half the player packets are full of house ruled or bogus callings or they have patched the missions to oblivion. On top of that, those games get a max of 2 turns in. GEQ are running amuck currently BECAUSE so many suckers cater to that environment.

Currently players in those environments know exactly how much time a game has, exactly how the missions will be scored and laughably use set objective placement. One of the MOST tactical elements in the game, and these mega events removed it. It;s a farce, all you need to do currently is hop to the codex that gets the most bodies for the cheapest cost and has a reliable way to advance deploy.

I have played those lists in pick up games where I can't be slow played using random book missions and utterly removed them. Guardsmen are always good for screening, but currently hordes are ruining events. That needs to be separated here. Playing ITC is not playing 40k. It's like Pathfinder, similar, but modified heavily. They tell you where objectives are, the game will last 6 turn (which is a joke when they can't make it to 3) and on top of that they home brew mission objectives entirely. The reaper is the most awful designed objective I have ever seen for example. Writing a mission where taking a heavy weapon team circumvents the point? Play testers eh?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Galef wrote:
Requizen wrote:
I don't think that works the way you think it does. You have to pile in to the closest target, but you don't have to opt to pile in. You can remain stationary, and then on top of that, just walk out of combat the next turn because it's 8th.

Indeed you are correct that pile-in is optional. Certainly a major reason I don' play competitively anymore. That really seems broken that large infantry blobs cannot be dealt with other than killing them outright.

-


Indeed, but missions and format are also major factors. But apparently we should beat are heads against a brick wall all day in here looking for a way to remove 200 GEQ in a 2-3 turn game... I'll save everyone some time, this book doesn't have a way to do that, on top of that, it forfeits board control every game. This faction, like many others cannot beat that format. So we should move on because the solution isn't going to magically appear.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 16:40:38


Post by: Therion


You seem to have a lot of rage towards the ITC format despite its obvious popularity in the US.

That said, where I play in Europe we don’t use ITC for anything (We use rulebook, Chapter Approved, Beta rules and the ETC FAQ). We use Eternal War and Maelstrom missions simultaneously (2 sets of objectives, Eternal War and the Tactical Objectives). Our tournaments have more time allocated per game than in the US and 95% are played to natural completion.

I’m frankly amused by your hostility. All I did was point out an obvious flaw in the Necron strengths and weaknesses -analysis. The reality is that hordes exist and they are very competitive and flexible. Everyone could’ve just been polite and say that my concerns about Necrons don’t apply to them because their meta is different, but instead people went to war against the standard tournament meta like it’s my fault personally that competitive people like to push their army lists to the extreme limits.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 16:42:53


Post by: BlueBeetle


 Therion wrote:
 Klowny wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
I really think folks are getting carried away with the guardsmen talk. There a screen, mortars and las guns will not be killing any significant portion of our army. Luckily we have units that pull double duty. DDA, which are all around pretty amazing I'd say. Plus wraiths can either float right past the screen or at worst in a long deployment, dig in with them, then in the next turn move on.

At this point though. I think there needs to be less theory hammer and more play testing. For example I am thinking our best builds won't bother with troops at all. You only need CP's IMHO for reserving destroyers, then using extermination protocols, and maybe 1 CP for the Canoptek advance and charge. I'd say 5-6 CP's is probably fine. Trying to farm CP's just seems to require taking less efficient units which then require more units and CP's to fix so why bother, just take the things that work already IMO.

Of course maybe it will turn out that our troops will pull more weight then we are guessing, but they haven't changed much from the index so I am guessing it's a safe assumption that our troops are still kind of matchup dependent.


I agree wholeheartedly with this. GEQ will not be fielded en mass, besides a few unique (rare) builds. Im not overly scared of them, especially when 50% of tesla immortals shots proc an extra 2 hits and hit on 2+ rr'ing 1's......, 10 Timmortals will put out a prodigious amount of firepower. A vault killing 1/3 of a GEQ blob from a single power alone, yet the 20 s7 tesla that can proc on 5's..... with that same GEQ blob unable to do anything to T7 28w. I dont know everyone else's meta but here on the west coast of Australia its a lot more elite, there have been a few select cases where a horde has done really well, but for the most part huge hordes are dying out due to the large number of things that can mince them.


This is what's misleading about tactica discussions. People who have absolutely zero understanding of the competitive meta are posting sweeping statements about what will or will not be fielded.

So, I'm attending a 5 game GT this weekend with my Imperials, here's a few lists for you to think about (Tournament lists went public two days before the event begins).

Spoiler:

== Brigade Detachment, Astra Militarum, CATACHAN ==
HQ1: Straken (75) [75]
HQ2: Company Commander (30), Power Sword (4) [34]
HQ3: Primaris Psyker (46), Psychic Maelstrom, Darkshroud [46]
Troop1: Infantry Squad (40), Mortar (5), Chainsword (0) [45]
Troop2: Infantry Squad (40), Mortar (5), Chainsword (0) [45]
Troop3: Infantry Squad (40), Mortar (5), Chainsword (0) [45]
Troop4: Infantry Squad (40), Flamer (7), Chainsword (0) [47]
Troop5: Infantry Squad (40), Flamer (7), Chainsword (0) [47]
Troop6: Infantry Squad (40), Flamer (7), Chainsword (0) [47]
Elite1: Ministorum Priest (35) [35]
Elite2: Platoon Commander (20), Warlord, Grand Strategist, Kurov's Aquila [20]
Elite3: Harker (50) [50]
Fast1: Scout Sentinel (35), Heavy Flamer (17) [52]
Fast2: Scout Sentinel (35), Heavy Flamer (17) [52]
Fast3: Hellhound (93), Heavy Flamer (17) [110]
Heavy1: Heavy Weapons Team (18), 3x Mortar (15) [33]
Heavy2: Heavy Weapons Team (18), 3x Mortar (15) [33]
Heavy3: Heavy Weapons Team (18), 3x Mortar (15) [33]
== Supreme Command Detachment, Adeptus Custodes ==
HQ4: Shield-Captain on Dawneagle (150), Hurricane Bolter (10), Misericordia (4) [164]
HQ5: Shield-Captain on Dawneagle (150), Hurricane Bolter (10), Misericordia (4) [164]
HQ6: Shield-Captain on Dawneagle (150), Hurricane Bolter (10), Misericordia (4) [164]
== Battallion Detachment, Blood Angels ==
HQ7: Captain (74), Jump Pack (19), Thunder Hammer (21), Mastercraft Bolter (3) [117]
HQ8: Captain (74), Jump Pack (19), Thunder Hammer (21), Mastercraft Bolter (3) [117]
Troop7: Scouts (55) [55]
Troop8: Scouts (55) [55]
Troop9: Scouts (55) [55]
Elite4: 13 Death Company (221), Bolters & Chainswords (0), Jump Packs (39) [260]


Black Legion Battalion
HQ 1: Abaddon [240] Warlord
HQ 2: Exalted Champion (70) Power sword (4) Combi-Bolter (2) [76] (murder sword)
HQ 3: Sorcerer (90) force sword (8) Combi-Bolter (2) <Slaanesh> [100] (warptime. prescience)
Troop 1: 40 Cultists (160) 40 Autoguns (0) <Slaanesh> [160]
Troop 2: 40 Cultists (160) 40 Autoguns (0) <Slaanesh> [160]
Troop 3: 35 Cultists (140) 35 Autoguns (0) <Slaanesh> [140]
Troop 4: 35 Cultists (140) 35 Autoguns (0) <Slaanesh> [140]
Troop 5: 35 Cultists (140) 35 Autoguns (0) <Slaanesh> [140]
Death Guard Vanguard detachment
HQ 4: Typhus [175] (miasma of pestilence, Putrecent vitality)
Elite 1: Tallyman (55) Plasma pistol (7) [62]
Ellte 2: Noxious Blightbringer (58) Plasma pistol (7) [65]
Elite 3: Foul Blightspawn [77]
Troop 6: 20 Poxwalkers [120]
Troop 7: 16 Poxwalkers [96]
Black Legions Patrol Detachment
HQ 5: Fabilous Bile [109]
Troop 8: 35 Cultists (140) 35 Autoguns (0) <Slaanesh> [140]
Total: [2000]

Total Points: 2000
Command Points: 16
Cadian Brigade Detachment.
HQ1: Company Commander (30) chainsword (0) [30] WARLORD (grand strategist, kurov's aquila)
HQ2: Company Commander (30) chainsword (0) [30]
HQ3: Primaris Psyker [46] (psychic barrier, nightshroud)
Elite1: Platoon Commander (20) chainsword (0) bolt pistol (1) [21]
Elite2: Platoon Commander (20) chainsword (0) [20]
Elite3: Platoon Commander (20) chainsword (0) [20]
Troop1: Infantry Squad (40) chainsword (0) Plasma Gun (7) [47]
Troop2: Infantry Squad (40) chainsword (0) Plasma Gun (7) [47]
Troop3: Infantry Squad (40) chainsword (0) Mortar (5) [45]
Troop4: Infantry Squad (40) chainsword (0) Mortar (5) [45]
Troop5: Infantry Squad (40) chainsword (0) Mortar (5) [45]
Troop6: Infantry Squad (40) chainsword (0) Mortar (5) [45]
Fast1: Scout Sentinel (35) Autocannon (13) [48]
Fast2: Scout Sentinel (35) Autocannon (13) [48]
Fast3: Scout Sentinel (35) Autocannon (13) [48]
Heavy1: HWS (18), 3x Mortar (15) [33]
Heavy2: HWS (18), 3x Mortar (15) [33]
Heavy3: HWS (18), 3x Mortar (15) [33]
Custodes Supreme Command Detachment.
HQ4: Shield Commander on Dawneagle (150) Hurricane Bolter (10) [160]
HQ5: Shield Commander on Dawneagle (150) Hurricane Bolter (10) Misericordia (4) [164]
HQ6: Shield Commander on Dawneagle (150) Hurricane Bolter (10) Misericordia (4) [164]
Blood Angel Battalion Detachment.
HQ8: Captain with jump pack (93) Thunder Hammer (21) [114]
HQ9: Librarian with jump pack (112) force sword (8) [120] (unleash rage, wings of sangunius)
HQ10: Lemartes [129]
Troop7: Scouts (55) bolters (0) [55]
Troop8: Scouts (55) bolters (0) [55]
Troop9: Scouts (55) bolters (0) [55]
Elite4: 15 Death Company & Jump Packs (300) Bolters&Chainswords (0) [300]


Army: ORKS ORKS ORKS
Total CP: 8
Total points: 1995
Battalion Detachment <Goff>
HQ1: Ghazghkull Thraka [215] (WARLORD: Might is Right)
HQ2: Big Mek (55) Kustom Force Field (20) Big Choppa (7) [82] (Relic: Headwoppa’s Killchoppa)
HQ3: Big Mek (55) Kustom Force Field (20) [75]
Troop1: 30 Boyz (180) Boss Nob with Big Choppa (7) [187]
Troop2: 30 Boyz (180) Boss Nob with Big Choppa (7) [187]
Troop3: 30 Boyz (180) Boss Nob with Big Choppa (7) [187]
Troop4: 30 Boyz (180) Boss Nob with Big Choppa (7) [187]
Troop5: 27 Boyz (162) Boss Nob with Big Choppa (7) [169]
FA1: 30 Storm Boyz (240) Boss Nob with Big Choppa (7) [247]
Vanguard Detachment <Goff>
HQ3: Weirdboy [62] (Warpath)
Elites1: Painboy (40) Power Klaw (13) [53]
Elites2: Nob with Waaagh! Banner (75) Kustom Shoota (4) [79]
Elites3: Painboy (40) Power Klaw (13) [53]
Supreme Command Detachment <Goff>
HQ4: Weirdboy [62] (Da Jump)
HQ5: Weirdboy [62] (Da Jump)
HQ6: Boss Zagstrukk [88]

Army: Chaos Soup
Command Points: 9
Total Points: 1999
Battalion Detachment <Black Legion> [840 Points] (+3CP)
HQ1: 1 Abaddon the Despoiler - [240pts] WARLORD (+2CP) (First Among Traitors)
HQ2: 1 Sorcerer with jump pack (112), force sword (8) <Slaanesh> <Black Legion> - [120pts] (Prescience,
Warptime) [Eye of Night]
Troop1: 40 Chaos Cultists, autoguns (0) (160) <Slaanesh> <Black Legion> - [160pts]
Troop2: 40 Chaos Cultists, autoguns (0) (160) <Slaanesh> <Black Legion> - [160pts]
Troop3: 40 Chaos Cultists, autoguns (0) (160) <Slaanesh> <Black Legion> - [160pts]
Spearhead Detachment <Chaos Soup> [1159Pts] (+1CP)
HQ4: Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with wings (170) 2 malefic talons (10) - [180pts] (Gaze of Fate, Diabolical
Strength) <Thousand Sons>
HQ5: Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with wings (170) 2 malefic talons (10) - [180pts] (Infernal Gaze, Weaver of
Fates) <Thousand Sons>
Troop4: 40 Chaos Cultists, autopistol and brutal close combat weapon (0) (160) <Khorne> <Alpha Legion> -
[160pts]
Troop5: 3 Nurglings (54) <Nurgle> - [54pts]
HS1: 3 Obliterators <Slaanesh> <Black Legion> - [195pts]
HS2: 3 Obliterators <Slaanesh> <Black Legion> - [195pts]
HS3: 3 Obliterators <Slaanesh> <Black Legion> - [195pts]


I posted only some of the choice lists. Are you still prepared to say Necrons don't need to concern themselves about GEQ? It's one of the most laughable statements I've seen yet. The truth about the tournament game is that you need to prepare against everything, and mostly you can't, and you'd be happy to get some luck with your matchups. This same tournament has multiple triple superheavy lists too, which are quite the polar opposite. My list is an Imperial soup with Astra Militarum, Adeptus Custodes, Dark Angels, Sisters, and Assassins.

Spoiler:
== Battalion Detachment, Imperium ==
HQ1: Celestine (200), 2 Geminae Superia (50), Order of Our Martyred Lady [250]
HQ2: Sammael in Sableclaw (216), Dark Angels [216]
HQ3: Ravenwing Talonmaster (123), Twin Heavy Bolter (17), Twin Assault Cannon (44), Power Sword (4),
Dark Angels [188]
Elite1: Platoon Commander (20), Warlord, Grand Strategist, Kurov's Aquila, Vostroyan [20]
Elite2: Culexus Assassin (85), Officio Assassinorum [85]
Troop1: Scout Squad (55), Dark Angels [55]
Troop2: Scout Squad (55), Dark Angels [55]
Troop3: Scout Squad (55), Dark Angels [55]
Fast1: Seraphim Squad (55), 4 Inferno Pistols (36), Order of Our Martyred Lady [91]
Heavy1: Heavy Weapons Team (18), 3 Mortars (15), Vostroyan [33]
== Supreme Command Detachment, Adeptus Custodes ==
HQ4: Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike (150), Hurricane Bolter (10) [160]
HQ5: Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike (150), Hurricane Bolter (10) [160]
HQ6: Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike (150), Hurricane Bolter (10) [160]
== Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment, Astra Militarum, Vostroyan ==
LOW1: Shadowsword (390), 3 Twin Heavy Bolters (42), 2 Lascannons (40), Vostroyan [472]


You can stick your 10 Immortals where the sun doesn't shine with these lists.





This. I was going to say the same thing but as soon as I read his comment it kind of told me he was just playing for fun or the players at his shop just dont know how to make good list. I remain scared.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 16:57:01


Post by: Requizen


 Red Corsair wrote:


Which is pointless. Those GT's are all garbage lol. Half the player packets are full of house ruled or bogus callings or they have patched the missions to oblivion. On top of that, those games get a max of 2 turns in. GEQ are running amuck currently BECAUSE so many suckers cater to that environment.

Currently players in those environments know exactly how much time a game has, exactly how the missions will be scored and laughably use set objective placement. One of the MOST tactical elements in the game, and these mega events removed it. It;s a farce, all you need to do currently is hop to the codex that gets the most bodies for the cheapest cost and has a reliable way to advance deploy.

I have played those lists in pick up games where I can't be slow played using random book missions and utterly removed them. Guardsmen are always good for screening, but currently hordes are ruining events. That needs to be separated here. Playing ITC is not playing 40k. It's like Pathfinder, similar, but modified heavily. They tell you where objectives are, the game will last 6 turn (which is a joke when they can't make it to 3) and on top of that they home brew mission objectives entirely. The reaper is the most awful designed objective I have ever seen for example. Writing a mission where taking a heavy weapon team circumvents the point? Play testers eh?


Look dude, you might be a good player, but it's hard to take anyone seriously when you say things like "tournament lists are a joke, I can beat them all". Where are your GT victories? Got any podium finishes from 50-100+ person events? Me neither, but I'm not the one calling out the people who do crush tournaments on a consistent basis.

If you think the only reason people win events is because of slow play, you've never seriously competed at a top table.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 17:07:03


Post by: Da W


Nobody's talking about monoliths?
Monoliths won't be killed by GEQ. And they can beam out flayed ones in charge distance.
You still have enough points for DDA and other stuff that will bring down stuff that can hurt your monolith.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 17:16:30


Post by: Red Corsair


 Therion wrote:
You seem to have a lot of rage towards the ITC format despite its obvious popularity in the US.

That said, where I play in Europe we don’t use ITC for anything (We use rulebook, Chapter Approved, Beta rules and the ETC FAQ). We use Eternal War and Maelstrom missions simultaneously (2 sets of objectives, Eternal War and the Tactical Objectives). Our tournaments have more time allocated per game than in the US and 95% are played to natural completion.

I’m frankly amused by your hostility. All I did was point out an obvious flaw in the Necron strengths and weaknesses -analysis. The reality is that hordes exist and they are very competitive and flexible. Everyone could’ve just been polite and say that my concerns about Necrons don’t apply to them because their meta is different, but instead people went to war against the standard tournament meta like it’s my fault personally that competitive people like to push their army lists to the extreme limits.



Please don't start to assume my mental or emotional state. You just displayed some of the rudest behavior toward another poster within the past couple pages, I found that remarkable since we are discussing a game played with space skeletons.

I agree completely the Necrons have an obvious flaw based on deployment and a lack of screening, your not adding anything new when that was discussed several pages back lol. It;s also not ever going to magically change, so you either move on, and look for alternative ways to play and as said already, stop worring about GEQ. Or shelf/sell the army. Not everyone in here can afford to play multiple armies like you or I, or wants to, so maybe let them discuss things without labasting them about how some global meta is going to crush them lol.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 17:20:20


Post by: Lothmar


Da w - Even if it had QS (which it currently doesn't) i've had a monolith plinked down in a turn by single damage weapons. He looked me in the eyes the entire time and had his friend confirm the hits and wounds. *shivers*

/Sarc end

Hmm, wait~ did monolith go from 4+ to 3+ armor?

But yeah thankfully with the new strat I can either redeploy the mono with Deciever and then emergency port my guys out if they do kill it, or can drop it to get in a turn of fire and then emergency port in stuff when they do take it out, or port a unit from across the battlefield to the monolith with Dimensional Corridor. Will probably try it both ways.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 17:22:57


Post by: Red Corsair


Requizen wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:


Which is pointless. Those GT's are all garbage lol. Half the player packets are full of house ruled or bogus callings or they have patched the missions to oblivion. On top of that, those games get a max of 2 turns in. GEQ are running amuck currently BECAUSE so many suckers cater to that environment.

Currently players in those environments know exactly how much time a game has, exactly how the missions will be scored and laughably use set objective placement. One of the MOST tactical elements in the game, and these mega events removed it. It;s a farce, all you need to do currently is hop to the codex that gets the most bodies for the cheapest cost and has a reliable way to advance deploy.

I have played those lists in pick up games where I can't be slow played using random book missions and utterly removed them. Guardsmen are always good for screening, but currently hordes are ruining events. That needs to be separated here. Playing ITC is not playing 40k. It's like Pathfinder, similar, but modified heavily. They tell you where objectives are, the game will last 6 turn (which is a joke when they can't make it to 3) and on top of that they home brew mission objectives entirely. The reaper is the most awful designed objective I have ever seen for example. Writing a mission where taking a heavy weapon team circumvents the point? Play testers eh?


Look dude, you might be a good player, but it's hard to take anyone seriously when you say things like "tournament lists are a joke, I can beat them all". Where are your GT victories? Got any podium finishes from 50-100+ person events? Me neither, but I'm not the one calling out the people who do crush tournaments on a consistent basis.

If you think the only reason people win events is because of slow play, you've never seriously competed at a top table.


I didn't say I can beat them all. Where did I say that? I also never said slow play was the sole factor, so please stop trying to speak for me. Slow play is THE biggest talking point currently btw, it may not be the sole factor, but it's currently one of the biggest.

BTW the biggest tournament in the world just concluded a little over a month ago and GEQ were there in force but 2 made it to the top 8 and both were bizarre builds unlike what people are discussing. There was even a primaris blood angel list in the top 8 wrecking face.

Edit: I'll add, those players winning are very good because they are aware of the format and how to gain an edge. Your the one that seems to think that net lists are where the buck stops. I am telling you it stops where it does based on the format.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 17:23:00


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


The monolith was always 3+.
If you've been playing it as 4+, then you've been doing it wrong.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/15 17:24:43


Post by: Lothmar


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
The monolith was always 3+.
If you've been playing it as 4+, then you've been doing it wrong.


Well to be fair it's been like 6 months since i've played, I might just be missremembering stuff.