BrianDavion wrote: it amuses me how night and day this place is compared to say.. every community discord I've been in.
not really a suprise, Dakka is old, Discord is rather new
so you have a lot of people here who are with GW since the early days have played different versions of most of their games and seen the different kind of community intereaction
so that the hot new stuff that people on discord are happy about it just get a "I have seen this one before, lets see if they get it right this time"
on those community discords I am in, no one cares about WH+ at all and all the hype is about 3D printing for Stargrave
TheBestBucketHead wrote: I only need to trust that they won't stage the winner, to try and pretend there's balance in 40k.
Unless they are putting out dozens of battlereps everyday, the sample size alone would be too small to even factor it into the big balance equation.
Then you might not have cut throat tournament lists on both sides, unequally skilled players, both players not equally familiar with both armies and maybe more.
If it would come down to real, but onesided and boring, I would even rather have them staged but close and entertaining.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Popped in to see what this thread had devolved into, not disappointed.
Been a while since I posted in this forum.. months if not years....
But, unless I missed the sarcasm, glad I'm not the only one that uses this place to check what the bottom half of the hobby is up to
it amuses me how night and day this place is compared to say.. every community discord I've been in.
there you see stuff like "hmm not sure I'm intreasted personally but an intreasting idea" here it's like "GW IS DOING SOMETHING! THE TIME OF THE APOCLYPSE IS UPON US!"
Yeah
To try and keep somewhat on the topic of the thread at hand....
I was thinking of cancelling my 40k app, purely because 2 of the units I regularly use in the list builder haven't had their incorrect rules/points updated for a good while...
But then I spotted the community article about warhammer+ and thought it looks pretty solid value for all the backlog stuff alone.... for a couple of quid more than I already paid the 40k app....
So, I'm going to give it a shot. If it disappoints, I'll cancel it. Job done. But its looking like great value for what's being offered, let's wait and see
.....but I'll keep an eye in dakka's forums to see how big the tyre fire gets on the subject
Well if you keep the app
"Already a Warhammer 40,000 app subscriber? As a way of saying thanks, if you upgrade your subscription into a Warhammer+ sub in the first month after its launch, you’ll get your exclusive free model after nine months, rather than 12. That’s three months earlier than everyone else!
At this point I imagine I’ll end up a subscriber just for the apps. It’s ~2 a month now for the 40k app. I assume the AoS app will end up the same price, so ~4 for both. Compared to ~5 that gives you both apps plus more?
Pretty much expected it to be too thin on content and I'm not surprised its patched up with freebies with limited appeal. They scored an own goal here by not including the BL audio dramas.
I'm most excited for the backlog of older books, be really nice to read the old campaign books I never bought.
My main hope is that the streaming app is castable to the TV easily with chromecast/whatever. That'll be a huge thing for me.
for $60 or so a year, this is a no-brainer for me. Comes out on my Fiancée's birthday, so I'll probably not make too big of a deal about it release day lol, she's not going to want to watch Hammer and Bolter on her birthday
NinthMusketeer wrote: Popped in to see what this thread had devolved into, not disappointed.
Been a while since I posted in this forum.. months if not years....
But, unless I missed the sarcasm, glad I'm not the only one that uses this place to check what the bottom half of the hobby is up to
it amuses me how night and day this place is compared to say.. every community discord I've been in.
there you see stuff like "hmm not sure I'm intreasted personally but an intreasting idea" here it's like "GW IS DOING SOMETHING! THE TIME OF THE APOCLYPSE IS UPON US!"
I'm ver angry over what they are doing with digital rules in multiple places, thank you very much.
My main problem with GW battle-report videos nowadays is that I don't trust them to get the rules right and/or don't use house rules without telling the people in advance
leading to problems because "they should know how to play"
It's not like Youtube battle reports are immune from this either, though. The number of times I've seen one of the Miniwargaming hosts be unsure about a specific rule with a "Let me know in the comments how this works" comment. Or the errors that don't get caught by the hosts, and then you read the comments and see a bunch of people correcting them.
Ideally, battle reports done by GW themselves should always have all the rules down correctly, but let's be honest, we all know that's not going to happen.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Popped in to see what this thread had devolved into, not disappointed.
Been a while since I posted in this forum.. months if not years....
But, unless I missed the sarcasm, glad I'm not the only one that uses this place to check what the bottom half of the hobby is up to
it amuses me how night and day this place is compared to say.. every community discord I've been in.
there you see stuff like "hmm not sure I'm intreasted personally but an intreasting idea" here it's like "GW IS DOING SOMETHING! THE TIME OF THE APOCLYPSE IS UPON US!"
I'm ver angry over what they are doing with digital rules in multiple places, thank you very much.
Same. It’s been aggravating me since they started it in 40k ninth and I’m not pleased to see it continuing into AoS.
Units removed from the DE codex in 7th edition because GW couldn't be arsed making models for them:
- Dracon
- Lesser Haemonculus
- Vect
- The Duke
- Lady malys
- The Decapitator
- Baron Sathonyx
This is on top of DE also losing:
- Archon on Skyboard
- Archon on Jetbike
- Haemonculus on Skyboard
- Haemonculus on Jetbike
In 8th Dark eldar got 0 new models (and I don't mean replacement sculpts, I mean actual new models.)
In 9th Dark Eldar got 0 new models.
"What does any of this have to do with the subscription service?", you might be wondering
Well, apparently GW just don't have the resources to give Dark Eldar any new models to replace the 11 units that have been removed from their book over the years. But it seems they do have the resources to make a fething second Vindicare sculpt sitting on top of a statue with stilts. Thank goodness. No imperial player could possibly have endured had GW not devoted their apparently very-limited resources to making that particular joy.
Call me bitter if you wish but when it's been over 10 years since my army received an actual new model, after having had about 1/4 of its units removed, I'm afraid seeing GW instead spend resources making yet more pointless tat to jangle in front of soon-to-be subscribers like a set of keys before a child neither endears me towards GW nor inclines me towards subscribing.
vipoid wrote: Units removed from the DE codex in 7th edition because GW couldn't be arsed making models for them:
- Dracon
- Lesser Haemonculus
- Vect
- The Duke
- Lady malys
- The Decapitator
- Baron Sathonyx
This is on top of DE also losing:
- Archon on Skyboard
- Archon on Jetbike
- Haemonculus on Skyboard
- Haemonculus on Jetbike
In 8th Dark eldar got 0 new models (and I don't mean replacement sculpts, I mean actual new models.)
In 9th Dark Eldar got 0 new models.
"What does any of this have to do with the subscription service?", you might be wondering
Well, apparently GW just don't have the resources to give Dark Eldar any new models to replace the 11 units that have been removed from their book over the years. But it seems they do have the resources to make a fething second Vindicare sculpt sitting on top of a statue with stilts. Thank goodness. No imperial player could possibly have endured had GW not devoted their apparently very-limited resources to making that particular joy.
Call me bitter if you wish but when it's been over 10 years since my army received an actual new model, after having had about 1/4 of its units removed, I'm afraid seeing GW instead spend resources making yet more pointless tat to jangle in front of soon-to-be subscribers like a set of keys before a child neither endears me towards GW nor inclines me towards subscribing.
inb4 someone says "But you got two whole units remade in the past edition so you have no right to complain" and calls you an entitled bastard
vipoid wrote: Units removed from the DE codex in 7th edition because GW couldn't be arsed making models for them:
- Dracon
- Lesser Haemonculus
- Vect
- The Duke
- Lady malys
- The Decapitator
- Baron Sathonyx
This is on top of DE also losing:
- Archon on Skyboard
- Archon on Jetbike
- Haemonculus on Skyboard
- Haemonculus on Jetbike
In 8th Dark eldar got 0 new models (and I don't mean replacement sculpts, I mean actual new models.)
In 9th Dark Eldar got 0 new models.
"What does any of this have to do with the subscription service?", you might be wondering
Well, apparently GW just don't have the resources to give Dark Eldar any new models to replace the 11 units that have been removed from their book over the years. But it seems they do have the resources to make a fething second Vindicare sculpt sitting on top of a statue with stilts. Thank goodness. No imperial player could possibly have endured had GW not devoted their apparently very-limited resources to making that particular joy.
Call me bitter if you wish but when it's been over 10 years since my army received an actual new model, after having had about 1/4 of its units removed, I'm afraid seeing GW instead spend resources making yet more pointless tat to jangle in front of soon-to-be subscribers like a set of keys before a child neither endears me towards GW nor inclines me towards subscribing.
I run IG, so I absolutely feel your pain on this - that said, I'd wonder if these may simply have been alternate sculpts that didn't make it onto their respective kits when they were being made. I don't know much about what happens between the drawing board and the first kit being sold in stores, but depending on the lead time, they may not have been able to make separate minis for this (even if they did have enough time from the initial Warhammer+ meeting to the release date, the extra-minis-as-incentive may have been added some time afterwards).
Still not subbing because I have a thing about subscription services, mind, and I find myself agreeing/sympathizing more with the negative comments than the positive ones. I just don't think we have enough information to condemn GW for the minis in this specific instance.
I'm gonna say this and hope it comes across as I mean it lol.
I am not going to subscribe because I don't have a need or a want for it. Lol no hate or praise on gw either way.
I like the idea of having a resource that let's me not have to buy 6 to 8 books a year to keep up to date on the rules but after years of struggling with this I just decided to stick to 8th and then if I want updated rules I go with a third party army builder. Honestly the only time I would need updated rules would be if I wanted to attend a modern tourney buuuuut that is rare.
On the exclusive minis meh I have versions of them already.
The only thing tempting would be the animations and the past rule books. To be honest those are not that strong of a pull either since I subscribe to a bunch of content like that already.
All in all it is really a wash for me personally. Some good ideas but nothing really pressing.
It reminds me of DC universe online, which offered similar content. That went flat quickly so it makes me wonder what this "software as a service" is going to do.
vipoid wrote: Units removed from the DE codex in 7th edition because GW couldn't be arsed making models for them:
- Dracon
- Lesser Haemonculus
- Vect
- The Duke
- Lady malys
- The Decapitator
- Baron Sathonyx
This is on top of DE also losing:
- Archon on Skyboard
- Archon on Jetbike
- Haemonculus on Skyboard
- Haemonculus on Jetbike
In 8th Dark eldar got 0 new models (and I don't mean replacement sculpts, I mean actual new models.)
In 9th Dark Eldar got 0 new models.
"What does any of this have to do with the subscription service?", you might be wondering
Well, apparently GW just don't have the resources to give Dark Eldar any new models to replace the 11 units that have been removed from their book over the years. But it seems they do have the resources to make a fething second Vindicare sculpt sitting on top of a statue with stilts. Thank goodness. No imperial player could possibly have endured had GW not devoted their apparently very-limited resources to making that particular joy.
Call me bitter if you wish but when it's been over 10 years since my army received an actual new model, after having had about 1/4 of its units removed, I'm afraid seeing GW instead spend resources making yet more pointless tat to jangle in front of soon-to-be subscribers like a set of keys before a child neither endears me towards GW nor inclines me towards subscribing.
I sincerly doubt it's LE minis that are causing the delay in dark eldar stuff and would you really want GW to put out a Vect mini only to have it be a limited time subscriber thing?
vipoid wrote: Units removed from the DE codex in 7th edition because GW couldn't be arsed making models for them:
- Dracon
- Lesser Haemonculus
- Vect
- The Duke
- Lady malys
- The Decapitator
- Baron Sathonyx
This is on top of DE also losing:
- Archon on Skyboard
- Archon on Jetbike
- Haemonculus on Skyboard
- Haemonculus on Jetbike
In 8th Dark eldar got 0 new models (and I don't mean replacement sculpts, I mean actual new models.)
In 9th Dark Eldar got 0 new models.
"What does any of this have to do with the subscription service?", you might be wondering
Well, apparently GW just don't have the resources to give Dark Eldar any new models to replace the 11 units that have been removed from their book over the years. But it seems they do have the resources to make a fething second Vindicare sculpt sitting on top of a statue with stilts. Thank goodness. No imperial player could possibly have endured had GW not devoted their apparently very-limited resources to making that particular joy.
Call me bitter if you wish but when it's been over 10 years since my army received an actual new model, after having had about 1/4 of its units removed, I'm afraid seeing GW instead spend resources making yet more pointless tat to jangle in front of soon-to-be subscribers like a set of keys before a child neither endears me towards GW nor inclines me towards subscribing.
Over the past 10 years GW released/updated all of the specalist games, board games, AoS and several 40k armies. A single Vindicare is not the reason you don't get models.
AngryAngel80 wrote: Still don't like it, not getting it, paying these greedy buggers even more for stuff I have lived just fine without is not on my agenda.
As for the " Love it or leave it " seemingly straight out of the past mindset regarding GW, yeah the fanboys gonna fanboy. That mentality wasn't right in the past, still not right today and anyone who says love it or leave it should do us all a favor and leave themselves. Blind fanaticism for a product doesn't do it any favors and in fact is something that drags it down making a company blind to its failings over time till it all breaks apart.
That's a nice straw man you've got there.
GW have been behaving like the multinational public company they are for decades. To expect them to behave any differently because of what you say on the Internet is just stupid. Their sales, profit margin on sales and share price are all higher than they've ever been. They're doing something right. And it doesn't involve listening to you.
Moaning about what you see as their failings isn't going to make a blind bit of difference. They know people like you don't like them as a company, they know you don't like the way they operate and they also know it's highly likely you were never going to buy the product you're moaning about, as you admit, or that you will buy it anyway.
I'm certainly not saying "Love it or Leave it", I'm saying that when people hate it all so much and the way GW behaves causes them so much anguish then perhaps they should consider playing a different game.
It would be good for their mental health and they could save yourself a lot of money. Why stay involved with a part of the miniature wargaming hobby you hate so much?
I can't imagine that you haven't been around long enough to notice that GW does this all the time. They may be the biggest game in town, but they like to pretend that they're the only game in town.
If you don't like then play other games.
"If you don't love everything GW does, you have no right to play Warhammer or even interact with people who play Warhammer, or state your opinion on Warhammer."
Pretty pathetic, if you ask me.
I didn't say that. I don't love everything GW does and I don't play Warhammer, though I certainly have the right to do so should I wish. I do play Warcry occasionally and I sometimes state my opinion on Warhammer.
I mostly play non-GW games and I sometimes by GW models and play them in different games. What is your point here?
Speaking of straw mans welcome scarecrow, much like that character though I wish you'd gotten to speak to the Wizard of that far away land to get your wish granted as well. Since when is the behavior of many multinational corporations actually seen as a good thing ? I'd say most these days are far from good and hence why they end up as the bad guys in most near future or far future visions of our own future. They are morally empty and lacking of any real virtue and do little but look at the world and everyone in it as items. They aren't worthy of your, my or any of our respect when they foul up nor are they worthy or gratitude when they choose to do what they should have done all along.
A company however that doesn't listen to its customers, ever is doomed for failure and I hope for their sake they don't just listen to the blind fan boys who claim they can do no wrong. Moaning about me disliking their choices isn't going to make a blind bit of difference to me either bud yet here you are giving it to me anyways, much like I give it to GW. You very much are saying love it or leave it or more over love it or say nothing. Just because someone doesn't like a companies choices doesn't mean they hate the whole game or even the whole hobby aspect from this company. Much like another fictional character a sith you seem to think there is but absolutes to this scenario, when that is far from true. You can like something, love it even but disagree with a direction it goes. You can as well disagree and speak out on something without it causing some sort of mental distress, unless your telling me you taking exception to my words somehow has caused you mental anguish. If it did I am sorry but some of us can dislike something without it turning us into deranged hate monsters.
Sometimes we voice our dislike in hopes the source of it will change for the better, because it isn't just a love it or leave type of issue yeah ? If you took even a moment to check out some of my posts I say when they do good, I say when they do bad, just so happens they've done more bad recently than I'd care to admit to myself. So unless you wanna be me, please don't tell me where my energy can be better served. I'm plenty relaxed and capable of voicing out on something I dislike on a forum based on opinions, thanks much. What would be great for my mental health is people actually worrying about themselves more and trying to devalue others opinions less by just claiming " They are making the monies so theys good ! ". Lots of terrible things and people can make vast profits, doesn't make it the right way to do things. Also doesn't mean they might not make more money if they listened to some of their detractors sometimes but we'll never know as you say they don't give a fig about any of us.
BrianDavion wrote: I sincerly doubt it's LE minis that are causing the delay in dark eldar stuff
FWIW, my point wasn't that these exclusive models were the sole things standing between DE and new units. It's just the complete lack of awareness on GW's part.
Same reason I find it frustrating when Primaris get 20+ different Lieutenant models. Whatever their actual intention, it feels like GW rubbing it in the faces of armies that haven't received a new unit in over a decade (or armies like Eldar, who are still using Rogue Trader era sculpts).
BrianDavion wrote: would you really want GW to put out a Vect mini only to have it be a limited time subscriber thing?
If it means GW putting new units in the DE Codex, then they can make the models as exclusive as they fething well like.
I'll convert Vect (actually, I probably won't because I have no interest in the guy, but that's beside the point ), I'll convert The Decapitator, I'll convert baron Sthonyx, I'll convert a Mandrake Lord (and have), I'll convert a Scourge Supreme, I'll convert a Master Incubus etc..
It's a hell of a lot easier to convert models for pre-existing units I don't (or can't) own than it is to write homebrew rules for entirely new units and convince people to let me use them.
Danny76 wrote: I wonder what the extra gift for app subs is..
I also wonder whether people will group up to but it if that’s possible like most other streaming service apps etc
Included minis might actually prompt more people to subscribe, rather then just sharing a login to watch.
True. But it’s the tiniest part of the sub. Everything else is online content.
I could see people divvying the cost (minus the model let’s say).
5 people pay £5 a year and one of them pays the other £25 and gets the model.
Yeah only works if you only have one for the model. And I guess for the apps and stuff it’d share details etc so would be tricky there as you couldn’t all use them.
But just for the animated show and WHTV series and all that. They could easily get their worth out of it probably.
I really wonder of the eldar range will ever get a makeover. The banshee made me hopeful for one, but that was, iirc, already two years ago. Seems like they have nothing more in the pipeline for them, which is a huge shame. If they ever get redone, i hope they have a more alien look (like some of the art) and look less like elves in space
streetsamurai wrote: I really wonder of the eldar range will ever get a makeover. The banshee made me hopeful for one, but that was, iirc, already two years ago. Seems like they have nothing more in the pipeline for them, which is a huge shame. If they ever get redone, i hope they have a more alien look (like some of the art) and look less like elves in space
I don't think any Eldar fan would like it if they overhauled the aesthetic that remained completly unchanged for a good 30 years, and was the reason they probably picked them as their army in the first place.
streetsamurai wrote: I really wonder of the eldar range will ever get a makeover. The banshee made me hopeful for one, but that was, iirc, already two years ago. Seems like they have nothing more in the pipeline for them, which is a huge shame. If they ever get redone, i hope they have a more alien look (like some of the art) and look less like elves in space
Back when Jes Goodwin did a thing on Voxcast showcasing the Serberys and whatnot, he made a mention of starting to work on some Aeldari stuff after he did the AdMech stuff for Engine War.
I actually quite like the current Eldar range. I’ve painted enough of them in the last few years and I like their look. The only thing I’d really like to see are plastic aspect warriors, and a plastic warlock conclave.
General Kroll wrote: I actually quite like the current Eldar range. I’ve painted enough of them in the last few years and I like their look. The only thing I’d really like to see are plastic aspect warriors, and a plastic warlock conclave.
adding onto that, it'd be nice to see a plastic Avatar of Kaine. if only because back in the day the Avatar was phsycialy and stats wise on par with greater deamons and the like and now is a bit small
I was sceptical of the whole Warhammer+ thing when it was first announced. After seeing more details I'm not particularly persuaded. I'm not an AoS player so the model/app access for it is fairly useless to me. Of the other things they annoucned:
1. There are two animations available at launch. That's nowhere near enough to grab my interest and doesn't bode well for the future release schedule. They announced 11 animations in the initial preview and I'd have been expecting around 5-6 of those either at launch or in the first month to make subscribing for the animations worth it.
2. Special VIP...stuff. Well, GW haven't really said what this is so it's not a selling point.
3. Lore videos! From experts! This is an intriguing idea, if only because I'm genuinely interested in how they present it. The actual content is easily available elsewhere though so, again, it's not a selling point.
4. Battle reports. I can get them from numerous places online for free. Those reports probably include fewer rules mistakes and more interesting armies than GW's ones will.
5. Free app access. The 40k app sucks. It's still non-functional for some armies 9 months after launch. Battlescribe of pen and paper are better alternatives.
6. Free mini. Only after 12 months. The Vindicare is nice but the stupid statue ruins it for me and I already own a perfectly serviceable Vindicare model. Granted, he's not carting his own piece of elevated cover around with him, but I view that as a positive. I also note people are mentioning the ~£25 cost of the character model as making the annual sub worth it but that only applies if you think £25 is a reasonable price for those sorts of models in the first place. I don't, which is why I haven't paid that price for a GW character in years.
To me it seems like most of what's on offer is pretty worthless. £50 a year is not a huge amount of money but I'd much rather take that £50 and spend it purely on things I want for my hobby instead of a bunch of online material of dubious or unknown quality.
Kanluwen wrote: Back when Jes Goodwin did a thing on Voxcast showcasing the Serberys and whatnot, he made a mention of starting to work on some Aeldari stuff after he did the AdMech stuff for Engine War.
I miss voxcast. Outside of the company propaganda, it was very enlightening to here things from Jes and other designer's perspective.
sub-zero wrote: Does anyone know if it's been confirmed that Warhammer+ will be available to watch on xbox live?
From a Warhammer Community article:
Much of the new content will be available through the new Warhammer TV app. This is your hub for all of the new painting, lore, and gaming shows, as well as Warhammer animations. It will be available at launch on iOS and Android, as well as the Apple TV, Amazon Fire TV, and Roku services, so you can watch the latest episodes of Loremaster, Citadel Colour Masterclass, and more from the comfort of your sofa.
We’re aiming to cover even more platforms post-launch, but in the meantime, Warhammer TV will also have a dedicated website that you can access from your desktop, mobile, and tablet as needed.
I assume Xbox Live comes under "even more platforms post-launch".
There is a Hammer and Bolter preview this Saturday. In summary, an episode about Yarrick from an Ork perspective available for 24 hours as advertisement for the Warhammer+ launch.
This weekend, for 24 hours only from 12pm BST on Saturday the 21st of August, you can watch an entire episode of Hammer and Bolter for free.
Not brilliant that the "top company" they've had working on this wasn't able to sort out an Android TV app for launch when there's a Fire TV app.
It's not quite zero porting required between the two, but it's not much in the grand scheme of things and it rather suggests a rushed, badly planned launch.
The Phazer wrote: Not brilliant that the "top company" they've had working on this wasn't able to sort out an Android TV app for launch when there's a Fire TV app.
It's not quite zero porting required between the two, but it's not much in the grand scheme of things and it rather suggests a rushed, badly planned launch.
Is there a difference between an Android app and an Android TV app?
The Phazer wrote: Not brilliant that the "top company" they've had working on this wasn't able to sort out an Android TV app for launch when there's a Fire TV app.
It's not quite zero porting required between the two, but it's not much in the grand scheme of things and it rather suggests a rushed, badly planned launch.
Is there a difference between an Android app and an Android TV app?
In practice yes though they're very similar. But they have different application manifests and realistically different user interfaces.
The Phazer wrote: Not brilliant that the "top company" they've had working on this wasn't able to sort out an Android TV app for launch when there's a Fire TV app.
It's not quite zero porting required between the two, but it's not much in the grand scheme of things and it rather suggests a rushed, badly planned launch.
Did they ever reveal who the "top company" is? I wouldn't be surprised to learn its a middling but established company that nobody has ever actually heard of
The Phazer wrote: Not brilliant that the "top company" they've had working on this wasn't able to sort out an Android TV app for launch when there's a Fire TV app.
It's not quite zero porting required between the two, but it's not much in the grand scheme of things and it rather suggests a rushed, badly planned launch.
Did they ever reveal who the "top company" is? I wouldn't be surprised to learn its a middling but established company that nobody has ever actually heard of
No, but I'll figure it out within half an hour of the app going live.
If Hammer and Bolter is just hot takes/re-tellings of famous battles/rivalries etc, I'll take it.
Think who they could cover with it, Mephistons story is pretty epic, the last chancers, an Eisenhorn short story, there's too many to mention and that is just the imperial possibilities.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
shadowsfm wrote: felt like an animated comic, but at least the art was good and the soundtrack was amazing
I got Batman: The Dark Knight Returns vibes from it in terms of the animation (animated comic as you say), I like it.
I enjoyed it for the story and the animation was mixed to me. Some very good animated sequences mixed with some slide-show-ish sequences and some weird choices.
Though overall. I still enjoyed it. The Art-style itself was great and the voice acting was really good. I was skeptical for the voice acting because of Angels of Death, but this has put my mind at ease.
The Orks reminded me of the Gummi Bears, of all things…
The story was fun (though well known), and the art did look nice. I assume Warhammer+ will have a variety of animation styles, but this alone isn’t enough to convince me a subscription is worth it.
Music - absolutely perfect.
Voice acting - very solid!
Orkyness - spot on
Artistic designs - really good!
Animation - works for what it intends to be which is more of a visual comic than it is a full fluid animation.
The style of story telling through narration also works well for summarising the whole story that its aiming to do.
All round its great! Sure if they smooth animated the whole thing like an anime from the 80-90s it would be "better" but GW isn't working with those budgets nor staff on this project.
I'd say its a very solid first step and we know this comes alongside other animations with other styles. It will be interesting to see how the different styles evolve and develop. It's also nice to see it being a solid intro, you don't really have to know too much about the setting to get this animation and what it shows you.
It also does the important thing of leaving an open ending so it leaves you wanting more and leaves the opportunity for more to be made.
No credits. Very odd. Would'a thought they'd show off the names of the people behind it, the voice actors especially.
In any case, it was nice to see the story of Yarrick in animated form. Well, "animated", as I think old school anime had more frames per second than this animation did.
Overread wrote: All round its great! Sure if they smooth animated the whole thing like an anime from the 80-90s it would be "better" but GW isn't working with those budgets nor staff on this project.
You do realize that the average budget for a 13-ep anime one-cour series as of today (not in the 80s-90s) is about $2M, right?
Yes but do they even have access to anime studios for this? Don't forget GW is basically totally unknown in the animation market and their IP is something they strictly control that external studios might not want to work with when they can use IPs that are easier to work with or even create their own original ones.
Interestingly they also note in this article that many of the anime cannot expect to recover those investment costs either. Relying on a few big names and merch to basically ensure they survive
H.B.M.C. wrote: And we know they're doing lots of animation that is smooth (and even 3D), so really "budget" isn't an good explanation.
It's just an excuse, and a weak one at that.
Not really - if they are doing multiple then some might have more budget than others. Which does bring in the question of if GW should or could have done fewer but had higher production values. Then again I think they are copying a bit of their Video Game approach - scattershot everything and see what lands and what works and build from their.
Overread wrote: Yes but do they even have access to anime studios for this? Don't forget GW is basically totally unknown in the animation market and their IP is something they strictly control that external studios might not want to work with when they can use IPs that are easier to work with or even create their own original ones.
Why would they not? As long as they pay, there's dozens of studios willing to do whatever, and if no japanese studio is, well, even the japanese ones outsource to Korea.
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Overread wrote: Interestingly they also note in this article that many of the anime cannot expect to recover those investment costs either. Relying on a few big names and merch to basically ensure they survive
Otherwise, I was a bit reticent at first but as the episode goes on, I grew on it. It has a very "comix" feeling and since everything is told from the ork's point of view, it makes sense it's used here. Orks like flashy and exaggerated stories, after all - style of comix depicting Yarrick as some kind of superhero / archvillain is pretty much in the line with how they view him.
Question is : is it really worth subscribing to Warhammer + just for that ? I would say "no", but it's not like it's the only content here.
Budget is not for just one animated series, after all.
Overread wrote: Not really - if they are doing multiple then some might have more budget than others. Which does bring in the question of if GW should or could have done fewer but had higher production values. Then again I think they are copying a bit of their Video Game approach - scattershot everything and see what lands and what works and build from their.
I think they specifically chose Hammer and Bolter and a viable low budget format for it to give them substantial runtime as filler next to bigger budget full on animations that go for "quality" first and foremost. Warhammer+ is a diverse package, but the animations are a big part of GW's marketing of it and as has been mentioned so many times before, it's not going to do its job of drawing in subscribers if there is too little to watch in the beginning and GW can't provide more on a regular basis. This animated comic kind of thing is a viable way of addressing that issue.
I don't think it has anything to do with figuring out what works and what doesn't (beyond any normal evaluation process of a product, anyway). In this case I think GW know very well what they're doing.
Yeah, not even in the same league. Helluva Boss is significantly better in all respects.
This. If I'd have handed this in back when I got a degree in animation this would have been C-D material. It made web series like Starbarians look good, and that was animated by one guy.
Thats such an awful terrain layout. I get its meant to be a casual narrative game, but the complete lack of line of sight blocking pieces on 4/5ths of the table, as well as the fact that what LOS blocking terrain there is is placed where it will be essentially completely irrelevant to actual gameplay, just makes this feel like its going to be a tactically uninteresting engagement.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So there's an article on "Battle Report", which is a tremendously original title for their W+ battle report videos.
Here's their WIP table for the first one (DG vs Ultramarines):
First of all: I hope that's not it. Planet bowling ball is a bad start.
Secondly, it suddenly reminded me that every "Battle Report" is going to take place on a Realm of Battle board. Great...
But its a 'custom' gameboard made entirely of... things out of GW boxes. And its so important for the premiere of Warhammer+ that they.. rushed it in two weeks so they could churn out the next one.
Maybe I'm the crazy person, but why not go all in on excellent paint jobs on terrain that they can reuse like normal people?
'Battle Report' is... huh. Truth in Advertising I guess, but not exactly compelling. Is everything going under this umbrella? Nothing game specific for better advertising... to the people already invested enough in the games to sub to the channel that tells them about the games they already bought into... nevermind.
Well, I look forward to not watching primarchs brawl in an empty space urban ruin that represents the garden world of Iax. So evocative!
H.B.M.C. wrote: So there's an article on "Battle Report", which is a tremendously original title for their W+ battle report videos.
Here's their WIP table for the first one (DG vs Ultramarines):
First of all: I hope that's not it. Planet bowling ball is a bad start.
Secondly, it suddenly reminded me that every "Battle Report" is going to take place on a Realm of Battle board. Great...
Gee, looks like its going to be "guess the xenos scum that gets to run over open broken ground to fortified imperial lines". Wonder who will win, hmmmmm?
Their first BatRep is a historical reenactment... on a blank table. I hope they leave the clattering of dice on that blasted rubbish RoB board in the video.
Did anyone seriously expect these battle reports to be anything but an advertise for GW products?
They already took White Dwarf in that direction and that's what their youtube painting tutorials are for.
kirotheavenger wrote: Did anyone seriously expect these battle reports to be anything but an advertise for GW products?
They already took White Dwarf in that direction and that's what their youtube painting tutorials are for.
of course it is advertising you are supposed to pay for
but they are taking their painting videos serious (unlike the 4 step guides were 10 steps between 3 and 4 are missing) although it is advertising
so coming up with such a battle report either means they are not taking playing the game as serious as painting their minis
or they are serious about it and this is how GW thinks everyone should play 40k
The game this board is being used for is a narrative driven battle between two Primarchs.
And you complain that the board isn't sporting the correct amount and placement of LOS blocking terrain... why?
My magic 8 ball told me that they won't be using cutthroat tournament meta lists either, can you imagine?
And what makes you think this is how everyone is supposed to play the game?
Have you forgotten about the article showing the two officially used boards for GW tournaments already, or do you just want to gak on the company because it is that time of the week again?
I always thought that narrative game will use more terrain for more flair on the table even if it hinders gameplay for the larger models
stupid me
and of course GW showing this board means they are playing very niche setups you should never use if you play this battle at home, that is why they show it as you will never see something like that outside WH+
a_typical_hero wrote: The game this board is being used for is a narrative driven battle between two Primarchs.
And you complain that the board isn't sporting the correct amount and placement of LOS blocking terrain... why?
My magic 8 ball told me that they won't be using cutthroat tournament meta lists either, can you imagine?
And what makes you think this is how everyone is supposed to play the game?
Have you forgotten about the article showing the two officially used boards for GW tournaments already, or do you just want to gak on the company because it is that time of the week again?
Either the game is just about smashing two Primarchs into one another while everyone else watches, which is boring as hell. Or it's a narrative game about a historical conflict involving two armies which happen to be led by Primarchs, in which case a table with no appreciable cover makes for a boring game. It doesn't have to be a tournament game with cut-throat armies but it at least has to be engaging and what they've shown so far isn't that.
I'd also argue that almost every narrative game I've seen or played in tended to have more terrain than normal, not less. It also tended to be very thematic, not just standard GW realm of battle stuff.
kirotheavenger wrote: Did anyone seriously expect these battle reports to be anything but an advertise for GW products?
They already took White Dwarf in that direction and that's what their youtube painting tutorials are for.
of course it is advertising you are supposed to pay for
but they are taking their painting videos serious (unlike the 4 step guides were 10 steps between 3 and 4 are missing) although it is advertising
so coming up with such a battle report either means they are not taking playing the game as serious as painting their minis
or they are serious about it and this is how GW thinks everyone should play 40k
Even though I agree that just because the game board's intended purpose is to advertise there's nothing to stop the terrain team from making something funky, I'm not sure painting videos are a good comparison. Using Citadel paints to paint a Citadel miniature assembled following the assembly instructions gets its variability from the number of paints used and the time the painter puts into the model, the latter of which is not as relevant a factor for GW. A the model or a squad itself comes straight from a single box. For painting, the sale is always this one box and however many paints GW's savvy marketing guy thinks they can get away selling for that kit. A board, short of starter sets like for Kill Team or Warcry, does not come out of a single box. The variability here is the number of terrain kits require to recreate the advertised item and the ease of combining these kits. Terrain kits have a significantly higher price tag and adding one or two is simply not the same as adding another pot of paint or two. Additionally, kitbashing terrain kits requires more skill and dedication than adding layers of paint. It's an overall tougher sell, and I'd expect a directive from marketing to keep terrain creation simpler and more accessible to make it a more manageable purchase. I don't think it's about being serious so much as having different goals for their advertising based on what people will buy into.
As for what we can expect to learn about how GW wants us to play the game, doesn't the article already answer that?
Our gaming presenter, Patrick, who you’ll get to know very well in the coming months, chose this particular battle. He spent a lot of time preparing everything – researching the setting, writing the army lists, and coming up with a suitable mission to play.
He then drew a sketch of how he saw the armies interacting with the scenery to recreate the clash as closely as possible. This gave the team a strong start from which we could use our modelling experience and knowledge of the Warhammer 40,000 terrain range to bring the battlefield to life.
Dude does all the setup and passes out from Forging the Narrative(TM) so hard that two other guys have to step in to play the actual game.
You could take any of Jervis's preachy articles from the last 25 years and get the same information out of it. These new battle reports won't be any kind of revelation.
I wonder if this was done so they could get the whole army in photoshoots.
Units hidden behind buildings looks bad for the camera. It's the sort of set-up you'd see in Armies on Parade.
Cronch wrote: Probably because games on planet golfcourse are boring as hell to watch, since there's no movement or tactic to speak of?
Hey, don't tarnish the name of planet golf-course with that comparison... at least golf courses have bunkers.
Technically, that table has two bunkers too ^^. And trenchworks, even.
That's a generous description of those terrain pieces. Technically, I suppose that's what they are. Do love the trenches that somehow manage to actually raise the occupant and make them easier to hit than if they were just stood on flat open ground. At least their toes will be in cover.
Earthworks don't always have to be recessed, though I think they look better if they are. To me it just looks weird because those look like prefab and on top of the gameboard it looks a bit odd.
But this is nothing new. Since 5e GW have only used their saleable products in their books and videos. It's sad from a hobby POV but I guess makes sense to them from a business POV.
Overread wrote: Most trenches in board games are rise-up kinds unless you go all out building a custom board with recessed trenches.
And as we all know, that kind of thing just cannot be done. Laws of physics bend and twist if your board isn't made of Official GW Components. GW lost three interns trying to make actual custom boards this way.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Well, I don’t think anyone expected them to be GW promoting another product or laying into their own?
So you're ok with paying for someone else's advertisments?
a_typical_hero wrote: And you complain that the board isn't sporting the correct amount and placement of LOS blocking terrain... why?
I said nothing about the "correct amount and placement of LOS blocking terrain". I just said it's a terrible table. Because it's planet bowling ball. It's a mostly flat surface with little to no features of any kind. And it's a fething RoB board.
a_typical_hero wrote: My magic 8 ball told me that they won't be using cutthroat tournament meta lists either, can you imagine?
You going to argue against points made by someone in particular, or are you fine just throwing straw around the thread?
JimmyWolf87 wrote: That's a generous description of those terrain pieces. Technically, I suppose that's what they are. Do love the trenches that somehow manage to actually raise the occupant and make them easier to hit than if they were just stood on flat open ground. At least their toes will be in cover.
Overread wrote: Most trenches in board games are rise-up kinds unless you go all out building a custom board with recessed trenches.
Good thing they're not actually trenches, nor are they meant to be. They're pre-fab fortifications that sit above ground and provide consistent cover along a battle line.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Well, I don’t think anyone expected them to be GW promoting another product or laying into their own?
So you're ok with paying for someone else's advertisements?
As much as people pay to watch football clubs play which is just advertising for the club merch and tickets
or video games
or basically any event.
Even 3rd party battle reports cost and many of the best are done by teams who run stores or run ads or such to cover investment and costs.
In the end sure its advertising, as much as if you engage with anything else GW or any company does. And perhaps some of their "ads" are just going to be fun things and enjoyable without being competitive or something.
Cronch wrote: And as we all know, that kind of thing just cannot be done. Laws of physics bend and twist if your board isn't made of Official GW Components. GW lost three interns trying to make actual custom boards this way.
It really has very little to do with GW.
Lots of places make "trenches" terrain, and more often than not they sit at table level and rise up, dip down back to near table level for the "trench", and then rise up again on the other side. They look silly and unnatural because they're trying to create a trench on top of a flat surface*. Forge World made a proper trend system that has to be sunk into a surface. GW decided to just not make them trenches, and make them pre-fab battlements. Far cleverer idea.
Has nothing to do with official GW components or whatever you were trying to spin there.
Overread wrote: As much as people pay to watch football clubs play which is just advertising for the club merch and tickets or video games or basically any event.
Football games are just advertising for merch and tickets?
I mean, I'm a cynic, but I don't regard "basically any event" as "just advertising". That's absurd.
*You could argue that river terrain does the same.
Sure how else and why else would they spend a fortune putting it on TV and such?
We don't like to think about the money that runs the sports and events and competitions we enjoy; but in a world that runs on money and commerce its basically there. However its not by any means the only thing.
You can choose to see it as the only thing if you want; but if you do so it will likely harm your enjoyment because you're choosing to ignore every other reason and just focus in on one.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Well, I don’t think anyone expected them to be GW promoting another product or laying into their own?
So you're ok with paying for someone else's advertisements?
As much as people pay to watch football clubs play which is just advertising for the club merch and tickets
or video games
or basically any event.
Even 3rd party battle reports cost and many of the best are done by teams who run stores or run ads or such to cover investment and costs.
In the end sure its advertising, as much as if you engage with anything else GW or any company does. And perhaps some of their "ads" are just going to be fun things and enjoyable without being competitive or something.
That's a weird take on the situation, to say the least. Yes, pretty much any popular event will have some form of advertising but the complaints around GW's approach (and others that do similar things) is how thinly veiled the adverts are. I don't think anyone who goes to a football match comes away thinking they're just having advertising thrown at them rather than watching a sport. I'm not sure the same can be said of White Dwarf, or GW's batreps where the singular intention a lot of the time seems to be to sell you something rather than doing that organically through the entertainment value of the content.
I think a lot of it comes down to the order in which this stuff happens.
GW started by producing their 'merch', and now branches out into batreps. Certainly from the table it seems like this merch is front and centre.
Whereas stuff like football went the other way. They started with football, selling spectator tickets. Then they branched out into merch. That means the merch revolves around the game. Whereas with GW it seems the batreps will revolve around the merch (like White Dwarf revolves around the merch).
a_typical_hero wrote: The game this board is being used for is a narrative driven battle between two Primarchs.
And you complain that the board isn't sporting the correct amount and placement of LOS blocking terrain... why?
My magic 8 ball told me that they won't be using cutthroat tournament meta lists either, can you imagine?
And what makes you think this is how everyone is supposed to play the game?
Have you forgotten about the article showing the two officially used boards for GW tournaments already, or do you just want to gak on the company because it is that time of the week again?
Either the game is just about smashing two Primarchs into one another while everyone else watches, which is boring as hell. Or it's a narrative game about a historical conflict involving two armies which happen to be led by Primarchs, in which case a table with no appreciable cover makes for a boring game. It doesn't have to be a tournament game with cut-throat armies but it at least has to be engaging and what they've shown so far isn't that.
I'd also argue that almost every narrative game I've seen or played in tended to have more terrain than normal, not less. It also tended to be very thematic, not just standard GW realm of battle stuff.
And if forces are primarily melee with maybe odd 24" range weapon is lack of los blocking terrain big issue?
What was story it involved anyway? Was it for example during night?
We know there's at least one psyker and one monster involved so I'd say the general lack of terrain is a problem, yes. The lack of terrain that can potentially slow down Mortarian or allow you to hide from LoS psychic powers will likely be a problem. Further, if the game is literally two all-melee armies I don't think it'll be that interesting given how resilient DG are in melee.
I'm sure there are any number of ways you could try to make the game they described interesting but that table and my general faith in GW mean I'm not holding my breath.
I see GW are going to be offering a £10 (or currency equivalent) voucher if you subscribe to Warhmmer+ before the end of August and remain subscribed through September.
Tavis75 wrote: I see GW are going to be offering a £10 (or currency equivalent) voucher if you subscribe to Warhmmer+ before the end of August and remain subscribed through September.
Tavis75 wrote: I see GW are going to be offering a £10 (or currency equivalent) voucher if you subscribe to Warhmmer+ before the end of August and remain subscribed through September.
Seems like a decent deal, or at least means you'll get the sub for free for the first two months.
Also, it doesn't look desperate at all.
lol this x1 million
This art style/animation level should not be something we accept from a multi-million pound company, half the stuff on YouTube was better than this. If you accept this mediocrity then expert more. I won't be giving them my money on this.
They really want people to try the service, but I think the deals easy for them. Plastic is cheap for them as a product once it’s already on the shelf. And single mini not much in the long run.
Especially if it converts into more sales. They leveraging what they have and it’s going to work.
Will people stay, I suspect if they offer another mini on top. Then yes, I think it will be a success no matter the quality.
They just ran offers for gift-vouchers for every certain amount spent in their webstore...if you didn't see them doing this as a possibility but always see it as a "desperation" move?
That's on you. It seems more just to be another incentive.
Kanluwen wrote: They just ran offers for gift-vouchers for every certain amount spent in their webstore...if you didn't see them doing this as a possibility but always see it as a "desperation" move?
That's on you. It seems more just to be another incentive.
That's also been a very rare thing for GW over the past decade. I can think of one other time they've done something like that in the past 10 years (besides WH+), and that was during the full lockdown portion of the pandemic when they weren't shipping product. Let's not act like this is some commonplace thing for them.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Like how Disney+ offered me a discounted first year subscription, and froze my subscription price in the second year desperate?
Or is it just…..y’know….basic marketing?
Right after releasing a video to (apparently) lukewarm reception, at best?
Basic marketing it might be, but the timing is kind of suspect.
I am actually very hopeful regarding the impact of GW official 40k battle reports. I doubt any of the upper management/decision makers have ever played a game of warhammer, or even seen what it looks like.
Now they will have a digestible media format to drink their product in. And it will likely reveal to them what a convoluted and unfun mess the game actually is to play, when you strip away all the hype and consumerism and the marketing.
If they want warhammer to compete with other esport IPs, they will need to completely redesign the game system. Attempting to produce their own slick and interesting battle reports will show them all the brutal warts that 40k carries with it.
Kanluwen wrote: They just ran offers for gift-vouchers for every certain amount spent in their webstore...if you didn't see them doing this as a possibility but always see it as a "desperation" move?
That's on you. It seems more just to be another incentive.
I'm not sure that's the case. I think I've only seen actual vouchers... maybe twice. And I worked for them five years.
They were up front early on that special rewards/vouchers/discounts/somesuch would be part of Warhammer+
It's also a good method to try and secure more people joining up early, knowing that many will sign up monthly and ignore the continual costs to subscribe.
GW can easily offer up to 20% off in deals through the system and still profit well (3rd parties can offer up to around that discount and the stock they sell has to be sold well under that for it to be worth them doing it so GW would still be well in pocket).
Plus things like the free models require long term subscriptions - its a smart move to lock people into the system.
GW does "Vouchers if X" runs all the time. It's how they get people to use the webstore more often since you can't spend the virtual vouchers anywhere else.
oh man, after reading today's article, it doesn't sound like I'll be getting much for the first month. 4 episodes of AoD at most, old WD issues from last year..
I'm not so sure about going all in on the 60€ Joe Pineapples fig anymore. Maybe I'll just buy one from a scapler instead...
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Like how Disney+ offered me a discounted first year subscription, and froze my subscription price in the second year desperate?
Or is it just…..y’know….basic marketing?
Ah indeed. After all, Disney just had a middling newgrounds flash animation on launch... oh wait.
Marketing depends of multiple factors, specially the initial lineup. Disney wanted to go all out and carve a chunk of the market. This is just an attempt to stave off the cash hemorrage.
Disney + was a disappointment for me until it started releasing more than one original show and put the Fox stuff up.
Of course, one company owning that much media content is scary but at the same time I can watch Star Wars, Castle, Firefly, and Loki all on the same platform.
So technically, warhammer plus is only £15. Whether or not its a good deal is up to you, but the freebies make it more tempting.
1) the voucher has to be spent on GW online store, you still end up giving them money on top of the subscription fee to use it.
2) Megaboss is not free, it's included in the price. Depending on how much you think the rest of the digital content is worth, you could say the megaboss is 50 quid, 12mo pre-order.
In the end, if you sign up and use the voucher, GW still end up with extra profit from this promo. If you planned to subscribe anyway it's a nice bonus, but i suppose if you sign up for a month you end up with 5 pounds extra to spend on full-priced GW stuff. It's most likely just buying from a discount retailer would net you better savings than this voucher.
There's no content, of course they're offering incentives to get you to sign up. The list of stuff available on launch is unbelievably thin. Like I honestly am floored they think it's smart to release a new subscription service this devoid of content. I would love to have been a fly in the wall on the meetings where they decided "no, we're going forward now, even though we only have 5 hours of content plus some PDFs of old WD back issues."
Kanluwen wrote: They just ran offers for gift-vouchers for every certain amount spent in their webstore...if you didn't see them doing this as a possibility but always see it as a "desperation" move?
That's on you. It seems more just to be another incentive.
I'm not sure that's the case. I think I've only seen actual vouchers... maybe twice. And I worked for them five years.
We just had one last month. We had a few different ones going last year during lockdown. They've done it a few times for FW specifically.
Just because they didn't do it when you worked for them doesn't mean it is some grand desperation move.
Gregor Samsa wrote: I am actually very hopeful regarding the impact of GW official 40k battle reports. I doubt any of the upper management/decision makers have ever played a game of warhammer, or even seen what it looks like.
Now they will have a digestible media format to drink their product in. And it will likely reveal to them what a convoluted and unfun mess the game actually is to play, when you strip away all the hype and consumerism and the marketing.
If they want warhammer to compete with other esport IPs, they will need to completely redesign the game system. Attempting to produce their own slick and interesting battle reports will show them all the brutal warts that 40k carries with it.
Hi you seem new around these parts. This is how it will work most probley.
GW will put as little time, money and effort into this project as possible. You will get one figure for free ( which seems to be the big thing wh+ is pushing) , as little animation as possible with more promises then you can shake a stick at. Battle reports that will show off the army, terrain and whatever else they are pushing this sales cycle just like wd does, but now they don't have a 3 month lead time like in printed WD. A broken army list maker that they will fix... Soon™. Tickets to events that most people will never get to use unless they are going to close down GW/Warhammer to paying customers on certain days just for VIP only events/previews? Painting articles which won't be as useful as most of the ones you can get on YouTube for free.
We all know GW doesn't like anything where they can't control the final product or the message. Seems to me that we will soon see C&D's on battle report channels especially if behind a paywall/subscription model like twitch or YTred or pateron.
We all know GW hates the internet and this seems like the best they could come up with in the least amount of time issued to the lowest bidder.
One thing that will happen is the whales/white knights will toss money at it no matter the price and smash anyone who "doesn't see it as the awesome deal that it is." . The black knights will slam was for the shameless cash grab it is while pointing out all it's flaws at every opportunity. While some will wait and see. The sky is blue, water is wet and Satan clause is out there Jimmy and he's just getting stronger.
Kanluwen wrote: They just ran offers for gift-vouchers for every certain amount spent in their webstore...if you didn't see them doing this as a possibility but always see it as a "desperation" move?
That's on you. It seems more just to be another incentive.
I'm not sure that's the case. I think I've only seen actual vouchers... maybe twice. And I worked for them five years.
We just had one last month. We had a few different ones going last year during lockdown. They've done it a few times for FW specifically.
Just because they didn't do it when you worked for them doesn't mean it is some grand desperation move.
Name another one than the two promos you already mentioned, because it's already been acknowledged that GW has run this promotion twice in the last two years. I'm also pretty sure they only ran it once during the pandemic, but it applied to both GW and FW.
Most recent one I saw was $8 for an $80 or more purchase. I believe the time before that it was a $20 on a $200 or more order. I think it's more to just get people to order larger orders instead of the 1-2 bottles of paint or one $50 box of Marines. With the increase in profit they make from selling direct these are a no brainer for them.
Name another one than the two promos you already mentioned, because it's already been acknowledged that GW has run this promotion twice in the last two years. I'm also pretty sure they only ran it once during the pandemic, but it applied to both GW and FW.
If you want to dig through history, I'm sure you can find it but they've done gift-cards a few times over the years before this. They used to be more common around Black Friday. Of course maybe it's a regional thing? I know that at least once was when the first Cruddace Guard book came out, because I got a gift-card alongside of my Codex+Valkyries.
Before the "MyWarhammer" thing got activated, it was separate for FW+GW sites whenever they did the FW promotions(which tended more towards free shipping codes than anything else).
OH! And then there's the "Wish List" bit that they've been doing for a long time now.
Warhammer+ goes live on Wednesday the 25th of August, so save the date. The service launches with the following content:
Episodes 1-3 of the Warhammer animated anthology, Hammer and Bolter
Episode 1 of the Warhammer animation Angels of Death
Access to the Warhammer Vault
Premium access to the Warhammer 40,000: The App
Two episodes of Battle Report
Two episodes of Citadel Masterclass
More New Things Added Every Wednesday
I mean if you were already peying for the app I guess thats is a good way to be milked for a bit more.
The £10 is good and all, but I cant remember the last time I ordered anything directly from GW... Like 3rd poarty store give me up to 20% off as well as cheaper/ free P&P. I go into local store to pick up the occasional wash.paint and have a chat but that's literally it. Everyone I know orders from outsider stores or ebays/ trades. Our wargaming club gets additonal 2% off on top of any discount plus they get some sort of cut to help the club running. So I wouldn't even be able to/wiling spend the £10.
Im glad they clearly stated exactly what is involved in this and how the content will be updated (I guess one new episode of something every Wednesday?)
Hopefully we wont get a wave of people moaning how they signed up to this and how they feel robbed..
I've ordered a few things off GW central. Print on Demand books; or art/lore books are often a good thing to grab from GW central as sometimes their stock is iffy or small to the 3rd parties (or they just don't get them at all).
Argive wrote: The £10 is good and all, but I cant remember the last time I ordered anything directly from GW... Like 3rd poarty store give me up to 20% off as well as cheaper/ free P&P.
First world problems.
Here in the wilderness of sub-developed countries we get no discount.
If we are lucky, we get free delivery, over the same price threshold as GW's webstore, only in the same country. The product itself is overpriced due to import charges by quite a good chunk (from 10 to 40%), and then there is the distances. If not in the capital city or the most developed cities, nothing and merely collectors.
Depending on how well developed we are, we can opt on buying a kit once, then sending it to 3D reprint as many times as the individual wants. We usually don't mind buying one or two Knights or Star-Drakes, but having to buy MULTIPLES for a single detachment/battalion? yeah, OfficeMax for miniatures.
This kind of WH+ offerings are truly trying to get attention from an international audience too; maybe we are not the main focus, but they are aware that we are limited on chances and they are aware that money is money anywhere you go.
pogey wrote: I would honestly pay if it had every white dwarf back issue. I am also sure that will never happen
if it was a month or two behind the issue release it'd be better then just getting a WD subscription... which to my mind suggests they'll not do that
There are a lot of back issues.
I assume a WD subscription doesn’t give you access to issues before you started?
All they would need to do to make both worth having is keeping the most recent back issue available on W+ far enough back that’s it’s not relevant to modern play. 3 years is an edition these days. So if you want modern content/rules/articles/etc. you still need the WD.
Of course, if there are painting tutorials, bat reps etc on W+, how much unique content is left for the dwarf? Just the static print copy, instead of video versions.
If it included all back issues of white dwarf even I might be tempted, even if it didn't include the current WD. If they included defunct rulebooks and whatnot I'd be throwing money at them
BrianDavion wrote: if it was a month or two behind the issue release it'd be better then just getting a WD subscription... which to my mind suggests they'll not do that
If it had everything prior, I don't even care about the current stuff.
Overread wrote: I've ordered a few things off GW central. Print on Demand books; or art/lore books are often a good thing to grab from GW central as sometimes their stock is iffy or small to the 3rd parties (or they just don't get them at all).
Heck there's an art book going up next weekend
Then there are entire armies with most web store only which while flgs can order it's without discount and delivery time lot longer than reqular stuff(i find at least month is norm) vs gw who delivers lot fast direct.
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AduroT wrote: Did the AoS app get pushed back? I thought that was supposed to launch this month as part of this.
No word on that. And i read speculation battletome delay is related to this. Ie app not out, gw won't release books. Feels weird. Still both are looking to be delayed
BrianDavion wrote: if it was a month or two behind the issue release it'd be better then just getting a WD subscription... which to my mind suggests they'll not do that
If it had everything prior, I don't even care about the current stuff.
some of the most recent issues do have some good lore, my issue is it's too spotty to warrent a subscription. some issues have absolutely fantastic stuff, other issues it's like "Here's some AOS stuff...... and we took some photos of 40k minis"
Argive wrote: Warhammer+ goes live on Wednesday the 25th of August, so save the date. The service launches with the following content:
Episodes 1-3 of the Warhammer animated anthology, Hammer and Bolter
Episode 1 of the Warhammer animation Angels of Death
Access to the Warhammer Vault
Premium access to the Warhammer 40,000: The App
Two episodes of Battle Report
Two episodes of Citadel Masterclass
More New Things Added Every Wednesday
I mean if you were already peying for the app I guess thats is a good way to be milked for a bit more.
The £10 is good and all, but I cant remember the last time I ordered anything directly from GW... Like 3rd poarty store give me up to 20% off as well as cheaper/ free P&P. I go into local store to pick up the occasional wash.paint and have a chat but that's literally it. Everyone I know orders from outsider stores or ebays/ trades. Our wargaming club gets additonal 2% off on top of any discount plus they get some sort of cut to help the club running. So I wouldn't even be able to/wiling spend the £10.
Im glad they clearly stated exactly what is involved in this and how the content will be updated (I guess one new episode of something every Wednesday?)
Hopefully we wont get a wave of people moaning how they signed up to this and how they feel robbed..
That's...thin. I note they don't confirm that the new content every Wednesday will be a new animated episode and could just as easily be a Lore video (seems to be the case from the article) or a batrep. From what they're offering the only things that I can see even possibly having any actual value would be the gift voucher, the "free" model and the animations. The value of the gift voucher is heavily diminished because you have to pay full retail at GW to redeem it. The "free" models are fine but really not my cup of tea and have alternatives available already. That leaves the animation, and a couple of hours of content at launch is just pitiful. There doesn't even seem to be any prospect of a large content dump at some point in the future, just a drip-feed of less than one new episode a week.
That's all assuming the launch actually goes to plan. Seems like a big assumption having seen what they did with the 40k app.
I figure GW will steadily monitor things like what people look at and how often. Things like adding more back-issues of WD is very likely to be something they steadily roll out. I'd wager they'll add them in yearly or half yearly blocks every so often as new content.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So there's an article on "Battle Report", which is a tremendously original title for their W+ battle report videos.
Here's their WIP table for the first one (DG vs Ultramarines):
First of all: I hope that's not it. Planet bowling ball is a bad start.
Secondly, it suddenly reminded me that every "Battle Report" is going to take place on a Realm of Battle board. Great...
sheesh, my own as of now (imo) sparsely decorated table in the making has more terrain in it than this?
Funny, I read the rest of the page and could see from the subsequent pictures that there is much more terrain after they have painted it.
You can see this is different from what is on the board above (Most of that is on the board, but only now is it in this set up.
Also the giant dais that Morty is standing on and can be seen in background of painted pictures is also not in the original picture as far as I can see.
Will it still be sparse? Maybe, I don't know, but using that before picture as proof that it will be sparse is a falacy.
If I was to guess, the first picture is the skeleton they worked from. Then they would have added around it after working out the armies and how to fit the armies on the table.
That is in the image isn't it? It's the right hand side. Although it looks like they've added in another corner of ruin.
Hopefully the overall table is better.
Something to consider is that the board is likely as purpose-made for this as the scenario and army lists. Ignoring for a moment the (entirely accurate) comments of this being a paid ad meant to show off the models rather than hide them behind scenery that have come up before and will surely do so again, the pictured Nurgle forces in the article seem quite substantial. I'd think there was a brief to make a board with lots of open ground to facilitate the narrative of a wave of Chaos worshippers breaking against an Imperial defense line. Add too much terrain and you run the risk of taking away the visual of a broad front and substitute it with small pockets and long columns of troops that will alter the feel of it entirely.
Remember this is supposed to be a "historical" recreation. Having the overall visual spectacle in line with that narrative will be of greater concern to the creators than how any individual parts look in isolation, and much more so than any rule or fairness concerns.
No idea if that makes for an exciting battle report, of course.
I think the Battle Reports will likely show off the "3 Ways to Play" thing. Narrative will seem super unfair but there will be rules and surprises, Open would be harder but might see things like 100 Poxwalkers vs 10 Space Marines, and obvs Matched will be regular stuff.
The upside is there isn't going to be a limitation on what armies we will be seeing since it is GW and the presenters will have access to not only their armies but studio armies as well, possibly even guests.
I am curious what format they take for the battle report though.
Highly edited? Very free form? Just telling us what's happening, or really hamming up the story?
Yea this seems more like a "let's put these models down on a the board and see what happens" thing.
We've gotten used to more or less competitive online battle reports where there is list building, tactics and actual choices being made because that's what's proven to be most popular I guess.
GW have stated that they will do all kinds of battle reports, including competitive ones (with if I recall correctly, specially invited guests). This is just a first introduction show for new players I would assume, featuring the poster armies from the previous edition of the game.
I'm totally down for fun narrative games from GW alongside competitive. I think fun narrative or just fun games in general are very important. I think its easy, with any hobby, to get focused on improving yourself and seeking competitive goals and achieving them and that's fantastic. However I think sometimes you've got to put that down and just do something "fun" or even just different.
Instead of two 2K balanced armies; throw one in at 2K and one in at infinite charging models or something to simulate a huge assault on a defensive position. Mess around with setups and the number of players - throw down 10 people on a table with their own mini-armies and see what happens etc..
I think those things are just as valuable as tight competitive armies and boards and balanced gameplay.
So yep I'd expect GW to show both serious and just narrative and fun stuff.
I'd like a mix TBH.
For Narrative games I'd prefer to see less dice rolling and more results. I don't need to see all the rolls each turn just the ones that matter or are particularly good/bad.
But for Matched Play, I can understand wanting to see the rolls more often.
Not sure I can ever get excited about a vouchers. The last one I got was $8, was issued Aug 6th, and expires August 31st.
Since I don't want to buy anything RIGHT NOW, it's going to expire - giving me nothing instead would have been a better move, since the tiny window to use the voucher actively annoyed me.
I assume Warhammer+ shows will be just like their video game licensing - the animated equivalent of tons of absolutely shoddy shovelware done on the cheap that tarnishes the brand. I'd love to be proven wrong on this.
They have the ability to tie in some of their animation/video with the battle reports if they really wanted to, just to increase production value, but you know that is not going to happen. For example, marine player puts down a drop pod or two....cut to the scene from the video game where drop pods are streaming down...then back to the battle report.
Show me a Heresy report, give me a Heresy miniature from FW and do a Heresy painting masterclass with Mark Bedford, and I’m in. Otherwise, it’s a hard pass.
CragHack wrote: Show me a Heresy report, give me a Heresy miniature from FW and do a Heresy painting masterclass with Mark Bedford, and I’m in. Otherwise, it’s a hard pass.
There's nothing to say that content like this isn't coming at some point in the future. Seems like a lot of folks are completely forgetting that you can subscribe to Warhammer+ for just a single month and then drop it if you don't like what you're getting. If the Heresy 2.0 rumors are remotely accurate then I'd completely expect GW to take advantage of Warhammer+ and push a lot of Horus Heresy content.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So there's an article on "Battle Report", which is a tremendously original title for their W+ battle report videos.
Here's their WIP table for the first one (DG vs Ultramarines):
First of all: I hope that's not it. Planet bowling ball is a bad start.
Secondly, it suddenly reminded me that every "Battle Report" is going to take place on a Realm of Battle board. Great...
Also that's apparently supposed to take place on a "Rural Agri-World". Because when i think of a Rural planet filled with farms, what i picture is an empty industrial street with metal tiling, with generators, pipes, Churches and also random trenches. Look at it, there's not a single speck of dirt on that board!
Gert wrote: Yeah no dirt on an unpainted board. Weird that.
I dunno man, i'd expect an Agri-World board to be majorly composed of y'know, dirt. Probably mostly composed of farms, with some trees and grass on the side, maybe some small rural buildings, maybe some quickly-dug trenches and fortifications.
Not this poor man's industrial sector GW is trying to peddle as a rural farm.
Farming would have huge areas of open fields - huge farming machines (titanic sized ones) as well as huge areas of processing and such. This area is likely a more urban region of the agriworld; so likely near to its landing and processing plants.
That is the factories that process the food into material to be shipped off world; the stores; the offworld landing pads; the generators and reactors to power everything.
Basically just because its an agriworld dedicated to food production, doesn't mean it wouldn't have any rural regions. Though I do 100% get your point and its yes very clear that this is a story built around the limits of the boards that GW currently designs.
Overread wrote: Farming would have huge areas of open fields - huge farming machines (titanic sized ones) as well as huge areas of processing and such. This area is likely a more urban region of the agriworld; so likely near to its landing and processing plants.
That is the factories that process the food into material to be shipped off world; the stores; the offworld landing pads; the generators and reactors to power everything.
Eh, fair enough, makes sense. Although it is still quite dissapointing.
I'm surprised they're using what looks to be a Studio army rather than 'Eavy Metal stuff to round out the 'official Games Workshop(tm) production' look, at least for the first episode.
Arbitrator wrote: I'm surprised they're using what looks to be a Studio army rather than 'Eavy Metal stuff to round out the 'official Games Workshop(tm) production' look, at least for the first episode.
Nick confirmed that he is using his own Ultramarines army for the Battle reports. He also mentioned someone else in the studio lending their army as well. It may well be they want to show off their own stuff or the Eavy Metal armies might not contain what they want for the battle report - they only paint so much and the hobby team do other stuff for the background of the pictures where the detail isn't as important - I remember Peachy mentioning that they skipped details that they knew wouldn't be seen from a distance.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So there's an article on "Battle Report", which is a tremendously original title for their W+ battle report videos.
Here's their WIP table for the first one (DG vs Ultramarines):
First of all: I hope that's not it. Planet bowling ball is a bad start.
Secondly, it suddenly reminded me that every "Battle Report" is going to take place on a Realm of Battle board. Great...
Also that's apparently supposed to take place on a "Rural Agri-World". Because when i think of a Rural planet filled with farms, what i picture is an empty industrial street with metal tiling, with generators, pipes, Churches and also random trenches. Look at it, there's not a single speck of dirt on that board!
Uuh...you weather your models before painting? Seeing paint covers it and you need weather again...whajt's the point?
You DO realize it's wip shot right? Nobody can miss that surely?
Again typical to you everything gw does is bad no matter what.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So there's an article on "Battle Report", which is a tremendously original title for their W+ battle report videos.
Here's their WIP table for the first one (DG vs Ultramarines):
First of all: I hope that's not it. Planet bowling ball is a bad start.
Secondly, it suddenly reminded me that every "Battle Report" is going to take place on a Realm of Battle board. Great...
Also that's apparently supposed to take place on a "Rural Agri-World". Because when i think of a Rural planet filled with farms, what i picture is an empty industrial street with metal tiling, with generators, pipes, Churches and also random trenches. Look at it, there's not a single speck of dirt on that board!
Uuh...you weather your models before painting? Seeing paint covers it and you need weather again...whajt's the point?
The point is not that they're supposed to be weathered, the point is that it's supposed to be a rural Agri-World, and it looks like a poor man's industrial sector. Let's see one of the first Google results for "Rural setting"
H.B.M.C. wrote: So there's an article on "Battle Report", which is a tremendously original title for their W+ battle report videos.
Here's their WIP table for the first one (DG vs Ultramarines):
First of all: I hope that's not it. Planet bowling ball is a bad start.
Secondly, it suddenly reminded me that every "Battle Report" is going to take place on a Realm of Battle board. Great...
Also that's apparently supposed to take place on a "Rural Agri-World". Because when i think of a Rural planet filled with farms, what i picture is an empty industrial street with metal tiling, with generators, pipes, Churches and also random trenches. Look at it, there's not a single speck of dirt on that board!
Uuh...you weather your models before painting? Seeing paint covers it and you need weather again...whajt's the point?
You DO realize it's wip shot right? Nobody can miss that surely?
Again typical to you everything gw does is bad no matter what.
yeah it's kinda absurd to complaina bout the board's colours given it's obvious it hasn't been painted yet.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So there's an article on "Battle Report", which is a tremendously original title for their W+ battle report videos.
Here's their WIP table for the first one (DG vs Ultramarines):
First of all: I hope that's not it. Planet bowling ball is a bad start.
Secondly, it suddenly reminded me that every "Battle Report" is going to take place on a Realm of Battle board. Great...
Also that's apparently supposed to take place on a "Rural Agri-World". Because when i think of a Rural planet filled with farms, what i picture is an empty industrial street with metal tiling, with generators, pipes, Churches and also random trenches. Look at it, there's not a single speck of dirt on that board!
Uuh...you weather your models before painting? Seeing paint covers it and you need weather again...whajt's the point?
You DO realize it's wip shot right? Nobody can miss that surely?
Again typical to you everything gw does is bad no matter what.
yeah it's kinda absurd to complaina bout the board's colours given it's obvious it hasn't been painted yet.
And i find it kinda absurd how everyone completly misses my entire point.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So there's an article on "Battle Report", which is a tremendously original title for their W+ battle report videos.
Here's their WIP table for the first one (DG vs Ultramarines):
First of all: I hope that's not it. Planet bowling ball is a bad start.
Secondly, it suddenly reminded me that every "Battle Report" is going to take place on a Realm of Battle board. Great...
Also that's apparently supposed to take place on a "Rural Agri-World". Because when i think of a Rural planet filled with farms, what i picture is an empty industrial street with metal tiling, with generators, pipes, Churches and also random trenches. Look at it, there's not a single speck of dirt on that board!
Uuh...you weather your models before painting? Seeing paint covers it and you need weather again...whajt's the point?
You DO realize it's wip shot right? Nobody can miss that surely?
Again typical to you everything gw does is bad no matter what.
yeah it's kinda absurd to complaina bout the board's colours given it's obvious it hasn't been painted yet.
And i find it kinda absurd how everyone completly misses my entire point.
your entire point is the same as it always is "GW BAD!"
This is an objectively bad terrain layout for a game of 9th edition 40k. It directly contradicts the instructions in the game manual regarding how a board is to be laid out.
I am all for playing out interesting narrative scenarios and so on. And in fact I think clever mission design using a variety of different board layouts/scenarios may be the best way to "balance" 40k as a competitive game.
But no matter how you slice it, there is no obscuring terrain that crosses any of the main firing lines.
People just love to do the Emperor's New Clothes routine when ever GW does something that is simply bad or poorly thought out. Very amusing.
Let's make a bet that GW will release an official 40k Emperor's Tarot deck based on the internationally popular Hammer and Bolter series. It will be filled with beautiful art and proprietary card names to confuse experienced Tarot readers and to make sure nobody copies it without getting sued. It will retail for $65 and come with an exclusive wafer.
Here's a more appropriate real world equivalent of the Mudanjiang City Mega Farm in China and it's still nowhere near as large as what an Agri-World would be
I also don't think it's controversial to say that that board is not really evocative of an agri-world, even if you imagine the board painted the right way. Where are the grain elevators, the silos, all the gizmos and contraptions? Yeah, I know GW doesn't make kits of those things so of course we're not going to see them. But the Sector Mechanicus stuff (that big scaffolding piece, the crane, etc.) seems like it would evoke the mechanical part of an agri-world reasonably well.
Eh, this all feels like a moot point. I don't think anybody has high expectations for the Battle Report component of WH+, it's almost not worth talking about.
For curiosity's sake, I went to Lexicanum to see what it had to say about the planet Iax.
Iax was an Agri World whose climate and fertility has made it one of the most productive worlds in the Imperium. There were no large cities on Iax, its land given over to producing quality food. The oldest and most urbanised area is the ancient fortress city of First Landing, its tall citadel withstanding the barrages of invaders over the centuries.
During the Plague Wars, Iax became the site of major fighting. A group of Imperial Guard refugees brought to Iax were revealed to be unwitting Daemonic vessels, transforming them into Plaguebearers who managed to summon a cohort of Great Unclean Ones under Ku'gath. The Daemons summoned vast armies which ravaged the planet.Later, Roboute Guilliman and Mortarion engaged in a fateful duel on the planet as Imperial forces enacted Exterminatus. It is now a Death World which according to Guilliman will take centuries to be freed of corruption, if ever.
Warhammer Community wrote:One of the first Battle Reports sees the Ultramarines face off against the Death Guard at the climactic Battle of Iax. The team created a specially designed scenario in which two Primarchs face off for the fate of the Imperium itself.
Apparently the book "Godblight" details the events that they're playing out here?
BrianDavion wrote: your entire point is the same as it always is "GW BAD!"
His point is quite obviously that it's meant to be an Agri-World but the board, even unpainted, is very obviously urban/Sector Imperialis(tm) terrain. You don't exactly have to squint to see it's not in fields or a processing plant.
Of course there's Agri-Worlds with cities and factories and the like, but it's an odd callout to say "It's an Agri-World!" and then put it on every other GW-approved board.
BrianDavion wrote: your entire point is the same as it always is "GW BAD!"
His point is quite obviously that it's meant to be an Agri-World but the board, even unpainted, is very obviously urban/Sector Imperialis(tm) terrain. You don't exactly have to squint to see it's not in fields or a processing plant.
So how does an Agri-World get their produce off planet? Even an Agri-World is going to need a starport and since it's been confirmed this is the Battle of Iax, the choice of game board is appropriate.
They don't have agri-world terrain to sell you. They do have their usual terrain to sell you. The whole thing is an advertisement you pay to watch. They're not going to advertise things you can't buy.
It’s…..it’s almost as if they’re a company, in the business of making as much money as possible, looking to show off all their goods in the best possible light.
Those children born outside of wedlock!! We certainly don’t see such behaviour anywhere else….
I'm not so sure battle reports really show GW products off very well to be honest. GW's strategy used to be setting up shop in malls trying to lure suckers into exchanging their just received paycheque for some space marines and paints, only for the consumer to go home and sort of put some of them together and realize what a hassle it all is and then give up.
When the non-converted to wargaming actually watch an Official Shiny GW battle report with all the BS strategems and obscure rule gibberish and tedious listing of weapons profiles, I think your average fence-sitter about whether to invest in GW models will say "this game looks boring and stupid". You can sell the models easily, but the game system....is rather ugly.
People who aren't yet in the hobby obviously aren't going to be paying 6 bucks a month to be advertised to. The advertisements are going to be aimed at existing GW customers. Terrain is something GW has consistently struggled to sell to anywhere near the same volume as their miniatures. A big part - probably the main part - of these battle report shows is to get you to buy GW-branded terrain to go with your GW-branded miniatures.
Yeah……gonna need a citation for your claim their terrain kits struggle compared to their other offerings.
I mean, they don’t break it down on their own annual results, or even 6 month results. So gonna have to be a really well cited citation for your claim their fella.
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Gregor Samsa wrote: I'm not so sure battle reports really show GW products off very well to be honest. GW's strategy used to be setting up shop in malls trying to lure suckers into exchanging their just received paycheque for some space marines and paints, only for the consumer to go home and sort of put some of them together and realize what a hassle it all is and then give up.
When the non-converted to wargaming actually watch an Official Shiny GW battle report with all the BS strategems and obscure rule gibberish and tedious listing of weapons profiles, I think your average fence-sitter about whether to invest in GW models will say "this game looks boring and stupid". You can sell the models easily, but the game system....is rather ugly.
Aaaaaaaaaand a citation for this.
Grasp this in your cerebral tentacle, if you will.
GW = Biggest fish in the pond. GW are also the only fish in the pond with a substantial chain of their own shops, which offer intros and support to all levels of participants.
All you need to do is look at their offerings. It's not just some big coincidence that the have dozens of miniature ranges each consisting of dozens of kits, but only very limited terrain offerings, with typically a handful of pieces in each one.
Or look at anybody around you in the hobby. How many more people have GW miniatures than have GW terrain? It's probably 10:1 at least, if not more. For every guy with a complete set of sector mechanicus terrain there's probably 15 or 20 guys with genuine GW miniatures who don't own any GW terrain at all.
GW has a virutal monopoly on the miniatures used in its games (recasting and third party miniatures probably account for about 20% of the market, if that). But it's got nowhere near that grip on terrain used in its games. And youtube channels don't typically use GW terrain either, and they certainly don't use it exclusively. The biggest advantage of GW running its own battle reports is it gets you advertise its terrain to you. Tabletop Titans does a great job of selling GW miniatures for GW, but it does very little to sell GW terrain.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: It’s…..it’s almost as if they’re a company, in the business of making as much money as possible, looking to show off all their goods in the best possible light.
Sure. But they control every aspect of this product (Battle Report) They did NOT have to set it on an agri-world. Yes, agri-worlds have cities, but the thing that makes them interesting is that they're essentially massive farms. Which we don't get to see, we get to see a city/ruined industrial facility. Why even draw attention to the fact it's an agri-world if you know you can't show us anything remotely...agri?
That's just a conflict between the lore and the reality of GW's business. The lore says its an agriworld, so it's an agriworld. But GW doesn't produce any agriworld terrain, so they can't make it actually look like an agriworld, because then they can't sell you what they're advertising to you.
It is what it is. It's also why GW-produced battle reports are not going to be very interesting aesthetically. They're limited to just using what GW can sell you. Youtube channels can do all sorts of more interesting stuff because their purpose is to attract viewers, not to push GW's terrain line.
Yeah... I don't see their terrain doing that well in the grand scheme of things. I feel like most people know more about/of things like model train railways than wargaming, wherein their tables are largely flock and bits of rock.
GW terrain isn't cheap, even by the most expensive standards of the hobby. The only places I've seen full blown boards made exclusively of GW stuff - even if it's just the buildings and not the boards/mats - are GW stores and the very occasional 40k-only Youtuber who tend to be mouthpieces for the company and desperate to be noticed however they can.
When even Lil Timmy probably recognises he can spray paint some used soda bottles and boxes for crates, rip apart some cardboard or hard foam for rubble and buildings, etc and spend his money on some more models he's probably going to do that. Most people also play at LFGS' where they usually provide the terrain in place of paying for a table (if that) which is even less incentive.
Terrain obviously sells well enough for GW to keep pumping it out semi-regularly, but compared to everything else it's probably way, way down there in terms of what's selling. I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption most people would rather buy new models/rules/paints over terrain and if you're hardcore enough to be into terrain/board building, you're probably looking to build from third parties anyway when GW's offerings are so limited.
They tried to push their own branded terrain with special rules in that book at the start of 9th edition that flopped so unbelievably hard that nobody even remembers it ever existed. It's clearly both something they're interested in doing - you don't put out a special book like that if you aren't - and something they're struggling with executing on.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: It’s…..it’s almost as if they’re a company, in the business of making as much money as possible, looking to show off all their goods in the best possible light.
Sure. But they control every aspect of this product (Battle Report) They did NOT have to set it on an agri-world. Yes, agri-worlds have cities, but the thing that makes them interesting is that they're essentially massive farms. Which we don't get to see, we get to see a city/ruined industrial facility. Why even draw attention to the fact it's an agri-world if you know you can't show us anything remotely...agri?
Because Ro-Billybob Guilliman doesn't sit on a porch in a rocking chair with his heavy bolter across his lap telling them nasty nuglings to keep out his crops.
He lands armies, armies need infrastructure, supplies, shockingly, yes, roads and buildings. Would you believe the people need to live somewhere, have communal congregations as well.
Mortarion doesn't subdue a populace by hiding in a grain silo away from major population centres. He needs to overthrow the local military and government.
Army > lands in built up area with infrastructure > majority of population in area with built up infrastructure > mortarion needs to overthrow local populace > mortarion goes to built up area.
Yes it would be fun to see a huge agricultural machine and have the entire board be obscuring and max range of 3" weapons due to the 30' tall super crops while troops take pot shots at each other off barn roofs and silos, because ofc that's entirely normal. But instead they opted to have a historical battle between 2 characters in a sensible location.
So when are you guys buying your high quality, plastic, modular gaming surface for Warhammer 40,000? It is made from the same plastic as your Citadel miniatures, and each of the six 2’ x 2’ tile sections can be painted in exactly the same way as the rest of your miniature collection.
There are two tile designs in the set, three of each, which are inspired by the war torn streets of an Imperial city. They can be arranged in any number of different ways to produce an almost endless variety of combinations, with streets large enough to accommodate a Baneblade!
H.B.M.C. wrote: So there's an article on "Battle Report", which is a tremendously original title for their W+ battle report videos.
Here's their WIP table for the first one (DG vs Ultramarines):
First of all: I hope that's not it. Planet bowling ball is a bad start.
Secondly, it suddenly reminded me that every "Battle Report" is going to take place on a Realm of Battle board. Great...
Also that's apparently supposed to take place on a "Rural Agri-World". Because when i think of a Rural planet filled with farms, what i picture is an empty industrial street with metal tiling, with generators, pipes, Churches and also random trenches. Look at it, there's not a single speck of dirt on that board!
Uuh...you weather your models before painting? Seeing paint covers it and you need weather again...whajt's the point?
You DO realize it's wip shot right? Nobody can miss that surely?
Again typical to you everything gw does is bad no matter what.
yeah it's kinda absurd to complaina bout the board's colours given it's obvious it hasn't been painted yet.
And i find it kinda absurd how everyone completly misses my entire point.
your entire point is the same as it always is "GW BAD!"
Point is GW decided to make their paid Battle Report said on an Agri-World and then decided to not make their board look like an Agri-World. Pretty straightforward.
Yes it would be fun to see a huge agricultural machine and have the entire board be obscuring and max range of 3" weapons due to the 30' tall super crops while troops take pot shots at each other off barn roofs and silos, because ofc that's entirely normal.
That would actually be interesting and something different than what you can already get on youtube for free. I'd love to see GW actually take W+ seriously that way and really push out the boundaries of the game both visually and in terms of gameplay, not just use it as a glorified advertising platform for their plastic. But it'll never happen.
Dudeface wrote: Yes it would be fun to see a huge agricultural machine and have the entire board be obscuring and max range of 3" weapons due to the 30' tall super crops while troops take pot shots at each other off barn roofs and silos, because ofc that's entirely normal. But instead they opted to have a historical battle between 2 characters in a sensible location.
I mean... I get you're trying to be mocking and all, but... I'd rather watch that?
Dudeface wrote: Yes it would be fun to see a huge agricultural machine and have the entire board be obscuring and max range of 3" weapons due to the 30' tall super crops while troops take pot shots at each other off barn roofs and silos, because ofc that's entirely normal. But instead they opted to have a historical battle between 2 characters in a sensible location.
It would be a diffrent, possibly more enjoyable experience than what you can get on YouTube for free so...
yukishiro1 wrote: That's just a conflict between the lore and the reality of GW's business. The lore says its an agriworld, so it's an agriworld. But GW doesn't produce any agriworld terrain, so they can't make it actually look like an agriworld, because then they can't sell you what they're advertising to you.
This right here. WH+ is sort of funny if you compare it to Hasbro cartoons in the 1980s which were essentially a vehicle to create hype and demand for a toy line. White dwarf is already 75% advertising, this is just the next evolution of that idea.
It really makes me miss when GW was more about the hobby at large and not just the Games Workshop Hobby of buying their products and assembling them with their supporting products.
Oguhmek wrote: Yea this seems more like a "let's put these models down on a the board and see what happens" thing.
Well, except the article specifically states it isn't.
WarCom wrote:James: Our gaming presenter, Patrick, who you’ll get to know very well in the coming months, chose this particular battle. He spent a lot of time preparing everything – researching the setting, writing the army lists, and coming up with a suitable mission to play.
He then drew a sketch of how he saw the armies interacting with the scenery to recreate the clash as closely as possible. This gave the team a strong start from which we could use our modelling experience and knowledge of the Warhammer 40,000 terrain range to bring the battlefield to life.
This is the standard 'built historical encounter' type battlereport that used to feature in WD, where they prep heavily and spend time replaying until they get a suitably 'cinematic' result.
Its very much the opposite of 'put models down and see what happens'
I gotta say, GW making people angry at them results in so much earned advertising that it's hard to argue with.
That they as a company are so straightjacketed by their own corporate fear they can't have some pros break out the foam, balsa wood, and bits box to make an awesome bespoke board that looks like an agri-world, really speaks to how they are just waiting for their iceberg to appear in front of them and end it all, but until then, they're cranking out products and raking in cash. Mediocre cartoons, painting videos, and battle reports, included.
Here is the part of the app that I can’t wait to become reality for GW. No matter how hard certain people white Knight for GW, they can only buy the sub once. There is no pile of shame FOMO driven wife aggro producing stack of boxes.
There are no whales for this. When this fact sinks in, prepare for the insanity of massive in app purchases for all the things.
If they stick to narrative open play style bat reps I think it would work for them..
I don't see them doing any matched play "semi competitive" bat reps though... They seem to pretend nobody plays Warhammer like that and I see no reason why they'd change now
frankelee wrote: I gotta say, GW making people angry at them results in so much earned advertising that it's hard to argue with.
That they as a company are so straightjacketed by their own corporate fear they can't have some pros break out the foam, balsa wood, and bits box to make an awesome bespoke board that looks like an agri-world, really speaks to how they are just waiting for their iceberg to appear in front of them and end it all, but until then, they're cranking out products and raking in cash. Mediocre cartoons, painting videos, and battle reports, included.
GW makes custom terrain all the time. The problem is it often ends up with people going "Ohh is that going to be a model for us."
They had it with Ossiarchs and their wall and gate house; they had it with necrons and their terrain features there (that open pylon top off an obilisk).
So GW do do their own terrain, it just tends to result in people wanting to buy it. So why not follow that and generally show terrain that customers CAN buy.
caladancid wrote: There are no whales for this. When this fact sinks in, prepare for the insanity of massive in app purchases for all the things.
Eh, just you wait. If they're smart, they'll find a way. People buy their limited edition codex books with different covers and free 30 cent trinkets. They know their low-impulse control audience.
yukishiro1 wrote: That's just a conflict between the lore and the reality of GW's business. The lore says its an agriworld, so it's an agriworld. But GW doesn't produce any agriworld terrain, so they can't make it actually look like an agriworld, because then they can't sell you what they're advertising to you.
Nonsense. This battle is quite clearly taking place on the outskirts of a massive farm growing gothinium, an important protein crop that in its immature stages resembles gothic ruins...
What’s the cover save for Corn again? Corn the edible stuff, not hiding behind Khorne just to be clear.
I mean they could have fields and silos with a baneblade or Khornmower converted into Combines, but a farm field isn’t more of a thing I think of for a WWII battlefield. This is obviously still WIP as it was stated. They can still add more buildings which the newer picture shows as happening, and they can add blown up tanks and destroyed Titans for cover. If they release videos of how they build the table for gameplay and how you can change stuff around that will be a great advertisement for them.
Sadly some just want to see the finished product already and are going to criticize everything that they haven’t seen yet.
Theophony wrote: What’s the cover save for Corn again? Corn the edible stuff, not hiding behind Khorne just to be clear.
I mean they could have fields and silos with a baneblade or Khornmower converted into Combines, but a farm field isn’t more of a thing I think of for a WWII battlefield. This is obviously still WIP as it was stated. They can still add more buildings which the newer picture shows as happening, and they can add blown up tanks and destroyed Titans for cover. If they release videos of how they build the table for gameplay and how you can change stuff around that will be a great advertisement for them.
Sadly some just want to see the finished product already and are going to criticize everything that they haven’t seen yet.
Now I want to see a Lord of Skulls with a threasher on the front, the blood silos on the back full of grain, a big straw hat, and chewing on a haystalk.
Arbitrator wrote: The only places I've seen full blown boards made exclusively of GW stuff - even if it's just the buildings and not the boards/mats - are GW stores and the very occasional 40k-only Youtuber who tend to be mouthpieces for the company and desperate to be noticed however they can.
I could probably do it.
Arbitrator wrote: ... and if you're hardcore enough to be into terrain/board building, you're probably looking to build from third parties anyway when GW's offerings are so limited.
This much I'll say is true. GW is mostly limited to various ruins, mostly of whatever the "good guy human" faction is for their particular game. In fantasy it was plastic medieval buildings and the odd stonehenge-y temple. For AoS it's just various very very busy ruins. For 40k it's been four distinct flavours of Imperial ruins, with the odd smattering of other things here and there. There's a distinct lack of natural terrain. They stopped selling hills a long time ago (no, those horrible Realm of Battle boards do not count), and they have a single remaining tree kit. I've had to go to places like Gamemat.eu and Gale Force 9 to get desert terrain, martian terrain, rocks, rivers and trees.
The other added problem is that GW seems to take their terrain out of production almost at random, and always without any warning. Ryza Pattern ruins vanished one day. Pretty soon after that almost all the Sector Imperialis stuff disappeared into the ether. Will it come back? Who knows!!! I doubt it, given that GW's current terrain offerings (the Vertigus stuff, the new Ork stuff) fit very well with their current miniature design (no modularity, no expandability - just set kits with set configurations and very little customisability, if any). I'm surprised the Skyshield and Void Shield Generator are still on sale.
I'm worried that the Dominion of Sigmar stuff will be the next to go. I can't find this on the GW website anymore. Or the Hallowed Stormthrone. And if they do go, we'll get no notice. One day they just won't be there anymore.
Overread wrote: GW makes custom terrain all the time. The problem is it often ends up with people going "Ohh is that going to be a model for us." They had it with Ossiarchs and their wall and gate house; they had it with necrons and their terrain features there (that open pylon top off an obilisk).
So GW do do their own terrain, it just tends to result in people wanting to buy it. So why not follow that and generally show terrain that customers CAN buy.
That almost sounds like a roundabout way of blaming the players. "We'd do more custom boards if not for everyone asking for it!".
I've already said that this board has one Kan. We don't need a second, Overread.
Gert wrote: Yeah no dirt on an unpainted board. Weird that.
tneva82 wrote: Uuh...you weather your models before painting? Seeing paint covers it and you need weather again...whajt's the point?
BrianDavion wrote: yeah it's kinda absurd to complaina bout the board's colours given it's obvious it hasn't been painted yet.
I can't believe that three people in a row completely missed Wha's point about this city board looking nothing like what people might find on your typical agri-world. It's like you were trying to just have a go at him directly, so intentionally ignored what he said.
caladancid wrote: There are no whales for this. When this fact sinks in, prepare for the insanity of massive in app purchases for all the things.
Eh, just you wait. If they're smart, they'll find a way. People buy their limited edition codex books with different covers and free 30 cent trinkets. They know their low-impulse control audience.
Seems like you two are agreeing with extra steps.
Right now, people cannot be whales because there is nothing to purchase for Warhammer+ beyond the initial subscription.
But you can bet GW is going to change that real fast, and then we'll see people lining up for that digital plastic crack.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So there's an article on "Battle Report", which is a tremendously original title for their W+ battle report videos.
Here's their WIP table for the first one (DG vs Ultramarines):
First of all: I hope that's not it. Planet bowling ball is a bad start.
Secondly, it suddenly reminded me that every "Battle Report" is going to take place on a Realm of Battle board. Great...
The other pictures towards the end of that article look much better, although it's not really possible to see all the details with the shots they used.
They probably shouldn't have led off with a plain grey board and sand, but we all know their marketing folks aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.
Seems like their terrain artist did good work on it though.
Overread wrote: GW makes custom terrain all the time. The problem is it often ends up with people going "Ohh is that going to be a model for us." They had it with Ossiarchs and their wall and gate house; they had it with necrons and their terrain features there (that open pylon top off an obilisk).
So GW do do their own terrain, it just tends to result in people wanting to buy it. So why not follow that and generally show terrain that customers CAN buy.
That almost sounds like a roundabout way of blaming the players. "We'd do more custom boards if not for everyone asking for it!".
I've already said that this board has one Kan. We don't need a second, Overread.
I'm not saying its the "customers fault". I'm saying that when GW shows off custom, unique terrain features, people do ask when/if they will be able to buy them. There's clearly market interest, so it makes sense for GW to display more of their own kits (and they do have a good few of them now) in their promotional and display material.
And as I noted GW DO show off custom stuff, chances are we'll see it appear in future videos and displays, just not this first video. At least so far as we've seen from the preview of the board.
caladancid wrote:And then we will have people like Overread telling us what a great deal that is, after telling us what a great it was when it was free!! Can't wait!
Wait go back to when GW was giving promotional models and animations away for free? Or back access to White Dwarf?
Sure battlereports and painting tutorials were free in the past, app access has been hit and miss (The AoS one was free, the 40K one was paid). Free is good, but that doesn't mean that Warhammer + can't offer good value for money. Perhaps not on day one and perhaps for some they'll just subscribe for a month - drop it and then subscribe again once every few months for a few videos they want to see or such. GW clearly wants you to stay subscribed, but you'll like as not totally be able to drop in and out.
Yes you won't get the same bonuses - I suspect most vouchers will be linked ot subscription times and the models are tied to a full 12 month period.
caladancid wrote:And then we will have people like Overread telling us what a great deal that is, after telling us what a great it was when it was free!! Can't wait!
Wait go back to when GW was giving promotional models and animations away for free? Or back access to White Dwarf?
Sure battlereports and painting tutorials were free in the past, app access has been hit and miss (The AoS one was free, the 40K one was paid). Free is good, but that doesn't mean that Warhammer + can't offer good value for money. Perhaps not on day one and perhaps for some they'll just subscribe for a month - drop it and then subscribe again once every few months for a few videos they want to see or such. GW clearly wants you to stay subscribed, but you'll like as not totally be able to drop in and out.
Yes you won't get the same bonuses - I suspect most vouchers will be linked ot subscription times and the models are tied to a full 12 month period.
My read is: he's saying you'll be ready in the bullpen to defend whatever in-app purchases GW institutes once they decide it's time to turn on the Warhammer+ revenue hose.
After a short read of your comments in this thread, that seems like a fair and valid assumption to make.
I should have made it extra clear the free was within the idea that you are ALREADY paying for the app, I thought that was self evident.
The point here should be quite obvious. A select group of people is determined to not ask GW to be a reasonable, respectful business to its customers. Those same people make up ANY sort of reason to post about how we should grin and ask how high. This hurts the hobby. The way I am proving this point right now is that that same select group of people, who are substantively making the hobby worse long term, are pre-supportive of the idea that GW would charge you extra for content in the app after telling us that charging for the app was fine because of all the good free content.
caladancid wrote: Here is the part of the app that I can’t wait to become reality for GW. No matter how hard certain people white Knight for GW, they can only buy the sub once. There is no pile of shame FOMO driven wife aggro producing stack of boxes.
There are no whales for this. When this fact sinks in, prepare for the insanity of massive in app purchases for all the things.
People will buy multiple subscriptions so they can get the 'free' model multiple times.
yukishiro1 wrote: That's just a conflict between the lore and the reality of GW's business. The lore says its an agriworld, so it's an agriworld. But GW doesn't produce any agriworld terrain, so they can't make it actually look like an agriworld, because then they can't sell you what they're advertising to you.
Nonsense. This battle is quite clearly taking place on the outskirts of a massive farm growing gothinium, an important protein crop that in its immature stages resembles gothic ruins...
It's brilliant. Just think how much they could charge for the fully mature gothinium stalk.
caladancid wrote: Here is the part of the app that I can’t wait to become reality for GW. No matter how hard certain people white Knight for GW, they can only buy the sub once. There is no pile of shame FOMO driven wife aggro producing stack of boxes.
There are no whales for this. When this fact sinks in, prepare for the insanity of massive in app purchases for all the things.
People will buy multiple subscriptions so they can get the 'free' model multiple times.
Or they will be able to buy a chinacast copy a week after the model is in the hands of consumers.
I have seen models available for ordering within a couple days of being put on pre-order on GW website.
As said by others , bit of a miss that this is supposed to be an agri-world. If they only restrict to gw.kits for terrain, most of these battle report ate going to be really bland, at.least visually
Theophony wrote: I mean they could have fields and silos with a baneblade or Khornmower converted into Combines, but a farm field isn’t more of a thing I think of for a WWII battlefield. This is obviously still WIP as it was stated. They can still add more buildings which the newer picture shows as happening, and they can add blown up tanks and destroyed Titans for cover. If they release videos of how they build the table for gameplay and how you can change stuff around that will be a great advertisement for them.
Sure, that's why WWII miniature games manufacturers never bother making rural scenery (specifically, farms) to sell...
It's really impressive the parts of the miniature wargaming industry that GW pretends don't exist. When it comes to battle reports, one of the best things for me is seeing the table. IMO, Tabletop Tactics, StrikingScorpion82, and WintersSEO (all on youtube) do this the best, with smatterings of rocks and a healthy mix of GW and other company terrain, all painted well and to the same standard so they mix well together.
ON TOP OF THAT they use gaming mats of all different types, and the mat really helps each battlefield feel distinct, even if it's the same terrain on top of it. Just having a different color, from desert, city, or martian landscape, underneath the same buildings creates some much more visually interesting things.
GW used to sell gamemats. They were 4x4, and there were 2 of them that I remember, and they were both impossibly busy. One was a giant chaos star taking up half the board, and what the heck kind of terrain makes sense sitting on top of a giant lava chaos star? To nobody's surprise, they stopped making those, despite game mats made of that mousepad material being industry standard across the rest of miniature wargaming.
Now, they're trying to sell us on these cardboard fold-out boards. After about 3-4 uses, the cardboard tends to start to rip if you're not really careful, and the folding lines are just meh. BUT YOU CAN FIT 4 OF THEM TOGETHER.
Good lord, just get a gaming mat. What grinds my gears is that you can't even bring a game mat into a GW store or the Citadel or anything and expect to play on it. It's all gotta be 100% GW's sad attempt to reinvent the wheel on stuff that already makes sense.
BrianDavion wrote: your entire point is the same as it always is "GW BAD!"
His point is quite obviously that it's meant to be an Agri-World but the board, even unpainted, is very obviously urban/Sector Imperialis(tm) terrain. You don't exactly have to squint to see it's not in fields or a processing plant.
Of course there's Agri-Worlds with cities and factories and the like, but it's an odd callout to say "It's an Agri-World!" and then put it on every other GW-approved board.
the world in question is Iax yes, however the action all took place at the seige of a spaceport which was the IoM's last real bastion on the world, Iax was by that time defacto a deamon world.
this is all made clear if ya you know read Godblight
drbored wrote: It's really impressive the parts of the miniature wargaming industry that GW pretends don't exist. When it comes to battle reports, one of the best things for me is seeing the table. IMO, Tabletop Tactics, StrikingScorpion82, and WintersSEO (all on youtube) do this the best, with smatterings of rocks and a healthy mix of GW and other company terrain, all painted well and to the same standard so they mix well together.
ON TOP OF THAT they use gaming mats of all different types, and the mat really helps each battlefield feel distinct, even if it's the same terrain on top of it. Just having a different color, from desert, city, or martian landscape, underneath the same buildings creates some much more visually interesting things.
GW used to sell gamemats. They were 4x4, and there were 2 of them that I remember, and they were both impossibly busy. One was a giant chaos star taking up half the board, and what the heck kind of terrain makes sense sitting on top of a giant lava chaos star? To nobody's surprise, they stopped making those, despite game mats made of that mousepad material being industry standard across the rest of miniature wargaming.
Now, they're trying to sell us on these cardboard fold-out boards. After about 3-4 uses, the cardboard tends to start to rip if you're not really careful, and the folding lines are just meh. BUT YOU CAN FIT 4 OF THEM TOGETHER.
Good lord, just get a gaming mat. What grinds my gears is that you can't even bring a game mat into a GW store or the Citadel or anything and expect to play on it. It's all gotta be 100% GW's sad attempt to reinvent the wheel on stuff that already makes sense.
Yeah, that's one of the part of nuGW that i hate the most. Completely removed the diy part of the hobby and almost only showing GW produced terrain. Which is kind of sad considering that old WD were having articles showing how to make some terrain
This is the internet, the point of a discussion is to look for a way to prove the other guy wrong.
I agree with Wha-Mu though. This is an industrial board, or an urban one. It is not a rural board and paint can't fix that (indeed you can see pictures of the finished product as well and it didn't change much).
This is an odd board for something set on an agri world. It is very clearly made to show off the current Realm of Battle board, since GW doesn't presently sell an appropriate rural board.
I'm sure in the narrative this will be occuring in the capitol city of the world or something, but that seems like a justification after the fact to me.
EDIT: I appear to have missed a page and am responding to an old topic
The weirdest thing is they had free rein to choose whatever scenario they wanted but ended up choosing something that, in many people's minds, doesn't make sense. They also had the opportunity to show off a cool custom table for an agri-world but instead we get industrial gothic again. Yes, I get that Iax had at least one major settlement but I'm talking about the images conjured up when people think of an agri-world. This ain't it.
I'm pretty sure GW could have put together a pretty cool agri-world board using their Ad Mech terrain sets and a few choice pieces from other kits they produce. There are silo-like elements there and bits of machinery that could easily be slightly converted to make them look more agricultural than industrial. They don't have to go outside the GW ecosystem to do it but it would actually demonstrate a lot more creativity in their approach than they used here.
caladancid wrote:And then we will have people like Overread telling us what a great deal that is, after telling us what a great it was when it was free!! Can't wait!
Wait go back to when GW was giving promotional models and animations away for free? Or back access to White Dwarf?
Sure battlereports and painting tutorials were free in the past, app access has been hit and miss (The AoS one was free, the 40K one was paid). Free is good, but that doesn't mean that Warhammer + can't offer good value for money. Perhaps not on day one and perhaps for some they'll just subscribe for a month - drop it and then subscribe again once every few months for a few videos they want to see or such. GW clearly wants you to stay subscribed, but you'll like as not totally be able to drop in and out.
Yes you won't get the same bonuses - I suspect most vouchers will be linked ot subscription times and the models are tied to a full 12 month period.
My read is: he's saying you'll be ready in the bullpen to defend whatever in-app purchases GW institutes once they decide it's time to turn on the Warhammer+ revenue hose.
After a short read of your comments in this thread, that seems like a fair and valid assumption to make.
I mean you did see me complaining about AoS right? At launch?
Granted, if I recall right, I had some of the "this can't really be it can it, rules must be around the next corner right"? Because of how outlandishly strange the whole AoS launch was?
Or my regular "darn it GW stop doing one short print run of your lore/art books"
Or the "darn it £40 for cavalry is too much I don't like this price" even though I still (through 3rd parties so with discount) bought some (which in some way invalidates my viewpoint I agree).
I use the fold out cardboard boards quite a lot, as they're what my university has.
They're not terrible, they're quite durable and we've had no issues in that regard. The double sided-ness is also quite nice and they're easier to pack away and store than the mouse-mat stuff used at another club (flat cuboid vs long floppy cylinder).
But having to join multiple to make a table is annoying as they always shift during a game.
But overall I think they are a good product that have advantages over mousemats.
Almost all the other GW terrain I see is horrendous though. Those high raised gantries with thin spindly legs are the worst. You can fill a table with those and you still end up with what is effectively an open field with shooting roosts that are very difficult to reach with melee units.
But the process is very intransparent. I would never have thought that I have to memorize this obscure website in order to unlock the app. Perhaps they can't directly link from the app because they want to avoid the Playstore/iTunes tax, but this will cost this service a lot of its initial steam.
I've just signed up, oddly my 40k app doesn't unlock for me and just spins on the authenticator, but likewise acknowledges that I have a valid subscription if I try and proceed down that avenue. I wasn't a current subscriber worth noting.
I'm sure in the narrative this will be occuring in the capitol city of the world or something, but that seems like a justification after the fact to me.
It's very much not after the fact though, because there's a novel that came out months ago so was written months before that, that has this battle in it, and it happens in an industrial area of the capital. Like, we're not making this up, but if it was set in farmland people would be complaining it looks nothing like the setting described in Godblight and one part of GW has no idea what the other is doing.
Would a rural battle of been cooler? Absolutely. But this is literally their first WHTV battle report. Something a bit more traditional is fair enough. Plus, what rural battle would you choose? There's not many. I mean, there's not many rural worlds to start with and when people fight over them, they're fighting for control over the spaceport or governmental buildings. I mean this isn't just 40K, it's the real world too. You don't see many clashes between armies out in fields these days! Plus they clearly wanted to do a Primarch duel as that's the "cool" bit they're doing with this report, so your options are even more limited. Especially as Heresy is a different ruleset.
I can see why people are reading "agri-world" and going "well it's not very green" but they're getting hung up on one word.
I'm sure in the narrative this will be occuring in the capitol city of the world or something, but that seems like a justification after the fact to me.
It's very much not after the fact though, because there's a novel that came out months ago so was written months before that, that has this battle in it, and it happens in an industrial area of the capital. Like, we're not making this up, but if it was set in farmland people would be complaining it looks nothing like the setting described in Godblight and one part of GW has no idea what the other is doing.
Would a rural battle of been cooler? Absolutely. But this is literally their first WHTV battle report. Something a bit more traditional is fair enough. Plus, what rural battle would you choose? There's not many. I mean, there's not many rural worlds to start with and when people fight over them, they're fighting for control over the spaceport or governmental buildings. I mean this isn't just 40K, it's the real world too. You don't see many clashes between armies out in fields these days! Plus they clearly wanted to do a Primarch duel as that's the "cool" bit they're doing with this report, so your options are even more limited. Especially as Heresy is a different ruleset.
I can see why people are reading "agri-world" and going "well it's not very green" but they're getting hung up on one word.
I think people only went to the agri world since the table looks rather meh, using the rather meh GW terrain and not even making anything good with it.
Also it looks like this is not the batrep up already, we have to wait for there batrep feature. Not a good look.
I'd bet the unpainted, unfinished table would have looked way worse if it was scratch built rather than using GW stuff. All shoeboxes and soda bottles!
The terrain is meh, and people went to the what type it should be to seeing that it doesn’t really have the feel that the setting invokes. It’s another city battle, on GW City terrain.
The setting details are Irrelevant to a great portion of the audience.
They selling a feature board here for a feature batrep. Advertisement for a new subscription is important, but I guess it’s a good mark for expectations.
Probably way to harsh wording, I am sorry >.< taken out the first bit.
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deano2099 wrote: I'd bet the unpainted, unfinished table would have looked way worse if it was scratch built rather than using GW stuff. All shoeboxes and soda bottles!
That would have been awesome, seeing how it all comes together with the old school creativity and how amazing good terrain can look from masters of there craft.
Even better if they where utilising the terrain they make, and showing how you can if effort is put in make something that looks good.
Yes, the clearly unfinished board that they didn't have to show off in its unfinished state and that doesn't seem to line up with the setting for the battle and that's just another bland ruined city board does indeed look meh. They could have waited until it was finished to show it off. They could have been a bit more creative with the terrain in general but chose not to be. Those are all valid areas of criticism when putting something out there as an advert.
Or they’re demonstrating it’s a custom board for the battle report, rather than one assembled from existing gubbins.
Just watched the masterclasses. They’re pretty informative, and like their other painting tutorials nice and clear, especially on camera angles and that.
So the Warhammer+ site could do with a bit of rework but I suspect that will happen after the first week when they drop the huge 2 page (it feels like) banner of subscribing and push all the actual links up to the top, esp once you've - you know - subscribed and don't need the subscrube/upgrade link any more.
They also need to fix the warhammer TV link in their account management page (which is where you end up when you first sign up) as that links to the regular youtube channel not into the Warhammer+ system
Videos could also do with a quality slider. There clearly IS one as videos will dip to a lower resolution to preserve streaming; but I'd like to be able to control that aspect. I'd rather tell it to buffer more and display at a higher quality than auto drop it for me just cause my net isn't as fast as is ideal all the time.
Atmosphere of Hammer and Bolter is spot on for the setting. Yes I want more frames and perhaps a touch less focusing super tight on the lips and face when they aren't doing a huge amount with them; but overall they are nailing the actual feeling, themes and ideas of the setting.
Vault also works well for viewing old issues - could do with a two pages on one screen for double spreads (esp on PC where you've ample room for such).
GaroRobe wrote: Wonder if lore videos on youtube will be in jeopardy, because Warhamer+ has loremaster videos and GW wants that sweet, sweet app money?
Maybe GWs will try to hire them?
Would be cool if they got 2+ Tough or Dave Witek of Garagehammer, their lore videos are fun. Mortal Realms podcast is good too. For AoS lore.
Does anyone else have problems connecting with the Rules App? WarhammerTV is working fine, but here I'm stuck in an infinite loop of "transmitting security ident" and hitting "I'm a subscriber".
I've contacted the app support and will post the reply for anyone who is also affected.
GaroRobe wrote: Wonder if lore videos on youtube will be in jeopardy, because Warhamer+ has loremaster videos and GW wants that sweet, sweet app money?
Maybe GWs will try to hire them?
We're still waiting for that so-called wide ban on Total War mods, so I guess they'll be perfectly fine.
Besides, all what the youtube channels can do is making videos out of the lore GW makes available to their customers already. GW can do something youtube lore channels can't : bringing official GW lore points.
BertBert wrote: Does anyone else have problems connecting with the Rules App? WarhammerTV is working fine, but here I'm stuck in an infinite loop of "transmitting security ident" and hitting "I'm a subscriber".
I've contacted the app support and will post the reply for anyone who is also affected.
Warhammer TV doesn't appear to be available in your location. But fear not, there are plenty of awesome subscriber perks you can enjoy. - The Warhammer Vault – a treasure trove of archived Warhammer publications and White Dwarf issues - Full access to Warhammer apps – both Warhammer 40,000: The App and Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App, with more to come - Premium experiences at official events - Unique offers just for subscribers - A free, exclusive Citadel miniature - The chance to purchase the rest of the exclusive subscriber miniature lineup
Check out the Terms & Conditions for more information about your subscription
So we are supposed to pay the same price as everyone else for less services available? It's not like it's something minor either, we don't have access to the major feature of the subscription.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Gah! Warhammer+ is still more expensive in Oz than in the UK... by a whole AUD$1.49.
That has me heartened. Any Aussies who signed up able to advise what the 10 pound voucher for signing up this week equate to in AU$ or was it a UK exclusive offer?
Apple fox wrote: Do they say how long they last, never got a GW voucher before? 28 is worth giving a go maybe.
2.2. Participants must have created a 'My Warhammer’ account and must hold an active subscription to GW’s ‘Warhammer+’ subscription service by 23:59 (in your local time zone) on 31st August 2021 and also must hold an active ‘Warhammer+’ subscription by 23:59 (in your local time zone) on 30th September 2021 to be eligible for a Virtual Voucher under this Offer.
3.2. Virtual Vouchers provided as part of this promotion will be sent by email on the 1st October 2021.
4.1.1. must be redeemed by 23.59 (in your local time zone) on 31st October 2021 and will expire thereafter;
Subbed this morning. Rollout seems to be a bit of a mess, lots of people (at least early on before Warcom posted their most recent article on it, not sure if its helped any) confused about where they were supposed to sign up, etc. (I forgot the mywarhammer website even existed), lots of people unaware that the Warhammer TV app is the corresponding app to the Warhammer + service, etc. In general their branding on this just seems kind of off, they should have named all the constituent apps "Warhammer + [blank]", i.e. "Warhammer+ TV", "Warhammer+ Vault", etc. I didn't realize that Warhammer TV was relevant to my warhammer + sub until a friend pointed it out to me.
The Phazer wrote: Not brilliant that the "top company" they've had working on this wasn't able to sort out an Android TV app for launch when there's a Fire TV app.
It's not quite zero porting required between the two, but it's not much in the grand scheme of things and it rather suggests a rushed, badly planned launch.
Did they ever reveal who the "top company" is? I wouldn't be surprised to learn its a middling but established company that nobody has ever actually heard of
No, but I'll figure it out within half an hour of the app going live.
And i find it kinda absurd how everyone completly misses my entire point.
Agreed, I understood your point quite clearly - I have to assume these guys are trolling you or intentionally mischaracterizing the nature of your point, otherwise their reading comprehension is awful. Its supposed to be an agri-world, i.e. open fields, barns, bales of hay, dilapidated wood/stone fences, cattle pens, etc. Instead it looks like a semi-industrial city. As someone else pointed out, its entirely possible that this represents the market square of a nearby village, the processing area of an industrial farm operation, or even an area of the planets capital, etc. So its not entirely out of the question that this does represent a scene from an agri-world, just not the "stereotype" of what you expect an agriworld to look like.
Tokhuah wrote: Let's make a bet that GW will release an official 40k Emperor's Tarot deck based on the internationally popular Hammer and Bolter series. It will be filled with beautiful art and proprietary card names to confuse experienced Tarot readers and to make sure nobody copies it without getting sued. It will retail for $65 and come with an exclusive wafer.
Warhammer TV doesn't appear to be available in your location. But fear not, there are plenty of awesome subscriber perks you can enjoy. - The Warhammer Vault – a treasure trove of archived Warhammer publications and White Dwarf issues - Full access to Warhammer apps – both Warhammer 40,000: The App and Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App, with more to come - Premium experiences at official events - Unique offers just for subscribers - A free, exclusive Citadel miniature - The chance to purchase the rest of the exclusive subscriber miniature lineup
Check out the Terms & Conditions for more information about your subscription
So, I got this message where I live(Iceland), but after I subscribed I still could access the videos and whatnot. YMMV of course.
Apple fox wrote: Do they say how long they last, never got a GW voucher before? 28 is worth giving a go maybe.
2.2. Participants must have created a 'My Warhammer’ account and must hold an active subscription to GW’s ‘Warhammer+’ subscription service by 23:59 (in your local time zone) on 31st August 2021 and also must hold an active ‘Warhammer+’ subscription by 23:59 (in your local time zone) on 30th September 2021 to be eligible for a Virtual Voucher under this Offer.
3.2. Virtual Vouchers provided as part of this promotion will be sent by email on the 1st October 2021.
4.1.1. must be redeemed by 23.59 (in your local time zone) on 31st October 2021 and will expire thereafter;
Don’t think there will be anything worth buying by then, so eh. Worthless to me to consider.
You only have to subscribe for a month to get the voucher? So they are actually paying people to get a month of Warhammer plus? They must either be extremely desperate, or really confident that people will keep it once they try it.
Albino Squirrel wrote: You only have to subscribe for a month to get the voucher? So they are actually paying people to get a month of Warhammer plus? They must either be extremely desperate, or really confident that people will keep it once they try it.
You need to pay for two months, you have to stay subscribed past the start of October.
Albino Squirrel wrote: You only have to subscribe for a month to get the voucher? So they are actually paying people to get a month of Warhammer plus? They must either be extremely desperate, or really confident that people will keep it once they try it.
Well two months so no.
It’s the first two months free basically..
There is also the calculus of vouchers/rebates/gift cards. How many issued will actually get used? When spending it, will you buy more than it’s value? By buying from the company store, they get a higher margin.
Albino Squirrel wrote: You only have to subscribe for a month to get the voucher? So they are actually paying people to get a month of Warhammer plus? They must either be extremely desperate, or really confident that people will keep it once they try it.
since it’s for there own store, and most things cost extra there. If people buy minis, the major cost is in design and manufacturing before the cost of mini itself.
So getting extra money, even if it costs them a voucher is well worth it for nearly anything they sell.
It’s a great incentive as a whole for them, they do get money, even if on paper they are losing some.
Last time I saw one of those was a store opening voucher in WD hundred-and-something, buy three boxsets and get the cheapest one free think it was
Just after the collapse of the Soviet Union, I remember the date.
Eh? They've done voucher offers several times in the last year. Including this last month.
They had an ongoing series last fall for buy X amount, get a voucher for Y, recurring for about 3 months.
Well looks like even if you get statement it's not in your area it still shows.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And the board for um vs necron isn't sparse but damn boring layout. Why they evee bothered rolling who picks up deployment zone
That's a good point. I guess it doesn't actually cost GW much, since anyone using that voucher will end up spending much more than the value of the voucher on the store, and may even buy something they otherwise wouldn't have to use it up on time. So I guess there's little risk to GW, so it's not necessarily that they're confident people will keep the subscription. But it should bump the numbers up for the first few months if they're essentially giving it away for free.
GeeDubs- wrote:Will Warhammer TV be available where I live?
Warhammer TV has been officially launched in the following territories: UK, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, and Italy.
However, we’re adding new countries to this list all the time, so check for updates regularly, or sign up for our Warhammer+ newsletter to get all the latest information delivered directly to your inbox.
Can any of my colegas íbericos or other people from around the world confirm if they get an error too?
Agreed, I understood your point quite clearly - I have to assume these guys are trolling you or intentionally mischaracterizing the nature of your point, otherwise their reading comprehension is awful. Its supposed to be an agri-world, i.e. open fields, barns, bales of hay, dilapidated wood/stone fences, cattle pens, etc. Instead it looks like a semi-industrial city. As someone else pointed out, its entirely possible that this represents the market square of a nearby village, the processing area of an industrial farm operation, or even an area of the planets capital, etc. So its not entirely out of the question that this does represent a scene from an agri-world, just not the "stereotype" of what you expect an agriworld to look like.
No, it's supposed to be the battle of Iax, which takes place in the capital city of an agriworld, and is documented in great detail in a novel that came out months ago - and the place the battle takes place looks pretty much like that board.
I can totally see why someone might not realise that, certainly not everyone is going to have read the book. And yes, "agriworld" does sound like you'd expect something else without that context. But what I can't understand is that when someone politely points that out the battle they're recreating happens in a city, the reaction isn't to go "oh fair enough, haven't read it," but to double down, to say that's bad reading comprehension or trolling, or to come up with conspiracy theories about how that's justification after the fact for using the gakky GW terrain boards, when the book was written a year ago.
The battle and its setting are described in great detail over 50 pages or so of Godblight. It doesn't take place on farmland. Might have been cool if it did, but it didn't.
There is no argument here, other than "a rural battle would have been cooler than an industrial one". People are inferring stuff about the setting from one word in the marketing copy when there's 20,000 words written that describe it in great detail. There's no need.
streetsamurai wrote: Yeah, that's one of the part of nuGW that i hate the most. Completely removed the diy part of the hobby and almost only showing GW produced terrain. Which is kind of sad considering that old WD were having articles showing how to make some terrain
It's very much a bummer. I learned so much about how to make terrain from WD as well as the terrain book GWS put out; excellent resources. Sad to see them pretend they never did stuff like that. If you like terrain, the GWS book "How To Make Wargames Terrain" is a must-own at like $16 USD.
Last time I saw one of those was a store opening voucher in WD hundred-and-something, buy three boxsets and get the cheapest one free think it was
Just after the collapse of the Soviet Union, I remember the date.
Eh? They've done voucher offers several times in the last year. Including this last month.
They had an ongoing series last fall for buy X amount, get a voucher for Y, recurring for about 3 months.
Thanks for the correction.. I have very much missed the current releases (and by current I mean the last decade) other than the odd copy of WD
chaos0xomega wrote: ]. Its supposed to be an agri-world, i.e. open fields, barns, bales of hay, dilapidated wood/stone fences, cattle pens, etc. Instead it looks like a semi-industrial city. As someone else pointed out, its entirely possible that this represents the market square of a nearby village, the processing area of an industrial farm operation, or even an area of the planets capital, etc. So its not entirely out of the question that this does represent a scene from an agri-world, just not the "stereotype" of what you expect an agriworld to look like.
Ah yes. Battle taking in capital city(as per fluff of battle. You HAVE read it right?) Looks like farm, forest etc...since when?
How many capitals in our world has barns and hay???
Really? Not even north korea or afganistan have such capitals.
You have weird ideas on what capital cities(you did of course know where story takes place since you critique. Surely you wouldn't do that without knowing fluff of battle in question) looks like.
Agreed, I understood your point quite clearly - I have to assume these guys are trolling you or intentionally mischaracterizing the nature of your point, otherwise their reading comprehension is awful. Its supposed to be an agri-world, i.e. open fields, barns, bales of hay, dilapidated wood/stone fences, cattle pens, etc. Instead it looks like a semi-industrial city. As someone else pointed out, its entirely possible that this represents the market square of a nearby village, the processing area of an industrial farm operation, or even an area of the planets capital, etc. So its not entirely out of the question that this does represent a scene from an agri-world, just not the "stereotype" of what you expect an agriworld to look like.
No, it's supposed to be the battle of Iax, which takes place in the capital city of an agriworld, and is documented in great detail in a novel that came out months ago - and the place the battle takes place looks pretty much like that board.
I can totally see why someone might not realise that, certainly not everyone is going to have read the book. And yes, "agriworld" does sound like you'd expect something else without that context. But what I can't understand is that when someone politely points that out the battle they're recreating happens in a city, the reaction isn't to go "oh fair enough, haven't read it," but to double down, to say that's bad reading comprehension or trolling, or to come up with conspiracy theories about how that's justification after the fact for using the gakky GW terrain boards, when the book was written a year ago.
The battle and its setting are described in great detail over 50 pages or so of Godblight. It doesn't take place on farmland. Might have been cool if it did, but it didn't.
There is no argument here, other than "a rural battle would have been cooler than an industrial one". People are inferring stuff about the setting from one word in the marketing copy when there's 20,000 words written that describe it in great detail. There's no need.
I would follow up, that we have seen some pictures of parts of what look to be the finished board.
Bit extra terrain and tactical dust of a more desert kind.
It doesn’t really look like anything, not a space port. City hub with shops or a habitat for living.
Maybe they will wow me, and the side with nurgle will be covered in green and spores and color as the Aproach of chaos nears.
Even if you can say it’s appropriate for the setting they invoking, it’s still rather dull.
Also as a narrative mission from a book, how did they even get off the planet if it all but fell and this is a last stand ? This more my curiosity as added idea before I watch the batrep if I end up paying.
), I'll convert The Decapitator, I'll convert baron Sthonyx, I'll convert a Mandrake Lord (and have), I'll convert a Scourge Supreme, I'll convert a Master Incubus etc..
