I think it speaks to GW's art first approach to each facet of their development. It seems rather apparent that when GW starts a new project the first thing that happens is that everyone involved produces as many concepts as possible... that they distill or blend them and further develop the ones they like. How involved we are kept is really limited by their willingness to share those concepts and in particular concepts they might be willing not to pursuit at this time. Simply put, they aren't willing to share with us much in the way of concepts. I expect we will always have a certain part of their process as a black box just because of their IP concerns.
aka_mythos wrote: Simply put, they aren't willing to share with us much in the way of concepts. I expect we will always have a certain part of their process as a black box just because of their IP concerns.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Goodwin had a good interview where he talked about developing a pallet or language of elements for a faction. IE elder all having gems and curves.
It was a good read but I can't remember where it was from. WD may be?
aka_mythos wrote: Simply put, they aren't willing to share with us much in the way of concepts. I expect we will always have a certain part of their process as a black box just because of their IP concerns.
I have to admit that's a solid article about the feedback they got and that they actually are listening to the fans. It almost sounds like playtesting.</heresy>
In our inaugural Battle Sister Bulletin, we took a look at some of the concept art that inspired the development of the range’s iconography. This time, we’re taking a look at their rules development…
When Chapter Approved 2018 first hit the shelves, we asked you – our lovely community – to get your Adepta Sororitas on the battlefield and send us your feedback to help our rules team make them as fun and exciting to play as possible. And you have!
First of all, if you were one of the many hobbyists that sent us your feedback, thank you very much for your help. Now that the worldwide playtest stage is over, the rules team are now in a position to write the finished version of the codex. That being the case, any feedback sent in from today onwards is unlikely to be of use to the development process, so for now, just relax and enjoy playing games with your beta rules as normal!
Of all the feedback we received, there were three main areas in the beta codex that most people felt needed improvement.
Army-wide abilities are always an integral part of any faction’s rules, as they affect not just one, but most (if not all) of the units within it. That being the case, it’s especially important that they reflect how the army fights while giving the faction a unique edge in battle. In the case of the Adepta Sororitas, many of their units are able to manifest Acts of Faith, representing the divine will of the Emperor lending aid to his loyal subjects in battle.
In the beta rules, each Act of Faith requires a Test of Faith roll to be passed in order for them to take effect. According to your feedback, the reliance on luck for the Acts of Faith to kick in has led to some games where these rules didn’t quite have the impact that players felt they should.
The Plan: The rules team are looking to rebuild the Acts of Faith system from the ground up to ensure they are both more reliable, and can be used to impact key moments in the battle – just as acts of divine intervention should. You will be as the Emperor Himself, bestowing blessings on your units as and when they are most needed.
Exorcist Missile Launcher
The Exorcist missile launcher is a devastating weapon, as its profile in the beta codex certainly suggests.Despite having the potential to inflict a whopping 36 wounds, many of you felt that the random number of shots it fires hampers its effectiveness on the battlefield. Should you roll a low number of shots, then fail some or all of the hit rolls for your precious few attacks, it can feel a little disappointing.
The Plan: The rules team are looking at how we can make this iconic, missile-launching organ a more consistent damage-dealing addition to your army. They have a few ideas already – heretics beware!
Celestian Squads
These veteran Battle Sisters are the fighting elite of the Adepta Sororitas, acting as the loyal bodyguards and sworn protectors of senior members of their Order. Even though they can be equipped with a selection of powerful wargear, your collective feedback made it clear that they struggle to compete with the other Elites choices in the army.
The Plan: The rules team will look to add a thematic new ability or two to the Celestians to help them have more of an impact on the battlefield without sacrificing their role as sworn guardians of their Order. After all, just because Celestians are protectors first and foremost doesn’t mean they can’t dish out some serious pain!
They're actually listening, and seem to understand that feedback on stuff like the Exorcist doesn't mean players are opposed to variable damage output so much as "could we have a tighter range on the variance than 0-36 wounds?".
All that article does is state that people fed back that obviously poor rules were poor, and then they say that they're going to do something non-specific about it.
That's nothing.
It doesn't *say* anything.
It shouldn't have required a paid for beta codex for GW's rules writers to come to recognise that Acts of Faith were rubbish. And if they thought that they were ok before, why would we expect them to be able to fix them now?
And if evident weaknesses like Acts of Faith and Celestians got as far as publication, apparently without being noticed, what hope is there for any completely new units which aren't going to get the benefit of beta testing being balanced?
Hopefully them rebuilding them from the ground up just means getting rid of the random chance element. I actually like the style of the Acts of Faith as they are, but the randomness is what kills them for me. The randomness also killed the exorcists for me a long while back too. Just replaced them with admech vehicles though. Way more versatile in load-outs anyway...
The article mentions looking at rebuilding from the ground up which just worries me they're taking the reviews and complaints as "burn it all down and start brand new!". They have something halfway decent, and the game IS about rolling dice,....but c'mon GW...not everything needs to be rolled for.
Randomness has always been an issue with GW's rules. The potential for high performance when compared to the potential for low performance results in a weapon that is worth less than an option that has a weapon stat that is reliably an average of those extremes.
In general GW should write rules so the base line is what might otherwise be its average performance, and there is only an opportunity to perform better than expected and not worse than expect. For example, many of the weapons that have a D3 stat should be 1+D3, all other costs remaining the same. GW prices things in a vague way with wiggle room and allowing for point efficiencies; if the advantage is too significant to have a stat plus a bonus fit inside that wiggle room and the balance grayness of point efficiency they should question why its in the game.
Lord Damocles wrote: All that article does is state that people fed back that obviously poor rules were poor, and then they say that they're going to do something non-specific about it.
That's nothing.
It doesn't *say* anything.
It shouldn't have required a paid for beta codex for GW's rules writers to come to recognise that Acts of Faith were rubbish. And if they thought that they were ok before, why would we expect them to be able to fix them now?
And if evident weaknesses like Acts of Faith and Celestians got as far as publication, apparently without being noticed, what hope is there for any completely new units which aren't going to get the benefit of beta testing being balanced?
So you'd prefer they did nothing? I'm glad they're at least trying.
pm713 wrote: So you'd prefer they did nothing? I'm glad they're at least trying.
I'd prefer they
1) Were competent to begin with - it is literally the job of the rules team to write rules. They shouldn't require us to tell them that Celestians are rubbish.
2) Communicated meaningful information. We learn nothing from this 'article'.
I love how the act of faith rules are rebuilt from the ground up… in every iteration of the rules, even the smallest ones!
I'm worried that they didn't mention the (now completely useless, I think) Gemini but just because they didn't mention them doesn't mean they won't change them, I guess.
People don't like AoF being random. Okay, they can make them guaranteed, but probably expect them to be nerfed in some way.
People don't like the Exorcist. Okay - I don't know here, I think they are just wrong. Its a D6-dark lance tank with T8 and a 6++ (buffable) save for just 125 points. Yes you can roll a 1 and thats bad. You can also roll a 6 and its a bit good. If they were to make it always 4 shots, compare it to a quad-las Pred, costing approximately 50% more points with far weaker defensive stats. I realise a Pred is dreadful - but seriously. I can't really see why now you wouldn't always have 3 exorcists in a sisters list.
And yes, Celestians are currently a bit pointless. I'd have thought they were obviously on the table for an overhaul if/when they get new models. I can't believe they are going to go "here's a kit, use it to make sisters, celestians, dominions and retributors, because thats what we came up with in 2nd or 3rd edition and we are not changing it now".
I am totally fine with AoF going back to 2nd edition rules. I’d also like all the old Relics back, if we’re looking in that book for inspiration, and the special character cannonesses too.
i'm surprised theres nothing about flamers...does anyone run flamers in their Sisters list? I started sisters cause I enjoyed pyromaniac space nuns. These days its dakka nuns, which is cool but we need the pyro incentive. Kind of surprised Exorcists took the spotlight, I thought they were fine. Also, wtf is up with Repressors...so many questions. I appreciate the communication but there are still way to many questions still.
Edit: Gatta beg the question, rerelease exorcist kit, rules buff to sell models...sincerity obfuscation? How to Act Of Faith GW Rules team?
Twoshoes23 wrote: i'm surprised theres nothing about flamers...does anyone run flamers in their Sisters list? I started sisters cause I enjoyed pyromaniac space nuns. These days its dakka nuns, which is cool but we need the pyro incentive. Kind of surprised Exorcists took the spotlight, I thought they were fine. Also, wtf is up with Repressors...so many questions. I appreciate the communication but there are still way to many questions still.
Edit: Gatta beg the question, rerelease exorcist kit, rules buff to sell models...sincerity obfuscation? How to Act Of Faith GW Rules team?
Flamer range is 8". Most things that want to be in melee deepstrike outside of 9". If they get off the charge, the flamers aren't even useful. This is a big reason why flamers with longer range are so potent but those with only 8" range are ignored. To do the other function of flamers, chaff clearing, you actually have to get close to the chaff, which means footslogging it for most flamers.
I have to admit that's a solid article about the feedback they got and that they actually are listening to the fans. It almost sounds like playtesting.</heresy>
It doesn't really. Playtesting actually has solid data points and actionable items. 'Too random' is a quirky and subjective thing, where a lot of feedback is "in this one game, i only got one shot and it missed so model=borked."
30 seconds skimming the rules would produce much the same reaction, especially with any familiarity with how a lot of heavy weapons work in 8th edition.
On the other side, 'Redo from start' for the obvious things (and tellingly, _yet again_ for AoF and Celestians) is a bad thing at month 3 of the year when this army comes out. Given there is lead time needed at the other end for printing, distribution and all that kind of thing, the window for getting these rules right is shrinking. And these aren't unknown or new issues. The systems in the beta rules (that they sold for real money) aren't all that different from the last two iterations of the sister's rules.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: I love how the act of faith rules are rebuilt from the ground up… in every iteration of the rules, even the smallest ones!
I'm worried that they didn't mention the (now completely useless, I think) Gemini but just because they didn't mention them doesn't mean they won't change them, I guess.
It's March if GW is planning to hit 2019 we have to assume the models are done and since the books are printed in China the PDF have to be due soon.
Books are the ones that need to be done first and yes if they are aiming nov 2019 they have like 2-3 months to do it. Well gw rules don't get extensive testing anvway. Business as usual
Yeah I'm thinking that rumour that we'd get a Sisters vs Somebody Else boxed set this year and the actual release would be the first half of 2020 is sounding a lot more plausible now we know it's March and they've not got a final version of the codex yet.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I wonder what all the new units no one got to playtest will end up being.
Some are broken good, other are broken bad, Sisters players complain about the broken bad, the rest complain about the broken good.
Call me Nostradamus!
H.B.M.C. wrote: I wonder what all the new units no one got to playtest will end up being.
Meh, it's not like the beta codex will have any impact either. What GW is going to release and what they are willing to publicize before that time has precious little overlap.
And given that time is running out for rules corrections I suspect they picked the points of criticism for this article that they already intended to change in the real codex to make themselves look good because when people have the codex they can then point to an article from six months earlier and say "yes, see, GW did listen to our concerns. My Exorcist shoots 2D3 missiles now. Granted,the alternate build of the new kit is still so much better, but they did improve the Exorcist, too!"
Geifer wrote: And given that time is running out for rules corrections I suspect they picked the points of criticism for this article that they already intended to change in the real codex to make themselves look good because when people have the codex they can then point to an article from six months earlier and say "yes, see, GW did listen to our concerns. My Exorcist shoots 2D3 missiles now. Granted,the alternate build of the new kit is still so much better, but they did improve the Exorcist, too!"
Yup, because new guns the CSM are getting now instead of autocannons and plasma guns and alternate build for defiler is sooo much better, eh?
H.B.M.C. wrote: I wonder what all the new units no one got to playtest will end up being.
Meh, it's not like the beta codex will have any impact either. What GW is going to release and what they are willing to publicize before that time has precious little overlap.
And given that time is running out for rules corrections I suspect they picked the points of criticism for this article that they already intended to change in the real codex to make themselves look good because when people have the codex they can then point to an article from six months earlier and say "yes, see, GW did listen to our concerns. My Exorcist shoots 2D3 missiles now. Granted,the alternate build of the new kit is still so much better, but they did improve the Exorcist, too!"
So what exactly is the issue? That GW told us in advance that they're changing the worst issues the beta codex has?
Would you've preferred if they just didn't tell us anything? I really don't see how they could have done this in a way to please you. Show the planned actual rules only to be called liars, frauds and worse once the codex comes out because they had to change something in the meantime?
The beta Codex obviously has impact, or are you seriously thinking that they released a crappy AoF system with plans in place to replace it anyway?
Geifer wrote: And given that time is running out for rules corrections I suspect they picked the points of criticism for this article that they already intended to change in the real codex to make themselves look good because when people have the codex they can then point to an article from six months earlier and say "yes, see, GW did listen to our concerns. My Exorcist shoots 2D3 missiles now. Granted,the alternate build of the new kit is still so much better, but they did improve the Exorcist, too!"
Yup, because new guns the CSM are getting now instead of autocannons and plasma guns and alternate build for defiler is sooo much better, eh?
Too early to say at the moment... Wait until we see the full Chaos release
H.B.M.C. wrote: I wonder what all the new units no one got to playtest will end up being.
Meh, it's not like the beta codex will have any impact either. What GW is going to release and what they are willing to publicize before that time has precious little overlap.
And given that time is running out for rules corrections I suspect they picked the points of criticism for this article that they already intended to change in the real codex to make themselves look good because when people have the codex they can then point to an article from six months earlier and say "yes, see, GW did listen to our concerns. My Exorcist shoots 2D3 missiles now. Granted,the alternate build of the new kit is still so much better, but they did improve the Exorcist, too!"
So what exactly is the issue? That GW told us in advance that they're changing the worst issues the beta codex has?
Would you've preferred if they just didn't tell us anything? I really don't see how they could have done this in a way to please you. Show the planned actual rules only to be called liars, frauds and worse once the codex comes out because they had to change something in the meantime?
The beta Codex obviously has impact, or are you seriously thinking that they released a crappy AoF system with plans in place to replace it anyway?
Nobody calls GW liars and frauds when they release an errata or beta rules that change an existing rule. But you think if GW were to release a beta codex, specifically called out as that, then people would suddenly do that when the actual codex includes changes from the beta codex? Stop being ridiculous.
My objection to the whole process, as I have stated before when they announced and released the beta codex, is that they let us play with units we have had for a long time, and that had rules for 8th ed and plenty of potential for customer feedback for eighteen months when the beta codex was released. Meanwhile we can expect that there will be new rules and units in the actual codex that no one sees until it is way, way too late to give feedback on. Really, Codex Adepta Sororitas will be no different from any other codex in spite of getting what GW markets as a beta test: We will have the full picture only once the codex is released, and any meaningful changes will happen afterwards in the biannual FAQs and Chapter Approved.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I wonder what all the new units no one got to playtest will end up being.
Meh, it's not like the beta codex will have any impact either. What GW is going to release and what they are willing to publicize before that time has precious little overlap.
And given that time is running out for rules corrections I suspect they picked the points of criticism for this article that they already intended to change in the real codex to make themselves look good because when people have the codex they can then point to an article from six months earlier and say "yes, see, GW did listen to our concerns. My Exorcist shoots 2D3 missiles now. Granted,the alternate build of the new kit is still so much better, but they did improve the Exorcist, too!"
So what exactly is the issue? That GW told us in advance that they're changing the worst issues the beta codex has?
Would you've preferred if they just didn't tell us anything? I really don't see how they could have done this in a way to please you. Show the planned actual rules only to be called liars, frauds and worse once the codex comes out because they had to change something in the meantime?
The beta Codex obviously has impact, or are you seriously thinking that they released a crappy AoF system with plans in place to replace it anyway?
Nobody calls GW liars and frauds when they release an errata or beta rules that change an existing rule. But you think if GW were to release a beta codex, specifically called out as that, then people would suddenly do that when the actual codex includes changes from the beta codex? Stop being ridiculous.
That's not what I said. I said that if they promised a certain change in the ARTICLE that people would get upset if they then had rules different from that in the finished codex.
If you don't like the whole process, that's another thing. Your point about potential new units not being playtested since they're not in the beta Codex is absolutely valid and I agree with you on that.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I wonder what all the new units no one got to playtest will end up being.
Meh, it's not like the beta codex will have any impact either. What GW is going to release and what they are willing to publicize before that time has precious little overlap.
And given that time is running out for rules corrections I suspect they picked the points of criticism for this article that they already intended to change in the real codex to make themselves look good because when people have the codex they can then point to an article from six months earlier and say "yes, see, GW did listen to our concerns. My Exorcist shoots 2D3 missiles now. Granted,the alternate build of the new kit is still so much better, but they did improve the Exorcist, too!"
Honestly, after it came out, it seems more of a play test for things like AoF, warlord traits, and Covenants.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I wonder what all the new units no one got to playtest will end up being.
Meh, it's not like the beta codex will have any impact either. What GW is going to release and what they are willing to publicize before that time has precious little overlap.
And given that time is running out for rules corrections I suspect they picked the points of criticism for this article that they already intended to change in the real codex to make themselves look good because when people have the codex they can then point to an article from six months earlier and say "yes, see, GW did listen to our concerns. My Exorcist shoots 2D3 missiles now. Granted,the alternate build of the new kit is still so much better, but they did improve the Exorcist, too!"
So what exactly is the issue? That GW told us in advance that they're changing the worst issues the beta codex has?
Would you've preferred if they just didn't tell us anything? I really don't see how they could have done this in a way to please you. Show the planned actual rules only to be called liars, frauds and worse once the codex comes out because they had to change something in the meantime?
The beta Codex obviously has impact, or are you seriously thinking that they released a crappy AoF system with plans in place to replace it anyway?
Nobody calls GW liars and frauds when they release an errata or beta rules that change an existing rule. But you think if GW were to release a beta codex, specifically called out as that, then people would suddenly do that when the actual codex includes changes from the beta codex? Stop being ridiculous.
That's not what I said. I said that if they promised a certain change in the ARTICLE that people would get upset if they then had rules different from that in the finished codex.
If you don't like the whole process, that's another thing. Your point about potential new units not being playtested since they're not in the beta Codex is absolutely valid and I agree with you on that.
My apologies. I completely misread that.
I will say that if that had happened, it would be completely on GW. No one pressured them into releasing this specific article at this time and in its current form. If they wanted to speak of what we can expect in the codex, it could have been as simple as saying in one article that the playtest period is over with a promise of a followup article detailing the highlights, and only releasing that article when they've finalized the document that will hit the printers. No room for false information then.
pm713 wrote: So you'd prefer they did nothing? I'm glad they're at least trying.
I'd prefer they
1) Were competent to begin with - it is literally the job of the rules team to write rules. They shouldn't require us to tell them that Celestians are rubbish.
2) Communicated meaningful information. We learn nothing from this 'article'.
Out of the options available we have the best one and while they haven't said much it's not like they can tell us everything they think of.
Tyel wrote: Seemed like a reasonable article to me.
People don't like AoF being random. Okay, they can make them guaranteed, but probably expect them to be nerfed in some way.
People don't like the Exorcist. Okay - I don't know here, I think they are just wrong. Its a D6-dark lance tank with T8 and a 6++ (buffable) save for just 125 points. Yes you can roll a 1 and thats bad. You can also roll a 6 and its a bit good. If they were to make it always 4 shots, compare it to a quad-las Pred, costing approximately 50% more points with far weaker defensive stats. I realise a Pred is dreadful - but seriously. I can't really see why now you wouldn't always have 3 exorcists in a sisters list.
And yes, Celestians are currently a bit pointless. I'd have thought they were obviously on the table for an overhaul if/when they get new models. I can't believe they are going to go "here's a kit, use it to make sisters, celestians, dominions and retributors, because thats what we came up with in 2nd or 3rd edition and we are not changing it now".
Ha! Like they could nerf AoF more than they already did! That's funny. Any more nerfed, and we might as well not have the rules! What, +1" to move instead! Reroll 6's to hit! Cause a mortal wound to your own model if you fail the heal roll!
Tyel wrote: Seemed like a reasonable article to me.
People don't like AoF being random. Okay, they can make them guaranteed, but probably expect them to be nerfed in some way.
People don't like the Exorcist. Okay - I don't know here, I think they are just wrong. Its a D6-dark lance tank with T8 and a 6++ (buffable) save for just 125 points. Yes you can roll a 1 and thats bad. You can also roll a 6 and its a bit good. If they were to make it always 4 shots, compare it to a quad-las Pred, costing approximately 50% more points with far weaker defensive stats. I realise a Pred is dreadful - but seriously. I can't really see why now you wouldn't always have 3 exorcists in a sisters list.
And yes, Celestians are currently a bit pointless. I'd have thought they were obviously on the table for an overhaul if/when they get new models. I can't believe they are going to go "here's a kit, use it to make sisters, celestians, dominions and retributors, because thats what we came up with in 2nd or 3rd edition and we are not changing it now".
Ha! Like they could nerf AoF more than they already did! That's funny. Any more nerfed, and we might as well not have the rules! What, +1" to move instead! Reroll 6's to hit! Cause a mortal wound to your own model if you fail the heal roll!
Careful, that sounds like a challenge GW might just accept.
Not perfect, but pretty close. I'm definitely liking what I'm seeing. GW going to keep me broke post-Chaos releases. Luckily I have a bunch of metals already, so I won't have to buy as much as I would otherwise, just enough to reinforce what I am low on.
I'd guess the ruined column is a base for a Seraphim? I really like that.
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote: Looks quite promising! Just a tad bothered, that details look
A bit too chunky
They're close-ups of 3d renders that have been blown up to at least 3x the size that they will be when they're printed. Once they're in plastic, they'll look impressively intricate as all of GW's latest models.
The different sizes of rosary beads is something that the past designers would have laughed at as impossible if you'd tasked them with it. Now? A couple button clicks and they can make it a reality. Truly impressive work.
Can't wait to see the full characters that all these bits get equipped to!
Irbis wrote: What is that, chest plate without certain controversial bit? Did warp freeze over?
It's just how the model assemble Irbis. The “controversial bits” will be part of another piece and will poke out of the hole on the piece displayed.
I love all of it, I love the small shields on the side of the HQ armor, I really love the flying pulpit which is 100% in the right tone, but that backpack still won't be as ostentatious as the 2nd edition canoness with HUGE brasero on top backpack ^^.
Awesome still.
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote: Looks quite promising! Just a tad bothered, that details look
A bit too chunky
They're close-ups of 3d renders that have been blown up to at least 3x the size that they will be when they're printed. Once they're in plastic, they'll look impressively intricate as all of GW's latest models.
The different sizes of rosary beads is something that the past designers would have laughed at as impossible if you'd tasked them with it. Now? A couple button clicks and they can make it a reality. Truly impressive work.
Can't wait to see the full characters that all these bits get equipped to!
Look at the pigeon’s wings and you shall not unsee! 4 feathers per wing is something that has been beaten in other GW’s minis, as far as I know (dark eldar birds, even if you say, that they are 3x the size)
As a person, who has worked with 3D printed miniature masters and their casts, Im certain, GW can go sharper yet
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote: Looks quite promising! Just a tad bothered, that details look
A bit too chunky
They're close-ups of 3d renders that have been blown up to at least 3x the size that they will be when they're printed. Once they're in plastic, they'll look impressively intricate as all of GW's latest models.
The different sizes of rosary beads is something that the past designers would have laughed at as impossible if you'd tasked them with it. Now? A couple button clicks and they can make it a reality. Truly impressive work.
Can't wait to see the full characters that all these bits get equipped to!
Look at the pigeon’s wings and you shall not unsee! 4 feathers per wing is something that has been beaten in other GW’s minis, as far as I know (dark eldar birds, even if you say, that they are 3x the size)
As a person, who has worked with 3D printed miniature masters and their casts, Im certain, GW can go sharper yet
Malifaux’s plastics are pretty damn sharp in terms of detail. Defiantly more so, than renders presented in the news update of SoB.
And GW has wayyy more funds, than Wyrd.
The two different plug types at the ends of the cables peeking out from behind the end of the toilet paper roll hint that this backpack could be for some kind of Sororitas Tech-Priest type unit.
It travels the land, seeking out those in need of its services. Those lost and damned fools who did not check the roll before they committed to their business and find themselves trapped purgatory.
The thingy on the backpack with the chainsword? That's a graffiti template if ever I saw one. I guess now we know how you become a Repentia.
Stuff looks nice enough to me, with the exception of the floaty boombox. I know the Ecclesiarchy is rich and if anyone can afford anti-grav tech it's them, but I would have preferred if it defied gravity the old-fashioned way: by being mounted on a stick.
Geifer wrote: I know the Ecclesiarchy is rich and if anyone can afford anti-grav tech it's them, but I would have preferred if it defied gravity the old-fashioned way: by being mounted on a stick.
They said they are for characters, but they are perfect for Sister Superiors who currently often have Bolter, Bolt Pistol, and CC Weapon modeled on them one way or another.
Compare it to the other torso piece also shown. The first one is just the “corset” armour over the stomach, except that one is styled like a rigid cuirass, not the more flexible look of the standard Battle Sisters armour.
Many of the KDM females are cut in pieces the same way: Stomach/Chest area in one piece and the NSFW bits as separate pieces. To avoid undercuts, I presume.
I painted Celestine and Friends assembled, but I'm hoping to mass produce plastic squads in pieces. These renders look like that will be possible (separate heads, etc.).
Melissia wrote: Yeah, hoping to pick up numerous boxes on release.
I suspect most of your fellow Dakka veterans didn't doubt that for a second.
I really like the chainsword on the back and think that's a cool design cue. I wish more marine sprues had that option built in although obviously you can convert it to some degree yourself.
Melissia wrote: Yeah, hoping to pick up numerous boxes on release.
I suspect most of your fellow Dakka veterans didn't doubt that for a second.
I really like the chainsword on the back and think that's a cool design cue. I wish more marine sprues had that option built in although obviously you can convert it to some degree yourself.
Melissia wrote: Yeah, hoping to pick up numerous boxes on release.
The real question is: How will GW go about the first release?
Will it be another 2 army box set (a 'versus' box), with ETB minis and new minis for another faction? Sisters vs Traitor Guard, perhaps? It would be thematic.
Melissia wrote: Yeah, hoping to pick up numerous boxes on release.
The real question is: How will GW go about the first release?
Will it be another 2 army box set (a 'versus' box), with ETB minis and new minis for another faction? Sisters vs Traitor Guard, perhaps? It would be thematic.
With hos big of a deal/PITA the various armor flourishes have traditionally been made out to be on the SOB armor, I doubt we'd see an ETB and a traditional kit as that's alot of effort for a faction that, model-wise, has gotten none for a decade beyond a single resin limited edition mini. A boxed set against some sort of chaos that ties into the Vigilus setting or some other would be a likely choice though to introduce them before selling the single squad kits.
Melissia wrote: Yeah, hoping to pick up numerous boxes on release.
I have several hundred pounds put aside for it
Sitting on almost 100K yen for the same.
Well I've been saying (for 15 years) that if Sisters went plastic I'd build an army, so I really got no choice. Other than paint scheme, I guess.
Not sure how much I'll drop on it, but I'm sure it'll be somewhere north of $500 CAD. It really depends on what drops - like if Rhinos get replaced with Repressors.
Melissia wrote: Yeah, hoping to pick up numerous boxes on release.
I have several hundred pounds put aside for it
Sitting on almost 100K yen for the same.
GW announced them too late. I blew my Sisters slush fund on Fallout Wasteland Warfare.
There's precious little chance that I won't buy plastic Sisters, but it'll certainly happen at a much more leisurely pace than it could have if GW hadn't been sitting on its hands all these years. Not a big loss, though, since I don't play 8th ed anyway.
Caveat:: if they botch Repentia badly that might be too disheartening. I used to love playing my army half of which was comprised of Repentia.
Melissia wrote: Yeah, hoping to pick up numerous boxes on release.
I have several hundred pounds put aside for it
Sitting on almost 100K yen for the same.
GW announced them too late. I blew my Sisters slush fund on Fallout Wasteland Warfare.
There's precious little chance that I won't buy plastic Sisters, but it'll certainly happen at a much more leisurely pace than it could have if GW hadn't been sitting on its hands all these years. Not a big loss, though, since I don't play 8th ed anyway.
Caveat:: if they botch Repentia badly that might be too disheartening. I used to love playing my army half of which was comprised of Repentia.
If I understand current GW prices correctly I'm just gonna blow up a whole month of salary on plastic crack, no big deal .
Given the length of the sword, the odd angle at which it's canted, and the fact that the scabbard is riding so high up on the backpack, how the heck are they expected to draw the sword out of its sheath?
Given the length of the sword, the odd angle at which it's canted, and the fact that the scabbard is riding so high up on the backpack, how the heck are they expected to draw the sword out of its sheath?
Hopefully it looks better on the model.
Presumably it's just stowed for march or riding in a transport.
Given the length of the sword, the odd angle at which it's canted, and the fact that the scabbard is riding so high up on the backpack, how the heck are they expected to draw the sword out of its sheath?
Hopefully it looks better on the model.
Presumably it's just stowed for march or riding in a transport.
I can buy that argument, but in transport or on a forced march isn't how most of our models spend their time. Since this is likely to be one of a select few options, a lot of sisters are going to be running around on the game table with their swords inconveniently out of reach. I don't really care; I just think it's odd.
I can buy that argument, but in transport or on a forced march isn't how most of our models spend their time. Since this is likely to be one of a select few options, a lot of sisters are going to be running around on the game table with their swords inconveniently out of reach. I don't really care; I just think it's odd.
Practical concerns about molding the piece is probably the issue. Most space marine combat knives aren't exactly well placed, though Lieutenant Lots'o'Knives is an exception.
If I was designing a 'sheath' for a chainsword, it would just cover the exposed chain and have a quick release - most of the chainsword is already covered by design!
Sure, you're faith is your armour, but why not wear the helmet the God-Emperor provided you?
Having the chainsword in an odd place is not surprising to me.
The recent Traitor releases have increased my level of excitement for this release. The details and design elements have been pretty cool* I hope that when we see the redesigned Arcoflagellents, Repentia, etc they will be fantastic.
I can buy that argument, but in transport or on a forced march isn't how most of our models spend their time. Since this is likely to be one of a select few options, a lot of sisters are going to be running around on the game table with their swords inconveniently out of reach. I don't really care; I just think it's odd.
Don't worry. Once the Sisters wide range of tactical rocks/mobile terrain for there characters to stand on is revealed, an awkwardly placed chainsword will soon be forgotten about
Albertorius wrote: Yep, but the MkIII sprue has actual stowed chainswords. Like, a lot:
not quite a perfect analogy, though - SM equipment mag locks to their armor and so they can stow stuff wherever is handy; whereas the SOB chainsword clearly has a traditional sheath and so needs a significant draw length.
I'm not concerned either way, it looks cool and that's my only concern.
I haven't yet set aside cash for this but I did something even more important: I have a empty display shelf for Sisters, labeled future SOB.
Soul Samurai wrote: Maybe the whole sheath detaches from the armour, then they draw it (and probably discard the sheath) once they are holding it in front of them?
I'm thinking a control in the handle of the sword causes the sheath to simply pop open.
The two different plug types at the ends of the cables peeking out from behind the end of the toilet paper roll hint that this backpack could be for some kind of Sororitas Tech-Priest type unit.
You can see it’s not a backpack from the flat ‘glue to a base’ element at the bottom. I make it out to be a floating lectern with speakers.
The two different plug types at the ends of the cables peeking out from behind the end of the toilet paper roll hint that this backpack could be for some kind of Sororitas Tech-Priest type unit.
You can see it’s not a backpack from the flat ‘glue to a base’ element at the bottom. I make it out to be a floating lectern with speakers.
The two different plug types at the ends of the cables peeking out from behind the end of the toilet paper roll hint that this backpack could be for some kind of Sororitas Tech-Priest type unit.
You can see it’s not a backpack from the flat ‘glue to a base’ element at the bottom. I make it out to be a floating lectern with speakers.
Looks like a floating pulpit to me.
I wonder if this may mean that we get the Dialogus back in this?
Ouze wrote: not quite a perfect analogy, though - SM equipment mag locks to their armor and so they can stow stuff wherever is handy; whereas the SOB chainsword clearly has a traditional sheath and so needs a significant draw length.
Er... those chainswords have very clearly molded leather straps with buttons, you know.
Not exactly a maglock... also, IIRC power armor was mostly ceramite, wasn't it? Not exactly very magnetic, that.
Soul Samurai wrote: Maybe the whole sheath detaches from the armour, then they draw it (and probably discard the sheath) once they are holding it in front of them?
I'm thinking a control in the handle of the sword causes the sheath to simply pop open.
You faithless heathens, the Sister just pray that she have the sword unsheathed and Lo, she has the sword in her hand, ready to cut heretics into small pieces of gore!
Soul Samurai wrote: Maybe the whole sheath detaches from the armour, then they draw it (and probably discard the sheath) once they are holding it in front of them?
I'm thinking a control in the handle of the sword causes the sheath to simply pop open.
Soul Samurai wrote: Maybe the whole sheath detaches from the armour, then they draw it (and probably discard the sheath) once they are holding it in front of them?
I'm thinking a control in the handle of the sword causes the sheath to simply pop open.
From the Community Page. I guess they knew that April Fool's "jokes" about Sororitas would be popular this year...
One of the most enduring images of the Adepta Sororitas is that of their winged Seraphim swooping into battle, bolt pistols blazing. The Seraphim have always been portrayed as angelic, holy warriors, and the new miniature captures one such Battle Sister perfectly…
Amazing, huh? Advances in miniatures design technology have enabled us to realise the Seraphim in an even more dynamic way than before. The cinematic pose displayed by this miniature is just a sign of things to come!
Many of the design cues for the Seraphim miniature have been taken from the Geminae Superia – the sisters Genevieve and Eleanor – who accompany Celestine, the Living Saint. After all, as protectors of a divine being, the Geminae Superia are perhaps the finest exemplars of what it means to be members of the Adepta Sororitas.
The most notable feature of the Seraphim has always been the stylised hollow wings that serve as the exhaust vents for their ornate jump packs. The design of these jump packs was updated a few years ago for the Geminae Superia, and this has been rolled out to the new Seraphim. The only significant difference between them is that the Seraphim have four ‘feather’ vents on each wing instead of the five that feature on the jump packs of the Geminae Superia.
Want to own this miniature for yourself? How about a whole army of them? If you read all about the exciting reveals in our Warhammer Preview at AdeptiCon last week, you’ll be aware that by taking part in the Big Community Survey, you will be in with a chance to win an entire (brand-new) Adepta Sororitas army! How cool is that?! Be sure to check back on the 15th of April to join in the survey (don’t worry, we’ll remind you nearer the time).
One of the most interesting parts of seeing these renders, for me at least, is trying to divine the cuts and where the pieces separate to go onto the sprues.
Looks like the pauldron/gorget is two separate pieces and also separate to the torso here.
I'm very happy to read that the regular Seraphim only have four vents. I thought the twins' backpacks were too wide.
Mr_Rose wrote: One of the most interesting parts of seeing these renders, for me at least, is trying to divine the cuts and where the pieces separate to go onto the sprues.
Looks like the pauldron/gorget is two separate pieces and also separate to the torso here.
This bulletin show a very nice miniature, no doubt… but also very very much like I expected to be, so not really informative. But nice model I like it!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Casualty wrote: I like the studs on the corsetty bit, it's clever.
It's already there for basic sisters and seraphim too iirc.
Yeah, you really have to figure that the basic sisters/seraphim will be “the metal models, but dynamically posed and customisable” and that’s fine; I will doubtless buy at least one of each.
I’m waiting for the innovations to appear though.
Are we going to get a ‘postulate’ unit (new recruits, just started their training) to oppose the veteran Celestians?
Are the Celestians going to get something like bolter discipline as a companion to the Seraphim’s dual wielding?
Will the Repressor come back?
What I really want to know, though, is if they will receive army-wide bonuses vs. Chaos or daemons? Something that keys off or affects the bolter-melta-flamer trinity…
I would also guess, that all the stuff Sisters already have will just become “plastic and more dynamic”, and I’m not only fine with it, I’ll be happy, if that’s the case. Multipart is another new quality I’m anticipating!
It would be surprising if we are not to get any new fanatic/crazy/new variant stuff.
One thing that really intrigues me is how GW will handle the Sisters armoured assets. Wil the Immolator and Exorcist continue to be additions to the existing Rhino kit or could they get something more unique? Maybe a Ministorum pattern Rhino, or something new that has a similar model footprint and could be used as the basis for other units?
Geifer wrote: I'm very happy to read that the regular Seraphim only have four vents. I thought the twins' backpacks were too wide.
Mr_Rose wrote: One of the most interesting parts of seeing these renders, for me at least, is trying to divine the cuts and where the pieces separate to go onto the sprues.
Looks like the pauldron/gorget is two separate pieces and also separate to the torso here.
Big fan of jigsaws, eh?
Come on...everyone lots plastic glue jigsaw puzzles.
Sersi wrote: So, are we thinking flight bases or scenic bases for mounting Seraphim?
Given the trends (Gemini, AoS ghost things, lots of others)... scenic.
Which admittedly is better than flight bases pretty much always, but I haven't been particularly happy or impressed with weird flimsy strands in the shape of fire or scrolls or whatever loosely tying a model to a base. I'd honestly prefer to see good solid boots on the ground, and less wuxia wire-fu style posing.
Flying bases were used in Shadowspear though, and Celestine and Co also use flying bases. And although it's possible that it wasn't added yet, you'd think we'd see some sort of scenic connection on one of the feet. Some ruined masonry or something that would be attached to the base.
GaroRobe wrote: Flying bases were used in Shadowspear though, and Celestine and Co also use flying bases. And although it's possible that it wasn't added yet, you'd think we'd see some sort of scenic connection on one of the feet. Some ruined masonry or something that would be attached to the base.
GaroRobe wrote: Flying bases were used in Shadowspear though
Funny thing is, the Master of Possessions was sculpted with a cloak to lift him off the ground, but he dont fly I suppose the flying primaris just follow the style of every other flying primaris that come with flight stands.
Hopefully seraphim come with sculpted leviation. Harpies for warcry is a recent example of scenic rather than flightstands.
I just hope that GW doesn't repeat the poses too much because lower half of that seriphim render looks very close to the gemini. If they copy the poses of the gemini that will be lazy.
The primarus from shadow spear and the new chaos havocs are the worst offenders of repeat poses. Corvus belli ( makers of the Infinity skermish game ) also use dupilcate poses but they vary up the head and arms to make each figure unique. However when Infinity moved to 3d modeling they somehow fubar'ed the guns of the faction that I play and don't really play it anymore ( the first offenders where when the magazine and box mag of a dmr and an lmg ended up in the handguards on the final model, the new version of the new ariadna scout sniper is a good example)
Since GW loves their super hero flying legs (raised knee, slack other leg) and it features on countless of their models, I wouldn't hold out hope for more than two leg poses on the final kit.
Geifer wrote: Since GW loves their super hero flying legs (raised knee, slack other leg) and it features on countless of their models, I wouldn't hold out hope for more than two leg poses on the final kit.
Sure, thoe if the poses on the final product are like the chaos havocs box (the 2 standing one's Las and Missile are pretty bad on the duplicate poses are bad, not even an attempt to pose the arms diffrently), while I'll still buy them, I will be disappointed
Geifer wrote: Since GW loves their super hero flying legs (raised knee, slack other leg) and it features on countless of their models, I wouldn't hold out hope for more than two leg poses on the final kit.
Geifer wrote: Since GW loves their super hero flying legs (raised knee, slack other leg) and it features on countless of their models, I wouldn't hold out hope for more than two leg poses on the final kit.
Sure, thoe if the poses on the final product are like the chaos havocs box (the 2 standing one's Las and Missile are pretty bad on the duplicate poses are bad, not even an attempt to pose the arms diffrently), while I'll still buy them, I will be disappointed
I'd like to see more, too, but given GW's current design paradigm I'm not optimistic. Maybe Sisters get lucky where others did not. Would be the first time, but I sure wouldn't complain.
Geifer wrote: Since GW loves their super hero flying legs (raised knee, slack other leg) and it features on countless of their models, I wouldn't hold out hope for more than two leg poses on the final kit.
...looks at Suppressor legs...
Let's keep the super hero flying legs.
Luckily I don't think Seraphim are comparable to flying Primaris. The Primaris have those skids (and maybe leg thrusters? I try not to look at those dreadful models) that the Seraphim render lacks. That alone will require different posing, so I think we're safe.
I'm not a fan of flying people in general and I wish GW went back and universally modeled jump troops on the ground, and left the flying part to people's imagination. They're not going to do that of course, but I guess I can still dream.
Geifer wrote: Since GW loves their super hero flying legs (raised knee, slack other leg) and it features on countless of their models, I wouldn't hold out hope for more than two leg poses on the final kit.
Sure, thoe if the poses on the final product are like the chaos havocs box (the 2 standing one's Las and Missile are pretty bad on the duplicate poses are bad, not even an attempt to pose the arms diffrently), while I'll still buy them, I will be disappointed
I'd like to see more, too, but given GW's current design paradigm I'm not optimistic. Maybe Sisters get lucky where others did not. Would be the first time, but I sure wouldn't complain.
Geifer wrote: Since GW loves their super hero flying legs (raised knee, slack other leg) and it features on countless of their models, I wouldn't hold out hope for more than two leg poses on the final kit.
...looks at Suppressor legs...
Let's keep the super hero flying legs.
Luckily I don't think Seraphim are comparable to flying Primaris. The Primaris have those skids (and maybe leg thrusters? I try not to look at those dreadful models) that the Seraphim render lacks. That alone will require different posing, so I think we're safe.
I'm not a fan of flying people in general and I wish GW went back and universally modeled jump troops on the ground, and left the flying part to people's imagination. They're not going to do that of course, but I guess I can still dream.
You mean like the old Seraphim, which aren't on the ground, or Hellions?
Geifer wrote: Since GW loves their super hero flying legs (raised knee, slack other leg) and it features on countless of their models, I wouldn't hold out hope for more than two leg poses on the final kit.
Sure, thoe if the poses on the final product are like the chaos havocs box (the 2 standing one's Las and Missile are pretty bad on the duplicate poses are bad, not even an attempt to pose the arms diffrently), while I'll still buy them, I will be disappointed
I'd like to see more, too, but given GW's current design paradigm I'm not optimistic. Maybe Sisters get lucky where others did not. Would be the first time, but I sure wouldn't complain.
Geifer wrote: Since GW loves their super hero flying legs (raised knee, slack other leg) and it features on countless of their models, I wouldn't hold out hope for more than two leg poses on the final kit.
...looks at Suppressor legs...
Let's keep the super hero flying legs.
Luckily I don't think Seraphim are comparable to flying Primaris. The Primaris have those skids (and maybe leg thrusters? I try not to look at those dreadful models) that the Seraphim render lacks. That alone will require different posing, so I think we're safe.
I'm not a fan of flying people in general and I wish GW went back and universally modeled jump troops on the ground, and left the flying part to people's imagination. They're not going to do that of course, but I guess I can still dream.
You mean like the old Seraphim, which aren't on the ground, or Hellions?
There are no arguments to be won here on a technicality. I'm aware that GW has not consistently given us walking jump troops even back in the good old days.
That doesn't change anything about my preferences, though. And in case you want to get something of practical value out of this instead of just reading what I consider good design, think back to how the plastic Assault Marines added running legs to a growing plastic range that didn't have any yet and thus added more poses and more conversion opportunities across the entire range, much like the later kneeling Devastator did. Sisters are not going to get the biggest range ever simply because they get plastic models for the first time. While a little tougher to kitbash than Marines because of the armor design, think of how much more variety could be added if their pose was not exclusive to a flying unit.
Unfortunately, that assumes GW wants you to do that. 90s GW was all about kitbashes. 20-teens GW has been pretty heavily about limited options, unique-looking kits, and self-contained nearly everything (the only 3 exceptions I can think of are intercessor sergeant upgrades, havoc heavy weapons for regular CSMs, and the confusing choice to give CSM access to thunder hammers more broadly because one pseudo-special character lord model has one).
The Battle Sister Bulletin is back today with a first glimpse at some of the new vehicles that are in development. Before we dive into the details, let’s take a quick look at what we know about the vehicle pool available to the Adepta Sororitas.
Adepta Sororitas Vehicles
The iconic vehicles of the Adepta Sororitas – the Immolator, Exorcist and Rhino – all utilise the ubiquitous Rhino chassis. Some of these vehicles are based upon the Mk I Deimos-pattern Rhino Standard Template Construct (STC) and are ancient in origin. The oldest examples are baroque masterpieces, having been reverently maintained and embellished with additional Ecclesiarchal decorations for millennia.
The Deimos-pattern chassis features a number of characteristics that set it apart from the Mk IIc Mars-pattern Rhino more widely utilised by the Adeptus Astartes. The most notable of these features are the circular side doors that part to either side of the entrance, rather than the rectangular single-panel doors of later designs that yawn open to create a ramp.
Vehicle Details
The new vehicles being designed for the Adepta Sororitas represent the more antiquated Deimos-pattern Rhino STC. As such, they are flanked by the archetypal circular doors, adorned with the symbolic fleur-de-lys of the Adepta Sororitas.
Another feature of the Deimos-pattern Rhino chassis is that its four large exhausts are only partially clad with armour plating, if at all. This open design has enabled the vehicle’s exhausts to be styled in the image of tall braziers, really emphasising the Gothic imagery for which the Adepta Sororitas are renowned.
The level of detail that has been added to each part of the chassis is to give the impression of antiquity – that this is an ancient vehicle upon which many generations of artificers have added embellishments, gilded filigree and holy ornamentation. The side corner of the vehicle features a small shrine ensconced within a peaked arch – a clear sign of the reverential manner with which it has been fashioned by the artisans of the Ecclesiarchy.
Gothic arches are a fundamental Imperial image with which the Adepta Sororitas have always had a strong association. The rear door of the vehicle exemplifies this principle, with two smaller arches set within a larger design in the manner of an ornate stained glass window.
Of course, there is one vehicle available to the Adepta Sororitas that doesn’t utilise a Rhino chassis, due to it being more akin to a mechanised warsuit – the Penitent Engine. We’ll bring you more on this horrific war machine soon but, for now, here’s a sneak preview of a head belonging to an unfortunate soul condemned to seek bloody redemption in battle by ‘piloting’ a Penitent Engine.
That’s it for this week. We’ll be back in a fortnight for another look at what lies in store for the Adepta Sororitas. Until then, let us know your favourite vehicle in the armoury of the Adepta Sororitas on our Warhammer 40,000 Facebook page.
so... long term theory here, as more and more primaris amrines become a thing, the old school rhino is gonna be retired, and chaos will get a new rhino based off the Demios
Tyranid Horde wrote: Now if they made the Deimos pattern available for more than just sisters I'd be buying them. Lots of detail, hopefully it holds up when scaled down.
Interesting. I was wondering if GW was going to make new Rhinos for Sisters, and making Deimos pattern Rhinos lets them keep using the old Mars pattern Rhino mold in use. I imagine the base sprues won't have sisters parts so they can sell Deimos pattern Rhinos to SM players. It makes me wonder how many parts the Sisters kit will have. Presumably one sprue for all the fancy sisters bolt-ons, and a second depending on the variant?
I was affraid at first that the new rhinos would look like the old v1 rhinos, with less details and not looking as good imo when I saw this:
Spoiler:
but it really seems like it will keep the shame shape as the new rhinos, as evidenced by this part:
Spoiler:
which is very similar to what the v2 rhino look, except with more details!
It seems the reference to the Deimos pattern is only related to having the round doors, which visually are still pretty close to the current kit because of the round Sororitas emblem on the current rhino. And also the new exhauts, which look DAMN FINE!!! Brutal, and baroque, like Sisters should!
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: I was affraid at first that the new rhinos would look like the old v1 rhinos, with less details and not looking as good imo when I saw this:
Spoiler:
but it really seems like it will keep the shame shape as the new rhinos, as evidenced by this part:
Spoiler:
which is very similar to what the v2 rhino look, except with more details!
It seems the reference to the Deimos pattern is only related to having the round doors, which visually are still pretty close to the current kit because of the round Sororitas emblem on the current rhino. And also the new exhauts, which look DAMN FINE!!! Brutal, and baroque, like Sisters should!
That adjustment happened awhile ago- modern Deimos Rhinos share the same basic chassis as the Mars pattern.
I don't like the front plate or the top guns/hatches/thingies with bolters. Not found of the dozer blade either. And I really hope they keep and expand on the splendid top of the current rhino rather than the ugly flat top of the ugly astartes rhino.
Damn, those guys have no sense of style! It feels like they just don't have any budget to put extra blingies on their rides lol.
I don't like the front plate or the top guns/hatches/thingies with bolters. Not found of the dozer blade either. And I really hope they keep and expand on the splendid top of the current rhino rather than the ugly flat top of the ugly astartes rhino.
Damn, those guys have no sense of style! It feels like they just don't have any budget to put extra blingies on their rides lol.
Judging by that side plate we're getting something similar to the FW Deimos pattern stuff rather than original. That makes me wonder if they'll be using current Rhino casts with sisters add-ons, but that would force them to make chaos specific Deimos upgrade sprues as well. Far better economy making brand new Deimos casts that can be used by SM&CSM as-is and have separate Sisters add-on sprues. Hopefully we'll see Deimos predator parts too? Who knows?
Looking at that render of the side door and the exhaust, that would suggest that the side panels will be different at the very least. Possibly it'll be in multiple parts, if that front wing panel is indeed a separate component.
Since the Rhino outer side panels are split amongst the two hull sprues, that would suggest an entirely new kit, not just a partial replacement of the existing Rhino kit.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: I don't think marines are going to get Deimos rhinos.
I think it'll be a Sisters exclusive. But we'll see.
seems like a wasted oppertunity if you ask me,even if we assume GW's plan is to completely switch to Primaris,chaos still uses Rhinos so it'd be a waste not to sell them the new kit, one based on a pattern more common in the heresy era at that
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: I don't think marines are going to get Deimos rhinos.
I think it'll be a Sisters exclusive. But we'll see.
Would be waste of opportunity though. Deimos pattern is one marines have used and still use(albeit in fewer numbers than during great crusade when it was the standard pattern).
Hopefully sister specific details are at least easy to remove.
Regarding the Deimos-pattern Rhinos, FW produces them for 30k. Looks like it might be coming back in plastic. It would be cool to see them tooled with the new technology.
From the terms and conditions of the competition for doing the survey, looks like the sisters will be £35 for a squad.
This year, as a show of thanks for your feedback, one lucky participant will win* a plastic Sisters of Battle army once they’re ready for release! 10 more will win themselves a squad of the new plastic Battle Sisters.
12) The prizes will be an army of new Adepta Sororitas plastic miniatures. The prizes would include a grand prize worth £250 and 10 prizes worth £35 (grand prize ca. AUD 468 and 10 prizes at AUD 65). The prize value of the 11 prizes are: GBP £600 (ca. AUD 1127) and they will be dispatched to the customer at the time of their worldwide release later this year. The currency and exact value of each prize will vary depending on the countries of residence of the winners.
ImAGeek wrote: From the terms and conditions of the competition for doing the survey, looks like the sisters will be £35 for a squad.
This year, as a show of thanks for your feedback, one lucky participant will win* a plastic Sisters of Battle army once they’re ready for release! 10 more will win themselves a squad of the new plastic Battle Sisters.
12) The prizes will be an army of new Adepta Sororitas plastic miniatures. The prizes would include a grand prize worth £250 and 10 prizes worth £35 (grand prize ca. AUD 468 and 10 prizes at AUD 65). The prize value of the 11 prizes are: GBP £600 (ca. AUD 1127) and they will be dispatched to the customer at the time of their worldwide release later this year. The currency and exact value of each prize will vary depending on the countries of residence of the winners.
Check the dates for claiming as well, does it suggest a release window?
"The prizes must be claimed before 29th July 2019."
ImAGeek wrote: From the terms and conditions of the competition for doing the survey, looks like the sisters will be £35 for a squad.
This year, as a show of thanks for your feedback, one lucky participant will win* a plastic Sisters of Battle army once they’re ready for release! 10 more will win themselves a squad of the new plastic Battle Sisters.
12) The prizes will be an army of new Adepta Sororitas plastic miniatures. The prizes would include a grand prize worth £250 and 10 prizes worth £35 (grand prize ca. AUD 468 and 10 prizes at AUD 65). The prize value of the 11 prizes are: GBP £600 (ca. AUD 1127) and they will be dispatched to the customer at the time of their worldwide release later this year. The currency and exact value of each prize will vary depending on the countries of residence of the winners.
Check the dates for claiming as well, does it suggest a release window?
"The prizes must be claimed before 29th July 2019."
ImAGeek wrote: From the terms and conditions of the competition for doing the survey, looks like the sisters will be £35 for a squad.
This year, as a show of thanks for your feedback, one lucky participant will win* a plastic Sisters of Battle army once they’re ready for release! 10 more will win themselves a squad of the new plastic Battle Sisters.
12) The prizes will be an army of new Adepta Sororitas plastic miniatures. The prizes would include a grand prize worth £250 and 10 prizes worth £35 (grand prize ca. AUD 468 and 10 prizes at AUD 65). The prize value of the 11 prizes are: GBP £600 (ca. AUD 1127) and they will be dispatched to the customer at the time of their worldwide release later this year. The currency and exact value of each prize will vary depending on the countries of residence of the winners.
Check the dates for claiming as well, does it suggest a release window?
"The prizes must be claimed before 29th July 2019."
Could be or just date they need to contact them to verify it to fulfil some legal hoop and actual delivery is later.
ImAGeek wrote: From the terms and conditions of the competition for doing the survey, looks like the sisters will be £35 for a squad.
This year, as a show of thanks for your feedback, one lucky participant will win* a plastic Sisters of Battle army once they’re ready for release! 10 more will win themselves a squad of the new plastic Battle Sisters.
12) The prizes will be an army of new Adepta Sororitas plastic miniatures. The prizes would include a grand prize worth £250 and 10 prizes worth £35 (grand prize ca. AUD 468 and 10 prizes at AUD 65). The prize value of the 11 prizes are: GBP £600 (ca. AUD 1127) and they will be dispatched to the customer at the time of their worldwide release later this year. The currency and exact value of each prize will vary depending on the countries of residence of the winners.
Check the dates for claiming as well, does it suggest a release window?
"The prizes must be claimed before 29th July 2019."
Could be or just date they need to contact them to verify it to fulfil some legal hoop and actual delivery is later.
Maybe, but "Oh hey, you won something that is out in 4 months, sit tight and hope we dont forget" isn't the best plan in the world, usually youd expect to follow up the competition with a prize in closer proximity.
I really like what they are after with those side-plates. On my old Sisters Rhinos I got extra of the metal Exorcist plates to put on them, in addition to the FW doors and Inquisition top door (before they discontinued doing bitz orders).
ImAGeek wrote: From the terms and conditions of the competition for doing the survey, looks like the sisters will be £35 for a squad.
This year, as a show of thanks for your feedback, one lucky participant will win* a plastic Sisters of Battle army once they’re ready for release! 10 more will win themselves a squad of the new plastic Battle Sisters.
12) The prizes will be an army of new Adepta Sororitas plastic miniatures. The prizes would include a grand prize worth £250 and 10 prizes worth £35 (grand prize ca. AUD 468 and 10 prizes at AUD 65). The prize value of the 11 prizes are: GBP £600 (ca. AUD 1127) and they will be dispatched to the customer at the time of their worldwide release later this year. The currency and exact value of each prize will vary depending on the countries of residence of the winners.
Check the dates for claiming as well, does it suggest a release window?
"The prizes must be claimed before 29th July 2019."
Could be or just date they need to contact them to verify it to fulfil some legal hoop and actual delivery is later.
In fact that's the reward claim date, it's written a bit earlier that the prize will be granted with the final release
From part 12.
*The prize value of the 11 prizes are: GBP £600 (ca. AUD 1127)and they will be dispatched to the customer at the time of their worldwide release later this year.*
If they're clever and make the Deimos Rhino with optional bits to work as a normal Rhino (or follow it with an HH era plastic version?) I'd be all over that. Been mulling around a 2nd edition style Space Wolf retro-force and I'd absolutely buy some Deimos pattern stuff (price dependent).
Why do you care what other players want? Why put some kind of negative spin on something because people are excited by the idea of a plastic Deimos pattern rhino chassis?
I had a feeling that they weren't going to use the current Rhino kit. That kit has held up for a long time but it does deserve to be updated.
By going with a Deimos pattern, they can update the Rhino kit while making it sisters-specific, probably with a different sprue depending on which version you get (exorcist, immolator, basic, etc), without being shoehorned into using the current frame.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Man Sister get something and all marine players come out saying they want it for marines…
it's not like they're demanding access to a new unit, the Rhino is a a unit extremely common among the adeptus Astartes, and the Demios pattern is noted as being the one in use during the Horus Heresy (which is popular eneugh that GW put out MK3 and MK4 marine kits) people are just saying that if the kit allows for one without sisters icongraphy they might pick some up. and that if it does have built in iconography it's a bit of a lost oppertunity given the new rhino is apt to be pretty popular with sapce marine and especially chaos space marine players.
drbored wrote: I had a feeling that they weren't going to use the current Rhino kit. That kit has held up for a long time but it does deserve to be updated.
By going with a Deimos pattern, they can update the Rhino kit while making it sisters-specific, probably with a different sprue depending on which version you get (exorcist, immolator, basic, etc), without being shoehorned into using the current frame.
It looks largely in the vein of the FW Deimos, so it doesn't look like an update as much as an involved add-on.
drbored wrote: I had a feeling that they weren't going to use the current Rhino kit. That kit has held up for a long time but it does deserve to be updated.
By going with a Deimos pattern, they can update the Rhino kit while making it sisters-specific, probably with a different sprue depending on which version you get (exorcist, immolator, basic, etc), without being shoehorned into using the current frame.
intreastingly eneugh the Demios pattern was more common in the heresy, which I suspect also might be a factor here. if we assume GW's long term plan is to replace standard space marines with primaris, we'll still need to see the old stuff updated for chaos, and chaos should be rights MOSTLY use the older Demios pattern. So this gives GW a starting point for a new Chaos Rhino pattern line
Looking at the renders I imagine the Sisters bling is going to be moulded into the base plates and will be fairly hard to remove. But if it is a new kit and not a conversion sprue for the existing Rhino, then GW would presumably have a non blinged version on file that they used as a base.
Its total wishlisting, but...… A plastic Deimos Rhino and its variants would go really well with a HH supplement for the new version of Apocalypse.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Looking at the renders I imagine the Sisters bling is going to be moulded into the base plates and will be fairly hard to remove. But if it is a new kit and not a conversion sprue for the existing Rhino, then GW would presumably have a non blinged version on file that they used as a base.
Its total wishlisting, but...… A plastic Deimos Rhino and its variants would go really well with a HH supplement for the new version of Apocalypse.
I'd not be too suprised to see a chaos demios rhino the next time GW did something with chaos, cause as you said simple eneugh.
Hopefully GW will make the Deimos in plastic so all of the Heresy vehicles based on it can be made less expensive. Currently the Mars pattern is $37.50 & the Deimos is $59. If they make the sisters kit somewhere in the middle they would probably sell a metric shittonne of them to new players. My concern vehicle wise is how they execute the exorcist, it better be pipiest organ ever.
Love the look of the exhaust, panels would fit right in next to an Exorcist. Not sure what I think of a PenEngine you can't drop and break your foot with... No word on Repressors. Staying Forgeworld or lost all together?
Repressors have been out of production from FW for a while, haven't they? An option for a rhino to mount a heavy flamer and storm bolter would cover the crossover, wouldn't it?
I actually don't like the Deimos pattern compared to the regular pattern; the big difference is the glacis which looks much better on the regular one. In this case, I definitely don't want the regular version replaced, since it looks much better than the HH version.
Also, as a side note, unless the current Rhino pattern was introduced more recently than M36, shouldn't we be using the newer pattern?
I'm actually surprised they're re-doing the tank kits, though. The Immolator is currently a fully plastic kit, I expected them to just pass over it and maybe re-box it. I might buy some new tanks if they look good [though I have more tanks than I can use], or if they're of kinds that I don't already have.
Yeah, not brilliant. Tolerable, if it's 10 models, but obviously less would have been preferable. I'm just glad the army I'm collecting will be 3rd Edition sized. EDIT: Wait, people think 35 quid is a good price? Crikey the Stockholm Syndrome really has set in at this point eh
35 pounds is the standard price for ten man troops boxes in 2019, isn't it? Like Chaos Marines or Primaris. So not really surprising, but of course still good to know.
Just don't expect me to cheer for that kind of price.
I'd say it's a good price if a squad of Sisters is now 15 models for some reason. For 10 I'd use the word tolerable. But I'm not madly happy about another army where everything costs me that much...
How much does 35$ usually translate to in euro? If two boxes are similarly priced in £, does that usually mean they'll get the same price in € or is it sometime different in €?
Yodhrin wrote: Yeah, not brilliant. Tolerable, if it's 10 models, but obviously less would have been preferable. I'm just glad the army I'm collecting will be 3rd Edition sized. EDIT: Wait, people think 35 quid is a good price? Crikey the Stockholm Syndrome really has set in at this point eh
Well I was expecting price hike so them staying at same price as recent 10 man squads was pleasant surprise.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Looking at the renders I imagine the Sisters bling is going to be moulded into the base plates and will be fairly hard to remove. But if it is a new kit and not a conversion sprue for the existing Rhino, then GW would presumably have a non blinged version on file that they used as a base.
Its total wishlisting, but...… A plastic Deimos Rhino and its variants would go really well with a HH supplement for the new version of Apocalypse.
Will be getting at least one or two of the new rhinos- go with my Sheildwolf Sisters vehicles and the older ones.
Be more interesting to have a dedicated Sisters of Silence,Inquisition and Ad Mech versions of the Rhino than pile yet more on more stuff to the bloated Marine ranges.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: How much does 35$ usually translate to in euro? If two boxes are similarly priced in £, does that usually mean they'll get the same price in € or is it sometime different in €?
35 pounds translate to 45€, like the recent Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Terminators.
- 10 Sisters
- 32mm bases
- Weapon options for Squad leader
- Couple of heavy weapons and special weapons
I'll agree with three out of four - not sure whether we'll see a change in base size, though.
What do you think we'll see on the special/heavy front? One of each of the trinity for each slot, if we're lucky?
Well 32mm is bit "if" but I expect that these models are bit bigger which I think translate in having bigger bases.
As for weaponry I expect Storm bolter, Melta and Flamer are available and as for heavier weaponry heavy bolter and either multi-melta or heavy flamer. But I do hope for more options like missile launcher and such. .
I'll agree with three out of four - not sure whether we'll see a change in base size, though.
I would be surprised if we do not, given that Sisters of Silence are on 32mm bases. It's possible that they will be on 25mm bases, but I think GW is moving towards 32s for as much as they realistically can.
What do you think we'll see on the special/heavy front? One of each of the trinity for each slot, if we're lucky?
Flamer, Melta, some kind of new specialized boltgun that is used as a special slot(maybe the crossbow combi bolter?)
Heavy Bolter, Multimelta, Heavy Flamer.
the rhino's looks aces, the heritek on the PE head looks fantastic and will fit right in in a Dark Mechanicum army. I can't wait for the Sisters to be released. I really regerts selling my SoB army all those years ago here on Dakka.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Also, as a side note, unless the current Rhino pattern was introduced more recently than M36, shouldn't we be using the newer pattern?
This is a very good point. There's no fluff reason Sisters should be using Heresy era equipment. But there is a fluff reason for Chaos to use it.
This all makes sense by the logic:
1. When the current SM Rhino is discontinued it will not be replaced. Primaris will all use floaty tanks.
2. This means they need a replacement Rhino for Chaos, Sisters and maybe HH.
3. The existing Rhino was done before they started using CAD for everything so there are no digital assets for it. The new one will need to be done from scratch.
4. The new Chaos Rhino will be based on the Deimos chassis.
5. They're not redoing the Mk2c chassis just for Sisters.
6. The digital assets for a Deimos chassis will be used as a base for both Chaos and Sisters.
Once Chaos and Sisters have their Rhino replacements there's no reason to keep the Mk2c, so if you need them for your oldmarine army or whatever you should plan accordingly.
Once Chaos and Sisters have their Rhino replacements there's no reason to keep the Mk2c, so if you need them for your oldmarine army or whatever you should plan accordingly.
I think what's more likely is that the older pattern will be available for armies like Sisters, Chaos (and Marines if they really want it) which will open the door for a revamped Mk2C/Razorback kit which will be primarily a Razorback that can be built as a Rhino, but will be geared towards making a Razorback will all sorts of bells and whistles.
I'm getting a bit worried about the new plastic Sisters of Battle.
New plastic kits, yes, but so far, it all seems to be just an update of the Sisters of Battle. The game play form CA2018 feels much like 6th/7th edition. I'm really starting to wonder if there will be actual new models and rules, or just a refresh of Sisters of Battle for 8th ed.
Tamwulf wrote: I'm getting a bit worried about the new plastic Sisters of Battle.
New plastic kits, yes, but so far, it all seems to be just an update of the Sisters of Battle. The game play form CA2018 feels much like 6th/7th edition. I'm really starting to wonder if there will be actual new models and rules, or just a refresh of Sisters of Battle for 8th ed.
they probably don't want to spoil anything just yet
Flamer, Melta, some kind of new specialized boltgun that is used as a special slot(maybe the crossbow combi bolter?)
Heavy Bolter, Multimelta, Heavy Flamer.
Really depends if they're doing separate Dominion/Retributor kits. If they aren't, then probably 2 of each special and heavy.
Tamwulf wrote: I'm getting a bit worried about the new plastic Sisters of Battle.
New plastic kits, yes, but so far, it all seems to be just an update of the Sisters of Battle. The game play form CA2018 feels much like 6th/7th edition. I'm really starting to wonder if there will be actual new models and rules, or just a refresh of Sisters of Battle for 8th ed.
even if there aren't actually new things, you can expect new options in the plastic to enchourage sisters players to upgrade. expecting a ton of new stuff though strikes me as unlikely. even if we lowball our guesses sisters are gonna have a huuuge release just covering the bases already. Let's look at what we're likely to get bare minimum.
1: Cannoness Blisterpack
2: Battlesister Squad
3: Retributor Squad
4: Serapham Squad
5: Pentiant Engine
6: Rhino/Immolator/Eortionist (if they're decked out with bling I'm expecting one box but we could get up to 3 seperate kits for this)
I left off a dominion Squad as my bet is that we'll get 4 or 5 special weapons in the battlesister squad box and be expected to use that for them, but still bare minimum we're proably looking at a half dozen kits. and if the past is anything to go by we'll get more as GW'll put out a few HQ packs, and truthfully GW's design philophesy these days seems to be pretty character heavy so I expect to see a few new characters.
my guess is all told sisters will get around nine to a full dozen new kits. possiably more. If you use the death guard as an example they got a full dozen kits.
even if there aren't actually new things, you can expect new options in the plastic to enchourage sisters players to upgrade. expecting a ton of new stuff though strikes me as unlikely. even if we lowball our guesses sisters are gonna have a huuuge release just covering the bases already. Let's look at what we're likely to get bare minimum.
1: Cannoness Blisterpack
2: Battlesister Squad
3: Retributor Squad
4: Serapham Squad
5: Pentiant Engine
6: Rhino/Immolator/Eortionist (if they're decked out with bling I'm expecting one box but we could get up to 3 seperate kits for this)
I left off a dominion Squad as my bet is that we'll get 4 or 5 special weapons in the battlesister squad box and be expected to use that for them, but still bare minimum we're proably looking at a half dozen kits. and if the past is anything to go by we'll get more as GW'll put out a few HQ packs, and truthfully GW's design philophesy these days seems to be pretty character heavy so I expect to see a few new characters.
my guess is all told sisters will get around nine to a full dozen new kits. possiably more. If you use the death guard as an example they got a full dozen kits.
Well there's going to be the promotional model based on the artwork - already rendered.
I am really wondering how much weaponry they are going to have for Sisters. Bolters, anything flame related and meltas sure but is there going to be anything punchier like plasma or rarer kind like gravi. And not to mention melee weaponry!
I could atleast see Combi-bolters being available to sisters in general.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Also, as a side note, unless the current Rhino pattern was introduced more recently than M36, shouldn't we be using the newer pattern?
This is a very good point. There's no fluff reason Sisters should be using Heresy era equipment. But there is a fluff reason for Chaos to use it.
This all makes sense by the logic:
1. When the current SM Rhino is discontinued it will not be replaced. Primaris will all use floaty tanks.
2. This means they need a replacement Rhino for Chaos, Sisters and maybe HH.
3. The existing Rhino was done before they started using CAD for everything so there are no digital assets for it. The new one will need to be done from scratch.
4. The new Chaos Rhino will be based on the Deimos chassis.
5. They're not redoing the Mk2c chassis just for Sisters.
6. The digital assets for a Deimos chassis will be used as a base for both Chaos and Sisters.
Once Chaos and Sisters have their Rhino replacements there's no reason to keep the Mk2c, so if you need them for your oldmarine army or whatever you should plan accordingly.
This. It has less to do with fluff reasons (which GW can retcon any time they like) and more to do with their stock of plastic models and how to design them efficiently.
I look forward to seeing the Chaos rhino that's based on this chassis. The proof will be when the Sisters rhino comes out and the frame of the tank is very basic and all of the sisters-specific stuff is on a separate sprue.
Never know, might get a start collecting kit with how small the original range was. But if they did I imagine it would include the penitent engine or like a small repentia squad instead of the rhino.
Sotahullu wrote: I am really wondering how much weaponry they are going to have for Sisters. Bolters, anything flame related and meltas sure but is there going to be anything punchier like plasma or rarer kind like gravi. And not to mention melee weaponry!
I could atleast see Combi-bolters being available to sisters in general.
I'd guess 9 bolters, melee options for the superior (maul, sword, chainsword), pistol options for superior (bolt, plasma, hand flamer), special weapon mix- melta, flamer, storm bolter, heavy weapons mix- heavy bolter, heavy flamer, multimelta.
Maybe a celestian kit with more melee options and combi bolter loadout.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Also, as a side note, unless the current Rhino pattern was introduced more recently than M36, shouldn't we be using the newer pattern?
This is a very good point. There's no fluff reason Sisters should be using Heresy era equipment. But there is a fluff reason for Chaos to use it.
This all makes sense by the logic:
1. When the current SM Rhino is discontinued it will not be replaced. Primaris will all use floaty tanks.
2. This means they need a replacement Rhino for Chaos, Sisters and maybe HH.
3. The existing Rhino was done before they started using CAD for everything so there are no digital assets for it. The new one will need to be done from scratch.
4. The new Chaos Rhino will be based on the Deimos chassis.
5. They're not redoing the Mk2c chassis just for Sisters.
6. The digital assets for a Deimos chassis will be used as a base for both Chaos and Sisters.
Once Chaos and Sisters have their Rhino replacements there's no reason to keep the Mk2c, so if you need them for your oldmarine army or whatever you should plan accordingly.
This. It has less to do with fluff reasons (which GW can retcon any time they like) and more to do with their stock of plastic models and how to design them efficiently.
I look forward to seeing the Chaos rhino that's based on this chassis. The proof will be when the Sisters rhino comes out and the frame of the tank is very basic and all of the sisters-specific stuff is on a separate sprue.
The Sisters stuff doesn't even necessarily need to come on a separate sprue for this strategy to make sense. Since it's all done digitally they can reuse the files even if they don't reuse the sprues. It still saves them work.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Also, as a side note, unless the current Rhino pattern was introduced more recently than M36, shouldn't we be using the newer pattern?
This is a very good point. There's no fluff reason Sisters should be using Heresy era equipment. But there is a fluff reason for Chaos to use it.
This all makes sense by the logic:
1. When the current SM Rhino is discontinued it will not be replaced. Primaris will all use floaty tanks.
2. This means they need a replacement Rhino for Chaos, Sisters and maybe HH.
3. The existing Rhino was done before they started using CAD for everything so there are no digital assets for it. The new one will need to be done from scratch.
4. The new Chaos Rhino will be based on the Deimos chassis.
5. They're not redoing the Mk2c chassis just for Sisters.
6. The digital assets for a Deimos chassis will be used as a base for both Chaos and Sisters.
Once Chaos and Sisters have their Rhino replacements there's no reason to keep the Mk2c, so if you need them for your oldmarine army or whatever you should plan accordingly.
This. It has less to do with fluff reasons (which GW can retcon any time they like) and more to do with their stock of plastic models and how to design them efficiently.
I look forward to seeing the Chaos rhino that's based on this chassis. The proof will be when the Sisters rhino comes out and the frame of the tank is very basic and all of the sisters-specific stuff is on a separate sprue.
The Sisters stuff doesn't even necessarily need to come on a separate sprue for this strategy to make sense. Since it's all done digitally they can reuse the files even if they don't reuse the sprues. It still saves them work.
People keep saying this but setting a sprue up for production is still extremely expensive, if not QUITE as expensive as it used to be.
All I know is if the basic sisters squad is 60 bucks for ten there had better be 3 unique sprues in a box like the CSM. That is an expensive pricetag on a core unit.
Thargrim wrote: All I know is if the basic sisters squad is 60 bucks for ten there had better be 3 unique sprues in a box like the CSM. That is an expensive pricetag on a core unit.
Yeah.... guys, talking as a genestealer cult player, be happy your kits are worth more than one point per dollar you're spending on them. I only break that with gear options on my basic troops. Guess what you're all in for.
People keep saying this but setting a sprue up for production is still extremely expensive, if not QUITE as expensive as it used to be.
Only if they are paying someone else to do it, I believe they do it themselves now, so one mill purchase (20-50k) and one person to run it, for the entire company would do it.
People keep saying this but setting a sprue up for production is still extremely expensive, if not QUITE as expensive as it used to be.
Only if they are paying someone else to do it, I believe they do it themselves now, so one mill purchase (20-50k) and one person to run it, for the entire company would do it.
,
Have a look at what the OP is saying in this thread https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/300/755735.page , they've had to do a lot of searching to find a milling place that can do it well enough to make decent sprues, even with a machine you'll need somebody with real skill/talent to run it and they're in high demand, unless you've got deep pockets you'd often find you'd upskilled somebody only for them to leave to do plastic production in a more lucrative field
People keep saying this but setting a sprue up for production is still extremely expensive, if not QUITE as expensive as it used to be.
Only if they are paying someone else to do it, I believe they do it themselves now, so one mill purchase (20-50k) and one person to run it, for the entire company would do it.
They've been doing it themselves since the '90s. They've shown pics of the process from time to time in White Dwarf.
Don't play this game with a sisters of battle player. Our basic troop squad is 80 dollars, online only(no discounts), comes with 0 options and 0 bits and several of the models are unusable.
I WISH it was as cheap to build an SoB army as it is to build GSC.
People keep saying this but setting a sprue up for production is still extremely expensive, if not QUITE as expensive as it used to be.
Only if they are paying someone else to do it, I believe they do it themselves now, so one mill purchase (20-50k) and one person to run it, for the entire company would do it.
They've been doing it themselves since the '90s. They've shown pics of the process from time to time in White Dwarf.
That doesn't mean it's cheap.
But my point was more that people seem to frequently conflate the idea of digital assets and ease/cheapness of physical production, and I think that's a huge mistake. Just because you have a great 3D model of, for instance, a gauntleted fist that can be reused, resized, etc, for multiple designs and kits, doesn't mean that the corresponding sprue(s) it might end up on is any cheaper AND/OR cost-effective to produce for the result desired. Which seemed to be the point of the post I was responding to.
In the end, the business model has to be maximum profit from the least physical output. The digital assets don't really come into that at all. You can pay digital sculptors to potter around all day for £20,000-£26,000 (TOTAL GUESS!) but when physical production of whatever they've designed has an initial in-house start up cost approaching a sizable chunk of their yearly wage of at least one of their design staff, then they don't jump into that without looking.
People keep saying this but setting a sprue up for production is still extremely expensive, if not QUITE as expensive as it used to be.
Only if they are paying someone else to do it, I believe they do it themselves now, so one mill purchase (20-50k) and one person to run it, for the entire company would do it.
They've been doing it themselves since the '90s. They've shown pics of the process from time to time in White Dwarf.
That doesn't mean it's cheap.
I definitely is compared to outsourcing it. Once the machinery is paid off (which it likely is and written off as a depreciating asset in some way) all they have is labor, raw materials (including things like electricity), and maintenance costs.
At least that is how it was when I was involved in plastics manufacturing. Technology has gotten better but the business end of it won't have changed much.
People keep saying this but setting a sprue up for production is still extremely expensive, if not QUITE as expensive as it used to be.
Only if they are paying someone else to do it, I believe they do it themselves now, so one mill purchase (20-50k) and one person to run it, for the entire company would do it.
They've been doing it themselves since the '90s. They've shown pics of the process from time to time in White Dwarf.
That doesn't mean it's cheap.
I definitely is compared to outsourcing it. Once the machinery is paid off (which it likely is and written off as a depreciating asset in some way) all they have is labor, raw materials (including things like electricity), and maintenance costs.
At least that is how it was when I was involved in plastics manufacturing. Technology has gotten better but the business end of it won't have changed much.
Yup GW do all the planning, moldmaking 3-d Rendering in house. They hire people on salary to work in their warehouse. All they are paying for is the labour/raw materials to make their molds. The machines, 3-d computers, etc etc everything they need to make those molds are long payed off for.
Altho they do outsource their production to china, and they still do.
People keep saying this but setting a sprue up for production is still extremely expensive, if not QUITE as expensive as it used to be.
Only if they are paying someone else to do it, I believe they do it themselves now, so one mill purchase (20-50k) and one person to run it, for the entire company would do it.
They've been doing it themselves since the '90s. They've shown pics of the process from time to time in White Dwarf.
That doesn't mean it's cheap.
I definitely is compared to outsourcing it. Once the machinery is paid off (which it likely is and written off as a depreciating asset in some way) all they have is labor, raw materials (including things like electricity), and maintenance costs.
At least that is how it was when I was involved in plastics manufacturing. Technology has gotten better but the business end of it won't have changed much.
Yup GW do all the planning, moldmaking 3-d Rendering in house. They hire people on salary to work in their warehouse. All they are paying for is the labour/raw materials to make their molds. The machines, 3-d computers, etc etc everything they need to make those molds are long payed off for.
Altho they do outsource their production to china, and they still do.
Well confirmation that old fluff > new fluff.
That tyranid part was a bit ridiculous. Tyranids don't make for good one on one enemies, each tyranid invasion is designed to devour an entire planet!
And they didn't even mention the Trial of Sebastian Thor and the Plague of Unbelief, some of the best fluff!!!
Ugh. Unsurprising that they're focusing on their new Fauxhammer 41,000 plot, but still disappointing as I'd hoped the Codex would at least have value as a sourcebook for the faction.
Yeah, i'm kinda concerned about the lore and artwork in the new codex. GWs codex art is not what it used to be. Kinda hoping they use colorized versions of the older art more than anything. I don't trust whatever digital artists GW pulled from deviantart to compose anything too worthwhile for SoB. And hopeully the new lore is kept to a minimum, i'd rather have more of their full history.
Thargrim wrote: Yeah, i'm kinda concerned about the lore and artwork in the new codex. GWs codex art is not what it used to be. Kinda hoping they use colorized versions of the older art more than anything. I don't trust whatever digital artists GW pulled from deviantart to compose anything too worthwhile for SoB. And hopeully the new lore is kept to a minimum, i'd rather have more of their full history.
The worst part of GW new art direction is not the talent of the artists but the "THOU MUST DRAW THE MINIATURE".
In the first months of AoS, ok, there was a ton of pretty crap art, and unlinke the old art that was less than stellar, it lacked any kind of charm exactly because they where just bad drawings of miniatures, like the dreaded Stormcast in Dracoths vs Stormfiends.
But you can't say artists like the one that has been doing the art of a couple of warhammer recent box sets
Or my favourite of 40k new artists, Igor Sid
https://www.artstation.com/sidwill Just look at some of his non GW work, is more warhammer than many proper warhammer pieces because he has that freedom.
Thargrim wrote: Yeah, i'm kinda concerned about the lore and artwork in the new codex. GWs codex art is not what it used to be. Kinda hoping they use colorized versions of the older art more than anything. I don't trust whatever digital artists GW pulled from deviantart to compose anything too worthwhile for SoB. And hopeully the new lore is kept to a minimum, i'd rather have more of their full history.
The worst part of GW new art direction is not the talent of the artists but the "THOU MUST DRAW THE MINIATURE".
Like the Godbeast miniatures, or that model of Slaanesh that's coming out?
It's been like that for thirty years, though. And if they did draw what they wanted, this forum would just be full of people moaning that they can't get a miniature of this, that or the other.
Thargrim wrote: Kinda hoping they use colorized versions of the older art more than anything.
I would feel this is incredibly lazy tbh. I'd prefer new art, even if it's called "bad" by some, it at least won't be worse than a Blanch piece.
A genuinely hilarious comment, given that one of the big reasons a lot of people will have gotten into Sisters in the first place was that stunning 2nd Ed codex cover by Blanche.
I'll take the sketchiest, lowest-effort concept pieces with actual character by Blanche over the bland "wait, why am I looking at videogame promotional art?" feel a lot of the modern stuff has. Same goes for Miller, Kopinsky, England et al - they all had style, they were all distinctive, they all had their own mad windows into the world, these days a lot of the art is technically proficient but...constrained, a bit soulless.
Thargrim wrote: Yeah, i'm kinda concerned about the lore and artwork in the new codex. GWs codex art is not what it used to be. Kinda hoping they use colorized versions of the older art more than anything. I don't trust whatever digital artists GW pulled from deviantart to compose anything too worthwhile for SoB. And hopeully the new lore is kept to a minimum, i'd rather have more of their full history.
The worst part of GW new art direction is not the talent of the artists but the "THOU MUST DRAW THE MINIATURE".
Like the Godbeast miniatures, or that model of Slaanesh that's coming out?
It's been like that for thirty years, though. And if they did draw what they wanted, this forum would just be full of people moaning that they can't get a miniature of this, that or the other.
People keep asserting this guff, but it's exactly that and you surely must know it. I literally can't recall a single instance of anyone, in a twenty year period, complaining that they couldn't buy the exact things depicted in the art. I can't even recall anyone expressing a sentiment vaguely along those lines, except more recently as a hypothetical from people defending GW's modern approach to art.
And you know fine well that there's a huge difference between setting-scale background stuff and what people are actually talking about when they say the art has stopped depicting interesting stuff in the setting that's not sold as miniatures - bringing up "godbeasts" and actual deities is like arguing that even during the worst phase a few years back when they were literally just commissioning poor shlubs off Deviantart and saying "here, paint this model in an action pose" they were still technically depicting things that aren't available as models because there was a hive city visible in the backdrop
I mainly saw that complaint when the image in the art had rules, but no models (pretty common for IG stuff outside the plastics), or had a model that was ancient and looked awful, where the artwork looked awesome. All niche situations though.
Thargrim wrote: Kinda hoping they use colorized versions of the older art more than anything.
I would feel this is incredibly lazy tbh. I'd prefer new art, even if it's called "bad" by some, it at least won't be worse than a Blanch piece.
I was thinking more along the lines of this:
colorized old artwork, none of gws current artists that I know of use that almost drawn style. IMO Blanches artwork is the heart and soul 40k was originally built on, like it or not.
Yodhrin wrote: A genuinely hilarious comment, given that one of the big reasons a lot of people will have gotten into Sisters in the first place was that stunning 2nd Ed codex cover by Blanche.
Codex v2 art is best art.
Spoiler:
NOT the cover though, I'm talking about this BEAUTY!!! I just LOVE how that optic/visor is almost bigger than her head, for BIGGER precision!
Haighus wrote: I mainly saw that complaint when the image in the art had rules, but no models (pretty common for IG stuff outside the plastics), or had a model that was ancient and looked awful, where the artwork looked awesome. All niche situations though.
It's a shift in philosophy really. There used to be a time when the art was intended to be a portal into the world-building aspect of the 40k universe. Games Workshop wanted to show off how vast and weird and totally awesome that universe was—and the models they built were just a small component of that setting. The art was a way to broaden the perspective of the audience.
When you boil it down to the basic argument, it's a similar complaint to the one where people say that GW used to offer their setting as a means to play out your own sagas within the framework of the 40k setting. Named characters used to be relatively rare—let alone Primarchs and similar. In short, GW used to promote much more individual creativity and variation within the hobby. Like when they used to post cool conversions or write tutorial articles about how to turn household scrap into cool terrain. I personally liked those days. It STILL made me want to buy models, but it didn't feel like they were shoving it down my throat as much. BUT, that said, any truly good, well-rendered and executed art is welcome.
pm713 wrote: Apparently I'm the only one who likes the new lore snippets then.
The Tyranid one doesn't really make sense, but I rather like the 'Path of Righteousness' one.
Which Tyranid one? The one where saint Ophelia traded her life for a Tyrant’s to save her charges or the one where a cloister help hold off a splinter fleet invasion?
Because that first one is from the original 2nd edition Codex but the second one… I guess if you do enough damage to your own world that the Nids won’t get any return on their investment they might withdraw but that’s a heck of a lot of promethium…
The second one, for the reason you mentioned.
Why would tyranids attack a barren rock, and how would Sisters be numerous enough on that rock to stop them? Nothing makes sense here.
The 'Path of Righteousness' could expand into something cool, for now it's ok.
The second one, for the reason you mentioned.
Why would tyranids attack a barren rock, and how would Sisters be numerous enough on that rock to stop them? Nothing makes sense here.
The 'Path of Righteousness' could expand into something cool, for now it's ok.
Why wouldn't Sisters be numerous enough? Tyranids aren't always in absolutely HUGE fleets they can be smaller (relatively) than normal. Sisters possess an advantage in that they almost all have ranged weaponry against a melee dominated horde and they have literal miracles.
Tyranids attacking them is easily explained with them noticing a force they subsequently underestimate and attack.
It's not the most ridiculous sounding thing with Tyranid lore. Maugan-Ra took out a Hive Fleet alone. Now I'm a huge Phoenix Lord fan but that takes some explaining.
Is specifically mentioned that it is a cluster of a larger fleet. And yeah fire is the kind of weapon that works best agaisnt Tyranids, something Sisters really love. Fire and Melta.
Thargrim wrote: IMO Blanches artwork is the heart and soul 40k was originally built on, like it or not.
I keep hoping that one day people will realize that art is subjective, and we aren't required to like the same art style they are. Blanche's style is polarizing to say the least. I consider it to be dated and overly busy. It's okay if you like it, but I just don't.
Tyranids don't do small forces because Tyranids come to EAT YOUR ENTIRE PLANET or don't come at all. No Imperium faction alone should be able to face a hive fleet. Should only be stoppable at very high cost by multitudes of PDF + IG + potential extra allies.
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Tyranids don't do small forces because Tyranids come to EAT YOUR ENTIRE PLANET or don't come at all. No Imperium faction alone should be able to face a hive fleet. Should only be stoppable at very high cost by multitudes of PDF + IG + potential extra allies.
But it is specifically mentioned as not a hive fleet but a smaller splinter of a bigger hive fleet, something that has appeared in the background before. Like, Tyranids don't go to a system in a unique unified army, normally the bulk of the hive fleet attacks a couple of very protected targets and then it spreads like a plague of locust consuming star systems at once.
And thats how many varieties of Tyranids fleets appear because some of those groups that was devouring one planet survive when the bigger one is destroyed and they go their own route, or they just continue consuming , flying away from the bulk of the force.
I always was intrigued by the massacre at sanctuary 101 way back in the 90’s when it was introduced. Ominous way to introduce the original necrons. I doubt it would make much of a box game though
John D Law wrote: I always was intrigued by the massacre at sanctuary 101 way back in the 90’s when it was introduced. Ominous way to introduce the original necrons. I doubt it would make much of a box game though
You can be sure it would be retconned to include a wider variety of troops that both armies had in 2nd ed. GW even makes fitting plastic terrain these days, which they could throw in if they felt like mixing up their battle boxes.
Tyranids descending on an utterly lifeless planet to quote the text. Fundamentally something wrong there and having one Sister leftover at the end is just silly.
If a single hiveship can wipe Malan'tai then a whole splinter fleet would have no problems with a couple thousand Sisters.
Thargrim wrote: IMO Blanches artwork is the heart and soul 40k was originally built on, like it or not.
I keep hoping that one day people will realize that art is subjective, and we aren't required to like the same art style they are. Blanche's style is polarizing to say the least. I consider it to be dated and overly busy. It's okay if you like it, but I just don't.
That's fair, but it's still true that his art and style is fundamental to the look of 40k and AoS. He's been providing artwork, art direction and concept art for 30-odd years, after all. You not liking it won't change that.
Tyranid Horde wrote: Tyranids descending on an utterly lifeless planet to quote the text. Fundamentally something wrong there and having one Sister leftover at the end is just silly.
If a single hiveship can wipe Malan'tai then a whole splinter fleet would have no problems with a couple thousand Sisters.
I don't see a problem. Splinter fleet sees a supposedly easy source of biomass. Diverts for a quick and easy meal. Quick and easy meal doesn't go down quick and easy and proceeds to butcher them in a fire and fury reply. Neither side backs down and committed, kill each other off. Sounds typical 40K to me. Plus it's a Sister article, so they're going to get bits to show they can put down other forces.
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