This is just why GW doesn't like doing long term previews of things. Short term previews close to the release work because the hype remains high even on very little information teased out.
When you put years between meaningful updates (which is what the warhammer TV shows have had) the little solid information only goes so far before people end up going in circles. Which is then a toss up between circles of ever increasing hype or ever increasing misery.
That said I feel like we are on the home stretch now and that we should be thinking months not years for seeing Warhammer + and the TV shows (or at least some of them)
Took 'em a while, but I guess the unrelenting torrent of people clowning on how awful Warhammer+ sounds finally got to the big cheeses, who have decided to do a bit of damage control.
They said when it was first announced that there’d be a preview in June with more details.
From the beginning they were specific about June 23 as the preview date, too.
Lurking several years, but I would like to comment on this.
To my mind, GW are now realising that 3d-printers are here to stay and that while they may stop individual recasters, a "model" is such a broad term that they cannot stop private people printing their own, or other's, designs that are close enough to GW models to be used as proxies even in tournaments, but not close enough to be stopped by Cease and Desist-letters.
At the bottom level, the business model of producing models to be sold at great profit is under threat and they cannot envision a way to continue that along with the increasing prevalence of 3d printers and printing services.
You need so many books, hard-cover and all, to play a single faction plus unending numbers of campaign books, which seems to be a greater and greater part of the hobby. It is almost as though they are becoming a book store. GW has also really spread into licensing their IP for video games and lately comic books/graphic novels. A streaming service just seems to be the newest addition to the number of ways GW can monetize their IP in a non-model-related way.
The latest tournament pack for the US GT is the opposite side of this coin. Conversions and scratch builds need to be approved by photo in advance of the tournament and all FW models need to be the FW model. No conversion or scratch-build allowed, pay up or stay out. I.e., the last way to protect the model business is to exclude everybody else's work from GW-controlled tournaments. If they go this route, we will have a new ITC in a few years that just use the rules, but allows any and all models as long as it is clear what they are, but that is another discussion.
3D printers, at the level they exist now, are not competition. 3D printing is essentially a hobby in of itself, requiring space and interest in, well, manufacturing. A 3d printer isn't, and won't be for a long time i expect, as convenient as an actual ink/laser printer, and even with those around you don't see people printing out novels on their home Hewlett Packard.
GW is no doubt diversifying their portfolio, but 3D printers are almost certainly not the reason.
Cronch wrote: 3D printers, at the level they exist now, are not competition. 3D printing is essentially a hobby in of itself, requiring space and interest in, well, manufacturing. A 3d printer isn't, and won't be for a long time i expect, as convenient as an actual ink/laser printer, and even with those around you don't see people printing out novels on their home Hewlett Packard.
GW is no doubt diversifying their portfolio, but 3D printers are almost certainly not the reason.
That is something I hadn't thought of before. 3D printers are like anything else, if they become mainstream the enterprises behind them will become as exploitative and predatory as any other major mainstream product manufacturer.
Sure, GW prices are crazy, but once everyone who wants one has a 3D printer at there house, it's not like the companies behind it won't do everything in their power to make it as expensive as possible to use. Look at printer ink.
Cronch wrote: because paying for the privilege of being first to give a corporation money is pathetic and encourages anti-customer practices which impact everyone, not just you.
In the grim darkness of the head future, there is only greed! Cyberpunk 4077.
Malika2 wrote: Hmm, let's see how long it'll take before those episodes will appear on Putlocker or any other host site...
Given the lengths they've gone to in the past to stop WD (and other) leaks, I'm sure they've got a plan top deal with that.
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Vejby wrote: The latest tournament pack for the US GT is the opposite side of this coin.
But there's nothing new in that pack, is there? It's the same as playing at Warhammer World or other previous GW events, or the streaming rules for the major tournaments.
Cronch wrote: because paying for the privilege of being first to give a corporation money is pathetic and encourages anti-customer practices which impact everyone, not just you.
Cobblers. Absolute cobblers.
You don’t want to sign up, don’t sign up. And don’t claim anyone who does sign up is somehow damaging to your position.
I'm talking SPECIFICALLY about your idea of "signing up lets people access preorders early and get better service at tourneys", not the "pay to access shows/rulebooks" service.
It's a bad practice from customer's pov and create even more uneven have-have not split in a hobby that's already classist as heck.
Its hardly new though, given that it sounds an awful lot like Amazon Prime. Early access to some product sales, access to streamed media, etc.
The only issue is if GW supply means that the fancy gubbinz can only ever be purchased by members, rather than members getting a few days/weeks head start on everyone else.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Let me rephrase... the "classist" issue comes about if you need to be a member, not the "only issue"...
The trick is making the service worth having long term (eg a year) whilst providing core content (videos) which are worth the customers money for that period of time. After that things like unique model access or early buys and such are all cream that you add on top. That's how Amazon works - they get you not with the TV but with the free next day postage. At least that's how they started when Prime had far fewer shows on offer. Same for their music streaming and other services.
The idea is to lure you in with value for money in the core business and then leverage that to support side ones.
I'm looking forward to seeing the programs they have teased so far, so I'm on board with Warhammer+ so far just to watch that stuff.
But, I'm curious to learn more about the service and how they'll keep folks subscribed once they watch what comes out at release. I'm someone who only subscribes to a streaming service for long enough to watch a specific show/movie, so we'll see.
I just hope the app will be Chromecast compatible. Signed up for a service with the local theatre to stream plays, and they could only be watched in the browser, which was a pain.
Overread wrote: The trick is making the service worth having long term (eg a year) whilst providing core content (videos) which are worth the customers money for that period of time. After that things like unique model access or early buys and such are all cream that you add on top. That's how Amazon works - they get you not with the TV but with the free next day postage. At least that's how they started when Prime had far fewer shows on offer. Same for their music streaming and other services.
The idea is to lure you in with value for money in the core business and then leverage that to support side ones.
I don't think GW has the budget to make their service worth long term, especially not if they're the only ones providing any content for it. Disney struggled to have enough content to make Disney+ worth it for a prolonged time, and Disney is several magnitudes larger and more evil than GW.
Some food for thought, this month's White Dwarf (released on Friday) is not available on Warhammer Digital (yet).
It's also very likely that Age of Sigmar 3rd Edition will do away with ebooks of their battletomes and rulebooks and go for a similar model like 40k 9th Edition with redeemable online codes included in the printed books.
Maybe some kind of book and novel flatrate is included in Warhammer+ ?
Cronch wrote: because paying for the privilege of being first to give a corporation money is pathetic and encourages anti-customer practices which impact everyone, not just you.
Cobblers. Absolute cobblers.
You don’t want to sign up, don’t sign up. And don’t claim anyone who does sign up is somehow damaging to your position.
I’m not sure about this Warhammer plus subscription. I just can’t imagine anything they will announce that would interest me enough to pay for it.
I already pay for Netflix and Disney plus, and have decided not to pay for Apple TV or Amazon prime, but both of these offer an awful lot more than Warhammer plus is likely to.
Realistically what could Warhammer plus offer beyond a dozen cartoons? Discounted models? Discounted black library? I don’t imagine either of those being included in the subscription price. Maybe it will include the app subscription.
I might be interested if it included the app subscription with full rules access so I don’t need to buy the rule books, but I can’t see that happening. I doubt it will include a WD subscription, perhaps a discounted rate, but I won’t be enticed by discounts for things I wasn’t going to get anyway.
Vovin wrote: So the maximum we can expect is this:
Animations: flatrate
Audiobook flatrate/ Audible-like monthly freebie/ better prices/ bundles
Books: eBook flatrate/ Audible-like monthly freebie/ better prices/bundles/ exclusive variant covers
Online shop: better delivery conditions/ priority preorder
Videos: Painting Guides/ Battle Reports/ Gaming Advice - Flatrate/ Twitch perks
Miniatures: exclusives/ time exclusives/ special bundles
Interactive Campaigns: exclusive participation tracking/voting
Videos Games: special offers/ exclusive in-game goodies
Merch: exclusive offers
Rules: exclusive rule additions - i.e. future Cult of Strifes only for Warhammer+ users/ online rules compendium
App: Warhammer App/Azyr for free
White Dwarf: reduced subscription fee/ free electronic version
Made to order: exclusive deals/ individual bits/ whole backlog/ voting which miniatures are coming back next
I doubt they will be offering as much as this, but even if everything on this list was included, I won’t be subscribing.
I don’t buy white dwarf, I don’t think it’s particularly good, getting it cheaper won’t make me want it. I’m not particularly interested in limited edition models, I like the models I like and I buy those ones, something being in short supply doesn’t make it appealing to me. I don’t subscribe to the 40K app because I don’t think it’s very good, and I get the same functionality or better elsewhere for free. There are enough free painting and modelling tutorials online that I can’t imagine I’d pay for them. The rest is basically paying for the privilege to pay for stuff. No thanks. And my FLGS generally sells GW at 10% less than getting it direct from GW, I doubt any discount for subscribers would beat that (especially when the cost of subscription is factored in). And I like supporting my FLGS.
Maybe Warhammer plus will appeal to others and be a great success, but I really can’t imagine that I’ll be subscribing.
do we know if this'll be a subscription service? they've used the term VOD and it's possiable rather then subscriptions it could just be "apy to watch"
BrianDavion wrote: do we know if this'll be a subscription service? they've used the term VOD and it's possiable rather then subscriptions it could just be "apy to watch"
Cronch wrote: pay us to be the first in line to pay us!
what a lovely capitalist dystopia you've dreamed up
He didn't have to dream it up, for some US Football teams you have to pay to sit on a waiting to maybe someday buy season tickets after the old wave of fans finally dies.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: If it lets me get my grubby mitts on card packs and Cursed City expansions, I’m willing
What Cursed City?
There is no Cursed City board game.
It never existed.
Radukar didn't appear in anything before coming to Age of Sigmar.
We have always been at war with Eurasia
F'ing Eurasia, I hate them even more than East Asia.
Cronch wrote: because paying for the privilege of being first to give a corporation money is pathetic and encourages anti-customer practices which impact everyone, not just you.
Cobblers. Absolute cobblers.
You don’t want to sign up, don’t sign up. And don’t claim anyone who does sign up is somehow damaging to your position.
Valrak is that you? Come on man. Sad.
Can't be, doesn't say GLORIOUS enough or LARP that he's really an Imperial Fist.
Valarak can't have an account here, he's too busy crying into his Primaris Imperial Fist body pillow about Marines not getting a release for two months
So, £4.99 a month, and two exclusive miniatures which on average go for £21 a pop, based on my extensive knowledge of such gubbins.
Assuming one every six months, even if you’re just in it for the models, it’s either £25 each if you pay up front for the year (£49.99), or £30 based on £60 over the year.
The free miniature seems a little odd. White Dwarf yearly subscriptions used to come with a free miniature that was exclusive to that yearly sub, a free miniature is great but it isn't really something that exciting when its just an ordinary model.
Price is reasonable, but will depend on quality of the lore masters content for me and whether or not it is locked behind an app, or can be run in a browser as well.
I'm half tempted to cancel white dwarf and shift to this - which would not surprise me if it is GW's master plan
Vindicar looks very sweet as a model! Orruk looks a touch more standard model, but I can see it being popular with Orruk players. Plus its nice to see its not a Stormcast so it sets a neat standard for the models being much more varied in option (not just legions of Imperials and Stormcast).
Arbitrator wrote: People raving about the minature, but if it was a general release would you even buy a Vindicator or Ironjaw Boss?
Admittedly surprised they didn't lead with a Marine.
The Vindicator looks very very good and you are right I would not buy either one as neither really fits with armies I collect. That said if I got Warhammer + I'd be happy with the Vindicator as a model in its own right (and I can always try and stick a Genestealer cultist symbol on it )
And I'm glad they didn't lead with a Marine. I've had a sort of feeling thaT GW today is a bit more keen for Marine to perhaps weaken their grasp on the company. Not that they don't want those customers nor sales; but that I think GW today wants to have their income more spread out through their range rather than heavily weighted into a single force and game.
I think the vindicare looks good overall...but it's not because of the Vindicare itself. It's the giant statue its got as its base, if it weren't for that it wouldn't be very interesting at all. Seems like a strange choice when the actual miniature itself isn't really that unique.
Mark me as pleasantly surprised. They seem to have genuinely packed a decent amount of content into this. Still not sure if I'm in, but it's at least a little tempting.
This isn't something that I'm personally interested in, but for the subscription price it seems like you're certainly going to get value out of it if it's something that you subscribe to. The Masterclass alone would be fun to watch, Louise always brings a certain joy to everything she does.
I guess I can work two extra hours this year to afford more Warhammer more often for a year. If one is interested only in the animations, it's probably worth waiting for a year, get a one month sub and binge watch everything during one evening.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I think the vindicare looks good overall...but it's not because of the Vindicare itself. It's the giant statue its got as its base, if it weren't for that it wouldn't be very interesting at all. Seems like a strange choice when the actual miniature itself isn't really that unique.
I’m talking to a painter friend of mine about the possibilities of that model, painted in a drab, grubby kinda industrial neutral scheme, with Blade Runner style rain slicked surfaces and a big old hot pink neon sign, complete with OSL.
If anyone can pull it off, it’s not me. I’ve got hands like cow’s Tits. But it’s probably him.
Slightly better quality of the Vindicare than the current photo in the thread. Great model. I feel like he needs to be slightly higher, though that would be a nightmare to transport
I gotta feeling the first year or two on WH+ are going to be kinda skinny on the contents dept, but it'll probably get better in time.
That painter lady freaked me out tho! Something very insincere about her body language in that stream. O'well, as long as the actual masterclasses are quality..
So if you sign on for a year, you get the opportunity to give GW even more money for another model, you can access (bits of) digital books which they removed from general sale for no reason, can access the complete back catalogue of White Dwarf (since 2020), can see painting tutorials which they stopped doing on Youtube, and can see some battle reports.
Given the size of both models, I'm excited to see what future exclusives will be. We've never gotten really "big" limited models. Some white dwarfs have had big bases, but nothing on par with the vindicare. And megabosses are pretty beefy models too.
Also worth pointing out, the master class tutorials look fantastic. Way better than any tutorial GW has put out in the past
So if you sign on for a year, you get the opportunity to give GW even more money for another model, you can access (bits of) digital books which they removed from general sale for no reason, can access the complete back catalogue of White Dwarf (since 2020), can see painting tutorials which they stopped doing on Youtube, and can see some battle reports.
I'm still trying to take my head around this but I'm probably not impressed.
- Animations - these are really cool but I doubt there will be enough content going forward. After all they are not Netflix to throw in a new show every month. I also never watch this type of content on PC or mobile - if they don't have support for smart TVs and game consoles they are not for me.
- Miniatures - waiting an year for an exclusive miniature from army I don't collect, that is a hard sell isn't it? I assume there will be quite few of these on Ebay.
- Apps - well, these I refuse to pay altogether. I paid for minis, I paid for books, I'm definitely not going to pay for the app allowing me to build army list. It is not a matter of money, it is matter of principles.
- Master class tutorials - looks great. I'm still very new to the hobby so I could use those a lot I think. Again it depends how much content there will be
Arbitrator wrote: It's interesting to see all the sceptism vanish just because they offer you a 'free' model.
GW should sell bridges.
I think it was Penny Arcade who first posted this, but "Shhh.... let people enjoy things."
It's not for you - that's totally ok! But a lot of people are pretty excited about it, so why crap on that excitement? I get that you hate everything GW does with a burning passion, but why feel the need to comment on all of it? Getting real tired of all you folks who are real GW haters yet continue to post here anyways.
Arbitrator wrote: It's interesting to see all the sceptism vanish just because they offer you a 'free' model.
GW should sell bridges.
It's not really the free model. It's the price per year coupled with the model coupled with the combined options that they are offering. One of the biggest questions was how much was it all going to cost; when you factor in that the model is easily £20-25 by modern prices on GW stuff then even if you don't like it you can easily flip it for around half the cost of your subscription. So there's value there which makes it around £25-30 a year for all the content.
Again its not any one thing its the combined.
Plus we've not even touched on the actual videos and TV shows that GW are making since they are an unknown at present. We know their painting and battle reports will use clear audio and good video quality and such.
As I said on the first page or so of the thread, its the way hobbies are going.
Model rail sites have done this for a while, although I did expect a digital white dwarf to include the latest copy every month rather than an archive.
It may change as they go on I think.
My thought is that at £50, you could probably sell the mini and get the year for free.
£60 a year on monthly payment and a £25 model is good value I think. It shouldn’t be hard for Gw to provide enough value to warrant the remaining £35 from the animations, as long as they’ve actually made an effort with them to tell good stories.
I would say it’s a shame that WD isn’t included as I think it makes sense and is a definite way to keep new, valuable content coming.
I’m concerned that the animations will take a few hours to watch and then most of the new content will be painting and battle reports. But after 3 months when this becomes apparent customers will think they might aswell keep paying to get their free model
I’m very interested in how deep the old content mine goes.
See, I’m lucky to have pocket and patience to buy whatever old books I want, for a price I find largely agreeable.
Example, I spent last year assembling a complete set of Rogue Trade era book, and this year I spent time assembling a complete set (barring Titan Legions, but just had my bonus, maybe time to fix that) 2nd Ed epic.
I won’t reveal the price I paid because that’s terribly gauche, but suffice to say whilst I bided my time and got the best price I could, cheap it was not.
They’ve already reprinted Rogue Trader and the two original Realms of Chaos book. So those clearly exist in some form of modern electronic format.
Stick that holy trinity up, and I’d say you’re pretty much getting your subs worth right there.
Add in Waaaargh! The Orks, let alone ‘Ere We Go and Freebooterz? Well I need not further damage already somewhat fragile originals.
The archive could be our on demand play thing. If those like me happy to be early adopters can request/demand certain volumes or archive battle reports on behalf of non-subscribers, so much the better.
The way they word the white dwarf archive is a little confusing too.
You could read it as ALL white dwarfs up to 2020, or just 2020.
Model rail offerings have in general provided the entire back catalogue, I expect if that isn't there at the start, it will be by the time 2nd year renewals are due.
My only concern is that going forward we might not see reprints or print on demand of old print content or releases on DVD/Blueray of the TV shows.
OR if we do they'll be collectors and thus at least double market value.
I really hope I'm wrong. I'd gladly pay regular market values for TV shows I enjoy to own on media even if I have subscription access. Cause you never know when the subscription service might end or I might not sign up to it any more etc... Or perhaps GW has a hissy fit fight with one of their production studios and suddenly a bunch of videos get pulled from subscription etc...
By my limited and indeed massively Luddite understanding, digitising such volumes isn’t much more than paying someone to scan in the old volumes, perhaps a digital spit and polish, then save it to the right format.
It’s almost certainly more complicated than that. But I’m wondering how much more complicated?
Perhaps a Dakkanaut with actual, genuine, relevant experience of creating an exportable digital archive could chime in?
Hm... nope. The free mini thing is not something I like to see linked with a streaming service, for starters, I'm not fond of "orruks" and the other mini is basically a floating statue with a guy on top, of which I already have three.
I might subscribe a month when there's actually enough stuff to fill a month, or to read.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: By my limited and indeed massively Luddite understanding, digitising such volumes isn’t much more than paying someone to scan in the old volumes, perhaps a digital spit and polish, then save it to the right format.
It’s almost certainly more complicated than that. But I’m wondering how much more complicated?
Perhaps a Dakkanaut with actual, genuine, relevant experience of creating an exportable digital archive could chime in?
It really is, and it really isn't ^^.
It isn't if you go the fast/cheap/lazy route and simply scan it. It is much harder if you actually convert it into a digital book/comic/whatever, with proper quality and all.
Random nobodies on the internet have mastered the arcane art of scanning back issues of White Dwarf and uploading PDFs, so there's no reason that GW shouldn't be able to do it.
They should have done it years ago; and shouldn't be locking it behind a subscription service.
GaroRobe wrote: Slightly better quality of the Vindicare than the current photo in the thread. Great model. I feel like he needs to be slightly higher, though that would be a nightmare to transport
Thanks for sharing the image! Great model and there's more content than I expected but not enough to tempt me. Our household generally prefers one time digital purchases over the monthly subscription model.
It isn't if you go the fast/cheap/lazy route and simply scan it. It is much harder if you actually convert it into a digital book/comic/whatever, with proper quality and all.
They will not be providing them in downloadable format I wouldn't think. Too much of a win for pirating.
It will be some sort of online reader integrated into the platform.
It seems to contain a lot of cool benefits, like a free exclusive model, which if that's not your thing, just give it to a friend for a gift, trust me, they make GREAT gifts (it's not my thing, but I buy them when I find them because my best friend LOVES those exclusives. Someone also mentioned that you could probably sell it for the cost of the sub yearly, and I'm willing to bet you can)
It seems like GW is really trying to fill out content around the hobby, so this isn't based just on animated entertainment, it will also include apparently lore deep dives, some more in-depth painting tutorials from some excellent painters, and a back catalog of things to read, like Gathering Storm and Sanctus Reach, (which is really convenient for me, since I lent out those books and never got them back, it might be nice to re-read them, YMMV) and some battle reports (which I personally am looking forward too, because it would be incredible to see what studio painted armies, on studio painted tables looks like in play, and I'm SUPER excited to see some narrative play ideas from them).
You get the app sub with it, which, while everyone bitches constantly about the app, I will say that it's been pretty good for me, especially since the last update. Maybe give it a shot since it's grown up a little?
60.00 a year is a negligible cost, so for me, it has a LOT of value to justify that price tag. I'm happy to see GW working hard to fill out the content material as the channel matures. Seems pretty cool to me.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: By my limited and indeed massively Luddite understanding, digitising such volumes isn’t much more than paying someone to scan in the old volumes, perhaps a digital spit and polish, then save it to the right format.
It’s almost certainly more complicated than that. But I’m wondering how much more complicated?
Perhaps a Dakkanaut with actual, genuine, relevant experience of creating an exportable digital archive could chime in?
Fun fact: it was actually Louise Sugden who had the task of restoring and digitizing the old Rogue Trader and Realm of Chaos books in order for GW to do the reprints.
Very excited to add that Vindicare to my Flesh Tearers army. Not a model I would normally spend money on but one that I've always enjoyed the aesthetic of.
Really liking this reveal and the potential of this subscription, and that is from someone who was initially very skeptical.
Recent era WD won't be an issue to provide (although file formats may complicate stuff a bit)
but go too far back and they won't own the rights to digitally publish all the content in an issue as they'll have cheaped out and paid a freelancer for art/articles etc (or just solicited readers for material like letters) without getting the appropriate permissions (as nobody knew about digital back then)
the chapterhouse case showed how sloppy early GW was about ownership of something vs just paying to use it once/for something specific (eg a particular rulebook etc)
Seabass wrote: It seems to contain a lot of cool benefits, like a free exclusive model
It's not 'free'. It's built into the cost of the subscription.
well, if you are already paying 5€ for the 40k App, you actually get a lot of free stuff on top off that
if you don't use the App, just wanted to have digital books and are not a friend of random minis using for display only, you pay extra for stuff you don't need
with this product, what is free, worth the price or expensive is totally on the point of view for the individual costumer
Pass for me. Two minis i don't have a use for and can't choose (instead of making it any two character minis of your choice from a certain price range for example), drip fed animation, and stuff that should be free because it's entirely marketing (i.e. Battle reports) isn't worth it for me.
Seabass wrote: It seems to contain a lot of cool benefits, like a free exclusive model
It's not 'free'. It's built into the cost of the subscription.
The subscription service is there to provide digital content, this was their stated goal. The inclusion of a non-digital product with the digital content could reasonably be described as "free" given the scope of the venture and its intended purpose. If you want to argue the semantics of the word free, then fine, it's not free, it would more accurately be described as a value-add to encourage subscriptions given this new business venture. Typically, these kinds of value adds can be referred to as free without violating any kind of US marketing and consumer law. I'm sure it's probably similar to where you're from too. I'm willing to bet they are adding value-adds to this in an attempt to get a handle on the population of the streaming services and determine CA% for bandwidth as well as other infrastructure plans.
But, let's be fair, your statement most likely wasn't meant to determine the *exact* nature of any value-adds or whether or not they could be construed as free. I would hazard a guess is that it was to denigrate the evil GW empire as selling the model to sell the service so they can roll around in their Scrooge McDuck tower of cash naked while enjoying hookers and blow.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: By my limited and indeed massively Luddite understanding, digitising such volumes isn’t much more than paying someone to scan in the old volumes, perhaps a digital spit and polish, then save it to the right format.
It’s almost certainly more complicated than that. But I’m wondering how much more complicated?
Perhaps a Dakkanaut with actual, genuine, relevant experience of creating an exportable digital archive could chime in?
Fun fact: it was actually Louise Sugden who had the task of restoring and digitizing the old Rogue Trader and Realm of Chaos books in order for GW to do the reprints.
Well, you know what we do with Witches?
We need to figure out the exact opposite and subject Louise Sugden to them for being awesome.
Watching the Twitch steam, I found myself most excited for the narrative "historical" battle reports. Recreating the Siege of Terra with the might and resources of GW itself behind you? Yes please...
Here's a good Warhammer+ show pitch: Use the Total War Warhammer 3 game engine to recreate Old World battles in documentary format, like the old Decisive Battles show (using Rome Total War) on History Channel all those years ago.
Commisar Marbh wrote: People complaining about the price spend probably more than that on soda, coffee or snacks a day, much less a month.
It's about the price of a tactical marine at current prices.
If it's not for you, cool. But some folks are interested.
This. 60.00 a year is a very small price tag, and most people spend more than that on crummy fast food in a week. I agree. It's ok if you don't see value in it. There is nothing wrong with that. But attempting to be as gakky as possible, arguing semantics of whether something is free or not (see above), and otherwise just trying to twist this into another "GW BAD" position is kind of just awful.
It's ok to not see value in it, and I can respect that. Everyone sees value in different things for different reasons. I have rifle scopes on a few rifles that cost as much as multiple armies with all the bells and whistles. Not everyone sees value in that. But there is no need to be as nasty about it as you can or to just twist it because you have a beef with GW.
official Warhammer lore show, presented by experts.
Experts in...what?
Anyway, 50 pounds for a single model is a bit expensive, cause the rest, to me anyway, is not worth pirating let alone paying for. I'm sure plenty of people will be drawn to Official 40k wiki readings and painting tutorials thought.
Call me surprised because this is actually what I hoped GW would finally do, especially the Vault part sounds nice to me. Do we know if the books and WDs in there will be available in other languages?
After the 40K App debacle I didn't think GW would do something pretty inexpensive with seemingly good value already. And I don't even care about the minis.
Tiberias wrote: Seriously, feth GW with their exclusive model bullcrap.
I think exclusive models like this are fine. It’s just a different posed Megaboss and a Vindicare with a fancy base. It’s not really anything not available to anyone for being exclusive.
I think I might cancel white dwarf and move to this for a year. It’s only slightly more expensive (like 2 quid I think) and I think I’ll get more out of it.
Wondering what "Exclusive subscriber offers" means.
If they ever say "subscribe to the annual model and get a whooping 2% off from your next Battleforce and a paper tissue saying "Thnx" in Sharpie this December", expect to see a peak in subscribers.
Tiberias wrote: Seriously, feth GW with their exclusive model bullcrap.
I think exclusive models like this are fine. It’s just a different posed Megaboss and a Vindicare with a fancy base. It’s not really anything not available to anyone for being exclusive.
I think I might cancel white dwarf and move to this for a year. It’s only slightly more expensive (like 2 quid I think) and I think I’ll get more out of it.
I get your point. But the fact that you only get the "privilige" to own these models if you stay subscribed to their service really does sit wrong with me. And of course you are right, those two models are alternatives of existing models, but still....new sculpts from GW often are better or more detailen than the old ones. So it's not necessary to own them, but locking them behind a subscription just sucks imo.
Edit: though I will give GW credit for making it just one model per subscriber. At least thats how I understood it....so at least it's gonna be really hard for scalpers, which is always a good thing.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: By my limited and indeed massively Luddite understanding, digitising such volumes isn’t much more than paying someone to scan in the old volumes, perhaps a digital spit and polish, then save it to the right format.
It’s almost certainly more complicated than that. But I’m wondering how much more complicated?
Perhaps a Dakkanaut with actual, genuine, relevant experience of creating an exportable digital archive could chime in?
Anything from about 2000 onward (if you have the original layout file) is a push of the button to whatever format. For older stuff, it can take a couple hours for a good OCR (i.e., text copyable) scan of the document, and usually requires an original document to be cut apart into its individual pages. Once you have a good master file though, sending it to another format type is a push of a button.
That said, WotC has made most of its old D&D catalog available, usually around $4.99 USD each - and a good portion of the work was done in the 90’s (and has been redone and upscale in the last few years).
Tiberias wrote: Seriously, feth GW with their exclusive model bullcrap.
Thank you!
Seeing the new IronJawz model, a model for one of the most in dire need of new models ranges just made me livid.
Thankfully, I've moved on from 40K to things like Legion and Armada which are far better games. AoS is still fun for me, and I enjoy playing it...but god damn seeing that model pissed me the hell off.
I assume if you buy the yearly subscription which is a better price, you’ll get the model straight away. As you are fully paid for the 12 months.
It’d be weird to make you wait when you’re not paying anything for the next 12 anyway.
At that price point, I think this is a reasonable value. The mini really pushes it over the edge. If you rate a single model at $30 like GW is want to do, that leaves $30 of content. The 40k app is not worth what they charge for it alone, but if you rate it as worth a buck a month for premium access? Same for the AoS one? If you are a pure gamer, the apps and the mini are just about the price. Plus you get all the content, back library, videos etc.
If you don’t want the mini, (which I’m sure you could ebay) getting $60 a year out of this is a little rougher. But still, $5/mo for what you get is not a bad deal
Would I get more overall enjoyment out of this than another box of intercessors? Dollar per hour? I think so.
Danny76 wrote: I assume if you buy the yearly subscription which is a better price, you’ll get the model straight away. As you are fully paid for the 12 months.
It’d be weird to make you wait when you’re not paying anything for the next 12 anyway.
Might do; though they still have to produce the model itself and a lot of tehir collector models have taken a few months from ordering to get made and shipped out. That might just be Corona messing with production so it might be something that improves once GW doesn't have to work with Covid Safe Practice methods.
The other issue is refunds; if you cancel after getting your model but you've not paid a year I wonder what their policy will be then. It could create a lot of back-end issues resolving in terms of customer complaints and such. So it might be easier for GW to only give them out after you've paid and after the full year.
That said it would be a neat way to encourage people to sign up for the full year
TBH I would be more positive about this if it was genuine full, new content, instead of stuff that was availible in other channels (free good tutorials on warhammertv on youtube, fan animations on youtube, digital versions of your books, etc...) but was removed to put it behind a paywall.
But being honest , I wont miss any of that so more power for people.
I am extremely surprised with GW right now. In a pleasing way.
Dominion release was smooth as silk and Warhammer+ is not the trainwreck I admittedly wanted it to be.
I at least am very hyped for proper Masterclass videos (who knows, maybe they will bring 'Eavy Metal and Golden Demon personalities at some point).
Still, I will wait a little longer before adding an annual sub to the card. And I do wonder what those "exclusive subscriber offers" really are. I'm not expecting anything juicy, but I wouldn't be upset to get one.
Still, no Duncan to be seen anywhere, but wasn't that girl on one of the Warhammer Quest videos a while ago, with Becca, Peachy and Chris?
CMLR wrote: I am extremely surprised with GW right now. In a pleasing way.
Dominion release was smooth as silk and Warhammer+ is not the trainwreck I admittedly wanted to be.
I at least am very hyped for proper Masterclass videos (who knows, maybe they will bring 'Eavy Metal and Golden Demon personalities at some point).
Still, I will wait a little longer before adding an annual sub to the card. And I do wonder what those "exclusive subscriber offers" really are. I'm not expecting anything juicy, but I wouldn't be upset to get one.
Still, no Duncan to be seen anywhere, but wasn't that girl on one of the Warhammer Quest videos a while ago, with Becca, Peachy and Chris?
You just earned my respect (not that my respect is some great prize to win). I'm glad you were surprised, but most importantly, i respectfully appreciate the fact that you were honest with your desires and intentions regarding this launch. That speaks volumes of character, even on an anonymous forum.
You know, I think their price is straight out the Disney playbook.
Hands up honesty, I loved Disney+ from the outset, because I got a years worth for £50, which was a cheaper deal than anyone else in that industry was offering. And since then, to Disney’s credit, they’ve added more and more, the Star (at least outside the USA so far I’m aware, I can’t help but be Eurocentric) without jacking up the price.
£5 a month? £5. What else can I get for that? Well my local pub is on the cheaper end of the local market, and my pint is £4.20. Takeaway pizza? £15 minimum in my neck of then woods.
So, £5 month (less than that when I go for the annual, because ostensible bargain, at £50)?
Yeah. For me, and me alone, it’s barely going to dent my pocket.
Danny76 wrote: I assume if you buy the yearly subscription which is a better price, you’ll get the model straight away. As you are fully paid for the 12 months.
It’d be weird to make you wait when you’re not paying anything for the next 12 anyway.
The other issue is refunds; if you cancel after getting your model but you've not paid a year I wonder what their policy will be then.
Well it’s covered by that, that’s why I suggested that as an option.
If you pay a year you have paid the full. And if not then we already know they give it at the end of a year.
But yeah as you say a good way to get people to sub maybe.
White dwarf subs when they had the actually free model was the same, you paid for a year and got the model at the start.
(Or the Warhammer fortress for a two year sub back in the day)
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: By my limited and indeed massively Luddite understanding, digitising such volumes isn’t much more than paying someone to scan in the old volumes, perhaps a digital spit and polish, then save it to the right format.
It’s almost certainly more complicated than that. But I’m wondering how much more complicated?
Perhaps a Dakkanaut with actual, genuine, relevant experience of creating an exportable digital archive could chime in?
it's a little more complicated. awhile back Battletech (I think under fanpro at the time) digitized the original house books and put them out for free. it was more complicated then just copying something, but in this case they had to remove all the old unseen mech images, something that GW won't have to worry about,
I like the vindicare but I also feel like I could convert something like that myself using the current model. I'm not sure. I don't care for the content either so would be purely for the model. Got a month or two to think on it anyways.
The real issue is with things like OCR if you want your scanned book to be more than just an image. OCR can get terribly messed up by anything that isn't very standard modern English.
At which point a lot rests on the shoulders of the person doing the scanning to ensure that its all copied over correctly.
My father has some reprinted books that are published from scans of old publications and they are full of mistakes on the latin names for things because the scanner doesn't have latin and can't auto correct it.
Warhammer would have the same issue as there's a lot of non-standard words and such. So scanning to make an image is easy, but an actual digital book with text you can highlight, search, and otherwise work with takes a bit more work to complete.
Danny76 wrote: I assume if you buy the yearly subscription which is a better price, you’ll get the model straight away. As you are fully paid for the 12 months.
It’d be weird to make you wait when you’re not paying anything for the next 12 anyway.
I'm not sure. The Community page does state mote T&C will be revealed soon.
If someone is already an App subscriber:
Already a Warhammer 40,000 app subscriber? As a way of saying thanks, if you upgrade your subscription into a Warhammer+ sub in the first month after its launch, you’ll get your exclusive free model after nine months, rather than 12. That’s three months earlier than everyone else!
Even better, as an existing Warhammer 40,000 app subscriber, if you take out a full year’s subscription, you’ll receive an additional free gift too.
Best offer so far is 3 months early for the model!
It's nice seeing him have fun painting some other models like Fallout, Star Wars and A Song of Ice and Fire in addition to GW minis.
Thanks. But I'm fully aware of it since he left years ago. Still, it would've been funny to see him return for the Masterclass. Maybe he would grace us as a special guess for an episode?
Not sure what to make of it... I havent watched their stream so just going based on what's on the website.
Is it me or its basically the App being up priced but now with marketing mumbo jumbo you're expected to pay for.
The WD back catalogue is interesting. But if they going to add issues at they are released and g OOP whose going to bother buying the physical copies...
I wonder if this will mean the AOS app is now also going behind a pay wall
Will they be pulling things off YouTube
Getting a free mini is interesting. Not sure Ho I feel about the tiny base and spindly scaffolding for the assassin. Going to need some conversion work.
5.99 / £72PA.. Lets say (-£24 for the figure)
It really just seems like they wwantm e to pay them for and app that kind of sucks, and the privilege for them to push marketing on me..
CMLR wrote: I am extremely surprised with GW right now. In a pleasing way.
Dominion release was smooth as silk and Warhammer+ is not the trainwreck I admittedly wanted it to be.
I at least am very hyped for proper Masterclass videos (who knows, maybe they will bring 'Eavy Metal and Golden Demon personalities at some point).
Still, I will wait a little longer before adding an annual sub to the card. And I do wonder what those "exclusive subscriber offers" really are. I'm not expecting anything juicy, but I wouldn't be upset to get one.
Still, no Duncan to be seen anywhere, but wasn't that girl on one of the Warhammer Quest videos a while ago, with Becca, Peachy and Chris?
She is Louise Sugden, who is a phenomenal hobbiest.
Best offer so far is 3 months early for the model!
I do like how so far the best part of their Multimedia Project is the limited edition model apparently.
I don't think it's quite the reaction they were hoping for when they paid for the shows lol.
Tiberias wrote: Seriously, feth GW with their exclusive model bullcrap.
Thank you!
Seeing the new IronJawz model, a model for one of the most in dire need of new models ranges just made me livid.
Thankfully, I've moved on from 40K to things like Legion and Armada which are far better games. AoS is still fun for me, and I enjoy playing it...but god damn seeing that model pissed me the hell off.
Say what now? That entire range is like 6 years old. How are Ironjaws in "dire need" of new models?
Best offer so far is 3 months early for the model!
I do like how so far the best part of their Multimedia Project is the limited edition model apparently.
I don't think it's quite the reaction they were hoping for when they paid for the shows lol.
we don't have eneugh info about the shows to be excited for them, it's not like say disney plus where we KNOW the marvel shows are gonna be great.
Best offer so far is 3 months early for the model!
I do like how so far the best part of their Multimedia Project is the limited edition model apparently.
I don't think it's quite the reaction they were hoping for when they paid for the shows lol.
Maybe they will just.. focus on doing awesome models because they are primarily a model company.
Who knows. I wish them well but for me, theres literly nothing of value in there apart form the model.
It really seems like a WH40k ecosystem tax.
Im like bruh.. You already charge £32 for 5 banshees... Seems plenty tax. : D
Sure, but you'd think people would be at least buzzed about the chance of them being good. Instead it's pretty much all "oooh model included in price and old white dwarfs" being the selling point.
I'm fine with people deciding it's good value, but i still think it's funny that Warhammer Netflix's biggest draw has nothing to do with media.
Cronch wrote: Sure, but you'd think people would be at least buzzed about the chance of them being good. Instead it's pretty much all "oooh model included in price and old white dwarfs" being the selling point.
I'm fine with people deciding it's good value, but i still think it's funny that Warhammer Netflix's biggest draw has nothing to do with media.
I don't know how true that is, to be honest. Anecdotally, looking at Valraks feed, the discussion on Auspex Tactics YT channel, and my own group locally, it seems like most people were excited about the animations, but because we know that as a known quantity, the add-ins, the new news as it were, is generating the buzz, but I don't think its the draw to it.
No data to support that, other than my own impressions, but it feels a bit different. Just an opinion.
A whole year before you get the mini hey? And you don't even get both. The second one you have to buy on top of the subscription. Yeah that tracks.
Anyway, as I've said on dozens of occasions: Games Workshop never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
Why, oh why, oh why, are the exclusive miniatures not tied to their new animations?
Why aren't the first minis a suite of characters from the Blood Angel thing, or an assortment of Hammer & Bolter characters? Or something like that? Why have they, like with every alternate-media venture GW has ever been part of, not done something to capitalise on that? Why a massively impractical Vindicare miniature and another big Orc? Both are very nice looking miniatures, but what have they got to do with the rest of their content?
Anyway, that's a lot of money for well-produced Battle Reports (already free on the Internet in many different places) and high-level painting videos (already free on the Internet in many different places).
If the app came with the rules, and wasn't something you had to put further funds into because GW stopped doing digital Codices then maybe - maybe - I could see the value there, but right now paying money for a trickle animation release, things I can get elsewhere, and a year wait for the opportunity to buy another model seems like nothing worth paying for.
Tiberias wrote: Seriously, feth GW with their exclusive model bullcrap.
Thank you!
Seeing the new IronJawz model, a model for one of the most in dire need of new models ranges just made me livid.
Thankfully, I've moved on from 40K to things like Legion and Armada which are far better games. AoS is still fun for me, and I enjoy playing it...but god damn seeing that model pissed me the hell off.
Say what now? That entire range is like 6 years old. How are Ironjaws in "dire need" of new models?
Their so-called entire range is 7 kits, 3 of which are a single monopose dude. The Maw-Krusha, the Warchanter, the Megaboss, the Brutes, the 'Ardboys, the Gore-Gruntas, and the Weirdnob.
The lack of buzz on the animations is because we don't know what they'll be like and we burned out of the "OMG VIDEOS" buzz about a year back.
Right now we have basically waited a long time and gone through all the "OMG it could be awesome" or "OMG its going to be the worst thing ever" extremes. Chatter is burned out on them so we are waiting for the actual things to release.
So yeah the models ARE distracting right now because we already know how good GW are with making models. We know what they'll be like; how they'll likely go together; how big they'll be etc... Plus we are model fans FIRST and film fans second as a general community.
So yeah we are most excited about the known quantity element that we are most engaged with.
The rest is partly known production standards or totally unknown.
We are now very much in wait and see mode. Iexpect TV show excitement will start to pick up in the run up weeks toward launch; when we've weeks, days, hours until they land. THEN we'll see that bubble go nova (either super positive or negative after watching the first show)
H.B.M.C. wrote: Why, oh why, oh why, are the exclusive miniatures not tied to their new animations?
I remember seeing one Ass²in in one of the animation previews. So one is going to be on the new animations, for a fact.
Megaboss? Yeah, nothing here to be seen yet, but we've got to remember that AoS 3.0 will have a Destruction focus.
What's lame is that they will be the models for the entire year and not for a semester or so. I highly doubt any of both will be relevant for an entire year.
Perfectly willing to accept that the minis are related to some of their animations, but Angels of Death or whatever the Blood Angel animation is called is their headliner. Forget the "Not more Marines!" rhetoric: Characters from that show should have been their first release.
A box that comes with the Termy Captain, the Chaplain, the two other guys, and especially the fleet commander lady, and you'd have my subscription.
Anyway, that's a lot of money for well-produced Battle Reports (already free on the Internet in many different places) and high-level painting videos (already free on the Internet in many different places).
Most well-produced batreps put lots of content behind paywalls. Strangely no one criticizes them for profiting off work that takes a serious amount of time, and in some cases is the primary job of the content creators.
Not much different for GW. They are paying people to produce content. You're welcome to not pay for it if you don't see value in it. But even your "free" content creators are actively seeking money for their work. Not sure why GW should be expected to provide that for free when others only have these for profit content channels based in work created by GW.
That said, I honestly had little interest in Warhammer+ prior to today. Ultimately the model(s) included after a 12 month sub and the digital archive content is more appealing to me than the shows or the app. I'm sure I'll still enjoy them but if that were the only offerings I'd likely pass. But for $60 for a year, and an amazing Vindicare model? Easy choice for me to pay for a year sub to try it out. I'd easily spend more going out with my wife to a craft brew pub for drinks and a meal on a weekend.
Cronch wrote: Sure, but you'd think people would be at least buzzed about the chance of them being good. Instead it's pretty much all "oooh model included in price and old white dwarfs" being the selling point.
I'm fine with people deciding it's good value, but i still think it's funny that Warhammer Netflix's biggest draw has nothing to do with media.
I don't know how true that is, to be honest. Anecdotally, looking at Valraks feed, the discussion on Auspex Tactics YT channel, and my own group locally, it seems like most people were excited about the animations, but because we know that as a known quantity, the add-ins, the new news as it were, is generating the buzz, but I don't think its the draw to it.
No data to support that, other than my own impressions, but it feels a bit different. Just an opinion.
I suspect that it's also in part because the general consensus back when this was first announced was that the animations were potentially good, but weren't in themselves sufficient content volume to make a subscription worthwhile. So everyone's been waiting to find out what else would be included, and that's where the focus is now as a result.
For my money, the animations are the only part that I find at all interesting. I stopped buying White Dwarf years ago when I realised that I wasn't getting anything out of it. I'd buy the latest issue, flick through it for anything particularly noteworthy, and put it on the shelf with the others. And there are loads of free painting and modeling tutorials available all over the place online. The minis are nice, but not 'must have' nice. So until their animation catalogue fills up significantly, this remains on the 'Not worth paying for' list.
I think models from the animations will happen, but GW might be waiting to see which animations and which characters actually prove popular to cast.
They might have a bunch already ready in development and just paused at the mould production end to see which ones are worth investing into.
IT can be really hard to predict what will and won't be popular. Heck take Goat Sim; a game that is very popular and yet it was a comical tech demo and nothing more when it came out. Now its a full game with merch nad everything.
So sometimes its good to wait and see what really proves popular.
And I'm also all for generic units too. Things you can actually use in game without them having to be a special character with a name and stats and al.
If we do go the route of "you're basically paying xxx amount of money just for a model", I think it's important to bring up that the current vindicare somehow costs $36 dollars.
Spoiler:
Also the megaboss is $40 normally, which is more reasonable given his size. The vindicare doesn't get that excuse.
So for $24 (or less) more, you get a cooler pose, a more dynamic base, and then just whatever else Warhammer+ comes with. Which is why I'm glad they didn't just make it something like the store exclusive Cryptek/overlord/stormcast. Those models, while cool, are harder to justify spending more money (imo and also if we ignore the app features). Though, I guess that's what the White Dwarf annual model usually is...
CMLR wrote: I am extremely surprised with GW right now. In a pleasing way.
Dominion release was smooth as silk and Warhammer+ is not the trainwreck I admittedly wanted it to be.
I at least am very hyped for proper Masterclass videos (who knows, maybe they will bring 'Eavy Metal and Golden Demon personalities at some point).
Still, I will wait a little longer before adding an annual sub to the card. And I do wonder what those "exclusive subscriber offers" really are. I'm not expecting anything juicy, but I wouldn't be upset to get one.
Still, no Duncan to be seen anywhere, but wasn't that girl on one of the Warhammer Quest videos a while ago, with Becca, Peachy and Chris?
She is Louise Sugden, who is a phenomenal hobbiest.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Perfectly willing to accept that the minis are related to some of their animations, but Angels of Death or whatever the Blood Angel animation is called is their headliner. Forget the "Not more Marines!" rhetoric: Characters from that show should have been their first release.
A box that comes with the Termy Captain, the Chaplain, the two other guys, and especially the fleet commander lady, and you'd have my subscription.
the vidicare makes some sense in that it can be slotted easily into an IoM army and thus maximizes demand. and yeah is presumably based off one of the animations. the Orruk, I suspect may just be a mini design they where sitting on and snagged it when they realized they needed SOMETHING for AOS
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I'm just wondering how long until we get models that aren't simply alternate sculpts.
Given that over the last 30 years or so the vast majority of GW's limited edition models have been alternate sculpts, probably a while.That's not really bad thing. People get upset enough when they are unable to access limited release models. When they're something that's actually unique, that can just exacerbate the problem.
Although the Vindicare is only really 'simply an alternate sculpt' if you look solely at the assassin himself. As a complete piece, it's rather unlike anything GW have done before, and 15 years ago when I had more disposable income I would have been all over it.
Starfarer wrote: Most well-produced batreps put lots of content behind paywalls.
And a lot don't... so... what, exactly?
My point is that GW isn't offering anything that hasn't been done before - for free - with batreps/painting/lore videos. You want me to spend money on your subscription, there has to be something worth spending the money on.
I have a Rooster Teeth subscription. It's not the cheapest thing in the world, and the perks you get aside from their content are pretty sparse. Nevertheless, I can easily get 1 hour plus of new entertaining content from that subscription every single day and I only watch a fraction of their output. I can't imagine what W+ is going to have to justify that cost, especially given so much of what they're offering is available for free everywhere else.
Starfarer wrote: Most well-produced batreps put lots of content behind paywalls.
My point is that GW isn't offering anything that hasn't been done before - for free - with batreps/painting/lore videos. You want me to spend money on your subscription, there has to be something worth spending the money on.
Easy-peasy! They'll simply copyright strike any of those channels doing it for free.
Starfarer wrote: Most well-produced batreps put lots of content behind paywalls.
And a lot don't... so... what, exactly?
My point is that GW isn't offering anything that hasn't been done before - for free - with batreps/painting/lore videos. You want me to spend money on your subscription, there has to be something worth spending the money on.
I have a Rooster Teeth subscription. It's not the cheapest thing in the world, and the perks you get aside from their content are pretty sparse. Nevertheless, I can easily get 1 hour plus of new entertaining content from that subscription every single day and I only watch a fraction of their output. I can't imagine what W+ is going to have to justify that cost, especially given so much of what they're offering is available for free everywhere else.
But free model. You get an exclusive model... for free. Model free. Free model. Buy now!
Looking over their Community page, this is a compelling offer for Warhammer fans. There's going to be stuff to watch, there's going to be stuff to read, there's fiction, there's hobby guides, there's watching them play battle reports as an excuse to market their own models directly to you, there's a model at the end of the year (I wonder if you have to pay shipping). It reminds me of getting excited about a magazine in the 90s and getting a yearly description. The hype in a jazzed person's mind is not getting balanced out by the knowledge you can get this stuff from other people for free. I'm not getting it, but I can see how you would.
streetsamurai wrote: Im no lawyer, but i dont think it would be legally possible to copyright such things
It merely needs to have a chilling effect on those channels.
Maliciously abusing the copyright system could cost GW money though.
I think TTT for example could afford a half decent lawyer.
I don't think that ever stopped any large company from abusing the system.
Besides, if they copyright enough creators with enough consistency they can make back any money they lost by stealing their ad revenue.
GW content wont get ad revenue if its in house though.
I certainly would completely drop GW like hot potato if they started going after bat rep creators.
I mean if they want to fortify and consolidate their market share and fan base through adverse action its fine I guess... They do them. But I don't think there's a longevity in that strategy. The content creators and painters are a massive part of the community and great free marketing.
streetsamurai wrote: Im no lawyer, but i dont think it would be legally possible to copyright such things
It merely needs to have a chilling effect on those channels.
Maliciously abusing the copyright system could cost GW money though.
I think TTT for example could afford a half decent lawyer.
I don't think that ever stopped any large company from abusing the system.
Besides, if they copyright enough creators with enough consistency they can make back any money they lost by stealing their ad revenue.
GW content wont get ad revenue if its in house though.
I certainly would completely drop GW like hot potato if they started going after bat rep creators.
I mean if they want to fortify and consolidate their market share and fan base through adverse action its fine I guess... They do them. But I don't think there's a longevity in that strategy. The content creators and painters are a massive part of the community and great free marketing.
If this whole thing showed us anything, it's that GW seemingly hates free marketing
GW won't need to go after third party videos. they can, presumably, afford a higher production standard then useal and even if not they have a trick no one else does, they can canonnize the outcome of a narrative BR. people STILL talk about some of the old WD BRs after all. that said I doubt battlereports are gonna be the reason anyone subscribes
GW's also presumably going to have an edge on painting videos and there's something to be said for learning from a single series that uses a single line of paints etc. to often I'll go to third parties videos and it's some guy who doesn't explain things ("I used a zenithil highlight, no I'm not explaining how that is or how to do it" etc) likewise because so many use differant paints etc it can become a challange. with GW's stuff you know it's one line of paints and where to get it at least (and figuring out direct subsitutions is a lot easier as everyone knows the brand.)
so yeah I think the painting videos will be an atteactant. I imagine I'm just the kinda person who'll benifit from it. I've learned a fair bit from GW's videos, and really about all I can. I'm ready to try more advanced stuff.
Will I subscribe? hard to say just yet. TBH I might wait until after launch anbd see if it has eneugh at launch to be worthwhile.
Just earlier I was thinking GW needs to bring back alternate sculpts for generic characters. Didn’t intend to have to pay $60 for a streaming service to get one of them though.
zend wrote: Just earlier I was thinking GW needs to bring back alternate sculpts for generic characters. Didn’t intend to have to pay $60 for a streaming service to get one of them though.
Or just multi-part multi-pose multi-option characters. We know they can do it. They did quite a few of them.
Starfarer wrote: Most well-produced batreps put lots of content behind paywalls.
And a lot don't... so... what, exactly?
My point is that GW isn't offering anything that hasn't been done before - for free - with batreps/painting/lore videos. You want me to spend money on your subscription, there has to be something worth spending the money on.
I have a Rooster Teeth subscription. It's not the cheapest thing in the world, and the perks you get aside from their content are pretty sparse. Nevertheless, I can easily get 1 hour plus of new entertaining content from that subscription every single day and I only watch a fraction of their output. I can't imagine what W+ is going to have to justify that cost, especially given so much of what they're offering is available for free everywhere else.
Except they are doing things that haven't been done before. They are producing animated shows well beyond the handful of fan productions that amount to about a movie trailer's length of content.
They are digitizing their printed media. They are offering in depth lore videos direct from the creators.
If the value isn't there for you, so be it. But to act like it's objectively poor value because you like fan versions of some content better isn't a great argument imo.
Funny you mention Rooster Teeth. They ran a Kickstarter and took in over $2M from fans to produce a movie, turned around and sold the company to Fullscreen Media before making the movie, and only then ramped up content in a paid monthly service after they sold the company to said digital media company. Then the company was sold again to an AT&T subsidiary a few years later. They also fired most of the staff that was there in the early days aside from the in screen talent and executive level staff. I know because I worked for a RT partner company for years during that time.
Starfarer wrote: Except they are doing things that haven't been done before. They are producing animated shows well beyond the handful of fan productions that amount to about a movie trailer's length of content.
I'm not confident that a few short animations trickled out over Emperor-knows how long is enough to sustain the service. Disney+ got by for a year with almost nothing to show for it based on good will and the promise of lots to come. Warhammer+ ain't Disney+.
Their old printed material. That's good from an archival perspective at least, but being able to access old rule books (likely only through the D+ app) is hardly an incentive to pay per month.
Starfarer wrote: They are offering in depth lore videos direct from the creators.
Which will offer what, exactly? Are they going to add to, expand or change the lore? Unlikely, so again, other than perhaps higher production values and music that would get a regular YouTuber a copyright strike, what's on offer here?
Starfarer wrote: If the value isn't there for you, so be it. But to act like it's objectively poor value because you like fan versions of some content better isn't a great argument imo.
That's a misrepresentation. I'm not disliking it because I like fan versions more. I dislike it because it's GW (once again) attempting to be the hobby, rather than just being part of the hobby.
Starfarer wrote: Funny you mention Rooster Teeth. They ran a Kickstarter and took in over $2M from fans to produce a movie, turned around and sold the company to Fullscreen Media before making the movie, and only then ramped up content in a paid monthly service after they sold the company to said digital media company. Then the company was sold again to an AT&T subsidiary a few years later. They also fired most of the staff that was there in the early days aside from the in screen talent and executive level staff. I know because I worked for a RT partner company for years during that time.
Ok then. I didn't actually know about the Kickstarter, TBH. I tend not to interface with the Rooster Teeth fandom (or even the AH fandom) as I find it cloying and incapable of seeing flaws in anything RT/AH does.
I'd like to know the fluff justification for Vindicares being issued terrain on walking stilts. Doesn't seem like the stealthiest approach but then I'm not a highly trained assassin. From a gameplay perspective it seems like an incredibly awkward model to put where you would usually put a Vindicare i.e high up and well hidden.
I wouldn't in a million years pay for this but I kind of want to see GWs take on battle reports. I'm imagining insane levels of cringe as GW treat battle reports like ads for models rather than entertainment. I can see them taking known underpowered units and trying to hype them by feigning enthusiasm or just straight up fudging match ups or outcomes to make them look better.
Except they are doing things that haven't been done before. They are producing animated shows well beyond the handful of fan productions that amount to about a movie trailer's length of content.
They are digitizing their printed media. They are offering in depth lore videos direct from the creators.
If the value isn't there for you, so be it. But to act like it's objectively poor value because you like fan versions of some content better isn't a great argument imo.
well, digital media and an archive of old stuff, was already there before, from GW and for free
GW tried different kinds of getting movies done for 40k, it is not the first time we see animations either, it was just not very good in the past (so usually just 1 DvD per Club)
Master Class painting videos, whatever that means. Their normal videos are not very good so paying to get better ones while other creators make Master Class vidoes for free (with the possibility to pay them afterwards) that are way ahead of the "advertising GW paints" videos
Lore Videos from GW are new, but without knowing how deep they are, not worth paying ahead as there is the chance it is similar ot the "deep" WD lore articles
Overall, GW made a good example of how modern App marketing works
Set a ridiculous price point for low quality product (the initial 40k App), wait a little bit, either add content that was free prior or a discount that is still overpriced, so now people get the impression they are saving a lot and get enough for their money to justify it
a free model is only free if you would have bought it anyway, if you never wanted to buy one of those in the first place, it is not free
the animations are worth a month or 2, depends on how much time you have to watch those (similar like people waited until a season of a new show is done, sub 1 month, watch all in 1 go and leave, seen with Mandalorian, Star Trek, etc.)
so everyone who thought the App was already worth the money are happy to get so much more, for others not so much if the other content is not of interest
and that AoS goes the same way with no e-books any more is a big no for that game as well for me
Sim-Life wrote: I'd like to know the fluff justification for Vindicares being issued terrain on walking stilts. Doesn't seem like the stealthiest approach but then I'm not a highly trained assassin. From a gameplay perspective it seems like an incredibly awkward model to put where you would usually put a Vindicare i.e high up and well hidden.
Same justification on that poor Primaris SGT who has to keep lugging the hacked up Ork torso around because he can't get his chainsword out of its neck?
Argive wrote: I wonder if this will mean the AOS app is now also going behind a pay wall
The AoS app is already paid. It's $2 a month.
My bad thought it was free.
It gives you every unit Warscroll in the game for free. It charges you $1 a month for the list builder. You can buy digital rulebooks thru the app at heavy discounts. You need to have purchased a digital book thru the app to be able to read the rules for stuff like faction bonuses and battalions in the list builder.
It sounds like this app will be going away though and they’re replacing it with a new one, which will be a monumental shame as it’s quite better than the 40k app, which STILL has mistakes in list building and missing rules sections from codexes.
GW don't need to copyright strike youtube videos to still have them removed. If W+ is popular enough, they can simple pull traffic away from other services like youtube by being big enough. Add in having enough money to grab one or two of the more popular youtubers (like they did with animations) and having free hobby content will sort of start to fizzle out. GW already know that a good proportion of their customer base are of the mindset of 'official or nothing'.
I might sign up for the first year, at the very least I'd get most of the money back for flogging the model. Five quid a month isn't terrible value, I was honestly expecting it to be €20 a month. I'm just hesitant as I don't' think this is very healthy for the hobby overall and content wise, they seem to have been very careful about what they are putting out to start with.
A years worth of 2020s white dwarf seems like good value- I'd never need to buy white dwarf again. There is nothing in white dwarf that needs to be use the month it comes out any more, its not how anyone gets their release news any more. The handful of hobby articles a year I'm interested in hasn't been worth the cost of the magazine so I stopped buying it a couple of years ago now. But I don't expect them to suddenly throw up say the entire collection of white dwarf content and rules for Mordheim again- I dont seem them advertising games or editions that are long OOP. Gathering storm makes sense as the lore in there matches up to the current 40k run. I do see them clamping down even harder on things like white dwarf PDFs being shared online. If they did share say all of Mordheim, I can see them c&d'ing all the fan pages that host the rules right now. Which is why I think its bad for the hobby. Fan sites kept games alive and make them accessible to people even now. Yes, its gw right to host their own content, but I think that comes at a cost of having a healthy community driven hobby.
The animations are a disappointment. Split in to 10 min segments. I honestly thought they would be quality 30-60 mins at a time. Seems like they have just slapped a price tag on the fan made animations from youtube. I'm not really interested in sitting down once a week to watch 10 mins of content. I assume that you can probably binge it once the show has finished its overall run, but most of it will be spoiled by then from people posting about it online. I dont' watch a lot of TV anyway and when I do, I like to actually sit down and watch it, 10mins of content is just youtube sized content with a price tag.
The loremaster videos can put the youtube ones out of business, by claiming to be done by 'experts' ie the people that write the lore in the first place, it doesn't take much for them to tweak it so youtube lore videos are 'wrong' or for them to add new things that outside creators have no way of including in their videos.
On the surface if feels like its a good deal- £5 a month from GW is astonishing after all. But I do think that if you look at it a little deeper, it feels very half arsed knowing that people will pay for it as its 'official'. I've already seen the arguments saying that people shouldn't get any of this for free, yet we've had most of this for free on youtube for a long time.
Wasn't super interested in the animations, but the overall package seems pretty good and like the mini, plus the price is pretty decent (for now).
One thing though (maybe this has been mentioned, but I haven't seen anything about it) is the accessibility of the content, seems like it is going to be through a specific app but not really interested in watching on a phone or tablet. Has there been any talk of apps for other devices like AppleTV etc.?
Starfarer wrote: Most well-produced batreps put lots of content behind paywalls.
And a lot don't... so... what, exactly?
My point is that GW isn't offering anything that hasn't been done before - for free - with batreps/painting/lore videos. You want me to spend money on your subscription, there has to be something worth spending the money on.
I have a Rooster Teeth subscription. It's not the cheapest thing in the world, and the perks you get aside from their content are pretty sparse. Nevertheless, I can easily get 1 hour plus of new entertaining content from that subscription every single day and I only watch a fraction of their output. I can't imagine what W+ is going to have to justify that cost, especially given so much of what they're offering is available for free everywhere else.
If you have a Rooster Teeth subscription, then you lost all credibility here as criticizer. Most of their videos are stupid gak you find for free on youtube, with a worse video player. And their good animations can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
Warhammer + just needs to do like all paid content like Miniwargaming do : just release one or two videos per day. If it's painting guide / battlereports / lore videos, it's easily done with a dedicated team. GW definitely has the ressources to do this.
They don't need to copyright other youtubers' battlereports. They'll just do it with professionnal means.
Also, being able to consult old books online ? Yeah, worth it.
Can always subscribe once they put more content and cancel when you don't want it anymore. Like with Miniwargaming when they release their campaign videos.
I'd say GW of today has a slightly better grasp of the internet than Nintendo seems to show (or has shown in the recent past).
Also all this talk of GW sending takedowns to painters and battlereports is pure daftness. At worst it will be what was said above, that GW will hoover up so many subscribers that the others don't stand a chance; at best we might see some move into the GW system (which for the content providers might be better for them in shifting to a regular paid wage for the content they produce).
In the end it is what it is and I doubt GW is going to suddenly try and dominate the market, they don't need to. They've spent too many decades and too much marketing marketing the hobby not the brand. They can't shut down the hobby and honestly they don't benefit from it anyway. Loads of other channels making this content is a good thing for GW. Even if they don't get your money for their side gig all those painters and gamers are encouraging you to pay money for GW's main gig - models. The whole Warhammer + can fail and it won't hurt GW in the least in terms of their core product.
GW doesn't have to be aggressive with Warhammer+ as a service.
GW doesn't have to be aggressive with Warhammer+ as a service.
Exactly. They just need to be there.
Like Warhammer Community relentless articles taking over most of the previous rumor websites, because they simply can't beat their stream of official information.
We now take most of our Warhammer news from the Warhammer Community website, let's face it.
GW can definitely make it work, but I expect to be having a few quacks at the start. May be best to wait and see once more content is there, and you can always watch what was done previously later. At least, I hope we will be able to.
Yes, sure, but will they resist the allure of walled garden? They could do what they did to their miniature business- convince people that Warhammer+ is THE hobby, just like they convinced people GW is THE hobby. It's so tempting to be able to control all the communication channels to the consumers.
Will they do it? I don't know, we'll see. But I am sure someone in the management thought about it at least for a while.
Overread wrote: They've spent too many decades and too much marketing marketing the hobby not the brand. They can't shut down the hobby and honestly they don't benefit from it anyway [...]
GW doesn't have to be aggressive with Warhammer+ as a service.
they didn't need to do lot of stuff that they actually did, but we don't know what their strategy is
and they have marketed "the brand" as being "the hobby", and for enough people when they say to get into or quit "the hobby" the mean GW stuff
could be that they want to take it slow to see were it goes, or take it fast and act against content outside their service
yet the long term goal is that there is no hobby outside GW and although they can't shut it down, their marketing towards that goal is very successful
Cronch wrote: Yes, sure, but will they resist the allure of walled garden? They could do what they did to their miniature business- convince people that Warhammer+ is THE hobby, just like they convinced people GW is THE hobby.
When GW talks about "The Hobby", it's always about GW products. Duh.
Just like Mantic Games would rather talk about their own miniatures and games on their official channels - because that's exactly their point.
Youtube channels doing videos about a variety of miniature wargames will simply do what they did before : embrace the hobby in general, and not just with products from one company.
Warhammer + isn't a brain washing machine. It's just online videos and products about GW's stuff. I certainly don't expect their video makers to suddenly talk about what happens in Pannithor with the Mantic Games KOW august campaign...
GW doesn't have to be aggressive with Warhammer+ as a service.
Exactly. They just need to be there.
Like Warhammer Community relentless articles taking over most of the previous rumor websites, because they simply can't beat their stream of official information.
We now take most of our Warhammer news from the Warhammer Community website, let's face it.
GW can definitely make it work, but I expect to be having a few quacks at the start. May be best to wait and see once more content is there, and you can always watch what was done previously later. At least, I hope we will be able to.
In fairness prior to GW making the community page and actually using the internet, GW didn't really do online news at all. They did the release day and they did it through White Dwarf, but there was a surprisingly long period in the Kirby era where GW refused to really use the internet much at all as a marketing and communication tool. Which was surprising considering its basically a geek hobby with most staff being geeks of some description and with most of their competition (and indeed most brands) going nuts on using the net at that stage.
But yeah these days most of the news sites are just regurgitating what GW says. They remain viable because of collective news in bringing out news on other games and other events and such - and then there's one or two who just remain viable by posting click-bait titles and shoving ads into every corner they can.
GW doesn't need to "police the internet". As I said a Battle Report on a Warhammer game benefits GW. GW doesn't need to shut down those channels or force them into Warhammer+. Those Battle Reports are doing GW's marketing for them for FREE. GW won't want to shut that down.
The only ones they've taken a stance toward are those producing original works - eg films/animations - using the GW Brand and even without Warhammer+ GW would be in the right to shut those down.
The only grey area would be if GW tried to shut down patreons and paid for Battle Reports, but even then I don't think its worth it for them. At best they might pluck the best for their own Warhammer + but shutting them down isn't a net gain. It's marketing GW stuff, its marketing it at a higher level than the free and its promoting the GW brand all for GW at 0 cost to GW and honestly 0 lost revenue to GW
In fairness prior to GW making the community page and actually using the internet, GW didn't really do online news at all. They did the release day and they did it through White Dwarf, but there was a surprisingly long period in the Kirby era where GW refused to really use the internet much at all as a marketing and communication tool. Which was surprising considering its basically a geek hobby with most staff being geeks of some description and with most of their competition (and indeed most brands) going nuts on using the net at that stage.
But yeah these days most of the news sites are just regurgitating what GW says. They remain viable because of collective news in bringing out news on other games and other events and such - and then there's one or two who just remain viable by posting click-bait titles and shoving ads into every corner they can.
GW doesn't need to "police the internet". As I said a Battle Report on a Warhammer game benefits GW. GW doesn't need to shut down those channels or force them into Warhammer+. Those Battle Reports are doing GW's marketing for them for FREE. GW won't want to shut that down.
The only ones they've taken a stance toward are those producing original works - eg films/animations - using the GW Brand and even without Warhammer+ GW would be in the right to shut those down.
The only grey area would be if GW tried to shut down patreons and paid for Battle Reports, but even then I don't think its worth it for them. At best they might pluck the best for their own Warhammer + but shutting them down isn't a net gain. It's marketing GW stuff, its marketing it at a higher level than the free and its promoting the GW brand all for GW at 0 cost to GW and honestly 0 lost revenue to GW
Absolutely. That's why GW just needs to be there. Before they did the Warhammer Community stuff, there was no real place to find official information on a daily basis, so plenty of sites were made for that. Once GW did that move, the need for others sites simply plummeted. Only a few stayed, the others dropped the ball because it was simply not worth it anymore.
As for independant teams doing paid battlereports, it only applies to those who do GW games only. Even so, most of them have a good fanbase now. They may lose a few subscribers here and there, but I think it's perfectly possible to stay subscribed to them and stick with Warhammer + as well. And I also think GW has really no need nor envy to try to take them down with copyright claims. Purpose of Warhammer + is...giving more Warhammer, in the end. Even if you play the same armies, every battlereport is different after all.
Like HBMC keeps his Rooster Teeth subscription and just spend one hour or so per day. You don't especially need to keep watching on just one channel the whole day (even if you still can, I guess ).
Let's hope so, even if I can't stand warhammertubers as a general, I'd hate for people to lose income because a corp decided to muscle in on their turf with "official" product.
At £4-5 a month for this market segment Warhammer+ is very easy to keep along with any other subscriptions. A to rate painter is going to keep their fans; heck who knows Warhammer+ could even increase revenue for some of them in terms of introducing more causal people to the whole idea of paid for streamed services for their hobby.
Another thing to consider is that I wonder what might happen to White Dwarf. For a long time its been very beginner level, Warhammer + has the potential to be the advanced level content that many have wanted for a long time. Or at least the more in depth and detailed (eg their battle reports are rather bland these days I find - quick summaries not in depth talks or blow by blow accounts).
I do wonder if in a few years GW might even shift entirly to digital - WD getting smaller or more selective focused with more content appearing on Warhammer +. It might even one day shift ot a fully digital magazine - not something I want to happen ,but at the same time I'm already considering switching subscriptions (so even if I don't want it I'm encouraging it to start with).
Cronch wrote: Yes, sure, but will they resist the allure of walled garden? They could do what they did to their miniature business- convince people that Warhammer+ is THE hobby, just like they convinced people GW is THE hobby. It's so tempting to be able to control all the communication channels to the consumers.
Will they do it? I don't know, we'll see. But I am sure someone in the management thought about it at least for a while.
I mean the only way to make "the hobby" by synomous with "the game" is to supply everything you need at one place. and frankly if GW can do that more power to em
Cronch wrote: Let's hope so, even if I can't stand warhammertubers as a general, I'd hate for people to lose income because a corp decided to muscle in on their turf with "official" product.
Well, content is one thing but personnality and style of the people who make the videos also matters about whether or not you support them. Subscribers do so to support their favorite persons. If they keep releasing content they enjoy to watch, why would they stop their support ?
I'm mostly talking about patreons and other ways to give money directly to them, not youtube's way of "paying" with ads (Miniwargaming themselves said what they gained from it is negligible in comparison to their paying access on their site, and their youtube channel is only there as a way to reach for more subscribers).
What can happen is that people stop doing certain videos if Warhammer + give better access to the same content. I'm thinking about reviews of GW rulebooks here - I can totally see Warhammer + giving premium access to previews to their subscribers, something that no reviewer youtuber will be able to beat since they can only have the books GW give them at the time GW wants them to have.
I think it’s more going to make it more difficult for newcomers to the painting tutorial business.
The peeps I follow? I’ll still follow them, because I follow them for a reason. Certainly whenever I’m looking at doing a centrepiece, I’ll watch a handful to see if there are any schemes or techniques I want to use.
Warhammer+? Upside for me is it will of course be done using GW’s paints. Those I can get 5 days a week by just walking up town and grabbing whichever I might be missing. There’s nowt wrong with other paint lines, it’s just a matter of convenience for me.
They also seem to have their camera angles down. Being able to see how they hold and use the brush has genuinely improved my painting. Not all online painters have such clarity. Whilst not a “I’ll never watch another of your videos” type deal breaker, it’s still a reason for me to watch both offerings.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I think they said they’re still deciding, but have a top notch app developer (who they didn’t specifically name) working on it,
Having built more than one large VOD service and consulted on multiple international ones, if they are "still deciding" on anything to do with platforms they won't be there at launch in August.
TBH anyone can go to IBC in Amsterdam every year and go through the literal hall of developers for VOD services to hire a company who might be described as GW have done, but they are wildly variable in quality, and ultimately it is very dependent on the client giving clear instructions and being willing to pay development costs if you want to do certain things.
If they're looking for a multi-DRM solution then just the CDN integration to deliver 4K content is... extremely difficult, and it's not an off the shelf situation (despite what many of those services promise at the booth!).
All of these things are doable, but I would have a lot more confidence in it if it hadn't been for the disaster that is the 40k app, which showed GW have absolutely no idea what they're doing procurement wise in this area.
The Phazer wrote: All of these things are doable, but I would have a lot more confidence in it if it hadn't been for the disaster that is the 40k app, which showed GW have absolutely no idea what they're doing procurement wise in this area.
Argive wrote: The WD back catalogue is interesting. But if they going to add issues at they are released and g OOP whose going to bother buying the physical copies...
I wonder if this will mean the AOS app is now also going behind a pay wall
they say from 2020 back for the WD archive, so It looks like stff will be added after a 6 months (give or take), enough of an incentive for those that read WD to carry on
tl;dr it takes too long to build these things for GW to still be deciding what devices they're on at this point, so they were fibbing a bit. They know at least the maximum possible availability for launch today.
And that they're working with a third party provider doesn't mean much, because it's a big market and there are good and bad providers, and even if you get a good provider you've got to know what you're asking them to do.
Sarouan wrote: If you have a Rooster Teeth subscription, then you lost all credibility here as criticizer. Most of their videos are stupid gak you find for free on youtube, with a worse video player. And their good animations can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
And most of what GW is doing with W+ is available for free on YouTube... so... ?
Starfarer wrote: Except they are doing things that haven't been done before. They are producing animated shows well beyond the handful of fan productions that amount to about a movie trailer's length of content.
I'm not confident that a few short animations trickled out over Emperor-knows how long is enough to sustain the service. Disney+ got by for a year with almost nothing to show for it based on good will and the promise of lots to come. Warhammer+ ain't Disney+.
Their old printed material. That's good from an archival perspective at least, but being able to access old rule books (likely only through the D+ app) is hardly an incentive to pay per month.
Starfarer wrote: They are offering in depth lore videos direct from the creators.
Which will offer what, exactly? Are they going to add to, expand or change the lore? Unlikely, so again, other than perhaps higher production values and music that would get a regular YouTuber a copyright strike, what's on offer here?
Starfarer wrote: If the value isn't there for you, so be it. But to act like it's objectively poor value because you like fan versions of some content better isn't a great argument imo.
That's a misrepresentation. I'm not disliking it because I like fan versions more. I dislike it because it's GW (once again) attempting to be the hobby, rather than just being part of the hobby.
You're putting out a lot of hypotheticals that assume the worst possible response from GW, i.e. copyright strikes when there's no indication that will occur. Also just because you aren't yet aware of if the lore videos will be good doesn't mean they will be bad.
Anyway, we were talking about GW putting out content that hadn't been provided before, which they are. Again I said if the value isn't there for you so be it.
You go straight to FUD and move the goalposts of the discussion when I provide examples.
GW isn't trying to be the hobby. There no indication that they plan to take over all 40k related content online. There's no basis for that assumption other than FUD and grasping at straws to paint GW in a bad light because they are offering something new you don't want to pay for.
That said, I wasted enough time debating this when it's clear this is turning into yet another "bash GW for hypothetical wrongs" thread. I really don't care who likes the service or not. I frankly wouldn't buy it were it not for the Assassin model. That's enough to justify a year purchase and then I'll evaluate the first years content to see if I continue to subscribe going forward.
One thing that's kinda of hilarious to me, though, is there's likely going to be a lot of people paying $60+ for those exclusive models on ebay rather than just paying for the damn sub. Lot of subscribers are going to be able to fund their annual subscriptions just buy selling off the exclusive models they don't want, or just buy extras to sell for profit.
hobojebus wrote: Warhammer+ is exactly what I expected, a poorly planned cash grab.
fan boys will gush over it but I see nothing here worth the money.
Animations are the only thing of any interest and I won't be paying months just for those.
Well don't subscribe then. Problem sorted.
People keep saying this, as if people paying for this, and supporting GW in doing more of this won't impact the hobby as a whole in any way, for everyone+.
Bear with me, but it's completely possible that the actually effect of this will be somewhere in the middle and not the two extremes most people in this thread are chanting.
GW making it so Warhammer+ subscribers get early/exclusive access to their regular model relases? Or books. Or rules. Of course, coupled togather with them raising the price ever-so-often, because there hasn't been a single GW product, be it miniatures or codexes that hasn't gotten steadily more expensive overtime. Sometimes 4 times more expensive since it was introduced, in fact.
Commisar Marbh wrote: People complaining about the price spend probably more than that on soda, coffee or snacks a day, much less a month.
It's about the price of a tactical marine at current prices.
If it's not for you, cool. But some folks are interested.
Yeah, but like, if you cut out food and drink, you kinda die. And Soda is often cheaper than clean water. Snacks cheaper than better quality food. People are fat in america not because they are intemperate, but because the stuff that makes you fat is cheap and the stuff that doesn't is expensive.
Overread wrote: The real issue is with things like OCR if you want your scanned book to be more than just an image. OCR can get terribly messed up by anything that isn't very standard modern English.
At which point a lot rests on the shoulders of the person doing the scanning to ensure that its all copied over correctly.
My father has some reprinted books that are published from scans of old publications and they are full of mistakes on the latin names for things because the scanner doesn't have latin and can't auto correct it.
Warhammer would have the same issue as there's a lot of non-standard words and such. So scanning to make an image is easy, but an actual digital book with text you can highlight, search, and otherwise work with takes a bit more work to complete.
Look, man, pirates do this stuff for free with ease, including the ability to highlight.
Sometimes they get fancy and even add bookmarks.
GW has not a single excuse to not make digital versions on their rule books and do it well. Let's not play devil's advocate. People can and have been doing this for years now. The least GW can do is have the same quality as some dude in australia with a scanner and some free time.
Anyway, that's a lot of money for well-produced Battle Reports (already free on the Internet in many different places) and high-level painting videos (already free on the Internet in many different places).
Most well-produced batreps put lots of content behind paywalls. Strangely no one criticizes them for profiting off work that takes a serious amount of time, and in some cases is the primary job of the content creators.
Not much different for GW. They are paying people to produce content. You're welcome to not pay for it if you don't see value in it. But even your "free" content creators are actively seeking money for their work. Not sure why GW should be expected to provide that for free when others only have these for profit content channels based in work created by GW.
That said, I honestly had little interest in Warhammer+ prior to today. Ultimately the model(s) included after a 12 month sub and the digital archive content is more appealing to me than the shows or the app. I'm sure I'll still enjoy them but if that were the only offerings I'd likely pass. But for $60 for a year, and an amazing Vindicare model? Easy choice for me to pay for a year sub to try it out. I'd easily spend more going out with my wife to a craft brew pub for drinks and a meal on a weekend.
People poop on miniwargaming for their monetization model all the time.
But the reason people don't complain that much is..... most people don't pay for the content.
Starfarer wrote: Except they are doing things that haven't been done before. They are producing animated shows well beyond the handful of fan productions that amount to about a movie trailer's length of content.
I'm not confident that a few short animations trickled out over Emperor-knows how long is enough to sustain the service. Disney+ got by for a year with almost nothing to show for it based on good will and the promise of lots to come. Warhammer+ ain't Disney+.
Their old printed material. That's good from an archival perspective at least, but being able to access old rule books (likely only through the D+ app) is hardly an incentive to pay per month.
Starfarer wrote: They are offering in depth lore videos direct from the creators.
Which will offer what, exactly? Are they going to add to, expand or change the lore? Unlikely, so again, other than perhaps higher production values and music that would get a regular YouTuber a copyright strike, what's on offer here?
Starfarer wrote: If the value isn't there for you, so be it. But to act like it's objectively poor value because you like fan versions of some content better isn't a great argument imo.
That's a misrepresentation. I'm not disliking it because I like fan versions more. I dislike it because it's GW (once again) attempting to be the hobby, rather than just being part of the hobby.
Starfarer wrote: Funny you mention Rooster Teeth. They ran a Kickstarter and took in over $2M from fans to produce a movie, turned around and sold the company to Fullscreen Media before making the movie, and only then ramped up content in a paid monthly service after they sold the company to said digital media company. Then the company was sold again to an AT&T subsidiary a few years later. They also fired most of the staff that was there in the early days aside from the in screen talent and executive level staff. I know because I worked for a RT partner company for years during that time.
Ok then. I didn't actually know about the Kickstarter, TBH. I tend not to interface with the Rooster Teeth fandom (or even the AH fandom) as I find it cloying and incapable of seeing flaws in anything RT/AH does.
RT's a shambling corpse waiting to be wrapped up by it's parent company, having had its staff increasingly hollowed out.
Argive wrote: I wonder if this will mean the AOS app is now also going behind a pay wall
The AoS app is already paid. It's $2 a month.
My bad thought it was free.
It gives you every unit Warscroll in the game for free. It charges you $1 a month for the list builder. You can buy digital rulebooks thru the app at heavy discounts. You need to have purchased a digital book thru the app to be able to read the rules for stuff like faction bonuses and battalions in the list builder.
It sounds like this app will be going away though and they’re replacing it with a new one, which will be a monumental shame as it’s quite better than the 40k app, which STILL has mistakes in list building and missing rules sections from codexes.
If they let you buy books straight through the app, I might even pay for it, instead of this nonsense "Buy the hard copy and scan a code in. It's eeeeeasy" bs they are doing now.
Daedalus81 wrote: I know people like to thinkGW is an evil mega-corp, but it won't happen.
Nintendo DMCAs things at random on YT still, big companies can act completely irrationally.
Japan's more a corporate dystopia than America is (yet), so under japanese law Nintendo can get away with things like silencing reviews because japan lacks fair use rules.
Albeit they'd have a heck of a time pushing that in an american court, but youtube is hard slanted in favor of claiments over creators, so it never has to actually go to court.
This thread is a wonderful example of people hating just to hate.
Somehow, GW went from "this is (nominally) better than I thought it would be", minus a few hard corps detractors that are going to gak on GW regardless of what they do, to "GW will copyright strike the universe and the mere EXISTENCE of W+ is going to destroy the hobby based on...ya know...feels and stuff".
And, here is the kicker, maybe it does. maybe in the future, GW does copyright strike every battle report creator and painting channel under the sun, and then start offering entire armies that would only be available to W+ subscribers. Maybe they do, maybe someday thats what it comes down to.
But that isn't what's happening today. Today, we have their service announced in more detail with a framework behind what is going to be available with the service. I get it, hell, everyone here gets it, you all want them to die, you want GW drug into the street and shot, whole on execution style for the slights they have placed upon you and the damage that has been done to your life by the evil bastards at GW.
I get it, I'm sure most do.
And there are lots of things to rip on GW for, as this quagmire of a forum is well known to discuss, ad nauseum, but you don't *ACTUALLY* have to make gak up to do it.
Many in this thread have gone so far beyond discussing this service that the blatant fear-mongering, hysteria, and just outright odious nature of the conversation is groxic.
yup, groxic. the perfect mix between grift and toxic.
Seabass wrote: This thread is a wonderful example of people hating just to hate.
Somehow, GW went from "this is (nominally) better than I thought it would be", minus a few hard corps detractors that are going to gak on GW regardless of what they do, to "GW will copyright strike the universe and the mere EXISTENCE of W+ is going to destroy the hobby based on...ya know...feels and stuff".
And, here is the kicker, maybe it does. maybe in the future, GW does copyright strike every battle report creator and painting channel under the sun, and then start offering entire armies that would only be available to W+ subscribers. Maybe they do, maybe someday thats what it comes down to.
But that isn't what's happening today. Today, we have their service announced in more detail with a framework behind what is going to be available with the service. I get it, hell, everyone here gets it, you all want them to die, you want GW drug into the street and shot, whole on execution style for the slights they have placed upon you and the damage that has been done to your life by the evil bastards at GW.
I get it, I'm sure most do.
And there are lots of things to rip on GW for, as this quagmire of a forum is well known to discuss, ad nauseum, but you don't *ACTUALLY* have to make gak up to do it.
Many in this thread have gone so far beyond discussing this service that the blatant fear-mongering, hysteria, and just outright odious nature of the conversation is groxic.
yup, groxic. the perfect mix between grift and toxic.
drink some concrete and harden up kiddos.
Perhaps if GW didn't dump a raging trashfire in their last digital subscription offering, people would be more into this one. But they made getting into the hobby harder and more expensive to boost a flaming mess of an app that is still a mess. And looking like they will be setting the AoS app on fire too. All to force people to buy hard copies AND sub to get their rules digitally, which is the most feth stupid thing they could do about this.
£5 seems like an introductionary/loss leader that will eventually get cranked much higher. Obviously they're not alone in this, most streaming services do it, but I'd be surprised if we end up being six months before they talk about raising it to £8, if not higher. £10 im 2022 wouldn't surprise me. By that point people are already used to it, half way into their 'free' model progress, using it as a dedicated army builder, etc.
The whole "but that's as much as you'd spend on X!" argument works in a vacuum, but this isn't the days of Netflix and maybe Warcraft being most people's only real subscription. Just about anybody and everybody has some sort of subscription service and most people are using more than one. A few of my more fanboyish Warhammer friends have already said it's yet another service they'd be paying for on top of all the others and that makes them hesitant. Granted, I'm sure most people would cut something like Hulu or HBO if it meant the Official Games Workshop(tm) Warhammer Plus+(tm) app, but it's still not "just £5" to most people.
I think most battle report channels will be fine as they're ultimately free for one and those with Patreons/MWG's Vault subscriptions are probably people who're quite happy to spread their money around a bit. People who'd pay to watch GW staffers do paint jobs using only Citadel paints and brushes probably weren't followinh Youtube painters in the first place. I imagine Lore Youtubers will be hit quite a bit, but again, their videos are still free and a lot of people who are into 'the lore' side don't even play the game.
I don't know - as someone who thinks the animations are ok but not wild about and paid subs for streaming.. I was actually really pleasantly surprised by this. The models as part of the subs look excellent [neither are my faction but they look great]. The lore from older books seems like a great deal alongside the WD archive. I haven't bought WD for years and got rid of my physical archive years ago but I bought the latest one purely for a short story - which was excellent in itself. The price really really looks decent, they will probably add content as they go, the addition of the apps, the hobby shows -I think its a good package overall. I get it if you're looking at it purely for the animations it would look iffy but as a whole there looks to be a lot on offer. Still a few months to see how it shapes up and decide on it but I'm seriously considering it.
Arbitrator wrote: £5 seems like an introductionary/loss leader that will eventually get cranked much higher. Obviously they're not alone in this, most streaming services do it, but I'd be surprised if we end up being six months before they talk about raising it to £8, if not higher. £10 im 2022 wouldn't surprise me. By that point people are already used to it, half way into their 'free' model progress, using it as a dedicated army builder, etc.
The whole "but that's as much as you'd spend on X!" argument works in a vacuum, but this isn't the days of Netflix and maybe Warcraft being most people's only real subscription. Just about anybody and everybody has some sort of subscription service and most people are using more than one. A few of my more fanboyish Warhammer friends have already said it's yet another service they'd be paying for on top of all the others and that makes them hesitant. Granted, I'm sure most people would cut something like Hulu or HBO if it meant the Official Games Workshop(tm) Warhammer Plus+(tm) app, but it's still not "just £5" to most people.
You don't have to have Prime, Hulu, Netflix, HBO, YT Premium, Disney, Sky and other voluntarily spending. It is just £5.
If your hobby budget doesn't allow it, set priorities. Arguing that it is more than £5 because you spend your money already on all these other spare time entertainment stuff is... weird.
Seabass wrote: This thread is a wonderful example of people hating just to hate.
Somehow, GW went from "this is (nominally) better than I thought it would be", minus a few hard corps detractors that are going to gak on GW regardless of what they do, to "GW will copyright strike the universe and the mere EXISTENCE of W+ is going to destroy the hobby based on...ya know...feels and stuff".
And, here is the kicker, maybe it does. maybe in the future, GW does copyright strike every battle report creator and painting channel under the sun, and then start offering entire armies that would only be available to W+ subscribers. Maybe they do, maybe someday thats what it comes down to.
But that isn't what's happening today. Today, we have their service announced in more detail with a framework behind what is going to be available with the service. I get it, hell, everyone here gets it, you all want them to die, you want GW drug into the street and shot, whole on execution style for the slights they have placed upon you and the damage that has been done to your life by the evil bastards at GW.
I get it, I'm sure most do.
And there are lots of things to rip on GW for, as this quagmire of a forum is well known to discuss, ad nauseum, but you don't *ACTUALLY* have to make gak up to do it.
Many in this thread have gone so far beyond discussing this service that the blatant fear-mongering, hysteria, and just outright odious nature of the conversation is groxic.
yup, groxic. the perfect mix between grift and toxic.
drink some concrete and harden up kiddos.
Perhaps if GW didn't dump a raging trashfire in their last digital subscription offering, people would be more into this one. But they made getting into the hobby harder and more expensive to boost a flaming mess of an app that is still a mess. And looking like they will be setting the AoS app on fire too. All to force people to buy hard copies AND sub to get their rules digitally, which is the most feth stupid thing they could do about this.
and what does this have to do with the W+ sub/app? sure, you don't like the change they made because of the cost/availability of rules. that's fine, that's a fair criticism. Hell, I dare say you even HAVE A POINT, but not sure what this has to do with the sub service, other than "its from GW, so therefore, it should die the most horrible and excruciating death possible". Its obvious the streaming service and the WH40k app arent goint to be the same thing. Again, if there is anywhere on the internet where gaking on GW is in vogue, its here, and you dont have to make stuff up to do so (you as in the generic euphamistic you, not you specifically).
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Arbitrator wrote: £5 seems like an introductionary/loss leader that will eventually get cranked much higher. Obviously they're not alone in this, most streaming services do it, but I'd be surprised if we end up being six months before they talk about raising it to £8, if not higher. £10 im 2022 wouldn't surprise me. By that point people are already used to it, half way into their 'free' model progress, using it as a dedicated army builder, etc.
The whole "but that's as much as you'd spend on X!" argument works in a vacuum, but this isn't the days of Netflix and maybe Warcraft being most people's only real subscription. Just about anybody and everybody has some sort of subscription service and most people are using more than one. A few of my more fanboyish Warhammer friends have already said it's yet another service they'd be paying for on top of all the others and that makes them hesitant. Granted, I'm sure most people would cut something like Hulu or HBO if it meant the Official Games Workshop(tm) Warhammer Plus+(tm) app, but it's still not "just £5" to most people.
I think most battle report channels will be fine as they're ultimately free for one and those with Patreons/MWG's Vault subscriptions are probably people who're quite happy to spread their money around a bit. People who'd pay to watch GW staffers do paint jobs using only Citadel paints and brushes probably weren't followinh Youtube painters in the first place. I imagine Lore Youtubers will be hit quite a bit, but again, their videos are still free and a lot of people who are into 'the lore' side don't even play the game.
yup, groxic. the perfect mix between grift and toxic.
drink some concrete and harden up kiddos.
You need to lookup the definition of grift, booklicker. Grifters are the ones calling literally everything about GW GGLOORRIIOOUUSS because they might get some freebies.
I mean, if we want to go the Merriam-webster route, neither of us are using the term in its strictest sense, as neither of us is jockeying or making illicit attempts to gather resources. However, I think grift, in the common parlance of simply complaining about something for the sake of complaining about that something because it's in vogue to complain about that something, would be relatively accurate here. That said, you do have a point, and allow me to redact and change my previous statement.
yup, Gritch. The perfect mix between a gripe and a bitch.
Better now?
Additionally, I would add that it is hard to be a bootlicker to a company that literally has 0 authority.
none.
GW has no authority over my life. and here is the scary part. they don't have any on yours either. Your "rebel against the evil empire attitude" that seems to be on full display here (again, parsed from the specific use and direction to the term "bootlicker" is rebelling against a toy manufacturer who literally has 0 authority.
You really cant bootlick to someone or something who has no influence on your life in any meaningful way. White Knight, agree, appreciate, zealously defend, ridiculous, blind, willfully ignorant, these are or may even be far more adequate descriptors, but bootlick, quite frankly, there is no one i would even know whos boot to lick.
If GW plans to launch this by end of August, they should have all the technical details worked out already and months of content produced in advance. I am not getting the feeling that they have either.
I want GW to succeed with Warhammer+ but I am not very convinced yet. They are guaranteed to sell a ton of subscriptions based on what we have been promised already but I hope that they can actually provide it. It has not always been the case.
Perhaps if GW didn't dump a raging trashfire in their last digital subscription offering, people would be more into this one. But they made getting into the hobby harder and more expensive to boost a flaming mess of an app that is still a mess. And looking like they will be setting the AoS app on fire too. All to force people to buy hard copies AND sub to get their rules digitally, which is the most feth stupid thing they could do about this.
I didn't realize that it was so incredibly difficult to jump into this hobby. I can head to my local game store right now and pick up a battletome and a rulebook..... and I'm playing the game. GW isn't forcing me to do anything, much less subscribe to anything for digital rules when I already have a hard copy.
Mr. Grey wrote: I can head to my local game store right now and pick up a battletome and a rulebook
you know in some part of the world this is still not possible and shipping takes time
hence why it is very difficult to understand why GW removes the possibillity to buy digitial content now
Americans and Brits tend to think everyone lives in a city and have easy access to things like hobby groups and specialist shops or overnight shipping and cheap public transport. Thats why you see so many of them suggesting "just find another group/game bro" as a solution to gripes with GW or its playerbase.
People keep saying this, as if people paying for this, and supporting GW in doing more of this won't impact the hobby as a whole in any way, for everyone+.
Then play something else. There are hundreds of alternatives out there.
Or keep on getting screwed whilst moaning about it. It's your choice.
People keep saying this, as if people paying for this, and supporting GW in doing more of this won't impact the hobby as a whole in any way, for everyone+.
Then play something else. There are hundreds of alternatives out there.
Or keep on getting screwed whilst moaning about it. It's your choice.
And what if they're all full of mindless consoomers? And besides, all of them togather aren't a fraction of Warhammer's popularity.
"And what if they're all full of mindless consoomers? And besides, all of them togather aren't a fraction of Warhammer's popularity."
So, your problem is with the community or the people who comprise the collective "community" and not the game? I mean, you are asking what if all of the other games have people who are similar to those in the GW community? Well, so what the feth is it? Are you upset at GW for (insert reason here) or are you upset at gamers as a whole?
If you are worried about all games being filled with "mindless consoomers" then you should probably just not play tabletop games as a whole, because it seems like the game isn't your problem.
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Wha-Mu-077 wrote: You will all see when GW locks all new relases behind their 30 USD/month Warhammer+++ Premium subscription.
I don't know you, but I'm going to say this because it probably should be said. Your mania on this is bordering on maladaptive.
Starfarer wrote: You're putting out a lot of hypotheticals that assume the worst possible response from GW, i.e. copyright strikes when there's no indication that will occur. Also just because you aren't yet aware of if the lore videos will be good doesn't mean they will be bad.
I don't expect GW to do the copyright strike thing. In fact, looking over everything I've said in the thread, I've never even brought up the idea of GW launching copyright strikes*. Other people put forward that idea. If I've missed where I said otherwise, I apologise.
And the lore videos could be very good, but again, this isn't something that's unique to them. It's not something that only they can do, as lots of other groups do that. Why would I pay for this?
*I did mention copyright strikes in the context of copywritten music, nothing else.
Starfarer wrote: Anyway, we were talking about GW putting out content that hadn't been provided before, which they are. Again I said if the value isn't there for you so be it.
Which, as far as I can tell, is pretty much just the animations. And the minis I guess, but that's not so much Warhammer+ content as it is "stay for a year and we'll give you this unreleased sculpt we had laying about".
That's funny. GW have been trying to pretend to be the HHHobby for as long as I can remember.
Starfarer wrote: There no indication that they plan to take over all 40k related content online.
They did poach hire a whole bunch of animators and suddenly all those animators had their (free) stuff vanish off YouTube.
Starfarer wrote: There's no basis for that assumption other than FUD and grasping at straws to paint GW in a bad light because they are offering something new you don't want to pay for.
GW doesn't have to have something I don't want to pay for to end up in a bad light. They are perfectly capable of doing that independent of lil' ol' me.
Starfarer wrote: That said, I wasted enough time debating this when it's clear this is turning into yet another "bash GW for hypothetical wrongs" thread. I really don't care who likes the service or not. I frankly wouldn't buy it were it not for the Assassin model. That's enough to justify a year purchase and then I'll evaluate the first years content to see if I continue to subscribe going forward.
You call it hypothetical. I call it pattern recognition.
I mean, remember when GW put out a 40K army list program and it was terrible?
That's actually a trick question by the way, because it's happened more than once. When they put out their latest one a few of us laughed and saw what was coming. And what came? A terrible army list program that everyone gak on right from beginning.
I can't imagine that you haven't been around long enough to notice that GW does this all the time. They may be the biggest game in town, but they like to pretend that they're the only game in town.
Starfarer wrote: One thing that's kinda of hilarious to me, though, is there's likely going to be a lot of people paying $60+ for those exclusive models on ebay rather than just paying for the damn sub. Lot of subscribers are going to be able to fund their annual subscriptions just buy selling off the exclusive models they don't want, or just buy extras to sell for profit.
Well, as the saying starts: A fool and his money...
Apopos: Warhammer+.
P.S. I had to look up what 'FUD' meant. I've learnt something today. Thanks.
Your statement wasn't about the game. it was about the people that play them. If the social aspect is something you dislike in a game based around social interaction between players, then it's probably not the game that is the problem.
Your statement wasn't about the game. it was about the people that play them. If the social aspect is something you dislike in a game based around social interaction between players, then it's probably not the game that is the problem.
And the people support GW's bad practices and in turn, cause the game to become noticeably worse?
Your statement wasn't about the game. it was about the people that play them. If the social aspect is something you dislike in a game based around social interaction between players, then it's probably not the game that is the problem.
And the people support GW's bad practices and in turn, cause the game to become noticeably worse?
Or you are just assuming that your value structure clearly applies to everyone else and that no one else could have an equally valid viewpoint or want the new products. That's not a problem with the game, company, or community. It's a problem with the specific user (in this case, you).
Sarouan wrote: If you have a Rooster Teeth subscription, then you lost all credibility here as criticizer. Most of their videos are stupid gak you find for free on youtube, with a worse video player. And their good animations can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
And most of what GW is doing with W+ is available for free on YouTube... so... ?
So if you live with Rooster subscription while knowing that, then I don't see why you keep wondering about how it can't work with Warhammer + because "there are things that can be found for free".
Well, I mean, I know why, it's because you're a GW hater and not a Rooster Teeth hater (even if Rooster Teeth did really bad things to their employees in the past).
So that's why you lost your credibility as criticizer here. You clearly have two different standards just because of the brand.
Japan's more a corporate dystopia than America is (yet), so under japanese law Nintendo can get away with things like silencing reviews because japan lacks fair use rules.
Except they're doing it on american Youtube, thanks to american law. There is no corporate dystopia that can rival Amazonland.
Seabass wrote: This thread is a wonderful example of people hating just to hate.
Somehow, GW went from "this is (nominally) better than I thought it would be", minus a few hard corps detractors that are going to gak on GW regardless of what they do, to "GW will copyright strike the universe and the mere EXISTENCE of W+ is going to destroy the hobby based on...ya know...feels and stuff".
And, here is the kicker, maybe it does. maybe in the future, GW does copyright strike every battle report creator and painting channel under the sun, and then start offering entire armies that would only be available to W+ subscribers. Maybe they do, maybe someday thats what it comes down to.
But that isn't what's happening today. Today, we have their service announced in more detail with a framework behind what is going to be available with the service. I get it, hell, everyone here gets it, you all want them to die, you want GW drug into the street and shot, whole on execution style for the slights they have placed upon you and the damage that has been done to your life by the evil bastards at GW.
I get it, I'm sure most do.
And there are lots of things to rip on GW for, as this quagmire of a forum is well known to discuss, ad nauseum, but you don't *ACTUALLY* have to make gak up to do it.
Many in this thread have gone so far beyond discussing this service that the blatant fear-mongering, hysteria, and just outright odious nature of the conversation is groxic.
yup, groxic. the perfect mix between grift and toxic.
drink some concrete and harden up kiddos.
Perhaps if GW didn't dump a raging trashfire in their last digital subscription offering, people would be more into this one. But they made getting into the hobby harder and more expensive to boost a flaming mess of an app that is still a mess. And looking like they will be setting the AoS app on fire too. All to force people to buy hard copies AND sub to get their rules digitally, which is the most feth stupid thing they could do about this.
and what does this have to do with the W+ sub/app? sure, you don't like the change they made because of the cost/availability of rules. that's fine, that's a fair criticism. Hell, I dare say you even HAVE A POINT, but not sure what this has to do with the sub service, other than "its from GW, so therefore, it should die the most horrible and excruciating death possible". Its obvious the streaming service and the WH40k app arent goint to be the same thing. Again, if there is anywhere on the internet where gaking on GW is in vogue, its here, and you dont have to make stuff up to do so (you as in the generic euphamistic you, not you specifically).
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Arbitrator wrote: £5 seems like an introductionary/loss leader that will eventually get cranked much higher. Obviously they're not alone in this, most streaming services do it, but I'd be surprised if we end up being six months before they talk about raising it to £8, if not higher. £10 im 2022 wouldn't surprise me. By that point people are already used to it, half way into their 'free' model progress, using it as a dedicated army builder, etc.
The whole "but that's as much as you'd spend on X!" argument works in a vacuum, but this isn't the days of Netflix and maybe Warcraft being most people's only real subscription. Just about anybody and everybody has some sort of subscription service and most people are using more than one. A few of my more fanboyish Warhammer friends have already said it's yet another service they'd be paying for on top of all the others and that makes them hesitant. Granted, I'm sure most people would cut something like Hulu or HBO if it meant the Official Games Workshop(tm) Warhammer Plus+(tm) app, but it's still not "just £5" to most people.
I think most battle report channels will be fine as they're ultimately free for one and those with Patreons/MWG's Vault subscriptions are probably people who're quite happy to spread their money around a bit. People who'd pay to watch GW staffers do paint jobs using only Citadel paints and brushes probably weren't followinh Youtube painters in the first place. I imagine Lore Youtubers will be hit quite a bit, but again, their videos are still free and a lot of people who are into 'the lore' side don't even play the game.
yup, groxic. the perfect mix between grift and toxic.
drink some concrete and harden up kiddos.
You need to lookup the definition of grift, booklicker. Grifters are the ones calling literally everything about GW GGLOORRIIOOUUSS because they might get some freebies.
I mean, if we want to go the Merriam-webster route, neither of us are using the term in its strictest sense, as neither of us is jockeying or making illicit attempts to gather resources. However, I think grift, in the common parlance of simply complaining about something for the sake of complaining about that something because it's in vogue to complain about that something, would be relatively accurate here. That said, you do have a point, and allow me to redact and change my previous statement.
yup, Gritch. The perfect mix between a gripe and a bitch.
Better now?
Additionally, I would add that it is hard to be a bootlicker to a company that literally has 0 authority.
none.
GW has no authority over my life. and here is the scary part. they don't have any on yours either. Your "rebel against the evil empire attitude" that seems to be on full display here (again, parsed from the specific use and direction to the term "bootlicker" is rebelling against a toy manufacturer who literally has 0 authority.
You really cant bootlick to someone or something who has no influence on your life in any meaningful way. White Knight, agree, appreciate, zealously defend, ridiculous, blind, willfully ignorant, these are or may even be far more adequate descriptors, but bootlick, quite frankly, there is no one i would even know whos boot to lick.
They are making it harder and more expansive to access their rules BECAUSE of this app. That's the problem with the app. They deliberately make things worse to try and get you to pay in plus pay more for the rules. They are degrading their services to try and get you to pay monthly on top of paying too much for the rules in the first place.
Japan's more a corporate dystopia than America is (yet), so under japanese law Nintendo can get away with things like silencing reviews because japan lacks fair use rules.
Except they're doing it on american Youtube, thanks to american law. There is no corporate dystopia that can rival Amazonland.
They're so aggressive about it because of Japanese laws and business culture.
They get away with it because no youtuber can afford to sue a multi billion dollar company for falsely issuing Cease and Desists.
Also, with the current make up of SCOTUS, it's possible they decide to legislate away fair use from the bench if it ever does go that far.
Japan's more a corporate dystopia than America is (yet), so under japanese law Nintendo can get away with things like silencing reviews because japan lacks fair use rules.
Except they're doing it on american Youtube, thanks to american law. There is no corporate dystopia that can rival Amazonland.
I might be missing something here, but why are you dragging Amazon into a discussion of YouTube?
stratigo wrote: They are making it harder and more expansive to access their rules BECAUSE of this app. That's the problem with the app. They deliberately make things worse to try and get you to pay in plus pay more for the rules. They are degrading their services to try and get you to pay monthly on top of paying too much for the rules in the first place.
Again, what does this have to do with the W+ service?
I understand what you're saying, but that doesn't have anything to do with this streaming service. The things you are talking about were going to happen regardless of whether the W+ app and service rolled out.
I mean, it does, doesn't it? Because it's not just a streaming service. They're discontinuing the old, functional AOS app that costs only a buck and replacing it with something they're going to roll into W+ to try to get uptake at 6x the price.
I can't imagine that you haven't been around long enough to notice that GW does this all the time. They may be the biggest game in town, but they like to pretend that they're the only game in town.
If you don't like then play other games.
It's worked for me for years, but I do play Warcry and sometimes I buy their toys for use in other games.
Japan's more a corporate dystopia than America is (yet), so under japanese law Nintendo can get away with things like silencing reviews because japan lacks fair use rules.
Except they're doing it on american Youtube, thanks to american law. There is no corporate dystopia that can rival Amazonland.
I might be missing something here, but why are you dragging Amazon into a discussion of YouTube?
I can't imagine that you haven't been around long enough to notice that GW does this all the time. They may be the biggest game in town, but they like to pretend that they're the only game in town.
If you don't like then play other games.
"If you don't love everything GW does, you have no right to play Warhammer or even interact with people who play Warhammer, or state your opinion on Warhammer."
Still don't like it, not getting it, paying these greedy buggers even more for stuff I have lived just fine without is not on my agenda.
As for the " Love it or leave it " seemingly straight out of the past mindset regarding GW, yeah the fanboys gonna fanboy. That mentality wasn't right in the past, still not right today and anyone who says love it or leave it should do us all a favor and leave themselves. Blind fanaticism for a product doesn't do it any favors and in fact is something that drags it down making a company blind to its failings over time till it all breaks apart.
Japan's more a corporate dystopia than America is (yet), so under japanese law Nintendo can get away with things like silencing reviews because japan lacks fair use rules.
Except they're doing it on american Youtube, thanks to american law. There is no corporate dystopia that can rival Amazonland.
I might be missing something here, but why are you dragging Amazon into a discussion of YouTube?
I don't know about all the stuff saying that it'll destroy the hobby or anything, but unless they bring on people who I can trust for battle reports, the only thing I'd be using the thing for is the animations. I hope Astartes guy joined of his own volition, however.
AngryAngel80 wrote: Still don't like it, not getting it, paying these greedy buggers even more for stuff I have lived just fine without is not on my agenda.
As for the " Love it or leave it " seemingly straight out of the past mindset regarding GW, yeah the fanboys gonna fanboy. That mentality wasn't right in the past, still not right today and anyone who says love it or leave it should do us all a favor and leave themselves. Blind fanaticism for a product doesn't do it any favors and in fact is something that drags it down making a company blind to its failings over time till it all breaks apart.
That's a nice straw man you've got there.
GW have been behaving like the multinational public company they are for decades. To expect them to behave any differently because of what you say on the Internet is just stupid. Their sales, profit margin on sales and share price are all higher than they've ever been. They're doing something right. And it doesn't involve listening to you.
Moaning about what you see as their failings isn't going to make a blind bit of difference. They know people like you don't like them as a company, they know you don't like the way they operate and they also know it's highly likely you were never going to buy the product you're moaning about, as you admit, or that you will buy it anyway.
I'm certainly not saying "Love it or Leave it", I'm saying that when people hate it all so much and the way GW behaves causes them so much anguish then perhaps they should consider playing a different game.
It would be good for their mental health and they could save yourself a lot of money. Why stay involved with a part of the miniature wargaming hobby you hate so much?
I can't imagine that you haven't been around long enough to notice that GW does this all the time. They may be the biggest game in town, but they like to pretend that they're the only game in town.
If you don't like then play other games.
"If you don't love everything GW does, you have no right to play Warhammer or even interact with people who play Warhammer, or state your opinion on Warhammer."
Pretty pathetic, if you ask me.
I didn't say that. I don't love everything GW does and I don't play Warhammer, though I certainly have the right to do so should I wish. I do play Warcry occasionally and I sometimes state my opinion on Warhammer.
I mostly play non-GW games and I sometimes by GW models and play them in different games. What is your point here?
stratigo wrote: They are making it harder and more expansive to access their rules BECAUSE of this app. That's the problem with the app. They deliberately make things worse to try and get you to pay in plus pay more for the rules. They are degrading their services to try and get you to pay monthly on top of paying too much for the rules in the first place.
Again, what does this have to do with the W+ service?
I understand what you're saying, but that doesn't have anything to do with this streaming service. The things you are talking about were going to happen regardless of whether the W+ app and service rolled out.
I'm confused, have you not watched or read the preview? Or like most of the discussion here? This isn't just a streaming service. They're bundling their rules apps into it.
Have GW's battle reports ever been about showing a balanced game?
I mean, I haven't been paying much attention to them in recent years, so honest question there. The GW batreps I'm familiar with from back in the day were largely just whatever models happened to be on hand, or scenario-driven things, and nobody ever saw them as a vehicle for conveying worthwhile strategic information on the game or in any way indicative of game balance.
insaniak wrote: Have GW's battle reports ever been about showing a balanced game?
I mean, I haven't been paying much attention to them in recent years, so honest question there. The GW batreps I'm familiar with from back in the day were largely just whatever models happened to be on hand, or scenario-driven things, and nobody ever saw them as a vehicle for conveying worthwhile strategic information on the game or in any way indicative of game balance.
From what I understand they used to play through the White Dwarf featured battle reports multiple times and then feature the one that maybe told the best narrative story or had some of the best in-game moments. Pretty sure they were never intended to showcase any sort of balance in the game.
Mr. Grey wrote: From what I understand they used to play through the White Dwarf featured battle reports multiple times and then feature the one that maybe told the best narrative story or had some of the best in-game moments. Pretty sure they were never intended to showcase any sort of balance in the game.
I remember the time were such things were written down in the comments of the WD report:
"we choose this battle from the playtests because we thought it will introduce the new faction the best way, you will recognise that model yx has a different special rule, after playtesting we concluded this was too strong so it was removed in the final version"
My main problem with GW battle-report videos nowadays is that I don't trust them to get the rules right and/or don't use house rules without telling the people in advance
leading to problems because "they should know how to play"
NinthMusketeer wrote: Popped in to see what this thread had devolved into, not disappointed.
Been a while since I posted in this forum.. months if not years....
But, unless I missed the sarcasm, glad I'm not the only one that uses this place to check what the bottom half of the hobby is up to
it amuses me how night and day this place is compared to say.. every community discord I've been in.
there you see stuff like "hmm not sure I'm intreasted personally but an intreasting idea" here it's like "GW IS DOING SOMETHING! THE TIME OF THE APOCLYPSE IS UPON US!"
NinthMusketeer wrote: Popped in to see what this thread had devolved into, not disappointed.
Been a while since I posted in this forum.. months if not years....
But, unless I missed the sarcasm, glad I'm not the only one that uses this place to check what the bottom half of the hobby is up to
it amuses me how night and day this place is compared to say.. every community discord I've been in.
there you see stuff like "hmm not sure I'm intreasted personally but an intreasting idea" here it's like "GW IS DOING SOMETHING! THE TIME OF THE APOCLYPSE IS UPON US!"
Yeah
To try and keep somewhat on the topic of the thread at hand....
I was thinking of cancelling my 40k app, purely because 2 of the units I regularly use in the list builder haven't had their incorrect rules/points updated for a good while...
But then I spotted the community article about warhammer+ and thought it looks pretty solid value for all the backlog stuff alone.... for a couple of quid more than I already paid the 40k app....
So, I'm going to give it a shot. If it disappoints, I'll cancel it. Job done. But its looking like great value for what's being offered, let's wait and see
.....but I'll keep an eye in dakka's forums to see how big the tyre fire gets on the subject
).
