Sent the following to GW customer service. Intrigued to see if I get a sensible response.
Hello,
I was very excited about the upcoming Kill Team: Ashes of Faith pre-order today, and I was ready to purchase the box first thing.
Unfortunately, by 10:00am today (when pre-orders are supposed to go live), the box was already sold out. As you can imagine, this was very disappointing. To rub salt in the wound, I received a promotional email advertising the box was available to pre-order ten minutes after it was already unavailable.
Further to this, the box set is already being resold on eBay for at least twice the price.
I am aware a similar thing occurred for the last Kill Team box.
As you can see, there is clearly huge demand for these boxsets, that far outstrips supply. It is causing a lot of bad will within the community and driving down interest in the wider kill team game. From my own perspective, that is £95 Games Workshop will not be getting from me this month, and not for lack of trying. Despite being a loyal customer of Games Workshop for 16 years, this is encouraging me to spend my money with other companies where I can actually obtain the product I want.
During the height of the pandemic, on some releases Games Workshop would honour out-of-stock pre-orders through the made-to-order process. I think the majority of customers would be happy to wait for a guaranteed box several weeks or months down the line rather than missing out now. This seems like an obvious solution to me.
In what way is Games Workshop planning to address this issue that is clear to their customers?
grouch666 wrote: GW Must be planning both 10th Edition and Old World release this year to have such poor allocations of these boxes.
It does not make any sense otherwise!
I can't speak for other KIll Team boxed set releases (Ashes of Faith is the first one I've actually wanted to buy) but you can buy most of the models in the set separately. The only ones you can't currently buy are the Inquisitorial Agents, which we know will be sold on their own at some point. So GW have drummed up interest in these models now, selling them at a cheap price, so that anyone who missed out can buy them separately later on (at a much higher price).
This box also comes with a campaign book and other accessories. It would make sense to sell these separately too later on, if not then only the limited number of people who managed to get the box will actually be able to play the campaign. I don't know if GW will sell them separately, they're missing a trick if not.
And yes, GW has limited production capacity and a lot of it is currently being used to ramp up for 10th Edition. I don't know if Old World will require the same amount of capacity but that might be a factor too.
Well, we all have a problem with orders at the moment that is bigger than scalpers inside the hobby.
They are coming from outside of the hobby, including targetted ads to tell people what to buy and when. Looking at eBay this is confirmed. The only GW item they have for sale is ashes of faith, whilst the rest are exclusive Nikes, sportwear etc
There people are using bots to purchase, guaranteed. Until GW decides to actually do something to deter it, such as made to orders (which again, I would have happily done for this as I doubt I’ll build them for months anyway) this will keep occurring.
GW should actually put an article up saying please do not but from
eBay and start a reporting process. They may not be able to blacklist all bots, but they can surely blacklist addresses, and ask suppliers to honour those addresses.
It may not make it impossible for resellers to still disturb our hobby, but it will make it difficult at least.
And well, soon GW will lose customers over this, nothing kills a seller/customer relationship like apathy.
Anyway, the origional plan is being actioned by me, I’ll kitbash a team.
grouch666 wrote: GW Must be planning both 10th Edition and Old World release this year to have such poor allocations of these boxes.
It does not make any sense otherwise!
I can't speak for other KIll Team boxed set releases (Ashes of Faith is the first one I've actually wanted to buy) but you can buy most of the models in the set separately. The only ones you can't currently buy are the Inquisitorial Agents, which we know will be sold on their own at some point. So GW have drummed up interest in these models now, selling them at a cheap price, so that anyone who missed out can buy them separately later on (at a much higher price).
This box also comes with a campaign book and other accessories. It would make sense to sell these separately too later on, if not then only the limited number of people who managed to get the box will actually be able to play the campaign. I don't know if GW will sell them separately, they're missing a trick if not.
And yes, GW has limited production capacity and a lot of it is currently being used to ramp up for 10th Edition. I don't know if Old World will require the same amount of capacity but that might be a factor too.
This is obviously profitable now, but will it hurt sales in the long run? I suspect so. My personal hobby budget is very limited currently, so missing out on sets like this means GW gets no money from me at all. I am sure I am not the only one.
Maybe catering primarily to whales is sufficient to sustain growth (as the folks who are able to sustain the scalpers, or more likely to buy everything at separately). We will probably find out in coming years.
Haighus wrote: Sent the following to GW customer service. Intrigued to see if I get a sensible response.
Hello,
I was very excited about the upcoming Kill Team: Ashes of Faith pre-order today, and I was ready to purchase the box first thing.
Unfortunately, by 10:00am today (when pre-orders are supposed to go live), the box was already sold out. As you can imagine, this was very disappointing. To rub salt in the wound, I received a promotional email advertising the box was available to pre-order ten minutes after it was already unavailable.
Further to this, the box set is already being resold on eBay for at least twice the price.
I am aware a similar thing occurred for the last Kill Team box.
As you can see, there is clearly huge demand for these boxsets, that far outstrips supply. It is causing a lot of bad will within the community and driving down interest in the wider kill team game. From my own perspective, that is £95 Games Workshop will not be getting from me this month, and not for lack of trying. Despite being a loyal customer of Games Workshop for 16 years, this is encouraging me to spend my money with other companies where I can actually obtain the product I want.
During the height of the pandemic, on some releases Games Workshop would honour out-of-stock pre-orders through the made-to-order process. I think the majority of customers would be happy to wait for a guaranteed box several weeks or months down the line rather than missing out now. This seems like an obvious solution to me.
In what way is Games Workshop planning to address this issue that is clear to their customers?
Looking forward to your response,
Name removed
Tried on lots of occasions. The response I always get is "go down to your local GW on release day".
Haighus wrote: Sent the following to GW customer service. Intrigued to see if I get a sensible response.
Hello,
I was very excited about the upcoming Kill Team: Ashes of Faith pre-order today, and I was ready to purchase the box first thing.
Unfortunately, by 10:00am today (when pre-orders are supposed to go live), the box was already sold out. As you can imagine, this was very disappointing. To rub salt in the wound, I received a promotional email advertising the box was available to pre-order ten minutes after it was already unavailable.
Further to this, the box set is already being resold on eBay for at least twice the price.
I am aware a similar thing occurred for the last Kill Team box.
As you can see, there is clearly huge demand for these boxsets, that far outstrips supply. It is causing a lot of bad will within the community and driving down interest in the wider kill team game. From my own perspective, that is £95 Games Workshop will not be getting from me this month, and not for lack of trying. Despite being a loyal customer of Games Workshop for 16 years, this is encouraging me to spend my money with other companies where I can actually obtain the product I want.
During the height of the pandemic, on some releases Games Workshop would honour out-of-stock pre-orders through the made-to-order process. I think the majority of customers would be happy to wait for a guaranteed box several weeks or months down the line rather than missing out now. This seems like an obvious solution to me.
In what way is Games Workshop planning to address this issue that is clear to their customers?
Looking forward to your response,
Name removed
Tried on lots of occasions. The response I always get is "go down to your local GW on release day".
For those who do regularly frequent their FLGWS on new release day, how does their stock generally go? Do they only have a couple of copies of new stuff, or do they carry enough to last beyond the opening ten minutes?
grouch666 wrote: GW Must be planning both 10th Edition and Old World release this year to have such poor allocations of these boxes.
It does not make any sense otherwise!
I can't speak for other KIll Team boxed set releases (Ashes of Faith is the first one I've actually wanted to buy) but you can buy most of the models in the set separately. The only ones you can't currently buy are the Inquisitorial Agents, which we know will be sold on their own at some point. So GW have drummed up interest in these models now, selling them at a cheap price, so that anyone who missed out can buy them separately later on (at a much higher price).
This box also comes with a campaign book and other accessories. It would make sense to sell these separately too later on, if not then only the limited number of people who managed to get the box will actually be able to play the campaign. I don't know if GW will sell them separately, they're missing a trick if not.
And yes, GW has limited production capacity and a lot of it is currently being used to ramp up for 10th Edition. I don't know if Old World will require the same amount of capacity but that might be a factor too.
This is obviously profitable now, but will it hurt sales in the long run? I suspect so. My personal hobby budget is very limited currently, so missing out on sets like this means GW gets no money from me at all. I am sure I am not the only one.
Maybe catering primarily to whales is sufficient to sustain growth (as the folks who are able to sustain the scalpers, or more likely to buy everything at separately). We will probably find out in coming years.
GW's biggest issue (and it has been this way for years) is not having enough production capacity to keep up with demand. Which is why it's puzzling that they release these boxed sets at all. We all have a price we're not willing to pay. I suspect though that if Ashes of Faith had a retail price of say £120 instead of £95 it still would have sold out. It might have taken a few more minutes but based on how fast it went I think GW would have had no problem shifting the stock.
Until either GW's products become less popular or they expand their production capacity to a point that is higher than demand they can continue to make odd decisions like this and still have huge profits.
For now I think GW aren't too concerned about the people who find the hobby / individual purchases too expensive. Many would argue it's been that way for decades. How much longer this will last for is anyone's guess.
grouch666 wrote: GW Must be planning both 10th Edition and Old World release this year to have such poor allocations of these boxes.
It does not make any sense otherwise!
I can't speak for other KIll Team boxed set releases (Ashes of Faith is the first one I've actually wanted to buy) but you can buy most of the models in the set separately. The only ones you can't currently buy are the Inquisitorial Agents, which we know will be sold on their own at some point. So GW have drummed up interest in these models now, selling them at a cheap price, so that anyone who missed out can buy them separately later on (at a much higher price).
This box also comes with a campaign book and other accessories. It would make sense to sell these separately too later on, if not then only the limited number of people who managed to get the box will actually be able to play the campaign. I don't know if GW will sell them separately, they're missing a trick if not.
And yes, GW has limited production capacity and a lot of it is currently being used to ramp up for 10th Edition. I don't know if Old World will require the same amount of capacity but that might be a factor too.
This is obviously profitable now, but will it hurt sales in the long run? I suspect so. My personal hobby budget is very limited currently, so missing out on sets like this means GW gets no money from me at all. I am sure I am not the only one.
Maybe catering primarily to whales is sufficient to sustain growth (as the folks who are able to sustain the scalpers, or more likely to buy everything at separately). We will probably find out in coming years.
GW's biggest issue (and it has been this way for years) is not having enough production capacity to keep up with demand. Which is why it's puzzling that they release these boxed sets at all. We all have a price we're not willing to pay. I suspect though that if Ashes of Faith had a retail price of say £120 instead of £95 it still would have sold out. It might have taken a few more minutes but based on how fast it went I think GW would have had no problem shifting the stock.
Until either GW's products become less popular or they expand their production capacity to a point that is higher than demand they can continue to make odd decisions like this and still have huge profits.
For now I think GW aren't too concerned about the people who find the hobby / individual purchases too expensive. Many would argue it's been that way for decades. How much longer this will last for is anyone's guess.
I agree production capacity is an issue.
I think the issue is that these boxsets used to be a reliable way of keeping people like me engaged in the hobby. Now they are not. The made to order is an obvious solution.
Maybe this won't get better until they expand factory capacity and/or bring printing services in house, but it is still frustrating.
Geifer wrote: Regarding the models GW doesn't want you to buy, is that a photoshop mishap or is the Interrogator a vampire?
We may need a new round of redone Marines to keep up with embiggened normal humans very soon.
Going by these set shots and action shots, it seems like the Interrogator is in ordinary human scale and the above is some sort of mishap:
Note that he is specifically not 1.5 times the height of a SoS
Still a lanky lad. Must be from the Dan Abnett school of the Inquisition, where the more important characters tend to be over 6 foot...
Yeah, but at least he's not so badly photoshopped that his 28mm base is as wide as the sister's 32mm base
Thank you. I was hoping someone might have a promo photo like that.
Agreed, looks like he might still be leaning towards the larger side of GW's human range, but at least it doesn't look like he's going to stand out like a freak.
Haighus wrote: Sent the following to GW customer service. Intrigued to see if I get a sensible response.
Hello,
I was very excited about the upcoming Kill Team: Ashes of Faith pre-order today, and I was ready to purchase the box first thing.
Unfortunately, by 10:00am today (when pre-orders are supposed to go live), the box was already sold out. As you can imagine, this was very disappointing. To rub salt in the wound, I received a promotional email advertising the box was available to pre-order ten minutes after it was already unavailable.
Further to this, the box set is already being resold on eBay for at least twice the price.
I am aware a similar thing occurred for the last Kill Team box.
As you can see, there is clearly huge demand for these boxsets, that far outstrips supply. It is causing a lot of bad will within the community and driving down interest in the wider kill team game. From my own perspective, that is £95 Games Workshop will not be getting from me this month, and not for lack of trying. Despite being a loyal customer of Games Workshop for 16 years, this is encouraging me to spend my money with other companies where I can actually obtain the product I want.
During the height of the pandemic, on some releases Games Workshop would honour out-of-stock pre-orders through the made-to-order process. I think the majority of customers would be happy to wait for a guaranteed box several weeks or months down the line rather than missing out now. This seems like an obvious solution to me.
In what way is Games Workshop planning to address this issue that is clear to their customers?
Looking forward to your response,
Name removed
Tried on lots of occasions. The response I always get is "go down to your local GW on release day".
And that response is BS, at least for GW Helsinki. I called them on 15th of May to reserve a copy of Ashes, and they said "we dont have any way to reserve copies, all orders go through the main GW website even from us". Pathetic
I clearly remember being able to reserve a box of Space Hulk when GW Helsinki was still located on the other side of Kamppi shopping mall.. but that was way back when "1 staffer per store" wasn't even in the cards yet. Back then, going into the GW store actually felt like going to a proper trad store such as Stockmann, where staffers remember regular customers by name and service is always impeccable.
GW's biggest issue (and it has been this way for years) is not having enough production capacity to keep up with demand. Which is why it's puzzling that they release these boxed sets at all. We all have a price we're not willing to pay. I suspect though that if Ashes of Faith had a retail price of say £120 instead of £95 it still would have sold out. It might have taken a few more minutes but based on how fast it went I think GW would have had no problem shifting the stock.
I think the "production capacity" at GW story is a load of rubbish that GW won't comment on.
My opinion is that it's the paperwork/cardboard that is their issue. They probably order the cardboard boxes as flatpacks from China along with books, tokens etc many many months before it's due to sell. They are too scared to order too many, or too stupid to order enough. I don't think it's their plastic production that is causing these issues.
I've bought several models recently as presents for people from the GW online store and these expensive models have come in plain white boxes with more or less photocopied instruction sheets. Not a plastic issue, but paperwork and printed boxes.
I just hope they've ordered more than enough paper/card/boxes/books/etc for Leviathan or 40k v10 release is going to be a disaster for the players, but a "sell out" PR success for the shareholders/newspapers.
And for the record, GW's crappy stock / fomo tactics have meant in the last year, I must have saved nearly £1000. Not to mention the extras I would have purchased for the games I tried to get. I guess I should be grateful.
GW's biggest issue (and it has been this way for years) is not having enough production capacity to keep up with demand. Which is why it's puzzling that they release these boxed sets at all. We all have a price we're not willing to pay. I suspect though that if Ashes of Faith had a retail price of say £120 instead of £95 it still would have sold out. It might have taken a few more minutes but based on how fast it went I think GW would have had no problem shifting the stock.
I think the "production capacity" at GW story is a load of rubbish that GW won't comment on.
My opinion is that it's the paperwork/cardboard that is their issue. They probably order the cardboard boxes as flatpacks from China along with books, tokens etc many many months before it's due to sell. They are too scared to order too many, or too stupid to order enough. I don't think it's their plastic production that is causing these issues.
I've bought several models recently as presents for people from the GW online store and these expensive models have come in plain white boxes with more or less photocopied instruction sheets. Not a plastic issue, but paperwork and printed boxes.
I just hope they've ordered more than enough paper/card/boxes/books/etc for Leviathan or 40k v10 release is going to be a disaster for the players, but a "sell out" PR success for the shareholders/newspapers.
And for the record, GW's crappy stock / fomo tactics have meant in the last year, I must have saved nearly £1000. Not to mention the extras I would have purchased for the games I tried to get. I guess I should be grateful.
My feelings are similar. I still don't understand why GW prioritized building their own paint factory over facilitating their own paper/cardboard printing in-house instead. The fact they need to rely on 3rd party cardstock etc is seriously holding them back
because cardboard is expensive and having the most expensive part of a product line outsourced to a cheaper region makes sense
specially as this is only for the initial run while the stand alone releases later don't need all that
and that the cardboard might be the problem was already discussed for Cursed City
and because it is ordered for cheap in China, it is nothing that GW can react very quickly as the container shipping it will take months, and ordering another container or doing express by plane will be expensive either way
and other products, like CC have shown them, that doing another order of boxes is not worth it (those that just wanted the models buy them later and the boxed game itself does not sell out after the initial release)
I suggest rather than wasting time trying to get any GW fomo releases people spend that time building and painting the minis they have. There will always be a new box full of "cheap" goodies around the corner.
I find this whole fomo style of selling really toxic and detrimental to the hobby and i'd rather people don't constantly fall for it. I mean I am speaking for myself at the very least but i've got a year's worth of plastic to paint. No need for anymore boxes
kodos wrote: because cardboard is expensive and having the most expensive part of a product line outsourced to a cheaper region makes sense
specially as this is only for the initial run while the stand alone releases later don't need all that
and that the cardboard might be the problem was already discussed for Cursed City
and because it is ordered for cheap in China, it is nothing that GW can react very quickly as the container shipping it will take months, and ordering another container or doing express by plane will be expensive either way
and other products, like CC have shown them, that doing another order of boxes is not worth it (those that just wanted the models buy them later and the boxed game itself does not sell out after the initial release)
I think this is not entirely right, I won’t buy these models separately.
Killteam died here as well for similar reasons, the easy boxes where what kept it going.
As if people need to jump though effort, they are playing games they think is more fun.
So I do think this FOMO driven sales does harm GW, and they can only do it since they are so big. A lot of places won’t have a good selection of good games, and players to run them.
Or a large internet fan base that will push every game and effectively exclude others from discussion on the wider form of the internet.
But what it does harm I think is the community’s these games form, and pricing people out is fast approaching here. I wanted the minis for a price since individual kits are just too expensive over other in the market for me.
I find myself in a very odd position. I'm new to all this (or at least the GW side of it) and only really have some of the first issues of the partworks and a 40k starter set on the shelf. I saw this was coming out at about 10 this morning, so logged on at 0955, added to basket and bought one.
Then I see that it went quickly out of stock and this always seems to happen and people are selling for twice the price on Ebay already. And this seems to be a conscious GW tactic.
I'm conflicted. I basically wanted the minis for maybe learning to play or for D&D. Hopefully this set is a good set for learning to play Kill Team?
If not, I'll bang it for sale on here. For the price I paid for it.
Apple fox wrote: I think this is not entirely right, I won’t buy these models separately.
Killteam died here as well for similar reasons, the easy boxes where what kept it going.
As if people need to jump though effort, they are playing games they think is more fun.
So I do think this FOMO driven sales does harm GW, and they can only do it since they are so big. A lot of places won’t have a good selection of good games, and players to run them.
Or a large internet fan base that will push every game and effectively exclude others from discussion on the wider form of the internet.
But what it does harm I think is the community’s these games form, and pricing people out is fast approaching here. I wanted the minis for a price since individual kits are just too expensive over other in the market for me.
well, if the only reason a game is played is because of regular boxe releases, i guess the game itself is not worth playing in the first place but only played because it is a hyped GW game
and it does not hurt GW, not as long as people buy the boxes and play their games, if KT died in your region, which games to people play instead? As long as it is another GW game, it is a win for them
khimbar wrote: I find myself in a very odd position. I'm new to all this (or at least the GW side of it) and only really have some of the first issues of the partworks and a 40k starter set on the shelf. I saw this was coming out at about 10 this morning, so logged on at 0955, added to basket and bought one.
Then I see that it went quickly out of stock and this always seems to happen and people are selling for twice the price on Ebay already. And this seems to be a conscious GW tactic.
I'm conflicted. I basically wanted the minis for maybe learning to play or for D&D. Hopefully this set is a good set for learning to play Kill Team?
If not, I'll bang it for sale on here. For the price I paid for it.
No reason to feel guilty, you bought yours fair and square - you just had more luck than many. I believe you still need the base rules to play then contents of the set. That said the campaign looked like a really cool idea, so if I were you I'd keep the box and enjoy the contents.
khimbar wrote: I find myself in a very odd position. I'm new to all this (or at least the GW side of it) and only really have some of the first issues of the partworks and a 40k starter set on the shelf. I saw this was coming out at about 10 this morning, so logged on at 0955, added to basket and bought one.
Then I see that it went quickly out of stock and this always seems to happen and people are selling for twice the price on Ebay already. And this seems to be a conscious GW tactic.
I'm conflicted. I basically wanted the minis for maybe learning to play or for D&D. Hopefully this set is a good set for learning to play Kill Team?
If not, I'll bang it for sale on here. For the price I paid for it.
FWIW, the box does not contain the basic KT rule book, so you won't be able to play without buying that as well. Lacking terrain and the Bespoke Measuring Tools as well, it's not a good set to learn Kill Team.
Then I see that it went quickly out of stock and this always seems to happen and people are selling for twice the price on Ebay already. And this seems to be a conscious GW tactic.
If this is your only source for that conclusion then I'd park that thought. GW has a limited supply and can't seem to figure how to get that into the hands that matter. Selling out to scalpers is not good in the long run for GW and they know it. Their only real solution (an actual pre-order which would determine print runs some time in the future) isn't viable since this isn't an important release and all their other production is tied up in things that actually matter, ie. the 10th edition launch.
What GW really needs to do is address the damage these splash releases do to the brand they are released for. Maybe this as easy as releasing the "cardboard" parts separately or as a reduced price digital download at the same time. We all know the Inquisitorial henchpeople will come later with no old model "discount". But as it is GW makes these throwaway* releases that get them big cash for little work and minimal long term damage.
* They aren't really throwaway, but they are inconsequential to the actual game. The parts will be available later without the big box price/discount.
Apple fox wrote: I think this is not entirely right, I won’t buy these models separately.
Killteam died here as well for similar reasons, the easy boxes where what kept it going.
As if people need to jump though effort, they are playing games they think is more fun.
So I do think this FOMO driven sales does harm GW, and they can only do it since they are so big. A lot of places won’t have a good selection of good games, and players to run them.
Or a large internet fan base that will push every game and effectively exclude others from discussion on the wider form of the internet.
But what it does harm I think is the community’s these games form, and pricing people out is fast approaching here. I wanted the minis for a price since individual kits are just too expensive over other in the market for me.
well, if the only reason a game is played is because of regular boxe releases, i guess the game itself is not worth playing in the first place but only played because it is a hyped GW game
and it does not hurt GW, not as long as people buy the boxes and play their games, if KT died in your region, which games to people play instead? As long as it is another GW game, it is a win for them
New releases are supposed to be a hype generator for a community, and they where playing it more like a board game.
Since some players still feel they haven’t been updated to the new rules yet.
And no GW games played now, maybe 10th will see some play.
And the store can’t Get GW kits like this that would sell. So yay for GW!
Then I see that it went quickly out of stock and this always seems to happen and people are selling for twice the price on Ebay already. And this seems to be a conscious GW tactic.
If this is your only source for that conclusion then I'd park that thought. GW has a limited supply and can't seem to figure how to get that into the hands that matter. Selling out to scalpers is not good in the long run for GW and they know it. Their only real solution (an actual pre-order which would determine print runs some time in the future) isn't viable since this isn't an important release and all their other production is tied up in things that actually matter, ie. the 10th edition launch.
What GW really needs to do is address the damage these splash releases do to the brand they are released for. Maybe this as easy as releasing the "cardboard" parts separately or as a reduced price digital download at the same time. We all know the Inquisitorial henchpeople will come later with no old model "discount". But as it is GW makes these throwaway* releases that get them big cash for little work and minimal long term damage.
* They aren't really throwaway, but they are inconsequential to the actual game. The parts will be available later without the big box price/discount.
Thanks for that, all food for thought. My journey to it was Youtube videos saying 'Great value' and then looking at some of the models and thinking 'Yeah, can use them for DnD or Frostgrave if I don't like the game'. Then having a look at 0955 and clicking buy now.
I can see how this would get irksome over multiple releases, I've been reading other threads on other box sets. I am curious how much GW care? Or what they could do.
New releases are supposed to be a hype generator for a community, and they where playing it more like a board game.
Since some players still feel they haven’t been updated to the new rules yet.
TBF for anyone who is casually interested in Kill Team, being told the last few boxsets sold out in 5 minutes is a hype generator. So next time they are looking at a individual release from one of the sets, they will be encouraged to buy by FOMO.
El Torro wrote: GW's biggest issue (and it has been this way for years) is not having enough production capacity to keep up with demand. Which is why it's puzzling that they release these boxed sets at all.
To sustain demand. FOMO is real and GW figured out how to tap into that a loooooong time ago.
I didn't think this was quite this bad, I managed to get a couple of the kill team boxes lately without issue. I think this one must've been ultra low volume due to the printed and cardboard components.
I checked with my local GW. They are getting precisely ONE box next Saturday. The store opens at ten, first come first served. 3 people had already asked before me.
The store manager said please keep any fights confined to outside the store...
Went live at 1255 EST. Sold out by 1258 EST. Thats wild man.
Whats up with the HH legion specific contemptors? Every single one was out of stock when the preorders went up? Did the US distribution centers just not get them in time?
I was ready and raring to go, refreshing the page from about 12:50-1:00pm, the item came up exactly at 1:00:00, I hit "buy," and it was already sold out.
Think I might just let this purchase go, I'm not about to pay some scalper more for these items. Hell, it probably makes more sense just to convert my inquisitorial weirdos.
Then I see that it went quickly out of stock and this always seems to happen and people are selling for twice the price on Ebay already. And this seems to be a conscious GW tactic.
If this is your only source for that conclusion then I'd park that thought. GW has a limited supply and can't seem to figure how to get that into the hands that matter. Selling out to scalpers is not good in the long run for GW and they know it. Their only real solution (an actual pre-order which would determine print runs some time in the future) isn't viable since this isn't an important release and all their other production is tied up in things that actually matter, ie. the 10th edition launch.
What GW really needs to do is address the damage these splash releases do to the brand they are released for. Maybe this as easy as releasing the "cardboard" parts separately or as a reduced price digital download at the same time. We all know the Inquisitorial henchpeople will come later with no old model "discount". But as it is GW makes these throwaway* releases that get them big cash for little work and minimal long term damage.
* They aren't really throwaway, but they are inconsequential to the actual game. The parts will be available later without the big box price/discount.
Thanks for that, all food for thought. My journey to it was Youtube videos saying 'Great value' and then looking at some of the models and thinking 'Yeah, can use them for DnD or Frostgrave if I don't like the game'. Then having a look at 0955 and clicking buy now.
I can see how this would get irksome over multiple releases, I've been reading other threads on other box sets. I am curious how much GW care? Or what they could do.
Considering it's a persisting problem I think it's safe to say that they don't care enough. It's not particularly odd for them to keep going like that either. They frequently sell out within a very short amount of time and any discontent that causes does not manifest as a drop in sales and profit. Which is mostly down to demand outstripping production by so much that they simply don't have to please as many people to remain at maximum profitability because enough other customers are ready to take the place of ones who are fed up. So unfortunately they can do pretty much as they please, with a result as predictable as you would expect of a company with shareholders.
Until that changes, whatever they could do is not relevant because they have no incentive to change anything.
It's not deliberate, and it's not some sort of conspiracy. These things can easily be explained by one of two perfectly reasonable problems:
1. As many have suggested above, they may simply not have enough production/warehousing capacity to make enough of everything, particularly with the very important 40K 10th edition launch in the offing.
2. Poor forecasting. Like every similar company does, I assume the GW has business intelligence folks who are responsible for predicting demand of upcoming products. Guessing too high can be disastrous, as the company can be stuck with unsold inventory, which cuts into the product profitability or even lead to a loss. Guessing too low is more of a missed opportunity, because you're leaving money on the table. Ideally, you want to make slightly less than the actual demand, to engender that feeling of FOMO, but not leave some large percentage of potential customers out in the cold, as we saw here. Of course, these forecasts must be made many months in advance, due to the time it takes to produce and ship the product..
It's easy to say "this keeps happening," and I'm sure it does. But what we don't see so are the times when they forecasted too high and overproduced a product. That can take quite a few months to become apparant.
It's a shame as we don't even know that the actual narrative campaign stuff *will* get released separately.
I do think demand forecasting is always going to be nigh on impossible for GW though with any release that is catering to multiple groups. Like, they can't even know how many actual Kill Team players there are as none of the boxes appeal purely to KT players. Every box has crossover appeal with something else and at that point it's pretty much impossible to measure it.
I still think the scalpers are the issue though. GW may well be forecasting demand accurately with regards to people that want to own the box, but if they're snapped up by people that don't actually want them (i.e. scalpers) the players are going to miss out.
I think the Narrative Campaign supplement, cards and tokens might get an individual release, but it'll be at least 3-4 months as usual
Automatically Appended Next Post:
cerebaton wrote: I still think the scalpers are the issue though. GW may well be forecasting demand accurately with regards to people that want to own the box, but if they're snapped up by people that don't actually want them (i.e. scalpers) the players are going to miss out.
Problem is, scalping is not illegal. I don't know if there is anything GW can do about it, aside from MTO-releases.. And their current release churn strategy leaves no viable way to do MTO-only boxes if new stuff needs to flow out every week
cerebaton wrote: I still think the scalpers are the issue though. GW may well be forecasting demand accurately with regards to people that want to own the box, but if they're snapped up by people that don't actually want them (i.e. scalpers) the players are going to miss out.
Problem is, scalping is not illegal. I don't know if there is anything GW can do about it, aside from MTO-releases.. And their current release churn strategy leaves no viable way to do MTO-only boxes if new stuff needs to flow out every week
GW could throw out fewer boxes but make more of the ones they do release. Keep them in production longer. No need to pay scalpers' inflated prices for something that is available from the manufacturer at normal MSRP and from retailers at a discount. But that's not as profitable for GW. They'd hit saturation at some point and get fewer sales out of a product before it's replaced by the next one whereas lower production runs of entirely new items released in rapid succession are guaranteed to sell out each time.
You can think of scalpers as scumbags (as it is occasionally put) and blame them all you like, but when it comes down to it they're a problem of GW's making. GW wants limited product, and limited product attracts scalpers.
Even if they don't want to print more copies, there are software solutions that they could be putting back in place to at least limit the impact of scalpers - the queue system, for example, seemed to be helping with that.
If they could manage an "n per address" restriction for products (ignoring GW stores for that purpose), and maybe doing a CAPTCHA of some form (if they're still working against bots - I'm not 100% either way) they could really make a dent in the percentage of a release that's going to scalpers.
Sure, without increasing production those steps might only extent the availability window by an hour or so, but at least then things wouldn't be selling out before the pre-order officially opens!
I'm not blaming the WHC guys at all, but how daft do they look putting up articles in the afternoon to try to get people to pre-order a product which sold out hours earlier?
As I said on the previous page, go onto ebay, and casually look at a few of the other items ebayers are selling who are selling this.
Seems to be quite a few people with quite a few higher demand FOMO items from many different avenues, e.g. limited release Nikes of late etc.
It is branching out to the resellers who quite literally try to make a living off of this, so have all sorts of means to secure items quickly (bots). This is different to scalpers within the community, these people are basically professional scalpers. Combined with the low production etc, this is a problem.
I've seen facebook and instagram ads off reseller 'coaches' who were saying how you 'missed out' on gallowdark etc.
I expect leviathon may not be as smooth running as people expect if there's a good amount of people from outside of the hobby trying to get their bit.
I really really really wish people wouldn't buy off eBay for inflated prices, kill the profit and the problem will go away.
We feel that we need to address some issues that are coming to light due to the current Games Workshop release issues as there seems to be a lack of perspective accompanying peoples rightly felt disappointment at missing out, please consider the following:
1. Games Workshop has seen unprecedented growth with the fallout of COVID and returning lapsed hobbyists to the fold that no one could have forecast.
2. Games Workshop is 6 months behind with new releases meaning they have had no time to produce more of items coming out in advance due to lead times being truncated. Not to mention they are taking up storage space needed for Leviathan.
3. A lot of these releases contain printed material not just models and these items come from China as it is far cheaper to print there and is the industry standard.
4. Games Workshop is devoting well over 80% of its manufacturing power to producing copies of Leviathan and if our sources are correct there are 4 times as many as the total number of Indomitus even after Cast on Demand.
5. This is very much a lesser of two evils choice from Games Workshop with Leviathan having to take priority due to it being a core product needed for the new edition
As a result of this and the fear mongering that seems to be ever present on social media, we are being inundated with emails etc regarding Leviathan that we just cannot answer. So, we will address the main points here:
1. No, we cannot do a pre-pre-order especially when we do not know the price.
2. We do not know the release date or any numbers for stock.
3. We have looked at sales numbers from Indomitus to get a rough idea of what we need.
4. There will be plenty of stock to go around of Leviathan
5. We don’t know anymore than you do and get our information on Sundays like you all for any pre-order
6. There’s no point doing an interest list as people sign up to multiple places meaning they are not a fair reflection of interest.
7. We will offer the best price we can as always
Hopefully, this allows some tempering and understanding of both your anger and disappointment of missing out on the last few releases but we can very much imagine you all would be more upset if you missed out on copies of Leviathan.
As always, we love each and every one of you and are so thankful that you allow ourselves to support your hobby journey.
We feel that we need to address some issues that are coming to light due to the current Games Workshop release issues as there seems to be a lack of perspective accompanying peoples rightly felt disappointment at missing out, please consider the following:
1. Games Workshop has seen unprecedented growth with the fallout of COVID and returning lapsed hobbyists to the fold that no one could have forecast.
2. Games Workshop is 6 months behind with new releases meaning they have had no time to produce more of items coming out in advance due to lead times being truncated. Not to mention they are taking up storage space needed for Leviathan.
3. A lot of these releases contain printed material not just models and these items come from China as it is far cheaper to print there and is the industry standard.
4. Games Workshop is devoting well over 80% of its manufacturing power to producing copies of Leviathan and if our sources are correct there are 4 times as many as the total number of Indomitus even after Cast on Demand.
5. This is very much a lesser of two evils choice from Games Workshop with Leviathan having to take priority due to it being a core product needed for the new edition
As a result of this and the fear mongering that seems to be ever present on social media, we are being inundated with emails etc regarding Leviathan that we just cannot answer. So, we will address the main points here:
1. No, we cannot do a pre-pre-order especially when we do not know the price.
2. We do not know the release date or any numbers for stock.
3. We have looked at sales numbers from Indomitus to get a rough idea of what we need.
4. There will be plenty of stock to go around of Leviathan
5. We don’t know anymore than you do and get our information on Sundays like you all for any pre-order
6. There’s no point doing an interest list as people sign up to multiple places meaning they are not a fair reflection of interest.
7. We will offer the best price we can as always
Hopefully, this allows some tempering and understanding of both your anger and disappointment of missing out on the last few releases but we can very much imagine you all would be more upset if you missed out on copies of Leviathan.
As always, we love each and every one of you and are so thankful that you allow ourselves to support your hobby journey.
Kindest Regards
The Manager
Thanks for bringing it up, but that mail is some grade-A nonsense in my opinion - it's all fine and dandy to speculate about reasons and happenings at GW, i do it myself all the time and a lot of it is not really speculation as much as extrapolation from known sources, but it rankles me a bit when stuff gets presented as 'facts' or 'information from sources', with concrete numbers like 'There is 4 times as much... 80% of their capacity...' when you're later on admitting the single salient point in all of this:
5. We don’t know anymore than you do and get our information on Sundays like you all for any pre-order
Again, i understand why independent stockists want to cover their behinds and at the same time keep relations with GW amicable and professional (i.e. can't blame them or criticize their practices too openly) but the above is all Ouija-boards and tea leaves.
Similar posts have been coming from other retailers as well
some even going further speculating that this is now intended and not because of pandemic, warehouse and war, as it already happened before
some retailers also wrote that they only get sets that don't sell via GW shops, like the high demand KT sets they can only pre-order 1-2, while some AoS sets they must order 10 on release (after pre-order on the online shop)
we will only know if Leviathan and the upcoming Codex books are handled differently
cerebaton wrote: I still think the scalpers are the issue though. GW may well be forecasting demand accurately with regards to people that want to own the box, but if they're snapped up by people that don't actually want them (i.e. scalpers) the players are going to miss out.
but boxes scalpers sell are still available on the market
and people who are willing to pay GW prices, a litte more makes no difference as it is a luxury hobby overall and it is not like as GW is the budget option (if price for a game is a problem, don't play GW games or buy GW models to play your games)
and scalper prices will be cheaper than the stand alone release anyway, if there is one, so you are still save
but assuming there are enough boxes for everyone if 3rd party sellers would not get them, does not have a valid base as there are way to few available from re-sellers
so even if you are willing to pay the higher price, no guarantee that you get a copy
hence the problem is GW, their marketing, sales technique and forecast.
None of that stops GW from going “we saw that there was exceptionally high demand for this product, so we are opening a one week MTO window for anyone who couldn’t get a copy, but it may take an extended period (6-months?) for these to be delivered.”
This would solve so many problems; we get our product, GW get a bunch of cash in the bank they otherwise would leave on the table and the scalpers get fethed…
They’ve done this before in recent years; heck my Goff rocker only just arrived from an order last year!
Of course they can, and they have done this in the past.
Yet as they don't do this any more we conclude that it was not worth it for them
(like Cursed City which a lot of shops still have in stock after a MTO like print run)
it is not about models they can produce in house, but boxed games were they need to order externally and ship it.
like if the initial order is 1 shipping container full of boxes/cardstock, and it sells out, making an MTO that only fills halve a container, the cost for the cardstock is doubled, meaning less profit
with the only gain being some customers being less grumpy and may not buying the upcoming box as they wait for the one they ordered
in addition, KT is running on a season model, so any orders that take longer as the current season last have no benefit for GW
We feel that we need to address some issues that are coming to light due to the current Games Workshop release issues as there seems to be a lack of perspective accompanying peoples rightly felt disappointment at missing out, please consider the following:
1. Games Workshop has seen unprecedented growth with the fallout of COVID and returning lapsed hobbyists to the fold that no one could have forecast. 2. Games Workshop is 6 months behind with new releases meaning they have had no time to produce more of items coming out in advance due to lead times being truncated. Not to mention they are taking up storage space needed for Leviathan. 3. A lot of these releases contain printed material not just models and these items come from China as it is far cheaper to print there and is the industry standard. 4. Games Workshop is devoting well over 80% of its manufacturing power to producing copies of Leviathan and if our sources are correct there are 4 times as many as the total number of Indomitus even after Cast on Demand. 5. This is very much a lesser of two evils choice from Games Workshop with Leviathan having to take priority due to it being a core product needed for the new edition
As a result of this and the fear mongering that seems to be ever present on social media, we are being inundated with emails etc regarding Leviathan that we just cannot answer. So, we will address the main points here:
1. No, we cannot do a pre-pre-order especially when we do not know the price. 2. We do not know the release date or any numbers for stock. 3. We have looked at sales numbers from Indomitus to get a rough idea of what we need. 4. There will be plenty of stock to go around of Leviathan 5. We don’t know anymore than you do and get our information on Sundays like you all for any pre-order 6. There’s no point doing an interest list as people sign up to multiple places meaning they are not a fair reflection of interest. 7. We will offer the best price we can as always
Hopefully, this allows some tempering and understanding of both your anger and disappointment of missing out on the last few releases but we can very much imagine you all would be more upset if you missed out on copies of Leviathan.
As always, we love each and every one of you and are so thankful that you allow ourselves to support your hobby journey.
Kindest Regards
The Manager
So much of this sounds like problems of GW's own creation.
They're behind on new releases? Stop insisting that you have to put them out every single week of the year. We're in the dark as much as the rest of you? That's on GW for their insane secrecy. Stores here can't even tell us the price until they go up for pre-order. That's insane.
And the "We're behind because of COVID" excuse isn't just wearing thing, it's torn through.
We feel that we need to address some issues that are coming to light due to the current Games Workshop release issues as there seems to be a lack of perspective accompanying peoples rightly felt disappointment at missing out, please consider the following:
1. Games Workshop has seen unprecedented growth with the fallout of COVID and returning lapsed hobbyists to the fold that no one could have forecast.
2. Games Workshop is 6 months behind with new releases meaning they have had no time to produce more of items coming out in advance due to lead times being truncated. Not to mention they are taking up storage space needed for Leviathan.
3. A lot of these releases contain printed material not just models and these items come from China as it is far cheaper to print there and is the industry standard.
4. Games Workshop is devoting well over 80% of its manufacturing power to producing copies of Leviathan and if our sources are correct there are 4 times as many as the total number of Indomitus even after Cast on Demand.
5. This is very much a lesser of two evils choice from Games Workshop with Leviathan having to take priority due to it being a core product needed for the new edition
As a result of this and the fear mongering that seems to be ever present on social media, we are being inundated with emails etc regarding Leviathan that we just cannot answer. So, we will address the main points here:
1. No, we cannot do a pre-pre-order especially when we do not know the price.
2. We do not know the release date or any numbers for stock.
3. We have looked at sales numbers from Indomitus to get a rough idea of what we need.
4. There will be plenty of stock to go around of Leviathan
5. We don’t know anymore than you do and get our information on Sundays like you all for any pre-order
6. There’s no point doing an interest list as people sign up to multiple places meaning they are not a fair reflection of interest.
7. We will offer the best price we can as always
Hopefully, this allows some tempering and understanding of both your anger and disappointment of missing out on the last few releases but we can very much imagine you all would be more upset if you missed out on copies of Leviathan.
As always, we love each and every one of you and are so thankful that you allow ourselves to support your hobby journey.
Kindest Regards
The Manager
So much of this sounds like problems of GW's own creation.
They're behind on new releases? Stop insisting that you have to put them out every single week of the year.
We're in the dark as much as the rest of you? That's on GW for their insane secrecy. Stores here can't even tell us the price until they go up for pre-order. That's insane.
And they "We're behind because of COVID" excuse isn't just wearing thing, it's torn through.
They formulated that one badly, but that's the only one you can actually give them - it's not so much that they're (probably) behind on releases, it's that the container time from China to Europe inflated from ~60 days to more than 120 days on average, so there's basically a hole of 2-3 months in their processes. That's the only fact that can be proven/shown with data from impartial, external sources and is definitely more than a made-up excuse.
That being said, this situation has been going on for more than three years now, you can't blame everything on Covid forever. If you haven't figured some way to cope with that in a professional way as a company by now, that's squarely on you. And of course the issue is made worse by GW's habitual unwillingness to communicate and explain things.
not like containers are the only way to get stuff from china, it is just the cheapest way to do it
so being behind 6 months is not a big enough problem for GW to invest the money necessary to solve it
hence it is just an excuse
and in general being behind on release can also be solved by pausing them, but guess this is not an option for GW as of their own marketing (a game not getting something new every month is dead and not worth playing)
LMAO @ "...but we can very much imagine you all would be more upset if you missed out on copies of Leviathan"
They think Leviathan is like the second coming.. when it's a box I already know for sure I am not going to be buying
There is no need to sympathise with GW, and in fact, I have not heard them complaining. Retailers are probably the ones who suffer from stock shortages the most
NAVARRO wrote: Poor things. I think we should give a bit of help to GW and not buy at all.
That's certainly my plan. I really don't get the FOMO on this:
The teams are either out already or will get their own release relatively soon
The campaign may or may not, but I don't think for a moment people are falling over themselves to spend £95 to get the campaign rules
Sure, there's a discount on the individual releases but it's not significant enough to get worked up about missing out on (especially as FLGS will be carrying the individual boxes anyway).
You don't need to get everything on initial release. It's ok to miss out on stuff
Seems like somthing that should be illegal. Advertising things that you can't even buy? If stock runs out after 1min and it happens more than twice a year then this should be illegal. Make more or advertise in a much smaller area otherwise these are just psychological tactics to invoke a sense of scarcity and encourage FOMO. Wich should be illegal. The time when these big companys can get away with everything under the sun needs to end.
Boosykes wrote: Seems like somthing that should be illegal. Advertising things that you can't even buy? If stock runs out after 1min and it happens more than twice a year then this should be illegal. Make more or advertise in a much smaller area otherwise these are just psychological tactics to invoke a sense of scarcity and encourage FOMO. Wich should be illegal. The time when these big companys can get away with everything under the sun needs to end.
These advertisements are automated though, e-mails and website posts set to go up at a certain time, much as the pre-order window itself.
Charax wrote: Sure, there's a discount on the individual releases but it's not significant enough to get worked up about missing out on (especially as FLGS will be carrying the individual boxes anyway).
You don't need to get everything on initial release. It's ok to miss out on stuff
Last time I saw someone run the numbers, the miniatures aspect of the box worked out at about 1/2 RRP, even ignoring any of the paper/card content - what level of discount is required before you can start getting wound up about it selling out before the pre-order window opens?
=][= KT - Unknown
Scions - £27.50
SoS - £35
Dark Commune - £32.50
Accursed Cultists - £32.50
Cultists - £30
Total - £157.50 + =][= KT (probably £37.50?)
NAVARRO wrote: Poor things. I think we should give a bit of help to GW and not buy at all.
Agreed. It's the only way to change GW's marketing practices for the better. Not sure exactly what percent of consumers would be necessary to start a panic in the GW boardroom, but (for example) if 75% of the market base stopped buying for a year, I think GW would stop overproducing core boxes like Indomitus and Leviathan, and at least slow the churn and FOMO marketing. This would also dismay the scalpers and professional resellers, and perhaps get them to stop.
Of course that will never happen, as if enough consumers did boycott for a year, enough would break the boycott to buy stuff now that new releases did not sell out before official pre-release orders go live.
And I agree with those who say these are problems of GW's own making. There is no reason to weep for them, "oh poor little rich boy!" It is a deliberate marketing strategy capitalizing on FOMO and encouraging impulse buying. It is to their benefit and their stockholders, though not the consumer's.
Like much of the 'x units sold' or 'only y left' things in online stores, it's pretty much guaranteed to be a lie / dark pattern marketing. These numbers are almost never real, but carefully calculated fictions to instill a sense of urgency and at the same time trust in the vendor. Much like ticking countdowns that tell you that an offer will only be valid for x minutes or whatever, they exploit weaknesses in human cognition.
tauist wrote: Decided I will use Palanite Enforcer torsos for the Scions, they are also 25mil based so should match nicely and still keeps the og base size
The Palanites do have two legs to attach to their torso rather than the waist of the Scions, so they might be difficult to combine. Also, watch out for their annoying, intrusive shoulder-pads!
tauist wrote: Decided I will use Palanite Enforcer torsos for the Scions, they are also 25mil based so should match nicely and still keeps the og base size
The Palanites do have two legs to attach to their torso rather than the waist of the Scions, so they might be difficult to combine. Also, watch out for their annoying, intrusive shoulder-pads!
Oh, I'll just be using the Scion arms and accessories. Palanite shoulder pads will get the saw. I already found some nice reference picts via Google Image search
I won't play ball with regards to GW's tactic of selling via fomo, although I'll admit I have in the past. Fed up of it now.
If it were to go up as a made to order I would get one, other than that this is money GW won't be getting from me.
Whoever it was that predicted 'Their answer will be Go down to your local GW' was spot-on. Other than that, it's noncommittal faff as usual.
Better answer than I got, it suggests they at least recognise selling out before pre-orders officially go live might be a bit off... To be honest, I think there would be a lot less disappointment if they were at least up for 24 hours or so.
The rubbish response I got:
Good Afternoon,
Thanks for contacting us regarding this query.
I can see that this Ashes of Faith pre-order was extremely popular and did sell out very quickly.
I'm very sorry to see that you received the email for the pre-order after this sold out. Unfortunately I believe that this was an automated email.
However I will certainly pass the feedback on regarding this.
Our Retail stores and local trade stores should be getting copies of this set on Release Day 27/05/2023.
If still no luck, then never fear the individual teams are slated for release SUMMER 2023
kodos wrote: the problem is the webstore, and the solution is to buy the stuff as stand alone release in summer
yeah, everything is fine
The Inquisition Kill Team may well be out later - no guarantee the campaign side of things will be.
By the economics of the whole situation, campaing stuff is mostly sourced from producers elsewhere and thus the least likely to be released separately. Things like the reusable stickers etc. is not something they do in-house afaik.
They’ve done this before in recent years; heck my Goff rocker only just arrived from an order last year!
Yes mine only turned up in April.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
kodos wrote: Of course they can, and they have done this in the past.
Yet as they don't do this any more we conclude that it was not worth it for them
(like Cursed City which a lot of shops still have in stock after a MTO like print run)
That is a good example as to why limited releases are a good idea, but it left stock on shelves for a different reason/ lots of people like me were all primed to buy. We didn't get a copy. We then got to play someone elses. And discovered it is a poor game and not worth it.
KT doesn't have that poor game problem, the game is already a known quantity. Doing a made to order would just be bringing in the cash, or at least confirm the books, upgrade sprues etc will be there separately.
in addition, KT is running on a season model, so any orders that take longer as the current season last have no benefit for GW
So why later part of season send out boxes to reviewers. That is at this point an additional wind up.
You assume GW can tell the difference between a good game and a bad game and that some of their games don't sell after the initial hype because they are just bad games
GW still thinks in terms of a model company and that you want their stuff because of the setting and models and not because you want to play a good game
They're behind on new releases? Stop insisting that you have to put them out every single week of the year.
Sure. Most stores want to sell constantly though. Why you think gw wants no sale weeks?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Boosykes wrote: Seems like somthing that should be illegal. Advertising things that you can't even buy? If stock runs out after 1min and it happens more than twice a year then this should be illegal. Make more or advertise in a much smaller area otherwise these are just psychological tactics to invoke a sense of scarcity and encourage FOMO. Wich should be illegal. The time when these big companys can get away with everything under the sun needs to end.
Sure. Goverment then just must provide companies repayment for unsold stock with interest(to factor in lost production time for items that would have sold).
Sure, there's a discount on the individual releases but it's not significant enough to get worked up about missing out on (especially as FLGS will be carrying the individual boxes anyway).
This would've been the only reasonable way to get the new Chaos Cultists since they're so overpriced on their own that when bought separately they cost as much as this box.
I'm actually not even that made about them selling out. I get global supply chains, lead times, forecasting, etc. I also know this was a crazy good deal of a box.
What makes me mad is... why make something that you know will sell out immediately such a good deal? If this had been $250 instead of $160, demand would drop, and only people that really want it would buy it.
Polonius wrote: I'm actually not even that made about them selling out. I get global supply chains, lead times, forecasting, etc. I also know this was a crazy good deal of a box.
What makes me mad is... why make something that you know will sell out immediately such a good deal? If this had been $250 instead of $160, demand would drop, and only people that really want it would buy it.
Ah yes, price increases, that's sure to make the customers happy.
Polonius wrote: I'm actually not even that made about them selling out. I get global supply chains, lead times, forecasting, etc. I also know this was a crazy good deal of a box.
What makes me mad is... why make something that you know will sell out immediately such a good deal? If this had been $250 instead of $160, demand would drop, and only people that really want it would buy it.
Ah yes, price increases, that's sure to make the customers happy.
*monkey paw finger curls.*
I mean, doesn't matter to me how much it cost as they don't have one to sell to me. Of course, those selling it on ebay would be getting less of that and GW more.
Polonius wrote: I'm actually not even that made about them selling out. I get global supply chains, lead times, forecasting, etc. I also know this was a crazy good deal of a box.
What makes me mad is... why make something that you know will sell out immediately such a good deal? If this had been $250 instead of $160, demand would drop, and only people that really want it would buy it.
Ah yes, price increases, that's sure to make the customers happy.
*monkey paw finger curls.*
I mean, doesn't matter to me how much it cost as they don't have one to sell to me. Of course, those selling it on ebay would be getting less of that and GW more.
They would still get it and would sell it at 400.. GW would still sell out since problem here is the quantity they are producing, which is tiny. I mean 1 minute and it's sold out? Thats quite revealing.
Not sure why would I want these to be more expensive than they already are though.
Polonius wrote: I'm actually not even that made about them selling out. I get global supply chains, lead times, forecasting, etc. I also know this was a crazy good deal of a box.
What makes me mad is... why make something that you know will sell out immediately such a good deal? If this had been $250 instead of $160, demand would drop, and only people that really want it would buy it.
Ah yes, price increases, that's sure to make the customers happy.
*monkey paw finger curls.*
I mean, doesn't matter to me how much it cost as they don't have one to sell to me. Of course, those selling it on ebay would be getting less of that and GW more.
They would still get it and would sell it at 400.. GW would still sell out since problem here is the quantity they are producing, which is tiny. I mean 1 minute and it's sold out? Thats quite revealing.
Not sure why would I want these to be more expensive than they already are though.
But at 400, a lot more people are just going to buy all the kits separately and wait for the Inquisition team to be released separately- it is no longer a good deal.
morganfreeman wrote: Gotta be honest, “GW should raise prices,” is a take I never thought I’d see.
That isn't really the suggestion.
What is being said is that GW shouldn't offer such (compared to their regular prices) hefty discounts on such limited boxes, because they mainly subsidise professional scalpers rather than providing a better deal to customers. This is assuming scalpers picked up a majority of the boxes, which we have no idea about.
If the regular prices were lower, this would be much less of an issue- it is all relative to the boxset savings vs the individual components. I doubt you will find many people advocating for increasing the basic kit prices who are not shareholders...
Polonius wrote: I'm actually not even that made about them selling out. I get global supply chains, lead times, forecasting, etc. I also know this was a crazy good deal of a box.
What makes me mad is... why make something that you know will sell out immediately such a good deal? If this had been $250 instead of $160, demand would drop, and only people that really want it would buy it.
Ah yes, price increases, that's sure to make the customers happy.
*monkey paw finger curls.*
I mean, doesn't matter to me how much it cost as they don't have one to sell to me. Of course, those selling it on ebay would be getting less of that and GW more.
They would still get it and would sell it at 400.. GW would still sell out since problem here is the quantity they are producing, which is tiny. I mean 1 minute and it's sold out? Thats quite revealing.
Not sure why would I want these to be more expensive than they already are though.
But at 400, a lot more people are just going to buy all the kits separately and wait for the Inquisition team to be released separately- it is no longer a good deal.
Thats assuming individual kits would not increase, which they surely would. Have you seen the individual releases bundle of minis of the sets for 40k and AoS (example Space Marines: Honoured of the Chapter).
morganfreeman wrote: Gotta be honest, “GW should raise prices,” is a take I never thought I’d see.
well, the point is that GW never discount anything, and the only real option for larger savings are the boxed bundles
yet because they are such a big saving they are attractive for re-seller of any kind, as even if you only want 1 part of the box you not only save money but can even make a profit by selling the other parts at 70% MSRP
hence increasing the prices of the bundles so that they are less attractive for re-sellers or those that only want 1 part of it makes it easier for those that want everything to get them
morganfreeman wrote: Gotta be honest, “GW should raise prices,” is a take I never thought I’d see.
That isn't really the suggestion.
What is being said is that GW shouldn't offer such (compared to their regular prices) hefty discounts on such limited boxes, because they mainly subsidise professional scalpers rather than providing a better deal to customers. This is assuming scalpers picked up a majority of the boxes, which we have no idea about.
If the regular prices were lower, this would be much less of an issue- it is all relative to the boxset savings vs the individual components. I doubt you will find many people advocating for increasing the basic kit prices who are not shareholders...
It’s a problem that GW may have to fix, I haven’t buy these kits separately (not including the new one.)
Since as a seperate product they are just so expensive.
And the bundles are expensive, but at least cut into those prices.
Polonius wrote: I'm actually not even that made about them selling out. I get global supply chains, lead times, forecasting, etc. I also know this was a crazy good deal of a box.
What makes me mad is... why make something that you know will sell out immediately such a good deal? If this had been $250 instead of $160, demand would drop, and only people that really want it would buy it.
Ah yes, price increases, that's sure to make the customers happy.
*monkey paw finger curls.*
I mean, doesn't matter to me how much it cost as they don't have one to sell to me. Of course, those selling it on ebay would be getting less of that and GW more.
They would still get it and would sell it at 400.. GW would still sell out since problem here is the quantity they are producing, which is tiny. I mean 1 minute and it's sold out? Thats quite revealing.
Not sure why would I want these to be more expensive than they already are though.
But at 400, a lot more people are just going to buy all the kits separately and wait for the Inquisition team to be released separately- it is no longer a good deal.
Thats assuming individual kits would not increase, which they surely would. Have you seen the individual releases bundle of minis of the sets for 40k and AoS (example Space Marines: Honoured of the Chapter).
Why? GW doesn't offer a set ratio of discount for their boxsets, the discount level varies wildly. The basic kit price will be based on what they think will be most profitable, increasing the profit margin on boxsets isn't going to change that.
morganfreeman wrote: Gotta be honest, “GW should raise prices,” is a take I never thought I’d see.
That isn't really the suggestion.
What is being said is that GW shouldn't offer such (compared to their regular prices) hefty discounts on such limited boxes, because they mainly subsidise professional scalpers rather than providing a better deal to customers. This is assuming scalpers picked up a majority of the boxes, which we have no idea about.
If the regular prices were lower, this would be much less of an issue- it is all relative to the boxset savings vs the individual components. I doubt you will find many people advocating for increasing the basic kit prices who are not shareholders...
It’s a problem that GW may have to fix, I haven’t buy these kits separately (not including the new one.)
Since as a seperate product they are just so expensive.
And the bundles are expensive, but at least cut into those prices.
Whilst they continue to show great profits every quarter, then I don't think GW will be fixing it- from their perspective it is working fine. Sadly.
Polonius wrote: I'm actually not even that made about them selling out. I get global supply chains, lead times, forecasting, etc. I also know this was a crazy good deal of a box.
What makes me mad is... why make something that you know will sell out immediately such a good deal? If this had been $250 instead of $160, demand would drop, and only people that really want it would buy it.
Ah yes, price increases, that's sure to make the customers happy.
*monkey paw finger curls.*
I mean, doesn't matter to me how much it cost as they don't have one to sell to me. Of course, those selling it on ebay would be getting less of that and GW more.
They would still get it and would sell it at 400.. GW would still sell out since problem here is the quantity they are producing, which is tiny. I mean 1 minute and it's sold out? Thats quite revealing.
Not sure why would I want these to be more expensive than they already are though.
But at 400, a lot more people are just going to buy all the kits separately and wait for the Inquisition team to be released separately- it is no longer a good deal.
Thats assuming individual kits would not increase, which they surely would. Have you seen the individual releases bundle of minis of the sets for 40k and AoS (example Space Marines: Honoured of the Chapter).
Why? GW doesn't offer a set ratio of discount for their boxsets, the discount level varies wildly. The basic kit price will be based on what they think will be most profitable, increasing the profit margin on boxsets isn't going to change that.
Varies wildly because this is GW testing how much they can push and besides pricing/value is artificial outside the GW bubble. Wha im saying they have tested and know very well the combat patrols, starters, box sets they keep on churning at "discount" is a way to give you the false impression on savings. Increase the price on those and the rest will follow.
In other news, my LGS only now got their batch of Gallowfall. When I picked mine up, I saw 3 other boxes sitting there, waiting to be collected by whoever had reserved them.
Some shops are only now getting their stock in, scavenge the local establishments and you might luck out
It is a weird time when I consider myself privileged to having lucked out on Gallowfall & Ashes boxes. GW is frustrating at times
morganfreeman wrote: Gotta be honest, “GW should raise prices,” is a take I never thought I’d see.
GW is a luxury good, right? Meaning nobody relies upon it for food, shelter, medicine, etc. A box like this is treat, even within hobby spending.
If GW has made a small, fixed amoutnt, and the market values it at $250 at that level of supply, yes, I would rather GW make that extra money rather than it flow into the scalpers, ebay, paypal, etc.
I've got no real moral beef with scalpers. they're people with the time and energy to try to make a few bucks off limited goods. Asking people to not grab easy money is like asking ants not to come to a picnic. No, my problem is with whoever is setting the price artificially low.
And yet we do take steps to minimize the impact that ants have upon our picnics, don't we?
The issue with this box is that we don't know if the campaign materials will go on sale as a separate item. If you look at the box contents, you'll see there are two books- one looks like the standard book that you would get in a box, but the other is a book of campaign rules that go with the stacks of cards.
Most of the models in this box are already available; the Inquisition sprue will be release as a separate KT, and I suspect the standard book may be released as well, but this might be the only place those campaign materials may be available.
And THAT means that the scalpers who limited the supply even further than GW's small production run by snapping up copies for an inflated resale have damaged the capacity for some players to participate in the campaign at all.
I think there is a chance the narrative book, stickers etc will get an individual release as well. All GW needs to do is make another print run of the material. In fact, offering the Narrative stuff separately makes a bunch of sense, as competitive players might want to play the Inq team due to their flexibility and "challenging nature", but they'd have zero interest in the Narrative material
CYRAC has posted a batrep with Inq + Vet Guard vs Chaos Cultists:
Just finished watching. Cultists are brutal! FNP 5+ is frightening.. But why wouldn't SoS sword operatives be a better option, so much melee goin on..?
morganfreeman wrote: Gotta be honest, “GW should raise prices,” is a take I never thought I’d see.
That isn't really the suggestion.
What is being said is that GW shouldn't offer such (compared to their regular prices) hefty discounts on such limited boxes, because they mainly subsidise professional scalpers rather than providing a better deal to customers. This is assuming scalpers picked up a majority of the boxes, which we have no idea about.
If the regular prices were lower, this would be much less of an issue- it is all relative to the boxset savings vs the individual components. I doubt you will find many people advocating for increasing the basic kit prices who are not shareholders...
8 000–10 000 boxes seems like a reasonable production estimate (say 3 per GW store is 1600 boxes, another 1600 for online since they do about as much in sales, trade is 2.26 times GWs own sales (assuming retailers pay 55 % of MSRP) so another 7250 (slightly more than 1 per "trade outlet", my FLGS got two so this isn't unreasonable), total about 10 500 boxes. This is about 10 % of average weekly revenue, which seems fairly reasonable.
How many have been available on eBay, a few hundred? While this is a large chunk of GW's online sales, I would assume the vast majority of sales go to actual consumers.
I've heard from fairly niche source - FLGS that has connections inside HQ and can ask questions in regards to logistics/production - that GW have a rather baffling system of producing in 5000 or 25000 at a time for nearly all kits and only breaking this numerical amount rarely, very rarely.
Even more baffling is certain kits are only ever produced in the 5000 quantity - Kasrkin is one such set - and is why they keep selling out as this amount is not even close to the global demand (or scalper demand).
Fairly certain Ashes of Faith wasn't produced in the 25k number otherwise FLGS's wouldn't have had such a tiny allocation, so it may well have only been 5k.
I say it is baffling, it is GW we are talking about, and they certainly have a supply problem currently, it's the theory that makes the most sense for me currently.
Could be a lie, would be a fairly boring lie if that were the case though.
It gives a little insight into some sort of 'Flipper financial coach' Discord where 'gurus' show people how to make a quick buck with scalping, not especially focused on Warhammer, but apparently these sorts of people now get increasingly aware of GW and their limited releases Includes a exchange of DMs with the leader of that group
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I've heard from fairly niche source - FLGS that has connections inside HQ and can ask questions in regards to logistics/production - that GW have a rather baffling system of producing in 5000 or 25000 at a time for nearly all kits and only breaking this numerical amount rarely, very rarely.
Even more baffling is certain kits are only ever produced in the 5000 quantity - Kasrkin is one such set - and is why they keep selling out as this amount is not even close to the global demand (or scalper demand).
Fairly certain Ashes of Faith wasn't produced in the 25k number otherwise FLGS's wouldn't have had such a tiny allocation, so it may well have only been 5k.
I say it is baffling, it is GW we are talking about, and they certainly have a supply problem currently, it's the theory that makes the most sense for me currently.
Could be a lie, would be a fairly boring lie if that were the case though.
According to the half-year report GW has 6300 independent "trade outlets", not including 1000+ chain outlets stocking "key recruitment products". I don't imagine every one of these would be getting a copy of Ashes of Faith, but if only 5000 were produced in total most would get zero.
How about instead of increasing the prices of an already relatively expensive hobby, they just produce enough to meet demand? If they don't have the production capabilities to meet that demand at the moment, either wait until they do (IE after Leviathan), or increase your production capabilities to do so.
Products from a company this big should not sell out within a single minute online. I'm not saying people should be able to pick up this box 6 months from now, but they should be able to go to a local game store on release day or a few days later and get one. This is especially bad as this isn't a one time thing, they are constantly having issues with Kill Team stock.
And this is coming from someone who was able to preorder a box (because my LGS takes preorders early).
tauist wrote:Some shops are only now getting their stock in, scavenge the local establishments and you might luck out
Absolutely. After going empty-handed in the preorder, I occasionally looked for offers online. Yesterday I was able to order a copy of Gallowfall (via Amazon, of all places) and just got the email that it has been shipped. It even came with a 10% discount. Fingers crossed!
Polonius wrote:No, my problem is with whoever is setting the price artificially low.
That is a strange take. The issue is not the prices being too low (they are not low at all for what is in the box). My problem is with whatever is responsible for the supply not even remotely meeting demand. There’d be more money in it for GW too if they could sell larger volumes.
If the discount was not so much, the demand would not be as fierce.
More reasonable discounts in these boxes, and the scalpers would not have the returns they need to make it such a problem for us.
Skinnereal wrote: If the discount was not so much, the demand would not be as fierce.
More reasonable discounts in these boxes, and the scalpers would not have the returns they need to make it such a problem for us.
Another one? Being unhappy that GW's prices are too low seems to be contagious.
Consider that the problem is the absurd base price GW asks for some trashy cultists. Ashes of Faith is a pretty normal number of models for a pretty normal GW price, very much comparable to other such boxes. It's not the Kill Team box that makes the discount look so good.
Skinnereal wrote: If the discount was not so much, the demand would not be as fierce.
More reasonable discounts in these boxes, and the scalpers would not have the returns they need to make it such a problem for us.
If the price tag was higher, there still wouldn’t be more boxes around and we‘d be just as unhappy. Maybe even more so, because on average we would have paid more for exactly the same contents.
kodos wrote: If the prices of discount boxes are higher than it is less attractive for reseller and there will be more boxes available for MSRP
That seems logical, but I have a suspicion that would not ever be the case. It would simply mean even higher prices on the secondary market, not an increase of availability at GW. The artificial scarcity is the driving issue, IMO.
kodos wrote: If the prices of discount boxes are higher than it is less attractive for reseller and there will be more boxes available for MSRP
That seems logical, but I have a suspicion that would not ever be the case. It would simply mean even higher prices on the secondary market, not an increase of availability at GW. The artificial scarcity is the driving issue, IMO.
I think this should map onto a supply-demand curve though. The price will modulate the demand. For example, if the box was £1000, very few people would buy it as the only reason is early access to the Inquisition team and/or campaign rules. If it matched the price of the individual components combined, then more people would buy it (for early access), but it would almost certainly not sell out in minutes because some folks would be priced out and others would opt to wait to get just the bits they wanted. The cheaper it gets, the higher the demand.
kodos wrote: If the prices of discount boxes are higher than it is less attractive for reseller and there will be more boxes available for MSRP
That seems logical, but I have a suspicion that would not ever be the case. It would simply mean even higher prices on the secondary market, not an increase of availability at GW. The artificial scarcity is the driving issue, IMO.
The thing is, I'd say the majority of the secondary market is based on the cost of the individual items added together. It's not the total price but rather the price compared to buying the items separately that is the issue. If the reseller can make their money back off half the contents it becomes a much less risky proposition to get as many as possible to resell, whereas if they had to sell 80% if the box to make their money back it becomes a more risky proposition, especially as the boxes usually contain a couple 'chaff' units added in to pad the value, the Storm Troopers and SoS in this box for instance.
Like with the boxes were only two 30€ heroes are the only one guaranteed to sell in a 200€ box, buying 10 is not worth doing as the chance or a loss high
If there are 2 units inside that alone are going for 200€, you are even making profit by selling everything else for 40% msrp
A bundle box being just 30% discount rather than 50% there will be more boxes for those that really want the content
That GW is overpriced and not worth to buy at 30% discount is a different problem not relsted to those boxes
Skinnereal wrote: If the discount was not so much, the demand would not be as fierce.
More reasonable discounts in these boxes, and the scalpers would not have the returns they need to make it such a problem for us.
Another one? Being unhappy that GW's prices are too low seems to be contagious.
Consider that the problem is the absurd base price GW asks for some trashy cultists. Ashes of Faith is a pretty normal number of models for a pretty normal GW price, very much comparable to other such boxes. It's not the Kill Team box that makes the discount look so good.
It's not that the prices are too low (no-one is saying that), but when a discounted box appears and people compare to the usual high prices of the contents, the usual price-gouging shows through more and people rush for the chance to save.
Ashes of Faith is not a normal box though, The rules and game in it are not available elsewhere, but the Gallowfall sets and others are.
Skinnereal wrote: If the discount was not so much, the demand would not be as fierce.
More reasonable discounts in these boxes, and the scalpers would not have the returns they need to make it such a problem for us.
If the price tag was higher, there still wouldn’t be more boxes around and we‘d be just as unhappy. Maybe even more so, because on average we would have paid more for exactly the same contents.
You missed my point. Scalping wouldn't happen if the price difference was not so great.
Yes, we'd pay more, but more of us would get it at the MSRP, still lower than the individual kits.
It is the huge discount that makes these attractive to scalpers. Less discount = less scalping, and more on the shelf at a still-discounted price.
The stores in my local area had no more than one box in today, including the big inner-city store.
My partner managed to pick one up at a different store to the one I tried, which had someone who had been waiting from 08:30 (I was there 40 minutes before opening). They all open at 10:00 round here.
Just missed out on grabbing a "cheap" autosavant on ebay by seconds, so I'm a bit miffed. Its the only model I really want from that set (though the servitor is very nice too)
I don't suppose I'll get the chance again until the kill-team is released separately.
Well, Gallowfall individual accessory sprues seem to be selling at £20 just for one. And you get two in the box.
That would make a nice bit back on them if you didn’t want those bits. And had managed to get a box of course
Should have my Ashes box within the week, excited to start the Campaign!
I need to get me some Daemon models, was thinking we could spice up the Narrative by mixing up the chaos side in the campaign, alternating the chaos team between Cultists, Blooded, Fellgor Ravagers and Daemons. Make some house rule table D6 to see who the inq team is playing the next mission against, something like:
1-3 Cultists
4 Blooded
5 Fellgor Ravagers
6 Daemons
Except for the "Ritual" mission, that one would always be played against the Cultists. Something like that.. Yeah, after revisiting the Compendium, I most definitely want to include a Tzeentch Daemons team of pink & blue horrors LOL Sounds like a PITA team to play against, especially if I blow all my CP on splitting horrors
Already secured that Valkyrie, just need to build it. It will get used as obscuring terrain in the Inq team's DZ on some missions, and functions as the Inq team's Base of Ops for the whole Narrative Campaign.
Really like how Ashes style campaign can make use of most of my KT21 stuff. The game needs more Narrative boxes like this
Danny76 wrote: Well, Gallowfall individual accessory sprues seem to be selling at £20 just for one. And you get two in the box.
And when GW releases them - if they release them - they'll be AUD$60 per sprue, so I'll take my chances on eBay.
Thanks for the reminder though. I hadn't even thought to look. Now I have 4 on the way.
I suppose it’s slightly more understandable than the Kill Teams. Going for £45-£65 and we know they’ll be less than that even from GW when they come..
They just can’t wait..
Yeah... I wouldn't buy any of the individual Kill Teams on eBay. That way lies madness (and a lot less money!).
And again, thanks for the reminder. I went and searched for every version of those sprues I could find, compared about 8 of them, and found the best price. It's a bit more expensive than the price GW will eventually sell them (if they do sell them) but the place was also selling no-box on-sprue Scarab Occult Terminators for half the price there are in Oz, and I needed 5 more to complete my 1KSons, so it all works out.
kodos wrote: But that is the point, you never know if they are less from GW or if they get a price increase and with the stand alone release
Quite right. I sold my Breachers for USD $50 + shipping. GW now sells them for $60. And one must recall that 14-15% of the sale price goes to eBay, not the seller.
I've been thinking about the latest CURAC batrep, and I think Vet Guard are not the best ancillary to take against the Cult. Also, his Agent operative selection had only one decent melee operative. I think you almost always want to take a mix of melee and long range shooting operatives against the Cult, and use shooting early in the game, switching to melee during the later turning points.
You'd want melee operatives with as much damage output as possible against mutants and torments, since they are so good with it, realistically you can hope to score 1 or two hits against a mutant before they kill you, so you need to have power in those few hits. Doubly so because of the 5+ FNP
Maybe CURAC's issue was that he tried to build both his Agents and his ancillaries as two separate teams, rather than one synergistic whole? If you take a shooty Vet Guard ancillary, then perhaps you need to take a melee focused Agents half.. Or with a shooty Agents half, you want to be spamming SoS executioner blade ops as ancillary..
So I got my hands on an Ashes of Faith box. I have a question for anyone else who got one.
Are there.. not the correct base sizes in it for the miniatures?
The construction booklet references x9 32MM bases and x2 28MM bases. However between the Dark Commune (a 5 man 'unit') and the SoS (another 5 man "unit) that's x10 32MM bases, and then the servitor is also supposed to be on a 32 MM base (per the booklet) meaning that the box is actually two short? And in addition to that, leafing through the booklet, I cannot find a single miniature it says is supposed to be on a 28MM base.
morganfreeman wrote: So I got my hands on an Ashes of Faith box. I have a question for anyone else who got one.
Are there.. not the correct base sizes in it for the miniatures?
The construction booklet references x9 32MM bases and x2 28MM bases. However between the Dark Commune (a 5 man 'unit') and the SoS (another 5 man "unit) that's x10 32MM bases, and then the servitor is also supposed to be on a 32 MM base (per the booklet) meaning that the box is actually two short? And in addition to that, leafing through the booklet, I cannot find a single miniature it says is supposed to be on a 28MM base.
Am I daft? Did I miss something here?
Yes, you are missing something: the Dark Commune is actually coming with mixed base sizes, the two 'bodyguard' minis go on 28mm bases:
The models come on 32 mm bases, except for the Blessed Blades, which go on the rather new 28 mm bases, and like the Cultists, these are monopose models on a single medium-size sprue. There are no build options or optional parts, which is acceptable for an HQ choice, but a selection of heads or standards for personalization would have been welcome.
Yeah, this was discussed about in Reddit also, it's a typo/omission in the build instructions.
Got my Ashes box yesterday, the amount of cardboard stuff was a surprise. Still dont get why the book content got split up in two separate books, that stuff could have easily been combined into one, neither of the books is very thick, thinner than an average KT21 campaign book in any case. The book with the team rules has no missions, which is a bummer
Unsure what I'll do with the Cults and Inq, both teams would be ideal candidates for kitbashing/conversions. But desire to start playing the Campaign ASAP is strong, suppose I can just play with blutac'd models to start with
tauist wrote: Yeah, this was discussed about in Reddit also, it's a typo/omission in the build instructions.
Got my Ashes box yesterday, the amount of cardboard stuff was a surprise. Still dont get why the book content got split up in two separate books, that stuff could have easily been combined into one, neither of the books is very thick, thinner than an average KT21 campaign book in any case. The book with the team rules has no missions, which is a bummer
Unsure what I'll do with the Cults and Inq, both teams would be ideal candidates for kitbashing/conversions. But desire to start playing the Campaign ASAP is strong, suppose I can just play with blutac'd models to start with
They'll publish the 'factions' book on its own like the other books, and the campaig stuff wouldn't fit there without the extra stickers and such.
Myself, all those extra cultists are an excuse to make two Inquisition teams, one puritan and one radical. Daemonhost for icon bearer...
The only interesting bits in the kit for kitbash is the shotgun arm because it has left hand on the trigger and pointing right, which is extremely rare for 2 handed guns made by GW.
Chopstick wrote: The only interesting bits in the kit for kitbash is the shotgun arm because it has left hand on the trigger and pointing right, which is extremely rare for 2 handed guns made by GW.
The plastic Inquisition icon - and the Inquisition shoulder pads! - are quite nice as well. A shame that the heads aren't too interesting.
kitbashing a non available set is just kind pointless. I think it would be better to kitbash sets that are currently available.
I don't even bother watching KT reviews anymore, there isn't much of a point when the product isn't available. I know it isn't the influencers fault that they are not available but part of it just feels like rubbing salt in an open wound to me. I guess I am just not that masocistic.
Ancient Otter wrote: I was trying to remember last night, there wasn't any SM Kill Teams released, was there?
I know there was rules in the Compendium and the Intercessors in the Lite rules, but no teams released in the sets.
Part of me was thinking were they holding off until 10th 40K hit, then follow up with Kill Team for new Space Marine teams.
There are rumours for a boxed set with Scouts vs. Eldar, and for some sort of KillTeam-cum-Space Hulk set that involves new Termies and supposedly new Genestealers.
Geifer wrote: Marines had a Kill Team of Inwhatevers (the ones with the Apothecary upgrade) plus upgrade sprue against Traitor Guard in the Moroch box.
And the random box SM heros product is now also a Killteam.
There are rumours for a boxed set with Scouts vs. Eldar, and for some sort of KillTeam-cum-Space Hulk set that involves new Termies and supposedly new Genestealers.
Would make sense to hold off the Termies v Genestealers till after 10K launched with the new Termies.
Geifer wrote:Marines had a Kill Team of Inwhatevers (the ones with the Apothecary upgrade) plus upgrade sprue against Traitor Guard in the Moroch box.
Completely forgot about those!
Tsagualsa wrote:
Geifer wrote: Marines had a Kill Team of Inwhatevers (the ones with the Apothecary upgrade) plus upgrade sprue against Traitor Guard in the Moroch box.
And the random box SM heros product is now also a Killteam.
There are rumours for a boxed set with Scouts vs. Eldar, and for some sort of KillTeam-cum-Space Hulk set that involves new Termies and supposedly new Genestealers.
Would make sense to hold off the Termies v Genestealers till after 10K launched with the new Termies.
They could use it as a release slot for both a proper multi-part Terminator kit and updated Genestealers without eating into the kit budget for the codex releases.
There are rumours for a boxed set with Scouts vs. Eldar, and for some sort of KillTeam-cum-Space Hulk set that involves new Termies and supposedly new Genestealers.
Would make sense to hold off the Termies v Genestealers till after 10K launched with the new Termies.
They could use it as a release slot for both a proper multi-part Terminator kit and updated Genestealers without eating into the kit budget for the codex releases.
Yes, that's the reasoning behind it as far as the rumourmongers see it. Also, Space Hulk and the classic GS vs Terminators pairing remains one of the most popular staples of the setting, and has made huge sales every time it was released. I personally suspect that it might be the next 'narrative expansion' box (i.e. like Ashes of Faith) that has not-Space-Hulk rules as the campaigny bit, outside of the regular season order.
Old-Four-Arms wrote: IMO, the nature of Tyranids (specialist organisms for specific tasks) is not very compatible with KT, unless they go mixed organisms.
I cannot imagine a Stealer-only Kill Team with the various specialist roles.
I do hope that Genestealers get an updated sculpt (a reimagining of the classic look would be brilliant).
A killteam could also work well with (canonically shape-shifting) Ymgarl stealers.
Old-Four-Arms wrote: IMO, the nature of Tyranids (specialist organisms for specific tasks) is not very compatible with KT, unless they go mixed organisms.
I cannot imagine a Stealer-only Kill Team with the various specialist roles.
I do hope that Genestealers get an updated sculpt (a reimagining of the classic look would be brilliant).
Could do 10 man GS Cultists with upgrades and 5 model sprue of Purestrains.
Olthannon wrote: Has there been any info on when the Votann box is released seperately?
No definitive timeline, just that they and the Beastmen would be out over this summer.
Valrak at some point mentioned a Votann wave in September, which is now at least doubtful because they're not on the Codex roadmap for the next year or so, but that might be the box release, somehow. He also mentioned there was much more stuff for Beastmen ('lots of love' was the turn of phrase iirc), god knows where that would fit in.
My impression is that Kill Team has come to be a game that tap in to the expanded universe that you cant really make an army for, but people still want to see represented in models. It would be sad if they went the compleat opposite direction and made a genestealer/terminator box as a forced push for uppdating 40k units. Not to mention the total disrespect for the spirit of the game to have specialists and diverse agents instead of mono-equipped units.
Edit: same thing with the rumor of striking scorpions: they simply cant be organized in a flexible kill team without doing some serious violations of traditional eldar lore. It would be very sad indeed if they had to ruin the aspect concept, as well as locking new scorps in a KT box. Makes no sense.
KT Space Hulk sounds like a nice idea on paper but the mechanics of both systems are very different. SH has massively simplified board game mechanics with action points. And they must know that is where a lot of the appeal lies.
I expect with new Terminator sculpts we will get a new edition of Space Hulk but I doubt it will have any KT branding.
deano2099 wrote: KT Space Hulk sounds like a nice idea on paper but the mechanics of both systems are very different. SH has massively simplified board game mechanics with action points. And they must know that is where a lot of the appeal lies.
I expect with new Terminator sculpts we will get a new edition of Space Hulk but I doubt it will have any KT branding.
SH already has absurdly large board layouts, with the embiggening of Terminators probably leading to bigger squares I shudder to think how big the boards will be. Or maybe they rewrite it after all these years.
deano2099 wrote: KT Space Hulk sounds like a nice idea on paper but the mechanics of both systems are very different. SH has massively simplified board game mechanics with action points. And they must know that is where a lot of the appeal lies.
I expect with new Terminator sculpts we will get a new edition of Space Hulk but I doubt it will have any KT branding.
SH already has absurdly large board layouts, with the embiggening of Terminators probably leading to bigger squares I shudder to think how big the boards will be. Or maybe they rewrite it after all these years.
Space Hulk has always used quite small tiles (between 25mm - 30mm IIRC), the new models would need custom bases like in the previous edition of Space Hulk.
I don't think we will see a Space Hulk themed KillTeam. Might be interesting to see a modern version of Hulk which uses the Boarding Actions terrain though?
tauist wrote: Space Hulk has always used quite small tiles (between 25mm - 30mm IIRC), the new models would need custom bases like in the previous edition of Space Hulk.
I don't think we will see a Space Hulk themed KillTeam. Might be interesting to see a modern version of Hulk which uses the Boarding Actions terrain though?
Could be a sort of campaign box that has rules for space hulk using boarding action terrain, but no actual terrain included
tauist wrote: Space Hulk has always used quite small tiles (between 25mm - 30mm IIRC), the new models would need custom bases like in the previous edition of Space Hulk.
...or simply terrain based on a larger tile/base size.
Quite a few sets of fan-designed terrain sets have gone this route.
tauist wrote: Space Hulk has always used quite small tiles (between 25mm - 30mm IIRC), the new models would need custom bases like in the previous edition of Space Hulk.
...or simply terrain based on a larger tile/base size.
Quite a few sets of fan-designed terrain sets have gone this route.
I think that's the point AllSeeingSkink is making ; if you take some of the bigger 1st edition missions (Hammer & Anvil frex), you're looking at a layout/board that is 44 tiles long and 28 wide.
The 4th Ed. Space Hulk sculpts are very nice, but I am not a fan of the basing/poses ; in a game where facing is a factor, one should clearly see which is the front arc, etc.
Personally I would rather have GW release a new box of SH, all sized up and with lots of plastic terrain and not have a new KT box until Autumn in return.
I wouldn't buy it, but looking at the last box, the influx of models for players was really nice and the Stealers/Broodlord could use an update.
But first and foremost, keep the elite/leader models out of Kill Team. Their addition to the previous incarnation was terrible and started the cycle of power creep. Current KT is surprisingly balanced even 2 years in and honestly does not work at all with super elite teams or bland teams. AC just barely works, because you can take SoS, but is still not very liked because they are boring to play and frustrating to play against. And the Nid Team only works because you can take 2 fire squads and I doubt many people will take 2xStealers. They are very boring to play because all you do is charge on mass. KT has managed to be a lot more tactical than 40K and I hope it stays like that.
GiToRaZor wrote: Personally I would rather have GW release a new box of SH, all sized up and with lots of plastic terrain and not have a new KT box until Autumn in return.
Note that there will in fact not be a Kill Team box until fall, as per the roadmap from Warhammer Fest (spoilered for size):
Tsagualsa wrote:
Valrak at some point mentioned a Votann wave in September, which is now at least doubtful because they're not on the Codex roadmap for the next year or so, but that might be the box release, somehow. He also mentioned there was much more stuff for Beastmen ('lots of love' was the turn of phrase iirc), god knows where that would fit in.
I might wrong but wasn't the Votann for September rumour not one of his but just him commenting on a list of rumours that had been posted about 10th [which has since been disproved] ?
Fayric wrote:My impression is that Kill Team has come to be a game that tap in to the expanded universe that you cant really make an army for, but people still want to see represented in models. It would be sad if they went the compleat opposite direction and made a genestealer/terminator box as a forced push for uppdating 40k units. Not to mention the total disrespect for the spirit of the game to have specialists and diverse agents instead of mono-equipped units.
Edit: same thing with the rumor of striking scorpions: they simply cant be organized in a flexible kill team without doing some serious violations of traditional eldar lore. It would be very sad indeed if they had to ruin the aspect concept, as well as locking new scorps in a KT box. Makes no sense.
For Nids I'd love to see them do a proper killteam with biomorphs/rare strains to give the unit more variety while exploring how weird and interesting Nids can get. Creatures can be literally designed for a specific role by the hive mind that perhaps would be seen/influence a 40k level engagement.
I get what you are saying with Scorpions as well but they could deepen the lore around the shrines by having scorpion themed specialists to give variety while showing the more esoteric side of the Aspects. Its always been implied that the shrines are not homogeneous its just what we seat the 40k level.Tricky to do well but could add a lot of granular depth to long established factions, obviously theregualr squad would stay more or less the same for the 40k version.
GiToRaZor wrote:Personally I would rather have GW release a new box of SH, all sized up and with lots of plastic terrain and not have a new KT box until Autumn in return.
I wouldn't buy it, but looking at the last box, the influx of models for players was really nice and the Stealers/Broodlord could use an update.
And the Nid Team only works because you can take 2 fire squads and I doubt many people will take 2xStealers. They are very boring to play because all you do is charge on mass. KT has managed to be a lot more tactical than 40K and I hope it stays like that.
I did read at the time that they had designed a plastic set of tiles/terrain for the last edition of Spacehulk but scrapped it due to cost.
Again my above wish for a proper Nid Killteam with biomorph adaptations to add specialists I think is needed to make Nids more interesting. I've seen some cracking conversions for it like The Modern Synthesist's warrior and gaunt killteam and Hive Fleet Moloch's original Killteam conversions- he had a psycher/lictor beast, a sniper critter etc.. Plus the way they have introduced new strains in Leviathan I think opens a lot of options model wise..
deano2099 wrote: KT Space Hulk sounds like a nice idea on paper but the mechanics of both systems are very different. SH has massively simplified board game mechanics with action points. And they must know that is where a lot of the appeal lies.
I expect with new Terminator sculpts we will get a new edition of Space Hulk but I doubt it will have any KT branding.
SH already has absurdly large board layouts, with the embiggening of Terminators probably leading to bigger squares I shudder to think how big the boards will be. Or maybe they rewrite it after all these years.
Terminators are still on 40mm bases IIRC
Space Hulk tiles are 30mm squares.
I used 28mm bases for my Terminators rather than the 40's and for the old Terminators that was fine. 32mm bases kind of work but the models need to be staggered if you have a bunch of them in a line.
The new models don't look like they'd fit on 28mm bases or possibly not even 32mm bases.
tauist wrote: Space Hulk has always used quite small tiles (between 25mm - 30mm IIRC), the new models would need custom bases like in the previous edition of Space Hulk.
...or simply terrain based on a larger tile/base size.
Quite a few sets of fan-designed terrain sets have gone this route.
I think that's the point AllSeeingSkink is making ; if you take some of the bigger 1st edition missions (Hammer & Anvil frex), you're looking at a layout/board that is 44 tiles long and 28 wide.
Yeah exactly, SH feels like a game you should be able to set up and play in a relatively small area, but actually you need a decent sized table. Increasing the square size another 10mm up from 30mm would mean you probably need a full sized gaming table for it if not more.
The 4th Ed. Space Hulk sculpts are very nice, but I am not a fan of the basing/poses ; in a game where facing is a factor, one should clearly see which is the front arc, etc.
I agree, they're nice models for a diorama, but as gaming pieces they were a bit annoying. Also it seemed a bit un-Terminator-like that they all had such dynamic poses. Even the basic old Terminators I thought were too dynamic. For the new Terminators GW has made them more statuesque, which I think is half of what I like about them.
I think the genestealers vs terminators rumours are just based around the Gallowdark season of Kill team coming out alongside the rumours of new terminators.
With Terminators in the Leviathan box I don't think they would be such an instant sell out in a Kill team box.
I think the interesting thing will be whether a new lictor kit comes out in the Leviathan reinforcement sets, as if not then we could see a kill team kit there
Tastyfish wrote: I think the genestealers vs terminators rumours are just based around the Gallowdark season of Kill team coming out alongside the rumours of new terminators.
With Terminators in the Leviathan box I don't think they would be such an instant sell out in a Kill team box.
I dunno. Those models are mono pose and are currently locked in a $250 box that has sold out
A multi pose terminator kit with things like storm shields, lightning claws, or upgrades like apothecaries would probably do very well. Especially if the other team also has cool models
Tastyfish wrote: I think the genestealers vs terminators rumours are just based around the Gallowdark season of Kill team coming out alongside the rumours of new terminators.
With Terminators in the Leviathan box I don't think they would be such an instant sell out in a Kill team box.
I dunno. Those models are mono pose and are currently locked in a $250 box that has sold out
A multi pose terminator kit with things like storm shields, lightning claws, or upgrades like apothecaries would probably do very well. Especially if the other team also has cool models
Also we had something similar with Kill Team Pariah Nexus in 9th where the models where all completely new and obviously part of the starter faction waves but where part of a kill team box before going to general release so it seems believable that they would do something similar with multipart Terminators and new genestealers
Also we had something similar with Kill Team Pariah Nexus in 9th where the models where all completely new and obviously part of the starter faction waves but where part of a kill team box before going to general release so it seems believable that they would do something similar with multipart Terminators and new genestealers
Could also just be a new 40k battle box, like the Incubi vs. Howling Banshees set from a few years back.
I can see a new Tyranid Killteam (or two) coming in the next Season, would fit right in with the Jungle World theme of S3
But Terminators vs Genestealers? Nope, not seeing it. KT21 isn't 40K lite anymore, it's more like Xcom now, a game of specialist operatives duking it out
tauist wrote: I can see a new Tyranid Killteam (or two) coming in the next Season, would fit right in with the Jungle World theme of S3
But Terminators vs Genestealers? Nope, not seeing it. KT21 isn't 40K lite anymore, it's more like Xcom now, a game of specialist operatives duking it out
Eh. KT is one of those things that is what it is right up until GW changes its mind and it becomes something completely different.
Tastyfish wrote: I think the genestealers vs terminators rumours are just based around the Gallowdark season of Kill team coming out alongside the rumours of new terminators.
With Terminators in the Leviathan box I don't think they would be such an instant sell out in a Kill team box.
I dunno. Those models are mono pose and are currently locked in a $250 box that has sold out
A multi pose terminator kit with things like storm shields, lightning claws, or upgrades like apothecaries would probably do very well. Especially if the other team also has cool models
Also we had something similar with Kill Team Pariah Nexus in 9th where the models where all completely new and obviously part of the starter faction waves but where part of a kill team box before going to general release so it seems believable that they would do something similar with multipart Terminators and new genestealers
It's too soon. First Kill team box of the new season is going to be september-ish but we know the codex waves for Tyranids and Marines is coming out shortly after 12th July and that there is potentially £1000 worth of new kits for both sides.
I think we'll see a proper release of the terminators and sternguard then.
True, they're just previewed in the wrap up to Oghram. Still, next box has Eldar in it from the last preview so any Terminator/Genestealer one would be pushing those units into 2024.
Voss wrote: Tyranid and Marine codexes are autumn, not July.
Autumn, or Q3? July is on one of those.
I'll look for the announcement to see what they said.
See below
We also know that the 'Special Preview' that the community can unlock via the Battle of Oghram campaign will be decided on July 9th, which logically is the earliest day they can start to preview either of these codexes. Add, say, a week of 'special' previews, a week or two with normal previews, another one because Space Marines are special, and a preorder week and you're mid-August without even trying.
tauist wrote: I can see a new Tyranid Killteam (or two) coming in the next Season, would fit right in with the Jungle World theme of S3
But Terminators vs Genestealers? Nope, not seeing it. KT21 isn't 40K lite anymore, it's more like Xcom now, a game of specialist operatives duking it out
Eh. KT is one of those things that is what it is right up until GW changes its mind and it becomes something completely different.
This has not been my experience playing KT21 in the slightest. We must be playing a different game? Even in Ashes Of Faith, the missions played out during the campaign are played like Octarius missions for the most part, there's just some extra buffs introduced during the narrative Campaign. You can in fact play Ashes Of Faith even with Vet Guard vs Kommandos from KT21 Launch box, if you so wish,
A new KillTeam, "Cult Of The Unshackled" is introduced in the latest White Dwarf, accompanied by a three player Narrative Mission called "Seize The Prisoner". Cult Of The Unshackled team consists of 1 Prisoner Psyker and 10 Thralls. Interestingly, the rules suggest using any spare models for the team, which presents fun new conversion/kitbash opportunities.
I could see myself adding Cult Of The Unshackled to my Ashes of Faith Campaign, for even more variety..
In other news, the TeamMate iOS app received a new update and now includes rules for all the currently released KillTeams (minus Cult Of The Unshackled), including Inq & Chaos Cult
Voss wrote: Tyranid and Marine codexes are autumn, not July.
Autumn, or Q3? July is on one of those.
I'll look for the announcement to see what they said.
See below
I mean if Midsummer's day is the middle of Summer (because of couse it should be), then Autumn starts around the 9th of August, which would be around 4 weeks after the results of the campaign.
That feels like the right kind of distance to introduce the new codex...
Tastyfish wrote: True, they're just previewed in the wrap up to Oghram. Still, next box has Eldar in it from the last preview so any Terminator/Genestealer one would be pushing those units into 2024.
Personally, I think the Aeldari bit is being overblown for the first box.
Remember that the teaser was careful to emphasize that it was for the next season. WarCry has been giving us faction symbols for the past few seasons, this might be something to look forward to for KT.
Voss wrote: Tyranid and Marine codexes are autumn, not July.
Autumn, or Q3? July is on one of those.
I'll look for the announcement to see what they said.
See below
I mean if Midsummer's day is the middle of Summer (because of couse it should be), then Autumn starts around the 9th of August, which would be around 4 weeks after the results of the campaign.
That feels like the right kind of distance to introduce the new codex...
In UK parlance, Autumn starts either on the 1st of September or the 23rd of September.
Autumn, in the northern hemisphere, is technically September 22 to December 21, but is typically considered to be September to November in less formal tracking.
Voss wrote: Tyranid and Marine codexes are autumn, not July.
Autumn, or Q3? July is on one of those.
I'll look for the announcement to see what they said.
See below
I mean if Midsummer's day is the middle of Summer (because of couse it should be), then Autumn starts around the 9th of August, which would be around 4 weeks after the results of the campaign.
That feels like the right kind of distance to introduce the new codex...
In UK parlance, Autumn starts either on the 1st of September or the 23rd of September.
No offense, but could we please stop it already with that meteorologist season bs? It only serves to confuse people. GW aren't meteorologists. They use seasons the same way normal people do, solstice to equinox or equinox to solstice, depending on the time of year.
Voss wrote: Tyranid and Marine codexes are autumn, not July.
Autumn, or Q3? July is on one of those.
I'll look for the announcement to see what they said.
See below
I mean if Midsummer's day is the middle of Summer (because of couse it should be), then Autumn starts around the 9th of August, which would be around 4 weeks after the results of the campaign.
That feels like the right kind of distance to introduce the new codex...
In UK parlance, Autumn starts either on the 1st of September or the 23rd of September.
No offense, but could we please stop it already with that meteorologist season bs? It only serves to confuse people. GW aren't meteorologists. They use seasons the same way normal people do, solstice to equinox or equinox to solstice, depending on the time of year.
GW are crazy britishers, it's probably something like 'From Michaelmas to Boxing Day' for them
Voss wrote: Tyranid and Marine codexes are autumn, not July.
Autumn, or Q3? July is on one of those.
I'll look for the announcement to see what they said.
See below
I mean if Midsummer's day is the middle of Summer (because of couse it should be), then Autumn starts around the 9th of August, which would be around 4 weeks after the results of the campaign.
That feels like the right kind of distance to introduce the new codex...
In UK parlance, Autumn starts either on the 1st of September or the 23rd of September.
No offense, but could we please stop it already with that meteorologist season bs? It only serves to confuse people. GW aren't meteorologists. They use seasons the same way normal people do, solstice to equinox or equinox to solstice, depending on the time of year.
I've never heard of Equinox to Solstice (or vice versa) used for seasons outside of religious or scientific settings. If you say Autumn to most people in the UK they will understand you mean September 1st to November 30th. Most people don't even know when the equinox/solstices are so the year is divided into four equal three month chunks.
Tallonian4th wrote: If you say Autumn to most people in the UK they will understand you mean September 1st to November 30th. Most people don't even know when the equinox/solstices are so the year is divided into four equal three month chunks.
That's it precisely. Winter begins when you eat your first Advent calendar chocolate, and ends on that weird leap year day. Easy to remember!
Eh, I think both the colloquial seasons (1st of the relevant months) and official seasons (solstice/equinox, so 21st or 22nd of the relevant months) are well known in the UK. Things like BBC news often use the latter.
Although people also talk based on feeling- a cold November is an early winter for example.
Haighus wrote: Eh, I think both the colloquial seasons (1st of the relevant months) and official seasons (solstice/equinox, so 21st or 22nd of the relevant months) are well known in the UK. Things like BBC news often use the latter.
Although people also talk based on feeling- a cold November is an early winter for example.
Somewhat going back to the start of this particular discussion, i don't think that GW and their release calendar give a rat's ass about any sort of coherent and consistent definition of any season, and just slot stuff into vague suggestions - late August can be 'Autumn' for them as easily as mid-November if they want it to be. That vagueness is the reason why they don't announce it by stating months or quarters or whatever else they could use, they want that ambiguity and wiggle room.
Voss wrote: Tyranid and Marine codexes are autumn, not July.
Autumn, or Q3? July is on one of those.
I'll look for the announcement to see what they said.
See below
I mean if Midsummer's day is the middle of Summer (because of couse it should be), then Autumn starts around the 9th of August, which would be around 4 weeks after the results of the campaign.
That feels like the right kind of distance to introduce the new codex...
In UK parlance, Autumn starts either on the 1st of September or the 23rd of September.
No offense, but could we please stop it already with that meteorologist season bs? It only serves to confuse people. GW aren't meteorologists. They use seasons the same way normal people do, solstice to equinox or equinox to solstice, depending on the time of year.
I've never heard of Equinox to Solstice (or vice versa) used for seasons outside of religious or scientific settings. If you say Autumn to most people in the UK they will understand you mean September 1st to November 30th. Most people don't even know when the equinox/solstices are so the year is divided into four equal three month chunks.
You're right, overwhelmingly people refer to the start of a season by date (21st of June and December, around the 22nd of September and March). It's effectively the same thing.
The point though was that, and this is going to sound more dramatic than I actually feel about it, I take exception to the idea that I have seen propagated in the recent past that GW's announcements or roadmaps cannot be trusted because it is not known what kind of system they use. Or, as the previous post posits, that they are willfully inconsistent. This has historically not been the case and any such claim only spreads misinformation and causes confusion. That's unhelpful and unnecessary.
GW does more than enough dumb stuff for which we can (and should, in my opinion) criticize them. Inventing additional issues does not agree with me.
Interestingly I got a call from my GW store today. They had a delivery of more Ashes of Faith this morning, so it is worth pestering your store. Ours were working their way through the list of people that were originally interested and didn't get one before putting them out.
And the random box SM heros product is now also a Killteam.
Really? Where are they published? I assumed they were just a tactical squad (heroes 1), or nurgle squad (heroes 2).
Is this a different box of heroes?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
endtransmission wrote: Interestingly I got a call from my GW store today. They had a delivery of more Ashes of Faith this morning, so it is worth pestering your store. Ours were working their way through the list of people that were originally interested and didn't get one before putting them out.
Any sign of the last KT space hulk box? Would really like the scatter and rulebook from that!
New rumours regarding the Season 3 launch box. Again, Space Marine scouts and Aeldari (scorpions or exodites) are rumoured to feature all new kits. Still no intel regarding the new terrain, although the setting hints towards Jungle / Death world terrain..
Space Marine scouts getting a new kit just became semi-confirmed, since people have been spotting a new Scouts transfer sheet in the wild, apparently showcases Raptors chapter.. Could certainly see it dropping in the Season launch box
If S3 launches in August, we'll start getting more info during July
New SM Scouts might be a treat or an abomination, depending on how they will be rescaled.. Quietly hoping they'd look in-scale with the modern firstborn Marines such as MKVI and the upcoming MKII / MKIII
I’d prefer pretty much anything to jungle, but as I want both teams and a copy of the rules, the box will probably still be worth it if that’s what it has.
I remain unconvinced about the Striking Scorpions or Exodites being part of the launch box with Scouts.
Especially since this is making the rounds on B&C:
Spoiler:
IF Scouts truly are the Marine half, and it's playing into something that has been poking up in the lore? Raptors would make the box look very bland with Scorpions.
Nevelon wrote: What is that scout symbol supposed to even be?
I think it's just a white circle in which to put a squad number.
Huh. Might be my monitor or eyes, but it looked like there was some texture there. Plain circles for symbol backing would actually be pretty nice to have.
I hope it is a Scouts kill team, I always liked the minis and they are a cool part of the lore. Striking Scorpions is interesting if a little dull for a Kill Team. I feel like they'd have to expand them a bit to give them more ranged abilities.
They told us that it is the Gallowdark teams, I suspect it'll just be a single Sunday announcement and then release, given there's nothing new in it. Not a lot of build up or hype.
Tastyfish wrote: They told us that it is the Gallowdark teams, I suspect it'll just be a single Sunday announcement and then release, given there's nothing new in it. Not a lot of build up or hype.
I still want my sodding Votann Kill Team box. Slightly miffed it's taken this long considering the box was sold out within 20 seconds..
Tastyfish wrote: They told us that it is the Gallowdark teams, I suspect it'll just be a single Sunday announcement and then release, given there's nothing new in it. Not a lot of build up or hype.
I still want my sodding Votann Kill Team box. Slightly miffed it's taken this long considering the box was sold out within 20 seconds..
This might be an unpopular statement, but make sure that you load up a virtual voucher for the GW webstore if you seriously want them. If it follows the pattern of the Kasrkin?
Limit 2 per order, sells out extremely quickly and continues to do so.
Tastyfish wrote: They told us that it is the Gallowdark teams, I suspect it'll just be a single Sunday announcement and then release, given there's nothing new in it. Not a lot of build up or hype.
I still want my sodding Votann Kill Team box. Slightly miffed it's taken this long considering the box was sold out within 20 seconds..
I did manage to snag that box and I need to offload the Votann; PM if interested?
I literally just managed to snag a reasonably priced Autosavant, so my desire for the standalone Inquisitor Kill-team has dropped significantly. I would however love the chance to pick up some Fellgor Ravagers whenever those get released.
The last two preorder weekends have been quite smol in terms of releases, if this keeps up, they will be releasing the Gallowfall separates and the annual in a similarly modest weekend, maybe as soon as next Sunday?
Still hoping to get a box of that medical equipment and escape pods, plus the other, two I think it was, books I still need for the whole space hulk collection.
Chaos Cults FNP dropping to 6+ is very welcome, and was long overdue
Fellgor ravager Frenzy nerfs were exactly like CURAC hoped they would be, also cool. Perhaps now, the other teams will start having a chance against the two teams
Finally, the Inquisition nerfs also seem bang on point, and tones down the obnoxious Absolute Authority gotcha silliness
All in all, good update which cleans the 'slate nicely for S3. All existing teams should be more or less balanced now.. I really have to respect Mr Hamer, he is singlehandedly keeping KT21 together better than the entire 40K team can deal with their mess
Chaos Cults, Inquisition and the Annual 2023 should be out soon.. not many weeks left until Autumn. Given the really modest Sunday previews we've been seeing these past weeks, a small KT21 drop like that would be in line
tauist wrote: Chaos Cults, Inquisition and the Annual 2023 should be out soon.. not many weeks left until Autumn. Given the really modest Sunday previews we've been seeing these past weeks, a small KT21 drop like that would be in line
We still haven't gotten Hand of the Archon, Felgors, or the Hearthkyn--all of which came out before the Inquisition.
Attached to the new AoS rumours was this bit that was offered as a way to prove the validity - AoS rumours have been confirmed by another source
this Sunday some Kill Team boxes and new Kill Team annual should be announced for the next pre order. That way you'll know on Sunday if I'm at least somewhat credible.
These will be only old teams sold separately: Beastmen, Drukhari and Inquisition
They sold out online in about 5 minutes and haven't been back in stock. Some shops may have had them but no one did when I was in the US in July.
They've been back in stock multiple times. Unfortunately though, they're a wildly popular kit for conversions...meaning they go out of stock just as quickly.
Matters aren't helped either by people throwing them up as a "must have" for some armies because of the new edition.
I think that while there is a profound theoretical different between "unreleased" and "perennially out of stock" the practical difference rounds to zero.
So Annual 2023 is worthless if you already have all 5 books from the season? If this sets a precedent, I might skip many of the books from S3, perhaps more convenient to buy Annual 2024 for the rules for all teams instead.. I mean, the Season launch box is probably a good un, but the rest of em might turn out to be skippable
Another week without anything new to buy, it seems. Hope stock lasts long enough for people to get the teams they are missing out on!
You can tell from the cover it has the Ashes of Faith teams, but nowhere on the article does it mention Ashes of Faith. So probably just strips out the teams and has none of the extra rules for that campaign.
Wonder why they decided to compile this season's books into an annual rather than release individually.
Ancient Otter wrote: You can tell from the cover it has the Ashes of Faith teams, but nowhere on the article does it mention Ashes of Faith. So probably just strips out the teams and has none of the extra rules for that campaign.
Wonder why they decided to compile this season's books into an annual rather than release individually.
They had nothing else to fill the annual with? The WD content has been a lot leaner than last year.
tauist wrote: So Annual 2023 is worthless if you already have all 5 books from the season?
Was it not like this already with the previous ones? Honest question, I do not know.
Nope, Annual 2022 compiled all the White Dwarf article stuff from the previous season. We didn't get any WD content for Season 2, which is why this years annual just compiles the campaign books themselves
I do think this is a better format for the Annuals however, I'd much rather have all of Season's missions & rules compiled into a single (digital) volume than having 4-5 separate smaller books. Still might end up flipping my S2 books for this one tbh
tauist wrote: We didn't get any WD content for Season 2, which is why this years annual just compiles the campaign books themselves
We did get a multiplayer mission that also featured the end of Malys' story from Soulshackle (some bizarre double-double cross somehow). Hopefully that will be included in the annual for completeness!
Now the timing of the latest KT21 balance update makes sense, folks will start to have a more general access to ravagers and cults in a few weeks. Its kind of neat for people who missed out on the S2 boxes, assuming that the terrain sprues will remain in sale for a while..
We're now at £40 for softbacks? And now almost two years since the release of KT'21, after a whole deluge of overpriced books and £100+ box sets...still no rules for Banshees.
tauist wrote: So Annual 2023 is worthless if you already have all 5 books from the season? If this sets a precedent, I might skip many of the books from S3, perhaps more convenient to buy Annual 2024 for the rules for all teams instead.. I mean, the Season launch box is probably a good un, but the rest of em might turn out to be skippable
Another week without anything new to buy, it seems. Hope stock lasts long enough for people to get the teams they are missing out on!
Of course with the limited runs of most of the sets not everyone managed to get all the boxes.
SamusDrake wrote: We're now at £40 for softbacks? And now almost two years since the release of KT'21, after a whole deluge of overpriced books and £100+ box sets...still no rules for Banshees.
Remember that this book compiles together 5 campaign books, each costing 35€.. so basically you are getting 175€'s worth of books
Remember that this book compiles together 5 campaign books, each costing 35€.. so basically you are getting 175€'s worth of books
Which, again, were all overpriced in the first place. Besides, the core 40K book is a hard back at £40 and the Necromunda rule book - also a hard back - is £42.50. Both close to 300 pages, give or take.
I’d be getting two books worth of stuff I don’t have (beastmen, squats, inqiuisition, cultists) for less than the standard price of two of those books. Probably less than that, with discounters.
Do we know if the Gallowfall book will be released separately now? It's the only one I haven't managed to grab on eBay, so it'll be a bit annoying to have to re-buy the rest of Gallowdark in the annual just to get that.
DaveC wrote: Prices. That’s a big jump in price for the annual.
Thanks for sharing. Do we know how much Killzone Upgrade: Gallowfall will be?
It not being on the price list makes me think it’ll be direct only. Shadow Vault was $35 and Soul Shackle $60, so I’d go in expecting to pay $60 and be surprised if it’s less. I’m fairly sure the difference is vault was only one sprue and shackle has two.
7 hours after launch, and items still avaialble on the Webstore... that's a first (for a good long while, or so it seems!!) I expected at least a few of the items (such as the Gallowfall terrain and Inquisitor team) to sell out in minutes, given the debacle around their respective boxsets.
Clockpunk wrote: 7 hours after launch, and items still avaialble on the Webstore... that's a first (for a good long while, or so it seems!!) I expected at least a few of the items (such as the Gallowfall terrain and Inquisitor team) to sell out in minutes, given the debacle around their respective boxsets.
The Inquisitor team were temporarily out of stock when I looked at 11:30 and still are now.
Clockpunk wrote: 7 hours after launch, and items still avaialble on the Webstore... that's a first (for a good long while, or so it seems!!) I expected at least a few of the items (such as the Gallowfall terrain and Inquisitor team) to sell out in minutes, given the debacle around their respective boxsets.
The Inquisitor team were temporarily out of stock when I looked at 11:30 and still are now.
But it only tells you when you click on them. Fingers crossed once they get this warehouse move done and settled they will be able t get back to good stocking for most things.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Every time someone says "dices", they push them back a month.
Dang it! I want opaque Orange cubes with black pips and a beardy mug for my Votann. KT ones are usually orange unless GW trolls us with black ones instead.
Having a hard time seeing how one is supposed to build a KT21 team from these models. Sure enough, they get the datasheets for the individual operators, but where are the rest of their rules? We'd still need to see their
Gosh, just realized that if these minis can be used to form a 6 model team (by taking out the captain), they'd make my ideal Primaris replacement for trad. firstborn tac squads. So that must then mean that it is futile to think I could field such squads in 40K proper..
.jpg.529ac583297d7aed4353c868205b0b4e.jpg){kind=spacer}
