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 FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:
regerts

I'm assuming you were eating a Milky Way

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Also, as a side note, unless the current Rhino pattern was introduced more recently than M36, shouldn't we be using the newer pattern?

This is a very good point. There's no fluff reason Sisters should be using Heresy era equipment. But there is a fluff reason for Chaos to use it.

This all makes sense by the logic:

1. When the current SM Rhino is discontinued it will not be replaced. Primaris will all use floaty tanks.
2. This means they need a replacement Rhino for Chaos, Sisters and maybe HH.
3. The existing Rhino was done before they started using CAD for everything so there are no digital assets for it. The new one will need to be done from scratch.
4. The new Chaos Rhino will be based on the Deimos chassis.
5. They're not redoing the Mk2c chassis just for Sisters.
6. The digital assets for a Deimos chassis will be used as a base for both Chaos and Sisters.

Once Chaos and Sisters have their Rhino replacements there's no reason to keep the Mk2c, so if you need them for your oldmarine army or whatever you should plan accordingly.

There’s a sales reason: no-one owns these kits. So they’ll sell more. Fluff can be written to justify that. The end.

 AbadabadoobaddonMade wrote:


Once Chaos and Sisters have their Rhino replacements there's no reason to keep the Mk2c, so if you need them for your oldmarine army or whatever you should plan accordingly.

I think what's more likely is that the older pattern will be available for armies like Sisters, Chaos (and Marines if they really want it) which will open the door for a revamped Mk2C/Razorback kit which will be primarily a Razorback that can be built as a Rhino, but will be geared towards making a Razorback will all sorts of bells and whistles.

I'm getting a bit worried about the new plastic Sisters of Battle.

New plastic kits, yes, but so far, it all seems to be just an update of the Sisters of Battle. The game play form CA2018 feels much like 6th/7th edition. I'm really starting to wonder if there will be actual new models and rules, or just a refresh of Sisters of Battle for 8th ed.

 Tamwulf wrote:
I'm getting a bit worried about the new plastic Sisters of Battle.

New plastic kits, yes, but so far, it all seems to be just an update of the Sisters of Battle. The game play form CA2018 feels much like 6th/7th edition. I'm really starting to wonder if there will be actual new models and rules, or just a refresh of Sisters of Battle for 8th ed.

they probably don't want to spoil anything just yet

 Kanluwen wrote:

Flamer, Melta, some kind of new specialized boltgun that is used as a special slot(maybe the crossbow combi bolter?)
Heavy Bolter, Multimelta, Heavy Flamer.

Really depends if they're doing separate Dominion/Retributor kits. If they aren't, then probably 2 of each special and heavy.

 Tamwulf wrote:
I'm getting a bit worried about the new plastic Sisters of Battle.

New plastic kits, yes, but so far, it all seems to be just an update of the Sisters of Battle. The game play form CA2018 feels much like 6th/7th edition. I'm really starting to wonder if there will be actual new models and rules, or just a refresh of Sisters of Battle for 8th ed.

even if there aren't actually new things, you can expect new options in the plastic to enchourage sisters players to upgrade. expecting a ton of new stuff though strikes me as unlikely. even if we lowball our guesses sisters are gonna have a huuuge release just covering the bases already. Let's look at what we're likely to get bare minimum.

1: Cannoness Blisterpack
2: Battlesister Squad
3: Retributor Squad
4: Serapham Squad
5: Pentiant Engine
6: Rhino/Immolator/Eortionist (if they're decked out with bling I'm expecting one box but we could get up to 3 seperate kits for this)


I left off a dominion Squad as my bet is that we'll get 4 or 5 special weapons in the battlesister squad box and be expected to use that for them, but still bare minimum we're proably looking at a half dozen kits. and if the past is anything to go by we'll get more as GW'll put out a few HQ packs, and truthfully GW's design philophesy these days seems to be pretty character heavy so I expect to see a few new characters.

my guess is all told sisters will get around nine to a full dozen new kits. possiably more. If you use the death guard as an example they got a full dozen kits.

BrianDavion wrote:

even if there aren't actually new things, you can expect new options in the plastic to enchourage sisters players to upgrade. expecting a ton of new stuff though strikes me as unlikely. even if we lowball our guesses sisters are gonna have a huuuge release just covering the bases already. Let's look at what we're likely to get bare minimum.

1: Cannoness Blisterpack
2: Battlesister Squad
3: Retributor Squad
4: Serapham Squad
5: Pentiant Engine
6: Rhino/Immolator/Eortionist (if they're decked out with bling I'm expecting one box but we could get up to 3 seperate kits for this)


I left off a dominion Squad as my bet is that we'll get 4 or 5 special weapons in the battlesister squad box and be expected to use that for them, but still bare minimum we're proably looking at a half dozen kits. and if the past is anything to go by we'll get more as GW'll put out a few HQ packs, and truthfully GW's design philophesy these days seems to be pretty character heavy so I expect to see a few new characters.

my guess is all told sisters will get around nine to a full dozen new kits. possiably more. If you use the death guard as an example they got a full dozen kits.

Well there's going to be the promotional model based on the artwork - already rendered.

I am really wondering how much weaponry they are going to have for Sisters. Bolters, anything flame related and meltas sure but is there going to be anything punchier like plasma or rarer kind like gravi. And not to mention melee weaponry!

I could atleast see Combi-bolters being available to sisters in general.

Thommy H wrote:
I wouldn't read too much into the quoted price - they're probably legally obliged to put in a nominal value of the prize.

They are legally obliged to put the price itself.
They can hike it up though, as the prize offered can be more..

But I’d be surprised if they did, with current kits pricing it fits..

(For example the grand prize when they tot up the stuff might end up at £255, but couldn’t come to £245..)


With old GW I could imagine it, “we are giving you even more value in the prize kit than we said! Isn’t that great of us”

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Also, as a side note, unless the current Rhino pattern was introduced more recently than M36, shouldn't we be using the newer pattern?

This is a very good point. There's no fluff reason Sisters should be using Heresy era equipment. But there is a fluff reason for Chaos to use it.

This all makes sense by the logic:

1. When the current SM Rhino is discontinued it will not be replaced. Primaris will all use floaty tanks.
2. This means they need a replacement Rhino for Chaos, Sisters and maybe HH.
3. The existing Rhino was done before they started using CAD for everything so there are no digital assets for it. The new one will need to be done from scratch.
4. The new Chaos Rhino will be based on the Deimos chassis.
5. They're not redoing the Mk2c chassis just for Sisters.
6. The digital assets for a Deimos chassis will be used as a base for both Chaos and Sisters.

Once Chaos and Sisters have their Rhino replacements there's no reason to keep the Mk2c, so if you need them for your oldmarine army or whatever you should plan accordingly.

This. It has less to do with fluff reasons (which GW can retcon any time they like) and more to do with their stock of plastic models and how to design them efficiently.

I look forward to seeing the Chaos rhino that's based on this chassis. The proof will be when the Sisters rhino comes out and the frame of the tank is very basic and all of the sisters-specific stuff is on a separate sprue.

Never know, might get a start collecting kit with how small the original range was. But if they did I imagine it would include the penitent engine or like a small repentia squad instead of the rhino.

Sotahullu wrote:
I am really wondering how much weaponry they are going to have for Sisters. Bolters, anything flame related and meltas sure but is there going to be anything punchier like plasma or rarer kind like gravi. And not to mention melee weaponry!

I could atleast see Combi-bolters being available to sisters in general.

I'd guess 9 bolters, melee options for the superior (maul, sword, chainsword), pistol options for superior (bolt, plasma, hand flamer), special weapon mix- melta, flamer, storm bolter, heavy weapons mix- heavy bolter, heavy flamer, multimelta.

Maybe a celestian kit with more melee options and combi bolter loadout.

drbored wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Also, as a side note, unless the current Rhino pattern was introduced more recently than M36, shouldn't we be using the newer pattern?

This is a very good point. There's no fluff reason Sisters should be using Heresy era equipment. But there is a fluff reason for Chaos to use it.

This all makes sense by the logic:

1. When the current SM Rhino is discontinued it will not be replaced. Primaris will all use floaty tanks.
2. This means they need a replacement Rhino for Chaos, Sisters and maybe HH.
3. The existing Rhino was done before they started using CAD for everything so there are no digital assets for it. The new one will need to be done from scratch.
4. The new Chaos Rhino will be based on the Deimos chassis.
5. They're not redoing the Mk2c chassis just for Sisters.
6. The digital assets for a Deimos chassis will be used as a base for both Chaos and Sisters.

Once Chaos and Sisters have their Rhino replacements there's no reason to keep the Mk2c, so if you need them for your oldmarine army or whatever you should plan accordingly.

This. It has less to do with fluff reasons (which GW can retcon any time they like) and more to do with their stock of plastic models and how to design them efficiently.

I look forward to seeing the Chaos rhino that's based on this chassis. The proof will be when the Sisters rhino comes out and the frame of the tank is very basic and all of the sisters-specific stuff is on a separate sprue.

The Sisters stuff doesn't even necessarily need to come on a separate sprue for this strategy to make sense. Since it's all done digitally they can reuse the files even if they don't reuse the sprues. It still saves them work.

But cost them sprues aka money.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

drbored wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Also, as a side note, unless the current Rhino pattern was introduced more recently than M36, shouldn't we be using the newer pattern?

This is a very good point. There's no fluff reason Sisters should be using Heresy era equipment. But there is a fluff reason for Chaos to use it.

This all makes sense by the logic:

1. When the current SM Rhino is discontinued it will not be replaced. Primaris will all use floaty tanks.
2. This means they need a replacement Rhino for Chaos, Sisters and maybe HH.
3. The existing Rhino was done before they started using CAD for everything so there are no digital assets for it. The new one will need to be done from scratch.
4. The new Chaos Rhino will be based on the Deimos chassis.
5. They're not redoing the Mk2c chassis just for Sisters.
6. The digital assets for a Deimos chassis will be used as a base for both Chaos and Sisters.

Once Chaos and Sisters have their Rhino replacements there's no reason to keep the Mk2c, so if you need them for your oldmarine army or whatever you should plan accordingly.

This. It has less to do with fluff reasons (which GW can retcon any time they like) and more to do with their stock of plastic models and how to design them efficiently.

I look forward to seeing the Chaos rhino that's based on this chassis. The proof will be when the Sisters rhino comes out and the frame of the tank is very basic and all of the sisters-specific stuff is on a separate sprue.

The Sisters stuff doesn't even necessarily need to come on a separate sprue for this strategy to make sense. Since it's all done digitally they can reuse the files even if they don't reuse the sprues. It still saves them work.

People keep saying this but setting a sprue up for production is still extremely expensive, if not QUITE as expensive as it used to be.

All I know is if the basic sisters squad is 60 bucks for ten there had better be 3 unique sprues in a box like the CSM. That is an expensive pricetag on a core unit.

 Thargrim wrote:
All I know is if the basic sisters squad is 60 bucks for ten there had better be 3 unique sprues in a box like the CSM. That is an expensive pricetag on a core unit.

Yeah.... guys, talking as a genestealer cult player, be happy your kits are worth more than one point per dollar you're spending on them. I only break that with gear options on my basic troops. Guess what you're all in for.

 ekwatts wrote:


People keep saying this but setting a sprue up for production is still extremely expensive, if not QUITE as expensive as it used to be.

Only if they are paying someone else to do it, I believe they do it themselves now, so one mill purchase (20-50k) and one person to run it, for the entire company would do it.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
There’s a sales reason: no-one owns these kits. So they’ll sell more. Fluff can be written to justify that. The end.

I got bored of waiting

 Grundz wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:


People keep saying this but setting a sprue up for production is still extremely expensive, if not QUITE as expensive as it used to be.

Only if they are paying someone else to do it, I believe they do it themselves now, so one mill purchase (20-50k) and one person to run it, for the entire company would do it.

,

Have a look at what the OP is saying in this thread https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/300/755735.page , they've had to do a lot of searching to find a milling place that can do it well enough to make decent sprues, even with a machine you'll need somebody with real skill/talent to run it and they're in high demand, unless you've got deep pockets you'd often find you'd upskilled somebody only for them to leave to do plastic production in a more lucrative field

 Grundz wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:


People keep saying this but setting a sprue up for production is still extremely expensive, if not QUITE as expensive as it used to be.

Only if they are paying someone else to do it, I believe they do it themselves now, so one mill purchase (20-50k) and one person to run it, for the entire company would do it.

They've been doing it themselves since the '90s. They've shown pics of the process from time to time in White Dwarf.

wrong quote.

Don't play this game with a sisters of battle player. Our basic troop squad is 80 dollars, online only(no discounts), comes with 0 options and 0 bits and several of the models are unusable.

I WISH it was as cheap to build an SoB army as it is to build GSC.

 Grundz wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
There’s a sales reason: no-one owns these kits. So they’ll sell more. Fluff can be written to justify that. The end.

I got bored of waiting

way cool. hope the gw's one is as good.

 insaniak wrote:

 Grundz wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:


People keep saying this but setting a sprue up for production is still extremely expensive, if not QUITE as expensive as it used to be.

Only if they are paying someone else to do it, I believe they do it themselves now, so one mill purchase (20-50k) and one person to run it, for the entire company would do it.

They've been doing it themselves since the '90s. They've shown pics of the process from time to time in White Dwarf.

That doesn't mean it's cheap.

But my point was more that people seem to frequently conflate the idea of digital assets and ease/cheapness of physical production, and I think that's a huge mistake. Just because you have a great 3D model of, for instance, a gauntleted fist that can be reused, resized, etc, for multiple designs and kits, doesn't mean that the corresponding sprue(s) it might end up on is any cheaper AND/OR cost-effective to produce for the result desired. Which seemed to be the point of the post I was responding to.

In the end, the business model has to be maximum profit from the least physical output. The digital assets don't really come into that at all. You can pay digital sculptors to potter around all day for £20,000-£26,000 (TOTAL GUESS!) but when physical production of whatever they've designed has an initial in-house start up cost approaching a sizable chunk of their yearly wage of at least one of their design staff, then they don't jump into that without looking.

 ekwatts wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Grundz wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:


People keep saying this but setting a sprue up for production is still extremely expensive, if not QUITE as expensive as it used to be.

Only if they are paying someone else to do it, I believe they do it themselves now, so one mill purchase (20-50k) and one person to run it, for the entire company would do it.

They've been doing it themselves since the '90s. They've shown pics of the process from time to time in White Dwarf.

That doesn't mean it's cheap.

I definitely is compared to outsourcing it. Once the machinery is paid off (which it likely is and written off as a depreciating asset in some way) all they have is labor, raw materials (including things like electricity), and maintenance costs.

At least that is how it was when I was involved in plastics manufacturing. Technology has gotten better but the business end of it won't have changed much.

YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
Yeah.... guys, talking as a genestealer cult player, be happy your kits are worth more than one point per dollar

No, I'm not willing to be happy with bare minimum.

 Taarnak wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Grundz wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:


People keep saying this but setting a sprue up for production is still extremely expensive, if not QUITE as expensive as it used to be.

Only if they are paying someone else to do it, I believe they do it themselves now, so one mill purchase (20-50k) and one person to run it, for the entire company would do it.

They've been doing it themselves since the '90s. They've shown pics of the process from time to time in White Dwarf.

That doesn't mean it's cheap.

I definitely is compared to outsourcing it. Once the machinery is paid off (which it likely is and written off as a depreciating asset in some way) all they have is labor, raw materials (including things like electricity), and maintenance costs.

At least that is how it was when I was involved in plastics manufacturing. Technology has gotten better but the business end of it won't have changed much.

Yup GW do all the planning, moldmaking 3-d Rendering in house. They hire people on salary to work in their warehouse. All they are paying for is the labour/raw materials to make their molds. The machines, 3-d computers, etc etc everything they need to make those molds are long payed off for.

Altho they do outsource their production to china, and they still do.

 FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

 Taarnak wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Grundz wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:


People keep saying this but setting a sprue up for production is still extremely expensive, if not QUITE as expensive as it used to be.

Only if they are paying someone else to do it, I believe they do it themselves now, so one mill purchase (20-50k) and one person to run it, for the entire company would do it.

They've been doing it themselves since the '90s. They've shown pics of the process from time to time in White Dwarf.

That doesn't mean it's cheap.

I definitely is compared to outsourcing it. Once the machinery is paid off (which it likely is and written off as a depreciating asset in some way) all they have is labor, raw materials (including things like electricity), and maintenance costs.

At least that is how it was when I was involved in plastics manufacturing. Technology has gotten better but the business end of it won't have changed much.

Yup GW do all the planning, moldmaking 3-d Rendering in house. They hire people on salary to work in their warehouse. All they are paying for is the labour/raw materials to make their molds. The machines, 3-d computers, etc etc everything they need to make those molds are long payed off for.

Altho they do outsource their production to china, and they still do.

So it's an issue of capacity, then.

Which can be just as limiting and prohibitive.