-1 Damage to Armigers from a command-phase buff on top of options like +1 BS or +1 toughness. They are pushing combined arms -hard- and I can't say I disapprove!
Each class of big Knight also grants a different buff, which can open the list-building phase to a lot more options than spamming Magaeras'. This reminds me of the Tyranids and their unit-based upgrades. I think its an awesome idea. I'm really excited with this reveal!
Edit: Also, the first line is "The new Codex Imperial Knights will be available for preorder very soon." I was expecting it to be a full month out, but based on the quantity of Warcom articles on Knights it may be closer to early May than late May/early June. I understand 'very soon' is subjective and I could be wrong.
Edit 2: They specify that the Preceptor has its own knightly teaching, so it may not stack with the +1 BS that a Crusader can grant.
I don't think I'm a huge fan of these mechanics honestly. It makes you so much more dependent on Big knights, and paints an even bigger target priority on their back.
GW has on multiple occasions done surprise pre-orders that weren't announced on the preceding sunday, but usually its for LotR, specialist, or hobby/terrain type products rather than 40k/AoS books and kits. I don't see it releasing on the 7th but going up for preorder is certainly possible.
from what ive seen the majority of players will still never take a knight aux simply because of "mathhammer" but theyre looking really fun for casual and LGS games. i plan to buy 1 of everything (2 of each arminger) and just run different lists. sadly ill probably get the same problem i got with ad mech and stuff will get nerfed into the ground because of tournament players using every decent build until they fall below another unit thatll take their place, leaving knights probably lower tier again.
nathan2004 wrote: Hopefully meaningful leaks start dropping soon, we knew most of everything in the eldar, Tyranids, etc dexes at this time in the release cycle.
Word from the leaker is they're laying low because GW is on the crackdown prowl ATM.
It's unclear to me whether you are choosing from a list of abilities from the three categories, or if they advance in a set progression.
-1 to hit is good, and so is taking away ObSec. The rest is kinda meh to me, but of course these penalties might also stack with Iconoclast abilities and all kinds of other options. -3 to -5 leadership and more models running away may help vs. hordes in particular, allowing Chaos Knights to go more anti elite and use leadership to clear hordes.
bmsattler wrote: It's unclear to me whether you are choosing from a list of abilities from the three categories, or if they advance in a set progression.
-1 to hit is good, and so is taking away ObSec. The rest is kinda meh to me, but of course these penalties might also stack with Iconoclast abilities and all kinds of other options. -3 to -5 leadership and more models running away may help vs. hordes in particular, allowing Chaos Knights to go more anti elite and use leadership to clear hordes.
You're locked into Doom T1 and T5, but other than that you switch between the charts as in the article.
Example Doom T1, then move to Darkness T2. Then you can stay in darkness or move back to Doom. etc etc.
These all stack, so while indivudally they are not super strong, when they start stacking it can be pretty strong. 12' aura for these is also huge.
Man, that chart really helps clear things up. Thanks for posting that!
They mention that Korvax will like the Darkness abilities in a foot note. This could be flavor text, but what do people think about the possibility that certain Houses will favor certain tracks and get some small benefit for choosing it? Kind of like how Necron Dynasties favor a particular Protocol.
Man, I've been asking for that as a stratagem forever. It's really good to see it, though I wish it wasn't locked to one House.
Bond seems kind of bad. If it wasn't once per battle it would be much better. Relic looks kinda good though. You can choose when to activate it instead of being a 'first failed' thing.
There are a 60p favour left, it may be the 6+++ --> 5+++ of the leaks.
I may go a crazy abhorrent with defensive favours and stuff with 2 or 3 warglavies looking for harrass and pushing a line, trying to make my rival focus the aborrent (5+++, no rerrolls, korvax relic saving damage, and stuff). Then I supose i'll try to find the way to play a tyrant or a despoiler with 2xRFBC in deployment zone in my objective.
I wonder how many of these buffs will be available to Knights taken as a soup option in SHADs. Obviously Harbingers of Dread is for "Knights only" armies, but how much of the other stuff can they have in mixed armies?
There are a 60p favour left, it may be the 6+++ --> 5+++ of the leaks.
I may go a crazy abhorrent with defensive favours and stuff with 2 or 3 warglavies looking for harrass and pushing a line, trying to make my rival focus the aborrent (5+++, no rerrolls, korvax relic saving damage, and stuff). Then I supose i'll try to find the way to play a tyrant or a despoiler with 2xRFBC in deployment zone in my objective.
Yep, the last two confirmed. the Mark is 6+++, 5+++ when favored. The other is deepstrike, favored is pick up and deepstrike again.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
bmsattler wrote: Man, I've been asking for that as a stratagem forever. It's really good to see it, though I wish it wasn't locked to one House.
Bond seems kind of bad. If it wasn't once per battle it would be much better. Relic looks kinda good though. You can choose when to activate it instead of being a 'first failed' thing.
Bond is a little bit on the weaker side, but gives you a lot more flexibility in the dread chart.
It had to be a bit on the weaker side, because the stratagem and relic are incredible. It would have been the auto-take house otherwise.
A Valiant-Tyrant that can deep strike gets past its primary weakness of short-range weapons. If it's favored ability is an immediate deep strike similar to Gate of Infinity then its even better, as it would allow a hit-and-run style attack. The Warp-Born Stalker would also go well on a War Dog, allowing it to threaten a backfield objective much quicker than normal. Lastly, this ability plays into the Chaos Knight secondary that wants to get kills from within the enemy's deployment zone.
The Aura of Corruption for -1 Strength then -1 Toughness would be nice for a fast War Dog that you throw forward to make your other guns more effective. Str 6 gatling or lightning locks would wound marines on 2+, and Toughness 2 Sisters or Eldar would be wounded on 2s even by heavy stubbers.
Collar of Infernal Brass would also be good for a Knight or War Dog that you push forward into the enemy. It's cheap and would be an awesome smite shield.
Mirror of Fates is cheap and gives both CP regen and a free 6 on hit/wound/save per round. I would absolutely save this for a save. It might even be after a die is rolled, which would allow you to check your 5+ invlun against Broadsides or something then just ignore one failed roll.
See I know it seemed rhetorical but I really have lost track at this point.
Let's see:
- Purity doctrine: Dread knight stuff with the Doom, Darkness and Despair you choose at the beginning of your turn.
- Dread blades.
- Favour of the dark gods you can purchase with points/PL and that evolve with wound kills.
- New Psychic doctrine
- Marks of chaos (rumoured)
- House bonds
- Purity doctrine: Dread knight stuff with the Doom, Darkness and Despair you choose at the beginning of your turn.
- Dread blades.
- Favour of the dark gods you can purchase with points/PL and that evolve with wound kills.
- New Psychic doctrine
- Marks of chaos (rumoured)
- House bonds
Did I forget any ?
The birds on top are Chaos partridges I believe, so there must be an evil pear tree around here somewhere...
Yeah, question is: Do they get to bring along all of their strategems, relics, Warlord traits, etc along with them? And thus render all of the various faction specific LoWs irrelevant in the process?
Yeah, question is: Do they get to bring along all of their strategems, relics, Warlord traits, etc along with them? And thus render all of the various faction specific LoWs irrelevant in the process?
They will, but Agent of Chaos players will need to pay a +1CP tax for each strat. Loyalists, of course, will suffer no such penalty.
So someone correct me if I am missing something, but what rules does the knight get in a Freeblade Agent of Chaos. I know if I take the new one with my TS army, my TS army will get to operate as normal. However, it seems unclear what the Freeblade will get. I assume it won't get its army wide rules (I think that is the dread stuff) but can we take the upgrades etc. or use the knight strats? It seems unclear and I did not see any rumors about it. If no strats or upgrades with the CP tax not really a great choice (I am still buying the new big one cause the model looks so freaking cool).
xeen wrote: So someone correct me if I am missing something, but what rules does the knight get in a Freeblade Agent of Chaos. I know if I take the new one with my TS army, my TS army will get to operate as normal. However, it seems unclear what the Freeblade will get. I assume it won't get its army wide rules (I think that is the dread stuff) but can we take the upgrades etc. or use the knight strats? It seems unclear and I did not see any rumors about it. If no strats or upgrades with the CP tax not really a great choice (I am still buying the new big one cause the model looks so freaking cool).
It'll unlock strats, which there will likely be a strat to get a relic etc. But I don't think households will apply, nor will the new doom mechanic from the other day as a guess.
The main benefit is that it will not remove 'pure army' benefits from the army you are adding the Knight to. You could add a Castellan to your Grey Knights army and still get Tides or to Space Marines and keep Armor of Contempt and Doctrines.
Freeblade/Dreadblade gives up all House bonuses including stratagems, warlord traits, and relics specific to the house. They will keep their access to basic codex versions of those. They will also get access to Freeblade traits instead of the house trait.
Nice that it also confirms you can take 3 armigers/wardogs with this. With them keeping objsec as well. Could see this filling out some gaps in certain armies. I know my night lords would appreciate having some durable long-ranged firepower, and helverins might just be that.
So... I'm kinda looking at the Chaos Knight Codex right now, and I imagine if I'm looking at it, it won't be long until many others (here and elsewhere) are also looking at it.
Voss wrote: What do the Abominant's birds do, and does it have anything in the way of arm weapon swaps or carapace guns to replace the birds?
Also, what are the wardogs like for weapon options? Free for all, set combinations of weapons or jigsaw tetris?
The birds don't do anything on their own, although there's several pretty decent stratagems that key off of them (and a relic, IIRC). On the other hand, the Abominant's melee isn't as bad as previously feared, as it also gets another d3 swings from its tail, and the tentacle attacks are on par with the claw's sweep profile.
The War Dogs are pretty static on weapon options, although we're missing two data sheets still (the Executioner and the Stalker).
Completely agree. Just like with Smoke Launchers, if you bring more than one they'll have to play rock paper scissors among themselves to see who gets to use their equipment that turn.
DreadfullyHopeful wrote: Sooo... Remind me how good we are with leaks here ? Because I found them too and I'd like to share with the class but...
As long as it doesn't name/shame a leaker and isn't against their will, that's fine, likewise basically ripping the entire book in images into here is bad.
DreadfullyHopeful wrote: Sooo... Remind me how good we are with leaks here ? Because I found them too and I'd like to share with the class but...
As long as it doesn't name/shame a leaker and isn't against their will, that's fine, likewise basically ripping the entire book in images into here is bad.
Thanks ! Then I'll drop a link to an Imgur gallery directly. If it's overboard the MODs 'll take it down.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So... I'm kinda looking at the Chaos Knight Codex right now, and I imagine if I'm looking at it, it won't be long until many others (here and elsewhere) are also looking at it.
Any questions?
I hope it's a digital codex. I thought NZ, Aus, and JP were the redheaded stepchildren that had to wait for their stuff. It would piss me off a lot if it's just JP. Paying extra to get releases later is not my cup of tea.
Seems like a copypasta codex with some minor tweaks to the older stuff. Then a ton of focus on the new Dread abilities. Sprinkle in marks of chaos with some meaningful abilities but cost points.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So... I'm kinda looking at the Chaos Knight Codex right now, and I imagine if I'm looking at it, it won't be long until many others (here and elsewhere) are also looking at it.
Any questions?
Exactly how much of the "extra" stuff that Knights get above and beyond other LoWs because they have their own codex do Knights in SHADs get? Y'know: stratagems, Warlord traits, relics, Marks, etc. And what exactly is a "Dread test"? I'm guessing a leadership test?
H.B.M.C. wrote: So... I'm kinda looking at the Chaos Knight Codex right now, and I imagine if I'm looking at it, it won't be long until many others (here and elsewhere) are also looking at it.
Any questions?
Exactly how much of the "extra" stuff that Knights get above and beyond other LoWs because they have their own codex do Knights in SHADs get? Y'know: stratagems, Warlord traits, relics, Marks, etc. And what exactly is a "Dread test"? I'm guessing a leadership test?
They get all that, along with their Household/Dreadblade abilities and all their Detachment abilities (their rules specifically say they benefit from their detachment abilities in Aux detachments even though they normally wouldn't).
The only thing to note is that Dreadblades don't get the Infernal/Iconoclast Ambition unless you take a specific Fell Bond (the custom Household/Dreadblade abilities), so if you want a Knight and also don't want to lose your main faction's mono-faction bonus you are down 1 ability to a non-Dreadblade Knight
H.B.M.C. wrote: So... I'm kinda looking at the Chaos Knight Codex right now, and I imagine if I'm looking at it, it won't be long until many others (here and elsewhere) are also looking at it.
Any questions?
Exactly how much of the "extra" stuff that Knights get above and beyond other LoWs because they have their own codex do Knights in SHADs get? Y'know: stratagems, Warlord traits, relics, Marks, etc. And what exactly is a "Dread test"? I'm guessing a leadership test?
They get all that, along with their Household/Dreadblade abilities and all their Detachment abilities (their rules specifically say they benefit from their detachment abilities in Aux detachments even though they normally wouldn't).
The only thing to note is that Dreadblades don't get the Infernal/Iconoclast Ambition unless you take a specific Fell Bond (the custom Household/Dreadblade abilities), so if you want a Knight and also don't want to lose your main faction's mono-faction bonus you are down 1 ability to a non-Dreadblade Knight
So, a Knight taken in a SHAD in a CSM army gets all of that, and the 12 actual HERETIC ASTARTES LoWsdon't even get Legion traits. Yup, that's some fine internal balance there gw.
Oh actually I just noticed the lack of any stratagems to make a Knight into a character and take extra warlord traits/relics in the leaks. So for now at least it looks like a SHAD Knight would only have access to a Warlord Trait and Relic if you're playing a Combat Patrol game (and thus can't take any allies).
Manfred von Drakken wrote: Thanks for nerfing my Rampager, GW. It's not like she ever lived long enough to really tear through things in melee.
Rampager got one of the biggest glow-ups in my opinion. It's got a seriously beefy profile, and there are several Favors that worth taking to make it more durable or more killy.
Several good WLTs to pair with it too.
I'll also add that I think Herpatrex, Khomentis and Korvax are going to be the go-to houses. If you want to go Iconoclast, Herpatrex feels like the best one. The Inbuilt Durability you get across the army is nice, and the rest of the kit isn't bad at all. Lucaris and Kymere are just not good in my opinion.
I'm still thinking just max Wardogs will probably be the most comp list, but I really think there is some play with 2 Big knights and 7 Little.
The Desecrator being WS 2 made it rise up in my opinion of it.
I was happy to see you can go double gatling on a War Dog.
One big question now is whether the Forge World knights will be eratted to have the Abhorent keyword. As it stands, at least they can get Warlord Traits and Relics now. Tactical Tortoise has a video with the missing content, and the stratagems are simply 'Chaos Knight model.'
Some of the options that give more choices off of the Dread/Doom/Darkness chart are looking pretty spicy. It feels like there is a lot of play there that can really increase the durability of the army.
You can take a Rampager to something like 40 (situational) sweep attacks with exploding 6s with the right combo of relics, warlord traits, etc. I think it might be better to go with a couple fewer attacks and go Infernal though. Access to more movement and the Bind the Souls of the Departed strat are worth considering.
The loss of the actual RAMPAGE ability that generated extra hits. You know, the thing that made the Rampager stand out?
Also, a melee-only Despoiler is completely pointless.
I mean, get that buffing War Dogs helps, but it feels like yet another over-correction on GW's part. They also don't appear to have done much to deal with the army's major deficiencies: getting screwed over by terrain (outside of one House-specific stratagem) and surviving in a meta that still measures itself in how quickly you can kill Knights.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So... I'm kinda looking at the Chaos Knight Codex right now, and I imagine if I'm looking at it, it won't be long until many others (here and elsewhere) are also looking at it.
Any questions?
Exactly how much of the "extra" stuff that Knights get above and beyond other LoWs because they have their own codex do Knights in SHADs get? Y'know: stratagems, Warlord traits, relics, Marks, etc. And what exactly is a "Dread test"? I'm guessing a leadership test?
They get all that, along with their Household/Dreadblade abilities and all their Detachment abilities (their rules specifically say they benefit from their detachment abilities in Aux detachments even though they normally wouldn't).
The only thing to note is that Dreadblades don't get the Infernal/Iconoclast Ambition unless you take a specific Fell Bond (the custom Household/Dreadblade abilities), so if you want a Knight and also don't want to lose your main faction's mono-faction bonus you are down 1 ability to a non-Dreadblade Knight
So, a Knight taken in a SHAD in a CSM army gets all of that, and the 12 actual HERETIC ASTARTES LoWsdon't even get Legion traits. Yup, that's some fine internal balance there gw.
That's external balance technically between 2 books, but it's the same for literally every faction that can get a knight now.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So... I'm kinda looking at the Chaos Knight Codex right now, and I imagine if I'm looking at it, it won't be long until many others (here and elsewhere) are also looking at it.
Any questions?
Exactly how much of the "extra" stuff that Knights get above and beyond other LoWs because they have their own codex do Knights in SHADs get? Y'know: stratagems, Warlord traits, relics, Marks, etc. And what exactly is a "Dread test"? I'm guessing a leadership test?
They get all that, along with their Household/Dreadblade abilities and all their Detachment abilities (their rules specifically say they benefit from their detachment abilities in Aux detachments even though they normally wouldn't).
The only thing to note is that Dreadblades don't get the Infernal/Iconoclast Ambition unless you take a specific Fell Bond (the custom Household/Dreadblade abilities), so if you want a Knight and also don't want to lose your main faction's mono-faction bonus you are down 1 ability to a non-Dreadblade Knight
So, a Knight taken in a SHAD in a CSM army gets all of that, and the 12 actual HERETIC ASTARTES LoWsdon't even get Legion traits. Yup, that's some fine internal balance there gw.
That's external balance technically between 2 books, but it's the same for literally every faction that can get a knight now.
I have to imagine that once the CSM book drops, HERETIC ASTARTES Lords of War will get their Legion traits, just like their corpse-worshipping counterparts.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So... I'm kinda looking at the Chaos Knight Codex right now, and I imagine if I'm looking at it, it won't be long until many others (here and elsewhere) are also looking at it.
Any questions?
Exactly how much of the "extra" stuff that Knights get above and beyond other LoWs because they have their own codex do Knights in SHADs get? Y'know: stratagems, Warlord traits, relics, Marks, etc. And what exactly is a "Dread test"? I'm guessing a leadership test?
They get all that, along with their Household/Dreadblade abilities and all their Detachment abilities (their rules specifically say they benefit from their detachment abilities in Aux detachments even though they normally wouldn't).
The only thing to note is that Dreadblades don't get the Infernal/Iconoclast Ambition unless you take a specific Fell Bond (the custom Household/Dreadblade abilities), so if you want a Knight and also don't want to lose your main faction's mono-faction bonus you are down 1 ability to a non-Dreadblade Knight
So, a Knight taken in a SHAD in a CSM army gets all of that, and the 12 actual HERETIC ASTARTES LoWsdon't even get Legion traits. Yup, that's some fine internal balance there gw.
That's external balance technically between 2 books, but it's the same for literally every faction that can get a knight now.
I'm not going to argue semantics. Call it internal or external, it doesn't matter. The gist is that any Chaos/Imperial faction can take a Knight without losing their purity bonus and the Knight gets considerable support from its own codex, including its own detachment abilities, which no other LoW gets in a SHAD, and that isn't balanced. Factions should be pushed towards taking their own LoWs, not those from other codexes.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So... I'm kinda looking at the Chaos Knight Codex right now, and I imagine if I'm looking at it, it won't be long until many others (here and elsewhere) are also looking at it.
Any questions?
Exactly how much of the "extra" stuff that Knights get above and beyond other LoWs because they have their own codex do Knights in SHADs get? Y'know: stratagems, Warlord traits, relics, Marks, etc. And what exactly is a "Dread test"? I'm guessing a leadership test?
They get all that, along with their Household/Dreadblade abilities and all their Detachment abilities (their rules specifically say they benefit from their detachment abilities in Aux detachments even though they normally wouldn't).
The only thing to note is that Dreadblades don't get the Infernal/Iconoclast Ambition unless you take a specific Fell Bond (the custom Household/Dreadblade abilities), so if you want a Knight and also don't want to lose your main faction's mono-faction bonus you are down 1 ability to a non-Dreadblade Knight
So, a Knight taken in a SHAD in a CSM army gets all of that, and the 12 actual HERETIC ASTARTES LoWsdon't even get Legion traits. Yup, that's some fine internal balance there gw.
That's external balance technically between 2 books, but it's the same for literally every faction that can get a knight now.
I have to imagine that once the CSM book drops, HERETIC ASTARTES Lords of War will get their Legion traits, just like their corpse-worshipping counterparts.
They already do: none, nada, zilch. LoWs in SHADs don't get faction abilities, except Knights, apparently.
Gadzilla666 wrote: They already do: none, nada, zilch. LoWs in SHADs don't get faction abilities, except Knights, apparently.
Huh. I haven't tried to use any yet, so I guess I missed that one. That's... stupid.
The knights are forced to take one of the custom house traits and unless they pick a specific one don't get Iconoclast or infernal buffs, they don't get the dread auras and won't be a character with a relic/trait it seems. That's 3cp, an in-faction LoW such as when I use my Kytan with my red corsairs, doesn't get the advance and charge legion trait but costs me 1cp and most importantly gets access to daemonforge. You'll have a hard time convincing someone a daemonforge lord of skulls etc. Is flat out worse than the knight with half their abilities missing and costing 3cp rather than 1.
Gadzilla666 wrote: They already do: none, nada, zilch. LoWs in SHADs don't get faction abilities, except Knights, apparently.
Huh. I haven't tried to use any yet, so I guess I missed that one. That's... stupid.
The knights are forced to take one of the custom house traits and unless they pick a specific one don't get Iconoclast or infernal buffs, they don't get the dread auras and won't be a character with a relic/trait it seems. That's 3cp, an in-faction LoW such as when I use my Kytan with my red corsairs, doesn't get the advance and charge legion trait but costs me 1cp and most importantly gets access to daemonforge. You'll have a hard time convincing someone a daemonforge lord of skulls etc. Is flat out worse than the knight with half their abilities missing and costing 3cp rather than 1.
Why 1CP ? You still need to pay 3CP to be able the field a Kytan.
Next week for pre order on the set it is then, no made to order guarantee though. This is a "whilst stocks last" set. But codex and models to follow a few weeks later, so no real reason for a FOMO driven purchase.
BrookM wrote: Here's hoping that the Dominus and Armiger repacks are not bumped up in price yet again due to added content.
They each have a sprue added, of course they're going up in price.
True, but with how easy it is to magnetize knight arms, adding in the extra sprues doesn't leave a ton of leftover useless parts like some kits. It would be cool if you could mix and match the weapons on the chassis between the set builds.
When the Knight Preceptor was added, the knight warden kit went from $157 to the new Preceptor box at $160, so that was a solid deal for the cockpit sprue.
BrookM wrote: Here's hoping that the Dominus and Armiger repacks are not bumped up in price yet again due to added content.
I cant see how this is not gonna result in a price hike Especially with the two Dominus classes in one box, those are big and chunky sprues. I guess GW really want to save the instore shelf space.
BrookM wrote: Here's hoping that the Dominus and Armiger repacks are not bumped up in price yet again due to added content.
They each have a sprue added, of course they're going up in price.
True, but with how easy it is to magnetize knight arms, adding in the extra sprues doesn't leave a ton of leftover useless parts like some kits. It would be cool if you could mix and match the weapons on the chassis between the set builds.
When the Knight Preceptor was added, the knight warden kit went from $157 to the new Preceptor box at $160, so that was a solid deal for the cockpit sprue.
Yes, but it jumped $20 usd going from the Paladin to Warden box and that was also a single sprue.
Bummer if a price rise is thrown in so soon after the first one. I wish that GW did this though with both kits ages ago already: include both options, as I've always found it boneheaded that the Valiant and Warglaives had AdMech styled plating, whilst the Castellan and Helverin had regular Questoris styled plates.
Gadzilla666 wrote: They already do: none, nada, zilch. LoWs in SHADs don't get faction abilities, except Knights, apparently.
Huh. I haven't tried to use any yet, so I guess I missed that one. That's... stupid.
The knights are forced to take one of the custom house traits and unless they pick a specific one don't get Iconoclast or infernal buffs, they don't get the dread auras and won't be a character with a relic/trait it seems. That's 3cp, an in-faction LoW such as when I use my Kytan with my red corsairs, doesn't get the advance and charge legion trait but costs me 1cp and most importantly gets access to daemonforge. You'll have a hard time convincing someone a daemonforge lord of skulls etc. Is flat out worse than the knight with half their abilities missing and costing 3cp rather than 1.
Only the three TITANIC Daemon Engines and the Karybdis will cost you 1CP, all the others are 2CP because of Martial Legacy, and all three of the Daemon Engines are Khorne locked, so unavailable to 1ksons, Death Guard, and Emperor's Children. Also, don't forget that Daemonforge is, according to the current leaks, going to no longer be "Reroll all hits and wounds" but instead be "+1BS/WS", and it only works for the three Daemon Engines. And Knights get a lot more stratagems than that. And being "forced" to take a custom Household trait is still better than getting no faction trait at all.
Gadzilla666 wrote: They already do: none, nada, zilch. LoWs in SHADs don't get faction abilities, except Knights, apparently.
Huh. I haven't tried to use any yet, so I guess I missed that one. That's... stupid.
The knights are forced to take one of the custom house traits and unless they pick a specific one don't get Iconoclast or infernal buffs, they don't get the dread auras and won't be a character with a relic/trait it seems. That's 3cp, an in-faction LoW such as when I use my Kytan with my red corsairs, doesn't get the advance and charge legion trait but costs me 1cp and most importantly gets access to daemonforge. You'll have a hard time convincing someone a daemonforge lord of skulls etc. Is flat out worse than the knight with half their abilities missing and costing 3cp rather than 1.
Why 1CP ? You still need to pay 3CP to be able the field a Kytan.
Superheavy Aux detachments got changed in GT2021 to refund 2CP if they're the same faction as your warlord's detachment, excluding overfactions.
Gadzilla666 wrote: They already do: none, nada, zilch. LoWs in SHADs don't get faction abilities, except Knights, apparently.
Huh. I haven't tried to use any yet, so I guess I missed that one. That's... stupid.
The knights are forced to take one of the custom house traits and unless they pick a specific one don't get Iconoclast or infernal buffs, they don't get the dread auras and won't be a character with a relic/trait it seems. That's 3cp, an in-faction LoW such as when I use my Kytan with my red corsairs, doesn't get the advance and charge legion trait but costs me 1cp and most importantly gets access to daemonforge. You'll have a hard time convincing someone a daemonforge lord of skulls etc. Is flat out worse than the knight with half their abilities missing and costing 3cp rather than 1.
Only the three TITANIC Daemon Engines and the Karybdis will cost you 1CP, all the others are 2CP because of Martial Legacy, and all three of the Daemon Engines are Khorne locked, so unavailable to 1ksons, Death Guard, and Emperor's Children. Also, don't forget that Daemonforge is, according to the current leaks, going to no longer be "Reroll all hits and wounds" but instead be "+1BS/WS", and it only works for the three Daemon Engines. And Knights get a lot more stratagems than that. And being "forced" to take a custom Household trait is still better than getting no faction trait at all.
Oh I know, the lay of the land will be different in the new codex and the none daemon LoW suck at present. I agree though it would be nice for them to support the in-faction LoW a bit more, this is very evidently a sales driven thing it feels.
BrookM wrote: Here's hoping that the Dominus and Armiger repacks are not bumped up in price yet again due to added content.
They each have a sprue added, of course they're going up in price.
True, but with how easy it is to magnetize knight arms, adding in the extra sprues doesn't leave a ton of leftover useless parts like some kits. It would be cool if you could mix and match the weapons on the chassis between the set builds.
When the Knight Preceptor was added, the knight warden kit went from $157 to the new Preceptor box at $160, so that was a solid deal for the cockpit sprue.
Another bonus. All regardless of weapons can have admech/knighthouse shoulder pad as you prefer. If price isn't too much increased good deal. Especially to start as you need only so many as you field armigers total regardless of class. Ie 4 body rather than 4 helverin and 4 armiger
Gadzilla666 wrote: They already do: none, nada, zilch. LoWs in SHADs don't get faction abilities, except Knights, apparently.
Huh. I haven't tried to use any yet, so I guess I missed that one. That's... stupid.
The knights are forced to take one of the custom house traits and unless they pick a specific one don't get Iconoclast or infernal buffs, they don't get the dread auras and won't be a character with a relic/trait it seems. That's 3cp, an in-faction LoW such as when I use my Kytan with my red corsairs, doesn't get the advance and charge legion trait but costs me 1cp and most importantly gets access to daemonforge. You'll have a hard time convincing someone a daemonforge lord of skulls etc. Is flat out worse than the knight with half their abilities missing and costing 3cp rather than 1.
Only the three TITANIC Daemon Engines and the Karybdis will cost you 1CP, all the others are 2CP because of Martial Legacy, and all three of the Daemon Engines are Khorne locked, so unavailable to 1ksons, Death Guard, and Emperor's Children. Also, don't forget that Daemonforge is, according to the current leaks, going to no longer be "Reroll all hits and wounds" but instead be "+1BS/WS", and it only works for the three Daemon Engines. And Knights get a lot more stratagems than that. And being "forced" to take a custom Household trait is still better than getting no faction trait at all.
Oh I know, the lay of the land will be different in the new codex and the none daemon LoW suck at present. I agree though it would be nice for them to support the in-faction LoW a bit more, this is very evidently a sales driven thing it feels.
GW does not really support the FW superheavy models, especially the larger ones. Titans especially are priced not to balance their stats, but simply to make the smallest ones essentially unusuable in a standard sized game, and then larger ones are just rough multipliers from there.
BrookM wrote: Here's hoping that the Dominus and Armiger repacks are not bumped up in price yet again due to added content.
They each have a sprue added, of course they're going up in price.
True, but with how easy it is to magnetize knight arms, adding in the extra sprues doesn't leave a ton of leftover useless parts like some kits. It would be cool if you could mix and match the weapons on the chassis between the set builds.
When the Knight Preceptor was added, the knight warden kit went from $157 to the new Preceptor box at $160, so that was a solid deal for the cockpit sprue.
Yes, but it jumped $20 usd going from the Paladin to Warden box and that was also a single sprue.
On the flip side the benefit is that people(like me) can now magnetize the hell out of these kits saving on future purchases*.
* Which doesn't help me much out at this point as I already have quite a few knights and wardogs.
Gadzilla666 wrote: They already do: none, nada, zilch. LoWs in SHADs don't get faction abilities, except Knights, apparently.
Huh. I haven't tried to use any yet, so I guess I missed that one. That's... stupid.
The knights are forced to take one of the custom house traits and unless they pick a specific one don't get Iconoclast or infernal buffs, they don't get the dread auras and won't be a character with a relic/trait it seems. That's 3cp, an in-faction LoW such as when I use my Kytan with my red corsairs, doesn't get the advance and charge legion trait but costs me 1cp and most importantly gets access to daemonforge. You'll have a hard time convincing someone a daemonforge lord of skulls etc. Is flat out worse than the knight with half their abilities missing and costing 3cp rather than 1.
Why 1CP ? You still need to pay 3CP to be able the field a Kytan.
Superheavy Aux detachments got changed in GT2021 to refund 2CP if they're the same faction as your warlord's detachment, excluding overfactions.
Aaaah ! My bad. Thanks for the info. I never had to field a super heavy other then Magnus
Gadzilla666 wrote: They already do: none, nada, zilch. LoWs in SHADs don't get faction abilities, except Knights, apparently.
Huh. I haven't tried to use any yet, so I guess I missed that one. That's... stupid.
The knights are forced to take one of the custom house traits and unless they pick a specific one don't get Iconoclast or infernal buffs, they don't get the dread auras and won't be a character with a relic/trait it seems. That's 3cp, an in-faction LoW such as when I use my Kytan with my red corsairs, doesn't get the advance and charge legion trait but costs me 1cp and most importantly gets access to daemonforge. You'll have a hard time convincing someone a daemonforge lord of skulls etc. Is flat out worse than the knight with half their abilities missing and costing 3cp rather than 1.
Only the three TITANIC Daemon Engines and the Karybdis will cost you 1CP, all the others are 2CP because of Martial Legacy, and all three of the Daemon Engines are Khorne locked, so unavailable to 1ksons, Death Guard, and Emperor's Children. Also, don't forget that Daemonforge is, according to the current leaks, going to no longer be "Reroll all hits and wounds" but instead be "+1BS/WS", and it only works for the three Daemon Engines. And Knights get a lot more stratagems than that. And being "forced" to take a custom Household trait is still better than getting no faction trait at all.
Oh I know, the lay of the land will be different in the new codex and the none daemon LoW suck at present. I agree though it would be nice for them to support the in-faction LoW a bit more, this is very evidently a sales driven thing it feels.
Eh, I don't think that the Legion Super Heavys "suck", at least not now with AoC, which significantly increases the durability of anything with a 2+ save (which they all have). They're fine on a "datasheet to datasheet" comparison. It's just all of the extra stuff that Knights get that throw it out of whack. But yes, it's probably sales driven.
If they're including options for both types of Armigers, then they might as well have produced a kit of 3 Armigers instead.
Armigers are fielded in units of 1-3 Knights, and combat Patrols can only take 3 Armigers anyway - no more, no less. There is no option to take anything other than an Armiger at combat Patrol level. 3 Armigers are also about the same points cost of a larger Knight...
SamusDrake wrote: If they're including options for both types of Armigers, then they might as well have produced a kit of 3 Armigers instead.
Armigers are fielded in units of 1-3 Knights, and combat Patrols can only take 3 Armigers anyway - no more, no less. There is no option to take anything other than an Armiger at combat Patrol level. 3 Armigers are also about the same points cost of a larger Knight...
But if they made kits of 3 Armigers, then you would just buy one of those, instead of the more expensive option of two kits of two Armigers.
Dudeface wrote: Black blow fly on B&C says its $250 USD, I can't find a direct comparison I'm gbp if anyone can think of a relevant thing to check against?
It'll be 140-150 I think. Battlezone fronteris was 220 usd or 135 gbp
That rumor is silly as hell. $200+ is FW prices; no one sane would buy a plastic model for that amount regardless of how good it looks.
Dudeface wrote: Black blow fly on B&C says its $250 USD, I can't find a direct comparison I'm gbp if anyone can think of a relevant thing to check against?
It'll be 140-150 I think. Battlezone fronteris was 220 usd or 135 gbp
That rumor is silly as hell. $200+ is FW prices; no one sane would buy a plastic model for that amount regardless of how good it looks.
It's the limited edition boxset, 1 abhorrent, 2 wardogs, books and cards. At that price it's free books and cards basically.
Kanluwen wrote: It would have been a bit helpful to clarify that the "it" in question was the Chaos Knight army set.
Right you are, given we're in a chaos knight thread with 1 chaos knight specific item previewed and 1 talk of the town boxset I thought it was clear though
Kanluwen wrote: It would have been a bit helpful to clarify that the "it" in question was the Chaos Knight army set.
Right you are, given we're in a chaos knight thread with 1 chaos knight specific item previewed and 1 talk of the town boxset I thought it was clear though
I know, but there's also people talking about the potential of a price raise on the Dominus and it seems almost like that was what Flipsiders was replying to.
FWIW though, I wouldn't have known for sure if I hadn't gone over to B&C and checked. I've already been told that I have to go and order a box next Saturday for a commission project.
Dudeface wrote: Black blow fly on B&C says its $250 USD, I can't find a direct comparison I'm gbp if anyone can think of a relevant thing to check against?
It'll be 140-150 I think. Battlezone fronteris was 220 usd or 135 gbp
That rumor is silly as hell. $200+ is FW prices; no one sane would buy a plastic model for that amount regardless of how good it looks.
It's the limited edition boxset, 1 abhorrent, 2 wardogs, books and cards. At that price it's free books and cards basically.
Ah, you were talking about the box set. My mistake, I thought you meant the Abhorrent alone. In that case, $220 is fine, although I'd really rather it be $200.
Sadly not shocked by the price of the Chaos boxed set.
Knight is a £100+ miniature, Armiger equivalents are £47.50 + then throw in nigh on £50 of codex and datacards and the UK price of the box still represents 20% saving in terms of GWs direct pricing.
You may have to be quick off the mark if you want 20% off from you online or FLGS.
I believe GW had a 190€ or 195€ price band before that they rarely used. I want to say things like Knight Renegade and that Necromund box with the Enforcers and Khornates, but my memory may be playing tricks on me. Wither way, this would be the new and improved version of it. Basically the equivalent to 175€ (previously 160€) army boxes for the the few items that are so hilariously priced individually that GW can't put them in the standard priced boxes without giving a better discount than other such boxes.
The Black Templar box hardly flew off the shelves. Seems the latest FOMO stuff doesn't vanish instantly these days, maybe due to larger production runs and MTO shedding the scalpers.
Matrindur wrote: Armigers and Dominus Knight actually are on the price list just not with the new releases for some reason:
Spoiler:
UK:
Euro:
So Armigers go up £5 / 5€ and Dominus stays the same
Well colour me surprised at that. Especially the Dominus staying the same price. So GW now they are all in same box, how about letting us mix and match weapons?
Arbitrator wrote: The Black Templar box hardly flew off the shelves. Seems the latest FOMO stuff doesn't vanish instantly these days, maybe due to larger production runs and MTO shedding the scalpers.
Seeing you were quaranteed to get that box it wasn't fomo and scalpers had no interest in getting. Who buys over rpp from scalper when he is quaranteed to get one at normal price?
£52.50 is okay. With magnets, thats still a Lord of War for £26.25 with all its weapon options. To be fair the Armiger overshadows most GW models selling for £25 these days...
Ouch on the Armigers, thank whatever for the Dominus not getting even more slapped on, that was already a flat €10,- increase on that one. Armigers though, €7,50 with both increases added together.
BrookM wrote: Ouch on the Armigers, thank whatever for the Dominus not getting even more slapped on, that was already a flat €10,- increase on that one. Armigers though, €7,50 with both increases added together.
Again, ouch.
Well previous was worse. This actually saves money for players ds you need less armigers.
BrookM wrote: Ouch on the Armigers, thank whatever for the Dominus not getting even more slapped on, that was already a flat €10,- increase on that one. Armigers though, €7,50 with both increases added together.
Again, ouch.
Well previous was worse. This actually saves money for players ds you need less armigers.
(and improved look)
Would have prefered this when i knight army
Agreed same here, had to buy all boxes to get the parts I wanted for my Questoris army, because nope, there weren't any reliable bits services around then that had what I wanted. On the bright side, still sitting on some partially assembled Knights and squires at this point.
I'm beginning to think its not worth it to buy more than 1 though, seems the boxes are priced higher than the value of the miniatures content (whereas before they were break-even). If the Dominus is 170 and the Armigers are 85, then that comes out to 255. I would think that the new War Dogs would be priced the same as the Armigers and the Knight Abominant would be cheaper than a Dominus.... unless they aren't?
We are currently in the "holy hell, I feel like I'm being ripped off" stage right now...
It's happened before and it also made my GW expenditure drop to zero each month. That was just before the time where they started doing "new GW" profiling... You can only hope it starts hurting their bottom line at some point.
It already is, but slow-grow problems generally need to hit a certain critical mass before they are acted upon. That's just a human thing, the funny part is how GW already did this less than a decade ago; usually it takes people longer than that to forget their mistakes.
NinthMusketeer wrote: It already is, but slow-grow problems generally need to hit a certain critical mass before they are acted upon. That's just a human thing, the funny part is how GW already did this less than a decade ago; usually it takes people longer than that to forget their mistakes.
Forget their mistakes? I'm pretty sure they've learned that they can gouge prices to feth and back and still be okay in the long run.
Well, nice of them to bundle all the armiger sprues together for not too much of a price hike. I wanted some of their warglaive bits for conversions, but could never justify the price when it would mean having unusable knights. Now I can just build them as helverins.
I still can't justify it now, but I might be able to lie to myself enough to go through with it.
NinthMusketeer wrote: It already is, but slow-grow problems generally need to hit a certain critical mass before they are acted upon. That's just a human thing, the funny part is how GW already did this less than a decade ago; usually it takes people longer than that to forget their mistakes.
Forget their mistakes? I'm pretty sure they've learned that they can gouge prices to feth and back and still be okay in the long run.
Yet the year with the most price cuts in GWs history was also the best year their stock ever had. We've seen time and again that the story about legions of GW die-hards who will buy no matter what is just that--a story. The concept has never been true, not for GW, not for any other company, at any point in history, ever. Because that just isn't how price vs demand works.
But what is true? The less competition something has the more self-destructive it becomes. It is true of species, it is true of corporations.
There's more to how many kits you sell. Less kits sold at higher profit margin can be more profitable than more at lower profit margin. If you sell 10 kits at 100 it's notably more profitable than 30 kits at 20.
tneva82 wrote: And yet they keep increasing their profit.
There's more to how many kits you sell. Less kits sold at higher profit margin can be more profitable than more at lower profit margin. If you sell 10 kits at 100 it's notably more profitable than 30 kits at 20.
It's almost like they still sell those reduced price models for considerably less than they were at launch even after multiple board-wide price increases.
And that not all of new kits are absurdly priced to begin with. It's still GW shotgun pricing after all.
Quite chuffed for both books now, am more a crusade player myself, so quite pleased with this teaser. Only thing missing is a Freeblade / Dreadblade preview at this stage.
Weirdly I'm actually kind of stoked about Damnations making their way back in Crusade. It sounds like you'll be able to stack a LOT of buffs on one Knight this way, and a couple of penalties feels like a good way to balance that out a bit without having the pure suck that is, say, Blood Angels Crusade rules.
Abominant is sounding generally better than I expected it to. With some proper building you can turn it into at least a better anti-tank platform than I initially assumed.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Putrid Carapace (20/40/60) - Gain +1 Armour save against Dam 1 weapons (Favoured: +1 Toughness).
Blessing of a Thousand Poxes (15/30/15) - Unmodified 6 in melee auto-wounds (Favoured: The same, but for ranged).
Aura of Corruption (25/35/35) - 6" Aura, models are at -1 Strength (Favoured: -1 Toughness as well).
[EDIT]: As much as 40k doesn't need even more layered rules, I have to admit that the Imperial/Chaos Knight Crusade Rules sound really cool.
Layered rules get out of hand quickly in 40k as a medium scale wargame. Knights are basically playing a skirmish game though with their model count and thus can get away with it a lot easier.
You know what? That's actually a very good point. You may have, what, 7-9 models at most (assuming you go ham with the little ones), so this is less daunting.
H.B.M.C. wrote: You know what? That's actually a very good point. You may have, what, 7-9 models at most (assuming you go ham with the little ones), so this is less daunting.
Still a bit much IMO, but yeah it would be absolutely absurd on a regular army.
Manfred von Drakken wrote: Now that the Dominus box has all the weapons, Knights Tyrant should be able to mix and match those weapons. Plasma decimator and mega-flamer, anyone?
Manfred von Drakken wrote: Now that the Dominus box has all the weapons, Knights Tyrant should be able to mix and match those weapons. Plasma decimator and mega-flamer, anyone?
They can't in the new codex.
Yup, this is nothing but a SKU consolidation move.
Manfred von Drakken wrote: Now that the Dominus box has all the weapons, Knights Tyrant should be able to mix and match those weapons. Plasma decimator and mega-flamer, anyone?
They can't in the new codex.
Yup, this is nothing but a SKU consolidation move.
They should still have been options anyways, because the insistence of models only having rules for EXACTLY what is on the assembly instructions is a downside which benefits no one.
NinthMusketeer wrote: They should still have been options anyways, because the insistence of models only having rules for EXACTLY what is on the assembly instructions is a downside which benefits no one.
The literal same argument can be made for the Loyalist Knights having the same options, yet for whatever reason that elicits a response that is downright ridiculous from the Traitor side of things.
NinthMusketeer wrote: They should still have been options anyways, because the insistence of models only having rules for EXACTLY what is on the assembly instructions is a downside which benefits no one.
The literal same argument can be made for the Loyalist Knights having the same options, yet for whatever reason that elicits a response that is downright ridiculous from the Traitor side of things.
NinthMusketeer wrote: They should still have been options anyways, because the insistence of models only having rules for EXACTLY what is on the assembly instructions is a downside which benefits no one.
The literal same argument can be made for the Loyalist Knights having the same options, yet for whatever reason that elicits a response that is downright ridiculous from the Traitor side of things.
As a Nurgle man...
I used to be against letting Imperial Knights double-up on guns. That was the ONLY thing Chaos Knights had over them.
Now that there's some more stuff to differentiate them... Yeah, let the various chassis swap freely.
So what's everyone's opinions on the god faction keyword debate, and CSM warlords getting CP returned for taking an agent of chaos knight of the same god?
NinthMusketeer wrote: They should still have been options anyways, because the insistence of models only having rules for EXACTLY what is on the assembly instructions is a downside which benefits no one.
The literal same argument can be made for the Loyalist Knights having the same options, yet for whatever reason that elicits a response that is downright ridiculous from the Traitor side of things.
Because 'something, something, heresy'.
Yeah I don't see why both armies shouldn't be able to mix & match their (generic) options as they please. Would be a hell of a lot easier to write too. They would still be distinguished by different army rules and by the handful of army-specific options.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I wish I could take two gatling guns on my Loyalist Knights. It's just cool.
It's a shame really, Solaria is bae, the best thing to come out of that garbage fire of a game and GW even went so far as to give us a tutorial for house Varlock colours. Instead all we got is a crap Angelos mini.
Especially with the two Dominus classes in one box, those are big and chunky sprues. I guess 
