1084
Post by: Agamemnon2
I am old. Way older than many of you, having started with this grand game back in second edition. As such, the mindset and intentions of modern Games Workshop rules designers are completely opaque and senseless to me. All I can see is that they're in constant conflict between simplification and complication, and the Custodes gun-katas being a poorly formatted example of the latter.
Why 9th edition is better with rules like this instead of, say, a list of USRs in the rulebook like 6th, or a separate Strategy Card deck like 2nd, I can only guess at. Presumably they've done all their market research and their findings show, that this game of mess will sell well for a year or so, before another cull in the name of simplification, and thus the cycle begins anew with 10th edition.
107700
Post by: alextroy
You say that like there has been any edition other than 8th that cleared away the complications of a prior edition on mass. Whatever they pile on today will stick around until the next version of the codex arrives. Only then will they get rid of unliked mechanics in favor of new mechanics.
320
Post by: Platuan4th
 alextroy wrote:You say that like there has been any edition other than 8th that cleared away the complications of a prior edition on mass.
3rd Ed did that coming from 2nd. There's a reason the BRB contained army lists. It was a MASSIVE change.
85326
Post by: Arbitrator
People complained armour facings were the devil. Making Crossfire a USR would probably make peoples brains melt.
28269
Post by: Red Corsair
 Platuan4th wrote: alextroy wrote:You say that like there has been any edition other than 8th that cleared away the complications of a prior edition on mass.
3rd Ed did that coming from 2nd. There's a reason the BRB contained army lists. It was a MASSIVE change.
To go even further, I'd argue the changes from 2nd to 3rd were even bigger then the changes from 7th to 8th
71876
Post by: Rihgu
 Arbitrator wrote:People complained armour facings were the devil. Making Crossfire a USR would probably make peoples brains melt.
Crossfire is a very simple mechanic that uses the same "core" as several others (obscuring, dense cover), and those aren't blowing any minds.
Armour facings would be fine if we also cared about non-vehicle facings and also had a consistent intuitive way to figure out facings of non-rectangular vehicles.
74088
Post by: Irbis
Rihgu wrote: Arbitrator wrote:People complained armour facings were the devil. Making Crossfire a USR would probably make peoples brains melt.
Crossfire is a very simple mechanic that uses the same "core" as several others (obscuring, dense cover), and those aren't blowing any minds.
Armour facings would be fine if we also cared about non-vehicle facings and also had a consistent intuitive way to figure out facings of non-rectangular vehicles.
This. Facings were crap, poorly represented on models (Land Raider with exposed engine being AV14 all around while armoured Russes for some reason are paper thin 10 at the back, but exposed engine FW Russ variant being 11, go figure), monsters ignored them, caused no end of issues when firing unit was on diagonal, etc, etc. Either everything in game has facings or nothing, abstraction on only half of the units is a garbage system that makes some unit trash for no reason whatsoever (which was always mentioned in discussions about vehicles in old editions, but I guess rose glass blinkers brigade already forgot about that).
And then joker of a writer for Tau made facings even more comical by giving Tau special rules that ignored them (special super penetrating tactic that allowed Tau to always target rear AV, apparently they can make lasers and railgun bullets fly in U shape when firer is in the front) or made Tau walkers steered with a joystick monsters to give them T instead of AV and a bunch of broken rules MCs had (when SM walkers piloted with a thought like your own body were still clumsy and easily beatable by Tau ones in melee), such fluff, much wow LOL 
I also like people still defend flaming trash can that was USRs after playing a game of old edition recently and seeing why they were stupid idea again. Let's see, dozens of rage/furious charge/fury/other charge and similar nonsense "" USR""s that differed only in tiny details and were pretty much 'bespoke' rules we have now only requiring you to frantically flip big book to look up instead of being on unit card (funny that some people always whining about 'bespoke' never seem to complain about these, eh?), "" USR""s that were limited to one unit in one army ( CSM blaze thing was super ""universal"" LOL), really, there is a case to be made about armies each having a page of common rules of their own in Codex for ease of update, but USRs of old edition in rulebook were as garbage in use as armoury system that sadly only 5th edition dared to can for a bit.
So, yeah, I am puzzled how people can still be  about terribad system that was rightfully binned. Are you people still using MS DOS or something? 
21358
Post by: Dysartes
Nice to see Irbis providing an ongoing example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
4042
Post by: Da Boss
Irbis is great, those posts are like pure adrenaline.
107700
Post by: alextroy
 Red Corsair wrote: Platuan4th wrote: alextroy wrote:You say that like there has been any edition other than 8th that cleared away the complications of a prior edition on mass.
3rd Ed did that coming from 2nd. There's a reason the BRB contained army lists. It was a MASSIVE change.
To go even further, I'd argue the changes from 2nd to 3rd were even bigger then the changes from 7th to 8th
The move from 2nd to 3rd, as I've heard, was almost a completely different game. That being side, did it clear away the complications of the prior edition or just change everything for a different play experience?
But we can agree that only 3rd and 8th editions invalidated priorly released material at release.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Well, there it is!
122274
Post by: SamusDrake
Hmmmmm...I quite fancy the Genecults if Henry want to go halves. 
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Fingers crossed for cheap Allarus Terminators flooding the market. 
61979
Post by: DaveC
Shadow Throne is £105, €140, $165 (US price based on Command Edition but might vary like the Euro price has)
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
AUD$280 then.
Ouch.
110309
Post by: ListenToMeWarriors
Looking at the sprues the new GSC character has 2 head options whilst the blade Champion has 1 helmeted and 2 bare as well as an option for big sword in one hand and smaller blade in the other as an alternative to the big swinging dual hand option.
30305
Post by: Laughing Man
ListenToMeWarriors wrote:Looking at the sprues the new GSC character has 2 head options whilst the blade Champion has 1 helmeted and 2 bare as well as an option for big sword in one hand and smaller blade I the other as an alternative to the big swinging dual hand option.
I'd assume it's just the same sword plus misericordia.
49827
Post by: MajorWesJanson
 Laughing Man wrote:ListenToMeWarriors wrote:Looking at the sprues the new GSC character has 2 head options whilst the blade Champion has 1 helmeted and 2 bare as well as an option for big sword in one hand and smaller blade I the other as an alternative to the big swinging dual hand option.
I'd assume it's just the same sword plus misericordia.
Agreed, but it is nice to have even minimal variety, so you can run 2 non identical models if you like.
117925
Post by: Bago
One summary from reddit regarding gsc based of the first blurry review pictures of shadowthrone:
"Ok, a few things here.One, clandestine is a Saboteur ability, not army wide. Maaaaybe things like Sanctus get it, but certainly not Primus or Magus.Both Primus and Magus are better than before. Magus cast 2 powers now. I think the familiar allows a reroll.Primus is a mini-skitari marshall now, rerolling 1s to hit and wound. He's going to be a must have. Also gain +1T and one extra attack with the claw.Patriarch gains 4++ and one wound, but loses 1 point of Strength and both auras (fearless is combat attrition now, which sucks, and +1 to hit for genestealers is gone). Claws are better (damage 2, still flat 3 with 6s). Overall, it's better, 4++ is a big boost, so is the 7th wound (need 3 hits from D3 weapons now).The saboteur gimmick bomb is going to be pretty useless. It's deployed in command phase (so can't use in the turn she deepstrike), at 1", and can't move while doing it. I don't see it being used much, unless there are stratagems to boost it, like placing it at range.
Shotguns are S4.I can't read the webber, or the seismic cannon.
EDIT: I think Webber is S1, roll 1d6, if the roll is higher than the highest enemy S in the target unit, do 1 mortal wound."
26519
Post by: xttz
Boneswords are +1S 2D, hopefully that carries over to the Tyranid codex too. Edit: might just be for the Primus
As expected the Patriarch changes from D3 to flat 2 damage.
Looks like Neophytes can have any 2 heavy plus 2 special weapons per 10 models, and they're not limited to the bits in the kit like Skitarii.
They're going to be fairly shooty.
110703
Post by: Galas
So +1 wound and attack for trajan but only +1 wound to the Vexillus so I'm not sure if custodes will receive more attacks or wounds. At least, Trajan weapon goes to damage 3. Thats nice.
30305
Post by: Laughing Man
Misericordia no longer has a line about storm shields, so that's possibly good.
49827
Post by: MajorWesJanson
Vexillarus may not get a bonus attack because of holding the banner.
76273
Post by: Eihnlazer
making misericorda's free isnt quite as good as +1A across the board, but its certainly not a bad fix.
30305
Post by: Laughing Man
 Eihnlazer wrote:making misericorda's free isnt quite as good as +1A across the board, but its certainly not a bad fix.
Datasheets don't typically show points, so it's unlikely to be free.
1107
Post by: Third_Age_of_Baggz
 Galas wrote:
So +1 wound and attack for trajan but only +1 wound to the Vexillus so I'm not sure if custodes will receive more attacks or wounds. At least, Trajan weapon goes to damage 3. Thats nice.
Do my eyes deceive me or does the Prosecutor have Move 7”? 
Trajan looking more like the badass he should be.
123233
Post by: GaroRobe
https://www.instagram.com/p/CXVs0t3tMEI/
For those curious, here's the alternate pose with the custode character. I sort of like this one better, though I'd like to swap out the knife hand with one of the open hands from the standard kit.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Man, my Skitarii Marshal is jealous of that Custodes character.
73007
Post by: Grimskul
 GaroRobe wrote:https://www.instagram.com/p/CXVs0t3tMEI/
For those curious, here's the alternate pose with the custode character. I sort of like this one better, though I'd like to swap out the knife hand with one of the open hands from the standard kit.
It's weird that I actually like the alternate bare head for once rather than the helmeted version, especially with the two sword pose option they have set up. I'm not sure why but something about the helmet angle makes it look off for me.
110309
Post by: ListenToMeWarriors
 MajorWesJanson wrote: Laughing Man wrote:ListenToMeWarriors wrote:Looking at the sprues the new GSC character has 2 head options whilst the blade Champion has 1 helmeted and 2 bare as well as an option for big sword in one hand and smaller blade I the other as an alternative to the big swinging dual hand option.
I'd assume it's just the same sword plus misericordia.
Agreed, but it is nice to have even minimal variety, so you can run 2 non identical models if you like.
No Misericordia on the Blade Champion, his datasheet reads " A Blade Champion is equipped with: vaultswords". With those he has 3 fighting modes , select one when making your attacks.
5513
Post by: privateer4hire
 DaveC wrote:Shadow Throne is £105, €140, $165 (US price based on Command Edition but might vary like the Euro price has)
Good estimate. It’s $170 USD. I hadn’t paid much attention to this release until now but that sure seems like an awfully big price for so few models- many of which are recycled from other boxed releases.
28269
Post by: Red Corsair
Wow, that's an insane price point IMHO
9 Custodes
14 GSC
$170.00?
Glad I already own everything I need for my GSC.
117925
Post by: Bago
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/02/sunday-preview-two-codexes-one-final-primarch-and-more/
So Codices are up to preorder for next week. I wish, we would get another rules preview for GSC but I doubt it.
116670
Post by: Ordana
nice that we're getting them in the first half of January. Wonder if Tau will be in the second half of Jan considering all the reviews we have already had.
84439
Post by: Marshal Loss
I don't think they'll do Tau in the same month - probably the beginning of February.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Custodes and GSC are literally just spillover from December. Tau were supposed to be the first book of 2022.
124882
Post by: Gadzilla666
I really hope they get the Tau codex out this month as well. Because then it'll be time for the next two codexes......
113031
Post by: Voss
 Gadzilla666 wrote: I really hope they get the Tau codex out this month as well. Because then it'll be time for the next two codexes......
Based on things said in articles (that these three books would make 40k exciting for months), I think there is a bit of a wait.
I suppose we could sit down and work out exactly what's all in the docket across all the product lines, but I'll be surprised by Tau before Feb and the Chaos/Eldar versus box before March. And the books after that.
116670
Post by: Ordana
Voss wrote: Gadzilla666 wrote: I really hope they get the Tau codex out this month as well. Because then it'll be time for the next two codexes......
Based on things said in articles (that these three books would make 40k exciting for months), I think there is a bit of a wait.
I suppose we could sit down and work out exactly what's all in the docket across all the product lines, but I'll be surprised by Tau before Feb and the Chaos/Eldar versus box before March. And the books after that.
I just think that if Tau were coming in Feb then we wouldn't have already had their preview articles.
26519
Post by: xttz
I'll be surprised if Chapter Approved doesn't come out in January; we might see Tau alongside that. Today's preview is probably just them pushing the schedule back a week.
113031
Post by: Voss
 Ordana wrote:Voss wrote: Gadzilla666 wrote: I really hope they get the Tau codex out this month as well. Because then it'll be time for the next two codexes......
Based on things said in articles (that these three books would make 40k exciting for months), I think there is a bit of a wait.
I suppose we could sit down and work out exactly what's all in the docket across all the product lines, but I'll be surprised by Tau before Feb and the Chaos/Eldar versus box before March. And the books after that.
I just think that if Tau were coming in Feb then we wouldn't have already had their preview articles.
/shrug. Their release schedule is so screwed up it doesn't matter. I'm not really privy to enough behind the scenes info to judge, so I just go by the things they've said.
Tau may come sooner, but that leaves a pretty gaping void of 40k releases.
xttz wrote:I'll be surprised if Chapter Approved doesn't come out in January; we might see Tau alongside that. Today's preview is probably just them pushing the schedule back a week.
Er... no. 3-5 weeks, depending on when in December GSC and Custodes were originally slated- either the 4th, 11th or 18th, and I suspect is was one of the earlier two, because holidays.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
If they can hold off on the Eldar/Chaos box 'til April, that'd be nice.
124882
Post by: Gadzilla666
 H.B.M.C. wrote:If they can hold off on the Eldar/Chaos box 'til April, that'd be nice.
The box? Sure. The codex? Noooooo. 
26519
Post by: xttz
Voss wrote:xttz wrote:I'll be surprised if Chapter Approved doesn't come out in January; we might see Tau alongside that. Today's preview is probably just them pushing the schedule back a week.
Er... no. 3-5 weeks, depending on when in December GSC and Custodes were originally slated- either the 4th, 11th or 18th, and I suspect is was one of the earlier two, because holidays.
I was assuming that whatever was originally slated to up for preorder on Jan 8th would now probably be on Jan 15th instead; not saying that these codexes were originally going to be released on Xmas / new years.
Weird nitpick though, thanks!
49827
Post by: MajorWesJanson
I can see the box coming out before the codices as a sort of preview/appetizer for the full releases. Updated rules for the models in the box, but a wait for the proper drop of Eldar and CSM
21358
Post by: Dysartes
You're right - the associated Codexes shouldn't be released before June, at the earliest.
And I'm not saying which June...
101864
Post by: Dudeface
As it stands I don't think we know or have confirmed any "big" release before the eldar vs chaos box? Maybe the sigmar battle box, but even that is the usual 1 character release to support the books like shadowthrone.
In short we only have filler releases for the most part that we know of, certainly not enough to last until end of Feb
18072
Post by: TBD
Man that cover art of the new GSC codex is so hideous it makes me not want to buy it.
55577
Post by: ImAGeek
 TBD wrote:Man that cover art of the new GSC codex is so hideous it makes me not want to buy it.
Are you kidding? It’s one of my favourite codex covers they’ve done.
124882
Post by: Gadzilla666
I just find it hard to believe that they're already plugging the CSM vs Eldar box, CA, and campaign book, and that they'll sit on them for three months. But, it's gw, so who knows.
 Dysartes wrote:
You're right - the associated Codexes shouldn't be released before June, at the earliest.
And I'm not saying which June...
Et tu, Dysartes? Et tu?  
101864
Post by: Dudeface
Gadzilla666 wrote:I just find it hard to believe that they're already plugging the CSM vs Eldar box, CA, and campaign book, and that they'll sit on them for three months. But, it's gw, so who knows.
Dysartes wrote:
You're right - the associated Codexes shouldn't be released before June, at the earliest.
And I'm not saying which June...
Et tu, Dysartes? Et tu?
I agree but then they've dropped in the "buy these while you wait" whilst discussing the period up to the end of Feb.
26519
Post by: xttz
Gadzilla666 wrote:I just find it hard to believe that they're already plugging the CSM vs Eldar box, CA, and campaign book, and that they'll sit on them for three months.
Would you prefer they went back to the old system of keeping all new releases under wraps until the week before?  At least with ~3 months notice people can better plan or budget for purchases.
I'll be surprised if CA isn't out before the end of Jan. CSM/Eldar is probably some time in Feb.
107700
Post by: alextroy
Bago wrote:https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/02/sunday-preview-two-codexes-one-final-primarch-and-more/
So Codices are up to preorder for next week. I wish, we would get another rules preview for GSC but I doubt it.
Additional details on both Codexes this week are promised in the video.
85326
Post by: Arbitrator
TBD wrote:Man that cover art of the new GSC codex is so hideous it makes me not want to buy it.
I think it's great. Very gritty and grim, whilst reinforcing GSC as being a horde army of mutants. Much better than just having one, lone heroic figure pointing and/or aiming off into the distance with a glow and vague silhouettes around them. The Custodes cover meanwhile looks horrible.
26519
Post by: xttz
The old Brood Brothers rules are such a word salad it's hard to be sure of what the changes are, but I think this is the jist:
Leadership bonus changed to +2 instead of +1
Can use orders and similar special rules now.
Can't be more than 25% of your army in points / PL
72249
Post by: beast_gts
Turn the Imperium’s Weapons Against It with New Brood Brothers Rules mentions taking "Valkyrie air support", but they don't have <REGIMENT> or UNALIGNED...
85326
Post by: Arbitrator
 xttz wrote:The old Brood Brothers rules are such a word salad it's hard to be sure of what the changes are, but I think this is the jist:
Leadership bonus changed to +2 instead of +1
Can use orders and similar special rules now.
Can't be more than 25% of your army in points / PL
Can't take Militarum Auxilla anymore either.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Will Brood Brother squads be allowed to bring something other then just Grenade Launchers and Flamers now?
85326
Post by: Arbitrator
The Brood Brothers box is still the 'old' Cadian sprue with just GL/Flamers so I wouldn't count on it.
72249
Post by: beast_gts
Who knows? (but those are still the only options in the box)
129062
Post by: The Black Adder
From the preview it appears you just add an imperial guard detachment but instead of regiment and imperium keywords they are brood brothers - so you just get the entries exactly as they appear in the IG codex.
74088
Post by: Irbis
The Black Adder wrote:From the preview it appears you just add an imperial guard detachment but instead of regiment and imperium keywords they are brood brothers - so you just get the entries exactly as they appear in the IG codex.
Which, given 'new' IG troop box has all the options, will mean they can take all special weapons. Which would be nice, though then FUD brigade will quietly ignore it and will find something else to bash and complain about. Maybe the fact you will need to use two books to do what they wanted
106711
Post by: Necronmaniac05
I hope we get some more Custodes previews this week. It feels like we still know very little about the changes coming in the book. Less than we normally get pre release though that may be just me!
29661
Post by: stratigo
It doesn't look like custodes will be changing much beyond doing tai chi at the start of the battle and everything becoming damage 2 (and thus pretty crap)
722
Post by: Kanluwen
The Black Adder wrote:From the preview it appears you just add an imperial guard detachment but instead of regiment and imperium keywords they are brood brothers - so you just get the entries exactly as they appear in the IG codex.
ehhh...
It looks like they expected this to come out with or after the IG book. There's a bit of weirdness.
Notice the "Unaligned" bit.
87012
Post by: Toofast
stratigo wrote:It doesn't look like custodes will be changing much beyond doing tai chi at the start of the battle and everything becoming damage 2 (and thus pretty crap)
Yea, my custodes pile of shame went on ebay and now I'm cranking out some Black Templars. I'm not a fan of how the new Custodes buffs were implemented...
106711
Post by: Necronmaniac05
Well, we don't know what strats and things they might have. I'm not sure we can necessarily say they are not going to be good. D:2 is better than D 3 and i reckon they will be pretty durable.
100848
Post by: tneva82
Not with -1 dam on opponents which is starting to be more and more common turning d2 to d1
116670
Post by: Ordana
xttz wrote:The old Brood Brothers rules are such a word salad it's hard to be sure of what the changes are, but I think this is the jist:
Leadership bonus changed to +2 instead of +1
Can use orders and similar special rules now.
Can't be more than 25% of your army in points / PL
They already got orders as per the faq, but only to stuff they could order as IG. Automatically Appended Next Post: The Black Adder wrote:From the preview it appears you just add an imperial guard detachment but instead of regiment and imperium keywords they are brood brothers - so you just get the entries exactly as they appear in the IG codex.
There is a difference between the Brood Brother unit entry, which is a stripped down IG squad in the GSC codex, and a Brood Brother detachment which is an IG army attached to a GSC force.
8725
Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Oooh….GSC Ogryns.
Only because Ogryns are ace!
71876
Post by: Rihgu
Alas, Ogryns are not <REGIMENT> so cannot be Brood Brothers. 
49827
Post by: MajorWesJanson
 Kanluwen wrote:The Black Adder wrote:From the preview it appears you just add an imperial guard detachment but instead of regiment and imperium keywords they are brood brothers - so you just get the entries exactly as they appear in the IG codex.
ehhh...
It looks like they expected this to come out with or after the IG book. There's a bit of weirdness.
Notice the "Unaligned" bit.
Unaligned exists for a few creatures and most buildings.
71876
Post by: Rihgu
I think Kan's point is that right now ASTRA MILITARUM Detachments cannot include any UNALIGNED models in them, whereas newer codexes allow UNALIGNED models while maintaining the status as, say, DRUKHARI detachments.
Granted, in GT2021 they add a further restriction that UNALIGNED can only exist in Fortification detachments, so it's ultimately meaningless for the majority of the community that discusses the game on message boards.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
My point was also that Astra Militarum right now just don't have anything "Unaligned" that I can think of off the top of my head.
And that wording is just Super Weird in the context of the article. Valkyries, for example, don't have the <Regiment> keyword but are plugged in the article as a Big Deal.
I'm guessing we'll see some kind of FAQ explaining that anything counting as Auxiliaries will be "Unaligned" going forward for Guard.
99971
Post by: Audustum
Kanluwen wrote:My point was also that Astra Militarum right now just don't have anything "Unaligned" that I can think of off the top of my head.
And that wording is just Super Weird in the context of the article. Valkyries, for example, don't have the <Regiment> keyword but are plugged in the article as a Big Deal.
I'm guessing we'll see some kind of FAQ explaining that anything counting as Auxiliaries will be "Unaligned" going forward for Guard.
Fortifications are unaligned so I would guess that was for them. I also think Valkyrie has been scrubbed from the article (but too lazy to check).
117925
Post by: Bago
Huh, it was indeed scrapped. Seems like a writer made a mistake.
99210
Post by: Dreamchild
Aco/meta stats via Discord
2
119289
Post by: Not Online!!!
Oy got their nades now s5... With AP.
Now that is an improvement!
87012
Post by: Toofast
Does anyone else really hate those symbols and miss actual English words that don't have to be decoded? How did anyone think that was good presentation for a statline that should be easily readable at a glance?
117719
Post by: Sunny Side Up
 Toofast wrote:Does anyone else really hate those symbols and miss actual English words that don't have to be decoded? How did anyone think that was good presentation for a statline that should be easily readable at a glance?
Precisely because it saves them the translation and the logistical hassle of ensuring the boxes with english flyers go to english-speaking countries, those with spanish flyers to the spanish-speaking, japanese flyers to japanese-speaking, etc..
126944
Post by: Wha-Mu-077
Toofast wrote:Does anyone else really hate those symbols and miss actual English words that don't have to be decoded? How did anyone think that was good presentation for a statline that should be easily readable at a glance?
As a Kill Team player - me circle, buddy.
76888
Post by: Tyran
Nice to know boneswords are going up to damage 2. It would be nicer if Tyranids are also FAQed with the upgrade.
26519
Post by: xttz
Cultist knives from AP0 to AP-2 (probably combined with rending claws)
Metamorph talons & claws presumably both use the same S+1 AP-3 D1 profile now
Fairly standard changes for flat damage, although the key part for the Acolyte heavy weapons will be the special rules
102719
Post by: Gert
Unaligned covers some of the Blackstone models as well. It's basically a catch-all for "Stuff that isn't explicitly one faction or the other".
28269
Post by: Red Corsair
The rock cutter went from damage d3 to flat 3.
Saw is unchanged
Drill is now ap -4
The Knife and claw seem rolled into one, guess that means less attacks. AP -2 means an overall buff though and we don't have to separate useless from good attacks anymore lol.
Blasting charges are great now lol. If they still have the grenade strat, pairing that with exposed targets could get nasty fast. Could even dump it all out the bed of a truck lol.
Points were always going to make or break these guys though. I'm betting 9ppm is the cheapest they could be, but wouldn't be shocked if they are more.
Metamorphs still seem weird, unless they have very competitive pricing or some special rule they are most likely staying on my shelf.
HOWEVER, the interesting part for me is that the metamorph claw is not the power fist the rumors stated, meaning that entire rumor dump comes into question. Thats the only one I remember off the top of my head without looking for them though.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
 Irbis wrote:Which, given 'new' IG troop box has all the options, will mean they can take all special weapons. Which would be nice, though then FUD brigade will quietly ignore it and will find something else to bash and complain about. Maybe the fact you will need to use two books to do what they wanted
Except the Brood Brother kit doesn't have the new Cadian sprue. Forgot about that, didn't'cha champ? 
But hey, they may repackage them with the new sprue and a 20% price rise. Who knows?
49827
Post by: MajorWesJanson
H.B.M.C. wrote: Irbis wrote:Which, given 'new' IG troop box has all the options, will mean they can take all special weapons. Which would be nice, though then FUD brigade will quietly ignore it and will find something else to bash and complain about. Maybe the fact you will need to use two books to do what they wanted
Except the Brood Brother kit doesn't have the new Cadian sprue. Forgot about that, didn't'cha champ?
But hey, they may repackage them with the new sprue and a 20% price rise. Who knows?
Except the Brood Brothers kit is not what is being discussed, champ. That box is for the unit entry in the GSC book. The Brood Brothers detachment says to take an Astra Militarum detachment and then swap out the faction key words. There is nothing saying that an infantry squad in a Beood Beothers detachment loses access to plasma guns or bolters on the sergeant, they just cant take relics. Keep up, tiger!
29661
Post by: stratigo
Necronmaniac05 wrote:Well, we don't know what strats and things they might have. I'm not sure we can necessarily say they are not going to be good. D:2 is better than D 3 and i reckon they will be pretty durable.
Damage 2 is better then d3 casually, but at this point in the edition, worse competitively.
320
Post by: Platuan4th
Would actually be pretty nice if the GSC box did get redone, though.
26519
Post by: xttz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpZv8xw7S4o
Auspex tactics did a video on updated datasheets for a few GSC units:
Rockgrinder gets 12" movement and WS3+Rockgrinder & Truck are 3+ saveStandard 9E improvements to some weapons for both vehicles, especially the heavy seismic cannonJackal Alphus +1Sv -1W, better sniper rifleAbominant -1S +1W
33527
Post by: Niiai
Do we know if there is a GSC combat patroll? While I can stil grab the old one I do not really need more ridge runners.
116670
Post by: Ordana
Yeah, the Custodes book definitely got written by the IF guy. Every single ability 'if you did a specific thing'
26519
Post by: xttz
 Niiai wrote:Do we know if there is a GSC combat patroll? While I can stil grab the old one I do not really need more ridge runners.
It hasn't been announced yet but we should get to see it when the codex reviews appear on Saturday. I suspect GW are holding back a few Combat Patrol sets to release all at once like they've done before with Start Collecting.
Will be interesting to see if they bring back the old DWOK infantry sprues as part of the GSC set. I'm sure they could fit at least three of those in the box and it would give a big chunk of models to start the army compared to the same volume of sprues for the full kits.
7075
Post by: chaos0xomega
IIRC Thousand Sons and Grey Knights are still waiting for their Combat Patrols, but Black Templars (released after them) already received theres. Really seems to be down to production/shipping delays as to when they get released. The codex should provide us an indication as to the contents of it.
33527
Post by: Niiai
Oh yeah. Probably the shadow box was our 'combat patroll'. I don't need more of the characters. Or ridge runners.
69321
Post by: JWBS
Nah there will be a combat patrol.
7075
Post by: chaos0xomega
Yes, a separate permanent stock combat patrol is being released for every faction, so there definitely will be one.
33527
Post by: Niiai
The question is when. This Saturday?
113031
Post by: Voss
Nope.
They would have been pre-announced for pre-order on Sunday with the books.
If they come, they'll likely come when 'bomber girl' and 'extra stabby guy' get individual releases. I'd wager on a random week in late Feb/ early March. Maybe April.
69321
Post by: JWBS
idk, Jain Zaar, Ragnar etc we had to wait an appreciable time for didn't we? Same with Wake the Dead and others. Is Castellan Crowe available yet? The codices that accompanied them are. The dex drops before the paywalled characters I think.
113031
Post by: Voss
JWBS wrote:idk, Jain Zaar, Ragnar etc we had to wait an appreciable time for didn't we? Same with Wake the Dead and others. Is Castellan Crowe available yet? The codices that accompanied them are. The dex drops before the paywalled characters I think.
Yeah, it does. The books are this weekend. The box came out in December. That's why I'm positing the individual characters off towards March.
But I'll admit, I forget that Crowe even existed. Could be a shipping/production hiccup, or maybe these new characters are more May/June.
69321
Post by: JWBS
Oh sorry I forgot we were talking about combat patrols. Yeah I'd agree, six to eight weeks after codex I think, logistics problems not withstanding.
26519
Post by: xttz
I wonder if the backlogged stuff will all get dropped together as a filler week. There's single characters & combat patrols pending for at least 4 factions, plus the recently announced updates for the Dark Imperium marine characters. Perhaps it'll come alongside Chapter Approved since none of them are 'new' releases.
In other news, the GSC discord has a bunch of tidbits about the new book. This is the time when advance review copies are received by the youtube-types
Luckily someone made a summary on reddit to save me typing so much:
Everything gets cult creeds
Guard units and drill gone from the dex
Metas, aberrants, jackals got weapons standardised (to some degree) – doesn’t matter how you build em, profile is the same. Exceptions for demos, hand flamers, sarge upgrades and so on but not “basic guy” weaponry
For acos, cutters and drills now better – saws still reasonable though. Looks like Cutters are 3D with -1 to hit, saws 2D, and drills 1D with a special rule (tied to hit roll). All 3 same pts.
4AE gets 27 CP to play with – 12 to start, 1 per turn, 1 gen per turn in some way, and implied to be a cost reduced strat per turn too
Bikes, rockgrinders, acos, sanctus, iconward, primus (with gun) all good
Nexos arguably biggest glow up, now really good
Sanctus with blade and abom both pretty trash
Saboteur gets no support whatsoever in the dex – no real reason to take her
Clamavus, Locus, Alphus and Biophagus interesting options, as are metas, abs, purestrains have merit in some builds
Characters largely feel like that they should have already been for their cost
Big neo blobs not great – one factor might be icons costing a LOT
Basically all the psy powers got worse, combined with magos and patty changes a real debate whether you just ignore them for abhor now
Crossfire on everything that can proc it (except sabo apparently, rip) – i.e. trucks, acos
Hivecult looking strong, custom creeds also very potent
HC best mech cult, FAE DS and CP, PP mass infantry cult, RC closest to unchanged, BC and TH options for muscle beach
Crossfire lost if you soup with nids at all – but not blips!
Dropping trucks outside the DZ from blips is fixed
Minor change to Unquestioning loyalty – but not to “take 1 MW”
Nearly everything in the dex is same or more points, bar abom (goes to <80 but still awful lol). Lists will cost ~150-200 more
Abs go to 2A T5 3w, hit at S8 -2 3D on a 3+, can get a 5++ and transhuman
Stop sign no longer very good, hypermorph just gives +1atk
Metas cause fight last
Rockgrinders go to 12” move, slightly worse melee profile, 3+ save and -1D
1 junk 2 situational secondaries
Broodcoven still a thing and only way for multiple WL traits
All the unit buff upgrades are really good, hard to pick them!
No fearless aura in the dex anymore
Lots of command phase stuff making putting stuff in trucks and DS less ideal as you miss out on them all
Bio still permanent targeted buff, doesn’t kill own guys any more
Psyker relic: +1 deny attempt, +1 to deny witchfires and maybe debuffs, infinite deny range
Crouchling: Reroll 1 failed spell a turn and if you roll doubles it can't be denied
Extra relic for 1/2CP for 1/2
Max crossfire build – maybe try 6x 10 man neos with lasers in trucks?
Clamavus almost 100% different but still decent
Lots of 1cp strats, a handful of 2 cost
Throw multiple nades strat is gone
Our vect becomes same as Deldars’ new vect
Jackals get 3 good new special rules on top of -1 to hit
Only rerolls to hits are largely 1s, one v specific reroll all
Can somehow turn off obsec
Way to get a 96.2% success charge from DS – possibly just for purestrains
The 96% charge or whatever is a 3d6 pick the highest upgrade on one squad, with rerolls and +1-2 to the bonus.
Not sure how 4ae gets 27 cp, its 1x -1 CP cost strat a battle round
From what I've heard, the custom traits you can have more than 2, they each cost 'points' and you 'buy' them up to a certain value. They are very powerful and the original cult traits are generally quite lack lustre..or rather 'confused'? Trying to cover alot of bases where as the custom strats you can focus in on the style you want.
Overall book feels quite weak as a stand alone compared to likes of drukhari which maybe is a good thing.
Bikes are very good
Ridgerunners solid
Abberants aren't core so dont really get any synergy bar biophagus and abominant (who is absolutely dreadful).
Purestrains are 'super stealers' but not core.
you can use command phase buffs when you come out of deep strike once per game
From people who have played it - book feels a bit pulled in many directions? Crossfire is powerful but hard to use and not much synergy for the best shooting units, bar bikes + ridgerunners. If you want to buff them, its hard to buff the infantry who without going all in on, are too weak and dont hit hard enough.
The sniper bike girl is useless
28269
Post by: Red Corsair
Not sure I trust that. Everything just seems kind of vague and or based off things already confirmed.
It's real weird they are claiming blips are remaining when most sources have said the opposite as that mechanic is clunky and worthless on such a small table (besides other armies exploiting screening with them).
At least I hope some of that is bogus, if points went up 150-200 the army is probably DOA. Stuff is just way too expensive currently, making lists more expensive even with a few cute buffs still wont stop the army from being gassed and out of steam by turn 3.
Never the less, thank you very much for compiling it all over here xttz!
7075
Post by: chaos0xomega
GSC losing access to their own terrain piece in their codex seems like a huge slap to the face.
117719
Post by: Sunny Side Up
Red Corsair wrote:Not sure I trust that. Everything just seems kind of vague and or based off things already confirmed.
Reddit post says it's not (new) rumours, but a compilation.
Blips definitely are here to stay. The Shadow Throne Box includes rules for blips for the GSC part.
28269
Post by: Red Corsair
chaos0xomega wrote:GSC losing access to their own terrain piece in their codex seems like a huge slap to the face.
That also gives me pause on those rumors, it would not make much sense to drop it from the faction unless they want to sell less of them purely as terrain. But who knows until this weekend lol.
102719
Post by: Gert
Does the Fragdrill have rules elsewhere in the BRB or something?
28269
Post by: Red Corsair
Sunny Side Up wrote: Red Corsair wrote:Not sure I trust that. Everything just seems kind of vague and or based off things already confirmed.
Reddit post says it's not (new) rumours, but a compilation.
Blips definitely are here to stay. The Shadow Throne Box includes rules for blips for the GSC part.
Well that sucks, blips are a terrible mechanic at 2k IMO. It's just such a huge waste of time and effort. Especially since it's a horde army with a tiny deployment zone.
106711
Post by: Necronmaniac05
Brilliant so another of my armies gets a lackluster codex. I can only hope the custodes codex delivers otherwise I will be in yet another edition where none of my armies are effective given the shambles the necron codex is in.
114240
Post by: Hankovitch
When the sum total of the GSC hype announcements were one "look at our saboteur" article, and a couple of "look at our old artwork" pieces, I had the sinking feeling we were getting a soggy fart of a codex.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
They lose the Fragdrill?
81204
Post by: Dryaktylus
Try to get (or, in some regions, find) it in the online store. There're some weird changes in the range, too. For example here in Germany the female Magus and the Nexos are sold out (like the Fragdrill).
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Wouldn't be shocked if the Fragdrill is dropped because of it just not having been well-received. Would be a shame though, because it was awesome looking.
The Magos and Nexos are likely to be in the Combat Patrol, coupled with the Deathwatch Overkill components.
110309
Post by: ListenToMeWarriors
I am not usually one to boycott releases but if the Guard units (so Brood brothers, hwt's, Sentinels, Russ' and Chimera) are all gone from the codex then I am out. Those 5 and the Drill gone to be replaced by a single Saboteur datasheet would be a ridiculous move.
129388
Post by: Jarms48
ListenToMeWarriors wrote:I am not usually one to boycott releases but if the Guard units (so Brood brothers, hwt's, Sentinels, Russ' and Chimera) are all gone from the codex then I am out. Those 5 and the Drill gone to be replaced by a single Saboteur datasheet would be a ridiculous move.
Yeah, now they expect you to pay CP, and use a worse version of the existing Brood Brothers Detachment rules to take units you already could in the past. It would have been fine if the increased restrictions on current Brood Brothers units came with better buffs. Like giving them the <Cult> keyword.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Well they don't sell actual BB HWTs, Sentinels, Russes or Chimeras kits, so...
Also, in light of the Drill thing, assuming it's true, if you ever wanted one, get one now. GW terrain has a habit of vanishing without warning and never coming back.
110309
Post by: ListenToMeWarriors
H.B.M.C. wrote:Well they don't sell actual BB HWTs, Sentinels, Russes or Chimeras kits, so...
Sadly true, the GSC upgrade sprue was a surprisingly elegant solution to that problem. Whilst not as extensive as the new Templar one it really helped improve the older guard infantry. So do we think the Brood Brother infantry squad will go the way of the dodo and not get an updated box either?
To show my pain, see that amount of Guard units in my army that were in the last GSC codex , all of them bar The Baneblade:
129388
Post by: Jarms48
H.B.M.C. wrote:Well they don't sell actual BB HWTs, Sentinels, Russes or Chimeras kits, so...
The do sell HWTs, you get one in every Brood Brother Infantry Squad box, and the Brood Brother Infantry Squad was also removed from the codex.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nope, no more. Only <Regiment> units now. So no Scions either, cause they're both Militarum Tempestus and <Tempestus Regiment>.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Jarms48 wrote:The do sell HWTs, you get one in every Brood Brother Infantry Squad box, and the Brood Brother Infantry Squad was also removed.
Sorry, I was thinking more of the 3 HW squads, not the gun in the squad. My bad.
110309
Post by: ListenToMeWarriors
If true exchanging:
1 Troop
1 Fast Attack
2 Heavy Support
1 Transport
1 Fortification
Datasheet in exchange for a solitary elite choice, and expecting me to pay for another whole (probably soon to be updated?) codex to be able to field my army is shocking.
69321
Post by: JWBS
Fragdrill has been oop for some time now, as reflected in the ebay pricing.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Well, prophesy fulfilled I guess: Without warning and without reason.
21358
Post by: Dysartes
Like Germany, the UK store has the Fragdrill, female Magus and the Nexos showing as "No longer available online".
Given how GW's store operates, however, that could mean they're actually gone, or it could just mean a 2022 "9th ed style" new set of packaging for them.
We'll have to wait and see which is the case.
69321
Post by: JWBS
I'm predicting oop because I was looking for it a few weeks ago and it appears unavailable from my usual sellers (un-searchable for one of them) and then there's the ever ambiguous GW "Unavailable", but yeah could be another case of mixed messaging. Maybe some repackaging for the upcoming GSC releases? I hope so.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Well, the Big'ed Bossbunka completely vanished from the website - not even searchable - for a while.
I asked GW about it and they said it was a mistake.
69321
Post by: JWBS
It would be a weird move to dump the fragdrill but yeah as we all know it's well documented that they do this with terrain. The Sector Imperialis terrain is still good, but those big statues still haven't resurfaced from oop purgatory. Fingers crossed the Fragdrill is just temp unavailable.
26519
Post by: xttz
Some terrain kits have been made in China before, so it could be a supply issue. Possible that the kit comes back into stock but not until a while after the codex release.
85326
Post by: Arbitrator
I'm surprised they just never made faction terrain cost 0 points like it is in AoS. Seemed a good way to get most people to buy a kit they otherwise wouldn't.
26519
Post by: xttz
Arbitrator wrote:I'm surprised they just never made faction terrain cost 0 points like it is in AoS. Seemed a good way to get most people to buy a kit they otherwise wouldn't.
There's a much wider variety in 40k terrain than AOS. Most of the latter were produced specifically for that rule and are a similar scale, while 40k has a history of larger terrain pieces specifically intended for larger Apocalypse or Planetstrike games. It would be a bit arbitrary which terrain pieces could be free without introducing auto-include options.
For 40K it might make more sense if they just scrapped the fortification detachment altogether and just assigned a CP cost to each terrain piece instead. So for example a Mekboy Workshop is 1CP while a Fortress of Redemption could be 4CP.
This is all dependent on them fixing the 9E fortification deployment rules too of course.
126443
Post by: Matrindur
Arbitrator wrote:I'm surprised they just never made faction terrain cost 0 points like it is in AoS. Seemed a good way to get most people to buy a kit they otherwise wouldn't.
I think originally they wanted to make something like AoS faction terrain in 40k since the first three armies got terrain (Space Marine bunker, Necron starsteles and Death Guard chimney) but discarded that idea pretty soon in development which is why no army after that got something. For the first half of AoS 2nd edition nearly every army got endless spells and a terrain piece but in the later half that also stopped so maybe they just saw that it wasn't worth it and only released what was already designed for SM/Necrons/ DG.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
 Article about the Primus today. Automatically Appended Next Post:  Matrindur wrote: Arbitrator wrote:I'm surprised they just never made faction terrain cost 0 points like it is in AoS. Seemed a good way to get most people to buy a kit they otherwise wouldn't.
I think originally they wanted to make something like AoS faction terrain in 40k since the first three armies got terrain (Space Marine bunker, Necron starsteles and Death Guard chimney) but discarded that idea pretty soon in development which is why no army after that got something. For the first half of AoS 2nd edition nearly every army got endless spells and a terrain piece but in the later half that also stopped so maybe they just saw that it wasn't worth it and only released what was already designed for SM/Necrons/ DG.
Orks got a terrain piece. They've technically got two at this point between the Gargant head bunker and the Mek Workshop. Sisters got a terrain piece too. There isn't really a rhyme or reason behind this stuff.
126443
Post by: Matrindur
Kanluwen wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Matrindur wrote: Arbitrator wrote:I'm surprised they just never made faction terrain cost 0 points like it is in AoS. Seemed a good way to get most people to buy a kit they otherwise wouldn't.
I think originally they wanted to make something like AoS faction terrain in 40k since the first three armies got terrain (Space Marine bunker, Necron starsteles and Death Guard chimney) but discarded that idea pretty soon in development which is why no army after that got something. For the first half of AoS 2nd edition nearly every army got endless spells and a terrain piece but in the later half that also stopped so maybe they just saw that it wasn't worth it and only released what was already designed for SM/Necrons/ DG.
Orks got a terrain piece. They've technically got two at this point between the Gargant head bunker and the Mek Workshop.
Sisters got a terrain piece too.
There isn't really a rhyme or reason behind this stuff.
Right forgot about the ork bunker but the sisters one and the mek workshop was pre 9th so I didn't count it here. Then you would also have to count the GSC Drill, Webway Portal, CSM Noctilith Crown, Tau Tidewall and that IK Forgeshrine.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Matrindur wrote:
Right forgot about the ork bunker but the sisters one and the mek workshop was pre 9th so I didn't count it here. Then you would also have to count the GSC Drill, Webway Portal, CSM Noctilith Crown, Tau Tidewall and that IK Forgeshrine.
Sisters one was pre-9th, but it's still in their 9E codex.
All of the ones you named are awaiting releases of their codices. We'll have to see what's happening. Worth mentioning though that the IK Forgeshrine was tagged under the AdMech range up until the most recent AdMech book removed all Knights from their roster.
I wouldn't be shocked if the GSC drill was removed from the book to become a generic scenery piece down the line. They still haven't released the STC prefab stuff that the Kelermorph and Techpriest Manipulus both came with.
69321
Post by: JWBS
The Fronteris was re-released as a killzone.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
JWBS wrote:The Fronteris was re-released as a killzone.
It was a Killzone to begin with. It's no longer available again, if it was in fact re-released.
The problem, bluntly, is that it had a weird release. It came out alongside of the Manipulus and Kelermorph Kill-Teams...and then when those sold out they got marked as "temporarily out of stock", until they just poof'd off the webpage.
69321
Post by: JWBS
Yes it was re-released w/o the miniatures and is again no longer available now. Suffered from the same availability problems as a lot of GW terrain, only more so.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
You're conflating two different things.
Real-quick:
There was the single frame of ruins, crate, and escape hatch that came with each of the Kill-Teams.
The Killzone was the big buildings. That included no models.
69321
Post by: JWBS
The killzone has the ruins also, it's only missing the hatch and that little barricade thing. The more substantial bits (ruined wall sections) are near pretty much identical to the killzone ruin sections. Different sprue though.
126443
Post by: Matrindur
Kanluwen wrote: Matrindur wrote:
Right forgot about the ork bunker but the sisters one and the mek workshop was pre 9th so I didn't count it here. Then you would also have to count the GSC Drill, Webway Portal, CSM Noctilith Crown, Tau Tidewall and that IK Forgeshrine.
Sisters one was pre-9th, but it's still in their 9E codex.
All of the ones you named are awaiting releases of their codices. We'll have to see what's happening. Worth mentioning though that the IK Forgeshrine was tagged under the AdMech range up until the most recent AdMech book removed all Knights from their roster.
I wouldn't be shocked if the GSC drill was removed from the book to become a generic scenery piece down the line. They still haven't released the STC prefab stuff that the Kelermorph and Techpriest Manipulus both came with.
Well the Drill, Forgeshrine and Sisters one may be in their codex but they also are all part of actual terrain lines with Sector Mechanicus and Sector Imperialis, thats why I didn't count them. The Mek Workshop also kind of falls in there as its part of the terrain line that first showed up in Speed Freaks and got some more in Kill Team Octarius. The Bossbunka does have similar optics but is still feels different to me since it has weapons so you can use it as an actual unit not just a terrain piece with slapped on rules.
The Webway portal and the Tau Tidewall are actual faction terrain but are pretty old so they wouldn't be part of a faction terrain plan like the one in AoS GW had in the last years , so the only one that could actually have been part of something like that (Except the four 9th edition ones) would be the Noctilith Crown.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
There's at least three of them in this recent photo, but that could be an old photo I suppose:  Also I don't understand why being a meticulous planner would make it so your troops wound things more easily. Of course now I'm imagining a Primus yelling "Their armour is weak at the neck and under the arms!" to his men as a horde of Orks comes towards them. Also yay... transhuman...
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Matrindur wrote: Well the Drill, Forgeshrine and Sisters one may be in their codex but they also are all part of actual terrain lines with Sector Mechanicus and Sector Imperialis, thats why I didn't count them.
Honestly? It feels like you're just cherrypicking what you want. The Mek Workshop also kind of falls in there as its part of the terrain line that first showed up in Speed Freaks and got some more in Kill Team Octarius. The Bossbunka does have similar optics but is still feels different to me since it has weapons so you can use it as an actual unit not just a terrain piece with slapped on rules.
The Mek Workshop was closer to what most people were expecting for faction terrain to be in the first place. Something small and relatively portable for players but not necessarily a full on "fortification" piece. The Bossbunka is the fortification piece that one would have expected back in the days of Apocalypse, Planetstrike, or Stronghold Assault. It's big. It has guns(like the Bastion, Firestorm Redoubt, and Gunrig) and bolsters commanders hunkered down inside.
The Webway portal and the Tau Tidewall are actual faction terrain but are pretty old so they wouldn't be part of a faction terrain plan like the one in AoS GW had in the last years , so the only one that could actually have been part of something like that (Except the four 9th edition ones) would be the Noctilith Crown.
The Webway Gate is from 8th edition. It was part of the Codex drop for Craftworlds. The Tau Tidewall came out with the Damocles Gulf Crusade books(Kau'yon and Mont'ka) in 7E. It debuted as part of the "updated" codex from the outset. To circle back to my comment about cherrypicking? C: Sisters of Battle dropped in 8th, with the scenery as part of it. It then dropped again in 9th, also with the scenery as part of it. If Tau don't have their Tidewall stuff or if CSM don't have their Noctilith Crown? I'll believe the hype that it's a dead concept for 40k. As it stands, the Fragdrill was a terrain piece that never really stood out as anything but a cool piece for modelers. For all we know it's being pulled back to get redesigned to come with a truck variant to tow it, since the most common thing one would see it being used for was with a Deathstrike or a Goliath towing it.
28269
Post by: Red Corsair
Wow, so the primus seems like junk lol. The ability procs in the command phase, so if I'm ambushing, I can't use it, and if I'm using trucks and transporting, I can't use it...
Meanwhile every other faction with this ability not only has this in aura form which is better, but it's a passive trait that isn't tied to the command phase.
He was originally designed for aiding in ambushes and actually was incredibly valuable, now he is just a dork with a situational aura, oops! Sorry, targeted ability that I can apparently pay points into so one time in the game I can theoretically give it to two units.
Somebody tell me I'm missing something here...
Also that heroic intervention strat is one of the worst intervention strats they have produced. Instead of just giving strat to herioc intervene with a unit near the 3 said models they had to add the additional stipulation that those characters already have to be engaged, except this happens in your opponents turn so unless your playing fast and loose and exposing those 3 characters this is never coming into play lol.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
You're just going to have to plan out how you use it. Y'know, meticulously! "I get every detail ready, right down to the smallest variables! My troops know that if they stick to my plan, our enemies will fall faster before our might. Unless they're in a vehicle, I don't know how to plan for that. Or waiting in ambush, those sorts of ploys are beyond me, apparently. But hey, my pistol shoots further now, so that's nice!"
28269
Post by: Red Corsair
126443
Post by: Matrindur
Honestly? It is kind of cherrypicking. After all all I was doing was subjectively grouping up the different terrain pieces. But in the end what I wanted to say was there are some terrain pieces like the GSC/Sisters/IK/Mekboy ones which, to me at least, feel like terrain pieces that started as general terrain but where repurposed as faction terrain by adding some details so they would fit their factions. The others instead look like they where designed from the ground up to be terrain for their factions.
The Webway Gate is from 8th edition. It was part of the Codex drop for Craftworlds.
Sorry about the Webway Gate, thought it was pre 8th, my mistake here.
If Tau don't have their Tidewall stuff or if CSM don't have their Noctilith Crown? I'll believe the hype that it's a dead concept for 40k. As it stands, the Fragdrill was a terrain piece that never really stood out as anything but a cool piece for modelers. For all we know it's being pulled back to get redesigned to come with a truck variant to tow it, since the most common thing one would see it being used for was with a Deathstrike or a Goliath towing it.
Also I wasn't trying to say faction terrain is dead and we won't be getting anything else ever, just that I would have actually liked every army to get one and that may have been the plan once but doesn't seem to be the case anymore
26519
Post by: xttz
Red Corsair wrote:Wow, so the primus seems like junk lol. The ability procs in the command phase, so if I'm ambushing, I can't use it, and if I'm using trucks and transporting, I can't use it...
Meanwhile every other faction with this ability not only has this in aura form which is better, but it's a passive trait that isn't tied to the command phase.
He was originally designed for aiding in ambushes and actually was incredibly valuable, now he is just a dork with a situational aura, oops! Sorry, targeted ability that I can apparently pay points into so one time in the game I can theoretically give it to two units.
Somebody tell me I'm missing something here...
Unconfirmed, but the rumour dump on the previous page says:
"you can use command phase buffs when you come out of deep strike once per game"
Matrindur wrote:
Also I wasn't trying to say faction terrain is dead and we won't be getting anything else ever, just that I would have actually liked every army to get one and that may have been the plan once but doesn't seem to be the case anymore
If Tyranids don't get plastic spore chimneys with their next codex in 2026 I'm marching on Lenton
117719
Post by: Sunny Side Up
Well, Death Guard thingy, the three crumbling Necron-things and the Hammerfall Bunker were new faction-terrain first released in 9th.
28269
Post by: Red Corsair
xttz wrote: Red Corsair wrote:Wow, so the primus seems like junk lol. The ability procs in the command phase, so if I'm ambushing, I can't use it, and if I'm using trucks and transporting, I can't use it...
Meanwhile every other faction with this ability not only has this in aura form which is better, but it's a passive trait that isn't tied to the command phase.
He was originally designed for aiding in ambushes and actually was incredibly valuable, now he is just a dork with a situational aura, oops! Sorry, targeted ability that I can apparently pay points into so one time in the game I can theoretically give it to two units.
Somebody tell me I'm missing something here...
Unconfirmed, but the rumour dump on the previous page says:
"you can use command phase buffs when you come out of deep strike once per game"
Barf!
Why must they over complicate everything! Just give him a frickin aura and if you want it to be limited to fewer units shorten the range to 3" rather then extending it out to 9"...
That also would only kinda fix half that blunder. Things getting out of the transport would still not work most of the time unless he's deepstriking up alone to where they are disembarking I guess?
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Weird that AdMech didn't get something cool. Dark Eldar I get - why would they be bringing terrain to the battlefield? - and as Grotsnik once suggested, some sort of 'Silver Spires' terrain piece for 1KSons would've been great (in the same style as the Necron Convergence of Dominion, with two hovering spires that create a shield or a psychic barrier or whatever).
What else has come out this edition that either didn't already have one or wasn't some variety of Space Marine?
116670
Post by: Ordana
Red Corsair wrote:Wow, so the primus seems like junk lol. The ability procs in the command phase, so if I'm ambushing, I can't use it, and if I'm using trucks and transporting, I can't use it...
Meanwhile every other faction with this ability not only has this in aura form which is better, but it's a passive trait that isn't tied to the command phase.
He was originally designed for aiding in ambushes and actually was incredibly valuable, now he is just a dork with a situational aura, oops! Sorry, targeted ability that I can apparently pay points into so one time in the game I can theoretically give it to two units.
Somebody tell me I'm missing something here...
Also that heroic intervention strat is one of the worst intervention strats they have produced. Instead of just giving strat to herioc intervene with a unit near the 3 said models they had to add the additional stipulation that those characters already have to be engaged, except this happens in your opponents turn so unless your playing fast and loose and exposing those 3 characters this is never coming into play lol.
The intervention strat looks designed to allow you to save a character if the opponent manages to find a gap to charge them (because with the intervene you presumably get close enough for Unquestionable Loyalty.
94103
Post by: Yarium
His reroll bubble is ongoing, like most others. His "activated ability" is Command Phase, just like every other unit that activates - such as a Chapter Master giving full rerolls instead of the reroll 1's to a selected CORE unit. At least we can actually select non-CORE units with our ability! Even if only once per game - that's something no one else can yet do.
28269
Post by: Red Corsair
 Yarium wrote:
His reroll bubble is ongoing, like most others. His "activated ability" is Command Phase, just like every other unit that activates - such as a Chapter Master giving full rerolls instead of the reroll 1's to a selected CORE unit. At least we can actually select non-CORE units with our ability! Even if only once per game - that's something no one else can yet do.
What passive re-roll ability? The article doesn't show what your suggesting. It literally only shows meticulous planner as being a targeted buff. Automatically Appended Next Post: Ordana wrote: Red Corsair wrote:Wow, so the primus seems like junk lol. The ability procs in the command phase, so if I'm ambushing, I can't use it, and if I'm using trucks and transporting, I can't use it...
Meanwhile every other faction with this ability not only has this in aura form which is better, but it's a passive trait that isn't tied to the command phase.
He was originally designed for aiding in ambushes and actually was incredibly valuable, now he is just a dork with a situational aura, oops! Sorry, targeted ability that I can apparently pay points into so one time in the game I can theoretically give it to two units.
Somebody tell me I'm missing something here...
Also that heroic intervention strat is one of the worst intervention strats they have produced. Instead of just giving strat to herioc intervene with a unit near the 3 said models they had to add the additional stipulation that those characters already have to be engaged, except this happens in your opponents turn so unless your playing fast and loose and exposing those 3 characters this is never coming into play lol.
The intervention strat looks designed to allow you to save a character if the opponent manages to find a gap to charge them (because with the intervene you presumably get close enough for Unquestionable Loyalty.
Right, which the scenario I was speaking of where you exposed one of 3 specific character models to be the targets of charges. The conditions for that strat are terrible IMO.
117719
Post by: Sunny Side Up
Yarium wrote:
His reroll bubble is ongoing, like most others. His "activated ability" is Command Phase, just like every other unit that activates - such as a Chapter Master giving full rerolls instead of the reroll 1's to a selected CORE unit. At least we can actually select non-CORE units with our ability! Even if only once per game - that's something no one else can yet do.
He has no bubble.
He can give 1 core-unit a re-roll 1s to wound in the command phase.
Also, there's an upgrade purchase available (yes, similar to a Chapter Master), that gives him a once-a-game glow up of his ability (decidedly weaker than the Chapter Master equivalent, even if it weren't a once-a-game-thing, which Chapter Master isn't either)
94103
Post by: Yarium
Sunny Side Up wrote:He has no bubble.
He can give 1 core-unit a re-roll 1s to wound in the command phase.
Also, there's an upgrade purchase available (yes, similar to a Chapter Master), that gives him a once-a-game glow up of his ability (decidedly weaker than the Chapter Master equivalent, even if it weren't a once-a-game-thing, which Chapter Master isn't either)
From the Shadowthrone box (which we can assume are what his new rules are, and which match up exactly with what has been released so far, because this box was supposed to drop at the same time as the codex):
Cult Demagogue [Aura]: While a friendly <CULT> CORE unit is within 6" of this model, each time a model in that unit makes an attack, re-roll a hit roll of 1.
So yes, he has an aura - a "bubble".
113031
Post by: Voss
H.B.M.C. wrote:You're just going to have to plan out how you use it. Y'know, meticulously!
I do love when they lampshade their abilities by mocking how stupid they are (in this case the article mocking planning for 'feral mutants')
But the lampshade doesn't make it not stupid.
100848
Post by: tneva82
Matrindur wrote:
Also I wasn't trying to say faction terrain is dead and we won't be getting anything else ever, just that I would have actually liked every army to get one and that may have been the plan once but doesn't seem to be the case anymore
That was assumption when those started first time appearing with ork mek workshop etc. Didnt pan out.
There was also assumption in AOS all would get it and endless spells. Neither have appeared for all.
126443
Post by: Matrindur
Here are the points and point upgrades from the new codex and its just pure GSC units, no Guard units or the Tectonic Fragdrill
26519
Post by: xttz
Matrindur wrote:
Here are the points and point upgrades from the new codex and its just pure GSC units, no Guard units or the Tectonic Fragdrill
Thanks, that pretty much confirms the other rumours on pg14 then
Edit:
Abominant -15pts and moved to Elites
Alphus +5pts
Iconward +15pts
Magus -5pts
Patriarch +5pts
Primus -5pts
Acolytes 8ppm > 9ppm
Aberrants flat 30ppm, no weapon choices
Clamavus -10pts
Locus +5pts
Nexos -5pts
Metamorphs 13ppm > 12ppm
Purestrain 15ppm > 14ppm
Sanctus +5pts
Ridgerunner +10pts
Goliath Rockgrinder +15pts
Goliath Truck +15pts
33527
Post by: Niiai
That does not seem to bad. Handflamer acolytes up to 12 points
Truck up to 90 hurts.
20 shotgun Neophytes with lying in wait is only 140. (I do not know if they need lying in wait.)
Our time is nigh is a cute one for 10 points.
But where did our heavy support slot go? I suddenly own a guard detachment.
107289
Post by: Kitane
Unit sizes have changed. Neophytes, Acolytes and Metamorphs are 5-15... (wait what?...)
Jackals are max 8+2 wolfquads
edit: according to discord, Neophytes are still 10-20, it's a typo.
33527
Post by: Niiai
Is is day minus 8, and we already have an FAQ for a typo?
110309
Post by: ListenToMeWarriors
1 heavy support option? We are being spoiled. The removal of 6 datasheets to be replaced by 1 is absolute rubbish. Guess it saves me 25 to 30 quid on buying the codex.
72249
Post by: beast_gts
Kitane wrote:Unit sizes have changed. Neophytes, Acolytes and Metamorphs are 5-15... (wait what?...)
Jackals are max 8+2 wolfquads
edit: according to discord, Neophytes are still 10-20, it's a typo.
I can believe Neophytes being capped at 15 - that way they're still stuck with 2 Heavy & 2 Special Weapons per unit.
116670
Post by: Ordana
Neophytes (and Acolytes) are 5-15 so you can't do 20 ^^.
Why 15? Probably to not have to put in double the heavy weapons at 20? I donno.
Lying in wait for 20 seems acceptable tho. It really helps with threatening objectives.
Planner at 15 feel garbage.
Trap sprung, 15 points for 3d6, highest 2 charge. If I'm correct thats about a 50% chance to make a 9" charge. Which is not reliable enough in my opinion. If +1 to charge from 4AE still exists it goes up to 70%. might be good enough
15 for Perfect Ambush with an acolyte unit full of flamers feels like good value just for the +1 to wound.
From every angle, What is the point of this? Isn't Cult ambush strickly better? Is it just to reserve more then 50%? prob don't want to pay points for that.
extra power for 15 points, if you can't cast more, what is the point?
Excavate, feels like very expensive for 20 points. Tho 1 unit might be worth it in a shooting army to nerf a key terrain piece in your opponents deployment zone?
Came from Below, if we have a source of advance and charge this could be a fun turn 1 charge that you can reserve instead if the opportunity is not there.
Time is Nigh, Fun on a big unit but a reliable charge is much much more important.
All the stuff getting more expensive has me very worried tho. GSC are not good currently and I don't think we have really seen anything that would warrent a higher price for so many units.
Getting +1T on Acolytes isn't going to significantly change the math.
126443
Post by: Matrindur
More pages
4720
Post by: The Phazer
Time to paint up some neophytes with Seismic Cannons I guess.
116670
Post by: Ordana
Damn for a moment I thought this meant Abberrants going to T6, but its only T5.
But does this mean the -1 to hit is gone from the Heavy Power Weapon? If so that's nice.
33527
Post by: Niiai
Who ever write those articles are getting so little assistance. Mining lasers already where Dd6. The original codex had different entries for it and it was erataed to Dd6. Although the neophyte entry said Dd3.
That asiside it looks like we might be getting there.
4720
Post by: The Phazer
I can't say I'm a big fan of the fact we now have to pay CP to continue taking our only proper Heavy Support choice in cult LRs.
I'm guessing there's no freebee detachments for that.
33527
Post by: Niiai
Are you talking about the leman russ or the heavy weapon teams?
I quite preferred the rock grinder in a transport heavy list.
110309
Post by: ListenToMeWarriors
Niiai wrote:Are you talking about the leman russ or the heavy weapon teams?
I quite preferred the rock grinder in a transport heavy list.
I preferred having the option of either or both. The heavy support slot has seen a 66.6 recurring% reduction in options, 33.3% in troops, 33.3% in fast attack, 50% in transports. In an era when the Marine codex is full to the seams of multiple options, many to the point of redundancy, I am not sure why the GSC codex has been gutted. There are already so few GSC armies out there...this is not going to help that.
33527
Post by: Niiai
What would help that would be a cheap source of GSC models. Let's hoped the combat patroll is good. :-)
123292
Post by: Madjob
I'd really like to see subfactions at this point, the melee half of that strat is worthless for Twisted Helix as it's currently written: we are already past the S9 breakpoint for all industrial melee weapons, unless the squad leader power picks are one (but who would spend cp on that?!).
33527
Post by: Niiai
I just read it as all weapons. But if there is a sublist of industrial weapons it is jot as good. (I imagined S5 shotguns with D2.)
116670
Post by: Ordana
it says industrial weapons so yes I assume there will be a sublist of what industrial weapons are (most likely the Mining Laser/Seismic cannon/Drill/Cutter/Saw
722
Post by: Kanluwen
Isn't there a Heavy version of the Mining Laser/Seismic Cannon?
110309
Post by: ListenToMeWarriors
Given the way that the slots have worked out is GSC now the most elite army in the game?
101864
Post by: Dudeface
Niiai wrote:What would help that would be a cheap source of GSC models. Let's hoped the combat patroll is good. :-)
I saw that points list and with the guard unit removal all I thought was "they're going to continue being the most prohibitively expensive army in the game" I'm not really sure who they're aimed at any more daft as that sounds.
105665
Post by: Spreelock
Damn, that hivecult seems very strong. I'm already thinking at 3x10 neophytes from deep strike to the centre of the board, supported by characters, and then sprinkle small units with lying in wait from deep strike to expose enemy units.
116670
Post by: Ordana
Only just realised. "From Every Angle" says it allows turn 1 deepstrike because it counts as 1 turn later for Strategic Reserves, but does this overwrite the Match Play specific rule that prohibits turn 1 deepstrikes?
33527
Post by: Niiai
That is a good question. I guess it will be FAQed. After all a lot of models can deeps trike T1, but matched play keeps them from doing so. The drop pod bypasses this of course.
But if GSC has some form of innate deeps trike and can deeps trike where they want turn 2 anyway I would suspect that it is there to allow T1 shenanigans. But we lack to much information.
28269
Post by: Red Corsair
Man they cocked up the points again... Geeeeze.... A 10 man neophyte squad with two grenade launchers and 2 mining lasers in a truck was 165 and now has ballooned to 190...
Sure the truck has a 3+ save, and the unit crossfire, but that unit wasn't moving mountains or mole hills in all my test games recently using the new previewed rules and it just evaporates to any attention.
Really disappointing that the Goliaths got point increases, rugged construction had better be extremely powerful to justify that.
Looks like abberants are probably the number one melee option, unless purestrains edge them out.
I love all the unit upgrades, but again, points seem steep as hell and for some reason don't scale with unit size. I understand why excavate would have a flat cost, but surely lying in wait or perfect ambush etc should all have a certain price per 'x' models rather then a flat cost.
The characters are all very pricey too, really hoping they all got heavy reworks.
105665
Post by: Spreelock
Ordana wrote:Only just realised. "From Every Angle" says it allows turn 1 deepstrike because it counts as 1 turn later for Strategic Reserves, but does this overwrite the Match Play specific rule that prohibits turn 1 deepstrikes?
The second bullet point specifies that the unit can arrive at first turn... From the strategic reserve. So no deep strike.
28269
Post by: Red Corsair
Niiai wrote:That is a good question. I guess it will be FAQed. After all a lot of models can deeps trike T1, but matched play keeps them from doing so. The drop pod bypasses this of course.
But if GSC has some form of innate deeps trike and can deeps trike where they want turn 2 anyway I would suspect that it is there to allow T1 shenanigans. But we lack to much information.
Ordana wrote:Only just realised. "From Every Angle" says it allows turn 1 deepstrike because it counts as 1 turn later for Strategic Reserves, but does this overwrite the Match Play specific rule that prohibits turn 1 deepstrikes?
I don't think this needs a FAQ. Specific over rides general. I think it's fully intentional otherwise whats the point in the upgrade? Everything has to be in the swimming pool by T3, so it guess you could remain off until turn 4? That would not be a very goo benefit and strictly worse then reentering reserve like nearly every book can do.
I think the ability isn't even that good in 9th, in fact I think it's needed to help keep an army of chaf in the game. Reserving much of your army with GSC in 9th can be an auto loss going second currently as the small table then allows them two movement phases to block the table off. 9/10 times you end up back in your deployment zone filling in the holes from your dead deployed models lol.
26519
Post by: xttz
Red Corsair wrote:Man they cocked up the points again... Geeeeze.... A 10 man neophyte squad with two grenade launchers and 2 mining lasers in a truck was 165 and now has ballooned to 190...
Sure the truck has a 3+ save, and the unit crossfire, but that unit wasn't moving mountains or mole hills in all my test games recently using the new previewed rules and it just evaporates to any attention.
Really disappointing that the Goliaths got point increases, rugged construction had better be extremely powerful to justify that.
Looks like abberants are probably the number one melee option, unless purestrains edge them out.
I love all the unit upgrades, but again, points seem steep as hell and for some reason don't scale with unit size. I understand why excavate would have a flat cost, but surely lying in wait or perfect ambush etc should all have a certain price per 'x' models rather then a flat cost.
The characters are all very pricey too, really hoping they all got heavy reworks.
Purestrains are apparently -1ppm, 4++, with rending claws changing to flat AP-3 and +1 damage on a 6.
Rugged construction is now -1D. There's also WS3+ on the rockgrinder and general weapon improvements such as flat damage:
113142
Post by: Astmeister
Wow that rockgrinder is awesome. A much better carnifex who can transport!
Also purestrains sound nasty.
28269
Post by: Red Corsair
Hmmm, not sure thats what they needed, if bladed cog is still a 6++ and everything has it, that would help the trucks quite a bit.
Really hilarious (sad) the cache of demo charges still requires a unit on board the vehicle yet costs points as an upgrade. Why not just tack it on for free for flavor?
A was hoping the grinder did mortals as impacts, considering mobile trash heap buggies got it for orks I figured it would happen on the one heavy choice in the entire book. It might be a strat, but that isn't the same.
I do like the rock grinder quite a bit, sad mine all have the incinerator as it's clearly the worst option. In fact I am not sure how much more obvious they could have made the choice for the seizemic canon lmao.
Purestrains do seem gross. its 2 for 28 which is less then the 30 for an ab... not sure who is better although the ab seems more tuned for it's purpose.
116670
Post by: Ordana
 Spreelock wrote: Ordana wrote:Only just realised. "From Every Angle" says it allows turn 1 deepstrike because it counts as 1 turn later for Strategic Reserves, but does this overwrite the Match Play specific rule that prohibits turn 1 deepstrikes?
The second bullet point specifies that the unit can arrive at first turn... From the strategic reserve. So no deep strike.
yes, my fault for use deepstrike as a catch all term I guess.
My issue is that the rules say In Grand Tournament 2021 missions, Strategic
Reserve and Reinforcement units can never
arrive on the battlefield in the first battle round
The 'base' rules allow turn 1 reinforcements and would allow turn 1 strategic reserve with the 'counts as 1 turn later' from 'From Every Angle'.
But does this also overwrite the specific GT mission rule that prevent all Reinforcement and Strategic Reserve on turn 1.
I don't think this is as simple as 'specific overwrites general' because many codexes have 'specific' rules for Reinforcements that don't exclude turn 1 because the base rules don't prevent turn 1 Reinforcements.
The Drop Pod on the other hand specifically says "ignore any mission rules". From Every Angle, does not include that wording.
33527
Post by: Niiai
Red Corsair wrote:Niiai wrote:That is a good question. I guess it will be FAQed. After all a lot of models can deeps trike T1, but matched play keeps them from doing so. The drop pod bypasses this of course.
But if GSC has some form of innate deeps trike and can deeps trike where they want turn 2 anyway I would suspect that it is there to allow T1 shenanigans. But we lack to much information.
Ordana wrote:Only just realised. "From Every Angle" says it allows turn 1 deepstrike because it counts as 1 turn later for Strategic Reserves, but does this overwrite the Match Play specific rule that prohibits turn 1 deepstrikes?
I don't think this needs a FAQ. Specific over rides general. I think it's fully intentional otherwise whats the point in the upgrade? Everything has to be in the swimming pool by T3, so it guess you could remain off until turn 4? That would not be a very goo benefit and strictly worse then reentering reserve like nearly every book can do.
I think the ability isn't even that good in 9th, in fact I think it's needed to help keep an army of chaf in the game. Reserving much of your army with GSC in 9th can be an auto loss going second currently as the small table then allows them two movement phases to block the table off. 9/10 times you end up back in your deployment zone filling in the holes from your dead deployed models lol.
You might be right but here was my thinking.
The reserve stratagem does not allow you to come on turn one usually, but the GSC pushes this up one turn.
There are many units that can deep strike (start in teleport Homer, hide on the battlefield, etc ( a narrative justification. )) However, what is keeping these deep strike units from coming on turn one are the mission rules. The same rules that keep them from deeps tricking turn one will also prevent GSC to come in turn 1.
I don't claim any certainty on this subject at the moment. Somebody more into the rules then me would have to hash it out.
Edit: I see others are thinking the same thing.
But is not the reserve stratagem quite bad? The places we can come on are quite bad. (One notable exception, we can get on our deployment zone within 6 of the enemy I believe.) Automatically Appended Next Post: Have anybody seen and chances of charging from reserve? I see we can charge 3d6 discard lowest. And four armed emperor let's us re-roll the charge. But we need something more to make it more reliable. Automatically Appended Next Post: So this Zara Kane is hitting them out of the ballpark. All sorts of leaks.
https://youtu.be/W8SQUUR7xkk
28269
Post by: Red Corsair
4 armed emperor seems strong with melee units from reserve when paired with the upgrade for 3d6 pick the two highest.
I am really liking the pauper princes though, that relic for 5++ aura is pretty solid.
116670
Post by: Ordana
Red Corsair wrote:4 armed emperor seems strong with melee units from reserve when paired with the upgrade for 3d6 pick the two highest.
I am really liking the pauper princes though, that relic for 5++ aura is pretty solid.
The old +1 charge distance was better imo because that still left the option to CP re-roll
28269
Post by: Red Corsair
Ordana wrote: Red Corsair wrote:4 armed emperor seems strong with melee units from reserve when paired with the upgrade for 3d6 pick the two highest.
I am really liking the pauper princes though, that relic for 5++ aura is pretty solid.
The old +1 charge distance was better imo because that still left the option to CP re-roll
Sure but in the comments there is still a way to get an 8" charge apparently and I'd rather have a reroll for everything.
I think the custom cult mechanic is the best one yet for 9th. Finally they managed to find a way to apply balance to the different values of abilities.
117925
Post by: Bago
I saw a leak of the rules that said that every model set up underground could either deep strike outside of 8" instead of 9" or outside of 6" but cant charge.
72249
Post by: beast_gts
Genestealer Cults - 22 datasheets (112-page total): Adeptus Custodes - 20 datasheets (104-page total): Automatically Appended Next Post: EDIT: And the blips are still a thing...
123292
Post by: Madjob
Bago wrote:I saw a leak of the rules that said that every model set up underground could either deep strike outside of 8" instead of 9" or outside of 6" but cant charge.
Yes. In addition, any unit that has an ability that is activated in the command phase can activate it once per game after arriving as reinforcements in the movement phase.
35310
Post by: the_scotsman
Ordana wrote: Red Corsair wrote:4 armed emperor seems strong with melee units from reserve when paired with the upgrade for 3d6 pick the two highest.
I am really liking the pauper princes though, that relic for 5++ aura is pretty solid.
The old +1 charge distance was better imo because that still left the option to CP re-roll
Well, I have good news: Everyone has that.
Part of Cult Ambush is that all units can set up outside 8", or outside 6" but can't charge.
Everyone gets the +1 charge distance. And also, you can bring an Iconward for a second +1", and if you really want, buy the upgrade for 3d6" take the highest 2 charge.
28269
Post by: Red Corsair
 the_scotsman wrote: Ordana wrote: Red Corsair wrote:4 armed emperor seems strong with melee units from reserve when paired with the upgrade for 3d6 pick the two highest.
I am really liking the pauper princes though, that relic for 5++ aura is pretty solid.
The old +1 charge distance was better imo because that still left the option to CP re-roll
Well, I have good news: Everyone has that.
Part of Cult Ambush is that all units can set up outside 8", or outside 6" but can't charge.
Everyone gets the +1 charge distance. And also, you can bring an Iconward for a second +1", and if you really want, buy the upgrade for 3d6" take the highest 2 charge.
Where did you find that info? The leaks seemed to have dried up for whatever reason.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
Red Corsair wrote:Really hilarious (sad) the cache of demo charges still requires a unit on board the vehicle yet costs points as an upgrade. Why not just tack it on for free for flavor?
Look on the bright side, the upgrade could have changed into a Keyword that gives you access to a 1 CP 'Cache of Demo Charges' strat instead, like so many other pieces of vehicle equipment.
21358
Post by: Dysartes
Niiai wrote:I just read it as all weapons. But if there is a sublist of industrial weapons it is jot as good. (I imagined S5 shotguns with D2.)
Another instance where using the keyword system on weapons when they introduced it in 8th for units would've been a smart idea - would've been crystal clear which weapons it applied to by looking to see if the keyword INDUSTRIAL was in there.
As it is, there's probably a list in the book confirming which they are - or I hope there is, anyway.
126443
Post by: Matrindur
Here are both Combat Patrols:
Custodes
Custodian Guard
Vertus Praetors
2x Sisters of Silence
GSC
If I count correctly thats:
2x Neophyte Hybrids
Acolyte Hybrids/Hybrid Metamorphs
Aberrants
Magus
Goliath Rockgrinder/Goliath Truck
which would be the best Combat Patrol up to now price wise
69321
Post by: JWBS
Oh my word I am so happy with this GSC box. Truck, abbs, and a new commander, it's all I was hoping for
110309
Post by: ListenToMeWarriors
JWBS wrote:Oh my word I am so happy with this GSC box. Truck, abbs, and a new commander, it's all I was hoping for
The female Magus is not a new sculpt. It is a great Combat patrol though. That lot is £157.50 at current GW RRP.
69321
Post by: JWBS
Yeah I know I didn't expect new new, but this is new to the GSC army box and I'm happy to get one of these instead of another Icon Ward (I would have been happy with literally any of the many many GSC command models I think they're all pretty nice)
110309
Post by: ListenToMeWarriors
Ah I get you, all those spare Iconwards are doing valiant service as additional Acolyte Hybrids in units.
Am kindof surprised that some of the more expensive units were not swapped out for the odd elite character here or there.
69321
Post by: JWBS
Yeah I feared that too, I wouldn't have been super bummed since there's so many of them that I will not buy them all individually, having them in a discount box wouldn't be the worst thing. This is still way better though.
33527
Post by: Niiai
That new combat patroll is so nice. I just pciked up my probably last copy of the old star collecting box.
By the end of the old codex I really enjoyed transports. With the new -1 damage it is probably better, even if they did increase in points.
And also Abberants actually beeing playable? Who knew.
26519
Post by: xttz
Niiai wrote:That new combat patroll is so nice. I just pciked up my probably last copy of the old star collecting box.
By the end of the old codex I really enjoyed transports. With the new -1 damage it is probably better, even if they did increase in points.
And also Abberants actually beeing playable? Who knew.
Yeah it's much better than I expected. I had been hoping to see the old DWOK sprues with a magus HQ, but this is one of the better discounts on a Combat Patrol so far at ~45% off the multipart kits.
My only minor gripe is that 2 x Acolyte would probably more useful than 2 x Neophyte (thanks to the insane cost of the former). Still, everything here is useful.
69321
Post by: JWBS
Neophytes are possibly my favourite GW kit of all time at this point, but as a person that has also bought multiple SC GSC I am predicting they'll be dirt cheap on the pre-owned market now, 2x10 here, and most of us already have loads (I'm not even a gamer I just like the models). People will be selling these at £10 a shot soon I think.
55577
Post by: ImAGeek
That GSC combat patrol is incredibly tempting.
85326
Post by: Arbitrator
The Grey Knight and Thousand Sons Combat Patrol hasn't even landed right? Might be in for a wait.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
A GSC bundle without the Iconward? I just can't conceptualise that... Anyway, WinterSEO has his Custodes and extensive GSC reviews up: Arbitrator wrote:The Grey Knight and Thousand Sons Combat Patrol hasn't even landed right? Might be in for a wait.
Still waiting on those, as well as the separate releases for the Infernal Master and Crowe.
126944
Post by: Wha-Mu-077
That's actually a really tempting Combat Patrol
56721
Post by: Dawnbringer
When I was trying to guess the contents of the CP I guessed what it was minus the second set of Neophytes. Time to grab a couple SCs then that for a decent start to an army.
85326
Post by: Arbitrator
I thought they'd put the female Magus in and swap the Ridgerunner for a Rockgrinder, so they've actually exceeded my minimal expectations.
33527
Post by: Niiai
If you need iconwards there are probably many on the secinderry marked. At least for the time beeing.
Regarding the 2 pack of neoohytes: I have had much suckess sanding them on the sides and gluing acolyte arms onto them. You stil need a lot of acolyte packs but you often have arms left over.
103063
Post by: Gene St. Ealer
H.B.M.C. wrote:A GSC bundle without the Iconward? I just can't conceptualise that...
Anyway, WinterSEO has his Custodes and extensive GSC reviews up:
Lmao, nice move Winters. Honestly, I don't blame him; he doesn't play GSC, it's not really feasible to play as many armies as he does and try and know and explain all the others (especially complex ones like GSC).
29661
Post by: stratigo
Winters also struggles with extreme depression and getting the energy to do things is tough, and GSC is the wordiest of the books
110309
Post by: ListenToMeWarriors
I am waiting for the Zara Kane GSC review, she really knows the army. Ash's at GMG was fair as well, but like most I am not sure if he either played the army/against it in previous editions. Cannot blame Winters for giving up at the word soup, GW rules seem to be increasingly inelegant.
90464
Post by: Umbros
By contrast, Goonhammer's review of the book is effusive. Notably praising the precision of the rules (though not the brevity!).
113031
Post by: Voss
Ah, they did what I expected them to do with Custodes:
Have a 4++.
'These, no, these were never storm shields.'
'They're... um... The Precido was a cool movie, right?'
'Precidium shields. Yeah. Throw in an extra 'a' or something. And shut that mic off.'
Zoanthropes watch sadly from the sidelines. They know.
But honestly, I won't ever miss 3++ saves.
85326
Post by: Arbitrator
Umbros wrote:
By contrast, Goonhammer's review of the book is effusive. Notably praising the precision of the rules (though not the brevity!).
Isn't that all they do with new reviews these days though?
95410
Post by: ERJAK
Arbitrator wrote:Umbros wrote:
By contrast, Goonhammer's review of the book is effusive. Notably praising the precision of the rules (though not the brevity!).
Isn't that all they do with new reviews these days though?
Tell me you haven't read any of the reviews without telling me you haven't read any of the reviews.
7075
Post by: chaos0xomega
Oh my my those combat patrols are seeeeexy. I'll be picking up one of the custodes (which is more or less precisely what I needed to round out my custodes and SoS collection) and at least 2 of the GSC one.
101163
Post by: Tyel
ERJAK wrote:Tell me you haven't read any of the reviews without telling me you haven't read any of the reviews.
I quite like their reviews - but I'm struggling to think a book where they said "this just sucks okay".
Their GSC review is probably fair. If you can set up Crossfire/Exposed as easily as they imply (and I can't see why a few 60 point 5 man handflamer acolyte units+sniper characters won't work) then it seems likely the book is going to be crazy powerful. I mean a boring 10 man Shotgun Neophyte squad is getting a 50% return into Intercessors with Crossfire/Exposed before you apply any other buffs. More handflamer acolytes would potentially be even better, because you get about the same damage from shooting and then have a fairly impactful charge.
Metamorphs just seem designed to destroy assault-focused lists.
Its interesting how a day can shift me from soft doomerism to "this is the most broken thing I've read in 40k since last month".
117925
Post by: Bago
Tyel wrote:ERJAK wrote:Tell me you haven't read any of the reviews without telling me you haven't read any of the reviews.
I quite like their reviews - but I'm struggling to think a book where they said "this just sucks okay".
Well, would you say one codex of 9th straight up sucks? I think they are all very fair and I enjoy those reviews way more than some doom and gloom. For this I can always visit dakkadakka
76825
Post by: NinthMusketeer
For me so much of it is the nature of positivity--are they honest about the strong points? Are they contrasting those with weak points? What sort of language are they using? A positive review could come in the form of an optimistic analysis of what's there or it could be written like a political advertisement, and there's a big difference.
95410
Post by: ERJAK
Tyel wrote:ERJAK wrote:Tell me you haven't read any of the reviews without telling me you haven't read any of the reviews.
I quite like their reviews - but I'm struggling to think a book where they said "this just sucks okay".
Their GSC review is probably fair. If you can set up Crossfire/Exposed as easily as they imply (and I can't see why a few 60 point 5 man handflamer acolyte units+sniper characters won't work) then it seems likely the book is going to be crazy powerful. I mean a boring 10 man Shotgun Neophyte squad is getting a 50% return into Intercessors with Crossfire/Exposed before you apply any other buffs. More handflamer acolytes would potentially be even better, because you get about the same damage from shooting and then have a fairly impactful charge.
Metamorphs just seem designed to destroy assault-focused lists.
Its interesting how a day can shift me from soft doomerism to "this is the most broken thing I've read in 40k since last month".
So specifically what he was implying was that all of their book reviews offer 'effusive praise'. Which is blatantly false. Their reviews are detailed enough that tone is rarely consistent all the way through, some things being seen as negative for being too weak, too strong, or too bland. Other things being more positive due to being strong (but not necessarily OP) interesting, or unique.
The most common tone for their final summations tends to be cautiously optimistic. Their most negative reviews have actually been in regards to books that seemed too strong with the excitement at all the powerful tools being overshadowed by the lingering dread of what the book would do to the game as a whole (as was the case with the Drukhari and Admech reviews.) They also tend to make comments on previous books that puts them in a more negative light as time goes on (again, drukhari).
They haven't actively shat on a book, but negativity isn't inherently more honest than positivity. People like Arbitrator forget that dunking on things has just as much susceptibility to corruption as positivity. There's an entire subgenre of shock-jock review ghouls on Youtube that make their money dumping on anything that's popular, regardless of what they actually think of it.
So yeah, Goonhammer haven't made a 35 minute diss-track about any of the books; not all of their reviews have been 'effusive praise' either.
113031
Post by: Voss
They do tend to be vocal when they think something is particularly weak or confusing, at the very least.
Probably the biggest criticism of their reviews is they're very tournament oriented. But they do a 'crusade review' separately for each, which is probably less so.
One weakness is they sometimes gloss over something because it doesn't fit their focus or a unit's potential passes over their reviewer because it doesn't fit with the units they usually use. Usually someone else chimes in with a different opinion, sometimes there's even a 'hear me out...' blurb, but sometimes units get so little focus you'd think they're not even in the codex.
But for the overall state of a new book, they're pretty reliable. They do point out missed opportunities and rules weirdness.
84851
Post by: Tiberius501
nvm
|
|
