endlesswaltz123 wrote: Just had an idea of some easy win content for Warhammer+ for GW. Have all the model kit instructions in PDF, being able to look at some model kit instructions would make conversions easier, as well as obviously lost instructions and also stop the hassle of trawling the internet for them. It would also allow GW to make some money from the 2nd hand market.
It won't be mega popular, but it adds value, which is where they will struggle to justify for a while if their content is slow to build up.
Why not take the instructions out of the boxes completely and just let you download the pdfs from WHPlus?
Holy hell, nothing like taking what should've been free to begin with and asking the company to hide it behind a paywall.
Why not take something somebody said, pretend they said something totally different and then whine about the thing they didn’t actually say?
They said they want GW to put pdf manuals behind a paywall. Unsurprisingly, I think a) gw not providing instructions in pdf on their product pages is already a trash move, b) putting anything behind a paywall is a trash move, but putting something like instructions behind a paywall is scummy. It adds zero new value.
I cannot for the life of me understand how people, on their own, willingly, come up with such anti-consumer ideas to "propose" to GW.
They said they wanted pdf manuals on Warhammer+. They didn’t not say they should only be on Warhammer+. You invented that part and pretended that’s what they meant.
If you have one of their products, it would be pretty crap of GW to not allow you a set of the instructions. So no, I'm not suggesting they stop doing that.
However as an added benefit to subscribers, they could just jump on and get hold of the instructions they want, or allow them to have a look at a kit they potentially may want to buy.
If it was put directly on the GW website where the kit is, perfect, I'd take that as well. I just want easy access to the instructions as you get a better idea for how certain bits work or are shaped than just looking at a sprue.
It costs them nothing to put up PDF instructions on the website, there's other gaming companies which have no issue with that, I see no reason why that should be paywalled as a premium service. And yes, if they put it on WH+ they sure as hell won't put it up on the main site cause...why would they, when you just proven you'd pay money for that?
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Just had an idea of some easy win content for Warhammer+ for GW. Have all the model kit instructions in PDF, being able to look at some model kit instructions would make conversions easier, as well as obviously lost instructions and also stop the hassle of trawling the internet for them. It would also allow GW to make some money from the 2nd hand market.
It won't be mega popular, but it adds value, which is where they will struggle to justify for a while if their content is slow to build up.
Why not take the instructions out of the boxes completely and just let you download the pdfs from WHPlus?
Holy hell, nothing like taking what should've been free to begin with and asking the company to hide it behind a paywall.
Why not take something somebody said, pretend they said something totally different and then whine about the thing they didn’t actually say?
They said they want GW to put pdf manuals behind a paywall. Unsurprisingly, I think a) gw not providing instructions in pdf on their product pages is already a trash move, b) putting anything behind a paywall is a trash move, but putting something like instructions behind a paywall is scummy. It adds zero new value.
I cannot for the life of me understand how people, on their own, willingly, come up with such anti-consumer ideas to "propose" to GW.
Nobody said however they would be only behind paywall.
It would be just like now except subscribers get additional tiny perk. Yes on product page would be better but non-subscribers wouldn't be worse than now. They want instructions, they would still get it. For free.
If you feel that the content currently provided is bang enough for your buck then go right ahead and sign up, if you haven't already.
5 quid for what’s on offer in week 1, I’d agree with you. Effectively £15 for an entire year of content, I’m willing to give it a go.
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redux wrote: The "free" episode of Hammer and Bolter was not very good. Episodes 1 and 2, however; are really good. I assume they used the Ork episode as the free-view because of all the new Ork stuff we are seeing.
I have fairly high hopes for WH+ and am not bummed that I am subscribed for the year...yet.
I agree with your assessment, although I enjoyed old bale eye it was the weakest of the 3. Episode 1 was excellent.
Nobody said however they would be only behind paywall.
It would be just like now except subscribers get additional tiny perk. Yes on product page would be better but non-subscribers wouldn't be worse than now. They want instructions, they would still get it. For free.
Reading comprehension
If you put something on WHPlus, it's behind a paywall. As it's not currently on the website, it would become a paywalled feature, just like the animations. Normal people still wouldn't have access to it, and essentially you hope that GW wouldn't just go "oh, you e-mailed for instructions, well they're available on WHPlus, lucky you" when someone requested one.
It's a feature that exists for free for most other wargaming companies, and you would want GW to monetize it, and hope GW would keep it free for those who don't subscribe too.
I think it's short-sighted, actively anti-customer as it gatekeeps something that really should be publicly available and just asking to be taken advantage of by the Corporate Daddy.
I'm also going to drop the subject now, because it's clear you don't see the issue and I doubt you will after this post either. GW is lucky to have such devoted consumers as you.
Obviously I have already subscribed as I wouldn't make such a sweeping statement regarding the value proposition otherwise.
Okay...
On a more positive note, what did you enjoy most about WH+?
I thought hammer and bolter 1+3 were very good and really enjoyed the blood angel animation.
I haven't read any of the gathering storm books so reading thos in vault has been good.
I'm not a massive fan of the battle reports, but that's mostly because I prefer my games to be a little less serious than these guys present as.
Overall certainly worth less than the cost of a pint each month.
I thought hammer and bolter 1+3 were very good and really enjoyed the blood angel animation.
I had to admit that Old Bale Eye was entertaining, even if it was lacking in frames. Deep down the Orks are the heart and soul of Warhammer, and can always have a laugh with them.
Only seen a few minutes of Angels of Death but that was pretty good. While the focus has been on Old Bale Eye recently, its worth keeping in mind that AOD was showcased previously and is hard to knock.
Nobody said however they would be only behind paywall.
It would be just like now except subscribers get additional tiny perk. Yes on product page would be better but non-subscribers wouldn't be worse than now. They want instructions, they would still get it. For free.
Reading comprehension
If you put something on WHPlus, it's behind a paywall. As it's not currently on the website, it would become a paywalled feature, just like the animations. Normal people still wouldn't have access to it, and essentially you hope that GW wouldn't just go "oh, you e-mailed for instructions, well they're available on WHPlus, lucky you" when someone requested one.
It's a feature that exists for free for most other wargaming companies, and you would want GW to monetize it, and hope GW would keep it free for those who don't subscribe too.
I think it's short-sighted, actively anti-customer as it gatekeeps something that really should be publicly available and just asking to be taken advantage of by the Corporate Daddy.
I'm also going to drop the subject now, because it's clear you don't see the issue and I doubt you will after this post either. GW is lucky to have such devoted consumers as you.
This wasn’t about being a devoted customer or defending GW. It was about can you make a reasonable point without the ludicrous hyperbole of, why don’t they just stop putting the instruction in the box and make you download them from W+? or deliberately misrepresenting what someone has said.
You can. You just did. I agree with pretty much most of what you just said, but you back-pedalled hard to get to this reasonable point. Now, does that feel better?
Nobody said however they would be only behind paywall.
It would be just like now except subscribers get additional tiny perk. Yes on product page would be better but non-subscribers wouldn't be worse than now. They want instructions, they would still get it. For free.
Reading comprehension
If you put something on WHPlus, it's behind a paywall. As it's not currently on the website, it would become a paywalled feature, just like the animations. Normal people still wouldn't have access to it, and essentially you hope that GW wouldn't just go "oh, you e-mailed for instructions, well they're available on WHPlus, lucky you" when someone requested one.
It's a feature that exists for free for most other wargaming companies, and you would want GW to monetize it, and hope GW would keep it free for those who don't subscribe too.
I think it's short-sighted, actively anti-customer as it gatekeeps something that really should be publicly available and just asking to be taken advantage of by the Corporate Daddy.
I'm also going to drop the subject now, because it's clear you don't see the issue and I doubt you will after this post either. GW is lucky to have such devoted consumers as you.
It would be both behind and out of paywall.
How hard is it to grasp? You don't need to pay to get them. Send email, get them. Just like now.
There would be zero negative change to current. Everybody has free access to them straight from gw. EVERYBODY CAN GET THEM FOR FREE. How hard is that to understand? It's not really behind paywall when you get them for free straight from producer.
I recommend going for school for class "reading english for beginners". Might be usefull.
Would be nice if you were to man up and admit you were wrong but guess too much to expect eh?
Obviously I have already subscribed as I wouldn't make such a sweeping statement regarding the value proposition otherwise.
Okay...
On a more positive note, what did you enjoy most about WH+?
I thought hammer and bolter 1+3 were very good and really enjoyed the blood angel animation.
I haven't read any of the gathering storm books so reading thos in vault has been good.
I'm not a massive fan of the battle reports, but that's mostly because I prefer my games to be a little less serious than these guys present as.
Overall certainly worth less than the cost of a pint each month.
So your saying a couple short animations are worth a pint? Which is fair for you, but some would rather just have that pint instead. Nothing wrong or for the matter right with that, its called personal choices.
I agree they should be up on their page instead of having to mail them, but I'd rather have those on a non-paywalled page for everyone to access without fuss instead of only for W+ subscribers and keeping the way it is for regular clients.
Albertorius wrote: I agree they should be up on their page instead of having to mail them, but I'd rather have those on a non-paywalled page for everyone to access without fuss instead of only for W+ subscribers and keeping the way it is for regular clients.
It should be consumer law for companies to provide manuals and supporting reference material for products and goods.
Does games workshop even provide MSDS for its various chemical products?
Albertorius wrote: I agree they should be up on their page instead of having to mail them, but I'd rather have those on a non-paywalled page for everyone to access without fuss instead of only for W+ subscribers and keeping the way it is for regular clients.
It should be consumer law for companies to provide manuals and supporting reference material for products and goods.
Does games workshop even provide MSDS for its various chemical products?
That is a legal requirement in the UK and GW meet it by providing the manuals in the box, and by providing replacements on request.
Albertorius wrote: I agree they should be up on their page instead of having to mail them, but I'd rather have those on a non-paywalled page for everyone to access without fuss instead of only for W+ subscribers and keeping the way it is for regular clients.
It should be consumer law for companies to provide manuals and supporting reference material for products and goods.
Does games workshop even provide MSDS for its various chemical products?
Albertorius wrote: I agree they should be up on their page instead of having to mail them, but I'd rather have those on a non-paywalled page for everyone to access without fuss instead of only for W+ subscribers and keeping the way it is for regular clients.
It should be consumer law for companies to provide manuals and supporting reference material for products and goods.
Does games workshop even provide MSDS for its various chemical products?
That is a legal requirement in the UK and GW meet it by providing the manuals in the box, and by providing replacements on request.
The issue is that these things need to be freely accessible - particularly MSDS. There is just no excuse why it isn't on their website.
Albertorius wrote: I agree they should be up on their page instead of having to mail them, but I'd rather have those on a non-paywalled page for everyone to access without fuss instead of only for W+ subscribers and keeping the way it is for regular clients.
It should be consumer law for companies to provide manuals and supporting reference material for products and goods.
Does games workshop even provide MSDS for its various chemical products?
You know the instructions come in the kits right?
You know sometimes they are omitted, or misprinted or ...insert scenario here...
Sorry is this some kind of lame excuse for not putting the materials on your website for the benefit of your customers?
Wow I am so impressed GW is capable of "bare minimum" .
Albertorius wrote: I agree they should be up on their page instead of having to mail them, but I'd rather have those on a non-paywalled page for everyone to access without fuss instead of only for W+ subscribers and keeping the way it is for regular clients.
It should be consumer law for companies to provide manuals and supporting reference material for products and goods.
Does games workshop even provide MSDS for its various chemical products?
You know the instructions come in the kits right?
I ain't never ever seen a GW MSDS "being included". Humour me....find an MSDS on GW's websites....I dare you
Lol, are we mad at GW this week because you have to write an email to get a replacement if you misplace your manual?
Can't we focus on something that is actually important? Like the light content coming this week to WH+ for those who subscribed or that the Orks won't get all their new stuff in one go (and we don't know when the remaining kits will be purchasable).
a_typical_hero wrote: Lol, are we mad at GW this week because you have to write an email to get a replacement if you misplace your manual?
Can't we focus on something that is actually important? Like the light content coming this week to WH+ for those who subscribed or that the Orks won't get all their new stuff in one go (and we don't know when the remaining kits will be purchasable).
Let's not talk about how GW's gratis online services are bad but instead lets talk about how GW's paywall online services are bad
a_typical_hero wrote: Lol, are we mad at GW this week because you have to write an email to get a replacement if you misplace your manual?
Can't we focus on something that is actually important? Like the light content coming this week to WH+ for those who subscribed or that the Orks won't get all their new stuff in one go (and we don't know when the remaining kits will be purchasable).
Early to say if it's light monthly, next week may be full of nice updates?
As it stands yes! its on the very light side but I need to wait for several months to see the updates, trends and if its worth it.
A few animations, BR and tuts are not really convincing me now.
This streaming service competes with my other streaming services and in therms of content quality, quantity and price its better not to compare.
Its a new channel so I will give it the benefit of the doubt for a few months.
a_typical_hero wrote: Lol, are we mad at GW this week because you have to write an email to get a replacement if you misplace your manual?
Can't we focus on something that is actually important? Like the light content coming this week to WH+ for those who subscribed or that the Orks won't get all their new stuff in one go (and we don't know when the remaining kits will be purchasable).
Seeing as I'm not subscribed, the first is actually more important to me
Albertorius wrote: I agree they should be up on their page instead of having to mail them, but I'd rather have those on a non-paywalled page for everyone to access without fuss instead of only for W+ subscribers and keeping the way it is for regular clients.
It should be consumer law for companies to provide manuals and supporting reference material for products and goods.
Does games workshop even provide MSDS for its various chemical products?
You know the instructions come in the kits right?
You know sometimes they are omitted, or misprinted or ...insert scenario here...
Sorry is this some kind of lame excuse for not putting the materials on your website for the benefit of your customers?
Wow I am so impressed GW is capable of "bare minimum" .
Im not saying it wouldn’t be a good idea to have all the instructions for free on the site, but saying ‘it should be consumer law to provide manuals’ is a weird comment when they literally do that, in the box.
I’m pretty sure MSDS laws are just a workplace thing, for hazardous chemicals, not something that you need to provide consumers for things like paint.
I mean on the paint pots it says "Conforms to ASTM" which is a safety regulator for products, the paint is only sold to people aged 12+ as it says on the pots, and it has the Euro safety stamp or whatever. So yes, GW is very much following the law with regards to product safety.
I've generally found that 12-plus-year-olds don't need to be told not to eat paint either but hey what do I know.
Gert wrote: I mean on the paint pots it says "Conforms to ASTM" which is a safety regulator for products, the paint is only sold to people aged 12+ as it says on the pots, and it has the Euro safety stamp or whatever. So yes, GW is very much following the law with regards to product safety.
I've generally found that 12-plus-year-olds don't need to be told not to eat paint either but hey what do I know.
Conforms to ASTM D4236 means the product meets certain labelling requirements. It doesn't mean its "safe". There's plenty of materials that conform to ASTM D4236 that could make you drop dead.
An MSDS contains concise, easy to follow and practical information. Labelling regulation does not.
How about the 30+ years GW has been operating as a company? You think that in those 30+ years, for 26 of which it's been public, GW has been selling harmful materials without any regulator finding out?
Christ, I know you hate GW but now you're really grasping at straws.
Gert wrote: How about the 30+ years GW has been operating as a company? You think that in those 30+ years GW has been selling harmful materials without any regulator finding out?
Christ, I know you hate GW but now you're really grasping at straws.
I am not grasping at anything.
For your information GW sells many hazardous materials. The issue is they don't provide accessible MSDS because they do the bare minimum
Someone shared an MSDS on the OOP mechrite red on a forum. They obtained it by asking mail order at that time. In that MSDS it suggested seeking medical advice if ingested. The MSDS also suggested wearing eye protection. Geeeeeeeeee whizzzzzz....if only we could have easy access to these documents you could wake up to yourself.
It is telling when a company doesn't provide MSDS on its website. That company doesn't give a toss about its consumers. The streaming service is one thing but providing MSDS.
Just because you think this isn't important, doesn't mean it is not important.
It's way more important than a crappy streaming service. It concerns consumer rights to accessible information.
Sorry, but not sorry. GW does a gak job and needs to do better.
GoldenHorde wrote: In that MSDS it suggested seeking medical advice if ingested. The MSDS also suggested wearing eye protection.
You shouldn't need to be told not to eat paint or huff paint fumes as a teenager. I was told not to eat paint when I was in nursery.
The spray cans also contain instructions on how to operate them which says to use them in well-ventialted areas (i.e. outside), not to breathe the fumes, to wear protective gloves and to rinse your eyes if anything gets in them and to seek medical attention if you feel unwell.
When you buy the products in a GW store the staff legally cannot sell the products to you if you are underage and if you are then they will inform the adult accompanying you of the risks.
If you've drunk a pot of paint then that's on you.
I looked it up and I even think GoldenHorde is right.
But come on man, do you really need somebody to tell you to seek medical advice if you swallow paint?
If the topic is so important to you, I'm sure you have already contacted GW in the past and got a copy of their MSDS, seeing as they are legally forced to provide one, right...?
It wouldn't possibly be just a rant on the internet for something that you couldn't give gak about but it is another point to attack an entity you dislike, right...?
GoldenHorde wrote: In that MSDS it suggested seeking medical advice if ingested. The MSDS also suggested wearing eye protection.
You shouldn't need to be told not to eat paint or huff paint fumes as a teenager. I was told not to eat paint when I was in nursery.
The spray cans also contain instructions on how to operate them which says to use them in well-ventialted areas (i.e. outside), not to breathe the fumes, to wear protective gloves and to rinse your eyes if anything gets in them and to seek medical attention if you feel unwell.
When you buy the products in a GW store the staff legally cannot sell the products to you if you are underage and if you are then they will inform the adult accompanying you of the risks.
If you've drunk a pot of paint then that's on you.
And still.... I'm sure many people lick their pincels?
Also, the GW staff might very well be legally obligated to not sell products to underage clients, but if so... nobody has told them. I know because I worked there 5 years. No training about that, at all, no guidelines about what to sell to whom.
Gert wrote: How about the 30+ years GW has been operating as a company? You think that in those 30+ years, for 26 of which it's been public, GW has been selling harmful materials without any regulator finding out?
Christ, I know you hate GW but now you're really grasping at straws.
things change over time, I have been working with some materials that were considered save for 20 years and over night being rated as poisonous and the reason why no one in the department died in those 20 years was that we have strict safety procedures no matter how dangerous a material is
by selling some materials companies are forced by law to handle you an MSDS on the first order if the materials are harmful
some hardware stores have colours and cleaning chemicals looked in as the store need to "inform" you first about the stuff in the MSDS before they can sell it
Albertorius wrote: And still.... I'm sure many people lick their pincels?
which should be only done with clean ones anyway, not with colour on it
but than there are those workers in Switzerland with tongue cancer because they licked the brushes and years later it was confirmed that the paint glowing in the dark on watches did so because it was radioactive
Albertorius wrote: And still.... I'm sure many people lick their pincels?
And they usually get told not to. What's the point here?
kodos wrote: things change over time, I have been working with some materials that were considered save for 20 years and over night being rated as poisonous and the reason why no one in the department died in those 20 years was that we have strict safety procedures no matter how dangerous a material is
That is workplace safety which is similar but different to product safety.
by selling some materials companies are forced by law to handle you an MSDS on the first order if the materials are harmful
some hardware stores have colours and cleaning chemicals looked in as the store need to "inform" you first about the stuff in the MSDS before they can sell it
Yes, I am aware of this.
Just as a side note BTW, neither Warlord Games nor the Corvus Belli online stores have direct access to MSDS documents. So either all three companies are breaking the law, or more likely they aren't and GoldenHorde is grasping at straws to justify their hatred of GW.
Albertorius wrote: And still.... I'm sure many people lick their pincels?
And they usually get told not to. What's the point here?
People do stupid gak all the time? Without needing to be a toddler?
And hey, they might not if they actually knew it was dangerous. But thing is, even to staffers, we were told GW paints are absolutely safe for everyone. We were specifically told to say "well, don't drink the pots, of course, because that's stupid, but it's absolutely safe and you won't have any issue if you use to lick your brushes". That is literally from a GW trainer, told to us.
The "eating paint" retort, is, simply, a little bit of shaming and a lot of itsyourownfault-ing.
Please explain to me how it's the fault of GW if someone eats their paint. As in not just "whoops I tried to get a point on my brush with my mouth (also something you're told not to do BTW) and I've got a little bit of paint in my mouth".
I'm not even swinging for GW here, I'm just expecting basic levels of common sense.
Gert wrote: Please explain to me how it's the fault of GW if someone eats their paint. As in not just "whoops I tried to get a point on my brush with my mouth (also something you're told not to do BTW) and I've got a little bit of paint in my mouth".
I'm not even swinging for GW here, I'm just expecting basic levels of common sense.
Oh, then "licking your brushes, wich have paint" is not "eating paint"? OK. It's a matter of degrees, them. How much paint, then is needed to "eat" in order for it to be dangerous? Because the spiel from GW is, I repeat "don't drink them because it's stupid, but they're absolutely A-OK". Meaning, from the POV of GW's training, eating paint is ok and GW paints are 100% safe.
I was there, you know. I got told that. By GW.
To clarify, the idea transmitted to us was not "don't eat paint because it's dangerous in quantities, but licking brushes is OK because there's too little". It was "don't eat paint because people don't do that. But you could".
Gert wrote: I'm not even swinging for GW here, I'm just expecting basic levels of common sense.
well, there are different levels of products out there, the basic, like finger paints must be kids save so that nothing happens of they eat it
same with food colours that are expected to be eaten but still have warnings of not using too much
and if a paint product is advertised for teens, it is meant to be save for teens and "common sense" is different for non adults
so selling a paint were you need to be an adult to have the common sense of not eating it to kids or teens is something different
but we also live in a society were you need to warn people that the coffee might be hot (I am from Austria, here you would sue the bar if the coffee is cold not the other way around)
than looking on the Vallejo paint bottles, they are marked as "non toxic, without heavy metals" were the Army Painter bottles have "non-toxic in case of eye contact rinse with water" on them
the GW battles are blank without any further information on them, which would mean "kids save"
GoldenHorde wrote: In that MSDS it suggested seeking medical advice if ingested. The MSDS also suggested wearing eye protection.
You shouldn't need to be told not to eat paint or huff paint fumes as a teenager. I was told not to eat paint when I was in nursery.
The spray cans also contain instructions on how to operate them which says to use them in well-ventialted areas (i.e. outside), not to breathe the fumes, to wear protective gloves and to rinse your eyes if anything gets in them and to seek medical attention if you feel unwell.
When you buy the products in a GW store the staff legally cannot sell the products to you if you are underage and if you are then they will inform the adult accompanying you of the risks.
If you've drunk a pot of paint then that's on you.
Let's apply your anti-intellectualism in your own flippant style of delivery;
You are allergic to certain paints. I guess you had it coming because you shouldn't be told which paints you might be allergic to
You should invoke your psychic powers to obtain this information
GW doesn't give a toss. End of story.
Here's an on demand (free btw) example of someone who shouldn't be told to wear a mask when working with resin.
There's your 30 years gold standard right there being negligent in setting a bad example of health and safety.
Dumbing down the issue isn't helping you. Common sense would be putting MSDS on your website.
Albertorius wrote: Oh, then "licking your brushes, wich have paint" is not "eating paint"? OK. It's a matter of degrees, them. How much paint, then is needed to "eat" in order for it to be dangerous? Because the spiel from GW is, I repeat "don't drink them because it's stupid, but they're absolutely A-OK". Meaning, from the POV of GW's training, eating paint is ok and GW paints are 100% safe.
You mean licking your brushes, another thing you are told not to do like I said in the post.
I was there, you know. I got told that. By GW.
To clarify, the idea transmitted to us was not "don't eat paint because it's dangerous in quantities, but licking brushes is OK because there's too little". It was "don't eat paint because people don't do that. But you could"
And I was told by staff not to lick my brushes and told when I was 4 years old not to eat paint.
The sticking point here isn't that it's up to GW to tell you not to eat paint, it's that GoldenHorde seems to think that GW should be telling people not to eat paint.
and if a paint product is advertised for teens, it is meant to be save for teens and "common sense" is different for non adults
so selling a paint were you need to be an adult to have the common sense of not eating it to kids or teens is something different
It isn't adult levels of common sense to not eat paint.
than looking on the Vallejo paint bottles, they are marked as "non toxic, without heavy metals" were the Army Painter bottles have "non-toxic in case of eye contact rinse with water" on them
the GW battles are blank without any further information on them, which would mean "kids save"
I've not had any non-GW paints for a very long time so I can't comment on the first part. The second part is nonsense, however. The paints all say 12+ so clearly the product is not intended for children and should not be given to them.
@GoldenHorde
Spoiler:
GoldenHorde wrote: Let's apply your anti-intellectualism in your own flippant style of delivery;
You are allergic to certain paints. I guess you had it coming because you shouldn't be told which paints you might be allergic to
You should invoke your psychic powers to obtain this information
Either:
A - You know you have allergies to certain types of paint, then yes, it is up to you to check.
B - You have discovered that you are allergic to GW paints without prior knowledge and it's neither party's fault.
Regardless you should not be eating your paint for any reason.
Here's an on demand (free btw) example of someone who shouldn't be told to wear a mask when working with resin.
There's your 30 years gold standard right there being negligent in setting a bad example of health and safety.
Dumbing down the issue isn't helping you.
The mask advice is an oversight for sure.
However, "A Guide to Building Resin Models" on WarCom (the more up-to-date guide) says to wear a mask all over the place.
I've said all I want to say on this so I will read replies but won't be discussing it further.
To clarify, the idea transmitted to us was not "don't eat paint because it's dangerous in quantities, but licking brushes is OK because there's too little". It was "don't eat paint because people don't do that. But you could"
And I was told by staff not to lick my brushes and told when I was 4 years old not to eat paint.
The sticking point here isn't that it's up to GW to tell you not to eat paint, it's that GoldenHorde seems to think that GW should be telling people not to eat paint.
I don't really see how one thing precludes the other, as I said. I've been that staff.
The sticking point is that GW trains their staff to "know" that GW paints are absolutely and perfectly safe, no matter what you decide to do with them. Which seems to contradict the actual MSDS of, at least, Mechrite Red (that suggested seeking medical advice if ingested and wearing eye protection). Maybe stop trying to frame it as "don't be a 4 year old".
If you Google 'deionised water msds', the first result says that if you ingest it, you should 'Rinse mouth thoroughly with water. Give plenty of water to drink'.
Lord Damocles wrote: If you Google 'deionised water msds', the first result says that if you ingest it, you should 'Rinse mouth thoroughly with water. Give plenty of water to drink'.
That unsafe water, dude...
Interestingly enough, it doesn't tell you to go seek medical help ^^. Wait, it does xD, "if discomfort continues" (but not as first reaction).
I'm as critical of GW as the next guy, specially as of late, but I have to say some people on dakka have the weirdest of reasons to bash GW, specially over, and over again.
And I don't even know why, is not like GW is lacking of things to critizise about it.
and if a paint product is advertised for teens, it is meant to be save for teens and "common sense" is different for non adults
so selling a paint were you need to be an adult to have the common sense of not eating it to kids or teens is something different
It isn't adult levels of common sense to not eat paint.
than looking on the Vallejo paint bottles, they are marked as "non toxic, without heavy metals" were the Army Painter bottles have "non-toxic in case of eye contact rinse with water" on them
the GW battles are blank without any further information on them, which would mean "kids save"
I've not had any non-GW paints for a very long time so I can't comment on the first part. The second part is nonsense, however. The paints all say 12+ so clearly the product is not intended for children and should not be given to them.
nothing on mine, just 12ml and conforms to ASTM D-4236
Lord Damocles wrote: If you Google 'deionised water msds', the first result says that if you ingest it, you should 'Rinse mouth thoroughly with water. Give plenty of water to drink'.
That unsafe water, dude...
yes, deionised water is harmful and unsafe, getting that far that it breaks your skin open if you wash yourself with it more often (starting with irritations but if you continue)
because it lacks all non water ions you get an aggressive osmotic reaction so that it "sucks out" ions from your body, adding non-deionised water to dilute it and compensate
Do you all want to take this absolute farce of an argument elsewhere?
Back to the topic, only one new animation this week is poor, it also doesn't make much sense. 3x episodes of hammer and bolter on release then nothing?
It already looks as if they were too ambitious and have launched too soon, and/or want to start recouping some of the investment already, not sure it will bring in many new subscribers over this week if they were sitting on the fence.
Given I still think it is good value for the year with the miniature, voucher and what is in the vault, I will re-iterate what I said many pages back.... They will need to pony up with a miniature of the quality of the Vindicare EVERY year at this rate to justify the annual price with this sort of release rate.
I think it will be the case of, have it for the year.... 6-9 months off, then jump on and binge for a few months before stopping again, without any of the miniature benefits. A lot like I will be doing with Disney plus, I'll wait for the next season of Mando, at which point I'll also have Loki, Falcon and the winter soldier, bad batch etc etc to also watch and binge, then jump off again till the next Mando or something of similar draw for me.
Not sure GW will be able to keep Warhammer TV running if they have around 10-20k subscribers, with a core number of that who jump in and out of subscriptions.
I think the mini quality will keep up.
I'm willing to give the service a break with regards to content, restrictions might have been axed in England but we don't know the exact policy GW is following in its offices. Hang Out and Hobby still seems to be broadcast from the presenter's homes so I'm assuming that the team is running on reduced studio time.
It already looks as if they were too ambitious and have launched too soon, and/or want to start recouping some of the investment already, not sure it will bring in many new subscribers over this week if they were sitting on the fence.
Given I still think it is good value for the year with the miniature, voucher (snip)
Not sure GW will be able to keep Warhammer TV running if they have around 10-20k subscribers, with a core number of that who jump in and out of subscriptions.
Well 1 animation, 1 battle report, 1 tut will not fill me with a weeks worth of content or persuade me that this channel will ever have enough to justify its existence.
I think the voucher and mini are artificial ways to mitigate the price and are not asked for.
If I pay for a streaming channel I want a good streaming channel. Not minis.
I think it's worth it. As someone who enjoys reading lore and catching up on content I may have missed in the past- this was a no-brainer for me. Warhammer Visions 1-30, White Dwarf 450-459 with more expected to come, and some older lore releases that were probably $10-25 all free. I'm an anime fan so the animation is not really up to the quality that I enjoy, BUT the stories have been very interesting. Especially the first two; of the first two definitely the second. I don't like how GW does 40k Orks so there was no chance I was going to enjoy(subjectively) the last animation from Hammer and Bolter.
I think the content I have most enjoyed so far has been the Masterclass series. The two videos hit two things I'm probably the weakest and her explanations/teaching style were easy for me to follow. I would argue those were two of the best painting videos I've seen from GW in a long time. As someone who contributes to a painter's Patreon, I'm not going to compare a channel dedicated to painting to GW, but Masterclass exceeded my expectations - she even used wet pallets.
Sidenote - are manicures not a thing in GB or maybe they are all shut down due to the pandemic? My one production complaint about the masterclass video is her hands were gnarly. If I'm producing a video guide and long scenes are focused on my hands/fingers I'm making sure that individual has at least clean-looking hands. The guys seem to do this much better than the women at GW. Duncan always had super clean-looking hands, but the first lady and this woman do not.
It already looks as if they were too ambitious and have launched too soon, and/or want to start recouping some of the investment already, not sure it will bring in many new subscribers over this week if they were sitting on the fence.
Given I still think it is good value for the year with the miniature, voucher (snip)
Not sure GW will be able to keep Warhammer TV running if they have around 10-20k subscribers, with a core number of that who jump in and out of subscriptions.
Well 1 animation, 1 battle report, 1 tut will not fill me with a weeks worth of content or persuade me that this channel will ever have enough to justify its existence.
I think the voucher and mini are artificial ways to mitigate the price and are not asked for.
If I pay for a streaming channel I want a good streaming channel. Not minis.
The thing is, you're not paying for a streaming channel. You may only be interested in the streamed content, and there's nothing wrong with evaluating value for money based on that. But you need to be aware that GW only sells the complete package of apps, streams, fluff and ancillary materials, and the promo miniature. If you're only interested in part of Warhammer+, you won't get as much out of it or see updates as frequently as someone who's in it for everything.
There's is nothing more artificial about the voucher and the model than about app access, or the White Dwarf back catalogue, or whatever. It's all there to raise the attractiveness of handing over a certain sum of money to GW each month or year. You get a variety thrown at you in the hopes that enough of it appeals to make it worth your while.
Since GW is now committed to running their games with subscription based companion apps, and the Warhammer+ subscription is a far more economic way of of subscribing to them than doing so individually, especially if you play more than one game, I'd say we should at least hold off on judging the long term viability of the service until the world has gone back to normal and most people can actually go out and play again. That part of the subscription isn't worth much to a lot of people at the moment. I hate to be the guy who says wait and see, but since Warhammer+ is either subscribed to in full or not at all, having parts that are currently not relevant distorts the potential attractiveness of the service. This may not have been the best time to launch it, but it is definitely not the time to evaluate it.
What I don't expect to change anytime soon is the update pace of the streaming part. I'm sure we're all hoping for more, but I'm confident that yesterday's announcement is indicative of what we can expect in the coming weeks and months. If you're only in it for the streams, that's what you'll get, and as noted, it isn't all that much.
Sidenote - are manicures not a thing in GB or maybe they are all shut down due to the pandemic? My one production complaint about the masterclass video is her hands were gnarly. If I'm producing a video guide and long scenes are focused on my hands/fingers I'm making sure that individual has at least clean-looking hands. The guys seem to do this much better than the women at GW. Duncan always had super clean-looking hands, but the first lady and this woman do not.
WHAT?! Manicures are a thing but its more a case of lack of personal hygiene than anything, by the sounds.
Dont get it either, you would think if your going to film something to be displayed for thousands and representing a big company you would at least go to the effort to wash/clean your hands....right?
The first couple of weekly updates was something I was paying attention to before possibly subbing to see what the ongoing experience would be like. The initial offering was too small for me to get onboard and the first update does note bode well if that's the way things will continue.
It also seems pretty minimal effort with adding a couple of issues of WD a week and some random extra lore-related written material. I think GW said they had 11 different animated series in production but so far it looks like we're getting H&B and AoD only for the foreseeable future. I'd have liked to have seen more volume and variety.
It already looks as if they were too ambitious and have launched too soon, and/or want to start recouping some of the investment already, not sure it will bring in many new subscribers over this week if they were sitting on the fence.
Given I still think it is good value for the year with the miniature, voucher (snip)
Not sure GW will be able to keep Warhammer TV running if they have around 10-20k subscribers, with a core number of that who jump in and out of subscriptions.
Well 1 animation, 1 battle report, 1 tut will not fill me with a weeks worth of content or persuade me that this channel will ever have enough to justify its existence.
I think the voucher and mini are artificial ways to mitigate the price and are not asked for.
If I pay for a streaming channel I want a good streaming channel. Not minis.
The thing is, you're not paying for a streaming channel. You may only be interested in the streamed content, and there's nothing wrong with evaluating value for money based on that. But you need to be aware that GW only sells the complete package of apps, streams, fluff and ancillary materials, and the promo miniature. If you're only interested in part of Warhammer+, you won't get as much out of it or see updates as frequently as someone who's in it for everything.
There's is nothing more artificial about the voucher and the model than about app access, or the White Dwarf back catalogue, or whatever. It's all there to raise the attractiveness of handing over a certain sum of money to GW each month or year. You get a variety thrown at you in the hopes that enough of it appeals to make it worth your while.
Since GW is now committed to running their games with subscription based companion apps, and the Warhammer+ subscription is a far more economic way of of subscribing to them than doing so individually, especially if you play more than one game, I'd say we should at least hold off on judging the long term viability of the service until the world has gone back to normal and most people can actually go out and play again. That part of the subscription isn't worth much to a lot of people at the moment. I hate to be the guy who says wait and see, but since Warhammer+ is either subscribed to in full or not at all, having parts that are currently not relevant distorts the potential attractiveness of the service. This may not have been the best time to launch it, but it is definitely not the time to evaluate it.
What I don't expect to change anytime soon is the update pace of the streaming part. I'm sure we're all hoping for more, but I'm confident that yesterday's announcement is indicative of what we can expect in the coming weeks and months. If you're only in it for the streams, that's what you'll get, and as noted, it isn't all that much.
Yes I agree with the majority of what you said and for me, at this time, I would welcome a stronger streaming hobby content ( and I believe GW has the means and money to deliver that). The fact that they are agglomerating loads of things into the service to make it more appealing its actually working against them.
Silly inverted example: but lets say I want to buy a hero miniature for 25£, I just go and do so and have my mini to paint. Although if I go to the store and the guy tells me the mini costs 25£ + 5£ because it has a streaming service attached then I would probably walk away.
In the case of a paying for a streaming channel I just want that a streaming channel, the other bits attached to "add" or "justify" value I really don't need since I have it already.
In short I get why brands do this sometimes, they are selling the brand rather than the service itself. Unfortunately If I contract a a service I just want that delivered and then the brand fidelity comes after that good service is provided. Failing that you have neither.
Sidenote - are manicures not a thing in GB or maybe they are all shut down due to the pandemic? My one production complaint about the masterclass video is her hands were gnarly. If I'm producing a video guide and long scenes are focused on my hands/fingers I'm making sure that individual has at least clean-looking hands. The guys seem to do this much better than the women at GW. Duncan always had super clean-looking hands, but the first lady and this woman do not.
WHAT?! Manicures are a thing but its more a case of lack of personal hygiene than anything, by the sounds.
Dont get it either, you would think if your going to film something to be displayed for thousands and representing a big company you would at least go to the effort to wash/clean your hands....right?
For some reason, that area of personal hygiene gets overlooked quite often. People will take care to have their hair neatly cut, their faces etc clean shaven, their clothes clean - and then BOOM, gnarly fingers and long ratty nails with dirt under them.
Gert wrote: This is quite rude, team. Focus on the content for god's sake and don't ridicule someone's appearance.
Should have added: there's always someone who takes offense when you bring up the nails thing, as if reminding someone to trim and clean their nails is a grave personal attack. Like clockwork. That particular topic triggers a certain kind of person like no other.
Maybe I just think people should focus on the content and not people's appearance.
I'm sure it's just a coincidence that Louise is the only female/woman presenter and people don't seem to have complained about Nick Bayton or Chris Peach in the same way.
Gert wrote: This is quite rude, team. Focus on the content for god's sake and don't ridicule someone's appearance.
Should have added: there's always someone who takes offense when you bring up the nails thing, as if reminding someone to trim and clean their nails is a grave personal attack. Like clockwork. That particular topic triggers a certain kind of person like no other.
Thank you for your service, Gert.
Or maybe they take offence in such rude comments behind face. Got guts to say that to her straight up? Or only here where she isn't reading?
Slipspace wrote: The first couple of weekly updates was something I was paying attention to before possibly subbing to see what the ongoing experience would be like. The initial offering was too small for me to get onboard and the first update does note bode well if that's the way things will continue.
It also seems pretty minimal effort with adding a couple of issues of WD a week and some random extra lore-related written material. I think GW said they had 11 different animated series in production but so far it looks like we're getting H&B and AoD only for the foreseeable future. I'd have liked to have seen more volume and variety.
I'm surprised both by how little content there was at launch, and how little they're currently adding per week. Unless particularly interested in the voucher or miniature, I'd certainly just wait a few months, sub in a period when you've got a few days off and can just watch through it all, then resub again a year later when there's a reasonable amount of new stuff. Subjective value can be endlessly debated, but it's objectively very light on content as far as the actual videos are concerned, certainly compared to other streaming platforms or even the output of a half-devoted hobbyist on YouTube.
So, off topic, but phandaal... Who are they? The way they are posting for someone on such a short post amount means they are certainly someone already on here, or has been in the past and was banned, or maybe wanted a clean slate (probably from all the vitriol from the outstandingly rude posts you make about other members). Take it back a couple of notches, or well 5.
It already looks as if they were too ambitious and have launched too soon, and/or want to start recouping some of the investment already, not sure it will bring in many new subscribers over this week if they were sitting on the fence.
Given I still think it is good value for the year with the miniature, voucher (snip)
Not sure GW will be able to keep Warhammer TV running if they have around 10-20k subscribers, with a core number of that who jump in and out of subscriptions.
Well 1 animation, 1 battle report, 1 tut will not fill me with a weeks worth of content or persuade me that this channel will ever have enough to justify its existence.
I think the voucher and mini are artificial ways to mitigate the price and are not asked for.
If I pay for a streaming channel I want a good streaming channel. Not minis.
The thing is, you're not paying for a streaming channel. You may only be interested in the streamed content, and there's nothing wrong with evaluating value for money based on that. But you need to be aware that GW only sells the complete package of apps, streams, fluff and ancillary materials, and the promo miniature. If you're only interested in part of Warhammer+, you won't get as much out of it or see updates as frequently as someone who's in it for everything.
There's is nothing more artificial about the voucher and the model than about app access, or the White Dwarf back catalogue, or whatever. It's all there to raise the attractiveness of handing over a certain sum of money to GW each month or year. You get a variety thrown at you in the hopes that enough of it appeals to make it worth your while.
Since GW is now committed to running their games with subscription based companion apps, and the Warhammer+ subscription is a far more economic way of of subscribing to them than doing so individually, especially if you play more than one game, I'd say we should at least hold off on judging the long term viability of the service until the world has gone back to normal and most people can actually go out and play again. That part of the subscription isn't worth much to a lot of people at the moment. I hate to be the guy who says wait and see, but since Warhammer+ is either subscribed to in full or not at all, having parts that are currently not relevant distorts the potential attractiveness of the service. This may not have been the best time to launch it, but it is definitely not the time to evaluate it.
What I don't expect to change anytime soon is the update pace of the streaming part. I'm sure we're all hoping for more, but I'm confident that yesterday's announcement is indicative of what we can expect in the coming weeks and months. If you're only in it for the streams, that's what you'll get, and as noted, it isn't all that much.
But once all the past content has been consumed (or used up to the point of the persons interest) what is there other than new content, which is thin, and a past white dwarf every month, and maybe the odd novel they throw on there. Dipping back to your favourite white dwarfs may happen also, but is that alone worth £5 a month?
All the new content will be pretty much video, which is thin at the moment and doesn't look like it will increase substantially soon.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: So, off topic, but phandaal... Who are they? The way they are posting for someone on such a short post amount means they are certainly someone already on here, or has been in the past and was banned, or maybe wanted a clean slate
Sorry to disappoint - never been a member of this forum before. Long time listener, first time caller.
Anyway, mods don't want any more off topic posts. Keeping the comments on this thread strictly focused on Warhammer+ itself going forward.
Gert wrote: This is quite rude, team. Focus on the content for god's sake and don't ridicule someone's appearance.
Should have added: there's always someone who takes offense when you bring up the nails thing, as if reminding someone to trim and clean their nails is a grave personal attack. Like clockwork. That particular topic triggers a certain kind of person like no other.
Thank you for your service, Gert.
Or maybe they take offence in such rude comments behind face. Got guts to say that to her straight up? Or only here where she isn't reading?
Mighty bold to assume someone who is in the military and regularly corrects people on having bad hygiene wouldn’t do it to someone to their face. If I can tell someone who is trained to kill people for a living to cut their nasty nails you don’t think I would do it to a 90 lbs woman?.
Also when I said clean I meant manicure clean, not didn’t wash hands clean. Like no hangnails, uniform length of nails, etc. I’m not insulting her appearance she seems good looking enough. I just think GW should have sprang the money for a manicurist to do some work before they started production. It’s about the content and reducing distractions. I’m sorry if seeing dry skin and hangnails is distracting to me while I’m trying to watch a tutorial. I’m not insulting anyone and I fail to see how talking about content is off topic.
actually manicurists/nail salons etc were one of the places of work & jobs in the UK that were under restriction longer than almost everything else being both close contact, and not essential (pretty much the only things hit worse were night clubs)
so depending on when the videos were made she might not have had access to them
NAVARRO wrote: Yes I agree with the majority of what you said and for me, at this time, I would welcome a stronger streaming hobby content ( and I believe GW has the means and money to deliver that). The fact that they are agglomerating loads of things into the service to make it more appealing its actually working against them.
I mean, yeah, it is working against them. It's also working for them. The relevant question, to GW really since it's their profits on the line, is how many people fall in the former category and how many in the latter.
I reckon they could have parceled out several things and allowed people to customize their subscriptions with specific services at different payment levels but decided against it for one reason or another, opting for the all in option as the only one instead. I don't know if it's going to work out for them, but they certainly positioned themselves in believing more people will bite due to the offer having a critical amount of content compared to the ones with specific interests for which there's not enough bang for their buck to subscribe, or only subscribe part time to binge.
NAVARRO wrote: Silly inverted example: but lets say I want to buy a hero miniature for 25£, I just go and do so and have my mini to paint. Although if I go to the store and the guy tells me the mini costs 25£ + 5£ because it has a streaming service attached then I would probably walk away.
In the case of a paying for a streaming channel I just want that a streaming channel, the other bits attached to "add" or "justify" value I really don't need since I have it already.
In short I get why brands do this sometimes, they are selling the brand rather than the service itself. Unfortunately If I contract a a service I just want that delivered and then the brand fidelity comes after that good service is provided. Failing that you have neither.
In my view it depends on how you look at it. In isolation that 25 pound plus 5 combo wouldn't be sold as 25+5 and instead just as a package for 30 with no mention of individual valuation. That's Warhammer+ right now as advertised by GW. You're only getting those 25 pounds for the model because that offer doesn't exist in isolation and you see other manufacturers and even the same manufacturer offer comparable models for that price. There are plenty of people who justified their value perception with a breakdown citing what the assassin or orc would go for if they were sold individually, which we have a pretty good idea of, how the voucher figures in, what value they place on battle reports straight from GW when there are independent battle reports freely available, and so on. It's in large part how I look at it as well.
The question for me isn't if we apply our personal biases to judge the value of the service, which of course we do because it's in our individual interest to do so, but if we can reconcile that with a measure of understanding for what GW wants to sell us. They make it clear that they want Warhammer+ to be a package deal, and that any investment into the individual sections is an update to the whole that adds value to the whole, not just that section. It's really the difference in approach between looking at what you want and asking the company to supply it, and looking at what the company offers and then deciding if that fits your needs. What GW does with Warhammer+ really only provides the latter, with no option for the former. It's how they generally operate, but after many decades in business it's less noticeable on the miniatures and even fiction side of the business that allow the customer a much greater flexibility in picking exactly what they need. That too has obvious limits. You couldn't buy plastic Sisters for the longest time, and then you sat there just like you do now with Warhammer+ wondering how you can get from GW what you want when they are simply not willing to provide it. Compared to Warhammer+, though, the miniatures side of the business is a paradise of plenty in which you have a lot of freedom of choice. I'm not sure if anything that's now under the Warhammer+ heading will be delivered differently, but at the moment it's a pretty stark contrast between these things even though the underlying business strategy is the same. GW provides what GW wants to provide, the customer decides if it's for them.
I'm not sure I'm really going anywhere with this other than if you're being realistic, it's early days for Warhammer+ and whatever the service may yet become, for now it's predictably limited and it may not be the worst idea to just take it for what it is for the time being. Right now Warhammer+ is not a streaming channel, but has streams as part of it, and GW has no idea in which way how many of its customers value the different parts of their service. It seems a bit too focused on your own interests to me to focus so much on the streaming part when GW offers a wider service because realistically they had no data to base this service on and going all in on the animations without proven payoff could put them in dire financial peril. As much as the customer should consider their own needs first, you can't really escape a business's need for prudent financial planning. And for GW that means building up the service slow, so no individual part will blow people away at first. Nor the whole, if we're being honest.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: actually manicurists/nail salons etc were one of the places of work & jobs in the UK that were under restriction longer than almost everything else being both close contact, and not essential (pretty much the only things hit worse were night clubs)
so depending on when the videos were made she might not have had access to them
That's a good point. GW may have done the best they could given the restrictions.
I reckon they could have parceled out several things and allowed people to customize their subscriptions with specific services at different payment levels but decided against it for one reason or another, opting for the all in option as the only one instead. I don't know if it's going to work out for them, but they certainly positioned themselves in believing more people will bite due to the offer having a critical amount of content compared to the ones with specific interests for which there's not enough bang for their buck to subscribe, or only subscribe part time to binge.
In my view it depends on how you look at it. In isolation that 25 pound plus 5 combo wouldn't be sold as 25+5 and instead just as a package for 30 with no mention of individual valuation. That's Warhammer+ right now as advertised by GW. You're only getting those 25 pounds for the model because that offer doesn't exist in isolation and you see other manufacturers and even the same manufacturer offer comparable models for that price. There are plenty of people who justified their value perception with a breakdown citing what the assassin or orc would go for if they were sold individually, which we have a pretty good idea of, how the voucher figures in, what value they place on battle reports straight from GW when there are independent battle reports freely available, and so on. It's in large part how I look at it as well.
I'm not sure I'm really going anywhere with this other than if you're being realistic, it's early days for Warhammer+ and whatever the service may yet become, for now it's predictably limited and it may not be the worst idea to just take it for what it is for the time being. Right now Warhammer+ is not a streaming channel, but has streams as part of it, and GW has no idea in which way how many of its customers value the different parts of their service. It seems a bit too focused on your own interests to me to focus so much on the streaming part when GW offers a wider service because realistically they had no data to base this service on and going all in on the animations without proven payoff could put them in dire financial peril. As much as the customer should consider their own needs first, you can't really escape a business's need for prudent financial planning. And for GW that means building up the service slow, so no individual part will blow people away at first. Nor the whole, if we're being honest.
I see where you are coming from, and again I do agree with many of your points. Mind that I can only express my own selfish interest in the channel and how I perceive it. Just having a chat on how this would suit me and how I value it. Cannot really say about others but I hope subscribers get what they want and GW continues increasing its services.
Yes GW decided to create this one pack for all. The "novelty" of this pack, should I dare to say is the Warhammer TV, a place where streaming should be covered.
Old white dwarfs, apps and minis are already a service they provide but the TV part was fragmented on YouTube, twitch and GW site. Its clever to sell that streaming service too but not bundled in like this.
Why? Because If I already have the minis, WD etc but would welcome a place for all YT and twitch content with new anims and professional exclusive content I cannot just buy that.
Thats the reason I call the value of the pack artificial because in reality I personally dont need to buy a mini or old WD...I have those.
Yes GW thinks this is the best way to sell the Warhammer TV, I would just welcome more abundance of Warhammer TV content instead.
Wait and see is what Im doing now and hopefully the reports from the subscribers here, good and bad will keep coming.
Sidenote - are manicures not a thing in GB or maybe they are all shut down due to the pandemic? My one production complaint about the masterclass video is her hands were gnarly. If I'm producing a video guide and long scenes are focused on my hands/fingers I'm making sure that individual has at least clean-looking hands. The guys seem to do this much better than the women at GW. Duncan always had super clean-looking hands, but the first lady and this woman do not.
HAHAHA! I'm happy I'm not the only one who noticed this. Once I saw it, it was difficult to watch the close up portions of the videos. I hope she does get a manicure, cuz... damn.
Sidenote - are manicures not a thing in GB or maybe they are all shut down due to the pandemic? My one production complaint about the masterclass video is her hands were gnarly. If I'm producing a video guide and long scenes are focused on my hands/fingers I'm making sure that individual has at least clean-looking hands. The guys seem to do this much better than the women at GW. Duncan always had super clean-looking hands, but the first lady and this woman do not.
HAHAHA! I'm happy I'm not the only one who noticed this. Once I saw it, it was difficult to watch the close up portions of the videos. I hope she does get a manicure, cuz... damn.
This is also something I don't get in some painting videos, not cleaning the one thing from your body that is showing 90% of the time, while making sure that the face, hair, cloths are looking perfect for the breath seconds they are seen
PS: talking about the "content" is difficult if there is just not enough to talk about
On the whole topic of "value", I just want to point out that currently Warhammer+ is roughly the cost of a fast food meal, or perhaps even a bit less than that, per month. That seems "worth it" to me for a few hours of animation and battle reports, in addition to all the back issues of White Dwarf and whatever else you're getting. Note that this is per month - how many people who frequent this forum buy a McDonald's every weekday for lunch?
Mr. Grey wrote: On the whole topic of "value", I just want to point out that currently Warhammer+ is roughly the cost of a fast food meal, or perhaps even a bit less than that, per month. That seems "worth it" to me for a few hours of animation and battle reports, in addition to all the back issues of White Dwarf and whatever else you're getting. Note that this is per month - how many people who frequent this forum buy a McDonald's every weekday for lunch?
If you aren't going to consume the W+ content, but you are going to consume the Mickey D's, then the burger is worth more to you than the W+ content.
Keep in mind, there's also a cost in "time" in addition to the cost in money. One reason why people may not be interested in the content is because it does not seem compelling enough for them to spend time watching W+ when they could be spending that time doing something else.
That seems to be the general theme with people who aren't buying W+. They aren't all that interested in what is being offered for a variety of reasons, so the price being low isn't as relevant.
I haven't seen the video and have nothing to say about the manicure situation anyways but some painters use their thumbnail as tiny palettes which in turn might lead to more/rough handwashing and that in turn to dry skin. And if somebody paints a lot that might exacerbate the issue. I know of a painter who used acrylics (traditional big paintings) who simply had very dry/rough skin due to the the working conditions. The only solution would have been to give up the job which is usually not a viable solution. Somebody painting minis constantly might have similar symptoms.
Another issue that causes dry skin can be washing hands with warm/hot water. Lukewarm/cold water tends to be better (cold without being freezing cold). So if any of the commenters here have dry skin then it's advisable to not use your nails as mini palettes (so you don't need to scrub the rest off after a painting session) and to try to use cooler water if possible.
Speaking from experience, it tends to take one/two weeks for your skin to adjust to the new status quo and not be as dry/sensitive as before (it depends on how bad it is when you switch). Changing from warm water to colder water really helped me with dry skin (especially in winter when it would occasionally be very sensitive around the nails an even bleed a tiny bit if irritated too much) and it also works for showers and general washing, especially for people who wash more often.
I'm confused by the warhammer+ voucher offer. You have to subscribe by the end of the 31st August, and still have a subscription at the end of the 30th September, having to stay subscribed and not being allowed to cancel it in that time - so you're basically paying for 2 months of Warhammer+, which costs £10, to get a £10 voucher?
Mentlegen324 wrote: I'm confused by the warhammer+ voucher offer. You have to subscribe by the end of the 31st August, and still have a subscription at the end of the 30th September, having to stay subscribed and not being allowed to cancel it in that time - so you're basically paying for 2 months of Warhammer+, which costs £10, to get a £10 voucher?
Yes you pay £10 to get a £10 voucher.
At the same time you access all the Warhammer+ content for that period. So yes its like a free 2 month period.
The idea is to get you to sign up for it and then after two months of content either forget to cancel or decide to continue subscribing. Alongside that you've got the model as well which is only valid for 12 months subscription. Again its a hook designed to help GW retain members and encourage them to sign up long term. Rather than, say, sign up for 1 month, see everything then wait 6 months and sign up again for 1 month and just binge the content in blocks.
Overread wrote: Rather than, say, sign up for 1 month, see everything then wait 6 months and sign up again for 1 month and just binge the content in blocks.
Binging for a month still might not be a bad deal if someone isn't interested in ordering from the GW website or using either of the mini options.
Buying from your FLGS at a discount or from an ebay store is often significantly less expensive than buying from the GW website, so even with the voucher potential there will probably still be plenty of people choosing to binge later on down the line rather than watch now.
Edit: well, cost and availability from GW's website. Often what's sold out there will be available elsewhere on top of costing less.
The voucher also has a pretty limited lifespan (one month was it?), so you can consider it "free access to WH+" if you were planning to purchase something from the GW webstore specifically in October anyway.
All streaming services are poor when they start, they have to build up content. With Warhammer+ there's not much at the moment but it's all GW's own stuff, so it's not like they'll ever have to remove anything. So it'll be loads better in 12 months, even better after 24 months, and so on. Hence the free minis and voucher and everything early on - you need something to kickstart it.
That said, there's a few easy wins, someone mentioned build instructions, but also the 3D painted model photos that are on the store page, then go away when the item comes of the store. They've always been good painting references.
If GW is as evil as some think, the next step would be having an exclusive pre-pre-order window for WH+ subscribers...
My app shows the new episodes but won't play them, just redirects back to the home page. But don't worry because they've got a TOP APP STUDIO working on this.
I enjoyed part 2 of angels of death but I'll probably wait for them to release a few before I watch any more - the bitesize chunks don't do it for me. Much better format for hammer and bolter where they're self contained stories.
AoD ep 2 was a disappointment for me. All in all, I'm not sure GW can keep my interest as a subscriber for long - the influx of new content is way too slow, read & watched everything new already. That amounts to about 0.1 days of content and 6.9 days of waiting for new content, not a very good deal ATM
AoD episode 2 was okay... I like the concept and execution in the story of the GSC taking over all aspects, but combat wise, well... It isn't as good as Astartes, or Sodaz animations in my opinion.
It made the mistake many do, where they show the marines as ultra competent, rather than being an impossible opponent for regular forces who throw the kitchen sink at them and still get butchered.
I did like some of the little details though, such as the amount of data the astartes are provided with through their helmet, and the logistics of space combat. It will probably be thought of more favourably by myself once I have seen all of it, I'm unsure at the moment if the investment is worth my time...
deano2099 wrote: All streaming services are poor when they start, they have to build up content.
While that is true, I don't know that there has yet been a streaming service where you can consume 100% of their new context in a few hours. If you exclude the sloppy seconds like back issues of WD, what is the watch time of all of the new animation added together?
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote: Any news of the animation done by the author of Astartes?
That’s the only thing I’m interested in that will come from this service so far.
I'd be surprised if that is here before 2022.
Fairly disappointing additions to the WH Vault today. There's so much stuff that could be added, and three issues of WD doesn't really cut it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The Genestealers spreading out from that doorway, even on the walls, in the first episode, like waves of cockroaches, was pretty terrifying.
Effective imagery, even if everything is really dark.
I cast it to my big old UHD telly. Oh my….it’s beautiful!
Yeah, the native app for my fire tv stick thing was a really nice surprise. Just need a bit more content really as people keep saying - the fact the rate of new content has actually *slowed down* from week one is disappointing
Definitive version of the bolter sound affects, made more amazing by my sub woofer. Lasguns and the tank cannon was amazing too. The grenades were a disappointment though
Sadly no hammer and bolter or any other animations. Now Suffering from withdrawal. I'll go buy some audio dramas then, I guess
Coenus Scaldingus wrote: The voucher also has a pretty limited lifespan (one month was it?), so you can consider it "free access to WH+" if you were planning to purchase something from the GW webstore specifically in October anyway.
If you plan buying any gw stuff then buying something close to 25e it's baslcally nearly 50% discount.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Aod #2 was nice one. Battle report was fun though just from army lists result was predictable but that's gw games for you especially on lower point values. Gw can keep saying games works for every size but in practice 1500-2500 is most it works at all.
Black armour one was good timing. Soonish painting death company.
The only thing I wasn't as much a fan of with the Angels of Death second episode, and I will freely admit this is something a lot of CGI can suffer from (even some of Blizzards animations at their best and they've always had good CGI animations) is a sense of "gravity" as I'd put it.
That is a sense of impacts hitting; of things having mass and when they collide causing impacts. Everything felt a bit like it was fighting in water or in space. It glides together it doesn't smash together.
I suspect in part its the more limited budget because its something I feel CGI has improved on a lot over the years. But it could also be due to the code/system they've used to build the animation; time constraints or other aspects.
I think the story is moving along well and it makes sense that the first people they encounter aren't equipped to deal with Space Marines. They are bumping into what looks like a fairly well armed, but ultimately just a wandering patrol. Yes that Patrol has some idea of what they are getting themselves into in terms of "its a marine" but not in terms of what they need to bring to the fight.
Which also makes sense. Marines are rare and those Cultists likely have no idea what it needed to actually fight them or how to fight them so they take them on like everything else they have fought thus far. What's going to be more interesting is seeing the escalation of the battle situation.
I dare to ask, but, was Masterclass: How to paint black power armour any good, though?
I remember they promised how to paint great models, but I feel like every single painting YouTube channel and their granny's dog have already made a good tutorial on that specific matter.
What was different beyond being behind a paywall?
Sotahullu wrote: Well I sure hope its fun as I am on the few countries in which its not available.
Overread wrote: The only thing I wasn't as much a fan of with the Angels of Death second episode, and I will freely admit this is something a lot of CGI can suffer from (even some of Blizzards animations at their best and they've always had good CGI animations) is a sense of "gravity" as I'd put it.
That is a sense of impacts hitting; of things having mass and when they collide causing impacts. Everything felt a bit like it was fighting in water or in space. It glides together it doesn't smash together.
I suspect in part its the more limited budget because its something I feel CGI has improved on a lot over the years. But it could also be due to the code/system they've used to build the animation; time constraints or other aspects.
I think the story is moving along well and it makes sense that the first people they encounter aren't equipped to deal with Space Marines. They are bumping into what looks like a fairly well armed, but ultimately just a wandering patrol. Yes that Patrol has some idea of what they are getting themselves into in terms of "its a marine" but not in terms of what they need to bring to the fight.
Which also makes sense. Marines are rare and those Cultists likely have no idea what it needed to actually fight them or how to fight them so they take them on like everything else they have fought thus far. What's going to be more interesting is seeing the escalation of the battle situation.
Weirdly, I’m actually finding the Ship Mistress’s story the most engaging at the moment, maybe because the Marines are doing Marine stuff we’ve seen before (don’t get me wrong, it’s still very well executed)?
Chucking some of the audio dramas on warhammer+ probably wouldn't be the worst idea actually, they're already very cheap if you get them through Audible so it wouldn't cost them too much although I know nothing about any agreements they might have.
The moment I saw the cloaked guy on the docking arm I said "obvious cultist is obvious". I should be an Inquisitor.
Fun stuff so far.
CMLR wrote: I dare to ask, but, was Masterclass: How to paint black power armour any good, though?
I remember they promised how to paint great models, but I feel like every single painting YouTube channel and their granny's dog have already made a good tutorial on that specific matter.
What was different beyond being behind a paywall?
I haven't gotten around to watching it yet, but I don't expect to see anything new. Why would you, anyway. There's only so many ways to use paint and by and large if it can be done, it's been done. GW isn't going to reinvent the wheel. They may slap some skulls on and give it a stupid name, though.
It's a higher level than their usual tutorials, with more steps and more explanation around it. I'd say it was a better standard than most things you'll find on YouTube.
There are your patreon folks who will probably produce higher level stuff, but I wouldn't say that makes this bad.
This early stuff has obviously taken inspiration from Darren Latham's old channel, though slightly simplified compared to that.
I primarily got Warhammer+ for the masterclass stuff and I haven't been disappointed so far, though I am hoping we get to longer videos that take us through the process for whole models once we've gone through some of the concept stuff.
Overread wrote: The only thing I wasn't as much a fan of with the Angels of Death second episode, and I will freely admit this is something a lot of CGI can suffer from (even some of Blizzards animations at their best and they've always had good CGI animations) is a sense of "gravity" as I'd put it.
That is a sense of impacts hitting; of things having mass and when they collide causing impacts. Everything felt a bit like it was fighting in water or in space. It glides together it doesn't smash together.
I suspect in part its the more limited budget because its something I feel CGI has improved on a lot over the years. But it could also be due to the code/system they've used to build the animation; time constraints or other aspects.
I think the story is moving along well and it makes sense that the first people they encounter aren't equipped to deal with Space Marines. They are bumping into what looks like a fairly well armed, but ultimately just a wandering patrol. Yes that Patrol has some idea of what they are getting themselves into in terms of "its a marine" but not in terms of what they need to bring to the fight.
Which also makes sense. Marines are rare and those Cultists likely have no idea what it needed to actually fight them or how to fight them so they take them on like everything else they have fought thus far. What's going to be more interesting is seeing the escalation of the battle situation.
Weirdly, I’m actually finding the Ship Mistress’s story the most engaging at the moment, maybe because the Marines are doing Marine stuff we’ve seen before (don’t get me wrong, it’s still very well executed)?
Agreed! I think its also because the Marines story on the ground hinges heavily on the story the ship goes through - lose the ship and suddenly things get a lot worse for the marines. So its a huge cornerstone of the story
I'm really enjoying the Angels of Death so far, also I quite like the battle reports, not usually a huge fan of watching those, but they have great commentary from the players, and production. Really looking forward to what sort of content we will have a month, or two from now. Very good start.
Have to say. that BA list feels super unfluffy to me. Sang Guard in a 1000pt force? yawn
Also, what's with the Planet Bowling Ball boards? Both of these reports now have a bit of terrain at the table edges and that's about it. I thought we were going to be seeing awesome tables?
tauist wrote: Have to say. that BA list feels super unfluffy to me. Sang Guard in a 1000pt force? yawn
Pretty good approximation of what people showing up for pickup games will experience though. At least half of the time you'll go against someone with an OP crusher list. Just saving everyone time by ending the game at the top of round two!
Also, what's with the Planet Bowling Ball boards? Both of these reports now have a bit of terrain at the table edges and that's about it. I thought we were going to be seeing awesome tables?
GW will probably add more terrain over time. They've got their art team putting it together, and that team did in fact mention that they were not given much time to get everything painted up before the first game happened.
Surely they already have legions of terrain ready to go though?
Is GW really operating on such a shoe string budget that they couldn't organise themselves just a little bit better?
kirotheavenger wrote: Surely they already have legions of terrain ready to go though?
Is GW really operating on such a shoe string budget that they couldn't organise themselves just a little bit better?
And then go on to say that it was 12 days because of the time limit needed to do more boards.
Don’t get me wrong – I would’ve loved to have spent months on the board to create an absolute masterpiece, but then we wouldn’t have had time to make more for the other cool games that feature in Battle Report!
Rather than doing the sensible thing and using the piles of terrain they've got, they did a series of rushjobs to create empty custom boards.
kirotheavenger wrote: Surely they already have legions of terrain ready to go though?
Is GW really operating on such a shoe string budget that they couldn't organise themselves just a little bit better?
As Voss mentioned, this comes right from GW's artists. If they went as far as talking about in an official Warhammer Community article they probably don't like it any more than their customers do.
As for why Games Workshop would choose to do things this way, the only people who really know are the people in charge there. Doubt it's because of budgetary constraints though. If it were, they'd at least be able to make boards on par with what you see on most YouTube batrep channels.
My own opinion is that Games Workshop is being hard carried by their fantastic artists and sculptors creating models that so many people want to buy. GW turns such a high profit on these things that it provides a lot of room for doofuses to skate by until they have to do something customer-facing. Then you get things like artists being given 12 days to produce terrain for what is supposed to be GW's flagship streaming service.
kirotheavenger wrote: Surely they already have legions of terrain ready to go though?
Is GW really operating on such a shoe string budget that they couldn't organise themselves just a little bit better?
It’s a tricky one.
Sure, a custom terrain board is a thing of glory. And if you’ve had the privilege you meander through the WHW Museum, you’ll know they can turn out frankly amazing stuff.
But, they also need to show off achieveable boards. Ones that are more or less off the peg, and don’t require hundreds of pounds of terrain to be bought.
For “random pick up games” as I’d define the first three? Keep it simple. Keep it relatively stock.
For proper narrative event type games? Got a bit more nuts.
Try to strike the balance between inspiring and intimidating.
kirotheavenger wrote: Surely they already have legions of terrain ready to go though?
Is GW really operating on such a shoe string budget that they couldn't organise themselves just a little bit better?
As Voss mentioned, this comes right from GW's artists. If they went as far as talking about in an official Warhammer Community article they probably don't like it any more than their customers do.
As for why Games Workshop would choose to do things this way, the only people who really know are the people in charge there. Doubt it's because of budgetary constraints though. If it were, they'd at least be able to make boards on par with what you see on most YouTube batrep channels.
My own opinion is that Games Workshop is being hard carried by their fantastic artists and sculptors creating models that so many people want to buy. GW turns such a high profit on these things that it provides a lot of room for doofuses to skate by until they have to do something customer-facing. Then you get things like artists being given 12 days to produce terrain for what is supposed to be GW's flagship streaming service.
In the past there have been instances of GW employees not being told information that would have been useful to them because of GW's insane compartmentalization of information. I could see this as another such example where management was fully aware of what they wanted for the service, but the people who have to put it into practice didn't until very late in the process. This is speculation, of course, but it wouldn't surprise me.
In the past there have been instances of GW employees not being told information that would have been useful to them because of GW's insane compartmentalization of information. I could see this as another such example where management was fully aware of what they wanted for the service, but the people who have to put it into practice didn't until very late in the process. This is speculation, of course, but it wouldn't surprise me.
That is very plausible. The artists seemed apologetic about it in the community update. It is what it is. No doubt they'll produce the best terrain they can in the long run.
CMLR wrote: I have the .pdf of their old "How to Make your own Terrain". Not the best scans, but I do miss that kind of reading from them.
When it comes to making your own terrain, there are hundreds of resources out there these days. The Terrain Tutor has a book published, and his Youtube channel has literally hundreds of hours of free tutorials available. Other channels like Geek Gaming Scenics, Black Magic Craft, Eric's Hobby Workshop, Tabletop Lenny, and RP Archive all offer similar videos as well.
I wouldn't mind a GW book on making your own terrain, but there's a lot of knowledge readily available if you're interested in creating your own hobby terrain.
Vorian wrote:This early stuff has obviously taken inspiration from Darren Latham's old channel, though slightly simplified compared to that.
I'd say it's a bit damning that the whole corporate behemoth that is GW only manages to equal his hobby project. They could have offered him some money (and maybe somewhat improved production values or an editor/producer) to make some Darren Latham tutorials for WH+ instead of convincing him (or whatever happened there) to delete his whole channel so that it doesn't compete with (and put to shame) their in-house offerings. At least that's how it looks from the outside :/
Let his youtube channel be, pay him a fee to mirror, integrate, and rebrand all the existing/applicable videos from his channel into WH+, and the pay him a bonus to transition to making new videos for WH+ exclusively (or to make the occasional guest video when he's in the mood as he already has a job at GW). There's no downside (besides some expenses and upfront cost but GW seems to have enough money) to having two/three different painters—maybe even more, or the occasional guest painter—who all make painting videos in different styles and on different topics. It'd be content with a rather fixed cost and at regular intervals.
It could entice people to pay for WH+ who might only be interested in the painting videos and feel the fee's worth it if they get an higher number of videos per week. And watching new releases (or stuff that just got previewed) getting painted in different styles could be interesting, even if it's not the official paint job. Just from that they'd have enough material for a handful of videos per week, plus whatever other topic they want to make painting videos for.
They could make painting videos a whole branch of this offering instead of a random trinket that's thrown in to be a bullet point for the whole.
I don't think it's a case of them not being able to do those things. They obviously have lots of talented folk who could produce lots of high skilled videos.
They are aiming it at results that a moderately good painter like me can achieve if they want to push on a little, not golden daemon standard.
Having a consistent, engaging presenter also seems a reasonable thing to do.
I wouldn't mind more than one video a week, but even after just a couple of years we're going to be at 100 videos. That's going to be a lot of content that'll build up.
kirotheavenger wrote: Surely they already have legions of terrain ready to go though?
Is GW really operating on such a shoe string budget that they couldn't organise themselves just a little bit better?
As Voss mentioned, this comes right from GW's artists. If they went as far as talking about in an official Warhammer Community article they probably don't like it any more than their customers do.
As for why Games Workshop would choose to do things this way, the only people who really know are the people in charge there. Doubt it's because of budgetary constraints though. If it were, they'd at least be able to make boards on par with what you see on most YouTube batrep channels.
My own opinion is that Games Workshop is being hard carried by their fantastic artists and sculptors creating models that so many people want to buy. GW turns such a high profit on these things that it provides a lot of room for doofuses to skate by until they have to do something customer-facing. Then you get things like artists being given 12 days to produce terrain for what is supposed to be GW's flagship streaming service.
In the past there have been instances of GW employees not being told information that would have been useful to them because of GW's insane compartmentalization of information. I could see this as another such example where management was fully aware of what they wanted for the service, but the people who have to put it into practice didn't until very late in the process. This is speculation, of course, but it wouldn't surprise me.
This or it might also be because a lot of the in-person stuff in the UK is really only just sort of getting back together. So it could be that Warhammer+ got a date and they might not have even been sure when they set that if they could do a Battlereport in person at all. So suddenly their BR team ends up with a shorter than ideal window to get ready because the legal/work situation changed enough to allow it.
Then throw a bit of GW's compartmentalising madness in for good measure.
Yea, in the corporate world, very often projects are started by management deciding on an arbitrary launch date and a set of vague goals to achieve, which is then dumped on the designers and engineers with a "just make it happen".
You know instead of doing it the proper way by first formulating a set of tangible objectives, letting the designers and engineers figure out how long they will take to achieve and then set a launch date based on that.
Trust me, I have had a lot of experience of the former, and very little of the latter, unfortunately in my corporate career.
Vorian wrote: I don't think it's a case of them not being able to do those things. They obviously have lots of talented folk who could produce lots of high skilled videos.
They are aiming it at results that a moderately good painter like me can achieve if they want to push on a little, not golden daemon standard.
Having a consistent, engaging presenter also seems a reasonable thing to do.
I wouldn't mind more than one video a week, but even after just a couple of years we're going to be at 100 videos. That's going to be a lot of content that'll build up.
That sounds like a lot of excuses for rushed production (not painters' fault!) and waiting years to get any amount of content. Like, a 100 vids is what you'd probably expect a youtube channel to have after one year, not a corporate product.
Everything about it smells of disposable trend-chasing from the management. Sub services are all the rage, so someone at GW decided they should have one.
Ok... the Battle Report was interesting, and had good production values for a first effort. It was certainly better filmed and far less laborious than most of the efforts on YouTube, but in the end it was a lot of the same part of the table being filmed whilst they rolled dice with smash cuts. Weirdly a lot of rolling dice to silence where the voice over would kick in a good few seconds after the rolling began.
I suspect that this is something where they're finding their feet, and that the format will evolve over time. Hopefully. It is GW after all so who the hell knows...
Overread wrote: The only thing I wasn't as much a fan of with the Angels of Death second episode, and I will freely admit this is something a lot of CGI can suffer from (even some of Blizzards animations at their best and they've always had good CGI animations) is a sense of "gravity" as I'd put it.
This was one of the most glaring things with the Ultramarine movie from a few years back - nothing had any weight to it, and everything seemed frictionless, meaning things collided like they were made of big blocks of expanded polystyrene. There's no heft. Things don't fall or bounce as they should - everything seems to react to things in a uniform manner, which isn't right.
I noticed it in Angels of Death quite a bit. Certainly not to the same degree as Ultramarines (and again, Ultramarines had lots of other issues, like the constant smoke overlay they put over the entire film to hide quality issues... like putting Vaseline on a lens!), but still noticeable. Astartes did not have that problem. Impacts in that short felt right.
Most 3D animation apps don't seem to have a physics engine, therefore no modeling of kinetic energy nor mass, nor effects of gravity.. It's like making puppet shows in 0 G
I'm not too fussy about such things. To me, the story is the most important part.. and AoD so far hasn't been nowhere as near as good of a story as Helsreach was. We have one of the biggest caches of our Chapter's geneseed on board, but lets forget keeping it safe and send everyone down to look for our Captain? Sounds like a half-arsed Star Trek episode, where the plot more or less boils down to "lets get in trouble deliberately and then fix everything at the last minute"..
Well don't forget prior to sending the team down to get the captain, they were convinced that their fleet of ships in orbit was currently safe. They were not aware that multiple ships had been infiltrated and with the Warp Storm all around them they weren't expecting any other fleets to arrive.
Basically they had time and purpose and the ship was pretty much a safe haven.
tauist wrote: What I don't understand is, why cant they just go to Warhammer World after closing time and shoot the reports using those already built resources?
They already used Studio's BA models in this report, so its not like they arent recycling their assets already..
How late whw is open? Maybe working hours of br team would become bit of issue? Doing battle reports isn't super fast. How many would be happy working 9pm?
WHW is a massive open space. There would be echoes galore on the audio, and would likely be harder to light than a dedicated filming space with proper lighting and soundproofing.
Plus, most of the WHW tables are very terrain sparse.
The special ones you can book? Easier to take that into the filming studio than go film in the gaming hall.
They should definitely be splitting the frame in battle report during dice rolls so that they can have the camera on the right part of the table while they're rolling instead of just the section of table adjacent to the dice tray, really would not be much effort to do that.
Maybe I'm old and slow, but the dice rolls are so fast that I find it hard to follow rolls of more than half a dozen dice accurately. Which means most dice rolls, really. Do other people actually have time to crosscheck the relevant board section while they follow the rolling?
It's not so much that as that it's a bit jarring in the first one that it keeps cutting back to the dreadnought/scarab battle royale so we can see them roll dice. I do want to see the dice rolls but I don't need to keep being shown one edge of the playing area so I can see that when it's trivial to just split the frame.
The Batreps look cool, only watched part of 1, but I'm a bit disappointed they either don't have the imagination or the capability to put in animated cut-scenes at dramatic moments, like if a Warlord kills a big beastie in melee just cut to a quick 10 second animation of a character that looks like that miniature swinging its sword and murdering an animated version of whatever it is that its fighting
Seeing animations costs in 4-5 digits per minute either they would be very crappy quality or it would cost ridiculously lot.
And myself less excess stuff the better. On youtube what i hate is when video has often "cool" animation plus sound when things change. With luck it's just turn changing. At worst it's between phases. Dadadaa. Hero phase starts. Dadadaa. Movement phase starts.
I'd prefer to keep it to miniatures and dice. That is after all what it's about. For eye candy I just want to see shots of the actual models at interesting angles with cool terrain in the background.
On that note, the red on Louise's Battlewagon is really cool. I'd take watching action shots of nice models like that over silly little cutscenes every time.
I still think it is worth the money, its $100 AU per year (I pay almost that much for 1 take-away meal for my family), so I paid it and figure I will just wait a few months for content to build up and binge watch it (as said before, the model and 40k app are almost worth it alone, the video content is bonus).
However, I watched the first 2 of the Blood angel show now and I am enjoying it (will now not watch anymore till have a heap built up, the episodes are to short).
The batreps, pass. Are way better channels for that aspect (Miniwargaming, Tabletop Tactics, Mountain Miniature Gaming, Sticking Scorpion 82 etc).
The white dwarfs etc, meh ye is ok good bonus.
I am really waiting for the Lore channel (I love channels like Luiten09 etc), I can't wait for that.
Conclusion after second week:
I totally think is worth it, I figure paying $100 per year for a model, 40k app, AoS app (when improved/developed) and some extras like some 40k animations and a lore channel, whenever it comes. It's no netflix/Stan/Amazon Prime etc or anything like that, but I didn't expect it to be. So big from me.
Have you, by chance, read the infrigment assistant thread? Because yes, they totally have, specifically that one example.
That they did later retire it claiming that it was "an error" is kind of immaterial to the point.
No, it isn't immaterial because someone clearly made a mistake. You're applying malice where none exists.
The GW Infringement Team sent MWM an email clarifying that it was indeed and error.
Have you, by chance, read the infrigment assistant thread? Because yes, they totally have, specifically that one example.
That they did later retire it claiming that it was "an error" is kind of immaterial to the point.
No, it isn't immaterial because someone clearly made a mistake. You're applying malice where none exists.
The GW Infringement Team sent MWM an email clarifying that it was indeed and error.
...or maybe they lied and backtracked on it? We may never know, unless we have a man on the inside.
Have you, by chance, read the infrigment assistant thread? Because yes, they totally have, specifically that one example.
That they did later retire it claiming that it was "an error" is kind of immaterial to the point.
No, it isn't immaterial because someone clearly made a mistake. You're applying malice where none exists.
The GW Infringement Team sent MWM an email clarifying that it was indeed and error.
He isn't "applying malice" to anything. He is pointing to an activity that people claimed would not happen, and did in fact happen.
One mistake means GW is going to destroy every single Warhammer themed YT channel. OK.
As for applying malice, the MWM situation was blown (once again) out of proportion and people are once again blowing the "GW is evil" horn. When the situation was resolved in what seems to be a couple of days, it's a big conspiracy that someone accidently initiated the mass claiming plan too early.
People are so eager to hate the company that they're just making things up to anger themselves further.
GW admitted it was an error and removed the claim. Thats it. There's no grand conspiracy.
Have you, by chance, read the infrigment assistant thread? Because yes, they totally have, specifically that one example.
That they did later retire it claiming that it was "an error" is kind of immaterial to the point.
No, it isn't immaterial because someone clearly made a mistake. You're applying malice where none exists.
The GW Infringement Team sent MWM an email clarifying that it was indeed and error.
Not applying malice: applying fact. They did issue a copyright claim, it was a manually issued one, not an automated "mistake", and they later on retired it.
The fact is that someone was there to issue the copyright claim, and I kind of doubt it was someone not meant to do exactly that.
Otherwise, what do you think happened, here? That some unrelated GW intern happened to be watching the video on a computer that just by sheer luck had YT's copyright infringement claim page open and by some roll of the dice happened to copy the url of the video, paste it on the copyright infringement claim, and send it after writing why they thought it was an actual infringement?
It's not something you do by happenstance. And it's not something you do if don't aim to do it.
Gert wrote: One mistake means GW is going to destroy every single Warhammer themed YT channel. OK.
As for applying malice, the MWM situation was blown (once again) out of proportion and people are once again blowing the "GW is evil" horn. When the situation was resolved in what seems to be a couple of days, it's a big conspiracy that someone accidently initiated the mass claiming plan too early.
People are so eager to hate the company that they're just making things up to anger themselves further.
GW admitted it was an error and removed the claim. Thats it. There's no grand conspiracy.
People aren't claiming any sort of conspiracy. They're pointing to an example of a thing we said would happen and then did happen.
Error or not, it would not have happened unless Games Workshop was undertaking these types of actions. Just like we said they would.
As for "mass claiming," do you think hiring more people on their infringement team means less action will be taken? Or does hiring more people to do stuff mean that more stuff will be done?
Kanluwen wrote: When you're posting things from Arch, you've already missed the point...and confirming a lot of suspicions people might have had about you.
Nice subtle attempt to create a false appearance of consensus there. Yeah I'm sure there's widespread established views that coincide with your own, rather than this just being more of your usual tripe.
Otherwise, what do you think happened, here? That some unrelated GW intern happened to be watching the video on a computer that just by sheer luck had YT's copyright infringement claim page open and by some roll of the dice happened to copy the url of the video, paste it on the copyright infringement claim, and send it after writing why they thought it was an actual infringement?
It's not something you do by happenstance. And it's not something you do if don't aim to do it.
Otherwise, what do you think happened, here? That some unrelated GW intern happened to be watching the video on a computer that just by sheer luck had YT's copyright infringement claim page open and by some roll of the dice happened to copy the url of the video, paste it on the copyright infringement claim, and send it after writing why they thought it was an actual infringement?
It's not something you do by happenstance. And it's not something you do if don't aim to do it.
Albertorius wrote: The fact is that someone was there to issue the copyright claim, and I kind of doubt it was someone not meant to do exactly that.
Ad revenue claim. Different thing.
And just to point out literally anyone, anyone, can make a claim. I could go onto any video around and manually issue a claim. Now GW has said the claim was an error but that doesn't automatically mean it was a GW employee that made it.
Otherwise, what do you think happened, here? That some unrelated GW intern happened to be watching the video on a computer that just by sheer luck had YT's copyright infringement claim page open and by some roll of the dice happened to copy the url of the video, paste it on the copyright infringement claim, and send it after writing why they thought it was an actual infringement?
Yes, because as above, anyone can do it at any time.
It's not something you do by happenstance. And it's not something you do if don't aim to do it.
Or it could be a new untrained employee. When I started working in a bar I accidentally sold a good quality (expensive) gin as the house gin (moderately-priced). Funnily enough, people make mistakes.
Using a single incident as evidence for an "I told you so" is just silly.
@phandaal
Spoiler:
phandaal wrote: People aren't claiming any sort of conspiracy. They're pointing to an example of a thing we said would happen and then did happen.
Ahem.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: ...or maybe they lied and backtracked on it? We may never know, unless we have a man on the inside.
EldarExarch wrote: lolGW already starting to copyright claim Warhammer + reviews (Midwinter Minis, whose review wasn't even negative)
..and they are hiring infringement assistants.
Be careful what you wish for.
But yeah, nobody is making this out to be a bigger deal than it is.
Error or not, it would not have happened unless Games Workshop was undertaking these types of actions. Just like we said they would.
"Look! That one guy just chucked his cake in the bin. All men hate cake!"
As for "mass claiming," do you think hiring more people on their infringement team means less action will be taken? Or does hiring more people to do stuff mean that more stuff will be done?
I would like to think that it will be action against recasters and the such. But obviously one channel get an ad revenue claim that was rescinded like 2 days later means GW is going after all channels right?
Kanluwen wrote: When you're posting things from Arch, you've already missed the point...and confirming a lot of suspicions people might have had about you.
Nice subtle attempt to create a false appearance of consensus there. Yeah I'm sure there's widespread established views that coincide with your own, rather than this just being more of your usual tripe.
It could have been chinese whispers that caused the MWM video to get pinged... I actually very much doubt the GW legal team are sitting there watching the video themselves, someone in the company says they watched the video, it's mentioned they used video footage from hammer and bolter... blah blah blah, it reaches the ears of the legal/infringement team who act without actually watching it... It later causes a stir, the legal people actually watch it and hold their hands up and say it was a mistake.
Mistakes like that do happen at times in a fast paced, fluid environments, the important thing is that the lesson is learnt for next time.
Kanluwen wrote: When you're posting things from Arch, you've already missed the point...and confirming a lot of suspicions people might have had about you.
Albertorius wrote: The fact is that someone was there to issue the copyright claim, and I kind of doubt it was someone not meant to do exactly that.
Ad revenue claim. Different thing.
A "revenue claim" is a copyright claim where you claim the revenue from a video belongs to you instead of the creator. Copyright claim.
And just to point out literally anyone, anyone, can make a claim. I could go onto any video around and manually issue a claim. Now GW has said the claim was an error but that doesn't automatically mean it was a GW employee that made it.
Anyone can, sure. But GW did do it, as confirmed by both parties.
Or it could be a new untrained employee. When I started working in a bar I accidentally sold a good quality (expensive) gin as the house gin (moderately-priced). Funnily enough, people make mistakes.
Using a single incident as evidence for an "I told you so" is just silly.
Trained or untrained doesn't matter much, here. They did issue a copyright claim. If it's an untrained employee, it did it wrongly (or GW claims so), but intently.
It might very well have been an as-of-yet untrained employee, but issuing copyright claims the way they did it is a manual process. I very much doubt that an untrained employee is issuing copyright claims with GW accounts if GW does not have people looking up YT in search of copyright infringements.
Kanluwen wrote: When you're posting things from Arch, you've already missed the point...and confirming a lot of suspicions people might have had about you.
Is this an attempt to cancel me kiddo?
It sounds like an observation, pal. I don't think anyones going to demand that you aren't allowed to present your theories at the local uni or that you should lose your daytime TV show.
Albertorius wrote: Anyone can, sure. But GW did do it, as confirmed by both parties.
Where has GW confirmed it?
Midwinter Minis confirmed that it was a manual copyright claim instead of a bot, that it was GW, and that GW retired the claim and said it was "a mistake".
Also, regarding monetization revenue during a dispute, it seems that YT stores it and after the dispute is resolved it sends it to whomever it belongs, so no "claims make people lose money" unless the claim is legit:
Kanluwen wrote: When you're posting things from Arch, you've already missed the point...and confirming a lot of suspicions people might have had about you.
Nice subtle attempt to create a false appearance of consensus there. Yeah I'm sure there's widespread established views that coincide with your own, rather than this just being more of your usual tripe.
Nah. Arch is scum.
Arch has good reason for his problems with GW. They came for him.
You can cry 'mistake' all you like, GW cancelled a reviewer and it was done manually; because of the backlash it was listed as a 'mistake' and the cancellation undone. Had the backlash not been so severe would that have been so? Error or not we may never know for sure, on their track record GW can be predatory and they can be dishonest. While GW acknowledged this was an overstep it might well have been a step too far to see if they could.
but it was a review and it was subject to an infringement action by Games Workshop. Those are the facts. It should not have happened, but it is dishonest to claim that because the action was allegedly a mistake that no harm was done. Driving over the drink limit, driving over the speed limit, not wearing a condom, not wearing a seatbelt, not securing packages on a fork lift and accidental weapon discharges are all 'mistakes', they are not necessarily consequence free.
I think we need a longer conversation on GW 'errors' GW have made 'mistakes' in the past. Post Chapterhouse a decal making company on Kickstarter had a copyright claim from GW for including on their decal sheet amongst other things the "GW trademark" fleur-de-lys, actively ignoring that they likely know full well it is a medieval French icon and not GW intellectual property. The poor bullied Kickstarter start up modified their fleur-de-lys so they were not 'infringing' until his own backers (including me) informed him that GW had no legal title whatsoever to the imagery at which point he stuck his ground and GW backed down. This was only in 2019 that this happened, long after GW acknowledged that a lot of what they claim as their IP is in actuality not. Was that a 'mistake' on GW's behalf? I strongly argue not, there are a lot of medievalists in GW and the company is not ignorant of medieval culture, the creator of the Kickstarter did not know it was the royal emblem of France and not solely the iconography of the Adepta Sororitas, in a way he was infringing because he was ignorant of its origins, however that does not excuse GW, who should know better, especially as they are making the copyright claim.
And for the record they also complained about his skulls. Yes you heard it right, they were too close to GW skulls, i.e. too close to real skulls. I could accept that if they were the admech skulls, but no, actual skulls. The Kickstart creatior started editing those images too, which upset a lot of backers who asked him to stand his ground.
This is the right time for fanbois supporting GW current string of copyright claims whether they support GW copyright claiming skulls, or fleur-de-lys, and of course whether such claims could possibly be just a mistake.
GW are chancers and they tried to take down a reviewer. I can half believe that some new zampolit on the IP claims department went a step too far, but GW are a big company, and IP is a big stick to wield, it is not too much to ask that it is wielded fairly and with competence, and due to a visible lack of both those provisions in the recent past I see no problem with not pulling our own criticism on GW when they try to censor a product review.
Kanluwen wrote: When you're posting things from Arch, you've already missed the point...and confirming a lot of suspicions people might have had about you.
Nice subtle attempt to create a false appearance of consensus there. Yeah I'm sure there's widespread established views that coincide with your own, rather than this just being more of your usual tripe.
Nah. Arch is scum.
Arch has good reason for his problems with GW. They came for him.
You can cry 'mistake' all you like, GW cancelled a reviewer and it was done manually; because of the backlash it was listed as a 'mistake' and the cancellation undone. Had the backlash not been so severe would that have been so? Error or not we may never know for sure, on their track record GW can be predatory and they can be dishonest. While GW acknowledged this was an overstep it might well have been a step too far to see if they could.
but it was a review and it was subject to an infringement action by Games Workshop. Those are the facts. It should not have happened, but it is dishonest to claim that because the action was allegedly a mistake that no harm was done. Driving over the drink limit, driving over the speed limit, not wearing a condom, not wearing a seatbelt, not securing packages on a fork lift and accidental weapon discharges are all 'mistakes', they are not necessarily consequence free.
I think we need a longer conversation on GW 'errors' GW have made 'mistakes' in the past. Post Chapterhouse a decal making company on Kickstarter had a copyright claim from GW for including on their decal sheet amongst other things the "GW trademark" fleur-de-lys, actively ignoring that they likely know full well it is a medieval French icon and not GW intellectual property. The poor bullied Kickstarter start up modified their fleur-de-lys so they were not 'infringing' until his own backers (including me) informed him that GW had no legal title whatsoever to the imagery at which point he stuck his ground and GW backed down. This was only in 2019 that this happened, long after GW acknowledged that a lot of what they claim as their IP is in actuality not. Was that a 'mistake' on GW's behalf? I strongly argue not, there are a lot of medievalists in GW and the company is not ignorant of medieval culture, the creator of the Kickstarter did not know it was the royal emblem of France and not solely the iconography of the Adepta Sororitas, in a way he was infringing because he was ignorant of its origins, however that does not excuse GW, who should know better, especially as they are making the copyright claim.
And for the record they also complained about his skulls. Yes you heard it right, they were too close to GW skulls, i.e. too close to real skulls. I could accept that if they were the admech skulls, but no, actual skulls. The Kickstart creatior started editing those images too, which upset a lot of backers who asked him to stand his ground.
This is the right time for fanbois supporting GW current string of copyright claims whether they support GW copyright claiming skulls, or fleur-de-lys, and of course whether such claims could possibly be just a mistake.
GW are chancers and they tried to take down a reviewer. I can half believe that some new zampolit on the IP claims department went a step too far, but GW are a big company, and IP is a big stick to wield, it is not too much to ask that it is wielded fairly and with competence, and due to a visible lack of both those provisions in the recent past I see no problem with not pulling our own criticism on GW when they try to censor a product review.
Arch is a borderline neo-nazi, as well as being a massive misogynst as well, the absolute vile tirade he was making about George Floyd and the issues surrounding it caused GW to go for him, because they quite rightly didn't want their content associated with such a person, especially when there is a bit of a vile far-right underbelly within this hobby crowd already and they don't want it encouraged... Not because he reviewed the hobby or talked about the lore, it was his other 'interests' that were the problem. Being a dick has consequences.
Arch is a borderline neo-nazi, as well as being a massive misogynst as well, the absolute vile tirade he was making about George Floyd and the issues surrounding it caused GW to go for him, because they quite rightly didn't want their content associated with such a person, especially when there is a bit of a vile far-right underbelly within this hobby crowd already and they don't want it encouraged... Not because he reviewed the hobby or talked about the law, it was his other 'interests' that were the problem. Being a dick has consequences.
Arch is a borderline neo-nazi, as well as being a massive misogynst as well, the absolute vile tirade he was making about George Floyd and the issues surrounding it caused GW to go for him, because they quite rightly didn't want their content associated with such a person, especially when there is a bit of a vile far-right underbelly within this hobby crowd already and they don't want it encouraged... Not because he reviewed the hobby or talked about the law, it was his other 'interests' that were the problem. Being a dick has consequences.
Holy moly, who is this guy and what has he done to provoke reactions like this one? Did he vow to purge all xenos from earth or something?
Arch is a borderline neo-nazi, as well as being a massive misogynst as well, the absolute vile tirade he was making about George Floyd and the issues surrounding it caused GW to go for him, because they quite rightly didn't want their content associated with such a person, especially when there is a bit of a vile far-right underbelly within this hobby crowd already and they don't want it encouraged... Not because he reviewed the hobby or talked about the law, it was his other 'interests' that were the problem. Being a dick has consequences.
Holy moly, who is this guy and what has he done to provoke reactions like this one? Did he vow to purge all xenos from earth or something?
Nothing. He and Sargon of Akkad rejected the narrative, so that makes them neo-Nazis.
Arch is a borderline neo-nazi, as well as being a massive misogynst as well, the absolute vile tirade he was making about George Floyd and the issues surrounding it caused GW to go for him, because they quite rightly didn't want their content associated with such a person, especially when there is a bit of a vile far-right underbelly within this hobby crowd already and they don't want it encouraged... Not because he reviewed the hobby or talked about the law, it was his other 'interests' that were the problem. Being a dick has consequences.
Holy moly, who is this guy and what has he done to provoke reactions like this one? Did he vow to purge all xenos from earth or something?
Nothing. He and Sargon of Akkad rejected the narrative, so that makes them neo-Nazis.
Arch is a borderline neo-nazi, as well as being a massive misogynst as well, the absolute vile tirade he was making about George Floyd and the issues surrounding it caused GW to go for him, because they quite rightly didn't want their content associated with such a person, especially when there is a bit of a vile far-right underbelly within this hobby crowd already and they don't want it encouraged... Not because he reviewed the hobby or talked about the law, it was his other 'interests' that were the problem. Being a dick has consequences.
Holy moly, who is this guy and what has he done to provoke reactions like this one? Did he vow to purge all xenos from earth or something?
Nothing. He and Sargon of Akkad rejected the narrative, so that makes them neo-Nazis.
In past videos (that were taken down thankfully) he has literally used the 'N' word, he has advocated draconian measures against all people of Islam due to the actions of a minority... These are just some tiny slivers...
Arch is a borderline neo-nazi, as well as being a massive misogynst as well, the absolute vile tirade he was making about George Floyd and the issues surrounding it caused GW to go for him, because they quite rightly didn't want their content associated with such a person, especially when there is a bit of a vile far-right underbelly within this hobby crowd already and they don't want it encouraged... Not because he reviewed the hobby or talked about the law, it was his other 'interests' that were the problem. Being a dick has consequences.
Holy moly, who is this guy and what has he done to provoke reactions like this one? Did he vow to purge all xenos from earth or something?
Nothing. He and Sargon of Akkad rejected the narrative, so that makes them neo-Nazis.
In past videos (that were taken down thankfully) he has literally used the 'N' word, he has advocated draconian measures against all people of Islam due to the actions of a minority... These are just some tiny slivers...
He also claimed that 'we were close to a solution in the 20s and 40s' and that fascism results in utopia.
Scum
This is the right time for fanbois supporting GW current string of copyright claims whether they support GW copyright claiming skulls, or fleur-de-lys, and of course whether such claims could possibly be just a mistake.
GW are chancers and they tried to take down a reviewer. I can half believe that some new zampolit on the IP claims department went a step too far, but GW are a big company, and IP is a big stick to wield, it is not too much to ask that it is wielded fairly and with competence, and due to a visible lack of both those provisions in the recent past I see no problem with not pulling our own criticism on GW when they try to censor a product review.
GW is probably giving directions to their infringement people to claim X, Y, Z types of content as GW property. Maybe the actual lawyers will sort it out later if there's a problem.
Then we get situations like what happened in the past and what happened with MWM's W+ review.
So far this seems to be the only review that got hit.
In fairness to Warhammer +, once the videos are up they stay up. So if they have new content every week as they promise the service may be piss poor now, but could be viable in six or twelve months time.
I can forgive them on this, my main problem with GW on Warhammer + are their methods.
For those tempted by Warhammer +, wait until 2022 before buying in. One of my friends has bought Warhammer +, I was NOT impressed with what I have seen of it, and believe my friend is quickly heading towards buyers remorse.
If you're already paying £2 a month for the 40k app, assuming you actually want the exclusive model, and you use the £10 voucher, Warhammer+ is cheap by anyone's standards, but especially by GW standards. I'm far from a GW apologist but there's little to nothing to be "remorseful" about here
Overread wrote: Well don't forget prior to sending the team down to get the captain, they were convinced that their fleet of ships in orbit was currently safe. They were not aware that multiple ships had been infiltrated and with the Warp Storm all around them they weren't expecting any other fleets to arrive.
Basically they had time and purpose and the ship was pretty much a safe haven.
Still sounds a bit like a noob move to me. I'd expect that at least half of the brothers would have stayed onboard, lest they risk dropping down into an ambush and getting all killed, leaving no one left to guard the precious geneseed. Anyways, let's see how things progress from here
Hmm, whilst lore masters could be promising, again, only 1 animation episode release this week is poor when the whole warhammer+ hype/marketing was mostly about said animations....
I wonder if hammer and bolter will turn up again next week?
I’m disappointed with the lack of painting videos. I am sure when they announced Warhammer+ they had images from masterclass painting videos for Dominion so I am surprised they haven’t been posted as so much time has passed they are becoming less useful. I suppose they may be announced next Sunday so they are released in the period between codex / wave 2 preorders and release.
Also surprised they haven’t done any master classes for the Kill Team launch, seems another wasted opportunity.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: It could have been chinese whispers that caused the MWM video to get pinged... I actually very much doubt the GW legal team are sitting there watching the video themselves, someone in the company says they watched the video, it's mentioned they used video footage from hammer and bolter... blah blah blah, it reaches the ears of the legal/infringement team who act without actually watching it... It later causes a stir, the legal people actually watch it and hold their hands up and say it was a mistake.
Mistakes like that do happen at times in a fast paced, fluid environments, the important thing is that the lesson is learnt for next time.
That's not a mistake, it's a criminal and civil offense. You cannot submit one of these claims without swearing under penalty of perjury that you have a valid basis for it and that you've reviewed the claim to make sure the content really does violate copyright. If this is really how GW is behaving (not saying they are, even I find that hard to believe), that's even worse than anyone imagined, and they ought to face serious legal consequences for it.
Overread wrote: Well don't forget prior to sending the team down to get the captain, they were convinced that their fleet of ships in orbit was currently safe. They were not aware that multiple ships had been infiltrated and with the Warp Storm all around them they weren't expecting any other fleets to arrive.
Basically they had time and purpose and the ship was pretty much a safe haven.
Still sounds a bit like a noob move to me. I'd expect that at least half of the brothers would have stayed onboard, lest they risk dropping down into an ambush and getting all killed, leaving no one left to guard the precious geneseed. Anyways, let's see how things progress from here
In isolation it fits Marine doctrine just fine to strike fast with overwhelming force, and seems in character to me. The thing that may be questionable about it is that they're not striking a predetermined target or rush to reinforce anybody. Their entire predicament is about how they misplaced their captain and locating him takes time and necessarily costs momentum from any rapid assault against a surprise target they're performing, so it may not be the wisest thing to do. And it isn't helped by the fact that half the force took a wrong turn at Albuquerque.
That said, aren't Strike Cruisers like any other Imperial ship of that size in that they need a crew of thousands to operate? You'd expect that to come with a sizable force of capable armsmen. So unless the show doesn't support that idea, I would think there is no factually based security concern and it's only the extreme value of the geneseed that lets the camp voting against the extraction of the captain score some paranoia points. There's no military reason to consider the ship and thus the geneseed in imminent danger with the knowledge the Marines have at the time.
shadowsfm wrote: Didn't the techmarine stay behind on standby in the thunderhawk?
Orlanth wrote: In fairness to Warhammer +, once the videos are up they stay up. So if they have new content every week as they promise the service may be piss poor now, but could be viable in six or twelve months time.
I can forgive them on this, my main problem with GW on Warhammer + are their methods.
For those tempted by Warhammer +, wait until 2022 before buying in. One of my friends has bought Warhammer +, I was NOT impressed with what I have seen of it, and believe my friend is quickly heading towards buyers remorse.
Yeah if they release 1-2 videos a week it might be okay to watch reruns you've already seen .....right?
Orlanth wrote: In fairness to Warhammer +, once the videos are up they stay up. So if they have new content every week as they promise the service may be piss poor now, but could be viable in six or twelve months time.
I can forgive them on this, my main problem with GW on Warhammer + are their methods.
For those tempted by Warhammer +, wait until 2022 before buying in. One of my friends has bought Warhammer +, I was NOT impressed with what I have seen of it, and believe my friend is quickly heading towards buyers remorse.
Yeah if they release 1-2 videos a week it might be okay to watch reruns you've already seen .....right?
That's the point. Similar services don't change content much, but have a lot more to go with. Warhammer + only has GW games. I see value in a long term Netflix subscription, but Warhammer +, buy say one month every year starting with one year from now seems like the sensible buy in, if you want in at all.
I am being very charitable here, that is the only remotely logical buy in I can see, and I will not be getting it. I will not go so far as boycott, though I don't like what GW has done recently, I need go no further than apathy.
On the plus side of not having WH+ on my country, is that I can see all of this develop and, if I decide to jump on it, at least I will have from a good bunch to a ton of content to see.
That being said, I don't think they can mess up Loremasters. They have to be extremely talented to screw it up.
There's a reason they pushed W+ with a "free miniature" that you conveniently have to stay subbed for for a year to get. They know very well they have no basically content at this point, they're hoping people will pay for the first year anyway to get the miniature and by then they'll be used to having the monthly deduction and GW is betting they'll continue it, especially if there's another "free miniature" on offer for another year's worth of subscription fees.
I didn't say it was new, or that I was unaware of it? I'm almost impressed, I don't think I could misread what someone wrote that comprehensively even if I was trying.
We have seen how such subscriptions models turn out with CBS and Star Trek (or D+ and MCU/SW Shows)
the amount of people that want to see it in relase take the full sub and maybe stay after VS the amount of people who wait until it is done take the 1 month, watch all and chancel it
hence why GW added a bonus for going all-in right from the start, to convince those that might have waited until all is released
yukishiro1 wrote: I didn't say it was new, or that I was unaware of it? I'm almost impressed, I don't think I could misread what someone wrote that comprehensively even if I was trying.
You said something that could be construed as a negative opinion on GW. What did you think was going to happen?
kodos wrote: We have seen how such subscriptions models turn out with CBS and Star Trek (or D+ and MCU/SW Shows)
the amount of people that want to see it in relase take the full sub and maybe stay after VS the amount of people who wait until it is done take the 1 month, watch all and chancel it
hence why GW added a bonus for going all-in right from the start, to convince those that might have waited until all is released
For sure, whoever GW has running W+ has to know this. It is a bit strange that they chose such niche models though. Unless they're planning to buff Vindicare assassins through the roof at the end of the year.
It would be really interesting to know the inside story of what W+ was supposed to be from the beginning vs what it is now. At what stage did they decide to add the "free" miniatures? Was this the plan all along, or did they originally plan to launch with a much broader range of content, so that they wouldn't need to throw in the sweetener?
Maybe even more interestingly...they only strong-armed the fan animators into working for them very recently, like only a couple months before the W+ release. W+ itself would have been in the planning stages for far longer than that. Was the original plan to make W+ fully in house, but then when they didn't have enough content themselves, did they decide at the 11th hour to rope in a bunch of fan animations by giving them a "deal" they couldn't refuse? Or was that always the plan? If it was always the plan, it's a pretty ballsy move to leave securing content to the last minute that way - what if the fan animators had simply said "screw you?" Then W+ would be even thinner than it already is.
Yeah they were always intending to have models unique to Warhammer+ as well as freebies/tokens/discounts/special deals and such.
GW know that they'd never have enough media to compete with "actual" video streaming services*. Their whole approach with Warhammer+ was to present a multi-content platform not a single platform.
Free models, vouchers, app access, back access to WD, videos, tutorials, lore videos etc... GW have from the outset always had a lot of these ideas on the table.
The intent is clear and they know that different segments of their market will want different things. So by having a broad appeal they net far more people. It will be interesting to see if, in a years time, the unique models will go on general sale or if GW will slowly build a "library" of models unique to Warhammer+, adding a few each year.
*at least not for a decade or more and even then they'd only have enough for a few weeks of binge watching
It's hard to say, but I tend to agree that at the point at which Warhammer+ entered concrete planning, it was the varied offering we see now instead of a more focused one that got added to later on. While I obviously don't know for lack of insider knowledge, I see the animations as an attempt on GW's part to branch out and leverage their IP more efficiently in order to generate more profits. I don't see them as the origin of the service, since any means of generating the steady income a subscription service promises would have been the initial draw for GW regardless of specifics, but as a way of getting their foot in the door of video entertainment after they're already successfully covering novels, video games and merchandise. It makes no sense to exclude video entertainment using their IP and Warhammer+ happened to be a good vehicle for getting that off the ground.
I will say that it honestly boggles my mind that anyone would think of the miniatures specifically as an added incentive to the actual service or, even worse, as a last minute push to add value to the service. Miniatures are GW's core business. They've been doing limited edition and event miniatures forever. There is no way the miniature as long term subscription incentive was an afterthought at any stage of the process.
yukishiro1 wrote: Maybe even more interestingly...they only strong-armed the fan animators into working for them very recently, like only a couple months before the W+ release. W+ itself would have been in the planning stages for far longer than that. Was the original plan to make W+ fully in house, but then when they didn't have enough content themselves, did they decide at the 11th hour to rope in a bunch of fan animations by giving them a "deal" they couldn't refuse? Or was that always the plan? If it was always the plan, it's a pretty ballsy move to leave securing content to the last minute that way - what if the fan animators had simply said "screw you?" Then W+ would be even thinner than it already is.
So GW is stong-arming them Corleone-style but at the same time the animators are totally able to say "screw-you" and refuse the 'offer', which in turn leaves GW vulnerable? Hate to say it, dude, but you suck at logic.
No, you don't hate to say it, because if you hated to say it, you wouldn't have, since it's such a bad argument to make. You said it because you wanted to say it, even though it's a poor argument.
If someone gives you the choice of going to work for them or losing your current income stream, you *could* potentially say "screw you, I'll find some other way to make money." Is it likely? No. But it's possible.
Obviously there is no such thing as a deal you truly can't refuse. The phrase refers to a deal where the power is stacked against you to the point where you feel pressured into saying yes, not that it is actually impossible to say no.
For example, some of the animators *did* reject GW's deal, and instead closed their patreons. That doesn't mean they weren't strong-armed, it just means it didn't work.
I will say that it honestly boggles my mind that anyone would think of the miniatures specifically as an added incentive to the actual service or, even worse, as a last minute push to add value to the service. Miniatures are GW's core business. They've been doing limited edition and event miniatures forever. There is no way the miniature as long term subscription incentive was an afterthought at any stage of the process.
And yet that is exactly how GW has presented it - as a "free" (their words, not mine) incentive. They have carefully not presented W+ as a miniature subscription service with some bonus animations, it's been presented as a content subscription service with a "free" miniature thrown in if you subscribe for a year.
I tend to agree it was probably their plan to offer that incentive from the very beginning - and it's been very effective, every single person I've seen talking about subscribing has cited it as the reason for their decision (which is itself telling...). But they've made a clear choice not to present this as a miniature subscription service - not least because if they did that, they'd couldn't really structure it as 5 bucks a month where you only get your miniature if you don't cancel before the 12th month.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vovin wrote: Stop defending the indefensible. You were caught red-handed, so own up to it and do better in the future.
Not responding to what someone said but instead just saying "no you're wrong! own up to it!" is not a very effective way to argue. If you want to contest the idea that "come work for us or lose your income stream" is strong-arming, or that it's a deal someone can't refuse, feel free to do that. But your attempt to say "you can't have it both ways" here is wrong because nobody's trying to have it both ways. The phrase "a deal you can't refuse" doesn't mean a deal that's actually impossible to refuse, it just means a deal that you have pressure to accept. In general, linguistic gotchas are a poor way to argue a point, but they're especially poor when they're also wrong.
If you can't support your accusation, to use your words, own up to it and do better in the future.
Well, it's not a miniature subscription service. It is however something they can leverage very easily on top of the bits they are experimenting with.
They want to branch out into animations, but they know those alone wouldn't hold up a subscription service. So they bundle in things that are easy enough for them to do to make the whole thing more desirable.
Its just something the were obviously always going to do.
It's not actually a bundle, though. That's the interesting bit. They've been very careful to structure it in a way that the miniature is a "free bonus" for subscribing for 12 months, not a core part of the service that you build entitlement to over time.
Everybody sees through that as far as it being obvious that the miniature is a core element of what they're pitching to you, but the clever bit is what people don't see through is that by doing it the way they have, GW has essentially converted people from thinking about W+ as a monthly subscription to thinking of it as a yearly subscription. People now go into the decision as "I'm going to stick with this for a year no matter what or else I'll lose the main reason for subscribing," not "I'll subscribe and see if I like it."
yukishiro1 wrote: Not responding to what someone said but instead just saying "no you're wrong! own up to it!" is not a very effective way to argue. If you want to contest the idea that "come work for us or lose your income stream" is strong-arming, or that it's a deal someone can't refuse, feel free to do that. But your attempt to say "you can't have it both ways" here is wrong because nobody's trying to have it both ways. The phrase "a deal you can't refuse" doesn't mean a deal that's actually impossible to refuse, it just means a deal that you have pressure to accept. In general, linguistic gotchas are a poor way to argue a point, but they're especially poor when they're also wrong.
If you can't support your accusation, to use your words, own up to it and do better in the future.
Nah. I have confidence that my initial post stands for itself. I wouldn't be able to convince the drama queen faction anyway, but other forum-goer can have a chuckle. PS: no need to defend the 'can't refuse' phrase, nothing on my post hinges on this wording, I haven't even quoted it directly.
I don't have much hopes for the Loremasters tbh. GW's MO is usually very shallow in this sort of things..
Was surprised to see more this year's White Dwarf's! By this rate, they will have all but caught up with the mag. Maybe that's when they start releasing the backlog.
yukishiro1 wrote: Maybe even more interestingly...they only strong-armed the fan animators into working for them very recently, like only a couple months before the W+ release. W+ itself would have been in the planning stages for far longer than that. Was the original plan to make W+ fully in house, but then when they didn't have enough content themselves, did they decide at the 11th hour to rope in a bunch of fan animations by giving them a "deal" they couldn't refuse? Or was that always the plan? If it was always the plan, it's a pretty ballsy move to leave securing content to the last minute that way - what if the fan animators had simply said "screw you?" Then W+ would be even thinner than it already is.
So GW is stong-arming them Corleone-style but at the same time the animators are totally able to say "screw-you" and refuse the 'offer', which in turn leaves GW vulnerable? Hate to say it, dude, but you suck at logic.
Oh, hey, the crunch culture excuse, but with IP strikes! Fun times.
I think he's trying to argue that it couldn't be the case that fan animators were both strong-armed into working for GW and that some or all could have nevertheless refused to be strong-armed, and I was therefore contradicting myself. In other words, the implication seems to be that because some but not all fan animators accepted the "deal", that is is evidence it wasn't strong-arming.
It doesn't seem like a very good gotcha to me, much less an actual attempt at a serious argument...but meh, it's the internet.
I will say that it honestly boggles my mind that anyone would think of the miniatures specifically as an added incentive to the actual service or, even worse, as a last minute push to add value to the service. Miniatures are GW's core business. They've been doing limited edition and event miniatures forever. There is no way the miniature as long term subscription incentive was an afterthought at any stage of the process.
And yet that is exactly how GW has presented it - as a "free" (their words, not mine) incentive. They have carefully not presented W+ as a miniature subscription service with some bonus animations, it's been presented as a content subscription service with a "free" miniature thrown in if you subscribe for a year.
I tend to agree it was probably their plan to offer that incentive from the very beginning - and it's been very effective, every single person I've seen talking about subscribing has cited it as the reason for their decision (which is itself telling...). But they've made a clear choice not to present this as a miniature subscription service - not least because if they did that, they'd couldn't really structure it as 5 bucks a month where you only get your miniature if you don't cancel before the 12th month.
They would present it as free. Or "free", as you accurately say. But really, provided they want the service and incentives to be what they are, what choice do they have? Warhammer+ is not a miniature subscription service because you can subscribe for a time shorter than necessary (that is up to eleven months) to get a miniature. You're paying for everything except the miniature (and other promotional items like that voucher) regardless of the duration of your subscription, but are only eligible for the miniature after twelve months. You can't opt out of the model and pay less. You're not asked to pay extra for the miniature over your standard subscription rate. In addition, you get one of the two miniatures without additional cost but are only eligible to purchase the second one, so for that one there is a cost.
GW chose this approach, of course, but once we acknowledge that as the baseline from which the service has to be approached and made to work, how could they not market that one miniature as free?
yukishiro1 wrote: It's not actually a bundle, though. That's the interesting bit. They've been very careful to structure it in a way that the miniature is a "free bonus" for subscribing for 12 months, not a core part of the service that you build entitlement to over time.
Everybody sees through that as far as it being obvious that the miniature is a core element of what they're pitching to you, but the clever bit is what people don't see through is that by doing it the way they have, GW has essentially converted people from thinking about W+ as a monthly subscription to thinking of it as a yearly subscription. People now go into the decision as "I'm going to stick with this for a year no matter what or else I'll lose the main reason for subscribing," not "I'll subscribe and see if I like it."
It's really a very clever marketing trick.
Yeah, it probably works effectively. How hard can it be to see through it, though? You get a shiny limited edition model if you stay subscribed for a year. You get a yearly subscription for less than twelve monthly subscriptions. They add the 40k and AoS apps as part of the service, which realistically aren't of use to the average player unless they are permanently subscribed to. GW pretty overtly tells us that they want subscribers to stay committed without interruption.
At least 40k app doesn't have huge value with subscribtion. 8e codexes nice but benefit keeps shrinking. Codexes don't need sub. The army builder and partial datasheets(lacking rules for special rules) and that's it.
The WH40k app is still shockingly poor. What is even more mind boggling is the completely broken state it was initially released in. And they charged money for it!
Gregor Samsa wrote: The WH40k app is still shockingly poor. What is even more mind boggling is the completely broken state it was initially released in. And they charged money for it!
Looks at Finecast
I dunno about you, but that sounds completely par the course for GW to me.
As I understand it, there is a new app now for list building that is a part of the Warhammer+ Sub? Does anyone know if you're forced to sub to get that app, or if it will be available separately?
phandaal wrote: Not sure about an official app, but if all you're looking for is a list builder, Battle Scribe works great.
Thanks, but I've had horrendous problems with that software, from points or upgrades being wrong to near constant crashes on my phone. I was hoping for an official product like the previous app I was using.
Togusa wrote: As I understand it, there is a new app now for list building that is a part of the Warhammer+ Sub? Does anyone know if you're forced to sub to get that app, or if it will be available separately?
Thanks, but I've had horrendous problems with that software, from points or upgrades being wrong to near constant crashes on my phone. I was hoping for an official product like the previous app I was using.
There's no new app with Warhammer+. It's Warhammer40k the app, the same badly designed app that's been out for months. But hey.. it's official!
Automatically Appended Next Post: They're also revising the AoS app, but that hasn't been updated yet.
Official does have benefit in that every user can't modify data at will.
If I go to game with BS list with printed sheet there's no quarantee whatsoever it's actually correct points or correct rules. Because I myself can easily change the BS data. It's kid's play.
Surprising with all the misguided tsport attempts for GW games tournaments still accept BS being used seeing how easy it is to cheat with it.
It's not a surprise Battlescribe is used so often in tournaments when considering the alternatives.
Also, because the data can be modified relatively easily does not mean that it's become some sort of problem in tournaments. I've never even heard of this type of 'issue' before.
I'd trust a printed Battlescribe list more than a hand-written one.
tneva82 wrote: Official does have benefit in that every user can't modify data at will.
If I go to game with BS list with printed sheet there's no quarantee whatsoever it's actually correct points or correct rules. Because I myself can easily change the BS data. It's kid's play.
well, there is also no guarantee that the that what you get out of the official App is right
someone comes with the printed pages from the App, one with pages from Battlescribe, and one with Codex+Errata and you get 3 different versions of the same rules
Now the App one must the be right because it is the official App with the latest rules, yet we have seen that this is not the case so for now the official App has no advantage over BS because both can be wrong
tneva82 wrote: Official does have benefit in that every user can't modify data at will.
If I go to game with BS list with printed sheet there's no quarantee whatsoever it's actually correct points or correct rules. Because I myself can easily change the BS data. It's kid's play.
well, there is also no guarantee that the that what you get out of the official App is right
someone comes with the printed pages from the App, one with pages from Battlescribe, and one with Codex+Errata and you get 3 different versions of the same rules
Now the App one must the be right because it is the official App with the latest rules, yet we have seen that this is not the case so for now the official App has no advantage over BS because both can be wrong
Difference is the ones in BS are basically what the player claims are. At least with official app error is on GW's side. Not because the player in question decided himself so.
Both can be wrong. BS can be manipulated at will. It's got zero security. I can give myself assault 10 lasguns if I so wish. I can't do that with official app though(at least my skill level falls short at that. BS it's child's play. Whole point of BS is that it's easy to do the data...It's SUPPOSED to be editable.)
Togusa wrote: As I understand it, there is a new app now for list building that is a part of the Warhammer+ Sub? Does anyone know if you're forced to sub to get that app, or if it will be available separately?
Thanks, but I've had horrendous problems with that software, from points or upgrades being wrong to near constant crashes on my phone. I was hoping for an official product like the previous app I was using.
There's no new app with Warhammer+. It's Warhammer40k the app, the same badly designed app that's been out for months. But hey.. it's official!
Automatically Appended Next Post: They're also revising the AoS app, but that hasn't been updated yet.
That app isn't changing? That's the one I currently use and have very, very few issues with.
Difference is the ones in BS are basically what the player claims are. At least with official app error is on GW's side. Not because the player in question decided himself so.
Both can be wrong. BS can be manipulated at will. It's got zero security. I can give myself assault 10 lasguns if I so wish. I can't do that with official app though(at least my skill level falls short at that. BS it's child's play. Whole point of BS is that it's easy to do the data...It's SUPPOSED to be editable.)
the point is very simple, no matter what App you are going to use, you need the physical books+errata to use them, just the App or a printout of the App is not enough, neither for the official one nor for BS
and as soon as I need to have the books anyway to avoid any errors (intended or by mistake) in the list or rules, there is no real point to pay for the official one if the free one is doing the same job
and for an argument on the table it does not matter if it was intended or not, someone claiming that the rules are what is in the App and does not have the book to proof it, your possibilities are limited unless someone else has the book+errata
Togusa wrote: That app isn't changing? That's the one I currently use and have very, very few issues with.
Alas yea. The old one was pretty good and odds are new one won't be as good but from logistic POV guess it makes sense to not have to upkeep 2 different app's. 1 app with 2 skins and 2 data sets is lot easier.
Just hope GW is being generous enough to keep free warscrolls like old app and doesn't go for 40k style in that too.
Togusa wrote: That app isn't changing? That's the one I currently use and have very, very few issues with.
Alas yea. The old one was pretty good and odds are new one won't be as good but from logistic POV guess it makes sense to not have to upkeep 2 different app's. 1 app with 2 skins and 2 data sets is lot easier.
Just hope GW is being generous enough to keep free warscrolls like old app and doesn't go for 40k style in that too.
I guess I am confused.
Currently I use two apps for my games, the AoS app that I've had for a year or so, and the newest 40K app that has a monthly fee. I've heard there is supposedly now going to be two "new" and different apps, and was told that to get access to them you need to be a W+ subscriber. I don't have any interest in anything W+ has to offer, so I am trying to figure out if I should just stick with the two apps I'm using now (Assuming they don't go away) or switch back to doing everything on paper and by hand.
Currently I use two apps for my games, the AoS app that I've had for a year or so, and the newest 40K app that has a monthly fee. I've heard there is supposedly now going to be two "new" and different apps, and was told that to get access to them you need to be a W+ subscriber. I don't have any interest in anything W+ has to offer, so I am trying to figure out if I should just stick with the two apps I'm using now (Assuming they don't go away) or switch back to doing everything on paper and by hand.
The 40k App stays as it is
The AoS App you have is going away and replaced by a new App (like the 40k App)
Overall I rather like the 40k app right now. It’s not perfect by any stretch, but its quite useable. My main complaint being a complete lack of Crusade support, offering none of the rules for it nor an option to build lists with Power instead of Points.
And yes, I had someone cheat in tournaments back in the day altering his Army Builder stuff so it would show transports having a point cost but then not including them in the final army value so he was actually a couple hundred points over.
Togusa wrote: That app isn't changing? That's the one I currently use and have very, very few issues with.
Alas yea. The old one was pretty good and odds are new one won't be as good but from logistic POV guess it makes sense to not have to upkeep 2 different app's. 1 app with 2 skins and 2 data sets is lot easier.
Just hope GW is being generous enough to keep free warscrolls like old app and doesn't go for 40k style in that too.
I guess I am confused.
Currently I use two apps for my games, the AoS app that I've had for a year or so, and the newest 40K app that has a monthly fee. I've heard there is supposedly now going to be two "new" and different apps, and was told that to get access to them you need to be a W+ subscriber. I don't have any interest in anything W+ has to offer, so I am trying to figure out if I should just stick with the two apps I'm using now (Assuming they don't go away) or switch back to doing everything on paper and by hand.
The old app will remain usable for now but unsupported so no new units etc. Guess this is mainly so people can keep using the ebooks they already bought. I would expect it to go away later when new battletomes have come out.
40k app won't go away but if you are W+ subscriber you get app subscription as standard, no need to pay for 40k app separately(you can do that of course if you don't want W+) if you want the army builder + few other perks.
AOS app will likely be same as 40k app. And as with 40k app you don't NEED subscription though no army builder and other perks and quite possibly warscrolls only for battle tomes you have bought like in 40k. Though with luck GW treats AOS differently and maintains free warscrolls in that app.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AduroT wrote: Overall I rather like the 40k app right now. It’s not perfect by any stretch, but its quite useable. My main complaint being a complete lack of Crusade support, offering none of the rules for it nor an option to build lists with Power instead of Points.
It's passable enough. One thing I would like though is rules by FACTION rather than by book. Annoying if you have supplements and we know how much GW loves it's supplements...
Also on my phone there's weird problem with army builder where trying to write name of army list is...hard. Text keeps dissapearing. Could be some weird interaction with my simeji keyboard I use since I need japanese keyboard as well as english. Maybe others dont' have same issue(likely doesn't. One would assume that is sort of bug I would have seen mentioned before if it was common)
Don’t have a problem writing the names of armies, just doing English, but not being able to change the name of an army is one of my annoyances with the app.
Oh I'm writing it in english as well. Just thinking it might be some weird interaction with my english/japanese ime software I use because I very much doubt it's common issue.
The battlescribe alteration conversation is quite funny. Anyone trying that at a tournament runs a massive risk of being caught red handed, as they would have created printed/electronic proof they were cheating.
It would be very easy to prove the cheater had edited stats.
Also, you generally have to upload the composition/points of your list into BCP a week before the tournament and you then run the risk of someone spotting you cheating for the week leading up to the tournament, on the day or for a week afterwards. The better you place in the tournament the more scrutiny your list receieves afterwards as people who play your faction will want to see "what is doing well" in their faction.
EightFoldPath wrote: The battlescribe alteration conversation is quite funny. Anyone trying that at a tournament runs a massive risk of being caught red handed, as they would have created printed/electronic proof they were cheating.
It would be very easy to prove the cheater had edited stats.
Also, you generally have to upload the composition/points of your list into BCP a week before the tournament and you then run the risk of someone spotting you cheating for the week leading up to the tournament, on the day or for a week afterwards. The better you place in the tournament the more scrutiny your list receieves afterwards as people who play your faction will want to see "what is doing well" in their faction.
It's also a non sequitur, because a person cheating at a tournament has no bearing on whether or not the app works well for individuals to create their own lists. Not like you have to run your list by TJ Lanigan to make sure there's enough cheating before you use it or something.
On that topic: never run into incorrect points on Battlescribe myself. Did find a loophole where it let me put Azrael and an unnamed Chapter Master in the same list without throwing an error though.
I'm a fan of the app in regards to functionality with list building, but I find it annoying that I still have to double check the points due to it not being correct in many instances (really bad with my Deathwatch which is now a year old codex). It doesn't matter too much in friendly play (if points are a few lower or over) but would be an issue at a tournament.
17 minutes. The video is not that different from other lore videos. Obvious there are no speculative elements, wild theories, etc, just a summary of the established fluff, including HH spoilers. So no surprises for anyone who is in the hobby for some time. The production value is very high, though. The use of the official artwork really elates the whole experience. And if you are a veteran, some sections give you a warm a nostalgic feeling. The approriate use of the Battlefleet Gothic cover brought me right back to the 90s.
Unlike the battle reports the first lore master video beats the Youtube competition in my opinion.
The third Blood Angel video is good, too, but I would prefer to see more Hammer & Bolter.
Vovin wrote: 17 minutes. The video is not that different from other lore videos. Obvious there are no speculative elements, wild theories, etc, just a summary of the established fluff, including HH spoilers. So no surprises for anyone who is in the hobby for some time. The production value is very high, though. The use of the official artwork really elates the whole experience. And if you are a veteran, some sections give you a warm a nostalgic feeling. The approriate use of the Battlefleet Gothic cover brought me right back to the 90s.
Unlike the battle reports the first lore master video beats the Youtube competition in my opinion.
The third Blood Angel video is good, too, but I would prefer to see more Hammer & Bolter.
I must admit I am a quite a bit disappointed - I had actually hoped this would be more of a 'history of the lore' - with interviews about how Abaddon came into being as a character and his interpretations or recreations over the years - basically a documentary series a specific bits of the lore. Wade is an excellent interviewer and this seems like a mistake for him not to interview writers over the years about this (imagine if ADB spoke about reinterpreting Abaddon, Dan Abnett on 'creating' the heresy character, Gav and Andy Chambers and Rick Priestly on 2nd edition; Andy C on BFG; Phil Kelly and his colleagues on the Gathering Storm/Fall of Cadia decisions; Blanche, Mark Gibbons, etc), as well as showing archives of unpublished elements (imagine the sketches for and any alternate designs of his new mini!). Of course that's higher cost (some guests might need to be paid to appear), but it could have been a really unique thing that only GW could do.
Overall, I like it (Wade is great, and the art - oh the art!*), but I had hoped for something utterly different that built on Wade's podcasting - with its reflexive focus on how the things we love came into being - and GW's potential to build on that visually from a 'how is lore made' perspective; this could even have been interspersed with this 'lore video' bit.
* Again on the art, I feel each should have its artist identified! I always get annoyed by how GW does not generally name artists....
-
Also I fully agree on more H&B - so far, it's been the highlight of W+ for me (I had hoped it would be Loremasters, but alas....).
Vovin wrote: I would prefer to see more Hammer & Bolter.
They're showing an advance episode at Gencon next week so I expect it'll be on WH+ the week after.
That's great. I can't wait. Thanks.
@PetitionersCity: sounds fantastic. I hope they will add something like that in the future. I loved the interviews with Jes Goodwin. He is such an inspiration.
It's good, yes, but honestly the content put every week is lacking so far. 2 videos this wednesday and no battle report...weak, especially in comparison to youtube channels.
If they keep this pace after one year, I don't think I'll keep my subscription.
Sarouan wrote: It's good, yes, but honestly the content put every week is lacking so far. 2 videos this wednesday and no battle report...weak, especially in comparison to youtube channels.
If they keep this pace after one year, I don't think I'll keep my subscription.
If the next limited mini is a Callidus, I might have to think twice about that.
Just to point out, the team who is putting stuff together might still be doing restricted hours. They might only get one BatRep every couple of weeks because GW can't afford to have the whole presenting team isolating if one catches Covid.
As for Lore Masters, Wade got out of hospital from a second collapsed lung about 2 weeks ago. If that's not cause for a phased return to work I don't know what is.
I would also argue a lot of it is fairly new territory. GW has done introductory BatReps before but it's not really the same thing. Painting videos are all well and good but it takes skill and charisma to present something that lasts longer than a couple of minutes. For example, Hang out and Hobby went from 3/4 presenters nearly every night to 2 for what I suspect is a problem of both burnout and what I just mentioned.
For the battle reports, they said each takes 2 days to film and "almost double the time" to edit. So we shouldn't expect more than 1 per week, and if there is a snag somewhere (they mentioned corrupted files and re-shooting) they might skip a week.
Gert wrote: Just to point out, the team who is putting stuff together might still be doing restricted hours. They might only get one BatRep every couple of weeks because GW can't afford to have the whole presenting team isolating if one catches Covid.
As for Lore Masters, Wade got out of hospital from a second collapsed lung about 2 weeks ago. If that's not cause for a phased return to work I don't know what is.
I would also argue a lot of it is fairly new territory. GW has done introductory BatReps before but it's not really the same thing. Painting videos are all well and good but it takes skill and charisma to present something that lasts longer than a couple of minutes. For example, Hang out and Hobby went from 3/4 presenters nearly every night to 2 for what I suspect is a problem of both burnout and what I just mentioned.
This. All about us providing constructive feedback too.
Sounds like my fears over the lore videos may have been proven correct. They're a bit of a weird beast because anyone really interested in the lore likely already knows the basic facts of most elements of it. So just regurgitating the current lore on Abaddon, or Tau, or whatever isn't really that appealing.
What I'd love to see is much more along the lines mentioned by an earlier poster where they delve into the creation of the lore, the reasons why a character or race were created, the rejected ideas, the process of refining that part of the background etc. Someone explaining what is already really easy to find elsewhere doesn't represent great value for money to me.
Based on the quality of content and cost I'm definitely going to keep the subscription indefinitely. Going all-in for 12 months was $65.51 means my monthly cost is 5.45 - including taxes.
Where I live a Big Mac is $6.39. So I'd just have to skip eating a Big Mac once a month.
If you cut the cost of the model off the subscription (Megaboss- $40) then really I paid 65.51-40= 25.51 for the subscription. That comes out to $2.12 a month for the content. For just the old White Dwarfs and old Lore for me, that is good enough for the cost.
Is nobody else a bit miffed at having paid out for physical copies of White Dwarf which they would now has access to for free? Does this just mean I should stop paying out for the mag cos it will soon be on here for free?
To be fair it's not that great a magazine days anyway, but I guess that's another thread....
It depends with regard to WD.
Eventually, we'll likely see some proper old stuff but that will likely take time, digitising physical documents isn't exactly a simple task.
As for more "recent" issues, if you have them all then not really but it's very easy to miss an issue or have to chuck it for space. I recently had to bin a huge chunk of my WD's because I just didn't have the space anymore.
I honestly find it a smidge worrying that your go to comparison is junk food.
You understand that the point of the comparison, in all likelihood, is to highlight it versus something many people consider a "small expense", correct?
100%, McDonald's is junk food. It's also cheaper food in many instances. There's a reason why they have stayed in business as long as they have.
Lord Kragan wrote: I honestly find it a smidge worrying that your go to comparison is junk food.
Usually, people would say "for the price of a cinema ticket" but considering how expensive cinemas actually are in many places it's not a great comparison. Fast food is cheap everywhere and is a better universal comparison.
Axlbush wrote: Is nobody else a bit miffed at having paid out for physical copies of White Dwarf which they would now has access to for free? Does this just mean I should stop paying out for the mag cos it will soon be on here for free?
To be fair it's not that great a magazine days anyway, but I guess that's another thread....
Same could be said for those who bought the Warhammer Vision magazines or the campaign books.
There's always someone who didn't, though, and for him it's great.
As for the Warhammer + content...yes, I understand, there may be explanations and such, but there is a way to increase the number of videos : increase the size of the team working on videos (assuming their job is solely working on videos).
So far, I'm really underwhelmed about the number of videos put online per week. Not to say a lot of those videos can be done in advance (they're not especially talking about "hot news" here - the Loremaster about Abaddon is litterally intemporal), and animations can certainly be produced the same way.
If they can't put more than that, it's more saying about a lack of preparation than anything else.
That said, yes, the price paid with the free miniature / access to various stuff / having a voucher worth 2 months makes it good. But talking more about spending actual time watching / listening to videos or going on Warhammer Vault ? It's really a matter of a few days (including Warhammer Vault : if it's just the videos, it's more talking about a single afternoon).
Sarouan wrote: As for the Warhammer + content...yes, I understand, there may be explanations and such, but there is a way to increase the number of videos : increase the size of the team working on videos (assuming their job is solely working on videos).
Hiring people can take months. The applications for the Warhammer TV Presenter went up in like May and we only saw the new guy in August.
So far, I'm really underwhelmed about the number of videos put online per week. Not to say a lot of those videos can be done in advance (they're not especially talking about "hot news" here - the Loremaster about Abaddon is litterally intemporal), and animations can certainly be produced the same way.
If they can't put more than that, it's more saying about a lack of preparation than anything else.
You do understand that England only had all of its imposed restrictions removed in June.
If you can't go into a studio you can't really record videos, can you? And again, Wade was literally in hospital with a second collapsed lung. Hard to do a lore video when you can't breathe.
You do understand that England only had all of its imposed restrictions removed in June.
If you can't go into a studio you can't really record videos, can you? And again, Wade was literally in hospital with a second collapsed lung. Hard to do a lore video when you can't breathe.
It's not about Wade. I'm fine having Loremaster series later.
It's about the rest. If Wade is unavailable, well grab a few others guys to play the battle reports and have the guys working on editing videos solely on that. Have a guest. Do something else, like a podcast. Make previews. Or reviews. I don't know, stuff worth paying for.
It's not like their twitch channel doesn't exist and is able to put videos three days in a row per week, is it.
They should be releasing more than 2 or 3 videos a week. That's not enough for a service that likes to brag about "tons of content" in their Warhammer Community website when they talk about it.
As for Warhammer Vault...I dunno, put some old White Dwarf or the army books / core rules from Warhammer Fantasy Battle V8. Ah yes I guess it would be competition for their Old World project, I forgot.
Lord Kragan wrote: I honestly find it a smidge worrying that your go to comparison is junk food.
Usually, people would say "for the price of a cinema ticket" but considering how expensive cinemas actually are in many places it's not a great comparison. Fast food is cheap everywhere and is a better universal comparison.
Gert wrote: You do understand that England only had all of its imposed restrictions removed in June.
If you can't go into a studio you can't really record videos, can you?
Very misleading statement. Unless you are talking about June 2020...
Gert wrote:Just to point out, the team who is putting stuff together might still be doing restricted hours. They might only get one BatRep every couple of weeks because GW can't afford to have the whole presenting team isolating if one catches Covid.
As for Lore Masters, Wade got out of hospital from a second collapsed lung about 2 weeks ago. If that's not cause for a phased return to work I don't know what is.
I would also argue a lot of it is fairly new territory. GW has done introductory BatReps before but it's not really the same thing. Painting videos are all well and good but it takes skill and charisma to present something that lasts longer than a couple of minutes. For example, Hang out and Hobby went from 3/4 presenters nearly every night to 2 for what I suspect is a problem of both burnout and what I just mentioned.
They have the financial power to easily work around that type of issues (without it even being a significant dent in revenue/profits for all the in-house stuff), to be able to hire people if needed, and to prepare more before starting such a service. They should be able to take this at least as serious as some random, somewhat successful, youtubers do. People who consistently put out videos even during the pandemic. Modern video production is not new territory and GW simply has the money to pay for that (or for consultants to help them set things up). This is not 2008 (or even 2010) when youtube actually was fairly new territory or when digital cameras (and studio lighting) were prohibitively expensive for people wanting to try this.
They are not a random kid making their first youtube videos with their iPhone. They have the means to take this seriously and do better. They should be able to get somebody else to cover for somebody who's sick instead of the whole project coming to a halt or slowing down. They should be able to hire more people to produce more/different content in parallel and have a backlog of videos to post. At 350 mil in revenue that type of issues shouldn't be a (big) hurdle if you want to start a serious paid video service.
One issue is that GW might be eating a LOT in increased shipping costs to keep their company working right now. The cost of containers has shot up and some are almost being auctioned off they are getting so hard to find. With GW needing regular deliveries from overseas production (boxes etc...) then they like as not might be spending more of their money there on the core than considering hiring several new presenters for their Warhammer+ system.
In the end Warhammer+ is just one of many projects they have and isn't the most major. Yes its a big thing, but its not their core business nor income.
Also don't forget GW doesn't take on debt to expand, they might well be sitting on a lot of that extra profit with the thought of riding out the current boom in sales and seeing if it lasts medium to long term - enough that they might have to consider further expansion. That being the case having a nice bundle of cash ready to invest is better than having blown it on a video service
His whole point was that doing a proper video service properly should and demonstrably does cost peanuts, ie one quarter of a fraction of a percentage of their net profits for last week.
JWBS wrote: His whole point was that doing a proper video service properly should and demonstrably does cost peanuts, ie one quarter of a fraction of a percentage of their net profits for last week.
Yeah but it might reduce their weekly net profits for one quarter of a percentage! Think of what the shareholders would say! Oh, the humanity!
JWBS wrote: His whole point was that doing a proper video service properly should and demonstrably does cost peanuts, ie one quarter of a fraction of a percentage of their net profits for last week.
When you try to pretend like a Youtuber/streamer is the same thing as a "proper video service", you've already played yourself.
Overread wrote: One issue is that GW might be eating a LOT in increased shipping costs to keep their company working right now. The cost of containers has shot up and some are almost being auctioned off they are getting so hard to find. With GW needing regular deliveries from overseas production (boxes etc...) then they like as not might be spending more of their money there on the core than considering hiring several new presenters for their Warhammer+ system.
In the end Warhammer+ is just one of many projects they have and isn't the most major. Yes its a big thing, but its not their core business nor income.
Also don't forget GW doesn't take on debt to expand, they might well be sitting on a lot of that extra profit with the thought of riding out the current boom in sales and seeing if it lasts medium to long term - enough that they might have to consider further expansion. That being the case having a nice bundle of cash ready to invest is better than having blown it on a video service
This is a pretty big deal. Now, my personal expectation is that GW is going to pass on those extra costs to the customers. In fact, we might have already seen that in the form of the increased price to get into Kill Team, for example. Two flimsier books for 50 dollars each is a huge jump over the one book that was 40 dollars, but hey, if you consider inflation and the global economy at the moment, it might make a tiny bit more sense.
The big thing for Warhammer+ is if they can actually keep up even this "slow" pace for a full year. We got people saying that it's 'not enough', but honestly when you're getting into content creation, a year's worth of stuff is a huge undertaking. Let's say they "only" manage to put together 1 bat rep, animation, and painting video every 2 weeks. That's 3 videos every 2 weeks, right? That's 78 videos by the end of the year, and it's not considering any extra things like loremasters or whatever else they might pull out of their butts. If they can make it past the first year and have 78-ish videos out, then these conversations of it all seeming 'not worth it' or 'slow' will look pedantic at best, and it'll be a no-brainer, even if you only get 26 painting videos, to pay for the year subscription for the hope of yet another 26 painting videos, on top of the white dwarf info, on top of the model, and whatever else they do.
All YouTube channels and other streaming services look small at the start. Heck, even fresh-faced digital artists look like they don't have a portfolio at the start. That's because it's the start. Give them a couple months and, if they really can keep up the pace, there will be more content than you can sniff through a straw before you know it.
JWBS wrote: His whole point was that doing a proper video service properly should and demonstrably does cost peanuts, ie one quarter of a fraction of a percentage of their net profits for last week.
When you try to pretend like a Youtuber/streamer is the same thing as a "proper video service", you've already played yourself.
Wrote a response then realised who I was replying to.
JWBS wrote: His whole point was that doing a proper video service properly should and demonstrably does cost peanuts, ie one quarter of a fraction of a percentage of their net profits for last week.
Seeing angels of death episodes costs easily 5 digits unless they somehow get significantly under market rate...that's not peanuts even for gw size. Gw isn't amazon/netflix sized
In regards to the Lore show they have posted (my comments on the entire thing I previously stated).
I find it meh.. not really interested in looking at that guy's head to much and the content was ok but way to short (tbh I skipped through a lot even if only 17mins... beacuse kept cutting to his head, why the f... do I want to see this guy or anyone just talk?? I want different images if I actually watch, or when going to sleep/paint, I want in depth content and something that goes long enough for me to go to sleep or paint for awhile).
It defiantly was no Luetin09.
I still think worth the money (even if will probably never watch that show again until bored and give it a revisit)
