Ashiraya wrote:


When these are released, sixteen Legions will have been kitted out for the Horus Heresy!

Excellent.

Please don't screw up Thousand Sons and Space Wolves! Or make them break the HH game.

*Crosses Fingers*

 kronk wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:


When these are released, sixteen Legions will have been kitted out for the Horus Heresy!

Excellent.

Please don't screw up Thousand Sons and Space Wolves! Or make them break the HH game.

*Crosses Fingers*

I am somewhat encouraged that they're taking so long on what are going to be monstrously good sales for them, as they wrestle with making sure the rules are good. Staving off instant cash satisfaction in order to do it right.

That said, I would LOVE some of what the BA and DA are getting, in terms of torsos, heads, and shoulder pads, so I could get the ball rolling on at least building a bunch of infantry for the Thousand Sons I'll be doing.

Hopefully the Prospero book won't be as much of a rushed product as Tempest is.

shade1313 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
Every time I see an argument about scale or realism...

LEMAN RUSS BATTLE TANK!

It's 40k folks.

The Leman Russ Battle Tank is also a tractor with a gun strapped to it.
I think its terrible design is perfectly realistic

I think he's more referring to there being NO room in the turret for both the breech of the gun and the tank commander who waves his sword out of the hatch, much less for a loader and/or gunner. And we won't even get into the ammo supply, and shells that would be sized to go down that huge bore.

He obviously rides that cannon like a mad man rides an atom bomb.
As far as ammo capacity goes aren't we lucky 40k only lasts so many turns? It is heroic scale... Objects in Heroic scale are less stubbier and wider than they appear. Take a bolter which people accept as decently proportioned; you scale it to life size and you have a 2" muzzle launching a .75cal projectile.

 BrookM wrote:
Hopefully the Prospero book won't be as much of a rushed product as Tempest is.

True. I've seen a few typos in the Guard list from Tempest.

 kronk wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Hopefully the Prospero book won't be as much of a rushed product as Tempest is.

True. I've seen a few typos in the Guard list from Tempest.

Still waiting on that FAQ for those fixes and the point costs of the psykers entry.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
The Russ is based of the French BDR G1B, one of a series of similar interwar proposed designed for a new standard infantry tank for the French army, which would reach its conclusion with the ARL 44, designed in secret under Nazi occupation as a rapid-build tank using existing hardware reserves and a new gun to re-arm the French army post-liberation as quickly as possible, but was never followed past the prototype stage.

They were objectively bad tanks, which is why they were never adopted, but even so were better designed than the russ, with the proper barrel/turret ratio, and actual space for suspension and movement of roadwheels under the side armour, which is the Russ's biggest failing; it'd get stuck on the slightest of rough terrain.

I had always thought that the Russ was based more on the Vickers No 1 interwar tank. The track configuration (both shape and lack of fenders) and hull shape are very close and the turret is an early predator style turret. No sponsons, but sponsons were pretty much done by the end of WWI.

Pic:
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205191029

I don't think it's based on any one tank but on the general aesthetic commonalities of tanks from that era.

I always wad told the Russ was based off a wwi tank kit that didn't have a turret and that GW added one.

Maybe the discussion regarding the iconic look of the Leman Russ should be continued elsewhere, before certain parties get involved?

As mush as I dislike the Dark Angels as a chapter, I might have to get some of those heads and torsos and remove the iconography. They look amazing!

Looks like Blood angels, dark Angels, and White Scars get their day in court next book.

 Kepora wrote:
As mush as I dislike the Dark Angels as a chapter, I might have to get some of those heads and torsos and remove the iconography. They look amazing!

Seems an awfully expensive way of doing things lol.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Kepora wrote:
As mush as I dislike the Dark Angels as a chapter, I might have to get some of those heads and torsos and remove the iconography. They look amazing!

Seems an awfully expensive way of doing things lol.

Maybe, but I honestly like them better then the actual Iron Warriors upgrades. It's a shame, the IW offerings were just..really underwhelming, IMO. :T

 Kepora wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Kepora wrote:
As mush as I dislike the Dark Angels as a chapter, I might have to get some of those heads and torsos and remove the iconography. They look amazing!

Seems an awfully expensive way of doing things lol.

Maybe, but I honestly like them better then the actual Iron Warriors upgrades. It's a shame, the IW offerings were just..really underwhelming, IMO. :T

Iron Hands torsos and heads are even more tragic.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Kepora wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Kepora wrote:
As mush as I dislike the Dark Angels as a chapter, I might have to get some of those heads and torsos and remove the iconography. They look amazing!

Seems an awfully expensive way of doing things lol.

Maybe, but I honestly like them better then the actual Iron Warriors upgrades. It's a shame, the IW offerings were just..really underwhelming, IMO. :T

Iron Hands torsos and heads are even more tragic.

Some of those are good - though the full-body conversion sets are indeed better. XD And even then they make for better Iron Warrior figures - post-heresy, at least.

 Kepora wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Kepora wrote:
As mush as I dislike the Dark Angels as a chapter, I might have to get some of those heads and torsos and remove the iconography. They look amazing!

Seems an awfully expensive way of doing things lol.

Maybe, but I honestly like them better then the actual Iron Warriors upgrades. It's a shame, the IW offerings were just..really underwhelming, IMO. :T

Its not any more expensive than using the IW sets anyway..?

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Kepora wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Kepora wrote:
As mush as I dislike the Dark Angels as a chapter, I might have to get some of those heads and torsos and remove the iconography. They look amazing!

Seems an awfully expensive way of doing things lol.

Maybe, but I honestly like them better then the actual Iron Warriors upgrades. It's a shame, the IW offerings were just..really underwhelming, IMO. :T

Its not any more expensive than using the IW sets anyway..?

yeah, but the GW one is kinda...meh. The shoulderpads and torsos were made for 3rd ed. marines, so they look weird on current models. The lascannon arms' left arm never fits right either; the set's only really good for some of the helmets and the meltagun.

No I mean, angelofvengence said it was an expensive way to go about it, but it isn't any more expensive than using the upgrade parts for your actual legion, and it's no more expensive than using any upgrade parts. So I don't really get why it's an 'awfully expensive way to do things'.

The new Forge World site is up along with AoS compendiums for Tamurkhan's Horde and the Legion of Azgorh, and there's an exclusive new Heresy Centurion. No regional pricing but the website looks easier to navigate now

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/aos_warscrolls/warhammer-aos-tamurkhans-horde.pdf

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/aos_warscrolls/warhammer-aos-legion-of-azgorh.pdf

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Space-Marine-Legion-Centurion-Web-Exclusive

Looks like he took a hammer to the face. Yikes! Might make an ok Death Guard character.

Well done fw, give it articifer armour and a 3+ save on its profile

 Formosa wrote:
Well done fw, give it articifer armour and a 3+ save on its profile

Don't care about a special write up for this guy, but I AM interested in getting him and putting a Mk 3 Salamanders helmet on him, and shoulder pads if possible.

shade1313 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Well done fw, give it articifer armour and a 3+ save on its profile

Don't care about a special write up for this guy, but I AM interested in getting him and putting a Mk 3 Salamanders helmet on him, and shoulder pads if possible.

Then your a bloody loyalist scumbag fool!!!!!!!!58194!!!!

World eater bunny ears for the win!

 Rygnan wrote:
The new Forge World site is up along with AoS compendiums for Tamurkhan's Horde and the Legion of Azgorh, and there's an exclusive new Heresy Centurion. No regional pricing but the website looks easier to navigate now

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/aos_warscrolls/warhammer-aos-tamurkhans-horde.pdf

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/aos_warscrolls/warhammer-aos-legion-of-azgorh.pdf

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Space-Marine-Legion-Centurion-Web-Exclusive

Love the new Centurion, and even with shipping, he is only a tad more than a plastic clampack marine HQ.
Dislike the new site thouh. I liked the old one- plain, simple. Not a fan of these nested animated lists that are "flashy" and more "mobile friendly"
Least it is easier to find the downloads.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Rygnan wrote:
The new Forge World site is up along with AoS compendiums for Tamurkhan's Horde and the Legion of Azgorh, and there's an exclusive new Heresy Centurion. No regional pricing but the website looks easier to navigate now

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/aos_warscrolls/warhammer-aos-tamurkhans-horde.pdf

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/aos_warscrolls/warhammer-aos-legion-of-azgorh.pdf

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Space-Marine-Legion-Centurion-Web-Exclusive

Love the new Centurion, and even with shipping, he is only a tad more than a plastic clampack marine HQ.
Dislike the new site thouh. I liked the old one- plain, simple. Not a fan of these nested animated lists that are "flashy" and more "mobile friendly"
Least it is easier to find the downloads.

I am working in Nottingham this week at Chetwynd Barracks so I will be picking up 4 of them for me and my mates, 20 quid without postage is a fair price to me.

I really wish they would allow us non-Brits to select the currency we want to see the prices in.

I don't think this guy's rules work very well for 40K (allegedly they are supposed to be available...). 85 pts for him is WAY underpriced. I would like to see better rules for standard 40K. Not for that schmuck, but so I can run my Power Fist and Bolt Pistol Captain using these rules. That relic isn't the worst, stubborn is a fun rule.

I would be ordering one right now if it would let me log in!
Anyone else having problems logging in? It doesn't recognize my email/password that worked a couple days ago, and two attempts to "I forgot my password, send me a link to fix it" have resulted in 0 emails. Not doing much to make me happy with the new site.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I really wish they would allow us non-Brits to select the currency we want to see the prices in.

I don't think this guy's rules work very well for 40K (allegedly they are supposed to be available...). 85 pts for him is WAY underpriced. I would like to see better rules for standard 40K. Not for that schmuck, but so I can run my Power Fist and Bolt Pistol Captain using these rules. That relic isn't the worst, stubborn is a fun rule.

The 85 point profile is for the HH version. Note that he is a 2 wound consul, and priced to match. Base + artificer + power fist is 80, and those extra 5 cover the master crafting on the fist.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I would be ordering one right now if it would let me log in!
Anyone else having problems logging in? It doesn't recognize my email/password that worked a couple days ago, and two attempts to "I forgot my password, send me a link to fix it" have resulted in 0 emails. Not doing much to make me happy with the new site.

I can only assume that they didn't transfer their existing customer database and you need to make a new account, just like when they switched the GW site to the same framework.

Doing that now. Makes it hard to look up old orders and such though.

The new relic for codex marines is meh. 15 points for stubborn and PE(CSM) is a little steep over standard AA.

 Crazyterran wrote:
The new relic for codex marines is meh. 15 points for stubborn and PE(CSM) is a little steep over standard AA.

Especially when he does already come with Artificer Armour (well it's in his equipment list, but it says 3+ save... So there's a typo somewhere).

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
The new relic for codex marines is meh. 15 points for stubborn and PE(CSM) is a little steep over standard AA.

Especially when he does already come with Artificer Armour (well it's in his equipment list, but it says 3+ save... So there's a typo somewhere).

The unit entry is for the HH version, a consul, who does not have the relic armor. Just normal artificer armor (and yes, a typo in his armor line)
The relic armor entry is if you want to run a 40K character with this armor. You would take a Captain, Chaplain, Chapter Master, ect and pay the +35 points to replace their power armor, and then use this model to represent that particular relic if you so desire.

So that marines face intentionally looks like one of the Monty Python Gumbys was inducted into the Ultramarines? Or is it just poor sculpting?

Certainly has that Finecast on a hot day look to him.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
The new relic for codex marines is meh. 15 points for stubborn and PE(CSM) is a little steep over standard AA.

Especially when he does already come with Artificer Armour (well it's in his equipment list, but it says 3+ save... So there's a typo somewhere).

The unit entry is for the HH version, a consul, who does not have the relic armor. Just normal artificer armor (and yes, a typo in his armor line)
The relic armor entry is if you want to run a 40K character with this armor. You would take a Captain, Chaplain, Chapter Master, ect and pay the +35 points to replace their power armor, and then use this model to represent that particular relic if you so desire.

Oh I see. Well, just ignore me then.

Why in the new centurion "Web exclusive". Unless you live near Warhammer world all forge world items are Web exclusive!

 Lockark wrote:
Why in the new centurion "Web exclusive". Unless you live near Warhammer world all forge world items are Web exclusive!

Exclusive in that it will only be available til Sep 30, and it celebrates the mediocre new website. Least it looks good, even better than the PA Praetor model IMO.

Anyone spotted the "awesome launch offers?" Is it just the Centurion and free shipping for £100?

I miss read the new letter, thought it was spend £100 get centurion. I plan on starting my HH Space Wolves next month and thought a free dude would be great....then saw its £20, no thanks.

Annoying, looks like the 12% charge is still in place. £100 spend for free postage is nice but won't last long.



However, looks like there's some things now back up for sale again that disappeared

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I really wish they would allow us non-Brits to select the currency we want to see.

As I keep saying about this: Be careful what you wish for.

tedurur wrote:
Anyone spotted the "awesome launch offers?" Is it just the Centurion and free shipping for £100?

Yeah, the centurion is £20. This is a nice model for the price, though:



They should make free shipping 100GBP permanent. That's a way easier price point to hit than 250GBP on an impulse buy.

£100 impulse buy? Jesus.

"Don't care. Got mine." indeed.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
£100 impulse buy? Jesus.

"Don't care. Got mine." indeed.

Well, most of the vehicles from FW is at least GBP100. Sooooo..... if you buy one because you think it's cool... that's an impulse buy, right?

I am very tempted to bite the bullet and pick up that Acheron I've been wanting for a while now, especially with the free shipping.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I really wish they would allow us non-Brits to select the currency we want to see.

As I keep saying about this: Be careful what you wish for.

Why? Are you thinking that they'll give people "Australian prices"? Since they aren't stocking it locally, I don't see the reason for that.

 zedmeister wrote:
However, looks like there's some things now back up for sale again that disappeared

Ooo, what? I haven't spotted anything yet...

Oh, another "bonus" --

Orders over £250 qualify for Free Express Delivery. Until 30th September 2015 orders over £100 qualify for Free Standard Shipping.

I bought the space marine centurion, a sicaran, and some BA icons just over GBP100. Knowing GW... in a few hours, the centurion will be probably sold out. LOL.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I really wish they would allow us non-Brits to select the currency we want to see.

As I keep saying about this: Be careful what you wish for.

I doubt they could screw us Americans over as bad as they have screwed the Aussies over.

Then again, the ripple effect of this would be that the Aussies would lose their "bargain" minis in the form of FW.

If I wanted to piss my wife off, I would be ordering 100 pounds(my keyboard doesn't even have that key!) of stuff (probably Alexis Polux, two Rapier Quad Cannons, and some Razorback turrets) to get free shipping. But since I don't want to piss my wife off, I will have to wait a bit and probably just get the Rapier Quad Cannons to use as Thunderfire Cannons (alongside two GW Techmarines).

Amazing. They delete everyone's existing accounts, migrate over to the fething awful GW website layout, yet they're still doing the totally unjustifiable 12% flat-rate shipping cost?!

feth 'em, time to go east.

It looks like they also pulled most of their bundles. gak.

Wow, that centurion is really helping cement my opinion that FW has lost its status as a real boutique manufacturer and is now simply pumping out more and more power armour crap like GW proper.

The "House Terryn Upgrade kit" is now shown as no longer available, which is a shame.

Damn, most of the Chaos Dwarf stuff has disappeared. That was the only army that would get me back into Fantasy.

30$+ Marine that looks like a normal heresy marine? Uh.. Pass. I think the only thing I can justify at FW prices are the books nowadays.

The 12% shipping just seems like a 10% tax when you can get free or minimal shipping from almost any store in the world.

The new site is much better to navigate (and obviously similar to the standard GW site), but my main gripe is that even when I click 'Warhammer 40,000', I still have to look at loads of Horus Heresy stuff. I'd really like to filter those out, as I'm fed up staring at models' legs to work out whether they're heresy-era or not.

There is also talk of some upcoming exclusive Forge World store-only miniatures, including the much awaited———DELETED BY THE INQUISITION———

(sauce)
Could be interesting. There's been talk about some exclusive minis since they announced the store, and it's been mentioned a couple of times on the WHW website.

Hopefully that seated and standing Imperial Noble for your Knight.

I love everything about that Centurion apart from his head, just does not look right to me, going to have to swap that out for sure.
The armour is pretty tasty though.

Yeah man, that head kinda ruins it for me. Really cartoon-ey and 40k-ish. urgh.

Looks like they have fixed the Av to 2+

The rules for the Centurion seem to have been updated - he now has a 2+ save in the profile. I assume the relic is supposed to be given to a Captain to represent him in a 40k SM army.

Centurions are the captain equivalent during the Heresy era yes.

A lot of things that were 'Out of Stock' and coming back 'soon' when inquired have disappeared.

Poor SoB Repressor.. amongst other things.

 Shandara wrote:
A lot of things that were 'Out of Stock' and coming back 'soon' when inquired have disappeared.

Poor SoB Repressor.. amongst other things.

Yepp - along with most, if not all of the rule pdfs. Let's hope they did so just because they are going to offer new models / provide updated rules 'soon'.

BTW anyone else having an issue with the new FW and the GW shop site? It keeps showing me the mobile version on my desktop (Firefox 40, Win7x64) and I have to switch to Full Version every time i visit - doesn't happen in other browsers though.

So they've put the rules up for Nurgle Tamurkhan and Chaos Dwarves in AoS... Anyone here use them?

 Talys wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I really wish they would allow us non-Brits to select the currency we want to see.

As I keep saying about this: Be careful what you wish for.

Why? Are you thinking that they'll give people "Australian prices"? Since they aren't stocking it locally, I don't see the reason for that.

No, we wouldn't get the arbitrarily high prices that Australia gets, but we would be stuck with what would presumably be higher prices than we pay now. Just look at some of the old FW catalogs that listed US$ prices, they were often slightly higher than the exchange rate at the time.

For now, at least, we're able to keep an eye on exchange rates and make a purchase when they're a bit more favorable to the dollar, reducing the overall expense somewhat.

 Talys wrote:
Why? Are you thinking that they'll give people "Australian prices"? Since they aren't stocking it locally, I don't see the reason for that.

I'm thinking they'll give Australian people Australian prices, so despite still coming from the UK and us still having to pay shipping (unless we "impulse buy" £100... LOL!), they'll cost 25%-50% more for no God-damned reason.

I know, I know, "Don't care. Got mine!", but for those of us who aren't you this could be a big deal.

I like the Centurion. He can be an Imperial Fist with a Solarite Power Gauntlet in my HH army. Or perhaps a sergeant. I like the Terran Era eagle shoulder pad.

I just Re-Registered my account, though. Annoying that I can't go see my old orders.

Having just spent a bunch of $$$ at GenCon and a couple of vacations this year, I'll not be hitting that 100 British Pound moneys for anything anytime soon. I'll just grab the Centurion and keep paint my Bones I and II. (Finished a Barbarian! Might do a dragon next! Yay, off topic!)

 Rayvon wrote:
I love everything about that Centurion apart from his head, just does not look right to me, going to have to swap that out for sure.
The armour is pretty tasty though.

The head is posed slightly differently between the painted and unpainted versions, so that should be easy enough. Mk 3 Salamanders helmet, as I said, is my plan.

 kronk wrote:
I like the Centurion. He can be an Imperial Fist with a Solarite Power Gauntlet in my HH army. Or perhaps a sergeant. I like the Terran Era eagle shoulder pad.

The fist also drew my eye and that thought also crossed my mind. Looks like Fists may be happening after all.

I'm deeply disappointed that this new shift will not allow me to place FW orders at my local GW shop...

I know it was wishful thinking that it would happen, but damn was I wishing.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm deeply disappointed that this new shift will not allow me to place FW orders at my local GW shop...

I know it was wishful thinking that it would happen, but damn was I wishing.

Yeah, me too.

That could still happen eventually, Kan, particularly after plastic HH comes out.

It could be that they're doing this in stages, so moving to the same web design is just the obvious first step, and we'll eventually end up with an almost completely integrated website, with in-store ordering possible.

Here's hoping it won't randomly put me on the German or Spanish site like the regular GW site does though.

Did anyone else notice that nowhere in this advert was an actual URL for their "new" web store? I mean we all know it but don't companies usually include that detail anyway? For a web store? That's "new"?

 Rayvon wrote:
I love everything about that Centurion apart from his head, just does not look right to me, going to have to swap that out for sure.
The armour is pretty tasty though.

I agree. The mouth looks a little lop-sided, like he's had a stroke. I really like the rest of it though.

The Centurion head does not fit an Ultramarine, but if that is a Death Guard Centurion it works much better.

The fluffy description mentions he is a Terran, so he probably saw some horrible gak before being joined by his father and it it's an Ultra, they saw some horrifying gak of their own for sure.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Talys wrote:
Why? Are you thinking that they'll give people "Australian prices"? Since they aren't stocking it locally, I don't see the reason for that.

I'm thinking they'll give Australian people Australian prices, so despite still coming from the UK and us still having to pay shipping (unless we "impulse buy" £100... LOL!), they'll cost 25%-50% more for no God-damned reason.

I know, I know, "Don't care. Got mine!", but for those of us who aren't you this could be a big deal.

Dude, I asked you a perfectly reasonable question in a totally polite way. Why the hostility? Do you just resent people who can afford to buy stuff from Forge World? Obviously, I care; otherwise, why would I ask? If I were to take your tone, I'd reply to every one of your posts with, "Butthurt. Whine more!"

To respond to your concern:

In the current distribution modelI don't think that if they offer home currency pricing, there would be a price increase among other currencies. GW has claimed that the prices for their products in Australia is higher because of costs of operations and distribution there. Since Forge World products aren't distributed from Australia, stocked there, or sold locally, there would be no such reason for this.

Now, on the other hand, if rumors are true, and stores start stocking Forge World products later in the year, or if FW products can be ordered to GW stores with free shipping, this could absolutely happen.

Note that currency exchanges don't hurt everybody. There are some regions that have prices that are actually consistently cheaper than the UK, when factoring in currency.

Talys, mate, your passive aggressive is showing, put it away.

As for your point?

One word: Digital.

These are sad times when we consider free shipping for $200 to be a bargain...

The centurion model is nice although the head does remind me of this:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Talys, mate, your passive aggressive is showing, put it away.

As for your point?

One word: Digital.

Nah, there was no passive at all It was right to the point. I'm not sure if he has a problem with all people who can afford GW/FW products and express that they like them, or just me. I don't know why you'd bother posting in a thread about a website where pretty much every purchase is going to be over GBP100, like a GBP100 purchase is a big deal. If you can't afford models that are GBP100, you're not gonna be buying Forge World. Or at least not much.

HBMC posted a valid concern, which was the only reason I responded at all.

I don't get what you mean by "digital", sorry.

 Talys wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Talys, mate, your passive aggressive is showing, put it away.

As for your point?

One word: Digital.

Nah, there was no passive at all It was right to the point. I'm not sure if he has a problem with all people who can afford GW/FW products and express that they like them, or just me. I don't know why you'd bother posting in a thread about a website where pretty much every purchase is going to be over GBP100, like a GBP100 purchase is a big deal. If you can't afford models that are GBP100, you're not gonna be buying Forge World. Or at least not much.

HBMC posted a valid concern, which was the only reason I responded at all.

I don't get what you mean by "digital", sorry.

Be the bigger man and just ignore him, Talys. I don't know why you bother with H.B.M.C. and Azrael13. They just don't like Games Workshop and enjoy harassing people who do.

@vyx - lol, yeah. Az seems to think he's performing a public service by telling people that I'm wrong; HBMC... I have no idea.

Oh well, not everyone can like me I guess!

Anyways, back on topic for the thread: I think permanent free shipping at GBP 100 would be a great thing. It's a reasonable threshold, given that everyone understands the cost of shipping from the UK is not cheap.

 Talys wrote:
Anyways, back on topic for the thread: I think permanent free shipping at GBP 100 would be a great thing. It's a reasonable threshold, given that everyone understands the cost of shipping from the UK is not cheap.

Yes, I ship things out to Europe all the time, and price of basic post for a small parcel or large envelope really steep. But we get screwed by Canada Post anyhow. I think we have some of the most expensive mail prices in the developed world.

Vyxen wrote:

 Talys wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Talys, mate, your passive aggressive is showing, put it away.

As for your point?

One word: Digital.

Nah, there was no passive at all It was right to the point. I'm not sure if he has a problem with all people who can afford GW/FW products and express that they like them, or just me. I don't know why you'd bother posting in a thread about a website where pretty much every purchase is going to be over GBP100, like a GBP100 purchase is a big deal. If you can't afford models that are GBP100, you're not gonna be buying Forge World. Or at least not much.

HBMC posted a valid concern, which was the only reason I responded at all.

I don't get what you mean by "digital", sorry.

Be the bigger man and just ignore him, Talys. I don't know why you bother with H.B.M.C. and Azrael13. They just don't like Games Workshop and enjoy harassing people who do.

If you've a problem with something I post, kindly do me the courtesy of responding to me directly, not indulging in some sort of weird schoolyard attempt to whisper behind my back, which, spoiler alert, doesn't work on a written forum.

That's what PMs are for, and, whoo, you should hear what everyone is saying about you!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and just to address your massively wide of the mark comment, I don't enjoy harassing people who like GW, I simply don't like people trying to irrationally defend their preferences with poor arguments.

It is also possible, in the case of something as complex as GW, to be critical of certain aspects while liking others, although it is getting harder for me to find things to like, I'll admit.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Amazing. They delete everyone's existing accounts, migrate over to the fething awful GW website layout, yet they're still doing the totally unjustifiable 12% flat-rate shipping cost?!

feth 'em, time to go east.

I noticed that as well. I went to log in on the new site and had to re-register.

 -Shrike- wrote:
It could be that they're doing this in stages, so moving to the same web design is just the obvious first step, and we'll eventually end up with an almost completely integrated website, with in-store ordering possible.

The first step on the road to disappointment is actually Hope!

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm deeply disappointed that this new shift will not allow me to place FW orders at my local GW shop...

I know it was wishful thinking that it would happen, but damn was I wishing.

I, for one, am glad they aren't sticking us with the horrid US to English price conversions in the physical FW catalog.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Amazing. They delete everyone's existing accounts, migrate over to the fething awful GW website layout, yet they're still doing the totally unjustifiable 12% flat-rate shipping cost?!

feth 'em, time to go east.

This? This is what is pushing you over the edge to recasting?

OK, then.

I didn't see if this was posted here already, but someone who worked on the new website is answering questions.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/3gpe2j/iama_graphic_designer_who_worked_on_the_new_forge/

Azrael13, Talys makes excellent arguments. I enjoy reading his posts immensely.

I also really like GW models and I absolutely love Age of Sigmar. I think they make just wonderful games. I am thick-skinned, and don't really care what people think of me, ESPECIALLY people online that I don't know and won't ever meet. I do not have any self-esteem issues, LOL.

I really dislike all the negative posts here. Some people (you are one of them) seem to repeat the same complaints about Games Workshop over and over and over, "ad nauseum". I came here because there were great pictures of models, interesting news, and little tips about Age of Sigmar, but there are way too many snarky comments that just make finding news pretty much not worth the effort except to scan for pictures.

I think Forge World makes really nice products, though they are a bit advanced for me. I'm glad they have a new web site, and I like it better than the old one.

You'll very rarely see me post in a thread in isolation simply to make a negative comment (unless maybe I really don't like a new model or something.)

If you're seeing people making the same arguments, it's simply because there appears to be a factory somewhere that spits out a new poster every few weeks who makes the same statements that have long been shown to be false, based on unsteady logic or whatever, and consequently provoke similar responses.

But the fact that you think Talys makes excellent arguments suggests this conversation isn't going anywhere...

And maybe take it somewhere else kiddos? Before other parties get involved.

 BrookM wrote:
And maybe take it somewhere else kiddos? Before other parties get involved.

Yes, please - back on topic!

This thread is for discussing new FW releases, not the general state of GW (there are many threads in Dakka Discussions for that).

 RiTides wrote:

Yes, please - back on topic!

This thread is for discussing new FW releases, not the general state of GW (there are many many many many threads in Dakka Discussions for that).

Fixed that for you RiTides

What sort of specialist units will the Dark Angels Legion have in 30K then? Has there been any mention of that sort of stuff in the books (Black Library books)

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 RiTides wrote:

Yes, please - back on topic!

This thread is for discussing new FW releases, not the general state of GW (there are many many many many threads in Dakka Discussions for that).

Fixed that for you RiTides

What sort of specialist units will the Dark Angels Legion have in 30K then? Has there been any mention of that sort of stuff in the books (Black Library books)

Something with Bikes and Something with Terminator Armor, I bet.

Perhaps even a special Jet Bike unit!

Might there be a special unit/collection of characters who are Johnson's inner circle?

 Azreal13 wrote:
Might there be a special unit/collection of characters who are Johnson's inner circle?

Merir Astelan and Attias would be nice.

You can also expect Corswain to show up, alongside Cypher and co.

Cypher would be interesting.

But the question would remain, would it be just one of those who had the title Lord Cypher, or would it be an earlier version of 40k Cypher.

The best thing would probably be to keep Cypher out of the game, it is hard as hell to live up to the awesome rules they put out for him in 40k.

That's the thing, though, is that the unnamed Cyphr of the time wouldn't be as potent or have accumulated the experience and/or patrons that would account for the 40k version's rules, IF it's even the same being. At that point, same person or not, his rules ought to be notably different to the version from 10,000 years later.

Oooh, what if 30K Cypher is a later version of 40K Cypher thrown back in time through the warp, and responsible for all sorts of manipulation?

Luther, he has to be in. I'd put money down on Luther and Corswain, Luther because he's Luther and Corswain because he's essentially the Legion Champion.

I doubt Cypher would make it because he's really just a hooded Moritat. Although if they do make a model for him, i bet it would be far better than the 40k version.

Corswain has been name dropped a few times now as one of the best swordsmen in the entire Legion Astartes, alongside Sigismund and Sev, so he will be in, I'm sure of that.

I absolutely hate this new site. The old one was really nice with all kinds of big buttons to click on. This one has sidebars. I hate sidebars!
Also, the centurion model is nice (dat head though), but I think it is really strange the armour can not be taken by BA, SW or DA.

oh ffs, the site isn't even that bad. Yeah, it's not as convenient as the other one, but this is another thing that just seems to prove that people will whine about anything that GW does at this point. "oh my god, the new FW site has things I don't like, welp, time to quit the hobby!"

I could not find the Imperial Armour books until I used the search function.

What are they listed under? Like the Badab War and stuff.

 Brennonjw wrote:
oh ffs, the site isn't even that bad. Yeah, it's not as convenient as the other one, but this is another thing that just seems to prove that people will whine about anything that GW does at this point. "oh my god, the new FW site has things I don't like, welp, time to quit the hobby!"

Well, since no one has said that, or anything close to that, it is probably best to not add to the Hyperbole that is...The Internet.

Thanks!

Well, that puts paid to the 'Combining Forgeworld and GW websites' thing.

 kronk wrote:
I could not find the Imperial Armour books until I used the search function.

What are they listed under? Like the Badab War and stuff.

They've got a tick-box of their own. The books are under the 40k section, in between Featured Products and Titans.

 BrookM wrote:

 kronk wrote:
I could not find the Imperial Armour books until I used the search function.

What are they listed under? Like the Badab War and stuff.

They've got a tick-box of their own. The books are under the 40k section, in between Featured Products and Titans.

Oh.

I don't like it.

Obviously the new site is worse, everything GW does with this stuff is always worse. The basic defense right now though seems to be that "it could have been much worse

 kronk wrote:

 BrookM wrote:

 kronk wrote:
I could not find the Imperial Armour books until I used the search function.

What are they listed under? Like the Badab War and stuff.

They've got a tick-box of their own. The books are under the 40k section, in between Featured Products and Titans.

Oh.

I don't like it.

Neither do I, but c'est la vie.

Let's see how long before BL adopts the same site.

 Shandara wrote:
A lot of things that were 'Out of Stock' and coming back 'soon' when inquired have disappeared.

Poor SoB Repressor.. amongst other things.

D'awww. I'm not a Sisters player, never will be, but I DID want some of those repressor kits to make more armored-up-looking rhinos..

 crazyK wrote:
I didn't see if this was posted here already, but someone who worked on the new website is answering questions.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/3gpe2j/iama_graphic_designer_who_worked_on_the_new_forge/

Intriguing. I think this comment is quite revealing:

Q: Site looks great! Now tell those boys to make some new warhammer models once and a while

A: They may do some more later on down the line, but the decision comes from board level, not the Forge World team.

Maybe FW don't have as much freedom as I perceived...

I really hope we get rules and models for the Pseudo Astartes human knights of the Dark Angels legion.

I would love to build an allied detachment of just them, they always stuck out in the fluff.

New site looks fine for me to be honest and glad that older stuff is popping back up on there for sale again.
Just please put the god damn toad dragon and war mammoth back on there for sale :(


On a side not though, do people really consider £100 to be a large order from FW?
It just tickled me a bit as alot of the products on there cover this alone.

Hell, i ordered a Harridan 2 weeks ago and randomly grabbed a set of rhino doors just to push the price over £250. (bloody £242, why not round it off?)


Jut hoping FW throw the AOS rules on there for the rest of the stuff.

*head-desk* *Thump!*

*head-desk* *Thump!*

Learn! *thump!*

To! *thump*

Design! *thump*

Webpages! *thump*


What have they done?

Where is my account?

What kind of acid-addled shrew decided on this frakking lay-out?

FILTERS?! what the @$[{€[}]{5#¤&%+0!!!!!!!!!


I am giving them a call tomorrow, respectful to the workers ofc, it's not their fault after all, but lodging a bitter complaint about the ineptitude of the IT-management and the direction their main customer relations platform is taking ...

*sigh*

*cries in a corner*

 kronk wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Amazing. They delete everyone's existing accounts, migrate over to the fething awful GW website layout, yet they're still doing the totally unjustifiable 12% flat-rate shipping cost?!

feth 'em, time to go east.

This? This is what is pushing you over the edge to recasting?

OK, then.

That they've decided to yet again display their utter contempt for people who buy from them by shifting their site to the objectively worse to use GW software/layout, and didn't even use the opportunity to finally stop fleecing people with a fixed percentage shipping charge that bears no relationship whatsoever to the actual cost of shipping the package? Yeah, sure, on top of everything else that's enough.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Amazing. They delete everyone's existing accounts, migrate over to the fething awful GW website layout, yet they're still doing the totally unjustifiable 12% flat-rate shipping cost?!

feth 'em, time to go east.

This? This is what is pushing you over the edge to recasting?

OK, then.

That they've decided to yet again display their utter contempt for people who buy from them by shifting their site to the objectively worse to use GW software/layout, and didn't even use the opportunity to finally stop fleecing people with a fixed percentage shipping charge that bears no relationship whatsoever to the actual cost of shipping the package? Yeah, sure, on top of everything else that's enough.

I highly doubt that it was the FW studio that made the decision to change over to the new website, but a directive from GW proper.

Filters are the Devil's work.

At least it only cost one million to make the FW website worse, compared to the 4 million (?) of the GW one. That's money well spent compared to some recent ventures of this company.

Considering a lot of GW stuff must be shipped to Stores from Nottingham I will never understand why they still after all these years have never instated some form of free FW shipping if picked up in a GW store. Considering the stuff would more or less be shipped to stores from the same place!

It would get people to visit GW stores and possibly impulsebuy something while theyre there to pick up their stuff. Not to mention all the impulsebuys FW misses out on since the shipping costs are not fixed.

I am very happy that Australians continue to pay the same as everybody else. The (quite large) Australian 30k community breathes a collective sigh of relief!

 crazyK wrote:
I didn't see if this was posted here already, but someone who worked on the new website is answering questions.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/3gpe2j/iama_graphic_designer_who_worked_on_the_new_forge/

My biggest gripe with the new FW website, isn't the layout, the missing bundles or the removal of everything "out of stock".

What I personally find the most sad about the new site, is that they've removed all the names of the designers. They're not credited any more in the descriptions, and they've removed the "meet the designers" page.

Not that it actually mattered to me who designed what, since they're all basically brilliant, but it just made the FW site feel more personable and less faceless and sterile.

Wow what a load of rubbish. GW aren't content to destroy themselves they gotta bring down FW and BL with them

Is there any indication of when we can expect the Mechanicum red book and if so, will it also include the Questoris Knight list, or just those wacky Martians?

Also, what HH book has the rules on Machinator Arrays? I know what it does, but for the sake of completion, which book actually contains the rules for this kit?

 BrookM wrote:
Is there any indication of when we can expect the Mechanicum red book and if so, will it also include the Questoris Knight list, or just those wacky Martians?

Also, what HH book has the rules on Machinator Arrays? I know what it does, but for the sake of completion, which book actually contains the rules for this kit?

When book 3 came out, they came out with the 2 red books (General Legion Units + Legion Specific Summary) for Books 1-3, along with an LE Slip case for all of them! I :heart: slipcases!

Anyway, I'm am hopeful that after book 6 we'll get Legion Specific Summary for books 4-6 and Mechanicum Combined Book.

And a slip case!

I :heart: Slipcases!

I'll be very upset if we don't get UM as the next book because I want the slipcase for UM to be books 5 & 6, not 5 & 7 (or something) with book 5 sitting by itself out of order.

We might not see the mechanicum red book until Mars, but I'm sick of carrying round two or three of the big books so I hope its sooner.

Only thing I'll say about the GW & FW site is on the navigation filters, very poor that they hide once you select one of them. Many times I want to select multiple sections not look at one, kind of defeats the entire purpose of the site structure, might as well have stuck with "folders".

 Looky Likey wrote:

Only thing I'll say about the GW & FW site is on the navigation filters, very poor that they hide once you select one of them. Many times I want to select multiple sections not look at one, kind of defeats the entire purpose of the site structure, might as well have stuck with "folders".

Weird, I can select as many as I want to.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Looky Likey wrote:

Only thing I'll say about the GW & FW site is on the navigation filters, very poor that they hide once you select one of them. Many times I want to select multiple sections not look at one, kind of defeats the entire purpose of the site structure, might as well have stuck with "folders".

Weird, I can select as many as I want to.

In the same section? For example, if I click new releases, pre orders disappear. If I'm very very quick with the mouse I can select both before it hides them. It only seems to apply to that top filter now I've tested it, I can select multiple legions for example.

 Looky Likey wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Looky Likey wrote:

Only thing I'll say about the GW & FW site is on the navigation filters, very poor that they hide once you select one of them. Many times I want to select multiple sections not look at one, kind of defeats the entire purpose of the site structure, might as well have stuck with "folders".

Weird, I can select as many as I want to.

In the same section? For example, if I click new releases, pre orders disappear. If I'm very very quick with the mouse I can select both before it hides them. It only seems to apply to that top filter now I've tested it, I can select multiple legions for example.

Huh you're right, but it only does it for the What's New section, the others work fine.

 Looky Likey wrote:
I'll be very upset if we don't get UM as the next book because I want the slipcase for UM to be books 5 & 6, not 5 & 7 (or something) with book 5 sitting by itself out of order.

We might not see the mechanicum red book until Mars, but I'm sick of carrying round two or three of the big books so I hope its sooner.

Only thing I'll say about the GW & FW site is on the navigation filters, very poor that they hide once you select one of them. Many times I want to select multiple sections not look at one, kind of defeats the entire purpose of the site structure, might as well have stuck with "folders".

Screw that. Mix it up a bit

That new website cost £1M? They want to be asking for their money back, its fething awful and that's on my tablet...I thought it was designed with mobile technology in mind?

And they stealth increased a lot of the prices as well.

To China!

exsanguis wrote:
And they stealth increased a lot of the prices as well.

To China!

Before buying counterfeits you could always just buy used.

Just as a f'rinstance.

There are currently 3 results if you search 'Sicaran' on eBay UK.

Only one of which is new and unassembled. With almost 3 days to run. Including postage, it is already up to £67, a brand new one is £74+ P&P.

Buying FW that isn't horribly miscast or has been butchered second hand is not any real saving.

On the other hand, my Sicaran cost a little over £30.

This isn't the thread to discuss the rights and wrongs of recasts, but they're invariably just as cheap in comparison to second hand.

That Reddit AMA was shameful.

There were so many hostile posters who managed to embody every horrible 40k player and geek stereotype in a few garbled sentences.

I feel bad for that FW designer.

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
That Reddit AMA was shameful.

There were so many hostile posters who managed to embody every horrible 40k player and geek stereotype in a few garbled sentences.

I feel bad for that FW designer.

It's honestly embarrassing. It's okay to criticize, especially if it's constructive, but I honestly do not understand what prompts people to act in such a hostile and entitled way to people they don't know or understand. Some people just seem to have no self control; as soon as you hide a person behind the internet, they become nothing more than a faceless storm trooper to some people...

So the company kirbys wife works for got the contracts for the new websites, isn't that a bit dodgey? Especially since the general view is GW paid way too much for their new websites (and how crappy alot of people think they are)

nudibranch wrote:

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
That Reddit AMA was shameful.

There were so many hostile posters who managed to embody every horrible 40k player and geek stereotype in a few garbled sentences.

I feel bad for that FW designer.

It's honestly embarrassing. It's okay to criticize, especially if it's constructive, but I honestly do not understand what prompts people to act in such a hostile and entitled way to people they don't know or understand. Some people just seem to have no self control; as soon as you hide a person behind the internet, they become nothing more than a faceless storm trooper to some people...

I'm just embarrassed by the questions being asked:

"Hi, I'm one of the graphic designers on the new FW Site"

*Flood of questions about rules and models and prices in no way related to a Graphic Designer's role*

I'd put money on that being a big part of why GW has retreated from all forms of social media and forums. The signal to noise ratio is just too low to be useful.

 Looky Likey wrote:
I'd put money on that being a big part of why GW has retreated from all forms of social media and forums. The signal to noise ratio is just too low to be useful.

Meanwhile, everyone else is embracing new media and not trying to pretend it's the mid 90's.

New stuff:



http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Lord-Commander-Eidolon-of-the-Emperor-s-Children



http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Techmarine-in%20Mk-III-Armour



http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Techmarine-in-Mk-IV-Armour



http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Imperial-Fists-Mk-VI-Shoulder-Pads


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And Eidolon comes with an optional helmet as well!

 Looky Likey wrote:
I'd put money on that being a big part of why GW has retreated from all forms of social media and forums. The signal to noise ratio is just too low to be useful.

Yes. Even though this was unofficial, it gives GW something to point to as a reason to keep off social media.

Charax wrote:

nudibranch wrote:

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
That Reddit AMA was shameful.

There were so many hostile posters who managed to embody every horrible 40k player and geek stereotype in a few garbled sentences.

I feel bad for that FW designer.

It's honestly embarrassing. It's okay to criticize, especially if it's constructive, but I honestly do not understand what prompts people to act in such a hostile and entitled way to people they don't know or understand. Some people just seem to have no self control; as soon as you hide a person behind the internet, they become nothing more than a faceless storm trooper to some people...

I'm just embarrassed by the questions being asked:

"Hi, I'm one of the graphic designers on the new FW Site"

*Flood of questions about rules and models and prices in no way related to a Graphic Designer's role*

Particularly when she was a photographer, no longer with Games Workshop , had nothing to do with rules, and was just on Reddit just coz, without being paid to do so, or acting in an official capacity or anything else. As with many Reddit AMA's I simply subconsciously skip all the stupid questions. She actually answered a lot of the pointless ones very politely though. At least nobody asked her when there would be a plastic Thunderhawk kit. Or Sisters.

There were some cool, interesting tidbits about GW and FW. And she has some mad painting skills. And she likes tea!

Techmarines are awesome.

Eidolon looks amazing.

Porting over from ze previous page.

 BrookM wrote:
New stuff:



http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Lord-Commander-Eidolon-of-the-Emperor-s-Children



http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Techmarine-in%20Mk-III-Armour



http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Techmarine-in-Mk-IV-Armour



http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Imperial-Fists-Mk-VI-Shoulder-Pads


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And Eidolon comes with an optional helmet as well!

Eidolon is fabulous even if his base is a little silly. I'm in two minds with the techmarines, FW were showing a techmarine with servitors previously, I'd hate to buy one of these then another with servitors make an appearance as there is only so many techmarines that I need.

The Techmarines look pretty sweet. Will we be seeing one with a Servo Harness or is this not around in 30k?

Eidolon with helmet looks cool, the bare head looks silly imo.

These models are probably meant as part of a Techmarine Covenant or as a Forge Lord, whom can take servo automata as an optional thing, unlike their Auxilia and Mechanicum counterparts, who must take four.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hanskrampf wrote:
The Techmarines look pretty sweet. Will we be seeing one with a Servo Harness or is this not around in 30k?

The 30k equivalent is called the Machinator Array and it is sadly a Mechanicum only upgrade at this point. Techmarines can only get the servo-arm.

I'm in love.

I adore that Eidolon model.

Not keen on the Techmarines, and they're pricey too - I can get two Apothecaries for £1 cheaper than one Techmarine costs.

 ImAGeek wrote:
Not keen on the Techmarines, and they're pricey too - I can get two Apothecaries for £1 cheaper than one Techmarine costs.

I love them, but I'm not getting them at that price :-(

Also back on sale soon:



http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Tamurkhan-the-Maggot-Lord

 ImAGeek wrote:
I adore that Eidolon model.

Not keen on the Techmarines, and they're pricey too - I can get two Apothecaries for £1 cheaper than one Techmarine costs.

Yeah, after the mail order exclusive, Suzerain and Blade-slaves I suspected that a price shift was going on and £22 Techmarines pretty much confirms that for me (I also think some of the older 40k SM character models have had price adjustments with the relaunch, but I'll have to compare to a catalogue).

Bumping the cost with massive resin bases I can make myself just irritates me too, look at the cost of Abaddon & Loken versus Eidolon, or even Eidolon versus older character releases, and also the two most recent Primarchs.

Thanks Forge World, I won't let the door hit me on the way out.

I love the stylised bell on Eidolon's thunder hammer. Very cool.

Eidolon looks glorious!! Helmet looks awesome and the head/hair really gives a feeling of pomp & arrogance! Love it!

It's great to see Toad Dragon will be returning. I've thought about buying him before, I'm glad to get a second chance.

Eidolon looks great but I'm not sure if the hair works for me, good to see he has a helmet option. He'll fit in nicely into my E.C force.

The exclusive Centurion is the worst sculpt that Forge World have ever made, or at least I can't think of a worse one at this moment in time. It's like the sculptor rebelled after being told to sculpt a Space Marine with more "heroic scale" proportions.

I suspect that many of the exclusive/limited things may well be test pieces done by new workers,

or other things determined to be not quite good enough or without sufficient broad appeal for a full release

so rather than just sticking them in a cupboard they get a short glorious life as a limited release

In addition to the website being incredibly annoying and far more time consuming to navigate now, they seem to have snuck a price rise onto an awful lot of products (I'll admit I've mainly looked at the Space Marine lines to establish this).

That Legion Praetor excites me not one bit. I wasn't a particularly big fan of the original sculpt it's based on that people seemed to love so much and the alterations have done nothing to revise that opinion.

Eidolon looks pretty cool, as blingy as one would expect of an Emperor's Children character,but that base is ridiculous and he definitely needs to wear his helmet.

Techmarines get a giant meh from me. The axes are both dreadful, I know they're consistent with the 30k Iron Hands designs so far, but I hated those too. Loincloths made of armour are always a loser for me too. Quite like the Mk. III's armour, but feel the model as a whole is somewhat lacking. The helmet on the Mk. IV is horrible, really hate it. Backpack feels kind of insubstantial for even a lone servo arm and what is with the random cables hanging out the back? So many! It looks like someone went a bit nuts with one of those greenstuff cable maker tools. The ones that have sockets/connecters on the end I don't mind, but most of them have no such attachment and so look completely pointless in addition to being aesthetically unappealing. Then you look at the individual prices... I see nothing to warrant that level of expenditure and really hope that this isn't a sign of FW being brought more in line with GW proper. I say that knowing FW has always been pricier (though often not by much in recent times), but very rarely did it feel like poor value.

Swing and a miss FW, which is a shame after the quad-mortar and it's awesome MK. IV crew (those targetter helms!!) knocked it right out of the park last week.

MK. VI pads are cool and it would be nice to see this done for everyone eventually.

I NEED that Mk IV techmarine. He looks great! Too bad he has a Servo arm not a Servo harness.

Servo harnesses weren't around back then.

 BrookM wrote:
Servo harnesses weren't around back then.

Shouldn't be too hard to rig one together using that model as a base though. The vents on the side look like they could be used as mounting points for the other arms.

Edit: First White Scars, now EC get bitchin' helmets. Why can't other legions try to be this awesome? Stupid Imperial Fists and their being boy scouts.

I think I'm going to keep the head detachable on Eidolon.

Ha!

Didn't that actually happen to poor ol' Eidolon in one of the HH books?

I want 10 of that Techmarine for my Techtical Squad.

Very nice model.

I take it back. I kinda like the new site now. Browsing around it I discovered a whole bunch of stuff that I forgot even existed like the outrider bikes and the legion basilisk.

Not very impressed with the techmarines though. While some bits of them look nice, the shoulder pads, legs, and helmet look very lazily sculpted. I think it is the fact that they are big blocky sections with recessed details that would be simple for any relatively skilled sculptor to achieve. What I liked about FW was looking at their models and thinking how did they sculpt that?

The price creep is also scaring me. By the time we get to Prospero I get the feeling I will have to stick to (the excellent) third party parts for my Thousand Sons as I will have been priced out!

Really conflicted about Eidolon.

Loved the initial images from the weekender, but now I'm not so sure.

Firstly, he looks very much like he's glued on top of the base, rather than stood on it.

Secondly, I've no issue with static poses, in many cases I think they're much more evocative than models screaming and swinging their weapon, but this feels wooden. Compare it to something like Curze, who is in a static pose, but looks like he's only just taken a breath before launching himself back into the fray. Eidolon just kinda looks like he's stood there.

Thirdly, the base is ridiculous, and it doesn't have a component shot to figure out what can be done about it.

The 360 shot (a nice improvement with the new site) shows what looks like a normal MKIV jump pack, not a huge deal, but one would have thought there would be some sort of decoration on a guy as important as Eidolon.

That said, the face/head is one of the best in a while (especially in light of the web only model, who looks like he's had a stroke) and there's lots of awesome little details.

I would like the studio to stop highlighting gold so heavily with silver though, really not a fan of that look.

Eidolons face/head is absolutely terrific as is the cloak.
I kinda agree on the base though. However I wonder if its because he himself is painted so cleanly and the base is heavily weathered and ruined. Could the striking contrast be throwing us off?

The techmarine is a bit meh for me, dont like the body armor piece on him.

 Ratius wrote:
Eidolons face/head is absolutely terrific as is the cloak.
I kinda agree on the base though. However I wonder if its because he himself is painted so cleanly and the base is heavily weathered and ruined. Could the striking contrast be throwing us off?

The techmarine is a bit meh for me, dont like the body armor piece on him.

Which one? The Mk IV or Mk III ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azreal13 wrote:


I would like the studio to stop highlighting gold so heavily with silver though, really not a fan of that look.

The silver highlights work better when drybrushed on IMO. Not really a fan of the edge highlight look for metallics.

Which one? The Mk IV or Mk III ?

Both Im afraid :(
Dont like the vent port thing on the mark 3 and the mark 4 looks like a tank track stuck on.

 BrookM wrote:
Servo harnesses weren't around back then.

I refuse to believe that lol. Isn't tech supposed to be better in Great Crusade/Horus Heresy era?

Helmet Eidolon is best Eidolon.

Female Space Marines confirmed!



The FW newsletter I got described Eidolon as perfection and I'd be lying if I didn't ever describe the Game of Thrones actress with that word in the past. I find myself having strange and unfamiliar feelings towards this new astartes. I blame Slaneesh!

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Servo harnesses weren't around back then.

I refuse to believe that lol. Isn't tech supposed to be better in Great Crusade/Horus Heresy era?

There is something called the Machinator Array, which is like the servo-harness, only available to the Mechanicum and not Astartes or Auxilia.

Question for those who have read Angel Exterminatus (spoiler alert!)

can the Eidolon model represent his particular look for the campaign in the eye of terror. I'm building a IW army with a small EC allies and would love to use his awesome model


thanks

Looking at the Techmarines, I think they accidentally put a 2 in front instead of a 1. I get that FW are a premium product but $44 CDN for a single, infantry sized model? As was pointed out, the Apothecary set is more realistically priced. I was hoping the Techmarines would be in line with that. Sigh....

So is the Sanguinary Guard style jump pack now the official jump pack of the HH?

 warboss wrote:
So is the Sanguinary Guard style jump pack now the official jump pack of the HH?

No...? It's the MkIV jump pack, there is a different version for MkII and MkIII.

 -Shrike- wrote:

 warboss wrote:
So is the Sanguinary Guard style jump pack now the official jump pack of the HH?

No...? It's the MkIV jump pack, there is a different version for MkII and MkIII.

Not for MkIII - it's too heavy to use a jump pack with. (But yes, that's a MkIV jump pack)

beast_gts wrote:

 -Shrike- wrote:

 warboss wrote:
So is the Sanguinary Guard style jump pack now the official jump pack of the HH?

No...? It's the MkIV jump pack, there is a different version for MkII and MkIII.

Not for MkIII - it's too heavy to use a jump pack with. (But yes, that's a MkIV jump pack)

I never noticed that before. Good catch.

Nocturnus wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 -Shrike- wrote:

 warboss wrote:
So is the Sanguinary Guard style jump pack now the official jump pack of the HH?

No...? It's the MkIV jump pack, there is a different version for MkII and MkIII.

Not for MkIII - it's too heavy to use a jump pack with. (But yes, that's a MkIV jump pack)

Here you go:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-CA/Legion-MKII-Assault-Squad

Oops. My bad, they have different versions for MkII and MkV, as well as MkIV. Here's the MkII squad:

And the MkV version:

It's so sad that they didn't made the old Raptor jumppacks for mk 5 for example. Imho they were the best looking ones and now we have two almost identical.

Eidolon is a fantastic model and represents him very well. My only gripe is the long flowing hair (or topknot on the helmet) right in front of the intake for the jump pack. Seems like a really bad idea to me.

Edit: Looking at it more, the cape and jump pack is also a bad idea.

 Alpharius wrote:
Ha!

Didn't that actually happen to poor ol' Eidolon in one of the HH books?

Yes. He's only useable for a short duration after Isstvan.

shade1313 wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Ha!

Didn't that actually happen to poor ol' Eidolon in one of the HH books?

Yes. He's only useable for a short duration after Isstvan.

He is alive, I use that term loosely lol

 Formosa wrote:

shade1313 wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Ha!

Didn't that actually happen to poor ol' Eidolon in one of the HH books?

Yes. He's only useable for a short duration after Isstvan.

He is alive, I use that term loosely lol

I really need to catch up on my reading.

Bits were parted, but that never stopped good old Fabius from pulling off stellar work.

 BrookM wrote:
Bits were parted, but that never stopped good old Fabius from pulling off stellar work.

and again i want to ask...what does Eidolon do exactly in Angels Exterminatus, how does he react, what's his demeanor ? I wish I could use his model for a post isstvan army of Iron Warriors and Emperor's Children, but since I only just finished Prospero Burns, I'm not sure he would fit

 RedFox wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Bits were parted, but that never stopped good old Fabius from pulling off stellar work.

and again i want to ask...what does Eidolon do exactly in Angels Exterminatus, how does he react, what's his demeanor ? I wish I could use his model for a post isstvan army of Iron Warriors and Emperor's Children, but since I only just finished Prospero Burns, I'm not sure he would fit

From what I remember, the incident itself happened in the short story Reflection Crack'd.

 -Shrike- wrote:

 warboss wrote:
So is the Sanguinary Guard style jump pack now the official jump pack of the HH?

No...? It's the MkIV jump pack, there is a different version for MkII and MkIII.

I am a big fan of the Mk II / V jump packs (the ones with the turbines at the top). I think they look so much cooler than modern day jump packs (Mk6/7 with rectangular vent facing forwward).

I am debating building all my assault marines with upper torso and jump pack from the MkV kit from FW. The only thing really holding me back is that I love the MKV legs in the FW kit, but I hate the poses of 3 of them (at least for assault squad), and I don't think the 5 posed miniatures look good together. At GBP34, I would like to get more than 5 jump packs

I have many old metal jump packs with the turbines, but the problem is, they are not nearly as good as the new resin ones :(

 BrookM wrote:

 RedFox wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Bits were parted, but that never stopped good old Fabius from pulling off stellar work.

and again i want to ask...what does Eidolon do exactly in Angels Exterminatus, how does he react, what's his demeanor ? I wish I could use his model for a post isstvan army of Iron Warriors and Emperor's Children, but since I only just finished Prospero Burns, I'm not sure he would fit

From what I remember, the incident itself happened in the short story Reflection Crack'd.

oh I see...I wish they would release some of their paperback only books in HC of bigger format...I hate reading small & cheap paperback

anyway, maybe you or anyone else that read Angels Exterminatus can still answer my questions

Eidolon is is alright, I am not an ES players so don't care beyond that. His bare head version looks much better than the helmeted on. The helmet looks like a a monkey face from the "Planet of the Apes".

The Techs I am interested in, but first of all, I have a beef with their cables running on the ground. It's kinda dumb since the sockets will get full of dirt and smashed and also it makes them look like the current GW Chaos dinabots that got loose from their owners. The second part is the helmet on the IV techmarime. He looks like a character from a kids cartoon, I can't pinpoint which but the vibe is definitely there. And since I don't like bare heads in general, the head options will have to go on both of them.

 Looky Likey wrote:
I'd put money on that being a big part of why GW has retreated from all forms of social media and forums. The signal to noise ratio is just too low to be useful.

The thing is, that's largely because there are so few opportunities for communication. Everyone piles on whenever they see an opening.

Having an established online presence would no doubt be messy at first, but would in the long term settle down and show customers that they're at least pretending to listen.




On-topic - This techmarines are fantastic. Not as keen on Eidelon, but that's possibly in part just because of the silly base.

A minor point in the grand scheme of things but all of FWs WHFB monsters have their descriptions set in the old world, picked up on mentions off the lost sea, lustria, naggaroth etc.

I mean seriously. If you are going to redo a website from the bottom up and rerelease (in a good way) older models, FFS, at least get your 6 month intern to write some sort of relevant fluff for AoS.

Or are FW going to fly the WHFB flag despite the parent

Sloppy is all I can really say.

Reflection Crack'd was (IMO) an awful pseudo snuff film starring a primarch.

Feel free to ignore it and just run 'ol Eidolon no matter consequences.

That and he "got better" anyway .

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Servo harnesses weren't around back then.

Shouldn't be too hard to rig one together using that model as a base though. The vents on the side look like they could be used as mounting points for the other arms.

Edit: First White Scars, now EC get bitchin' helmets. Why can't other legions try to be this awesome? Stupid Imperial Fists and their being dickish man-children.

Fixed!

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
Reflection Crack'd was (IMO) an awful pseudo snuff film starring a primarch.

Feel free to ignore it and just run 'ol Eidolon no matter consequences.

That and he "got better" anyway .

is Eidolon totally zombie like or does he still act as an astartes, how is he changed concretely ?

 RedFox wrote:

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
Reflection Crack'd was (IMO) an awful pseudo snuff film starring a primarch.

Feel free to ignore it and just run 'ol Eidolon no matter consequences.

That and he "got better" anyway .

is Eidolon totally zombie like or does he still act as an astartes, how is he changed concretely ?

He's a bit weird in that he's still getting used to being back alive so he moves about a bit jerkily at times in AE but he's properly alive again and not like a zombie past that from what I recall.

 Ratius wrote:
A minor point in the grand scheme of things but all of FWs WHFB monsters have their descriptions set in the old world, picked up on mentions off the lost sea, lustria, naggaroth etc.

I mean seriously. If you are going to redo a website from the bottom up and rerelease (in a good way) older models, FFS, at least get your 6 month intern to write some sort of relevant fluff for AoS.

Or are FW going to fly the WHFB flag despite the parent

Sloppy is all I can really say.

I'd love FW to do WFB in the Old World, but that would interfere with their moar mareenz strategy that is unfortunately infinitely more financially sustainable.

 Talys wrote:

 -Shrike- wrote:

 warboss wrote:
So is the Sanguinary Guard style jump pack now the official jump pack of the HH?

No...? It's the MkIV jump pack, there is a different version for MkII and MkIII.

I am a big fan of the Mk II / V jump packs (the ones with the turbines at the top). I think they look so much cooler than modern day jump packs (Mk6/7 with rectangular vent facing forwward).

I am debating building all my assault marines with upper torso and jump pack from the MkV kit from FW. The only thing really holding me back is that I love the MKV legs in the FW kit, but I hate the poses of 3 of them (at least for assault squad), and I don't think the 5 posed miniatures look good together. At GBP34, I would like to get more than 5 jump packs

I have many old metal jump packs with the turbines, but the problem is, they are not nearly as good as the new resin ones :(

Thanks for the reminders and clarifications. Ironically, I have a veteran vanguard squad for my blood angels with the old metal rogue trader turbofan packs and forgot they made a resin version of them for HH.

Since I haven't seen it posted yet... The new FW website DOES have the old downloads.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Downloads

Like the GW site, you have to scroll to the bottom of the home page. It's under "Here to help"

I'd love FW to do WFB in the Old World, but that would interfere with their moar mareenz strategy that is unfortunately infinitely more financially sustainable.

Thats kind of the point though

FW havent updated to Aos from either laziness or incompetency.

If they choose to supprt WHFB (absolutely unlikey as hell imho) then make the Monster section - WHFB Monsters et al.

They have not however.

So its sloppy/lazy or just gak web design. Premium kits + prices? Please - update your darn fluff.

/rant over

 Ratius wrote:

I'd love FW to do WFB in the Old World, but that would interfere with their moar mareenz strategy that is unfortunately infinitely more financially sustainable.

Thats kind of the point though

FW havent updated to Aos from either laziness or incompetency.

If they choose to supprt WHFB (absolutely unlikey as hell imho) then make the Monster section - WHFB Monsters et al.

They have not however.

So its sloppy/lazy or just gak web design. Premium kits + prices? Please - update your darn fluff.

/rant over

Keep in mind End Times: Glottkin was a rehash of FW's master plan for Tamhurkan, which GeeDubs forced them to scrap (allegedly).

It might be hesitance to do anything that might immediately be scrapped and rehashed by the main branch.

Keep in mind End Times: Glottkin was a rehash of FW's master plan for Tamhurkan, which GeeDubs forced them to scrap (allegedly).

It might be hesitance to do anything that might immediately be scrapped and rehashed by the main branch.

Accepted. However, the old world is dead. As in, dead. So why not fluff write-in a few lines for the old monsters.

Dread Saurian - still says he dwells in Lustria etc.

Lustria is not coming back

 Talys wrote:

 -Shrike- wrote:

 warboss wrote:
So is the Sanguinary Guard style jump pack now the official jump pack of the HH?

No...? It's the MkIV jump pack, there is a different version for MkII and MkIII.

I am a big fan of the Mk II / V jump packs (the ones with the turbines at the top). I think they look so much cooler than modern day jump packs (Mk6/7 with rectangular vent facing forwward).

I am debating building all my assault marines with upper torso and jump pack from the MkV kit from FW. The only thing really holding me back is that I love the MKV legs in the FW kit, but I hate the poses of 3 of them (at least for assault squad), and I don't think the 5 posed miniatures look good together. At GBP34, I would like to get more than 5 jump packs

I have many old metal jump packs with the turbines, but the problem is, they are not nearly as good as the new resin ones :(

MaxMini does a bunch of awesome turbine jet packs.

http://maxmini.eu/conversion-bits/torsos-and-arms/Bronze-Pattern-Jump-Packs

http://maxmini.eu/conversion-bits/torsos-and-arms/iron-pattern-jump-pack-bits

 Ratius wrote:

Keep in mind End Times: Glottkin was a rehash of FW's master plan for Tamhurkan, which GeeDubs forced them to scrap (allegedly).

It might be hesitance to do anything that might immediately be scrapped and rehashed by the main branch.

Accepted. However, the old world is dead. As in, dead. So why not fluff write-in a few lines for the old monsters.

Dread Saurian - still says he dwells in Lustria etc.

Lustria is not coming back

I honestly think FW got burned with Warhammer Forge so many times (presumably poor sales, main branch stealing/rejecting their projects etc.) they're only really still doing this because GeeDubs is making them.


It's a shame too. I would have loved a Fimir overhaul that saw the removal of all the really creepy gak that got them buried in the first place. The three models they did make were gorgeous (I'm halfway tempted to use them as Beasts of Nurgle.)

I honestly think FW got burned with Warhammer Forge so many times (presumably poor sales, main branch stealing/rejecting their projects etc.) they're only really still doing this because GeeDubs is making them.

I kinda want to believe that. But I recall in another old thread, someone saying FW is based in the same building as GW, same ideas, same culture.

Now, I argued otherwise becauses I work in a Company that has 5 distinct BU's. And yes they talk and yes there is an overrall "theme" but each is so so so different.

Im not so sure anymore about FW - anyway - the website still reeks of laziness. For us Euro peeps, you cant even convert each kit......

 Ratius wrote:

I honestly think FW got burned with Warhammer Forge so many times (presumably poor sales, main branch stealing/rejecting their projects etc.) they're only really still doing this because GeeDubs is making them.

I kinda want to believe that. But I recall in another old thread, someone saying FW is based in the same building as GW, same ideas, same culture.

Now, I argued otherwise becauses I work in a Company that has 5 distinct BU's. And yes they talk and yes there is an overrall "theme" but each is so so so different.

Im not so sure anymore about FW - anyway - the website still reeks of laziness. For us Euro peeps, you cant even convert each kit......

It's clearly not the same culture. Maybe the same mission but not the same culture. They sell very different products with a drastically different mentality compared to GeeDubs main. This website is lazy but honestly I don't think I've seen a website redesign that wasn't.

It's clearly not the same culture. Maybe the same mission but not the same culture. They sell very different products with a drastically different mentality compared to GeeDubs main. This website is lazy but honestly I don't think I've seen a website redesign that wasn't.

Agreed. But for an "EU" citizen - the exchange rate + shippping + basic cost should give us a bit more....

Anyway, Im off to bed!
Nice debate though

Oh fiddle dee dee. I was going to actually buy a Dread Saurion this weekend, in person, so I didn't order online.
But after seeing them put the price up by £12 (10%!) midweek, no. I was just peeking over the fence to begin with, but I can live without now. Cheeky fethers.
Magma dragon it is.

Have they ever brought back a large model like that toad dragon before? makes me wonder (and worry) what else may come back.

MacMuckles wrote:

 Talys wrote:

 -Shrike- wrote:

 warboss wrote:
So is the Sanguinary Guard style jump pack now the official jump pack of the HH?

No...? It's the MkIV jump pack, there is a different version for MkII and MkIII.

I am a big fan of the Mk II / V jump packs (the ones with the turbines at the top). I think they look so much cooler than modern day jump packs (Mk6/7 with rectangular vent facing forwward).

I am debating building all my assault marines with upper torso and jump pack from the MkV kit from FW. The only thing really holding me back is that I love the MKV legs in the FW kit, but I hate the poses of 3 of them (at least for assault squad), and I don't think the 5 posed miniatures look good together. At GBP34, I would like to get more than 5 jump packs

I have many old metal jump packs with the turbines, but the problem is, they are not nearly as good as the new resin ones :(

MaxMini does a bunch of awesome turbine jet packs.

http://maxmini.eu/conversion-bits/torsos-and-arms/Bronze-Pattern-Jump-Packs

http://maxmini.eu/conversion-bits/torsos-and-arms/iron-pattern-jump-pack-bits

Yeah, I have seen those. However, at 7 Euro each (plus shipping to Canada? Not sure) I might as well buy FW assault marines at 7GBP. And use or not use the other parts :(

It's €7 for a pack of 5.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
GW has conditioned your price sensitivity admirably.

I might be misreading you, Talys, but those are packs of five jump packs for the price.

Yes, they are 5 for seven euros

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
makes me wonder (and worry) what else may come back.

I personally want some of the 40K scenery back, like Imperial bunker entrances. They looked so awesome but I was in school when FW was selling them and couldn't afford them.
Anphelion Base would be good too.

 Azreal13 wrote:
It's €7 for a pack of 5.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
GW has conditioned your price sensitivity admirably.

That was my first thought. You're too used to GW prices Talys! Most things are much more reasonable.

For amazing third party jump packs, I'd take a look at http://bitsofwar.com/home/365-legionary-jump-pack.html

 Azreal13 wrote:
It's €7 for a pack of 5.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
GW has conditioned your price sensitivity admirably.

Ahhh thank you! I did not realize this!

 Bronzefists42 wrote:

It's a shame too. I would have loved a Fimir overhaul that saw the removal of all the really creepy gak that got them buried in the first place. The three models they did make were gorgeous (I'm halfway tempted to use them as Beasts of Nurgle.)

Really? Honestly at this point I'd prefer GW just left their old material alone, I don't trust them with it. I mean sure, it's possible to abstract the, as you say, "creepy" aspect of their reproduction, to make it a dark blood ritual that steals & corrupts a "pure" soul in order to overcome the infertility of the Meargh or somesuch instead of the original "yeah they rape wee girls" thing, but given they seem determined to write the background in a very Little Timmy's Christian Mum-friendly way these days I doubt they'd be permitted to retain even that much of an edge to them.

At this stage, there are only two ways Realhammer is going to come back; first AoS has to be a total disaster, and we don't yet know that it is, and then either A; GW will realise their mistake(ahaha) and do a Heresy-style "test the waters" through FW before pulling a full-on "New Coke", or B; GW will be bought out by someone else and, assuming they want to continue in the same business rather than just plunder the IP for media products, they'll seek to reinforce their "under new management" status by bringing back Realhammer "for the fans". Neither is particularly likely, so honestly I hope they take AoS in such a radically different direction that it bears no resemblance at all to Realhammer after a couple of years, that way third-parties can dive into all the "abandonware" aspects of the Fantasy IP with less worry that GW will try to sue them out of existence, and we might start seeing new high-quality models for Realhammer and Oldhammer factions.

That helmet is bad ass! I wish they were a little less expensive though...

Not the most exciting revelation, but FW have now moved to circular bases for their WHFB monsters.

I now have a ridiculously huge circular base for my Magma Dragon. It's side plate sized.

"Look! Circular base!"
"My god, why did you do this to me?"
"These are new, you can't buy them elsewhere yet."
"I'm not sure how I feel."

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
Not the most exciting revelation, but FW have now moved to circular bases for their WHFB monsters.

They hired that photographer on contract for a year to take all new photos, remember? I guess, if you're gonna shoot new pics, you might as well rebase 'em

New FW Bulletin feat. Raven Guard

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/blog/blog.jsp?_requestid=9002537

The NEW one is here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/660641.page#8061907