Galas wrote: (The only extrange thing I have saw about this is people saying the girl with the slingshot in the Sigmar one has a hiyab... but then in her character draw in the information section she doesn't wear it... I'm the only one that saw her and first thought "ah, thats a hood"? I'm too inocent?)
Sounds like the perpetual far-right outrage machine is running at full speed . And no you aren't too innocent. You are normal.
Commissar Benny wrote: Its has no visibility, which is why most of its community is older. A comic book isn't going to resolve that.
Introducing people to the universe through fiction, and then pointing out to them that there's a game set in that universe they're enjoying reading about is a viable marketing tactic. It's just a slightly smaller scale (and exponentially cheaper) version of what toy manufacturers have been doing with kids' cartoons since the 80s.
The glory days of retail stores are gone. Trying to stuff the online retail genie back in the bottle is an excercise in futility, and it's good that GW seem to be finally realising that and looking for other ways to expand their brand.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Sounds like the perpetual far-right outrage machine is running at full speed .
And no you aren't too innocent. You are normal.
I see Dakka is playing 'Nazis in my cereal' again over one or two idiots on the internet.
I think it's a great idea to introduce kids into this, as it can be a rewarding hobby.
I just wonder how a bunch of kids are going to hold back the might of a black crusade, a necron army, or ork spacehulk.
Or will they show their adventures fighting a single Grot, defeating it with the power of love and friendship and knowing they 'saved the day' while in the background the orks over-ran everwhere, killing everyone.
And what happens the day they run into a daemonette? Or flayed one? or any of the horrific things that 40k/fantasy can provide?
Commissar Benny wrote: Anyone who raise issue with this new installment or its fit with the 40k narrative, is immediately deemed "alt-right, white supremacist nazis, who are anti-diversity & hate children". I wish that was satire.
It's the go-to screech for anyone who doesn't have an actual argument. Losers need a boogeyman, you see.
I don't see 'issues' with the books at all. I think it's kind of funny, if I am being honest- but otherwise, no. Just a silly idea, something that no one asked for but maybe a few people will see their kids enjoy it. Like I said- buy the book for your kid, get him some snap-fit Primaris Marines, paint models together... not a bad thing at all.
Now granted, some people on a certain facebook page are claiming this is a victory and 'the end of muh white male 40k'- but those people are generally stupid, and of course they'd see a dumbed-down childrens' book with anti-violence themes as a 'victory'. And we both know that's not going to be the future of the main 40k Universe. Let them embrace a child's book- right on their level.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: I see Dakka is playing 'Nazis in my cereal' again over one or two idiots on the internet.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: It's the go-to screech for anyone who doesn't have an actual argument. [...]
Now granted, some people on a certain facebook page are claiming this is a victory and 'the end of muh white male 40k'- but those people are generally stupid, and of course they'd see a dumbed-down childrens' book with anti-violence themes as a 'victory'. And we both know that's not going to be the future of the main 40k Universe. Let them embrace a child's book- right on their level.
Now granted, some people on a certain facebook page are claiming this is a victory and 'the end of muh white male 40k'- but those people are generally stupid, and of course they'd see a dumbed-down childrens' book with anti-violence themes as a 'victory'. And we both know that's not going to be the future of the main 40k Universe. Let them embrace a child's book- right on their level.
I heard the next Horus Heresy big book is about White Scars. If anyone thought toy soldiers cant be any more white supremacists nazi here is the proof.
Now granted, some people on a certain facebook page are claiming this is a victory and 'the end of muh white male 40k'- but those people are generally stupid, and of course they'd see a dumbed-down childrens' book with anti-violence themes as a 'victory'. And we both know that's not going to be the future of the main 40k Universe. Let them embrace a child's book- right on their level.
I heard the next Horus Heresy big book is about White Scars. If anyone thought toy soldiers cant be any more white supremacists nazi here is the proof.
I'm not sure I understand. You know the background and what the White Scars are based on right?
I'm not sure I understand. You know the background and what the White Scars are based on right?
Hmm... Its actually a good thing you dont. We are living in a world where facts dont matter anyway. Embrace it! Embrace the chaos and start fighting with other people over trival things you think are important.
Now granted, some people on a certain facebook page are claiming this is a victory and 'the end of muh white male 40k'- but those people are generally stupid, and of course they'd see a dumbed-down childrens' book with anti-violence themes as a 'victory'. And we both know that's not going to be the future of the main 40k Universe. Let them embrace a child's book- right on their level.
I heard the next Horus Heresy big book is about White Scars. If anyone thought toy soldiers cant be any more white supremacists nazi here is the proof.
I'm not sure I understand. You know the background and what the White Scars are based on right?
He's taking the piss.
They have white in the name, ergo they are nazis.
As jokes go, its not great. 2/10, would not lol.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Sounds like the perpetual far-right outrage machine is running at full speed .
And no you aren't too innocent. You are normal.
I see Dakka is playing 'Nazis in my cereal' again over one or two idiots on the internet.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that it was something many people has said. I just read a bunch of random people talking about that, and it mentioned in a video of Arch-Warhammer. I pointed it out because it didn't even crossed my mind it could be a hiyab until that. My first impresion was "Shes the kind of sthealty girl, thats a hood".
(Now, I would say, being born in Aqshy, the realm of fire, I wouldn't had a problem with it being a hijab or other kind of similar dessert clothes. I have made my khorne barbarians of brown skin and bone armour for that same reason)
Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that it was something many people has said. I just read a bunch of random people talking about that, and it mentioned in a video of Arch-Warhammer. I pointed it out because it didn't even crossed my mind it could be a hiyab until that. My first impresion was "Shes the kind of sthealty girl, thats a hood".
Oh, no- that is what I thought. Arch and Hamblin are being fools over this.
I remember times where people were discussing the lack of greatcoat guardsmen when it comes to clothes. I think the first rumour were on the old Portent forums.
Today people are discussing if the hood on a cover of Warhammer children book is a hijab. Didnt cross my mind untill i read it but i have a pretty awful imagination.
Glumy wrote: I remember times where people were discussing the lack of greatcoat guardsmen when it comes to clothes. I think the first rumour were on the old Portent forums.
Today people are discussing if the hood on a cover of Warhammer children book is a hijab. Didnt cross my mind untill i read it but i have a pretty awful imagination.
It could be one and still fit. In fact, I want a Stormcast with a Hijab. And a Shemagh on a Space Marine. And Arab coffee, because why not?
Now granted, some people on a certain facebook page are claiming this is a victory and 'the end of muh white male 40k'- but those people are generally stupid, and of course they'd see a dumbed-down childrens' book with anti-violence themes as a 'victory'. And we both know that's not going to be the future of the main 40k Universe. Let them embrace a child's book- right on their level.
I heard the next Horus Heresy big book is about White Scars. If anyone thought toy soldiers cant be any more white supremacists nazi here is the proof.
I'm not sure I understand. You know the background and what the White Scars are based on right?
He's taking the piss.
They have white in the name, ergo they are nazis.
As jokes go, its not great. 2/10, would not lol.
Glumy wrote: I remember times where people were discussing the lack of greatcoat guardsmen when it comes to clothes. I think the first rumour were on the old Portent forums.
Today people are discussing if the hood on a cover of Warhammer children book is a hijab. Didnt cross my mind untill i read it but i have a pretty awful imagination.
It could be one and still fit. In fact, I want a Stormcast with a Hijab. And a Shemagh on a Space Marine. And Arab coffee, because why not?
Eh, why not.
I mean, Necrons with Sombreros are already a thing
These are christian ladies wearing headscarfs. That kind of stuff isn't exclusive from Islamic countries but it goes to show how ignorant some people can be.
Yeah, my grandmother weared a headscarf for 30 years after my grandfather died and I can tell you she was not muslim (But I still believe it is just a normal hood)
And to be honest we are arguing about this because theres not much else to talk about until we receive more information.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: I see Dakka is playing 'Nazis in my cereal' again over one or two idiots on the internet.
Well that's what happens when you overuse the word 'racist' until it completely loses all its meaning. There's no where else to go but escalation, which is why "White Supremacist" and "Nazi" are the norm for insults, rather than the extreme insults.
Although what is strange is how quick some are to call anyone who dislikes this a Nazi, or anit-diversity, or whatever.
What has any of this got to do with diversity? Race and gender are meaningless in 40K. All that matters are if you are human, and not a mutant/heretic/witch. If you are human and don't tick any of those three boxes, you're golden.
Some of us are against this just 'cause it's dumb! No more hidden motives than that.
Nostromodamus wrote: Necromunda had an actual KKK-robed gang and people are worried about a head dress?
No it doesn't. It has red-hooded Redemptionists. If you think they're KKK then that's you projecting something that's not there.
Nostromodamus wrote: Necromunda had an actual KKK-robed gang and people are worried about a head dress?
Actually the KKK took it from really old (and weird) Catholic attire- namely, something people on a penance would wear. The KKK was very Anti-Catholic and was wearing it as a sort of a middle finger to the Spanish Catholic restrictions placed on French Catholics. Yeah, I know- it doesn't make sense but it is what it is.
It falls in line with the Redemptionist's theme of being a bunch of extreme religious moral authoritarians, sort of a thing with a lot of the classic 40k satire.
Though I would actually laugh if someone painted them like a bunch of hillbilly klansmen.
A casual observer of 40k must know how these stories end.
The ganger gets shot by a commissar for deserting the guard, if not shoved into a penal legion to slow a tyranid advance. The martian either gets disassembled for servitor components when he tries to innovate or gradually becomes less human as he purges weak organic components (like his arm, and pleasure centers)
The 'girl without fear' who carries no weapons will suffer the fate of any brave soul in a horror movie.
They cannot rise to significance in 40k without attracting the kind of attention or dangers that will bring these consequences upon them.
Edit:
I may as well throw in my 2c as to what I would have done.
Have enemy du jour overrun a world with a schola progenium. The schola is evacuated Tanith style, making the kids now mobile on a ship. They now have the narrative freedom to explore new worlds/space stations, interact with the variuous forces of the Imperium at muster points and slip the leash of their overseers when they discover treasonous plots etc.
This has the advantage of immediate emotional resonance as not all of the children's peers/friends will make it off the world (they die off screen, protecting the retreating shuttles) and gives them plenty of plot to discuss off the bat. Combined classes/tight living spaces might result in sororita inititiates forced to work with commissar cadets, ecclesiarchal neophytes etc.
Alternatively, hive kids from the mid levels, not the underhive, when Cain shows up to save the day. We the reader are shown the hypocrisy and black humour horror of the Imperium through the kids eyes but they never see it themselves. They consider Cain to be 100% the real deal and the Imperium to always have their interests at heart.
Honestly the whole thing sort of reminds me of those Happy Harry parodies, in that it adds a cartoony 1980s kids spin to serious and dark subject matters... Like 40K. When I first saw it I honestly thought it was a parody.
I legit don't understand the amount of vitriol this is generating. I've not seen people sperg out over something so harmless in a while.
From what I can see the complaints mainly seem to be "MUH 40K IS A MATURE SETTING WITH MATURE THEMES" and "Kids don't like reading about kids". Well, the former is true but its a big galaxy and despite what the fluff presents there's plenty of people who live out their lives in relative peace. If there's room for giant space whales and ramshackle teleporter highways there's room for kids having adventures. With regards to the latter, this is true to an extent, especially with teenagers, but the book is aimed at pre-teens who look up to older kids before they do adults. Avatar: The Last Airbender wasn't a sucess because of the big 30 year old man following it had.
The other main complaint about the multiculturalism. When I was a nipper nearly every thing had a variety of races on whatever super team I was watching. Thundercats didn't but they weren't human I suppose (and the Thundercats reboot is what we should REALLY be angry about). It's not new for a corporate entity to include a variety of back grounds into their kids thing. It's like people have forgotten their own childhood so that they can be outraged, it's just that the world has moved on and the Power Rangers need to have an Indian kid in the roster alongside the black and Asian ones. For the record I'm not an SJW. I like my bikini armour and male space marines and combat heels. I can just recognise when a corporation does something that it's financially motivated to appeal to as many people as possible just like every kids show ever.
What I am angry about:
The Imperial Guard lad abandoned his Emperor-given duty to protect the Imperium and the AdMech kid is a heretek and will likely succumb to Chaos and infuse a daemon into that arm thing he's rigged up. These books are about cowards and heresy and I am going to write a strongly worded letter to someone.
You: there are two extremes
Me: *something about the two extremes*
You: if you think there are two extremes here you must be an extremist
Then I think we have misunderstood one another, and if that's the case and you're agreeing with what I say- then so be it. (I'll write that off as being on my phone and maybe not paying too much attention to the name of who's responding, I remember avatars more often than names).
Fortunately, idiots are in the minority... but like any idiot, they tend to be loud.
Sim-Life wrote: I legit don't understand the amount of vitriol this is generating. I've not seen people sperg out over something so harmless in a while.
A valid point: "I feel that directing this at extremely young children may have them wanting to get into the rest of the subject material, and many at such a young age aren't ready for the subject matter of the greater 40k Universe. It's difficult to tell a child that they can only have a small bite of the pie crust and not the rest."
A valid point: "I have kids and they show an interest in my hobby, but aren't ready for the heavy stuff. I can give them this."
Stupid point: "This is SJW B.S.!"
Stupid point: "This is a step in the right direction for GW to end the patriarchal edgy white male blah blah blah!"
Stupid point: "This is further proof that GW is going to ruin 40k!"
Joke point: "Hahaha, [insert commentary about what would actually happen to those kids]."
Joke point: "Well we all knew since Age of Sigmar that this was what GW thought of us!"
So, while there's a bit of solid points on both sides of the like/dislike debate and just a bit of ribbing- there's morons involved. And the morons are in the minority, but the way it works?
Moron A says stupid thing. Rational people ignore it and continue on. Moron B acts like Moron A's point of view is some massive epidemic and movement of morons. Then Moron B says something equally stupid, which Moron A believes is validation for his point. Meanwhile everyone else is ignoring it, while Morons are using each others' stupidity to 'prove' that there's a 'massive issue'.
In other words, it's fake news and nothingburger and the bottom of the barrel seems to be eating it up. Because bored, pathetic losers have nothing better to worry about.
SeanDrake wrote: I give it a month before some mothers in the US are burning copies of it and screaming for it to be band.
I don't know if you've been tracking, my friend across the pond, but our religious fundies haven't had much power in the country for a long time. Technically if there's a book burning, we're more likely to see it in your country- sanctioned by the government.
Of course we do have our loonies that do that from time to time, we just make fun of them.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: Then I think we have misunderstood one another, and if that's the case and you're agreeing with what I say- then so be it.
I am disagreeing with you I guess but not the way you think I do?
I said you complained about us talking about the tiny minority who complains about this book because they are far-right culture warrior but then you talked about the tiny minority who laud these books because they are left-wing culture warrior, so it's confusing if we are supposed to talk about the reaction for the different sides of culture warrior minorities or not.
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Adeptus Doritos wrote: Technically if there's a book burning, we're more likely to see it in your country- sanctioned by the government.
Government-sanctioned book burning in the UK? What are you talking about?
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: I said you complained about us talking about the tiny minority who complains about this book because they are far-right culture warrior but then you talked about the tiny minority who laud these books because they are left-wing culture warrior, so it's confusing if we are supposed to talk about the reaction for the different sides of culture warrior minorities or not.
I talked about both of them, because both versions are idiots. I'm not going to defend either one of them, because neither of them deserve validation and both should be mocked into the darker corners of the internet where they belong. That way the sane, rational adults can enjoy the game regardless of their differences. Because really, some folks can't let a good thing exist without dragging their personal ideologies into it (mostly because ideological extremists can't get anyone else to listen to their nonsense).
So yes, there are two sides and both of them are stupid. I'll defend neither and mock both.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: I'm not going to defend either one of them, because neither of them deserve validation and both should be mocked into the darker corners of the internet where they belong.
Ok then I guess I misunderstood your " I see Dakka is playing 'Nazis in my cereal' again over one or two idiots on the internet." line as saying we shouldn't talk about them, when you meant we shouldn't overstate their numbers ?
Adeptus Doritos wrote: It's a joke referencing some of the silly laws about speech in the UK. Just a gag, nothing to take too seriously. Calm down, homie.
Oh ok. Because the last book burning thing I remember was quite a long time ago and in the US. It was that guy Terry Jones I guess? That's what web searches tell me.
I'm fine with the UK laws and I'm fine with anyone burning any book they legally own, as long as it doesn't have some big cultural/historical significance. The book itself, not the text, I mean. I'd be pissed if someone burned some very rare first edition of a book or whatever. Sure, it would be their right to do so, but I'd be pissed still.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Ok then I guess I misunderstood your " I see Dakka is playing 'Nazis in my cereal' again over one or two idiots on the internet." line as saying we shouldn't talk about them, when you meant we shouldn't overstate their numbers ?
We have a saying here every time someone wants to talk about 'Cash me Ousside' girl, Tekashi69, Lil Tay, or some other drama-farming attention-junkie: "Stop enabling stupid people." Idiots of any walk of life are fueled by attention, and this day and age I'm convinced that being rational and reasonable isn't what the worst elements of our culture want, because 'rational and reasonable' don't get clicks on Youtube and don't get Twitter followers.
So, are there 'alt-right' morons making this a big deal? Yep. Are there far-left morons doing the same? Yep. Are there people trying to turn something as simple as a childrens' book into a cultural battleground? Yep.
Starve the fire, don't throw any sticks on it. If anything, piss on it and laugh and walk away.
I know you're not, lad. No one is. Not for a long time. I think the last time I saw someone talking about burning a book, it was some of the crazies (that both of our countries have).
Adeptus Doritos wrote: We have a saying here every time someone wants to talk about 'Cash me Ousside' girl, Tekashi69, Lil Tay, or some other drama-farming attention-junkie: "Stop enabling stupid people."
Well it seems to be working super well because... I have absolutely no idea who these people are .
Adeptus Doritos wrote: Starve the fire, don't throw any sticks on it. If anything, piss on it and laugh and walk away.
Yeah I agree, most of my points here were pretty similar to the first "valid point" on the issue that you raised.
Well maybe not pissing on the fire. I mean, I'm not sure what it means exactly in the case of this analogy but it sounds like it could get messy .
That should cover Potter and these books should trigger the same loons.
Coloured characters, Female lead characters, a non Christian religion, Deamons, Magic and the list goes on of what could cause offense.to certain people.
SeanDrake wrote: Silly me I apologise I thought you made them president.
Oh, no. We elect jerks. But we've been around since 1775 and haven't had to dig steak knives out of bushes, try to ban porn, or put anyone in jail for a Nazi Pug, so at least we have that going for us. Sure, we've got a mass shooting every now and then, but we don't have the police departments on Twitter looking for trolls because we've got more important things to throw taxpayer dollars at.
SeanDrake wrote: Not sure but you do know my flag is the UK so even the current wing nuts in charge don't burn books?
That should cover Potter and these books should trigger the same loons.
Coloured characters, Female lead characters, a non Christian religion, Deamons, Magic and the list goes on of what could cause offense.to certain people.
Yeah, we have religious nuts. And they're an outlier that most of the country hates (even actual religious conservatives). But the UK and the US both have people that are offended for various things and want stuff 'banned' if it hurts their feelings.
SeanDrake wrote: I give it a month before some mothers in the US are burning copies of it and screaming for it to be band.
Of course we do have our loonies that do that from time to time, we just make fun of them.
Silly me I apologise I thought you made them president.
Not sure but you do know my flag is the UK so even the current wing nuts in charge don't burn books?
No, they just arrest people over tweets.
I can see this topic getting closed down. When the US vs Europe argument starts there's rarely any turning back.
Yeah I agree, most of my points here were pretty similar to the first "valid point" on the issue that you raised.
Well maybe not pissing on the fire. I mean, I'm not sure what it means exactly in the case of this analogy but it sounds like it could get messy .
Peeing in a fire isn't messy unless you're standing too close to it. Don't do that, lad.
But it's sort of a metaphor for "don't dignify either of them, just disrespect and walk away."
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Sim-Life wrote: No, they just arrest people over tweets.
I can see this topic getting closed down. When the US vs Europe argument starts there's rarely any turning back.
Hey, they're upset over losing the colonies. We can be good sports and let them have a little jabbing back and forth. It's all in good fun and I like the lads from the UK.
Did someone say Canadians? Why don’t we all have a molson and watch some hockey, eh? Those Golden Knights are doing real well for a new team, but I think those hosers back east will beat em!
Crazyterran wrote: Did someone say Canadians? Why don’t we all have a molson and watch some hockey, eh? Those Golden Knights are doing real well for a new team, but I think those hosers back east will beat em!
Throw in a Poutine, and we'll do it at arms' distance.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Well then I guess it does apply, disrespecting them can turn messy if you don't manage to get away just after doing so .
ritualnet wrote: I think it's a great idea to introduce kids into this, as it can be a rewarding hobby.
I just wonder how a bunch of kids are going to hold back the might of a black crusade, a necron army, or ork spacehulk.
Or will they show their adventures fighting a single Grot, defeating it with the power of love and friendship and knowing they 'saved the day' while in the background the orks over-ran everwhere, killing everyone.
And what happens the day they run into a daemonette? Or flayed one? or any of the horrific things that 40k/fantasy can provide?
Why would that ever happen? An overwhelming majority of the Imperium have no idea those things exist, let alone having ever met one... it's like asking how you would ever survive on earth without getting hit by lightning. Not saying they won't be facing overwhelming odds and every mystical being the galaxy has to offer, but there's no need to explain why they don't encounter that thing or this thing.
ritualnet wrote: I think it's a great idea to introduce kids into this, as it can be a rewarding hobby.
I just wonder how a bunch of kids are going to hold back the might of a black crusade, a necron army, or ork spacehulk.
Or will they show their adventures fighting a single Grot, defeating it with the power of love and friendship and knowing they 'saved the day' while in the background the orks over-ran everwhere, killing everyone.
And what happens the day they run into a daemonette? Or flayed one? or any of the horrific things that 40k/fantasy can provide?
Why would that ever happen? An overwhelming majority of the Imperium have no idea those things exist, let alone having ever met one... it's like asking how you would ever survive on earth without getting hit by lightning. Not saying they won't be facing overwhelming odds and every mystical being the galaxy has to offer, but there's no need to explain why they don't encounter that thing or this thing.
This is one of my big problems with how 40k is presented in general. The armies you play aren't every day encounters. People falling to Chaos doesn't happen overnight. A vast, vast majority of the citizens of the Imperium will never see a space marine. Many probably aren't even sure they exist at all. The fluff as we see it is very narrowly focussed on epic conflicts over a very long period of time so it's easy to think of 40k ONLY being about horrific warp spawned monstrosities and souless high tech androids because the fluff never talks about Bumblefeth XXIV, the remote agriworld whose biggest conflict in living memory was that time the Nesbitt boys stole the Birken's agritractor and took it on a joyride through the synthcorn fields.
I'm sure, as they will tone down some of the grimderp exagerations of the universe and hyperbolic writting of fanfic level like the Necron unit descriptions and how they weapons work, to make it more palatable for younger audiences, this kid's book will be the most realistic representation of Warhammer 40k, ever.
I enjoy complaining regardless if it effects me or not, that's why I still play GW's games.
If I wanted to be complain free I'd jump ship to bolt action or some such thing.
SeanDrake wrote: I think the amount of innocence GW is showing with these is kind of sweet.
I give it a month before some mothers in the US are burning copies of it and screaming for it to be band.
It has happened to everything from D&D to Harry Potter and including some previous GW releases.
GW previously avoided a lot of issues by saying there stuff was not intended for kids wh8ch obvious won't work this time.
GW wishes they had a profile large enough for mothers to care about burning or banning their books. Sadly, even if these kids raid a Slaaneshi rite and chainsword everyone to pieces, it still won't hit one tenth as high on the national outrage meter as a twerking gnome, and I'm pretty sure people just ignore the gnome now.
Carnikang wrote: Has anyone ever flipped through/read any of the 40k authors other works,?
Any BL authors or the specific authors writing the Adventures books?
Because, yes, I have read other stuff by Abnett, King, McNeill, Swallow, Thorpe and Farrer. And Mat Ward.
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JohnU wrote: I just feel like they missed an opportunity by not making them choose your own adventure books with the tagline "Forge the Narrative!"
GW out out three Fighting Fantasy style books a few years ago, but pulled them around the End Times. I've got Hive of the Dead and wish I had a chance to get the other two.
I love me some CYOA type books. Especially those with fighting and dice rolling involved.
I need more info on these GW styled Fighting Fantasy books.
I picked up one of the Destiny Quest books which feels like a Diablo/ MMORPG take on the genre. I'll have to pawn it off on BobtheInquisitor one of these days (who's Dungeon Saga book I've still got).
I've had a lot of success with Choose Your Own Adventure books getting reluctant readers to get more involved in the process. Anything that gives kids more agency in their education and personal improvement is a thumbs up in my classroom.
If I was 12 and they'd had these books out I might 'a read them. Maybe even liked them. As an adult with kids it leaves me with a weird feeling. Trying to imagine the Grim Dark as an experience for children... The IoM has picked up the Nick name Catholic National Socialists in space for a reason.
You know what, there is like a 0.1% probability of this being a GW troll.
They go, release the books, kids worldwide go get them and then it turns out that it's an 18+ horror story.
The tech heretic is found guilty of tech heresy and is put under severe torture and lobotomy until he is just a mindless servitor, when he happens to meet the filthy deserter in the penal region. They form a weird companionship as they are sent to a planet to slow a Necron flayed one attack, where they meet the pacifist girl, who after witnessing a robot kill her parents and then wear their skin suffers from sever ptsd such that see cannot bear to even look at a weapon.
The three then spend the rest of the book being chased by mechanical horrors through the sewers of the city until they all die horribly. The end.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I love me some CYOA type books. Especially those with fighting and dice rolling involved.
I need more info on these GW styled Fighting Fantasy books.
I picked up one of the Destiny Quest books which feels like a Diablo/ MMORPG take on the genre. I'll have to pawn it off on BobtheInquisitor one of these days (who's Dungeon Saga book I've still got).
I've had a lot of success with Choose Your Own Adventure books getting reluctant readers to get more involved in the process. Anything that gives kids more agency in their education and personal improvement is a thumbs up in my classroom.
There's a 40k one on the app store called Herald of Oblivion, it's quite good.
Red Marine wrote: If I was 12 and they'd had these books out I might 'a read them. Maybe even liked them. As an adult with kids it leaves me with a weird feeling. Trying to imagine the Grim Dark as an experience for children... The IoM has picked up the Nick name Catholic National Socialists in space for a reason.
The Imperium of Man is really a place where this kind of thing will work well. Remember that what we know, as omniscient observers, isn't the same as what the average citizens of the Imperium will encounter or be told.
Aren73 wrote: You know what, there is like a 0.1% probability of this being a GW troll.
They go, release the books, kids worldwide go get them and then it turns out that it's an 18+ horror story.
The tech heretic is found guilty of tech heresy and is put under severe torture and lobotomy until he is just a mindless servitor, when he happens to meet the filthy deserter in the penal region. They form a weird companionship as they are sent to a planet to slow a Necron flayed one attack, where they meet the pacifist girl, who after witnessing a robot kill her parents and then wear their skin suffers from sever ptsd such that see cannot bear to even look at a weapon.
The three then spend the rest of the book being chased by mechanical horrors through the sewers of the city until they all die horribly. The end.
That would be the greatest thing.
And by "greatest thing" you mean "the most moronic edgelord nonsense I've heard in a long time", I presume? Hell, why not throw in rape and mutilation while you're at it, just to drive home what an absolute cad you are.
The only thing I find more distasteful about this affair than the existence of 40k children's books in the first place is the open anticipatory glee of people who can't wait to get to ruin them for other people, often while painting vivid fantasies of defiling the underaged protagonists physically or mentally. Make of that what you will.
Aren73 wrote: You know what, there is like a 0.1% probability of this being a GW troll.
They go, release the books, kids worldwide go get them and then it turns out that it's an 18+ horror story.
The tech heretic is found guilty of tech heresy and is put under severe torture and lobotomy until he is just a mindless servitor, when he happens to meet the filthy deserter in the penal region. They form a weird companionship as they are sent to a planet to slow a Necron flayed one attack, where they meet the pacifist girl, who after witnessing a robot kill her parents and then wear their skin suffers from sever ptsd such that see cannot bear to even look at a weapon.
The three then spend the rest of the book being chased by mechanical horrors through the sewers of the city until they all die horribly. The end.
That would be the greatest thing.
And by "greatest thing" you mean "the most moronic edgelord nonsense I've heard in a long time", I presume? Hell, why not throw in rape and mutilation while you're at it, just to drive home what an absolute cad you are.
The only thing I find more distasteful about this affair than the existence of 40k children's books in the first place is the open anticipatory glee of people who can't wait to get to ruin them for other people, often while painting vivid fantasies of defiling the underaged protagonists physically or mentally. Make of that what you will.
Geez, I'm just saying that GW could have the sense of humour to make a joke of the idea of 40k children's books. The sort of "Well we could make children's books...but if we keep close to the lore this is what happens".
No one is saying something like that would be enjoyable to read, pleasant or nice or tasteful. It's the sheer fact of them printing it, or advertising it even, of GW making fun of their own over the top universe that is funny.
Let's make this clear, because it seems I actually have to spell it out, I'm not out for ruining anything for anyone, or making kids read gruesome stories that leave them scarred. I just find the idea of a kids toy company trying to write books for kids but running into a wall due to the nature of their non-child-friendly universe amusing.
Obviously they're just trying to expand their audience, get kids 8 and up reading their stories, assembling the easy to build Stormcast Eternals, making battlefields out of books and pillows and starting the hobby young. It's a great move, possibly more appropriate for a comic format, but overall it makes sense and frankly I think it's a fun enough hobby for such a young age, probably better for kids than spending the same amount of time playing, say, call of duty or something. I put together my first Necron warriors when I was 11, thinking this hobby is the best thing ever (though to be fair I did enjoy the grimdark setting at that age too, it didn't need to be sugar-coated to be appealing).
I really don't think you need to sensationalise people making fun of how inappropriate for young ages parts of the lore are.
And by "greatest thing" you mean "the most moronic edgelord nonsense I've heard in a long time", I presume? Hell, why not throw in rape and mutilation while you're at it, just to drive home what an absolute cad you are.
The only thing I find more distasteful about this affair than the existence of 40k children's books in the first place is the open anticipatory glee of people who can't wait to get to ruin them for other people, often while painting vivid fantasies of defiling the underaged protagonists physically or mentally. Make of that what you will.
Calm down, dude. It's a joke, sheesh. Do some yoga or something.
Aren73 wrote: You know what, there is like a 0.1% probability of this being a GW troll.
They go, release the books, kids worldwide go get them and then it turns out that it's an 18+ horror story.
The tech heretic is found guilty of tech heresy and is put under severe torture and lobotomy until he is just a mindless servitor, when he happens to meet the filthy deserter in the penal region. They form a weird companionship as they are sent to a planet to slow a Necron flayed one attack, where they meet the pacifist girl, who after witnessing a robot kill her parents and then wear their skin suffers from sever ptsd such that see cannot bear to even look at a weapon.
The three then spend the rest of the book being chased by mechanical horrors through the sewers of the city until they all die horribly. The end.
That would be the greatest thing.
And by "greatest thing" you mean "the most moronic edgelord nonsense I've heard in a long time", I presume? Hell, why not throw in rape and mutilation while you're at it, just to drive home what an absolute cad you are.
The only thing I find more distasteful about this affair than the existence of 40k children's books in the first place is the open anticipatory glee of people who can't wait to get to ruin them for other people, often while painting vivid fantasies of defiling the underaged protagonists physically or mentally. Make of that what you will.
IMO rape would be better saved for a chaos or tyranid encounter. Doesn't fit the Necro M.O.
Adepts Doritos - eh it's fine, he helped me learn a new word so all is good, we're all about the educational experience here on dakka.
As more of a genuine constructive criticism of the books - I think it might be a bit too formulaic, perhaps? It's very much "we have two main game systems, so let's make a book for each, with a generic story idea, to give an introduction to the world".
What if they made books about, for example, a Silver Tower type scenario, where Tzeentch is messing with the heroes they already have. He puts different challenges in their path and they have to outwit him in order to proceed and get the treasure. Firstly, I think that would make for a very fun book to read, secondly it can be about more than just fighting and combat but also logical puzzles, riddles and overcoming your fears. Power of friendship stuff. It has the added benefit that, because Tzeentch is maybe mad but likes to make things interesting, he would make the challenges appropriate for the characters. So they won't be facing down hordes of Chaos Warriors but rather riddles, puzzles and the occasional goblin/horror they have to overcome.
Right now it seems to be just two adverts for the most generic AoS and 40k there could be. Whereas to make it great they could have had a more wacky premise, like silver tower and base it on that.
Who knows though, maybe the authors are that amazing that despite the generic premise they will make these books outstanding and a pleasure to read for more than just their target audience.
As I have said a couple of times, based on the Star wars books written by the same two writers which are presumably the model for the warhammer books, they reminded me strongly of the Roald Dahl books, except of course that those books are much more terrifying. Nothing in 40k traumatised me nearly as much as The Witches and The BFG when I first read them.
Galas wrote: Yeah... I think people is really being too worked up with the "how are they gonna adapt genocide?!" Maybe they just don't need to do it.
Most people are joking. All the rational people I've seen discussing this online or spoken to about it thinks it's a 'silly idea' and we're just having a laugh over it. We're well aware none of the actual horrible grimdark is going to be watered down.
It's going to be like the difference between GI Joe comics and GI Joe cartoons.
Commissar Benny wrote: Its has no visibility, which is why most of its community is older. A comic book isn't going to resolve that.
The glory days of retail stores are gone. Trying to stuff the online retail genie back in the bottle is an excercise in futility, and it's good that GW seem to be finally realising that and looking for other ways to expand their brand.
I couldn't disagree more. GW games needs a thriving local community in order to attract and retain new customer. This is not a t-shirt company where you can simply order one online and don't care about the physical store.
As much as Kirby was an incompetent, and how frustrating it was for most of us, curtailling the online store was a great move. Sure the online store were profitable for GW in the short term, but it was killing the company slowly
Commissar Benny wrote: Its has no visibility, which is why most of its community is older. A comic book isn't going to resolve that.
The glory days of retail stores are gone. Trying to stuff the online retail genie back in the bottle is an excercise in futility, and it's good that GW seem to be finally realising that and looking for other ways to expand their brand.
I couldn't disagree more. GW games needs a thriving local community in order to attract and retain new customer. This is not a t-shirt company where you can simply order one online and don't care about the physical store.
As much as Kirby was an incompetent, and how frustrating it was for most of us, curtailling the online store was a great move. Sure it was profitable in the short term, but it was killing the company slowly
Gaming in the US is very different. The retail stores had very little to do with spreading WH here. However, Dawn of War, an expansion of the brand, brought plenty of new players to the game.
I couldn't disagree more. GW games needs a thriving local community in order to attract and retain new customer. This is not a t-shirt company where you can simply order one online and don't care about the physical store.
As much as Kirby was an incompetent, and how frustrating it was for most of us, curtailling the online store was a great move. Sure the online store were profitable for GW in the short term, but it was killing the company slowly
Yes, the game works better with a thriving community. No disagreement there. But that community well increasingly have to rely on something other than local stores. The brick and mortar retail industry is dying, and it's not coming back.
If they're smart, GW will start to expand their support of gaming clubs and tournaments again. That's where the future community will be found, not in your local games store.
Commissar Benny wrote: Its has no visibility, which is why most of its community is older. A comic book isn't going to resolve that.
The glory days of retail stores are gone. Trying to stuff the online retail genie back in the bottle is an excercise in futility, and it's good that GW seem to be finally realising that and looking for other ways to expand their brand.
I couldn't disagree more. GW games needs a thriving local community in order to attract and retain new customer. This is not a t-shirt company where you can simply order one online and don't care about the physical store.
As much as Kirby was an incompetent, and how frustrating it was for most of us, curtailling the online store was a great move. Sure it was profitable in the short term, but it was killing the company slowly
Gaming in the US is very different. The retail stores had very little to do with spreading WH here. However, Dawn of War, an expansion of the brand, brought plenty of new players to the game.
Really?
I always heard that it was the stores that were essential in making the game thrives in the US , but that in Europe, it was gaming clubs.
At least, this is the case in Montreal, and I would assume that it is the same in most big NA cities.
But I agree that video games are the way to go if they want to expand the brand (and by that, I mean AAA production, not sling the snotling games). Always thought it was mindboggling that they scrapped WHFB pretty much at the same time as they released the TW:W game. Such a missed opportunity imo
I always heard that it was the stores that were essential in making the game thrives in the US , but that in Europe, it was gaming clubs.
Eh, most people never heard of Warhammer 40k until Dawn of War came out. But oddly enough a lot of people had Hero Quest. The video games really boosted an interest in it, and still many of the fans out there in the US have never played a single game on tabletop.
For perspective, I know 'geeks' that gamed throughout the 90's that knew 'of it' but didn't start playing until 2007.
A small hero quest like game would work for something like this./ 20.00 sets with a few kid mini's and some basic enemy models, like a squad of orks or a 'nid, or something....
Grot 6 wrote: A small hero quest like game would work for something like this./ 20.00 sets with a few kid mini's and some basic enemy models, like a squad of orks or a 'nid, or something....
Could make it really simple, with cards for the 'monsters' and 'heroes' that tell you what dice to roll. Make the mechanics simple, have it be a co-op game...
Actually I'm gonna be kinda pissed off if we get a Co-Op 'Silver Tower' type game set in the 40k Universe for this kid thing before we get one for the actual game setting...
Commissar Benny wrote: Its has no visibility, which is why most of its community is older. A comic book isn't going to resolve that.
The glory days of retail stores are gone. Trying to stuff the online retail genie back in the bottle is an excercise in futility, and it's good that GW seem to be finally realising that and looking for other ways to expand their brand.
I couldn't disagree more. GW games needs a thriving local community in order to attract and retain new customer. This is not a t-shirt company where you can simply order one online and don't care about the physical store.
As much as Kirby was an incompetent, and how frustrating it was for most of us, curtailling the online store was a great move. Sure it was profitable in the short term, but it was killing the company slowly
Gaming in the US is very different. The retail stores had very little to do with spreading WH here. However, Dawn of War, an expansion of the brand, brought plenty of new players to the game.
Really?
I always heard that it was the stores that were essential in making the game thrives in the US , but that in Europe, it was gaming clubs.
At least, this is the case in Montreal, and I would assume that it is the same in most big NA cities.
But I agree that video games are the way to go if they want to expand the brand (and by that, I mean AAA production, not sling the snotling games). Always thought it was mindboggling that they scrapped WHFB pretty much at the same time as they released the TW:W game. Such a missed opportunity imo
Independent stores are more important than GW stores for supporting gaming communities in the US. That may be what you have heard. However, gaming at home is far more prevalent.
And don't forget the power of online communities. I remember when 40k fandom started out on boards like Stardestroyer.net and Space Battles. There were some fans talking about 40k, which lead to curiosity, which lead to new fans talking about 40k. The Black Library books were the crucial to spreading WH40k, because that's where people with whetted appetites went to learn more. By the time the Horus Heresy dropped, most of the board members were familiar with the setting and there were huge threads dedicated to analyzing the texts and speculation on all the unknowns in the background. And, eventually, there were people who never would have stepped into a game store posting pictures of their first space marines.
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highlord tamburlaine wrote: I love me some CYOA type books. Especially those with fighting and dice rolling involved.
I need more info on these GW styled Fighting Fantasy books.
I picked up one of the Destiny Quest books which feels like a Diablo/ MMORPG take on the genre. I'll have to pawn it off on BobtheInquisitor one of these days (who's Dungeon Saga book I've still got).
I've had a lot of success with Choose Your Own Adventure books getting reluctant readers to get more involved in the process. Anything that gives kids more agency in their education and personal improvement is a thumbs up in my classroom.
I'll bring Hive of the Dead next time we game. The names of the other two escape me for the moment, but one was 40k and the other WHF.
Independent stores are more important than GW stores for supporting gaming communities in the US. That may be what you have heard. However, gaming at home is far more prevalent.
This is pretty much accurate. Most GW's are uncomfortably small. I've also been told that GW doesn't want you to buy stuff and play at the GW. They want you to buy stuff and go to your FLGS where people playing other games will see it and want to get in on it.
Also most GW stores in the US have customer service tactics somewhere along the lines of "Whatever he's doing or looking at, just shove everything you can at the customer, pile stuff on him, and put a few paint pots in his ass-pipe, and don't stop until he runs out the store or maxes out his credit card."
But I agree that video games are the way to go if they want to expand the brand (and by that, I mean AAA production, not sling the snotling games). Always thought it was mindboggling that they scrapped WHFB pretty much at the same time as they released the TW:W game. Such a missed opportunity imo
I would say the only reason we got TW:W was becauseWHFB was being scrapped. Personally the dream for it was always there since the first time I launched Shogun 1 far too many years ago now (!) but I could see that the corporate fear was (is?) that a very comprehensive version of any of their games could lead to a lot of players going for infinite online multiplayer for their gaming fix, rather than actually buying the models. Hence why most of the video games have been rather cut down at the very least in terms of unit roster, if nothing else.
Independent stores are more important than GW stores for supporting gaming communities in the US. That may be what you have heard. However, gaming at home is far more prevalent.
This is pretty much accurate. Most GW's are uncomfortably small. I've also been told that GW doesn't want you to buy stuff and play at the GW. They want you to buy stuff and go to your FLGS where people playing other games will see it and want to get in on it.
Also most GW stores in the US have customer service tactics somewhere along the lines of "Whatever he's doing or looking at, just shove everything you can at the customer, pile stuff on him, and put a few paint pots in his ass-pipe, and don't stop until he runs out the store or maxes out his credit card."
Pretty sure they just want you to buy it and play it wherever you Damned well please....
Grot 6 wrote: A small hero quest like game would work for something like this./ 20.00 sets with a few kid mini's and some basic enemy models, like a squad of orks or a 'nid, or something....
Pretty sure this is what "Space Marine Adventures: Labyrinth of the Necrons" is going to be.
I now suspect this game will be aimed at the Warhammer Adventures market - which is a new 8-12yo demographic.
Grot 6 wrote: A small hero quest like game would work for something like this./ 20.00 sets with a few kid mini's and some basic enemy models, like a squad of orks or a 'nid, or something....
Pretty sure this is what "Space Marine Adventures: Labyrinth of the Necrons" is going to be.
I now suspect this game will be aimed at the Warhammer Adventures market - which is a new 8-12yo demographic.
Exactly. I pointed out when we first saw the box that it has a different age rating. GW stuff is usually rated 12+ but space marine adventures is 8+.
I doubt it is a coincidence that both products feature Necrons.
Necrons being the bad guys kind of make sense now that I think about it, if they make any Humans die in it it's just a green flash and they are gone, and nobody really cares about robots being broken.
Kind of like in Star Trek, where whenever someone is shot with a gun (and killed) they just get vaporized, no bodies. TOS/TNG, at least, I know DS9 and VOY went right off into darkness.
Enigma of the Absolute wrote: Looks awful and is the kind of thing that would have turned me away as an 8-10 year old. That might just be me though.
No, if all this had been around when I was that age I would have gone straight for the adult-oriented books. I hated the books I supposed to read at school when I was 8-9, they were so childish! I remember protesting this at school one day, and my teacher asked me what I was reading. I pulled out Asimov's Foundation Trilogy that I'd found at home; she saw my point.
Knight wrote: Out of curiosity what was the first Warhammer literature you've read and how old were you? What sort of an impact did it have on you?
Merely curious as I expect that these stories will have light hearth approach, sharing and flirting with only certain themes of the "adult" franchises. I do think it's possible to write a book in such setting but in our eyes this isn't going to be "our warhammer".
A bit late, sorry, but my first encounter with the Warhammer settings was in White Dwarf articles when I was 11 - first background articles and the like, and then Barrington J Bayley's The Magician's Son short story. A couple of years later I read Ian Watson's Inquisitor - pretty heavy going (but not as heavy as The Two Towers, which I bounced off in primary school) for a pre-teen, but it doesn't seem to have done me any harm.
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CthuluIsSpy wrote: It would be hilarious if this whole thing was a massive attempt at trolling by GW, and in the first volume some really screwed up stuff happens to the main characters.
Sort of like what Urobutcher did with Madoka Magika
"You thought it was going to be a cutesy magical girl anime, but it was actually nightmare fuel!"
I don't think they would have the nerve to try that though.
Does anyone else think it's funny to deliberately inflict (mental) harm on large numbers of children? Or is it just the one poster?
Automatically Appended Next Post: On the subject of "how will they handle all the horrible things in a kid's book?", well, the real world is full of plenty of things we want to keep away from children, but there's never been any particular difficulty in writing children's literature.
Slaanesh? Well, this might be a way to get past the sad idea that "Slaanesh = sex god(dess)". there's plenty of other obsessive and selfish behaviours that can be addressed in children's fiction. Gluttony, an obsession with TV/video games/whatever, excessive self-centredness and bullying, I'm sure there's more.
Enigma of the Absolute wrote: Looks awful and is the kind of thing that would have turned me away as an 8-10 year old. That might just be me though.
No, if all this had been around when I was that age I would have gone straight for the adult-oriented books. I hated the books I supposed to read at school when I was 8-9, they were so childish! I remember protesting this at school one day, and my teacher asked me what I was reading. I pulled out Asimov's Foundation Trilogy that I'd found at home; she saw my point.
With 8 years I was playing with Playmobil and reading Mortadelo y Filemón comics... so yeah, people shouldn't generalise what kids like or don't like
Enigma of the Absolute wrote: Looks awful and is the kind of thing that would have turned me away as an 8-10 year old. That might just be me though.
No, if all this had been around when I was that age I would have gone straight for the adult-oriented books. I hated the books I supposed to read at school when I was 8-9, they were so childish! I remember protesting this at school one day, and my teacher asked me what I was reading. I pulled out Asimov's Foundation Trilogy that I'd found at home; she saw my point.
With 8 years I was playing with Playmobil and reading Mortadelo y Filemón comics... so yeah, people shouldn't generalise what kids like or don't like
Now I have the cartoon's song lodged inside my skull. Thankyouverymuch.
Knight wrote: Out of curiosity what was the first Warhammer literature you've read and how old were you? What sort of an impact did it have on you?
Either Ian Watson's Space Marine or Inquisitor. I was... 10? 11? Can't remember.
I thought some of it was cool.
Space Marine came later. It was mostly cool, although I missed most of the overtones. Ian Watson's 40k writing is all about the themes and imagery, and all I was really picking up on was the plot.
Space Marine came later. It was mostly cool, although I missed most of the overtones. Ian Watson's 40k writing is all about the themes and imagery, and all I was really picking up on was the plot.
I read Ian Watson's books for the first time when I was about 18, and I couldn't figure out what was going on for a large chunk of it.
Around 8-12, I was wearing out my copies of Star Wars and Empire Strike Back, and reading James Blish's Star Trek novelisations, the Target Doctor Who novelisations, Conan the Barbarian, Edgar Rice Burroughs, CYOA and Fighting Fantasy, and pretty much any other fantasy or scifi I could get my hands on. I would certainly have checked these out, had they been available.
When I was 8-12 i was playing the heck out of Star/warcraft, reading Lord of the Rings, just starting Diablo 2, and watching Phantom Menace, then promptly watching the original trilogy again to wash my young mind clean.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: It would be hilarious if this whole thing was a massive attempt at trolling by GW, and in the first volume some really screwed up stuff happens to the main characters. Sort of like what Urobutcher did with Madoka Magika "You thought it was going to be a cutesy magical girl anime, but it was actually nightmare fuel!"
I don't think they would have the nerve to try that though.
Does anyone else think it's funny to deliberately inflict (mental) harm on large numbers of children? Or is it just the one poster?
Yes, its called dark humor
On a more serious note, however, I think we aren't giving children enough credit in handling dark subject or disturbing subject matter. Did Courage the Cowardly dog inflict mental harm? Or did Bambi, the Lion King, and the Hunchback of Notre Dame, specifically the Hell Fire sequence? What about works by the Brother's Grimm or Hans Christian Anderson? As I said before, what I'm worried about most is that GW will write these stories in a condescendingly sanitized fashion and strip most of the grit away from the settings, when they can probably get away with a lot of the more exciting parts of chaos mutation.
Of course they'll tone things down - they're children's books. However, I don't believe that this means everything will be toned down. Especially since people have been moaning about that since 1993, and as far as I can see have been wrong for 25 years.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: Actually I'm gonna be kinda pissed off if we get a Co-Op 'Silver Tower' type game set in the 40k Universe for this kid thing before we get one for the actual game setting...
40k is a setting as a setting there’s room for lots of different story’s,
See caiaphas cain, a book with inquisitors the arbiter trilogy for example war is the backdrop not the only thing. (Contray to the blurb I know but there’s already a precedent set in the books mentioned above)
While my gut says this will be poor I’ll reserve judgment until it’s out because an ok writer will be able to write a story set in 40k and sidestep some of the non child safe bits.
I’ve heard a bunch of really amazing gak about the new Warhammer 40k stuff; the last time I played my Necrons, games still took six hours. From friends, it sounds like it’s hitting that ribald, skirmish scale that attracted me to Warmahordes and Infinity. And let me be clear: I feel like that was six hours well spent. I just don’t have time like that all in a row these days. I’m willing to put up with a lot of horsegak when it comes to my tiny men, and I didn’t mind how it comported itself mechanically. I was into it.
But it was the fluff that got me in the door.
A comic strip people claim to have enjoyed - claimed - called “I Hope You Like Text” is actually a strip about my affection for Game Workshop’s whole dealio. I only know a thing or two about Warhammer Fantasy, whatever I was able to pick up from Warhammer: Age of Reckoning or Vermintide I guess, but 40k is so lore dense that it’s a dangerous thing to dig into into when it’s late. You want to plan how many hours you give over to this thing, and when, because this gak is good. The time is going to be spent either way. It’s really a matter of when you want to get to bed. Not three? Okay Surrender yourself to it no later than ten.
GW is in kind of a renaissance right now, or in any case this is what people who like Warhammer keep telling me. When I heard that they were investing some of this newfound energy into a line of YA novels, it’s like… that’s weird? But I’m not mad at it…? I think this is probably going to be a hell of a challenge, but the more I think of it their world-building casts a long shadow, and there’s plenty of room for a child to hide there.
Fifteen pages in, with lots of gruesome children's literature and TV shows brought up as precedents, and nobody's mentioned the Animorphs books. Easy-read 90s preteen Goosebumps-style books full of wisecracks and gross-out humour... about child soldiers.
Other honourable mentions from my own childhood that spring to mind:
-Isobelle Carmody's Obernewtyn Chronicles (Aussie books set in a post-apocalyptic world of medieval mutant burnings)
-Doctor Who ('the children's show that adults adore')
-80s Astro Boy (which routinely featured character deaths both human and robot, and which I was watching at age five)
-Disney's Gargoyles (YouTube link) - something at about this level would seem appropriate for the GW books
-Beast Wars Transformers (YouTube) - OK, so they're robots and can fix themselves, but that guy in the cockpit ain't coming back
...sorry, that drifted off into a nostalgia-fest there.
Anyway, I like the general idea and am interested to see how the books turn out.
As many other posters have noted, there's precedent for sanitised versions of the setting that act as gateways into the hobby for kids. See: HeroQuest and Space Crusade back in the day. It's something that has been lacking for many years, actually.
I had an Usborne picture book of Ulysses with cartoon illustrations, intended for preteens. Most of the violent escapades on the various weirdo islands were kept--just toned down to remove the graphic gore. (e.g. when the Cyclops eats Ulysses's men he just swallows them instead of tearing them apart first.) The risque bits with Circe and Calypso were either left out or just hinted at with a bit of flirting and smooching. Worked fine, and encouraged me to seek out the proper translations of the Odyssey when I was older.
And the funny thing is that the WFB and 40K settings themselves have long been sanitised to a certain extent. Certainly since the early 90s. When the Dark Eldar got their big revamp in 5th ed 40K, Jes Goodwin or Phil Kelly (can't remember which) pointed out that they never actually describe the horrible tortures in any detail. Likewise, a lot of the sex stuff is only obliquely mentioned or left up to the imagination (unless you're Ian Watson). And there's hardly any swearing, except for made-up words. It's just the gory violence they don't skimp on. And they've gone back and forth on this too. The fluff bits in WFB 4th and 5th edition were generally less bloody than in 6th, for example.
Like others, my main concern regarding these books is that GW will try too hard to avoid the fighty, chop-their-heads-off bits--which kids tend to love--for fear of parental aggro, and end up in Captain Planet land. (Although that could be kinda funny. 'Khorne!' 'Slaanesh!' 'Tzeentch!' 'Nurgle!' 'Heart!') The D&D cartoon suffered from this. 'Hey guy with magical arrows, could you shoot that rope to drop that cage onto that charging orc before it kills us all?' 'Why can't I just shoot the orc?' 'Er...' But if Star Wars can get away with zapping people dead, I'm sure these books can too.
Re: Gav Thorpe's comment about Slaanesh: I think it was JK Rowling who said that when writing for children you just take the sex out and include mouth-watering descriptions of food instead.
Zenithfleet wrote: When the Dark Eldar got their big revamp in 5th ed 40K, Jes Goodwin or Phil Kelly (can't remember which) pointed out that they never actually describe the horrible tortures in any detail. Likewise, a lot of the sex stuff is only obliquely mentioned or left up to the imagination (unless you're Ian Watson).
Zenithfleet wrote: Likewise, a lot of the sex stuff is only obliquely mentioned or left up to the imagination (unless you're Ian Watson)
What a legend! The only writer to get the bolter firing right, and even his buildings had sex (OK, it was a Chaos world, and Slaanesh to boot). Oh, and don't forget the farting Scouts...
I'd like it to go the other way and see a proper film of W40K done, with live action and CGI. OF course, it would have to be an 18 certificate/R rated, because of all the blood, guts and amputations.
farmersboy wrote: I'd like it to go the other way and see a proper film of W40K done, with live action and CGI. OF course, it would have to be an 18 certificate/R rated, because of all the blood, guts and amputations.
Well, we already have a 40k movie, and it's GLORIOUS!
Approximately a hundred time better than the junk marvel is churning out.
Also very very faithful to the lore.
Here is a sample, showing how a simple squad of Ultramarines scouts-in-power-armor can easily defeat twice their number in Black Legion weakling marines without taking a single casualty :
I'd like it to go the other way and see a proper film of W40K done, with live action and CGI. OF course, it would have to be an 18 certificate/R rated, because of all the blood, guts and amputations.
It would probably go as well as the Warzone movie that was done several years back.
Of course if people a worried about kids books being too sanitized, here is something from my day marketed to young children:
farmersboy wrote: I'd like it to go the other way and see a proper film of W40K done, with live action and CGI. OF course, it would have to be an 18 certificate/R rated, because of all the blood, guts and amputations.
Well, we already have a 40k movie, and it's GLORIOUS!
Approximately a hundred time better than the junk marvel is churning out.
Also very very faithful to the lore.
Here is a sample, showing how a simple squad of Ultramarines scouts-in-power-armor can easily defeat twice their number in Black Legion weakling marines without taking a single casualty :
No, I mean a real film, not some shoddy CGI effort.
farmersboy wrote: I'd like it to go the other way and see a proper film of W40K done, with live action and CGI. OF course, it would have to be an 18 certificate/R rated, because of all the blood, guts and amputations.
I feel like it would be quite doable to have a film focused more on the human like elements such as Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle, Inquisition, Rogue Traders, Chaos cultists, Genestealer cults, and/or possibly some of the more human looking xenos like Eldar or Tau. Space Marines, Orks, Necrons, Nids, etc would really require a massive CGI budget to do right and unless its in the hands of a masterful movie director you would probably end up with another Star Wars prequel like failure where the visuals and acting don't match up due to the actors mostly interacting with a green screen. The issue is GW would absolutely want Space Marines (Especially their poster boys the Ultramarines) front and center to everything which would be a nightmare to produce to any decent quality without a massive budget (way too high risk for such a niche IP).
You know what would be a good movie adaptation? Ciaphas Cain. It's a popular novel series set in the Wh40k universe where most of the cast are ordinary humans. Seldom a marine in sight. In the first novel his regiment fought Genestealer cults, which could easily be portrayed with prosthetics, and if you could show terminator on film with no CGI, then you can show necrons without CGI too, as they are basically T-800s. No heavy use of CGI or make up required.
You do realise that there’s never going to be a big budget 40k movie unless some film studio decides to buy Games Workshop? GW will never sell film rights for their IP because no studio is going to buy them without also getting rights to merchandise. Selling 40k merchandise is GW’s core business.
It's probably a separate canon for kids which is probably a good thing. I wouldn't want my kids to read alot of the stuff in the mainstream 40k lore until they are like 12 at least maybe older...
Reading through the character bios on the site, this may be the least 40k thing in 40k of all times. Tech preists inventing. Non-violence in humans and hatred of weaponry. Brace yourselves, folks.
Grot 6 wrote: A small hero quest like game would work for something like this./ 20.00 sets with a few kid mini's and some basic enemy models, like a squad of orks or a 'nid, or something....
Pretty sure this is what "Space Marine Adventures: Labyrinth of the Necrons" is going to be.
I now suspect this game will be aimed at the Warhammer Adventures market - which is a new 8-12yo demographic.
It's also what the Execution Force game was to an extent.
BaronIveagh wrote: Reading through the character bios on the site, this may be the least 40k thing in 40k of all times. Tech preists inventing. Non-violence in humans and hatred of weaponry. Brace yourselves, folks.
So an ideal YA book then?
A group of young people brought together by their status as outsiders learning to come to terms with who they are and what they represent against a backdrop of an unfeeling society that would destroy them just for expressing who they are.
BaronIveagh wrote: Reading through the character bios on the site, this may be the least 40k thing in 40k of all times. Tech preists inventing. Non-violence in humans and hatred of weaponry. Brace yourselves, folks.
So an ideal YA book then?
A group of young people brought together by their status as outsiders learning to come to terms with who they are and what they represent against a backdrop of an unfeeling society that would destroy them just for expressing who they are.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Brace myself to not read a book I’ve no real interest in, beyond procuring copies of each so I can give them to my God-Daughter when she’s old enough?
Brace yourself for them trying to add it to canon at some point.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Brace myself to not read a book I’ve no real interest in, beyond procuring copies of each so I can give them to my God-Daughter when she’s old enough?
Brace yourself for them trying to add it to canon at some point.
And why do younger kids like 40k...?
Because it was meant for an older age group and has taboo things for the younger ages.
Remove those and you remove the appeal.
9-10 year olds will like fiction designed for 11-13 year olds.
The minute you market something for 9-10 year olds, those 9-10 year olds are already 'too old' for it.
Grot 6 wrote: A small hero quest like game would work for something like this./ 20.00 sets with a few kid mini's and some basic enemy models, like a squad of orks or a 'nid, or something....
Pretty sure this is what "Space Marine Adventures: Labyrinth of the Necrons" is going to be.
I now suspect this game will be aimed at the Warhammer Adventures market - which is a new 8-12yo demographic.
It's also what the Execution Force game was to an extent.
We've already had a few Warhammer and 40K stories with teenage protagonists. The whole Warhammer RPG "Blood on the Ariel" eries. The short story about the Doom Eagles aspirants, the sister and brother running away from the Flayers. "Necromancer". A lot of Necromunda material.
Gimgamgoo wrote: And why do younger kids like 40k...?
Because it was meant for an older age group and has taboo things for the younger ages.
Remove those and you remove the appeal.
9-10 year olds will like fiction designed for 11-13 year olds.
The minute you market something for 9-10 year olds, those 9-10 year olds are already 'too old' for it.
I think you're pigeonholing younger kids. Many of them probably like 40k for the same reasons most gamers do, with the prospect of age-inappropriate material adding some spice. Not every kid is super obsessed with acting older in all respects. I certainly don't remember a whole generation growing too mature for video games, you know, those things aimed at children.
If the books are good, kids will read them. If they are bland, patronizing or oversanitized, kids won't read them. 40k survived Goto, Ward and 7th edition; it will survive this.
They look incredibly stupid to me and almost give me the impression that GW is getting desperate for new customers. I imagine a lot of dumb parents are going to be surprised when their kid gets into the hobby because of these books and then is forced to buy a codex depicting graphic violence.
Gimgamgoo wrote: And why do younger kids like 40k...?
Because it was meant for an older age group and has taboo things for the younger ages.
Remove those and you remove the appeal.
9-10 year olds will like fiction designed for 11-13 year olds.
The minute you market something for 9-10 year olds, those 9-10 year olds are already 'too old' for it.
Some kids do. Plus, those 9-10 year old books will appeal to 7-8 year olds who are a bit more advanced.
I want to read the 40k book. I bet it has better Necron lore than we've seen in the past ten years.
Would be funny to get the kids as models, too. I'd make the girl with the great fashion sense my Guard general in a heartbeat. She can even stay a pacifist because she's not going to get a good gun anyway.
Skaorn wrote: I think You underestimate how many people got into the game ultimately through their parents finances.
I thought that's how we all got involved?
I mean considering that in the society we live in where your family has disposable income, most kids are not in proper "work" until around 16 at the very earliest (barring a few niche areas like farmers)
I like how that kid already has cybernetic implants. He's going to have fun getting those changed out every 6 months at BEST as he grows. Or perhaps he'll be stunted due to the poor diet you'd find on your average imperial world?
Skaorn wrote: I think You underestimate how many people got into the game ultimately through their parents finances.
I thought that's how we all got involved?
Nah, my parents looked at the price tag and said feth it; I can remember jealously looking at my friend Nate's Warhammer starting box in my early teens. I had to wait until college to get my first box paying for it myself, and then realized that adulthood came with a set of financial burdens I hadn't mentally prepared for. Then, around 30 or so, with a good job and a stable life, I threw down some cash to get started. So, it's strange seeing people complain about the prices. I understand the root of the complaint, but good things come to those who wait I guess.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: And as a former GW Till Monkey, you’d be surprised at the money parents are willing to throw at something that’s not ‘another bloody computer game’
A lot of parents are okay with getting their kids into something that isn't going to have them driving all over town three times a week. Karate, soccer, baseball, gymnastics, Boy Scouts, etc. can really take it out of you and end up costing a fortune in gas and kill all free time a parent has. Something as simple as expensive plastic models and some paint to keep a kid occupied is a better and more affordable option.
Marmatag wrote: I like how that kid already has cybernetic implants. He's going to have fun getting those changed out every 6 months at BEST as he grows. Or perhaps he'll be stunted due to the poor diet you'd find on your average imperial world?
If we didn't think you could learn, we wouldn't have given you them. There's always a demand for corpsestarch, and the most creative minds most often need...encouragement, to grow. The eight year old inducted into the Cult Mechanicus should have no fear of finding themselves outgrowing their limbs. Let those who recognised your potential worry about that...
Slaanesh is easy for this, they're the god of submission and control - surrendering to your own appetites or another's will. This is the world that children live in, all the time - controlling your impulses and recognising the limits of your desires against the desires of others is the whole point of childhood in some ways. It's the most perfect big bad - a child of eight(!) knows that Khorne is wrong, even if the temptation to give into that anger and rage is hard to resist. Tzeentch, the Lord of Misrule is also easy to see - the lure of revolution and masters becoming slaves and slaves becoming masters, and the consequences there of is throughout children's literature along with the Devil's Bargain (Prince and the Pauper, Brave, the Littoral Mermaid etc).
Nurgle is the harder one, but at least has the fallback of disease and decay - they work as an antagonist as they are immediately repulsive, without needing to make younger children aware of the concept of despair. That's the one you tread lightly around and could have serious social consequences. Artax in the Neverending Story being the obvious bit of nightmare fuel.
Are you 8-12? If not, your expectations like mine matter not.
I’ve read both, and was pleasantly surprised. I think the AoS was more immediately gripping though. Lots of ‘just off screen’ horrendous, but entirely implied violence, for those familiar with how well it tends to go when Barbarians in loincloths try to chin a Stormcast.
In terms of the ‘grimdark’, there’s nothing there I’d worry about reading my three year old God-Smol. Her Mam might beg to differ.
Yet, whilst (obviously, seriously, what were you expecting!) not a patch on the main line Black Library, they’re actually pretty good. Certainly I can see 12 year old me enjoying them.
Or perhaps that's just what they chose - if anything its more faithful since the Emperor never said he was a god. His title varies lots depending on who one talks to. To some he's a god, to say that he's the Eternal Emperor is also true.
Given that the AoS book refers to Sigmar as just "the King Sigmar", I think there is a conscious effort to avoid mentioning the word god. I imagine it's just to avoid awkward questions - the idea of god as a character in a story (even if SIgmar and the Emperor aren't technically the God, whatever that means) might be a bit advanced.
They also replace 'Chaos' with 'Evil', though the reasons for that are less clear. Maybe to avoid the general grey/black morality in the settings? By just equating Chaos to Bad Guys, it makes the sides a bit less ambiguous.
Anyway, I read the AoS story and actually thought it was pretty good. It elided anything overtly graphic without losing any of the actual story, and the style and complexity seemed pretty well-pitched to me.
Thommy H wrote: Given that the AoS book refers to Sigmar as just "the King Sigmar", I think there is a conscious effort to avoid mentioning the word god. I imagine it's just to avoid awkward questions - the idea of god as a character in a story (even if SIgmar and the Emperor aren't technically the God, whatever that means) might be a bit advanced.
They also replace 'Chaos' with 'Evil', though the reasons for that are less clear. Maybe to avoid the general grey/black morality in the settings? By just equating Chaos to Bad Guys, it makes the sides a bit less ambiguous.
Anyway, I read the AoS story and actually thought it was pretty good. It elided anything overtly graphic without losing any of the actual story, and the style and complexity seemed pretty well-pitched to me.
Warhammer has many grey areas. Chaos has never been one of those. They are the bad guys. Outright evil. No redeming qualities.
Chaos is a mere reflection of mortal desires and emotions.
Khorne is fury and bloodlust, but also martial prowess and honour.
Tzeentch is deception and ambition, but also hope and change.
Nurgle is disease and entropy, but also regrowth and nurturing.
Slaanesh is excess and depravity, but also beauty and artistry.
They're not good guys, but they're more like fundamental forces than villains. There's definitely some ambiguity in there.
If its from these children perspective then evil makes sense.
considering the imperium doesn't want anyone to know what chaos is. so calling it base evil and people that do evil things heretics is just a result of their upbringing/indoctrination.
Skaorn wrote: I think You underestimate how many people got into the game ultimately through their parents finances.
I thought that's how we all got involved?
I mean considering that in the society we live in where your family has disposable income, most kids are not in proper "work" until around 16 at the very earliest (barring a few niche areas like farmers)
Yeah being in a farmer family doesn't help much. Parents will make you work, unless your sick or somehow favorite, but they won't pay you. Or the "pay" will be in form of work cloths etc.
the idea of god as a character in a story (even if SIgmar and the Emperor aren't technically the God, whatever that means) might be a bit advanced.
I don't think it is the advance part, it is more like the parents of some people may not like the word being used. And if they don't like it the chance the kid is going to get more GW stuff is close to zero.
Are you 8-12? If not, your expectations like mine matter not.
I am not 12, but not that far away from that age. The AoS story seemed stupid, there is no way a girl with a sling shot could knock out or kill a grown man, even at point blank range. And I know it because me and my brothers did shot at each other with self made ones using rocks and old ball-barrings, and not one of us died, and we get our far share of head shots. And we are all way stronger then any unfed girl of our age could be.
Anyone who has played any Age of Empires game can attest to the use of slings as killing weapons in those games and in many others. Plus there is the famous "David and Goliath" story.
So the idea of a sling being a weapon of war is very real. Now my short bit googling hasn't told me if you can outright kill a person at point blank range with one (wouldn't shock me if you could); and it would seem that they might be more a weapon of mass numbers - lots of shots raining down a beating of stones against lightly clothed peoples.
However it might be that the right stone shape, the right sling type and the correct use could kill a person or at least cause significant injury. Also don't underestimate skill and luck; strength alone can be only a minor element next to actual weapon skill or chance. So your own examples might have lacked actual skill in using the weapon, might have had errors in the design of the sling and might even have just been lucky or unlucky.
Even if its not true there's enough casual awareness of a sling being a weapon that it will fit into most fantasy and war stories.
I got into trouble reading Gotrek and Felix under the desk in English lessons in Year 8 and I'd got into the hobby four years previously. I'd tried Roald Dahl because my sister liked the books and I tired those Far Away Tree novels too which my Mum's friend recommended because her kid loved them. I thought those books were boring as hell.
The extracts seems alright to me, I don't really see how people could have a problem with them.
Thommy H wrote: Chaos is a mere reflection of mortal desires and emotions.
Khorne is fury and bloodlust, but also martial prowess and honour.
Tzeentch is deception and ambition, but also hope and change.
Nurgle is disease and entropy, but also regrowth and nurturing.
Slaanesh is excess and depravity, but also beauty and artistry.
They're not good guys, but they're more like fundamental forces than villains. There's definitely some ambiguity in there.
No. Chaos is the corruption, the darkest extreme of those values you are saying are also part of chaos. The noble martial knight that ends up enjoying too much battle and ends as a bloodthirsty killer, for example.
Also... LOL about slings not being letal. A profesional slinger could kill or at least knock unconscious a soldier with an helmet. A girl that knows how to use one could absolutely kill a grown adult with a hit on the head.
Don't you know about Balear slingers? They where used as mercs by the romans.
streetsamurai wrote: Pretty much irrationnal, since it doesn't really affect me, but god do I hope this whole venture bombs badly
Why? If we want the hobby to grow then we need new blood to make it viable. To do this then predominantly recruiting younger gamers makes sense before they commit to other hobbies. With the amazing quality of video games, the draw of social media and a host of other factors there has never been more competition for the time and attention of young people. I think anything that draws in new hobbyists at a younger age can only be a good thing. It’s either that or we allow our past time to wither on the vine.
streetsamurai wrote: Pretty much irrationnal, since it doesn't really affect me, but god do I hope this whole venture bombs badly
Why? If we want the hobby to grow then we need new blood to make it viable. To do this then predominantly recruiting younger gamers makes sense before they commit to other hobbies. With the amazing quality of video games, the draw of social media and a host of other factors there has never been more competition for the time and attention of young people. I think anything that draws in new hobbyists at a younger age can only be a good thing. It’s either that or we allow our past time to wither on the vine.
Agreed - we need new and young people to be interested in the hobby and I for one also hope they will be interested in the stories behind the game. One of the things that GW has always done in my time has been a gateway into the hobby by providing the stores to draw in the younger generation and a place where parents are happy to drop them off to! Whereas games clubs can be intimidating places for someone younger.
Its a much better attempt at attracting younger generations than most I have seen in the past, we need new blood or eventually the hobby will die with us and this combined with the conquest magazines is going the right way about it I think.
Even though its only a small sample there is a very clear and very big spike in recruitement in the 8-13 bracket. That's exactly the market GW are targeting here with these books and its proven that its a very key time for many to get into this kind of hobby. It's the prime market and target for recruitment and is very much what GW should be targeting for getting new blood into the hobby.
It's the death of any hobby or club when the focus from groups and companies becomes existing customers and not new blood As Well. Otherwise you're just riding your old fans until they get bored/old/run out of money/gain families etc... Which means that you can very quickly go form ruling the roost to nothing when two or three of your biggest generations fall out.
I actually really like the idea behind these books and honestly don't understand why anybody would be negative, but hey ho.
One of the biggest appeals I think regarding "the hobby" TM is that it is a social hobby, encourages creativity, requires basic maths and encourages reading.
It is competing in a world where most kids from the age of 3 onwards are stuck to a mobile device and isn't doing too badly.
I think parents see it as a positive as it takes their kids away from games consoles and gets their brains working in a different way.
And anything that encourages kids to read an actual book can't be a bad thing surely?
I don't have kids but if I did I'd be over the moon if they picked one of these books up.
And if this gets the worlds of Warhammer into the mainstream that can only be a good thing down the line.
I do wonder at that poll and the age of respondents. Talking about myself here, but what got me in age 11 was Space Crusade and Heroquest.
As examples, here are two (dated) adverts, the Heroquest one complete with Christopher Lee voiceover:
This is what got me started. They had an "adult" gritty feel to them that appealed to 11 year old me. I wasn't drawn in by a shonky comic! This is what GW should doing - a product for 8-10 year olds that can go in Tesco's and that will act as a hook for future games.
Even though its only a small sample there is a very clear and very big spike in recruitement in the 8-13 bracket. That's exactly the market GW are targeting here with these books and its proven that its a very key time for many to get into this kind of hobby. It's the prime market and target for recruitment and is very much what GW should be targeting for getting new blood into the hobby.
It's the death of any hobby or club when the focus from groups and companies becomes existing customers and not new blood As Well. Otherwise you're just riding your old fans until they get bored/old/run out of money/gain families etc... Which means that you can very quickly go form ruling the roost to nothing when two or three of your biggest generations fall out.
but my question as before is, do those 8-13 year old kids get into the game by reading about a girl fighting some bullies while servo critters fly around or do they get into the setting by reading about 8 foot tall armored space marines bedecked in skulls followed by the skulls of humans made into servitors decapitating aliens
the teenage edge is part of the appeal of warhammer, especially for kids, taking it out leaves you with a generic scifi mush that they can get anywhere else
I don't see the point in loosing the identity of WH in order to appeal to an age group that got into WH perfectly fine without it having to be watered down
Even though its only a small sample there is a very clear and very big spike in recruitement in the 8-13 bracket. That's exactly the market GW are targeting here with these books and its proven that its a very key time for many to get into this kind of hobby. It's the prime market and target for recruitment and is very much what GW should be targeting for getting new blood into the hobby.
It's the death of any hobby or club when the focus from groups and companies becomes existing customers and not new blood As Well. Otherwise you're just riding your old fans until they get bored/old/run out of money/gain families etc... Which means that you can very quickly go form ruling the roost to nothing when two or three of your biggest generations fall out.
but my question as before is, do those 8-13 year old kids get into the game by reading about a girl fighting some bullies while servo critters fly around or do they get into the setting by reading about 8 foot tall armored space marines bedecked in skulls followed by the skulls of humans made into servitors decapitating aliens
the teenage edge is part of the appeal of warhammer, especially for kids, taking it out leaves you with a generic scifi mush that they can get anywhere else
I don't see the point in loosing the identity of WH in order to appeal to an age group that got into WH perfectly fine without it having to be watered down
Thing is its not that watered down at all, its just age relevant and quite in keeping with the level of interpretation of the game that most kids have. Also yes you are right in the past kids got into it just fine, we also had hero-quest and space crusade and loads of other entry points all age relevant. Furthermore its bad practice to just sit back and wait. Pushes like these new books are a way to release and target markets specifically for expansion of the membership. Doing that is critical if GW wants to ensure that they gain a healthy big expanding population of fans, rather than sort of waiting and hoping for them to get into the game on their own.
I know when I went through school it was in a sort of bubblegap whereby Warhammer was a thing the older kids had done, but which hadn't got a big grip in my generation. Sure some of is tried it out, but it wasn't a big wave of enthusiasm. These gaps are natural and its good that GW is reaching out to ensure that they are patching over them with products like this.
Remember this is only the start of their interaction; the next might be buying some big armoured dudes who can shoot at some big macho wacky orks whilst someone dances around with clown faced mysterious aliens and another person has the face eating Tyranids.The growth into the whole "its super grim dark evil nasty twisted" stuff doesn't happen to all and honestly its not even a vast part of the actual game itself; that's a lore side of things that only some reach into in a big way. For others its just background fluff that gives flavour to the armies they play.
Mr Morden wrote: Lets face it these stories are pretty adult gritty compared to the current Space Wolf fluff.
The burn. But it is actually true.
"Here comes Roboute saving everyone in the GALAXY OH YEAH HUMANITY!" vs "Here you have a girl born in a slave camp that must kill his captors to survive and have a chance of being free"
Sounds ludicrous when you look at them now but 11 year old me thought so. I do remember a specific "wow that looks so grown up" feeling when seeing those
I’d get some of these for down the line for my son, price is probably too much to get a load.
But if they went cheap in the Works id grab a load for him.
Are you 8-12? If not, your expectations like mine matter not.
I am not 12, but not that far away from that age. The AoS story seemed stupid, there is no way a girl with a sling shot could knock out or kill a grown man, even at point blank range. And I know it because me and my brothers did shot at each other with self made ones using rocks and old ball-barrings, and not one of us died, and we get our far share of head shots. And we are all way stronger then any unfed girl of our age could be.
As part of Irish History Renactment we'd load slings with both traditional (pre-christian) stone and metal bullets (as in a round metal ball) and shoot them at stuff. Using a proper sling (not one of those Y-armed toys Americans use) you can dent armor, crack bone, and put a hole in the side of a house. The range is pretty good too, but the accuracy is hellishly difficult. Release a split second early or too late and the shot goes feet from where you intended.
Slings were famously used as skirmish weapons for centuries from the Indian Subcontinent all the way to North Europe. It may be hard to nail one guy with a single bullet, but if they are all standing in a line and there's 20 of you, you can start breaking bones and penetrating skulls. Just make certain to run when they get into Dart range.
but my question as before is, do those 8-13 year old kids get into the game by reading about a girl fighting some bullies while servo critters fly around or do they get into the setting by reading about 8 foot tall armored space marines bedecked in skulls followed by the skulls of humans made into servitors decapitating aliens
the teenage edge is part of the appeal of warhammer, especially for kids, taking it out leaves you with a generic scifi mush that they can get anywhere else
I don't see the point in loosing the identity of WH in order to appeal to an age group that got into WH perfectly fine without it having to be watered down
Here's an idea. Perhaps they've begun to realise that simply ignoring 50% of the population and their purchasing power is a silly move. If the identity of Warhams is (only) aimed at 13 year old boys' edgelord power fantasies, then they're making a silly move. For those of us who have been into it since the beginning, we know that the point of Warhammer (both Fantasy and 40k) has always been an amorphous one, and for a long, long time it didn't take itself too seriously, though it has remained a "boys' club" for many years longer than it should have.
Why aren't they choose your own adventure books? That's my only complaint. Think my intro to this world was the Jackson and Livingstone Fighting Fantasy Novels when I was 6-7 (specifically Sorcery!).
Art seemed so very familiar when I got WFB a few years later.
Karol wrote: I am not 12, but not that far away from that age. The AoS story seemed stupid, there is no way a girl with a sling shot could knock out or kill a grown man, even at point blank range.
Ever heard the story of David and Goliath? Ancients wouldn't invent it and it wouldn't survive retelling through generations of illiterate goat herders if it wasn't plausible to audience (who actually saw slings in action and knew what they are capable of). Sling is literally one of the cheapest, earliest and most common weapons you can find, allow easy energy storage in projectile even if the user isn't that strong, and can actually outrange early bows by a fair margin. It also surprisingly easy to improve even with low tech - making baked clay projectiles makes them uniform and accurate, and any civilization capable of working metal can cast lead projectiles, and these are far more dangerous than stones. Really, if you want a weapon a girl can use to kill an adult sling is one of the few realistic prospects...
ChargerIIC wrote: As part of Irish History Renactment we'd load slings with both traditional (pre-christian) stone and metal bullets (as in a round metal ball) and shoot them at stuff. Using a proper sling (not one of those Y-armed toys Americans use) you can dent armor, crack bone, and put a hole in the side of a house. The range is pretty good too, but the accuracy is hellishly difficult. Release a split second early or too late and the shot goes feet from where you intended.
Slings were famously used as skirmish weapons for centuries from the Indian Subcontinent all the way to North Europe. It may be hard to nail one guy with a single bullet, but if they are all standing in a line and there's 20 of you, you can start breaking bones and penetrating skulls. Just make certain to run when they get into Dart range.
These are some examples of sling bullets used by balearic slingers of the time:
Spoiler:
They often used lead "bullets", pointed and weighted for straighter flight, reportedly able to break shields and kill the guy behind it.
Diodorus of Sicily (I B.C.) had this to say about balearic slingers:
Spoiler:
"Their combat equipment consists of three slings, one in the head, one in the waist and a third in the hand; using this weapon they are capable of throwing projectiles bigger than those thrown by other slingers (1 mina of weight, that's almost a pound and half) and with such a great force that it seems that the projectile has been thrown by a catapult. That is why when attacking cities they are capable of disarming and knocking down the defenders up in the walls and, in open combat, they manage to break an enormous number of shields, helmets and all sorts of breastplates".
As to the books themselves... I really, really don't see what problem people might have with them.
I think my biggest issue with Warhammer Adventures can be summed up by comparing the intro tagline from the 40k excerpt to a standard Black Library tagline
Spoiler:
Simplifying the universe and turning the Imperium into the good guys purely in the service of attracting a younger demographic doesn't sit well with me. I got into the game when I walked into Barnes and Noble as a bright eyed middle schooler and saw the first Imperial Guard omnibus on the shelf so the fiction of 40k is very near and dear to my heart.
Even though the Imperium isn't all sunshine and roses they are generally seen as more good than most other factions - and I'd wager the vast majority of players who are not heavily invested in the lore buy into all the Imperium glory and holy Emperor slogens and their divine goodness.
Heck even in Dawn of War they are the good guys in the main campaign, whilst chaos are clearly evil.
Consider it like layers of an onion. On the surface the Imperium is the shining beacon of goodness and glory for the good of mankind against a universe full of monsters and beasts and the depraved powers of chaos. Scratch away a few layers and you can see some of the internal darkness, scratch more and you can see the gothic twist of evil and nasty things that exist within - scratch a few more and the Inquisition will likely be coming for your head!
So the childrens books take a surface layer approach that introduces them to the "onion". Some will never go any further, others will peel back more layers and get more involved!
Put it simply - when you were 8, did you consider the country where you live to be evil?
How about now?
Automatically Appended Next Post: (With the caveat that if you did think your country was evil when you were 8, that really sucks and you've probably had more pressing things to worry about in your life than the target age of some books)
Graphite wrote: Put it simply - when you were 8, did you consider the country where you live to be evil?
It helps to consider something evil when you have a comparision to make. If you live - for example - in a society like North Korea but you never saw South Korea because of closed borders you might not see anything "evil" in your own country. Community needs quite exemplar and intelligent human beings to point out problems in a country without such comparisions (lets call them community leaders, speakers or preachers). Most humans in 40k i believe dont know very much and have quite narrow point of view.
Snippets up on the website are actually pretty good. No pretending everything is lovely. Low level violence, with the really ‘orrible bits happening off-screen.
I keep saying that if they want to sell the complete hobby experience to kids, they should have a nice little board game (like Tomb of the Necrons?) with miniatures for the kids, a couple of Primaris and the shiniest of novelties, all new pushfit Necrons. Give them something tangible that gets them enthused about GW's core business. miniatures.
MistaGav wrote: Bit odd how they've managed to get three ex-doctor who actors/actresses to appear in their audio books now. Just a funny coincidence I guess.
I know John Hurt has also done voice work for a Space Marine movie. Is he the third Dr. Who actor you are referring too?
Chikout wrote: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/07/warhammer-adventures-the-audiobooks/
GW is really going for it with their audiobook readers.
David Tennant will read the 40k books and Billie Piper will do the Aos ones. Not sure about Billie Piper, but David Tennant is a great choice.
It's an internet dweller's dream. Audio of The Doctor saying grimdark things. Imagine the mashups you can do:
"Is time travel safe, Doctor?" In the Grim Darkness of the Future there is only war
"Ah, it's pretty cute for an alien" Blood for the Blood God
MistaGav wrote: Bit odd how they've managed to get three ex-doctor who actors/actresses to appear in their audio books now. Just a funny coincidence I guess.
I know John Hurt has also done voice work for a Space Marine movie. Is he the third Dr. Who actor you are referring too?
-
No, Catherine Tate was announced recently for voicing Greyfax in another audibook the other day.
Fairly obvious really. Big names attract more attention then unknowns so you can reach a bigger crowd. Tennant and Piper with their Doctor Who history can appeal to the parents and kids that know their names. And these aren't aimed at an older hobbyist like yourself.
MistaGav wrote: Bit odd how they've managed to get three ex-doctor who actors/actresses to appear in their audio books now. Just a funny coincidence I guess.
A British company poaching talent from a popular British TV show makes perfect sense to me. Just be glad GW isn't based in America. We could have Jim Parsons as Roboute and Kayley Cuoco as Alarielle.
Rayvon wrote: I am puzzled as to why they would want celebrity's to voice them, seems like a pointless expense to me and instantly puts me off buying them.
Has Billie Piper really established herself as one of the world’s most critically acclaimed and awarded actors ?
Two reasons- Name recognition, and popularity of her roles. She's also an excellent voice actor. I only wish she would have started earlier and done some voiceover work for some cartoons....
I guess I totally underestimated the popularity of Dr Who and the power of celebrity fascination, that shows what I know..
To be fair David Tennant was the Dr last time I watched Dr who and he was pretty decent, I can understand that one more than the Billie Piper one, I never really liked her as an actress but if her voice acting is good then fair enough, besides I can just get my lad the books instead !
A quick Google tells me that Billie Piper won a Lawrence Olivier award for her stage work, so it seems she does have some genuine acting credentials. If you go to the warhammer adventures website you can hear audio samples from both series.
Skinnereal wrote: Has anyone mentioned that Tom Baker voices the 2003 Fire Warrior computer game alongside Brian Blessed and Sean Pertwee?
I now sort of really want to get that game just for those voices!
Tom Baker has been sort of kicking around in computer games for a while and has done Heretic and Knights of Honour as well as a few others.
Trust me you don't. Taht game was Crap - even back than. And to get it to work today is ... well lets say I would rather get all teeth pulle without anesthesia and get kickt in the balls afterwards than trying it again.
Eh, Fire Warrior was an average FPS at the time, hardly competing with good games but still easily an enjoyable game. The bigger issue is the shooter premise, with a lone Fire Warrior slaughtering dozens and dozens of Marines. But given GW's modern background, if you can overlook that, Fire Warrior will hardly be a problem.
No idea with compatibility issues with modern computers, though. That can always be a problem.
Fire warrior the book was pretty awesome. Remember that one time when the book gave us an intimate portrait of a guardsman or deckhand, from childhood through his current struggles, with motivations we can all relate to, and then in the next scene Kais blew his brains out with a single headshot? Remember that?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Fire warrior the book was pretty awesome. Remember that one time when the book gave us an intimate portrait of a guardsman or deckhand, from childhood through his current struggles, with motivations we can all relate to, and then in the next scene Kais blew his brains out with a single headshot? Remember that?
The firewarrior novel is actually one of my favorites, despite being forced to follow a FPS game - the author did really well.
Samples from the first two books are available in PDF form:
Warhammer Adventures is a series of action-packed stories arriving in bookstores and on Audible in February 2019.
The Realm Quest and Warped Galaxies are on their way, and right now you can get a FREE Book 0 for the series!
Book 0 features extracts from each of the first books in the series, City of Lifestone written by Tom Huddleston and Attack of the Necron, written by Cavan Scott.
Steeped in adventure, the books feature epic heroes, mighty armies and terrifying monsters who clash against the backdrop of magical landscapes while superhuman soldiers battle inhuman horrors and mighty spacefleets war for the fate of mankind.
One issue that I'm seeing is that I can't see any way to pre-order print versions of the books. I hope I'm just not seeing it, because Middle Grade isn't a good genre for eBooks (at the moment- once Ereaders get cheap enough that people give them to 8 year olds, Middle Grade on Ebook will be more viable).
That has to be an oversight. Surely there will be paperbacks of these books distributed to chain stores where they can catch the eyes of the uninitiated and actually generate new customers for GW.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: That has to be an oversight. Surely there will be paperbacks of these books distributed to chain stores where they can catch the eyes of the uninitiated and actually generate new customers for GW.
Right?
Alternatively, they're meant to be read by children of gamers (my daughter is 7, and she's been playing Space Crusade with me, so I think we have found the target audience).
But she doesn't get an eReader. Yeah, I think it is a huge waste if there's no paperback release. Even a print on demand release would suffice.
This isn't like releasing to their current target market where ebooks can work well because people are already interested. This is a new product line and aimed at new gamers as well as casual association and children of gamers. I think GW fully realises that physical books will likely outsell digital for this product line.
NurglesR0T wrote: digital format most likely for initial release. paperback will follow later on - Black Library have started following this trend lately.
Digital distribution has a much shorter lead time than paper production.
Huh. I hadn't been following that trend. My expectation was that publisher intentionally delay eBook releases so that they can funnel sales to the hardcover version (generally, if you want to support a book release, the best thing is to buy it from a physical book store during the first week). Because you're right- once you've got your files finished, you could start selling eBooks at the same time that your printer is printing them out. It is also why there's no reason not to publish an ebook version, even if you don't expect many ebook sales.
I was very much weirded out that the pre-order link took me to the digital and audio book (also digital) rather than somewhere that I could order a physical copy- because I think the physical books are definitely the primary product.
I haven't checked out the sample chapters yet- anyone have anything to say about those?
Yeah I would have thought that the case, with physical copies etc.
What examples are there of BL doing ebooks before anything else?
Everything Coming Soon is ebook and hardback straight off, or paperback where relevant
Back when I was in the (upper) range of 8-12 years, there were no children's version of 40k. I don't think there even was any Black Library. And I didn't need a children's version either. And I'm still painting plastic minis 20 years after. Why would children today need warhammer adventures?
Baxx wrote: Back when I was in the (upper) range of 8-12 years, there were no children's version of 40k. I don't think there even was any Black Library. And I didn't need a children's version either. And I'm still painting plastic minis 20 years after. Why would children today need warhammer adventures?
Because GW would like to have more than the handful of kids who randomly chance upon the hobby or have parents who do it already. They want to reach out and capture the interest of more kids so that there's a greater chance of a larger market of people buying GW products. Especially now in an age where hands on toys are declining in sales significantly and digital are taking over - esp in geeky circles.
Lego has kind of held on but isn't anywhere near as popular as it once was; Meccanno is pretty much gone; Hornby lives off its older generation fans. GW realises that they've got to compete early and got to keep interest up high otherwise they will get overlooked. Miss a few generations and suddenly you've got a generational gap that's harder and harder to fill.
The books are definitely aimed at inviting younger gamers into their audience, and I think they're necessary. I also think that they're aimed at making the rising generation of players feel less like it is an 'all boys club.' The protagonists are split between boys and girls fairly evenly- in 40k there's an extra boy, and in AoS there's an extra girl.
Baxx wrote: Back when I was in the (upper) range of 8-12 years, there were no children's version of 40k. I don't think there even was any Black Library. And I didn't need a children's version either. And I'm still painting plastic minis 20 years after. Why would children today need warhammer adventures?
When I was that age, I bought a copy of Space Crusade and started playing 40k games from there. That game definitely features a lighter version of the 40k fluff, so this doesn't seem so blasphemous to me (even though it does look more Kim Possible than Space Crusade ever did).
Space Crusade was definitely 40k for a younger crowd- no question. GW hasn't had that for a while. A lot of folks blamed the price increases, or the changes to the fluff (at very least, the presentation is much darker than it was twenty years ago) but they've lost lot of younger gamers. When i was younger, there were plenty of older gamers at the game shop, but there were also a lot of teenagers playing. Now, it seems like the average age of players is closer to 30 than 16.
GW can definitely use a good entry point like Space Crusade once was. These books are part of that, and from what I can tell, that's the reason why GW has been emphasizing the "free form" games as the standard for AoS and 40k, with point balanced games as secondary. I think that they're trying to make their games very friendly to younger gamers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just checked amazon, and you can pre-order the paperbacks for 8.99.
- So, yes, Warhammer Adventures will be available in the form in which middle grade books are read, and not only as ebook/audiobook.
- They REALLY ought to link that on their website.
The late preteen and early teenage years are a massive influence on long term gamers. It's the most likely period in time, by far, that people are going to pick up on Warhammer games. Thereafter there's fast diminishing returns; with a lingering element in the young adult (uni) age brackets and then fast vanishing as people get older still.
Basically GW knows that their core recruitment market is young gamers. Old gamers are important too, but that's about maintaining market not getting new market. GW wants to make sure that they sink their claws into gamers early so that they've got you for life! Plus they are clearly well aware that if they sit back and don't target that market they will end up with an ageing gamer scene which will only ever dwindle and trying to recruit more in that age bracket will be tricky.
Baxx wrote: Back when I was in the (upper) range of 8-12 years, there were no children's version of 40k. I don't think there even was any Black Library. And I didn't need a children's version either. And I'm still painting plastic minis 20 years after. Why would children today need warhammer adventures?
Agreed,
We had Choose Your Own Adventure, the Tripod Trilogy, 2000AD, Hardy Boys/ Nancy Drew, Three Investigators, Fangora, Rue Morgue, Heavy Metal, Marvel, DC, etc.etc.etc. The middle school market that GW is eyeballing was strong, and Dungeons and Dragons ruled pretty much every kids pocket, until the market started picking up and Scifi games started picking up.
Alongside Palladium, FASA, GDW, Avalon Hill, TSR were running around like crazy people getting into other genres and 40K was just starting out when we were kids, and when it first came out it relied HEAVY on Scifi tropes of the 80's. THE biggest scifi game that was out and had the market was both Shadowrun, and FASA's BattleTech.
40K was not worthy of it's own book series, because it was part in parcel of the 80's. 40K was not for children, and still isn't, until they fix that ridiculous price entry point.
I would be a millionaire if I had a dollar for every look that a parent has had when they picked up a box of a 40K or fantasy product and looked at the price tag.
The late preteen and early teenage years are a massive influence on long term gamers. It's the most likely period in time, by far, that people are going to pick up on Warhammer games. Thereafter there's fast diminishing returns; with a lingering element in the young adult (uni) age brackets and then fast vanishing as people get older still.
Basically GW knows that their core recruitment market is young gamers. Old gamers are important too, but that's about maintaining market not getting new market. GW wants to make sure that they sink their claws into gamers early so that they've got you for life! Plus they are clearly well aware that if they sit back and don't target that market they will end up with an ageing gamer scene which will only ever dwindle and trying to recruit more in that age bracket will be tricky.
GW is only interested in that first hit.
They want to cash in fast on the initial entry with expensive basic product, then try to fleece the kids with "ABSOLUTE ESENTIALS" that are top tier price and bottom tier quality. The reality is GW relegated itself to boutique markets for the rich and spoiled with one to two man shops with one to three tables, as opposed to the obligatory 5-7 with a staff of 3 or 4 and organized play. Kids get run off because mommy wants to let little jimmy sit in the GW as a free child care shop, and goes off to buy her stuff, and then comes back and can't figure out why the stuff costs so much.
Secondary market of half finished GW stuff, and real world experiences are my references for this opinion.
No "Kid" worth their salt goes into a game system that tops out at over 3,000 bucks. Sorry.
Because the children of 20 years ago are not the same as the children of today. Today they have far more options for entertainment and far easier access too it. If these books can catch their attention on the shelf of a bookstore, supermarket or whatever, that's one more avenue of possibly getting them into the hobby. Especially when most GW's aren't usually directly on the high street but usually off to the side somewhere not everyone is going to see. It's logical business sense. And I never understood this 40K is not for children nonsense. It's always been aimed at 10-12 year olds initially and i'm sure that's the age a great many people started. And it's certainly what I see regularly enough.
They certainly invested a fair amount in their school groups. Sign up as a school group and they'll send you $100+ of paint and starter sets.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Which is kind of a mistake, actually. Board games with high replay, group dynamics and a lower barrier entry would be better, like the warhammer quest clones. Very few after school clubs can play full games of AOS or warhammer, just due to time and space.
Here in the UK anyway, but assume everywhere, the School Clubs aren’t aimed at full games.
Rather small starter games, and paint sessions etc.
Then they get into it and mummy and daddy take over with buying and investing for the bigger games.
I think it’s pretty much 1k max in most cases, space wise school tables fit it ok, but yeah any bigger would be no good.
I think Underworlds, Kill Team, and the Quests would serve better now.
Something going forward they might aim at perhaps..
They want to cash in fast on the initial entry with expensive basic product, then try to fleece the kids with "ABSOLUTE ESENTIALS" that are top tier price and bottom tier quality. The reality is GW relegated itself to boutique markets for the rich and spoiled with one to two man shops with one to three tables, as opposed to the obligatory 5-7 with a staff of 3 or 4 and organized play. Kids get run off because mommy wants to let little jimmy sit in the GW as a free child care shop, and goes off to buy her stuff, and then comes back and can't figure out why the stuff costs so much.
Secondary market of half finished GW stuff, and real world experiences are my references for this opinion.
No "Kid" worth their salt goes into a game system that tops out at over 3,000 bucks. Sorry.
My impression is that GW tools are marked up significantly in price, but are generally of high to good quality. Paints, brushes, clippers, blades are all pretty good - heck I've still got my old yellow clippers from what 15 years ago or more and the only reason I replaced them is because the little spring broke. Also I'd wager the second hand market is more stocked with the results of teen to adult age gamers and often gamers swapping armies and selling off old projects to fund new ones - most kids, even today, are not trading that heavily on ebay and the like.
As for staff GW used to have bigger stores with more staff; then upkeep and tax and wages and basically ALL the overheads for stores rose significantly plus the internet lowered many prices and introduced more competition - basically the highstreet changed and became - certianly in the UK - very unfriendly toward shops. In fact many are closing up, even big named brand stores are shutting and going bankrupt; food outlets seem to be about the only one with markup and profit margins and sales big enough to keep going; plsu they don't have to compete with online sales.
I'd wage a lot of kids worth their salt go into GW and Warhammer - Dakka is utterly FULL of kids who went into game systems like that! Plus lets be realistic, modern computer games and consoles are easily comparable in price. A solid modern console is what £500 or thereabouts at launch - that's easily several thousand points in most armies worth of models, tools and paint.
Ehhh. The clippers are ridiculously soft and chip very easily - which at that price level is unacceptable IMO, the brushes aren't bad but at the same-ish price a rosemary&co s.33 is going to beat the pants off of them, the files will do (...because anything will, for plastic and resin) but at several times the price you'd pay for similar quality elsewhere and most of the other tools are just plain bad, if you know what kind of quality is available elsewhere at similar or lower prices.
(I'll admit the painting grips look nice enough and those have been on my wish list for a while now, but that's probably the one and only exception. And they're still kinda pricey for what they are, really.)
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Because the children of 20 years ago are not the same as the children of today. Today they have far more options for entertainment and far easier access too it. If these books can catch their attention on the shelf of a bookstore, supermarket or whatever, that's one more avenue of possibly getting them into the hobby. Especially when most GW's aren't usually directly on the high street but usually off to the side somewhere not everyone is going to see. It's logical business sense. And I never understood this 40K is not for children nonsense. It's always been aimed at 10-12 year olds initially and i'm sure that's the age a great many people started. And it's certainly what I see regularly enough.
I think the death of the toy industry cannot be overstated. Mobile phones and computers have been bleeding it for years, and have encroached on it to the point children get given a tablet as soon as they go to school. The idea that kids play with physical toys is becoming almost quaint, and GW is scrabbling in order to maintain their entry-level hobbyist market segment.
Aye GW realises that they've got to compete with computers and mobile phones. Also I'd say that in the geek world magic the gathering has really risen in power and impact. Card games are really attractive because they break down into really small purchases very easily (a pack of cards here and there adds up to a lot, but on its own looks really small).
Plus a lot of 3rd party stores push magic more than warhammer and other wargames because magic makes far more profit for the store overall and is a tiny footfall in terms of stocking space and play space. A table that fits two wargamers might be broken down into enough space for 16 or so magic players (assuming 4 tables). And of those 16 you can likely get several to part with some money for more cards or even run a booster-draft session.
Spikeybits saw the animates short and the mention that they'll do a few more and exaggerated into Warhammer adventures Saturday morning cartoon confirmed!
So being a thirty-something man, I went and read the book about space undead intended for children:
Here's the first chapter of Attack of the Necron, from the teaser on the Warhammer Adventures website:
Spoiler:
CHAPTER ONE
Intruders
Zelia Lor awoke to the sound of buzzing in her cabin. She groaned. What time was it? Her bunk creaked as she turned over, pulling her thick woollen blanket with her. Surely that couldn’t be the alarm already? The shrill drone continued, flitting to and fro near the ceiling. Zelia pulled the blanket over her head, but the noise persisted. Throwing back the covers, she peered up into the gloom. That was no alarm. There was something up there, darting back and forth.
‘Hello?’ Zelia called out, her voice croaking from lack of sleep. She’d been up late last night, helping her mum catalogue artefacts in the ship’s cargo bay. A series of high-pitched chirps and whistles came from somewhere near the ceiling. Zelia reached out, feeling for the luminator switch next to her bunk. Glow-globes flickered into life, the tiny
invader squealing in surprise as it was bathed in sudden light. Zelia frowned as her eyes focused on her flighty visitor. It was a servo-sprite, one of the small winged robots that her mother used on board their planet-hopper, the Scriptor. The whimsical little things had been created by her mother’s assistant, Mekki. They had tiny bronze bodies and spindly limbs, with probes and data-connectors for fingers and toes. Their heads were long, with wide optical-beads for eyes that gave the little automata a constant look of surprise. Mesh wings whirred on the robot’s back, producing the strident buzz that had woken Zelia.
‘What are you doing up there?’ Zelia asked, rubbing sleep from her eyes. The servo-sprite chattered nervously at itself. If Zelia didn’t know better she would have thought the thing
was agitated, but like all the robots her mother used on their expeditions servo-sprites were just machines.
Elise Lor was an explorator, a scholar who travelled the length and breadth of the Imperium excavating technology from years gone by, and who often dreamed of digging up artefacts from the Dark Age of Technology, that period thousands of years ago when machines thought for themselves. Those days were long gone. Like so many things in the
41st millennium, artificial intelligence was a heresy, prohibited by order of the Eternal Emperor himself. While Mekki’s creations sometimes acted as if they were alive, they were just following their programming. They were tools, nothing more. However, something must have spooked the little automaton for it to squeeze through the gap beneath her cabin door. Gooseflesh crawled over Zelia’s skin. Why would a servo-sprite hide? Something was wrong. Swinging her legs off the bunk, Zelia gasped as her bare feet touched the cold metal deck. The floors of the Scriptor were supposed to be heated, but like most of the systems on the ramshackle spaceship, the heating hadn’t worked properly for months. The planet-hopper was old – very old – and its systems often failed faster than Mekki could fix them. But for all its glitches, the Scriptor had been Zelia’s home since she was born. She knew every creak of the hull, every bleep of the central cogitator. The low thrum of the engines lulled her to sleep every night. They were a comfort, especially during long journeys across the Imperium, rocketing from one dig to another. It was an odd, topsy-turvy life, helping her mum uncover crashed spaceships or ancient machines on distant worlds all across the galaxy, but Zelia wouldn’t have it any other way.
But now, the Scriptor didn’t feel comforting. It felt uneasy, and Zelia had no idea why. Pulling on her jacket and bandolier, Zelia tapped the vox stitched into her sleeve. The communicator beeped, opening a channel to the flight deck.
‘Mum? Are you there?’ There was no reply, neither from mum, nor Lexmechanic Erasmus, her mother’s archaeological partner and an expert in galactic languages, both
ancient and alien. There was no point trying to contact Mekki. Her mum’s young assistant was a whizz with technology, but hardly ever spoke to Zelia, even though they were around the same age. At twelve, she was a full year older than Mekki was, but they were largely strangers, the Martian boy preferring the company of his machines. Zelia didn’t mind. If she was honest, Mekki made her a little uncomfortable. He was so intense, with his pale skin and cold grey eyes. Still, he would know what to do with a flustered servo-sprite. The robot bumbled around her head as she opened the cabin door. She swatted it away, but it stayed close as she stepped out into the corridor. The passageway was quiet, electro-candles spluttering along the creaky walls.
The door to her mum’s cabin was ajar, and Zelia could see it was empty. For a woman who spent her life cataloguing artefacts, Elise Lor was incredibly untidy. Curios from her travels were crammed into nooks and crannies, while towers of textbooks and battered data-slates teetered on every available surface. Elise’s library was spread throughout the ship, piled high along the narrow gantries. How mum ever found anything was a mystery, and yet she always seemed to be able to put her finger on any text at a moment’s notice.
But where was she now? Zelia crept down the corridor, checking Erasmus’s cabin, but the elderly scholar was nowhere to be seen. He wasn’t in his room or on the mess deck where the Scriptor’s crew gathered to eat. Zelia checked the chrono-display on her vox. It was early, barely sunrise. Had mum and Erasmus gone to the dig already?
Zelia jumped at a noise from the back of the ship. Something heavy had been dropped, the deep clang echoing around the planet-hopper. That had to have come from the cargo bay, where Elise stored their most valuable discoveries.
They had been on this planet, a remote hive world called Targian, for three months now, and the hold was brimming with ancient tech. Of course, the noise could just have been Mekki, checking through the previous day’s finds, but somehow, she knew it wasn’t. Mekki was a lot of things, but clumsy wasn’t one of them. He would never drop something if he could help it. As the servo-sprite fussed around her head, Zelia picked up a heavy-looking ladle that Elise had used to slop grox stew into their bowls the night before. It wasn’t much of a defence, but it would have to do.
Zelia inched towards the cargo bay, praying that she’d find Mekki on the other side of the hold’s heavy doors. She paused, listening through the thick metal. There was a flurry of movement on the other side of the door, the scrape of leather against deck-plates, and then silence. Trying to ignore the increasingly frantic buzzing of the servo-sprite, Zelia stepped forwards and the doors wheezed open.
‘Hello? Mekki, are you in here?’ There was no answer. The cargo bay was silent, the lights kept permanently low to protect the more valuable artefacts. She crept through the
collection, tall cabinets on either side. Something moved ahead. Her grip tightened on the ladle.
‘Mekki? Seriously, this isn’t funny.’
A boot crunched behind her. Zelia whirled around, swinging the ladle.
‘You need to be careful,’ a gruff voice said. ‘You could hurt someone with that!’
Zelia cried out as thick fingers caught her wrist. They squeezed, and the metal spoon clattered to the floor.
‘That’s better.’ A stranger loomed over her, muscles bunched beneath a scruffy vest festooned with brightly coloured patches. His hair was styled into a lurid green mohawk, a tattoo of a large red cat leaping over his left ear. It was a Runak – a ferocious scavenger native to Targian with jagged scales instead of fur. Zelia had only seen the creatures out on the plains, but imagined they smelled better than the thug who was threatening her in her own home. ‘Let go of me,’ Zelia cried out, trying to pull away.
‘I don’t think so, ladle-girl,’ the tattooed thug leered, before calling over his shoulder. ‘You can come out. It’s only a little brat.’ Brat? The thug must only have been a year or two older than Zelia. He was strong though. There was no way of breaking his grip. More strangers slipped out of the shadow – two boys, and a girl with spiked purple hair and a glowing eye-implant. They all wore similar patches on their jackets, obviously members of the same gang.
‘What do you want?’ Zelia squeaked, and her captor smiled, showing uneven, stained teeth.
‘That’s a good question.’ The thug glanced around, his small, cruel eyes scanning the rusting relics on the shelves. ‘We thought this place would be full of treasure, didn’t we, Talen?’
The ganger behind him nodded. This one wasn’t as big, but still looked like he could handle himself in a fight. His blond hair was cropped short at the sides and a small scar ran through one of his thick, dark eyebrows. He held no weapons in his gloved hands, but Zelia couldn’t help but notice the snub-nosed beamer hanging next to the leather
pouch on his belt.
‘That’s what you told us, Rizz, but it looks like a load of old junk to me.’
‘Yeah, old junk,’ Rizz parroted, pulling Zelia closer. ‘Where’s the real booty?
Where’ve you stashed it?’
‘This is all we have,’ Zelia told him, glancing down at the hefty weapon Rizz held in his free hand. The ganger had fashioned a mace out of a long girder topped with a blunt slab of corroded metal.
‘You like my spud-jacker?’ Rizz said, brandishing the makeshift weapon. ‘I call her Splitter. Do you want to know why?’
‘I think I can guess,’ Zelia replied.
‘’Cos, I split skulls with her,’ he said anyway, as if she were the idiot, not him. ‘Ain’t that right, Talen?’ The blond-haired juve shifted uncomfortably, glancing nervously at the
cargo bay doors. ‘We should go, Rizz. There’s nothing here.’ Rizz glared at the younger kid. ‘Oi. I give the orders. Not you.’
‘Then order us to get out of here. We’re wasting our time.’
Rizz swung around, nearly pulling Zelia off her feet.
‘I’ll waste you in a minute,’ he growled, brandishing Splitter menacingly.
Zelia saw her chance and took it. She lashed out with her foot, kicking Rizz’s shin.
‘Ow!’ he yelped, spinning her around so she crashed into the nearest cabinet, cogs and gears tumbling all around her. Zelia snatched a length of metal piping from the floor, but a swipe of the spud-jacker sent it flying across the cargo bay.
‘Nice try,’ Rizz sneered above her. ‘But I’m not going to ask you again. Where’s
the valuable stuff? Where are you hiding it?’
‘I told you,’ she shouted back, gripping her aching fingers. ‘This is all there is.’
‘Liar,’ Rizz bellowed, raising the spud-jacker high above his head.
‘Splitter hates liars, and so do I.’ With a feral roar, he brought the mace crashing down.
One might wonder why Elise can employ the services of a lexmechanic, but apparently has to rely on an eleven year old child in place of a techpriest (and has no security or catering staff?); or why a machine just following its programming can be nervous/surprised/spooked/hiding; or how the Scriptor seems to be a planet-hopper yet warp-capable ship which is also able to land [Hellforged flashbacks]; or why you'd keep photosensitive material mixed with everything else in the cargo bay and not put it in its own storage area so that you could turn the lights on and not get ambushed by pre-teen hoodlums... But not me. I'd never wonder such things.
Well, maybe the cargo bay thing...
Spoiler:
Chapter 2 Having escaped from the Imperial Guards, Talen and Rizz make their way back to the Runak Warriors’ hideout separately.
The Warriors’ leader is a woman named Onak. Talen tells her that Rizz was menacing a twelve year old girl, which Onak disapproves of for some reason.
Rizz and Talen fight. Talen takes Rizz’s spud-jacker, but then its revealed that the weapon has a voice-activated self-electrocution feature, and Talen is incapacitated. Rizz reclaims his weapon and is about to finish Talen off when an alarm sounds.
Why Talen doesn’t cause the weapon to electrocute Rizz now that he knows the activation word isn’t important.
Chapter 3 The alarm signals that a planetary invasion is in progress.
Zelia flies her grav bike to Elise’s camp, where she crash lands, and meets her mother along with Mekki and Erasmus.
Mekki built his own bionic exo-arm when he was three years old!
Elise blames Erasmus for not locking the Scriptor, because responsibility is for random men and not mothers, I guess?
Zelia uses her omniscope to look at incoming Necron aircraft. It is an archeotech device which has a voice activated identifier of things it’s looking at.
Elise and Erasmus know what Necrons are and despite thinking they’re extinct know what they sound like.
The Necron Doom Scythes attack the hive city of Rhal Rata.
Chapter 4 Mekki doesn’t know about Necrons.
Tomb Blades and Scarabs attack them as they try to get Elise’s grav speeder working.
Chapter 5 The Space Marines arrive! A drop pod lands right in front of our heroes, but they’re fine. Nobody is particularly bothered by seeing the Emperor’s Angels of Death up close.
Zelia takes the controls of the speeder, because pre-teens make the best drivers in life or death situations. The illustration shows Elise at the controls though.
Mekki tinkers with the speeder and makes it actually fly like an aircraft. They do a barrel roll!
One of Mekki’s servo-sprites falls off whilst saving Erasmus from a Warrior which got on board. Mekki cries. But the sprites can fly..?
Chapter 6 We learn that Talen’s father is a Major with the Imperial Guard who taught his sons not to trust xenos. He’s presented as being a jerk (with a ‘long suffering’ wife), but under the current circumstances he’s actually right, isn’t he?
Talen and Rizz are using the cover of the Necron attack to sneak back to the spaceport and steal stuff.
Rizz gets trapped beneath some rubble and Talen saves him from an approaching Necron Warrior. Rizz abandons Talen, but is immediately killed himself. Talen is saved by a guardswoman, and flees to try to get aboard a ship and escape the planet.
Talen judges the captains at the spaceport for charging for passage off-world. Bit rich coming from someone who was just looting!
Talen meets old man Hinkis, and abandons his gang affiliations the second it becomes convenient to do so in order to accompany Hinkis aboard a ship – the Mercantor.
Chapter 7 Zelia and crew make it back to the spaceport. Zelia gets knocked over by a ratling. Elise gets separated. Erasmus takes the children and heads for the Mercantor because he knows the captain, apparently.
The Mercantor flies into space as Rhal Rata collapses – a matter of mere minutes after being attacked.
Aboard the ship Zelia meets Talen again. He’s a gibbering wreck because he hasn’t ever flown before. Zelia tells him it’s ok for him to be afraid. Nobody else seems to be having anything remotely approaching a normal human emotional reaction to the situation.
Then the entire planet explodes! That certainly escalated quickly!
Chapter 8 Mekki steals a vox unit from Hinkis. Erasmus offers to pay for it when he’s caught.
Necron attack craft are chasing the survivors from the planet. A new type of Necron flier seems to make an appearance here, but receives no description.
Zelia uses the vox to talk to her mother who has escaped aboard the Scriptor (which wasn’t locked, but I guess didn’t get stolen somehow?) Elise says to meet her at the ‘Emperor’s Seat’. (Presumably this means Terra, so why didn’t she just say that? And why not rendezvous somewhere closer?)
The Mercantor makes a seconds-long warp jump to escape.
They talk about how Erasmus might have a secret involving digging up Necrons. Talen acts like a jerk towards the Runak Warriors because he had to watch his back around them. Never mind the fact they’ve been looking after him for three years.
Mekki confirms that the necrons have FTL when he uses the vox unit to intercept comms from the bridge saying the Necrons have caught up with them. So Doom Sythes are FTL-capable now.
Mekki calls out Talen for being too emotional.
They all run for an escape pod. An ogryn tries to stop them.Talen claims that it’s ’our pod’. Captain Klennon might have something to say about that...
The ogryn steals the spud-jacker from Talen but gets electrocuted.
They launch the escape pod just as Mercantor re-enters the warp.
Chapter 9 The escape pod lands on an ice planet.There are noises outside. Erasmus lets Talen go out to fight whatever it is. He really is a terrible guardian of children! Talen is immediately floored by a jokaero.
Erasmus claims that because the escape pod launched just as the Mercantor jumped into the warp, they could have been thrown anywhere. Surely that would mean that they were exposed to the warp while in their completely unshielded escape pod though..?
Erasmus also claims that jokaero originated on Terra.
Mekki is able to talk to the alien using his servo-sprite. He learns that it stowed away aboard the pod with them.
Mekki scolds Talen for referring to the jokaero as ‘it’ instead of ‘he’.
The jokaero fixes the heating in the pod for them.
Chapter 10 Despite knowing that the jokaero’s name is Flegan-Pala, they all call it Fleapit. Misgendering it bad; giving it a derogatory nickname good..?
Mekki tries to steal Talen’s pouch. Erasmus claims that the two of them are old enough to sort out their own disagreements and refuses to intervene.
Chapter 11 Jokaero POV chapter. Flegan-Pala thinks like a human. He’s aware of the Old Ones.
The children go out to look for scrap to make a distress beacon. Fleapit notices that there is a Necron Deathmark on the planet with them.
Chapter 12 Fleapit makes a lot of noise, thus giving away their position, and builds a sonic cannon out of scrap he was storing in a pocket dimension backpack.
The Deathmark misses its shot despite having the element of surprise.
Zelia claims that Fleapit shouldn’t make them any more weapons because they don’t need them – they should ’learn from the mistakes of the past and not make them all over again’ – whilst being shot at by an alien assassin!
Chapter 13 The Deathmark phase shifts around the place while Fleapit shoots at it. Mekki works out that its systems are interfered with by the sonic cannon. Add that to the list of absurd Necron weaknesses.
Talen, Mekki, and Fleapit work together to reconfigure the sonic cannon. It creates a sonic pulse which causes the Necron to have a fit and disappear.
Chapter 14 They go back to the escape pod. Talen confronts Erasmus for not helping them. Fleapit steals Erasmus’ satchel and inside is a Necron crown.
It turns out that the lexmecanic had found it and kept it secret in the hope of using it to get a cushy job in a nice librarium somewhere. Everyone seems to think the destruction of Targian is his fault (including him), but even if he’d revealed his discovery the Necrons still would have attacked, surely?
Erasmus comes up with a plan to trick the Deathmark.
Chapter 15 Necron POV chapter. The Deathmark has his own ship. The crown is called the Diadem of Transference. The Necron dynasty is called Ketatrix, and he has been dispatched by an Overlord Merlek to recover the Diadem.
The text says that until now the Deathmark was armed with a tesla carbine, but the illustration showed a synaptic disintegrator.
Thye Necron attacks the human camp, which turns out to be a hologram. It kills the last servo-sprite and disables a sonic mine set up as a trap.
Zelia realises that Erasmus has gone missing.
Chapter 16 Erasmus goes to the Necron to give it the Diadem, but it’s a bait-and-switch with a second sonic mine. Fleapit had the relic in his pocket dimension all along.
Erasmus and the Deathmark are crushed by an avalanche.
Chapter 17 Zelia and Talen have a talk. Talen has a toy guardsman given to him by his brother who is probably dead after going off to fight.
Mekki and Fleapit have built a distress beacon.
The signal is picked up by Inquisitor Jeremias who decides that this particular distress call amongst many is important for some reason. His servo skull, Corlak, brings him his coat, and they set off on a rescue mission.
The end.
So lets talk about the Necron plan:
Spoiler:
The Katatrix have lost the Diadem of Transference, but are alerted when it is found by Erasmus. They know where it is, and launch an attack on Targian to reclaim it.
Why then do they destroy the entire planet almost immediately? We learn from the Deathmark in Chapter 15 that the Diadem has ‘fallen silent’ again since being discovered and the Necrons don’t know exactly where it is – multiple Deathmarks are dispatched to track the various Targian survivors. Blowing up the planet, when for all they know the Diadem is still on it, makes no sense at all.
The Necrons are able to track the human ships through the warp. Why only send a single Deathmark though? Why not a whole squad?
And why are Deathmarks so inept at their intended roll of assassinating enemies? I think the only time a Deathmark has been shown to be competent was in Veil of Darkness – and that turned out to all be a dream! This Deathmark is even worse than the one in Hammer & Anvil which decided to use a void blade instead of a gun.
Having located the Diadem, the Deathmark then doesn’t call for reinforcements (even after having been defeated once already).
But now that he knows where the Diadem is, even if the avalanche caused him to phase out, he can call in other forces, right? So the next book is going to be a full scale assault on the ice world..? Or will the Necrons just give up now because one Deathmark was defeated by a group of children and a monkey?
Other background stuff:
Spoiler:
What about that response time by the Ultramarines, eh?
A matter of minutes after the Necrons show up, and they have boots on the ground. They must have had a ship in orbit already (to launch the drop pod), so what were they doing just hanging out at Targian?
The Marines don’t really serve any particular purpose in the story which couldn’t have been fulfilled by the Imperial Guard. They seem to be present just to be recognisable as being in 40K.
Don’t all those centuries old techpriests look like chumps compared to eleven year old Mekki?
There seems to be nothing which he can’t interface with and/or repair. His servo-sprites seem to be servo skulls but better.
Miscellaneous points of interest:
Spoiler:
All of the antagonists, and background characters who behave like jerks, are male (Rizz, Hinkis, the ogryn, Erasmus, the Deathmark); and all of the authority figures, and helpful background characters*, are female (Elise, Onak, the guardswoman who saves Taren, Captain Klennon). Probably just a coincidence.
*minus the Space Marine
As I predicted, Zelia’s pacifism is laughably out of place; Mekki is guilty of techno heresy and is crazy overpowered; Talen is pretty damn unlikeable due to his willingness to abandon people at the drop of a hat; the Necrons don’t come out of the story well (although the power level of Doom Scythes has certainly shot up!); and everyone should have been dead multiple times over.
There are some oddly mixed messages - some more obvious than others - it's ok to show emotion, but not always; weapons are bad except when they solve our problems; the main cast work together despite their obvious outward differences, but every abhuman we meet is a jerk; captains selling their services, or gangs threatening young girls are bad, but everyone is stealing things all over the place.
I assume that some of the main characters might learn lessons by the end of the overall story arc, but by the end of this book no character development had been spelt out.
I was surprised to learn from the blurb on the back cover that Targian is Zelia's homeworld, since this is never brought up in the actual text, and like everybody else, she doesn't seem particularly affected by its loss.
I was a bit disappointed that the story isn’t a self contained episode – instead being just part 1 of 3+.
It is also disappointing that there are multiple glaring errors in the illustrations, which should have been picked up.
That said, I got more from this book than I would most issues of White Dwarf, and Scott still writes Necrons better than Counter ever has.
So you assume that when the child scolds the other for calling the Jokaero "it "instead of "he" is a reference to misgendering and not the fact that he is treating the xeno as a object and not a equal humanlike being?
To be honest is not the most unbiased review I have seen but thanks for the effort.
Galas wrote: So you assume that when the child scolds the other for calling the Jokaero "it "instead of "he" is a reference to misgendering and not the fact that he is treating the xeno as a object and not a equal humanlike being?
To be honest is not the most unbiased review I have seen but thanks for the effort.
I'm sure ensuring they treat the Jokaero equally and with sensitivity is their only concern, hence why as the review notes they immediately discard his actual name and start calling him "Fleabag"
Nothing like a kids show where the good guys are part of an oppressive, xenophobic culture ridden with corruption and facing constant threat both from chaos and within.
I know i'm not the intended audience, but that sounds far, far worse than i thought. It should have used 40k to tell a story that still fit within the overall setting without the safer aspects of it being a downside that took away from the depiction of the universe, not cobble together a random assort of 40k things to try to scrape together some semblance of a plot regardless of if actually worked with that available material. I knew that obviously this would sort of water down the setting to make it more suitable, but It sounds as if it goes quite far beyond just doing that...if they have to misrepresent the setting and portray it as something that doesn't even sound slightly like what it actually is, make poorly written plot contrivances and overall make so many absurd inclusions and changes that the end depiction doesn't even somewhat resemble the proper thing while also not really trying to fit into to the lore (e.g, the bionic arm at 3, FTL DeathScythes, the Warp travel) and seemingly trying to push a message without much thought put into it, than maybe the setting just isn't suitable at all, though.
I'm pretty sure you could deconstruct most 40K books in similar fashion as lots of them depend on crazy conincidences, implausible combat results, dubious decisions by the opposition etc
(not that I've read it to be able to say whether on not it works as a fun adventure novel)
I still want the miniatures of the kids. That would be pretty cool to use them in skirmish level, and RPGs. For the stories, At first I was pretty against them, but it is just a sales device to get kids back into the game. Too bad they couldn't drop the price a little so a kid could actually play though... Cpt Obvious isn't always so, I guess.
The Necron story is pretty much set for middle school kids from 10-15. it's well written for them, so Kudos. (I haven't read the other one, No interest, personally.)
These are good books to get the kid ready for reading Black Library, and keep them engaged.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I'm pretty sure you could deconstruct most 40K books in similar fashion as lots of them depend on crazy conincidences, implausible combat results, dubious decisions by the opposition etc
(not that I've read it to be able to say whether on not it works as a fun adventure novel)
I don't think those things occurring in other novels is quite as bad, though. There's a difference between them happening simply as the result of author error or poor writing, and them being there because the core idea needs them in order to even somewhat work.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I'm pretty sure you could deconstruct most 40K books in similar fashion as lots of them depend on crazy conincidences, implausible combat results, dubious decisions by the opposition etc
(not that I've read it to be able to say whether on not it works as a fun adventure novel)
Honestly when on de-constructs books into their most simplistic forms the "angle" the person takes can seriously influence how the book can appear. Extreme simplification can highly heavy bias in the reviewer very quickly - a positive person will pick out the positive elements and present things in a positive light very quickly; whilst one with a more negative angle to begin with will take the opposite pathway. And because its so heavily simplified neither result is "wrong" they are just simply extreme different takes. Plus a LOT of things in stories can sound really bad and simple when simplified - its one big reason I tend to never bother reading blurbs on fantasy books because they all sound ever so silly when shortened to two or three sentences.
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(But I still believe it is just a normal hood)
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