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Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/11 23:59:22


Post by: skoffs


I hope your Tomb World is woke, because it's
New codex time!

[Guess I better move this to the top of the post, as people keep missing it:
PLEASE POST LONG COMMENTS (LIKE LISTS OR BATTLE REPORTS) UNDER A SPOILER.
It will help keep the thread easier to read through for people who come here who are only interested in info about the new codex.]


Unit grading guide for new players
Spoiler:
A = borderline auto include
B = really good
C = can be situationally decent
D = generally not worth it
F = straight up bad

Imotekh : B (probably our best named HQ, with a great ability, and finally seems like he's cost appropriate!)
Zahndrekh : C (would be better if he didn't cost so much...)
Trazyn : D (his combat prowess actually improved but his ability is still bad in that you typically DON'T want your generic HQ to suddenly disappear to be replaced by him)
Anrakyr : C (our fight HQ. Only problem is there's no way to get him quickly into battle because he can't use any vehicles or even the Veil because he lacks a Dynasty)
*Kutlakh : C (not horrible but has kind of been outclassed now)
Obyron : C (his ghostwalk is useless without Zahndrekh, and Zahndrekh himself isn't that great, so...)
Orikan : C (still useful if you were taking CC infantry... but no one is taking CC infantry)
Szeras : B (the default HQ choice if you're taking an additional detachment that doesn't mesh with the rest of your army. Can buff troops from any Dynasty so pretty useful. Good gun, too)
*Toholk : D (Cloak-tek outclasses him now)

Command B. : B (with the right upgrades he can be great)
Overlord : A (cheapest MWBD generator available)
D. Lord : C (he's pretty good at fighting stuff, but his ability is almost useless)
Lord : B (better than Destroyer version because he buffs *all* infantry with reroll 1 to-wound, both in shooting and in CC)
Cloak-tek : B (zoomy repair guy)
Chrono-tek : B (he protec)

G. Immortals : B (get these guys in close to maximize efficiency)
T. Immortals : A (one of our best damage dealers if given MWBD)
Warriors : C (damage output average, too easy to counter. If you're going to take them take LOTS)
Ghost A. : C (only useful for Warrior blobs, but those aren't that great right now)

G. Tomb Blades : A (fast enough to get in close to get their rapid fire off, and have fly so don't need to worry about being tied up if charged)
T. Tomb Blades : B (stay back and fish for 6s, quick enough that they can kite and objective grab with ease)
P.B. Tomb Blades : B (cheapest way to run them. Not actually too bad for points efficiency)
Destroyers : A+ (the stars of the codex. Utterly lethal with their strat, but not a unit you're going to want to spam)
Scarabs : A+ (bubble wrap, objective grab, tarpit. Our all purpose unit. Every list will probably include some)
Wraiths : B (really good statline, decent at doing damage now, just a little pricey)
*Acanthrites : D (Wraiths and Destroyers are better in every way)
*To. Sentinel : B (great little surprise damage chuckers if taken in a Sautekh detachment)

Deathmarks : C (in general not so hot, but can actually be somewhat decent if taken in a Mephrit detachment with a Lord nearby)
Flayed Ones : D (deep strike into a 9" charge makes them too unreliable. May have some use as a distraction unit, but there's probably better ways to spend your points)
Scythe-guard : C (good at hurting things, bad at catching things to hurt)
Shield-guard : C (good at staying alive, but can't catch anything to tarpit)
Rod-Praets : D (Destroyers do their job better)
Void-Praets : C (lots of attacks and can act completely independent, but a little over priced and can't benefit from Dynasties)
HGC Stalker : C (if you're desperate to give stuff a 1s reroll to-hit they can be alright)
Heat Stalker : C (not completely useless in low point games.)
Part. Stalker : D (not really much use for it)
Deceiver : A (his redeploy ability is just too good.)
Night Br. : B (if you can find a way to get him into combat quickly it'll be worth it.)
*To. Stalker : D (other things perform better for cheaper.)

Spyder : C (not horrible. If you take it you'll primarily be doing so for its repair ability. Psychic defense as a somewhat useful secondary ability. Don't bother with Scarabs.)
H. Destroyers : C (if you want strong shooting on a budget, but generally DDAs do the job better.)
A. Barge : C (they're a little too steeply priced for what they do.)
Doomsday A. : A+ (our primary anti tank. You'll be seeing these in a lot of lists.)
Monolith : C (it doesn't suck but neither is it what anyone would consider "good".)
T. C'tan : B (actually somewhat decent if you can give it the double power personality.)
*Tess. Ark : B ((better than an A.Barge but not as good as a D.Ark.)
*Heat S. Pylon : B (expensive but can be quite painful.)
*Death S. Pylon : F (practically no use because other things do its job better.)
*Gauss S. Pylon : C (situationally useful but not really worth it.)

Doom S. : C (if taken in Sautekh they at least get to fire at full BS. The strat can be useful too. Just generally better things available.)
Night S. : D (too fragile to survive to the turn you want to disembark stuff. There are better ways to transport your guys around.)
*N. Shroud : F (other things do its job better.)

Obelisk : F (for only a little bit cheaper than a Vault you get something much less efficient. Only situationally useful.)
T. Vault : A (it's finally good! It's still expensive but it's actually worth its points this time in regards to damage output and survivability.)
*G. Pylon : B (good against other super heavies but not so much against most normal lists.)

*Tomb Citadel : F (don't even bother. Use the points on a Vault instead)


Artefact grading guide for new players
Spoiler:
[note Named characters cannot get Artefacts. 1st is free, 2nd costs 1CP, 3rd cost 2CP.]

- Nightmare Shroud: +1 save characteristic, enemies get -1 Ld within 6"
"C" Can lower saves for the Overlord to 2+, better choices available.

- Orb of Eternity: Replaces Res Orb. +1 to the result.
"B" Even if you spend 1CP to get this you still get a better result than from "Enhanced Reanimation Protocol" Stratagem that costs 2CP.

- Gauntlet of Conflagrator: One use only. 8" Pistol 1. Roll a D6 for each model in the target unit within 8". MW on each roll of 6.
"D" Much better choices available.

- Voidreaper: Replaces War/Voidscythe. Wounds on 2+ unless targeting vehicles, in which case it has S7. (AP -4, D3)
"B" Very good CC weapon, but do you want to be in CC?

- Veil of Darkness: Bearer and 1 dynasty infantry unit within 3" are removed and can deepstrike 9" away from enemy (unit must be within 6" of bearer)
"A" Maybe the best default Artifact available, gives much needed mobility, good on bubble wrapped characters like Lord or even a Cryptek if the Overlord has a Artifact.

- Lightning Field: 4++. Roll a D6 for enemy units within 1" of the bearer at the start of the fight phase. A MW on 4+
"C" Overlords have a 4++, Cryptek and Lords are really too weak for CC.
"A" The best upgrade for a CCB as it has no invulnerable save. CCB has the largest base so most likely to benefit from the "at the start of fight phase" MW on 4+ roll on all models within 1", its a flyer so flying over and positioning to maximize potential targets is advisable.

- Nanoscarab Casket. Replaces Phylactery. Regains D3 rather than 1, during both your and opponents turn. First time bearer is slain, on 4+ he is set back up at tend of phase, with D6 wounds remaining.
"A" Exellent choice for the (only unnamed character with Phylactery) Destroyer. Doubles the wound regeneration and gives a free enhanced "Resurrection Protocol" stratagem worth 1CP with D6 wounds instead of 1 wound. Can be resurrected a second time by "Resurrection Protocol" for 1CP.

- Sempiternal Weave. Infantry only. +1T and +1W.
"D" Much better choices available.

- Voltaic Staff. Mephrit Relic. Repalces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 3 S6 AP3 D2 / User AP2 D1
"B" Good against multi wound, a wound roll of 6+ gives extra MW
"A" Combined with Warlord trait "Merciless Tyrant" increases range by 6" to 18" and may target a Character! Especially good on a Destroyer Lord as he gets to re-roll to hit and to wound, increasing the chance of rolling 6+ wound for MW.

- Blood Scythe. Novokh Relic. Replaces War/Voidscythe. +2 S, AP-4, D2, +D3 Attacks.
"B" A good choice for a CC Character.

- Abyssal Staff. Sauthek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 1. Hits automatically, roll 3D6 if a unit is hit in the shooting phase: equal or greater than LD and unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. (AP-2 D1 in melee)
"C" Weak, should be called the Abysmal Staff. (Honestly should have been a D6 MW and then a "B").

- The Solar Staff. Nephrek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 6, S5 AP3 D1 / AP2 D1. If enemy infantry is hit in shooting phase,on 4+ they are blinded and cannot overwatch and suffers -1 to hit for rest of turn.
"B" Good for a shooty Character.

- Timesplinter Cloak. Nihilak Relic. Once per battle, re-roll a single hit roll, wound roll, or damage roll for the bearer. 5+++.
"A" Fantastic, essentially one Free reroll worth 1 CP and a FNP 5+++


Guide to C'tan Powers
Spoiler:
Since the release of the Necron codex, the C'tan Shards have been given new reality-warping powers at their disposal.
This guide will help you select the best powers for each opponent, as well as information on how to best use the selected powers.

First, let's re-cap what each power exactly does and rank them in order of usefulness and power. The powers will be ranked for both regular C'tan Shards and the Tesseract Vault. Feel free to disagree and let me know why!

Anti-Matter Meteor

Pick the closest visible enemy unit. 24". Roll a single D6, on a 2+ that target suffers D3 mortal wounds. On a roll of a 6+, the target suffers D6 mortal wounds.
The Vault does D6 mortal wounds on a roll of a 5+.


Regular: A
Vault: B

The bread&butter of the C'tan powers, this power is ranked A because of its reliability. Other powers require the enemy to be at a specific range or have a specific amount of models/wounds to be effective. Meteor will always do it's job no matter what enemy.
There is one catch though; the fact that it always hits the closest enemy model. This means it could be wasted on enemy chaff units. Be sure to position your C'tan properly so the Meteor hits something worthwhile!
As for Meteor on the Vault, it maintains pretty much the same function, with a somewhat higher chance of getting D6 mortal wounds. But you pick Meteor for its reliability, not because you are feeling lucky for a 5+ roll. (unless you ARE feelin' lucky....)

Time's Arrow
Pick an enemy unit within 18" and visible to the C'tan. If you roll higher than the maximum wound characteristic of the UNIT, a single model is slain. The Vault requires you to roll equal instead of higher to the amount of maximum wounds the unit has. A roll of a 1 always fails.

Regular: B
Vault: A

The C'tans sniping ability. While it's range is on the short-side, it can be extremely useful to pick off low-wound characters to disrupt your opponent strategy. However, the fact that you need to roll HIGHER than the maximum wounds of the unit makes it quite unreliable on anything with more than three wounds.
Also note that it's the highest maximum wound characteristic of the UNIT. That there darn Dark Reaper squad with a 2 wound Exarch? It will require a 3+ for Time's Arrow to work.
The Vault significantly increases the chance of the Arrow to succeed, making it an excellent power for them.
It is also a great power to pick up against powerful multi-wound units, like Custodes, Wraithguard etc.
Also note; a model is SLAIN by Time's Arrow. Not even FNP saves can be taken against this.

Sky of the Falling Stars (sky)

Select three enemy units within 18" of the C'tan. Roll a D6 for each unit. The Vault subtracts one from this roll. If you roll lower than the amount of models in the unit, it takes D3 mortal wounds.
A roll of a 6 always fails.


Regular: A
Vault: C

An excellent ability that let's you deal out multiple mortal wounds to multiple targets! What's not to love? As long as the unit has 6 or more models, it has 5/6th chance to do it's job. This is why I ranked it quite low on the Vault; the Vault doesn't improve the ability by that much.
There is one big catch; as the game goes on and enemy units are down to a few models per unit, this power will start to lose it's effect. The Vault will be able to dish out wounds with it for a bit longer, but it's main power is the first few turns against medium to large enemy units.

Cosmic Fire

Roll a D6 for each enemy unit that is within 9" of the C'tan. On a 4+, that unit suffer D3 mortal wounds. The Vault wounds units on a 3+.

Regular: B
Vault: A

This ability has the potential to deal the most mortal wounds out of all the powers, if you can get the C'tan close enough. This can make it somewhat situational: In my opinion, you shouldn't suicide your C'tan Shard in unless there is another dangerous unit that your opponents needs to focus, or the C'tan itself is the distraction for your other powerful units. But, keep in mind; a C'tan pretty much always wants to get close. All but the Vault are amazing in melee and, they explode on a 4+.
This ability is ranked A on the Vault not only because it greatly increases the reliability of the power, but also due to its enormous size which will let you hit a lot more enemy units with Cosmic Fire.

Seismic Assault
Select a visible enemy unit within 24" of the C'tan. Roll a D6 for each model in that unit; on a 6+ that unit suffers a mortal wound. The Vault deals mortal wounds on a 5+ per model instead.

Regular:C
Vault: B

The ability speaks for itself; its anti-horde. As soon as a mob of Ork boyz or Genestealers appear on the table, this ability will go up to rank A. I remember somewhere in a Necron guide that Seismic Assault will do more mortal wounds on average than Meteor if the enemy unit has 11 or more models in it. But this was before the Meteor did D6 wounds on a 6+.

Trans dimensional Thunderbolt

Pick a visible enemy unit within 24" of the C'tan, other than a <10 wound character. Roll a D6; a on 4+ (3+ for Vault) that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. Then, roll a D6 for each other enemy unit within 3" of the previously struck unit. On a 4+ that unit suffer one mortal wound.

Regular: B
Vault: C

I'm not to sure on this one. On one hand it seems like an inferior version of Meteor, but on the other hand you can freely pick your target without caring about their model size or wounds. The 'AoE' effect of it depends on how tightly packed your enemy units are and how big the unit is you are targeting. A big blob of small units or a large monster will cover a large area, thus resulting in a more targets getting hit by the AoE effect.

........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


Alrighty, that's the basics covered. Now let's go over on when to pick each power depending on the situation.

keep in mind You pick your C'tan powers right before the first unit is deployed. That means that stuff like enemy army roster, terrain, deployment zone/type etc. can all be taken into consideration when picking the powers for your C'tan.

So, let's go over a couple of scenarios?

Can your C'tan close the distance quickly either via Deceiver's Grand Illusion, T. C'tan 12" advance or some other way?

Regular: Cosmic Fire, Sky of the Falling Stars/Meteor
Vault: Cosmic Fire, Meteor, Time's Arrow, Thunderbolt

Does your opponents army have 2-3 wound models or important 3-4 wound characters?

Regular: Arrow, Meteor
Vault: Arrow, Meteor, Sky, Thunderbolt

Does your opponent have a large blob(s) of infantry?

Regular: Seismic Assault, Meteor
Vault: Seismic Assault, Thunderbolt, Sky, Time's Arrow

Does your opponent have MSU or simply a large amount of infantry units?

Regular: Sky, Meteor
Vault: Sky, Meteor, Thunderbolt, Cosmic Fire

..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


Next up, I wanted to talk about the order in which the Vault can best use his powers, depending on the targets he is facing.

Horde, buffed by a FNP character

Arrow -> Seismic Assault -> Thunderbolt

Time's arrow on whatever is giving the horde FNP (Ork painboy, Deathguard plague surgeon) to make sure your mortal wounds won't get saved. Then, follow up by Seismic assault and lastly Thunderbolt. You want as many models in the horde as possible for Seismic Assault, hence why you do that before Thunderbolt. And lastly, the horde probably covers quite a lot of ground (maybe it's konga-lined to protect charges) this will let Thunderbolt's AoE effect hit a lot of targets.

Primaris marine squads, Custodes etc

Sky -> Arrow -> Meteor

This is a tough one; one the one hand you want to start with Sky, since the squads still have all the models thus making it most likely to go off. However, if you only wound a model with Sky, the 'slain' effect from Arrow is wasted on a wounded model.

.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Lastly, let's go over the two stratagems the C'tan Shards can use.

Wrath of the C'tan, 2 CP

Use this power after a C'tan Shard has used a power. Roll a D6; the C'tan Shard immediately uses the rolled uses that power, even if he has used it before.

Oef, this is a tough one. A random power for two whole CP? I'd definitely only use this if you have a Vault. And even then, you have to make sure as many of the 'optimal' conditions for each power are available. So;
-Is the Vault 9" close to several enemy units?
-are there 3 enemy units with 5 or more models in there?
-Is there a unit with 11 or more models in it nearby?
-Is there a 2-4 wound model that is worthwhile nearby?

Have by some miracle all these conditions been met? Sure, go ahead and use this stratagem.....

Cosmic Powers

Use this stratagem at the start of your turn. Select a C'tan Shard; replace one of his powers with a new C'tan power for the rest of the game.

Interesting. This gives us a way to be flexible with the situational powers. For instance, if there are no more enemy 5-6 model infantry units left, you might want to replace Sky. Or have the enemy hordes been dealt with? Perhaps you can replace Seismic Assault. I would however only recommend this on Vaults or T. C'tan with 2 powers. Regular C'tan usually have either Meteor or Thunderbolt and can only cast one power anyway.
There is also another use. Say you didn't pick Cosmic Fire, but for some reason your C'tan got close enough to your opponents army and it would have been perfect if you gave him Cosmic Fire at the start! Well now you can give that to him. Just keep in mind that it's at the START of your turn. If you have to rely on a high advance roll in order to get into a nice position for Cosmic Fire, it might not work out as you have hoped!



NOTE: Turns out the leaked beta codex info was identical to the final codex info (which is kind of strange, as there's a bunch of things that really should have been changed before finalizing, but that's a discussion for a different thread).


Here's a TL;DR of the contents-

Pointcosts (index price difference in parentheses):
Spoiler:
Anrakyr the Traveller - 167
Illuminor Szeras - 143
Imotekh the Stormlord - 200 (-28)
Nemesor Zahndrekh - 180
Orikan the Diviner - 115 (-28)
Trazyn the Infinite - 100 (-39)
Vargard Obyron - 140 (-11)

Catacomb Command Barge - 138
Cryptek - 70 (-16)
Destroyer Lord - 110 (-14)
Lord - 73
Overlord - 84 (-17)

Ghost Ark - 160 (-10)

Doom Scythe - 205 (-15)
Night Scythe - 160 (-14)

Necron Warriors - 12
Necron Immortals - 8/17

Deathmarks - 19 (-1)
Flayed Ones - 17 pt (-4)
Lychguard - 19
Triarch Praetorians - 22 (-3)
Triarch Stalker - 117
C'tan Shard of the Deceiver - 225
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer - 210 (-20)

Canoptek Scarabs - 13
Canoptek Wraiths - 55 (+17)
Destroyers - 30 (-13)
Tomb Blades - 14 (-10)

Annihilation Barge - 133
Canoptek Spyders - 65 (-11)
Doomsday Ark - 193 (-10)
Heavy Destroyers - 30 (-13)
Monolith - 381
Transcendent C'tan - 225 (-7)

Obelisk - 426
Tesseract Vault - 496


Death ray - 0
Doomsday cannon - 0
Gauss blaster - 9
Gauss Cannon - 20
Gauss flayer - 0
Gauss flayer array - 0
Gauss flux arc - 0
Heat ray - 54
Heavy gauss cannon - 27 (-7)
Particle beamer - 10
Particle caster - 4
Particle shredder - 41
Particle whip - 0
Rod of covenant - 10
Staff of light - 10 (-8)
Synaptic disintegrator - 0
Tesla cannon - 13
Tesla carbine - 9
Tesla destructor - 0
Tesla sphere - 0
Transdimensional beamer - 14
Twin heavy gauss cannon - 54 (-10)
Twin tesla destructor - 0

Automaton claws - 0
Crackling tendrils - 0
Feeder mandibles - 0
Flayer claws - 0
Hyperphase sword - 3
Massive forelimbs - 0
Vicious claws - 0
Voidblade - 6
Voidscythe - 20
Warscythe - 11
Whip coils - 9

Dispersion shield - 12 (-3)
Chronometron - 15
Canoptek cloak - 5
Fabricator claw array - 5 (-3)
Gloom prism - 5
Nebuloscope - 2 (-1)
Phylactery - 10 (-5)
Resurrection orb - 35
Shadowloom - 5
Shieldvanes - 3 (-3)

Stratagems:
Spoiler:
Enhanced Reanimation Protocols: 2 CP reroll 1's RP.
Dynastic Heirlooms: 1 CP take an extra artefact / 3 CP take two extra artefacts.
Wrath of the C'tan: 2 CP after using a C'tan power immediately use an additional random C'tan power.
Enhanced Invasion Beam: 1 CP set up two units via invasion beams/eternity gate instead of one.
Emergency Invasion Beam: 1 CP if your last Monolith/Night Scythe dies deploy a unit still in Tomb World reserves.
Solar Pulse: 1 CP enemy unit loses cover bonus for this shooting phase.
Amalgamated Targeting Data: 1 CP 3 Doom Scythes dont fire but causes 3D3 mortal wounds within 3" of a point on 4+ (3+ for big units).
Resurrection Protocols: 1 CP Character (not Trazyn and C'tan) are raised with 1 wound on 4+
Damage Control Override: 1 CP Necron Vehicle shoots with un-degraded profile for a turn.
Dispersion Field Amplification: 2 CP Lychguard with Dispersion Shields gain a 3++ in the shooting phase, attacker suffers MW on rolls of 6.
Repair Subroutines: 2 CP A Canoptek unit gains RP for a turn.
Quantum Deflection: 1 CP -1 to rolls made for Quantum Shielding for a phase.
Self-Destruction: 1 CP 1 Swarm can suicide, causing D3 mortal wounds on 2+ to nearby unit
Extermination Protocols: 1 CP Destroyer unit rerolls failed to hit and wound for a shooting phase.
Disruption Fields: 1 CP +1 Strength for a necron infantry unit in close combat for a assault phase.
The Phaeron's Will: 1 CP Overlord can use MWBD / WoC a second time
Entropic Strike: 1 CP Necron Character ignores enemy invuln saves on his first attack in close combat.
Adaptive Subroutines: 1 CP Canoptek Unit can shoot and/or charge while advancing.
Dimensional Corridor: 1 CP infantry unit that is more than 1" away from enemies can teleport from anywhere on the table to within 3" of a Monolith.
Judgment of the Triarch: 1 CP Prateorians gains +1 to hit for a shooting or fight phase.
Gravity Singularity: 1 CP Obelisk gravity pulse triggers on 4+ instead of 6's.
Cosmic Powers: 1 CP C'tan Shard can replace one of its power with a different power.
Methodical Destruction: 2 CP (Sautekh) If a Sautekh unit causes an usnaved wound, add +1 to hit for friendly Sautekh that target the same unit this phase
Reclaim a Lost Empire: 2 CP (Nihilakh) End of turn. Select a unit, if within 3" from an objective marker OR if it didnt move for any reason during its turn, it gains +1 to saving throws and +1 attack until the start of next turn
Translocation Crypt: 1 CP (Nephrek) During deployment. One infantry or Swarm unit gains 9" deepstrike.
Blood Rites: 3 CP (Novokh) Novok Unit can fight a second time in this fight phase.
Talent for Annihilation: 1 CP (Mephrit) For every 6 to hit in the shooting phase, make one additional hit roll.

Artefacts:
Spoiler:
- Nightmare Shroud: +1 save characteristic, enemies get -1 Ld within 6"
- Orb of Eternity: Replaces Res Orb. +1 to the result.
- Gauntlet of Conflagrator: One use only. 8" Pistol 1. Roll a D6 for each model in the target unit within 8". MW on each roll of 6.
- Voidreaper: Replaces War/Voidscythe. Wounds on 2+ unless targeting vehicles, in which case it has S7. (AP -4, D3)
- Veil of Darkness: Bearer and 1 dynasty infantry unit within 3" are removed and can deepstrike 9" away from enemy (unit must be within 6" of bearer)
- Lightning Field: 4++. Roll a D6 for enemy units within 1" of the bearer at the start of the fight phase. A MW on 4+
- Nanoscarab Casket. Replaces Phylactery. Regains D3 rather than 1, during both your and opponents turn. First time bearer is slain, on 4+ he is set back up at tend of phase, with D6 wounds remaining.
- Sempiternal Weave. Infantry only. +1T and +1W.
- Voltaic Staff. Mephrit Relic. Repalces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 3 S6 AP3 D2 / User AP2 D1
- Blood Scythe. Novokh Relic. Replaces War/Voidscythe. +2 S, AP-4, D2, +D3 Attacks.
- Abyssal Staff. Sauthek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 1. Hits automatically, roll 3D6 if a unit is hit in the shooting phase: equal or greater than LD and unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. (AP-2 D1 in melee)
- The Solar Staff. Nephrek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 6, S5 AP3 D1 / AP2 D1. If enemy infantry is hit in shooting phase,on 4+ they are blinded and cannot overwatch and suffers -1 to hit for rest of turn.
- Timesplinter Cloak. Nihilak Relic. Once per battle, re-roll a single hit roll, wound roll, or damage roll for the bearer. 5+++.

Warlord Traits:
Spoiler:
• -1 Damage taken on Warlord.
• Re-roll failed wound rolls in fight phase if charged/was charged/performed a HI.
• Friendly <Dynasty> units automatically pass morale within 6".
• Warlord can attempt to deny 1 psychic power.
• Increases range of all abilities by 3". (with a few exceptions)
• Reroll failed charge rolls for friendly <Dynasty> units within 6"
• Warlord gains +D3 attacks if targeting the same character with all their attacks.

Sautekh: Once per battle, reroll a single hit roll, wound roll or damage roll. In addition, regain each spent CP on 5+.
Mephrit: +6" to the maximum range of all Assault weapons fired by your Warlord. Your Warlord can shoot enemy characters even if they are not the closest model.
Nihilak: Always fights first in the fight phase even if he didn't charge.
Nephrek: Opponent must substract 1 from hit rolls that target the Warlord.
Novok: Unmodified hit rolls of 6's in the fight phase for friendly novokhs within 6" of your Warlord can make one additional attack.

Dynastic Codes:
Spoiler:
Sautekh-
Treat all weapons as assault when advancing, and heavy weapons ignore -1 BS movement penalty (unless they advanced).

Novokh-
Reroll failed to hit rolls in fight phase if they charged or were charged.

Nihilakh-
Reroll to hit rolls of 1 when shooting if you haven't moved.

Mephrit-
Add -1 AP at below half range (Tesla AP0 becomes AP-1 at 12" or less).

Nephrekh:
Advance 6" automatically (7" with MWBD) and ignore terrain & models.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 03:08:20


Post by: Grimgold


Let's get this party started, here is a quick and dirty breakdown of how the powers of the C'Tan shake out:





Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 03:38:06


Post by: JNAProductions


So tomb blades for days now?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 03:40:46


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Soooooooooo
What's a Voidscythe compared to a Warscythe?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 03:42:59


Post by: JNAProductions


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Soooooooooo
What's a Voidscythe compared to a Warscythe?


+1 to wound against squishy things (non-vehicles) that are T4-T6, +2 against T7, +3 against T8-13, and +4 against T14+.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 03:44:41


Post by: Barrywise


Let me just say. As a Dark Eldar player, your Tomb Blades make me jealous.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 03:46:25


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 JNAProductions wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Soooooooooo
What's a Voidscythe compared to a Warscythe?


+1 to wound against squishy things (non-vehicles) that are T4-T6, +2 against T7, +3 against T8-13, and +4 against T14+.

Where did that info come from?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 03:53:41


Post by: Grimgold


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Soooooooooo
What's a Voidscythe compared to a Warscythe?


+1 to wound against squishy things (non-vehicles) that are T4-T6, +2 against T7, +3 against T8-13, and +4 against T14+.

Where did that info come from?


He is comparing S7 vs the modifier required to get a 2+. so since S7 vs T4 is normally a 3, it effectively a +1 to wound.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 03:54:33


Post by: dapperbandit


One thing I've seen that I never saw posted was the shot of the points cost of the Tesseract Vault. It's 496, same as the index. Not sure if it's worth that much even given the improvement's. But at least it didn't go up. Four improved powers of the Ctan do make it a mortal wounds factory that's for sure.

Also the Monolith. Didn't see anyone mention the change to its Portal of Exile. Doesn't have to be target of the charge for it to work, an enemy unit has to end a charge move within 1" of the model. 1" isn't great, was hopin for within 3" or something. In fact, not even sure how that would work unless a big unit charges to surround a unit you have just in front of the monolith. Surely, even if you put a unit base to hull with the monolith a charging enemy could do it without triggering the Portal? Seems like something a player could easily avoid.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 04:05:39


Post by: Grimgold


Well the Tesseract Vault is about twice as tough as it was before, and since it can make it rain mortal wounds I'll put it into the maybe category. Sadly I only own the obelisk, and we don't know how gravity pulse works, so here is hoping it is awesome. Also I haven't seen any leaks for points, if you have any sources that would be most helpful.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 04:13:10


Post by: skoffs


I'm disappointed the Monolith's "Death Descending" doesn't actually cause death.
(was it honestly too much to ask for a giant titanic hunk of living metal falling from the sky to be able to squish things it lands on? Seriously. "Choose target unit, roll 2D6. Compare against target's movement speed. If dice result is higher than M, target suffers D6 mortal wounds. Then move unit 3" away from Monolith." Bam, done.)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 04:26:10


Post by: Egyptian Space Zombie


So something to keep in mind about Novokh is that it won't work on any of the C'tans, canoptek stuff or the pretorians. So that leaves shooty stuff, your characters, lychguard and flayed ones. Unless I'm missing some way of giving canoptek stuff the dynasty keyword, that seems poor.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 04:35:36


Post by: Drakmord


 Egyptian Space Zombie wrote:
So something to keep in mind about Novokh is that it won't work on any of the C'tans, canoptek stuff or the pretorians. So that leaves shooty stuff, your characters, lychguard and flayed ones. Unless I'm missing some way of giving canoptek stuff the dynasty keyword, that seems poor.


Canoptek units have the Dynasty keyword already, even the Acanthrites and Stalker/Sentinels from FW.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 04:41:48


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


I don't think anyone expected Praetorians to get the Dynasty word, so really they just need a price cut and a key Strategem to use with them.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 04:42:27


Post by: Egyptian Space Zombie


My mistake then, thought I remembered that they didn't. Nevermind then. I don't know why I forgot that.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 04:58:48


Post by: MinscS2


Dimensional Corridor really shouldn't be a stratagem but an innate ability of the Monolith, although possibly restricted to units within 24" or something.

 Egyptian Space Zombie wrote:
So something to keep in mind about Novokh is that it won't work on any of the C'tans, canoptek stuff or the pretorians. So that leaves shooty stuff, your characters, lychguard and flayed ones. Unless I'm missing some way of giving canoptek stuff the dynasty keyword, that seems poor.


We don't know if Praetorians won't have the <Dynasty> keyword in the codex.
They are Necrons and it makes very little sense that Canoptek-constructs have it and they don't.

C'tans on the other hands are not Necrons, so I can understand why they don't have it.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 05:00:28


Post by: Requizen


As someone who owns 12 Tomb Blades and a T'Ctan, I can only surmise my time has come.

Finally maybe I'll play 8th. Been waiting for this...


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 06:02:58


Post by: Neophyte2012


About the Dynasty, which one would stands out?

From my preliminary view, the Sautekh one may be the one that is not easy to justify, as most of the Necron platforms carrying the Heavy weapons already has "relentless", and are fast enough or can DS so might not need to advance to shoot. So it only buffs warriors / immortals when they are 30.1" away from their desired target, and Doomscythe and DDA ( actually you won't want the DDA to move anyway).
Mephrit, maybe a really powerful one, especially if you have large numbers of Immortals (not sure whether Gauss or Tesla is better for this code), And can DS them by whatever ways. Gauss Tombblade with this code is also very good.
Novokh is clear in its effect: it helps combat, which is one of the "thought weakness". While the Nililakh one is more for static gunline with long range weaponary, but only rerolling ones is no match to something likethe buff the Ultramarine could get.
Lastly, Nephrekh buffs the mobility. Which might be good to giving better mobility for Necron troops to get onto objective or into optimal firing position to shoot next turn.

What do you guys think?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 06:20:14


Post by: Arachnofiend


Sautekh is the dynasty for Overlord Moneybags because it buffs the tesseract ark considerably. Nihilakh seems impractical for the way our army functions. The rest are all pretty good and will require seeing the the relics and warlord traits to properly judge; right now I'm leaning towards Nephrekh.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 08:07:58


Post by: Therion


Tomb Blades are just amazing. They are a game changer unit that can do anything. Of course we're still waiting for points costs which have the power to make this unit either stupid good or just good. Either way, because of the mobility, fly so they can't get stuck in cc, easy benefit from Mephrit, and durability, I suspect they'll be a mainstay unit.

Warriors / Immortals for troops depending on how the math shakes out, a lot of Tomb Blades for fast (personally I'm thinking three full sized units), and then support from whatever else we got that works.

Superwargamer said on Discord that Lychguard suck, and Deathmarks are AMAZING, for whatever that's worth. I would believe him since the other unit he said was AMAZING was Tomb Blades. He also said he'd leak the full codex by wednesday this week.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 08:30:48


Post by: skoffs


I worry Tomb Blades are TOO amazing.
Remember Scatter Bike Spam?
This may end up being V.2...


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 09:34:54


Post by: Nogil


Here ya go:

Spoiler:




Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 10:31:46


Post by: Therion


From Super wargamer: Necrons have the 5+ cp regen wl trait


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 10:53:16


Post by: dapperbandit


More fun times for your HQs


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 10:53:21


Post by: Nagerash


I've always liked Deathmarks. Their fluff and idea was always awesome. I guess we'll finally see more of them! I wonder what they buffed. Probably the ability to do mortal wounds vs the target they are hunting.

And I do forsee very annoyed faces whenever a Necron player brings any ammount of bikes, the same as every Eldar player has (rightfully) recieved for their version.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 11:09:39


Post by: Odrankt


With Tomb Blades now having a mandatory -1 to hit when shot at has made their durability improve quite a lot. Hell, I would even pay Index prices for what they are now.

My question is though, what's the best way to make them more durable? I feel that for every Dynasty, besides Mephrit, that TBs should be equipped with Shieldvanes and nebuloscopes. Having -1 to hit, 3+ natural save and ignoring cover will make theses guys really good at surviving and at killing.

For Mephrit., The best load out will probably be Shieldvanes and Shadowlooms. Having a trait that gives you an extra "-1" if in half range of your gun makes TBs scary AF. Mephrit almost makes Nebuloscopes redundant due to AP -3 with Gauss just as good as ignoring cover. Mephrit Tomb Blades w/ 3+ save, 5++ invul and a -1 = no more friends at my local gaming club.

Once our opponents know what these bad boys can do I can imagine they will be the 1st unit all our opponents target. Which isn't a bad thing.
They will tank nearly everything that hits them meaning the rest of our army will be ignored. That in its self is a serious situation for any of our opponents to be in. Do they kill our really fast resistant Bikers and ignore our other units. or, do they focus on our other units and leave our bikers go on a murder spree.

Also, just thought about the New Cryptek. With it moving 10" natural it can easily keep up with Tomb Blades if we advance it and/or don't fully move the TBs. Tomb Blades with 3+ save, 5++ invul/Ignoring cover, -1 to hit when shot at AND +1 Reanimation Protocols.... I can't believe GW let this happen... Even I feel bad for anyone going up against our Bikers now. R.I.P friendships.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 11:26:37


Post by: Therion


He confirmed again that a double Gauss Blaster Tomb Blade costs the index price -11 points. Ridiculous


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 12:04:14


Post by: Dionysodorus


Huh, after Shining Spears it almost seems intentional that these fast, close-in, multiwound units are very competitively priced. I like that a lot, actually -- they're a lot more interesting to play with and against than "I deploy in cover and then shoot from 48" all game".
 Odrankt wrote:

For Mephrit., The best load out will probably be Shieldvanes and Shadowlooms. Having a trait that gives you an extra "-1" if in half range of your gun makes TBs scary AF. Mephrit almost makes Nebuloscopes redundant due to AP -3 with Gauss just as good as ignoring cover. Mephrit Tomb Blades w/ 3+ save, 5++ invul and a -1 = no more friends at my local gaming club.

It's worth noting that you can mix and match wargear, which is a pretty big deal with their much cheaper base cost. At index prices, shieldvanes and shadowlooms would bring each model back up to 42 points, but you can probably get away with splitting these up. Maybe in a unit of 9 you take 3 with shadowlooms and 3 with shieldvanes and pay 312 points instead of 378 points. Then when you get hit by a lascannon you allocate it to a shadowloom. When you get hit by a bolter you allocate it to a shieldvane. When you get hit by mortal wounds you allocate to a naked one. You get almost all of the durability and all of the firepower for 82% of the cost. Plus your RP rolls will tend to bring back the better models.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 12:41:41


Post by: Niiai


The tessarach vault is only T7. Most Necron things big enough are T8. But I supose that 4+ save and 28 wounds will keep it safe. It is a little bit thougher then 2 hive tyrants, but they have dep strike. :-/

 Barrywise wrote:
Let me just say. As a Dark Eldar player, your Tomb Blades make me jealous.


Patience. A codex will be made. DE bikes are currently one of the worst units in the game, with an amazingly high price tag.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 12:47:20


Post by: MoonlightSonata


https://youtu.be/hqVO6ez4xFU

Get it into our brains quick before it gets taken off.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 12:52:05


Post by: MinscS2


Overall I feel slightly disappointed with the codex.
There was no redesign of Necrons, this (beta) codex feels like the Index +1.

A few things I noticed: (other than what has been leaked/uploaded already)

RP hasn't changed, it's still roll 5+ for every slain model at the beginning of the turn.

Necron Lords have a reroll 1's to wound-aura.

Canoptek Cloaks give 10" movement and Fly, and a unit within 3" heals D3 instead of 1 with their Living Metal.

Hyperphase Swords give +1 Strength.

Flayed Ones lost 1 attack and their Ld-rule got worse (they now need to kill a model for said unit to get -1 Ld for the turn). They did get 4 ppm cheaper though.

Praetorians and Stalkers still don't have the <Dynasty> keyword. Wtf?

Heat Ray is now 2D6 hits when dispersed.

Wraiths did get AP-2 D2, and the ability to shoot/charge after falling back, but also went up massively in price.

Gauss Cannon is now Strength 6.

Doomsday Cannon is D6 shots on both profiles, regardless of the size of targeted unit.

Pointcosts in spoiler:
(Wargear with a cost of 0 isn't in the list.)

Spoiler:

Anrakyr: 167
C'tan Deciever: 225
Nightbringer: 210
Szeras: 143
Imotekh: 200
Zahndrekh: 180
Orikan: 115
Trazsyn: 100
Obyron: 140

Command Barge: 138
Cryptek: 70
Destroyer Lord: 110
Lord: 73
Overlord: 84

Warriors: 12
Immortals: 8

Deathmarks: 19
Lychguard: 19
Flayed Ones: 17
Praetorians: 22
Stalker: 117

Scarabs: 13
Wraiths: 55
Destroyers: 30
Blades: 14

A Barge: 133
Spyders: 65
Doomsday Ark: 193
H. Destroyers: 30
Monolith: 381
Transcendent C'tan: 225

Ghost Ark: 160
Doom Scythe: 205
Night Scyte: 160

Obelisk: 426 pts
Tesseract Vault: 496 pts

Gauss Blaster 9 pts
Gauss cannon 20 pts
Heat Ray 54 pts
Heavy Guass Cannn 27
Particle Beamer 10
Particle Caster 4
Particle Shredder 41
Rod of Covenant 10
Staff of Light 10
Tesla Cannon 13
Tesla Carbine 9
Transdimensional Beamer 14
Twin Heavy Guass 54

Hyperphase swords 3
Voidblade 6
Voidscythe 20
Warscythe 11
Whip coils 9

Dispersion Shield 12
Chronometron 15
Canoptek Cloak 5
F claw array 5
Gloom Prism 5
Nebuloscope 2
Phylactery 10
Res Orb 35
Shadowloom 5
Shieldvanes 3


Stratagems in spoiler:

Spoiler:

2 CP reroll RP rolls of 1.
2 CP use an additional random C'tan power.
1 CP set up two units via invasion beams/eternity gate instead of one.
1 CP 3 Doom Scythes in proximity don't shoot but causes 3D3 mortal wounds to units within 3" of a point on 4+ (3+ for big units, 5+ for charcaters)
1 CP A Character (not Trazyn and C'tan) are raised with 1 wound on a roll of 4+
1 CP A Necron Vehicle shoots with its undegraded profile for a turn.
2 CP A Lychguard unit with Dispersion Shields gain a 3++ in the shooting phase, attacker suffers MS on rolls of 6.
2 CP A Canoptek unit gains RP for a turn.
1 CP -1 to rolls made for Quantum Shielding on a vehicle for a phase.
1 CP 1 Swarm model can suicide, causing D3 mortal wounds on 2+ to a nearby (1") unit
1 CP A Destroyer unit rerolls failed to hit and wound for a shooting phase.
1 CP +1 Strength for a necron infantry unit in close combat for a assault phase.
1 CP Overlord can use MWBD / WoC a second time
1 CP A Necron Character ignores invulnerable saves on his *first attack* in close combat.
1 CP A Canoptek Unit can shoot and/or charge while advancing.
1 CP A unit of Prateorians gains +1 to hit for a shooting or fight phase.
1 CP An Obelisk's gravity pulse triggers on 4+ instead of 6's.
1 CP A C'tan Shard can replace one of its power with a different power.
2 CP (Sautekh) If a Sautekh unit causes an usnaved wound to a unit, add +1 to hit for friendly sautekh units that target the same unit this phase
2 CP (Nihilakh) End of turn. Select a unit, if within 3" from an objective marker OR if it didnt move for any reason during its turn, it gains +1 to saving throws and +1 attack until the start of next turn
1 CP (Nephrek) During deployment. One infantry or Swarm unit can be set up in deepstrike (9")
3 CP (Novokh) A Novokh unit can fight a second time in this fight phase.
1 CP (Mephrit) For every roll of 6 to hit in the shooting phase, make one additional hit roll.


Artefacts in spoiler:

Spoiler:

- Nightmare Shroud: +1 save characteristic, enemies get -1 Ld within 6"
- Orb of Eternity: Replaces Res Orb. +1 to the result of RP.
- Gauntlet of Conflagrator: One use only. 8" Pistol 1. Roll a D6 for each model in the target unit within 8". Mortal wound on each roll of 6.
- Voidreaper: Replaces War/Voidscythe. Wounds on 2+ unless targeting vehicles, in which case it has S7. (AP-4, Damage 3)
- Veil of Darkness: Bearer and 1 dynasty infantry unit within 3" are removed and can deepstrike 9" away from enemy (unit must be within 6" of bearer)
- Lightning Field: 4++. Roll a D6 for enemy units within 1" of the bearer at the start of the fight phase. A Mortal wound on 4+
- Nanoscarab Casket. Replaces Phylactery. Regains D3 rather than 1, during both your turn and opponents turn. First time bearer is slain, on 4+ he is set back up at end of phase, with D6 wounds remaining.
- Sempiternal Weave. Infantry only. +1T and +1W.
- Voltaic Staff. Mephrit Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 3 S6, AP3 Damage 2 / User AP2 D1
- Blood Scythe. Novokh Relic. Replaces War/Voidscythe. +2 S, AP-4, Damage 2, +D3 Attacks.
- Abyssal Staff. Sauthek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 1. Hits automatically, roll 3D6 if a unit is hit in the shooting phase: equal or greater than LD and unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. (AP-2 Damage 1 in melee)
- The Solar Staff. Nephrek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 6, S5 AP3 Damage 1 / AP2 Damage 1. If enemy infantry is hit in the shooting phase, on 4+ they are blinded and cannot overwatch and suffers -1 to hit for rest of turn.
- Timesplinter Cloak. Nihilak Relic. Once per battle, re-roll a single hit roll, wound roll, or damage roll for the bearer. 5+++.


Warlord Traits in spoiler:

Spoiler:

-1 Damage taken on Warlord.
Re-roll failed wound rolls in fight phase if charged/was charged/performed a HI.
Friendly <Dynasty> units automatically pass morale within 6". Warlord can attempt to deny 1 psychic power.
Increases range of all abilities by 3". (with a few exceptions such as vehicle explosions etc.)
Reroll failed charge rolls for friendly <Dynasty> units within 6"
Warlord gains +D3 attacks if targeting the same character with all their attacks.

Sautekh: Once per battle, reroll a single hit roll, wound roll or damage roll. In addition, regain each spent CP on 5+.
Mephrit: +6" to the maximum range of all Assault weapons fired by your Warlord. Your Warlord can shoot enemy characters even if they are not the closest model.
Nihilak: Always fights first in the fight phase even if he didn't charge.
Nephrek: Opponent must substract 1 from hit rolls that target the Warlord.
Novok: Unmodified hit rolls of 6's in the fight phase for friendly novokhs within 6" of your Warlord can make one additional attack.


Lychguard got better due to certain Stratagems (+1 Str, 3++), Warlord Traits (reroll charge), and +1 Str on their swords, but they're still overpriced at 30 ppm with Scythes and 34 ppm with Shields respectively. T5 W2 is not resilient in 8th Ed.

Negative Nancy says that with the exception of stuff that always gets added in 8th Ed. codeci, very little has actually changed from the Index to the Codex. Many units stayed the same or nearly the same.
Positive Pete on the other hand points out that overall our Codes, Stratagems, Relics and Warlord Traits are pretty good, or at the very least useable.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 13:34:58


Post by: KurtAngle2


Anrakyr the Traveller - 167
C'tan Shard of the Deceiver - 225
C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer - 210 (-20)
Illuminor Szeras - 143
Imotekh the Stormlord - 200 (-28)
Nemesor Zahndrekh - 180
Orikan the Diviner - 115 (-28)
Trazyn the Infinite - 100 (-39)
Vargard Obyron - 140 (-11)

Annihilation Barge - 133
Canoptek Spyders - 65 (-11)
Doomsday Ark - 193 (-10)
Heavy Destroyers - 30 (-13)
Monolith - 381
Transcendent C'tan - 225 (-7)

Ghost Ark - 160 (-10)

Doom Scythe - 205 (-15)
Night Scythe - 160 (-14)
Catacomb Command Barge - 138
Cryptek - 70 (-16)
Destroyer Lord - 110 (-14)
Lord - 73
Overlord - 84 (-17)

Obelisk - 426
Tesseract Vault - 496

Deathmarks - 19 (-1)
Immortals - 8
Lychguard - 19
Necron Warriors - 12

Flayed Ones - 17 pt (-4)
Triarch Praetorians - 22 (-3)
Triarch Stalker - 117

Canoptek Scarabs - 13
Canoptek Wraiths - 55 (+17)
Destroyers - 30 (-13)
Tomb Blades - 14 (-10)

Death ray - 0
Doomsday cannon - 0
Gauss blaster - 9
Gauss Cannon - 20
Gauss flayer - 0
Gauss flayer array - 0
Gauss flux arc - 0
Heat ray - 54
Heavy gauss cannon - 27 (-7)
Particle beamer - 10
Particle caster - 4
Particle shredder - 41
Particle whip - 0
Rod of covenant - 10
Staff of light - 10 (-8)
Synaptic disintegrator - 0
Tesla cannon - 13
Tesla carbine - 9
Tesla destructor - 0
Tesla sphere - 0
Transdimensional beamer - 14
Twin heavy gauss cannon - 54 (-10)
Twin tesla destructor - 0

Automaton claws - 0
Crackling tendrils - 0
Feeder mandibles - 0
Flayer claws - 0
Hyperphase sword - 3
Massive forelimbs - 0
Vicious claws - 0
Voidblade - 6
Voidscythe - 20
Warscythe - 11
Whip coils - 9

Dispersion shield - 12 (-3)
Chronometron - 15
Canoptek cloak - 5
Fabricator claw array - 5 (-3)
Gloom prism - 5
Nebuloscope - 2 (-1)
Phylactery - 10 (-5)
Resurrection orb - 35
Shadowloom - 5
Shieldvanes - 3 (-3)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 13:51:51


Post by: Kdash


Wow @ that Wraith point increase lol.

Pretty interesting set of points changes, if these are true.

Nevermind, seems to all have come from here!
Spoiler:



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 13:56:44


Post by: skoffs


 MoonlightSonata wrote:
https://youtu.be/hqVO6ez4xFU

Get it into our brains quick before it gets taken off.

Just finished the special characters.
Really disappointed they haven't really changed them much, if at all.
At least Trazyn's staff is a little more useful now? (S7, AP-1, d3D)
Obyron still can't ghostwalk unless Zahndrekh is on the table. Lame.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 13:59:34


Post by: Kdash


So, 41 points for a 3+ 5++ -1 to hit Tomb Blade - 123 for 3. Certainly going to pack a punch as Mephrit! 369 for a full unit.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 14:10:29


Post by: MoonlightSonata


Wraiths also gained the ability to shoot and charge after falling back which is extremely significant


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 14:15:40


Post by: Oberron


I'm happy that the c'tan look like good options now and I also like that you can either pick their special ability or roll for 2, and at least half of them are really good (double power use,+1 on saves, regain d3 each turn), I haven't seen the video yet but do the special ctan have their old abilities still?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 14:27:02


Post by: H


Kdash wrote:
So, 41 points for a 3+ 5++ -1 to hit Tomb Blade - 123 for 3. Certainly going to pack a punch as Mephrit! 369 for a full unit.


Back in the old 4th Edition days, we used to run a full compliment of Destroyers plus the Deciever and sometimes a Monolith.

Seems Tomb Blades are the "new" Destroyers now? I haven't played since 5th edition, but I an wondering if a similar list to the old ones would work...


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 14:31:13


Post by: Requizen


Not understanding the gloom and doom here. All point drops are good, all the Strats seem solid, all the other abilities (Traits, Artifacts, Codes) are good. There are armies that would kill for the boost in power we just got. Stratagems in particular drastically increase an army's power level and/or change the way it plays, and ours are very good.

MoonlightSonata wrote:Wraiths also gained the ability to shoot and charge after falling back which is extremely significant

And the improved melee profile. Not to mention a run + charge Stratagem. Which for Nephrekh means a guaranteed 18" + 2d6" threat range.

Yeah, the points went up but so did the power level of one of the units people were already using in the Index.
Oberron wrote:I'm happy that the c'tan look like good options now and I also like that you can either pick their special ability or roll for 2, and at least half of them are really good (double power use,+1 on saves, regain d3 each turn), I haven't seen the video yet but do the special ctan have their old abilities still?

Named C'tan are fairly well the same from what I see. Nightbringer dropped in points. Both can choose two powers but only use one per turn, which gives some flexibility.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 14:36:48


Post by: Doctoralex


a BIG one for the C'tan, more specifically the Nightbringer, is the Entropic Strike strategem.

No invuln saves! 'Oh hi Magnus!' scything noises


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 14:37:38


Post by: skoffs


Requizen wrote:
Not understanding the gloom and doom here.

I wouldn't say there's a lot of gloom and doom.
I was mostly just annoyed the characters didn't get much of a change.
Overall the rest of the codex looks pretty decent.

[this is assumed to be the beta codex, though. The final version may have some differences in it, but should be pretty similar]


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 14:38:41


Post by: Doctoralex


There are some nerfs as well though..

Flayed ones: - 1 attack

Scarabs: Now WS 4+, but gained Fly.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 14:39:58


Post by: Requizen


 skoffs wrote:
Requizen wrote:
Not understanding the gloom and doom here.

I wouldn't say there's a lot of gloom and doom.
I was mostly just annoyed the characters didn't get much of a change.
Overall the rest of the codex looks pretty decent.

[this is assumed to be the beta codex, though. The final version may have some differences in it, but should be pretty similar]


Honestly I expect this to be almost exactly what we see in release. I seriously doubt this is someone risking a legal action by posting, more than likely it's GW giving "permission to leak" to generate hype.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Doctoralex wrote:
There are some nerfs as well though..

Flayed ones: - 1 attack

Scarabs: Now WS 4+, but gained Fly.


I'm kinda ok with that. If Flayed Ones were 17 points but still 4 attacks, that might be a smidge too strong. With 3 (and if Novokh for rerolls and potentially double fight), they'll be plenty strong.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 14:42:23


Post by: Odrankt


Has anyone not noticed that Deathmarks and Lychguard are now TROOPS choices!!!! OMG that is insane. No more "tax" troops to get Lychguard anymore. Instead of invesng pts for the Warriors and Immortals it can be put into the Lychguard. They might be expensive but putting them as Troops has made that issue not so bad seeing as we don't have to take any tax or Vanguard Detachments to get them now.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 14:46:04


Post by: Requizen


 Odrankt wrote:
Has anyone not noticed that Deathmarks and Lychguard are now TROOPS choices!!!! OMG that is insane. No more "tax" troops to get Lychguard anymore. Instead of invesng pts for the Warriors and Immortals it can be put into the Lychguard. They might be expensive but putting them as Troops has made that issue not so bad seeing as we don't have to take any tax or Vanguard Detachments to get them now.


They aren't. The back section lists them under Troops but the Dataslate still had the Elites icon.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 14:47:21


Post by: Odrankt


@Requizan

Not to mention that if you take the Novokah Warlord trait your Warlord for every natural hit roll of 6 you get 1 extra hit. Not as good as 4 attacks per model but it does help out. I feel that this Trait was to be used on these guys with the Warlord backing them up.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 14:47:31


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


 Odrankt wrote:
Has anyone not noticed that Deathmarks and Lychguard are now TROOPS choices!!!! OMG that is insane. No more "tax" troops to get Lychguard anymore. Instead of invesng pts for the Warriors and Immortals it can be put into the Lychguard. They might be expensive but putting them as Troops has made that issue not so bad seeing as we don't have to take any tax or Vanguard Detachments to get them now.

Their Datasheets still say Elites though.

If I was a betting kind of man I'd be willing to bet that the Points Entry being under Troops is a mistake.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 14:48:04


Post by: Diputs


For those of us at work, has anyone noticed any changes to canoptek spyders? Right now running a full canoptek detachment that can advance 6" through cover and charge with a stratagem sounds fun - but spyders have felt so expensive and fragile with the index.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 14:48:18


Post by: Odrankt


Requizen wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
Has anyone not noticed that Deathmarks and Lychguard are now TROOPS choices!!!! OMG that is insane. No more "tax" troops to get Lychguard anymore. Instead of invesng pts for the Warriors and Immortals it can be put into the Lychguard. They might be expensive but putting them as Troops has made that issue not so bad seeing as we don't have to take any tax or Vanguard Detachments to get them now.


They aren't. The back section lists them under Troops but the Dataslate still had the Elites icon.


Well now I look like a fool


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 14:50:26


Post by: Kdash


 Odrankt wrote:
Requizen wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
Has anyone not noticed that Deathmarks and Lychguard are now TROOPS choices!!!! OMG that is insane. No more "tax" troops to get Lychguard anymore. Instead of invesng pts for the Warriors and Immortals it can be put into the Lychguard. They might be expensive but putting them as Troops has made that issue not so bad seeing as we don't have to take any tax or Vanguard Detachments to get them now.


They aren't. The back section lists them under Troops but the Dataslate still had the Elites icon.


Well now I look like a fool


Nah, honestly, it makes GW look like fools again. Something has to be going seriously wrong for things like this to be missed on a somewhat regular basis.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 14:55:38


Post by: Doctoralex


Diputs wrote:
For those of us at work, has anyone noticed any changes to canoptek spyders? Right now running a full canoptek detachment that can advance 6" through cover and charge with a stratagem sounds fun - but spyders have felt so expensive and fragile with the index.


They are 11 points cheaper and the Fabricator Claw Array is 3 points cheaper. Other than that, no changes.

I can see them working alongside a Tesseract Vault and a Canpotek Cloak Cryptek to heal it 2D3 wounds


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 14:57:33


Post by: sieGermans


The combination of Stratagems, Dynasty traits, and Warlord traits fundamentally changes Necrons from the Index. Cool!


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 14:59:17


Post by: Odrankt


Kdash wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
Requizen wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
Has anyone not noticed that Deathmarks and Lychguard are now TROOPS choices!!!! OMG that is insane. No more "tax" troops to get Lychguard anymore. Instead of invesng pts for the Warriors and Immortals it can be put into the Lychguard. They might be expensive but putting them as Troops has made that issue not so bad seeing as we don't have to take any tax or Vanguard Detachments to get them now.


They aren't. The back section lists them under Troops but the Dataslate still had the Elites icon.


Well now I look like a fool


Nah, honestly, it makes GW look like fools again. Something has to be going seriously wrong for things like this to be missed on a somewhat regular basis.


It had been stated that this leaked Codex is still the "beta" one. Things are going to appear wrong untill the "proper" one is released. I should have took my time tbh before I posted my comment


Now to change topic.

I am quite happy that the Sautekh Trait let's us get CPs back on 5s when we use them. While it is quite fluffy and a great trait, I also just happy we don't need to spend as much effort to get as many CPs as possible like we do for the Index. I am also quite happy that a lot of the good Stratgems are only 1-2 CPs while a lot of "situational" ones are 3CPs.

Also looks like Doomscythes are going to be on the rise again.
"What's that, you have Robby G, Custodes and other units all wrapped up in an "unpenetratable" force? Well mister "Can't, touch this" let me spend this 1CP to pick a point within 24" of these 3 Dscythes and let's see your bubble withstand 3d3 mortal wounds for every 4+ I roll per model. Besides Robby G of course who needs a 5"


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 15:00:00


Post by: Darsath


Honestly, I don't see this changing Necrons much from their current bottom tier position. Many units that needed changes and points costs reductions got neither (such as the Monolith), and some of our usable units got nerfed (such as the Scarabs).


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 15:00:46


Post by: Doctoralex


I still can't get over Entropic Strike. I have to make a picture of my friends face when my Nightbringer 1-shots his Magnus with it!


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 15:01:16


Post by: buddha


So pretty disappointed so far and that is from a lifelong necron player. Like someone else said it feels like index +1 rather than a rework. My fear is we are closer to ad mech and GKs in terms low tier power.

The good:

- c'tan are great and add much needed mortal wound generation.
- warlord traits are good.
- Dynasties, especially Mephrit, are strong.
- Tomb blades rock.
- Gauss cannons are fixed and for the first time seem worthwhile.

The Bad:
- No changes to RP and quantum shielding. Oh boy this is frustrating. The mechanics of both just don't work right and provide very little benefit. IE it's not hard to focus down a unit so no RP and quantum shielding should have just been an invul since most damage is under 3 and therefore almost never succeeds.
- No fix to Tesla destructors. I was expecting at least an -1 rend but our primary Anti-tank gun in terms of availability is still like throwing a sweet paper towel.
- Praetorians are still unduly expensive and almost mandate you take particle casters and voidblades.

The ugly:
- lychguard are still meh and it is hard to justify them ever over wraiths.
- monolith is hilariously expensive still and a list has to be built around one though it's damage output is better.
- our flyers are still so meh. Not auto lose choices but can justify why you would take them over other options.
- stratgems are mixed. Most are very situational though there are a few gems.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 15:03:11


Post by: Requizen


Nephrekh might have jumped up my list. Max Advance + Charge Wraiths is insane. Solar Staff is really good (no Overwatch for you, gunline!) and can slap it on a CCB to support the Wraiths. I really want to try 1CP Deep Strike on 6 Destroyers - might be a bit on the expensive side, but "surprise, here's 18 S6 AP-3 D3 damage shots!" is a pretty scary unit for many people to deal with. Not that Destroyers lack mobility, but setting them up anywhere and gunning down a crucial unit (especially with reroll hits/wounds Strat) seems pretty good. Nephrekh Outrider with CCB/Wraiths/Destroyers/Scarabs is compact and packs a punch.

Sautekh almost seems mandatory in some regard, though. 5+ get back CP is one of the best Warlord Traits in any army it appears in, so it's at least worth considering.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 15:08:25


Post by: Impact12


Doctoralex wrote:
I still can't get over Entropic Strike. I have to make a picture of my friends face when my Nightbringer 1-shots his Magnus with it!


Sadly, it only affects the first attacks (aka, only 1 of the attacks) (strange wording though...)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 15:08:48


Post by: MinscS2


Doctoralex wrote:
I still can't get over Entropic Strike. I have to make a picture of my friends face when my Nightbringer 1-shots his Magnus with it!


It's for *one* attack. He won't oneshot anything.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 15:19:02


Post by: Diputs


Doctoralex wrote:
Diputs wrote:
For those of us at work, has anyone noticed any changes to canoptek spyders? Right now running a full canoptek detachment that can advance 6" through cover and charge with a stratagem sounds fun - but spyders have felt so expensive and fragile with the index.


They are 11 points cheaper and the Fabricator Claw Array is 3 points cheaper. Other than that, no changes.

I can see them working alongside a Tesseract Vault and a Canpotek Cloak Cryptek to heal it 2D3 wounds


Thanks! A little unfortunate, that - I love the big bugs, but it sounds like they're still going to suffer a bit. Hopefully advancing will keep the scarab hive in range, and having access to stratagems and codes will help. Still, I'm a little disappointed they didn't get a couple more wounds or the character keyword to help hide behind whatever they're supporting.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 15:20:36


Post by: JNAProductions


 MinscS2 wrote:
Doctoralex wrote:
I still can't get over Entropic Strike. I have to make a picture of my friends face when my Nightbringer 1-shots his Magnus with it!


It's for *one* attack. He won't oneshot anything.


D6 damage, right? He could one-shot a captain or something. Though, to be fair, he had a decent chance of doing that anyway.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 15:24:06


Post by: dapperbandit


Overall I'm somewhat disappointed. I think I was expecting more actual change in the rules for units. There's some stuff in here that's significant, but it's not... imaginative. There's not a whole lot of significant change in the core mechanics. Reanimation Protocols didn't change.

I was hoping Harbingers might return for Crypteks. Now we have the Canoptek cloak, so can move fast and heal characters, but you can't have the Chronometron at the same time.

Another nerf is that Canoptek Scarabs now hit on 4's. But they can fly. And Flayed ones only have 3 attacks each.

My favourite changes are to the Lord (I am glad I bought one now!) and to Destroyers, who are 13 points cheaper and get an extra shot and +1 strength.

I like some of the relics and strategems too. Particularly the Sautekh one if it means after inflicting a single unsaved wound on a unit you get +1 to hit against it with all your units attacking it in the same phase. So feasibly you could get 4+ Tesla hits with this. Which is mad.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 15:34:12


Post by: Requizen


 buddha wrote:
So pretty disappointed so far and that is from a lifelong necron player. Like someone else said it feels like index +1 rather than a rework. My fear is we are closer to ad mech and GKs in terms low tier power.

Index +1 is exactly the thing that people were saying about Eldar after the codex came out, and their Index was barely even considered past Ynnari DReapers. And they just nearly swept LVO.
The ugly:
- lychguard are still meh and it is hard to justify them ever over wraiths.
- monolith is hilariously expensive still and a list has to be built around one though it's damage output is better.
- our flyers are still so meh. Not auto lose choices but can justify why you would take them over other options.
- stratgems are mixed. Most are very situational though there are a few gems.


Your 1st, 3rd, and 4th points come together in an interesting way - both Night Scythes and Lychguard are better now, as they both came down in points and have Strats that make them worthwhile. 10 Shieldguard in a Scythe can fly up and, even if the Scythe gets punked, the Guard can come out and get a 3++ against shooting, for only a couple CP. If there's a Lord in there for the rerolls, you can use the double drop Strat too.

It's going to change how we build lists. I don't think a generalist Necron army will work, nor will the builds that we currently see (if there are any). You're going to pick a Stratagem and trick and build around that, which is what most armies do right now, and it works well for them.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 15:36:56


Post by: changemod


Having to use a command point to perform a basic function of a transport is definitely a little annoying, but yes: Dropping Lychguard along with the guy they're meant to be acting as bodyguard to so they can get their buffs is a big help to their usability.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 15:38:39


Post by: Requizen


changemod wrote:
Having to use a command point to perform a basic function of a transport is definitely a little annoying, but yes: Dropping Lychguard along with the guy they're meant to be acting as bodyguard to so they can get their buffs is a big help to their usability.


Yeah fair, but there's also plenty of other perks to using a NScythe over most transports. Multiple Scythes being able to "share" passengers, not taking any damage upon destruction, no max transport capacity, etc. While I would prefer regular Transport rules a lot of times, there is a tradeoff.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 15:40:43


Post by: Darsath


Requizen wrote:
changemod wrote:
Having to use a command point to perform a basic function of a transport is definitely a little annoying, but yes: Dropping Lychguard along with the guy they're meant to be acting as bodyguard to so they can get their buffs is a big help to their usability.


Yeah fair, but there's also plenty of other perks to using a NScythe over most transports. Multiple Scythes being able to "share" passengers, not taking any damage upon destruction, no max transport capacity, etc. While I would prefer regular Transport rules a lot of times, there is a tradeoff.


The biggest con in my eyes in treating Characters that would pair alongside the Lychguard as a separate unit. You can, however, spend a command point to deploy 2 units instead of 1. Still, overall, it's a net negative over regular transports.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 15:42:48


Post by: KurtAngle2


Doctoralex wrote:
I still can't get over Entropic Strike. I have to make a picture of my friends face when my Nightbringer 1-shots his Magnus with it!

Only works for the FIRST attack


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 16:03:14


Post by: unitled


Methodical Destruction adds +1 to hit rolls when I've caused an unsaved wound to a unit... This is a nice cheeky pick for Sautekh Teslamortals, right? Roll one at a time until an unsaved wound lands, then the remaining Immortals are triggering 3 hits on a 5+ (4+ with MWBD)?

EDIT: Means Imotekh flanked with 2 x 10 Tesla mortals can really shred whatever they point their weapons at, with an extra CP to fire the ability and a 1/3 chance to regain it if you take the Sautekh warlord trait...!


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 16:07:21


Post by: mhalko1


 MinscS2 wrote:
Dimensional Corridor really shouldn't be a stratagem but an innate ability of the Monolith, although possibly restricted to units within 24" or something.

 Egyptian Space Zombie wrote:
So something to keep in mind about Novokh is that it won't work on any of the C'tans, canoptek stuff or the pretorians. So that leaves shooty stuff, your characters, lychguard and flayed ones. Unless I'm missing some way of giving canoptek stuff the dynasty keyword, that seems poor.


We don't know if Praetorians won't have the <Dynasty> keyword in the codex.
They are Necrons and it makes very little sense that Canoptek-constructs have it and they don't.

C'tans on the other hands are not Necrons, so I can understand why they don't have it.


They don't, I'm looking at the datasheet now.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 16:12:05


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


Triarch Pretorians are not part of any Dynasty, it's a significant part of their fluff that would require a retcon for them to get a keyword.

Canoptek units belong to their Dynasty just like Vehicles do.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 16:13:42


Post by: Requizen


They don't prevent Dynastic Codes if included, though, so there's that.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 16:14:38


Post by: Niiai


Is not the domensional coridor quite good? Have a unit in deep strike in the transport. And then have a character or another unit pop out. It is very mobile.

It is a bit lacking paying 1CP for a character, but it is quite nice for a group of units.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 16:21:58


Post by: MinscS2


mhalko1 wrote:


They don't, I'm looking at the datasheet now.


I'm aware (see my large post on the previous page). I wrote that before the entire beta-codex was leaked. :(


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 16:23:41


Post by: Klowny


I am in love with the codex. Its everything i love about necrons gone supersayian. C'tan, tomb blades, wraiths, fast crypteks, vehicles. Drool mode engage.

Seriously, when they said they had a major rework of how necrons worked I never expected them to do what they did. I was assuming a rework of RP, but now we are THE mortal wounds army in the game.

And people thought smite spam was cancerous.... weve just got it on god mode.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 16:25:10


Post by: JNAProductions


So, 10 Tesla Immortals do the following:

20 shots become, on average...

20 hits
30 hits with MWBD
23.33 hits with exploding 6s
23.33 hits with rerolling 1s
40.83 hits with MWBD, exploding 6s, and rerolling 1s

The last one does (if within half-range) 22.69 wounds to a GEQ squad, 13.61 to MEQs, 9.07 to TEQs, and 6.81 wounds to Knights, Rhinos, anything T6-9 with a 3+ save.

Expensive, but reasonably brutal.

Edit: Also, I was wrong earlier. What the hell is a Voidscythe?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 16:26:42


Post by: Fenris-77


The tombworld deployment is fine so long as you're only taking one unit in reserve. By fine I mean no risk. Either the unit gets deployed as normal, or all your vehicles get toasted and you pay a CP to bring them on. I can see uses for that, and don't need to pay for multiple vehicles necessarily either.

If I have Tomblades, and Tesla Immortals, and whatever other newly-good units on the table, the vehicles in question won't be high priority anyway. One Monolith might be a useful addition for redeploying units via stratagem and DS that single unit. That's cool, but not so cool that everyone will be shooting the Monolith first every time. That's potentially two full sized units of whatever infantry redeployed. Sounds like ti could be useful in the right build.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 16:28:29


Post by: Klowny


 unitled wrote:
Methodical Destruction adds +1 to hit rolls when I've caused an unsaved wound to a unit... This is a nice cheeky pick for Sautekh Teslamortals, right? Roll one at a time until an unsaved wound lands, then the remaining Immortals are triggering 3 hits on a 5+ (4+ with MWBD)?

EDIT: Means Imotekh flanked with 2 x 10 Tesla mortals can really shred whatever they point their weapons at, with an extra CP to fire the ability and a 1/3 chance to regain it if you take the Sautekh warlord trait...!


It also means, sautekh vehicles go crazy (vehicles should only be taken in sautek IMO, the buff to the TA and DDA are phenomenal). Pair this with the stalkers buff, you now spend 1 CP to get a TA and DDA hitting on 2's Rerolling 1's with their stupid dakka.

Can MD be triggered by a MW?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 16:32:00


Post by: Requizen


 JNAProductions wrote:
So, 10 Tesla Immortals do the following:

20 shots become, on average...

20 hits
30 hits with MWBD
23.33 hits with exploding 6s
23.33 hits with rerolling 1s
40.83 hits with MWBD, exploding 6s, and rerolling 1s

The last one does (if within half-range) 22.69 wounds to a GEQ squad, 13.61 to MEQs, 9.07 to TEQs, and 6.81 wounds to Knights, Rhinos, anything T6-9 with a 3+ save.

Expensive, but reasonably brutal.

Edit: Also, I was wrong earlier. What the hell is a Voidscythe?


Amazing. Mephrit is really pretty top tier when it comes to shooting, even if we don't have Dark Reapers.

Voidscythe is a Power Fist. Sx2, AP-4, Damage 3, -1 to hit with it. For around double the price of a Warscythe. I don't know if I'd take it, but if I had 9 points sitting around and a dude already with a Warscythe, I'd consider it. Could go around punking things with a CCB at S10.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 16:33:38


Post by: unitled


 Klowny wrote:
 unitled wrote:
Methodical Destruction adds +1 to hit rolls when I've caused an unsaved wound to a unit... This is a nice cheeky pick for Sautekh Teslamortals, right? Roll one at a time until an unsaved wound lands, then the remaining Immortals are triggering 3 hits on a 5+ (4+ with MWBD)?

EDIT: Means Imotekh flanked with 2 x 10 Tesla mortals can really shred whatever they point their weapons at, with an extra CP to fire the ability and a 1/3 chance to regain it if you take the Sautekh warlord trait...!


It also means, sautekh vehicles go crazy (vehicles should only be taken in sautek IMO, the buff to the TA and DDA are phenomenal). Pair this with the stalkers buff, you now spend 1 CP to get a TA and DDA hitting on 2's Rerolling 1's with their stupid dakka.

Can MD be triggered by a MW?


The wording is 'after a Sautekh unit from your army has inflicted an unsaved wound' so... I guess so?

Ran the maths and with MWBW and MD combined on a fresh unit is 36.6 hits on average, if you've hit them with a Stalker that's 42.7 (sadly you can't trigger MD off a Stalker ). Not as much damage as Mephrit against MEQs due to the lack of AP, but then you're also benefiting from the Sautekh code everywhere else.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 16:38:11


Post by: Requizen


Just updated my Excel Calculator from Index points. All my lists went down 100 points at least, some as much as 250 points (mostly the ones with multiple Destroyers). That's quite a change. The Wraithspam list went up in points, of course, but that's to be expected.

Even just ~150 points from existing lists is a lot of new wiggle room. That's an entire unit that we get to slap in. Characters and Destroyres getting cheaper really opened up a lot of flexibility in our builds.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 16:41:40


Post by: skoffs


So in regards to our flyers:
- Night Scythes still lack the TRANSPORT keyword, so unless I'm missing something, anything that gets out can't charge that turn.
- Doom Scythes still get -1 to hit when shooting their big gun (right?)

In that those were the only two things we were hoping for with these two units, all I can say is, "What the hell, GW?"


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 16:45:56


Post by: Requizen


 skoffs wrote:
So in regards to our flyers:
- Night Scythes still lack the TRANSPORT keyword, so unless I'm missing something, anything that gets out can't charge that turn.
- Doom Scythes still get -1 to hit when shooting their big gun (right?)

In that those were the only two things we were hoping for with these two units, all I can say is, "What the hell, GW?"


Nothing prevents you from charging after disembarking? I haven't played 40k in a while but I'm pretty sure that's the case. The downside to not having Transport is that you can't let out 2 units and you can't let out after death, but now there are Strats for that.

Sautekh Doom Scythes can move and shoot without penalty, for what that's worth.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 16:47:11


Post by: Darsath


Requizen wrote:
 skoffs wrote:
So in regards to our flyers:
- Night Scythes still lack the TRANSPORT keyword, so unless I'm missing something, anything that gets out can't charge that turn.
- Doom Scythes still get -1 to hit when shooting their big gun (right?)

In that those were the only two things we were hoping for with these two units, all I can say is, "What the hell, GW?"


Nothing prevents you from charging after disembarking? I haven't played 40k in a while but I'm pretty sure that's the case. The downside to not having Transport is that you can't let out 2 units and you can't let out after death, but now there are Strats for that.

Sautekh Doom Scythes can move and shoot without penalty, for what that's worth.


Almost right. The problem isn't that you can't charge, it's that you can't move.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 16:48:56


Post by: Requizen


Darsath wrote:
Requizen wrote:
 skoffs wrote:
So in regards to our flyers:
- Night Scythes still lack the TRANSPORT keyword, so unless I'm missing something, anything that gets out can't charge that turn.
- Doom Scythes still get -1 to hit when shooting their big gun (right?)

In that those were the only two things we were hoping for with these two units, all I can say is, "What the hell, GW?"


Nothing prevents you from charging after disembarking? I haven't played 40k in a while but I'm pretty sure that's the case. The downside to not having Transport is that you can't let out 2 units and you can't let out after death, but now there are Strats for that.

Sautekh Doom Scythes can move and shoot without penalty, for what that's worth.


Almost right. The problem isn't that you can't charge, it's that you can't move.

Yeah, that's a problem, but now it's much less risky to just fly up as close as possible with the NScythes since you can just Emergency Invasion Beam dudes out.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 16:53:26


Post by: Darsath


Requizen wrote:
Darsath wrote:
Requizen wrote:
 skoffs wrote:
So in regards to our flyers:
- Night Scythes still lack the TRANSPORT keyword, so unless I'm missing something, anything that gets out can't charge that turn.
- Doom Scythes still get -1 to hit when shooting their big gun (right?)

In that those were the only two things we were hoping for with these two units, all I can say is, "What the hell, GW?"


Nothing prevents you from charging after disembarking? I haven't played 40k in a while but I'm pretty sure that's the case. The downside to not having Transport is that you can't let out 2 units and you can't let out after death, but now there are Strats for that.

Sautekh Doom Scythes can move and shoot without penalty, for what that's worth.


Almost right. The problem isn't that you can't charge, it's that you can't move.

Yeah, that's a problem, but now it's much less risky to just fly up as close as possible with the NScythes since you can just Emergency Invasion Beam dudes out.


Only if it's the last one that gets destroyed. However, you can spend a command point to deploy 2 units out instead of 1. The problem is that the units are too expensive (hell, the Monolith is still nearly 400 points).


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 16:58:21


Post by: Requizen


Darsath wrote:
Requizen wrote:
Darsath wrote:
Requizen wrote:
 skoffs wrote:
So in regards to our flyers:
- Night Scythes still lack the TRANSPORT keyword, so unless I'm missing something, anything that gets out can't charge that turn.
- Doom Scythes still get -1 to hit when shooting their big gun (right?)

In that those were the only two things we were hoping for with these two units, all I can say is, "What the hell, GW?"


Nothing prevents you from charging after disembarking? I haven't played 40k in a while but I'm pretty sure that's the case. The downside to not having Transport is that you can't let out 2 units and you can't let out after death, but now there are Strats for that.

Sautekh Doom Scythes can move and shoot without penalty, for what that's worth.


Almost right. The problem isn't that you can't charge, it's that you can't move.

Yeah, that's a problem, but now it's much less risky to just fly up as close as possible with the NScythes since you can just Emergency Invasion Beam dudes out.


Only if it's the last one that gets destroyed. However, you can spend a command point to deploy 2 units out instead of 1. The problem is that the units are too expensive (hell, the Monolith is still nearly 400 points).


Yeah Monolith is clearly not worth it still. Well, maybe a bit more than previously since you can support it better, but still.

However, I think NScythes are decently priced, I'd highly consider bringing just one with a unit of Lychguard inside. Fly it up, and unless they can completely surround it and kill it in a single turn (one or the other is no good), Lychguard will get out and go chop chop. No reason to bring multiple anymore unless you really want to play the cup and ball game with them.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 17:05:09


Post by: Drakmord


I'll always want more for Destroyers but the point drop and returning to s6 -- after, what, 10 years? -- makes me happy. And an extra shot!

Tomb Blades still outperform them within Solar Fury range but Destroyers pull ahead against multi-wound targets and higher Toughness values.

Pretty disappointed that Lychguard only went down for shield and sword builds. However they may come in handy against a very specific Tau list, so time will tell if that becomes a meta concern.

Our relics are weird. Of those not specific to Dynasties, I like the Lightning Field and Weave the most. CCB appreciates the LF the most since it lacks an invuln save, but Crypteks and Lords may like it as well. A Cloaktek can fly around supporting faster units like Destroyers or Wraiths, and HI to inflict mortal wounds if you really want to.

The Casket is for Destroyer Lords only and you really have to expect to be getting beat up for it to be what you want to take. The Weave would be better here, right?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 17:10:48


Post by: necrontyrOG


I'm just happy that Monolith's can port things around the board again (even though it does take a stratagem,) and EXPLODING SCARABS ARE BACK!!! These little buggers were the bane of my friends' terminators and tanks back in 3rd edition White Dwarf rules. Loving all the fun relics too. This is going to be a fun book for me.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 17:11:44


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Gauss cannons are Heavy 3 S6. Just like in 3rd ed.
This makes me very happy. And they didn't even get a points increase!


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 17:16:37


Post by: Requizen


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Gauss cannons are Heavy 3 S6. Just like in 3rd ed.
This makes me very happy. And they didn't even get a points increase!


Destroyers even went down

I've always loved Destroyers, now that they're quite improved I'm going to be writing a lot of lists that include them. Heavy Destroyers came down too, bu they're still fairly expensive for single shots. I think I'd rather take more regular Destroyers and get the volume of fire.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 17:22:09


Post by: Drakmord


On the page with Dynastic codes is a line for choosing a dynasty which is not on the given list. "You can choose the Dynastic Code that best suits the fighting style and strategies of those who hail from it."

You know that old classic Maynarkh strategy? The one where they're made out of space gold and get 6" advance moves??


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 17:25:14


Post by: changemod


Heavy destroyers strike me as immensely valuable in light of Necrons poor anti-vehicle/anti-monster capabilities. Compared to other lascannon batteries they aren't all that badly costed given their mobility without penalty, (more use for line of sight than range I grant you), flight, durability and reroll of ones to hit.

Low volume of fire sure, but still a good weapon role given the rest of the codex.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 17:29:52


Post by: buddha


changemod wrote:
Heavy destroyers strike me as immensely valuable in light of Necrons poor anti-vehicle/anti-monster capabilities. Compared to other lascannon batteries they aren't all that badly costed given their mobility without penalty, (more use for line of sight than range I grant you), flight, durability and reroll of ones to hit.

Low volume of fire sure, but still a good weapon role given the rest of the codex.


Just like the index, unfortunately, I still think DDAs are better dedicated Anti-tank. Pure HD groups are still very easy to focus down unfortunately.

However, with the price reduction a destroyer wing with units of 3 regular Ds with a single heavy D a piece might be tasty.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 17:33:28


Post by: Red Corsair


Yea, I think some folks are jumping the gun on tomb blades a bit. 41 points each and they have to kiss the enemy for max damage means I'd rather take destroyers any day of the week. You figure it's easier to keep a cryptek near the destroyers which means they easily get the 5++ but have an extra wound and they naturally reroll 1's... That unit is absolutely disgusting. Especially with stratagems, just pay 1cp and keep them off the table to stop the alpha, then drop one brick in near a normal lord and cryptek and spend the 1 cp destroyer startagem on the other unit and just melt all the things. I mean, even they can drop into half range and prevent most things from getting any save.

Don't get me wrong, tomb blades are still good, just not nearly as god tier as I first thought. They get expensive fast and your still only inflicting single damage.

Wraiths literally make lychguard worthless even with the increase. Sure they are 20 points more, but they don't need their hand held or any tricks to make them work. S6 -2 d2 plus an advance and charge strat plus they can leave combat and re engage, PLUS they ignore obsticles and models and still have a better invuln then sword and board guard.

Scarabs are hilarious as well. Only 13ppm and still very useful. Especially now that they can blow up, imagine striping the last wounds off someone like guilliman.



Also here is a big question for you all, I cannot find a single line preventing you from reusing powers of the C'tan. Unless this is day one FAQ'd or I missed something, you can just take a vault and use sky of falling stars 3 times in a row. Then burn a CP out of spite and roll for one more!

The stratagems are insane from this book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 buddha wrote:
changemod wrote:
Heavy destroyers strike me as immensely valuable in light of Necrons poor anti-vehicle/anti-monster capabilities. Compared to other lascannon batteries they aren't all that badly costed given their mobility without penalty, (more use for line of sight than range I grant you), flight, durability and reroll of ones to hit.

Low volume of fire sure, but still a good weapon role given the rest of the codex.


Just like the index, unfortunately, I still think DDAs are better dedicated Anti-tank. Pure HD groups are still very easy to focus down unfortunately.

However, with the price reduction a destroyer wing with units of 3 regular Ds with a single heavy D a piece might be tasty.


The key is taking full 6 man standard units. Maybe splash one heavy. Then burn the stratagem. They will nuke most things fairly easily. Thats not including other stratagems like exploding 6's or the sautek mortal wound one.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 17:37:44


Post by: Darsath


 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea, I think some folks are jumping the gun on tomb blades a bit. 41 points each and they have to kiss the enemy for max damage means I'd rather take destroyers any day of the week. You figure it's easier to keep a cryptek near the destroyers which means they easily get the 5++ but have an extra wound and they naturally reroll 1's... That unit is absolutely disgusting. Especially with stratagems, just pay 1cp and keep them off the table to stop the alpha, then drop one brick in near a normal lord and cryptek and spend the 1 cp destroyer startagem on the other unit and just melt all the things. I mean, even they can drop into half range and prevent most things from getting any save.

Don't get me wrong, tomb blades are still good, just not nearly as god tier as I first thought. They get expensive fast and your still only inflicting single damage.

Wraiths literally make lychguard worthless even with the increase. Sure they are 20 points more, but they don't need their hand held or any tricks to make them work. S6 -2 d2 plus an advance and charge strat plus they can leave combat and re engage, PLUS they ignore obsticles and models and still have a better invuln then sword and board guard.

Scarabs are hilarious as well. Only 13ppm and still very useful. Especially now that they can blow up, imagine striping the last wounds off someone like guilliman.



Also here is a big question for you all, I cannot find a single line preventing you from reusing powers of the C'tan. Unless this is day one FAQ'd or I missed something, you can just take a vault and use sky of falling stars 3 times in a row. Then burn a CP out of spite and roll for one more!

The stratagems are insane from this book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 buddha wrote:
changemod wrote:
Heavy destroyers strike me as immensely valuable in light of Necrons poor anti-vehicle/anti-monster capabilities. Compared to other lascannon batteries they aren't all that badly costed given their mobility without penalty, (more use for line of sight than range I grant you), flight, durability and reroll of ones to hit.

Low volume of fire sure, but still a good weapon role given the rest of the codex.


Just like the index, unfortunately, I still think DDAs are better dedicated Anti-tank. Pure HD groups are still very easy to focus down unfortunately.

However, with the price reduction a destroyer wing with units of 3 regular Ds with a single heavy D a piece might be tasty.


The key is taking full 6 man standard units. Maybe splash one heavy. Then burn the stratagem. They will nuke most things fairly easily. Thats not including other stratagems like exploding 6's or the sautek mortal wound one.


For the Tesseract Vault, it states that you can use a number of different powers of the c'tan. Emphasis on the word different.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 17:41:09


Post by: Requizen


Where are you getting 41 points for a Tomb Blade? Base + 2 guns is 32. Shieldvanes or Shadowlooms are, imo, one or the other, don't need both. I could live without Nebuloscopes, personally. 34/35 points per model is quite reasonable for a fast, durable, shooty unit, imo.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 17:55:07


Post by: FireSkullz2


Two potential lists from playing around with what I own and what sounds good.

List 1: Are Deathmarks that good?
Spoiler:

Pretty Simple Stuff, Lord if he gets that reroll wounds of 1 bubble, 12 points to play for upgrades
Mephrit Outrider- 1333 pts
Cryptek-Cloak, SoL, (Relic/Warlord?)
7x Deathmarks
8x Deathmarks
9x Tomb Blades- 3x Shadow, 6x Shield, Tesla
9x Tomb Blades- 3x Shadow, 6x Shield, Tesla
9x Tomb Blades- 3x Shadow, 6x Shield, Gauss

Nihilakh Spearhead- 662
Lord-SoL
3x DDA



List 2: No, I prefer buffs and beatsticks
Spoiler:

Also Self Explanatory
Mephrit Outrider- 1345 pts
Cryptek-Cloak, SoL, (Relic/Warlord?)
CCB-Tesla Cannon, SoL (Relic/Warlord?)
Nightbringer
9x Tomb Blades- 3x Shadow, 6x Shield, Tesla
8x Tomb Blades- 2x Shadow, 6x Shield, Tesla
8x Tomb Blades- 2x Shadow, 6x Shield, Gauss
Nihilakh Spearhead- 655
Lord-Sword
3x DDA



More than likely will try list 2 first. Any Input?







Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 17:57:37


Post by: Red Corsair


Requizen wrote:
Where are you getting 41 points for a Tomb Blade? Base + 2 guns is 32. Shieldvanes or Shadowlooms are, imo, one or the other, don't need both. I could live without Nebuloscopes, personally. 34/35 points per model is quite reasonable for a fast, durable, shooty unit, imo.


If you don't make them as durable as possible then your gona lose them fast even with the -1 to hit. If you take the 5++ but not the +1 armor your setting yourself up. I run lists that spam heavy bolter equivalent shooting and then multi damage. If you run with just the shadowloom suddenly HB type weapons make that 5++ a worthless investment. Makes no sense not to take the most durable loadout after you have spent so much per 2 wound model.

Even at 35, they are far from broken. Your not gona get double tap range on most armies due to screens unless you shoot the screen, which is counter productive. It;s why screening works so well. So 9 points per shot at 12" is good but not great. A quad HB rapier is 76, thats only 6.3 per shot at 36". I just think destroyers are way better having seen the leak now. Use 1cp per unit to hide them turn one, drop them in wherever you need them and screen them out with nearby buufs and they are Vastly better. 2+ in cover, with a 5++ and 3 wounds each and they have better gun vs everything plus an insane stratagem.

Maybe I am mis remembering the stratagem wording BTW but you definitely want the 3+ save on those bikes with the +1 save strat. Makes your 5++ a 4++ and that 3+ a 2+... So like I said, they are far from cheap for their damage output.

I mean, consider the deepsrike strat I just mentioned. It makes even warriors more efficient per shot per point against horde. You get a 6 point shot, both are wounding guardsmen on a 3 and both from mephrit ignore the save. We can then argue durability, but I need to take warriors already, and they do the same job.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 18:00:15


Post by: Lothmar


Until I remembered monoliths were at the end of the movement phase with their orbital drop I was all 'YES!' because I was imagining dropping them all and then transporting out a bunch of forces with the new strat and then rushing them into melee with monolith firesupport. *chuckle*

I mean~ I guess I could still use 1 or 2 monoliths as concealment and deploy my forces in a corner at the start and then grand illusion them up and from there, spend 1cp per monolith to transport my melee guys or half range shooters in via portal.

Could even keep 1 unit off planet and use a cp to emergency beam in a shooter or further support in a pinch I suppose since the monoliths ass is so thicc and unlikely the enemy completely wrapped it.

Granted the effectiveness of this would probably only really shine dependent on us going first. Any thoughts on this strat or potential refinement?

Might cut it down to 1 mono if I feel the need to bring a boatload (ghost ark) of leadership, at which point if I get a 3 on the GI (which I think was d3 units, it's been awhile though) I can always just take up another shooting unit into position.




Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 18:00:42


Post by: Requizen


 Red Corsair wrote:
Requizen wrote:
Where are you getting 41 points for a Tomb Blade? Base + 2 guns is 32. Shieldvanes or Shadowlooms are, imo, one or the other, don't need both. I could live without Nebuloscopes, personally. 34/35 points per model is quite reasonable for a fast, durable, shooty unit, imo.


If you don't make them as durable as possible then your gona lose them fast even with the -1 to hit. If you take the 5++ but not the +1 armor your setting yourself up. I run lists that spam heavy bolter equivalent shooting and then multi damage. If you run with just the shadowloom suddenly HB type weapons make that 5++ a worthless investment. Makes no sense not to take the most durable loadout after you have spent so much per 2 wound model.

Even at 35, they are far from broken. Your not gona get double tap range on most armies due to screens unless you shoot the screen, which is counter productive. It;s why screening works so well. So 9 points per shot at 12" is good but not great. A quad HB rapier is 76, thats only 6.3 per shot at 36". I just think destroyers are way better having seen the leak now. Use 1cp per unit to hide them turn one, drop them in wherever you need them and screen them out with nearby buufs and they are Vastly better. 2+ in cover, with a 5++ and 3 wounds each and they have better gun vs everything plus an insane stratagem.

Maybe I am mis remembering the stratagem wording BTW but you definitely want the 3+ save on those bikes with the +1 save strat. Makes your 5++ a 4++ and that 3+ a 2+... So like I said, they are far from cheap for their damage output.

I mean, consider the deepsrike strat I just mentioned. It makes even warriors more efficient per shot per point against horde. You get a 6 point shot, both are wounding guardsmen on a 3 and both from mephrit ignore the save. We can then argue durability, but I need to take warriors already, and they do the same job.


I don't think Blades are the new Scatbike, but imo 35 is more than fair for them. I don't want to be imbalanced anyway, nobody liked Codex: Scatbike.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 18:04:56


Post by: Red Corsair


Not making that argument. I like them where they are at and plan on taking ONE unit. I think spamming them is a massive error however. They still utterly suck verse vehicles and the fact they want to get in close sets them up to things like smite and close combat. One unit will run a lot of utility and work as a super annoying target which is what you want. I unit of them, one unit of wraiths and one unit of destroyers will be my base more then likely in competitive games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW did anyone get around to my question regarding powers of the C'tan? I see no current reason you cannot reuse the powers. Was there an old FAQ I missed.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 18:11:43


Post by: Darsath


 Red Corsair wrote:
Not making that argument. I like them where they are at and plan on taking ONE unit. I think spamming them is a massive error however. They still utterly suck verse vehicles and the fact they want to get in close sets them up to things like smite and close combat. One unit will run a lot of utility and work as a super annoying target which is what you want. I unit of them, one unit of wraiths and one unit of destroyers will be my base more then likely in competitive games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW did anyone get around to my question regarding powers of the C'tan? I see no current reason you cannot reuse the powers. Was there an old FAQ I missed.


I did. It says you can use 3 different powers of the C'tan. They need to be different, not the same.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 18:13:00


Post by: ski107


Anyone else notice the different in the Ghost Ark repair barge wording?

It used to say: " In addition, at the end of each of your Movement phases, you can make Reanimation Protocol rolls for any slain models from a single DYNASTY Warriors unit within 3" of the Ghost Ark. You cannot use this ability on a unit that has been targeted with a resurrection orb this turn."

Emphasis on the "Single".

It doesn't specify a single unit anymore. It reads as though any unit of warriors within 3" can have RP rerolled... which is a little insane.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 18:13:13


Post by: gungo


Nothing stays OP in this edition for long. The good news is the next nerf bat comes in the March faq update...look to see if they adjust shining spears to see how your tomb blades will Fair in the September/October chapter approved beating. 6 months to buy, build, paint, and spam the newest shiny probably isn’t the best way to go about it.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 18:14:20


Post by: Doctoralex


What do you guys think of a Snipe-barge?

Take the Mephrit Dynasty, equip a CCB with the relic, the Voltiac Staff and a Gauss Cannon. Take the Mephrit Warlord trait and you can shoot characters.

the staff does: Assault 3, 18" (thanks to the Mephrit Warlord Trait) 3 shots, S6 AP-3 D2, Wound rolls of 6+ cause an additional Mortal Wound.

Then the Gauss Cannon: heavy 3, 24" S6 AP-3 D3 dmg.

Even an extra -1ap if you are at half range (though you probably wont need it)

I think it's great if there is stuff like a Pain/Weirdboy, SM Lieutenant, Tau Ethereal/Fireblade and the likes on the field.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 18:16:56


Post by: changemod


I don't see much point in the invulnerable truth be told, you're already punishing harder hitting, lower rate of fire weapons with the to hit penalty.

Better to focus on the 3+ to boost survivability against the majority of threats.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 18:18:12


Post by: Therion


 Red Corsair wrote:
Not making that argument. I like them where they are at and plan on taking ONE unit. I think spamming them is a massive error however. They still utterly suck verse vehicles and the fact they want to get in close sets them up to things like smite and close combat. One unit will run a lot of utility and work as a super annoying target which is what you want. I unit of them, one unit of wraiths and one unit of destroyers will be my base more then likely in competitive games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW did anyone get around to my question regarding powers of the C'tan? I see no current reason you cannot reuse the powers. Was there an old FAQ I missed.


Yeah you missed it. It clearly says different powers per turn. You can't re-use.

Secondly, Shieldvane Tomb Blades at 35 points are still a steal. They can reliably benefit from the Mephrit code, and -1 to be hit is an immense buff in durability. They also got a cheap firepower gem available to them.

Destroyers aren't bad, but they're still glass cannons and will never ever get to use RP. EDIT:

I think some posters here are on the right track with maxing Tomb Blades and then looking at how best to get the C'tan powers. Deceiver certainly looks good to me because of his Grand Illusion happening after roll to start the game and seize the initiative, like RG/AL/ADMech infiltrate stratagems. Necrons will need some deployment options, because they can't just cover the midfield and eliminate drop zones with Space Marine Scouts.






Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 18:26:19


Post by: Requizen


I would definitely consider Nephrakh if I was going Destroyers. A unit of 6 that I can hide for 1CP is so worth it, they don't get much from the other Dynasties anyway (extra AP is a bit win-more, they already reroll 1s, don't want to be in combat, and can move and shoot Heavy anyway).


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 18:26:36


Post by: Lothmar


…I forget, can a character split their shots? I remembered that units could but wanted to make sure. Haven't even thought about this games mechanics for a few months now since I've been waiting for this stuff.
Saw the solar staffs assault 6 and 'units hit by this cannot make overwatch and -1 to hit for the rest of the turn' and thought "That's a good melee support item." especially since its only 'hit' and not 'wounded'. So if I go 3 attacks at 2 different untis thats likely two units that wont be overwatching the boys.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 18:28:26


Post by: Requizen


Lothmar wrote:
…I forget, can a character split their shots? I remembered that units could but wanted to make sure. Haven't even thought about this games mechanics for a few months now since I've been waiting for this stuff.
Saw the solar staffs assault 6 and 'units hit by this cannot make overwatch and -1 to hit for the rest of the turn' and thought "That's a good melee support item." especially since its only 'hit' and not 'wounded'. So if I go 3 attacks at 2 different untis thats likely two units that wont be overwatching the boys.


Pretty sure you can't split individual guns, so Characters have to all hit the same unit. Still good for shutting down something that's shooting at your Wraiths, Lychguard, or Flayed Ones.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 18:32:57


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


Man, people were meh on the Sautekh traits, but I can't see the reason not to run a Battalion of Imotekh, Lord, and 3x10 Tesla Immortals in every competitive army build, unless they've nerfed the Tesla mechanic somehow.

+4CP
CP back on 5+
MWBD 2 units
Sautekh Stratagem for +1hit
= 2 units of Immortals triggering Tesla effect on 4+

A side board of Nephrek Outrider detach seems good as well, for Advance 6" + Charge Wraiths, and a big Destroyer unit you can hide in Deepstrike to protect from Alpha.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 18:41:01


Post by: Red Corsair


Requizen wrote:
I would definitely consider Nephrakh if I was going Destroyers. A unit of 6 that I can hide for 1CP is so worth it, they don't get much from the other Dynasties anyway (extra AP is a bit win-more, they already reroll 1s, don't want to be in combat, and can move and shoot Heavy anyway).


Yea thats the strat I was referring to. It's so good, I play lucius admech regularly and the ability to protect your alpha units is just bonkers.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 18:43:46


Post by: MinscS2


Can someone explain to me how Flayed Ones ended up at 17 ppm?

Let's ignore the fact that they are horribly expensive (moneywise) direct GW-only models in failcast.

They are 1 wound, T4 models with a 4+ save.
They have no shooting.
They are decent at melee at best. (3 Attacks isn't amazing, and while rerolling to wound is good, lack of any AP and Damage is not.)
They're not even Troops.

They have innate deepstrike, but no other way to help them reach combat.

Explain in what world 20 of them is worth 340 pts, especially when you can get 10 Sword'n'bord Lychguard for the exact same pricetag (or 6 Wraiths for 330 pts.)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 18:54:41


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Oh wow, Ghost Arks now affect any warrior squad within 3".
Which means you can now have that formation I suggested back when the index was released, where you have an ark surrounded by 4 blocks of warriors, periodically embarking a squad when it gets too low.

Doom scythes still suffer -1 to hit for using its primary weapon. Lame.

I like how they reference the 3rd ed tagline for the Code of War section. Their Number is Legion, Their Name is Death.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 18:56:57


Post by: Red Corsair


 Therion wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
Not making that argument. I like them where they are at and plan on taking ONE unit. I think spamming them is a massive error however. They still utterly suck verse vehicles and the fact they want to get in close sets them up to things like smite and close combat. One unit will run a lot of utility and work as a super annoying target which is what you want. I unit of them, one unit of wraiths and one unit of destroyers will be my base more then likely in competitive games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW did anyone get around to my question regarding powers of the C'tan? I see no current reason you cannot reuse the powers. Was there an old FAQ I missed.


Yeah you missed it. It clearly says different powers per turn. You can't re-use.

Secondly, Shieldvane Tomb Blades at 35 points are still a steal. They can reliably benefit from the Mephrit code, and -1 to be hit is an immense buff in durability. They also got a cheap firepower gem available to them.

Destroyers aren't bad, but they're still glass cannons and will never ever get to use RP. EDIT:





Glass canon my ass mate. 6 of them is 18 T5 wounds with a 2+ in cover and a 5++ from a cryptek, more importantly they have the range on their guns to dictate where they fight. 9 blades have the same wounds, worse save but are harder to hit. Crucially they need to get point blank, meaning you can cock block them with chaf. Their guns are also MUCH worse. Your also acting as though the 3rd wound is unimportant. Having 3 wounds in 8th is like the difference between toughness 4 and 5 and instant death in 7th. Half the guns in my other armies either do a flat 2 damage or average 2. It means destroyers are actually alot more durable then your giving credit. Any list that can clear a full unit of 6 in cover will also clear 9 blades.

9x35=315

6x50=300





Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 18:58:39


Post by: Requizen


The new flying Cryptek is going to make keeping Destroyers and Tomb Blades alive so much easier, as well.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 19:01:20


Post by: Arachnofiend


So something worth mentioning, the full codex leak that's been going around is dated from last October. While many things are likely to be the same (as we've already seen with the dynasty codes) I wouldn't be surprised if points costs are shifted around in the final product, possibly even more than that.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 19:01:40


Post by: Red Corsair


Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Man, people were meh on the Sautekh traits, but I can't see the reason not to run a Battalion of Imotekh, Lord, and 3x10 Tesla Immortals in every competitive army build, unless they've nerfed the Tesla mechanic somehow.

+4CP
CP back on 5+
MWBD 2 units
Sautekh Stratagem for +1hit
= 2 units of Immortals triggering Tesla effect on 4+

A side board of Nephrek Outrider detach seems good as well, for Advance 6" + Charge Wraiths, and a big Destroyer unit you can hide in Deepstrike to protect from Alpha.


Yup, plus Imoteks storm ability is acutally really good. Just use a command reroll and your talking about an average of 4 MW's before any bounce. That is a savage ability. "Hey nice -2 to hit reapers, pick up 4 of them mate." Helps him recoup his cost plus he is the equivalent of two overlords. That is some moocho savings. Plus the regain CP's is killer.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 19:04:29


Post by: MinscS2


 Arachnofiend wrote:
So something worth mentioning, the full codex leak that's been going around is dated from last October. While many things are likely to be the same (as we've already seen with the dynasty codes) I wouldn't be surprised if points costs are shifted around in the final product, possibly even more than that.


Fingers crossed.

The final product goes into production well before it goes up for preorder however. While the beta-codex is dated around october/november, the final print went into production weeks ago, if not months.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 19:05:17


Post by: Requizen


 Arachnofiend wrote:
So something worth mentioning, the full codex leak that's been going around is dated from last October. While many things are likely to be the same (as we've already seen with the dynasty codes) I wouldn't be surprised if points costs are shifted around in the final product, possibly even more than that.


It's possible that it has changed, but remember than editing and printing is a long process. They may have finalized points and abilities in October and have been waiting until recently to release because of printing issues or waiting on the new Cryptek sculpt and Forgebane.

But you're right, these aren't final until someone is literally holding the book. It's a good predictor, though, and I doubt we'll see the Strats/Traits/Artifacts change much if at all.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 19:10:28


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


Some initial thought on the dynasties looking at all the bonuses together:

Sautekh

They get 4 named characters that the others can't have. Code is not too exciting, but the stratagem and WL trait are great. Any list with a decent amount of shooting will do ok out of this Dynasty, it doesn't force you to focus on specific builds.

Nihilakh

Trazyn! lol, moving on. Reroll 1s if you don't move is decent but not mind blowing. That Stratagem though! 2+ invul saves anyone? Full unit of wraith within 3" of an objective or Sheild Lychguard if you activate their other strat. Or maybe a 2+ Sv monolith dropped onto an objective. WL trait and relic are pap. So some kind of gunline army that tries to pull something clever with the stratagem seems best.

Novokh

It's all about assault here. The Code, Strat, Relic and WL trait are all about getting extra attacks or hits. Kind of straight forward and one dimensional.

Nephrekh

Their Code is so cool! Everything teleports around! not that powerful though unfortunatly. It does combo well with the strat for making canoptek units charge after advancing though. The stat is amazing! It's webway strike but as far as I can see there is no restriction on the number of uses, reserve as much as you want for 1cp per unit! WL trait is ok and the relic is nice. The wording seems odd to me, it looks like it stacks with every hit so you could put someone at -6 to hit in your fight phase.

Mephrit

Obviously the stand out Code, people have already started the number crunching on what it can do. As an extra surprise though the WL trait and relic combo they have seems nasty. That staff is a pretty powerful gun to be sniping characters with at 18". Take it on a CCB for another powerful sniping gun.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 19:24:20


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Nephrekh seems interesting with Tesla units at least. While you don't get the Tesla benefit, you can really abuse the Assault profile mechanic and kinda go where you please.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 19:31:45


Post by: Red Corsair


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Nephrekh seems interesting with Tesla units at least. While you don't get the Tesla benefit, you can really abuse the Assault profile mechanic and kinda go where you please.


Yea, with MWBD you would be firing at normal effect but moving 11 inches a turn on immortals. Alternatively you could just set them up anywhere you want for 1 CP.

I am wondering if the Vault is not close to an auto take. Superheavy auxiliary from mephrit lmao. Or maybe even Nephrek since you can move it up faster to get into optimal powers range. Hilariously you could also 1cp it in, which is easier then a normal monolith because it's only 9" restriction and the oval base makes the footprint smaller. I imagine a tomb spyder and canoptek cryptek healling 2d3 wounds a turn is gona be super irritating while this thing nickle and dimes the enemy all day. The thing just dumps out so many MW's. It really can't be ignored but at the same time is a major PITA to kill.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 19:32:48


Post by: nordsturmking


I don't get the Obelisk 426 points for 20 hits with S7
and if there are 6 untis with fly in 18" i makes 2 mortal wounds on one of them on avagage

3 Annihilation Barges cost 399 give me 24 hits S7 and 9 shots with S6 AP-3 d3 damage.

But on the other hand I really this from FB blog for the bloodgod:
Nanoscarab casket on your warlord makes him tough as nails! Heal D3 wounds at the start of both yours and your opponents turns. Then if he does die on a 4+ he gets back up with D6 wounds... which he continues to heal... what a baller


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 19:35:46


Post by: Red Corsair


Yea I saw that, makes him a beast. Can only be a Dlord though.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 19:37:10


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 MinscS2 wrote:
Can someone explain to me how Flayed Ones ended up at 17 ppm?

Let's ignore the fact that they are horribly expensive (moneywise) direct GW-only models in failcast.

They are 1 wound, T4 models with a 4+ save.
They have no shooting.
They are decent at melee at best. (3 Attacks isn't amazing, and while rerolling to wound is good, lack of any AP and Damage is not.)
They're not even Troops.

They have innate deepstrike, but no other way to help them reach combat.

Explain in what world 20 of them is worth 340 pts, especially when you can get 10 Sword'n'bord Lychguard for the exact same pricetag (or 6 Wraiths for 330 pts.)

My Will Be Done, Nephrekh Code, (granted a random roll but) Nemesor getting Solar Mills off, Ghostwalk Mantle, the Monolith (though that requires building around), the Warlord Trait for rerolling darn charges, and lastly Kutlakh.

They also don't NEED any AP as you're trying to optimize them for a target they don't care for. Just like last edition you want them against chaff. You get maybe 2 Flayed Ones for one Lychguard (I'll do the Sword for this but can do Scythe as well) and how many for a Wraith (I don't know the new price). However, let us calculate for 3 Flayed Ones per Wraith.

I'm not sure if you actually want to do the math or just complain, but Flayed Ones kill 3.6 Guardsmen per the 1.1 of the Lychguard and 1.6 of the Wraith, 1.5 Marines for the 0.7 of the Lychguard and the 0.8 of the Wraith, 4.4 Gaunts per the same values on the Lychguard and Wraith with the Infantry, and so on.

If you wanted them to kill Custodes yeah you should be disappointed.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 19:38:15


Post by: BrotherGecko


Seeing as Triarch units don't get access to dynastic protocols, you would think they would get their points lowered to reflect that lack of attraction to the army. It's not like Triarch units do things you can't get in a dynastic unit.

Or maybe a rule that revolves around the idea that they being triarch have a built in protocol. But no nothing at all. A unit that competes for nothing in the army.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 19:39:14


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 nordsturmking wrote:
I don't get the Obelisk 426 points for 20 hits with S7
and if there are 6 untis with fly in 18" i makes 2 mortal wounds on one of them on avagage

3 Annihilation Barges cost 399 give me 24 hits S7 and 9 shots with S6 AP-3 d3 damage.

But on the other hand I really this from FB blog for the bloodgod:
Nanoscarab casket on your warlord makes him tough as nails! Heal D3 wounds at the start of both yours and your opponents turns. Then if he does die on a 4+ he gets back up with D6 wounds... which he continues to heal... what a baller

You would basically be forced to use the Strategem to turn that value on a 4+. That's gonna be good when we run into other Tomb Blades and Destroyers, Shining Spears, Fire Raptors and such.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BrotherGecko wrote:
Seeing as Triarch units don't get access to dynastic protocols, you would think they would get their points lowered to reflect that lack of attraction to the army. It's not like Triarch units do things you can't get in a dynastic unit.

Or maybe a rule that revolves around the idea that they being triarch have a built in protocol. But no nothing at all. A unit that competes for nothing in the army.

They have Fly and that neat Strategem and they DID get a price cut.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 19:45:15


Post by: MinscS2


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

My Will Be Done, Nephrekh Code, (granted a random roll but) Nemesor getting Solar Mills off, Ghostwalk Mantle, the Monolith (though that requires building around), the Warlord Trait for rerolling darn charges, and lastly Kutlakh.


So it's a 17 ppm-unit that requires help from expensive characters in order to be somewhat viable, and they're still ridiculously squishy.

Guess it's too much to ask for a 340 pts-unit to be self-sustaining in some way.

I really want to like Flayed Ones, but comparing them to Praetorians (320 for 10), Shieldguards (340 for 10) or Wraiths (330 for 6) just makes my shoulders lump.
(And let's not compare them to other squishy T4 melee units, like Genestealers...)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 19:50:20


Post by: BrotherGecko


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BrotherGecko wrote:
Seeing as Triarch units don't get access to dynastic protocols, you would think they would get their points lowered to reflect that lack of attraction to the army. It's not like Triarch units do things you can't get in a dynastic unit.

Or maybe a rule that revolves around the idea that they being triarch have a built in protocol. But no nothing at all. A unit that competes for nothing in the army.

They have Fly and that neat Strategem and they DID get a price cut.


Fly you can get on better units that also do CC better or shoot better and better vehicles that do all the things a stalker does. I acknowledged the point cut, I said if the points got lowered to reflect their lack of attraction being non-dynastic. I mean that it need to be more before I'd consider triarch praetorians or for that matter a stalker.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 19:50:37


Post by: Requizen


 MinscS2 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

My Will Be Done, Nephrekh Code, (granted a random roll but) Nemesor getting Solar Mills off, Ghostwalk Mantle, the Monolith (though that requires building around), the Warlord Trait for rerolling darn charges, and lastly Kutlakh.


So it's a 17 ppm-unit that requires help from expensive characters in order to be somewhat viable, and they're still ridiculously squishy.

Guess it's too much to ask for a 340 pts-unit to be self-sustaining.


Sorta? In my opinion you have to take combos into point amounts, or you end up with situations where a unit goes from "priced appropriately to be played solo" to "insane once you buff it". Similarly, I think Wraiths are a bit expensive for their statline, but you can give them RP, they can potentially run and Charge, Novokh can give them so many combat buffs it's not even funny, etc. I think 17 for a Flayed One might still be a bit on the high side, but imo it's pretty reasonable once all is taken into consideration on the table.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 19:51:38


Post by: Lothmar


Just verifying for my understanding… Transcendant C'tans 'Transdimensional displacement' ability.

since it says 'when this model advances, add 12" to its move characteristic for that movement phase instead of rolling a dice.'

So if I do advance him his movement for the turn is 20" and at the end of it he can use his power/'s… Also since he doesn't have a shooting attack he doesn't lose anything for advancing and can still charge. Just gotta make sure I dont trick myself into trying to effectively go the whole 30" board divider between armies T1 if I go first. *chuckle*

I have a feeling there's a way I can use this in a way im not quite seeing yet ; but when I do I have a feeling this guy is going to become my armies hound of war they let slip turn 1 and somehow manages to get into their line and causes all sorts of confusion while the rest of my forces keep them boxed in so they're relatively trapped in a firing squad cage with him. *chuckle*


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 19:52:33


Post by: JNAProductions


How does he charge after advancing? Stratagem?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 19:53:44


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 MinscS2 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

My Will Be Done, Nephrekh Code, (granted a random roll but) Nemesor getting Solar Mills off, Ghostwalk Mantle, the Monolith (though that requires building around), the Warlord Trait for rerolling darn charges, and lastly Kutlakh.


So it's a 17 ppm-unit that requires help from expensive characters in order to be somewhat viable, and they're still ridiculously squishy.

Guess it's too much to ask for a 340 pts-unit to be self-sustaining.

The Lychguard in your scenario require the same exact help. Only the Wraiths have that natural mobility and stuff.

Also none of those characters are particularly expensive.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 19:57:53


Post by: MinscS2


Requizen wrote:

Sorta? In my opinion you have to take combos into point amounts, or you end up with situations where a unit goes from "priced appropriately to be played solo" to "insane once you buff it".


I disagree, but let's agree to disagree.
A unit should be able to stand on it's own feet and still be viable.
I'm fine with units going insane if you stack buffs on them, that's the way it should be, since you're technically paying for whatever is bringing the buffs as well.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

The Lychguard in your scenario require the same exact help. Only the Wraiths have that natural mobility and stuff.

Also none of those characters are particularly expensive.


True, but unlike Flayed Ones, the LG are resilient on their own, and are a threat to a much wider array of targets, not just chaff and armourless units.

And no, but you're either locking yourself to a certain Dynasty or "wasting" a precious relic slot on making a sub-par unit viable. (or in the Monoliths case, bringing a near 400 point-taxi. )


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 20:26:04


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 MinscS2 wrote:
Requizen wrote:

Sorta? In my opinion you have to take combos into point amounts, or you end up with situations where a unit goes from "priced appropriately to be played solo" to "insane once you buff it".


I disagree, but let's agree to disagree.
A unit should be able to stand on it's own feet and still be viable.
I'm fine with units going insane if you stack buffs on them, that's the way it should be, since you're technically paying for whatever is bringing the buffs as well.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

The Lychguard in your scenario require the same exact help. Only the Wraiths have that natural mobility and stuff.

Also none of those characters are particularly expensive.


True, but unlike Flayed Ones, the LG are resilient on their own, and are a threat to a much wider array of targets, not just chaff and armourless units.

And no, but you're either locking yourself to a certain Dynasty or "wasting" a precious relic slot on making a sub-par unit viable. (or in the Monoliths case, bringing a near 400 point-taxi. )

Lychguard aren't resilient on their own except to D1 weapons. On everything with multi-damage, Flayed Ones win.
That's important to note don't you think. This isn't like with Primaris Marines and the fact that a few of them aren't much more expensive than 1 wound Counterparts.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 20:36:15


Post by: Red Corsair


 BrotherGecko wrote:
Seeing as Triarch units don't get access to dynastic protocols, you would think they would get their points lowered to reflect that lack of attraction to the army. It's not like Triarch units do things you can't get in a dynastic unit.

Or maybe a rule that revolves around the idea that they being triarch have a built in protocol. But no nothing at all. A unit that competes for nothing in the army.


Your acting like their abilities are not being factored in. Praetorians are fearless and make a mockery of lychguard when your looking at cost. They move faster and shoot. Both look lack luster but that is because 2 wound elite models in every army kinda suck. I mean look at a warp talon for example. T4 1 wound, only punch stuff and they are 27ppm and objectively worse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 MinscS2 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

My Will Be Done, Nephrekh Code, (granted a random roll but) Nemesor getting Solar Mills off, Ghostwalk Mantle, the Monolith (though that requires building around), the Warlord Trait for rerolling darn charges, and lastly Kutlakh.


So it's a 17 ppm-unit that requires help from expensive characters in order to be somewhat viable, and they're still ridiculously squishy.

Guess it's too much to ask for a 340 pts-unit to be self-sustaining in some way.

I really want to like Flayed Ones, but comparing them to Praetorians (320 for 10), Shieldguards (340 for 10) or Wraiths (330 for 6) just makes my shoulders lump.
(And let's not compare them to other squishy T4 melee units, like Genestealers...)


I mean what on earth are you expecting? A space marine is 13ppm and is arguably worse for its price since it lacks focus. FO are a 3 attack space marine with a worse save but reanimate, deepsrike and a fear debuff. Oh and with shredding melee weapons. That is about fair for 4 ppm more. Especially when you consider the dynastic codes are much more useful all around then many other races traits. just the deepstrike ability alone is probably worth the increase in points over a normal warrior.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BrotherGecko wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BrotherGecko wrote:
Seeing as Triarch units don't get access to dynastic protocols, you would think they would get their points lowered to reflect that lack of attraction to the army. It's not like Triarch units do things you can't get in a dynastic unit.

Or maybe a rule that revolves around the idea that they being triarch have a built in protocol. But no nothing at all. A unit that competes for nothing in the army.

They have Fly and that neat Strategem and they DID get a price cut.


Fly you can get on better units that also do CC better or shoot better and better vehicles that do all the things a stalker does. I acknowledged the point cut, I said if the points got lowered to reflect their lack of attraction being non-dynastic. I mean that it need to be more before I'd consider triarch praetorians or for that matter a stalker.


Disagree. A praetorian is literally the equivalent of a space marine biker when you think about it, a little slower but with fly, but then it reanimates. It's crazy how cheap some of you fellas are expecting units to be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Requizen wrote:
 MinscS2 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

My Will Be Done, Nephrekh Code, (granted a random roll but) Nemesor getting Solar Mills off, Ghostwalk Mantle, the Monolith (though that requires building around), the Warlord Trait for rerolling darn charges, and lastly Kutlakh.


So it's a 17 ppm-unit that requires help from expensive characters in order to be somewhat viable, and they're still ridiculously squishy.

Guess it's too much to ask for a 340 pts-unit to be self-sustaining.


Sorta? In my opinion you have to take combos into point amounts, or you end up with situations where a unit goes from "priced appropriately to be played solo" to "insane once you buff it". Similarly, I think Wraiths are a bit expensive for their statline, but you can give them RP, they can potentially run and Charge, Novokh can give them so many combat buffs it's not even funny, etc. I think 17 for a Flayed One might still be a bit on the high side, but imo it's pretty reasonable once all is taken into consideration on the table.


Exactly, Anarkyr nearby and Novohk for example makes them crazy good. Back up to 4 attacks each, but hitting on 2's with shredd. Rerolling misses as well. Sure 20 is 340 but your talking about now only needing an 8" charge (MWBD) and having 80 attacks hitting on 2's rerolling with shredding s4 combat weapons. That unit will delete whatever it touches. Thats ~78 hits and verse GEQ it translates to 70 wounds before saves...


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 21:21:23


Post by: MinscS2


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Lychguard aren't resilient on their own except to D1 weapons. On everything with multi-damage, Flayed Ones win.
That's important to note don't you think. This isn't like with Primaris Marines and the fact that a few of them aren't much more expensive than 1 wound Counterparts.


LG are much more resilient against D1 weaponry and small arms fire, and about as resilient against things like plasma due to their 4++.

 Red Corsair wrote:


I mean what on earth are you expecting? A space marine is 13ppm and is arguably worse for its price since it lacks focus. FO are a 3 attack space marine with a worse save but reanimate, deepsrike and a fear debuff. Oh and with shredding melee weapons. That is about fair for 4 ppm more. Especially when you consider the dynastic codes are much more useful all around then many other races traits. just the deepstrike ability alone is probably worth the increase in points over a normal warrior.


Any argument where one compares something to a tactical marine and says "looks good compared to this" falls flat on it's own. Tacticals are regarded as trash by most SM players (at least on these boards).
And they're more like Scouts with combat blades than tactical marines, don't you agree? Same save and both have deployment shenanigans. Suddenly we're looking at more than a 4ppm increase however.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Exactly, Anarkyr nearby and Novohk for example makes them crazy good. Back up to 4 attacks each, but hitting on 2's with shredd. Rerolling misses as well. Sure 20 is 340 but your talking about now only needing an 8" charge (MWBD) and having 80 attacks hitting on 2's rerolling with shredding s4 combat weapons. That unit will delete whatever it touches. Thats ~78 hits and verse GEQ it translates to 70 wounds before saves...


Sweet, so all I need is a named character and/or a specific Dynasty in order to make this 340 pts unit amazing at killing chaff and GEQ's? I'm convinced.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 21:22:22


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Has anyone noticed that there's no range requirement for the disruption shields stratagem? That's a huge buff.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 21:29:00


Post by: MinscS2


Moving on from Flayed Ones.

Unless playing Sautekh/Immotekh, it seems that Necrons will be very starved for CP:
- No artifact that generates CP.
- No warlordtrait that generates CP (other than for Sautekh.)
- No cheap spammable HQs (cheapest being ~85 pts)
- No cheap spammable Troops (cheapest being 12 ppm.)

How do people plan on bringing more than 6-7 CP in a 2000 pts list? Is it even possible without hamstringing yourself?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 21:30:17


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


I'm trying to work out how to fit a battalion in 1k points, because that's what my FLGS plays. And everyone else brings one.
I think its fair that we have no way to generate CP. Our stratagems are pretty powerful, and it seems they replace our unique equipment, which is what defined necrons before.
The fact that necrons warriors are still 12p is pretty dumb. They are not worth that much. Maybe 10 points.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 21:36:16


Post by: Game_maker


Im wondering if anyone has some ideas about how best to equip a command barge. Ive been thinking about how to put some of the artifacts to use in order to improve my command barge. I think that the barge is probably one of the better characters for taking the voidreaper artifact on, as it is able to move quickly and engage high value targets. I'm also kind of wondering if it would be worth it to spend a command point for the lightning field for the 4++. There are four warlord traits that I'm torn between. The Enduring Will trait would synergize with quantum shielding by reducing successful 2 damage wounds to one damage wounds. Honorable Combatant would add D3 attacks with the voidreaper against characters, which would turn the barge even deadlier. The Skin of Living Gold would give the barge a -1 to hit, which would improve its survivability a lot. Finally, if the barge has the lightning field, then the Thrall of the Silent King trait also becomes appealing for the 4 inch mortal wound bubble and the 15 inch wave of command. Does anyone have an idea for how to make this barge as deadly as possible?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 21:38:22


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 MinscS2 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Lychguard aren't resilient on their own except to D1 weapons. On everything with multi-damage, Flayed Ones win.
That's important to note don't you think. This isn't like with Primaris Marines and the fact that a few of them aren't much more expensive than 1 wound Counterparts.


LG are much more resilient against D1 weaponry and small arms fire, and about as resilient against things like plasma due to their 4++.

 Red Corsair wrote:


I mean what on earth are you expecting? A space marine is 13ppm and is arguably worse for its price since it lacks focus. FO are a 3 attack space marine with a worse save but reanimate, deepsrike and a fear debuff. Oh and with shredding melee weapons. That is about fair for 4 ppm more. Especially when you consider the dynastic codes are much more useful all around then many other races traits. just the deepstrike ability alone is probably worth the increase in points over a normal warrior.


Any argument where one compares something to a tactical marine and says "looks good compared to this" falls flat on it's own. Tacticals are regarded as trash by most SM players (at least on these boards).
And they're more like Scouts with combat blades than tactical marines, don't you agree? Same save and both have deployment shenanigans. Suddenly we're looking at more than a 4ppm increase however.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Exactly, Anarkyr nearby and Novohk for example makes them crazy good. Back up to 4 attacks each, but hitting on 2's with shredd. Rerolling misses as well. Sure 20 is 340 but your talking about now only needing an 8" charge (MWBD) and having 80 attacks hitting on 2's rerolling with shredding s4 combat weapons. That unit will delete whatever it touches. Thats ~78 hits and verse GEQ it translates to 70 wounds before saves...


Sweet, so all I need is a named character and/or a specific Dynasty in order to make this 340 pts unit amazing at killing chaff and GEQ's? I'm convinced.

1. Except when you have low AP but multiple damage from weapons like Autocannons and, look at that, Wraiths. It only goes so far.
2. I also said MEQ in general. I know Tactical Marines are trash, but look at Intercessors and stuff for example. The Wraith and Flayed Ones are actually killing them at the same rate nearly (Just double the wounds I showed earlier).
3. Except the Flayed Ones don't NEED that much support. Wraiths need the least support, that's already known.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 21:45:29


Post by: MinscS2


Game_maker wrote:
Im wondering if anyone has some ideas about how best to equip a command barge.


Nightmare Shroud is pretty good as it will give the Barge a 2+, and the Barges large footprint means a massive area for the -1 Ld aura.

Lightning Field is pretty good as it gives the Barge a 4++, and again the large footprint means more potential mortal wounds.

Timesplinter Cloak is pretty good if running Nihilakh. More wounds -> better mileage out of a 5+++.

As for Warlord Traits, there are so many good ones that it boils down to personal taste and playstyle.

Someone mentioned the Mephrit WT alongside the Meprith relic for a ranged character hunter.

Personally I'd run with Implaceable Conqueror (because I'd play Novokh) and Lightning Field since I'd try to get into combat asap, where I'd utilize both the 4++ and the mortal wound-effect.
With the Gauss Cannon and Warscythe we're looking at 169 pts, not too expensive, and pretty tanky with the 3+/4++. Might add a Res Orb as well, again due to the larger footprint granted by the Barge.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 21:59:58


Post by: iGuy91


Anyone happen to notice that some of our vehicles no longer degrade? Like the A-Barge no longer has a block it.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 22:04:34


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 iGuy91 wrote:
Anyone happen to notice that some of our vehicles no longer degrade? Like the A-Barge no longer has a block it.


The A barge never had a block on it. Vehicles with less than 10 wounds never degrade.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 22:05:40


Post by: Arachnofiend


The annihilation barge doesn't degrade in the index, either; as a general rule it's only vehicles with 10+ wounds that have a degrading profile.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 22:13:44


Post by: Acehilator


So, I am not playing Necrons (yet), but considering them as my next army. I have tried reading up on general list concepts etc. and checked the new codex leaks, one question though:

Have Warriors fallen out of favour? Everybody seems to be talking Immortals regarding the Troop slot since the leaks dropped... what am I missing? Mephrit Warriors are looking really good right now.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 22:20:52


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Immortals are only 5 points more for a MUCH better gun and a better save.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 22:24:34


Post by: sieGermans


Doesn’t the “ignore heavy weapon penalty” dynastic trait assist Doom Scythes quite a bit?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 22:24:37


Post by: v0iddrgn


Do Tesla Destructors have more than 1 damage now???


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 22:24:53


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Immortals are only 5 points more for a MUCH better gun and a better save.


You can easily get a battalion with them too.
Its much harder to make a battalion in a low point game (sub 1k) with warriors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
v0iddrgn wrote:
Do Tesla Destructors have more than 1 damage now???


No, doesn't look like it.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 22:41:36


Post by: vipoid


I'm pleased to see that the Destroyer Lord has remained awful.

I'd hate to think that people might not have the privileged of admiring it on my shelf.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 22:47:16


Post by: Klowny


I know how tough INdex Tomb blades were, I ran them extensively at tournaments, and due to points I had to mix and match 3+ and 5+, -1 to hit and get 4+ RP due to the cape-tek, while also shooting 2 shots apiece in sautekh after moving 20” is amazing


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 22:48:01


Post by: vipoid


Any thoughts on the Cryptek Canoptek Cloak?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 22:48:15


Post by: Azuza001


Going through the video he put out, the obelisk doesnt get quantum shielding or an invulnerable save? But the tesseract vault does? If that's the case I am totally redoing my obelisk into a vault, it's so much better. I hope that isn't the case / this turns out to just not be updated yet.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 22:50:22


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 vipoid wrote:
I'm pleased to see that the Destroyer Lord has remained awful.

I'd hate to think that people might not have the privileged of admiring it on my shelf.


Didn't he get like a 15 point price decrease? But yeah, he still isn't great.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 22:53:49


Post by: vipoid


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Didn't he get like a 15 point price decrease? But yeah, he still isn't great.


The issue is that he's a melee unit with relatively poor WS who is only able to buff a single, ranged unit.

IMO he really should have got the 'reroll 1s to wound' aura the regular Lord got. That way he'd both both buff his own melee ability a little and could also buff stuff like Wraiths and Scarabs.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 22:54:21


Post by: Klowny


 vipoid wrote:
Any thoughts on the Cryptek Canoptek Cloak?


Amazing imo.

Now destroyers and Tomb blades get that sweet 4+ rp, and considering how much more powerful our vehicles have gotten, especially in sautekh, given the buffs to QS through stratagems, and how insane the tesseract vault is now I plan to run 2-3 every game


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 22:55:35


Post by: vipoid


 Klowny wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
Any thoughts on the Cryptek Canoptek Cloak?


Amazing imo.

Now destroyers and Tomb blades get that sweet 4+ rp, and considering how much more powerful our vehicles have gotten, especially in sautekh, given the buffs to QS through stratagems, and how insane the tesseract vault is now I plan to run 2-3 every game


That's a good point. What do you think the best artefact(s) would be for a flying cryptek?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 23:02:24


Post by: Pyrothem



issue is that he's a melee unit with relatively poor WS who is only able to buff a single, ranged unit.

IMO he really should have got the 'reroll 1s to wound' aura the regular Lord got. That way he'd both both buff his own melee ability a little and could also buff stuff like Wraiths and Scarabs.


With the artifact healing d3 on BOTH your turn and your opponents and a chance to pop back up TWICE with it and a Strat. I think he could find a way into some lists just like the saint is now.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 23:03:47


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Pyrothem wrote:

issue is that he's a melee unit with relatively poor WS who is only able to buff a single, ranged unit.

IMO he really should have got the 'reroll 1s to wound' aura the regular Lord got. That way he'd both both buff his own melee ability a little and could also buff stuff like Wraiths and Scarabs.


With the artifact healing d3 on BOTH your turn and your opponents and a chance to pop back up TWICE with it and a Strat. I think he could find a way into some lists just like the saint is now.


Yeah, that artifact seems to have been made specifically for him.
I think he's the only unit who can take a phylactery. Which is pretty dumb but there you go.

I like how there are ways to revive characters. Not quite saving entire units, but its a nice thing to have.
I think my favorite warlord trait might be Immortal Pride. It solves so many problems


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 23:13:46


Post by: ThePie


While immortals might be more effective fire power for thier points, i still believe 2 warrior blobs supported by an ghost ark (which apparantly can buff multiple squads at the same time now?) will make an amazing anvil to base your army around.

And what looks like the best way for necrons now to deal with toughness 8 targets? From what i can see we have plenty of ways now to deal with toughness 7 and below, like catacomb command barge with voidreaper, or c'tan shards etc.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 23:16:14


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 ThePie wrote:
While immortals might be more effective fire power for thier points, i still believe 2 warrior blobs supported by an ghost ark (which apparantly can buff multiple squads at the same time now?) will make an amazing anvil to base your army around.



They do. It no longer specifies that it only affects one unit.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 23:17:56


Post by: Doctoralex


Also even better now with Illuminor Szeras, who gets the auto-pass morale in 6" as a Warlord Trait.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 23:21:11


Post by: ThePie


I guess making your warriors morale immune is better than regaining CP's on 5+, since you dont need to use stratagem instead.

This might actually make warriors really effective, since killing 20 of them in a single round without relying on morale losses is actually pretty hard, then 75% of them comes back.

Silver tide is back in business?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 23:24:23


Post by: Doctoralex


 ThePie wrote:
I guess making your warriors morale immune is better than regaining CP's on 5+, since you dont need to use stratagem instead.

This might actually make warriors really effective, since killing 20 of them in a single round without relying on morale losses is actually pretty hard, then 75% of them comes back.

Silver tide is back in business?


mmm depends, theres always the issue that your enemy cán hose down a blob of 20 Warriors if they want to. Though to be honest, if there isn't another threat nearby then you did something wrong.

And also, if only one model remains, you can probably only get a certain amount of new Warriors around him in coherency. Even worse if they surround that one lonely Warrior in combat.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 23:28:24


Post by: Arachnofiend


I'm curious to see how well a 6-man unit of destroyers being fed Extermination Protocols would fare for anti-tank; if my math is right you should be able to do a pretty respectable chunk of damage just through sheer weight of rerolls. It's a much more survivable unit than the 3-man heavy D squad too.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 23:34:50


Post by: Therion


 Arachnofiend wrote:
I'm curious to see how well a 6-man unit of destroyers being fed Extermination Protocols would fare for anti-tank; if my math is right you should be able to do a pretty respectable chunk of damage just through sheer weight of rerolls. It's a much more survivable unit than the 3-man heavy D squad too.


Very well I’d say, The stratagem for Destroyers is amazing, and you can deep strike them all. In fact, 18 Nephrekh Destroyers are very tempting as they are alpha strike protected due to the deep strike stratagem. They are infantry too, so they can benefit from MWBD, and they get automatic cover saves in area terrain. They also benefit from Chronometron. So these guys shoot crazy well, have 4+ rp, 2+/5++ and are alpha protected.

18 might not even be too many. They work like Obliterators.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 23:37:25


Post by: Doctoralex


 Arachnofiend wrote:
I'm curious to see how well a 6-man unit of destroyers being fed Extermination Protocols would fare for anti-tank; if my math is right you should be able to do a pretty respectable chunk of damage just through sheer weight of rerolls. It's a much more survivable unit than the 3-man heavy D squad too.


Could work, though they still only have 24" range. Can be difficult to get those predators in the back.

I'd say take Destroyers for Anti-MEQ and some light-anti tank in a pinch, and then take the buffed DDA for proper anti-tank
.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 23:39:05


Post by: vipoid


Pyrothem wrote:
With the artifact healing d3 on BOTH your turn and your opponents and a chance to pop back up TWICE with it and a Strat. I think he could find a way into some lists just like the saint is now.


The difference is that the Saint has 6 attacks at WS2+ (at basically the same profile as the Destroyer Lord's Warscythe), gives an automatic extra Act of Faith (allowing her to take an extra movement, combat or shooting phase, or heal d3 wounds), has an extra wound, has a better armour save, has a Heavy Flamer, has a better aura and automatically revives on a 2+ once per game on full wounds and anywhere on the battlefield. And that's before we even get into her auto-reviving, bullet-sponge guards. The D. Lord has more touchness, but in every other way the Saint is vastly superior.


All that said, I think you're right in that the Nanoscarab Casket is probably the best artefact for the Destroyer Lord. Given that both revivals are on a 4+ and that he can't teleport to safety like the Saint can, I'd probably be more cautious with him. However, it might make it less risky for him to charge out, which is nice.

I like my Destroyer Lord conversion so I'll probably be trying this out, regardless.

It's just sad that he seems like a model with such wasted potential.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 23:39:29


Post by: Therion


 ThePie wrote:
I guess making your warriors morale immune is better than regaining CP's on 5+, since you dont need to use stratagem instead.

This might actually make warriors really effective, since killing 20 of them in a single round without relying on morale losses is actually pretty hard, then 75% of them comes back.

Silver tide is back in business?


It’s an awesome WL trait, but no. Warriors are too expensive and the 20 strong blobs will die before RP. These aren’t 4p Cultists who roll 30 strong and ALL come back for CPs if you dont kill them all.

Just try to build a list with 700 or more points in Warriors. It’s terrible.

I’m just taking minimum units of Immortals/Deathmarks and maxing out on the useful units.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 23:41:22


Post by: Fenris-77


One HQ and three min squads of Warriors is, what, 240-ish? (Warriors come in min 5?, I haven't even looked at anything less than 20 since the index dropped). I think I might pay that for 3 CPs in a 2K list. Objective campers and you need CPs from somewhere...

It's not great for RP, but I suspect that MSU will get more mileage out of RP given the lesser chance of focus fire. Sucks for MWBD, but there are better targets for that anyway.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 23:44:30


Post by: Arachnofiend


Warriors come in minimum squads of 10. If you want a min squad to sit back and camp objectives then Immortals are both cheaper and tougher.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 23:51:42


Post by: vipoid


Given the changes in cost, any thoughts on Warscythe vs Staff of Light for HQs?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 23:55:27


Post by: Acehilator


Regarding Warriors vs Immortals, I just did the math myself. I guess slightly off-topic, but I think more potentially new players are checking this forum now and are going to in the following weeks.

Basic math, but can anybody check it please? Getting late over here.

Defensive - bolter fire/MEQ statline needed to wipe out a unit:
vs Warriors : 120 attacks - 80 hits - 40 wounds - 20 damage
vs Immortals: 90 attacks - 60 hits - 30 wounds - 10 damage

So it takes 33% more attacks to wipe the unit which is 41% more expensive. Slight numerical advantage for Immortals, but higher total volume of fire needed against Warriors, so pretty much a tie.

Offensive - damage output vs MEQ (rapid fire range - Mephrit code bonus active - MWBD active):
Gauss Flayer : 40 shots - 33,34 hits - 16,67 wounds - 11,12 damage
Gauss Blaster: 20 shots - 16,67 hits - 11,12 wounds - 9,26 damage
Tesla Carbine: 20 shots - 16,67 base hits + (6,67 x 2 = 13,34 Tesla hits) = 30 total hits - 20 wounds - 10 damage

10% less damage output from the much cheaper unit, with the bonus that the Tesla is an Assault weapon instead of Rapid Fire, so damage dropoff is not nearly as severe at 13"+ range, and can be fired after advancing in a pinch.
With the "Phaerons Will" stratagem you can get 2x MWBD, so two units of Immortals are a given.

Offensive - damage output vs MEQ (rapid fire range - Mephrit code bonus active - no MWBD):
Gauss Flayer : 40 shots - 26,67 hits - 13,34 wounds - 8,89 damage
Gauss Blaster: 20 shots - 13,34 hits - 8,89 wounds - 7,41 damage
Tesla Carbine: 20 shots - 13,34 base hits + (3,34 x 2 = 6,67 Tesla hits) = 20 total hits - 13,34 wounds - 6,67 damage

Advantage for Warriors, but still not enough considering the point cost difference. Only worth it when firing at units with a non-advoidable -1 to hit like Tyranids with Malantrophe/Venomtrophe cover or Eldar Rangers, I guess. No exploding Tesla hits means a sharp damage dropoff, but the advantages of Assault vs Rapid Fire weaponry still stand. So pretty much no reason to use Warriors at all, it seems. Shame for an iconic unit, but yay because less models to paint and Immortals look awesome.

Looks like Deceiver/Veil of Darkness bomb with 3x Immortals is a GO.

/edit: Had an error with Tesla hits, fixed it... general result remains the same.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/12 23:59:53


Post by: ThePie


I guess the worth of warriors lie in the ghost ark, and would the Sautekh dynasty make them better being able to assault and shoot?
But dammit advancing up with a big block warriors while harassing the enemy with deepstriking immortals sound like such fun.

And is the catacomb command barge worth it? Seems like a good option to have one and use the voidreaper with it, being able to take on any non vehicle unit and being able to hunt down fliers.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 00:16:02


Post by: Red Corsair


 MinscS2 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Lychguard aren't resilient on their own except to D1 weapons. On everything with multi-damage, Flayed Ones win.
That's important to note don't you think. This isn't like with Primaris Marines and the fact that a few of them aren't much more expensive than 1 wound Counterparts.


LG are much more resilient against D1 weaponry and small arms fire, and about as resilient against things like plasma due to their 4++.

 Red Corsair wrote:


I mean what on earth are you expecting? A space marine is 13ppm and is arguably worse for its price since it lacks focus. FO are a 3 attack space marine with a worse save but reanimate, deepsrike and a fear debuff. Oh and with shredding melee weapons. That is about fair for 4 ppm more. Especially when you consider the dynastic codes are much more useful all around then many other races traits. just the deepstrike ability alone is probably worth the increase in points over a normal warrior.


Any argument where one compares something to a tactical marine and says "looks good compared to this" falls flat on it's own. Tacticals are regarded as trash by most SM players (at least on these boards).
And they're more like Scouts with combat blades than tactical marines, don't you agree? Same save and both have deployment shenanigans. Suddenly we're looking at more than a 4ppm increase however.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Exactly, Anarkyr nearby and Novohk for example makes them crazy good. Back up to 4 attacks each, but hitting on 2's with shredd. Rerolling misses as well. Sure 20 is 340 but your talking about now only needing an 8" charge (MWBD) and having 80 attacks hitting on 2's rerolling with shredding s4 combat weapons. That unit will delete whatever it touches. Thats ~78 hits and verse GEQ it translates to 70 wounds before saves...


Sweet, so all I need is a named character and/or a specific Dynasty in order to make this 340 pts unit amazing at killing chaff and GEQ's? I'm convinced.


Ah I get it now, your one of those gamers that literally needs to have a dark reaper level unit in order to be happy... It's the only explanation for willfully acting like a brick wall. If you think a 17 point model should be killing everything in sight without any other unit synergy or tactics then that really does speak volumes.

Apparently taking combat crons from the combat code is unappealing to you? I guess you want them to be great using the 3 shooting ones. Such a daft complaint. And btw you don't need a named character lol. You could just as easily use a generic overlord. What did you want them to be killing BTW? Fething riptides? They have always been chaf mulchers. They are harder to use then warriors but far more efficient if you know how to.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 00:19:07


Post by: Odrankt


Catacomb Command barge is pretty good. 2+ WS and BS. Use Sautekh so that it ignores the -1 modifier for Heavy Weapons letting you shoot the Gauss Cannon at 2+. Or, if you take it in Mephrit detachment and make it your Warlord you can give it Merciless Tyrant to let its Voltaic Staff (SoL Mephrit relic upgrade) and Tesla Cannon to hit Enemy characters with 10 wounds or less.

It probably one of the best HQs we have due to it being any Dynasty, having good movement, QS, Good toughness and can be given a 4+ invul or 5+++ FnP.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 00:23:35


Post by: Acehilator


@ThePie: Sautekh only turns Gauss Flayers into Assault 1 weapons, so total number of shots is the same for both units. With MWBD you have Tesla exploding on 6s even when advancing.

Offense - vs MEQ (advancing, no Mephrit code bonus, MWBD active):
Gauss Flayer : 20 shots - 13,34 hits - 6,67 wounds - 3,34 damage
Tesla Carbine: 20 shots - 13,34 hits (3,34 x 2 = 6,67 Tesla hits) = 20 total hits - 13,34 wounds - 4,45 damage

Nope. No dice, at least not for offensive purposes.

If the Ghost Ark makes enough difference from a defensive standpoint, not sure. Like I said, I started checking out Necron stuff in earnest yesterday, I am new to this

(Tyranid player)

/edit: Made an error with Tesla hits, fixed it. Result stays the same.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 00:27:53


Post by: countbenignito


Doctoralex wrote:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
I'm curious to see how well a 6-man unit of destroyers being fed Extermination Protocols would fare for anti-tank; if my math is right you should be able to do a pretty respectable chunk of damage just through sheer weight of rerolls. It's a much more survivable unit than the 3-man heavy D squad too.


Could work, though they still only have 24" range. Can be difficult to get those predators in the back.

I'd say take Destroyers for Anti-MEQ and some light-anti tank in a pinch, and then take the buffed DDA for proper anti-tank
.


Here are some stats I just generated for a few units shooting at a T7, 3+ save unit. (P/W is points per wound)
Seems like a big unit of destroyers is t6he most efficient if you can use the strategem.


[Thumb - necronAT.jpg]


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 00:51:07


Post by: Mike712


dapperbandit wrote:
One thing I've seen that I never saw posted was the shot of the points cost of the Tesseract Vault. It's 496, same as the index. Not sure if it's worth that much even given the improvement's. But at least it didn't go up. Four improved powers of the Ctan do make it a mortal wounds factory that's for sure.

Also the Monolith. Didn't see anyone mention the change to its Portal of Exile. Doesn't have to be target of the charge for it to work, an enemy unit has to end a charge move within 1" of the model. 1" isn't great, was hopin for within 3" or something. In fact, not even sure how that would work unless a big unit charges to surround a unit you have just in front of the monolith. Surely, even if you put a unit base to hull with the monolith a charging enemy could do it without triggering the Portal? Seems like something a player could easily avoid.


Unit can't end up closer than 1" of the monolith(or any model) after making a charge unless the monolith was declared a target of the charge.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 01:00:10


Post by: ArtyomTrityak


It's very interesting 20 warriors vs 10 immortals. With ignore morale 2x20 warriors look cool. Killing 20 T4 4+/5++ models in single round is not very easy. And now the ignore morale so can move+advance 11', still shoot and reanimate.

So i'm thinking running 2x20 warriors, 2x6 Destroyers and 3x3 Tomb blades as a starting point. If opponent spends all it's shooting for killing 20 warriors - good for me - my other stuff is safe.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 01:07:36


Post by: MinscS2


 Red Corsair wrote:


Ah I get it now, your one of those gamers that literally needs to have a dark reaper level unit in order to be happy... It's the only explanation for willfully acting like a brick wall. If you think a 17 point model should be killing everything in sight without any other unit synergy or tactics then that really does speak volumes..


Lol hardly. I own 5 Dark Reapers and don't intend to get more.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 01:08:10


Post by: ThePie


How is the triarch stalker compared to the doomsday ark, heat ray vs twin heavy gauss cannons? I do like the model, though it will be even better after a small conversion to remove the pilot.

Was thinking of picking up a necron start collecting, and going from there.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 01:18:56


Post by: vipoid


 Red Corsair wrote:

Ah I get it now, your one of those gamers that literally needs to have a dark reaper level unit in order to be happy... It's the only explanation for willfully acting like a brick wall. If you think a 17 point model should be killing everything in sight without any other unit synergy or tactics then that really does speak volumes.


I think his point was that Flayed ones aren't very efficient. They've got no guns, they're slow (especially for melee units), they're not particularly resilient (no more than Warriors - which cost about 2/3 what they do), and their weapons have no AP and D1. Even with rerolls, that really doesn't seem like a particularly good deal.

I mean, 20 Immortals is 340pts and has 30 S4 AP- D1 attacks in combat (rerolling failed wounds).

For the same cost, 20 Immortals either have 20 S5 AP-2 D1 shots (40 at 12") or 40 shots at 24" with their S5 AP- D1 weapons that inflict 3 hits for every 6 rolled (so you can expect 40 hits, assuming no MWBD).

You've also got stuff like Destroyers. For about the same cost, 7 Destroyers will put out 21 S6 AP-3 Dd3 shots - which certainly win on quality if not quantity.

My point is, Flayed Ones don't appear to gain much (if anything) for being expensive, melee-only units. I haven't done the math, but I don't see them outperforming Immortals in most circumstances. Hell, even if they are better against a few units, I still don't think they're good enough to offset the additional risks and such associated with melee. That's how I see it, anyway.

Now, of course, you can buff the Flayed Ones with other stuff like MWBD to improve their performance. However, I think the issue becomes one of throwing good points after bad (or mediocre). You can do it, but wouldn't you rather buff an already-good unit? As opposed to one that needs the buff to be good, if you see what I mean. Or, hell, wouldn't you rather take a unit that doesn't need the buff at all? Then you can take more units rather than HQs.

Each to their own obviously, but I'm not seeing the appeal of Flayed Ones.

Then again, I didn't see the appeal of them before, either.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 01:27:18


Post by: Azuza001


Still looking at the obelisk vs tesseract vault comparison, then noticed the obelisk stratagem. Holy cow that's awesome. I just imagine suddenly the obelisk coming down into the battlefield with Tau and using that. That's a lot of drones falling from the sky, as well as some damaged suits really taking a hit.

I may build the obelisk after all.......

Also the talent for annihilation stratagem will be amazing on a vault or obelisk, 6's = 4 hits instead of 3? Oh good lord! Bring on the swarms.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 01:30:51


Post by: ThePie


Azuza001 wrote:
Still looking at the obelisk vs tesseract vault comparison, then noticed the obelisk stratagem. Holy cow that's awesome. I just imagine suddenly the obelisk coming down into the battlefield with Tau and using that. That's a lot of drones falling from the sky, as well as some damaged suits really taking a hit.

I may build the obelisk after all.......



You could always build the obelisk and run the Transcendent C'tan on foot.

And anyone knows yet what special rules the cryptek from the forgebane box will have?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 01:36:29


Post by: ArtyomTrityak


 ThePie wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
Still looking at the obelisk vs tesseract vault comparison, then noticed the obelisk stratagem. Holy cow that's awesome. I just imagine suddenly the obelisk coming down into the battlefield with Tau and using that. That's a lot of drones falling from the sky, as well as some damaged suits really taking a hit.

I may build the obelisk after all.......



You could always build the obelisk and run the Transcendent C'tan on foot.

And anyone knows yet what special rules the cryptek from the forgebane box will have?


I don't think there will be special rules except cloak


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 01:36:31


Post by: Azuza001


 ThePie wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
Still looking at the obelisk vs tesseract vault comparison, then noticed the obelisk stratagem. Holy cow that's awesome. I just imagine suddenly the obelisk coming down into the battlefield with Tau and using that. That's a lot of drones falling from the sky, as well as some damaged suits really taking a hit.

I may build the obelisk after all.......



You could always build the obelisk and run the Transcendent C'tan on foot


That was my original plan, plus some other bonuses (not ready to show off my work yet). I am trying to stretch the model as far as possible, but I got worried I made a mistake when the vault got the 4++ save and Obelisk apparently doesn't get that or quantum shielding. It may still not be the best bang / points but it seems it may still have a good place in some lists.

I mean, think of everything that can fly.... Some factions are based around it. Eldar vehicles / bikes and tau just jump to my mind as factions that may have a serious issue with this option. Not saying they won't kill it once it hits the field but you could do a lot of mortal wounds before it dies.


Still wish it had an invulnerable of some sort though.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 01:39:28


Post by: Drakmord


Have people looked at our Forgeworld units considering the stratagems? I need to go over it, but I'd love to field the Tomb Stalker effectively.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 01:41:59


Post by: changemod


countbenignito wrote:
Doctoralex wrote:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
I'm curious to see how well a 6-man unit of destroyers being fed Extermination Protocols would fare for anti-tank; if my math is right you should be able to do a pretty respectable chunk of damage just through sheer weight of rerolls. It's a much more survivable unit than the 3-man heavy D squad too.


Could work, though they still only have 24" range. Can be difficult to get those predators in the back.

I'd say take Destroyers for Anti-MEQ and some light-anti tank in a pinch, and then take the buffed DDA for proper anti-tank
.


Here are some stats I just generated for a few units shooting at a T7, 3+ save unit. (P/W is points per wound)
Seems like a big unit of destroyers is t6he most efficient if you can use the strategem.



Interesting, so even without the stratagem heavy destroyers are more efficient than the doomsday ark and regular destroyers aren't too shabby in a pinch.

Mind you I guess that's to be expected of a D6 shot weapon: Poor reliability.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 01:43:07


Post by: Punisher


Is it only 1 Artefact per army or 1 per detachment? So many sweet Artefacts would be a same to only pick 1.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 01:45:58


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Drakmord wrote:
Have people looked at our Forgeworld units considering the stratagems? I need to go over it, but I'd love to field the Tomb Stalker effectively.

They're still considered Canoptek correct? So you could do the one to give them RP and Advance + Charge. I don't own the Xenos FW book though so I don't know how expensive they are.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 01:52:15


Post by: Drakmord


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Drakmord wrote:
Have people looked at our Forgeworld units considering the stratagems? I need to go over it, but I'd love to field the Tomb Stalker effectively.

They're still considered Canoptek correct? So you could do the one to give them RP and Advance + Charge. I don't own the Xenos FW book though so I don't know how expensive they are.


Canoptek and Dynasty, which is nice. The Stalker has the same wounds and melee output as 3 Wraiths, with 1 more Toughness and d3 damage instead of a flat 2, but no invulnerable save. I don't think 1T makes up for that.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 02:20:42


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Aren't they T7?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 02:43:39


Post by: Drakmord


They're T7, but I thought Wraiths were T6 -- it's been a day, I'm all confused.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 02:51:54


Post by: Requizen


 Punisher wrote:
Is it only 1 Artefact per army or 1 per detachment? So many sweet Artefacts would be a same to only pick 1.


Every army, no matter how their Detachments are set up, gets one. Then, all Codices (including Necrons) have a Stratagem - pay 1CP for an extra Artifact, pay 3CP for another. I generally don't think it's worth even 1 more, since I think CPs are so precious.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 02:53:05


Post by: changemod


I wouldn't call Tomb Stalkers amazing, but...

Last edition I tried running mine a bunch of times, and it never paid off. Just couldn't close in with the enemy, and took disproportionate fire due to it's appearance.

Now at least it has a 10 inch move and a reliable deep strike that it can attempt to charge from. Amazing model, so I'm happy it at least -can- be ran and accomplish anything.

Now, tomb sentinels with Sautekh dynasty trait could be very interesting with their exile cannons.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 02:55:58


Post by: Grimgold


I'm Late to the party it seems, I would have been here sooner except the government stole my favorite hour of sleep to give it to the farmers or something. So I broke out the old spreadsheet to compare new to old, using Cost per kill metric I've previously described, all of the results are available on my spreadsheet.

Winners
Destroyers are hands down the most improved unit, with respectable Cost Per Kill in just about every target profile, except GEQ (more on this in a minute). They are good enough that I'm nervous they will get changed in the final draft.

Doomsday ark got much better at killing Vehicles, and a little more useful all around.

Tomb Blades, CCB, heavy destroyers, and the monolith all got noticeably better

Losers
Wraiths, Despite the buffs to their basic attack their effectiveness fell in every category do to a substantial cost increase. Their hit and run is a big increase in in utility, they can no longer be tar pitted. However that's probably less valuable than one would think, most of the units you'd charge with wraiths should fall back anyway, so it's only useful when someone is trying to grind them out in CC. There is also the fact that any unit that could take on wraiths and win is probably a unit you should leave in CC with the wraiths because they could destroy any other necron unit in the blink of an eye.

Flayed ones, points reduction doesn't make up for the lost attack, but let's face it you probably weren't running them anyway.

Scarabs, I hesitate to put them in the loser category because we weren't relying on them to be offensive powerhouses, so the weapon skill nerf doesn't really affect their main role. Still, there were quite a few situations where their number of attacks and 3+ weapon skill might turn the tide of a fight, and now they are less likely to do that.

The ugly
GEQ is a pretty big hole in our abilities, Literally our most efficient unit without buffs is tomb blades with particle casters, and they are still awful at it. The only viable strategy is Immortals with tesla, MWBD, and the Sautekh stratagem, so they can get tesla procs on 4+.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 03:06:59


Post by: Requizen


I'm a bit up in the air over Flayed Ones. The point drop is substantial, but they're probably still a bit overpointed for T4 4+ W1 models. However, when it comes to clearing Hordes, accept no substitutes, Novokh Flayed Ones will remove basically any Infantry unit in the game before they can say "hey, those claws look pretty sharp...". They still struggle with the 9" charge and can get rekt if they're left out in the cold, but pound for pound they cut through fleshy dudes like little else in the game.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 03:56:33


Post by: ArtyomTrityak


1 CP (Nephrek) During deployment. One infantry or Swarm unit gains 9" deepstrike.

Can it be used multiple times?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 03:58:55


Post by: Requizen


 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
1 CP (Nephrek) During deployment. One infantry or Swarm unit gains 9" deepstrike.

Can it be used multiple times?


As it currently stands, yes. Compare the Artifact Stratagem, which specifically states "This Stratagem may only be used once per battle". Since there is no such delimiter on the Nephrek Stratagem (at this point in time), you can use it multiple times.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 04:06:14


Post by: ArtyomTrityak


Cool, so we can create Nephrek Outrider:
2x6 Destroyers + wraith / scarabs and cheap HQ.

So we can put 2x6 Nephrek Destroyers in DS to protect them from alpha strike. Sounds cool.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 04:34:02


Post by: Red Corsair


 vipoid wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:

Ah I get it now, your one of those gamers that literally needs to have a dark reaper level unit in order to be happy... It's the only explanation for willfully acting like a brick wall. If you think a 17 point model should be killing everything in sight without any other unit synergy or tactics then that really does speak volumes.


I think his point was that Flayed ones aren't very efficient. They've got no guns, they're slow (especially for melee units), they're not particularly resilient (no more than Warriors - which cost about 2/3 what they do), and their weapons have no AP and D1. Even with rerolls, that really doesn't seem like a particularly good deal.

I mean, 20 Immortals is 340pts and has 30 S4 AP- D1 attacks in combat (rerolling failed wounds).

For the same cost, 20 Immortals either have 20 S5 AP-2 D1 shots (40 at 12") or 40 shots at 24" with their S5 AP- D1 weapons that inflict 3 hits for every 6 rolled (so you can expect 40 hits, assuming no MWBD).

You've also got stuff like Destroyers. For about the same cost, 7 Destroyers will put out 21 S6 AP-3 Dd3 shots - which certainly win on quality if not quantity.

My point is, Flayed Ones don't appear to gain much (if anything) for being expensive, melee-only units. I haven't done the math, but I don't see them outperforming Immortals in most circumstances. Hell, even if they are better against a few units, I still don't think they're good enough to offset the additional risks and such associated with melee. That's how I see it, anyway.

Now, of course, you can buff the Flayed Ones with other stuff like MWBD to improve their performance. However, I think the issue becomes one of throwing good points after bad (or mediocre). You can do it, but wouldn't you rather buff an already-good unit? As opposed to one that needs the buff to be good, if you see what I mean. Or, hell, wouldn't you rather take a unit that doesn't need the buff at all? Then you can take more units rather than HQs.

Each to their own obviously, but I'm not seeing the appeal of Flayed Ones.

Then again, I didn't see the appeal of them before, either.


Your missing my point however. I never claimed they were amazing. My point was that the unit is really not all that bad for its points. I can't stand the double standard that happens whenever someone complains as well. We all account for tesla immortals using dynastic codes and MWBD but when someone mentions the same buffs make FO considerably better somehow it's time to call it a crutch or disingenuous. Seriously, how hard is it to get Wave of command or MWBD off on a brick of 20 FO? So unlike warriors or Immortals, they are alpha strike safe and only need to make an 8" charge. For that they average 78 hits. HITS. Show me what else in the book can get you 78 s4 hits for 340 points. Feth me, you could go hog wild and fight twice even but lets ignore that. Then those 78 hits (which is obscene) have shred meaning they do more wounds to T1-7 then s5. Combat is trickier to pull of sure, but it also gets around things like several of the hit mods in the game as well as cover, it also allows the unit to take more of the table and tie down other enemy units.

Everything in the book should not be point and click.

EDIT sorry the 78 hits is coming from using Anarkyr. I personally really like using him but even without him your looking at 59 hits and they continue to lead the pack against horde.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 04:45:53


Post by: Arachnofiend


 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
Cool, so we can create Nephrek Outrider:
2x6 Destroyers + wraith / scarabs and cheap HQ.

So we can put 2x6 Nephrek Destroyers in DS to protect them from alpha strike. Sounds cool.

Yep, Nephrekh Destroyers are the new Obliterators. Very good. I had a feeling they'd be my dynasty when the codes were leaked and the stratagem only pushes that further.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 04:46:19


Post by: Red Corsair


 Grimgold wrote:
Their hit and run is a big increase in in utility, they can no longer be tar pitted. However that's probably less valuable than one would think, most of the units you'd charge with wraiths should fall back anyway, so it's only useful when someone is trying to grind them out in CC. There is also the fact that any unit that could take on wraiths and win is probably a unit you should leave in CC with the wraiths because they could destroy any other necron unit in the blink of an eye.



Apparently you have never been counter charged by a fething rhino or some other light vehicle. Wraiths were so laughably counter-able prior to the new ability it was a joke. The fall back and assault ability is insanely useful. Turn 1 advance and charge. Turn two RP strat the unit with hopefully a conoptek cloker nearby and then fall back towards their vanguard and tie down as many things as possible. Being able to move straight passed screens so you can shut down shooty units is a big deal.

Any unit that can kill the wraiths needs to be shot, better yet you can always leave shoot the bastards and then recharge them every turn. Spread sheets are useful, but you can't grade every unit on a spread sheet. Several units have abilities or stratagems that stack to make things hit harder, survive longer, or be more flexible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Requizen wrote:
I'm a bit up in the air over Flayed Ones. The point drop is substantial, but they're probably still a bit overpointed for T4 4+ W1 models. However, when it comes to clearing Hordes, accept no substitutes, Novokh Flayed Ones will remove basically any Infantry unit in the game before they can say "hey, those claws look pretty sharp...". They still struggle with the 9" charge and can get rekt if they're left out in the cold, but pound for pound they cut through fleshy dudes like little else in the game.


^This. The unit is far from perfect, but when you run the numbers you really can't come close to the amount of damage they can inflict on hordes with anything else for the cost. Not to mention I am not sure they will be a top priority for most opponents. With a fast unit of wraiths, veiled threats and deepstriking destroyers if your opponent is protecting their chaf from flayed ones you probably already will win.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 04:56:49


Post by: skoffs


 Red Corsair wrote:
So unlike warriors or Immortals, they are alpha strike safe and only need to make an 8" charge.

This is just me, personally, but 8" is still too risky for my liking.
Perhaps with Obyron, but then you've gotta include Zahndrekh AND someone with a Veil.
Is there another way to reduce the distance needed for FO to charge down to a more statistically favorable number that doesn't cost too much?

(And let's take it easy on the snide/snarky jabs, guys)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 05:07:35


Post by: Drakmord


An Overlord with Implacable Conqueror and the Veil of Darkness, with 20 Flayed Ones. MWBD, +1 to Charge distance, and re-roll charges. Inexpensive and a good chance to make it in.

You can also do Kutlakh and 20 Flayed Ones, and run under Nephrekh; currently you can choose Dynasties if your Dynasty isn't on the list. Move 5", Advance 7", and Charge 2d6+1". Costs more than the former, but doesn't require your Relic. However depending on deployment I believe this one is more likely to be a Turn 2 charge and the former can get at more targets as it's deep striking.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 05:08:03


Post by: Red Corsair


Combat is win big lose big. There needs to be risk involved if a unit is going to be doing that sort of consistent damage.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 05:09:13


Post by: Grimgold


Question, Can we make the deceiver bomb work now. With 2 CP a monolith can pull three units to it, 2 from tomb world deploy and 1 from somewhere on the board. With extras on GI We could also grab a nightscythe for an additional unit, or more likely just bring along something for shooting. Then you can veil another unit in. Mephrit could do warriors and immortals for short range gun fights, Novokh could just go all in on getting into CC.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 05:10:30


Post by: Red Corsair


Drakmord wrote:
An Overlord with Implacable Conqueror and the Veil of Darkness, with 20 Flayed Ones. MWBD, +1 to Charge distance, and re-roll charges. Inexpensive and a good chance to make it in.


Nice combo mate, I like it. a rerollable 8" charge is really good odds.

Haha, btw Anarkyr has implacable conqueror. So if you combo him with deceiver you can cheat him up then veil them in so not only would they get the reroll on the 8" charge but he would be giving them that bonus attack. Thats actually something I am gona have to try.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Grimgold wrote:
Question, Can we make the deceiver bomb work now. With 2 CP a monolith can pull three units to it, 2 from tomb world deploy and 1 from somewhere on the board. With extras on GI We could also grab a nightscythe for an additional unit, or more likely just bring along something for shooting. Then you can veil another unit in. Mephrit could do warriors and immortals for short range gun fights, Novokh could just go all in on getting into CC.


Thats a fun idea I would just be concerned with how much punch you are gona be able to get blowing ~600 points before you even take a unit to pop out. Since you need the CP's for all that your options are run no battalions and burn all your CP's turn 1 on deployment for killier stuff, or take pre requisits and end up with not enough points to pull killy things through. It may be possible but you will need to run a super elite force.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 05:33:01


Post by: Drakmord


Red Corsair wrote:
Nice combo mate, I like it. a rerollable 8" charge is really good odds.


Thank you. It's hard to give up the WL trait for it, personally, as I want to be spending CP on Destroyers, and the 33% chance of getting them back is alluring, but in exchange you get a reliable horde clearer.

Grimgold wrote:Question, Can we make the deceiver bomb work now. With 2 CP a monolith can pull three units to it, 2 from tomb world deploy and 1 from somewhere on the board. With extras on GI We could also grab a nightscythe for an additional unit, or more likely just bring along something for shooting. Then you can veil another unit in. Mephrit could do warriors and immortals for short range gun fights, Novokh could just go all in on getting into CC.


The Deceiver bomb just costs too much to initiate Turn 1 charges. I don't think Mephrit needs to be in Solar Fury range instantly in order to be worthwhile -- achieving it on Turn 2 is fine, if you can invest the points into more guns.

It's different for Novokh, as you want to get stuck in as fast as possible. For Novokh I would use only the Deceiver and Monolith, along with your Warlord carrying Indomitable Will and the Veil. This gets you 4 assault units into charge range, with a 6" reroll charge aura on your Warlord.

I would back a Novokh bomb with either powerful guns -- DDA's or TArks from another Dynasty -- or more, non-assault deep strikers like Nephrekh Destroyers.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 05:39:54


Post by: MinscS2


 Red Corsair wrote:
I can't stand the double standard that happens whenever someone complains as well


Sorry for having an opinion.

Not sure if having differing opinions is a reason to start with ad hominems however.
(Since I'm a pretty casual player, I consider being called a WAAC-player both extremely funny and insulting at the same time.)

Anyway, let's move on...


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 05:52:04


Post by: Grimgold


 Red Corsair wrote:


Apparently you have never been counter charged by a fething rhino or some other light vehicle. Wraiths were so laughably counter-able prior to the new ability it was a joke. The fall back and assault ability is insanely useful. Turn 1 advance and charge. Turn two RP strat the unit with hopefully a conoptek cloker nearby and then fall back towards their vanguard and tie down as many things as possible. Being able to move straight passed screens so you can shut down shooty units is a big deal.

Any unit that can kill the wraiths needs to be shot, better yet you can always leave shoot the bastards and then recharge them every turn. Spread sheets are useful, but you can't grade every unit on a spread sheet. Several units have abilities or stratagems that stack to make things hit harder, survive longer, or be more flexible.


Six wraiths have a decent shot at taking a rhino down in a single round so that's kind of a bad example. However I get it, if your wraiths are unsupported you could get tarpitted, not anymore though, which is great. However being more costly makes them even more vulnerable to mortal wounds, which was already a significant problem for them. In fact I doubt you'll find many better targets for smite than units that will be in your face on the first turn and have a 3++.

Prior to the change wraiths were on the bubble offensively, because they were inefficient. There were always better units, many of them ranged and thus much easier to use. So their role was tarpitting, they could get behind enemy lines and annoy the gak out of just about anything. Now they are more expensive, which means they are worse at tarpitting because the opportunity cost is higher. Because they are paying for multi damage melee attacks they need to be attacking vehicles and TEQ. Since TEQ are more or less a no show in competitive games, their role is now hunting vehicles in CC. Since necrons needed help in that area, maybe I'll change my mind on them.

Still, Winning exchanges is about efficiency, both offensive and defensive, and that is where spreadsheets shine. While winning exchanges won't automagically win you the game it sure does make it easier.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 05:59:37


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 MinscS2 wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
I can't stand the double standard that happens whenever someone complains as well


Sorry for having an opinion.

Not sure if having differing opinions is a reason to start with ad hominems however.
(Since I'm a pretty casual player, I consider being called a WAAC-player both extremely funny and insulting at the same time.)

Anyway, let's move on...

Well there IS a double standard that was being ignored.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 08:11:58


Post by: skoffs


Waitwaitwait,
Exactly how many things can we potentially have in the opponent's backfield turn one?
• Deceiver + D3 units
• Veil HQ + 1 unit
• 1 strategem deep strike unit
• X units of Deathmarks
• X units of Flayed Ones
• X dropping Monoliths
• X zooming flyers
• ?????

(though, I guess even with just those, if they had some DDA support from your side that'd be a pretty formidable threat to deal with)


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 08:32:18


Post by: Cmdr_Sune


My thoughts on the Dynastic codes. Any other opinions?

Sautekh:
Treat all weapons as assault when advancing and heavy weapons ignore movement penalty.

This seems to be good for FW units. I don't use FW so I can't see any use of it.

Novokh:
Reroll failed to hit rolls in fight phase.

Might try this out in a detachment sometime just for fun.

Nihilakh
Reroll to hit rolls of 1 when not moving.

Doomsday Arks and...
... warriors/immortals on turn 2-3?

Mephrit
Add -1 AP at below half range.

So we will need to get all shooting within 12".
Tomb blades!!! Tesla weapons will obviously benefit from this.
Veiled/grand illusioned in Immortals and Warriors.
Deathmarks get a small boost.
Annihilation barges with 11 AP-1 tesla shots.
This is the way I play my Necrons so the Mephrit is for me. Too bad that their Relic and Warlord trait is meh. Their Stratagem (an additional hit roll at a natural 6) is ok i guess.

Nephrekh
Advance 6".

Might have it's uses in an Outrider Detachment. Like the deep strike Stratagem.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 09:38:53


Post by: Therion


 skoffs wrote:
Waitwaitwait,
Exactly how many things can we potentially have in the opponent's backfield turn one?
• Deceiver + D3 units
• Veil HQ + 1 unit
• 1 strategem deep strike unit
• X units of Deathmarks
• X units of Flayed Ones
• X dropping Monoliths
• X zooming flyers
• ?????

(though, I guess even with just those, if they had some DDA support from your side that'd be a pretty formidable threat to deal with)


Stratagems can be used as many times as you want during deployment, so all Nephrekh units can deep strike with the gem, assuming you have enough command points. Naturally you can deploy your Sautekh Hyperlogical Strategist first, so you can try to refund each of your CPs that you spend for deep striking.

Destroyers should automatically be Nephrekh because of this reason.

That said, I'm having trouble mixing and matching dynasties because MWBD only works on units with the same dynasty code, and likewise the Crypteks can only give the +1 RP or invulnerable saves to units with the same code as the Cryptek in question.

All in all the HQs (and of course elites) are a definite weak point. The crypteks are good but they're still a HQ tax that contributes nothing but a small bonus, but cost 5% of our overall points, each. Command Barges are decent, but we're still talking about a 170 point unit that again doesn't contribute in any meaningful way for a unit that expensive. We get a BS buff, and some minor firepower. A Tau Commander with 4 Fusion Blasters costs about the same as a CCB. A Custodes Shield Captain costs less. Troops are weak too, not because the stat line, but because 120 point mandatory troops choices just don't work well in this edition when you need to fill your detachments. 85 point Immortal units aren't much better. Tau, for comparison, do much better in this regard since the FW only cost 35 points per slot.

Deceiver gives something I think the army desperately needs, but he's expensive. Necrons have no real scouts or push back units, and even deep strike denial is a serious issue. Opponents who win the first turn will use RG/ADMech stratagems to infiltrate 18 Aggressors or 40 Electro Priests into close range and annihilate all of the infantry the Necrons have in the first turn alpha. How to alpha protect the Necron army? Most of the posters in this thread don't seem to care about things like that because opponents use Tactical Marines and Predators and what not (no offence). Likewise, I admit falling a little bit to the Mephrit Tomb Blade hype myself, but once I looked at my own Imperial army for a tournament next weekend, I realised I really don't want to go within 12" of most opponents. My Astra army has 3 Shield Captains, Celestine and 3 Assassins. I go anywhere within 20" or more of that with Tomb Blades, and they're all toast.

It's funny because Necrons have a ton of good strats, good traits, and some good relics, but the units are so expensive that the list is truly hard to make.

Right now the best I've come up with is 18 Destroyers, CCB, 2 Crypteks, 3 units of Immortals, Scarabs and a Tesseract Vault. But it doesn't exactly strike me as a fool proof tier 1 army right now. We'll see if one can even be made.




Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 10:18:01


Post by: Nagerash


What do you guys think the best way to implement Praetorians is? Are they still worth it? They did get a point decrease and a cool strat, but without easy access to codes or other buffs, I'm trying to figure out if other options haven't surpassed them now... I've always really liked them. Especially the lore behind them, and a unit of 10 is very scary and maneuverable so i want to find a good spot for them in a few of my lists...

What about the Stalker? It could really use a Sautekh code or Nihilakh, but it doesn't (hopefully this will still change in the final version, but I'm not holding my breath). But then again, maybe it doesn't add as much utility as it used to, Since their are other ways to get that reroll 1 to hit now. It's still a nice semi-durable platform for a much needed anti-tank gun, but without the added utility, i'm not sure if it's not plain better every time to just take a few HDestroyers instead...

Thoughts?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 10:33:44


Post by: dapperbandit


 skoffs wrote:
Waitwaitwait,
Exactly how many things can we potentially have in the opponent's backfield turn one?
• Deceiver + D3 units
• Veil HQ + 1 unit
• 1 strategem deep strike unit
• X units of Deathmarks
• X units of Flayed Ones
• X dropping Monoliths
• X zooming flyers
• ?????

(though, I guess even with just those, if they had some DDA support from your side that'd be a pretty formidable threat to deal with)


Ghostwalk Mantle?

I was going to ask actually, is there some new cheese we can accomplish with Nemesor Zahndrekh? I like Vargard Obyron more now he has an extra attack and is useful in his own right beyond the teleport now he confers rerolls of 1 to wound.

I'm thinking, give Zahndrekh the Veil of Darkness, teleport him and one unit within 9" of the enemy, then use the Ghostwalk Mantle to teleport Vargard Obyron and a nasty melee unit within 6" of NZ and 1" away from enemy models, practically guaranteeing a successful charge.

If MWBD is applied correctly, you could have Obyron and 10 Lychguard hitting on 2s, rerolling 1s to wound. If you use an extra CP, you could make the Lychguard Strength 8, at which point they'd be flat out killing Intercessors on 2s and rerolling wound rolls of 1.

The question for me is, do I take a shooty unit or a slashy unit with NZ and his veil of darkness? 20 Warriors? 10 Immortals? 6 Destroyers? Or just more Lychguard to get more melee in?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 10:37:31


Post by: Doctoralex


 Nagerash wrote:


What about the Stalker? It could really use a Sautekh code or Nihilakh, but it doesn't (hopefully this will still change in the final version, but I'm not holding my breath). But then again, maybe it doesn't add as much utility as it used to, Since their are other ways to get that reroll 1 to hit now. It's still a nice semi-durable platform for a much needed anti-tank gun, but without the added utility, i'm not sure if it's not plain better every time to just take a few HDestroyers instead...

Thoughts?


The Stalker definitely has its uses. Both the Heat Ray (now 2D6 shots Dispersed) and the Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon (10 points decrease) got buffed.

It definitely has it's place in a Sauthekh army. If you REALLY need something killed, like a Primarch, you can use the Sautekh strategem + the Stalker for +1 to hit and rerolling 1's against that target.

I wouldn't bring it in a Nihilakh army though, since most of your anti-tank (destroyers, DDA's standing still) will already have reroll 1's.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 10:41:52


Post by: countbenignito


dapperbandit wrote:
 skoffs wrote:
Waitwaitwait,
Exactly how many things can we potentially have in the opponent's backfield turn one?
• Deceiver + D3 units
• Veil HQ + 1 unit
• 1 strategem deep strike unit
• X units of Deathmarks
• X units of Flayed Ones
• X dropping Monoliths
• X zooming flyers
• ?????

(though, I guess even with just those, if they had some DDA support from your side that'd be a pretty formidable threat to deal with)


Ghostwalk Mantle?

I was going to ask actually, is there some new cheese we can accomplish with Nemesor Zahndrekh? I like Vargard Obyron more now he has an extra attack and is useful in his own right beyond the teleport now he confers rerolls of 1 to wound.

I'm thinking, give Zahndrekh the Veil of Darkness, teleport him and one unit within 9" of the enemy, then use the Ghostwalk Mantle to teleport Vargard Obyron and a nasty melee unit within 6" of NZ and 1" away from enemy models, practically guaranteeing a successful charge.

If MWBD is applied correctly, you could have Obyron and 10 Lychguard hitting on 2s, rerolling 1s to wound. If you use an extra CP, you could make the Lychguard Strength 8, at which point they'd be flat out killing Intercessors on 2s and rerolling wound rolls of 1.

The question for me is, do I take a shooty unit or a slashy unit with NZ and his veil of darkness? 20 Warriors? 10 Immortals? 6 Destroyers? Or just more Lychguard to get more melee in?


Special Characters can't have Relics.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 10:49:44


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


Bringing CP's is very difficult. I've been aiming for 8 ( Battalion and two 1CP detatchments) but it's not easy. The HQs are expensive and mostly geared toward sitting in the middle of a phalanx giving out buffs. 8 CP requires 4 HQs and I don't want 4 in any of my lists. The Dlord and CCB start to look appealing because they can kind of strike out on their own but they don't do anywhere near enough damage for their point cost.

The other problem is Troops. 5 man Tesla Immortals aren't bad but feel like a total tax unit. Full size units of Warriors and Immortals can be good with support but they are expensive.


So we've got expensive troops that need supporting HQs to do anything impressive, and expensive HQs that need to be near multiple units to be more than a tax. This means if you don't run a Phalanx formation your going to be going against the grain, and the troops and HQs will feel more like a tax.

Meanwhile we have loads of cool teleporting options that make you want to throw stuff into rapid fire range- but as soon as you start doing that you break up the troops from their supporting HQs.


I think the key to making good lists is going to be firstly about figuring out how to make good use of troops and HQs.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 10:54:55


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


 Nagerash wrote:
What do you guys think the best way to implement Praetorians is? Are they still worth it? They did get a point decrease and a cool strat, but without easy access to codes or other buffs, I'm trying to figure out if other options haven't surpassed them now... I've always really liked them. Especially the lore behind them, and a unit of 10 is very scary and maneuverable so i want to find a good spot for them in a few of my lists...

What about the Stalker? It could really use a Sautekh code or Nihilakh, but it doesn't (hopefully this will still change in the final version, but I'm not holding my breath). But then again, maybe it doesn't add as much utility as it used to, Since their are other ways to get that reroll 1 to hit now. It's still a nice semi-durable platform for a much needed anti-tank gun, but without the added utility, i'm not sure if it's not plain better every time to just take a few HDestroyers instead...

Thoughts?


Well it used to be you had to use Imotekh or Anrakyr to give them MWBD...now that they have the equivalent stratagem for +1 to hit, I think the benefit is just you can run them with zero support required and they do their thing. 30 points less for a full unit of ten at 320, only needing a 1 point Strategem the turn they hit combat isn't the worst.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 11:00:21


Post by: vipoid


 Red Corsair wrote:

Your missing my point however. I never claimed they were amazing.


Hence why I never said you did.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I can't stand the double standard that happens whenever someone complains as well. ]We all account for tesla immortals using dynastic codes and MWBD but when someone mentions the same buffs make FO considerably better somehow it's time to call it a crutch or disingenuous.


I don't understand why you bring this up, given that I specifically didn't use it in my comparison and then went into detail as to why I don't think it should be included.

To reiterate, I prefer that my units be self-sufficient, rather than needing HQ buffs to work. I know I need at least some HQs in my army, but I like to have some flexibility there (especially since I want to include as few as possible) - rather than having units that need a particular HQ to babysit them and them alone. I appreciate that this is just my personal preference, however.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Seriously, how hard is it to get Wave of command or MWBD off on a brick of 20 FO?


It's not about it being hard, it's about it being expensive. That's an extra ~170pts you're paying for that effect - 50% of what the entire squad costs. We're not just talking about a 30pt Company Commander here.

Also, your edit says that this is with Anrykar as well. You're throwing a hell of a lot of points into this one unit of Flayed Ones. Maybe it'll work, but it's too many eggs in one basket for my tastes.

 Red Corsair wrote:
So unlike warriors or Immortals, they are alpha strike safe and only need to make an 8" charge.


Since when was an 8" charge good odds? If they fail, then their alpha strike protection has gone down the toilet.

 Red Corsair wrote:
For that they average 78 hits. HITS. Show me what else in the book can get you 78 s4 hits for 340 points.


This is circular reasoning. Flayed Ones get 78 hits in melee (assuming none of them die first), so you're asking me to measure them by their own standard. What if I would rather have fewer hits with better Strength, AP and/or damage? What if I would rather have fewer hits but at range instead of melee?

 Red Corsair wrote:
Then those 78 hits (which is obscene) have shred meaning they do more wounds to T1-7 then s5. Combat is trickier to pull of sure, but it also gets around things like several of the hit mods in the game as well as cover, it also allows the unit to take more of the table and tie down other enemy units.


That's true, but I'd rather do that with a fast melee unit, rather than relying on a risky charge from deep strike.

Also, I don't like 20-man units in general. I'd far rather split my units into smaller ones that can split up to go after different targets. That's just me, though.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 11:05:37


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


The other big problem with list building is alpha strike defense. How do you stop Blood Angels charging out of deep strike? Or anything that arrives in rapid fire range? The closest thing we have to a disposable screen is Scarabs but they're not great at it. The only way to "infiltrate" is with the Deceiver but you're not going to be paying his points just to put disposable screening units forward.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 11:09:48


Post by: Halfpast_Yellow


Spoiler:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Bringing CP's is very difficult. I've been aiming for 8 ( Battalion and two 1CP detatchments) but it's not easy. The HQs are expensive and mostly geared toward sitting in the middle of a phalanx giving out buffs. 8 CP requires 4 HQs and I don't want 4 in any of my lists. The Dlord and CCB start to look appealing because they can kind of strike out on their own but they don't do anywhere near enough damage for their point cost.

The other problem is Troops. 5 man Tesla Immortals aren't bad but feel like a total tax unit. Full size units of Warriors and Immortals can be good with support but they are expensive.


So we've got expensive troops that need supporting HQs to do anything impressive, and expensive HQs that need to be near multiple units to be more than a tax. This means if you don't run a Phalanx formation your going to be going against the grain, and the troops and HQs will feel more like a tax.

Meanwhile we have loads of cool teleporting options that make you want to throw stuff into rapid fire range- but as soon as you start doing that you break up the troops from their supporting HQs.


I think the key to making good lists is going to be firstly about figuring out how to make good use of troops and HQs.


Why wouldn't you run the Imotekh, Lord/Overlord, 10x3 Tesla Immortals wombo battalion for 786-800 or so points? Then running one 1CP detachment of whatever is 8 CP plus CP regen on 5+.

You only have to get into 24" range and the 30 Immortals can peel off something like 100 S5 hits, that doesn't seem like much of a 'troop tax'


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
The other big problem with list building is alpha strike defense. How do you stop Blood Angels charging out of deep strike? Or anything that arrives in rapid fire range? The closest thing we have to a disposable screen is Scarabs but they're not great at it. The only way to "infiltrate" is with the Deceiver but you're not going to be paying his points just to put disposable screening units forward.


You use Nephrek Stratagem to protect units in deepstike, e.g Destroyers


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 11:17:54


Post by: dapperbandit


countbenignito wrote:
dapperbandit wrote:
 skoffs wrote:
Waitwaitwait,
Exactly how many things can we potentially have in the opponent's backfield turn one?
• Deceiver + D3 units
• Veil HQ + 1 unit
• 1 strategem deep strike unit
• X units of Deathmarks
• X units of Flayed Ones
• X dropping Monoliths
• X zooming flyers
• ?????

(though, I guess even with just those, if they had some DDA support from your side that'd be a pretty formidable threat to deal with)


Ghostwalk Mantle?

I was going to ask actually, is there some new cheese we can accomplish with Nemesor Zahndrekh? I like Vargard Obyron more now he has an extra attack and is useful in his own right beyond the teleport now he confers rerolls of 1 to wound.

I'm thinking, give Zahndrekh the Veil of Darkness, teleport him and one unit within 9" of the enemy, then use the Ghostwalk Mantle to teleport Vargard Obyron and a nasty melee unit within 6" of NZ and 1" away from enemy models, practically guaranteeing a successful charge.

If MWBD is applied correctly, you could have Obyron and 10 Lychguard hitting on 2s, rerolling 1s to wound. If you use an extra CP, you could make the Lychguard Strength 8, at which point they'd be flat out killing Intercessors on 2s and rerolling wound rolls of 1.

The question for me is, do I take a shooty unit or a slashy unit with NZ and his veil of darkness? 20 Warriors? 10 Immortals? 6 Destroyers? Or just more Lychguard to get more melee in?


Special Characters can't have Relics.


Ah, whaaat?

I thought I read the rules for relics as that only some named characters can't take relics. Oh well. I suppose you could still technically do it with a Lord or Cryptek though that feels like a convoluted way of catapulting your Warlord, a Lord and 10 Lychguard into the enemy deployment.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 11:19:09


Post by: Doctoralex


What do you guys think of the following variants on a Novokh Flayed One bomb?

Using the Implacable Conqueror WL trait for reroll on the charges;

A: 1x Overlord /w Veil, 2x 20 Flayed Ones

The idea here is to put one unit of Flayed Ones on the table next to the Overlord, while the other one goes in deepstrike.
The OL uses MWBD on the first Flayed unit, who then uses Veil to deepstrike them, the other Flayed unit deepstrikes close to the OL as well.

This gives one unit of Flayed Ones an 8" charge, reroll failed. While the one has a 9" charge, reroll failed.

B: Overlord /w Veil, 1x 10 Lychguard /w sword&board, 2x 20 flayed ones.

This is an even heavier and more expensive melee bomb. The OL Veil's in with the Lychguard. The Flayed ones stay close to the OL for re-roll failed charges.
I can't really decide whether to take Scytheguard or Swordguard here. Scyhteguard will provide some much needed anti-tank, but will get focused down by stuff like plasma. Shield Guard might be ignored with the 2CP strategem, but that in turn might mean the Flayed Ones get wrecked.

C: OL /w relic Scythe, Cryptek /w Veil, 2x 20 Flayed Ones.

This is a more durable version of A, thanks to the 5++ from the Cryptek and improved RP. The Cryptek Veil's the OL forward, followed by the Flayed Ones popping up besides them.
Being Novokh also grants the OL the awesome Blood Scythe.

The main downside is that the OL doesn't really have a target for MWBD 1st turn...

What do you guys think? I know there are other options with the Nephrekh strategem, Deceiver, new strategems for the Monolith/Night Scythe etc, but this could be a good start.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 11:20:13


Post by: Therion


Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
The other big problem with list building is alpha strike defense. How do you stop Blood Angels charging out of deep strike? Or anything that arrives in rapid fire range? The closest thing we have to a disposable screen is Scarabs but they're not great at it. The only way to "infiltrate" is with the Deceiver but you're not going to be paying his points just to put disposable screening units forward.


I already posted this concern twice but it's been glossed over. Tournament results later will confirm this glaring hole, because it looks like there's no answer. All of the faceroll deep strike bombs, super infiltrates (AL/RG/ADMech), or even outdated builds like Plasma Scions will do a huge number on Necrons. They simply don't have the tools that everyone in the tournament circuit consider 'must haves'. Even generic bubblewrap isn't generally considered sufficient -- You need Marine Scouts or Nurglings to really be safe. Unless you're Eldar. Because Eldar are just that special.

That said, I'd like people to discuss alternatives, but I guess we aren't really at that point. We're still at the "bickering about whether a trash unit is really trash or just bad" point.





Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 11:26:19


Post by: vipoid


By the way, I know this is a petty quibble, but am I the only one who wishes they'd come up with more distinct names for each code?

Maybe I'm just thick, but I keep having to go back and look up which one's which out of Nihilakh and Nephrekh.

Either way, these names just make me wish GW hadn't spilled Tomb Kings in my Necrons.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 11:30:01


Post by: Doctoralex


 Therion wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
The other big problem with list building is alpha strike defense. How do you stop Blood Angels charging out of deep strike? Or anything that arrives in rapid fire range? The closest thing we have to a disposable screen is Scarabs but they're not great at it. The only way to "infiltrate" is with the Deceiver but you're not going to be paying his points just to put disposable screening units forward.


I already posted this concern twice but it's been glossed over. Tournament results later will confirm this glaring hole, because it looks like there's no answer. All of the faceroll deep strike bombs, super infiltrates (AL/RG/ADMech), or even outdated builds like Plasma Scions will do a huge number on Necrons. They simply don't have the tools that everyone in the tournament circuit consider 'must haves'. Even generic bubblewrap isn't generally considered sufficient -- You need Marine Scouts or Nurglings to really be safe. Unless you're Eldar. Because Eldar are just that special.

That said, I'd like people to discuss alternatives, but I guess we aren't really at that point. We're still at the "bickering about whether a trash unit is really trash or just bad" point.





Yea, apart from just boat-loads of Scarabs there isn't much screening. Though for our vehicles, the new QS strategem will definitely give it a boost in survivability.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 11:30:40


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Spoiler:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Bringing CP's is very difficult. I've been aiming for 8 ( Battalion and two 1CP detatchments) but it's not easy. The HQs are expensive and mostly geared toward sitting in the middle of a phalanx giving out buffs. 8 CP requires 4 HQs and I don't want 4 in any of my lists. The Dlord and CCB start to look appealing because they can kind of strike out on their own but they don't do anywhere near enough damage for their point cost.

The other problem is Troops. 5 man Tesla Immortals aren't bad but feel like a total tax unit. Full size units of Warriors and Immortals can be good with support but they are expensive.


So we've got expensive troops that need supporting HQs to do anything impressive, and expensive HQs that need to be near multiple units to be more than a tax. This means if you don't run a Phalanx formation your going to be going against the grain, and the troops and HQs will feel more like a tax.

Meanwhile we have loads of cool teleporting options that make you want to throw stuff into rapid fire range- but as soon as you start doing that you break up the troops from their supporting HQs.


I think the key to making good lists is going to be firstly about figuring out how to make good use of troops and HQs.


Why wouldn't you run the Imotekh, Lord/Overlord, 10x3 Tesla Immortals wombo battalion for 786-800 or so points? Then running one 1CP detachment of whatever is 8 CP plus CP regen on 5+.

You only have to get into 24" range and the 30 Immortals can peel off something like 100 S5 hits, that doesn't seem like much of a 'troop tax'


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
The other big problem with list building is alpha strike defense. How do you stop Blood Angels charging out of deep strike? Or anything that arrives in rapid fire range? The closest thing we have to a disposable screen is Scarabs but they're not great at it. The only way to "infiltrate" is with the Deceiver but you're not going to be paying his points just to put disposable screening units forward.


You use Nephrek Stratagem to protect units in deepstike, e.g Destroyers



So yeah a Sautekh 3x 10 tesla Immortal core is about as good as it gets and should work decently. I do like that option but its the inability to do anything else effective with a Battalion that concerns me.


Nephrek DS strat is a great way to protect key units but you've still got the whole of the rest of your army deployed like sitting ducks.


5 man Telsa units in Nephrek seem kinda ok as they can jump 11" a turn and still shoot 10 S5 shots with 4s to hit.




Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 11:49:21


Post by: Zalek


Looking at the Monolith, it seems it still doesn't have the "Transport" keyword. Does it mean our infantry still can not move after they get on the table?

So much for the transport of the most advanced race in galaxy


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 12:26:35


Post by: unitled


Zalek wrote:
Looking at the Monolith, it seems it still doesn't have the "Transport" keyword. Does it mean our infantry still can not move after they get on the table?

So much for the transport of the most advanced race in galaxy


I thought the issue was if the Monolith is destroyed 'embarked' units couldn't escape? I don't see anything which stops moving after the teleport in from a Monolith, it happens at the start of the Movement phase?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 12:42:55


Post by: Doctoralex


Same here, but apparently deploying from a Monolith/Night Scythe counts as 'setting up' thus the unit cannot move.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 12:50:13


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


Has anyone come up with a HQ choice that is good for anything other than buffing nearby units?

CCB and Dlord can be made pretty durable but they aren't going to kill much.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 12:51:09


Post by: unitled


Ah yes, sorry, I was getting my phases mixed up! They can still charge and shoot, just not move.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 13:05:01


Post by: iGuy91


Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Spoiler:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Bringing CP's is very difficult. I've been aiming for 8 ( Battalion and two 1CP detatchments) but it's not easy. The HQs are expensive and mostly geared toward sitting in the middle of a phalanx giving out buffs. 8 CP requires 4 HQs and I don't want 4 in any of my lists. The Dlord and CCB start to look appealing because they can kind of strike out on their own but they don't do anywhere near enough damage for their point cost.

The other problem is Troops. 5 man Tesla Immortals aren't bad but feel like a total tax unit. Full size units of Warriors and Immortals can be good with support but they are expensive.


So we've got expensive troops that need supporting HQs to do anything impressive, and expensive HQs that need to be near multiple units to be more than a tax. This means if you don't run a Phalanx formation your going to be going against the grain, and the troops and HQs will feel more like a tax.

Meanwhile we have loads of cool teleporting options that make you want to throw stuff into rapid fire range- but as soon as you start doing that you break up the troops from their supporting HQs.


I think the key to making good lists is going to be firstly about figuring out how to make good use of troops and HQs.


Why wouldn't you run the Imotekh, Lord/Overlord, 10x3 Tesla Immortals wombo battalion for 786-800 or so points? Then running one 1CP detachment of whatever is 8 CP plus CP regen on 5+.

You only have to get into 24" range and the 30 Immortals can peel off something like 100 S5 hits, that doesn't seem like much of a 'troop tax'


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
The other big problem with list building is alpha strike defense. How do you stop Blood Angels charging out of deep strike? Or anything that arrives in rapid fire range? The closest thing we have to a disposable screen is Scarabs but they're not great at it. The only way to "infiltrate" is with the Deceiver but you're not going to be paying his points just to put disposable screening units forward.


You use Nephrek Stratagem to protect units in deepstike, e.g Destroyers



So yeah a Sautekh 3x 10 tesla Immortal core is about as good as it gets and should work decently. I do like that option but its the inability to do anything else effective with a Battalion that concerns me.




We could even go farther with this wombo-combo, throw in a Triarch Stalker as well and a cryptek, which will allow them to re-roll 1s to hit, give them a +1 to RP, and a 5++ to keep them alive to keep the phalanx moving.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 13:11:32


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


I think this is a decent "formation" to try and put in lists:

Nephrekh Dynasty

Cryptek with Chrono and Veil
10 Tesla Immortals
6x Destroyers Deep striking

Hide the Cryptek and Immortals at deployment then the whole group can appear somewhere together within 24" of their targets.

The Cryptek gives them all a 5++ and +1 reanimation, it shouldn't be too difficult to find cover with 24" range to play with for 2+ saves.

Pop the Destroyer strat obviously and put MWBD on the Teslas before the teleport.

That's a very shooty and very durable group than can appear anywhere.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 13:16:38


Post by: Odrankt


Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I think this is a decent "formation" to try and put in lists:

Nephrekh Dynasty

Cryptek with Chrono and Veil
10 Tesla Immortals
6x Destroyers Deep striking

Hide the Cryptek and Immortals at deployment then the whole group can appear somewhere together within 24" of their targets.

The Cryptek gives them all a 5++ and +1 reanimation, it shouldn't be too difficult to find cover with 24" range to play with for 2+ saves.

Pop the Destroyer strat obviously and put MWBD on the Teslas before the teleport.

That's a very shooty and very durable group than can appear anywhere.



How will you MWBD without an Overlord?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 13:22:17


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


 iGuy91 wrote:


We could even go farther with this wombo-combo, throw in a Triarch Stalker as well and a cryptek, which will allow them to re-roll 1s to hit, give them a +1 to RP, and a 5++ to keep them alive to keep the phalanx moving.


The Stalker's a maybe, but the the Sautekh Telsa spam Battalion would be:

Overlord (maybe Imotekh)
Lord
Cryptek

3x10 Tesla Immortals

768pts


The Stalker would be so much better with the Sautekh keyword as it's one of the few units that can benefit from moving and shooting heavy weapons. It could also then trigger the stratagem and give +1 to hit and reroll 1's to everything.


How will you MWBD without an Overlord?


You're going to need more HQ's to make a legal list.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 13:22:24


Post by: KingTeXxx


So a Cryptek and the Orb of eternity means RP on 3+?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 13:25:16


Post by: skoffs


Necron soup (salad?) is looking like an interesting idea.
• A Nihilakh Spearhead of Doomsday Arks + Canoptek Cloak Cryptek to sit back and shoot.
• A Nephrekh Outrider of Destroyers + D.Lord who teleport in.
• A Novokh Outrider of Wraiths + CCB to go chopping.
• A Mephrit Outrider of Tomb Blades + OL with Veil to get in fast.
• A Sautekh Air Wing of 3 Doom Scythes.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 13:25:45


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


KingTeXxx wrote:
So a Cryptek and the Orb of eternity means RP on 3+?


Yeah but any points invested in improving reanimation rolls = more points wasted when an opponent who knows what they are doing wipes whole units.


Necron soup (salad?) is looking like an interesting idea.
• A Nihilakh Spearhead of Doomsday Arks + Canoptek Cloak Cryptek to sit back and shoot.
• A Nephrekh Outrider of Destroyers + D.Lord who teleport in.
• A Novokh Outrider of Wraiths + CCB to go chopping.
• A Mephrit Outrider of Tomb Blades + OL with Veil to get in fast.
... nothing for Sautekh that I can think of off the top of my head. (maybe Silver Tide?)


The problem with the soup is that all the HQs buffs only benefit their Dynasty. In your example you have kept everything separate but it still makes the HQs even more points inefficient.


Your cryptek isn't using his technomancer ability.
The CCB isn't using MWBD and nor is your OL.

The buffs are the only thing the HQs are any good at. A soup list would have to use the non-Dynasty named characters to get anywhere.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 13:42:38


Post by: skoffs


Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Sautekh Telsa spam
Why give Sautekh Tesla? It's already an assault weapon so they won't benefit from the code.

The Stalker would be so much better with the Sautekh keyword
Unfortunately that's not possible (Stalkers and Praetorians can't benefit from any Dynastic buffs).


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 13:44:35


Post by: Game_maker


Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Has anyone come up with a HQ choice that is good for anything other than buffing nearby units?

CCB and Dlord can be made pretty durable but they aren't going to kill much.



A command barge with the void reaper relic and the honorable combatant warlord trait gets 3+d3 attacks against characters that hit and wound on 2s, have an AP of -5, and do 3 damage. Against characters without invulnerable saves and elite infantry the barge can do a pile of damage. While I'm less sure about this one, if you give it the lightning cloak and the thrall of the silent King warlord trait it does a mortal wound to all enemy units in 4 inches on a 4+, which is nice.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 13:46:07


Post by: Doctoralex


 skoffs wrote:



• A Mephrit Outrider of Tomb Blades + OL with Veil to get in fast.
.


Why an OL? He can't give the bikes MWBD. a Cryptek with Veil or Canoptek Cloak following them can work, to boost their RP to 4+


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 13:48:15


Post by: stormcraft


List Idea:

SautekH
Imo 200
Orikan 115
Immortals x10 170
Immortals x10 170
Immortals x10 170

Novokh
DLord 121
4 Scarab 52
3 Scarab 39
3 Scarab 39
5 Wraiths 275

Nihilak
Lord 84
Doomsday 193
Doomsday 193
HDestroyer 57
HDestroyer 57
HDestroyer 57

Nihilak Detachment Sits back an rerolls 1 to hit and wound,Sautekh advances to the midfield and regenerates CPs. Wraith,Scarabs and DLord (Phylaktery Relic) go for harrasment .




Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 13:49:37


Post by: v0iddrgn


So, there's a possibility that this "beta" codex will be different than the real codex?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 13:50:53


Post by: mhalko1


dapperbandit wrote:
countbenignito wrote:
dapperbandit wrote:
 skoffs wrote:
Waitwaitwait,
Exactly how many things can we potentially have in the opponent's backfield turn one?
• Deceiver + D3 units
• Veil HQ + 1 unit
• 1 strategem deep strike unit
• X units of Deathmarks
• X units of Flayed Ones
• X dropping Monoliths
• X zooming flyers
• ?????

(though, I guess even with just those, if they had some DDA support from your side that'd be a pretty formidable threat to deal with)


Ghostwalk Mantle?

I was going to ask actually, is there some new cheese we can accomplish with Nemesor Zahndrekh? I like Vargard Obyron more now he has an extra attack and is useful in his own right beyond the teleport now he confers rerolls of 1 to wound.

I'm thinking, give Zahndrekh the Veil of Darkness, teleport him and one unit within 9" of the enemy, then use the Ghostwalk Mantle to teleport Vargard Obyron and a nasty melee unit within 6" of NZ and 1" away from enemy models, practically guaranteeing a successful charge.

If MWBD is applied correctly, you could have Obyron and 10 Lychguard hitting on 2s, rerolling 1s to wound. If you use an extra CP, you could make the Lychguard Strength 8, at which point they'd be flat out killing Intercessors on 2s and rerolling wound rolls of 1.

The question for me is, do I take a shooty unit or a slashy unit with NZ and his veil of darkness? 20 Warriors? 10 Immortals? 6 Destroyers? Or just more Lychguard to get more melee in?


Special Characters can't have Relics.


Ah, whaaat?

I thought I read the rules for relics as that only some named characters can't take relics. Oh well. I suppose you could still technically do it with a Lord or Cryptek though that feels like a convoluted way of catapulting your Warlord, a Lord and 10 Lychguard into the enemy deployment.


You still could do some shenans with the receiver if you wanted zahndrekh closer and bodyguard units.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 13:51:37


Post by: unitled


 skoffs wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Sautekh Telsa spam
Why give Sautekh Tesla? It's already an assault weapon so they won't benefit from the code.


There's a Sautekh strat which boosts hit rolls for other Sautekh units (boosting Tesla multihits).


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 13:52:44


Post by: Red Corsair




Then don't use them lol. I wasn't trying to convince you or anyone else into needing these guys, I was simply demonstrating that they were not the utter garbage that was being hurled at them.

You seem reasonable, I am not gona go in circles with you. If you don't like them then don't take them. What was annoying me was claiming they were trash without evidence and then when I put forth a way in which you can play them and succeed it was shot down because it required too much synergy. That annoys me because it IS a double standard when every other post is referencing some wambo combo between several units, traits and or relics.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 13:52:59


Post by: Doctoralex


stormcraft wrote:
List Idea:



Nihilak
Lord 84
Doomsday 193
Doomsday 193
HDestroyer 57
HDestroyer 57
HDestroyer 57

Nihilak Detachment Sits back an rerolls 1 to hit and wound,Sautekh advances to the midfield and regenerates CPs. Wraith,Scarabs and DLord (Phylaktery Relic) go for harrasment .




Looks solid, but I'd replace the 3 H destroyers for another DDA ant turn the Lord into something else. Or put the 3 H destroyers in one unit, so they can use the Destroyer strategem.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 14:11:01


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


 unitled wrote:
 skoffs wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Sautekh Telsa spam
Why give Sautekh Tesla? It's already an assault weapon so they won't benefit from the code.


There's a Sautekh strat which boosts hit rolls for other Sautekh units (boosting Tesla multihits).


Yeah this. The Sautekh code is almost useless. It's all about the stratagem and warlord trait. The characters are a nice bonus.


After messing about with lists I quite like the balance between Dynasties. Mephrit isn't the stand out best as I initially thought and they all have things going for them.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 14:15:11


Post by: Red Corsair


 Therion wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
The other big problem with list building is alpha strike defense. How do you stop Blood Angels charging out of deep strike? Or anything that arrives in rapid fire range? The closest thing we have to a disposable screen is Scarabs but they're not great at it. The only way to "infiltrate" is with the Deceiver but you're not going to be paying his points just to put disposable screening units forward.


I already posted this concern twice but it's been glossed over. Tournament results later will confirm this glaring hole, because it looks like there's no answer. All of the faceroll deep strike bombs, super infiltrates (AL/RG/ADMech), or even outdated builds like Plasma Scions will do a huge number on Necrons. They simply don't have the tools that everyone in the tournament circuit consider 'must haves'. Even generic bubblewrap isn't generally considered sufficient -- You need Marine Scouts or Nurglings to really be safe. Unless you're Eldar. Because Eldar are just that special.

That said, I'd like people to discuss alternatives, but I guess we aren't really at that point. We're still at the "bickering about whether a trash unit is really trash or just bad" point.





You have two options really. You either take scarabs or a 20 man warrior unit and daisy chain that unit accross your battle line. If you want them further up field your back to two options again. Best option is deceiver, next best which isn't saying much is hoping for first turn and Nephrek DS them up field. Second option relies on first turn, and does nothing for special deployment so I'd say it sucks. That really leaves the army with requiring deceiver IF you want to screen out the opponent. I'd say scarabs work best point for point since they are only 1 point more then a warrior but have 3 wounds and a 40mm base, meaning for the cost you can get an incredibly long chain during deployment, 20 warriors is better but also costs a lot more and is harder to hide from sight.


Something I am curious about is whether we need many stratagems in general. Besides maybe 3 to deepstrike destroyers turn 1 and then another 1 or two for the elimination volley in your first turns I am betting you can design a list that doesn't need many more. All the best units use volume of dice meaning the command reroll is not a massive deal.

A list I have been considering is all in on Vaults but you can fit a super heavy detachment in with three vaults, plus a battallion with 3 crypteks with clokes for around 2000. (Hilariously this is 9 command points btw) The vaults really could care less about being screened and the crypteks can heal them d3 a turn. Use the strat that allows most injured one to act normal. Also use the strat that can alter your powers ensuring you get 3x sky of falling stars etc. Take nephrek to teleport the 3 immortal units in late game.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 unitled wrote:
 skoffs wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Sautekh Telsa spam
Why give Sautekh Tesla? It's already an assault weapon so they won't benefit from the code.


There's a Sautekh strat which boosts hit rolls for other Sautekh units (boosting Tesla multihits).


Yeah this. The Sautekh code is almost useless. It's all about the stratagem and warlord trait. The characters are a nice bonus.


After messing about with lists I quite like the balance between Dynasties. Mephrit isn't the stand out best as I initially thought and they all have things going for them.


Immotek is amazing though. He is our Abbadon. He may cost 200 but he does the job of 2 overlords, while regening CP's as well as providing one and then his storm ability is very strong. Sure it's one use, but with a CP reroll it only fails once in 36 games and averages ~4 mortal wounds. Thats pretty solid when you knock out a quad heavy bolter or unit of reapers first turn. Splash damage is just extra gravy. I think he is our most efficient HQ by a mile.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 14:21:27


Post by: Doctoralex


The biggest problem I have with Imothekh is that you are forced to foot-slog your Immortals.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 14:22:25


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


 Red Corsair wrote:

Something I am curious about is whether we need many stratagems in general. Besides maybe 3 to deepstrike destroyers turn 1 and then another 1 or two for the elimination volley in your first turns I am betting you can design a list that doesn't need many more. All the best units use volume of dice meaning the command reroll is not a massive deal.




The destroyer Strat and the extra MWBD done strat acoount for 2 CP per turn. If you have any decent sized wraith or Scarab units you're going to want 1CP for advance + charge. Then there's the Dynasty specific Strats, most of which are pretty good and some cost 2CP.

Immotek is amazing though. He is our Abbadon. He may cost 200 but he does the job of 2 overlords, while regening CP's as well as providing one and then his storm ability is very strong. Sure it's one use, but with a CP reroll it only fails once in 36 games and averages ~4 mortal wounds. Thats pretty solid when you knock out a quad heavy bolter or unit of reapers first turn. Splash damage is just extra gravy. I think he is our most efficient HQ by a mile.


I'm not convinced. He is more expensive than 2 overlords who don't add and extra CP directly but do clear more of the HQ tax required to unlock them. His MW ability is alright I suppose, I don't find it too exciting. His WL trait is available to anyone. Probably the best hes ever been and I would consider taking him but I don't see anything amazing.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 14:25:25


Post by: vipoid


Doctoralex wrote:
The biggest problem I have with Imothekh is that you are forced to foot-slog your Immortals.


Weren't you doing that anyway?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 14:25:27


Post by: Archebius


 ThePie wrote:
How is the triarch stalker compared to the doomsday ark, heat ray vs twin heavy gauss cannons? I do like the model, though it will be even better after a small conversion to remove the pilot.

Was thinking of picking up a necron start collecting, and going from there.


I just started playing Necrons with some friends, so I'm sure someone else can provide more insight.

The heat ray really only offers an advantage over the gauss cannons if you're going to be hanging out 12" away from your targets, and a significant advantage at 8". For me, that was too close - lack of a <Dynasty> means that you're always going to suffer your heavy weapons penalty when you move, and you can't fly or ignore infantry, so if you get stuck in CC your effectiveness plummets. Also, no invulnerable save means that you can lose wounds pretty quickly when things start shooting you.

I prefer using the gauss cannons, sitting in the back, and targeting big units. Stalker gives +1 to hit for all Necron units targeting the same unit in the shooting phase, so it's great for taking chunks out of enemy vehicles and helping the rest of your army focus them down. But really, DDA is much more effective in the anti-tank role, and isn't a slouch if infantry threaten it. If I had to choose one to bring, I'd pack the DDA.

That being said, the start collecting box is a good deal, and the Stalker is fun to use against other small armies. Buy an extra box of Warriors and enjoy how nice RP is in small-point games.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 14:28:08


Post by: Red Corsair


Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:

Something I am curious about is whether we need many stratagems in general. Besides maybe 3 to deepstrike destroyers turn 1 and then another 1 or two for the elimination volley in your first turns I am betting you can design a list that doesn't need many more. All the best units use volume of dice meaning the command reroll is not a massive deal.




The destroyer Strat and the extra MWBD done strat acoount for 2 CP per turn. If you have any decent sized wraith or Scarab units you're going to want 1CP for advance + charge. Then there's the Dynasty specific Strats, most of which are pretty good and some cost 2CP.


Sorry, I get that. My point was whether or not a list that doesn't lean on CP's can be made. I am not suggesting dropping them entirely, but for example burning a CP to double MWBD is going to require a battalion or two just for the CP's at which point isn't it cheaper to simply take Immotek or another overlord? Things like that, some of the CP's are nice but can become traps when your making an army. Personally I would rather take immotek i nthe above scenario since he provides a secondary detachments CP alone as well as already saving you a further CP every turn if you were planning on using that strat you mentioned.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Doctoralex wrote:
The biggest problem I have with Imothekh is that you are forced to foot-slog your Immortals.


Not with the deceiver. Who is rapidly looking like an auto take if you don't want to forfeit 75% of the board during deployment.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 14:32:28


Post by: Drakmord


If going first is a concern for a list, consider Maynarkh representing a Dynasty of your choice (except Sautekh). Toholk gives you a re-roll to seize the initiative, which if I'm remembering correctly, can no longer be done with the command reroll, and army-sourced initiative rerolls are very rare. Put him in a Patrol if you're strapped for points or let him replace a generic Cryptek you were considering. He can repair vehicles like a Cloaktek but still has a Chronometron, as well.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 14:34:15


Post by: Doctoralex


 vipoid wrote:
Doctoralex wrote:
The biggest problem I have with Imothekh is that you are forced to foot-slog your Immortals.


Weren't you doing that anyway?


With Tesla I guess not. I'm too much in a mind-set of Gauss Immortals who Veil into rapid-fire range.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 14:34:40


Post by: Therion


It’s sad but you can be right that 3 vaults, 3x5 immortals, 2 crypteks and 2x scarabs might be the most competitive list.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 14:35:26


Post by: Requizen


 Red Corsair wrote:
 Therion wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
The other big problem with list building is alpha strike defense. How do you stop Blood Angels charging out of deep strike? Or anything that arrives in rapid fire range? The closest thing we have to a disposable screen is Scarabs but they're not great at it. The only way to "infiltrate" is with the Deceiver but you're not going to be paying his points just to put disposable screening units forward.


I already posted this concern twice but it's been glossed over. Tournament results later will confirm this glaring hole, because it looks like there's no answer. All of the faceroll deep strike bombs, super infiltrates (AL/RG/ADMech), or even outdated builds like Plasma Scions will do a huge number on Necrons. They simply don't have the tools that everyone in the tournament circuit consider 'must haves'. Even generic bubblewrap isn't generally considered sufficient -- You need Marine Scouts or Nurglings to really be safe. Unless you're Eldar. Because Eldar are just that special.

That said, I'd like people to discuss alternatives, but I guess we aren't really at that point. We're still at the "bickering about whether a trash unit is really trash or just bad" point.





You have two options really. You either take scarabs or a 20 man warrior unit and daisy chain that unit accross your battle line. If you want them further up field your back to two options again. Best option is deceiver, next best which isn't saying much is hoping for first turn and Nephrek DS them up field. Second option relies on first turn, and does nothing for special deployment so I'd say it sucks. That really leaves the army with requiring deceiver IF you want to screen out the opponent. I'd say scarabs work best point for point since they are only 1 point more then a warrior but have 3 wounds and a 40mm base, meaning for the cost you can get an incredibly long chain during deployment, 20 warriors is better but also costs a lot more and is harder to hide from sight.


Something I am curious about is whether we need many stratagems in general. Besides maybe 3 to deepstrike destroyers turn 1 and then another 1 or two for the elimination volley in your first turns I am betting you can design a list that doesn't need many more. All the best units use volume of dice meaning the command reroll is not a massive deal.

A list I have been considering is all in on Vaults but you can fit a super heavy detachment in with three vaults, plus a battallion with 3 crypteks with clokes for around 2000. (Hilariously this is 9 command points btw) The vaults really could care less about being screened and the crypteks can heal them d3 a turn. Use the strat that allows most injured one to act normal. Also use the strat that can alter your powers ensuring you get 3x sky of falling stars etc. Take nephrek to teleport the 3 immortal units in late game.

So while the hype of the new book is exciting, this conversation is important. To be competitive, you need to be able to look at the meta lists and figure out how to face them. While 6 Run + Charge Nephrekh Wraiths is exciting, and Deep Striking Destroyers is cool, actually using them in a game can be less straightforward.

For blocking Alpha Strikes, I agree that Warriors or MSU Scarabs are likely the best option. 20 Warriors may not be as math efficient as 10 Immortals in some ways, but they do have more models for purposes of controlling space, which in and of itself is a very powerful tool. You can also consider MSU Tomb Blades - a few squads of 3 can be spread out ~18" apart to block Deep Strikers while being not efficient to Alpha against. Taking a unit of 3 out is easy for Sanguinary Guard/Death Company/AL Cultists/whatever, but you've only killed 1 unit of the rest. Will have to list build.

On the other hand, blocking Alphas is only useful if you have units to protect. If we consider DS Destroyers, and the rest of our list is redundant Troops or hardy combat Wraiths, there's not much the opponent wants to Alpha off the board before we come in, meaning that type of list doesn't necessarily need super strong bubble wrap.


The meta issue I'm currently seeing is our ability to clear hordes while also contesting the objectives they're going for. If there are midfield objectives that 40 Cultists/Zombies are sitting on, or 30 Bloodletters charge into your backfield objectives, you need to be able to wrest that Marker back from them, which is not an easy task. Tesla helps, but you can't rely on 3 units all surviving the alpha to support one another.

Again, as I've said, Flayed Ones are quite good at the task - while they might not be great as an Alpha Strike unit, they may be our best option as a Beta Strike unit to counter aggressive Charges or Infiltrates. In fact, a unit of them inside the NScythe/Monolith that stays in your zone can be a huge deterrent for the opponent, since even if they kill it you can pop out the Flayed Ones for a nasty counterattack.

Playtesting required.


Immotek is amazing though. He is our Abbadon. He may cost 200 but he does the job of 2 overlords, while regening CP's as well as providing one and then his storm ability is very strong. Sure it's one use, but with a CP reroll it only fails once in 36 games and averages ~4 mortal wounds. Thats pretty solid when you knock out a quad heavy bolter or unit of reapers first turn. Splash damage is just extra gravy. I think he is our most efficient HQ by a mile.


I agree. Now that he's essentially two Overlords welded together with the best Warlord Trait and a free CP, you'll never be wrong to take him in my mind. He's not required, but his efficiency is pretty astounding.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 14:37:12


Post by: Red Corsair


 Therion wrote:
It’s sad but you can be right that 3 vaults, 3x5 immortals, 2 crypteks and 2x scarabs might be the most competitive list.


Yea I was excited at first because the list is so bizarre, but then soured on how bland it will get just dumping tesla and morrtal wounds every turn. But honestly I have no idea how I would beat that list with even my guard since the math on shooting down a Vault is incredible. It essentially wastes all your opponents anti infantry.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 14:37:36


Post by: Slipspace


 Therion wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
The other big problem with list building is alpha strike defense. How do you stop Blood Angels charging out of deep strike? Or anything that arrives in rapid fire range? The closest thing we have to a disposable screen is Scarabs but they're not great at it. The only way to "infiltrate" is with the Deceiver but you're not going to be paying his points just to put disposable screening units forward.


I already posted this concern twice but it's been glossed over. Tournament results later will confirm this glaring hole, because it looks like there's no answer. All of the faceroll deep strike bombs, super infiltrates (AL/RG/ADMech), or even outdated builds like Plasma Scions will do a huge number on Necrons. They simply don't have the tools that everyone in the tournament circuit consider 'must haves'. Even generic bubblewrap isn't generally considered sufficient -- You need Marine Scouts or Nurglings to really be safe. Unless you're Eldar. Because Eldar are just that special.

That said, I'd like people to discuss alternatives, but I guess we aren't really at that point. We're still at the "bickering about whether a trash unit is really trash or just bad" point.


I think Warriors are the best answer we have to this sort of problem. It's a good example of why pure spreadsheet calculations aren't completely reliable. You need to consider things other than an individual unit's survivability and damage output when putting a list together.

Our deepstrike protection/screening comes either from Scarabs or Warriors. I take a mix of the two. Scarabs have more wounds per point to absorb Smites but Warriors are very useful for Deepstrike screening because I generally want to keep them as a screen for my other shooting units, so they'll move up with them whereas Scarabs are often pushed further forward earlier in order to tie up key enemy units - something they're a bit better at now the have Fly. Neither are anywhere near as good as Cultists or Poxwalkers, or even Scouts, but few things are. It's a definite weakness of our army, exacerbated by a need to bunch up more than others due to our short-range overlapping buffs.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 14:46:32


Post by: Therion


 Red Corsair wrote:
 Therion wrote:
It’s sad but you can be right that 3 vaults, 3x5 immortals, 2 crypteks and 2x scarabs might be the most competitive list.


Yea I was excited at first because the list is so bizarre, but then soured on how bland it will get just dumping tesla and morrtal wounds every turn. But honestly I have no idea how I would beat that list with even my guard since the math on shooting down a Vault is incredible. It essentially wastes all your opponents anti infantry.


I’ve run triple superheavies as Astra (sword x2 and banehammer) and it’s a very competitive army. More so than the Vaults. Because as Astra you get 3 Hurricane Shield Captains in a Supreme Command, the tanks in Super Det, and the cheapo Battalion (and some mortars) with cp refunds, making the army very very versatile.

The tanks also have that weird ruling they can overwatch even if already engaged in melee and with defensive gunners many armies can’t really charge a Shadowsword at all. I’ve played tournament games vs Nids who deep strike Trygons, Stealers and Tyrants to their own zone because the overwatch would be too brutal.

Good post above me about spreadsheet damage potential vs real world matchups. The Necron design style (footslogging elite) isn’t really a succesful model in 8th edition. The only footslogger MEQ list I’ve seen have real success is the Raven Guard 18 Aggressors bomb that double shots you for 400 times at S4 with hit and wound rerolls turn 1a, making it a brutal stomper, but that’s because of the super infiltrate. They can table most of the Necron stuff too 1a. Necrons can’t really even counter this because the Scouts make a landing zone up middle in the face of the Necrons. And if the Necrons do kill some models, the Ancient guarantees the Marines keep trading more points efficiently.




Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 14:53:01


Post by: Red Corsair


Something else I considered and I know it may seem like heresy. But with our range bands and sledge hammer units with mobility issues maybe we don't need to worry about the midfield as much as it seems. Similar concept to taking 3 vaults, just let them have the center and scrub it clean of them. Our army is pretty unique in that it can absorb an alpha strike fairly well.

Also this might sound nuts, but why not use wraiths to screen? They are fast enough, utilizing the strat anyway to get them in on turn 1 if your going first, but more importantly if going second they can absorb a hit and cannot be tied up now. It won't work for every list but if you wanted them already it helps a bit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Therion wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
 Therion wrote:
It’s sad but you can be right that 3 vaults, 3x5 immortals, 2 crypteks and 2x scarabs might be the most competitive list.


Yea I was excited at first because the list is so bizarre, but then soured on how bland it will get just dumping tesla and morrtal wounds every turn. But honestly I have no idea how I would beat that list with even my guard since the math on shooting down a Vault is incredible. It essentially wastes all your opponents anti infantry.


I’ve run triple superheavies as Astra (sword x2 and banehammer) and it’s a very competitive army. More so than the Vaults. Because as Astra you get 3 Hurricane Shield Captains in a Supreme Command, the tanks in Super Det, and the cheapo Battalion (and some mortars) with cp refunds, making the army very very versatile.

The tanks also have that weird ruling they can overwatch even if already engaged in melee and with defensive gunners many armies can’t really charge a Shadowsword at all. I’ve played tournament games vs Nids who deep strike Trygons, Stealers and Tyrants to their own zone because the overwatch would be too brutal.





Yea shadowswords are gross. They would be a solid opponent for the vault list but honestly that list itself has some hard counters. Eldar being the number one offender, since guard super heavies suck against opponents they can't hit.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 15:18:18


Post by: vipoid


 Red Corsair wrote:

Immotek is amazing though. He is our Abbadon. He may cost 200 but he does the job of 2 overlords, while regening CP's as well as providing one and then his storm ability is very strong. Sure it's one use, but with a CP reroll it only fails once in 36 games and averages ~4 mortal wounds. Thats pretty solid when you knock out a quad heavy bolter or unit of reapers first turn. Splash damage is just extra gravy. I think he is our most efficient HQ by a mile.


He's good, but I think you're dead wrong on the efficiency part. Or at least half wrong.

See, in terms of points, I'm entirely in agreement. For about the same cost as 2 Overlords, he brings the same buff, plus several other nice things.

However, we then get to the issue of Detachments, where the Stormlord is far less efficient. Because, whilst those 2 Overlords might be less efficient in points, they're far more efficient in terms of Detachment because each one of them can fill out a mandatory HQ slot. Meanwhile, the Stormlord is stuck filling out just one slot - so you need another HQ on top of the 200pts you've spent already.

And, quite honestly, I don't think it's worth bringing more of our HQs than you absolutely need. Especially when we lack any cheap HQs to fill out mandatory slots.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 15:20:07


Post by: Drakmord


Kdash wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/13/unit-focus-necron-cryptek-with-canoptek-cloakgw-homepage-post-2/

Cryptek reveal... Kinda feels.... Like a waste of time and effort!


The article claims that it's only a few extra points to take the Cloak -- but it's that or the chronometron, not both, and the cloak costs less. They likely mean a few points over the base cost of the model, but GW rarely writes with clarity.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 15:21:21


Post by: vipoid


Kdash wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/13/unit-focus-necron-cryptek-with-canoptek-cloakgw-homepage-post-2/

Cryptek reveal... Kinda feels.... Like a waste of time and effort!


Which part is the Canoptek Cloak?

Is it supposed to be that scarab-thing he's riding?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 15:22:53


Post by: Ghaz


 vipoid wrote:
Kdash wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/13/unit-focus-necron-cryptek-with-canoptek-cloakgw-homepage-post-2/

Cryptek reveal... Kinda feels.... Like a waste of time and effort!


Which part is the Canoptek Cloak?

Is it supposed to be that scarab-thing he's riding?

Yes. That is the cloak.




Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 15:28:08


Post by: Doctoralex


Huh, I just noticed; it says in the codex that you MAY take a Chrometron or a Canoptek cloak on a Cryptek. You can get a pretty cheap Cryptek by not taking anything.

A basic Cryptek will only cost 80 points, 7 more than a Lord. And he comes with a Staff of Light, which can be upgraded to one of the Relic staffs.

I've always seen the 5++ a bit pointless for my Warrior blobs. When are you gonna get shot by massive amounts of AP-2 stuff? Eldar Bladestorm and Rubric Marines are the only thing I can come up with.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 15:33:08


Post by: Red Corsair


 vipoid wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:

Immotek is amazing though. He is our Abbadon. He may cost 200 but he does the job of 2 overlords, while regening CP's as well as providing one and then his storm ability is very strong. Sure it's one use, but with a CP reroll it only fails once in 36 games and averages ~4 mortal wounds. Thats pretty solid when you knock out a quad heavy bolter or unit of reapers first turn. Splash damage is just extra gravy. I think he is our most efficient HQ by a mile.


He's good, but I think you're dead wrong on the efficiency part. Or at least half wrong.

See, in terms of points, I'm entirely in agreement. For about the same cost as 2 Overlords, he brings the same buff, plus several other nice things.

However, we then get to the issue of Detachments, where the Stormlord is far less efficient. Because, whilst those 2 Overlords might be less efficient in points, they're far more efficient in terms of Detachment because each one of them can fill out a mandatory HQ slot. Meanwhile, the Stormlord is stuck filling out just one slot - so you need another HQ on top of the 200pts you've spent already.

And, quite honestly, I don't think it's worth bringing more of our HQs than you absolutely need. Especially when we lack any cheap HQs to fill out mandatory slots.


If your taking 2 overlords then your lacking crypteks aren't you? If your skipping on crypteks in your battalion your doing it wrong. Infantry needs the invuln and boost to RP. So in a battalion if your going to match the overlord efficiency of Immotek you would need two OL plus that cryptek. There is no way of slicing it where you pay less tax and get away with more CP's. Immotek brings the CP of an entire detachment alone while also filling an HQ for a battalion. All while doing the job of two OL.

So sure you can take two OL (188) in a battalion while I will take Immotek and a cryptek (295). But I am getting the exact same milage as you PLUS the cryptek AND I am getting another detachments CP, good luck getting that cryptek and filling a nother detachment with 107 points...


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 15:34:40


Post by: Ghaz


Doctoralex wrote:
Huh, I just noticed; it says in the codex that you MAY take a Chrometron or a Canoptek cloak on a Cryptek. You can get a pretty cheap Cryptek by not taking anything.

For just five points, the cloak is an auto take if you're not using the chronometron.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 15:38:06


Post by: Red Corsair


I wouldn't give every cryptek a cronometron, but the fact it buffs things like destroyers is nice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anyone considered Nihilak wraiths? If you position objectives smart it shouldn't be hard to get them to assault near them and that stratagem can give them a 2++

I suppose this makes them even more vulnerable to Smite, but mind you not every army is loaded with smite, especially with the beta rules.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 15:46:52


Post by: vipoid


 Red Corsair wrote:
If your taking 2 overlords then your lacking crypteks aren't you?


Well, I was using the example of 2 Overlords because that's what the Stormlord was compared to. In terms of whether we'd actually want 2 Overlords in the first place, I agree that that's an important question.

Personally, whilst I like having MWBD, I don't find it to be a particularly outstanding buff in most cases. What's more, there are other HQs I'd be considering as well - most notably Crypteks (possibly also a Destroyer Lord, because I'd want to use my model even if the rules are lacklustre).

 Red Corsair wrote:
If your skipping on crypteks in your battalion your doing it wrong. Infantry needs the invuln and boost to RP.


Does it not depend at all on the infantry you have? I thought the consensus with the index was that Crypteks were good with Warriors but largely wasted on Immortals?

 Red Corsair wrote:
So in a battalion if your going to match the overlord efficiency of Immotek you would need two OL plus that cryptek. There is no way of slicing it where you pay less tax and get away with more CP's. Immotek brings the CP of an entire detachment alone while also filling an HQ for a battalion. All while doing the job of two OL.


True.

 Red Corsair wrote:

So sure you can take two OL (188) in a battalion while I will take Immotek and a cryptek (295). But I am getting the exact same milage as you PLUS the cryptek AND I am getting another detachments CP, good luck getting that cryptek and filling a nother detachment with 107 points...


Or I could take a Cryptek instead of one of the Overlords? Hell, I could take Crypteks in place of both of them if I value them more. I don't see why this is such a massive issue.

Also, I might not be able to get another detachment for 107pts, but I could get another Destroyer and Heavy Destroyer. In all honesty, I would probably value them more than 1CP and an extra use of MWBD.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:03:23


Post by: Odrankt


You could just take a Sautekh Overlord and Cryptek and use the 1CP Stratgem to MWBD twice? Cheaper then Imotekh and a Cryptek, can still take the Sautekh Dynasty trait. You do lose an Extra CP but that won't matter if you can finish the game early.

And, if your taking an Overlord you might as well upgrade to a CCB for the extra points, mobility and 12" command wave.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:05:34


Post by: Lord of Nonsensical Crap


I've been looking at Novokh and just had a terrible idea for dealing with Dawneagle Captains and the like:

CCB- Blood Scythe, anti-character WL trait

That's a potential 9 attacks, rerolling misses against enemy heroes. Good/bad idea?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:08:16


Post by: Galef


 Odrankt wrote:
And, if your taking an Overlord you might as well upgrade to a CCB for the extra points, mobility and 12" command wave.

Indeed, please let me kill your Overlord on turn 1. CCB is not a Character and thus can be targeted.

-


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:09:48


Post by: Darsath


 Galef wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
And, if your taking an Overlord you might as well upgrade to a CCB for the extra points, mobility and 12" command wave.

Indeed, please let me kill your Overlord on turn 1. CCB is not a Character and thus can be targeted.

-


Command Barge still has the character keyword in the codex, and has less than 10 wounds. So he can't be targeted unless he's the closest target.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:09:51


Post by: Red Corsair


@ Vpoid I mean your examining Immotek with extreme prejudiced but then stating you want to take sub-optimal options just because. Similar to the FO discussion, I am not going to tell you what to take. I am being objective. He is an incredible buy for an army if you are looking at acquiring CP's and having a buff character.

Of course you can always take a bare bones battalion for 335. But it won't add much to your army beyond CP's. Perhaps this is an option if your spamming destroyers from another detachment, but now your army is incredibly thin on the ground and won't have much board control.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:10:18


Post by: Therion


It is a character, though. You might want to check before you attack people’s ideas.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:12:13


Post by: Red Corsair


Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:
I've been looking at Novokh and just had a terrible idea for dealing with Dawneagle Captains and the like:

CCB- Blood Scythe, anti-character WL trait

That's a potential 9 attacks, rerolling misses against enemy heroes. Good/bad idea?


I like it. I think I'd go all in on FO and/or scarabs and wraiths from that detachment.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:16:49


Post by: Galef


Darsath wrote:
 Galef wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
And, if your taking an Overlord you might as well upgrade to a CCB for the extra points, mobility and 12" command wave.

Indeed, please let me kill your Overlord on turn 1. CCB is not a Character and thus can be targeted.

-


Command Barge still has the character keyword in the codex, and has less than 10 wounds. So he can't be targeted unless he's the closest target.

I was looking at the Index (where it does NOT have the character keyword). Very nice. I didn't think they'd change that.

I concede, CCB is the obvious choice then.

-


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:18:28


Post by: mhalko1


I don't know ifthey were ever really taken but the Night shroud is not in the codex. Index unit only apparently.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:21:23


Post by: JNAProductions


mhalko1 wrote:
I don't know ifthey were ever really taken but the Night shroud is not in the codex. Index unit only apparently.


The Night Shroud? Isn't that FW?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:21:49


Post by: Red Corsair


 Odrankt wrote:
You could just take a Sautekh Overlord and Cryptek and use the 1CP Stratgem to MWBD twice? Cheaper then Imotekh and a Cryptek, can still take the Sautekh Dynasty trait. You do lose an Extra CP but that won't matter if you can finish the game early.

And, if your taking an Overlord you might as well upgrade to a CCB for the extra points, mobility and 12" command wave.


Except now your taking a battalion to gain CP's that you will then be using right off to compensate for the deficiencies.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:22:02


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


Here's another way I'm looking at Imotekh:

Assuming you wanted a Battalion and at least one other 1 CP detachment, he can take the place of 2 HQs for a similar price.

Say you have 3 troops and 3 Elites for a 7 CP army. You need 3 HQs for this. Or you could just take Imotekh and one HQ and keep it as a Battalion- it will be a similar cost and the same amount of CPs.

Taken like this he seems a decent choice. The problem I've been having is that if I'm writing a list where I need 3 HQ's, I can't justify making one of them cost 200pts. The tax is already way too high.

So, while he seems pretty good on paper, it's really a question of how he fits into the detachments you're taking as to whether or not you want him. Most of the time his +1CP won't be a bonus, it will just make him an equal choice compared with 2 cheaper HQs.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:23:22


Post by: mhalko1


 JNAProductions wrote:
mhalko1 wrote:
I don't know ifthey were ever really taken but the Night shroud is not in the codex. Index unit only apparently.


The Night Shroud? Isn't that FW?


Yes it may be. Good catch. I was just looking at units on battlescribe back to back with the codex pages and they don't list units as being from FW anymore.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:24:16


Post by: Grimgold


I just want to take a moment to appreciate skoffs for the term salad, it's like soup but using a single codex. I will henceforth be using this to describe multi dynasty necron armies.

I saw a question earlier about this being a beta codex and the answer is yes, there will almost assuredly be changes between the leak and what hits the shelves. For instance several units didn't get a balance pass, such as the obelisk.

Immohotek is interesting, He is actually a fairly good choice for salads since his MWBD can affect any necron unit regardless of dynasty. So you can grab a patrol or such from another dynasty and not have to bring along an overlord. For the points though I think I would rather have the nemesor, his second buff is not as reliable, but counter tactics is such a hard counter to so many builds with all of the chapter masters and primarchs we see on the board.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:27:48


Post by: JNAProductions


What's the range on Counter Tactics, though?


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:28:11


Post by: Red Corsair


Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Here's another way I'm looking at Imotekh:

Assuming you wanted a Battalion and at least one other 1 CP detachment, he can take the place of 2 HQs for a similar price.

Say you have 3 troops and 3 Elites for a 7 CP army. You need 3 HQs for this. Or you could just take Imotekh and one HQ and keep it as a Battalion- it will be a similar cost and the same amount of CPs.

Taken like this he seems a decent choice. The problem I've been having is that if I'm writing a list where I need 3 HQ's, I can't justify making one of them cost 200pts. The tax is already way too high.

So, while he seems pretty good on paper, it's really a question of how he fits into the detachments you're taking as to whether or not you want him. Most of the time his +1CP won't be a bonus, it will just make him an equal choice compared with 2 cheaper HQs.


He works best in a battalion that your fleshing out. If all your trying to do is farm CP's taking thin battalions then he won't be worth it. I also really like his storm ability though, something that think other posters are really underestimating. It's literally a big smite with 48 inch range that you pick the target as long as it isn't a character below 10 wounds, that then little smites on a 16% chance anything nearby. How this can wilfully be ignored as piece of the equation is bizarre to me.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:28:23


Post by: Moosatronic Warrior


Imotekh can only target Sautekh with MWBD if he wants to do it twice.

He is always worth considering because he can be as good as 2 HQs for similar price. He isn't in any way amazing though.

The storm is just ok, it depends what you're up against. There's a decent chance you just do a couple of wounds to something. It's out on it's own and not part of any strategy your building for.



Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:32:19


Post by: Ghaz


 Galef wrote:
Darsath wrote:
 Galef wrote:
 Odrankt wrote:
And, if your taking an Overlord you might as well upgrade to a CCB for the extra points, mobility and 12" command wave.

Indeed, please let me kill your Overlord on turn 1. CCB is not a Character and thus can be targeted.

-


Command Barge still has the character keyword in the codex, and has less than 10 wounds. So he can't be targeted unless he's the closest target.

I was looking at the Index (where it does NOT have the character keyword). Very nice. I didn't think they'd change that.

I concede, CCB is the obvious choice then.

-

It was updated to have the CHARACTER keyword in the first FAQ for Index Xenos 1.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:34:38


Post by: Grimgold


 JNAProductions wrote:
What's the range on Counter Tactics, though?


12", but that's plenty for most in your face special characters like mortarion or Dante.


Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers] @ 2018/03/13 16:40:18


Post by: Lothmar


Someone was asking about Nemesor earlier so apparently that stuck in my mind when I went back and was reading.

Veil of Darkness: Bearer and 1 dynasty infantry unit… *snickers* Damnit brain.

I don’t know why, but I just imagined a cryptek porting Nemesor up with this to the 9" mark and then Obyron appearing with his squad even closer with ghost walk mantle for a very amusing squad hop. Also since this is all done in the same phase that means you could mwbd the group obyron is taking before they get dropped into a 3-4 inch charge.

Granted in the same light I kind of want to run a monolith and GI it forward if only so I can play a song from my phone and then say 'Its show time' like hes exiting onto a stage. *Que welcome to the jungle as Obyron and team appear on the stage around him before rushing in*

It feels a little wasteful but im a filthy casual so #Presentation